May 29, 2025 • 37 mins
Vernon Thomas is a military attorney, community servant, and judicial candidate for the 19th Judicial District Court in Baton Rouge. In this heartfelt conversation, Vernon and Kyla reflect on his legal journey—from public defender and prosecutor to staff attorney and JAG officer—and how each role shaped his approach to justice. With lessons from his father, mentorship from respected judges, and deep Southern roots, Vernon is driven by more than ambition—he’s driven by service.
LAWYER SIDE HUSTLES
Vernon’s not one to chase flashy side hustles—his hustle is service. In addition to his military service and legal practice, he helps run the Cutting Edge Music Business Conference, a long-running event originally founded by his father and godfather. The conference helps attorneys gain education in television, film, and music law, especially as digital media transforms the industry. Vernon contributes by advising on ethical issues and supporting work-for-hire contracts for local creatives.
“It was originally designed to kind of be similar to South by Southwest, where lawyers can come and get education in the television, film, and music industry,” expresses Vernon Thomas in Episode 194 of You Are a Lawyer.Through this work, Vernon supports artists and advocates for fair contracts and informed decision-making. It’s a creative outlet that intersects naturally with his legal career—and a meaningful way to stay rooted in his family legacy while helping others grow.
LISTEN TO LEARN
- What it looks like to build a legal career rooted in public service
- How Vernon balances military service, family life, and legal work
- What it really takes to run for judge—and why it matters
WE ALSO DISCUSS
- The weight and responsibility of being on the bench
- How clerks, court staff, and mentors shape the judicial process
- The importance of intentionality and legacy in legal careers
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Interact with You Are A Lawyer
Kyla Denanyoh hosts the You Are A Lawyer podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
To be basically the arbiter of people's either a,
(00:02):
money or b, their freedom,right, depending upon what your
docket is that day, it's anawesome responsibility.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hey, friends. This is Kyla DeNagno, and every season,
I speak to a graduate of theSouthern University Law Center
in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Thatis where I graduated from law
school, and it is very near anddear to my heart. So let's get
right into this episodefeaturing an SULC graduate.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Welcome to the UR Lawyer podcast, Vernon Wesley
Thomas. You and I have reportedbefore. You were on season
three, I wanna say, and this isseason 13 of the You Are Lawyer
podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I gotta I gotta just say this because last time I
didn't get video. And so I'veseen all the other interviews
that have come after that andeverybody has video. They got
something on YouTube.Everybody's, Oh, Hey. And
everybody gets to see everybodyin the camera.
And then I just got the audioand I'm like, Oh, wow. Like, why
(01:01):
did I get sliding?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Look, life was life. And when I started this show, I
was pregnant. It took all myenergy to just get on the
recording. I was not turning onmy camera. Today I had a little
time.
Okay? So that's why now I'mdoing video.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So you're blaming your daughter for sliding me the
video from
Speaker 3 (01:20):
True. Technology's always changing. When I first
started, it was enough to justhave the audio and now you need
the audio and the video.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So But the weird thing about that is is that as
we see from from season toseason, I've just seen such a a
maturation in your interviewingstyle. Everything is just it's
gone up five notches. And I'm soproud of you.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. My goal is to
get 1% better every season,every episode, every day. And
I'm doing it.
I'm doing it.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Making progress. I got you.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Yes. All right. So as you mentioned, you are my
mentor. You were my mentor inlaw school. You've been my
career mentor.
And the last time we talked, youwere happily a lawyer doing all
the things. But now you'retrying to qualify to become a
judge.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
So there is an upcoming special election in
Baton Rouge for a seat that wasvacated by a judge who just went
up to the first circuit. And soI'm running for that vacancy in
the nineteenth JDC. It is goingto be a very, very interesting
race. There are, from what I'mtold, four other candidates,
including me, that arepotentially going to run. And
(02:26):
this is my first foray intopolitics, so I really don't know
what to expect.
I'm just kind of bringing myauthentic self to the table and
my experiences and hoping thatthe people understand that I
want to be the person that theyelect to make sure that they
have somebody there that theycan truly relate to. And
(02:47):
hopefully, and hopefully that'sit.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah. So, okay. The nineteenth JDC, I've been there
before. I went to law school inBaton Rouge, Louisiana. You're
from New Orleans though.
Why are you running for judge inBaton Rouge?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So I have a deep connection to Baton Rouge and I
told you about this. So mymother is from Baton Rouge, all
my aunts and uncles. Mygrandfather Horace Wesley Moody
Sr. Over intramural sports atseven, he coached football,
coached the offensive line. Heactually coached my uncle Horace
Wesley Moody Jr.
Who recently passed. Condolencesto the family. And now the
(03:21):
intramural complex that sits inthe middle of Southern's campus
is named after him. He was alsoone of the founding members of
NRSA, which is the, and so foras long as I can remember, I was
going to Southern footballgames, home and away every
Sunday in Baton Rouge at mygrandparents' house at 186270
Eighth Avenue in SouthernHeights. I've lived there for
(03:44):
quite some time and it fits.
And also a lot of people don'trealize I spent the majority of
my adult life in Baton Rouge. Imoved to Baton Rouge originally
when I was 22, after I finishedfrom Dillard University And then
went ahead after Katrina, movedaround a little bit, came back
and went to law school atSouthern University Law Center,
(04:05):
which is the best law center onthe face of the earth, has
produced incredible lawyers,which include, but not are
limited, which includes, but isnot limited to my father, who
graduated first in his class in1979, my brother, who you know,
Hunter Thomas, who graduated in2017, my mentors, Teddy Nyshed
(04:25):
and Dietrich Moore, a host ofother people who are on the
campaign committee and justpeople in general in the
community who have really,really touted that as their alma
mater, regardless of wherethey've gone to undergrad. So
deep connection to that.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Okay. All right. Very cool. Yeah. I just celebrated
ten years since graduating fromSouthern University and I cannot
believe it's been ten years.
And it also feels like it was atleast thirty years. Like it
feels like it was so long ago. Idon't know why. I feel like once
you become a lawyer, everythingis just different. Did you ever
have that experience once youwere in Baton Rouge and you're
(05:02):
like, okay, what's this like?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I think the biggest thing was when I opened up my
office in Baton Rouge. And so Iremember coming back from
officer basic course and that'swhen Tedrick had opened up his
office where mine is now, 2415Government Street, shameless
self plug for that office. Andhe told me, Hey, look, you know,
(05:26):
I'm opening up this office. Youneed to hurry up and get in
here. I'm giving you the rightof first refusal.
And he gave me a reallysweetheart deal on rent. Another
classmate of mine was alreadyrenting from It was prime real
estate, prime location. And Iremember calling my best friend
Eddie, and I remember saying,Hey, yo, is it time? He was
like, Hey man, this is theincremental progress that we're
talking about that you have togo ahead and step into it and
(05:48):
take that leap of faith. Goahead and do it.
And you'll feel way betterhaving taken that step. That was
2013. And so from there, aplethora of things have
happened. You know, my fatherpassed multiple active duty
stints, multiple mobilizations.So, yeah, it feels like an
eternity since the last time wetalked in 2021.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I know. I know. So you've mentioned active duty,
which was a big deal in our lastrecording. The whole thing was
about how to be this JAG officerand this big time military
attorney and what that was like.So military experience from New
Orleans, went to school in BatonRouge, have an office in Baton
Rouge running for judge.
(06:31):
How does all of this experiencetie into being a judge? Like,
how does it fit?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
The experience that I've gotten from both the
criminal and the civil side havebeen invaluable. And I think I
can bring a very balancedperspective to the bench. And
that's what I think people want.I think people want to see
somebody who's practiced in theareas. Going back from the
beginning, I've seen a lot ofdifferent experiences from a lot
(06:56):
of different levels in bothcriminal and civil.
When I came out, I was kind ofmeandering about trying to find
my voice and find my space. Iworked for Tender Nightshed for
about a year and a half, twoyears. Also did some contract
work for Dietrich Moore. I thengot on with East Baton Rouge
Parish Public Defender's Officein 2012. At the same time, I
(07:20):
joined United States Army JAGCorps, went away to OBC in 2013
from February to June, cameback, went back to the Public
Defender's Office, did a yearmobilization at Fort Campbell in
the Tennessee Kentucky border indivision administrative law for
a year, came back to the publicdefender's office, then went on
(07:42):
another one year active dutymobilization to Fort Bragg, the
first Special Forces Command,where I was a brigade
prosecutor, I prosecuted sexcrimes and did a host of other
things, including intel law,operational law, ad law.
Came back, during that time.Unfortunately, my father passed
(08:03):
in November, November '20 '16.And so when I got off that
active duty mobilization of FortBragg, I came back and I took
over his office in New Orleans.And in the midst of doing that,
because he had a very robustcivil practice, I had to figure
out the whole civil practicebecause he had two major mass
(08:25):
torts with about 2,504 clientsapiece. He had a catalog and
book of business of about 30personal injury cases.
And I had done some PI stuff. Hehad Will's successions that I
had to complete, which wereinteresting in and of itself
because I hadn't done those inquite a while. At that point
(08:46):
too, also I became a law clerkfor the Honorable Tracey
Fleming's Davalier, who's nowthe Chief Judge of Criminal
District Court in New Orleans.Worked there for about fifteen
months, left there, became amunicipal prosecutor. In the
midst of doing that, 'twenty onethrough 'twenty four, for about
a quarter, three, sometimesfour, four and a half months,
(09:09):
depending upon the year, I wouldleave and go to Fort Knox and be
the command judge advocate forcadet summer training, which is
under the United States ArmyCadet Command.
And so that is the largest, aswe call it, CONUS training event
for the entire army. So 10,000,12 thousand cadets on the ground
at any given time, lots ofdifferent issues. I was legal
(09:32):
advisor for two zero six, whichis full bird colonels, and two
one star Brigadier Generals,'twenty one, 'twenty two,
'twenty three, 'twenty four.It's a lot. And the midst of
that, I wound up moving back toBaton Rouge to become a staff
(09:53):
attorney for the Honorable JudgeColette M.
Please say to M. Greggs. And Ibecame her staff attorney in
2023. And in the midst of that,I was still allowed to keep my
private practice. Some obviouslywasn't in that jurisdiction.
And I worked and worked and Ithink people want to see someone
(10:15):
on the bench that they know canidentify with them because
they've lived either in the areaor had some similar experiences.
And then from a civilstandpoint, know some of the
lawyers are tired of having toexplain certain things over and
over and over again. So theywant judges who truly, truly
understand kind of what some ofthe legal principles are without
(10:36):
having to always spelleverything completely out. And
granted the judges of the 19 JDCare phenomenal. And I've had an
opportunity to learn bothscholastically and
administratively under twounbelievable Black female judges
in New Orleans and in BatonRouge.
It's been invaluable.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah. So would you say that your legal experience
has prepared you to become ajudge or working closely with
other judges, like getting thatbehind the scenes look?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I think both. To understand what it is to wear
the robe and to be basically thearbiter of people's either A,
money or B, their freedom,Right. Depending upon what your
docket is that day. It's anawesome responsibility. And I
think having seen it from both ascholastic and administrative
standpoint in two differentjurisdictions because New
(11:26):
Orleans and Baton Rouge, SixtyThree miles makes a complete
difference in just the day today rigors of kind of what
you're doing in one place versusanother place.
Whereas in one place here in NewOrleans, I was doing a lot more
of the Scholastic things,research and the writing. In
Baton Rouge, I was also doingresearch and writing, but I was
also involved in the day to dayadministration of kind of how
(11:49):
the office moved, speaking withthe attorneys, speaking with
people at the jails, interactingmore with the clerk's office.
And so it comes together in thisbeautiful plume of
understanding, not just from theadvocacy standpoint, having been
a prosecutor and public andprivate criminal defense, but
also what goes on behind thescenes. And there's a lot that
(12:10):
goes into every decision that isrendered, every sentence that is
handed down, every judgment thatis levied. And it makes a huge
difference when you've been ableto see that multiple times,
multiple jurisdictions frommultiple angles.
And I've seen a bunch of obtuseareas of both criminal and a
little bit of civil law as well,but definitely a lot of criminal
(12:33):
from behind the thing.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Yeah. So I'm listening to you and I know that
this is something that you want.And I don't know a better way to
say it. It just sounds like it'sso much work to be a judge. I
mean, I feel like you've alreadydone a lot of hard work.
Is this just the next logicalstep for you?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
I don't know if anybody jumps into politics as
the next logical step. I'll saythis. I really don't know what
I'm getting into per se becauseI've never done this. What I can
say is that I've had theopportunity to study under two
wonderful judges. And I've seenthe tireless effort and energy
(13:13):
that goes into what they do withevery decision that they make
from how they're going to set upthe docket for six weeks out to
what they want me to say in aparticular peculiar that I may
be drafting to even what they'regoing to wear to an event, which
conveys a particular move ondown to Judge Gregg's
investiture, what the menu isgoing to be.
(13:34):
So there are a lot of justancillary little decisions that
go into just running the office,not the least of which is how
you're going to sentencesomebody. And in a lot of the
certain judge's cases, howyou're going to find and how
you're going to rule on theseparticular issues. And to say
that it's less work would bedoing it a real disservice.
(13:55):
Mean, I've done a lot ofdifferent work, but I mean, lot
of it has been for, for lack ofa better term, the betterment of
my career. You know, I was ableto go here and be a command
judge advocate.
Prosecutor. I was able to be apublic defender, which was an
awesome job, by the way. I wasable to be a municipal
prosecutor. I was able to be astaff attorney for two different
judges. And so now you'redealing with not just your own
(14:18):
career and not just your ownadvancement, but you're trying
to do something that is drivenby a desire to make sure that
the people are put in the bestposition possible, whether that
be with their money or withtheir freedom.
The weight sometimes that I'veseen both the judges that clerk
for, the weight that they wereunder was very, very intense. Is
(14:39):
it more difficult? Yes, becausenow you're making decisions that
affect ancillary and tertiaryindividuals on down the line.
One decision about a moneyjudgment and you could bankrupt
the company. Another decisionabout a sentence you could
remove someone from their familyfor a significant amount of
time, and nobody grapples withthat easily.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Earlier, you said you're getting into politics.
Well, I feel like I've watchedenough TV to see people get into
politics. Okay. But there ismore to it. Right?
And so I appreciate that. Imean, it's
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I'm told. That's all I'm told. I'm told there's more
to
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I mean, we only can see from the outside, right?
I've been to the nineteenth JDC.I went to law school in Baton
Rouge, beautiful building. Inever really thought too much
about what happened behind thescenes. I've been to a judge's
celebration when they get in.
I've never really thought aboutwho helped them pick the outfit
or how that conveyed the mood. Ididn't realize that all those
(15:34):
pieces would make sense, but Ifeel like with your career and
your training, you've alreadybeen preparing for this. You
already know how to think acouple steps ahead. You already
know how to make sure everydetail is right. You're not
going to be rude and abusing allof your clerks.
I think it's good.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I know what it is to serve and I know what it is to
represent someone else. And so Iwas keenly aware of the image
that I was putting out and thework product that was coming out
of the office in both of myclerkships. And I truly admire
the people that I worked under,right. From the judges
themselves to the staff and therelationship that you have with
(16:13):
the clerk's office. Ladies andgentlemen that work in the
19JDC's clerk of court's office,they're amazing because they're
the real rock stars.
I couldn't get my job donewithout their help. And so they
were instrumental, you know,having a relationship with them
was very instrumental becauseI'm filing stuff all the time.
You know, my judge wanted stufffiled. She wanted stuff
(16:35):
answered. She wanted stuff aparticular type of way.
I'm like, Hey, however you wantto do it. And so oftentimes I'm
going down to file things threeand four and five times a day.
So when you come to rely onthose people to help you get
your job done, you understand,especially from now being behind
the scenes, because, you know,an attorney, you come in and
file stuff, but you don't seethe love behind the melody, so
(16:59):
to speak, when it comes to,okay, this person's cataloging
this, this person's scanningthat, this person is doing this,
this person's making sure therunner has what they need to get
to you if they need a hard copyfile. This is filed under seal.
The minute clerks, you know,they have to adjust the minutes.
And so you see how it workstogether in a big, plume with
essentially three or fourorganizations working under one
(17:21):
roof in order to make sure thatthe dockets are run, that the
jail and the transport ofinmates is complete, that
evidence is law correctly, andthat basically the record is
kept in complete order to makesure that when you get on the
bench as a judge or you have astaff attorney that's looking
something up, they can go rightto where they believe it's going
(17:43):
to be once they know how to usethe system and find it. And it
gave me such an appreciation foreverybody that works in the
courthouse.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
That's a really good point, right? Like it takes a
team. And then I think it'simportant to see that you've
always been serving and now thiswould be an additional level to
the service, but also you'reacknowledging that it's not just
you. You might be the the judgein that courtroom, but also you
still have a whole team ofpeople behind you. So this
podcast is all about humanizinglawyers.
(18:14):
So let's talk about the funstuff. Uh-oh. So Don't throw
Speaker 1 (18:19):
no softball questions. To hear the real
questions.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
What is this like for the military? Are you still
going to be in the service? Imean, I know they can
technically always call you ifthey need you.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
What's So I came in as a reservist. And so the
active duty stints I was doingwere mobilized reserve tools.
And so, yes, I will continuewith my service. I probably
won't be able to go onto activeduty mobilizations with the same
frequency based on the fact thatif I get elected, I'll have a
(18:52):
doctor to run, but I'll still bethere. I'll still be going to
drill.
I'll still be doing the annualtrainings. I'll still have to
keep up with the educationalqualifications, which I got a
long, long year of that too ifI'm going to make the next rank.
So I'll still be in.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Okay. And then you have a life, you have a family.
How do you do all of this?Coffee? Do you sleep?
How do you balance it all? Doyou believe that there is
balance to it or is it all justkind of integrated?
Speaker 1 (19:23):
So I do believe that flowing through all life is
balance, but there are going betimes when you're going to be
unbalanced. For example, my sonjust made 17. My daughter just
made 14. You have to make thetime. I tend to go to bed early.
I tend to get up early. I get atleast an hour and a half on my
(19:44):
heavy days in the gym. I'm inthe gym or working out five days
out of the week. I come, I havea very routine and regimented
schedule. Some people say I'mtoo regimented in certain
things.
I like to think that disciplinekind of helps me move along
about my day. And you have tomake sure that you make the time
because those times areprecious. I'm now looking at two
teenagers, you know, at thepoint in time at which we had
(20:07):
the prior podcast, they wereyounger. The conversation was
different and fatherhood wasimportant to both my father and
my grandfather. And you see itas you view the legacy of those
men as successive generationscome behind.
And I'm, yeah, balance is cool,but sometimes I got to be
(20:28):
unbalanced. Sometimes I'm notgoing to bed till late. I gotta
get up early, but that's theprice you pay if you wanna try
to have everything done at thesame time in the same day while
still making sure everybody getswhat they need.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I feel like I'm enjoying the fact that people
are being more honest aboutthese things. I like the fact
that you're sharing thesethings. Like sometimes there's
balance. It's very important,but also at times life isn't
balanced and that's just life.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
You're going to be unbalanced. The question is, is
the effort matching what it ispeople want from you? And is it
matching what you want fromyourself? And again, what people
want from you, it may vary fromperson to person. I'm going be
honest with you.
I've got certain nonnegotiables. For one, if there's
a major event and I'm in town orI can get there, I'm going to
(21:16):
get there. Right? If I promiseyou that I will be somewhere,
unless it's an absoluteemergency, I plan on being Now,
can I be at every event, be incourt in this parish, be here
doing that? No.
And so my son figured out very,very early what I really, really
want you at dad and kind ofwhat, Hey, look, if you can make
(21:38):
it, I appreciate it. My daughtersame way. She's like, daddy, I
really want you at this. So sheshe's going to NOCA in the fall.
And I came down for cool kidscollective, something that she
does with video, videoproduction because she's going
to NOCA for media arts.
And so she had a hand in thebackstage production of a couple
(22:01):
of short films. She was like,Dad, I want you to come to this.
And so I came. But what I wantfor myself is to be able to at
least say I made the nonnegotiables, right? And I was
always present as much as Ipossibly could be with time
permitting.
Even rearranging some stuff tomake sure that I was there for.
Same way I do for clients when Igo to the jail on the weekends
(22:25):
after my daughter's eighth gradegraduation.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I I feel like as lawyers, we're taught to move
that way. It's part of problemsolving. If I got to do these
eight things, I got to find thetime for these eight things.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Learned very, very early that a lot of what I've
been able to make my bones on isdoing the work. Like I'll go to
the house, your house at 10:00at night, you know, and talk
with you about the situation.I'll go to the jail. Know, East
Baton Rouge Parish prisonersright around the corner. So I
would go there on a Saturday,you know, and just say something
(23:02):
and come back home.
And so just that constant effortyou get used to that as your
heartbeat. And, you know,sometimes it comes off a little
intense and I get, I come off alittle intense at times when it
comes to it, but I'm so used tothe heartbeat being okay, now
this, now that, now this, nowthat. When I'm hearing your
problem, the analysisimmediately goes to, okay, if
(23:24):
it's a civil situation, have wedone this, this, this, this,
this? If it's a criminalsituation, do we know this,
this, this, this, this? What doI have access to?
What is the case law that I needto think about? And then in the
midst of all that, Hey man, thisis about 05:00. My son got a
game at seven. You know, mydaughter has something she has
at eight. How do I balance allof that?
(23:46):
And sometimes I'm thinking aboutone thing while at another
thing. Like, Hey, oh, greatbaby. Okay. What time can I get
to the jail tomorrow? It's like,Ugh.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yeah. I mean, that's life. That's definitely life.
Being a lawyer, having our legaleducation is really good
training for life and for doingeverything in life. It's just,
you got to plan it.
You got to be intentional withit. Earlier in the call,
mentioned being in alignment.Would you say that your life is
in alignment right now?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I think mentally, physically, and spiritually, I'm
coming into that alignment. As Igo through this campaign
process, I think what I'm tryingto do is give everybody my
authentic self. And again, Ican't tell you everything that I
always want to say right off thecuff because that's just not how
life is. And sometimes I willhave to be a lot more measured.
(24:37):
But I do think that my career,my life experiences, the people
that I've worked for, the peoplewho have vouched for me, the
people who took time to give mecorrection and direction and
mentorship have all kind ofpoured into me and said, Hey,
look, it might be the time foryou to go ahead and do this.
And I've always wanted to do it.My father ran for judge, when he
(25:01):
was in when he was about my agemany, many years ago.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, I don't tell people a lot. I was thinking
about wearing a shirt from hiscampaign, kind of doing the same
culture but I could not find theshirt. And so what I would
probably do is tear my mother'shouse looking for it and frame
it and hang it up because BatonRouge has given me so much. It's
(25:27):
given me really a trueunderstanding of who I am as an
adult. It's given me a hugeconnection to Southern
University where my grandmotherwas actually the principal at
Southern Lab at one point too.
So just the deep connection thatI have to just that university
into that city is it'simmeasurable. I remember jogging
(25:48):
at night and I don't advisepeople doing that, but jogging
at night through banks, youknow, running by the plant on my
five mile runs, you know, myiPod, just thinking about
different things.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
IPod? How old are you?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. We're not gonna crack age
jokes.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Do you want your kids to go to Southern?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Sure. My son wants to go to Southern. My daughter, I
think she'll probably, if shehas her way, will probably go to
film school. I want one of themselfishly. I want one of them to
go to Southern University LawCenter.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Oh, there's not a lot of lawyers that want their
children to be lawyers. Sothat's surprising to me.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Well, my dad wanted me to be a lawyer and he wanted
my brother and I to be lawyers.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
So y'all
Speaker 1 (26:34):
completely That's not exactly true. But my son said he
wants to be a pediatrician or anactor. So he's got the acting
bug. He's talented in theater.My daughter will likely go to
film school.
So if they touch SouthernUniversity's campus undergrad or
in some sort of grad program insome way, shape, form, or
fashion, I think the legacy willbe continued.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
So you are a regimented lawyer who raised
creative children. That's kindof interesting.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I'm creative. I was talented in theater. Did some
childhood acting. Trying to makeme sound like I'm a stiff.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
No, I mean, from the first interview, we actually
talked about the musicconference that you have. Don't
you guys still have that, theentertainment law?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
So the Cutting Edge Music Business Conference was
originally started by my fatherand my paran, Eric Hager. Now
we're going 30. And it wasoriginally designed to kind of
be similar to South by Southwestwhere lawyers can come and get
education in the television,film and music industry. And a
(27:40):
lot of it kind of changed asdigital media changed, you know,
streaming, downloading, how toquantify certain things, how to
make a living. Typically, what Ido from the entertainment law
standpoint is I deal with theethical issues and I also deal
with a lot of work for hireactors because Louisiana at one
(28:01):
point was really bringing in awhole lot of movie productions.
And so I would get a whole lotof people who have the talented
and acting bug. They would kindof want to know what the work
for hire contracts were and ifthey got featured extras and
just a lot of document reviewand kind of telling people what
their left and right limits are.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah. So, okay. I'm just thinking about it. There is
creativity within your life,right? Feel like all lawyers No,
I think that all lawyers arecreative.
I think that the way that we putcase law together, way that you
can see a set of facts and youcan see something completely
different from someone else. Ithink all of that is creativity,
(28:44):
even if it's not, you know,picking up a paintbrush and
painting something. So I'm justthinking about it. You know, my
kiddo likes to come downstairsand like play with the
microphones and things. And Iwonder if she's going go the
complete opposite because shesees me here doing media
production.
And so she might be like, Idon't want all that fluffy
stuff. I want to do somethingstrict. Right? So I'm just
(29:06):
curious.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Well, I will say this. In the beginning of my
career, it was brutal. And I'mgoing to send a shout out to
Greg Barthard, who was actuallymy first client who I got from
working as a night auditor atthe Crown Plaza Hotel. So shout
out to Greg for actually beingmy first client and giving me an
opportunity to represent. Sothank you, Greg, wherever you
are, thank you.
But it's difficult for a lot ofyoung lawyers because you don't
(29:30):
know what you don't know. Andone thing Tedrick and Dietrich
always taught me and one thingthat my father showed me was
that one, you're not a lawyeruntil you have a client, right?
Two, you kind of need to get upunder somebody to show you how
to do things, right? So thatyou're not making the kind of
mistakes that wind up gettingpeople disbarred. And again,
(29:52):
you're going to, it's not aboutmaking the mistake.
It's about making the hugemistakes that either cost
somebody their life or costsomebody a goo gob of money that
winds up putting you on the backburner and winds up having
people or doing somethingunethical like taking money and
not doing the job, which is, andI've heard of stories of people
(30:12):
doing that. And that's a huge nono for me, huge no no. So you
need somebody to kind of teachyou those things. And I've been
blessed to have a father whoI've seen have a very, very
ethical and community basedpractice. And I've had two
mentors that have really pouredinto me, Tedrick and Dietrich
have poured into me probablymore than any other lawyers out
(30:33):
there.
My time, I cut my teeth at BatonRouge and I love every minute of
it.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yeah. So my last question here, I'm going to
switch it up a little bit. Willyou still get to practice law
once you become judge? No. Orare you practicing in a
different way because you're onthe bench?
Like, is it, what are thedetails? So
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I think people forget that judges are still lawyers.
So judges are still lawyers. Soyou are still subject to the
rules of the bar association andthe judiciary, but you are not
actively representing a clientreal or juridicals interests. So
now you are an arbiter of theissue that comes in front of
(31:17):
you, whether that be criminal orcivil. And so by that virtue,
you're supposed to be, as afriend of mine once said, an
umpire calling balls andstrikes, as opposed to somebody
who's actually in the gamepitching war back.
So now you're the ump. And soyou have to know what you're
doing. It's a lot of reading.Lot of the, both the judges that
(31:38):
I worked for, they werevoracious readers. Every judge
that I've known personally hasbeen a voracious reader of the
law and just of just otheraspects of politics and life in
general.
And you bring your perspectiveto the bench, whatever that
perspective is. Hopefully, it'sa balance point. You know,
sometimes it may be differentthan somebody else's, but that's
(32:01):
what makes it beautiful.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yeah. I think that's a good place for us to end
because you just explained howyou have all of this experience.
You get to bring all of that tothe bench. That's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
So, Yaan, you cut me off. That's the end of the
interview?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Only because my next guest is here. I don't know why
y'all popping up early. Ithought it was at 12:30. I
haven't even eaten today. Todayhas been bananas.
Okay. So today's episode, golisten to that one. I
interviewed Samora, but also Iinterviewed two his board
members for like this dentalfund that they run. Wi Fi issues
and Haiti was, you know what Imean? And it was like, I've
(32:35):
never interviewed three peopleat one time.
I was like, damn, I'm like aprofessional.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
You've been a professional for quite some
time. Look, you're not fornothing. The belief that I have
in you and your ability, Kyla,is just, it's over and it gushes
when I talk to you.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Is this gushing?
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I'm gushing. I don't know about you. I'm gushing
because I know from the firsttime that I met you in the
library during pre law, when youwere trying to read God knows
how long
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Look, I was scared, man. I was scared.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I mean, look, it puts the fear in you, but like pre
law doesn't it didn't count tillnow. Yeah. Right? When you have
a successful podcast that willhopefully rival Joe Rogan and
the rest of the guys very, verysoon.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I mean, that's It's been a
Speaker 1 (33:24):
wonderful journey. But I've been able to see the
whole journey and it's aweinspiring. Because I mean, you
could have quit a couple oftimes.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I could have quit a lot of times. I don't really
have that thought. I neverreally think about stopping
because somebody wants to hearthe story. Somebody wants to run
for judge. Somebody wants to bein the military and be a lawyer.
Somebody wants to live 63 milesbetween where they work and they
wanna know how to do it. Right?Like, I created this podcast
because no one was talking aboutthis stuff and I still don't
(33:53):
think people are talking aboutit. So I'll keep doing it. I'll
keep doing it.
You Are a Lawyer is the onlytask or project I have that I
don't even have on my calendarbecause I know every Thursday
there's an episode. I know Ihave to record. Like a lot of
other things, it's like, oh,nail appointment, pick up the
baby.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
It's Buy some groceries. So it's it's
completely ingrained ineverything and every fiber of
your
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Completely ingrained. It's completely ingrained. So,
it's fun. It's fun. It's amazingthat it's been going for five
years because, like, it'spicking up.
I can't even tell you when weget off of this recording, I
probably have three people whojust signed up to be a guest. It
is unbelievable how it likerose. I am constantly recorded
five months in advance.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I'm not gonna lie to you. Everything begins with
belief.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Everything begins with belief. Like we both had
belief in what we were doing.And look, I believed in you. I
saw it in you when we first hadthat first conversation. I was
like, Oh no, this is really andtruly I'm paying it forward to
you the same way people paid itforward to me.
And I think that gets lost onpeople oftentimes when they
think it's supposed to be just,Okay, I take off and, you know,
(34:58):
thank you for everything, buteverybody else, you don't touch
other lives. And I think thatdoes a disservice to everybody
else in a particular professionand around you.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
No, it's true. I mean, because a lot of people
ask me what I get out of thepodcast and I'm like, besides
talking to different people,I've only met maybe seven of the
lawyers in real I met you. But Imean, like, even I talk to a
Southern University graduateevery year, I pitch to these
people on LinkedIn. These aren'talways people that I've met.
(35:28):
Right?
Like all of this stuff is new.And so it's amazing. I think to
be able to create something outof your bare hands is like
amazing. And so you've done thatwith your career. I'm doing that
with the podcast.
We're both doing it with ourlives. Like you're creating
every day.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I will say this, I will push back on that. I didn't
do it with my bare handsnecessarily. Some people gave me
direction and materials and aplan and said, all right, this
is a blueprint. You can do ithowever you want to. However,
right, this worked for me, thismay not work for you, but if you
do at least these five things,read, pay attention, observe,
(36:08):
keep your mouth shut when peoplewho are talking to you know more
than you, and then acceptconstructive criticism when
things happen and somebody'staking the time to kind of pull
you aside as many people havedone for me, pull me aside and
say, Hey, look, this was good.
Work on this, read this, dothat, and maybe you may shift.
(36:29):
Or, Hey, join the JAG Corps.Like it may be a great
opportunity for you to learn thepractice of law from another
perspective. I feel like thespirit of my grandfather, Horace
Moody, my grandmother, myfather, my mother, the whole
Moody clan at Southern, and thena product of a lot of fine
education and tutelage fromSouthern graduates and Southern
(36:51):
professors. Because it really isthe greatest lost world on the
planet.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
It is, it is. I mean, we knew you were going to be
successful. Your dad is fromOhio. I'm from Ohio. Was
preordained.
Thank you so much for everybodywho's listening who is in East
Baton Rouge Parish, who knowssomeone in East Baton Rouge
Parish, please share the podcastepisode and let them know there
(37:15):
is a judicial race coming up.Everybody get And if you're in
New Orleans and you knowsomebody, you know, share it.
Tell tell a friend that tells afriend. Right? I'm in Ohio.
We're talking about it.Everybody is connected in one
way or another. So thank you somuch for sharing your story.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Thank you so much for giving me video time too instead
of just audio.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Alright. Alright. You. Bye. Bye.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Thank you for listening to You Are A Lawyer.
If you enjoyed this episode,share it with a friend and leave
a rating of this podcast. Newepisodes are released every
week. So keep taking risk inyour legal and I will talk to
you on the next episode. Bye.
To be basically the arbiter of people's either a,
(00:02):
money or b, their freedom,right, depending upon what your
docket is that day, it's anawesome responsibility.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hey, friends. This is Kyla DeNagno, and every season,
I speak to a graduate of theSouthern University Law Center
in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Thatis where I graduated from law
school, and it is very near anddear to my heart. So let's get
right into this episodefeaturing an SULC graduate.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Welcome to the UR Lawyer podcast, Vernon Wesley
Thomas. You and I have reportedbefore. You were on season
three, I wanna say, and this isseason 13 of the You Are Lawyer
podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I gotta I gotta just say this because last time I
didn't get video. And so I'veseen all the other interviews
that have come after that andeverybody has video. They got
something on YouTube.Everybody's, Oh, Hey. And
everybody gets to see everybodyin the camera.
And then I just got the audioand I'm like, Oh, wow. Like, why
(01:01):
did I get sliding?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Look, life was life. And when I started this show, I
was pregnant. It took all myenergy to just get on the
recording. I was not turning onmy camera. Today I had a little
time.
Okay? So that's why now I'mdoing video.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So you're blaming your daughter for sliding me the
video from
Speaker 3 (01:20):
True. Technology's always changing. When I first
started, it was enough to justhave the audio and now you need
the audio and the video.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So But the weird thing about that is is that as
we see from from season toseason, I've just seen such a a
maturation in your interviewingstyle. Everything is just it's
gone up five notches. And I'm soproud of you.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. My goal is to
get 1% better every season,every episode, every day. And
I'm doing it.
I'm doing it.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Making progress. I got you.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Yes. All right. So as you mentioned, you are my
mentor. You were my mentor inlaw school. You've been my
career mentor.
And the last time we talked, youwere happily a lawyer doing all
the things. But now you'retrying to qualify to become a
judge.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
So there is an upcoming special election in
Baton Rouge for a seat that wasvacated by a judge who just went
up to the first circuit. And soI'm running for that vacancy in
the nineteenth JDC. It is goingto be a very, very interesting
race. There are, from what I'mtold, four other candidates,
including me, that arepotentially going to run. And
(02:26):
this is my first foray intopolitics, so I really don't know
what to expect.
I'm just kind of bringing myauthentic self to the table and
my experiences and hoping thatthe people understand that I
want to be the person that theyelect to make sure that they
have somebody there that theycan truly relate to. And
(02:47):
hopefully, and hopefully that'sit.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah. So, okay. The nineteenth JDC, I've been there
before. I went to law school inBaton Rouge, Louisiana. You're
from New Orleans though.
Why are you running for judge inBaton Rouge?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So I have a deep connection to Baton Rouge and I
told you about this. So mymother is from Baton Rouge, all
my aunts and uncles. Mygrandfather Horace Wesley Moody
Sr. Over intramural sports atseven, he coached football,
coached the offensive line. Heactually coached my uncle Horace
Wesley Moody Jr.
Who recently passed. Condolencesto the family. And now the
(03:21):
intramural complex that sits inthe middle of Southern's campus
is named after him. He was alsoone of the founding members of
NRSA, which is the, and so foras long as I can remember, I was
going to Southern footballgames, home and away every
Sunday in Baton Rouge at mygrandparents' house at 186270
Eighth Avenue in SouthernHeights. I've lived there for
(03:44):
quite some time and it fits.
And also a lot of people don'trealize I spent the majority of
my adult life in Baton Rouge. Imoved to Baton Rouge originally
when I was 22, after I finishedfrom Dillard University And then
went ahead after Katrina, movedaround a little bit, came back
and went to law school atSouthern University Law Center,
(04:05):
which is the best law center onthe face of the earth, has
produced incredible lawyers,which include, but not are
limited, which includes, but isnot limited to my father, who
graduated first in his class in1979, my brother, who you know,
Hunter Thomas, who graduated in2017, my mentors, Teddy Nyshed
(04:25):
and Dietrich Moore, a host ofother people who are on the
campaign committee and justpeople in general in the
community who have really,really touted that as their alma
mater, regardless of wherethey've gone to undergrad. So
deep connection to that.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Okay. All right. Very cool. Yeah. I just celebrated
ten years since graduating fromSouthern University and I cannot
believe it's been ten years.
And it also feels like it was atleast thirty years. Like it
feels like it was so long ago. Idon't know why. I feel like once
you become a lawyer, everythingis just different. Did you ever
have that experience once youwere in Baton Rouge and you're
(05:02):
like, okay, what's this like?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I think the biggest thing was when I opened up my
office in Baton Rouge. And so Iremember coming back from
officer basic course and that'swhen Tedrick had opened up his
office where mine is now, 2415Government Street, shameless
self plug for that office. Andhe told me, Hey, look, you know,
(05:26):
I'm opening up this office. Youneed to hurry up and get in
here. I'm giving you the rightof first refusal.
And he gave me a reallysweetheart deal on rent. Another
classmate of mine was alreadyrenting from It was prime real
estate, prime location. And Iremember calling my best friend
Eddie, and I remember saying,Hey, yo, is it time? He was
like, Hey man, this is theincremental progress that we're
talking about that you have togo ahead and step into it and
(05:48):
take that leap of faith. Goahead and do it.
And you'll feel way betterhaving taken that step. That was
2013. And so from there, aplethora of things have
happened. You know, my fatherpassed multiple active duty
stints, multiple mobilizations.So, yeah, it feels like an
eternity since the last time wetalked in 2021.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I know. I know. So you've mentioned active duty,
which was a big deal in our lastrecording. The whole thing was
about how to be this JAG officerand this big time military
attorney and what that was like.So military experience from New
Orleans, went to school in BatonRouge, have an office in Baton
Rouge running for judge.
(06:31):
How does all of this experiencetie into being a judge? Like,
how does it fit?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
The experience that I've gotten from both the
criminal and the civil side havebeen invaluable. And I think I
can bring a very balancedperspective to the bench. And
that's what I think people want.I think people want to see
somebody who's practiced in theareas. Going back from the
beginning, I've seen a lot ofdifferent experiences from a lot
(06:56):
of different levels in bothcriminal and civil.
When I came out, I was kind ofmeandering about trying to find
my voice and find my space. Iworked for Tender Nightshed for
about a year and a half, twoyears. Also did some contract
work for Dietrich Moore. I thengot on with East Baton Rouge
Parish Public Defender's Officein 2012. At the same time, I
(07:20):
joined United States Army JAGCorps, went away to OBC in 2013
from February to June, cameback, went back to the Public
Defender's Office, did a yearmobilization at Fort Campbell in
the Tennessee Kentucky border indivision administrative law for
a year, came back to the publicdefender's office, then went on
(07:42):
another one year active dutymobilization to Fort Bragg, the
first Special Forces Command,where I was a brigade
prosecutor, I prosecuted sexcrimes and did a host of other
things, including intel law,operational law, ad law.
Came back, during that time.Unfortunately, my father passed
(08:03):
in November, November '20 '16.And so when I got off that
active duty mobilization of FortBragg, I came back and I took
over his office in New Orleans.And in the midst of doing that,
because he had a very robustcivil practice, I had to figure
out the whole civil practicebecause he had two major mass
(08:25):
torts with about 2,504 clientsapiece. He had a catalog and
book of business of about 30personal injury cases.
And I had done some PI stuff. Hehad Will's successions that I
had to complete, which wereinteresting in and of itself
because I hadn't done those inquite a while. At that point
(08:46):
too, also I became a law clerkfor the Honorable Tracey
Fleming's Davalier, who's nowthe Chief Judge of Criminal
District Court in New Orleans.Worked there for about fifteen
months, left there, became amunicipal prosecutor. In the
midst of doing that, 'twenty onethrough 'twenty four, for about
a quarter, three, sometimesfour, four and a half months,
(09:09):
depending upon the year, I wouldleave and go to Fort Knox and be
the command judge advocate forcadet summer training, which is
under the United States ArmyCadet Command.
And so that is the largest, aswe call it, CONUS training event
for the entire army. So 10,000,12 thousand cadets on the ground
at any given time, lots ofdifferent issues. I was legal
(09:32):
advisor for two zero six, whichis full bird colonels, and two
one star Brigadier Generals,'twenty one, 'twenty two,
'twenty three, 'twenty four.It's a lot. And the midst of
that, I wound up moving back toBaton Rouge to become a staff
(09:53):
attorney for the Honorable JudgeColette M.
Please say to M. Greggs. And Ibecame her staff attorney in
2023. And in the midst of that,I was still allowed to keep my
private practice. Some obviouslywasn't in that jurisdiction.
And I worked and worked and Ithink people want to see someone
(10:15):
on the bench that they know canidentify with them because
they've lived either in the areaor had some similar experiences.
And then from a civilstandpoint, know some of the
lawyers are tired of having toexplain certain things over and
over and over again. So theywant judges who truly, truly
understand kind of what some ofthe legal principles are without
(10:36):
having to always spelleverything completely out. And
granted the judges of the 19 JDCare phenomenal. And I've had an
opportunity to learn bothscholastically and
administratively under twounbelievable Black female judges
in New Orleans and in BatonRouge.
It's been invaluable.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah. So would you say that your legal experience
has prepared you to become ajudge or working closely with
other judges, like getting thatbehind the scenes look?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I think both. To understand what it is to wear
the robe and to be basically thearbiter of people's either A,
money or B, their freedom,Right. Depending upon what your
docket is that day. It's anawesome responsibility. And I
think having seen it from both ascholastic and administrative
standpoint in two differentjurisdictions because New
(11:26):
Orleans and Baton Rouge, SixtyThree miles makes a complete
difference in just the day today rigors of kind of what
you're doing in one place versusanother place.
Whereas in one place here in NewOrleans, I was doing a lot more
of the Scholastic things,research and the writing. In
Baton Rouge, I was also doingresearch and writing, but I was
also involved in the day to dayadministration of kind of how
(11:49):
the office moved, speaking withthe attorneys, speaking with
people at the jails, interactingmore with the clerk's office.
And so it comes together in thisbeautiful plume of
understanding, not just from theadvocacy standpoint, having been
a prosecutor and public andprivate criminal defense, but
also what goes on behind thescenes. And there's a lot that
(12:10):
goes into every decision that isrendered, every sentence that is
handed down, every judgment thatis levied. And it makes a huge
difference when you've been ableto see that multiple times,
multiple jurisdictions frommultiple angles.
And I've seen a bunch of obtuseareas of both criminal and a
little bit of civil law as well,but definitely a lot of criminal
(12:33):
from behind the thing.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Yeah. So I'm listening to you and I know that
this is something that you want.And I don't know a better way to
say it. It just sounds like it'sso much work to be a judge. I
mean, I feel like you've alreadydone a lot of hard work.
Is this just the next logicalstep for you?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
I don't know if anybody jumps into politics as
the next logical step. I'll saythis. I really don't know what
I'm getting into per se becauseI've never done this. What I can
say is that I've had theopportunity to study under two
wonderful judges. And I've seenthe tireless effort and energy
(13:13):
that goes into what they do withevery decision that they make
from how they're going to set upthe docket for six weeks out to
what they want me to say in aparticular peculiar that I may
be drafting to even what they'regoing to wear to an event, which
conveys a particular move ondown to Judge Gregg's
investiture, what the menu isgoing to be.
(13:34):
So there are a lot of justancillary little decisions that
go into just running the office,not the least of which is how
you're going to sentencesomebody. And in a lot of the
certain judge's cases, howyou're going to find and how
you're going to rule on theseparticular issues. And to say
that it's less work would bedoing it a real disservice.
(13:55):
Mean, I've done a lot ofdifferent work, but I mean, lot
of it has been for, for lack ofa better term, the betterment of
my career. You know, I was ableto go here and be a command
judge advocate.
Prosecutor. I was able to be apublic defender, which was an
awesome job, by the way. I wasable to be a municipal
prosecutor. I was able to be astaff attorney for two different
judges. And so now you'redealing with not just your own
(14:18):
career and not just your ownadvancement, but you're trying
to do something that is drivenby a desire to make sure that
the people are put in the bestposition possible, whether that
be with their money or withtheir freedom.
The weight sometimes that I'veseen both the judges that clerk
for, the weight that they wereunder was very, very intense. Is
(14:39):
it more difficult? Yes, becausenow you're making decisions that
affect ancillary and tertiaryindividuals on down the line.
One decision about a moneyjudgment and you could bankrupt
the company. Another decisionabout a sentence you could
remove someone from their familyfor a significant amount of
time, and nobody grapples withthat easily.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Earlier, you said you're getting into politics.
Well, I feel like I've watchedenough TV to see people get into
politics. Okay. But there ismore to it. Right?
And so I appreciate that. Imean, it's
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I'm told. That's all I'm told. I'm told there's more
to
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I mean, we only can see from the outside, right?
I've been to the nineteenth JDC.I went to law school in Baton
Rouge, beautiful building. Inever really thought too much
about what happened behind thescenes. I've been to a judge's
celebration when they get in.
I've never really thought aboutwho helped them pick the outfit
or how that conveyed the mood. Ididn't realize that all those
(15:34):
pieces would make sense, but Ifeel like with your career and
your training, you've alreadybeen preparing for this. You
already know how to think acouple steps ahead. You already
know how to make sure everydetail is right. You're not
going to be rude and abusing allof your clerks.
I think it's good.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I know what it is to serve and I know what it is to
represent someone else. And so Iwas keenly aware of the image
that I was putting out and thework product that was coming out
of the office in both of myclerkships. And I truly admire
the people that I worked under,right. From the judges
themselves to the staff and therelationship that you have with
(16:13):
the clerk's office. Ladies andgentlemen that work in the
19JDC's clerk of court's office,they're amazing because they're
the real rock stars.
I couldn't get my job donewithout their help. And so they
were instrumental, you know,having a relationship with them
was very instrumental becauseI'm filing stuff all the time.
You know, my judge wanted stufffiled. She wanted stuff
(16:35):
answered. She wanted stuff aparticular type of way.
I'm like, Hey, however you wantto do it. And so oftentimes I'm
going down to file things threeand four and five times a day.
So when you come to rely onthose people to help you get
your job done, you understand,especially from now being behind
the scenes, because, you know,an attorney, you come in and
file stuff, but you don't seethe love behind the melody, so
(16:59):
to speak, when it comes to,okay, this person's cataloging
this, this person's scanningthat, this person is doing this,
this person's making sure therunner has what they need to get
to you if they need a hard copyfile. This is filed under seal.
The minute clerks, you know,they have to adjust the minutes.
And so you see how it workstogether in a big, plume with
essentially three or fourorganizations working under one
(17:21):
roof in order to make sure thatthe dockets are run, that the
jail and the transport ofinmates is complete, that
evidence is law correctly, andthat basically the record is
kept in complete order to makesure that when you get on the
bench as a judge or you have astaff attorney that's looking
something up, they can go rightto where they believe it's going
(17:43):
to be once they know how to usethe system and find it. And it
gave me such an appreciation foreverybody that works in the
courthouse.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
That's a really good point, right? Like it takes a
team. And then I think it'simportant to see that you've
always been serving and now thiswould be an additional level to
the service, but also you'reacknowledging that it's not just
you. You might be the the judgein that courtroom, but also you
still have a whole team ofpeople behind you. So this
podcast is all about humanizinglawyers.
(18:14):
So let's talk about the funstuff. Uh-oh. So Don't throw
Speaker 1 (18:19):
no softball questions. To hear the real
questions.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
What is this like for the military? Are you still
going to be in the service? Imean, I know they can
technically always call you ifthey need you.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
What's So I came in as a reservist. And so the
active duty stints I was doingwere mobilized reserve tools.
And so, yes, I will continuewith my service. I probably
won't be able to go onto activeduty mobilizations with the same
frequency based on the fact thatif I get elected, I'll have a
(18:52):
doctor to run, but I'll still bethere. I'll still be going to
drill.
I'll still be doing the annualtrainings. I'll still have to
keep up with the educationalqualifications, which I got a
long, long year of that too ifI'm going to make the next rank.
So I'll still be in.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Okay. And then you have a life, you have a family.
How do you do all of this?Coffee? Do you sleep?
How do you balance it all? Doyou believe that there is
balance to it or is it all justkind of integrated?
Speaker 1 (19:23):
So I do believe that flowing through all life is
balance, but there are going betimes when you're going to be
unbalanced. For example, my sonjust made 17. My daughter just
made 14. You have to make thetime. I tend to go to bed early.
I tend to get up early. I get atleast an hour and a half on my
(19:44):
heavy days in the gym. I'm inthe gym or working out five days
out of the week. I come, I havea very routine and regimented
schedule. Some people say I'mtoo regimented in certain
things.
I like to think that disciplinekind of helps me move along
about my day. And you have tomake sure that you make the time
because those times areprecious. I'm now looking at two
teenagers, you know, at thepoint in time at which we had
(20:07):
the prior podcast, they wereyounger. The conversation was
different and fatherhood wasimportant to both my father and
my grandfather. And you see itas you view the legacy of those
men as successive generationscome behind.
And I'm, yeah, balance is cool,but sometimes I got to be
(20:28):
unbalanced. Sometimes I'm notgoing to bed till late. I gotta
get up early, but that's theprice you pay if you wanna try
to have everything done at thesame time in the same day while
still making sure everybody getswhat they need.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I feel like I'm enjoying the fact that people
are being more honest aboutthese things. I like the fact
that you're sharing thesethings. Like sometimes there's
balance. It's very important,but also at times life isn't
balanced and that's just life.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
You're going to be unbalanced. The question is, is
the effort matching what it ispeople want from you? And is it
matching what you want fromyourself? And again, what people
want from you, it may vary fromperson to person. I'm going be
honest with you.
I've got certain nonnegotiables. For one, if there's
a major event and I'm in town orI can get there, I'm going to
(21:16):
get there. Right? If I promiseyou that I will be somewhere,
unless it's an absoluteemergency, I plan on being Now,
can I be at every event, be incourt in this parish, be here
doing that? No.
And so my son figured out very,very early what I really, really
want you at dad and kind ofwhat, Hey, look, if you can make
(21:38):
it, I appreciate it. My daughtersame way. She's like, daddy, I
really want you at this. So sheshe's going to NOCA in the fall.
And I came down for cool kidscollective, something that she
does with video, videoproduction because she's going
to NOCA for media arts.
And so she had a hand in thebackstage production of a couple
(22:01):
of short films. She was like,Dad, I want you to come to this.
And so I came. But what I wantfor myself is to be able to at
least say I made the nonnegotiables, right? And I was
always present as much as Ipossibly could be with time
permitting.
Even rearranging some stuff tomake sure that I was there for.
Same way I do for clients when Igo to the jail on the weekends
(22:25):
after my daughter's eighth gradegraduation.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I I feel like as lawyers, we're taught to move
that way. It's part of problemsolving. If I got to do these
eight things, I got to find thetime for these eight things.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Learned very, very early that a lot of what I've
been able to make my bones on isdoing the work. Like I'll go to
the house, your house at 10:00at night, you know, and talk
with you about the situation.I'll go to the jail. Know, East
Baton Rouge Parish prisonersright around the corner. So I
would go there on a Saturday,you know, and just say something
(23:02):
and come back home.
And so just that constant effortyou get used to that as your
heartbeat. And, you know,sometimes it comes off a little
intense and I get, I come off alittle intense at times when it
comes to it, but I'm so used tothe heartbeat being okay, now
this, now that, now this, nowthat. When I'm hearing your
problem, the analysisimmediately goes to, okay, if
(23:24):
it's a civil situation, have wedone this, this, this, this,
this? If it's a criminalsituation, do we know this,
this, this, this, this? What doI have access to?
What is the case law that I needto think about? And then in the
midst of all that, Hey man, thisis about 05:00. My son got a
game at seven. You know, mydaughter has something she has
at eight. How do I balance allof that?
(23:46):
And sometimes I'm thinking aboutone thing while at another
thing. Like, Hey, oh, greatbaby. Okay. What time can I get
to the jail tomorrow? It's like,Ugh.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yeah. I mean, that's life. That's definitely life.
Being a lawyer, having our legaleducation is really good
training for life and for doingeverything in life. It's just,
you got to plan it.
You got to be intentional withit. Earlier in the call,
mentioned being in alignment.Would you say that your life is
in alignment right now?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I think mentally, physically, and spiritually, I'm
coming into that alignment. As Igo through this campaign
process, I think what I'm tryingto do is give everybody my
authentic self. And again, Ican't tell you everything that I
always want to say right off thecuff because that's just not how
life is. And sometimes I willhave to be a lot more measured.
(24:37):
But I do think that my career,my life experiences, the people
that I've worked for, the peoplewho have vouched for me, the
people who took time to give mecorrection and direction and
mentorship have all kind ofpoured into me and said, Hey,
look, it might be the time foryou to go ahead and do this.
And I've always wanted to do it.My father ran for judge, when he
(25:01):
was in when he was about my agemany, many years ago.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, I don't tell people a lot. I was thinking
about wearing a shirt from hiscampaign, kind of doing the same
culture but I could not find theshirt. And so what I would
probably do is tear my mother'shouse looking for it and frame
it and hang it up because BatonRouge has given me so much. It's
(25:27):
given me really a trueunderstanding of who I am as an
adult. It's given me a hugeconnection to Southern
University where my grandmotherwas actually the principal at
Southern Lab at one point too.
So just the deep connection thatI have to just that university
into that city is it'simmeasurable. I remember jogging
(25:48):
at night and I don't advisepeople doing that, but jogging
at night through banks, youknow, running by the plant on my
five mile runs, you know, myiPod, just thinking about
different things.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
IPod? How old are you?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. We're not gonna crack age
jokes.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Do you want your kids to go to Southern?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Sure. My son wants to go to Southern. My daughter, I
think she'll probably, if shehas her way, will probably go to
film school. I want one of themselfishly. I want one of them to
go to Southern University LawCenter.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Oh, there's not a lot of lawyers that want their
children to be lawyers. Sothat's surprising to me.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Well, my dad wanted me to be a lawyer and he wanted
my brother and I to be lawyers.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
So y'all
Speaker 1 (26:34):
completely That's not exactly true. But my son said he
wants to be a pediatrician or anactor. So he's got the acting
bug. He's talented in theater.My daughter will likely go to
film school.
So if they touch SouthernUniversity's campus undergrad or
in some sort of grad program insome way, shape, form, or
fashion, I think the legacy willbe continued.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
So you are a regimented lawyer who raised
creative children. That's kindof interesting.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I'm creative. I was talented in theater. Did some
childhood acting. Trying to makeme sound like I'm a stiff.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
No, I mean, from the first interview, we actually
talked about the musicconference that you have. Don't
you guys still have that, theentertainment law?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
So the Cutting Edge Music Business Conference was
originally started by my fatherand my paran, Eric Hager. Now
we're going 30. And it wasoriginally designed to kind of
be similar to South by Southwestwhere lawyers can come and get
education in the television,film and music industry. And a
(27:40):
lot of it kind of changed asdigital media changed, you know,
streaming, downloading, how toquantify certain things, how to
make a living. Typically, what Ido from the entertainment law
standpoint is I deal with theethical issues and I also deal
with a lot of work for hireactors because Louisiana at one
(28:01):
point was really bringing in awhole lot of movie productions.
And so I would get a whole lotof people who have the talented
and acting bug. They would kindof want to know what the work
for hire contracts were and ifthey got featured extras and
just a lot of document reviewand kind of telling people what
their left and right limits are.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah. So, okay. I'm just thinking about it. There is
creativity within your life,right? Feel like all lawyers No,
I think that all lawyers arecreative.
I think that the way that we putcase law together, way that you
can see a set of facts and youcan see something completely
different from someone else. Ithink all of that is creativity,
(28:44):
even if it's not, you know,picking up a paintbrush and
painting something. So I'm justthinking about it. You know, my
kiddo likes to come downstairsand like play with the
microphones and things. And Iwonder if she's going go the
complete opposite because shesees me here doing media
production.
And so she might be like, Idon't want all that fluffy
stuff. I want to do somethingstrict. Right? So I'm just
(29:06):
curious.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Well, I will say this. In the beginning of my
career, it was brutal. And I'mgoing to send a shout out to
Greg Barthard, who was actuallymy first client who I got from
working as a night auditor atthe Crown Plaza Hotel. So shout
out to Greg for actually beingmy first client and giving me an
opportunity to represent. Sothank you, Greg, wherever you
are, thank you.
But it's difficult for a lot ofyoung lawyers because you don't
(29:30):
know what you don't know. Andone thing Tedrick and Dietrich
always taught me and one thingthat my father showed me was
that one, you're not a lawyeruntil you have a client, right?
Two, you kind of need to get upunder somebody to show you how
to do things, right? So thatyou're not making the kind of
mistakes that wind up gettingpeople disbarred. And again,
(29:52):
you're going to, it's not aboutmaking the mistake.
It's about making the hugemistakes that either cost
somebody their life or costsomebody a goo gob of money that
winds up putting you on the backburner and winds up having
people or doing somethingunethical like taking money and
not doing the job, which is, andI've heard of stories of people
(30:12):
doing that. And that's a huge nono for me, huge no no. So you
need somebody to kind of teachyou those things. And I've been
blessed to have a father whoI've seen have a very, very
ethical and community basedpractice. And I've had two
mentors that have really pouredinto me, Tedrick and Dietrich
have poured into me probablymore than any other lawyers out
(30:33):
there.
My time, I cut my teeth at BatonRouge and I love every minute of
it.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yeah. So my last question here, I'm going to
switch it up a little bit. Willyou still get to practice law
once you become judge? No. Orare you practicing in a
different way because you're onthe bench?
Like, is it, what are thedetails? So
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I think people forget that judges are still lawyers.
So judges are still lawyers. Soyou are still subject to the
rules of the bar association andthe judiciary, but you are not
actively representing a clientreal or juridicals interests. So
now you are an arbiter of theissue that comes in front of
(31:17):
you, whether that be criminal orcivil. And so by that virtue,
you're supposed to be, as afriend of mine once said, an
umpire calling balls andstrikes, as opposed to somebody
who's actually in the gamepitching war back.
So now you're the ump. And soyou have to know what you're
doing. It's a lot of reading.Lot of the, both the judges that
(31:38):
I worked for, they werevoracious readers. Every judge
that I've known personally hasbeen a voracious reader of the
law and just of just otheraspects of politics and life in
general.
And you bring your perspectiveto the bench, whatever that
perspective is. Hopefully, it'sa balance point. You know,
sometimes it may be differentthan somebody else's, but that's
(32:01):
what makes it beautiful.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yeah. I think that's a good place for us to end
because you just explained howyou have all of this experience.
You get to bring all of that tothe bench. That's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
So, Yaan, you cut me off. That's the end of the
interview?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Only because my next guest is here. I don't know why
y'all popping up early. Ithought it was at 12:30. I
haven't even eaten today. Todayhas been bananas.
Okay. So today's episode, golisten to that one. I
interviewed Samora, but also Iinterviewed two his board
members for like this dentalfund that they run. Wi Fi issues
and Haiti was, you know what Imean? And it was like, I've
(32:35):
never interviewed three peopleat one time.
I was like, damn, I'm like aprofessional.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
You've been a professional for quite some
time. Look, you're not fornothing. The belief that I have
in you and your ability, Kyla,is just, it's over and it gushes
when I talk to you.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Is this gushing?
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I'm gushing. I don't know about you. I'm gushing
because I know from the firsttime that I met you in the
library during pre law, when youwere trying to read God knows
how long
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Look, I was scared, man. I was scared.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I mean, look, it puts the fear in you, but like pre
law doesn't it didn't count tillnow. Yeah. Right? When you have
a successful podcast that willhopefully rival Joe Rogan and
the rest of the guys very, verysoon.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I mean, that's It's been a
Speaker 1 (33:24):
wonderful journey. But I've been able to see the
whole journey and it's aweinspiring. Because I mean, you
could have quit a couple oftimes.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I could have quit a lot of times. I don't really
have that thought. I neverreally think about stopping
because somebody wants to hearthe story. Somebody wants to run
for judge. Somebody wants to bein the military and be a lawyer.
Somebody wants to live 63 milesbetween where they work and they
wanna know how to do it. Right?Like, I created this podcast
because no one was talking aboutthis stuff and I still don't
(33:53):
think people are talking aboutit. So I'll keep doing it. I'll
keep doing it.
You Are a Lawyer is the onlytask or project I have that I
don't even have on my calendarbecause I know every Thursday
there's an episode. I know Ihave to record. Like a lot of
other things, it's like, oh,nail appointment, pick up the
baby.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
It's Buy some groceries. So it's it's
completely ingrained ineverything and every fiber of
your
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Completely ingrained. It's completely ingrained. So,
it's fun. It's fun. It's amazingthat it's been going for five
years because, like, it'spicking up.
I can't even tell you when weget off of this recording, I
probably have three people whojust signed up to be a guest. It
is unbelievable how it likerose. I am constantly recorded
five months in advance.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I'm not gonna lie to you. Everything begins with
belief.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Everything begins with belief. Like we both had
belief in what we were doing.And look, I believed in you. I
saw it in you when we first hadthat first conversation. I was
like, Oh no, this is really andtruly I'm paying it forward to
you the same way people paid itforward to me.
And I think that gets lost onpeople oftentimes when they
think it's supposed to be just,Okay, I take off and, you know,
(34:58):
thank you for everything, buteverybody else, you don't touch
other lives. And I think thatdoes a disservice to everybody
else in a particular professionand around you.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
No, it's true. I mean, because a lot of people
ask me what I get out of thepodcast and I'm like, besides
talking to different people,I've only met maybe seven of the
lawyers in real I met you. But Imean, like, even I talk to a
Southern University graduateevery year, I pitch to these
people on LinkedIn. These aren'talways people that I've met.
(35:28):
Right?
Like all of this stuff is new.And so it's amazing. I think to
be able to create something outof your bare hands is like
amazing. And so you've done thatwith your career. I'm doing that
with the podcast.
We're both doing it with ourlives. Like you're creating
every day.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I will say this, I will push back on that. I didn't
do it with my bare handsnecessarily. Some people gave me
direction and materials and aplan and said, all right, this
is a blueprint. You can do ithowever you want to. However,
right, this worked for me, thismay not work for you, but if you
do at least these five things,read, pay attention, observe,
(36:08):
keep your mouth shut when peoplewho are talking to you know more
than you, and then acceptconstructive criticism when
things happen and somebody'staking the time to kind of pull
you aside as many people havedone for me, pull me aside and
say, Hey, look, this was good.
Work on this, read this, dothat, and maybe you may shift.
(36:29):
Or, Hey, join the JAG Corps.Like it may be a great
opportunity for you to learn thepractice of law from another
perspective. I feel like thespirit of my grandfather, Horace
Moody, my grandmother, myfather, my mother, the whole
Moody clan at Southern, and thena product of a lot of fine
education and tutelage fromSouthern graduates and Southern
(36:51):
professors. Because it really isthe greatest lost world on the
planet.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
It is, it is. I mean, we knew you were going to be
successful. Your dad is fromOhio. I'm from Ohio. Was
preordained.
Thank you so much for everybodywho's listening who is in East
Baton Rouge Parish, who knowssomeone in East Baton Rouge
Parish, please share the podcastepisode and let them know there
(37:15):
is a judicial race coming up.Everybody get And if you're in
New Orleans and you knowsomebody, you know, share it.
Tell tell a friend that tells afriend. Right? I'm in Ohio.
We're talking about it.Everybody is connected in one
way or another. So thank you somuch for sharing your story.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Thank you so much for giving me video time too instead
of just audio.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Alright. Alright. You. Bye. Bye.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Thank you for listening to You Are A Lawyer.
If you enjoyed this episode,share it with a friend and leave
a rating of this podcast. Newepisodes are released every
week. So keep taking risk inyour legal and I will talk to
you on the next episode. Bye.
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