January 27, 2025 • 36 mins
Ep 169 of Your Child is Normal! (Note the new podcast title!!!)
On today's episode Dr. Michael Goran discusses the impact of sugar on children's health, the challenges of reducing sugar intake, and practical strategies for families to manage sugar consumption. Dr Goran’s approach is practical, he doesn’t advocate for no sugar, just less if it. He offers actionable steps for parents to help their children develop healthier eating habits. The discussion also highlights the significance of teaching kids about nutrition and making informed choices regarding sugar.
*To listen to Dr Goran as a past guest, and learn more tips to help lessen sugar in your family life, you can refer back to episode 69!
Takeaways
- Short-term effects of sugar can motivate children to reduce intake.
- A week-long sugar fast can reset cravings and preferences.
- Teaching kids to read labels helps them make informed choices.
- Moderation is key; complete deprivation is not sustainable.
- Quality over quantity: choose better treats when possible.
Dr Goran is one of the worlds leading experts in the field of childhood obesity, and author of “Sugarproof: The Hidden Dangers of Sugar That Are Putting Your Child’s Health at Risk and What You Can Do.” Dr Michael Goran is a Professor of Pediatrics at The Children’s Hospital of Los Angeles. He is Program Director for Diabetes and Obesity at the Saban Research Institute.Dr. Goran also serves as Co-Director of the USC Diabetes and Obesity Research Institute. Dr. Goran is a native of Glasgow, Scotland, and received his Ph.D. from the University of Manchester, UK.Dr. Goran has published over 350 professional peer-reviewed articles and reviews. He is the Editor of the “Childhood Obesity: Causes, Consequences and Intervention Approaches” published in 2017, co-editor of “Dietary Sugars and Health” published in late 2014, and currently serves as Editor-in-Chief for Pediatric Obesity.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cScRDJ1MLFDfkuKFZlqhdW6BepwKzjrs
Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.
For more content from Dr Jessica Hochman:
Instagram: @AskDrJessica
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Website: www.askdrjessicamd.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Hi everybody. I'm Dr Jessica Hochman, pediatrician
(00:02):
and mom of three. On thispodcast, I like to talk about
various pediatric health topics,sharing my knowledge, not only
as a doctor, but also as aparent. Ultimately, my hope is
that when it comes to yourchildren's health, you feel more
confident, worry less and enjoyyour parenting experience as
much as possible. Today, we'retackling a topic that's on a lot
of parents' minds, especiallyafter the holiday season, sugar.
(00:25):
If you feel like your family'sbeen stuck in a cycle of too
many sweets and hidden sugars,you're not alone. So to help us
navigate this, I'm joined by DrMichael Goren, one of the
world's leading experts onchildhood nutrition and the
health effects of sugar. He's aProfessor of Pediatrics at
Children's Hospital Los Angeles,and co author of sugar proof the
hidden dangers of sugar that areputting your child's health at
risk, and what you can do inthis episode, Dr Gorn and I
(00:48):
discuss practical ways to reduceadded sugar in your home and
without making food a battle.
What I so appreciate about hisapproach is that he's not
advocating for a no sugarlifestyle, but rather offers
realistic strategies to cut backin meaningful ways. If you're
looking for a reset after theholidays, you're gonna love this
episode. So thank you so muchfor coming back on the podcast.
For those of you listening, I'vehad the pleasure of having Dr
(01:10):
Goren on on maybe a couple yearsago, and it was a great episode.
So anybody listening, definitelygo back and take a listen. But
I'm so happy to have you onafter you are on. I have to tell
you, I got so much feedback frompeople telling me that they were
motivated to change theirlifestyle. They were motivated
to decrease how much sugar theywere consuming and how much
sugar their children wereconsuming. So I thought after
(01:31):
the New Year and everybody isback on a sugar kick, I'm sure
most people listening can relateto this when I say that, and I'm
hoping that a conversation withyou will motivate people to
think about how much sugarthey're consuming and to think
about ways to decrease how muchthey're having in their lives.
So thank you so much for forbeing open to having this
conversationalways. Yeah, Thanks for Thanks,
(01:53):
Jessica, and thanks for gettingthe message out there to the
people that you, that you workwith so
and before we get started, I'mjust curious, how did you become
so passionate about sugar? What?
What drove you to talking aboutit, writing about it? Did you
read something? Were youmotivated by something? How did
this come to be? It'sreally enough. It's really an
(02:15):
offshoot from the research thatwe've been doing for the last 30
plus years, we didn't start offwith a focus on sugar. We
started off just trying tounderstand what what the factors
were about kids, diet andenvironment in general, that
were contributing to the rapiduptick we were seeing in obesity
in children, type two diabetes,fatty liver disease. These
(02:39):
things weren't really a bigissue when we started doing this
research 30 plus years ago, butas we've done the research
trying to understand what haschanged to lead to the uptick in
those diseases, of the typicallyaward seen in children time and
time again, we kept seeing notthe only factor, but the
(03:01):
recurring factor was dietarysugar kept coming up in our
analysis to be a significant andmodifiable factor, and it just
became so apparent that it wasan issue. And then there was a
realization that we do all thisresearch, but very few people
(03:22):
are actually able to read it.
And a lot of this was happening,really, before the before social
media took off, and I wanted towrite a book, starting about 10
years ago, by which time, youknow, social media was taking
off, there's a lot ofmisinformation starting to
happen. And I, you know, I justwanted to get the research out
(03:45):
there to the moms and dads andcaregivers that don't
necessarily see the research orread the research. And it became
my mission to try and translateit, the research, into a
practical, hands on usefulapproach that parents could
could implement in their dailylives with their kids.
(04:07):
I can see how from yourperspective, it's different from
what most of us parents thinkabout we don't want our kids to
have sugar. We'll tell them,because we know it leads to
things like cavities. We know itleads to obesity. We know it's
not good for them, but youreally understand that it can
lead to disease processes in thefuture. And so I think while
it's hard to hear that truth,it's really important to
(04:29):
understand that, yeah,so I mean, it's hard to it's
always hard to get action onlong term prevention issues,
because we're talking about1020, 30 years down the road,
but the seeds are definitelyplanted. But we've also learned
about other short term,immediate effects, not just
things like cavities and Wigginthat you mentioned, but also
(04:51):
learning and memory and abilityto focus and do well at school.
Studies are showing that thesethings are also. Impacted by too
much sugar and sweetness in thediet. So it's both the short
term and the long term effectsthat really are important, I
think, for to get kids to takeaction, we really need to kind
(05:15):
of focus on some of those short,shorter term, more internal
motivating factors that theywill notice that it will
improve, things like skinappearance, doing better at
sports, doing better in in theclassroom. These are all factors
that we've found, or otherpeople have found, to be related
(05:38):
to too much sugar, and maymotivate kids more than
getting diabetes in 20 or 30years.
That's a good point. I've heardpublic health conversations
where they talk about smoking,for example, that if you're
talking to teenagers and givingthem rationale, why not to
smoke? If you talk about lungcancer, that often falls on deaf
(06:01):
ears because it's so far out inthe future. In the future. But
if you talk to them about theirskin, how your skin will look
more clear if you don't smoke,how your teeth will look better
if you don't smoke, that seemsto resonate more with the youth,
so I can see how that would alsobe at play with sugar. Yeah.
I mean, as a parent, if you'regoing to talk to your kids about
this, you have to, you have toidentify and latch on to what
(06:23):
the intrinsic motivators aregoing to be for your kids, and
that could be very different fora five year old versus a 15 year
old.
That's true. So Dr Gordon, partof why I'm happy to have you on
is I'm looking for others to bemotivated by you, but also for
myself in my own life, I mustadmit, this is a tough time of
year, and starting in lateOctober, I have one of my kids
(06:46):
birthdays, then there'sHalloween, and then another
birthday, and then there'sThanksgiving and all the
holidays and all the holidayparties. And it's hard to be
that parent that's constantlylimiting their kids when they
feel like they are deserving oftreats and desserts. So I have
to admit that my kids have hadmore sugar recently than I wish
was true, but now that we areback in the new year, I would
(07:07):
love to get us off of thattrain. So I'm hoping that
talking to you will be the JumpStart of this motivation. Yeah,
I mean, your kids aren't theonly one. I gained a few pounds
myself over the holidays, so Ithink we're all, we're all,
we've all kind of in a similarboat, really. So it's pretty
typical, and it is a good timeto reflect on that and to make
(07:30):
changes. And I think every timeyou do that, you are less likely
to succumb the next time, or thenext or next year, maybe not
quite as bad over you know of ajourney down that path of sugar
and sweetness, but yeah, it's arecurring issue, and this is a
(07:50):
perfect time to rebootsystem. Do you and I'm curious,
do you find that sugar is trulyan addiction? People talk about
how they're addicted to sugar.
Is there validity to thatstatement,
I think there's some validity,you know, there's still some
debate on this, and I think itdepends on where you are on your
(08:12):
on the spectrum of what youthink addiction looks like, you
know, I think there's certainlytoo much sugar, and trying To
get off sugar meets many of thecriteria for for addiction,
right? It's if you want to giveit up, it's hard. If you do give
it up, you can have, you canhave side effects or cravings,
(08:33):
for example, where it's verydifficult to give it up, or you
just, just, just, just like,it's hard to give up a drug that
you're addicted to, so it sharesa lot of the common elements of
things that we know areaddictive, like tobacco, for
example. So you can call itaddictive or not, it doesn't
(08:56):
really matter. The point is thatit is hard to give up, but not
as hard as some of those otheraddictive compounds. And what we
found working with families isthat the difficult part of the
process is only a day or two.
It's not a week or two, andthere are some pretty, pretty
immediate effects after that, ofimprovement. So there are some
(09:16):
addictive elements. It's prettyclear. But the plus on the plus
side is it can be overcomepretty quickly. I
like hearing that just a day ortwo, because that's something I
think What's hard is when Ithink in my head about cutting
out sugar for a very long amountof time. Let's say I'm going to
cut out sugar for a year. Thatsounds really hard to do, but if
(09:38):
you just start with a day ortwo, that sounds much more
doable. So I like hearing thatThat's good advice. Yeah.
I mean, I think that's notalways true for everybody, and I
think that it may vary dependingon how, quote, unquote addicted
you are to sweetness or how muchyou're consuming. I don't think
(09:58):
I. Well, my philosophy, and forsure, the philosophy of sugar,
proof is that we don't need togive up all sugar forever. I
just don't think that'ssustainable or a good idea. I
mean, I don't think we need tobe depriving ourselves of the
joys of food and the pleasuresof food that we get from from
(10:21):
sweetness. The point is thatthere's, there's a lot of it,
and it's very sweet. And I thinkwe can still have that enjoyment
by moderating back to moresensible level that's not going
to have all those negativeimpacts you can get. You can get
away from those negative impactson a lower level of shoe. You
don't have to give it upcompletely to get those
(10:43):
benefits. Well, that's what'soften different. So the pure
addictive people will say, Oh,if you're smoking or drinking
and you have an addiction, youhave to give it up completely,
and you can never go back,right? So it's not, I don't view
it as that level of addiction,you can definitely scale back on
(11:04):
it, maybe cut it out for a weekor two to reset the system. But
I'm not saying that you cannever have sugar again. I just
don't think that's feasible orsustainable. You know, at a
moderated level, it's not it'snot bad for you.
Yes, and you're right. That is abig distinction between
(11:25):
something like a very addictivedrug or smoking cigarettes,
where you really are best offstopping forever. I think
learning how to have sugar inmoderation, that's the key, and
that's also really difficult,because it's so hard to stop
with just one cookie, especiallyif they're my mom's cookies,
it's really hard to stop withjust one?
Yeah, I think there's ways to doit. I think the sugar proof is
all about how you achieve that,and the more you practice, the
(11:50):
better you get at it. So that'swhy the sugar going on a sugar
fast for a week or two, evenjust a week, actually, is what
we promote in sugar proof thatthat can really reset your
internal cravings for sweetness,such that you will, next time,
(12:12):
be satisfied with one cookie,not two.
Okay, so for people that arelistening in sugar proof, that's
the book that Dr Gorinbeautifully wrote that I highly
recommend, you recommend, ifyou're in a sugar kick, just to
take a one week break from addedsugar.
One week break from added sugar.
Yeah, we have a pretty detailedplan on how to do that, because
(12:33):
it can be a little tricky. Butthe goal is to, number one, get
everybody on board in yourfamily, and if you can't,
there's a there's a plan B. Butwe'll talk. Let's talk about
Plan A for now. You know, justgo through your pantry and find
out where all the added sugar iscoming from. I'm not just I'm
(12:59):
not talking about just thosecookies from your mom, but you
know the other processed foodsin your pantry, things like
yogurts and dressings andketchups and even bread and
crackers and things like that,70% of packaged foods have added
sugar. So identify what thoseare. You know, peanut butter is
(13:23):
another one that comes up a lotwith with young kids. There's
lots of products out there.
There's lots of peanut buttersor yogurts that don't have added
sugar. Get rid of the ones thatdo. Don't buy them. Don't bring
them into the house. Don't bringsoda into the house. Don't bring
juice into the house, your kidswill have plenty of opportunity
(13:43):
to get that outside of thehouse. Okay? So just
to picture what this will looklike with my family, for
example, I will have aconversation with the kids and
let them know for one week weare not going to have added
sugar, and I'm going to talk tothem about what we're going to
remove from the pantries, removefrom the refrigerator, no juice,
nothing with added sugars. Andthen I really want to make sure
(14:04):
that they're never feelinghungry. So I want to make sure
that I have plentiful foods thatthey can have in the house.
Yeah, you know, I'm justthinking it's tricky, because
there's not a ton of options outthere, but there, well,
it depends for what you'reprobably thinking about snacks
and things like that, butthere's plenty of breakfast,
(14:25):
lunch and dinner options andeven snacks. And we do have,
actually, if your listeners areinterested, we can get them a
more detailed plan on this.
There is a plan in the book, butwe also have a PDF file with a
lot of this information as well,if they want it,
I would love that, because Ithink that's what's hard for
(14:45):
people. We want to do the rightthing. We want to buy products
that don't have that don't havemuch added sugar, but it's hard
like you get to the grocerystore and all of a sudden what
you're looking at, besidesfruits and vegetables and meats,
a lot of the cereals have addedsugar. There's a lot of, as you
mentioned, yogurts have addedsugars. So I think that would be
really helpful. I would love tosee a PDF, just to give people
(15:07):
some guidance. Yeah,I can send that to you so you
can make it available to yourlisteners. Thank you. But yeah,
so that that's what you're goingto do, and then you're going to,
you know, howold are your kids. My kids are
911, and 14, yeah, so you mighthave
a little rebellion on your handsfor the first day.
(15:29):
So you might have to talk tothem in advance to prep them a
little bit for this and what thebenefits are going to be. And
they may, they may be unhappyfor a day or two, but the
families that we worked with forthe most part after the after
that first day or two, everybodyseems to settle down and be more
(15:52):
even keeled, have better energyand just have less cravings. And
when our kids were little, weused to do this at this time of
year with our kids as well.
Definitely we'll see benefits.
And then, you know, like I said,the next time you give them
(16:14):
cookies or juice, they might bemore they're going to be more
satisfied with less sweetness.
You can definitely dampen downcravings for sweetness and
dampen down preference forsweetness.
Okay, I'm going to be motivated.
This is, this is a great this isjust what I'm looking for, some
good some good reminders andmotivation. So I also really
(16:35):
like the point how you talkabout looking at teaching your
children to read labels and tounderstand added sugar. Because
my kids, they do well withbudgets. I think thinking about
a financial budget, for example,is very fun for them. So if I
talk about added sugars as abudget, that works for them. So,
so I really appreciated yourrecommendation from the American
(16:56):
Heart Association. That's thatstipulates that kids over two
should be mindful of their addedsugars. And so my kids, who
really like budgets, we talkabout how they shouldn't go over
25 grams or 24 grams of addedsugar, and that helps. So when
we go to Trader Joe's and theywant to get a chocolate bar or
they want to get cereal, we readthe added grams of sugar. And so
(17:17):
that way it's not a no to thoseproducts, but they just know
that what they should consume,there's a limit to it. And then
it also makes them think, okay,if I know I'm going to Grandma's
house tonight and she's going tohave a good dessert, maybe
during the day, I won't have asmuch added added sugar. So
that's, I think that's a goodpoint for people listening, that
teaching your kids to readlabels can be really
(17:37):
advantageous.
Yeah, and not to the point ofmaking them feel like they're,
like, totally self monitoringeverything they're eating or
depriving themselves ofanything. So I think, you know,
there's a, there's a fine linein there.
(17:58):
Absolutely, I completely agreewith that. It's I want them to
get the idea that they can havesugar, but not too much, without
making themselves crazy andhyper focused.
Yeah, yeah. I don't think youknow, it's a guideline. So it's
not like you you know, maybeit's at first. It's a good
training tool to to kind of gainmore recognition and
(18:20):
understanding of of where theseadded sugars are coming from, we
do you do see it on the foodlabel pretty clearly where added
sugars are. But in addition towhat's labeled as added sugars,
we're also saying fruit juice,which is not labeled as an added
sugar, even though the nutritionguidelines and the labels do not
(18:44):
count it as added sugar,I also think visually, it's
helpful to show kids a teaspoonof sugar and then you explain
how much sugar is in a can ofsoda, because I think it's hard
to conceptualize how much sugarare in certain products.
Yeah, I think it's a veryimpactful lesson to count it
out. I My kids were smaller. Iwent to their school. I remember
(19:06):
my kids still have friends whoare in their 20s now, and they
said, Oh, I remember when youcame to my class and we counted
out the sugar. So, yeah. I mean,if you sit down with a cup of
tea and start spooning 12teaspoons of sugar into your
tea, and your kid says, What areyou doing? Why are you putting
so much sugar in your tea? Yousay, Well, that's how much is in
(19:28):
a can of soda.
That's insane. That's so muchsugar. And nobody would put
12 teaspoons of sugar in theirtea, right? No
one or two maybe. And I feelguilty putting 212 teaspoons of
sugar. That's really that. Ithink that visual is really
important. Okay, for people thatare listening, that are
thinking, Okay, I want to dosomething. What would you dr
(19:52):
Gorn, have today as a healthyeating day with not much sugar?
What? What foods do you like tohave in your, in your day to
day, if you're trying. To getstarted on a sugar detox. Yeah,
we are doing it. Actually. Mywife and I are doing it. As I
said, my kids are mostly gone.
For us, we sometimes will skipbreakfast because we do. We do
intermittent fasting a couple ofdays a week. But if I'm having
(20:17):
breakfast, I'll just have somescrambled eggs, maybe a small
piece of toast or some fruit oravocado or something like that.
This morning, I'm at work, and Ihad half of a burrito, which was
filled with eggs and steak. Soit's high protein, low carbs. So
(20:37):
have that in the morning, orsometimes I won't eat till like
11 or 12, and then we'll havelunch. Yesterday, we just had
some some salads, or some tunasalad, some veg. I'm not
snacking during the day. I foundthat when I do this, I'm not
(20:58):
snacking. I'll have some fruitor some nuts, and then, you
know, dinner, my wife and I docook quite a lot. I got some I
got some black cod marinating inthe fridge in miso that I'm
going to broil. Last night, wejust had some some burgers, and
last night, I had it on half abun instead of a whole bun with
(21:21):
some avocado and pickles on it.
So I think you can make thesechanges with just these small,
small modifications tomorrow.
Tomorrow's a tennis day. Sobefore Tannis, I'll eat muesli
with some plain yogurt. Big fanof plain yogurt, and this is a
(21:44):
good way to overcome the yogurtproblem, is to buy a good plain
yogurt, because you can alsoget, you know, some of the Greek
or Icelandic yogurts, very highin protein, and you get a big
boost of probiotics as well. Ilike I go to the farmer's market
every weekend, and I lovestopping at the yogurt the
(22:06):
yogurt station. They I agreewith you. I think yogurt is a
great way to get some naturalprotein. Also, I love mixing
some fruit inside. I'll put alittle bit of honey in it.
That's whatI was going to say. Like, you're
much better off starting offwith a solid base of a good
plain yogurt with, solely it'smilk and cultures, that's all it
is. And so you get a lot ofprotein. And then you can, if
(22:28):
your kids want a littlesweetness, that's okay, add a
little bit of honey, even add alittle bit of their favorite
jam. I do that sometimes just,you know, because that way you
can control it, a little bit ofmaple syrup, whatever tasty
like. And then you know exactlywhat you're getting. There's no
gum or fillers or preservatives.
(22:49):
It's just the yogurt withwhatever fruit or little thing
you want your kids want to addto it. And then it becomes like
a personal little project aswell.
Now most Americans, I find, tendto want dessert after dinner.
That's the time, as JerrySeinfeld says, that's when the
cookies really call his name. Doyou have any recommendations for
(23:11):
something that might satisfy thesweet tooth in the evening, but
that isn't added sugar?
Yeah, in those days, it could bea little square for me, a little
square of dark chocolate or somenuts or a date or a piece of
fruit. But also, you know, Ilike this. I like dessert. So I
(23:33):
think in those situations we'retalking about smaller portion
sizes, or if I'm making itmyself, which I think obviously
is preferred, or if your mom'smaking her cookies, see if you
can get her to cut out a littlebit of sugar. So if her recipe
is calling for a cup of sugar,see if she'll do with three
(23:54):
quarters of a cup of sugar. Ibet you the cookies will be just
as good, yes, and if you dothat, they won't be as sweet,
and they won't kind of light upthe addiction receptors as well
as probably, so oftentimesthey'll actually taste better
because you're not overwhelmedwith the sweet taste. You can
(24:17):
actually taste whatever kind ofa cookie it was trying to be
without all that sugar, thetaste will shine through more.
So I would use less sugar, andI'd make the cookies a bit
smaller. And if it's portioningout, you can cut a smaller
portion. We when our kids werelittle, we used to have what we
(24:38):
called mini D night. So mini Dwas just a small piece of
dessert, serve it with a nice,you know, cup of tea or herbal
tea. So it's still kind of a funcelebration. But it doesn't have
to be like a huge, you know,piece of cake, or, you know, two
whole huge cookies. You.
Somethingthat I do that I know irritates
(25:00):
my kids, but when we go out forice cream, I like to get a large
ice cream and then share itamongst my three children. And
at first they'll complain, it'snot fair, but the truth is that
even with the third portion,they are satisfied afterwards.
It's just the first few bitesthat I think people really enjoy
the most. But what they dounderstand and when I tell them
(25:23):
that we're saving money thisway, also, they do seem to
understand it. When I point outthat it's also cost savings for
the family just to get one, theyhear that point more than I'd
like you to have less addedsugar in your diet for whatever
reason.
Yeah, I wish some of the icecream shops would sell just
(25:44):
small little portions, like theysell for, like, babies or
puppies. Sometimes they'll dothat like, because that's what
I'm like, because I like icecream, but I don't need, like, a
huge bowl of it. I just like thefirst couple of bites, like you
said,Yes, agree with you. We should
start that. We should startthat. Yeah, I wish, wish we
could, because it's the samewith I mean, you can do that in
(26:07):
some situations, like if, ifyour kids like to go to your
favorite coffee shop and getwhatever crazy drink it is that
they like, that you can control.
I mean, if you ask like you, youcan ask the barista to put one
or two pumps of the syrupinstead of five or six. So you
(26:30):
can definitely be in control ofthat, or ask for that to be
controlled.
I actually, and I do that withmy kids, and when they hear me
ask for 50% sugar or half theamount of sugar. I know it
annoys them, but then when theyactually do get the drink to
your point, they can't tell thedifference. It's just as good.
They can't tell the difference.
Might even be better, but it'sstandard practice. And like the
bubble tea shops will take yourorder and they always ask you,
(26:54):
do you want full sweetness? Halfsweetness or quarter sweetness?
So it's standard practice there.
I wish it was standard practicein some of the other coffee
shops. But, you know, anotherthing I just thought of with the
ice cream. I mean, you could,could try this, what, take the
regular portion, but just havethem put it on three different
(27:14):
plates so they get good portion.
Yeah, I always I asked for acouple extra cups, and I say,
I'll pay for the extra cups. Idon't want to irritate the ice
cream shop, but it's more justprotecting my kids from not
consuming too much sugar. Yeah,those are some, those are some
tips that I do stand by, even ifmy kids don't like it. I can't
help it. I know it's best forthem.
(27:35):
Yeah. I mean, you don't want toruin the fun, because going out
for ice cream is kind of a funfamily thing to do together. So,
you know, we don't, we don'twant to, like, take the edge of
that away, and it's still tryingto keep it a fun family
experience.
That is true too. I hear thatpoint Absolutely. So I think,
(27:57):
you know, it's just, I think, asa, as a, as a parent, as a
human, it's just so hard becausethere's sugar everywhere, and so
just learning how to limit it,and just to pick and choose and
make sure when you're having it,it's a quality, worthwhile time
and experience. Yeah,that's the issue that it is,
that it is everywhere, and kidsare just kind of bombarded with
sugar, probably at school aswell, right, left and center,
(28:20):
from even from teachers orbirthday parties at school or
families bringing in cupcakes orwhatever. Again, we're not
trying to deprive it's justsomething has to change, because
it's just coming in every hourof the day from a different
direction. Yes,it's true. I The older I get. My
own mother's advice resonateswith me all the time. She used
(28:43):
to tell us when we were growingup, I don't want you to have
candy, but I'll bake for youwhenever you want. You know you
want to make if you're going tohave a treat, you want to make
it special. And baking felt morespecial. There's more effort
involved. It's homemade. So shenever deprived us of sugar, but
it was what kind of sugar are wehaving? Yeah,
you want, you want good qualityjunk. You want good charge, good
(29:05):
quality treats. If you can, ifyou can, that's right, yeah, all
right. So any other suggestionsfor parents that are looking for
motivation or for tips to thinkabout cutting back on their kids
sugar? I like the idea oflooking for sugar substitutes,
starting with a base, and thenadding in, having control,
getting regular ice cream ortreats, and then just pushing
(29:30):
out smaller amounts. If you aregoing to bake, you can add less
sugar than is that isadvertising the recipe. Try
to not bring it into the house,especially sugary beverages,
soda and juices try to makewater the default at home, your
kids will have plenty ofopportunities to get soda and
(29:52):
juices in situations which youcannot control. You
know, honestly not bringing inthe home. I do feel like that's
number one, because once it's inthe. Home and the kids know it's
there. It's really hard to sayno. It's hard for me to say no
myself, if I know there's, See'sCandy at home.
Yeah, we made a bunch ofChristmas cookies. I put them in
the freezer. I should probablythrow them away. I know, I know
(30:15):
they're in the freezer, and youknow, I'll still go in there and
take take one every now andthen. But
by the way, that's anotherimportant tip, too. I think so
many of us are afraid to throwfood away. We feel bad throwing
food away. But when it comes tojunk, it's okay. Not only do I
think it's okay, I think it'sthe better thing to do, just get
rid of it. Throw it away. It'snot healthy for you. It's not
(30:36):
healthy for anybody. Yeah, itmay sound wasteful for me to say
that, but I really do believeit, that's not good for
anything. Yeah, good point,yeah. So don't bring it to the
home. But you meant the otherthing I was mentioning, because
you did mention sugarsubstitutes. So sugar
substitutes can be a problem. Ithink you meant, you know,
(30:57):
natural sweetness is an okaysubstitute. So if you're buying
a plain yogurt and adding somehoney or maple syrup, or mashing
up a banana in there, orsomething that's that's great,
but don't fall into the trap ofsugar substitutes, aka stevia,
monk fruit, sucralose, even anaturally occurring sweeteners,
(31:22):
like I mentioned, Stevie andmonk fruit, it's not going to
solve the problem for a numberof different reasons. Number
one, we don't really know whatthese compounds are doing to
kids. Number two, it's not goingto resolve sweetness and number
three, it tastes terrible formost people, so I would much
rather make a cookie with lesssugar than make a cookie with
(31:44):
monk fruit sugar, because it'sgoing to taste better. At least
I know what I'm getting. I'm howit's going to affect my body.
It's still considered aprocessed food, even if it's
not, yeah, it'sabsolutely processed. Like,
there's this myth that monkfruit is natural, like monk
fruit is a chemical derived fromthe monk fruit in the same way
(32:06):
that Sucrose is a sugar derivedfrom sugar cane. It's a chemical
that's derived from naturethat's then used in food
processing. So it's stillprocessed. That's
a great point, because it soundshealthier when it's called monk
fruit. It sounds like it's afruit but, but that's really
(32:26):
helpful to hear that it'sactually a chemical derived from
something else. Yeah.
I mean, the FDA finally bannedred dye. You know, 20 years
later, in another 20 years,maybe they'll ban sweeteners,
because I'm we're going to findout that they're not good for
the body. We already know thatthey don't have their intended
(32:48):
effects and that they do haveadverse effects on the body. Why
are we doing this? Why are wejust not using less sugar? Why
are we putting something elseinto the diet that we don't know
what it is or how it's going toaffect the body, it just makes
no sense to me.
I also find that fruit gets abad reputation. Some people will
(33:08):
caution their children from nothaving too much mangoes or
tropical fruits or bananas.
They're worried that they're toosugary. Do you think there's
truth to that? I mean myself, Iknow there are calories that you
have to consider. But in termsof the fruit itself, I always
say to families, I've never seena child obese from over
consumption of fruit. To me, Iwould not think about fruit as
(33:29):
being a bad thing to overlyconsume.
They can't so too much fruit allat once can be an issue because
of all the fructose. Soordinarily it's not that much
fructose, and the body is ableto accommodate. That's how our
(33:50):
bodies were designed toaccommodate fructose coming in
from natural fruit. But ifyou're going to consume a
massive bowl of fruit all atonce. It might overwhelm that
that normal fructose tolerance,and you can get fructose
intolerance, evolving fructosemalabsorption, which might not
(34:13):
be waking we might get a soretummy, but we're talking massive
amounts all at once. And forkids, that doesn't tend to
happen. It's usually spread outthroughout the day. And I mean
by all by a lot, I mean likeseveral apples all at once, or a
massive bowl of of fruit salador something like that.
(34:36):
Well, do you also think, do youthink it would be helpful for
someone to reach out to a friendand have the buddy system. Hey,
let's check in. Let's talkabout, you know, how good were
you today, about not having toomuch sugar or have a contest
within the family with some sortof prize at the end? I think
that could be fun. I think thatcould be a motive, a potential
motivator. Yeah,I think there's definitely
potential. You. Uh, power, youknow, from, from, from social,
(35:01):
social networks and, you know,peer support and stuff like
that, absolutely used. We didthat a couple of years in a row.
We've used at this time of year.
We were doing for a while acollective seven day sugar
fasts. And we set up, you know,Facebook group, and we had some
(35:24):
support in place, and it was, itwas quite successful. We didn't,
we never, we were looking into,like a way to set that up in a
way that it was automated, youknow, in an app or something
like that. But when we justnever, never got that into it,
unfortunately. Allright. Well, thank you so much.
Dr Gorin, you've given me somegood tips, a lot to think about,
(35:45):
and I really, really, trulyappreciate your motivation and
your education. Thank you forall that you do. Oh,
my pleasure. Glad to be here.
Fun to talk to you. Thankyou for listening. And I hope
you enjoyed this week's episodeof Ask Dr Jessica. Also, if you
could take a moment and leave afive star review wherever it is
you listen to podcasts, I wouldgreatly appreciate it. It really
(36:06):
makes a difference to help thispodcast grow. You can also
follow me on Instagram at ask DrJessica, see you next Monday.
You.
Hi everybody. I'm Dr Jessica Hochman, pediatrician
(00:02):
and mom of three. On thispodcast, I like to talk about
various pediatric health topics,sharing my knowledge, not only
as a doctor, but also as aparent. Ultimately, my hope is
that when it comes to yourchildren's health, you feel more
confident, worry less and enjoyyour parenting experience as
much as possible. Today, we'retackling a topic that's on a lot
of parents' minds, especiallyafter the holiday season, sugar.
(00:25):
If you feel like your family'sbeen stuck in a cycle of too
many sweets and hidden sugars,you're not alone. So to help us
navigate this, I'm joined by DrMichael Goren, one of the
world's leading experts onchildhood nutrition and the
health effects of sugar. He's aProfessor of Pediatrics at
Children's Hospital Los Angeles,and co author of sugar proof the
hidden dangers of sugar that areputting your child's health at
risk, and what you can do inthis episode, Dr Gorn and I
(00:48):
discuss practical ways to reduceadded sugar in your home and
without making food a battle.
What I so appreciate about hisapproach is that he's not
advocating for a no sugarlifestyle, but rather offers
realistic strategies to cut backin meaningful ways. If you're
looking for a reset after theholidays, you're gonna love this
episode. So thank you so muchfor coming back on the podcast.
For those of you listening, I'vehad the pleasure of having Dr
(01:10):
Goren on on maybe a couple yearsago, and it was a great episode.
So anybody listening, definitelygo back and take a listen. But
I'm so happy to have you onafter you are on. I have to tell
you, I got so much feedback frompeople telling me that they were
motivated to change theirlifestyle. They were motivated
to decrease how much sugar theywere consuming and how much
sugar their children wereconsuming. So I thought after
(01:31):
the New Year and everybody isback on a sugar kick, I'm sure
most people listening can relateto this when I say that, and I'm
hoping that a conversation withyou will motivate people to
think about how much sugarthey're consuming and to think
about ways to decrease how muchthey're having in their lives.
So thank you so much for forbeing open to having this
conversationalways. Yeah, Thanks for Thanks,
(01:53):
Jessica, and thanks for gettingthe message out there to the
people that you, that you workwith so
and before we get started, I'mjust curious, how did you become
so passionate about sugar? What?
What drove you to talking aboutit, writing about it? Did you
read something? Were youmotivated by something? How did
this come to be? It'sreally enough. It's really an
(02:15):
offshoot from the research thatwe've been doing for the last 30
plus years, we didn't start offwith a focus on sugar. We
started off just trying tounderstand what what the factors
were about kids, diet andenvironment in general, that
were contributing to the rapiduptick we were seeing in obesity
in children, type two diabetes,fatty liver disease. These
(02:39):
things weren't really a bigissue when we started doing this
research 30 plus years ago, butas we've done the research
trying to understand what haschanged to lead to the uptick in
those diseases, of the typicallyaward seen in children time and
time again, we kept seeing notthe only factor, but the
(03:01):
recurring factor was dietarysugar kept coming up in our
analysis to be a significant andmodifiable factor, and it just
became so apparent that it wasan issue. And then there was a
realization that we do all thisresearch, but very few people
(03:22):
are actually able to read it.
And a lot of this was happening,really, before the before social
media took off, and I wanted towrite a book, starting about 10
years ago, by which time, youknow, social media was taking
off, there's a lot ofmisinformation starting to
happen. And I, you know, I justwanted to get the research out
(03:45):
there to the moms and dads andcaregivers that don't
necessarily see the research orread the research. And it became
my mission to try and translateit, the research, into a
practical, hands on usefulapproach that parents could
could implement in their dailylives with their kids.
(04:07):
I can see how from yourperspective, it's different from
what most of us parents thinkabout we don't want our kids to
have sugar. We'll tell them,because we know it leads to
things like cavities. We know itleads to obesity. We know it's
not good for them, but youreally understand that it can
lead to disease processes in thefuture. And so I think while
it's hard to hear that truth,it's really important to
(04:29):
understand that, yeah,so I mean, it's hard to it's
always hard to get action onlong term prevention issues,
because we're talking about1020, 30 years down the road,
but the seeds are definitelyplanted. But we've also learned
about other short term,immediate effects, not just
things like cavities and Wigginthat you mentioned, but also
(04:51):
learning and memory and abilityto focus and do well at school.
Studies are showing that thesethings are also. Impacted by too
much sugar and sweetness in thediet. So it's both the short
term and the long term effectsthat really are important, I
think, for to get kids to takeaction, we really need to kind
(05:15):
of focus on some of those short,shorter term, more internal
motivating factors that theywill notice that it will
improve, things like skinappearance, doing better at
sports, doing better in in theclassroom. These are all factors
that we've found, or otherpeople have found, to be related
(05:38):
to too much sugar, and maymotivate kids more than
getting diabetes in 20 or 30years.
That's a good point. I've heardpublic health conversations
where they talk about smoking,for example, that if you're
talking to teenagers and givingthem rationale, why not to
smoke? If you talk about lungcancer, that often falls on deaf
(06:01):
ears because it's so far out inthe future. In the future. But
if you talk to them about theirskin, how your skin will look
more clear if you don't smoke,how your teeth will look better
if you don't smoke, that seemsto resonate more with the youth,
so I can see how that would alsobe at play with sugar. Yeah.
I mean, as a parent, if you'regoing to talk to your kids about
this, you have to, you have toidentify and latch on to what
(06:23):
the intrinsic motivators aregoing to be for your kids, and
that could be very different fora five year old versus a 15 year
old.
That's true. So Dr Gordon, partof why I'm happy to have you on
is I'm looking for others to bemotivated by you, but also for
myself in my own life, I mustadmit, this is a tough time of
year, and starting in lateOctober, I have one of my kids
(06:46):
birthdays, then there'sHalloween, and then another
birthday, and then there'sThanksgiving and all the
holidays and all the holidayparties. And it's hard to be
that parent that's constantlylimiting their kids when they
feel like they are deserving oftreats and desserts. So I have
to admit that my kids have hadmore sugar recently than I wish
was true, but now that we areback in the new year, I would
(07:07):
love to get us off of thattrain. So I'm hoping that
talking to you will be the JumpStart of this motivation. Yeah,
I mean, your kids aren't theonly one. I gained a few pounds
myself over the holidays, so Ithink we're all, we're all,
we've all kind of in a similarboat, really. So it's pretty
typical, and it is a good timeto reflect on that and to make
(07:30):
changes. And I think every timeyou do that, you are less likely
to succumb the next time, or thenext or next year, maybe not
quite as bad over you know of ajourney down that path of sugar
and sweetness, but yeah, it's arecurring issue, and this is a
(07:50):
perfect time to rebootsystem. Do you and I'm curious,
do you find that sugar is trulyan addiction? People talk about
how they're addicted to sugar.
Is there validity to thatstatement,
I think there's some validity,you know, there's still some
debate on this, and I think itdepends on where you are on your
(08:12):
on the spectrum of what youthink addiction looks like, you
know, I think there's certainlytoo much sugar, and trying To
get off sugar meets many of thecriteria for for addiction,
right? It's if you want to giveit up, it's hard. If you do give
it up, you can have, you canhave side effects or cravings,
(08:33):
for example, where it's verydifficult to give it up, or you
just, just, just, just like,it's hard to give up a drug that
you're addicted to, so it sharesa lot of the common elements of
things that we know areaddictive, like tobacco, for
example. So you can call itaddictive or not, it doesn't
(08:56):
really matter. The point is thatit is hard to give up, but not
as hard as some of those otheraddictive compounds. And what we
found working with families isthat the difficult part of the
process is only a day or two.
It's not a week or two, andthere are some pretty, pretty
immediate effects after that, ofimprovement. So there are some
(09:16):
addictive elements. It's prettyclear. But the plus on the plus
side is it can be overcomepretty quickly. I
like hearing that just a day ortwo, because that's something I
think What's hard is when Ithink in my head about cutting
out sugar for a very long amountof time. Let's say I'm going to
cut out sugar for a year. Thatsounds really hard to do, but if
(09:38):
you just start with a day ortwo, that sounds much more
doable. So I like hearing thatThat's good advice. Yeah.
I mean, I think that's notalways true for everybody, and I
think that it may vary dependingon how, quote, unquote addicted
you are to sweetness or how muchyou're consuming. I don't think
(09:58):
I. Well, my philosophy, and forsure, the philosophy of sugar,
proof is that we don't need togive up all sugar forever. I
just don't think that'ssustainable or a good idea. I
mean, I don't think we need tobe depriving ourselves of the
joys of food and the pleasuresof food that we get from from
(10:21):
sweetness. The point is thatthere's, there's a lot of it,
and it's very sweet. And I thinkwe can still have that enjoyment
by moderating back to moresensible level that's not going
to have all those negativeimpacts you can get. You can get
away from those negative impactson a lower level of shoe. You
don't have to give it upcompletely to get those
(10:43):
benefits. Well, that's what'soften different. So the pure
addictive people will say, Oh,if you're smoking or drinking
and you have an addiction, youhave to give it up completely,
and you can never go back,right? So it's not, I don't view
it as that level of addiction,you can definitely scale back on
(11:04):
it, maybe cut it out for a weekor two to reset the system. But
I'm not saying that you cannever have sugar again. I just
don't think that's feasible orsustainable. You know, at a
moderated level, it's not it'snot bad for you.
Yes, and you're right. That is abig distinction between
(11:25):
something like a very addictivedrug or smoking cigarettes,
where you really are best offstopping forever. I think
learning how to have sugar inmoderation, that's the key, and
that's also really difficult,because it's so hard to stop
with just one cookie, especiallyif they're my mom's cookies,
it's really hard to stop withjust one?
Yeah, I think there's ways to doit. I think the sugar proof is
all about how you achieve that,and the more you practice, the
(11:50):
better you get at it. So that'swhy the sugar going on a sugar
fast for a week or two, evenjust a week, actually, is what
we promote in sugar proof thatthat can really reset your
internal cravings for sweetness,such that you will, next time,
(12:12):
be satisfied with one cookie,not two.
Okay, so for people that arelistening in sugar proof, that's
the book that Dr Gorinbeautifully wrote that I highly
recommend, you recommend, ifyou're in a sugar kick, just to
take a one week break from addedsugar.
One week break from added sugar.
Yeah, we have a pretty detailedplan on how to do that, because
(12:33):
it can be a little tricky. Butthe goal is to, number one, get
everybody on board in yourfamily, and if you can't,
there's a there's a plan B. Butwe'll talk. Let's talk about
Plan A for now. You know, justgo through your pantry and find
out where all the added sugar iscoming from. I'm not just I'm
(12:59):
not talking about just thosecookies from your mom, but you
know the other processed foodsin your pantry, things like
yogurts and dressings andketchups and even bread and
crackers and things like that,70% of packaged foods have added
sugar. So identify what thoseare. You know, peanut butter is
(13:23):
another one that comes up a lotwith with young kids. There's
lots of products out there.
There's lots of peanut buttersor yogurts that don't have added
sugar. Get rid of the ones thatdo. Don't buy them. Don't bring
them into the house. Don't bringsoda into the house. Don't bring
juice into the house, your kidswill have plenty of opportunity
(13:43):
to get that outside of thehouse. Okay? So just
to picture what this will looklike with my family, for
example, I will have aconversation with the kids and
let them know for one week weare not going to have added
sugar, and I'm going to talk tothem about what we're going to
remove from the pantries, removefrom the refrigerator, no juice,
nothing with added sugars. Andthen I really want to make sure
(14:04):
that they're never feelinghungry. So I want to make sure
that I have plentiful foods thatthey can have in the house.
Yeah, you know, I'm justthinking it's tricky, because
there's not a ton of options outthere, but there, well,
it depends for what you'reprobably thinking about snacks
and things like that, butthere's plenty of breakfast,
(14:25):
lunch and dinner options andeven snacks. And we do have,
actually, if your listeners areinterested, we can get them a
more detailed plan on this.
There is a plan in the book, butwe also have a PDF file with a
lot of this information as well,if they want it,
I would love that, because Ithink that's what's hard for
(14:45):
people. We want to do the rightthing. We want to buy products
that don't have that don't havemuch added sugar, but it's hard
like you get to the grocerystore and all of a sudden what
you're looking at, besidesfruits and vegetables and meats,
a lot of the cereals have addedsugar. There's a lot of, as you
mentioned, yogurts have addedsugars. So I think that would be
really helpful. I would love tosee a PDF, just to give people
(15:07):
some guidance. Yeah,I can send that to you so you
can make it available to yourlisteners. Thank you. But yeah,
so that that's what you're goingto do, and then you're going to,
you know, howold are your kids. My kids are
911, and 14, yeah, so you mighthave
a little rebellion on your handsfor the first day.
(15:29):
So you might have to talk tothem in advance to prep them a
little bit for this and what thebenefits are going to be. And
they may, they may be unhappyfor a day or two, but the
families that we worked with forthe most part after the after
that first day or two, everybodyseems to settle down and be more
(15:52):
even keeled, have better energyand just have less cravings. And
when our kids were little, weused to do this at this time of
year with our kids as well.
Definitely we'll see benefits.
And then, you know, like I said,the next time you give them
(16:14):
cookies or juice, they might bemore they're going to be more
satisfied with less sweetness.
You can definitely dampen downcravings for sweetness and
dampen down preference forsweetness.
Okay, I'm going to be motivated.
This is, this is a great this isjust what I'm looking for, some
good some good reminders andmotivation. So I also really
(16:35):
like the point how you talkabout looking at teaching your
children to read labels and tounderstand added sugar. Because
my kids, they do well withbudgets. I think thinking about
a financial budget, for example,is very fun for them. So if I
talk about added sugars as abudget, that works for them. So,
so I really appreciated yourrecommendation from the American
(16:56):
Heart Association. That's thatstipulates that kids over two
should be mindful of their addedsugars. And so my kids, who
really like budgets, we talkabout how they shouldn't go over
25 grams or 24 grams of addedsugar, and that helps. So when
we go to Trader Joe's and theywant to get a chocolate bar or
they want to get cereal, we readthe added grams of sugar. And so
(17:17):
that way it's not a no to thoseproducts, but they just know
that what they should consume,there's a limit to it. And then
it also makes them think, okay,if I know I'm going to Grandma's
house tonight and she's going tohave a good dessert, maybe
during the day, I won't have asmuch added added sugar. So
that's, I think that's a goodpoint for people listening, that
teaching your kids to readlabels can be really
(17:37):
advantageous.
Yeah, and not to the point ofmaking them feel like they're,
like, totally self monitoringeverything they're eating or
depriving themselves ofanything. So I think, you know,
there's a, there's a fine linein there.
(17:58):
Absolutely, I completely agreewith that. It's I want them to
get the idea that they can havesugar, but not too much, without
making themselves crazy andhyper focused.
Yeah, yeah. I don't think youknow, it's a guideline. So it's
not like you you know, maybeit's at first. It's a good
training tool to to kind of gainmore recognition and
(18:20):
understanding of of where theseadded sugars are coming from, we
do you do see it on the foodlabel pretty clearly where added
sugars are. But in addition towhat's labeled as added sugars,
we're also saying fruit juice,which is not labeled as an added
sugar, even though the nutritionguidelines and the labels do not
(18:44):
count it as added sugar,I also think visually, it's
helpful to show kids a teaspoonof sugar and then you explain
how much sugar is in a can ofsoda, because I think it's hard
to conceptualize how much sugarare in certain products.
Yeah, I think it's a veryimpactful lesson to count it
out. I My kids were smaller. Iwent to their school. I remember
(19:06):
my kids still have friends whoare in their 20s now, and they
said, Oh, I remember when youcame to my class and we counted
out the sugar. So, yeah. I mean,if you sit down with a cup of
tea and start spooning 12teaspoons of sugar into your
tea, and your kid says, What areyou doing? Why are you putting
so much sugar in your tea? Yousay, Well, that's how much is in
(19:28):
a can of soda.
That's insane. That's so muchsugar. And nobody would put
12 teaspoons of sugar in theirtea, right? No
one or two maybe. And I feelguilty putting 212 teaspoons of
sugar. That's really that. Ithink that visual is really
important. Okay, for people thatare listening, that are
thinking, Okay, I want to dosomething. What would you dr
(19:52):
Gorn, have today as a healthyeating day with not much sugar?
What? What foods do you like tohave in your, in your day to
day, if you're trying. To getstarted on a sugar detox. Yeah,
we are doing it. Actually. Mywife and I are doing it. As I
said, my kids are mostly gone.
For us, we sometimes will skipbreakfast because we do. We do
intermittent fasting a couple ofdays a week. But if I'm having
(20:17):
breakfast, I'll just have somescrambled eggs, maybe a small
piece of toast or some fruit oravocado or something like that.
This morning, I'm at work, and Ihad half of a burrito, which was
filled with eggs and steak. Soit's high protein, low carbs. So
(20:37):
have that in the morning, orsometimes I won't eat till like
11 or 12, and then we'll havelunch. Yesterday, we just had
some some salads, or some tunasalad, some veg. I'm not
snacking during the day. I foundthat when I do this, I'm not
(20:58):
snacking. I'll have some fruitor some nuts, and then, you
know, dinner, my wife and I docook quite a lot. I got some I
got some black cod marinating inthe fridge in miso that I'm
going to broil. Last night, wejust had some some burgers, and
last night, I had it on half abun instead of a whole bun with
(21:21):
some avocado and pickles on it.
So I think you can make thesechanges with just these small,
small modifications tomorrow.
Tomorrow's a tennis day. Sobefore Tannis, I'll eat muesli
with some plain yogurt. Big fanof plain yogurt, and this is a
(21:44):
good way to overcome the yogurtproblem, is to buy a good plain
yogurt, because you can alsoget, you know, some of the Greek
or Icelandic yogurts, very highin protein, and you get a big
boost of probiotics as well. Ilike I go to the farmer's market
every weekend, and I lovestopping at the yogurt the
(22:06):
yogurt station. They I agreewith you. I think yogurt is a
great way to get some naturalprotein. Also, I love mixing
some fruit inside. I'll put alittle bit of honey in it.
That's whatI was going to say. Like, you're
much better off starting offwith a solid base of a good
plain yogurt with, solely it'smilk and cultures, that's all it
is. And so you get a lot ofprotein. And then you can, if
(22:28):
your kids want a littlesweetness, that's okay, add a
little bit of honey, even add alittle bit of their favorite
jam. I do that sometimes just,you know, because that way you
can control it, a little bit ofmaple syrup, whatever tasty
like. And then you know exactlywhat you're getting. There's no
gum or fillers or preservatives.
(22:49):
It's just the yogurt withwhatever fruit or little thing
you want your kids want to addto it. And then it becomes like
a personal little project aswell.
Now most Americans, I find, tendto want dessert after dinner.
That's the time, as JerrySeinfeld says, that's when the
cookies really call his name. Doyou have any recommendations for
(23:11):
something that might satisfy thesweet tooth in the evening, but
that isn't added sugar?
Yeah, in those days, it could bea little square for me, a little
square of dark chocolate or somenuts or a date or a piece of
fruit. But also, you know, Ilike this. I like dessert. So I
(23:33):
think in those situations we'retalking about smaller portion
sizes, or if I'm making itmyself, which I think obviously
is preferred, or if your mom'smaking her cookies, see if you
can get her to cut out a littlebit of sugar. So if her recipe
is calling for a cup of sugar,see if she'll do with three
(23:54):
quarters of a cup of sugar. Ibet you the cookies will be just
as good, yes, and if you dothat, they won't be as sweet,
and they won't kind of light upthe addiction receptors as well
as probably, so oftentimesthey'll actually taste better
because you're not overwhelmedwith the sweet taste. You can
(24:17):
actually taste whatever kind ofa cookie it was trying to be
without all that sugar, thetaste will shine through more.
So I would use less sugar, andI'd make the cookies a bit
smaller. And if it's portioningout, you can cut a smaller
portion. We when our kids werelittle, we used to have what we
(24:38):
called mini D night. So mini Dwas just a small piece of
dessert, serve it with a nice,you know, cup of tea or herbal
tea. So it's still kind of a funcelebration. But it doesn't have
to be like a huge, you know,piece of cake, or, you know, two
whole huge cookies. You.
Somethingthat I do that I know irritates
(25:00):
my kids, but when we go out forice cream, I like to get a large
ice cream and then share itamongst my three children. And
at first they'll complain, it'snot fair, but the truth is that
even with the third portion,they are satisfied afterwards.
It's just the first few bitesthat I think people really enjoy
the most. But what they dounderstand and when I tell them
(25:23):
that we're saving money thisway, also, they do seem to
understand it. When I point outthat it's also cost savings for
the family just to get one, theyhear that point more than I'd
like you to have less addedsugar in your diet for whatever
reason.
Yeah, I wish some of the icecream shops would sell just
(25:44):
small little portions, like theysell for, like, babies or
puppies. Sometimes they'll dothat like, because that's what
I'm like, because I like icecream, but I don't need, like, a
huge bowl of it. I just like thefirst couple of bites, like you
said,Yes, agree with you. We should
start that. We should startthat. Yeah, I wish, wish we
could, because it's the samewith I mean, you can do that in
(26:07):
some situations, like if, ifyour kids like to go to your
favorite coffee shop and getwhatever crazy drink it is that
they like, that you can control.
I mean, if you ask like you, youcan ask the barista to put one
or two pumps of the syrupinstead of five or six. So you
(26:30):
can definitely be in control ofthat, or ask for that to be
controlled.
I actually, and I do that withmy kids, and when they hear me
ask for 50% sugar or half theamount of sugar. I know it
annoys them, but then when theyactually do get the drink to
your point, they can't tell thedifference. It's just as good.
They can't tell the difference.
Might even be better, but it'sstandard practice. And like the
bubble tea shops will take yourorder and they always ask you,
(26:54):
do you want full sweetness? Halfsweetness or quarter sweetness?
So it's standard practice there.
I wish it was standard practicein some of the other coffee
shops. But, you know, anotherthing I just thought of with the
ice cream. I mean, you could,could try this, what, take the
regular portion, but just havethem put it on three different
(27:14):
plates so they get good portion.
Yeah, I always I asked for acouple extra cups, and I say,
I'll pay for the extra cups. Idon't want to irritate the ice
cream shop, but it's more justprotecting my kids from not
consuming too much sugar. Yeah,those are some, those are some
tips that I do stand by, even ifmy kids don't like it. I can't
help it. I know it's best forthem.
(27:35):
Yeah. I mean, you don't want toruin the fun, because going out
for ice cream is kind of a funfamily thing to do together. So,
you know, we don't, we don'twant to, like, take the edge of
that away, and it's still tryingto keep it a fun family
experience.
That is true too. I hear thatpoint Absolutely. So I think,
(27:57):
you know, it's just, I think, asa, as a, as a parent, as a
human, it's just so hard becausethere's sugar everywhere, and so
just learning how to limit it,and just to pick and choose and
make sure when you're having it,it's a quality, worthwhile time
and experience. Yeah,that's the issue that it is,
that it is everywhere, and kidsare just kind of bombarded with
sugar, probably at school aswell, right, left and center,
(28:20):
from even from teachers orbirthday parties at school or
families bringing in cupcakes orwhatever. Again, we're not
trying to deprive it's justsomething has to change, because
it's just coming in every hourof the day from a different
direction. Yes,it's true. I The older I get. My
own mother's advice resonateswith me all the time. She used
(28:43):
to tell us when we were growingup, I don't want you to have
candy, but I'll bake for youwhenever you want. You know you
want to make if you're going tohave a treat, you want to make
it special. And baking felt morespecial. There's more effort
involved. It's homemade. So shenever deprived us of sugar, but
it was what kind of sugar are wehaving? Yeah,
you want, you want good qualityjunk. You want good charge, good
(29:05):
quality treats. If you can, ifyou can, that's right, yeah, all
right. So any other suggestionsfor parents that are looking for
motivation or for tips to thinkabout cutting back on their kids
sugar? I like the idea oflooking for sugar substitutes,
starting with a base, and thenadding in, having control,
getting regular ice cream ortreats, and then just pushing
(29:30):
out smaller amounts. If you aregoing to bake, you can add less
sugar than is that isadvertising the recipe. Try
to not bring it into the house,especially sugary beverages,
soda and juices try to makewater the default at home, your
kids will have plenty ofopportunities to get soda and
(29:52):
juices in situations which youcannot control. You
know, honestly not bringing inthe home. I do feel like that's
number one, because once it's inthe. Home and the kids know it's
there. It's really hard to sayno. It's hard for me to say no
myself, if I know there's, See'sCandy at home.
Yeah, we made a bunch ofChristmas cookies. I put them in
the freezer. I should probablythrow them away. I know, I know
(30:15):
they're in the freezer, and youknow, I'll still go in there and
take take one every now andthen. But
by the way, that's anotherimportant tip, too. I think so
many of us are afraid to throwfood away. We feel bad throwing
food away. But when it comes tojunk, it's okay. Not only do I
think it's okay, I think it'sthe better thing to do, just get
rid of it. Throw it away. It'snot healthy for you. It's not
(30:36):
healthy for anybody. Yeah, itmay sound wasteful for me to say
that, but I really do believeit, that's not good for
anything. Yeah, good point,yeah. So don't bring it to the
home. But you meant the otherthing I was mentioning, because
you did mention sugarsubstitutes. So sugar
substitutes can be a problem. Ithink you meant, you know,
(30:57):
natural sweetness is an okaysubstitute. So if you're buying
a plain yogurt and adding somehoney or maple syrup, or mashing
up a banana in there, orsomething that's that's great,
but don't fall into the trap ofsugar substitutes, aka stevia,
monk fruit, sucralose, even anaturally occurring sweeteners,
(31:22):
like I mentioned, Stevie andmonk fruit, it's not going to
solve the problem for a numberof different reasons. Number
one, we don't really know whatthese compounds are doing to
kids. Number two, it's not goingto resolve sweetness and number
three, it tastes terrible formost people, so I would much
rather make a cookie with lesssugar than make a cookie with
(31:44):
monk fruit sugar, because it'sgoing to taste better. At least
I know what I'm getting. I'm howit's going to affect my body.
It's still considered aprocessed food, even if it's
not, yeah, it'sabsolutely processed. Like,
there's this myth that monkfruit is natural, like monk
fruit is a chemical derived fromthe monk fruit in the same way
(32:06):
that Sucrose is a sugar derivedfrom sugar cane. It's a chemical
that's derived from naturethat's then used in food
processing. So it's stillprocessed. That's
a great point, because it soundshealthier when it's called monk
fruit. It sounds like it's afruit but, but that's really
(32:26):
helpful to hear that it'sactually a chemical derived from
something else. Yeah.
I mean, the FDA finally bannedred dye. You know, 20 years
later, in another 20 years,maybe they'll ban sweeteners,
because I'm we're going to findout that they're not good for
the body. We already know thatthey don't have their intended
(32:48):
effects and that they do haveadverse effects on the body. Why
are we doing this? Why are wejust not using less sugar? Why
are we putting something elseinto the diet that we don't know
what it is or how it's going toaffect the body, it just makes
no sense to me.
I also find that fruit gets abad reputation. Some people will
(33:08):
caution their children from nothaving too much mangoes or
tropical fruits or bananas.
They're worried that they're toosugary. Do you think there's
truth to that? I mean myself, Iknow there are calories that you
have to consider. But in termsof the fruit itself, I always
say to families, I've never seena child obese from over
consumption of fruit. To me, Iwould not think about fruit as
(33:29):
being a bad thing to overlyconsume.
They can't so too much fruit allat once can be an issue because
of all the fructose. Soordinarily it's not that much
fructose, and the body is ableto accommodate. That's how our
(33:50):
bodies were designed toaccommodate fructose coming in
from natural fruit. But ifyou're going to consume a
massive bowl of fruit all atonce. It might overwhelm that
that normal fructose tolerance,and you can get fructose
intolerance, evolving fructosemalabsorption, which might not
(34:13):
be waking we might get a soretummy, but we're talking massive
amounts all at once. And forkids, that doesn't tend to
happen. It's usually spread outthroughout the day. And I mean
by all by a lot, I mean likeseveral apples all at once, or a
massive bowl of of fruit salador something like that.
(34:36):
Well, do you also think, do youthink it would be helpful for
someone to reach out to a friendand have the buddy system. Hey,
let's check in. Let's talkabout, you know, how good were
you today, about not having toomuch sugar or have a contest
within the family with some sortof prize at the end? I think
that could be fun. I think thatcould be a motive, a potential
motivator. Yeah,I think there's definitely
potential. You. Uh, power, youknow, from, from, from social,
(35:01):
social networks and, you know,peer support and stuff like
that, absolutely used. We didthat a couple of years in a row.
We've used at this time of year.
We were doing for a while acollective seven day sugar
fasts. And we set up, you know,Facebook group, and we had some
(35:24):
support in place, and it was, itwas quite successful. We didn't,
we never, we were looking into,like a way to set that up in a
way that it was automated, youknow, in an app or something
like that. But when we justnever, never got that into it,
unfortunately. Allright. Well, thank you so much.
Dr Gorin, you've given me somegood tips, a lot to think about,
(35:45):
and I really, really, trulyappreciate your motivation and
your education. Thank you forall that you do. Oh,
my pleasure. Glad to be here.
Fun to talk to you. Thankyou for listening. And I hope
you enjoyed this week's episodeof Ask Dr Jessica. Also, if you
could take a moment and leave afive star review wherever it is
you listen to podcasts, I wouldgreatly appreciate it. It really
(36:06):
makes a difference to help thispodcast grow. You can also
follow me on Instagram at ask DrJessica, see you next Monday.
You.
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