Got a question? Send me a text.
For many women, just hearing the word “IRS” can trigger shame, panic, or a deep urge to avoid. In this episode, tax attorney Stephen Weisberg, founder of The W Tax Group, helps us move beyond feeling fear and into clarity by breaking down what really happens during IRS audits, tax liens, and debt collection.
With over a decade of experience, Stephen explains how the IRS process actually unfolds—step by step—so you can understand your rights, recognize the warning signs, and make informed decisions without spiraling into self-blame or shutdown.
In this episode we discuss:
- The truth about IRS audits—and why only ~5% of returns are flagged
- What a tax lien is (and why it’s not the same as a levy)
- How the IRS communicates before taking action—and how to respond calmly
- The real deal on those “pennies on the dollar” offers you see on TV
- What to do if you can’t pay—options like installment plans, hardship status & more
- Why taking action early protects your power and peace
If you want to connect further with Stephen you may do so here:
- Stephen's website (https://www.weisberg.tax)
- LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenaweisberg)
Want to learn more or connect with me?
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➡️ Join here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/941450038160915
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Curious what your Human Design chart reveals about how you're uniquely designed to make aligned financial decisions?
➡️ Get your chart here: https://generatealifewelllived.com/receive-your-human-design-chart
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Let’s create a plan that feels aligned, intentional, and empowering—just for you.
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Money doesn't have to feel overwhelming. Let's create a plan that feels nurturing and custom to you.
From my soul to yours,
Erin
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephen Weisberg (00:00):
So on the audit side, and especially with
what's going on right now, thepercentage is low.
Erin Gray (00:07):
What's low Is low like 10% of total tax returns or
like, I think, like 5% Okay, 5%.
Do you want to create a systemto stop avoiding your money?
Maybe you're feeling guilt andshame when it comes to your
finances.
Welcome to your Money, yourRules, and shame when it comes
to your finances.
Welcome to your Money, yourRules.
(00:28):
I'm Erin, a former certifiedfinancial planner and CFO, and
yet I used to avoid my money andhad fear, no matter how much we
had.
I can't wait to teach you how Iovercame my money avoidance and
started consistently managingmy finances in a really simple
way.
It's time to get comfortablewith money.
Before we dive into thisepisode, I want to invite you to
join me for a one-on-one masteryour money coaching session In
(00:51):
this powerful hour.
Together, we are going tocreate a plan that not only
makes sense on paper, but alsoactually feels right in your
body, a plan that supports yourgoals, honors your energy and
really helps you feel safe andclear and in control of your
finances.
If you're ready to shift yourrelationship with money and step
(01:13):
into the freedom and the easethat you have been craving, I
invite you to book a sessionwith me by heading over to my
website,generatealifewelllivecom, and
scheduling your session.
I'm looking forward tosupporting you along your
journey.
Now let's get into today'sepisode On the podcast.
Today, I am joined by StevenWeisberg, who is the founder and
(01:35):
lead attorney of the W TaxGroup.
With over a decade ofexperience, steven helps
individuals, businesses andbusiness owners across the
country resolve tax debt auditsand IRS disputes.
His client-first approachbegins with a detailed tax debt
analysis, offering completetransparency and customized
(01:57):
strategies for each client, andmy intention with every episode
is to help you feel moreeducated, empowered and
emotionally safe when it comesto your finances, even in those
areas that feel reallyintimidating.
So I hope you enjoy thisepisode, you learn about audits,
tax liens, and thank you forlistening and spending your time
(02:18):
with us.
Thanks, stephen, for coming onthe podcast and sharing your
knowledge with us.
I'm excited that you're here.
Stephen Weisberg (02:23):
Thanks, thanks for having me.
I'm glad to be here.
Erin Gray (02:26):
So tell me, how does one get into tax lien and doing
what you do?
Stephen Weisberg (02:32):
So I was actually a corporate bankruptcy
attorney and I was doing a lotof work.
So we're out of Detroit, it was2008.
Things weren't going real wellin the country, but especially
in Detroit.
So you know corporatebankruptcy was, you know what I
fell into there and you knowit's good work.
(02:54):
I actually like being abankruptcy attorney.
But you know we wererepresenting pretty large
suppliers, auto suppliers, andyou know they have a lot of
creditors that they need to pay.
The big creditors, you know, ofcourse, were the big three, you
know Chrysler, general Motorsand Ford, and they had secured
(03:15):
loans.
So, you know, within thebankruptcy context, they would
get paid basically in full, atleast in these experiences.
And then there will be allthese mom and pop, you know
little vendors who maybe gavethem some cloth or you know, I
guess that was a ridiculousexample, but you know something
like that, some small things,and they had unsecured claims
(03:39):
and they'd get paid, you know,one to two cents on the dollar,
while, like I said, the carcompany gave them paid in full.
And we'd be working on thesecases for a year and then we'd
represent the trust that would,you know, sell all the assets
and try to bring as much incomeinto the trust so they could pay
(04:01):
creditors.
And again, I just felt like Iwas working for the car
companies to get them all themoney that they could get and
they get paid in full, andeveryone else, which is kind of
the fabric of the community,wasn't getting paid anything.
So, to make a long story shortor to just give you a sense of
what I felt, I just felt likethat's not what I wanted to do.
(04:22):
Now.
I wanted to be more present in,like, the everyday
circumstances of taxpayer Ishouldn't say taxpayers of
people at the time who you knowwere in financial hardships and
dealing with issues financially,and I wanted to be able to see
it on their faces every day whenI was making a difference and
(04:42):
where I could make a difference,and I didn't know where that
meant.
But ultimately I ended up intax debt resolution because I
had an attorney that I knew whowas already working in tax debt
resolution and had the expertise, and I started working with him
, and so the bottom line is Ifell into it, but it fell into
(05:04):
what I wanted to do the bottomline is I fell into it, but it
was.
Erin Gray (05:07):
it fell into what I wanted to do.
Yeah, it's interesting becauseback when my construction days,
you know, we had to file a lotof liens as well.
And, if you didn't know, thatwas one of the things that I
really got really comfortablewith is when we had a really
good construction attorney and Iunderstood the way that the
laws worked and I learned a lotfrom her.
And you know, you have tounderstand how the laws work and
the timing and the filing andall of that and a lot of like
(05:28):
what you're referring to.
I'm assuming a lot of mom andpop businesses don't pay
attention to that stuff.
So you've got these bigcorporations that are
knowledgeable.
You have staff attorneys, theyknow how it works, so they're
going to be the first, you know,to the trough to claim what
they you know are due.
And if you don't know the waythat the law works or timing and
(05:50):
filing, then, like you say,then a lot of times these sweet
business owners are left out.
You know high and dry, becauseyou number one, you don't know,
and you're probably not workingclosely with an attorney on a
consistent basis to teach youthis to be involved, so that you
are protecting yourself fromthat, from that state yeah, I
mean on the tax debt side, youknow it's just more so.
Stephen Weisberg (06:15):
Well, it is exactly what you said, whereas
you don't know what you don'tknow.
So what you know once you owethe tax debt.
There's a lot of concern,obviously from from people who
are mostly people who areself-employed with small
businesses.
They don't know what to do.
They kind of stick their headin the sand and pretend it's not
happening and then it continuesto spiral, spiral, spiral, and
(06:37):
then maybe some of them say, ohwell, I'll just call the IRS
myself, and that never ends.
Well, again, you don't knowwhat you don't know.
The IRS knows what you don'tknow and they know very well
what they do know.
You know there's an entireinternal revenue manual that is
instructing them about what theyare allowed to do, what they
can't do, how this process works, how they can get most money as
(07:00):
possible in the door.
And as a taxpayer, you don'tknow that.
So you know you can getyourself in some pretty bad
situations when you don't haverepresentation and especially
when you've waited till the lastminute and you might have a
levy where you know they'velevied your bank account or, if
you're, you know, a W-2 wageearner, they've garnished your
(07:23):
wages.
But even self-employed, theycan garnish the income that's
coming into you from thirdparties.
So bottom line is there's a lotof waiting, there's a lot of
procrastination, there's a lotof anxiety and fear, and you
know it all kind of comes to ahead.
Erin Gray (07:39):
Yeah, so I want to dive into two different parts,
because what you do is there'stwo different parts, right, like
there's the audit piece andthen there's also like the tax
lien or the levy.
Um, and I want to dive intothat because that is a concern
that I hear from, uh, businessowners, and here we go back to
like you don't know what youdon't know, and part of this
podcast is to educate and toinform, and I think the more
than we are informed and alsowhat you stated is, you know
(08:01):
when we are in fear, when we arein panic, when we that those
emotions drive certain reactionor actions versus empowered,
confident and informed.
So will you talk a little bitabout because that is a fear
that a lot of women have sharedof like I'm afraid of getting
audited.
So, like, break down, like whatis the actual percentage of
people that actually get audited?
Stephen Weisberg (08:27):
actually get audited if that's possible.
So on the audit side, andespecially with what's going on
right now, the percentage is low.
Erin Gray (08:31):
What's low Is low like 10% of total tax returns or
like.
Stephen Weisberg (08:35):
I think like 5%.
Erin Gray (08:37):
Okay 5%.
Stephen Weisberg (08:39):
So you know, especially if you're
self-employed, you know there'scertain things that kind of
catch the IRS and give them kindof you know, that red flag.
A lot of it has to do withdriving and the mileage that you
take.
You know, if you have a ton ofmileage that you're taking and
(08:59):
you're in a profession where youdon't really need to be
traveling, you know the IRSobviously takes that and says
you know what's going on here.
Also, for whatever reason, withthe home office deduction, the
IRS looks into that very closelyto make sure you're not taking
too much, because you're onlysupposed to be taking the amount
of you know.
Let's say you're talking aboutyour heating bill, you're only
(09:22):
supposed to take that room thatyou're using and you have to be
using that room specifically forworking in the home office.
So that's one that they look at, you know, very closely.
Those are two that I see peoplegetting tripped up a lot in.
Erin Gray (09:35):
Okay.
So, and it's not from a placeof don't do it Cause I think
people hear that and they think,oh, I don't want to do it.
It's not don't do it, it's just, obviously, work with your CPA
or your enrolled agent and like,hey, are you know it's, if
you've got a 3000 square foothome and your office is 200
square feet, then that's thepercentage that you need to be,
you know, deducting for homeoffice.
Um, okay, and so then tell me,in terms of what do you see most
(09:59):
commonly?
So that's from the audit side.
Now, if you get audited, thenyou can have either your CPA or
your enrolled agent help youwith the audit.
Do you also help with audits,or is that really as I do in?
Stephen Weisberg (10:13):
tax resolution , tax improper assessment.
So I have the background a lotin the accounting side.
But also it's just different tohave a tax attorney and I know
the enrolled agents and the CPAsare going to be mad at me, but
(10:35):
when you're an attorney you havea different way of going about
things.
You're more into negotiations,you're more into making sure you
get what is owed and you knowsometimes it makes sense to have
the CPA.
You know who has prepared thereturn, or the tax professional
has prepared the return.
(10:55):
Actually, always it makes senseto have them come to me and say
here, this is what's going on.
I can help you through what'sbeen filed, you know what kind
of deductions we took, what'sbeing looked at with the audit
and then let's work together interms of fighting this audit.
Erin Gray (11:11):
Yeah, so you want to talk then about, when it gets to
the point, what creates a taxlien or a tax levy.
Let's dive into definition.
What is the difference?
Is it or is thatinterchangeable?
Stephen Weisberg (11:24):
Yeah, sure.
So a tax?
We'll just start with thedefinition A tax lien is.
You know where the IRS puts alien on anything that you own.
So whether it's your house, areal property or personal
property, you know it could be,you know the couch in your
living room or it could be yourcar.
Now, so that means if you tryto sell anything, they're not
(11:47):
going to do anything with thatlien, except for it protects
them.
So if you're going to try tosell your house and you have
equity in your home and you owejust making up numbers, $100,000
and you have equity of, let'sjust say, $100,000, the IRS is
going to take that equity.
When you sell, you need to talkto the IRS before that, before
the sale, and make sure they'lldischarge the lien, because
(12:09):
that's the only way to cleartitle.
Right, if you have a lien, theonly way to clear title is to
get a discharge and the IRS willonly discharge if you give them
the equity in your home.
Now, when it comes to yourcouch, the IRS is not really
going to get involved in thatand you can pretty safely go
ahead and sell your couch if youwanted to and not have an issue
(12:31):
you know for for practicalpurposes?
Um, so that's what a lien isbasically the IRS protecting
themselves, so that if you aretrying to make money on the sale
of something, they're going toget paid the equity from that
sale?
Oh, go ahead.
Erin Gray (12:46):
Let me ask one question.
So in terms of qualifiedaccounts so like if you have
IRAs or 401ks or SEPs, are thoseprotected?
Because I always thought thatresident like your primary
residence, because there's somethings I guess obviously not
with taxes, but other areaswhere your primary residence is
protected.
That might be like from an LLCstandpoint, but that's all
another topic.
(13:07):
So what about your qualifiedaccounts as well?
Stephen Weisberg (13:11):
So in terms of property, in terms of real
property, personal property,that's all fair game.
But in terms of retirementaccounts, that more comes under
the levy aspect.
Okay, like we're talking aboutdifferent than the lien.
So the levy is where the IRS isissuing the levy and saying,
basically, we're taking what youown.
(13:33):
Basically we're taking what youown in terms, and that usually
applies to, like I said,retirement accounts.
That usually applies to bankaccounts and then wages or third
parties who are paying you ifyou're self-employed.
So, but the IRS can go afteryour retirement accounts, that
is fair game, they will go afterthem.
(13:55):
Your retirement account, thatis fair game, they will go after
them.
You know.
Erin Gray (14:00):
I think they generally go after the bank
accounts Non-qualified first.
Yeah, it's easier.
Stephen Weisberg (14:03):
Exactly so.
That's what they're going to goafter first.
Now, in terms of those leviesthat they put into place.
It doesn't happen right away,and when you owe taxes, you're
going to start getting noticesthat say you owe the money.
Basically the first one, andthere's supposed to be five, but
there's three main ones.
The first one is the Notice 14,which basically says you know
(14:28):
you owe us money.
But the next one is usually aCP-504 or a CP-503.
That's just the letter number,the notice number, and it will
say you know you owe us moneyand we're going to levy your
bank account.
Sorry, we're going to levy youryou know accounts.
Yeah, yeah your money.
Okay, right, it's very generic,yeah, right now, at that point,
(14:51):
when you get that letter, um,they can take your state refund.
So if you file a state taxreturn and then you get a refund
, they will take that, but theycannot actually levy your bank
account or wages at that point.
They're going to say that inthat notice, that they can, or
that they're going to, and atsome point they're able to, but
they can't.
(15:11):
Based on that notice, theystill need to send out a third
notice, which is what's reallythe final notice of intent to
levy, and that's the letternumber CP90 or LT11.
And I think there's a 1058 thatthey send out as well.
It depends on your situation.
You'll get one of those At thatpoint.
(15:34):
That's the last notice theyhave to send out before they can
do any sort of levies.
You have 30 days from thatnotice to either resolve your
tax debt with the IRS or you dohave the opportunity to file
what's called a CDP appeal.
Let's just call it an appeal.
You have the ability to appealthat notice and then try to work
(15:58):
out a resolution with appeals.
But if you don't do that, ifyou don't either resolve the
balance that you owe within the30 days or file an appeal, then
the IRS has the ability to levybank accounts and garnishment.
Erin Gray (16:10):
As you said, that that CP.
I have received those when Iwas with my family's
construction business because wehad 1099 contractors.
I'm, like you said, the CP, andso there have been times where
either the social securitynumber didn't match up or there
was some forced withholding onour part because they did not.
So if you've ever received that, so you could even receive that
(16:33):
from a business owner.
So if you've ever received that, so you could even receive that
from a business owner.
If you have had 1099 employeesnot employees, but 1099
contractors because they havenot paid in appropriately with
their estimated taxes and youare required to withhold Right.
Stephen Weisberg (16:48):
Yeah, different notice.
But you're right, cp may be infront of you.
So yeah, that's why I ring abell.
Erin Gray (16:54):
Yeah, don't mean to confuse everyone listening, but
when you said cp, I'm like, oh,I've seen that, I've seen that
one before.
I know they're obviouslydifferent cp.
You know different um notices,but um, okay, so you so
basically three, three strikes,if you want to call it.
That is like what are chances Ishould say three chances that
you get, and so do most people.
(17:15):
Are they in such a fear-basedstate that they just head in the
sand and they don't want toaddress it because they think
it's going to be so big and,yeah, just fear, you know well
there, there is certainly apercentage of people that you
know fall into that category.
Stephen Weisberg (17:32):
Um, they just, they're just putting their head
in the sand.
They don't know what to do.
You've got the IRS, which isbasically the largest, most
powerful collection agency onthe planet.
That's what they are.
They're there to collect andthey have more power than any
other entity in the country.
So either they're just afraidand they don't do anything and
(17:53):
they just wait, and then, let'ssay, their bank account gets
levied and then they call me.
Now a lot of people do callwhen they get that second notice
, that CP-504, cp-503, becausethat notice says, hey, we're
going to take your money Right.
And so then they get nervousand, like I said, they can't
actually do it after you know,right after that notice.
But it's starting to getserious and the IRS uses scary
(18:17):
language on that noticepurposefully, and it has the
appropriate responses.
People get nervous and it'sactually a good thing, because
then people can start to resolvethose tax issues before that
final notice comes out andthey're not waiting until they
actually can be levied.
Erin Gray (18:34):
Yeah, so tell me, how ?
Does I know that it's a lot offear based with what the IRS
does.
So how do they act in an actualeither audit and or when you
come in to help with the auditor the levy or the lien?
How, what is your experiencewith the IRS?
Stephen Weisberg (18:53):
Like in terms of like, are they going to be
like super aggressive, supermean, or like yeah?
Erin Gray (18:59):
So these are questions that I mean clients
and women that I've talked tohave had, and I'm like I've
never had that experience, so Ihave no idea.
So, it's from a place of pure,pure curiosity.
Stephen Weisberg (19:08):
Yeah, you know it depends on who you're
dealing with Now, most people.
So if you owe a lot of money,maybe have, like you know, five
or six returns that haven't beenfiled, you know you might have
a revenue officer assigned toyour case and that's a specific
person that's assigned to yourcase that you're going to work
with, that you're going to workwith.
I'm going to set that aside fora minute because, again, those
(19:31):
are kind of higher balances.
You know more complex, moredifficult cases to deal with.
But if you owe let's say,$15,000, you're going to be sent
to collections, the automatedcollections unit, and so you
don't actually have a specificperson assigned to your case.
You're going to be calling thiscollections unit and somebody's
(19:53):
going to pick up.
You don't know who it's goingto be and then if you have to
call back, it's going to be adifferent person.
Erin Gray (19:58):
You know, and is this part of the IRS or is this like
okay?
Stephen Weisberg (20:03):
No yeah, it's not.
There is some privatecollections sometimes that the
IRS gets involved.
But yes, this ACS unit is anactual unit of the IRS.
So you're going to be speakingto different people.
Generally well, you very wellcould get someone that's nice
and helpful.
There's a lot of times whereyou're not getting someone who's
(20:23):
that helpful.
Now, part of it is I hesitate touse it, but part of it is
incompetence.
Part of it is that they're justnot happy and they've been
dealing with taxpayers, you know, complaining to them all day.
And part of it is, again, theyknow what they can do.
Their whole goal is to get asmuch money from you as quickly
(20:45):
as possible.
So they're not going to sitthere and, you know, pat your
head and say, oh, you can dothis or you can do this, and if
you do this, then this willhappen.
This is the best way.
They're just going to tell you.
You know you need to pay us andthis is what you need to pay us
.
And when you don't know whatyour other options are, you know
it's very easy to besteamrolled and just say, okay,
(21:07):
I understand, I have this debtout there.
The IRS is telling me I have topay this.
I'm just going to do it becauseI have to and I'm afraid to
bring anything up.
And you're afraid to bringanything up because, one, you're
dealing with the IRS, but, two,you don't even know what to
bring up, why or how.
(21:27):
So it's a little bit of all ofit.
I guess.
The main point, though, isthey're not on your side.
They're not there tonecessarily help you.
I wouldn't say that they're allout to get you, but they're
just not there to necessarilyhelp you.
They're there to get money forthe IRS.
Erin Gray (21:41):
Yeah, so how long does the process take, from when
you like if you get a letter,and then when?
I guess it depends on if youhave a levy or a lien right.
That's a different.
Those are two different pathsto take.
But from kind of the start tofinish, what roundabout does
that look like for someone, oncethey get a letter, to go
(22:03):
through the process and finalizewhat they have to pay, and then
you're on a payment plan or youhave to pay in full or
something like that?
Stephen Weisberg (22:10):
Yeah, yeah, it depends.
So if you get, let's say youget your CP504 and then you call
me and you say, hey, I'm introuble, I need some help, it
depends on what type ofresolution that you qualify for.
But if you're going to look foran installment agreement, which
would be like a monthly paymentplan, whether that means that
you're paying off the entirebalance over, let's say, six
(22:33):
years, which is called astreamlined installment
agreement, or you might be ableto qualify for what's called a
partial pay installmentagreement, where you're going to
be paying the IRS on a monthlybasis but you never end up
paying off the total amount ofthe debt.
And then there's also what'scalled currently non-collectible
status, where you don't have topay anything to the IRS on a
(22:55):
monthly basis and collectionactivity stops, but it's a
somewhat temporary status,depending on what your income is
.
So if your income increases,they'll not kick you out of that
status and you'll have to goback to the drawing board.
So those are kind of threedifferent options.
And, to go back to your originalquestion, it depends a lot on,
(23:19):
really, the taxpayer.
You know, if I have, when Ihave all the documentation that
I need and all the information Ineed from the taxpayer to
negotiate with the IRS.
You know it might take a monthat the end of the day.
You know, if it's morecomplicated and I call the IRS
and they want more information,you know it might take longer,
(23:52):
but they can be done.
The resolutions with thosetypes of resolutions can be
completed relatively quickly aslong as I have the information
that I need from the taxpayer.
And just one other aspect ofthis is you know a lot of people
probably heard about theoffering compromise At least
that's what you always hear onthe radio and we can talk about
that a little further.
But like an offer in compromise, you'll file an offer in
compromise.
You may not hear back for six,seven, eight months, so that's
something that's a much longerordeal that you're dealing with.
Erin Gray (24:16):
Okay, two questions that I have then.
So as if you, let's say, thiswere to happen to me, you are my
attorney.
Am I ever going to be involvedwith the IRS when we work
together, when you and I worktogether, or is it more so?
You are basically the mediatorthat go between and you are the
one that talks to the IRS.
You negotiate, you come back tome and then we figure out what
the what the IRS has said, andthen what we I agree to, or what
(24:38):
they agree to, and then that'show it works.
Stephen Weisberg (24:41):
Yeah, yeah, and that's a good question
because it puts the taxpayersyou know, potential clients
peace of mind.
They don't have to talk to theIRS anymore.
You know I will take over alldiscussions with the IRS.
I'm taking over allnegotiations, all resolutions.
You know you do not have toworry about speaking to the IRS
anymore.
Erin Gray (25:00):
At that point, Okay, and then when you talked about,
or we can dive into, you knowthe misconceptions of offer and
compromise, but of the threedifferent options that you
listed, was any of thatconsidered offer and compromise?
Or offer and compromise iscompletely separate than those
different three options ofpayment.
Stephen Weisberg (25:17):
Yeah, offer and compromise is completely
separate.
And you know, if you don't mind, I will go in a little bit into
the offer and compromise.
So you know your listeners mayhave heard about the offer and
compromise from radio or from TVcommercials at 2 am at night.
You know that's kind of whenthose things come on.
And a lot of these big nationalkind of like 800-pound gorillas
(25:40):
, as I call them, of thesecompanies that are out there
that do you do quote unquote taxresolution.
They'll say, hey, we can reduceyour debt by 10.
You only have to pay 10% ofwhat you owe.
And we had this one guy whoowed $100,000, and he only paid
$1,000.
(26:01):
And we can do the same for you.
So it sounds too good to betrue and it's a little bit of
both.
In one respect it's not toogood to be true, it happens.
And another respect most people, the majority of people, more
than the majority of people, donot qualify for the offer and
(26:21):
compromise.
So when these companies do youhave a question?
Erin Gray (26:24):
I was gonna say why.
Why don't most people Okay?
Stephen Weisberg (26:28):
Yeah.
So when these companies saythese types of things, they
hopefully really did do anoffering compromise that was
that successful, and I've hadoffering compromises that have
been extremely successful.
I mean ridiculous numbers youknow, like owing 700,000 and
paying a thousand dollars to getrid of their entire debt.
I mean ridiculous numbers youknow like owing $700,000 and
paying $1,000 to get rid oftheir entire debt.
(26:49):
But again, most people don'tqualify.
It all depends on your finances.
It all depends on your assetsequity and assets.
It depends on what they callthe IRS calls your monthly
disposable income.
So most people don't qualifybecause you know if you are
making a lot of money and ifyou're not making a lot of money
(27:10):
.
If you're making, you know adecent amount of money, though,
and your expenses are what theyare and your expenses are are
reasonable amounts you're goingto have leftover.
Erin Gray (27:24):
Discretionary income.
Stephen Weisberg (27:25):
Yeah, especially what they call
discretionary income.
And the offering compromise isa formula, but basically they're
looking at your discretionaryincome.
They're determining how muchtime is left for you to be able
to pay off your debt.
If your discretionary incomewill pay off the debt over a
certain amount of time, they'renot going to give you an
offering compromise.
(27:46):
And then, even if you won't payoff the debt over a certain
amount of time, they're notgoing to give you an offer in
compromise.
And then, even if you do, evenif you won't pay off the debt
over the period of time thatthey're looking at, you know
they're going to multiply by 12what you, your monthly
disposable income.
And then they're also going tolook at any equity and assets.
So again, it all depends onyour equity and assets, your
(28:07):
income, your expenses.
There's so much that goes intoit and so like.
If you look at the percentages,I think offering compromises
that are accepted is at like 40%.
And it's because these bigcompanies out there tell
everyone that they qualify andthen the person the taxpayer
calls them and says, ok, I'mready to go.
(28:29):
And they say, ok, great, we'llfile your offer in compromise.
They don't know anything aboutthe case.
You can't tell someone, hey,we're going to resolve this case
for $0.10 without knowinganything about their case, but
they file them anyway.
And then they say, oh well, wefiled it, it got denied, sorry,
we did our best.
So it's like a 40% acceptancerate, whereas my acceptance rate
when I filed them was probably,you know, 95, 96, 97%, because
(28:54):
I'm not filing a frivolous offerin compromise.
I'm filing offer in compromiseonly if I've looked at
everything, I've done all theanalysis, I've gone through
everything and I believe thatthere's a very good shot that
the offer and compromise isgoing to be accepted.
Erin Gray (29:08):
Yeah, like you do, true, due diligence.
Stephen Weisberg (29:11):
Exactly.
Erin Gray (29:13):
And then so, from a tax attorney perspective, are
you all 50 states or is it statespecific for tax levy and liens
and things of that sort?
Stephen Weisberg (29:26):
All 50 states.
So as an attorney, I'm admittedto the bar in Michigan, but I
can practice in terms ofrepresentation in front of the
IRS.
I can practice in all 50 states.
I can also handle state issuesin all 50 states, as long as,
for attorney purposes, as longas I'm admitted to the bar in
one state, which is my homestate, michigan, I'm able to
(29:47):
represent nationwide.
Erin Gray (29:49):
Okay, I love it.
I've got payment options, but Ithink we talked about that.
Is there anything else that youwant to add that maybe I didn't
bring up for us to educate andempower our listeners with.
Stephen Weisberg (30:02):
You just want to make sure that you take care
of this early.
The earlier that you take careof this, the more leverage you
have.
You're already at adisadvantage with the IRS
because, like I said, they'rethe most powerful collection
agency on the planet.
You're already at adisadvantage when you hire an
attorney or tax representation.
You are less of a disadvantage,certainly much less of a
(30:22):
disadvantage.
But the later you, longer youwait, the less of a disadvantage
.
But the later you, the longeryou wait, the less leverage you
have.
I mean, if they've alreadylevied your bank account, let's
say you're kind of stuck therewhere, like you're just wanting
to get this bank accountreleased so that you don't
aren't going to have to pay allthis money, so you don't have to
kind of leverage as if you cameto me way before and we can
(30:43):
work out a settlement that makesthe most sense possible for you
and we can, you know, work thesystem as much as possible.
You're not in that crisis mode.
So the bottom line is get to usearly.
The other thing I just want toreiterate, which we just talked
about, but you know, theoffering compromise not everyone
qualifies.
So when you hear that on theradio, just don't believe it.
(31:03):
It does happen, but don'tbelieve it.
Just be very careful about whoyou're hiring to help you with
your tax debt.
Erin Gray (31:14):
I want to say, from the emotional and the nervous
regulation side because that'sreally more of the work that I
do, even though we do talk aboutand work through money is that,
obviously, if Stephen has abusiness doing this and I know
that there are lots of otherattorneys all throughout the 50
States this is a thing thatpeople experience.
So you can't if, if you are, youknow, if this ever does come up
(31:38):
which I don't wish that it everdoes and if you are listening
and you are currently in this,then obviously you are not alone
.
You are not, are listening andyou are currently in this, then
obviously you are not alone.
You are not the first personthat has gone through this.
Like we don't have to feel theshame and the guilt around this.
We can drop that and you knowfrom a place of love for
yourself and you know compassionof like we don't know what we
(32:00):
don't know, and that you knowseeking the help and having and
working with people that knowand are knowledgeable about this
to help you and to guide you isworth every single penny.
Stephen Weisberg (32:13):
Absolutely.
I mean, I 100% agree with that.
There is no shame in this and,first of all, this is my
expertise, so I see this on adaily basis.
There's certainly no shame.
Come to me, I'm not going tofeel like, oh my gosh, I can't
believe this happened.
It happens for so many reasons.
There's no shame.
Whatever happened happened willhelp you get out of this.
(32:36):
But what I also wanted to justrefer back to like you said, the
emotional part like you'regoing to be anxious, you're
going to feel like paralyzed,and that's why you call someone
like me whether it's me orsomeone else you want to get a
tax professional involved,because the longer you wait, the
worse the situation is going tobe.
But I understand why people doit.
I get it.
But just as you hear us talkingtoday, just remember there are
(32:58):
people out there that can helpyou.
You'll feel so much more peaceof mind.
There'll be a weight lifted offyour chest and you'll just know
it's being taken care of andyou don't have to worry about it
as much.
Erin Gray (33:08):
Yeah, it's like that scary monster that's in the
closet.
I mean, it doesn't help that,you know, like, like even you
saying like the, but it is kindof like the truth.
It's like we built this IRS upas this, like I don't even want
to say big brother, like worsethan that, right, like that it's
just this entity that, like,has so much control and power
and we have created so much feararound that, versus like the
(33:31):
monster or the thing underneathyour bed, like the quicker that
you look at it, the faster thatyou face it, the more you know
empowered and confident that youcan feel to move forward.
I wanted to say one other thing, back to your comment around,
you know, people go through this.
There have been women that Ihave helped that have have had,
(33:52):
you know, gone through this, andwe don't teach self-employment
tax, like if you aren't workingwith a CPA or a enrolled agent,
or I mean I don't even know ifmy business classes talked about
self-employment tax, you know.
So it's like we're not learningthis, like most entrepreneurs
don't typically take businessclasses and go through business,
(34:13):
right, and so just, I wouldjust say that to each of you
listening like we don't knowwhat we don't know, and a lot of
this is we learn on the jobtraining, and so I want to
encourage you that if you knowyou are in this position, you
know reach out to Steven, have aconversation with him and you
know take care of your financialhouse so that you aren't in
(34:35):
this position for any longer oryou don't have to pay more.
Like, I think, the taxes andthe penalty.
I don't know which one is worse.
The penalties are the the um,not the taxes, but the interest.
There you go, the interest.
Stephen Weisberg (34:47):
Penalties are way worse, way worse, yep.
Erin Gray (34:50):
So perfect.
Thank you, Steven, for comingon.
You're welcome For sharing yourtime with us.
Stephen Weisberg (34:55):
Thanks for having me.
I appreciate it yeah.
Erin Gray (34:57):
Thanks for listening, guys.
I'll see you next time.
I would love it if you wouldleave a review for this podcast.
It helps the show grow and Ilove hearing from you.
And if this episode resonatedwith you and you have a business
bestie who is also avoiding hermoney, will you share this
episode with her?
My mission is to help morefemale entrepreneurs feel safe
(35:18):
and empowered with their money.
Okay, I'll see you in the nextepisode.
So on the audit side, and especially with
what's going on right now, thepercentage is low.
Erin Gray (00:07):
What's low Is low like 10% of total tax returns or
like, I think, like 5% Okay, 5%.
Do you want to create a systemto stop avoiding your money?
Maybe you're feeling guilt andshame when it comes to your
finances.
Welcome to your Money, yourRules, and shame when it comes
to your finances.
Welcome to your Money, yourRules.
(00:28):
I'm Erin, a former certifiedfinancial planner and CFO, and
yet I used to avoid my money andhad fear, no matter how much we
had.
I can't wait to teach you how Iovercame my money avoidance and
started consistently managingmy finances in a really simple
way.
It's time to get comfortablewith money.
Before we dive into thisepisode, I want to invite you to
join me for a one-on-one masteryour money coaching session In
(00:51):
this powerful hour.
Together, we are going tocreate a plan that not only
makes sense on paper, but alsoactually feels right in your
body, a plan that supports yourgoals, honors your energy and
really helps you feel safe andclear and in control of your
finances.
If you're ready to shift yourrelationship with money and step
(01:13):
into the freedom and the easethat you have been craving, I
invite you to book a sessionwith me by heading over to my
website,generatealifewelllivecom, and
scheduling your session.
I'm looking forward tosupporting you along your
journey.
Now let's get into today'sepisode On the podcast.
Today, I am joined by StevenWeisberg, who is the founder and
(01:35):
lead attorney of the W TaxGroup.
With over a decade ofexperience, steven helps
individuals, businesses andbusiness owners across the
country resolve tax debt auditsand IRS disputes.
His client-first approachbegins with a detailed tax debt
analysis, offering completetransparency and customized
(01:57):
strategies for each client, andmy intention with every episode
is to help you feel moreeducated, empowered and
emotionally safe when it comesto your finances, even in those
areas that feel reallyintimidating.
So I hope you enjoy thisepisode, you learn about audits,
tax liens, and thank you forlistening and spending your time
(02:18):
with us.
Thanks, stephen, for coming onthe podcast and sharing your
knowledge with us.
I'm excited that you're here.
Stephen Weisberg (02:23):
Thanks, thanks for having me.
I'm glad to be here.
Erin Gray (02:26):
So tell me, how does one get into tax lien and doing
what you do?
Stephen Weisberg (02:32):
So I was actually a corporate bankruptcy
attorney and I was doing a lotof work.
So we're out of Detroit, it was2008.
Things weren't going real wellin the country, but especially
in Detroit.
So you know corporatebankruptcy was, you know what I
fell into there and you knowit's good work.
(02:54):
I actually like being abankruptcy attorney.
But you know we wererepresenting pretty large
suppliers, auto suppliers, andyou know they have a lot of
creditors that they need to pay.
The big creditors, you know, ofcourse, were the big three, you
know Chrysler, general Motorsand Ford, and they had secured
(03:15):
loans.
So, you know, within thebankruptcy context, they would
get paid basically in full, atleast in these experiences.
And then there will be allthese mom and pop, you know
little vendors who maybe gavethem some cloth or you know, I
guess that was a ridiculousexample, but you know something
like that, some small things,and they had unsecured claims
(03:39):
and they'd get paid, you know,one to two cents on the dollar,
while, like I said, the carcompany gave them paid in full.
And we'd be working on thesecases for a year and then we'd
represent the trust that would,you know, sell all the assets
and try to bring as much incomeinto the trust so they could pay
(04:01):
creditors.
And again, I just felt like Iwas working for the car
companies to get them all themoney that they could get and
they get paid in full, andeveryone else, which is kind of
the fabric of the community,wasn't getting paid anything.
So, to make a long story shortor to just give you a sense of
what I felt, I just felt likethat's not what I wanted to do.
(04:22):
Now.
I wanted to be more present in,like, the everyday
circumstances of taxpayer Ishouldn't say taxpayers of
people at the time who you knowwere in financial hardships and
dealing with issues financially,and I wanted to be able to see
it on their faces every day whenI was making a difference and
(04:42):
where I could make a difference,and I didn't know where that
meant.
But ultimately I ended up intax debt resolution because I
had an attorney that I knew whowas already working in tax debt
resolution and had the expertise, and I started working with him
, and so the bottom line is Ifell into it, but it fell into
(05:04):
what I wanted to do the bottomline is I fell into it, but it
was.
Erin Gray (05:07):
it fell into what I wanted to do.
Yeah, it's interesting becauseback when my construction days,
you know, we had to file a lotof liens as well.
And, if you didn't know, thatwas one of the things that I
really got really comfortablewith is when we had a really
good construction attorney and Iunderstood the way that the
laws worked and I learned a lotfrom her.
And you know, you have tounderstand how the laws work and
the timing and the filing andall of that and a lot of like
(05:28):
what you're referring to.
I'm assuming a lot of mom andpop businesses don't pay
attention to that stuff.
So you've got these bigcorporations that are
knowledgeable.
You have staff attorneys, theyknow how it works, so they're
going to be the first, you know,to the trough to claim what
they you know are due.
And if you don't know the waythat the law works or timing and
(05:50):
filing, then, like you say,then a lot of times these sweet
business owners are left out.
You know high and dry, becauseyou number one, you don't know,
and you're probably not workingclosely with an attorney on a
consistent basis to teach youthis to be involved, so that you
are protecting yourself fromthat, from that state yeah, I
mean on the tax debt side, youknow it's just more so.
Stephen Weisberg (06:15):
Well, it is exactly what you said, whereas
you don't know what you don'tknow.
So what you know once you owethe tax debt.
There's a lot of concern,obviously from from people who
are mostly people who areself-employed with small
businesses.
They don't know what to do.
They kind of stick their headin the sand and pretend it's not
happening and then it continuesto spiral, spiral, spiral, and
(06:37):
then maybe some of them say, ohwell, I'll just call the IRS
myself, and that never ends.
Well, again, you don't knowwhat you don't know.
The IRS knows what you don'tknow and they know very well
what they do know.
You know there's an entireinternal revenue manual that is
instructing them about what theyare allowed to do, what they
can't do, how this process works, how they can get most money as
(07:00):
possible in the door.
And as a taxpayer, you don'tknow that.
So you know you can getyourself in some pretty bad
situations when you don't haverepresentation and especially
when you've waited till the lastminute and you might have a
levy where you know they'velevied your bank account or, if
you're, you know, a W-2 wageearner, they've garnished your
(07:23):
wages.
But even self-employed, theycan garnish the income that's
coming into you from thirdparties.
So bottom line is there's a lotof waiting, there's a lot of
procrastination, there's a lotof anxiety and fear, and you
know it all kind of comes to ahead.
Erin Gray (07:39):
Yeah, so I want to dive into two different parts,
because what you do is there'stwo different parts, right, like
there's the audit piece andthen there's also like the tax
lien or the levy.
Um, and I want to dive intothat because that is a concern
that I hear from, uh, businessowners, and here we go back to
like you don't know what youdon't know, and part of this
podcast is to educate and toinform, and I think the more
than we are informed and alsowhat you stated is, you know
(08:01):
when we are in fear, when we arein panic, when we that those
emotions drive certain reactionor actions versus empowered,
confident and informed.
So will you talk a little bitabout because that is a fear
that a lot of women have sharedof like I'm afraid of getting
audited.
So, like, break down, like whatis the actual percentage of
people that actually get audited?
Stephen Weisberg (08:27):
actually get audited if that's possible.
So on the audit side, andespecially with what's going on
right now, the percentage is low.
Erin Gray (08:31):
What's low Is low like 10% of total tax returns or
like.
Stephen Weisberg (08:35):
I think like 5%.
Erin Gray (08:37):
Okay 5%.
Stephen Weisberg (08:39):
So you know, especially if you're
self-employed, you know there'scertain things that kind of
catch the IRS and give them kindof you know, that red flag.
A lot of it has to do withdriving and the mileage that you
take.
You know, if you have a ton ofmileage that you're taking and
(08:59):
you're in a profession where youdon't really need to be
traveling, you know the IRSobviously takes that and says
you know what's going on here.
Also, for whatever reason, withthe home office deduction, the
IRS looks into that very closelyto make sure you're not taking
too much, because you're onlysupposed to be taking the amount
of you know.
Let's say you're talking aboutyour heating bill, you're only
(09:22):
supposed to take that room thatyou're using and you have to be
using that room specifically forworking in the home office.
So that's one that they look at, you know, very closely.
Those are two that I see peoplegetting tripped up a lot in.
Erin Gray (09:35):
Okay.
So, and it's not from a placeof don't do it Cause I think
people hear that and they think,oh, I don't want to do it.
It's not don't do it, it's just, obviously, work with your CPA
or your enrolled agent and like,hey, are you know it's, if
you've got a 3000 square foothome and your office is 200
square feet, then that's thepercentage that you need to be,
you know, deducting for homeoffice.
Um, okay, and so then tell me,in terms of what do you see most
(09:59):
commonly?
So that's from the audit side.
Now, if you get audited, thenyou can have either your CPA or
your enrolled agent help youwith the audit.
Do you also help with audits,or is that really as I do in?
Stephen Weisberg (10:13):
tax resolution , tax improper assessment.
So I have the background a lotin the accounting side.
But also it's just different tohave a tax attorney and I know
the enrolled agents and the CPAsare going to be mad at me, but
(10:35):
when you're an attorney you havea different way of going about
things.
You're more into negotiations,you're more into making sure you
get what is owed and you knowsometimes it makes sense to have
the CPA.
You know who has prepared thereturn, or the tax professional
has prepared the return.
(10:55):
Actually, always it makes senseto have them come to me and say
here, this is what's going on.
I can help you through what'sbeen filed, you know what kind
of deductions we took, what'sbeing looked at with the audit
and then let's work together interms of fighting this audit.
Erin Gray (11:11):
Yeah, so you want to talk then about, when it gets to
the point, what creates a taxlien or a tax levy.
Let's dive into definition.
What is the difference?
Is it or is thatinterchangeable?
Stephen Weisberg (11:24):
Yeah, sure.
So a tax?
We'll just start with thedefinition A tax lien is.
You know where the IRS puts alien on anything that you own.
So whether it's your house, areal property or personal
property, you know it could be,you know the couch in your
living room or it could be yourcar.
Now, so that means if you tryto sell anything, they're not
(11:47):
going to do anything with thatlien, except for it protects
them.
So if you're going to try tosell your house and you have
equity in your home and you owejust making up numbers, $100,000
and you have equity of, let'sjust say, $100,000, the IRS is
going to take that equity.
When you sell, you need to talkto the IRS before that, before
the sale, and make sure they'lldischarge the lien, because
(12:09):
that's the only way to cleartitle.
Right, if you have a lien, theonly way to clear title is to
get a discharge and the IRS willonly discharge if you give them
the equity in your home.
Now, when it comes to yourcouch, the IRS is not really
going to get involved in thatand you can pretty safely go
ahead and sell your couch if youwanted to and not have an issue
(12:31):
you know for for practicalpurposes?
Um, so that's what a lien isbasically the IRS protecting
themselves, so that if you aretrying to make money on the sale
of something, they're going toget paid the equity from that
sale?
Oh, go ahead.
Erin Gray (12:46):
Let me ask one question.
So in terms of qualifiedaccounts so like if you have
IRAs or 401ks or SEPs, are thoseprotected?
Because I always thought thatresident like your primary
residence, because there's somethings I guess obviously not
with taxes, but other areaswhere your primary residence is
protected.
That might be like from an LLCstandpoint, but that's all
another topic.
(13:07):
So what about your qualifiedaccounts as well?
Stephen Weisberg (13:11):
So in terms of property, in terms of real
property, personal property,that's all fair game.
But in terms of retirementaccounts, that more comes under
the levy aspect.
Okay, like we're talking aboutdifferent than the lien.
So the levy is where the IRS isissuing the levy and saying,
basically, we're taking what youown.
(13:33):
Basically we're taking what youown in terms, and that usually
applies to, like I said,retirement accounts.
That usually applies to bankaccounts and then wages or third
parties who are paying you ifyou're self-employed.
So, but the IRS can go afteryour retirement accounts, that
is fair game, they will go afterthem.
(13:55):
Your retirement account, thatis fair game, they will go after
them.
You know.
Erin Gray (14:00):
I think they generally go after the bank
accounts Non-qualified first.
Yeah, it's easier.
Stephen Weisberg (14:03):
Exactly so.
That's what they're going to goafter first.
Now, in terms of those leviesthat they put into place.
It doesn't happen right away,and when you owe taxes, you're
going to start getting noticesthat say you owe the money.
Basically the first one, andthere's supposed to be five, but
there's three main ones.
The first one is the Notice 14,which basically says you know
(14:28):
you owe us money.
But the next one is usually aCP-504 or a CP-503.
That's just the letter number,the notice number, and it will
say you know you owe us moneyand we're going to levy your
bank account.
Sorry, we're going to levy youryou know accounts.
Yeah, yeah your money.
Okay, right, it's very generic,yeah, right now, at that point,
(14:51):
when you get that letter, um,they can take your state refund.
So if you file a state taxreturn and then you get a refund
, they will take that, but theycannot actually levy your bank
account or wages at that point.
They're going to say that inthat notice, that they can, or
that they're going to, and atsome point they're able to, but
they can't.
(15:11):
Based on that notice, theystill need to send out a third
notice, which is what's reallythe final notice of intent to
levy, and that's the letternumber CP90 or LT11.
And I think there's a 1058 thatthey send out as well.
It depends on your situation.
You'll get one of those At thatpoint.
(15:34):
That's the last notice theyhave to send out before they can
do any sort of levies.
You have 30 days from thatnotice to either resolve your
tax debt with the IRS or you dohave the opportunity to file
what's called a CDP appeal.
Let's just call it an appeal.
You have the ability to appealthat notice and then try to work
(15:58):
out a resolution with appeals.
But if you don't do that, ifyou don't either resolve the
balance that you owe within the30 days or file an appeal, then
the IRS has the ability to levybank accounts and garnishment.
Erin Gray (16:10):
As you said, that that CP.
I have received those when Iwas with my family's
construction business because wehad 1099 contractors.
I'm, like you said, the CP, andso there have been times where
either the social securitynumber didn't match up or there
was some forced withholding onour part because they did not.
So if you've ever received that, so you could even receive that
(16:33):
from a business owner.
So if you've ever received that, so you could even receive that
from a business owner.
If you have had 1099 employeesnot employees, but 1099
contractors because they havenot paid in appropriately with
their estimated taxes and youare required to withhold Right.
Stephen Weisberg (16:48):
Yeah, different notice.
But you're right, cp may be infront of you.
So yeah, that's why I ring abell.
Erin Gray (16:54):
Yeah, don't mean to confuse everyone listening, but
when you said cp, I'm like, oh,I've seen that, I've seen that
one before.
I know they're obviouslydifferent cp.
You know different um notices,but um, okay, so you so
basically three, three strikes,if you want to call it.
That is like what are chances Ishould say three chances that
you get, and so do most people.
(17:15):
Are they in such a fear-basedstate that they just head in the
sand and they don't want toaddress it because they think
it's going to be so big and,yeah, just fear, you know well
there, there is certainly apercentage of people that you
know fall into that category.
Stephen Weisberg (17:32):
Um, they just, they're just putting their head
in the sand.
They don't know what to do.
You've got the IRS, which isbasically the largest, most
powerful collection agency onthe planet.
That's what they are.
They're there to collect andthey have more power than any
other entity in the country.
So either they're just afraidand they don't do anything and
(17:53):
they just wait, and then, let'ssay, their bank account gets
levied and then they call me.
Now a lot of people do callwhen they get that second notice
, that CP-504, cp-503, becausethat notice says, hey, we're
going to take your money Right.
And so then they get nervousand, like I said, they can't
actually do it after you know,right after that notice.
But it's starting to getserious and the IRS uses scary
(18:17):
language on that noticepurposefully, and it has the
appropriate responses.
People get nervous and it'sactually a good thing, because
then people can start to resolvethose tax issues before that
final notice comes out andthey're not waiting until they
actually can be levied.
Erin Gray (18:34):
Yeah, so tell me, how ?
Does I know that it's a lot offear based with what the IRS
does.
So how do they act in an actualeither audit and or when you
come in to help with the auditor the levy or the lien?
How, what is your experiencewith the IRS?
Stephen Weisberg (18:53):
Like in terms of like, are they going to be
like super aggressive, supermean, or like yeah?
Erin Gray (18:59):
So these are questions that I mean clients
and women that I've talked tohave had, and I'm like I've
never had that experience, so Ihave no idea.
So, it's from a place of pure,pure curiosity.
Stephen Weisberg (19:08):
Yeah, you know it depends on who you're
dealing with Now, most people.
So if you owe a lot of money,maybe have, like you know, five
or six returns that haven't beenfiled, you know you might have
a revenue officer assigned toyour case and that's a specific
person that's assigned to yourcase that you're going to work
with, that you're going to workwith.
I'm going to set that aside fora minute because, again, those
(19:31):
are kind of higher balances.
You know more complex, moredifficult cases to deal with.
But if you owe let's say,$15,000, you're going to be sent
to collections, the automatedcollections unit, and so you
don't actually have a specificperson assigned to your case.
You're going to be calling thiscollections unit and somebody's
(19:53):
going to pick up.
You don't know who it's goingto be and then if you have to
call back, it's going to be adifferent person.
Erin Gray (19:58):
You know, and is this part of the IRS or is this like
okay?
Stephen Weisberg (20:03):
No yeah, it's not.
There is some privatecollections sometimes that the
IRS gets involved.
But yes, this ACS unit is anactual unit of the IRS.
So you're going to be speakingto different people.
Generally well, you very wellcould get someone that's nice
and helpful.
There's a lot of times whereyou're not getting someone who's
(20:23):
that helpful.
Now, part of it is I hesitate touse it, but part of it is
incompetence.
Part of it is that they're justnot happy and they've been
dealing with taxpayers, you know, complaining to them all day.
And part of it is, again, theyknow what they can do.
Their whole goal is to get asmuch money from you as quickly
(20:45):
as possible.
So they're not going to sitthere and, you know, pat your
head and say, oh, you can dothis or you can do this, and if
you do this, then this willhappen.
This is the best way.
They're just going to tell you.
You know you need to pay us andthis is what you need to pay us
.
And when you don't know whatyour other options are, you know
it's very easy to besteamrolled and just say, okay,
(21:07):
I understand, I have this debtout there.
The IRS is telling me I have topay this.
I'm just going to do it becauseI have to and I'm afraid to
bring anything up.
And you're afraid to bringanything up because, one, you're
dealing with the IRS, but, two,you don't even know what to
bring up, why or how.
(21:27):
So it's a little bit of all ofit.
I guess.
The main point, though, isthey're not on your side.
They're not there tonecessarily help you.
I wouldn't say that they're allout to get you, but they're
just not there to necessarilyhelp you.
They're there to get money forthe IRS.
Erin Gray (21:41):
Yeah, so how long does the process take, from when
you like if you get a letter,and then when?
I guess it depends on if youhave a levy or a lien right.
That's a different.
Those are two different pathsto take.
But from kind of the start tofinish, what roundabout does
that look like for someone, oncethey get a letter, to go
(22:03):
through the process and finalizewhat they have to pay, and then
you're on a payment plan or youhave to pay in full or
something like that?
Stephen Weisberg (22:10):
Yeah, yeah, it depends.
So if you get, let's say youget your CP504 and then you call
me and you say, hey, I'm introuble, I need some help, it
depends on what type ofresolution that you qualify for.
But if you're going to look foran installment agreement, which
would be like a monthly paymentplan, whether that means that
you're paying off the entirebalance over, let's say, six
(22:33):
years, which is called astreamlined installment
agreement, or you might be ableto qualify for what's called a
partial pay installmentagreement, where you're going to
be paying the IRS on a monthlybasis but you never end up
paying off the total amount ofthe debt.
And then there's also what'scalled currently non-collectible
status, where you don't have topay anything to the IRS on a
(22:55):
monthly basis and collectionactivity stops, but it's a
somewhat temporary status,depending on what your income is
.
So if your income increases,they'll not kick you out of that
status and you'll have to goback to the drawing board.
So those are kind of threedifferent options.
And, to go back to your originalquestion, it depends a lot on,
(23:19):
really, the taxpayer.
You know, if I have, when Ihave all the documentation that
I need and all the information Ineed from the taxpayer to
negotiate with the IRS.
You know it might take a monthat the end of the day.
You know, if it's morecomplicated and I call the IRS
and they want more information,you know it might take longer,
(23:52):
but they can be done.
The resolutions with thosetypes of resolutions can be
completed relatively quickly aslong as I have the information
that I need from the taxpayer.
And just one other aspect ofthis is you know a lot of people
probably heard about theoffering compromise At least
that's what you always hear onthe radio and we can talk about
that a little further.
But like an offer in compromise, you'll file an offer in
compromise.
You may not hear back for six,seven, eight months, so that's
something that's a much longerordeal that you're dealing with.
Erin Gray (24:16):
Okay, two questions that I have then.
So as if you, let's say, thiswere to happen to me, you are my
attorney.
Am I ever going to be involvedwith the IRS when we work
together, when you and I worktogether, or is it more so?
You are basically the mediatorthat go between and you are the
one that talks to the IRS.
You negotiate, you come back tome and then we figure out what
the what the IRS has said, andthen what we I agree to, or what
(24:38):
they agree to, and then that'show it works.
Stephen Weisberg (24:41):
Yeah, yeah, and that's a good question
because it puts the taxpayersyou know, potential clients
peace of mind.
They don't have to talk to theIRS anymore.
You know I will take over alldiscussions with the IRS.
I'm taking over allnegotiations, all resolutions.
You know you do not have toworry about speaking to the IRS
anymore.
Erin Gray (25:00):
At that point, Okay, and then when you talked about,
or we can dive into, you knowthe misconceptions of offer and
compromise, but of the threedifferent options that you
listed, was any of thatconsidered offer and compromise?
Or offer and compromise iscompletely separate than those
different three options ofpayment.
Stephen Weisberg (25:17):
Yeah, offer and compromise is completely
separate.
And you know, if you don't mind, I will go in a little bit into
the offer and compromise.
So you know your listeners mayhave heard about the offer and
compromise from radio or from TVcommercials at 2 am at night.
You know that's kind of whenthose things come on.
And a lot of these big nationalkind of like 800-pound gorillas
(25:40):
, as I call them, of thesecompanies that are out there
that do you do quote unquote taxresolution.
They'll say, hey, we can reduceyour debt by 10.
You only have to pay 10% ofwhat you owe.
And we had this one guy whoowed $100,000, and he only paid
$1,000.
(26:01):
And we can do the same for you.
So it sounds too good to betrue and it's a little bit of
both.
In one respect it's not toogood to be true, it happens.
And another respect most people, the majority of people, more
than the majority of people, donot qualify for the offer and
(26:21):
compromise.
So when these companies do youhave a question?
Erin Gray (26:24):
I was gonna say why.
Why don't most people Okay?
Stephen Weisberg (26:28):
Yeah.
So when these companies saythese types of things, they
hopefully really did do anoffering compromise that was
that successful, and I've hadoffering compromises that have
been extremely successful.
I mean ridiculous numbers youknow, like owing 700,000 and
paying a thousand dollars to getrid of their entire debt.
I mean ridiculous numbers youknow like owing $700,000 and
paying $1,000 to get rid oftheir entire debt.
(26:49):
But again, most people don'tqualify.
It all depends on your finances.
It all depends on your assetsequity and assets.
It depends on what they callthe IRS calls your monthly
disposable income.
So most people don't qualifybecause you know if you are
making a lot of money and ifyou're not making a lot of money
(27:10):
.
If you're making, you know adecent amount of money, though,
and your expenses are what theyare and your expenses are are
reasonable amounts you're goingto have leftover.
Erin Gray (27:24):
Discretionary income.
Stephen Weisberg (27:25):
Yeah, especially what they call
discretionary income.
And the offering compromise isa formula, but basically they're
looking at your discretionaryincome.
They're determining how muchtime is left for you to be able
to pay off your debt.
If your discretionary incomewill pay off the debt over a
certain amount of time, they'renot going to give you an
offering compromise.
(27:46):
And then, even if you won't payoff the debt over a certain
amount of time, they're notgoing to give you an offer in
compromise.
And then, even if you do, evenif you won't pay off the debt
over the period of time thatthey're looking at, you know
they're going to multiply by 12what you, your monthly
disposable income.
And then they're also going tolook at any equity and assets.
So again, it all depends onyour equity and assets, your
(28:07):
income, your expenses.
There's so much that goes intoit and so like.
If you look at the percentages,I think offering compromises
that are accepted is at like 40%.
And it's because these bigcompanies out there tell
everyone that they qualify andthen the person the taxpayer
calls them and says, ok, I'mready to go.
(28:29):
And they say, ok, great, we'llfile your offer in compromise.
They don't know anything aboutthe case.
You can't tell someone, hey,we're going to resolve this case
for $0.10 without knowinganything about their case, but
they file them anyway.
And then they say, oh well, wefiled it, it got denied, sorry,
we did our best.
So it's like a 40% acceptancerate, whereas my acceptance rate
when I filed them was probably,you know, 95, 96, 97%, because
(28:54):
I'm not filing a frivolous offerin compromise.
I'm filing offer in compromiseonly if I've looked at
everything, I've done all theanalysis, I've gone through
everything and I believe thatthere's a very good shot that
the offer and compromise isgoing to be accepted.
Erin Gray (29:08):
Yeah, like you do, true, due diligence.
Stephen Weisberg (29:11):
Exactly.
Erin Gray (29:13):
And then so, from a tax attorney perspective, are
you all 50 states or is it statespecific for tax levy and liens
and things of that sort?
Stephen Weisberg (29:26):
All 50 states.
So as an attorney, I'm admittedto the bar in Michigan, but I
can practice in terms ofrepresentation in front of the
IRS.
I can practice in all 50 states.
I can also handle state issuesin all 50 states, as long as,
for attorney purposes, as longas I'm admitted to the bar in
one state, which is my homestate, michigan, I'm able to
(29:47):
represent nationwide.
Erin Gray (29:49):
Okay, I love it.
I've got payment options, but Ithink we talked about that.
Is there anything else that youwant to add that maybe I didn't
bring up for us to educate andempower our listeners with.
Stephen Weisberg (30:02):
You just want to make sure that you take care
of this early.
The earlier that you take careof this, the more leverage you
have.
You're already at adisadvantage with the IRS
because, like I said, they'rethe most powerful collection
agency on the planet.
You're already at adisadvantage when you hire an
attorney or tax representation.
You are less of a disadvantage,certainly much less of a
(30:22):
disadvantage.
But the later you, longer youwait, the less of a disadvantage
.
But the later you, the longeryou wait, the less leverage you
have.
I mean, if they've alreadylevied your bank account, let's
say you're kind of stuck therewhere, like you're just wanting
to get this bank accountreleased so that you don't
aren't going to have to pay allthis money, so you don't have to
kind of leverage as if you cameto me way before and we can
(30:43):
work out a settlement that makesthe most sense possible for you
and we can, you know, work thesystem as much as possible.
You're not in that crisis mode.
So the bottom line is get to usearly.
The other thing I just want toreiterate, which we just talked
about, but you know, theoffering compromise not everyone
qualifies.
So when you hear that on theradio, just don't believe it.
(31:03):
It does happen, but don'tbelieve it.
Just be very careful about whoyou're hiring to help you with
your tax debt.
Erin Gray (31:14):
I want to say, from the emotional and the nervous
regulation side because that'sreally more of the work that I
do, even though we do talk aboutand work through money is that,
obviously, if Stephen has abusiness doing this and I know
that there are lots of otherattorneys all throughout the 50
States this is a thing thatpeople experience.
So you can't if, if you are, youknow, if this ever does come up
(31:38):
which I don't wish that it everdoes and if you are listening
and you are currently in this,then obviously you are not alone
.
You are not, are listening andyou are currently in this, then
obviously you are not alone.
You are not the first personthat has gone through this.
Like we don't have to feel theshame and the guilt around this.
We can drop that and you knowfrom a place of love for
yourself and you know compassionof like we don't know what we
(32:00):
don't know, and that you knowseeking the help and having and
working with people that knowand are knowledgeable about this
to help you and to guide you isworth every single penny.
Stephen Weisberg (32:13):
Absolutely.
I mean, I 100% agree with that.
There is no shame in this and,first of all, this is my
expertise, so I see this on adaily basis.
There's certainly no shame.
Come to me, I'm not going tofeel like, oh my gosh, I can't
believe this happened.
It happens for so many reasons.
There's no shame.
Whatever happened happened willhelp you get out of this.
(32:36):
But what I also wanted to justrefer back to like you said, the
emotional part like you'regoing to be anxious, you're
going to feel like paralyzed,and that's why you call someone
like me whether it's me orsomeone else you want to get a
tax professional involved,because the longer you wait, the
worse the situation is going tobe.
But I understand why people doit.
I get it.
But just as you hear us talkingtoday, just remember there are
(32:58):
people out there that can helpyou.
You'll feel so much more peaceof mind.
There'll be a weight lifted offyour chest and you'll just know
it's being taken care of andyou don't have to worry about it
as much.
Erin Gray (33:08):
Yeah, it's like that scary monster that's in the
closet.
I mean, it doesn't help that,you know, like, like even you
saying like the, but it is kindof like the truth.
It's like we built this IRS upas this, like I don't even want
to say big brother, like worsethan that, right, like that it's
just this entity that, like,has so much control and power
and we have created so much feararound that, versus like the
(33:31):
monster or the thing underneathyour bed, like the quicker that
you look at it, the faster thatyou face it, the more you know
empowered and confident that youcan feel to move forward.
I wanted to say one other thing, back to your comment around,
you know, people go through this.
There have been women that Ihave helped that have have had,
(33:52):
you know, gone through this, andwe don't teach self-employment
tax, like if you aren't workingwith a CPA or a enrolled agent,
or I mean I don't even know ifmy business classes talked about
self-employment tax, you know.
So it's like we're not learningthis, like most entrepreneurs
don't typically take businessclasses and go through business,
(34:13):
right, and so just, I wouldjust say that to each of you
listening like we don't knowwhat we don't know, and a lot of
this is we learn on the jobtraining, and so I want to
encourage you that if you knowyou are in this position, you
know reach out to Steven, have aconversation with him and you
know take care of your financialhouse so that you aren't in
(34:35):
this position for any longer oryou don't have to pay more.
Like, I think, the taxes andthe penalty.
I don't know which one is worse.
The penalties are the the um,not the taxes, but the interest.
There you go, the interest.
Stephen Weisberg (34:47):
Penalties are way worse, way worse, yep.
Erin Gray (34:50):
So perfect.
Thank you, Steven, for comingon.
You're welcome For sharing yourtime with us.
Stephen Weisberg (34:55):
Thanks for having me.
I appreciate it yeah.
Erin Gray (34:57):
Thanks for listening, guys.
I'll see you next time.
I would love it if you wouldleave a review for this podcast.
It helps the show grow and Ilove hearing from you.
And if this episode resonatedwith you and you have a business
bestie who is also avoiding hermoney, will you share this
episode with her?
My mission is to help morefemale entrepreneurs feel safe
(35:18):
and empowered with their money.
Okay, I'll see you in the nextepisode.
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