July 8, 2020 • 55 mins
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Contact us at yondercast@gmail.com
Episode Agenda with Time Stamps:
- 00:22 - Banter: Our first reviews, Black Lives Matter, kidney stone farewell, Josh’s doctorate program.
- 12:20 - Listener Question: What do you think of 3D printing - specifically 3D printing organs?
Credits:
- Cover Art Photo: Mosby Lake - follow this dog on instagram at regular_mo.
- Cover Art Font: Paper Cuts 2 by Empire of Dust (Daniel Werneck) is Public Domain.
- Intro Music: Shortened version of “Sweat Time” by Loyalty Freak Music is licensed under a CC0 1.0 Universal License.
- Outro Music: Shortened version of “Alethia” by Nihilore is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ian (00:03):
Hello, everyone and welcome to Yondercast, the show where we
do our best to answer yourquestions.
My name is Ian Lake and thisweek I am joined by the amazing
Patrick Leitch and anotherperson who I guess happens to
also be here Josh Baltzell.
Josh (00:21):
Hi.
Ian (00:22):
You guys, before we get things going, this is the first
episode that we're recordingafter we actually went live with
the show.
And so people have heard theshow at this point, and I am
very excited to tell you that wehave reviews on Apple podcasts.
We have four, five star reviewson Apple podcasts, and none of
(00:45):
them are my mom.
So that means that we're reallydoing something right.
I want to read you guys some ofthe things that people say about
our show.
Patrick (00:54):
Oh boy.
Ian (00:54):
So one user, user likeaustralia89 says this is a
fun podcast.
That's both entertaining andinformative topics are explained
in a way that's easy tounderstand for the whole family.
And then user gobowman.
10 out of 10 recommend.
This is a fantastic podcast fromsome really great teachers/guys.
(01:16):
The show is super funny and theguys have great chemistry
together covers a large range oftopics successfully.
If you like star talk radio,you'll love this.
Josh (01:24):
You go go Bowman.
Ian (01:29):
And that gives me another podcast to check out as well,
which is cool.
we are also coming back from alittle bit of a break.
We haven't done any recording ina few weeks and we haven't
released any episodes in alittle while.
And as we explained in our,special message, that was the
last thing that we released.
That's due to, the Black LivesMatter movement and our desire
to give ourselves and ourlisteners some time to really
(01:52):
fully engage with that.
And really s tart the learningprocess and start the activism
process.
So how have you guys been doingwith that?
Josh (02:02):
I've been really enjoying the volume of YouTube videos
that discuss equity-basededucation.
Cause I think that that'ssomething that speaks to all
three of us a lot recently.
And so it's just been reallyexciting and I hope that the
trend continues that peoplestart putting more focus on how
we can make education moreequitable from like a cultural
(02:23):
perspective.
Patrick (02:24):
I do love that.
We've actually downloaded a fewaudio books and since the family
has been kind of busy and don'treally have time to sit down and
actually physically read, we'llactually just put them on as
we're doing things around thehouse.
And I know my two year oldprobably can't understand what's
being said, but it's kind of aninteresting thing that he'll be
growing up in a household wherewe do have all these social
(02:45):
justice issues going on andhopefully he can pick up on some
of that throughout it, whetherwe're buying all inclusive books
or listening to podcasts,watching YouTube videos, those
are just reflecting ourselvesand kind of talking about it as
a group.
Josh (03:01):
I think one of my favorite parts about doing this research
has been having those reallydifficult conversations with
people that don't necessarilywant to have those
conversations.
I have some family members thatI know that with, a couple of
family members, we've hadconversations that went upwards
of like six hours.
Just talking about things thatcertain people don't want to
(03:23):
hear.
Patrick (03:24):
But it's that's impressive.
Six hours.
Josh (03:26):
Oh yeah.
That was a fun conversation.
Ian (03:29):
Yeah, I've been, I've been doing some.
Some learning and some growingmyself, I purchased book white
fragility, which is one of thebooks that we recommended in our
special message.
And it's, one of the books onanti-racism and, and just on
understanding white supremacyand white privilege and I'm
about 35% through reading it orsomething.
(03:50):
And it's a really, reallyexcellent read.
I think it's definitelyworthwhile.
it's been very eyeopening.
And I also listened to the 16 19podcast.
I listened to the whole thing inlike two days.
There's only six episodes andthey're about 35 to 40 minutes
each.
And it's really excellent.
It's not what I expected.
I expected it to be the way thatthey describe it is it sounds
(04:14):
like it's the story of the firstship that arrived, carrying
slaves in the Americas andthere's actually very little
about that.
And they can say right at thebeginning of the show that they
don't have a lot of informationabout that.
So it's not really show aboutthat specific historical event,
but it's an excellent show, justabout many, many aspects of
(04:39):
racism throughout the centuriesand ways that it has affected
black people that I didn'tpreviously know about or didn't
expect.
There's some really, reallyeyeopening stuff in there too.
So for our listeners, I thinkthat this is probably going to
be something that we come backto and revisit often.
And since we're all engaging init, it'll be stuff that we talk
(05:02):
about fairly regularly.
Other things that we seem totalk about fairly regularly
include my kidney stones.
And I have,
Patrick (05:10):
Oh, no.
Is there another one?
Ian (05:11):
I have news on that front.
I said goodbye to my kidneystone two days ago.
I finally had my followupappointment and they had to take
my kidney stone to the lab totest it so I said goodbye, it's
kind of embarrassing to admit,but, you know, it was kind of
hard to say goodbye.
Josh (05:30):
So they let you keep it, but then they asked for it back.
Ian (05:33):
Well, so gosh, not to get into like too much information,
but you have to catch it.
You have to try and catch it,uh, which I succeeded in doing
and then you have to take it into get tested.
and just with what's going onin, medicine right now, it took
until now for me to be broughtin for that followup
appointment.
Josh (05:51):
I have important questions?
Ian (05:54):
Yes.
What's your important question?
Josh (05:56):
What Did you use to catch it?
Ian (05:58):
they give you.
Basically like a little strainer
Patrick (06:02):
I was going to say, I was thinking like a colander
from the kitchen.
Josh (06:05):
was just going to say like what size colander?
Ian (06:08):
it's it's kinda like that.
It's kinda like that, but afiner mesh.
Patrick (06:12):
That's awesome.
Ian (06:13):
I asked it jokingly, but I kind of meant it when the
technician was taking it fromme.
I said, When are you going tomail this back to me?
She did not think I was jokingat first.
I had to, I had to clarify thatI was mostly joking.
Patrick (06:30):
you have to pay the postage there?
Ian (06:32):
I hope that the bills would include postage.
Otherwise oh boy.
Josh (06:40):
And is this like an envelope or?
Ian (06:43):
No, you guys really want to know a lot more about this than
I was expecting.
No, they had me put it in thelittle plastic container, like a
pill box.
Josh (06:50):
Did you have to mark "fragile"?
Ian (06:52):
No, that thing is not fragile.
That thing is, it's a rock.
It's definitely not fragile.
It's a sharp rock.
let's move on and talk aboutsomething else.
What else, what else has beengoing on in your guys's lives?
Patrick (07:07):
I've been digging a lot in my backyard moving a
retaining wall.
So I've also been engaging withsharp rocks.
Ian (07:14):
yeah, you sent us some pictures.
That looks really nice.
Patrick (07:17):
Oh, there's so much dirt.
So if you guys need like, justliterally dirt for anything,
just let me know.
I'll find a way to get it toyou.
Ian (07:26):
you're clearing out space for a fire pit.
Is that right?
Patrick (07:28):
Yeah, it should be like a fire pit and a little seating
area.
Just something to add a littlevalue to the house too.
I've been thinking about it forlike the four years that we've
been here and I just never quitegot the go ahead from the better
half.
So I think this summer, we justhad the time and the sort of
energy.
I just worked for six hours thefirst day and took a day off and
(07:49):
then four hours and then took aday off today was like two
hours.
Ian (07:54):
Yeah.
If you keep that, it'll be 30minutes in two days and then
like 10 minutes, two days afterthat,
Patrick (08:00):
Yeah, I'm getting old.
Not as spry I used to be.
Ian (08:04):
I mean, that is hard work for anybody.
look forward to that turning outand then someday recording a
podcast around the fireplace inyour backyard.
Anything else exciting going onin either of your lives?
Josh (08:18):
I started my classes.
That's not terribly interestingthough.
I don't know.
I find them interesting.
Usually when I start talkingabout my classes, people's eyes
glaze over and they just nodtheir head approvingly like good
for you for finding that lamething.
Cool.
Ian (08:33):
Josh for our listeners who might not know what you're
doing.
Can you tell them what you'retaking classes for and what
you're working towards?
Josh (08:40):
yeah, so I'm getting a degree in neuroeducation it's
the whole concept is we takelanguage neuroscience and
cognitive psychology and kind ofmush it together into one field.
So that way we can betterunderstand how students learn.
So right now we're studying howthe mind and the brain are the
(09:00):
same thing.
There's this misconception thatthey're two separate things and
it's called the duality, pointof view.
But we're trying to focus on thefact that the mind and the brain
are actually the same thing.
just the mind is our languageinterpretation of stimuli.
Ian (09:17):
and at the end of this process, correct me if I'm
wrong, but you will have a PhD.
Is that correct?
Josh (09:22):
Yes.
Ian (09:24):
Wow.
So someday I will get tointroduce you as my mediocre
friend, Dr.
Josh Baltzell.
Josh (09:32):
less mediocre.
Patrick (09:35):
is the, this is like maybe going too deep, but it's
like the brain versus the mindkind of like the body versus the
soul.
Is that the idea that they'retrying to move away from that
conception or misconceptionrather?
Josh (09:50):
Well, it depends on who you're talking to.
Cause there are some people thatstill firmly believe that the
mind and the brain are twocompletely separate things.
so yeah, it's, it's kind of aphilosophy, but yeah, I think
that that's a good metaphor.
The body soul mind, brain idea.
Patrick (10:05):
I like it.
See, I would find that veryinteresting.
I know you say people's eyesglaze over, but I think a lot of
our listeners would probablyfind that discussion.
Very interesting too
Josh (10:14):
Oh, yeah.
It's, it's pretty exciting.
Ian (10:16):
That might have to, that might have to come back on the
show at some point in a littlebit more, more depth.
That does sound reallyinteresting.
Josh (10:22):
Yeah.
Maybe later I can blow yourguys's minds with, time
perception.
Oh no.
Patrick (10:27):
know.
Ian (10:30):
Uh, well, in the interest of time perception, do you guys
want to talk about our listenerquestion for this week?
Oh, no.
Did I lose you
Josh (10:40):
I think Ian froze.
Patrick (10:42):
I wish I could take a screenshot because he's got a
really good smile on
Ian (10:46):
Everything is frozen.
Josh (10:48):
probably talking right now and
Ian (10:49):
Where are you?
Josh?
Patrick?
Patrick (10:53):
I wonder if he's just going to pop back at some point,
just in mid discussion.
Josh (10:57):
And that's how I reabsorbed my kidney stone.
Ian (11:03):
We are just everyone knows.
We just had our first, technicalissues, where our recording
session froze.
So we are coming back afterfiguring that out.
so, hello everyone.
There was probably nointerruption for you, but there
definitely was for us.
Patrick, what were you saying?
Patrick (11:18):
So this is kind of looping back to the kidney stone
question.
Ian (11:21):
Okay.
Josh (11:24):
We're not over it.
Patrick (11:25):
yeah, that was so when, when we went down, it went back
to that and we weren't, we stillhad questions.
So does that mean you're kind oflike an oyster and you made a
Pearl?
Ian (11:35):
Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
Patrick (11:40):
It's literally like homemade jewelry.
Josh (11:42):
My mom has a rock polisher.
Patrick (11:44):
Oh, that's a really good idea.
Throw it in the tumbler
Ian (11:48):
I wonder if anyone has done that before.
Josh (11:50):
Oh.
You know, someone has, there arepeople grosser than us in the
world.
Patrick (11:57):
anyways.
Okay.
I just had to clear that up.
It was, it was burning a hole inmy brain or minder one of those.
Ian (12:03):
All right.
I'm happy to field morequestions about my kidney
stones, but is that it for now?
Patrick (12:08):
for now.
Ian (12:09):
Okay.
I'm glad that those questionsaren't burning a hole in your
brain anymore.
Cause I know what that feelslike.
Cause the kidney stone burned ahole through my body.
So.
All right.
You guys, let's talk about ourlistener question for this week
from our listener drew who asksus,"What do you think about 3D
(12:29):
printing, specifically theconcept of 3D printing human
organs?" So I'm going to takethis one.
I've done quite a bit ofresearch on this, and I just
want to see if either of you,before I get into it, want to
explain what 3D printing is.
Josh (12:46):
Oh,
Ian (12:47):
Actually I'm going to ask both of you to just kind of tell
me, how do you think 3D printingworks?
Josh (12:52):
so you have a box and the box has a little injector
needle, and it's kind of likedrawing pictures, but instead of
drawing pictures, it's makingthings.
And whatever the ink is, the inkis usually actually like some
kind of stuff I'm getting supertechnical.
(13:13):
I hope that you guys can keep upwith me and that stuff is used
to make the object.
Ian (13:20):
Dr Baltzell indeed.
Patrick, do you have anythingyou want to add to that?
Patrick (13:27):
that.
That was a good one.
I was thinking like, I guess mymind went like a, like a tattoo
gun, but in three dimensions andthe ink is like plastic, so it's
a little bit thicker and it'ssort of liquid to start and then
it kind of sets.
And you kind of input a littlecode of where that needle wants
to go.
And it kind of does it in layersor whatnot, but that I like the
(13:47):
things in the stuff version now.
Cause I really don't know
Josh (13:50):
stuffs and things.
Patrick (13:52):
things and stuffs.
Josh (13:54):
And for Organs it's just Organ juice.
Patrick (13:56):
Yeah.
Ian (13:57):
Right.
Of course.
So you guys are actually reallyon the right track.
What you're describing is.
The most common and most widelyused and most widely known type
of three D printing, it's calledfused deposition modeling or
extrusion printing.
And I'm going to talk to you alittle bit more about what that
(14:20):
is and, how it can work.
and then we're going to talkabout some of the other types of
three D printing that you mayhave not heard about.
I'm going to kind of go throughlike four different types of
three D printing and how theyfunction differently and, and
what their strengths andweaknesses are.
And it's it, it will get verycool.
And then we'll talk about kindof like the craziest stuff that
(14:42):
people are doing with three Dprinting and the crazy stuff
that they think they're going tobe able to do in the future.
So.
I'll try to be as brief as I canbecause I really enjoyed
researching this topic.
So you're talking about fuseddeposition modeling, which is
basically a box Josh.
It's a box and there's kind of alittle needle.
(15:04):
It's called the nozzle and.
There is a spool of plastic thatyou feed into it.
And you can use lots ofdifferent types of plastics,
depending on what machine youhave, an our kind of stuff Stuff
exactly.
And what the machine does is itwill feed that spool of plastic
into the nozzle and the nozzlewill melt that plastic and.
(15:28):
Deposit it on a flat surface andit does it layer by layer.
So it kind of builds thesereally thin layers.
And as it builds layer on top oflayer on top of layer, it starts
to form a three dimensionalstructure.
it's kinda like a hot glue gun,actually.
You know how you feed that likesolid glue in the back and then
it heats it up and liquid gluecomes out the front it's like
(15:50):
that, except it's plastic.
Josh (15:52):
I love hot glue guns.
Ian (15:54):
You would love three D printing then Josh.
And so.
This is all done automaticallyby a computer.
It's not like you're not likemanually.
They actually do have like threeD printing pens that you can do
it manually and stuff, which arereally cool.
But generally it's done by acomputer where you create a
three dimensional model on thecomputer and then the printer
figures out how to section thatinto really thin layers and
(16:17):
layer them on top of one anotherand build a three D structure
and.
So that's the most common waythat three D printing is managed
or is accomplished.
And this is also the mostwidespread technology, partly
because there's been some crazyprice drops in this technology
in the last few years, to thepoint where the cheapest three D
(16:39):
printer that uses thistechnology that I could find is
$99.
You can get a three D printerfor a hundred bucks and it's
pretty basic, but you can getthere's a lot of models, like
good ones that are highly ratedthat people enjoy for between
like 170 and$300.
So these types of machines areat the consumer price point at
(17:01):
this point, like it is somethingthat people could have in their
own homes.
and you can get a really niceone, like a lot of the models
that are intended for productdesigners or classrooms, you
know, things that are going toget a lot more use are usually
at the like$2,000 mark.
And then they kind ofprogressively go up from there,
depending on what fit, size andresolution and capabilities you
(17:24):
want from it.
So, the price of three Dprinters is pretty impressive at
this point.
And that's what most people haveencountered when it comes to
three D printing, because thatis main type of three D printing
that's out there that people aredoing.
But there's some othertechnologies that exist right
now, that as I was learningabout them, open my eyes to what
(17:46):
3d printing can reallyaccomplish, one of the
limitations to that type ofprinting is that what you're
printing has to have a flatbottom, or at least has to have
a flat side, cause it has to siton a surface and it has to not
fall over while you're printingit.
And you also can't really printthings with long structures or
really spindly structuresbecause it's melted plastic.
(18:08):
So as you're printing that, it'sjust going to like droop over
and fall, and it's not going towork or it's going to break off
during the process or something.
So if you want to printsomething that has any sort of
feature, like a really thinsection or, you know, long
spikes that come off of it, thatyou don't want to bend, or you
want to print something withoutany flat sides, you need a dual
(18:30):
extruder printer.
Which functions exactly like thestandard FDM printers, except
that it can print with twodifferent materials.
And so you could obviously printsomething with like two
different colors of materials,or you can print something with
a hard plastic and a substancelike PVA polyvinyl alcohol which
(18:53):
is a water soluble material.
And what that allows you to dois it allows you to print in
dissolvable support structures.
So if you want it to printsomething, for example, like a
sphere that doesn't have anyflat sides, you could do that by
basically surrounding thatsphear with printed support
(19:13):
structure.
And then all you have to do isdunk that in water afterwards,
and the polyvinyl alcohol willdissolve away from it.
And you'll be left with thestructure in the middle.
Josh (19:23):
It's the perfect murder weapon.
Ian (19:25):
Wow.
Josh you're actually right, butHoly cow, that's scary.
Um, yeah, so, I didn't thinkabout that as being one of its
potentials that you can printuntraceable.
Did structures.
but you can print things withoutflat sides.
You can print things with muchfiner details.
(19:47):
and here's what I think isreally cool.
You can print stuff with movingparts.
So like if something that you'reprinting has gears in it, for
instance, you just have to printlike a really thin layer of that
dissolvable material between themoving parts.
And then as long as water canget in there and dissolve that
material away, you could printin a single run without having
(20:08):
to assemble it afterwards, youcould print something with like
moving parts.
Josh (20:12):
That's incredible.
Ian (20:13):
you can already kind of like see the potential of that,
right?
So.
that style of printing calledmaterial extrusion, which is
basically just where a materialis pushed through a nozzle and
used to build something can beapplied to not just plastic, but
almost any other material thatyou can think of.
But we're going to come back tothat.
(20:34):
So here's a few other ways thatthree D printers work, there are
3D printers out there that arecalled Vat Polymerization
printers, which is more commonlycalled resin printing.
And what these do is they form asolid object out of a pool of
liquid.
So it's a, it's a materialcalled resin that when exposed
(20:55):
to certain ultraviolet light,hardens into a solid and.
So the way that these work isbasically they kind of print
upside down, especially comparedto the other ones that we were
just describing because they,they will lower a stage into a
pool of liquid and then use alaser, a UV laser to trace the
(21:18):
layer that they want to build onthat stage, and then raise the
stage up and do the same thingfor the next layer and keep
going like that.
So if you watch a time lapsevideo of what this looks like.
It looks like this machine isjust pulling a solid object out
of a pool of liquid.
It's very cool.
Patrick (21:39):
If you put it in reverse, as it looked like it's
destroying the entire thing.
Ian (21:43):
Yeah, it would look like it's like melting it.
So.
So this technology, even thoughit's not as well known is
actually the other type of threeD printing that is available at
the consumer level.
they're more expensive than thebasic, three D printers, but you
can get good resin printer foras little as$210.
(22:03):
a lot of them are around the$500mark and there's pros and cons
to this approach.
Because it's using a L usually alaser or light as the thing
that's drawing the image.
These types of printers canusually accomplish a lot higher
resolution and a lot more detailand a lot more smooth surfaces
on the outside of the print.
(22:24):
And so you can get nicer objectswith it generally.
But it hasn't caught on as muchbecause, well, first of all,
it's more expensive and resin ismore expensive than plastic
spools of material that feedinto the other type of printer.
But also the resin is reallytoxic.
So you're dealing with a toxicliquid, which means you've got
(22:44):
to wear eye protection.
You've got to wear gloves.
It's a liquid that has atendency to spill or have
droplets that go everywhere.
So you've got this like mess oftoxic material and also you have
to cure the Prints after you'redone with them.
So when you take them off themachine, you have to cure them
either by using an ultravioletlight source or by using more
(23:07):
chemicals that you kind of stirit around into finally solidify
everything and to kind of sealit all up.
That's another step in theprocess.
It's another expense.
And so for those reasons,generally consumer level users,
don't prefer resin printers.
Although some people do,
Patrick (23:23):
Yeah, I'm sure us being chemistry, teachers that just
straight up gives me anxietythinking that there's people out
there working with that stuffthat might not know those
things.
Josh (23:32):
They're not wearing gloves.
They're tasting it.
I made a spoon.
Ian (23:38):
Oh, yeah.
Big people, people printingtheir own dining utensils out of
this toxic plastic material.
I'm sure.
I'm sure people have done it.
Patrick (23:47):
Very cool though.
Ian (23:48):
I also didn't mention that these processes produce toxic
fumes.
you know, you're meltingplastics, especially resin,
liquid resin gives off toxicfumes.
And so you've got to have goodventilation if you're going to
do three D printing.
So those are the three Dprinting mainstays.
Those are the technologies thathave really blown up, but there
(24:09):
are two other technologies thatI think are worth mentioning.
The first is material jetting,which is a, it's a process that
works exactly like an inkjetprinter.
In fact, they say it's built oninkjet technology.
So it's basically a machine thatlooks like a printer and it has
a square printing head, like,you'd see on an inkjet printer.
(24:29):
And it just goes across anddeposits an entire layer of
material at once.
And it's kind of like a marriageof the other two because it's
building the thing from theground up, layer by layer but
the material that it's using isa liquid that it.
Deposits in little droplets andthen cures with a UV light as it
goes across.
(24:50):
So it's kind of like, it's kindof like a mixture between the
other two,
Patrick (24:55):
that one sounds fun.
Ian (24:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's really cool.
And it's really fast.
but it has some limitations.
Those structures are generallynot quite as strong as the ones
that are built with the othertechnologies that I already
talked about.
So it's really for people whoare prototyping a lot.
And I should mention for peoplewho are out there, who are going
to get mad at me for, you know,not mentioning every
possibility, there arevariations on all of these
(25:19):
technologies and there's likemillions of different materials
for all of these technologies,including, brands and companies
that are producing their ownmaterials, with, you know,
patented chemistry behind them.
In fact, I thought about buyinga three D printer a couple of
months ago because I found aplan online for three D printing
(25:42):
face masks The reason I didn'tgo forward with it is because
you really kind of need thisspecial material that was sold
out.
But the material was made by acompany.
I think they're called Copper 3Dif I'm remembering correctly.
And they produce a plastic,that's kind of a, a more
flexible plastic and it hascopper ions in it.
(26:05):
And it's specifically for thingslike facemasks because copper
has anti-microbial andantifungal and antiviral
properties, copper ions, disruptcell membranes and disrupt DNA
and stuff like that.
So that it's really good atkilling things like viruses.
So building a face mask out ofit during a viral pandemic makes
(26:26):
a lot of sense.
Josh (26:27):
that's incredible.
Patrick (26:29):
You could also three D print, a replica of your kidney
stone.
Ian (26:32):
Who says I haven't Patrick.
I mean, they, they, they're notgoing to give it back to me.
So I got to make a keepsakesomehow.
I'm going to do it in like fivetimes the size though.
Josh (26:42):
But claimed that that's the actual size.
Ian (26:45):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Patrick (26:46):
kidney stones look larger than they appear.
Ian (26:49):
They feel larger than they appear.
Josh (26:52):
I've heard that.
Ian (26:53):
It's true.
okay.
I have one more type of three Dprinting to tell you guys about,
I apologize for geeking out sohard, but this is my favorite.
I saved my favorite for last,The last type of three D
printing is called Powder BedFusion.
Patrick (27:07):
it's got the best name too.
Ian (27:09):
Oh, it does.
And it's super cool.
it's an incredible technologybecause basically what this is,
is a machine that lays down athin flat layer of powder, and
then a laser shines down on thatpowder in a specific pattern and
it melts that powder and causesit to bind together.
(27:29):
And then the machine lowers thestage a little bit lays another
really thin layer of powder ontop of what was already there.
And then the laser carves, thenext layer and makes it melt and
bind together and bind to thelayer beneath it.
And it just keeps doing this andkeeps, binding these layers
together until it completes theobject And the reason why I
(27:51):
think that this is the coolestone is because number one, There
is no need for supportstructures, because basically
the object is printed in anenvironment of unused powder.
So the surrounding powder actslike the support.
So you can kind of printwhatever you want.
And there's no need to printadditional supports because the
environment supports thestructure as it's being printed.
(28:14):
Also the unused powder thatsurrounds the whole object can
just be recycled and like putback in the machine and it can
use it for the next print.
Josh (28:22):
That was my question.
Ian (28:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
When you do the supportstructure stuff, you know,
you're wasting a lot of materialjust on the supports.
but with powder-based ones,you're not really wasting any
material.
The structures that are made area lot stronger You can do this
with not just plastic, you cando it with lots of different
kinds of plastic, but you canalso do this with metal
stainless steel, aluminumtitanium.
(28:46):
And so now we're talking aboutlike three D printing, actual
real objects that can hold forceand, you know, we can print
hardware that way It's also the,most of the attrical.
Because at the end of the wholeprint is basically hidden in
this pool of powder.
And then at the end of theprint, the machine raises the
bed and like all the powder justfalls away from the thing that
(29:09):
you printed and it just kind ofmerges out of this bed of
powder.
And then you have to brush awaythe extra powder like you're an
archeologist, you know, it's themost theatrical one, too.
Patrick (29:18):
I like to envision the Imperial death march playing as
they're revealing, whatever itwas like.
Bum bum, bum, bum, bum, bum,just the dust falling away.
Ian (29:29):
Oh, you bet that if, this existed, when the original Star
Wars was made that Darth Vader'shelmet would have emerged from a
bed of powder or something.
Patrick (29:38):
Yeah.
That ones, the whole metal thingis really cool.
I think it's got some kind ofinteresting implications of what
you could do with it, butthere's yeah, that's really
sweet.
Josh (29:48):
amazing.
That one's my favorite too.
Ian (29:51):
alright, Patrick, is it your favorite?
Patrick (29:54):
Well, I where my mind was going.
I love the idea of blacksmithingand working metal.
Like I took a class on it.
My wife got me a class for it,and it was like really, really
fun.
And no matter how hard I try toget a forge in our house is
probably just not going tohappen.
But that would give me a,probably better fire safety way
to do the things I want to do.
I would love to make replicas ofitems from games, graphic novels
(30:18):
or anything else and make reallife sized replicas of them.
kind of like they're three Dprinting for miniatures for like
maybe D and D or something elselike that.
This is just another.
Extension of that a little bitmore, I guess, meatier version
of it.
I don't know.
I don't really know how youwould say it.
Just like something you couldhold that feels real.
Cause sometimes when you holdlike a plastic, three D printed
(30:39):
object, you can kind of tell itwas three D printed, whereas a
three D printed object that'smetal might feel like, man, did
you actually make this?
Obviously me crafting it by handversus it being printed by a
machine is very different, butthat's where my mind is going.
And that's why I would think itwould for sure be my favorite is
I can finally make those thingsI've wanted to in a fraction of
(31:00):
the time and probably a littlebit safer of a way.
I'm sure.
I'm sure my wife would alsoagree that it's a little bit
safer than having a forge in ourgarage or in our backyard.
Ian (31:12):
Oh, for sure.
Well, Patrick, since youmentioned blacksmithing, I
wasn't going to bring this up,but by, since you mentioned it.
There is another type of three Dprinting that kind of lends
itself to forging.
So there is a, process calledBinder Jetting, which is another
type of three D printing.
Josh (31:32):
That's the best name so far.
Ian (31:36):
And what this does, is it basically acts just like the
powder fusion process that Ijust described where layers of
powder are laid down, butinstead of a laser exciting the
powder and making it melt andfuse a nozzle just goes along
and deposits glue within thepowder and causes it to bind
(31:58):
together.
And you can do this with allsorts of stuff.
but the most common, I thinkmost common way that this is
used is with sand where theyliterally just lay it little
layers of sand and glue thelayers together and how this is
most often used to make metalcasts.
Patrick (32:14):
Sweet.
Ian (32:15):
three D print, a sand metal cast, and then you pour molten
metal into it, let it solidify,and then just chip away the sand
on the outside.
And you have a forged metalobject.
Patrick (32:28):
It's like a perfect blending of both of those
things.
Dude.
it would save a lot of like theshaping process.
Like you could literally make apiece that's already halfway
there and then work it a forgeand blacksmithing and that sort
of thing
Josh (32:43):
that one still sounds like a lot more work if you want to
Carol Baskin someone.
Like give me dissolvable knifeor give me nothing.
Patrick (32:50):
Still going with the polyvinyl alcohol,
Ian (32:53):
Oh, my gosh.
If Carol Baskin has a three Dprinter,
Josh (32:56):
We're all doomed.
Ian (32:59):
I wonder if everyone anyone's ever asked her that.
Patrick (33:02):
I'd be afraid to.
Ian (33:03):
Alright, so we have talked about all the different families
of three D printing.
And like I said, there'svariation within all of those
but those are the fundamentalgroupings of the different types
of three D printing.
So now what I kind of want to goback and just.
Discuss with you guys is what Imentioned quite a long time ago
(33:25):
now, which is novel uses forextrusion printing, which is
where there's a machine that'sjust laying down layers of
something, you know, the mostpopular type of three D
printing, which is usuallyplastic, but there are people
who are doing this with allsorts of stuff.
So, for example, there arepeople who have scaled it up to
an industrial level and aredoing things like three D
(33:49):
printing entire boats which ispretty crazy or closer to my
heart.
three D printing, a whole homesinstead of using plastic, the
extruder is pushing outconcrete.
And it can go around and likelay down foundations and walls
just progressively from thebottom up.
Josh (34:11):
Why are we not using that?
Ian (34:14):
Well, there actually are quite a few companies who are
working on that, and it's notreally, at this point, it's not
intended to three D print, theirMcMansion, you know, like a
giant house or anything.
it's really being geared towardstrying to home the homeless
basically, right now there'scompanies that can print a house
(34:35):
for about$10,000 and they can doit in a day to two days.
And they think that they canbring that cost.
Down to less than$4,000.
And so the idea is that there'ssomething like over one and a
half billion people in the worldwho don't have adequate shelter
(34:55):
who are homeless or who live inmakeshift construction, or live
in non-permanent construction.
And so if you can, produce on amass scale and, very quickly
these homes that are actual realbuildings with solid walls, with
locking doors, with insulation,with, real foundations and real
(35:18):
waterproof roofing andeverything like that.
you could change a lot of livesand it could do so pretty
quickly.
And, when you look at thesehomes, you're kind of like, Oh
man, that's a small house, butit's nice.
they can print a 640 square foothouse that has a nice outdoor
patio and dedicated bathroom anda dedicated kitchen and a
dedicated small, study area aswell as a larger living space
(35:42):
inside it.
And requires a lot less humaninput.
Cause basically humans just needto be there to like introduce
other structural component asthe machine is going along, like
introduce the framing of thedoor.
And put the roof on the top and,you know, run the electrical
wiring, but machine does thebulk of the work.
(36:02):
And my favorite is this Italiancompany.
I think they're called waspW.A.S.P., who are not using
concrete.
They're actually trying to threeD print homes out of waste from
rice production, as well as justraw earth, just like dirt.
cause rice, I think rice is thestaple, the diet staple for,
well over half the world'spopulation, and so there's a lot
(36:25):
of unused rice waste out there.
they're trying to take thatfibrous material and mix it with
a little bit of binding agentand some dirt and kind of create
like a, a concrete, likesubstance, and print homes out
of that.
so that's super environmentallyfriendly.
They can locally source thatstuff.
They don't have to like ship itin or anything like that.
so that's even cooler people aredoing amazing things at a large
(36:49):
scale.
There's even a company who isthree D printing rockets to send
a space.
Josh (36:55):
Oh, I don't trust that.
Ian (36:57):
I know.
Right.
But I mean, when you see thesethings, it looks like a real
rocket.
And they've done a lot oftesting and they seem to be
holding up really well.
And when we're talking aboutspace exploration and space
becoming the new frontier and,having people colonize other
planets or the moon or somethinglike that, or they think they
(37:17):
can cut down on rocketproduction costs by like 80%
with three D printing
Josh (37:24):
I still get terrified of the idea of somebody being like,
Hey, here's your rocket?
And I'm like, Oh, is it good?
They're like, it's the cheapest.
It was 80% cheaper than thatguy's rocket.
Ian (37:34):
Yeah, no one put this thing together.
A machine just printed it in,like,
Josh (37:40):
Given the number of times that my printer jams, I just
don't know.
Ian (37:46):
so yeah, I'm right there with you, Josh.
I don't know if I would trust mylife to something like that, but
people are working on it andthey think it could be game
changing for the space industry.
Speaking of space my mind wasjust kind of going crazy about
where's three D printing goingto go in the future.
And I was thinking that three Dprinting is probably gonna play
a really large role incolonizing other planets.
(38:10):
Because if we can three D print,a structure out of, just dirt
and stuff on the earth, we couldprobably three D print
structures, partly out of thematerial that we find on other
planets.
It wouldn't have to pack thewhole structure.
You just have to pack thematerials needed to make the
structure.
And maybe not even all of those.
(38:32):
And I was also thinking like,when you're thinking about
sending a person to space,they're not going to be able to
run to the hardware store ifthey need something.
So up until this point, they'veprobably had to pack all sorts
of redundant, stuff with theastronauts, just in case if this
panel breaks, you've got to havea replacement.
So we've got to pack one ofthose.
Or if these screws get threaded,you need to have replacement
(38:52):
screws.
But what if an astronaut couldjust print whatever they needed
Patrick (38:57):
Like on demand.
Ian (38:58):
Just on demand.
you wouldn't have to pack any ofthat extra hardware with them.
They could just print it
Patrick (39:04):
So you're like floating off into space and you're like,
Oh shoot.
I'm not tethered to anything.
You three D print, a hammerreally quick and throw it the
other direction and you're safe.
Josh (39:12):
calm down Thor.
Ian (39:14):
Throw it the other direction.
And you're safe?
Patrick (39:16):
Yeah.
If you're floating off intospace a direction, you don't
want to go.
You got to throw the object theother direction to go backwards.
So you could like literally saveyourself with a little mini
three D printer.
Josh (39:26):
You've ruined Marvel movies for me.
Ian (39:28):
I'm imagining an astronaut in space, just like printing
baseballs, just like throwingthem into space, trying to like
propel themselves back to theirship.
Patrick (39:39):
Some alien planet just sees like this plastic baseball
hit their plan and be like,well, what the.
Ian (39:44):
Oh, man.
I'm trying to keep this as briefas I can.
Do you want to hear some othercool examples?
Josh (39:49):
Yes.
Ian (39:50):
Okay.
Yes, we are getting there nextat one more quick example,
because I think this one'sreally cool.
there is a group of people whoare using three D printing to
three D print replicas ofartwork, both actual replicas of
statues, as well asthree-dimensional renderings of
(40:10):
two dimensional art specificallyfor blind people to access.
So you scan the Mona Lisa andyou print a three dimensional
rendering of it.
And now it's something that ablind person can actually feel
and, gain an appreciation for.
Josh (40:27):
I would 100% invest in that.
Ian (40:29):
Isn't that cool.
I'd never heard of that until Ifound it in my research and I
thought that was just amazingfood.
Josh.
Here it is.
obviously humans are going tobring it back to food, right?
And so there's people who areprinting intricate edible
statues out of sugar.
There's people who are printingreally intricate things out of
(40:50):
chocolate.
there are people who are usingit to make really intricate
frosting decorations on cakesand things like that.
On Amazon, you can go on Amazonand spend about$260 to buy the
pancake bot, which is a pancakethree D printer.
And this thing is actuallypretty cool.
It's not technically 3d becauseit's just printing a flat
(41:11):
pancake, but it's using the sameprinciple of an extruder that's,
you know, depositing thatpancake batter on a griddle.
And it can actually not justmake something in any shape that
you want.
It will time different parts ofit to achieve different shading,
because like the stuff that itputs down first is going to cook
the longest and get the darkest.
(41:31):
And the stuff that lays downlast is going to get the
lightest.
it will kind of lay things downin order to not just make a
pancake the shape that you wantit, but that has like an image
on it that's shaded based oncooking time.
Josh (41:44):
No, I'm kidding.
Ian (41:48):
Last time I looked there was only one available and I
think it was a used one.
So, I don't know, maybe itdidn't take off, but it will
after this podcast airs.
Josh (41:57):
It is still on there only one left in stock.
Ian (42:05):
It's so unnecessary, but at the same time it's so ingenious
and I appreciate that someonehas produced that thing, you
know, The other thing that Ithought was kind of interesting
food wise was meat.
Josh (42:15):
No, I don't approve of this.
Ian (42:18):
this, this can be done in a couple of different ways.
you could actually grow meatcells in vitro in a lab and then
print those cells into somethingthat looks like a steak or a
hamburger, and then cook it.
And you would have a steak or ahamburger that is actually made
(42:38):
out of that animal cell.
Like you could, you could makeit out of cow cells and it would
actually be beef.
It just wouldn't be beef thatcame from a cow.
It would be beef cells that weregrown in a lab.
Josh (42:49):
You don't want to go to a restaurant and you ask what is
this?
And the waiter goes it's beef.
Ian (42:54):
It's technically beef, but it didn't come from a cow or you
could make something that lookslike a steak or like a
hamburger, but you could printit out a vegetable protein.
Josh (43:04):
Oh, I like that better.
Ian (43:05):
I like the idea of that option better Josh.
But when you see these things,the technology has a long way to
go because these three D printedvegetable steaks don't look like
steak.
They're about a 16th of an inchthick.
They're like green.
(43:29):
It was actually a great videowhere, they print one of these
and then they cook it in a panand they give it to someone to
eat, and I'm sure that theywanted them to be like, Whoa, it
tastes just like beef and theperson takes a bite and like,
they don't even swallow it.
They just look at the camera andgo, mm.
So I think that that has somepotential, you know I think that
(43:51):
we definitely need to bereplacing meat proteins with
other sources of protein.
It's a really important part inthe future of our food industry.
but I personally don't findthose veggie steaks very
appealing at this point.
Josh (44:05):
Called bif it's not beef.
It's bif.
Ian (44:08):
Okay.
So now after a longconversation, we finally arrived
at the actual question that wasasked, which is what do we think
about three D printing organs?
And what do we think about threeD printing in medicine?
So three D printing has beenused to try and print organs and
tissues, but I think it'simportant to note that it
actually right now represents alot more flexibility and a lot
(44:33):
more potential in other medicalapplications.
For example, printingspecialized instruments that are
designed specifically to work onthe patient that they're used
for, or three D printingpersonally tailored implants, or
personally tailored prostheticlimbs that that's already being
done right now.
so three D printing has thepotential to take individualized
(44:57):
medicine or the idea ofindividualized medicine to kind
of the next level.
And one of the coolest examplesof that, that I found was,
surgeons who will use three Dscan data, likes data from a
three D MRI to reproducephysical models of a patient's
body parts before surgery.
Patrick (45:14):
wow.
I can almost practice.
Ian (45:16):
Yeah, exactly.
So that they can actually pickup and feel and even practice on
the patient's specific organs,before doing the surgery.
And that can include things likethe size and the placement and
the shape of tumors or injuriesor other unique features.
Patrick (45:33):
that's really cool.
Ian (45:35):
what that enables surgeons to do is perform surgeries a lot
more quickly with a lot morepreparation.
And so one of the things that'slinked to infection rates and
complications is time spent onthe operating table.
So if you can cut down time,spend on the operating table,
and if you can make theprocedure way more exact, and
(45:56):
well-informed, there's thelikelihood of, surgeries
resulting in a lot lessinfections and complications.
Patrick (46:03):
that's insanely awesome.
Ian (46:04):
And then of course, like drew asked so many minutes ago,
you can print with living cellsand this is kinda like printing
a steak out of living cells.
but you could actually printwith skin tissue, or even bone
cells or organ cells or bloodvessels, or maybe even multiple
(46:25):
of those things at the sametime.
Josh (46:27):
And I'm assuming that because you can actually pick
the cells that are being used tothree D print, you can make it
so that it would resolve thewhole issue of the body
rejecting the organ.
Ian (46:38):
Exactly.
Exactly.
That's that's one of the mostpromising things about it is
that you could print a person, areplacement body part, or a
replacement organ out of theirown cells.
And if there's some sort ofgenetic issue with their cells
that created the problem thatnecessitates a transplant in the
first place, you could fix thatproblem with something like
(46:59):
CRISPR or gene editing system.
callback there.
So you're exactly right.
This would, not only eitherdrastically reduce, or maybe
even eliminate the wholephenomenon of the Organ
waitlist, but it may alsoaddress the issue of
compatibility, because the,statistic is really sad but on
(47:20):
average, 18 people every day inthe United States die waiting
for a transplant.
And that could either just bebecause of availability or it
could be that they're waitingfor the right match.
And so if you could addressthat, I mean that literally save
thousands of lives a year.
Patrick (47:42):
That's incredible.
Especially even things likeexterior, like ears, I've seen
instances of Burn victims whohave lost a nose or an ear, so
they can have those things thatare three D printed and, attach
those almost seamlessly sincecartilage and three D printed
material are kind of similar toone another, I don't know the
(48:02):
right.
And I don't know the, theresearch behind how they're
doing with like the trueauthenticity of that skin, but I
mean, I'm sure it's prettycomparable.
Ian (48:12):
mean, I think that we are years, if not decades away from
actually printing, replacementbody parts for people out of,
real human tissue, there may besome things like you said, like,
An ear, a nose that is just kindof like skin and cartilage or
skin and bone that, that maybewe could get to sooner than
something like a heart or, youknow, an internal organ.
(48:35):
we're probably pretty far awayfrom that point.
But until that time three Dprinting does represent a way to
do medical testing a new andnovel way.
right now, if we want to, test apharmaceutical product, we have
to either test on animals or wehave to test it on humans.
(48:57):
And it usually goes in thatorder there's usually animal
testing and then human clinicaltrials.
But if you could three D printsomething that was mostly like a
human organ or mostly like ahuman skin tissue type, you
could test products on that,which might decrease our
reliance on animal testing,which can be problematic.
(49:19):
And it might, increase oursuccess in human clinical
trials.
Cause it gives a humanalternative before actually
testing it on living humanbeings.
but eventually we will be ableto, to print things like you're
talking about Patrick, like earsand, in the weirdest proof of
concept that I've ever seen,people have already done this.
So an artist worked withbioprinting and printed Van
(49:45):
Gogh's missing ear.
Cause very famously Vincent vanGogh cut off his own ear.
And so I don't know what kind ofstatement they were trying to
make, but they printed Vincentvan Gogh's missing year and they
didn't do it out of plastic.
They did it out of human cellsand they didn't just do it out
of any human cells.
They did it out of human cellsfrom his great grandson.
Josh (50:06):
Oh, no, no.
We've gone too far.
We need to go back.
Ian (50:11):
So very strange proof of concept, but you can actually
print something like an ear.
Josh (50:17):
I'm putting this on the record right now.
If my great, great grandchildrendo anything like that, you're
cut out of the will.
Ian (50:25):
don't want them to reprint you.
Josh (50:26):
No, no, I do not want my body reprinted in any shape or
form.
Like what did great, great grandPappy look like?
Ian (50:35):
Actually that is a really good transition into maybe
talking about what do you thinkare some of the possible
drawbacks to the concept ofthree D printing human body
parts?
And I didn't even think aboutthat one, Josh, but the concept
of printing someone else's bodypart without their consent.
Josh (50:55):
Yeah, no about No.
Yeah.
See, this is my favorite part.
About every time we, as thehuman race, discover something,
we immediately have to havethese ethical conversations.
And it's so crazy because it'slike, there is no right answer.
I mean, we just talked about allof the amazing things that
(51:16):
printing body parts does for usas a society.
But there's always going to besomething creepy, masochistic,
dissolve the evidence kind ofminded person who's gonna come
in and everybody's going to say,why would you do that?
Ian (51:32):
well, I was thinking like, as soon as that technology
becomes not just about.
printing organs for people whoneed transplants or, printing
skin grafts for people who had amajor injury or something like
that.
As soon as it becomes asituation where you could
upgrade your organs, that's wand it's cool, but it's where we
(51:52):
kind of get into that, thatthing that you were just talking
about, how people are going touse it for nefarious purposes.
Like, if you could replace yourheart and lungs with, lab grown,
heart and lungs that increaseyour athletic capabilities or
something
Josh (52:06):
Yeah.
Or you three D print Paul Rudd'sface and Rob a bank.
Ian (52:12):
With your dissolvable weapons,
Josh (52:14):
Yes.
Ian (52:19):
okay.
Well, we need to, I think wrapup soon, Patrick needs to go
pick up his children fromdaycare.
so real fast before we wrap up,The future.
Where do you think three Dprinting can go in the future?
Patrick (52:33):
outer space.
Josh (52:34):
Patrick took it to where we could physically go.
Ian (52:40):
I mean, honestly, that's, that's one of the things that I
put down too.
It's like three D printing inspace.
I think it's going to happen.
In fact, it has already happenedthere is, I think a three D
printer, on a space station andthey've technically three D
printed something in space, allright, well, Patrick is out
everybody, but Josh and I aregoing to wrap up the rest of the
show.
one thing that I was thinkingthat's going to happen in the
(53:01):
future.
This process that they arecalling in situ printing, which
in this case In situ would meanprinting directly at the site of
injury.
So in a medical application, ifsomeone came in with a broken
bone, if you could print cellsto fuse that bone back together,
(53:24):
That'd be pretty amazing.
Or if someone came in with a,horrible burn or a horrible,
laceration or something likethat, you could print skin cells
directly onto the site of theinjury.
Josh (53:36):
I, I like that.
I think I prefer that.
Ian (53:40):
Then like printing something in a lab
Josh (53:41):
Yeah.
And then putting it into me, I'mjust curious how you would be
able to actually go about thatmechanism.
Cause you'd still have to openthe person up, but yeah, it
would be just be directlyattached.
I'm processing it.
That's amazing.
Ian (53:55):
it's an idea.
That's out there.
I don't think that it's beendone even experimentally.
I didn't come across anyevidence of that.
I hope I'm not wrong about that,but, it's an idea that's out
there.
So maybe, you know, in a hundredyears, that's where we're at
medically, who knows.
Is there anything else you wantto say, Josh?
Josh (54:14):
Oh, no, I'm good.
I loved this.
Ian (54:16):
Okay, cool..
All right.
So I think that's going to wrapit up for this episode of
Yondercast.
Thank you all so much forlistening.
Please subscribe to the show andreview us on Apple podcasts if
you have a moment.
If you have a question that youwould like us to answer on the
show, just fill out the surveythat you'll find linked in our
show notes.
And if you would like to contactus, just shoot us an email at
(54:37):
yondercast@gmail.com.
Thanks everybody.
Until next time, goodbye.
Josh (54:42):
bye.
Hello, everyone and welcome to Yondercast, the show where we
do our best to answer yourquestions.
My name is Ian Lake and thisweek I am joined by the amazing
Patrick Leitch and anotherperson who I guess happens to
also be here Josh Baltzell.
Josh (00:21):
Hi.
Ian (00:22):
You guys, before we get things going, this is the first
episode that we're recordingafter we actually went live with
the show.
And so people have heard theshow at this point, and I am
very excited to tell you that wehave reviews on Apple podcasts.
We have four, five star reviewson Apple podcasts, and none of
(00:45):
them are my mom.
So that means that we're reallydoing something right.
I want to read you guys some ofthe things that people say about
our show.
Patrick (00:54):
Oh boy.
Ian (00:54):
So one user, user likeaustralia89 says this is a
fun podcast.
That's both entertaining andinformative topics are explained
in a way that's easy tounderstand for the whole family.
And then user gobowman.
10 out of 10 recommend.
This is a fantastic podcast fromsome really great teachers/guys.
(01:16):
The show is super funny and theguys have great chemistry
together covers a large range oftopics successfully.
If you like star talk radio,you'll love this.
Josh (01:24):
You go go Bowman.
Ian (01:29):
And that gives me another podcast to check out as well,
which is cool.
we are also coming back from alittle bit of a break.
We haven't done any recording ina few weeks and we haven't
released any episodes in alittle while.
And as we explained in our,special message, that was the
last thing that we released.
That's due to, the Black LivesMatter movement and our desire
to give ourselves and ourlisteners some time to really
(01:52):
fully engage with that.
And really s tart the learningprocess and start the activism
process.
So how have you guys been doingwith that?
Josh (02:02):
I've been really enjoying the volume of YouTube videos
that discuss equity-basededucation.
Cause I think that that'ssomething that speaks to all
three of us a lot recently.
And so it's just been reallyexciting and I hope that the
trend continues that peoplestart putting more focus on how
we can make education moreequitable from like a cultural
(02:23):
perspective.
Patrick (02:24):
I do love that.
We've actually downloaded a fewaudio books and since the family
has been kind of busy and don'treally have time to sit down and
actually physically read, we'llactually just put them on as
we're doing things around thehouse.
And I know my two year oldprobably can't understand what's
being said, but it's kind of aninteresting thing that he'll be
growing up in a household wherewe do have all these social
(02:45):
justice issues going on andhopefully he can pick up on some
of that throughout it, whetherwe're buying all inclusive books
or listening to podcasts,watching YouTube videos, those
are just reflecting ourselvesand kind of talking about it as
a group.
Josh (03:01):
I think one of my favorite parts about doing this research
has been having those reallydifficult conversations with
people that don't necessarilywant to have those
conversations.
I have some family members thatI know that with, a couple of
family members, we've hadconversations that went upwards
of like six hours.
Just talking about things thatcertain people don't want to
(03:23):
hear.
Patrick (03:24):
But it's that's impressive.
Six hours.
Josh (03:26):
Oh yeah.
That was a fun conversation.
Ian (03:29):
Yeah, I've been, I've been doing some.
Some learning and some growingmyself, I purchased book white
fragility, which is one of thebooks that we recommended in our
special message.
And it's, one of the books onanti-racism and, and just on
understanding white supremacyand white privilege and I'm
about 35% through reading it orsomething.
(03:50):
And it's a really, reallyexcellent read.
I think it's definitelyworthwhile.
it's been very eyeopening.
And I also listened to the 16 19podcast.
I listened to the whole thing inlike two days.
There's only six episodes andthey're about 35 to 40 minutes
each.
And it's really excellent.
It's not what I expected.
I expected it to be the way thatthey describe it is it sounds
(04:14):
like it's the story of the firstship that arrived, carrying
slaves in the Americas andthere's actually very little
about that.
And they can say right at thebeginning of the show that they
don't have a lot of informationabout that.
So it's not really show aboutthat specific historical event,
but it's an excellent show, justabout many, many aspects of
(04:39):
racism throughout the centuriesand ways that it has affected
black people that I didn'tpreviously know about or didn't
expect.
There's some really, reallyeyeopening stuff in there too.
So for our listeners, I thinkthat this is probably going to
be something that we come backto and revisit often.
And since we're all engaging init, it'll be stuff that we talk
(05:02):
about fairly regularly.
Other things that we seem totalk about fairly regularly
include my kidney stones.
And I have,
Patrick (05:10):
Oh, no.
Is there another one?
Ian (05:11):
I have news on that front.
I said goodbye to my kidneystone two days ago.
I finally had my followupappointment and they had to take
my kidney stone to the lab totest it so I said goodbye, it's
kind of embarrassing to admit,but, you know, it was kind of
hard to say goodbye.
Josh (05:30):
So they let you keep it, but then they asked for it back.
Ian (05:33):
Well, so gosh, not to get into like too much information,
but you have to catch it.
You have to try and catch it,uh, which I succeeded in doing
and then you have to take it into get tested.
and just with what's going onin, medicine right now, it took
until now for me to be broughtin for that followup
appointment.
Josh (05:51):
I have important questions?
Ian (05:54):
Yes.
What's your important question?
Josh (05:56):
What Did you use to catch it?
Ian (05:58):
they give you.
Basically like a little strainer
Patrick (06:02):
I was going to say, I was thinking like a colander
from the kitchen.
Josh (06:05):
was just going to say like what size colander?
Ian (06:08):
it's it's kinda like that.
It's kinda like that, but afiner mesh.
Patrick (06:12):
That's awesome.
Ian (06:13):
I asked it jokingly, but I kind of meant it when the
technician was taking it fromme.
I said, When are you going tomail this back to me?
She did not think I was jokingat first.
I had to, I had to clarify thatI was mostly joking.
Patrick (06:30):
you have to pay the postage there?
Ian (06:32):
I hope that the bills would include postage.
Otherwise oh boy.
Josh (06:40):
And is this like an envelope or?
Ian (06:43):
No, you guys really want to know a lot more about this than
I was expecting.
No, they had me put it in thelittle plastic container, like a
pill box.
Josh (06:50):
Did you have to mark "fragile"?
Ian (06:52):
No, that thing is not fragile.
That thing is, it's a rock.
It's definitely not fragile.
It's a sharp rock.
let's move on and talk aboutsomething else.
What else, what else has beengoing on in your guys's lives?
Patrick (07:07):
I've been digging a lot in my backyard moving a
retaining wall.
So I've also been engaging withsharp rocks.
Ian (07:14):
yeah, you sent us some pictures.
That looks really nice.
Patrick (07:17):
Oh, there's so much dirt.
So if you guys need like, justliterally dirt for anything,
just let me know.
I'll find a way to get it toyou.
Ian (07:26):
you're clearing out space for a fire pit.
Is that right?
Patrick (07:28):
Yeah, it should be like a fire pit and a little seating
area.
Just something to add a littlevalue to the house too.
I've been thinking about it forlike the four years that we've
been here and I just never quitegot the go ahead from the better
half.
So I think this summer, we justhad the time and the sort of
energy.
I just worked for six hours thefirst day and took a day off and
(07:49):
then four hours and then took aday off today was like two
hours.
Ian (07:54):
Yeah.
If you keep that, it'll be 30minutes in two days and then
like 10 minutes, two days afterthat,
Patrick (08:00):
Yeah, I'm getting old.
Not as spry I used to be.
Ian (08:04):
I mean, that is hard work for anybody.
look forward to that turning outand then someday recording a
podcast around the fireplace inyour backyard.
Anything else exciting going onin either of your lives?
Josh (08:18):
I started my classes.
That's not terribly interestingthough.
I don't know.
I find them interesting.
Usually when I start talkingabout my classes, people's eyes
glaze over and they just nodtheir head approvingly like good
for you for finding that lamething.
Cool.
Ian (08:33):
Josh for our listeners who might not know what you're
doing.
Can you tell them what you'retaking classes for and what
you're working towards?
Josh (08:40):
yeah, so I'm getting a degree in neuroeducation it's
the whole concept is we takelanguage neuroscience and
cognitive psychology and kind ofmush it together into one field.
So that way we can betterunderstand how students learn.
So right now we're studying howthe mind and the brain are the
(09:00):
same thing.
There's this misconception thatthey're two separate things and
it's called the duality, pointof view.
But we're trying to focus on thefact that the mind and the brain
are actually the same thing.
just the mind is our languageinterpretation of stimuli.
Ian (09:17):
and at the end of this process, correct me if I'm
wrong, but you will have a PhD.
Is that correct?
Josh (09:22):
Yes.
Ian (09:24):
Wow.
So someday I will get tointroduce you as my mediocre
friend, Dr.
Josh Baltzell.
Josh (09:32):
less mediocre.
Patrick (09:35):
is the, this is like maybe going too deep, but it's
like the brain versus the mindkind of like the body versus the
soul.
Is that the idea that they'retrying to move away from that
conception or misconceptionrather?
Josh (09:50):
Well, it depends on who you're talking to.
Cause there are some people thatstill firmly believe that the
mind and the brain are twocompletely separate things.
so yeah, it's, it's kind of aphilosophy, but yeah, I think
that that's a good metaphor.
The body soul mind, brain idea.
Patrick (10:05):
I like it.
See, I would find that veryinteresting.
I know you say people's eyesglaze over, but I think a lot of
our listeners would probablyfind that discussion.
Very interesting too
Josh (10:14):
Oh, yeah.
It's, it's pretty exciting.
Ian (10:16):
That might have to, that might have to come back on the
show at some point in a littlebit more, more depth.
That does sound reallyinteresting.
Josh (10:22):
Yeah.
Maybe later I can blow yourguys's minds with, time
perception.
Oh no.
Patrick (10:27):
know.
Ian (10:30):
Uh, well, in the interest of time perception, do you guys
want to talk about our listenerquestion for this week?
Oh, no.
Did I lose you
Josh (10:40):
I think Ian froze.
Patrick (10:42):
I wish I could take a screenshot because he's got a
really good smile on
Ian (10:46):
Everything is frozen.
Josh (10:48):
probably talking right now and
Ian (10:49):
Where are you?
Josh?
Patrick?
Patrick (10:53):
I wonder if he's just going to pop back at some point,
just in mid discussion.
Josh (10:57):
And that's how I reabsorbed my kidney stone.
Ian (11:03):
We are just everyone knows.
We just had our first, technicalissues, where our recording
session froze.
So we are coming back afterfiguring that out.
so, hello everyone.
There was probably nointerruption for you, but there
definitely was for us.
Patrick, what were you saying?
Patrick (11:18):
So this is kind of looping back to the kidney stone
question.
Ian (11:21):
Okay.
Josh (11:24):
We're not over it.
Patrick (11:25):
yeah, that was so when, when we went down, it went back
to that and we weren't, we stillhad questions.
So does that mean you're kind oflike an oyster and you made a
Pearl?
Ian (11:35):
Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
Patrick (11:40):
It's literally like homemade jewelry.
Josh (11:42):
My mom has a rock polisher.
Patrick (11:44):
Oh, that's a really good idea.
Throw it in the tumbler
Ian (11:48):
I wonder if anyone has done that before.
Josh (11:50):
Oh.
You know, someone has, there arepeople grosser than us in the
world.
Patrick (11:57):
anyways.
Okay.
I just had to clear that up.
It was, it was burning a hole inmy brain or minder one of those.
Ian (12:03):
All right.
I'm happy to field morequestions about my kidney
stones, but is that it for now?
Patrick (12:08):
for now.
Ian (12:09):
Okay.
I'm glad that those questionsaren't burning a hole in your
brain anymore.
Cause I know what that feelslike.
Cause the kidney stone burned ahole through my body.
So.
All right.
You guys, let's talk about ourlistener question for this week
from our listener drew who asksus,"What do you think about 3D
(12:29):
printing, specifically theconcept of 3D printing human
organs?" So I'm going to takethis one.
I've done quite a bit ofresearch on this, and I just
want to see if either of you,before I get into it, want to
explain what 3D printing is.
Josh (12:46):
Oh,
Ian (12:47):
Actually I'm going to ask both of you to just kind of tell
me, how do you think 3D printingworks?
Josh (12:52):
so you have a box and the box has a little injector
needle, and it's kind of likedrawing pictures, but instead of
drawing pictures, it's makingthings.
And whatever the ink is, the inkis usually actually like some
kind of stuff I'm getting supertechnical.
(13:13):
I hope that you guys can keep upwith me and that stuff is used
to make the object.
Ian (13:20):
Dr Baltzell indeed.
Patrick, do you have anythingyou want to add to that?
Patrick (13:27):
that.
That was a good one.
I was thinking like, I guess mymind went like a, like a tattoo
gun, but in three dimensions andthe ink is like plastic, so it's
a little bit thicker and it'ssort of liquid to start and then
it kind of sets.
And you kind of input a littlecode of where that needle wants
to go.
And it kind of does it in layersor whatnot, but that I like the
(13:47):
things in the stuff version now.
Cause I really don't know
Josh (13:50):
stuffs and things.
Patrick (13:52):
things and stuffs.
Josh (13:54):
And for Organs it's just Organ juice.
Patrick (13:56):
Yeah.
Ian (13:57):
Right.
Of course.
So you guys are actually reallyon the right track.
What you're describing is.
The most common and most widelyused and most widely known type
of three D printing, it's calledfused deposition modeling or
extrusion printing.
And I'm going to talk to you alittle bit more about what that
(14:20):
is and, how it can work.
and then we're going to talkabout some of the other types of
three D printing that you mayhave not heard about.
I'm going to kind of go throughlike four different types of
three D printing and how theyfunction differently and, and
what their strengths andweaknesses are.
And it's it, it will get verycool.
And then we'll talk about kindof like the craziest stuff that
(14:42):
people are doing with three Dprinting and the crazy stuff
that they think they're going tobe able to do in the future.
So.
I'll try to be as brief as I canbecause I really enjoyed
researching this topic.
So you're talking about fuseddeposition modeling, which is
basically a box Josh.
It's a box and there's kind of alittle needle.
(15:04):
It's called the nozzle and.
There is a spool of plastic thatyou feed into it.
And you can use lots ofdifferent types of plastics,
depending on what machine youhave, an our kind of stuff Stuff
exactly.
And what the machine does is itwill feed that spool of plastic
into the nozzle and the nozzlewill melt that plastic and.
(15:28):
Deposit it on a flat surface andit does it layer by layer.
So it kind of builds thesereally thin layers.
And as it builds layer on top oflayer on top of layer, it starts
to form a three dimensionalstructure.
it's kinda like a hot glue gun,actually.
You know how you feed that likesolid glue in the back and then
it heats it up and liquid gluecomes out the front it's like
(15:50):
that, except it's plastic.
Josh (15:52):
I love hot glue guns.
Ian (15:54):
You would love three D printing then Josh.
And so.
This is all done automaticallyby a computer.
It's not like you're not likemanually.
They actually do have like threeD printing pens that you can do
it manually and stuff, which arereally cool.
But generally it's done by acomputer where you create a
three dimensional model on thecomputer and then the printer
figures out how to section thatinto really thin layers and
(16:17):
layer them on top of one anotherand build a three D structure
and.
So that's the most common waythat three D printing is managed
or is accomplished.
And this is also the mostwidespread technology, partly
because there's been some crazyprice drops in this technology
in the last few years, to thepoint where the cheapest three D
(16:39):
printer that uses thistechnology that I could find is
$99.
You can get a three D printerfor a hundred bucks and it's
pretty basic, but you can getthere's a lot of models, like
good ones that are highly ratedthat people enjoy for between
like 170 and$300.
So these types of machines areat the consumer price point at
(17:01):
this point, like it is somethingthat people could have in their
own homes.
and you can get a really niceone, like a lot of the models
that are intended for productdesigners or classrooms, you
know, things that are going toget a lot more use are usually
at the like$2,000 mark.
And then they kind ofprogressively go up from there,
depending on what fit, size andresolution and capabilities you
(17:24):
want from it.
So, the price of three Dprinters is pretty impressive at
this point.
And that's what most people haveencountered when it comes to
three D printing, because thatis main type of three D printing
that's out there that people aredoing.
But there's some othertechnologies that exist right
now, that as I was learningabout them, open my eyes to what
(17:46):
3d printing can reallyaccomplish, one of the
limitations to that type ofprinting is that what you're
printing has to have a flatbottom, or at least has to have
a flat side, cause it has to siton a surface and it has to not
fall over while you're printingit.
And you also can't really printthings with long structures or
really spindly structuresbecause it's melted plastic.
(18:08):
So as you're printing that, it'sjust going to like droop over
and fall, and it's not going towork or it's going to break off
during the process or something.
So if you want to printsomething that has any sort of
feature, like a really thinsection or, you know, long
spikes that come off of it, thatyou don't want to bend, or you
want to print something withoutany flat sides, you need a dual
(18:30):
extruder printer.
Which functions exactly like thestandard FDM printers, except
that it can print with twodifferent materials.
And so you could obviously printsomething with like two
different colors of materials,or you can print something with
a hard plastic and a substancelike PVA polyvinyl alcohol which
(18:53):
is a water soluble material.
And what that allows you to dois it allows you to print in
dissolvable support structures.
So if you want it to printsomething, for example, like a
sphere that doesn't have anyflat sides, you could do that by
basically surrounding thatsphear with printed support
(19:13):
structure.
And then all you have to do isdunk that in water afterwards,
and the polyvinyl alcohol willdissolve away from it.
And you'll be left with thestructure in the middle.
Josh (19:23):
It's the perfect murder weapon.
Ian (19:25):
Wow.
Josh you're actually right, butHoly cow, that's scary.
Um, yeah, so, I didn't thinkabout that as being one of its
potentials that you can printuntraceable.
Did structures.
but you can print things withoutflat sides.
You can print things with muchfiner details.
(19:47):
and here's what I think isreally cool.
You can print stuff with movingparts.
So like if something that you'reprinting has gears in it, for
instance, you just have to printlike a really thin layer of that
dissolvable material between themoving parts.
And then as long as water canget in there and dissolve that
material away, you could printin a single run without having
(20:08):
to assemble it afterwards, youcould print something with like
moving parts.
Josh (20:12):
That's incredible.
Ian (20:13):
you can already kind of like see the potential of that,
right?
So.
that style of printing calledmaterial extrusion, which is
basically just where a materialis pushed through a nozzle and
used to build something can beapplied to not just plastic, but
almost any other material thatyou can think of.
But we're going to come back tothat.
(20:34):
So here's a few other ways thatthree D printers work, there are
3D printers out there that arecalled Vat Polymerization
printers, which is more commonlycalled resin printing.
And what these do is they form asolid object out of a pool of
liquid.
So it's a, it's a materialcalled resin that when exposed
(20:55):
to certain ultraviolet light,hardens into a solid and.
So the way that these work isbasically they kind of print
upside down, especially comparedto the other ones that we were
just describing because they,they will lower a stage into a
pool of liquid and then use alaser, a UV laser to trace the
(21:18):
layer that they want to build onthat stage, and then raise the
stage up and do the same thingfor the next layer and keep
going like that.
So if you watch a time lapsevideo of what this looks like.
It looks like this machine isjust pulling a solid object out
of a pool of liquid.
It's very cool.
Patrick (21:39):
If you put it in reverse, as it looked like it's
destroying the entire thing.
Ian (21:43):
Yeah, it would look like it's like melting it.
So.
So this technology, even thoughit's not as well known is
actually the other type of threeD printing that is available at
the consumer level.
they're more expensive than thebasic, three D printers, but you
can get good resin printer foras little as$210.
(22:03):
a lot of them are around the$500mark and there's pros and cons
to this approach.
Because it's using a L usually alaser or light as the thing
that's drawing the image.
These types of printers canusually accomplish a lot higher
resolution and a lot more detailand a lot more smooth surfaces
on the outside of the print.
(22:24):
And so you can get nicer objectswith it generally.
But it hasn't caught on as muchbecause, well, first of all,
it's more expensive and resin ismore expensive than plastic
spools of material that feedinto the other type of printer.
But also the resin is reallytoxic.
So you're dealing with a toxicliquid, which means you've got
(22:44):
to wear eye protection.
You've got to wear gloves.
It's a liquid that has atendency to spill or have
droplets that go everywhere.
So you've got this like mess oftoxic material and also you have
to cure the Prints after you'redone with them.
So when you take them off themachine, you have to cure them
either by using an ultravioletlight source or by using more
(23:07):
chemicals that you kind of stirit around into finally solidify
everything and to kind of sealit all up.
That's another step in theprocess.
It's another expense.
And so for those reasons,generally consumer level users,
don't prefer resin printers.
Although some people do,
Patrick (23:23):
Yeah, I'm sure us being chemistry, teachers that just
straight up gives me anxietythinking that there's people out
there working with that stuffthat might not know those
things.
Josh (23:32):
They're not wearing gloves.
They're tasting it.
I made a spoon.
Ian (23:38):
Oh, yeah.
Big people, people printingtheir own dining utensils out of
this toxic plastic material.
I'm sure.
I'm sure people have done it.
Patrick (23:47):
Very cool though.
Ian (23:48):
I also didn't mention that these processes produce toxic
fumes.
you know, you're meltingplastics, especially resin,
liquid resin gives off toxicfumes.
And so you've got to have goodventilation if you're going to
do three D printing.
So those are the three Dprinting mainstays.
Those are the technologies thathave really blown up, but there
(24:09):
are two other technologies thatI think are worth mentioning.
The first is material jetting,which is a, it's a process that
works exactly like an inkjetprinter.
In fact, they say it's built oninkjet technology.
So it's basically a machine thatlooks like a printer and it has
a square printing head, like,you'd see on an inkjet printer.
(24:29):
And it just goes across anddeposits an entire layer of
material at once.
And it's kind of like a marriageof the other two because it's
building the thing from theground up, layer by layer but
the material that it's using isa liquid that it.
Deposits in little droplets andthen cures with a UV light as it
goes across.
(24:50):
So it's kind of like, it's kindof like a mixture between the
other two,
Patrick (24:55):
that one sounds fun.
Ian (24:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's really cool.
And it's really fast.
but it has some limitations.
Those structures are generallynot quite as strong as the ones
that are built with the othertechnologies that I already
talked about.
So it's really for people whoare prototyping a lot.
And I should mention for peoplewho are out there, who are going
to get mad at me for, you know,not mentioning every
possibility, there arevariations on all of these
(25:19):
technologies and there's likemillions of different materials
for all of these technologies,including, brands and companies
that are producing their ownmaterials, with, you know,
patented chemistry behind them.
In fact, I thought about buyinga three D printer a couple of
months ago because I found aplan online for three D printing
(25:42):
face masks The reason I didn'tgo forward with it is because
you really kind of need thisspecial material that was sold
out.
But the material was made by acompany.
I think they're called Copper 3Dif I'm remembering correctly.
And they produce a plastic,that's kind of a, a more
flexible plastic and it hascopper ions in it.
(26:05):
And it's specifically for thingslike facemasks because copper
has anti-microbial andantifungal and antiviral
properties, copper ions, disruptcell membranes and disrupt DNA
and stuff like that.
So that it's really good atkilling things like viruses.
So building a face mask out ofit during a viral pandemic makes
(26:26):
a lot of sense.
Josh (26:27):
that's incredible.
Patrick (26:29):
You could also three D print, a replica of your kidney
stone.
Ian (26:32):
Who says I haven't Patrick.
I mean, they, they, they're notgoing to give it back to me.
So I got to make a keepsakesomehow.
I'm going to do it in like fivetimes the size though.
Josh (26:42):
But claimed that that's the actual size.
Ian (26:45):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Patrick (26:46):
kidney stones look larger than they appear.
Ian (26:49):
They feel larger than they appear.
Josh (26:52):
I've heard that.
Ian (26:53):
It's true.
okay.
I have one more type of three Dprinting to tell you guys about,
I apologize for geeking out sohard, but this is my favorite.
I saved my favorite for last,The last type of three D
printing is called Powder BedFusion.
Patrick (27:07):
it's got the best name too.
Ian (27:09):
Oh, it does.
And it's super cool.
it's an incredible technologybecause basically what this is,
is a machine that lays down athin flat layer of powder, and
then a laser shines down on thatpowder in a specific pattern and
it melts that powder and causesit to bind together.
(27:29):
And then the machine lowers thestage a little bit lays another
really thin layer of powder ontop of what was already there.
And then the laser carves, thenext layer and makes it melt and
bind together and bind to thelayer beneath it.
And it just keeps doing this andkeeps, binding these layers
together until it completes theobject And the reason why I
(27:51):
think that this is the coolestone is because number one, There
is no need for supportstructures, because basically
the object is printed in anenvironment of unused powder.
So the surrounding powder actslike the support.
So you can kind of printwhatever you want.
And there's no need to printadditional supports because the
environment supports thestructure as it's being printed.
(28:14):
Also the unused powder thatsurrounds the whole object can
just be recycled and like putback in the machine and it can
use it for the next print.
Josh (28:22):
That was my question.
Ian (28:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
When you do the supportstructure stuff, you know,
you're wasting a lot of materialjust on the supports.
but with powder-based ones,you're not really wasting any
material.
The structures that are made area lot stronger You can do this
with not just plastic, you cando it with lots of different
kinds of plastic, but you canalso do this with metal
stainless steel, aluminumtitanium.
(28:46):
And so now we're talking aboutlike three D printing, actual
real objects that can hold forceand, you know, we can print
hardware that way It's also the,most of the attrical.
Because at the end of the wholeprint is basically hidden in
this pool of powder.
And then at the end of theprint, the machine raises the
bed and like all the powder justfalls away from the thing that
(29:09):
you printed and it just kind ofmerges out of this bed of
powder.
And then you have to brush awaythe extra powder like you're an
archeologist, you know, it's themost theatrical one, too.
Patrick (29:18):
I like to envision the Imperial death march playing as
they're revealing, whatever itwas like.
Bum bum, bum, bum, bum, bum,just the dust falling away.
Ian (29:29):
Oh, you bet that if, this existed, when the original Star
Wars was made that Darth Vader'shelmet would have emerged from a
bed of powder or something.
Patrick (29:38):
Yeah.
That ones, the whole metal thingis really cool.
I think it's got some kind ofinteresting implications of what
you could do with it, butthere's yeah, that's really
sweet.
Josh (29:48):
amazing.
That one's my favorite too.
Ian (29:51):
alright, Patrick, is it your favorite?
Patrick (29:54):
Well, I where my mind was going.
I love the idea of blacksmithingand working metal.
Like I took a class on it.
My wife got me a class for it,and it was like really, really
fun.
And no matter how hard I try toget a forge in our house is
probably just not going tohappen.
But that would give me a,probably better fire safety way
to do the things I want to do.
I would love to make replicas ofitems from games, graphic novels
(30:18):
or anything else and make reallife sized replicas of them.
kind of like they're three Dprinting for miniatures for like
maybe D and D or something elselike that.
This is just another.
Extension of that a little bitmore, I guess, meatier version
of it.
I don't know.
I don't really know how youwould say it.
Just like something you couldhold that feels real.
Cause sometimes when you holdlike a plastic, three D printed
(30:39):
object, you can kind of tell itwas three D printed, whereas a
three D printed object that'smetal might feel like, man, did
you actually make this?
Obviously me crafting it by handversus it being printed by a
machine is very different, butthat's where my mind is going.
And that's why I would think itwould for sure be my favorite is
I can finally make those thingsI've wanted to in a fraction of
(31:00):
the time and probably a littlebit safer of a way.
I'm sure.
I'm sure my wife would alsoagree that it's a little bit
safer than having a forge in ourgarage or in our backyard.
Ian (31:12):
Oh, for sure.
Well, Patrick, since youmentioned blacksmithing, I
wasn't going to bring this up,but by, since you mentioned it.
There is another type of three Dprinting that kind of lends
itself to forging.
So there is a, process calledBinder Jetting, which is another
type of three D printing.
Josh (31:32):
That's the best name so far.
Ian (31:36):
And what this does, is it basically acts just like the
powder fusion process that Ijust described where layers of
powder are laid down, butinstead of a laser exciting the
powder and making it melt andfuse a nozzle just goes along
and deposits glue within thepowder and causes it to bind
(31:58):
together.
And you can do this with allsorts of stuff.
but the most common, I thinkmost common way that this is
used is with sand where theyliterally just lay it little
layers of sand and glue thelayers together and how this is
most often used to make metalcasts.
Patrick (32:14):
Sweet.
Ian (32:15):
three D print, a sand metal cast, and then you pour molten
metal into it, let it solidify,and then just chip away the sand
on the outside.
And you have a forged metalobject.
Patrick (32:28):
It's like a perfect blending of both of those
things.
Dude.
it would save a lot of like theshaping process.
Like you could literally make apiece that's already halfway
there and then work it a forgeand blacksmithing and that sort
of thing
Josh (32:43):
that one still sounds like a lot more work if you want to
Carol Baskin someone.
Like give me dissolvable knifeor give me nothing.
Patrick (32:50):
Still going with the polyvinyl alcohol,
Ian (32:53):
Oh, my gosh.
If Carol Baskin has a three Dprinter,
Josh (32:56):
We're all doomed.
Ian (32:59):
I wonder if everyone anyone's ever asked her that.
Patrick (33:02):
I'd be afraid to.
Ian (33:03):
Alright, so we have talked about all the different families
of three D printing.
And like I said, there'svariation within all of those
but those are the fundamentalgroupings of the different types
of three D printing.
So now what I kind of want to goback and just.
Discuss with you guys is what Imentioned quite a long time ago
(33:25):
now, which is novel uses forextrusion printing, which is
where there's a machine that'sjust laying down layers of
something, you know, the mostpopular type of three D
printing, which is usuallyplastic, but there are people
who are doing this with allsorts of stuff.
So, for example, there arepeople who have scaled it up to
an industrial level and aredoing things like three D
(33:49):
printing entire boats which ispretty crazy or closer to my
heart.
three D printing, a whole homesinstead of using plastic, the
extruder is pushing outconcrete.
And it can go around and likelay down foundations and walls
just progressively from thebottom up.
Josh (34:11):
Why are we not using that?
Ian (34:14):
Well, there actually are quite a few companies who are
working on that, and it's notreally, at this point, it's not
intended to three D print, theirMcMansion, you know, like a
giant house or anything.
it's really being geared towardstrying to home the homeless
basically, right now there'scompanies that can print a house
(34:35):
for about$10,000 and they can doit in a day to two days.
And they think that they canbring that cost.
Down to less than$4,000.
And so the idea is that there'ssomething like over one and a
half billion people in the worldwho don't have adequate shelter
(34:55):
who are homeless or who live inmakeshift construction, or live
in non-permanent construction.
And so if you can, produce on amass scale and, very quickly
these homes that are actual realbuildings with solid walls, with
locking doors, with insulation,with, real foundations and real
(35:18):
waterproof roofing andeverything like that.
you could change a lot of livesand it could do so pretty
quickly.
And, when you look at thesehomes, you're kind of like, Oh
man, that's a small house, butit's nice.
they can print a 640 square foothouse that has a nice outdoor
patio and dedicated bathroom anda dedicated kitchen and a
dedicated small, study area aswell as a larger living space
(35:42):
inside it.
And requires a lot less humaninput.
Cause basically humans just needto be there to like introduce
other structural component asthe machine is going along, like
introduce the framing of thedoor.
And put the roof on the top and,you know, run the electrical
wiring, but machine does thebulk of the work.
(36:02):
And my favorite is this Italiancompany.
I think they're called waspW.A.S.P., who are not using
concrete.
They're actually trying to threeD print homes out of waste from
rice production, as well as justraw earth, just like dirt.
cause rice, I think rice is thestaple, the diet staple for,
well over half the world'spopulation, and so there's a lot
(36:25):
of unused rice waste out there.
they're trying to take thatfibrous material and mix it with
a little bit of binding agentand some dirt and kind of create
like a, a concrete, likesubstance, and print homes out
of that.
so that's super environmentallyfriendly.
They can locally source thatstuff.
They don't have to like ship itin or anything like that.
so that's even cooler people aredoing amazing things at a large
(36:49):
scale.
There's even a company who isthree D printing rockets to send
a space.
Josh (36:55):
Oh, I don't trust that.
Ian (36:57):
I know.
Right.
But I mean, when you see thesethings, it looks like a real
rocket.
And they've done a lot oftesting and they seem to be
holding up really well.
And when we're talking aboutspace exploration and space
becoming the new frontier and,having people colonize other
planets or the moon or somethinglike that, or they think they
(37:17):
can cut down on rocketproduction costs by like 80%
with three D printing
Josh (37:24):
I still get terrified of the idea of somebody being like,
Hey, here's your rocket?
And I'm like, Oh, is it good?
They're like, it's the cheapest.
It was 80% cheaper than thatguy's rocket.
Ian (37:34):
Yeah, no one put this thing together.
A machine just printed it in,like,
Josh (37:40):
Given the number of times that my printer jams, I just
don't know.
Ian (37:46):
so yeah, I'm right there with you, Josh.
I don't know if I would trust mylife to something like that, but
people are working on it andthey think it could be game
changing for the space industry.
Speaking of space my mind wasjust kind of going crazy about
where's three D printing goingto go in the future.
And I was thinking that three Dprinting is probably gonna play
a really large role incolonizing other planets.
(38:10):
Because if we can three D print,a structure out of, just dirt
and stuff on the earth, we couldprobably three D print
structures, partly out of thematerial that we find on other
planets.
It wouldn't have to pack thewhole structure.
You just have to pack thematerials needed to make the
structure.
And maybe not even all of those.
(38:32):
And I was also thinking like,when you're thinking about
sending a person to space,they're not going to be able to
run to the hardware store ifthey need something.
So up until this point, they'veprobably had to pack all sorts
of redundant, stuff with theastronauts, just in case if this
panel breaks, you've got to havea replacement.
So we've got to pack one ofthose.
Or if these screws get threaded,you need to have replacement
(38:52):
screws.
But what if an astronaut couldjust print whatever they needed
Patrick (38:57):
Like on demand.
Ian (38:58):
Just on demand.
you wouldn't have to pack any ofthat extra hardware with them.
They could just print it
Patrick (39:04):
So you're like floating off into space and you're like,
Oh shoot.
I'm not tethered to anything.
You three D print, a hammerreally quick and throw it the
other direction and you're safe.
Josh (39:12):
calm down Thor.
Ian (39:14):
Throw it the other direction.
And you're safe?
Patrick (39:16):
Yeah.
If you're floating off intospace a direction, you don't
want to go.
You got to throw the object theother direction to go backwards.
So you could like literally saveyourself with a little mini
three D printer.
Josh (39:26):
You've ruined Marvel movies for me.
Ian (39:28):
I'm imagining an astronaut in space, just like printing
baseballs, just like throwingthem into space, trying to like
propel themselves back to theirship.
Patrick (39:39):
Some alien planet just sees like this plastic baseball
hit their plan and be like,well, what the.
Ian (39:44):
Oh, man.
I'm trying to keep this as briefas I can.
Do you want to hear some othercool examples?
Josh (39:49):
Yes.
Ian (39:50):
Okay.
Yes, we are getting there nextat one more quick example,
because I think this one'sreally cool.
there is a group of people whoare using three D printing to
three D print replicas ofartwork, both actual replicas of
statues, as well asthree-dimensional renderings of
(40:10):
two dimensional art specificallyfor blind people to access.
So you scan the Mona Lisa andyou print a three dimensional
rendering of it.
And now it's something that ablind person can actually feel
and, gain an appreciation for.
Josh (40:27):
I would 100% invest in that.
Ian (40:29):
Isn't that cool.
I'd never heard of that until Ifound it in my research and I
thought that was just amazingfood.
Josh.
Here it is.
obviously humans are going tobring it back to food, right?
And so there's people who areprinting intricate edible
statues out of sugar.
There's people who are printingreally intricate things out of
(40:50):
chocolate.
there are people who are usingit to make really intricate
frosting decorations on cakesand things like that.
On Amazon, you can go on Amazonand spend about$260 to buy the
pancake bot, which is a pancakethree D printer.
And this thing is actuallypretty cool.
It's not technically 3d becauseit's just printing a flat
(41:11):
pancake, but it's using the sameprinciple of an extruder that's,
you know, depositing thatpancake batter on a griddle.
And it can actually not justmake something in any shape that
you want.
It will time different parts ofit to achieve different shading,
because like the stuff that itputs down first is going to cook
the longest and get the darkest.
(41:31):
And the stuff that lays downlast is going to get the
lightest.
it will kind of lay things downin order to not just make a
pancake the shape that you wantit, but that has like an image
on it that's shaded based oncooking time.
Josh (41:44):
No, I'm kidding.
Ian (41:48):
Last time I looked there was only one available and I
think it was a used one.
So, I don't know, maybe itdidn't take off, but it will
after this podcast airs.
Josh (41:57):
It is still on there only one left in stock.
Ian (42:05):
It's so unnecessary, but at the same time it's so ingenious
and I appreciate that someonehas produced that thing, you
know, The other thing that Ithought was kind of interesting
food wise was meat.
Josh (42:15):
No, I don't approve of this.
Ian (42:18):
this, this can be done in a couple of different ways.
you could actually grow meatcells in vitro in a lab and then
print those cells into somethingthat looks like a steak or a
hamburger, and then cook it.
And you would have a steak or ahamburger that is actually made
(42:38):
out of that animal cell.
Like you could, you could makeit out of cow cells and it would
actually be beef.
It just wouldn't be beef thatcame from a cow.
It would be beef cells that weregrown in a lab.
Josh (42:49):
You don't want to go to a restaurant and you ask what is
this?
And the waiter goes it's beef.
Ian (42:54):
It's technically beef, but it didn't come from a cow or you
could make something that lookslike a steak or like a
hamburger, but you could printit out a vegetable protein.
Josh (43:04):
Oh, I like that better.
Ian (43:05):
I like the idea of that option better Josh.
But when you see these things,the technology has a long way to
go because these three D printedvegetable steaks don't look like
steak.
They're about a 16th of an inchthick.
They're like green.
(43:29):
It was actually a great videowhere, they print one of these
and then they cook it in a panand they give it to someone to
eat, and I'm sure that theywanted them to be like, Whoa, it
tastes just like beef and theperson takes a bite and like,
they don't even swallow it.
They just look at the camera andgo, mm.
So I think that that has somepotential, you know I think that
(43:51):
we definitely need to bereplacing meat proteins with
other sources of protein.
It's a really important part inthe future of our food industry.
but I personally don't findthose veggie steaks very
appealing at this point.
Josh (44:05):
Called bif it's not beef.
It's bif.
Ian (44:08):
Okay.
So now after a longconversation, we finally arrived
at the actual question that wasasked, which is what do we think
about three D printing organs?
And what do we think about threeD printing in medicine?
So three D printing has beenused to try and print organs and
tissues, but I think it'simportant to note that it
actually right now represents alot more flexibility and a lot
(44:33):
more potential in other medicalapplications.
For example, printingspecialized instruments that are
designed specifically to work onthe patient that they're used
for, or three D printingpersonally tailored implants, or
personally tailored prostheticlimbs that that's already being
done right now.
so three D printing has thepotential to take individualized
(44:57):
medicine or the idea ofindividualized medicine to kind
of the next level.
And one of the coolest examplesof that, that I found was,
surgeons who will use three Dscan data, likes data from a
three D MRI to reproducephysical models of a patient's
body parts before surgery.
Patrick (45:14):
wow.
I can almost practice.
Ian (45:16):
Yeah, exactly.
So that they can actually pickup and feel and even practice on
the patient's specific organs,before doing the surgery.
And that can include things likethe size and the placement and
the shape of tumors or injuriesor other unique features.
Patrick (45:33):
that's really cool.
Ian (45:35):
what that enables surgeons to do is perform surgeries a lot
more quickly with a lot morepreparation.
And so one of the things that'slinked to infection rates and
complications is time spent onthe operating table.
So if you can cut down time,spend on the operating table,
and if you can make theprocedure way more exact, and
(45:56):
well-informed, there's thelikelihood of, surgeries
resulting in a lot lessinfections and complications.
Patrick (46:03):
that's insanely awesome.
Ian (46:04):
And then of course, like drew asked so many minutes ago,
you can print with living cellsand this is kinda like printing
a steak out of living cells.
but you could actually printwith skin tissue, or even bone
cells or organ cells or bloodvessels, or maybe even multiple
(46:25):
of those things at the sametime.
Josh (46:27):
And I'm assuming that because you can actually pick
the cells that are being used tothree D print, you can make it
so that it would resolve thewhole issue of the body
rejecting the organ.
Ian (46:38):
Exactly.
Exactly.
That's that's one of the mostpromising things about it is
that you could print a person, areplacement body part, or a
replacement organ out of theirown cells.
And if there's some sort ofgenetic issue with their cells
that created the problem thatnecessitates a transplant in the
first place, you could fix thatproblem with something like
(46:59):
CRISPR or gene editing system.
callback there.
So you're exactly right.
This would, not only eitherdrastically reduce, or maybe
even eliminate the wholephenomenon of the Organ
waitlist, but it may alsoaddress the issue of
compatibility, because the,statistic is really sad but on
(47:20):
average, 18 people every day inthe United States die waiting
for a transplant.
And that could either just bebecause of availability or it
could be that they're waitingfor the right match.
And so if you could addressthat, I mean that literally save
thousands of lives a year.
Patrick (47:42):
That's incredible.
Especially even things likeexterior, like ears, I've seen
instances of Burn victims whohave lost a nose or an ear, so
they can have those things thatare three D printed and, attach
those almost seamlessly sincecartilage and three D printed
material are kind of similar toone another, I don't know the
(48:02):
right.
And I don't know the, theresearch behind how they're
doing with like the trueauthenticity of that skin, but I
mean, I'm sure it's prettycomparable.
Ian (48:12):
mean, I think that we are years, if not decades away from
actually printing, replacementbody parts for people out of,
real human tissue, there may besome things like you said, like,
An ear, a nose that is just kindof like skin and cartilage or
skin and bone that, that maybewe could get to sooner than
something like a heart or, youknow, an internal organ.
(48:35):
we're probably pretty far awayfrom that point.
But until that time three Dprinting does represent a way to
do medical testing a new andnovel way.
right now, if we want to, test apharmaceutical product, we have
to either test on animals or wehave to test it on humans.
(48:57):
And it usually goes in thatorder there's usually animal
testing and then human clinicaltrials.
But if you could three D printsomething that was mostly like a
human organ or mostly like ahuman skin tissue type, you
could test products on that,which might decrease our
reliance on animal testing,which can be problematic.
(49:19):
And it might, increase oursuccess in human clinical
trials.
Cause it gives a humanalternative before actually
testing it on living humanbeings.
but eventually we will be ableto, to print things like you're
talking about Patrick, like earsand, in the weirdest proof of
concept that I've ever seen,people have already done this.
So an artist worked withbioprinting and printed Van
(49:45):
Gogh's missing ear.
Cause very famously Vincent vanGogh cut off his own ear.
And so I don't know what kind ofstatement they were trying to
make, but they printed Vincentvan Gogh's missing year and they
didn't do it out of plastic.
They did it out of human cellsand they didn't just do it out
of any human cells.
They did it out of human cellsfrom his great grandson.
Josh (50:06):
Oh, no, no.
We've gone too far.
We need to go back.
Ian (50:11):
So very strange proof of concept, but you can actually
print something like an ear.
Josh (50:17):
I'm putting this on the record right now.
If my great, great grandchildrendo anything like that, you're
cut out of the will.
Ian (50:25):
don't want them to reprint you.
Josh (50:26):
No, no, I do not want my body reprinted in any shape or
form.
Like what did great, great grandPappy look like?
Ian (50:35):
Actually that is a really good transition into maybe
talking about what do you thinkare some of the possible
drawbacks to the concept ofthree D printing human body
parts?
And I didn't even think aboutthat one, Josh, but the concept
of printing someone else's bodypart without their consent.
Josh (50:55):
Yeah, no about No.
Yeah.
See, this is my favorite part.
About every time we, as thehuman race, discover something,
we immediately have to havethese ethical conversations.
And it's so crazy because it'slike, there is no right answer.
I mean, we just talked about allof the amazing things that
(51:16):
printing body parts does for usas a society.
But there's always going to besomething creepy, masochistic,
dissolve the evidence kind ofminded person who's gonna come
in and everybody's going to say,why would you do that?
Ian (51:32):
well, I was thinking like, as soon as that technology
becomes not just about.
printing organs for people whoneed transplants or, printing
skin grafts for people who had amajor injury or something like
that.
As soon as it becomes asituation where you could
upgrade your organs, that's wand it's cool, but it's where we
(51:52):
kind of get into that, thatthing that you were just talking
about, how people are going touse it for nefarious purposes.
Like, if you could replace yourheart and lungs with, lab grown,
heart and lungs that increaseyour athletic capabilities or
something
Josh (52:06):
Yeah.
Or you three D print Paul Rudd'sface and Rob a bank.
Ian (52:12):
With your dissolvable weapons,
Josh (52:14):
Yes.
Ian (52:19):
okay.
Well, we need to, I think wrapup soon, Patrick needs to go
pick up his children fromdaycare.
so real fast before we wrap up,The future.
Where do you think three Dprinting can go in the future?
Patrick (52:33):
outer space.
Josh (52:34):
Patrick took it to where we could physically go.
Ian (52:40):
I mean, honestly, that's, that's one of the things that I
put down too.
It's like three D printing inspace.
I think it's going to happen.
In fact, it has already happenedthere is, I think a three D
printer, on a space station andthey've technically three D
printed something in space, allright, well, Patrick is out
everybody, but Josh and I aregoing to wrap up the rest of the
show.
one thing that I was thinkingthat's going to happen in the
(53:01):
future.
This process that they arecalling in situ printing, which
in this case In situ would meanprinting directly at the site of
injury.
So in a medical application, ifsomeone came in with a broken
bone, if you could print cellsto fuse that bone back together,
(53:24):
That'd be pretty amazing.
Or if someone came in with a,horrible burn or a horrible,
laceration or something likethat, you could print skin cells
directly onto the site of theinjury.
Josh (53:36):
I, I like that.
I think I prefer that.
Ian (53:40):
Then like printing something in a lab
Josh (53:41):
Yeah.
And then putting it into me, I'mjust curious how you would be
able to actually go about thatmechanism.
Cause you'd still have to openthe person up, but yeah, it
would be just be directlyattached.
I'm processing it.
That's amazing.
Ian (53:55):
it's an idea.
That's out there.
I don't think that it's beendone even experimentally.
I didn't come across anyevidence of that.
I hope I'm not wrong about that,but, it's an idea that's out
there.
So maybe, you know, in a hundredyears, that's where we're at
medically, who knows.
Is there anything else you wantto say, Josh?
Josh (54:14):
Oh, no, I'm good.
I loved this.
Ian (54:16):
Okay, cool..
All right.
So I think that's going to wrapit up for this episode of
Yondercast.
Thank you all so much forlistening.
Please subscribe to the show andreview us on Apple podcasts if
you have a moment.
If you have a question that youwould like us to answer on the
show, just fill out the surveythat you'll find linked in our
show notes.
And if you would like to contactus, just shoot us an email at
(54:37):
yondercast@gmail.com.
Thanks everybody.
Until next time, goodbye.
Josh (54:42):
bye.
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