May 5, 2025 • 37 mins
This week on Your Child Is Normal, I’m joined by pediatric dietitian Cinthia Scott, co-author of Baby Leads the Way, to talk about starting solids, baby-led weaning, early allergen introduction, picky eating, and how to reduce the pressure we put on ourselves as parents. We cover practical tips like the “smush test,” how to reframe gagging, the myth of “food before one is just for fun,” and how to raise adventurous eaters without mealtime battles.
Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:00):
Hi everyone, and welcome back to your child is
normal. I'm your host andpediatrician, Dr Jessica
Hochman, so today's episode isall about feeding our kids,
especially during those earlymonths when we're introducing
solid foods and figuring out howto raise healthy eaters. My
guest today is pediatricdietitian Cynthia Scott. She's
the co author of the fantasticnew book baby leads the way. You
(00:21):
might already know Cynthia asthe baby dietitian on Instagram
where she shares practicalevidence based tips with over a
half a million followers. Inthis episode, you'll hear us
talk about everything from thebest first foods to try to
navigating picky eating, earlyallergen exposure and how to
handle stressful meal times. Ifyou've ever felt overwhelmed
trying to make sure that yourchild is getting the right
(00:43):
foods. This episode is for you.
And before we dive in, if youcould take a moment and please
leave a five star reviewwherever it is you listen to
podcasts, I'd really appreciateit. Reviews help others find the
show. Now, let's get startedwith Cynthia Scott. Cynthia
Scott, I can't wait to get intoyour new book. It's very
exciting. So thanks for beinghere. Thank you
for having you for having me.
I'm really excited to talk aboutit and share it with your
(01:04):
followers.
So tell me what made you thinkto write a book about
introducing solids. There's somany existing books out there.
What need did you think yourbook would fill? That's a great
question. So I do feel like it'skind of been a long time in the
making. When I started solidswith my six year old, I was
given a lot of like informationthat I felt like I couldn't, I
(01:27):
didn't. Was like, I wasquestioning a lot of things, and
I was like, hmm, like, let's goget some books and read up on
this topic, which is what I loveto do. And what was like,
glaringly obvious was each bookwas so different, like, they
were actually, like, telling youthe opposite things to do. And
so then I just got reallyconfused. And I was like, Okay,
well, as a dietitian, I shouldbe able to, you know, go through
(01:50):
the research and, like, maybecreate a more practical tips.
That's evidence based. I reallywanted it to be evidence based.
So me and a team of other healthcare professionals, a pediatric
allergist, a pediatrician and aspeech language pathologist, and
then a mom who's also like achef. We got together, and we
created a book called 101 beforeone, and it was more so focused
(02:12):
on evidence based tips, but alsolike recipes and how to feed
your kids easily, making justone meal. And so then, after we
did that, we really wanted tohave pediatricians get their
hands on a quick to read, likeeasy guide for them, because I
know that pediatricians have somuch on their plate, so giving
them like a pocket guide wouldbe helpful for them to keep
(02:35):
updated on current guidelines.
And so the AAP reached out tous. The American Academy of
Pediatrics reach out to us, Ithink about two and a half,
almost three years ago, andwe're like, hey, we want to
create this resource, and wewould be happy to help you do
it. And so our team was like,Absolutely, like, this is
exactly what we wanted to do. Sothat's kind of a short story of
how it started.
(02:57):
I'm so happy to have this bookto talk to you about your book,
because I find feeding is reallyinteresting, because it should
be fun, right? We all loveeating. Eating is a joyous
occasion. I look forward to mymeals. I know everybody can
relate to me when I say that,but for many, many reasons, when
it comes to introducing solidsto our kids, feeding kids in
general, I find with a lot offamilies, it's a very stressful
(03:19):
process. So I love that yourbook is going to help teach
parents how to make feeding morefun, more enjoyable and less
stressful.
Yes, um, I'm sure you've heardthe term like food before. One
is just for fun, and we kind ofdebunk that a little bit,
because food should always befun. Like, there's never a point
where, like, food should not befun, but there is a purpose for
(03:40):
it, right? There's always, andthere is a need for it at six
months of age. So it's notalways just for fun, but it
always should be fun. So wereally want to equip parents to
come to the table like and it bea fun environment and a pleasant
environment. And we kind of helpanswer a lot of questions that
parents have that can sometimesmake feeding kids really
(04:00):
stressful and overwhelming.
You'll have, you'll have to helpme think of a new saying to say
to parents. I say it all thetime.
We'll come up with one. Yeah,we'll come up with one Food For
Life. Should not cause strife. Idon't know what we'll come up
with one that's, that's good.
Well, I really always like tosay that when we're introducing
solids, they're calledcomplementary feedings for a
(04:22):
reason, because they're justcomplimenting their milk based
diet. So we're not expectingthem to eat huge volumes or to
take away from milk feeds. Milkfeeds are still meeting the
maturity of their nutritionalneeds for the first 12 months of
life, and we're just giving themlots of opportunities for
exposure to learn to like newflavors, to learn to like new
textures, and in the process,help meet some of those
(04:45):
nutrition goals that may beharder to meet with just our
milk diet, like iron. Yes,absolutely. So okay, I thought
what my audience might enjoy isI would like to address some of
the more stressful concerns thatI hear from parents as they
start feeding. Their children.
So I wanted to start the mostcommon concern I hear from
parents is they're not sure whatfood to start with. There's such
(05:07):
mixed advice that's given. Sowhat do you say to families?
What are some good first foodsto think about? Well,
like we talked about ironbeforehand, iron is one of the
core nutrients that our kidsreally need enough of, and they
have a really high estimatedneed of iron in the first 12
months of life, and that ironhelps fuel neuro development. So
I like to say, instead of itjust being like one specific
(05:31):
food, like, I just try to focuson iron rich foods, if you can.
That could be a sweet potato,like a plant based source of
iron, like a sweet potato, youcould match that up. Or you
could serve finger food style,like baked sweet potato wedges.
Avocados are great for theirhealthy fats, which we know
babies really need a lot ofthat. Other iron rich foods
(05:52):
could be, like we did, a lot ofground beef mixed into like
mashed potatoes or butternutsquash or pumpkin so that, if
you're one, if you're notcomfortable yet giving like a
whole meatball or ground meatson their own. You can mix them
and make them into a texturedpuree. So I really like to focus
on iron rich foods. Other goodones are like roasted broccoli,
(06:14):
quinoa or lentils, things likethat. And of course, you know,
we rely heavily in the US oniron fortified cereals. Those
can be a fine addition too, totheir diet. If you want to use
those, it could be a reallyhelpful way to get a lot of iron
into your kids who are onlyconsuming a few bites here and
there. I know some people reallydon't like to use them, and if
you don't like to use them,that's fine. Just focus on whole
(06:37):
food sources of iron, rich foodstoo. And then, of course, like
just lots of variety withwhatever you're offering,
some of my favorite iron richfoods also are just, just to
chime in there to give parentsmore ideas. I love anything from
the bean family. So black beans,pinto beans, great source of
iron, and also eggs. Egg yolksare really rich in iron, and
sometimes that's an easy way tointroduce iron, because a lot of
(07:00):
families enjoy scrambling eggsor having eggs in the diet, so
it's an easy way to not, notchange what you're already
eating and make sure that you'regiving your your children the
nutrition that they need. Yeah,we really focus on like just
baking one feel one meal for thewhole family, so taking whatever
the family is used to eating inthe morning and seeing if we can
modify that. You know, withinreason, if we're eating
(07:21):
something that's totallyinappropriate for the kids, or a
choking risk, we wouldn't givethat. But trying to go off what,
like you said, what parents arealready making in the morning,
and try to make it appropriatefor the kiddo to enjoy as well,
amazing and just for parentsthat are listening that might be
concerned, how do I know if mykid is getting enough iron?
Something that we routinely doat the pediatrician visits is
(07:42):
somewhere around a year we checkan iron so that can help gage
families on whether or not theirchildren are getting enough
iron. Okay, so another commonquestion that I get kids when
they start eating foods, it'svery common, and actually
expected that they gag, and thatcan frighten a lot of parents,
and I noticed that you talkabout this a lot on your
Instagram page, which I reallyappreciate. How should we view
(08:04):
that gag reflex?
Yeah, that's a great question.
So when we're first startingsolids, well, babies naturally
have their gag reflex furtherforward in their mouth. So it's
not like us, where ours isfarther in our back, um, it's up
at the front of their mouth. Sowhen introducing anything,
including purees. We may expectsome gagging right from the get
go. This could be their firstbite of food, or maybe it's a
(08:27):
few meals in. But this is, thisis a protective effect. So the
body is doing this to protectthe child from choking, so it's
not choking. Gagging and chokingare totally different. Gagging
is when we see the tongue thrustout of the mouth. We're hearing
noises, and usually some of thefood will come out of their
mouth as they thrust theirtongue forward. So this is a
(08:47):
protective effect. We we like tosee it. It's not a bad thing
unless it's happening all thetime, but so we should expect to
see some of this one forstarting solids in the first
month or two. It's typicallyconsidered normal, so that is
why we typically recommend, ifyou're doing baby led weaning,
that you're doing the biggerpieces of food, because babies
don't have a lot of oralawareness quite yet, so the
(09:09):
bigger pieces are easier forthem to find out where they are
in their mouth and push them outif it's too big for them to
handle.
So thank you so much for forexplaining this, because this
question comes up all the time,and it's true, if you think
about it, it makes sense thatgagging would be a normal
protective mechanism, becausebabies don't know how they're
(09:30):
not confident eaters, yetthey're learning how to eat. So
it's so brilliant that the bodyhas them gag, but it's
frightening as a parent towatch, so thanks for that
reminder.
Yeah. And then as they you know,as you give them more exposure
to different foods and differenttextures and all of that, the
gag reflex will move backwardsto where it is in the adult so
you shouldn't really experiencethat later on as much as you do
(09:52):
when you're first introducingsolids. A
lot of parents have questionsabout baby led feeding, baby led
weaning. Can you explain whatthat is? You define that? Yes.
Sotypically, baby led weaning is
considered giving your childfinger foods instead of purees.
So you're giving them big piecesof food that they can pick up
with their pomeras and selffeed. That is typically when you
(10:13):
ask somebody what baby ledweaning is? That is what they
think. But really, baby ledweaning is just allowing your
child to self feed no matterwhat type of food you're giving
them. So if a parent is doingpurees and letting the child
self feed purees, that's stillbaby led weaning, because you're
still allowing the child to leadthe way and feed themselves and
choose when to stop and when toeat more. So I think there is a
(10:36):
big misconception, like, ifsomebody says they're doing baby
led weaning, that means thatthey think that they can't do
purees. But that's not true atall. So our book really talks
about that a lot, because weencourage parents to do what
they feel most comfortable with.
And if that's starting withpurees, then we want you to
start with purees. And if youwant to do finger foods, then we
(10:59):
want to give you the educationyou need to do it safely. So
we're really big on responsivefeeding, which that just means
that we let baby lead the way.
We honor their hunger cues. Sowhen they're giving us signs of
fullness, we stop when we don'tpressure them to eat more, and
when they're showing signs ofhunger, we give more portions,
or we allow them to self feedmore. So does that answer that
(11:19):
question? Ittotally does. And so I think
that's really helpful, becausethere's a lot of myths out there
about baby led weaning. I thinksome parents feel like they're
supposed to give their kidshunks of chicken right from the
get go. And for a lot offamilies, I think that that
feels scary, and I understandthat, because they're worried
about choking. And for so manyyears, we've advised kids to
(11:40):
start with purees or ricecereal. And so I think for older
generations, when you see kidstake chunks of food, that can
feel like a risky thing to do,but I like what you're
describing, and I think this isright, that the big picture is
we just want kids to enjoyfeeding. We want to honor their
hunger cues. I think all of uscan agree that it doesn't feel
(12:02):
good to be forced to eatsomething. So what I feel like
you're doing is you're settingup a tone for joyful feeding,
which to me, feels fantastic.
Yeah, we we say it well, I sayto all my clients a lot, and we
repeat it over and over again inthe book, like your kids can
sense when you're anxious orstressed or overwhelmed. And so
if doing baby led weaning orbaby led feeding is making you
(12:26):
stressed and overwhelmed atmeals, then that's probably not
the route you should take rightnow. Maybe you could revisit it.
But there's also a lot oftexture exposure you can give
when doing puree. So instead ofjust sticking to a thin puree
for weeks at a time, and notgiving them a lot of exposure to
develop a diverse palette. Wecan just slightly thicken
(12:47):
purees, or we can add some moretexture in the purees. And so
you can do like a gradualincrease in the puree thickness
to get to, like a mashed potatoor a scrambled egg. And so
you're still allowing themopportunity to learn how to eat
different textures. Fantastic.
And then I find that this is ahelpful mention for for for
parents that are startingfeeding, I always like to tell
(13:09):
them the most common chokinghazards for kids, because that
way they can understand thefoods that we'd like them to
avoid. So can you talk aboutwhat those choking hazards
really are? Yeah, I thinkthe big ones are like cherry
tomatoes, grapes, anything roundand circular that's like the
perfect fit to clog yourwindpipe. Other things are like
things that are too hard orcrunchy. We're only going to
(13:31):
give soft, Mashable things thatwe can put in our fingers and
squish easily. Those are theonly types of foods that we're
giving our baby. Of course,we're not going to give them.
Hot dogs, dried fruit, nuts,seeds, things like that. What
other ones are you thinking of?
No, that's perfect. I alwaysthink if you can picture that
it's the perfect size to lodgein an airway that wouldn't get
(13:54):
dissolved by saliva. So youmentioned perfect ones, hot
dogs, grapes, whole nuts, driedchicken, hard candies, popcorns
a culprit. So I think if you canpicture the typical foods that
cause most choking risk tochildren, I think for a lot of
parents, that can be a reliefjust to know what foods in
particular are best to avoid.
Yeah, we alwayssay, like, use the smush test,
(14:17):
which is just smushing itbetween your own fingers before
you provide it to the baby.
Generally, if you can squish itbetween your fingers and it
easily gives that's a good signthat it's okay for your baby. I
really like that. The smushtest, I'm going to use that and
some of those foods that Imentioned, too, you can make
them safe if you cut them intosmall pieces. So grapes, for
example, yes, it's risky to giveit to a child that's young,
(14:40):
whole, but if you cut it intomultiple pieces, then it's a
fine food to give. Then it wouldpass the smush test.
Yeah. So yeah, for grape,specifically, if they're
quartered, they can be given,actually, to, I think, nine to
12 month plus. I like to err onthe side of caution and say 12
months plus. But I believe,because it's such a small piece,
and they're using their PIN. Orgrass to pick it up, it is
(15:01):
considered safe in quartersaround nine or 10 months, I
find that a lot of parents, theyrestrict their kids to a very
small menu, and I want to talkabout the best ways, or some
helpful advice on how to makekids more adventurous eaters. So
in other words, if you give akid a food, like, let's say, a
vegetable, and they don't likeit the first time they try it.
(15:24):
What would you advise to parentskeep offering it? So studies
show that it may take up to 10to 12 exposures to a new food
for a child to become receptiveto even trying that food, and
that can feel reallyoverwhelming and like a lot of
work for not like reaping a lotof rewards early on, but I talk
about this a lot on my platform,because I promise you that it
(15:45):
works. We could also try, like,adding different flavors. So not
just serving the food the sameway every single time, but maybe
adding a different flavorprofile or serving it in
different ways, like eggs, is areally great, great example of
that. There's so many differentways we can serve an we can
serve an egg, right? We could doFrench toast. We could do a
boiled egg, we could doscrambled egg. We could do an
(16:07):
egg omelet. So if your child'snot loving it the first couple
times you try it, let's trysomething different, and maybe
just the different presentationwould be enough to get them
interested in trying it. We alsoreally encourage, like, food
exploration. So we know thatwhen kids are able to feel
things and have their sensesinvolved in it, it can increase
(16:29):
their receptiveness to bringingthat thing to their mouth. So
if, if you're not comfortabledoing it at meal times, having a
time apart from meals where yougive them that food that they're
not really interested in, andlet them feel it and play with
it and touch it and smell it andtalk about it so they get a
little bit more comfortable withit, in hopes that the next time
(16:49):
we offer it at a meal time, theywill try it.
I love that reminder, because Ithink it is so easy for us as
parents to, let's say, makebroccoli one time, two times,
three times, and if the kidsreject it, they don't eat it. We
make this assumption thatthey're never going to like
broccoli, but it's such ahelpful message to know it takes
(17:10):
10, 1215, times for kids to beexposed where they're maybe
going to taste that thatvegetable. And also, I love that
reminder and that piece ofadvice that preparing it
differently may help kids bemore interested in taking that
food. I know that's true formyself.
Same, same. Sometimes I don'tlike the way things look or feel
or smell. I don't know, so Ijust, I always try to relate it
(17:32):
back to adults too. Like thefirst time we're given a new
food that maybe is like acultural food that we've never
experienced before, like we maybe a little bit iffy on if we
want to try it or not,especially if it's not something
we've seen before, something wedon't know anything about. So I
just like, try to, like, helpmoms feel a little bit more like
(17:55):
that's the same thing we'redoing when we give our kids a
new food that they've never hadbefore. So we just need to give
them time. And I think the whatwe don't want to do is we don't
want to like pressure them sothat they feel this overwhelming
sense of like my mom isexpecting me to do this. We
really don't want to put thattype of pressure on them. We
just want it to be like anengaging, explore, exploring
(18:16):
situation where there's not aton of pressure or negative
aspect ofit. I love that reminder,
because I find that feeding kidsfor so many families, it becomes
very stressful, and I feel badlyabout that, because it really
shouldn't be. So these are greattips. Okay, now, now I'm really
curious. So you are a pediatricdietitian. You've a lot of
experience. You've written aboutthis, you've read about this,
(18:36):
you've treated a lot of familiesfor yourself as a mom, did you
come up against any roadblocksthat you weren't expecting?
That's a really great question,and I honestly think that is the
reason why I have such afollowing on social media, is
because of me sharing real lifefood struggles. So with my first
(18:59):
son, he is six months. He's sixyears old now, but at 12 months,
we got diagnosed with irondeficiency anemia. I knew all
about giving iron rich foods. Idid it from the get go. I did
all the quote, unquote, rightthings, but we still struggled
with that. So I feel like I'mable to speak to that quite a
(19:19):
bit better now, because I'vewalked through it myself with
Hayes, who's my almost threeyear old. He has a dairy
allergy. I promote, like,introduce top allergens early
and often to prevent foodallergies. All the time, I did
that, and we still had a childwho had a dairy allergy, and we
do still sometimes have foods. Imean, I I am going to say I am
(19:43):
very, very lucky that I have theeducation that I have to promote
really great dietary habits formy kids early on, and I don't
take that for granted. But evenwith me doing all of these
things, we do, still somesometimes have foods that
they're not interested in, ormeals that they're just not.
Wanting to partake in and so Ithink being able to share, like
real life, what approaches I usearound those struggles and
(20:07):
challenges have, like, reallyhelped a lot of other mothers
who don't have the educationthat I do, but it can probably
be really helpful to see thateven though I know all these
things, it's not like it's 100%going to prevent any feeding
challenges. AndI'm sorry that your kids have
had those struggles, but I'llbet it makes you a better
pediatric dietitian. Oh forsure, I can
(20:27):
relate better. I can give betterinsight, because it's things
that I've had to dig deeperinto. So I do definitely feel
like I'm thankful for thosechallenges. Now,
you just touched upon earlyintroduction of allergens. Can
you explain what that means andgive advice to families on how
to do that. Because I, forexample, I know we talk a lot
about early introduction ofnuts, and for a lot of families
(20:48):
that can feel stressful. Do youhave any specific advice on that
front? Yeah, sowe have a pediatric allergist on
our team at baby leads the wayin our book, and she wrote a
whole chapter all about this,and she's like the queen of
allergy information. Yes, thegeneral recommendations are that
we want to rec that we want tointroduce top nine allergens
early and often for thepotential for preventing food
(21:09):
allergies. It used to be thatthey recommended that we avoid
them, and then we noticed thatthat actually, their studies
showed that actually caused moreissues. So when it comes to
things like peanuts and eggs,which are like the top ones that
we have a lot of significantresearch on, eggs are pretty
easy. We've talked about them alot. Those are pretty easy to
(21:29):
get into their diet early andoften. But then we talked about
nuts being a choking risk, andnow you're telling me to give
them to a six month old. Solike, Please debunk that for me.
So I was so but nuts areactually, there's so many
products available now that makeit really, really easy to
introduce nuts to your kids. Sothey have peanut butter puffs.
They have ground peanuts, sothat you can just like,
(21:49):
literally sprinkle it into theiroatmeal in their morning, or
their yogurt, or whatever istheir usual puree. The peanut
butter puffs were like, a hugehit with my boys. But then you
can also just use regular peanutbutter, unsalted and unsweetened
if possible. And you can justadd a little bit of breast milk
or formula or water and thin itout and give that on a spoon for
them. So there's a lot of waysto just give, like, a small
(22:12):
amount of peanut early and oftento help prevent them having a
peanut allergy. Haveyou ever heard of Ready Set food
or any of those earlyintroduction products that have
peanuts pulverized already foryou? Yes, yeah. And
I say, if that's the easiest wayfor you to get it in, then go
for it.
(22:33):
Yeah. I'm full so, fulldisclosure, I have allergies in
my family. My nephew has reallysignificant allergies, and so my
two brothers in law, that'sactually their products. But
that's something that a lot ofus don't know about, how
important it is to introduceallergens early. And the way I
think about it is, you know thatclean hygiene hypothesis, like
(22:53):
kids that are too clean, theyget sick more often. You really
want to expose them, have themroll around in dirt, expose
their body to all sorts ofgerms. That actually makes the
immune system stronger. It'svery similar with foods that the
more you're exposed, the earlieryou're exposed. While it's not
perfect at preventing allallergies like you experienced
in your life, it makes a bigimpact in preventing allergies
in the future. Yeah,it's a relatively like, simpler
(23:14):
thing that we can do tohopefully prevent a bigger
issue. So yeah, I'm so happythat so many brands are like
creating these products thatmake it easier for parents to
introduce allergens early.
I also just think it's a goodreminder that it's actually
helpful to not be so rigid whenit comes to feeding different
kinds of foods to our kids. Youknow, whether it's whatever's on
(23:35):
our plate, just put a little biton our finger, put it in put it
in their mouth, just to taste,to explore, just to encourage a
variety in the diet from theoutset, I think is a helpful
reminder.
Yeah, I think, you know, like,especially if you're a family
that has, like, a lot ofcultural dishes that you really
love and enjoy, maybe they'rehave a little bit of spice or a
little bit of something in them.
Like, if we want our kids to eatthat when they're 12 months, or
(23:57):
when they're two years old, orwhen they're three years old, we
can start giving them aspects ofthat meal right at six months.
So it's not like a transitionperiod, right? They're already
used to it. They've been givenit. Maybe we might have to dull
down the spices or the salt orthe sugar or whatever it is, but
it's not a new brand new food tothem. They've already been given
opportunities to learn to likeit.
(24:19):
Yes, and I have to say readinglike Instagram pages like yours,
or reading books on how tointroduce foods that can be so
helpful. I remember my childrendid not like sweet potatoes.
They were not interested invegetables. And I read, just try
adding cinnamon, and that madesuch a big difference. So you're
right, some added spices reallycan make a big difference. So
(24:39):
now I want to ask you, meal timewith children can be so
stressful. We know it's a greattime to be together, but
inevitably, it causes stress.
Kids throw their foods on thefloor. They don't want to eat
what we're serving them. Can yougive some tips in general? How
can parents Make mealtime lessstressful? Okay,
my top three tips. Tips, andthey're going to be so simple
(25:01):
that people are going to belike, those aren't really even
tips, but I promise you, theywork. Is if we're introducing a
new food or something that weknow that's not their favorite,
we want to make sure that wealways have a safe food on their
plate, so that's a food that weknow they enjoy. So if we have a
plate full of non preferredfoods or foods they've never had
(25:21):
before. We're most likely goingto have a mealtime battle. But
if you give a plate with maybetwo of their favorite foods and
then one non preferred food, itimmediately makes the meal more
approachable to them. It makesthem feel safe, it makes them
feel comfortable, and they knowthat even if they don't eat that
non preferred food, they havefoods on their plate that they
do like and they are going towant to eat. So that would be
(25:43):
like one simple thing to do.
Secondly, with those nonpreferred or new foods, we're
going to start really small.
We're not going to give them,like a heaping portion of
broccoli if we know they don'tlike it or they've never had it
before. We're going to give themlike a tiny, itty bitty piece.
It's going to make it veryapproachable, and they're not
going to feel overwhelmed. So Ilike to use those all the time.
(26:07):
And then, thirdly, with inregards to like, non preferred
not liking foods is we can justtalk about the food. We don't
have to say, just try a bite. Wecould be like, hey, what does it
smell like? Can you pick it up?
Just picking it up is a greatstep to them eating it. Can you
pick it up and can you smell it?
What does it smell like to you?
What does it remind you of? Doesit remind you of a tree? Because
it kind of reminds me of a treeand one of the silliest things.
(26:29):
I mean, sometimes meals have tobe silly, and I know that's hard
for people that that reallylike, like a very structured
meal time, but sometimes gettingkids to try new foods takes some
creativity and some silliness.
For instance, like withbroccoli. My boys love broccoli
because we talk about them beingtrees, and we are lumberjacks
(26:53):
and we're gonna cut down thetrees with our mouth. I don't
know, does it make sense? Notreally, but my kids are like,
yes, we're gonna be lumberjackstoday. I'm gonna cut down the
biggest tree. And that wasenough to get them comfortable
with putting the broccoli intheir mouth, and now they enjoy
the flavor. So I think we talkabout different tactics and how
to do this in our book a lot,but just like making it more
(27:14):
approachable, because withanything, we just need to, we
just need to make it fun for ourkids. And then they're like,
Yeah, I'm into it. That'sso true. I remember with
carrots, we would pretend to berabbits, and we'd have silly
voices. We'd make it funny, we'dmake it silly, and then all of a
sudden, we're having a greattime eating vegetables.
Yeah, and you're having a goodtime, you're not stressed about
it, and you never had to, like,say you have to eat this or you
(27:36):
can't get up. You know what Imean? Like, that kind of makes
us feel bad if we had to saythat. So it just reframes it for
us too.
Now, what about kids that don'teat that much? That is something
that is so stressful forparents, they can hone in on the
fact that their kid didn't eatthat much at a meal, and I just
know that it for so many parentsthat's really hard for them to
finish a meal and know thattheir kid did not eat that much
(27:58):
quantity. What's your advice inthat situation?
Yeah, this is a this is a goodquestion that I feel like has a
lot of layers. I think there isa widespread we as parents feel
like our kids need a much largervolume than they actually do. So
I think that would be like myfirst point is, if we have
really encouraged intuitiveeating from the get go,
(28:21):
encouraged our child to stopeating and eat when they're
full. We we can learn to trustthem in some instances. Well,
when it comes to feeding, sorry,I said that wrong. But if
they're coming to the table andwe've given them safe foods, we
know that we've given them somefoods that they enjoy and they
like, and they've eaten to theirfull, and it's not the portion
size we wanted them to consume.
We just need to check and makesure, like, is that actually the
(28:43):
right portion size for them, oris it the portion size that I
want them to eat? You know whatI mean. So after 12 months of
age, growth rate, like, reallydecreases in the first year of
life. We're, like, expectingkids to, like, triple in birth
weight, right? And so they mightactually more in that first year
of life when it comes to solidfoods, and then once they hit
toddlerhood, their appetitesslow down, because we don't want
(29:04):
them to triple their weightthree times in a year, every
year. So I feel like that's abig thing. I talk to clients a
lot about, like, just ourexpectations on what the
appropriate volume is. But I doknow there are many kids that do
struggle with severe, pickyeating or sensory issues or
feeding issues, and they're noteating what they need. And if
you feel like that is a problem,that you're go, that you're
(29:28):
walking with through, throughwith your kid, then we always
recommend like just seeking outadditional support. It might be
totally normal. They might beeating exactly what they need
for their body, but if you'reconcerned, seek out support from
a dietitian or a feedingtherapist or your pediatrician
just to make sure that thingsare on the right track,
perfect. And I and I agree, it'swhen you think about it, I love
(29:50):
that you pointed out thetripling the birth weight,
because if you think about itquantitatively, so if, let's
say, an average baby is bornaround seven pounds, they
usually double their weight by.
Four months, they're 14 pounds,and then, and then around a
year, they're tripled, andthey're over 20 pounds. That's a
big increase. And thenoftentimes, when I see kids jump
from year one to year two, maybethey'll just gain three, four
(30:11):
pounds. So you're right that thethe rate of weight increase
significant, significantlydeclines, and that can throw
parents off from what they'rewhat they are used to seeing the
first year. And I have a lot ofparents, they'll say, oh my
goodness, my one year old isonly four pounds away from my
three year old. That can't benormal. My three year old must
be not eating enough. But it'sactually typical. Yeah,
(30:35):
no, I completely agree. And Ithink when they hit that 12
month mark, and we're startingto notice less volume is when
parents get really worriedbecause they don't understand
the growth rate changes. Andthat's when they're like, Okay,
we're going to give themwhatever they will eat. So
they're going to give them allthe same foods over and over
again, because they're worriedabout their child meeting their
(30:56):
nutritional needs and notgaining enough weight. And so
then we or not getting enoughyeah, not gaining enough weight.
And so then we run into the factthat they're so worried about
giving them what they need thatwe've stopped giving variety.
And then we have to kind of goback and, like, help create a
diverse diet again, once ourkids are a little bit more
independent and a little bitless adventurous, the
(31:17):
other thing that I find that isnormal, so I want to point this
out to parents, because I thinkit can add stress, but it's very
common for kids to eat a greatmeal and then the next two,
three meals not be so great. AndI think a lot of US adults, we
are accustomed to having hungerfor breakfast, lunch, dinner,
and kids, I find are much moreattuned to eating when they're
really hungry. Do you find thatas well? Yes,
(31:40):
and I think there's actually,I think there's some data about,
like, looking at a child's fiveto six day window of eats is
more accurate on like, how wellthey're doing with meeting their
body needs, versus like, lookinglike at one meal or one day. So
we may notice that one day, ourkid just doesn't eat a ton, and
the next day they eat everythingin sight. And it just fluctuates
(32:01):
so much.
I love that. I think lookingback at a five, six day window
just feels so much lessstressful. So going back to my
initial goal of trying to makemealtime and feeding kids less
stressful, if you hone in onevery meal and hoping that they
eat what we're expecting, we'rejust going to set ourselves up
for more disappointment, morestress. So that's a that's a
(32:23):
great piece of advice. I reallylike that. Now another, another
common concern I get fromparents, they wonder about
convenient foods. So there's alot out there about having snack
foods and pouches. Do you haveany feelings about whether that
is not advisable, or advisable,or somewhere in the middle, tell
me your thoughts on convenientsnack foods.
(32:43):
I think for most families, it'snearly impossible to go without
any convenience or packagedsnacks. I think with working
moms, myself included, like it'sreally nice to have some trusted
packaged foods on hands that youknow, like they're low and added
sugar, they have nutrients thatour kids needs, like they're
fortified with iron or calcium,and so I definitely think that
there's a place for packagedsnacks. I do feel like there's
(33:08):
an we rely on them too much. Ido think that, you know, our
kids are going to eat thepackaged snacks probably more
willingly than they would like abanana or a cucumber or
something, because the packagedsnack looks the same every
single time they get it. Thereis the same thing in it. It's
comfortable, it's predictable.
Versus a cucumber is going tolook different depending on
which one you buy. A banana isgoing to look different. So I do
(33:29):
think there is an over relianceon packaged snacks. I definitely
feel that they can help fill agap. But I do push for can we
get most of their nutritionalneeds met from whole foods when
possible. That'sgreat. I think that's such
practical, real, helpful advice,because a lot of new parents can
put a lot of pressure onthemselves to make their meals
(33:49):
from scratch, to have it homecooked, and that's just not
real. That's not that's just notrealistic.
So yeah, giving yourself graceto use convenient options when
you need it to fill your own cupand then refocus on another meal
that's going to be like, whatyou expect is like a nutritious
diet, I think is really key. Imean, like, we, you know, we can
(34:13):
use, like, a can of tomatoes tomake a homemade pasta sauce
that's still considered apackage convenient, convenient
food. But I'm not going to usecanned tomatoes just because I'm
going to need to grow them frommy grow them from my garden. Do
you know what I mean? Like, Ithink there's a place for them,
for sure.
Yes. And also I I rememberfeeling very defeated when I
tried really hard to make foodfrom scratch. I'm not someone
(34:33):
that looks that enjoys cooking,to be honest. And so I remember
making really great homemadesoups that were really healthy.
And then when my kids didn'twant them, it just felt very
stressful. So, you know, I thinkthe reality is just going for
those Whole Foods, however,however you can get them in your
kids, and then looking for abalanced approach, to me, feels
like a good way to think aboutfeeding your kids. Yeah,
(34:55):
and I do want to point out thatI feel like brands are stepping
up to provide. Provide morenutritious snack options for
kids. And I don't feel like wehad this 10 years ago, so I'm
thankful for the brands that aredoing a good job of giving us
packaged snacks that are alsohelpful in meeting nutritional
needs, like less dyes, lessadded sugars, lower in sodium,
(35:15):
more natural ingredients there.
You know, there's tons of barsnow that are just like literally
made out of dates and groundnuts and stuff. You know me like
things that you could make athome. Yeah, you could do it, but
you're not always going to havetime to so I do think that we do
have better options now.
Fantastic.
That's great to hear now, aswe conclude, if you could give
parents one final takeawaymessage that you'd like them to
(35:37):
get from your book, one keymessage, what would it be?
You can stop googling. It'sstarting solids and feeding your
kids doesn't have to bestressful if you're equipped
with evidence based guidelinesand feel confident. And so I
think this, this book is to helpparents just be able to take a
deep breath, have theinformation at hand, go through
(35:58):
whatever chapter they need to atthe moment, have their lists and
their recommendations and knowthat this is Bapt research.
I love it. I love it so much I'mstill going to think of a new
we'll say under one, just forfun, I'm trying to think of a
new another one. I probablyshould have already come up with
a new one at this point. If I'mgoing to say, don't use it, I
need to come up with a new one,right? I'll think about it
though. I'll let you know.
(36:21):
How aboutif you're going to eat food,
have it put you in a good mood?
How's that? That's great. Well,to be continued, we'll keep
working on it. I'll get back toyou, or get back to me. If you
think of anything, I will. Thankyou so much. I'm really excited
for you. If anyone's looking fora fantastic resource to give
confidence, to give goodevidence based advice on how to
(36:43):
start feeding, how to raisehappy, healthy eaters in a way
that's not too stressful. Idefinitely recommend getting
baby leads the way andcongratulations. Thank you so
much for having me. I reallyappreciate it. Thank you for
listening, and I hope youenjoyed this week's episode of
your child is normal. Also, ifyou could take a moment and
leave a five star reviewwherever it is. You listen to
podcasts, I would greatlyappreciate it. It really makes a
(37:04):
difference to help this podcastgrow. You can also follow me on
Instagram at ask Dr Jessica. Seeyou next Monday. You.
Hi everyone, and welcome back to your child is
normal. I'm your host andpediatrician, Dr Jessica
Hochman, so today's episode isall about feeding our kids,
especially during those earlymonths when we're introducing
solid foods and figuring out howto raise healthy eaters. My
guest today is pediatricdietitian Cynthia Scott. She's
the co author of the fantasticnew book baby leads the way. You
(00:21):
might already know Cynthia asthe baby dietitian on Instagram
where she shares practicalevidence based tips with over a
half a million followers. Inthis episode, you'll hear us
talk about everything from thebest first foods to try to
navigating picky eating, earlyallergen exposure and how to
handle stressful meal times. Ifyou've ever felt overwhelmed
trying to make sure that yourchild is getting the right
(00:43):
foods. This episode is for you.
And before we dive in, if youcould take a moment and please
leave a five star reviewwherever it is you listen to
podcasts, I'd really appreciateit. Reviews help others find the
show. Now, let's get startedwith Cynthia Scott. Cynthia
Scott, I can't wait to get intoyour new book. It's very
exciting. So thanks for beinghere. Thank you
for having you for having me.
I'm really excited to talk aboutit and share it with your
(01:04):
followers.
So tell me what made you thinkto write a book about
introducing solids. There's somany existing books out there.
What need did you think yourbook would fill? That's a great
question. So I do feel like it'skind of been a long time in the
making. When I started solidswith my six year old, I was
given a lot of like informationthat I felt like I couldn't, I
(01:27):
didn't. Was like, I wasquestioning a lot of things, and
I was like, hmm, like, let's goget some books and read up on
this topic, which is what I loveto do. And what was like,
glaringly obvious was each bookwas so different, like, they
were actually, like, telling youthe opposite things to do. And
so then I just got reallyconfused. And I was like, Okay,
well, as a dietitian, I shouldbe able to, you know, go through
(01:50):
the research and, like, maybecreate a more practical tips.
That's evidence based. I reallywanted it to be evidence based.
So me and a team of other healthcare professionals, a pediatric
allergist, a pediatrician and aspeech language pathologist, and
then a mom who's also like achef. We got together, and we
created a book called 101 beforeone, and it was more so focused
(02:12):
on evidence based tips, but alsolike recipes and how to feed
your kids easily, making justone meal. And so then, after we
did that, we really wanted tohave pediatricians get their
hands on a quick to read, likeeasy guide for them, because I
know that pediatricians have somuch on their plate, so giving
them like a pocket guide wouldbe helpful for them to keep
(02:35):
updated on current guidelines.
And so the AAP reached out tous. The American Academy of
Pediatrics reach out to us, Ithink about two and a half,
almost three years ago, andwe're like, hey, we want to
create this resource, and wewould be happy to help you do
it. And so our team was like,Absolutely, like, this is
exactly what we wanted to do. Sothat's kind of a short story of
how it started.
(02:57):
I'm so happy to have this bookto talk to you about your book,
because I find feeding is reallyinteresting, because it should
be fun, right? We all loveeating. Eating is a joyous
occasion. I look forward to mymeals. I know everybody can
relate to me when I say that,but for many, many reasons, when
it comes to introducing solidsto our kids, feeding kids in
general, I find with a lot offamilies, it's a very stressful
(03:19):
process. So I love that yourbook is going to help teach
parents how to make feeding morefun, more enjoyable and less
stressful.
Yes, um, I'm sure you've heardthe term like food before. One
is just for fun, and we kind ofdebunk that a little bit,
because food should always befun. Like, there's never a point
where, like, food should not befun, but there is a purpose for
(03:40):
it, right? There's always, andthere is a need for it at six
months of age. So it's notalways just for fun, but it
always should be fun. So wereally want to equip parents to
come to the table like and it bea fun environment and a pleasant
environment. And we kind of helpanswer a lot of questions that
parents have that can sometimesmake feeding kids really
(04:00):
stressful and overwhelming.
You'll have, you'll have to helpme think of a new saying to say
to parents. I say it all thetime.
We'll come up with one. Yeah,we'll come up with one Food For
Life. Should not cause strife. Idon't know what we'll come up
with one that's, that's good.
Well, I really always like tosay that when we're introducing
solids, they're calledcomplementary feedings for a
(04:22):
reason, because they're justcomplimenting their milk based
diet. So we're not expectingthem to eat huge volumes or to
take away from milk feeds. Milkfeeds are still meeting the
maturity of their nutritionalneeds for the first 12 months of
life, and we're just giving themlots of opportunities for
exposure to learn to like newflavors, to learn to like new
textures, and in the process,help meet some of those
(04:45):
nutrition goals that may beharder to meet with just our
milk diet, like iron. Yes,absolutely. So okay, I thought
what my audience might enjoy isI would like to address some of
the more stressful concerns thatI hear from parents as they
start feeding. Their children.
So I wanted to start the mostcommon concern I hear from
parents is they're not sure whatfood to start with. There's such
(05:07):
mixed advice that's given. Sowhat do you say to families?
What are some good first foodsto think about? Well,
like we talked about ironbeforehand, iron is one of the
core nutrients that our kidsreally need enough of, and they
have a really high estimatedneed of iron in the first 12
months of life, and that ironhelps fuel neuro development. So
I like to say, instead of itjust being like one specific
(05:31):
food, like, I just try to focuson iron rich foods, if you can.
That could be a sweet potato,like a plant based source of
iron, like a sweet potato, youcould match that up. Or you
could serve finger food style,like baked sweet potato wedges.
Avocados are great for theirhealthy fats, which we know
babies really need a lot ofthat. Other iron rich foods
(05:52):
could be, like we did, a lot ofground beef mixed into like
mashed potatoes or butternutsquash or pumpkin so that, if
you're one, if you're notcomfortable yet giving like a
whole meatball or ground meatson their own. You can mix them
and make them into a texturedpuree. So I really like to focus
on iron rich foods. Other goodones are like roasted broccoli,
(06:14):
quinoa or lentils, things likethat. And of course, you know,
we rely heavily in the US oniron fortified cereals. Those
can be a fine addition too, totheir diet. If you want to use
those, it could be a reallyhelpful way to get a lot of iron
into your kids who are onlyconsuming a few bites here and
there. I know some people reallydon't like to use them, and if
you don't like to use them,that's fine. Just focus on whole
(06:37):
food sources of iron, rich foodstoo. And then, of course, like
just lots of variety withwhatever you're offering,
some of my favorite iron richfoods also are just, just to
chime in there to give parentsmore ideas. I love anything from
the bean family. So black beans,pinto beans, great source of
iron, and also eggs. Egg yolksare really rich in iron, and
sometimes that's an easy way tointroduce iron, because a lot of
(07:00):
families enjoy scrambling eggsor having eggs in the diet, so
it's an easy way to not, notchange what you're already
eating and make sure that you'regiving your your children the
nutrition that they need. Yeah,we really focus on like just
baking one feel one meal for thewhole family, so taking whatever
the family is used to eating inthe morning and seeing if we can
modify that. You know, withinreason, if we're eating
(07:21):
something that's totallyinappropriate for the kids, or a
choking risk, we wouldn't givethat. But trying to go off what,
like you said, what parents arealready making in the morning,
and try to make it appropriatefor the kiddo to enjoy as well,
amazing and just for parentsthat are listening that might be
concerned, how do I know if mykid is getting enough iron?
Something that we routinely doat the pediatrician visits is
(07:42):
somewhere around a year we checkan iron so that can help gage
families on whether or not theirchildren are getting enough
iron. Okay, so another commonquestion that I get kids when
they start eating foods, it'svery common, and actually
expected that they gag, and thatcan frighten a lot of parents,
and I noticed that you talkabout this a lot on your
Instagram page, which I reallyappreciate. How should we view
(08:04):
that gag reflex?
Yeah, that's a great question.
So when we're first startingsolids, well, babies naturally
have their gag reflex furtherforward in their mouth. So it's
not like us, where ours isfarther in our back, um, it's up
at the front of their mouth. Sowhen introducing anything,
including purees. We may expectsome gagging right from the get
go. This could be their firstbite of food, or maybe it's a
(08:27):
few meals in. But this is, thisis a protective effect. So the
body is doing this to protectthe child from choking, so it's
not choking. Gagging and chokingare totally different. Gagging
is when we see the tongue thrustout of the mouth. We're hearing
noises, and usually some of thefood will come out of their
mouth as they thrust theirtongue forward. So this is a
(08:47):
protective effect. We we like tosee it. It's not a bad thing
unless it's happening all thetime, but so we should expect to
see some of this one forstarting solids in the first
month or two. It's typicallyconsidered normal, so that is
why we typically recommend, ifyou're doing baby led weaning,
that you're doing the biggerpieces of food, because babies
don't have a lot of oralawareness quite yet, so the
(09:09):
bigger pieces are easier forthem to find out where they are
in their mouth and push them outif it's too big for them to
handle.
So thank you so much for forexplaining this, because this
question comes up all the time,and it's true, if you think
about it, it makes sense thatgagging would be a normal
protective mechanism, becausebabies don't know how they're
(09:30):
not confident eaters, yetthey're learning how to eat. So
it's so brilliant that the bodyhas them gag, but it's
frightening as a parent towatch, so thanks for that
reminder.
Yeah. And then as they you know,as you give them more exposure
to different foods and differenttextures and all of that, the
gag reflex will move backwardsto where it is in the adult so
you shouldn't really experiencethat later on as much as you do
(09:52):
when you're first introducingsolids. A
lot of parents have questionsabout baby led feeding, baby led
weaning. Can you explain whatthat is? You define that? Yes.
Sotypically, baby led weaning is
considered giving your childfinger foods instead of purees.
So you're giving them big piecesof food that they can pick up
with their pomeras and selffeed. That is typically when you
(10:13):
ask somebody what baby ledweaning is? That is what they
think. But really, baby ledweaning is just allowing your
child to self feed no matterwhat type of food you're giving
them. So if a parent is doingpurees and letting the child
self feed purees, that's stillbaby led weaning, because you're
still allowing the child to leadthe way and feed themselves and
choose when to stop and when toeat more. So I think there is a
(10:36):
big misconception, like, ifsomebody says they're doing baby
led weaning, that means thatthey think that they can't do
purees. But that's not true atall. So our book really talks
about that a lot, because weencourage parents to do what
they feel most comfortable with.
And if that's starting withpurees, then we want you to
start with purees. And if youwant to do finger foods, then we
(10:59):
want to give you the educationyou need to do it safely. So
we're really big on responsivefeeding, which that just means
that we let baby lead the way.
We honor their hunger cues. Sowhen they're giving us signs of
fullness, we stop when we don'tpressure them to eat more, and
when they're showing signs ofhunger, we give more portions,
or we allow them to self feedmore. So does that answer that
(11:19):
question? Ittotally does. And so I think
that's really helpful, becausethere's a lot of myths out there
about baby led weaning. I thinksome parents feel like they're
supposed to give their kidshunks of chicken right from the
get go. And for a lot offamilies, I think that that
feels scary, and I understandthat, because they're worried
about choking. And for so manyyears, we've advised kids to
(11:40):
start with purees or ricecereal. And so I think for older
generations, when you see kidstake chunks of food, that can
feel like a risky thing to do,but I like what you're
describing, and I think this isright, that the big picture is
we just want kids to enjoyfeeding. We want to honor their
hunger cues. I think all of uscan agree that it doesn't feel
(12:02):
good to be forced to eatsomething. So what I feel like
you're doing is you're settingup a tone for joyful feeding,
which to me, feels fantastic.
Yeah, we we say it well, I sayto all my clients a lot, and we
repeat it over and over again inthe book, like your kids can
sense when you're anxious orstressed or overwhelmed. And so
if doing baby led weaning orbaby led feeding is making you
(12:26):
stressed and overwhelmed atmeals, then that's probably not
the route you should take rightnow. Maybe you could revisit it.
But there's also a lot oftexture exposure you can give
when doing puree. So instead ofjust sticking to a thin puree
for weeks at a time, and notgiving them a lot of exposure to
develop a diverse palette. Wecan just slightly thicken
(12:47):
purees, or we can add some moretexture in the purees. And so
you can do like a gradualincrease in the puree thickness
to get to, like a mashed potatoor a scrambled egg. And so
you're still allowing themopportunity to learn how to eat
different textures. Fantastic.
And then I find that this is ahelpful mention for for for
parents that are startingfeeding, I always like to tell
(13:09):
them the most common chokinghazards for kids, because that
way they can understand thefoods that we'd like them to
avoid. So can you talk aboutwhat those choking hazards
really are? Yeah, I thinkthe big ones are like cherry
tomatoes, grapes, anything roundand circular that's like the
perfect fit to clog yourwindpipe. Other things are like
things that are too hard orcrunchy. We're only going to
(13:31):
give soft, Mashable things thatwe can put in our fingers and
squish easily. Those are theonly types of foods that we're
giving our baby. Of course,we're not going to give them.
Hot dogs, dried fruit, nuts,seeds, things like that. What
other ones are you thinking of?
No, that's perfect. I alwaysthink if you can picture that
it's the perfect size to lodgein an airway that wouldn't get
(13:54):
dissolved by saliva. So youmentioned perfect ones, hot
dogs, grapes, whole nuts, driedchicken, hard candies, popcorns
a culprit. So I think if you canpicture the typical foods that
cause most choking risk tochildren, I think for a lot of
parents, that can be a reliefjust to know what foods in
particular are best to avoid.
Yeah, we alwayssay, like, use the smush test,
(14:17):
which is just smushing itbetween your own fingers before
you provide it to the baby.
Generally, if you can squish itbetween your fingers and it
easily gives that's a good signthat it's okay for your baby. I
really like that. The smushtest, I'm going to use that and
some of those foods that Imentioned, too, you can make
them safe if you cut them intosmall pieces. So grapes, for
example, yes, it's risky to giveit to a child that's young,
(14:40):
whole, but if you cut it intomultiple pieces, then it's a
fine food to give. Then it wouldpass the smush test.
Yeah. So yeah, for grape,specifically, if they're
quartered, they can be given,actually, to, I think, nine to
12 month plus. I like to err onthe side of caution and say 12
months plus. But I believe,because it's such a small piece,
and they're using their PIN. Orgrass to pick it up, it is
(15:01):
considered safe in quartersaround nine or 10 months, I
find that a lot of parents, theyrestrict their kids to a very
small menu, and I want to talkabout the best ways, or some
helpful advice on how to makekids more adventurous eaters. So
in other words, if you give akid a food, like, let's say, a
vegetable, and they don't likeit the first time they try it.
(15:24):
What would you advise to parentskeep offering it? So studies
show that it may take up to 10to 12 exposures to a new food
for a child to become receptiveto even trying that food, and
that can feel reallyoverwhelming and like a lot of
work for not like reaping a lotof rewards early on, but I talk
about this a lot on my platform,because I promise you that it
(15:45):
works. We could also try, like,adding different flavors. So not
just serving the food the sameway every single time, but maybe
adding a different flavorprofile or serving it in
different ways, like eggs, is areally great, great example of
that. There's so many differentways we can serve an we can
serve an egg, right? We could doFrench toast. We could do a
boiled egg, we could doscrambled egg. We could do an
(16:07):
egg omelet. So if your child'snot loving it the first couple
times you try it, let's trysomething different, and maybe
just the different presentationwould be enough to get them
interested in trying it. We alsoreally encourage, like, food
exploration. So we know thatwhen kids are able to feel
things and have their sensesinvolved in it, it can increase
(16:29):
their receptiveness to bringingthat thing to their mouth. So
if, if you're not comfortabledoing it at meal times, having a
time apart from meals where yougive them that food that they're
not really interested in, andlet them feel it and play with
it and touch it and smell it andtalk about it so they get a
little bit more comfortable withit, in hopes that the next time
(16:49):
we offer it at a meal time, theywill try it.
I love that reminder, because Ithink it is so easy for us as
parents to, let's say, makebroccoli one time, two times,
three times, and if the kidsreject it, they don't eat it. We
make this assumption thatthey're never going to like
broccoli, but it's such ahelpful message to know it takes
(17:10):
10, 1215, times for kids to beexposed where they're maybe
going to taste that thatvegetable. And also, I love that
reminder and that piece ofadvice that preparing it
differently may help kids bemore interested in taking that
food. I know that's true formyself.
Same, same. Sometimes I don'tlike the way things look or feel
or smell. I don't know, so Ijust, I always try to relate it
(17:32):
back to adults too. Like thefirst time we're given a new
food that maybe is like acultural food that we've never
experienced before, like we maybe a little bit iffy on if we
want to try it or not,especially if it's not something
we've seen before, something wedon't know anything about. So I
just like, try to, like, helpmoms feel a little bit more like
(17:55):
that's the same thing we'redoing when we give our kids a
new food that they've never hadbefore. So we just need to give
them time. And I think the whatwe don't want to do is we don't
want to like pressure them sothat they feel this overwhelming
sense of like my mom isexpecting me to do this. We
really don't want to put thattype of pressure on them. We
just want it to be like anengaging, explore, exploring
(18:16):
situation where there's not aton of pressure or negative
aspect ofit. I love that reminder,
because I find that feeding kidsfor so many families, it becomes
very stressful, and I feel badlyabout that, because it really
shouldn't be. So these are greattips. Okay, now, now I'm really
curious. So you are a pediatricdietitian. You've a lot of
experience. You've written aboutthis, you've read about this,
(18:36):
you've treated a lot of familiesfor yourself as a mom, did you
come up against any roadblocksthat you weren't expecting?
That's a really great question,and I honestly think that is the
reason why I have such afollowing on social media, is
because of me sharing real lifefood struggles. So with my first
(18:59):
son, he is six months. He's sixyears old now, but at 12 months,
we got diagnosed with irondeficiency anemia. I knew all
about giving iron rich foods. Idid it from the get go. I did
all the quote, unquote, rightthings, but we still struggled
with that. So I feel like I'mable to speak to that quite a
(19:19):
bit better now, because I'vewalked through it myself with
Hayes, who's my almost threeyear old. He has a dairy
allergy. I promote, like,introduce top allergens early
and often to prevent foodallergies. All the time, I did
that, and we still had a childwho had a dairy allergy, and we
do still sometimes have foods. Imean, I I am going to say I am
(19:43):
very, very lucky that I have theeducation that I have to promote
really great dietary habits formy kids early on, and I don't
take that for granted. But evenwith me doing all of these
things, we do, still somesometimes have foods that
they're not interested in, ormeals that they're just not.
Wanting to partake in and so Ithink being able to share, like
real life, what approaches I usearound those struggles and
(20:07):
challenges have, like, reallyhelped a lot of other mothers
who don't have the educationthat I do, but it can probably
be really helpful to see thateven though I know all these
things, it's not like it's 100%going to prevent any feeding
challenges. AndI'm sorry that your kids have
had those struggles, but I'llbet it makes you a better
pediatric dietitian. Oh forsure, I can
(20:27):
relate better. I can give betterinsight, because it's things
that I've had to dig deeperinto. So I do definitely feel
like I'm thankful for thosechallenges. Now,
you just touched upon earlyintroduction of allergens. Can
you explain what that means andgive advice to families on how
to do that. Because I, forexample, I know we talk a lot
about early introduction ofnuts, and for a lot of families
(20:48):
that can feel stressful. Do youhave any specific advice on that
front? Yeah, sowe have a pediatric allergist on
our team at baby leads the wayin our book, and she wrote a
whole chapter all about this,and she's like the queen of
allergy information. Yes, thegeneral recommendations are that
we want to rec that we want tointroduce top nine allergens
early and often for thepotential for preventing food
(21:09):
allergies. It used to be thatthey recommended that we avoid
them, and then we noticed thatthat actually, their studies
showed that actually caused moreissues. So when it comes to
things like peanuts and eggs,which are like the top ones that
we have a lot of significantresearch on, eggs are pretty
easy. We've talked about them alot. Those are pretty easy to
(21:29):
get into their diet early andoften. But then we talked about
nuts being a choking risk, andnow you're telling me to give
them to a six month old. Solike, Please debunk that for me.
So I was so but nuts areactually, there's so many
products available now that makeit really, really easy to
introduce nuts to your kids. Sothey have peanut butter puffs.
They have ground peanuts, sothat you can just like,
(21:49):
literally sprinkle it into theiroatmeal in their morning, or
their yogurt, or whatever istheir usual puree. The peanut
butter puffs were like, a hugehit with my boys. But then you
can also just use regular peanutbutter, unsalted and unsweetened
if possible. And you can justadd a little bit of breast milk
or formula or water and thin itout and give that on a spoon for
them. So there's a lot of waysto just give, like, a small
(22:12):
amount of peanut early and oftento help prevent them having a
peanut allergy. Haveyou ever heard of Ready Set food
or any of those earlyintroduction products that have
peanuts pulverized already foryou? Yes, yeah. And
I say, if that's the easiest wayfor you to get it in, then go
for it.
(22:33):
Yeah. I'm full so, fulldisclosure, I have allergies in
my family. My nephew has reallysignificant allergies, and so my
two brothers in law, that'sactually their products. But
that's something that a lot ofus don't know about, how
important it is to introduceallergens early. And the way I
think about it is, you know thatclean hygiene hypothesis, like
(22:53):
kids that are too clean, theyget sick more often. You really
want to expose them, have themroll around in dirt, expose
their body to all sorts ofgerms. That actually makes the
immune system stronger. It'svery similar with foods that the
more you're exposed, the earlieryou're exposed. While it's not
perfect at preventing allallergies like you experienced
in your life, it makes a bigimpact in preventing allergies
in the future. Yeah,it's a relatively like, simpler
(23:14):
thing that we can do tohopefully prevent a bigger
issue. So yeah, I'm so happythat so many brands are like
creating these products thatmake it easier for parents to
introduce allergens early.
I also just think it's a goodreminder that it's actually
helpful to not be so rigid whenit comes to feeding different
kinds of foods to our kids. Youknow, whether it's whatever's on
(23:35):
our plate, just put a little biton our finger, put it in put it
in their mouth, just to taste,to explore, just to encourage a
variety in the diet from theoutset, I think is a helpful
reminder.
Yeah, I think, you know, like,especially if you're a family
that has, like, a lot ofcultural dishes that you really
love and enjoy, maybe they'rehave a little bit of spice or a
little bit of something in them.
Like, if we want our kids to eatthat when they're 12 months, or
(23:57):
when they're two years old, orwhen they're three years old, we
can start giving them aspects ofthat meal right at six months.
So it's not like a transitionperiod, right? They're already
used to it. They've been givenit. Maybe we might have to dull
down the spices or the salt orthe sugar or whatever it is, but
it's not a new brand new food tothem. They've already been given
opportunities to learn to likeit.
(24:19):
Yes, and I have to say readinglike Instagram pages like yours,
or reading books on how tointroduce foods that can be so
helpful. I remember my childrendid not like sweet potatoes.
They were not interested invegetables. And I read, just try
adding cinnamon, and that madesuch a big difference. So you're
right, some added spices reallycan make a big difference. So
(24:39):
now I want to ask you, meal timewith children can be so
stressful. We know it's a greattime to be together, but
inevitably, it causes stress.
Kids throw their foods on thefloor. They don't want to eat
what we're serving them. Can yougive some tips in general? How
can parents Make mealtime lessstressful? Okay,
my top three tips. Tips, andthey're going to be so simple
(25:01):
that people are going to belike, those aren't really even
tips, but I promise you, theywork. Is if we're introducing a
new food or something that weknow that's not their favorite,
we want to make sure that wealways have a safe food on their
plate, so that's a food that weknow they enjoy. So if we have a
plate full of non preferredfoods or foods they've never had
(25:21):
before. We're most likely goingto have a mealtime battle. But
if you give a plate with maybetwo of their favorite foods and
then one non preferred food, itimmediately makes the meal more
approachable to them. It makesthem feel safe, it makes them
feel comfortable, and they knowthat even if they don't eat that
non preferred food, they havefoods on their plate that they
do like and they are going towant to eat. So that would be
(25:43):
like one simple thing to do.
Secondly, with those nonpreferred or new foods, we're
going to start really small.
We're not going to give them,like a heaping portion of
broccoli if we know they don'tlike it or they've never had it
before. We're going to give themlike a tiny, itty bitty piece.
It's going to make it veryapproachable, and they're not
going to feel overwhelmed. So Ilike to use those all the time.
(26:07):
And then, thirdly, with inregards to like, non preferred
not liking foods is we can justtalk about the food. We don't
have to say, just try a bite. Wecould be like, hey, what does it
smell like? Can you pick it up?
Just picking it up is a greatstep to them eating it. Can you
pick it up and can you smell it?
What does it smell like to you?
What does it remind you of? Doesit remind you of a tree? Because
it kind of reminds me of a treeand one of the silliest things.
(26:29):
I mean, sometimes meals have tobe silly, and I know that's hard
for people that that reallylike, like a very structured
meal time, but sometimes gettingkids to try new foods takes some
creativity and some silliness.
For instance, like withbroccoli. My boys love broccoli
because we talk about them beingtrees, and we are lumberjacks
(26:53):
and we're gonna cut down thetrees with our mouth. I don't
know, does it make sense? Notreally, but my kids are like,
yes, we're gonna be lumberjackstoday. I'm gonna cut down the
biggest tree. And that wasenough to get them comfortable
with putting the broccoli intheir mouth, and now they enjoy
the flavor. So I think we talkabout different tactics and how
to do this in our book a lot,but just like making it more
(27:14):
approachable, because withanything, we just need to, we
just need to make it fun for ourkids. And then they're like,
Yeah, I'm into it. That'sso true. I remember with
carrots, we would pretend to berabbits, and we'd have silly
voices. We'd make it funny, we'dmake it silly, and then all of a
sudden, we're having a greattime eating vegetables.
Yeah, and you're having a goodtime, you're not stressed about
it, and you never had to, like,say you have to eat this or you
(27:36):
can't get up. You know what Imean? Like, that kind of makes
us feel bad if we had to saythat. So it just reframes it for
us too.
Now, what about kids that don'teat that much? That is something
that is so stressful forparents, they can hone in on the
fact that their kid didn't eatthat much at a meal, and I just
know that it for so many parentsthat's really hard for them to
finish a meal and know thattheir kid did not eat that much
(27:58):
quantity. What's your advice inthat situation?
Yeah, this is a this is a goodquestion that I feel like has a
lot of layers. I think there isa widespread we as parents feel
like our kids need a much largervolume than they actually do. So
I think that would be like myfirst point is, if we have
really encouraged intuitiveeating from the get go,
(28:21):
encouraged our child to stopeating and eat when they're
full. We we can learn to trustthem in some instances. Well,
when it comes to feeding, sorry,I said that wrong. But if
they're coming to the table andwe've given them safe foods, we
know that we've given them somefoods that they enjoy and they
like, and they've eaten to theirfull, and it's not the portion
size we wanted them to consume.
We just need to check and makesure, like, is that actually the
(28:43):
right portion size for them, oris it the portion size that I
want them to eat? You know whatI mean. So after 12 months of
age, growth rate, like, reallydecreases in the first year of
life. We're, like, expectingkids to, like, triple in birth
weight, right? And so they mightactually more in that first year
of life when it comes to solidfoods, and then once they hit
toddlerhood, their appetitesslow down, because we don't want
(29:04):
them to triple their weightthree times in a year, every
year. So I feel like that's abig thing. I talk to clients a
lot about, like, just ourexpectations on what the
appropriate volume is. But I doknow there are many kids that do
struggle with severe, pickyeating or sensory issues or
feeding issues, and they're noteating what they need. And if
you feel like that is a problem,that you're go, that you're
(29:28):
walking with through, throughwith your kid, then we always
recommend like just seeking outadditional support. It might be
totally normal. They might beeating exactly what they need
for their body, but if you'reconcerned, seek out support from
a dietitian or a feedingtherapist or your pediatrician
just to make sure that thingsare on the right track,
perfect. And I and I agree, it'swhen you think about it, I love
(29:50):
that you pointed out thetripling the birth weight,
because if you think about itquantitatively, so if, let's
say, an average baby is bornaround seven pounds, they
usually double their weight by.
Four months, they're 14 pounds,and then, and then around a
year, they're tripled, andthey're over 20 pounds. That's a
big increase. And thenoftentimes, when I see kids jump
from year one to year two, maybethey'll just gain three, four
(30:11):
pounds. So you're right that thethe rate of weight increase
significant, significantlydeclines, and that can throw
parents off from what they'rewhat they are used to seeing the
first year. And I have a lot ofparents, they'll say, oh my
goodness, my one year old isonly four pounds away from my
three year old. That can't benormal. My three year old must
be not eating enough. But it'sactually typical. Yeah,
(30:35):
no, I completely agree. And Ithink when they hit that 12
month mark, and we're startingto notice less volume is when
parents get really worriedbecause they don't understand
the growth rate changes. Andthat's when they're like, Okay,
we're going to give themwhatever they will eat. So
they're going to give them allthe same foods over and over
again, because they're worriedabout their child meeting their
(30:56):
nutritional needs and notgaining enough weight. And so
then we or not getting enoughyeah, not gaining enough weight.
And so then we run into the factthat they're so worried about
giving them what they need thatwe've stopped giving variety.
And then we have to kind of goback and, like, help create a
diverse diet again, once ourkids are a little bit more
independent and a little bitless adventurous, the
(31:17):
other thing that I find that isnormal, so I want to point this
out to parents, because I thinkit can add stress, but it's very
common for kids to eat a greatmeal and then the next two,
three meals not be so great. AndI think a lot of US adults, we
are accustomed to having hungerfor breakfast, lunch, dinner,
and kids, I find are much moreattuned to eating when they're
really hungry. Do you find thatas well? Yes,
(31:40):
and I think there's actually,I think there's some data about,
like, looking at a child's fiveto six day window of eats is
more accurate on like, how wellthey're doing with meeting their
body needs, versus like, lookinglike at one meal or one day. So
we may notice that one day, ourkid just doesn't eat a ton, and
the next day they eat everythingin sight. And it just fluctuates
(32:01):
so much.
I love that. I think lookingback at a five, six day window
just feels so much lessstressful. So going back to my
initial goal of trying to makemealtime and feeding kids less
stressful, if you hone in onevery meal and hoping that they
eat what we're expecting, we'rejust going to set ourselves up
for more disappointment, morestress. So that's a that's a
(32:23):
great piece of advice. I reallylike that. Now another, another
common concern I get fromparents, they wonder about
convenient foods. So there's alot out there about having snack
foods and pouches. Do you haveany feelings about whether that
is not advisable, or advisable,or somewhere in the middle, tell
me your thoughts on convenientsnack foods.
(32:43):
I think for most families, it'snearly impossible to go without
any convenience or packagedsnacks. I think with working
moms, myself included, like it'sreally nice to have some trusted
packaged foods on hands that youknow, like they're low and added
sugar, they have nutrients thatour kids needs, like they're
fortified with iron or calcium,and so I definitely think that
there's a place for packagedsnacks. I do feel like there's
(33:08):
an we rely on them too much. Ido think that, you know, our
kids are going to eat thepackaged snacks probably more
willingly than they would like abanana or a cucumber or
something, because the packagedsnack looks the same every
single time they get it. Thereis the same thing in it. It's
comfortable, it's predictable.
Versus a cucumber is going tolook different depending on
which one you buy. A banana isgoing to look different. So I do
(33:29):
think there is an over relianceon packaged snacks. I definitely
feel that they can help fill agap. But I do push for can we
get most of their nutritionalneeds met from whole foods when
possible. That'sgreat. I think that's such
practical, real, helpful advice,because a lot of new parents can
put a lot of pressure onthemselves to make their meals
(33:49):
from scratch, to have it homecooked, and that's just not
real. That's not that's just notrealistic.
So yeah, giving yourself graceto use convenient options when
you need it to fill your own cupand then refocus on another meal
that's going to be like, whatyou expect is like a nutritious
diet, I think is really key. Imean, like, we, you know, we can
(34:13):
use, like, a can of tomatoes tomake a homemade pasta sauce
that's still considered apackage convenient, convenient
food. But I'm not going to usecanned tomatoes just because I'm
going to need to grow them frommy grow them from my garden. Do
you know what I mean? Like, Ithink there's a place for them,
for sure.
Yes. And also I I rememberfeeling very defeated when I
tried really hard to make foodfrom scratch. I'm not someone
(34:33):
that looks that enjoys cooking,to be honest. And so I remember
making really great homemadesoups that were really healthy.
And then when my kids didn'twant them, it just felt very
stressful. So, you know, I thinkthe reality is just going for
those Whole Foods, however,however you can get them in your
kids, and then looking for abalanced approach, to me, feels
like a good way to think aboutfeeding your kids. Yeah,
(34:55):
and I do want to point out thatI feel like brands are stepping
up to provide. Provide morenutritious snack options for
kids. And I don't feel like wehad this 10 years ago, so I'm
thankful for the brands that aredoing a good job of giving us
packaged snacks that are alsohelpful in meeting nutritional
needs, like less dyes, lessadded sugars, lower in sodium,
(35:15):
more natural ingredients there.
You know, there's tons of barsnow that are just like literally
made out of dates and groundnuts and stuff. You know me like
things that you could make athome. Yeah, you could do it, but
you're not always going to havetime to so I do think that we do
have better options now.
Fantastic.
That's great to hear now, aswe conclude, if you could give
parents one final takeawaymessage that you'd like them to
(35:37):
get from your book, one keymessage, what would it be?
You can stop googling. It'sstarting solids and feeding your
kids doesn't have to bestressful if you're equipped
with evidence based guidelinesand feel confident. And so I
think this, this book is to helpparents just be able to take a
deep breath, have theinformation at hand, go through
(35:58):
whatever chapter they need to atthe moment, have their lists and
their recommendations and knowthat this is Bapt research.
I love it. I love it so much I'mstill going to think of a new
we'll say under one, just forfun, I'm trying to think of a
new another one. I probablyshould have already come up with
a new one at this point. If I'mgoing to say, don't use it, I
need to come up with a new one,right? I'll think about it
though. I'll let you know.
(36:21):
How aboutif you're going to eat food,
have it put you in a good mood?
How's that? That's great. Well,to be continued, we'll keep
working on it. I'll get back toyou, or get back to me. If you
think of anything, I will. Thankyou so much. I'm really excited
for you. If anyone's looking fora fantastic resource to give
confidence, to give goodevidence based advice on how to
(36:43):
start feeding, how to raisehappy, healthy eaters in a way
that's not too stressful. Idefinitely recommend getting
baby leads the way andcongratulations. Thank you so
much for having me. I reallyappreciate it. Thank you for
listening, and I hope youenjoyed this week's episode of
your child is normal. Also, ifyou could take a moment and
leave a five star reviewwherever it is. You listen to
podcasts, I would greatlyappreciate it. It really makes a
(37:04):
difference to help this podcastgrow. You can also follow me on
Instagram at ask Dr Jessica. Seeyou next Monday. You.
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