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What if your relationship with money reflects your deepest beliefs about yourself? In this episode, Jess Hershey, founder of MOCA Business Services interviewed me in her community and we unpack how our current financial reality often reveals our beliefs about our worthiness and safety.
We explore why slowing down during money stress isn’t just self-care—it’s a smart business move. I share how Human Design can guide more aligned financial decisions, why business naturally moves in cycles (not constant growth), and how shifting from taking energy to giving energy can transform sales.
Key Takeaways:
- Your relationship with money often mirrors how you see yourself.
- Business follows natural ebbs and flows
- Financial stress activates survival mode, blocking creative ideas and clear decision making.
- Self-regulation is an important business skill
- Bringing more fun into money can heal strained financial patterns.
If you want to connect with Jess, you can do so here:
- MOCA Business Services (https://www.mocabusinessservices.com)
Want to learn more or connect with me?
Step 1: Join my FREE Facebook Community.
Connect, share, and learn how to master your money with other women just like you.
➡️ Join here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/941450038160915
Step 2: Grab your FREE Human Design chart
Curious what your Human Design chart reveals about how you're uniquely designed to make aligned financial decisions?
➡️ Get your chart here: https://generatealifewelllived.com/receive-your-human-design-chart
Step 3: Ready to transform your relationship with money and build true financial confidence?
Let’s create a plan that feels aligned, intentional, and empowering—just for you.
➡️ Schedule your free clarity call here (https://tidycal.com/eringray/45-min-call-with-erin)
Money doesn't have to feel overwhelming. Let's create a plan that feels nurturing and custom to you.
From my soul to yours,
Erin
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erin Gray (00:00):
any business, you have ebbs and flows and I think
what happens is we freak outwhen we are in that trough right
, but we're not thinking like wepay attention to the highs, but
then, when we're in the trough,we're like, oh my gosh,
something's wrong versus likethe law of rhythm is like nature
right, like there's nature isnot full blown all the time, and
(00:21):
it's the same way with business.
Welcome back to your money.
Your roles podcast with me,erin Gray.
I'm so glad you're here.
Today.
I am sharing an interview I didwith Jess Hershey, founder of
Mocha business services, wherewe dove deep into the emotional
side of entrepreneurship,especially around money.
(00:42):
You know we talked about thefinancial mindset it really
takes to run a business and howpressure and fear and even
feeling panic can shape the waythat we actually show up.
We also explored why slowingdown and really learning to
self-regulate during allfinancial seasons is so
important, plus how to build arelationship with money that's
(01:05):
truly aligned with who you areand how you want to live your
life.
We even got into how humandesign can bring clarity and
support as you navigate thesebig decisions in your life and
also in your business.
I know that there's so muchhere that will resonate with you
.
So let's dive in.
Jess Hershey (01:21):
I asked you to have this conversation with me
today because I am feeling ashift in the financial landscape
right now.
It's really been over the lastyear and a half I think really
early 2024, I started to seepeople feel more nervous about
money.
(01:41):
I think there's been a lot ofthings going on in the last year
and a half um, there and andand and just kind of continues
to be.
Now we're in the middle of taxseason right now as we're making
this, so there's that um itjust it feels like there's been
a lot on people's minds umaround money and I'm seeing more
nervousness to um to spend, um.
(02:07):
I'm seeing people nervous abouttheir businesses and kind of
what to do in order to stayfinancially stable and um, you
and I have talked about beforethat there are.
There are kind of cycles that wego through, like just in
general, seasonally.
There are um cycles where weit's a little bit slower in the
summer and it's a little bitslower around the holidays.
People are spending less inthose times and then January and
(02:30):
September, people are ready tospend all of the money, do all
of the things, and so there arecycles we go through naturally
and I feel like this is kind ofa bigger cycle that we've
entered in, where people areorienting a little bit
differently to their money,thinking about it differently,
and I'm picking up on on just alot of nervousness.
Um, so I thought it would begreat to have a conversation
(02:52):
with you about this, about thework that you do and and kind of
tying that in so um, to to openit up.
I'd love to hear you just kindof reflect on what I just said,
that I'm seeing in this lastlittle bit and what you're
seeing and how that's feeling toyou.
Erin Gray (03:08):
It's interesting that you said that, because when you
, what came to mind too was likeduring COVID, and you know,
like I think that there are.
I think that if you put on thebuyer's hat, I think as a buyer
we have become more informed.
No-transcript buyer's hat.
(03:51):
You know, it's like we're very,we're more um, not the word
decisive, but we're, we're moreparticular about who we invest
in or what we invest in, becausewe have been, some of us have
been, burned.
So I think that there's thatpart of it.
And then I think, from the partthat you're talking about with
the financial part, is like, Ithink there are seasons and I
(04:13):
think also too of is that alsojust coming up?
Because we already have thatfear within us.
So the point I was trying tomake with COVID is, for some
people that went through COVID,it was terrifying.
They didn't, you know, it wasalmost like a shutdown for them.
For some people it didn'treally impact them from a from a
(04:37):
fear-based place, and so I'mcurious if some of this is what
you're describing is, do wealready have that fear within us
and it's coming out becauseit's the circumstances
presenting itself, and so we're,we're getting shown where do
our really deep seated fearsalready lie and it's presenting
as money, but it's, you know,those deeper seated fears that
we have within us.
Jess Hershey (04:59):
I think that makes a lot of sense in the idea of
this, this, uh, the big stuffthat is happening right now
because, like I said, going backto the seasonal shifts, I feel
like I see every year peoplepanicking, and I experienced
this myself.
When things start to get alittle bit slower in the summer
and the winter, you're like, ohmy gosh, do I need to do
something different?
Like, is it me?
(05:20):
Is it what's happening, youknow?
And so I think it is reallyeasy for those types of things
to surface because they'realready existing, because
there's something else therethat needs to be examined, which
is, which is, the work that youdo.
So this is, this is great.
Erin Gray (05:36):
I think also too, like the law of rhythm, I think,
in business.
I don't know where it came from, where it got started, where we
bought into, like businesses,just like this in, you know, in
the construction business, wehad ebbs and flows, right, like
that's just part of it.
And in any business you haveebbs and flows.
And I think what happens is wefreak out when we are in that
(05:56):
trough, right, but we're, we'renot thinking like we pay
attention to the highs, but thenwhen, when, when we're in the
trough, we're like we payattention to the highs, but then
when, when, when we're in thetrough, we're like, oh my gosh,
something's wrong.
Versus like the law of rhythm islike nature, right, like
there's.
Nature is not full blown all thetime.
And it's the same way withbusiness.
And I think, if we don't look atit from that perspective and we
(06:16):
think like we should always begrowing, growing, growing, it's
like, but where do we actuallyeither, you know, have some even
out or even some even, actually, either you know, have some
even out or even some, even ifyou're in a troughs, how is that
actually helpful to you?
How is that allowing you morespace to figure out what you do
want what is working, what isn'tworking, you know, if you're
always on this upward trajectoryand you're going 90 miles an
(06:37):
hour, where are you giving yourspace, self, the space, your
business, the space you know?
Just really, I don't think alot of us intentionally put in
time in our calendar to justponder and think, and so
sometimes that happens for us,for us to look and see what is
working, what isn't working,what do I want to continue to do
and re um recommit to thatfaith and that certainty that we
(07:04):
have in ourselves in what we'reyou know in our business, what
we're creating in the world, howwe're serving people.
Because if, every time,something outside of us, that is
such a reactionary way of beingright, if every, if something
changes outside of us, and thenwe think, oh, my goodness,
something's wrong.
We haven't developed the skillset within us to be like I am
certain, I am confident, I amresourceful, I will figure this
(07:27):
out.
You know, and sometimes itmight be you know some things we
do need to change.
But if we're in this rushed,panic state, how are we able to
look within and be like, hey,you know what?
I need to increase my certaintyin myself, I need to increase
my confidence, I need toincrease, you know, my belief
that what I'm, I'm on the rightpath and you know, maybe it is,
(07:48):
maybe I need to learn patience.
I mean, there's just so manylessons that we might you know,
that are coming up for us, thatwe need to learn, and I think
that we've been sold that, likebusiness is always up and it's I
don't know, if that's true.
Jess Hershey (08:02):
At least I haven't seen it.
Erin Gray (08:04):
You know, that has been my experience.
Jess Hershey (08:06):
Yes, yeah, yes, I agree, I think it can be such a
such a gift to have time, to beable to to reflect and to to
spend time being a little bitslower sometimes, and I'll feel
that way sometimes when I willget sick, if I am, if I am
pushing too hard and I catchsomething and I'm like, okay, I
(08:28):
need to just sit here andreflect for a little while.
I think there's definitelyseasons for that, because you
reflect and you, you get tolearn things that then, when
you're feeling better or whenthings are picking up again, you
get to kind of take andimplement, which is great, um,
but if, in those troughs thatyou're talking about, we are
just in a complete panic andrunning around in circles, then
(08:51):
it's not going to be a good useof time for anything Like when,
when things do pick up again, um, we're going to be recovering
because we were running aroundin circles, and so being able to
be in a place where we can, um,have the wisdom to know that
there are cycles, that we'regoing to go through, that there
are ups and downs, and beingable to plan for that and have
(09:13):
peace with that and be presentwith that, feels like a really
big thing.
So I want to talk a little bitabout some of the running around
in circles, some of the thingsthat happen when people are in
this fear-based headspace, andthen go into talking a little
bit about what we can do aboutit instead.
So some of the things that Isee, and I definitely have
(09:38):
experienced on my own when I getin a place of being under
financial pressure, is this kindof like desperation that comes
in, particularly with sales andmarketing, and so we've all kind
of seen like this aggressivemarketing technique or you know,
when you you can just tell youcan sense that someone has this
(09:59):
like I need to close the sale,and the feeling you get when you
feel that from somebody else'syeah.
Erin Gray (10:07):
How do I run faster?
Jess Hershey (10:12):
Yeah, so.
So, uh, tell me a little bitabout your, your thoughts and
experience with that.
Erin Gray (10:17):
Yeah, I think.
I mean I'm sure that I wasprobably there when I first
started my coaching practicebecause I was building it from.
You know, looking back now, Iwas building it from a place of
fear.
Right, I was there.
Probably was some part of methat was trying to build it to
prove to my dad you know what Ican create my own.
You know business Like I.
You know there was that wholething of like I don't want to
(10:37):
buy your business, I don't wantto do that, and so that whole,
you know when in the beginning Iprobably was very much in a
fear-based place, like, oh, Ihave to replace my income and I
can't use any of our savings andI have to hurry and hurry and
pressure, you know, and so we'veall been there, right, and we
know.
Here's the thing is you know,when you are there, because how
you feel in your body, and sothis is what some of the work
(10:59):
that I do is like really slowingdown and getting connected,
because when you are in thatplace, you know really there's
all kinds of emotions, butreally there's like love and
there's fear, like if we justreally boil it down to those two
emotions.
So when you are in fear, you'rein a very like what you're
saying, that like I call it liketaking energy.
Like you want them to buysomething because you need
(11:20):
something right, versus whenyou're in love and sufficiency
and like, listen, I have a greatproduct and I also understand.
If you don't want to buy it,that's okay.
Like there's someone else thatwill, that's very giving energy.
And I think you have to slowdown to decipher where you in.
And if we are constantly likebecause the body is like this is
(11:42):
this is life or death, rightnow, you need to hurry up, right
, that's what it feels like, atleast in my body.
So, the more that we can getpracticed at feeling that I mean
, I just felt it this morning.
I was like, ooh, what ishappening here?
And I was like, hang on asecond and I just allowed myself
and I did a little bit ofjournaling and I'm like, oh,
okay, this is just what the bodylikes to do.
(12:03):
When you've had so much ease andcalm, it's almost like a window
of tolerance where it justserves up that like, hey, fear,
you haven't felt fear in a while.
Like you need to feel fearright now.
And so, recognizing thatsometimes, like our bodies are
used to feeling some of thoselower vibration emotions, like
fear, you know.
(12:23):
And so when you're in it,really, I say like getting to
the point of like what I callclean energy, of like I am here
to serve you, I am here to offermy solution and if you want it,
great I would.
I think it's an amazing choiceif you take it, and if you don't
, that's okay too.
And I think, when we come fromthat fear-based place, we're
(12:43):
like we need you to say yes,because I need this Right and
this comes with.
It's like anything else.
It's a skill set that wepractice and we see like, ooh,
am I in?
What energy am I in when I'mtalking to someone?
Jess Hershey (12:59):
Yeah, I'm.
I'm like feeling myself takedeep breaths as you're talking
about slowing down.
I'm like feeling myself takedeep breaths as you're talking
about slowing down.
It's just.
It's so nice to have somebodyelse say it to you, but I feel
like doing one of the bestthings you can do for yourself.
I think one of the best thingsI've done for myself is teaching
myself to have, like the toolsand the recognition to stop,
(13:22):
like just, even if I can't fixit right away, I can't change my
mindset right away, how do Istop and slow down?
And I was just listening to oneof your podcast episodes about
the questions that you askyourself to get clear on your
money blocks, and I thinkquestions are my favorite tool.
If I can have a question orthree questions, like you had in
(13:43):
this instance where, um, when Ifeel myself feeling panic, that
triggers me to ask a questionand then I have to sit and think
about it and it makes me slowdown enough to become a little
more aware of what's going onwith me and then maybe look at
changing it.
Erin Gray (14:00):
Yeah, I think you know, like you're saying, what
are your go-to tools in yourtoolkit?
Because when you're in thatstate, you're not necessarily
thinking, because you literallyare in fight, flight, freeze or
fawn right, like we we wouldn'tterm it as that way, but that's
what the body is doing, right.
And so when you have this,these practices in place, like
(14:21):
for me, like you were saying,like, okay, I returned back to
my breath, or I'll go put myfeet outside, you know, or I'll
just go for a walk and move someof that energy, like you said,
ask some of those questions,like really getting clear.
So like what are a couple ofthings that you can, each of us,
which they're going to bedifferent right, things that you
can, each of us, which they'regoing to be different, right?
But what are those couple ofthings that we can always go
back to our toolkit when we'refeeling this way, to to calm our
(14:45):
nervous system and to tell us Imean my degree teacher, I love
her.
She she'll say things likeyou're okay, you're okay, you
can do this Right.
And it's like that's what wehave to tell ourselves.
Right, like this morning I waslike it's okay.
I've felt this before I canfeel any emotion.
I know what this feels likeit's okay, aaron, you're, you
know, and it's it's like whatyou would do to a five-year-old,
(15:08):
but literally like that's whatwe need in that moment, like
it's okay, right In this momentI am okay and and I know it
doesn't feel like that in thebody.
But it's one of those thingsthat the more that it happens,
the more that we see, oh, we cancalm ourself, we can soothe
ourselves.
Then we can come out of thatfight flight freeze and we can
actually think from a creativeplace, because nothing happens.
You cannot think creativelywhen you are in, you know, fight
(15:31):
flight freeze, stressed panic,like no good ideas come from
that.
Jess Hershey (15:35):
Yep, exactly, which brings me to the next
thing I was going to say that Isee a lot when people are in
this state is quickly movingfrom one thing to the next.
So what I'm doing must not beworking.
You don't necessarily know that, you don't necessarily even
think about that, you're justjumping to.
(15:55):
I'm going to try this, I'mgoing to try this, I'm going to
try this.
Suddenly, your audience has noidea what you do.
You're there, yanked all overthe place with everything, and
then nothing that you're puttingout there is actually solid, is
actually aligned.
It's maybe based on kind ofthose best practice tips that
(16:15):
you hear that maybe aren't a waythat you would want to be
markets to.
There's just a lot of um.
It's really easy to get pulledinto those things.
I can't.
I mean I don't know how manytimes in my business that I was
like, oh, I should do thisbecause it feels like a solution
to you, and when you actuallythink about it and sit with it
and feel it doesn't feel like analigned solution.
It's a decision made out ofthat, that panic, um, and that
(16:38):
financial pressure, um.
So, yes, tying back intoeverything you're talking about
with that, uh, when you'rerunning and and making those
decisions quickly there.
There's no actual likecreativity or groundedness in
those decisions.
You have to stop first and makea decision from that place,
even though it feels like you'regoing against everything your
body is telling you to do inthat moment.
Erin Gray (17:00):
And I mean I know people listening to this might
be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, butgive me, like, the actual
strategies and the practicaltools.
Okay, and I will say to thatperson cause I used to be this
person and I still show upsometimes I'm like hang on, a
second, Erin, is this is thepractical strategy, this is the
actual tool.
Right, this is the quick threesteps.
(17:21):
This is the quick, you knowfast money making thing.
This is the stuff.
Right, it's not sexy, it's not.
You know it's not fun to be likeyou know I'm sweating or I have
these rashes or you know I'vebeen on the toilet or whatever
it is, because you're actuallyfeeling and processing emotions
and you're going through thingsthat you have suppressed and
repressed for so long.
But here's what I will say isthat when you do this work,
(17:43):
because you're going to takeyourself wherever you go, so
whatever you're making right now, you're going to just amplify
that 10 exit, 100 exit, whatever, Right.
And so do you actually want totake who you are as a person
right now as you grow yourbusiness, or do you want to slow
down and develop the skill setso that when this stuff does
happen and it will when you're10 X, a hundred X, you have the
(18:06):
skill set and the tools to comeback to be like okay, Right,
Because how we build and what we, who we are, we're going to
build, that we think like we'regoing to get to some magic
number and it's all going to goaway.
It's like it's never going togo away, Right?
And the more that we can leaninto that like I used to get.
So I remember we were stillliving in Texas and it was maybe
2021.
(18:27):
And I remember turning to myhusband and be like I am so
tired of this money thing, likeI just want to be over it
already.
You know, almost like thisfrustration and it's like at
that point I realized like okay,what if, aaron, you never, you
never are?
What if it's always like, whatif that is what your soul came
here to actually do?
And every level you're going tofeel it again and you're going
(18:47):
to transcend it and like easinginto that versus like I hurry up
, I want this to go away, fixthis really quick, so I don't
have to feel this anymore.
Jess Hershey (18:57):
Yeah, that's great , um, so let's talk about a
little bit more of like what,what this means we slow down, um
.
How can we put some a differenttype of relationship with money
in place so that we can not bethrown off so much when these
(19:19):
things come up?
So, staying grounded, buildinga better relationship with money
is something that you talkabout a lot, and I love the idea
, even alone, of building arelationship with money is just
something that wasn't ever on myradar growing up.
That was not something that Iever heard.
Like money was this thing thatI had to make.
(19:41):
I had to achieve.
It was this you know constantpressure, but having a
relationship with money makesyou kind of stop and be like huh
, like what, what, what, how doI do that?
Um, and so I want to talk alittle bit about, um kind of
some of the work you do withhelping people build a
relationship with money.
Um, and how you know theimportance of stopping and
(20:04):
reflecting and getting to knowyourself can help you show up
for that relationship in a waythat is going to be successful.
Erin Gray (20:12):
Yeah, I think every everything right Is is our
relationship.
It's literally our perception,our thoughts, our feelings about
our spouse, me and you.
Outside money, you knowbusiness, all of these things.
So, and what I have found isthat our relationship with money
is very similar to what wethink about ourselves.
(20:34):
And so what I came to realizewas, you know, four or five
years ago, it was very much notenough.
It was all rooted in inadequacy, unworthiness, undeservedness,
and that's what I thought aboutmy money and that's what I
thought about myself helpingpeople.
(20:55):
I think the first step is alwaysawareness.
Like, actually write down whatdo you think about money when I
say you know your bank accountis zero or your bank account is
negative, what do you feel inyour body?
When I say you have $500,000 inyour account, what do you feel
in your body?
And if you are like vacillating, like oh, it feels really good
(21:17):
and oh, it doesn't Right, thatthat's an invitation for us to
be like oh, how are we dependingour feelings based on some
external thing outside of us,right?
And so I always say start withlike what is your relationship
Like?
If I were to ask you, you know,if your kid were to come to you
.
Is there a certain level thatthere's like, ooh, that feels
(21:38):
too much.
What is your language about?
Like, oh, that's expensive, orI can't afford that, or I can't
invest in myself.
Or just recognizing what is thelanguage that you're currently
using when you talk about money?
And then, from there, how doyou actually want to be in a
relationship with money?
Like I use my husband as anexample because I feel like we
(22:02):
have a really groundedrelationship.
I don't.
There's certainty there,there's trust there.
Like I'm not sitting over there, being like is he going to
cheat on me?
Is he going to come home?
Is he going to be there for metoday?
Like when you, when you say itlike that from a spouse
relationship, like that's a lotof times what we think about
money, are you going to be there?
You know like well, you knowlike we don't trust it.
We don't trust it.
(22:22):
Like, are you coming?
Are you coming?
Are you coming?
It's kind of like the samething that we were with cells,
right, it's like that energy andso we're blocking it when we're
from that place.
Versus like money loves tosupport us, right, money loves
to be with us, it wants to betaken care of Like I think money
is masculine and it's feminine,right.
Like it loves to flow to us, itloves to give us what we want,
(22:43):
which is very feminine and Ithink it's very masculine.
Like it loves to provide for us.
It loves to you, know, and sowhat?
How do you want to be withmoney?
And I don't think I mean thisis not taught in schools.
This is not taught, like noneof my finance classes were like.
So let's talk about yourrelationship with money.
You know it's very what I call3d.
(23:03):
You know very much of like thisis business, this is how
accounting works, this is howinvestments work, right, but
like our relationship with it isreally what matters.
If it stays around, if we growit, if it, you know, expands, or
if it comes to us quickly or itleaves quickly.
Like that is all based on howwe feel about money.
Jess Hershey (23:27):
Absolutely.
Now tell me a little bit abouthow um human design plays into
this as a tool, cause you have afour part video workshop series
that um walks people throughfinancial ease with human design
, and I know you use that as atool for self-identity so that
you can be in that relationship.
(23:48):
So tell me a little bit moreabout that.
Erin Gray (23:50):
Yeah, I think there's a couple of things.
I learned that you makedecisions from your head,
growing up, very pros and conslist and things of that sort.
So, first and foremost is likehelping people tap back into
their intuition and using yourdecision-making style to that,
to trust that, because we havebeen so conditioned to like what
(24:13):
are the pros and cons and, youknow, does that sound like good
financial advice?
And so we've been veryconditioned to be what I call in
our head, versus actuallytrusting.
Here you go back to trust,right, trusting our bodies,
trusting whatever you believe inGod, spirit, source, divine,
you know, universal intelligence, like there's something that's
bigger than us, that we areco-creating with, and like are
(24:35):
we tapping into that or are wethinking that we're doing this
all on our own?
So, first and foremost isunderstanding like how do you
make decisions and also how doyou run a business?
Like there's five types and Ithink about like the manifestor
type is very much.
I think the way that thebusiness world has been um is
(24:57):
very like you have an idea andyou go initiate and you just do
it Right, but the 91% of us arenot manifestors, right, like
we're very much so.
Like we respond to things, we,and so when I was trying to
build a business from that space, it felt like I was forcing
every single thing because I wasdoing it from, not not a
(25:19):
genuine place of how my designis.
So it's, it's thedecision-making, it's also
trusting your intuition, andthen I have, you know, kind of
broken down how, like eachcenter, how it applies to money,
like I think a lot of us aretrying to build our business
from lack from fear, fromfeeling unworthy, from feeling,
(25:41):
um, not lovable, and so we'retrying here to go back to that,
getting energy.
We're trying to have ourbusiness fill our cup Right, but
if our cup has a hole in it,like there's nothing that we can
, there's no amount that we cando right To fill that up.
And so really seeing like how,has, how has your chart played
(26:01):
into your relationship withmoney, and then how to start
like really I call it likesettling back into yourself and
trusting yourself.
And you know, like settlingback into yourself and trusting
yourself, and you know, learningto love yourself, changing your
self-concept.
You know, we, we came herefully, abundant love and light,
and then somewhere along the way, right, someone told us or said
(26:22):
something and then we thoughtotherwise.
So really returning what I calllike back home to ourselves and
really building a business froma place of wholeness, um, of
complete, like completeness.
You know, it's like an additionto versus, like I hope if I get
this then I'm going to feelsuccessful.
If I get to this number, thenI'm going to feel X, y, z,
versus like generating thatwithin us and so kind of showing
(26:46):
in, in using your design to, toshow you like how to navigate
that.
Jess Hershey (26:51):
That's so good.
Yeah, going back to yourrelationship parallel with you
and your husband or any, youknow our relationship with our
spouse, significant other,friend, even, um, I.
Something I've experienced inmy life is that if you're, if
you're not doing your work toyou know, not have a hole in
your cup to make sure you'retaken care of and you understand
(27:12):
and know and love yourself.
It's really hard to loveanother person, um, completely,
and you can feel wanting to havethat person get it from that
person instead of getting itfrom yourself.
And I feel like a lot of us canrelate to that type of
experience and this.
Putting this back on money Ifwe don't take the time to heal
(27:34):
the way that we feel about money, to write the story that we
want to have, then to be able tohave a relationship with it,
isn't going to be possible.
So not only has have we neverheard that term and it's never
occurred to us.
It's not possible unless you dothat work first and really
understand yourself.
Does that feel accurate to you?
Erin Gray (27:50):
Yeah, totally.
I mean it's like we're tryingto change the external to get us
to feel on the internal.
But that's not the way.
Like we live in a cause andeffect world, right.
Like we have to feel this wayfirst and then we see it in the
external.
And I think so many of us havebeen taught, I mean like the
whole.
I mean we don't have cable.
So when we go like to differenthotels like my kid loves to
(28:11):
watch cable because we have nocable and there's no like ads or
whatever, but you know, there'salways some type of commercial
of like, oh, this is what youneed, this is what you need.
Like we're taught in the worldright.
Like that there's somethingwrong with you and you need this
thing to feel this way, versusno, you feel this first and then
(28:31):
it and it shows up on theoutside.
And with money I think so oftenI mean it'll make me cry, cause
I'm just like how many of usand this was for me for sure of
like I was so hard on money,like I can't imagine if that was
a person, if that was mydaughter, of what I used to say
to money like you're not goodenough, it's never enough.
You know what I used to say tomoney like you're not good
(28:53):
enough, it's never enough, youknow, and just that feeling of
like yeah, inadequacy and notenoughness.
Well, why would money want tohang out with us?
You?
know why would money want tolike.
It's almost like verbal abuse,like why do I want to go and be
in a relationship with someone's?
Like you're not enough.
Here you are again not here.
You know it.
Just it doesn't feel good.
And and money, like money, wantsto have fun.
(29:14):
We money wants to support us,Money wants us to trust it.
You know and like and I dothink that I know I sound, I'm
like I'm talking out both sidesof my ass Like I think that we
will constantly up-level right,so the healing's never done and
also we can change a belief veryquickly too.
You know, yeah, so likeallowing for both of those parts
(29:35):
, um, but we could just decide.
You know, like, I want to havefun with money.
What would that look like inorder for me to have fun with
money?
And it doesn't mean you need,you need to go use all your
savings, but maybe that's likehey, money, you want to go on a
date, you want to go.
You know, like what do you liketo do something small that
maybe isn't so outside yourwindow of tolerance.
Like you know what, likeyesterday I was like you know
what?
I'm going to go buy some nailpolish.
(29:55):
I'm going to go get a littlelatte.
You know, like I'm just goingto go have some fun with money,
you know.
So it's just like how often dowe practice having fun with
money versus it's just a seriousthing that we have to have and
it's, you know, that attachmentthat we have to it and it feels
like a lot of pressure.
Jess Hershey (30:12):
You know Absolutely, yeah, yeah.
I think that's all really greatthe idea of continuing to work
towards this mindset, that thatyou can both make a quick
decision that can help you rightaway From listening to this
(30:32):
video.
You can make a decision thatI'm going to go on a date with
money and have some fun, andthat can make a big impact.
But it is something we're goingto learn again and again and
we're going to go through thesecycles.
So one of the things the lastthing I wanted to kind of talk
about is another great tool, Ithink, for me in keeping that
awareness and bringing myselfback to this again and again so
(30:53):
that I can learn it a little bitmore and get a little bit
better and practice these toolsis other people.
Um, I think having other peoplearound, it's really easy as an
entrepreneur to kind of siloyourself in and, um, be doing
something for a long time andget really far down the road
without anybody saying, hey,have you thought about it this
(31:14):
way?
Or, you know, like getting youout of your perspective.
And I am so fortunate to havegreat humans in my life that ask
me how I'm doing that, um, askme what's going on with my
business and my life and I getto reflect and I find myself
reflecting in answering that inways that I I haven't on my own.
(31:34):
You know that people bring itout of you and then,
additionally, when you have acommunity of entrepreneurs,
especially, and you're feelingtight on money, instead of
panicking and saying what I'mdoing must not be working, you
can say are you guys feelingthis?
And they can go oh yeah, thingsare slow right now.
It's not just you and you getto skip that whole panic phase.
So this is, I think, a lot ofthe value for me of building
(31:57):
this MOCA community and you haveyour own community as well that
you focus on money mindset tips.
Is that right?
Erin Gray (32:04):
Yeah, I recently started.
You know I'm not like a hugesocial media person, but I'm
like where can I have acommunity for women to like,
come to share?
Like a safe space, you know, asafe space to share and talk
about what they're experiencingwith money and you know, having,
you know me asking, invitingquestions for them to ponder,
(32:25):
but a place where we can say youknow what?
Because every woman I have evertalked to and I mean men, men
show it differently, but womenit's like they think that
they're the only ones that gothrough this, right, and so when
I say you know what, yourresponse is, just like you know
someone else I just talked to,you can literally see their
shoulders relax.
(32:45):
Like we think that we're doinglike what you're saying.
We're doing this by ourselves,because we think that there's
something wrong with us, right,but this isn't something.
I think maybe it's changingsomewhat in the spiritual world
but like this is something thatwe weren't taught growing up,
right, and you don't get inbusiness school.
(33:05):
And so if you don't get itthere, well, where are you
supposed to get it and connectwith?
Get it there, well, where areyou supposed to get it and
connect with?
And I think for a lot of likemasterminds you have such a
sometimes it can feel like anego place where it doesn't
necessarily feel safe to be likeyeah, I'm having a really hard
time right now, you know likewhere you just get to let the
(33:26):
guard down and you get to sharesome of that stuff.
I think it depends on on themastermind that you're in.
But I think that it's reallyimportant to have community Like
as humans, right?
We want connection, we want toconnect and relate to other
humans and if you're a one man,I mean I recognize it in myself.
(33:47):
When I'm doing too much work bymyself, I'm like I need to be
with the humans, you know.
And so recognizing that withinyourself and for some of us it's
going to be different levels,right, I mean, there are some
people that want to be with themall the time, there's some that
come in and out, whatever, butjust the community is such an
important piece because I thinkwhen you, first of all, you have
(34:11):
someone that can see you in adifferent light than how you see
yourself, right, Like when youhear the stories in your brain
and you're, you know, going downthat rabbit hole like you're
talking about, I can be likeJess, what are you talking about
?
You're amazing.
You know what I mean Like, but,but really, and not not just
fill you up with, but likeliterally, like you see someone
in a different view than howthey see themselves.
(34:33):
They, you see them in theirhigher self, and I think that
that really matters and I thinkit really helps.
Like you said, it gets you outso much quicker.
Um, because you have someone toand you also have people to
celebrate with you.
Like it's fun to celebrate,like you know, energetically,
like the more people that arecelebrating someone's success,
(34:54):
like that is a reflection thatthat's there for you too, and so
having that, I think, is anamazing thing.
Jess Hershey (35:00):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I think it's just a needfor being a human in general,
but I especially love the ideaof a community centered around.
The idea of a communitycentered around come talk about
money, because even in thereally comfortable groups and
connections that we findourselves in, money feels like
(35:20):
this topic that we just we don'ttalk about.
We might talk about some of thepain points of I think I need
to work on my sales call.
What someone's really sayingthere is I'm struggling with
money, but it's really hard tosay I am struggling with money.
Um, so having a safe place todo that feels very powerful.
Yeah, that's great.
Thank you for the wonderfulconversation on all of these
(35:42):
great resources and tips and itwas a pleasure to chat with you
today.
Erin Gray (35:46):
Thanks for having me, jess, always a pleasure.
any business, you have ebbs and flows and I think
what happens is we freak outwhen we are in that trough right
, but we're not thinking like wepay attention to the highs, but
then, when we're in the trough,we're like, oh my gosh,
something's wrong versus likethe law of rhythm is like nature
right, like there's nature isnot full blown all the time, and
(00:21):
it's the same way with business.
Welcome back to your money.
Your roles podcast with me,erin Gray.
I'm so glad you're here.
Today.
I am sharing an interview I didwith Jess Hershey, founder of
Mocha business services, wherewe dove deep into the emotional
side of entrepreneurship,especially around money.
(00:42):
You know we talked about thefinancial mindset it really
takes to run a business and howpressure and fear and even
feeling panic can shape the waythat we actually show up.
We also explored why slowingdown and really learning to
self-regulate during allfinancial seasons is so
important, plus how to build arelationship with money that's
(01:05):
truly aligned with who you areand how you want to live your
life.
We even got into how humandesign can bring clarity and
support as you navigate thesebig decisions in your life and
also in your business.
I know that there's so muchhere that will resonate with you
.
So let's dive in.
Jess Hershey (01:21):
I asked you to have this conversation with me
today because I am feeling ashift in the financial landscape
right now.
It's really been over the lastyear and a half I think really
early 2024, I started to seepeople feel more nervous about
money.
(01:41):
I think there's been a lot ofthings going on in the last year
and a half um, there and andand and just kind of continues
to be.
Now we're in the middle of taxseason right now as we're making
this, so there's that um itjust it feels like there's been
a lot on people's minds umaround money and I'm seeing more
nervousness to um to spend, um.
(02:07):
I'm seeing people nervous abouttheir businesses and kind of
what to do in order to stayfinancially stable and um, you
and I have talked about beforethat there are.
There are kind of cycles that wego through, like just in
general, seasonally.
There are um cycles where weit's a little bit slower in the
summer and it's a little bitslower around the holidays.
People are spending less inthose times and then January and
(02:30):
September, people are ready tospend all of the money, do all
of the things, and so there arecycles we go through naturally
and I feel like this is kind ofa bigger cycle that we've
entered in, where people areorienting a little bit
differently to their money,thinking about it differently,
and I'm picking up on on just alot of nervousness.
Um, so I thought it would begreat to have a conversation
(02:52):
with you about this, about thework that you do and and kind of
tying that in so um, to to openit up.
I'd love to hear you just kindof reflect on what I just said,
that I'm seeing in this lastlittle bit and what you're
seeing and how that's feeling toyou.
Erin Gray (03:08):
It's interesting that you said that, because when you
, what came to mind too was likeduring COVID, and you know,
like I think that there are.
I think that if you put on thebuyer's hat, I think as a buyer
we have become more informed.
No-transcript buyer's hat.
(03:51):
You know, it's like we're very,we're more um, not the word
decisive, but we're, we're moreparticular about who we invest
in or what we invest in, becausewe have been, some of us have
been, burned.
So I think that there's thatpart of it.
And then I think, from the partthat you're talking about with
the financial part, is like, Ithink there are seasons and I
(04:13):
think also too of is that alsojust coming up?
Because we already have thatfear within us.
So the point I was trying tomake with COVID is, for some
people that went through COVID,it was terrifying.
They didn't, you know, it wasalmost like a shutdown for them.
For some people it didn'treally impact them from a from a
(04:37):
fear-based place, and so I'mcurious if some of this is what
you're describing is, do wealready have that fear within us
and it's coming out becauseit's the circumstances
presenting itself, and so we're,we're getting shown where do
our really deep seated fearsalready lie and it's presenting
as money, but it's, you know,those deeper seated fears that
we have within us.
Jess Hershey (04:59):
I think that makes a lot of sense in the idea of
this, this, uh, the big stuffthat is happening right now
because, like I said, going backto the seasonal shifts, I feel
like I see every year peoplepanicking, and I experienced
this myself.
When things start to get alittle bit slower in the summer
and the winter, you're like, ohmy gosh, do I need to do
something different?
Like, is it me?
(05:20):
Is it what's happening, youknow?
And so I think it is reallyeasy for those types of things
to surface because they'realready existing, because
there's something else therethat needs to be examined, which
is, which is, the work that youdo.
So this is, this is great.
Erin Gray (05:36):
I think also too, like the law of rhythm, I think,
in business.
I don't know where it came from, where it got started, where we
bought into, like businesses,just like this in, you know, in
the construction business, wehad ebbs and flows, right, like
that's just part of it.
And in any business you haveebbs and flows.
And I think what happens is wefreak out when we are in that
(05:56):
trough, right, but we're, we'renot thinking like we pay
attention to the highs, but thenwhen, when, when we're in the
trough, we're like we payattention to the highs, but then
when, when, when we're in thetrough, we're like, oh my gosh,
something's wrong.
Versus like the law of rhythm islike nature, right, like
there's.
Nature is not full blown all thetime.
And it's the same way withbusiness.
And I think, if we don't look atit from that perspective and we
(06:16):
think like we should always begrowing, growing, growing, it's
like, but where do we actuallyeither, you know, have some even
out or even some even, actually, either you know, have some
even out or even some, even ifyou're in a troughs, how is that
actually helpful to you?
How is that allowing you morespace to figure out what you do
want what is working, what isn'tworking, you know, if you're
always on this upward trajectoryand you're going 90 miles an
(06:37):
hour, where are you giving yourspace, self, the space, your
business, the space you know?
Just really, I don't think alot of us intentionally put in
time in our calendar to justponder and think, and so
sometimes that happens for us,for us to look and see what is
working, what isn't working,what do I want to continue to do
and re um recommit to thatfaith and that certainty that we
(07:04):
have in ourselves in what we'reyou know in our business, what
we're creating in the world, howwe're serving people.
Because if, every time,something outside of us, that is
such a reactionary way of beingright, if every, if something
changes outside of us, and thenwe think, oh, my goodness,
something's wrong.
We haven't developed the skillset within us to be like I am
certain, I am confident, I amresourceful, I will figure this
(07:27):
out.
You know, and sometimes itmight be you know some things we
do need to change.
But if we're in this rushed,panic state, how are we able to
look within and be like, hey,you know what?
I need to increase my certaintyin myself, I need to increase
my confidence, I need toincrease, you know, my belief
that what I'm, I'm on the rightpath and you know, maybe it is,
(07:48):
maybe I need to learn patience.
I mean, there's just so manylessons that we might you know,
that are coming up for us, thatwe need to learn, and I think
that we've been sold that, likebusiness is always up and it's I
don't know, if that's true.
Jess Hershey (08:02):
At least I haven't seen it.
Erin Gray (08:04):
You know, that has been my experience.
Jess Hershey (08:06):
Yes, yeah, yes, I agree, I think it can be such a
such a gift to have time, to beable to to reflect and to to
spend time being a little bitslower sometimes, and I'll feel
that way sometimes when I willget sick, if I am, if I am
pushing too hard and I catchsomething and I'm like, okay, I
(08:28):
need to just sit here andreflect for a little while.
I think there's definitelyseasons for that, because you
reflect and you, you get tolearn things that then, when
you're feeling better or whenthings are picking up again, you
get to kind of take andimplement, which is great, um,
but if, in those troughs thatyou're talking about, we are
just in a complete panic andrunning around in circles, then
(08:51):
it's not going to be a good useof time for anything Like when,
when things do pick up again, um, we're going to be recovering
because we were running aroundin circles, and so being able to
be in a place where we can, um,have the wisdom to know that
there are cycles, that we'regoing to go through, that there
are ups and downs, and beingable to plan for that and have
(09:13):
peace with that and be presentwith that, feels like a really
big thing.
So I want to talk a little bitabout some of the running around
in circles, some of the thingsthat happen when people are in
this fear-based headspace, andthen go into talking a little
bit about what we can do aboutit instead.
So some of the things that Isee, and I definitely have
(09:38):
experienced on my own when I getin a place of being under
financial pressure, is this kindof like desperation that comes
in, particularly with sales andmarketing, and so we've all kind
of seen like this aggressivemarketing technique or you know,
when you you can just tell youcan sense that someone has this
(09:59):
like I need to close the sale,and the feeling you get when you
feel that from somebody else'syeah.
Erin Gray (10:07):
How do I run faster?
Jess Hershey (10:12):
Yeah, so.
So, uh, tell me a little bitabout your, your thoughts and
experience with that.
Erin Gray (10:17):
Yeah, I think.
I mean I'm sure that I wasprobably there when I first
started my coaching practicebecause I was building it from.
You know, looking back now, Iwas building it from a place of
fear.
Right, I was there.
Probably was some part of methat was trying to build it to
prove to my dad you know what Ican create my own.
You know business Like I.
You know there was that wholething of like I don't want to
(10:37):
buy your business, I don't wantto do that, and so that whole,
you know when in the beginning Iprobably was very much in a
fear-based place, like, oh, Ihave to replace my income and I
can't use any of our savings andI have to hurry and hurry and
pressure, you know, and so we'veall been there, right, and we
know.
Here's the thing is you know,when you are there, because how
you feel in your body, and sothis is what some of the work
(10:59):
that I do is like really slowingdown and getting connected,
because when you are in thatplace, you know really there's
all kinds of emotions, butreally there's like love and
there's fear, like if we justreally boil it down to those two
emotions.
So when you are in fear, you'rein a very like what you're
saying, that like I call it liketaking energy.
Like you want them to buysomething because you need
(11:20):
something right, versus whenyou're in love and sufficiency
and like, listen, I have a greatproduct and I also understand.
If you don't want to buy it,that's okay.
Like there's someone else thatwill, that's very giving energy.
And I think you have to slowdown to decipher where you in.
And if we are constantly likebecause the body is like this is
(11:42):
this is life or death, rightnow, you need to hurry up, right
, that's what it feels like, atleast in my body.
So, the more that we can getpracticed at feeling that I mean
, I just felt it this morning.
I was like, ooh, what ishappening here?
And I was like, hang on asecond and I just allowed myself
and I did a little bit ofjournaling and I'm like, oh,
okay, this is just what the bodylikes to do.
(12:03):
When you've had so much ease andcalm, it's almost like a window
of tolerance where it justserves up that like, hey, fear,
you haven't felt fear in a while.
Like you need to feel fearright now.
And so, recognizing thatsometimes, like our bodies are
used to feeling some of thoselower vibration emotions, like
fear, you know.
(12:23):
And so when you're in it,really, I say like getting to
the point of like what I callclean energy, of like I am here
to serve you, I am here to offermy solution and if you want it,
great I would.
I think it's an amazing choiceif you take it, and if you don't
, that's okay too.
And I think, when we come fromthat fear-based place, we're
(12:43):
like we need you to say yes,because I need this Right and
this comes with.
It's like anything else.
It's a skill set that wepractice and we see like, ooh,
am I in?
What energy am I in when I'mtalking to someone?
Jess Hershey (12:59):
Yeah, I'm.
I'm like feeling myself takedeep breaths as you're talking
about slowing down.
I'm like feeling myself takedeep breaths as you're talking
about slowing down.
It's just.
It's so nice to have somebodyelse say it to you, but I feel
like doing one of the bestthings you can do for yourself.
I think one of the best thingsI've done for myself is teaching
myself to have, like the toolsand the recognition to stop,
(13:22):
like just, even if I can't fixit right away, I can't change my
mindset right away, how do Istop and slow down?
And I was just listening to oneof your podcast episodes about
the questions that you askyourself to get clear on your
money blocks, and I thinkquestions are my favorite tool.
If I can have a question orthree questions, like you had in
(13:43):
this instance where, um, when Ifeel myself feeling panic, that
triggers me to ask a questionand then I have to sit and think
about it and it makes me slowdown enough to become a little
more aware of what's going onwith me and then maybe look at
changing it.
Erin Gray (14:00):
Yeah, I think you know, like you're saying, what
are your go-to tools in yourtoolkit?
Because when you're in thatstate, you're not necessarily
thinking, because you literallyare in fight, flight, freeze or
fawn right, like we we wouldn'tterm it as that way, but that's
what the body is doing, right.
And so when you have this,these practices in place, like
(14:21):
for me, like you were saying,like, okay, I returned back to
my breath, or I'll go put myfeet outside, you know, or I'll
just go for a walk and move someof that energy, like you said,
ask some of those questions,like really getting clear.
So like what are a couple ofthings that you can, each of us,
which they're going to bedifferent right, things that you
can, each of us, which they'regoing to be different, right?
But what are those couple ofthings that we can always go
back to our toolkit when we'refeeling this way, to to calm our
(14:45):
nervous system and to tell us Imean my degree teacher, I love
her.
She she'll say things likeyou're okay, you're okay, you
can do this Right.
And it's like that's what wehave to tell ourselves.
Right, like this morning I waslike it's okay.
I've felt this before I canfeel any emotion.
I know what this feels likeit's okay, aaron, you're, you
know, and it's it's like whatyou would do to a five-year-old,
(15:08):
but literally like that's whatwe need in that moment, like
it's okay, right In this momentI am okay and and I know it
doesn't feel like that in thebody.
But it's one of those thingsthat the more that it happens,
the more that we see, oh, we cancalm ourself, we can soothe
ourselves.
Then we can come out of thatfight flight freeze and we can
actually think from a creativeplace, because nothing happens.
You cannot think creativelywhen you are in, you know, fight
(15:31):
flight freeze, stressed panic,like no good ideas come from
that.
Jess Hershey (15:35):
Yep, exactly, which brings me to the next
thing I was going to say that Isee a lot when people are in
this state is quickly movingfrom one thing to the next.
So what I'm doing must not beworking.
You don't necessarily know that, you don't necessarily even
think about that, you're justjumping to.
(15:55):
I'm going to try this, I'mgoing to try this, I'm going to
try this.
Suddenly, your audience has noidea what you do.
You're there, yanked all overthe place with everything, and
then nothing that you're puttingout there is actually solid, is
actually aligned.
It's maybe based on kind ofthose best practice tips that
(16:15):
you hear that maybe aren't a waythat you would want to be
markets to.
There's just a lot of um.
It's really easy to get pulledinto those things.
I can't.
I mean I don't know how manytimes in my business that I was
like, oh, I should do thisbecause it feels like a solution
to you, and when you actuallythink about it and sit with it
and feel it doesn't feel like analigned solution.
It's a decision made out ofthat, that panic, um, and that
(16:38):
financial pressure, um.
So, yes, tying back intoeverything you're talking about
with that, uh, when you'rerunning and and making those
decisions quickly there.
There's no actual likecreativity or groundedness in
those decisions.
You have to stop first and makea decision from that place,
even though it feels like you'regoing against everything your
body is telling you to do inthat moment.
Erin Gray (17:00):
And I mean I know people listening to this might
be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, butgive me, like, the actual
strategies and the practicaltools.
Okay, and I will say to thatperson cause I used to be this
person and I still show upsometimes I'm like hang on, a
second, Erin, is this is thepractical strategy, this is the
actual tool.
Right, this is the quick threesteps.
(17:21):
This is the quick, you knowfast money making thing.
This is the stuff.
Right, it's not sexy, it's not.
You know it's not fun to be likeyou know I'm sweating or I have
these rashes or you know I'vebeen on the toilet or whatever
it is, because you're actuallyfeeling and processing emotions
and you're going through thingsthat you have suppressed and
repressed for so long.
But here's what I will say isthat when you do this work,
(17:43):
because you're going to takeyourself wherever you go, so
whatever you're making right now, you're going to just amplify
that 10 exit, 100 exit, whatever, Right.
And so do you actually want totake who you are as a person
right now as you grow yourbusiness, or do you want to slow
down and develop the skill setso that when this stuff does
happen and it will when you're10 X, a hundred X, you have the
(18:06):
skill set and the tools to comeback to be like okay, Right,
Because how we build and what we, who we are, we're going to
build, that we think like we'regoing to get to some magic
number and it's all going to goaway.
It's like it's never going togo away, Right?
And the more that we can leaninto that like I used to get.
So I remember we were stillliving in Texas and it was maybe
2021.
(18:27):
And I remember turning to myhusband and be like I am so
tired of this money thing, likeI just want to be over it
already.
You know, almost like thisfrustration and it's like at
that point I realized like okay,what if, aaron, you never, you
never are?
What if it's always like, whatif that is what your soul came
here to actually do?
And every level you're going tofeel it again and you're going
(18:47):
to transcend it and like easinginto that versus like I hurry up
, I want this to go away, fixthis really quick, so I don't
have to feel this anymore.
Jess Hershey (18:57):
Yeah, that's great , um, so let's talk about a
little bit more of like what,what this means we slow down, um
.
How can we put some a differenttype of relationship with money
in place so that we can not bethrown off so much when these
(19:19):
things come up?
So, staying grounded, buildinga better relationship with money
is something that you talkabout a lot, and I love the idea
, even alone, of building arelationship with money is just
something that wasn't ever on myradar growing up.
That was not something that Iever heard.
Like money was this thing thatI had to make.
(19:41):
I had to achieve.
It was this you know constantpressure, but having a
relationship with money makesyou kind of stop and be like huh
, like what, what, what, how doI do that?
Um, and so I want to talk alittle bit about, um kind of
some of the work you do withhelping people build a
relationship with money.
Um, and how you know theimportance of stopping and
(20:04):
reflecting and getting to knowyourself can help you show up
for that relationship in a waythat is going to be successful.
Erin Gray (20:12):
Yeah, I think every everything right Is is our
relationship.
It's literally our perception,our thoughts, our feelings about
our spouse, me and you.
Outside money, you knowbusiness, all of these things.
So, and what I have found isthat our relationship with money
is very similar to what wethink about ourselves.
(20:34):
And so what I came to realizewas, you know, four or five
years ago, it was very much notenough.
It was all rooted in inadequacy, unworthiness, undeservedness,
and that's what I thought aboutmy money and that's what I
thought about myself helpingpeople.
(20:55):
I think the first step is alwaysawareness.
Like, actually write down whatdo you think about money when I
say you know your bank accountis zero or your bank account is
negative, what do you feel inyour body?
When I say you have $500,000 inyour account, what do you feel
in your body?
And if you are like vacillating, like oh, it feels really good
(21:17):
and oh, it doesn't Right, thatthat's an invitation for us to
be like oh, how are we dependingour feelings based on some
external thing outside of us,right?
And so I always say start withlike what is your relationship
Like?
If I were to ask you, you know,if your kid were to come to you
.
Is there a certain level thatthere's like, ooh, that feels
(21:38):
too much.
What is your language about?
Like, oh, that's expensive, orI can't afford that, or I can't
invest in myself.
Or just recognizing what is thelanguage that you're currently
using when you talk about money?
And then, from there, how doyou actually want to be in a
relationship with money?
Like I use my husband as anexample because I feel like we
(22:02):
have a really groundedrelationship.
I don't.
There's certainty there,there's trust there.
Like I'm not sitting over there, being like is he going to
cheat on me?
Is he going to come home?
Is he going to be there for metoday?
Like when you, when you say itlike that from a spouse
relationship, like that's a lotof times what we think about
money, are you going to be there?
You know like well, you knowlike we don't trust it.
We don't trust it.
(22:22):
Like, are you coming?
Are you coming?
Are you coming?
It's kind of like the samething that we were with cells,
right, it's like that energy andso we're blocking it when we're
from that place.
Versus like money loves tosupport us, right, money loves
to be with us, it wants to betaken care of Like I think money
is masculine and it's feminine,right.
Like it loves to flow to us, itloves to give us what we want,
(22:43):
which is very feminine and Ithink it's very masculine.
Like it loves to provide for us.
It loves to you, know, and sowhat?
How do you want to be withmoney?
And I don't think I mean thisis not taught in schools.
This is not taught, like noneof my finance classes were like.
So let's talk about yourrelationship with money.
You know it's very what I call3d.
(23:03):
You know very much of like thisis business, this is how
accounting works, this is howinvestments work, right, but
like our relationship with it isreally what matters.
If it stays around, if we growit, if it, you know, expands, or
if it comes to us quickly or itleaves quickly.
Like that is all based on howwe feel about money.
Jess Hershey (23:27):
Absolutely.
Now tell me a little bit abouthow um human design plays into
this as a tool, cause you have afour part video workshop series
that um walks people throughfinancial ease with human design
, and I know you use that as atool for self-identity so that
you can be in that relationship.
(23:48):
So tell me a little bit moreabout that.
Erin Gray (23:50):
Yeah, I think there's a couple of things.
I learned that you makedecisions from your head,
growing up, very pros and conslist and things of that sort.
So, first and foremost is likehelping people tap back into
their intuition and using yourdecision-making style to that,
to trust that, because we havebeen so conditioned to like what
(24:13):
are the pros and cons and, youknow, does that sound like good
financial advice?
And so we've been veryconditioned to be what I call in
our head, versus actuallytrusting.
Here you go back to trust,right, trusting our bodies,
trusting whatever you believe inGod, spirit, source, divine,
you know, universal intelligence, like there's something that's
bigger than us, that we areco-creating with, and like are
(24:35):
we tapping into that or are wethinking that we're doing this
all on our own?
So, first and foremost isunderstanding like how do you
make decisions and also how doyou run a business?
Like there's five types and Ithink about like the manifestor
type is very much.
I think the way that thebusiness world has been um is
(24:57):
very like you have an idea andyou go initiate and you just do
it Right, but the 91% of us arenot manifestors, right, like
we're very much so.
Like we respond to things, we,and so when I was trying to
build a business from that space, it felt like I was forcing
every single thing because I wasdoing it from, not not a
(25:19):
genuine place of how my designis.
So it's, it's thedecision-making, it's also
trusting your intuition, andthen I have, you know, kind of
broken down how, like eachcenter, how it applies to money,
like I think a lot of us aretrying to build our business
from lack from fear, fromfeeling unworthy, from feeling,
(25:41):
um, not lovable, and so we'retrying here to go back to that,
getting energy.
We're trying to have ourbusiness fill our cup Right, but
if our cup has a hole in it,like there's nothing that we can
, there's no amount that we cando right To fill that up.
And so really seeing like how,has, how has your chart played
(26:01):
into your relationship withmoney, and then how to start
like really I call it likesettling back into yourself and
trusting yourself.
And you know, like settlingback into yourself and trusting
yourself, and you know, learningto love yourself, changing your
self-concept.
You know, we, we came herefully, abundant love and light,
and then somewhere along the way, right, someone told us or said
(26:22):
something and then we thoughtotherwise.
So really returning what I calllike back home to ourselves and
really building a business froma place of wholeness, um, of
complete, like completeness.
You know, it's like an additionto versus, like I hope if I get
this then I'm going to feelsuccessful.
If I get to this number, thenI'm going to feel X, y, z,
versus like generating thatwithin us and so kind of showing
(26:46):
in, in using your design to, toshow you like how to navigate
that.
Jess Hershey (26:51):
That's so good.
Yeah, going back to yourrelationship parallel with you
and your husband or any, youknow our relationship with our
spouse, significant other,friend, even, um, I.
Something I've experienced inmy life is that if you're, if
you're not doing your work toyou know, not have a hole in
your cup to make sure you'retaken care of and you understand
(27:12):
and know and love yourself.
It's really hard to loveanother person, um, completely,
and you can feel wanting to havethat person get it from that
person instead of getting itfrom yourself.
And I feel like a lot of us canrelate to that type of
experience and this.
Putting this back on money Ifwe don't take the time to heal
(27:34):
the way that we feel about money, to write the story that we
want to have, then to be able tohave a relationship with it,
isn't going to be possible.
So not only has have we neverheard that term and it's never
occurred to us.
It's not possible unless you dothat work first and really
understand yourself.
Does that feel accurate to you?
Erin Gray (27:50):
Yeah, totally.
I mean it's like we're tryingto change the external to get us
to feel on the internal.
But that's not the way.
Like we live in a cause andeffect world, right.
Like we have to feel this wayfirst and then we see it in the
external.
And I think so many of us havebeen taught, I mean like the
whole.
I mean we don't have cable.
So when we go like to differenthotels like my kid loves to
(28:11):
watch cable because we have nocable and there's no like ads or
whatever, but you know, there'salways some type of commercial
of like, oh, this is what youneed, this is what you need.
Like we're taught in the worldright.
Like that there's somethingwrong with you and you need this
thing to feel this way, versusno, you feel this first and then
(28:31):
it and it shows up on theoutside.
And with money I think so oftenI mean it'll make me cry, cause
I'm just like how many of usand this was for me for sure of
like I was so hard on money,like I can't imagine if that was
a person, if that was mydaughter, of what I used to say
to money like you're not goodenough, it's never enough.
You know what I used to say tomoney like you're not good
(28:53):
enough, it's never enough, youknow, and just that feeling of
like yeah, inadequacy and notenoughness.
Well, why would money want tohang out with us?
You?
know why would money want tolike.
It's almost like verbal abuse,like why do I want to go and be
in a relationship with someone's?
Like you're not enough.
Here you are again not here.
You know it.
Just it doesn't feel good.
And and money, like money, wantsto have fun.
(29:14):
We money wants to support us,Money wants us to trust it.
You know and like and I dothink that I know I sound, I'm
like I'm talking out both sidesof my ass Like I think that we
will constantly up-level right,so the healing's never done and
also we can change a belief veryquickly too.
You know, yeah, so likeallowing for both of those parts
(29:35):
, um, but we could just decide.
You know, like, I want to havefun with money.
What would that look like inorder for me to have fun with
money?
And it doesn't mean you need,you need to go use all your
savings, but maybe that's likehey, money, you want to go on a
date, you want to go.
You know, like what do you liketo do something small that
maybe isn't so outside yourwindow of tolerance.
Like you know what, likeyesterday I was like you know
what?
I'm going to go buy some nailpolish.
(29:55):
I'm going to go get a littlelatte.
You know, like I'm just goingto go have some fun with money,
you know.
So it's just like how often dowe practice having fun with
money versus it's just a seriousthing that we have to have and
it's, you know, that attachmentthat we have to it and it feels
like a lot of pressure.
Jess Hershey (30:12):
You know Absolutely, yeah, yeah.
I think that's all really greatthe idea of continuing to work
towards this mindset, that thatyou can both make a quick
decision that can help you rightaway From listening to this
(30:32):
video.
You can make a decision thatI'm going to go on a date with
money and have some fun, andthat can make a big impact.
But it is something we're goingto learn again and again and
we're going to go through thesecycles.
So one of the things the lastthing I wanted to kind of talk
about is another great tool, Ithink, for me in keeping that
awareness and bringing myselfback to this again and again so
(30:53):
that I can learn it a little bitmore and get a little bit
better and practice these toolsis other people.
Um, I think having other peoplearound, it's really easy as an
entrepreneur to kind of siloyourself in and, um, be doing
something for a long time andget really far down the road
without anybody saying, hey,have you thought about it this
(31:14):
way?
Or, you know, like getting youout of your perspective.
And I am so fortunate to havegreat humans in my life that ask
me how I'm doing that, um, askme what's going on with my
business and my life and I getto reflect and I find myself
reflecting in answering that inways that I I haven't on my own.
(31:34):
You know that people bring itout of you and then,
additionally, when you have acommunity of entrepreneurs,
especially, and you're feelingtight on money, instead of
panicking and saying what I'mdoing must not be working, you
can say are you guys feelingthis?
And they can go oh yeah, thingsare slow right now.
It's not just you and you getto skip that whole panic phase.
So this is, I think, a lot ofthe value for me of building
(31:57):
this MOCA community and you haveyour own community as well that
you focus on money mindset tips.
Is that right?
Erin Gray (32:04):
Yeah, I recently started.
You know I'm not like a hugesocial media person, but I'm
like where can I have acommunity for women to like,
come to share?
Like a safe space, you know, asafe space to share and talk
about what they're experiencingwith money and you know, having,
you know me asking, invitingquestions for them to ponder,
(32:25):
but a place where we can say youknow what?
Because every woman I have evertalked to and I mean men, men
show it differently, but womenit's like they think that
they're the only ones that gothrough this, right, and so when
I say you know what, yourresponse is, just like you know
someone else I just talked to,you can literally see their
shoulders relax.
(32:45):
Like we think that we're doinglike what you're saying.
We're doing this by ourselves,because we think that there's
something wrong with us, right,but this isn't something.
I think maybe it's changingsomewhat in the spiritual world
but like this is something thatwe weren't taught growing up,
right, and you don't get inbusiness school.
(33:05):
And so if you don't get itthere, well, where are you
supposed to get it and connectwith?
Get it there, well, where areyou supposed to get it and
connect with?
And I think for a lot of likemasterminds you have such a
sometimes it can feel like anego place where it doesn't
necessarily feel safe to be likeyeah, I'm having a really hard
time right now, you know likewhere you just get to let the
(33:26):
guard down and you get to sharesome of that stuff.
I think it depends on on themastermind that you're in.
But I think that it's reallyimportant to have community Like
as humans, right?
We want connection, we want toconnect and relate to other
humans and if you're a one man,I mean I recognize it in myself.
(33:47):
When I'm doing too much work bymyself, I'm like I need to be
with the humans, you know.
And so recognizing that withinyourself and for some of us it's
going to be different levels,right, I mean, there are some
people that want to be with themall the time, there's some that
come in and out, whatever, butjust the community is such an
important piece because I thinkwhen you, first of all, you have
(34:11):
someone that can see you in adifferent light than how you see
yourself, right, Like when youhear the stories in your brain
and you're, you know, going downthat rabbit hole like you're
talking about, I can be likeJess, what are you talking about
?
You're amazing.
You know what I mean Like, but,but really, and not not just
fill you up with, but likeliterally, like you see someone
in a different view than howthey see themselves.
(34:33):
They, you see them in theirhigher self, and I think that
that really matters and I thinkit really helps.
Like you said, it gets you outso much quicker.
Um, because you have someone toand you also have people to
celebrate with you.
Like it's fun to celebrate,like you know, energetically,
like the more people that arecelebrating someone's success,
(34:54):
like that is a reflection thatthat's there for you too, and so
having that, I think, is anamazing thing.
Jess Hershey (35:00):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I think it's just a needfor being a human in general,
but I especially love the ideaof a community centered around.
The idea of a communitycentered around come talk about
money, because even in thereally comfortable groups and
connections that we findourselves in, money feels like
(35:20):
this topic that we just we don'ttalk about.
We might talk about some of thepain points of I think I need
to work on my sales call.
What someone's really sayingthere is I'm struggling with
money, but it's really hard tosay I am struggling with money.
Um, so having a safe place todo that feels very powerful.
Yeah, that's great.
Thank you for the wonderfulconversation on all of these
(35:42):
great resources and tips and itwas a pleasure to chat with you
today.
Erin Gray (35:46):
Thanks for having me, jess, always a pleasure.
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