August 4, 2025 • 26 mins
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We dive deep into recent research that challenges everything you think you know about daily step goals. The famous 10,000 steps target was actually a marketing gimmick from 1960s Japan with no scientific backing, while new evidence shows 7,000 steps delivers the most dramatic health benefits.
• The 10,000 steps goal originated from Japanese marketing, not science
• Meta-analysis followed 161,000 adults across 24 global cohorts for seven years
• 7,000 daily steps reduced death risk by 47% compared to 2,000 steps
• Walking 7,000 steps cut heart disease risk by 25% and cancer mortality by 37%
• Dementia risk dropped 38% and depression symptoms decreased 22%
• Fall risk in older adults reduced by 28% with optimal step counts
• Most benefits occur transitioning from low to moderate activity levels
• Cardiovascular benefits plateau around 7,000-8,000 steps
• Diabetes prevention shows continued benefits beyond 10,000 steps
• Adding 1,000-2,000 steps equals roughly 10 minutes of walking
• Simple strategies include parking farther and taking after-dinner walks
Production and Content: Edward Delesky, MD & Nicole Aruffo, RN
Artwork: Olivia Pawlowski
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, welcome to your Checkup.
We are the patient educationpodcast, where we bring
conversations from the doctor'soffice to your ears.
On this podcast, we try tobring medicine closer to its
patients.
I'm Ed Dolesky, a familymedicine doctor in the
Philadelphia area, and I'mNicola Rufo.
I'm a nurse, and we are soexcited you were able to join us
(00:24):
here again today, so I madethis.
I wanted some sort of Mexicanfood to make this week, but I
didn't want it to be anenchilada, because that's your
territory and there's no way Ican make an enchilada better
than you do.
And I thought about I mean,burrito was off the table, too
complicated.
I mean, burrito was off thetable too complicated.
Thought about fajita, but Iended up making this white chili
(00:47):
, chicken-based, with poblanopeppers.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
What did you think it was delicious?
Oh wait, no, you have dinnerplanned for us tonight.
I was going to say I might havesome for dinner tonight.
I brought some for lunch theother day and, yes, it's been
like 100 degrees out and Eddiewas making chili for dinner, and
then I brought some to work andit was really good.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
What did you like about it?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
All of it, everything it tasted delicious.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I had never cooked with the poblano pepper before
and I guess when I've beenfinding these, you know I've
been like making my own littlerecipe book of links in the
notes section of my phone.
But I feel, when I've beenfinding these, you know I've
been like making my own littlerecipe book of links in the
notes section of my phone.
But I feel like I really shouldwrite these down in the book at
some point yeah, we have areceipt book.
We do have a receipt book.
I also feel like I haven't madeit through like one turn of the
rotation of, like my specialmeals to where, like you won't
(01:40):
remember them, like I don'tremember what I made like five
weeks ago, but there wassomething there that like I made
and I was like, wow, that wasgood, you should make that again
.
But I don't remember what itwas.
So that's why I have to lookback in my receipt book yeah,
this should go in the receiptbook I'm honored.
(02:01):
it was, um, you know I theshredding the chicken was the
piece that was like a littleannoying.
I did the two forks method.
Seems like there's anattachment on some kitchen
product that I can use to beable to shred the chicken easier
.
And yeah, poblano peppersweren't that hot.
It was good.
I would do it again and it madea good amount too.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Any other thoughts about the the chili 10 out of 10
.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, and tonight, um , we're recording this not
exactly on a sunday, but youknow, tonight we're going to
have salmon we're gonna salmon.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I'm so excited for this.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I love salmon so much you know, we, growing up, there
was, um, I tried to, like youknow, scoot outside a little bit
of what I know, which is like,uh, you know, a dry rub lemon
pepper seasoning.
So tonight is a littledifferent.
We are doing a soy sauce withminced garlic marinade and the
good people have read it seem tothink that an orange zest with
(03:02):
orange juice was the way to go.
So that's been sitting, youknow, the salmon has been
sitting in that marinade for thebetter part of the day.
Um, it does.
I do have to look up, like, howlong to cook salmon for, which
is like I, you know you can lookat it and you're like, oh, just
like you know when it's right,but, uh, do you have any off the
dome thoughts about how long tocook salmon for?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
What is it Like?
Two little pieces.
Yeah maybe like an inch, maybea little less than an inch thick
, Like I feel like salmon cookspretty quick, like 12 to 15
minutes maybe.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I think that's what the AI ai generated answers
online really, yeah, at 400degrees I'm just going vibes,
you know I know, yeah, the vibesis okay, but you know like my
vibes brought me to a broiledsalmon last time yeah, no, we're
not, which is fine.
You know, that's how I used todo it.
I think I'm gonna try baking itreally yeah, growing up that's
what we did.
So you said well, I think,unless because the broiler and
(04:06):
the bake is in the same area, soI'm not sure.
If it was like it's all in theoven Bake, then hit a button,
then broil, I didn't payattention that much.
This is all a much more recentoccurrence that I'm like really
actively participating in thekitchen.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I know I love it, especially since, like you, have
like a break from work, soyou're just my little stay at
home house husband and you knowI got to say something actually.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I do have something to say here in the pre-show
banter.
Okay, I don't know if you'regoing to cut this.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Time will tell.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
No, I just okay.
Like I go to work, I come home,I can just like hang out, chill
, take a shower, do my skincarework out if I didn't before work
and then I come down anddinner's either ready or being
made, the house is clean andit's lovely.
(05:08):
And, you know, I feel like menaren't as stupid as we've been
saying that they are, becausethis is what men have been doing
for years.
Like they go to work, they comehome, dinner's ready, the house
is clean.
Da da, da da.
It's a great way to live good.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I'm glad that this is what's came, what came out,
because I was waiting for theshoe to drop, because and I've
been trying to be moreintentional about this, about
leaving a mess afterwards andlike I'm I really try to like
clean up as I'm going now,especially in the last like week
or two, because I realize it,it's so much easier that it does
, and like having an emptydishwasher.
(05:50):
I mean, there was a time when Ididn't have a dishwasher not
growing up, but, like you know,early 20s and didn't have a
dishwasher, and that was liketough, what was me?
No dishwasher.
But you know, you sink into thecorner of the couch and time
flies and you're rottingwatching your shows and then all
of a sudden, like the second,third, helping that I was going
(06:11):
to go get or continue to be inthe kitchen and then all of a
sudden it's like time to go tobed.
We're a little embarrassedabout when that bedtime is, so
I'm not going to say it out loud.
Yeah, it's 830.
It varies, it varies, and thenit's still like messy out there,
and so I'm trying to be betterabout that.
No, you're right, I think.
I mean this is like the easiestthing.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Like I actually had that thought.
I was like, wow, this is whatmen had been doing for years.
Obviously, women go to work.
Blah, blah, blah.
We know.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
But like back in the day, this whole time we've been
clouding on men saying they'restupid.
They cracked the code years ago.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Maybe they did Um, you know, 2025.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I'm here unveiling their secrets.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
No, I'm glad you like it.
I um, it makes me feel you know, in this time that's a little
uh, nebulous about what I doduring the day.
It makes me feel nice to beable to have one less thing for
you to worry about.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, I should bring you home he has his like you
should bring me home a sandwich.
You went to the beach again.
Came home without a sandwich.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
They don't keep well if I don't get it and bring it
immediately back.
So that's it doesn't keep well.
This one didn't keep well.
I think they like skimped onthe blue cheese a little bit,
which was a part of the issue.
The like roasted turkey longhot one is great.
I just wish there was more bluecheese on this buffalo chicken
(07:48):
one yeah, I should order extrablue cheese next time.
I'm not gonna be that guy why,can I have extra blue cheese?
Yeah, I don't know what wereyou gonna say before I said
something about the sandwiches.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
What was I gonna say?
Oh, you have back to your house, husband oh yeah day you have
your, your um ladies at wegmansthat you see every monday, oh
what gems?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
oh my god.
Yeah, I don't think I've talkedabout this before.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
She wasn't there on monday and I was upset about it,
um, so she took a long weekendso there's two different women
who I've um interacted with onetwice now one I dumped, like
they work there they work there.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, yeah, they're um cashiers, um.
The second one, the one in themiddle, is a quicker story.
I was making mussels that dayand like they didn't have
plastic bags, so I just have themussels sitting in the mesh,
sitting in a cooler bag, and I Iplop the muscles on there as
I'm just like unloading aconveyor belt of food.
And then she's like, oh, no,now my entire conveyor belt is
going to smell like muscles allday.
(08:53):
I felt bad about that.
Now I'm more aware.
Second lady I had the sameinteraction twice on the first
and third trip of the month, andshe was like, oh, so do you
have the day off or something?
And I was like, oh, you know,I'm actually uh, I'm actually uh
, well, I'm like, oh,transitioning roles now.
So I'm like, no, I'm actuallylike a family medicine doctor,
(09:14):
primary care doctor.
It's like, oh, oh.
And I'm like, yeah, I'm headingover here in september, so I
have some time off trying tryingnew things in the kitchen.
You know, take it for a spinand they're great, she's great.
And then she thought of me whenshe read a paper in the
inquirer saying that more peopleshould go into family medicine
instead of like neurosurgery,which I stand behind.
(09:36):
I mean we need moreneurosurgeons, of course, but I
think we desperately need morepeople in primary care, so you
know.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Definitely wouldn't have to go to work if you were a
neurosurgeon.
No you also wouldn't see meAlso wouldn't see me.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
There was one time in med school I was a quick, quick
little anecdote here I was inthe operating room with a
neurosurgeon Really really greatguy and he was like please do
anything other than this.
And I was like why he told methis sad story and I don't know
if there are any neurosurgeonslistening.
But he got home from work atlike two in the morning and he
had two young kids at home andhe walked into the kid's room
(10:15):
and the kids start screaming,thinking that there's a stranger
in the building.
And that's when he knew that hespent a lot of time at work.
And then he went to sleep forthree hours and got up at five
and went back yikes now being aneurosurgeon wasn't ever on the
list of things for me to do.
Have a ton of respect for them,but people should do primary
(10:35):
care because we need more ofthat oh, can I have a sip here
of Poppy?
Yeah, go ahead, go nuts, Not apaid advertisement.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Oh my God, you almost .
Why don't you just have?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
the whole thing.
When did you open this?
I opened it around like 2 pm.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Oh, you did.
Yeah, I thought you just openedit now.
No, no, go nuts.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
All right.
So what are we going to talkabout today, Nick?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Today we're talking about step counting, and how
many steps do you really need ina day?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So there's a recent study that came out in the
Lancet Public Health July 2025,that discusses readjusting maybe
the step goal, and I see a lotof headlines on social media
about like, oh, 10,000 stepsmight not be the goal anymore,
and one thing that left mefrustrated was like the articles
are all very superficial and Iwanted to take the time to
actually read the study and thenbreak down for you all what
(11:38):
this actually may mean.
So we're talking aboutsomething that's really easy to
overlook but has a hugeimportance in your daily steps.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, so we've heard, like you said, that everyone's
heard that you should have10,000 steps a day.
At least it's everywhere.
On every fitness app, fitnesstracker.
Yeah, the fitness girl is onTikTok.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Love to talk about their steps.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yep, but that act, that number, was actually um
kind of essentially pulled outof thin air as a marketing um
tactic from a pedometer companyin Japan in the 1960s which is
fascinating.
Yeah, I know, it's kind of likethere was no science behind
that number at the time, justkind of picked a number.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
It's like a nice round number.
Yeah, it's like, why not?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
And here we are in 2025, still going along with
this marketing campaign,basically.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, and it really up until now.
I mean, a lot of differentstudies have looked into this
individually, but this one is abig conglomeration of a lot of
other studies, but up until nowthere wasn't a whole lot of
science behind it at the time.
So the question we're trying toanswer today for you by
reviewing this paper is how manysteps do you actually need for
better health?
Is it 10,000, or could it besomething way less?
(13:03):
The answer might surprise youand it might change how you
think about health, fitness and,like in quotes, what counts
when it comes to movement.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Okay, so before we talk about the number, we'll
talk about the study first, andthe study was actually um
followed a large group of peopleover the course of seven years.
It followed 161,000 adultsacross 24 global cohorts.
Um just people wearing a steptracker living their lives.
(13:34):
So really they just measure thesteps.
They watched what happens withthese people in their everyday
lives and then they watched whathappened and they were tracking
outcomes such as death, heartdisease, cancer, diabetes,
dementia, depression and eventhings like falls.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, and it's one of the.
This type of study is called ameta-analysis, when they take a
bunch of different studies andthey put them together and take
all of that data and then dosome statistical magic on it to
try to draw some conclusionbased off of all of that.
And so basically they measuredthe steps and then they watched
(14:14):
what happened over time.
A key piece that happens inhere is like a lot of times in
these reported studies aboutphysical movement, people are
reporting what they do.
Like they're saying, oh yeah, Imoved for half an hour today of
moderate intensity exercise.
But something we've done inprior episodes is try to like
quantify that and it's kind ofchallenging because it's very
personal, right.
(14:35):
Like it's breathlessness whenyou are talking to a neighbor.
Steps are much more black andwhite.
There's no guessing, there's nodiary about what you do, it's
just movement from real peoplein the real world.
And so, getting into theheadline stats that they did,
you know, for anyone reallyinterested you can go look at
(14:56):
the method section.
But we kind of tried to explainit in that last segment there.
What they did is they comparedpeople to other folks walking
2000 steps a day.
They called that the lowestamount that people would
normally do on average so notcompletely sedentary, but just
2000 steps a day was thecomparison group.
(15:17):
Then they took people who had7,000 steps a day and that's
where they found the mostremarkable results.
So people walking 7,000 steps aday, compared to 2,000 steps a
day, had the following a 47%lower risk of dying from any
(15:37):
reason, a 25% lower risk ofdeveloping heart disease, 37%
lower risk of dying from cancer,38% lower risk of dementia, 22%
lower risk of depressivesymptoms and they were 28% less
(16:01):
likely to fall.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Those statistics are all not insignificant.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Not at all.
The coolest part of it is thatmost of the benefit came from
going from a very low step countto more moderate ones, count to
more moderate ones.
So I'm talking like 2,000 or4,000 steps to even 6,000, which
(16:32):
makes it much more attainable.
You may not necessarily need10,000 steps is one of the big
takeaways from this paper but Ido think it would be important
for us to spend a little timeand break down each outcome a
little bit more.
So first up would becardiovascular disease.
More steps led to fewer heartproblems.
That was simple, and especiallywhen it got to about 7,000 to
8,000 steps, more steps.
(16:54):
After that the curve of benefitflattened, so there wasn't as
much benefit afterwards, but itdidn't reverse and there was
still continued benefit, but notas dramatic after that 7,000 to
8,000 mark.
What about cancer mortality?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Cancer mortality, or dying from cancer, was about a
37% lower risk when people weretaking 7,000 steps a day.
Um, so that's not to say thatyour risk of getting cancer is
lowered by 37%.
It's that death risk.
If you have cancer, it goesdown.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yep Key thing Um which a little bit of a bummer,
you know, it would be nice ifyou can like avoid that, um, but
it makes it.
You know, it gives people morelongevity when they carry these
diagnoses and not somethingwe've spent a lot of time
talking about on the podcasthere, but you know, having there
are a lot of people living withcancer, especially now with
(17:53):
advanced therapies chemotherapy,immunotherapy so it's nice to
know that there's something outthere that someone can do to
lengthen their life.
So then there's type 2 diabetes,which they looked at Obviously
a huge public health issue thatwe've spent a lot of time
talking about.
What they found is that peoplewalking 7,000 steps a day had a
14% lower risk of developingdiabetes.
(18:16):
This makes a lot of sense to me, keeping in line with how we've
discussed physical activity anda healthy diet as ways to
prevent it.
But now we have some figuresthat say about 7,000 steps has a
bit of reduction, and what theyfound in this paper is that the
benefits kept increasing evenpast 10,000 steps.
This was a little bit more of alinear association in
(18:38):
comparison to thatcardiovascular risk, where it
was kind of like the end of aslope where things flattened out
.
You still got benefit, but nota ton after 7,000, not the case
for the diabetes.
That was more linearrelationship.
The more, the better.
Nikki.
What did they say about thiswas a really interesting one,
(18:59):
pretty significant benefit there.
There were a couple studiesthat they included that looked
at this dementia.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, the dementia one was um.
Like you said earlier was therisk had dropped by 38% with
higher steps.
So this one um was a little bithigher than 7,000.
It was about 8,800 steps, butstill not 10,000.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And decreasing your risk of dementia by 38% just by
walking is kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
It is great, and you know we shouldn't overlook
mental health.
People who had more steps had a22% lower risk of depression
and that again, like diabetes,was a straight line.
So more steps, better mood.
We incorporate, we try toincorporate exercise into all of
our treatment plans for people,for people with depression, and
so this makes a lot of sense tome.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Endorphins make you happy, and happy people don't
kill their husbands, and happypeople don't kill their husbands
, I hope you're happy.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
And then there's falls, especially falls in older
adults, and this deserves alittle bit more of a discussion.
So those older adults walkingaround 8,800 steps a day had a
28% lower fall risk.
Now, if you're someone who'syoung and listening to this and
you haven't considered falls,they can be devastating.
For someone who's elderly, theycan.
(20:21):
Someone being isolated at home,they can fall, and they can be
in danger just by laying on theground.
If they can't get up, they canbreak bones.
It could be really justdevastating altogether.
What they did find, though, isthat for some folks who are over
75, there was a little hint inthe data that says that maybe
too many steps might increasethe risk if they have balance or
(20:45):
frailty issues, and that wasmore of a postulation from their
discussion about why theythought that might happen.
But there was a littleinflection point where, at some
point, too many steps turnthings in a different direction
and maybe increased falls.
So I don't think there'sanything huge to say here.
I think people should be.
If you're at 2,000 steps a dayand you aren't walking as much,
(21:06):
I think you have a lot of roomto improve, but maybe don't go
overboard, is my takeaway, Doyou agree?
Mm-hmm takeaway, Do you agree?
So those were.
We tried to the itemized listthere of all the different
outcomes that they looked at.
What is the big takeaway?
What is the ideal number per se?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I'd say the sweet spots around seven to 8,000
steps a day.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, and that at that spot there's a whole lot of
health benefits and they eitherplateau or max out right around
there.
It seems that for a lot of themgoing higher isn't bad, but the
biggest return goes from goinglow to moderate.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, and most people can work their way to 7,000
steps really just in youreveryday life.
You don't need to get a new gymmembership or buy a treadmill
or anything crazy like that.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, and so you know , in this next part, really we
want to motivate you.
So what can you do this week?
So let's make it real.
Say you take out your phone ormaybe you have a watch.
Say you're averaging about3,000 steps a day.
Set a goal to hit 4,000 or5,000 steps this week, and I
mean realistically, it lookslike about an extra 10 minutes
(22:23):
of walking.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, and an extra 10 minutes of walking.
If we kind of bring like anumber like 4,000 or 5,000 down
to something, that's 10 minutes,it's pretty easy to do.
To do.
You can walk around yourneighborhood, go for a walk
after dinner, park your carfarther when you're at the
grocery store I love a farparked car you do love a far
(22:45):
parked car, which I don't,depending on the situation.
I do love an after dinner walkwe don't do that here, but I
love an after dinner walk yeah,maybe in the suburbs I do love
the only okay we're not citypeople I do love, we can like
(23:11):
because we live in such awalkable city, if we are walking
to dinner I it really makessuch a difference Like, even if
it's like a 10 minute walk backhome, you just feel so much
better, Like there is nothingbad like, or I'm sorry, there's
like nothing worse.
I feel like then going to areally big dinner, probably
eating way more than you wouldotherwise be comfortable with,
(23:33):
and then sitting in a car.
Oh yeah way more than you wouldotherwise be comfortable with.
And then sitting in a car.
Oh yeah, it's like like walkinghome.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
You like stretch out things, get moving oh yeah
things start working unless it'sfrom tom's dim sum, and I'm
like struggling, oh yeah, youwere yeah I shouldn't have had a
diet coke.
No, no, that shouldn't havehappened.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
That was my can't mix bubbles with MSG.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
No, there's gotta be something in there.
Maybe there's an episodebrewing Like there was stuff
brewing in me and MSG X bubblesepisode, but who knows.
But it really does all add up.
And if you do walk a lotalready, that's great.
Um, if not, you can think aboutthis that even a small increase
can really make a difference.
I think this is an open accessstudy, so if anyone's really
(24:18):
curious to look into it, theycan.
But they even showed benefit,like adding a thousand steps at
each interval and see whatbenefit that gets you.
It was really cool.
There's a lot of complicatedhealth topics that we cover on
this show.
We try to distill them and makethem simple.
Eat this, this medicine doesthis, this side effect.
(24:38):
This is all complicated.
This one's simple Move more andyou can take one step at a time
, literally.
Literally one step at a timeand truly, your brain, your
heart, your mood, your futureself will be so proud of you,
and with that I thank you forcoming back to another episode
of your Checkup.
Hopefully you were able tolearn something for yourself, a
(25:00):
loved one or a neighbor.
If you like this, send it tosomeone who you think might like
it.
Share it with a family memberor friend, and you can check us
out on our social media.
We're most active on Threads,the text-based Instagram app.
If you did like anything fromhere, rate and review.
(25:21):
If you don't mind, you justleave a little message on our
Apple podcast or wherever you'relistening, and I'm done
rambling at this point.
So, most importantly, stayhealthy, my friends, until next
time.
I'm Ed Dolesky.
I'm Nicole Ruffo.
Thank you and goodbye, bye,no-transcript for a complete
(26:26):
information tailored to you.
In short, I'm not your doctor,I am not your nurse, and make
sure you go get your own checkupwith your own personal doctor.
Hi, welcome to your Checkup.
We are the patient educationpodcast, where we bring
conversations from the doctor'soffice to your ears.
On this podcast, we try tobring medicine closer to its
patients.
I'm Ed Dolesky, a familymedicine doctor in the
Philadelphia area, and I'mNicola Rufo.
I'm a nurse, and we are soexcited you were able to join us
(00:24):
here again today, so I madethis.
I wanted some sort of Mexicanfood to make this week, but I
didn't want it to be anenchilada, because that's your
territory and there's no way Ican make an enchilada better
than you do.
And I thought about I mean,burrito was off the table, too
complicated.
I mean, burrito was off thetable too complicated.
Thought about fajita, but Iended up making this white chili
(00:47):
, chicken-based, with poblanopeppers.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
What did you think it was delicious?
Oh wait, no, you have dinnerplanned for us tonight.
I was going to say I might havesome for dinner tonight.
I brought some for lunch theother day and, yes, it's been
like 100 degrees out and Eddiewas making chili for dinner, and
then I brought some to work andit was really good.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
What did you like about it?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
All of it, everything it tasted delicious.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I had never cooked with the poblano pepper before
and I guess when I've beenfinding these, you know I've
been like making my own littlerecipe book of links in the
notes section of my phone.
But I feel, when I've beenfinding these, you know I've
been like making my own littlerecipe book of links in the
notes section of my phone.
But I feel like I really shouldwrite these down in the book at
some point yeah, we have areceipt book.
We do have a receipt book.
I also feel like I haven't madeit through like one turn of the
rotation of, like my specialmeals to where, like you won't
(01:40):
remember them, like I don'tremember what I made like five
weeks ago, but there wassomething there that like I made
and I was like, wow, that wasgood, you should make that again
.
But I don't remember what itwas.
So that's why I have to lookback in my receipt book yeah,
this should go in the receiptbook I'm honored.
(02:01):
it was, um, you know I theshredding the chicken was the
piece that was like a littleannoying.
I did the two forks method.
Seems like there's anattachment on some kitchen
product that I can use to beable to shred the chicken easier
.
And yeah, poblano peppersweren't that hot.
It was good.
I would do it again and it madea good amount too.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Any other thoughts about the the chili 10 out of 10
.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, and tonight, um , we're recording this not
exactly on a sunday, but youknow, tonight we're going to
have salmon we're gonna salmon.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I'm so excited for this.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I love salmon so much you know, we, growing up, there
was, um, I tried to, like youknow, scoot outside a little bit
of what I know, which is like,uh, you know, a dry rub lemon
pepper seasoning.
So tonight is a littledifferent.
We are doing a soy sauce withminced garlic marinade and the
good people have read it seem tothink that an orange zest with
(03:02):
orange juice was the way to go.
So that's been sitting, youknow, the salmon has been
sitting in that marinade for thebetter part of the day.
Um, it does.
I do have to look up, like, howlong to cook salmon for, which
is like I, you know you can lookat it and you're like, oh, just
like you know when it's right,but, uh, do you have any off the
dome thoughts about how long tocook salmon for?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
What is it Like?
Two little pieces.
Yeah maybe like an inch, maybea little less than an inch thick
, Like I feel like salmon cookspretty quick, like 12 to 15
minutes maybe.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I think that's what the AI ai generated answers
online really, yeah, at 400degrees I'm just going vibes,
you know I know, yeah, the vibesis okay, but you know like my
vibes brought me to a broiledsalmon last time yeah, no, we're
not, which is fine.
You know, that's how I used todo it.
I think I'm gonna try baking itreally yeah, growing up that's
what we did.
So you said well, I think,unless because the broiler and
(04:06):
the bake is in the same area, soI'm not sure.
If it was like it's all in theoven Bake, then hit a button,
then broil, I didn't payattention that much.
This is all a much more recentoccurrence that I'm like really
actively participating in thekitchen.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I know I love it, especially since, like you, have
like a break from work, soyou're just my little stay at
home house husband and you knowI got to say something actually.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I do have something to say here in the pre-show
banter.
Okay, I don't know if you'regoing to cut this.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Time will tell.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
No, I just okay.
Like I go to work, I come home,I can just like hang out, chill
, take a shower, do my skincarework out if I didn't before work
and then I come down anddinner's either ready or being
made, the house is clean andit's lovely.
(05:08):
And, you know, I feel like menaren't as stupid as we've been
saying that they are, becausethis is what men have been doing
for years.
Like they go to work, they comehome, dinner's ready, the house
is clean.
Da da, da da.
It's a great way to live good.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I'm glad that this is what's came, what came out,
because I was waiting for theshoe to drop, because and I've
been trying to be moreintentional about this, about
leaving a mess afterwards andlike I'm I really try to like
clean up as I'm going now,especially in the last like week
or two, because I realize it,it's so much easier that it does
, and like having an emptydishwasher.
(05:50):
I mean, there was a time when Ididn't have a dishwasher not
growing up, but, like you know,early 20s and didn't have a
dishwasher, and that was liketough, what was me?
No dishwasher.
But you know, you sink into thecorner of the couch and time
flies and you're rottingwatching your shows and then all
of a sudden, like the second,third, helping that I was going
(06:11):
to go get or continue to be inthe kitchen and then all of a
sudden it's like time to go tobed.
We're a little embarrassedabout when that bedtime is, so
I'm not going to say it out loud.
Yeah, it's 830.
It varies, it varies, and thenit's still like messy out there,
and so I'm trying to be betterabout that.
No, you're right, I think.
I mean this is like the easiestthing.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Like I actually had that thought.
I was like, wow, this is whatmen had been doing for years.
Obviously, women go to work.
Blah, blah, blah.
We know.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
But like back in the day, this whole time we've been
clouding on men saying they'restupid.
They cracked the code years ago.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Maybe they did Um, you know, 2025.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I'm here unveiling their secrets.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
No, I'm glad you like it.
I um, it makes me feel you know, in this time that's a little
uh, nebulous about what I doduring the day.
It makes me feel nice to beable to have one less thing for
you to worry about.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, I should bring you home he has his like you
should bring me home a sandwich.
You went to the beach again.
Came home without a sandwich.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
They don't keep well if I don't get it and bring it
immediately back.
So that's it doesn't keep well.
This one didn't keep well.
I think they like skimped onthe blue cheese a little bit,
which was a part of the issue.
The like roasted turkey longhot one is great.
I just wish there was more bluecheese on this buffalo chicken
(07:48):
one yeah, I should order extrablue cheese next time.
I'm not gonna be that guy why,can I have extra blue cheese?
Yeah, I don't know what wereyou gonna say before I said
something about the sandwiches.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
What was I gonna say?
Oh, you have back to your house, husband oh yeah day you have
your, your um ladies at wegmansthat you see every monday, oh
what gems?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
oh my god.
Yeah, I don't think I've talkedabout this before.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
She wasn't there on monday and I was upset about it,
um, so she took a long weekendso there's two different women
who I've um interacted with onetwice now one I dumped, like
they work there they work there.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, yeah, they're um cashiers, um.
The second one, the one in themiddle, is a quicker story.
I was making mussels that dayand like they didn't have
plastic bags, so I just have themussels sitting in the mesh,
sitting in a cooler bag, and I Iplop the muscles on there as
I'm just like unloading aconveyor belt of food.
And then she's like, oh, no,now my entire conveyor belt is
going to smell like muscles allday.
(08:53):
I felt bad about that.
Now I'm more aware.
Second lady I had the sameinteraction twice on the first
and third trip of the month, andshe was like, oh, so do you
have the day off or something?
And I was like, oh, you know,I'm actually uh, I'm actually uh
, well, I'm like, oh,transitioning roles now.
So I'm like, no, I'm actuallylike a family medicine doctor,
(09:14):
primary care doctor.
It's like, oh, oh.
And I'm like, yeah, I'm headingover here in september, so I
have some time off trying tryingnew things in the kitchen.
You know, take it for a spinand they're great, she's great.
And then she thought of me whenshe read a paper in the
inquirer saying that more peopleshould go into family medicine
instead of like neurosurgery,which I stand behind.
(09:36):
I mean we need moreneurosurgeons, of course, but I
think we desperately need morepeople in primary care, so you
know.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Definitely wouldn't have to go to work if you were a
neurosurgeon.
No you also wouldn't see meAlso wouldn't see me.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
There was one time in med school I was a quick, quick
little anecdote here I was inthe operating room with a
neurosurgeon Really really greatguy and he was like please do
anything other than this.
And I was like why he told methis sad story and I don't know
if there are any neurosurgeonslistening.
But he got home from work atlike two in the morning and he
had two young kids at home andhe walked into the kid's room
(10:15):
and the kids start screaming,thinking that there's a stranger
in the building.
And that's when he knew that hespent a lot of time at work.
And then he went to sleep forthree hours and got up at five
and went back yikes now being aneurosurgeon wasn't ever on the
list of things for me to do.
Have a ton of respect for them,but people should do primary
(10:35):
care because we need more ofthat oh, can I have a sip here
of Poppy?
Yeah, go ahead, go nuts, Not apaid advertisement.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Oh my God, you almost .
Why don't you just have?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
the whole thing.
When did you open this?
I opened it around like 2 pm.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Oh, you did.
Yeah, I thought you just openedit now.
No, no, go nuts.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
All right.
So what are we going to talkabout today, Nick?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Today we're talking about step counting, and how
many steps do you really need ina day?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So there's a recent study that came out in the
Lancet Public Health July 2025,that discusses readjusting maybe
the step goal, and I see a lotof headlines on social media
about like, oh, 10,000 stepsmight not be the goal anymore,
and one thing that left mefrustrated was like the articles
are all very superficial and Iwanted to take the time to
actually read the study and thenbreak down for you all what
(11:38):
this actually may mean.
So we're talking aboutsomething that's really easy to
overlook but has a hugeimportance in your daily steps.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, so we've heard, like you said, that everyone's
heard that you should have10,000 steps a day.
At least it's everywhere.
On every fitness app, fitnesstracker.
Yeah, the fitness girl is onTikTok.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Love to talk about their steps.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yep, but that act, that number, was actually um
kind of essentially pulled outof thin air as a marketing um
tactic from a pedometer companyin Japan in the 1960s which is
fascinating.
Yeah, I know, it's kind of likethere was no science behind
that number at the time, justkind of picked a number.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
It's like a nice round number.
Yeah, it's like, why not?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
And here we are in 2025, still going along with
this marketing campaign,basically.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, and it really up until now.
I mean, a lot of differentstudies have looked into this
individually, but this one is abig conglomeration of a lot of
other studies, but up until nowthere wasn't a whole lot of
science behind it at the time.
So the question we're trying toanswer today for you by
reviewing this paper is how manysteps do you actually need for
better health?
Is it 10,000, or could it besomething way less?
(13:03):
The answer might surprise youand it might change how you
think about health, fitness and,like in quotes, what counts
when it comes to movement.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Okay, so before we talk about the number, we'll
talk about the study first, andthe study was actually um
followed a large group of peopleover the course of seven years.
It followed 161,000 adultsacross 24 global cohorts.
Um just people wearing a steptracker living their lives.
(13:34):
So really they just measure thesteps.
They watched what happens withthese people in their everyday
lives and then they watched whathappened and they were tracking
outcomes such as death, heartdisease, cancer, diabetes,
dementia, depression and eventhings like falls.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, and it's one of the.
This type of study is called ameta-analysis, when they take a
bunch of different studies andthey put them together and take
all of that data and then dosome statistical magic on it to
try to draw some conclusionbased off of all of that.
And so basically they measuredthe steps and then they watched
(14:14):
what happened over time.
A key piece that happens inhere is like a lot of times in
these reported studies aboutphysical movement, people are
reporting what they do.
Like they're saying, oh yeah, Imoved for half an hour today of
moderate intensity exercise.
But something we've done inprior episodes is try to like
quantify that and it's kind ofchallenging because it's very
personal, right.
(14:35):
Like it's breathlessness whenyou are talking to a neighbor.
Steps are much more black andwhite.
There's no guessing, there's nodiary about what you do, it's
just movement from real peoplein the real world.
And so, getting into theheadline stats that they did,
you know, for anyone reallyinterested you can go look at
(14:56):
the method section.
But we kind of tried to explainit in that last segment there.
What they did is they comparedpeople to other folks walking
2000 steps a day.
They called that the lowestamount that people would
normally do on average so notcompletely sedentary, but just
2000 steps a day was thecomparison group.
(15:17):
Then they took people who had7,000 steps a day and that's
where they found the mostremarkable results.
So people walking 7,000 steps aday, compared to 2,000 steps a
day, had the following a 47%lower risk of dying from any
(15:37):
reason, a 25% lower risk ofdeveloping heart disease, 37%
lower risk of dying from cancer,38% lower risk of dementia, 22%
lower risk of depressivesymptoms and they were 28% less
(16:01):
likely to fall.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Those statistics are all not insignificant.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Not at all.
The coolest part of it is thatmost of the benefit came from
going from a very low step countto more moderate ones, count to
more moderate ones.
So I'm talking like 2,000 or4,000 steps to even 6,000, which
(16:32):
makes it much more attainable.
You may not necessarily need10,000 steps is one of the big
takeaways from this paper but Ido think it would be important
for us to spend a little timeand break down each outcome a
little bit more.
So first up would becardiovascular disease.
More steps led to fewer heartproblems.
That was simple, and especiallywhen it got to about 7,000 to
8,000 steps, more steps.
(16:54):
After that the curve of benefitflattened, so there wasn't as
much benefit afterwards, but itdidn't reverse and there was
still continued benefit, but notas dramatic after that 7,000 to
8,000 mark.
What about cancer mortality?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Cancer mortality, or dying from cancer, was about a
37% lower risk when people weretaking 7,000 steps a day.
Um, so that's not to say thatyour risk of getting cancer is
lowered by 37%.
It's that death risk.
If you have cancer, it goesdown.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yep Key thing Um which a little bit of a bummer,
you know, it would be nice ifyou can like avoid that, um, but
it makes it.
You know, it gives people morelongevity when they carry these
diagnoses and not somethingwe've spent a lot of time
talking about on the podcasthere, but you know, having there
are a lot of people living withcancer, especially now with
(17:53):
advanced therapies chemotherapy,immunotherapy so it's nice to
know that there's something outthere that someone can do to
lengthen their life.
So then there's type 2 diabetes,which they looked at Obviously
a huge public health issue thatwe've spent a lot of time
talking about.
What they found is that peoplewalking 7,000 steps a day had a
14% lower risk of developingdiabetes.
(18:16):
This makes a lot of sense to me, keeping in line with how we've
discussed physical activity anda healthy diet as ways to
prevent it.
But now we have some figuresthat say about 7,000 steps has a
bit of reduction, and what theyfound in this paper is that the
benefits kept increasing evenpast 10,000 steps.
This was a little bit more of alinear association in
(18:38):
comparison to thatcardiovascular risk, where it
was kind of like the end of aslope where things flattened out
.
You still got benefit, but nota ton after 7,000, not the case
for the diabetes.
That was more linearrelationship.
The more, the better.
Nikki.
What did they say about thiswas a really interesting one,
(18:59):
pretty significant benefit there.
There were a couple studiesthat they included that looked
at this dementia.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, the dementia one was um.
Like you said earlier was therisk had dropped by 38% with
higher steps.
So this one um was a little bithigher than 7,000.
It was about 8,800 steps, butstill not 10,000.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And decreasing your risk of dementia by 38% just by
walking is kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
It is great, and you know we shouldn't overlook
mental health.
People who had more steps had a22% lower risk of depression
and that again, like diabetes,was a straight line.
So more steps, better mood.
We incorporate, we try toincorporate exercise into all of
our treatment plans for people,for people with depression, and
so this makes a lot of sense tome.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Endorphins make you happy, and happy people don't
kill their husbands, and happypeople don't kill their husbands
, I hope you're happy.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
And then there's falls, especially falls in older
adults, and this deserves alittle bit more of a discussion.
So those older adults walkingaround 8,800 steps a day had a
28% lower fall risk.
Now, if you're someone who'syoung and listening to this and
you haven't considered falls,they can be devastating.
For someone who's elderly, theycan.
(20:21):
Someone being isolated at home,they can fall, and they can be
in danger just by laying on theground.
If they can't get up, they canbreak bones.
It could be really justdevastating altogether.
What they did find, though, isthat for some folks who are over
75, there was a little hint inthe data that says that maybe
too many steps might increasethe risk if they have balance or
(20:45):
frailty issues, and that wasmore of a postulation from their
discussion about why theythought that might happen.
But there was a littleinflection point where, at some
point, too many steps turnthings in a different direction
and maybe increased falls.
So I don't think there'sanything huge to say here.
I think people should be.
If you're at 2,000 steps a dayand you aren't walking as much,
(21:06):
I think you have a lot of roomto improve, but maybe don't go
overboard, is my takeaway, Doyou agree?
Mm-hmm takeaway, Do you agree?
So those were.
We tried to the itemized listthere of all the different
outcomes that they looked at.
What is the big takeaway?
What is the ideal number per se?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I'd say the sweet spots around seven to 8,000
steps a day.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, and that at that spot there's a whole lot of
health benefits and they eitherplateau or max out right around
there.
It seems that for a lot of themgoing higher isn't bad, but the
biggest return goes from goinglow to moderate.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, and most people can work their way to 7,000
steps really just in youreveryday life.
You don't need to get a new gymmembership or buy a treadmill
or anything crazy like that.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, and so you know , in this next part, really we
want to motivate you.
So what can you do this week?
So let's make it real.
Say you take out your phone ormaybe you have a watch.
Say you're averaging about3,000 steps a day.
Set a goal to hit 4,000 or5,000 steps this week, and I
mean realistically, it lookslike about an extra 10 minutes
(22:23):
of walking.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, and an extra 10 minutes of walking.
If we kind of bring like anumber like 4,000 or 5,000 down
to something, that's 10 minutes,it's pretty easy to do.
To do.
You can walk around yourneighborhood, go for a walk
after dinner, park your carfarther when you're at the
grocery store I love a farparked car you do love a far
(22:45):
parked car, which I don't,depending on the situation.
I do love an after dinner walkwe don't do that here, but I
love an after dinner walk yeah,maybe in the suburbs I do love
the only okay we're not citypeople I do love, we can like
(23:11):
because we live in such awalkable city, if we are walking
to dinner I it really makessuch a difference Like, even if
it's like a 10 minute walk backhome, you just feel so much
better, Like there is nothingbad like, or I'm sorry, there's
like nothing worse.
I feel like then going to areally big dinner, probably
eating way more than you wouldotherwise be comfortable with,
(23:33):
and then sitting in a car.
Oh yeah way more than you wouldotherwise be comfortable with.
And then sitting in a car.
Oh yeah, it's like like walkinghome.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
You like stretch out things, get moving oh yeah
things start working unless it'sfrom tom's dim sum, and I'm
like struggling, oh yeah, youwere yeah I shouldn't have had a
diet coke.
No, no, that shouldn't havehappened.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
That was my can't mix bubbles with MSG.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
No, there's gotta be something in there.
Maybe there's an episodebrewing Like there was stuff
brewing in me and MSG X bubblesepisode, but who knows.
But it really does all add up.
And if you do walk a lotalready, that's great.
Um, if not, you can think aboutthis that even a small increase
can really make a difference.
I think this is an open accessstudy, so if anyone's really
(24:18):
curious to look into it, theycan.
But they even showed benefit,like adding a thousand steps at
each interval and see whatbenefit that gets you.
It was really cool.
There's a lot of complicatedhealth topics that we cover on
this show.
We try to distill them and makethem simple.
Eat this, this medicine doesthis, this side effect.
(24:38):
This is all complicated.
This one's simple Move more andyou can take one step at a time
, literally.
Literally one step at a timeand truly, your brain, your
heart, your mood, your futureself will be so proud of you,
and with that I thank you forcoming back to another episode
of your Checkup.
Hopefully you were able tolearn something for yourself, a
(25:00):
loved one or a neighbor.
If you like this, send it tosomeone who you think might like
it.
Share it with a family memberor friend, and you can check us
out on our social media.
We're most active on Threads,the text-based Instagram app.
If you did like anything fromhere, rate and review.
(25:21):
If you don't mind, you justleave a little message on our
Apple podcast or wherever you'relistening, and I'm done
rambling at this point.
So, most importantly, stayhealthy, my friends, until next
time.
I'm Ed Dolesky.
I'm Nicole Ruffo.
Thank you and goodbye, bye,no-transcript for a complete
(26:26):
information tailored to you.
In short, I'm not your doctor,I am not your nurse, and make
sure you go get your own checkupwith your own personal doctor.
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