Between the Courts: A Conversation on Golf, Tennis and Education with Ray

Join us as we discuss the rewarding yet demanding world of being a teacher and coach at Great Oak High School. Ray takes us on his educational journey, from his bachelor's at Cal State Fullerton, to his master's at Azusa Pacific. Listen as he discusses the importance of teaching as a learning process itself and delve deeper into the individualistic nature of tennis. The pivotal role sports play in shaping our character becomes evident during our conversation.

As we close this engaging episode, Ray offers valuable insights from his tennis coaching and playing experiences. He shares how to master a good backhand stroke (which he is the King at :), using your opponent's pace to your advantage, and how the mental strength tested in tennis matches and tournaments is unmatched. 

Lastly, we discuss the mission to keep tennis alive amidst the growing popularity of Pickleball (haha). Join us for this enlightening chat, perfect for all tennis enthusiasts and aspiring players.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
You are listening to your League Tennis Podcast with
your host, anthony Radonia.
Anthony is an avid weekendwarrior tennis player, just like
you.
Every week, he'll beinterviewing new and exciting
guests that will not only differin experience and skill level,
but also in age and physicalability.
Your League Tennis Podcast isabout making you a better tennis

(00:26):
player, whether you're abeginner or have been playing
for years, in your 20s or inyour 60s.
Now here is your host, anthonyRadonia.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
All right, Ray.
Well, we're live.

Speaker 4 (00:42):
Sounds great.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
We're good.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
I love it.
So thank you so much for coming.
I really appreciate it.
So I forget you're in Murrietaor Temecula.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
I live in.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Temecula.
You are Whereabouts.

Speaker 4 (00:52):
In Redhawk, the Redhawk area.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Oh, you're Redhawk.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
Close to the casino.
Close to Great Oak.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Oh, okay, and close to the golf course.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
Very close to two or three golf courses.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
Play a mall, Play to make it a creek all the time.
Journey is one of the bestcourses I've ever is the best
course I've ever played Lowjourney.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Journey is Pachengas.
Yeah, it is Great.
So I've only seen it.
From when we've stayed atPachengas Hotel, I've only seen
it.
And the greens look amazing.
Like they keep it so nice, thelike everything looks immaculate
.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
Back in the hills they have either recreated or
just the old.
A lot of the stuff from thetribe Really great.
And there's one hole that'spretty close.
We went on a tour back there.
All the teachers are Great Oak.
We saw the Great Oak.
It's amazing place and it'sright by hole number 10.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
What is that?

Speaker 4 (01:46):
It's a, it is a great .
It's a massive tree Six, seven,800 years old.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Oh my gosh, it's.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
it's not as tall as it is just big Really.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
So it's a it was really interesting.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
Interesting tour.
They took us through thereservation a little bit, but
just, and the golf course itself.
Just a couple of holes there,just.
There's one overlooking thewhole valley, a couple
overlooking the whole valley.
Just a great shape, fun to play.
What you do is you get themembership or to make it a creek
.
Okay, so you get some dollarsand it gives you like four or

(02:23):
five free rounds to make it acreek, plus a free round journey
.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Oh, wow, yeah, seriously, how much is journey
if I don't have a member, if 120, 120?

Speaker 4 (02:32):
more than that, maybe two to something.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Really yeah, oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
So I'm not sure I can't pay for the real rounded
journey, but I can get that freeround.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Absolutely.
Oh, that's so cool.
I got to do that, yeah, Cause Iwould love to play a journey.
I haven't been playing a longtime.
You know we played.
What was it when Paul set that?
Tournament up a couple of yearsago.
Oh, was that prior to COVID?
It might have been.
It might have been prior toCOVID.
Huh yeah, that's how time flies.
So it's probably a good fouryears.
That's probably the last time Iplayed a course.
Oh shit, that's pretty nuts.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
I when COVID hit.
I mean I've played.
My parents taught me a longtime ago.
I took a few lessons when I wasa teenager, Always had fun
playing golf and I can hit agood golf ball.
But I always had trouble withshort game.
When COVID hit, I would justjump onto Redhawk, whole number
10, whole number 14.
I had nothing else to do so Ijust would sneak on and just

(03:24):
chip all around the course, allaround the greens, and I'd do
that for hours and it was crazythat like when you practice
something, you get better.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
You get better at it, and so my short game was so
much better, so much better.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
It used to be a.
It'd be a catastrophe anytime Iget near a green.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
Now I can, now I'm doing okay.
So I'm shooting the eightiesnow.
I mean before it was eightiesbetween 80 and 180, just
depending how bad the short gamewas Well, you know what my
problem?

Speaker 2 (03:49):
well, my short game.
Obviously I can improve, butI've always been bad off the tee
, like I'm losing balls, and,you know, once I get in the
fairway.
I've sort of been able to be alittle conservative, like minded
, and so I've always been prettygood If I can place the ball
200 yards out in the middle ofthe fairway, like I might you
know, if you gave me one, thatone stroke, like without you

(04:11):
know, um, letting me hit out ofbounds, like I can probably
bogey that, that hole for sure,um, but it's the off the tee
stuff I'll, I'll put it out outof bounds every time.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
Yeah, well, the longer the hole, the better I
did.
Sometimes I was okay on the tee.
I mean I'm not.
I mean I played with Mike, vicand Paul and those guys just
bombed the ball.
I mean, I'm not that big a guy,I don't have to ball that far
but I can hit it yeah.
And I always thought, like oneof the things where tennis or
golf, I have hand-eyecoordination, it's a ball, I hit
it.
I don't, I don't.

(04:42):
Never took that muchinstruction, I just see a ball,
I do what they see on TV and seewhat happens.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
I mean, I don't have a short game with my touch, but
imagine that practice.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, there's what's comparable in tennis to the
short game the whole putting fordough.
What is it?
It's, yeah, driving for show.
Putting for dough, isn't thatthe expression?

Speaker 4 (05:03):
That is.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
So I can't think of anything comparable in tennis,
where there's the putting fordough, I guess Is it the serve?

Speaker 4 (05:09):
Yeah, I can see that it might be.
I also think just finishingpoints, and you know, when I'm
playing my, my strokes, I canalways hit a tennis ball and
I've got my forehand or mybackhand, as I'm playing, more
going back into it because I'vewith my health and other issues.
I haven't been as playing asmuch over the last 10 years.

(05:31):
But now coming in working allthrough the point and then
getting that last shot andputting it somewhere, that
always that's like the shortgame.
That's you know you work all the, you work your tail off to get
a good it's a good situation.
You got to finish the point.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
And that could be.
No, that's so right, cause Iwas just having a conversation
with someone the other day.
It's like we're playing thepoint to get that one ball and
then, when we get that one ball,we're not, we're not doing
anything with it, and sometimesI find myself hitting and
running back to the baseline.
It's like what am I doing?
This is, this is the one ball.
I've been hitting the last sixshots for Right and I don't know

(06:09):
why I'm retreating.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
Yeah, Once you retreat especially on hard
courts out here it gets a goodplayer.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Sometimes you're retreat, you're in trouble, yep.

Speaker 4 (06:18):
I like going.
I mean I'm, I'm basically acounter punching baseline.
Yeah, and there was.
There was a point in the 80sand late 80s, early 90s.
I was a servant volleyer allthe time come in.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
That's really as.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
I saw yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
I'd come in all the time and I had some pretty
decent volleys, but that's thatchanged as I got older.
I think the racket technologieschange that it's harder to come
in and people can hit passingshots from all different angles
pretty quickly, Totally.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
With a string and racket.
You're right.

Speaker 4 (06:50):
I mean you've got to have a massive game, massive
serve to be behind it.
And even if you have a massiveserve, then the ball is coming
back that much quicker.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
I mean so the points last longer and yeah, so that's.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
That's changed a little bit but, I think you're
right.
When you have the ability tobend the ball, put more dip on
it like, I think, the older era,the heavier rackets, the
rackets that weren't so likepliable or bendable.
I think you're hitting more ofa flat return or a slice return
and obviously you can do more atthe net with that.
But if they're hitting thatdipper, obviously it's it's

(07:24):
tougher.
You want to stay back.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
It's tough and they can hit it from all angles.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:28):
Just get it.
You know, the athleticism ofthe game has changed.
Yeah, Maybe it's because I'vegotten slower.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
The athleticism has changed, but I was slow already.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
I always thought, like when I was younger.
I always thought, well, I'mjust going to keep battling.
All these, all these reallyquick guys will slow down to me.
I didn't realize I would slowdown more than they did.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:48):
Yeah, that was frustrating.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Well, that's, that was good already, but I want to
go a little backwards here andstart out a little more about
you.
So I know you're teachingtennis at high school.
You've been doing that for awhile and that's great oak high
school.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
I've been a great oak for eight, for 18.
This is my 18th year.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Is it both boys and girls?

Speaker 4 (08:10):
Both boys.
I'm a high school teacher,that's, I'm a teacher first,
coach second.
I teach right now I'm a socialstudies teacher.
Right now I'm teaching alleconomics, all day long.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (08:19):
I used to teach.
I've taught a lot of US history, a lot of government, from the
very start, and I tell this, Iwas been telling this story to
my, to my classes when I becauseI'm just getting them this last
week, when, I I was brought upin an age if you want to be a
teacher, you had to do somethingelse, and so he had to coach

(08:42):
this, coach that I was, and youhad to do other stuff on campus.
And so I mean I thought, okay,well, I'm going to be a social
studies teacher, tennis coach Ican also coach basketball or
other things.
Well, the first studentteaching meeting that I went to,
there's all these studentteachers and they're all going

(09:03):
to be assigned somewhere inOrange County to student teach,
and I'm realizing there's a tonof people here.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
And I knew enough about my friends who were still
teachers at the high school.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
My mom's an art teacher.
I do know about teachers thatsocial studies teachers teach
forever.
If you want to get a job, teachEnglish, teach, teach science,
teach foreign language.
But social studies teachersteach forever.
So, the question was is thereany student teacher here can
teach economics?
And everybody, like everybody,looked around scared.

(09:37):
Yeah, I took major in politicalscience.
I had some one economics classin college.
I got an A in it, but I don'treally understand it.
But I looked around and I justraised my hand.
I'll do it Because I realized,you know if you put yourself in
a position where your skills arewanted.
So I'm just a couple ofchapters ahead of the kids.

(09:58):
But you want to learn something, teach it.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Oh, without a doubt.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
So yeah, I was teaching economics and from
student teaching on, I've alwaystaught 12th graders either in
government or economics, andthat those of me was history and
because I like teaching that,yeah.
Now just coaching the demandsof being a full time boys and
girls coach got to the pointwhere I didn't want to teach
more than one subject.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
I teach economics all day.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
I mean I'm doing that , and then I have the coaching,
because it's all my prep time Alot of.
It's just stuff I got to dealwith my teams, and so the
schedule is working out prettywell for me right now.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, but I like that quote, the learn.
If you want to learn something,teach it because you're so
right.
It's not just learning it rightfor yourself, but you need then
the ability to I always saydumb it down.
I don't know if I like thatexpression because I don't want
someone to feel like you'retalking down to them but I mean

(10:58):
you have to be able toregurgitate it back to the
whatever level they're at.
So you have to recognize whatlevel they're at, number one
right.
And then you have to be able toget your point across to them
at their level and somehow makeit make sense to them.
Absolutely Right.
And so it's so interesting.
You're right To be a master atsomething.

(11:18):
You almost need to be a teacherat it at some point.
So true.
So you've been doing that atGreat Oak High School.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
Been coaching and teaching at Great Oak.
I've been teaching.
This is my 31st year teaching.
I had one and a half years atjunior high school, but this is
my 31st year as a professionaleducator and I've been coaching
tennis in some way, shape orform, since 1988.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
This is my 24th year as a boys varsity coach.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
It's my 23rd year as a girls varsity coach.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
I was thinking about that when he asked me to do that
.
I was like, oh, I'm going toadd up some numbers.
I've been doing it for a while.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Oh my gosh.
And I just heard you tell mywife downstairs you're 57.
I'm 57.
57.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
Oh, wow, and it's been, the years had helped quick
, yeah they really do yeah, no,totally, oh my gosh, okay.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
So, and then I, when I looked you up, I saw you
graduated from Cal State,florida Go.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
Titans.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
And that was what year 91, 90, somewhere in there.
Okay, and then you have amasters.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
A masters from Azusa Pacific and Curriculum and
Development.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Oh, that's cool, Okay , and then Zusa Pacific great
school.
I love that school that's localdown here in, I guess that's
what city is that.
It's on Azusa, though, is it.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
Well, there is a campus on Azusa Pacific.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
I had friends that went there.
They have the I mean foreducators, and things have
changed.
When I got into teaching, theytold you not to get your
master's degree because you werecheaper without it.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Interesting.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
Now that you get your , when you get your teacher
credential, you get yourmaster's degree at the same time
.
Oh, okay, because now that allthe districts want to say that
all their teachers have masters.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
Masters.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
You get, I mean, at the point where I was, I needed
that masters to go move up thepay scale and the program was
good.
There was definitely got somestuff out of it, some stuff.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
I thought I could teach the class, but so it was.
But it was a good program, butit was a local.
I mean, there's been a coupleof different satellite campuses
here, and so I told you.
Oh, okay, and doing that whileI was coaching and while I was
teaching.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Oh man, that's tough.

Speaker 4 (13:32):
It was a couple of you, but just powered through it
.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, but it wasn't online, not in 2012,.
Right?

Speaker 4 (13:37):
Not online.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, I bet you, nowadays you can get away with
doing it online maybe?

Speaker 4 (13:42):
Yeah, I mean the online learning and online
teaching can be tough.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:45):
It was an adventure In fact, the COVID year.
Really it was difficult.
I'm not the biggest techie guy.
I've gotten better.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
And there were days where and then I just realized
there were days that were toughdoing that but I realized I'm
going to do my best and put onmy show and make the best of it
and some of the stuff.
Like I opened up every classwith some sort of music that I
would tie into whatever I wasteaching in US history.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
And I'd eat by the time, and so now, I do that in
class, the kids come in and I'vegot YouTube on some music.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
I did times like these for the Foo Fighters on
Friday.
I liked a little teachingeconomics opportunity cost.
We did the class.
Should I stay or should I gothe other day?

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Nice.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
And they get my musical tastes.
I try to vary it up a littlebit.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, and you got the who shirt on.
I've seen the who 25 times 25?

Speaker 4 (14:46):
Yeah, I like going to .
Just saw Trumbone, shorty,mavis Staples and Ziggy Marley
down the shell.
That was a great show.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Oh my gosh, it's so fun.
I like going to shows the clash, obviously is not Joe Strummer
passed.
Yeah, passed away right.
Yeah, I love the clash, I toldyou.

Speaker 4 (15:02):
I was telling my classes, like the spirit days we
have on campus, like whereeverybody dresses up and they're
always on 80s day, fish, whyaren't you dressed up for 80s
day?
I am 80s day, yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
I'm a watcher.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yeah, and I'll crack up.
I mean this is some peoplewould debate this.
I don't care.
I told them that, yeah, youlisten to your 80s music the
best thing that came out of the80s by far was the clash.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Love the clash.
See, for me, though, my 80s arebecause I was born late 70s my
80s are more garbage Pell kidsbecause I was young, buying
cards at that time and likeBritish pop music.
You know, because that's whenyou're young, you listen to the
radio, you know.
So that's my memory of the 80s.
I love the 80s, that's funstuff.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
I love aha you know, that kind of bands Take on me.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, totally Okay.
So you have you always donevarsity, or is it JV2 or someone
else there?

Speaker 4 (15:56):
was a few year, let's see.
I was coaching at.
I was teaching at a Yala highschool in the 90s.
My good friend, jim Asgato, wasa varsity coach there.
The year I year and a half Itaught at junior high school was
just down the street or amoment in junior high school and

(16:17):
during that time all the kidsthey had just had white cement
courts outside.
I just got a whole bunch ofrackets, wood rackets, whatever
rackets I can get.
I had a little tennis club.
All those kids went to Don Lugoand the girls who were on that
program called got a hold of melike when they got to high
school our coach quit.
We need a coach, we need wewant to play tennis and so, even

(16:39):
though I didn't, I was teachingat a Yala down the street.
I was coaching the varsitygirls at Don Lugo.
My buddy, jim, was my JV coachand I we flipped when he had at
during the boy's season hecoached the varsity and I did
the JV, but I helped out with a.
I mean to me a JV coach is anassistant varsity coach too.
Yeah so okay, so I, yeah, soI've.

(17:01):
But since 2000,.
I got hired a king and my whole, my wife and I I'm going to
tell my classes this I got hiredin Chino to teach a junior high
school.
She got a communications jobworking for Cox communications
in San Diego.
We looked at the map Well,there's Temecula.
We got a place in Temecula andI just did everything I could to

(17:24):
get closer and closer to homeand now I live.
One song on the radio to what'son the radio.
Exactly.
Most days I don't get on afreeway, yeah, and so that's,
that's easy.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
That's cool.
I've never, I've never heardanyone describe the distance
they drive as one song on theradio.
That's so cool.
How is it teaching?
Okay, so high school I couldimagine, like my daughter's
eight years old.
I could imagine teaching youngkids as it's almost like all fun
, like make the games all fun.

(17:58):
Teaching college, I thinkthey're a little more focused, I
would hope maybe a little moreangrier, I don't know, but at
least focused on what they want.
But high school, I don't know.
It just seems so much harder tome.
Is it like?
Is it tougher, do you think?

Speaker 4 (18:12):
I'm going to teach, I'd like to tell when I coach, I
teach and when I teach, I coachI.
Just I'm just always trying tobuild.
So we, we get as many kids aswe possibly can to come out for
the team and we don't cut.
We have three levels from thegirls.
We have a varsity of JV and theJV reserve.

(18:34):
The JV reserve only makes meetson Fridays.
By that time the varsity and JVthey can have the day off.
We work with them a little bitand always just trying to build
and gain depth.
And so as many.
If each girl tries to getimproved, if each girl are the
guys team, each guy tries toimprove, whoever the best nine

(18:57):
are going to be are going to bedarn good.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
And that's what we try to do, and try to make it a
fail.
Try to make it a we, not me,when we're on the court.
Yeah, you know, you both, we,we both play tournaments
sometimes, and sometimes tennisis an individual sport where
you're going to play tournaments.
And sometimes in my life I'veloved just going out to a
tournament where it's me againstthe world or I take people on,
but you know that gets a littlebit lonely Sometimes.

(19:23):
The team tennis, the stuff we doin USDA stuff or it's, it's us
against them and as you'replaying with your buddies and
you're working hard to do yourjob the best you can, yeah, and
that's fun.
So I try to try to push that onmy try to try to create a
little family with our teams andwe go out and I told I was
having a discussion with thegirls the other day.

(19:43):
Here we don't do this to hangout with our friends, although
we get to hang out with ourfriends.
We don't do this just to havefun, although this is a lot of
fun.
We're trying to be the best wepossibly can be as a team and
all these people you're withright now.
They might not be some of themare your good friends, but they

(20:03):
might not all be your bestfriends but they're your
teammates and you remember yourteammates forever, totally.
And so we just do the best wecan.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
What?
How important is it?
Do you think to teach sports tokids so you get to see it from
both sides?
You're in the classroomteaching classes that they need
to graduate, but then you'realso there was sports.
Like, for me, I found sports tobe so valuable in all the sort
of extra stuff that I didn't getin the classroom.

(20:33):
But I don't know if I can putmy finger on it, but I just know
I'm a better person because ofsports.
Growing up, like, do you feelthat it's so important, like you
would never leave it kind ofthing, teaching tennis and yeah,
I'm a sports addict always havebeen.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
It doesn't matter what sport, and I think for kids
, sports and morality play, it'san area where you get to grow
and try to achieve something anddo the best you can.
I mean, and as much as I lovesports and I get upset with my
teams lose not my high schoolteams when my has broken up, as

(21:13):
I am about what's happening withthe angels right now it's just
a game.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
I don't care what.
It is just a game.
We're just trying to dosomething to be the best we can
be, but let's not overdo it.
So I think, like when I'mtrying to convey to my team,
we're going to work as hard aswe can and we're trying.
Our goal is to go out and win,to be the best team we can be by
the end of the day, when it'sover, we shake your opponent's

(21:39):
hand, you know, and so I don'twant my.
I was thinking about theWimbledon final.
I'm brains off.
My.
The woman from from Moroccolost.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:54):
My brain.
I can't think of her namesright now.
She wanted that so bad.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
And she was.
I could see that she was reallyafraid of the pain of losing
that match, and some people getdriven by fear of losing.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
I think fear of losing a lot of times leads
people to really choke.
Yeah, ons, ons.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, you're right, that final was her sort of
shutting down, because Iremember watching it and I was
like she's not, she's not veryemotional.
And I saw myself in her too,because I feel and I've said
this before when I'm playingbest, I'm a little cocky, I'm a
little confident, I'm talking,I'm, you know, I don't know, I'm

(22:37):
interacting, maybe with people,but at the same time I'm
focused.
But I've been very quiet, likeher too, and when I'm very quiet
I'm not playing well, becausesomething about me is very I
don't know how to explain itlike I don't know it just
everything about me, sort oflike reserved, you know, and
maybe I am worried internallyand I don't want to show it, and

(22:59):
that's, you're right, that'show she was.
She was very scared that day.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
It's tough because I mean and everybody's been there,
yeah, every athlete has beenthere and had things like that
happen.
But I Think it to me for myteams.
I really want them to know thatif you lose, I mean, I don't
care any less about you.
Yeah, win great it's, butyou're, it's just a match.

(23:28):
Yeah let's go out and do thebest we can.
Let's go out win becausewinning is more fun, yeah, but
in the end I mean you kind ofhave to separate that from who
you are, and so I tried one ofthe things I was.
I saw a quote a couple yearsago.
We were doing a mental healthweek on my campus and I saw,

(23:50):
right before the playoffs for mygirls, there's a big poster and
it said don't be perfect, bebrave.
Took a picture that, shared itwith my girls and was it a thing
?
We just kept saying I mean,you're not gonna be perfect,
yeah, I mean, just have thecourage to go out there and
compete the best you can.
Yeah if you do that, everythingwill work out.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, I always I wonder about that a lot actually
.
Which is I wonder if if yousomehow tailored a kids Practice
to letting them always winversus tailoring a kids practice
to making them always lose I'malways trying, I always think
about that like I wonder whatthe result would be, and I guess

(24:33):
it depends on the person.
But you sort of need both.
You need that confidence andwinning, you need to learn from
your mistakes.
When you lose, kind of thing.
And you're right, I think atthat age it obviously doesn't
matter, or even our age, itdoesn't really matter at the end
, but we want to win.

Speaker 4 (24:50):
Yeah, I was talking about like the first varsity
team I coach was that girls teamat Don Lugo and I still,
through social media, talked tosome of those, I'm gonna say,
kids in their 40s now and theydidn't win a match but a year
before I got there and they'replayed in a very tough league.
There's a bunch of beginnerkids playing against Claremont

(25:11):
and upland.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Yeah and and.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
Glendora and just, and so the first thing I did was
found a non-league.
I found teams that we wouldbeat.
I Would found less.
Let's get a feeling of winningsome matches and we improved
throughout the year.
We had those wins and thathelped, but the same time, for
my teams that I've had, I Go outof my way to find someone who's

(25:34):
gonna kick our butt.
Yeah, you need to get, we needto push ourselves.
You know challenge, I mean you.
You don't get better in oursport, any sport, if you don't
Push yourself.
And sometimes in tennis youneed that person to just To show
you what the next level is.
Yeah, you're never gonna Stepup a level if you don't see
those levels above you totallyand so it's okay, and you know

(25:57):
what's okay to lose.
Yeah if you're giving your alland going out there and battling
.
If someone's better than you,shake their hands.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah and I've also lately and really enjoyed
playing someone I think isexactly my level and I and I've
been learning a lot recentlywith that battle and like just
trying to to just squeak out awin is so beneficial Because
it's like I know he, this person, could beat me next week, I can

(26:24):
beat them next week, but rightnow I'm gonna do everything I
can to win.
You start finding Other littlethings about yourself in that
moment, you know.
But you're right, you learneverything.
When playing a person who's Notas good as you, you learn a lot
.
Playing a person who coulddestroy you and kick your butt,
obviously you learn a lot.
And then finding that person, Ithink who's your level and you
trying to squeak out a win ispretty important to especially

(26:47):
in a tournament.

Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yeah, I love that.
I love what you said battleJoey Joey Jr.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (26:55):
That's right.
I tell it to the kids all thetime.
We just battle through andfight, yeah, and you know,
playing that guy, that's betterthan you.
If you really push them, youknow you've got it.
You've got a chance a lot oftimes that when you push that
player, that's better than you.
And now they find they're in afight.
You get to get into their.

(27:16):
You get to find their weakspots.
You get to find that all wait asecond.
There's a way I can.
I can play this person.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah away.
I mean, we've had the, I've hadthose wins.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
You've had those wins where you come out and Beat
somebody that you have nobusiness beating.
Yeah now one like One of thethings I also say when you do
that, don't be surprised.
Act like you deserve it.
Act like you do, because you dodeserve it, but act like you
know.
Okay, I've done this and don'tlet down the next time.

(27:48):
Just keep battling.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, yeah, it's very true.
Yeah, what?
When did you start playing?
I know you said you sort ofmentioned you thought it would
be important to do other stuffwith your teaching, but did you
play tennis when you were youngtoo?

Speaker 4 (28:04):
or my dad.
My mom both played in thetennis craze of the 70s.
They played and they gave me aracket a few times and I messed
around with that.
I used to hit against thegarage all the time.
I played a lot of baseballgrowing up and then my dad and I
my dad played a lot of tennisfor he'd like to hit the ball as

(28:25):
hard as he could and eventually, like we'd play every Saturday,
I've actually started beatinghim and he's yeah then, it
wasn't as much fun for him.
Yeah but then I I got tired oftennis because I had a little
temper on the court and I just Ididn't pick up a racket until
my again to my Into my sophomoreyear in high school.
Okay and I started.
Then I played on the highschool team which we got to the

(28:47):
CF finals are my without anyseniors.
So we were brand new school, myjunior year, and I wasn't even
in the starting lineup.
But I just came out, I was.
I was getting better all thetime by the couple years after
college.
I could beat most of those guys.
Hmm, so I in it after call,after after high school, like a

(29:07):
big muscles guys.
After high school I startedplaying a lot of tournaments and
really got into it.
I I made a point where I wasgonna play every single day and
and I liked the tournament scenejust going out and doing that.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 4 (29:21):
I heard you played at Cal Poly for a while.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Come on, oh yeah, I was here.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
I was there for two years.
Oh really before you and Iplayed.
I worked out with a team for awhile.
I Wasn't real happy at Cal Poly.
Pomona and I transferred toFullerton.
Okay transferred there.
There was no guys team and Imet my wife oh wow, my wife was
on the women's team.
Oh the D?

(29:45):
D one athlete of my family ismy wife.
Wow, was now my JV coach.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
So oh yeah, they're D one still right.
Fullerton's yeah yeah, and theyhave the amazing softball team
They've had, so they've had asoftball team.
That's not the same levelanymore.
Oh really.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah, I mean they've they're they compete in the big
West and they've they made theNCAAs now and softball yeah, but
yeah tennis wise.
Yeah, my wife is so funny likeso she played at Fullerton for
two years.
We went to a Cal StateFullerton basketball game a
couple years ago and we'relooking at the program and she's
all the time.
I see her face just red andseething and look what she's

(30:21):
reading.
She's reading to the team.
The year before was oh and 18and she was Crackin the tennis
team yeah.
They got better since that.
I don't know, though, whathappened that year To see her,
like her competitive juices flow, yeah, going out there.
So yeah, so um oh my gosh, yeah, so, so yeah, I've been.

(30:44):
I mean, I haven't had anylessons or anything.
I remember taking a lesson withsomebody, like in the 70s, and
they were Teaching me aone-handed backhand and I was
like I saw Jimmy Connors do itwith two and yeah, please, can I
try with it?
No, we teach one.
I get begging the guy.
Please Let me do it.
It's like fuck.
Okay, try it with two, damnyeah just destroyed it.

(31:06):
Okay, you do that.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah, for the rest of your life, I would have.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
I just give me a two-handed backhand.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah, what is it about?
Because, for those that arelistening, that don't know you,
we all joke about your two-handbackhand because it's ridiculous
.
So why is it so amazing?
What is it like?
It was it always?
Because, like the story youjust told, sounds like it was
almost always good, naturallygood.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
I'm a little well.
I don't know about amped extras.
I see things I right,left-handed, okay, left-handed.
I see things well on the leftside.
I can't serve left-handed, Ican't do anything overhand, but
I see the ball I make I inbaseball I could switch it.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Okay so.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
I see the ball well on that side.
I just lean into it.
Pretty well, just take twohands.
God gave you two hands.
Hold on both rackets and rip,yeah, yeah and rip it
interesting.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
That's so interesting , so do you think it?
You know that?
Um, I forget his name now.
Rooney's coach, the in.
He was a Serena's coach,patrick, yeah, yeah, but he's
always talking about left.
I dominate, right I dominantLike who cares, but maybe it's
important.
It sounds like somehow you cansee the ball better.
Maybe on that left side I seethe ball.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
You do so.
I mean, I was thinking aboutthat I came would kick right
Larry Bird and others who wereuse both hands a lot.
Do that they're right withtheir left and use them.
You know, other things withtheir right, and so I my class
was asking you, so your ampedex-reist.
Well, I don't do everythingequally well on both sides.

(32:38):
Yeah just some things I dobetter my left, Some things I do
better my right but you canwrite with your left.
I write with my left.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Oh, you write with your left.
Yes, oh wow that's interestingbecause you're a righty in
tennis righty and tennisoverhand, but yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
I got a buddy who plays tennis right-handed and
does a lot of other stuffleft-handed, so I'm you know
that happens.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
And then you said you kick which foot?

Speaker 4 (33:01):
Right foot, probably right foot.
Yeah, it's a little bit aboutskateboard.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Do you know what you do?
Are you a goofy?

Speaker 4 (33:06):
I think I'm a goofy foot, you're a goofy in the last
time I Skateboarded.
My daughters are doing all myyoungest daughter.
I'll skateboard anyway, but Ithink I'm goofy footed.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, I don't know.
I wonder because I'm goofyfooted too, but everything about
me is righty.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
I was on a skateboard when I was 10.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
I Thought you would skate.
Still no, not at all fall.

Speaker 4 (33:28):
I don't mind skating, just falling, it scares me yeah
that's true.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
What's um?
I mean, we talked a littleabout the coachings, your
coaching style.
You know, your focus onTeamwork and all these
Intangibles.
Like, do you have sort of acoaching style like when you're
there in the moment, like areyou pushing them like what's
going on?
Are you going more technicals?

Speaker 4 (33:52):
I'm not as technical as I am.
Let's get as well rounded aplayer as possible.
We do a lot of doubles drills.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Okay, even though, yeah, we have singles players.

Speaker 4 (34:02):
But yeah, I think singles is good for your doubles
and doubles is good for yoursingles.
Yeah trying to buildwell-rounded players the most we
can building a team.
And I'm also like I don't doprivates.
I mean I consider if I'm sinceI make the lineup, I consider a
conflict of interest if I'mgiven privates plus in time to
forget yeah.
So I like to get kids over tothe club.
Bill Barron Slav is teaching alot of great kids, by the way.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
I have great assistant coaches right now.

Speaker 4 (34:27):
I've had great assistant coaches in my lifetime
, but it's helped having Slavout there.
It's incredible having my mywife, as my JV coach.
I mean, she's an inspirationevery day.
Yeah, she's been just doing itfor a couple years, but it's
just, I mean she's always beenbehind the scenes as an advisor
and helper and I mean she's just, I don't know what I do without
her, but having her on thecourt, just seen her with the

(34:50):
kids, is great.
Slav is great with the kidsreally awesome as much as a
tennis player.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
He's great with the kids.
Oh, that's so cool.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
And so I mean, when you're teaching coaching tennis,
yeah, you're teaching us forprobably coaching kids.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
And so same thing in the classroom.
I might teach a subject I don'tlike teaching kids.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, how many do you think in your high school get
to go to college and play likefrom a year to year?

Speaker 4 (35:17):
I haven't had really that many I mean.
So when I was coaching atChaparral, naza Gazal Was number
one of the 18s and she playedin Northwestern, haley Dixon at
Great Oak and Molly at Loy atGreat Oak and Hannah Stone at
Great Oak, all on the same team.
Haley was going to BostonCollege.

(35:39):
She got hurt and her shoulderwas thrashed.
I mean she really couldn't playanymore.
Molly played For St Mary's andcoached at Dominican.
Hannah was at Northern Arizonaand then at Cal Poly.
Slow, I've had some other.
Stephen Howe was.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Yeah, I'm.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
Colorado, mesa, joey, at Pacific and Oregon had a lot
of guys, a lot of guys andgirls that definitely play
Division 2, division 1, if theywant, or Division 2, maybe even
some lower Division 1, but thatwasn't their interest.
They played a lot of clubtennis.
I'm just happy, happy everyonce in a while when I see kids

(36:25):
out there that I've coached.
They're out there just playingfor fun playing in leagues, in
fact, trying to get some ofthose guys to help us on our
USDA team.
We need some young players outthere.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
It's funny how we will play a team and everyone's
a lot younger than us.

Speaker 4 (36:45):
It'd be nice we tried the year of the pandemic.
I was trying to get JoshRobbins, one of my best players
ever, to get on our team andthat didn't work because of the
pandemic and he had to go.
He was helping me coach andhe's a great coach, but he had
to go be a doctor and like apriority.
Yeah, what a jerk.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
You know it's funny.
I just joined a 5-0 league inSan Diego and some of the guys
were like, hey, let's play.
I didn't really met them.
You know we're all texting eachother, I show up and I'm just
talking with them.
I guess I sort of expectedpeople older like our age 24, 22
, and 23.
That's what I played doubleswith and I'm like what the heck
Double?
your age Double, you know closeto, and it just for the first

(37:30):
time.
It really struck me because alot of the leagues we've been
playing were sort of older guys,but this whole, this whole team
is comprised of just young guys.
So I think the older, the olderones are in their 30s, mid 30s,
and I'm obviously the oldestthen.
So it's really it's getting alittle strange for me.
Only recently I've been reallyfeeling, feeling it a little
like dang, I'm getting up there.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
It's kind of fun.
I mean, really, I feel like Ihit the ball almost as well as
I've ever hit the ball.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
But which is you know ?
It's funny though you say that,though, because the more I
think about it, it's like howstrong do you have to be to hit
a tennis ball?
Not that strong, so we're notlosing things, for, like, our
muscle mass is getting a littleless as we go older.
It's not like we should behitting slower because of that.
Do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 (38:16):
Yeah, I think I lost some of my serve.
I definitely lost some.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
You're right.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
But I don't.
You know my strokes and justbut the movement, all that stuff
has just been, and I wasn't agreat mover before.
I always could fake it, thoughyeah.
And so it's kind of harder tofake it now.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, no, but you're right though.
The big thing is the cardio,like lasting is long, and then
the quickness.
Obviously, these young kids area lot quicker than us.
Me and you got joint issues andeverything else hurts on us.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
Always something.
It's whack-a-mole, somethingalways comes up.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
That's like someone texting me this morning to hit.
I go ah, my foot hurts, likeyour foot hurts.
I'm like I don't know why.
Just my ankle, my foot, my toes, everything about my whole foot
is just hurting.
So whatever.

Speaker 4 (39:02):
You fix that and something else comes up?

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Oh, totally, you're so right, so you plan on staying
as a coach.
I mean, that's, that's your,you love it.

Speaker 4 (39:11):
Well, I do love.
I was thinking a few years ago.
I mean I was thinking aboutthat.
You know I've done it longenough and it's I'm enjoying it,
but but right now I'm stillhaving fun.
Um, I, when, when I retire fromeducation, I'll probably the

(39:32):
year the sweet spot is whenyou're 61 and a half.
I mean I'll have been teaching36 years at that point, and so
when I retire, lori and I'vetalked about and I'm moving
toward the beach someplace elsea little bit, and I'm not going
to be you know, I'm not going tobe coaching when I retired.
probably there's got to be sometime where I give it up.
So I mean I think.

(39:54):
And now the other thing ishealth.
I mean if, like right now, myuh with the girls team and I'm
going to have a boys club teamand I'm teaching all day and I'm
like doing lesson plans, lastnight I was announcing the
football game.
I'm the PA announcement.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Do you really?
Oh, that's great.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
And now you're a great uncle back.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Oh my gosh, that's so cool.

Speaker 4 (40:15):
So yeah, I'm on the.
They asked me to do it a fewyears ago and I'm a ham when he
gave me a microphone.
So I'll do all that stuff, butthere comes a point where it's,
it gets too physicallyexhausting.
Yeah, I'm not there yet.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Is Wolfpack the mascot or is it?
We are the Wolfpack.
Yeah, it's the Wolfpack's themascot.
Okay, cause I saw that.
When I looked you up too, I sawyou wearing a shirt, something
about the Wolfpack, and I didn'tknow if that was you.
Just you know.
I didn't know if you were thewolves or, which is funny.

Speaker 4 (40:45):
I taught at King for four years and helped start.
That meant a boys program andwe were the wolves, and so now
we play King every year.
It's a wolves versus Wolfpackand I respect people like King
all the time, but I I told myboys team and my girls team a
wolf is just a solitary dog.

(41:05):
A wolf pack is a killingmachine.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
That's so awesome.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
How did you get into doing the announcing for the for
the football team then, right.

Speaker 4 (41:15):
Well, I started at King when I was at King.
We have our rallies and we'reyou introduce your teams, my,
and they gave me the microphoneand here's my the.
Here is your CIF finalist orsemi-finalist, your league
champion great, I'll go, Dennis,and I announced one guy, the

(41:36):
names and the basketball coachis a friend of mine.
It's like you're now our new PAannounced.
So I started doing King and thatyear the team the King
basketball team made won thestate championship and so I did
a few of those games toward theend and then the whole year
after that and I was thebasketball game.
I'm sitting right in front.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
I got a great.
I know what I'm doing.
I love basketball.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
And so I I mean I never was a great player, I can
shoot give me an 18 foot shotand I'll just hit it every time.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Play defense I'll never, make it yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
And then when I came to, I did it at Chaparral, when
I walked over there, worked overthere and I did it from that
day one.
The basketball coach was abuddy of mine and I did it there
, for I mean, I still do it tothis day.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
It's fun.
Oh my gosh, that sounds funyeah.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
So I got the best seat in the house and I get to
see all the players and it's.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Do you have to do research into each player?
Like do you?
I'm thinking like, like VinceScully, I mean, that guy was
like a wealth of knowledge.
I always wondered about that.
Was he researching?
Obviously he lived a long life,you know, just an experienced
man.
But are you doing research intothe kids prior to or?

Speaker 4 (42:51):
To be professional at that.
Yes, To be a high schoolannouncer, high school teacher I
should.
I get this thing on Max Max,perhaps I see the light up and
go from there, yeah.
I mean I see the kids and Iknow some of them.
I mean I'll know, I'll know thekids in our team and I'll know
a little bit about the otherteams.
Yeah, I spent football.
I knew that the Marietta VilaCoat quarterback yesterday I

(43:15):
guess he's signed with or he'skind of committed to Alabama.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
I knew that.

Speaker 4 (43:19):
Oh wow A little bit about them.
I knew that they were good andI know of our guys, so yeah but
other than that, give me thebinoculars and it's Taco by
number 50 and yeah, yeah.
I'll give the guy who ran theball and they have public.
They have announcements for meto read.
I read those and yeah, yeah.
And hammer it up a little bit,have some fun.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:38):
I mean, it's just a PA announcer.
It's not that broad, I'm notbroadcasting.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Oh, okay, I get you.

Speaker 4 (43:43):
Oh yeah, you're at the game.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Okay, what's your favorite sport right now to
watch besides tennis?

Speaker 4 (43:49):
then that's a hard one, because I'm on TV.
I'm a sports addict.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
You're watching everything, oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
I don't understand cricket, but everything else I
mean I'm, I mean I love thesoccer, I love the soccer, I
love to do I'm a football, I'llwatch football.
I love college football.
I mean I've got like threefantasy football teams going and
I'll watch.
I'll watch baseball andbasketball and everything hockey
I love.
I like international sports,like I love the Olympics.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
So yeah, that's so fun Went to a as a fan.

Speaker 4 (44:19):
went to LA, went to Atlanta, saw a lot of that stuff
there, saw Salt Lake City thewinter Olympics.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
My greatest story always is my neighbor at the
time was uh, she's passed away.
Now I don't like talking aboutpeople who passed away, but this
story is so funny.
She used to drink whiskey, likethat was her thing.
We had the torch runner run byour street.
She was so drunk.
I remember I was a young kid.
What year was that?
The?

(44:45):
The?
Was it 80,?
You know, 84?

Speaker 4 (44:47):
84, 96.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
If it's a LA, LA was okay, that when I was thinking,
when I was really young, so 84.
So she tossed her whiskey glassat him.
I don't remember why.
I don't remember why she did itbecause she was just a crazy
person when she drank.
But we just remember laughingso hard Like what does she do?
Oh, my gosh, Get out of here.
I was so mad.
People were like on her block.

(45:09):
They ran right past our street.
That was so funny.
Yeah, that was that's my memory.
And we went to watch.
We went to watch the Olympicstoo.
Yeah, that was that was so fun.
Yeah, I went to Dodger.
We went to Dodger's A's WorldSeries.
These are like my memories as akid Dodger's A's World Series,
when um Oral Hurciser pitched,you know, and um, what's the

(45:30):
what can I think?

Speaker 4 (45:31):
of his name, gibson.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Gibson hit the homerun.
We didn't see that game, um,but that was the series that I
remember going to and then wentto Olympics.
That was the big sportingevents when I was a kid, yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
That was fun, Totally .

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Um, give me some sort of I need a pointer.
I know we talked about thebackhand and this is leading
into my gift to you, but wetalked about the backhand.
I need some sort of pointer tomake a person have a good
backhand, and my gift to you isAndre Agassi obviously because

(46:09):
obviously one of the bestbackhands ever.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
And I thought I gotta give.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
I gotta give fish a great, a great gift here.
And instantly I looked throughmy tennis cards and I'm like, oh
right, when I saw it I said, um, giving you Agassi.
So that's one of my more prizedcards, by the way.
I love this card, I love Agassi.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
It's a really cool card, so that's for you.
I got a couple of Agassistories.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
Really.

Speaker 4 (46:29):
First of all, I love how I watching him hit the ball
um taking the ball on the rise.
If you see sometimes one of thedrills on the Monday nights,
you'll see me scoop somethingoff the rise from the baseline.
I don't like to bug into, bugand high.
I struggle with that high bigforehand.
I got a big guy's whack theheck out of it.
I'm going to use someone's paceagainst them, and so I mean

(46:54):
different levels for fordifferent advice for a backhand.
First of all, get your racketback early.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:01):
If you got your racket back early and then you
got options to do anything withit.
Um, as you get more advanced,take that ball on the rise, take
that ball early.
The earlier you get the ball onyour racket, it's earlier.
Regardless how hard you hit it,it makes it harder on your
opponent.
I mean, I can see took the ballso early and so I think the

(47:24):
game now you'll see a lot ofpeople let and getting that ball
to the drops into their strikezone.
I love getting the ball on therise.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
And a lot of it was watching Agassi.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
You know it's funny now that you're saying that I'm
picturing you on Monday nightswhen we play.
And you're so right, you, youjust catch it right off the
ground and you have the abilityto sort of put it anywhere you
want.
And it's cause you're catchingit so early, you can sort of
just flick it over there, flickit up the line, and you're using
our pace, and I can.
I see it now the way youdescribed.
It is exactly now how I see youhitting and I couldn't quite

(47:57):
grasp it.
But you're right, it's so early, you're using their pace and
you're just sort of putting itwhere you want from that point.

Speaker 4 (48:04):
I'm taking the pot and I'm not swinging it as hard.
I mean can swing hard, but bygetting it early the ball still
has more momentum and I'm takingmomentum going the other way
and also the amount of time fromwhen I make contact, as opposed
to if I wait till the ball getsat a different level.
I've cut off time back andforth, so I'm rushing and

(48:27):
putting pressure on people andthat's the goal anyway.
When I played my best tennis, Iwas really taking the ball on
the rise before you know, andtaking the balls early as I can,
and you look at my fair playersto watch.
Venus, I think, did that betterthan Serena especially in the
returns.

(48:48):
Agassi, serena can do it too,but Venus, I always liked Serena
had the better serve Venus onher game.
Her return to serve was vicious, and so I like taking the
people's pace against them.
So I'd say, on her backhandside, just staying down getting
that ball in front and usingpeople's pace against them.

(49:09):
That'd be my advanced lesson ontoward the beginning lesson Get
your racket back and drivethrough it and give it a ride.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
Yeah, and the pace of the ball after it bounces on
the up.
When you say use their pace,it's so much different than if
you let that ball hit its arcand now is on the drop, which a
lot of people do nowadays.
You see that they're sort ofwaiting back, they're letting it
drop into their strike zone.

Speaker 4 (49:38):
Makes sense on a clay court too, because a clay court
, the ball doesn't bounce asconsistently.
So you let it bounce andthey're using Now.
When you do that and let it getin your strike zone, the stroke
is all yours.
You've got to do the drivingthrough it which is okay if
you're a big, strong guy, Ifyou're delpontro it's just blast

(49:58):
.
But last time I checked I'm notone marketing delpontro.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
I'm not that big.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
The ball is going to be in my strike zone earlier, so
I'm going to hit it out of mystrike zone earlier.
So I mean one of the thingsabout creating about tennis is,
you know, there's differentadvantages for different people.
I mean, the taller guy might beable to blast the serve and
might be able to.
Big, high bouncing forehandmight be able to give that a
ride.
Let us guys who aren't that big, let's get the ball early.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Yeah, I felt because it's something happened to me
last year where I had asituation where the guy was
hitting not really deep but sortof high to the service line and
I was letting it then drop andI was like the whole match.
I didn't figure it out tillmaybe the last game I ended up
losing.
But I was so mad and I was likeat the last game I started

(50:50):
taking everything on the riseand, because I had to generate
all the power, he was hittingthis high ball service line and
then it was coming into mystrike zone.
I felt like oh, I can hit agreat shot here, but I had to
generate all the power and Ijust couldn't do it.
I couldn't hit winners and thatwas his game right.
He was I don't want to call himpusher, but just a grinder
right, and he was sort of justdoing that every time and I

(51:11):
couldn't do what I wanted and Ididn't figure it out till the
last few games that take it onthe rise, use the pace of the
ball before I let it drop,because then it was almost like
it felt like it was zero milesper hour at the time I was
hitting it.
I had to generate all the paceright.
It was really tough.

Speaker 4 (51:27):
It gets exhausting.
Yeah, you're right what I'mtelling, what I'm saying by
getting the ball early.
I mean, I remember I played atournament and when they had the
old 5-5 division.
There was a guy who was one inthe 5-5s and he was beating
everybody and I first of alladvice for players that drives
me nuts Scouting a player, don'tlook at their UTR because it

(51:51):
doesn't mean anything.
Don't look at their ranking.
If you got scouted how they hitthe ball, that's great.
After you play them, look attheir UTR and look at their rank
.
But like I, get kids that arepsyched up he's a UTR.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
this I don't care how does he play, so I saw this guy
he hit a lot of times, a lot oftopspin.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
I said I'm going to take every ball early and I
don't know what was that day,but I played out of my head.
I just played so well I beathim 6-1, 6-2.
And later he came to apologize.
I started with a jerk.
I mean, you just played so welland I was getting on my young,
and who is this guy?
Like I told him, dude, noapology needed.

(52:29):
I didn't even notice.
I was in such a zone.
I don't even know what you did,I didn't care.
If I don't see a guy, I mean,yeah, it was a fun match, I
don't really care, I playedgreat next and so that's yeah.
It.
Just when I'm getting the ballearly, like that, takes work and
takes timing and takes practice.

(52:49):
You can't just do it, but toplay the grinder with all that
topspin.
It's the only way to do it.
I mean I can't, I'm not goingto, I'm not going to outlast a
guy for six hours hittingtopspin where I've got to do
generate all the pace.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Totally no, I agree.
So you are playing tournamentsstill.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
I try to get back out there.
I played a couple of singles.
I mean I was playing the leagueand been doing that for years.
Yeah, I got thumbed the lasttwo times I played, but I played
at open level 55.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
And through the second seed.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
this guy ran down every ball and I had to be the
aggressor and he just playeddown.
And then I played somebody elseat a four or five second seed
again.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
A four or four or five tournament.
Yeah, oh, okay, cool.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
Second seed big, strong guy with exactly the game
you're talking about, and I hadto.
I had to be the aggressor.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:44):
And I knew what I had to do and I know I'm beating
guys like that, but it was hard.
I couldn't do it this time.
Next, this part you get backout there, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
I'm playing a men's 40 in the couple weeks in it's
in Newport.
But there's it's all age youknow, 35 up to I want to say, 75
.
I think our friend MikeDeegan's playing it with Joe
Valloway.
That'd be fun, yeah, but it'llbe fun.
So I'm trying to focus more onthe age division tournaments.
Obviously I love playingopenings.
I like seeing people smack thecrap out of a ball to me, you

(54:15):
know it helps me see a differentball.
But like me and you talkedabout earlier, they're a little
too quick and it happenssometimes where I'll think I'll
hit a winner and I'm like whatthey got the ball back.
It'll literally surprise mebecause I'm not used to it.
But the age division group, youknow those tournaments are
really fun, yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:34):
You might get.
There's some 40s that are outof this world.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Oh my gosh, Amazing the 40s is no joke of a division
.
Oh no yeah.
There's a lot of talented, butyou know, at every age you'll
see some real talented people.
I won a 40s.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
It was a funny story.
Well, first of all, it was avery small tournament, so you
know when the bigger the drawand they were getting prize
money.
That's where, like if I went,around or so that's then.
I've had a great day.
But yeah, I went a couple ofrounds and I'm playing this guy
and he's in San Diego and helives in Orange County.
Big serve and we in thesemifinals the day before he has

(55:09):
hey.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
So I don't want to drive this all the way to San.

Speaker 4 (55:11):
Diego, we'll just meet in Marietta, because I know
that's close to you.
I saw the weather report andit's going to be like 102.
Yes, orange County, dude, Iwant to play you at Marietta
tennis club and 102 degree heat.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
Yeah, one o'clock.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
He didn't know he was getting into he had no idea.

Speaker 4 (55:29):
Like we're warming up , he had a serve, hit the back
fence and hit me in the head andwas knocked me out and like I
could not break him for the lifeof me, but I held and I beat
him in the first set, tiebreakerseven, six and by the second
set, oh, you've got here in thespiders web dude.
Now you know, I got you and runthem all over the place.
Six, three, it's hot.
No, you're the one that wantedto play on Marietta.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
Like these are our courts.
Come on.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
That wasn't the oh yeah.
So that's how I won my 40 opens.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Wow, nice, who did you play?
I remember the first time Ireally saw you play, play, play,
not just hit, but was there.
It was that tournament atMarietta.
You were playing on court too.
Who did you play?

Speaker 4 (56:10):
I was playing Deegan probably Was it Mike, it might
have been Deegan or Bobby.
Bobby Kilty too.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
No, it must have been Deegan then, Because I knew
someone Last time I played.

Speaker 4 (56:18):
I played.
I played Vinny too, vinnyRivera one time.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
No, you're right, it was Mike, it was.
Mike Deegan I remember thatmatch you guys were playing.
That was a good match.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
He got me seven, six, seven, five or something.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Oh, did he really yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:30):
And I just oh, wow.
Yeah, I was coming, coming backfrom when I had my wrist
surgery.
I had so, but I was playing alittle better when I played
Bobby.
Oh my and you asked Bobby Kiltyabout that match we were out
there forever.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
Really.

Speaker 4 (56:42):
I'm two degree heat and we got to five, five and a
third, and I'm but so many timesI'm great at the end of the
matches and I'm like, okay, Igot him.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
I thought I got him.
I'm a professional athlete overthere.
He had an extra.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
He gets better in the tighter spots.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
He had an extra gear and I thought I had an extra
gear.
I didn't have an extra gearthat day.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
He's.
He's interesting because I thisis one of the things I talked
about with him too was when I'veplayed doubles with him.
He's I'm not saying he'saverage, but he's average for
him but during the match.
But then when it counts, therewas this other gear I've never
seen.
He didn't miss, he didn't doanything spectacular, it wasn't

(57:21):
like he turned into a pro.
It's not what I'm saying, butthere was something about him
where he just became so focusedand just didn't miss.
He made it work and it was soimpressive to see.
And obviously that's just causehe's a world class athlete.
But those people are on adifferent level.

Speaker 4 (57:37):
Yeah, he was fun to play, but we talk about that
match and I literally took twomonths to recover from that
match Really.
He jokes about it too.
It was so hot, it was so brutal.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
Oh my gosh, it was a physical match, yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Oh well, that's funny .
And then so is there leaguegoing on right now.
Are you in a four or?

Speaker 4 (57:52):
five.
Well, yeah, if we got the fouror five league, I got that, I've
got.
My high school team is startingout planning our first matches
this week.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Should be fun, I'm both for guys and girls are
starting girls.

Speaker 4 (58:04):
Girls are in the fall , guys are in the spring.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
And so, in fact, you gave me that card I was going to
tell you this is for Ila.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
Oh, so cool.
She'll love this.
That's for Ila, right there,thank you.

Speaker 4 (58:16):
And this is for you to represent little great.
Oh, can I wolf pack girls test.
Oh, she's going to love thatthat's for you, check out that
so cool, so love this.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Yeah, thank you oh long sleeve.

Speaker 4 (58:27):
I like it.
Yeah, that's the boys teams isin the spring.
Sweet girls team in the fall isin the fall and.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
Excel that's my perfect one.

Speaker 4 (58:37):
Our girls team.
We won league last year eventhough we were rebuilding.
We're deeper this year.
Got a lot of girls back, Gotsome new girls coming up, but
we're deeper.
We'll be fun.
Boys team we had some kidsgraduate, but that happens every
year.
Yeah, we got some new kidscoming.
I know Marietta's going to bevery strong, but it'll be fun.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
We'll compete, yeah, and in the end of the day, we'll
go out and play.

Speaker 4 (58:58):
And when losers draw we'll shake their team's hands,
but we're trying to win.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
So in high school are you playing all Temecula high
schools, or do you get to branchout, to out?
We branch out.

Speaker 4 (59:09):
Well, absolutely, we play.
We play some non-league matches.
Some people call thosepreseason.
I hate that term, likepreseason football.
I will never watch a preseasonfootball game because it's a
practice.
Yeah, it's a practice.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:25):
Non-Lig games are important because it kind of
gets you standing around therest of the CIF and then you
have your league whichdetermines your league
championship.
Also who gets to go to the CIFplayoffs.
And then you have CIF and We'vebeen in division one for girls
and guys for you for the lastfew years.
But we're Moving move down todivision two, Division one.

(59:50):
We have the Married AttentivesClub.
We have a lot of people in thearea but really some of those
kids were playing Irvine schools, we played Sage Hill.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Oh, really yeah in the playoffs.
Sage Hill.

Speaker 4 (01:00:00):
So they what those kids have, the amount of courts
and yeah just the tenniscommunity in Irvine, it's just.
It's a different world.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Yeah, orange County, so I love to play those guys.

Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
Yeah, some of my favorite high school wins, or
when we go out and beat in anOrange County school to beat my
boys team a while ago beatCampbell Hall.
This is a huge win for us.
But you know, eventually See Ihave it gets pretty.
When you're playing divisionone, it gets pretty ferocious.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Yeah, so the CIF, when you, you guys, will get
into a CIF tournament.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
I don't remember how I so we have, you have your
season, and then there's a CIFplayoffs, just like every other
sport.
Okay and then you also have theindividual championship and
there's also a CIF individualtournament.
So, you have two differentthings going on the same time.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
You have a.

Speaker 4 (01:00:52):
CIF Team playoffs and I'm more of a team person over
the individual thing too.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
But then you have the CIF individuals and Is that the
one in Ohio, or is thatsomething totally?

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
different.
Oh hi, for the boys is aIndividual championship where
they do out center California.
So the city sections.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (01:01:13):
Okay, I love going up there.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
Oh, heck yeah that's.

Speaker 4 (01:01:16):
I know you went up there last year.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
I'm just tennis dizzy man.
I'm very a little worried aboutwhat happens though.
Hi, now the Pac-12 isdissolving.
Yeah so, hopefully, what?
Maybe they'll do something.
Maybe though, the WCC, the bigWest, or something.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:36):
Or maybe the Big Ten comes in plays there.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Hmm.

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
That'd be awesome.
How state in Michigan?

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Oh yeah, that'd be amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:01:44):
Whatever happens, but that's just such a special
experience.
And love, seeing the Love,seeing the Pac-12 guys my kids
get to, just get the experienceof being there, yeah, and so I
try to go every year.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Yeah, totally.
That was the funnest time of mylife going to watch that
tournament when I was a kid.
Yeah, watch all the greatplayers, your age division, all
the way up to college.
So you play at West Covina yeahwell, that's where we practice
West Covina high school.
And then when you said thecement white courts that was my
memory, it was West Covina highschool was the steel nets?
And and the white.

(01:02:20):
You know cement floors.

Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
I play a dime a bar.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Oh, you play a dime a bar.

Speaker 4 (01:02:24):
Okay, yeah, so yeah we went to West Covina many a
time.
So yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Yeah, that's one.
High schools I mean I know it'smake a valley, still let people
, but that's when high schoolsused to let anyone jump on.

Speaker 4 (01:02:35):
Come jump on our courts.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
You can at yours too, oh, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
So, like the other day, I was driving around and
taking my daughter.
She just got a truck that's astick shift and I'm teaching her
how to drive that, and so Iwent behind the courts there's a
little fire drive just to messaround and learn getting first
and second gear and I was.
I don't go to my courts atseven o'clock at night, hardly

(01:02:59):
ever.
Yeah there were kids Up anddown and people teaching lessons
.
Yeah, it's so cool that washuge, and so we need we need
that.
Yeah, totally the tennis clubfor our kids and traffic after
school is an hour away.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
We traffic.
Yeah, that's terrible.
Yeah, I'm so mad when I seehigh schools all locked up like
the track too.
That was one of the things.
I remember a big memory as akid.
We would go as a family to thelocal high school track and
everyone would be walking allthese families, people were
strollers and it was just funexercise as a family, you know.
So I don't know, I just doesn'treally exist that much.

(01:03:37):
So I'm glad to hear your highschools open.
That's so cool.

Speaker 4 (01:03:41):
The trouble is sometimes we'll have the
skateboards.
Yeah, they're messing up andthe public Leaves their trash
out and we have to deal with itand stop.
I mean their potentialvandalism.
But yeah, you know it's it'sworth it for the kids to play
and yeah, so Hopefully we keepit's hard to lock our kids
courts up because you can hopthe fence pretty easy our our

(01:04:02):
courts.
But yeah.
Hopefully we keep them openbecause there's just so much
going on and we have the lightsthere, the city put the lights.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:04:10):
So I need my courts to be resurfaced so, and they
just totally did a chaparral.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
They tore down the courts and putting in new ones.
I haven't seen the new ones yet.
I don't know if it's done, butI don't know.
I haven't seen it yet.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
Yeah they need the chaparral courts.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
I remember they're like slanted right.

Speaker 4 (01:04:29):
Because of drainage, because you got a drain, because
it rained so much in Temecula.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Yeah, is that why they built?
Did they purposely build itthat?

Speaker 4 (01:04:38):
way, those drainage courts are like that or like.
You'll see that on the Someplace where it rains 50 inches a
year.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Yeah, but not to make it yeah not so much.
Oh, that's hilarious.
Well, fish, my friend, I thinkwe're at a good stopping point.
We're a little over an hour, soI so happy you came.
I learned a lot.
It was really fun.
This was fun, yeah, this wasfun.

Speaker 4 (01:04:58):
Everybody out there Get out and play, yeah great
game.
I love the sport and just Tryto get as many people out there
to play us.
So I I've been saying thingsthat are anti pickleball.
I'm not really anti pickleball,I'm just pro tennis.
Get on the tennis court, takeour tennis courts back from the
pickleballers.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Totally I might play.
There's a pickleball tournamentcoming up.
I'm looking at it.
I'm like, but I still haven'tplayed pickleball yet, so I
haven't, I don't know yet.
I was thinking like, should Ido it?
Put on camera.

Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
I don't know yet We'll see this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
players usually dominate, I guess I don't know.
It's just such a weird thing tome, pickleball, I don't, I
still don't get it.
But thank you, my friend.
Thanks, fish yeah so awesome,thanks you.