Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stacie (00:00):
And we're not just
talking about race here.
(00:02):
What if you get a big ol burlyguy with a bunch of tattoos
applying, and one of thosetattoos is a symbol for a gang,
or one that's common to get whenyou've done time in jail?
Because I think there's like 15symbols just for jail.
One being a teardrop next totheir eye, and another is like
the number five, like on a dice.
(00:22):
You know, it's like four dotsthat make up like a square, and
then there's one dot in themiddle.
And apparently, that symbolizesfour walls, and the middle dot
is the prisoner.
Kevin (00:32):
Wow, you sure know a lot
about prison tattoos, Stace.
Stacie (00:36):
Hey, I know some stuff.
You know, but seriously, whatwould you think if a guy who
looked like Jelly Roll appliedfor your nice rental property?
Kevin (00:44):
I think, hey, pretty
cool, Jelly Roll is living in
our apartments.
Welcome to your landlordresource podcast many moons ago.
When I started as a landlord, Iwas as green as it gets.
I may have had my real estatelicense, but I lack confidence
in the hands on experienceneeded when it came to dealing
(01:06):
with tenants, leases,maintenance, and bookkeeping.
After many failed attempts, fastforward to today.
Kevin and I have doubled ourdoors and created an organized,
professionally operated rentalproperty business.
Want to go from overwhelmed toconfident?
If you're an ambitious landlordor maybe one in the making, join
us as we provide strategies andteach actionable steps to help
(01:28):
you reach your goals and thelifestyle you desire.
All while building a streamlinedand profitable rental property
business.
This is your landlord resourcepodcast.
Stacie (01:42):
Hey everyone, welcome
back to Your Landlord Resource.
This is your go to podcast foreverything self managing
landlords need to know.
I am Stacie Casella and alwaysI'm joined here by my co host
Kevin Kilroy.
Kevin (01:57):
Hey there everybody.
This week's topic and it'sactually a really important one,
especially for landlordsnavigating the legal landscape
of tenant screening.
Because today we're discussingthe topic of Fair Housing laws
and how they intersect withcriminal background checks for
your rental applicants.
Stacie (02:17):
Yep, Kevin's right, this
is an important topic.
Kevin (02:20):
Whoa.
Whoa, slow down Want to makesure I have that recorded, Kevin
is right.
Okay, go ahead.
Stacie (02:25):
Oh lord.
All right Yeah, moving on.
So there are a lot ofmisconceptions out there about
how landlords can use criminalbackground checks when
evaluating prospective tenants.
If you're not careful, you couldinadvertently violate Fair
Housing laws, which could leadto significant legal
consequences.
(02:46):
So, Fair Housing laws are inplace to prevent discrimination
and there's a delicate balancebetween protecting your property
and your community and avoidingdiscrimination in your tenant
screening process.
But don't worry, we will breakit all down today so you can
feel confident you're complyingwith the law while still
protecting your investment.
(03:08):
So let's start off by talkingabout Fair Housing laws.
There are seven federallyprotected classes under the Fair
Housing Act.
These include race, color,religion, sex, national origin,
disability, and familial status.
Some states and localjurisdictions add more
(03:28):
protections, like maritalstatus, sexual orientation, or
even source of income.
Now, when it comes to the FairHousing Act in criminal
background checks, things get alittle interesting.
Because the Fair Housing Actdoesn't specifically mention
criminal background checks.
But HUD, which is the USDepartment of Housing and Urban
(03:52):
Development, issued guidance in2016 on how landlords should
handle criminal backgroundchecks.
They made it clear that ablanket policy of refusing to
rent to anyone with a criminalrecord could violate the Fair
Housing Act due to disparateimpact.
And disparate impact means thateven if a landlord doesn't
(04:15):
intend to discriminate, theirpolicy could disproportionately
affect certain protectedclasses.
For example, HUD pointed outthat African Americans and
Hispanics are arrested,convicted, and incarcerated at
rates that are higher than theirshare of the population.
So, if you have a policy thatautomatically denies anyone with
(04:36):
a criminal record, you couldunintentionally discriminate
against them by way of race.
Kevin (04:42):
And let me point that out
that this is coming from HUD and
not from us.
It's not just about intent, it'sabout the actual impact of your
policies.
So, landlords need to be carefulto make sure their criminal
background check policy isjustified and doesn't unfairly
impact any protected class.
(05:03):
Basically, landlords just can'thave a blanket, no criminal
records policy.
They need to have a legitimatereason for denying someone based
on their criminal history.
One that's based on the actualbehavior of the applicant, not
just their record on its own.
So, this is where theindividualized assessments come
(05:23):
in.
HUD does recommend that insteadof automatically disqualifying
an applicant with a criminalrecord, landlords should conduct
an individualized assessment todetermine whether the criminal
history poses a legitimate riskto the property, other tenants,
or the neighborhood.
You'd want to consider factorslike the nature and the severity
(05:46):
of the crime.
How long ago did the crimeoccur?
What has the applicant donesince then?
Like have they beenrehabilitated?
Have they had stable employmentor housing?
What was the age of theapplicant when the crime was
committed?
And whether the crime wasviolent or non violent?
You see, they want you tounderstand that by vetting your
(06:07):
applicants and digging down intotheir background, is important
because not all crimes arecreated equal, right?
And some offenses have little orno bearing on a person's ability
to be a good tenant.
consider someone with anonviolent drug offense from 15
years ago.
That shouldn't carry the sameweight as a violent felony
(06:28):
committed last year.
So basically, a one size fitsall policy just won't cut it
anymore.
Stacie (06:34):
Nope.
And that makes sense when youthink about it.
All right, let's talk about timeframe.
HUD recommends that landlordstake into account how long ago
the crime occurred.
They feel that the older theconviction, the less relevant it
is to the tenant's currentability to be a responsible
renter.
And I get it.
(06:54):
You need to give people thebenefit of the doubt in some
cases.
It is possible for people tochange over time, and a
conviction from decades ago mayhave no relevance to their
current behavior.
So do your best to be thoughtfulabout how far back you go when
considering criminal history.
Now, I want to address differentkinds of crimes, because another
(07:18):
big question that landlordsoften ask is, are there certain
types of crimes that I shouldalways consider when screening
tenants?
And are there others that I canignore?
So let's clear this one up.
And here's one problem.
The HUD guidance doesn't givelandlords a specific list, but
it does indicate that violentcrime or those that pose a risk
(07:41):
to the safety and security ofothers should carry more weight
than a nonviolent or a pettycrime.
So violent felonies, sexualoffenses, or crimes involving
damage to property or fraud arethe types of things that might
be relevant in a rentaldecision.
But nonviolent offenses, such asminor drug possession or traffic
(08:04):
violations may not be relevant.
It's also important to note thatarrest records alone aren't
sufficient grounds for denial.
An arrest without a convictiondoes not prove guilt.
HUD has been clear that denyingsomeone based solely on an
arrest that did not lead to aconviction could be considered
discriminatory.
(08:25):
So, landlords, you need to focusonly on convictions when making
your decisions.
Kevin (08:31):
And yeah, that has been
and should be the focus anyway,
right?
I mean, way back when, ourapplications had a section that
asked if the applicant had everbeen convicted of a felony
crime, and our joke always was,convicted?
No.
So now that section I believehas been removed from most of
the California rentalapplications.
(08:54):
So, here's a tip.
If you are still using oldapplications, you might want to
take the time to get new updatedones that are specific to your
state and even locality ifrequired.
I mean, there have been severalupdates to applications, leases,
addendums, and forms toimplement new laws and
regulations.
So, as we often stress to youguys, please make sure your
(09:16):
application, forms, and leasesare all up to date.
We know you can get applicationsanywhere, like Zillow or your
landlord management software so,just make sure they are state
specific and have been updatedwith the most recent laws.
EZ Landlord Form does everythingstate specific, so you should be
good to go if you have anaccount with them.
(09:38):
If you want to set up a freeaccount, we will link them in
the show notes for you.
Okay, so now that we've coveredthe basics, let's talk about how
landlords can create a policythat complies with Fair Housing
laws while still protectingtheir property.
And it all starts with having awritten policy.
This policy should outline thespecific types of criminal
(09:58):
behavior that will be consideredand the factors that will be
taken into account during anindividualized assessment.
And once again, as with all yourpolicies, transparency is key.
I mean, we've discussed creatingyour standard operating
procedures or SOPs numeroustimes on the show, and this is
(10:18):
just another example of why theyare so important.
Your standard operatingprocedures are where you create
policies and rules about howyour business is handled.
You are essentially making thedecision in advance so that
anyone who works with or for youcan make sure that the business
is operated in a consistentmanner.
And this is one policy whereconsistency needs to be applied
(10:41):
to all applicants.
If you apply your policydifferently to different
applicants based on their race,national origin, or any other
protected class, you could befacing a Fair Housing complaint.
And you guys, it's also a goodidea to provide applicants with
an opportunity to explain theircriminal history.
Maybe they've completed arehabilitation program or
(11:04):
they've maintained steadyemployment for years since their
conviction.
Giving applicants a chance toprovide context shows that
you're being fair andreasonable.
And there isn't really aspecific form out there that we
can suggest you use.
Maybe this is a time where yousit down and have a heart to
heart or just ask them toprovide a letter explaining
(11:25):
their criminal history and, ifavailable, some sort of proof
that they went through a programor paid rent on time for the
last X number of years.
I mean you kind of get the pointhere.
Stacie (11:37):
Yeah, that's a good
idea.
I mean everyone deserves achance to explain themselves and
if you feel this person is not agood fit for your unit, then
just move on.
Oh and the episode on creatingstandard operating procedures is
episode 6, so we'll make sure welink that in the show notes for
you.
But let me talk about whatshould be included in your
(11:59):
written policy with regards tocriminal backgrounds.
You're going to want to addressthe following areas.
Directly Related Convictions.
So the policy should focus onwhether a criminal conviction is
directly related to theapplicant's ability to be a good
tenant and not a threat toothers or your property.
Mitigating Information.
(12:20):
The policy should allowapplicants to present mitigating
information such asrehabilitation efforts or steady
employment.
Written notice.
Your policies should providewritten notice to applicants of
their right to presentmitigating information.
Criminal History Accuracy.
(12:41):
The policy should ensure thatthe criminal history information
is accurate and that it's notoutdated, incorrect, or
falsified.
And Consideration Order ofAcceptance or Denial.
Your policy should delayconsidering criminal history
information until after anapplicant's financial and other
qualifications have beenverified.
(13:03):
And the reason why you want todo this is because if they don't
qualify financially, you cannotaccept them based on that and
not even have to worry about thewhole criminal background
information.
You also want to make sure thatyour written policies regarding
vetting, accepting and denyingrental applications is available
for everyone should they ask forit.
(13:26):
And lastly, use an AdverseAction Notice.
The policy should includeproviding an adverse action
notice to applicants if theirhousing is denied based on a
consumer report.
Now this can be your creditreport, this could also be a
criminal background check, itcan also be an eviction report.
And when you send this out,sometimes it's a good idea to
(13:49):
include the criminal backgroundreport as well as your policies
along with it, so they canunderstand how you came to your
conclusion of denying theirapplication to rent.
All right, you guys I want totake a minute to talk about
common mistakes that landlordsmake when it comes to using
criminal background checks.
Now, again, whether you do or donot decide to run formal
(14:10):
reports, you must be consistentand run them on everyone, not
just whom your gut gives youthat vibe about.
And for our criminal backgroundchecks, as well as the credit
checks, we like to useTenantAlert.
And here's our little spiel onthem.
TenantAlert provides the onlyinstant tenant screening service
with what they call LeaseGuarantee.
(14:32):
Which means they rate anapplicant on a scale of a
hundred and offer a leaseguarantee up to$10,000 of
protection against damages, lostrent, or legal fees.
And that guarantee starts at$199a year.
And that's for their highestrated report on a client of a
hundred.
And that can be paid by you orthe tenant.
(14:55):
I mean, think about that for$200bucks, you get$10,000 of
insurance on your tenant.
Kevin (15:01):
You know, that's not bad.
I mean, especially if you're ina position where you're having
trouble finding someone to rentyour place and you start to get
that desperate feeling.
And you know, we've all beenthere where you get someone who
applies who might not beperfect, but you really want to
get the place rented and moveon.
So you kind of panic and acceptsomeone who doesn't meet all
(15:22):
your criteria.
And usually the tenant ends upbeing a problem on some level.
But with this lease guaranteethat TenantAlert offers, you can
have them pay, pay yourself or,you know, meet somewhere in the
middle and get insurance tocover your butt, you know, just
in case.
Stacie (15:38):
Yeah, exactly.
All right, so let me finishquickly, so I can talk about the
mistakes people make.
You know guys, with TenantAlert,you can select from a number of
reports including creditbackground checks, national wide
criminal checks, and nationwideeviction checks.
You have the option to add up tofour applicants in one order, so
you can screen multipleroommates.
(16:00):
You can pay for the creditscreening yourself, or you can
send a link to your applicantfor them to pay for the service.
And I can definitely say thatTenantAlert has very easy to
read reports with summaries tohelp you determine if the
applicant meets yourqualifications or not.
You know, in episode 49, wherewe did a podcast teaching you
(16:20):
all how to read a credit report.
It's a TenantAlert report thatwe work through on the episode.
So we'll link that episode aswell as more information about
TenantAlert in our show notes.
All right, back to whatlandlords can do wrong in their
criminal background checkreports.
And as mentioned earlier, theworst mistake you could make is
to have a blanket policy thatautomatically denies anyone with
(16:43):
a criminal record.
Again, this can lead todisparate impact discrimination,
and it's a surefire way to getyourself in legal trouble.
Also as mentioned before, is toconsider arrests that did not
lead to conviction.
You guys, this is a huge no no.
An arrest alone does not proveanything, and denying someone
(17:04):
based on an arrest record is aviolation of Fair Housing laws.
And the next one should beobvious, maybe not for some, but
landlords need to avoid treatingapplicants differently based on
their race, ethnicity, or anyprotected classes.
If you're more lenient with someapplicants and stricter with
others, you're opening yourselfup to a discrimination claim.
(17:27):
And we're not just talking aboutrace here.
What if you get a big ol burlyguy with a bunch of tattoos
applying, and one of thosetattoos is a symbol for a gang,
or one that's common to get whenyou've done time in jail?
Because I think there's like 15symbols just for jail.
One being a teardrop next totheir eye, and another is like
(17:47):
the number five, like on a dice.
You know, it's like four dotsthat make up like a square, and
then there's one dot in themiddle.
And apparently, that symbolizesfour walls, and the middle dot
is the prisoner.
Kevin (17:59):
Wow, you sure know a lot
about prison tattoos, Stace.
Stacie (18:03):
Hey, I know some stuff.
You know, but seriously, whatwould you think if a guy who
looked like Jelly Roll appliedfor your nice rental property?
Kevin (18:12):
I think, hey, pretty
cool, Jelly Roll is living in
our apartments.
Stacie (18:16):
Yeah, listen, I'm not a
fan of tattoos, especially ones
on the face and neck, but hey,if the tenant qualifies, what
are you going to do?
If they're your best applicant,you're going to accept them.
Another thing landlords can getin trouble for is going too far
back in an applicant's criminalhistory.
Again, the further back theconviction, the less relevant it
is.
(18:37):
HUD recommends that landlordsfocus on more recent convictions
that are directly related to thesafety of the property and the
other tenant.
For example, in California,landlords can only consider
convictions within the lastseven years.
If an individual was convictedbut has completed their sentence
more than seven years ago, thisinformation cannot be used
(18:58):
against them when they'reapplying for housing.
And the last mistake landlordsmake is not giving the applicant
a chance to explain theircriminal history.
If you're too rigid with yourpolicy and you don't allow for
any exceptions or anyexplanations, you could be seen
as unfair and discriminatory.
Kevin (19:17):
And a side note here, if
you decide to deny an
application based on informationin a criminal background report,
as Stacie mentioned earlier, youmust provide the applicant with
what is called an Adverse ActionNotice.
Which is basically a formalnotice of why you denied the
applicant to rent from you.
This notice should include thereason for the rejection and the
(19:39):
applicant's right to receive acopy of the report.
All right one more thing thatyou all must really pay
attention to is the laws of yourstate and the local government
laws on criminal backgroundchecks.
Because when it comes to statelaws, they can vary widely.
So, while the Federal FairHousing Act sets the baseline
(20:00):
for preventing discrimination,many states and local
jurisdictions have additionallaws that landlords need to
follow when screening tenants,especially regarding criminal
background checks.
And those laws can be evenstricter than the federal
regulations.
Some cities have ban the boxlaws, which prevent landlords
(20:20):
from asking about criminalhistory in a rental application.
And actually, those quoteunquote ban the box laws are
gaining traction around thecountry.
These laws generally prohibitlandlords from asking about
criminal history on the initialrental application.
Instead, they can only conduct acriminal background check after
(20:41):
the applicant has passed otheraspects of the screening
process.
You know, like credit and incomeverification.
These laws were initiallyfocused on employment
applications, but now manyjurisdictions are applying them
to housing as well.
So, for instance, states likeCalifornia, Oregon, I believe
Illinois, as well as cities likeSeattle have adopted these type
(21:04):
of laws.
And here in California,landlords are allowed to
consider criminal history, butwe can do so only after making a
conditional offer to theapplicant.
And I will tell you that we pulla criminal background report on
every applicant regardless, andnot once have we had one come
back with anything.
(21:25):
The main thing we're lookingfor, honestly, is if someone is
convicted of a sexual crime.
And thankfully we have not hadto deal with that as of yet.
But I should say that these lawsare designed to give people with
criminal records a fair shot athousing.
Studies have shown that when thelandlords see a criminal history
up front they're often inclinedto reject the application
(21:47):
outright.
Ban the box laws try to mitigatethat bias by delaying when the
criminal background check can bedone.
Stacie (21:55):
And you guys, I see both
sides here.
And all we're trying to do todayis make sure that landlords are
aware that violating these lawscan lead to significant
penalties.
For instance, in places with banthe box laws, if you reject an
applicant because of theircriminal history before you're
allowed to check it, you couldface fines, legal action, and
(22:18):
even a civil rights complaint.
And that is something youabsolutely do not want to deal
with.
It's also important to note thatsome states and cities have gone
even further than the ban thebox law.
New Jersey, for example, has theFair Chance and Housing Act
which not only bans landlordsfrom asking about criminal
(22:38):
history on an application, butalso limits the types of
criminal records that can beconsidered once you're allowed
to look at them.
Under New Jersey's law,landlords cannot consider
arrests that didn't lead toconvictions, expunged or pardon
convictions, or even juvenilerecords.
They can only consider seriouscriminal offenses.
(23:00):
And even then, there are limitson how far back they can go.
Like we said, in California, youcan only go back seven years.
Same goes in Washington state.
Now, I think it's worth notingthat the Fair Credit Reporting
Act, also known as the FCRAapplies in all 50 states and
(23:21):
mandates a seven yearrestriction on reporting certain
background check informationlike civil suits, civil
judgments, and arrest records.
The Fair Credit Reporting Actdoes not have a timeline
restriction on criminalconvictions.
This is why you need to know ifyour state or local authority
does.
Another example is Illinois,which passed the Just Housing
(23:45):
Amendment in Cook County.
It requires landlords to performan individualized assessment for
any criminal conviction beforerejecting a tenant based on
their criminal record.
Similar to HUD's guidance, itrequires landlords to consider
factors like the nature of theoffense, how long ago it
occurred, and whether theapplicant has been
(24:06):
rehabilitated.
And in many cases, theseindividualized assessments are
required by law, not justrecommended best practices.
If a state or local law requiresit, landlords who fail to
conduct a thorough assessmentcould be violating the law, even
if they think they're complyingwith federal guidelines.
Kevin (24:27):
Now, of course, not every
state has these additional
restrictions.
In some places, landlords stillhave broad discretion to
consider criminal records, aslong as they comply with federal
Fair Housing laws.
But even in those states,landlords should be cautious.
Remember, the Fair Housing Actstill applies, and the risk of
(24:48):
disparate impact discriminationis real.
Stacie (24:51):
Yeah, that's a good
point.
Kevin (24:53):
And just because your
state doesn't have specific
protections around criminalbackground checks, doesn't mean
your city or county won't.
Local ordinances can sometimesbe stricter than state law, so
landlords need to stay up todate on the laws that apply to
their rental properties.
And let's not forget laws changeall the time.
(25:13):
I mean, states and cities areconstantly updating their
housing laws, especially as moreattention is given to criminal
justice reform.
That means us landlords need tostay informed about new laws
that might affect their tenantscreening practices.
And a great way to stay informedis to regularly check with your
local housing authority or yourlegal counsel.
(25:36):
There are also landlordassociations and online
resources to keep landlordsupdated on any new regulations.
Stacie (25:43):
Yeah, you know we've
said this before, joining your
local rental housing associationis a really good idea.
And this here is another exampleof why.
Because as laws are presented tothe government, oftentimes those
rental housing associations willreach out to let members know so
people can vote for or againstsomething.
(26:04):
And a prime example is here inCalifornia.
We have a rent control bill onthe ballot this November, and I
have been able to follow itsprogress from information sent
out in the mail over email, andin newsletters too.
Kevin (26:18):
Yeah, we need to make
sure we read that thoroughly and
vote the right way on that one.
I mean, the way it's written iskind of confusing and appears to
help tenants when in reality,history has shown over and over
these rent control laws havedone the exact opposite.
Okay, so with all this in mind,let's talk about how landlords
can create screening policiesthat are fair, compliant, and
(26:41):
still protect their rentalproperty.
And what it really comes down tois having a well thought out
written policy, that complieswith federal, state, and local
laws.
Make sure your policy includesan individualized assessment of
any applicant with a criminalhistory.
And ensure that you're onlyconsidering relevant factors,
(27:03):
you know, such as the nature ofthe offense and how much time
has passed.
And don't forget transparency.
Your screening policy should beclearly communicated to
applicants up front so they knowwhat to expect.
If you need to deny someonebased on their criminal record,
explain why, and make sureyou're providing them with any
(27:25):
rights they have under the law.
You know, like the right todispute errors on their
background check.
As we consistently emphasize,document, document, document.
You want to always keep thoroughdocumentation on every decision
you make.
If you're ever challenged on adenial, you'll want to have a
clear record showing that youfollowed your policy
(27:47):
consistently and in a nondiscriminatory way.
The bottom line is that FairHousing laws and criminal
background checks can be tricky,but with the right approach
landlords can protect themselvesfrom legal risks while treating
all applicants fairly.
I mean, it's all about having aclear, consistent, and
(28:08):
transparent policy.
Stacie (28:10):
Yep, that's right.
And remember, if you're everunsure about your screening
process It's always a good ideato consult with an attorney who
specializes in landlord tenantlaw.
It really is better to be safethan sorry.
All right, you guys, we're aboutready to wrap this up.
But before we go, I want to giveyou some resources where you can
(28:31):
learn more about criminalbackground checks.
And we'll link all of these inthe show notes for you.
The first one is for FairHousing information, you can go
to the website for the USDepartment for Housing and Urban
Development.
Now this is your primary sourcefor federal Fair Housing laws
and regulations, including HUD's2016 guidance on the use of
(28:53):
criminal background checks.
Second is the Fair Housing Act.
Now this page from theDepartment of Justice outlines
the full text of the FairHousing Act and includes
information on the enforcementof Fair Housing laws.
Third, if you want to learn moreabout your local landlord tenant
laws, check out websites foryour state and your local
(29:16):
housing authorities.
Many states and cities havehousing authorities that provide
updated information on localregulations, such as that ban
the box law or additionalprotected classes.
And if you're looking to getcertified in Fair Housing, we
can recommend the Fair HousingInstitute.
If you use our code YLR2024,they will give you 15 percent
(29:41):
off any course purchase.
And lastly, there is a websitecalled the Equal Rights Center.
For$50, you can take a coursecalled Best Practices for
Ensuring That Criminal RecordsScreening and Policies and
Practices Comply With FairHousing Requirements.
And per their website, thiscourse will give housing
(30:04):
providers the best practices forensuring that their housing
related criminal recordsscreening policies and practices
align with the Fair Housing Actand recent guidance from HUD.
Again, we're going to link allthat information in our show
notes for you, so you can justtap and go.
Alrighty, that is our show fortoday.
(30:25):
And we hope you now have alittle better understanding
about Fair Housing and criminalbackground checks.
And hey guys, if you like whatyou hear on this podcast, would
you do us a favor and subscribeor follow on your favorite
podcast platform?
That way our episodes will bethere waiting for you each week
so you can enjoy all we have tosay about landlording and owning
(30:47):
rental properties.
And we would be superappreciative if you could leave
us a kind review.
Those reviews really help otherlandlords, like you, know that
we are the real deal andhopefully they'll listen to.
Links to review sites are in ourshow notes.
If you'd like to download any ofthe free forms that we offer, or
(31:07):
if you want to sign up for ourweekly newsletter, you can
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YouTube.
And we also have a privateFacebook group as well.
You can find all the links inour show notes.
Thanks again for taking time outof your day to listen to our
(31:30):
podcast.
Until next time, you've gotthis, landlords.