Ep. 72 Estate Planning Tailored to Your Family's Dynamics (with special guest Wendi Lester Efflandt)

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Join me as I sit down with Wendi Lester Efflandt, a seasoned estate attorney from Texas, who shares her expertise on crafting tailored estate plans that truly resonate with personal and familial goals. Wendi explains why a one-size-fits-all approach won't suffice. Together, we explore the necessity of choosing the right legal instruments—wills, trusts, powers of attorney, etc. that are best suited for individual circumstances such as family size and the ages of any children involved.

In our discussion, we delve into the subtle complexities of powers of attorney, shedding light on why the right person for medical decisions might differ from the one handling financial matters. Wendi highlights the importance of relying on local experts familiar with state-specific laws to avoid common pitfalls, such as improperly witnessed documents and errors from online legal templates. We emphasize the importance of updated documents and caution against the reliance on AI for estate planning, advocating instead for professional guidance to ensure clarity and prevent financial mishaps.

Our conversation also uncovers the often-overlooked task of organizing crucial personal information to ease the burden on loved ones. Wendi and I discuss practical steps to safeguard vital data, from creating a comprehensive "location of important documents" worksheet to simplifying financial affairs. This episode empowers you to tackle estate planning with confidence, offering insights that underscore estate planning as not just a necessity, but a thoughtful gesture for those you leave behind. Tune in for a wealth of knowledge that will equip you to navigate the estate planning process with assurance and precision.

If you would like to learn more about Wendi, you can connect with her via her website here (https://www.heritagelawtexas.com). 

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Episode Transcript

Erin Gray (00:00):
You're listening to generate a life Well-lived
podcast.
I'm your friend and confidant,erin gray.
On this podcast, we willexplore all things money,
business and self-development,including human design.
I hope you enjoy the journeywhere I share everything that I
know and am continuing to learna long way as I honor my heart's
desires while inspiring andencouraging you to do the same.

(00:20):
Hi, how are you?
So?
On today's podcast, I brought onWendi Lester-Efflandt and she
is an estate attorney and sheactually helped my family
administer my grandfather'sestate.
So grateful for her and thetime that she worked with his
case and I had worked with mygrandfather before to set up all

(00:44):
of his estate planning, workingwith another attorney.
Just so grateful that Wendy wasable to support our family
during this process.
She has a practice in Texas andwe are going to dive into so
many things.
Before I do, I just want to saythat, just like any other guest
that I bring on that hasexpertise and years of knowledge

(01:09):
in their craft, I always wantto drive home to each of you
that go, do your own research.
We are not giving you advice.
We're discussing topics that Ihave experienced clients telling
me you know that they aren'taware of or you know, the common
theme is I don't know what Idon't know, so I always want to

(01:30):
empower you, and that means youdoing your own research, you
hiring someone that is a goodfit for you, and I bring on
amazing guests so that they canshare their knowledge and, at
the end of the day, you makingsure that you've done your
research, you've vetted thepeople that you work with so

(01:53):
that they can support you in thearea that you need support in.
In this episode, we're going todive into making sure that you
work with an attorney that youhave property in, and explaining
and diving into you know, powerof attorney, medical power of
attorney, the difference betweena will and a trust, updating
your estate documents and whatto do with the old ones, and so

(02:15):
much more.
I'm so grateful for thisconversation because I learned a
lot while having thisconversation with Wendy and I
hope that you do as well.
So let's dive in.
Thanks, wendy, for coming onand sharing your time.
You're welcome, good to be here.
So tell us just a little bitabout, like, what does an estate
planning attorney do and, kindof, if you want, how did you get

(02:39):
started, and things of thatsort.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (02:42):
So essentially, I think that the
job of an estate planningattorney is really to meet with
the client I mean, nowadays wehave ways to phone and virtual
and things like that but reallyto get to know their client so
that they can understand A.
What are the family dynamics ofthat client?
What are the assets of thatclient?
What other issues maybe do theyhave in their backgrounds, that

(03:06):
things that are important tothem?
For some people, you know,charitable, you know
contributions are important.
For some people, protecting alegacy for their children, you
know, is important.
So I think the job of an estateplanning attorney is to get to
know their clients and then indoing that, figure out there's

(03:26):
no one set of documents that isgoing to be a fix-all or the
proper set of documents for anyparticular client.
And so some people and we'lltalk about this more, I'm sure,
later, but might be well-servedby a will, somebody else might
be well-served by a trust.
Families that have only onechild may be able to avail

(03:47):
themselves of some differenttypes of documents.
That people that have sixchildren, that might not be the
best fit for them.
People that have young childrenobviously there may be needs to,
you know, consider what kind oftrust will take care of their
assets until they're old enoughto manage them themselves,
Whereas if all of your childrenare over 40, then that might be,

(04:09):
you know, a different type ofdocument for you.
So I think overall, the job ofthe estate planning attorney is
going to be to get to know theclient, get to know the fact
pattern and their background andthen for them help to create a
set of documents that is goingto meet all of their goals in
the future and protect thefamily, have those specific like

(04:32):
permissions lips in place forpeople to be able to help them
if they are incapacitated,unconscious things like that.
So I think that's the overallgoal of the estate planning, you
know, consultation relationship, you know, with the attorney.

Erin Gray (04:47):
Yeah, and it's really like it's like anything right.
It's like digging, findingabout out about your client,
understanding them and likehelping them specific.
I think sometimes a lot of ifwe aren't aware of what you guys
do.
Sometimes we look at either ourfriends or family members and
we're like you know, we almostlike draw from oh, this is what

(05:09):
you did, this is what I need,versus what do I want specific
for me and my family.
And then you know doing that.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (05:15):
Yeah, I can't tell you how many times
someone will come in and they'llsay you know, my, my friend,
you know, got this transfer ondeath deed and this is a great
idea for me and I need it.
And then I say to them you havefour children.
They're all under the age of 12.
That would be the most horriblething you could possibly think
of doing.
Or they've already gotten thatdocument off of the Internet and

(05:37):
they've completed it andthey've filed it with the deed
records.
So those are the types ofthings.
I think that we are able toresearch so many things on the
internet and I think that's agreat way to get started to
think about what your decisionsmight be.
But then to turn around andthen go to a professional, it's
just like maybe I don't feelwell and I'm looking up what the

(05:59):
symptoms could mean, but Idon't use Google as a substitute
for going for a consultationwith my doctor, you know, or a
therapist or whatever type ofattention that I might need, my
provider.
I don't just use the internet,you know, yeah totally.

Erin Gray (06:14):
It's like it's good for knowledge, good for maybe
pondering, thinking, but then,like you say, like, take those
questions.
So do you have on your websiteor like what?
Where would you suggest forpeople to like?
Because I think a lot of timestoo, people come in and they're
like I don't know what I don'tknow, and so it's almost like
this and emotionally right, likeit's an overwhelming thing of

(06:35):
like where do we even begin andstart?
And so what do you typicallysuggest for clients, if they are
like at the beginning stages,um, as to like what you know, if
they are like at the beginningstages, as to like what you know
, where do you even go forinformation and things of that
sort?

Wendi Lester Efflandt (06:48):
So we definitely on our website, which
is the heritage law txcom.
So we are based in Texas and wedo have just this like an
overall kind of estate planningbrochure which would just go
over some of the generaldocuments that a lot of people
are going to need in Texas.
You know, obviously indifferent states there's going

(07:09):
to be different documents thatare different names.
Sometimes they are named alittle bit different in
different states.
But also something that I findthat people don't really
necessarily do before they comein and that would be really
helpful, is to have a list ofwhat your assets are.
I mean, they come in and likewell, we have that one account
over there, do we still havethat retirement account?

(07:29):
And then when we moved here, wequit going to that bank and so
you know, really you knowwhether it's you're an
individual and you're handlingall your own finances or you're
a couple really going over.
You know what assets do we have.
Do we both even know what theyare if we're two of us, because
somebody might have an IRA overhere and somebody might have a

(07:51):
401k over there, you know.
So that's a big thing to justdo before you even get to the
attorney and then also justhaving a complete listing of all
of your children's you know,names, dates of birth, addresses
, phone numbers if they're, youknow, adults, that kind of thing
.
But then, like I said, on ourwebsite there'll be some general
information to at least sort ofsay what are some options that

(08:13):
we have.
And then, of course, as youcome in to meet with an attorney
, they should be going over withyou all the different options
of things that you can useduring your lifetime.
So, powers of attorney, thoseare our permission slips.
If I become unconscious and Ineed a medical decision made for
me, most states are going tosay no one's allowed to do that

(08:36):
until you have that permissionslip in place or that power of
attorney in place appointingthat person.
If I'm older and I have anadult child, who's to say
whether it's supposed to be myspouse, who may or may not be
the parent of that adult child,or it's supposed to be my adult
child, who's going to be incharge of making my medical

(08:56):
decision?
So I want to make sure you knowthat there's no confusion.
Here's person number one,here's potentially, you know, an
alternate for that, um, and sothere's, you know, powers of
attorney that are for medical.
There's going to be, on almostevery state, powers of attorney
that are for more of ourbusiness or financial affairs.
So, again, if I either needassistance or I am completely

(09:20):
incapacitated, somebody stillhas to file my tax returns,
somebody still has to pay myutility bill that makes sure
that my house, you know, isstill got, you know, electric,
air, all those kinds of things,water.
So I want to not have that be aguessing game and I definitely
don't want to have that bedictated by a court, because

(09:41):
without those permissions slipsin place, then the people that
care about you are going to haveto go to court and file for a
guardianship to be put in chargeof you and spend thousands of
dollars doing that in the states, post bonds, potentially
appraise all your property, fileyearly accountings for you.
So, as well as I mean,obviously we want to talk about

(10:04):
what would happen to our assetsin the event of death, but we
also want to plan for incapacityor even brief incapacity during
lifetime.

Erin Gray (10:12):
Yeah, so um and sometimes those people aren't
the same people, right, like soyou could have a medical power
of attorney, right, and then youcould have a financial power of
attorney, um, because they, youknow that person doesn't want
to do the medical, or vice versa, or whatever, and so you know.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (10:29):
Yes, and that's even true for it, like if
it is a couple, for example,doing the planning as well, each
person is going to pick theirown people.
So most of the time with aspouse, I'm going to say my
number one decision maker, if Ican't do it for myself, might be
my spouse, but then myalternate might be my sister is
a nurse and I really trust her,you know, to make a medical
decision for me.

(10:49):
Well, my husband may say well,you know, his number two person
is, again, possibly his nephew,who is an EMT, and he wants that
person.
And then again you may havethat you know one relative who
you know they're the CPA or thefinancial planner, and so when
it comes to your in Texas, thestatutory durable power of

(11:10):
attorney, then I may want topick that person because I want
that person to be in charge ofmy finances, my more business
decisions, and they're more, youknow, geared toward or suited
toward being the power ofattorney for financial.
And I may want to pick somebodydifferent, like you said, for
medical, because everybody hasdifferent talents that we can,

(11:31):
you know, hopefully, borrow whenwe need to.

Erin Gray (11:34):
Yeah, so, in terms of you said that you're in Texas
and so as far as like hiring anattorney, obviously most of the
time, would you say that youprobably typically go to someone
local or someone you know thatsomeone has referred to you and
they're they are local.
But is it like, um, you knowCPAs don't have like they can be

(11:54):
, or like financial planners arelicensed in specific States?
Is that the same way that it isfor attorneys as well?

Wendi Lester Efflandt (12:01):
Yes, and so you would definitely want to
have an attorney in the statewhere you reside.
Something to also, though, beaware of is, if you own property
in multiple states, then thatmay be that I need to consult
with an attorney where mypotentially vacation property is

(12:25):
located in a different state,because those state laws, you
know, can be different state tostate.
So I get people coming in allthe time in Texas and they're
like, oh my gosh, I just I haveto have a living trust.
I've heard about how horribleprobate is and all these things,
and they're reading an articlefrom California, and so they've
gotten all up in, you know,terrified about, you know what's

(12:48):
going to happen to them, andyou know I'm able to say well,
the good news is you don't needto be that terrified.
You know Texas has a reallyeasy probate system if we ask
for that in your documents, andwe can still talk about a living
trust if that's still somethingthat's important to you.
But what you're reading issomething out of New York or
Florida or California, and sothat is why it's important to

(13:11):
not again.
Yes, you can do some researchon the internet, but first of
all make sure you're readingsomething from the state where
you live or own property is agood start, and then also
consulting with somebodylicensed in that particular
state where you live.
I like to have my final meetingwith my clients, potentially in

(13:33):
my office, if at all possible,because one of the things that
we also want to be reallycareful of.
You can have great documents,but if you don't witness and
notarize those documentscorrectly, I have had people and
I hate it, but the person who'sdone the documents has already
even passed and they bring themin.
They're like this is their will, see, it's notarized, and I say

(13:54):
, well, in Texas, it needs twowitnesses, that's only one
witness, a notary is one witnessand a really good will in Texas
is going to have two witnessesand a notary, and so they think
that they're holding in theirhand a will and they do not have
a will.
Wow, you know.
So that is again.
And even when people get alegal Zoom document and they're

(14:15):
like, well, it was a Texas, youknow legal Zoom document, and
then they had, you know, one ofthe beneficiaries be the witness
and now the gift to thatbeneficiary is void, yeah,
because that's not allowed, youknow.
So there are things that, eventhough you know you think you're
doing the right thing.

(14:35):
I always tell people you knowwhat I wouldn't you know if I
had some kind of criminal matterwhich I hope I never do, but I
wouldn't trust my freedom.
If I had some kind of criminalmatter which I hope I never do,
but I wouldn't trust my freedom,my you know potential, um, you
know future, to something I readon the internet, I would go get
a professional you know andhave them to help me get through
that situation, because that'snot something, um, that you know

(14:58):
I hope I ever have to do butthat I have any experience in.

Erin Gray (15:06):
Yeah, totally it's.
Uh, it's, it comes from agenuine place, I think.
Right, like we want to know, wewant to be informed, and also
there's so much information andmisinformation on the internet
that you know you already comein with an idea of what you
think you need to have orwhatever, versus like just
coming in with an open mind andbeing like this is our situation
, like just kind of giving youthe facts and then you get to be
like okay, based on this, thisis this and this and this is

(15:26):
what I would recommend, and thenthis is how we do this, and and
right.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (15:30):
Exactly, yeah, yeah.

Erin Gray (15:32):
So can we dive into a little bit about wills and
trust, cause you have madecomments about that, like not
everybody, because I do thinkyou know it's.
It kind of gets I don't know ifit's highlighted or you know
peace, it's kind of like notkeeping up with the Joneses, but
it's like, oh well, so-and-sohas a living trust, so I need
one.
You know, versus like whatactually are the two differences

(15:53):
?
And then why would someone wanta trust and why would someone
maybe not want one, or maybe notat this moment in time, but you
know, as they grow assets orevolve things of that sort.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (16:05):
So in order to really understand the
difference between sort of willsand trusts, we have to also
talk about the different typesof property that you would have
upon passing.
So when someone passes, wewould sort of delineate their
property as two different types.
One is what we're going to callnon-probate assets, meaning we
don't need a will, we don't needto talk to a court.

(16:26):
We don't need to talk to acourt, we don't need a document
that I wrote to deal with thatasset, versus a probate asset,
which means we're going to lookto some writing of mine or some
court or something to deal withthat asset.
So when I have a life insurancepolicy, if I pay $100 a month
to MetLife for 20 years and Ihave a $100,000 life insurance

(16:48):
policy, when I sign the form thebeneficiary designation form
for that policy, I have now madethat policy a non-probate asset
.
They don't care whether I havea will, they don't care whether
I have a trust.
They are going to follow thecontract that I made with that
company in order to distributethat asset upon my passing.

(17:08):
So we have a lot of things inalmost every state that you
could make into a non-propaidasset.
So if I go into the bank and Iopen a joint checking account
with my husband and we sign thesignature cards a certain way.
It'll say this is a jointaccount with right of
survivorship.
So you'll see sometimes JWROSon your bank statement.

(17:31):
So that means if one of uspasses, the other one just owns
that account.
They don't care if I have awill, they don't care if I have
a trust, they don't care what Ihave.
So what we are doing when weare writing a will is we are
saying what happens to mynon-probate asset, or, excuse me
, my probate assets, upon mypassing passage.
So things that are probateassets uh, cars, um houses,

(17:52):
household goods, bank accountsthat don't have a beneficiary,
an ira that doesn't have abeneficiary, an investment
account that doesn't have abeneficiary those are the kinds
of things that they're going tosay hey, what?
What did wendy say happens tothis when she passed?
So when we write a will inTexas, that will is a piece of

(18:12):
paper until it is approved bythe court, and so that word
probate is just really it's ascary word, but it really just
means approved.
It means the court has approvedthis piece of paper that I
brought to them and has said tothem to said to the world this
is a will and you know it's,it's, it's valid Right.

(18:34):
So when someone passes, the wayyou kind of get into probate is
it's like okay, grandma passed,she has an account with bank of
America, there's no beneficiary.
And I bring to bank of Americathis will and I say this is
grandma's will and it says I'mthe beneficiary and bank of
america.
They're like we don't want tobe responsible for knowing if
that thing is, you know paper,you know whatever is uh, altered

(18:57):
or you know, is it real?
Is it?
Does it meet the taxesrequirements?
Because bank of america is anational bank.
You could live in one of 50states and have you know bank of
america.
So the court says we file thatwill for probate for the court
to approve it and probate it,and then we take it to Bank of
America and then Bank of Americawill release that to the

(19:18):
executor named in the will.
So when I write a will I'mnominating my executor, but the
court is going to appoint myexecutor and so that is what we
do when we probate.
It's a very simplified version,but we're basically having to
go to court.
Typically you're going to haveto go to court.
In Texas we have a very easyprobate system called an

(19:42):
independent administration ofthe estate, if you ask for it in
the will.
So again, if I want to have awill, I want it to be written in
a way to avail myself of theeasiest process possible no
bonds, no appraisals.
I mean, whatever the house isworth on the open market is what
the house is worth on the openmarket.
I don't need to go pay a bunchof people to appraise.
That you know, and so that isjust something that we, you know

(20:07):
, want to make sure we're doing.
The will, so the trust, so thedifference between having a will
, which would be potentiallyneeding to be probated, and
having a trust.
So when I create a trust, myanalogy is that I sort of create
a container that is holding myproperty.
It's not being held in the nameof Wendy Lester Affluent, it's

(20:28):
being held in the name of theAffluent Family Trust or
whatever I might want to namethis trust.
So I use the analogy when I'mtalking to people of having a
wagon.
I have created this wagon andso instead of carrying my
property in Wendy's name, I'mgoing to create it, I'm going to
carry it in the Affluent wagon,and so when I write a trust
agreement, I am giving the rulesof what I want to have happen

(20:52):
in that wagon.
But then what I have to do is Ihave to actually put all my
property into the wagon, and soI have to transfer, like I have
to deed.
If I have a house, it needs tobe deeded to that trust.
If I have bank accounts, theyeither need to be titled in the
name of that trust or again abeneficiary designation to that
trust.
If I have bank accounts, theyeither need to be titled in the
name of that trust or, again, abeneficiary designation to that

(21:14):
wagon.
So then what happens is, as thetrustee of my trust, I've
appointed myself as the trustee.
I am the wagon puller, right.
So I'm in charge of that wagon.
I can put things in, takethings out, usually with a
revocable or living trust.
That's a term, you'll see.
It means I can change my mind,I can take things in, I can

(21:34):
change the terms of my agreementduring my lifetime.
It's very flexible, but at theend of the day, when Wendy
passes and she was the trusteeit really doesn't make any
difference, because everything'snot in Wendy's name, it's in
the name of the wagon and sothen a new trustee, which I've
appointed in my documents, stepsup and they become, you know,

(21:58):
the driver of that wagon andthen they can disperse, you know
, to my different beneficiariesthat I've designated in advance
in writing the property that wasin that wagon and so there
usually is not any kind of aprobate um, because I've taken
the property out of beingprobate assets by placing in a
trust.

Erin Gray (22:19):
So that's kind of the difference.
Do you find that people want tohave co-trustees of the trust,
like and that, and when I sayco-trustees, yes, not
necessarily upon when they'reliving, but like, okay, when,
when, the when I pass, then Iwant two people to to manage

(22:43):
this.
Whatever's left, you know,disperse it and things of that
sort, like you know well.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (22:49):
So I have people ask for that a lot and I
tell people, no, okay, that'swhat I'm saying, like, um, and
so they'll say, oh, my two kids,and I want them to do it
because I have to.
And so what?
I tell people when, in theworld of executor and trustee,
it's not an either, or it istypically a both, and so, um, if

(23:11):
you appoint two people asexecutor, oh, two people as
trustee, oh they, you know,first of all have to be
unanimous, so you better makesure that they are always going
to decide together, um, and notdisagree, which you know could
be a problem.
Um, number two, in the attorneyworld, I typically have to make
, almost, you know, two of.
They both have to.

(23:32):
They both have to hire the realestate agent.
If there's a house, they bothhave to go to the closing.
I mean, one of them may live inKansas and one of them may live
in Oklahoma, you know, orwherever.
So you know, you need to bepractical about who you're
picking, and I people are alwaystelling me oh, I, just, I have
to be fair and I have to speakwhatever.
And I'm like, choose youragents, uh, by their talents and

(23:55):
, honestly, by the time thatthey're acting.
You're probably not here anyway, so if they're mad about it,
they can just be mad about it,um.
But in an attorney situationit's also difficult because then
they're both hiring mepotentially.
Because then they're bothhiring me potentially, and if
one of them is calling to ask aquestion, I really need to be
conferencing in the other oneeven to have a simple

(24:19):
conversation, because I don'twant that executor calling the
other one saying, well, what theattorney told me and I'm having
this whole entire privateconversation with one executor
or trustee, whichever way you'vedone it, um, and not the other
one.
And so for an attorney it canalso be difficult, especially if
those two clients somehow don'tget along or disagree.

(24:41):
Yeah, I may even have to say Ican't represent either one of
you because there's a conflict,yeah.
So I recommend, of course, thatnow, with a husband and wife,
they will typically beco-trustees of their living
trust together.
But you guys are already in itfor the long haul and having to
make decisions together ifyou're married anyway.
So that's different.
But then, upon the death of thesurviving spouse, then I would

(25:03):
typically recommend just themost you know responsible and
trusted and financially mindedperson to be number one, and
then we can have alternates, andif that first person doesn't
want to do it or isn't, lifecircumstances are such that
they're not in a position to doit, they can certainly waive
their right, you know, to dothat.
So those are some options thatI do get all the a lot of people

(25:26):
.

Erin Gray (25:26):
I want to have all three of my kids be co-trustees
and I'm thinking this is a maybeit's a generational thing, but
that's what I have found too, islike a lot of the, you know, my
parents' generation is likewell, I want to be fair, like
that word of fair it's like fairdoesn't really exist, it's just
judgment.
You know, like somebody canthink that's totally fair and

(25:47):
someone else could think thatthat's not fair, you know.
And so that trying to beinclusive versus like, but what
is the most like, simplest leastyou know time, most effective
thing, and and like you say,like having one person, because,
yeah, sometimes it, it.
It doesn't necessarily always,and, you know, sometimes we

(26:09):
can't even agree on, like whereto go eat.
Now, you're trying to decideall of these, although, would
you say, though, yes, definitelyonly having one person, but
when you decide what you wantand how you want your assets to
be distributed, where would theconflict come in if you did have

(26:29):
a co-trustee or co-executor?

Wendi Lester Efflandt (26:33):
I think sometimes the conflict does come
in, just with what we call theadministration of the assets.
And so, you know, typicallythere's going to be a house that
someone owns and, like I said,one person wants to hire their
buddy who's a realtor over here,and the other person wants to
hire, you know, a different one,or we don't agree on the list
price, or one of them says youknow what, like let's do a quick

(26:56):
sale, let's lower this price,and the other one saying, well,
I don't want to lower the pricebecause we could get more, you
know.
So just there can be.
I mean, like, when should thehouse be sold?
Should the house be sold, youknow?
Or all kinds of other, whatattorney should we hire?
Like, if we need anadministration?
I mean, even to that extent,you know it's just there's lots

(27:18):
of different things that couldpotentially arise, you know,
like should we replace thecarpet before we put it on the
market, or just sell it as is,you know?
And so those are the kinds ofthings where if you pick
somebody that you trust to be,you know, honest and be
responsible, then let them dothat legwork and then let them

(27:43):
just divide the proceeds.
You know, when you get to thatpoint and I tell people when
they do hire me if they are theadministrator, executor or
trustee, I'm happy to copy your.
You know siblings on.
You know we want to provideinformation.
It's not a big secret.
So you know, the moreinformation that they provide,

(28:03):
you know, then that's helpful tothe others to know.
Oh, here's the process and thisis where we are.
And yep, we haven't.
You know whatever, we haven'tgone to court yet, or you know
that kind of thing.
So I always like to provide alot of information, but it's not
a three-way jointdecision-making.

Erin Gray (28:19):
Yeah, as I, as I was saying, I was like, oh my
goodness, like thinking evenabout, even just because, okay,
distribute my assets, likeyou're saying, the house, but
also like when to sell my stocks, and all of that, like it's
just, it's not just like, okay,this is all that I have and, you
know, divvy it up.
It's like when to sell, and allof that, versus like what
you're saying is like just oneperson does the, does the deal,

(28:40):
and then it makes it so mucheasier.
So, in terms of, because youare in Texas and we talked about
different, um, you know, indifferent states, are there
different when, when laws?
Because there is a, is there afederal estate planning tax?
And then, is it or is that?
Like, tell me a little bit more, you know about yeah.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (29:00):
So currently and I do want to just
give the you know the kind ofdisclosure that you know,
obviously I'm not providing anyspecifically little advice to
anyone that's watching this,because they need to have their
own special session to figureout what disclosure that you
know.
Obviously I'm not providing anyspecifically will advice to
anyone that's watching this,because they need to have their
own special session to figureout what applies to them.
But the federal estate taxexemption currently is about
$13.6 million per person, and somost of us are not blessed

(29:26):
enough at this point to have tobe worried about federal estate
taxes.
Now, texas, we do not have astate inheritance tax, just like
we do not have a state incometax.
Now there are many states wherethere is a state income tax and
also a state inheritance tax.

(29:47):
So right now I'm working on astate you know in personal life
that's out of Massachusetts, andit's my understanding that in
that state every estate under $2million is not taxable, but
estates over $2 million havestate inheritance tax not
federal, you know, but state andso that's again why you would

(30:09):
want to talk to a professionalin your state, because where
most people in Texas are nothaving to do very much, you know
, estate tax planning becausetheir states are not going to
rise over $27 million.
Then you know that's differentfrom somebody who may be in
Massachusetts and they alreadyhave a two point seven million

(30:30):
dollar state.
Then they may want to have somemore, you know.
Talk about where we think ourstate's going to be, you know,
years from now, and I mean withthe financial planning and that
kind of thing.
So that's definitely somethingto talk about.
They are talking about theestate tax exemption lowering
Congress.
You know they passed differentlaws to sunset, I think is what

(30:53):
they call it.
The estate tax exemptionlowering Congress.
You know they've passeddifferent laws to sunset, I
think is what they call it.
The estate tax exemption.
I believe it's supposed to godown to about $5 million per
person.
In my experience over the last25 years of practice, they
always wait till the last minuteand then change it and then
it's gone up.
You know it's consistently goneup since 1998.
So it was about $500,000 in1998.

(31:14):
So you can see I mean it keepsgoing up now that.
But all that to say, you knowdefinitely I mean talk to your,
you know, cpa.
Talk to an estate planningprofessional in your state
because you want to make surethat you are doing the best that
you can to avoid, you know,having estate taxes and

(31:34):
sometimes the valuation ofassets upon somebody's passing,
you know all of that kind ofstuff can help to reduce any
potential, you know, for estatetaxes, inheritance taxes.
So yeah, yeah, it's.

Erin Gray (31:47):
I feel like a lot of times it comes from a fear-based
place.
You know, like the like you'resaying, you know it's like
Congress is like changing it,it's like hurry up, it's like
like Wendy says like go, go,reach out to somebody that's
local for you, that knows thefinancial industry, but like
it's such a like do this from afear base versus like no, I want

(32:15):
, I love myself, I love myfamily, I want to make sure that
they are taken care of and thatthey don't have to figure this
out when I pass away.
And this is what I want to dofor them, you know.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (32:25):
Yeah, and that's another thing, too that
I wanted to just mention so wewere talking about state laws is
there are people that are supersurprised by what the actual
intestate succession laws are intheir state, and so I think
that you know when we create,whether it's a will or whether
it's a trust.
But I just tell people you arepicking your beneficiaries and

(32:49):
you are making a plan, becauseif you don't make a plan, the
state is going to make one foryou, and that plan that the
state makes it is not alwayswhat people expect, and they are
super unhappy when they get tomy office and someone has,
unfortunately, you know, you'realready in the midst of somebody
unexpectedly potentiallypassing away, which is one of

(33:09):
the reasons maybe they don'thave already a plan in place.
And then, on top of that,they're getting news that they
thought that they owned thatpartner's half of their house
and they're now co -owner intheir house with some adult
children of that spouse thataren't theirs, and that's not
making people really happy.
So that's again another reasonwhy to just to talk to a

(33:32):
professional and make a plan foreither yourself or, if you have
a partner or spouse, thatyou're making it with them so
that you don't get an unexpectedresult.
That is really, you know, afinancial disaster potentially
for certain people.
Or it creates a family, youknow division, or it creates
chaos because they haven't theyhaven't planned for themselves.

(33:54):
And now this law is different.
And again, because even betweenour state, like I said just
recently dealing with this statein Massachusetts, had no will
and I was really surprised thatsome of their inter um
interstate succession rules weredifferent um than what I had
seen.
You know, here, um, a big thingto check in your state is, you

(34:15):
know, in Texas people are supersurprised when I say that just
because a husband and wife bothhave their name on a deed to the
house, if one or the otherpasses, the other one does not
automatically own the house.
And they are just shockedbeyond belief that that is.
They literally are like I don'tbelieve you.
I'm going to go look it up, I'mgoing to go talk to the title

(34:35):
company, you know, and and and.
There are things we can do tocreate that survivorship.
But on a deed that just says,you know, john and Jane Doe,
husband and wife, that is notwhat the result is going to be.
So we want, if that's what wewant the result to be.
Then we need to put somedocuments in place to make that
happen.
So, even just that, like beinguninformed, they're like I don't

(34:57):
need a will because both of ournames are on the house and it's
not.
That's not that you know,that's not what happens
automatically.
So we do need some of thosedocuments and we want to have
those before we get into asurprise and, you know, not have
that in place and then theresult is not what we wanted.

Erin Gray (35:15):
Yeah, so I always say we have a plan, we have an
estate plan, whether you'veactually done it or you haven't
done it, like it's like, eitherthe outcome is because of of
what you decided to do and takeaction on it or, like you said,
within test date, which meansyou have no.
Will you have nothing set up,then you know the court will
take care of that for you and,like you said, it's not
necessarily in ways that youeven know or that the end end

(35:38):
result is what you actuallywanted.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (35:40):
So and it's just so much more costly
that way too, I mean, yeah, soit's just adds insult to injury
because there's no well, it'snot going the way they want.
And then also this wholeprocess has a thousands of
dollar price tag to get you knowsomething that they didn't want
even to start with.
And so it's just that I hatewhen that happens, because by

(36:01):
the time they get you know toour office, I mean we're, we're
obviously going to do the bestthat we can to make a difficult
situation, you know, as easy aspossible.

Erin Gray (36:10):
Um, but I don't have a magic wand, you know and the
emotional side of it right, Likethe emotional toll of going
through court, Like I know, likefor in Texas, because I I don't
, I don't know about it if Iknow anybody that's done probate

(36:31):
.
So like in terms of and I knowit's different in each state,
but like, what typically is thetimeframe?
Like is it?
Are we talking like, oh, amonth, or we're talking like six
months?

Wendi Lester Efflandt (36:36):
to.
You know, probably, well, andit depends.
It does depend, you know,county by county, because some
of our courts are morebacklogged but in in Williamson
County, Texas, where I am, we'rejust a little north of Austin,
we're not Travis, which is alittle bit bigger, um, where,
where Austin is located.
But if you've written a willagain to ask for this really
easy administration of theestate and that type of thing,

(36:56):
um, there's some probates thatcan last as short as 30 days.
There are some that can be 60days, um and so, but then again,
compared to those with no will,and there's a whole process and
we've got to get witnesses asto that.
You know deceased person'smarital and family history and
sometimes we don't know alltheir marital and family history
and we have to contact all ofthe heirs and guess what?

(37:19):
Sometimes there's a child thatthey don't really talk to and
they haven't talked to for 20years, you know.
So that can take months andmonths and months, you know,
without a will, whereas, justdepending on the county, there's
a few Texas counties that are alittle bit, you know,
backlogged, and so those woulddefinitely be again where you
live and what you're doing.
You may like if you live in acertain county, we might say we

(37:40):
really want to look at a trustbecause you know, probates in
this county are taking eightmonths, you know, and that might
not be something you know.
So, again, even where you live,having somebody who, and I
would say, and there are lots ofestate planners out there and
they're great people but alsopotentially having an attorney
that also practices in probate,because, again, I get wills from

(38:04):
people that dabble, you know,in estate planning and they put
the three children asco-executors and the three
children are in my office doingthe probate going, which one of
us can waive our right becausewe just want the smart girl to
do it, our sister, and then youknow, whatever other two are
saying, let her do it.
And so that to me wasn'twritten by a probate attorney

(38:24):
because they probably would nothave written that you know
that's a really good alsohelpful.

Erin Gray (38:30):
That's a really good point, because you do see that
sometimes there is specificityin in law and then practicing,
and then you'll see someattorneys that do construction
and they do real estate and theydo family law, and it's like
and if you don't, if you don'tknow the questions to ask, then
you think right, you're getting,you know all your documents,

(38:51):
all your ducks in a row, andthen come to find out, like you
said, like oh goodness, this isnot what we signed up for.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (38:56):
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, and there are cool thingsthat you can do in different
types of documents that willhelp to streamline things for
you know, but it also depends on, again, your family structure,
how old your kids are, how manykids there are, or maybe you
don't have kids and maybecharities are your goal, and you
know so.
There's definitely differentdocuments that you use to
accomplish different goals, butwhat people do is read, you know

(39:18):
, yeah, I really want to havethis transfer on death deed.
I heard it was so cool.
I saw it on Instagram and Iwrote it to.
I kid you not, I had a couplecome in.
Does this actually happen?
Yes, and they wrote a transferon death deed to their two minor
grandchildren and they were soproud because they were like our
house, this house is going tothis grandkid who's 12, and this

(39:43):
house is going to this grandkidwho were 13.
And I said to myself that isthe worst.
I mean, now you have a minor,you know owning property, who's
going to need a guardianship,and so.
But they read about it and theygot a form online and they even
had the really incorrect legaldescription of their house.
But, man, they were about totake it down to the Harris
County, you know tax assessorclerk, or you know to file it.

(40:03):
So that's again where you justyou know there are things that
could make it so much easier.
You just want to make sure thatyou're, you know, having
someone to help you that isexperienced and making the right
choice, instead of just goingwell, I heard this was cool, I'm
going to go try it, you know.

Erin Gray (40:20):
Yeah totally Like Wendy said already.
I mean, I didn't put that as adisclaimer, but I typically like
each of you listening, like I,part of the podcast is like to
empower you to like ask yourselfyour own questions and to you
know, like rely on your own selfand not like, oh, I heard it on
Aaron's podcast and so let mego do the X, y, z, like do your
own research.
But the the idea that we justwe hear things and then we don't

(40:48):
even question and we just youknow we're off.
We're off on this.
Um, I want to get into justbriefly, if you're okay with it,
like digital assets, becausethe way that, um, yeah, times
have changed so much.
What are your, I guess,thoughts or recommendations, and
not recommendations from likethis is what Wendy says, but
like, what have you seen withclients that do a lot of because

(41:09):
online businesses and things ofthat sort?

Wendi Lester Efflandt (41:11):
now, yes, so for sure, in all of the and
this is again that wholeattorneys that are practicing
probate have seen like thisissue where somebody can't get
their 4,000 iTunes songs or theycan't access their Bitcoin or
you know whatever.
So in all the documents that wedraft, we're going to have a
specific authority for theexecutor or the trustee whatever

(41:33):
kind of document that you have,and even your power of attorney
to deal with and access digitalassets, passwords.
You know things like that,because we have just had that
influx of everybody's doingsomething you know digitally.
Like that, because we have justhad that influx of everybody's
doing something you knowdigitally, and that kind of
thing.
The other thing that we willgive to clients, because we're

(41:53):
writing all the legal documents,but then we're also trying to
empower you in a practical senseof like here's how to also like
make sure that bad things don'thappen and everybody has
information, and so we have, Imean, and I know it's as simple
as like saying, oh, like writingdown your passwords, and I know
that we, you know, change ourpasswords every two weeks
because they make us on theSprint account or the T-Mobile

(42:15):
or you know whatever.
But I mean, some of the biggestthings are the password that
opens your cell phone, thepassword that opens your laptop,
because if they can't even getinto those two things, they the
password that opens your laptop,because if they can't even get
into those two things they'rereally not going to get anywhere
.
You know things like thesecurity code to our front door
If we have all of our documentsthat are somewhere.
So we give our clients like alittle location of important

(42:36):
documents worksheet and in thatit has not only like hey, where
do I keep important things Likemy birth certificate?
Where do I keep, you know, the,the D to our house if we own a
home?
And then here's the institutionwhere I have funds or you know
cause, 20 years ago someonepassed away and we're like, oh,
we'll just wait to get the mail.

(42:57):
Well, I mean, if we don't evenknow what companies that your
things are at, we don't know tocontact that company because we
have everything so online andemail and all that kind of stuff
.
So I tell people you know thephone, um, the laptop and even
just the email password, becausea lot of times we will change

(43:18):
all the internet passwords usingour email, but we don't change
the email password all thatoften and again, you don't have
to give it to them right now.
On the location of importantdocuments, you can say you know
whatever.
In my top dress drawer on theleft I've got written down.
You know these passwords orwhatever.
Or look for a password list, oryou know that kind of thing.
And I know there's all kinds ofapps now with them that you can

(43:38):
give a rescue person or anemergency contact if they can
prove that you're eitherincapacitated or you've passed.
But, um, we give worksheets tooand we were talking earlier
about kind of co-executors anddifferent things but we give you
some personal worksheets like,hey, burial and funeral
instructions.
You know, do I or do you wantto be so?

(44:02):
Do I not want or do I want togo to X charity?
And and I know it's like alittle bit younger, like we're
not, you know, and again, youcould change this in the future,
but we just give you that as astarting point of, hey, here's I
want to convey, you know thisinformation.
And then also like, hey, who'smy financial planner?
Who's my CPA?
Um, you know, what are somegoals that I consider important

(44:24):
for my kids or my family, orwhat are some goals that I
consider important for my kidsor my family, or what are some
special instructions I want myspouse to know about, or people
write things about their pets.
The neighbor really likesFluffy and so if anything
happens, ask her first if shewants Fluffy.
You know, I mean, but it's it's.
It sounds kind of silly andtrivial stuff, but the more that
you can convey that informationyou know, every few years, five
years, years or every 10 years,you kind of update it because

(44:45):
you have a different pet or youknow the kids are grown, they're
in, you know different stages,college is over, or you know
things like that.
Um, so we do give to our clientsthose kinds of things, but
there's no magic, there's nomagical formula to that
worksheet.
I mean you could make up yourown.
You know to keep the legaldocuments are certainly the

(45:07):
legal documents, but then withthat you want that personal.
You know information andpersonal.
You know instructions and andthat kind of preferences that
you let those important peoplewho will be handling this one
day know.
You know what it is that youare wanting them to do and what
was important to you.
You know what were is that youare wanting them to do and what
was important to you.

(45:27):
You know what were your goalsand your priorities.
That they know.

Erin Gray (45:30):
I wrote down treasure hunt, right.
Like it's like that's what itcould feel like to the people
that you leave behind, becauseyou're just literally like a
detective trying to figure itout and you just think about,
like you're already in anemotional state, right, the last
thing you want to be trying tofigure out is like how do I get
into the past, like being on thephone calling people, doing

(45:52):
those types of things, and it'slike I think I don't know how
you feel about this, wendy, butlike I feel like an estate plan
is for I mean, yes, there's theliving part right Of our
documents, like a power ofattorney and things of that sort
but like the afterlife stuff isfor the people that you care

(46:13):
about, it's not for you, right,and so making sure that your
family can do it as easily aspossible, as simple as possible,
it's like.
It's like a loving thing thatwe can do for our family, you
know.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (46:20):
And that's what I tell people now
too, and again, because we're somobile and, um, you know, know
we, you know we're more mobilethan we've ever been, and then
we're more internet based anddifferent things.
But as people are growing olderand maturing in their life and
kind of getting to that endstage, it's like, you know,
paring down on like the numberof accounts that you have and
the number of I mean I havethese people that come in to do

(46:41):
a probate and they're like shehad 782 dollars in this bank and
then she had 50 dollars.
But those are all places thatsomeone and it's just, it's to
me, I mean it just it helps themental, you know clearing up, um
, but you just would besurprised, like, why keep, you
know, 17 different accounts?
I mean, yes, we may want a few,um, because there are different
reasons one's a 401k or one'san investment or one's a

(47:02):
checking and a savings but like17 different accounts, I mean,
yes, we may want a few becausethere are different reasons
One's a 401k or one's aninvestment, or one's a checking
and a savings but like don'thave six checking accounts at
six different banks if you don'tneed that.
I mean that's just not nice topeople that are going to be
trying to help you.
You know, figure this stuff outat some point the other thing I
will bring up, and this isprobably going to be something

(47:24):
later in life that people mightwant to think about but when you
update your estate planningdocuments, please, please,
please, please, please, throwthe old ones away, because the
treasure hunt that you justtalked about you know, if I'm in
mom's house and I'm diggingaround and I'm looking for a
will, and I find a will and it'sdated 2010,.
I'm not going to go, you know.

(47:46):
Let's just keep looking and seeif I find one for 2018, you
know.
And so they get this will andthey're like I have a will, I
have a will and mom wrote a newwill in 2018.
Now I want to finance with aCPA and it'd be a better option
to do the executor or whatever,and they didn't throw those away
, and so I'll even find one forprobate.
And then, three weeks later,they're like hey, uh, we another

(48:09):
will when we were cleaning upthis and it's newer and and
that's really then I have to goback and fix, you know, and do
that.
And so people are like oh, Ijust kept all these cups.
No, like, keep the one that isthe current and just don't have
older versions of things, don'thave account statements laying
around your house for accountsyou don't have anymore, just

(48:30):
throw it away, because thenthey're calling that place.

Erin Gray (48:33):
That's such good advice, like, because I know so
many people that I think itcomes back and I mean we don't,
we don't have time or get intothe whole like.
But my grandfather's generationcame from the great depression
and I do see a lot of thathoarding mentality, hoarding of
like physical things andhoarding like what you're

(48:54):
exactly talking about, likefinancial statements and just
keeping years and years andyears of statements, and so
that's such a brilliant like, ofcourse that's what you do and
you see this.
But it's like I wouldn't haveeven thought to think about that
because, yeah, we, we makechanges and we keep old things
because a lot of us think like,well, just in case, right, like

(49:16):
this idea that like somebody, wemight need it at some future
point, right, right.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (49:21):
And so they found that that old one,
and it's not the one we want.
And yet somebody is now usingsomething that we have, you know
, completely revoked um withthis new one, because they, they
stop looking once they findwhat they're looking for.
I'm not inclined to go keeplooking for five more of the
same thing, so I just whenpeople want to people, I

(49:43):
literally ask to bring the oldones and I shred them for them
and I'm like this is the goodone.
We mark everything.
But you know, that's justsomething as life goes on,
because you know, when your kidsgrow older then you may want to
make them executor.
And now you found this old willthat had Uncle Tommy, and you
know we don't need him to do itanymore because our kids are 30,
you know.
So those are just the kind ofthings that we see.

(50:05):
And again, as a probateattorney, I'm like, even though
I'm doing your estate plan, I'mgoing to tell you to do that
because I don't want it to comeup later as a problem in the
probate.

Erin Gray (50:15):
Yeah, so it makes perfect sense.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (50:16):
Anything else that you want to add, that
maybe I haven't thought about toask, or no, I mean I, I, I
again, I just I think I wouldjust stress I know a lot of
people are like oh, I'm rightaway with ai and I'm gonna do
this and I'm gonna do that, um,and you know whatever, and I
just see um even when I look atsomething people using ai for
estate planning right now toobut trying to trying to write

(50:40):
their power of attorney with it,or trying to, and, and then
I'll, I'll even just sometimesI'm googling something and now,
you know, you get that firstlittle bit up there, it's some
AI.
And I am like, well, that's notactually the law.
Like I'm looking up an attorneyand you know whatever, which is
all false.
But I'm getting some otherinformation about whatever
subject it is, and I'm like, oh,no, no, no, no, you know.

(51:00):
And so I think that it's like Isaid, just like I wouldn't use
AI as a substitute for a medicalexamination, for a medical
problem.
I have Like, just you knowagain, and it now the unintended

(51:25):
results or the cost that theypay somebody to try to fix it,
if it can be fixed, is in athousand.
So it's like you know,sometimes an ounce of prevention
is worth a pound of cure.
And so you know, just beingprepared, I mean again, making
your own plan.
I think that that's just it'sso empowering to say making your
own plan.
I think that that's just it'sso empowering to say I'm going

(51:46):
to decide.
You know what is going to go onand who are going to be my
trusted people in the future.

Erin Gray (52:01):
Yeah, you know totally, I'm speechless Cause
I'm like I don't I believe youand I'm like I don't believe
that this happens, cause it'slike, yeah, there's just things
that AI cannot replace, and thatI believe it's like, yeah,
there's just things that AIcannot replace, and that I
believe it's like our knowledgeand our wealth of experience
right Years and years and yearsof experience, and like use AI
for how to make I don't knowcornbread or something how to
write a cover letter, yeah, yeah, exactly how to write a cover
letter for blah blah blah.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (52:21):
Or how to send a text to your friend that
you really don't know what tosay tactfully, Like that's what
I feel, like that's what thosekind of things are for.
But I hear more and more of it.
You know people saying like, oh, I use this for that and I use
it to, like, try to write a deedor like something, and I'm like
, oh no, don't do that.
I mean because, like I said,when I look at it just in the AI

(52:41):
suggestions so many times, atit just in the AI suggestions so
many times, it's so incorrectBecause it's, you know, a
smattering of all kinds ofdifferent information.
So, yeah, totally.

Erin Gray (52:52):
Yeah, thank you, wendy, for your time.
Where can people find?

Wendi Lester Efflandt (52:58):
more about you, learn more about you,
contact you.
If they're in Texas, sure, yeah, so best place would be.
All of our information islisted on our website.
So we are heritage law and wedo as well as estate planning
and probate.
I do handle adoptions, so wehave done that for many years.
We do some real estatetransaction deeds, transfer and
death deeds, things like thatbut our website is just the
Heritage Law TX Got to rememberthe TXcom and that will have all

(53:20):
of our contact informationinformation about the rest of
our team.
I'm not the only one there.
There's a lot of other talentedpeople at our office which we
love to serve people.
As a team, we feel like we'restronger as a team to help
people.

Erin Gray (53:35):
Perfect, I'll put all of Wendy's information in the
show notes.
So thank you, wendy, for comingon and sharing your knowledge
with us.
Thank you for inviting me.

Wendi Lester Efflandt (53:42):
It was great to get to share and love
what you're doing and for eachof.