Reading Tarot in Groups, Play Personalities & Growing Up in Alaska w/ Arianna Smith

Cecily welcomes back to the show Ariana Smith — twin, Alaskan homestead kid, IFS-certified therapist, copywriter, and professional tarot reader — to explore how place, family, and parts work can shape a creative and magical life. We wander through Alaska’s quiet woods and loud storms, talk nervous systems and city overload, and laugh about moose logic while tracing how nature trained us to notice what others miss.

Then we flip the spread to group tarot. Reading for more than one person adds a witness, a third perspective who can validate, challenge, and playfully call in truth. We share real stories of family and group readings, and discuss the subtle ethics that make shared sessions feel safe. You’ll hear how certain card pairings — like Judgment and The Empress — speak like a creative bullhorn, and why good readings often expand complexity instead of forcing false clarity.

We also get into the act and necessity of play and explore the various “play personalities,” like director, storyteller, explorer, and collector. Discover simple ways to host a low-pressure tarot night and give your guests a little magic they'll remember forever. We close with a Tarot pull on how to invite more play into our lives today. 

If this episode resonates, please: subscribe, share with a friend who loves Tarot or Alaska stories, and leave a review to help more creative spirits find us.

Some things we referenced in this episode: the book Feel Good Productivity by Ali Abdaal, The Liberation Tarot and Light Seer's Tarot, and check out Arianna's Sounding Board Sessions and her Pitch Party on November 5!

This podcast is a production of Typewriter Tarot. Learn more & join us:

• Join the newsletter and receive the first 3 journaling prompts from Tarot for Creative Spirits (the workbook).
• Subscribe to Typewriter Tarot's Substack.
• Check out upcoming events & workshops.
• Work one-on-one with Cecily (book a free curiosity call).
• Book a Tarot reading.
• Shop our bookshop.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
Hello, creative spirits.
Welcome to another episode ofyour creative and magical life.
I'm your host, Cecily Saylor,and I'm so glad you're here.
We have another sweet episodewith Ariana Smith, and we'll be
having a really sweetconversation about Alaska and

(00:34):
the wilderness and reading tarotfor more than one person, doing
the group thing, and probablytalk a little bit about
transitions of some kind as westart to transition seasons, but
as we are always transitioning,it feels like.
So I hope this supports you andenriches your creative and

(00:58):
magical life.
I'm really happy to have Arianaback on the show.
I think Ariana is going to bevisiting about monthly to just
be a conversation partner.
I'm an only child.
I like to do things by myself,but it's nice to just have
someone to flow with and chatwith and nerd out without

(01:19):
necessarily having it be aninterview.
So Ariana and I were kind ofjiving and she's back for more.
Hello, Ariana.
Welcome, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
I love this contrast.
Hello, everyone.
Um, I'm actually a twin and adouble gemini.
Yeah.
So we'll get more into that whenwe talk about Alaska.
But when you say you're like anonly child, I was like, I don't
even know what that's like.
I mean, I've shared a womb sinceI existed.

SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
And I cannot imagine twins.
My partner is a fraternal twin.
Yeah, twins are just likeunicorns.
It's amazing.
You're a twin from Alaska, soyou're extra unicorn.

SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Oh, I well, so I have a fraternal twin sister,
and she actually has identicaltwin girls.
So uh there's a lot of matchingoutfits.
It's just all I'm gonna sayabout that.

SPEAKER_01 (02:19):
Matching outfits.
Your sister probably isn't inAlaska anymore.
She is, yep.

SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Everyone's up there.
Yeah, everyone's up there.

SPEAKER_01 (02:27):
Well, I knew you went to Alaska.
It was in your wonderfulnewsletter.
And then I realized you werefrom Alaska, and Alaska to me is
like this exotic wilderness landthat I've been wanting to visit
for decades.
And I'm like, wow, there'ssomeone who's like, it's just
their home and a place that theygo.

(02:48):
And as some of my listenersknow, if you've heard me, I'm
like a paranormal freak.
And there's lots of like goodparanormal things in Alaska.
So that also got me excited.
But would you tell us a littlebit about where you're from and
what it's like?

SPEAKER_00 (03:06):
Yeah.
So I was born and raised inAlaska on a homestead in outside
West Silla in the Meadow Lakesarea, if people know.
And that homestead was built bymy maternal grandpa and great
grandma.
And when my mom was raised inthat homestead, they eventually

(03:26):
got running water.
And then by the time I wasraised in that, we had
electricity, we had runningwater.
So it was the homestead, but notin the way it was back in the
50s.
Um, so I have a really lovelylineage of both both my
grandparents on both sidessettling in Alaska and just

(03:47):
being like, this is where wewant to be.
My parents actually met atWasilla High School.
They were high schoolsweethearts, and then I went to
that high school.
So I was raised around a lot ofextended family.
And I identify as highlysensitive.

(04:08):
I don't know if you do as well.
And really being raised inAlaska as a like a highly
sensitive child was so amazing.
I just got to play in the woods.
Like I just had to stay withinearshot and just watch out for
moose.
I just got to be in nature andlike play in my head and like

(04:31):
swim in the lake, pretend I wasa mermaid.
It just was so lovely in thatrespect.
Along the lines of the onlychild piece, I was raped by
incredibly, incrediblyindependent women, like very
hyper-independent.
And so I really grew up watchingthe women in my family just take

(04:54):
care of shit and get it done.
And my dad worked up on theNorth Slope, which is the oil
rig up on the very, very tippytop of Alaska.
And so he would be gone twoweeks at a time and home two
weeks at a time.
And so when he was gone, therewas a blizzard, the power went
out, my mom lighting candles,she's filling the bathtub with

(05:17):
water, she's getting out thesnow plow.
And if we don't have power,we're navigating that.
So I grew up not as an onlychild, but just with that energy
of like, I can do this.
And I think that reallycontributed to me eventually
leaving the state, moving out ofstate, starting my own business,

(05:39):
enjoying the risk of that, andstill like loving being an
entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01 (05:44):
Amazing.
I was in this environment whereit was like all concrete,
streets, giant highways,traffic.
And by the time I was finishinghigh school, I was like, I gotta
get the fuck out of here.
It just didn't nourish me.
And I'm in Austin now, and I'vebeen in Austin a long time, and

(06:04):
it's not that far from Houston,but there's the river running
through the city, there's agreen belt and hills, and um,
there's just more green.
There's a spring in town, youknow, we can go swimming.
So that's beautiful that you hadthat experience.

SPEAKER_00 (06:22):
So you have to look out for moose more than bear.
It depends where you're at.
It depends.
I mean, I'm definitely not gonnafuck with bears, but it was much
more likely down where I was tosee a moose.
And what you have to watch outfor in if she've got some
babies, we do not want to get inbetween mama and moose and her

(06:45):
babies.
And I just think they're thecoolest creatures, like just so
big and peaceful, and also notthe smartest.
I have funny memories of drivingalong the highway, and like the
moose would think it was hiddenbecause it couldn't see you.
It'd be behind a brush with itsbig, huge rum sticking out, and

(07:06):
it's like we can see you.
This isn't obvious.
But I hear you on needing anenvironment that was sensory
friendly for you.
That's something whenever I goback to Alaska, especially I
stay with my parents, it's soquiet.
It's so quiet.
I live in Denver now.
I live outside Denver, and it'sjust so quiet.

(07:28):
And I don't think folks realizeyou and I did, but I don't think
folks realize just the wear onyour nervous system when you're
around that all the time, highlysensitive or not.

SPEAKER_01 (07:38):
Yes, yes.
That's very real.
And looking back on it, I thinkmy experience with alcohol was a
way to tone things down and thennot drinking anymore and getting
older and just letting myself bemore of who I am.

SPEAKER_00 (07:54):
It's like the sensitivities are even greater.
Something that stood out to mewhen I first started
understanding and studying highsensitivity was this statement.
I don't remember who said it,but they said an HSP has saved a
life at least once with theirhigh sensitivity because of
something they noticed thatpeople didn't.

(08:16):
And here's my story.
I was in an apartment, I wasliving in an apartment on the
second floor, and I kept hearingthe beeping above us.
My partner at the time didn'thear it.
I was like, no, there is abeeping happening up there.
And I called the office, and thepeople above us had left their
oven on and had left the houseand could have burned down the

(08:38):
place, but I heard it.
Our sensitivity helps us noticethings that other people don't,
and also makes us very creative,very attuned to tarot.
But I want to hear, okay,speaking, you know, sensitive,
you have I am not as into theparanormal history of Alaska as

(08:59):
you are.
So I think you're gonna give I Ithink you're gonna teach me
something about Alaska.

SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
Well, don't count on it, but two things I want to say
real quick is that strangely,perhaps magically, before we got
on to record this episode, Iwent to the post office to mail
a couple of my books that peoplepurchased, and one of them was
going to Wasilla, Alaska today.

(09:25):
And I actually had to look atthe thing again because it was
more expensive than usual.
And I was like, what?
Oh, it's going to Alaska.
And then I was like, wait, isWasilla in Arkansas or Alaska?
Sorry.
Anyway, so on my mind, and hi toBarb in Wasilla, who's got a
book coming.
Wait, that's my mom's name.

SPEAKER_00 (09:47):
Her last name is Smith.
I think you're did your mom buymy book?
I don't know.
I don't want to share heraddress.
Can you type in the chat theaddress?
Yes, let me get it.
So there's that's fucking wild.

SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
Why, yeah, so wild.

SPEAKER_00 (10:01):
Um my mom is an art teacher, so or a retired art
teacher.
So if she didn't buy it, thensomeone else did.
But it's probably a differentBarb Smith.
But if she did, that would bewild.
Hold on, hold the fucking phone.
Hold on.
Dot.

(10:22):
I have to look.
Hold on, I'm sorry.
She does have a UPS bar.
My mom bought your book.
That's my mom's fucking address.
My mom bought your book.
And I mailed it today.

SPEAKER_01 (10:38):
And wow, that's hilarious.
Oh my gosh.
Wait, what's your uh it's tarotfor creative spirits?
I need to send you a copy.
It's got journaling prompts forevery card in the tarot and
creative prompts, and it'sillustrated.
Oh, that's totally my mom'svibe.

(10:59):
And there's a lot of tarotspreads in the back, but it's
basically to help you get toknow the cards through your own
personal experience while alsogetting some really rich
self-inquiry.
And obviously, it's magical, aswe can tell from this whole
conversation.
But I often find that when youpull a card for the day and go

(11:21):
to that prompt, and it willusually like give you just what
you need.
Yeah, I need to send you one.
The other thing is that I wantedto say is that I listened, my
father and I watched NorthernExposure gleefully when I was a
little when I was younger, whenthat was coming out, and that
was obviously set in a smalltown in Alaska with a doctor

(11:43):
who'd come from New York Cityliving in this small town.
And in the opening, there's likea moose walking down the main
street.
It's the saddest moose.

SPEAKER_00 (11:52):
Just so you know, Alaskans like look at that.
First off, not to bust Burstyour bubble.
It was filmed in Canada.
Nothing is ever really filmed inAlaska because it's too
expensive.
But I love that we I love thatyou enjoyed that.
I was just the generation tomiss it or to like not get the
humor.
And also back to the homestead,we didn't really have TV in our

(12:15):
house.
So maybe I need to go back andwatch the episodes.
Is there an episode that standsout to you about northern
exposure?

SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
It's been a while, but I'm kind of tempted to go
back as well.
And this is where Aiden from Sexin the City first started.
He was the DJ at the radiostation, the hippie guy, little
bit of dude energy from BigLebowski.
He's like the hot man on theshow.
Anyway, in terms of theparanormal, I just love that

(12:45):
content.
I've always been interested inlike mysterious things.
And when I was young, it wasghost stories or books with a
ghost in it, like wait tillHelen comes.
Oh, oh, I remember that.
And then I think I just didn'tthink about it too much for a
while.
But when I got back into tarot,I just let everything start

(13:08):
connecting.
And now there's like morecontent around it on streaming
services.
But there's a show on HBO, Ithink, called The Alaska
Triangle.
It's kind of a reference to theBermuda Triangle.
Sort of hilarious because likewhen they show you the Alaska
Triangle, it's pretty much allof Alaska.
But it has a lot to do withpeople's mysteriously

(13:31):
disappearing, which of coursecan happen just in the
wilderness because there's somany hazards and no one you can
call, and everything is soremote.
Also, Bigfoot encounters, UFOsightings, and I think there's
an episode about a ruined townthat maybe had a fishery and a
cannery that everyone fledsuddenly because of some

(13:53):
mysterious thing.
And there's another show calledAliens in Alaska.
And both of them, as far asthese kinds of shows go, are
pretty well produced.
I'm not saying they're Emmywinning, but pretty good quality
for the genre.
So there's not a lot of historyI can share with you.
I'm not an expert.
I am an entertained spectator,but I think it also fits with

(14:16):
just that majesty of Alaska.
I do want to know have you everhad any like interesting,
strange, unexplainableexperiences?

SPEAKER_00 (14:25):
We'll start with that.
I haven't, although legend hasit that my paternal grandma was
psychic.
I never she died before I wasborn.
Um and would know people werecalling before they called.
And something that she said tomy dad that my dad passed to me,

(14:46):
and this is all secondhand.
Apparently, my grandma said, ifyou don't want to engage with a
spirit, ask it to go away.
Tell it to go away.
Say, I want nothing to do withyou, please go away.
And so I was raised aroundacknowledging that that could
happen, but that just ask it togo away.

(15:07):
And so I never really had thatexperience, but it I also felt
like if I did, I would had beentold what to do.
But I am going to ask the nexttime I go up, I am gonna ask my
extended family if they haveever had any paranormal
experiences because my dad is abush pilot, and so was my uncle
and my grandpa.

(15:28):
When I went back, my partnerwent with me for the first time.
My partner, who was raised inCalifornia, also lived in New
York for 15 years, comes backand is just like, it's so rural.
And I was like, Wassilla isn'treally considered rural by
Alaska standards, you know?
We can get to a grocery store in30 minutes.
That's not rural.

(15:48):
We can get there by car.
Just her observing and seeingfamily dynamics helped me just
have added clarity around how Ishow up in the world, some of my
patterns I think are normal ormaybe healthy that actually
maybe aren't.
And also have a deeperappreciation for the people that

(16:12):
are in my life.
And I know we have talkedbefore, our speaking of alien,
speaking of paranormal, we hadour very first episode disappear
about yes.
But then we also talked lasttime about coming out of the
broom closet.
And I had a couple of familymembers that are like, we want a
tarot reading.
My boundary is I don't givetarot readings if you're just

(16:34):
gonna do it to make fun of me orof tarot.
But if you genuinely want atarot reading, let's do it.
So I actually got to give atarot reading to my sister's
friends, my sister, my mom, andmy aunt while I was up there.
And that was why y'all.
That was just wild to be like,oh my gosh, I'm doing this.

SPEAKER_01 (16:58):
Yeah, that's exciting when your family starts
to like open up about it or getmore curious about it if they're
not already into it.
And yeah, it's interesting.
There's some kind of likeexistential filter that comes up
when you bring someone you knowin your current life to a place.

(17:20):
I don't know.
Like, even when you bring afriend into your new house and
they haven't been there before,and you're kind of like, oh, how
do I look at this through newfresh eyes, the way that my
friend might be?
Um seem with going to your home,your place of origin, even more

(17:40):
so, especially when you havefamily members around.
So I'm curious if there'sanything you want to share about
what you noticed.

SPEAKER_00 (17:47):
Well, my partner noticed more so.
Okay.
I think there's I mean,connecting this to like IFS
because I'm a huge IFS nerd.

SPEAKER_01 (17:55):
Um that is internal family systems.

SPEAKER_00 (17:58):
Oh, internal family systems.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
And we I failed to mention just to remind folks,
tell us about your work reallyquick and where you're coming
from.
My bad.
I'm treating you like you'rejust like always here.

SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
Here, I love it just to dive in.
Well, since we last met, I'mofficially an IFS certified
therapist, which requires an Xlevel around that.
So I'm a psychotherapist, I havea certified therapist, love
working with neurodivergent,highly sensitive, queer trauma
survivors.
So I bring a big attachmentlens, trauma-informed lens, and

(18:37):
a parts, parts lens to my work.
And then you and I were talkingabout writing earlier.
I'm also a copywriter.
And then in the past year, ashas been the story of the past,
I reluctantly started offeringprofessional tarot readings.
So now I'm now I, as I joke, I'ma professional witch.

(18:59):
We need them.
Yeah, we do.
We do.
Yes, me.
Um, so your question around whatI noticed.
Well, no one's on time.
We have Smith time, and mybeloved partner is on time to
everything and in fact is likeearly.

(19:21):
So I got to notice a little bit.
I'd always known that I had alittle bit of time blindness,
but I got to really see that inaction a little bit more and be
how no one can leave the houseon time.
And there's stages to sayinggoodbye.
The other thing that she noticedthat I that I took for granted
is what we do in family is welike sit and visit.

(19:45):
And she was like, I don't know,visiting.
She's like, visiting, what doesthat mean?
You know, because she'd wantedto have a plan and what we do.
And I was like, Oh, we'reprobably just gonna like sit and
visit.
Visit what does that mean?
I think it's a Midwestern thingbecause I brought it up to my
friend who might some of myfriends are from the Midwest,
the South, too.
You sit and talk, yeah.
And they're probably food there,probably drink there.

(20:06):
Yep.
So I just saw how much that thatwas a big part of my family
dynamic is we just love to sitand talk and connect, and then
also dynamics around what did Inotice?
I think more just, and this goesback to the parts work thing.

(20:28):
I think when we're aroundfamily, it's really easy to go
into teenage parts, young adultparts, child parts, and having
someone there helps you stay inyour core adult self and
interact with folks differentlyand interact with them as an
adult because I've been awayfrom Alaska since I was probably

(20:53):
for like 15 years now.
And I very much joke I'm like anMM that's like Alaska on the
inside, but like Colorado on theoutside.
So I probably am not reallysuper Alaskan by Alaskan
standards, except until I bringpeople home.
And I was like, oh yeah, ofcourse.
Like, watch out for the moose.
There's a moose there.
We thought moose on our firstday.

(21:14):
So that is something that Inoticed is that having someone
there was a really nice anchor,but also it made me want to
think about the practices thathelped me stay connected to me
and to adult me and for me.
And in doing that, it reallyhelped deepen my relationships

(21:36):
with the other family membersand show up as an adult, not as
a teenager or as a child or evenas a young adult.
Will you share the practice?
Uh feels anchoring.
I mean, I love morning pages.

SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (21:56):
I know it's basic, but I love morning pages.
And I love obviously pullingcards.
I've been doing a lot of morningone card pulls.
What do I need to know today?
What do I need to know?
What does my heart need in doingthat as well?
What about you?

(22:16):
Do you have anything?

SPEAKER_01 (22:18):
Yeah, journaling is big.
Pulling cards is big.
Getting out for a walk with mydogs is big.
When I meditation is reallyhelpful and like taking breaks,
going outside.
Um yeah.
And sometimes the quiet or alonetime is really nice too, having

(22:40):
a little pocket of that.
Yeah.
Let's go back to reading tarotfor your family.
Yeah.
What was that like?
What happened there?

SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
Well, I knew going up that my was gonna be giving a
reading to my sister's friendwho I didn't know.
I'd love to hear your experienceabout this.
It's really different to readfor someone that you don't know
and you don't have arelationship with than someone
you do have a relationship withas well.
But the first the firstexperience I've had of reading

(23:13):
tarot with a witness is what Ithink about it, was actually
reading for my aunt for herbirthday.
And my mom was present and awitness for that.
The theme I'm seeing is it makesit so much richer because I have
my perspective reading for thecard, but then that third party,

(23:35):
that witness, gets to bring in areally valuable and different
perspective.
And so, for example, I'm tryingto respect like privacy and all
of this, but what I found isthat I would be reading the
cards and I'd be like, here'swhat the cards are saying,
here's what I'm seeing.
Does this resonate for you?

(23:56):
And the person receiving thereading would be like, well,
kinda, I don't know.
And then the third party,sister, mom, and would be like,
um, actually, you do XYB.
And so it was this, because Ifeel like when I am reading
tarot, I'm there to interpretthe cards and there to make

(24:18):
meaning and help to like helpthem with that process.
But then there's this thirdperson there that's just like,
no, I totally see this for you.
And so it adds really, reallybeautiful angle to it because
tarot is already revealing whatwe don't know and what we can't
see and what we might not wantto look at.

(24:38):
And then you're limited by theconsciousness of the person that
you're reading for.
But when you have this thirdperson who knows them, it's
making it five-dimensional in away, is the way I see it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (24:51):
Yeah, it's really interesting to have.
I like that word, a witness thatfeels really sweet and juicy.
I've done a lot of readings inpublic, like maybe where I have
a little table at an event andpeople come and sit down.
And so often they're like, Canmy friend sit with me?
Or two people approach andthey're like, Do you want to do
it together?

(25:12):
And so that'll happen from timeto time.
And just for what it's worth, ifanyone out there is doing this
kind of thing or thinking aboutthis kind of thing, my approach
is always to ask the personwho's getting the reading, do
you want them there or do youwant privacy?
It's interesting when there's acouple and sometimes they want

(25:32):
to read together, but sometimesa partner, one of the partners
wants to have privacy.
And sometimes something from therelationship will come up in the
reading.
But uh there's both the there'slike some extra validation, like
you're saying, and you get asecond response to what you're
offering through the card.

(25:53):
So the friend starts nodding orsmiling or kind of laughing, or
there's, you know, elbowing thequery, and they'll bring, you
know, sometimes they'll bring insomething that enhances it.
And then I think for the personwatching the reading, sometimes
for the witness, sometimes thatperson is the one who wants to

(26:18):
go second because they're alittle bit tentative.
So watching the reading takeplace and seeing how it's
conducted and what it's going tobe like and how it's not really
that scary really gets someexcitement going for them to
have their cards read.
And then, of course, there'sthis renewed, I feel like
connections of intimacy areeither energized or enhanced

(26:43):
through the reading because thereading's always going to get
into the the stuff of lifethat's like really important and
really uh really holding a lotof weight and meaning for
people.
And so it gets them talkingabout that thing, which they
may, of course, talk aboutplenty, but they might not talk

(27:04):
about it that much.
And so, um, and the querant getsthis reminder that their friend
sees them and knows them and isboth on their team, but also
there it'll keep them straight alittle bit sometimes or help
them see through the blindspots.
So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (27:23):
So it's kind of like tarot gets to call bullshit.
And like you've had readingslike that where you like look at
a card and you're like, Oh,okay, how am I gonna how am I
gonna communicate this?
And so you communicate it verysoftly, gently or directly.
And then that third person, thatwitness, gets to be like, Yeah,

(27:45):
remember when XYZ?
I really unintentionally havepulled a lot on my training
around offering like therapygroups when I'm doing these.
The word that keeps to mind islike tarot, tarot witnessing,
like tarot reading, tarotwitnessing, because I just can't
help but want to nourish thosethreads and nourish what they're

(28:10):
observing, still keeping itfocusing on the queryant, but
also, you know, you as the tarotreader, depending if you're
reading for them or not, you'renot going to be continuing to
support them with theintegration.
So that's another beautifulaspect of having a witness to
it, is then being able, almosthelping to be a little bit of

(28:31):
accountability aroundintegrating it too.

SPEAKER_01 (28:34):
Yeah.
And because the person saw everycard flop over, the query
doesn't have to explain thereading first because the other
person just experienced it.
And so you already have thatframe of reference.
And there will often be thisthing too where the this like,
we were just talking about blahblah blah blah blah.

(28:54):
So they get that magicalsynchronistic, yeah, the
universe hears you and it'stalking back, and that was an
important thing that you weretalking about, and you know,
because maybe they're talkingabout what happened with their
therapist or whatever, and thenthe cards will come underline
that.
And I think to your point aboutgroups therapeutically, being in

(29:17):
a therapy group for me was aninterpersonal processing group
of men and women with a male anda female therapist.
I did that for three years, andthat really did so much for me.
So much for me.
It's really powerful becauseyou'll find people in the group
who become a kind of archetypefor someone else in your life

(29:43):
that you have baggage with.
And so you can work out some ofthat friction.
It's like uncomfortable and it'sscary, and it takes like a long
time to slowly move throughthat, but you have this stand in
to work.
It out with who isn't in yourlife.
I mean, they're in your lifeonce a week for an hour, but you

(30:05):
can't text them, you can't hangout, you don't owe them
anything.
So that's a really beautifulwork.
And partly why, you know, I'vecreated the Creative Magic
Collective.
It's single.
Everything multiplies when youdo it in community IP.

SPEAKER_00 (30:22):
Yeah.
Well, and you know, group groupsare just a microcosm of the
outer world.
And so whatever comes up ingroups is coming up in your
outside life.
And that's that's how certaintherapists work.
That's how I really lean a loton a therapist.
If I'm feeling a certain waytowards a client, I don't

(30:45):
personalize that.
I'm like, oh, if I'm feelingthis way towards them, I wonder
if other people feel that waytowards them.
And how can I bring that in?
How can I better understandthat?
How can I bring that into thework in a way that's helpful for
the client?
Because therapy is arelationship, group therapy is a

(31:06):
relationship.
I also want to name, I think themost effective groups, and maybe
people might point me on this.
I think the most effectivegroups have two facilitators
because there is so much to spotand track, right?
So much to spot and track, whichis why when I think of group
tarot reading, I'm like, how areyou attuned to everything?

(31:32):
How do you attune to theindividual versus the vibe of
the group?
I'm obviously feeling out thismodel, but that's what's
different from what we'redescribing with having a
witness.
I'm attuning to the query, notto that witness.
I mean, I'm picking up the vibe,but I'm really attuning to the

(31:52):
person.
But when you're doing a grouptarot reading, what are you
attuned to?
Have you done group tarotreadings before?
Like for an actual group?

SPEAKER_01 (31:59):
Yeah, I remember a party that a friend held and
they invited me to read.
And instead of ending up at alittle table, we just did like a
big table, and whoever wanted tobe there could sit.
So maybe it was six to eightpeople around a table.
And I think I did like one ortwo cards for everyone.

(32:22):
And so some people knew eachother in different kinds of
ways.
And it was also there were otherpeople at the party doing other
things.
So it was a little challengingto go super deep.
But within the group, you'reawaiting your turn.
But when it's your turn to get areading, most of the other

(32:44):
people are tuned in to you andwhat you're getting.
And then you start to seeconnections between people arise
that maybe they were not awareof, or there's a new basis for
conversation, or just aconnection that wasn't present
before, whether it's from somepast experience or being an only

(33:07):
child, for example, or being atwin, for example.
And then there's also thismoment because in a reading, the
querent is going to sharesomething.
So then there's this spirit of alittle bit of vulnerability that
starts to get cultivated.
And it's not going to go superdeep in a setting like that.
Um, but in an enclosed therapygroup, it certainly can.

(33:30):
And so I'm coming back to thisword visiting.
Every person at the table isgetting a visitation from the
tarot.
And then everyone's in thisvisiting space because they're
catch catching on to each otheror tuning into some part of life
that hasn't been discussed, butit just creates this sort of

(33:52):
magical energy that's alsorelated to real life and what
you care about, which many groupsettings we can be a part of are
just more superficial.

SPEAKER_00 (34:04):
I love that.
I agree.
I mean, tarot deepens.
Yes, it deepens.
And I noticed that when I wasreading for my family, that it
opened the door for people tosay things.
When you were talking aboutvulnerability, it opened the

(34:24):
door for people to say things ina way that was vulnerable, but
not confrontational.

SPEAKER_01 (34:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (34:31):
And that is one pattern I noticed in my family.
We're very non-confrontational.

SPEAKER_01 (34:37):
Same in money.
We do lots of things, but wedon't deal with the issues.
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (34:43):
Yeah, yeah.
That was verynon-confrontational and conflict
avoidant, which reasons why,very valid reasons why around
that.
So the tarot was such abeautiful invitation for things
to be said.
You know, the positive I want togive to non-confrontational is
consent-based.

(35:03):
You really, really, really needinvitation.
Speaking of visitations, youneed invitations to bring things
up.
And tarot is that invitation.
It is an invitation to be like,how do you see it?
Right?
What's your perspective on this?
But if you're not invited to doit, then it feels like you're
confronting that, you know.
I notice just doing so manyreadings in a row, a couple

(35:29):
different themes.
One of them is a lot of peopleknow what they need and they
know what's right.
And sometimes the readings werealmost a little anticlimactic
because they were just aconfirmation.
Sometimes I go into tarot and Iam like reveal something
mind-blowing to me.

(35:50):
I'm in this season of transitionand I keep pulling the moon and
I'm so annoyed.
I'm just like, no, give mesomething else.
Um, but that's the beauty oftarot, is it can be a
confirmation.
Also, the themes that I saw withpeople really wanting things to
be simple and then to being somuch more complex than they are.

(36:12):
And I really just want this tobe a black and white decision.
I really just want to know.
And it's like, no, this is somuch more complex.
So sometimes you leave a tarotreading feeling more open and
more uncomfortable with lessclarity because you're like, oh,
I've just been simplifying thisas well.
And then there are the tarotreadings, which I think is what

(36:35):
people think of, where they arekind of blown open and they are
told things that really go tothe core.
And this is something of I'd becurious to hear about this for
you too.
This is something I've justhoned as a therapist.
I don't know if all tarotreaders are like that.

(36:56):
But having been a therapist fora long time now, I can pull a
tarot card and get an intuitivefeeling and be like, oh, like
this is the core of it.
And I need to be really gentlearound this.
Does this ever happen for you?
Where you're like, oh, this isthe core of this.

SPEAKER_01 (37:15):
Yeah, I think it comes when like a pairing of
cards.
Usually I'll kind of do areading in stages, which is
probably common where we'relooking at this thing, and
there'll be two or three cardsfor that.
And then there will be likesomewhere in one of those

(37:36):
sections, there's a pairing thatreally feels powerful or more uh
illuminated than the othercards.
And yeah, I did a reading theother day, and lots of things
were like making sense andseemed to be feeling helpful.

(37:58):
And then the course of thatconversation brought this person
to a question that had been withthem for a while, something like
people had been recommendingthey do, that they create
because of the work that they'dbeen doing.
And I think they'd brushed itaside mostly because they

(38:19):
weren't that kind of creator orfor whatever reason.
But the two cards that came upwere judgment and the empress.
And normally I try to avoidquestions where it's like,
should I do this thing?
So it's not a yes or no card.
And it's also like, do you wantto do the thing?
But when judgment shows up asthis spiritual bullhorn with the

(38:44):
Empress about creativity, thenI'm like, well, spirit thinks
you should.
And then there was this reallybeautiful emotional moment for
this person because I thinkthere was just an untended area,
this lingering thing in thebackground that was finally
getting some light and someconversation and some support

(39:06):
and encouragement.
And so that's like kind of oneway I experience it where it
seems like the cards in acluster compared to what else is
going on, speak more loudly.

SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
I believe that the message finds it its way to you.
You can't miss anything intarot.
And that's helped me as a readerfor other people, but also just
reading my own cards.
It's like, I'm not gonna missanything.
Spirit, if you believe that,will find a way to let you know.
It will keep sending the samecard or it will send it in

(39:41):
different ways.
You can't miss it.

SPEAKER_01 (39:44):
I suppose you can put your blinders on in such a
way that you really try to shutthings out, like truly.
But if that's the case, you'renot getting a tarot reading.
Coming from tarot reading, youare curious and you want to
know.

SPEAKER_00 (39:58):
Okay, question for you.
This is related to group tarotreading.
If folks are listening now andthey're like, I want to read
with friends, or I want to havea group tarot experience, what
would you invite folks to do?

SPEAKER_01 (40:15):
Yeah, I would invite you to get creative with it and
to feel into the energy of thegroup.
If there are some people in thegroup who are really new to each
other, but some people who havelike a deeper relationship that
creates a little bit ofunevenness, let's say.

(40:36):
So you could just put your deckin a basket, let's say, and
people draw one when they comeinto the space.
If there's something else goingon, like it's not just about
tarot.
So it's an invitation to askother people what card they got
or what they think it means, orjust look at the card together.
Or you can have more of like asit-down and everyone pulls a

(40:58):
card and shares a little bitabout it, what they think it
means.
And if you're more of theexperienced tarot reader in the
room, you can offer something.
Or I've done some bacheloretteparties too, where it's a small
group and they rent airbnb, andthey just all hang out while
each of them gets a reading andlisten because they are close.

(41:20):
And so if you're, you know,wanting to practice or feeling
like most of your friends areinto tarot or tarot curious, and
you want to offer thisexploration together, then you
can just make it one-to-onereading, but in the group.
Yeah, and then there's probablya lot of other ways to do it

(41:41):
that would create connectionacross people.
I love your word invitation.
Let there be an appropriate,attuned invitation for the group
where they can get pulled alittle more out of their shell
without feeling too exposed.

SPEAKER_00 (42:00):
So offering that invitation, but also allowing
people to choose the lever ofvulnerability that feels right
for them.

SPEAKER_01 (42:07):
Yeah.
And also, of course, giving themzero trouble if they don't want
to participate and they justwant to watch everyone's on
their own journey, especially ifyou've come out of a more
extreme religious ideology, thenthere's a lot of like reluctance
around what tarot means or whatit can do, and just this feeling

(42:29):
that it's wrong or something.
And so someone like that may beon a different timeline with it.
So we just want to reallyrespect that.

SPEAKER_00 (42:36):
I can see your thoughtfulness and how you
facilitate and the creative waythat you think about groups and
facilitate groups in that way.
And one thing you shared got methinking, I am on a kick
learning about playpersonalities.
Have you ever heard about that?

SPEAKER_01 (42:50):
Oh, that's fun.

SPEAKER_00 (42:51):
It's been really healing for me to, it's from the
book.
Well, I first learned about itfrom the book Feel Good
Productivity.
The first chapter was all aboutplay and the play personalities,
and it was reallyrevolutionarily for me because
I'm not someone that reallyseeks out fun.
I don't drink, I don't reallyuse substances, and so I'm like,

(43:14):
well, what do I do for fun?
Like, I like read tarot and readbooks, and I talk to my plants.
And actually, there aredifferent types of play
personalities, and one of themis a director, and it is fun for
you to organize events tofacilitate groups.
And he smiled just now.
Do you feel seen?

SPEAKER_01 (43:35):
I feel very seen.
Yeah, when you have your sun,moon, and Mars in Capricorn and
your Saturn is in Virgo, you'regonna like be a little bit of a
director sometimes.
I don't like to be the stageperson necessarily, but I
certainly don't mindorchestrating or but I do have
this like I'm so bossy, or I trynot to be too bossy about it.

(43:58):
Bossy if you know if you'reright.
I mean, right.
It's like when you're in ahighly sensitive person who's
paying attention to what's goingon.
Is it bossy or just helpful?

SPEAKER_00 (44:11):
Yeah, is it bossy or am I just right?
And that's being bossy, I justknow what's best.
Wait, and you said you're a sun,moon, and what's your astrology?
Mars and Capricorn.
What's your rising?

SPEAKER_01 (44:23):
Taurus.

SPEAKER_00 (44:24):
Taurus.
Okay, okay.
It's real earthy over here.
Yeah, I love it.
Well, I also have a playpersonality, is we're gonna go
down this tangent.
It's gonna be healing for us.
I will tell you the eightdifferent play personality.
There's the collector, thecompetitor, the explorer, the

(44:46):
creator, the storyteller, thejoker, the director.
And I can't fix this word right.
It's kinesty, can the kinesty.
And so I am the collectorbecause when I moved recently, I
had over a carload of plants.
And I've been using thisself-care app and been recording

(45:09):
like the small joys of my day.
I get an unreasonable amount ofjoy taking care of my plants and
seeing how they're growing andseeing how their leaves are
doing and like talking to them.
I love repotting my plants.
I love clipping off their littlebabies and then rooting them and
seeing how they're rooting.

(45:29):
And then actually, my other playpersonality is the director.
I love hosting events.
And I actually have one comingup that's like yoga and chill.
I have I did a book swap thissummer for therapists and space
holders.
And I love it.
I love writing the eventdescription for it.

(45:51):
I love filling out the time.
I love seeing the registrationroles in.
I love being the host whenpeople come.
And it needs to be free, be theneed to be free because
otherwise it becomes work and Iwant it to be play, you know?
And then, of course, my otherplay personality is the
storyteller.
I did theater a lot as a kid.

(46:12):
I did theater actually, I didSpanish theater actually in
college.
So those are my three maintypes.
And I just feel so seen in thembecause I'm like, oh, I'm doing
something fun for me right now,and that's okay.
Do you have a sense of which youare?
I can read them again if you'dlike.

SPEAKER_01 (46:29):
I feel like I connected with almost all of
them, except maybe for thecompetitor.
I'm not like uh I'm not anathlete competitor, I'm not like
a talent competitor.
But if we're playing like aboard game or something, we all
love winning.
And I collect stuff from nature.
Like I found this feather, Ifound this seed pot, I found

(46:51):
this bone.
And all of those things are fun.
You know, I'm a writer, I'm astoryteller.
Like I haven't read the book andyou know more about it.
But just as you read them, Ifeel like, what if we are giving
ourselves doses of those kindsof fun a lot?
Now I'm thinking of like alittle habit tracker where it's
like, oh, I had somestorytelling fun today, or I had

(47:13):
some collecting fun today.

SPEAKER_00 (47:14):
And there's I think anyone who loves tarot is the
storyteller play personalitybecause there is an infinite
amount of stories that are beingshared through tarot.
I love sometimes just likepulling out cards and as if they
were like a sequence.
I got a little storyteller playthe other day.
I like pulled out cards and itwas like I think it was like a

(47:36):
knight of pentacles, and thenthere was a queen of cups in
there, and I was just liketelling a story from it.

SPEAKER_01 (47:43):
That was one of the things that drew me to tarot
really quickly as someone whowanted to be a writer since she
was young and did an MFA inwriting and struggled in my MFA
and then found tarot later.
I was like, oh, this is reallyhelpful.
Like it is a storytellingtechnology.
So if we're storytellers bytrade or passion, it's gonna

(48:05):
help you.

SPEAKER_00 (48:07):
Oh my gosh.
I was just thinking, who needsAI to think I have lots of
thoughts around that.
We can save that for a futuretopic.
Speaking of collecting, I'vebeen collecting articles that
have been helping me formopinions around it.
I did the play personalitieswith my family too.

(48:27):
And it was fun to spot otherpeople's play personalities, but
I had to just kind of uhplayfully tease you a little bit
because you're like, everyonelikes to win, right?
said the Capricorn Stellium.
Cause I'm like, I I mean, Idon't.
I will go to board games and Ihave to clarify.
I'm like, is this a board gamewhere we're gonna be serious
about doing it, or is it justhaving fun?

(48:48):
You'd probably, we couldprobably not do board games
together because I'd be becauseyou'd be like, all right, it's
your turn.
It's your turn, go.

SPEAKER_01 (48:55):
Well, I try not to be like, uh, I don't think I
could be wrong.
We could ask my partner or otherpeople, but um, I don't think I
get so hardcore in the game thatlike that's my main objective.
I'm just saying it's fun whenyou win.

(49:18):
It is fun.
Like, tell me that's not fun.
You don't have fun when you win.

SPEAKER_00 (49:22):
I I I love being right.
I love being right.
I like betting, actually.
But I don't gamble.
But if my partner's like, oh, Ican't find it, I'm like, if I
can, will you?
So I guess I kind of like beingright.
I don't like winning.
But my partner's really good atboard games.
So the reason I know that sheloved me is she never lets me

(49:46):
win.
Because I I so then when I dowin, it's like earned, you know.
Earned my Mars is in cancer.

SPEAKER_01 (49:54):
I'm like, oh yeah.
So it's like you don't likeyou're not aggressive with wins,
but we all have a Marsplacement, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 (50:03):
Yeah.
I like to win through comfort, Iguess.

SPEAKER_01 (50:08):
Knowledge, like your Gemini, like I know what's up.

SPEAKER_00 (50:12):
Yeah, it's more like a win, like being right.
Like, like with this friend, I'mjust like by September 9th,
something will come in.
Like, I am so confident it, youknow.
And if not, I'll buy you a copy.
That's a win-win, right?
Something good happens for heror she gets a copy.
We all win.
We're all gonna win.
We're all winners.

(50:32):
I'm glad we went down thisavenue of play personalities.
It felt playful for me.
It did.
Well, trust the Gemini to bringthat and bring it to your
partner.
Let's find out what yourpartner's play personalities
are.
It's a good conversation, butthis concept of play
personalities also relates tothis theme of invitations,
intimacy, deepening connection.

(50:55):
And I don't think we give enoughcredit to how play can deepen
our connections with others.
And play is also vulnerable.
I'm only gonna just go with astoryteller one because that's
what I'm most familiar with, butit's vulnerable to share
something.

SPEAKER_01 (51:13):
It requires you to surrender and be in the moment
and take down some of thosecontrol faculty because play is
opening the field of we're beingmore spontaneous and it is
vulnerable, which is I thinkanother reason why we do less of
it than perhaps we used to.

SPEAKER_00 (51:32):
But well, this is one of the culture things with
my family in Alaska, is we roasteach other.
Okay, I'll share this.
This is really fun.
You know, cards againsthumanity.

SPEAKER_01 (51:42):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (51:43):
Okay, so we have this game that was created
speaking in play.
Oh my gosh, who would have knownwhere to go through this today?
I'm so glad we did.
We have this game called What'sPaul's problem, which is my
dad's name.
So basically, we go around in acircle and whoever the person
is, yeah, what's their problem?

(52:05):
What's the catalyst for thegame?
What's the catalyst?
I mean, it's a way to roastpeople and to be funny, and it's
all anonymous.
So the way you win, I actuallywon most of them.
I'm gonna brag about that.

SPEAKER_01 (52:17):
Do you enjoy it?

SPEAKER_00 (52:18):
Well, okay, so I did.
Because I was right.
Part of this game is likegetting, I'm like, what is gonna
make them laugh?
But what is also what is likethe core and funny?
And this is a skill I have touse all the time as a therapist
and as a tarot reader of justlike, okay, how can I approach
this in a way that they're gonnafeel like they're in on it with

(52:40):
me and I'm not making fun ofthem.
So my cousin is engaged andgetting married, and so one of
my aunts, her problem was isthat her son's fiance is smarter
than her.
And so that was an example ofthat's her problem.
And so it's like digging at her,something like that.
So if it was my turn, they'd belike, What's Ariana's problem?

(53:01):
And everyone gets a piece ofpaper and they anonymously write
down, like, what's my problem?
And then they hand about to me,and then I read them and then I
pick the one that is my problemthat is actually my problem.

SPEAKER_01 (53:13):
Okay, it's interesting because it's like
confrontational, but there'speople showed up for the
invitation, they said yes.

SPEAKER_00 (53:22):
It's about a way of pointing out what everyone sees,
but no one's gonna say.
So one of my cousins has fivekids, and so his problem birth
control, right?
And he laughed around that.
It's a way to give a dig, likein a loving way.

SPEAKER_01 (53:38):
It's like a spin on cards against humanity.

SPEAKER_00 (53:41):
It is, it's basically, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (53:43):
Cool.
Well, I think this is a funplace to start to wind down.
You mentioned arrow spread.

SPEAKER_00 (53:53):
Yeah.
Spread around like how toincorporate more play.
That's good.
Let's do that.

SPEAKER_01 (54:00):
Do you feel like it's a good first one to just be
where can I play more?
Yeah.
Okay.
How can I play more?

SPEAKER_00 (54:06):
Oh, we're gonna draw for ourselves then.

SPEAKER_01 (54:11):
I can draw for you.
We can do it like beach ballsproblems, and I can just roll
for you and you draw for me.

SPEAKER_00 (54:19):
Okay, where does Cecily need more play?
I love this.
Oh, this is fun.
All right, I'll pull for younow.
What deck are you using?

SPEAKER_01 (54:27):
The Liberation Tarot.
Oh, why out for yes?
The Nine of Cups flew out foryou.

SPEAKER_00 (54:34):
That's interesting.
Okay, I want to hear what yourread on that.
It feels like thinking even moreexpansively about what play
looks like for you and lettingyourself dream.
And can dreaming be play foryou?
Can wishing be play for you?
Does that resonate at all?

SPEAKER_01 (54:53):
I think so, but I pulled this card from the
Lucille Clifton.
There's a Lucille Clifton poetrydeck, and last night I got the
card that said, Wake up, girl,you dreaming.
Like, oh, am I in a kind ofillusion?

SPEAKER_00 (55:11):
Oh, so maybe it's like stop dreaming and go and do
the thing.
Like, how would you play next?
Like, what was one of yourdreams?

SPEAKER_01 (55:23):
I think it's this struggle to believe in my ideas.
And I can like work through themand I finish things, but but
there's always some pain, whichI think is normal.
But in the middle, it's like,what if no one wants this?
It feels like no one wants this.

(55:45):
Maybe I should like stop.
Um that card made me feel like,oh, maybe I am overdreaming.
But I feel like sometimes thatperson in that card is like they
have a lot of belief.
They're like, look at all mycups.

SPEAKER_00 (56:00):
It could also be like pick a cup, which is a
little bit more seven of cupsvibes, but this is what the
card, I have light sears.
I'm going more off this vibe oflike it's a very joyful card,
lots of options.
I like that.

SPEAKER_01 (56:14):
I've been pulling seven of cups lately too.
But that one feels like it takesseven of cups and turns it into
a little more of like foolenergy.

SPEAKER_00 (56:24):
The other way I would look at this, because if
you've been getting seven ofcups, and I think, oh, is your
reading, is your message reallyabout the eight of cups right
now?
Like that journey from seven tonine.
Like, yes, it's about the nineof cups, but in order to get to
that nine of cups, is there someeight of cups energy?
Is there some cups you're havingto leave behind?

SPEAKER_01 (56:48):
Yeah, I think there's been some shadow work I
need to get into, but I'm not.
And I wonder if you have a goodrecommendation for that.
I feel like parts work is shadowwork too.
Um, and interestingly, theshadow is your card.
What?
Oh, what does that correlate to?
That is the devil.

(57:10):
Oh.
Yeah, so this feels like partswork.
This has a figure that'stethered to its double looking
in a mirror.
And so I don't even know thatit's necessarily like have fun,
Ariana, doing more shadow work,but I feel like now you have
this IFS piece you feel moretrained to use in your practice,

(57:35):
and also as a Gemini and justwho you are, and having read up
on play personalities that youcan bring that playfulness into
shadow work or IFS work.
I probably need to just book asession with you.

SPEAKER_00 (57:49):
Yeah.
Speaking of IFS, I I definitelyhave a part that's like the fun
police.
I've had to work a lot with apart that is like if you have
too much fun, you'll never stophaving fun.
I think this relates a littlebit to my neurodivergence and
also time and also my hate humandesign.

(58:11):
Like once I'm in something, Iwant to just be in that.
I just want to be immersed inthat.
And I have this part that'slike, nope, you can't have too
much fun, otherwise, you won'twant to go back to work.
Yeah.
And so I think it's aninvitation to look at those
shadow elements that are havemaybe some old beliefs around

(58:33):
fun that aren't accurateanymore.

SPEAKER_01 (58:36):
I imagine too that growing up on a homestead or
just having ancestors who had toreally create their own
subsistence, particularly inAlaska, really deal with some
challenging things in order tomake that happen.
That too much fun was dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 (58:54):
I think it also connects to more personally,
we've talked about this in thepast of just I never really had
a quote unquote problem withalcohol, but I definitely didn't
make the best choices when I wason it.
Should we pull um a card for thelisteners for the group?
I'll pull another one forlisteners for the group.

(59:14):
How can they bring in more play?
Oh.
I got Ten of Pentacles.
What did you get?

SPEAKER_01 (59:24):
I got the student of blades or page of swords.

SPEAKER_00 (59:28):
I always think of the page of swords as like the
student too.

SPEAKER_01 (59:34):
Go take your plate personality test.

SPEAKER_00 (59:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I will make sure to send thatthere is an actual quiz that you
can do around it.
Like go be curious around this.
Um, I love the interpretation ofPage of Swords as you know more
than you think you know, andthat there's value in being a
novice.
And I think that's such a heartof play, is you can't really be

(59:57):
an expert at play.
Yeah.
It's like anathetical.
Yes.
And then I'm feeling a littlestumped around the Ten of
Pentacles in this situation.
When I see the Ten of Pentacles,I think about legacies and an
invitation to think aboutlineage around what did play
mean for you as a kid?
How did your parents play?

(01:00:18):
How did your siblings play?
And is there something there tonotice?
Do you have any take on eitherof these cards?

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:25):
Yeah, I like that.
I would add to Ten of Pentacles.
My playful response is like toplay what's Pal's problem with
your family with family.
If they could survive it, he'ssad.
And then playing with the peoplearound you, playing with the
people in your network.
Ten of Pentacles is one of thosewhere I think it can be a family

(01:00:49):
lineage, but it can also be yourintergenerational friendships,
playing with your friends' kidsif you don't have your own kids
or your nieces and nephews, butalso play your grandmother's
favorite board game with her ifshe's around.
Gather the people who arealready here and play with them.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:10):
I have a really sweet story about that before we
sign off.
I used to, speaking of being thedirector, play personality, I
used to host big card gamemeetups and play cards.
And my grandma was a card shark.
And so one time before theevent, the friend that I was
hosting the event with, we madea little altar and we picked a

(01:01:34):
card that represented ourgrandma's.
This is very Ten of Pentacles.
To be like, yes, we're playingcards for fun, but we're playing
cards on our grandmas, and we'regonna have fun for our grandmas.
And this is the way that theirgrandma had fun.
And the friend's grandma wasmore of a nurturer, and my
grandma, she was so smart.
So you can bring in an altar ora ritual to your play too, as

(01:01:56):
well.
We covered a lot of fun stufftoday.
We did, we did.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:00):
Thank you.
Thank you.
I want to, before we sign off,just remind folks that you can
join my newsletter and you canjoin Ariana's wonderful
newsletter as well.
And you can also get my book,which we talked about in this
episode, which is gonna help youdeepen your tarot practice and

(01:02:21):
your creative practice and yourrelationship with yourself.
And Ariana, you have someinvitations open for people.
What would you like to share?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:31):
Yeah.
Well, also, next time we meet,I'm gonna text my mom after this
and find out the story behindBarb and your book.
What do I want folks to knowabout?
I just opened up sounding boardsessions, which are a blend of
witchy vibes and strategy whenit comes to the one thing that's

(01:02:53):
been keeping you up at nightaround your business, your copy,
your words, your message.
And it was really modeled bybeing in groups with people and
the power of having thatundivided, devoted attention to
something that you have beenthinking about for like years or

(01:03:15):
weeks or all that time.
So that's something I opened uptoday, but I'm sure it'll be
open whenever you release thistip.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:22):
But all the links for many of these things we
discussed will be in the shownotes.
And we so appreciate everyonelistening.
If you could share this episodewith someone who might enjoy it
or needs a little play or isdeveloping their tarot practice
or is also obsessed with Alaska,please share it, pass it along.

(01:03:43):
And Ariana, thank you so muchfor coming back.
I am looking forward to nexttime.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:50):
Yeah, thanks so much.
Talk soon.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:52):
Bye, everyone.