January 2, 2024 • 51 mins
Have you ever felt caught in life's whirlwind, especially after the life-changing event of becoming a parent? Jenna Hermans joins us to share her journey from a world turned upside down to one of profound tranquility. As an expert in psychology and human resources, mother, and entrepreneur, Jenna unfolds her story in her insightful book "From Chaos to Calm," offering strategies to navigate through life's storms. Listen as we chat about the art of creating peace within chaos and fostering a life of intention that soothes the nervous system and the soul.
Stepping into the realm of courage and personal boundaries, Jenna's experiences at Be Courageous reveal the subjective nature of bravery and its myriad faces. Whether it's through the laughter of friends or the intimate negotiations about music volume in a marriage, Jenna demonstrates that courage is not one-size-fits-all. Her mission to inspire one billion moments of courage underscores the significance of psychological safety in nurturing bravery in both our personal and professional lives. This episode is a journey into the heart of what it means to stand tall in the face of life's varied challenges.
Wrapping up with practical wisdom, Jenna guides us through the 'Five Pillars of Calm' – efficient use of our natural energy, healthy habits, the power of community, effective communication, and genuine self-care. Each pillar offers a refuge from the overwhelm of daily life and a step towards a more serene existence. By embracing her relatable anecdotes and actionable advice, we're invited to not just listen but transform our own lives. And remember, with Jenna's newsletters and blog posts, we're just a click away from extending this calm to others – because life, after all, is a journey we only take once.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, this is Jenna Hermans.
When you look back on your life, I hope you live with
intentionality, compassion,courage and calm, because you
only go once.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello, hello, hello everyone.
Welcome to you.
Only Go Once where we explorestories around the limited time
we have on this earth to createa fully layered life.
I'm joined with my fabulousco-host, Eileen Grimes, and
we're here with a great guest,Eileen kick us off.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Thanks, cheryl.
So today we have Jenna Hermans.
Jenna is living proof that youcan create a life of calm within
chaos and overwhelm.
She uses her bachelor's degreein psychology, master's degree
in organizational management andover 15 years of human
resources experience to buildstrong teams both at work and at
(00:56):
home.
Jenna is the co-founder of BeCourageous, a busy mama for
coach and author, as seen inForbes, the Sun, elle, yahoo and
more.
Jenna takes an intentional andinclusive approach to help
people, especially parents,implement tools that put
organization and system aroundtheir busy lives, that infuse
calm and more joy, helping themgo from chaos to calm, which
(01:19):
doubles as the title of herdebut book that launched in May
of 2023.
And I will say that for ourlisteners who can't see it, we
see the book behind Jenna here,so that is very exciting.
But welcome Jenna, we are soglad to have you here with us
tonight.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to talk to youboth today.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, so this is just one of my favorite parts of the
week, I'll be honest, andCheryl and I haven't had a
chance to talk for a littlewhile, so I always feel like I
get an opportunity to just be inher space too, which is
wonderful.
You're not getting rid of me,my friend, anytime soon.
Yeah, so, jenna, I mean one.
(02:04):
Your bachelor's in psychology,master's degree in
organizational management and 15years of human resources that
is a lot of background to beable to put into something like
this.
You know, when you're you, youobviously wrote this book and
have this, did you?
It's interesting.
We've had a lot of authors on.
Did you always know you wantedto write a book?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
No, I never imagined writing a book.
I've always enjoyed writing,but never thought that I would
become an author or wouldpublish a book.
That was the furthest thoughtfrom my mind of something that I
would do in this lifetime.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, and so I mean, like you hear a lot of people
like, oh, it's on my bucket, Ihave to write my book, I have to
write my book.
I certainly was not in thatcamp in any way shape or form,
so it's kind of fun just to seewhat people's journey is into
doing that.
So just tell us a little bitmore.
Tell us about yourself and whatyou're doing and you know what
(02:58):
is it that for you?
You know, obviously, from chaosto calm means something for you
and you know what does thatlook like in your journey from
going to chaos to calm.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Such a good question, Eileen, and so for me, what,
what chaos is, is aninterpretation of our
environment right.
Because we as individuals allinterpret what's going on in our
lives differently.
You know, even when we liveunder the same roof, like my
husband, if I hear the kidsrunning around being loud,
(03:39):
stomping and being all crazylike as long as no one's crying
and screaming I'm like this isgreat, everyone's having a great
time and that is.
That's fine for me and for him,he, his nervous system is on
fire.
He cannot handle that right.
It's too much noise, and evenif it's happy noise, right.
And so the interpretation ofchaos and how it affects our
(04:02):
nervous system is really thething that that captured me when
I recognized that my nervoussystem was bright, and that was
after our fourth child was bornand my, my husband, I, started
our business together.
Be courageous.
That's now.
(04:22):
It's been six and a half years,and thank you.
Yeah, what a what a journey.
And having started thatbusiness when our youngest was
six months old and about, and wehad just moved from Los Angeles
to San Francisco no friends, nofamily, no one here around us.
(04:42):
So we were building a life fromscratch with all these human
beings, with a new business.
My kid, my big kid's biologicalmother was still in the picture
at the time but then actuallywas on her way out, and so it
was.
There was so much transition andin the in the becoming of a, of
(05:03):
a biological mother and whatthat means and what that does to
the body and the psyche and thespirit, right, my, my nervous
system was completely shot.
It was all too much and I washaving frequent and debilitating
panic attacks on the regularand it hit me that this is
(05:24):
unsustainable.
I don't want to do this anymoreand I do have the tools and the
ability to figure out right howto do this differently and how
to own my own calm inside ofmyself so that I could show up
for my family and my businessand myself right as the best
(05:45):
person that I could for me, mykids, my husband, my colleagues,
my employees, the community atlarge, definitely.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I.
I mean just what you're sayingresonates so, so deeply for me
and yeah, I mean I remember my Isay this, I've said this before
, but you know, having my, myfirst child, I didn't know how
to be a human for at least ayear.
It's like there is like this,it's like your entire self
(06:19):
understanding is ripped apartand now you're trying to fit in
this new thing and this wholepersona of what it means to be a
parent and I just I don't knowhow these pieces fit anymore.
I don't know how to do this,let alone, obviously, taking
care of this completelydependent person now on you.
(06:43):
And there's just this wholeentire shift in that and I mean
it's amazing going in and, likeyou said, finding what that comm
is or even just recognizingthat you're not in the space of
comm and knowing what tools andwhat resources that you need to
(07:04):
find or do for yourself selfcare.
But that's a I mean we couldprobably go off onto that one,
right.
Which doesn't mean it's going tothe spa, but you know, I just I
.
It speaks so deeply to me inthat, and I was also one of six,
(07:25):
so growing up with a loudhousehold was very common and
just noise constantly was.
You know, my mom taught musicin the house, so like there
wasn't quiet wasn't a thing forus, right.
But now having neurodivergentchildren also, and what that
means sensorily is, has made merethink a lot of those things
(07:47):
too.
So I appreciate that.
So when you talk about yourcomm, what does that look like
for you and how do you, how doyou get there and what kind of
things are you doing?
Or maybe things you can share?
We don't want to share thewhole book, but just if there's
some things that might behelpful for listeners to just be
able to pick up on.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, absolutely the.
You know the how I define mycalm is well, there's the
physiological sense of calm,right, when you're not in fight,
fight or freeze, when you areat ease, right, you feel safe
and your nervous system isn'tactivated and you feel regulated
right, and so that's kind ofbaseline physiological, human
(08:32):
calmness.
But what I like to talk aboutmore specifically with calm and
my and my calm and my journey tounderstanding and figuring out
what this concept truly, trulyis, is and this 10, when I, when
I talk about this, it tends tobe a little, I don't want to say
, controversial, but it getspeople a little heated sometimes
(08:53):
, because a lot of people think,you know, when someone's
dysregulated, they go calm down,right, and oh, there is no
faster way to get someone moredysregulated than to say those
words, right.
And my response to that isactually I want us to calm up,
(09:18):
and calming up is it's not about, you know, the idea of getting
slow and getting quiet.
Let's sit on, you know, andcrisscross applesauce on our
pillow and meditate.
No, that's not what calm is.
That is a method to gettingcalm for some people, but that's
not what calm actually is rightand the way that I see calm
(09:43):
through the research that I'vedone in my own just personal
experience and coaching ofpeople and the workshops and
speaking that I do is that calmis actually when you're in flow,
when you have energy, and formyself, like I know, I'm calm
when I am thinking creatively,when I feel energized and I am
(10:04):
actually in high energy, rightVersus low and slow and quiet.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, just the be calm piece.
Definitely I can see Cheryl.
I could tell you, if I toldCheryl to be calm, I don't even
live close to her anymore, butshe might boot me halfway across
the world.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
It's, and I've had this conversation so many times.
It's become a running joke withmy manager and it's our running
joke that we say so.
My manager and work and I wereboth Italian Americans and we
say that there's a trigger wordthat if you tell anybody, relax
you better run is what shouldhappen.
Right, and it's funny because Ihear what you're saying,
(10:53):
because we talked about thebeginning, about how you have
kids and if they're like highenergy and they're doing stuff
and that's fun, and yourhusband's like no, thank you,
this is too loud.
That's kind of how I operate inmy space here.
My husband voraciously in lovewith music, of all sorts of
things.
I like music.
(11:13):
I don't like music at certaindecibels it unnerves me to no
end.
There are times where I can beperfectly quiet, or if I'm
surrounded by the dialogue in amovie, I'm all set right.
That to me is like my perfectamount of loud.
(11:33):
His is more like Viking metal,heavy metal, all the different
metals, any metals that youcould explain.
He loves it.
And then there's like progmusic and there's all that stuff
and that to me is like there'sabout five minutes for me where
that's calm and then after thatI'm like I can't do it anymore,
(11:55):
like I need to go away.
So it's very interesting to hearyour concept of calming up,
because I would probably needcoaching from you on how to do
that, because I don't know howthat works Exactly, and I love
it that.
So I was.
While you two were chatting, Iwas looking up your website, be
(12:19):
Courageous, which is yourcompany, and I love that.
You know, one of your taglineshere is our right to exist,
right, but it goes beyond.
That is what you said, and youhave a goal to activate one
billion moments of courage.
So what does that mean to youexactly?
Because everybody has differentmodes of courage.
Like Eileen goes paraglidingyou know I did this podcast
(12:44):
there's levels, so I'd love tohear what your definition of
that is and what that goalentails.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, and I love that you talked about the spectrum,
right, because courage for you,eileen, is different than
courage for you, cheryl, andwhich is probably different
courage for me, right, based onour backgrounds and our genetics
and how we were raised, ourcultures and all these different
contextual things that make upthe human that we are.
(13:13):
And so courage is being able togo past that comfort zone area,
right Of saying I know thatthis is what's best.
And getting out of your own way, cause, generally it's.
We have filters, uprightfilters, whether they're it's
usually in our thinking, rightThings, censorship that gets in
the way that says no, you can'tdo that because of some obscure,
(13:36):
random voice in your headsaying I can't or I shouldn't or
something as bad is going tohappen.
When it's you know about havinga courageous conversation, right
, it could be just words you areactually okay, right, and being
able to go and say I'm going togo outside my comfort zone, I
(13:56):
am okay, or maybe I even won'tbe, but I'm going to go and do
this thing that is, in my owndefinitions, right Of this is a
courageous thing that I'm goingto do because this is my own
choice, right, this is, this iscoming from my background and my
(14:17):
history and my context as well.
Right Cause, when we talk aboutin the workplace, when you have
psychological safety in yourworkplace, you're more likely to
be courageous and, to you know,push on a boundary or offer up
a creative idea than if youdon't have that safety.
And so the context really isimportant when talking about
(14:41):
courage in the workplace and aswell as in personal life as well
.
I mean anywhere, right, but thedefinition is different for
every person of what couragemeans to them.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Interesting.
Well, it's so funny too because, gerald, as you say, some of
this too, like yes, I wentparagliding.
However, to me, that's notcourageous.
Like I right, like that's not,I know, but that's not.
That's not how I def, how Idefine it.
Right, that's I, like I'm, youknow, I like doing crazy stuff
(15:16):
like that.
That's just for me.
Like physical things are alwaysreally fun for me to push
myself further.
And what I find very courageous,though, is doing for me, is
doing things that, like I meanstanding up for myself feels
courageous.
Like that is from someone whohas a hard time and has had a
hard time historically and hasworked on standing up and
(15:39):
speaking for myself and speakingfor others.
When I see that there arethings that are not right in the
way that we exist in this world, in a way, an organization
might be handling specificsituations around things.
Like, to me that's courageous.
And those are the acts where Ifeel that I'm pushing forward on
(16:02):
something that touches myvalues in a way that if I, if I
don't, if I don't act or if Idon't say or if I don't do
something in those, then I'mgoing against who I am and I
think that that act in and ofitself is courageous, so I'm
just crazy outside of that.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
No, and you know, I really resonate with that,
eileen, because I also am kindof very physical, right, I've
done trathlons and marathons andin all of these, and what is it
?
I've gone skydiving a bunch oftimes and like, for me, that's,
that's not.
I never felt like that wassomething courageous, that I was
doing right, I'm quitting a job, when I've when I've quit jobs
(16:45):
historically and gone into theunknown, for me that that's not
a courageous act.
There's a lot of trust in thatand in the universe and that I
can do this, it's fine.
It's hard, but I can do hardthings.
But going and, like you said,standing up for myself or I'm a
people pleaser, right, or ratherI'm a recovering people pleaser
, saying no, yeah, right, likesaying no to somebody, that is
(17:11):
courageous for me and holding upmy boundaries and holding on to
my yeses and my no's.
That when I step into that,that is a place where I need to
hope to get into my courage andsay what's the courage needed
here in this scenario?
Right, and to flex that couragemuscle of I need to do what's
the greatest good for me, forthem, you know, and that usually
(17:35):
has to do with my boundaries.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Oh boundaries.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I just you're completely correct and I'd feel
the same way.
So, yeah, because like, oh, Idon't need boundaries, I just.
Then everyone can do what theyneed and they feel happy.
Right, and that's great for me,and I've learned that over time
and it's still something thatI'm working on, certainly, so
that that resonates prettydeeply for me.
What about you, cheryl?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Cheryl, wow, okay.
So I think because I am highlyintroverted, every stretch
outside my comfort zone is a bigstep towards being somewhat
(18:27):
courageous.
I do love the quote that'sattributed to Eleanor Roosevelt
about doing something thatscares you.
She says at least once a day.
I go by once a year and I'mhappy, like that's way outside
my comfort zone, I'm good.
This year it was the podcastand writing a book and getting a
(18:49):
book published.
Those are the things that were.
You know, they were kind of outthere in the ether.
Eileen is the person that helpsme jump over my comfort zone
line a lot of times becauseshe'll go come on, we can do
this, this is happening, we'retotally going to do this and
this is happening.
Okay, you know she's stilltrying to convince me that at
(19:11):
some point we're going to dothis podcast with video and I'm
not there yet.
So baby steps For me.
I see it in other people.
Eileen and I co-founded awomen's group at our
organization a while ago andit's been fun watching, but fun
(19:31):
and also, you know, internallyyou pitter patter your heart
pitter patters for them.
But we've had a lot of womenthat were like I never thought I
could do something like thatand it's way outside their
comfort zones.
But we see that spark in themthat we kind of go, yeah, you
can do it and I'll go like we'llbe here.
You know we'll be here with thenets and all the things, but
(19:52):
you know we're here.
I too am a people pleaser.
You know there's a saying and Idon't know who said it, but you
know, if you people who try toplease their parents grow up to
be people pleasers, right,because you're just keep on
going, that that piece right.
(20:12):
And I see that in a lot of likemy friends and I see it because
we all don't want to offend oneanother.
Now I see that in mostly myfemale friends.
My male friends are like, yeah,we're totally doing this and
it's cool, like that to them isnot a level of courage.
That to them, is just whywouldn't I do that?
I see that my husband sometimes.
(20:34):
So I'll do something and I'mlike, and he just goes, what?
What are you?
What's the noise?
Why are you holding on to theside of the car for dear life?
Like this is normal stuff.
So it's.
It's interesting the concept ofthis and I'm sure, jenna, from
your perspective, to for foryour years and human resources.
(20:54):
I'm sure your level ofcourageousness, that button has
been pushed many, many timesright, because I admire people
and human resources, because thelevel of calm they have to
exhibit, with all the crazy thatpeople do it is like a true
(21:15):
testament of why they're in theroles that they are.
I don't know where I was goingwith this, but what I'm saying
is I think that with yourexperience and with all of your,
your educational background,this book just seems like a
natural transition, right, ifyou will, to get into this and
(21:39):
especially since, now thatyou're, you know,
congratulations you're now amulti type in it success story,
because you've got the book,you've got your own business.
You are a mother for hyphen it,hyphen it, hyphen it.
Right.
Where do you think?
Where do you draw your courage?
(22:01):
You know from from where do youdraw your own personal courage?
How does that work for you?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Wow, I've never been asked that before and I really
appreciate that question.
Thank you for asking it.
I would say it depends on thecontext of where a meeting
deflects that courage muscle.
And sometimes in my head andimmediately went to my husband
and kids, is where I tend topull a lot of that strength of
(22:34):
being a role model for mychildren, being the best partner
that I can for my, for mypartner, because he's not only
my partner in life but he's mybusiness partner.
We founded be courageoustogether and he inspires me to
live courageously every day ashe, as he does, and I mean his
story is is an incredible one aswell.
(22:54):
But this podcast not about him,that's about me.
That's right.
And so where I draw the courage, I'd say it's.
It's something that I've beenflexing for a long time and it
continues to evolve as I get toknow myself better and learn
(23:17):
about my own being right.
As I evolve, I notice, oh,there's this new evolution of me
and I am pretty stoked aboutthat.
Right, and I want to continueseeing where it goes.
And the only way that I cancontinue to be on this path of
evolution is by being courageousand by by committing to myself
(23:40):
that I am.
I want to see what I'm capableof and how I can be the best
version of myself, and all ofthe ways, and that continued
commitment to myself and to myfamily and community is what
gives me the strength to keepflexing that courage muscle and
(24:03):
to keep showing up as beingcourageous and every decision
that I make, because it is, it's, it's micro moments, it's not
these big overarching, you know,things that we think of that
it's like oh, that was such acourageous choice to make a
courageous ask, you know to, I'mgoing to go to the moon?
No, that, that guess, that couldbe courageous, sure, but that's
not.
You know that it's in thesemicro moments of making choices
(24:28):
that are integrates andintentional and thoughtful of
what is, what is the, what arethe repercussions of that choice
.
Right, it could be as simple aswhat I'm in what am I going to
make for dinner?
Or how am I going to respond tomy kids when they ask me a big
question?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Or even a small one, though all of those little
things are actually courageouswhen I come at it with
intentionality and from a placeof desiring to give my best in
every moment.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
I really like what you were saying about the muscle
right of it and I'm curious asto if you would agree with this
statement from what it soundslike, right.
Well, there's two statements.
One is that courage can bebuilt over time.
Right, you can sort of buildthat piece up.
(25:28):
Maybe we'll pause for a secondjust to make sure we get Jenna
back.
There we go.
That was totally fine, okay,good.
Yeah, so courage can be builtover time, and our definition of
(25:50):
courage can change over time.
You know, as life throwsparenting into the mix, as life
brings in the passing of lovedones, as heartache becomes a
thing, as world events show usdifferent ways of the existence
of humanity, and you know,there's so many pieces that then
(26:14):
inform us into what couragereally means for you now, in
this moment, in this time ofyour life.
Would you agree that that'strue for both of those things?
Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I would say that I believe that it's the expression
of courage that evolves overtime, right, that as we continue
our becoming right, thatevolution, that our relationship
with courage evolves as wellwhen we're intentional about it,
when we're thinking, when weactually have a relationship
(26:54):
with it, that it evolves as wedo, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yeah, and I think for me at least, you know really
understanding what that meansfor me started with a courageous
act which was being reflectiveenough of myself, or taking a
second to say, oh shit, who am I, where am I coming from?
(27:22):
What does that mean in my life?
Like really just taking themoment to turn inward.
For me was courageous, becausegetting a peek, sometimes behind
the curtain, can be aterrifying thing, to have to
expose yourself and to reallylook inward and understand who
(27:42):
we are.
I mean, there was a piece of myjourney that was a part of that
and very difficult to gothrough.
I assume you work with peoplewho you know to do that kind of
work.
What does that look like whenyou're starting some of this
work with them?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
You know, there's a lot of vulnerability that ends
up being shared right,especially in this work, when
you're talking about courage andyou're helping someone navigate
the complexities of theirexistence, because it's not ever
just oh, let's talk about thisone component, even if that's
(28:23):
where someone started, right,they're like I'm going to come
in and we're just going to talkabout how I can elevate in my
career, but it's never justabout that.
It is so much more.
And so we end up going throughso many other elements of life
values and priorities,backgrounds, ambitions and goals
, and true deep desires andtrauma, right of what someone
(28:50):
has gone through that's led themto this point, that has then
guided them to believe that theywant this next thing.
And they say, guided them tobelieve they want it, because a
lot of it is messaging that wehave received from society, from
our families of origin, fromschool and teachers you know you
must be ambitious and you mustclimb the corporate ladder and
(29:14):
you must have children, and youknow you must, you must, you
must.
And, ultimately, when we areclear and with ourselves and
have that integrity and theopenness and the freedom and
courage to listen to what's deepinside of ourselves that we've
(29:34):
been pushing down and notallowing ourselves to think
about, let alone believe, thatthere's usually so much more
that comes from our timetogether that influences every
part of life, not just thetrajectory of their career.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Absolutely, yeah, I mean, and it's incredible to
what having doing thatindividually, but then also when
you're able to do that incommunity or in a shared space
with someone else, like there issomething, I just think there's
something magical that happenswhen one you're going through
that, but then also being seenand feeling seen and heard
(30:20):
through that just puts acompletely different layer into
that.
And I mean God, cheryl wasthere for a lot of my stuff and
I'm like Cheryl, I am having anexistential crisis today.
Can I please talk to you for aminute?
But there is something aboutthat that you know.
(30:42):
It's like do I exist?
What are these things that I'mfeeling, and how does that look
in real life?
And I just think that there'ssomething so incredibly
important about having someoneelse.
So having someone like you,jenna, go through this with them
can be nothing but helpful.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, one thing I like to do with my clients is do
an inventory right.
We don't just jump in and gostraight to the work.
We just have to assess thedesire of what brought them to
me in the first place.
Let's go there, of course, butI think there's so many layers
to understand before we get tothe end result, Because the end
result may be a lot different orit might be the same, but to
(31:24):
have that foundation right, tounderstand what the legs are
behind, why they came to me inthe first place, right, as
opposed to somebody else also, Imean, anyone who comes to me is
not coming to me just becausethey want to grow their career.
Honestly, it's like that'sdefinitely something they want,
but I am not the coach that'sjust here to do that.
(31:46):
Right, I talk about calm andchaos and you know, and high
productivity amongst all thecrazy that's going on around us.
And to understand what ourfoundations are and, like I said
, the legs, the infrastructureof our lives, is when someone's
(32:06):
able to really look at thatright, like, put it into a Petri
dish and put their microscopeon top and say, oh what is all
of this.
Why is it this way?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Is it working?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
for me.
Do I like this?
How is this benefiting me?
Or is it not Just understandthe foundation and the roots
that infrastructure, get thatsolid and then, when I'm feeling
like I'm on solid ground now, Ican go up.
I can stand on that with my twofeet so strongly and be able to
(32:42):
go wherever I want.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I think what you've described as a courage
sabbatical.
I love that.
How many people in corporateAmerica would love a courage
sabbatical?
Because we're always.
You know, I talk aboutcorporate America because I'm in
corporate America.
This applies to every workinghuman being that is out there.
(33:05):
So my apologies, I don't meanto just focus on one particular
demographic of working America.
But that said, though and Ithink it's ingrained like not in
us just genetically, butculturally, because everybody's,
you know, there are peoplecoming here from different
countries that are going we wantto live the American dream, and
(33:25):
then it really is like you'regoing to work your, you know,
your yas-yas off to get to thatAmerican dream.
Sometimes it's not just like,hey, I've arrived.
Or, you know, for women,there's always this thing around
like oh, you're so strong,you're a mom and you're a
working mom and you know, youknow you have to be the travel
person and you have to take careof this.
(33:47):
And the same thing for dads,right, like they've got to be
the breadwinners and all thatother stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Sometimes we don't want to be that strong.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
We just want to live and exist and be and all of
those things.
And what a gift that youprovide is this courage
sabbatical where you canactually like, take a breath and
say what you know.
What is it?
What are actually my drivers?
Because I think a lot of peoplewalk away going like, oh, I
don't have to make a billiondollars to feel as though I am a
(34:18):
fulfilled human being.
Oh, I don't have to do X, y andZ, oh, I don't have to tackle
the entire universe all bymyself.
I love this, like I love whatyou're doing and I think, even
on a small scale, like you know,listeners out there listen.
You know we're not going toprogram it into saying, buy
(34:39):
Jenna's book, although it soundslike a great idea.
But maybe, you know, just takea moment and think about what's
important to you and you know,kind of, create your own courage
sabbaticals.
You know, take a moment toyourselves.
And I know there are somepeople out there that are
laughing like what minute, whattime?
Who's going to do it?
I get that and I respect thatspace a lot because a lot of
(35:01):
people don't have the time, butwe're only on this planet for a
short period of time, and Ithink it behooves us to kind of
create that space for ourselves,even if it's five minutes a day
, to kind of go okay, like whatmakes me.
You know what do I need?
That will make me whole today,so this is really cool.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I think you brought up something that I love talking
about and its intentionalityaround spending even just a
couple of moments right in a daywhether it be at the start, in
the middle or at the end, or allthree right of being able to do
a check in with yourself.
Right, and it doesn't need totake long.
It can take just 60 secondsright of checking in how am I
(35:45):
showing up right now?
How am I doing?
Am I okay, right, is my bodyokay?
Doing a body check, doing anemotion check, a thinking check.
Right and without judgment.
It's not saying, oh man, Ishould change this or I should
change that, rather justnoticing, when you just take
that moment to notice how am Idoing and then give yourself
(36:07):
some grace and say that's howI'm doing right now and be able
to maybe approach the next thingthat you're meant to show up
for with that conscientiousnessof your presence right of where
you are currently at.
It doesn't take long, not atall.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I was just thinking.
We recently talked to LangRickers and she talked about how
she read a book called theArtist's Way and I think that
gave her some focus.
Right, she would wake up in themorning and, without talking to
anybody, getting a cup ofcoffee none of that she would
(36:49):
sit down and write three pagesworth of words in a journal and
I think that for her, was hercourage sabbatical, she could
get all her feelings out andstuff like that start the day,
that kind of thing.
So we did the help.
Okay, I love the intentionalityof this and I love the you know
what works for you, becausesometimes it could be as simple
(37:12):
as you know.
Having this could sound weird,but having shower thoughts
Everybody's got to take a showerat some point or a bath, you
know, maybe that's the timewhere you focus.
You know, I have friends thathave made it a point to you know
, go and find some uniqueworkout period where they go and
(37:33):
kind of focus on themselves anddo that kind of thing.
My one friend, her you know hertime to herself is her
Starbucks run.
So it all just depends on whereyou want to focus, where you
want to get that calm.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, absolutely, and it only takes you know it.
With that intentionality, youcan do these micro moments right
and the micro moments that thatadd up right.
If you do just a 1% change overtime, that makes a huge impact
Right.
And you know, one of myfavorite analogies is the Grand
(38:11):
Canyon, how it wasn't built in aday, right.
Start off as this tiny littlestream of water just making its
way, persistently, just goingright, and over time persistence
wears down resistance.
Over time it's carving throughmassive stone, massive, massive,
and making this huge crater inthe ground Right.
But it was just because it waspersistent.
(38:31):
This tiny little thing waspersistent and over time, made
this gigantic, huge, amazingchange in this world.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yeah, the Grand Canyon is I'm actually.
Did you read my sweatshirt?
That's what I have on right now.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I did not see that that is too funny.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
So, yes, agreed, and that I mean I don't know.
I just I get I was blown awaywhen I went there to visit and I
mean it's incredible, justincredible, and makes you feel I
mean the saying that it's I wasfull of awe, was I just like
(39:12):
there is no other way to put ityou feel so small, in the most
amazing way possible when justunderstanding and seeing
something so massive andbeautiful.
So anyway, yes, it's funny, I'mwearing it and we're talking
about it, so it's meant to be sowith this we have, we have oh
(39:37):
my gosh, we're almost at time,but we have.
I have two questions for you.
First and foremost, can youtell people a little bit more
about the book, just so that, ifthey're, if they're thinking
about you, know they've lovedthis conversation.
What, what and who would thisbook be targeted towards and
what can they kind of?
What will people expect to seeor what are they?
(40:00):
What would they be hoping forto get from this book when they
go check it out?
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Sure, so it's called Chaos to Calm Five Ways Busy
Parents Can Break Free fromOverwhelm.
And, funny enough, the book isnot just for parents, it is.
You know, there's that word onthe top, on the front of the
cover, because that's what I am.
I am a busy parent and my agentwanted me to have a, you know,
(40:26):
a niche audience to, oh yeah, tomarket towards.
But but the book, right, youboth, you're there, you know.
But the meat and potatoes of thebook is for anyone who feels
overwhelmed, like it's all toomuch, like the they're, they're
(40:46):
not running their lives, theirlives are running them, right,
that they're just reacting toall the possibilities and the to
do lists and the things.
There's just so much to do andyou're just so bogged down by it
all and it's all just too much.
Right, you're again.
Your nervous system is shot,you're feeling overwhelmed or
(41:08):
stressed and don't feel like youhave that space for you or
you've lost touch with yourself.
Right, and how to get it back.
How do I make that time for me?
Like you were saying earlier,cheryl, like there's people
listening, they're going.
I don't have two minutes, right, and I can, I can show you,
right, I tell you how you canfind those two minutes right.
(41:32):
And so the book is five chaptersthat are catered to the five
pillars of calm, the first onebeing efficiency right, how do
we get the things done that wehave to do in a way that
maximizes our natural cycles,utilizing our time, our energy
right and our task efficiency aswell?
(41:53):
Right, we have so much we needto do.
How do we get it done with thislittle to no energy as possible
and maximizing our own time andenergy flows throughout the day
, the week, the month, you knowat cyclical beings that we are?
The second one is habits right,how to create habits that that
support our calm and beingconscientious and aware of the
ones that that don't serve us?
(42:14):
Also, right.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Oh boy, those habits.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yeah yeah, there are so many doom scrolling for the
win.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Yeah, oh, totally For sure.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Habits that don't serve.
And the third one is community.
Right, we have so many peoplearound us that we tend to not
lean on because of the way thatour society has been created.
Right, our capitalistic society, our nuclear families, all of
us in our homes.
You know so many people notliving near families anymore.
(42:46):
Right, we moved away from fromour families, my husband's from
South Africa.
He is no one.
Everyone's an ocean away.
Mine, thankfully, are just, youknow, at the southern part of
the state, but still far away,not close by, and so.
But there are ways to utilizeour community to support our
calm that we tend to not thinkabout Before being communication
(43:11):
.
How do we effectivelycommunicate with those around us
?
Right, to support our calm?
Right, by using listening.
Right that, yes, you're nottalking, but you are
communicating by just listeningand understanding how listening
affects calm and trust andbuilding rapport, so that when
you do have something that youneed to say, you have a
(43:34):
relationship already built there.
Right, so that's just onelittle thing.
And then the last pillar ofcalm, my favorite, that I lean,
you already talked about for amoment.
You're like, nope, we can't gothere because we will spend way
too much time self care and thatit is systemic, it is
sustainable.
It is not, you know, a spa day.
(43:55):
It's not a self care Sunday.
Let's go get our nails done.
And I mean, don't get me wrong,I love myself a good massage,
my nails done, that makes mefeel great.
But that is not systemic deepself care.
That is surface, and so thatthat's what the book is in a
nutshell, and inside there arestories from clients.
(44:17):
There are real actionablethings to do.
There are lists here.
Go do this, check it off thelist.
There's a recap at the end.
Okay, like you're a busy person, you can open up any page
throughout this book and getgoods.
Get the goods straight away.
You don't have to go filteringthrough it.
Where do I find what I'mlooking for?
No, it is all right there, easyto find, easy to read and
(44:40):
hopefully you laugh a little bitalong the way and a little
humor in there.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Oh, I love that.
So it's not like going to oneof those recipe blogs where you
have to read the whole backstoryof how wheat was created before
you can get the recipe.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Oh, God, I jumped jump to recipe.
Jump every time.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Right, I get it.
I know it's an art form and allthe things and they're getting
paid and I understand.
Also, I just really want therecipe and that's where I'm at.
So, um, yeah, no, jenna, thisis really incredible.
So definitely recommend peopleto go check that book out,
(45:20):
because I mean, even just fromour conversation here, I think
there's so much that's going tobe incredibly helpful.
And I love I personally lovejumping into a book.
I love Glenn and Doyle'suntamed.
So I was like I'm so busy, Idon't, I can read a chapter that
was like five pages and thenmaybe put it down for like a
month because I just had so manythings to do, and then I jump
(45:42):
back and I was like, oh, I don't, I'm fine, I'm okay with this.
So it sounds like there's somethings that you know.
That's kind of an approach youcan even take with this, which
is, for someone like me, veryhelpful, and I don't then also
feel like I've failed again withsomething else because I
haven't just finished it coverto cover Though maybe you will,
(46:02):
and that's great Also.
But yeah, I love the idea thatyou're catering also to people
that have real lives and needactionable, easy to access
material right away.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
It's on audible to because for me right.
I, I listened to most of mybooks.
That's how I get my reading inis through listening.
So that it was so important tome that, as soon as the book
came out and audio version cameout as well, because busy
parents, busy people in general,I see you.
I see you, I feel you Listenwhile you're brushing your teeth
(46:38):
in the morning, if that's theright time for you, in the car,
dropping off people commuting,whatever it is, it's that this
book is for you.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
Yeah, now that's amazing.
So we have one last questionbefore we go into sharing where
people can find you also.
But so we have this, as Cherylkind of alluded to earlier the
saying that this is happeningright and so for us, that is
this sort of declaration ofhaving something that that feels
(47:13):
like it's on your heart, thatyou need to create in this world
, to bring into this world to door share, or something that you
just don't want to leave behind, saying that you haven't done
it and it's not a bucket listitem per se.
You know, sometimes travel andthings like that can be a part
of it, but it's really moreabout, you know, the impact that
(47:35):
we want to make on this worldand or how we want to show up
for ourselves and for the peoplearound us.
So if you have anything thatmight be existing on your this
is happening list coming up heresometime in the future,
perpetuating kindness.
(47:57):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yeah, me too, see that.
And an allowance of thecompassion and allowance of
courage, right of recognizingthat I want to, for myself to
live every day withintentionality and pushing my
(48:20):
own limits in a positive way,and to role model that for
anyone I interact with, that youhave the permission.
I'm granting you permission.
Here's your open invitation tolive your most courageous life,
your most integrative life, andone that you feel good about.
(48:42):
Right, that you are happy andsatisfied and feeling like you
are not settling that you were,you were enjoying this existence
that you have because it'syours and yours alone.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
Well, I think we have our quote for the episode,
cheryl, so nailed it All right.
No, but that's truly.
That is beautiful.
Sorry, that would I made a joke.
That's not funny.
It is amazing.
Like that is, that isincredible, and I can get behind
that 100 percent and I onlyhope that you can keep living
that out loud.
And you know, those are thekind of things that spread and
(49:21):
we need more of that in thisworld.
So if we can support you in anyway also, let us know.
But that is amazing and I hopeit just keeps growing.
So thank you so much, jenna.
No, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
I leave it in Cheryl for giving me the platform to
share.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
This has been an absolute joy and we want to
extend the invitation to others.
So, jenna, how do peopleconnect with you?
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Jennahermanscom right .
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
There's my website.
I have a newsletter that I sendout twice a month that just
shares ways to be calm right Tofind calm in the everyday
moments.
There's calm to do's and it'slike here's what you can do
right now.
No right now.
Just do this little thing rightnow to help you in your calm,
in addition to bigger concepts,with my blogs that come out and
(50:11):
all of that.
So, again, it's just aroundspreading and sharing the calm
and because it has a rippleeffect, right, if you're calm,
it has a ripple around everyonearound you.
Right, your energy justperpetuates.
And I'm on Instagram, jenna ZHermans, and LinkedIn, jenna
Hermans.
If you Google, bing, yahoo,whatever search engine, jenna
(50:33):
Hermans, you will find me.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
That's great.
Jenna, thanks so much for yourtime On behalf of Eileen and
myself, thanks everybody onceagain for listening in and
remember you only go once.
Take care everyone Bye.
Hi, this is Jenna Hermans.
When you look back on your life, I hope you live with
intentionality, compassion,courage and calm, because you
only go once.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello, hello, hello everyone.
Welcome to you.
Only Go Once where we explorestories around the limited time
we have on this earth to createa fully layered life.
I'm joined with my fabulousco-host, Eileen Grimes, and
we're here with a great guest,Eileen kick us off.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Thanks, cheryl.
So today we have Jenna Hermans.
Jenna is living proof that youcan create a life of calm within
chaos and overwhelm.
She uses her bachelor's degreein psychology, master's degree
in organizational management andover 15 years of human
resources experience to buildstrong teams both at work and at
(00:56):
home.
Jenna is the co-founder of BeCourageous, a busy mama for
coach and author, as seen inForbes, the Sun, elle, yahoo and
more.
Jenna takes an intentional andinclusive approach to help
people, especially parents,implement tools that put
organization and system aroundtheir busy lives, that infuse
calm and more joy, helping themgo from chaos to calm, which
(01:19):
doubles as the title of herdebut book that launched in May
of 2023.
And I will say that for ourlisteners who can't see it, we
see the book behind Jenna here,so that is very exciting.
But welcome Jenna, we are soglad to have you here with us
tonight.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to talk to youboth today.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, so this is just one of my favorite parts of the
week, I'll be honest, andCheryl and I haven't had a
chance to talk for a littlewhile, so I always feel like I
get an opportunity to just be inher space too, which is
wonderful.
You're not getting rid of me,my friend, anytime soon.
Yeah, so, jenna, I mean one.
(02:04):
Your bachelor's in psychology,master's degree in
organizational management and 15years of human resources that
is a lot of background to beable to put into something like
this.
You know, when you're you, youobviously wrote this book and
have this, did you?
It's interesting.
We've had a lot of authors on.
Did you always know you wantedto write a book?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
No, I never imagined writing a book.
I've always enjoyed writing,but never thought that I would
become an author or wouldpublish a book.
That was the furthest thoughtfrom my mind of something that I
would do in this lifetime.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, and so I mean, like you hear a lot of people
like, oh, it's on my bucket, Ihave to write my book, I have to
write my book.
I certainly was not in thatcamp in any way shape or form,
so it's kind of fun just to seewhat people's journey is into
doing that.
So just tell us a little bitmore.
Tell us about yourself and whatyou're doing and you know what
(02:58):
is it that for you?
You know, obviously, from chaosto calm means something for you
and you know what does thatlook like in your journey from
going to chaos to calm.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Such a good question, Eileen, and so for me, what,
what chaos is, is aninterpretation of our
environment right.
Because we as individuals allinterpret what's going on in our
lives differently.
You know, even when we liveunder the same roof, like my
husband, if I hear the kidsrunning around being loud,
(03:39):
stomping and being all crazylike as long as no one's crying
and screaming I'm like this isgreat, everyone's having a great
time and that is.
That's fine for me and for him,he, his nervous system is on
fire.
He cannot handle that right.
It's too much noise, and evenif it's happy noise, right.
And so the interpretation ofchaos and how it affects our
(04:02):
nervous system is really thething that that captured me when
I recognized that my nervoussystem was bright, and that was
after our fourth child was bornand my, my husband, I, started
our business together.
Be courageous.
That's now.
(04:22):
It's been six and a half years,and thank you.
Yeah, what a what a journey.
And having started thatbusiness when our youngest was
six months old and about, and wehad just moved from Los Angeles
to San Francisco no friends, nofamily, no one here around us.
(04:42):
So we were building a life fromscratch with all these human
beings, with a new business.
My kid, my big kid's biologicalmother was still in the picture
at the time but then actuallywas on her way out, and so it
was.
There was so much transition andin the in the becoming of a, of
(05:03):
a biological mother and whatthat means and what that does to
the body and the psyche and thespirit, right, my, my nervous
system was completely shot.
It was all too much and I washaving frequent and debilitating
panic attacks on the regularand it hit me that this is
(05:24):
unsustainable.
I don't want to do this anymoreand I do have the tools and the
ability to figure out right howto do this differently and how
to own my own calm inside ofmyself so that I could show up
for my family and my businessand myself right as the best
(05:45):
person that I could for me, mykids, my husband, my colleagues,
my employees, the community atlarge, definitely.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I.
I mean just what you're sayingresonates so, so deeply for me
and yeah, I mean I remember my Isay this, I've said this before
, but you know, having my, myfirst child, I didn't know how
to be a human for at least ayear.
It's like there is like this,it's like your entire self
(06:19):
understanding is ripped apartand now you're trying to fit in
this new thing and this wholepersona of what it means to be a
parent and I just I don't knowhow these pieces fit anymore.
I don't know how to do this,let alone, obviously, taking
care of this completelydependent person now on you.
(06:43):
And there's just this wholeentire shift in that and I mean
it's amazing going in and, likeyou said, finding what that comm
is or even just recognizingthat you're not in the space of
comm and knowing what tools andwhat resources that you need to
(07:04):
find or do for yourself selfcare.
But that's a I mean we couldprobably go off onto that one,
right.
Which doesn't mean it's going tothe spa, but you know, I just I
.
It speaks so deeply to me inthat, and I was also one of six,
(07:25):
so growing up with a loudhousehold was very common and
just noise constantly was.
You know, my mom taught musicin the house, so like there
wasn't quiet wasn't a thing forus, right.
But now having neurodivergentchildren also, and what that
means sensorily is, has made merethink a lot of those things
(07:47):
too.
So I appreciate that.
So when you talk about yourcomm, what does that look like
for you and how do you, how doyou get there and what kind of
things are you doing?
Or maybe things you can share?
We don't want to share thewhole book, but just if there's
some things that might behelpful for listeners to just be
able to pick up on.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, absolutely the.
You know the how I define mycalm is well, there's the
physiological sense of calm,right, when you're not in fight,
fight or freeze, when you areat ease, right, you feel safe
and your nervous system isn'tactivated and you feel regulated
right, and so that's kind ofbaseline physiological, human
(08:32):
calmness.
But what I like to talk aboutmore specifically with calm and
my and my calm and my journey tounderstanding and figuring out
what this concept truly, trulyis, is and this 10, when I, when
I talk about this, it tends tobe a little, I don't want to say
, controversial, but it getspeople a little heated sometimes
(08:53):
, because a lot of people think,you know, when someone's
dysregulated, they go calm down,right, and oh, there is no
faster way to get someone moredysregulated than to say those
words, right.
And my response to that isactually I want us to calm up,
(09:18):
and calming up is it's not about, you know, the idea of getting
slow and getting quiet.
Let's sit on, you know, andcrisscross applesauce on our
pillow and meditate.
No, that's not what calm is.
That is a method to gettingcalm for some people, but that's
not what calm actually is rightand the way that I see calm
(09:43):
through the research that I'vedone in my own just personal
experience and coaching ofpeople and the workshops and
speaking that I do is that calmis actually when you're in flow,
when you have energy, and formyself, like I know, I'm calm
when I am thinking creatively,when I feel energized and I am
(10:04):
actually in high energy, rightVersus low and slow and quiet.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, just the be calm piece.
Definitely I can see Cheryl.
I could tell you, if I toldCheryl to be calm, I don't even
live close to her anymore, butshe might boot me halfway across
the world.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
It's, and I've had this conversation so many times.
It's become a running joke withmy manager and it's our running
joke that we say so.
My manager and work and I wereboth Italian Americans and we
say that there's a trigger wordthat if you tell anybody, relax
you better run is what shouldhappen.
Right, and it's funny because Ihear what you're saying,
(10:53):
because we talked about thebeginning, about how you have
kids and if they're like highenergy and they're doing stuff
and that's fun, and yourhusband's like no, thank you,
this is too loud.
That's kind of how I operate inmy space here.
My husband voraciously in lovewith music, of all sorts of
things.
I like music.
(11:13):
I don't like music at certaindecibels it unnerves me to no
end.
There are times where I can beperfectly quiet, or if I'm
surrounded by the dialogue in amovie, I'm all set right.
That to me is like my perfectamount of loud.
(11:33):
His is more like Viking metal,heavy metal, all the different
metals, any metals that youcould explain.
He loves it.
And then there's like progmusic and there's all that stuff
and that to me is like there'sabout five minutes for me where
that's calm and then after thatI'm like I can't do it anymore,
(11:55):
like I need to go away.
So it's very interesting to hearyour concept of calming up,
because I would probably needcoaching from you on how to do
that, because I don't know howthat works Exactly, and I love
it that.
So I was.
While you two were chatting, Iwas looking up your website, be
(12:19):
Courageous, which is yourcompany, and I love that.
You know, one of your taglineshere is our right to exist,
right, but it goes beyond.
That is what you said, and youhave a goal to activate one
billion moments of courage.
So what does that mean to youexactly?
Because everybody has differentmodes of courage.
Like Eileen goes paraglidingyou know I did this podcast
(12:44):
there's levels, so I'd love tohear what your definition of
that is and what that goalentails.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, and I love that you talked about the spectrum,
right, because courage for you,eileen, is different than
courage for you, cheryl, andwhich is probably different
courage for me, right, based onour backgrounds and our genetics
and how we were raised, ourcultures and all these different
contextual things that make upthe human that we are.
(13:13):
And so courage is being able togo past that comfort zone area,
right Of saying I know thatthis is what's best.
And getting out of your own way, cause, generally it's.
We have filters, uprightfilters, whether they're it's
usually in our thinking, rightThings, censorship that gets in
the way that says no, you can'tdo that because of some obscure,
(13:36):
random voice in your headsaying I can't or I shouldn't or
something as bad is going tohappen.
When it's you know about havinga courageous conversation, right
, it could be just words you areactually okay, right, and being
able to go and say I'm going togo outside my comfort zone, I
(13:56):
am okay, or maybe I even won'tbe, but I'm going to go and do
this thing that is, in my owndefinitions, right Of this is a
courageous thing that I'm goingto do because this is my own
choice, right, this is, this iscoming from my background and my
(14:17):
history and my context as well.
Right Cause, when we talk aboutin the workplace, when you have
psychological safety in yourworkplace, you're more likely to
be courageous and, to you know,push on a boundary or offer up
a creative idea than if youdon't have that safety.
And so the context really isimportant when talking about
(14:41):
courage in the workplace and aswell as in personal life as well
.
I mean anywhere, right, but thedefinition is different for
every person of what couragemeans to them.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Interesting.
Well, it's so funny too because, gerald, as you say, some of
this too, like yes, I wentparagliding.
However, to me, that's notcourageous.
Like I right, like that's not,I know, but that's not.
That's not how I def, how Idefine it.
Right, that's I, like I'm, youknow, I like doing crazy stuff
(15:16):
like that.
That's just for me.
Like physical things are alwaysreally fun for me to push
myself further.
And what I find very courageous,though, is doing for me, is
doing things that, like I meanstanding up for myself feels
courageous.
Like that is from someone whohas a hard time and has had a
hard time historically and hasworked on standing up and
(15:39):
speaking for myself and speakingfor others.
When I see that there arethings that are not right in the
way that we exist in this world, in a way, an organization
might be handling specificsituations around things.
Like, to me that's courageous.
And those are the acts where Ifeel that I'm pushing forward on
(16:02):
something that touches myvalues in a way that if I, if I
don't, if I don't act or if Idon't say or if I don't do
something in those, then I'mgoing against who I am and I
think that that act in and ofitself is courageous, so I'm
just crazy outside of that.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
No, and you know, I really resonate with that,
eileen, because I also am kindof very physical, right, I've
done trathlons and marathons andin all of these, and what is it
?
I've gone skydiving a bunch oftimes and like, for me, that's,
that's not.
I never felt like that wassomething courageous, that I was
doing right, I'm quitting a job, when I've when I've quit jobs
(16:45):
historically and gone into theunknown, for me that that's not
a courageous act.
There's a lot of trust in thatand in the universe and that I
can do this, it's fine.
It's hard, but I can do hardthings.
But going and, like you said,standing up for myself or I'm a
people pleaser, right, or ratherI'm a recovering people pleaser
, saying no, yeah, right, likesaying no to somebody, that is
(17:11):
courageous for me and holding upmy boundaries and holding on to
my yeses and my no's.
That when I step into that,that is a place where I need to
hope to get into my courage andsay what's the courage needed
here in this scenario?
Right, and to flex that couragemuscle of I need to do what's
the greatest good for me, forthem, you know, and that usually
(17:35):
has to do with my boundaries.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Oh boundaries.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I just you're completely correct and I'd feel
the same way.
So, yeah, because like, oh, Idon't need boundaries, I just.
Then everyone can do what theyneed and they feel happy.
Right, and that's great for me,and I've learned that over time
and it's still something thatI'm working on, certainly, so
that that resonates prettydeeply for me.
What about you, cheryl?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Cheryl, wow, okay.
So I think because I am highlyintroverted, every stretch
outside my comfort zone is a bigstep towards being somewhat
(18:27):
courageous.
I do love the quote that'sattributed to Eleanor Roosevelt
about doing something thatscares you.
She says at least once a day.
I go by once a year and I'mhappy, like that's way outside
my comfort zone, I'm good.
This year it was the podcastand writing a book and getting a
(18:49):
book published.
Those are the things that were.
You know, they were kind of outthere in the ether.
Eileen is the person that helpsme jump over my comfort zone
line a lot of times becauseshe'll go come on, we can do
this, this is happening, we'retotally going to do this and
this is happening.
Okay, you know she's stilltrying to convince me that at
(19:11):
some point we're going to dothis podcast with video and I'm
not there yet.
So baby steps For me.
I see it in other people.
Eileen and I co-founded awomen's group at our
organization a while ago andit's been fun watching, but fun
(19:31):
and also, you know, internallyyou pitter patter your heart
pitter patters for them.
But we've had a lot of womenthat were like I never thought I
could do something like thatand it's way outside their
comfort zones.
But we see that spark in themthat we kind of go, yeah, you
can do it and I'll go like we'llbe here.
You know we'll be here with thenets and all the things, but
(19:52):
you know we're here.
I too am a people pleaser.
You know there's a saying and Idon't know who said it, but you
know, if you people who try toplease their parents grow up to
be people pleasers, right,because you're just keep on
going, that that piece right.
(20:12):
And I see that in a lot of likemy friends and I see it because
we all don't want to offend oneanother.
Now I see that in mostly myfemale friends.
My male friends are like, yeah,we're totally doing this and
it's cool, like that to them isnot a level of courage.
That to them, is just whywouldn't I do that?
I see that my husband sometimes.
(20:34):
So I'll do something and I'mlike, and he just goes, what?
What are you?
What's the noise?
Why are you holding on to theside of the car for dear life?
Like this is normal stuff.
So it's.
It's interesting the concept ofthis and I'm sure, jenna, from
your perspective, to for foryour years and human resources.
(20:54):
I'm sure your level ofcourageousness, that button has
been pushed many, many timesright, because I admire people
and human resources, because thelevel of calm they have to
exhibit, with all the crazy thatpeople do it is like a true
(21:15):
testament of why they're in theroles that they are.
I don't know where I was goingwith this, but what I'm saying
is I think that with yourexperience and with all of your,
your educational background,this book just seems like a
natural transition, right, ifyou will, to get into this and
(21:39):
especially since, now thatyou're, you know,
congratulations you're now amulti type in it success story,
because you've got the book,you've got your own business.
You are a mother for hyphen it,hyphen it, hyphen it.
Right.
Where do you think?
Where do you draw your courage?
(22:01):
You know from from where do youdraw your own personal courage?
How does that work for you?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Wow, I've never been asked that before and I really
appreciate that question.
Thank you for asking it.
I would say it depends on thecontext of where a meeting
deflects that courage muscle.
And sometimes in my head andimmediately went to my husband
and kids, is where I tend topull a lot of that strength of
(22:34):
being a role model for mychildren, being the best partner
that I can for my, for mypartner, because he's not only
my partner in life but he's mybusiness partner.
We founded be courageoustogether and he inspires me to
live courageously every day ashe, as he does, and I mean his
story is is an incredible one aswell.
(22:54):
But this podcast not about him,that's about me.
That's right.
And so where I draw the courage, I'd say it's.
It's something that I've beenflexing for a long time and it
continues to evolve as I get toknow myself better and learn
(23:17):
about my own being right.
As I evolve, I notice, oh,there's this new evolution of me
and I am pretty stoked aboutthat.
Right, and I want to continueseeing where it goes.
And the only way that I cancontinue to be on this path of
evolution is by being courageousand by by committing to myself
(23:40):
that I am.
I want to see what I'm capableof and how I can be the best
version of myself, and all ofthe ways, and that continued
commitment to myself and to myfamily and community is what
gives me the strength to keepflexing that courage muscle and
(24:03):
to keep showing up as beingcourageous and every decision
that I make, because it is, it's, it's micro moments, it's not
these big overarching, you know,things that we think of that
it's like oh, that was such acourageous choice to make a
courageous ask, you know to, I'mgoing to go to the moon?
No, that, that guess, that couldbe courageous, sure, but that's
not.
You know that it's in thesemicro moments of making choices
(24:28):
that are integrates andintentional and thoughtful of
what is, what is the, what arethe repercussions of that choice
.
Right, it could be as simple aswhat I'm in what am I going to
make for dinner?
Or how am I going to respond tomy kids when they ask me a big
question?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Or even a small one, though all of those little
things are actually courageouswhen I come at it with
intentionality and from a placeof desiring to give my best in
every moment.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
I really like what you were saying about the muscle
right of it and I'm curious asto if you would agree with this
statement from what it soundslike, right.
Well, there's two statements.
One is that courage can bebuilt over time.
Right, you can sort of buildthat piece up.
(25:28):
Maybe we'll pause for a secondjust to make sure we get Jenna
back.
There we go.
That was totally fine, okay,good.
Yeah, so courage can be builtover time, and our definition of
(25:50):
courage can change over time.
You know, as life throwsparenting into the mix, as life
brings in the passing of lovedones, as heartache becomes a
thing, as world events show usdifferent ways of the existence
of humanity, and you know,there's so many pieces that then
(26:14):
inform us into what couragereally means for you now, in
this moment, in this time ofyour life.
Would you agree that that'strue for both of those things?
Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I would say that I believe that it's the expression
of courage that evolves overtime, right, that as we continue
our becoming right, thatevolution, that our relationship
with courage evolves as wellwhen we're intentional about it,
when we're thinking, when weactually have a relationship
(26:54):
with it, that it evolves as wedo, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yeah, and I think for me at least, you know really
understanding what that meansfor me started with a courageous
act which was being reflectiveenough of myself, or taking a
second to say, oh shit, who am I, where am I coming from?
(27:22):
What does that mean in my life?
Like really just taking themoment to turn inward.
For me was courageous, becausegetting a peek, sometimes behind
the curtain, can be aterrifying thing, to have to
expose yourself and to reallylook inward and understand who
(27:42):
we are.
I mean, there was a piece of myjourney that was a part of that
and very difficult to gothrough.
I assume you work with peoplewho you know to do that kind of
work.
What does that look like whenyou're starting some of this
work with them?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
You know, there's a lot of vulnerability that ends
up being shared right,especially in this work, when
you're talking about courage andyou're helping someone navigate
the complexities of theirexistence, because it's not ever
just oh, let's talk about thisone component, even if that's
(28:23):
where someone started, right,they're like I'm going to come
in and we're just going to talkabout how I can elevate in my
career, but it's never justabout that.
It is so much more.
And so we end up going throughso many other elements of life
values and priorities,backgrounds, ambitions and goals
, and true deep desires andtrauma, right of what someone
(28:50):
has gone through that's led themto this point, that has then
guided them to believe that theywant this next thing.
And they say, guided them tobelieve they want it, because a
lot of it is messaging that wehave received from society, from
our families of origin, fromschool and teachers you know you
must be ambitious and you mustclimb the corporate ladder and
(29:14):
you must have children, and youknow you must, you must, you
must.
And, ultimately, when we areclear and with ourselves and
have that integrity and theopenness and the freedom and
courage to listen to what's deepinside of ourselves that we've
(29:34):
been pushing down and notallowing ourselves to think
about, let alone believe, thatthere's usually so much more
that comes from our timetogether that influences every
part of life, not just thetrajectory of their career.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Absolutely, yeah, I mean, and it's incredible to
what having doing thatindividually, but then also when
you're able to do that incommunity or in a shared space
with someone else, like there issomething, I just think there's
something magical that happenswhen one you're going through
that, but then also being seenand feeling seen and heard
(30:20):
through that just puts acompletely different layer into
that.
And I mean God, cheryl wasthere for a lot of my stuff and
I'm like Cheryl, I am having anexistential crisis today.
Can I please talk to you for aminute?
But there is something aboutthat that you know.
(30:42):
It's like do I exist?
What are these things that I'mfeeling, and how does that look
in real life?
And I just think that there'ssomething so incredibly
important about having someoneelse.
So having someone like you,jenna, go through this with them
can be nothing but helpful.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, one thing I like to do with my clients is do
an inventory right.
We don't just jump in and gostraight to the work.
We just have to assess thedesire of what brought them to
me in the first place.
Let's go there, of course, butI think there's so many layers
to understand before we get tothe end result, Because the end
result may be a lot different orit might be the same, but to
(31:24):
have that foundation right, tounderstand what the legs are
behind, why they came to me inthe first place, right, as
opposed to somebody else also, Imean, anyone who comes to me is
not coming to me just becausethey want to grow their career.
Honestly, it's like that'sdefinitely something they want,
but I am not the coach that'sjust here to do that.
(31:46):
Right, I talk about calm andchaos and you know, and high
productivity amongst all thecrazy that's going on around us.
And to understand what ourfoundations are and, like I said
, the legs, the infrastructureof our lives, is when someone's
(32:06):
able to really look at thatright, like, put it into a Petri
dish and put their microscopeon top and say, oh what is all
of this.
Why is it this way?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Is it working?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
for me.
Do I like this?
How is this benefiting me?
Or is it not Just understandthe foundation and the roots
that infrastructure, get thatsolid and then, when I'm feeling
like I'm on solid ground now, Ican go up.
I can stand on that with my twofeet so strongly and be able to
(32:42):
go wherever I want.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I think what you've described as a courage
sabbatical.
I love that.
How many people in corporateAmerica would love a courage
sabbatical?
Because we're always.
You know, I talk aboutcorporate America because I'm in
corporate America.
This applies to every workinghuman being that is out there.
(33:05):
So my apologies, I don't meanto just focus on one particular
demographic of working America.
But that said, though and Ithink it's ingrained like not in
us just genetically, butculturally, because everybody's,
you know, there are peoplecoming here from different
countries that are going we wantto live the American dream, and
(33:25):
then it really is like you'regoing to work your, you know,
your yas-yas off to get to thatAmerican dream.
Sometimes it's not just like,hey, I've arrived.
Or, you know, for women,there's always this thing around
like oh, you're so strong,you're a mom and you're a
working mom and you know, youknow you have to be the travel
person and you have to take careof this.
(33:47):
And the same thing for dads,right, like they've got to be
the breadwinners and all thatother stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Sometimes we don't want to be that strong.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
We just want to live and exist and be and all of
those things.
And what a gift that youprovide is this courage
sabbatical where you canactually like, take a breath and
say what you know.
What is it?
What are actually my drivers?
Because I think a lot of peoplewalk away going like, oh, I
don't have to make a billiondollars to feel as though I am a
(34:18):
fulfilled human being.
Oh, I don't have to do X, y andZ, oh, I don't have to tackle
the entire universe all bymyself.
I love this, like I love whatyou're doing and I think, even
on a small scale, like you know,listeners out there listen.
You know we're not going toprogram it into saying, buy
(34:39):
Jenna's book, although it soundslike a great idea.
But maybe, you know, just takea moment and think about what's
important to you and you know,kind of, create your own courage
sabbaticals.
You know, take a moment toyourselves.
And I know there are somepeople out there that are
laughing like what minute, whattime?
Who's going to do it?
I get that and I respect thatspace a lot because a lot of
(35:01):
people don't have the time, butwe're only on this planet for a
short period of time, and Ithink it behooves us to kind of
create that space for ourselves,even if it's five minutes a day
, to kind of go okay, like whatmakes me.
You know what do I need?
That will make me whole today,so this is really cool.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I think you brought up something that I love talking
about and its intentionalityaround spending even just a
couple of moments right in a daywhether it be at the start, in
the middle or at the end, or allthree right of being able to do
a check in with yourself.
Right, and it doesn't need totake long.
It can take just 60 secondsright of checking in how am I
(35:45):
showing up right now?
How am I doing?
Am I okay, right, is my bodyokay?
Doing a body check, doing anemotion check, a thinking check.
Right and without judgment.
It's not saying, oh man, Ishould change this or I should
change that, rather justnoticing, when you just take
that moment to notice how am Idoing and then give yourself
(36:07):
some grace and say that's howI'm doing right now and be able
to maybe approach the next thingthat you're meant to show up
for with that conscientiousnessof your presence right of where
you are currently at.
It doesn't take long, not atall.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I was just thinking.
We recently talked to LangRickers and she talked about how
she read a book called theArtist's Way and I think that
gave her some focus.
Right, she would wake up in themorning and, without talking to
anybody, getting a cup ofcoffee none of that she would
(36:49):
sit down and write three pagesworth of words in a journal and
I think that for her, was hercourage sabbatical, she could
get all her feelings out andstuff like that start the day,
that kind of thing.
So we did the help.
Okay, I love the intentionalityof this and I love the you know
what works for you, becausesometimes it could be as simple
(37:12):
as you know.
Having this could sound weird,but having shower thoughts
Everybody's got to take a showerat some point or a bath, you
know, maybe that's the timewhere you focus.
You know, I have friends thathave made it a point to you know
, go and find some uniqueworkout period where they go and
(37:33):
kind of focus on themselves anddo that kind of thing.
My one friend, her you know hertime to herself is her
Starbucks run.
So it all just depends on whereyou want to focus, where you
want to get that calm.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, absolutely, and it only takes you know it.
With that intentionality, youcan do these micro moments right
and the micro moments that thatadd up right.
If you do just a 1% change overtime, that makes a huge impact
Right.
And you know, one of myfavorite analogies is the Grand
(38:11):
Canyon, how it wasn't built in aday, right.
Start off as this tiny littlestream of water just making its
way, persistently, just goingright, and over time persistence
wears down resistance.
Over time it's carving throughmassive stone, massive, massive,
and making this huge crater inthe ground Right.
But it was just because it waspersistent.
(38:31):
This tiny little thing waspersistent and over time, made
this gigantic, huge, amazingchange in this world.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yeah, the Grand Canyon is I'm actually.
Did you read my sweatshirt?
That's what I have on right now.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I did not see that that is too funny.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
So, yes, agreed, and that I mean I don't know.
I just I get I was blown awaywhen I went there to visit and I
mean it's incredible, justincredible, and makes you feel I
mean the saying that it's I wasfull of awe, was I just like
(39:12):
there is no other way to put ityou feel so small, in the most
amazing way possible when justunderstanding and seeing
something so massive andbeautiful.
So anyway, yes, it's funny, I'mwearing it and we're talking
about it, so it's meant to be sowith this we have, we have oh
(39:37):
my gosh, we're almost at time,but we have.
I have two questions for you.
First and foremost, can youtell people a little bit more
about the book, just so that, ifthey're, if they're thinking
about you, know they've lovedthis conversation.
What, what and who would thisbook be targeted towards and
what can they kind of?
What will people expect to seeor what are they?
(40:00):
What would they be hoping forto get from this book when they
go check it out?
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Sure, so it's called Chaos to Calm Five Ways Busy
Parents Can Break Free fromOverwhelm.
And, funny enough, the book isnot just for parents, it is.
You know, there's that word onthe top, on the front of the
cover, because that's what I am.
I am a busy parent and my agentwanted me to have a, you know,
(40:26):
a niche audience to, oh yeah, tomarket towards.
But but the book, right, youboth, you're there, you know.
But the meat and potatoes of thebook is for anyone who feels
overwhelmed, like it's all toomuch, like the they're, they're
(40:46):
not running their lives, theirlives are running them, right,
that they're just reacting toall the possibilities and the to
do lists and the things.
There's just so much to do andyou're just so bogged down by it
all and it's all just too much.
Right, you're again.
Your nervous system is shot,you're feeling overwhelmed or
(41:08):
stressed and don't feel like youhave that space for you or
you've lost touch with yourself.
Right, and how to get it back.
How do I make that time for me?
Like you were saying earlier,cheryl, like there's people
listening, they're going.
I don't have two minutes, right, and I can, I can show you,
right, I tell you how you canfind those two minutes right.
(41:32):
And so the book is five chaptersthat are catered to the five
pillars of calm, the first onebeing efficiency right, how do
we get the things done that wehave to do in a way that
maximizes our natural cycles,utilizing our time, our energy
right and our task efficiency aswell?
(41:53):
Right, we have so much we needto do.
How do we get it done with thislittle to no energy as possible
and maximizing our own time andenergy flows throughout the day
, the week, the month, you knowat cyclical beings that we are?
The second one is habits right,how to create habits that that
support our calm and beingconscientious and aware of the
ones that that don't serve us?
(42:14):
Also, right.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Oh boy, those habits.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yeah yeah, there are so many doom scrolling for the
win.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Yeah, oh, totally For sure.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Habits that don't serve.
And the third one is community.
Right, we have so many peoplearound us that we tend to not
lean on because of the way thatour society has been created.
Right, our capitalistic society, our nuclear families, all of
us in our homes.
You know so many people notliving near families anymore.
(42:46):
Right, we moved away from fromour families, my husband's from
South Africa.
He is no one.
Everyone's an ocean away.
Mine, thankfully, are just, youknow, at the southern part of
the state, but still far away,not close by, and so.
But there are ways to utilizeour community to support our
calm that we tend to not thinkabout Before being communication
(43:11):
.
How do we effectivelycommunicate with those around us
?
Right, to support our calm?
Right, by using listening.
Right that, yes, you're nottalking, but you are
communicating by just listeningand understanding how listening
affects calm and trust andbuilding rapport, so that when
you do have something that youneed to say, you have a
(43:34):
relationship already built there.
Right, so that's just onelittle thing.
And then the last pillar ofcalm, my favorite, that I lean,
you already talked about for amoment.
You're like, nope, we can't gothere because we will spend way
too much time self care and thatit is systemic, it is
sustainable.
It is not, you know, a spa day.
(43:55):
It's not a self care Sunday.
Let's go get our nails done.
And I mean, don't get me wrong,I love myself a good massage,
my nails done, that makes mefeel great.
But that is not systemic deepself care.
That is surface, and so thatthat's what the book is in a
nutshell, and inside there arestories from clients.
(44:17):
There are real actionablethings to do.
There are lists here.
Go do this, check it off thelist.
There's a recap at the end.
Okay, like you're a busy person, you can open up any page
throughout this book and getgoods.
Get the goods straight away.
You don't have to go filteringthrough it.
Where do I find what I'mlooking for?
No, it is all right there, easyto find, easy to read and
(44:40):
hopefully you laugh a little bitalong the way and a little
humor in there.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Oh, I love that.
So it's not like going to oneof those recipe blogs where you
have to read the whole backstoryof how wheat was created before
you can get the recipe.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Oh, God, I jumped jump to recipe.
Jump every time.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Right, I get it.
I know it's an art form and allthe things and they're getting
paid and I understand.
Also, I just really want therecipe and that's where I'm at.
So, um, yeah, no, jenna, thisis really incredible.
So definitely recommend peopleto go check that book out,
(45:20):
because I mean, even just fromour conversation here, I think
there's so much that's going tobe incredibly helpful.
And I love I personally lovejumping into a book.
I love Glenn and Doyle'suntamed.
So I was like I'm so busy, Idon't, I can read a chapter that
was like five pages and thenmaybe put it down for like a
month because I just had so manythings to do, and then I jump
(45:42):
back and I was like, oh, I don't, I'm fine, I'm okay with this.
So it sounds like there's somethings that you know.
That's kind of an approach youcan even take with this, which
is, for someone like me, veryhelpful, and I don't then also
feel like I've failed again withsomething else because I
haven't just finished it coverto cover Though maybe you will,
(46:02):
and that's great Also.
But yeah, I love the idea thatyou're catering also to people
that have real lives and needactionable, easy to access
material right away.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
It's on audible to because for me right.
I, I listened to most of mybooks.
That's how I get my reading inis through listening.
So that it was so important tome that, as soon as the book
came out and audio version cameout as well, because busy
parents, busy people in general,I see you.
I see you, I feel you Listenwhile you're brushing your teeth
(46:38):
in the morning, if that's theright time for you, in the car,
dropping off people commuting,whatever it is, it's that this
book is for you.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
Yeah, now that's amazing.
So we have one last questionbefore we go into sharing where
people can find you also.
But so we have this, as Cherylkind of alluded to earlier the
saying that this is happeningright and so for us, that is
this sort of declaration ofhaving something that that feels
(47:13):
like it's on your heart, thatyou need to create in this world
, to bring into this world to door share, or something that you
just don't want to leave behind, saying that you haven't done
it and it's not a bucket listitem per se.
You know, sometimes travel andthings like that can be a part
of it, but it's really moreabout, you know, the impact that
(47:35):
we want to make on this worldand or how we want to show up
for ourselves and for the peoplearound us.
So if you have anything thatmight be existing on your this
is happening list coming up heresometime in the future,
perpetuating kindness.
(47:57):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yeah, me too, see that.
And an allowance of thecompassion and allowance of
courage, right of recognizingthat I want to, for myself to
live every day withintentionality and pushing my
(48:20):
own limits in a positive way,and to role model that for
anyone I interact with, that youhave the permission.
I'm granting you permission.
Here's your open invitation tolive your most courageous life,
your most integrative life, andone that you feel good about.
(48:42):
Right, that you are happy andsatisfied and feeling like you
are not settling that you were,you were enjoying this existence
that you have because it'syours and yours alone.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
Well, I think we have our quote for the episode,
cheryl, so nailed it All right.
No, but that's truly.
That is beautiful.
Sorry, that would I made a joke.
That's not funny.
It is amazing.
Like that is, that isincredible, and I can get behind
that 100 percent and I onlyhope that you can keep living
that out loud.
And you know, those are thekind of things that spread and
(49:21):
we need more of that in thisworld.
So if we can support you in anyway also, let us know.
But that is amazing and I hopeit just keeps growing.
So thank you so much, jenna.
No, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
I leave it in Cheryl for giving me the platform to
share.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
This has been an absolute joy and we want to
extend the invitation to others.
So, jenna, how do peopleconnect with you?
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Jennahermanscom right .
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
There's my website.
I have a newsletter that I sendout twice a month that just
shares ways to be calm right Tofind calm in the everyday
moments.
There's calm to do's and it'slike here's what you can do
right now.
No right now.
Just do this little thing rightnow to help you in your calm,
in addition to bigger concepts,with my blogs that come out and
(50:11):
all of that.
So, again, it's just aroundspreading and sharing the calm
and because it has a rippleeffect, right, if you're calm,
it has a ripple around everyonearound you.
Right, your energy justperpetuates.
And I'm on Instagram, jenna ZHermans, and LinkedIn, jenna
Hermans.
If you Google, bing, yahoo,whatever search engine, jenna
(50:33):
Hermans, you will find me.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
That's great.
Jenna, thanks so much for yourtime On behalf of Eileen and
myself, thanks everybody onceagain for listening in and
remember you only go once.
Take care everyone Bye.
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