July 10, 2023 • 43 mins
Get set for a deep dive into the labyrinth of tennis rules and regulations. Now, have you ever wondered about the consequences of colorful language on the court? Can you cuss? Can you call someone a jerk? We're going to take you on a journey through the ins and outs of cussing on the court – it's penalties and the intriguing interpretation of these rules. Brace yourself as we decode the Friend at Court book and how the rules differ for ITF tournaments, league matches, and even friendly matches.
We'll be wrestling with complex notions like unsportsmanlike conduct, misconduct, and the point penalty system as outlined by the USTA regulations. Prepare to have your mind challenged as we grapple with the difference between intentional and unintentional acts and how body movements and gestures on the court come into play. We will also shed light on the referee's role when it comes to defaulting players and the implications of misconduct by someone associated with the player.
And just when you thought this couldn't get more engrossing, we reexamine the USTA regulation regarding unsportsmanlike conduct. So, whether you're a tennis player, an avid fan, or just curious about the sport, this episode promises a fascinating journey through the rulebook. Tune in for an episode that's sure to serve up some food for thought!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
That was loud, hey, everyone, i miss with the sound
here a little, so it doesn'tblow my eardrums.
So if you're ever thinkingabout starting a podcast,
there's this website calledAudio Jungle and that's where I
(00:24):
got this song from.
You know, there's a lot ofthings like this, just beats,
instrumentals.
A lot of sounds too.
Actually, if I look up tenorsounds, there's ball balls
hitting the floor, peopleserving, people grunting.
It's really cool.
You can do a lot with it.
So go on Audio Jungle and youcan.
(00:45):
Just they let you buy.
I think this song cost me likethree bucks or something and you
can reuse it for as many timesas you want.
Really cool, but anyway, solet's get into it here.
I'm excited to talk aboutanother set of rules that I
actually put out, a littleInstagram poll.
Maybe like 12 people responded,i think.
(01:07):
But hey, that's fine.
And I asked does anyone want meto research the foot fault
rules or look into whether ornot you can cuss on the court?
And obviously we know theanswer to the cuss on the court
thing, right, and we also sortof know the answer to the foot
fault thing.
You can't do it, but I thoughtit would be interesting if
(01:28):
everyone does pick the cussingthing to sort of look into it a
little more.
Like what is cussing?
I hope the rules get into that.
What's the penalties for it?
right, because that's important.
So when you're looking at rules, if you're not focusing also on
what are the penalties, thenyou're not truly understanding
the rule, because maybe you know, especially in the law, maybe
(01:48):
there's a different rule thatyou want your client to violate,
right, i mean not to violate,but to be found guilty of.
Like, oh, if they get foundguilty of this one, it comes
with X plus two, but if they getfound guilty of this other
little one, it's only Xpunishment.
(02:09):
So the punishments areimportant to look at.
So, long story short, theInstagram followers that
followed me and voted ended upchoosing cussing, and so I
looked into it and that's whatI'm going to be doing here a
little, and I will say that theanswer is pretty simple.
(02:31):
Obviously, like I said before,you can't cuss on the court, But
we don't really know what thatmeans, right?
Does it mean you can't flipsomeone off?
Does it mean you can't mumbleunder your breath A cuss word?
can you mumble in differentlanguages?
Right, there's a lot of openquestions that I didn't know
(02:54):
before researching this And, tobe a little honest, i feel the
more I get into these rules I'ma little unsatisfied with them,
the complexity of them or theway they're written.
You know, i'm not trying to beall you know, i don't know Rude
about it, i guess, because Idon't.
I didn't make this podcast tobe like that, you know, which is
(03:16):
why I intentionally try to talkabout nice things, family
things, good things, but I can'thelp but just feel like these
rules sometimes get a littleconfusing and if, even if
they're not confusing, i can'thelp but feel that they're not
fully giving me the answer thatI'm looking for.
You'll see when I get into it,you know today regarding the
(03:37):
cussing rule, so I won't go intoa crazy tangent like last time.
If you listen to my lastYouTube and this one, i'm going
to try to put this one onSpotify.
So I don't, i'm not going toreference videos like I did last
time, which made me not able toput it on Spotify, but this one
I'm going to edit after withsome pictures, maybe throw the
rules up on the screen for you.
(03:58):
If you're watching on YouTubeand if you're listening in
Spotify, it's going to be fine.
You're not missing anythingreally.
but, like I said last time, iwent on a crazy tangent about
the ITF rules and who made upthe ITF and the Titanic.
It was pretty nuts actually.
When I listened to it later I'mlike what am I talking about?
but I just was interested inthe little extra thing, so
(04:18):
that's why I kept going off.
The only little tangent I'mgoing to go off on here is the
more we get into these rules,the more you need to understand
the book.
It's called the Friend at Courtand, like I said, you can look
it up on the USTA website.
It's called the Friend at Courtand I guess it's your friend at
(04:41):
court like on the tennis court,i guess.
So even the name is a littleconfusing to me.
It seems like every yearthey're sort of updating it, so
it's important to get the latestupdated version the 2023 Friend
at Court Within that book.
The Friend at Court.
I tried to explain this lasttime, but I'm understanding it
(05:02):
even more.
The more I look into more rulesbecause I didn't really get it
Last time is the first time Iever opened that book, about a
week ago The more I open thebook and understand it I'm now
understanding it better wherethe book has the ITF rules, the
rules that are sort of there forthe ITF tournaments, the pro
players.
The book has USTA rules for us,the league matches and probably
(05:29):
the rules that would apply.
The USTA rules would apply toour friendly matches too, like
you know, matches that you setup with a friend.
I guess you can make up anyrules you want because it's
technically not USTA regulated.
That would be interesting,right, sort of make up your own
street rules before you go intoa tennis match.
I like that actually.
I never thought about that.
(05:51):
But the other confusing partwith this Friend at Court book
is there's something called thecode and it's right in the
middle of the book, i think, ifI remember how it is, because I
only look it up digitally.
But there's this thing calledthe code and it's like that
thing really throws me offBecause it is providing
(06:16):
providing more informationbeyond what the rules are.
But that's actually a littlescary too if you think about it.
I don't like that If I can'tlook at the penal code to see
what I violated when I'm drivingand doing something wrong and I
have to look at a differentbook.
(06:36):
That's a little scary.
It's scary for the people whomight violate those rules
because it's not clear.
That's scary when rules aren'tclear.
It's also scary for the lawyerswho are defending those people,
because I think there'sdifferent ways to interpret
things when there's multiplesources to look at.
(06:57):
Okay, so I think it gets alittle confusing.
But again, this is my tangentpart.
So I apologize and I am gonnaget into the cussing part, which
won't take long.
But there's a little preface orpreface.
I'm not really sure how you sayit, i always call it a preface.
But the preface is it says thecode.
(07:20):
Remember, i'm telling you aboutthe code.
There's three parts to thefriend at court ITF rules, usta
regulations and rules and thecode.
And it says in the code thecode is not part of the ITF
rules.
Players must follow the codeexcept to the extent which an
official assumes some of theirresponsibilities.
(07:40):
Okay, that's a little weird tome already.
And then it says the principlesin the code apply in cases not
specifically covered by the ITFrules or the USTA regulations.
Okay, so again, there's theseITF rules, there's these USTA
regulations, and then they'readmittedly telling us that those
(08:02):
are sort of lacking in somerespects because they had to
draft this thing called the codeand there's literally a line in
the code that says theprinciples in the code apply in
cases not specifically coveredby the ITF rules and USTA
regulations.
Again, it's a little confusing.
I'm still trying to get it.
Hopefully someone maybe willschool me one day and explain
(08:24):
why this is done this way.
But when you read the code,it's helpful if you just read
the code by itself, because itgoes into sportsmanship policy,
it goes into things like that,and there's a paragraph in there
that talks about the unwrittenrules and tradition of tennis.
That stuff's important, right,because tennis is a fun game,
(08:45):
it's a community game, you getto know your neighbor, kind of
thing.
But again, it doesn't help mybrain when I'm trying to find an
answer to a question And Idon't like there's some thing
here that says here's theunwritten rules, it's like, wow,
that's messing with my brain.
Okay, so let's get past thetangent, let's now go into.
(09:06):
When I opened up that friend atcourt, i liked looking at the
digital version, obviouslybecause I can control F, right.
So I go control F on mykeyboard and I start control
F-ing things.
F-ing things.
Sorry, that sounded bad.
I started to control F thingslike cussing, cursing, flagrant
misconduct, unsportsmanlikeconduct, code violations, all
(09:29):
these things, right, because Idon't wanna miss something.
I can look at the book fresheach time and go page one, page
two, page three, but I choose tocontrol F these types of things
first to see where I'm going totry to make sure I'm not
missing anything.
If I'm just skimming, right,it's a couple hundred pages,
this friend at court.
So you can't really do thatevery time.
(09:52):
So I started to control F andwe'll mess that up again, and I
started finding the words that Ithought, okay, i wanna focus on
these unsportsmanlike conduct.
Then there's something calledmisconduct, sort of the same
right, little confusing Thepoint penalty system, like
(10:13):
what's gonna happen when you dothis bad thing.
And then I do wanna touch onthe hindrance rules just a
little, because I think it's agood background going into then
the misconduct.
But let me get into that.
But that was sort of thethought process and the research
process that I went to for thisparticular one.
So hopefully by the end of thiswe'll find out the basic
(10:36):
question of can we cuss on thecourt?
Like I said, we sort of allknow the answer, but it's good
to sort of read the rules outloud for me to look at them all,
to see what the penalties are,to see how those rules apply.
Like I said at the beginning, ithink we're all gonna be a
little unsatisfied because itdoesn't help answer some very
(10:56):
specific questions that I had.
Like, if I gave an example ofsomeone doing something on the
court, i couldn't necessarilyfind the answer here And I hate
that.
And if it's gonna be up to theinterpretation of the ref,
that's tough right, because oneperson might say this, the other
person might say this, and Idon't like that kind of stuff.
(11:17):
Anyways, let's go a little intothe hindrance rules.
We all sort of know, like thehindrance right, an example of
that.
You can't talk during the point, okay, so that doesn't
necessarily match up withcussing right.
That's different And we weresort of assuming people are
(11:37):
cussing not in the middle ofswinging right.
When I was thinking aboutsomeone cussing on the court, i
wasn't necessarily thinkingsomeone in the middle of a serve
saying yeah, son of a, thatkind of thing.
It was more like talking trashon the changeover or if someone
hits a lucky shot, you cuss themout, things like that.
(11:57):
But I did find it interestingthat the hindrance issues and
the hindrance rules apply.
There is hindrance issues withtalking during points, okay.
So I think there's ways thereto even get you sort of busted
when you're talking, even ifit's not cussing right.
That goes into the hindrancerule.
So I didn't really researchthat enough, but I thought it
(12:19):
was important to at least bringup I found some other hindrance
rules about body movement.
Okay now, the only reason againI'm bringing this up is because
later on I'm gonna talk to youabout gestures.
Oh, i almost did it.
Did I do it on camera?
I might have done itsubconsciously, but gestures,
where is that?
(12:39):
misconduct, unsportsmanlikeconduct, kind of thing.
So the hindrance issues or thehindrance rules also touch on
body movement And it says like aplayer may faint with their
body while the ball is in play.
However, other things likewaving your arms, it says
stamping your feet I don't know,maybe I'm a moron, i always say
(13:01):
stomping.
I don't know, maybe now Irealize it sounds dumb, but it
says these things aren't allowedStamping your feet, waving your
arms, but player fainting thebody, that's okay, right, that
makes sense.
So a lot of these things domake sense And I always say this
too.
In my world of law, like a lotof the rules just make sense.
They're common sense.
(13:21):
There's only some nuance tosome very particular rules.
Talk under the hindrance issuesa little more.
I'll just touch on this again.
There's some parts that talkabout unintentional acts versus
intentional acts.
I like focusing on that alittle too prior to getting into
(13:42):
the cussing, because it helpsme understand sort of where the
USTA's brain was when they weredrafting these regulations The
unintentional whoops versus theintentional act.
Obviously the cussing's gonnabe more on the intentional side.
Okay, so this is just all goodstuff for us to understand, and
each time you research a ruleyou want to sort of get this
(14:05):
other stuff just to make sureyou're really understanding the
whole world of the rule you'reresearching.
So I like that.
I like looking in the hindrancestuff.
I like looking into what is thecode a little more just to see
if I can help give myself sortof a background, coming into
this very new right, coming intothis where I've only known this
(14:25):
book exists for a week, eventhough I've been playing tennis
literally my whole life.
Maybe you feel the same way,right?
It's like, have any of you everlooked in the USTA regulations.
Maybe some of you have.
Do you even know there's a bookout there called Friend at
Court?
Again, i didn't, okay.
So I'm staying away now fromthe code, i'm going straight to
(14:48):
the USTA regulations, part ofthe Friend at Court book.
Obviously, these are the onesthat apply to us, the USTA
tournaments we play andobviously the league matches
that we play, okay.
So I'm gonna throw out somethings here And then at the end
(15:09):
I'm hoping to sort of bring itall home, because I'm gonna
throw out just some parts at youAnd then it's gonna answer some
questions, but then it's sortof just like giving you parts of
the recipe and you're not trulyunderstanding what it is, and
at the end, hopefully, we'lljust put it all together, right,
and it'll make sense, it'llmake the thing we want to make.
(15:30):
So under the USTA regulations,there's a section for referee
responsibilities after the drawis made, right?
So after the draw is made, theseedings, et cetera, there was
this section called defaultingplayers, and so, again, thought
this was interesting, right.
So if we're trying tounderstand cussing, we're trying
to understand the penalties ofcussing.
(15:50):
It's nice to read moreinformation about the ref's
responsibilities and when can't,they default people.
So that's why I specificallycut and paste this particular
part of the USDA regulations.
So it says default players.
The referee may default a player.
(16:11):
Okay, that says may, okay.
That's another interestingthing in the law.
I always tell people what I'mtrying to explain to them a
particular code or rule.
Does the rule say must?
Does the rule say may okay,this one says may.
Sounds like it's a choice forthe ref.
If it says may, you don't haveto right.
The referee may default aplayer for cause, which includes
(16:35):
, but is not limited totardiness comma, and here's the
one that applies to usmisconduct on court or off court
.
Ooh, off court, alsointeresting.
So that's good to know.
The ref has the responsibility,or may have the responsibility,
(16:56):
to default to us when we docertain things on or off the
court.
All right, good, good, good.
So, continuing with the USDAregulations, there's a section
called conducting the tournamentand there's tables there.
It's got a little confusing tome too, i think, the point of
the tables.
We're trying to sort of givethe reader a summary and sort of
(17:19):
you know how tables are.
Sometimes they'll explain it toyou in paragraph form, but then
give you a table, so it's notnecessarily in conflict with the
paragraph parts, but to me itgot a little confusing, but
anyway.
So let's go to table 10 underdefault.
Okay, a little more about thedefaults.
It says a default occurs whenan official defaults a player
(17:42):
under the point penalty system.
Okay, good, i mentioned that atthe beginning, right, the point
penalty system.
But now this is sort of thefirst instance when I was
looking into it where it'sreferencing that.
So now I understand thereferee's job about how they may
default us for certainmisconduct we do, but the
default occurs when an officialdefaults someone under the point
(18:04):
penalty system.
So to understand cussing, ihave to understand the point
penalty system.
It sounds like I have to knowwhat is it right?
I mean, obviously, pointpenalty system, right, so we all
know, point taken away, gameset, match.
Is that how it goes?
I don't know.
Like, let's get into it, right?
Okay, so that's that.
(18:25):
Now there's a section calledunsportsmanlikeconduct.
All right, this is now soundinglike the section that I want to
see and read and understandwhen I think about someone
cussing someone out on the court.
Or I said cussing someone out,how about just cussing out loud,
(18:45):
okay.
And so I'm gonna try to bringup some examples at the end and
maybe you know if you'reinterested in emailing me or
responding to YouTube orwhatever, or Instagram, and
giving me some examples yourselfwhere this has happened.
But I still can't figure outall the answers based on this
(19:07):
stuff.
But let's try.
Unsportsmanlikeconduct by playeror person associated with
player.
Okay, that's sentence numberone And I wanna read it again.
Okay, under theunsportsmanlikeconduct section
in the USDA regulations, there'sa sentence in paragraph 11,
(19:28):
it's numbered 11, that saysunsportsmanlikeconductbyplayer
or person associated with player.
That's pretty interesting,right?
So you can have anunsportsmanlikeconduct of you or
an unsportsmanlikeconduct ofsomeone associated with me, my
(19:51):
coach, my significant other, mykid, my friend, right?
So that's pretty interesting.
And it says a player who entersa sanctioned tournament or
match consents to beingpenalized under the point
penalty system.
Okay, there's that pointpenalty system.
Again, that includes conduct bya person associated with the
(20:12):
player.
All right, i never quite got theanswer to this question, but
obviously that makes us thinkabout what if our buddy on the
side of the court is cussing atthe top of their lungs?
can I be penalized for thatunder the point penalty system?
It says persons who areunsportsmanlike may be asked by
(20:35):
any member of the tournamentcommittee or any official
representative of the tournamentto desist and slash or to leave
the tournament site and theymust comply.
This.
Obviously this last sentence Iread obviously applies to that
other person associated with theplayer, right?
(20:56):
That friend, that coach?
Again, i still don't know, istill don't understand the
penalty to it.
If my coach stands up and isliterally cursing out the other
player, they can be asked toleave.
But what effect does that haveon me?
(21:17):
So I don't know the answer yet.
I don't think it's everanswered.
To just give you the end result, i don't see it.
But it is interesting to sortof see that play out.
And I guess it sort of makescommon sense that that person
would be asked to leave.
They must comply per the rules.
But it shouldn't go on me,right?
(21:40):
I probably shouldn't receive apoint penalty because some jerk,
even the jerk that I knowoutside the court, is cussing
out my opponent or just cussingconstantly.
I guess that sort of makessense.
Okay, so now let's focus on us.
Okay, that was sort of theperson, as the rules state,
associated with the player.
Again, we still don't have ananswer to the question, but
(22:02):
that's okay, let's move on.
Let's talk about us.
Paragraph 18 in the USDAregulation says a player shall
not engage in a sportsman-likeconduct.
Okay, paragraph 11 already sortof told us that A player can't
do it.
A person associated with theplayer can't do it.
Now paragraph 18 focusesspecifically on the player.
The player shall not engage ina sportsman-like conduct.
(22:25):
To go on further with the rule,a player shall not, at any time
in parentheses, on or off court, close parentheses engage in a
verbal abuse, swear it inofficial, a spectator or an
opponent in a voice that can beheard by any person.
(22:47):
Okay, i gotta break this down.
And if you listen to the firstvideo I did on rules, i touched
on this briefly about breakingdown the definition, or breaking
down a rule or a penal code andlooking at the elements of that
rule And remember how I said ifthere's three parts to that
(23:07):
rule that you need to violate,if you've only violated two
parts of that rule, you didn'tviolate the rule, and so it's
important to break down anddissect each definition.
All right, so I'm gonna readthis full sentence again.
Hopefully, when I edit thisstuff, i'll be able to put it on
the screen, but for the Spotifypeople.
(23:28):
It says a player shall not.
Okay.
Remember that's important,that's an important stop already
.
A player shall not means youcan't Okay.
It doesn't mean you may or maymay not.
It says you can not.
A player shall not At any time.
Then it says on or off court,so you can't do the stuff
(23:49):
they're gonna tell you aboutnext.
On or off court, you can't doit.
A player shall not, at any time, on or off court, engage in
verbal abuse.
Okay, verbal abuse, and theydon't give us a real definition
for it, which I don't like.
Swear at an official, aspectator or an opponent in a
(24:10):
voice that can be heard by anyperson.
Okay, before I get into thatlast part of that, can be heard
by any person.
I wanna address this verbalabuse.
Swear at official, swear at aspectator part of the definition
.
Because, like I said, without,i guess, case law to explain
(24:33):
definitions and rules, the rulesare left up to interpretation.
That's why there is rules,penal codes, but also that's why
lawyers look at the cases wherethe judges interpreted those
rules or codes right.
So now we understand why caselaw is important in the law,
(24:54):
because when you just look atthis definition, you don't know
still what swearing at anofficial is.
You have a common sense idea ofwhat it is right I can probably
name five cuss words right nowthat I think we'll probably all
agree on is swearing at anofficial.
But we still don't know ifsaying jerk okay Cause I'm
(25:18):
trying to keep this PG right onmy podcast Is jerk, verbal abuse
.
If I call the referee a jerk,is that swearing at the official
?
If I say, what if I just makefun of them?
If I say you, i don't even knowa good make fun thing right now
, that's PG.
But let's just totally.
If I say you don't know how tocook, like I don't know, my
(25:41):
mind's always on food right Isthat verbal abuse?
Is that swear?
it's probably not swearing,okay Cause I don't think anyone
would interpret that as swearing.
But what if there is a ref thatthinks that's swearing?
See, this is why theinterpretation of the definition
is so important.
But again, we're gonna bemissing it because there is no
(26:02):
court of law for the USDAregulations.
I guess all we can really do issort of look at what pro
tournaments have done, butthat's ITF stuff.
Okay, i'm going maybe too longwith this one sentence, but you
know, it's the way my brainworks, right?
I hope it's helpful To startthe sentence over and then to
talk about the end of thatsentence.
(26:24):
A player shall not, at any time,on or off court okay, off court
as well Engage in verbal abuse,swearing at an official or at a
spectator, all right, totallymakes sense to me.
That part Can't just cuss outloud, can't cuss at your
opponent, you can't say the Fword at your official, you can't
(26:46):
say the F word at a spectator,right, those are easy.
But again, like I said, itstill doesn't answer the
question of what is a cuss word?
what is verbal abuse?
Now we're going to the end ofthe sentence, which I think is
even also a little moreconfusing.
It says you can't do thesethings, which is engaging in
verbal abuse, swearing at theofficial or spectator or an
(27:10):
opponent, right, you can'tengage in these things in an
opponent, in a voice that can beheard by any person.
Okay, it's a little confusing,but also I think if we give an
example, it sort of makesperfect sense And now I sound
like an idiot that it'sconfusing, but it makes perfect
(27:31):
sense.
But that's what happens whenyou do a podcast without a
script.
You just sometimes sound likean idiot and I apologize, but
the end of the sentence says youcan't do these things to an
opponent in a voice that can beheard by any person.
So this is why I think sometimeswe see in tournaments which I
guess the USTA or protournaments, and the USTA
(27:54):
obviously agrees that if someoneis cussing way back there in
their court but a ref hears it,the ref might tell the line
judge, or the line judge hearsit.
The line judge might tell theref and assess some sort of
penalty.
And it's like why The pro'slike what are you doing?
Like I'm just talking, right,but the line judge heard it.
(28:17):
So I haven't matched this up tothe ITF rules, but if it's USTA
and you have someone watchingyour match outside the fence and
you're back there mumbling inthe corner, cussing right,
saying stuff that I think, let'ssay, everyone would agree, is a
(28:37):
swear word If it can be heardby any person, even that person
outside the gate, okay, thatwould apply to this rule.
We still don't know what thepenalty is.
This is just telling us whatunsportsmanlike conduct is.
So remember, like I said, youhave to think that way too.
(28:58):
What's the problem?
What's the penalty.
So here we're trying tounderstand what is in
sportsmanlike conduct.
Well, you can't swear it inofficially, you can't swear it a
spectator, you can't commitverbal abuse and you can't swear
curse in a voice that can beheard by any person, even not
(29:21):
your opponent.
Okay, and that's applies to theperson or the example I just
gave with the person outside thefence.
And now that I read thissentence over again in my head,
i'm even getting more confused.
And if you're watching this,you're like I'm coming to you
(29:44):
for the answers and you'remaking me more confused.
I am, i apologize, but that'swhat happens when you read these
rules that aren't defined withcase law, with answers
themselves.
That's the problem.
But look at the sentences or anopponent in a voice that can be
heard by any person.
So to this, here's theconfusing part to me.
(30:07):
Now, does this last sentenceonly apply if I'm cussing at my
opponent but someone else hearsit?
Do you understand what I'msaying?
Because it says you can't, youplayer, shall not, can't engage
in these things, just swearingthis verbal abuse or against an
opponent in a voice that can beheard by any person.
(30:28):
And that whole thing is the endof the sentence, without commas
.
So I can't swear against myopponent makes sense, but I
can't even do it in a voice thatcan be heard by any person.
So how about?
I'm just back there and notswearing at my opponent, i'm
swearing at myself, you, son ofa F and whatever, and someone
hears it.
(30:48):
Does that fall in this rule orthe end of this rule?
I'm not swearing an official,not swearing at a spectator.
I'm not swearing against myopponent.
It is a voice that can be heardby any person.
We're pretending the person'soutside the fence listening to
us and watching her match, butis that unsportsmanlike conduct?
(31:09):
when I'm swearing againstmyself, i guess it's verbal
abuse.
I still don't understand thatfully.
So let's go on a little more,which we'll answer this a little
better, and then we'll talkabout the point penalty system
and hopefully bring all thishome, all right.
So sometimes we're just leftwith more questions or, as we're
(31:33):
learning this, it's good to askmore questions and to think of
more examples, and you don'tnecessarily have to come to the
right answer yet, but hopefullyat the end you will.
So next under, i think, stillparagraph 18, under B,
subheading B, it says visible oraudible profanity or obscenity.
(31:57):
Says use if using profanity.
Use profanity or insulting,abusive or obscene language in
any way that may be heard by anyperson, or use obscene,
insulting or abusive gestures?
All right, so this is helpingus to define things a little
(32:19):
better.
And again, obviously I'm tryingto read you the stuff I found
in order And so you're sort ofgoing through the same process I
did when I was looking it up.
I think it's more helpful thatway to sort of break down the
research and the process insteadof just giving you the end,
(32:42):
because I guess I can get onhere in 30 seconds and go here's
the answer.
But if you're listening andyou're interested, it's better
to go through it slowly this way.
But this sentence I just readhelps answer some of the
questions I just went over a fewminutes ago.
Right, and it says visibleThat's the one we were talking
(33:02):
about earlier, with handgestures, audible obviously,
coming out of my mouth, metalking screaming.
Visible or audible.
Profanity or obscenity?
Okay, use profanity orinsulting, abusive, insulting.
There you go.
Remember I said does jerk applyfor verbal abuse?
(33:24):
That I think can be consideredinsulting.
So the use of profanity orinsulting or abusive or obscene
language in any way that may beheard by any person, including
abusive gestures.
Okay, this definition is goodbecause I think it really gives
(33:45):
us a good world of understandingof what is this?
what's the answer?
Can you cuss?
Can you cuss out loud?
Can you cuss in the corner?
What if someone hears it?
Can you make hand gestures?
That sounds like all of thisstuff is unsportsmanlike conduct
.
Okay, so at least now I thinkwe're understanding All of this
is unsportsmanlike conduct.
(34:06):
We still don't know if a veryspecific example might fall
under insulting.
Is jerk insulting?
Maybe to one person, it's notmaybe to another person.
It is.
That's where it gets a littledicey, okay, so I think you just
have to not say things likethat, and then, if you do, the
(34:27):
ref gets to answer that questionon the court.
All right.
So that's a good coupleparagraphs about unsportsmanlike
conduct.
That's good.
Let's go into the point penaltysystem a little and understand
what that is.
And this one's pretty good.
It says the purpose of thesystem.
What's the purpose of thispoint penalty system?
(34:47):
The purpose of the system areto deter unsportsmanlike conduct
by a player and personsassociated with those players.
It gives us some other stuff,but that's the point of it,
right?
A lot of these things.
I call them punishments.
You'll find, if you are alawyer you'll routinely read
(35:10):
that these things are neverpunishments, they're just to
simply help deter.
It always cracks me up a little, i guess, being a defense
lawyer, when they say thingslike that, because it's
obviously a punishment.
But you will find that here tooIt says these things, though
again, it says it right here.
I did cut and paste this Theobjective of the point penalty
system is not to punish but tosecure compliance.
(35:34):
Anyways, that's me Just bring itup, stuff that I have to deal
with sometimes.
It is to deter unsportsmanlikeconduct.
Of course it is to securecompliance, but it says it's not
to punish, but obviously theymust punish.
So I never understood why theywrite things like that.
Okay, now this gets a littleconfusing.
(35:56):
Next, because under the pointpenalty system paragraphs they
talk about this thing calledflagrant violations.
Because I haven't even told youyet what the point the point
penalty offenses are Right.
I haven't told you what happenswhen you do these
unsportsmanlike things.
But before I get there therewas a paragraph about flagrant
(36:22):
violations And I was veryinterested to read that flagrant
unsportsmanlike acts by aplayer or person associated with
a player may result in animmediate default.
What did I do after I read thisparagraph?
(36:43):
I instantly control F flagrant,flagrant, flagrant Lee,
flagrantly unsportsmanlikeeverything I can think of.
And there was no other instanceof this word coming up.
I hate that There has to be adefinition in the rules.
(37:06):
The USDA has to add adefinition for flagrant, because
if there is a paragraph in therules that allows a referee to
default you for one single actbecause the referee considers it
flagrant, i think that's anissue.
It is an issue because oneperson might consider something
(37:31):
flagrant while another personmight not, and I don't think
that's fair.
I just like things to be fair.
Fair means applied to everyonethe same, and if we don't
understand what the wordflagrant is, it can't be applied
to everyone the same.
So that's where I findsometimes you need a definitions
(37:52):
portion, and if I'm missing it,actually if someone knows it, i
would really love to hear it.
So I don't mind being wrong, ijust couldn't find it myself.
Okay, little recap point penaltysystem.
Here's the point of the pointpenalty system, or the purpose
That's a better way to say itThe purpose of the point penalty
(38:12):
system.
There is such things asflagrant violations which, if
you do engage in a flagrantlyunsportsmanlike act or flagrant
violation, you can beimmediately defaulted, before we
even get into the point penaltysystem.
I guess it's still part of thepoint penalty system, but it's
just interesting to read that.
All right, let's go into thetable, table 14 of the point
(38:38):
penalty system.
In that table it discussesthings called code violations,
it discusses things calledmisconduct, and then it tells us
the penalties for these things.
Okay, so now we're reallygetting the answer, finally, to
the question of can you or can'tyou cuss.
(38:59):
Because if there is nopunishment to the rule, then
let's be real, you can do it.
If the rule says you can't cussbut there's no punishment for
cussing, what's going to stop aperson from cussing?
That's a better way of sayingit.
I don't mean to say you can doit.
What I mean to say is if thereis no punishment, what's
(39:23):
stopping a person from doing it?
You can't stop it.
You can't say that's not nice.
Tradition says you can't dothat.
So you have to know whatapplies under the point penalty
system.
Misconduct is one of thosethings that apply under the
point penalty system.
Code violations are like, foran example of a code violation,
(39:46):
not resuming play within 30seconds.
Okay, we don't have a timer outthere, but you know, if you're
playing a match you feel likethey're taking too long, you
might call a ref out.
You might say ref.
There's a rule I'm sure you'reaware of that says that they
can't take longer than 30seconds between points.
Time them, they're taking likea minute.
Right, that's a code violation.
(40:06):
There's punishments for codeviolations.
I didn't research it too much,but I'm just trying to give you
an example of that.
So now let's look at thepenalties for misconduct.
It says penalty violationsshall be penalized as follows
The first defense point.
The second offense, game.
(40:28):
The third offense default.
For some reason I alwaysthought the third offense was
the set, but I guess it's not.
It's point game match.
And now, thinking back on it,there's that famous Mackin row
and I forget who he was playingI don't know if it was US Open
or on grass where he just wentnuts and then the match was
(40:49):
defaulted And I don't rememberif he might have misunderstood
the rule.
To tell you the truth, alsobecause I remember the video.
I got to find it, but Iremember the video where he
thought he sort of had anotherchance to be allowed obnoxious
jerk and cuss And the referee onthe sitting in the chai chair
(41:11):
just defaulted him.
So game match.
I got to find that in referencea little better here.
Dang it, i should haveresearched that before I did
this.
But anyways, the point.
Penalty violations are asfollows First offense point.
Second offense game.
Third offense default.
Remember, the only other hiccuphere is that flagrant violation
(41:34):
which you can be defaultedautomatically.
I don't know what that is yetand it never gets answered here.
But now we understand if I'mengaging in misconduct.
We now understand whatmisconduct is.
When we talked about theworking definitions right Under
the visible and audibleprofanity and obscenity, we know
(41:55):
that you can't do this stuff onthe court or on the court.
We know you can't do it to anofficial, to your opponent.
You can't even do it to aperson who's listening outside
the fence.
So we now understand all thesethings are considered misconduct
.
Abuse.
Cussing is a form of all thisstuff.
The audible cussing, the verbal, the gestures right, the
(42:20):
obscene gestures.
That's all part of this.
You can't do any of it.
The rules say And the penaltyis point violation, game
violation, or am I saying thatright?
Yeah, point, game default.
And if you do something badenough that's considered
flagrant, you can get a defaulteven within the first violation.
(42:41):
So I hope that helped you.
I tried to keep this one alittle shorter.
It still ended up being 43minutes.
I apologize for that, but Ihope that helped you understand
that you cannot cuss on thecourt.
But what is cussing Uh-huh?
Anyways, all right, well, havea great time and let me do a
(43:03):
little song for you and thanks.
See you next time.
That was loud, hey, everyone, i miss with the sound
here a little, so it doesn'tblow my eardrums.
So if you're ever thinkingabout starting a podcast,
there's this website calledAudio Jungle and that's where I
(00:24):
got this song from.
You know, there's a lot ofthings like this, just beats,
instrumentals.
A lot of sounds too.
Actually, if I look up tenorsounds, there's ball balls
hitting the floor, peopleserving, people grunting.
It's really cool.
You can do a lot with it.
So go on Audio Jungle and youcan.
(00:45):
Just they let you buy.
I think this song cost me likethree bucks or something and you
can reuse it for as many timesas you want.
Really cool, but anyway, solet's get into it here.
I'm excited to talk aboutanother set of rules that I
actually put out, a littleInstagram poll.
Maybe like 12 people responded,i think.
(01:07):
But hey, that's fine.
And I asked does anyone want meto research the foot fault
rules or look into whether ornot you can cuss on the court?
And obviously we know theanswer to the cuss on the court
thing, right, and we also sortof know the answer to the foot
fault thing.
You can't do it, but I thoughtit would be interesting if
(01:28):
everyone does pick the cussingthing to sort of look into it a
little more.
Like what is cussing?
I hope the rules get into that.
What's the penalties for it?
right, because that's important.
So when you're looking at rules, if you're not focusing also on
what are the penalties, thenyou're not truly understanding
the rule, because maybe you know, especially in the law, maybe
(01:48):
there's a different rule thatyou want your client to violate,
right, i mean not to violate,but to be found guilty of.
Like, oh, if they get foundguilty of this one, it comes
with X plus two, but if they getfound guilty of this other
little one, it's only Xpunishment.
(02:09):
So the punishments areimportant to look at.
So, long story short, theInstagram followers that
followed me and voted ended upchoosing cussing, and so I
looked into it and that's whatI'm going to be doing here a
little, and I will say that theanswer is pretty simple.
(02:31):
Obviously, like I said before,you can't cuss on the court, But
we don't really know what thatmeans, right?
Does it mean you can't flipsomeone off?
Does it mean you can't mumbleunder your breath A cuss word?
can you mumble in differentlanguages?
Right, there's a lot of openquestions that I didn't know
(02:54):
before researching this And, tobe a little honest, i feel the
more I get into these rules I'ma little unsatisfied with them,
the complexity of them or theway they're written.
You know, i'm not trying to beall you know, i don't know Rude
about it, i guess, because Idon't.
I didn't make this podcast tobe like that, you know, which is
(03:16):
why I intentionally try to talkabout nice things, family
things, good things, but I can'thelp but just feel like these
rules sometimes get a littleconfusing and if, even if
they're not confusing, i can'thelp but feel that they're not
fully giving me the answer thatI'm looking for.
You'll see when I get into it,you know today regarding the
(03:37):
cussing rule, so I won't go intoa crazy tangent like last time.
If you listen to my lastYouTube and this one, i'm going
to try to put this one onSpotify.
So I don't, i'm not going toreference videos like I did last
time, which made me not able toput it on Spotify, but this one
I'm going to edit after withsome pictures, maybe throw the
rules up on the screen for you.
(03:58):
If you're watching on YouTubeand if you're listening in
Spotify, it's going to be fine.
You're not missing anythingreally.
but, like I said last time, iwent on a crazy tangent about
the ITF rules and who made upthe ITF and the Titanic.
It was pretty nuts actually.
When I listened to it later I'mlike what am I talking about?
but I just was interested inthe little extra thing, so
(04:18):
that's why I kept going off.
The only little tangent I'mgoing to go off on here is the
more we get into these rules,the more you need to understand
the book.
It's called the Friend at Courtand, like I said, you can look
it up on the USTA website.
It's called the Friend at Courtand I guess it's your friend at
(04:41):
court like on the tennis court,i guess.
So even the name is a littleconfusing to me.
It seems like every yearthey're sort of updating it, so
it's important to get the latestupdated version the 2023 Friend
at Court Within that book.
The Friend at Court.
I tried to explain this lasttime, but I'm understanding it
(05:02):
even more.
The more I look into more rulesbecause I didn't really get it
Last time is the first time Iever opened that book, about a
week ago The more I open thebook and understand it I'm now
understanding it better wherethe book has the ITF rules, the
rules that are sort of there forthe ITF tournaments, the pro
players.
The book has USTA rules for us,the league matches and probably
(05:29):
the rules that would apply.
The USTA rules would apply toour friendly matches too, like
you know, matches that you setup with a friend.
I guess you can make up anyrules you want because it's
technically not USTA regulated.
That would be interesting,right, sort of make up your own
street rules before you go intoa tennis match.
I like that actually.
I never thought about that.
(05:51):
But the other confusing partwith this Friend at Court book
is there's something called thecode and it's right in the
middle of the book, i think, ifI remember how it is, because I
only look it up digitally.
But there's this thing calledthe code and it's like that
thing really throws me offBecause it is providing
(06:16):
providing more informationbeyond what the rules are.
But that's actually a littlescary too if you think about it.
I don't like that If I can'tlook at the penal code to see
what I violated when I'm drivingand doing something wrong and I
have to look at a differentbook.
(06:36):
That's a little scary.
It's scary for the people whomight violate those rules
because it's not clear.
That's scary when rules aren'tclear.
It's also scary for the lawyerswho are defending those people,
because I think there'sdifferent ways to interpret
things when there's multiplesources to look at.
(06:57):
Okay, so I think it gets alittle confusing.
But again, this is my tangentpart.
So I apologize and I am gonnaget into the cussing part, which
won't take long.
But there's a little preface orpreface.
I'm not really sure how you sayit, i always call it a preface.
But the preface is it says thecode.
(07:20):
Remember, i'm telling you aboutthe code.
There's three parts to thefriend at court ITF rules, usta
regulations and rules and thecode.
And it says in the code thecode is not part of the ITF
rules.
Players must follow the codeexcept to the extent which an
official assumes some of theirresponsibilities.
(07:40):
Okay, that's a little weird tome already.
And then it says the principlesin the code apply in cases not
specifically covered by the ITFrules or the USTA regulations.
Okay, so again, there's theseITF rules, there's these USTA
regulations, and then they'readmittedly telling us that those
(08:02):
are sort of lacking in somerespects because they had to
draft this thing called the codeand there's literally a line in
the code that says theprinciples in the code apply in
cases not specifically coveredby the ITF rules and USTA
regulations.
Again, it's a little confusing.
I'm still trying to get it.
Hopefully someone maybe willschool me one day and explain
(08:24):
why this is done this way.
But when you read the code,it's helpful if you just read
the code by itself, because itgoes into sportsmanship policy,
it goes into things like that,and there's a paragraph in there
that talks about the unwrittenrules and tradition of tennis.
That stuff's important, right,because tennis is a fun game,
(08:45):
it's a community game, you getto know your neighbor, kind of
thing.
But again, it doesn't help mybrain when I'm trying to find an
answer to a question And Idon't like there's some thing
here that says here's theunwritten rules, it's like, wow,
that's messing with my brain.
Okay, so let's get past thetangent, let's now go into.
(09:06):
When I opened up that friend atcourt, i liked looking at the
digital version, obviouslybecause I can control F, right.
So I go control F on mykeyboard and I start control
F-ing things.
F-ing things.
Sorry, that sounded bad.
I started to control F thingslike cussing, cursing, flagrant
misconduct, unsportsmanlikeconduct, code violations, all
(09:29):
these things, right, because Idon't wanna miss something.
I can look at the book fresheach time and go page one, page
two, page three, but I choose tocontrol F these types of things
first to see where I'm going totry to make sure I'm not
missing anything.
If I'm just skimming, right,it's a couple hundred pages,
this friend at court.
So you can't really do thatevery time.
(09:52):
So I started to control F andwe'll mess that up again, and I
started finding the words that Ithought, okay, i wanna focus on
these unsportsmanlike conduct.
Then there's something calledmisconduct, sort of the same
right, little confusing Thepoint penalty system, like
(10:13):
what's gonna happen when you dothis bad thing.
And then I do wanna touch onthe hindrance rules just a
little, because I think it's agood background going into then
the misconduct.
But let me get into that.
But that was sort of thethought process and the research
process that I went to for thisparticular one.
So hopefully by the end of thiswe'll find out the basic
(10:36):
question of can we cuss on thecourt?
Like I said, we sort of allknow the answer, but it's good
to sort of read the rules outloud for me to look at them all,
to see what the penalties are,to see how those rules apply.
Like I said at the beginning, ithink we're all gonna be a
little unsatisfied because itdoesn't help answer some very
(10:56):
specific questions that I had.
Like, if I gave an example ofsomeone doing something on the
court, i couldn't necessarilyfind the answer here And I hate
that.
And if it's gonna be up to theinterpretation of the ref,
that's tough right, because oneperson might say this, the other
person might say this, and Idon't like that kind of stuff.
(11:17):
Anyways, let's go a little intothe hindrance rules.
We all sort of know, like thehindrance right, an example of
that.
You can't talk during the point, okay, so that doesn't
necessarily match up withcussing right.
That's different And we weresort of assuming people are
(11:37):
cussing not in the middle ofswinging right.
When I was thinking aboutsomeone cussing on the court, i
wasn't necessarily thinkingsomeone in the middle of a serve
saying yeah, son of a, thatkind of thing.
It was more like talking trashon the changeover or if someone
hits a lucky shot, you cuss themout, things like that.
(11:57):
But I did find it interestingthat the hindrance issues and
the hindrance rules apply.
There is hindrance issues withtalking during points, okay.
So I think there's ways thereto even get you sort of busted
when you're talking, even ifit's not cussing right.
That goes into the hindrancerule.
So I didn't really researchthat enough, but I thought it
(12:19):
was important to at least bringup I found some other hindrance
rules about body movement.
Okay now, the only reason againI'm bringing this up is because
later on I'm gonna talk to youabout gestures.
Oh, i almost did it.
Did I do it on camera?
I might have done itsubconsciously, but gestures,
where is that?
(12:39):
misconduct, unsportsmanlikeconduct, kind of thing.
So the hindrance issues or thehindrance rules also touch on
body movement And it says like aplayer may faint with their
body while the ball is in play.
However, other things likewaving your arms, it says
stamping your feet I don't know,maybe I'm a moron, i always say
(13:01):
stomping.
I don't know, maybe now Irealize it sounds dumb, but it
says these things aren't allowedStamping your feet, waving your
arms, but player fainting thebody, that's okay, right, that
makes sense.
So a lot of these things domake sense And I always say this
too.
In my world of law, like a lotof the rules just make sense.
They're common sense.
(13:21):
There's only some nuance tosome very particular rules.
Talk under the hindrance issuesa little more.
I'll just touch on this again.
There's some parts that talkabout unintentional acts versus
intentional acts.
I like focusing on that alittle too prior to getting into
(13:42):
the cussing, because it helpsme understand sort of where the
USTA's brain was when they weredrafting these regulations The
unintentional whoops versus theintentional act.
Obviously the cussing's gonnabe more on the intentional side.
Okay, so this is just all goodstuff for us to understand, and
each time you research a ruleyou want to sort of get this
(14:05):
other stuff just to make sureyou're really understanding the
whole world of the rule you'reresearching.
So I like that.
I like looking in the hindrancestuff.
I like looking into what is thecode a little more just to see
if I can help give myself sortof a background, coming into
this very new right, coming intothis where I've only known this
(14:25):
book exists for a week, eventhough I've been playing tennis
literally my whole life.
Maybe you feel the same way,right?
It's like, have any of you everlooked in the USTA regulations.
Maybe some of you have.
Do you even know there's a bookout there called Friend at
Court?
Again, i didn't, okay.
So I'm staying away now fromthe code, i'm going straight to
(14:48):
the USTA regulations, part ofthe Friend at Court book.
Obviously, these are the onesthat apply to us, the USTA
tournaments we play andobviously the league matches
that we play, okay.
So I'm gonna throw out somethings here And then at the end
(15:09):
I'm hoping to sort of bring itall home, because I'm gonna
throw out just some parts at youAnd then it's gonna answer some
questions, but then it's sortof just like giving you parts of
the recipe and you're not trulyunderstanding what it is, and
at the end, hopefully, we'lljust put it all together, right,
and it'll make sense, it'llmake the thing we want to make.
(15:30):
So under the USTA regulations,there's a section for referee
responsibilities after the drawis made, right?
So after the draw is made, theseedings, et cetera, there was
this section called defaultingplayers, and so, again, thought
this was interesting, right.
So if we're trying tounderstand cussing, we're trying
to understand the penalties ofcussing.
(15:50):
It's nice to read moreinformation about the ref's
responsibilities and when can't,they default people.
So that's why I specificallycut and paste this particular
part of the USDA regulations.
So it says default players.
The referee may default a player.
(16:11):
Okay, that says may, okay.
That's another interestingthing in the law.
I always tell people what I'mtrying to explain to them a
particular code or rule.
Does the rule say must?
Does the rule say may okay,this one says may.
Sounds like it's a choice forthe ref.
If it says may, you don't haveto right.
The referee may default aplayer for cause, which includes
(16:35):
, but is not limited totardiness comma, and here's the
one that applies to usmisconduct on court or off court
.
Ooh, off court, alsointeresting.
So that's good to know.
The ref has the responsibility,or may have the responsibility,
(16:56):
to default to us when we docertain things on or off the
court.
All right, good, good, good.
So, continuing with the USDAregulations, there's a section
called conducting the tournamentand there's tables there.
It's got a little confusing tome too, i think, the point of
the tables.
We're trying to sort of givethe reader a summary and sort of
(17:19):
you know how tables are.
Sometimes they'll explain it toyou in paragraph form, but then
give you a table, so it's notnecessarily in conflict with the
paragraph parts, but to me itgot a little confusing, but
anyway.
So let's go to table 10 underdefault.
Okay, a little more about thedefaults.
It says a default occurs whenan official defaults a player
(17:42):
under the point penalty system.
Okay, good, i mentioned that atthe beginning, right, the point
penalty system.
But now this is sort of thefirst instance when I was
looking into it where it'sreferencing that.
So now I understand thereferee's job about how they may
default us for certainmisconduct we do, but the
default occurs when an officialdefaults someone under the point
(18:04):
penalty system.
So to understand cussing, ihave to understand the point
penalty system.
It sounds like I have to knowwhat is it right?
I mean, obviously, pointpenalty system, right, so we all
know, point taken away, gameset, match.
Is that how it goes?
I don't know.
Like, let's get into it, right?
Okay, so that's that.
(18:25):
Now there's a section calledunsportsmanlikeconduct.
All right, this is now soundinglike the section that I want to
see and read and understandwhen I think about someone
cussing someone out on the court.
Or I said cussing someone out,how about just cussing out loud,
(18:45):
okay.
And so I'm gonna try to bringup some examples at the end and
maybe you know if you'reinterested in emailing me or
responding to YouTube orwhatever, or Instagram, and
giving me some examples yourselfwhere this has happened.
But I still can't figure outall the answers based on this
(19:07):
stuff.
But let's try.
Unsportsmanlikeconduct by playeror person associated with
player.
Okay, that's sentence numberone And I wanna read it again.
Okay, under theunsportsmanlikeconduct section
in the USDA regulations, there'sa sentence in paragraph 11,
(19:28):
it's numbered 11, that saysunsportsmanlikeconductbyplayer
or person associated with player.
That's pretty interesting,right?
So you can have anunsportsmanlikeconduct of you or
an unsportsmanlikeconduct ofsomeone associated with me, my
(19:51):
coach, my significant other, mykid, my friend, right?
So that's pretty interesting.
And it says a player who entersa sanctioned tournament or
match consents to beingpenalized under the point
penalty system.
Okay, there's that pointpenalty system.
Again, that includes conduct bya person associated with the
(20:12):
player.
All right, i never quite got theanswer to this question, but
obviously that makes us thinkabout what if our buddy on the
side of the court is cussing atthe top of their lungs?
can I be penalized for thatunder the point penalty system?
It says persons who areunsportsmanlike may be asked by
(20:35):
any member of the tournamentcommittee or any official
representative of the tournamentto desist and slash or to leave
the tournament site and theymust comply.
This.
Obviously this last sentence Iread obviously applies to that
other person associated with theplayer, right?
(20:56):
That friend, that coach?
Again, i still don't know, istill don't understand the
penalty to it.
If my coach stands up and isliterally cursing out the other
player, they can be asked toleave.
But what effect does that haveon me?
(21:17):
So I don't know the answer yet.
I don't think it's everanswered.
To just give you the end result, i don't see it.
But it is interesting to sortof see that play out.
And I guess it sort of makescommon sense that that person
would be asked to leave.
They must comply per the rules.
But it shouldn't go on me,right?
(21:40):
I probably shouldn't receive apoint penalty because some jerk,
even the jerk that I knowoutside the court, is cussing
out my opponent or just cussingconstantly.
I guess that sort of makessense.
Okay, so now let's focus on us.
Okay, that was sort of theperson, as the rules state,
associated with the player.
Again, we still don't have ananswer to the question, but
(22:02):
that's okay, let's move on.
Let's talk about us.
Paragraph 18 in the USDAregulation says a player shall
not engage in a sportsman-likeconduct.
Okay, paragraph 11 already sortof told us that A player can't
do it.
A person associated with theplayer can't do it.
Now paragraph 18 focusesspecifically on the player.
The player shall not engage ina sportsman-like conduct.
(22:25):
To go on further with the rule,a player shall not, at any time
in parentheses, on or off court, close parentheses engage in a
verbal abuse, swear it inofficial, a spectator or an
opponent in a voice that can beheard by any person.
(22:47):
Okay, i gotta break this down.
And if you listen to the firstvideo I did on rules, i touched
on this briefly about breakingdown the definition, or breaking
down a rule or a penal code andlooking at the elements of that
rule And remember how I said ifthere's three parts to that
(23:07):
rule that you need to violate,if you've only violated two
parts of that rule, you didn'tviolate the rule, and so it's
important to break down anddissect each definition.
All right, so I'm gonna readthis full sentence again.
Hopefully, when I edit thisstuff, i'll be able to put it on
the screen, but for the Spotifypeople.
(23:28):
It says a player shall not.
Okay.
Remember that's important,that's an important stop already
.
A player shall not means youcan't Okay.
It doesn't mean you may or maymay not.
It says you can not.
A player shall not At any time.
Then it says on or off court,so you can't do the stuff
(23:49):
they're gonna tell you aboutnext.
On or off court, you can't doit.
A player shall not, at any time, on or off court, engage in
verbal abuse.
Okay, verbal abuse, and theydon't give us a real definition
for it, which I don't like.
Swear at an official, aspectator or an opponent in a
(24:10):
voice that can be heard by anyperson.
Okay, before I get into thatlast part of that, can be heard
by any person.
I wanna address this verbalabuse.
Swear at official, swear at aspectator part of the definition
.
Because, like I said, without,i guess, case law to explain
(24:33):
definitions and rules, the rulesare left up to interpretation.
That's why there is rules,penal codes, but also that's why
lawyers look at the cases wherethe judges interpreted those
rules or codes right.
So now we understand why caselaw is important in the law,
(24:54):
because when you just look atthis definition, you don't know
still what swearing at anofficial is.
You have a common sense idea ofwhat it is right I can probably
name five cuss words right nowthat I think we'll probably all
agree on is swearing at anofficial.
But we still don't know ifsaying jerk okay Cause I'm
(25:18):
trying to keep this PG right onmy podcast Is jerk, verbal abuse
.
If I call the referee a jerk,is that swearing at the official
?
If I say, what if I just makefun of them?
If I say you, i don't even knowa good make fun thing right now
, that's PG.
But let's just totally.
If I say you don't know how tocook, like I don't know, my
(25:41):
mind's always on food right Isthat verbal abuse?
Is that swear?
it's probably not swearing,okay Cause I don't think anyone
would interpret that as swearing.
But what if there is a ref thatthinks that's swearing?
See, this is why theinterpretation of the definition
is so important.
But again, we're gonna bemissing it because there is no
(26:02):
court of law for the USDAregulations.
I guess all we can really do issort of look at what pro
tournaments have done, butthat's ITF stuff.
Okay, i'm going maybe too longwith this one sentence, but you
know, it's the way my brainworks, right?
I hope it's helpful To startthe sentence over and then to
talk about the end of thatsentence.
(26:24):
A player shall not, at any time,on or off court okay, off court
as well Engage in verbal abuse,swearing at an official or at a
spectator, all right, totallymakes sense to me.
That part Can't just cuss outloud, can't cuss at your
opponent, you can't say the Fword at your official, you can't
(26:46):
say the F word at a spectator,right, those are easy.
But again, like I said, itstill doesn't answer the
question of what is a cuss word?
what is verbal abuse?
Now we're going to the end ofthe sentence, which I think is
even also a little moreconfusing.
It says you can't do thesethings, which is engaging in
verbal abuse, swearing at theofficial or spectator or an
(27:10):
opponent, right, you can'tengage in these things in an
opponent, in a voice that can beheard by any person.
Okay, it's a little confusing,but also I think if we give an
example, it sort of makesperfect sense And now I sound
like an idiot that it'sconfusing, but it makes perfect
(27:31):
sense.
But that's what happens whenyou do a podcast without a
script.
You just sometimes sound likean idiot and I apologize, but
the end of the sentence says youcan't do these things to an
opponent in a voice that can beheard by any person.
So this is why I think sometimeswe see in tournaments which I
guess the USTA or protournaments, and the USTA
(27:54):
obviously agrees that if someoneis cussing way back there in
their court but a ref hears it,the ref might tell the line
judge, or the line judge hearsit.
The line judge might tell theref and assess some sort of
penalty.
And it's like why The pro'slike what are you doing?
Like I'm just talking, right,but the line judge heard it.
(28:17):
So I haven't matched this up tothe ITF rules, but if it's USTA
and you have someone watchingyour match outside the fence and
you're back there mumbling inthe corner, cussing right,
saying stuff that I think, let'ssay, everyone would agree, is a
(28:37):
swear word If it can be heardby any person, even that person
outside the gate, okay, thatwould apply to this rule.
We still don't know what thepenalty is.
This is just telling us whatunsportsmanlike conduct is.
So remember, like I said, youhave to think that way too.
(28:58):
What's the problem?
What's the penalty.
So here we're trying tounderstand what is in
sportsmanlike conduct.
Well, you can't swear it inofficially, you can't swear it a
spectator, you can't commitverbal abuse and you can't swear
curse in a voice that can beheard by any person, even not
(29:21):
your opponent.
Okay, and that's applies to theperson or the example I just
gave with the person outside thefence.
And now that I read thissentence over again in my head,
i'm even getting more confused.
And if you're watching this,you're like I'm coming to you
(29:44):
for the answers and you'remaking me more confused.
I am, i apologize, but that'swhat happens when you read these
rules that aren't defined withcase law, with answers
themselves.
That's the problem.
But look at the sentences or anopponent in a voice that can be
heard by any person.
So to this, here's theconfusing part to me.
(30:07):
Now, does this last sentenceonly apply if I'm cussing at my
opponent but someone else hearsit?
Do you understand what I'msaying?
Because it says you can't, youplayer, shall not, can't engage
in these things, just swearingthis verbal abuse or against an
opponent in a voice that can beheard by any person.
(30:28):
And that whole thing is the endof the sentence, without commas
.
So I can't swear against myopponent makes sense, but I
can't even do it in a voice thatcan be heard by any person.
So how about?
I'm just back there and notswearing at my opponent, i'm
swearing at myself, you, son ofa F and whatever, and someone
hears it.
(30:48):
Does that fall in this rule orthe end of this rule?
I'm not swearing an official,not swearing at a spectator.
I'm not swearing against myopponent.
It is a voice that can be heardby any person.
We're pretending the person'soutside the fence listening to
us and watching her match, butis that unsportsmanlike conduct?
(31:09):
when I'm swearing againstmyself, i guess it's verbal
abuse.
I still don't understand thatfully.
So let's go on a little more,which we'll answer this a little
better, and then we'll talkabout the point penalty system
and hopefully bring all thishome, all right.
So sometimes we're just leftwith more questions or, as we're
(31:33):
learning this, it's good to askmore questions and to think of
more examples, and you don'tnecessarily have to come to the
right answer yet, but hopefullyat the end you will.
So next under, i think, stillparagraph 18, under B,
subheading B, it says visible oraudible profanity or obscenity.
(31:57):
Says use if using profanity.
Use profanity or insulting,abusive or obscene language in
any way that may be heard by anyperson, or use obscene,
insulting or abusive gestures?
All right, so this is helpingus to define things a little
(32:19):
better.
And again, obviously I'm tryingto read you the stuff I found
in order And so you're sort ofgoing through the same process I
did when I was looking it up.
I think it's more helpful thatway to sort of break down the
research and the process insteadof just giving you the end,
(32:42):
because I guess I can get onhere in 30 seconds and go here's
the answer.
But if you're listening andyou're interested, it's better
to go through it slowly this way.
But this sentence I just readhelps answer some of the
questions I just went over a fewminutes ago.
Right, and it says visibleThat's the one we were talking
(33:02):
about earlier, with handgestures, audible obviously,
coming out of my mouth, metalking screaming.
Visible or audible.
Profanity or obscenity?
Okay, use profanity orinsulting, abusive, insulting.
There you go.
Remember I said does jerk applyfor verbal abuse?
(33:24):
That I think can be consideredinsulting.
So the use of profanity orinsulting or abusive or obscene
language in any way that may beheard by any person, including
abusive gestures.
Okay, this definition is goodbecause I think it really gives
(33:45):
us a good world of understandingof what is this?
what's the answer?
Can you cuss?
Can you cuss out loud?
Can you cuss in the corner?
What if someone hears it?
Can you make hand gestures?
That sounds like all of thisstuff is unsportsmanlike conduct
.
Okay, so at least now I thinkwe're understanding All of this
is unsportsmanlike conduct.
(34:06):
We still don't know if a veryspecific example might fall
under insulting.
Is jerk insulting?
Maybe to one person, it's notmaybe to another person.
It is.
That's where it gets a littledicey, okay, so I think you just
have to not say things likethat, and then, if you do, the
(34:27):
ref gets to answer that questionon the court.
All right.
So that's a good coupleparagraphs about unsportsmanlike
conduct.
That's good.
Let's go into the point penaltysystem a little and understand
what that is.
And this one's pretty good.
It says the purpose of thesystem.
What's the purpose of thispoint penalty system?
(34:47):
The purpose of the system areto deter unsportsmanlike conduct
by a player and personsassociated with those players.
It gives us some other stuff,but that's the point of it,
right?
A lot of these things.
I call them punishments.
You'll find, if you are alawyer you'll routinely read
(35:10):
that these things are neverpunishments, they're just to
simply help deter.
It always cracks me up a little, i guess, being a defense
lawyer, when they say thingslike that, because it's
obviously a punishment.
But you will find that here tooIt says these things, though
again, it says it right here.
I did cut and paste this Theobjective of the point penalty
system is not to punish but tosecure compliance.
(35:34):
Anyways, that's me Just bring itup, stuff that I have to deal
with sometimes.
It is to deter unsportsmanlikeconduct.
Of course it is to securecompliance, but it says it's not
to punish, but obviously theymust punish.
So I never understood why theywrite things like that.
Okay, now this gets a littleconfusing.
(35:56):
Next, because under the pointpenalty system paragraphs they
talk about this thing calledflagrant violations.
Because I haven't even told youyet what the point the point
penalty offenses are Right.
I haven't told you what happenswhen you do these
unsportsmanlike things.
But before I get there therewas a paragraph about flagrant
(36:22):
violations And I was veryinterested to read that flagrant
unsportsmanlike acts by aplayer or person associated with
a player may result in animmediate default.
What did I do after I read thisparagraph?
(36:43):
I instantly control F flagrant,flagrant, flagrant Lee,
flagrantly unsportsmanlikeeverything I can think of.
And there was no other instanceof this word coming up.
I hate that There has to be adefinition in the rules.
(37:06):
The USDA has to add adefinition for flagrant, because
if there is a paragraph in therules that allows a referee to
default you for one single actbecause the referee considers it
flagrant, i think that's anissue.
It is an issue because oneperson might consider something
(37:31):
flagrant while another personmight not, and I don't think
that's fair.
I just like things to be fair.
Fair means applied to everyonethe same, and if we don't
understand what the wordflagrant is, it can't be applied
to everyone the same.
So that's where I findsometimes you need a definitions
(37:52):
portion, and if I'm missing it,actually if someone knows it, i
would really love to hear it.
So I don't mind being wrong, ijust couldn't find it myself.
Okay, little recap point penaltysystem.
Here's the point of the pointpenalty system, or the purpose
That's a better way to say itThe purpose of the point penalty
(38:12):
system.
There is such things asflagrant violations which, if
you do engage in a flagrantlyunsportsmanlike act or flagrant
violation, you can beimmediately defaulted, before we
even get into the point penaltysystem.
I guess it's still part of thepoint penalty system, but it's
just interesting to read that.
All right, let's go into thetable, table 14 of the point
(38:38):
penalty system.
In that table it discussesthings called code violations,
it discusses things calledmisconduct, and then it tells us
the penalties for these things.
Okay, so now we're reallygetting the answer, finally, to
the question of can you or can'tyou cuss.
(38:59):
Because if there is nopunishment to the rule, then
let's be real, you can do it.
If the rule says you can't cussbut there's no punishment for
cussing, what's going to stop aperson from cussing?
That's a better way of sayingit.
I don't mean to say you can doit.
What I mean to say is if thereis no punishment, what's
(39:23):
stopping a person from doing it?
You can't stop it.
You can't say that's not nice.
Tradition says you can't dothat.
So you have to know whatapplies under the point penalty
system.
Misconduct is one of thosethings that apply under the
point penalty system.
Code violations are like, foran example of a code violation,
(39:46):
not resuming play within 30seconds.
Okay, we don't have a timer outthere, but you know, if you're
playing a match you feel likethey're taking too long, you
might call a ref out.
You might say ref.
There's a rule I'm sure you'reaware of that says that they
can't take longer than 30seconds between points.
Time them, they're taking likea minute.
Right, that's a code violation.
(40:06):
There's punishments for codeviolations.
I didn't research it too much,but I'm just trying to give you
an example of that.
So now let's look at thepenalties for misconduct.
It says penalty violationsshall be penalized as follows
The first defense point.
The second offense, game.
(40:28):
The third offense default.
For some reason I alwaysthought the third offense was
the set, but I guess it's not.
It's point game match.
And now, thinking back on it,there's that famous Mackin row
and I forget who he was playingI don't know if it was US Open
or on grass where he just wentnuts and then the match was
(40:49):
defaulted And I don't rememberif he might have misunderstood
the rule.
To tell you the truth, alsobecause I remember the video.
I got to find it, but Iremember the video where he
thought he sort of had anotherchance to be allowed obnoxious
jerk and cuss And the referee onthe sitting in the chai chair
(41:11):
just defaulted him.
So game match.
I got to find that in referencea little better here.
Dang it, i should haveresearched that before I did
this.
But anyways, the point.
Penalty violations are asfollows First offense point.
Second offense game.
Third offense default.
Remember, the only other hiccuphere is that flagrant violation
(41:34):
which you can be defaultedautomatically.
I don't know what that is yetand it never gets answered here.
But now we understand if I'mengaging in misconduct.
We now understand whatmisconduct is.
When we talked about theworking definitions right Under
the visible and audibleprofanity and obscenity, we know
(41:55):
that you can't do this stuff onthe court or on the court.
We know you can't do it to anofficial, to your opponent.
You can't even do it to aperson who's listening outside
the fence.
So we now understand all thesethings are considered misconduct
.
Abuse.
Cussing is a form of all thisstuff.
The audible cussing, the verbal, the gestures right, the
(42:20):
obscene gestures.
That's all part of this.
You can't do any of it.
The rules say And the penaltyis point violation, game
violation, or am I saying thatright?
Yeah, point, game default.
And if you do something badenough that's considered
flagrant, you can get a defaulteven within the first violation.
(42:41):
So I hope that helped you.
I tried to keep this one alittle shorter.
It still ended up being 43minutes.
I apologize for that, but Ihope that helped you understand
that you cannot cuss on thecourt.
But what is cussing Uh-huh?
Anyways, all right, well, havea great time and let me do a
(43:03):
little song for you and thanks.
See you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.