December 6, 2024 • 57 mins
In this episode of Yellow Glitter podcast, we're joined by Kekoa. Kekoa is a unique drag artist hailing from the islands of Indonesia. She is known for her powerful performances and unique perspective as a queer Asian creative. Growing up with a mixed heritage in a predominantly conservative environment - Transforming through early challenges and military school - The role of drag as a vehicle for self-expression and living with intentionality - Redefining what it means to be an Asian drag performer - Focusing on collaboration, community, and inspiring others
In this episode, we chat about:
- Growing up with a mixed heritage in a predominantly conservative environment
- Transforming through early challenges and military school
- The role of drag as a vehicle for self-expression and living with intentionality
- Redefining what it means to be an Asian drag performer
- Focusing on collaboration, community, and inspiring others
You can find our guest at:
You can follow me at:
- Instagram: @stevenwakabayashi
- YouTube: @stevenwakabayashi
- Subscribe to my weekly newsletter: yellowglitterpodcast.substack.com
- Visit our website yellowglitterpodcast.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
If I knew as an eight year old, nine year old, that an Indonesian drag queen, half Asian, who grew up like me, was somehow going to come to New York City and be a beautiful cross-dresser dancing around a stage. What? You don't think of that? When I think about my queerness, I don't think of just someone in Jakarta watching me on their phone. I think of probably the 10 year old kid who's back in the middle of Djawadi Timor and he has to hide that he's queer because he doesn't know. And so his whole thing, he's going to marry somebodyand realize that he has a whole life ahead. Or the young girl who is hiding from her dad that she likes girls. And I know that. What I can do and be showcased visibility internationally to the point where I can end up on local media in Indonesia and someone sees that someone like me can exist, could do something and for them to inspire in their own local communities. It's not about just going to spaces and being a thinker, but how about going into spaces that you don't realize that you need someone like me to exist. Steven Wakabayashi:
(01:00):
Hi everyone, my name is Steven Wakabayashi and you're listening to Yellow Glitter, perspectives from queer asian creatives and changemakers making an impact. This episode we're joined by an extra special guest, Kekoa. Kekoa is a unique drag artist hailing from a faraway place that she'll tell you all about in our episode. This performer hails from the islands ofIndonesia. and is known for their powerful performance style and ability to use both hands at the same time with a wide variety of accolades and awards which do not translate into American English because in her words, it's still the wrong English. Here to bring a new sensation to the drag experience and remind you of the importance of knowing the second verse, it's Kekoa.
Welcome! Kekoa (02:00):
Hi! What's up, everybody? It's the person who knows the second verse. Steven Wakabayashi
sing the song. And you know what? I probably did. Steven Wakabayashi (03:00):
You, you've got to entertain. And Kekoa
wait, always a bird person? You like birds? How many birds do you have? Kekoa (04:00):
Now, listen, yeah, I haven't really been into ornithology. When I was a kid, I was really into the study of ornithology and birds. So like, I'm actually really into birds. Steven Wakabayashi
from Indonesia, growing up there, before you got into drag, what was it like? Kekoa (05:00):
So, I remember when I first came through the birth canal, it was, I saw a light and I was just like, I'm almost there, I'm almost there. And then I popped out and I saw it and I was like, Oh shit, I'm covered in blood, that's crazy. And hence then, train of thought happened. Um, so I was born to a lovely couple by the name of Daniel and Deborah Iskandar. They are currently still living in Jakarta. I was born and raised in Jakarta, Indonesia. I know, wild, but I was. My mother is American. My father is Chinese Indonesian. And my mother is Baptist. My dad is Catholic. I grew up going to public school in a Muslim country as a queer, artsy kid. And I want to emphasize, I wasn't just a faggot. I was an artsy faggot, which means I had double the no friends. Steven Wakabayashi
Like, growing up with parents who were very religious, it seems like, right? Like, and especially in a Muslim country, but they weren't Muslim themselves. Like, yeah, what was that like? Kekoa (06:00):
I guess the best way to describe it is, It taught me a lot of different things. It taught me different perspectives. It taught me how to handle things, and it also , maybe as sad as it is, taught me how to be an adult from a very early on age and just be like, I'm kind of gonna be on my own and I'm gonna be on my own for a while. Not everybody's gonna understand me. Not everybody's gonna understand my journey, who I am. And it's also not for them to understand at this point, because everyone's a human being. Try to go through their own thing. That's okay. But definitely growing up, it definitely taught me a lot. I think as a kid, you know, you don't understand. I didn't understand especially like, I guess like why I was not accepted for the longest time. And then I quickly learned early on that it was never about me necessarily. It was just
(07:00):
everybody else kind of grew up with what's around them, and they just aren't comfortable with things that aren't , they don't understand. And so, luckily enough, as a kid, I was like, okay, I knew I was gonna be art, I knew I was gay, I knew I was gonna have different experiences, and I especially knew that, like, I knew that my childhood experience was not gonna be something that I would hold on to. If that makes sense. I learned that like as a kid that just like, this is only temporary, as soon asI become an adult or turn legally 18, that's when I can become who I am. So growing up to that point, it was probably just a lot of just like survival and biding time to build up to where I am today. Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you're a very mature kid growing up. And I'm just curious, to even get to that point, was there any Formulative, like, like you were in the arts or just was there anything that you consumed growing up that helped you better understand that. I mean, even for
myself, like I, and I remember as a childhood that I knew there was a world beyond me or that, you know, seeing people and this violence and this hatred sometimes they would spew out was little to do with me. Actually, it's like not even until like after high school and then I figured it out. I'm just curious, like growing up, like, like what gave you such a level head? Kekoa (08:00):
Because I knew it would be temporary. I learned early on in life, very early on in life, that Nothing is ever gonna be permanent in your life. Nothing is ever gonna be It may sound sad, nothing is ever gonna impact you the way it does. I think I've also learned that just not to give meaning to things that don't really just need a meaning to them. You know, I sat detached in a way. It was a survival method, but it taught me to just like take a step back and be like, this is not about me or does not even, but what I, the only thing I can control is how I react. That is the only thing I can ever control. So I just had to learn the
(09:00):
only way I could move on is how I react to things, how I absorb things and how I was going to move forward with my life and whether I was going to let my experiences define me or not. And I decided. Growing up and after the experiences that I've had and seeing people play victims to those experiences, I said to myself, I was never going to be that. I was never going to be someone who played victim. I was never going to be someone who pitied myself. And I was never going to be someone who get, I mean, when you have the opportunity to thinkthat just like you would define me. Steven Wakabayashi: Wow. So growing up and identity, finding your queer identity, when did that happen? Was it something? There was like an experience in particular, something you felt? Kekoa: I knew I was gay. I knew I was gay since I was a kid. Oh my God. I remember, okay, the first actual moment where I was like, I knew I liked boys, Ricky Martin came on Channel V, which was a music video TV channel at the time. Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kekoa: Livin La Vida Loca. And it was like the
music video with him, like the gold and the black shirt. Inside, inside out. Livin La Vida Loca. And I was like, I want to kiss him. I was a kid and I knew that I was a kid and I knew that I was six and seven Steven Wakabayashi (10:00):
You were bothered you're hot and bothered. Kekoa
actually like got his shit together. He's not like a total crazy like celebrity. Which I'm like, Steven Wakabayashi (11:00):
yeah. Well, he left the limelight for a bit. Yeah. And he kind of figured out stuff, right? Whereas some celebrities just literally like, You see them falling apart on camera. Kekoa
navigate that is questionable. Steven Wakabayashi (12:00):
It's a lot. I mean, I have friends with kids. Kekoa
paying for your tuition. Steven Wakabayashi (13:00):
You heard it here folks. We're not paying for that tuition. And that tuition is expensive now. That tuition, college is so expensive now. Right? So just going back to the childhood and growing up and some notes that I have, you went to military school, right? So you were artsy, you were finding your queer identity and you're like, I need to get the F out of here and you end up at military school. What was that like? Kekoa
teacher and then I was. disinvited for the next year because they didn't want to make a scene that a teacher and a student were actually having a fistfight. Steven Wakabayashi (14:00):
Wow. And so you ended up going to military school. And I mean, what was that like? Was it, was it meant to set some discipline in you? Kekoa
went to military school in Georgia in the South. So, and I went to a Naval school, like Army. It was Navy. So it was a lot more structured. It was much more of this like, it was like the army and the media are very different. Navy is the reason where like the Commodore were just like, if you don't hold still. Steven Wakabayashi (15:00):
Yeah. And was this your first introduction into what you saw as America and American culture? Assimilation. Kekoa
(16:00):
back, right. You were going through this life, finding this identity that, especially in a Muslim country with Christian parents. I can't imagine the pressures that you were under and feeling kind of it's like an out of body experience but still living in this body and being told what to do. I'm just curious like looking back have you taken a step back through your childhood in your memory and like like talked yourself through it even youknow because even like I just have so much empathy for that younger self and to me of course you're going to be disobedient. Like, this is your way of, right, fighting against all this pressures and things coming out, but I'm just curious. Kekoa: I don't think I necessarily empathize with my younger self. I look at my younger self and I'm kind of what my experience is and I look back at it and I'm just like, That shit was crazy. Wish it on
(17:00):
anybody, anyone. I would not know how to explain my current life or how I got to there to my younger self, other than that. No one's gonna get it. And my experiences will just teach you, taught me early on. I guess like in the way I answer that question is it's like what would I have to say to my younger self? Or say to my younger self? And the fact of the matter is I don't know how to explain it other than I just had to. It was either survive life or let life take me. I've already been through phases whereI'm like, I'm not going to try to kill myself again. We're not there anymore. You know, that's every queer experience. I feel like we've all had those moments where it's like, and unfortunately some people have experiences where it does end up successful. A lot of times it fails luckily. And then we don't know what to do after that because nothing changes after that. Yeah. And then whole era of like being queer and what is my purpose in life and how do I navigate all this? And then it dawned on me, especially
like, I was like, I was after military school and I had a breakdown where I was like, you know, life has no purpose. Life is not good. Life is just doesn't mean anything other than it is just what it is. You know, and I just have to give my own self purpose and all I can rely on is myself and my own abilities and rely on that. Steven Wakabayashi (18:00):
I mean, it got you where you are, so I'm following your timeline, you do the military school, you finish that out, and then when was it when you came to New York? Was it immediately after? Like, what does that timeline look like? Kekoa
dad, growing up, he didn't like going to events, so me being the eldest son was always sent it. I got to represent the family, so I was a little kid going with my mom everywhere because I had to be little man and be like, yeah, it's so nice your son is here and me being eight year old be like, hello auntie, hello uncle, good to see you. Yes, I know, just keeping my mom company. But second row of that show, I was right behind her, because I can't sit in the front row. Steven Wakabayashi (19:00):
Why was she invited? Or like, was there a connection? Kekoa
in. And that was kind of it. I learned like, what it means when you put your effort and love into something and it doesn't have to be another person. Steven Wakabayashi (20:00):
Mm hmm. And So then you were inspired, you went to school, you graduated. Did you try going into the fashion industry? Kekoa
people that I want associate with my whole life. Steven Wakabayashi (21:00):
Mm. I mean, it's a, it's a tough industry and. But let me ask, uh, so drag as a persona and identity, when did you start dabbling in it? When did that show up? Kekoa
Steven Wakabayashi (22:00):
Yeah. Kekoa
What did you pick? Kekoa (23:00):
Okay, we had a couple lives. The very first name I ever had, 2013, when they first met me was Katya Man. You got the joke already right there. Right? Cool. Steven Wakabayashi
be In, I N. Like, who's she? She's In. Who's that? That's In. The queen. In. You know, chic, fun. Like, I thought it was a fun name. And then my drag mother's. Yeah, you got it now right? Steven Wakabayashi (24:00):
That's so like, you went from basically one spectrum, which was the, I guess, I guess the Paris Hilton of drag side, and then you're going complete, like. Abstract conceptualization, like. But what happened? What did your drag mother say? Kekoa: Your name is prettier, and then also I thought about what my, what is my drag What my goals are with drag. Because if this is an industry or something that I was going to pursue in the long term, I gotta have goals that are the same as anybody else's job, right? You're not just doing a job and being like, La da da da da da da, every single day. You have a goal you want to achieve. I want to make queer rights happen across Asia. Specifically, I want
(25:00):
to make pride happen in Asia. I want to make queer rights and human, like queer, actually like adoption rights, pure rights, and across Asia. That's my goal. People look at me like I'm crazy and I'm like, I know I am crazy. I also put on my hair and makeup and look where it got me. So, I'm like, I know that I can use this to kind of like showcase a different side of Asian ness. And also an Asian queer persona, but especially one with intentionality. Not that's just like, I'm a fun,queer, Asian person. Or like an artist or just pretty. I am intentional, I am strong, I have a view set and a mindset that isn't about being the perfect Asian ambassador. I want to showcase the reality of being in Asia is we're, have a spectrum of things and it's not always this beautiful, heightened version of history and traditions. where modern Asia is kind of comedic and slapstick and Indonesia is a corny ass country. And there's things happening and there's so much history, but
also so many nuances and things in life that I'm like, I want to show more of that, the human side to people. And this is the best way to describe that. Steven Wakabayashi (26:00):
Yeah. And I'm wondering also with your Asian identity and leaving Indonesia, it seems now like this is a big part of your drag and a big motivation to leverage it for other people paving the way with your Asian identity, but was that always the case? Were you always a big proponent of, my Asian background is going to be a part of this drag when you first started? Or has that shifted? Kekoa
(27:00):
even in school. So I wasn't even Kekoa, I was just Bule. They'll call me that. And oftentimes I was shamed for it. I would be made fun of it. I was constantly reminded that I was not Asian enough. So a big part of my journey now is to prove that, like, I think it was to prove. And now it's my understanding of like, I am Asian enough because I have more Asian experiences on my arm. No one can tell me my experiences, but it's what I do. I know what I have to go through in life. I know who I have to talk to. I still haveaunties who make fun of my weight when I go home. If that's not Asian, I don't know what is. I get shamed for eating and I get shamed for not eating enough. Steven Wakabayashi: Never perfect. Kekoa: Never perfect. And of course, the first thing, because my aunties, Oh my God, you gained weight, right? Steven Wakabayashi: How dare you? Kekoa: Hi. Hi. But then within the next five minutes. Come to the kitchen, come eat. It was a lot of that. And now it's, I am an Asian. And now I can showcase a different side of myself.
And people now see that, like, the Asian experience is different. And I want, I want to show that. You don't have to look like me, sound like me, act like me, think like me, but if you look like, if you look at me and think, wow, they're kind of crazy. They're really Asian in their own way. I can do the same thing. Or even if I can motivate you, be like, she's not doing it right. I can do it better. Steven Wakabayashi (28:00):
Yeah. And I'm curious, have you, while you're doing it here in New York City, faced any challenges? In doing drag? Yeah. What's come up for you? Kekoa
(29:00):
picked up some things from her. People have constantly been like, Oh my god, Beijing! Oh my god, Kekoa! And to each other. And we're just like, Oh my god, how many times this week did someone call you me? Or me you? And then there are so many shows where I'm just like, the entire lineup maybe one Asian person. Which you will have so many of the other races involved. You will have them, but only one Asian person. And then there'll be the, Oh, not about that. Yes, it is. It is a hundred percent because then Asian people in America, we arecategorized into tokenism of whiteness, but also we still want to be put at this person-of-color box. Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. But also the Asian diaspora is so big, you know?, Kekoa: But how many times we've Asia is so many, how many countries? You have more countries than probably any other continent. And historically, and physically, in features, traditions and cultures that are so different. You come to America, especially, you're suddenly one of three things. Korean, Chinese, and Filipino now. That's, in America today, that's what it
(30:00):
is. That's just the reality. And when people look at me, they're just like, Oh my, see my name. They're like, Oh my God, your name's Hawaiian. And they look at me like, Oh my God, you're filipino? Because I'm southeast Asian? Because there's no way that I could be Indonesian. And like, then I say I'm Indonesian. And they're like, Oh, wow, cool. Don't know much about it. And I'm like, I know. Because most of them are uneducated, and because most people don't want to learn about the nuances of Asian cultures. Andhopefully with America, in America now, with my shows, with my sisters, we've been able to like showcase a variety of Asian people. Me and my sisters, Felicia Oh and Kanika, we started a show called Red Lantern District because we saw this need of diverse Asian voices. And especially a need in Brooklyn, in more rural, like different areas that show a queer side of Asian people that's not just like with the Bowen Yangs or the Joel Kim Boosters, you know. And like just, we wanted to show a very different side. And
luckily within the past year we've been able to just do that. Steven Wakabayashi (31:00):
Yeah, and I mean, speaking especially of these upcoming projects, I think, one, I absolutely love the way in which you're uplifting different Asian identities. I really don't know any Indonesian drag queens, you know, and I'm just curious, especially when it comes to now looking at your heritage and your culture as a part of uplifting, how does that show up in particular? How has it been showing up? Kekoa
(32:00):
often that these traditional dancers were male. And then when I came back to Jakarta after that, I was doing, I was working with a PR, like, events company. So I was doing a lot of, like, weddings, birthday parties, gigs. I wasn't doing bar scenes. And that's a big, I would say, like, in Indonesia at the time when I was leaving. it was still, a lot of us were either doing events or part of a cabaret. So like in Jogja, there was the Ramiten Cabaret, which is burlesque, but also crossdressing, as he puts it. So a lot of that. But now, since I've left, I just learned that this new drag bar that opened in Jakarta, and I saw this one photo of like, eleven Indonesian queens all in one photo. And I was like, There's eleven of you all in one photo doing a photoshoot? That's crazy. But also, that's amazing. Steven Wakabayashi: That is amazing. Kekoa: In the city like Jakarta, they found a way to have a bunch of drag shows. And it was a set for young performers to just come and
do their art. It's changing. Indonesia is opening up and understanding queer experiences and know what that looks like in today's society. And that's what I'm really happy to see. Like, Indonesia is progressing. It has room. The only Indonesian queen that I had known of, other than the ones I was working with back home, is Raja from RuPaul's Drag Race. She won. Steven Wakabayashi (33:00):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Kekoa
day, it was just, who is the most beautiful? And. I think we just got to a point where we're like Kekoa (34:00):
Beauty fades! Boring. Yes. We like to look at it. But after five minutes, you're done looking at it. You're not like as much like even if you're watching the most beautiful stuff, I am not going to spend five minutes in understanding just staring at something. I'm not one of those people. You better be doing something. Please. Steven Wakabayashi
(35:00):
be funny and witty. That's a read. That's so funny, ha ha. Oh my God, you're so funny. And I think there's also this queerness of self hatred, where we're gonna kind of, and we're like slightly masochistic. And like, when it comes from a drag queen, who was just inherently this figure of queerness doing it back. They're like, Oh my God, this is funny. Ha ha, entertaining. But then like, if you're on the mic, If you were in the audience, watching any entertainer, would you like it if someone came up to you and was just like, You look like that, that's crazy, you're ugly, getout of my face, buy me a drink. Would anybody like that? No. And I know some people think, ha, that's funny, or that's drag. No, it's not. That's you trying to get away and make an excuse. I don't think it's an excuse to be mad, to be mean. I don't think of it as people want to make excuses. Like, this is the way things have always been. Great. That's what we were always done. Cool. Do you like it? Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. Kekoa: And you want to continue it because it's always done? Or that's the way it is? No, because people are afraid to actually say their mind or make
change and ruffle feathers. When the fact of the matter is, you don't evolve unless you let out your outer shell. Understand that you got to be vulnerable and soft for a little bit and harden again. That was a whole lot. Steven Wakabayashi (36:00):
I like the piece that you were saying where it's about this self hatred, but also the self hatred that is a part of society burdening us, right? It's the larger homophobia, anti queerness, and we carry it for a long time, normalizing it. It comes out in this way, we put it out there. You also see it with even just gay men and how they talk to each other and the way body dysmorphia is normalized, right? You're just so disgusting to each other. Kekoa
anybody ever says, anything, seriously. Your actions will always be more than what you say. Words are just words. Steven Wakabayashi (37:00):
I mean, there's so many ways to unpack this, but I'm just curious. Is there, is there something that has helped you? Cause I do think a lot of us in the queer space, This is what is bestowed upon us, right? But is there something that worked for you to basically snap out of it and start thinking of ways that was more intentional? And like, I think a lot of the, what you're saying, I mean, it seems like you matured really young, really quickly, but even the way that you're starting to, it's like sassy, but intentional. And I'm just curious, is there something that like really was helpful? And you kind of becoming more aware, becoming more intentional, becoming more open minded about some of these things. Kekoa
(38:00):
this goes back to a question I got, like, who I want to be. And was there anybody around me who was doing their life that I could look up to? There isn't. I've never been someone that's like, they're my idol. They're my icon. I follow them heartedly. I've never been someone where it's just like, that person inspired me so much. Cause truth is, I've learned that no one's ever gonna inspire me the same way I will because the things that I want just aren't around. I could either waitaround for someone to do those things and then follow suit, or I could just do it regardless of if I know what I'm doing but its starting something. I guess like I stepped out of it because I realized that no one else was gonna be able to make the changes that I wanted to be seen done. And no one else was gonna do the things that I wanted to be done. Like, I don't like pushing meanness. I don't like seeing it on TV. I just, I don't watch a whole lot of like The Traitors shows or
(39:00):
these House of Villains shows. Cause I don't like that kind of personality around me. And I know people like, oh, it's fun. It's funny. Great. I'm glad you enjoy it. It's just not something I want to choose to act or surround myself with or absorb into my life. That's it. And I just knew because, because of growing up and being told that this was the norm and being often being forced that, that I have to normalize this in my life. Yeah. That because this, I am somehow unaware because I don't absorb these things.No, I think I just don't absorb things because I'm aware of what they are. And so that was it. It was just like, I just always had to know that who I wanted to be and the intentions that I want have to come from me. I can only be done by me. Steven Wakabayashi: I mean, your reputation precedes itself. We were connected through Ty, who was also on the podcast, and a dear friend. Kekoa: My baby! Steven Wakabayashi: Ty was like, Kekoa is one of the nicest people. I was like, let me see about that. And I was like, oh my
god, Ty! Kekoa is so nice! Kekoa (40:00):
I think it's more than nice, I'm polite. Like, I'm just, I know how to communicate with people because I'm intentional and I know what I want to put out and I know what I want to receive, especially, like, I'm not gonna be like, well, Who the fuck are you? I've always hated that girl. In any movie, I never found her appealing. No matter how beautiful you are, if I can see how ugly your heart is, I will never call you beautiful. And I just don't like that. And I don't want to be that. So yeah, I'm going to be nice to people and polite to people and treat people accordingly because I don't want anybody to do like this to me. Steven Wakabayashi
keep going? Kekoa (41:00):
It is just knowing that I can make pride happen. It's, I know it's crazy. I think about Indonesia, what this could mean, what I would do, what I could do. And if someone like me was around when I was like a kid, I had no idea I was going to end up a drag queen. If I knew as an 8 year old, 9 year old, that an Indonesian drag queen, half Asian, who grew up like me, was somehow going to come to New York City and be a beautiful cross dresser dancing around a stage. What? You don't think of that? But then like, I don't know. I also think about this. In Indonesia, outside of Jakarta, and so many places in Asia too, don't have access to media, don't have access to oh, so many things that we as queer people in New York City and a lot of major cities have a privilege. Steven Wakabayashi
(42:00):
I think of like, probably the 10 year old kid who is back in the middle of Jauhati Timor, who is at home and his parents, and he has to hide that he's queer because he doesn't know. And so his whole thing, he's gonna marry somebody. And won't realize that he has a whole life ahead or the young girl in Sumatra who is hiding from her dad that she likes girls, you know, it's those, and they don't have TV. That is because they're out in the forest or they're out in the rice fields or anything in these places that don't have access. And I know that if what Ican do. And be showcased visibility internationally to the point where I can end up on local media in Indonesia and someone sees that someone like me can exist, could do something, and for them to inspire in their own local communities. There is a drag queen I know, her name is Disco Amber. She just recently just moved back to Wuhan, China, and she was telling me about like we were talking about the scene and how there wasn't much of one and we're talking about it and I was like, at the end of the day, the scene is now existing because you're going back to
start one. Steven Wakabayashi (43:00):
Yeah. Kekoa
(44:00):
broader than we think, so. I like to think of this quote, when I think of like, if 1 percent of the world liked you and other percent of the world, right now the world is 8 billion people. That's about like 88 million people are like, to love you. I don't know that many people, do you? That's a lot of communities within that, within that, within that, that don't exist, that don't know you're around. I don't have love yet. So I have a lot of time to do that. Sothat's what I want, that the communities are bigger and that you can make more contributions locally than it seems. There are, it's like you can make more impact by starting a lot smaller than it seems. And I want more Indonesians, especially, to understand that religion should not have a play in culture, in modern culture. Religion is something to believe in, it's something for your own personal spiritual growth, but it should not have a dictate in how you navigate
(45:00):
with other people, and it should actually not navigate how you control other people. So I would love Indonesians to understand that religion is not a tool to be used against people, and also to open up themselves that the world is changing and we have to keep up. The world is going to turn. We keep saying the world is ending. The world is not going to end. We're going to, mother nature is going to be fine. As soon as we're dead, she's going to reset. And then in 10 years, 15 million yearsagain, it's going to be all over again. Steven Wakabayashi: Respawn. Yeah. Kekoa: So it's like, if we're going to be the only impact in our lives, then we have to do something. Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. And I'm just curious. Is there any last note that you want listeners to take away with? Kekoa: I would say everyone's journey is going to be different because the fact of the matter is we're all different writers with different books. We're not all writing a journal. Some of us are writing
(46:00):
encyclopedias. Some of us are writing anthologies. Some of us are writing user's manuals. Everyone has a different perspective and a different way of seeing things and we're going to absorb and put our information differently. Being able to separate yourself from that and being able to look at other people and realize we're all just, the only thing that connects us is that we're all having different things. The only consistency is inconsistency. And once you learn to absorb thatinto a lot of other aspects, things kind of make sense. Steven Wakabayashi: And I know we're coming towards the end and here we have a few rapid fire questions. I just, I have so many goosebumps right now, just listening to our conversation. I see so much of what you resonate out. I feel like you live it, you're in it, and What I think is so beautiful in the beginning, you're just talking about this childhood that you had and it's just being so rough and I think it's so beautiful
that you're really creating and ushering in a space that other baby Kekoas are going to have such a different life coming up then and now and I'm just so grateful for folks like you just helping to pave the way. And it's just so powerful to see this cycle of positive change. They're also sharing and uplifting. Kekoa (47:00):
I think of it this way. I don't want to pave nothing for nobody. I just have really big footsteps. And so, whatever you see in front of you, if you want to follow it, go ahead. But my footsteps are just really big. Steven Wakabayashi
(48:00):
because just last night I made my Japanese curry, and it was just, I love cooking and I was making my dashi. And after I tasted the broth, I was like, oh, this is going to be so good. And I like to overload my curry with lots of carrots and potatoes. And last night I did add a few green apples because I wanted like a little bit of like a slight sourness to cancel out curry ness and it was like good because then I added some extra chili thingson top and I was like spicy and umami with a little hint of sourness at the end. It was just like that lately. I really just love to cook. It makes me really happy. Steven Wakabayashi: Mmm. That sounds good. Second question. What tip do you have for new queens starting out? Kekoa: Be yourself. And I mean that as in like, take a step back because I think, especially with drag, there are so many layers to it. As in like, there's makeup, hair,
(49:00):
the persona you want to put out, how you want to view, how you want to perform. At the end of the day, drag is, this is just, this is decoration. All of this is decoration. People will come back to you because of you. Like, people come to me not because of just I look good, because I want to connect with them. Because I want people to come to my shows and feel safe. And I think any queen getting into the scene should be like, what is your intention with drag? And what kind of feeling areyou going to have people around you? Because I don't think people, girls, are aware enough about like, what kind of Energy you're putting out and what you want to bring back in because they come up and like, you're so pretty. Let's go party together. Let's take a selfie together. You're so hot, you wanna do a bumpiana? Let's go to afters at - you know, like, and I love to perform. I love to, right, but I like talking to people. Yeah. So be yourself and when you learn that to be yourself
and stick it all back, you'll see where you fit in. Where you fit into the drag realm, but more than anything, where you fit into life and how drag can be a part of your life. Steven Wakabayashi (50:00):
And what is something that's changed your perspective on something recently? Kekoa
Yorkers, wear more color. Kekoa (51:00):
Wear more color! Like, we love black, but black should not be, and black should be worn if it's going to be texturally smart. If you're going to wear all black, then I need to see different textures and shades of black. I can't just see one black sheen and be like, Oh, that's kind of Textures! Human beings are made of different textures. The texture of your teeth, texture of your eyeball, texture of your hair, texture of your skin, texture of your clothing around you. Human beings work because we're different textures and layers. What makes anything different when you look at anything aesthetically? Steven Wakabayashi
actual, I'm just pointing it out. Steven Wakabayashi (52:00):
Some people are dry and some people are moist. Some people like talent and some people Kekoa
unprecedented. Kekoa (53:00):
Thailand! Korea, look at like, korea, it is happening. It is happening. And guess what Indonesia and this is for my Indonesian followers. We are going to have pride in this lifetime and I'm going to be there because I'm going to be in the front float. And it's going to be in Sudirman and we're all going to have beautiful and Indonesians are probably, if they ever watch this, it'd be like, you're crazy. You should not be saying this. You could get yourself killed. Guess what? Life has done worse. We're going to have Pride in Jakarta one day and it's going to be great. Steven Wakabayashi
going to be hot, both the girls, the gays, and everyone in between is going to look so cunty because that's our standard. Steven Wakabayashi (54:00):
Yes. Here for it. Um, and then as we're starting to wrap. Like any last note, any last takeaway, anything you want to leave our listeners with? Kekoa
Steven Wakabayashi (55:00):
Yeah. Well Kekoa thank you so much. This has been a fabulous convo. Kekoa
times within the greater Williamsburg or Brooklyn area. Uh, my Instagram handle, by the way, I'm gonna do this for everybody very slowly. It is kekoais. That is K E K O A I S. Yes, Kekoais, your favorite drag queen. And that is also on Venmo and Cash App as well. Steven Wakabayashi (56:00):
That's a first! You know what, but put it, yes, put it down. Well, thank you so much. This has been great. And for those of you who are listening, hope you took away some wonderful nuggets and hope you have been enlightened by our conversation because I definitely have. And with that, Kekoa, thank you so much. I hope to have you back soon. Kekoa
(57:00):
you.
If I knew as an eight year old, nine year old, that an Indonesian drag queen, half Asian, who grew up like me, was somehow going to come to New York City and be a beautiful cross-dresser dancing around a stage. What? You don't think of that? When I think about my queerness, I don't think of just someone in Jakarta watching me on their phone. I think of probably the 10 year old kid who's back in the middle of Djawadi Timor and he has to hide that he's queer because he doesn't know. And so his whole thing, he's going to marry somebodyand realize that he has a whole life ahead. Or the young girl who is hiding from her dad that she likes girls. And I know that. What I can do and be showcased visibility internationally to the point where I can end up on local media in Indonesia and someone sees that someone like me can exist, could do something and for them to inspire in their own local communities. It's not about just going to spaces and being a thinker, but how about going into spaces that you don't realize that you need someone like me to exist. Steven Wakabayashi:
(01:00):
Hi everyone, my name is Steven Wakabayashi and you're listening to Yellow Glitter, perspectives from queer asian creatives and changemakers making an impact. This episode we're joined by an extra special guest, Kekoa. Kekoa is a unique drag artist hailing from a faraway place that she'll tell you all about in our episode. This performer hails from the islands ofIndonesia. and is known for their powerful performance style and ability to use both hands at the same time with a wide variety of accolades and awards which do not translate into American English because in her words, it's still the wrong English. Here to bring a new sensation to the drag experience and remind you of the importance of knowing the second verse, it's Kekoa.
Welcome! Kekoa (02:00):
Hi! What's up, everybody? It's the person who knows the second verse. Steven Wakabayashi
sing the song. And you know what? I probably did. Steven Wakabayashi (03:00):
You, you've got to entertain. And Kekoa
wait, always a bird person? You like birds? How many birds do you have? Kekoa (04:00):
Now, listen, yeah, I haven't really been into ornithology. When I was a kid, I was really into the study of ornithology and birds. So like, I'm actually really into birds. Steven Wakabayashi
from Indonesia, growing up there, before you got into drag, what was it like? Kekoa (05:00):
So, I remember when I first came through the birth canal, it was, I saw a light and I was just like, I'm almost there, I'm almost there. And then I popped out and I saw it and I was like, Oh shit, I'm covered in blood, that's crazy. And hence then, train of thought happened. Um, so I was born to a lovely couple by the name of Daniel and Deborah Iskandar. They are currently still living in Jakarta. I was born and raised in Jakarta, Indonesia. I know, wild, but I was. My mother is American. My father is Chinese Indonesian. And my mother is Baptist. My dad is Catholic. I grew up going to public school in a Muslim country as a queer, artsy kid. And I want to emphasize, I wasn't just a faggot. I was an artsy faggot, which means I had double the no friends. Steven Wakabayashi
Like, growing up with parents who were very religious, it seems like, right? Like, and especially in a Muslim country, but they weren't Muslim themselves. Like, yeah, what was that like? Kekoa (06:00):
I guess the best way to describe it is, It taught me a lot of different things. It taught me different perspectives. It taught me how to handle things, and it also , maybe as sad as it is, taught me how to be an adult from a very early on age and just be like, I'm kind of gonna be on my own and I'm gonna be on my own for a while. Not everybody's gonna understand me. Not everybody's gonna understand my journey, who I am. And it's also not for them to understand at this point, because everyone's a human being. Try to go through their own thing. That's okay. But definitely growing up, it definitely taught me a lot. I think as a kid, you know, you don't understand. I didn't understand especially like, I guess like why I was not accepted for the longest time. And then I quickly learned early on that it was never about me necessarily. It was just
(07:00):
everybody else kind of grew up with what's around them, and they just aren't comfortable with things that aren't , they don't understand. And so, luckily enough, as a kid, I was like, okay, I knew I was gonna be art, I knew I was gay, I knew I was gonna have different experiences, and I especially knew that, like, I knew that my childhood experience was not gonna be something that I would hold on to. If that makes sense. I learned that like as a kid that just like, this is only temporary, as soon asI become an adult or turn legally 18, that's when I can become who I am. So growing up to that point, it was probably just a lot of just like survival and biding time to build up to where I am today. Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you're a very mature kid growing up. And I'm just curious, to even get to that point, was there any Formulative, like, like you were in the arts or just was there anything that you consumed growing up that helped you better understand that. I mean, even for
myself, like I, and I remember as a childhood that I knew there was a world beyond me or that, you know, seeing people and this violence and this hatred sometimes they would spew out was little to do with me. Actually, it's like not even until like after high school and then I figured it out. I'm just curious, like growing up, like, like what gave you such a level head? Kekoa (08:00):
Because I knew it would be temporary. I learned early on in life, very early on in life, that Nothing is ever gonna be permanent in your life. Nothing is ever gonna be It may sound sad, nothing is ever gonna impact you the way it does. I think I've also learned that just not to give meaning to things that don't really just need a meaning to them. You know, I sat detached in a way. It was a survival method, but it taught me to just like take a step back and be like, this is not about me or does not even, but what I, the only thing I can control is how I react. That is the only thing I can ever control. So I just had to learn the
(09:00):
only way I could move on is how I react to things, how I absorb things and how I was going to move forward with my life and whether I was going to let my experiences define me or not. And I decided. Growing up and after the experiences that I've had and seeing people play victims to those experiences, I said to myself, I was never going to be that. I was never going to be someone who played victim. I was never going to be someone who pitied myself. And I was never going to be someone who get, I mean, when you have the opportunity to thinkthat just like you would define me. Steven Wakabayashi: Wow. So growing up and identity, finding your queer identity, when did that happen? Was it something? There was like an experience in particular, something you felt? Kekoa: I knew I was gay. I knew I was gay since I was a kid. Oh my God. I remember, okay, the first actual moment where I was like, I knew I liked boys, Ricky Martin came on Channel V, which was a music video TV channel at the time. Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kekoa: Livin La Vida Loca. And it was like the
music video with him, like the gold and the black shirt. Inside, inside out. Livin La Vida Loca. And I was like, I want to kiss him. I was a kid and I knew that I was a kid and I knew that I was six and seven Steven Wakabayashi (10:00):
You were bothered you're hot and bothered. Kekoa
actually like got his shit together. He's not like a total crazy like celebrity. Which I'm like, Steven Wakabayashi (11:00):
yeah. Well, he left the limelight for a bit. Yeah. And he kind of figured out stuff, right? Whereas some celebrities just literally like, You see them falling apart on camera. Kekoa
navigate that is questionable. Steven Wakabayashi (12:00):
It's a lot. I mean, I have friends with kids. Kekoa
paying for your tuition. Steven Wakabayashi (13:00):
You heard it here folks. We're not paying for that tuition. And that tuition is expensive now. That tuition, college is so expensive now. Right? So just going back to the childhood and growing up and some notes that I have, you went to military school, right? So you were artsy, you were finding your queer identity and you're like, I need to get the F out of here and you end up at military school. What was that like? Kekoa
teacher and then I was. disinvited for the next year because they didn't want to make a scene that a teacher and a student were actually having a fistfight. Steven Wakabayashi (14:00):
Wow. And so you ended up going to military school. And I mean, what was that like? Was it, was it meant to set some discipline in you? Kekoa
went to military school in Georgia in the South. So, and I went to a Naval school, like Army. It was Navy. So it was a lot more structured. It was much more of this like, it was like the army and the media are very different. Navy is the reason where like the Commodore were just like, if you don't hold still. Steven Wakabayashi (15:00):
Yeah. And was this your first introduction into what you saw as America and American culture? Assimilation. Kekoa
(16:00):
back, right. You were going through this life, finding this identity that, especially in a Muslim country with Christian parents. I can't imagine the pressures that you were under and feeling kind of it's like an out of body experience but still living in this body and being told what to do. I'm just curious like looking back have you taken a step back through your childhood in your memory and like like talked yourself through it even youknow because even like I just have so much empathy for that younger self and to me of course you're going to be disobedient. Like, this is your way of, right, fighting against all this pressures and things coming out, but I'm just curious. Kekoa: I don't think I necessarily empathize with my younger self. I look at my younger self and I'm kind of what my experience is and I look back at it and I'm just like, That shit was crazy. Wish it on
(17:00):
anybody, anyone. I would not know how to explain my current life or how I got to there to my younger self, other than that. No one's gonna get it. And my experiences will just teach you, taught me early on. I guess like in the way I answer that question is it's like what would I have to say to my younger self? Or say to my younger self? And the fact of the matter is I don't know how to explain it other than I just had to. It was either survive life or let life take me. I've already been through phases whereI'm like, I'm not going to try to kill myself again. We're not there anymore. You know, that's every queer experience. I feel like we've all had those moments where it's like, and unfortunately some people have experiences where it does end up successful. A lot of times it fails luckily. And then we don't know what to do after that because nothing changes after that. Yeah. And then whole era of like being queer and what is my purpose in life and how do I navigate all this? And then it dawned on me, especially
like, I was like, I was after military school and I had a breakdown where I was like, you know, life has no purpose. Life is not good. Life is just doesn't mean anything other than it is just what it is. You know, and I just have to give my own self purpose and all I can rely on is myself and my own abilities and rely on that. Steven Wakabayashi (18:00):
I mean, it got you where you are, so I'm following your timeline, you do the military school, you finish that out, and then when was it when you came to New York? Was it immediately after? Like, what does that timeline look like? Kekoa
dad, growing up, he didn't like going to events, so me being the eldest son was always sent it. I got to represent the family, so I was a little kid going with my mom everywhere because I had to be little man and be like, yeah, it's so nice your son is here and me being eight year old be like, hello auntie, hello uncle, good to see you. Yes, I know, just keeping my mom company. But second row of that show, I was right behind her, because I can't sit in the front row. Steven Wakabayashi (19:00):
Why was she invited? Or like, was there a connection? Kekoa
in. And that was kind of it. I learned like, what it means when you put your effort and love into something and it doesn't have to be another person. Steven Wakabayashi (20:00):
Mm hmm. And So then you were inspired, you went to school, you graduated. Did you try going into the fashion industry? Kekoa
people that I want associate with my whole life. Steven Wakabayashi (21:00):
Mm. I mean, it's a, it's a tough industry and. But let me ask, uh, so drag as a persona and identity, when did you start dabbling in it? When did that show up? Kekoa
Steven Wakabayashi (22:00):
Yeah. Kekoa
What did you pick? Kekoa (23:00):
Okay, we had a couple lives. The very first name I ever had, 2013, when they first met me was Katya Man. You got the joke already right there. Right? Cool. Steven Wakabayashi
be In, I N. Like, who's she? She's In. Who's that? That's In. The queen. In. You know, chic, fun. Like, I thought it was a fun name. And then my drag mother's. Yeah, you got it now right? Steven Wakabayashi (24:00):
That's so like, you went from basically one spectrum, which was the, I guess, I guess the Paris Hilton of drag side, and then you're going complete, like. Abstract conceptualization, like. But what happened? What did your drag mother say? Kekoa: Your name is prettier, and then also I thought about what my, what is my drag What my goals are with drag. Because if this is an industry or something that I was going to pursue in the long term, I gotta have goals that are the same as anybody else's job, right? You're not just doing a job and being like, La da da da da da da, every single day. You have a goal you want to achieve. I want to make queer rights happen across Asia. Specifically, I want
(25:00):
to make pride happen in Asia. I want to make queer rights and human, like queer, actually like adoption rights, pure rights, and across Asia. That's my goal. People look at me like I'm crazy and I'm like, I know I am crazy. I also put on my hair and makeup and look where it got me. So, I'm like, I know that I can use this to kind of like showcase a different side of Asian ness. And also an Asian queer persona, but especially one with intentionality. Not that's just like, I'm a fun,queer, Asian person. Or like an artist or just pretty. I am intentional, I am strong, I have a view set and a mindset that isn't about being the perfect Asian ambassador. I want to showcase the reality of being in Asia is we're, have a spectrum of things and it's not always this beautiful, heightened version of history and traditions. where modern Asia is kind of comedic and slapstick and Indonesia is a corny ass country. And there's things happening and there's so much history, but
also so many nuances and things in life that I'm like, I want to show more of that, the human side to people. And this is the best way to describe that. Steven Wakabayashi (26:00):
Yeah. And I'm wondering also with your Asian identity and leaving Indonesia, it seems now like this is a big part of your drag and a big motivation to leverage it for other people paving the way with your Asian identity, but was that always the case? Were you always a big proponent of, my Asian background is going to be a part of this drag when you first started? Or has that shifted? Kekoa
(27:00):
even in school. So I wasn't even Kekoa, I was just Bule. They'll call me that. And oftentimes I was shamed for it. I would be made fun of it. I was constantly reminded that I was not Asian enough. So a big part of my journey now is to prove that, like, I think it was to prove. And now it's my understanding of like, I am Asian enough because I have more Asian experiences on my arm. No one can tell me my experiences, but it's what I do. I know what I have to go through in life. I know who I have to talk to. I still haveaunties who make fun of my weight when I go home. If that's not Asian, I don't know what is. I get shamed for eating and I get shamed for not eating enough. Steven Wakabayashi: Never perfect. Kekoa: Never perfect. And of course, the first thing, because my aunties, Oh my God, you gained weight, right? Steven Wakabayashi: How dare you? Kekoa: Hi. Hi. But then within the next five minutes. Come to the kitchen, come eat. It was a lot of that. And now it's, I am an Asian. And now I can showcase a different side of myself.
And people now see that, like, the Asian experience is different. And I want, I want to show that. You don't have to look like me, sound like me, act like me, think like me, but if you look like, if you look at me and think, wow, they're kind of crazy. They're really Asian in their own way. I can do the same thing. Or even if I can motivate you, be like, she's not doing it right. I can do it better. Steven Wakabayashi (28:00):
Yeah. And I'm curious, have you, while you're doing it here in New York City, faced any challenges? In doing drag? Yeah. What's come up for you? Kekoa
(29:00):
picked up some things from her. People have constantly been like, Oh my god, Beijing! Oh my god, Kekoa! And to each other. And we're just like, Oh my god, how many times this week did someone call you me? Or me you? And then there are so many shows where I'm just like, the entire lineup maybe one Asian person. Which you will have so many of the other races involved. You will have them, but only one Asian person. And then there'll be the, Oh, not about that. Yes, it is. It is a hundred percent because then Asian people in America, we arecategorized into tokenism of whiteness, but also we still want to be put at this person-of-color box. Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. But also the Asian diaspora is so big, you know?, Kekoa: But how many times we've Asia is so many, how many countries? You have more countries than probably any other continent. And historically, and physically, in features, traditions and cultures that are so different. You come to America, especially, you're suddenly one of three things. Korean, Chinese, and Filipino now. That's, in America today, that's what it
(30:00):
is. That's just the reality. And when people look at me, they're just like, Oh my, see my name. They're like, Oh my God, your name's Hawaiian. And they look at me like, Oh my God, you're filipino? Because I'm southeast Asian? Because there's no way that I could be Indonesian. And like, then I say I'm Indonesian. And they're like, Oh, wow, cool. Don't know much about it. And I'm like, I know. Because most of them are uneducated, and because most people don't want to learn about the nuances of Asian cultures. Andhopefully with America, in America now, with my shows, with my sisters, we've been able to like showcase a variety of Asian people. Me and my sisters, Felicia Oh and Kanika, we started a show called Red Lantern District because we saw this need of diverse Asian voices. And especially a need in Brooklyn, in more rural, like different areas that show a queer side of Asian people that's not just like with the Bowen Yangs or the Joel Kim Boosters, you know. And like just, we wanted to show a very different side. And
luckily within the past year we've been able to just do that. Steven Wakabayashi (31:00):
Yeah, and I mean, speaking especially of these upcoming projects, I think, one, I absolutely love the way in which you're uplifting different Asian identities. I really don't know any Indonesian drag queens, you know, and I'm just curious, especially when it comes to now looking at your heritage and your culture as a part of uplifting, how does that show up in particular? How has it been showing up? Kekoa
(32:00):
often that these traditional dancers were male. And then when I came back to Jakarta after that, I was doing, I was working with a PR, like, events company. So I was doing a lot of, like, weddings, birthday parties, gigs. I wasn't doing bar scenes. And that's a big, I would say, like, in Indonesia at the time when I was leaving. it was still, a lot of us were either doing events or part of a cabaret. So like in Jogja, there was the Ramiten Cabaret, which is burlesque, but also crossdressing, as he puts it. So a lot of that. But now, since I've left, I just learned that this new drag bar that opened in Jakarta, and I saw this one photo of like, eleven Indonesian queens all in one photo. And I was like, There's eleven of you all in one photo doing a photoshoot? That's crazy. But also, that's amazing. Steven Wakabayashi: That is amazing. Kekoa: In the city like Jakarta, they found a way to have a bunch of drag shows. And it was a set for young performers to just come and
do their art. It's changing. Indonesia is opening up and understanding queer experiences and know what that looks like in today's society. And that's what I'm really happy to see. Like, Indonesia is progressing. It has room. The only Indonesian queen that I had known of, other than the ones I was working with back home, is Raja from RuPaul's Drag Race. She won. Steven Wakabayashi (33:00):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Kekoa
day, it was just, who is the most beautiful? And. I think we just got to a point where we're like Kekoa (34:00):
Beauty fades! Boring. Yes. We like to look at it. But after five minutes, you're done looking at it. You're not like as much like even if you're watching the most beautiful stuff, I am not going to spend five minutes in understanding just staring at something. I'm not one of those people. You better be doing something. Please. Steven Wakabayashi
(35:00):
be funny and witty. That's a read. That's so funny, ha ha. Oh my God, you're so funny. And I think there's also this queerness of self hatred, where we're gonna kind of, and we're like slightly masochistic. And like, when it comes from a drag queen, who was just inherently this figure of queerness doing it back. They're like, Oh my God, this is funny. Ha ha, entertaining. But then like, if you're on the mic, If you were in the audience, watching any entertainer, would you like it if someone came up to you and was just like, You look like that, that's crazy, you're ugly, getout of my face, buy me a drink. Would anybody like that? No. And I know some people think, ha, that's funny, or that's drag. No, it's not. That's you trying to get away and make an excuse. I don't think it's an excuse to be mad, to be mean. I don't think of it as people want to make excuses. Like, this is the way things have always been. Great. That's what we were always done. Cool. Do you like it? Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. Kekoa: And you want to continue it because it's always done? Or that's the way it is? No, because people are afraid to actually say their mind or make
change and ruffle feathers. When the fact of the matter is, you don't evolve unless you let out your outer shell. Understand that you got to be vulnerable and soft for a little bit and harden again. That was a whole lot. Steven Wakabayashi (36:00):
I like the piece that you were saying where it's about this self hatred, but also the self hatred that is a part of society burdening us, right? It's the larger homophobia, anti queerness, and we carry it for a long time, normalizing it. It comes out in this way, we put it out there. You also see it with even just gay men and how they talk to each other and the way body dysmorphia is normalized, right? You're just so disgusting to each other. Kekoa
anybody ever says, anything, seriously. Your actions will always be more than what you say. Words are just words. Steven Wakabayashi (37:00):
I mean, there's so many ways to unpack this, but I'm just curious. Is there, is there something that has helped you? Cause I do think a lot of us in the queer space, This is what is bestowed upon us, right? But is there something that worked for you to basically snap out of it and start thinking of ways that was more intentional? And like, I think a lot of the, what you're saying, I mean, it seems like you matured really young, really quickly, but even the way that you're starting to, it's like sassy, but intentional. And I'm just curious, is there something that like really was helpful? And you kind of becoming more aware, becoming more intentional, becoming more open minded about some of these things. Kekoa
(38:00):
this goes back to a question I got, like, who I want to be. And was there anybody around me who was doing their life that I could look up to? There isn't. I've never been someone that's like, they're my idol. They're my icon. I follow them heartedly. I've never been someone where it's just like, that person inspired me so much. Cause truth is, I've learned that no one's ever gonna inspire me the same way I will because the things that I want just aren't around. I could either waitaround for someone to do those things and then follow suit, or I could just do it regardless of if I know what I'm doing but its starting something. I guess like I stepped out of it because I realized that no one else was gonna be able to make the changes that I wanted to be seen done. And no one else was gonna do the things that I wanted to be done. Like, I don't like pushing meanness. I don't like seeing it on TV. I just, I don't watch a whole lot of like The Traitors shows or
(39:00):
these House of Villains shows. Cause I don't like that kind of personality around me. And I know people like, oh, it's fun. It's funny. Great. I'm glad you enjoy it. It's just not something I want to choose to act or surround myself with or absorb into my life. That's it. And I just knew because, because of growing up and being told that this was the norm and being often being forced that, that I have to normalize this in my life. Yeah. That because this, I am somehow unaware because I don't absorb these things.No, I think I just don't absorb things because I'm aware of what they are. And so that was it. It was just like, I just always had to know that who I wanted to be and the intentions that I want have to come from me. I can only be done by me. Steven Wakabayashi: I mean, your reputation precedes itself. We were connected through Ty, who was also on the podcast, and a dear friend. Kekoa: My baby! Steven Wakabayashi: Ty was like, Kekoa is one of the nicest people. I was like, let me see about that. And I was like, oh my
god, Ty! Kekoa is so nice! Kekoa (40:00):
I think it's more than nice, I'm polite. Like, I'm just, I know how to communicate with people because I'm intentional and I know what I want to put out and I know what I want to receive, especially, like, I'm not gonna be like, well, Who the fuck are you? I've always hated that girl. In any movie, I never found her appealing. No matter how beautiful you are, if I can see how ugly your heart is, I will never call you beautiful. And I just don't like that. And I don't want to be that. So yeah, I'm going to be nice to people and polite to people and treat people accordingly because I don't want anybody to do like this to me. Steven Wakabayashi
keep going? Kekoa (41:00):
It is just knowing that I can make pride happen. It's, I know it's crazy. I think about Indonesia, what this could mean, what I would do, what I could do. And if someone like me was around when I was like a kid, I had no idea I was going to end up a drag queen. If I knew as an 8 year old, 9 year old, that an Indonesian drag queen, half Asian, who grew up like me, was somehow going to come to New York City and be a beautiful cross dresser dancing around a stage. What? You don't think of that? But then like, I don't know. I also think about this. In Indonesia, outside of Jakarta, and so many places in Asia too, don't have access to media, don't have access to oh, so many things that we as queer people in New York City and a lot of major cities have a privilege. Steven Wakabayashi
(42:00):
I think of like, probably the 10 year old kid who is back in the middle of Jauhati Timor, who is at home and his parents, and he has to hide that he's queer because he doesn't know. And so his whole thing, he's gonna marry somebody. And won't realize that he has a whole life ahead or the young girl in Sumatra who is hiding from her dad that she likes girls, you know, it's those, and they don't have TV. That is because they're out in the forest or they're out in the rice fields or anything in these places that don't have access. And I know that if what Ican do. And be showcased visibility internationally to the point where I can end up on local media in Indonesia and someone sees that someone like me can exist, could do something, and for them to inspire in their own local communities. There is a drag queen I know, her name is Disco Amber. She just recently just moved back to Wuhan, China, and she was telling me about like we were talking about the scene and how there wasn't much of one and we're talking about it and I was like, at the end of the day, the scene is now existing because you're going back to
start one. Steven Wakabayashi (43:00):
Yeah. Kekoa
(44:00):
broader than we think, so. I like to think of this quote, when I think of like, if 1 percent of the world liked you and other percent of the world, right now the world is 8 billion people. That's about like 88 million people are like, to love you. I don't know that many people, do you? That's a lot of communities within that, within that, within that, that don't exist, that don't know you're around. I don't have love yet. So I have a lot of time to do that. Sothat's what I want, that the communities are bigger and that you can make more contributions locally than it seems. There are, it's like you can make more impact by starting a lot smaller than it seems. And I want more Indonesians, especially, to understand that religion should not have a play in culture, in modern culture. Religion is something to believe in, it's something for your own personal spiritual growth, but it should not have a dictate in how you navigate
(45:00):
with other people, and it should actually not navigate how you control other people. So I would love Indonesians to understand that religion is not a tool to be used against people, and also to open up themselves that the world is changing and we have to keep up. The world is going to turn. We keep saying the world is ending. The world is not going to end. We're going to, mother nature is going to be fine. As soon as we're dead, she's going to reset. And then in 10 years, 15 million yearsagain, it's going to be all over again. Steven Wakabayashi: Respawn. Yeah. Kekoa: So it's like, if we're going to be the only impact in our lives, then we have to do something. Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah. And I'm just curious. Is there any last note that you want listeners to take away with? Kekoa: I would say everyone's journey is going to be different because the fact of the matter is we're all different writers with different books. We're not all writing a journal. Some of us are writing
(46:00):
encyclopedias. Some of us are writing anthologies. Some of us are writing user's manuals. Everyone has a different perspective and a different way of seeing things and we're going to absorb and put our information differently. Being able to separate yourself from that and being able to look at other people and realize we're all just, the only thing that connects us is that we're all having different things. The only consistency is inconsistency. And once you learn to absorb thatinto a lot of other aspects, things kind of make sense. Steven Wakabayashi: And I know we're coming towards the end and here we have a few rapid fire questions. I just, I have so many goosebumps right now, just listening to our conversation. I see so much of what you resonate out. I feel like you live it, you're in it, and What I think is so beautiful in the beginning, you're just talking about this childhood that you had and it's just being so rough and I think it's so beautiful
that you're really creating and ushering in a space that other baby Kekoas are going to have such a different life coming up then and now and I'm just so grateful for folks like you just helping to pave the way. And it's just so powerful to see this cycle of positive change. They're also sharing and uplifting. Kekoa (47:00):
I think of it this way. I don't want to pave nothing for nobody. I just have really big footsteps. And so, whatever you see in front of you, if you want to follow it, go ahead. But my footsteps are just really big. Steven Wakabayashi
(48:00):
because just last night I made my Japanese curry, and it was just, I love cooking and I was making my dashi. And after I tasted the broth, I was like, oh, this is going to be so good. And I like to overload my curry with lots of carrots and potatoes. And last night I did add a few green apples because I wanted like a little bit of like a slight sourness to cancel out curry ness and it was like good because then I added some extra chili thingson top and I was like spicy and umami with a little hint of sourness at the end. It was just like that lately. I really just love to cook. It makes me really happy. Steven Wakabayashi: Mmm. That sounds good. Second question. What tip do you have for new queens starting out? Kekoa: Be yourself. And I mean that as in like, take a step back because I think, especially with drag, there are so many layers to it. As in like, there's makeup, hair,
(49:00):
the persona you want to put out, how you want to view, how you want to perform. At the end of the day, drag is, this is just, this is decoration. All of this is decoration. People will come back to you because of you. Like, people come to me not because of just I look good, because I want to connect with them. Because I want people to come to my shows and feel safe. And I think any queen getting into the scene should be like, what is your intention with drag? And what kind of feeling areyou going to have people around you? Because I don't think people, girls, are aware enough about like, what kind of Energy you're putting out and what you want to bring back in because they come up and like, you're so pretty. Let's go party together. Let's take a selfie together. You're so hot, you wanna do a bumpiana? Let's go to afters at - you know, like, and I love to perform. I love to, right, but I like talking to people. Yeah. So be yourself and when you learn that to be yourself
and stick it all back, you'll see where you fit in. Where you fit into the drag realm, but more than anything, where you fit into life and how drag can be a part of your life. Steven Wakabayashi (50:00):
And what is something that's changed your perspective on something recently? Kekoa
Yorkers, wear more color. Kekoa (51:00):
Wear more color! Like, we love black, but black should not be, and black should be worn if it's going to be texturally smart. If you're going to wear all black, then I need to see different textures and shades of black. I can't just see one black sheen and be like, Oh, that's kind of Textures! Human beings are made of different textures. The texture of your teeth, texture of your eyeball, texture of your hair, texture of your skin, texture of your clothing around you. Human beings work because we're different textures and layers. What makes anything different when you look at anything aesthetically? Steven Wakabayashi
actual, I'm just pointing it out. Steven Wakabayashi (52:00):
Some people are dry and some people are moist. Some people like talent and some people Kekoa
unprecedented. Kekoa (53:00):
Thailand! Korea, look at like, korea, it is happening. It is happening. And guess what Indonesia and this is for my Indonesian followers. We are going to have pride in this lifetime and I'm going to be there because I'm going to be in the front float. And it's going to be in Sudirman and we're all going to have beautiful and Indonesians are probably, if they ever watch this, it'd be like, you're crazy. You should not be saying this. You could get yourself killed. Guess what? Life has done worse. We're going to have Pride in Jakarta one day and it's going to be great. Steven Wakabayashi
going to be hot, both the girls, the gays, and everyone in between is going to look so cunty because that's our standard. Steven Wakabayashi (54:00):
Yes. Here for it. Um, and then as we're starting to wrap. Like any last note, any last takeaway, anything you want to leave our listeners with? Kekoa
Steven Wakabayashi (55:00):
Yeah. Well Kekoa thank you so much. This has been a fabulous convo. Kekoa
times within the greater Williamsburg or Brooklyn area. Uh, my Instagram handle, by the way, I'm gonna do this for everybody very slowly. It is kekoais. That is K E K O A I S. Yes, Kekoais, your favorite drag queen. And that is also on Venmo and Cash App as well. Steven Wakabayashi (56:00):
That's a first! You know what, but put it, yes, put it down. Well, thank you so much. This has been great. And for those of you who are listening, hope you took away some wonderful nuggets and hope you have been enlightened by our conversation because I definitely have. And with that, Kekoa, thank you so much. I hope to have you back soon. Kekoa
(57:00):
you.
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