May 28, 2024 • 56 mins
Every once in a while, you meet someone who seems to live in perfect harmony with their calling. That's the impression Ariane and Jackie Peveto, the twin forces behind Ground Crew Editorial, leave with you. As curators of the written word, their story arcs from the structured realm of academia to the free-flowing skies of creative literature. In our latest episode, the Peveto's share their experiences editing works that range from New York Times bestsellers to their own enthralling young adult and middle grade novels. Their venture's emblem, a paper airplane, symbolizes the trajectory of stories they meticulously fine-tune, ensuring they soar to their maximum potential.
Reflecting on their upbringing in a military family, Ariane and Jackie recount how the stability they found in Texas and Colorado, peppered with travels to England and Scotland, shaped their worldview and relationship as twins. The childhood snapshot in front of Oxford University not only prefigured their scholarly pursuits but also amplified a shared love for Japan and cultural immersion that resonates through their work. Our conversation explores how these experiences foster a global understanding—a cornerstone in the building blocks of their storytelling and editorial prowess.
Collaboration and companionship are like the twin engines propelling creativity and adventure, a theme echoed in this episode. The sisters illuminate how their bond amplifies their bravery and allows for a spectrum of creativity that is perhaps unattainable in solitude. Additionally, we touch on the importance of fostering creativity without succumbing to burnout, emphasizing the need for writers to find solace and inspiration beyond their workstations. Our talk underscores the importance of sustaining a creative life amidst the pressures of social media and the advent of AI, encouraging writers to cherish the love of storytelling and the delight it brings into the lives of both authors and readers. Join us for an uplifting exploration of what it means to support each other, nurture creativity, and celebrate the joy of shared narratives.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Jackie Pivoteau.
I hope when you look back atyour life you're glad you did
things that seemed too hard foryou to handle, because you only
go once.
Hi, I'm Ariane Pivoteau.
I hope when you look back atyour life you will have taken
the time to dig deeply intoideas and cultivate a craft,
whatever you have a passion for,because you only go once hello
(00:32):
friends, welcome to anotherepisode of you only go once.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I'm here with my wonderful co-host show, cantafio
.
I'm aileen grimes and you arein for a treat tonight.
Uh, here on you only go once,the podcast, where we explore
stories around the limited timewe have on this earth to create
a fully layered life.
We're doing this a little bitdifferent tonight because we're
so lucky to actually have twoguests with us and we'll get to
learn a little bit more abouttheir stories as we introduce
(00:56):
them.
But I will introduce our firstguest.
Ariane Pébateau is a co-founderof Ground Crew Editorial, along
with her twin sister, jackiePébateau.
Arianne is a writer and editorwho enjoys helping others bring
their stories and ideas to life.
She started out as a writingtutor and then taught courses in
composition and rhetoric forcollege students, after making
(01:19):
the very natural step from thereto become an editor.
She's had the privilege ofworking on a wide variety of
projects, like one of New YorkTimes bestselling author, dave
Asprey's book and a text forBiola University, as well as
dozens of independent clientswith everything from picture
books to memoir, young adultnovels to adult sci-fi.
Ariane is a frequent presenterat SCBWI Rocky Mountain Chapter
(01:42):
Connect events and she was alsoa faculty speaker for the RMC's
Letters and Lines Conference in2022.
Her work has been published inseveral places and Ariane has
received awards in short storyand poetry from a local writers'
guild and was nominated for theGolden Pen Award at the RMC
SCBWI 2020 Fall Conference.
(02:03):
Currently, arianne is pursuingpublication for her YA novels
the Words we Know and Love, aContemporary Fantasy and Still
Dreaming Sci-Fi Fantasy Blend.
Aside from writing and editing,arianne keeps busy enough as a
costume seamstress, baker, cakedecorator, scrapbooker, artist
and paper aficionado Amazing, Ican't wait to dive in.
(02:26):
I'm going to let Cheryl nowintroduce our next guest.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Thanks, eileen.
Hi Ariane, all right, so I getthe privilege of introducing
Jackie Pivito.
She's the other co-founder ofGround Crew Editorial.
She and her twin sister havebeen telling and talking about
stories for as long as they canremember.
Jackie is a passionate writer,editor, artist and enthusiast
(02:54):
for anything involvingimagination and paper.
Her love of story has beencultivated as much by her
academic background as it has bytravel and a never-ending pile
of library books.
There are few things Jackieloves more than talking about
words.
Before becoming a freelanceeditor, jackie was a
(03:15):
university-level tutor forseveral years and taught ESL.
Now she has the privilege ofcollaborating with writers at
all stages of the writingprocess and writing journey.
As a writer and reader, herpassion is children's literature
, particularly middle grade andyoung adult, but Jackie always
has ears for a well-told storyin any genre.
She's currently querying amiddle grade fantasy novel that
(03:36):
features a witch, a highwaymanand a talking cat.
Jackie is also revising a youngadult alternate history of the
mid-1800s.
Jackie's work has beenpublished in the Garbanzo
Literary Journal Tales to GoYarn and Go Overseas.
Jackie, welcome, ariane welcome.
(03:57):
We're so thrilled to have youhere.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Thank you, it's great to be here.
I'm really excited to have thischat.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yes.
So how we all came to know eachother was I was out on yet
again my favorite space,facebook, in the women's writers
group that is out there, and Isaid, hey, does anybody know
editors for a children's book?
(04:24):
And Jackie happened to be onthere and it was a right place,
right time.
And Jackie said you, theprofessionalism, the enthusiasm
(04:48):
for the children's book ideathat I had, along with the
development letter that cameafterwards, which was right on
point, told me everything Ineeded to fix and consider and
to sit in the seat of the bookas though I was a child reading
the book, has been instrumental.
(05:10):
So that's how we got to knowone another.
And a little bit about GroundCrew Editorial.
One of the most charming thingsabout their website is that
it's a paper airplane, the logo,which I found just completely
awesome just because of all ofyour references to flying and
(05:33):
all that.
So I kind of want to start itthere.
That's my long-winded way ofgetting to tell us about the
concept around the paperairplane and your connection to
flight and all the differentreferences to the ground crew
items that you list.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Where to start.
One of the things that I guessis important background
information.
We do come from an Air Forcefamily, so a love of aircraft
and other things has kind ofbeen I don't know baked in
Definitely, but one of thethings that has always struck me
as important but little knownfact.
(06:17):
So for high-performanceaircraft it takes about roughly
17 hours of maintenance forevery hour of flying.
Whoa.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
It seems disproportionate, because we
really only pay attention toseeing jets in flight doing
their thing, but behind thescenes there's a ton of work to
make sure that those airplanescan keep flying.
And it seemed like a reallynatural metaphor to describe
what editorial work does forwriters.
(06:54):
And writers do so much work thatreaders never see, especially
when you've got that book inyour hands and if you're a
really fast reader, it can takeyou just a handful of hours for
picture books.
It's work on stories, and so wefelt pretty strongly about that
(07:27):
as a metaphor that we wanted totake on, because it's important
work, it's good work and it allhas to do with that excellence
you're working towards and thecraftsmanship of that also that
it's not a bad thing that ittakes that much time, it's just
it's necessary, and but alsothat kind of that lovely natural
(07:49):
separation that we can have allthe skills like the, the
industry knowledge, the keepingup with what the market
expectations are and trends andstyle guides and all of that
technical knowledge, and writerscan just do what they're really
good at and fly the plane andessentially keep the writing
forward, and we can keep up withthe tightening down everything
(08:09):
and making sure all of thosethings are good to go.
So we'd had the idea in ourheads for a long time of we've
been independent editors for awhile, but just last year joined
forces and we thought we'd beenthinking about this name for a
long time, so it just seemednatural that that's what we
would go for.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I love that.
I know that fact right now.
I just thank you for puttingthat in my back pocket and I'm
gonna tell my son later becausehe will love it.
He's all he's like Mr Engineerhimself and so knowing that will
be really cool for him.
And it's so true.
I mean the amount that and,like I'll just you know, talking
from the editing side, I amjust in awe of the work that
(08:53):
happens there.
And when you I mean you know,when you first, if someone's
first exploring writing a book,right, that's not maybe
necessarily one of the thingsthat they think about right,
like, I can edit it, I'm justgoing to go through, and you
know I'm going to go my second,maybe third, and then we're good
to go.
There's so much that goes intoit and having a good editor can
truly make or break a book.
(09:15):
Right, if you, if you don'tcome in and have someone really
go through, you know, as avoracious reader myself or well,
not as much after I've had kidsbecause I feel like I don't
have any time but loved readinggrowing up but, like you see, a
book that's poorly edited, it'slike this is so much, this is
too hard to get through and itjust it makes all the difference
(09:35):
in the world.
So I love, love that metaphoraround the ground crew, because
it's so true, especially onceyou've been in the publication
space like, oh my god, there'sjust, there are so many pieces
and parts that come into justthis one physical object.
Or even, you know, if youlisten to audiobooks, either way
(09:58):
, there's still, there's so muchthat happens before it gets
into the hands of somebody.
So you're absolutely right andthank you for editing, because
Cheryl knows it is not my strongsuit ever at all.
I'm like where do periods go?
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Well, and another thing too, is, if the editor's
doing their job right, thereader isn't thinking about that
at all, those mechanics in thebackground.
You're only paying attention tothe story, and so I also like
that that what we do, becausethe focus really should be on
this is the author's work andthis is their story, and you
shouldn't have any of those.
You're not thinking, wow,mechanic, really, that's making
(10:37):
some noise.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, so, but yeah, that's important to us so, um,
but yeah, yeah, that's importantto us.
Yeah, definitely so.
You said you, so you joinedforces about a year ago together
.
What sort of was the final?
Like yes, this obviously justmakes sense.
We should be doing thistogether now.
Was there anything that wassort of that catalyst, or just
(11:00):
it's been falling into place forso long?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
yeah, yeah, like it's been a gradual process.
But both of us have worked fora lot of places where they kind
of tell us how to work and justthe nature of freelance editing.
A lot of them are agencies butyou never get to talk to the
authors.
So it's just a manuscriptarrives, you do the best you can
but there's no conversation.
So you send it back with anedit and you hope it was useful
(11:24):
and you, but you never get tohear and sometimes you can find
them out in the wild later andsort of think, oh good, you got
it out there.
But there's just something sovaluable that we found just in
the few instances when we wouldoccasionally take on our own and
we just thought I love doingthis, I love being able to talk
to the people I'm working withand helping.
That be a more personalexperience and making sure
(11:46):
they're getting what they needrather than just a flat one size
fits all kind of thing based onthe requirements and both of us
.
You'll find every editor has atotally different preference for
how they work and what theyenjoy doing, but I think it
comes from our tutoring teachingbackground.
But I personally really lovethat interaction with writers,
(12:10):
and writing can be so lonely.
A lot of writers don't havecommunities that they belong to,
they don't have critiquepartners, or they've tried
partners, but they didn't workout for some reason.
So I feel like thatrelationship being I mean even
just cheering somebody onthrough the writing process
that's it's very personal, andso we we wanted to create
(12:31):
something that would allow us tooffer that more personal
relationship and support.
Especially, I mean, you canmeet a lot of people online like
, yeah, and that's beenbrilliant.
But having our own kind ofstriking out on our own to
allows us to to build ourprocesses the way we like and to
(12:55):
give authors that opportunity.
And some some don't need it asmuch and we leave that up to
them.
But if they want to have aconversation, if they need
somebody they just can depend onlike hey, I have a question, we
want to.
That up to them.
But if they want to have aconversation, if they need
somebody that just can depend onlike hey, I have a question we
want to be there for them.
So that's important to us andthat was a pretty big factor in
deciding to start our own firm.
(13:17):
But I think, like Arianne wassaying, I think it comes back to
our tutoring background.
When we started, both of uswere peer tutors, so we were
still students at the time.
So I think it kind of has that.
Well, we're writers too, butwe're editors, and so I feel
like this is just anotherevolution of that same job of
like.
I know exactly what you'retalking about because I've been
(13:38):
there.
The dark night of themanuscript.
Things don't seem to be makingsense and I really love being
able to share that as much aspossible with writers who may
not have that anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, absolutely Go on, Cheryl.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
No, I was just going to say, and I so appreciate, so
I've worked with Jackie, so I soappreciated your authenticity
and I feel like the both of youhave that genuine authenticity.
Number one, just in general,for the love of books and number
two for really understandingthe audiences, because sometimes
(14:12):
, you know, I won't speak forall writers but sometimes for me
.
Like I'm thinking like okay,this is where I want this to go,
and blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
And then you, there are times,every once in a while, where you
leave the audience behind andyou are there as editors to kind
of bring us back and goremember who you're writing for.
And it's like oh yeah, and it's.
(14:33):
And it could be like one simplequestion that you've brought up
where you're like aha, and thenyou go and it's like, okay,
well, that made more sense andit makes for such a better story
.
I think I have so manyquestions because you had
brought up how flight is in yourfamily or you know, airplanes
and things like that are in yourfamily.
Did you guys have theopportunity?
(14:54):
Was it military background orwas it commercial background
that your family has?
And, you know, did you traveldifferent places?
We've talked to a couple ofpeople that are like, oh well,
you know, like our parentsalways had the travel bug, so we
just, you know, got on planesand went.
Was that your lifestyle?
(15:17):
Like, did you have a favoriteplace you traveled?
Was that your?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
lifestyle, Like did you have a favorite place you
traveled?
I know I'm asking a ton of likefire fired off questions, so
feel free to answer any one ofthose.
Well, our dad was Air Force,okay, but unlike some Air Force
families, our dad's tours werevery tame and he tried to keep
it that way.
We didn't end up anywhereexotic, okay, okay, most part.
We managed to be in texas, uh,colorado, a few times um between
(15:50):
different assignments.
Um, we ended up in mobilealabama for a little while, okay
, but mainly just texas andcolorado.
But um, outside of that not notbeing forced to move places,
but um, our, our parents um havehad given us the opportunity to
travel a few times as a familywhen we were growing up, so that
(16:12):
that has been um a great joy.
Some memories for that.
We were able to um go toEngland and Scotland Um that's
the family.
Scotland's my dream.
I highly recommend Okay,Anywhere anywhere, anywhere,
okay.
Um, but we, we both love therain.
(16:33):
So like, if you go in thesummer, be prepared it will rain
almost every day.
But if you like that's glorious,yeah, but um, but yeah it was.
It was an interesting um kindof seed that was planted early
on.
Um, uh, we were able to go acouple times and on one of those
trips, um, we ended up goingthrough oxford and, um, that's
(16:57):
just kind of a I don't know.
We, our, our dad was alwayslike, go stand in front of this
and I'll get your picture.
You know that kind of thing.
But, um, we happened to bepassing by the Oxford university
admissions office and our dadwas like, oh, just stand over
there, I'll get your picture.
You know, someday you'll gohere, and at the time it really
did seem like a really far offdream, like, oh, I would never
(17:20):
do that, and everything.
And years later we ended upboth of us were accepted as
visiting scholars to be inOxford, and so that that's
always been kind of a lovelybookend that we visited and it
was like, oh, haha, it was justa joke at the time.
And it was just sort of like,how cool would that be?
And then, yeah, yeah, onesemester it happened, yeah
(17:41):
that's awesome.
we've, uh, really been blessedto be able to travel and um, so,
uh, we ended up, um, attendingoxford for um, just a term, a
term there as scholars lived, solived in england for a time and
then, um, both of us havealways had a love for Japan, and
so that ended up being anotherplace that we were able to
(18:04):
travel and live for a time aswell.
But the two of us, just on ourown, decided we would do that.
That was our first likeinternational, on our own trip.
Yeah, so I've always lovedtraveling and getting to.
It really has been a blessingto be able to really live in
other places.
(18:24):
You get a real good feel for itwhen you're there and figuring
out where, to you know, get yourgroceries, that kind of just
knowing a place.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
That's amazing.
My son really wants to go toJapan.
He's very into anime right now,so that's like he's like and
Godzilla Like that's.
Those are his two big things.
He's like I have to go to Japanto do that, and he wants to eat
some ramen and he loves sushi.
So I'm like, well, I guess thisis just going to have to be on
our list now.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Well, I also highly recommend, and food is very
cheap, so you can have as muchsushi as you want.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Perfect, that sounds good and I'm in, I'll do it too.
I'll eat all of that stuff too.
So, um, yeah, that's incredible.
Um, so how much of all of thishave you been together and how
much have you done, things apart?
I'm just curious on the on thetwin thing, right, like, what
does that?
What does that?
(19:20):
What does that look like foryou?
And, look, I have a sister andwe live about four blocks away
from each other.
So it's, we spent a little bitof time in different places, but
really, and we have fourbrothers, so there's just so
many of us.
But you know, it was.
It's also amazingly wonderfulto have her right around the
corner and be so close to her.
(19:41):
So I not making fun of in anyway, shape or form, the bond
that exists, um, just purelycurious well, we, we've pretty
much we've done most thingstogether.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Um, as you might have guessed, we're very similar.
Um, we have a lot of interestsin common.
Um, I think in college andthings we were a little bit more
apart, but as far as the thingswe kept coming back to and I
don't know, everything justseems better when ariana's
around.
And I think a lot of thereasons we've done a lot of the
things we have is because we'vekind of like I don't know whose
(20:17):
idea it was to start, but youknow, one of us will have it,
the other one keeps it going,you know like you know and whose
idea it really was.
But, um, I know I felt reallyblessed to to have our end
through many of these things.
Um, I don't know if I wouldhave been brave enough just on
my own.
Um, especially like our, ourjapan experience first, I don't
(20:38):
know if I would have gone bymyself.
But yeah, jumping into theunknown with somebody you know
is easier, so I definitely feellike that's been something I'm
very thankful for, that I'vebeen able to do a lot of things
that even my younger I don'tknow younger self would have
(21:00):
been surprised, but it's.
It's always nice to have atraveling companion, so sure.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
In more ways, definitely.
Well, I mean, and that's, Ithink we don't.
We don't talk enough about thatin my opinion.
You know, it's always the likeI'm the solopreneur or I made it
to the top of this and I'm aCEO and whatnot, but I'm like
the actual I mean Cheryl and Ido this podcast together, right,
that's, it's so much fun to beable to do that and, like you
(21:27):
said, to be brave, she makes mebrave enough to do this.
We feed back and forth on thatand I just I think that the
connection and relationshipsthat we build with other people
can be driving forces to usdoing really great things.
And I don't think it ha, itdoesn't have to be this just I,
(21:47):
I was the only one who made itto the top, um, kind of thing.
I just I think that that thatstory is really wonderful and
needs to be celebrated more.
So I I love that hearing thatand that it's been so
encouraging for both of you tokeep going and trying new things
and doing this stuff, like wecan make each other braver and
(22:08):
we can keep pulling each otherup.
So I just want to thank you forsharing that, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
I've, especially with this business that we've
launched together.
There's so much that I'vecontinually been reminded.
If I was trying to build thismyself, it would be almost
impossible.
So there's just so much to bedone and I think naturally there
are strengths between us thatwe kind of gravitate towards
(22:36):
different things where it's likeokay, I'll tackle that if you
tackle this.
There's something reallyfreeing in that.
Where it's like this is not allon me, and we've always helped
each other with work anyway.
I guess that was another reasonwe decided to start working
together, because justespecially editorial work, a lot
of it is just working throughthe story yourself first, and
(22:56):
it's just valuable to havesomebody else who thinks very
similarly, to be like okay,here's what I think I'm seeing.
Is there a better way that Icould say this or express this
or you know what I'm saying Alot of that kind of thing before
I have to, you know, share itwith somebody else.
And so it's just beeninvaluable and we thought, well,
we're doing this anyway, andnow we can just officially give
(23:18):
that to our clients also, orjust officially say, hey, when
you work with one of us, you'rereally working with both of us
in some shape yeah, not notalways in the finished version,
the letters or anything likethat, but we're always helping
each other with each other'sclients because we just want to
do the best we can, andsometimes you need extra brain.
You just need someone else totalk to.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
And I'm sure you've experienced that yourself.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
I mean, there are times where Iget something stuck in my head
and I'll text Eileen and I'llsay what do you think about this
concept?
And she'll give me a differentperspective, or she'll give me
the oh, were you thinking this?
(24:01):
And I'm like she's in my head.
I'm good, but she actually hasthe words for them, which is
great.
So, yeah, I've seen that, I'veseen it with.
So, when we had Jim and SteveGenzano on as our guests,
they're twin brothers andthey're, you know, as the
listeners know, they're twinbrothers and, um, they're, you
know, as, as the listeners know,they're also my cousins.
(24:22):
So, um, I remember when theywere younger they had like their
own language.
They, um, you know, they wereeach other's best friends and,
um, they also have the writingbug.
So, um, uh, jim in itself haswritten five books.
I think he's on book six of amid-year middle-child fantasy
(24:49):
series, and Stephen is workingon his own book.
He's more of an artist, so he'sdone a lot of the book covers
and stuff like that.
So they just work really welltogether.
I know that there are timeswhen I get together with my
sister and I can just tell byeither a single word, or when I
(25:16):
see her face, I kind of knowexactly what she's thinking and
I know I'm impossible not to ofknow exactly what she's thinking
and I know like I'm impossiblenot to read because my face
talks for itself.
So we've, so Eileen and Iworked with somebody where they
would ask me a question.
They would ask a question tothe two of us and stare at me
because they knew my face wouldgive it away.
(25:36):
And it used to annoy me becauseI'm like I don't have to be one
of the talks all the time andthe person said, well, you don't
have to talk because of youknow the face.
And I was like, no, I get that.
But there is something to besaid about having a connection,
that where you elevate oneanother, and I've seen that too
(25:58):
with just some of the thingsthat you shared with me, jackie,
around some authors that Ishould kind of pay attention to,
and somehow I wound up down therabbit hole of the Fan Brothers
, and they've written thingslike the Night Gardener and it
Fell from the Sky and some ofthe other things that they've
(26:19):
done, and their stuff isexquisite.
And you see that and you think,yeah, that's like a unicorn
collaboration almost.
And I kind of feel like I havethat with Eileen, in that we
have a unicorn collaboration andI'm sure that's how you feel as
well.
Is that you're just lucky?
That or not just lucky?
(26:41):
You are lucky that you havethis collaboration also,
somebody that kind of gets you.
So it's all lovely, it's alllovely.
I had a question and then Ijust went off on a tangent, so
that's cool.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
You'll come back sometime.
I will, I'll come back.
I am orbiting and spiralingbecause I have a thousand
questions and they just all wentaway.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
So, eileen, if you have anything, that would be
awesome.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Oh, great, yes, definitely, yeah.
Thank you, then.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
This is the part where I throw her off the bridge
, that's good.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
No, that's totally fine I'm so.
I always like to hear a littlebit of a horror story, maybe
what's been one of the mostdifficult experiences you've had
while doing this editing work.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Well, I guess the one right off the top of my head is
from when I first got started.
I turned back and added thatwas so bad that the person the
client actually asked if I wouldaccept a lower rate.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
You should specify.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
That was your very first job my very first job.
Yes, I'm sure, and there were alot of things I did not know
about editing uh pdfs so it wasa steep learning curve and on
the whole, I think she was verygracious with me, but it was um,
I think.
I don't know, just, do you haveany?
(28:11):
There's been some interestingmanuscripts, um, yeah, out there
.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
um, I don't doubt it, there's got to be.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, I would say mine would be, I guess, a fairly
early on experience.
I think it was my firstindependent client that I had
through another firm and itturned out that this author had
been.
He had rejected about 15 to 20editors before me.
(28:39):
I did not know that at the time, and he had created a test for
the editors, which another thingthat I was brand new.
I didn't know that that wasn'treally kind of a red flag?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah right, but I did not know at the time.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
And so it was.
He had the kind of the answerkey and it turned out that, uh,
so I I did his test and I turnedit back in and he said thanks
for playing, you've failed likeall the others.
And um, I was just curiousbecause I was new, so I asked
him, like you know basicallywhat did Right you know, I'd
like to know.
And so he let me know what I hadmissed.
(29:20):
And it turned out that hisanswer key was actually wrong.
Oh, and so, so all these othereditors I think had had also,
you know, had probably passed,but didn't bring it up, didn't
ask, and so I was just thinking,oh well, I should just, you
know, let him know.
So I gave him the grammaticalexplanation for, like, this is
(29:44):
why this is actually correct,and I just thought, you know,
that would be the end of it, youknow?
Thanks, thanks so much.
Anyway, we'll part ways.
And he wrote me back and saidgreat, I'd like to hire you.
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And he wrote me back and said great, I'd like to hire
you.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Oh, wow I had not expected that result at all.
That was that and um, and so itended up being a really
interesting project um so not Iwouldn't say a horror story, but
uh, one of those like uhlearning learning experiences
that he ended up being a reallyinteresting client.
Um, uh, we kind of had a uh, aninteresting blend of
(30:22):
developmental editing, which isthat big picture like the story
work, kind of editorial work,and as well as copy editing,
which was another thing.
At the time, I thought youcould do both of those at the
same time, and now that I'm anestablished editor, it's like
absolutely not Do not do thoseat the same time, but he was a
very.
He'd been working on this bookfor about 20 years and it
(30:48):
definitely showed it was reallyoverworked.
I was the only.
I was the only, I was thesecond person to read it, so
that felt special in its own way.
But I don't think he wasactually ready for it to be
published.
He, he would continually sendme emails about word choice.
(31:08):
So for about a month or soafter the project ended I'd get
emails from him and he'd be likeoh, I just haven't been able to
sleep In this sentence sentence, do you think I should use
meandered or wandered right,that level of like, yeah,
turning over very small choices.
So I, I think I think for bothof us that was a I don't know if
(31:30):
every editor has one prettyearly on that's bad, like never
doing that again but learned alot.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
We like yeah, we like to call that character building
um a lot of character so whychildren's lit?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
hmm?
Speaker 1 (31:53):
that's a good question, I feel like for a long
time I resisted the label, butit just sort of made sense over
time because it was always whatI was writing and reading.
And even after we got too oldfor like, we kind of skipped
young adult, which is sort offunny, Like when we were the
right age for young adult.
(32:13):
We just skipped right into adultand read all of those things
and then only later came backand found there's a lot of great
stuff down in kidlit.
They have more fun, they'remore imaginative, and all the
books that I have reread wereall kidlit, and so it just sort
of made sense over time and wejust happened to make a
(32:33):
connection, actually through ourdad, Someone at his work, his
commander at the time.
His wife was an SCBWI member,and they just got to talking and
our dad was, like you shouldmeet and it was kind of like
this is kind of odd, Like okay,and we sat down with her one day
(32:54):
and she just told us all aboutthe organization and it suddenly
felt like a real thing, Like,oh, people do this.
This is a specialty and, um, itwas, it was we had.
We had been a part of otherwriter communities um and not
really felt like we fit.
Um, uh, been to differentconferences and and workshops
(33:16):
and things like that and and youkind of uh, when you tell
people that you write for kids,you often get the, the pat on
the head like, oh, it's adorableand it's so easy, right, right,
yeah, anyone who's written onewill tell you that's not true,
definitely it's not easy no, butwe're.
We were very thankful to getconnected with SCBWI, which is a
(33:38):
mouthful of an acronym.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah right, Alphabet soup.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
But the people in it are really great and it's an
organization that's prettyfocused on education.
So it's writers wanting to getbetter at their craft and
especially learning the industry.
So a lot of our experience aswriters has been we've loved
being a part of that communityand learning that, as well as
(34:07):
being editors.
Because it seemed like a prettynatural fit, I spend all my
time here reading these books,keeping up with the industry,
working on my own kid lit.
So I think what I love the mostabout kid lit is that there's
still place for things likewonder and curiosity and finding
out and asking questions, likea lot of those things that I
(34:28):
feel I'm a little sad about,because YA, right now does seem
to feel like oh you've got thatfigured out already, you know,
but I feel like there's still,there should still always be a
place for books where you canjust explore some of those
things, and things there stillcan be light and fun, and I I
would argue that's why a lot ofpeople read down.
um a lot of adults love middlegrade and young adult and
(34:52):
picture books too, because Ithink there's still a strong
desire.
I don't think a lot of peoplegrow out of it, you know like
why should you grow out ofwonder and delight and all of
those other things?
So for me it seemed like anatural fit to work on that in
my own writing, but also to workwith other kidlit authors.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Yeah, I love that I actually just started reading my
kids.
I used to read I loved MadelineO'L that I actually just
started reading my kids.
Um, I used to read, I lovedMadeline O'Lingle.
So I started reading A Wrinklein Time to them recently and
both of them are into it, right.
I'm like there's like timetravel, like there's all this,
like yeah, are they?
like oh, cool right yeah, so,yeah so, and like even like now
(35:34):
getting to kind of re-experiencethat with them and stuff, like
it's, it's definitely, yeah,it's just it's a lot of fun and
I, I mean, I certainly for me itwas this like space of
possibility, right.
Growing up, like what and I wasone of like I said I was one of
six, so like we didn't travel aton but it's like what else is,
(35:57):
what else exists in this world,what else is possible or even
impossible that becomes possible?
Right, I think that that partof you know the, the YA or
children's lit, like that's thestuff that is so incredible and
like why does it have todisappear once we get into the
adult novels?
Like I just, you know, I just Ithink it's such a special place
(36:20):
to be and it's really been funfor me to kind of revisit that
again.
So you're totally right.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons why I fell in
love with the Little Prince.
So, fun fact, when I was inhigh school, I took French and
they the teacher actually taughtus how to read and comprehend
French by using the littleprints.
And you know, the little printstalked about, you know, drawing
(36:48):
a picture, and it just lookedlike like adults kind of lost
their sense of wonder because itwould look like a line and then
a big lump and then anotherline, and it was no, that's a
snake that swallowed an elephantor something like that, you
know.
And yeah, those were the thingsthat I loved about that,
because I was like, oh yeah,that's right, that's, that's a
(37:09):
lot of fun, that's a lot of.
It's a different perspective.
Um mo Willems talked about.
I have one like his.
My favorite book of his isLeonardo the Terrible Monster
and what he learned is that kidsare very specific.
So he showed one monster thatlike showed like a lot of teeth
(37:30):
and he said something like ithas like several hundred teeth.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
And then he put 1,642 teeth.
That's it.
Just to be clear.
I've seen it, I've read itmultiple times.
My children read it.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yes, but there's a little asterisk that says not
all teeth shown, because you'dhave that one kid that was
counting.
So just to be able tounderstand that, you actually
(38:10):
introduced me to Julie Donaldsonand she's written several books
, like the Stickman and thingslike that, where it just puts a
different spin on the what-ifsand really stretching the
imagination and then creatingsomething that's a human
connection.
I think all of that is lovelyand I love that you know the
both of you focused on neverwanting to lose that sense of
wonder, because I think that'sso important Were either of your
parents storytellers at all?
Like what made you kind of gointo literature to begin with,
(38:33):
like children's that I totallyget, um, but I always like to
know like how people got starteddown the path of becoming, uh,
creatives well, we always hadstories in some form or the
other.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Um, our dad being a doctor, um, he had different
kinds of stories at dinner table, but we were homeschooled,
start with by our mom and wealways had books.
Um, we read books at lunch andwe read books together, um out
loud, as part of our curriculum,a pretty, I don't know exciting
regular field trip to thelibrary and we could get as many
(39:11):
books as we could hold and eachyeah, and just um, you know,
feel like you're really makingout like a band, you know, just
like they're really gonna let metake all these books home with
me and uh, so we always hadalways had books, always had
stories and, um, just I don'tknow, seemed like a natural
thing.
I don't actually remember when Istarted writing it.
(39:33):
Just, you remember your firststory it was on copy paper, I
know it was, but our mom keptall of those things and I
remember she gave us our firstnotebooks and that was a big
deal and she wanted us to readto her what we wrote.
So later on we transitioned toout of homeschooling, but even
(39:54):
on our drives, if we had a newchapter I'm sure it was only
like 100 words, but you know, anew chapter she'd ask us to like
oh, you could read it on theway to school or on the way back
and things like that.
So I'm sure it was the mosthilarious hilariously boring,
(40:15):
but yeah, but that it just feltvery normal to be telling
stories, writing them down andand to share them too.
I'm I'm grateful for that,because both of us were terribly
shy growing up and just havingthat first experience of like
our mom letting us like youshould do this, and just having
(40:37):
that first experience of likeour mom letting us, like you
should do this.
And not that that made iteasier or any easier now, but I
I'm glad that she did that.
Um, just so that you knowwriting is something you share.
People should read it, not justyou.
So sure, glad to have thatearly on, even if I'm sure it
was terrible, terrible I doubtit was exceptionally terrible, I
(40:58):
don't know right my.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
So I, I also have a book, but I recently my and I
think, having my kids see this,that they, they want to write
books now, and so, um, my sonand I have been editing and
creating a godzilla book.
Of course, um, well, becausethere's also there's not not
actually that many Godzillabooks compared to a lot of the
other, like you know,superheroes and different things
(41:22):
like that there's not as many.
So, anyway, we've been writingand it's so much fun to like
listen and see how his brainworks and like see the
progression of a story for himand like I, just I, I am in awe
of that.
So I doubt, well, I mean, maybeyour mom did, I doubt it, but
(41:43):
it's incredible to just watchthat over time, to see that
develop, to see theunderstanding of what a story is
develop over time and and howthat works for a child.
So I, you know, I, as a momwith a child who's now writing
actually both of them arewriting stories my daughters are
hilarious and, yeah, she'smaking comic books, but anyway,
(42:04):
it's just so fun.
It's so fun to watch andobserve and to like nurture that
and she was obviously nurturingthat within both of you as well
and the sharing of it.
That's one thing I'm supercurious about.
How do you obviously you knowyou're saying you're shy how do
you both now kind of approachlike with a business, right?
(42:25):
A big part of that is marketingyourself.
It is putting yourself outthere.
How have you found that part ofbeing entrepreneurs to be?
I'll be honest, I hatemarketing.
I don't enjoy it.
Cheryl does our social media.
I love having conversationswith people.
I like this is great for me, somuch fun and like when my my
(42:46):
energy goes up when I get totalk to other amazing humans.
So, just purely out ofcuriosity, what is that?
How has that been for you inputting yourself out there with
writing as well as with yourbusiness?
Speaker 1 (43:01):
And one word that well, not even a word, but a
concept that's been reallyhelpful for the two of us is the
idea of hospitality.
That's something that I thinkanother part of our growing up
has.
We're originally from the South, which is, you know, there's a
pretty strong hospitality corethere, but something instilled
(43:25):
in us growing up.
But also, just as people, and Ifind that instead of focusing
more on that like you say, thepromotional side I also am not
wired for marketing and otherthings but the idea of being
able to meet a need for someoneelse or make them more
comfortable, less uncertain,anything like that, I I find
(43:50):
that so much like I'll jump atthe chance to do that and having
that sense of extending that toanother person, making them
feel more comfortable, makingthem feel and especially with
writing more assured in whatthey're doing.
Because writers I mean it's likeif you're, you create mostly
alone and no idea.
(44:10):
It's like is this good, is thisinteresting, is it fun?
Am I doing, you know, am Igoing the right direction?
And all of those kinds ofthings.
If I can, if I can meetsomebody where they are, help
them there, then then focusisn't on me, it's on them, and
that approach has helped me evenwith our marketing.
I don't say we're great atmarketing.
(44:33):
But thinking of it more of likeis there a way that I can solve
a problem for someone?
Is there a way that I cananswer a question?
I can do that all day.
As far as the salesy pitchingyourself, you know kind of the
wheeler dealer side, I don'thave that chip.
But as far as supportingsomeone, answering questions,
(44:56):
helping any of those things,that doesn't feel like work.
We've talked about this in ourown writing as well, because I
feel like the same thing extendsto a book and I think it's kind
of one of the bedrocks of howwe have our business is that
writing is a kind of hospitalityin itself, that you're inviting
(45:17):
a reader into your world, intoyour space, and you want them to
know basics where to sit.
These rooms are fine, this foodis edible, drink this, have tea
right we can have a greatconversation.
come, stay, stay, yeah, right intime, and we'll.
We'll get to know each other,and I think, thinking of it that
way, um has been helpful for meas well, because it feels less
(45:40):
like this is a book that I havewritten and I have great ideas.
It's just more like come to myhouse and we'll have tea, I'll
make scones, I'll cook something.
That feels a lot moreapproachable and especially for
a certain type of reader thatyou want to invite in.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
I'm thinking of them.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
What do they need?
In this book or in this scene Ithink that helps me think of it
that way, rather than what do Iwant to do.
Or in this scene I think thathelps me think of it that way,
rather than what do I want to do.
And then you have a house wherepeople bump into furniture all
the time and can't find thelight switch, and they don't
know where the bathroom is.
So, anyway, that might be amixed metaphor, but that's kind
of how we approach things.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
No, it makes sense and that I mean that's Cheryl
and I kind of talk about thistoo, and it's like it's always
going back to the, to the whypart, and that was something I
had talked, we had talked aboutwhen I was putting my book out
there and even when she was, andeven for this podcast, right,
it's like what's the why?
Why am I doing this?
Why am I getting this out there?
What is it that I'm hoping toaccomplish?
(46:44):
This, or what am I hoping thatI accomplished by having this
out in the world?
And I think, knowing that, forboth of you, you obviously have
a clear understanding of whatthat is, and so, when you create
messaging, it goes around allof that, you know, for us, this
is we're hoping to inspireothers by the stories that we
get to share, that we get tomeet these amazing people and
(47:07):
share these stories and, um,there's something amazing
knowing that that can inspiresomebody else to to start really
living fully.
And so the why really trulymatters, and it sounds like
you're pretty grounded in that.
So, um, that's incredible, um,coming from one introvert to
another.
So, um, two, so two, all fourof us are yes, right, um, so
(47:36):
we're.
I mean, these times I don't know, it goes by fast every time we
do interviews and I just don'teven know how the time passes.
And I really could talk forhours.
But one of our last questionsthat we ask is about the concept
that brought us here today.
Around this is happening right.
(47:56):
So these are things that are onyour heart, that maybe it's the
growth of your business, thedirection that you're going,
maybe it's that you need to restmore.
But just you know, are thereany things that you can think of
that you just feel so stronglyabout and are excited to be
bringing into this world ormoving towards in this world,
(48:20):
that you wanted to share witheverybody?
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I guess in terms of our business, I would be excited
if we were able to create aspace for writers that they felt
like they could grow and havegood conversations about what
they're working on.
Mainly, I know that some ofthose spaces do exist but
they're hard to find and I guesscoming in edit as editors just
(48:47):
feeling like maybe facilitatinga space like that and bringing
people who ordinarily wouldn'tknow each other into um a room,
I guess as far as um someday wehope to have a space where
writers we've worked with beforewould feel comfortable talking
to other people we've workedwith, even if they don't work on
the same things.
But I just feel like from theclients we've found so far like
(49:10):
you, cheryl and others that it'sjust been amazing to find so
many people who are exactly thekind of writers we want to work
with.
They care about what they do,they want to grow, they want to
do the best they can and theywant to keep writing.
And it would just be amazing ifwe could create a space where
more of those writers could findeach other and talk about what
they do and get encouraged.
(49:32):
And if I can kind of tag alongonto that one thing that's
really hard about being a writerright now is that marketing
side of things.
There's so much pressure to be.
You know you have to be amarketer and you have to be a
public speaker and you have tohave I mean just the sheer
(49:52):
amount of output that you haveto have for social media and I
mean there's it seems likethere's a new platform every
couple of months.
You need to be here and youneed to be doing this other
thing.
You need to be networking.
You need to be doing this otherthing.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
You need to be networking you need to be
connecting and and also write abook, right?
Speaker 1 (50:09):
no, in all of that, write a book and, you know, get
all your actual creative workdone and, um, the at least for
the two of us, um, just ourperspective on being writers
ourselves and, you know, know,feeling that pressure as well.
Part of what we would like todo is just to, if, if, possible,
to start a conversation aboutwhat it could be like
(50:32):
differently, I feel, like peoplewho are creative writers I mean
, that's kind of our wheelhousein particular but creatives
generally.
I'm just hearing about burnouteverywhere.
Artists is trying to keep upwith algorithms and now AI, art
and writers.
You know, obviously AIgenerated work is everywhere now
(50:55):
and kind of that pressure tocreate things.
It's hard, but it's somethingthat I think is very essential
to people.
If you write, you write becauseyou love it.
You don't write because, I mean,I'm speaking for this audience
(51:16):
here, you write because you loveit and you write because you
have a story you want to tell,and all those other pressures
can crowd that out and take awaythe fun of it, the play of it
and the delight that wonder thatwe were talking about before,
and so we, in our own small wayand I do know that it will be a
very small way we'd like toencourage just a, you know, more
(51:38):
of that sustainable, creativeliving, because you just burn
out if you have to create allthe time.
But being a writer means resting, and being a writer means
reading other things andenjoying things and just
(51:58):
incorporating all that andtrying new things and trying new
things and doing all that.
But when you're under all thatpressure to create content and
network and all that stuff, youcan forget why you're really
doing it in first place.
And so that's a big part for ustoo, is we want to try to, at
least in our own space.
You know it's like we can'tchange social media algorithms,
(52:21):
we can't do anything like that.
But creating a space where thatcreative living is important,
that getting back to the basics,essentially like why do you
love this story?
Let's talk about the story,giving yourself time to work on
it and taking that pressure offfor it to be perfect and
marketable and profitable andall those things.
(52:44):
Just to get back to that, whyare you doing this in the first
place and why do you tellstories?
And so we're pretty big on likethe why.
Like, what are your goals?
What does success mean?
And it doesn't always meanselling books.
Well, I guess a short versionof that is in our definition.
Success would be for writers.
(53:06):
We work with that.
There are writers who keepwriting, whether they share
their books with us later or not, or if they have the tools that
they need to keep going.
Just that they have thatcreative longevity, that it's
something that they continue toenjoy and the freedom to play.
Yeah, yeah, so really longanswer to that.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
I love it.
No, it's that I love it.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
No, love it, wonderful, love it so we're
going to help, uh, our fellowintroverts here out a bit um.
Jackie and arianne, how canpeople connect with you?
And ground control?
Speaker 1 (53:39):
editorial well, we are on um facebook.
We have the same name, groundCrew Auditorial and I'd say
that's one of the best places.
We do have a newsletter andblog that you can sign up for
via our website blog post everyother week and a monthly
(54:07):
newsletter, and we love mail, sowe always encourage people.
If you have thoughts about theblog or even topics that you'd
like to see us cover on the blog, we always love to hear that.
And we are on LinkedIn, butthat's more of the business side
.
So as far as the conversation,the community, it's a little
more lively on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (54:28):
This has been incredible and I just I can.
I mean, I'm not even workingwith you I know Cheryl is but I
can completely see people beingand wanting to approach you for
the warmth that you have, forthe just welcoming presence you
both have in sharing somethingthat can feel really difficult
(54:49):
and intimate when and vulnerablein that which is writing right.
I know that there are a lot ofpeople that struggle with like,
oh my God, who's going to be thefirst person to read this?
And I could definitely seewanting to approach both of you
with just such a an empatheticand kind and welcoming the
(55:10):
people that you are.
I just I think people are goingto be lucky to be able to work
with you.
So it's been an absolutepleasure having the opportunity
to talk with both of you.
I'm going to thank ourlisteners tonight for coming in
for another episode of you OnlyGo Once On behalf of my
fantastic, amazing, wonderful,loving co-host, cheryl Cantafio,
(55:33):
and myself, eileen Grimes,thank you for being here and we
will see you all next time.
Take care Bye.
Hi, I'm Jackie Pivoteau.
I hope when you look back atyour life you're glad you did
things that seemed too hard foryou to handle, because you only
go once.
Hi, I'm Ariane Pivoteau.
I hope when you look back atyour life you will have taken
the time to dig deeply intoideas and cultivate a craft,
whatever you have a passion for,because you only go once hello
(00:32):
friends, welcome to anotherepisode of you only go once.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I'm here with my wonderful co-host show, cantafio
.
I'm aileen grimes and you arein for a treat tonight.
Uh, here on you only go once,the podcast, where we explore
stories around the limited timewe have on this earth to create
a fully layered life.
We're doing this a little bitdifferent tonight because we're
so lucky to actually have twoguests with us and we'll get to
learn a little bit more abouttheir stories as we introduce
(00:56):
them.
But I will introduce our firstguest.
Ariane Pébateau is a co-founderof Ground Crew Editorial, along
with her twin sister, jackiePébateau.
Arianne is a writer and editorwho enjoys helping others bring
their stories and ideas to life.
She started out as a writingtutor and then taught courses in
composition and rhetoric forcollege students, after making
(01:19):
the very natural step from thereto become an editor.
She's had the privilege ofworking on a wide variety of
projects, like one of New YorkTimes bestselling author, dave
Asprey's book and a text forBiola University, as well as
dozens of independent clientswith everything from picture
books to memoir, young adultnovels to adult sci-fi.
Ariane is a frequent presenterat SCBWI Rocky Mountain Chapter
(01:42):
Connect events and she was alsoa faculty speaker for the RMC's
Letters and Lines Conference in2022.
Her work has been published inseveral places and Ariane has
received awards in short storyand poetry from a local writers'
guild and was nominated for theGolden Pen Award at the RMC
SCBWI 2020 Fall Conference.
(02:03):
Currently, arianne is pursuingpublication for her YA novels
the Words we Know and Love, aContemporary Fantasy and Still
Dreaming Sci-Fi Fantasy Blend.
Aside from writing and editing,arianne keeps busy enough as a
costume seamstress, baker, cakedecorator, scrapbooker, artist
and paper aficionado Amazing, Ican't wait to dive in.
(02:26):
I'm going to let Cheryl nowintroduce our next guest.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Thanks, eileen.
Hi Ariane, all right, so I getthe privilege of introducing
Jackie Pivito.
She's the other co-founder ofGround Crew Editorial.
She and her twin sister havebeen telling and talking about
stories for as long as they canremember.
Jackie is a passionate writer,editor, artist and enthusiast
(02:54):
for anything involvingimagination and paper.
Her love of story has beencultivated as much by her
academic background as it has bytravel and a never-ending pile
of library books.
There are few things Jackieloves more than talking about
words.
Before becoming a freelanceeditor, jackie was a
(03:15):
university-level tutor forseveral years and taught ESL.
Now she has the privilege ofcollaborating with writers at
all stages of the writingprocess and writing journey.
As a writer and reader, herpassion is children's literature
, particularly middle grade andyoung adult, but Jackie always
has ears for a well-told storyin any genre.
She's currently querying amiddle grade fantasy novel that
(03:36):
features a witch, a highwaymanand a talking cat.
Jackie is also revising a youngadult alternate history of the
mid-1800s.
Jackie's work has beenpublished in the Garbanzo
Literary Journal Tales to GoYarn and Go Overseas.
Jackie, welcome, ariane welcome.
(03:57):
We're so thrilled to have youhere.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Thank you, it's great to be here.
I'm really excited to have thischat.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yes.
So how we all came to know eachother was I was out on yet
again my favorite space,facebook, in the women's writers
group that is out there, and Isaid, hey, does anybody know
editors for a children's book?
(04:24):
And Jackie happened to be onthere and it was a right place,
right time.
And Jackie said you, theprofessionalism, the enthusiasm
(04:48):
for the children's book ideathat I had, along with the
development letter that cameafterwards, which was right on
point, told me everything Ineeded to fix and consider and
to sit in the seat of the bookas though I was a child reading
the book, has been instrumental.
(05:10):
So that's how we got to knowone another.
And a little bit about GroundCrew Editorial.
One of the most charming thingsabout their website is that
it's a paper airplane, the logo,which I found just completely
awesome just because of all ofyour references to flying and
(05:33):
all that.
So I kind of want to start itthere.
That's my long-winded way ofgetting to tell us about the
concept around the paperairplane and your connection to
flight and all the differentreferences to the ground crew
items that you list.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Where to start.
One of the things that I guessis important background
information.
We do come from an Air Forcefamily, so a love of aircraft
and other things has kind ofbeen I don't know baked in
Definitely, but one of thethings that has always struck me
as important but little knownfact.
(06:17):
So for high-performanceaircraft it takes about roughly
17 hours of maintenance forevery hour of flying.
Whoa.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
It seems disproportionate, because we
really only pay attention toseeing jets in flight doing
their thing, but behind thescenes there's a ton of work to
make sure that those airplanescan keep flying.
And it seemed like a reallynatural metaphor to describe
what editorial work does forwriters.
(06:54):
And writers do so much work thatreaders never see, especially
when you've got that book inyour hands and if you're a
really fast reader, it can takeyou just a handful of hours for
picture books.
It's work on stories, and so wefelt pretty strongly about that
(07:27):
as a metaphor that we wanted totake on, because it's important
work, it's good work and it allhas to do with that excellence
you're working towards and thecraftsmanship of that also that
it's not a bad thing that ittakes that much time, it's just
it's necessary, and but alsothat kind of that lovely natural
(07:49):
separation that we can have allthe skills like the, the
industry knowledge, the keepingup with what the market
expectations are and trends andstyle guides and all of that
technical knowledge, and writerscan just do what they're really
good at and fly the plane andessentially keep the writing
forward, and we can keep up withthe tightening down everything
(08:09):
and making sure all of thosethings are good to go.
So we'd had the idea in ourheads for a long time of we've
been independent editors for awhile, but just last year joined
forces and we thought we'd beenthinking about this name for a
long time, so it just seemednatural that that's what we
would go for.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I love that.
I know that fact right now.
I just thank you for puttingthat in my back pocket and I'm
gonna tell my son later becausehe will love it.
He's all he's like Mr Engineerhimself and so knowing that will
be really cool for him.
And it's so true.
I mean the amount that and,like I'll just you know, talking
from the editing side, I amjust in awe of the work that
(08:53):
happens there.
And when you I mean you know,when you first, if someone's
first exploring writing a book,right, that's not maybe
necessarily one of the thingsthat they think about right,
like, I can edit it, I'm justgoing to go through, and you
know I'm going to go my second,maybe third, and then we're good
to go.
There's so much that goes intoit and having a good editor can
truly make or break a book.
(09:15):
Right, if you, if you don'tcome in and have someone really
go through, you know, as avoracious reader myself or well,
not as much after I've had kidsbecause I feel like I don't
have any time but loved readinggrowing up but, like you see, a
book that's poorly edited, it'slike this is so much, this is
too hard to get through and itjust it makes all the difference
(09:35):
in the world.
So I love, love that metaphoraround the ground crew, because
it's so true, especially onceyou've been in the publication
space like, oh my god, there'sjust, there are so many pieces
and parts that come into justthis one physical object.
Or even, you know, if youlisten to audiobooks, either way
(09:58):
, there's still, there's so muchthat happens before it gets
into the hands of somebody.
So you're absolutely right andthank you for editing, because
Cheryl knows it is not my strongsuit ever at all.
I'm like where do periods go?
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Well, and another thing too, is, if the editor's
doing their job right, thereader isn't thinking about that
at all, those mechanics in thebackground.
You're only paying attention tothe story, and so I also like
that that what we do, becausethe focus really should be on
this is the author's work andthis is their story, and you
shouldn't have any of those.
You're not thinking, wow,mechanic, really, that's making
(10:37):
some noise.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, so, but yeah, that's important to us so, um,
but yeah, yeah, that's importantto us.
Yeah, definitely so.
You said you, so you joinedforces about a year ago together
.
What sort of was the final?
Like yes, this obviously justmakes sense.
We should be doing thistogether now.
Was there anything that wassort of that catalyst, or just
(11:00):
it's been falling into place forso long?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
yeah, yeah, like it's been a gradual process.
But both of us have worked fora lot of places where they kind
of tell us how to work and justthe nature of freelance editing.
A lot of them are agencies butyou never get to talk to the
authors.
So it's just a manuscriptarrives, you do the best you can
but there's no conversation.
So you send it back with anedit and you hope it was useful
(11:24):
and you, but you never get tohear and sometimes you can find
them out in the wild later andsort of think, oh good, you got
it out there.
But there's just something sovaluable that we found just in
the few instances when we wouldoccasionally take on our own and
we just thought I love doingthis, I love being able to talk
to the people I'm working withand helping.
That be a more personalexperience and making sure
(11:46):
they're getting what they needrather than just a flat one size
fits all kind of thing based onthe requirements and both of us
.
You'll find every editor has atotally different preference for
how they work and what theyenjoy doing, but I think it
comes from our tutoring teachingbackground.
But I personally really lovethat interaction with writers,
(12:10):
and writing can be so lonely.
A lot of writers don't havecommunities that they belong to,
they don't have critiquepartners, or they've tried
partners, but they didn't workout for some reason.
So I feel like thatrelationship being I mean even
just cheering somebody onthrough the writing process
that's it's very personal, andso we we wanted to create
(12:31):
something that would allow us tooffer that more personal
relationship and support.
Especially, I mean, you canmeet a lot of people online like
, yeah, and that's beenbrilliant.
But having our own kind ofstriking out on our own to
allows us to to build ourprocesses the way we like and to
(12:55):
give authors that opportunity.
And some some don't need it asmuch and we leave that up to
them.
But if they want to have aconversation, if they need
somebody they just can depend onlike hey, I have a question, we
want to.
That up to them.
But if they want to have aconversation, if they need
somebody that just can depend onlike hey, I have a question we
want to be there for them.
So that's important to us andthat was a pretty big factor in
deciding to start our own firm.
(13:17):
But I think, like Arianne wassaying, I think it comes back to
our tutoring background.
When we started, both of uswere peer tutors, so we were
still students at the time.
So I think it kind of has that.
Well, we're writers too, butwe're editors, and so I feel
like this is just anotherevolution of that same job of
like.
I know exactly what you'retalking about because I've been
(13:38):
there.
The dark night of themanuscript.
Things don't seem to be makingsense and I really love being
able to share that as much aspossible with writers who may
not have that anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, absolutely Go on, Cheryl.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
No, I was just going to say, and I so appreciate, so
I've worked with Jackie, so I soappreciated your authenticity
and I feel like the both of youhave that genuine authenticity.
Number one, just in general,for the love of books and number
two for really understandingthe audiences, because sometimes
(14:12):
, you know, I won't speak forall writers but sometimes for me
.
Like I'm thinking like okay,this is where I want this to go,
and blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
And then you, there are times,every once in a while, where you
leave the audience behind andyou are there as editors to kind
of bring us back and goremember who you're writing for.
And it's like oh yeah, and it's.
(14:33):
And it could be like one simplequestion that you've brought up
where you're like aha, and thenyou go and it's like, okay,
well, that made more sense andit makes for such a better story
.
I think I have so manyquestions because you had
brought up how flight is in yourfamily or you know, airplanes
and things like that are in yourfamily.
Did you guys have theopportunity?
(14:54):
Was it military background orwas it commercial background
that your family has?
And, you know, did you traveldifferent places?
We've talked to a couple ofpeople that are like, oh well,
you know, like our parentsalways had the travel bug, so we
just, you know, got on planesand went.
Was that your lifestyle?
(15:17):
Like, did you have a favoriteplace you traveled?
Was that your?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
lifestyle, Like did you have a favorite place you
traveled?
I know I'm asking a ton of likefire fired off questions, so
feel free to answer any one ofthose.
Well, our dad was Air Force,okay, but unlike some Air Force
families, our dad's tours werevery tame and he tried to keep
it that way.
We didn't end up anywhereexotic, okay, okay, most part.
We managed to be in texas, uh,colorado, a few times um between
(15:50):
different assignments.
Um, we ended up in mobilealabama for a little while, okay
, but mainly just texas andcolorado.
But um, outside of that not notbeing forced to move places,
but um, our, our parents um havehad given us the opportunity to
travel a few times as a familywhen we were growing up, so that
(16:12):
that has been um a great joy.
Some memories for that.
We were able to um go toEngland and Scotland Um that's
the family.
Scotland's my dream.
I highly recommend Okay,Anywhere anywhere, anywhere,
okay.
Um, but we, we both love therain.
(16:33):
So like, if you go in thesummer, be prepared it will rain
almost every day.
But if you like that's glorious,yeah, but um, but yeah it was.
It was an interesting um kindof seed that was planted early
on.
Um, uh, we were able to go acouple times and on one of those
trips, um, we ended up goingthrough oxford and, um, that's
(16:57):
just kind of a I don't know.
We, our, our dad was alwayslike, go stand in front of this
and I'll get your picture.
You know that kind of thing.
But, um, we happened to bepassing by the Oxford university
admissions office and our dadwas like, oh, just stand over
there, I'll get your picture.
You know, someday you'll gohere, and at the time it really
did seem like a really far offdream, like, oh, I would never
(17:20):
do that, and everything.
And years later we ended upboth of us were accepted as
visiting scholars to be inOxford, and so that that's
always been kind of a lovelybookend that we visited and it
was like, oh, haha, it was justa joke at the time.
And it was just sort of like,how cool would that be?
And then, yeah, yeah, onesemester it happened, yeah
(17:41):
that's awesome.
we've, uh, really been blessedto be able to travel and um, so,
uh, we ended up, um, attendingoxford for um, just a term, a
term there as scholars lived, solived in england for a time and
then, um, both of us havealways had a love for Japan, and
so that ended up being anotherplace that we were able to
(18:04):
travel and live for a time aswell.
But the two of us, just on ourown, decided we would do that.
That was our first likeinternational, on our own trip.
Yeah, so I've always lovedtraveling and getting to.
It really has been a blessingto be able to really live in
other places.
(18:24):
You get a real good feel for itwhen you're there and figuring
out where, to you know, get yourgroceries, that kind of just
knowing a place.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
That's amazing.
My son really wants to go toJapan.
He's very into anime right now,so that's like he's like and
Godzilla Like that's.
Those are his two big things.
He's like I have to go to Japanto do that, and he wants to eat
some ramen and he loves sushi.
So I'm like, well, I guess thisis just going to have to be on
our list now.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Well, I also highly recommend, and food is very
cheap, so you can have as muchsushi as you want.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Perfect, that sounds good and I'm in, I'll do it too.
I'll eat all of that stuff too.
So, um, yeah, that's incredible.
Um, so how much of all of thishave you been together and how
much have you done, things apart?
I'm just curious on the on thetwin thing, right, like, what
does that?
What does that?
(19:20):
What does that look like foryou?
And, look, I have a sister andwe live about four blocks away
from each other.
So it's, we spent a little bitof time in different places, but
really, and we have fourbrothers, so there's just so
many of us.
But you know, it was.
It's also amazingly wonderfulto have her right around the
corner and be so close to her.
(19:41):
So I not making fun of in anyway, shape or form, the bond
that exists, um, just purelycurious well, we, we've pretty
much we've done most thingstogether.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Um, as you might have guessed, we're very similar.
Um, we have a lot of interestsin common.
Um, I think in college andthings we were a little bit more
apart, but as far as the thingswe kept coming back to and I
don't know, everything justseems better when ariana's
around.
And I think a lot of thereasons we've done a lot of the
things we have is because we'vekind of like I don't know whose
(20:17):
idea it was to start, but youknow, one of us will have it,
the other one keeps it going,you know like you know and whose
idea it really was.
But, um, I know I felt reallyblessed to to have our end
through many of these things.
Um, I don't know if I wouldhave been brave enough just on
my own.
Um, especially like our, ourjapan experience first, I don't
(20:38):
know if I would have gone bymyself.
But yeah, jumping into theunknown with somebody you know
is easier, so I definitely feellike that's been something I'm
very thankful for, that I'vebeen able to do a lot of things
that even my younger I don'tknow younger self would have
(21:00):
been surprised, but it's.
It's always nice to have atraveling companion, so sure.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
In more ways, definitely.
Well, I mean, and that's, Ithink we don't.
We don't talk enough about thatin my opinion.
You know, it's always the likeI'm the solopreneur or I made it
to the top of this and I'm aCEO and whatnot, but I'm like
the actual I mean Cheryl and Ido this podcast together, right,
that's, it's so much fun to beable to do that and, like you
(21:27):
said, to be brave, she makes mebrave enough to do this.
We feed back and forth on thatand I just I think that the
connection and relationshipsthat we build with other people
can be driving forces to usdoing really great things.
And I don't think it ha, itdoesn't have to be this just I,
(21:47):
I was the only one who made itto the top, um, kind of thing.
I just I think that that thatstory is really wonderful and
needs to be celebrated more.
So I I love that hearing thatand that it's been so
encouraging for both of you tokeep going and trying new things
and doing this stuff, like wecan make each other braver and
(22:08):
we can keep pulling each otherup.
So I just want to thank you forsharing that, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
I've, especially with this business that we've
launched together.
There's so much that I'vecontinually been reminded.
If I was trying to build thismyself, it would be almost
impossible.
So there's just so much to bedone and I think naturally there
are strengths between us thatwe kind of gravitate towards
(22:36):
different things where it's likeokay, I'll tackle that if you
tackle this.
There's something reallyfreeing in that.
Where it's like this is not allon me, and we've always helped
each other with work anyway.
I guess that was another reasonwe decided to start working
together, because justespecially editorial work, a lot
of it is just working throughthe story yourself first, and
(22:56):
it's just valuable to havesomebody else who thinks very
similarly, to be like okay,here's what I think I'm seeing.
Is there a better way that Icould say this or express this
or you know what I'm saying Alot of that kind of thing before
I have to, you know, share itwith somebody else.
And so it's just beeninvaluable and we thought, well,
we're doing this anyway, andnow we can just officially give
(23:18):
that to our clients also, orjust officially say, hey, when
you work with one of us, you'rereally working with both of us
in some shape yeah, not notalways in the finished version,
the letters or anything likethat, but we're always helping
each other with each other'sclients because we just want to
do the best we can, andsometimes you need extra brain.
You just need someone else totalk to.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
And I'm sure you've experienced that yourself.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
I mean, there are times where Iget something stuck in my head
and I'll text Eileen and I'llsay what do you think about this
concept?
And she'll give me a differentperspective, or she'll give me
the oh, were you thinking this?
(24:01):
And I'm like she's in my head.
I'm good, but she actually hasthe words for them, which is
great.
So, yeah, I've seen that, I'veseen it with.
So, when we had Jim and SteveGenzano on as our guests,
they're twin brothers andthey're, you know, as the
listeners know, they're twinbrothers and, um, they're, you
know, as, as the listeners know,they're also my cousins.
(24:22):
So, um, I remember when theywere younger they had like their
own language.
They, um, you know, they wereeach other's best friends and,
um, they also have the writingbug.
So, um, uh, jim in itself haswritten five books.
I think he's on book six of amid-year middle-child fantasy
(24:49):
series, and Stephen is workingon his own book.
He's more of an artist, so he'sdone a lot of the book covers
and stuff like that.
So they just work really welltogether.
I know that there are timeswhen I get together with my
sister and I can just tell byeither a single word, or when I
(25:16):
see her face, I kind of knowexactly what she's thinking and
I know I'm impossible not to ofknow exactly what she's thinking
and I know like I'm impossiblenot to read because my face
talks for itself.
So we've, so Eileen and Iworked with somebody where they
would ask me a question.
They would ask a question tothe two of us and stare at me
because they knew my face wouldgive it away.
(25:36):
And it used to annoy me becauseI'm like I don't have to be one
of the talks all the time andthe person said, well, you don't
have to talk because of youknow the face.
And I was like, no, I get that.
But there is something to besaid about having a connection,
that where you elevate oneanother, and I've seen that too
(25:58):
with just some of the thingsthat you shared with me, jackie,
around some authors that Ishould kind of pay attention to,
and somehow I wound up down therabbit hole of the Fan Brothers
, and they've written thingslike the Night Gardener and it
Fell from the Sky and some ofthe other things that they've
(26:19):
done, and their stuff isexquisite.
And you see that and you think,yeah, that's like a unicorn
collaboration almost.
And I kind of feel like I havethat with Eileen, in that we
have a unicorn collaboration andI'm sure that's how you feel as
well.
Is that you're just lucky?
That or not just lucky?
(26:41):
You are lucky that you havethis collaboration also,
somebody that kind of gets you.
So it's all lovely, it's alllovely.
I had a question and then Ijust went off on a tangent, so
that's cool.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
You'll come back sometime.
I will, I'll come back.
I am orbiting and spiralingbecause I have a thousand
questions and they just all wentaway.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
So, eileen, if you have anything, that would be
awesome.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Oh, great, yes, definitely, yeah.
Thank you, then.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
This is the part where I throw her off the bridge
, that's good.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
No, that's totally fine I'm so.
I always like to hear a littlebit of a horror story, maybe
what's been one of the mostdifficult experiences you've had
while doing this editing work.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Well, I guess the one right off the top of my head is
from when I first got started.
I turned back and added thatwas so bad that the person the
client actually asked if I wouldaccept a lower rate.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
You should specify.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
That was your very first job my very first job.
Yes, I'm sure, and there were alot of things I did not know
about editing uh pdfs so it wasa steep learning curve and on
the whole, I think she was verygracious with me, but it was um,
I think.
I don't know, just, do you haveany?
(28:11):
There's been some interestingmanuscripts, um, yeah, out there
.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
um, I don't doubt it, there's got to be.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, I would say mine would be, I guess, a fairly
early on experience.
I think it was my firstindependent client that I had
through another firm and itturned out that this author had
been.
He had rejected about 15 to 20editors before me.
(28:39):
I did not know that at the time, and he had created a test for
the editors, which another thingthat I was brand new.
I didn't know that that wasn'treally kind of a red flag?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah right, but I did not know at the time.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
And so it was.
He had the kind of the answerkey and it turned out that, uh,
so I I did his test and I turnedit back in and he said thanks
for playing, you've failed likeall the others.
And um, I was just curiousbecause I was new, so I asked
him, like you know basicallywhat did Right you know, I'd
like to know.
And so he let me know what I hadmissed.
(29:20):
And it turned out that hisanswer key was actually wrong.
Oh, and so, so all these othereditors I think had had also,
you know, had probably passed,but didn't bring it up, didn't
ask, and so I was just thinking,oh well, I should just, you
know, let him know.
So I gave him the grammaticalexplanation for, like, this is
(29:44):
why this is actually correct,and I just thought, you know,
that would be the end of it, youknow?
Thanks, thanks so much.
Anyway, we'll part ways.
And he wrote me back and saidgreat, I'd like to hire you.
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And he wrote me back and said great, I'd like to hire
you.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Oh, wow I had not expected that result at all.
That was that and um, and so itended up being a really
interesting project um so not Iwouldn't say a horror story, but
uh, one of those like uhlearning learning experiences
that he ended up being a reallyinteresting client.
Um, uh, we kind of had a uh, aninteresting blend of
(30:22):
developmental editing, which isthat big picture like the story
work, kind of editorial work,and as well as copy editing,
which was another thing.
At the time, I thought youcould do both of those at the
same time, and now that I'm anestablished editor, it's like
absolutely not Do not do thoseat the same time, but he was a
very.
He'd been working on this bookfor about 20 years and it
(30:48):
definitely showed it was reallyoverworked.
I was the only.
I was the only, I was thesecond person to read it, so
that felt special in its own way.
But I don't think he wasactually ready for it to be
published.
He, he would continually sendme emails about word choice.
(31:08):
So for about a month or soafter the project ended I'd get
emails from him and he'd be likeoh, I just haven't been able to
sleep In this sentence sentence, do you think I should use
meandered or wandered right,that level of like, yeah,
turning over very small choices.
So I, I think I think for bothof us that was a I don't know if
(31:30):
every editor has one prettyearly on that's bad, like never
doing that again but learned alot.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
We like yeah, we like to call that character building
um a lot of character so whychildren's lit?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
hmm?
Speaker 1 (31:53):
that's a good question, I feel like for a long
time I resisted the label, butit just sort of made sense over
time because it was always whatI was writing and reading.
And even after we got too oldfor like, we kind of skipped
young adult, which is sort offunny, Like when we were the
right age for young adult.
(32:13):
We just skipped right into adultand read all of those things
and then only later came backand found there's a lot of great
stuff down in kidlit.
They have more fun, they'remore imaginative, and all the
books that I have reread wereall kidlit, and so it just sort
of made sense over time and wejust happened to make a
(32:33):
connection, actually through ourdad, Someone at his work, his
commander at the time.
His wife was an SCBWI member,and they just got to talking and
our dad was, like you shouldmeet and it was kind of like
this is kind of odd, Like okay,and we sat down with her one day
(32:54):
and she just told us all aboutthe organization and it suddenly
felt like a real thing, Like,oh, people do this.
This is a specialty and, um, itwas, it was we had.
We had been a part of otherwriter communities um and not
really felt like we fit.
Um, uh, been to differentconferences and and workshops
(33:16):
and things like that and and youkind of uh, when you tell
people that you write for kids,you often get the, the pat on
the head like, oh, it's adorableand it's so easy, right, right,
yeah, anyone who's written onewill tell you that's not true,
definitely it's not easy no, butwe're.
We were very thankful to getconnected with SCBWI, which is a
(33:38):
mouthful of an acronym.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah right, Alphabet soup.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
But the people in it are really great and it's an
organization that's prettyfocused on education.
So it's writers wanting to getbetter at their craft and
especially learning the industry.
So a lot of our experience aswriters has been we've loved
being a part of that communityand learning that, as well as
(34:07):
being editors.
Because it seemed like a prettynatural fit, I spend all my
time here reading these books,keeping up with the industry,
working on my own kid lit.
So I think what I love the mostabout kid lit is that there's
still place for things likewonder and curiosity and finding
out and asking questions, likea lot of those things that I
(34:28):
feel I'm a little sad about,because YA, right now does seem
to feel like oh you've got thatfigured out already, you know,
but I feel like there's still,there should still always be a
place for books where you canjust explore some of those
things, and things there stillcan be light and fun, and I I
would argue that's why a lot ofpeople read down.
um a lot of adults love middlegrade and young adult and
(34:52):
picture books too, because Ithink there's still a strong
desire.
I don't think a lot of peoplegrow out of it, you know like
why should you grow out ofwonder and delight and all of
those other things?
So for me it seemed like anatural fit to work on that in
my own writing, but also to workwith other kidlit authors.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Yeah, I love that I actually just started reading my
kids.
I used to read I loved MadelineO'L that I actually just
started reading my kids.
Um, I used to read, I lovedMadeline O'Lingle.
So I started reading A Wrinklein Time to them recently and
both of them are into it, right.
I'm like there's like timetravel, like there's all this,
like yeah, are they?
like oh, cool right yeah, so,yeah so, and like even like now
(35:34):
getting to kind of re-experiencethat with them and stuff, like
it's, it's definitely, yeah,it's just it's a lot of fun and
I, I mean, I certainly for me itwas this like space of
possibility, right.
Growing up, like what and I wasone of like I said I was one of
six, so like we didn't travel aton but it's like what else is,
(35:57):
what else exists in this world,what else is possible or even
impossible that becomes possible?
Right, I think that that partof you know the, the YA or
children's lit, like that's thestuff that is so incredible and
like why does it have todisappear once we get into the
adult novels?
Like I just, you know, I just Ithink it's such a special place
(36:20):
to be and it's really been funfor me to kind of revisit that
again.
So you're totally right.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons why I fell in
love with the Little Prince.
So, fun fact, when I was inhigh school, I took French and
they the teacher actually taughtus how to read and comprehend
French by using the littleprints.
And you know, the little printstalked about, you know, drawing
(36:48):
a picture, and it just lookedlike like adults kind of lost
their sense of wonder because itwould look like a line and then
a big lump and then anotherline, and it was no, that's a
snake that swallowed an elephantor something like that, you
know.
And yeah, those were the thingsthat I loved about that,
because I was like, oh yeah,that's right, that's, that's a
(37:09):
lot of fun, that's a lot of.
It's a different perspective.
Um mo Willems talked about.
I have one like his.
My favorite book of his isLeonardo the Terrible Monster
and what he learned is that kidsare very specific.
So he showed one monster thatlike showed like a lot of teeth
(37:30):
and he said something like ithas like several hundred teeth.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
And then he put 1,642 teeth.
That's it.
Just to be clear.
I've seen it, I've read itmultiple times.
My children read it.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yes, but there's a little asterisk that says not
all teeth shown, because you'dhave that one kid that was
counting.
So just to be able tounderstand that, you actually
(38:10):
introduced me to Julie Donaldsonand she's written several books
, like the Stickman and thingslike that, where it just puts a
different spin on the what-ifsand really stretching the
imagination and then creatingsomething that's a human
connection.
I think all of that is lovelyand I love that you know the
both of you focused on neverwanting to lose that sense of
wonder, because I think that'sso important Were either of your
parents storytellers at all?
Like what made you kind of gointo literature to begin with,
(38:33):
like children's that I totallyget, um, but I always like to
know like how people got starteddown the path of becoming, uh,
creatives well, we always hadstories in some form or the
other.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Um, our dad being a doctor, um, he had different
kinds of stories at dinner table, but we were homeschooled,
start with by our mom and wealways had books.
Um, we read books at lunch andwe read books together, um out
loud, as part of our curriculum,a pretty, I don't know exciting
regular field trip to thelibrary and we could get as many
(39:11):
books as we could hold and eachyeah, and just um, you know,
feel like you're really makingout like a band, you know, just
like they're really gonna let metake all these books home with
me and uh, so we always hadalways had books, always had
stories and, um, just I don'tknow, seemed like a natural
thing.
I don't actually remember when Istarted writing it.
(39:33):
Just, you remember your firststory it was on copy paper, I
know it was, but our mom keptall of those things and I
remember she gave us our firstnotebooks and that was a big
deal and she wanted us to readto her what we wrote.
So later on we transitioned toout of homeschooling, but even
(39:54):
on our drives, if we had a newchapter I'm sure it was only
like 100 words, but you know, anew chapter she'd ask us to like
oh, you could read it on theway to school or on the way back
and things like that.
So I'm sure it was the mosthilarious hilariously boring,
(40:15):
but yeah, but that it just feltvery normal to be telling
stories, writing them down andand to share them too.
I'm I'm grateful for that,because both of us were terribly
shy growing up and just havingthat first experience of like
our mom letting us like youshould do this, and just having
(40:37):
that first experience of likeour mom letting us, like you
should do this.
And not that that made iteasier or any easier now, but I
I'm glad that she did that.
Um, just so that you knowwriting is something you share.
People should read it, not justyou.
So sure, glad to have thatearly on, even if I'm sure it
was terrible, terrible I doubtit was exceptionally terrible, I
(40:58):
don't know right my.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
So I, I also have a book, but I recently my and I
think, having my kids see this,that they, they want to write
books now, and so, um, my sonand I have been editing and
creating a godzilla book.
Of course, um, well, becausethere's also there's not not
actually that many Godzillabooks compared to a lot of the
other, like you know,superheroes and different things
(41:22):
like that there's not as many.
So, anyway, we've been writingand it's so much fun to like
listen and see how his brainworks and like see the
progression of a story for himand like I, just I, I am in awe
of that.
So I doubt, well, I mean, maybeyour mom did, I doubt it, but
(41:43):
it's incredible to just watchthat over time, to see that
develop, to see theunderstanding of what a story is
develop over time and and howthat works for a child.
So I, you know, I, as a momwith a child who's now writing
actually both of them arewriting stories my daughters are
hilarious and, yeah, she'smaking comic books, but anyway,
(42:04):
it's just so fun.
It's so fun to watch andobserve and to like nurture that
and she was obviously nurturingthat within both of you as well
and the sharing of it.
That's one thing I'm supercurious about.
How do you obviously you knowyou're saying you're shy how do
you both now kind of approachlike with a business, right?
(42:25):
A big part of that is marketingyourself.
It is putting yourself outthere.
How have you found that part ofbeing entrepreneurs to be?
I'll be honest, I hatemarketing.
I don't enjoy it.
Cheryl does our social media.
I love having conversationswith people.
I like this is great for me, somuch fun and like when my my
(42:46):
energy goes up when I get totalk to other amazing humans.
So, just purely out ofcuriosity, what is that?
How has that been for you inputting yourself out there with
writing as well as with yourbusiness?
Speaker 1 (43:01):
And one word that well, not even a word, but a
concept that's been reallyhelpful for the two of us is the
idea of hospitality.
That's something that I thinkanother part of our growing up
has.
We're originally from the South, which is, you know, there's a
pretty strong hospitality corethere, but something instilled
(43:25):
in us growing up.
But also, just as people, and Ifind that instead of focusing
more on that like you say, thepromotional side I also am not
wired for marketing and otherthings but the idea of being
able to meet a need for someoneelse or make them more
comfortable, less uncertain,anything like that, I I find
(43:50):
that so much like I'll jump atthe chance to do that and having
that sense of extending that toanother person, making them
feel more comfortable, makingthem feel and especially with
writing more assured in whatthey're doing.
Because writers I mean it's likeif you're, you create mostly
alone and no idea.
(44:10):
It's like is this good, is thisinteresting, is it fun?
Am I doing, you know, am Igoing the right direction?
And all of those kinds ofthings.
If I can, if I can meetsomebody where they are, help
them there, then then focusisn't on me, it's on them, and
that approach has helped me evenwith our marketing.
I don't say we're great atmarketing.
(44:33):
But thinking of it more of likeis there a way that I can solve
a problem for someone?
Is there a way that I cananswer a question?
I can do that all day.
As far as the salesy pitchingyourself, you know kind of the
wheeler dealer side, I don'thave that chip.
But as far as supportingsomeone, answering questions,
(44:56):
helping any of those things,that doesn't feel like work.
We've talked about this in ourown writing as well, because I
feel like the same thing extendsto a book and I think it's kind
of one of the bedrocks of howwe have our business is that
writing is a kind of hospitalityin itself, that you're inviting
(45:17):
a reader into your world, intoyour space, and you want them to
know basics where to sit.
These rooms are fine, this foodis edible, drink this, have tea
right we can have a greatconversation.
come, stay, stay, yeah, right intime, and we'll.
We'll get to know each other,and I think, thinking of it that
way, um has been helpful for meas well, because it feels less
(45:40):
like this is a book that I havewritten and I have great ideas.
It's just more like come to myhouse and we'll have tea, I'll
make scones, I'll cook something.
That feels a lot moreapproachable and especially for
a certain type of reader thatyou want to invite in.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
I'm thinking of them.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
What do they need?
In this book or in this scene Ithink that helps me think of it
that way, rather than what do Iwant to do.
Or in this scene I think thathelps me think of it that way,
rather than what do I want to do.
And then you have a house wherepeople bump into furniture all
the time and can't find thelight switch, and they don't
know where the bathroom is.
So, anyway, that might be amixed metaphor, but that's kind
of how we approach things.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
No, it makes sense and that I mean that's Cheryl
and I kind of talk about thistoo, and it's like it's always
going back to the, to the whypart, and that was something I
had talked, we had talked aboutwhen I was putting my book out
there and even when she was, andeven for this podcast, right,
it's like what's the why?
Why am I doing this?
Why am I getting this out there?
What is it that I'm hoping toaccomplish?
(46:44):
This, or what am I hoping thatI accomplished by having this
out in the world?
And I think, knowing that, forboth of you, you obviously have
a clear understanding of whatthat is, and so, when you create
messaging, it goes around allof that, you know, for us, this
is we're hoping to inspireothers by the stories that we
get to share, that we get tomeet these amazing people and
(47:07):
share these stories and, um,there's something amazing
knowing that that can inspiresomebody else to to start really
living fully.
And so the why really trulymatters, and it sounds like
you're pretty grounded in that.
So, um, that's incredible, um,coming from one introvert to
another.
So, um, two, so two, all fourof us are yes, right, um, so
(47:36):
we're.
I mean, these times I don't know, it goes by fast every time we
do interviews and I just don'teven know how the time passes.
And I really could talk forhours.
But one of our last questionsthat we ask is about the concept
that brought us here today.
Around this is happening right.
(47:56):
So these are things that are onyour heart, that maybe it's the
growth of your business, thedirection that you're going,
maybe it's that you need to restmore.
But just you know, are thereany things that you can think of
that you just feel so stronglyabout and are excited to be
bringing into this world ormoving towards in this world,
(48:20):
that you wanted to share witheverybody?
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I guess in terms of our business, I would be excited
if we were able to create aspace for writers that they felt
like they could grow and havegood conversations about what
they're working on.
Mainly, I know that some ofthose spaces do exist but
they're hard to find and I guesscoming in edit as editors just
(48:47):
feeling like maybe facilitatinga space like that and bringing
people who ordinarily wouldn'tknow each other into um a room,
I guess as far as um someday wehope to have a space where
writers we've worked with beforewould feel comfortable talking
to other people we've workedwith, even if they don't work on
the same things.
But I just feel like from theclients we've found so far like
(49:10):
you, cheryl and others that it'sjust been amazing to find so
many people who are exactly thekind of writers we want to work
with.
They care about what they do,they want to grow, they want to
do the best they can and theywant to keep writing.
And it would just be amazing ifwe could create a space where
more of those writers could findeach other and talk about what
they do and get encouraged.
(49:32):
And if I can kind of tag alongonto that one thing that's
really hard about being a writerright now is that marketing
side of things.
There's so much pressure to be.
You know you have to be amarketer and you have to be a
public speaker and you have tohave I mean just the sheer
(49:52):
amount of output that you haveto have for social media and I
mean there's it seems likethere's a new platform every
couple of months.
You need to be here and youneed to be doing this other
thing.
You need to be networking.
You need to be doing this otherthing.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
You need to be networking you need to be
connecting and and also write abook, right?
Speaker 1 (50:09):
no, in all of that, write a book and, you know, get
all your actual creative workdone and, um, the at least for
the two of us, um, just ourperspective on being writers
ourselves and, you know, know,feeling that pressure as well.
Part of what we would like todo is just to, if, if, possible,
to start a conversation aboutwhat it could be like
(50:32):
differently, I feel, like peoplewho are creative writers I mean
, that's kind of our wheelhousein particular but creatives
generally.
I'm just hearing about burnouteverywhere.
Artists is trying to keep upwith algorithms and now AI, art
and writers.
You know, obviously AIgenerated work is everywhere now
(50:55):
and kind of that pressure tocreate things.
It's hard, but it's somethingthat I think is very essential
to people.
If you write, you write becauseyou love it.
You don't write because, I mean,I'm speaking for this audience
(51:16):
here, you write because you loveit and you write because you
have a story you want to tell,and all those other pressures
can crowd that out and take awaythe fun of it, the play of it
and the delight that wonder thatwe were talking about before,
and so we, in our own small wayand I do know that it will be a
very small way we'd like toencourage just a, you know, more
(51:38):
of that sustainable, creativeliving, because you just burn
out if you have to create allthe time.
But being a writer means resting, and being a writer means
reading other things andenjoying things and just
(51:58):
incorporating all that andtrying new things and trying new
things and doing all that.
But when you're under all thatpressure to create content and
network and all that stuff, youcan forget why you're really
doing it in first place.
And so that's a big part for ustoo, is we want to try to, at
least in our own space.
You know it's like we can'tchange social media algorithms,
(52:21):
we can't do anything like that.
But creating a space where thatcreative living is important,
that getting back to the basics,essentially like why do you
love this story?
Let's talk about the story,giving yourself time to work on
it and taking that pressure offfor it to be perfect and
marketable and profitable andall those things.
(52:44):
Just to get back to that, whyare you doing this in the first
place and why do you tellstories?
And so we're pretty big on likethe why.
Like, what are your goals?
What does success mean?
And it doesn't always meanselling books.
Well, I guess a short versionof that is in our definition.
Success would be for writers.
(53:06):
We work with that.
There are writers who keepwriting, whether they share
their books with us later or not, or if they have the tools that
they need to keep going.
Just that they have thatcreative longevity, that it's
something that they continue toenjoy and the freedom to play.
Yeah, yeah, so really longanswer to that.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
I love it.
No, it's that I love it.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
No, love it, wonderful, love it so we're
going to help, uh, our fellowintroverts here out a bit um.
Jackie and arianne, how canpeople connect with you?
And ground control?
Speaker 1 (53:39):
editorial well, we are on um facebook.
We have the same name, groundCrew Auditorial and I'd say
that's one of the best places.
We do have a newsletter andblog that you can sign up for
via our website blog post everyother week and a monthly
(54:07):
newsletter, and we love mail, sowe always encourage people.
If you have thoughts about theblog or even topics that you'd
like to see us cover on the blog, we always love to hear that.
And we are on LinkedIn, butthat's more of the business side
.
So as far as the conversation,the community, it's a little
more lively on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (54:28):
This has been incredible and I just I can.
I mean, I'm not even workingwith you I know Cheryl is but I
can completely see people beingand wanting to approach you for
the warmth that you have, forthe just welcoming presence you
both have in sharing somethingthat can feel really difficult
(54:49):
and intimate when and vulnerablein that which is writing right.
I know that there are a lot ofpeople that struggle with like,
oh my God, who's going to be thefirst person to read this?
And I could definitely seewanting to approach both of you
with just such a an empatheticand kind and welcoming the
(55:10):
people that you are.
I just I think people are goingto be lucky to be able to work
with you.
So it's been an absolutepleasure having the opportunity
to talk with both of you.
I'm going to thank ourlisteners tonight for coming in
for another episode of you OnlyGo Once On behalf of my
fantastic, amazing, wonderful,loving co-host, cheryl Cantafio,
(55:33):
and myself, eileen Grimes,thank you for being here and we
will see you all next time.
Take care Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.