February 10, 2025 • 33 mins
In this conversation, Dr. Candice Feinberg, a clinical psychologist and CEO of ROWI, a mental health center for teens. In this episode we talk about her book "No Parent Left Behind: How to Parents Teens from Love Instead of Fear". We talk about the art of setting boundaries with teens-- emphasizing the need for parents to approach parenting from a place of love rather than fear. The discussion highlights the significance of in-person connections and the necessity of seeking support when facing parenting challenges.
For more information on ROWI:
https://rowiteen.com/
And to get Dr Feinberg's book:
https://lioncrest.com/books/no-parent-left-behind-candice-feinberg/
Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.
For more content from Dr Jessica Hochman:
Instagram: @AskDrJessica
YouTube channel: Ask Dr Jessica
Website: www.askdrjessicamd.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Hi everybody. Welcome back to your child is normal,
(00:03):
the podcast where I want to helpparents worry less and connect
more. I'm your host, Dr JessicaHochman, a pediatrician and mom
of three, and today we'retackling a topic that so many
parents struggle with, teenemotions and boundary setting.
My guest today is Dr CandiceFeinberg, founder and CEO of row
e teen and parent wellnesscenters, a mental health center
dedicated to supportingteenagers and their families.
(00:24):
She's also the author of noparent left behind, how to
parent teens from love insteadof fear. In this podcast, we're
going to talk about her book, abook that helps parents
understand that, yes, bigemotions are a normal and
expected part of adolescence,and also the idea that parents
can hold space for the child'sfeelings while still maintaining
boundaries. If you've ever feltoverwhelmed by your teens mood
(00:45):
swings or struggled to setlimits without guilt, this
episode is for you now. Let'sget started. Dr Candice
Feinberg, I'm so happy to meetyou. Thank you so much for
taking the time to come on thepodcast. Yeah, my pleasure. So
tell me about yourself. Tell mewhat do you do for work?
So I'm a clinical psychologist,and I'm the CEO and founder of
(01:06):
row 18 and parent wellnesscenters.
That's amazing. And I'm just socurious what motivated you to
open a centerI was working actually for other
people prior to starting my owncompany, and they were not
clinical people, so I wasspending a lot of time really
convincing them why we had to docertain things and why things
(01:29):
were good investment for them.
And, you know, I've wanted to beable to just do good work, and
so I actually applied for asmall business loan and started
rowey with one location in 1000Oaks, and then grew it to now
we're getting ready to opennumber 18.
(01:50):
That's amazing, yeah? And telleverybody, just so they know
what rowey is and what youspecialize in, and what kind of
patients you take careof. Yeah. So rowey is an
intensive outpatient and partialhospitalization program for
teenagers between 12 to 18. Wealso have two row kids programs
for eight to 11, and it's aintense level of care for teens
(02:12):
that are that are reallystruggling. So it includes
school groups, family therapy,individual therapy, and
psychiatry. That's the partialhospitalization program, and the
intensive outpatient is an afterschool program with everything
but psychiatry for the afterschool program.
(02:33):
So what I find so interestingabout rowie is I have a lot of
families that need help. Theyneed help with their children,
and they'll see a psychologistonce a week, and maybe they'll
get help from an occupationaltherapist or maybe somebody
else. But it's just not enough.
They need more support, andthere are a lot of challenging
kids out there, and I think it'sso great that rowey exists so
(02:53):
that parents have somewhere togo to get help. So I really
applaud you for what you'vebuilt and created. Thank you.
And I can't believe you have 18centers now that's incredible.
Yeah,we do a lot of psycho education,
so teaching them about copingskills and maybe nutrition and
all the sleep hygiene andvarious things. So there's a lot
(03:17):
of different education and thenprocess or insight oriented,
where they learn to connect thedots. I do this because this
happens or why they are how theyare. And then we do individual
therapy, family therapy. Theymeet weekly with the
psychiatrist. So it's, it's apretty comprehensive program.
(03:39):
Sounds like you have a real teambuilt. Yes. And can you describe
some of the common issues orsituations, why kids are at
rowey? Yeah.
I mean, generally when, when aparent is calling to get their
kid help, they've usually waitedtoo long, right? So at this
point, there's been some prettysignificant impairment in in
(04:03):
their kids functioning, and itmay be that something happened
at school where they gotsuspended, or it could be that
they're refusing to go to schooland won't get out of bed, and
they generally are not workingright. Their hygiene might be
suffering, refusing to go toschool, or they're getting bad,
(04:25):
bad grades, but something gotthe parents to call
to seek help, very nice.
Oh, yeah. I mean, we've had somany parents who said that we
gave them their kid back, or wesaved their kids life. I mean,
there's a lot of a lot of greatstories that have come out of
(04:45):
rowey. It's so rewarding.
Yep, very rewarding. And I'mjust curious, you don't have to
have an answer to this question,but do you see it growing even
more? Or where do you see roweygoing in the future?
Oh, yeah, we're gonna continueto grow, for sure. I mean.
There's not a lot of programslike this, and we are specific
also to mental health. So wedon't treat eating disorders, we
(05:08):
don't treat substance abuse, wejust treat mental health. And I
think we're probably the onlyprogram that that can say that.
So there's a lot of a lot ofcommunities that still don't
have access to a rowey.
I mean, what a wonderful serviceyou provide. I think, honestly,
it's so nice to know that youare out there, and I'm hoping
(05:29):
that by talking with you, maybesomebody listening knows of a
friend or a family member orsomebody in their community that
would benefit from a programlike rowey. So and just to ask
this, because I know this is thequestion that everybody thinks
about, but maybe afraid to ask,what would a family expect the
cost to look likewe are. We are almost
predominantly insurance, soprobably 98% insurance covered
treatment. We try, we've triedto be contracted in a network
(05:54):
with men, with most of the bigproviders, so the cost is
whatever is left in theirdeductible and their co pay.
It's amazing. That's great tohear. I was nervous for what
you're going to respond to thatquestion. So, yeah, no, I taking
insurance. That's a great, greatthing to hear.
Yeah, I always wanted that to belike reasonable, where they're
(06:15):
not having to take too much timeoff work, which can be
incredibly stressful forparents, and also not cost
prohibited. Sothank you for explaining, rowie,
I really appreciate you paintinga picture of what it's like and
understanding who who you serve.
I didn't realize that it wasjust specifically for mental
health, so that's great to know.
Now I'd love to ask you, youwrote a book. So I would love to
ask you about it.
(06:38):
Yes, I did. I wrote a book. Iwrote a book for the parents of
the kids that we work with.
Yeah. Tell us. Tell us the titlethe book. The book is
no parent left behind, and it'sabout parenting from love
instead of fear. Andthe book in particular is geared
towards parents of teens,correct,
(06:58):
correct. It's geared towardsparents of teens that are
struggling with mental healthissues. It's very it was 100%
written for the parents of thekids we serve.
Amazing. Okay, and then I knowone of the points that you talk
about, which I think is soimportant, is talking about how
to set boundaries in a way thatteenagers can feel safe and that
(07:21):
that can engender trust for theteens. Can you explain that a
little more? What you mean bythat
kids need boundaries in theirjob as teens, especially, their
job is to push your boundaries,right? So like when I talk about
boundaries, I'm talking aboutit's a structure that helps them
manage their emotions, that'sit's predictable, that it's
(07:42):
clear, and that you have followthrough with with the boundaries
you set. And again, it's there.
If the kids job is to push theboundaries. And I always tell
the parents, if you can enforcethat, then okay, but if you
can't, then don't set that.
Don't set that boundary orexpectation, because if you
can't enforce it, then the onesyou you know, the other ones,
(08:05):
they'll push against everything.
And doyou find they don't generally
enforce boundaries becausethey're parenting from a place
of fear, that they're afraid ofwhat their child will do, or how
they will or how they willrespond? Yeah. I
mean, I had a mom once that toldme, like her son told her he was
going to kill himself if shedidn't turn the Internet back
on. And I said, Well, pleasetell me you didn't turn the
(08:28):
internet on, because what areyou going to do next by him a
BMW? I mean, you just can't givein to that. You have to take him
and get him assessed at thehospital when he says something
like that, and let him know youtake it seriously, but, but,
yeah, no. Parents are definitelyafraid of their kids. They're
afraid of them hurtingthemselves or others. They're
afraid of them falling behind inschool. When something goes
(08:51):
wrong in your kid's life, it's anatural for a parent to
catastrophize. You know, they'renever going to go to college,
they're never going to getmarried, they're never, you
know, like worrying abouteverything and nothing good
comes from that sotrue. I mean, I have a teenager
myself, and sometimes I know Ineed to say no to her, but I'm
afraid of the reaction that I'mgoing to get from her, and so
(09:13):
sometimes I avoid confrontingher because I don't want to deal
with the reaction. So you'reright. I think I can admit that
I am one of those parents thatsometimes I am afraid of my
children's reaction. I wish Iwasn't, but it is true.
Yeah, I've had so many videossent to me of parents, when they
take they I don't know why theyvideotape this or why they send
it to me, but videotaping takingtechnology away from their kid,
(09:37):
just just so that, because theyprobably think you can't imagine
the reaction, so I'm going toshow you what it looks like, and
it's scary. Thatwas actually going to be my next
question. The conversation thatI have with parents, where they
are the most afraid to say no totheir kids, by far and away, is
technology. They're so afraid totake the phone away, they're so.
(09:58):
Afraid to take social mediaaway. They're so afraid to take
video games away, even whenparents clearly know it's not
benefiting their child, andthat's that it's not helping
their life and that they need toscale back on the technology.
They have a hard time saying no.
So what would what is yourgeneral advice to parents in
that situation?
I mean, I keep waiting for thenext generation of parents that
(10:21):
knows better that because, youknow, the My first question, and
that popped into my head was,who gave it to them in the first
place? Right? Like, where'd theyget the technology? They didn't
go sign up for a phone, right?
Right? I mean, it's starting soyoung, where you see in
restaurants, they can't sitthrough a dinner without, you
know, having the iPad propped infront of them. So, you know, it
(10:43):
starts. It starts as aconvenience for us, right? We
give it to them to entertainthem as a babysitter, keep them
quiet and content. You know,when, when I was kid, I love
telling these stories. You know,I could stare out the window and
daydream for hours in the car. Ididn't have to have something a
(11:05):
screen to look at in front ofme. There didn't exist. And kids
have lost that ability to sortof create, have creative thought
and to deal with boredom. Youknow, my kids are now 29 and 31
and I think this, the smartphonecame out in 2010 so that wasn't,
you know, it wasn't in existenceas they were children, that it
(11:27):
came later. But the but the kidsnow, have never been without it.
With technology, it's a it's adouble edged sword, where you,
can't function in this worldwithout it. You can't apply for
a job. You can't apply forcollege. There's so many things
that even school, you know youduring COVID, the kids were
(11:52):
dependent on technology to gettheir education done. So these
kids know better than we did,right? So my kids are way more
savvy with a computer than I am,but they're going to be the
smart one. So So hopefullythat'll shift, but so you you
also have to teach them. I thinkit was my son told me the
(12:12):
Internet is a dark place. And Iwas like, not my internet. My
internet's pretty. It's notdark, right? So just puppies and
rainbows,right? Like, I'm not, I'm not
looking for dark things. I'mlooking for the flower shop or,
you know, so, so my internet'snot dark, and that was like
startling to me. But ifsomebody's, if somebody's
(12:35):
struggling or in a dark place,they're going to be searching
for dark things, and they'regoing to find them. And so the
and this is true whether it's inonline or in the real world,
right? You could drive down themain boulevard in your town, and
if you're hungry, you're goingto see all the restaurants,
right? And but if you're not,you won't see them at all.
(12:56):
You'll see whatever is ofinterest to you. And so teaching
the kids how to look both waysbefore crossing the street on
the internet is important. Sothey have to, they have to be
taught how we have to be taughthow to survive in this world.
They have to be taught how tosurvive in the in the cyber
(13:17):
world. And and they needcontrols, right? We don't just
say, we just don't say to atoddler like, you know, don't,
don't go down the stairs. We putgates up. So we've to, you know,
it has to be, there has to be abetter way of us educating kids
on how to use the internet, onthe access they have to the
internet, because eliminating itis not an option. It's it's here
(13:40):
to stay. It's here tostay. I agree with that. I I
think the issue that I have ishow young kids are starting on
social media. That's somethingthat I see all the time, and
parents when they hearrecommendations that their
children should be on socialmedia starting at an older age.
For example, Jonathan, Jonathanheights, new book The anxious
the anxious generationrecommends starting social media
(14:01):
at 16. And I have parents wherethey have 1011, 12 year olds,
and they say, well, it's toolate. This is where they see
their friends. Snapchat is howthey get together with their
friends, how they communicate.
The video games is where theysee their friends, and they feel
like taking it away would beharmful to their social life,
into their mental health. Butwhat do you think about that? I
(14:23):
maybe the more realistic answeris to set limits. Is that
possibletake it away when they're just
so young?
No, I think, I mean, I think Iunderstand, like I never had to
deal with that, and I'm reallygrateful for that, but I do see
that it is there are somesituations where what they're
saying is true, right? Theirkids are more social. They are
(14:46):
they are connecting with theirfriends and their peers, and
they and those kids are alsoinvolved in clubs at school and
after school activities andplaying sports and doing things
those. Kids aren't the that'snot the problem, right? It's the
kids that are on the internetand won't come out of their
room, yeah? So, so you so ifyour kid is saying, Well, I'm
(15:08):
using it to see my friends andthey're not leaving their room,
right? Then, then, then it is aproblem. I mean, I think it's
funny, because every time we'vehad any kind of technology
that's been created. And thisgoes back to even when, in
Plato's Phaedrus, it wasSocrates was, you know, saying
(15:29):
about the written language. No,you'll people will not learn how
to talk to each other. It'sterrible. Written language is
awful. And and, you know, they,they threw the Telegraph in the
ocean. And every technology has,they've said has been horrible
and so bad, and really, the onlyone that did decrease social
stuff was television, becausethat's a one way, that's a one
(15:52):
way communication system. And sothe internet has made kids more
social, and it has made kidsmore engaged in in activities
and clubs and things, but it'salso done the opposite. So it's
not, it's not the it's not theinternet by itself that should
get the bad rap. It's the useruser error. What
(16:15):
I always tell my children is,there's no substitute for in
person connection. So you mayhave a conversation over text or
on social media, but there is nobetter memory created than when
you are with somebody in reallife. And so I agree with you.
If kids are active, they're inclubs or in sports, and they're
seeing their friends that way,and then they happen to talk on
(16:36):
the side using their phones,okay, but if it's their only
means of connection that can'tbe healthy. No,
no, for sure. And kids, I mean,one of the biggest challenges we
have with the kids, and I thinkone of the leading causes of
depression and anxiety, is alack of social skills, with the
inability for them to readpeople's faces and and be, you
(16:59):
know, be comfortable. There's a,there's a there's a ton of
social anxiety, and a lot ofmoments at school where I, I
call it social suicide, wherethe kid says something
inappropriate or doesn't read aconversation Well, and then they
say something then, then theyget, you know, blacklisted from
that group, that friend group,and, and, and so what I've seen
(17:22):
is just an incredible lack ofsocial skills that's causing a
lot of issues. Sowhen you talk to parents about
these issues, do you empowerthem that it's okay to set
limits and boundaries, and whatwould that conversation look
like with their teen? Like,let's say their teen says, Mom,
I can't stop social media. Thisis my friend group. If you took
away my phone, you'll be causingsocial suicide, and they'll and
(17:45):
they throw out some sort ofthreat. How would you respond to
the teenager?
I mean, you're, you're payingfor them to have access to that,
to that device. So you own, youown the rights to it. You get to
control if their grades aresuffering. I mean, if a kid is,
(18:05):
you know, is playing sports,doing well in school, has good
relationships with their peers,has good relationships with you.
It's not an issue, right? It'sonly an issue when, when the
rest whenever, when all theother pieces start falling. So
when those pieces start falling,then you set expectations. You
can you can go on the internetor social media. When your
(18:29):
grades come back up, if youattend school, if you do your
chore, you know there's like youyou set whatever your priorities
are and and so they have. It'snot that you're taking it away,
it's that they have to earn it.
Yes,and I think you're right about
how helpful it can be to setboundaries from the outset. For
example, my 14 year old, she'shad a phone now for a year. It
(18:50):
can only talk and text. There'sno internet capabilities on her
phone, but we had a longconversation before she got her
phone, because, quite frankly, Iwas really nervous for her to
get a phone, because I see kidsin my office all the time. I
walk in the room, they don'tmake eye contact with me. They
like their phone. Has to be bytheir side. They can't stop
looking at their phone, evenduring visits. And so it
terrifies me that my daughterwill become like that so
(19:13):
dependent on a phone from such ayoung age, and I know it's only
going to get worse, or maybe I'mwrong, but the trajectory is
scary to me too. So I what wedid was we wrote a contract. We
wrote a very detailed contractof what I was expecting from
her, how long she should be onher phone. You know, what she
could what she could do with herphone. So for example, it was
(19:34):
very important to me that whenshe has dinner with us, that
she's not on her phone, or thatif we go on vacation, I don't
lose her to her phone. And so weclearly delineated that in the
contract. I guess I'm sayingthis out loud for any parent
listening, that you can do thattoo. You can write a contract.
You can be very clear with yourexpectations. And to your point,
as you mentioned at the verybeginning of discussing your
(19:56):
book, how important is to setboundaries and. She breaks those
boundaries that I follow throughwith a disciplinary action. So
in her case, if she doesn'tfollow it, I'm going to take her
phone away for a few days. Idon't remember what's on the
contract, but I think I take herphone away for 72 hours.
Yeah, no, that's perfect. AndI've told the I've written many
of those contracts for withfamilies. And you know, the
(20:19):
parents will call me and say,well, this happened. I go, Well,
what's the contract say? Like,right? What does it say that you
okay, that's what you have todo. And that's why I'm always if
you can't enforce something,then don't put it in there. Put
what you can enforce. And theother thing that came to mind is
looking at your yourrelationship with the phone and
(20:40):
technology, and are you? Do youhave your phone out at the
table, and so setting thestandards for for your family
and what the expectations are?
I completely agree with you,because it's true, parents, we
ourselves are terrible. I lookaround at parents all the time,
at restaurants out and about.
This morning, I was in line toget coffee. Every single person
online was staring at theirphone. So you're right. We're
(21:01):
asking a lot of our teens if wecan't be good role models
ourselves. And you bring up agreat you bring up a great point
about acting with respect toothers as well, because our kids
are watching us. So they watchhow we talk about people. They
watch what we say about people,what we what we remark about
people on the internet. So greatreminder to parents that we
should also act as we want ourkids to act. We want to we want
(21:22):
to be good role models for ourchildren.
I have a game I play atStarbucks. I go watch the line,
and it's just, I think itsomeone gets in line, and it not
more than a minute goes bybefore they're pulling their
phone out to stare at it andcheck it for, I'm not sure what,
but there, there is, if you lookat the line, it's every person
(21:43):
with their head down. And Isaid, I said to my son the other
day, I'm like, you know,sometimes I'll talk to the
person in line in front of me,and they just look at me like,
I'm weird, like, I'm strange.
Like, why is she talking to me?
But it used to be normal.
Used to be normal. And also, Ithink there's an element of
contagion. If I'm next tosomeone online and they pull out
their phone, then I think, Oh, Iguess I should pull out my
(22:05):
phone. So it is true that rolemodeling does make a difference.
I believe, yes, 100% now anotherquestion I want to ask you,
because I think this is suchthis would be such a helpful
topic to hear from you about,but you talk in your book about
how parents can respond to theemotional outbursts of teens. Do
(22:25):
you have any advice from theoutset, some practical ways for
parents to respond to the momentwhen their kids do have an
outburst?
Yeah, I think what we generallydo is that we it escalates. Us.
Right? Our kid escalates and weescalate. Nothing productive
comes from that. And then I havea saying, all feelings are
(22:46):
welcome. So can be angry or sador frustrated, whatever it is,
right? All feelings are welcome.
So validate that. What howthey're feeling. And then, and
then you can, you know, talkthem through it later. You know,
when they're completelydysregulated their emotions and
they're overreacting tosomething you're not going to
(23:08):
make any sense to them or getthrough to them or convince them
of anything in that moment. Soyou know, you in the moment, you
allow them to express theirfeelings, and then discuss with
them other ways that they could,they could share, you know,
what's going on with them. But Ithink that all too often what we
(23:29):
do is just shut it down, or wetell them, Oh, don't. You
shouldn't feel that way, ordon't do that, or that's not
appropriate. And in, you know,sometimes there are times where
it's, you know, not appropriateto express certain feelings in
certain places, but when youhave the opportunity to to
empathize with them. And yeah,it sucks. I know, yeah, empathy
(23:50):
goes a long way. Absolutely goesa long it goes a long way. And
in if you engage in a in aargument with a teenager, you're
gonna lose. You are losingbecause it's a new found skill
for them in this and they allwant to argue. They want to
argue about everything. I've hadso many parents say my kid's
gonna would make such a greatlawyer. They love to argue. And
(24:13):
I'm like, No, it's they're justpracticing. They don't love to
argue. It'll they'll grow out ofit eventually. Yeah,
I had a parent tell me thisweek. They said, Oh, is your kid
at the stage yet where they tellyou don't know anything? I said,
we're not, we're not there yet.
They're like, just give it alittle bit of time. You'll,
you'll be there soon. They alllike to tell us that we don't
know anything. Yep,yeah. And then when they're, you
(24:33):
know, when they turn 25 they'relike, Wow, you learned fast.
Yes, yes. I, I will admit formyself, something that I would
I'm always trying to work on asa parent, is I have a hard time
with screaming and yelling. Myhusband is much better at it. I
think maybe I'm more sensitiveto it. I just want to end, you
know, I'm always happy to talkand hear problems and
(24:53):
brainstorm, but I have a hardtime when, when they're, you
know, when there are outbursts.
And I was talking to my husbandabout. Other day, said, how, how
do you not hear it? How am I somuch more sensitive than you
are? And he said, You know, Itry to appreciate the stage of
parenting. I just, I just lookat it as a stage, and I want to
appreciate it. And someday we'renot going to have teens anymore
(25:14):
at our house. So I thought, Wow,what a what a healthy outlook,
and I'm trying to use him as myinfluence, because I think as
parents, it can be easy to getsucked into it when really it's
just a normal part of theirexistence as teenagers,
yeah, no, it is definitely adevelopmental stage, and they
grow out of it. It's so mucheasier for me to do this with
(25:37):
somebody else's children than myown. So same.
Yes, I agree. I agree. I if Isee a parent here at work, I'm
always happy to give advice andbrainstorm, but then I can see
in my own life if, yeah,especially something like an
emotional outburst, very trickyand hard to stay calm in the
moment, but it does make a bigdifference. I agree, leading
with empathy, I think is greatadvice. Yeah,
(25:59):
I have a I have a technique thatI teach our therapist is that,
you know, particularly in familywork, it can be pretty high
conflict, and when you're rightthere, it's easy to get sucked
into it. So if you like, imagineyou're in a theater and you're
you put yourself in the backrow, so you create a little
distance to where you're just anobserver and you're watching,
(26:21):
and when you can observe it, yousee it from a different
perspective, and you don't havethat emotional pull.
That's great. So just view it asI'm an observer. I'm watching
this play out, but I don't haveto play into it, right? That's
great. I love that. Do you haveany other practical ways for
parents to respond in the momentof an emotional outburst? I
mean,there's so many every there's so
(26:41):
many things, you know, to findyour pause button, right? Find a
shiny object, like I always say,you know, when I was in
residential and I had a kid thatwould was about to, about to
blow, I would be like, you wantto come take the trash out with
me. Or, Oh, look at the look atthe squirrel in that tree. Or
just anything to kind of sort ofdistract and and bring it down.
(27:02):
Because, you know, engaging withthem is just never, it's never
going to work. So, so I, I myshiny object is my other go to,
yes, I once heard a techniquejust saying, Do you guys mind if
we take a pause on this fightand come back to it later? Can
we do something else and we'llcome, we'll come back to it.
We'll come back to it. We'llcome back to it an hour. We'll
(27:23):
come back to it tomorrow. Andit's amazing how if you can, if
you can, if you can take a breakand come back to it, the
conversation tends to be a lotmore, a lot more calmer and a
lot easier to have.
Yeah, the secret is catching itbefore it gets to that point
where you're gonna fight nomatter what, like you just,
you've already gotten yourselfthere, and you're gonna fight.
(27:44):
So if you can recognize it inyourself or in your loved one
before, and find a way to like,where this isn't, we're gonna,
we're gonna find pause here.
Okay, so,so just to bring it back. So
your strategy, your reminder toparents, or your overall message
in your book, is to think aboutparenting them from a place of
love and not being afraid ofthem. Yes, not being and not
being afraid of their reactionto your parenting. And
(28:10):
not parenting out of fear, notmaking choices out of fear. And
it's hard to tell the differencesometimes, because parents will
say, Well, I did that because Ilove them, and we know if we dig
into it a little bit. So this isfun one. So I'm, I do tell a
(28:31):
parenting fail failure story ineach chapter of my book. So I
did my son's eighth gradescience fair project because he
told me the night before it wasdue, and I can write a research
paper. I mean, it was good. Itwent to the big fair for the
whole city, and he got to getout of school. I'm like, You
better read that, becausethey're going to ask you about
it. But I I can easily justifythat I did that because I love
(28:57):
him and I didn't want him tofall behind or be ashamed that
he didn't have it done becauseit was a big thing, and all of
that is easy to justify, right?
But I that's not the truth. Thetruth is I did it out of fear,
my own fear of him fallingbehind or getting in trouble, or
having his self esteem hurt orwhatever it was. It was my
fears. It if I the parentingchoice of love is to let him
deal with the naturalconsequences of it, right? And
(29:20):
and so again, sometimes it'seasy. We try to justify what
we're doing, um, as parentingfrom love, but it, but it's
usually coming out of fear, andthat's where nothing good comes.
Sometimesit's tricky. Sometimes there's a
gray zone with this, because,for example, I'm thinking, last
week, my daughter left herInvisalign at home. You know, I
(29:40):
pay for her Invisalign. She leftit at home. And she said, Mommy,
can you go home and get myInvisalign? And I said, No, I'm
going to be late to work. Ican't get your Invisalign. And
she was upset with me that Iwouldn't, that I wouldn't do
that for her. I was going tomess up her teeth, but you have
to hold the boundary. And I justfigured, there's so many
situations where parents. Also,you know, we have to pay for a
(30:00):
little bit too, so to speak. Butthat's how they learn their
lesson. I can't save the day forher with everything,
right? I think, I mean, I thinksometimes, when people, parents
will, we do that often, it'slunch, right? And so they, they
take their kids lunch to them,well, they're not going to
starve, you know, we thinkthey're going to starve, right?
(30:21):
They're not going to starvewithout lunch for one day, and
they'll probably end up eatinghalf of their friend's lunch
anyway, so, and that might evenhappen if they take their lunch.
So it's really making those,those choices, but we know why
we do things, right? We know wasthis for me or for them? They
don't know. They ask you to doit. You your reason for doing it
(30:42):
or not doing it, you know that,but they don't.
Right of parenting is so tricky,so hard.
I mean, someone asked me theother day, when do you know if
your kid needs help with orneeds to go get you know, see
somebody for their mentalhealth? And I said, Well, would
you ask me that question? If itwere physical health? Would you
ask me, like, Well, how do Iknow when to take a kid to the
(31:03):
doctor? Well, we take them everyyear. We take them for wellness,
for well, checkups, right? Whycan't we do that with mental
health? Why can't we approachmental health like that, and you
and I could go to treatment andwe're going to improve and get
better. So, so yeah, anybodythat has teenagers. A lot of the
stuff we talked about, isn't it?
These weren't issues that werethat were because of a mental
(31:27):
health these are just lifeissues, right for getting things
for school and and too much timeon social media and all these
things. So so, yeah, any parentcan learn how to better maneuver
the teenage years.
Well. Thank you so much. Anybefore we close, any final words
of wisdom or anything you'd liketo impart upon parents before we
(31:49):
finish off, youknow, I think just reach out to
somebody if you have anyquestions and or concerns about
any behaviors, and even if it'sjust a girlfriend, what would
you do in this situation? Butyou know, get outside of get get
outside of your own experienceand and get support. Because
there's a whole there's a wholeworld out there that that wants
to help. That'sgreat advice, because I do think
(32:12):
sometimes the behavior of ourchildren can feel embarrassing
to talk about. And I promiseyou, parents listening, you are
not alone. Children have theirmoments. They can be difficult,
but please don't struggle alone.
Reach out and get help. And Ithink that is very true and wise
advice. Thank you. Thank you.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on here, and any parents
(32:34):
that are listening. If rowieSounds like a good fit for
anybody that you know,definitely check out the
website. I will link it below inthe show notes. And thank you so
much, Dr Candice Feinberg, forthe work that you do and for
coming on the podcast.
I really appreciate it. That wasmy pleasure. Thank you. Thank
youfor listening, and I hope you
enjoyed this week's episode ofyour child is normal. Also, if
you could take a moment andleave a five star review,
(32:56):
wherever it is you listen topodcasts, I would greatly
appreciate it. It really makes adifference to help this podcast
grow. You can also follow me onInstagram at ask Dr Jessica, see
you next Monday. You.
Hi everybody. Welcome back to your child is normal,
(00:03):
the podcast where I want to helpparents worry less and connect
more. I'm your host, Dr JessicaHochman, a pediatrician and mom
of three, and today we'retackling a topic that so many
parents struggle with, teenemotions and boundary setting.
My guest today is Dr CandiceFeinberg, founder and CEO of row
e teen and parent wellnesscenters, a mental health center
dedicated to supportingteenagers and their families.
(00:24):
She's also the author of noparent left behind, how to
parent teens from love insteadof fear. In this podcast, we're
going to talk about her book, abook that helps parents
understand that, yes, bigemotions are a normal and
expected part of adolescence,and also the idea that parents
can hold space for the child'sfeelings while still maintaining
boundaries. If you've ever feltoverwhelmed by your teens mood
(00:45):
swings or struggled to setlimits without guilt, this
episode is for you now. Let'sget started. Dr Candice
Feinberg, I'm so happy to meetyou. Thank you so much for
taking the time to come on thepodcast. Yeah, my pleasure. So
tell me about yourself. Tell mewhat do you do for work?
So I'm a clinical psychologist,and I'm the CEO and founder of
(01:06):
row 18 and parent wellnesscenters.
That's amazing. And I'm just socurious what motivated you to
open a centerI was working actually for other
people prior to starting my owncompany, and they were not
clinical people, so I wasspending a lot of time really
convincing them why we had to docertain things and why things
(01:29):
were good investment for them.
And, you know, I've wanted to beable to just do good work, and
so I actually applied for asmall business loan and started
rowey with one location in 1000Oaks, and then grew it to now
we're getting ready to opennumber 18.
(01:50):
That's amazing, yeah? And telleverybody, just so they know
what rowey is and what youspecialize in, and what kind of
patients you take careof. Yeah. So rowey is an
intensive outpatient and partialhospitalization program for
teenagers between 12 to 18. Wealso have two row kids programs
for eight to 11, and it's aintense level of care for teens
(02:12):
that are that are reallystruggling. So it includes
school groups, family therapy,individual therapy, and
psychiatry. That's the partialhospitalization program, and the
intensive outpatient is an afterschool program with everything
but psychiatry for the afterschool program.
(02:33):
So what I find so interestingabout rowie is I have a lot of
families that need help. Theyneed help with their children,
and they'll see a psychologistonce a week, and maybe they'll
get help from an occupationaltherapist or maybe somebody
else. But it's just not enough.
They need more support, andthere are a lot of challenging
kids out there, and I think it'sso great that rowey exists so
(02:53):
that parents have somewhere togo to get help. So I really
applaud you for what you'vebuilt and created. Thank you.
And I can't believe you have 18centers now that's incredible.
Yeah,we do a lot of psycho education,
so teaching them about copingskills and maybe nutrition and
all the sleep hygiene andvarious things. So there's a lot
(03:17):
of different education and thenprocess or insight oriented,
where they learn to connect thedots. I do this because this
happens or why they are how theyare. And then we do individual
therapy, family therapy. Theymeet weekly with the
psychiatrist. So it's, it's apretty comprehensive program.
(03:39):
Sounds like you have a real teambuilt. Yes. And can you describe
some of the common issues orsituations, why kids are at
rowey? Yeah.
I mean, generally when, when aparent is calling to get their
kid help, they've usually waitedtoo long, right? So at this
point, there's been some prettysignificant impairment in in
(04:03):
their kids functioning, and itmay be that something happened
at school where they gotsuspended, or it could be that
they're refusing to go to schooland won't get out of bed, and
they generally are not workingright. Their hygiene might be
suffering, refusing to go toschool, or they're getting bad,
(04:25):
bad grades, but something gotthe parents to call
to seek help, very nice.
Oh, yeah. I mean, we've had somany parents who said that we
gave them their kid back, or wesaved their kids life. I mean,
there's a lot of a lot of greatstories that have come out of
(04:45):
rowey. It's so rewarding.
Yep, very rewarding. And I'mjust curious, you don't have to
have an answer to this question,but do you see it growing even
more? Or where do you see roweygoing in the future?
Oh, yeah, we're gonna continueto grow, for sure. I mean.
There's not a lot of programslike this, and we are specific
also to mental health. So wedon't treat eating disorders, we
(05:08):
don't treat substance abuse, wejust treat mental health. And I
think we're probably the onlyprogram that that can say that.
So there's a lot of a lot ofcommunities that still don't
have access to a rowey.
I mean, what a wonderful serviceyou provide. I think, honestly,
it's so nice to know that youare out there, and I'm hoping
(05:29):
that by talking with you, maybesomebody listening knows of a
friend or a family member orsomebody in their community that
would benefit from a programlike rowey. So and just to ask
this, because I know this is thequestion that everybody thinks
about, but maybe afraid to ask,what would a family expect the
cost to look likewe are. We are almost
predominantly insurance, soprobably 98% insurance covered
treatment. We try, we've triedto be contracted in a network
(05:54):
with men, with most of the bigproviders, so the cost is
whatever is left in theirdeductible and their co pay.
It's amazing. That's great tohear. I was nervous for what
you're going to respond to thatquestion. So, yeah, no, I taking
insurance. That's a great, greatthing to hear.
Yeah, I always wanted that to belike reasonable, where they're
(06:15):
not having to take too much timeoff work, which can be
incredibly stressful forparents, and also not cost
prohibited. Sothank you for explaining, rowie,
I really appreciate you paintinga picture of what it's like and
understanding who who you serve.
I didn't realize that it wasjust specifically for mental
health, so that's great to know.
Now I'd love to ask you, youwrote a book. So I would love to
ask you about it.
(06:38):
Yes, I did. I wrote a book. Iwrote a book for the parents of
the kids that we work with.
Yeah. Tell us. Tell us the titlethe book. The book is
no parent left behind, and it'sabout parenting from love
instead of fear. Andthe book in particular is geared
towards parents of teens,correct,
(06:58):
correct. It's geared towardsparents of teens that are
struggling with mental healthissues. It's very it was 100%
written for the parents of thekids we serve.
Amazing. Okay, and then I knowone of the points that you talk
about, which I think is soimportant, is talking about how
to set boundaries in a way thatteenagers can feel safe and that
(07:21):
that can engender trust for theteens. Can you explain that a
little more? What you mean bythat
kids need boundaries in theirjob as teens, especially, their
job is to push your boundaries,right? So like when I talk about
boundaries, I'm talking aboutit's a structure that helps them
manage their emotions, that'sit's predictable, that it's
(07:42):
clear, and that you have followthrough with with the boundaries
you set. And again, it's there.
If the kids job is to push theboundaries. And I always tell
the parents, if you can enforcethat, then okay, but if you
can't, then don't set that.
Don't set that boundary orexpectation, because if you
can't enforce it, then the onesyou you know, the other ones,
(08:05):
they'll push against everything.
And doyou find they don't generally
enforce boundaries becausethey're parenting from a place
of fear, that they're afraid ofwhat their child will do, or how
they will or how they willrespond? Yeah. I
mean, I had a mom once that toldme, like her son told her he was
going to kill himself if shedidn't turn the Internet back
on. And I said, Well, pleasetell me you didn't turn the
(08:28):
internet on, because what areyou going to do next by him a
BMW? I mean, you just can't givein to that. You have to take him
and get him assessed at thehospital when he says something
like that, and let him know youtake it seriously, but, but,
yeah, no. Parents are definitelyafraid of their kids. They're
afraid of them hurtingthemselves or others. They're
afraid of them falling behind inschool. When something goes
(08:51):
wrong in your kid's life, it's anatural for a parent to
catastrophize. You know, they'renever going to go to college,
they're never going to getmarried, they're never, you
know, like worrying abouteverything and nothing good
comes from that sotrue. I mean, I have a teenager
myself, and sometimes I know Ineed to say no to her, but I'm
afraid of the reaction that I'mgoing to get from her, and so
(09:13):
sometimes I avoid confrontingher because I don't want to deal
with the reaction. So you'reright. I think I can admit that
I am one of those parents thatsometimes I am afraid of my
children's reaction. I wish Iwasn't, but it is true.
Yeah, I've had so many videossent to me of parents, when they
take they I don't know why theyvideotape this or why they send
it to me, but videotaping takingtechnology away from their kid,
(09:37):
just just so that, because theyprobably think you can't imagine
the reaction, so I'm going toshow you what it looks like, and
it's scary. Thatwas actually going to be my next
question. The conversation thatI have with parents, where they
are the most afraid to say no totheir kids, by far and away, is
technology. They're so afraid totake the phone away, they're so.
(09:58):
Afraid to take social mediaaway. They're so afraid to take
video games away, even whenparents clearly know it's not
benefiting their child, andthat's that it's not helping
their life and that they need toscale back on the technology.
They have a hard time saying no.
So what would what is yourgeneral advice to parents in
that situation?
I mean, I keep waiting for thenext generation of parents that
(10:21):
knows better that because, youknow, the My first question, and
that popped into my head was,who gave it to them in the first
place? Right? Like, where'd theyget the technology? They didn't
go sign up for a phone, right?
Right? I mean, it's starting soyoung, where you see in
restaurants, they can't sitthrough a dinner without, you
know, having the iPad propped infront of them. So, you know, it
(10:43):
starts. It starts as aconvenience for us, right? We
give it to them to entertainthem as a babysitter, keep them
quiet and content. You know,when, when I was kid, I love
telling these stories. You know,I could stare out the window and
daydream for hours in the car. Ididn't have to have something a
(11:05):
screen to look at in front ofme. There didn't exist. And kids
have lost that ability to sortof create, have creative thought
and to deal with boredom. Youknow, my kids are now 29 and 31
and I think this, the smartphonecame out in 2010 so that wasn't,
you know, it wasn't in existenceas they were children, that it
(11:27):
came later. But the but the kidsnow, have never been without it.
With technology, it's a it's adouble edged sword, where you,
can't function in this worldwithout it. You can't apply for
a job. You can't apply forcollege. There's so many things
that even school, you know youduring COVID, the kids were
(11:52):
dependent on technology to gettheir education done. So these
kids know better than we did,right? So my kids are way more
savvy with a computer than I am,but they're going to be the
smart one. So So hopefullythat'll shift, but so you you
also have to teach them. I thinkit was my son told me the
(12:12):
Internet is a dark place. And Iwas like, not my internet. My
internet's pretty. It's notdark, right? So just puppies and
rainbows,right? Like, I'm not, I'm not
looking for dark things. I'mlooking for the flower shop or,
you know, so, so my internet'snot dark, and that was like
startling to me. But ifsomebody's, if somebody's
(12:35):
struggling or in a dark place,they're going to be searching
for dark things, and they'regoing to find them. And so the
and this is true whether it's inonline or in the real world,
right? You could drive down themain boulevard in your town, and
if you're hungry, you're goingto see all the restaurants,
right? And but if you're not,you won't see them at all.
(12:56):
You'll see whatever is ofinterest to you. And so teaching
the kids how to look both waysbefore crossing the street on
the internet is important. Sothey have to, they have to be
taught how we have to be taughthow to survive in this world.
They have to be taught how tosurvive in the in the cyber
(13:17):
world. And and they needcontrols, right? We don't just
say, we just don't say to atoddler like, you know, don't,
don't go down the stairs. We putgates up. So we've to, you know,
it has to be, there has to be abetter way of us educating kids
on how to use the internet, onthe access they have to the
internet, because eliminating itis not an option. It's it's here
(13:40):
to stay. It's here tostay. I agree with that. I I
think the issue that I have ishow young kids are starting on
social media. That's somethingthat I see all the time, and
parents when they hearrecommendations that their
children should be on socialmedia starting at an older age.
For example, Jonathan, Jonathanheights, new book The anxious
the anxious generationrecommends starting social media
(14:01):
at 16. And I have parents wherethey have 1011, 12 year olds,
and they say, well, it's toolate. This is where they see
their friends. Snapchat is howthey get together with their
friends, how they communicate.
The video games is where theysee their friends, and they feel
like taking it away would beharmful to their social life,
into their mental health. Butwhat do you think about that? I
(14:23):
maybe the more realistic answeris to set limits. Is that
possibletake it away when they're just
so young?
No, I think, I mean, I think Iunderstand, like I never had to
deal with that, and I'm reallygrateful for that, but I do see
that it is there are somesituations where what they're
saying is true, right? Theirkids are more social. They are
(14:46):
they are connecting with theirfriends and their peers, and
they and those kids are alsoinvolved in clubs at school and
after school activities andplaying sports and doing things
those. Kids aren't the that'snot the problem, right? It's the
kids that are on the internetand won't come out of their
room, yeah? So, so you so ifyour kid is saying, Well, I'm
(15:08):
using it to see my friends andthey're not leaving their room,
right? Then, then, then it is aproblem. I mean, I think it's
funny, because every time we'vehad any kind of technology
that's been created. And thisgoes back to even when, in
Plato's Phaedrus, it wasSocrates was, you know, saying
(15:29):
about the written language. No,you'll people will not learn how
to talk to each other. It'sterrible. Written language is
awful. And and, you know, they,they threw the Telegraph in the
ocean. And every technology has,they've said has been horrible
and so bad, and really, the onlyone that did decrease social
stuff was television, becausethat's a one way, that's a one
(15:52):
way communication system. And sothe internet has made kids more
social, and it has made kidsmore engaged in in activities
and clubs and things, but it'salso done the opposite. So it's
not, it's not the it's not theinternet by itself that should
get the bad rap. It's the useruser error. What
(16:15):
I always tell my children is,there's no substitute for in
person connection. So you mayhave a conversation over text or
on social media, but there is nobetter memory created than when
you are with somebody in reallife. And so I agree with you.
If kids are active, they're inclubs or in sports, and they're
seeing their friends that way,and then they happen to talk on
(16:36):
the side using their phones,okay, but if it's their only
means of connection that can'tbe healthy. No,
no, for sure. And kids, I mean,one of the biggest challenges we
have with the kids, and I thinkone of the leading causes of
depression and anxiety, is alack of social skills, with the
inability for them to readpeople's faces and and be, you
(16:59):
know, be comfortable. There's a,there's a there's a ton of
social anxiety, and a lot ofmoments at school where I, I
call it social suicide, wherethe kid says something
inappropriate or doesn't read aconversation Well, and then they
say something then, then theyget, you know, blacklisted from
that group, that friend group,and, and, and so what I've seen
(17:22):
is just an incredible lack ofsocial skills that's causing a
lot of issues. Sowhen you talk to parents about
these issues, do you empowerthem that it's okay to set
limits and boundaries, and whatwould that conversation look
like with their teen? Like,let's say their teen says, Mom,
I can't stop social media. Thisis my friend group. If you took
away my phone, you'll be causingsocial suicide, and they'll and
(17:45):
they throw out some sort ofthreat. How would you respond to
the teenager?
I mean, you're, you're payingfor them to have access to that,
to that device. So you own, youown the rights to it. You get to
control if their grades aresuffering. I mean, if a kid is,
(18:05):
you know, is playing sports,doing well in school, has good
relationships with their peers,has good relationships with you.
It's not an issue, right? It'sonly an issue when, when the
rest whenever, when all theother pieces start falling. So
when those pieces start falling,then you set expectations. You
can you can go on the internetor social media. When your
(18:29):
grades come back up, if youattend school, if you do your
chore, you know there's like youyou set whatever your priorities
are and and so they have. It'snot that you're taking it away,
it's that they have to earn it.
Yes,and I think you're right about
how helpful it can be to setboundaries from the outset. For
example, my 14 year old, she'shad a phone now for a year. It
(18:50):
can only talk and text. There'sno internet capabilities on her
phone, but we had a longconversation before she got her
phone, because, quite frankly, Iwas really nervous for her to
get a phone, because I see kidsin my office all the time. I
walk in the room, they don'tmake eye contact with me. They
like their phone. Has to be bytheir side. They can't stop
looking at their phone, evenduring visits. And so it
terrifies me that my daughterwill become like that so
(19:13):
dependent on a phone from such ayoung age, and I know it's only
going to get worse, or maybe I'mwrong, but the trajectory is
scary to me too. So I what wedid was we wrote a contract. We
wrote a very detailed contractof what I was expecting from
her, how long she should be onher phone. You know, what she
could what she could do with herphone. So for example, it was
(19:34):
very important to me that whenshe has dinner with us, that
she's not on her phone, or thatif we go on vacation, I don't
lose her to her phone. And so weclearly delineated that in the
contract. I guess I'm sayingthis out loud for any parent
listening, that you can do thattoo. You can write a contract.
You can be very clear with yourexpectations. And to your point,
as you mentioned at the verybeginning of discussing your
(19:56):
book, how important is to setboundaries and. She breaks those
boundaries that I follow throughwith a disciplinary action. So
in her case, if she doesn'tfollow it, I'm going to take her
phone away for a few days. Idon't remember what's on the
contract, but I think I take herphone away for 72 hours.
Yeah, no, that's perfect. AndI've told the I've written many
of those contracts for withfamilies. And you know, the
(20:19):
parents will call me and say,well, this happened. I go, Well,
what's the contract say? Like,right? What does it say that you
okay, that's what you have todo. And that's why I'm always if
you can't enforce something,then don't put it in there. Put
what you can enforce. And theother thing that came to mind is
looking at your yourrelationship with the phone and
(20:40):
technology, and are you? Do youhave your phone out at the
table, and so setting thestandards for for your family
and what the expectations are?
I completely agree with you,because it's true, parents, we
ourselves are terrible. I lookaround at parents all the time,
at restaurants out and about.
This morning, I was in line toget coffee. Every single person
online was staring at theirphone. So you're right. We're
(21:01):
asking a lot of our teens if wecan't be good role models
ourselves. And you bring up agreat you bring up a great point
about acting with respect toothers as well, because our kids
are watching us. So they watchhow we talk about people. They
watch what we say about people,what we what we remark about
people on the internet. So greatreminder to parents that we
should also act as we want ourkids to act. We want to we want
(21:22):
to be good role models for ourchildren.
I have a game I play atStarbucks. I go watch the line,
and it's just, I think itsomeone gets in line, and it not
more than a minute goes bybefore they're pulling their
phone out to stare at it andcheck it for, I'm not sure what,
but there, there is, if you lookat the line, it's every person
(21:43):
with their head down. And Isaid, I said to my son the other
day, I'm like, you know,sometimes I'll talk to the
person in line in front of me,and they just look at me like,
I'm weird, like, I'm strange.
Like, why is she talking to me?
But it used to be normal.
Used to be normal. And also, Ithink there's an element of
contagion. If I'm next tosomeone online and they pull out
their phone, then I think, Oh, Iguess I should pull out my
(22:05):
phone. So it is true that rolemodeling does make a difference.
I believe, yes, 100% now anotherquestion I want to ask you,
because I think this is suchthis would be such a helpful
topic to hear from you about,but you talk in your book about
how parents can respond to theemotional outbursts of teens. Do
(22:25):
you have any advice from theoutset, some practical ways for
parents to respond to the momentwhen their kids do have an
outburst?
Yeah, I think what we generallydo is that we it escalates. Us.
Right? Our kid escalates and weescalate. Nothing productive
comes from that. And then I havea saying, all feelings are
(22:46):
welcome. So can be angry or sador frustrated, whatever it is,
right? All feelings are welcome.
So validate that. What howthey're feeling. And then, and
then you can, you know, talkthem through it later. You know,
when they're completelydysregulated their emotions and
they're overreacting tosomething you're not going to
(23:08):
make any sense to them or getthrough to them or convince them
of anything in that moment. Soyou know, you in the moment, you
allow them to express theirfeelings, and then discuss with
them other ways that they could,they could share, you know,
what's going on with them. But Ithink that all too often what we
(23:29):
do is just shut it down, or wetell them, Oh, don't. You
shouldn't feel that way, ordon't do that, or that's not
appropriate. And in, you know,sometimes there are times where
it's, you know, not appropriateto express certain feelings in
certain places, but when youhave the opportunity to to
empathize with them. And yeah,it sucks. I know, yeah, empathy
(23:50):
goes a long way. Absolutely goesa long it goes a long way. And
in if you engage in a in aargument with a teenager, you're
gonna lose. You are losingbecause it's a new found skill
for them in this and they allwant to argue. They want to
argue about everything. I've hadso many parents say my kid's
gonna would make such a greatlawyer. They love to argue. And
(24:13):
I'm like, No, it's they're justpracticing. They don't love to
argue. It'll they'll grow out ofit eventually. Yeah,
I had a parent tell me thisweek. They said, Oh, is your kid
at the stage yet where they tellyou don't know anything? I said,
we're not, we're not there yet.
They're like, just give it alittle bit of time. You'll,
you'll be there soon. They alllike to tell us that we don't
know anything. Yep,yeah. And then when they're, you
(24:33):
know, when they turn 25 they'relike, Wow, you learned fast.
Yes, yes. I, I will admit formyself, something that I would
I'm always trying to work on asa parent, is I have a hard time
with screaming and yelling. Myhusband is much better at it. I
think maybe I'm more sensitiveto it. I just want to end, you
know, I'm always happy to talkand hear problems and
(24:53):
brainstorm, but I have a hardtime when, when they're, you
know, when there are outbursts.
And I was talking to my husbandabout. Other day, said, how, how
do you not hear it? How am I somuch more sensitive than you
are? And he said, You know, Itry to appreciate the stage of
parenting. I just, I just lookat it as a stage, and I want to
appreciate it. And someday we'renot going to have teens anymore
(25:14):
at our house. So I thought, Wow,what a what a healthy outlook,
and I'm trying to use him as myinfluence, because I think as
parents, it can be easy to getsucked into it when really it's
just a normal part of theirexistence as teenagers,
yeah, no, it is definitely adevelopmental stage, and they
grow out of it. It's so mucheasier for me to do this with
(25:37):
somebody else's children than myown. So same.
Yes, I agree. I agree. I if Isee a parent here at work, I'm
always happy to give advice andbrainstorm, but then I can see
in my own life if, yeah,especially something like an
emotional outburst, very trickyand hard to stay calm in the
moment, but it does make a bigdifference. I agree, leading
with empathy, I think is greatadvice. Yeah,
(25:59):
I have a I have a technique thatI teach our therapist is that,
you know, particularly in familywork, it can be pretty high
conflict, and when you're rightthere, it's easy to get sucked
into it. So if you like, imagineyou're in a theater and you're
you put yourself in the backrow, so you create a little
distance to where you're just anobserver and you're watching,
(26:21):
and when you can observe it, yousee it from a different
perspective, and you don't havethat emotional pull.
That's great. So just view it asI'm an observer. I'm watching
this play out, but I don't haveto play into it, right? That's
great. I love that. Do you haveany other practical ways for
parents to respond in the momentof an emotional outburst? I
mean,there's so many every there's so
(26:41):
many things, you know, to findyour pause button, right? Find a
shiny object, like I always say,you know, when I was in
residential and I had a kid thatwould was about to, about to
blow, I would be like, you wantto come take the trash out with
me. Or, Oh, look at the look atthe squirrel in that tree. Or
just anything to kind of sort ofdistract and and bring it down.
(27:02):
Because, you know, engaging withthem is just never, it's never
going to work. So, so I, I myshiny object is my other go to,
yes, I once heard a techniquejust saying, Do you guys mind if
we take a pause on this fightand come back to it later? Can
we do something else and we'llcome, we'll come back to it.
We'll come back to it. We'llcome back to it an hour. We'll
(27:23):
come back to it tomorrow. Andit's amazing how if you can, if
you can, if you can take a breakand come back to it, the
conversation tends to be a lotmore, a lot more calmer and a
lot easier to have.
Yeah, the secret is catching itbefore it gets to that point
where you're gonna fight nomatter what, like you just,
you've already gotten yourselfthere, and you're gonna fight.
(27:44):
So if you can recognize it inyourself or in your loved one
before, and find a way to like,where this isn't, we're gonna,
we're gonna find pause here.
Okay, so,so just to bring it back. So
your strategy, your reminder toparents, or your overall message
in your book, is to think aboutparenting them from a place of
love and not being afraid ofthem. Yes, not being and not
being afraid of their reactionto your parenting. And
(28:10):
not parenting out of fear, notmaking choices out of fear. And
it's hard to tell the differencesometimes, because parents will
say, Well, I did that because Ilove them, and we know if we dig
into it a little bit. So this isfun one. So I'm, I do tell a
(28:31):
parenting fail failure story ineach chapter of my book. So I
did my son's eighth gradescience fair project because he
told me the night before it wasdue, and I can write a research
paper. I mean, it was good. Itwent to the big fair for the
whole city, and he got to getout of school. I'm like, You
better read that, becausethey're going to ask you about
it. But I I can easily justifythat I did that because I love
(28:57):
him and I didn't want him tofall behind or be ashamed that
he didn't have it done becauseit was a big thing, and all of
that is easy to justify, right?
But I that's not the truth. Thetruth is I did it out of fear,
my own fear of him fallingbehind or getting in trouble, or
having his self esteem hurt orwhatever it was. It was my
fears. It if I the parentingchoice of love is to let him
deal with the naturalconsequences of it, right? And
(29:20):
and so again, sometimes it'seasy. We try to justify what
we're doing, um, as parentingfrom love, but it, but it's
usually coming out of fear, andthat's where nothing good comes.
Sometimesit's tricky. Sometimes there's a
gray zone with this, because,for example, I'm thinking, last
week, my daughter left herInvisalign at home. You know, I
(29:40):
pay for her Invisalign. She leftit at home. And she said, Mommy,
can you go home and get myInvisalign? And I said, No, I'm
going to be late to work. Ican't get your Invisalign. And
she was upset with me that Iwouldn't, that I wouldn't do
that for her. I was going tomess up her teeth, but you have
to hold the boundary. And I justfigured, there's so many
situations where parents. Also,you know, we have to pay for a
(30:00):
little bit too, so to speak. Butthat's how they learn their
lesson. I can't save the day forher with everything,
right? I think, I mean, I thinksometimes, when people, parents
will, we do that often, it'slunch, right? And so they, they
take their kids lunch to them,well, they're not going to
starve, you know, we thinkthey're going to starve, right?
(30:21):
They're not going to starvewithout lunch for one day, and
they'll probably end up eatinghalf of their friend's lunch
anyway, so, and that might evenhappen if they take their lunch.
So it's really making those,those choices, but we know why
we do things, right? We know wasthis for me or for them? They
don't know. They ask you to doit. You your reason for doing it
(30:42):
or not doing it, you know that,but they don't.
Right of parenting is so tricky,so hard.
I mean, someone asked me theother day, when do you know if
your kid needs help with orneeds to go get you know, see
somebody for their mentalhealth? And I said, Well, would
you ask me that question? If itwere physical health? Would you
ask me, like, Well, how do Iknow when to take a kid to the
(31:03):
doctor? Well, we take them everyyear. We take them for wellness,
for well, checkups, right? Whycan't we do that with mental
health? Why can't we approachmental health like that, and you
and I could go to treatment andwe're going to improve and get
better. So, so yeah, anybodythat has teenagers. A lot of the
stuff we talked about, isn't it?
These weren't issues that werethat were because of a mental
(31:27):
health these are just lifeissues, right for getting things
for school and and too much timeon social media and all these
things. So so, yeah, any parentcan learn how to better maneuver
the teenage years.
Well. Thank you so much. Anybefore we close, any final words
of wisdom or anything you'd liketo impart upon parents before we
(31:49):
finish off, youknow, I think just reach out to
somebody if you have anyquestions and or concerns about
any behaviors, and even if it'sjust a girlfriend, what would
you do in this situation? Butyou know, get outside of get get
outside of your own experienceand and get support. Because
there's a whole there's a wholeworld out there that that wants
to help. That'sgreat advice, because I do think
(32:12):
sometimes the behavior of ourchildren can feel embarrassing
to talk about. And I promiseyou, parents listening, you are
not alone. Children have theirmoments. They can be difficult,
but please don't struggle alone.
Reach out and get help. And Ithink that is very true and wise
advice. Thank you. Thank you.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on here, and any parents
(32:34):
that are listening. If rowieSounds like a good fit for
anybody that you know,definitely check out the
website. I will link it below inthe show notes. And thank you so
much, Dr Candice Feinberg, forthe work that you do and for
coming on the podcast.
I really appreciate it. That wasmy pleasure. Thank you. Thank
youfor listening, and I hope you
enjoyed this week's episode ofyour child is normal. Also, if
you could take a moment andleave a five star review,
(32:56):
wherever it is you listen topodcasts, I would greatly
appreciate it. It really makes adifference to help this podcast
grow. You can also follow me onInstagram at ask Dr Jessica, see
you next Monday. You.
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