April 5, 2023 • 53 mins
Because one in five women will struggle with fertility challenges, we can't NOT talk about how this affects our friendships. In the inherently lonely journey of fertility, we need friends around us who understand the pain wrapped up in bearing children, whether they have directly experienced what we are walking through or not.
Rachael Coria graciously lets us into her past story of miscarriage and current journey through infertility, soberly refusing to try to put a neat bow on this complex and challenging area of our lives. Instead, she points us to Jesus at every turn, speaking Biblical wisdom to those walking their own fertility journeys and those of us who are walking alongside a friend through such a valley.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kimber (00:09):
Hey friends.
Welcome to the, your sisterKimber podcast.
My name is Kimberly Gilbert, andI'm so glad you're here.
It's my honor today to betalking with my friend, Rachel
Correa, about a part of each ofour journeys that.
Affects so many of us today,we're talking about how
loneliness comes for us on ourjourneys through fertility and
the challenges that we face whengrowing a family isn't as easy
(00:32):
as we assumed it would be.
In fertility miscarriage, birthtrauma, infant loss.
There is so much pain inchildbearing.
And I'm not talking aboutliteral labor pains here.
We feel this aspect of the curseof sin so heavily, I think.
And whether it's part of yourstory or you're walking it with
a friend.
This road is perhaps one of thehardest that we will traverse in
(00:56):
this life.
And friend, I don't want you towalk it alone any longer.
If this is part of your story, Iam so honored that you would
join us for this talk today.
I'm praying.
It helps you remember that youare seen and loved and treasured
by your friends.
And most importantly, by theLord.
And if this isn't part of yourstory friends, we need to lean
(01:18):
in here and learn.
Our sisters need us in thisfight.
I wish we could talk this out,looking at each other eye to eye
with a warm mug of coffee in ourhands, but this is the next best
thing.
I'm so glad you're here, friend.
Let's get started.
Rachael (01:38):
Hi.
Kimber (01:38):
Hey, how are you doing today?
How's your day been?
Rachael (01:41):
It's been good.
I've been nervous and justpitting this conversation, but
it's been a good day.
we got some things done and soit's always feels good to make
progress
Kimber (01:53):
Absolutely.
Why don't you go ahead andintroduce yourself to our
friends listening, so they kindof know what your, what your
days look like right now.
Rachael (02:00):
my name's Rachel Coria.
I, right now I'm a stay-at-homemom.
so most of my days kind ofrevolve around like, doing
things with my daughter and justtry to keep the house, in
somewhat of a livable mandstate.
but I've also, so I also teachonce a week, uh, Spanish for
(02:23):
kids, that are doing homeschoolclasses.
Kimber (02:25):
Yeah.
Rachael (02:26):
And then I also recently started a job as a
community administrator, whichis very, very part-time.
It doesn't sound part-time, Idon't
Kimber (02:36):
It sounds pretty intense.
Yeah.
Rachael (02:37):
it's for, o pairs that are like coming in from other
countries and they s.
Live in a home and they nannythe children
Kimber (02:45):
Yeah.
Rachael (02:46):
in the home with.
And so I just have one, a pairthat I'm working with in one
family, so it's
Kimber (02:52):
Cool.
Rachael (02:53):
maybe like seven hours a month.
So again, my day-to-day is verymuch just like life and trying
to figure that out.
Kimber (03:03):
absolutely.
Friends listening, if you havebeen listening to the podcast
for very long, you have probablyheard about Rachel because you
were just a really formativefriend for me in the time when
we were in Fairbanks.
we sort of became friends out ofa really difficult like
friendship loss season for me.
And I think that a lot of thatsort of funneled into me
(03:26):
starting, you know, my writingand stuff and podcasting with
your sister Kimber.
And so I feel like I end up kindof talking about you often which
is so cool.
You guys just were such you sogenerously embraced us, I feel
like, when we needed people.
And so I feel like, it's really,it's fun to be able to talk to
you today because I feel likeI've talked about you some, um,
(03:49):
in a little bit more abstractway around here before.
But, um, we got to spend lots ofgood afternoons, just like doing
the toddler lunch situationthing.
And then we would put the kidsdown to nav and we got to do
some Bible study.
Just hangout time.
And those were such sweet timesfor me.
I loved that.
It was
Rachael (04:09):
Yeah, I, I appreciate that.
And it was a very interestingtime for me too, because I think
right before, like we startedhanging out more, the Lord was
really showing to me like, youneed to pour into different
people.
Because I've lived in Fairbankspractically my whole life.
And so I, there's a lot ofpeople I, I know and it can be
(04:31):
hard to know like who to pourinto.
Kimber (04:34):
Yeah.
Rachael (04:34):
but it was specifically a time that like the doors were
open to like, yes, like pursuenew people and pursue them.
not neglecting your otherrelationships, but you might be
spending more time with newpeople, which is very
interesting.
Kimber (04:50):
it is.
yeah, it's, it's foreign to meto think about living in the
same place my whole life, youknow?
And like, or at least most ofit.
And having like, your friendshipstill ebb and flow, right?
Like it's, those dynamics stillchange.
But for me, those dynamicchanges have always happened in
conjunction, or often havehappened in conjunction with
(05:12):
also moving location.
And so I feel like it's easy tolike blame those kind of things
on the changes of location or,you know, jobs or, or whatever.
but I feel like they happenanyway.
Right.
Like what has been a good sideof like always living in the
same place friendship-wise andwhat has been like a more
challenging side of it, wouldyou say?
Rachael (05:33):
Yeah.
I would say one of the bestthings is like having history
with people that, like I havefriends that I'm 36 now, that I
was friends with, in my earlytwenties and maybe a little bit
before that.
And so there's a lot ofsweetness in that.
And then experiencing lifestages, together.
(05:57):
the challenge there is like inthe opening up your like world
to like, we live in a, amilitary town, so like people
that are in the military that,you know, won't be there for
very long.
So you know that You desire,like the same sort of depth of
relationship that you have withother people, but you know, like
(06:17):
this is probably just gonna befor a time and, and that's very
challenging.
but so good too.
Um, it's really good to like beopen to those new relationships
and to grow and be willing tolike, at times focus more on
those relationships, which feelsodd in some ways to be like, we
(06:40):
can't just like pour intoeveryone at all times,
Kimber (06:43):
That's so true though.
It's so true.
There's like a certain capacityonly.
I love that you said that, likeyou felt like the Lord is kind
of pushing you in thatdirection, like cuz I think we
can like ask God, like, what doyou have for me in the area of
friendship right now and stuff.
And I think that's not maybe onethat we a lot of times think
about, talking to God about.
At least I, I don't think that Ihave historically thought about
(07:05):
that a lot.
You know, you think about maybelike in your marriage, if you're
married or you think about, youknow, family or, you know, what
should I do is my job next or,you know, something.
But I, I think that's reallycool to like ask him and seek
what do you have for me in thearea of friendship right now?
And then was that like sort of achallenge to you?
Was that like a out of yourcomfort zone kind of call?
Or was it just a shift?
Rachael (07:26):
it's, it's always sort of like an out of my comfort
zone thing, because like themore comfortable thing is to
just stick with the people thatlike, I know that when I like
hang out with them, like I knowwhat to expect.
I know probably theconversations we'll have, which
there can be good and bad there.
Kimber (07:45):
Sure
Rachael (07:45):
fall into a rut with your friends that you've known
forever.
but yeah, at the same time, likefeel like the Lord was really
showing to me like there is aneed where you are for people
who need depth of a relationshipthat don't currently have
avenues for that.
And
Kimber (08:06):
He was talking about me, Rachel
Rachael (08:09):
Yeah.
Maybe.
Kimber (08:10):
No, not only me, I'm sure, but I was one of those.
Yes, yes.
Rachael (08:15):
Yeah.
And calling like the call tostep out of like the place where
I felt very comfortable and thenI had grown in, into like a new.
Place is very uncomfortable.
Kimber (08:27):
Totally.
Mm.
Rachael (08:29):
like, it's like one of those things when the Lord, like
more and more you can feel thepressure to like do what you're
supposed to do
Kimber (08:36):
Yeah.
Rachael (08:37):
And it was like, okay, God, like you've been telling me
this.
And now it's just time to like,not cut ties completely, but
like cut some of the like tiesthe weekly meetings sort of
things that we are doing with,with other relationships and
then Make room.
for new people, which
Kimber (08:55):
so cool.
Well, I know I was blessed byyour obedience there, which is
cool to like see the, I don'tknow, it's cool to see like the
hindsight of that and like hearthat.
That's one reason I love havingthese conversations, especially
with people that, like I'veknown for a while because I feel
like these kind of things alwayscome up and it's like you get to
look back and you get to seelike where they were at and like
how you like answered eachother's prayer requests or like
(09:19):
how someone was there f like, Idon't know.
It's just, it's really cool.
So, ugh.
I love hearing that.
Well, you know, today this isprobably kind of one of those
those moments as well because,I'm really honored that you
would have this conversationwith me today because it's
definitely one that, as I wasthinking about this loneliness
series that we've been in, thatI was like, ah, we gotta talk
about the struggles thatsurround just.
(09:41):
our lives as women in generalbecause fertility, infertility,
miscarriage, like all the thingsthat surround the complexities
of having babies, you know, justwe can big umbrella that it's
all so complex.
And I feel like I wasn'tprepared for it.
(10:02):
coming into adulthood.
Like, I felt like it was just agiven.
Like, you know, if you wannahave kids, you can have kids.
And if you don't, you don'tlike, oh man.
But like it's, there's so muchmore, there's so much more
there.
And so just in like the past, Imean maybe like five years as I
feel like for me, just where I'mat in life, when this started
(10:22):
becoming just like such a burdenon my heart because I'm just, it
affects every corner of ourrelationships as women, I feel
like, in one way or another.
And talking about lonelinessspecifically, I'm like, man,
there's so much that I thinkcomes from this.
Like whether it's, you know, afriend who's walking through
miscarriage and like that is alonely grief in many ways, which
(10:48):
we'll get into here, you know?
And, infertility, several of myvery close friends are walking
through that as well, and it'slike, how do I love them?
Well through that, you know, nothaving walked through it myself
you know, and then there's thecomplexities of do you wanna
have kids?
When do you wanna have kids?
Like, it is an inherentlyisolating journey, I feel like,
(11:08):
because of how, like, privacyand, you know, just our culture,
um, how it interacts with this.
And so, I was like, man, wegotta talk about this.
But it's a big thing and it's anuanced subject.
Yeah.
And so I am really thankful toyou for at least like,
scratching the surface of itwith me today.
(11:29):
And, um, just sharing a littlebit about your story with it as
well.
Do you feel like when you likecame into adulthood, were you
like aware of just the strugglesurrounding like bearing
children?
You know, it's like in Genesis,in the, the curse we hear like
pain and childbirth, but it'snot like labor pains.
(11:50):
Like, yes, there's that, butit's like struggle around the
idea, the whole encompassingthing of like having children is
gonna be, there's gonna bestruggle there.
And I'm like, yep, I see it now.
But I wasn't prepared for that.
Do you feel like you were goinginto adulthood or was this kind
of something that came on yousuddenly
Rachael (12:09):
I would say that I relate to a lot in the sense
that I also thought that like,okay, like having kids, like
planning that out, that's all agiven.
Like, that's exactly like thethought process.
And so a lot of like, my currentjourney also is reflecting on
those things that I thought werejust going to happen and kind of
(12:32):
grieving that the realitydoesn't look like I had
expected.
And I come from a large family,there's six of us children and
we're all pretty much two yearsapart.
So there's like some of thatthat's like ingrained in me that
like,
Kimber (12:48):
the way it
Rachael (12:49):
it's, it's not hard to have children or something.
Kimber (12:53):
right.
Sometimes I joke with myfriends, it's like, you know, we
grew up, I think being so like,like be careful.
Like, you know, like stay away.
You know?
And then it's like you actuallylearn about how everything that
has to happen to actually likecreate a baby I mean,
Rachael (13:10):
It's a miracle.
It really is.
A
Kimber (13:12):
yes.
And when you come face to face,I think with like that struggle
in either your own life or thelife of a friend, even more so,
it's completely miraculous andyet Yeah.
It, it's so often doesn't seemthat way, you know?
Rachael (13:25):
exactly.
I think it's also painted in away like by society like that we
get to choose like in current.
Age, like we have a lot ofchoices if it comes to like
choosing birth control or evenjust like choosing to like
follow your cycles naturally.
Like there's so much informationand there's so many options that
(13:48):
it feels like you can controlit,
Kimber (13:51):
it gives the illusion of control.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Rachael (13:55):
Yeah.
Kimber (13:55):
so true.
Well, I'm excited to, to hearfrom your perspective on this,
because it seems so pervasive,at least in like, my situation
in life right now.
I'm like so many people that Iknow are touched by this,
whether they're experiencing itor they have a close friend
that's walking through it.
And so, I just, I think we needto talk about it more and I'm,
I'm really thankful that, it isgetting talked about more, just
(14:19):
like the struggles of it and howwe can be good friends to each
other as we're walking throughthat.
So thank you for, for beingwilling to today.
Maybe we can kind of start withjust how has, fertility
challenges in general.
Has this touched your story?
And, um, where, where are youcoming from as you come to this
convers.
Rachael (14:40):
Yeah.
you know, there's the long storyand then the shorter immigration
of it, but I think I'll try toland somewhere in the middle.
Kimber (14:48):
Yeah.
Rachael (14:49):
so from the planning side of things, like my husband
and I got married we kind ofdecided we both wanted to be
done with school for the mostpart.
Like, and then we would starttrying and we got married
around, we were 27, 28, and sowe were looking at like early
thirties.
(15:09):
All right.
That will be the time.
Kimber (15:11):
Yeah,
Rachael (15:12):
Year four of marriage hit which is also like about
four years ago now.
So a little over four years, welike started the process of
trying to ha like start ourfamily and grow our family, all
those things.
And miraculously we got pregnantright away and, I was not
(15:33):
expecting that necessarily, butit happened.
And we went in for our firstappointment at about, six weeks.
And the, yeah, the midwife wasvery quiet during that
ultrasound and afterwards sheexplained to us something that I
was kind of confusing at thetime, but it was like, okay,
(15:55):
like it's very likely you'regonna miscarry this baby.
And,
Kimber (15:59):
gosh.
So you had not at that point.
Rachael (16:02):
Yeah, I hadn't yet.
there was no, like, heartbeatdetected, but, um, what she was
saying was like, blood workneeded to be done to confirm
that it was like this pregnancywould end with me miscarrying.
Kimber (16:17):
Oh man.
Rachael (16:17):
and we had already told a lot of people, and so when we
left, like one of the firstthings I told my husband was
like, why did we tell so manypeople?
because I didn't wanna have tolike relive the grief I was
feeling, like I wanted to justhold up and be by myself and cry
(16:40):
and grieve and all those things.
and.
Yeah.
So blood work later in that weekconfirmed that we were gonna
miscarry and, and then we did afew weeks later and the process
of all that was pretty awful.
Um,
Kimber (16:58):
I mean, the waiting for that seems to me like it would
be really unbearable.
Rachael (17:03):
yes, yeah, I mean, I was teaching at the time and I,
so I had, we had decided not tohave the miscarriage like
induced or like any of thosethings.
partly because like I washanging on to
Kimber (17:19):
Mm-hmm.
Rachael (17:20):
what if they're wrong, you know, or
Kimber (17:22):
Yeah, Yeah,
Rachael (17:23):
and so it was just a really awful time.
And because we had told a lot ofpeople, we had to tell a lot of
people that we were miscarryingour baby too, and.
To be honest, like I was in suchgrief that there were people
that I hadn't told yet that,like the day that I found out I
was in like a church class and Ileft to talk to the doctor, and
(17:50):
a friend was like coming out andI was just like, she came up,
she could tell something waswrong.
She gave me a huge hug and Iburst into tears and I told her
that.
So I was pregnant.
I'm miscarrying this, this baby.
And it was a friend that hadbeen struggling with infertility
for years.
So it was very like, kind ofstrange that like the person God
(18:12):
gave me in that moment tocomfort me was someone that had
been wanting a baby for so long
Kimber (18:18):
Hmm.
Rachael (18:19):
and, so we were loved so well by God in, in those like
subsequent days because, becausewe had let people in.
Kimber (18:31):
hmm.
Right.
Rachael (18:32):
and there were a few things that like, were just
reinforced to me about God, likein those early days and then
like subsequent months as wellwas just like, okay, like God is
sovereign and he is good, he'sgood.
And so like, it did not make anysense at all.
(18:53):
Like why?
We would get pregnant with thisbaby and then never be able to
hold him or her.
And none of that made sense.
But like, God loved us throughhis children and people brought
us meals and came to hang outwith us.
(19:14):
And I remember one friendspecifically coming to my door
and just, she's like, I can justdrop things off.
And like, she burst into tears.
She's like, I'm sorry that I'mthe one crying.
And I'm like, but it felt sogood to me to have
Kimber (19:28):
Hmm.
Rachael (19:29):
my grief validated that she was grieving with me.
Kimber (19:33):
yeah,
Rachael (19:34):
so those early days were just really hard, but also
sweet and how, we were loved inthose moments.
Kimber (19:42):
That's something that, that last bit that you shared
about like your friend,apologizing for like, I'm sorry,
I'm the one man.
I like really resonate with thatbecause in my relationships
where friends are walkingthrough hard.
Moments, some with infertility,um, a few with miscarriages.
It's like, I don't wanna be aburden, you know?
(20:05):
Like, I don't want you to feellike you have to take care of me
you know, like I never want myfriend to feel like she has to
say like, it's okay orsomething, or like to me inre,
but I think that I expressedthat tension the other day to, a
group of ladies that I wasprocessing some things with.
(20:25):
and one of the gals said thatsimilar thing.
She was like, I don't know whatyour friend's like, but when
I've been in that situation, shewas like, honestly, like seeing
a friend grieve authenticallywith me.
it made me feel like I wasn'talone and like, you know, it
validated it, like you said,which that is kind of a shift to
(20:46):
me, and I feel like it's givenme some permission to like
express some of those aspects oflike how this grieves my heart,
which is not in any waycomparable.
to, you know, the actual mother,but like, still is like, it's
okay to show that, you know, isdo you think there's like a way
that's makes it not okay or doesit depend on your relationship?
(21:07):
Like, do you know what I mean?
Is there like anything we shouldcaution ourselves against as
like, friends trying to lovesomeone in that moment,
Rachael (21:16):
yeah, I would say, it's hard because, I do think that
like women in that positionreally process differently.
Kimber (21:25):
Yeah, that's so true.
and it can look so different foreveryone's situation is so
different too.
Rachael (21:31):
yeah.
But I do think like the depth ofyour relationship with that
person does count.
and I do think sometimes thingsaren't received well in the
moment and later can beappreciated.
and.
Used to be more slow to likereach out to people that I knew
were grieving because I didn'tknow how to meet them in their
(21:54):
grief.
But I would say now that I'vehad different moments in life
that like were intense griefmoments,
Kimber (22:02):
Mm-hmm.
Rachael (22:03):
I remember what people specifically did for me that
were helpful and I try to dothat for other people.
if you are like, unsure of whatbe helpful, I'd say ask your
friend and, rather than havinglike a blanket question, like is
there anything I can do to help?
(22:23):
Which a person who's grieving, Igrieving, I think often doesn't
Kimber (22:28):
Doesn't know.
Yeah, a hundred
Rachael (22:30):
But if you were to like offer like, hey, like can I
bring you a meal or come and doyour dishes, or just sit with
you and have tea?
Like, do any of these sound goodto you?
Kimber (22:43):
A, B, or C
Rachael (22:45):
Yeah.
And maybe, maybe none of thosesound good, but it, I think that
gives your friend theopportunity to be like yes or
no.
Um, and they kind of be at thewheel of like letting you
comfort them or not.
Kimber (23:01):
I love that
Rachael (23:01):
maybe if you're being hit like super hard by what
they're going through, maybethere's like a balance of like
not being hysterical, like whenyou're with them, but like,
maybe just like having processedand prayed through things before
you meet them.
I think that helps.
you're right, like you don'twanna like further burden your
(23:22):
friend.
Kimber (23:22):
right.
It feels like a balance.
Rachael (23:24):
it is.
Yeah.
Kimber (23:26):
I, I also appreciate what you said about the, like,
depth of friendship because, youknow, I, I think it's important
to remember that like, we aren'teveryone's best friend and we
don't need to be so like, Justbecause we know about something
doesn't necessarily mean that,we're needed to be like in the
closest, care circle for that.
So I think really likeevaluating that maybe like your
(23:49):
motives with like an honestheart.
Like, if I'm like authenticallyfeeling grief here and I feel
like that is something that, I'msharing with like a best closest
friend Yeah.
That seems like the mostauthentic response.
But if it's more like, oh, Ijust like feel bad for them, you
know, I think there's differencethere.
And I think, like you said,processing that with someone
(24:12):
else even could help you figureout that, that kind of thing.
Like the specific I'm talkingabout.
Like I got to talk about thatwith my Bible study, who like my
friend is not in that.
So it was like a space where Icould process that with people
who, you know, love the Lordwere safe, and could gimme some
wisdom, they weren't in thatsituation themselves.
(24:32):
And so, um, I think that couldbe a really, a really helpful
thing too, is like to know thatwe don't only have to like be
with the person in that, butthat can help us get to a place
where we can, I don't know, makesure, just check our motives and
our heart a little bit.
Rachael (24:46):
Yeah.
I think that's good.
Kimber (24:52):
Hey friend, forgive me for taking a quick moment in
this conversation to ask a favorof you.
I hope my conversation withRachel is blessing you today.
And if so, would you just take amoment to rate and review the
show on apple podcasts?
Reviews are huge and helping newfriends find the show and
bonuses.
I do love reading.
What is blessing you from eachof the episodes, You can find
(25:14):
the link to leave a review inthe description of this episode.
So, thanks so much for taking asecond to do that.
Okay.
Now back to the shell.
So how did this continue in yourlife?
Um, where did it go?
From here?
Rachael (25:32):
So we, what we were living at was like, all right,
we wanted to start trying againto have another baby.
And there's a lot of conflictingemotions after having a
miscarriage pregnant.
Kimber (25:49):
Mm, yes.
Mm-hmm.
Rachael (25:52):
And then like, what if I get pregnant again and
miscarry again and all thesefears, but still really, really
hoping that you'll get pregnant.
So, we tried almost a year, Ithink, when I got pregnant with
my daughter, so, so yeah, Icarried her full term
Kimber (26:11):
Mm-hmm.
and she's wonderful.
Rachael (26:13):
she is really great.
I really love her
Kimber (26:16):
Hmm.
Rachael (26:17):
yeah, so that kind of like puts a pause on like a
fertility journey cuz it's likethis moment of like, okay, like
God gave us a child.
Like this is wonderful andbeautiful and like, She probably
wouldn't be if we didn'tmiscarry the first, which is
Kimber (26:36):
that's a whole thing.
Rachael (26:38):
beautiful and awful
Kimber (26:40):
Yep.
Rachael (26:40):
about.
And so somewhere like along thefirst year of her life we
decided like, okay, when sheturns one, we're gonna start
trying again.
and we still haven't gottenpregnant and it's been, like a
year and a half of like tryingafter that, so, because I'm 36,
so I think when they say you're,if you're 35 or older, like
(27:04):
after trying six months, go getthings checked out.
Kimber (27:08):
Okay.
Rachael (27:08):
so that was kind of in the back of my head.
And, six months hit andsomething really weird kind of
happened, I.
Took some pregnancy testsbecause it was like a longer
cycle.
My cycle kind of
Kimber (27:21):
Uhhuh.
Yeah.
Rachael (27:23):
and I saw two lines, and it was, the second one was
very faint.
And then the next day, the samething happened.
And like, I announced to myhusband that we were pregnant,
all these things.
And then I sent a picture of itto my sister because there was
like a little bit of doubt inthe back of my head because it
(27:46):
was so faint.
And she's like, Rachel, I, Idon't see a second line.
And it was like awful and weirdand like devastating.
Like, because I had alreadystarted like counting on this,
like I don't know what to callit, like, um, Non-existent
pregnancy that I thought wasreal.
Kimber (28:07):
Well just, yeah.
That what you thought?
Yeah.
Rachael (28:11):
And our minds can play terrible tricks on us.
I, I think legitimately that'swhat happened and it almost
feels embarrassing, like tothink about that time because I
was like so deceived in my ownhead, you know?
Kimber (28:28):
I mean, it's like, this is, to me, one of the struggles
of, you know, walking aninfertility journey, to me that
seems so challenging is it's solike, pervasive in your life.
Like it's, everything is wrappedup in it that like, you know,
you're hoping for something sointently always, because it's
like either you're in, you know,the week of like, you're trying
(28:51):
to, you know, make that happenor, and you know, not mess up
your days or whatever, like, oryou're waiting for those two
weeks or you're in a week ofdisappointment.
Like it's always.
Present.
And so the fact that you wouldExperience that, that doesn't
seem crazy to me at all.
And I don't think it should beembarrassing because like, I
(29:13):
actually have a friend who didthe same thing actually.
And, and it almost seems likejust, it seems like a cruel
trick of the enemy.
Those kind of like hopefulmoments when it's like you think
something and then it just,nope.
And it's just like, ugh.
And then it's that over and overand over month after month.
(29:33):
Like what seems to me like itcan become so devastating it's
like how do you get your hopesup over and over and deal with
the disappointment?
what has that rollercoaster, ifyou will, looked like for you?
Rachael (29:48):
Yeah.
I think this is an area that Ihope there's been growth in.
Um, yeah, it's hard, especiallylike, uh, those about two weeks,
like after ovulation when you'rejust like waiting and I've never
been more aware of my body andall the different like, feelings
(30:09):
that happen like throughout themonth and.
Kimber (30:13):
pain here.
Is that good?
Oh, I feel sick.
Or did I eat a bad sandwich?
Like, yeah, you're, and you'reoverthinking constantly, I
Rachael (30:21):
Yep.
Yeah, there have been a numberof times that I have felt
nauseous.
There have been times that I'vefelt like the metal mouth
sensation, like
Kimber (30:30):
Yeah.
Rachael (30:31):
weird, like shortness of breath, like all these like
weird things that, can often belabeled as like early pregnancy.
but I think the, like growth inthis area is for me has been
realizing like what a battlethose two weeks are and trying
to anticipate the battle beforeit comes.
(30:52):
Um, because oftentimes, thereare gonna be aspects of the
cycle that I feel caught offguard by.
and even in entering the battleas far as like my thought life
and, um, trying to stay presentand
Kimber (31:08):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Rachael (31:09):
it's just easy to like from one day to the next.
have your thoughts shift or youland more on the, like, like
hoping so much that you'rethinking ahead, like planning
and then, or like feeling likenot hopeful at all, so again, I
(31:31):
think the growth there has beenlike, The Lord has really been
reinforcing to me that I justneed to abide in him.
because I've never felt sounstable, like in my emotions
and thought life as in thisfertility journey, and it really
highlights my need to like, forremain in the Lord.
(31:54):
because I, I know that when I amlike with him and praying and
spending time in his word andgiving up a thought when it
comes to my head, giving that upto the Lord and being like,
okay, God, I know first of allthat, you know, like I have this
twinge in my side and it'smaking me think that I might be
pregnant.
(32:15):
But like, I can be okay notknowing because you know, I will
eventually know, but for now, Idon't know.
And that's okay.
and oftentimes he just shows melike the beautiful things about
that day.
so it is a very strange thing,but it's being willing to enter
the battle and know that it'scoming potentially, and, and not
(32:40):
being apathetic to, to, stallthe feelings.
because there are times in that.
In those two weeks that I like,I know that I need to go to the
Lord with how I'm feeling and Idon't want to, because I think
we forget what his rest and hispeace feels like and how that is
so much better than anythingelse that we can think or feel.
Kimber (33:03):
Yeah, because it's like this goal, the have a baby, like
that's the goal.
And I think sometimes when thegoal is so big, it's like,
Drowns everything else out.
Which it's not a bad goal, ofcourse, you know, like it's
good.
But yeah, I love that of like,rest, his rest and his presence
being the like, best thing inthe midst of all that.
(33:25):
Hmm.
You're, as you said, that like,um, it can shift from day to
day.
you know, it's not like, oh, mytwo week wait is always this
way, Like, definitely not right?
It's like, you know, some daysare hopeful, some days are.
Devastating and frustrating, I'msure.
Like, how do you think, how haveyou seen maybe, through your own
(33:48):
experience or, you know, ineven, I don't know if you've
walked through this with otherfriends too, you know, how can
we, like, love our friends well,an infertility journey.
Like what are some things thatyou have seen friends do that
have made you feel really lovedand that, have been really
helpful and what are, you know,if there's anything that comes
to mind that like we really needto stop doing or that just is
(34:11):
not gonna bring life to ourfriend who's walking through
this kind of a season, do youthink, and I know it's one
perspective, but I think it'sgood to like hear this kind of
thing.
Rachael (34:21):
Yeah, I appreciate that because like, you always wanna
consider the friend that isexperiencing it and know them,
to know what helpful is nothelpful, but yes.
I think there are some thingsthat can translate from one
experience to the next.
Um, I would say currently what'sbeen most helpful is I have a
(34:42):
few friends that I don't know ifthey just like remember off the
top of their head or if they'relike putting it in their
calendar, but like they have ageneral sense of like, like my
cycle and like when it's ending.
Like sometimes like even whenI'm ovulating, like those sort
of things.
Kimber (35:00):
You're Like how do you know this?
Rachael (35:02):
Yeah.
It's pretty, it's awesome.
Um, and particularly like comingto the end of a cycle, like I
think they're pretty good aboutnot day one being like, Hey,
how's it going?
But like a few days in like,just checking up on me because
they've anticipated be a hardtime
Kimber (35:23):
yeah,
Rachael (35:23):
So I think that has been like very helpful to me.
I think also just praying forour friends that are.
In these situations, becausepraise God that you don't know
like exactly what it is thatthey're like feeling and going
through.
but through prayer, our love forpeople grows and our
(35:44):
thoughtfulness of that persongrows.
And when I'm praying forsomeone, I'm much more willing
to send them a text or connectwith them in some way.
so I think that's like primary.
Um,
Kimber (35:58):
I love the encouragement to pray for them.
That's so, that's so goodbecause it's like, I think we
can pray for the situation, butI think even expanding that
prayer to like praying for theirheart, not just like the outcome
we want and stuff.
And, but then also like askingGod to like grow our capacity as
friends for them specifically inthis moment.
(36:20):
you know, especially if this islike a new situation that you're
coming to and like, if someonehas never, if you've never
walked through that or you know,you've never had a friend who
has walked through that, like,we can ask God to give us
wisdom.
Right.
And he can like grow ourcapacity to be a good friend in
that situation.
I think so.
I love that reminder.
Rachael (36:38):
yeah,
Kimber (36:39):
beautiful.
Rachael (36:39):
And it's huge like when your friends aren't going
through the same things, to knowthat they are like, at least
like thoughtful of that you aregoing through those things, and
particularly in likeinfertility.
Probably because it's somethingthat's I am always aware of.
and as a friend you don't haveto always be aware.
Kimber (37:01):
Mm-hmm.
Rachael (37:02):
but knowing that, you thought of me in a moment
Kimber (37:06):
Yeah.
Rachael (37:07):
is is very huge.
and on the like, other side,like things that aren't helpful,
first of all, I'm very thankfulfor my friends.
I think primarily they have justbeen helpful and a lot of the
like, horror stories of likeunhelpful things, like people
like, giving you informationabout like adoption or like
(37:29):
other avenues that as a personis.
Struggling with like, trying toget pregnant.
I'm aware of the
Kimber (37:37):
I'm very aware of the options.
Rachael (37:39):
and, and I've considered them.
Kimber (37:42):
Yeah.
Rachael (37:43):
and my prayer is that the Lord would lead me to those
things if I am supposed to endup there.
Um, so thankfully like thathasn't really happened too much
for me.
but I would say in particular,if your friend is sharing like
where they're at or what they'regoing through, or the last
doctor's appointments, know thatit's coming from a really
(38:05):
vulnerable place.
And so if the conversation getsinterrupted, like, and your
friend can't finish what they'resaying, that can be really
painful.
Kimber (38:15):
Yeah.
Rachael (38:16):
and not that we have to take out.
every interruption.
maybe going back to thatconversation later, or sending a
text and being like, I'm sorry,we were interrupted.
Like right as you were sharingthese things.
and reinforcing like your carefor them very important and very
sweet.
And I think for me, like in the,like isolation that happens in
(38:39):
my head with
Kimber (38:40):
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Rachael (38:42):
I feel like Satan often attacks my friendships and
feeling like, the lies that comein, I should say are like, they
don't really like care aboutyou.
like you're not fun to be aroundbecause you're going through
these things.
Kimber (38:58):
right?
Rachael (38:59):
all sorts of things that like, are really awful and
untrue.
Kimber (39:03):
Yeah.
As I was preparing for aconversation, I was actually
thinking about that, like itjust.
It makes me so angry at how theenemy works because not only is
he out to like bring death tothis area of our lives?
Like, in our, childbearing, ifyou will, as part of the curse,
right?
(39:24):
But then he also uses that totry to bring death to our
relationships.
Like, I think of marriagesbroken from fertility
challenges, you know, from loss.
and then friendships, like aswe're talking about here, like,
whether it's throughawkwardness, like feeling like
you don't know how to approachit.
So you just don't and that,like, that breaks friendships.
(39:45):
It can.
Or through saying something, youknow.
that's not well thought through,or unkind and then not being
able to apologize or, you know,like, oh man, there's just so
many ways that I feel like he iscoming for our relationships to
just bring death and so it makesme angry and it makes me wanna
have these kind of conversationsbecause I'm like, we can grow in
(40:07):
this area.
You know?
Like we clearly do not havecontrol over much control over,
you know, what happens ingrowing a baby.
that's pretty much God'spurview.
But I do have, I do have someability to like, love my friends
better and to like work on mymarriage and, you know, and to
identify how I can be a goodfriend to someone and then, try
(40:30):
my best by the grace of God todo that.
And so, I love that you bringthat up because it's like, we
can't be unaware of his schemesin this area of our lives
because it will hurt yourfriendships if we don't
intentionally look at how are wehandling the fertility aspect of
our lives as women, it, it'llhurt'em.
(40:51):
It'll hurt'em.
Rachael (40:51):
Yeah.
I'm glad that you brought up themarriage piece, I mean, really
the most important piece in afertility journey.
I like in just thinking aboutthis topic and the loneliness
piece, and just in the last fewmonths, coming to realization
like the things that I have keptguarded and that I have like
(41:12):
chosen to isolate, like fromfriends and my husband.
Cause I didn't wanna burdenanyone else with like, what I
was feeling.
Um, in particular in that twoweek battle, we should call it,
not two week wait,
Kimber (41:28):
You know what?
I love that.
It's a thing.
Rachael (41:30):
Yes.
Yeah.
So in that two week battle,like.
If I'm like feeling particularlyhopeful in a day, like, oh my
gosh, like I think I might bepregnant.
Like, I have all these thingsthat I'm feeling.
I often don't wanna tell myhusband for a couple reasons,
first because if I am pregnant,I'd like to have the like
(41:50):
picture perfect surprise.
I'm pregnant moment,
Kimber (41:54):
That's another thing.
Infertility steals is the.
surprise we all know, we
Rachael (41:59):
it doesn't need to be a
Kimber (42:01):
Yeah.
But it's sweet.
I get it.
I get it.
Rachael (42:03):
yes.
Me too.
I do understand that.
Um, and the second thing waslike, I don't want my husband to
suffer.
Like I don't want him to like bein pain or like sometimes even
know my pain because that'spainful to him.
So like, I like expressed thisto him like a few months ago,
(42:25):
and I was like, I am not sharingall these things with you
because of these reasons.
And he is like, but we're onelike I am supposed to help you
carry your burdens and you'resupposed to help me carry mine.
And that was like reallyprofound truth to me in that
moment because I was avoidingthat.
(42:48):
I wa like, I was trying to takeit all on myself and in some
ways, like almost like a,self-righteous way.
Like I can figure it out.
Like I'll be okay if I'm theonly one that knows about it,
but I, but maybe these otherpeople won't be okay if they
know about it.
Kimber (43:05):
Hmm.
Rachael (43:06):
And there's a control piece too.
Like, I don't want my husband, Idon't want my friends to be
thinking I'm pregnant when I'mnot.
Like, I just wanna be thinkingthat because it's, it's hard
enough for me.
Kimber (43:18):
yeah.
Rachael (43:19):
but we're told like to carry one another's burdens and
weep when our brothers andsisters weep and rejoice when
they rejoice.
And that also reminds me oflike, if your friend is
struggling with infertility andyou get pregnant, I feel like
that's like a, an interestingspot to be in.
(43:40):
However, we're supposed like torejoice, like when our friends
are rejoicing and.
Like I read recently that like,your joys can be a balm for
someone else's sorrows.
And I thought that that was justso true and beautiful.
And even though your friendthat's struggling might need
(44:02):
more time to process and mightmy process in a different way
than your like, average personreceiving the news, it's also
just like really beautiful andwonderful, like when God ordas
that a life should begin and letalone the fact that like,
hopefully not, but likesomething could happen in the
pregnancy and as your friend,like, I want to be able to like
(44:26):
pray for this baby.
I want to be able to love you ifyou're not feeling well.
Like, I don't wanna just belooking in all the time,
although like my body and mythought life is like, Constantly
drawing me to just be looking inat my
Kimber (44:41):
Right?
Rachael (44:42):
stuff.
Kimber (44:42):
hmm.
And with the idea of likeloneliness and isolation, like
that's what the enemy wants.
Like he wants you to just be,isolated and only in, in your
own world.
And it's like, I wouldn't blameyou for that, but What you're
saying, like, I agree and Ithink it's scripture's pretty
clear.
Like that's not when we're atour healthiest, when we're only
worrying about our own, trials.
(45:05):
And it's so hard.
But I think you're right, thatlike looking for those
opportunities to like lookoutside of our own situations
can be a balm.
I love that.
Like it can be a way to see howGod is working in the world, not
just in my life.
And I think that can be a sourceof hope too, even if it is kind
(45:25):
of messy to process and someconfliction in feelings about
that.
I think that's okay.
Um, yeah.
Hmm.
Man, Rachel, we could, we'vejust like, Ticked the surface.
Rachael (45:36):
my gosh.
So many layers to this
Kimber (45:39):
I like, man, we didn't even talk about half of the
things that I thought of.
And that's okay because, um,because it's okay.
And it's one of those thingsthat I think more than anything,
I would love this to be like astart to the conversations.
But like, these conversationsneed to happen, happen in living
rooms, you know, they need tohappen like on the couch with
(46:00):
your friend who's walkingthrough it or among your small
group who's supporting a friendin that situation.
Because like we've said, sonuanced and it's so different
for everyone.
And, at the end of the day, Ithink my biggest takeaway from
this conversation is just like,the enemy is trying to destroy
our relationships this avenuelife.
(46:24):
Really, I think it can alsothough, if we choose to, it can
be an opportunity to justembrace our dependence on God.
Both for like my sisters walkingthrough this, you know, like you
were saying about how it'sforced you to really like, rely
on his presence and abide inhim.
And for are trying to be goodfriends to people walking
(46:44):
through this, like, no amount oftips and tricks are gonna help
us get it right.
Like the spirit of God, andrelying on him is the only thing
that's gonna help us get theseconversations right, because
they're, they're hard and, andyet they matter.
I think so.
Oh man.
I just, I'm really thankful thatwe could, that we could talk
today and, um, that you wouldshare your story with us.
(47:07):
I think it's gonna reallyencourage some friends listening
who, I know feel your pain, verytangibly.
And I appreciate also theinsight you gave for those of us
who are trying to learn and begood friends in this.
Rachael (47:21):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
And yeah, just thinking about jone of your questions, like
touched on, like what would yousay to someone that like is
going through this and I, oh mygosh.
like, I think what I just sawthat question, like tears came
to my eyes because I know thisis also for me.
(47:42):
but it's also important and Iwould want my friends to know
that I know that are goingthrough infertility, these
things.
And first like is that God is sogood and.
he knows you.
He knows your life.
He knew what would happen beforeyou were even born.
it's not a mistake and you arenot broken, even though it can
(48:06):
feel that way.
Um,
Kimber (48:08):
Mm
Rachael (48:09):
and that this life will not look like we often want it
to.
And this sadly is an area that,that our lives can look very
different from how we hope.
And there's real grief in that.
And it's okay to grieve thosethings, but we've got to fix our
eyes on Jesus and, and knowlike, even if I'm never pregnant
(48:33):
again for myself or even if Inever get pregnant, That there
are better things for us asGod's children who have been
redeemed by the blood of Jesus.
And, I, I wrote down this versefrom Revelation because this is
like when I was journaling oneday about just the grief for me
(48:53):
associated with these thingsthat came to mind.
And it's in Revelation 21, 4,talking about John's vision of
the new heaven and says he willwipe away every tear from their
eyes and death shall be no more.
Neither shall there be mourningnor crying, nor pain anymore for
(49:14):
the former things have passedaway.
So we have a hope that's not inthe things of this world and, as
beautiful as children are and asgood as they are, that God,
which.
Give them, um, there are betterthings, in eternity, and that's
hard to even think aboutsometimes, but it's true.
Kimber (49:37):
hmm.
I love that.
that idea of like, it's hard tothink about, but it's true.
Like those things are notmutually exclusive.
They can coexist and that is, Ifeel like just such a picture of
fertility journey you.
Things that are hard can coexistwith things that are true,
particularly when it comes tothe Lord, oh, Thank you so much,
(50:01):
friend.
Rachael (50:02):
Thank you.
I feel very honored to be a partof this conversation.
Kimber (50:07):
I'm really thankful for you.
Oh, well I love it.
So, um, as we wrap up, I wouldlove to hear, what, as we are
going into spring lights comingback, it's a little less cold.
Um, what are you looking forwardto with the, coming of spring,
that new life, right?
Like such a hopeful time.
What's, uh, what are you lookingforward to coming up?
Rachael (50:30):
Yeah, so I love this time of year and I love when
there's still snow too, which isnot every, everyone's feeling,
but like.
Currently, I'm looking forwardto like, when our back porch is
like clear of snow, so you cango out and like, have lunch, but
then the snow is still around,the like warmth of the sun, when
(50:53):
you go outside.
Those things are just, it's sowonderful and yeah,
Kimber (50:59):
I remember when we lived in North Pole a couple years
ago, I, we had this hammock,like they had these two sawd off
trees that you could have ahammock between.
And so I bought a hammock and Iput it out there.
I remember so distinctly onetime this time of year, I like
had my big old snow boots on andI tred through like the feet of
snow to lay on the hammock inthe sun because it was like,
(51:20):
it's so funny, the Alaskan sun,it's crazy to me always cuz it
makes you feel so warm and justlaying out there and there's
like snow, like brushing my buttbecause there's so, you know,
under the hammock kind of thing.
But, but it didn't matter.
It was so good.
Oh, I love that.
Well Rachel, thanks so much fortalking with us today.
I love you friend.
Rachael (51:40):
You're welcome.
I love you too.
Kimber (51:47):
Friends.
I'm so glad you could joinRachel and I this week on the,
your sister Kimber podcast.
if a challenging fertilityjourney has been part of your
story, I just want to say thankyou so much for sharing this
conversation with me today.
I hope it encourages you to keeppressing on along this difficult
road.
And if you aren't walking thishard journey, personally,
(52:09):
friend, I am praying for youtoday.
As you love on your friend, whois.
How we love our friends throughtheir darkest days matters so
much.
And I think it is such animportant way to image Jesus to
those in our lives.
So keep fighting that fight.
Alongside them.
And if we're thinking reallypractical for blessing friends
on this hard journey, By newdigital resource might be just
(52:32):
the tool that you need to getthose details.
It's called 20 facts to knowabout your friends.
And these are the kinds ofthings that are just going to
give you the fodder to likebless and love on them in
tangible ways.
It's a free PDF.
You can download and eitherprint, or you can just text it
to a friend to fill out for you,then save those ideas in your
phone, under their contact cardfor when you need it.
(52:54):
You can get this resource on mywebsite, which is linked in the
description of this episode.
And if you haven't yet joined mynewsletter crew, will you visit
your sister kimber.com tosubscribe?
When you subscribe, you get myweekly newsletter directly to
your email inbox, with a previewof what will be featured on the
podcast that week.
Plus a link to this month's blogpost, and some other resources
(53:14):
tips to help you growfriendships that honor God and
draw you closer to Jesus.
And thank you so much for beingpart of this community friends
until next time.
It's your sister Kimber.
Hey friends.
Welcome to the, your sisterKimber podcast.
My name is Kimberly Gilbert, andI'm so glad you're here.
It's my honor today to betalking with my friend, Rachel
Correa, about a part of each ofour journeys that.
Affects so many of us today,we're talking about how
loneliness comes for us on ourjourneys through fertility and
the challenges that we face whengrowing a family isn't as easy
(00:32):
as we assumed it would be.
In fertility miscarriage, birthtrauma, infant loss.
There is so much pain inchildbearing.
And I'm not talking aboutliteral labor pains here.
We feel this aspect of the curseof sin so heavily, I think.
And whether it's part of yourstory or you're walking it with
a friend.
This road is perhaps one of thehardest that we will traverse in
(00:56):
this life.
And friend, I don't want you towalk it alone any longer.
If this is part of your story, Iam so honored that you would
join us for this talk today.
I'm praying.
It helps you remember that youare seen and loved and treasured
by your friends.
And most importantly, by theLord.
And if this isn't part of yourstory friends, we need to lean
(01:18):
in here and learn.
Our sisters need us in thisfight.
I wish we could talk this out,looking at each other eye to eye
with a warm mug of coffee in ourhands, but this is the next best
thing.
I'm so glad you're here, friend.
Let's get started.
Rachael (01:38):
Hi.
Kimber (01:38):
Hey, how are you doing today?
How's your day been?
Rachael (01:41):
It's been good.
I've been nervous and justpitting this conversation, but
it's been a good day.
we got some things done and soit's always feels good to make
progress
Kimber (01:53):
Absolutely.
Why don't you go ahead andintroduce yourself to our
friends listening, so they kindof know what your, what your
days look like right now.
Rachael (02:00):
my name's Rachel Coria.
I, right now I'm a stay-at-homemom.
so most of my days kind ofrevolve around like, doing
things with my daughter and justtry to keep the house, in
somewhat of a livable mandstate.
but I've also, so I also teachonce a week, uh, Spanish for
(02:23):
kids, that are doing homeschoolclasses.
Kimber (02:25):
Yeah.
Rachael (02:26):
And then I also recently started a job as a
community administrator, whichis very, very part-time.
It doesn't sound part-time, Idon't
Kimber (02:36):
It sounds pretty intense.
Yeah.
Rachael (02:37):
it's for, o pairs that are like coming in from other
countries and they s.
Live in a home and they nannythe children
Kimber (02:45):
Yeah.
Rachael (02:46):
in the home with.
And so I just have one, a pairthat I'm working with in one
family, so it's
Kimber (02:52):
Cool.
Rachael (02:53):
maybe like seven hours a month.
So again, my day-to-day is verymuch just like life and trying
to figure that out.
Kimber (03:03):
absolutely.
Friends listening, if you havebeen listening to the podcast
for very long, you have probablyheard about Rachel because you
were just a really formativefriend for me in the time when
we were in Fairbanks.
we sort of became friends out ofa really difficult like
friendship loss season for me.
And I think that a lot of thatsort of funneled into me
(03:26):
starting, you know, my writingand stuff and podcasting with
your sister Kimber.
And so I feel like I end up kindof talking about you often which
is so cool.
You guys just were such you sogenerously embraced us, I feel
like, when we needed people.
And so I feel like, it's really,it's fun to be able to talk to
you today because I feel likeI've talked about you some, um,
(03:49):
in a little bit more abstractway around here before.
But, um, we got to spend lots ofgood afternoons, just like doing
the toddler lunch situationthing.
And then we would put the kidsdown to nav and we got to do
some Bible study.
Just hangout time.
And those were such sweet timesfor me.
I loved that.
It was
Rachael (04:09):
Yeah, I, I appreciate that.
And it was a very interestingtime for me too, because I think
right before, like we startedhanging out more, the Lord was
really showing to me like, youneed to pour into different
people.
Because I've lived in Fairbankspractically my whole life.
And so I, there's a lot ofpeople I, I know and it can be
(04:31):
hard to know like who to pourinto.
Kimber (04:34):
Yeah.
Rachael (04:34):
but it was specifically a time that like the doors were
open to like, yes, like pursuenew people and pursue them.
not neglecting your otherrelationships, but you might be
spending more time with newpeople, which is very
interesting.
Kimber (04:50):
it is.
yeah, it's, it's foreign to meto think about living in the
same place my whole life, youknow?
And like, or at least most ofit.
And having like, your friendshipstill ebb and flow, right?
Like it's, those dynamics stillchange.
But for me, those dynamicchanges have always happened in
conjunction, or often havehappened in conjunction with
(05:12):
also moving location.
And so I feel like it's easy tolike blame those kind of things
on the changes of location or,you know, jobs or, or whatever.
but I feel like they happenanyway.
Right.
Like what has been a good sideof like always living in the
same place friendship-wise andwhat has been like a more
challenging side of it, wouldyou say?
Rachael (05:33):
Yeah.
I would say one of the bestthings is like having history
with people that, like I havefriends that I'm 36 now, that I
was friends with, in my earlytwenties and maybe a little bit
before that.
And so there's a lot ofsweetness in that.
And then experiencing lifestages, together.
(05:57):
the challenge there is like inthe opening up your like world
to like, we live in a, amilitary town, so like people
that are in the military that,you know, won't be there for
very long.
So you know that You desire,like the same sort of depth of
relationship that you have withother people, but you know, like
(06:17):
this is probably just gonna befor a time and, and that's very
challenging.
but so good too.
Um, it's really good to like beopen to those new relationships
and to grow and be willing tolike, at times focus more on
those relationships, which feelsodd in some ways to be like, we
(06:40):
can't just like pour intoeveryone at all times,
Kimber (06:43):
That's so true though.
It's so true.
There's like a certain capacityonly.
I love that you said that, likeyou felt like the Lord is kind
of pushing you in thatdirection, like cuz I think we
can like ask God, like, what doyou have for me in the area of
friendship right now and stuff.
And I think that's not maybe onethat we a lot of times think
about, talking to God about.
At least I, I don't think that Ihave historically thought about
(07:05):
that a lot.
You know, you think about maybelike in your marriage, if you're
married or you think about, youknow, family or, you know, what
should I do is my job next or,you know, something.
But I, I think that's reallycool to like ask him and seek
what do you have for me in thearea of friendship right now?
And then was that like sort of achallenge to you?
Was that like a out of yourcomfort zone kind of call?
Or was it just a shift?
Rachael (07:26):
it's, it's always sort of like an out of my comfort
zone thing, because like themore comfortable thing is to
just stick with the people thatlike, I know that when I like
hang out with them, like I knowwhat to expect.
I know probably theconversations we'll have, which
there can be good and bad there.
Kimber (07:45):
Sure
Rachael (07:45):
fall into a rut with your friends that you've known
forever.
but yeah, at the same time, likefeel like the Lord was really
showing to me like there is aneed where you are for people
who need depth of a relationshipthat don't currently have
avenues for that.
And
Kimber (08:06):
He was talking about me, Rachel
Rachael (08:09):
Yeah.
Maybe.
Kimber (08:10):
No, not only me, I'm sure, but I was one of those.
Yes, yes.
Rachael (08:15):
Yeah.
And calling like the call tostep out of like the place where
I felt very comfortable and thenI had grown in, into like a new.
Place is very uncomfortable.
Kimber (08:27):
Totally.
Mm.
Rachael (08:29):
like, it's like one of those things when the Lord, like
more and more you can feel thepressure to like do what you're
supposed to do
Kimber (08:36):
Yeah.
Rachael (08:37):
And it was like, okay, God, like you've been telling me
this.
And now it's just time to like,not cut ties completely, but
like cut some of the like tiesthe weekly meetings sort of
things that we are doing with,with other relationships and
then Make room.
for new people, which
Kimber (08:55):
so cool.
Well, I know I was blessed byyour obedience there, which is
cool to like see the, I don'tknow, it's cool to see like the
hindsight of that and like hearthat.
That's one reason I love havingthese conversations, especially
with people that, like I'veknown for a while because I feel
like these kind of things alwayscome up and it's like you get to
look back and you get to seelike where they were at and like
how you like answered eachother's prayer requests or like
(09:19):
how someone was there f like, Idon't know.
It's just, it's really cool.
So, ugh.
I love hearing that.
Well, you know, today this isprobably kind of one of those
those moments as well because,I'm really honored that you
would have this conversationwith me today because it's
definitely one that, as I wasthinking about this loneliness
series that we've been in, thatI was like, ah, we gotta talk
about the struggles thatsurround just.
(09:41):
our lives as women in generalbecause fertility, infertility,
miscarriage, like all the thingsthat surround the complexities
of having babies, you know, justwe can big umbrella that it's
all so complex.
And I feel like I wasn'tprepared for it.
(10:02):
coming into adulthood.
Like, I felt like it was just agiven.
Like, you know, if you wannahave kids, you can have kids.
And if you don't, you don'tlike, oh man.
But like it's, there's so muchmore, there's so much more
there.
And so just in like the past, Imean maybe like five years as I
feel like for me, just where I'mat in life, when this started
(10:22):
becoming just like such a burdenon my heart because I'm just, it
affects every corner of ourrelationships as women, I feel
like, in one way or another.
And talking about lonelinessspecifically, I'm like, man,
there's so much that I thinkcomes from this.
Like whether it's, you know, afriend who's walking through
miscarriage and like that is alonely grief in many ways, which
(10:48):
we'll get into here, you know?
And, infertility, several of myvery close friends are walking
through that as well, and it'slike, how do I love them?
Well through that, you know, nothaving walked through it myself
you know, and then there's thecomplexities of do you wanna
have kids?
When do you wanna have kids?
Like, it is an inherentlyisolating journey, I feel like,
(11:08):
because of how, like, privacyand, you know, just our culture,
um, how it interacts with this.
And so, I was like, man, wegotta talk about this.
But it's a big thing and it's anuanced subject.
Yeah.
And so I am really thankful toyou for at least like,
scratching the surface of itwith me today.
(11:29):
And, um, just sharing a littlebit about your story with it as
well.
Do you feel like when you likecame into adulthood, were you
like aware of just the strugglesurrounding like bearing
children?
You know, it's like in Genesis,in the, the curse we hear like
pain and childbirth, but it'snot like labor pains.
(11:50):
Like, yes, there's that, butit's like struggle around the
idea, the whole encompassingthing of like having children is
gonna be, there's gonna bestruggle there.
And I'm like, yep, I see it now.
But I wasn't prepared for that.
Do you feel like you were goinginto adulthood or was this kind
of something that came on yousuddenly
Rachael (12:09):
I would say that I relate to a lot in the sense
that I also thought that like,okay, like having kids, like
planning that out, that's all agiven.
Like, that's exactly like thethought process.
And so a lot of like, my currentjourney also is reflecting on
those things that I thought werejust going to happen and kind of
(12:32):
grieving that the realitydoesn't look like I had
expected.
And I come from a large family,there's six of us children and
we're all pretty much two yearsapart.
So there's like some of thatthat's like ingrained in me that
like,
Kimber (12:48):
the way it
Rachael (12:49):
it's, it's not hard to have children or something.
Kimber (12:53):
right.
Sometimes I joke with myfriends, it's like, you know, we
grew up, I think being so like,like be careful.
Like, you know, like stay away.
You know?
And then it's like you actuallylearn about how everything that
has to happen to actually likecreate a baby I mean,
Rachael (13:10):
It's a miracle.
It really is.
A
Kimber (13:12):
yes.
And when you come face to face,I think with like that struggle
in either your own life or thelife of a friend, even more so,
it's completely miraculous andyet Yeah.
It, it's so often doesn't seemthat way, you know?
Rachael (13:25):
exactly.
I think it's also painted in away like by society like that we
get to choose like in current.
Age, like we have a lot ofchoices if it comes to like
choosing birth control or evenjust like choosing to like
follow your cycles naturally.
Like there's so much informationand there's so many options that
(13:48):
it feels like you can controlit,
Kimber (13:51):
it gives the illusion of control.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Rachael (13:55):
Yeah.
Kimber (13:55):
so true.
Well, I'm excited to, to hearfrom your perspective on this,
because it seems so pervasive,at least in like, my situation
in life right now.
I'm like so many people that Iknow are touched by this,
whether they're experiencing itor they have a close friend
that's walking through it.
And so, I just, I think we needto talk about it more and I'm,
I'm really thankful that, it isgetting talked about more, just
(14:19):
like the struggles of it and howwe can be good friends to each
other as we're walking throughthat.
So thank you for, for beingwilling to today.
Maybe we can kind of start withjust how has, fertility
challenges in general.
Has this touched your story?
And, um, where, where are youcoming from as you come to this
convers.
Rachael (14:40):
Yeah.
you know, there's the long storyand then the shorter immigration
of it, but I think I'll try toland somewhere in the middle.
Kimber (14:48):
Yeah.
Rachael (14:49):
so from the planning side of things, like my husband
and I got married we kind ofdecided we both wanted to be
done with school for the mostpart.
Like, and then we would starttrying and we got married
around, we were 27, 28, and sowe were looking at like early
thirties.
(15:09):
All right.
That will be the time.
Kimber (15:11):
Yeah,
Rachael (15:12):
Year four of marriage hit which is also like about
four years ago now.
So a little over four years, welike started the process of
trying to ha like start ourfamily and grow our family, all
those things.
And miraculously we got pregnantright away and, I was not
(15:33):
expecting that necessarily, butit happened.
And we went in for our firstappointment at about, six weeks.
And the, yeah, the midwife wasvery quiet during that
ultrasound and afterwards sheexplained to us something that I
was kind of confusing at thetime, but it was like, okay,
(15:55):
like it's very likely you'regonna miscarry this baby.
And,
Kimber (15:59):
gosh.
So you had not at that point.
Rachael (16:02):
Yeah, I hadn't yet.
there was no, like, heartbeatdetected, but, um, what she was
saying was like, blood workneeded to be done to confirm
that it was like this pregnancywould end with me miscarrying.
Kimber (16:17):
Oh man.
Rachael (16:17):
and we had already told a lot of people, and so when we
left, like one of the firstthings I told my husband was
like, why did we tell so manypeople?
because I didn't wanna have tolike relive the grief I was
feeling, like I wanted to justhold up and be by myself and cry
(16:40):
and grieve and all those things.
and.
Yeah.
So blood work later in that weekconfirmed that we were gonna
miscarry and, and then we did afew weeks later and the process
of all that was pretty awful.
Um,
Kimber (16:58):
I mean, the waiting for that seems to me like it would
be really unbearable.
Rachael (17:03):
yes, yeah, I mean, I was teaching at the time and I,
so I had, we had decided not tohave the miscarriage like
induced or like any of thosethings.
partly because like I washanging on to
Kimber (17:19):
Mm-hmm.
Rachael (17:20):
what if they're wrong, you know, or
Kimber (17:22):
Yeah, Yeah,
Rachael (17:23):
and so it was just a really awful time.
And because we had told a lot ofpeople, we had to tell a lot of
people that we were miscarryingour baby too, and.
To be honest, like I was in suchgrief that there were people
that I hadn't told yet that,like the day that I found out I
was in like a church class and Ileft to talk to the doctor, and
(17:50):
a friend was like coming out andI was just like, she came up,
she could tell something waswrong.
She gave me a huge hug and Iburst into tears and I told her
that.
So I was pregnant.
I'm miscarrying this, this baby.
And it was a friend that hadbeen struggling with infertility
for years.
So it was very like, kind ofstrange that like the person God
(18:12):
gave me in that moment tocomfort me was someone that had
been wanting a baby for so long
Kimber (18:18):
Hmm.
Rachael (18:19):
and, so we were loved so well by God in, in those like
subsequent days because, becausewe had let people in.
Kimber (18:31):
hmm.
Right.
Rachael (18:32):
and there were a few things that like, were just
reinforced to me about God, likein those early days and then
like subsequent months as wellwas just like, okay, like God is
sovereign and he is good, he'sgood.
And so like, it did not make anysense at all.
(18:53):
Like why?
We would get pregnant with thisbaby and then never be able to
hold him or her.
And none of that made sense.
But like, God loved us throughhis children and people brought
us meals and came to hang outwith us.
(19:14):
And I remember one friendspecifically coming to my door
and just, she's like, I can justdrop things off.
And like, she burst into tears.
She's like, I'm sorry that I'mthe one crying.
And I'm like, but it felt sogood to me to have
Kimber (19:28):
Hmm.
Rachael (19:29):
my grief validated that she was grieving with me.
Kimber (19:33):
yeah,
Rachael (19:34):
so those early days were just really hard, but also
sweet and how, we were loved inthose moments.
Kimber (19:42):
That's something that, that last bit that you shared
about like your friend,apologizing for like, I'm sorry,
I'm the one man.
I like really resonate with thatbecause in my relationships
where friends are walkingthrough hard.
Moments, some with infertility,um, a few with miscarriages.
It's like, I don't wanna be aburden, you know?
(20:05):
Like, I don't want you to feellike you have to take care of me
you know, like I never want myfriend to feel like she has to
say like, it's okay orsomething, or like to me inre,
but I think that I expressedthat tension the other day to, a
group of ladies that I wasprocessing some things with.
(20:25):
and one of the gals said thatsimilar thing.
She was like, I don't know whatyour friend's like, but when
I've been in that situation, shewas like, honestly, like seeing
a friend grieve authenticallywith me.
it made me feel like I wasn'talone and like, you know, it
validated it, like you said,which that is kind of a shift to
(20:46):
me, and I feel like it's givenme some permission to like
express some of those aspects oflike how this grieves my heart,
which is not in any waycomparable.
to, you know, the actual mother,but like, still is like, it's
okay to show that, you know, isdo you think there's like a way
that's makes it not okay or doesit depend on your relationship?
(21:07):
Like, do you know what I mean?
Is there like anything we shouldcaution ourselves against as
like, friends trying to lovesomeone in that moment,
Rachael (21:16):
yeah, I would say, it's hard because, I do think that
like women in that positionreally process differently.
Kimber (21:25):
Yeah, that's so true.
and it can look so different foreveryone's situation is so
different too.
Rachael (21:31):
yeah.
But I do think like the depth ofyour relationship with that
person does count.
and I do think sometimes thingsaren't received well in the
moment and later can beappreciated.
and.
Used to be more slow to likereach out to people that I knew
were grieving because I didn'tknow how to meet them in their
(21:54):
grief.
But I would say now that I'vehad different moments in life
that like were intense griefmoments,
Kimber (22:02):
Mm-hmm.
Rachael (22:03):
I remember what people specifically did for me that
were helpful and I try to dothat for other people.
if you are like, unsure of whatbe helpful, I'd say ask your
friend and, rather than havinglike a blanket question, like is
there anything I can do to help?
(22:23):
Which a person who's grieving, Igrieving, I think often doesn't
Kimber (22:28):
Doesn't know.
Yeah, a hundred
Rachael (22:30):
But if you were to like offer like, hey, like can I
bring you a meal or come and doyour dishes, or just sit with
you and have tea?
Like, do any of these sound goodto you?
Kimber (22:43):
A, B, or C
Rachael (22:45):
Yeah.
And maybe, maybe none of thosesound good, but it, I think that
gives your friend theopportunity to be like yes or
no.
Um, and they kind of be at thewheel of like letting you
comfort them or not.
Kimber (23:01):
I love that
Rachael (23:01):
maybe if you're being hit like super hard by what
they're going through, maybethere's like a balance of like
not being hysterical, like whenyou're with them, but like,
maybe just like having processedand prayed through things before
you meet them.
I think that helps.
you're right, like you don'twanna like further burden your
(23:22):
friend.
Kimber (23:22):
right.
It feels like a balance.
Rachael (23:24):
it is.
Yeah.
Kimber (23:26):
I, I also appreciate what you said about the, like,
depth of friendship because, youknow, I, I think it's important
to remember that like, we aren'teveryone's best friend and we
don't need to be so like, Justbecause we know about something
doesn't necessarily mean that,we're needed to be like in the
closest, care circle for that.
So I think really likeevaluating that maybe like your
(23:49):
motives with like an honestheart.
Like, if I'm like authenticallyfeeling grief here and I feel
like that is something that, I'msharing with like a best closest
friend Yeah.
That seems like the mostauthentic response.
But if it's more like, oh, Ijust like feel bad for them, you
know, I think there's differencethere.
And I think, like you said,processing that with someone
(24:12):
else even could help you figureout that, that kind of thing.
Like the specific I'm talkingabout.
Like I got to talk about thatwith my Bible study, who like my
friend is not in that.
So it was like a space where Icould process that with people
who, you know, love the Lordwere safe, and could gimme some
wisdom, they weren't in thatsituation themselves.
(24:32):
And so, um, I think that couldbe a really, a really helpful
thing too, is like to know thatwe don't only have to like be
with the person in that, butthat can help us get to a place
where we can, I don't know, makesure, just check our motives and
our heart a little bit.
Rachael (24:46):
Yeah.
I think that's good.
Kimber (24:52):
Hey friend, forgive me for taking a quick moment in
this conversation to ask a favorof you.
I hope my conversation withRachel is blessing you today.
And if so, would you just take amoment to rate and review the
show on apple podcasts?
Reviews are huge and helping newfriends find the show and
bonuses.
I do love reading.
What is blessing you from eachof the episodes, You can find
(25:14):
the link to leave a review inthe description of this episode.
So, thanks so much for taking asecond to do that.
Okay.
Now back to the shell.
So how did this continue in yourlife?
Um, where did it go?
From here?
Rachael (25:32):
So we, what we were living at was like, all right,
we wanted to start trying againto have another baby.
And there's a lot of conflictingemotions after having a
miscarriage pregnant.
Kimber (25:49):
Mm, yes.
Mm-hmm.
Rachael (25:52):
And then like, what if I get pregnant again and
miscarry again and all thesefears, but still really, really
hoping that you'll get pregnant.
So, we tried almost a year, Ithink, when I got pregnant with
my daughter, so, so yeah, Icarried her full term
Kimber (26:11):
Mm-hmm.
and she's wonderful.
Rachael (26:13):
she is really great.
I really love her
Kimber (26:16):
Hmm.
Rachael (26:17):
yeah, so that kind of like puts a pause on like a
fertility journey cuz it's likethis moment of like, okay, like
God gave us a child.
Like this is wonderful andbeautiful and like, She probably
wouldn't be if we didn'tmiscarry the first, which is
Kimber (26:36):
that's a whole thing.
Rachael (26:38):
beautiful and awful
Kimber (26:40):
Yep.
Rachael (26:40):
about.
And so somewhere like along thefirst year of her life we
decided like, okay, when sheturns one, we're gonna start
trying again.
and we still haven't gottenpregnant and it's been, like a
year and a half of like tryingafter that, so, because I'm 36,
so I think when they say you're,if you're 35 or older, like
(27:04):
after trying six months, go getthings checked out.
Kimber (27:08):
Okay.
Rachael (27:08):
so that was kind of in the back of my head.
And, six months hit andsomething really weird kind of
happened, I.
Took some pregnancy testsbecause it was like a longer
cycle.
My cycle kind of
Kimber (27:21):
Uhhuh.
Yeah.
Rachael (27:23):
and I saw two lines, and it was, the second one was
very faint.
And then the next day, the samething happened.
And like, I announced to myhusband that we were pregnant,
all these things.
And then I sent a picture of itto my sister because there was
like a little bit of doubt inthe back of my head because it
(27:46):
was so faint.
And she's like, Rachel, I, Idon't see a second line.
And it was like awful and weirdand like devastating.
Like, because I had alreadystarted like counting on this,
like I don't know what to callit, like, um, Non-existent
pregnancy that I thought wasreal.
Kimber (28:07):
Well just, yeah.
That what you thought?
Yeah.
Rachael (28:11):
And our minds can play terrible tricks on us.
I, I think legitimately that'swhat happened and it almost
feels embarrassing, like tothink about that time because I
was like so deceived in my ownhead, you know?
Kimber (28:28):
I mean, it's like, this is, to me, one of the struggles
of, you know, walking aninfertility journey, to me that
seems so challenging is it's solike, pervasive in your life.
Like it's, everything is wrappedup in it that like, you know,
you're hoping for something sointently always, because it's
like either you're in, you know,the week of like, you're trying
(28:51):
to, you know, make that happenor, and you know, not mess up
your days or whatever, like, oryou're waiting for those two
weeks or you're in a week ofdisappointment.
Like it's always.
Present.
And so the fact that you wouldExperience that, that doesn't
seem crazy to me at all.
And I don't think it should beembarrassing because like, I
(29:13):
actually have a friend who didthe same thing actually.
And, and it almost seems likejust, it seems like a cruel
trick of the enemy.
Those kind of like hopefulmoments when it's like you think
something and then it just,nope.
And it's just like, ugh.
And then it's that over and overand over month after month.
(29:33):
Like what seems to me like itcan become so devastating it's
like how do you get your hopesup over and over and deal with
the disappointment?
what has that rollercoaster, ifyou will, looked like for you?
Rachael (29:48):
Yeah.
I think this is an area that Ihope there's been growth in.
Um, yeah, it's hard, especiallylike, uh, those about two weeks,
like after ovulation when you'rejust like waiting and I've never
been more aware of my body andall the different like, feelings
(30:09):
that happen like throughout themonth and.
Kimber (30:13):
pain here.
Is that good?
Oh, I feel sick.
Or did I eat a bad sandwich?
Like, yeah, you're, and you'reoverthinking constantly, I
Rachael (30:21):
Yep.
Yeah, there have been a numberof times that I have felt
nauseous.
There have been times that I'vefelt like the metal mouth
sensation, like
Kimber (30:30):
Yeah.
Rachael (30:31):
weird, like shortness of breath, like all these like
weird things that, can often belabeled as like early pregnancy.
but I think the, like growth inthis area is for me has been
realizing like what a battlethose two weeks are and trying
to anticipate the battle beforeit comes.
(30:52):
Um, because oftentimes, thereare gonna be aspects of the
cycle that I feel caught offguard by.
and even in entering the battleas far as like my thought life
and, um, trying to stay presentand
Kimber (31:08):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Rachael (31:09):
it's just easy to like from one day to the next.
have your thoughts shift or youland more on the, like, like
hoping so much that you'rethinking ahead, like planning
and then, or like feeling likenot hopeful at all, so again, I
(31:31):
think the growth there has beenlike, The Lord has really been
reinforcing to me that I justneed to abide in him.
because I've never felt sounstable, like in my emotions
and thought life as in thisfertility journey, and it really
highlights my need to like, forremain in the Lord.
(31:54):
because I, I know that when I amlike with him and praying and
spending time in his word andgiving up a thought when it
comes to my head, giving that upto the Lord and being like,
okay, God, I know first of allthat, you know, like I have this
twinge in my side and it'smaking me think that I might be
pregnant.
(32:15):
But like, I can be okay notknowing because you know, I will
eventually know, but for now, Idon't know.
And that's okay.
and oftentimes he just shows melike the beautiful things about
that day.
so it is a very strange thing,but it's being willing to enter
the battle and know that it'scoming potentially, and, and not
(32:40):
being apathetic to, to, stallthe feelings.
because there are times in that.
In those two weeks that I like,I know that I need to go to the
Lord with how I'm feeling and Idon't want to, because I think
we forget what his rest and hispeace feels like and how that is
so much better than anythingelse that we can think or feel.
Kimber (33:03):
Yeah, because it's like this goal, the have a baby, like
that's the goal.
And I think sometimes when thegoal is so big, it's like,
Drowns everything else out.
Which it's not a bad goal, ofcourse, you know, like it's
good.
But yeah, I love that of like,rest, his rest and his presence
being the like, best thing inthe midst of all that.
(33:25):
Hmm.
You're, as you said, that like,um, it can shift from day to
day.
you know, it's not like, oh, mytwo week wait is always this
way, Like, definitely not right?
It's like, you know, some daysare hopeful, some days are.
Devastating and frustrating, I'msure.
Like, how do you think, how haveyou seen maybe, through your own
(33:48):
experience or, you know, ineven, I don't know if you've
walked through this with otherfriends too, you know, how can
we, like, love our friends well,an infertility journey.
Like what are some things thatyou have seen friends do that
have made you feel really lovedand that, have been really
helpful and what are, you know,if there's anything that comes
to mind that like we really needto stop doing or that just is
(34:11):
not gonna bring life to ourfriend who's walking through
this kind of a season, do youthink, and I know it's one
perspective, but I think it'sgood to like hear this kind of
thing.
Rachael (34:21):
Yeah, I appreciate that because like, you always wanna
consider the friend that isexperiencing it and know them,
to know what helpful is nothelpful, but yes.
I think there are some thingsthat can translate from one
experience to the next.
Um, I would say currently what'sbeen most helpful is I have a
(34:42):
few friends that I don't know ifthey just like remember off the
top of their head or if they'relike putting it in their
calendar, but like they have ageneral sense of like, like my
cycle and like when it's ending.
Like sometimes like even whenI'm ovulating, like those sort
of things.
Kimber (35:00):
You're Like how do you know this?
Rachael (35:02):
Yeah.
It's pretty, it's awesome.
Um, and particularly like comingto the end of a cycle, like I
think they're pretty good aboutnot day one being like, Hey,
how's it going?
But like a few days in like,just checking up on me because
they've anticipated be a hardtime
Kimber (35:23):
yeah,
Rachael (35:23):
So I think that has been like very helpful to me.
I think also just praying forour friends that are.
In these situations, becausepraise God that you don't know
like exactly what it is thatthey're like feeling and going
through.
but through prayer, our love forpeople grows and our
(35:44):
thoughtfulness of that persongrows.
And when I'm praying forsomeone, I'm much more willing
to send them a text or connectwith them in some way.
so I think that's like primary.
Um,
Kimber (35:58):
I love the encouragement to pray for them.
That's so, that's so goodbecause it's like, I think we
can pray for the situation, butI think even expanding that
prayer to like praying for theirheart, not just like the outcome
we want and stuff.
And, but then also like askingGod to like grow our capacity as
friends for them specifically inthis moment.
(36:20):
you know, especially if this islike a new situation that you're
coming to and like, if someonehas never, if you've never
walked through that or you know,you've never had a friend who
has walked through that, like,we can ask God to give us
wisdom.
Right.
And he can like grow ourcapacity to be a good friend in
that situation.
I think so.
I love that reminder.
Rachael (36:38):
yeah,
Kimber (36:39):
beautiful.
Rachael (36:39):
And it's huge like when your friends aren't going
through the same things, to knowthat they are like, at least
like thoughtful of that you aregoing through those things, and
particularly in likeinfertility.
Probably because it's somethingthat's I am always aware of.
and as a friend you don't haveto always be aware.
Kimber (37:01):
Mm-hmm.
Rachael (37:02):
but knowing that, you thought of me in a moment
Kimber (37:06):
Yeah.
Rachael (37:07):
is is very huge.
and on the like, other side,like things that aren't helpful,
first of all, I'm very thankfulfor my friends.
I think primarily they have justbeen helpful and a lot of the
like, horror stories of likeunhelpful things, like people
like, giving you informationabout like adoption or like
(37:29):
other avenues that as a personis.
Struggling with like, trying toget pregnant.
I'm aware of the
Kimber (37:37):
I'm very aware of the options.
Rachael (37:39):
and, and I've considered them.
Kimber (37:42):
Yeah.
Rachael (37:43):
and my prayer is that the Lord would lead me to those
things if I am supposed to endup there.
Um, so thankfully like thathasn't really happened too much
for me.
but I would say in particular,if your friend is sharing like
where they're at or what they'regoing through, or the last
doctor's appointments, know thatit's coming from a really
(38:05):
vulnerable place.
And so if the conversation getsinterrupted, like, and your
friend can't finish what they'resaying, that can be really
painful.
Kimber (38:15):
Yeah.
Rachael (38:16):
and not that we have to take out.
every interruption.
maybe going back to thatconversation later, or sending a
text and being like, I'm sorry,we were interrupted.
Like right as you were sharingthese things.
and reinforcing like your carefor them very important and very
sweet.
And I think for me, like in the,like isolation that happens in
(38:39):
my head with
Kimber (38:40):
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Rachael (38:42):
I feel like Satan often attacks my friendships and
feeling like, the lies that comein, I should say are like, they
don't really like care aboutyou.
like you're not fun to be aroundbecause you're going through
these things.
Kimber (38:58):
right?
Rachael (38:59):
all sorts of things that like, are really awful and
untrue.
Kimber (39:03):
Yeah.
As I was preparing for aconversation, I was actually
thinking about that, like itjust.
It makes me so angry at how theenemy works because not only is
he out to like bring death tothis area of our lives?
Like, in our, childbearing, ifyou will, as part of the curse,
right?
(39:24):
But then he also uses that totry to bring death to our
relationships.
Like, I think of marriagesbroken from fertility
challenges, you know, from loss.
and then friendships, like aswe're talking about here, like,
whether it's throughawkwardness, like feeling like
you don't know how to approachit.
So you just don't and that,like, that breaks friendships.
(39:45):
It can.
Or through saying something, youknow.
that's not well thought through,or unkind and then not being
able to apologize or, you know,like, oh man, there's just so
many ways that I feel like he iscoming for our relationships to
just bring death and so it makesme angry and it makes me wanna
have these kind of conversationsbecause I'm like, we can grow in
(40:07):
this area.
You know?
Like we clearly do not havecontrol over much control over,
you know, what happens ingrowing a baby.
that's pretty much God'spurview.
But I do have, I do have someability to like, love my friends
better and to like work on mymarriage and, you know, and to
identify how I can be a goodfriend to someone and then, try
(40:30):
my best by the grace of God todo that.
And so, I love that you bringthat up because it's like, we
can't be unaware of his schemesin this area of our lives
because it will hurt yourfriendships if we don't
intentionally look at how are wehandling the fertility aspect of
our lives as women, it, it'llhurt'em.
(40:51):
It'll hurt'em.
Rachael (40:51):
Yeah.
I'm glad that you brought up themarriage piece, I mean, really
the most important piece in afertility journey.
I like in just thinking aboutthis topic and the loneliness
piece, and just in the last fewmonths, coming to realization
like the things that I have keptguarded and that I have like
(41:12):
chosen to isolate, like fromfriends and my husband.
Cause I didn't wanna burdenanyone else with like, what I
was feeling.
Um, in particular in that twoweek battle, we should call it,
not two week wait,
Kimber (41:28):
You know what?
I love that.
It's a thing.
Rachael (41:30):
Yes.
Yeah.
So in that two week battle,like.
If I'm like feeling particularlyhopeful in a day, like, oh my
gosh, like I think I might bepregnant.
Like, I have all these thingsthat I'm feeling.
I often don't wanna tell myhusband for a couple reasons,
first because if I am pregnant,I'd like to have the like
(41:50):
picture perfect surprise.
I'm pregnant moment,
Kimber (41:54):
That's another thing.
Infertility steals is the.
surprise we all know, we
Rachael (41:59):
it doesn't need to be a
Kimber (42:01):
Yeah.
But it's sweet.
I get it.
I get it.
Rachael (42:03):
yes.
Me too.
I do understand that.
Um, and the second thing waslike, I don't want my husband to
suffer.
Like I don't want him to like bein pain or like sometimes even
know my pain because that'spainful to him.
So like, I like expressed thisto him like a few months ago,
(42:25):
and I was like, I am not sharingall these things with you
because of these reasons.
And he is like, but we're onelike I am supposed to help you
carry your burdens and you'resupposed to help me carry mine.
And that was like reallyprofound truth to me in that
moment because I was avoidingthat.
(42:48):
I wa like, I was trying to takeit all on myself and in some
ways, like almost like a,self-righteous way.
Like I can figure it out.
Like I'll be okay if I'm theonly one that knows about it,
but I, but maybe these otherpeople won't be okay if they
know about it.
Kimber (43:05):
Hmm.
Rachael (43:06):
And there's a control piece too.
Like, I don't want my husband, Idon't want my friends to be
thinking I'm pregnant when I'mnot.
Like, I just wanna be thinkingthat because it's, it's hard
enough for me.
Kimber (43:18):
yeah.
Rachael (43:19):
but we're told like to carry one another's burdens and
weep when our brothers andsisters weep and rejoice when
they rejoice.
And that also reminds me oflike, if your friend is
struggling with infertility andyou get pregnant, I feel like
that's like a, an interestingspot to be in.
(43:40):
However, we're supposed like torejoice, like when our friends
are rejoicing and.
Like I read recently that like,your joys can be a balm for
someone else's sorrows.
And I thought that that was justso true and beautiful.
And even though your friendthat's struggling might need
(44:02):
more time to process and mightmy process in a different way
than your like, average personreceiving the news, it's also
just like really beautiful andwonderful, like when God ordas
that a life should begin and letalone the fact that like,
hopefully not, but likesomething could happen in the
pregnancy and as your friend,like, I want to be able to like
(44:26):
pray for this baby.
I want to be able to love you ifyou're not feeling well.
Like, I don't wanna just belooking in all the time,
although like my body and mythought life is like, Constantly
drawing me to just be looking inat my
Kimber (44:41):
Right?
Rachael (44:42):
stuff.
Kimber (44:42):
hmm.
And with the idea of likeloneliness and isolation, like
that's what the enemy wants.
Like he wants you to just be,isolated and only in, in your
own world.
And it's like, I wouldn't blameyou for that, but What you're
saying, like, I agree and Ithink it's scripture's pretty
clear.
Like that's not when we're atour healthiest, when we're only
worrying about our own, trials.
(45:05):
And it's so hard.
But I think you're right, thatlike looking for those
opportunities to like lookoutside of our own situations
can be a balm.
I love that.
Like it can be a way to see howGod is working in the world, not
just in my life.
And I think that can be a sourceof hope too, even if it is kind
(45:25):
of messy to process and someconfliction in feelings about
that.
I think that's okay.
Um, yeah.
Hmm.
Man, Rachel, we could, we'vejust like, Ticked the surface.
Rachael (45:36):
my gosh.
So many layers to this
Kimber (45:39):
I like, man, we didn't even talk about half of the
things that I thought of.
And that's okay because, um,because it's okay.
And it's one of those thingsthat I think more than anything,
I would love this to be like astart to the conversations.
But like, these conversationsneed to happen, happen in living
rooms, you know, they need tohappen like on the couch with
(46:00):
your friend who's walkingthrough it or among your small
group who's supporting a friendin that situation.
Because like we've said, sonuanced and it's so different
for everyone.
And, at the end of the day, Ithink my biggest takeaway from
this conversation is just like,the enemy is trying to destroy
our relationships this avenuelife.
(46:24):
Really, I think it can alsothough, if we choose to, it can
be an opportunity to justembrace our dependence on God.
Both for like my sisters walkingthrough this, you know, like you
were saying about how it'sforced you to really like, rely
on his presence and abide inhim.
And for are trying to be goodfriends to people walking
(46:44):
through this, like, no amount oftips and tricks are gonna help
us get it right.
Like the spirit of God, andrelying on him is the only thing
that's gonna help us get theseconversations right, because
they're, they're hard and, andyet they matter.
I think so.
Oh man.
I just, I'm really thankful thatwe could, that we could talk
today and, um, that you wouldshare your story with us.
(47:07):
I think it's gonna reallyencourage some friends listening
who, I know feel your pain, verytangibly.
And I appreciate also theinsight you gave for those of us
who are trying to learn and begood friends in this.
Rachael (47:21):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
And yeah, just thinking about jone of your questions, like
touched on, like what would yousay to someone that like is
going through this and I, oh mygosh.
like, I think what I just sawthat question, like tears came
to my eyes because I know thisis also for me.
(47:42):
but it's also important and Iwould want my friends to know
that I know that are goingthrough infertility, these
things.
And first like is that God is sogood and.
he knows you.
He knows your life.
He knew what would happen beforeyou were even born.
it's not a mistake and you arenot broken, even though it can
(48:06):
feel that way.
Um,
Kimber (48:08):
Mm
Rachael (48:09):
and that this life will not look like we often want it
to.
And this sadly is an area that,that our lives can look very
different from how we hope.
And there's real grief in that.
And it's okay to grieve thosethings, but we've got to fix our
eyes on Jesus and, and knowlike, even if I'm never pregnant
(48:33):
again for myself or even if Inever get pregnant, That there
are better things for us asGod's children who have been
redeemed by the blood of Jesus.
And, I, I wrote down this versefrom Revelation because this is
like when I was journaling oneday about just the grief for me
(48:53):
associated with these thingsthat came to mind.
And it's in Revelation 21, 4,talking about John's vision of
the new heaven and says he willwipe away every tear from their
eyes and death shall be no more.
Neither shall there be mourningnor crying, nor pain anymore for
(49:14):
the former things have passedaway.
So we have a hope that's not inthe things of this world and, as
beautiful as children are and asgood as they are, that God,
which.
Give them, um, there are betterthings, in eternity, and that's
hard to even think aboutsometimes, but it's true.
Kimber (49:37):
hmm.
I love that.
that idea of like, it's hard tothink about, but it's true.
Like those things are notmutually exclusive.
They can coexist and that is, Ifeel like just such a picture of
fertility journey you.
Things that are hard can coexistwith things that are true,
particularly when it comes tothe Lord, oh, Thank you so much,
(50:01):
friend.
Rachael (50:02):
Thank you.
I feel very honored to be a partof this conversation.
Kimber (50:07):
I'm really thankful for you.
Oh, well I love it.
So, um, as we wrap up, I wouldlove to hear, what, as we are
going into spring lights comingback, it's a little less cold.
Um, what are you looking forwardto with the, coming of spring,
that new life, right?
Like such a hopeful time.
What's, uh, what are you lookingforward to coming up?
Rachael (50:30):
Yeah, so I love this time of year and I love when
there's still snow too, which isnot every, everyone's feeling,
but like.
Currently, I'm looking forwardto like, when our back porch is
like clear of snow, so you cango out and like, have lunch, but
then the snow is still around,the like warmth of the sun, when
(50:53):
you go outside.
Those things are just, it's sowonderful and yeah,
Kimber (50:59):
I remember when we lived in North Pole a couple years
ago, I, we had this hammock,like they had these two sawd off
trees that you could have ahammock between.
And so I bought a hammock and Iput it out there.
I remember so distinctly onetime this time of year, I like
had my big old snow boots on andI tred through like the feet of
snow to lay on the hammock inthe sun because it was like,
(51:20):
it's so funny, the Alaskan sun,it's crazy to me always cuz it
makes you feel so warm and justlaying out there and there's
like snow, like brushing my buttbecause there's so, you know,
under the hammock kind of thing.
But, but it didn't matter.
It was so good.
Oh, I love that.
Well Rachel, thanks so much fortalking with us today.
I love you friend.
Rachael (51:40):
You're welcome.
I love you too.
Kimber (51:47):
Friends.
I'm so glad you could joinRachel and I this week on the,
your sister Kimber podcast.
if a challenging fertilityjourney has been part of your
story, I just want to say thankyou so much for sharing this
conversation with me today.
I hope it encourages you to keeppressing on along this difficult
road.
And if you aren't walking thishard journey, personally,
(52:09):
friend, I am praying for youtoday.
As you love on your friend, whois.
How we love our friends throughtheir darkest days matters so
much.
And I think it is such animportant way to image Jesus to
those in our lives.
So keep fighting that fight.
Alongside them.
And if we're thinking reallypractical for blessing friends
on this hard journey, By newdigital resource might be just
(52:32):
the tool that you need to getthose details.
It's called 20 facts to knowabout your friends.
And these are the kinds ofthings that are just going to
give you the fodder to likebless and love on them in
tangible ways.
It's a free PDF.
You can download and eitherprint, or you can just text it
to a friend to fill out for you,then save those ideas in your
phone, under their contact cardfor when you need it.
(52:54):
You can get this resource on mywebsite, which is linked in the
description of this episode.
And if you haven't yet joined mynewsletter crew, will you visit
your sister kimber.com tosubscribe?
When you subscribe, you get myweekly newsletter directly to
your email inbox, with a previewof what will be featured on the
podcast that week.
Plus a link to this month's blogpost, and some other resources
(53:14):
tips to help you growfriendships that honor God and
draw you closer to Jesus.
And thank you so much for beingpart of this community friends
until next time.
It's your sister Kimber.
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