July 7, 2025 • 56 mins
In this episode of the Young Dad Podcast, host Jewell Young speaks with Paul Granger, a minister and content creator, about the journey of faith and the importance of seeking God in everyday life. They discuss the challenges of maintaining faith as life gets busier, the significance of surrendering control as a father, and the unconditional love depicted in the parable of the Prodigal Son. The conversation emphasizes the need for proactive faith and the role of love in parenting and relationships.
Takeaways
Success isn't measured by career, wealth or status, but by faithfulness.
The question 'Where did you see God today?' can transform perspectives.
Surrendering control is essential for fathers to trust God's plan.
God's love is unconditional and not based on our actions.
The Prodigal Son illustrates the depth of a father's love.
We must actively seek God in our daily lives.
Love is a sacrificial act that goes beyond self-preservation.
The Holy Spirit empowers us to love others, even when it's hard.
Parenting is a journey of planting seeds of faith in our children.
True love is demonstrated through actions, not just words.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Young Dad Podcast
01:59 Paul Granger's Faith Journey
05:59 The Challenge of Seeing God in Daily Life
09:23 Proactively Seeking God
14:00 The Role of the Spirit in Our Lives
19:02 Surrendering Control as a Father
24:01 The Prodigal Son: Lessons for Fathers
30:41 Understanding God's Love Through the Prodigal Son
33:50 The Unconditional Nature of a Father's Love
37:20 The Journey of Redemption and Acceptance
40:21 The Depth of Love and Its Implications
42:35 Living Out Love in Everyday Life
46:50 Allowing God's Love to Flow Through Us
53:31 Advice for New Fathers: Embracing God's Guidance
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
And welcome into the Young Dad podcast, whether you're outside
grilling, mowing the lawn, changing dirty diapers, or
maybe, just maybe you got a moment to sit back, relax and
listen to your favorite podcast with, you know, this one because
you listen to it and you're relaxing.
But anyways, thank you for beinghere and thanks for tuning in.
And of course, thanks for telling a friend about the show.
I'm your host, Jay. Today's guest is Paul.
(00:31):
We love a good Paul on the podcast.
We always have had many men, many men named Paul on the show.
I don't know why, but every PaulI've ever talked to you, I've
never met a Paul I didn't like. So that's a good thing.
This hall, however, Paul Granger, a minister, content
creator and full time face shepherd who has spent over 20
years serving in ministry. His podcast, Where Did You See
(00:51):
God Challenge People? Challenges people to seek God in
everyday moments, big and small.Paul believes success isn't
measured by career, wealth or status, by faithfulness and
obedience to God's call. He and his family have embraced
a radical faith, trusting God toprovide, living out his love in
their community, and inviting others into a real, authentic
dialogue about faith and life. So you're ready for this one.
(01:14):
Make sure you grab your juice box, grab a snack, and let's
jump into the conversation. Paul, welcome to the show.
Great to be here. And you know what's funny is
I've met very few Paul's in my life.
So it's good that you're, you're, you're, you're meeting
all the Paul's. It's a good name.
We're a good group of folks. We have our own little club get
together once a month. Must be nice because I just
(01:35):
never meet anyone else named Jayor by my legal name Jewel.
Never, never meet anyone else that name very often.
It was funny in my very first college course I ever took.
Very first class, very first day, very first day, everything
of my freshman year. First class, I sit behind a
girl. No joke.
Same name as me, same first name, same spelling, everything.
(01:57):
Craziest, craziest thing. We were both full, absolutely
flabbergasted. Yeah.
Good times. And then I when I lived in
Arizona, I worked with another girl, same name and everything.
I was like, this is this is weird.
I'm supposed to be the only one here.
Yeah. And we all think that, right?
We all think that same thing. But Paul, can you kind of take
(02:19):
us back on on your journey, yourfaith journey?
I'm kind of what shape the last 20 years of what you've been
doing? What are what were some of those
turning point or things that happened in your life that
really started to lead you down this time?
Yeah. Well, you know, what's funny is
when you're young, you have no concept of what the future is.
(02:41):
And if you grew up in the church, you just believe God is
God because that's what you've been told.
And I think the big moment in life is when you reach those
preteen teenage years and your brain starts forming and you
start to really ask those harderquestions about life, like what
in the world is life? If this God is real, what does
(03:03):
that actually mean? And I know for me, that was a
pivotal moment in my faith because I grew up in the church.
I always went to church. But in middle school, I began to
realize, if I'm going to say that I'm a Christian, that
should probably mean something in how I function, where my life
(03:24):
is heading, how I talk, how I interact with others.
And if it doesn't, then what is it that I actually.
And so I, I feel like that willingness to ask that
question, that that positioning was a turning point in my faith
from not just being a human thatwas wearing a Christian label,
(03:44):
but becoming somebody who was desiring to be a Christ follower
and wanting to shape my life around that.
And so in that moment, I just suddenly had this sense that my
life was going to be focused on ministry, had no concept of what
that meant, but it was very clear that it would not follow a
normal trajectory. And that has proven to be the
(04:06):
case. You know, as you mentioned, for
the last couple of decades, I have pretty much served in
ministry non-stop in varying forms, whether it was formally
with a ministry or the last six years I've been a full time,
I've been in full time volunteerministry.
I haven't gotten a traditional paycheck and everything in
(04:27):
between from functional specificministry projects to organic
sitting on the porch and talkingto a neighbor ministry.
It's, it's all been this wild, wild journey for definitely the
last 20 years, but even longer than that.
And yeah, there have been so many pivotal moments that have
(04:48):
pushed me to keep asking that question.
If I really believe in God, if I'm really saying I'm a Christ
follower, then how, how does that impact my life?
How does that impact what I say and do and who I interact with
and how I interact with them? And as I enter these new phases
of life, I'm coming to realize it's important to ask those
questions because what that meant when I was a middle
(05:10):
schooler is different when I wasin college.
And what that meant when I was in college is different when I
was a, you know, new adult trying to figure out what it
meant to live. And now as a father, you know,
it means something entirely different again.
And that's going to continue. You get that sense in Scripture,
(05:31):
the apostle Paul says, not that I've arrived in a cheap
perfection, but I continue to run the race.
I mean, even at the end, he was still realizing there was so
much more to not just learn about God, but who God made him
to be and what that meant for that day.
And so that's that's where I am now.
I'm striving to live in such a way where every day I try to
(05:54):
seek God and then try to live out what I feel like He's
inviting me to I. Love that.
That's so cool because it you mentioned that it changes over
time, right? Like our, our faith changes over
time, our circumstances, right? And.
Sometimes in those circumstances, it could be
really hard to, to see God, right, to find God and to see
that along the way. Also, it's very easy to lose as
(06:15):
we get older, right? Because life just gets busier.
It gets harder. It gets harder to, you know,
continue to make time to do all the things right, You know, and
we, we assume as we, we put things off, it's like, I'll just
set off for another day. I'll put that off for another
day. I'll put that off or I'll just
do that or, you know, I have to do this other thing or I haven't
(06:36):
seen this person in a while. They're in town, they want to go
get brunch on Sunday kind of thing.
So I'll just, I'll just, you know, move these things around
kind of thing, right? And so it changes over time,
right? And you know, God doesn't change
over time. Same God, we as humans change.
We as man change. And so it's really interesting
in that way. But you've spent years asking
(06:57):
people, you know that one simplequestion.
Where did you see God today? Why?
Why do you think this is such a powerful and transformative
question for people? Yeah.
So back in maybe 2006, I was serving with a ministry called
Urban Promise Wilmington. And you know, we were all a
group of people that we're doingthe ministry because we really
(07:20):
wanted to love God and love others.
We weren't making a lot of money.
I was definitely not making money as an intern.
And so we were striving to be there for God, seeking reasons.
And I mentioned that because it was very interesting then how I
responded in one meeting that has just stuck in my mind.
The executive director, Rob Prestowitz had gathered the
(07:42):
staff and said, all right, we'regoing to go around the table and
I want you each to tell me whereyou saw God today, where you saw
God this week. And here I am full time,
essentially volunteer ministry day in and day out, trying to
love God and love others. And I had no answer.
(08:05):
And he's going around the table and I am, I'm just scrounging in
my brain. What is some story I can tell?
I was running an after school program and I'm like, is there
something one of the kids did orlike what, what can I pull from?
Because he's about to get to me and I have to have an answer and
he gets to me and I come up withsomething about some kid doing
their homework that normally didn't do their homework.
(08:25):
And that's where I saw God felt like, OK, good check and we can
move on. And he did not.
He's like, but why? Why did you think that was God?
I'm like, I don't know. Because I, I didn't really have
an answer. And that stuck with me.
Why is it someone who was doing full time ministry couldn't
(08:47):
answer what should have been a softball question?
Not just a softball question, but should have been something
that I had dozens of answers for?
Why was that? And I realized it was because
even though I was functionally serving God, I wasn't
necessarily seeking Him. I wasn't necessarily looking for
Him. I was doing the ministry work,
(09:09):
but I wasn't in connection with him even as I thought I was,
even as I was praying, because if I was in authentic deep
connection with them, then I would recognize him in the
midst. And so I realized I could not
continue to do this thing where I retroactively looked for God,
where I got to the end of the day and then said, OK, wait, you
(09:31):
know, God must have been there somewhere.
Let me try to find him because our memories are awful.
We'll forget things or we'll we'll change our memories.
No, I realized I needed to be proactive and looking for God.
I needed to start the day saying, you know what, God is
going to be present and active. So how can I have eyes to see
that? And I think the hardest part of
that is that we want to believe as people and we want to believe
(09:52):
as Christians that once we make a commitment like that, we're
going to hold to it. And anybody that's read the
Bible knows that it's full of stories of people who had good
intentions and then fell short. The apostle Paul says, I don't
understand what I do because thethings I want to do I don't do
and the things I don't want to do, I do.
And so I realized it couldn't just be this one time decision
(10:17):
that OK, from now on I'm going to see God.
It had to be an ongoing and continuing decision to choose to
proactively look for him. And I think this is important
because I believe that God is actually real and that he
actually does exist, that he actually is working.
And I believe what you said thatso often in our life, there's
(10:39):
plenty of things that distract us to take our focus, to fill
our time. And for some reason, as people,
even though we were made in the image of God, even though God is
pursuing us, even though we may want to seek him, for some
reason, so often as people, we let our minds get distracted, we
let our time get filled, and we allow God to be put in the back
(11:01):
burner of our mind. And so a question like this or
any similar question is one thatcan serve to reorient us on a
continuing regular basis, to pull us from the ways that we
might default to functioning to say, well, hold up, hold up,
hold up. There's a lot going on, but I
should still seek God. Scripture says seek first the
(11:24):
Kingdom of God and His righteousness.
All these things will be broughtto you.
Like I should probably prioritize God more than I'm
doing. So let me look for Him.
Let me seek him. Let me ask Him.
No. And that's that's a really good
point there too. We still often right?
We, we will put these things off, right?
(11:46):
We'll we'll react right be sitting at the end of the day
and be like, oh man, must have been there somewhere, right.
You know, somewhere along the way, like where can I, where can
I kind of, you know, plug it in.That was that was God maybe.
And then we start going through our day.
But it's very easy to say, Oh no, well, that happened because
it, you know, I just, I just worked hard or that was already
(12:07):
part of the plan or this already.
Happened. Coincidence.
This and coincidence. This and coincidence sad and
this thing happened or this, this happened because I, you
know, I was already doing this. Now it turns into instead of
looking for God, it's like, Oh yeah, well, I did great today.
I was, I was so on top of all mystuff today, like, and then that
starts to creep in. It starts to creep in right
(12:28):
where it's like, I did all thesethings and you know, it was me,
not God kind of thing. And so that, that other
perspective, the other voice started to creep up like I, you
know, maybe I don't, maybe I don't need God.
Maybe God isn't there. Maybe God isn't as real, which
is why it's so important to flipthat perspective, to flip that
perspective and be like, you know, no, let's let's actively
seek 1st and then, you know, fine, let's seek then fine,
(12:53):
right? We don't find then seek kind.
Of thing. So we got to, we got to seek
first to come out and then, you know, be proactive.
And I think that's a really, really good point to make here.
You know, there's a verse of theDay widget on my phone.
Well, it's really more verse of the hour.
It changes every hour and right before we started recording it
(13:14):
was referencing a verse in Romans 8.
And so I pulled it back up and verse 5 says those who live
according to the flesh have their minds set on what the
flesh desires, but those who live in accordance with the
Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed
(13:35):
by the Spirit is life and peace.The mind governed by the flesh
is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law,
nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of
the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the
realm of the flesh, but are in the realm of the Spirit, if
indeed the Spirit of God lives in you and I.
(13:55):
I feel like that's the other piece of what I'm beginning to
learn because, you know, we growup believing this idea that
there is a certain way that you're supposed to function and
live. There's a certain set of rules
that you need to follow. And if you do all that, then
life will be good. And then you begin to realize as
(14:16):
you get older and older how hardit is to do that.
Then you begin to get older and realize there's different sets
of rules, different sets of expectations, and it can be very
hard to know how to function holistically.
And you know, I love that this passage emphasizes something
(14:37):
that is is good news in those spaces, which is the role of the
spirit in all this, because in and of ourselves, like we're
just flesh, our body, like it's just, we're just going to
function as humans function. But then Jesus talks about
sending this helper who's going to he's going to remind you of
all I've taught you and teach you things and equip you to do
things you couldn't do on your own.
(14:58):
That's good news for us because what you and I know is we get it
wrong often. And the idea that there is this
spirit that can help us to function and live in a different
way than we would by default. To function and live in a way
that we couldn't even with our best intentions, man, that is.
That isn't because now it doesn't rest on you and me,
(15:21):
right? Like I shared with you earlier
that I got about 3 hours of sleep.
I still had to take my kids to school.
I'm still going to have to go and pick them up.
I still have responsibilities like I'm I'm still going to have
to function. I'm very tired right now though.
And this is a reality of life when you stretch it out like
(15:42):
I've got three young kids. So being tired is not an
uncommon thing. Being busy is not an uncommon
thing. And it can be easy for a human
to get to the end of themselves.And so to know that Scripture
tells us that, yes, there is an end to ourselves and also there
is a spirit that can provide a capacity beyond ourselves,
(16:04):
suddenly that gives us access toa reality we could never have
gotten to our own. But Ephesians 320 says to him
who's able to do immeasurably more, far exceedingly more than
anything we could ask or imaginebecause of the power at work
within us. Like, I love that passage
because it says whatever I'm asking for, God get me through
this day, God fix this situation, whatever I'm
(16:26):
imagining, man, I would be really happy if this is where
life went, if this thing happened.
What I'm asking for and imagining is small compared to
what God's able to do and what the power at work within us is
already accomplishing. And so that's good.
I'm not limited to my imagination.
I'm not limited to my understanding of needs, and I'm
(16:47):
not limited to my capacity. I am.
If I'm willing, I can fall undera unlimited God whose abilities
and imagination are limitless. Yeah, no, absolutely.
And we just have to find that inourselves, right?
We have to integrate, you know, this, this mindset, this track
(17:09):
daily, right? It's not just a one time thing,
right? It's an every single day thing
that we have to take up. We have to walk, we have to do
this every single day, especially when we feel
overwhelmed by work, maybe parenting responsibilities and
we're just trying to get through, right?
We're just trying to get through.
But when we put it in the context that you're talking
(17:29):
about here, it's very easy for us to be like, Oh, wait, I, my
problems are so small on the grand scheme thing, right?
I like I, this is so little likemy God can do anything,
anything, anything and then somethat he wants to do in my life
for my life kind of thing. You know, I could sleep for like
you're saying 3 hours here. I think I slept for maybe
(17:51):
5:00-ish or so. And but we still have all the
day to get through, right? We slept all day to get through
still. And so it's like, man, I still
got to get through all this day.But you know, we push and we, we
do the things we have to do. The energy is kind of, kind of
comes, right? It'll come up, it'll boost,
it'll start, it'll we'll feel itthroughout the day I guess.
(18:12):
So I'm getting that. I'm also under caffeinated here,
so I don't think I'm getting allmy points across as clearly as I
want to. It's sounding good.
It's sounding good. But you know, it'll come into
our life, you know, the Spirit of God, it'll work in our life.
There's no doubt about it. But we do have to be able to
release control, right? That that I think is the the
(18:34):
hardest thing is we have to let go of control is we want to,
especially as dads, right? We really have like a lot of
control with God, right? I give a lot of things up
because we are here, we are put in, put in our role to protect,
provide and plan for everything.But faith is also an act of
surrendering at the same time. How can, how can people, how can
(18:55):
let's just really talk about dad.
How can Dad work to find this balance responsibility with
trusting God's plan to them? Yeah, you know it.
It's that that surrender peace is particularly hard because I
think we underestimate what thatmeans.
So as you were talking, it reminded me of the reading today
(19:17):
from My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers, which
interestingly, I have seasons where I'll read that in seasons
where I won't. I'm currently in a won't season.
And yet for some reason it was opened up on my phone.
So I'm like, all right, let me go ahead and read it.
And he's referencing Galatians 220.
I have been crucified with Christ.
(19:37):
And he says Paul doesn't say I've decided to imitate Christ
or I'm interested in following Christ.
He says I have been crucified with Christ.
He has become identified with Christ in Christ.
Death in my spiritual life, the essential need is to sign the
death warrant of my sinful disposition.
(19:58):
I must issue a moral verdict against the idea that I have a
right to myself, drawing on every emotion and intellectual
to what my disposal. To make the decision Paul made.
When I do, when I come to the decision to identify myself with
Christ's death, everything that Christ won on the cross is
realized in me. By freely committing myself to
(20:21):
God, I allow the Holy Spirit to impart to me the holiness of
Jesus Christ. And he goes on.
But I love this notion of reallyowning the depth of what
sacrifice looks like. Because we can talk about giving
up control, but we tend to stillhold onto the control of our
(20:43):
expectations of what life is supposed to look like, of how
things are supposed to function.And that can become a very
draining, daunting or destructive thing, particularly.
And for fathers, the good fatherwants the best for their
children, wants their children to thrive.
(21:04):
A good Christian father also wants them to come to a deeper
understanding of who God is. And every good father aside from
God has moments of realizing howoften they fail at that, how
often weeks pass and they realize, umm, have have.
When was the last time I prayed with my kids?
Or when was the last time you read the Bible together?
Or am I really conveying God in a healthy way?
(21:26):
Or are they seeing the ways thatI'm not seeking God well?
Or because we have this idea in our head of what a perfect
father should look like and how they should raise their
children. And the more we don't live up to
that, the harder it is to believe we can live up to
anything close to that. And I'm encouraged by passages
(21:46):
like the one about the prodigal son.
And we tend to focus on the son in that passage.
But what's encouraging for fathers in that passage is this
is a seemingly perfect father. There's nothing in the passage
that indicates that he is a bad father, that he's dropped the
ball in any kind of way. It seems like he is a good
father. And this good father raised a
(22:09):
son that did an awful thing. That said, Dad, you're as good
as dead to me because I want themoney that's owed to me when you
die. So go ahead and be make it like
you're dead. Give me the money so I can go
and do what I want to do. Go and live the life that I want
to live. And his father like did it, gave
(22:30):
the son the money. And then we follow the son.
But meanwhile, this father, you,you get the sense that he is
longing for his son's return. It's almost like he knows that
his son will return. He hasn't given up on his son.
He hasn't lost hope. And he's watching down the road
for the day, inevitably when theson returns.
But this is a father who seemingly did the right things,
(22:55):
and there was still a hard outcome.
And so when my kids struggle to live in the things that I tried
to impart into them, when they struggle to believe the truths
that I tried to convey to them instead of feeling like I must
have failed, there's an opportunity within this passage
to say this is a hard part of reality and this is a hard part
(23:18):
of the human condition, that youcan do all the right things, but
someone might not get it at the moment, particularly because
true truth doesn't come from my intellect.
When Jesus asked the disciples who do people say that I am?
They named a lot of answers fromtheir intellect.
And then Jesus pressed him a little further, OK, OK, but but
who do you say that I am? And then Peter says you're the
(23:40):
Christ, the Son of God. And Jesus responds in a very
interesting way. He says flesh and blood didn't
reveal this to you, but the Spirit.
You didn't come up with this because you're a smart guy.
You didn't come up with this logically.
The only reason you were able tosay what you said is because the
Spirit conveyed it to you and spoke it through you.
(24:01):
And so then that means my role as a father is not to pour all
this knowledge and information and truth into my kids.
I mean that I will still convey those things, but my role is to
be an ambassador of Christ. Like if I believe that Christ
has invited me to follow him into his death and he's invited
me to represent him well, then that is my role as a father is
(24:23):
in every interaction with my kids to strive to convey Christ.
Or put another way, if my kids know that I'm ambassador, then
it essentially is like I'm saying this thing that I just
said to you, this is what Christwould say, this thing that I
just did. This is what Christ would do.
My goal should be to strive moreand more imperfectly as it will
be to live into representing Christ well, believing that that
(24:48):
will convey far more than the best theological text that I
could spout out. Right, Because the other piece
to all this is what we know as people.
Sometimes it takes us a while toget stuff.
Now for kids, they have a good excuse.
Their brains aren't fully developed and so there are
actual concepts that they cannotyet grasp that they don't have
(25:10):
the neural pathways to piece this together.
It actually does take time, but you and I are grown and we still
have moments where it just goes over a head or like we know
something and still do the opposite thing.
Again, the apostle Paul even wrestled with this.
And so Jesus throughout Scripture, God throughout
(25:31):
Scripture, demonstrated a patience towards those they are
pouring into because they understand the human condition.
And so as a father, I can have apiece in knowing that my kids
may not understand this now, butthat does not mean a seed wasn't
planted. And as I continue to love them
as the father of the prodigal son did, believing that the
(25:54):
journey is not over, then no matter what happens, there can
be a piece. And this then takes some of the
weight off of parenting, right? Because if you're carrying this
burden of God, I've got to be a perfect father.
I've got to get the all this information to them.
I've got to protect them from all these things like that's,
that's going to be too much. And then if that is happening on
(26:14):
top of also all of your other responsibilities, paying your
taxes, work life stuff, the the roof's leaking.
I mean, it's, it is too much. And so many fathers feel
overwhelmed. Jesus talks about how his yoke
and burden are light. That's what this is talking
about when we are leaning into Christ, when we're striving to
(26:37):
live into being an ambassador first and foremost, and we're
seeking first the Kingdom of Godand his righteousness.
It doesn't mean that all those others burdens don't exist.
But instead of carrying those onour own and trying to carry all
of them like I do with groceriesand load up my arms, I'm
actually taking Christ's yoke and he is carrying those
(26:57):
burdens. And I still have a
responsibility. But it is a shared
responsibility. And thank goodness it's shared
with someone like Christ who is far stronger and far more
knowledgeable than I am. Yeah.
No, thank goodness, because if we were doing it on our own, it
would be not great, right? It would not be good.
It would not go well for anyone.And I love that you brought up
(27:20):
the the prodigal, the parable, the prodigal son there, because
it's such a 1 angle that I didn't really think of.
I've never really thought about the too much about the father
because the story focuses on theson, right?
Very much so, but not really so much on the father.
But the father in that one is depicted as, you know, like
you're saying here, good father overall, like didn't really do
(27:42):
anything, you know, gave in to his son, gave in to his will.
That that's what you really want.
Then, you know, I love you, but you know, here you go.
Go make that mistake, Go, go learn, go live kind of thing.
Like he's like, he like he already knew what was going to
happen, right? That's like a father's
intuition, right? Being in tune with God, being in
tune with the spirit, being like, OK, well, you know, I'm
(28:04):
going to do this. I feel like it's OK for me to
do. I guess I'll see you when you
come back kind of thing. At least that's probably what
the father's seeking in that right in that parable.
Like he's so in tune with the spirit that he knows like, OK,
well, if I, if I get in here, it's going to be a powerful
lesson for, for my son kind of thing.
And that's that's important, right?
Because we don't have all the answers for our kids, right?
Sometimes we have to let them goand we have to let them fail
(28:27):
along the way. Do we want to let that happen?
No, we don't. But at the same time, we have to
be willing to get it. We have to be willing to
surrender to to that plan that we don't know anything about,
that we know nothing about now. We won't know anything about
until it actually like, you know, come full circle for us
(28:48):
and is right in front of us. And you know, when we try to do
it ourselves, we try to, you know, control it.
It doesn't help the situation, doesn't help ourselves, just
ourself out more. You know, we have to find peace,
right? Like you mentioned, your burden
might be heavy because you know,because he's right, it is light,
right? There's there's nothing that he
(29:08):
can't shoulder for you, right? Nothing.
There's nothing in your life that God can't shoulder for you,
nothing at all that hasn't already been shouldered, nothing
at all that hasn't the battle, no battles that haven't already
been won, zero that aren't already fought and won and done.
You may feel like, imagine just being that father and having
that prodigal son saying, you know, I want you to be dead to
(29:28):
me, give me my inheritance, the kind of thing.
OK. But then the end of that story
is really cool too, because God did he, he did.
The father did fully surrender and he was so grateful that his
son was home. He was just so grateful.
He was so happy through a feast to make sure his son felt loved.
And we accepted and welcomed andeverything.
(29:51):
And the brother was like, dad, why, why, why would you do that?
And the brother had a lot to learn.
It was like, I don't remember the exact quote from it, but it
you know, why are, why are you mad that your brother's home
like rejoice, rejoice that he's home, rejoice that he's safe,
rejoice that he's, he's back here with us.
It's like, rejoice, this is good.
(30:12):
This is really good. And the brother's so confused.
He's like, what the heck, Like why?
Why are you so happy? Yeah, kind of thing.
And there's there's jealousy there too, right.
Because he just didn't understand.
He didn't understand. He didn't have the perspective.
He doesn't. He wasn't because he wasn't a
father, right? He didn't understand how much
that meant. Who is that kind of thing?
(30:34):
And wasn't able to put himself in that place until after, you
know, surrendering his self to the faith as well.
Yeah, when it's such a beautifulpassage that conveys in a deeper
way than we realize who God actually is, because Scripture
says that God is love. That's what Scripture says.
(30:56):
But how we tend to think about God is that God is all about
right and wrong. So you better not do the wrong
things, and you better do all the right things.
And what's interesting about this passage is you see both of
those representations in the sons.
You have the son that did all the wrong things, therefore he
doesn't deserve anything from his father.
(31:18):
And you have the son that did all the right things, therefore
he deserves the best things fromhis father.
And both of them are very confused when they find that
their expectation doesn't play out.
The son who the prodigal son feels like he doesn't deserve
anything more than being a servant at this point.
He has lost all right to sonship.
(31:39):
And then the older son feels like, why am I not getting the
fat and calf? Like, why are you not
celebrating me? Because look at all the stuff
that I did. And meanwhile there's the father
who has been consistent this whole time.
His big thing is that he loves his children and wants them in
his life, wants them in his home, wants to be present with
(32:00):
them. That is the most important
thing. Therefore, his one son can do
all the wrong things and still be loved, and the other son can
do all the right thing and not earn more love because the love
is not conditional on what you do or don't do.
And and what I think is great isbeing a father gives me another
(32:22):
unique vantage point to this story because I can think about
my own kids. My own kids do all kinds of
wrong things, right. My youngest son didn't follow
the, the expectations for a morning routine and you know, we
got out the house late. Now there's plenty of times they
say and do things that are really rough.
I, I do not ever love them any less.
(32:42):
Now I, it's not based on a cognitive decision like, oh, I
should love my kids. So like, all right, he did this
and this and I'm going to chooseto still.
No, it's there's this love I have for my kids exists not
because I created it, but it's simple.
It exists and it exists because they exist.
(33:03):
And so therefore, no matter whatthey do, they could do the worst
possible things. I'm still going to love them.
And if they do all the right things, they're not going to
earn bonus love. I'm still going to love them
because my love for them is unconditional.
And so if that is true for me, just some guy who still makes
(33:23):
plenty of mistakes himself, how much more so this God who is
referred to as our Father in Scripture, how much more so is
his love for us? And so when I messed up, he's
not going to love me less. And I don't have to earn his
love by doing all the right things.
And so, yeah, this is a man. We underestimate how powerful
(33:47):
this passage is and how important this passage is, how
we understand God, how we function in life, and then yes,
for fathers, how we then love our own children.
Yeah, knowing the the echoes of this for a father's love are
just are deep, right? Because it's a father's love.
It's not conditional on what youdo, what you did for me, right?
(34:08):
What did you done for me lately kind of thing.
That's what we're talking about.Business.
Being a father isn't about running a business.
Some aspects, running a whole household is kind of like
running a business. There are some parts of it where
you got to be the CEO, right? And you got to make these
executive decisions and things like that.
There are those parts of it, butat the end, the father's love
isn't, isn't conditional. There's no conditions attached
to it. You know, the Love's still going
(34:30):
to be there. And the other son that stayed
home that didn't go and do do all the things like you're
saying here, Like he was like, why didn't, why am I not getting
all this? Like I looked at all the amazing
things I've done and God doesn'tcare about all the amazing
things you've done. He doesn't he, he'll give you
like a nice little good job, champ, good job, pal.
(34:50):
Look at you doing the things you're supposed to be doing kind
of thing where it's more like it's a reassurance and it's
like, yeah, it did good kind of thing.
But it's like, you know, that's not the end all be all kind of
thing. It's not.
And I just actually exactly something I just recently
thought about. So I I'm going to want a leader
at my church. And one of the recent lessons a
(35:10):
few weeks ago was talking about what are we talking about
exactly? We were talking about like
several lessons we talked about actually, but talking about like
the things that you do, right? How much do you do?
And I asked this question again last week.
It's like, OK, can you guys get in or get into heaven with just
doing all the amazing things? If you had trillions upon
(35:33):
trillions of dollars and you went and you adopted every
puppy, every orphan, every. You planted every single tree
that you could all over the world, you cleaned up every
ocean, got every piece of trash out of every single place,
cleaned up every single problem there ever was, do you think
that would still be enough to get you into heaven?
And some of the kids were like, yeah, yeah, I think that would
be enough. Of course.
(35:53):
And it's like, no, still not enough.
You can do all those things but still fall short.
It's very possible. Like that's a real thing.
Like you can do all these amazing things, but what matters
at the end of the day, what truly matters is your
relationship with God, your relationship with the Savior.
(36:14):
That's what matters. And that's the that's the kind
of love that we're talking abouthere with the sort of the
prodigal son is that the father's love was so deep, was
so pure. It was so Christ like that it
didn't matter what his son did. Son probably could have murdered
someone. He probably would have forgiven
him. We don't know the details of
everything the son did. We know that he went and partied
(36:35):
and, you know, lived in the, in the world for a good time,
right? And the father's still there at
the end of the day, you know, I still love you, son, come here,
come here. Let's celebrate, celebrate your
home. Let's celebrate your back with
me because that's all we want. Is that like you mentioned,
right? He's just as happy his son
there, that he gets to be with his son again, that he gets to
(36:56):
celebrate, gets to live his every day by day by day with his
son once again. Give him that love, show him
that love, show him the faith, show him God and just be with
him every single day. And I imagine that's how God
felt when Jesus finally came back from earth, you know, after
he died on the cross, just how happy he was to have his Son
(37:19):
back with him. Yeah, there is this teenager
couple of months back that he had been going through the
foster system and so there's a lot of hardship that he was
navigating in life. And one day he decided to run
away and became. I mean, it just dominated the
news. And to the parents, good
(37:39):
Christian parents that just, their hearts were broken and
they're just, we just want, we just want you to come back home
and say, you know, national search and, you know, they
eventually we're able. And it took a maybe a week or it
was too long of a time for parents longing for their kid to
return. But they, they found him.
(38:00):
They were able to go and get himhome.
And, you know, they knew that his decision to run away was a
very hard, painful, destructive one for him, for them, for
others. I, I don't know what else, what
other decisions he made, but he probably made other decisions in
the midst of that. But what drove them ultimately
(38:23):
and why they were able to receive him with love is because
they recognize that he was lost.He functionally lost, but the
life he had fallen into, of leaving the safety of home and
running off without any resources, they knew was one
that would never sustain him andthat would leave him broken and
(38:46):
defeated. And they longed for him to be
found. And this is what the father says
of the prodigal son. When the older son is so mad.
Why are you celebrating him whenhe did all these bad things?
It's he's like, don't you understand?
Like he was lost like he had, hehad fallen into a reality that
was going to destroy him. This kid who is your brother was
(39:10):
facing destruction and he has been saved from he was lost and
now he's found. He was blind, but now he sees.
And so the father is inviting the son now to a deeper
understanding of what love and relationship is.
Because here's the thing, somebody could be listening to
us and really struggle because they're like, what?
But are you giving a pass? Like, are you just saying if
somebody does the worst things, you're just going to brush it
(39:31):
aside? And that's not what we're
saying. What we're saying is when we
struggled to accept this, it's because we are actually limiting
our understanding of relationship and love.
Love isn't just like sweeping things away.
Love is actually a profoundly deep reality that we have
(39:52):
muddied with other connotations and interpretation.
We will say we love God, and then we'll say we love pizza and
think it means the same thing. Love of pizza is not the same as
what God means when he says He loves us and you know the
Father. Was well aware of the
unfortunate ramifications of hisson's decision.
(40:13):
The father experienced pain. I mean, however long the son was
gone, he carried lament in the depth of his heart every day
when he would look down the road, hoping maybe not today but
maybe tomorrow, like he carried the depth of that sorrow.
You know these, it's not like we're just brushing things
(40:34):
aside. And yet there are passages like
as far as the East is from the West.
Somehow God's love carries an awareness of the consequences of
our destructive choices and a willingness to still accept, to
still receive, to still embrace.And honestly, like, if we ever
(40:55):
get to a point where we think wegrasp that we we need to do a
heart check because I think it'sgoing to take us the entirety of
our lives to scratch the surface.
And it's not until we're in eternity and are actually face
to face. Like what is it possible?
It says now we see in a mirror dimly, but then we will see
clearly face to face. I don't think we will ever
(41:17):
comprehend love until we are fully in the presence of love,
of capital L love. And so in the meantime, we have
to live as though what Scripturesays about love is true.
We have to live as though the invitations Scripture gives are
good ones to receive. So when scripture calls us to
love God, let's strive to do so.Scripture calls us to love
(41:41):
others. Let's strive to do so.
And as Scripture calls us to love our enemies, which makes no
logical sense even if we can make a little pathway there.
But there comes a point at whichit is a not just a foolish, but
a dangerous thing. We choose to believe that
there's something we don't understand about love.
That is why this is worth doing.And so with our kids, it's
(42:03):
easier to do sometimes because they are ours.
But we can use our process of learning to love our kids,
especially when they frustrate us, or they annoy us or they
don't listen to us. Or we can use that to then
implement that same type of lovein other relationships.
(42:24):
Because the love we have for ourchildren is but a glimpse of the
love God has for us, but is alsoa love that can extend beyond
our kids into our everyday livesto our neighbors.
Absolutely. And it can be hard to love your
kids when kids are being kids and do everything kids do.
And we have to, we do have to check ourselves, but that,
(42:44):
that's such an important messagehere, especially as we get
towards the end of our, our, ourconversation here, that message
of love is so, so important, right?
Like, I feel like a lot of Christian churches like mine,
especially, I don't know why I go to a Calvary Chapel and we
have some really, really good, good preachers and some good
pastors and really good staff overall, right.
(43:05):
But for some reason there's this, there's just this thing
against Mormon. I don't know if all different
parts of Christianity feels to against Mormon, but there's not
like a, it's not like a hatred, but there's just like like a
targeting. And I used to be Mormon and I'm
like, you know, it's not really that it's like like it's bad,
like it's pretty much a cult andstuff.
But like you don't got to like angle all this stuff this way
(43:28):
kind of thing. And I remember one time there
was a missionary that came in and talked to the Amana kids.
It was last two years, not this school year that we're currently
in, but last school year and he came in and talked to the kid
and I remember him specifically saying something about Mormon.
And just like the way he was saying it, it was just like next
week I'm going to be teaching a little bit about love, right?
(43:50):
Because that love is what's so important.
And that's the point here, right?
That love, if you want to, you know, help anyone feel God,
learn about God or anything likethat, any part of God, you got
to help him feel love hurt firstand foremost, and you got to
help them feel more comfortable and see like, oh God, God loves
me through this person that I can feel God's love through this
(44:11):
person. And that's the message we need
to be able to communicate more than almost any other message is
that love, that pure, pure agapelove for for others and how how
strong that feels towards that. Because God is love, right?
Everything he does, he does out of love, sent his son to die for
it out of love. He forgives us every single
(44:33):
thing we do out of love. He picks us up when we fall out
of love. You know, sent like I said, sent
his son. He sent all the apostles.
He let Paul, he let Paul live this life that Paul did in the
Bible out of love, right? Every single letter Paul wrote
to every single person, every single group of people in the
Bible without a love, every single warning, every single
(44:54):
thing in the Bible without a love, every single thing,
There's a common message of lovejust because God loved us, God
loved us. So he sent his son.
You know the word, the word was God.
The word is God. And what is God?
God is love, right? So the word is love.
It's all love. And so that's just such an
important, important thing to take away here, right?
In our hardest moment, when it can be so hard to love our
children, when they're just doing all the things that kids
(45:17):
do to frustrate us, annoy us, right?
Find that love. It's the pure love.
That's the pure love of Christ, right?
We find that love beyond and go deeply around us.
We love our enemies to share that love with people.
And then that's when people start to look at us like, you
know what, let me go talk to this this tall dude a little bit
more over here because he's just, he's always just so nice.
He's always so kind. He's always so like giving and
(45:40):
just so great. And I just want to talk to him
because people will get curious,right?
The more you love them, the moreyou show them love, they will
look at you and be like, what the heck, What is up with this
person? So like loving and kind all the
time kind of thing. Yeah, Jesus says, you know, they
will know you are my followers by your love.
Like that is the indicator. That's that's how people know
(46:03):
that you are actually following Jesus.
Or if they don't know who Jesus is that there's something
special because love is actuallykind of unnatural.
Like what true love is is unnatural because what we tend
to always devolve back to as a love of self, a self
preservation and true love agapelove is a sacrificial love.
(46:24):
It's a love that doesn't prioritize self.
And here's the good news for anyone listening, that's like, I
hear you, but this is really hard for me or what this person
did. I, I, I can't get past it or I
want to love my kids, but I am just at the end of myself.
And the good news is what we talked about earlier is that
(46:45):
we're not saying we have to orchestrate love.
We have to create love. We have to, we have to build it
from our own understanding, capacity and desire because all
those things are going to fall short.
Those, all those things are limited.
Now what scripture invites us tois to allow the Spirit to love
through US. There's passage, and I think it
might be in one of John's letters, it says we love because
(47:09):
God first loved us. So our ability to love is not
because of us, it is because of God.
Which means in the moments whereit is the hardest for us to love
good news, it's never hard for God to love.
And so all we have to do is allow him to love through us, to
die to our own desires, to be unloving and to say, I do not
(47:31):
want to show love right now. So God love through me, Holy
Spirit love through me. Which means we can love our
enemies. We can love when we have no
strength. We can love our kids when they
they are just at that stubborn age.
We can love not because of us, but because of God's love.
Well, that is a great message tolead us into the Dad zone.
(47:55):
You may not feel a lot of love into into that in the Dad zone
here, Paul. I do judge a little bit on a
couple of these questions, but that's OK.
I will lightly judge you today. I will judge you.
Just I I will judge you. First question here is so the
dad zone. I guess I'll preface this a
(48:16):
little bit more for the people that are new to the podcast,
barely listening to it. And it's like, come on, it's
been 200 something episode like you should.
I've listened to it by now. I know what the dad Zone is, but
if you don't, dad Zone is a really fun way to just kind of
bring down the podcast and just add some light hearted fun to
it. So first question here, does
pineapple go on pizza? I think this is the beautiful
thing about pizza is pizza can be what somebody wants a pizza
(48:40):
to be, right? And so I personally, I can eat a
pineapple and a pizza, but I don't, I don't necessarily want
it, but I'm not going to judge someone that does.
Because you know what? Because of my mom, sometimes
I'll put anchovy on pizza. Even worse.
And so who am I to judge? Pineapple seems more acceptable
than pepperoni. But I will say I have always
(49:01):
been a person who fruit has its proper place.
I do not like fruit in a salad. Like a fruit salad.
That's fine because it's all fruit.
Well, fruit. Yeah, right.
So, but yes. I don't.
I wouldn't say it belongs on pizza, but if someone wants it
on their pizza, I will not judgeyou.
I will though. I will though.
That's what Paul. And I are different.
I will. I'll take that up judgment.
(49:24):
I will take that up with my savory on my deathbed Heaven.
He's going to be like you judge a lot of people for liking
pineapple on their pizza. I mean, like, look, Lord, I'm
sorry. This was a hill I was willing to
die on and I'm here. Please forgive me.
Can. I can I.
Can I go? Can I?
Can I be like, no, you need no, I'm like, come on, it's just
(49:44):
pizza and I could just see. A giant face.
Palm of just going, Oh my gosh, just not the point.
It's like the point is that you judge so many people for
something so small and I might be like, hey, you know, do you
like it? Do you?
And then what Jesus is going to do, he's going to pop up a
pineapple pizza and he's going to say, eat this if you want in
and I'm going to have to eat thepineapple pizza.
(50:06):
That's what's going to happen. That's what 100% going to have.
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to have. To eat pineapple pizza.
I think I saw that in Revelationsomewhere.
So. I think so, right?
I think that's. I think that's biblical in the
new, the J in the JY version, yeah.
Don't, don't fight me. I don't want to.
Get struck right now, who are three people, dead or alive,
(50:29):
that you would love to have at adinner party?
I mean, you know there is. Always that default Christian
answer of Jesus, but I, I will say I think the chosen has been
helpful for people to like understand Jesus's humanity a
little more. I think Jesus would be a fun guy
to like talk with and engage with.
Man, all my answers, I'm going to be like the cheesy Christian
(50:52):
answers because I also feel likeI've got to go with my namesake,
Paul, say you, you have to, you have.
To like, there's it is, you know, I'd be.
In trouble if I didn't, but there are so many moments where
I just really resonate with how he has how he came to understand
Jesus and his invitation and youknow what I mean.
Let's stay on the Christian theme.
(51:13):
I was just reading from Oswald Chambers.
One thing I love about Oswald Chambers is he didn't set out to
write my utmost for his highs. If I'm understanding correctly,
I, I believe that it's a compilation of other things he's
written or teachings he gave. And so he wasn't setting out to
be this acclaimed author of thisdevotional like that wasn't, he
(51:33):
was just striving to shepherd others in his everyday life.
And I believe it was his wife who then gathered these things
up. And, and so I, I could see him
being someone who is authentic and humble.
And there's so many moments where what he wrote, I'm like,
that's, that's me today. Like we read the thing today.
I was like, Yep, I needed that today that I think it would just
be an enjoyable to sit with all those.
(51:55):
But what I will say is someone could say, man, that's just
going to be a boring Bible studydinner.
I feel like those guys would just be fun to be around, right?
And we'd have deep conversation.And that deep, deep conversation
will then lead into the life givingness of the rest of the
interaction. So that's my dinner party.
We're going to be having pineapple pizza.
I'm afraid to tell you, but it'sOK, I'm not.
(52:18):
I wasn't divided, so I'm not. Coming, Phil.
You were divided, so you know. What is your guilty pleasure
food? Huh.
Guilty pleasure. Food, it used to be Nutella and
then I kind of got away from eating a lot of sugar, But I
mean, I would take a a spoon to that.
Also, Oreos were one where I could just knock out a sleeve,
give me a glass of milk Oreos, Icould dip it in there till it's
(52:40):
almost soggy. And I don't know, I think right
now it's not a specific food, but there are times, you know,
you're not supposed to eat late at night.
But there are times where just maybe there's a lot going on in
life or I just feeling hungry and I'll go down.
I'm like, you know, I shouldn't be eating.
It's like 10, It's 11. But I want a pickle right now.
Or you know what, I want to makea little sandwich.
(53:00):
And so I'm going to, I'm going to say that the the late night
snack. Yeah, Yeah.
Always. Right now mine is an
uncrustable. I don't know why.
Something about a great uncrustable that does absolutely
hit the spot 10 out of 10 times.So good.
Even the Walmart version, like the great value version is
actually really good too. I think it's a great value too.
(53:21):
So. It is, it really is.
So, Paul, Very. Last question to wrap all the
things up here, what is one piece of advice, just one, that
you would give to a young dad? Let's just say he's 18 to 22
years old who's just starting out his fatherhood journey.
One piece of advice that you allowed?
Yep, Yep, there is this. Pressure that you got to get it
right and you got to know what you're doing and so someone in
(53:42):
that position can feel very unqualified and I'll equipped my
encouragement is there is a goodfather who has has and continues
to demonstrate what being a father looks like.
And it doesn't mean it's like that Oswald Chambers thing.
It doesn't mean then we say, well, I'm just going to imitate
that because we're going to fallshort.
(54:03):
But I will say to that to that young father, be encouraged
because God can love through you.
God can work through you. God can equip you to be a good
father not because of what you bring to the table, but what he
brings to the table. And so your invitation then is
to seek Him first and trust thatthen everything else will
(54:23):
follow. And when you inevitably mess up,
you inevitably miss an opportunity.
It's OK, because God's love extends even into that space.
Absolutely. And.
So for our listeners, if you guys want to learn more about
Paul, keep up with his podcast blog ministry.
You can head over to where did you see god.com?
(54:46):
That sound right, Paul? Yep, that sounds right.
WHERE in. Case you don't know how which
where we're talking about that'strue.
That's a good point, UE. REDI.
DIOU, you got to spell it out S EE god.com WHEREDIDYOUS EE
god.com like you definitely see someone putting in Word did
(55:11):
letter ucgod.com. I can definitely see that being
a thing. So I need to buy that domain
quick. You might want to.
And then just have it as like a redirect.
But anyways, anyways, to everyone listening, I hope you
that you enjoy this conversation.
Thank you for tuning in. Make sure to rate, review and
share the episode with the teller dad or parent who needs
to hear this. This is an absolutely great
(55:32):
episode. I love how we broke down the
parable of the prodigal son and just how in depth we went in
that one. I think that's important for
every single father to hear, so share it with a dad who needs to
hear it, who needs to hear that breakdown of the prodigal, that
story from both our perspectivesand kind of how we broke that
down. I thought that was really cool,
probably my favorite part of theshow overall.
But until next time, stay present, stay engaged, and keep
(55:54):
striving to be the best parent you can be.
And welcome into the Young Dad podcast, whether you're outside
grilling, mowing the lawn, changing dirty diapers, or
maybe, just maybe you got a moment to sit back, relax and
listen to your favorite podcast with, you know, this one because
you listen to it and you're relaxing.
But anyways, thank you for beinghere and thanks for tuning in.
And of course, thanks for telling a friend about the show.
I'm your host, Jay. Today's guest is Paul.
(00:31):
We love a good Paul on the podcast.
We always have had many men, many men named Paul on the show.
I don't know why, but every PaulI've ever talked to you, I've
never met a Paul I didn't like. So that's a good thing.
This hall, however, Paul Granger, a minister, content
creator and full time face shepherd who has spent over 20
years serving in ministry. His podcast, Where Did You See
(00:51):
God Challenge People? Challenges people to seek God in
everyday moments, big and small.Paul believes success isn't
measured by career, wealth or status, by faithfulness and
obedience to God's call. He and his family have embraced
a radical faith, trusting God toprovide, living out his love in
their community, and inviting others into a real, authentic
dialogue about faith and life. So you're ready for this one.
(01:14):
Make sure you grab your juice box, grab a snack, and let's
jump into the conversation. Paul, welcome to the show.
Great to be here. And you know what's funny is
I've met very few Paul's in my life.
So it's good that you're, you're, you're, you're meeting
all the Paul's. It's a good name.
We're a good group of folks. We have our own little club get
together once a month. Must be nice because I just
(01:35):
never meet anyone else named Jayor by my legal name Jewel.
Never, never meet anyone else that name very often.
It was funny in my very first college course I ever took.
Very first class, very first day, very first day, everything
of my freshman year. First class, I sit behind a
girl. No joke.
Same name as me, same first name, same spelling, everything.
(01:57):
Craziest, craziest thing. We were both full, absolutely
flabbergasted. Yeah.
Good times. And then I when I lived in
Arizona, I worked with another girl, same name and everything.
I was like, this is this is weird.
I'm supposed to be the only one here.
Yeah. And we all think that, right?
We all think that same thing. But Paul, can you kind of take
(02:19):
us back on on your journey, yourfaith journey?
I'm kind of what shape the last 20 years of what you've been
doing? What are what were some of those
turning point or things that happened in your life that
really started to lead you down this time?
Yeah. Well, you know, what's funny is
when you're young, you have no concept of what the future is.
(02:41):
And if you grew up in the church, you just believe God is
God because that's what you've been told.
And I think the big moment in life is when you reach those
preteen teenage years and your brain starts forming and you
start to really ask those harderquestions about life, like what
in the world is life? If this God is real, what does
(03:03):
that actually mean? And I know for me, that was a
pivotal moment in my faith because I grew up in the church.
I always went to church. But in middle school, I began to
realize, if I'm going to say that I'm a Christian, that
should probably mean something in how I function, where my life
(03:24):
is heading, how I talk, how I interact with others.
And if it doesn't, then what is it that I actually.
And so I, I feel like that willingness to ask that
question, that that positioning was a turning point in my faith
from not just being a human thatwas wearing a Christian label,
(03:44):
but becoming somebody who was desiring to be a Christ follower
and wanting to shape my life around that.
And so in that moment, I just suddenly had this sense that my
life was going to be focused on ministry, had no concept of what
that meant, but it was very clear that it would not follow a
normal trajectory. And that has proven to be the
(04:06):
case. You know, as you mentioned, for
the last couple of decades, I have pretty much served in
ministry non-stop in varying forms, whether it was formally
with a ministry or the last six years I've been a full time,
I've been in full time volunteerministry.
I haven't gotten a traditional paycheck and everything in
(04:27):
between from functional specificministry projects to organic
sitting on the porch and talkingto a neighbor ministry.
It's, it's all been this wild, wild journey for definitely the
last 20 years, but even longer than that.
And yeah, there have been so many pivotal moments that have
(04:48):
pushed me to keep asking that question.
If I really believe in God, if I'm really saying I'm a Christ
follower, then how, how does that impact my life?
How does that impact what I say and do and who I interact with
and how I interact with them? And as I enter these new phases
of life, I'm coming to realize it's important to ask those
questions because what that meant when I was a middle
(05:10):
schooler is different when I wasin college.
And what that meant when I was in college is different when I
was a, you know, new adult trying to figure out what it
meant to live. And now as a father, you know,
it means something entirely different again.
And that's going to continue. You get that sense in Scripture,
(05:31):
the apostle Paul says, not that I've arrived in a cheap
perfection, but I continue to run the race.
I mean, even at the end, he was still realizing there was so
much more to not just learn about God, but who God made him
to be and what that meant for that day.
And so that's that's where I am now.
I'm striving to live in such a way where every day I try to
(05:54):
seek God and then try to live out what I feel like He's
inviting me to I. Love that.
That's so cool because it you mentioned that it changes over
time, right? Like our, our faith changes over
time, our circumstances, right? And.
Sometimes in those circumstances, it could be
really hard to, to see God, right, to find God and to see
that along the way. Also, it's very easy to lose as
(06:15):
we get older, right? Because life just gets busier.
It gets harder. It gets harder to, you know,
continue to make time to do all the things right, You know, and
we, we assume as we, we put things off, it's like, I'll just
set off for another day. I'll put that off for another
day. I'll put that off or I'll just
do that or, you know, I have to do this other thing or I haven't
(06:36):
seen this person in a while. They're in town, they want to go
get brunch on Sunday kind of thing.
So I'll just, I'll just, you know, move these things around
kind of thing, right? And so it changes over time,
right? And you know, God doesn't change
over time. Same God, we as humans change.
We as man change. And so it's really interesting
in that way. But you've spent years asking
(06:57):
people, you know that one simplequestion.
Where did you see God today? Why?
Why do you think this is such a powerful and transformative
question for people? Yeah.
So back in maybe 2006, I was serving with a ministry called
Urban Promise Wilmington. And you know, we were all a
group of people that we're doingthe ministry because we really
(07:20):
wanted to love God and love others.
We weren't making a lot of money.
I was definitely not making money as an intern.
And so we were striving to be there for God, seeking reasons.
And I mentioned that because it was very interesting then how I
responded in one meeting that has just stuck in my mind.
The executive director, Rob Prestowitz had gathered the
(07:42):
staff and said, all right, we'regoing to go around the table and
I want you each to tell me whereyou saw God today, where you saw
God this week. And here I am full time,
essentially volunteer ministry day in and day out, trying to
love God and love others. And I had no answer.
(08:05):
And he's going around the table and I am, I'm just scrounging in
my brain. What is some story I can tell?
I was running an after school program and I'm like, is there
something one of the kids did orlike what, what can I pull from?
Because he's about to get to me and I have to have an answer and
he gets to me and I come up withsomething about some kid doing
their homework that normally didn't do their homework.
(08:25):
And that's where I saw God felt like, OK, good check and we can
move on. And he did not.
He's like, but why? Why did you think that was God?
I'm like, I don't know. Because I, I didn't really have
an answer. And that stuck with me.
Why is it someone who was doing full time ministry couldn't
(08:47):
answer what should have been a softball question?
Not just a softball question, but should have been something
that I had dozens of answers for?
Why was that? And I realized it was because
even though I was functionally serving God, I wasn't
necessarily seeking Him. I wasn't necessarily looking for
Him. I was doing the ministry work,
(09:09):
but I wasn't in connection with him even as I thought I was,
even as I was praying, because if I was in authentic deep
connection with them, then I would recognize him in the
midst. And so I realized I could not
continue to do this thing where I retroactively looked for God,
where I got to the end of the day and then said, OK, wait, you
(09:31):
know, God must have been there somewhere.
Let me try to find him because our memories are awful.
We'll forget things or we'll we'll change our memories.
No, I realized I needed to be proactive and looking for God.
I needed to start the day saying, you know what, God is
going to be present and active. So how can I have eyes to see
that? And I think the hardest part of
that is that we want to believe as people and we want to believe
(09:52):
as Christians that once we make a commitment like that, we're
going to hold to it. And anybody that's read the
Bible knows that it's full of stories of people who had good
intentions and then fell short. The apostle Paul says, I don't
understand what I do because thethings I want to do I don't do
and the things I don't want to do, I do.
And so I realized it couldn't just be this one time decision
(10:17):
that OK, from now on I'm going to see God.
It had to be an ongoing and continuing decision to choose to
proactively look for him. And I think this is important
because I believe that God is actually real and that he
actually does exist, that he actually is working.
And I believe what you said thatso often in our life, there's
(10:39):
plenty of things that distract us to take our focus, to fill
our time. And for some reason, as people,
even though we were made in the image of God, even though God is
pursuing us, even though we may want to seek him, for some
reason, so often as people, we let our minds get distracted, we
let our time get filled, and we allow God to be put in the back
(11:01):
burner of our mind. And so a question like this or
any similar question is one thatcan serve to reorient us on a
continuing regular basis, to pull us from the ways that we
might default to functioning to say, well, hold up, hold up,
hold up. There's a lot going on, but I
should still seek God. Scripture says seek first the
(11:24):
Kingdom of God and His righteousness.
All these things will be broughtto you.
Like I should probably prioritize God more than I'm
doing. So let me look for Him.
Let me seek him. Let me ask Him.
No. And that's that's a really good
point there too. We still often right?
We, we will put these things off, right?
(11:46):
We'll we'll react right be sitting at the end of the day
and be like, oh man, must have been there somewhere, right.
You know, somewhere along the way, like where can I, where can
I kind of, you know, plug it in.That was that was God maybe.
And then we start going through our day.
But it's very easy to say, Oh no, well, that happened because
it, you know, I just, I just worked hard or that was already
(12:07):
part of the plan or this already.
Happened. Coincidence.
This and coincidence. This and coincidence sad and
this thing happened or this, this happened because I, you
know, I was already doing this. Now it turns into instead of
looking for God, it's like, Oh yeah, well, I did great today.
I was, I was so on top of all mystuff today, like, and then that
starts to creep in. It starts to creep in right
(12:28):
where it's like, I did all thesethings and you know, it was me,
not God kind of thing. And so that, that other
perspective, the other voice started to creep up like I, you
know, maybe I don't, maybe I don't need God.
Maybe God isn't there. Maybe God isn't as real, which
is why it's so important to flipthat perspective, to flip that
perspective and be like, you know, no, let's let's actively
seek 1st and then, you know, fine, let's seek then fine,
(12:53):
right? We don't find then seek kind.
Of thing. So we got to, we got to seek
first to come out and then, you know, be proactive.
And I think that's a really, really good point to make here.
You know, there's a verse of theDay widget on my phone.
Well, it's really more verse of the hour.
It changes every hour and right before we started recording it
(13:14):
was referencing a verse in Romans 8.
And so I pulled it back up and verse 5 says those who live
according to the flesh have their minds set on what the
flesh desires, but those who live in accordance with the
Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed
(13:35):
by the Spirit is life and peace.The mind governed by the flesh
is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law,
nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of
the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the
realm of the flesh, but are in the realm of the Spirit, if
indeed the Spirit of God lives in you and I.
(13:55):
I feel like that's the other piece of what I'm beginning to
learn because, you know, we growup believing this idea that
there is a certain way that you're supposed to function and
live. There's a certain set of rules
that you need to follow. And if you do all that, then
life will be good. And then you begin to realize as
(14:16):
you get older and older how hardit is to do that.
Then you begin to get older and realize there's different sets
of rules, different sets of expectations, and it can be very
hard to know how to function holistically.
And you know, I love that this passage emphasizes something
(14:37):
that is is good news in those spaces, which is the role of the
spirit in all this, because in and of ourselves, like we're
just flesh, our body, like it's just, we're just going to
function as humans function. But then Jesus talks about
sending this helper who's going to he's going to remind you of
all I've taught you and teach you things and equip you to do
things you couldn't do on your own.
(14:58):
That's good news for us because what you and I know is we get it
wrong often. And the idea that there is this
spirit that can help us to function and live in a different
way than we would by default. To function and live in a way
that we couldn't even with our best intentions, man, that is.
That isn't because now it doesn't rest on you and me,
(15:21):
right? Like I shared with you earlier
that I got about 3 hours of sleep.
I still had to take my kids to school.
I'm still going to have to go and pick them up.
I still have responsibilities like I'm I'm still going to have
to function. I'm very tired right now though.
And this is a reality of life when you stretch it out like
(15:42):
I've got three young kids. So being tired is not an
uncommon thing. Being busy is not an uncommon
thing. And it can be easy for a human
to get to the end of themselves.And so to know that Scripture
tells us that, yes, there is an end to ourselves and also there
is a spirit that can provide a capacity beyond ourselves,
(16:04):
suddenly that gives us access toa reality we could never have
gotten to our own. But Ephesians 320 says to him
who's able to do immeasurably more, far exceedingly more than
anything we could ask or imaginebecause of the power at work
within us. Like, I love that passage
because it says whatever I'm asking for, God get me through
this day, God fix this situation, whatever I'm
(16:26):
imagining, man, I would be really happy if this is where
life went, if this thing happened.
What I'm asking for and imagining is small compared to
what God's able to do and what the power at work within us is
already accomplishing. And so that's good.
I'm not limited to my imagination.
I'm not limited to my understanding of needs, and I'm
(16:47):
not limited to my capacity. I am.
If I'm willing, I can fall undera unlimited God whose abilities
and imagination are limitless. Yeah, no, absolutely.
And we just have to find that inourselves, right?
We have to integrate, you know, this, this mindset, this track
(17:09):
daily, right? It's not just a one time thing,
right? It's an every single day thing
that we have to take up. We have to walk, we have to do
this every single day, especially when we feel
overwhelmed by work, maybe parenting responsibilities and
we're just trying to get through, right?
We're just trying to get through.
But when we put it in the context that you're talking
(17:29):
about here, it's very easy for us to be like, Oh, wait, I, my
problems are so small on the grand scheme thing, right?
I like I, this is so little likemy God can do anything,
anything, anything and then somethat he wants to do in my life
for my life kind of thing. You know, I could sleep for like
you're saying 3 hours here. I think I slept for maybe
(17:51):
5:00-ish or so. And but we still have all the
day to get through, right? We slept all day to get through
still. And so it's like, man, I still
got to get through all this day.But you know, we push and we, we
do the things we have to do. The energy is kind of, kind of
comes, right? It'll come up, it'll boost,
it'll start, it'll we'll feel itthroughout the day I guess.
(18:12):
So I'm getting that. I'm also under caffeinated here,
so I don't think I'm getting allmy points across as clearly as I
want to. It's sounding good.
It's sounding good. But you know, it'll come into
our life, you know, the Spirit of God, it'll work in our life.
There's no doubt about it. But we do have to be able to
release control, right? That that I think is the the
(18:34):
hardest thing is we have to let go of control is we want to,
especially as dads, right? We really have like a lot of
control with God, right? I give a lot of things up
because we are here, we are put in, put in our role to protect,
provide and plan for everything.But faith is also an act of
surrendering at the same time. How can, how can people, how can
(18:55):
let's just really talk about dad.
How can Dad work to find this balance responsibility with
trusting God's plan to them? Yeah, you know it.
It's that that surrender peace is particularly hard because I
think we underestimate what thatmeans.
So as you were talking, it reminded me of the reading today
(19:17):
from My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers, which
interestingly, I have seasons where I'll read that in seasons
where I won't. I'm currently in a won't season.
And yet for some reason it was opened up on my phone.
So I'm like, all right, let me go ahead and read it.
And he's referencing Galatians 220.
I have been crucified with Christ.
(19:37):
And he says Paul doesn't say I've decided to imitate Christ
or I'm interested in following Christ.
He says I have been crucified with Christ.
He has become identified with Christ in Christ.
Death in my spiritual life, the essential need is to sign the
death warrant of my sinful disposition.
(19:58):
I must issue a moral verdict against the idea that I have a
right to myself, drawing on every emotion and intellectual
to what my disposal. To make the decision Paul made.
When I do, when I come to the decision to identify myself with
Christ's death, everything that Christ won on the cross is
realized in me. By freely committing myself to
(20:21):
God, I allow the Holy Spirit to impart to me the holiness of
Jesus Christ. And he goes on.
But I love this notion of reallyowning the depth of what
sacrifice looks like. Because we can talk about giving
up control, but we tend to stillhold onto the control of our
(20:43):
expectations of what life is supposed to look like, of how
things are supposed to function.And that can become a very
draining, daunting or destructive thing, particularly.
And for fathers, the good fatherwants the best for their
children, wants their children to thrive.
(21:04):
A good Christian father also wants them to come to a deeper
understanding of who God is. And every good father aside from
God has moments of realizing howoften they fail at that, how
often weeks pass and they realize, umm, have have.
When was the last time I prayed with my kids?
Or when was the last time you read the Bible together?
Or am I really conveying God in a healthy way?
(21:26):
Or are they seeing the ways thatI'm not seeking God well?
Or because we have this idea in our head of what a perfect
father should look like and how they should raise their
children. And the more we don't live up to
that, the harder it is to believe we can live up to
anything close to that. And I'm encouraged by passages
(21:46):
like the one about the prodigal son.
And we tend to focus on the son in that passage.
But what's encouraging for fathers in that passage is this
is a seemingly perfect father. There's nothing in the passage
that indicates that he is a bad father, that he's dropped the
ball in any kind of way. It seems like he is a good
father. And this good father raised a
(22:09):
son that did an awful thing. That said, Dad, you're as good
as dead to me because I want themoney that's owed to me when you
die. So go ahead and be make it like
you're dead. Give me the money so I can go
and do what I want to do. Go and live the life that I want
to live. And his father like did it, gave
(22:30):
the son the money. And then we follow the son.
But meanwhile, this father, you,you get the sense that he is
longing for his son's return. It's almost like he knows that
his son will return. He hasn't given up on his son.
He hasn't lost hope. And he's watching down the road
for the day, inevitably when theson returns.
But this is a father who seemingly did the right things,
(22:55):
and there was still a hard outcome.
And so when my kids struggle to live in the things that I tried
to impart into them, when they struggle to believe the truths
that I tried to convey to them instead of feeling like I must
have failed, there's an opportunity within this passage
to say this is a hard part of reality and this is a hard part
(23:18):
of the human condition, that youcan do all the right things, but
someone might not get it at the moment, particularly because
true truth doesn't come from my intellect.
When Jesus asked the disciples who do people say that I am?
They named a lot of answers fromtheir intellect.
And then Jesus pressed him a little further, OK, OK, but but
who do you say that I am? And then Peter says you're the
(23:40):
Christ, the Son of God. And Jesus responds in a very
interesting way. He says flesh and blood didn't
reveal this to you, but the Spirit.
You didn't come up with this because you're a smart guy.
You didn't come up with this logically.
The only reason you were able tosay what you said is because the
Spirit conveyed it to you and spoke it through you.
(24:01):
And so then that means my role as a father is not to pour all
this knowledge and information and truth into my kids.
I mean that I will still convey those things, but my role is to
be an ambassador of Christ. Like if I believe that Christ
has invited me to follow him into his death and he's invited
me to represent him well, then that is my role as a father is
(24:23):
in every interaction with my kids to strive to convey Christ.
Or put another way, if my kids know that I'm ambassador, then
it essentially is like I'm saying this thing that I just
said to you, this is what Christwould say, this thing that I
just did. This is what Christ would do.
My goal should be to strive moreand more imperfectly as it will
be to live into representing Christ well, believing that that
(24:48):
will convey far more than the best theological text that I
could spout out. Right, Because the other piece
to all this is what we know as people.
Sometimes it takes us a while toget stuff.
Now for kids, they have a good excuse.
Their brains aren't fully developed and so there are
actual concepts that they cannotyet grasp that they don't have
(25:10):
the neural pathways to piece this together.
It actually does take time, but you and I are grown and we still
have moments where it just goes over a head or like we know
something and still do the opposite thing.
Again, the apostle Paul even wrestled with this.
And so Jesus throughout Scripture, God throughout
(25:31):
Scripture, demonstrated a patience towards those they are
pouring into because they understand the human condition.
And so as a father, I can have apiece in knowing that my kids
may not understand this now, butthat does not mean a seed wasn't
planted. And as I continue to love them
as the father of the prodigal son did, believing that the
(25:54):
journey is not over, then no matter what happens, there can
be a piece. And this then takes some of the
weight off of parenting, right? Because if you're carrying this
burden of God, I've got to be a perfect father.
I've got to get the all this information to them.
I've got to protect them from all these things like that's,
that's going to be too much. And then if that is happening on
(26:14):
top of also all of your other responsibilities, paying your
taxes, work life stuff, the the roof's leaking.
I mean, it's, it is too much. And so many fathers feel
overwhelmed. Jesus talks about how his yoke
and burden are light. That's what this is talking
about when we are leaning into Christ, when we're striving to
(26:37):
live into being an ambassador first and foremost, and we're
seeking first the Kingdom of Godand his righteousness.
It doesn't mean that all those others burdens don't exist.
But instead of carrying those onour own and trying to carry all
of them like I do with groceriesand load up my arms, I'm
actually taking Christ's yoke and he is carrying those
(26:57):
burdens. And I still have a
responsibility. But it is a shared
responsibility. And thank goodness it's shared
with someone like Christ who is far stronger and far more
knowledgeable than I am. Yeah.
No, thank goodness, because if we were doing it on our own, it
would be not great, right? It would not be good.
It would not go well for anyone.And I love that you brought up
(27:20):
the the prodigal, the parable, the prodigal son there, because
it's such a 1 angle that I didn't really think of.
I've never really thought about the too much about the father
because the story focuses on theson, right?
Very much so, but not really so much on the father.
But the father in that one is depicted as, you know, like
you're saying here, good father overall, like didn't really do
(27:42):
anything, you know, gave in to his son, gave in to his will.
That that's what you really want.
Then, you know, I love you, but you know, here you go.
Go make that mistake, Go, go learn, go live kind of thing.
Like he's like, he like he already knew what was going to
happen, right? That's like a father's
intuition, right? Being in tune with God, being in
tune with the spirit, being like, OK, well, you know, I'm
(28:04):
going to do this. I feel like it's OK for me to
do. I guess I'll see you when you
come back kind of thing. At least that's probably what
the father's seeking in that right in that parable.
Like he's so in tune with the spirit that he knows like, OK,
well, if I, if I get in here, it's going to be a powerful
lesson for, for my son kind of thing.
And that's that's important, right?
Because we don't have all the answers for our kids, right?
Sometimes we have to let them goand we have to let them fail
(28:27):
along the way. Do we want to let that happen?
No, we don't. But at the same time, we have to
be willing to get it. We have to be willing to
surrender to to that plan that we don't know anything about,
that we know nothing about now. We won't know anything about
until it actually like, you know, come full circle for us
(28:48):
and is right in front of us. And you know, when we try to do
it ourselves, we try to, you know, control it.
It doesn't help the situation, doesn't help ourselves, just
ourself out more. You know, we have to find peace,
right? Like you mentioned, your burden
might be heavy because you know,because he's right, it is light,
right? There's there's nothing that he
(29:08):
can't shoulder for you, right? Nothing.
There's nothing in your life that God can't shoulder for you,
nothing at all that hasn't already been shouldered, nothing
at all that hasn't the battle, no battles that haven't already
been won, zero that aren't already fought and won and done.
You may feel like, imagine just being that father and having
that prodigal son saying, you know, I want you to be dead to
(29:28):
me, give me my inheritance, the kind of thing.
OK. But then the end of that story
is really cool too, because God did he, he did.
The father did fully surrender and he was so grateful that his
son was home. He was just so grateful.
He was so happy through a feast to make sure his son felt loved.
And we accepted and welcomed andeverything.
(29:51):
And the brother was like, dad, why, why, why would you do that?
And the brother had a lot to learn.
It was like, I don't remember the exact quote from it, but it
you know, why are, why are you mad that your brother's home
like rejoice, rejoice that he's home, rejoice that he's safe,
rejoice that he's, he's back here with us.
It's like, rejoice, this is good.
(30:12):
This is really good. And the brother's so confused.
He's like, what the heck, Like why?
Why are you so happy? Yeah, kind of thing.
And there's there's jealousy there too, right.
Because he just didn't understand.
He didn't understand. He didn't have the perspective.
He doesn't. He wasn't because he wasn't a
father, right? He didn't understand how much
that meant. Who is that kind of thing?
(30:34):
And wasn't able to put himself in that place until after, you
know, surrendering his self to the faith as well.
Yeah, when it's such a beautifulpassage that conveys in a deeper
way than we realize who God actually is, because Scripture
says that God is love. That's what Scripture says.
(30:56):
But how we tend to think about God is that God is all about
right and wrong. So you better not do the wrong
things, and you better do all the right things.
And what's interesting about this passage is you see both of
those representations in the sons.
You have the son that did all the wrong things, therefore he
doesn't deserve anything from his father.
(31:18):
And you have the son that did all the right things, therefore
he deserves the best things fromhis father.
And both of them are very confused when they find that
their expectation doesn't play out.
The son who the prodigal son feels like he doesn't deserve
anything more than being a servant at this point.
He has lost all right to sonship.
(31:39):
And then the older son feels like, why am I not getting the
fat and calf? Like, why are you not
celebrating me? Because look at all the stuff
that I did. And meanwhile there's the father
who has been consistent this whole time.
His big thing is that he loves his children and wants them in
his life, wants them in his home, wants to be present with
(32:00):
them. That is the most important
thing. Therefore, his one son can do
all the wrong things and still be loved, and the other son can
do all the right thing and not earn more love because the love
is not conditional on what you do or don't do.
And and what I think is great isbeing a father gives me another
(32:22):
unique vantage point to this story because I can think about
my own kids. My own kids do all kinds of
wrong things, right. My youngest son didn't follow
the, the expectations for a morning routine and you know, we
got out the house late. Now there's plenty of times they
say and do things that are really rough.
I, I do not ever love them any less.
(32:42):
Now I, it's not based on a cognitive decision like, oh, I
should love my kids. So like, all right, he did this
and this and I'm going to chooseto still.
No, it's there's this love I have for my kids exists not
because I created it, but it's simple.
It exists and it exists because they exist.
(33:03):
And so therefore, no matter whatthey do, they could do the worst
possible things. I'm still going to love them.
And if they do all the right things, they're not going to
earn bonus love. I'm still going to love them
because my love for them is unconditional.
And so if that is true for me, just some guy who still makes
(33:23):
plenty of mistakes himself, how much more so this God who is
referred to as our Father in Scripture, how much more so is
his love for us? And so when I messed up, he's
not going to love me less. And I don't have to earn his
love by doing all the right things.
And so, yeah, this is a man. We underestimate how powerful
(33:47):
this passage is and how important this passage is, how
we understand God, how we function in life, and then yes,
for fathers, how we then love our own children.
Yeah, knowing the the echoes of this for a father's love are
just are deep, right? Because it's a father's love.
It's not conditional on what youdo, what you did for me, right?
(34:08):
What did you done for me lately kind of thing.
That's what we're talking about.Business.
Being a father isn't about running a business.
Some aspects, running a whole household is kind of like
running a business. There are some parts of it where
you got to be the CEO, right? And you got to make these
executive decisions and things like that.
There are those parts of it, butat the end, the father's love
isn't, isn't conditional. There's no conditions attached
to it. You know, the Love's still going
(34:30):
to be there. And the other son that stayed
home that didn't go and do do all the things like you're
saying here, Like he was like, why didn't, why am I not getting
all this? Like I looked at all the amazing
things I've done and God doesn'tcare about all the amazing
things you've done. He doesn't he, he'll give you
like a nice little good job, champ, good job, pal.
(34:50):
Look at you doing the things you're supposed to be doing kind
of thing where it's more like it's a reassurance and it's
like, yeah, it did good kind of thing.
But it's like, you know, that's not the end all be all kind of
thing. It's not.
And I just actually exactly something I just recently
thought about. So I I'm going to want a leader
at my church. And one of the recent lessons a
(35:10):
few weeks ago was talking about what are we talking about
exactly? We were talking about like
several lessons we talked about actually, but talking about like
the things that you do, right? How much do you do?
And I asked this question again last week.
It's like, OK, can you guys get in or get into heaven with just
doing all the amazing things? If you had trillions upon
(35:33):
trillions of dollars and you went and you adopted every
puppy, every orphan, every. You planted every single tree
that you could all over the world, you cleaned up every
ocean, got every piece of trash out of every single place,
cleaned up every single problem there ever was, do you think
that would still be enough to get you into heaven?
And some of the kids were like, yeah, yeah, I think that would
be enough. Of course.
(35:53):
And it's like, no, still not enough.
You can do all those things but still fall short.
It's very possible. Like that's a real thing.
Like you can do all these amazing things, but what matters
at the end of the day, what truly matters is your
relationship with God, your relationship with the Savior.
(36:14):
That's what matters. And that's the that's the kind
of love that we're talking abouthere with the sort of the
prodigal son is that the father's love was so deep, was
so pure. It was so Christ like that it
didn't matter what his son did. Son probably could have murdered
someone. He probably would have forgiven
him. We don't know the details of
everything the son did. We know that he went and partied
(36:35):
and, you know, lived in the, in the world for a good time,
right? And the father's still there at
the end of the day, you know, I still love you, son, come here,
come here. Let's celebrate, celebrate your
home. Let's celebrate your back with
me because that's all we want. Is that like you mentioned,
right? He's just as happy his son
there, that he gets to be with his son again, that he gets to
(36:56):
celebrate, gets to live his every day by day by day with his
son once again. Give him that love, show him
that love, show him the faith, show him God and just be with
him every single day. And I imagine that's how God
felt when Jesus finally came back from earth, you know, after
he died on the cross, just how happy he was to have his Son
(37:19):
back with him. Yeah, there is this teenager
couple of months back that he had been going through the
foster system and so there's a lot of hardship that he was
navigating in life. And one day he decided to run
away and became. I mean, it just dominated the
news. And to the parents, good
(37:39):
Christian parents that just, their hearts were broken and
they're just, we just want, we just want you to come back home
and say, you know, national search and, you know, they
eventually we're able. And it took a maybe a week or it
was too long of a time for parents longing for their kid to
return. But they, they found him.
(38:00):
They were able to go and get himhome.
And, you know, they knew that his decision to run away was a
very hard, painful, destructive one for him, for them, for
others. I, I don't know what else, what
other decisions he made, but he probably made other decisions in
the midst of that. But what drove them ultimately
(38:23):
and why they were able to receive him with love is because
they recognize that he was lost.He functionally lost, but the
life he had fallen into, of leaving the safety of home and
running off without any resources, they knew was one
that would never sustain him andthat would leave him broken and
(38:46):
defeated. And they longed for him to be
found. And this is what the father says
of the prodigal son. When the older son is so mad.
Why are you celebrating him whenhe did all these bad things?
It's he's like, don't you understand?
Like he was lost like he had, hehad fallen into a reality that
was going to destroy him. This kid who is your brother was
(39:10):
facing destruction and he has been saved from he was lost and
now he's found. He was blind, but now he sees.
And so the father is inviting the son now to a deeper
understanding of what love and relationship is.
Because here's the thing, somebody could be listening to
us and really struggle because they're like, what?
But are you giving a pass? Like, are you just saying if
somebody does the worst things, you're just going to brush it
(39:31):
aside? And that's not what we're
saying. What we're saying is when we
struggled to accept this, it's because we are actually limiting
our understanding of relationship and love.
Love isn't just like sweeping things away.
Love is actually a profoundly deep reality that we have
(39:52):
muddied with other connotations and interpretation.
We will say we love God, and then we'll say we love pizza and
think it means the same thing. Love of pizza is not the same as
what God means when he says He loves us and you know the
Father. Was well aware of the
unfortunate ramifications of hisson's decision.
(40:13):
The father experienced pain. I mean, however long the son was
gone, he carried lament in the depth of his heart every day
when he would look down the road, hoping maybe not today but
maybe tomorrow, like he carried the depth of that sorrow.
You know these, it's not like we're just brushing things
(40:34):
aside. And yet there are passages like
as far as the East is from the West.
Somehow God's love carries an awareness of the consequences of
our destructive choices and a willingness to still accept, to
still receive, to still embrace.And honestly, like, if we ever
(40:55):
get to a point where we think wegrasp that we we need to do a
heart check because I think it'sgoing to take us the entirety of
our lives to scratch the surface.
And it's not until we're in eternity and are actually face
to face. Like what is it possible?
It says now we see in a mirror dimly, but then we will see
clearly face to face. I don't think we will ever
(41:17):
comprehend love until we are fully in the presence of love,
of capital L love. And so in the meantime, we have
to live as though what Scripturesays about love is true.
We have to live as though the invitations Scripture gives are
good ones to receive. So when scripture calls us to
love God, let's strive to do so.Scripture calls us to love
(41:41):
others. Let's strive to do so.
And as Scripture calls us to love our enemies, which makes no
logical sense even if we can make a little pathway there.
But there comes a point at whichit is a not just a foolish, but
a dangerous thing. We choose to believe that
there's something we don't understand about love.
That is why this is worth doing.And so with our kids, it's
(42:03):
easier to do sometimes because they are ours.
But we can use our process of learning to love our kids,
especially when they frustrate us, or they annoy us or they
don't listen to us. Or we can use that to then
implement that same type of lovein other relationships.
(42:24):
Because the love we have for ourchildren is but a glimpse of the
love God has for us, but is alsoa love that can extend beyond
our kids into our everyday livesto our neighbors.
Absolutely. And it can be hard to love your
kids when kids are being kids and do everything kids do.
And we have to, we do have to check ourselves, but that,
(42:44):
that's such an important messagehere, especially as we get
towards the end of our, our, ourconversation here, that message
of love is so, so important, right?
Like, I feel like a lot of Christian churches like mine,
especially, I don't know why I go to a Calvary Chapel and we
have some really, really good, good preachers and some good
pastors and really good staff overall, right.
(43:05):
But for some reason there's this, there's just this thing
against Mormon. I don't know if all different
parts of Christianity feels to against Mormon, but there's not
like a, it's not like a hatred, but there's just like like a
targeting. And I used to be Mormon and I'm
like, you know, it's not really that it's like like it's bad,
like it's pretty much a cult andstuff.
But like you don't got to like angle all this stuff this way
(43:28):
kind of thing. And I remember one time there
was a missionary that came in and talked to the Amana kids.
It was last two years, not this school year that we're currently
in, but last school year and he came in and talked to the kid
and I remember him specifically saying something about Mormon.
And just like the way he was saying it, it was just like next
week I'm going to be teaching a little bit about love, right?
(43:50):
Because that love is what's so important.
And that's the point here, right?
That love, if you want to, you know, help anyone feel God,
learn about God or anything likethat, any part of God, you got
to help him feel love hurt firstand foremost, and you got to
help them feel more comfortable and see like, oh God, God loves
me through this person that I can feel God's love through this
(44:11):
person. And that's the message we need
to be able to communicate more than almost any other message is
that love, that pure, pure agapelove for for others and how how
strong that feels towards that. Because God is love, right?
Everything he does, he does out of love, sent his son to die for
it out of love. He forgives us every single
(44:33):
thing we do out of love. He picks us up when we fall out
of love. You know, sent like I said, sent
his son. He sent all the apostles.
He let Paul, he let Paul live this life that Paul did in the
Bible out of love, right? Every single letter Paul wrote
to every single person, every single group of people in the
Bible without a love, every single warning, every single
(44:54):
thing in the Bible without a love, every single thing,
There's a common message of lovejust because God loved us, God
loved us. So he sent his son.
You know the word, the word was God.
The word is God. And what is God?
God is love, right? So the word is love.
It's all love. And so that's just such an
important, important thing to take away here, right?
In our hardest moment, when it can be so hard to love our
children, when they're just doing all the things that kids
(45:17):
do to frustrate us, annoy us, right?
Find that love. It's the pure love.
That's the pure love of Christ, right?
We find that love beyond and go deeply around us.
We love our enemies to share that love with people.
And then that's when people start to look at us like, you
know what, let me go talk to this this tall dude a little bit
more over here because he's just, he's always just so nice.
He's always so kind. He's always so like giving and
(45:40):
just so great. And I just want to talk to him
because people will get curious,right?
The more you love them, the moreyou show them love, they will
look at you and be like, what the heck, What is up with this
person? So like loving and kind all the
time kind of thing. Yeah, Jesus says, you know, they
will know you are my followers by your love.
Like that is the indicator. That's that's how people know
(46:03):
that you are actually following Jesus.
Or if they don't know who Jesus is that there's something
special because love is actuallykind of unnatural.
Like what true love is is unnatural because what we tend
to always devolve back to as a love of self, a self
preservation and true love agapelove is a sacrificial love.
(46:24):
It's a love that doesn't prioritize self.
And here's the good news for anyone listening, that's like, I
hear you, but this is really hard for me or what this person
did. I, I, I can't get past it or I
want to love my kids, but I am just at the end of myself.
And the good news is what we talked about earlier is that
(46:45):
we're not saying we have to orchestrate love.
We have to create love. We have to, we have to build it
from our own understanding, capacity and desire because all
those things are going to fall short.
Those, all those things are limited.
Now what scripture invites us tois to allow the Spirit to love
through US. There's passage, and I think it
might be in one of John's letters, it says we love because
(47:09):
God first loved us. So our ability to love is not
because of us, it is because of God.
Which means in the moments whereit is the hardest for us to love
good news, it's never hard for God to love.
And so all we have to do is allow him to love through us, to
die to our own desires, to be unloving and to say, I do not
(47:31):
want to show love right now. So God love through me, Holy
Spirit love through me. Which means we can love our
enemies. We can love when we have no
strength. We can love our kids when they
they are just at that stubborn age.
We can love not because of us, but because of God's love.
Well, that is a great message tolead us into the Dad zone.
(47:55):
You may not feel a lot of love into into that in the Dad zone
here, Paul. I do judge a little bit on a
couple of these questions, but that's OK.
I will lightly judge you today. I will judge you.
Just I I will judge you. First question here is so the
dad zone. I guess I'll preface this a
(48:16):
little bit more for the people that are new to the podcast,
barely listening to it. And it's like, come on, it's
been 200 something episode like you should.
I've listened to it by now. I know what the dad Zone is, but
if you don't, dad Zone is a really fun way to just kind of
bring down the podcast and just add some light hearted fun to
it. So first question here, does
pineapple go on pizza? I think this is the beautiful
thing about pizza is pizza can be what somebody wants a pizza
(48:40):
to be, right? And so I personally, I can eat a
pineapple and a pizza, but I don't, I don't necessarily want
it, but I'm not going to judge someone that does.
Because you know what? Because of my mom, sometimes
I'll put anchovy on pizza. Even worse.
And so who am I to judge? Pineapple seems more acceptable
than pepperoni. But I will say I have always
(49:01):
been a person who fruit has its proper place.
I do not like fruit in a salad. Like a fruit salad.
That's fine because it's all fruit.
Well, fruit. Yeah, right.
So, but yes. I don't.
I wouldn't say it belongs on pizza, but if someone wants it
on their pizza, I will not judgeyou.
I will though. I will though.
That's what Paul. And I are different.
I will. I'll take that up judgment.
(49:24):
I will take that up with my savory on my deathbed Heaven.
He's going to be like you judge a lot of people for liking
pineapple on their pizza. I mean, like, look, Lord, I'm
sorry. This was a hill I was willing to
die on and I'm here. Please forgive me.
Can. I can I.
Can I go? Can I?
Can I be like, no, you need no, I'm like, come on, it's just
(49:44):
pizza and I could just see. A giant face.
Palm of just going, Oh my gosh, just not the point.
It's like the point is that you judge so many people for
something so small and I might be like, hey, you know, do you
like it? Do you?
And then what Jesus is going to do, he's going to pop up a
pineapple pizza and he's going to say, eat this if you want in
and I'm going to have to eat thepineapple pizza.
(50:06):
That's what's going to happen. That's what 100% going to have.
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to have. To eat pineapple pizza.
I think I saw that in Revelationsomewhere.
So. I think so, right?
I think that's. I think that's biblical in the
new, the J in the JY version, yeah.
Don't, don't fight me. I don't want to.
Get struck right now, who are three people, dead or alive,
(50:29):
that you would love to have at adinner party?
I mean, you know there is. Always that default Christian
answer of Jesus, but I, I will say I think the chosen has been
helpful for people to like understand Jesus's humanity a
little more. I think Jesus would be a fun guy
to like talk with and engage with.
Man, all my answers, I'm going to be like the cheesy Christian
(50:52):
answers because I also feel likeI've got to go with my namesake,
Paul, say you, you have to, you have.
To like, there's it is, you know, I'd be.
In trouble if I didn't, but there are so many moments where
I just really resonate with how he has how he came to understand
Jesus and his invitation and youknow what I mean.
Let's stay on the Christian theme.
(51:13):
I was just reading from Oswald Chambers.
One thing I love about Oswald Chambers is he didn't set out to
write my utmost for his highs. If I'm understanding correctly,
I, I believe that it's a compilation of other things he's
written or teachings he gave. And so he wasn't setting out to
be this acclaimed author of thisdevotional like that wasn't, he
(51:33):
was just striving to shepherd others in his everyday life.
And I believe it was his wife who then gathered these things
up. And, and so I, I could see him
being someone who is authentic and humble.
And there's so many moments where what he wrote, I'm like,
that's, that's me today. Like we read the thing today.
I was like, Yep, I needed that today that I think it would just
be an enjoyable to sit with all those.
(51:55):
But what I will say is someone could say, man, that's just
going to be a boring Bible studydinner.
I feel like those guys would just be fun to be around, right?
And we'd have deep conversation.And that deep, deep conversation
will then lead into the life givingness of the rest of the
interaction. So that's my dinner party.
We're going to be having pineapple pizza.
I'm afraid to tell you, but it'sOK, I'm not.
(52:18):
I wasn't divided, so I'm not. Coming, Phil.
You were divided, so you know. What is your guilty pleasure
food? Huh.
Guilty pleasure. Food, it used to be Nutella and
then I kind of got away from eating a lot of sugar, But I
mean, I would take a a spoon to that.
Also, Oreos were one where I could just knock out a sleeve,
give me a glass of milk Oreos, Icould dip it in there till it's
(52:40):
almost soggy. And I don't know, I think right
now it's not a specific food, but there are times, you know,
you're not supposed to eat late at night.
But there are times where just maybe there's a lot going on in
life or I just feeling hungry and I'll go down.
I'm like, you know, I shouldn't be eating.
It's like 10, It's 11. But I want a pickle right now.
Or you know what, I want to makea little sandwich.
(53:00):
And so I'm going to, I'm going to say that the the late night
snack. Yeah, Yeah.
Always. Right now mine is an
uncrustable. I don't know why.
Something about a great uncrustable that does absolutely
hit the spot 10 out of 10 times.So good.
Even the Walmart version, like the great value version is
actually really good too. I think it's a great value too.
(53:21):
So. It is, it really is.
So, Paul, Very. Last question to wrap all the
things up here, what is one piece of advice, just one, that
you would give to a young dad? Let's just say he's 18 to 22
years old who's just starting out his fatherhood journey.
One piece of advice that you allowed?
Yep, Yep, there is this. Pressure that you got to get it
right and you got to know what you're doing and so someone in
(53:42):
that position can feel very unqualified and I'll equipped my
encouragement is there is a goodfather who has has and continues
to demonstrate what being a father looks like.
And it doesn't mean it's like that Oswald Chambers thing.
It doesn't mean then we say, well, I'm just going to imitate
that because we're going to fallshort.
(54:03):
But I will say to that to that young father, be encouraged
because God can love through you.
God can work through you. God can equip you to be a good
father not because of what you bring to the table, but what he
brings to the table. And so your invitation then is
to seek Him first and trust thatthen everything else will
(54:23):
follow. And when you inevitably mess up,
you inevitably miss an opportunity.
It's OK, because God's love extends even into that space.
Absolutely. And.
So for our listeners, if you guys want to learn more about
Paul, keep up with his podcast blog ministry.
You can head over to where did you see god.com?
(54:46):
That sound right, Paul? Yep, that sounds right.
WHERE in. Case you don't know how which
where we're talking about that'strue.
That's a good point, UE. REDI.
DIOU, you got to spell it out S EE god.com WHEREDIDYOUS EE
god.com like you definitely see someone putting in Word did
(55:11):
letter ucgod.com. I can definitely see that being
a thing. So I need to buy that domain
quick. You might want to.
And then just have it as like a redirect.
But anyways, anyways, to everyone listening, I hope you
that you enjoy this conversation.
Thank you for tuning in. Make sure to rate, review and
share the episode with the teller dad or parent who needs
to hear this. This is an absolutely great
(55:32):
episode. I love how we broke down the
parable of the prodigal son and just how in depth we went in
that one. I think that's important for
every single father to hear, so share it with a dad who needs to
hear it, who needs to hear that breakdown of the prodigal, that
story from both our perspectivesand kind of how we broke that
down. I thought that was really cool,
probably my favorite part of theshow overall.
But until next time, stay present, stay engaged, and keep
(55:54):
striving to be the best parent you can be.
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