November 20, 2025 • 69 mins
Dreading the holiday push as your creative well runs low?
In this episode, featuring recurring guest Arianna Smith, we explore the tricky balance of managing and riding our creative energy — and our obligations — while tending to our body's need for rest.
The episode starts with a little catching up — we chat about recent offerings and some of the new perspectives we're inhabiting around creativity and visibility. We also talk about devotion versus discipline, and how "internal consistency" can sustain our craft when external output wobbles.
Then we get into the coming holiday season and the tricky paradox of slowing down at time when we're called upon to travel, cook, spend money, clean, and decorate.
Which bring us to the Fours of the Tarot — Four of Pentacles, Four of Wands, Four of Swords, and Four of Cups — and how we understand these archetypes and the messages they offer around slowing down and restoring energy.
Arianna offers a quick Tarot pull to see which Four wants to speak to you, which you can follow with this three-card spread, if you want to go deeper:
+ What's blocking me from slowing down?
+ How can I connect with the Four that showed up for me?
+ What's a next good step to help me take it slow?
Finally, we explore cycle-aware planning that actually fits real life: seasonal shifts you can feel in the air, lunar timing for planting and illuminating, and hormonal rhythms that explain late-night bursts or sudden dips better than any productivity tip.
Come for the tarot, stay for the relief of a kinder rhythm, and leave with one small change you can make today. If this conversation helps you, subscribe, share this episode with a friend who’s running on fumes, and drop a review so we can keep making thoughtful episodes for you.
Check out Arianna's work and hop on her email list here!
This podcast is a production of Typewriter Tarot. Learn more & join us:
- Join the newsletter and receive the first 3 journaling prompts from Tarot for Creative Spirits (the workbook).
- Subscribe to Typewriter Tarot's Substack.
- Check out upcoming events & workshops.
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- Book a Tarot reading.
- Shop our bookshop.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:19):
Hello, creative spirits.
Welcome to another episode ofyour creative and magical life.
I'm your host, Cecily Saylor, awarrior for your creativity and
your magic, a tarot reader, awitchy Capricorn in Austin,
Texas, who spends a lot of timetalking to her dogs.
(00:43):
Before I get into the episode, Iwant to give you a little update
on what's coming up, how thingsare going, little tiny bit of
behind-the-scenes stuff toaddress the fact that episodes
are coming out slowly, about onea month, not my desired pace.
(01:04):
But I have that problem as acreator and business owner where
I get excited about creating newthings and having new channels.
And so there's just a lot ofdifferent pieces to my creative
project, my creative enterprise,to typewriter tarot.
And I am just one witch, youknow, magic will only take me so
(01:28):
far.
Magic will not yet edit mypodcast episodes for me.
So I've started editing themmyself, partly out of cash flow
consideration for a littlewhile.
And you've met my editor in thestar episode, Chantal, who's
(01:49):
amazing.
So much love for Chantal.
And I hope to bring Chantal backfor more of her beautiful
services.
You still will hear her music inthese episodes because now I've
figured out how to put it inmyself.
And I've gotten a platformcalled Descript where I can edit
the episodes by looking at thetranscript, and I can trim the
(02:12):
transcript and it will edit theaudio for me, which makes it so
much more possible for me tomake a better episode for you.
But it is still time consuming.
And so there was this lag whereno work was really happening on
the podcast, even though I'dbeen recording a few more
(02:33):
interviews.
So now I have a nice littlestash of episodes that I want to
bring you, but they need to gothrough the process.
So I'm super glad, I'm superrelieved, I'm super excited to
bring you this episode, whichwas recorded about a month ago.
Ariana Smith is back on theshow.
(02:53):
And in this episode, we get intowe kind of warm up and talk
about creativity and some of thethings that we've been
developing.
And then we get into holidaytime energy and the way that
feels like a nice portal forrest and relaxation, but often
(03:17):
becomes another set of reasonsor impulses to actually stay
busy and keep doing a lot.
So we're gonna talk about thattension.
We talk about what it can looklike to rest, different forms of
rest.
We look at the four fours in thetarot: the four of pentacles,
(03:40):
the four of wands, the four ofcups, the four of swords.
And we talk about how you canwork with these cards to
understand what kind of restmight be helpful to you or help
you imagine what that rest canlook like.
And I think it's a reallyhelpful episode as we move into
(04:02):
Thanksgiving here in the UnitedStates and then into the winter
holidays, which come quickly onthe heels of Thanksgiving.
So we didn't present it superclearly in the episode, so I
edited it out.
There's a very simple tarotspread in here for you to try
(04:23):
using the fours.
And then in the show notes, Iwill put some other questions
you can use if you want to do alonger spread to reflect on what
rest can look like for you rightnow.
So look for that if you want totry it.
And the stuff about the fourscomes a little bit later.
(04:43):
So I hope you'll stay throughthe episode, enjoy the
conversation.
And then, in terms of what'scoming up next, Ariana and I
recorded an episode onartificial intelligence.
I'm gonna get that one to younext.
I'm just gonna put theseepisodes with me and Ariana
together in this little block, Ithink.
(05:04):
And then I've also got abeautiful interview for you with
an IFS therapist, an internalfamily systems therapist.
We talk about parts work, wetalk about working with our
parts.
This therapist does a littlereading with me using a deck
that focuses on internal partsof the self.
(05:27):
It's very, very nourishing, verysupportive, um, very
interesting.
I've also got an interview withthe guys from Austin Seance,
which obviously I wanted to getto you on Halloween.
Ha ha ha ha.
Like, oops.
Um, even funnier, I wanted toget you a series of interviews
(05:49):
for the whole month of Octoberaround the paranormal, the
supernatural, high strangeness,all of my favorite things.
But that didn't happen.
And then we're also gonna finishout our journey through the
major arcana.
We've still got to do the moon,the sun.
Those are recorded.
(06:09):
The judgment episode isscheduled, and then we'll finish
with the world, hopefully in2026.
And yeah, then we'll keep movingfrom there.
I want to get you more soloepisodes that are shorter, that
are more focused.
I've got some reflections onthis year that I want to share
with you.
So, you know, we will see whatmy body can do, what my calendar
(06:34):
will allow for, but the desireis certainly there.
And I just appreciate yourpatience.
If you're tuning into the showand enjoying the show and
appreciating it, I appreciateyou.
Last thing I'll say actually isthat as Ari and I are working
together and kind of figuringout this collaboration, it's
(06:55):
getting more structure aroundit.
We're creating outlines, we'resetting some more time limits on
our episodes, we're pre-planninga little bit more.
So they're gonna get a littletighter.
They're gonna get, you know,they're just gonna keep getting
better.
And hopefully they'll keeparriving at a good pace so that
you can enjoy them.
(07:16):
All right, here's this latestone with more to come.
Enjoy.
Ari Smith is back.
Ariana Smith, the therapist, thecopywriter, the tarot reader,
(07:39):
the witch.
Ari, welcome back.
Good to be with you.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
That was an excellentintroduction.
Okay, good.
I am yes, I am a witch.
Ari, how how have you been?
What's new for you?
I think since the last time Isaw you, we were both traveling
and we might have both beengoing to a similar place.
So I went to New York City withmy partner.
(08:06):
I tagged along for work,although she corrected me.
We were staying in Jersey City,but we went into New York City
for other things.
So New Yorkers will understandthat distinction.
And then such a juxtapositionwent to rural North Carolina to
meet my partner's aunt and uncleand just chill and relax.
(08:30):
And it was such a juxtapositionbecause being in New York City
and being anonymous, being theleast interesting person in the
vicinity, it was so nourishingfor me on so many levels.
And then since then, I mean, Ican talk about all the things
(08:51):
swirling in my business.
Do you want to hear?
I just hosted a workshop abouthuman design and sustainable
business.
I've been kind of obsessed withhuman design since I got a
reading in 2022.
If y'all are listening andyou're in Colorado or Denver, I
I host therapist chill outgatherings.
(09:11):
And so we have a book clublater, and then we also have a
tarot and chill gathering.
So I'm going to get to gatherwith my local witches.
And I also was invited to do agroup tarot reading for a local
group therapy practice, which Iam so excited about.
And maybe we can talk aboutgroup events today.
But what I was up until 2 a.m.
(09:33):
last night working on was mypitch party, which is basically
a part co-working, part workshopfor therapists, healers,
heart-centered entrepreneursthat want to be more visible
next year.
They want to be featured onpodcasts, publications,
channels, and they don't knowwhat the fuck they're doing.
(09:55):
Or they want to refine theirapproach.
So I was up late last night.
And in doing that, I actuallywas looking back at the email I
initially sent you to initiallybe on your podcast.
Yes.
Because I think that is one ofthe reasons I was like, let's do
pitch party, because it's somany doors open when you just
(10:15):
put yourself out there and youjust let your work be seen.
And I alluded to this earlier,but you were one of the very
first podcasts that I talkedopenly about tarot, that I was
like, I am on this podcast as awitchy person first, not as a
therapist or a copywriter whohappens to be a little witchy.
And I just want to thank you andjust like offer gratitude
(10:37):
because you saying yes to thatjust like opened the door to so
many things.
And I want to offer that magicto other people who are like, I
don't know what I'm doing.
And so probably by the time thiscomes out, the party will have
passed, but they'll probablystill be, I'm making like a
whole pitch kit for people.
So I'm looking at all my pastpitches that got accepted and
(10:59):
deconstructing them.
I'm doing templates andtrackers.
So if this comes out afterNovember 5th, still take a look
at it and see if there'ssomething else that you can get
from it or when I'm running itagain.
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
Amazing.
Yes.
Pitch Party sounds really cool.
All of your offerings latelyhave, you know, I've only known
you since you pitched.
So um I haven't seen yourofferings for like years and
years, but since we've gotten toknow each other, you've been
coming out lately with somereally cool stuff.
(11:30):
And they're different, they kindof like span, you know, some
different things.
And I think it's really cool howyou are holding these different
angles of your work.
I think a lot of people getreally twisted up about like,
well, I'm this, but I'm alsothis.
And like, should I have awebsite for each one?
And like, how do I brand thesedifferent things?
(11:51):
And I think it looks reallynatural the way you're just
weaving things together.
Like, you do have a therapistaudience, and then copywriting
can be for like anyone who's gota business, and then tarot is
for everybody who cares aboutit.
So um, yeah, you're just a greatexample of how we can be many
(12:12):
things and still offer from thatplace of self-knowing.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
So yay.
SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
Thank you.
I appreciate that reflection.
I do have to have a separatewebsite for my therapy practice,
just Licenger.
Otherwise, I would have it alltogether.
SPEAKER_00 (12:30):
There's reasons to do either one, and I don't think
one's better than another, butat least in your email list,
sometimes it feels like anorganic.
Maybe you have two email lists.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
Do you?
I well, okay.
I mean, I used to because I waslike, we might have talked about
this.
I was really hiding my witchyside, and I was like, I don't
know if people want to see this.
But since honestly, being onthis podcast, I was like, why
does this have to be separate?
And so I've really been shiftingmy newsletter to not necessarily
(13:04):
be strictly witchy, but not belike, yeah, I'm gonna talk about
writing with the moon phases,and I'm gonna talk about human
design, and I'm gonna mentiontarot spreads that can help you
with your business.
And that's not gonna be thefocal point because that's not
all that I am.
Cool.
Yeah, thank you.
What are you up to?
SPEAKER_00 (13:23):
I am delivering the final parts of my creative
channel offer, which is asix-week guided journey to help
you clear the creative channel,connect with the creatrix as an
energy, imagine and feel thecreative channel within you.
(13:47):
And it's going reallybeautifully.
People are having some nicebreakthroughs and coming to a
different relationship withcreativity that is less polluted
with the crap of capitalism, thefears, the the anxieties.
(14:08):
I mean, some of that is stillthere.
It's an ongoing struggle for allof us, but we get to go beneath
that and see that we have thisrelationship with creativity
that is sacred, spiritual, andwe get to reclaim that.
So that's going reallybeautifully.
And right now I'm developingsomething called creative
(14:31):
enterprise.
I'm starting to see how creativechannel is the inner work of
resetting that relationship withcreativity.
And then as people are coming tothe end of it, they're getting
some big downloads and clarityaround what they want to create.
People are like, I'm starting towrite my website, or I realize I
(14:56):
might want to take a pilgrimageas a road trip around the
country to get to know mymatrilineal line and maybe write
about it and share about it.
And I'm like, oh my God, that'samazing.
So then creative enterprise isgoing to be more focused on the
external side of the creativeendeavor.
(15:16):
I think creativity wants to havethis sacred private relationship
with each of us, but it alsowants to go out and be in the
world and to be received and tobuild bridges between people.
And so the creative enterprise,there's gonna be a workshop.
It will also have happened bythe time this comes out.
(15:38):
I'm gonna do another like longercourse, but I'm doing a one-off
workshop to explore that all thestuff that comes up around
visibility, rejection, makingmoney or not making money,
platforms, technology.
I mean, we can't cover everylittle thing, but we're gonna
start that process of movingpeople out of the place of I've
(16:01):
had this idea for a long timeand I'm just sitting on it to
okay, I'm gonna do the thing.
I'm gonna do it little bit by alittle bit.
It makes me sad when people arelike, Yeah, I have this idea,
but I'm gonna wait until my kidsgraduate or this or that
happens.
And I'm like, no, the best timeto start is today.
Maybe that's not true.
Timing is its own thing, but itsaddens me sometimes to see
(16:26):
people waiting years to dosomething that they already feel
called to do.
So a lot of my creative energyhas been going toward creating
those things and communicatingand understanding what I'm
offering.
I got to go to a farm in upstateNew York around the time that
you were in New York, and it wasa communal living situation and
(16:49):
just an extremely beautifulplace.
So that was super interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
I yeah, just have to interject.
I remember reading thatnewsletter and I love it, and I
love your newsletter so much.
I love that it just feels likeyou're writing to I know you're
writing to your people, but itjust feels like you're writing
to me.
And you're like, let me tell youabout this farm.
And I remember that.
So that seemed like a reallyawesome experience.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Yeah, it was great.
It's called the Farm at World'sEnd, and they offer these
self-guided residencies.
So you basically pay for yourroom, you bring some groceries,
and you get to wander around.
You can help on the farm, youcan sit in the barn and write or
make stuff, or there were therewas a couple that was working
(17:41):
with wool, they had Icelandicsheep, and so they had gathered
wool and they were cleaning itand then doing whatever you do
to turn it into thread.
And one of them had knitted 40sweaters already, like really
good sweaters, and I was justblown away.
SPEAKER_01 (17:58):
So people just come, they just come there, and do you
have to pay to be there, or youjust have to come and like
contribute?
SPEAKER_00 (18:05):
You do have to pay to be there.
It was very reasonable, and Ithink the rates will probably
remain reasonable through theyear.
I know the farm is needing toraise money, so if y'all need a
getaway, I would go to theirwebsite and you just fill out a
little Google form and then payyour money.
And then yeah, you have a roomfor a week.
(18:28):
And my room was in the mainstructure attached to the big
old barn.
And I had a room overlooking thelittle pond, and then there's
cabins around the property thatdon't have electricity, but they
have a wood-burning stove,they're really cute, it's really
marvelous.
I can see why you like it.
That's very Alaska vibes.
(18:49):
I want to ask you if you everwant to take a guest, I'm up for
it.
I'm just gonna invite myself.
Just gonna invite myself.
SPEAKER_01 (19:00):
I feel like also you and my mom have this kind of
unconscious connection happeningbecause last episode you were
like, wait, Wasilla.
And then my mom had bought yourworkbook.
SPEAKER_02 (19:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (19:12):
She was like, Oh yeah, that's just my mom.
She's like, Oh yeah, I justchecked out the podcast and I
saw the workbook and I justthought I'd check it out.
And so then since then, you sentme your workbook.
And then the last time I talkedto my mom on the phone, you
know, we like send photos ofeach other where we're at in the
workbook.
And of course, I'm hopping allover, I'm coloring with my felt
(19:34):
pens, I'm journaling.
But my mom, who is a retired artteacher, is actually using
watercolors to move throughhers.
And I was like, Can you send mesome photos?
So you'll see that in mynewsletter that goes out next
week.
And I asked her to send me aselfie, my wonderful late 60s
mother, like, send me a selfie,mom.
And of course, it's thisbeautifully framed photo of the
(19:58):
workbook and stuff.
And then she also said, when yousent the workbook, you sent her
a postcard from Texas, which yousent one for me too.
I don't want to give spoilers,but she was like, I need to send
her something back, you know?
I just need to send her.
Yeah.
So I feel like there is somekind of energy happening there
for you.
And because my mom's an artteacher, she's big into
(20:19):
creativity.
Oh, I was gonna say somethingelse around this.
This is kind of a tangent, butnot really.
I wanted to reflect earlier whatyou said around the creative
channel and the creativeenterprise.
I feel like we just shifted toAlaska.
Um, but I really wanted to speakto that piece because it's like
maybe there's like some kind ofcollective energy happening
(20:40):
because we're both sitting withlike, okay, how do you get your
work out in the world when it issuch a vulnerable, sacred,
personal thing?
And I don't know if this is thecase for you, and maybe you
cover this a little bit increative enterprise, is it's
like our creative work is sopersonal, right?
(21:01):
But then we're putting it outthere for people to commodify,
to reject, to um conflate, andhow do we do that dance?
And then we also wanted to likemake money from it, you know,
it's such a weird way.
I'm sure you have thoughtsaround this, but I did have to
(21:23):
notice that thread where we'reboth like, okay, how do you get
your thing out there?
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And for all the reasons youdescribed, I am taking the
position that taking your workout there in some way, whether
it's micro or bigger, is aspiritual journey.
It's a spiritual path that youcan choose to walk for your own
(21:50):
self-development and growth,because it will force you to
confront everything that you'retalking about, the fear, the
visibility stuff, thesequestions of having this sacred
gift, this sacred energy thatyou're channeling, interfacing
(22:11):
with the material world that hasa lot of limitations and a lot
of unfortunate obstacles that wewill encounter.
And so choosing to try andnavigate that is deeply
rewarding because you will findpeople you've never met before.
(22:31):
You'll find people who are verykindred to you, who are thinking
about the same things, who careabout the same things, who are
doing their own things that arereally interesting.
And yes, there will be rejectionor people won't get it, or
whatever.
But if we can choose to focus onhow we handle that and also the
gifts that come back that arenot just money or not just
(22:55):
recognition, then there issomething incredibly just
profoundly rewarding in that ismy argument.
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
That was a beautiful soundbite.
I just want to soak that in.
Getting your work out there is aspiritual path.
It's not just a professionalpath, it's not just a creative
path, it's a spiritual path.
SPEAKER_02 (23:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
And it's not for the faint of heart, but I get the
sense that, and this is probablythe people that you work with is
you reach this point whereyou're like, I can't not do it
anymore.
I can't hide it anymore.
This is just so uncomfortable.
And so it's like you have tomake a choice of like, what am I
(23:43):
gonna take to sleep?
Am I gonna lean into the foolenergy, right?
And just trust I have everythingthat I need.
And I think also what's feelingso alive for me as you share is
like it is a spiritual path,it's an individual path, and it
sounds like there's a place fordoing it with other people.
Do you see any?
(24:04):
I don't want to say pros andcons because that really
simplifies it, but what do yousee for people that are doing
the path alone and for thosethat are doing it with other
people, with like-minded folks?
Even just a creative partner.
SPEAKER_00 (24:19):
Yeah, a couple things I want to say really
quickly.
First, a spiritual path, I thinkit's also like a vision quest,
which sounds really cool.
Because you have this visionyou're seeking, you're looking
for, you're trying to bring intothe world and you're questing
out to do that.
(24:39):
And in terms of that breakingpoint where it's I can't keep
holding it back, I just want tonote that the amount of energy
it takes to hold the desire andhold the idea or the vision or
the call and to continually putit aside and suppress it and
(25:03):
delay it, that's a lot of energyyou have to use to keep it at
arm's length.
And you can start using thatenergy to actually make it
instead of keeping it in a box.
And then in terms of doing itwith other people, yeah, I just
think anything we do with otherpeople, you know, if they are
(25:27):
aligned people more or less, orpeople on the same kind of path,
then it becomes less lonely.
You get more ideas, you find outthat everyone else is struggling
with exactly the same thing.
You get other information aboutdifferent ways it can look and
different ways you can find yourpath through it.
(25:48):
You have people to laugh aboutit with, you have people to
complain about capitalism with,you have more jokes, more
laughter, more magic, and alsomore connections.
Because if the, you know, ifyour folks are aligned in some
way, they're gonna know otherpeople or they're gonna be part
(26:08):
of your audience too.
So that's another reason lately.
I feel like I've shifted alittle bit out of one-on-one
work and still doing it, but andoffering these group guided
journeys where it is a solojourney, like you're getting a
digital care package and you doyour own work with that, but
then we meet up once a week totalk about how it's going,
(26:31):
what's coming up?
And those conversations are justso refreshing and rewarding and
bring up so many other littlepitfalls we run into the way.
SPEAKER_01 (26:43):
So yes.
Do you think I'm like, sign meup?
Uh, do you think that there issome kind of I'm just marveling
at the the current that it feelslike we're both tapping into
because I was literally writingan email to kid you not, like an
hour ago, about how pitching ispersonal work and it opens you
(27:05):
up to deeper work.
And yes, it's for your business,but I was just really thinking
about you know what pitching hasdone for me.
And I've talked about this, likeit's made me grow, it's made me
nourish and care for parts ofmyself that I didn't think
needed attention.
(27:26):
It's helped me really getcomfortable with rejection and
realize I'm really not thatimportant.
And the balance of like, youneed your ideas to land with
folks, right?
But also they need to land withyou.
That's a big dance that we haveto take in capitalism.
What I think is exciting aboutwhat you shared is it feels like
(27:46):
even though we haven't seen eachother for a couple months, or
we're tapped into a reallysimilar current and we haven't
known each other for that long,but then here we are doing these
really similar but reallydifferent paths around how to do
it in our own way.
SPEAKER_00 (28:01):
This goes to the magic of the whole thing.
You sent me a great pitch, and Ihave a small podcast.
I was like, I'm getting pitched.
This is cool, and this personsounds interesting.
And I said yes, and then we havethis conversation, and then
we're having more conversations,which was not anticipated from
the outset.
SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
I think part of that has been because I've been
letting myself just be me andnot fit into a certain box.
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
I think all of this is relevant and feeds into what
we're about to talk about.
Oh, totally.
This notion of our creativecycles, how our energy moves
creatively.
I think that's another part ofwhat I'm focused on in creative
channel, is that we have littleinternalized capitalists within
(28:50):
us that want to be like,creativity, give me, give me the
juice, give me the goods, helpme get rich, help me get out of
my job, help me, whatever.
Like it's an extractive resourcethat just needs to show up for
us.
And no, creativity is an energy,it's a relationship, and it
sometimes it's flowingpowerfully.
(29:10):
I think of like the river,speaking of creative channel,
sometimes it's flooding,sometimes there's been a lot of
rain, and sometimes it's dry.
And that changes, it's alwaysfluctuating.
So, how do we listen to that,tune into that, tend to that,
and listen to our bodies?
And this was your beautifultopic idea.
(29:31):
So, I want to hear from youwhat's been going on or what
your experience has been latelyas you've been in this big
creative burst.
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
Oh my gosh.
Well, I want to give a nod toLindsay Mac because they talk
about the seasons of yourbusiness.
I've been thinking aboutcreativity and I have been tuned
into the lunar phases ofcreation and my menstrual cycle
and hormonal cycles and all ofthat.
And then I was learning.
From their course around theseasons of our business, and it
(30:05):
just got me thinking, we aren'tmachines, right?
It's hard because as acopywriter, I'm on retainer for
folks where I'm having to createconsistently.
There are times where I can justwrite and it just flows out and
all the ideas are there.
And then there are times whereI'm like, oh my gosh, I forget
how to spell things.
(30:26):
And at the same time, there isan expectation for you to be
creatively consistent.
So even if you aren't being paidfor your creative work, there's
still this expectation that youare consistent.
And um I think a lot aboutconsistency.
And you and I both email, wehave a weekly-ish newsletter,
(30:47):
and you know, the lore is to beconsistent with your email list,
to be consistent with posting,to be consistent with blogging.
And I don't know if we'redesigned to be consistent, and
also we need some level of touchpoints to build trust with
people, right?
So I think a lot about knowingwhat your creative cycle is,
(31:13):
what are the supports where youcan be creative, you can honor
your creative cycles, and alsostill pay your bills?
What is the mindset that youneed around this?
And how do you both nurture, I'mlike just throwing out all these
questions, how do you bothnurture your creative channel
and honor it, but also notextract from it too?
(31:34):
I only have questions, noanswers, successfully.
SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
Yeah, it raises so many questions.
And to the consistency piece,one thing we've been exploring
in Creative Channel is thisdistinction between discipline
(31:59):
and devotion.
And I think that a lot ofcreative people feel like they
need to get on this schedule orthis regimen where they create
for an hour three times a week,or every morning they need to
write five pages or a thousandwords or whatever.
(32:21):
And I think that can work forsome people, but I think when we
impose a routine on ourselves,when we become rigid in creating
that expectation of ourselves,it doesn't account for the
fluctuations of energy.
(32:41):
And discipline is just like notthat fun for anyone.
I mean, it is maybe an honorabletrait, or under capitalism, it
certainly is, under ourpuritanical origins.
But devotion, I think, issomething that gives us more
flexibility and it honors thefact that we are working with
(33:02):
something greater thanourselves, and that it is a gift
to get to be with that energyand use that energy and shape it
and collaborate with it.
And so if we think of it more asthis is a gift, this is a thing
I get to do because I am humanand I don't want the external
(33:22):
world to smash that for me.
I am devoted to maintaining itsaliveness and to deepening that
relationship by showing upregularly with a kind of
irregular consistency, let'ssay, yeah, that does honor my
capacity and my ability as aperson living under capitalism
(33:45):
with a lot of responsibilitiesand demands, but that also
honors what creativity isbringing to me.
And so recently, like I went tothe farm.
This is the dilemma in themodern world is like you're
gonna take a week away to go tofor me, this farm where my days
are open.
(34:05):
I don't have anything scheduled,I can move around how I want to.
But in order to get there, Ihave to pre-arrange a lot of
things and wrap a lot of thingsup so that I'm not working that
much when I'm there.
And then when I come back, Ihave to dive in and start up and
catch up.
And there's a lot of emails inmy box, and I gotta, you know.
(34:27):
So even when we take thesewindows on the other side of
that, I came back.
There was the normal catchingup.
My partner was traveling, soI've got to do all the dog
walking or I'm gonna do anycleaning that I want to do.
And then I had set up threeevents in a week of different
kinds.
And by the end of last week, Iwas like, put me in the ground.
(34:52):
I'm my bones were tired.
I went to massage chiropractorenergy witch, and I hadn't seen
her in a while.
It was so needed.
And sometimes she's channelingthings for me, and she's like,
Yeah, you don't have to runyourself into the ground to have
(35:12):
success.
And I my moon is in Capricorn,so the moon is the body.
Capricorn's extra discipline,and so my body will work, but my
body's getting older and morebrittle.
And so after that feeling ofbeing wrung out, it's like,
okay, I have to remember, youknow, when I have a creative
(35:36):
burst of energy, I will try toflow with that as much as I can.
But I know also for people withADHD who can get really
hyper-focused on something, andthis is something you mentioned,
and maybe you'll speak to it.
There's this like, okay, theenergy's flowing, so I'm in the
flow until it's gone.
And then you're up until two inthe morning, but you got to get
(35:57):
up at seven and you're not 21anymore.
And so one thing we talked aboutin Creative Channel with someone
who expressed that sameexperience was like, what about
going in with a timer?
Like having a ritual at thestart of your creative process
and a ritual to bring you out ofit.
So we're not just switchingbetween these two worlds.
(36:18):
But part of that ritual can beokay, it's 11 p.m.
I do need to go to bed at 12:30.
So here's my timer, and it'sgonna make a very pretty sound
when it goes off.
But those are just some thoughtsabout because the other thing is
like, yeah, we can learn aboutour creative cycle, but it's
(36:39):
also changing all the time.
It's not on like an automaticrepeating cycle.
SPEAKER_01 (36:44):
So yes, yes.
No, it's so funny.
I was like, girl, your Capricornmoon is showing, like just set a
timer and follow it.
Um, no, thanks.
Um, so I have a Gemini, I have aGemini moon.
I love this.
It's like your body.
So my exhaustion shows up a lotmore in my nervous system.
And I've managed chronic painfor several years, which is very
(37:07):
much a nervous system thing inmy case.
And so that's interesting ofthinking about your moon,
showing how the ways that youcan keep pushing.
And yeah, I can do a lot, butthen my nervous system is just
like, please stop, please stop,please stop.
And I think there's somethinghere around, and this has been
(37:31):
my dance, and by no means figurethis out.
You know, sometimes we haveparts of us that hold scarcity.
Oh, yeah, that are like, well,it's here, so I gotta get it out
while it's here, you know, andit won't come back.
And I think another thing that Iwanted to speak to that you
shared is there's an internalconsistency and an external
(37:52):
consistency.
And often we highlight more ofthe external.
Am I publishing my newsletterevery week?
Am I doing this?
But when I actually look at, andthis is not the case for
everyone, I'm pretty consistentat turning to my tarot deck
almost every day.
I'm pretty consistent to writingmorning pages, even if it's just
a couple lines.
(38:12):
And that's not things thatpeople see, but those I think
are more important than in thelong term than what we're doing
externally.
So I guess what we could offerfolks is first off, consistency
is so convoluted from acapitalistic perspective, right?
It implies that we're machines,that seasons don't happen, that
(38:36):
our output is the same duringthat time.
But I think we also can frame itlike, what do you want to be
internally consistent about andexternally consistent about?
Because the internal consistencyfeels more about the devotion
aspect, and then the externalconsistency feels more about the
discipline, however, that showsup for folks.
SPEAKER_00 (38:59):
I hadn't thought about that, that internal and
external devotion versusdiscipline.
So that's super helpful.
That gives me more to thinkabout.
And at the same time, it's areminder or just something I
want to emphasize that we alsotend to think that creative
(39:23):
consistency is just the externalpart.
And we don't count the yeah,conversations with tarot cards
or the morning pages where we'repurging the thoughts and
clearing the channel.
We don't count the walks in thewoods where we turn off the
(39:46):
podcast and just listen to thetrees, listen to the birds, or
periods where we're just stilland we're resting more and
allowing maybe a recent creativeburst to digest and integrate
before we go forward again.
SPEAKER_01 (40:08):
Well, what you're describing also is capitalism
doesn't see those things as partof the creative process.
Right.
And I have said this for years.
I'm like, my best writingdoesn't happen when I'm at my
laptop.
It happens out in the world.
(40:29):
I'm writing when I go out and Inotice, you know, what's been
alive for me is just noticingthe angle of the sunlight
changing as we go into fall.
And it's when I sit down to mylaptop that I'm capturing ideas
that I'm going it through.
And so I try to keep that inmind.
(40:49):
That's a little hack I've givenmyself because sometimes I'm
like, I'm only productive whenI'm at my laptop, but I'm like,
no, like your best things come,and best is even a qualifier
that I'm hesitant to use, butyour most alive things come when
you are actually not sitting atthe conveyor belt of production,
(41:09):
of creative production.
I wanted to offer also what hashelped me with my creative
cycles.
And we're gonna go into humandesign another time, but I am
working on a blog that what didI call it?
I'm gonna name it just to give ateaser.
Creative by design, honoring therhythms of your creativity with
(41:30):
human design and tarot.
Um yes.
And I'm talking about creativitybeing a pulse, not a product.
So that's been sitting with me.
I have that in big bold letterson my screen right now.
So we'll go into that anothertime, but I like tracking and
paying attention to my cycles.
(41:52):
And it started just withtracking lunar phases, and I
would just pay attention to whatwas happening during waxing,
waning, full, new, and how myenergy was during that time.
And then I compared that to whatwas happening in my hormonal
cycle, which I was alreadytracking because I have PMDD,
speaking of like inconsistent.
(42:13):
And so then I noticed that myhormones were actually more
connected to my creativity thanthe moon cycle and more
powerful.
There was still an overlapthere.
Wow.
And I know exactly why I was upuntil 2 a.m.
last night, and I won't be thisway in a couple weeks.
And I just know that I need lesssleep right now because of how
my hormonal cycle is.
So I think when we are honoringour creative cycles, there is
(42:36):
something about tracking andnoticing, but then also
accepting.
And then if you can, planning.
So it, you know, I can't alwaysdo this, but if I'm starting a
new copywriting project, I tryto do it around my internal
rhythms, but for external, likewith my clients, they do the
lunar cycle.
So if I'm because I'm like,that's collective energy that's
(42:56):
impacting the project.
And so I will try to schedule itaround a new moon and I'll know
that that person might be likepretty scattered.
And then if I'm scheduling likea feedback call, I might want to
do it more around the full moon.
So then it's illuminating thethings under the surface that
they may not be able to name,but it is important for their
(43:17):
work.
And then the same also with mytarot readings.
If you're planting a seed for anew idea, let's do it around a
new moon.
If you really want to illuminatesome deep shit, full moon, you
know.
And then I also try to payattention.
This is probably a very nerdything for me.
People probably don't think thismuch about it, but I also pay
(43:39):
attention to my seasonal cycles.
So during the winter, I can'thave a meeting before 10 a.m.
my time.
And I also don't want to leavethe house after five.
But then during the summer, I'mlike, yeah, the sun's up.
Let's do this.
So I think these are alltangible examples around how
(44:01):
even though we are workingwithin the confines of
capitalism, maybe there's justone cycle that folks can notice
and track and see what they canshift.
Um, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (44:15):
Yes, this is all super interesting the way that
you've made these distinctions,hormonally, lunar, internal,
external.
SPEAKER_01 (44:27):
Seasonal.
SPEAKER_00 (44:28):
Yeah, and I think like the seasonal one for me was
the first one that I reallylatched on to.
And shortly after getting intotarot, I came upon the wheel of
the year notion and these eightstations of the wheel of the
year organized around theequinoxes and the solstices with
(44:53):
halfway points in between.
And that was huge for me.
It was the first time I couldstart to think about time on a
different not the first time,but moving through time day to
day, month to month on a biggerscale in connection with nature,
(45:15):
which is something I've alwaysfelt uh uh drawn to, interested
in, devoted to.
And I think because you know,seasons are just they're
pronounced.
You feel them in the air, yousee them in nature, your clothes
change, the light changes.
So we have a lot of and they'reslower.
(45:36):
So there's more to notice, wehave more history to lean on,
and we have emotionalconnections to the different
seasons.
And so that's a great place tostart if you're doing this for
the first time, is to start withthe seasonal stuff and just
notice where is your energy.
SPEAKER_01 (45:54):
I love that invitation to just start first
with the seasons because it's soobvious, right?
The examples I gave are prettynuanced and also may not align
for folks.
They may not, you know, or theymay not have a consistent
hormonal cycle or anything likethat, but the seasons are
consistent.
We can deny our internalexperience, right?
(46:18):
But we it's hard to look out thewindow and it's 30 degrees
outside and it's snowing and notdeny that that's happening right
now.
I remember a big thing for mewas I would always fly back to
Alaska for the holidays.
And a big choice for me once Istarted listening to my seasonal
rhythms was actually not flyingback during the holidays.
(46:42):
I am gonna start doing that morenow that there's some shifts in
my family, but initially it wasjust so freeing to be just like,
no, like I don't want to fly inthe holidays, I don't want to go
up there in Christmas.
Why don't I go up there duringthe summer and the fall when
it's a little bit more aligned?
And so that was a really nicerhythm that I found with my
family of like, and this ismaybe something to think about
(47:05):
with the holidays, if there'sthese expectations of like we
spend the holidays together, wedo this, or we output this, it's
like, well, maybe we can do itat a season that actually makes
more sense for us, right?
And so we got into a differentrhythm around how we would visit
each other and how we wouldconnect.
And also, I think about foranyone who is a service
(47:27):
provider, in my case, atherapist, we're trying to slow
down, but often there's a lotcoming up for our clients around
the holidays.
There's grief, there's familydynamics, there's financial
layers to this.
And so even if you can listen toyour own rhythms, there is an
(47:48):
awareness of like, if you holdspace for others, that's going
to be impacting you.
So, what does that mean for you?
I also was thinking about, youknow, the opting out, if it
can't be external, it can beinternal.
So I think I'm maybe tappinginto a little bit of the eight
of swords energy of sometimes wefeel really stuck about what we
(48:11):
can opt out of.
And maybe you have kids, and soopting out of Christmas is not
an option, but is there aninternal opt-out that you can
do?
Is there an internal opt-out ofthis is gonna be my financial
limit, right?
Or we're only gonna do oneactivity this week, or we're not
gonna host, we're not gonna hostdinner, we're gonna do a brunch,
(48:34):
an easy brunch, a potlet brunch.
That's a little bit moreexternal, but even an internal
opt-out of I'm not gonna obsessover if it's the right gifts or
not.
Or I'm not going to shop onlineafter 9 p.m.
or whatever that is.
We kind of have this theme oflike internal, external, and I
think it also matches with howwe can engage with this pacing
(48:56):
too, because capitalism has usbelieve that we don't actually
get to listen and we can getinto this trance of capitalism
and productivity, and it takesso much.
I don't know how much how it isfor you, but it takes so much
energy to slow down.
It's like you think it would beeasy to just like stop what I'm
(49:20):
doing, and maybe this is justhow I'm designed, but I get
momentum around things and Ihave such a hard time slowing
down.
So hard.
And I can share though thistarot spread that we were
talking about too.
Should we segue to that?
Yes, let's do that.
Because this is we love tarot,right?
(49:43):
Um so before this podcast, I wasthinking of all the stuff that I
had to do, but also listening tomy body and my nervous system.
And it was like, it was verymuch telling me, like, if you
don't slow down, we're gonnahave a we're gonna go into a
deeper pain player.
And so I thought about whatcards connected to slowing down
for me, and the fours came up assome really gentle, lovely
(50:09):
anchors around that in differentways.
And so do you want to talk aboutthe fours or can I like invite
folks how to do this spread thatI did before this podcast?
SPEAKER_00 (50:20):
Yeah, let's introduce the fours.
SPEAKER_01 (50:23):
Okay, and how we connect them to slowing down.
Yes, okay, because I think it'sdifferent probably for me and
you, like our connection to thefours is different, but maybe
there's some similar.
So I I think the four of theswords is like the most obvious,
and I'm using the light seriestarot right now.
And the light series tarot forthe four of swords is literally
(50:44):
a a person cocooned in a nest.
And so I see four of swords as acall for rest, a call for laying
horizontal, literally, but alsolike a mental break too, a
mental slowdown.
Like, can you put down theswords?
Like, how do you connect to thefour of swords?
SPEAKER_00 (51:05):
Yes, I cosign all of that.
I will add that the four ofswords follows the three of
swords, and then the two ofswords as well.
And actually, interestingly, Ithink starting tomorrow, we are
(51:27):
in the period of time that thefour of swords governs it's
third piece of Libra season.
So it's got like a 10-dayperiod.
So we're like at the end ofthree of swords time right now.
And studying with ChristopherMarmalejo has revealed this
(51:48):
other arc in that progressionwhere two of swords is this
withholding.
We could compare it to I have acreative vision and I'm not
doing anything about it.
Like that holding, I'm gonna I'mgonna pretend I'm blind to it.
I'm gonna pretend it's notthere.
I'm gonna keep doing what I'mdoing, I'm fine.
And then three of swords is aSaturn card, and it's like, no,
(52:14):
we can't hide it forever.
The honest thing has to comeout, which will create some kind
of breakage, maybe some kind ofpain or grief.
Maybe it's like, oh, I wish I'dstarted this three years ago and
I'm sad about that.
Or in a relationship, it's like,here's how I really feel, and
I've been afraid to tell youthat.
(52:34):
And here's some of my painaround being honest, and here's
some of your pain about hearingsomething that is hard to say.
And then the Four of Swords islike, okay, that was a lot of
psychological labor to call outthe thing and say the thing and
(52:54):
share the thing.
And now we, yeah, like you said,we need this cocoon, we need a
place of stillness, we need alittle sanctuary for ourselves
to just be in solitude.
And I think solitude is anincredibly powerful form of
rest.
Some people find it uh uneasyand uncomfortable.
(53:18):
And if that's you, I thinkthat's a great place to explore
because we are the person wespend the most time with in
life.
And the more we can befriendourselves and find joy in being
with ourselves, then we candistance ourselves from a lot of
these distractions or otherpeople's needs and desires.
SPEAKER_01 (53:39):
I see Four of Swords as you know, some people might
see that nest and be like, Oh,you're just like sitting and
meditating.
Sometimes for me, my favoriteFour of Swords is the zoning out
to a really good TV show that Ilike.
Just giving my brain somethingelse to focus on, some kind of
mental break that maybe isstillness.
(54:00):
I do need those times, butsometimes I need just like
distraction.
I just need to be hooked into astoryline.
So I did want to offer that forfolks with busy the busy brains
club.
With the Four of Pentacles, Ithink it has these traditional
connotations around yourfinances and your security.
(54:21):
When I think about the Four ofPentacles as a way to slow down,
I do think a lot about the body.
I do think a lot about scarcityand like, do I think I don't
have what I need or do I trulynot have what I need?
And I think of the Four ofPentacles as like a chair,
thinking about all four legs onthe ground.
Do you have all the things thatyou need?
(54:42):
I remember my therapist gave methis really great analogy years
and years ago around like, youknow, our life is like a chair.
And if one leg is wobbly, we cando okay.
But if two are off, then we'rehaving a really hard time.
And so if we want to look atfour of pentacles practically,
if this is a card that youconnect with for slowing down,
(55:04):
it's like, what are the legs ofyour chair and how are they each
doing?
And maybe there can be anacceptance if you got a wobbly
one, if you have both off, ormaybe you don't have to fully
fix that wobbly leg, we can justget it a little bit more stable.
What I mean by that tangibly isfor some people, the four legs
are our family, our health, ourrelationship, and our work.
(55:26):
And so maybe things in ourrelationship feel a little bit
wobbly, and that's okay.
We just have to accept thatthat's the season of our
relationship, or maybe ourcareer feels a little bit wobbly
because we're like, oh my gosh,AI is taking over.
I'm gonna take my job.
And you're like, okay, I can'treally change that, but maybe I
need to skill up a little bit.
Maybe I could feel a little bitless wobbly around that.
(55:47):
Once again, that's implyingdoing more, but another option.
How do you connect?
I love your the way you describethe two, three, four of the
things and the progressionthere.
SPEAKER_00 (55:57):
Yeah, I love everything you're saying about
the Four of Pentacles.
I think in my workbook, there'san exercise for the four pillars
where you look at what they are,and I think you draw them, which
I remember having fun doing.
And yeah, a card of like shoringup, stabilizing in that card as
(56:20):
well.
In the writer weight, the SmithWait deck, there the figure is
separated from the village, thecity that's behind them, and
they've got the four coinsarranged around their body.
So yeah, how am I resourced?
How am I held up?
Sometimes it is money.
(56:41):
Do I need to like pull back andfocus on paying off some debt?
Will that give me more security?
Or just a time to check inwhat's supporting me?
Are my thoughts or feelingsabout that support true if I
really look at the facts?
SPEAKER_01 (57:02):
Yeah, maybe the four of pentacles is also an
invitation to slow downspending.
You know, it could be as simpleas why am I spending this money
on this?
Is it compulsive?
Is it feeling like I have to, ordo I want to?
Should we talk about the four ofwands?
I actually really lovedconnecting four of wands and
four of cups to slowing downbecause I feel like the four of
(57:24):
swords and four of pentacles,it's like those are kind of
clear slowdown interpretations,but the four of wands and four
of cups aren't always as clearto folks.
And so I have some thoughts onthat.
So before before we got in thepodcast, I pulled all the fours
out of the deck and shuffledthem.
And I was like, okay, which fourdo I really need to anchor into
(57:45):
right now that I need to connectwith?
And the four of wands reverseshowed up for me.
And what I connect to the fourof wands for slowing down is
like stop and smell the roseskind of thing.
Are you getting so focused ondoing and completing and
finishing that you're notactually pausing to look around
(58:09):
you and see what you cancelebrate and see who you can
connect with?
And so when I received this inreverse, I was like, oh, are you
really not connecting with whatyou do get to celebrate right
now and what you do get to leaninto and feel secure about?
So that was my thought.
If folks get the four of wandsas their slow down card, it
(58:31):
could even also be likeliterally slow down and make
plans with someone.
I also see the four of wands asan invitation to celebrate a
milestone that isn't oftencelebrated.
What milestones are you notcelebrating in your life or
business?
How do you connect to the fourof wands and slowing down?
SPEAKER_00 (58:51):
Again, I agree with all of that.
And would just add or emphasize,I suppose, that the celebration
piece is incredibly powerful inthe creative cycle.
Like you said, we're alwayslike, do the thing, finish the
(59:11):
thing.
Okay, people didn't hate thething.
Great, on to the next thing.
Go, go, you know, and there's nopause for what did I make?
Yeah, how did it go?
I worked really hard.
Let's celebrate that ithappened, that I did it, that we
did it, or whatever the case.
(59:32):
And I I like that word milestonewith the card.
I do think celebration is arestorative element.
I think it also honorscreativity because it takes us a
little bit out of thatextractive cycle of just keep
giving me, keep providing.
It's like, let me pause andappreciate.
(59:52):
And when creativity feelsappreciated, it's like, okay, we
love working together.
Let's keep going because I see.
That you appreciate me and youappreciate what we're doing
together.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:04):
Yes.
Yes.
I love this.
I feel like you were just givingme extra insight into receiving
that card.
The Four of Cups, I see it as aninvitation to look at what is
being held out to you that youare either accepting or
rejecting.
If I were to pull this card formyself and slowing down, it
(01:00:28):
would be like, am I dissatisfiedwith the way things are?
And is that why I can't slowdown?
Or if I were to slow down, wouldI actually see something, feel
something that I don't reallywant to feel?
What's your connection to theFour of Cups?
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:42):
Yeah, we can go to the two and the three of Cups.
Yeah.
The two, these people are comingtogether.
In the three, there's morepeople coming together.
And so again, relationshipcards, those are cancer cards.
And then the four, you just getan individual who's a little bit
(01:01:02):
withdrawn looking as this cup isoffered, and they already have
several cups.
So sometimes it feels like thesocial exhaustion, just like,
yeah, relationships are work.
A little similar to Four ofSwords energy, but like the rest
you need after even the goodstuff of the relationships, the
(01:01:26):
socializing, the playfulness,the listening to conversations
and taking in information andcontributing to the social
atmosphere.
So that's one layer.
And then I think another piecethat I talk about is to go to
human design.
I know that the key for amanifesting generator is to wait
(01:01:50):
to respond, to not justimmediately say yes.
And so that card is to me thething that the manifesting
generators are trying to do isthe waiting to respond.
When you pause and you stop,like something came into your
field, an invitation, a can youdo this?
A do you have the bandwidth forthis?
(01:02:13):
And instead of the automatic,well, I don't want to lose my
job, or I don't want this personto be mad at me.
So I'm gonna do it.
There's a pause where it's whatdoes my body say?
How much energy do I have?
Do I actually want to do this?
Or what are the other trade-offsI'm considering as I make this
(01:02:34):
choice?
So yeah, your friends are like,come to this Christmas party,
and you've already got aChristmas party scheduled the
next day, and you're like, Well,I don't want to leave them out.
But your body's like, girl, howare you gonna do all these
parties?
And you just sit with that for asecond and you're like, you know
what, I gotta decline becauseI'm really focusing on resting
(01:02:56):
during the holidays in a brandnew way.
And so yeah, where you lookwithin before you say yes or no.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:04):
And then there is an element, I love this.
I actually love thisinterpretation.
I think there is an element ofsitting.
Oh, it's also generators thathave to wait to respond to some
man gen and generators.
And so I think there's also anelement of saying no is gonna
make you sit with a discomfort.
(01:03:25):
It's not like you're gonna haveto sit and be alone with the
like, oh my god, do they hateme?
Which loops back to the binarythat we're conditioned is either
do they like it or they hate it?
Do they like me or they hate me?
And so I feel like with four ofcups, there's a real invitation
to sit with the discomfort ofsaying no, because when we say
(01:03:49):
yes to one thing, this is verygenerator or manifesting
generator, when we say one yesto something that's not aligned,
if it's not the right cup, thenwe don't then we can't see that
cup that's coming out the otherway that's actually meant for
us.
So there's a real patience inthis card, too.
So when I did this card, sofolks listening, you can pull
(01:04:12):
out all the four of the cards ofyour deck, you can shuffle, pull
out the card, and then go backto where we talked about each of
these cards, and they'll get alittle mini reading on what that
four might be communicating toyou.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:25):
So that's where you would take out the four fours
and shuffle them and see whichone comes up for you, and then
compare to what we're talkingabout.
Okay, yes, good.
I'm looking for my fours rightnow.
Yeah, what fours did you trythis?
They're all hiding.
I haven't seen one of them yet.
(01:04:47):
There's one.
There's the other.
I can't find one of these fours.
This is a disaster.
Well, do you have yours out?
I do.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:07):
Do you want me to draw yours for you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:09):
Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:13):
I'm gonna shuffle and just tell me when to stop.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:24):
Four of ones.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:29):
Time to celebrate.
That's fair.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:32):
Wait, so yeah, we both got the four of ones.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:35):
Yes, that feels good because I do feel like I'm
having more energy.
There are things I feel like Ihave the energy to be creating,
but there are things tocelebrate.
I feel like celebration is alittle bit more of an active
recovery, active restoration.
So and tomorrow is Friday, myVenus day.
(01:05:58):
As a Libra rising, Venus is alsoyour goddess, your planet.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06:03):
Wait, so that means Venus is both of our chart
rulers because you're Taurusrising.
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:06:10):
So Friday celebrations for both of us to
restore energy.
We covered a lot.
We did, we really did.
Thank you for coming back forthese explorations to our
listeners.
Thank you for joining us.
It is always a pleasure to haveyou here.
(01:06:32):
And I'll point you to our emaillist once more because we would
love to connect with you throughother aspects of our work.
So we hope this conversationserved you and entertained you a
little bit.
And we'll talk to you next time.
Thank you so much.
(01:07:11):
Many thanks to Ariana for comingon the show yet again and
joining me in these richexplorations of the tarot, of
creativity, of just living lifein a creative and magical way.
I'm excited to continue theseexplorations.
(01:07:32):
Ariana and I are meeting aboutonce a month to give you a new
episode.
And I encourage you to head overto Ariana's website,
ariannasmith.com, which will bein the show notes.
And there you can sign up forher newsletter so that you can
hear about some of her offeringslike Pitch Party before they
(01:07:53):
happen instead of after thefact.
And if you're not already on myemail list, I think you might
enjoy hearing from me there aswell.
That's where I share more aboutupcoming offers, workshops, some
of my special magical productsand projects.
You can sign up for mynewsletter at
(01:08:15):
typewritertarot.com.
When you do sign up, you willalso get the first three
journaling prompts from myworkbook, Tarot for Creative
Spirits.
So you'll get the journalingprompts for The Fool, the
Magician, and the HighPriestess.
And thanks for being here.
Thank you for listening.
(01:08:36):
It's beautiful to transmit thesethoughts and explorations to you
across space and time.
I'm wishing you a beautifulweek, a beautiful month, a
beautiful holiday season.
And I hope and plan to haveanother episode for you very
soon.
(01:08:56):
Until then, enjoy your creativeand magical life.
Hello, creative spirits.
Welcome to another episode ofyour creative and magical life.
I'm your host, Cecily Saylor, awarrior for your creativity and
your magic, a tarot reader, awitchy Capricorn in Austin,
Texas, who spends a lot of timetalking to her dogs.
(00:43):
Before I get into the episode, Iwant to give you a little update
on what's coming up, how thingsare going, little tiny bit of
behind-the-scenes stuff toaddress the fact that episodes
are coming out slowly, about onea month, not my desired pace.
(01:04):
But I have that problem as acreator and business owner where
I get excited about creating newthings and having new channels.
And so there's just a lot ofdifferent pieces to my creative
project, my creative enterprise,to typewriter tarot.
And I am just one witch, youknow, magic will only take me so
(01:28):
far.
Magic will not yet edit mypodcast episodes for me.
So I've started editing themmyself, partly out of cash flow
consideration for a littlewhile.
And you've met my editor in thestar episode, Chantal, who's
(01:49):
amazing.
So much love for Chantal.
And I hope to bring Chantal backfor more of her beautiful
services.
You still will hear her music inthese episodes because now I've
figured out how to put it inmyself.
And I've gotten a platformcalled Descript where I can edit
the episodes by looking at thetranscript, and I can trim the
(02:12):
transcript and it will edit theaudio for me, which makes it so
much more possible for me tomake a better episode for you.
But it is still time consuming.
And so there was this lag whereno work was really happening on
the podcast, even though I'dbeen recording a few more
(02:33):
interviews.
So now I have a nice littlestash of episodes that I want to
bring you, but they need to gothrough the process.
So I'm super glad, I'm superrelieved, I'm super excited to
bring you this episode, whichwas recorded about a month ago.
Ariana Smith is back on theshow.
(02:53):
And in this episode, we get intowe kind of warm up and talk
about creativity and some of thethings that we've been
developing.
And then we get into holidaytime energy and the way that
feels like a nice portal forrest and relaxation, but often
(03:17):
becomes another set of reasonsor impulses to actually stay
busy and keep doing a lot.
So we're gonna talk about thattension.
We talk about what it can looklike to rest, different forms of
rest.
We look at the four fours in thetarot: the four of pentacles,
(03:40):
the four of wands, the four ofcups, the four of swords.
And we talk about how you canwork with these cards to
understand what kind of restmight be helpful to you or help
you imagine what that rest canlook like.
And I think it's a reallyhelpful episode as we move into
(04:02):
Thanksgiving here in the UnitedStates and then into the winter
holidays, which come quickly onthe heels of Thanksgiving.
So we didn't present it superclearly in the episode, so I
edited it out.
There's a very simple tarotspread in here for you to try
(04:23):
using the fours.
And then in the show notes, Iwill put some other questions
you can use if you want to do alonger spread to reflect on what
rest can look like for you rightnow.
So look for that if you want totry it.
And the stuff about the fourscomes a little bit later.
(04:43):
So I hope you'll stay throughthe episode, enjoy the
conversation.
And then, in terms of what'scoming up next, Ariana and I
recorded an episode onartificial intelligence.
I'm gonna get that one to younext.
I'm just gonna put theseepisodes with me and Ariana
together in this little block, Ithink.
(05:04):
And then I've also got abeautiful interview for you with
an IFS therapist, an internalfamily systems therapist.
We talk about parts work, wetalk about working with our
parts.
This therapist does a littlereading with me using a deck
that focuses on internal partsof the self.
(05:27):
It's very, very nourishing, verysupportive, um, very
interesting.
I've also got an interview withthe guys from Austin Seance,
which obviously I wanted to getto you on Halloween.
Ha ha ha ha.
Like, oops.
Um, even funnier, I wanted toget you a series of interviews
(05:49):
for the whole month of Octoberaround the paranormal, the
supernatural, high strangeness,all of my favorite things.
But that didn't happen.
And then we're also gonna finishout our journey through the
major arcana.
We've still got to do the moon,the sun.
Those are recorded.
(06:09):
The judgment episode isscheduled, and then we'll finish
with the world, hopefully in2026.
And yeah, then we'll keep movingfrom there.
I want to get you more soloepisodes that are shorter, that
are more focused.
I've got some reflections onthis year that I want to share
with you.
So, you know, we will see whatmy body can do, what my calendar
(06:34):
will allow for, but the desireis certainly there.
And I just appreciate yourpatience.
If you're tuning into the showand enjoying the show and
appreciating it, I appreciateyou.
Last thing I'll say actually isthat as Ari and I are working
together and kind of figuringout this collaboration, it's
(06:55):
getting more structure aroundit.
We're creating outlines, we'resetting some more time limits on
our episodes, we're pre-planninga little bit more.
So they're gonna get a littletighter.
They're gonna get, you know,they're just gonna keep getting
better.
And hopefully they'll keeparriving at a good pace so that
you can enjoy them.
(07:16):
All right, here's this latestone with more to come.
Enjoy.
Ari Smith is back.
Ariana Smith, the therapist, thecopywriter, the tarot reader,
(07:39):
the witch.
Ari, welcome back.
Good to be with you.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
That was an excellentintroduction.
Okay, good.
I am yes, I am a witch.
Ari, how how have you been?
What's new for you?
I think since the last time Isaw you, we were both traveling
and we might have both beengoing to a similar place.
So I went to New York City withmy partner.
(08:06):
I tagged along for work,although she corrected me.
We were staying in Jersey City,but we went into New York City
for other things.
So New Yorkers will understandthat distinction.
And then such a juxtapositionwent to rural North Carolina to
meet my partner's aunt and uncleand just chill and relax.
(08:30):
And it was such a juxtapositionbecause being in New York City
and being anonymous, being theleast interesting person in the
vicinity, it was so nourishingfor me on so many levels.
And then since then, I mean, Ican talk about all the things
(08:51):
swirling in my business.
Do you want to hear?
I just hosted a workshop abouthuman design and sustainable
business.
I've been kind of obsessed withhuman design since I got a
reading in 2022.
If y'all are listening andyou're in Colorado or Denver, I
I host therapist chill outgatherings.
(09:11):
And so we have a book clublater, and then we also have a
tarot and chill gathering.
So I'm going to get to gatherwith my local witches.
And I also was invited to do agroup tarot reading for a local
group therapy practice, which Iam so excited about.
And maybe we can talk aboutgroup events today.
But what I was up until 2 a.m.
(09:33):
last night working on was mypitch party, which is basically
a part co-working, part workshopfor therapists, healers,
heart-centered entrepreneursthat want to be more visible
next year.
They want to be featured onpodcasts, publications,
channels, and they don't knowwhat the fuck they're doing.
(09:55):
Or they want to refine theirapproach.
So I was up late last night.
And in doing that, I actuallywas looking back at the email I
initially sent you to initiallybe on your podcast.
Yes.
Because I think that is one ofthe reasons I was like, let's do
pitch party, because it's somany doors open when you just
(10:15):
put yourself out there and youjust let your work be seen.
And I alluded to this earlier,but you were one of the very
first podcasts that I talkedopenly about tarot, that I was
like, I am on this podcast as awitchy person first, not as a
therapist or a copywriter whohappens to be a little witchy.
And I just want to thank you andjust like offer gratitude
(10:37):
because you saying yes to thatjust like opened the door to so
many things.
And I want to offer that magicto other people who are like, I
don't know what I'm doing.
And so probably by the time thiscomes out, the party will have
passed, but they'll probablystill be, I'm making like a
whole pitch kit for people.
So I'm looking at all my pastpitches that got accepted and
(10:59):
deconstructing them.
I'm doing templates andtrackers.
So if this comes out afterNovember 5th, still take a look
at it and see if there'ssomething else that you can get
from it or when I'm running itagain.
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
Amazing.
Yes.
Pitch Party sounds really cool.
All of your offerings latelyhave, you know, I've only known
you since you pitched.
So um I haven't seen yourofferings for like years and
years, but since we've gotten toknow each other, you've been
coming out lately with somereally cool stuff.
(11:30):
And they're different, they kindof like span, you know, some
different things.
And I think it's really cool howyou are holding these different
angles of your work.
I think a lot of people getreally twisted up about like,
well, I'm this, but I'm alsothis.
And like, should I have awebsite for each one?
And like, how do I brand thesedifferent things?
(11:51):
And I think it looks reallynatural the way you're just
weaving things together.
Like, you do have a therapistaudience, and then copywriting
can be for like anyone who's gota business, and then tarot is
for everybody who cares aboutit.
So um, yeah, you're just a greatexample of how we can be many
(12:12):
things and still offer from thatplace of self-knowing.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
So yay.
SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
Thank you.
I appreciate that reflection.
I do have to have a separatewebsite for my therapy practice,
just Licenger.
Otherwise, I would have it alltogether.
SPEAKER_00 (12:30):
There's reasons to do either one, and I don't think
one's better than another, butat least in your email list,
sometimes it feels like anorganic.
Maybe you have two email lists.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
Do you?
I well, okay.
I mean, I used to because I waslike, we might have talked about
this.
I was really hiding my witchyside, and I was like, I don't
know if people want to see this.
But since honestly, being onthis podcast, I was like, why
does this have to be separate?
And so I've really been shiftingmy newsletter to not necessarily
(13:04):
be strictly witchy, but not belike, yeah, I'm gonna talk about
writing with the moon phases,and I'm gonna talk about human
design, and I'm gonna mentiontarot spreads that can help you
with your business.
And that's not gonna be thefocal point because that's not
all that I am.
Cool.
Yeah, thank you.
What are you up to?
SPEAKER_00 (13:23):
I am delivering the final parts of my creative
channel offer, which is asix-week guided journey to help
you clear the creative channel,connect with the creatrix as an
energy, imagine and feel thecreative channel within you.
(13:47):
And it's going reallybeautifully.
People are having some nicebreakthroughs and coming to a
different relationship withcreativity that is less polluted
with the crap of capitalism, thefears, the the anxieties.
(14:08):
I mean, some of that is stillthere.
It's an ongoing struggle for allof us, but we get to go beneath
that and see that we have thisrelationship with creativity
that is sacred, spiritual, andwe get to reclaim that.
So that's going reallybeautifully.
And right now I'm developingsomething called creative
(14:31):
enterprise.
I'm starting to see how creativechannel is the inner work of
resetting that relationship withcreativity.
And then as people are coming tothe end of it, they're getting
some big downloads and clarityaround what they want to create.
People are like, I'm starting towrite my website, or I realize I
(14:56):
might want to take a pilgrimageas a road trip around the
country to get to know mymatrilineal line and maybe write
about it and share about it.
And I'm like, oh my God, that'samazing.
So then creative enterprise isgoing to be more focused on the
external side of the creativeendeavor.
(15:16):
I think creativity wants to havethis sacred private relationship
with each of us, but it alsowants to go out and be in the
world and to be received and tobuild bridges between people.
And so the creative enterprise,there's gonna be a workshop.
It will also have happened bythe time this comes out.
(15:38):
I'm gonna do another like longercourse, but I'm doing a one-off
workshop to explore that all thestuff that comes up around
visibility, rejection, makingmoney or not making money,
platforms, technology.
I mean, we can't cover everylittle thing, but we're gonna
start that process of movingpeople out of the place of I've
(16:01):
had this idea for a long timeand I'm just sitting on it to
okay, I'm gonna do the thing.
I'm gonna do it little bit by alittle bit.
It makes me sad when people arelike, Yeah, I have this idea,
but I'm gonna wait until my kidsgraduate or this or that
happens.
And I'm like, no, the best timeto start is today.
Maybe that's not true.
Timing is its own thing, but itsaddens me sometimes to see
(16:26):
people waiting years to dosomething that they already feel
called to do.
So a lot of my creative energyhas been going toward creating
those things and communicatingand understanding what I'm
offering.
I got to go to a farm in upstateNew York around the time that
you were in New York, and it wasa communal living situation and
(16:49):
just an extremely beautifulplace.
So that was super interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
I yeah, just have to interject.
I remember reading thatnewsletter and I love it, and I
love your newsletter so much.
I love that it just feels likeyou're writing to I know you're
writing to your people, but itjust feels like you're writing
to me.
And you're like, let me tell youabout this farm.
And I remember that.
So that seemed like a reallyawesome experience.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Yeah, it was great.
It's called the Farm at World'sEnd, and they offer these
self-guided residencies.
So you basically pay for yourroom, you bring some groceries,
and you get to wander around.
You can help on the farm, youcan sit in the barn and write or
make stuff, or there were therewas a couple that was working
(17:41):
with wool, they had Icelandicsheep, and so they had gathered
wool and they were cleaning itand then doing whatever you do
to turn it into thread.
And one of them had knitted 40sweaters already, like really
good sweaters, and I was justblown away.
SPEAKER_01 (17:58):
So people just come, they just come there, and do you
have to pay to be there, or youjust have to come and like
contribute?
SPEAKER_00 (18:05):
You do have to pay to be there.
It was very reasonable, and Ithink the rates will probably
remain reasonable through theyear.
I know the farm is needing toraise money, so if y'all need a
getaway, I would go to theirwebsite and you just fill out a
little Google form and then payyour money.
And then yeah, you have a roomfor a week.
(18:28):
And my room was in the mainstructure attached to the big
old barn.
And I had a room overlooking thelittle pond, and then there's
cabins around the property thatdon't have electricity, but they
have a wood-burning stove,they're really cute, it's really
marvelous.
I can see why you like it.
That's very Alaska vibes.
(18:49):
I want to ask you if you everwant to take a guest, I'm up for
it.
I'm just gonna invite myself.
Just gonna invite myself.
SPEAKER_01 (19:00):
I feel like also you and my mom have this kind of
unconscious connection happeningbecause last episode you were
like, wait, Wasilla.
And then my mom had bought yourworkbook.
SPEAKER_02 (19:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (19:12):
She was like, Oh yeah, that's just my mom.
She's like, Oh yeah, I justchecked out the podcast and I
saw the workbook and I justthought I'd check it out.
And so then since then, you sentme your workbook.
And then the last time I talkedto my mom on the phone, you
know, we like send photos ofeach other where we're at in the
workbook.
And of course, I'm hopping allover, I'm coloring with my felt
(19:34):
pens, I'm journaling.
But my mom, who is a retired artteacher, is actually using
watercolors to move throughhers.
And I was like, Can you send mesome photos?
So you'll see that in mynewsletter that goes out next
week.
And I asked her to send me aselfie, my wonderful late 60s
mother, like, send me a selfie,mom.
And of course, it's thisbeautifully framed photo of the
(19:58):
workbook and stuff.
And then she also said, when yousent the workbook, you sent her
a postcard from Texas, which yousent one for me too.
I don't want to give spoilers,but she was like, I need to send
her something back, you know?
I just need to send her.
Yeah.
So I feel like there is somekind of energy happening there
for you.
And because my mom's an artteacher, she's big into
(20:19):
creativity.
Oh, I was gonna say somethingelse around this.
This is kind of a tangent, butnot really.
I wanted to reflect earlier whatyou said around the creative
channel and the creativeenterprise.
I feel like we just shifted toAlaska.
Um, but I really wanted to speakto that piece because it's like
maybe there's like some kind ofcollective energy happening
(20:40):
because we're both sitting withlike, okay, how do you get your
work out in the world when it issuch a vulnerable, sacred,
personal thing?
And I don't know if this is thecase for you, and maybe you
cover this a little bit increative enterprise, is it's
like our creative work is sopersonal, right?
(21:01):
But then we're putting it outthere for people to commodify,
to reject, to um conflate, andhow do we do that dance?
And then we also wanted to likemake money from it, you know,
it's such a weird way.
I'm sure you have thoughtsaround this, but I did have to
(21:23):
notice that thread where we'reboth like, okay, how do you get
your thing out there?
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And for all the reasons youdescribed, I am taking the
position that taking your workout there in some way, whether
it's micro or bigger, is aspiritual journey.
It's a spiritual path that youcan choose to walk for your own
(21:50):
self-development and growth,because it will force you to
confront everything that you'retalking about, the fear, the
visibility stuff, thesequestions of having this sacred
gift, this sacred energy thatyou're channeling, interfacing
(22:11):
with the material world that hasa lot of limitations and a lot
of unfortunate obstacles that wewill encounter.
And so choosing to try andnavigate that is deeply
rewarding because you will findpeople you've never met before.
(22:31):
You'll find people who are verykindred to you, who are thinking
about the same things, who careabout the same things, who are
doing their own things that arereally interesting.
And yes, there will be rejectionor people won't get it, or
whatever.
But if we can choose to focus onhow we handle that and also the
gifts that come back that arenot just money or not just
(22:55):
recognition, then there issomething incredibly just
profoundly rewarding in that ismy argument.
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
That was a beautiful soundbite.
I just want to soak that in.
Getting your work out there is aspiritual path.
It's not just a professionalpath, it's not just a creative
path, it's a spiritual path.
SPEAKER_02 (23:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
And it's not for the faint of heart, but I get the
sense that, and this is probablythe people that you work with is
you reach this point whereyou're like, I can't not do it
anymore.
I can't hide it anymore.
This is just so uncomfortable.
And so it's like you have tomake a choice of like, what am I
(23:43):
gonna take to sleep?
Am I gonna lean into the foolenergy, right?
And just trust I have everythingthat I need.
And I think also what's feelingso alive for me as you share is
like it is a spiritual path,it's an individual path, and it
sounds like there's a place fordoing it with other people.
Do you see any?
(24:04):
I don't want to say pros andcons because that really
simplifies it, but what do yousee for people that are doing
the path alone and for thosethat are doing it with other
people, with like-minded folks?
Even just a creative partner.
SPEAKER_00 (24:19):
Yeah, a couple things I want to say really
quickly.
First, a spiritual path, I thinkit's also like a vision quest,
which sounds really cool.
Because you have this visionyou're seeking, you're looking
for, you're trying to bring intothe world and you're questing
out to do that.
(24:39):
And in terms of that breakingpoint where it's I can't keep
holding it back, I just want tonote that the amount of energy
it takes to hold the desire andhold the idea or the vision or
the call and to continually putit aside and suppress it and
(25:03):
delay it, that's a lot of energyyou have to use to keep it at
arm's length.
And you can start using thatenergy to actually make it
instead of keeping it in a box.
And then in terms of doing itwith other people, yeah, I just
think anything we do with otherpeople, you know, if they are
(25:27):
aligned people more or less, orpeople on the same kind of path,
then it becomes less lonely.
You get more ideas, you find outthat everyone else is struggling
with exactly the same thing.
You get other information aboutdifferent ways it can look and
different ways you can find yourpath through it.
(25:48):
You have people to laugh aboutit with, you have people to
complain about capitalism with,you have more jokes, more
laughter, more magic, and alsomore connections.
Because if the, you know, ifyour folks are aligned in some
way, they're gonna know otherpeople or they're gonna be part
(26:08):
of your audience too.
So that's another reason lately.
I feel like I've shifted alittle bit out of one-on-one
work and still doing it, but andoffering these group guided
journeys where it is a solojourney, like you're getting a
digital care package and you doyour own work with that, but
then we meet up once a week totalk about how it's going,
(26:31):
what's coming up?
And those conversations are justso refreshing and rewarding and
bring up so many other littlepitfalls we run into the way.
SPEAKER_01 (26:43):
So yes.
Do you think I'm like, sign meup?
Uh, do you think that there issome kind of I'm just marveling
at the the current that it feelslike we're both tapping into
because I was literally writingan email to kid you not, like an
hour ago, about how pitching ispersonal work and it opens you
(27:05):
up to deeper work.
And yes, it's for your business,but I was just really thinking
about you know what pitching hasdone for me.
And I've talked about this, likeit's made me grow, it's made me
nourish and care for parts ofmyself that I didn't think
needed attention.
(27:26):
It's helped me really getcomfortable with rejection and
realize I'm really not thatimportant.
And the balance of like, youneed your ideas to land with
folks, right?
But also they need to land withyou.
That's a big dance that we haveto take in capitalism.
What I think is exciting aboutwhat you shared is it feels like
(27:46):
even though we haven't seen eachother for a couple months, or
we're tapped into a reallysimilar current and we haven't
known each other for that long,but then here we are doing these
really similar but reallydifferent paths around how to do
it in our own way.
SPEAKER_00 (28:01):
This goes to the magic of the whole thing.
You sent me a great pitch, and Ihave a small podcast.
I was like, I'm getting pitched.
This is cool, and this personsounds interesting.
And I said yes, and then we havethis conversation, and then
we're having more conversations,which was not anticipated from
the outset.
SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
I think part of that has been because I've been
letting myself just be me andnot fit into a certain box.
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
I think all of this is relevant and feeds into what
we're about to talk about.
Oh, totally.
This notion of our creativecycles, how our energy moves
creatively.
I think that's another part ofwhat I'm focused on in creative
channel, is that we have littleinternalized capitalists within
(28:50):
us that want to be like,creativity, give me, give me the
juice, give me the goods, helpme get rich, help me get out of
my job, help me, whatever.
Like it's an extractive resourcethat just needs to show up for
us.
And no, creativity is an energy,it's a relationship, and it
sometimes it's flowingpowerfully.
(29:10):
I think of like the river,speaking of creative channel,
sometimes it's flooding,sometimes there's been a lot of
rain, and sometimes it's dry.
And that changes, it's alwaysfluctuating.
So, how do we listen to that,tune into that, tend to that,
and listen to our bodies?
And this was your beautifultopic idea.
(29:31):
So, I want to hear from youwhat's been going on or what
your experience has been latelyas you've been in this big
creative burst.
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
Oh my gosh.
Well, I want to give a nod toLindsay Mac because they talk
about the seasons of yourbusiness.
I've been thinking aboutcreativity and I have been tuned
into the lunar phases ofcreation and my menstrual cycle
and hormonal cycles and all ofthat.
And then I was learning.
From their course around theseasons of our business, and it
(30:05):
just got me thinking, we aren'tmachines, right?
It's hard because as acopywriter, I'm on retainer for
folks where I'm having to createconsistently.
There are times where I can justwrite and it just flows out and
all the ideas are there.
And then there are times whereI'm like, oh my gosh, I forget
how to spell things.
(30:26):
And at the same time, there isan expectation for you to be
creatively consistent.
So even if you aren't being paidfor your creative work, there's
still this expectation that youare consistent.
And um I think a lot aboutconsistency.
And you and I both email, wehave a weekly-ish newsletter,
(30:47):
and you know, the lore is to beconsistent with your email list,
to be consistent with posting,to be consistent with blogging.
And I don't know if we'redesigned to be consistent, and
also we need some level of touchpoints to build trust with
people, right?
So I think a lot about knowingwhat your creative cycle is,
(31:13):
what are the supports where youcan be creative, you can honor
your creative cycles, and alsostill pay your bills?
What is the mindset that youneed around this?
And how do you both nurture, I'mlike just throwing out all these
questions, how do you bothnurture your creative channel
and honor it, but also notextract from it too?
(31:34):
I only have questions, noanswers, successfully.
SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
Yeah, it raises so many questions.
And to the consistency piece,one thing we've been exploring
in Creative Channel is thisdistinction between discipline
(31:59):
and devotion.
And I think that a lot ofcreative people feel like they
need to get on this schedule orthis regimen where they create
for an hour three times a week,or every morning they need to
write five pages or a thousandwords or whatever.
(32:21):
And I think that can work forsome people, but I think when we
impose a routine on ourselves,when we become rigid in creating
that expectation of ourselves,it doesn't account for the
fluctuations of energy.
(32:41):
And discipline is just like notthat fun for anyone.
I mean, it is maybe an honorabletrait, or under capitalism, it
certainly is, under ourpuritanical origins.
But devotion, I think, issomething that gives us more
flexibility and it honors thefact that we are working with
(33:02):
something greater thanourselves, and that it is a gift
to get to be with that energyand use that energy and shape it
and collaborate with it.
And so if we think of it more asthis is a gift, this is a thing
I get to do because I am humanand I don't want the external
(33:22):
world to smash that for me.
I am devoted to maintaining itsaliveness and to deepening that
relationship by showing upregularly with a kind of
irregular consistency, let'ssay, yeah, that does honor my
capacity and my ability as aperson living under capitalism
(33:45):
with a lot of responsibilitiesand demands, but that also
honors what creativity isbringing to me.
And so recently, like I went tothe farm.
This is the dilemma in themodern world is like you're
gonna take a week away to go tofor me, this farm where my days
are open.
(34:05):
I don't have anything scheduled,I can move around how I want to.
But in order to get there, Ihave to pre-arrange a lot of
things and wrap a lot of thingsup so that I'm not working that
much when I'm there.
And then when I come back, Ihave to dive in and start up and
catch up.
And there's a lot of emails inmy box, and I gotta, you know.
(34:27):
So even when we take thesewindows on the other side of
that, I came back.
There was the normal catchingup.
My partner was traveling, soI've got to do all the dog
walking or I'm gonna do anycleaning that I want to do.
And then I had set up threeevents in a week of different
kinds.
And by the end of last week, Iwas like, put me in the ground.
(34:52):
I'm my bones were tired.
I went to massage chiropractorenergy witch, and I hadn't seen
her in a while.
It was so needed.
And sometimes she's channelingthings for me, and she's like,
Yeah, you don't have to runyourself into the ground to have
(35:12):
success.
And I my moon is in Capricorn,so the moon is the body.
Capricorn's extra discipline,and so my body will work, but my
body's getting older and morebrittle.
And so after that feeling ofbeing wrung out, it's like,
okay, I have to remember, youknow, when I have a creative
(35:36):
burst of energy, I will try toflow with that as much as I can.
But I know also for people withADHD who can get really
hyper-focused on something, andthis is something you mentioned,
and maybe you'll speak to it.
There's this like, okay, theenergy's flowing, so I'm in the
flow until it's gone.
And then you're up until two inthe morning, but you got to get
(35:57):
up at seven and you're not 21anymore.
And so one thing we talked aboutin Creative Channel with someone
who expressed that sameexperience was like, what about
going in with a timer?
Like having a ritual at thestart of your creative process
and a ritual to bring you out ofit.
So we're not just switchingbetween these two worlds.
(36:18):
But part of that ritual can beokay, it's 11 p.m.
I do need to go to bed at 12:30.
So here's my timer, and it'sgonna make a very pretty sound
when it goes off.
But those are just some thoughtsabout because the other thing is
like, yeah, we can learn aboutour creative cycle, but it's
(36:39):
also changing all the time.
It's not on like an automaticrepeating cycle.
SPEAKER_01 (36:44):
So yes, yes.
No, it's so funny.
I was like, girl, your Capricornmoon is showing, like just set a
timer and follow it.
Um, no, thanks.
Um, so I have a Gemini, I have aGemini moon.
I love this.
It's like your body.
So my exhaustion shows up a lotmore in my nervous system.
And I've managed chronic painfor several years, which is very
(37:07):
much a nervous system thing inmy case.
And so that's interesting ofthinking about your moon,
showing how the ways that youcan keep pushing.
And yeah, I can do a lot, butthen my nervous system is just
like, please stop, please stop,please stop.
And I think there's somethinghere around, and this has been
(37:31):
my dance, and by no means figurethis out.
You know, sometimes we haveparts of us that hold scarcity.
Oh, yeah, that are like, well,it's here, so I gotta get it out
while it's here, you know, andit won't come back.
And I think another thing that Iwanted to speak to that you
shared is there's an internalconsistency and an external
(37:52):
consistency.
And often we highlight more ofthe external.
Am I publishing my newsletterevery week?
Am I doing this?
But when I actually look at, andthis is not the case for
everyone, I'm pretty consistentat turning to my tarot deck
almost every day.
I'm pretty consistent to writingmorning pages, even if it's just
a couple lines.
(38:12):
And that's not things thatpeople see, but those I think
are more important than in thelong term than what we're doing
externally.
So I guess what we could offerfolks is first off, consistency
is so convoluted from acapitalistic perspective, right?
It implies that we're machines,that seasons don't happen, that
(38:36):
our output is the same duringthat time.
But I think we also can frame itlike, what do you want to be
internally consistent about andexternally consistent about?
Because the internal consistencyfeels more about the devotion
aspect, and then the externalconsistency feels more about the
discipline, however, that showsup for folks.
SPEAKER_00 (38:59):
I hadn't thought about that, that internal and
external devotion versusdiscipline.
So that's super helpful.
That gives me more to thinkabout.
And at the same time, it's areminder or just something I
want to emphasize that we alsotend to think that creative
(39:23):
consistency is just the externalpart.
And we don't count the yeah,conversations with tarot cards
or the morning pages where we'repurging the thoughts and
clearing the channel.
We don't count the walks in thewoods where we turn off the
(39:46):
podcast and just listen to thetrees, listen to the birds, or
periods where we're just stilland we're resting more and
allowing maybe a recent creativeburst to digest and integrate
before we go forward again.
SPEAKER_01 (40:08):
Well, what you're describing also is capitalism
doesn't see those things as partof the creative process.
Right.
And I have said this for years.
I'm like, my best writingdoesn't happen when I'm at my
laptop.
It happens out in the world.
(40:29):
I'm writing when I go out and Inotice, you know, what's been
alive for me is just noticingthe angle of the sunlight
changing as we go into fall.
And it's when I sit down to mylaptop that I'm capturing ideas
that I'm going it through.
And so I try to keep that inmind.
(40:49):
That's a little hack I've givenmyself because sometimes I'm
like, I'm only productive whenI'm at my laptop, but I'm like,
no, like your best things come,and best is even a qualifier
that I'm hesitant to use, butyour most alive things come when
you are actually not sitting atthe conveyor belt of production,
(41:09):
of creative production.
I wanted to offer also what hashelped me with my creative
cycles.
And we're gonna go into humandesign another time, but I am
working on a blog that what didI call it?
I'm gonna name it just to give ateaser.
Creative by design, honoring therhythms of your creativity with
(41:30):
human design and tarot.
Um yes.
And I'm talking about creativitybeing a pulse, not a product.
So that's been sitting with me.
I have that in big bold letterson my screen right now.
So we'll go into that anothertime, but I like tracking and
paying attention to my cycles.
(41:52):
And it started just withtracking lunar phases, and I
would just pay attention to whatwas happening during waxing,
waning, full, new, and how myenergy was during that time.
And then I compared that to whatwas happening in my hormonal
cycle, which I was alreadytracking because I have PMDD,
speaking of like inconsistent.
(42:13):
And so then I noticed that myhormones were actually more
connected to my creativity thanthe moon cycle and more
powerful.
There was still an overlapthere.
Wow.
And I know exactly why I was upuntil 2 a.m.
last night, and I won't be thisway in a couple weeks.
And I just know that I need lesssleep right now because of how
my hormonal cycle is.
So I think when we are honoringour creative cycles, there is
(42:36):
something about tracking andnoticing, but then also
accepting.
And then if you can, planning.
So it, you know, I can't alwaysdo this, but if I'm starting a
new copywriting project, I tryto do it around my internal
rhythms, but for external, likewith my clients, they do the
lunar cycle.
So if I'm because I'm like,that's collective energy that's
(42:56):
impacting the project.
And so I will try to schedule itaround a new moon and I'll know
that that person might be likepretty scattered.
And then if I'm scheduling likea feedback call, I might want to
do it more around the full moon.
So then it's illuminating thethings under the surface that
they may not be able to name,but it is important for their
(43:17):
work.
And then the same also with mytarot readings.
If you're planting a seed for anew idea, let's do it around a
new moon.
If you really want to illuminatesome deep shit, full moon, you
know.
And then I also try to payattention.
This is probably a very nerdything for me.
People probably don't think thismuch about it, but I also pay
(43:39):
attention to my seasonal cycles.
So during the winter, I can'thave a meeting before 10 a.m.
my time.
And I also don't want to leavethe house after five.
But then during the summer, I'mlike, yeah, the sun's up.
Let's do this.
So I think these are alltangible examples around how
(44:01):
even though we are workingwithin the confines of
capitalism, maybe there's justone cycle that folks can notice
and track and see what they canshift.
Um, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (44:15):
Yes, this is all super interesting the way that
you've made these distinctions,hormonally, lunar, internal,
external.
SPEAKER_01 (44:27):
Seasonal.
SPEAKER_00 (44:28):
Yeah, and I think like the seasonal one for me was
the first one that I reallylatched on to.
And shortly after getting intotarot, I came upon the wheel of
the year notion and these eightstations of the wheel of the
year organized around theequinoxes and the solstices with
(44:53):
halfway points in between.
And that was huge for me.
It was the first time I couldstart to think about time on a
different not the first time,but moving through time day to
day, month to month on a biggerscale in connection with nature,
(45:15):
which is something I've alwaysfelt uh uh drawn to, interested
in, devoted to.
And I think because you know,seasons are just they're
pronounced.
You feel them in the air, yousee them in nature, your clothes
change, the light changes.
So we have a lot of and they'reslower.
(45:36):
So there's more to notice, wehave more history to lean on,
and we have emotionalconnections to the different
seasons.
And so that's a great place tostart if you're doing this for
the first time, is to start withthe seasonal stuff and just
notice where is your energy.
SPEAKER_01 (45:54):
I love that invitation to just start first
with the seasons because it's soobvious, right?
The examples I gave are prettynuanced and also may not align
for folks.
They may not, you know, or theymay not have a consistent
hormonal cycle or anything likethat, but the seasons are
consistent.
We can deny our internalexperience, right?
(46:18):
But we it's hard to look out thewindow and it's 30 degrees
outside and it's snowing and notdeny that that's happening right
now.
I remember a big thing for mewas I would always fly back to
Alaska for the holidays.
And a big choice for me once Istarted listening to my seasonal
rhythms was actually not flyingback during the holidays.
(46:42):
I am gonna start doing that morenow that there's some shifts in
my family, but initially it wasjust so freeing to be just like,
no, like I don't want to fly inthe holidays, I don't want to go
up there in Christmas.
Why don't I go up there duringthe summer and the fall when
it's a little bit more aligned?
And so that was a really nicerhythm that I found with my
family of like, and this ismaybe something to think about
(47:05):
with the holidays, if there'sthese expectations of like we
spend the holidays together, wedo this, or we output this, it's
like, well, maybe we can do itat a season that actually makes
more sense for us, right?
And so we got into a differentrhythm around how we would visit
each other and how we wouldconnect.
And also, I think about foranyone who is a service
(47:27):
provider, in my case, atherapist, we're trying to slow
down, but often there's a lotcoming up for our clients around
the holidays.
There's grief, there's familydynamics, there's financial
layers to this.
And so even if you can listen toyour own rhythms, there is an
(47:48):
awareness of like, if you holdspace for others, that's going
to be impacting you.
So, what does that mean for you?
I also was thinking about, youknow, the opting out, if it
can't be external, it can beinternal.
So I think I'm maybe tappinginto a little bit of the eight
of swords energy of sometimes wefeel really stuck about what we
(48:11):
can opt out of.
And maybe you have kids, and soopting out of Christmas is not
an option, but is there aninternal opt-out that you can
do?
Is there an internal opt-out ofthis is gonna be my financial
limit, right?
Or we're only gonna do oneactivity this week, or we're not
gonna host, we're not gonna hostdinner, we're gonna do a brunch,
(48:34):
an easy brunch, a potlet brunch.
That's a little bit moreexternal, but even an internal
opt-out of I'm not gonna obsessover if it's the right gifts or
not.
Or I'm not going to shop onlineafter 9 p.m.
or whatever that is.
We kind of have this theme oflike internal, external, and I
think it also matches with howwe can engage with this pacing
(48:56):
too, because capitalism has usbelieve that we don't actually
get to listen and we can getinto this trance of capitalism
and productivity, and it takesso much.
I don't know how much how it isfor you, but it takes so much
energy to slow down.
It's like you think it would beeasy to just like stop what I'm
(49:20):
doing, and maybe this is justhow I'm designed, but I get
momentum around things and Ihave such a hard time slowing
down.
So hard.
And I can share though thistarot spread that we were
talking about too.
Should we segue to that?
Yes, let's do that.
Because this is we love tarot,right?
(49:43):
Um so before this podcast, I wasthinking of all the stuff that I
had to do, but also listening tomy body and my nervous system.
And it was like, it was verymuch telling me, like, if you
don't slow down, we're gonnahave a we're gonna go into a
deeper pain player.
And so I thought about whatcards connected to slowing down
for me, and the fours came up assome really gentle, lovely
(50:09):
anchors around that in differentways.
And so do you want to talk aboutthe fours or can I like invite
folks how to do this spread thatI did before this podcast?
SPEAKER_00 (50:20):
Yeah, let's introduce the fours.
SPEAKER_01 (50:23):
Okay, and how we connect them to slowing down.
Yes, okay, because I think it'sdifferent probably for me and
you, like our connection to thefours is different, but maybe
there's some similar.
So I I think the four of theswords is like the most obvious,
and I'm using the light seriestarot right now.
And the light series tarot forthe four of swords is literally
(50:44):
a a person cocooned in a nest.
And so I see four of swords as acall for rest, a call for laying
horizontal, literally, but alsolike a mental break too, a
mental slowdown.
Like, can you put down theswords?
Like, how do you connect to thefour of swords?
SPEAKER_00 (51:05):
Yes, I cosign all of that.
I will add that the four ofswords follows the three of
swords, and then the two ofswords as well.
And actually, interestingly, Ithink starting tomorrow, we are
(51:27):
in the period of time that thefour of swords governs it's
third piece of Libra season.
So it's got like a 10-dayperiod.
So we're like at the end ofthree of swords time right now.
And studying with ChristopherMarmalejo has revealed this
(51:48):
other arc in that progressionwhere two of swords is this
withholding.
We could compare it to I have acreative vision and I'm not
doing anything about it.
Like that holding, I'm gonna I'mgonna pretend I'm blind to it.
I'm gonna pretend it's notthere.
I'm gonna keep doing what I'mdoing, I'm fine.
And then three of swords is aSaturn card, and it's like, no,
(52:14):
we can't hide it forever.
The honest thing has to comeout, which will create some kind
of breakage, maybe some kind ofpain or grief.
Maybe it's like, oh, I wish I'dstarted this three years ago and
I'm sad about that.
Or in a relationship, it's like,here's how I really feel, and
I've been afraid to tell youthat.
(52:34):
And here's some of my painaround being honest, and here's
some of your pain about hearingsomething that is hard to say.
And then the Four of Swords islike, okay, that was a lot of
psychological labor to call outthe thing and say the thing and
(52:54):
share the thing.
And now we, yeah, like you said,we need this cocoon, we need a
place of stillness, we need alittle sanctuary for ourselves
to just be in solitude.
And I think solitude is anincredibly powerful form of
rest.
Some people find it uh uneasyand uncomfortable.
(53:18):
And if that's you, I thinkthat's a great place to explore
because we are the person wespend the most time with in
life.
And the more we can befriendourselves and find joy in being
with ourselves, then we candistance ourselves from a lot of
these distractions or otherpeople's needs and desires.
SPEAKER_01 (53:39):
I see Four of Swords as you know, some people might
see that nest and be like, Oh,you're just like sitting and
meditating.
Sometimes for me, my favoriteFour of Swords is the zoning out
to a really good TV show that Ilike.
Just giving my brain somethingelse to focus on, some kind of
mental break that maybe isstillness.
(54:00):
I do need those times, butsometimes I need just like
distraction.
I just need to be hooked into astoryline.
So I did want to offer that forfolks with busy the busy brains
club.
With the Four of Pentacles, Ithink it has these traditional
connotations around yourfinances and your security.
(54:21):
When I think about the Four ofPentacles as a way to slow down,
I do think a lot about the body.
I do think a lot about scarcityand like, do I think I don't
have what I need or do I trulynot have what I need?
And I think of the Four ofPentacles as like a chair,
thinking about all four legs onthe ground.
Do you have all the things thatyou need?
(54:42):
I remember my therapist gave methis really great analogy years
and years ago around like, youknow, our life is like a chair.
And if one leg is wobbly, we cando okay.
But if two are off, then we'rehaving a really hard time.
And so if we want to look atfour of pentacles practically,
if this is a card that youconnect with for slowing down,
(55:04):
it's like, what are the legs ofyour chair and how are they each
doing?
And maybe there can be anacceptance if you got a wobbly
one, if you have both off, ormaybe you don't have to fully
fix that wobbly leg, we can justget it a little bit more stable.
What I mean by that tangibly isfor some people, the four legs
are our family, our health, ourrelationship, and our work.
(55:26):
And so maybe things in ourrelationship feel a little bit
wobbly, and that's okay.
We just have to accept thatthat's the season of our
relationship, or maybe ourcareer feels a little bit wobbly
because we're like, oh my gosh,AI is taking over.
I'm gonna take my job.
And you're like, okay, I can'treally change that, but maybe I
need to skill up a little bit.
Maybe I could feel a little bitless wobbly around that.
(55:47):
Once again, that's implyingdoing more, but another option.
How do you connect?
I love your the way you describethe two, three, four of the
things and the progressionthere.
SPEAKER_00 (55:57):
Yeah, I love everything you're saying about
the Four of Pentacles.
I think in my workbook, there'san exercise for the four pillars
where you look at what they are,and I think you draw them, which
I remember having fun doing.
And yeah, a card of like shoringup, stabilizing in that card as
(56:20):
well.
In the writer weight, the SmithWait deck, there the figure is
separated from the village, thecity that's behind them, and
they've got the four coinsarranged around their body.
So yeah, how am I resourced?
How am I held up?
Sometimes it is money.
(56:41):
Do I need to like pull back andfocus on paying off some debt?
Will that give me more security?
Or just a time to check inwhat's supporting me?
Are my thoughts or feelingsabout that support true if I
really look at the facts?
SPEAKER_01 (57:02):
Yeah, maybe the four of pentacles is also an
invitation to slow downspending.
You know, it could be as simpleas why am I spending this money
on this?
Is it compulsive?
Is it feeling like I have to, ordo I want to?
Should we talk about the four ofwands?
I actually really lovedconnecting four of wands and
four of cups to slowing downbecause I feel like the four of
(57:24):
swords and four of pentacles,it's like those are kind of
clear slowdown interpretations,but the four of wands and four
of cups aren't always as clearto folks.
And so I have some thoughts onthat.
So before before we got in thepodcast, I pulled all the fours
out of the deck and shuffledthem.
And I was like, okay, which fourdo I really need to anchor into
(57:45):
right now that I need to connectwith?
And the four of wands reverseshowed up for me.
And what I connect to the fourof wands for slowing down is
like stop and smell the roseskind of thing.
Are you getting so focused ondoing and completing and
finishing that you're notactually pausing to look around
(58:09):
you and see what you cancelebrate and see who you can
connect with?
And so when I received this inreverse, I was like, oh, are you
really not connecting with whatyou do get to celebrate right
now and what you do get to leaninto and feel secure about?
So that was my thought.
If folks get the four of wandsas their slow down card, it
(58:31):
could even also be likeliterally slow down and make
plans with someone.
I also see the four of wands asan invitation to celebrate a
milestone that isn't oftencelebrated.
What milestones are you notcelebrating in your life or
business?
How do you connect to the fourof wands and slowing down?
SPEAKER_00 (58:51):
Again, I agree with all of that.
And would just add or emphasize,I suppose, that the celebration
piece is incredibly powerful inthe creative cycle.
Like you said, we're alwayslike, do the thing, finish the
(59:11):
thing.
Okay, people didn't hate thething.
Great, on to the next thing.
Go, go, you know, and there's nopause for what did I make?
Yeah, how did it go?
I worked really hard.
Let's celebrate that ithappened, that I did it, that we
did it, or whatever the case.
(59:32):
And I I like that word milestonewith the card.
I do think celebration is arestorative element.
I think it also honorscreativity because it takes us a
little bit out of thatextractive cycle of just keep
giving me, keep providing.
It's like, let me pause andappreciate.
(59:52):
And when creativity feelsappreciated, it's like, okay, we
love working together.
Let's keep going because I see.
That you appreciate me and youappreciate what we're doing
together.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:04):
Yes.
Yes.
I love this.
I feel like you were just givingme extra insight into receiving
that card.
The Four of Cups, I see it as aninvitation to look at what is
being held out to you that youare either accepting or
rejecting.
If I were to pull this card formyself and slowing down, it
(01:00:28):
would be like, am I dissatisfiedwith the way things are?
And is that why I can't slowdown?
Or if I were to slow down, wouldI actually see something, feel
something that I don't reallywant to feel?
What's your connection to theFour of Cups?
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:42):
Yeah, we can go to the two and the three of Cups.
Yeah.
The two, these people are comingtogether.
In the three, there's morepeople coming together.
And so again, relationshipcards, those are cancer cards.
And then the four, you just getan individual who's a little bit
(01:01:02):
withdrawn looking as this cup isoffered, and they already have
several cups.
So sometimes it feels like thesocial exhaustion, just like,
yeah, relationships are work.
A little similar to Four ofSwords energy, but like the rest
you need after even the goodstuff of the relationships, the
(01:01:26):
socializing, the playfulness,the listening to conversations
and taking in information andcontributing to the social
atmosphere.
So that's one layer.
And then I think another piecethat I talk about is to go to
human design.
I know that the key for amanifesting generator is to wait
(01:01:50):
to respond, to not justimmediately say yes.
And so that card is to me thething that the manifesting
generators are trying to do isthe waiting to respond.
When you pause and you stop,like something came into your
field, an invitation, a can youdo this?
A do you have the bandwidth forthis?
(01:02:13):
And instead of the automatic,well, I don't want to lose my
job, or I don't want this personto be mad at me.
So I'm gonna do it.
There's a pause where it's whatdoes my body say?
How much energy do I have?
Do I actually want to do this?
Or what are the other trade-offsI'm considering as I make this
(01:02:34):
choice?
So yeah, your friends are like,come to this Christmas party,
and you've already got aChristmas party scheduled the
next day, and you're like, Well,I don't want to leave them out.
But your body's like, girl, howare you gonna do all these
parties?
And you just sit with that for asecond and you're like, you know
what, I gotta decline becauseI'm really focusing on resting
(01:02:56):
during the holidays in a brandnew way.
And so yeah, where you lookwithin before you say yes or no.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:04):
And then there is an element, I love this.
I actually love thisinterpretation.
I think there is an element ofsitting.
Oh, it's also generators thathave to wait to respond to some
man gen and generators.
And so I think there's also anelement of saying no is gonna
make you sit with a discomfort.
(01:03:25):
It's not like you're gonna haveto sit and be alone with the
like, oh my god, do they hateme?
Which loops back to the binarythat we're conditioned is either
do they like it or they hate it?
Do they like me or they hate me?
And so I feel like with four ofcups, there's a real invitation
to sit with the discomfort ofsaying no, because when we say
(01:03:49):
yes to one thing, this is verygenerator or manifesting
generator, when we say one yesto something that's not aligned,
if it's not the right cup, thenwe don't then we can't see that
cup that's coming out the otherway that's actually meant for
us.
So there's a real patience inthis card, too.
So when I did this card, sofolks listening, you can pull
(01:04:12):
out all the four of the cards ofyour deck, you can shuffle, pull
out the card, and then go backto where we talked about each of
these cards, and they'll get alittle mini reading on what that
four might be communicating toyou.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:25):
So that's where you would take out the four fours
and shuffle them and see whichone comes up for you, and then
compare to what we're talkingabout.
Okay, yes, good.
I'm looking for my fours rightnow.
Yeah, what fours did you trythis?
They're all hiding.
I haven't seen one of them yet.
(01:04:47):
There's one.
There's the other.
I can't find one of these fours.
This is a disaster.
Well, do you have yours out?
I do.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:07):
Do you want me to draw yours for you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:09):
Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:13):
I'm gonna shuffle and just tell me when to stop.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:24):
Four of ones.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:29):
Time to celebrate.
That's fair.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:32):
Wait, so yeah, we both got the four of ones.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:35):
Yes, that feels good because I do feel like I'm
having more energy.
There are things I feel like Ihave the energy to be creating,
but there are things tocelebrate.
I feel like celebration is alittle bit more of an active
recovery, active restoration.
So and tomorrow is Friday, myVenus day.
(01:05:58):
As a Libra rising, Venus is alsoyour goddess, your planet.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06:03):
Wait, so that means Venus is both of our chart
rulers because you're Taurusrising.
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:06:10):
So Friday celebrations for both of us to
restore energy.
We covered a lot.
We did, we really did.
Thank you for coming back forthese explorations to our
listeners.
Thank you for joining us.
It is always a pleasure to haveyou here.
(01:06:32):
And I'll point you to our emaillist once more because we would
love to connect with you throughother aspects of our work.
So we hope this conversationserved you and entertained you a
little bit.
And we'll talk to you next time.
Thank you so much.
(01:07:11):
Many thanks to Ariana for comingon the show yet again and
joining me in these richexplorations of the tarot, of
creativity, of just living lifein a creative and magical way.
I'm excited to continue theseexplorations.
(01:07:32):
Ariana and I are meeting aboutonce a month to give you a new
episode.
And I encourage you to head overto Ariana's website,
ariannasmith.com, which will bein the show notes.
And there you can sign up forher newsletter so that you can
hear about some of her offeringslike Pitch Party before they
(01:07:53):
happen instead of after thefact.
And if you're not already on myemail list, I think you might
enjoy hearing from me there aswell.
That's where I share more aboutupcoming offers, workshops, some
of my special magical productsand projects.
You can sign up for mynewsletter at
(01:08:15):
typewritertarot.com.
When you do sign up, you willalso get the first three
journaling prompts from myworkbook, Tarot for Creative
Spirits.
So you'll get the journalingprompts for The Fool, the
Magician, and the HighPriestess.
And thanks for being here.
Thank you for listening.
(01:08:36):
It's beautiful to transmit thesethoughts and explorations to you
across space and time.
I'm wishing you a beautifulweek, a beautiful month, a
beautiful holiday season.
And I hope and plan to haveanother episode for you very
soon.
(01:08:56):
Until then, enjoy your creativeand magical life.
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