Today, Dr Jessica Hochman and Dr. Lisa Bienstock, pediatric dentist, discuss the nuances ] focusing on common concerns parents have regarding their children's "sucking" habits. They explore the importance of understanding non-nutritive sucking habits, for example the implications of breastfeeding, and the role of pacifiers and thumb sucking on children's oral development. Dr. Bienstock emphasizes the importance of allowing children to stop these habits on their own terms and provides various strategies and tools for parents to support their children in this process. The discussion aims to reassure parents about common concerns regarding their children's oral habits and offers practical advice for fostering healthy dental practices.
Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.
For more content from Dr Jessica Hochman:
Instagram: @AskDrJessica
YouTube channel: Ask Dr Jessica
Website: www.askdrjessicamd.com
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Do you have a future topic you'd like Dr Jessica Hochman to discuss? Email Dr Jessica Hochman askdrjessicamd@gmail.com.
The information presented in Ask Dr Jessica is for general educational purposes only. She does not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals. If you have a concern about your child's health, be sure to call your child's health care provider.
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:00):
Welcome to your child is normal, the podcast where we
help you learn more so you canworry less about your children.
Now, as a pediatrician, I getquestions all the time about
normal oral habits likebreastfeeding, thumb sucking and
pacifier use. So in today'sepisode, we're joined by the
phenomenal Dr Lisa beanstock, apediatric dentist, who joins us
to explain why these behaviorsare natural when you might want
(00:21):
to think about stopping them andwhen to simply let your child
outgrow them on their own. Ifeel like there's so much
societal pressure to stop thesehabits. So let's go over what
you really need to know, and abig thanks to Dr Lisa beanstalk
for joining us today. If youenjoyed this episode, please
take a moment and leave a fivestar review for your child is
normal. Now let's get started.
Dr Lisa Beanstalk, I'm so happyto have you here. Thank you so
(00:44):
much for coming on the podcast.
Thankyou for having me. I'm honored
and excited to be here today. Ihear
the best things about you. Youhave such a great reputation as
a pediatric dentist. So thankyou so much for taking your
precious time to be here.
You're giving me goosebumps.
Thank you. So telleverybody what you do for work.
I know pediatric dentists maysound self explanatory, but I'd
(01:05):
love for people to know what isyour day to day like? What kind
of patients and visits Do yousee?
So I see lots of children fromages zero, because some kids are
born with teeth. We call themnatal teeth, all the way up to
22 because some kids go away tocollege, and then they come back
and they don't want to go to ageneral dentist, so I I see them
(01:29):
all through college, and thenafter college, that's when I'm
like, Okay, bye, time to find anadult dentist. Because the
relationships that we build withthese kids and we see them grow
is just incredible. And youknow, it's hard to say goodbye,
and if they don't want to saygoodbye, I'm not going to say
goodbye. I also see a ton ofspecial needs kids, autistic. I
mean, you name it. I see it. Ialso have four residents right
(01:53):
now because I'm AssociateDirector for NYU Langone
pediatric dental residencyprogram. So I'm training for PD,
for general dentists to becomepediatric dentists. And Phoenix
Children's Hospital is one of isthe top hospital here in
Phoenix, Arizona, and they neverhad dental on call until my
(02:14):
residence. So I'm super, superhappy and grateful that we were
able to form a collaboration soanybody that goes to the
emergency room and at PhoenixChildren's Hospital, and if they
have a dental emergency, theycall my residents and we see
them. So my day to day is, is,is a lot as a pediatric dentist,
it's a lot of fun. It's reallyrewarding and and I'm a mother
(02:36):
of three myself, so I also notonly treat kids, but I live it
and breathe itevery single day. You are a busy
human being, is what I'mhearing. It's a lot of
fun. I wouldn't have it anyother way, but aren't we all
busy? We're all busy, right?
It's a good point, right? A goodpoint, I have to say, from
hearing you talk about how yousee children from zero to 22
(02:57):
there's a lot of parallels withbeing a pediatric dentist and
being a pediatrician, becausethat's exactly the age range
that I specify when people askme how old my patients are.
Isn't it great? Isn't itrewarding? Don't you love it? I
mean, we're so lucky to do whatwe do.
I do love it. I agree. I thinkit's very rare to have to have a
job where you get to know peopleover such a long period of time,
(03:18):
and when you get to be therewith them through so many
changes in life. You know, theconversations that you have with
a toddler are very differentfrom when they become a
teenager.
It's so true and the and theeven the music changes. They go
from like wanting to listen toElmo to Taylor Swift, and then
also as as practitioners andproviders, you and I, I always
(03:39):
joke like we are aging with theparents that we see, right? So
it's not only it's acollaborative relationship. It's
not only, not only treatingtheir kids, but we're also a
confidant and a friend to ourthe patient's parents, right?
Because we're with them everystep of the way as well.
Absolutely, as you said, it'sdefinitely an honor and a
privilege, I agree. So I'm soexcited to talk with you,
(04:03):
because I hear from a lot ofparents where there are certain
habits that kids pick up thatare natural and normal. But
parents get mixed messages fromtheir dentists, from social
media, from their friends andfamily, about how concerning
these habits are. When theyshould break the habits, should
they be concerned? So I thoughtit would be really helpful to
talk to you an experiencedpediatric dentist, and get your
(04:26):
thoughts.
Great. I'm happy to be here.
There are always textbookanswers, right where things that
we're supposed to be doing,because that's what the textbook
says. And a lot of pediatricdentists and even pediatricians
will just quote that. But as amother, your mother were
mothers, right? There's there'sreality, and there's actually
like, what makes sense versustextbook, and it's not always
(04:50):
the same, right?
I completely agree. Couldn'thave said it better myself. So
the three habits that I willthat I thought we could focus
on. So the three main habits Iwas thinking to talk with you
about were breastfeeding,pacifier use and thumb sucking.
Okay, so just starting with thebig picture with these habits,
(05:12):
how concerned should parents beif they don't stop, quote,
unquote, on time,not concerned at all. Well, for
each one of those things, havedifferent answers, right?
Because there's risks andbenefits, but they shouldn't. If
you look at the big picture,don't be concerned at all.
Right,so the big picture for these
habits, do you find that mostkids tend to outgrow them
(05:34):
naturally?
Yes, 100% Absolutely, they willoutgrow them naturally. And just
knowing that in the back of yourmind relieves a lot of stress to
begin with, right?
Definitely, definitely,definitely. And I think that
comes a lot like I noticed thiswith parents as their
experience, as they have morechildren, they are more and more
relaxed about these habits. Somore evidence as to what you're
(05:57):
saying, that with experience,you can relax a little more
worry less, which is a goodthing,
right? Because as a parent, allwe do is worry. So it's nice to
have one less thing to worryabout.
This is true. So let's startwith breastfeeding. So some
parents worry aboutbreastfeeding, because as they
go on with breastfeeding, thechild's six months, seven
months, eight months, theirtheir first teeth pop through,
(06:20):
and we're always concerned,because when they're
breastfeeding, the milk hassugar in it, and if kids don't
brush their teeth well enough,or what I hear a lot is when,
when babies are breastfeedingthroughout the night, there's
concern that they may getcavities. Is that something that
you see a lot? Is that somethingthat you worry about? And how
can parents address thisconcern?
Okay, so great question, breastmilk alone does not cause
(06:43):
cavities. So if we exclusivelyfed, you know, breast fed our
children and never introducedfood, they would never get
cavities, really, yes, but nowwhat happens? It used to be when
I had my first child, therecommendations were that you
introduced food at, you know,six to eight months now with my
with my new baby, that I, well,not so, no, he's almost two.
(07:07):
Recently had it was it's fourmonths we started introducing
food, right? So when food isintroduced, that's when you have
bacterial growth and that's whenyou have risk of getting
cavities. So as a breast well asa mother who breastfed both of
my children, my naturalchildren, I do have a stepson
who I did not breastfeed,because that would just be
(07:27):
weird, because he was mystepson, but my natural
children, that I did have, thatI do have, I breastfed them both
for 13 months, and food wasintroduced. But what I always
recommend is, after they eattheir food, brush their teeth,
and then if you're breastfeedingthroughout the night, and if you
need to do that, yes, it'sconsidered a high risk behavior,
(07:47):
but we have to do what we haveto do to survive and to sleep
and to do what we need to do.
And if the bacteria, source ofthe actual food, is removed, and
then you breastfeed, it seems tobe that there's less of a risk
of getting cavities.
That's so interesting. So I wasalways taught that the sugar
from breast milk may lead toteeth decay, but what you're
(08:07):
saying makes sense, that youcan't get that decay unless
there's bacteria present,correct
and the bacteria doesn't grow,because breast milk is natural,
so there's it's not going topromote bacterial growth. It's
when you introduce other foods,any food that's when you get
back to a growth because it'snot a natural, actual substance
from your own body.
(08:28):
I was always taught that withthe bottles, the bottles are a
big risk factor for babiesgetting cavities because of the
milk around the teeth. So if Iunderstand what you're saying
correctly, breastfeeding, inyour experience, you don't
notice cavities from purebreastfeeding, so
it's you can't from purebreastfeeding. You do not notice
cavities. That is correct. It'swhen you introduce foods where
(08:49):
you get bacterial growth, andthen you get cavities. And then
when you don't brush that thatfood away, or you don't wipe the
mouth out, and you so you feedyour child dinner, and then you
breastfeed throughout the night,and you don't brush the child's
teeth or wipe anything out,you're going to get bacterial
growth. And then you're gonnayou're going to get cavities.
Cavities are the most commonchildhood disease, and this is
(09:11):
one of the reasons why, right?
So it's prolonged exposure tothat bacteria growth, that
bacterial growth, that causesthe cavities. That
is so fascinating. Okay, so if Iunderstand we're trying to say
you would not recommend stoppingbreastfeeding for fear of
cavities. Rather, you would say,make sure and brush your teeth
before going to sleep.
(09:32):
Exactly, out of trouble,exactly. Just brush your baby's
teeth. Or if they don't haveteeth, wipe out. You know, just
wipe the mouth out if they'reeating food, but typically,
well, now the recommendations,right? Am I wrong? Dr Jessica,
the recommendations for food isfour months now, to introduce
any time between four to sixmonths, right? So some kids
(09:53):
don't have teeth at four months.
So you don't need to worry. Youdon't really need to wipe out
the mouth. Yet, it's when theystart to get teeth. When you.
Really want to start wiping itout.
Okay? And this is a commonquestion I get, and you may not
have a great answer, but commonquestion I hear is, how do you
properly brush the teeth whenthey first appear? Do you
recommend any kind of a wipe?
Does it matter a toothbrush?
What's your what do you say topatients when they ask
(10:15):
whatever? Do the best you canwith whatever you have. That's
what I say. But ideally, youwould use it. You would use a
toothbrush. You would use atoothbrush and just to get the
bristles in there, and to getthe bristles along the gum line
and to wipe off the plaque oranything that's that happens to
be in there. And it'smultifactorial, right? So it's
not just food that causescavities. There's a lot of other
(10:38):
factors, right? It's, it's oralhygiene, which we're talking
about, is the diet, which we'retalking about, and then it's a
genetic factor, and it's notreally genetic per se. You know,
it's not like I have brown eyesand brown hair, so I'm going to
get cavities. And it's not likethat. It's more the bacterial
growth, the bacteria that youhave. So it's called vertical
(10:58):
transmission. So I always say toparents, try to avoid sharing if
you have had a lot of cavities,for example, a lot of moms and
parents go spoonful for me,spoonful for you. But if you've
had a lot of history of cavitiesin your mouth in the past, then
you have that bacteria thatcauses the cavities, and you're
actually giving it to yourchild, and that's what we call
vertical transmissionthat is fascinating. Okay, so
(11:23):
that's really helpful to know.
Because myself, I've hadcavities, so I'm you're giving
me a lot to think about.
Well, your kids are older now,so I'm sure they're fine, right?
Yes, yes.
Okay, those are really helpfulpointers. So from your
perspective, moms can breastfeedand you're not so concerned
about cavity formation. Justmake sure to brush your teeth.
(11:43):
Make sure you brush them, getget those germs out of there,
for sure.
Now, what about pacifiers?
Because a lot of parents havemixed messages when it comes to
pacifiers and how harmful it isto oral development, and a lot
of parents are are unclear. Whenis the best time to stop using a
pacifier.
So there's a textbook age thatI'm going to tell you, which is
(12:05):
three. And then there's theactual real age where they don't
need the pacifier for nonnutritive sucking anymore. They
don't need it, and where they'reold enough that they don't need
it, but they're young enoughthey're not going to remember,
and that magic age is really 18months. 18 months is the magic
age to get rid of the pacifier.
(12:27):
Okay, okay. And then, do youhave any advice on how to do it?
There's lots of ways to do it.
I like cold turkey. It's goingto be difficult for the first
two nights. And I always say, ifyou see them finding their
thumb, give them back thepacifier, because it's a lot
easier to take away the pacifierthan the thumb. But 18 months
(12:48):
seems to be that magic age, andyou could cut it and then it
doesn't work anymore. I mean,there's so many things, but at
18 months, they're young enoughwhere they're not going to know
or remember. So I would just docold turkey. You know, my
daughter slept with a pacifierin each hand and one in her
mouth. It was like, crack toher, right? Like, obsessed with
it. And I was so I was like, wecan't get rid of it. We can't
(13:09):
get rid of it, right? I'm like,wearing my mom hat. I'm like,
What is she gonna do? She needsit. And my husband's like, what
do you tell your patients? I'mlike, I tell my patients 18
months it's gone. He's like,okay, she's 18 months today.
It's gone, and he literally gotrid of them all, and we had,
like, two rough nights, and thenshe was fine. It's
true that as a parent, I thinkwe anticipate the worst,
especially if your child'sreally attached to it, but I
(13:32):
tend to feel like if you giveyour kids the benefit of the
doubt that they're resilient,that they can get through it,
because they can, when you gofor it and you actually make the
decision to take it away. It's alot easier than we anticipate
100% now, do you in terms of,like, dental implications, do
you feel like pacifiers can harmthe palette? That's something
that I hear a lot from dentists,that it might push on the
(13:54):
palette and potentially havelong, lasting impacts. Yeah. So
you know the textbook age isthree, and the reason why is
because the palette is stillmalleable by three, so it tends
to go back, so back to what itshould be. If you get rid of the
pacifier before age three,right? But if you continue the
pacifier after age three, thepalette does form around it, and
(14:14):
you end up with that open bite,and then you get a tongue
thrust, and then the child isprobably going to end up with a
constricted palette and need apaddle expander when they're
older. And which can you knowthe constricted palette can be
fixed later with orthodontics,like a with a paddle expander
orthodontics, but if you want toavoid that, then yes, it's
important to get rid of thepacifier before age three for
(14:37):
that reason. Andwhat about the teeth? Because
sometimes kids, I notice, have apacifier. Look. You can tell
when they Yeah, you can tell,like, the front two teeth come
forward a little bit. Well, I'mcurious, from your perspective,
what happens to the teeth, whenthe, when the permanent teeth
come in, does it resolve on itsown? Well, it
depends when you get rid of it.
So if, if the, if you get rid ofthe pacifier. Or three, it
(14:59):
resolves on its own. Ittypically self corrects, and
it's fine if you wait and thepacifier is always in the mouth,
because it's not the the thestrength of the sucking that
causes the teeth to form aroundthe pacifier. It's the duration
of time that the pacifier is inthe mouth. So if that pacifier
is in the mouth all the time.
(15:21):
And then the adult, you know, Ihope that they're not on the
pacifier. At five, the adultteeth start to come in around
six to eight years old, right?
So if, hopefully that pacifieris gone, and typically it is
gone around before kindergarten,if they're that obsessed with
it, it seems to be that's thenatural age. But by then, their
palate is constricted, and theteeth are going to come in and
look, they'll look a littlenormal in the front, but in the
(15:44):
back, it's going to be a littleconstricted. They're going to
end up with a cross bite, mostlikely, and need a palette
spanner. We also develop atongue thrust, because the teeth
are open from the from thepalate, right from the from the
pacifier. It keeps the the teethopen, and then they and then the
tongue thrust that way, and thatkeeps it open. So some kids, you
(16:04):
take away the pacifier, andtheir bite is still open, and
they have a tongue thrust. Thattongue thrust is going to keep
that bite open no matter whatyou do, and then you're going to
definitely need someorthodontics. That's
interesting, because I havenoticed kids that have tongue
thrust, or parents that voiceconcerns about tongue thrust,
and I never tied the twotogether that I never thought
(16:26):
about asking the parents if itwas related to pacifier use, or
how longwas your child on the pacifier.
And then what you can do is youcan train the tongue to stay
back with certain appliances.
Out of curiosity, does a tonguethrust lead to drooling? Because
I have, I have had patients thatare three years old and they're
drooling, and I wonder if that'sa reason why, um,
I don't know if it's likedirectly correlated to drooling
(16:49):
the drilling is usually themasseter muscles and and, you
know, the big layers, Auris andthe muscles of the face that
tend to not be formed. I don'twant to say formed as well, but
not as strong. I should say,because what happens is, we give
our kids all these foods, likethe purees and the packets,
right? And they don't reallylearn to chew and eat. And I
(17:12):
always say to parents, it'sreally important that you give
your kids crunchy, difficultfoods to eat to help form those
muscles. Because, of course,kids love to eat those packets.
It's so much easier. They don'thave to work as hard, right? You
don't have to work as hard whenyou're chewing up a granola bar
or you're chewing somethinghard, right? A lot of kids don't
want to eat that stuff becauseit's hard. It takes more work to
(17:35):
eat, but then what ends uphappening is their muscles
aren't as strong, and then youend up with drooling and things
like that. Thatmakes so much sense. That's such
great advice, because I'mthinking about it. If you want
to increase your strength andget your muscles stronger, you
have to work at them. So itmakes sense that that would
apply to to chewing, that youwant to make sure you're chewing
something that's not just softand moving your muscles from
side to side, right, like a lotof us just chew on one side,
(17:58):
because we never learn how toproperly chew. Because we're
giving, we're given purees aschildren and as toddlers, right?
So we're just used to sucking itdown.
Okay, this is great.
Okay, so now moving on to Ithink what can be a trickier
topic for parents to figure outhow to stop this habit, but
(18:19):
that's thumb sucking, because,as my mom always says, the
pacifier, it's an easy problem,more or less, to stop if you
really want to, because you canjust take it away where the
thumb you can't take it away. Achild always has it with them.
So I'm just curious, first ofall, big picture, do you feel
strongly about when kids shouldstop thumb sucking? Is it bad
(18:40):
for the teeth. No.
Okay, so as long as you knowyour child is going to need some
sort of orthodontics in thefuture, most likely, then it's
fine. I have to admit, I was athumb sucker. I sucked my thumb
until I was almost six yearsold, right? And I had a lot of
orthodontics. And now I'm okay,but I'm okay. I always say to
(19:03):
parents, it's harder to fixthings psychologically than it
is the teeth. If your childneeds their thumb, let them have
their thumb. It's okay. They'renot going to get married.
Sucking their thumb, right?
By the way, I think I stoppedsucking my thumb around the same
time, about six years old,right? Because
you get to kindergarten andnobody else is doing and you
don't want to do it. And again,like your first question,
(19:24):
initially, it just graduallywill stop on its own, because
the child is going to want to doto stop it, the child is going
to want to stop on on her own,his or her own. Anyway, I
rememberreading, I'm not sure where I
read this from, but I definitelythis statistic stuck out in my
head, because I think it's sointeresting that by the time
kids get to kindergarten, 95%will stop on their own without a
(19:45):
parent intervening. And they saythat's because kids at that age
start to become more sociallyaware. They care what their
peers think about them, and theydon't want to look like a baby,
right? So they'll stop on theirown, or they'll be more
cognizant. Going to pull thethumb from their mouth,
especially during the daytime. Isay that because parents, we can
stress out about when they'regoing to stop and they'll just
(20:06):
do it on their own. The odds arethey're just going to do it all
right.
So lay off your kids, like, letthem do it. It's okay. It's
okay.
That's so nice to hear it from adentist. Yes, of course. Like
I said, there are textbookanswers. The textbook answer is
yes, it'll affect the palate andconstrict the palate, and then
you have a tongue thrust, andthen there's germs, and then
(20:27):
you're going to get morecavities. But the reality of it
is, is you're not going toyou're not going to make your
child stop sucking their thumb.
They're going to want to do iton their own when they're ready
to do it, we have tools to helpthem do it. Right? There's the
Mavala stop, which is the stuffthat doesn't taste good. But as
a parent, I wouldn't push thaton my child. I would wait until
my child comes to me and says,You know what, it's always good
(20:47):
to have conversations with yourchild about it, right? If it's
bothering you. As a parent, youcan say, you know it's really
important you wash your handsbecause of the germs that you're
getting in your mouth and hand,foot and mouth when they're
toddlers and things like that.
You can have this conversation.
Conversations, but I wouldn'tput any unnecessary stress or
pressure on it until they'reactually ready, right? They have
(21:07):
to be ready to do it.
That's a perfect reminder, Ithink, because a lot of parents,
when I ask them, what bothersthem about their child sucking
their thumb, they're concernedabout the germs or potentially
getting sick more often becausethey suck their thumb. So that's
so true. You can have aconversation with your kids,
have them wash their hands more,pay attention to their hygiene,
but then they can still sucktheir thumb, right?
(21:28):
And plant the seed. You know, Idon't suck my thumb. I always
say to some of the kids whenthey come to see me, if the mom
is like, can you try to help meget her to stop sucking her
thumb? I'll say, you know, who'syour favorite princess? And
they'll say Elsa. And I'll say,Well, you know, Elsa doesn't
suck her thumb, so if you wantto be a princess like Elsa,
let's try to stop and, you know,I'll give you a reward. And you
can always do a reward chart, orany of those things, but you're
(21:51):
never going to make them do it.
They have to want to do it, andthat's the key. I
love it, some nice, positiveencouragement. But you're not
forcing them. You're not makingthem it's on their own terms,
right? Because, like you said,95% of the time they'll stop on
their own by kindergarten.
Amazing.
Okay? And just again, from yourperspective as a pediatric
dentist, not too harmful interms of what you see with kids
(22:14):
that suck their thumbs, no,no, because we can fix it. It's
okay. You can always fix it,right? But it's harder to fix
things psychologically. I alwayssay, you know, sometimes it
becomes such a major issue, andat home where, like, everybody's
freaking out about it, and thedad and the mom, they won't lay
off the kid, and then they get,like, deep down psychological
insecurities, and that's thelast thing you want to do to
(22:34):
your child, right? I mean, asparents, already, we're doing
the best we can, trying to tonot cause psychological issues
for our children, right? So, youknow, let them, let them do it
on their own, and don't make abig deal about it.
I have to say my, one of my kidswas very attached to her thumb,
and it was so helpful when shewould tantrum, so helpful. We
(22:57):
knew it as parents. She knew it.
She was when she would get upsetand worked up, she would just
pop that thumb in her mouth. Itimmediately worked. So I was
really slow to have her toencourage her to stop, because
honestly, it was a huge help inmy family. So when did she
finally stop? So okay, beforekindergarten, or right around
kindergarten, she actually, asyou pointed out, she let us know
(23:18):
that she wanted to stop and shecouldn't. She didn't know how,
when she was asking for help. SoI know you had mentioned, what
did you mention the creamthere's
the Mavala stop, which is, likethat bad tasting stuff you paint
on the thumb. I mean, there's somany tools I can keep going, but
go ahead, I want to hear thestory. Yeah.
So we ended up using somethingcalled the T guard, which worked
(23:40):
really well. We watched thecommercial for we went on
YouTube, and we watched a kid doa testimonial showing how they
use the tea guard. She watchedit. She wasn't ready at first,
and then I think a couple weekslater, she came to us and she
said, now I'm ready. I want toget the tea guard. And that was
how it works, is it's a plasticcovering with little holes on
the side so it can breathe, anda band around the wrist that
keeps it there. And there'sdifferent colors. So it makes it
(24:01):
a little fun and exciting forthe kids, because they can
change up the color of theirwrists their wristband every
day. So she watched thecommercial. She wasn't
interested yet, but then, whenwe finally did, use the T guard,
they give you, I think, 42 daysworth of of wristbands. You
know, they give you like, sixweeks or so, because they say it
takes that long to break ahabit, and she used it for less
(24:23):
than two days, and she said, I'mready to stop. I'm done. I've
stopped the habit. So we had agreat experience with thumb
sucking overall, because it wasvery helpful for her in her
childhood. And then when it cametime to stopping, and she was
really ready, using the teaguard, it didn't take very long
see how positive that is. That'samazing. I love that. So yeah,
all your listeners like seethat. What a positive, wonderful
(24:46):
and then she was probably reallyproud of herself, right? And
that built more self confidence,because look at what she did on
her own, and that's amazing. Shewas really proud of herself,
it's true. And I I couldn'tbelieve when she said she was
ready. I said that. It. It'sonly been two days. You've only
used two wristbands. That's it.
Like we have 42 days worth ofwristbands, and we're done. And
(25:06):
she she could tell she was done,that she had broken the habit.
So yes, I do think that was thebest solution for our family.
That worked out great. Ratherthan fighting with her about it
and coming to a crossroads andmaking her feel pressured, she
came to it on her own terms, onher own time. And it worked out,
Ilove it. I love it. So now they
have something like the teaguard that you mentioned. It's
called the thumb Buster, and youcan get on Amazon, and it
(25:28):
doesn't look as archaic as thetea guard looks, but because
it's like spandex type material,and it comes in, like, blue and
green and pink and all differentcolors and and so I show it to
kids, and there's, like, somekids wearing them on both arms,
and they're smiling like this.
And like, I'm like, all the coolkids are wearing these now. So
(25:50):
then some of them want that,right? And then, and then that
helps them stop as well. Soyeah, there's so many tools out
there. Socan we quickly list them, just
so for people listening, thatthey know what their options
are, that they can show them totheir kids. So we talked about
the tea guard. You talked aboutthe thumb Buster,
or the buster. They might havereinvented themselves as a thumb
(26:11):
stir. It was either the thumbstore, the thumb Buster could be
two different companies, butit's the same type of idea.
There's the Mavala stop, whichis like the bad tasting nail
polish that you that you painton. And then there's tools that,
as a pediatric dentist, that wecan put in the mouth, like a
tongue crib, where every timethey put their thumb in the
(26:34):
mouth, it's it's cemented in,and it kind of looks like, looks
like bars. And so every time thethumb goes in, it reminds them
to take it out. And you can'treally see it. When they smile,
they have to, like, open and,like, put their head back so you
can see it. So there's a tonguecrib. There's a tongue rake, you
know, for kids that that reallycan't stop, that really want to
(26:55):
stop, it actually has spikes,like, you cut the crib so it's
there. It's, like, spiky, so itkind of hurts, which I don't
love that one, but some, someparents and some kids actually
really want that one. So there'sanother one that you could use.
So, yeah, there's a lot, there'sa lot of stuff out there. It's
nice to hear that there's somany options. Yeah, I'm thinking
back when I sucked my thumb, myparents gently encouraged me to
(27:19):
stop, and they bought thatbitter tasting paint to put on
my thumb, and I would just go inthe bathroom and just clean it
off and wash it off. I wonder Iwas personally not ready to stop
sucking my thumb when they gaveme that so where there's a will,
there's a way, so I thinkexactly, much better to wait
till your child is ready ontheir own terms.
That's right. Otherwise, you'rejust going to take it off.
(27:39):
Right? If you give your kid athumb Buster, or thumbs or, you
know, or any of that, they'rejust going to take it off or
they're going to wash it offbecause they don't want to do
it. They have to want to do itright.
I feel like a lot of parents getinput from society or their
family that it's best to stopsooner. So it's so nice to hear
from you a pediatric dentist whosees it all, sees all the teeth
problems that are out there thatexist, that it is okay, that
(28:02):
it's not a problem. At the endof the day, your kids will stop
when they're ready, and theywill be just fine, I promise.
Well, thank you so much forthis. Any more words of wisdom
or final advice that you'd liketo share with the audience? No,
this has been so much fun, and Ihope that I've helped in some
way, shape or form, becausethat's what we're here for,
(28:23):
right? And help alleviate anyany, any bad advice you guys are
getting.
Thank you so much. And you know,my my favorite thing to do when
giving information to people, ifI can re if I can help reassure
them, help them worry less bygiving them good quality
information. I feel like that.
That's the best feeling I canhave. So thank you for helping
(28:45):
me do that to whoever'slistening and needed to hear
some reassurance. Oh, well,thank you. Thank you for having
me. Oh, and tell people. Tellpeople, where can they find you
and if they happen to be livingin the Phoenix area.
So I have two practices. I haveone in Scottsdale on 92nd and
Shea called Ironwood PediatricDentistry, and I have another
(29:06):
one on 20th Street andCamelback. That's two zero
Street in Camelback, called thekids dental office of Phoenix
and orthodontics. And then ifyou happen to go to children's,
you'll probably see me or one ofmy residents there if you have
any dental trauma, and you canalso follow me on Instagram.
It's just my name, Lisabeanstock, and then my Tiktok is
(29:26):
Dr B, that's me.
Fantastic. Thank you so so much.
Thank you for listening, and Ihope you enjoyed this week's
episode of your child is normal.
Also, if you could take a momentand leave a five star review,
wherever it is you listen topodcasts, I would greatly
appreciate it. It It reallymakes a difference to help this
podcast grow. You can alsofollow me on Instagram at ask Dr
Jessica, see you next Monday.
Welcome to your child is normal, the podcast where we
help you learn more so you canworry less about your children.
Now, as a pediatrician, I getquestions all the time about
normal oral habits likebreastfeeding, thumb sucking and
pacifier use. So in today'sepisode, we're joined by the
phenomenal Dr Lisa beanstock, apediatric dentist, who joins us
to explain why these behaviorsare natural when you might want
(00:21):
to think about stopping them andwhen to simply let your child
outgrow them on their own. Ifeel like there's so much
societal pressure to stop thesehabits. So let's go over what
you really need to know, and abig thanks to Dr Lisa beanstalk
for joining us today. If youenjoyed this episode, please
take a moment and leave a fivestar review for your child is
normal. Now let's get started.
Dr Lisa Beanstalk, I'm so happyto have you here. Thank you so
(00:44):
much for coming on the podcast.
Thankyou for having me. I'm honored
and excited to be here today. Ihear
the best things about you. Youhave such a great reputation as
a pediatric dentist. So thankyou so much for taking your
precious time to be here.
You're giving me goosebumps.
Thank you. So telleverybody what you do for work.
I know pediatric dentists maysound self explanatory, but I'd
(01:05):
love for people to know what isyour day to day like? What kind
of patients and visits Do yousee?
So I see lots of children fromages zero, because some kids are
born with teeth. We call themnatal teeth, all the way up to
22 because some kids go away tocollege, and then they come back
and they don't want to go to ageneral dentist, so I I see them
(01:29):
all through college, and thenafter college, that's when I'm
like, Okay, bye, time to find anadult dentist. Because the
relationships that we build withthese kids and we see them grow
is just incredible. And youknow, it's hard to say goodbye,
and if they don't want to saygoodbye, I'm not going to say
goodbye. I also see a ton ofspecial needs kids, autistic. I
mean, you name it. I see it. Ialso have four residents right
(01:53):
now because I'm AssociateDirector for NYU Langone
pediatric dental residencyprogram. So I'm training for PD,
for general dentists to becomepediatric dentists. And Phoenix
Children's Hospital is one of isthe top hospital here in
Phoenix, Arizona, and they neverhad dental on call until my
(02:14):
residence. So I'm super, superhappy and grateful that we were
able to form a collaboration soanybody that goes to the
emergency room and at PhoenixChildren's Hospital, and if they
have a dental emergency, theycall my residents and we see
them. So my day to day is, is,is a lot as a pediatric dentist,
it's a lot of fun. It's reallyrewarding and and I'm a mother
(02:36):
of three myself, so I also notonly treat kids, but I live it
and breathe itevery single day. You are a busy
human being, is what I'mhearing. It's a lot of
fun. I wouldn't have it anyother way, but aren't we all
busy? We're all busy, right?
It's a good point, right? A goodpoint, I have to say, from
hearing you talk about how yousee children from zero to 22
(02:57):
there's a lot of parallels withbeing a pediatric dentist and
being a pediatrician, becausethat's exactly the age range
that I specify when people askme how old my patients are.
Isn't it great? Isn't itrewarding? Don't you love it? I
mean, we're so lucky to do whatwe do.
I do love it. I agree. I thinkit's very rare to have to have a
job where you get to know peopleover such a long period of time,
(03:18):
and when you get to be therewith them through so many
changes in life. You know, theconversations that you have with
a toddler are very differentfrom when they become a
teenager.
It's so true and the and theeven the music changes. They go
from like wanting to listen toElmo to Taylor Swift, and then
also as as practitioners andproviders, you and I, I always
(03:39):
joke like we are aging with theparents that we see, right? So
it's not only it's acollaborative relationship. It's
not only, not only treatingtheir kids, but we're also a
confidant and a friend to ourthe patient's parents, right?
Because we're with them everystep of the way as well.
Absolutely, as you said, it'sdefinitely an honor and a
privilege, I agree. So I'm soexcited to talk with you,
(04:03):
because I hear from a lot ofparents where there are certain
habits that kids pick up thatare natural and normal. But
parents get mixed messages fromtheir dentists, from social
media, from their friends andfamily, about how concerning
these habits are. When theyshould break the habits, should
they be concerned? So I thoughtit would be really helpful to
talk to you an experiencedpediatric dentist, and get your
(04:26):
thoughts.
Great. I'm happy to be here.
There are always textbookanswers, right where things that
we're supposed to be doing,because that's what the textbook
says. And a lot of pediatricdentists and even pediatricians
will just quote that. But as amother, your mother were
mothers, right? There's there'sreality, and there's actually
like, what makes sense versustextbook, and it's not always
(04:50):
the same, right?
I completely agree. Couldn'thave said it better myself. So
the three habits that I willthat I thought we could focus
on. So the three main habits Iwas thinking to talk with you
about were breastfeeding,pacifier use and thumb sucking.
Okay, so just starting with thebig picture with these habits,
(05:12):
how concerned should parents beif they don't stop, quote,
unquote, on time,not concerned at all. Well, for
each one of those things, havedifferent answers, right?
Because there's risks andbenefits, but they shouldn't. If
you look at the big picture,don't be concerned at all.
Right,so the big picture for these
habits, do you find that mostkids tend to outgrow them
(05:34):
naturally?
Yes, 100% Absolutely, they willoutgrow them naturally. And just
knowing that in the back of yourmind relieves a lot of stress to
begin with, right?
Definitely, definitely,definitely. And I think that
comes a lot like I noticed thiswith parents as their
experience, as they have morechildren, they are more and more
relaxed about these habits. Somore evidence as to what you're
(05:57):
saying, that with experience,you can relax a little more
worry less, which is a goodthing,
right? Because as a parent, allwe do is worry. So it's nice to
have one less thing to worryabout.
This is true. So let's startwith breastfeeding. So some
parents worry aboutbreastfeeding, because as they
go on with breastfeeding, thechild's six months, seven
months, eight months, theirtheir first teeth pop through,
(06:20):
and we're always concerned,because when they're
breastfeeding, the milk hassugar in it, and if kids don't
brush their teeth well enough,or what I hear a lot is when,
when babies are breastfeedingthroughout the night, there's
concern that they may getcavities. Is that something that
you see a lot? Is that somethingthat you worry about? And how
can parents address thisconcern?
Okay, so great question, breastmilk alone does not cause
(06:43):
cavities. So if we exclusivelyfed, you know, breast fed our
children and never introducedfood, they would never get
cavities, really, yes, but nowwhat happens? It used to be when
I had my first child, therecommendations were that you
introduced food at, you know,six to eight months now with my
with my new baby, that I, well,not so, no, he's almost two.
(07:07):
Recently had it was it's fourmonths we started introducing
food, right? So when food isintroduced, that's when you have
bacterial growth and that's whenyou have risk of getting
cavities. So as a breast well asa mother who breastfed both of
my children, my naturalchildren, I do have a stepson
who I did not breastfeed,because that would just be
(07:27):
weird, because he was mystepson, but my natural
children, that I did have, thatI do have, I breastfed them both
for 13 months, and food wasintroduced. But what I always
recommend is, after they eattheir food, brush their teeth,
and then if you're breastfeedingthroughout the night, and if you
need to do that, yes, it'sconsidered a high risk behavior,
(07:47):
but we have to do what we haveto do to survive and to sleep
and to do what we need to do.
And if the bacteria, source ofthe actual food, is removed, and
then you breastfeed, it seems tobe that there's less of a risk
of getting cavities.
That's so interesting. So I wasalways taught that the sugar
from breast milk may lead toteeth decay, but what you're
(08:07):
saying makes sense, that youcan't get that decay unless
there's bacteria present,correct
and the bacteria doesn't grow,because breast milk is natural,
so there's it's not going topromote bacterial growth. It's
when you introduce other foods,any food that's when you get
back to a growth because it'snot a natural, actual substance
from your own body.
(08:28):
I was always taught that withthe bottles, the bottles are a
big risk factor for babiesgetting cavities because of the
milk around the teeth. So if Iunderstand what you're saying
correctly, breastfeeding, inyour experience, you don't
notice cavities from purebreastfeeding, so
it's you can't from purebreastfeeding. You do not notice
cavities. That is correct. It'swhen you introduce foods where
(08:49):
you get bacterial growth, andthen you get cavities. And then
when you don't brush that thatfood away, or you don't wipe the
mouth out, and you so you feedyour child dinner, and then you
breastfeed throughout the night,and you don't brush the child's
teeth or wipe anything out,you're going to get bacterial
growth. And then you're gonnayou're going to get cavities.
Cavities are the most commonchildhood disease, and this is
(09:11):
one of the reasons why, right?
So it's prolonged exposure tothat bacteria growth, that
bacterial growth, that causesthe cavities. That
is so fascinating. Okay, so if Iunderstand we're trying to say
you would not recommend stoppingbreastfeeding for fear of
cavities. Rather, you would say,make sure and brush your teeth
before going to sleep.
(09:32):
Exactly, out of trouble,exactly. Just brush your baby's
teeth. Or if they don't haveteeth, wipe out. You know, just
wipe the mouth out if they'reeating food, but typically,
well, now the recommendations,right? Am I wrong? Dr Jessica,
the recommendations for food isfour months now, to introduce
any time between four to sixmonths, right? So some kids
(09:53):
don't have teeth at four months.
So you don't need to worry. Youdon't really need to wipe out
the mouth. Yet, it's when theystart to get teeth. When you.
Really want to start wiping itout.
Okay? And this is a commonquestion I get, and you may not
have a great answer, but commonquestion I hear is, how do you
properly brush the teeth whenthey first appear? Do you
recommend any kind of a wipe?
Does it matter a toothbrush?
What's your what do you say topatients when they ask
(10:15):
whatever? Do the best you canwith whatever you have. That's
what I say. But ideally, youwould use it. You would use a
toothbrush. You would use atoothbrush and just to get the
bristles in there, and to getthe bristles along the gum line
and to wipe off the plaque oranything that's that happens to
be in there. And it'smultifactorial, right? So it's
not just food that causescavities. There's a lot of other
(10:38):
factors, right? It's, it's oralhygiene, which we're talking
about, is the diet, which we'retalking about, and then it's a
genetic factor, and it's notreally genetic per se. You know,
it's not like I have brown eyesand brown hair, so I'm going to
get cavities. And it's not likethat. It's more the bacterial
growth, the bacteria that youhave. So it's called vertical
(10:58):
transmission. So I always say toparents, try to avoid sharing if
you have had a lot of cavities,for example, a lot of moms and
parents go spoonful for me,spoonful for you. But if you've
had a lot of history of cavitiesin your mouth in the past, then
you have that bacteria thatcauses the cavities, and you're
actually giving it to yourchild, and that's what we call
vertical transmissionthat is fascinating. Okay, so
(11:23):
that's really helpful to know.
Because myself, I've hadcavities, so I'm you're giving
me a lot to think about.
Well, your kids are older now,so I'm sure they're fine, right?
Yes, yes.
Okay, those are really helpfulpointers. So from your
perspective, moms can breastfeedand you're not so concerned
about cavity formation. Justmake sure to brush your teeth.
(11:43):
Make sure you brush them, getget those germs out of there,
for sure.
Now, what about pacifiers?
Because a lot of parents havemixed messages when it comes to
pacifiers and how harmful it isto oral development, and a lot
of parents are are unclear. Whenis the best time to stop using a
pacifier.
So there's a textbook age thatI'm going to tell you, which is
(12:05):
three. And then there's theactual real age where they don't
need the pacifier for nonnutritive sucking anymore. They
don't need it, and where they'reold enough that they don't need
it, but they're young enoughthey're not going to remember,
and that magic age is really 18months. 18 months is the magic
age to get rid of the pacifier.
(12:27):
Okay, okay. And then, do youhave any advice on how to do it?
There's lots of ways to do it.
I like cold turkey. It's goingto be difficult for the first
two nights. And I always say, ifyou see them finding their
thumb, give them back thepacifier, because it's a lot
easier to take away the pacifierthan the thumb. But 18 months
(12:48):
seems to be that magic age, andyou could cut it and then it
doesn't work anymore. I mean,there's so many things, but at
18 months, they're young enoughwhere they're not going to know
or remember. So I would just docold turkey. You know, my
daughter slept with a pacifierin each hand and one in her
mouth. It was like, crack toher, right? Like, obsessed with
it. And I was so I was like, wecan't get rid of it. We can't
(13:09):
get rid of it, right? I'm like,wearing my mom hat. I'm like,
What is she gonna do? She needsit. And my husband's like, what
do you tell your patients? I'mlike, I tell my patients 18
months it's gone. He's like,okay, she's 18 months today.
It's gone, and he literally gotrid of them all, and we had,
like, two rough nights, and thenshe was fine. It's
true that as a parent, I thinkwe anticipate the worst,
especially if your child'sreally attached to it, but I
(13:32):
tend to feel like if you giveyour kids the benefit of the
doubt that they're resilient,that they can get through it,
because they can, when you gofor it and you actually make the
decision to take it away. It's alot easier than we anticipate
100% now, do you in terms of,like, dental implications, do
you feel like pacifiers can harmthe palette? That's something
that I hear a lot from dentists,that it might push on the
(13:54):
palette and potentially havelong, lasting impacts. Yeah. So
you know the textbook age isthree, and the reason why is
because the palette is stillmalleable by three, so it tends
to go back, so back to what itshould be. If you get rid of the
pacifier before age three,right? But if you continue the
pacifier after age three, thepalette does form around it, and
(14:14):
you end up with that open bite,and then you get a tongue
thrust, and then the child isprobably going to end up with a
constricted palette and need apaddle expander when they're
older. And which can you knowthe constricted palette can be
fixed later with orthodontics,like a with a paddle expander
orthodontics, but if you want toavoid that, then yes, it's
important to get rid of thepacifier before age three for
(14:37):
that reason. Andwhat about the teeth? Because
sometimes kids, I notice, have apacifier. Look. You can tell
when they Yeah, you can tell,like, the front two teeth come
forward a little bit. Well, I'mcurious, from your perspective,
what happens to the teeth, whenthe, when the permanent teeth
come in, does it resolve on itsown? Well, it
depends when you get rid of it.
So if, if the, if you get rid ofthe pacifier. Or three, it
(14:59):
resolves on its own. Ittypically self corrects, and
it's fine if you wait and thepacifier is always in the mouth,
because it's not the the thestrength of the sucking that
causes the teeth to form aroundthe pacifier. It's the duration
of time that the pacifier is inthe mouth. So if that pacifier
is in the mouth all the time.
(15:21):
And then the adult, you know, Ihope that they're not on the
pacifier. At five, the adultteeth start to come in around
six to eight years old, right?
So if, hopefully that pacifieris gone, and typically it is
gone around before kindergarten,if they're that obsessed with
it, it seems to be that's thenatural age. But by then, their
palate is constricted, and theteeth are going to come in and
look, they'll look a littlenormal in the front, but in the
(15:44):
back, it's going to be a littleconstricted. They're going to
end up with a cross bite, mostlikely, and need a palette
spanner. We also develop atongue thrust, because the teeth
are open from the from thepalate, right from the from the
pacifier. It keeps the the teethopen, and then they and then the
tongue thrust that way, and thatkeeps it open. So some kids, you
(16:04):
take away the pacifier, andtheir bite is still open, and
they have a tongue thrust. Thattongue thrust is going to keep
that bite open no matter whatyou do, and then you're going to
definitely need someorthodontics. That's
interesting, because I havenoticed kids that have tongue
thrust, or parents that voiceconcerns about tongue thrust,
and I never tied the twotogether that I never thought
(16:26):
about asking the parents if itwas related to pacifier use, or
how longwas your child on the pacifier.
And then what you can do is youcan train the tongue to stay
back with certain appliances.
Out of curiosity, does a tonguethrust lead to drooling? Because
I have, I have had patients thatare three years old and they're
drooling, and I wonder if that'sa reason why, um,
I don't know if it's likedirectly correlated to drooling
(16:49):
the drilling is usually themasseter muscles and and, you
know, the big layers, Auris andthe muscles of the face that
tend to not be formed. I don'twant to say formed as well, but
not as strong. I should say,because what happens is, we give
our kids all these foods, likethe purees and the packets,
right? And they don't reallylearn to chew and eat. And I
(17:12):
always say to parents, it'sreally important that you give
your kids crunchy, difficultfoods to eat to help form those
muscles. Because, of course,kids love to eat those packets.
It's so much easier. They don'thave to work as hard, right? You
don't have to work as hard whenyou're chewing up a granola bar
or you're chewing somethinghard, right? A lot of kids don't
want to eat that stuff becauseit's hard. It takes more work to
(17:35):
eat, but then what ends uphappening is their muscles
aren't as strong, and then youend up with drooling and things
like that. Thatmakes so much sense. That's such
great advice, because I'mthinking about it. If you want
to increase your strength andget your muscles stronger, you
have to work at them. So itmakes sense that that would
apply to to chewing, that youwant to make sure you're chewing
something that's not just softand moving your muscles from
side to side, right, like a lotof us just chew on one side,
(17:58):
because we never learn how toproperly chew. Because we're
giving, we're given purees aschildren and as toddlers, right?
So we're just used to sucking itdown.
Okay, this is great.
Okay, so now moving on to Ithink what can be a trickier
topic for parents to figure outhow to stop this habit, but
(18:19):
that's thumb sucking, because,as my mom always says, the
pacifier, it's an easy problem,more or less, to stop if you
really want to, because you canjust take it away where the
thumb you can't take it away. Achild always has it with them.
So I'm just curious, first ofall, big picture, do you feel
strongly about when kids shouldstop thumb sucking? Is it bad
(18:40):
for the teeth. No.
Okay, so as long as you knowyour child is going to need some
sort of orthodontics in thefuture, most likely, then it's
fine. I have to admit, I was athumb sucker. I sucked my thumb
until I was almost six yearsold, right? And I had a lot of
orthodontics. And now I'm okay,but I'm okay. I always say to
(19:03):
parents, it's harder to fixthings psychologically than it
is the teeth. If your childneeds their thumb, let them have
their thumb. It's okay. They'renot going to get married.
Sucking their thumb, right?
By the way, I think I stoppedsucking my thumb around the same
time, about six years old,right? Because
you get to kindergarten andnobody else is doing and you
don't want to do it. And again,like your first question,
(19:24):
initially, it just graduallywill stop on its own, because
the child is going to want to doto stop it, the child is going
to want to stop on on her own,his or her own. Anyway, I
rememberreading, I'm not sure where I
read this from, but I definitelythis statistic stuck out in my
head, because I think it's sointeresting that by the time
kids get to kindergarten, 95%will stop on their own without a
(19:45):
parent intervening. And they saythat's because kids at that age
start to become more sociallyaware. They care what their
peers think about them, and theydon't want to look like a baby,
right? So they'll stop on theirown, or they'll be more
cognizant. Going to pull thethumb from their mouth,
especially during the daytime. Isay that because parents, we can
stress out about when they'regoing to stop and they'll just
(20:06):
do it on their own. The odds arethey're just going to do it all
right.
So lay off your kids, like, letthem do it. It's okay. It's
okay.
That's so nice to hear it from adentist. Yes, of course. Like
I said, there are textbookanswers. The textbook answer is
yes, it'll affect the palate andconstrict the palate, and then
you have a tongue thrust, andthen there's germs, and then
(20:27):
you're going to get morecavities. But the reality of it
is, is you're not going toyou're not going to make your
child stop sucking their thumb.
They're going to want to do iton their own when they're ready
to do it, we have tools to helpthem do it. Right? There's the
Mavala stop, which is the stuffthat doesn't taste good. But as
a parent, I wouldn't push thaton my child. I would wait until
my child comes to me and says,You know what, it's always good
(20:47):
to have conversations with yourchild about it, right? If it's
bothering you. As a parent, youcan say, you know it's really
important you wash your handsbecause of the germs that you're
getting in your mouth and hand,foot and mouth when they're
toddlers and things like that.
You can have this conversation.
Conversations, but I wouldn'tput any unnecessary stress or
pressure on it until they'reactually ready, right? They have
(21:07):
to be ready to do it.
That's a perfect reminder, Ithink, because a lot of parents,
when I ask them, what bothersthem about their child sucking
their thumb, they're concernedabout the germs or potentially
getting sick more often becausethey suck their thumb. So that's
so true. You can have aconversation with your kids,
have them wash their hands more,pay attention to their hygiene,
but then they can still sucktheir thumb, right?
(21:28):
And plant the seed. You know, Idon't suck my thumb. I always
say to some of the kids whenthey come to see me, if the mom
is like, can you try to help meget her to stop sucking her
thumb? I'll say, you know, who'syour favorite princess? And
they'll say Elsa. And I'll say,Well, you know, Elsa doesn't
suck her thumb, so if you wantto be a princess like Elsa,
let's try to stop and, you know,I'll give you a reward. And you
can always do a reward chart, orany of those things, but you're
(21:51):
never going to make them do it.
They have to want to do it, andthat's the key. I
love it, some nice, positiveencouragement. But you're not
forcing them. You're not makingthem it's on their own terms,
right? Because, like you said,95% of the time they'll stop on
their own by kindergarten.
Amazing.
Okay? And just again, from yourperspective as a pediatric
dentist, not too harmful interms of what you see with kids
(22:14):
that suck their thumbs, no,no, because we can fix it. It's
okay. You can always fix it,right? But it's harder to fix
things psychologically. I alwayssay, you know, sometimes it
becomes such a major issue, andat home where, like, everybody's
freaking out about it, and thedad and the mom, they won't lay
off the kid, and then they get,like, deep down psychological
insecurities, and that's thelast thing you want to do to
(22:34):
your child, right? I mean, asparents, already, we're doing
the best we can, trying to tonot cause psychological issues
for our children, right? So, youknow, let them, let them do it
on their own, and don't make abig deal about it.
I have to say my, one of my kidswas very attached to her thumb,
and it was so helpful when shewould tantrum, so helpful. We
(22:57):
knew it as parents. She knew it.
She was when she would get upsetand worked up, she would just
pop that thumb in her mouth. Itimmediately worked. So I was
really slow to have her toencourage her to stop, because
honestly, it was a huge help inmy family. So when did she
finally stop? So okay, beforekindergarten, or right around
kindergarten, she actually, asyou pointed out, she let us know
(23:18):
that she wanted to stop and shecouldn't. She didn't know how,
when she was asking for help. SoI know you had mentioned, what
did you mention the creamthere's
the Mavala stop, which is, likethat bad tasting stuff you paint
on the thumb. I mean, there's somany tools I can keep going, but
go ahead, I want to hear thestory. Yeah.
So we ended up using somethingcalled the T guard, which worked
(23:40):
really well. We watched thecommercial for we went on
YouTube, and we watched a kid doa testimonial showing how they
use the tea guard. She watchedit. She wasn't ready at first,
and then I think a couple weekslater, she came to us and she
said, now I'm ready. I want toget the tea guard. And that was
how it works, is it's a plasticcovering with little holes on
the side so it can breathe, anda band around the wrist that
keeps it there. And there'sdifferent colors. So it makes it
(24:01):
a little fun and exciting forthe kids, because they can
change up the color of theirwrists their wristband every
day. So she watched thecommercial. She wasn't
interested yet, but then, whenwe finally did, use the T guard,
they give you, I think, 42 daysworth of of wristbands. You
know, they give you like, sixweeks or so, because they say it
takes that long to break ahabit, and she used it for less
(24:23):
than two days, and she said, I'mready to stop. I'm done. I've
stopped the habit. So we had agreat experience with thumb
sucking overall, because it wasvery helpful for her in her
childhood. And then when it cametime to stopping, and she was
really ready, using the teaguard, it didn't take very long
see how positive that is. That'samazing. I love that. So yeah,
all your listeners like seethat. What a positive, wonderful
(24:46):
and then she was probably reallyproud of herself, right? And
that built more self confidence,because look at what she did on
her own, and that's amazing. Shewas really proud of herself,
it's true. And I I couldn'tbelieve when she said she was
ready. I said that. It. It'sonly been two days. You've only
used two wristbands. That's it.
Like we have 42 days worth ofwristbands, and we're done. And
(25:06):
she she could tell she was done,that she had broken the habit.
So yes, I do think that was thebest solution for our family.
That worked out great. Ratherthan fighting with her about it
and coming to a crossroads andmaking her feel pressured, she
came to it on her own terms, onher own time. And it worked out,
Ilove it. I love it. So now they
have something like the teaguard that you mentioned. It's
called the thumb Buster, and youcan get on Amazon, and it
(25:28):
doesn't look as archaic as thetea guard looks, but because
it's like spandex type material,and it comes in, like, blue and
green and pink and all differentcolors and and so I show it to
kids, and there's, like, somekids wearing them on both arms,
and they're smiling like this.
And like, I'm like, all the coolkids are wearing these now. So
(25:50):
then some of them want that,right? And then, and then that
helps them stop as well. Soyeah, there's so many tools out
there. Socan we quickly list them, just
so for people listening, thatthey know what their options
are, that they can show them totheir kids. So we talked about
the tea guard. You talked aboutthe thumb Buster,
or the buster. They might havereinvented themselves as a thumb
(26:11):
stir. It was either the thumbstore, the thumb Buster could be
two different companies, butit's the same type of idea.
There's the Mavala stop, whichis like the bad tasting nail
polish that you that you painton. And then there's tools that,
as a pediatric dentist, that wecan put in the mouth, like a
tongue crib, where every timethey put their thumb in the
(26:34):
mouth, it's it's cemented in,and it kind of looks like, looks
like bars. And so every time thethumb goes in, it reminds them
to take it out. And you can'treally see it. When they smile,
they have to, like, open and,like, put their head back so you
can see it. So there's a tonguecrib. There's a tongue rake, you
know, for kids that that reallycan't stop, that really want to
(26:55):
stop, it actually has spikes,like, you cut the crib so it's
there. It's, like, spiky, so itkind of hurts, which I don't
love that one, but some, someparents and some kids actually
really want that one. So there'sanother one that you could use.
So, yeah, there's a lot, there'sa lot of stuff out there. It's
nice to hear that there's somany options. Yeah, I'm thinking
back when I sucked my thumb, myparents gently encouraged me to
(27:19):
stop, and they bought thatbitter tasting paint to put on
my thumb, and I would just go inthe bathroom and just clean it
off and wash it off. I wonder Iwas personally not ready to stop
sucking my thumb when they gaveme that so where there's a will,
there's a way, so I thinkexactly, much better to wait
till your child is ready ontheir own terms.
That's right. Otherwise, you'rejust going to take it off.
(27:39):
Right? If you give your kid athumb Buster, or thumbs or, you
know, or any of that, they'rejust going to take it off or
they're going to wash it offbecause they don't want to do
it. They have to want to do itright.
I feel like a lot of parents getinput from society or their
family that it's best to stopsooner. So it's so nice to hear
from you a pediatric dentist whosees it all, sees all the teeth
problems that are out there thatexist, that it is okay, that
(28:02):
it's not a problem. At the endof the day, your kids will stop
when they're ready, and theywill be just fine, I promise.
Well, thank you so much forthis. Any more words of wisdom
or final advice that you'd liketo share with the audience? No,
this has been so much fun, and Ihope that I've helped in some
way, shape or form, becausethat's what we're here for,
(28:23):
right? And help alleviate anyany, any bad advice you guys are
getting.
Thank you so much. And you know,my my favorite thing to do when
giving information to people, ifI can re if I can help reassure
them, help them worry less bygiving them good quality
information. I feel like that.
That's the best feeling I canhave. So thank you for helping
(28:45):
me do that to whoever'slistening and needed to hear
some reassurance. Oh, well,thank you. Thank you for having
me. Oh, and tell people. Tellpeople, where can they find you
and if they happen to be livingin the Phoenix area.
So I have two practices. I haveone in Scottsdale on 92nd and
Shea called Ironwood PediatricDentistry, and I have another
(29:06):
one on 20th Street andCamelback. That's two zero
Street in Camelback, called thekids dental office of Phoenix
and orthodontics. And then ifyou happen to go to children's,
you'll probably see me or one ofmy residents there if you have
any dental trauma, and you canalso follow me on Instagram.
It's just my name, Lisabeanstock, and then my Tiktok is
(29:26):
Dr B, that's me.
Fantastic. Thank you so so much.
Thank you for listening, and Ihope you enjoyed this week's
episode of your child is normal.
Also, if you could take a momentand leave a five star review,
wherever it is you listen topodcasts, I would greatly
appreciate it. It It reallymakes a difference to help this
podcast grow. You can alsofollow me on Instagram at ask Dr
Jessica, see you next Monday.
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