November 28, 2023 • 64 mins
Join us on an enticing journey of body and mind with the extraordinary Dae Spiral. Dae, a 34-year-old queer and trans artist, meditator, and body piercer, brings a unique perspective to our discussion. He sheds light on his fascinating experiences with body piercing, energy absorption, and his interest in the healing arts. Immerse yourself in his captivating exploration of sound as a potent tool for meditation and relaxation. And prepare to be moved as Dae recounts his 10-day silent meditation retreat during the pandemic, a transformative journey that unfolds in profound ways.
Journey deeper as Dae imparts his intriguing insights into the spiritual practice of suspension. Discover a world where individuals hang from hooks in their skin, and the significant physical and spiritual implications it carries. Dae's personal experiences and his practice of suspending outdoors add a new dimension to this intimate ritual. The sacred origins of suspension, the respect it commands, and the physical scars it leaves behind, all make for a fascinating exploration. As we traverse Dae's spiritual landscape, we also delve into his experiences with sound healing and body ritual, underlining the transformative power of these practices.
End this journey on a reflective note, as Dae shares how he navigated the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. Dae's exploration of Vipassana meditation and its connection to music sheds light on the role of a teacher in this discipline and the healing power of sound. His journey from chaos to clarity during these trying times and his subsequent work in sound healing is a testament to his resilience. This conversation with Dae Spiral is an exploration of spirituality, healing, and transformation, leaving you inspired and enriched.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dae Spiral (00:02):
Hi, I'm Dae Spiral.
I hope, when you look back onyour life, you only compare
yourself to your past self,because you only go once.
Cheryl Cantiafio (00:17):
Hello, hello, hello.
Welcome everyone to this week'sepisode of you Only Go Once.
I'm Cheryl Cantafio, here withmy fantastic co-host, Eileen
Grimes, and we have our nextspecial guest.
Eileen Grimes (00:32):
Thanks, cheryl.
So today we have a specialguest that I'm very excited
about.
We have Dae Spiral here.
So Dae is a 34-year-old queerand trans artist and a meditator
who just so happened to sign upfor a 10-day silent meditation
retreat.
The same week the pandemiccaused most of the country to
(00:52):
shut down.
Talk about timing.
Dae has a professionalbackground in body piercing and
rose to become an expert in hisfield, only to find himself
miserable and sick from stress.
He came to find that he wassubject to the transference of
energy of the people that he waspiercing all day and began to
develop an interest in thehealing arts while looking for
ways to feel better himself.
(01:13):
Sound is a tool that aids inmeditation and relaxation, both
physically and energetically,after finding great comfort and
profound healing.
With this modality pairingperfectly with his lifelong love
of singing and creating musicwith the guitar piano, it became
Dae's mission to help otherstruly heal with intentional
presence and sound.
I always add a little bitbecause I'm just so excited and
(01:38):
we know each other and I havemet you through actually both
piercing and sound.
It feels like an incrediblegift to be able to shine a light
on you and have you be able toshare your story with our
listeners here today.
I'm just so grateful to haveyou here with us, so welcome.
Dae Spiral (01:59):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited to be here.
Eileen Grimes (02:02):
Yeah.
So, gosh, there are so manypieces to your story, right,
which is one incredible, and wewere talking before, so we don't
do video, but Dae has anamazing shirt on right now.
Happy fall y'all.
Yep, I'm feeling it.
You know what?
I went to Huckleberries todayand I didn't know what I was
(02:27):
going to make for dinner, but Ijust went around and I was like,
oh my gosh, I want thosecolorful carrots and I want some
yams, and like I just foundstuff and made a stew and my
daughter and I were just sittingand eating it and it was
fantastic and just everythingthat I wanted.
So I am very much living in thefall world that we are
currently experiencing here,even though I need to do a lot
(02:48):
of leaf pickup soon, but that'sokay.
Dae Spiral (02:51):
It's definitely soup mode.
Soup mode is activated?
Cheryl Cantiafio (02:54):
Yes, soup mode is activated, for sure.
Yes, yep.
Oh, I just found a new recipefor a apple cheddar soup, which
also is an onion soup and I waslike aw, so anyway bought all
the ingredients for that, sothat could be either awesome or
fondue, depending on how well itcomes out.
So either way, I'm excitedbecause it's a new soup, because
(03:18):
usually I relegate to likechicken noodle or butternut
squash, or there's one that haslike tortellini and sausage in
it, which is super yummy, sothat sounds amazing.
Eileen Grimes (03:31):
I think you might have to do a behind the scenes
thing, right?
Cheryl Cantiafio (03:34):
Yeah, yeah, watch my kitchen just be
splattered with.
The first time I made abutternut squash soup I had to
clean it from the ceilingbecause I didn't realize it was
like her ploping and it went tothe ceiling, it went into our
fan.
I was like, oh Carol, yeah, itwas a mess, but luckily I
cleaned it and it turned out tobe really good.
(03:54):
But it was much more and Ilearned you know, put the cover
on, like, don't, don't rely onyour eyes to do this, because
you get distracted easily.
So, yes, so I live for soupseason, so it's incredible.
Eileen Grimes (04:11):
Well, you have to also.
Just can you share that recipethe butternut squash one with me
All right back to Dae, sorry,so no, it's totally fine.
So obviously so.
We we met when you werepiercing.
That was one of the sort ofprimary modalities of things
that you were doing at the time.
What got you into body piercing?
(04:34):
How did that kind of start foryou?
Dae Spiral (04:36):
Well, I got into body piercing because I was
getting piercings.
I was getting piercings from aclose friend of mine who had
just finished his apprenticeshipand we had actually worked
together.
We had worked together atSubway.
We were working the night shiftat Subway together in a college
town, which means that theSubway was open till 3am.
So from like from like midnightto two, it was kind of dead,
(05:00):
and then, as the bar started tolet out to 2, 30, we would just
be slammed with like drunkcollege kids.
Sure, it's been a lot of spent alot of idle time together and
developed a friendship.
And then he left Subway and hewent on to work at a tattoo and
piercing shop and began apiercing apprenticeship.
And then, after you know awhile in his apprenticeship he
was piercing people and I waslike, well, I'm gonna go get
(05:22):
pierced by you because we'refriends.
And when I would get piercingsI would just ask questions.
I was like so curious and Iwould be like what is that for?
Why are you doing like that?
What does that tool do?
What are you doing now?
And he would like explain everystep of the way, because we
were good friends and I'd sayafter like maybe five or six of
these you know visits where Iwould get pierced, and we would
(05:42):
kind of like shoot the shit andhe would like explain things to
me.
Then he would be like do youwant to learn how to do this?
Eileen Grimes (05:48):
You're asking me a lot of questions.
Dae Spiral (05:50):
And I'm basically teaching you how to do this and
I need help around here.
So it was kind of like rightplace, right time.
I literally had nothing.
I had no plans for my life.
I was just bumming around acollege town working in fast
food and so I started.
I was like, yes, yes, I wouldlove to learn how to do
something I would love to trade.
So it was just kind ofserendipitous that I ended up
(06:12):
doing it.
But it was after severalexperiences, including a
suspension, that really pulledme more into like a spiritual
space about it.
In the beginning it was reallyshallow, it was kind of like
surface level.
At first I was like piercingslook, that looks like it would
be terrible to do.
Eileen Grimes (06:32):
It looks painful, can I do?
Dae Spiral (06:33):
that.
Am I tough enough to do that, Iwonder if I can do that.
And then it was also about likepeople who had piercings.
They looked really tough Atthat time.
I was just in the beginning ofmy gender journey, so as a trans
person, I was just starting tolive as male and I was just
starting to kind of own mymasculinity in a different way
and present differently.
(06:53):
And it felt like a way to likeappear more masculine and appear
more tough.
I've also never felt tough, sothe fact that I could maybe look
tough was like kind of a plusfor me.
Yeah, totally, I could likehold my own a little and be
protected in the world.
If I just looked tough.
So it was kind of like.
It was kind of like just an act.
At first it was like a costume,it was like a performance.
Cheryl Cantiafio (07:14):
It was a fashion.
Dae Spiral (07:17):
It was just a fashion statement.
But once I had a suspension waswhen that all changed, and
suspensions are kind of intense.
I don't know if either of y'allhave seen photos of what
suspensions are like.
Eileen Grimes (07:29):
I have, so can you describe what that means or
what that?
Oh, okay, looks like.
Cheryl Cantiafio (07:35):
Yeah, the light bulb went off, but yeah,
just explain it, because that isall right Go Go, go, go, go, go
, go, go, go, go, go, go Go.
Dae Spiral (07:42):
As somebody who's both experienced it and
facilitated it and has, you know, at one point I had never seen
it before and saw it for thefirst time.
In that moment, when I hadnever seen it before and saw it
for the first time, it totallyfreaked me out.
I was like sure you know it,like gave me the like.
I was like really, I made meuncomfortable to see.
So suspension is when peoplehang from hooks in their skin
(08:04):
and there's lots of differentways that it's done, but it, you
know it traditionally is froman indigenous practice called
the Sundance, and there areother.
There are other indigenouspractices that involve piercings
and, and you know, body ritual,but the Sundance specifically
was about making a, making awound in your body and pulling
against a tree.
So it would be like a reallytiny like.
(08:25):
It would be like a littlelittle pinch of skin from like
the chest, maybe it was donewith like a really sharp, you
know, stick or thorn.
You know a primitive piercingneedle right, yeah, nature's
piercing needle and the ritualwas that the, it was a, it was a
coming of age ritual.
You would, you would pull, youwould have the, this thorn or
(08:47):
whatever, tied with a twine andthen that was tied to a tree and
you would pull against it,against the tree, until
eventually it worked loose.
And the indigenous practicessometimes days, you know, people
would be in this ritual andworking, and working, and
working until finally it breaksfree.
But the more modern version ofthat is much less ritual, much
less spiritual.
Again, it's kind of shallow,but it's.
(09:07):
It's again, you know, a rite ofpassage in a way and a way to
get the body to a differentstate, to an altered state,
right.
When we do these intensepiercings I mean there are large
gauge piercings in the body itcan send the body into a state,
a state of shock, right, and inthat state of shock you can go
(09:30):
between between worlds.
Fakir Musafar is an importantfigure in the body modification
industry and he's somebody whois considered the grandfather of
the modern piercing movementand he is really one of the main
people who brought suspensioninto mainstream because of his
experiences in South Dakota onnative land.
(09:52):
He had, his neighbors werenative people and he went to
school with native people and helearned about their rituals.
They shared rituals with himand taught him about things and
then he practiced them on hisown, all by himself in the 50s.
So you know, it was reallyreally strange then.
But slowly, as as it's becomemore and more popularized, more
and more people have beenfascinated by it.
(10:13):
It's become, you know, more ofa phenomenon that the mainstream
world takes part in.
But I think I feel like it'simportant to say, you know, with
all of that, that it is asacred, indigenous practice,
first and foremost, and that'swhat's inspired, you know, the
whole movement from here.
Eileen Grimes (10:30):
Yeah, and I appreciate that you share that
too.
From the Just understanding,history and sacred traditions
too right, and where things comefrom, it's really incredibly
important just to see how thingsbecame as they are and the
meaning behind it as it, asyou're experiencing some of
these things too, and so Idefinitely want to hear about
(10:53):
your experience with that aswell, because obviously it was
something big for you as youwere going through that.
Dae Spiral (11:00):
It was really, really impactful.
To that I would like to say theSundance comes from the Mandan
and Lakota tribes.
Kadavi is called the Dance ofthe Birdens, which comes from
Sri Lanka and Southeast Asiantraditions.
And then there's tons of otherindigenous cultures that have
piercing traditions.
That's really where this modernpiercing movement that we see,
(11:22):
you know.
You just see everybody's gotnose piercings, everybody's got
little ear piercings.
That came from something sodifferent and so important and
sacred.
So it's important to speak onthat.
But my suspension experience Iwould not intend to suspend.
The day that I suspended I wentto watch people suspend.
I was just a piercer with mypiercer friend.
It was like, hey, I have afriend who's doing suspensions
(11:44):
at his shop.
So we traveled, you know, wedrove like an hour and a half to
our friend's studio.
It was after hours, you know.
We had like a couple of peoplewho had agreed to do suspensions
.
It was really beautiful.
They put like paper over allthe windows so nobody could see
in.
It was just like a private, youknow just us in the space and
you know, whoever wanted to goup got to pick whatever music
was playing when they, when theydid the suspension, which was
(12:04):
you know everybody's differentright we all had different kinds
of music that we want to listento.
And then you know, I'm watchingpeople go up and my friend
comes up to me and he's like, OK, when are you going up?
And I was like, well, I didn'tplan on going up today.
Also, you know, you do have topay for the supplies, and at
that time I was broke, not beingresponsible with money, and I
was like I take a while, youknow, and not Right.
And he was like nah, it's not abig deal, I'm your, my friend,
(12:28):
I'll take care of it, doesn'tmatter, let's go up, what do you
want to do?
And I was like I'm really,though I was not, it's not
prepared to not prepare myselffor this yeah.
I was like, nah, come on, whatare you thinking?
And I was like, well, if I didgo up I would do a lotus
position, which you know,there's all different ways that
you can do the hooks on the body, but that one was two through
the back, two through the topsof the thighs and two through
(12:49):
like the sides of the leg, soyou're kind of like sitting out.
Of all of the different bodypositions, I saw that one seemed
the most comfortable to me.
I know that sounds really weirdbecause there's like a lot of
piercings.
But I didn't know.
I was trying to likeconceptualize, like what is this
going to feel like?
How am I going to?
It's just my skin, yeah.
So I was like maybe having morepoints would be smarter to have
(13:12):
it like more evenly distributed.
Eileen Grimes (13:14):
Yeah.
Dae Spiral (13:15):
Now, looking back, I've done I've done multiple
point suspensions like thatseveral times and I've done the
two in the back and for anybodylistening, two in the back is
also totally fine to start with.
It really is not.
I'd say the me going for six wasprobably not the best idea at
once, but I did that, so I satfor six piercings in my body.
We put hooks in, connected itto rope that is specially tied.
(13:38):
I mean, these are like rockclimbers in terms of like the
knowledge that you have to haveabout rigging and weight-bearing
ropes and like the specialcarabiners and all the stuff.
So I had a couple of veryexperienced people walking me
through that.
It's not just like tie a knotand then you're done.
Cheryl Cantiafio (13:57):
It's very important.
The knots are very important.
Dae Spiral (14:02):
So, yeah, I had like this team of people that all
were working to help me get setup in this thing, and when they
started to lift me off the grits, it's funny.
It's on YouTube.
You can look up Dae's FirstLotus suspension and you can
watch.
Cheryl Cantiafio (14:14):
I'm definitely not.
Yeah, I have to look at that upnow.
Dae Spiral (14:17):
Yes, but you can see in the video and I'll tell you
when it's about, when I'm aboutto come off the ground, when I'm
about to be completely on theweight of my own skin, there's a
moment where I'm like I don'tthink I can do this, you know,
and I like tell the practitioner.
I'm like I don't know if I cando this.
And he's like just breathe andrelax.
And I was like all right, andI'm just breathing and then I'm
(14:38):
off the ground and then I'mfloating.
Cheryl Cantiafio (14:41):
And.
Dae Spiral (14:41):
I'm like holy shit, I'm here All right.
It doesn't feel great, I willsay it hurts, right Sure.
There's a moment like 60 to 75seconds into the pain where it
starts to change and that iswhere I started to have an out
of thought experience and have ashift in my consciousness.
(15:01):
If I closed my eyes, I couldsee bright, bright, blinding
light.
I opened my eyes, it was justnormal room.
Close my eyes, bright light.
So I was like wow.
I remember there beingexperiences that Fakir had
spoken about too, where he wouldsuspend and see the bright
light.
So as soon as I closed my eyesand saw the bright light, I was
like holy shit, I'm seeing thebright and the same bright light
(15:21):
.
And the pain was replaced withpeace and this feeling of warmth
and comfort and calm and likeeuphoria.
I was a newly out trans person,topless, in a room full of
(15:42):
strangers, and I was socomfortable and happy and safe.
And felt so held and witnessedby the people that were also
witnessing me, and that Iremember closing my eyes and I
remember feeling like I was uptwirling and then I realized
that my friend had just verygently tapped the rig so I
(16:05):
wasn't spinning really fast, Iwas slowly moving just like a
mobile and I was like, wow, thisfeels really cool.
And then I remember, afterabout like 20, 30 minutes,
feeling bad because one of myother friends was like holding
my weight.
He's just like holding a ropewith all of my weight on it as
I'm suspending and I'm likesomebody is like responsible for
(16:28):
me right now, like holding onme.
I'm like, okay, I can becomedown.
Cheryl Cantiafio (16:32):
So I stayed up there for like a good half an
hour, but then I was like wow,that was going to be my question
, because you said the first 60to 75 seconds and I was like you
stayed up that long and thennow you just said 20 to 30
minutes and I was like yeah, itblew my mind too, because I was
on the floor like I don't thinkI can do this, you know, and
then just every breath kept Iguess I can take another breath,
(16:53):
I guess I can take anotherbreath, you know and we had the
cure playing, which was awesome.
I just kind of like dissolvedinto the cure.
Sure, wonderful, good choice.
Eileen Grimes (17:04):
I mean, what a profound.
I mean what you just said,though too right, is that just I
can take one more breath?
Yes, I can take one more breathLike that's.
I know I mean, it sounds sosimple and yet it's so
incredible in so much of life tojust think I can take one more
breath.
Dae Spiral (17:23):
Yes, man, powerful, powerful experience, and I've
done it five other times sincethen.
Cheryl Cantiafio (17:30):
Wow, I mean what are the other types of
system.
Now you've got me attentionbecause I'm like.
I know I'm Cheryl, so hold onListeners.
Eileen Grimes (17:39):
I can't see this.
But the whole that Cheryl wenton this very emotional journey
with her face, the whole.
Listen you saw it, you werehere, all right.
Dae Spiral (17:52):
The way to.
Cheryl Cantiafio (17:52):
At first it took me a minute to like catch
up, because when you said, oh,the first time I was suspended,
because you were talking aboutcollege life and stuff like that
, I was like what did you getsuspended from?
And then my brain caught up andI was like, oh, we don't mean
that, we mean the up in the airwith your skin tethered and
right.
Okay, so I caught up and then,for whatever reason, like in my
(18:16):
brain, suspension is just thatthing where you, just you, and I
knew what you meant, like interms of having hopes in your
skin.
The only thing I ever knewabout was that like people
actually do it like down theirspine and they hang that way.
Dae Spiral (18:31):
Yeah, so like if you , you know they're there, which
to me is suspension positions.
Cheryl Cantiafio (18:36):
Yes.
Dae Spiral (18:37):
I mean, you can Google suspension positions and
you'll see there are a lot Someof them are look look more
comfortable than others.
Yeah, the one that I saw didnot look comfortable at all, but
people were like, oh that wasgreat.
Cheryl Cantiafio (18:48):
Thanks, and I was like look.
So the Lotus one seems tamecompared to what I've seen, so I
would love for you to share,like the other.
Sure yeah.
Dae Spiral (18:59):
Yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio (18:59):
Like whatever else you've done, because that's
fascinating.
Dae Spiral (19:02):
I mostly have done variations on the Lotus and then
the, the two in the back.
There are all sorts of namesfor them.
Some of the names aren't great,so I'll just call that one, the
two in the back.
But yeah, the Lotus I've done.
I've done a modified Lotus thatwas just the tops of my thighs
and my back, so it was only four, and actually the the my first
(19:27):
one was, yeah, my first one wasthe only one that I've done
inside.
The rest have all been outsideand that is I don't know.
I'm of a camp of professionalpiercers, right, when our
concept of professional piercingincludes a sterile environment,
(19:47):
right, An environment where youcan be in control of how clean
things are.
So there's kind of a gray areawhen we start to talk about
practitioners being outside ofthe studio space, but when we're
in suspension land it's kind oflike I mean it's funny because
piercers and tattooers arealready kind of like the pirates
of society, but then when youget into like suspension
(20:08):
practitioners, they're like thepirates of the piercers Sure.
So it's like they're like youknow, they're like really,
really, really focused on somethings and other things are like
it's wild, you know.
Yeah, so suspending outside Imuch prefer and just being able
(20:30):
to, at least when it's warmer,really cold, it's not the best,
but being able, but you knowthat's its own medicine, right,
being able to be in touch withthe elements.
My second suspension I did.
We had a really cool setup.
We had this like zipline rig.
I told you we had like weirdrock climbing people right.
Eileen Grimes (20:51):
So we have like big nerds and people who like
know the like physics of thisstuff.
Dae Spiral (20:55):
So we had it was a camping trip, so it was like a
bunch of piercers we went on acamping trip and we did
suspensions while we were thereand one of the practitioners had
this zipline mechanism.
So they, you know, had twopoints on two trees, right, a
point on either tree, and thetrees were going over this
really beautiful stream.
So they set it up so that thezipline is on.
You know, there's like a pulleyon those and then I'm, I'm, you
(21:18):
know, doing my.
My hooks are then attached to arig that's attached to the
pulley, so then I can ziplineand be like hanging over the
water and like put my feet inthe water and like touching and
floating over the water while I,while I was suspension
suspended, so that was reallybeautiful.
Like I was having different,different sensations with the
(21:39):
sensation of this, like calmmolasses that, just like covers,
covers my whole body as well,as you know, like the cool
breeze and like sunshine on meand like my toes dipping in the
water and there's like a tree.
I can like touch the leaves ofa tree, you know.
So that was after I, after Iexperienced an outdoor
(21:59):
suspension, I was like I think Ijust want to do it this way
because it's so beautiful.
My friends were there,everybody's quiet.
I just hear birds, you know,it's just like, it's just really
really beautiful way to haveritual in a group blood, letting
you know all of these layersand an altered, altered state of
consciousness.
You know a change.
Not to mention the scars.
(22:21):
Right, I do have a scar.
You have to get scarsafterwards they fade, you know.
But the more you get suspended,the more, the more scars you
have in like this area and belike wow, like when I get
massaged.
I think, does my massagetherapist wonder what all these
scars on my back?
Cheryl Cantiafio (22:37):
She never asks me Right.
Eileen Grimes (22:40):
I mean, that would be a tough one to be like.
What would I say to?
Dae Spiral (22:45):
somebody.
Have you ever seen a suspensionRight?
We have to go into the wholething, right?
Eileen Grimes (22:50):
Exactly, yeah, oh , my goodness.
Well, I would be fascinated tosee one in person.
That's ever something.
So you just also very fine Ifit's a very intimate experience,
that is meant to be withfriends only, and I very much
understand and respect that also, so I would never want to go
(23:11):
into something like that asbeing just a I don't know weird
observer of you know, likethere's you know.
Dae Spiral (23:19):
I think that with suspension it's understood that
there's probably going to bepeople who want to watch.
You know, I mean it's you know,in certain settings, right?
I mean, I think that there aresome people who are like I want
a private.
I want a private suspension.
I just want my practitionerthere, or like my special people
there, but I think majority ofpeople are like I'm aware that
this looks weird.
(23:40):
Yeah, okay, you want to watch?
Yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio (23:43):
Come check it out.
I have to control my face.
Dae Spiral (23:46):
Yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio (23:48):
I would have to control my face because I'm
whoa yeah, that would be.
You know, I'd have to wear amask or something just because I
wouldn't want to be like.
I wouldn't want to changepeople's minds and go like, oh
my God, how bad does this look.
And oh my God, now I'm in painbecause now I'm realizing
because her face.
So I would be super curious.
Eileen, I'm in the camp, I'llask anything.
(24:08):
I'll be like what is that thing?
How do you do?
Eileen Grimes (24:09):
that yeah, Bubble , bubble, bubble, bubble, bubble
bubble.
Cheryl Cantiafio (24:11):
Oh, totally yeah.
Would I actually do it?
No, but I applaud people thatdo it because there is that
peace of mind, right.
It's a different way ofmeditation and, and you know,
getting in touch withspirituality and stuff like that
.
Dae Spiral (24:27):
Right.
Cheryl Cantiafio (24:29):
And I know myself well enough that I would
see one needle and I would belike have a good day, yeah.
Eileen Grimes (24:35):
I'm going to go.
Cheryl Cantiafio (24:36):
I'm going to go somewhere else, that's good.
Dae Spiral (24:38):
Okay, very, very fair.
Good for you.
Eileen Grimes (24:41):
Awesome.
Yeah Well, I love the idea ofthe transcendence, too into it
being a spiritual healing right,like I think, for sure, to me,
that's the, that's the amazingpart of it, that I would like to
be witness to, that experienceof someone else.
Yeah Right, having having thatin that moment, I just think I
(25:04):
feel like that would be sobeautiful to to see you know.
Yeah, so that's that for me,like that's the.
Yes, there's definitely themechanics of all of it, for sure
, and understanding and seeingthat, but also when you add into
it this whole other part thatyou can't necessarily, I don't
necessarily see this, but I knowthis person is going through
(25:28):
something bigger than what'sexisting in this room I just I
feel like that's amazing.
So.
Dae Spiral (25:34):
There's this point in suspending where, like I
spoke to, where you have to, youhave to let go.
Where you have to, just youhave to, really you have to let
go.
You have to release, you have,you can't.
You have to just trust my.
The people took care of me.
I got things where they'resupposed to be.
Trusting is like tied right, myskin can hold me.
(25:55):
That's the most amazing part isthat your skin can hold you.
Your skin is so strong.
Cheryl Cantiafio (26:01):
Like our body is so strong.
Yeah, yeah, that is amazing.
Dae Spiral (26:06):
Like the fact that the sundance you know the
sundance people would have topull on their skin for days,
sometimes Like that's amazing,it is.
That's just so wild to me.
And so there's this.
I think there's this part aboutlike trusting my body, trusting
that my body is going to get methrough this.
That that is is a really bigpiece of like the reason I keep
(26:27):
doing it.
You know the exercise it's likewhy would I?
I mean it does hurt.
You know, like the before andafter, the euphoria that fucking
still hurts.
You know it's awful.
Can I cuss?
Yeah, yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio (26:39):
Yeah, oh, absolutely.
I was like oh shit, I droppedan.
F bomb Okay.
Dae Spiral (26:46):
So you know, there is still pain involved, but the
payoff of the change and the waythat it changes me afterwards,
I think, is, I think that's whyI keep going back and doing it.
You know, it's that thatpractice in letting go and
relinquishing control and andjust trusting, just trusting my
(27:06):
skin for, you know, 20 minutesor whatever, Wonderful.
Eileen Grimes (27:09):
I mean it's incredible, I don't know.
There, you know, as as I amexploring what that means, I
mean I have been through mywhole life and just spirituality
and whatever that looks likefor you.
You know there's, there is thelike.
What is it?
The physical self, what is thethis?
The conscious self, what islike?
(27:29):
What are all of these pieces?
And that brings every singlepart of it into that just
knowing and into the forefront,right when you're, you have the
feeling of the physical, but youalso experience this piece and
it's just like these.
It's a highly multi-dimensionalexperience of all of that all
(27:52):
at the same time, and I justfind that fascinating and
amazing.
Dae Spiral (27:56):
Yeah, agreed.
Yeah, you know we have.
We have so many bodies.
We have a physical body, wehave an emotional body, we have
a spiritual body, we have a painbody.
Right, we have all of thesebodies.
I don't even know how manybodies we have.
We have a bunch.
So the fact that sometimes wecan link parts of our bodies or
like get into different partsthrough other parts fascinating
(28:16):
dance.
Eileen Grimes (28:18):
It absolutely is so because I want to get into
this too.
You know, going from, you know,having that kind of experience
and really starting to lead youinto sort of that spiritual side
and exploration, how did thattake you from where you were
then into sound healing?
Dae Spiral (28:37):
Yeah, well, I had an additional experience in terms
of like body ritual and Iactually got to experience
ritual with Fakir.
Fakir passed away in 2018, butbefore he did, he was still
doing rituals all the time andpiercings all the time.
He has a piercing school in SanFrancisco that is still run in
his honor, you know, after he'spassed, and so that was 2016.
(29:01):
I did a ritual with him and hispartner, cleo, and they run
these rituals and she's stillrunning them, even even after
he's passed on, and they'recalled spirit and flesh rituals.
And you sign up and he, youknow they.
At that time he had this, thisreally beautiful space in
downtown San Francisco.
(29:23):
It was just beautiful, so cool,just just this huge altar space
and this beautiful, like sacredspace set up and you would go
in and you would sit and youknow, once you had signed up for
the ritual and gotten all thepaperwork and consent form and
doing all the like, blah, blah,blah, blah.
And then you go in and he likegives me, like has all these
serongs set out?
(29:44):
You have to like change and likeget in your serong and like
there's a trance drummerstarting to drum, and then there
are people calling in the fourdirections and now we're in a
ritual, like we're having aritual you know, and that was
the first time that I got toexperienced group ritual in this
like really organized fashion,where it was like it really did
(30:06):
feel like a like a choreographeddance, like everyone had a role
or a responsibility, was eitherthere to participate in the
ritual or was there to supportthe people participating in the
ritual.
I recognize some of the guidesand leaders as being piercers in
the industry, but they werethere to help facilitate this
ritual, so that was kind of cool.
It's like, oh, I know, it's verynice and you know, for me and
(30:29):
my partner we both participatedwe were on the cusp of moving
from Georgia to Washington, soit was kind of a.
We had this ritual as like awell, here's the beginning of
this new chapter.
You know, new lives together isworking in Washington and
Seattle.
At that time you can.
I also experienced alteredstates of consciousness and got
(30:51):
to play in these altered statesof consciousness, which was
really fun.
I bet yeah, yeah, so just beliterally just dancing, like
having somebody drumming.
And then we did, we did.
Do you know?
If you wanted to do piercings,you could do piercings, but you
could also just participate inthis ritual.
I did little like little baby,like 14 gauge needles right here
(31:16):
, Okay, and they had like littletiny hooks with like little
strings and just for pulling,not for like hanging your body
weight on Right, and my partnerdid as well.
And then I took excuse me, Itook a vow of silence through
cheek spears, which is apractice where they pierce, they
pierce, you pierce here andhere.
Eileen Grimes (31:36):
And it's the spear that goes through.
Dae Spiral (31:37):
And then there's like these really ornamental
ends, okay, and you wear that asa as a vow of silence, as a
mark that I'm not going to speakat all during this ritual.
Wow, I remember feeling likeseeing the the cheek spears and
just immediately seeing thempreviously right and being like
I have I have to do that and Ididn't know why I it wasn't like
(31:59):
I want to have my cheekspierced.
You know it's like I as apiercer, I know that is a very
painful piercing, it's aterrible piercing.
Cheryl Cantiafio (32:05):
I bet it's very very difficult to heal.
Dae Spiral (32:09):
So many complications can happen.
So I was like I don't.
It wasn't that I wanted to getmy cheeks pierced.
It was that something waspulling me to do that.
I didn't understand that.
It was a vow of silence.
I just knew that I was going todo that.
And so, you know, at thisritual we're, like you know,
signing up for what we're doingand I was like I'm doing this
and Fakir is like, just so, youknow, that's a vow of silence,
(32:30):
so that means the whole ritual.
You're not allowed to sayanything Like all right.
Yes, that's my medicine forthis ritual too.
Eileen Grimes (32:36):
So I did that.
Dae Spiral (32:38):
And in the ritual space there are several piercers
that Fakir has designated fordifferent things.
You know, some people weredoing the chest hooks, some
people were doing hooks in theirback instead, and then Fakir
was the one doing the cheekpiercings, and so I got to get
pierced by Fakir.
Wow, and the way that he did itwas I still don't.
(32:59):
I mean, I was in a trance state, of course, right.
Eileen Grimes (33:01):
We had the drums going so that makes sense.
Dae Spiral (33:03):
But I didn't feel it , it didn't hurt at all, it felt
like nothing.
I mean like I felt it, butthere wasn't pain.
Yeah, it was really, reallyblew my mind and I'm still like
I guess it was the trance stateI was in, it was just a magic
piercing?
I don't know.
But he grabbed my head, grabbedmy head, like on either side of
my temples, and looked me deadin the eyes, and then he grabbed
(33:26):
my cheek and did the piercings.
And then he did this cutelittle like, like, just like
little palm, tap right on, likewhere my third eye is, and he
just like boop and like he likesent me off.
He would like do that and likesend you off.
Okay, now you go dance, you gotwirl around and have fun in the
ritual space.
Wow, and so I did.
I had never been in a spacewhere I was told to dance, go
(33:50):
dance.
You know it's like just likewithout people, like wanting me
to be sexy, or like, you know,trying to flirt with people, or
like being in a club.
You know like, just go dance,like dance, your dance with your
energy.
You know like dance with yourwounds, dance with your pain,
dance with the ritual dance.
And so I did.
I mean, shook my body about youknow, and moved in rhythm until
(34:13):
I realized that I didn't give ashit, I wasn't caring about
what I looked like, I was justin this soup with everyone, we
were all just dancing, we're allin our like orange, orange
wraps, and this like palpableenergy in the air of this, of
ritual, of humans exploring theworld, exploring, witnessing,
(34:35):
bleeding, having joy and pain,and this symphony of this is
life, this is what we do, thisis being human and it just being
such a powerful experience.
And then, at the end, closing,closing the circle, and then
having a feast.
They had a beautiful meal forall of us.
(34:55):
We had at this long, long table, just one really long table
with all of us and shared, youknow, shared a meal and shared
space and energy.
And that Sparks something in me, especially the fact that music
was involved, that there wasthis drumming element happening
(35:15):
in the background the whole time.
That definitely affected mystate you know that definitely
influenced me.
You know, fast forward to themeditation retreat that I went
on in 2020.
And that is 10 days of silence,wow.
Eileen Grimes (35:32):
I mean, I'll be honest, I so right now that
sounds glorious a little bit tome as a mom, yeah, a single mom,
with a, you know, with my twokids, a full time.
You know, mom to them, lovethem dearly, and also.
Dae Spiral (35:59):
Quiet, quiet would be nice.
Eileen Grimes (36:01):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm such an introvert too that
I'm like I need that also tojust feed myself and things I
could.
I'll be honest 10 days withthat I'm sure 10 days is
actually can be difficult andthere's certainly a journey that
you have to go on.
As as that progresses and overthat 10 day period, I am not
(36:25):
going to claim like, yeah, oh,10 days, that sounds easy,
Obviously super easy to do.
But yeah, that must have beensuch an incredible experience
for you.
Where was it?
Do you, did you?
Do you go somewhere for it?
Dae Spiral (36:40):
Okay, so it's.
The center that I went to ishere in Washington.
It's in on Alaska, washington.
The method of meditation that Ilearned is called the Pashna,
and the Pashna technique is thetechnique that the Buddha used
to reach enlightenment.
So it's just one meditationtechnique that we're taught.
(37:02):
We're taught like a, you'retaught like a lead up, like a
practice version of it in thefirst three days and then at the
fourth day you start likeactually learning the rest of
the technique and you take a vowof noble silence, which is that
you don't speak, but you alsopromise to not try to
(37:23):
communicate to anybody at all.
So you don't try to like makeeye contact with people and be
like you know or like your foodand be like this food is good or
this food is bad.
You know, like nothing, don'tyou know?
Try not to make eye contactwith people, noble silence.
So it's like this, this promisethat you make where you're, I'm
going to, I'm going to work andto create an environment that
(37:46):
you, like you were alone, likeyou're totally alone, but
obviously you know it's notreally feasible for just you to
be at the center.
So there, are a bunch of otherpeople here, but it's you know,
we're trying to create anenvironment that you were in
solitude.
Cheryl Cantiafio (38:01):
So you couldn't play music, you
couldn't do any like nothing toread books like anything, just
sit in silence.
Dae Spiral (38:11):
You agree to join you.
You promise that you won'tbring anything, so like you hand
over.
You hand over your phone andyour car keys and they lock them
in, like this special securearea.
You can leave if you want, butthey just they do that so that
it's it's tricky, you know.
Say you want to do this, we'regoing to help you do this.
Cheryl Cantiafio (38:29):
You really want to do this, okay.
Dae Spiral (38:31):
If you really want to leave, they'll give you your
keys and you can leave, but theyreally try to, not.
They were like are you sureyou're already here?
You did all this work, you saidright.
So, yeah, I handed over my keysand my wallet and my you know
phone.
Yeah, don't bring any books,Don't bring any journals.
You don't bring any talismancrystals, special things,
(38:56):
anything which was hard for mebecause I love crystals.
Cheryl Cantiafio (39:02):
Yeah, that's a true journey.
Dae Spiral (39:04):
I left them in the car.
I was like they're coming withme in the car.
They'll stay in the parking.
Eileen Grimes (39:08):
They have amazing crystals, just if you probably
want to know.
Yes, it's very true, I'm acrystal cuddler.
Dae Spiral (39:15):
Yeah, so yeah, the hand, everything over.
And the first day I rememberfeeling like can I still talk?
Am I supposed to be silent now?
But, you can still talk the veryfirst day.
You're like, you know, gettingyour stuff.
They give you, bring you toyour room and it's really really
lovely.
So the little nerdy backgroundstuff.
(39:36):
The center is only run bydonation.
It's totally free, it costsnothing to do.
It's only run by donation andyou can only donate if you've
done a course already.
So it's only what they call oldstudents If you've done the
course and you're considered anold student.
So only old students donate.
So it's only run by people whohave benefited from this
(39:57):
meditation practice.
So it's a really cool system.
That's like community based,you know, and so, yeah, the
resource for that is damaorg, ifyou're ever interested in
learning about this.
Eileen Grimes (40:12):
Okay, I am.
Dae Spiral (40:14):
It's very cool and so, yeah, it's delicious vegan
food.
So delicious, so good.
Me and my partner make thistrip.
My partner went on thismeditation retreat, has been on
it twice and when I met him hehad just finished one and he was
like such a like Zen person.
I was like, what is it aboutthis person?
Eileen Grimes (40:36):
Well, I just did 10 days of silence.
Dae Spiral (40:37):
I did this meditation retreat, I was like
what that is so cool?
It was like when we first metlike we weren't even dating yet.
I was just like getting to knowhim and I remember even back
then thinking like nine yearsago, it was like I want to try
to do that someday.
Eileen Grimes (40:50):
That sounds really hard.
Dae Spiral (40:52):
I want to try and do that someday.
So I made this plan in Novemberof 2019, because you have to
apply like a couple months inadvance and they fill up sort of
fast, so you have to kind oflike, okay, when is the next one
to apply?
You have to like save the dateand I like set all these
reminders and like planned it,signed up for it, and then, yeah
, I went there and while I wasthere, the whole world shut down
(41:17):
.
Eileen Grimes (41:17):
Yeah, fully cow.
I mean talk about timing.
Dae Spiral (41:22):
It was so I mean it was, it was really interesting,
timing right, because thistechnique is teaching you how
everything is.
The only constant is change.
Cheryl Cantiafio (41:34):
Yeah, everything is always changing
Absolutely.
I can't even imagine coming outof 10 days of silence and then
walking into no toilet paper, notoilet paper.
Eileen Grimes (41:45):
It's like there's like a movie.
Cheryl Cantiafio (41:49):
There's a movie called Sean of the Dead.
Yes and right.
So, like you're in this stateof like, whatever, I did this
thing and you do the same thingevery day, right?
So you've come out of thisquiet space and literally like
everybody's in this chaoticspace, but you're still in this
Zen mode and like, all of asudden, it's like, oh, did
something bad happen?
Like what's happening, what'sgoing on?
(42:11):
I can't even that must havebeen.
Dae Spiral (42:14):
It was so wild, it was so wacky, the day before,
the day before the end.
Okay, so you do 10 days ofsilence.
So on the ninth day you breaksilence so that you can
reintegrate with the world.
On the 10th day, because, well,I guess it's technically the you
do 10 days of silence but thenon the 11th day so the last day,
where the last day, you, youare able to speak again.
(42:37):
And I'm very glad for that one,because after speaking again, I
realized that I could feel myvoice and my whole body Like.
Sure, I could feel my voice andI can still feel my voice, like
even in my toes, if I reallyreally focus on it while I'm
speaking.
I can feel it vibratingeverywhere.
But when I first, when I firstspoke, I'm like whoa, whoa, my
(43:00):
body feel weird because I reallydidn't talk the whole time.
There are there are these littlegaps in the day where you can
meet with a teacher and askquestions about the technique,
so you don't have to just sit insilence for the 10 days if
you're like I am confused, Idon't understand something.
You know you can.
There are these like littlebreaks, but I didn't do any of
those.
I OK, there was one night wherethe moon was full and I went
(43:24):
whoa, mama, I just I didn't meanto, but the moon was just using
the middle of nowhere.
The sky was just so beautifuland I just could not.
Well, I just talked and I didnot talk, but that I did break
silence one one time at the moon, but I didn't speak to anybody
but the moon, but yeah, so I gota long track.
(43:45):
I was trying to remember, oh,breaking silence brings us so
the day before breaking silence,the kind of like director of
the property, I guess.
He was the main the main, themain hippie, the main meditator,
yeah, Was like so tomorrow isthe day that everybody, you know
(44:06):
, goes back into the world, andyou know it's important to to
just really cherish the timethat you have right now and the
time that you've had here,because things are going to be
really different when you go outinto the world tomorrow.
And and I really it's importantthat we don't, it's important
that I, that we continue the theyou know boundary or agreement
(44:30):
that we've made for this time.
So we're, you know we're notgoing to discuss what's
happening, but you and you willfind out tomorrow.
You know everyone will gettheir phones back, you'll all be
able to plug back into theworld.
But just know that this is atime that is really really
important to to practice whatyou've learned here in these
past 10 days, like thistechnique is really going to
(44:52):
help you in in in what's, what's, you know what you're about to
walk back in and walk into.
I was like what is happening?
I was really worried, I wasreally scared.
I was like was there like a war?
Is there like a bomb?
Like what?
Is my partner still there?
You know I was.
I was like freaking out.
I didn't even I didn't evenrealize that, you know, because
I knew that COVID had wasstarting to, you know, happen
(45:13):
right, I mean, we had heardthings, but you know, sir,
literally like the second weekof March, like it was the week
that everything shut down inWashington.
Eileen Grimes (45:23):
Oh my gosh Dae.
Dae Spiral (45:25):
So, yeah, I turned my phone on and had a bunch of
texts from my partner sayingthat you know, things are really
crazy right now and to to tryand find toilet paper on the way
home.
Oh, my goodness, and I did.
I stopped in some like middleof nowhere grocery store and
there was no toilet paper, butthere were baby wipes, so I
(45:45):
grabbed as many baby wipes as Icould.
Oh my God, I came home.
Cheryl Cantiafio (45:50):
And that's a book, that is a book Totally.
I mean, yeah, that is just howdo you go from silence to chaos?
In 60 seconds, you know that is, or in 10 days even.
Dae Spiral (46:04):
Yeah, that's been quite a lesson and I mean I feel
like I'm still learning Still aliar lying things that I
learned there, but, but, yeah,that that experience was
powerful because of that, of thesurroundings, because I was in
such a like, I was such a cleanslate.
You know, it's like therewasn't.
(46:24):
When you stop talking, you havea lot of mind chatter, but then
the mind chatter turns intosomething else, it turns into
memories, it turns into pastmind chatter and then, and then
I'm not even sure what'shappening.
I don't know what layer Itapped, it tapped into by the
end there, but I know, I know100% that I saw past lives of
(46:48):
mine.
I know 100% that I had visionsof lives that I that weren't
this life, but they weren't.
They were me, but they weren't,but they weren't me.
And I think that was theweirdest thing.
I'm like the most sober I'veever been and the most like
vegan I've ever been, like avery clean body and yeah, and
(47:14):
and it was.
You know, I always thought, ok,all right, so if, if you know,
past lives are a thing, if it'sreally a thing that we, that our
spirits, are everlasting andcome back in different forms,
you know, if that's really athing I didn't think that I
would see.
I didn't, I don't know.
(47:35):
I didn't think that I wouldexperience what I experienced,
because what I experienced werelike little blips of the end,
like I experienced the end ofone of my lives and I
experienced the the end that Iforced onto another life, and
like, really, I'm going to seethese like this.
These are the visions that Ihave.
Eileen Grimes (47:53):
You know, it's like interesting.
Dae Spiral (47:57):
So, yeah, those, those moments really stand out
as like as this, like telescopethrough dimensions, you know,
along the lines of what we'retalking about here, of these
these in between worlds.
You know that we can sometimestouch or grasp or see like a
(48:17):
just like a pain of you know,looking through a window.
I don't know.
It's yeah I.
That's why I need to go.
Eileen Grimes (48:26):
I need to go now because that's actually why I
for the longest time and I justdon't do anymore because I just
don't but I loved long distancerunning.
So I was doing like marathontraining you sure don't talk to
anybody, well, I mean, I guesssome people do, I was.
I was not one of those runnersthat can go for you know days,
but I, I would you know, had todo like a three hour run or
(48:49):
something like that.
And you're quiet, like it'sjust quiet, and I never I didn't
run with like music or anything, I just I liked to just be.
And you know, the first part ofmy run, the first few miles,
were always like the chatter,chatter, chatter, chatter,
chatter.
I'm like my brain's goingthrough all the stuff and sure I
mean God, anyone, anyone whoknows me, there's a lot of stuff
(49:11):
happening all the time, andthen it's like I ran past that
until it finally got quiet andthat was incredible.
I mean just to sit in the quietand be entirely present.
That for me running wasmeditation, like it just, it
(49:32):
just is, it is.
It was the moment to allow forthose things to quiet and then
to get to this place where I sawthe trees and I saw like I
could smell the air.
I could like everything becameso much more clear when I would
be doing that.
So I can, I can see absolutelythe benefit of that and even
(49:52):
over an extended period of timeto how that could then increase
what that experience looks likeand deepen it even further.
So I'm very interested and Ihave the website up now.
Dae Spiral (50:05):
Yay, yeah, the.
The thing about the teacherthat teaches the Vipassana
technique is that he's alreadypassed on, but he made tapes on
how to teach and they're theystill play the tapes.
So it's the same teacherteaching it the same way.
The assistant teachers are justthere if you have questions,
but they give you the sameanswers.
That he gives you Wow, and his,his name is going to G, and
(50:30):
going to G is also known as thesinging meditation teacher and
in his, in the very in the OK.
So it's like a.
It's like you get up at likefour in the morning.
There's like a bell and you getup and then you start
meditating at like 430 in themorning.
You either do it in your room oryou go to the hall and the main
meditation hall they play thesetapes of him singing in the, in
(50:54):
Pali, which is the samelanguage that the Buddha spoke,
the same language that thistechnique was written in, and
you know it's it's like kind ofgluttural and he's like an older
dude, so it's like really lowand like the first time I heard
I was like what the fuck is this?
This is supposed to be?
Cheryl Cantiafio (51:11):
the meditation music.
That's what we have to meditateto.
Dae Spiral (51:13):
I was like great, this is like a cough.
I was just, I was such a proudabout it.
I was like this is like shit, Idon't like this.
And then I, after a couple ofdays, I continue to go to the
the hall because my roommatewould just sleep and he was
snoring really loud and so I waslike it's hard to meditate
while this is snoring, so I waslike I'll just go to the hall
(51:35):
and then after a couple of daysof doing it and with meditating,
with with the singing happeningin the hall, I realized I was
not annoyed by it at all and Ifound it actually really
peaceful.
It's like a lullaby, it wasjust like so comforting and I
was like I don't understand thewords he's saying at all, but
the way that the vibrations arehitting me is like doing
something to me.
Yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio (51:56):
It sounds like the same way that the the
trance drums hit you yeah.
Dae Spiral (52:01):
Very similar yes.
Cheryl Cantiafio (52:02):
It's that same .
Dae Spiral (52:03):
It's like this frequency resonating, you know,
creating this sound wave ofvibration in me, entrainment
really.
I mean that's the physics.
The physics behind it isentrainment.
But when I, you know, once Igot back, I hyper fixated on the
(52:23):
technique and like learning,and looked up what he was saying
.
I found a translation in thelike on the website, you know,
look up the different morningsand I found the different
morning meditation songs, Ifound the med, I found the
translation.
I was like what is he saying?
He was calling in thedirections.
He's calling in the spirits.
He's calling in the protectionof the land.
(52:45):
He's calling he was, he wascasting a circle, he's casting a
spell the whole time.
He's like right Doing energy,doing energy work making
vibrations in the air so thatthe space around the meditators
would be beneficial formeditating.
Like, and something clickedwith me, with all of like,
realizing all of that, and itwas like music.
It's something about music,there's something about me and
(53:08):
music and I was supposed to dosomething with music and it's
not.
It's not to like.
I'm supposed to be famous forsinging.
I'm supposed to play somethingperfectly.
It's about guiding peoplethrough sound.
That's what I'm supposed to do.
And the more that I come up,came upon that answer, the less
I could deny it and the more Ihad to be like I have to step
into this, I have to continue tomove towards this and started
(53:29):
to find ways to incorporate itinto you know the piercings I
was doing and started to justtake classes and hang the
certificate on my wall in thepiercing room so that people
would ask me what's soundhealing about?
Eileen Grimes (53:40):
That's what I did .
Dae Spiral (53:42):
People started to ask and I was like, cool, it's
working, yeah and yeah.
And then we got to connect anddo some work together and yeah,
now I'm.
Now I'm on my own, I quitpiercing full time and I'm doing
my own thing.
Eileen Grimes (53:55):
Wonderful Good for you.
Thank you, which I mean, I know, for your, for your own healing
and for all of that for you.
That's incredible.
I also felt like it was such agift to be able to work with you
in in that piercing space.
I, truly honestly, I was.
There's a part of me that'slike, ah okay, well, now I find
one, a new piercing, I have tofind someone else, but I was.
(54:16):
I feel like it was a gift to beable to have had that
experience with you.
It really was incredible aswell, as you know the sound
healing that we did and I stilllike I don't want to give it all
away, but there's, there's wassomething that that you were
helping me guide through and Istill use.
(54:37):
I still have my like circle ofpast and present selves that I
still use a piece of me and it'sit's so healing and just what I
need often that I bring thatback a lot.
So thank you for thank you forsharing that.
Dae Spiral (54:57):
Yeah, wow, that's so cool.
The things that happen when I'mdoing sound healing are not
always from me, and that is sucha it just blows my mind that I
like get connected and thenstuff comes through me and I'm
like, well, I was supposed tocome out cool, yeah, and so it's
(55:21):
just so.
It's just so touching to mewhen, when I hear that that you
know was beneficial to you andthat it's been, you know,
powerful for you, that's thankyou for telling me.
That's so cool?
Eileen Grimes (55:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
What are you?
So?
What do you do now with this?
Obviously you're not.
You know you've quit piercing.
I know there was a.
You had a really nice and alsojust such a lovely transition
from that to as you were makingsure that those you were still
working with.
There was a transition fromthat and I I follow Dae so just
like all the time I see whereeven going from the different
(55:55):
social media is.
I'm like, okay, well now Dae'sover here.
Dae Spiral (55:57):
So yeah, be watching everything here.
I figured out, yeah.
Eileen Grimes (56:03):
But anyway, that was just beautiful in the way
that you did that in such a likekind, thoughtful, healing,
intentional way.
And now into this so what?
What are you now doing fulltime and what does that look
like?
Dae Spiral (56:17):
Yeah, so I'm a full time sound practitioner now.
I'm working with people in acouple different capacities so I
do do one on one work.
You know if you want to do asession one on one and I can do
work with lots of modalities tohave.
You know the crystal singingbowls.
I have tuning forks.
Those tend to be my two go tosto working with, like
(56:37):
rebalancing our energy centersor if people have like a
specific issue that they'reworking with, a lot of the times
energy work and sound healingwill help think, help people
with things that Westernmedicine goes.
I don't know what to do you know, a lot of times people are have
an issue and they're likenothing else will help this
thing.
Can we try this?
(56:58):
And I'm like, yeah, we totallycan.
The other things that I'm doingare I do have a couple of free
offerings that I'm doing onsocial media just to, you know,
try to get the word out and totry and gain followers.
And, you know, serve thealgorithm, gods.
I know, right, terrible.
I don't hear it but also makingcustomized tracks for people for
(57:25):
different situations.
So, like right now, I've beenhired to make a track for
someone who's having surgery andthey're actually going to be
partially awake during thesurgery.
They're just doing like a nervecall.
I'm imbuing this track withfrequencies, with vibrations for
(57:47):
healing and intentions, as wellas literally putting like words
in so that she has words tolisten to while that's happening
.
So those are, you know, theofferings that I'm doing in the
world.
Right now I've just finished anintensive mentorship with a
(58:08):
member of the Hawaii SymphonyOrchestra, so I'm incorporating
a lot of things that I'velearned in that and kind of, you
know, redoing some thingsbehind the scenes and I'm going
to, you know, pull the curtainout and, you know, announce and
sort of put new stuff out intothe world.
I'd say by the new year is kindof what I'm playing.
Eileen Grimes (58:26):
Okay Well, I'll be watching, so yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio (58:30):
So how, at that point, how do people
connect with you on social mediaLike where are you?
Dae Spiral (58:34):
Yeah, so you can find my sound healing work at
spiral sound healing onInstagram on Tiktok it's spiral
dot sound dot healing.
And then spiral sound healingdot com is my website.
And then, if you wanted to seeany of my body piercing stuff, I
still have stuff on Daepiercing on my Instagram page.
So, yeah, if you have piercingquestions, I am still doing
(58:58):
professional consulting in thepiercing world.
So I'm consulting with userswho have questions or people who
are concerned, you know,interested in apprenticeships
and that kind of thing.
So you know I can I also doconsulting for folks.
But yeah, we're a couple hats.
But spiral sounds spiral soundhealing is where you can find me
most of the time now.
Eileen Grimes (59:17):
Yeah, I, just having been through a session
with you, I'm looking to expandthat a little bit, and I also.
So again, cheryl knows thisabout me as soon as you start
talking about the things in yourbusiness, I'm like you should
go talk to like a midwives group.
Dae Spiral (59:35):
Yes, Because I feel like there would be.
Eileen Grimes (59:39):
Right like how, how many women go through, I
mean, this experience of birthand everything, and to have that
sort of additional healingpiece through it, right like I
just feel like that would beincredible.
And I'll be honest, I had.
Well, I had a conversationtoday with my one of my parents
(01:00:00):
and just even from you know fromthat there's there is life and
death, and I know there aredeath do laws and things along
the way.
And even the transition of someof that to like I don't like.
These are moments that what anincredibly beautiful and
powerful modality to bring intothat.
(01:00:21):
Yeah, I just feel like thatwould be incredible.
So as soon as you talk aboutsurgery, I'm like OK, here's
like 10 million more ideas.
Yes, I love that, thank you.
Dae Spiral (01:00:30):
I've actually been thinking about trying to trying
to do work with with kids to,because kids are like so down to
make sounds and I feel likethere's a, there's a point where
we lose that and if, like, ifwe can keep that and cultivate
that, then we'll have differenthumans, if we're like not scared
to make, let our sounds comeout, you know?
Yeah, so that's just somethingI'm thinking about, but yeah, I
(01:00:52):
reached out to you a littlewhile ago.
Eileen Grimes (01:00:53):
I was like we need to talk more, because one I
also am.
I'm a pastor, I'm a, I have my,my, whatever license or
whatever that's called.
Dae Spiral (01:01:04):
I've been thinking about getting ordained to.
Eileen Grimes (01:01:07):
Yes, that's what, thank you, there's the word I'm
working also.
Yeah, but I have a few thingsthat I'd like to really start
building up here.
And spoke can, and so Idefinitely want to talk to you
more about some of that.
And and in healing, and whatdoes it mean to be a creator?
So, would love to.
(01:01:28):
Yes, I think I feel like I'msupposed to be talking to you
about some of this stuff soanyway, yes, I'm very excited to
hear one what's upcoming, andwe'll just have to the what's
happening, what you know, we'llhave to wait until the new year
to hear about that, and that'svery OK.
But yeah, I just I'mcontinually inspired by you and
(01:01:52):
everything that you're doing andbringing into this world, and
you know like we talk about thisis you only go once and you are
bringing light into this worldthat needs it.
So so, much, yeah, and to havethis healing impact for others
and even yourself and there'snothing selfish about that in
any way shape or form Right, andyou to be able to do that, as
(01:02:16):
well as you need to for others,you have to be able to give that
to yourself, and I'm just I'mso grateful to know you, to have
fallen into your sphere ofexistence and knowing, and I
just can't wait to keep seeingall the amazing things you're
going to be doing.
Dae Spiral (01:02:33):
Oh, this has been so lovely.
I'm so thankful that I'vegotten to spend this time with
you all.
It's been really nice.
It's been so nice to connectwith you again.
Eileen Grimes (01:02:40):
It's been way too long since we've seen each
other Absolutely chat more often.
Dae Spiral (01:02:46):
I would love to connect with you more.
Cheryl Cantiafio (01:02:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think we need to
bring you back in 2024 becausewe need to hear the rest of
where everything is going.
Dae Spiral (01:02:57):
Yes, I would love to .
Cheryl Cantiafio (01:02:59):
I just thoroughly enjoyed your journey.
I've enjoyed listening to youtalk about where you've been,
where you're going, and,honestly, I feel like this is
going to be one of thosecliffhanger podcast episodes
where people are going to belike well, wait a minute.
What happens next?
(01:03:19):
Right, what happens next?
So I can't wait and thank youso much for what.
We're honored that you sharedyour story with us, because this
was just been I.
You know, I could have beenhere another two hours honestly
just going tell us more.
Dae Spiral (01:03:35):
What is this?
My face hurts from smiling.
It's so wonderful.
Eileen Grimes (01:03:40):
We do.
Dae Spiral (01:03:44):
It's a project out.
Cheryl Cantiafio (01:03:45):
Oh my goodness , alright, everyone.
So, dave, thank you so much onbehalf of Eileen Grimes and
myself.
This concludes another episodeof you.
Only go once, take care, seeyou next time.
Bye.
Hi, I'm Dae Spiral.
I hope, when you look back onyour life, you only compare
yourself to your past self,because you only go once.
Cheryl Cantiafio (00:17):
Hello, hello, hello.
Welcome everyone to this week'sepisode of you Only Go Once.
I'm Cheryl Cantafio, here withmy fantastic co-host, Eileen
Grimes, and we have our nextspecial guest.
Eileen Grimes (00:32):
Thanks, cheryl.
So today we have a specialguest that I'm very excited
about.
We have Dae Spiral here.
So Dae is a 34-year-old queerand trans artist and a meditator
who just so happened to sign upfor a 10-day silent meditation
retreat.
The same week the pandemiccaused most of the country to
(00:52):
shut down.
Talk about timing.
Dae has a professionalbackground in body piercing and
rose to become an expert in hisfield, only to find himself
miserable and sick from stress.
He came to find that he wassubject to the transference of
energy of the people that he waspiercing all day and began to
develop an interest in thehealing arts while looking for
ways to feel better himself.
(01:13):
Sound is a tool that aids inmeditation and relaxation, both
physically and energetically,after finding great comfort and
profound healing.
With this modality pairingperfectly with his lifelong love
of singing and creating musicwith the guitar piano, it became
Dae's mission to help otherstruly heal with intentional
presence and sound.
I always add a little bitbecause I'm just so excited and
(01:38):
we know each other and I havemet you through actually both
piercing and sound.
It feels like an incrediblegift to be able to shine a light
on you and have you be able toshare your story with our
listeners here today.
I'm just so grateful to haveyou here with us, so welcome.
Dae Spiral (01:59):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited to be here.
Eileen Grimes (02:02):
Yeah.
So, gosh, there are so manypieces to your story, right,
which is one incredible, and wewere talking before, so we don't
do video, but Dae has anamazing shirt on right now.
Happy fall y'all.
Yep, I'm feeling it.
You know what?
I went to Huckleberries todayand I didn't know what I was
(02:27):
going to make for dinner, but Ijust went around and I was like,
oh my gosh, I want thosecolorful carrots and I want some
yams, and like I just foundstuff and made a stew and my
daughter and I were just sittingand eating it and it was
fantastic and just everythingthat I wanted.
So I am very much living in thefall world that we are
currently experiencing here,even though I need to do a lot
(02:48):
of leaf pickup soon, but that'sokay.
Dae Spiral (02:51):
It's definitely soup mode.
Soup mode is activated?
Cheryl Cantiafio (02:54):
Yes, soup mode is activated, for sure.
Yes, yep.
Oh, I just found a new recipefor a apple cheddar soup, which
also is an onion soup and I waslike aw, so anyway bought all
the ingredients for that, sothat could be either awesome or
fondue, depending on how well itcomes out.
So either way, I'm excitedbecause it's a new soup, because
(03:18):
usually I relegate to likechicken noodle or butternut
squash, or there's one that haslike tortellini and sausage in
it, which is super yummy, sothat sounds amazing.
Eileen Grimes (03:31):
I think you might have to do a behind the scenes
thing, right?
Cheryl Cantiafio (03:34):
Yeah, yeah, watch my kitchen just be
splattered with.
The first time I made abutternut squash soup I had to
clean it from the ceilingbecause I didn't realize it was
like her ploping and it went tothe ceiling, it went into our
fan.
I was like, oh Carol, yeah, itwas a mess, but luckily I
cleaned it and it turned out tobe really good.
(03:54):
But it was much more and Ilearned you know, put the cover
on, like, don't, don't rely onyour eyes to do this, because
you get distracted easily.
So, yes, so I live for soupseason, so it's incredible.
Eileen Grimes (04:11):
Well, you have to also.
Just can you share that recipethe butternut squash one with me
All right back to Dae, sorry,so no, it's totally fine.
So obviously so.
We we met when you werepiercing.
That was one of the sort ofprimary modalities of things
that you were doing at the time.
What got you into body piercing?
(04:34):
How did that kind of start foryou?
Dae Spiral (04:36):
Well, I got into body piercing because I was
getting piercings.
I was getting piercings from aclose friend of mine who had
just finished his apprenticeshipand we had actually worked
together.
We had worked together atSubway.
We were working the night shiftat Subway together in a college
town, which means that theSubway was open till 3am.
So from like from like midnightto two, it was kind of dead,
(05:00):
and then, as the bar started tolet out to 2, 30, we would just
be slammed with like drunkcollege kids.
Sure, it's been a lot of spent alot of idle time together and
developed a friendship.
And then he left Subway and hewent on to work at a tattoo and
piercing shop and began apiercing apprenticeship.
And then, after you know awhile in his apprenticeship he
was piercing people and I waslike, well, I'm gonna go get
(05:22):
pierced by you because we'refriends.
And when I would get piercingsI would just ask questions.
I was like so curious and Iwould be like what is that for?
Why are you doing like that?
What does that tool do?
What are you doing now?
And he would like explain everystep of the way, because we
were good friends and I'd sayafter like maybe five or six of
these you know visits where Iwould get pierced, and we would
(05:42):
kind of like shoot the shit andhe would like explain things to
me.
Then he would be like do youwant to learn how to do this?
Eileen Grimes (05:48):
You're asking me a lot of questions.
Dae Spiral (05:50):
And I'm basically teaching you how to do this and
I need help around here.
So it was kind of like rightplace, right time.
I literally had nothing.
I had no plans for my life.
I was just bumming around acollege town working in fast
food and so I started.
I was like, yes, yes, I wouldlove to learn how to do
something I would love to trade.
So it was just kind ofserendipitous that I ended up
(06:12):
doing it.
But it was after severalexperiences, including a
suspension, that really pulledme more into like a spiritual
space about it.
In the beginning it was reallyshallow, it was kind of like
surface level.
At first I was like piercingslook, that looks like it would
be terrible to do.
Eileen Grimes (06:32):
It looks painful, can I do?
Dae Spiral (06:33):
that.
Am I tough enough to do that, Iwonder if I can do that.
And then it was also about likepeople who had piercings.
They looked really tough Atthat time.
I was just in the beginning ofmy gender journey, so as a trans
person, I was just starting tolive as male and I was just
starting to kind of own mymasculinity in a different way
and present differently.
(06:53):
And it felt like a way to likeappear more masculine and appear
more tough.
I've also never felt tough, sothe fact that I could maybe look
tough was like kind of a plusfor me.
Yeah, totally, I could likehold my own a little and be
protected in the world.
If I just looked tough.
So it was kind of like.
It was kind of like just an act.
At first it was like a costume,it was like a performance.
Cheryl Cantiafio (07:14):
It was a fashion.
Dae Spiral (07:17):
It was just a fashion statement.
But once I had a suspension waswhen that all changed, and
suspensions are kind of intense.
I don't know if either of y'allhave seen photos of what
suspensions are like.
Eileen Grimes (07:29):
I have, so can you describe what that means or
what that?
Oh, okay, looks like.
Cheryl Cantiafio (07:35):
Yeah, the light bulb went off, but yeah,
just explain it, because that isall right Go Go, go, go, go, go
, go, go, go, go, go, go Go.
Dae Spiral (07:42):
As somebody who's both experienced it and
facilitated it and has, you know, at one point I had never seen
it before and saw it for thefirst time.
In that moment, when I hadnever seen it before and saw it
for the first time, it totallyfreaked me out.
I was like sure you know it,like gave me the like.
I was like really, I made meuncomfortable to see.
So suspension is when peoplehang from hooks in their skin
(08:04):
and there's lots of differentways that it's done, but it, you
know it traditionally is froman indigenous practice called
the Sundance, and there areother.
There are other indigenouspractices that involve piercings
and, and you know, body ritual,but the Sundance specifically
was about making a, making awound in your body and pulling
against a tree.
So it would be like a reallytiny like.
(08:25):
It would be like a littlelittle pinch of skin from like
the chest, maybe it was donewith like a really sharp, you
know, stick or thorn.
You know a primitive piercingneedle right, yeah, nature's
piercing needle and the ritualwas that the, it was a, it was a
coming of age ritual.
You would, you would pull, youwould have the, this thorn or
(08:47):
whatever, tied with a twine andthen that was tied to a tree and
you would pull against it,against the tree, until
eventually it worked loose.
And the indigenous practicessometimes days, you know, people
would be in this ritual andworking, and working, and
working until finally it breaksfree.
But the more modern version ofthat is much less ritual, much
less spiritual.
Again, it's kind of shallow,but it's.
(09:07):
It's again, you know, a rite ofpassage in a way and a way to
get the body to a differentstate, to an altered state,
right.
When we do these intensepiercings I mean there are large
gauge piercings in the body itcan send the body into a state,
a state of shock, right, and inthat state of shock you can go
(09:30):
between between worlds.
Fakir Musafar is an importantfigure in the body modification
industry and he's somebody whois considered the grandfather of
the modern piercing movementand he is really one of the main
people who brought suspensioninto mainstream because of his
experiences in South Dakota onnative land.
(09:52):
He had, his neighbors werenative people and he went to
school with native people and helearned about their rituals.
They shared rituals with himand taught him about things and
then he practiced them on hisown, all by himself in the 50s.
So you know, it was reallyreally strange then.
But slowly, as as it's becomemore and more popularized, more
and more people have beenfascinated by it.
(10:13):
It's become, you know, more ofa phenomenon that the mainstream
world takes part in.
But I think I feel like it'simportant to say, you know, with
all of that, that it is asacred, indigenous practice,
first and foremost, and that'swhat's inspired, you know, the
whole movement from here.
Eileen Grimes (10:30):
Yeah, and I appreciate that you share that
too.
From the Just understanding,history and sacred traditions
too right, and where things comefrom, it's really incredibly
important just to see how thingsbecame as they are and the
meaning behind it as it, asyou're experiencing some of
these things too, and so Idefinitely want to hear about
(10:53):
your experience with that aswell, because obviously it was
something big for you as youwere going through that.
Dae Spiral (11:00):
It was really, really impactful.
To that I would like to say theSundance comes from the Mandan
and Lakota tribes.
Kadavi is called the Dance ofthe Birdens, which comes from
Sri Lanka and Southeast Asiantraditions.
And then there's tons of otherindigenous cultures that have
piercing traditions.
That's really where this modernpiercing movement that we see,
(11:22):
you know.
You just see everybody's gotnose piercings, everybody's got
little ear piercings.
That came from something sodifferent and so important and
sacred.
So it's important to speak onthat.
But my suspension experience Iwould not intend to suspend.
The day that I suspended I wentto watch people suspend.
I was just a piercer with mypiercer friend.
It was like, hey, I have afriend who's doing suspensions
(11:44):
at his shop.
So we traveled, you know, wedrove like an hour and a half to
our friend's studio.
It was after hours, you know.
We had like a couple of peoplewho had agreed to do suspensions
.
It was really beautiful.
They put like paper over allthe windows so nobody could see
in.
It was just like a private, youknow just us in the space and
you know, whoever wanted to goup got to pick whatever music
was playing when they, when theydid the suspension, which was
(12:04):
you know everybody's differentright we all had different kinds
of music that we want to listento.
And then you know, I'm watchingpeople go up and my friend
comes up to me and he's like, OK, when are you going up?
And I was like, well, I didn'tplan on going up today.
Also, you know, you do have topay for the supplies, and at
that time I was broke, not beingresponsible with money, and I
was like I take a while, youknow, and not Right.
And he was like nah, it's not abig deal, I'm your, my friend,
(12:28):
I'll take care of it, doesn'tmatter, let's go up, what do you
want to do?
And I was like I'm really,though I was not, it's not
prepared to not prepare myselffor this yeah.
I was like, nah, come on, whatare you thinking?
And I was like, well, if I didgo up I would do a lotus
position, which you know,there's all different ways that
you can do the hooks on the body, but that one was two through
the back, two through the topsof the thighs and two through
(12:49):
like the sides of the leg, soyou're kind of like sitting out.
Of all of the different bodypositions, I saw that one seemed
the most comfortable to me.
I know that sounds really weirdbecause there's like a lot of
piercings.
But I didn't know.
I was trying to likeconceptualize, like what is this
going to feel like?
How am I going to?
It's just my skin, yeah.
So I was like maybe having morepoints would be smarter to have
(13:12):
it like more evenly distributed.
Eileen Grimes (13:14):
Yeah.
Dae Spiral (13:15):
Now, looking back, I've done I've done multiple
point suspensions like thatseveral times and I've done the
two in the back and for anybodylistening, two in the back is
also totally fine to start with.
It really is not.
I'd say the me going for six wasprobably not the best idea at
once, but I did that, so I satfor six piercings in my body.
We put hooks in, connected itto rope that is specially tied.
(13:38):
I mean, these are like rockclimbers in terms of like the
knowledge that you have to haveabout rigging and weight-bearing
ropes and like the specialcarabiners and all the stuff.
So I had a couple of veryexperienced people walking me
through that.
It's not just like tie a knotand then you're done.
Cheryl Cantiafio (13:57):
It's very important.
The knots are very important.
Dae Spiral (14:02):
So, yeah, I had like this team of people that all
were working to help me get setup in this thing, and when they
started to lift me off the grits, it's funny.
It's on YouTube.
You can look up Dae's FirstLotus suspension and you can
watch.
Cheryl Cantiafio (14:14):
I'm definitely not.
Yeah, I have to look at that upnow.
Dae Spiral (14:17):
Yes, but you can see in the video and I'll tell you
when it's about, when I'm aboutto come off the ground, when I'm
about to be completely on theweight of my own skin, there's a
moment where I'm like I don'tthink I can do this, you know,
and I like tell the practitioner.
I'm like I don't know if I cando this.
And he's like just breathe andrelax.
And I was like all right, andI'm just breathing and then I'm
(14:38):
off the ground and then I'mfloating.
Cheryl Cantiafio (14:41):
And.
Dae Spiral (14:41):
I'm like holy shit, I'm here All right.
It doesn't feel great, I willsay it hurts, right Sure.
There's a moment like 60 to 75seconds into the pain where it
starts to change and that iswhere I started to have an out
of thought experience and have ashift in my consciousness.
(15:01):
If I closed my eyes, I couldsee bright, bright, blinding
light.
I opened my eyes, it was justnormal room.
Close my eyes, bright light.
So I was like wow.
I remember there beingexperiences that Fakir had
spoken about too, where he wouldsuspend and see the bright
light.
So as soon as I closed my eyesand saw the bright light, I was
like holy shit, I'm seeing thebright and the same bright light
(15:21):
.
And the pain was replaced withpeace and this feeling of warmth
and comfort and calm and likeeuphoria.
I was a newly out trans person,topless, in a room full of
(15:42):
strangers, and I was socomfortable and happy and safe.
And felt so held and witnessedby the people that were also
witnessing me, and that Iremember closing my eyes and I
remember feeling like I was uptwirling and then I realized
that my friend had just verygently tapped the rig so I
(16:05):
wasn't spinning really fast, Iwas slowly moving just like a
mobile and I was like, wow, thisfeels really cool.
And then I remember, afterabout like 20, 30 minutes,
feeling bad because one of myother friends was like holding
my weight.
He's just like holding a ropewith all of my weight on it as
I'm suspending and I'm likesomebody is like responsible for
(16:28):
me right now, like holding onme.
I'm like, okay, I can becomedown.
Cheryl Cantiafio (16:32):
So I stayed up there for like a good half an
hour, but then I was like wow,that was going to be my question
, because you said the first 60to 75 seconds and I was like you
stayed up that long and thennow you just said 20 to 30
minutes and I was like yeah, itblew my mind too, because I was
on the floor like I don't thinkI can do this, you know, and
then just every breath kept Iguess I can take another breath,
(16:53):
I guess I can take anotherbreath, you know and we had the
cure playing, which was awesome.
I just kind of like dissolvedinto the cure.
Sure, wonderful, good choice.
Eileen Grimes (17:04):
I mean, what a profound.
I mean what you just said,though too right, is that just I
can take one more breath?
Yes, I can take one more breathLike that's.
I know I mean, it sounds sosimple and yet it's so
incredible in so much of life tojust think I can take one more
breath.
Dae Spiral (17:23):
Yes, man, powerful, powerful experience, and I've
done it five other times sincethen.
Cheryl Cantiafio (17:30):
Wow, I mean what are the other types of
system.
Now you've got me attentionbecause I'm like.
I know I'm Cheryl, so hold onListeners.
Eileen Grimes (17:39):
I can't see this.
But the whole that Cheryl wenton this very emotional journey
with her face, the whole.
Listen you saw it, you werehere, all right.
Dae Spiral (17:52):
The way to.
Cheryl Cantiafio (17:52):
At first it took me a minute to like catch
up, because when you said, oh,the first time I was suspended,
because you were talking aboutcollege life and stuff like that
, I was like what did you getsuspended from?
And then my brain caught up andI was like, oh, we don't mean
that, we mean the up in the airwith your skin tethered and
right.
Okay, so I caught up and then,for whatever reason, like in my
(18:16):
brain, suspension is just thatthing where you, just you, and I
knew what you meant, like interms of having hopes in your
skin.
The only thing I ever knewabout was that like people
actually do it like down theirspine and they hang that way.
Dae Spiral (18:31):
Yeah, so like if you , you know they're there, which
to me is suspension positions.
Cheryl Cantiafio (18:36):
Yes.
Dae Spiral (18:37):
I mean, you can Google suspension positions and
you'll see there are a lot Someof them are look look more
comfortable than others.
Yeah, the one that I saw didnot look comfortable at all, but
people were like, oh that wasgreat.
Cheryl Cantiafio (18:48):
Thanks, and I was like look.
So the Lotus one seems tamecompared to what I've seen, so I
would love for you to share,like the other.
Sure yeah.
Dae Spiral (18:59):
Yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio (18:59):
Like whatever else you've done, because that's
fascinating.
Dae Spiral (19:02):
I mostly have done variations on the Lotus and then
the, the two in the back.
There are all sorts of namesfor them.
Some of the names aren't great,so I'll just call that one, the
two in the back.
But yeah, the Lotus I've done.
I've done a modified Lotus thatwas just the tops of my thighs
and my back, so it was only four, and actually the the my first
(19:27):
one was, yeah, my first one wasthe only one that I've done
inside.
The rest have all been outsideand that is I don't know.
I'm of a camp of professionalpiercers, right, when our
concept of professional piercingincludes a sterile environment,
(19:47):
right, An environment where youcan be in control of how clean
things are.
So there's kind of a gray areawhen we start to talk about
practitioners being outside ofthe studio space, but when we're
in suspension land it's kind oflike I mean it's funny because
piercers and tattooers arealready kind of like the pirates
of society, but then when youget into like suspension
(20:08):
practitioners, they're like thepirates of the piercers Sure.
So it's like they're like youknow, they're like really,
really, really focused on somethings and other things are like
it's wild, you know.
Yeah, so suspending outside Imuch prefer and just being able
(20:30):
to, at least when it's warmer,really cold, it's not the best,
but being able, but you knowthat's its own medicine, right,
being able to be in touch withthe elements.
My second suspension I did.
We had a really cool setup.
We had this like zipline rig.
I told you we had like weirdrock climbing people right.
Eileen Grimes (20:51):
So we have like big nerds and people who like
know the like physics of thisstuff.
Dae Spiral (20:55):
So we had it was a camping trip, so it was like a
bunch of piercers we went on acamping trip and we did
suspensions while we were thereand one of the practitioners had
this zipline mechanism.
So they, you know, had twopoints on two trees, right, a
point on either tree, and thetrees were going over this
really beautiful stream.
So they set it up so that thezipline is on.
You know, there's like a pulleyon those and then I'm, I'm, you
(21:18):
know, doing my.
My hooks are then attached to arig that's attached to the
pulley, so then I can ziplineand be like hanging over the
water and like put my feet inthe water and like touching and
floating over the water while I,while I was suspension
suspended, so that was reallybeautiful.
Like I was having different,different sensations with the
(21:39):
sensation of this, like calmmolasses that, just like covers,
covers my whole body as well,as you know, like the cool
breeze and like sunshine on meand like my toes dipping in the
water and there's like a tree.
I can like touch the leaves ofa tree, you know.
So that was after I, after Iexperienced an outdoor
(21:59):
suspension, I was like I think Ijust want to do it this way
because it's so beautiful.
My friends were there,everybody's quiet.
I just hear birds, you know,it's just like, it's just really
really beautiful way to haveritual in a group blood, letting
you know all of these layersand an altered, altered state of
consciousness.
You know a change.
Not to mention the scars.
(22:21):
Right, I do have a scar.
You have to get scarsafterwards they fade, you know.
But the more you get suspended,the more, the more scars you
have in like this area and belike wow, like when I get
massaged.
I think, does my massagetherapist wonder what all these
scars on my back?
Cheryl Cantiafio (22:37):
She never asks me Right.
Eileen Grimes (22:40):
I mean, that would be a tough one to be like.
What would I say to?
Dae Spiral (22:45):
somebody.
Have you ever seen a suspensionRight?
We have to go into the wholething, right?
Eileen Grimes (22:50):
Exactly, yeah, oh , my goodness.
Well, I would be fascinated tosee one in person.
That's ever something.
So you just also very fine Ifit's a very intimate experience,
that is meant to be withfriends only, and I very much
understand and respect that also, so I would never want to go
(23:11):
into something like that asbeing just a I don't know weird
observer of you know, likethere's you know.
Dae Spiral (23:19):
I think that with suspension it's understood that
there's probably going to bepeople who want to watch.
You know, I mean it's you know,in certain settings, right?
I mean, I think that there aresome people who are like I want
a private.
I want a private suspension.
I just want my practitionerthere, or like my special people
there, but I think majority ofpeople are like I'm aware that
this looks weird.
(23:40):
Yeah, okay, you want to watch?
Yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio (23:43):
Come check it out.
I have to control my face.
Dae Spiral (23:46):
Yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio (23:48):
I would have to control my face because I'm
whoa yeah, that would be.
You know, I'd have to wear amask or something just because I
wouldn't want to be like.
I wouldn't want to changepeople's minds and go like, oh
my God, how bad does this look.
And oh my God, now I'm in painbecause now I'm realizing
because her face.
So I would be super curious.
Eileen, I'm in the camp, I'llask anything.
(24:08):
I'll be like what is that thing?
How do you do?
Eileen Grimes (24:09):
that yeah, Bubble , bubble, bubble, bubble, bubble
bubble.
Cheryl Cantiafio (24:11):
Oh, totally yeah.
Would I actually do it?
No, but I applaud people thatdo it because there is that
peace of mind, right.
It's a different way ofmeditation and, and you know,
getting in touch withspirituality and stuff like that
.
Dae Spiral (24:27):
Right.
Cheryl Cantiafio (24:29):
And I know myself well enough that I would
see one needle and I would belike have a good day, yeah.
Eileen Grimes (24:35):
I'm going to go.
Cheryl Cantiafio (24:36):
I'm going to go somewhere else, that's good.
Dae Spiral (24:38):
Okay, very, very fair.
Good for you.
Eileen Grimes (24:41):
Awesome.
Yeah Well, I love the idea ofthe transcendence, too into it
being a spiritual healing right,like I think, for sure, to me,
that's the, that's the amazingpart of it, that I would like to
be witness to, that experienceof someone else.
Yeah Right, having having thatin that moment, I just think I
(25:04):
feel like that would be sobeautiful to to see you know.
Yeah, so that's that for me,like that's the.
Yes, there's definitely themechanics of all of it, for sure
, and understanding and seeingthat, but also when you add into
it this whole other part thatyou can't necessarily, I don't
necessarily see this, but I knowthis person is going through
(25:28):
something bigger than what'sexisting in this room I just I
feel like that's amazing.
So.
Dae Spiral (25:34):
There's this point in suspending where, like I
spoke to, where you have to, youhave to let go.
Where you have to, just youhave to, really you have to let
go.
You have to release, you have,you can't.
You have to just trust my.
The people took care of me.
I got things where they'resupposed to be.
Trusting is like tied right, myskin can hold me.
(25:55):
That's the most amazing part isthat your skin can hold you.
Your skin is so strong.
Cheryl Cantiafio (26:01):
Like our body is so strong.
Yeah, yeah, that is amazing.
Dae Spiral (26:06):
Like the fact that the sundance you know the
sundance people would have topull on their skin for days,
sometimes Like that's amazing,it is.
That's just so wild to me.
And so there's this.
I think there's this part aboutlike trusting my body, trusting
that my body is going to get methrough this.
That that is is a really bigpiece of like the reason I keep
(26:27):
doing it.
You know the exercise it's likewhy would I?
I mean it does hurt.
You know, like the before andafter, the euphoria that fucking
still hurts.
You know it's awful.
Can I cuss?
Yeah, yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio (26:39):
Yeah, oh, absolutely.
I was like oh shit, I droppedan.
F bomb Okay.
Dae Spiral (26:46):
So you know, there is still pain involved, but the
payoff of the change and the waythat it changes me afterwards,
I think, is, I think that's whyI keep going back and doing it.
You know, it's that thatpractice in letting go and
relinquishing control and andjust trusting, just trusting my
(27:06):
skin for, you know, 20 minutesor whatever, Wonderful.
Eileen Grimes (27:09):
I mean it's incredible, I don't know.
There, you know, as as I amexploring what that means, I
mean I have been through mywhole life and just spirituality
and whatever that looks likefor you.
You know there's, there is thelike.
What is it?
The physical self, what is thethis?
The conscious self, what islike?
(27:29):
What are all of these pieces?
And that brings every singlepart of it into that just
knowing and into the forefront,right when you're, you have the
feeling of the physical, but youalso experience this piece and
it's just like these.
It's a highly multi-dimensionalexperience of all of that all
(27:52):
at the same time, and I justfind that fascinating and
amazing.
Dae Spiral (27:56):
Yeah, agreed.
Yeah, you know we have.
We have so many bodies.
We have a physical body, wehave an emotional body, we have
a spiritual body, we have a painbody.
Right, we have all of thesebodies.
I don't even know how manybodies we have.
We have a bunch.
So the fact that sometimes wecan link parts of our bodies or
like get into different partsthrough other parts fascinating
(28:16):
dance.
Eileen Grimes (28:18):
It absolutely is so because I want to get into
this too.
You know, going from, you know,having that kind of experience
and really starting to lead youinto sort of that spiritual side
and exploration, how did thattake you from where you were
then into sound healing?
Dae Spiral (28:37):
Yeah, well, I had an additional experience in terms
of like body ritual and Iactually got to experience
ritual with Fakir.
Fakir passed away in 2018, butbefore he did, he was still
doing rituals all the time andpiercings all the time.
He has a piercing school in SanFrancisco that is still run in
his honor, you know, after he'spassed, and so that was 2016.
(29:01):
I did a ritual with him and hispartner, cleo, and they run
these rituals and she's stillrunning them, even even after
he's passed on, and they'recalled spirit and flesh rituals.
And you sign up and he, youknow they.
At that time he had this, thisreally beautiful space in
downtown San Francisco.
(29:23):
It was just beautiful, so cool,just just this huge altar space
and this beautiful, like sacredspace set up and you would go
in and you would sit and youknow, once you had signed up for
the ritual and gotten all thepaperwork and consent form and
doing all the like, blah, blah,blah, blah.
And then you go in and he likegives me, like has all these
serongs set out?
(29:44):
You have to like change and likeget in your serong and like
there's a trance drummerstarting to drum, and then there
are people calling in the fourdirections and now we're in a
ritual, like we're having aritual you know, and that was
the first time that I got toexperienced group ritual in this
like really organized fashion,where it was like it really did
(30:06):
feel like a like a choreographeddance, like everyone had a role
or a responsibility, was eitherthere to participate in the
ritual or was there to supportthe people participating in the
ritual.
I recognize some of the guidesand leaders as being piercers in
the industry, but they werethere to help facilitate this
ritual, so that was kind of cool.
It's like, oh, I know, it's verynice and you know, for me and
(30:29):
my partner we both participatedwe were on the cusp of moving
from Georgia to Washington, soit was kind of a.
We had this ritual as like awell, here's the beginning of
this new chapter.
You know, new lives together isworking in Washington and
Seattle.
At that time you can.
I also experienced alteredstates of consciousness and got
(30:51):
to play in these altered statesof consciousness, which was
really fun.
I bet yeah, yeah, so just beliterally just dancing, like
having somebody drumming.
And then we did, we did.
Do you know?
If you wanted to do piercings,you could do piercings, but you
could also just participate inthis ritual.
I did little like little baby,like 14 gauge needles right here
(31:16):
, Okay, and they had like littletiny hooks with like little
strings and just for pulling,not for like hanging your body
weight on Right, and my partnerdid as well.
And then I took excuse me, Itook a vow of silence through
cheek spears, which is apractice where they pierce, they
pierce, you pierce here andhere.
Eileen Grimes (31:36):
And it's the spear that goes through.
Dae Spiral (31:37):
And then there's like these really ornamental
ends, okay, and you wear that asa as a vow of silence, as a
mark that I'm not going to speakat all during this ritual.
Wow, I remember feeling likeseeing the the cheek spears and
just immediately seeing thempreviously right and being like
I have I have to do that and Ididn't know why I it wasn't like
(31:59):
I want to have my cheekspierced.
You know it's like I as apiercer, I know that is a very
painful piercing, it's aterrible piercing.
Cheryl Cantiafio (32:05):
I bet it's very very difficult to heal.
Dae Spiral (32:09):
So many complications can happen.
So I was like I don't.
It wasn't that I wanted to getmy cheeks pierced.
It was that something waspulling me to do that.
I didn't understand that.
It was a vow of silence.
I just knew that I was going todo that.
And so, you know, at thisritual we're, like you know,
signing up for what we're doingand I was like I'm doing this
and Fakir is like, just so, youknow, that's a vow of silence,
(32:30):
so that means the whole ritual.
You're not allowed to sayanything Like all right.
Yes, that's my medicine forthis ritual too.
Eileen Grimes (32:36):
So I did that.
Dae Spiral (32:38):
And in the ritual space there are several piercers
that Fakir has designated fordifferent things.
You know, some people weredoing the chest hooks, some
people were doing hooks in theirback instead, and then Fakir
was the one doing the cheekpiercings, and so I got to get
pierced by Fakir.
Wow, and the way that he did itwas I still don't.
(32:59):
I mean, I was in a trance state, of course, right.
Eileen Grimes (33:01):
We had the drums going so that makes sense.
Dae Spiral (33:03):
But I didn't feel it , it didn't hurt at all, it felt
like nothing.
I mean like I felt it, butthere wasn't pain.
Yeah, it was really, reallyblew my mind and I'm still like
I guess it was the trance stateI was in, it was just a magic
piercing?
I don't know.
But he grabbed my head, grabbedmy head, like on either side of
my temples, and looked me deadin the eyes, and then he grabbed
(33:26):
my cheek and did the piercings.
And then he did this cutelittle like, like, just like
little palm, tap right on, likewhere my third eye is, and he
just like boop and like he likesent me off.
He would like do that and likesend you off.
Okay, now you go dance, you gotwirl around and have fun in the
ritual space.
Wow, and so I did.
I had never been in a spacewhere I was told to dance, go
(33:50):
dance.
You know it's like just likewithout people, like wanting me
to be sexy, or like, you know,trying to flirt with people, or
like being in a club.
You know like, just go dance,like dance, your dance with your
energy.
You know like dance with yourwounds, dance with your pain,
dance with the ritual dance.
And so I did.
I mean, shook my body about youknow, and moved in rhythm until
(34:13):
I realized that I didn't give ashit, I wasn't caring about
what I looked like, I was justin this soup with everyone, we
were all just dancing, we're allin our like orange, orange
wraps, and this like palpableenergy in the air of this, of
ritual, of humans exploring theworld, exploring, witnessing,
(34:35):
bleeding, having joy and pain,and this symphony of this is
life, this is what we do, thisis being human and it just being
such a powerful experience.
And then, at the end, closing,closing the circle, and then
having a feast.
They had a beautiful meal forall of us.
(34:55):
We had at this long, long table, just one really long table
with all of us and shared, youknow, shared a meal and shared
space and energy.
And that Sparks something in me, especially the fact that music
was involved, that there wasthis drumming element happening
(35:15):
in the background the whole time.
That definitely affected mystate you know that definitely
influenced me.
You know, fast forward to themeditation retreat that I went
on in 2020.
And that is 10 days of silence,wow.
Eileen Grimes (35:32):
I mean, I'll be honest, I so right now that
sounds glorious a little bit tome as a mom, yeah, a single mom,
with a, you know, with my twokids, a full time.
You know, mom to them, lovethem dearly, and also.
Dae Spiral (35:59):
Quiet, quiet would be nice.
Eileen Grimes (36:01):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm such an introvert too that
I'm like I need that also tojust feed myself and things I
could.
I'll be honest 10 days withthat I'm sure 10 days is
actually can be difficult andthere's certainly a journey that
you have to go on.
As as that progresses and overthat 10 day period, I am not
(36:25):
going to claim like, yeah, oh,10 days, that sounds easy,
Obviously super easy to do.
But yeah, that must have beensuch an incredible experience
for you.
Where was it?
Do you, did you?
Do you go somewhere for it?
Dae Spiral (36:40):
Okay, so it's.
The center that I went to ishere in Washington.
It's in on Alaska, washington.
The method of meditation that Ilearned is called the Pashna,
and the Pashna technique is thetechnique that the Buddha used
to reach enlightenment.
So it's just one meditationtechnique that we're taught.
(37:02):
We're taught like a, you'retaught like a lead up, like a
practice version of it in thefirst three days and then at the
fourth day you start likeactually learning the rest of
the technique and you take a vowof noble silence, which is that
you don't speak, but you alsopromise to not try to
(37:23):
communicate to anybody at all.
So you don't try to like makeeye contact with people and be
like you know or like your foodand be like this food is good or
this food is bad.
You know, like nothing, don'tyou know?
Try not to make eye contactwith people, noble silence.
So it's like this, this promisethat you make where you're, I'm
going to, I'm going to work andto create an environment that
(37:46):
you, like you were alone, likeyou're totally alone, but
obviously you know it's notreally feasible for just you to
be at the center.
So there, are a bunch of otherpeople here, but it's you know,
we're trying to create anenvironment that you were in
solitude.
Cheryl Cantiafio (38:01):
So you couldn't play music, you
couldn't do any like nothing toread books like anything, just
sit in silence.
Dae Spiral (38:11):
You agree to join you.
You promise that you won'tbring anything, so like you hand
over.
You hand over your phone andyour car keys and they lock them
in, like this special securearea.
You can leave if you want, butthey just they do that so that
it's it's tricky, you know.
Say you want to do this, we'regoing to help you do this.
Cheryl Cantiafio (38:29):
You really want to do this, okay.
Dae Spiral (38:31):
If you really want to leave, they'll give you your
keys and you can leave, but theyreally try to, not.
They were like are you sureyou're already here?
You did all this work, you saidright.
So, yeah, I handed over my keysand my wallet and my you know
phone.
Yeah, don't bring any books,Don't bring any journals.
You don't bring any talismancrystals, special things,
(38:56):
anything which was hard for mebecause I love crystals.
Cheryl Cantiafio (39:02):
Yeah, that's a true journey.
Dae Spiral (39:04):
I left them in the car.
I was like they're coming withme in the car.
They'll stay in the parking.
Eileen Grimes (39:08):
They have amazing crystals, just if you probably
want to know.
Yes, it's very true, I'm acrystal cuddler.
Dae Spiral (39:15):
Yeah, so yeah, the hand, everything over.
And the first day I rememberfeeling like can I still talk?
Am I supposed to be silent now?
But, you can still talk the veryfirst day.
You're like, you know, gettingyour stuff.
They give you, bring you toyour room and it's really really
lovely.
So the little nerdy backgroundstuff.
(39:36):
The center is only run bydonation.
It's totally free, it costsnothing to do.
It's only run by donation andyou can only donate if you've
done a course already.
So it's only what they call oldstudents If you've done the
course and you're considered anold student.
So only old students donate.
So it's only run by people whohave benefited from this
(39:57):
meditation practice.
So it's a really cool system.
That's like community based,you know, and so, yeah, the
resource for that is damaorg, ifyou're ever interested in
learning about this.
Eileen Grimes (40:12):
Okay, I am.
Dae Spiral (40:14):
It's very cool and so, yeah, it's delicious vegan
food.
So delicious, so good.
Me and my partner make thistrip.
My partner went on thismeditation retreat, has been on
it twice and when I met him hehad just finished one and he was
like such a like Zen person.
I was like, what is it aboutthis person?
Eileen Grimes (40:36):
Well, I just did 10 days of silence.
Dae Spiral (40:37):
I did this meditation retreat, I was like
what that is so cool?
It was like when we first metlike we weren't even dating yet.
I was just like getting to knowhim and I remember even back
then thinking like nine yearsago, it was like I want to try
to do that someday.
Eileen Grimes (40:50):
That sounds really hard.
Dae Spiral (40:52):
I want to try and do that someday.
So I made this plan in Novemberof 2019, because you have to
apply like a couple months inadvance and they fill up sort of
fast, so you have to kind oflike, okay, when is the next one
to apply?
You have to like save the dateand I like set all these
reminders and like planned it,signed up for it, and then, yeah
, I went there and while I wasthere, the whole world shut down
(41:17):
.
Eileen Grimes (41:17):
Yeah, fully cow.
I mean talk about timing.
Dae Spiral (41:22):
It was so I mean it was, it was really interesting,
timing right, because thistechnique is teaching you how
everything is.
The only constant is change.
Cheryl Cantiafio (41:34):
Yeah, everything is always changing
Absolutely.
I can't even imagine coming outof 10 days of silence and then
walking into no toilet paper, notoilet paper.
Eileen Grimes (41:45):
It's like there's like a movie.
Cheryl Cantiafio (41:49):
There's a movie called Sean of the Dead.
Yes and right.
So, like you're in this stateof like, whatever, I did this
thing and you do the same thingevery day, right?
So you've come out of thisquiet space and literally like
everybody's in this chaoticspace, but you're still in this
Zen mode and like, all of asudden, it's like, oh, did
something bad happen?
Like what's happening, what'sgoing on?
(42:11):
I can't even that must havebeen.
Dae Spiral (42:14):
It was so wild, it was so wacky, the day before,
the day before the end.
Okay, so you do 10 days ofsilence.
So on the ninth day you breaksilence so that you can
reintegrate with the world.
On the 10th day, because, well,I guess it's technically the you
do 10 days of silence but thenon the 11th day so the last day,
where the last day, you, youare able to speak again.
(42:37):
And I'm very glad for that one,because after speaking again, I
realized that I could feel myvoice and my whole body Like.
Sure, I could feel my voice andI can still feel my voice, like
even in my toes, if I reallyreally focus on it while I'm
speaking.
I can feel it vibratingeverywhere.
But when I first, when I firstspoke, I'm like whoa, whoa, my
(43:00):
body feel weird because I reallydidn't talk the whole time.
There are there are these littlegaps in the day where you can
meet with a teacher and askquestions about the technique,
so you don't have to just sit insilence for the 10 days if
you're like I am confused, Idon't understand something.
You know you can.
There are these like littlebreaks, but I didn't do any of
those.
I OK, there was one night wherethe moon was full and I went
(43:24):
whoa, mama, I just I didn't meanto, but the moon was just using
the middle of nowhere.
The sky was just so beautifuland I just could not.
Well, I just talked and I didnot talk, but that I did break
silence one one time at the moon, but I didn't speak to anybody
but the moon, but yeah, so I gota long track.
(43:45):
I was trying to remember, oh,breaking silence brings us so
the day before breaking silence,the kind of like director of
the property, I guess.
He was the main the main, themain hippie, the main meditator,
yeah, Was like so tomorrow isthe day that everybody, you know
(44:06):
, goes back into the world, andyou know it's important to to
just really cherish the timethat you have right now and the
time that you've had here,because things are going to be
really different when you go outinto the world tomorrow.
And and I really it's importantthat we don't, it's important
that I, that we continue the theyou know boundary or agreement
(44:30):
that we've made for this time.
So we're, you know we're notgoing to discuss what's
happening, but you and you willfind out tomorrow.
You know everyone will gettheir phones back, you'll all be
able to plug back into theworld.
But just know that this is atime that is really really
important to to practice whatyou've learned here in these
past 10 days, like thistechnique is really going to
(44:52):
help you in in in what's, what's, you know what you're about to
walk back in and walk into.
I was like what is happening?
I was really worried, I wasreally scared.
I was like was there like a war?
Is there like a bomb?
Like what?
Is my partner still there?
You know I was.
I was like freaking out.
I didn't even I didn't evenrealize that, you know, because
I knew that COVID had wasstarting to, you know, happen
(45:13):
right, I mean, we had heardthings, but you know, sir,
literally like the second weekof March, like it was the week
that everything shut down inWashington.
Eileen Grimes (45:23):
Oh my gosh Dae.
Dae Spiral (45:25):
So, yeah, I turned my phone on and had a bunch of
texts from my partner sayingthat you know, things are really
crazy right now and to to tryand find toilet paper on the way
home.
Oh, my goodness, and I did.
I stopped in some like middleof nowhere grocery store and
there was no toilet paper, butthere were baby wipes, so I
(45:45):
grabbed as many baby wipes as Icould.
Oh my God, I came home.
Cheryl Cantiafio (45:50):
And that's a book, that is a book Totally.
I mean, yeah, that is just howdo you go from silence to chaos?
In 60 seconds, you know that is, or in 10 days even.
Dae Spiral (46:04):
Yeah, that's been quite a lesson and I mean I feel
like I'm still learning Still aliar lying things that I
learned there, but, but, yeah,that that experience was
powerful because of that, of thesurroundings, because I was in
such a like, I was such a cleanslate.
You know, it's like therewasn't.
(46:24):
When you stop talking, you havea lot of mind chatter, but then
the mind chatter turns intosomething else, it turns into
memories, it turns into pastmind chatter and then, and then
I'm not even sure what'shappening.
I don't know what layer Itapped, it tapped into by the
end there, but I know, I know100% that I saw past lives of
(46:48):
mine.
I know 100% that I had visionsof lives that I that weren't
this life, but they weren't.
They were me, but they weren't,but they weren't me.
And I think that was theweirdest thing.
I'm like the most sober I'veever been and the most like
vegan I've ever been, like avery clean body and yeah, and
(47:14):
and it was.
You know, I always thought, ok,all right, so if, if you know,
past lives are a thing, if it'sreally a thing that we, that our
spirits, are everlasting andcome back in different forms,
you know, if that's really athing I didn't think that I
would see.
I didn't, I don't know.
(47:35):
I didn't think that I wouldexperience what I experienced,
because what I experienced werelike little blips of the end,
like I experienced the end ofone of my lives and I
experienced the the end that Iforced onto another life, and
like, really, I'm going to seethese like this.
These are the visions that Ihave.
Eileen Grimes (47:53):
You know, it's like interesting.
Dae Spiral (47:57):
So, yeah, those, those moments really stand out
as like as this, like telescopethrough dimensions, you know,
along the lines of what we'retalking about here, of these
these in between worlds.
You know that we can sometimestouch or grasp or see like a
(48:17):
just like a pain of you know,looking through a window.
I don't know.
It's yeah I.
That's why I need to go.
Eileen Grimes (48:26):
I need to go now because that's actually why I
for the longest time and I justdon't do anymore because I just
don't but I loved long distancerunning.
So I was doing like marathontraining you sure don't talk to
anybody, well, I mean, I guesssome people do, I was.
I was not one of those runnersthat can go for you know days,
but I, I would you know, had todo like a three hour run or
(48:49):
something like that.
And you're quiet, like it'sjust quiet, and I never I didn't
run with like music or anything, I just I liked to just be.
And you know, the first part ofmy run, the first few miles,
were always like the chatter,chatter, chatter, chatter,
chatter.
I'm like my brain's goingthrough all the stuff and sure I
mean God, anyone, anyone whoknows me, there's a lot of stuff
(49:11):
happening all the time, andthen it's like I ran past that
until it finally got quiet andthat was incredible.
I mean just to sit in the quietand be entirely present.
That for me running wasmeditation, like it just, it
(49:32):
just is, it is.
It was the moment to allow forthose things to quiet and then
to get to this place where I sawthe trees and I saw like I
could smell the air.
I could like everything becameso much more clear when I would
be doing that.
So I can, I can see absolutelythe benefit of that and even
(49:52):
over an extended period of timeto how that could then increase
what that experience looks likeand deepen it even further.
So I'm very interested and Ihave the website up now.
Dae Spiral (50:05):
Yay, yeah, the.
The thing about the teacherthat teaches the Vipassana
technique is that he's alreadypassed on, but he made tapes on
how to teach and they're theystill play the tapes.
So it's the same teacherteaching it the same way.
The assistant teachers are justthere if you have questions,
but they give you the sameanswers.
That he gives you Wow, and his,his name is going to G, and
(50:30):
going to G is also known as thesinging meditation teacher and
in his, in the very in the OK.
So it's like a.
It's like you get up at likefour in the morning.
There's like a bell and you getup and then you start
meditating at like 430 in themorning.
You either do it in your room oryou go to the hall and the main
meditation hall they play thesetapes of him singing in the, in
(50:54):
Pali, which is the samelanguage that the Buddha spoke,
the same language that thistechnique was written in, and
you know it's it's like kind ofgluttural and he's like an older
dude, so it's like really lowand like the first time I heard
I was like what the fuck is this?
This is supposed to be?
Cheryl Cantiafio (51:11):
the meditation music.
That's what we have to meditateto.
Dae Spiral (51:13):
I was like great, this is like a cough.
I was just, I was such a proudabout it.
I was like this is like shit, Idon't like this.
And then I, after a couple ofdays, I continue to go to the
the hall because my roommatewould just sleep and he was
snoring really loud and so I waslike it's hard to meditate
while this is snoring, so I waslike I'll just go to the hall
(51:35):
and then after a couple of daysof doing it and with meditating,
with with the singing happeningin the hall, I realized I was
not annoyed by it at all and Ifound it actually really
peaceful.
It's like a lullaby, it wasjust like so comforting and I
was like I don't understand thewords he's saying at all, but
the way that the vibrations arehitting me is like doing
something to me.
Yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio (51:56):
It sounds like the same way that the the
trance drums hit you yeah.
Dae Spiral (52:01):
Very similar yes.
Cheryl Cantiafio (52:02):
It's that same .
Dae Spiral (52:03):
It's like this frequency resonating, you know,
creating this sound wave ofvibration in me, entrainment
really.
I mean that's the physics.
The physics behind it isentrainment.
But when I, you know, once Igot back, I hyper fixated on the
(52:23):
technique and like learning,and looked up what he was saying
.
I found a translation in thelike on the website, you know,
look up the different morningsand I found the different
morning meditation songs, Ifound the med, I found the
translation.
I was like what is he saying?
He was calling in thedirections.
He's calling in the spirits.
He's calling in the protectionof the land.
(52:45):
He's calling he was, he wascasting a circle, he's casting a
spell the whole time.
He's like right Doing energy,doing energy work making
vibrations in the air so thatthe space around the meditators
would be beneficial formeditating.
Like, and something clickedwith me, with all of like,
realizing all of that, and itwas like music.
It's something about music,there's something about me and
(53:08):
music and I was supposed to dosomething with music and it's
not.
It's not to like.
I'm supposed to be famous forsinging.
I'm supposed to play somethingperfectly.
It's about guiding peoplethrough sound.
That's what I'm supposed to do.
And the more that I come up,came upon that answer, the less
I could deny it and the more Ihad to be like I have to step
into this, I have to continue tomove towards this and started
(53:29):
to find ways to incorporate itinto you know the piercings I
was doing and started to justtake classes and hang the
certificate on my wall in thepiercing room so that people
would ask me what's soundhealing about?
Eileen Grimes (53:40):
That's what I did .
Dae Spiral (53:42):
People started to ask and I was like, cool, it's
working, yeah and yeah.
And then we got to connect anddo some work together and yeah,
now I'm.
Now I'm on my own, I quitpiercing full time and I'm doing
my own thing.
Eileen Grimes (53:55):
Wonderful Good for you.
Thank you, which I mean, I know, for your, for your own healing
and for all of that for you.
That's incredible.
I also felt like it was such agift to be able to work with you
in in that piercing space.
I, truly honestly, I was.
There's a part of me that'slike, ah okay, well, now I find
one, a new piercing, I have tofind someone else, but I was.
(54:16):
I feel like it was a gift to beable to have had that
experience with you.
It really was incredible aswell, as you know the sound
healing that we did and I stilllike I don't want to give it all
away, but there's, there's wassomething that that you were
helping me guide through and Istill use.
(54:37):
I still have my like circle ofpast and present selves that I
still use a piece of me and it'sit's so healing and just what I
need often that I bring thatback a lot.
So thank you for thank you forsharing that.
Dae Spiral (54:57):
Yeah, wow, that's so cool.
The things that happen when I'mdoing sound healing are not
always from me, and that is sucha it just blows my mind that I
like get connected and thenstuff comes through me and I'm
like, well, I was supposed tocome out cool, yeah, and so it's
(55:21):
just so.
It's just so touching to mewhen, when I hear that that you
know was beneficial to you andthat it's been, you know,
powerful for you, that's thankyou for telling me.
That's so cool?
Eileen Grimes (55:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
What are you?
So?
What do you do now with this?
Obviously you're not.
You know you've quit piercing.
I know there was a.
You had a really nice and alsojust such a lovely transition
from that to as you were makingsure that those you were still
working with.
There was a transition fromthat and I I follow Dae so just
like all the time I see whereeven going from the different
(55:55):
social media is.
I'm like, okay, well now Dae'sover here.
Dae Spiral (55:57):
So yeah, be watching everything here.
I figured out, yeah.
Eileen Grimes (56:03):
But anyway, that was just beautiful in the way
that you did that in such a likekind, thoughtful, healing,
intentional way.
And now into this so what?
What are you now doing fulltime and what does that look
like?
Dae Spiral (56:17):
Yeah, so I'm a full time sound practitioner now.
I'm working with people in acouple different capacities so I
do do one on one work.
You know if you want to do asession one on one and I can do
work with lots of modalities tohave.
You know the crystal singingbowls.
I have tuning forks.
Those tend to be my two go tosto working with, like
(56:37):
rebalancing our energy centersor if people have like a
specific issue that they'reworking with, a lot of the times
energy work and sound healingwill help think, help people
with things that Westernmedicine goes.
I don't know what to do you know, a lot of times people are have
an issue and they're likenothing else will help this
thing.
Can we try this?
(56:58):
And I'm like, yeah, we totallycan.
The other things that I'm doingare I do have a couple of free
offerings that I'm doing onsocial media just to, you know,
try to get the word out and totry and gain followers.
And, you know, serve thealgorithm, gods.
I know, right, terrible.
I don't hear it but also makingcustomized tracks for people for
(57:25):
different situations.
So, like right now, I've beenhired to make a track for
someone who's having surgery andthey're actually going to be
partially awake during thesurgery.
They're just doing like a nervecall.
I'm imbuing this track withfrequencies, with vibrations for
(57:47):
healing and intentions, as wellas literally putting like words
in so that she has words tolisten to while that's happening
.
So those are, you know, theofferings that I'm doing in the
world.
Right now I've just finished anintensive mentorship with a
(58:08):
member of the Hawaii SymphonyOrchestra, so I'm incorporating
a lot of things that I'velearned in that and kind of, you
know, redoing some thingsbehind the scenes and I'm going
to, you know, pull the curtainout and, you know, announce and
sort of put new stuff out intothe world.
I'd say by the new year is kindof what I'm playing.
Eileen Grimes (58:26):
Okay Well, I'll be watching, so yeah.
Cheryl Cantiafio (58:30):
So how, at that point, how do people
connect with you on social mediaLike where are you?
Dae Spiral (58:34):
Yeah, so you can find my sound healing work at
spiral sound healing onInstagram on Tiktok it's spiral
dot sound dot healing.
And then spiral sound healingdot com is my website.
And then, if you wanted to seeany of my body piercing stuff, I
still have stuff on Daepiercing on my Instagram page.
So, yeah, if you have piercingquestions, I am still doing
(58:58):
professional consulting in thepiercing world.
So I'm consulting with userswho have questions or people who
are concerned, you know,interested in apprenticeships
and that kind of thing.
So you know I can I also doconsulting for folks.
But yeah, we're a couple hats.
But spiral sounds spiral soundhealing is where you can find me
most of the time now.
Eileen Grimes (59:17):
Yeah, I, just having been through a session
with you, I'm looking to expandthat a little bit, and I also.
So again, cheryl knows thisabout me as soon as you start
talking about the things in yourbusiness, I'm like you should
go talk to like a midwives group.
Dae Spiral (59:35):
Yes, Because I feel like there would be.
Eileen Grimes (59:39):
Right like how, how many women go through, I
mean, this experience of birthand everything, and to have that
sort of additional healingpiece through it, right like I
just feel like that would beincredible.
And I'll be honest, I had.
Well, I had a conversationtoday with my one of my parents
(01:00:00):
and just even from you know fromthat there's there is life and
death, and I know there aredeath do laws and things along
the way.
And even the transition of someof that to like I don't like.
These are moments that what anincredibly beautiful and
powerful modality to bring intothat.
(01:00:21):
Yeah, I just feel like thatwould be incredible.
So as soon as you talk aboutsurgery, I'm like OK, here's
like 10 million more ideas.
Yes, I love that, thank you.
Dae Spiral (01:00:30):
I've actually been thinking about trying to trying
to do work with with kids to,because kids are like so down to
make sounds and I feel likethere's a, there's a point where
we lose that and if, like, ifwe can keep that and cultivate
that, then we'll have differenthumans, if we're like not scared
to make, let our sounds comeout, you know?
Yeah, so that's just somethingI'm thinking about, but yeah, I
(01:00:52):
reached out to you a littlewhile ago.
Eileen Grimes (01:00:53):
I was like we need to talk more, because one I
also am.
I'm a pastor, I'm a, I have my,my, whatever license or
whatever that's called.
Dae Spiral (01:01:04):
I've been thinking about getting ordained to.
Eileen Grimes (01:01:07):
Yes, that's what, thank you, there's the word I'm
working also.
Yeah, but I have a few thingsthat I'd like to really start
building up here.
And spoke can, and so Idefinitely want to talk to you
more about some of that.
And and in healing, and whatdoes it mean to be a creator?
So, would love to.
(01:01:28):
Yes, I think I feel like I'msupposed to be talking to you
about some of this stuff soanyway, yes, I'm very excited to
hear one what's upcoming, andwe'll just have to the what's
happening, what you know, we'llhave to wait until the new year
to hear about that, and that'svery OK.
But yeah, I just I'mcontinually inspired by you and
(01:01:52):
everything that you're doing andbringing into this world, and
you know like we talk about thisis you only go once and you are
bringing light into this worldthat needs it.
So so, much, yeah, and to havethis healing impact for others
and even yourself and there'snothing selfish about that in
any way shape or form Right, andyou to be able to do that, as
(01:02:16):
well as you need to for others,you have to be able to give that
to yourself, and I'm just I'mso grateful to know you, to have
fallen into your sphere ofexistence and knowing, and I
just can't wait to keep seeingall the amazing things you're
going to be doing.
Dae Spiral (01:02:33):
Oh, this has been so lovely.
I'm so thankful that I'vegotten to spend this time with
you all.
It's been really nice.
It's been so nice to connectwith you again.
Eileen Grimes (01:02:40):
It's been way too long since we've seen each
other Absolutely chat more often.
Dae Spiral (01:02:46):
I would love to connect with you more.
Cheryl Cantiafio (01:02:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think we need to
bring you back in 2024 becausewe need to hear the rest of
where everything is going.
Dae Spiral (01:02:57):
Yes, I would love to .
Cheryl Cantiafio (01:02:59):
I just thoroughly enjoyed your journey.
I've enjoyed listening to youtalk about where you've been,
where you're going, and,honestly, I feel like this is
going to be one of thosecliffhanger podcast episodes
where people are going to belike well, wait a minute.
What happens next?
(01:03:19):
Right, what happens next?
So I can't wait and thank youso much for what.
We're honored that you sharedyour story with us, because this
was just been I.
You know, I could have beenhere another two hours honestly
just going tell us more.
Dae Spiral (01:03:35):
What is this?
My face hurts from smiling.
It's so wonderful.
Eileen Grimes (01:03:40):
We do.
Dae Spiral (01:03:44):
It's a project out.
Cheryl Cantiafio (01:03:45):
Oh my goodness , alright, everyone.
So, dave, thank you so much onbehalf of Eileen Grimes and
myself.
This concludes another episodeof you.
Only go once, take care, seeyou next time.
Bye.
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