February 20, 2024 • 56 mins
Have you ever stood at the crossroads of life, pondering the direction your financial future should take? Our latest guest, the visionary DeWayne Gordon, has not only stood at such a juncture but has paved a new path entirely with his innovative venture, 40 AM Capital. From his modest beginnings to civil service and beyond, DeWayne's journey is a testament to the power of resilience and the importance of aligning one's career with personal passions. As we explore this rich narrative, you'll find yourself inspired by DeWayne's reflective moment in 2019 that birthed a financial tool aimed at empowering individuals towards fiscal independence.
It's not every day that you encounter a financial planning tool that can revolutionize the way you perceive money and time. DeWayne unveils an Excel marvel that is more than just a budget tracker; it's a roadmap to financial independence, complete with scenario-based forecasting and an insightful financial independence spectrum. This conversation takes us through the nuanced challenges and triumphs within the black community's pursuit of financial autonomy, breaking down persistent myths about renting versus owning, and addressing the undercurrents of financial trauma. It's a tapestry of fiscal education interwoven with authentic stories of overcoming systemic barriers to success.
Lastly, we're whisked away on an adventure through the Pacific Northwest as DeWayne shares his zeal for hiking and photography, offering a much-needed reminder that life's broader escapades are integral to our well-being. Discover 'DeWayne math,' a unique philosophy on time management that empowers one to maximize every moment, and learn how self-care is not just essential for our own prosperity but crucial in our ability to mentor and uplift others. This episode is not merely a discussion; it's an invitation to redefine your relationship with time and money, to embrace life's adventures, and to chart a course towards living by design. Join us, and let's journey together through DeWayne Gordon's multifaceted narrative of growth, balance, and the pursuit of one's true calling.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Dwayne Gordon .
I hope, when you look back atyour life, you live life by
design, because you're only goldonce.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
Thank you everybody for comingtonight.
We are, I'm so excited.
I don't know, I've had a roughweek.
I'll be honest.
I'm just going to level set thegroup here tonight, but as kind
of soon as I sign on and I seeCheryl's face and Dwayne, it's
been too long.
But I am so excited to be heretonight and have this
(00:35):
conversation.
We are kicking off anotherepisode of you Only Go Once.
I'm Aileen Grimes.
I'm here with my amazing,wonderful friend and co-host,
cheryl Contafio, and Cheryl isgoing to introduce our guest
tonight.
Cheryl, off to you.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Thanks, aileen.
They say life is a journey, andDwayne has taken that adage to
heart.
A self-proclaimed sporadicentrepreneur, dwayne Gordon has
dabbled in a couple of ventureshere and there, each one adding
a unique thread to the tapestryof his experience.
Currently, dwayne is in theprocess of launching his most
exciting venture, 40 AM Capital,which is a financial services
(01:13):
business that is geared towardschanging the way people of color
view and engage with theirpersonal finances.
When the entrepreneurial spirittakes a breather, dwayne dons
the hat of a mentor, guidingothers through the wilderness of
their lives and ambitions.
His wisdom, gleaned from thesuccesses and stumbles of his
own life experiences, is avaluable compass for those
(01:33):
seeking to navigate the twistsand turns of life.
But wait, there's more.
In a surprising turn of events,dwayne found himself in the
world of civil service, provingthat sometimes the most
unplanned paths can lead to themost fulfilling destinations.
Dwayne brings his unique blendof creativity, problem solving
and a touch of calmness to theworld of bureaucracy,
(01:54):
transforming the city ofPhiladelphia one project at a
time.
This year, dwayne is gearing upto getting back to hiking.
Unintended hiking is the onething that allows him to unwind,
unplug, exhale and fully enjoythe outdoors.
Along with hiking, dwayne willlook to get back to his other
passion, which is photography ofnature.
Everybody, please, welcomeDwayne.
(02:16):
Gordon Dwayne, we're so happyto have you here.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, I'm happy to be here, so I'm looking forward to
this conversation.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Oh, my goodness.
So disclosure for our audienceis that Dwayne, Eileen and I all
used to work together and itwas a blast.
Like we always had fun.
You know, Dwayne got toexperience my driving once when
we went to visit the college.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, so often for you, that was a nightmare.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I still talk about that.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I'm sure you do.
Yeah, the poor man.
So also disclosure, dwayne islike six foot 100 and for people
that are my height, which islike five foot four and a good
day, he's very tall.
So the poor man got to my carand his knees were up around his
ears so, and you know, he hadto deal with my driving on top
of that.
So it was just, it was anexperience.
(03:11):
It was an experience, but wereconnected through a mutual
friend and he kind of sharedwith us that you were going to
put together this new venturethat we're so excited to talk
about.
So can you give us a littlemore about 40 am capital, where
the whole idea came from andwhere it's going?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
This all started back in 2019.
In 2019.
So the end of every year, Inormally just spend time
reflecting on how did I do thatyear Right?
So look at professionally,personally and even financially.
And so when I got to thefinancial part, it was more
(03:54):
about you know, did I reach mygoals?
Did I really help anyonefinancially, whether it's with
my own money or helping themthink through their own
financial issues?
And I didn't.
I missed the target Right.
And so once in 2020, I thoughtlike, how can I help people?
Right, and I'm not rich, butI'm financially comfortable.
(04:19):
And so I want to see how Icould leverage my money and help
those around me.
And so I was like, well, let mejust give people loans, you
know.
And so the idea popped into myhead.
You know, I shared with acouple of friends.
They're like are you crazy?
You never get your money back,you know.
(04:39):
And so I just felt otherwise,and so I just figured that if I
put some rules around it and soforth, you know it could work.
This was before the pandemic,right.
Yeah, you know so, going toJanuary, I reached out, you know
, to a couple of friends, a fewfamily members, and told them
(04:59):
what I was looking to do.
And no takers crickets right,and so it's like well, you know,
maybe that wasn't a dumb idea.
And about two days later I had acousin reach out and say, hey,
were you serious about that?
Like, yeah, long story short,gave her a loan and it took off,
right.
And I started getting the textmessages and the phone calls and
(05:22):
even though the folks whoinitially reached out, they are
financially, you know, in abetter situation than a lot of
other people, it was just thelife stuff that happens, right,
you know, two flat tire, theleaking roof, you know whatever
it might be where they didn'twant to dip into emergency funds
(05:42):
or whatever it might be, right.
So that took off and so I keptit simple Flat interest rate.
You know 12 months, 18 months.
You know I did a loan like thesmallest loan is like $500 up to
$10,000.
And what made, what made thewhole thing unique was I create
the term so that it made it easyfor people to repay me, versus
(06:02):
saying, hey, something happened,I can't pay you back.
So what I did was I said, okay,I'm not going to tell you how
much to pay me back every month.
Right, you have a 12 month or18 month loan.
You figure it out right,because you know your budget
better than I do.
So you can use the entire youknow timeframe of the loan.
I didn't set a date for themeither, right?
(06:23):
So if I say, cheryl, you know,pay me back 300 on the first of
every month, well, you probablyhave a mortgage, your car
payments, your insurance and soforth, right, but somebody's not
going to get paid, right?
So I didn't want it to be me,so I told Nick and figured that
out.
I also gave them, like you know, these opportunities of grace
(06:44):
where, if something comes up,doesn't matter what it is, just
give the heads up.
I'm not going to give you alate fee or penalize you or
anything.
Just tell me ahead of time,right.
And so the good thing aboutthat was was that when people
took it at the end of thatparticular you know option, if
they said, hey, I need to missJanuary's payment, that's fine.
(07:04):
I didn't tell them.
You know how the payments weregoing to stack up on them.
They automatically said I'lldouble up with my payments the
following month, and they alldid, right.
So, all of that being said, itstarted to work.
I didn't realize how much workit would be Right, because I had
all these requests coming inand everything was rolling and
so I started with one system totrack it and it worked for me.
(07:27):
But my shorter other people arelike what are you doing?
This doesn't make any sense.
I'm like, yeah, you're right.
So go back in and and refining,and refining to where I have a
full flex system now that Idesigned in Excel that actually
works Right, I'm able to trackit.
You know per individual,everyone has, you know account
number.
You know everyone has a setup,track payments, the dates, all
(07:50):
of that stuff.
I mean put notes in it and soforth.
I invested about 52,000 and somechange of my own money and so
today I've been able to give outabout 186,000 in loans because
I've not taken any money out.
I've kept flipping over andover and over again, and so I've
(08:11):
had repeat borrowers, I've hada few new borrowers, but here's
what's interesting.
So in all of that I had areferral program and so I said
well, you know, if you refersomeone, if you are a good
borrower where you paid yourloan back in full on time, no
issues, you get to refer someoneand and if you refer that
(08:35):
person, they pay their loan back, you know, in a timely manner.
No issues, whatever.
You know you get half of theinterest that I, that I I
receive.
Oh well, one person took me upon that option.
Everyone said I don't want tomess this up, so I'll get to sit
on that pocket, right, yeah, soI was glad to see that people
(08:55):
were thoughtful about that.
Now here we are, you know, inthe pandemic during this time,
and this came in handy for a lotof people, right, and it helped
them out in so many, so manyways.
And so what I found is that inthe first pass right, as far as
you know, their first loan theyused it to get out of a buying
(09:16):
or pay off debt or whatever itmight be.
The second time was how can Iget ahead?
Right, and so now they wereputting money into their home to
like fix it up or whatever,right, or you know one person,
he started business.
So it was interesting to seehow getting out of a buying put
(09:37):
them in a different frame ofmind to do other things by
leveraging other people's money,right.
So to this date, I've issuedabout I don't know what I have
it up.
Let me really quick not tellyou I have issued 53 loans, no
(09:57):
defaults.
On average, people pay theloans back in 10.8 months, so
pretty much ahead of schedule.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
That's incredible yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, and so I've generated a 45.24% return on the
investment.
It works now going into 40 AMto answer your question so that
was the genesis of it.
So, going back into the early2000s, when I was in finance in
the county, people assumed I wasa CPA or a controller.
(10:31):
I'm like, no, just a lowlybudget tech, can you help me
with my finances?
I'm like, no, not really.
I kept getting these requested.
So here I was doing budgets forthe hospital that I worked at.
So I was like, well, what's thedifference between a
multi-million dollar budgetversus a few thousand dollars?
(10:52):
So I started doing budgets forpeople.
So that took off.
I didn't know anything aboutside business at that time.
I'm 23, 24 years old, so justdoing it, I wasn't charging
anyone.
Then it got to the point whereI was like I have to make
something out of this.
So that morphed into my firstand into being an entrepreneur.
(11:15):
So I started my consultingbusiness and it was just get
around helping people withbudgets or putting them on
budgets and things of thatnature.
So I ended up getting burnedout because I had too many
clients and not enough time.
One of the things I learnedalong the way is that people are
very sensitive and privateabout their financial
(11:36):
information.
It doesn't matter that they'retalking to me one-on-one.
It was like why do you wantthat information?
I'm like I'm excited to do yourbudget, but why do you want it?
It's like, okay, you don't haveto give it to me, but your
budget won't be accurate.
So, now, over the years, fromabout 2004, 2005, I was directly
(11:57):
doing that here and there.
So when I started the lendingside of things, I noticed that
they had everything in theirhead as far as their budget,
their numbers, and that's theworst place to have your
personal financial numbers inyour head.
(12:17):
So when I started talking toindividual borrowers about, hey,
why borrow money to do this?
Have you thought about doingthat?
Instead, it was like oh, itmakes a lot of sense, I'll give
you a loan.
That doesn't make sense forwhen you're using this manner.
So then I said, well, how can Ihelp people help themselves?
(12:39):
Because before, when I firstdid it, it was more in the line
of well, something came up, so Ican't finish the budget, but
I'll get back to it.
It may never do, or it would bewell.
You told me to do this and Ireally didn't want to do it, so
therefore I'm going to stop it.
No harm to me, but it doesn'tend well for them.
(13:02):
So this time around I was likehow can I help people help
themselves?
I thought about all the lessonslearned in the first pass with
this and I was like well, whatif I designed something that
allow people to plug and play ifyou will, but it gets away from
the traditional budget to whereit's scenario-based.
So people always want to knowwhat if I spent this money?
(13:27):
What would be the impact?
Well, what else could I do withthis money?
And so it had to go beyond justthe typical money in, money out
.
So I designed this expansivetool in Excel that touches on
everything for the most part.
And so you have your income andyou have your expenses, but I
(13:50):
created the different scenariosin the expenses so that people
get to see what happens if.
What happens if inflation goesup?
What happens if I get demotedor I have to take a pay cut?
What happens if my expenses goup and I have a family?
What happens if?
And so I have these differentscenarios that people just plug
(14:13):
in, and a lot of the stuff isautomated, so that now, before
you make a financial decision,you can actually plug in some
numbers to see what the outcomecould be.
So it puts you in the ballparkto make a better or more sound
decision.
And so with that, you havepeople who have multiple jobs.
What's the impact to that?
So you have debt payoff.
How can you view your debtpayoff differently.
(14:37):
And so I use a certain methodthat it works, because the
average person they live checkto check with a little bit above
that.
And so what this tool does is itallows them to create cash flow
without having to do anything,but make some slight adjustments
in how they're viewing theirdebt.
(14:57):
So you can classify your debtinto different category types,
and then it tells you if yourdebt is good, bad or whatever it
might be.
And so if it's a good debt, whydon't you put in all the extra
money towards a good debt whenit's not going to give you any
value?
And so now you readjust orreallocate your money towards
(15:19):
the bad debt to get it off ofthe books faster.
But what that does is it freesup cash flow.
And so now, because you areliving, check to check that
additional $200, it comes inhandy.
And so you still pin up yourdebt.
And so it has a lot of otherfeatures where you can manage
your assets, you can set yoursavings goals, you can look at
(15:40):
your retirements, yourretirement withdrawal, early
retirement.
It even has the cost of livingcalculated in there.
If Aline says, hey, I'm leavingcity A to move to city B, ok,
well, before you do, I'm justgoing to call you to move.
What is the difference insalary that I should expect,
(16:01):
expenses, blah, blah, blah.
And so now you have all of that, and all of this is tied
together so that if you plug itin one spot, it will show
another spot at this applicable.
And so now, once you go throughall of this, now you have a
full picture of your personalfinances, and so you get to make
(16:21):
these decisions.
You can say well, I want to putthis in because I'm embarrassed
to see that number.
Don't put it in right, butyou've got to have a complete
picture, but it's all you.
Now.
The beauty of all of this isthat what I've learned is that
People don't know where they areon the financial independence
spectrum, right, so it's likemaybe eight to 10, depending on
(16:43):
how you want to view it.
You know different levels to it, and so, like, for instance,
you'll commonly hear people sayI want to get into real estate.
Right, as if that's an easything to get into and make money
.
Right, right, and so it doesn'tmatter, you know, if you live
in Trick, the Check or a littlebit above that or whatever.
Right, you want to jump intosomething you're not too
(17:03):
familiar with.
But what happens is that youjump into these things and you
really don't know too much aboutit, and you don't know where
you can pull the money from topay for a course and do a down
payment, whatever it might be,and so you end up losing money.
Well, part of that is becauseyou don't know where you are on
the spectrum.
So let's just say, for instance, if you are on the spectrum,
(17:28):
where you are, say, at financialreliance, and what that means
is that you're depending onsomeone for some form of your
income, if not all of it, right.
And so you could be at a nineto five and your ability to make
an ends meet.
Or it could be where yourincome is a supplemental income
and you're also depending onfamily for income right.
(17:48):
But you are talking aboutdabbling into something, that's
say, in the financial securityrealm, which is only assets and
property or investments.
Something has to give, and isusually your bank account, right
.
And so what I did was, you know,created an assessment based on
this financial independencemodel, so that you answer a few
(18:10):
questions and not let you knowwhere you are on the spectrum,
but also what it does is itwalks you through not only where
you are, but what you need tofocus on to get out of this
situation and onto the nextlevel, right, and so now, with
that it's, I've designed it sothat I will be feeding you all
(18:32):
the information that you need.
So if you need to learn how todo whatever with your money,
right, I'll have content on that.
Right, if you need to be in agroup, I can direct you to that.
Whatever, right?
So it's going to walk youthrough all the things that you
need to do to get out of that.
And so, combined with the tool,now you have a complete picture
(18:54):
, right?
And so that's where 48 am wasborn, and so where I came up
with the name.
Is that, and why I focus onpeople of color, is that you see
this all the time and you hearthis all the time.
Where you know, you see whereyou see the article, where it
says you know, you know blackpeople are lagging behind, you
(19:16):
know the white population bythis percentage, you know with
their finances, or you knowthere's greater poverty in the
black community, blah, blah,blah, right, and I start to
think why is this happening yearafter year after year, right,
why is that gap widening so farto where it's so problematic
(19:38):
that no one seems to have theanswer?
No, I'm not saying I have theanswer, but I want to play a
part in seeing if I can shrinkthat gap.
And so 48 am is short for 40acres of the mule, right, and so
?
Not sure if you've ever heardthat before, right, but during
slavery the government promisedslaves that upon their release
(20:02):
they would get 40 acres of themule.
And so if you go back and youknow throughout history, you'll
see that you know owning land,owning mules, you know growing
crops.
That was a way to generatefinancial independence, right,
right.
And so when you go back and youlook at that in regards to
(20:23):
where folks are today, it's tiedbecause when you look at, say,
your ancestors when they came up, through the 17th to 1800s, and
if they owned land it waspassed down to, you know future
generations.
That put you know currentgenerations in a certain
financial situation.
Right, that's better than thosewho didn't.
So for me, creating 40 am isthat we're not getting the 48%
(20:47):
of the mule, right, but you cancreate your own 40 acres of the
mule just by improving yourfinancial literacy, right, just
being able to manage your moneydifferently and better, and so I
feel that this tool, thisinformation, having access to
capital, can put you on thatpath to only your 48% of the
(21:07):
mule, whatever that's going tobe.
So that's the genesis of it andthat's how we got here.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I mean that's incredible.
Yeah, it is.
It is so thoughtful.
Look, I'm not surprised thatthis is thoughtful, right,
because it's you and we workedwith you in the days that you
were a business analyst and youthought about these different
scenarios, and I think it's soimportant for people to have
(21:39):
those scenarios in mind versuslike hey, can I borrow some
money and they're not.
You know, people aren't seeingthe ramifications of it and
there's obviously now I don'twant to say a trend, but there's
a push towards financialindependence within the black
community.
We've seen it with a I don'tknow if I can say her name, but
(22:01):
a very famous tennis playerwho's partnered up with a
certain organization about acertain color kind of purse.
So we'll leave it.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I don't know why you can't say it.
I don't know why I can't say iteither.
I feel like people should knowabout this.
Sure.
There's no reason we're notgetting paid for it.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
This is not an ad.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
It's not sponsored, but Serena Williams has
partnered with a company forfinancial independence called
the purple purse I think is whatit's called.
So there's definitely thatawakening of we've got to be,
we've got to find our way tofinancial independence because
nobody else is going to look outfor us to do that right.
(22:45):
And that's even I mean even ifyou look at generations that are
coming out of college, I meanyou look at this right, the
housing market is bonkers, likeyou can't afford a house coming
out of school unless you're,unless you're really super lucky
or you've inherited it orsomething right.
(23:07):
So most people are going intogoing to look at, you know,
apartments with friends andthings like that.
That's only sustainable for solong.
And you know, I think this isso important.
I don't know, I don't know whatyour age, demographic is right,
but I don't know if you seelike younger people coming out
(23:30):
saying like, hey, look, I coulduse a leg up until I get myself
settled, or you know if it's, ifit's wide ranging or things
like that.
But I would imagine this islike this is transformational.
Yeah, that's the point that'sreally to have a transform
people's lives.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
You know, and and and part of this.
I you touched on the housingpart of it.
So, there's a tool that I havein here, where you know, you
hear this argument where peoplesay oh, if you rent, you throw
away money.
Right, and I disagree with thatright, because not every
situation let me throw awaymoney, and so I designed this,
(24:10):
this calculator that shows youif you plug it in, if you get
your numbers, you know from areliable source and plug these
numbers in, it indicates whetheryou should rent or whether you
should buy, right, it breaks itdown for you.
There's a reason why.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Right, so that, so that way you're well informed,
versus saying, oh, let me, youknow, borrow this down payment
and get a house that I canbarely afford.
Right, Because you don't seethe long term ramifications of
that right, and so so we havethe.
I try to be as thoughtful aspossible, whether you are just
out of, you know, college, or ifyou are middle age, you know,
(24:51):
or you're near retirement, youknow where.
I think this could help a lotof different people, regardless
of what age range you're in, andit's just a matter of making
sure that it's easy tounderstand and easy to use.
And I think that's the biggestthing, because one thing I
learned along the way is aboutfinancial trauma, right, and it
(25:13):
didn't dawn on me until I wasbuilding this thing where how
you engage with your family orthose around you when they came
to money will determine how youview it right.
And so I remember growing up andI heard this, this phrase, so
(25:33):
often, and it's just like youknow, you say like, hey, how's
it going?
And somebody will say, oh, I'mjust a poor black man trying to
make it right and you didn'tthink anything of it, right?
But but now when you start tolike understand, like you hit
this over and over, so thatmeans that this person is
struggling, he's poor and he'sbarely making it right and so,
(25:57):
and so it doesn't dawn on youbut that's just been planted
right.
And so now when you go home tolike I'm gonna cut back on this,
or we can't, you know, buy this, or we have to cancel this,
whatever it might be right,You're not giving the full
context, but you're seeing where, every time you turn around,
you can't afford some right.
(26:19):
So, to make it more real, Igrew up with my grandpayers and
they grew up in the GreatDepression, right, my granddad
hated things.
Okay, right yeah everything wasunder the mattress, right, and
so I understand, and so I didn'tthink it impacted me, right,
(26:41):
until I got older, right, and Iwould always have money in the
house.
They just thought that everyonehad money in the house right.
Yeah, not that much money right.
Right and so so my grandfather,he had this.
This whole money doesn't growon trees each.
(27:01):
I'm not gonna give it to you,but I memorized it because I've
heard it so often.
And it's like, if you go to himand you like, hey, can I borrow
$10?
And it's like, oh, when does itgrow on trees?
I have to fix income, blah,blah, blah.
Right, so now, when you put allthis stuff together, you just
see limitation, right, and it'slike, oh, limitation, like, and
(27:23):
everyone around you was sayingthis so now you have your first
job out of high school orcollege.
What do you think is about tohappen?
Right, so you don't have soundmoney principles, right, you're
lacking in this financialliteracy space.
So you're going to end up inthis space where, eventually,
you will be a court.
(27:47):
Right, you will have financialissues to where money is tight
always, and so that doesn'tmatter if you get a raise or
promotion or whatever, right,you have bad money habits, right
, and so you're just gonna havemore if you make more money.
So you see this a lot in theblack community, and so so me
(28:10):
moving in this direction isgeared towards transforming
folks, transforming how theyview and transforming their
lives.
Transforming, you know a lot ofdifferent things, and the part
of this tool that that I builtin, there's a time component to
it, right, and the reason that'simportant because you can this
all the time time is money.
I disagree with that.
Right Now you can, you canalways get money back.
(28:33):
You can never get your timeback, right?
So I need people to startthinking.
You know about time differentlyand how you spend your time.
So, if you understand where youare with the next from the
financial spectrum, if you havesound financial principles,
right Now you're seeing yourtime differently, differently,
(28:54):
right?
So am I spending my time wiselyat this job?
That's not paying me well,right, they're gonna go
somewhere else.
Do I have enough time to get asecond job?
And can the second job, youknow, pay me enough to pay off
ex debt?
Right?
You know, I always tell peoplelike, if you have a second job
(29:16):
or you're working overtime andyou live off of that, you will
forever have a need for overtimeand you will forever have a
second job.
Right, because you can't, youcan't not get off of that
hamster wheel, right and so andso now you have a lot of people
of color who are saying I wantto start a business?
(29:36):
Right, and that's very noble,right.
Where's the time coming from?
Where's it coming from?
Right, because when you breakit down, that's just keep
everything.
You know something 24 hours,eight for work, eight for sleep,
eight for life Right.
So if you're working overtimethat's just say four hours a day
, that's 12 hours you're gonnapull that extra time from
(30:00):
somewhere sleep or life right.
And so now things start to get alittle hairy at this point.
Right, because if not gettingenough sleep, you got health
issues.
If you, if you're not spendingthe proper amount of time in
life and life is with family,with friends, running errands,
keeping your appointments,whatever things get out of
(30:20):
control in that space, right.
So there has to be a properbalance.
So now this tool helps you lookat time differently.
Do I have enough time to starta business?
If you do, great.
Now let's move to the moneyside.
Do I have enough money?
No, Okay, great.
So now you don't start abusiness, but you have time.
(30:41):
So how can you get more money?
Maybe get another job or maybe,you know, do something else.
I don't know, but it forces youto now think differently, right
.
And so that's the wholetransformative piece of it.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Yeah, I mean it's incredible how much the mind and
the concepts we have createdand brought down from
generations even right, likeyou're talking about, do impact
us.
What were we, I was, I mean,well, I had a whole conversation
(31:17):
recently on generational trauma, but also on systemic trauma.
Like there's just so much thatplays a role in these stories we
hear in our heads that are true, right, they are the truth, and
if we don't also address that,then things don't actually ever
change.
I just, I think that is sooften left out.
(31:39):
I mean, look, I'm also I'm amath major, so, and you know,
obviously worked in tech for along time and I feel like
sometimes it's like it's so it'sjust about the numbers.
Like, if you just go to a CPAor whatever, it's just about the
numbers.
I feel like there's a wholeconversation that is left out
(32:00):
from this and you're bringing areally holistic approach to that
understanding, which is such anamazing opportunity for people
and a whole new way of reallyunderstanding themselves,
understanding their families,understanding the systems that
they live in.
And then one of the things thatI've been really focused on is
(32:24):
how do we become those creatorsthen in our own world, right,
how do we then take that stepinto?
Well, what do I want this to be?
How, how I'm not just stuck inthese patterns, now I am
conscious, it is the forefrontof my mind.
What are the decisions I nowmake going forward to actually
(32:44):
change that?
And I just think that that's somuch of what you're bringing
into this, and I think it's justso incredible.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Yeah, I totally agree with that.
You know, I just think that thenumbers tell a story, right.
And so what story are yournumbers telling you?
And I think for too long,people have not viewed their
personal numbers in that manner,right, no one ever wants to say
(33:14):
that they're broke or they'repoor, right, so there's a stigma
attached to it, but it's okay,right, it's okay, you are where
you are and my goal is to getpeople to break that.
Right, like, this is where youare, but it doesn't mean you
have to stay there.
So what story is your numbertelling you?
(33:37):
Or your number's telling you?
And I think this is going to beso important and it helps
people embrace the presentversus so many people of color
that live in the future.
Right, if I can just get this,if I can just flip that, if I
can just, and it's like, yeah,but you're not laying the proper
(34:00):
foundation, right, and thatstory just doesn't start with
what you are Like I can talkabout.
It goes back, you know, ageneration or two or three or
whatever.
Right, and so the goal is toreally reach as many people as
possible, but to be thoughtfulabout it.
You know, like, I don't wantthis to be this thing where it's
(34:21):
just like come on, come on, youknow, but I want to be focused
to where people understand thatthis is serious.
Because you hear, in the blackcommunity, where you know, we
talk about, like, buildinggenerational wealth, right?
So?
And I don't think that a lot ofus understand what that really
(34:41):
means and how much effort ittakes to get to that point, and
we think that we can get to apoint of building that
generational wealth in onegeneration, and most times, more
times than not, that's notrealistic, right.
But it doesn't mean you can'tget a foundation for the next
generation to add on to that,right.
If you know what your plan isand most of us don't have a plan
(35:03):
, you know we just say, well,I'm just going to save, okay,
that's great, but what else?
Right.
And so there are four ways, youknow, to pretty much build
wealth right, legal, right,legal ways to build wealth right
.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
One is real estate.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
One is real estate, one is life insurance, the other
is starting a business and thelast one is investment.
Right, just four ways, so it'snot complicated, right?
You have to understand justthat basic thing to just move
forward, right, and so justgetting back to the basics and
(35:44):
meeting people where they areand just come on from there, and
also just correcting badinformation, you know, just like
I remember one of the peoplesaying you're always going to
have debt, so go ahead and maxthat credit card out.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
All right, right no.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
And you're like everyone has debt.
Just go ahead and max out this$10,000 credit card that I don't
have any way of paying back,you know.
And it's just like, and it justgoes on and on and it's and
it's saying oh, that's good debtbecause it builds your credit.
It may be, but that's not thewhole picture, right?
So yeah, it's just a lot of badinformation that's floating
(36:28):
around out there.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Sure, sure.
And that's the other thing too.
Is that you don't see, likeit'll take you 84 years, if you
make the minimum payment, to paythis off, right?
You're not going to be thereLike that's no fun, right?
So it's just a wow yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I remember I'll say this quick little story.
You know, in college they giveeveryone these credit cards.
You know, you sign for thiscredit card and build your
credit and it was like $500.
Like you know, I'll pay thisback Again, not realizing how
much 500 is, and I don't have ameans to pay it back.
Right, you know so.
But you figured something tocome up, or you can figure it
(37:10):
out, Right, and nothing evercame up, and so I maxed it out,
and I maxed it out in one of themost embarrassing ways.
I came home from a break andsomeone take my little brother
shop, Right, you know.
So we went to the store and Iwas like what do you want?
He's like anything.
I'm like, yeah, I can't getanything.
I have a t-shirt, a graphicshort, you know.
(37:31):
I said you want shoes, yeah, Iwant shoes, I need graph shoes.
And they were like sir, thiscar has been declined.
I'm like, shh, I have money onthis car.
Can you swipe it again?
Right, yeah, Just swipe ittwice, bro.
And it's still the same thing.
And my brother cried.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
So that's when I realized like, oh, there's a
limit to this, so fast forward,I'm buying my first house
because I didn't pay it back,right, and because you know
who's going to make me pay itback, right.
So go to buy my first house andthey pull credit and they're
like hey, you have this creditcard where you owe money.
(38:14):
I'm like what credit card?
And they told me what it wasand I'm like, yes, $500.
Nope, 1750.
Right, 1750.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I'm like no, it's a $500.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Didn't even think about interest, right, and so,
yeah, it's like paying it back.
So again, no one told me aboutthis Right, no one taught me
this, no one in my family, noone at the school, no one Right.
So, and I'm not lucky.
So imagine, you know, peoplehave it worse.
So Hmm.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I just want it's.
It's so cool to hear all thedifferent things and the
continuous iteration of growththat you have through all of
this and I think that's justamazing and wonderful.
And I kind of want to just tapinto your mind, maybe once a
quarter now, to see where you'regoing, because I mean, it's
(39:12):
just fascinating and amazing andI guarantee in another six
months you're going to be doingsomething bigger, greater and
more impactful, like I justthink it's a wonderful gift you
have.
Is that something you've?
Is that just a piece of youlike how do you, how do you do
that?
You like I mean, I kind of doit also.
(39:34):
So I'm like this is super funand I see, I see you.
But is that?
Is that always sort of the waythat you thought about things?
Like I can see the impact thatyou also want to make and that
doesn't just come from I don'tknow.
That comes from somethingreally deep within you too.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah, it's funny because I so my grandmother, you
know, like all parents, theyask what it would be when you
grow up.
You know that type of thing.
So I remember one day in myroom they asked me that question
like when you're going to dowhen you become an adult?
I was like I'm not going tohelp people, you know.
And she's like what does thatmean?
(40:11):
I'm not going to help people?
Right, and that was my answer,right, and that always stuck
with me.
So, fast forward, I'm at thisone job and start to my boss and
we don't really do arelationship and she has the
same question and this is, likeyou know, before I went to down
this path and I just want tohelp people.
(40:32):
I don't know, I don't know whatit is, I don't know what my
call about.
She's going to help people andalong the way I've always helped
people, right.
It was just, you know, helpingwith this, helping with that,
whatever, right.
And so she was like for futurereference, you have to define
what this help looks like, right.
And so I didn't know how todefine it, you know.
(40:54):
So I struggle, you know, alongthe way, and then it hit me
right where the help I want togive people.
I want to, you know, put themin a better situation in life,
right, whether it's, you know,having a conversation, you know,
helping them financially, youknow, helping them find a job or
whatever it might be.
I just want to see people getto a better place, to where that
(41:17):
burden that they were carryingjust, you know, disappears.
You know.
And so numbers I can do numbersall day, right, and so I had to
figure out how can I leveragemy strengths, my talents, to
help people in a dynamic waythat lessens their burden, you
(41:40):
know.
And so this is just one of oneof the things, and you know, and
this is why you know, where Iam now working in government
appeals to me so much, right,you know where I'm helping
people, even though I'm on thebackside of things.
I'm in transformation, right,I'm doing these amazing projects
(42:01):
, but I see the impact that ithas in the lives of everyday
people.
I'm like, wow, this is prettycool, right, and so, you know,
that's why it's just sofulfilling to just kind of be in
this role and doing what I'mdoing.
You know, which I'm passionateabout, which is like
transformation, modernization,process improvement, things like
that, right, so, so, yes, it'sall you know tied together can I
(42:25):
?
Speaker 2 (42:25):
just I just want to say something really quickly
here and you all can disagreewith me and that's very fine,
that, boss, I just call bullshiton some of that.
I, you know, everyone's likeeveryone's.
You know you have to definewhat it is, what it is.
What exactly is that you want?
What's the?
What is the one position thatyou're going to be for the rest
(42:47):
of your life?
Like you should be aiming atthat, like no, I don't agree
with that at all, becausesometimes it takes life
experiences to go through to beable to understand and define
that later on.
I think it takes your path todefine the path as as you move
along it.
Sorry, I just I just get sotired of people being like,
especially with young people,you're like we should know.
(43:09):
Like, what are you aiming for?
I don't know yet, like I don'teven know.
I haven't even like lived lifeenough to know that.
Like, leave that open for me alittle bit right so.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
I'm not going to acquire.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Let the church say amen yeah no, I agree with that
same person would have said butlet's think outside the box.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Oh my god, but you want me to be in a box, but I
got you, okay, cool exactly yeahyeah, no, I totally agree with
that, because this is gonnasound crazy the world is this
big right.
There's a lot of people, a lotof opportunity, a lot of things
to explore, a lot of things tosee and to say I'm gonna be this
(43:53):
one thing right here, from thetime I realized I want to be
that thing until the time I die.
Right, that one thing right now, that's what you really want
and you, you're short have thatright but the vast majority of
us, it doesn't happen that way.
Right, like, how many times havewe been in a working
environment where we talk topeople about, hey, what's your
(44:14):
degree in?
And here we are working for aninsurance company?
Right, that's just like how dowe get here?
Right, yeah, my degree is inmathematics, my degree is in you
know whatever.
Right, it's just like, yeah,but we're, we're an insurance
you know, so I just think thatthat's what makes life so great.
(44:36):
You know where you wake up andyou say you know what?
I'm gonna quit this insurancejob.
I'm gonna do this thing overhere, like start a part of the
podcast, right and so, and noone saw that one come in.
And this is when everyone callsyou crazy, like you must be
crazy.
We know about starting thepodcast, who's doing that now,
and it's just right exactly.
(44:59):
But before you know, it is openup doors and it's taken off or
whatever it might be, or itmight even teach you about
yourself, right, but that's thegood life, you know, you did you
down one road and, like thisother road looks pretty
interesting to go over here,right, and just do it.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
So yeah, yeah and I mean I talked.
Sorry, go on, cheryl, you goahead you guys.
Oh no, I was gonna say you know,we.
I feel like a lot of well again.
I work in the leadership spacetoo.
A lot of leaders lead in a anindustrial revolution when we
are living in the AI revolution.
It's a completely differentworld and you are not just going
(45:35):
to follow one ladder towhatever it is like.
New is continuously opening upand different ways of exploring
business and the world changeconstantly and to have that
expectation of somebody is justliving in a very old way of of
(45:57):
understanding business in myperspective.
Yep.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
I agree, okay, so I want to talk Dwayne math a
little bit.
Right, because you broke.
You broke up life into threeeight hour segments, right.
So there's, you know, we hearabout it all the time there's
boy math, there's girl math,there's dog math, there's cat
math but now there's Dwayne math, right, so Dwayne math also
includes eight hours of life.
(46:23):
So how do you spend that portionof the math, dwayne?
Because we talked a little bitabout hiking, we talked a little
bit about photography, but, um,like what, what is your ideal?
Eight hours of life, like, whatdoes that look like?
Speaker 1 (46:39):
no man now yeah.
I'll be 50 this year, so I haveto preserve my limbs, you know,
and so I'm spending time in,you know, physical therapy
trying to get my body backrealign.
(47:00):
Uh, going to the chiropractor.
So it's like, yeah, sometimesgetting all hurts, you know so
uh, so, but yeah, so I'm doingthat.
But, um, um, working on thisbusiness, um, you know, I'll try
to go hiking here and therewhen I can.
Um, I mentor a few people,which I really enjoy, and so
(47:24):
that takes quite a bit of mytime.
Um, you know, learning about afew different things, so it just
depends.
You know, like, whatever freetime I have, it's, you know, you
know working, you know family,and then, you know, working on
this business and whatever otherfree time I have, it's.
You know I have to be verysmart about that and, plus, it
(47:47):
just depends on if I even feellike it, and I think that's one
of the the the beautiful thingsof getting older.
I don't feel like doinganything.
Who's gonna make me right?
Right, just take a nap today,and you know that's my day, you
know so so yes, it just dependsand you know, um, like I said,
(48:08):
I'm gonna, you know, get back tohiking this year.
You might really get back intoit, and that's one thing I do
miss, um you know, since I'veinjured my back and all that fun
stuff, you know.
So I'm looking forward togetting back to it.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
Where's your favorite place to hike?
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Oh man, the Pacific Northwest actually.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
I was just gonna say you should come out here, I live
in Spokane.
Well, I'll cut that out.
I live in Spokane, so like youshould, oh nice.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Trust me, I wouldn't get back out there.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Yeah, I love it out there.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
I mean Cuddy Olympics and the Cascades, and I mean
you can hit up there, Rocky likeit's just incredible.
Have you gone to the hoe Likeanyway?
Speaker 1 (48:51):
sorry, there's just so much, no, no, go ahead.
Yeah, no, I agree, like yourexcitement is how I feel about
it.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
It is just.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
I tell people all the time, like, if you enjoy the
outdoors and you like naturalraw beauty, there's nothing
coming close to PacificNorthwest.
It is just amazing.
And you're out on the Easternpart.
I was out on the Western part,that's right, that's right,
that's right.
Seattle, yeah, in a little towncalled Stilicum.
(49:20):
Washington, yeah, around thePuget Sound.
That was amazing because whereI lived at the time it was like
right on the street from thePuget Sound and so every winter
the seals would come in and eatthemselves on the shore, and it
was nice on the daytime, thennight they'll still start to
part.
(49:40):
This was definitely so, butoverall that's been my favorite
place to hike.
Texas comes in a close second.
I was shocked that they havesome good trails out in Texas.
I discovered a dinosaurfootprint out in Texas, oh cool.
(50:01):
So, yeah, yep, I was up on thisridge and I happened to look
down and like what is that Right?
So I hike all the way down andsplash out the water and lo and
behold, a dinosaur footprint.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
Yeah, so it was pretty cool.
That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Yeah.
So now my goal is to hike Likewhat is that?
The Oregon Trail.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Oh, that'd be cool yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Yeah, I have to build the courage for that one.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Sure, don't get this into a lot.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Sorry, yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
You know you're right.
Oh my goodness, See, Cheryl nowyou need to come out.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
You have to come out to the.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Pacific.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Northwest because it's totally worth it and
there's just so many cool places.
We actually my sister'sbachelorette party last year
because we're in our late 30s,not in our 20s anymore for
bachelorette parties we went toMount Rainier National Park and
stayed there and did some hiking, so it was amazing.
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah, yeah, I got this picture of Mount Rainier.
I was out hiking.
It was freezing cold.
I don't know what I was hikingthat day, but it's time to give
it a go.
And so Mount Rainier is in thebackground and there's this
bridge that at the right angle.
If you look at it, it lookslike the bridge is going
directly into Mount Rainier, andso I was like, let me go back
(51:27):
and get the camera and get thispicture.
And so I had to walk acrossthis bridge and it was like a
thin layer of ice and I didn'tsee it.
And I go back and, legs up inthe air, my hand is clutching
the rail.
Oh no, I'm probably sure myhand pretty still on that wooden
rail because I squeezed it sohard.
(51:48):
Luckily, I didn't fallcompletely down, but I went back
and got the camera and took thepicture and I came out quite
amazing.
So I entered into this contestand it came in second or third.
Oh, wow, awesome, yeah, so Iguess it was all worth it.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Totally, yeah, exactly.
Oh, my gosh.
Well, you let me know if you'recoming out, because I love to
yeah, for sure, for sure, gohiking.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Actually, I would take a trip out there.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Yeah, I went hiking up, was it Cougar Mountain to go
paragliding off the side of it?
So that was Cheryl, sorry, butthen you see, I saw the Olympics
, I saw the Cascades.
It was like a clear enough dayto see Rainier.
It was just incredible.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
That's a hard pass for me.
That's a hard pass, I willnever do it again.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
Never do it again.
Always want to have done itonce.
So that's what I did, Anyway,but the hike you hike up to it
and stuff too.
There's a lot of contemplationthat goes on and potentially
turning back, but still made itup to the top.
So anyway, it was wonderful.
So, Dwayne, we are alreadyhitting the hour here which, for
(53:06):
us, this just happens.
It's so much fun talking withpeople.
What we love for people to dois be able to find you.
So what is the best place that,if they're looking to get in
contact with you with the workthat you're doing, or just to
connect to learn more, whereshould they go?
Speaker 1 (53:25):
I am only on LinkedIn , so you can find me under my
name D-E-W-A-Y-N-E-G-O-R-D-O-N.
So there's plenty of DwayneGordon's out there.
So find the one that works forthe city of Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
There you go, fair enough, oh my goodness, I really
I love your life post where weworked together, and I wish you
nothing but the best andcontinue successes.
I appreciate that you andEileen loved to hike.
(54:04):
As I've told people Last year,I do one thing that scares me
every year and last year I did acouple of things that scared me
.
This one was doing a 5K mud run.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Oh nice.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
You have to understand that the longest walk
I've taken in three years wasdown to my mailbox and back.
So this was absolutely bananas.
I mean, I was caked in mud, Iwas tired, and they tell you
they're like if you raise yourhands in the air, we think
you're dancing.
Do this Like when you crossyour arms?
And about mile one in my brain,my brain was going cross the
(54:41):
arms, man cross the arms, and Ijust I so appreciate that you
found joy in hiking and findingthat particular piece peaceful
to you.
So I'm so glad that it's notall about the math and that your
(55:03):
Dwayne math includes livinglife.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
So, yeah, you have to have that balance For sure, for
sure.
Speaker 3 (55:10):
Yeah, all right, folks, we'll listen again.
Reach out to Dwayne Wharton onLinkedIn and we'll put it into
our socials, just so that peoplehave it there.
But on behalf of my lovelyco-host, eileen Grimes, and me,
cheryl Kansas-Hafio, this closesout our episode of you.
Only Go Once, dwayne.
(55:32):
It was a pleasure, thank you,thank you, I really enjoyed it.
It was so awesome.
And then, folks, until nexttime.
We'll talk to you later, bye.
Hi, I'm Dwayne Gordon .
I hope, when you look back atyour life, you live life by
design, because you're only goldonce.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
Thank you everybody for comingtonight.
We are, I'm so excited.
I don't know, I've had a roughweek.
I'll be honest.
I'm just going to level set thegroup here tonight, but as kind
of soon as I sign on and I seeCheryl's face and Dwayne, it's
been too long.
But I am so excited to be heretonight and have this
(00:35):
conversation.
We are kicking off anotherepisode of you Only Go Once.
I'm Aileen Grimes.
I'm here with my amazing,wonderful friend and co-host,
cheryl Contafio, and Cheryl isgoing to introduce our guest
tonight.
Cheryl, off to you.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Thanks, aileen.
They say life is a journey, andDwayne has taken that adage to
heart.
A self-proclaimed sporadicentrepreneur, dwayne Gordon has
dabbled in a couple of ventureshere and there, each one adding
a unique thread to the tapestryof his experience.
Currently, dwayne is in theprocess of launching his most
exciting venture, 40 AM Capital,which is a financial services
(01:13):
business that is geared towardschanging the way people of color
view and engage with theirpersonal finances.
When the entrepreneurial spirittakes a breather, dwayne dons
the hat of a mentor, guidingothers through the wilderness of
their lives and ambitions.
His wisdom, gleaned from thesuccesses and stumbles of his
own life experiences, is avaluable compass for those
(01:33):
seeking to navigate the twistsand turns of life.
But wait, there's more.
In a surprising turn of events,dwayne found himself in the
world of civil service, provingthat sometimes the most
unplanned paths can lead to themost fulfilling destinations.
Dwayne brings his unique blendof creativity, problem solving
and a touch of calmness to theworld of bureaucracy,
(01:54):
transforming the city ofPhiladelphia one project at a
time.
This year, dwayne is gearing upto getting back to hiking.
Unintended hiking is the onething that allows him to unwind,
unplug, exhale and fully enjoythe outdoors.
Along with hiking, dwayne willlook to get back to his other
passion, which is photography ofnature.
Everybody, please, welcomeDwayne.
(02:16):
Gordon Dwayne, we're so happyto have you here.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, I'm happy to be here, so I'm looking forward to
this conversation.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Oh, my goodness.
So disclosure for our audienceis that Dwayne, Eileen and I all
used to work together and itwas a blast.
Like we always had fun.
You know, Dwayne got toexperience my driving once when
we went to visit the college.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, so often for you, that was a nightmare.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I still talk about that.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I'm sure you do.
Yeah, the poor man.
So also disclosure, dwayne islike six foot 100 and for people
that are my height, which islike five foot four and a good
day, he's very tall.
So the poor man got to my carand his knees were up around his
ears so, and you know, he hadto deal with my driving on top
of that.
So it was just, it was anexperience.
(03:11):
It was an experience, but wereconnected through a mutual
friend and he kind of sharedwith us that you were going to
put together this new venturethat we're so excited to talk
about.
So can you give us a littlemore about 40 am capital, where
the whole idea came from andwhere it's going?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
This all started back in 2019.
In 2019.
So the end of every year, Inormally just spend time
reflecting on how did I do thatyear Right?
So look at professionally,personally and even financially.
And so when I got to thefinancial part, it was more
(03:54):
about you know, did I reach mygoals?
Did I really help anyonefinancially, whether it's with
my own money or helping themthink through their own
financial issues?
And I didn't.
I missed the target Right.
And so once in 2020, I thoughtlike, how can I help people?
Right, and I'm not rich, butI'm financially comfortable.
(04:19):
And so I want to see how Icould leverage my money and help
those around me.
And so I was like, well, let mejust give people loans, you
know.
And so the idea popped into myhead.
You know, I shared with acouple of friends.
They're like are you crazy?
You never get your money back,you know.
(04:39):
And so I just felt otherwise,and so I just figured that if I
put some rules around it and soforth, you know it could work.
This was before the pandemic,right.
Yeah, you know so, going toJanuary, I reached out, you know
, to a couple of friends, a fewfamily members, and told them
(04:59):
what I was looking to do.
And no takers crickets right,and so it's like well, you know,
maybe that wasn't a dumb idea.
And about two days later I had acousin reach out and say, hey,
were you serious about that?
Like, yeah, long story short,gave her a loan and it took off,
right.
And I started getting the textmessages and the phone calls and
(05:22):
even though the folks whoinitially reached out, they are
financially, you know, in abetter situation than a lot of
other people, it was just thelife stuff that happens, right,
you know, two flat tire, theleaking roof, you know whatever
it might be where they didn'twant to dip into emergency funds
(05:42):
or whatever it might be, right.
So that took off and so I keptit simple Flat interest rate.
You know 12 months, 18 months.
You know I did a loan like thesmallest loan is like $500 up to
$10,000.
And what made, what made thewhole thing unique was I create
the term so that it made it easyfor people to repay me, versus
(06:02):
saying, hey, something happened,I can't pay you back.
So what I did was I said, okay,I'm not going to tell you how
much to pay me back every month.
Right, you have a 12 month or18 month loan.
You figure it out right,because you know your budget
better than I do.
So you can use the entire youknow timeframe of the loan.
I didn't set a date for themeither, right?
(06:23):
So if I say, cheryl, you know,pay me back 300 on the first of
every month, well, you probablyhave a mortgage, your car
payments, your insurance and soforth, right, but somebody's not
going to get paid, right?
So I didn't want it to be me,so I told Nick and figured that
out.
I also gave them, like you know, these opportunities of grace
(06:44):
where, if something comes up,doesn't matter what it is, just
give the heads up.
I'm not going to give you alate fee or penalize you or
anything.
Just tell me ahead of time,right.
And so the good thing aboutthat was was that when people
took it at the end of thatparticular you know option, if
they said, hey, I need to missJanuary's payment, that's fine.
(07:04):
I didn't tell them.
You know how the payments weregoing to stack up on them.
They automatically said I'lldouble up with my payments the
following month, and they alldid, right.
So, all of that being said, itstarted to work.
I didn't realize how much workit would be Right, because I had
all these requests coming inand everything was rolling and
so I started with one system totrack it and it worked for me.
(07:27):
But my shorter other people arelike what are you doing?
This doesn't make any sense.
I'm like, yeah, you're right.
So go back in and and refining,and refining to where I have a
full flex system now that Idesigned in Excel that actually
works Right, I'm able to trackit.
You know per individual,everyone has, you know account
number.
You know everyone has a setup,track payments, the dates, all
(07:50):
of that stuff.
I mean put notes in it and soforth.
I invested about 52,000 and somechange of my own money and so
today I've been able to give outabout 186,000 in loans because
I've not taken any money out.
I've kept flipping over andover and over again, and so I've
(08:11):
had repeat borrowers, I've hada few new borrowers, but here's
what's interesting.
So in all of that I had areferral program and so I said
well, you know, if you refersomeone, if you are a good
borrower where you paid yourloan back in full on time, no
issues, you get to refer someoneand and if you refer that
(08:35):
person, they pay their loan back, you know, in a timely manner.
No issues, whatever.
You know you get half of theinterest that I, that I I
receive.
Oh well, one person took me upon that option.
Everyone said I don't want tomess this up, so I'll get to sit
on that pocket, right, yeah, soI was glad to see that people
(08:55):
were thoughtful about that.
Now here we are, you know, inthe pandemic during this time,
and this came in handy for a lotof people, right, and it helped
them out in so many, so manyways.
And so what I found is that inthe first pass right, as far as
you know, their first loan theyused it to get out of a buying
(09:16):
or pay off debt or whatever itmight be.
The second time was how can Iget ahead?
Right, and so now they wereputting money into their home to
like fix it up or whatever,right, or you know one person,
he started business.
So it was interesting to seehow getting out of a buying put
(09:37):
them in a different frame ofmind to do other things by
leveraging other people's money,right.
So to this date, I've issuedabout I don't know what I have
it up.
Let me really quick not tellyou I have issued 53 loans, no
(09:57):
defaults.
On average, people pay theloans back in 10.8 months, so
pretty much ahead of schedule.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
That's incredible yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, and so I've generated a 45.24% return on the
investment.
It works now going into 40 AMto answer your question so that
was the genesis of it.
So, going back into the early2000s, when I was in finance in
the county, people assumed I wasa CPA or a controller.
(10:31):
I'm like, no, just a lowlybudget tech, can you help me
with my finances?
I'm like, no, not really.
I kept getting these requested.
So here I was doing budgets forthe hospital that I worked at.
So I was like, well, what's thedifference between a
multi-million dollar budgetversus a few thousand dollars?
(10:52):
So I started doing budgets forpeople.
So that took off.
I didn't know anything aboutside business at that time.
I'm 23, 24 years old, so justdoing it, I wasn't charging
anyone.
Then it got to the point whereI was like I have to make
something out of this.
So that morphed into my firstand into being an entrepreneur.
(11:15):
So I started my consultingbusiness and it was just get
around helping people withbudgets or putting them on
budgets and things of thatnature.
So I ended up getting burnedout because I had too many
clients and not enough time.
One of the things I learnedalong the way is that people are
very sensitive and privateabout their financial
(11:36):
information.
It doesn't matter that they'retalking to me one-on-one.
It was like why do you wantthat information?
I'm like I'm excited to do yourbudget, but why do you want it?
It's like, okay, you don't haveto give it to me, but your
budget won't be accurate.
So, now, over the years, fromabout 2004, 2005, I was directly
(11:57):
doing that here and there.
So when I started the lendingside of things, I noticed that
they had everything in theirhead as far as their budget,
their numbers, and that's theworst place to have your
personal financial numbers inyour head.
(12:17):
So when I started talking toindividual borrowers about, hey,
why borrow money to do this?
Have you thought about doingthat?
Instead, it was like oh, itmakes a lot of sense, I'll give
you a loan.
That doesn't make sense forwhen you're using this manner.
So then I said, well, how can Ihelp people help themselves?
(12:39):
Because before, when I firstdid it, it was more in the line
of well, something came up, so Ican't finish the budget, but
I'll get back to it.
It may never do, or it would bewell.
You told me to do this and Ireally didn't want to do it, so
therefore I'm going to stop it.
No harm to me, but it doesn'tend well for them.
(13:02):
So this time around I was likehow can I help people help
themselves?
I thought about all the lessonslearned in the first pass with
this and I was like well, whatif I designed something that
allow people to plug and play ifyou will, but it gets away from
the traditional budget to whereit's scenario-based.
So people always want to knowwhat if I spent this money?
(13:27):
What would be the impact?
Well, what else could I do withthis money?
And so it had to go beyond justthe typical money in, money out
.
So I designed this expansivetool in Excel that touches on
everything for the most part.
And so you have your income andyou have your expenses, but I
(13:50):
created the different scenariosin the expenses so that people
get to see what happens if.
What happens if inflation goesup?
What happens if I get demotedor I have to take a pay cut?
What happens if my expenses goup and I have a family?
What happens if?
And so I have these differentscenarios that people just plug
(14:13):
in, and a lot of the stuff isautomated, so that now, before
you make a financial decision,you can actually plug in some
numbers to see what the outcomecould be.
So it puts you in the ballparkto make a better or more sound
decision.
And so with that, you havepeople who have multiple jobs.
What's the impact to that?
So you have debt payoff.
How can you view your debtpayoff differently.
(14:37):
And so I use a certain methodthat it works, because the
average person they live checkto check with a little bit above
that.
And so what this tool does is itallows them to create cash flow
without having to do anything,but make some slight adjustments
in how they're viewing theirdebt.
(14:57):
So you can classify your debtinto different category types,
and then it tells you if yourdebt is good, bad or whatever it
might be.
And so if it's a good debt, whydon't you put in all the extra
money towards a good debt whenit's not going to give you any
value?
And so now you readjust orreallocate your money towards
(15:19):
the bad debt to get it off ofthe books faster.
But what that does is it freesup cash flow.
And so now, because you areliving, check to check that
additional $200, it comes inhandy.
And so you still pin up yourdebt.
And so it has a lot of otherfeatures where you can manage
your assets, you can set yoursavings goals, you can look at
(15:40):
your retirements, yourretirement withdrawal, early
retirement.
It even has the cost of livingcalculated in there.
If Aline says, hey, I'm leavingcity A to move to city B, ok,
well, before you do, I'm justgoing to call you to move.
What is the difference insalary that I should expect,
(16:01):
expenses, blah, blah, blah.
And so now you have all of that, and all of this is tied
together so that if you plug itin one spot, it will show
another spot at this applicable.
And so now, once you go throughall of this, now you have a
full picture of your personalfinances, and so you get to make
(16:21):
these decisions.
You can say well, I want to putthis in because I'm embarrassed
to see that number.
Don't put it in right, butyou've got to have a complete
picture, but it's all you.
Now.
The beauty of all of this isthat what I've learned is that
People don't know where they areon the financial independence
spectrum, right, so it's likemaybe eight to 10, depending on
(16:43):
how you want to view it.
You know different levels to it, and so, like, for instance,
you'll commonly hear people sayI want to get into real estate.
Right, as if that's an easything to get into and make money
.
Right, right, and so it doesn'tmatter, you know, if you live
in Trick, the Check or a littlebit above that or whatever.
Right, you want to jump intosomething you're not too
(17:03):
familiar with.
But what happens is that youjump into these things and you
really don't know too much aboutit, and you don't know where
you can pull the money from topay for a course and do a down
payment, whatever it might be,and so you end up losing money.
Well, part of that is becauseyou don't know where you are on
the spectrum.
So let's just say, for instance, if you are on the spectrum,
(17:28):
where you are, say, at financialreliance, and what that means
is that you're depending onsomeone for some form of your
income, if not all of it, right.
And so you could be at a nineto five and your ability to make
an ends meet.
Or it could be where yourincome is a supplemental income
and you're also depending onfamily for income right.
(17:48):
But you are talking aboutdabbling into something, that's
say, in the financial securityrealm, which is only assets and
property or investments.
Something has to give, and isusually your bank account, right
.
And so what I did was, you know,created an assessment based on
this financial independencemodel, so that you answer a few
(18:10):
questions and not let you knowwhere you are on the spectrum,
but also what it does is itwalks you through not only where
you are, but what you need tofocus on to get out of this
situation and onto the nextlevel, right, and so now, with
that it's, I've designed it sothat I will be feeding you all
(18:32):
the information that you need.
So if you need to learn how todo whatever with your money,
right, I'll have content on that.
Right, if you need to be in agroup, I can direct you to that.
Whatever, right?
So it's going to walk youthrough all the things that you
need to do to get out of that.
And so, combined with the tool,now you have a complete picture
(18:54):
, right?
And so that's where 48 am wasborn, and so where I came up
with the name.
Is that, and why I focus onpeople of color, is that you see
this all the time and you hearthis all the time.
Where you know, you see whereyou see the article, where it
says you know, you know blackpeople are lagging behind, you
(19:16):
know the white population bythis percentage, you know with
their finances, or you knowthere's greater poverty in the
black community, blah, blah,blah, right, and I start to
think why is this happening yearafter year after year, right,
why is that gap widening so farto where it's so problematic
(19:38):
that no one seems to have theanswer?
No, I'm not saying I have theanswer, but I want to play a
part in seeing if I can shrinkthat gap.
And so 48 am is short for 40acres of the mule, right, and so
?
Not sure if you've ever heardthat before, right, but during
slavery the government promisedslaves that upon their release
(20:02):
they would get 40 acres of themule.
And so if you go back and youknow throughout history, you'll
see that you know owning land,owning mules, you know growing
crops.
That was a way to generatefinancial independence, right,
right.
And so when you go back and youlook at that in regards to
(20:23):
where folks are today, it's tiedbecause when you look at, say,
your ancestors when they came up, through the 17th to 1800s, and
if they owned land it waspassed down to, you know future
generations.
That put you know currentgenerations in a certain
financial situation.
Right, that's better than thosewho didn't.
So for me, creating 40 am isthat we're not getting the 48%
(20:47):
of the mule, right, but you cancreate your own 40 acres of the
mule just by improving yourfinancial literacy, right, just
being able to manage your moneydifferently and better, and so I
feel that this tool, thisinformation, having access to
capital, can put you on thatpath to only your 48% of the
(21:07):
mule, whatever that's going tobe.
So that's the genesis of it andthat's how we got here.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I mean that's incredible.
Yeah, it is.
It is so thoughtful.
Look, I'm not surprised thatthis is thoughtful, right,
because it's you and we workedwith you in the days that you
were a business analyst and youthought about these different
scenarios, and I think it's soimportant for people to have
(21:39):
those scenarios in mind versuslike hey, can I borrow some
money and they're not.
You know, people aren't seeingthe ramifications of it and
there's obviously now I don'twant to say a trend, but there's
a push towards financialindependence within the black
community.
We've seen it with a I don'tknow if I can say her name, but
(22:01):
a very famous tennis playerwho's partnered up with a
certain organization about acertain color kind of purse.
So we'll leave it.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I don't know why you can't say it.
I don't know why I can't say iteither.
I feel like people should knowabout this.
Sure.
There's no reason we're notgetting paid for it.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
This is not an ad.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
It's not sponsored, but Serena Williams has
partnered with a company forfinancial independence called
the purple purse I think is whatit's called.
So there's definitely thatawakening of we've got to be,
we've got to find our way tofinancial independence because
nobody else is going to look outfor us to do that right.
(22:45):
And that's even I mean even ifyou look at generations that are
coming out of college, I meanyou look at this right, the
housing market is bonkers, likeyou can't afford a house coming
out of school unless you're,unless you're really super lucky
or you've inherited it orsomething right.
(23:07):
So most people are going intogoing to look at, you know,
apartments with friends andthings like that.
That's only sustainable for solong.
And you know, I think this isso important.
I don't know, I don't know whatyour age, demographic is right,
but I don't know if you seelike younger people coming out
(23:30):
saying like, hey, look, I coulduse a leg up until I get myself
settled, or you know if it's, ifit's wide ranging or things
like that.
But I would imagine this islike this is transformational.
Yeah, that's the point that'sreally to have a transform
people's lives.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
You know, and and and part of this.
I you touched on the housingpart of it.
So, there's a tool that I havein here, where you know, you
hear this argument where peoplesay oh, if you rent, you throw
away money.
Right, and I disagree with thatright, because not every
situation let me throw awaymoney, and so I designed this,
(24:10):
this calculator that shows youif you plug it in, if you get
your numbers, you know from areliable source and plug these
numbers in, it indicates whetheryou should rent or whether you
should buy, right, it breaks itdown for you.
There's a reason why.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Right, so that, so that way you're well informed,
versus saying, oh, let me, youknow, borrow this down payment
and get a house that I canbarely afford.
Right, Because you don't seethe long term ramifications of
that right, and so so we havethe.
I try to be as thoughtful aspossible, whether you are just
out of, you know, college, or ifyou are middle age, you know,
(24:51):
or you're near retirement, youknow where.
I think this could help a lotof different people, regardless
of what age range you're in, andit's just a matter of making
sure that it's easy tounderstand and easy to use.
And I think that's the biggestthing, because one thing I
learned along the way is aboutfinancial trauma, right, and it
(25:13):
didn't dawn on me until I wasbuilding this thing where how
you engage with your family orthose around you when they came
to money will determine how youview it right.
And so I remember growing up andI heard this, this phrase, so
(25:33):
often, and it's just like youknow, you say like, hey, how's
it going?
And somebody will say, oh, I'mjust a poor black man trying to
make it right and you didn'tthink anything of it, right?
But but now when you start tolike understand, like you hit
this over and over, so thatmeans that this person is
struggling, he's poor and he'sbarely making it right and so,
(25:57):
and so it doesn't dawn on youbut that's just been planted
right.
And so now when you go home tolike I'm gonna cut back on this,
or we can't, you know, buy this, or we have to cancel this,
whatever it might be right,You're not giving the full
context, but you're seeing where, every time you turn around,
you can't afford some right.
(26:19):
So, to make it more real, Igrew up with my grandpayers and
they grew up in the GreatDepression, right, my granddad
hated things.
Okay, right yeah everything wasunder the mattress, right, and
so I understand, and so I didn'tthink it impacted me, right,
(26:41):
until I got older, right, and Iwould always have money in the
house.
They just thought that everyonehad money in the house right.
Yeah, not that much money right.
Right and so so my grandfather,he had this.
This whole money doesn't growon trees each.
(27:01):
I'm not gonna give it to you,but I memorized it because I've
heard it so often.
And it's like, if you go to himand you like, hey, can I borrow
$10?
And it's like, oh, when does itgrow on trees?
I have to fix income, blah,blah, blah.
Right, so now, when you put allthis stuff together, you just
see limitation, right, and it'slike, oh, limitation, like, and
(27:23):
everyone around you was sayingthis so now you have your first
job out of high school orcollege.
What do you think is about tohappen?
Right, so you don't have soundmoney principles, right, you're
lacking in this financialliteracy space.
So you're going to end up inthis space where, eventually,
you will be a court.
(27:47):
Right, you will have financialissues to where money is tight
always, and so that doesn'tmatter if you get a raise or
promotion or whatever, right,you have bad money habits, right
, and so you're just gonna havemore if you make more money.
So you see this a lot in theblack community, and so so me
(28:10):
moving in this direction isgeared towards transforming
folks, transforming how theyview and transforming their
lives.
Transforming, you know a lot ofdifferent things, and the part
of this tool that that I builtin, there's a time component to
it, right, and the reason that'simportant because you can this
all the time time is money.
I disagree with that.
Right Now you can, you canalways get money back.
(28:33):
You can never get your timeback, right?
So I need people to startthinking.
You know about time differentlyand how you spend your time.
So, if you understand where youare with the next from the
financial spectrum, if you havesound financial principles,
right Now you're seeing yourtime differently, differently,
(28:54):
right?
So am I spending my time wiselyat this job?
That's not paying me well,right, they're gonna go
somewhere else.
Do I have enough time to get asecond job?
And can the second job, youknow, pay me enough to pay off
ex debt?
Right?
You know, I always tell peoplelike, if you have a second job
(29:16):
or you're working overtime andyou live off of that, you will
forever have a need for overtimeand you will forever have a
second job.
Right, because you can't, youcan't not get off of that
hamster wheel, right and so andso now you have a lot of people
of color who are saying I wantto start a business?
(29:36):
Right, and that's very noble,right.
Where's the time coming from?
Where's it coming from?
Right, because when you breakit down, that's just keep
everything.
You know something 24 hours,eight for work, eight for sleep,
eight for life Right.
So if you're working overtimethat's just say four hours a day
, that's 12 hours you're gonnapull that extra time from
(30:00):
somewhere sleep or life right.
And so now things start to get alittle hairy at this point.
Right, because if not gettingenough sleep, you got health
issues.
If you, if you're not spendingthe proper amount of time in
life and life is with family,with friends, running errands,
keeping your appointments,whatever things get out of
(30:20):
control in that space, right.
So there has to be a properbalance.
So now this tool helps you lookat time differently.
Do I have enough time to starta business?
If you do, great.
Now let's move to the moneyside.
Do I have enough money?
No, Okay, great.
So now you don't start abusiness, but you have time.
(30:41):
So how can you get more money?
Maybe get another job or maybe,you know, do something else.
I don't know, but it forces youto now think differently, right
.
And so that's the wholetransformative piece of it.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Yeah, I mean it's incredible how much the mind and
the concepts we have createdand brought down from
generations even right, likeyou're talking about, do impact
us.
What were we, I was, I mean,well, I had a whole conversation
(31:17):
recently on generational trauma, but also on systemic trauma.
Like there's just so much thatplays a role in these stories we
hear in our heads that are true, right, they are the truth, and
if we don't also address that,then things don't actually ever
change.
I just, I think that is sooften left out.
(31:39):
I mean, look, I'm also I'm amath major, so, and you know,
obviously worked in tech for along time and I feel like
sometimes it's like it's so it'sjust about the numbers.
Like, if you just go to a CPAor whatever, it's just about the
numbers.
I feel like there's a wholeconversation that is left out
(32:00):
from this and you're bringing areally holistic approach to that
understanding, which is such anamazing opportunity for people
and a whole new way of reallyunderstanding themselves,
understanding their families,understanding the systems that
they live in.
And then one of the things thatI've been really focused on is
(32:24):
how do we become those creatorsthen in our own world, right,
how do we then take that stepinto?
Well, what do I want this to be?
How, how I'm not just stuck inthese patterns, now I am
conscious, it is the forefrontof my mind.
What are the decisions I nowmake going forward to actually
(32:44):
change that?
And I just think that that's somuch of what you're bringing
into this, and I think it's justso incredible.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Yeah, I totally agree with that.
You know, I just think that thenumbers tell a story, right.
And so what story are yournumbers telling you?
And I think for too long,people have not viewed their
personal numbers in that manner,right, no one ever wants to say
(33:14):
that they're broke or they'repoor, right, so there's a stigma
attached to it, but it's okay,right, it's okay, you are where
you are and my goal is to getpeople to break that.
Right, like, this is where youare, but it doesn't mean you
have to stay there.
So what story is your numbertelling you?
(33:37):
Or your number's telling you?
And I think this is going to beso important and it helps
people embrace the presentversus so many people of color
that live in the future.
Right, if I can just get this,if I can just flip that, if I
can just, and it's like, yeah,but you're not laying the proper
(34:00):
foundation, right, and thatstory just doesn't start with
what you are Like I can talkabout.
It goes back, you know, ageneration or two or three or
whatever.
Right, and so the goal is toreally reach as many people as
possible, but to be thoughtfulabout it.
You know, like, I don't wantthis to be this thing where it's
(34:21):
just like come on, come on, youknow, but I want to be focused
to where people understand thatthis is serious.
Because you hear, in the blackcommunity, where you know, we
talk about, like, buildinggenerational wealth, right?
So?
And I don't think that a lot ofus understand what that really
(34:41):
means and how much effort ittakes to get to that point, and
we think that we can get to apoint of building that
generational wealth in onegeneration, and most times, more
times than not, that's notrealistic, right.
But it doesn't mean you can'tget a foundation for the next
generation to add on to that,right.
If you know what your plan isand most of us don't have a plan
(35:03):
, you know we just say, well,I'm just going to save, okay,
that's great, but what else?
Right.
And so there are four ways, youknow, to pretty much build
wealth right, legal, right,legal ways to build wealth right
.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
One is real estate.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
One is real estate, one is life insurance, the other
is starting a business and thelast one is investment.
Right, just four ways, so it'snot complicated, right?
You have to understand justthat basic thing to just move
forward, right, and so justgetting back to the basics and
(35:44):
meeting people where they areand just come on from there, and
also just correcting badinformation, you know, just like
I remember one of the peoplesaying you're always going to
have debt, so go ahead and maxthat credit card out.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
All right, right no.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
And you're like everyone has debt.
Just go ahead and max out this$10,000 credit card that I don't
have any way of paying back,you know.
And it's just like, and it justgoes on and on and it's and
it's saying oh, that's good debtbecause it builds your credit.
It may be, but that's not thewhole picture, right?
So yeah, it's just a lot of badinformation that's floating
(36:28):
around out there.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Sure, sure.
And that's the other thing too.
Is that you don't see, likeit'll take you 84 years, if you
make the minimum payment, to paythis off, right?
You're not going to be thereLike that's no fun, right?
So it's just a wow yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I remember I'll say this quick little story.
You know, in college they giveeveryone these credit cards.
You know, you sign for thiscredit card and build your
credit and it was like $500.
Like you know, I'll pay thisback Again, not realizing how
much 500 is, and I don't have ameans to pay it back.
Right, you know so.
But you figured something tocome up, or you can figure it
(37:10):
out, Right, and nothing evercame up, and so I maxed it out,
and I maxed it out in one of themost embarrassing ways.
I came home from a break andsomeone take my little brother
shop, Right, you know.
So we went to the store and Iwas like what do you want?
He's like anything.
I'm like, yeah, I can't getanything.
I have a t-shirt, a graphicshort, you know.
(37:31):
I said you want shoes, yeah, Iwant shoes, I need graph shoes.
And they were like sir, thiscar has been declined.
I'm like, shh, I have money onthis car.
Can you swipe it again?
Right, yeah, Just swipe ittwice, bro.
And it's still the same thing.
And my brother cried.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
So that's when I realized like, oh, there's a
limit to this, so fast forward,I'm buying my first house
because I didn't pay it back,right, and because you know
who's going to make me pay itback, right.
So go to buy my first house andthey pull credit and they're
like hey, you have this creditcard where you owe money.
(38:14):
I'm like what credit card?
And they told me what it wasand I'm like, yes, $500.
Nope, 1750.
Right, 1750.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I'm like no, it's a $500.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Didn't even think about interest, right, and so,
yeah, it's like paying it back.
So again, no one told me aboutthis Right, no one taught me
this, no one in my family, noone at the school, no one Right.
So, and I'm not lucky.
So imagine, you know, peoplehave it worse.
So Hmm.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I just want it's.
It's so cool to hear all thedifferent things and the
continuous iteration of growththat you have through all of
this and I think that's justamazing and wonderful.
And I kind of want to just tapinto your mind, maybe once a
quarter now, to see where you'regoing, because I mean, it's
(39:12):
just fascinating and amazing andI guarantee in another six
months you're going to be doingsomething bigger, greater and
more impactful, like I justthink it's a wonderful gift you
have.
Is that something you've?
Is that just a piece of youlike how do you, how do you do
that?
You like I mean, I kind of doit also.
(39:34):
So I'm like this is super funand I see, I see you.
But is that?
Is that always sort of the waythat you thought about things?
Like I can see the impact thatyou also want to make and that
doesn't just come from I don'tknow.
That comes from somethingreally deep within you too.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah, it's funny because I so my grandmother, you
know, like all parents, theyask what it would be when you
grow up.
You know that type of thing.
So I remember one day in myroom they asked me that question
like when you're going to dowhen you become an adult?
I was like I'm not going tohelp people, you know.
And she's like what does thatmean?
(40:11):
I'm not going to help people?
Right, and that was my answer,right, and that always stuck
with me.
So, fast forward, I'm at thisone job and start to my boss and
we don't really do arelationship and she has the
same question and this is, likeyou know, before I went to down
this path and I just want tohelp people.
(40:32):
I don't know, I don't know whatit is, I don't know what my
call about.
She's going to help people andalong the way I've always helped
people, right.
It was just, you know, helpingwith this, helping with that,
whatever, right.
And so she was like for futurereference, you have to define
what this help looks like, right.
And so I didn't know how todefine it, you know.
(40:54):
So I struggle, you know, alongthe way, and then it hit me
right where the help I want togive people.
I want to, you know, put themin a better situation in life,
right, whether it's, you know,having a conversation, you know,
helping them financially, youknow, helping them find a job or
whatever it might be.
I just want to see people getto a better place, to where that
(41:17):
burden that they were carryingjust, you know, disappears.
You know.
And so numbers I can do numbersall day, right, and so I had to
figure out how can I leveragemy strengths, my talents, to
help people in a dynamic waythat lessens their burden, you
(41:40):
know.
And so this is just one of oneof the things, and you know, and
this is why you know, where Iam now working in government
appeals to me so much, right,you know where I'm helping
people, even though I'm on thebackside of things.
I'm in transformation, right,I'm doing these amazing projects
(42:01):
, but I see the impact that ithas in the lives of everyday
people.
I'm like, wow, this is prettycool, right, and so, you know,
that's why it's just sofulfilling to just kind of be in
this role and doing what I'mdoing.
You know, which I'm passionateabout, which is like
transformation, modernization,process improvement, things like
that, right, so, so, yes, it'sall you know tied together can I
(42:25):
?
Speaker 2 (42:25):
just I just want to say something really quickly
here and you all can disagreewith me and that's very fine,
that, boss, I just call bullshiton some of that.
I, you know, everyone's likeeveryone's.
You know you have to definewhat it is, what it is.
What exactly is that you want?
What's the?
What is the one position thatyou're going to be for the rest
(42:47):
of your life?
Like you should be aiming atthat, like no, I don't agree
with that at all, becausesometimes it takes life
experiences to go through to beable to understand and define
that later on.
I think it takes your path todefine the path as as you move
along it.
Sorry, I just I just get sotired of people being like,
especially with young people,you're like we should know.
(43:09):
Like, what are you aiming for?
I don't know yet, like I don'teven know.
I haven't even like lived lifeenough to know that.
Like, leave that open for me alittle bit right so.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
I'm not going to acquire.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Let the church say amen yeah no, I agree with that
same person would have said butlet's think outside the box.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Oh my god, but you want me to be in a box, but I
got you, okay, cool exactly yeahyeah, no, I totally agree with
that, because this is gonnasound crazy the world is this
big right.
There's a lot of people, a lotof opportunity, a lot of things
to explore, a lot of things tosee and to say I'm gonna be this
(43:53):
one thing right here, from thetime I realized I want to be
that thing until the time I die.
Right, that one thing right now, that's what you really want
and you, you're short have thatright but the vast majority of
us, it doesn't happen that way.
Right, like, how many times havewe been in a working
environment where we talk topeople about, hey, what's your
(44:14):
degree in?
And here we are working for aninsurance company?
Right, that's just like how dowe get here?
Right, yeah, my degree is inmathematics, my degree is in you
know whatever.
Right, it's just like, yeah,but we're, we're an insurance
you know, so I just think thatthat's what makes life so great.
(44:36):
You know where you wake up andyou say you know what?
I'm gonna quit this insurancejob.
I'm gonna do this thing overhere, like start a part of the
podcast, right and so, and noone saw that one come in.
And this is when everyone callsyou crazy, like you must be
crazy.
We know about starting thepodcast, who's doing that now,
and it's just right exactly.
(44:59):
But before you know, it is openup doors and it's taken off or
whatever it might be, or itmight even teach you about
yourself, right, but that's thegood life, you know, you did you
down one road and, like thisother road looks pretty
interesting to go over here,right, and just do it.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
So yeah, yeah and I mean I talked.
Sorry, go on, cheryl, you goahead you guys.
Oh no, I was gonna say you know,we.
I feel like a lot of well again.
I work in the leadership spacetoo.
A lot of leaders lead in a anindustrial revolution when we
are living in the AI revolution.
It's a completely differentworld and you are not just going
(45:35):
to follow one ladder towhatever it is like.
New is continuously opening upand different ways of exploring
business and the world changeconstantly and to have that
expectation of somebody is justliving in a very old way of of
(45:57):
understanding business in myperspective.
Yep.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
I agree, okay, so I want to talk Dwayne math a
little bit.
Right, because you broke.
You broke up life into threeeight hour segments, right.
So there's, you know, we hearabout it all the time there's
boy math, there's girl math,there's dog math, there's cat
math but now there's Dwayne math, right, so Dwayne math also
includes eight hours of life.
(46:23):
So how do you spend that portionof the math, dwayne?
Because we talked a little bitabout hiking, we talked a little
bit about photography, but, um,like what, what is your ideal?
Eight hours of life, like, whatdoes that look like?
Speaker 1 (46:39):
no man now yeah.
I'll be 50 this year, so I haveto preserve my limbs, you know,
and so I'm spending time in,you know, physical therapy
trying to get my body backrealign.
(47:00):
Uh, going to the chiropractor.
So it's like, yeah, sometimesgetting all hurts, you know so
uh, so, but yeah, so I'm doingthat.
But, um, um, working on thisbusiness, um, you know, I'll try
to go hiking here and therewhen I can.
Um, I mentor a few people,which I really enjoy, and so
(47:24):
that takes quite a bit of mytime.
Um, you know, learning about afew different things, so it just
depends.
You know, like, whatever freetime I have, it's, you know, you
know working, you know family,and then, you know, working on
this business and whatever otherfree time I have, it's.
You know I have to be verysmart about that and, plus, it
(47:47):
just depends on if I even feellike it, and I think that's one
of the the the beautiful thingsof getting older.
I don't feel like doinganything.
Who's gonna make me right?
Right, just take a nap today,and you know that's my day, you
know so so yes, it just dependsand you know, um, like I said,
(48:08):
I'm gonna, you know, get back tohiking this year.
You might really get back intoit, and that's one thing I do
miss, um you know, since I'veinjured my back and all that fun
stuff, you know.
So I'm looking forward togetting back to it.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
Where's your favorite place to hike?
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Oh man, the Pacific Northwest actually.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
I was just gonna say you should come out here, I live
in Spokane.
Well, I'll cut that out.
I live in Spokane, so like youshould, oh nice.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Trust me, I wouldn't get back out there.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Yeah, I love it out there.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
I mean Cuddy Olympics and the Cascades, and I mean
you can hit up there, Rocky likeit's just incredible.
Have you gone to the hoe Likeanyway?
Speaker 1 (48:51):
sorry, there's just so much, no, no, go ahead.
Yeah, no, I agree, like yourexcitement is how I feel about
it.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
It is just.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
I tell people all the time, like, if you enjoy the
outdoors and you like naturalraw beauty, there's nothing
coming close to PacificNorthwest.
It is just amazing.
And you're out on the Easternpart.
I was out on the Western part,that's right, that's right,
that's right.
Seattle, yeah, in a little towncalled Stilicum.
(49:20):
Washington, yeah, around thePuget Sound.
That was amazing because whereI lived at the time it was like
right on the street from thePuget Sound and so every winter
the seals would come in and eatthemselves on the shore, and it
was nice on the daytime, thennight they'll still start to
part.
(49:40):
This was definitely so, butoverall that's been my favorite
place to hike.
Texas comes in a close second.
I was shocked that they havesome good trails out in Texas.
I discovered a dinosaurfootprint out in Texas, oh cool.
(50:01):
So, yeah, yep, I was up on thisridge and I happened to look
down and like what is that Right?
So I hike all the way down andsplash out the water and lo and
behold, a dinosaur footprint.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
Yeah, so it was pretty cool.
That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Yeah.
So now my goal is to hike Likewhat is that?
The Oregon Trail.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Oh, that'd be cool yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Yeah, I have to build the courage for that one.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Sure, don't get this into a lot.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Sorry, yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
You know you're right.
Oh my goodness, See, Cheryl nowyou need to come out.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
You have to come out to the.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Pacific.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Northwest because it's totally worth it and
there's just so many cool places.
We actually my sister'sbachelorette party last year
because we're in our late 30s,not in our 20s anymore for
bachelorette parties we went toMount Rainier National Park and
stayed there and did some hiking, so it was amazing.
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah, yeah, I got this picture of Mount Rainier.
I was out hiking.
It was freezing cold.
I don't know what I was hikingthat day, but it's time to give
it a go.
And so Mount Rainier is in thebackground and there's this
bridge that at the right angle.
If you look at it, it lookslike the bridge is going
directly into Mount Rainier, andso I was like, let me go back
(51:27):
and get the camera and get thispicture.
And so I had to walk acrossthis bridge and it was like a
thin layer of ice and I didn'tsee it.
And I go back and, legs up inthe air, my hand is clutching
the rail.
Oh no, I'm probably sure myhand pretty still on that wooden
rail because I squeezed it sohard.
(51:48):
Luckily, I didn't fallcompletely down, but I went back
and got the camera and took thepicture and I came out quite
amazing.
So I entered into this contestand it came in second or third.
Oh, wow, awesome, yeah, so Iguess it was all worth it.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Totally, yeah, exactly.
Oh, my gosh.
Well, you let me know if you'recoming out, because I love to
yeah, for sure, for sure, gohiking.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Actually, I would take a trip out there.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Yeah, I went hiking up, was it Cougar Mountain to go
paragliding off the side of it?
So that was Cheryl, sorry, butthen you see, I saw the Olympics
, I saw the Cascades.
It was like a clear enough dayto see Rainier.
It was just incredible.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
That's a hard pass for me.
That's a hard pass, I willnever do it again.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
Never do it again.
Always want to have done itonce.
So that's what I did, Anyway,but the hike you hike up to it
and stuff too.
There's a lot of contemplationthat goes on and potentially
turning back, but still made itup to the top.
So anyway, it was wonderful.
So, Dwayne, we are alreadyhitting the hour here which, for
(53:06):
us, this just happens.
It's so much fun talking withpeople.
What we love for people to dois be able to find you.
So what is the best place that,if they're looking to get in
contact with you with the workthat you're doing, or just to
connect to learn more, whereshould they go?
Speaker 1 (53:25):
I am only on LinkedIn , so you can find me under my
name D-E-W-A-Y-N-E-G-O-R-D-O-N.
So there's plenty of DwayneGordon's out there.
So find the one that works forthe city of Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
There you go, fair enough, oh my goodness, I really
I love your life post where weworked together, and I wish you
nothing but the best andcontinue successes.
I appreciate that you andEileen loved to hike.
(54:04):
As I've told people Last year,I do one thing that scares me
every year and last year I did acouple of things that scared me
.
This one was doing a 5K mud run.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Oh nice.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
You have to understand that the longest walk
I've taken in three years wasdown to my mailbox and back.
So this was absolutely bananas.
I mean, I was caked in mud, Iwas tired, and they tell you
they're like if you raise yourhands in the air, we think
you're dancing.
Do this Like when you crossyour arms?
And about mile one in my brain,my brain was going cross the
(54:41):
arms, man cross the arms, and Ijust I so appreciate that you
found joy in hiking and findingthat particular piece peaceful
to you.
So I'm so glad that it's notall about the math and that your
(55:03):
Dwayne math includes livinglife.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
So, yeah, you have to have that balance For sure, for
sure.
Speaker 3 (55:10):
Yeah, all right, folks, we'll listen again.
Reach out to Dwayne Wharton onLinkedIn and we'll put it into
our socials, just so that peoplehave it there.
But on behalf of my lovelyco-host, eileen Grimes, and me,
cheryl Kansas-Hafio, this closesout our episode of you.
Only Go Once, dwayne.
(55:32):
It was a pleasure, thank you,thank you, I really enjoyed it.
It was so awesome.
And then, folks, until nexttime.
We'll talk to you later, bye.
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