August 11, 2025 • 41 mins
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Our food choices extend far beyond calories, with recent research showing minimally processed diets outperform ultra-processed diets for weight loss even when nutrient content is identical.
• Ultra-processed foods contain industrial ingredients not found in home kitchens like sweeteners, emulsifiers, and preservatives
• The NOVA classification categorizes foods from unprocessed to ultra-processed based on processing methods
• Signs of ultra-processed foods include long ingredient lists, unpronounceable ingredients, and extended shelf life
• Ultra-processed foods are engineered to be "hyper-palatable," making it difficult to stop eating them
• Plant-based meat alternatives and flavored yogurts often fall into the ultra-processed category despite health claims
• Simple swaps like plain oats instead of flavored packets or homemade dressing instead of bottled options make a difference
• Starting with small, manageable changes like replacing one ultra-processed food at a time is more sustainable
Related Episodes:
Episode 19 Balanced Nutrition
https://www.buzzsprout.com/admin/2346940/episodes/15567190-19-balanced-nutrition-the-basics
Episode 69 Mediterranean Diet
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2346940/episodes/17499203
FDA Red Dye Ban
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2346940/episodes/16465476
Share this episode with someone who might benefit from understanding what's really in their food and how it affects their health.
Production and Content: Edward Delesky, MD & Nicole Aruffo, RN
Artwork: Olivia Pawlowski
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hi, welcome to your checkup.
We are the patient educationpodcast, where we bring
conversations from the doctor'soffice to your ears.
On this podcast, we try tobring medicine closer to its
patients.
I'm Ed Dolesky, a familymedicine doctor in the
Philadelphia area, and I'mNicola Ruffo.
I'm a nurse and we are soexcited you were able to join us
here again today.
(00:35):
If you're listening to thisepisode, you will probably find
it relatable to.
We numbered our episodesrecently to be able to better
reference them, becausesometimes they do connect with
other episodes, actually a lotof times, and so this episode
today, when we get to it aboutultra processed foods, is going
to be connected to episodes 17through 23 and several other
(01:00):
episodes.
But if you're on a weight lossjourney, that's how this is kind
of relatable to you and I justwanted to include that here in
the beginning.
But before we get too far, youknow we have to do our little
opener here.
Um, something I will neverunderstand is the formation of a
line, the mechanics of forminga line at really any
(01:22):
establishment, but, from what wesaw, an ice cream place.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, well, it's forming a line when there are
the opportunity, like whenthere's the opportunity for
multiple different lines.
I think there's like fourwindows at the place we like to
get ice cream at the beach anddepending.
I don't know like how thishappens, but usually people I
(01:47):
don't know why they like flockto making one line, usually
either at the first window orright in the middle, and then
line in front of a window withno people in it, which I think
(02:07):
is how it should be.
Just have like four shorterlines rather than one really
long line.
And then people are like wait,is this a line?
Does this one not have a line?
Can I go here?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
people are all confused yeah, you know, I do, I
, and I like I don't know whenit starts or how it manages,
because the people working arebehind the like this, like
little glass wall or plexiglass,plexiglass, I don't know.
That was hard to say.
They have no control over, likehow it forms outside.
(02:39):
It doesn't make any sense.
And then you get all thesepeople that there's like a
breeding ground for resentment,because all of the people who
chose to stand in this one linehave just like, abided by what
was done before them when yeah,they're followers but they have
four different line stanchions.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Well, that's what we did the other night.
We went, there was one longline right in front of the first
one.
The other three windows had noline or like one person behind
it.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So we went up to the one with like no one walked
right up.
Got our ice cream and we'redone and there were like 20
people there before us, but likeI don't care, you're waiting in
this big long line.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Here's the thing, though they had four different
of those like chains andstanchions.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Indicating that people should go in different
lines.
They're trying to make it easieron people and they don't listen
no, this is great, and this isnot isolated to ice cream places
.
When my car got towed, this waslike much before we lived
together.
When my car got towed, therewas one line to like process the
ticket and then everyone had toleave and go to their car and
get the registration and comeback and get in the second line
(03:46):
to pay the ticket after you hadyour registration.
After that everyone went backinto the original line and like
every 10 minutes the line justkept doubling.
So I went and asked I was likeare you waiting in this?
And it turns out there was asecond line.
So I think this is a huge groupthink thing.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, I don't know if the group thinks, though.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
So no, the group is not thinking.
I'm not sure the group isthinking in these moments.
It's.
But then you know, this woman,like this woman next to us back
to the ice cream, she seemedupset, like someone, this woman
next to us back to the ice cream, she seemed upset.
Someone went and was like I'lltake the next customer, and
someone went in front of her ina different line and she seemed
flummoxed.
Did you see that?
(04:35):
Yeah, but you should have justwent to where there was no line
in the first place.
Babe, you know?
Yeah, that's the answer.
Let us know if you've ever hadan experience like this or if
you've thought about the, themechanisms of line formation in
our society.
This is important, don't evenget me started.
(04:58):
When there's like onlineordering and then in person as
well, like when do you?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
oh yeah, like if you are just going there to pick
something up, versus okay,that's another thing at the one
place where we like to getsandwiches, where if you, if
they're really bit, it dependssometimes, like when they get
really busy, they put out likethe number thing to take yep,
yep so if you called ahead andordered something and you're
only there to pick it up and pay, you still have to pick.
(05:30):
They make you still pick anumber and like wait until they
call your number to just be likehi, like I'm nicole, I'm here
for my order right when reallythe thought of ordering ahead is
that you just go there, pick itup and leave.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Right, what do you do Like?
I need this number to approachthese people who are working
here.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
They should really.
It would be so much moreefficient.
Maybe I should tell them thisnext time.
I'm in.
It would be so much moreefficient if they had like, I
mean, I feel like every place inPhilly I mean not place in
philly, I mean not just inphilly, like everywhere has like
a pickup counter.
I feel like that place shoulddo that.
And then they just like put thename on it.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Well, I guess that would require you to pay ahead
of time that would require aheadof time payment yeah and maybe
this is why yeah I don't thinkthey have a mechanism or they
have like a separate.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It gets like very busy in there yeah or they have
a second person with, like apickup situation, taking payment
oh, like a Chick-fil-a yeahthat's the first one that comes
to mind.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
People in the they're taking orders, they're walking
up the line.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I'm gonna have to tell them how to run their biz.
What like?
What's that guy with a tv show?
Oh um the bar rescue orwhatever mythbusters no, I
forget foster's home forimaginary friends what no?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
it's a bar rescue is that what it?
The guy goes in and explainshow to run a restaurant.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, bar Rescue.
Who is that guy?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Oh, I have no idea his name.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Or no.
Gordon Ramsay, is that the guy?
Not on Bar Rescue, but he did.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
No, that's the guy from Hell's Kitchen.
He yells at people.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I know, but didn't he also?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And he's a chef.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
He's a good one too.
I hear Kitchen nightmares.
Is that what it is?
Gordon Ramsay is the one thatyells at people.
I think it's him.
He goes into restaurants andstuff and they.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
But not children.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Talk about how.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
What he doesn't yell at children.
I think there are some TV showswhere he's on, but he's
actually kind to the children.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, well, we're talking about adults here how
was I supposed to?
Know kitchen nightmares hell'skitchen I need to be whoever
that person is on that showabout this place that we go to
at the beach to make them runmore efficiently yeah, I think
so they will probably get morebusiness, because there's been
(08:07):
times where we walked in thereand I'm like, okay, I don't want
to sandwich this bad yeah, andthen we leave, and then we leave
.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, how many people do that?
Yeah, people of this generation, we're losing patience.
I saw this one post.
It was like so weird.
It was like I don't know thehow they actually did this, and
this isn't on our thing, but, um, it was like this graph of like
younger people have decreasingamounts of courtesy and patience
(08:38):
and I'm like how is anyone andit decreased amounts of
tolerability for things and I'mlike how is any of this being
measured?
You could have just put likearrows on this graph.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I mean, yeah, that's how all internet science is.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Arrows on graph.
Arrows on graph.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Oh, here we go.
So we had an enjoyable dinner.
I'm switching up here.
We went to Shea Frites.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I think it's Shea Frite.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Shea Frite, I think so they were very attentive.
A Stephen Starr restaurant, butin Atlantic City, and I got the
steak.
It was delicious, it was mediumand you got the what.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I got the salmon, it was fine.
The whole um concept, I feellike this is he built a whole
idea on the back of unlimitedfries, which, like I love, but
it's like a prefix menu, so soyou get a salad which actually
(09:44):
was very good it was a delicioussalad vinaigrette or something
like so simple, but it was sogood.
And then there are like fourappetizer, appetizer type things
that you can pick from, andthen four main dishes it's like
steak, salmon, lobster and likesomething else and it's just
your meat and then a bunch offries and that's the whole
(10:06):
quote-unquote concept of therestaurant, which that's like
another tangent.
I could go on, um, but yeah, itwas good, the vibes were cool
inside the restaurant, the dirtymartini was excellent and I
would go back just for that, Ithink.
(10:27):
I think if you like sit at thebar, had a drink, ordered some
fries which were also very goodand then there's like an outside
area, not like part of therestaurant, just like at the
hotel that it's at.
So that was cool.
Although we didn't comeprepared, because it was like
really windy and a little chillythere was no way to predict
(10:47):
that.
Maybe next time we'll bringanother layer and walking out.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Those colors in the sky were so vibrant over the
ocean.
It was really pretty yeah, itwas really pretty.
I wasn't expecting that.
And using the new camera Idon't know if we've mentioned
the new camera yet.
Um, really fun.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I love that thing oh yeah, I just got a little like
kodak point and shoot camera.
It was like on sale for primeday I love it.
I'm obsessed it takes prettygood pictures it does.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
But this it threw me off because the display itself
like kind of makes it a littlegrainy.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, but then, once it's on your phone, you're like
whoa a lot better.
Wow, I got it mainly for ourhoneymoon to take like really
cool pictures when we're there,um, and not have to like lug
around something big.
It's like very small.
But that's great yeah, I lovedit.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I've been using it been using it a ton um the.
So the dinner was great.
I was happy with that.
Not the best meal we've everhad, but you, we had a great
time that night.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, we did.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And I think maybe it was like the being out factor,
you know, like getting dressedup.
You looked amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I had to wear a new dress that I got, that I haven't
got to worn yet.
Yeah To worn yet To wear yet,oh, my God, do I know words.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I don't know Stress-free best man.
You could say that easy.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Again.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I can't.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
We haven't talked about Trent.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
No, we haven't, Is that?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
going to be?
For how long has this pre-show?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
been 12 minutes.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Should we save it for another episode?
We can do a Trent recap, sureOkay.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, we could do that.
That sounds good, I like that.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
All right.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, so let's dive in then.
Okay, All right.
All right.
So what are we going to talkabout today, Nick?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Today we're talking about ultra-processed foods.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
What if I told you that two people could follow the
same healthy eating guideline,but one eats mostly fresh,
minimally processed foods andthe other eats mostly packaged,
ultra-processed foods?
Would you expect their weightto be the same or different?
So it turns out.
(12:58):
We are going to briefly review,or introduce the idea, that
there was a study that came outrecently.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And we mentioned this in I forget what episode.
Yeah, we briefly talked aboutthis in episode 22, where we
kind of talked about caloriedeficits, weight loss,
metabolism, those sorts ofthings, but now we'll just dive
deeper into it.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Metabolism those sorts of things, but now we'll
just dive deeper into it.
Yeah, so it's on the back ofthis UK-based trial that came
out very, very recently, and inprior episodes we really dived
deep into the study.
Today, I think it's morefruitful if we define a little
bit more about ultra-processedfoods and talk about them a
little bit more.
But the study itself had about55 adults who were overweight or
(13:43):
had obesity.
It was kind of small 55 is nota lot.
Everyone followed the UK'seating well guideline, but the
only difference was one groupate minimally processed food and
the other ate ultra processedfood, and both groups lost
weight.
But the minimally processedgroup lost what they say is
(14:04):
twice as much weight, but it waslike 2% of their total body
weight versus 1%.
So that's important.
You have to like.
I mean, is that a whole lot?
I don't know.
You decide and they lost morebody fat.
But it's this study that getsus talking about what ultra
processed food is and what itreally means and why it matters
(14:25):
for health, before we get toofar into the fun stuff.
This episode combinesinformation from that trial,
which was published in NatureMedicine in 2025, and other
educational materials based onguidance from the American Heart
Association and otherpeer-reviewed research.
Okay, nikki, can you take usthrough what ultra-processed
(14:47):
foods are?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yes, ultra-processed foods are factory-made products
that are using ingredients, moreso uncommon.
Just that you would have inyour kitchen.
So like industrial sweeteners.
Colorings would have in yourkitchen.
So like industrial sweetenerscolorings, flavorings,
emulsifiers lots of steps thatthe food, or whatever, has to go
through before it's in apackage and in your store
totally um the.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
There is a classification of food that is
used.
It's called the NOVAclassification.
That's N-O-V-A.
It's widespread.
Everyone's heard of the foodpyramid.
That was one we grew up on.
Other people in their adulthoodthey're listening to this.
But the NOVA classificationbreaks down food into four
(15:37):
categories and those categoriesbeing unprocessed or minimally
processed.
This includes things likefruits, veggies, plain yogurt,
eggs, nuts, fresh meat and fish.
Number two processed culinaryingredients.
So there's no doubt like thesethings were made to cook in oil,
(16:01):
butter, sugar and salt.
Three is a brand of processedfoods, which can include things
like cheese, canned beans withsalt, simple whole grain bread.
And four is the ultra processedfoods.
You know a lot processed foods.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
You know a lot packaged snacks, instant noodles
, sweetened drinks processedmeats and actually many frozen
entrees, oh yeah basicallyanything that's like in a
package, if it's somethingfrozen that you're heating up
very processed.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, and the implication of the study, and we
didn't dive into it a whole lot.
It's an open access study foranyone who's really interested.
They were implying that thepeople in the two groups ate the
same nutritional quality Likethey ate the same amount of
protein, carbs, fats and theytried to imbue that the only
(17:01):
difference was the processingand show that these differences
happen.
So there's a huge reason thatthis matters.
It's because diets high inultra-processed foods have some
pretty significant links toweight gain themselves, type 2
diabetes, heart disease andincreased risk of early death.
(17:22):
And this evidence is a littletricky, though, because it comes
from observational studieswhich are just big population
trends of people, very shorttrials like the one that just
came out.
It lasted about eight weekswhen people were in each arm of
the treatment, because I thinkpeople did both.
So very short trials.
(17:42):
And while they're short, theydo show that people eat more
calories and gain weight onultra-processed foods compared
to minimally processed foods.
But I think there's a lot ofburden of scientific proof there
that I don't think everyone'sjumping at this.
I mean the media is.
I've seen lots of things onlinesaying this study talked about
(18:03):
ultra processed foods, like NPRon threads is throwing it out
and like NBC news is covering it.
It was like a tiny study, butthat's because they're hard to
do, like food studies arehappened most extensively when
people are like locked in ahospital wing and fed a certain
diet and measured in the entiretime.
(18:24):
How, like inconvenient, likewould you sign up for a study
like that?
Yeah, maybe, maybe, but like Imean like the logistics of that,
like you have to like take offfrom work, you have family,
friends, like how do you evenmake that happen?
So, yeah, you're getting intosmall people and if you don't
have that direct comparison,it's going to be from people
(18:47):
from observational studies.
And the big takeaway from thisnew study is that, like we said,
even when ultra processed foodsmeet nutrient guidelines like
these were within the UK'sguidelines of what food should
be like Minimally processed foodstill leads to more fat loss.
(19:10):
All right, well, thanks fortolerating my little rant with
me about there.
Can you take us through beingour culinary expert on this show
?
Oh my gosh.
Well, it's true, can you takeus through how to spot ultra
processed foods for your average?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
person.
Yeah, I can.
The first one is at theingredient list on an ultra
processed food will have a lotof ingredients maybe upwards of
like 20 on the back of theingredient label that have
things like artificialsweeteners.
You'll see things like flavorenhancers, thickeners,
(19:47):
preservatives, um.
One that I think is pretty likea pretty stark difference is uh
, like different kinds of peanutbutters or like a skippy or I
don't know what's another GIF onthe back of their label will
have all kinds of things thatyou can't really pronounce,
(20:08):
which is another kind of clue.
Like, if you're looking atsomething and you have no idea
what it is or you can'tpronounce it, it's something
ultra processed.
So the peanut butter on the backof something like a Skippy will
have a long ingredient list,but then, like we usually buy
the one at like trader joe's orcostco has a good one, um, where
, like, the ingredients are justpeanuts and salt right so
(20:31):
that's still something processedlike it's in a package, but it
doesn't have crap in it yeah,maybe it doesn't like reach that
ultra processed level, maybegrade two or three on the nova
people like to not get the kindsof peanut butters that are only
peanuts because of like the oiland stirring it, but if you
(20:51):
just store it upside down inyour pantry until you're ready
to eat it, it makes it reallyeasy to mix up and then just
keep it in your fridge and itlike stays solid and doesn't
separate.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
I really do think people come here for this stuff
too.
Yeah, specifically.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I think also it might be Wegmans or maybe Whole Foods
.
I don't know if they still doit, but you can like I actually
it might not be either of thosestores, so don't quote me on
there, but you can they havethis entire thing.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
They have a thing where you can like grind up the
peanuts and then it gives youpeanut butter or almond butter
or whatever kind of nut butter.
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, this goes in the theme of I really do think
that a lot of health andmedicine starts in the grocery
store oh yeah truly yeah, like,even in like peanut butter I
forget what the ingredient isthat's like toxic to dogs, so
like, why do you want to eatthat?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
right?
No, I think a lot of it.
I think we can afford to have alittle bit of a chat about that
once we're done spotting ultraprocessed foods.
But, um, you're right, whywould you what?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
are some other things you can look at.
Next one yeah, I'll go on awhole diatribe about the length
of ingredients.
Well then, also like the saladdressing too.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
That's why we just make our own salad dressing that
have five simple things in it.
Yeah, and it tastes better thanthe stuff that you buy at the
store.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
It does you know, yep .
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Anyway, anyway, okay.
So we have a long ingredientlist.
Second one are things on thepackaging that say like ready to
eat or instant, or like a justadd water kind of situation.
Mm-hmm, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Could be a sign.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Could be a sign.
If something is instantly ready, it's.
There's no reason.
Like mashed potatoes should notbe instantly ready.
Yeah, you know, yep, boil apotato, that'll taste better.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
It will.
It's a little more adventuroustoo.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, adventurous.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
It is.
It's more adventurous.
What else you got?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
The third thing is the quality of the ingredients.
So you'll see things likeactually I should say lower
quality of ingredients, sothings that are added sugars,
refined oils and refinedstarches and the last one kind
of goes along with the secondone, so just the convenience
(23:26):
factor of it all.
So, unfortunately, if somethingis very cheap or inexpensive,
it is going to be more processedand bad for you.
Um, the long shelf life is alsoanother giveaway that
something's ultra processed.
Um, I talked about this in thered food diet episode, which was
42, kind of using thecomparison of preservatives and
(23:49):
food.
So like, if you bake a cake athome, the shelf life of you
baking a cake.
It's not going to last forweeks and weeks and weeks in
your pantry, like if you justbought a packaged cake from the
store.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, compared to a Costco cake that can
unfortunately last for five dayswhile I pick on it after a
graduation party, which was kindof disturbing to me, that that
was fine.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, it was only disturbing because of like the
cream in it.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Oh, OK, great, but you mentioned then the quick
prep and then the what?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And the quick prep with you know, going along with
like ready to eat instant, thosesorts of things.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I have a couple of points that are off the outline
here to raise.
It's so unfortunate thatoftentimes the processed foods
and ultra processed foods aremore affordable.
So I was having thisconversation with this person on
threads and they were talkingabout how they were pretty much
priced out of healthy foods andso they had to eat processed
foods but in more modestportions, which I suppose is a
(24:58):
way to do it when you have to.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
No one said that this is affordable, cause we I know
we were watching somedocumentary and the one family
was basically like oh yeah, likethis food is great, because we
I know we were watching somedocumentary and the one family
was basically like, oh yeah,like this food is great and I
enjoy cooking it and I likeeating it, but like in reality,
we just can't afford it yeah,it's a very real thing.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
It's very expensive.
These days, everything is veryexpensive and then at the same,
I would invite people to thinkabout what you spend other money
on.
And then I see the argument oflike it's an investment in your
health and it's a long termthing, like you'll be able to do
more and live longer and havefewer health expenses later on
(25:41):
if you invest in this.
Or like if you're going to buysomething that's not as healthy
for you and you repurpose thatand invest it in like healthier
food, can you get by fair?
it's a tough situation yeah oneother thing is they make this
stuff hyper palatable.
It is, it tastes, it's likeadvanced yeah, they.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
It's like engineered to make you want like, crave it,
yeah, and want more of it,which is messed up.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
It's messed up and maybe if you're listening to
this like and hope it'svalidating that you there's a
reason you can't put the bagdown.
Yeah, it was built to do that.
There's a a reason I can't put.
I'll put myself on the line.
There's a reason I can't putthe sour cream and onion chips
down.
If I'm at the store and I'mdriving in the car and I haven't
(26:35):
eaten, I open the bag and I am.
There is a 75% chance Ifinished the entire family sized
bag and if there's a reason, itis designed to do that.
So be kind to yourself.
But sometimes, like we said,it's all about what's in the
grocery store is where all ofthis starts.
So if you can't trust yourselfbecause of what's happening to
(27:00):
you, maybe don't buy it.
If you can At least thosesnacks.
Maybe don't buy it if you canAt least those snacks.
So I'm going to give us someeveryday examples of some
ultra-processed foods and we'vetalked about them before but
some other ones to think about.
To easily identify Soda, easilyidentifiable ultra-processed
(27:22):
food.
Perhaps we'll do a wholeepisode on this.
I feel like there's a strongcommunity of people out there
who are very against diet drinks.
But for someone who hasoutright metabolic syndrome,
trouble with diabetes, troublewith weight.
I think in a harm reduction way, diet soda is better for that
(27:42):
person than a regular soda.
Don sue me.
Packaged cookies, instantnoodles, hot dogs some people
limit their hot dog intake toonce a year frozen dinners and
sweetened cereals are allexamples of ultra processed
foods.
Can you take us through somethings that may be sometimes
(28:05):
ultra processed but like itcould depend and it's not 100
percent.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah.
So things like some yogurts, ormostly the ones that are like
flavored, may have someadditional additives in their
protein bars.
I mean, there's a wholespectrum of protein bars where
you could go down, but at theend of the day it is something
(28:30):
that's processed.
Whether or not it's ultraprocessed, I think, just depends
.
I think some are worse thanothers.
And then plant based meats areanother one, because I mean, at
the end of the day, day likethey're adding stuff into it to
make it like shaped like aburger and may plus or minus
(28:52):
maybe taste like a burger.
So that's something that can beultra processed.
Yeah right, like your blackbeans and corn and, you know,
mushrooms and whatever likeshouldn't taste like a burger.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Right, and that's where the tough like yeah Right,
like you would think it'shealthier, but is there?
Is there more to it?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
And I think like that class of food.
It's probably healthier to havethe single ingredient of ground
beef with, like some onion andseasoning yeah, maybe maybe it
depends how you look at it Ithink it depends, yeah, so
there's that.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
And then there's foods that are clearly like, not
ultra processed fresh or frozenproduce can't miss.
Plain dairy eggs, whole grainsand canned beans with simple
ingredients Can't miss there.
Those are simple processed orjust not ultra-processed foods
that you can't miss.
(29:54):
And then, just to list a couplehealth implications many
ultra-processed foods are highin sugar, salt, unhealthy fats,
refined starch and they're lowin fiber.
Time and time again, these arefound to be implicated in high
blood pressure, blood sugar andcholesterol, and, honestly, the
higher ultra-processed foodintake is consistently
(30:15):
associated with worsecardiometabolic outcomes, and so
we just introduced a topic here.
The same thing is that not allultra-processed foods are
equally bad.
Like we talked about sprucingup a burger to make it look like
a burger, and like putting abow on it and putting a sign
next to it and said burger asopposed to like a package of
(30:38):
ultra-processed cookies that arehyper-palatable.
So there is a little bit ofwiggle room here, but it's just
some stuff to think about.
So we have some frequentlyasked questions on deck for you.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Here Are all packaged foods, ultra processed?
No, not all packaged foods.
So things that are moreminimally processed would be
like frozen fruits or frozenvegetables, plain oats, um, or
like just canned beans with salt.
So things that really are againlooking back at that ingredient
(31:13):
list are just like oneingredient, or like beans and
salt, peanuts and salt, thingslike that yeah, what about whole
grain packaged bread or cereals?
so again, some are, but some arenot.
Ultra processed.
If the ingredient list is shortagain and free of any kind of
(31:34):
like weird additives and likethings that you can't pronounce,
like if you're buying I don'tknow, like white wonder bread,
that's probably going to have alonger list of ingredients than
if you just bought like a loafof sourdough from the bakery
section and there are like fouringredients.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, right, totally.
Is it okay to eat ultraprocessed foods sometimes?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, I mean I think it's a little bit hard to avoid.
An occasional intake is common.
I would say the goal isprobably to make minimally
processed foods, or notprocessed foods, the basis of
your diet most of the time, tokind of support all those other
health factors like your heartand metabolic health and then
(32:27):
sprinkle in somethingultra-processed.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
So in this next portion, we're going to bring it
back to the study a little bitand talk about the key takeaway
from this trial that was justrecently published.
They both used minimallyprocessed foods and
ultra-processed foods to meetthe dietary guidelines, and they
both led to weight loss.
Minimally processed foods ledto more fat loss and better
control of cravings, and whatthey think is that the
(32:52):
processing itself may matter forweight and metabolic health
beyond calories and nutrients,which introduces a very
interesting possibility here,and so the study supports that,
aiming for mostly minimallyprocessed foods even if the
ultra processed food optionlooks healthier on paper may be
(33:13):
better, and so when you'rethinking about making those
changes, we're going to talkhere about some simple changes
you can make at home to get alittle bit better, but maybe not
even perfect.
So what things can we do?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
So we kind of talked about a couple of these sorts of
things throughout the episodes.
But one would be again readingthe ingredient list, going
toward things that are oneingredient or just a few
ingredients versus a whole listof things.
If you can pronounce everythingthat's in the ingredient list,
(33:51):
that's a good sign.
If you can't, maybe, stay awayfrom it, building your meals
around the minimally processedfoods or not processed foods at
all or not processed foods atall, Like maybe you make a salad
(34:14):
where, like, every ingredientis just one ingredient and then
you're going to make your owndressing and get rid of that
like bottle of craft Italiandressing that's in your fridge
that's full of crap and canolaoil.
This is like one of my things.
I have a few food type thingsthat I will die on the hill for,
and one of them is that oursalad dressing is killing us.
Make your own salad dressing,okay.
(34:36):
There's no reason.
We have salad dressing sittingon the counter right now.
It's just like five things, sosimple.
But all these other ones it'slike why do I have to
refrigerate this after I open it?
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Well, the xanthan gum needs to be hugged in a crisp
37 degree refrigerator.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
It's so easy to make salad dressing.
Just get rid of your saladdressing in your fridge.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
And you can find how to make your own salad dressing
in episode 69, the MediterraneanDiet.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, it's so easy.
Um, okay, I'll get off my diet.
I feel like I could talk aboutthis for a long time, like I
feel like in another life Iwould be a dietitian and just
talk about food all day, umswapping things out, so like
water for soda.
(35:25):
I know that's a hard one, so itis also killing you is there
like a not?
To be dramatic like a bridgeyeah, you could do like a
seltzer or like a poppy, or whatare the other ones, olipop,
there's a bunch of other whatare those?
um, they market them as likehealthy sodas.
(35:46):
Um, and it's basically, I guessit's soda esque yeah they have
all different flavors and theyhave ones that are kind of like
mimicking, like a dr pepper or aroot beer.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
So if, like, you need that fix, and you're trying to
cut back oftentimes they're onlylike a couple calories too.
Yeah, like far less, like 25calories, something under the
order of a hundred, when youraverage like soda is like 140,
120, something like that.
So you're making huge winsthere and you still get that
(36:23):
type of flavoring.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
The soda one's hard, I feel like.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
A lot of people have a tough time cutting with soda.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
The best thing my mom ever did for us was not let us
drink soda, because none of ushave developed a taste for it.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, it's a hard one .
It's a really really hard one.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Um, using like plain oats instead of the instant
oatmeal packets is one, eventhough I know you know that
brown sugar cinnamon one isreally good, but just get
regular oats and if you need tosweeten it up, just have brown
sugar and cinnamon that youprobably already have yeah um
plain yogurt versus what I like,this yogurt one oh yeah, plain
(37:02):
yogurt versus, um, like reallylike a flavored one, or ones
with fruit in them, which theykind of skeeved me out.
The ones with like fruit in thebottom, yeah, you can like, add
your own fruit yeah, that's whatI've been doing.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Your own fruit building my own yogurt, adding
my granola.
I want it a little sweeter.
I put my little honey on there.
I want my blackberries in there.
I put my blackberries in thereand it's delicious, instead of
buying the one that already hasit in it, and this one's like
120 calories.
It's the Oikos Oikos Pro.
It's like $100, $120 on thecalories and like loads of
(37:36):
protein.
It's a huge win.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Another thing you could do.
I know fruits and veggies canbe very expensive.
We just bought a lot today thatwas probably really expensive.
So you can use like frozenfruits and frozen veggies for
convenience If you have to.
So ideally, ones that you knoware are just like the broccoli,
florets or whatever, not onesthat are kind of like made with
(38:05):
a lot of sauces.
The freezing I think Imentioned this before like
freezing a vegetable or freezinga food changes like the
structure of the fiber in it, sothere's not as much fiber in it
.
But if you're not reallyworried about that, I don't know
why that's also something Ilike hang up on.
I don't know why that's alsosomething.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
I like hang up on.
And if you are worried abouthow much fiber you should get in
your diet, we have a basicbalanced nutrition episode,
episode 19.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
We do, and then keeping minimally processed
snacks ready.
So again, fruit plain popcorn.
You can make your own popcorn,which is another good way to
which we do.
But then you can also likecontrol what's in it and you can
use like a higher qualitysingle origin olive oil, or like
(38:55):
just like a pad of butter and,like you know, that's just the
kernel and this butter.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
We're pulling the ripcord, getting the engine
going.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, getting the engine going, yeah, and starting
small, I think, probably likereplacing one thing a day and
going from there is morerealistic than just overhauling
your entire diet overnight,which is not realistic at all.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
it's not, it's not at all.
I and you're totally right,because this this falls in the
line of like any sort ofbehavior change that people try
to do, and I would say we talkedabout it's Mediterranean try to
incorporate fish two times aweek.
So maybe you just go in yourpantry and take a look around,
see what's in there and then tryto make one of these swaps the
(39:43):
next time you go to the grocerystore, because it truly is, for
it's well known, this is goingto be helping your health in the
long run get rid of your saladdressing yeah, you do not like
salad dressing.
I don't, okay.
Well, thank you for coming backto another episode of your
checkup.
Hopefully you were able tolearn something for yourself, a
(40:06):
loved one or a neighbor.
You could find us on Instagram.
You could follow us on threads,which is where we are most
active.
You could send us an emailyourcheckuppod at gmailcom and,
most importantly, we lookforward to having you come back
again.
Feel free to share this episodewith someone if you learned
something, but, moreover, untilnext time, stay healthy, my
(40:29):
friends.
I'm Ed Dolesky.
I'm Nicole Rufo.
Thank you, goodbye, bye.
This information may provide abrief overview of diagnosis,
treatment and medications.
It's not exhaustive and is atool to help you understand
potential options about yourhealth.
It doesn't cover all detailsabout conditions, treatments or
(40:50):
medications for a specificperson.
This is not medical advice oran attempt to substitute medical
advice.
You should contact a healthcareprovider for personalized
guidance based on your uniquecircumstances.
We explicitly disclaim anyliability relating to the
information given or its use.
This content doesn't endorseany treatments or medications
for a specific patient.
Always talk to your healthcareprovider for complete
(41:12):
information tailored to you.
In short, I'm not your doctor,I am not your nurse, and make
sure you go get your own checkupwith your own personal doctor.
Hi, welcome to your checkup.
We are the patient educationpodcast, where we bring
conversations from the doctor'soffice to your ears.
On this podcast, we try tobring medicine closer to its
patients.
I'm Ed Dolesky, a familymedicine doctor in the
Philadelphia area, and I'mNicola Ruffo.
I'm a nurse and we are soexcited you were able to join us
here again today.
(00:35):
If you're listening to thisepisode, you will probably find
it relatable to.
We numbered our episodesrecently to be able to better
reference them, becausesometimes they do connect with
other episodes, actually a lotof times, and so this episode
today, when we get to it aboutultra processed foods, is going
to be connected to episodes 17through 23 and several other
(01:00):
episodes.
But if you're on a weight lossjourney, that's how this is kind
of relatable to you and I justwanted to include that here in
the beginning.
But before we get too far, youknow we have to do our little
opener here.
Um, something I will neverunderstand is the formation of a
line, the mechanics of forminga line at really any
(01:22):
establishment, but, from what wesaw, an ice cream place.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, well, it's forming a line when there are
the opportunity, like whenthere's the opportunity for
multiple different lines.
I think there's like fourwindows at the place we like to
get ice cream at the beach anddepending.
I don't know like how thishappens, but usually people I
(01:47):
don't know why they like flockto making one line, usually
either at the first window orright in the middle, and then
line in front of a window withno people in it, which I think
(02:07):
is how it should be.
Just have like four shorterlines rather than one really
long line.
And then people are like wait,is this a line?
Does this one not have a line?
Can I go here?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
people are all confused yeah, you know, I do, I
, and I like I don't know whenit starts or how it manages,
because the people working arebehind the like this, like
little glass wall or plexiglass,plexiglass, I don't know.
That was hard to say.
They have no control over, likehow it forms outside.
(02:39):
It doesn't make any sense.
And then you get all thesepeople that there's like a
breeding ground for resentment,because all of the people who
chose to stand in this one linehave just like, abided by what
was done before them when yeah,they're followers but they have
four different line stanchions.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Well, that's what we did the other night.
We went, there was one longline right in front of the first
one.
The other three windows had noline or like one person behind
it.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So we went up to the one with like no one walked
right up.
Got our ice cream and we'redone and there were like 20
people there before us, but likeI don't care, you're waiting in
this big long line.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Here's the thing, though they had four different
of those like chains andstanchions.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Indicating that people should go in different
lines.
They're trying to make it easieron people and they don't listen
no, this is great, and this isnot isolated to ice cream places
.
When my car got towed, this waslike much before we lived
together.
When my car got towed, therewas one line to like process the
ticket and then everyone had toleave and go to their car and
get the registration and comeback and get in the second line
(03:46):
to pay the ticket after you hadyour registration.
After that everyone went backinto the original line and like
every 10 minutes the line justkept doubling.
So I went and asked I was likeare you waiting in this?
And it turns out there was asecond line.
So I think this is a huge groupthink thing.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, I don't know if the group thinks, though.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
So no, the group is not thinking.
I'm not sure the group isthinking in these moments.
It's.
But then you know, this woman,like this woman next to us back
to the ice cream, she seemedupset, like someone, this woman
next to us back to the ice cream, she seemed upset.
Someone went and was like I'lltake the next customer, and
someone went in front of her ina different line and she seemed
flummoxed.
Did you see that?
(04:35):
Yeah, but you should have justwent to where there was no line
in the first place.
Babe, you know?
Yeah, that's the answer.
Let us know if you've ever hadan experience like this or if
you've thought about the, themechanisms of line formation in
our society.
This is important, don't evenget me started.
(04:58):
When there's like onlineordering and then in person as
well, like when do you?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
oh yeah, like if you are just going there to pick
something up, versus okay,that's another thing at the one
place where we like to getsandwiches, where if you, if
they're really bit, it dependssometimes, like when they get
really busy, they put out likethe number thing to take yep,
yep so if you called ahead andordered something and you're
only there to pick it up and pay, you still have to pick.
(05:30):
They make you still pick anumber and like wait until they
call your number to just be likehi, like I'm nicole, I'm here
for my order right when reallythe thought of ordering ahead is
that you just go there, pick itup and leave.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Right, what do you do Like?
I need this number to approachthese people who are working
here.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
They should really.
It would be so much moreefficient.
Maybe I should tell them thisnext time.
I'm in.
It would be so much moreefficient if they had like, I
mean, I feel like every place inPhilly I mean not place in
philly, I mean not just inphilly, like everywhere has like
a pickup counter.
I feel like that place shoulddo that.
And then they just like put thename on it.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Well, I guess that would require you to pay ahead
of time that would require aheadof time payment yeah and maybe
this is why yeah I don't thinkthey have a mechanism or they
have like a separate.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It gets like very busy in there yeah or they have
a second person with, like apickup situation, taking payment
oh, like a Chick-fil-a yeahthat's the first one that comes
to mind.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
People in the they're taking orders, they're walking
up the line.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I'm gonna have to tell them how to run their biz.
What like?
What's that guy with a tv show?
Oh um the bar rescue orwhatever mythbusters no, I
forget foster's home forimaginary friends what no?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
it's a bar rescue is that what it?
The guy goes in and explainshow to run a restaurant.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, bar Rescue.
Who is that guy?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Oh, I have no idea his name.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Or no.
Gordon Ramsay, is that the guy?
Not on Bar Rescue, but he did.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
No, that's the guy from Hell's Kitchen.
He yells at people.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I know, but didn't he also?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And he's a chef.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
He's a good one too.
I hear Kitchen nightmares.
Is that what it is?
Gordon Ramsay is the one thatyells at people.
I think it's him.
He goes into restaurants andstuff and they.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
But not children.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Talk about how.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
What he doesn't yell at children.
I think there are some TV showswhere he's on, but he's
actually kind to the children.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, well, we're talking about adults here how
was I supposed to?
Know kitchen nightmares hell'skitchen I need to be whoever
that person is on that showabout this place that we go to
at the beach to make them runmore efficiently yeah, I think
so they will probably get morebusiness, because there's been
(08:07):
times where we walked in thereand I'm like, okay, I don't want
to sandwich this bad yeah, andthen we leave, and then we leave
.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, how many people do that?
Yeah, people of this generation, we're losing patience.
I saw this one post.
It was like so weird.
It was like I don't know thehow they actually did this, and
this isn't on our thing, but, um, it was like this graph of like
younger people have decreasingamounts of courtesy and patience
(08:38):
and I'm like how is anyone andit decreased amounts of
tolerability for things and I'mlike how is any of this being
measured?
You could have just put likearrows on this graph.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I mean, yeah, that's how all internet science is.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Arrows on graph.
Arrows on graph.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Oh, here we go.
So we had an enjoyable dinner.
I'm switching up here.
We went to Shea Frites.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I think it's Shea Frite.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Shea Frite, I think so they were very attentive.
A Stephen Starr restaurant, butin Atlantic City, and I got the
steak.
It was delicious, it was mediumand you got the what.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I got the salmon, it was fine.
The whole um concept, I feellike this is he built a whole
idea on the back of unlimitedfries, which, like I love, but
it's like a prefix menu, so soyou get a salad which actually
(09:44):
was very good it was a delicioussalad vinaigrette or something
like so simple, but it was sogood.
And then there are like fourappetizer, appetizer type things
that you can pick from, andthen four main dishes it's like
steak, salmon, lobster and likesomething else and it's just
your meat and then a bunch offries and that's the whole
(10:06):
quote-unquote concept of therestaurant, which that's like
another tangent.
I could go on, um, but yeah, itwas good, the vibes were cool
inside the restaurant, the dirtymartini was excellent and I
would go back just for that, Ithink.
(10:27):
I think if you like sit at thebar, had a drink, ordered some
fries which were also very goodand then there's like an outside
area, not like part of therestaurant, just like at the
hotel that it's at.
So that was cool.
Although we didn't comeprepared, because it was like
really windy and a little chillythere was no way to predict
(10:47):
that.
Maybe next time we'll bringanother layer and walking out.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Those colors in the sky were so vibrant over the
ocean.
It was really pretty yeah, itwas really pretty.
I wasn't expecting that.
And using the new camera Idon't know if we've mentioned
the new camera yet.
Um, really fun.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I love that thing oh yeah, I just got a little like
kodak point and shoot camera.
It was like on sale for primeday I love it.
I'm obsessed it takes prettygood pictures it does.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
But this it threw me off because the display itself
like kind of makes it a littlegrainy.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, but then, once it's on your phone, you're like
whoa a lot better.
Wow, I got it mainly for ourhoneymoon to take like really
cool pictures when we're there,um, and not have to like lug
around something big.
It's like very small.
But that's great yeah, I lovedit.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I've been using it been using it a ton um the.
So the dinner was great.
I was happy with that.
Not the best meal we've everhad, but you, we had a great
time that night.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, we did.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And I think maybe it was like the being out factor,
you know, like getting dressedup.
You looked amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I had to wear a new dress that I got, that I haven't
got to worn yet.
Yeah To worn yet To wear yet,oh, my God, do I know words.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I don't know Stress-free best man.
You could say that easy.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Again.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I can't.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
We haven't talked about Trent.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
No, we haven't, Is that?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
going to be?
For how long has this pre-show?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
been 12 minutes.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Should we save it for another episode?
We can do a Trent recap, sureOkay.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, we could do that.
That sounds good, I like that.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
All right.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, so let's dive in then.
Okay, All right.
All right.
So what are we going to talkabout today, Nick?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Today we're talking about ultra-processed foods.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
What if I told you that two people could follow the
same healthy eating guideline,but one eats mostly fresh,
minimally processed foods andthe other eats mostly packaged,
ultra-processed foods?
Would you expect their weightto be the same or different?
So it turns out.
(12:58):
We are going to briefly review,or introduce the idea, that
there was a study that came outrecently.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And we mentioned this in I forget what episode.
Yeah, we briefly talked aboutthis in episode 22, where we
kind of talked about caloriedeficits, weight loss,
metabolism, those sorts ofthings, but now we'll just dive
deeper into it.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Metabolism those sorts of things, but now we'll
just dive deeper into it.
Yeah, so it's on the back ofthis UK-based trial that came
out very, very recently, and inprior episodes we really dived
deep into the study.
Today, I think it's morefruitful if we define a little
bit more about ultra-processedfoods and talk about them a
little bit more.
But the study itself had about55 adults who were overweight or
(13:43):
had obesity.
It was kind of small 55 is nota lot.
Everyone followed the UK'seating well guideline, but the
only difference was one groupate minimally processed food and
the other ate ultra processedfood, and both groups lost
weight.
But the minimally processedgroup lost what they say is
(14:04):
twice as much weight, but it waslike 2% of their total body
weight versus 1%.
So that's important.
You have to like.
I mean, is that a whole lot?
I don't know.
You decide and they lost morebody fat.
But it's this study that getsus talking about what ultra
processed food is and what itreally means and why it matters
(14:25):
for health, before we get toofar into the fun stuff.
This episode combinesinformation from that trial,
which was published in NatureMedicine in 2025, and other
educational materials based onguidance from the American Heart
Association and otherpeer-reviewed research.
Okay, nikki, can you take usthrough what ultra-processed
(14:47):
foods are?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yes, ultra-processed foods are factory-made products
that are using ingredients, moreso uncommon.
Just that you would have inyour kitchen.
So like industrial sweeteners.
Colorings would have in yourkitchen.
So like industrial sweetenerscolorings, flavorings,
emulsifiers lots of steps thatthe food, or whatever, has to go
through before it's in apackage and in your store
totally um the.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
There is a classification of food that is
used.
It's called the NOVAclassification.
That's N-O-V-A.
It's widespread.
Everyone's heard of the foodpyramid.
That was one we grew up on.
Other people in their adulthoodthey're listening to this.
But the NOVA classificationbreaks down food into four
(15:37):
categories and those categoriesbeing unprocessed or minimally
processed.
This includes things likefruits, veggies, plain yogurt,
eggs, nuts, fresh meat and fish.
Number two processed culinaryingredients.
So there's no doubt like thesethings were made to cook in oil,
(16:01):
butter, sugar and salt.
Three is a brand of processedfoods, which can include things
like cheese, canned beans withsalt, simple whole grain bread.
And four is the ultra processedfoods.
You know a lot processed foods.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
You know a lot packaged snacks, instant noodles
, sweetened drinks processedmeats and actually many frozen
entrees, oh yeah basicallyanything that's like in a
package, if it's somethingfrozen that you're heating up
very processed.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, and the implication of the study, and we
didn't dive into it a whole lot.
It's an open access study foranyone who's really interested.
They were implying that thepeople in the two groups ate the
same nutritional quality Likethey ate the same amount of
protein, carbs, fats and theytried to imbue that the only
(17:01):
difference was the processingand show that these differences
happen.
So there's a huge reason thatthis matters.
It's because diets high inultra-processed foods have some
pretty significant links toweight gain themselves, type 2
diabetes, heart disease andincreased risk of early death.
(17:22):
And this evidence is a littletricky, though, because it comes
from observational studieswhich are just big population
trends of people, very shorttrials like the one that just
came out.
It lasted about eight weekswhen people were in each arm of
the treatment, because I thinkpeople did both.
So very short trials.
(17:42):
And while they're short, theydo show that people eat more
calories and gain weight onultra-processed foods compared
to minimally processed foods.
But I think there's a lot ofburden of scientific proof there
that I don't think everyone'sjumping at this.
I mean the media is.
I've seen lots of things onlinesaying this study talked about
(18:03):
ultra processed foods, like NPRon threads is throwing it out
and like NBC news is covering it.
It was like a tiny study, butthat's because they're hard to
do, like food studies arehappened most extensively when
people are like locked in ahospital wing and fed a certain
diet and measured in the entiretime.
(18:24):
How, like inconvenient, likewould you sign up for a study
like that?
Yeah, maybe, maybe, but like Imean like the logistics of that,
like you have to like take offfrom work, you have family,
friends, like how do you evenmake that happen?
So, yeah, you're getting intosmall people and if you don't
have that direct comparison,it's going to be from people
(18:47):
from observational studies.
And the big takeaway from thisnew study is that, like we said,
even when ultra processed foodsmeet nutrient guidelines like
these were within the UK'sguidelines of what food should
be like Minimally processed foodstill leads to more fat loss.
(19:10):
All right, well, thanks fortolerating my little rant with
me about there.
Can you take us through beingour culinary expert on this show
?
Oh my gosh.
Well, it's true, can you takeus through how to spot ultra
processed foods for your average?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
person.
Yeah, I can.
The first one is at theingredient list on an ultra
processed food will have a lotof ingredients maybe upwards of
like 20 on the back of theingredient label that have
things like artificialsweeteners.
You'll see things like flavorenhancers, thickeners,
(19:47):
preservatives, um.
One that I think is pretty likea pretty stark difference is uh
, like different kinds of peanutbutters or like a skippy or I
don't know what's another GIF onthe back of their label will
have all kinds of things thatyou can't really pronounce,
(20:08):
which is another kind of clue.
Like, if you're looking atsomething and you have no idea
what it is or you can'tpronounce it, it's something
ultra processed.
So the peanut butter on the backof something like a Skippy will
have a long ingredient list,but then, like we usually buy
the one at like trader joe's orcostco has a good one, um, where
, like, the ingredients are justpeanuts and salt right so
(20:31):
that's still something processedlike it's in a package, but it
doesn't have crap in it yeah,maybe it doesn't like reach that
ultra processed level, maybegrade two or three on the nova
people like to not get the kindsof peanut butters that are only
peanuts because of like the oiland stirring it, but if you
(20:51):
just store it upside down inyour pantry until you're ready
to eat it, it makes it reallyeasy to mix up and then just
keep it in your fridge and itlike stays solid and doesn't
separate.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
I really do think people come here for this stuff
too.
Yeah, specifically.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I think also it might be Wegmans or maybe Whole Foods
.
I don't know if they still doit, but you can like I actually
it might not be either of thosestores, so don't quote me on
there, but you can they havethis entire thing.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
They have a thing where you can like grind up the
peanuts and then it gives youpeanut butter or almond butter
or whatever kind of nut butter.
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, this goes in the theme of I really do think
that a lot of health andmedicine starts in the grocery
store oh yeah truly yeah, like,even in like peanut butter I
forget what the ingredient isthat's like toxic to dogs, so
like, why do you want to eatthat?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
right?
No, I think a lot of it.
I think we can afford to have alittle bit of a chat about that
once we're done spotting ultraprocessed foods.
But, um, you're right, whywould you what?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
are some other things you can look at.
Next one yeah, I'll go on awhole diatribe about the length
of ingredients.
Well then, also like the saladdressing too.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
That's why we just make our own salad dressing that
have five simple things in it.
Yeah, and it tastes better thanthe stuff that you buy at the
store.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
It does you know, yep .
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Anyway, anyway, okay.
So we have a long ingredientlist.
Second one are things on thepackaging that say like ready to
eat or instant, or like a justadd water kind of situation.
Mm-hmm, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Could be a sign.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Could be a sign.
If something is instantly ready, it's.
There's no reason.
Like mashed potatoes should notbe instantly ready.
Yeah, you know, yep, boil apotato, that'll taste better.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
It will.
It's a little more adventuroustoo.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, adventurous.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
It is.
It's more adventurous.
What else you got?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
The third thing is the quality of the ingredients.
So you'll see things likeactually I should say lower
quality of ingredients, sothings that are added sugars,
refined oils and refinedstarches and the last one kind
of goes along with the secondone, so just the convenience
(23:26):
factor of it all.
So, unfortunately, if somethingis very cheap or inexpensive,
it is going to be more processedand bad for you.
Um, the long shelf life is alsoanother giveaway that
something's ultra processed.
Um, I talked about this in thered food diet episode, which was
42, kind of using thecomparison of preservatives and
(23:49):
food.
So like, if you bake a cake athome, the shelf life of you
baking a cake.
It's not going to last forweeks and weeks and weeks in
your pantry, like if you justbought a packaged cake from the
store.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, compared to a Costco cake that can
unfortunately last for five dayswhile I pick on it after a
graduation party, which was kindof disturbing to me, that that
was fine.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, it was only disturbing because of like the
cream in it.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Oh, OK, great, but you mentioned then the quick
prep and then the what?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And the quick prep with you know, going along with
like ready to eat instant, thosesorts of things.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I have a couple of points that are off the outline
here to raise.
It's so unfortunate thatoftentimes the processed foods
and ultra processed foods aremore affordable.
So I was having thisconversation with this person on
threads and they were talkingabout how they were pretty much
priced out of healthy foods andso they had to eat processed
foods but in more modestportions, which I suppose is a
(24:58):
way to do it when you have to.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
No one said that this is affordable, cause we I know
we were watching somedocumentary and the one family
was basically like oh yeah, likethis food is great, because we
I know we were watching somedocumentary and the one family
was basically like, oh yeah,like this food is great and I
enjoy cooking it and I likeeating it, but like in reality,
we just can't afford it yeah,it's a very real thing.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
It's very expensive.
These days, everything is veryexpensive and then at the same,
I would invite people to thinkabout what you spend other money
on.
And then I see the argument oflike it's an investment in your
health and it's a long termthing, like you'll be able to do
more and live longer and havefewer health expenses later on
(25:41):
if you invest in this.
Or like if you're going to buysomething that's not as healthy
for you and you repurpose thatand invest it in like healthier
food, can you get by fair?
it's a tough situation yeah oneother thing is they make this
stuff hyper palatable.
It is, it tastes, it's likeadvanced yeah, they.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
It's like engineered to make you want like, crave it,
yeah, and want more of it,which is messed up.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
It's messed up and maybe if you're listening to
this like and hope it'svalidating that you there's a
reason you can't put the bagdown.
Yeah, it was built to do that.
There's a a reason I can't put.
I'll put myself on the line.
There's a reason I can't putthe sour cream and onion chips
down.
If I'm at the store and I'mdriving in the car and I haven't
(26:35):
eaten, I open the bag and I am.
There is a 75% chance Ifinished the entire family sized
bag and if there's a reason, itis designed to do that.
So be kind to yourself.
But sometimes, like we said,it's all about what's in the
grocery store is where all ofthis starts.
So if you can't trust yourselfbecause of what's happening to
(27:00):
you, maybe don't buy it.
If you can At least thosesnacks.
Maybe don't buy it if you canAt least those snacks.
So I'm going to give us someeveryday examples of some
ultra-processed foods and we'vetalked about them before but
some other ones to think about.
To easily identify Soda, easilyidentifiable ultra-processed
(27:22):
food.
Perhaps we'll do a wholeepisode on this.
I feel like there's a strongcommunity of people out there
who are very against diet drinks.
But for someone who hasoutright metabolic syndrome,
trouble with diabetes, troublewith weight.
I think in a harm reduction way, diet soda is better for that
(27:42):
person than a regular soda.
Don sue me.
Packaged cookies, instantnoodles, hot dogs some people
limit their hot dog intake toonce a year frozen dinners and
sweetened cereals are allexamples of ultra processed
foods.
Can you take us through somethings that may be sometimes
(28:05):
ultra processed but like itcould depend and it's not 100
percent.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah.
So things like some yogurts, ormostly the ones that are like
flavored, may have someadditional additives in their
protein bars.
I mean, there's a wholespectrum of protein bars where
you could go down, but at theend of the day it is something
(28:30):
that's processed.
Whether or not it's ultraprocessed, I think, just depends
.
I think some are worse thanothers.
And then plant based meats areanother one, because I mean, at
the end of the day, day likethey're adding stuff into it to
make it like shaped like aburger and may plus or minus
(28:52):
maybe taste like a burger.
So that's something that can beultra processed.
Yeah right, like your blackbeans and corn and, you know,
mushrooms and whatever likeshouldn't taste like a burger.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Right, and that's where the tough like yeah Right,
like you would think it'shealthier, but is there?
Is there more to it?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
And I think like that class of food.
It's probably healthier to havethe single ingredient of ground
beef with, like some onion andseasoning yeah, maybe maybe it
depends how you look at it Ithink it depends, yeah, so
there's that.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
And then there's foods that are clearly like, not
ultra processed fresh or frozenproduce can't miss.
Plain dairy eggs, whole grainsand canned beans with simple
ingredients Can't miss there.
Those are simple processed orjust not ultra-processed foods
that you can't miss.
(29:54):
And then, just to list a couplehealth implications many
ultra-processed foods are highin sugar, salt, unhealthy fats,
refined starch and they're lowin fiber.
Time and time again, these arefound to be implicated in high
blood pressure, blood sugar andcholesterol, and, honestly, the
higher ultra-processed foodintake is consistently
(30:15):
associated with worsecardiometabolic outcomes, and so
we just introduced a topic here.
The same thing is that not allultra-processed foods are
equally bad.
Like we talked about sprucingup a burger to make it look like
a burger, and like putting abow on it and putting a sign
next to it and said burger asopposed to like a package of
(30:38):
ultra-processed cookies that arehyper-palatable.
So there is a little bit ofwiggle room here, but it's just
some stuff to think about.
So we have some frequentlyasked questions on deck for you.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Here Are all packaged foods, ultra processed?
No, not all packaged foods.
So things that are moreminimally processed would be
like frozen fruits or frozenvegetables, plain oats, um, or
like just canned beans with salt.
So things that really are againlooking back at that ingredient
(31:13):
list are just like oneingredient, or like beans and
salt, peanuts and salt, thingslike that yeah, what about whole
grain packaged bread or cereals?
so again, some are, but some arenot.
Ultra processed.
If the ingredient list is shortagain and free of any kind of
(31:34):
like weird additives and likethings that you can't pronounce,
like if you're buying I don'tknow, like white wonder bread,
that's probably going to have alonger list of ingredients than
if you just bought like a loafof sourdough from the bakery
section and there are like fouringredients.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, right, totally.
Is it okay to eat ultraprocessed foods sometimes?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, I mean I think it's a little bit hard to avoid.
An occasional intake is common.
I would say the goal isprobably to make minimally
processed foods, or notprocessed foods, the basis of
your diet most of the time, tokind of support all those other
health factors like your heartand metabolic health and then
(32:27):
sprinkle in somethingultra-processed.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
So in this next portion, we're going to bring it
back to the study a little bitand talk about the key takeaway
from this trial that was justrecently published.
They both used minimallyprocessed foods and
ultra-processed foods to meetthe dietary guidelines, and they
both led to weight loss.
Minimally processed foods ledto more fat loss and better
control of cravings, and whatthey think is that the
(32:52):
processing itself may matter forweight and metabolic health
beyond calories and nutrients,which introduces a very
interesting possibility here,and so the study supports that,
aiming for mostly minimallyprocessed foods even if the
ultra processed food optionlooks healthier on paper may be
(33:13):
better, and so when you'rethinking about making those
changes, we're going to talkhere about some simple changes
you can make at home to get alittle bit better, but maybe not
even perfect.
So what things can we do?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
So we kind of talked about a couple of these sorts of
things throughout the episodes.
But one would be again readingthe ingredient list, going
toward things that are oneingredient or just a few
ingredients versus a whole listof things.
If you can pronounce everythingthat's in the ingredient list,
(33:51):
that's a good sign.
If you can't, maybe, stay awayfrom it, building your meals
around the minimally processedfoods or not processed foods at
all or not processed foods atall, Like maybe you make a salad
(34:14):
where, like, every ingredientis just one ingredient and then
you're going to make your owndressing and get rid of that
like bottle of craft Italiandressing that's in your fridge
that's full of crap and canolaoil.
This is like one of my things.
I have a few food type thingsthat I will die on the hill for,
and one of them is that oursalad dressing is killing us.
Make your own salad dressing,okay.
(34:36):
There's no reason.
We have salad dressing sittingon the counter right now.
It's just like five things, sosimple.
But all these other ones it'slike why do I have to
refrigerate this after I open it?
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Well, the xanthan gum needs to be hugged in a crisp
37 degree refrigerator.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
It's so easy to make salad dressing.
Just get rid of your saladdressing in your fridge.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
And you can find how to make your own salad dressing
in episode 69, the MediterraneanDiet.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, it's so easy.
Um, okay, I'll get off my diet.
I feel like I could talk aboutthis for a long time, like I
feel like in another life Iwould be a dietitian and just
talk about food all day, umswapping things out, so like
water for soda.
(35:25):
I know that's a hard one, so itis also killing you is there
like a not?
To be dramatic like a bridgeyeah, you could do like a
seltzer or like a poppy, or whatare the other ones, olipop,
there's a bunch of other whatare those?
um, they market them as likehealthy sodas.
(35:46):
Um, and it's basically, I guessit's soda esque yeah they have
all different flavors and theyhave ones that are kind of like
mimicking, like a dr pepper or aroot beer.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
So if, like, you need that fix, and you're trying to
cut back oftentimes they're onlylike a couple calories too.
Yeah, like far less, like 25calories, something under the
order of a hundred, when youraverage like soda is like 140,
120, something like that.
So you're making huge winsthere and you still get that
(36:23):
type of flavoring.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
The soda one's hard, I feel like.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
A lot of people have a tough time cutting with soda.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
The best thing my mom ever did for us was not let us
drink soda, because none of ushave developed a taste for it.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, it's a hard one .
It's a really really hard one.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Um, using like plain oats instead of the instant
oatmeal packets is one, eventhough I know you know that
brown sugar cinnamon one isreally good, but just get
regular oats and if you need tosweeten it up, just have brown
sugar and cinnamon that youprobably already have yeah um
plain yogurt versus what I like,this yogurt one oh yeah, plain
(37:02):
yogurt versus, um, like reallylike a flavored one, or ones
with fruit in them, which theykind of skeeved me out.
The ones with like fruit in thebottom, yeah, you can like, add
your own fruit yeah, that's whatI've been doing.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Your own fruit building my own yogurt, adding
my granola.
I want it a little sweeter.
I put my little honey on there.
I want my blackberries in there.
I put my blackberries in thereand it's delicious, instead of
buying the one that already hasit in it, and this one's like
120 calories.
It's the Oikos Oikos Pro.
It's like $100, $120 on thecalories and like loads of
(37:36):
protein.
It's a huge win.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Another thing you could do.
I know fruits and veggies canbe very expensive.
We just bought a lot today thatwas probably really expensive.
So you can use like frozenfruits and frozen veggies for
convenience If you have to.
So ideally, ones that you knoware are just like the broccoli,
florets or whatever, not onesthat are kind of like made with
(38:05):
a lot of sauces.
The freezing I think Imentioned this before like
freezing a vegetable or freezinga food changes like the
structure of the fiber in it, sothere's not as much fiber in it
.
But if you're not reallyworried about that, I don't know
why that's also something Ilike hang up on.
I don't know why that's alsosomething.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
I like hang up on.
And if you are worried abouthow much fiber you should get in
your diet, we have a basicbalanced nutrition episode,
episode 19.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
We do, and then keeping minimally processed
snacks ready.
So again, fruit plain popcorn.
You can make your own popcorn,which is another good way to
which we do.
But then you can also likecontrol what's in it and you can
use like a higher qualitysingle origin olive oil, or like
(38:55):
just like a pad of butter and,like you know, that's just the
kernel and this butter.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
We're pulling the ripcord, getting the engine
going.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, getting the engine going, yeah, and starting
small, I think, probably likereplacing one thing a day and
going from there is morerealistic than just overhauling
your entire diet overnight,which is not realistic at all.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
it's not, it's not at all.
I and you're totally right,because this this falls in the
line of like any sort ofbehavior change that people try
to do, and I would say we talkedabout it's Mediterranean try to
incorporate fish two times aweek.
So maybe you just go in yourpantry and take a look around,
see what's in there and then tryto make one of these swaps the
(39:43):
next time you go to the grocerystore, because it truly is, for
it's well known, this is goingto be helping your health in the
long run get rid of your saladdressing yeah, you do not like
salad dressing.
I don't, okay.
Well, thank you for coming backto another episode of your
checkup.
Hopefully you were able tolearn something for yourself, a
(40:06):
loved one or a neighbor.
You could find us on Instagram.
You could follow us on threads,which is where we are most
active.
You could send us an emailyourcheckuppod at gmailcom and,
most importantly, we lookforward to having you come back
again.
Feel free to share this episodewith someone if you learned
something, but, moreover, untilnext time, stay healthy, my
(40:29):
friends.
I'm Ed Dolesky.
I'm Nicole Rufo.
Thank you, goodbye, bye.
This information may provide abrief overview of diagnosis,
treatment and medications.
It's not exhaustive and is atool to help you understand
potential options about yourhealth.
It doesn't cover all detailsabout conditions, treatments or
(40:50):
medications for a specificperson.
This is not medical advice oran attempt to substitute medical
advice.
You should contact a healthcareprovider for personalized
guidance based on your uniquecircumstances.
We explicitly disclaim anyliability relating to the
information given or its use.
This content doesn't endorseany treatments or medications
for a specific patient.
Always talk to your healthcareprovider for complete
(41:12):
information tailored to you.
In short, I'm not your doctor,I am not your nurse, and make
sure you go get your own checkupwith your own personal doctor.
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