June 6, 2025 • 65 mins
In this episode of Yellow Glitter podcast, we're joined by our returning guest Mike Curato. Mike is an acclaimed author and illustrator known for his children's books and graphic novels. He shares about his latest book launch "Gaysians", an adult graphic novel highlighting the lives of diverse queer Asian characters.
In this episode, we chat about:
- The journey of creating Gaysians and writing/illustrating complex, personal topics at the intersection of Asian & queer identities, chosen families, self-discovery, and communal care
- Embracing the human spirit through Kintsugi and drawing inspiration from the process of breaking and mending
- Challenges of queer Asian representation in media and literature
- Importance of speaking out and creating more representative materials
- Role of joy in healing and mending our communities
You can find our guest at:
- Instagram: @mike_curato
- Website: MikeCurato.com
You can follow me at:
- Instagram: @stevenwakabayashi
- YouTube: @stevenwakabayashi
- Subscribe to my weekly newsletter: yellowglitterpodcast.substack.com
- Visit our website yellowglitterpodcast.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I love the art of Kintsugi, right?
Where it's like something'sbroken and then it's put back
together with gold, right?
And then it's even stronger,and I think that's a better
representation of the human spirit.
Things are going to break.
We're not built to be indestructible,like we're actually not gods.
(00:24):
Um, maybe we have a piece ofthe divine, but like we're
going to crack at some point.
And it's like, are you going to put thingsback together and become even stronger
and more beautiful from that breakage?
Or are you gonna let it go to business?
(01:00):
Hello everyone.
My name is Steven Wakabayashi, andyou're listening to Yellow Glitter
Perspectives from Queer Asian creativesand Change Makers Making an Impact.
This episode, we're joined by our favoriteguest, Mike Curato, who's joining us
again showcasing his upcoming book launch.
Hi, I'm back.
(01:22):
We're so excited to haveyou and for the audience.
Mike is an author illustrator, booksfor Children, teens and Adults.
He's best known for his little ElliotPicture book series and his young
adult graphic novel Flamer, which wasreleased to critical acclaim and receives
several honors, including the 2020Lambda Literary Award for L-G-B-T-Q,
(01:44):
young Adult, the 2021 Massachusetts BookAward for Young Adult, and was listed
as one of NPR R'S best books of 2020.
Flamer also has the distinction of beingone of the most banned and challenge
books in the United States, and Mike hasbecome a fierce advocate of Free Speech.
Gaysians is his adult graphic noveldebut in which we're gonna talk
(02:07):
a little bit more about today.
Yes.
Let's get it.
Yes!
So last time we talked was almosta year ago when you were in
the thick of it with this book.
You were going through many rounds ofedits and revisions and how does it
(02:28):
feel now to be on the other end of it?
Oh my
gosh.
I mean, I got my social life backkind of, so that was welcome.
I mean, I was, yeah, I was going throughrevisions, but like going through it in
general, like trying to finish this thing,I mean, I was, I was pulling, you know,
like double, triple shift, you know, onthe daily for an unhealthy amount of time.
(02:51):
So I think
it paid off what was, what was causingall that time and all that rumination.
You know, I mean, this book hastaken me a few years to make.
I wrote it several years ago and thensold it, and there was a lot of mm-hmm.
You know, stop and go working on otherprojects, but it's just so detailed.
(03:12):
Like the art is so detailed and socondensed, you know, like flame, maybe you
get like three or four panels on a page.
This is like a larger page size and like,you know, maybe you've got eight panels
on a page, you know, and, and thesecharacters are maybe more realistically
(03:32):
rendered than Flamer, which kind ofleans more cartoony because I wanted
them to look like real people and to likereally look like the people who they are
representing hashtag Asian representation.
So, yes, that was, that was the goal.
And so it just, it just took avery long time to illustrate.
(03:55):
Yeah.
And for the audience, do you wanna sharea little bit about what is the book?
What is it about?
Yes, totally.
So the book is about four friendswho live in Seattle in 2003.
And one of them has just movedout there and is a little gaybie,
(04:16):
early twenties, a little aj and hedoesn't know his ass from his elbow
and has come out fairly recently.
And these three Gaysians take himunder their wing and it's, you know,
it's a book about chosen family.
They have their own little group.
They call themselves the Boy Luck Club,you know, and they're, I think it's, it's
(04:41):
important to center gay Asian storiesbecause it's not something we see.
I mean, hardly at all.
Right?
Yep.
And to feature like an allga cast a character big deal.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And to show like, we're not amonolith, like we're often stereotyped.
(05:04):
And you know, I kind of used some ofthose stereotypes as like an opener maybe.
And then really tried toflesh out real human beings.
You know, these are really individualpeople who I, I think of them
as my own friends and they arepartially based on my own friends.
I, I came out when I waslike, oh my God, I dunno.
(05:27):
21, 22. And then I graduatedcollege and I moved to Seattle.
The same thing happened to me, like abunch of people took me under their wing
and meeting other gay Asian people for thefirst time and making friends with them.
It was like I was being fullyseen in a three dimension away
for the first time in my life.
(05:48):
And there was a lot shortcutsto understanding each other.
Right.
I didn't have to explain certain thingsto them, like they just got it right away.
Yeah.
And so this group of friends, youknow, they're, they're just trying
to do their best in an imperfectworld who doesn't see them.
(06:10):
But the important thing is that theysee each other and support each other.
And even that can be a struggle, right.
I mean, they mm-hmm.
They ultimately come up against somemajor challenges in their relationships,
and it's kind of up to them right.
To mm-hmm.
Hold onto this familythat they've created.
And those are all very real thingsthat I know I've experienced
(06:32):
and others have experienced.
So.
And you know, it's, I like to thinkit's, yes, there's drama, there's
comedy, there's sex, there's drag.
Yeah.
You know, she has it all.
So you mentioned it'staken a while to Right.
Get out there.
(06:52):
This has been a thought of a projectthat you had quite some time ago.
Mm-hmm.
And as a part of this process andeven the editing process, like you
mentioned, it was just a lot ofwork with the details with the art.
And this is another evolutionof your work, but I just wanna
go into a little bit more ofspecifically around the process.
(07:14):
Um, how did it feel like.
Being so personal with your lifeand to unveil a part that one, I
haven't personally seen a diasporaof queer Asian folks and a whole
graphic novel centered around themhere, published in America, in here.
Um, but specifically for yourself inthis process, what are some things you
(07:39):
learned along the way while creating this?
Yeah.
I mean, I try to write storiesthat I wish I could read.
You know what I mean?
Like, there are books that Iwant to read that aren't Yeah.
Made yet, so sometimes Ijust have to make them.
So that's definitelywhat this is, um, for me.
And yeah, it is very personal.
(08:00):
Mm-hmm.
I think, you know, there's onecharacter that's very much based on
me, but I really identify with allof the main characters in the story.
I feel like each character representsa different stage of growth.
Mm-hmm.
That I've gone through adifferent time of my life.
Let's see, things that I learned, Imean, I mean, something that someone
(08:23):
told me when I was actually justgraduating college that has really rung
true for me is that we lived multiplelives, you know, in this one lifetime.
And, um, one of the characters,Kay, actually, she says, we're,
we die and are reborn many timesin our heart throughout our lives.
(08:46):
And I think that's so true, right?
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah, I really, I feel likeeach of these characters, maybe I
didn't think of it want when I waswriting, but I came to realize like,
oh, these really represent myself indifferent, different parts of my life.
Mm. And they're also like mixed.
They're amalgamations ofdifferent friends, different
(09:06):
people who have entered my life.
So yeah, a little bit ofthem, a little bit of me.
So some other inspirations just mm-hmm.
For this to make sense,aside from my friend group.
That I made in Seattle.
I, I really felt thelack of that community.
Later when I left Seattle and like mylittle GA family had kind of like mm-hmm.
(09:28):
Moved to different places and I actuallyrealized like, oh my God, that was
a really special time in my life.
And like, while I have a lot of queercommunity, yeah, I, you know, I have,
I have some Asian friends here andthere, but it was just really special.
And also, you know, I mentioned theycall themselves the Boy Luck Club.
(09:49):
Like I'm a huge Yeah.
Joy Luck Club fan.
And I think as a gay Asian, that wasdefinitely a movie I was so fixated on.
Um, even though it doesn't feature gaycharacters, I think oftentimes like
gay boys really, you know, look up to.
Female heroines.
Right.
(10:10):
Fabulous female heroines.
Yeah.
Yes.
Like some strong divas.
And I was obsessed, so it's like,oh, I've got these like incredible
Asian divas and you know, I'mFilipino, but like, it didn't matter.
Like I would just, any, anythingthat was Asian that I could like
glom onto, I'm like, oh my God, Irelate to these women, even though
(10:32):
it's not my culture, but it is.
Yeah.
And it's not my gender, but I get it.
So that was kind of an originalstructure for the story.
It was like kind of dissectinghow Amy Tan wrote the Joy
Luck Club and then, you know.
Mm-hmm.
I kind of did my own thing with it.
But all of these characters,their lives are all intertwined.
(10:55):
Mm-hmm.
And I, I love how she weavesthose stories together.
And I mean, that's just how it is, right?
Like yeah.
Our decisions really.
Affect each other.
Yeah.
What was that process like for you?
How did you bring about your personalexperiences, your backgrounds,
(11:16):
and put it to this project?
Because for your whole repertoire,I would say maybe this is the
most personal project yet, right?
Yeah, possibly.
I mean, Flamer got pretty personal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Talking about teenage suicidalideation, pretty personal.
Mm-hmm.
So I like to think of Gazenas like a continuation of that
(11:37):
very personal storytelling.
And you know, this is adult, right?
So I felt very liberated to say what Ihad to say in a very non-filtered way.
Not that I hold back that muchin Claimer, but it's definitely
written for a younger age group.
(11:59):
And you know, I had a lot of fun.
Like I had a lot of fun writing it.
Yeah.
And.
I felt it.
You know, I, I mean, there weretimes I'd be writing theme and I, I
would be crying writing the scene.
Oh, yeah.
Because it's just very visceral for me.
Like the joy and thesadness and the struggle.
Yeah.
It's all real.
(12:19):
And I should also mention, you know,I had the help of my community.
I interviewed, you know, a,a bunch of gay Asian folks.
Some I know, some like Deltawere like referred to me.
I talked to you of course.
And some of your guests on this podcast.
Mm-hmm.
(12:39):
And I found some common themes.
I also found some unique stories.
And I think,
yeah,
it's all valid.
Right?
And it all needs to be written down.
Yeah.
And was there, as you were goingthrough it, you were talking some
parts of the book evoked a lot ofemotions, tears, and just really deep,
(13:02):
raw feelings without sharing too much.
Is there any part that you wannamaybe share with listeners of just,
what was a moment when you were goingthrough it, writing it, creating
it, that seemed to also evoke a tonof feelings and emotions for you?
(13:23):
There were a, there werea few bangers emotionally.
Um, okay.
I'll say, yeah.
I of have a favorite character.
Mm-hmm.
Her name is Kay.
Um, she's a trans woman.
She's a drugist as she calls herself.
Mm-hmm.
She's based on several really strong,uh, trans women who I know and.
(13:46):
She really rises above so muchshit that's thrown at her.
And there's this part of the book where,you know, suddenly all her power is kind
of stripped away and she is trapped.
And the way that she overcomes it,I don't, yeah, I don't wanna give
(14:07):
away too much, but there is thisvery pivotal moment where she breaks
through and like takes back her power.
I'm getting like goosebumpsthinking about it.
I'm getting goosebumps too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like that.
That's definitely like when I sobbedthe most, writing it when she Yeah.
Rises above, you know, she transcendseverything that's happened to her and
(14:29):
she's like, I'm here and I am takingup space and I am unapologetically
myself and I've got people youknow, who are gonna support me.
Mm-hmm.
So that was very emotional for me.
And, you know, again, I'll own like, Iam not trans, but like just listening to,
(14:52):
you know, my sister's stories, I'm justso in awe of them and inspired by them.
And so, you know, I really hopethat they feel like they're getting
their flowers from case arc. Yeah.
I think all four of them reallyhave some, you know, their own
redemption arc in the book.
(15:15):
And I think for most of thecharacters, there's this insecurity
that they have to overcome.
Mm-hmm.
You know, the, you know, the gay, the gaymen in this book, like, they all have to
overcome this like, hurdle of not feelingseen, understood, like they're enough.
(15:37):
And they all deal with that indifferent ways and different.
Perhaps unhealthy ways and aremaybe reading each other for the
ways they're dealing with it.
Mm. But ultimately, you know, you know,they figure out like, we need each other
to like pull each other through the muck.
Yeah.
And there is, you know, there is aredemption moment that one of the
(16:01):
characters whose name is Steven, it'snot you, but I just like the name.
It's a good name.
Great.
It's a great name.
But he has this reconciliationmoment and the way mm-hmm.
The specific way in which she askssomeone for forgiveness also made me sob.
(16:21):
Mm. And like for, I've heard from a fewearly readers and that's also a moment
where they like, oh, I, I lost it.
Yeah.
And in, in that moment he,it's also a cultural reference.
Like Steven is Vietnamese andhe performs a service that like.
He's very specifically like a Vietnamesecustom of honoring someone, right?
(16:44):
Mm-hmm.
I'm trying not to be too specificand just, you know, to fill people
in like yes, Steven is Vietnamese.
Kay is, oh, he's a Vietnameseimmigrant, so he moved to the states
when he was a child, so mm-hmm.
He sounds American, buthas deep Vietnamese roots.
Kay is third generation JapaneseAmerican, and she had a very strong
(17:10):
relationship with her grandmother.
Mm-hmm.
Her oan, who, uh, livedthrough the intern.
Mm-hmm.
There's John, who is Korean American,and um, is an adoptee from Korea.
Mm-hmm.
So only, you know, is only known hisAmerican life and he is a child of a mixed
race couple, but neither of who are Asian.
(17:34):
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, which is.
Yeah.
A story I hear a lot about as well, and AJmuch like me, is Filipino, white, mixed.
So first generation right On one side.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So just to give some context, and thenthere are some, some other characters,
you know, of different Asian descentor there are two supporting characters
(17:56):
who are both Chinese, but one Mandarinspeaker, one Cantonese speaker.
Yeah.
There's an Indonesiancharacter who's hilarious.
Yeah,
I, I think I was trying to fill theclown car too much at some point.
So not everyone's represented inthis book, but I really just wanted
to focus on making real characters,you know, and represent where I can.
(18:19):
Yeah, I think even with what youshared with some of the characters
and how you have such a breadth ofdiversity, I think it goes to show
that you have tried to pull throughso many different lived experiences.
Into this book.
And when you're talking about thewhole portion around the Asian ego
(18:43):
just earlier and this, this turnaroundmoment, I, I felt it viscerally where
there is also this cultural prideand this cultural norm that we live
here in America as Asian folks, assometimes third space kids, right?
(19:04):
Mm-hmm.
Not of here or there and Right.
I think it just has so many layers of it.
And I'm just curious and just speakingto our community folks, our queer
Asian community listeners, in terms ofspecifically in writing this, even for
yourself, what was really important to getoff your chest or what wa what felt really
(19:31):
good to just finally get off your chest?
In terms of finalizing this book andputting together some of these story arcs?
Yeah,
I mean, I definitely get into,you know, American gay culture,
gay with capital G. Right.
And, um, the complexities of like howpeople who are your, like fellow oppressed
(19:58):
people can still be oppressing you.
Oh yeah.
That's, that's deep.
Yeah.
A very common experience forgay people of color or trans
people, trans people of color.
I mean, yeah, just, you know, whenyou've got more layers, there's
always, there's always gonna besome challenges there, right?
(20:20):
Yeah.
And, and that intertwined with trying todate, say, I mean, that's a minefield.
All right.
Yeah.
So there's a lot ofexperiences that I've had like.
From dating that I got to, Igot to air some grievances.
It felt very good.
So the people who blocked meon Grindr for calling out their
(20:43):
bullshit can read what I Yeah.
What they would have read.
Yeah.
Had they not blocked me.
So that's in there.
Good.
There's also, you know,like AJ and John mm-hmm.
Have a whole conversationabout like imposter syndrome.
Right.
Like, not feeling Asian enough at times.
I feel very self-conscioussometimes because my father didn't
(21:07):
Yeah.
Teach me his language and
I,
I definitely embrace my Filipinoculture and I'm still learning
about it and I grew up with someof it, but, you know, I didn't have
the sort of full immersion that
Yeah.
Maybe other kids had growing up.
And so I always feel a littlelike I. Can I come to barbecue?
(21:27):
You know, like
Yeah.
Yeah.
The need to censor yourself.
Yeah.
And the need to kind of reflecton yourself all the time.
Yeah.
And doubt yourself.
Question yourself.
Mm-hmm.
And just, you know, I, I do include alot of just microaggressions that we
experience on the daily and how thoselittle tiny things really add, add up.
(21:52):
They add up and then mm-hmm.
They kind of make you go crazy.
And there's, you know, there are afew scenes where like, oh, there are
definitely a lot of scenes of eating.
Right.
I mean, that's, yeah.
What we do.
And there's like, it's our culture there.
A lot of different Asianfoods featured in this book.
Let me tell you.
It was really fun doing the research.
'cause you know, I hadto eat it to get into it.
(22:13):
Okay.
But there's also like momentswhen they're talking about
mm-hmm.
Their lived experiences ina sort of casual way, but
like they get kind of Yeah.
Really into it and just talkingabout how that's our normal, right.
And like one of the charactersis like, oh my God, I'm so tired
of like, talking about this.
Like, I feel like we talk about
(22:34):
Yeah.
How we're Asian and gay all thetime, and like, why do we have
to talk about this all the time?
And like Yeah.
Other characters being like, yeah,because we can't talk about it with
anyone else and if we don't talk aboutall we're gonna lose our minds, you know?
Mm-hmm.
So it's like trying to find this balance.
Right.
I feel like, yeah.
This is a common thread that I feel,and like people I talk to have felt
(22:56):
of like, it's like a, uh, an everpresent dissecting of experience.
Yeah.
That can really wear you out.
So needed.
It's almost like it's needed.
It's needed.
Yeah.
This duality.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Duality.
And the really healing part of it, I think
(23:18):
Yeah.
Is when we are able totogether laugh about it.
Yes.
There's a lot of that in the book,and that is like very healing to me
to like find these moments of joy inwhich we're all, yeah, this is a crazy
situation that we're living through.
And LOL.
Yeah.
(23:39):
So glad you you're seeingthis, you know, like
Yeah.
It's like that moment, you know?
I don't know, for, for New York CityERs, like I, I used to live in New
York and there's always a moment onthe subway where some crazy shit's
happening and you have to look ata stranger and be like, looks like
every day you are seeing this, right?
Like this is actually occurring.
(23:59):
Yeah.
This hazmat situation that's unfolding.
Yeah.
So.
I feel like there's a lot of that featured
craziest scene in New York Subway for you.
Oh my God.
My craziest subway moment.
I mean, wow.
That's, I mean, thereare categories, right?
Yeah.
This
is, this one isn't so gross, butjust the funniest one that pops
(24:22):
right into my mind is like, you know,it's winter, it was very packed,
subway, car rush hour, whatever.
And this old lady like is likesqueezing her way into the car and
just literally sits on my lap, likeit's riding the subway in my lap.
(24:43):
And I was just so shocked.
Yeah.
I mean, I would've gotten upper,but like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And just my jaw dropped and Ilike turned to this woman next
to me and her jaw dropped.
And were looking at each other.
We're both like happening and yeah, she,she rode my lap for one express stop.
Oh no.
She,
(25:03):
she seemed, you know, clean.
So that,
yeah.
That was a
blessing.
Yeah.
I feel like there's always somethinghappening to a point where you're
sometimes like so numb to it.
You're like, okay, well we've seen it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I think, uh, recently, you know what?
(25:25):
I was in a subway car where theyhad a whole magic show once.
Ooh.
Ooh.
That was fun.
Yeah.
They had a whole, theyhad a whole shopping cart.
Did they make the smell disappear?
Yes.
They had animals poppingout of left and right.
Oh my gosh.
And people were like animals.
Yeah.
Oh no.
But it was a shopping car and, uh,everyone thought this person was
(25:48):
just homeless and they're like,whatever, you know, and give him space.
And he just startedbusting with magic tricks.
Okay.
I was like.
Yes.
Entertaining.
Yeah.
I, I feel like that's whathumanizes us and I think you
do so beautifully in your book.
Mm-hmm.
And I think this is where alsothe joy piece goes into it, right?
(26:08):
Of this ability to be in the problem,but finally take a step back and then to
be able to reflect and to laugh at it,I feel like is a, this big culminated
journey towards the end, you know?
And this beauty of joy as relinquishing,as also this release of all this tension
(26:37):
and all this stuff that we've beencarrying, I think is such a beautiful
part of, to your point, expression.
And I think.
It's so important, especially inthis day and age where beyond the
confines of, you know, necessarilymicroaggressions for queer Asian
community, but for the larger world,even, like what is happening right now.
Right.
But I, I, I feel that this is so muchmore needed as a reminder more than
(27:02):
ever now, of this joy, of this release,of this reminder that we are human.
That there is maybe another side ofthis, that we're just going through it.
And that this joy is alsosomething that we all share.
(27:22):
That we all understand.
That we all experience, yeah.
That bring us also together.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And I feel like, you know, you're rightwhen you're able to release, right.
We're, we address it, we can let it go.
And like when we strip everythingaway, we're just people.
(27:43):
Right.
Yes.
And I think that's the biggestpiece that we struggle with is like,
yeah.
Asking everyone else like,can you just look at me like
another person and allow me to be
mm-hmm.
Weird and imperfect andhave feelings and Yeah.
(28:06):
And that we're all deserving
of joy.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know you and I have talked a lotabout like joy as liberation, right?
Mm-hmm.
Joy as, as healing and joy as community.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We need that.
We need, we need hope, right?
(28:26):
We need, oh yeah.
We need laughter and, and we need sexand we need good food and we need Yeah.
You know, like so many things tokeep us going here because Yeah.
It's tough times.
Tough times.
It's real, real right
now.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it's, it's, but somethingabout joy is so, it, it, the thing
(28:52):
that's so beautiful about it isthere's a lightness around it.
Right.
There's a lightness around it.
There's a simplicity to it.
Right.
Which I think is so importantbecause I think we're sometimes
so theoretical with what we'retrying to do in this world, right.
Whether it's when it's implementingpolicy or debating certain things
(29:15):
with one another that we try so hardgetting into the head and imagining
as if us being in our heads issomehow gonna be liberatory being, you
know, so revolutionary for everyone.
But the beautiful part I, I, Ifind about joy is how simple it
(29:35):
is to just sit with, you know.
It doesn't necessarily mean that joy isnecessarily accepting everything, but it's
almost this lightness, this feeling oflightness that we allow to wash ourselves
with in being present in the moment.
You know?
And I think the challenge is, youknow, it's not necessarily saying
(29:58):
this is exactly the solution.
This is exactly, you know, everything'sperfect by any means, but it is
allowing ourselves to breathe,allowing ourselves to be present,
allowing ourselves to slow down.
Joy is just also notefficient by any means, right?
In the context of likework and all this stuff.
(30:20):
There's something about itthat I think is so beautiful.
And you know what's so fascinating?
Um, I forget what I was listening to.
Um, if it was a YouTube videoor something like a TikTok.
But it was just talking about thisbeauty of animals, dogs, for example,
and that dogs also express joy and thatjoy is such an innate part of Right.
(30:43):
Animals in the ocean play around andcreate space to play and to create space
to enjoy and if so many creatures aredoing so that there must be innately a
value to it, intrinsic to so many of us.
Then I think in this world that'sso focused on like efficiency,
productivity, um, output, capital,you name it, joy is almost this like
(31:11):
counter-argument against it, right?
That to me it feels soliberatory in itself.
Yes.
Yeah.
I mean, question for you islike, what is joy to you?
Ooh.
Joy to me, I think is, I mean, itcan be a lot of things, but I think
(31:36):
acceptance can be really joyful.
Like, just being like, okay, it's not,this is not perfect and that's okay.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm gonna be
happy about it.
Like, I'm going to, I'm gonnabe proud of trying my best,
(32:02):
even if it's not Yeah, exactly.
Perfect.
Or what I hoped it would be.
And I think I'm, I think I feelthat way about this book, right.
Where it's like, it's not perfect,but I, I hope I did my, my very best.
Right.
And are there things that would change?
(32:22):
Yeah.
But I, it's okay.
You know?
Yeah.
Um, and I hope that translatesand I hope people find joy in it.
Yeah.
I think that's a challengeof being a creative, right?
Where you keep dissecting, you dissect,dissect, dissect your work, and I mean,
the process is enjoyable, but thereis this interesting nature where it's
(32:48):
like this tale of, I'm trying to figureout how to draw the analogy to it.
I was thinking narcissist, right?
The Greek God who was justlike staring into this like
reflection and all this stuff.
Mm-hmm.
That it starts to become, this, narcissismisn't necessarily the right word.
It's a little bit tothat degree obsession.
Obsession, overindulgence,right within the craft.
(33:10):
Right.
That it almost starts to become likethis cyclical thing that we almost,
to your point, have to figure out,you know, just when to leave it.
Mm-hmm.
When to put it down and.
Being open to just accepting the output.
I think, I mean, looking at yourwhole repertoire of everything,
(33:31):
I, I feel like you put your heartand soul on every project you do.
Um, everything is also so polished, butas a part of it, um, I mean in context to
perfectionism and all of this, has thisbook taught you anything about yourself?
Yeah.
I mean, I, I, I have tried for a verylong time to accept that I'm not perfect.
(33:58):
Yeah.
And that can be hard.
And I think
mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I do put a lot of my heart into mywork, my, my very big Pisces heart.
But things that I've learnedfrom this book, I think.
I'll share a little bit of like somethingthat I shared in, in the afterward, right.
(34:24):
Which is mm-hmm.
Some people are gonna readthis book and feel like, oh my
God, you slayed, you got it.
You know, this is totally the experience.
And some people are gonna read thisand be like, no, that's not me.
That's not who I am.
Like,
yeah.
And they're both right.
(34:44):
You know, they're both right.
Mm-hmm.
And it's both valid and, yeah.
So this book had taught meto let go of a lot of things.
Mm. I think in healthy ways.
Like, I journal every night.
I write down all, you know, things happenin the day, but my feelings especially,
(35:05):
and I feel like it helps me sleep better.
Like it's, it's like a, a minidose of letting go of like.
You wrote it down, there'snothing you can do about anything.
Yeah.
Now it's time for bed.
And I feel like, yeah, this is the macroversion of that where it's like, yeah,
I'm not saying I'm over everything that Iwrote about, but I put it down, you know?
(35:29):
And it's like, yep, there it is.
Maybe someone's got some ideas,you know, can help me out.
Yeah.
Help each other out.
So there's maybe letting goof, of some of the trauma that
I've experienced in my life.
And I think the book ends on a hopefulnote of, of reaching for the future.
(35:57):
Right.
Which is something that I am,I'm still learning how to do.
I have a very hard time lettingthings go, like from my past.
And so I feel like thebook really promotes.
Leaning into something new, whetherthat's chosen family, whether that's
trying something in a different way orletting someone else carry you for a bit.
(36:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, I think we all need that tobe able to say, I, I mean, you were
talking about Asian pride before and like
mm-hmm.
Um, I do think we have a lotof pride and it's incredible.
But also I feel like there'san Asian experience of like,
I cannot show weakness.
I mm-hmm.
I cannot be a burden I can never ask for.
(36:47):
Mm-hmm.
Things that I need.
I have to suffer in silence and figureit out and be a good, insert the blank.
Yeah.
Be a good child, partner,employee, friend.
Friend.
Yeah.
Student, you name it.
It's like, okay, Excel.
(37:08):
Right.
And that's how.
How you'll be fulfilled in thatand that will fulfill your, your
duty and commitment to Yeah.
Your community.
Mm-hmm.
Because there is, I mean,family is very important Right.
In, in Asian culture and
Yeah.
And I, I think a lot of thecharacters in this book have been
(37:28):
just inherited from their familiesand have created this family.
And I'm kind of like on a tangentnow, but like, no, keep going.
Yeah.
I, but I think they all in theirway experienced some form of that.
Right.
I, I'm like, mm-hmm.
I have to be strong and I can'tcrack or it's all gonna come down.
(37:49):
And, and it does, like, it does fallapart for them because they're not
all coming, coming to each other.
Their 100% authentic selves.
And that's, that's the mis right?
That's the swing in the mis.
And then things fall apart.
And the only way they're goingto be able to come together.
(38:10):
Is to like,
yeah,
this is who I really am and I'mflawed and I need your help.
Like that's the only way we'regoing to make it is if we really
rely on each other and own, yeah.
Who we are in like three dimensionalway and not who we pretend to be.
(38:33):
So bringing your authentic game
Yeah.
I think is so key toreally moving forward.
Yeah.
What I'd love to know, and also forlisteners, what are some ways that you've
(38:53):
been able to be more authentic, showup more authentically, or even to your
point, stop this loop, this perfectionistloop, this cycle of suffering alone.
Is there anything that you've.
Done reflected on, or ways that you'vebeen able to stop that process from
just keep happening again and justshowing up to your point, authentic?
(39:17):
Yeah, I think, I think I, I'm, I'mstarting to be better about voicing
when I'm not happy about something.
I love that.
I think there's a lot of likeswallowing the bitterness.
Like, I didn't like that,but I'm going to, yeah, okay.
I'm just gonna like move on.
And it's like, well actually weneed to talk about that, you know?
(39:38):
And I think I have a fear sometimes I'llgo, like, if I talk about something I'm
not happy about, maybe someone else isnot gonna like that and then they're
gonna distance themselves from me orlike, maybe they're not gonna understand
and they're gonna, I get their feelingshurt and I don't wanna hurt their
feelings, so I'm not gonna say anything.
And you know, those are real feelingsand I. We just gotta do the work.
(40:04):
Right?
It's like there's gonna be a littlemessy maybe, but it's not, it's not
going to get better by not addressing it.
Yeah.
So I'm trying, I'm tryingto be better about that.
Yeah.
That it brings up for me, there arethe so many words also in different
Asian languages that, to your point,swallowing the bitterness, right?
(40:26):
Yes.
Gaman in Japanese is all aboutlike this, this tenseness, you hold
through difficult situations, right?
They have another word is similarin Korean Han is, is like spirit.
This indestructible spirit in the for faceof adversity, but also those are learned
(40:46):
behaviors to children get through it.
Right?
Thicken up that, I don't think inEnglish, there's such a word similar akin
to it, but in Asian languages, right?
Whenever these words are spoken, gaman.
Like, all these kids understand, okay,time to toughen up, put your shield on.
Mm-hmm.
Get through it.
(41:07):
That to your point, I think becomessuch a ingrained part of why it's
so hard sometimes just to let gobe authentic to your point, be
messy, or even to show discontent.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I think that's so interesting how yes.
Some, some cultures havelike a word to describe it.
(41:29):
And I mean, since you brought upthe Japanese word, I mean, something
I like to think about is more likethe Japanese concept of zen, right?
And like,
I
love the art of Kintsugi, right?
Where it's like mm-hmm.
Something's broken.
Oh yeah, yeah.
And then it's put back togetherwith like golds, right?
(41:50):
And then it's even stronger.
And I think that's thebetter representation of.
The human spirit, right.
Where it's like mm-hmm.
It's go, things are going to break.
Yeah.
We're not built to be indestructible.
Like, we're actually not gods.
Um, maybe we have a piece ofthe divine, but like, we're
going to crack at some point.
And it's like,
(42:11):
yeah.
Are, are you going to put thingsback together, together and, and
become even stronger and morebeautiful from that breakage?
Yeah.
Or are you gonna let it go to pieces?
You know, I think, yeah, that'swhat we're all asked to do, I think.
Yeah.
We're finding the beauty and the mess.
(42:32):
Beauty and the fractures.
Yeah.
And the imperfections.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
It's such a, it's such a beautifulart because there's something to
it that's just so organic, right?
Mm-hmm.
The whole concept of you have this thingbreak and you bring it together, but even
the fractures and the fissures, right.
That if you're just brushingon the gold foil, you can't
(42:53):
recreate that even if you tried.
Yeah.
You know?
And, and this beauty of it is,I, I think it's just something.
So I think it's very cathartic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and, and to your point, I, Ithink analogy I heard was also our
hearts break, so it can grow bigger.
(43:13):
Mm.
Yeah.
I
love that.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But this notion of breaking is so.
Instrumental as a part of lifelived experiences, nature,
the cycle of death, rebirth.
Mm, yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
(43:34):
Yeah.
I, I think overall, just takinga step back, I think just seeing
from my perspective as a friend,as a peer and seeing you work on
this project so tirelessly andjust pouring your heart and soul.
Um, one, I think readers are, arelisteners are in for a treat when they
(43:55):
get a hold of the book and take a peekand take a listen with their eyes and
their heart and soul of the pages andjust seeing what you've poured into it.
The callis hours, not only researchand also other experiences, but
just diving into this place that.
(44:16):
You know, at one point, uh, we're goingthrough microaggressions, thousands of
paper cuts, this pain, and you've somehowcreated this beautiful manifestation,
this story intertwining all thesecharacters in such a beautiful way.
And I, I'm just so, I'm so appreciative.
One, but also two, just so happy for youto be able to put this out into the world.
(44:40):
And I think it's just also so beautiful.
Now we have the tools to then for thenext generation of all these other
queer Asians, Asians have then thislegacy and all these shared experiences
to build off and to you not feelalone as a part of their experiences.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I mean, I, I say it in the,in the afterward, like, we just
(45:03):
need more, you know, like I, mm-hmm.
I want, I want this to inspirepeople to write their own.
Stories and experiences, you know?
Yeah.
'cause it, I mean, we just can'tbe condensed into one book.
Yeah.
That's not enough, so.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I hope, I hope people take thebaton and, and run further with it.
(45:29):
Yes.
Yes.
And as we're starting to gettowards the end of the podcast,
few quick questions for you.
Uh, what is one thing you want listenersto be taking away from this episode?
I mean, we,
we talked about joy a lot, and Ithink, I think that's a good one.
(45:50):
You know, um, I, I love having, or loveis kinda a, let's use a different word.
I need there to be something onmy calendar to look forward to.
Mm. A friend, a friend saidthis to me like years and years
ago, and I have held onto it.
Like, it's really important I think to.
(46:10):
Have something, some kind oflight at the end of the tunnel.
Yeah.
Thing, whether it's like a smalltreat or like a big trip or something.
Yeah.
So that, and you know, andwe talked a lot about chosen
family, I think it is important.
Mm-hmm.
Now more than ever in our lives thatwe are showing up for each other.
(46:32):
Mm-hmm.
I think activism can have many faces andone of them is just taking care of the
people in your community and your lifeand holding down your corner of the world.
Mm-hmm.
And not just simple as like, oh, myfriend is sick, I'm going to Yeah.
Start a meal train for them.
(46:54):
Or My friend lost their job, I'mgonna like help them network.
I mean, just,
yeah.
Seemingly small things like thiscan really make a difference
in someone's life and.
Yeah.
When, you know, when you'rehelping even one person, you're,
you're helping your community.
So yeah.
The value of communal care.
(47:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Totally mutual aid.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I mean, weneed to lean into that.
Yeah.
And what other projectsdo you have coming up?
Anything you're able to share?
Yeah.
I am working on a middle gradegraphic novel, which is called Pals.
(47:35):
And it's about twofriends who are pen pals.
And it's inspired by, um, my friendship,uh, with my best friend Laura.
We became pen pals when I think I wasmaybe in sixth grade and she was in
seventh grade, something like that.
And we really saw each otherthrough some middle school horrors.
(47:59):
You know, I think it'sa very sweet book and.
It was just so important tohave that like person in my life
who is like third party, right?
This is like pre therapy, right?
It's just someone that Icould write a letter to.
I mean, this is like the ninetiestoo, so I'm like writing this
girl like gel pen on paper.
(48:22):
You know?
This gel pen!
Hello.
How are you?
Sakura pens?
Yes!
Oh my God.
I love a, a fancy pen.
You know, and we would writeeach other letters of support
and like complain about things.
'cause it's like, oh, this persondoesn't know anyone in my life,
so I can say whatever I want.
You know?
(48:42):
And that was like such a huge relief.
And I mean, we were pen pals likethrough our entire adolescence,
you know, and to becoming adults.
And now we just talk on the phone.
Every now and then we'll findeach other a little letter.
But anyway, I. Yeah, it's, it's just abeautiful story of like two best friends
(49:03):
who come from very different backgrounds,writing each other, you know, saving
each other through pen and paper.
So I'm wrapping up theillustrations for that.
Oh,
that's so exciting.
Yes.
And I co-authored with, I don't knowif I mentioned that, coauthored with
mm-hmm.
And Laura Robbins.
(49:23):
Laura is the person whoI dedicated flame to.
Yeah.
So, yeah, she's my real life viol.
So yeah, stay tuned that it comes out,um, next year still working on the art.
Exciting.
Yeah.
Um, that's, that's, that's so special.
And I feel like in this dayand age when so much of.
(49:46):
Writing is just AIdriven and generated Oh.
And all this stuff.
I, I, I feel like the, the notion ofthis exchange, this beautiful back and
forth, um, when I was in middle school,I don't know if you had this, but we had
notebooks that we passed around and backand forth between you and your friend.
(50:08):
And each friend had a notebook.
So throughout the year I would have likefour or five notebooks in circulation
back and forth, and my friends and I wouldbasically write or even draw and, and
we basically traded it back and forth.
And it was this, this process of,sometimes it was a poem, sometimes it was
drawing, sometimes it's just like a longrant about someone else or the world.
(50:32):
Yes.
And, and, and, and it is justthis beautiful notion of just
like anything goes and, and.
Just putting out whatever'sin your heart, mind, and soul.
And, and it didn't have to be so perfect.
So all this stuff, you know?
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
Do you still have them?
Um, I, I have 'em likein my, like mom's Yeah.
(50:56):
Attic back in LA mode.
Oh yeah.
It's like pages and pages.
I was like, I had way too much time.
You had some things to say.
Yeah, I had some things to say.
And then that was way before, um,like blog spot came out or in Zenga.
And then when Zenga came out, then we allshifted to just doing like personal blogs.
(51:18):
But I was way before,
there was no pun say youroriginal podcast, you know?
Oh yeah.
The written pod.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was so, it was so creative.
You know, it was like I would meet, likewe would meet up and in passing in school,
you'd only have a little bit of time.
You couldn't write in it during class.
Then you, you know, switch the notebook.
(51:39):
Sometimes people are writing it duringclass, and then it just looks like
you're taking notes after the class.
You just like hand it, trade it off.
And it became this thing where it was justlike over time and then it was just a set
of, you know, you and a friend would havea notebook, but they would also have a
notebook between a few of their friends.
And it was just like this wholecirculation of, and it was the, you know,
(52:00):
the, the very simple spiral notebookswith like, maybe like a hundred pages
or something very thin, you know?
And anything goes free for all.
You could use a pen,you could use a Sharpie.
Love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's just the power of pen pals.
I'm just curious, where, um,did you first connect and what
(52:22):
connected you into pen paling?
We met at a summer camp.
It was actually a Christian summer camp.
Oh.
Even though I was, I was raisedCatholic, but like we would go.
Visit friends.
That's a lot more to unpack on the, there.
It has layers.
We, my family would go visit friendsin Pennsylvania and then Yeah,
(52:42):
they, they all would just like dropall of us bids off at this camp.
Mm-hmm.
And they would have time to hang out.
And so we met in line at the tradingpost and like the, the connection was
just, and how old were you at the time?
I mean, I think I was like 12.
Maybe she was 13, you know.
(53:03):
Yeah.
So I feel like we bonded overCanty, which tracks, right.
I mean that, yeah.
My sweet tooth is whatleads me through this world.
And just, we would just laugh.
Right.
And there was another, therewas like a counselor that we
were kind of friends with also.
So like the three of us Yeah.
(53:24):
Had this little like.
Peaky click, I guess.
And we were just alwaysclowning around and
Yeah.
Yeah.
We treated a ation.
And then I got a letter in themail and I was like, Ooh, fun.
You know?
That's, and we just...
yeah
Just kept, kept going.
I mean, we, there are hundreds of letters.
(53:45):
Yeah.
It's, it's amazing.
And we would draw each other thingswe would like, cut out, like comic
strips to mail to each other.
And then we got into like recordingcassette tapes for each other.
So, and it wasn't just, oh, likewe, it was kind of a mix, right?
Like, we record music's cool,but we'd also, like, we would
(54:05):
read to each other from books.
We would read each other's letters,like, look best of like the hits.
Right.
We would write our own spoof songs andlike sing spoof songs to each other.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was like a whole, um, I hopeyou, I hope you saved those.
Yeah.
I. I think I have some, but you know, ascassettes get so warped over time mm-hmm.
(54:27):
I, I have, I think I have a few, but,um, I don't know if all of them made it.
Hmm.
Yeah.
But yeah, I should unearth thoseand I feel like I tried to listen
when I was writing the script.
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
Yeah.
Um, favorite candy?
Ooh.
(54:48):
I mean...
What's favorite lately?
Yeah.
I'm like, as a kid, mypalette has changed.
Like, I, I could like house a box of nerdsas a kid and like, now I'm like, oh girl.
Oh no.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm, I'm a chocolatetheme, so like, almost anything
chocolate, I'm with you.
(55:08):
So, you know, just like a nice, rich.
Dark bar of chocolate.
Yeah.
Or if you like get some of thoselike Asian treats from the market,
like, oh my god, what are those?
Like the little like mushrooms,like Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
With the little animals on it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
With like little wer.
(55:30):
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Those are, I can't, I havedeep double box, right?
You can't, yeah.
Stop eating those, you know, a chocolatecovered gummy, I'm not mad about.
Yeah.
My partner and I were recently in Japanand Japanese candies, another tier,
(55:50):
another level, and they had all thesegummies that had different textures on
it, and so they had ones that were like.
Almost like a crinkly texture.
Okay.
And it wasn't like a sour powder thatyou'd normally have in the States, but
they had one that was like a crinklytexture, another one that would have a
(56:10):
much smoother texture, but it was morelike gummy, but it was like a taffy gummy,
and it was all about the mouth feel.
Oh, sure.
And they were alldifferent types of gummies.
And I was just like,this is like phenomenal.
I'm imagining like the tripe of mm-hmm.
Gummies.
The sort of melt feelwe're talking about here.
(56:30):
Like Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like weird crevices and stuff.
Okay.
Wow.
All right.
Down to a science, you know, theJapanese people are just like, of course.
Yeah.
Very detailed.
Yes.
Yes.
But that is really good.
Um, yeah.
And I think lately I've been reallyobsessed with, um, my partner
loves to get the Trader Joe.
(56:52):
Um.
Super sour gummies.
Yeah, the super sour, uh, Scandinavianswimmers and just literally
a bag lasts like 30 minutes.
That's,
that's something my partner would be into.
They would be all over that.
Yeah.
Any kinda like sour gummy thing?
Oh yeah.
And literally it was just like, we openthe bag like after the grocery store and
(57:16):
then half of it's gone on the train ride.
Yeah.
Bye.
Yeah.
And then we'll start cooking a mealand then another quarter's gone.
And then by the time we start eatingdinner, I don't know what happened.
Oh no.
But there's also so funny, it'slike a whole, like a whole subset
of the internet, but they have likefive flavors in it and people have
(57:37):
broken down each bag and they'relike, why is only five raspberries?
And like.
30, 50 of these like red stars andall these people in like the Trader
Joe, Reddit, and just open up thebag and just do a layout of it.
Love that.
And they're like, thisis an awful conspiracy.
I
love that.
That's the kinda like twistedthing that I am here for.
(58:01):
You know what I mean?
Where it's like I demand Yeah.
Equity in my Canty bag.
Yeah.
With your gummy.
Yeah.
My palate deserves tohave a leveled experience.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
What if you open a bag of Skittlesand you only felt like That's right.
You know what if therewere only like 10 Yeah.
(58:24):
Red and like, yeah.
And you have like, like 30 lemons.
Yeah.
That's not right.
That's not
right.
Or like one pink starburst and thenall the rest were like, yeah, lime.
Oh, that's rude orange.
Yeah.
That's rude.
Yeah.
Well, that's good.
Okay.
And then last question, oractually last two questions.
(58:46):
Yeah.
Is there something that'sbringing you joy lately?
I mean, I love cooking.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe
I don't, I don't remember how I answeredthis on the other episodes, but like,
just having the time to like cook.
Yeah.
Real meals again, it feels good.
And mm-hmm.
I've been trying, um, actually didn'tcook last week 'cause I was traveling,
(59:09):
so now I'm like trying to reach back.
But yeah, you know, I, I've got somebangers that I like and then I like to
like, try to make something new every
now and then.
Best dish so far?
Or like, what's the dish of the season?
Ooh, the, or I don't know how to say it.
Yes, French.
(59:31):
Uh, what was amazing, I did thissort of like miso salmon and
green bean, like sheet pan meal.
I love a sheet pair.
Bake.
Ooh.
You know, where it's like we're justhere for the flavor and the roasting like
efficient too.
Yeah.
'cause it's like, you know, I mean, Iwanna cook and also it's like, I mean, a
(59:52):
girl's got stuff to do, so I can't justbe, I, I can be cooking like half the day,
but every now and then I will go all in.
Like, I, I did spend like an entire daymaking maima curry from scratch and Wow.
When, when that happens, I mean, it is,I wanna cry, you know, like I, I was able
to spend a very long time in Thailand twoyears ago, and I, I took a cooking class,
(01:00:18):
like on the side and like, yeah, yeah.
Maman Curry was like, I was like,I can't believe I made this.
So like, yeah, that's my go-tothing to make from there.
Yeah.
Good.
It's very, there's a, there's somethingin the sweetness, the creaminess.
The tenderness, themeatiness, it just heals you.
(01:00:43):
Everything.
It's everything.
The cashier line.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
And then a little bit sour.
Yep, yep, yep.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Just everything.
And then sometimes they put thetamarind or, oh, it's like, yeah.
Tamarind a little bit.
Yeah.
Tamarind concentrate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Necessary.
Oh, yeah.
Like
that was, you gotta go cook now.
Yeah.
(01:01:03):
Yes.
And then, um, how can people find you ifthey want to learn more about your work?
Yeah.
Where are you at nowadays?
I'm still on the gram.
I'm still on Instagram.
Yeah.
At Mike Corrado.
I don't know why I had to make life sohard for myself, but Mike underscore
Corrado, that's like the, the long line.
(01:01:25):
Yeah.
You know, I'm usually,I'm usually on there.
Um mm-hmm.
Sometimes I'm on TikTok atmy Corrado, it's C-U-R-A-T-M.
That's it.
A goodbye Twitter slash x. Yeah.
Never again.
And, um, yeah, I'm, I'm likenot really doing anything else.
I guess I, I guess I technicallyam on threads, but, Hmm.
(01:01:47):
Have you liked it?
I'm kind of, I don't really spendtime, I mean, I, I'll just like
spend a few minute, you know,looking at some friends' stories.
Yeah.
And that's kind of on Instagramand that's kind of all I wanna
do on social media these days.
Yeah.
'cause I don't know, I justneed to do other things.
(01:02:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I, I feel the same way.
I think their issue with threadswas they really pushed for brands
to have a presence and Yeah.
Do you care if, you know, Xbrand has a stance on something?
I'm like, I really.
No.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I just wanna see like my friends andpeople who inspire me, like yeah.
(01:02:33):
What are
actual
people up to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, I'm, I'm usually just, juston there like talking about book stuff,
so.
Nice.
And art.
Yeah.
And your book tour, where areyou posting most of that update?
Is it gonna be on Instagram?
It will be on Instagram and probablyon my website, which is mike rado.com.
(01:02:55):
And I am gonna be in NewYork for like whole week.
Mm-hmm.
Big book release is at,you'll need books on June 3rd.
Yay.
And I'm gonna be at the Museum of Chinesein America on the fifth, and then I'm
gonna be in la Long Beach, San Francisco,Berkeley, Seattle DC Boston, Providence.
(01:03:18):
Yes.
Yeah.
So, you know, I need toget to the West Coast.
Big concentration of Gaysians.
Good luck.
You gotta represent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll definitely be posting stuff there andyou know, other, other events to follow.
Ooh, I'm gonna be at FlameCon this summer, which is fun.
It's like a gay comic bookfestival in New York City.
(01:03:39):
Ooh.
Every August.
Um, nice.
So if you like to nerdout like that, it's cute.
Yeah.
I enjoy it.
That's awesome.
And for those listening, ifyou want to find out more,
take a look at our show notes.
And if you've enjoyed this podcastwith Mike, leave us a rating review,
(01:04:02):
tell us what your thoughts were.
And definitely highly recommendchecking out Gaysians when it
is released later this year.
And.
You'll definitely seeme with my copy of it.
I'm just so excited for Mike'supcoming book and just including
us as a part of his story.
(01:04:24):
Um, if you wanna follow us, you cancheck us out on social media at Yellow
Glitter PD on social, and then checkout our website for the rest of our show
notes, transcripts and everything else.
Uh, with that, we are nowwrapping up our episode.
Just so grateful for Mikefor stopping by again and for
(01:04:46):
gracing us with his presence.
Oh, thank you.
Anytime, Steven.
I love some Yellow Glitter.
Make sparkle.
Make it sparkle.
Well, thank you so much for comingand for listeners, thank you for
listening and hope your day can be abit more sparkly, glitzy, and glammy.
(01:05:06):
Thank you.
I love the art of Kintsugi, right?
Where it's like something'sbroken and then it's put back
together with gold, right?
And then it's even stronger,and I think that's a better
representation of the human spirit.
Things are going to break.
We're not built to be indestructible,like we're actually not gods.
(00:24):
Um, maybe we have a piece ofthe divine, but like we're
going to crack at some point.
And it's like, are you going to put thingsback together and become even stronger
and more beautiful from that breakage?
Or are you gonna let it go to business?
(01:00):
Hello everyone.
My name is Steven Wakabayashi, andyou're listening to Yellow Glitter
Perspectives from Queer Asian creativesand Change Makers Making an Impact.
This episode, we're joined by our favoriteguest, Mike Curato, who's joining us
again showcasing his upcoming book launch.
Hi, I'm back.
(01:22):
We're so excited to haveyou and for the audience.
Mike is an author illustrator, booksfor Children, teens and Adults.
He's best known for his little ElliotPicture book series and his young
adult graphic novel Flamer, which wasreleased to critical acclaim and receives
several honors, including the 2020Lambda Literary Award for L-G-B-T-Q,
(01:44):
young Adult, the 2021 Massachusetts BookAward for Young Adult, and was listed
as one of NPR R'S best books of 2020.
Flamer also has the distinction of beingone of the most banned and challenge
books in the United States, and Mike hasbecome a fierce advocate of Free Speech.
Gaysians is his adult graphic noveldebut in which we're gonna talk
(02:07):
a little bit more about today.
Yes.
Let's get it.
Yes!
So last time we talked was almosta year ago when you were in
the thick of it with this book.
You were going through many rounds ofedits and revisions and how does it
(02:28):
feel now to be on the other end of it?
Oh my
gosh.
I mean, I got my social life backkind of, so that was welcome.
I mean, I was, yeah, I was going throughrevisions, but like going through it in
general, like trying to finish this thing,I mean, I was, I was pulling, you know,
like double, triple shift, you know, onthe daily for an unhealthy amount of time.
(02:51):
So I think
it paid off what was, what was causingall that time and all that rumination.
You know, I mean, this book hastaken me a few years to make.
I wrote it several years ago and thensold it, and there was a lot of mm-hmm.
You know, stop and go working on otherprojects, but it's just so detailed.
(03:12):
Like the art is so detailed and socondensed, you know, like flame, maybe you
get like three or four panels on a page.
This is like a larger page size and like,you know, maybe you've got eight panels
on a page, you know, and, and thesecharacters are maybe more realistically
(03:32):
rendered than Flamer, which kind ofleans more cartoony because I wanted
them to look like real people and to likereally look like the people who they are
representing hashtag Asian representation.
So, yes, that was, that was the goal.
And so it just, it just took avery long time to illustrate.
(03:55):
Yeah.
And for the audience, do you wanna sharea little bit about what is the book?
What is it about?
Yes, totally.
So the book is about four friendswho live in Seattle in 2003.
And one of them has just movedout there and is a little gaybie,
(04:16):
early twenties, a little aj and hedoesn't know his ass from his elbow
and has come out fairly recently.
And these three Gaysians take himunder their wing and it's, you know,
it's a book about chosen family.
They have their own little group.
They call themselves the Boy Luck Club,you know, and they're, I think it's, it's
(04:41):
important to center gay Asian storiesbecause it's not something we see.
I mean, hardly at all.
Right?
Yep.
And to feature like an allga cast a character big deal.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And to show like, we're not amonolith, like we're often stereotyped.
(05:04):
And you know, I kind of used some ofthose stereotypes as like an opener maybe.
And then really tried toflesh out real human beings.
You know, these are really individualpeople who I, I think of them
as my own friends and they arepartially based on my own friends.
I, I came out when I waslike, oh my God, I dunno.
(05:27):
21, 22. And then I graduatedcollege and I moved to Seattle.
The same thing happened to me, like abunch of people took me under their wing
and meeting other gay Asian people for thefirst time and making friends with them.
It was like I was being fullyseen in a three dimension away
for the first time in my life.
(05:48):
And there was a lot shortcutsto understanding each other.
Right.
I didn't have to explain certain thingsto them, like they just got it right away.
Yeah.
And so this group of friends, youknow, they're, they're just trying
to do their best in an imperfectworld who doesn't see them.
(06:10):
But the important thing is that theysee each other and support each other.
And even that can be a struggle, right.
I mean, they mm-hmm.
They ultimately come up against somemajor challenges in their relationships,
and it's kind of up to them right.
To mm-hmm.
Hold onto this familythat they've created.
And those are all very real thingsthat I know I've experienced
(06:32):
and others have experienced.
So.
And you know, it's, I like to thinkit's, yes, there's drama, there's
comedy, there's sex, there's drag.
Yeah.
You know, she has it all.
So you mentioned it'staken a while to Right.
Get out there.
(06:52):
This has been a thought of a projectthat you had quite some time ago.
Mm-hmm.
And as a part of this process andeven the editing process, like you
mentioned, it was just a lot ofwork with the details with the art.
And this is another evolutionof your work, but I just wanna
go into a little bit more ofspecifically around the process.
(07:14):
Um, how did it feel like.
Being so personal with your lifeand to unveil a part that one, I
haven't personally seen a diasporaof queer Asian folks and a whole
graphic novel centered around themhere, published in America, in here.
Um, but specifically for yourself inthis process, what are some things you
(07:39):
learned along the way while creating this?
Yeah.
I mean, I try to write storiesthat I wish I could read.
You know what I mean?
Like, there are books that Iwant to read that aren't Yeah.
Made yet, so sometimes Ijust have to make them.
So that's definitelywhat this is, um, for me.
And yeah, it is very personal.
(08:00):
Mm-hmm.
I think, you know, there's onecharacter that's very much based on
me, but I really identify with allof the main characters in the story.
I feel like each character representsa different stage of growth.
Mm-hmm.
That I've gone through adifferent time of my life.
Let's see, things that I learned, Imean, I mean, something that someone
(08:23):
told me when I was actually justgraduating college that has really rung
true for me is that we lived multiplelives, you know, in this one lifetime.
And, um, one of the characters,Kay, actually, she says, we're,
we die and are reborn many timesin our heart throughout our lives.
(08:46):
And I think that's so true, right?
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah, I really, I feel likeeach of these characters, maybe I
didn't think of it want when I waswriting, but I came to realize like,
oh, these really represent myself indifferent, different parts of my life.
Mm. And they're also like mixed.
They're amalgamations ofdifferent friends, different
(09:06):
people who have entered my life.
So yeah, a little bit ofthem, a little bit of me.
So some other inspirations just mm-hmm.
For this to make sense,aside from my friend group.
That I made in Seattle.
I, I really felt thelack of that community.
Later when I left Seattle and like mylittle GA family had kind of like mm-hmm.
(09:28):
Moved to different places and I actuallyrealized like, oh my God, that was
a really special time in my life.
And like, while I have a lot of queercommunity, yeah, I, you know, I have,
I have some Asian friends here andthere, but it was just really special.
And also, you know, I mentioned theycall themselves the Boy Luck Club.
(09:49):
Like I'm a huge Yeah.
Joy Luck Club fan.
And I think as a gay Asian, that wasdefinitely a movie I was so fixated on.
Um, even though it doesn't feature gaycharacters, I think oftentimes like
gay boys really, you know, look up to.
Female heroines.
Right.
(10:10):
Fabulous female heroines.
Yeah.
Yes.
Like some strong divas.
And I was obsessed, so it's like,oh, I've got these like incredible
Asian divas and you know, I'mFilipino, but like, it didn't matter.
Like I would just, any, anythingthat was Asian that I could like
glom onto, I'm like, oh my God, Irelate to these women, even though
(10:32):
it's not my culture, but it is.
Yeah.
And it's not my gender, but I get it.
So that was kind of an originalstructure for the story.
It was like kind of dissectinghow Amy Tan wrote the Joy
Luck Club and then, you know.
Mm-hmm.
I kind of did my own thing with it.
But all of these characters,their lives are all intertwined.
(10:55):
Mm-hmm.
And I, I love how she weavesthose stories together.
And I mean, that's just how it is, right?
Like yeah.
Our decisions really.
Affect each other.
Yeah.
What was that process like for you?
How did you bring about your personalexperiences, your backgrounds,
(11:16):
and put it to this project?
Because for your whole repertoire,I would say maybe this is the
most personal project yet, right?
Yeah, possibly.
I mean, Flamer got pretty personal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Talking about teenage suicidalideation, pretty personal.
Mm-hmm.
So I like to think of Gazenas like a continuation of that
(11:37):
very personal storytelling.
And you know, this is adult, right?
So I felt very liberated to say what Ihad to say in a very non-filtered way.
Not that I hold back that muchin Claimer, but it's definitely
written for a younger age group.
(11:59):
And you know, I had a lot of fun.
Like I had a lot of fun writing it.
Yeah.
And.
I felt it.
You know, I, I mean, there weretimes I'd be writing theme and I, I
would be crying writing the scene.
Oh, yeah.
Because it's just very visceral for me.
Like the joy and thesadness and the struggle.
Yeah.
It's all real.
(12:19):
And I should also mention, you know,I had the help of my community.
I interviewed, you know, a,a bunch of gay Asian folks.
Some I know, some like Deltawere like referred to me.
I talked to you of course.
And some of your guests on this podcast.
Mm-hmm.
(12:39):
And I found some common themes.
I also found some unique stories.
And I think,
yeah,
it's all valid.
Right?
And it all needs to be written down.
Yeah.
And was there, as you were goingthrough it, you were talking some
parts of the book evoked a lot ofemotions, tears, and just really deep,
(13:02):
raw feelings without sharing too much.
Is there any part that you wannamaybe share with listeners of just,
what was a moment when you were goingthrough it, writing it, creating
it, that seemed to also evoke a tonof feelings and emotions for you?
(13:23):
There were a, there werea few bangers emotionally.
Um, okay.
I'll say, yeah.
I of have a favorite character.
Mm-hmm.
Her name is Kay.
Um, she's a trans woman.
She's a drugist as she calls herself.
Mm-hmm.
She's based on several really strong,uh, trans women who I know and.
(13:46):
She really rises above so muchshit that's thrown at her.
And there's this part of the book where,you know, suddenly all her power is kind
of stripped away and she is trapped.
And the way that she overcomes it,I don't, yeah, I don't wanna give
(14:07):
away too much, but there is thisvery pivotal moment where she breaks
through and like takes back her power.
I'm getting like goosebumpsthinking about it.
I'm getting goosebumps too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like that.
That's definitely like when I sobbedthe most, writing it when she Yeah.
Rises above, you know, she transcendseverything that's happened to her and
(14:29):
she's like, I'm here and I am takingup space and I am unapologetically
myself and I've got people youknow, who are gonna support me.
Mm-hmm.
So that was very emotional for me.
And, you know, again, I'll own like, Iam not trans, but like just listening to,
(14:52):
you know, my sister's stories, I'm justso in awe of them and inspired by them.
And so, you know, I really hopethat they feel like they're getting
their flowers from case arc. Yeah.
I think all four of them reallyhave some, you know, their own
redemption arc in the book.
(15:15):
And I think for most of thecharacters, there's this insecurity
that they have to overcome.
Mm-hmm.
You know, the, you know, the gay, the gaymen in this book, like, they all have to
overcome this like, hurdle of not feelingseen, understood, like they're enough.
(15:37):
And they all deal with that indifferent ways and different.
Perhaps unhealthy ways and aremaybe reading each other for the
ways they're dealing with it.
Mm. But ultimately, you know, you know,they figure out like, we need each other
to like pull each other through the muck.
Yeah.
And there is, you know, there is aredemption moment that one of the
(16:01):
characters whose name is Steven, it'snot you, but I just like the name.
It's a good name.
Great.
It's a great name.
But he has this reconciliationmoment and the way mm-hmm.
The specific way in which she askssomeone for forgiveness also made me sob.
(16:21):
Mm. And like for, I've heard from a fewearly readers and that's also a moment
where they like, oh, I, I lost it.
Yeah.
And in, in that moment he,it's also a cultural reference.
Like Steven is Vietnamese andhe performs a service that like.
He's very specifically like a Vietnamesecustom of honoring someone, right?
(16:44):
Mm-hmm.
I'm trying not to be too specificand just, you know, to fill people
in like yes, Steven is Vietnamese.
Kay is, oh, he's a Vietnameseimmigrant, so he moved to the states
when he was a child, so mm-hmm.
He sounds American, buthas deep Vietnamese roots.
Kay is third generation JapaneseAmerican, and she had a very strong
(17:10):
relationship with her grandmother.
Mm-hmm.
Her oan, who, uh, livedthrough the intern.
Mm-hmm.
There's John, who is Korean American,and um, is an adoptee from Korea.
Mm-hmm.
So only, you know, is only known hisAmerican life and he is a child of a mixed
race couple, but neither of who are Asian.
(17:34):
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, which is.
Yeah.
A story I hear a lot about as well, and AJmuch like me, is Filipino, white, mixed.
So first generation right On one side.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So just to give some context, and thenthere are some, some other characters,
you know, of different Asian descentor there are two supporting characters
(17:56):
who are both Chinese, but one Mandarinspeaker, one Cantonese speaker.
Yeah.
There's an Indonesiancharacter who's hilarious.
Yeah,
I, I think I was trying to fill theclown car too much at some point.
So not everyone's represented inthis book, but I really just wanted
to focus on making real characters,you know, and represent where I can.
(18:19):
Yeah, I think even with what youshared with some of the characters
and how you have such a breadth ofdiversity, I think it goes to show
that you have tried to pull throughso many different lived experiences.
Into this book.
And when you're talking about thewhole portion around the Asian ego
(18:43):
just earlier and this, this turnaroundmoment, I, I felt it viscerally where
there is also this cultural prideand this cultural norm that we live
here in America as Asian folks, assometimes third space kids, right?
(19:04):
Mm-hmm.
Not of here or there and Right.
I think it just has so many layers of it.
And I'm just curious and just speakingto our community folks, our queer
Asian community listeners, in terms ofspecifically in writing this, even for
yourself, what was really important to getoff your chest or what wa what felt really
(19:31):
good to just finally get off your chest?
In terms of finalizing this book andputting together some of these story arcs?
Yeah,
I mean, I definitely get into,you know, American gay culture,
gay with capital G. Right.
And, um, the complexities of like howpeople who are your, like fellow oppressed
(19:58):
people can still be oppressing you.
Oh yeah.
That's, that's deep.
Yeah.
A very common experience forgay people of color or trans
people, trans people of color.
I mean, yeah, just, you know, whenyou've got more layers, there's
always, there's always gonna besome challenges there, right?
(20:20):
Yeah.
And, and that intertwined with trying todate, say, I mean, that's a minefield.
All right.
Yeah.
So there's a lot ofexperiences that I've had like.
From dating that I got to, Igot to air some grievances.
It felt very good.
So the people who blocked meon Grindr for calling out their
(20:43):
bullshit can read what I Yeah.
What they would have read.
Yeah.
Had they not blocked me.
So that's in there.
Good.
There's also, you know,like AJ and John mm-hmm.
Have a whole conversationabout like imposter syndrome.
Right.
Like, not feeling Asian enough at times.
I feel very self-conscioussometimes because my father didn't
(21:07):
Yeah.
Teach me his language and
I,
I definitely embrace my Filipinoculture and I'm still learning
about it and I grew up with someof it, but, you know, I didn't have
the sort of full immersion that
Yeah.
Maybe other kids had growing up.
And so I always feel a littlelike I. Can I come to barbecue?
(21:27):
You know, like
Yeah.
Yeah.
The need to censor yourself.
Yeah.
And the need to kind of reflecton yourself all the time.
Yeah.
And doubt yourself.
Question yourself.
Mm-hmm.
And just, you know, I, I do include alot of just microaggressions that we
experience on the daily and how thoselittle tiny things really add, add up.
(21:52):
They add up and then mm-hmm.
They kind of make you go crazy.
And there's, you know, there are afew scenes where like, oh, there are
definitely a lot of scenes of eating.
Right.
I mean, that's, yeah.
What we do.
And there's like, it's our culture there.
A lot of different Asianfoods featured in this book.
Let me tell you.
It was really fun doing the research.
'cause you know, I hadto eat it to get into it.
(22:13):
Okay.
But there's also like momentswhen they're talking about
mm-hmm.
Their lived experiences ina sort of casual way, but
like they get kind of Yeah.
Really into it and just talkingabout how that's our normal, right.
And like one of the charactersis like, oh my God, I'm so tired
of like, talking about this.
Like, I feel like we talk about
(22:34):
Yeah.
How we're Asian and gay all thetime, and like, why do we have
to talk about this all the time?
And like Yeah.
Other characters being like, yeah,because we can't talk about it with
anyone else and if we don't talk aboutall we're gonna lose our minds, you know?
Mm-hmm.
So it's like trying to find this balance.
Right.
I feel like, yeah.
This is a common thread that I feel,and like people I talk to have felt
(22:56):
of like, it's like a, uh, an everpresent dissecting of experience.
Yeah.
That can really wear you out.
So needed.
It's almost like it's needed.
It's needed.
Yeah.
This duality.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Duality.
And the really healing part of it, I think
(23:18):
Yeah.
Is when we are able totogether laugh about it.
Yes.
There's a lot of that in the book,and that is like very healing to me
to like find these moments of joy inwhich we're all, yeah, this is a crazy
situation that we're living through.
And LOL.
Yeah.
(23:39):
So glad you you're seeingthis, you know, like
Yeah.
It's like that moment, you know?
I don't know, for, for New York CityERs, like I, I used to live in New
York and there's always a moment onthe subway where some crazy shit's
happening and you have to look ata stranger and be like, looks like
every day you are seeing this, right?
Like this is actually occurring.
(23:59):
Yeah.
This hazmat situation that's unfolding.
Yeah.
So.
I feel like there's a lot of that featured
craziest scene in New York Subway for you.
Oh my God.
My craziest subway moment.
I mean, wow.
That's, I mean, thereare categories, right?
Yeah.
This
is, this one isn't so gross, butjust the funniest one that pops
(24:22):
right into my mind is like, you know,it's winter, it was very packed,
subway, car rush hour, whatever.
And this old lady like is likesqueezing her way into the car and
just literally sits on my lap, likeit's riding the subway in my lap.
(24:43):
And I was just so shocked.
Yeah.
I mean, I would've gotten upper,but like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And just my jaw dropped and Ilike turned to this woman next
to me and her jaw dropped.
And were looking at each other.
We're both like happening and yeah, she,she rode my lap for one express stop.
Oh no.
She,
(25:03):
she seemed, you know, clean.
So that,
yeah.
That was a
blessing.
Yeah.
I feel like there's always somethinghappening to a point where you're
sometimes like so numb to it.
You're like, okay, well we've seen it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I think, uh, recently, you know what?
(25:25):
I was in a subway car where theyhad a whole magic show once.
Ooh.
Ooh.
That was fun.
Yeah.
They had a whole, theyhad a whole shopping cart.
Did they make the smell disappear?
Yes.
They had animals poppingout of left and right.
Oh my gosh.
And people were like animals.
Yeah.
Oh no.
But it was a shopping car and, uh,everyone thought this person was
(25:48):
just homeless and they're like,whatever, you know, and give him space.
And he just startedbusting with magic tricks.
Okay.
I was like.
Yes.
Entertaining.
Yeah.
I, I feel like that's whathumanizes us and I think you
do so beautifully in your book.
Mm-hmm.
And I think this is where alsothe joy piece goes into it, right?
(26:08):
Of this ability to be in the problem,but finally take a step back and then to
be able to reflect and to laugh at it,I feel like is a, this big culminated
journey towards the end, you know?
And this beauty of joy as relinquishing,as also this release of all this tension
(26:37):
and all this stuff that we've beencarrying, I think is such a beautiful
part of, to your point, expression.
And I think.
It's so important, especially inthis day and age where beyond the
confines of, you know, necessarilymicroaggressions for queer Asian
community, but for the larger world,even, like what is happening right now.
Right.
But I, I, I feel that this is so muchmore needed as a reminder more than
(27:02):
ever now, of this joy, of this release,of this reminder that we are human.
That there is maybe another side ofthis, that we're just going through it.
And that this joy is alsosomething that we all share.
(27:22):
That we all understand.
That we all experience, yeah.
That bring us also together.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And I feel like, you know, you're rightwhen you're able to release, right.
We're, we address it, we can let it go.
And like when we strip everythingaway, we're just people.
(27:43):
Right.
Yes.
And I think that's the biggestpiece that we struggle with is like,
yeah.
Asking everyone else like,can you just look at me like
another person and allow me to be
mm-hmm.
Weird and imperfect andhave feelings and Yeah.
(28:06):
And that we're all deserving
of joy.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know you and I have talked a lotabout like joy as liberation, right?
Mm-hmm.
Joy as, as healing and joy as community.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We need that.
We need, we need hope, right?
(28:26):
We need, oh yeah.
We need laughter and, and we need sexand we need good food and we need Yeah.
You know, like so many things tokeep us going here because Yeah.
It's tough times.
Tough times.
It's real, real right
now.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it's, it's, but somethingabout joy is so, it, it, the thing
(28:52):
that's so beautiful about it isthere's a lightness around it.
Right.
There's a lightness around it.
There's a simplicity to it.
Right.
Which I think is so importantbecause I think we're sometimes
so theoretical with what we'retrying to do in this world, right.
Whether it's when it's implementingpolicy or debating certain things
(29:15):
with one another that we try so hardgetting into the head and imagining
as if us being in our heads issomehow gonna be liberatory being, you
know, so revolutionary for everyone.
But the beautiful part I, I, Ifind about joy is how simple it
(29:35):
is to just sit with, you know.
It doesn't necessarily mean that joy isnecessarily accepting everything, but it's
almost this lightness, this feeling oflightness that we allow to wash ourselves
with in being present in the moment.
You know?
And I think the challenge is, youknow, it's not necessarily saying
(29:58):
this is exactly the solution.
This is exactly, you know, everything'sperfect by any means, but it is
allowing ourselves to breathe,allowing ourselves to be present,
allowing ourselves to slow down.
Joy is just also notefficient by any means, right?
In the context of likework and all this stuff.
(30:20):
There's something about itthat I think is so beautiful.
And you know what's so fascinating?
Um, I forget what I was listening to.
Um, if it was a YouTube videoor something like a TikTok.
But it was just talking about thisbeauty of animals, dogs, for example,
and that dogs also express joy and thatjoy is such an innate part of Right.
(30:43):
Animals in the ocean play around andcreate space to play and to create space
to enjoy and if so many creatures aredoing so that there must be innately a
value to it, intrinsic to so many of us.
Then I think in this world that'sso focused on like efficiency,
productivity, um, output, capital,you name it, joy is almost this like
(31:11):
counter-argument against it, right?
That to me it feels soliberatory in itself.
Yes.
Yeah.
I mean, question for you islike, what is joy to you?
Ooh.
Joy to me, I think is, I mean, itcan be a lot of things, but I think
(31:36):
acceptance can be really joyful.
Like, just being like, okay, it's not,this is not perfect and that's okay.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm gonna be
happy about it.
Like, I'm going to, I'm gonnabe proud of trying my best,
(32:02):
even if it's not Yeah, exactly.
Perfect.
Or what I hoped it would be.
And I think I'm, I think I feelthat way about this book, right.
Where it's like, it's not perfect,but I, I hope I did my, my very best.
Right.
And are there things that would change?
(32:22):
Yeah.
But I, it's okay.
You know?
Yeah.
Um, and I hope that translatesand I hope people find joy in it.
Yeah.
I think that's a challengeof being a creative, right?
Where you keep dissecting, you dissect,dissect, dissect your work, and I mean,
the process is enjoyable, but thereis this interesting nature where it's
(32:48):
like this tale of, I'm trying to figureout how to draw the analogy to it.
I was thinking narcissist, right?
The Greek God who was justlike staring into this like
reflection and all this stuff.
Mm-hmm.
That it starts to become, this, narcissismisn't necessarily the right word.
It's a little bit tothat degree obsession.
Obsession, overindulgence,right within the craft.
(33:10):
Right.
That it almost starts to become likethis cyclical thing that we almost,
to your point, have to figure out,you know, just when to leave it.
Mm-hmm.
When to put it down and.
Being open to just accepting the output.
I think, I mean, looking at yourwhole repertoire of everything,
(33:31):
I, I feel like you put your heartand soul on every project you do.
Um, everything is also so polished, butas a part of it, um, I mean in context to
perfectionism and all of this, has thisbook taught you anything about yourself?
Yeah.
I mean, I, I, I have tried for a verylong time to accept that I'm not perfect.
(33:58):
Yeah.
And that can be hard.
And I think
mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I do put a lot of my heart into mywork, my, my very big Pisces heart.
But things that I've learnedfrom this book, I think.
I'll share a little bit of like somethingthat I shared in, in the afterward, right.
(34:24):
Which is mm-hmm.
Some people are gonna readthis book and feel like, oh my
God, you slayed, you got it.
You know, this is totally the experience.
And some people are gonna read thisand be like, no, that's not me.
That's not who I am.
Like,
yeah.
And they're both right.
(34:44):
You know, they're both right.
Mm-hmm.
And it's both valid and, yeah.
So this book had taught meto let go of a lot of things.
Mm. I think in healthy ways.
Like, I journal every night.
I write down all, you know, things happenin the day, but my feelings especially,
(35:05):
and I feel like it helps me sleep better.
Like it's, it's like a, a minidose of letting go of like.
You wrote it down, there'snothing you can do about anything.
Yeah.
Now it's time for bed.
And I feel like, yeah, this is the macroversion of that where it's like, yeah,
I'm not saying I'm over everything that Iwrote about, but I put it down, you know?
(35:29):
And it's like, yep, there it is.
Maybe someone's got some ideas,you know, can help me out.
Yeah.
Help each other out.
So there's maybe letting goof, of some of the trauma that
I've experienced in my life.
And I think the book ends on a hopefulnote of, of reaching for the future.
(35:57):
Right.
Which is something that I am,I'm still learning how to do.
I have a very hard time lettingthings go, like from my past.
And so I feel like thebook really promotes.
Leaning into something new, whetherthat's chosen family, whether that's
trying something in a different way orletting someone else carry you for a bit.
(36:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, I think we all need that tobe able to say, I, I mean, you were
talking about Asian pride before and like
mm-hmm.
Um, I do think we have a lotof pride and it's incredible.
But also I feel like there'san Asian experience of like,
I cannot show weakness.
I mm-hmm.
I cannot be a burden I can never ask for.
(36:47):
Mm-hmm.
Things that I need.
I have to suffer in silence and figureit out and be a good, insert the blank.
Yeah.
Be a good child, partner,employee, friend.
Friend.
Yeah.
Student, you name it.
It's like, okay, Excel.
(37:08):
Right.
And that's how.
How you'll be fulfilled in thatand that will fulfill your, your
duty and commitment to Yeah.
Your community.
Mm-hmm.
Because there is, I mean,family is very important Right.
In, in Asian culture and
Yeah.
And I, I think a lot of thecharacters in this book have been
(37:28):
just inherited from their familiesand have created this family.
And I'm kind of like on a tangentnow, but like, no, keep going.
Yeah.
I, but I think they all in theirway experienced some form of that.
Right.
I, I'm like, mm-hmm.
I have to be strong and I can'tcrack or it's all gonna come down.
(37:49):
And, and it does, like, it does fallapart for them because they're not
all coming, coming to each other.
Their 100% authentic selves.
And that's, that's the mis right?
That's the swing in the mis.
And then things fall apart.
And the only way they're goingto be able to come together.
(38:10):
Is to like,
yeah,
this is who I really am and I'mflawed and I need your help.
Like that's the only way we'regoing to make it is if we really
rely on each other and own, yeah.
Who we are in like three dimensionalway and not who we pretend to be.
(38:33):
So bringing your authentic game
Yeah.
I think is so key toreally moving forward.
Yeah.
What I'd love to know, and also forlisteners, what are some ways that you've
(38:53):
been able to be more authentic, showup more authentically, or even to your
point, stop this loop, this perfectionistloop, this cycle of suffering alone.
Is there anything that you've.
Done reflected on, or ways that you'vebeen able to stop that process from
just keep happening again and justshowing up to your point, authentic?
(39:17):
Yeah, I think, I think I, I'm, I'mstarting to be better about voicing
when I'm not happy about something.
I love that.
I think there's a lot of likeswallowing the bitterness.
Like, I didn't like that,but I'm going to, yeah, okay.
I'm just gonna like move on.
And it's like, well actually weneed to talk about that, you know?
(39:38):
And I think I have a fear sometimes I'llgo, like, if I talk about something I'm
not happy about, maybe someone else isnot gonna like that and then they're
gonna distance themselves from me orlike, maybe they're not gonna understand
and they're gonna, I get their feelingshurt and I don't wanna hurt their
feelings, so I'm not gonna say anything.
And you know, those are real feelingsand I. We just gotta do the work.
(40:04):
Right?
It's like there's gonna be a littlemessy maybe, but it's not, it's not
going to get better by not addressing it.
Yeah.
So I'm trying, I'm tryingto be better about that.
Yeah.
That it brings up for me, there arethe so many words also in different
Asian languages that, to your point,swallowing the bitterness, right?
(40:26):
Yes.
Gaman in Japanese is all aboutlike this, this tenseness, you hold
through difficult situations, right?
They have another word is similarin Korean Han is, is like spirit.
This indestructible spirit in the for faceof adversity, but also those are learned
(40:46):
behaviors to children get through it.
Right?
Thicken up that, I don't think inEnglish, there's such a word similar akin
to it, but in Asian languages, right?
Whenever these words are spoken, gaman.
Like, all these kids understand, okay,time to toughen up, put your shield on.
Mm-hmm.
Get through it.
(41:07):
That to your point, I think becomessuch a ingrained part of why it's
so hard sometimes just to let gobe authentic to your point, be
messy, or even to show discontent.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I think that's so interesting how yes.
Some, some cultures havelike a word to describe it.
(41:29):
And I mean, since you brought upthe Japanese word, I mean, something
I like to think about is more likethe Japanese concept of zen, right?
And like,
I
love the art of Kintsugi, right?
Where it's like mm-hmm.
Something's broken.
Oh yeah, yeah.
And then it's put back togetherwith like golds, right?
(41:50):
And then it's even stronger.
And I think that's thebetter representation of.
The human spirit, right.
Where it's like mm-hmm.
It's go, things are going to break.
Yeah.
We're not built to be indestructible.
Like, we're actually not gods.
Um, maybe we have a piece ofthe divine, but like, we're
going to crack at some point.
And it's like,
(42:11):
yeah.
Are, are you going to put thingsback together, together and, and
become even stronger and morebeautiful from that breakage?
Yeah.
Or are you gonna let it go to pieces?
You know, I think, yeah, that'swhat we're all asked to do, I think.
Yeah.
We're finding the beauty and the mess.
(42:32):
Beauty and the fractures.
Yeah.
And the imperfections.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
It's such a, it's such a beautifulart because there's something to
it that's just so organic, right?
Mm-hmm.
The whole concept of you have this thingbreak and you bring it together, but even
the fractures and the fissures, right.
That if you're just brushingon the gold foil, you can't
(42:53):
recreate that even if you tried.
Yeah.
You know?
And, and this beauty of it is,I, I think it's just something.
So I think it's very cathartic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and, and to your point, I, Ithink analogy I heard was also our
hearts break, so it can grow bigger.
(43:13):
Mm.
Yeah.
I
love that.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But this notion of breaking is so.
Instrumental as a part of lifelived experiences, nature,
the cycle of death, rebirth.
Mm, yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
(43:34):
Yeah.
I, I think overall, just takinga step back, I think just seeing
from my perspective as a friend,as a peer and seeing you work on
this project so tirelessly andjust pouring your heart and soul.
Um, one, I think readers are, arelisteners are in for a treat when they
(43:55):
get a hold of the book and take a peekand take a listen with their eyes and
their heart and soul of the pages andjust seeing what you've poured into it.
The callis hours, not only researchand also other experiences, but
just diving into this place that.
(44:16):
You know, at one point, uh, we're goingthrough microaggressions, thousands of
paper cuts, this pain, and you've somehowcreated this beautiful manifestation,
this story intertwining all thesecharacters in such a beautiful way.
And I, I'm just so, I'm so appreciative.
One, but also two, just so happy for youto be able to put this out into the world.
(44:40):
And I think it's just also so beautiful.
Now we have the tools to then for thenext generation of all these other
queer Asians, Asians have then thislegacy and all these shared experiences
to build off and to you not feelalone as a part of their experiences.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I mean, I, I say it in the,in the afterward, like, we just
(45:03):
need more, you know, like I, mm-hmm.
I want, I want this to inspirepeople to write their own.
Stories and experiences, you know?
Yeah.
'cause it, I mean, we just can'tbe condensed into one book.
Yeah.
That's not enough, so.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I hope, I hope people take thebaton and, and run further with it.
(45:29):
Yes.
Yes.
And as we're starting to gettowards the end of the podcast,
few quick questions for you.
Uh, what is one thing you want listenersto be taking away from this episode?
I mean, we,
we talked about joy a lot, and Ithink, I think that's a good one.
(45:50):
You know, um, I, I love having, or loveis kinda a, let's use a different word.
I need there to be something onmy calendar to look forward to.
Mm. A friend, a friend saidthis to me like years and years
ago, and I have held onto it.
Like, it's really important I think to.
(46:10):
Have something, some kind oflight at the end of the tunnel.
Yeah.
Thing, whether it's like a smalltreat or like a big trip or something.
Yeah.
So that, and you know, andwe talked a lot about chosen
family, I think it is important.
Mm-hmm.
Now more than ever in our lives thatwe are showing up for each other.
(46:32):
Mm-hmm.
I think activism can have many faces andone of them is just taking care of the
people in your community and your lifeand holding down your corner of the world.
Mm-hmm.
And not just simple as like, oh, myfriend is sick, I'm going to Yeah.
Start a meal train for them.
(46:54):
Or My friend lost their job, I'mgonna like help them network.
I mean, just,
yeah.
Seemingly small things like thiscan really make a difference
in someone's life and.
Yeah.
When, you know, when you'rehelping even one person, you're,
you're helping your community.
So yeah.
The value of communal care.
(47:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Totally mutual aid.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I mean, weneed to lean into that.
Yeah.
And what other projectsdo you have coming up?
Anything you're able to share?
Yeah.
I am working on a middle gradegraphic novel, which is called Pals.
(47:35):
And it's about twofriends who are pen pals.
And it's inspired by, um, my friendship,uh, with my best friend Laura.
We became pen pals when I think I wasmaybe in sixth grade and she was in
seventh grade, something like that.
And we really saw each otherthrough some middle school horrors.
(47:59):
You know, I think it'sa very sweet book and.
It was just so important tohave that like person in my life
who is like third party, right?
This is like pre therapy, right?
It's just someone that Icould write a letter to.
I mean, this is like the ninetiestoo, so I'm like writing this
girl like gel pen on paper.
(48:22):
You know?
This gel pen!
Hello.
How are you?
Sakura pens?
Yes!
Oh my God.
I love a, a fancy pen.
You know, and we would writeeach other letters of support
and like complain about things.
'cause it's like, oh, this persondoesn't know anyone in my life,
so I can say whatever I want.
You know?
(48:42):
And that was like such a huge relief.
And I mean, we were pen pals likethrough our entire adolescence,
you know, and to becoming adults.
And now we just talk on the phone.
Every now and then we'll findeach other a little letter.
But anyway, I. Yeah, it's, it's just abeautiful story of like two best friends
(49:03):
who come from very different backgrounds,writing each other, you know, saving
each other through pen and paper.
So I'm wrapping up theillustrations for that.
Oh,
that's so exciting.
Yes.
And I co-authored with, I don't knowif I mentioned that, coauthored with
mm-hmm.
And Laura Robbins.
(49:23):
Laura is the person whoI dedicated flame to.
Yeah.
So, yeah, she's my real life viol.
So yeah, stay tuned that it comes out,um, next year still working on the art.
Exciting.
Yeah.
Um, that's, that's, that's so special.
And I feel like in this dayand age when so much of.
(49:46):
Writing is just AIdriven and generated Oh.
And all this stuff.
I, I, I feel like the, the notion ofthis exchange, this beautiful back and
forth, um, when I was in middle school,I don't know if you had this, but we had
notebooks that we passed around and backand forth between you and your friend.
(50:08):
And each friend had a notebook.
So throughout the year I would have likefour or five notebooks in circulation
back and forth, and my friends and I wouldbasically write or even draw and, and
we basically traded it back and forth.
And it was this, this process of,sometimes it was a poem, sometimes it was
drawing, sometimes it's just like a longrant about someone else or the world.
(50:32):
Yes.
And, and, and, and it is justthis beautiful notion of just
like anything goes and, and.
Just putting out whatever'sin your heart, mind, and soul.
And, and it didn't have to be so perfect.
So all this stuff, you know?
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
Do you still have them?
Um, I, I have 'em likein my, like mom's Yeah.
(50:56):
Attic back in LA mode.
Oh yeah.
It's like pages and pages.
I was like, I had way too much time.
You had some things to say.
Yeah, I had some things to say.
And then that was way before, um,like blog spot came out or in Zenga.
And then when Zenga came out, then we allshifted to just doing like personal blogs.
(51:18):
But I was way before,
there was no pun say youroriginal podcast, you know?
Oh yeah.
The written pod.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was so, it was so creative.
You know, it was like I would meet, likewe would meet up and in passing in school,
you'd only have a little bit of time.
You couldn't write in it during class.
Then you, you know, switch the notebook.
(51:39):
Sometimes people are writing it duringclass, and then it just looks like
you're taking notes after the class.
You just like hand it, trade it off.
And it became this thing where it was justlike over time and then it was just a set
of, you know, you and a friend would havea notebook, but they would also have a
notebook between a few of their friends.
And it was just like this wholecirculation of, and it was the, you know,
(52:00):
the, the very simple spiral notebookswith like, maybe like a hundred pages
or something very thin, you know?
And anything goes free for all.
You could use a pen,you could use a Sharpie.
Love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's just the power of pen pals.
I'm just curious, where, um,did you first connect and what
(52:22):
connected you into pen paling?
We met at a summer camp.
It was actually a Christian summer camp.
Oh.
Even though I was, I was raisedCatholic, but like we would go.
Visit friends.
That's a lot more to unpack on the, there.
It has layers.
We, my family would go visit friendsin Pennsylvania and then Yeah,
(52:42):
they, they all would just like dropall of us bids off at this camp.
Mm-hmm.
And they would have time to hang out.
And so we met in line at the tradingpost and like the, the connection was
just, and how old were you at the time?
I mean, I think I was like 12.
Maybe she was 13, you know.
(53:03):
Yeah.
So I feel like we bonded overCanty, which tracks, right.
I mean that, yeah.
My sweet tooth is whatleads me through this world.
And just, we would just laugh.
Right.
And there was another, therewas like a counselor that we
were kind of friends with also.
So like the three of us Yeah.
(53:24):
Had this little like.
Peaky click, I guess.
And we were just alwaysclowning around and
Yeah.
Yeah.
We treated a ation.
And then I got a letter in themail and I was like, Ooh, fun.
You know?
That's, and we just...
yeah
Just kept, kept going.
I mean, we, there are hundreds of letters.
(53:45):
Yeah.
It's, it's amazing.
And we would draw each other thingswe would like, cut out, like comic
strips to mail to each other.
And then we got into like recordingcassette tapes for each other.
So, and it wasn't just, oh, likewe, it was kind of a mix, right?
Like, we record music's cool,but we'd also, like, we would
(54:05):
read to each other from books.
We would read each other's letters,like, look best of like the hits.
Right.
We would write our own spoof songs andlike sing spoof songs to each other.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was like a whole, um, I hopeyou, I hope you saved those.
Yeah.
I. I think I have some, but you know, ascassettes get so warped over time mm-hmm.
(54:27):
I, I have, I think I have a few, but,um, I don't know if all of them made it.
Hmm.
Yeah.
But yeah, I should unearth thoseand I feel like I tried to listen
when I was writing the script.
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
Yeah.
Um, favorite candy?
Ooh.
(54:48):
I mean...
What's favorite lately?
Yeah.
I'm like, as a kid, mypalette has changed.
Like, I, I could like house a box of nerdsas a kid and like, now I'm like, oh girl.
Oh no.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm, I'm a chocolatetheme, so like, almost anything
chocolate, I'm with you.
(55:08):
So, you know, just like a nice, rich.
Dark bar of chocolate.
Yeah.
Or if you like get some of thoselike Asian treats from the market,
like, oh my god, what are those?
Like the little like mushrooms,like Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
With the little animals on it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
With like little wer.
(55:30):
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Those are, I can't, I havedeep double box, right?
You can't, yeah.
Stop eating those, you know, a chocolatecovered gummy, I'm not mad about.
Yeah.
My partner and I were recently in Japanand Japanese candies, another tier,
(55:50):
another level, and they had all thesegummies that had different textures on
it, and so they had ones that were like.
Almost like a crinkly texture.
Okay.
And it wasn't like a sour powder thatyou'd normally have in the States, but
they had one that was like a crinklytexture, another one that would have a
(56:10):
much smoother texture, but it was morelike gummy, but it was like a taffy gummy,
and it was all about the mouth feel.
Oh, sure.
And they were alldifferent types of gummies.
And I was just like,this is like phenomenal.
I'm imagining like the tripe of mm-hmm.
Gummies.
The sort of melt feelwe're talking about here.
(56:30):
Like Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like weird crevices and stuff.
Okay.
Wow.
All right.
Down to a science, you know, theJapanese people are just like, of course.
Yeah.
Very detailed.
Yes.
Yes.
But that is really good.
Um, yeah.
And I think lately I've been reallyobsessed with, um, my partner
loves to get the Trader Joe.
(56:52):
Um.
Super sour gummies.
Yeah, the super sour, uh, Scandinavianswimmers and just literally
a bag lasts like 30 minutes.
That's,
that's something my partner would be into.
They would be all over that.
Yeah.
Any kinda like sour gummy thing?
Oh yeah.
And literally it was just like, we openthe bag like after the grocery store and
(57:16):
then half of it's gone on the train ride.
Yeah.
Bye.
Yeah.
And then we'll start cooking a mealand then another quarter's gone.
And then by the time we start eatingdinner, I don't know what happened.
Oh no.
But there's also so funny, it'slike a whole, like a whole subset
of the internet, but they have likefive flavors in it and people have
(57:37):
broken down each bag and they'relike, why is only five raspberries?
And like.
30, 50 of these like red stars andall these people in like the Trader
Joe, Reddit, and just open up thebag and just do a layout of it.
Love that.
And they're like, thisis an awful conspiracy.
I
love that.
That's the kinda like twistedthing that I am here for.
(58:01):
You know what I mean?
Where it's like I demand Yeah.
Equity in my Canty bag.
Yeah.
With your gummy.
Yeah.
My palate deserves tohave a leveled experience.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
What if you open a bag of Skittlesand you only felt like That's right.
You know what if therewere only like 10 Yeah.
(58:24):
Red and like, yeah.
And you have like, like 30 lemons.
Yeah.
That's not right.
That's not
right.
Or like one pink starburst and thenall the rest were like, yeah, lime.
Oh, that's rude orange.
Yeah.
That's rude.
Yeah.
Well, that's good.
Okay.
And then last question, oractually last two questions.
(58:46):
Yeah.
Is there something that'sbringing you joy lately?
I mean, I love cooking.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe
I don't, I don't remember how I answeredthis on the other episodes, but like,
just having the time to like cook.
Yeah.
Real meals again, it feels good.
And mm-hmm.
I've been trying, um, actually didn'tcook last week 'cause I was traveling,
(59:09):
so now I'm like trying to reach back.
But yeah, you know, I, I've got somebangers that I like and then I like to
like, try to make something new every
now and then.
Best dish so far?
Or like, what's the dish of the season?
Ooh, the, or I don't know how to say it.
Yes, French.
(59:31):
Uh, what was amazing, I did thissort of like miso salmon and
green bean, like sheet pan meal.
I love a sheet pair.
Bake.
Ooh.
You know, where it's like we're justhere for the flavor and the roasting like
efficient too.
Yeah.
'cause it's like, you know, I mean, Iwanna cook and also it's like, I mean, a
(59:52):
girl's got stuff to do, so I can't justbe, I, I can be cooking like half the day,
but every now and then I will go all in.
Like, I, I did spend like an entire daymaking maima curry from scratch and Wow.
When, when that happens, I mean, it is,I wanna cry, you know, like I, I was able
to spend a very long time in Thailand twoyears ago, and I, I took a cooking class,
(01:00:18):
like on the side and like, yeah, yeah.
Maman Curry was like, I was like,I can't believe I made this.
So like, yeah, that's my go-tothing to make from there.
Yeah.
Good.
It's very, there's a, there's somethingin the sweetness, the creaminess.
The tenderness, themeatiness, it just heals you.
(01:00:43):
Everything.
It's everything.
The cashier line.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
And then a little bit sour.
Yep, yep, yep.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Just everything.
And then sometimes they put thetamarind or, oh, it's like, yeah.
Tamarind a little bit.
Yeah.
Tamarind concentrate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Necessary.
Oh, yeah.
Like
that was, you gotta go cook now.
Yeah.
(01:01:03):
Yes.
And then, um, how can people find you ifthey want to learn more about your work?
Yeah.
Where are you at nowadays?
I'm still on the gram.
I'm still on Instagram.
Yeah.
At Mike Corrado.
I don't know why I had to make life sohard for myself, but Mike underscore
Corrado, that's like the, the long line.
(01:01:25):
Yeah.
You know, I'm usually,I'm usually on there.
Um mm-hmm.
Sometimes I'm on TikTok atmy Corrado, it's C-U-R-A-T-M.
That's it.
A goodbye Twitter slash x. Yeah.
Never again.
And, um, yeah, I'm, I'm likenot really doing anything else.
I guess I, I guess I technicallyam on threads, but, Hmm.
(01:01:47):
Have you liked it?
I'm kind of, I don't really spendtime, I mean, I, I'll just like
spend a few minute, you know,looking at some friends' stories.
Yeah.
And that's kind of on Instagramand that's kind of all I wanna
do on social media these days.
Yeah.
'cause I don't know, I justneed to do other things.
(01:02:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I, I feel the same way.
I think their issue with threadswas they really pushed for brands
to have a presence and Yeah.
Do you care if, you know, Xbrand has a stance on something?
I'm like, I really.
No.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I just wanna see like my friends andpeople who inspire me, like yeah.
(01:02:33):
What are
actual
people up to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, I'm, I'm usually just, juston there like talking about book stuff,
so.
Nice.
And art.
Yeah.
And your book tour, where areyou posting most of that update?
Is it gonna be on Instagram?
It will be on Instagram and probablyon my website, which is mike rado.com.
(01:02:55):
And I am gonna be in NewYork for like whole week.
Mm-hmm.
Big book release is at,you'll need books on June 3rd.
Yay.
And I'm gonna be at the Museum of Chinesein America on the fifth, and then I'm
gonna be in la Long Beach, San Francisco,Berkeley, Seattle DC Boston, Providence.
(01:03:18):
Yes.
Yeah.
So, you know, I need toget to the West Coast.
Big concentration of Gaysians.
Good luck.
You gotta represent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll definitely be posting stuff there andyou know, other, other events to follow.
Ooh, I'm gonna be at FlameCon this summer, which is fun.
It's like a gay comic bookfestival in New York City.
(01:03:39):
Ooh.
Every August.
Um, nice.
So if you like to nerdout like that, it's cute.
Yeah.
I enjoy it.
That's awesome.
And for those listening, ifyou want to find out more,
take a look at our show notes.
And if you've enjoyed this podcastwith Mike, leave us a rating review,
(01:04:02):
tell us what your thoughts were.
And definitely highly recommendchecking out Gaysians when it
is released later this year.
And.
You'll definitely seeme with my copy of it.
I'm just so excited for Mike'supcoming book and just including
us as a part of his story.
(01:04:24):
Um, if you wanna follow us, you cancheck us out on social media at Yellow
Glitter PD on social, and then checkout our website for the rest of our show
notes, transcripts and everything else.
Uh, with that, we are nowwrapping up our episode.
Just so grateful for Mikefor stopping by again and for
(01:04:46):
gracing us with his presence.
Oh, thank you.
Anytime, Steven.
I love some Yellow Glitter.
Make sparkle.
Make it sparkle.
Well, thank you so much for comingand for listeners, thank you for
listening and hope your day can be abit more sparkly, glitzy, and glammy.
(01:05:06):
Thank you.
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