September 8, 2025 • 40 mins
Welcome into the Young Dad Podcast — whether you’re outside grilling, mowing the lawn, changing dirty diapers, or maybe you got a moment to sit back and relax — thanks for being here and thanks for tuning in.
Today, I’m joined by Mike Coyne — founder of CureVine, his private practice focused on mental health and recovery treatment for individuals and families. He’s also a new girl dad — just welcomed a baby daughter — and brings a powerful story of recovery and navigating fatherhood across state lines.
Listeners — you can connect with Mike and learn more about his work at:
👉 CureVine on Instagram
👉 www.curevine.com
Visit the website for interactive activity guides and everything YDP- www.youngdadpod.com
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Interested in being a guest on the Young Dad Podcast? Reach out to Jey Young through PodMatch at this link: https://www.joinpodmatch.com/youngdad
Lastly,consider making a monetary donation to support the Pod, https://buymeacoffee.com/youngdadpod.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Mental Health and Fatherhood
03:52 The Journey of Recovery and Connection
07:40 Social Media as a Tool for Connection
11:23 Finding Sober Hobbies and Personal Connections
15:36 Identity and Validation in Sports and Life
18:22 Navigating Recovery and Fatherhood
19:40 The Impact of Addiction on Family Life
25:11 The Journey to Sobriety and Self-Discovery
26:06 The Path to Recovery and Future Aspirations
39:56 Outtro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
And welcome back to the Young Dad podcast.
Whether you're outside grilling,mowing the lawn, changing dirty
diapers, or maybe, just maybe, you got a moment to sit back,
relax, and listen to your favorite podcast.
Wherever you're at, whatever you're doing, whatever you're
cooking, thanks for being here and thanks for tuning in.
I'm your host, Jay. And today I'm joined by a
friend, friend of mine, Mike, founder of Kirvine, which is his
private practice focus on mentalhealth and recovery treatment
(00:33):
for individuals and families. And Mike has one heck of a story
and brings a ton to the table for the listeners today.
So I hope you're ready. Buckle up and it's going to be a
really good one today. From his experience of being a
New Girl dad, he just welcomed ababy daughter not very recently.
And also brings a powerful storyof recovery as well as
navigating fatherhood across state lines.
A situation that some of you maybe in and something that we
(00:55):
haven't actually talked about before on the podcast because
it's just something that I don'trun into a lot of people that
actually talk about it or open to talking about that situation.
So really good to have Mike today.
So listeners, make sure you graba juice box, grab a snack, and
let's jump in and welcome Mike to the show.
Mike, welcome. Thanks so much man, really
appreciate it. I'm glad we've had the are
having the chance to actually connect in this way now.
(01:15):
I'm looking forward to it. Absolutely.
No, I'm looking, I've been looking forward to it.
I'm glad to be able to talk to you and hear a little bit more
about your story and talk fatherhood with you as well as
recovery. I think those are two really
important things for for the audience to hear of a pretty
strong audience in both those domains, I would think.
So seems like that. We're yeah, no, I love the, I
love the recovery space. I think that we'll start there.
(01:37):
I really love the recovery space, especially the community
over on Instagram. It's just just supportive, you
know, it's just supportive. It's real.
It's, it's really authentic moreso than, you know, other like
support systems because it's allpeople who have been through it
in some aspect, way, shape or form, whether they've been
related to someone who went through recovery treatment or
(01:59):
whether they are the person thatwent through the recovery.
It's real life stuff, man. Like you can, you can talk to
someone in support groups and things like that.
And when it comes to the actual real life stuff like recovery
addictions, things like that, there's not you, you can relate
best if you've been through it on one of the sides of it.
So. Yeah, I mean, I'm inclined to
agree. That's my thoughts here.
No, I, I'm a kind of agree with you.
(02:21):
I, I don't, obviously there are therapists and other mental
health workers in this space whohaven't necessarily gone through
addiction directly, but there's usually some, it's been
proximate in their life in some way.
So like, I never want to discredit someone's ability, but
you know, to, to treat around addiction and recovery.
(02:42):
But I, I do also recognize that a lot of my clients, one of the
reasons that they choose to workwith me is because I have gone
through with myself, you know, and boy, have I have I gone
through it. I've done.
I've done a lot. It's it's, it's one of those
things as like, what if you can find someone that actually has
been through it? That's why it's like, if you're
(03:03):
looking for like a life coach orsomething, and I know this may
sound like I'm trashing on this demographic of coaches and
whatnot, quote UN quote coaches.I have my thoughts on quote UN
quote coaches. But when there's a woman who's a
coach for men, like that doesn'treally always add up.
Like a woman that's a life coachfor men.
It's like you don't, you don't get it.
(03:24):
You don't get what it's like to be a man kind of thing or vice
versa, like a man who's a coach for women.
Like it, it doesn't really work out that way.
And plus I have many other thoughts about coaches in
general, but that's not what we're here to talk about today.
But it's important to get to know someone who's been through
it and to understand like, hey, you've been through it.
I'm going through it. So you get me at a different
(03:44):
level than that other person's going to get me.
I'm one of those personally. Like when it comes to recovery
space, that's been a, a proxy ofthe addiction.
My biological mother was an addict, is an addict.
I don't know, I don't know whereshe's at.
I haven't talked to her in like 15 years.
But you know, I went to Alateen and things like that growing up
and it was really fun. I really enjoyed Alateen.
(04:05):
Alateen is awesome. I think it's a great program.
I think more teens, that's one of the ones I fully support and
stuff. So I've kind of been a proxy,
never gone through it myself, but been a proxy of it and seen
the effects of it on myself and families and things like that.
So, but regardless, Mike, tell us a little bit about your
journey here, because there's there's three parts of your
journey here that I want to talkabout.
(04:26):
I want to talk about your, your fatherhood journey when it
started. I know that when your son was
born and him growing up and yourrecovery go pretty closely hand
in hand, right? Or they're on a similar path.
And then all that has LED you totoday with your new with your
wife and your your big girl. Yeah, those timelines very much
(04:47):
overlap in terms of when I consider my actual recovery.
But I was kind of looking forward for you to go like on a
rant about coaches. Can we get that at some point
maybe? Yeah, I can give you my coach's
rant. I can give you my coach's rant.
So so you and I, we're both, we're both professionals in
mental health, right? We both went to, I mean, you're,
you have more licensure, things like that than I do.
(05:08):
I have, you know, my degrees, things like that, my experience
and whatnot. But we both work in this field
as professionals, right? Sure.
Yeah. But then you get to a a coach.
I feel like most coaches are a my size fits all approach and so
they have a not A1 size fits all, but it's a my size fits
everyone else's approach. And so not to say they're like
(05:31):
full of full of it, but they're very like narrow sided and
they're very like, like I said, like I'm saying here, my side
fits all approach And they beyond that, they don't really
know what they're talking about.They don't have a lot to offer.
They don't have a lot to bring to the table.
They're like, here's my approach, here's my size fits
all. If it doesn't work for you, then
you're the problem, not me kind of thing.
(05:52):
That's. Not realizing it's it's the
other way around. So that's how I feel about most
coaches. Yeah, I think it just in general
in life, if you're bringing that, it's kind of like a
megalomania aspect to it really.If you're replying, oh, this
worked for me, so will work for you, Are there coaches for whom
(06:13):
like their their scope is this is what worked for me.
So this is what I know, maybe itwill work for you.
I think that's like a better attitude where we run in the
problem is, like you said, if itdoesn't work, you're the
problem. That's the fallacy.
But that's that's where we run into a conflict in my opinion,
because obviously it it really goes against basically
(06:38):
everything I believe in. And it sounds like you as well
to try and apply just what worked for you to anyone else.
Certainly influences my work forsure, just like we talked about
in the beginning. Having gone through experiences
directly, it would be a shame ifthat didn't show up in my work
in some ways. But I never have the expectation
(06:58):
that this cookie cutter way is is the only way by any means
really. Just the object of how I feel,
frankly, I don't know if you mentioned this about my
background and it might not be super prevalent like on my
Instagram, which I'm not. This is the first social media
I've ever had, which is crazy, Iknow because Facebook came out
(07:19):
while I was in college, but I just never wanted to really
participate in that way. It became what I recognized as a
necessity when I started the private practice and I'm so glad
I did. Let me say that too, because
there were assumptions, you know, that I made about social
media where I was off base. And I feel ignorant, retrospect,
not recognizing that it's just like any other tool.
(07:42):
It's how you use it. And you can use it in a way that
is unhealthy for you. You can use it in a way that
people can use in a way that I find frankly annoying, or you
can use it to, you know, for your own purposes, which for me
is well, primarily to connect with other people and provide
some education, some resources to put out there for people to
(08:03):
think about that are interested.And also to give like a little
bit of a picture of my life. Simply because one of the
questions I get so often in messages like especially on
other platforms are it's it's like something to the effect of
how are you happy? How are you, How do you life?
(08:24):
How are you doing this? How are you not bored out of
your mind? You know, things like that.
So I like to show a little bit of enough of my life, A, because
I don't mind it, I'm an open book and I revel in that.
And B, because I like to show people that, you know, an
example of what it looks like tobe really happy and feel very
fulfilled within a life without drugs.
(08:45):
Absolutely, absolutely. And yeah, you're on your
Instagram. I don't know if I mentioned but
you have a few 3 little acronymsbehind your name that I hadn't
mentioned, CIP, FAS, ARC, FMC. And I love what you're saying
here about social media as well,how it's a tool.
It can be used as a tool, right?For a connection.
And that's how all social mediasare.
(09:06):
Instagram X Facebook, you name it, it can be used that way.
It's not how you use it and whatyou're using it for.
Somehow I, that eluded me, I don't know how be like you.
I've quickly found that myself plugged into a community of
people who were very obviously passionate and authentic about
their own experiences and, you know, the issues on which they
(09:29):
were working. And I just didn't anticipate
having that kind of utility. I didn't think I'd be sitting
down talking to someone, you know, like you where you're not
in the recovery field, you know,exactly or directly, but you're
very much with your podcast guests and everything very much
cover a slice of life that overlaps with a lot of my own
(09:50):
work. And my point is, I really just
didn't have the expectation to make those kind of connections
to collaborate with people on even like curriculum based stuff
that I use with clients. So that it's been such a
pleasure and a surprise to me. I'm sure you've heard the phrase
that connection is, you know, the opposite of addiction is
connection. You know, there's like a,
(10:12):
there's Ted talks and stuff and articles, some of which I've
written based around that as a model.
And I am a big believer in that connection is super important
for me personally. It's one of my absolute biggest
priority values, top tier values.
So it's, again, it's been a surprise to me and I'm really,
really grateful that I did take that opportunity to do something
(10:34):
I didn't necessarily really wantto, which is engaged in that
sphere and that I've really benefited from because I've met
some awesome, awesome people. No, it's, it's great.
Absolutely. I, I can agree with everything
you said here because the peopleI've met, people I've talked to,
people I've connected with just through the podcast and you
don't have a platform like this,even though it may be small, may
(10:54):
not get as many views as I hopedand dreamed of many, many, many
years ago when I first started it.
It's really cool to see this, the power of connection and how
that's kind of been the overarching theme of Young Dad
podcast, right? Is connection over like
perfection? Like these episodes aren't
perfect. I don't have one of those deep,
sultry, delicious radio voices or anything like that.
I have a speech impediment, things like that.
(11:16):
Trust me, people on YouTube liketo call out all the time.
It's fine. And it's it's just about the
connection. Like I've connected people.
I've connected a bunch of peopleto to new people, new new
resources, to new ideas, to new thoughts, to new to just new
things and to new stories and tonew people that they can relate
to. And yeah, they can find some
(11:36):
solace in and things like that. So it's really cool.
And like you're saying here, when it comes to recovery, it's
about connection, right? It's the opposite because you
have to have people who care about you.
You have to you have to find things that you connect to as an
individual. Like one of your story
highlights on your Instagram. And I think this is a great,
great thing to talk about here is one of your story highlights
is sober hobbies, right? Because those are the things
(11:56):
that you found that you connect to through the recovery, right?
And then for me, like that was for me growing up.
I just, I'm realizing it now, But for me, that connection was
to sports, right? That got me through, like the
connection to sports got me through life pretty much, yeah,
me through my childhood and intoadulthood and has really
(12:17):
continued that connection to where I connect with people all
the time, just through sport. But that keeps me, keeps me
going. And I found other ways to
connect with people now as well.But you know, between church,
between sports and Jesus, I think those two things really
are my main connectors to myself, to staying healthy, to
staying grounded, to staying focused.
At least it was growing up. Obviously it's change over time,
(12:38):
but that's the just so. Yeah, that's interesting.
I'm not, I don't think you mentioned this in my intro, but
we we've, we've talked about it just to chat.
Obviously my, my background, themajority of my professional life
I spent as a football coach. Football was my identity for the
(13:01):
vast majority of my life. I'm 40 now.
I got into recovery around 32. I've been clean for 7-7 years,
but prior to that, football was AI mean it what it really became
my identity when it became my profession, which was right out
(13:21):
of college. My first job was I'm, I'm from
Baltimore and knew that I alwayswanted to work in, in football
and my toward the end, if your senior year, you know, you're
scrambling to find that internship or job or what the
hell am I going to do with this,you know, undergrad degree, you
know that I just spent four years on and I had two
opportunities. One was with the Texans in
(13:42):
Houston and the other one was with the Ravens.
So obviously. You picked the Texans.
I picked the Ravens, being from Baltimore, and that was, that
was, you know, not an insignificant choice in terms of
the way it affects, affected my story in in many ways because it
put me back in the environment in which I grew up generally.
And yeah, everyone people are, you know, like in every town
(14:06):
with a football team, people arenuts about it and nuts about
that team. From a very young age, I felt a
lot of expectation to make it, you know, that I was going to be
the one to do this and do that. And that was like that first
little bit of validation that others really echoed for me and
that I really absorbed because it felt like positive
(14:28):
validation. And not for a second at the time
that I think there was anything negative about that, but about,
you know, coming back after a game and Oh my gosh, they had
you on TV so much during this game.
We saw you next to coach whomever, you know, Harbaugh and
like all the time, blah, blah, blah.
Like, I'm not going to lie, as a22 year old, 23 year old, that
(14:52):
was really cool for me and for my friends, if it was they ever
thought it was, I mean, awesome.You know, they we had one, only
one Super Bowl at that point, but still the Ravens are huge
and that's a huge football town.So everybody was just so, so
excited by that that it's almostbecame like all people saw about
me. The only thing that anyone
really wanted to talk or asked about what was about like, let
(15:15):
me hear what so and so's like what's Ray Lewis like what's so,
you know, things like that. And that's why is when I say
identity, I don't even necessarily mean just my own
personal sense of identity. I mean the sense of identity
that I think when we are less mature can feel like it's
(15:36):
ascribed from other people, if that makes sense.
No, it absolutely does. It's like our we want to have a
perception of ourselves, but then the perception of ourselves
can get quickly altered by how others are seeing us because
that's what essentially is like beating those like dopamine
hits, right? And then that kind of takes
over, takes over and it's like, oh, well, that's, that's who I
(15:58):
am now. Obviously I'm just the the
football guy to everybody. That's like where my value is
coming from. Especially as a man, you're
going to feed into those things to where what gives you value.
Yeah, I mean, you're so spot on.That is so spot on.
When you talk about, I mean neurologically in terms of like
the dopaminergic reward system, like very much engaged, right,
(16:20):
right with that rather directly.And yeah, it just becomes, it
becomes very easy when those things feel good.
I sort of a feeling we're going to be echoing some of these
philosophies in other areas. But when it feels that's good,
you move toward it. Those validations that we're
not, not just going on at that time, but really had been the
seeds for them had been planted since I was like probably as
(16:42):
young as 7 or 8 years old in terms of like expectation for me
to make it in some way, whether it was like in politics or later
on, you know, people thought more like sports and stuff.
It was an expectation. I really I felt that I very much
internalized and to feel like I had was meeting that again fed
both forms of identity for me, the ones that others described
(17:06):
and the rewards for myself, the things that validated me
personally. So how did that lead you?
Is that kind of, you mentioned planting the seeds here, Did
that plant the seeds more so or did those seeds start to prowl
as you got more into your 20s, more into this career and then
the addiction may have started? Those seeds that I mentioned
(17:27):
most certainly were planted in early childhood through, you
know, a variety of things. Just without going too far down
a rabbit hole, basically, I've, I've heard you speak with
different people who work in education and child development
and stuff. And so it's a, it's a topic you
know you're familiar with, obviously.
Yeah. I think a better way to probably
(17:48):
put it is did those seeds get watered as you were in this this
phase of life 2223 and they start to sprout?
Root that's a great way to say if that's what you mean.
Yeah, that's absolutely what happened.
That's absolutely what happened.And again that happened earlier
too. You know, people kind of fed
that for me throughout my teens and and stuff through my
(18:09):
participation in sports and alsojust like academic performance,
things like that and social, theway I showed up socially, those
things were that were kind of always validated for me and it
felt like that was that was where my definitely.
You're fine. So I had to find some creative
(22:28):
ways around managing this addiction.
Something that I often say to people is that more than the
drug use, I think the secret is what quote, UN quote messed me
up, which is if you've ever, if you've lived anything like that,
I think it's really, it's relatable.
Anybody who's had to live some such a core part of their life
in secret, I think will probablyrelate to that because it was
(22:52):
that addiction is a full time job in itself.
We all know how football coacheswork.
And then managing the secrecy around this addiction and trying
to keep it compartmentalized from everybody in my
professional life. And my then wife was, I mean, it
was extremely challenging, extremely stressful.
I had so many I that's when I really started to develop even
(23:14):
more anxiety over which I had very little control.
And I look back on it like, dude, obviously you weren't
living authentically at all. I mean, you know, you were
pretending, you were pretending.You were one person and part of
your life was totally different.And part of your life was being
lived in a way that is really inconsistent with the values
that, you know, you were the spouse.
(23:37):
And it's not tough for me to admit.
Now, I got to take full ownership for that, obviously.
But it was something that was tough to reconcile because no
one wants to, I think maybe wantto feel like that part of my
accomplice is how are my actionsaligned with my values?
That that is just such a huge part of what guides my thinking
(24:00):
now. So it's hard for me to look back
even, you know, 10 years ago, eight years ago, and see someone
who didn't think that way or wasable to live life a life so
inauthentically when now radicaltransparency, as I call it, is
such a core part of my identity and my personality.
So yeah, in order to keep that secret, I had to do some, you
(24:23):
know, crazy stuff to manage by addiction.
Through that I got sleuthie on the Internet.
We'll leave that there. I I'm huge into plants.
I don't know, I mean, I'm sure that shows up on my Instagram a
little bit. I try not to over share about
it, but I love plants. I love pottery.
So they go hand in hand. Those are talk about sober
(24:44):
hobbies. Those are like things that I've
just, you know, really indulged.I loved in my life even before
recovery. However, a little wrinkle, the
complicating wrinkle in that is at one point I had the brilliant
idea to begin growing poppies. And it's not funny, but that's
what I do, is laugh at stuff. It's fun it.
(25:05):
It's ironic. It's the irony behind it.
Everything in hindsight, right? You're like, oh man, you saying
that? It's just like I'm hearing your
story and I'm like when an addict grows his own supply.
You know what? And it's a really, I'm glad to
have had that experience becauseit's an, it's an interesting
test case because so many peoplewhom I meet are under the false
(25:26):
impression that if money were never a factor, supply was never
a factor. If I didn't have to worry about
that at all, then I could just stay, keep this going my entire
life. I'm living proof that that is
not the case, or at least not for me, because I did have the
access that I needed. And yet my mental health, my
(25:47):
neurobiological health still deteriorated in a way that is
consistent with long term opioiduse.
And on top of that, on a psychological level, it
reinforced many things about theaddiction.
It normalized it for me. It romanticized it for me
because it tied into something about which I already had
passion. I'm sure there was a voice in my
(26:08):
brain that was like, I don't know, look how smart I am.
I can grow a plant and I get what I need from it through a
couple processes. And you know, like, it really
fed into a ugly part of me, really a part of which I'm not,
I'm not proud, but was was definitely a part of what got me
here. Motherhood kind of or how did
(26:30):
becoming a dad when you're, whenyour son was born, how did that
change things? This the, you said you've been
sober for eight years. As far as I know, he's, he's
about that age, so 7. So those two timelines are, are
pretty, pretty close to overlapping with your, your
sobriety and getting clean and getting into now the field that
(26:51):
you're working in now. So how did that really I guess
change things or set you on the better path?
Yeah, it's huge. You know, it is woven into that
like adna strand, like a Helix. I mean, it is there there's no
way to separate them. My ex-wife and I actually try,
we're trying for a couple years to get pregnant.
(27:14):
She had some trouble with that. So we were living in Ohio for I
was coaching out there and she was still coming back to
Maryland because she was she worked for Johns Hopkins and she
was, you know, receiving like fertility treatment and stuff
there. Long story short, operation, she
had an operation that after thatwe got pregnant within three
(27:36):
weeks. So it just happened really fast.
And you know, that's its own topic as far as people that
trying to get pregnant and people who struggle with that is
something that really educated me to a whole new world of pain
that people go through and was really tough for me to watch,
even for my, you know, for my ex-wife, like, yeah, it was, it
(27:57):
was tough to see. It was really, really hard for
her and but we get we get pregnant at this point.
So here's the timeline. I'm in Ohio.
I've reached the end. I've really I've reached the
point where my mental health hasdeteriorated so much.
I'm having serious panic attackscrippling.
That's the only way I can describe them as panic attacks.
(28:17):
And when I say that it's not necessarily what people picture
on TV, but it was absolutely arresting me and arresting my
functionality. I began to use what's known as
like research chemical RC benzodiazepines because you can
get them legally for my anxiety and again just escalated things
to a really bad point I made. And I hate saying this because
(28:41):
this is literally something thatagainst which I advise people
probably five times a day. But I made the idiotic decision
to try and detox myself at home because that's where I was.
I was not at the point where I could admit or accept help.
You know, I was still trying to at that point.
(29:01):
My ex-wife knew. She knew the last two years of
my active addiction, like about the opium and etcetera.
But I still was able to keep it compartmentalized.
Feel like that's pretty common for men, is it?
Not? Like when it comes to men in
addiction, you don't, you'll like, I'll just do it myself.
I'll do it myself. I'll detox myself, I'll do this
myself. I don't need nobody.
I don't want nobody. Like I don't want to accept it
(29:22):
from anybody. Is that more common with men
than women? You would say Yeah, Don your
head. I mean, that's a great question
to separate it, to think about it on a gender basis.
I would say probably, and this is really speculative and just
based on my experience, but I think probably women are often a
little bit more open to treatment initially than than
(29:44):
men are. However, in my experience,
especially around with opioids in particular, people want
people. Almost everyone goes through
several rounds of trying to do it themselves before they ever
get formal treatment or help. And some people are literally
are stuck in a perpetual cycle of, can, you know, convincing
(30:07):
themselves that they're this is going to be how they're able to,
to detox themselves. I have this tool now, whether
it's a chemical tool or something, you know, whatever
that's going to mitigate withdraw.
That's another huge illusion that I would like to disabuse
people on people who don't necessarily come from a world of
addiction. And that's that if I get through
(30:29):
withdrawal, I'm using air quotesfor anybody that's saying if I I
get through withdrawal, I'm fine.
I've made it. That is what stands between me
and a new life and functionality.
My inability to go through that torturous sickness that we all
know of as as opioid withdrawal,well paid to break it to people.
(30:51):
But that is not the case. That is not where the work ends,
that is very much where the workbegins.
And like I said, it just keeps people in a set and stuck in
that cycle trying to do it themselves.
I was no different and I'm trying to detox myself at home.
Long story short, I wake up in my my in our bedroom during the
(31:13):
day. It's around noon and I wake up
to a bunch of paramedics around me having had a grand Mal
seizure which lasted a little over 5 minutes.
And obviously you know that you know you're not aware after in a
post echal state you have don't have a memory of it.
If I do actually remember talking to the paramedics and
because I was trying to convincethem guys I did not just have a
(31:35):
seizure, trust me like I'm sick and I'm just sitting here
watching Breaking Bad and blah blah blah like but I did not I
can remember one of them saying to my ex-wife like Are you sure?
Because people don't usually talk like the right after
they've come out of a seizure, which again, I think is probably
just part of my years of practice, you know?
(31:56):
Yeah, you're used to, you're used to faking in and putting up
a story. And you had that ready, right?
That was just your subconscious,right?
That was your reality. It really is.
In your head. Oh and then I remember my
ex-wife saying Mike or Michael look at our bed we had all white
bedding and it was covered in blood.
Covered in blood because I had bitten my cheeks so, so
(32:16):
severely. And at that point I said, OK,
yeah, guys, I, I guess I had a seizure.
It was just really, I remember so hard to understand and
believe in that moment, but thatwas the impetus for me that that
broke what I call like the bubble, which is a good thing,
you know, that that bubble, thatinsulation that we as addicts
(32:37):
worked so hard to maintain because it's we're, we're
protecting our addiction. And why do we do that?
Because our addiction is what webecome conditioned to believe as
our main source of safety and security.
So like anything, we're going totake good care of that.
And that my my ex-wife wisely brought my mom, sister and dad
(32:58):
into the picture. My mom and sister are both
friends, so you know, they they work in the medical field.
And I'll never forget the next day, I I'm in Ohio, they're in
Baltimore, my mom's in Colorado.And the next day I opened my
front door there on my porch andI'm still trying to figure out
what's going on. Like, what are you guys doing
(33:20):
here? And they're like, come with us,
Just come back home for a littlebit, you know, as I can't do
that. And then I realized my wife has
my stuff packed. My ex-wife has my things packed
ready to go. And, and I went back there and
the next day they had brought, it brought in an interventionist
(33:42):
like what I do, some of now who had investigated treatment
options and everything for me. And I said yes, I went through
30 days of treatment fully. And I left there fully believing
that I had solved my issue of dependence, that I was not an
addict, quote UN quote, an addict, that this was an issue
of dependence, that I've had a monkey on my back for this many
(34:04):
years and now I'm liberated fromit.
And I say this like laughingly, because of the obvious
ignorance, you know, and becauseit's something I hear and see
every day now and for which I can't fault people because I had
the same delusion. So I went several months of not
not doing anything in terms of self improvement or working any
kind of program or anything. I started a business that was
(34:27):
related to like medical referraland that gave me a lot of access
to doctors and prescribers. And Long story short, I ended up
using again. And as addiction does, part of
addictions nature is that it's progressive and I was a really
good testament to that and that it deteriorated much more
(34:49):
quickly for me that time, which is something I'm I'm grateful.
That makes me grateful. My wife during the portion in
which I was sober, like, you know, clean, that's when she had
the surgery and got pregnant. So I have this new business.
I now have my first child on theway.
And I think it's impossible or it's, you know, it's ignorant
(35:11):
not to recognize that those things played a role in bringing
back some of those triggers thatled to my addiction in the 1st
place. Those things like whatever, you
know what I call NGE messages, not good enough inner critic
messages, you know, not enough money, not enough, all these
(35:32):
things not enough. And mind you, I'm out of, I'm
not working in football anymore.So there's like we talked about
identity starting out huge change there for me again that I
just did not pay enough attention to through her
pregnancy. I just remember getting so I was
so crazy with the working Jag. I was so insane.
(35:53):
I mean like I was not coming home for nights and not because
I was having any other romantic entanglements.
I was just working obsessed. It became I am obsessed with
impulsive. I do obsessed with pulse
disorder. So it really manifested itself
there and when the drugs became a factor, it just spiraled, you
know, so towards the end of my wife's pregnant, my ex wife's
(36:16):
pregnant, I knew I don't want tobe on anything, you know, when
he was born. So I tried to get myself off of
it. It's funny that people, in my
experience, for me at least, don't realize the drug use is
going on when you're on IT. People noticed something was
wrong when I was off of it, you know, that that's when things
(36:37):
became more apparent to them because I wasn't myself, you
know, I wasn't energetic and social and all these different
things that the drugs allowed me, quote UN quote, to be, you
know, in a superficial way. So my son was born and I
frankly, and this is a really hard thing to say without being,
(36:59):
you know, emotional, becoming emotional and that's it.
You know, I was affected when hewas born.
I was both in withdrawal and I was also taking Valium to try
and like help with that. That's a wound, man.
Like that's a really big wound that I've had to exercise.
I've had to work on a lot and had to exercise a lot of grace
(37:21):
toward myself, you know, and self forgiveness.
But it was, it's one of the hardest things, been one of the
hardest things to to really accept and move on from.
Well, Mike, that will have to come in.
I would love to hear more of that story and talk more about
that. But I think the story that you
shared today, not even think I know the story that you shared
today, really highlights that recovery is possible right
(37:43):
through, through work, through hard work, determination,
connection, love, and really just having the right
motivation, you know, realizing like I need help in accepting
that help that recovery is possible.
And we'll have to follow this upin a Part 2 because we didn't
even get into the actual recovery journey and what not,
but you're good. But we know it's possible,
(38:03):
right? The story now, I mean, look at
you now, private practice, recovery, fatherhood, Part 2.
You know, a new life and you knew a new, new life over these
last few years really got got you to where you are now and to
where you're going. So it's a great story to show
like, look, Mike, you were in the thick of it.
You were in the trenches and youknow that that story is made-up
(38:24):
who you are and who you are today and helped you helped you
become who you are. And so we'll have to finish this
up in a Part 2, but I, we got toget the kids off to summer camp
and things like that. Dad stuff, we got to go do dad
and I got to work and stuff today too, I guess.
But Mike, thank you so much today for sharing part of your
story. And we're going to have to do
(38:44):
this again to, to get the rest of it because I know the
recovery journey, the comeback is always sweeter than the
downfall. So we're going to get to that
recovery. We're going to get to that
second-half. We're going to get to that, that
comeback, because those comebackstories are what where the
inspiration lies. But I think for now, just people
seeing you talking here and you talk about it, hearing the the
way you talk about it, the way that you've recovered, the way
that you're open about it reallyshows a lot of recovery, self
(39:06):
work, self love, and a lot of grace given towards yourself
that you probably felt you didn't deserve and don't deserve
on a regular basis. But grace is something that's
really given even when we feel ourselves or the other person
doesn't deserve it. And so with that to our
listeners, if you want to check out Mike and get to know him
more, you can go and visit him on Instagram.
His handle is. Is it just at Curevine CURVINE?
(39:29):
At cure vice CUREVINE. Yep, Cure vine.
No punctuation or anything. That's my website as well.
That's that's the name of the private practice.
Perfect, we'll link that together.
We'll throw this together and put that in the show notes for
you guys to to check out. So until next time, stay well,
stay healthy, stay hydrated, go and go eat that BBQ, eat, go
(39:49):
smell that fresh cut grass, go hit a dad stance and admire your
hard work. So next time we'll see you right
here on the Young Dad Podcast. Thanks so much, Jay.
Looking for.
And welcome back to the Young Dad podcast.
Whether you're outside grilling,mowing the lawn, changing dirty
diapers, or maybe, just maybe, you got a moment to sit back,
relax, and listen to your favorite podcast.
Wherever you're at, whatever you're doing, whatever you're
cooking, thanks for being here and thanks for tuning in.
I'm your host, Jay. And today I'm joined by a
friend, friend of mine, Mike, founder of Kirvine, which is his
private practice focus on mentalhealth and recovery treatment
(00:33):
for individuals and families. And Mike has one heck of a story
and brings a ton to the table for the listeners today.
So I hope you're ready. Buckle up and it's going to be a
really good one today. From his experience of being a
New Girl dad, he just welcomed ababy daughter not very recently.
And also brings a powerful storyof recovery as well as
navigating fatherhood across state lines.
A situation that some of you maybe in and something that we
(00:55):
haven't actually talked about before on the podcast because
it's just something that I don'trun into a lot of people that
actually talk about it or open to talking about that situation.
So really good to have Mike today.
So listeners, make sure you graba juice box, grab a snack, and
let's jump in and welcome Mike to the show.
Mike, welcome. Thanks so much man, really
appreciate it. I'm glad we've had the are
having the chance to actually connect in this way now.
(01:15):
I'm looking forward to it. Absolutely.
No, I'm looking, I've been looking forward to it.
I'm glad to be able to talk to you and hear a little bit more
about your story and talk fatherhood with you as well as
recovery. I think those are two really
important things for for the audience to hear of a pretty
strong audience in both those domains, I would think.
So seems like that. We're yeah, no, I love the, I
love the recovery space. I think that we'll start there.
(01:37):
I really love the recovery space, especially the community
over on Instagram. It's just just supportive, you
know, it's just supportive. It's real.
It's, it's really authentic moreso than, you know, other like
support systems because it's allpeople who have been through it
in some aspect, way, shape or form, whether they've been
related to someone who went through recovery treatment or
(01:59):
whether they are the person thatwent through the recovery.
It's real life stuff, man. Like you can, you can talk to
someone in support groups and things like that.
And when it comes to the actual real life stuff like recovery
addictions, things like that, there's not you, you can relate
best if you've been through it on one of the sides of it.
So. Yeah, I mean, I'm inclined to
agree. That's my thoughts here.
No, I, I'm a kind of agree with you.
(02:21):
I, I don't, obviously there are therapists and other mental
health workers in this space whohaven't necessarily gone through
addiction directly, but there's usually some, it's been
proximate in their life in some way.
So like, I never want to discredit someone's ability, but
you know, to, to treat around addiction and recovery.
(02:42):
But I, I do also recognize that a lot of my clients, one of the
reasons that they choose to workwith me is because I have gone
through with myself, you know, and boy, have I have I gone
through it. I've done.
I've done a lot. It's it's, it's one of those
things as like, what if you can find someone that actually has
been through it? That's why it's like, if you're
(03:03):
looking for like a life coach orsomething, and I know this may
sound like I'm trashing on this demographic of coaches and
whatnot, quote UN quote coaches.I have my thoughts on quote UN
quote coaches. But when there's a woman who's a
coach for men, like that doesn'treally always add up.
Like a woman that's a life coachfor men.
It's like you don't, you don't get it.
(03:24):
You don't get what it's like to be a man kind of thing or vice
versa, like a man who's a coach for women.
Like it, it doesn't really work out that way.
And plus I have many other thoughts about coaches in
general, but that's not what we're here to talk about today.
But it's important to get to know someone who's been through
it and to understand like, hey, you've been through it.
I'm going through it. So you get me at a different
(03:44):
level than that other person's going to get me.
I'm one of those personally. Like when it comes to recovery
space, that's been a, a proxy ofthe addiction.
My biological mother was an addict, is an addict.
I don't know, I don't know whereshe's at.
I haven't talked to her in like 15 years.
But you know, I went to Alateen and things like that growing up
and it was really fun. I really enjoyed Alateen.
(04:05):
Alateen is awesome. I think it's a great program.
I think more teens, that's one of the ones I fully support and
stuff. So I've kind of been a proxy,
never gone through it myself, but been a proxy of it and seen
the effects of it on myself and families and things like that.
So, but regardless, Mike, tell us a little bit about your
journey here, because there's there's three parts of your
journey here that I want to talkabout.
(04:26):
I want to talk about your, your fatherhood journey when it
started. I know that when your son was
born and him growing up and yourrecovery go pretty closely hand
in hand, right? Or they're on a similar path.
And then all that has LED you totoday with your new with your
wife and your your big girl. Yeah, those timelines very much
(04:47):
overlap in terms of when I consider my actual recovery.
But I was kind of looking forward for you to go like on a
rant about coaches. Can we get that at some point
maybe? Yeah, I can give you my coach's
rant. I can give you my coach's rant.
So so you and I, we're both, we're both professionals in
mental health, right? We both went to, I mean, you're,
you have more licensure, things like that than I do.
(05:08):
I have, you know, my degrees, things like that, my experience
and whatnot. But we both work in this field
as professionals, right? Sure.
Yeah. But then you get to a a coach.
I feel like most coaches are a my size fits all approach and so
they have a not A1 size fits all, but it's a my size fits
everyone else's approach. And so not to say they're like
(05:31):
full of full of it, but they're very like narrow sided and
they're very like, like I said, like I'm saying here, my side
fits all approach And they beyond that, they don't really
know what they're talking about.They don't have a lot to offer.
They don't have a lot to bring to the table.
They're like, here's my approach, here's my size fits
all. If it doesn't work for you, then
you're the problem, not me kind of thing.
(05:52):
That's. Not realizing it's it's the
other way around. So that's how I feel about most
coaches. Yeah, I think it just in general
in life, if you're bringing that, it's kind of like a
megalomania aspect to it really.If you're replying, oh, this
worked for me, so will work for you, Are there coaches for whom
(06:13):
like their their scope is this is what worked for me.
So this is what I know, maybe itwill work for you.
I think that's like a better attitude where we run in the
problem is, like you said, if itdoesn't work, you're the
problem. That's the fallacy.
But that's that's where we run into a conflict in my opinion,
because obviously it it really goes against basically
(06:38):
everything I believe in. And it sounds like you as well
to try and apply just what worked for you to anyone else.
Certainly influences my work forsure, just like we talked about
in the beginning. Having gone through experiences
directly, it would be a shame ifthat didn't show up in my work
in some ways. But I never have the expectation
(06:58):
that this cookie cutter way is is the only way by any means
really. Just the object of how I feel,
frankly, I don't know if you mentioned this about my
background and it might not be super prevalent like on my
Instagram, which I'm not. This is the first social media
I've ever had, which is crazy, Iknow because Facebook came out
(07:19):
while I was in college, but I just never wanted to really
participate in that way. It became what I recognized as a
necessity when I started the private practice and I'm so glad
I did. Let me say that too, because
there were assumptions, you know, that I made about social
media where I was off base. And I feel ignorant, retrospect,
not recognizing that it's just like any other tool.
(07:42):
It's how you use it. And you can use it in a way that
is unhealthy for you. You can use it in a way that
people can use in a way that I find frankly annoying, or you
can use it to, you know, for your own purposes, which for me
is well, primarily to connect with other people and provide
some education, some resources to put out there for people to
(08:03):
think about that are interested.And also to give like a little
bit of a picture of my life. Simply because one of the
questions I get so often in messages like especially on
other platforms are it's it's like something to the effect of
how are you happy? How are you, How do you life?
(08:24):
How are you doing this? How are you not bored out of
your mind? You know, things like that.
So I like to show a little bit of enough of my life, A, because
I don't mind it, I'm an open book and I revel in that.
And B, because I like to show people that, you know, an
example of what it looks like tobe really happy and feel very
fulfilled within a life without drugs.
(08:45):
Absolutely, absolutely. And yeah, you're on your
Instagram. I don't know if I mentioned but
you have a few 3 little acronymsbehind your name that I hadn't
mentioned, CIP, FAS, ARC, FMC. And I love what you're saying
here about social media as well,how it's a tool.
It can be used as a tool, right?For a connection.
And that's how all social mediasare.
(09:06):
Instagram X Facebook, you name it, it can be used that way.
It's not how you use it and whatyou're using it for.
Somehow I, that eluded me, I don't know how be like you.
I've quickly found that myself plugged into a community of
people who were very obviously passionate and authentic about
their own experiences and, you know, the issues on which they
(09:29):
were working. And I just didn't anticipate
having that kind of utility. I didn't think I'd be sitting
down talking to someone, you know, like you where you're not
in the recovery field, you know,exactly or directly, but you're
very much with your podcast guests and everything very much
cover a slice of life that overlaps with a lot of my own
(09:50):
work. And my point is, I really just
didn't have the expectation to make those kind of connections
to collaborate with people on even like curriculum based stuff
that I use with clients. So that it's been such a
pleasure and a surprise to me. I'm sure you've heard the phrase
that connection is, you know, the opposite of addiction is
connection. You know, there's like a,
(10:12):
there's Ted talks and stuff and articles, some of which I've
written based around that as a model.
And I am a big believer in that connection is super important
for me personally. It's one of my absolute biggest
priority values, top tier values.
So it's, again, it's been a surprise to me and I'm really,
really grateful that I did take that opportunity to do something
(10:34):
I didn't necessarily really wantto, which is engaged in that
sphere and that I've really benefited from because I've met
some awesome, awesome people. No, it's, it's great.
Absolutely. I, I can agree with everything
you said here because the peopleI've met, people I've talked to,
people I've connected with just through the podcast and you
don't have a platform like this,even though it may be small, may
(10:54):
not get as many views as I hopedand dreamed of many, many, many
years ago when I first started it.
It's really cool to see this, the power of connection and how
that's kind of been the overarching theme of Young Dad
podcast, right? Is connection over like
perfection? Like these episodes aren't
perfect. I don't have one of those deep,
sultry, delicious radio voices or anything like that.
I have a speech impediment, things like that.
(11:16):
Trust me, people on YouTube liketo call out all the time.
It's fine. And it's it's just about the
connection. Like I've connected people.
I've connected a bunch of peopleto to new people, new new
resources, to new ideas, to new thoughts, to new to just new
things and to new stories and tonew people that they can relate
to. And yeah, they can find some
(11:36):
solace in and things like that. So it's really cool.
And like you're saying here, when it comes to recovery, it's
about connection, right? It's the opposite because you
have to have people who care about you.
You have to you have to find things that you connect to as an
individual. Like one of your story
highlights on your Instagram. And I think this is a great,
great thing to talk about here is one of your story highlights
is sober hobbies, right? Because those are the things
(11:56):
that you found that you connect to through the recovery, right?
And then for me, like that was for me growing up.
I just, I'm realizing it now, But for me, that connection was
to sports, right? That got me through, like the
connection to sports got me through life pretty much, yeah,
me through my childhood and intoadulthood and has really
(12:17):
continued that connection to where I connect with people all
the time, just through sport. But that keeps me, keeps me
going. And I found other ways to
connect with people now as well.But you know, between church,
between sports and Jesus, I think those two things really
are my main connectors to myself, to staying healthy, to
staying grounded, to staying focused.
At least it was growing up. Obviously it's change over time,
(12:38):
but that's the just so. Yeah, that's interesting.
I'm not, I don't think you mentioned this in my intro, but
we we've, we've talked about it just to chat.
Obviously my, my background, themajority of my professional life
I spent as a football coach. Football was my identity for the
(13:01):
vast majority of my life. I'm 40 now.
I got into recovery around 32. I've been clean for 7-7 years,
but prior to that, football was AI mean it what it really became
my identity when it became my profession, which was right out
(13:21):
of college. My first job was I'm, I'm from
Baltimore and knew that I alwayswanted to work in, in football
and my toward the end, if your senior year, you know, you're
scrambling to find that internship or job or what the
hell am I going to do with this,you know, undergrad degree, you
know that I just spent four years on and I had two
opportunities. One was with the Texans in
(13:42):
Houston and the other one was with the Ravens.
So obviously. You picked the Texans.
I picked the Ravens, being from Baltimore, and that was, that
was, you know, not an insignificant choice in terms of
the way it affects, affected my story in in many ways because it
put me back in the environment in which I grew up generally.
And yeah, everyone people are, you know, like in every town
(14:06):
with a football team, people arenuts about it and nuts about
that team. From a very young age, I felt a
lot of expectation to make it, you know, that I was going to be
the one to do this and do that. And that was like that first
little bit of validation that others really echoed for me and
that I really absorbed because it felt like positive
(14:28):
validation. And not for a second at the time
that I think there was anything negative about that, but about,
you know, coming back after a game and Oh my gosh, they had
you on TV so much during this game.
We saw you next to coach whomever, you know, Harbaugh and
like all the time, blah, blah, blah.
Like, I'm not going to lie, as a22 year old, 23 year old, that
(14:52):
was really cool for me and for my friends, if it was they ever
thought it was, I mean, awesome.You know, they we had one, only
one Super Bowl at that point, but still the Ravens are huge
and that's a huge football town.So everybody was just so, so
excited by that that it's almostbecame like all people saw about
me. The only thing that anyone
really wanted to talk or asked about what was about like, let
(15:15):
me hear what so and so's like what's Ray Lewis like what's so,
you know, things like that. And that's why is when I say
identity, I don't even necessarily mean just my own
personal sense of identity. I mean the sense of identity
that I think when we are less mature can feel like it's
(15:36):
ascribed from other people, if that makes sense.
No, it absolutely does. It's like our we want to have a
perception of ourselves, but then the perception of ourselves
can get quickly altered by how others are seeing us because
that's what essentially is like beating those like dopamine
hits, right? And then that kind of takes
over, takes over and it's like, oh, well, that's, that's who I
(15:58):
am now. Obviously I'm just the the
football guy to everybody. That's like where my value is
coming from. Especially as a man, you're
going to feed into those things to where what gives you value.
Yeah, I mean, you're so spot on.That is so spot on.
When you talk about, I mean neurologically in terms of like
the dopaminergic reward system, like very much engaged, right,
(16:20):
right with that rather directly.And yeah, it just becomes, it
becomes very easy when those things feel good.
I sort of a feeling we're going to be echoing some of these
philosophies in other areas. But when it feels that's good,
you move toward it. Those validations that we're
not, not just going on at that time, but really had been the
seeds for them had been planted since I was like probably as
(16:42):
young as 7 or 8 years old in terms of like expectation for me
to make it in some way, whether it was like in politics or later
on, you know, people thought more like sports and stuff.
It was an expectation. I really I felt that I very much
internalized and to feel like I had was meeting that again fed
both forms of identity for me, the ones that others described
(17:06):
and the rewards for myself, the things that validated me
personally. So how did that lead you?
Is that kind of, you mentioned planting the seeds here, Did
that plant the seeds more so or did those seeds start to prowl
as you got more into your 20s, more into this career and then
the addiction may have started? Those seeds that I mentioned
(17:27):
most certainly were planted in early childhood through, you
know, a variety of things. Just without going too far down
a rabbit hole, basically, I've, I've heard you speak with
different people who work in education and child development
and stuff. And so it's a, it's a topic you
know you're familiar with, obviously.
Yeah. I think a better way to probably
(17:48):
put it is did those seeds get watered as you were in this this
phase of life 2223 and they start to sprout?
Root that's a great way to say if that's what you mean.
Yeah, that's absolutely what happened.
That's absolutely what happened.And again that happened earlier
too. You know, people kind of fed
that for me throughout my teens and and stuff through my
(18:09):
participation in sports and alsojust like academic performance,
things like that and social, theway I showed up socially, those
things were that were kind of always validated for me and it
felt like that was that was where my definitely.
You're fine. So I had to find some creative
(22:28):
ways around managing this addiction.
Something that I often say to people is that more than the
drug use, I think the secret is what quote, UN quote messed me
up, which is if you've ever, if you've lived anything like that,
I think it's really, it's relatable.
Anybody who's had to live some such a core part of their life
in secret, I think will probablyrelate to that because it was
(22:52):
that addiction is a full time job in itself.
We all know how football coacheswork.
And then managing the secrecy around this addiction and trying
to keep it compartmentalized from everybody in my
professional life. And my then wife was, I mean, it
was extremely challenging, extremely stressful.
I had so many I that's when I really started to develop even
(23:14):
more anxiety over which I had very little control.
And I look back on it like, dude, obviously you weren't
living authentically at all. I mean, you know, you were
pretending, you were pretending.You were one person and part of
your life was totally different.And part of your life was being
lived in a way that is really inconsistent with the values
that, you know, you were the spouse.
(23:37):
And it's not tough for me to admit.
Now, I got to take full ownership for that, obviously.
But it was something that was tough to reconcile because no
one wants to, I think maybe wantto feel like that part of my
accomplice is how are my actionsaligned with my values?
That that is just such a huge part of what guides my thinking
(24:00):
now. So it's hard for me to look back
even, you know, 10 years ago, eight years ago, and see someone
who didn't think that way or wasable to live life a life so
inauthentically when now radicaltransparency, as I call it, is
such a core part of my identity and my personality.
So yeah, in order to keep that secret, I had to do some, you
(24:23):
know, crazy stuff to manage by addiction.
Through that I got sleuthie on the Internet.
We'll leave that there. I I'm huge into plants.
I don't know, I mean, I'm sure that shows up on my Instagram a
little bit. I try not to over share about
it, but I love plants. I love pottery.
So they go hand in hand. Those are talk about sober
(24:44):
hobbies. Those are like things that I've
just, you know, really indulged.I loved in my life even before
recovery. However, a little wrinkle, the
complicating wrinkle in that is at one point I had the brilliant
idea to begin growing poppies. And it's not funny, but that's
what I do, is laugh at stuff. It's fun it.
(25:05):
It's ironic. It's the irony behind it.
Everything in hindsight, right? You're like, oh man, you saying
that? It's just like I'm hearing your
story and I'm like when an addict grows his own supply.
You know what? And it's a really, I'm glad to
have had that experience becauseit's an, it's an interesting
test case because so many peoplewhom I meet are under the false
(25:26):
impression that if money were never a factor, supply was never
a factor. If I didn't have to worry about
that at all, then I could just stay, keep this going my entire
life. I'm living proof that that is
not the case, or at least not for me, because I did have the
access that I needed. And yet my mental health, my
(25:47):
neurobiological health still deteriorated in a way that is
consistent with long term opioiduse.
And on top of that, on a psychological level, it
reinforced many things about theaddiction.
It normalized it for me. It romanticized it for me
because it tied into something about which I already had
passion. I'm sure there was a voice in my
(26:08):
brain that was like, I don't know, look how smart I am.
I can grow a plant and I get what I need from it through a
couple processes. And you know, like, it really
fed into a ugly part of me, really a part of which I'm not,
I'm not proud, but was was definitely a part of what got me
here. Motherhood kind of or how did
(26:30):
becoming a dad when you're, whenyour son was born, how did that
change things? This the, you said you've been
sober for eight years. As far as I know, he's, he's
about that age, so 7. So those two timelines are, are
pretty, pretty close to overlapping with your, your
sobriety and getting clean and getting into now the field that
(26:51):
you're working in now. So how did that really I guess
change things or set you on the better path?
Yeah, it's huge. You know, it is woven into that
like adna strand, like a Helix. I mean, it is there there's no
way to separate them. My ex-wife and I actually try,
we're trying for a couple years to get pregnant.
(27:14):
She had some trouble with that. So we were living in Ohio for I
was coaching out there and she was still coming back to
Maryland because she was she worked for Johns Hopkins and she
was, you know, receiving like fertility treatment and stuff
there. Long story short, operation, she
had an operation that after thatwe got pregnant within three
(27:36):
weeks. So it just happened really fast.
And you know, that's its own topic as far as people that
trying to get pregnant and people who struggle with that is
something that really educated me to a whole new world of pain
that people go through and was really tough for me to watch,
even for my, you know, for my ex-wife, like, yeah, it was, it
(27:57):
was tough to see. It was really, really hard for
her and but we get we get pregnant at this point.
So here's the timeline. I'm in Ohio.
I've reached the end. I've really I've reached the
point where my mental health hasdeteriorated so much.
I'm having serious panic attackscrippling.
That's the only way I can describe them as panic attacks.
(28:17):
And when I say that it's not necessarily what people picture
on TV, but it was absolutely arresting me and arresting my
functionality. I began to use what's known as
like research chemical RC benzodiazepines because you can
get them legally for my anxiety and again just escalated things
to a really bad point I made. And I hate saying this because
(28:41):
this is literally something thatagainst which I advise people
probably five times a day. But I made the idiotic decision
to try and detox myself at home because that's where I was.
I was not at the point where I could admit or accept help.
You know, I was still trying to at that point.
(29:01):
My ex-wife knew. She knew the last two years of
my active addiction, like about the opium and etcetera.
But I still was able to keep it compartmentalized.
Feel like that's pretty common for men, is it?
Not? Like when it comes to men in
addiction, you don't, you'll like, I'll just do it myself.
I'll do it myself. I'll detox myself, I'll do this
myself. I don't need nobody.
I don't want nobody. Like I don't want to accept it
(29:22):
from anybody. Is that more common with men
than women? You would say Yeah, Don your
head. I mean, that's a great question
to separate it, to think about it on a gender basis.
I would say probably, and this is really speculative and just
based on my experience, but I think probably women are often a
little bit more open to treatment initially than than
(29:44):
men are. However, in my experience,
especially around with opioids in particular, people want
people. Almost everyone goes through
several rounds of trying to do it themselves before they ever
get formal treatment or help. And some people are literally
are stuck in a perpetual cycle of, can, you know, convincing
(30:07):
themselves that they're this is going to be how they're able to,
to detox themselves. I have this tool now, whether
it's a chemical tool or something, you know, whatever
that's going to mitigate withdraw.
That's another huge illusion that I would like to disabuse
people on people who don't necessarily come from a world of
addiction. And that's that if I get through
(30:29):
withdrawal, I'm using air quotesfor anybody that's saying if I I
get through withdrawal, I'm fine.
I've made it. That is what stands between me
and a new life and functionality.
My inability to go through that torturous sickness that we all
know of as as opioid withdrawal,well paid to break it to people.
(30:51):
But that is not the case. That is not where the work ends,
that is very much where the workbegins.
And like I said, it just keeps people in a set and stuck in
that cycle trying to do it themselves.
I was no different and I'm trying to detox myself at home.
Long story short, I wake up in my my in our bedroom during the
(31:13):
day. It's around noon and I wake up
to a bunch of paramedics around me having had a grand Mal
seizure which lasted a little over 5 minutes.
And obviously you know that you know you're not aware after in a
post echal state you have don't have a memory of it.
If I do actually remember talking to the paramedics and
because I was trying to convincethem guys I did not just have a
(31:35):
seizure, trust me like I'm sick and I'm just sitting here
watching Breaking Bad and blah blah blah like but I did not I
can remember one of them saying to my ex-wife like Are you sure?
Because people don't usually talk like the right after
they've come out of a seizure, which again, I think is probably
just part of my years of practice, you know?
(31:56):
Yeah, you're used to, you're used to faking in and putting up
a story. And you had that ready, right?
That was just your subconscious,right?
That was your reality. It really is.
In your head. Oh and then I remember my
ex-wife saying Mike or Michael look at our bed we had all white
bedding and it was covered in blood.
Covered in blood because I had bitten my cheeks so, so
(32:16):
severely. And at that point I said, OK,
yeah, guys, I, I guess I had a seizure.
It was just really, I remember so hard to understand and
believe in that moment, but thatwas the impetus for me that that
broke what I call like the bubble, which is a good thing,
you know, that that bubble, thatinsulation that we as addicts
(32:37):
worked so hard to maintain because it's we're, we're
protecting our addiction. And why do we do that?
Because our addiction is what webecome conditioned to believe as
our main source of safety and security.
So like anything, we're going totake good care of that.
And that my my ex-wife wisely brought my mom, sister and dad
(32:58):
into the picture. My mom and sister are both
friends, so you know, they they work in the medical field.
And I'll never forget the next day, I I'm in Ohio, they're in
Baltimore, my mom's in Colorado.And the next day I opened my
front door there on my porch andI'm still trying to figure out
what's going on. Like, what are you guys doing
(33:20):
here? And they're like, come with us,
Just come back home for a littlebit, you know, as I can't do
that. And then I realized my wife has
my stuff packed. My ex-wife has my things packed
ready to go. And, and I went back there and
the next day they had brought, it brought in an interventionist
(33:42):
like what I do, some of now who had investigated treatment
options and everything for me. And I said yes, I went through
30 days of treatment fully. And I left there fully believing
that I had solved my issue of dependence, that I was not an
addict, quote UN quote, an addict, that this was an issue
of dependence, that I've had a monkey on my back for this many
(34:04):
years and now I'm liberated fromit.
And I say this like laughingly, because of the obvious
ignorance, you know, and becauseit's something I hear and see
every day now and for which I can't fault people because I had
the same delusion. So I went several months of not
not doing anything in terms of self improvement or working any
kind of program or anything. I started a business that was
(34:27):
related to like medical referraland that gave me a lot of access
to doctors and prescribers. And Long story short, I ended up
using again. And as addiction does, part of
addictions nature is that it's progressive and I was a really
good testament to that and that it deteriorated much more
(34:49):
quickly for me that time, which is something I'm I'm grateful.
That makes me grateful. My wife during the portion in
which I was sober, like, you know, clean, that's when she had
the surgery and got pregnant. So I have this new business.
I now have my first child on theway.
And I think it's impossible or it's, you know, it's ignorant
(35:11):
not to recognize that those things played a role in bringing
back some of those triggers thatled to my addiction in the 1st
place. Those things like whatever, you
know what I call NGE messages, not good enough inner critic
messages, you know, not enough money, not enough, all these
(35:32):
things not enough. And mind you, I'm out of, I'm
not working in football anymore.So there's like we talked about
identity starting out huge change there for me again that I
just did not pay enough attention to through her
pregnancy. I just remember getting so I was
so crazy with the working Jag. I was so insane.
(35:53):
I mean like I was not coming home for nights and not because
I was having any other romantic entanglements.
I was just working obsessed. It became I am obsessed with
impulsive. I do obsessed with pulse
disorder. So it really manifested itself
there and when the drugs became a factor, it just spiraled, you
know, so towards the end of my wife's pregnant, my ex wife's
(36:16):
pregnant, I knew I don't want tobe on anything, you know, when
he was born. So I tried to get myself off of
it. It's funny that people, in my
experience, for me at least, don't realize the drug use is
going on when you're on IT. People noticed something was
wrong when I was off of it, you know, that that's when things
(36:37):
became more apparent to them because I wasn't myself, you
know, I wasn't energetic and social and all these different
things that the drugs allowed me, quote UN quote, to be, you
know, in a superficial way. So my son was born and I
frankly, and this is a really hard thing to say without being,
(36:59):
you know, emotional, becoming emotional and that's it.
You know, I was affected when hewas born.
I was both in withdrawal and I was also taking Valium to try
and like help with that. That's a wound, man.
Like that's a really big wound that I've had to exercise.
I've had to work on a lot and had to exercise a lot of grace
(37:21):
toward myself, you know, and self forgiveness.
But it was, it's one of the hardest things, been one of the
hardest things to to really accept and move on from.
Well, Mike, that will have to come in.
I would love to hear more of that story and talk more about
that. But I think the story that you
shared today, not even think I know the story that you shared
today, really highlights that recovery is possible right
(37:43):
through, through work, through hard work, determination,
connection, love, and really just having the right
motivation, you know, realizing like I need help in accepting
that help that recovery is possible.
And we'll have to follow this upin a Part 2 because we didn't
even get into the actual recovery journey and what not,
but you're good. But we know it's possible,
(38:03):
right? The story now, I mean, look at
you now, private practice, recovery, fatherhood, Part 2.
You know, a new life and you knew a new, new life over these
last few years really got got you to where you are now and to
where you're going. So it's a great story to show
like, look, Mike, you were in the thick of it.
You were in the trenches and youknow that that story is made-up
(38:24):
who you are and who you are today and helped you helped you
become who you are. And so we'll have to finish this
up in a Part 2, but I, we got toget the kids off to summer camp
and things like that. Dad stuff, we got to go do dad
and I got to work and stuff today too, I guess.
But Mike, thank you so much today for sharing part of your
story. And we're going to have to do
(38:44):
this again to, to get the rest of it because I know the
recovery journey, the comeback is always sweeter than the
downfall. So we're going to get to that
recovery. We're going to get to that
second-half. We're going to get to that, that
comeback, because those comebackstories are what where the
inspiration lies. But I think for now, just people
seeing you talking here and you talk about it, hearing the the
way you talk about it, the way that you've recovered, the way
that you're open about it reallyshows a lot of recovery, self
(39:06):
work, self love, and a lot of grace given towards yourself
that you probably felt you didn't deserve and don't deserve
on a regular basis. But grace is something that's
really given even when we feel ourselves or the other person
doesn't deserve it. And so with that to our
listeners, if you want to check out Mike and get to know him
more, you can go and visit him on Instagram.
His handle is. Is it just at Curevine CURVINE?
(39:29):
At cure vice CUREVINE. Yep, Cure vine.
No punctuation or anything. That's my website as well.
That's that's the name of the private practice.
Perfect, we'll link that together.
We'll throw this together and put that in the show notes for
you guys to to check out. So until next time, stay well,
stay healthy, stay hydrated, go and go eat that BBQ, eat, go
(39:49):
smell that fresh cut grass, go hit a dad stance and admire your
hard work. So next time we'll see you right
here on the Young Dad Podcast. Thanks so much, Jay.
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