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March 22, 2023 55 mins

Sallyjo Cook shares her story of losing her husband, mother, and father to cancer, all within several years, and how loneliness tries to pervade our lives when walking through the grief of loss. She not only bravely shares her story, but also speaks about what has helped her through these years, what has hurt & helped most from friends, and what she knows to be true about God.

If you or a close friend are walking a grief journey, Sally’s story will encourage and inspire you to keep fighting for your friendships and clinging to the Lord, even as the waves of loneliness come.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kimber (00:09):
Hey friends.
Welcome to the, your sisterKimber podcast.
My name is Kimber Gilbert, andI'm really glad you're here.
I believe the conversation we'rehaving today is such an
important one.
My friend, Sally Jo cook was sogenerous in coming on the
podcast to share with us, herstory of losing her incredible
husband to cancer about fiveyears ago.
Today, we're talking about theloneliness that she experienced

(00:32):
during that time.
How her relationship with Godwas impacted and how her
friendships felt the strain ofthis incredibly difficult
season.
I truly hope her wisdom helpsyou learn to love your friends,
walking a hard road, better.
And to help you grow authenticcommunity and friendships in
your life that ultimately honorGod and draw you closer to

(00:54):
Jesus.
I really wish that Sally couldshare her story with us over
coffee today, but this is thenext best thing.
I'm so glad you here, friend.
Let's get started.
Sally.
Hello.
Hi, Kimber.
How are you?

(01:14):
I'm good.
I was joking with you before westarted recording that you're
gonna, I'm gonna have to likestay awake to keep up with your
wit tonight because you're,you're really quick and it's
kind of late for me.
Maybe it's late for you too.
Are you a morning person or aneight owl?

Sally (01:29):
I am a morning person, but just so you know, that's
like a lot of pressure you justlaid there Like now your
audience is gonna be like, whatis she talking about?
That lady's kind of thick as abrick.
I don't know what she meant.

Kimber (01:44):
Oh, no way.
No way.
I love it.
Well, friends listening, today Iget to talk with Sally.
you are such a special person inmy story.
and I feel like you were reallyfoundational to when we first
moved here.
Like we moved to Alaska back in2014 and we met then through
some mutual friends and we hadlike driven into Alaska

(02:07):
mid-April, I think, and it wasEaster and we came to your
church.
Yeah.
And it was like one of our firstSundays, in Alaska and it was
Easter and um, I'll neverforget.
Tom was like, nice to meet youSean.
And in like the next breath, heinvited us over for Easter
dinner at your house, Eventhough he like did not know you

(02:28):
at all, And I just remember Iwas standing there, I don't know
where you were, but I wasstanding there and I was like,
assuming Sean would be like,okay, thanks, but no, we're
good.
But he was like, okay, And I wasjust like, oh, okay.
Like we're doing this, we'regoing over to a stranger's house

(02:49):
for, for Easter dinner.
But it was so good and you guysreally just like became like a
HomeAway for home for us, Iwould say.
And it was just really, it wasreally wonderful.
So, thank you for yourhospitality then and um, I'm
just really honored that wecould talk today.
So thanks for chatting with me.

Sally (03:08):
Yeah.
Well, on that regard.
what is just so clear to me is,uh, already with the Kleenex,

Kimber (03:15):
what we knew was gonna happen,

Sally (03:19):
you know, God is so forward thinking and, you know,
we don't know what we need.
Yeah.
And you know, maybe that was amoment where you felt welcomed
and you didn't have to spendEaster alone.
But the truth of the matter iswhen everything blew up, I mean,
Kimber, let me just do a quicklittle thumbnail list of how you

(03:42):
blessed my life.
One, you helped me finish out myschool year, which was huge.
Yeah.
And you helped me.
Well, frankly, you cleaned up mydog duty in the yard.
Yes.
Like, oh my

Kimber (03:56):
gosh.
That's right.
I forgot about that.

Sally (03:59):
Let me tell you another thing you did.
Mm-hmm.
You, you stepped in and youasked Thomas what you could do
for his mom because it wasMother's Day.
Mm-hmm.
And obviously he couldn't doanything for her.
And I don't know, it was just anamazing example of just creative
helpfulness.
Mm-hmm.

(04:20):
And I, I think that reallyworked out well because you did
know us.
Mm-hmm.
You'd spent time hearing us anddirt biking with us and doing
things and, you know, I thinkit's really hard to help
somebody if you don't know them.
Yeah.
I mean, you could be availableand you could say good words,
but when you know somebody, youcan go right to the heart of

(04:42):
what their gaps are.
Yeah.
And.
and you guys did that and youwere just little tiny children,
You were just little babies andyou figured out how to do that.
And that has to be the HolySpirit.
It has to be.
Yeah, it has to be.
because I feel

Kimber (04:56):
like a lot of the time I, in these moments where it
just feels like reallyoverwhelming and you're like,
you know, in tragedy, you'relike, how do I love this person?
Well, it just feels like, itfeels overwhelming to me a lot
of times.
And I'm like, I don't know.
I don't know what matters.
I don't know.
You know, you don't know.
And, um, because you're not init, right.

(05:17):
But yeah, I think you're rightthat when we do have the
relationship established withthe person, we.
know what those needs are, maybemore, or at least be in a place
where we can ask Yeah.
Um, and be able to step in.
And it's funny you say likethose things, I don't remember
like a lot of that.
And so I think that's just areminder too to us that like,

(05:39):
often I don't think we know inthe moment what blesses someone,
but God uses it.
Right.
Yeah.
And, um, you know, that's whatmatters at the end of the day,
so.
Yep.
Yep.
Well that's really sweet.
Thanks for sharing that friend.
You know, I were joking aboutthe tissues, but like, I knew
that this was gonna be a harderconversation, but it was one
that I really wanted to have, inthis series on loneliness

(06:03):
because I just feel like we.
you know, we talk about, oh,like I've experienced loneliness
in my friendships, through afriendship breakup, or a move
across the country or somethinglike that.
And, those things are real andlike they impact us for sure.
But, today, I wanna talk withyou about loneliness through
loss.

(06:24):
And specifically you lost yourhusband, um, was it five or six
years ago?
Five.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Five.
And, man, that to me, I thinkthat's probably one of the
weightiest things in the world.
Well,

Sally (06:37):
I to walk through.
I think when, uh, when somebodydoes lose their spouse, and
let's face it, it's going to bemore common that, men die
sooner.
Mm-hmm.
And so you know, a lot of timesit's a woman and she's having to
deal with this and, I think whathappens is you lose your past
because all of those littleinside things, those inside

(07:00):
jokes, those inside moments thatyou share, you can't, recreate
them with anybody else.
And so they kind of get fuzzy.
They kind of get, dark and whenyou lose your spouse like that,
you lose your future too.
Mm-hmm.
because we are starting to talkabout retirement and we are, you
know, what, what's the new lifethat we're going to, carve out?

(07:22):
You're always dreaming.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, uh, so it's, you know,obviously you, you lose your
best friend, but you lose morethan that.
You lose your past and you loseyour future.
And, golly, it's.
you're faced with a choice thatyou're not equipped at that

(07:43):
moment to make.
And that is, am I going to stayin the absolutely honest,
truthful place that this is notfair and it's not right, and
it's terrible.
Are you gonna stay there or areyou going to, I don't even know
what to put there.
Are you not, are you not gonnastay there?
And, everybody has to come tothe point where they, they have

(08:07):
to de decide, am I gonna staythere or am I going to start
seeking and searching for theanswer to the fact that that
dance is over?
Hmm.
And I don't think God wants usliving lives without song and
dance and comfort.
Yeah.

(08:28):
And, uh, I, I, I feel like mystory isn't really complete that
I lost Thomas.
I mm-hmm.
I, I think when I was, I'd onlybeen married a year and my
sister, it was never reallyclear if she committed suicide
or if she was murdered.
I think the answer to that issomewhere in the middle.

(08:51):
Hmm mm-hmm.
Um, and so the man that was, Ithink, responsible for her death
got to go on with his life.
Mm.
And my parents were devastated.
And I was devastated.
And because it was such a, ugly,yeah.
Unsure.
Mysterious, angry, violentthing.

(09:11):
I couldn't talk about it.
Mm.
and it really was justdevastating.
So that was kind of my first,real look at loss and death.
And I, I absolutely know thatwe, I did not do it right.
Mm-hmm.
Something about my parents diddo it right, because they clung

(09:31):
to each other.
Mm-hmm.
And somehow they came outstronger and better for it.
but then years later, you know,Thomas was diagnosed as having
cancer in February.
Mm-hmm.
and, you know, you have to hope.
Mm-hmm.
you know, there's not any 100%anything.
There's no guarantee of ahundred percent cure or there's

(09:53):
not.
There's not even a guarantee ofa hundred percent this is going
to be your death.
Like, yes.
You don't know.
Yes.
So we marched on and we madeplans, and by June he was in
hospice and there was so many,amazing blessings.
As I look back.
Providence Hospital, gifted uswith what, a month and a half

(10:17):
of, of hospice care, right.
In their facility.
It was a little apartment and wehad 24 hour nurse help.
I, I can't even, I, I don't evenknow who else has had something
like that.
It was so amazing.
Even though it felt horrible, itfelt like a terrible thing.
We just don't know whatblessings are until we can get

(10:39):
past things and take inventory.
So he was diagnosed in Februaryand he died in June and he died
just, um, just six days beforeour 30th wedding anniversary.
And I don't, what is a number?
I don't know.
That doesn't really matter, butit, it's, it just seemed like,

(10:59):
uh, right,

Kimber (11:01):
it what is, what wasn't, it was significant stuff.
Yeah.
It wasn't

Sally (11:04):
long enough.
And, by the beginning of July,which was just two weeks later,
my mom who.
was under a tremendous amount ofpressure and she, she just loved
Thomas so dearly.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I was the child that shehad cuz God made that choice.
Hmm.
But Thomas was the one that shechose Mm-hmm.

(11:26):
And that was such a beautiful,sweet relationship.
And as time has gone by, I, Ihave found little things that
Thomas didn't even share with meof financial ways that he helped
my mom and dad and he kind ofstopped telling me that he was
financially helping them becauseit just

Kimber (11:42):
made me so mad.
Right.
that's a different relationship,mom.
Yes.
And kid versus in lie.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Sally (11:50):
and so by July and August we knew she had brain cancer and
I had to close her business and.
I don't know, Kimber, it's likeI didn't have enough time to, to
say goodbye to Thomas before Ihad to deal with this next
thing.
and so she passed in Februaryand it was very peaceful and she

(12:13):
was well taken care of, and shedied here at home.
But there were some things aboutmy mom that just weren't
unresolved.
Hmm.
And I was, it is very hard tohave someone die that you're mad
at.
Oh, yeah.
Because where does that go?
You know?
Yes.

Kimber (12:29):
What do you think with

Sally (12:30):
it?
Yeah.
Right.
and then by the next, so thatwas February.
That was our second February.
And then, um, by May.
and we found out that my dad hadcancer too.
Mm-hmm.
and I got to have him till thenext February.
So.
Mm.
I wanna be on the record assaying I hate February.

(12:50):
I

Kimber (12:51):
hate February, man, I got to talk to a friend who lost
her dad in February recently,and she, also got divorced in
February.
Like, yeah, I think we justchalked February up as a loss.
I

Sally (13:05):
don't, maybe, maybe it's God's gift that that's the
shorty month, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Uh, I don't know, I just, um, Ijust survived that month every
year.
Yeah.
So that is, um,

Kimber (13:17):
that is, it was a reveal after ordeal, after ordeal for a
bit there.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Sally (13:22):
But I wanna tell you about, because you brought up
Easter.
This is in my mind just areally.
Beautiful thing that happened.
two Easters after the dust kindof settled.
Well, the first Easter after thedust settled, so to speak, I was
sitting in my crying chair.
So that's another piece ofadvice I have for people.

(13:44):
Like, keep Kleenex close, cuzyou just don't know Yeah.
When that's gonna happen.
Every chair,

Kimber (13:49):
every
room.

Sally (13:51):
Yeah.
And you know, I just didn'twanna be crying everywhere.
Hmm.
It was sort of like, you know,like the timeout chair, the
crying chair, like, I need tocry.
I'm gonna do it right there soit's not spilling all over
everywhere.
Oh man, I love that.
So I'm sitting in my cryingchair and it's Easter and my

(14:11):
children are not with me.
And that feels a littleestranged.
And of course, families, youknow, I'm not in the middle of a
tragedy anymore.
Hmm.
Right.
So I didn't have any Easter,invitations.
Mm-hmm.
Because you should be with yourkids on Easter, so I'm sure
everybody just assumed, and itjust didn't work out that way.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And I'm like, great, here I amall alone on Easter and oh my

(14:34):
word.
It was a pity party for theages.
Mm-hmm.
I wept.
Oh, I wept till like my facehurt.
and when I was completely out ofenergy and just spent Kimber, I
heard the Holy Spirit say to me,It was just so clear.
The Holy Spirit said, I know.

(14:57):
Hmm.
I know this is terrible.
Mm-hmm.
and it was such a affirmation tome that I'm not crazy.
Yeah.
This is terrible.
Yeah.
This is not the way it'ssupposed to be.
Mm-hmm.
and then I, I took a deep breathand then he, he didn't stop with
that.
He is such a careful counselor.

(15:18):
Hmm.
Yeah.
So he said, now I need you to godeliver Easter baskets.
What?

Kimber (15:27):
I'm in the middle of a pity party.
Excuse me.

Sally (15:31):
And it's, it's, you know, one o'clock on Easter afternoon.
Yeah.
Who has equipment?
We

Kimber (15:38):
don't have baskets sitting around with what is the
fake grass stuff?
like, yeah.

Sally (15:43):
Well, let me tell you what I did.
Like it was almost,

Kimber (15:47):
I'm sure you whipped something up.
You're like

Sally (15:49):
that.
Well, I don't know, but.
My husband and my father lovedpancakes, Uhhuh, And they left
like 15 pounds of pancake mixand I'm looking at that and I
Googled how to make sugarcookies outta pancake mix.
Okay.
That's a thing.
Oh, interesting.

(16:09):
Super duper easy.

Kimber (16:11):
And I suppose that makes sense.
I mean it has what, just likeflour and sugar?
Yeah.
I mean,

Sally (16:16):
yeah.
Yeah.
So in like 20 minutes I had,Easter, cookies in the oven and
I don't know why, but I had, youknow, colored frosting and I
had, I'm like, here's what I'msaying.
Yes, right, Yeah.
But he doesn't provide, like hedid with the Israelites, with

(16:36):
manna coming down outta theheaven.
He provided in such a way as Ihave to say, you've been up to
this for a while.
you were planning this and ofcourse he doesn't plan our
heartache, but he plans right.
Our escape route.
He plans, I'm, I'm got a newsong for you.

(16:56):
Hmm.
You know, I'm sorry that the oldsong is canceled, but here is a
new song and I'm like, where amI gonna get Easter baskets?
I opened up my Tupperware drawermm-hmm.
And I had a plethora of littleTupperwares with no lids and
lids with no Tupperware That isa horrible situation.

(17:16):
Good job.
So I, I just, I got out coloredtissue paper and wrapped it with
cellophane so it's allprotected.
And I just packed this with, Ihad gotten Easter candy that I
was gonna do something with andI didn't, so I made Easter
baskets and I had 12 of them.
I packed them up and I put'em inthe car and I hit the garage
door opener and I said, Nowwhat?

(17:38):
Right.
I mean, I've got these thingsready.
I don't what, what too?
Yeah.
Oh, and that other thing is, itwas in the middle of Covid.

Kimber (17:47):
That's

Sally (17:48):
right.
Oh, so we weren't supposed tosee anybody.
Right.
So I probably did an illegalthing by, I just started out in
Peter's Creek.
Mm-hmm.
And I went to a house of a dearfriend.
I rang the doorbell, put theEaster basket on the porch, and
I split mm-hmm.
And of course, I'm sure shecould see me you know, looking

(18:08):
out the window because I'm notreally very fast But, um, and
then I just got in the car andstarted it up and What's the
next nearest friend?
Mm-hmm.
And I ended up all the way inEast Anchorage, at my daughter's
mother-in-law andfather-in-law's house.
And I dropped off my last Easterbasket and it was probably seven

(18:31):
o'clock at night.
Mm.
and Easter was taken care of,and I I was through it.
Yeah, you got through it.
I, I I was done.
Yeah.

Kimber (18:41):
In that moment.
I'm sure it just felt likemoving from okay, like what's
next?
What's next?
Like, okay, I'm being obedient,like I'm getting through this
time.
what do you think the Lord wasteaching you in that moment?
Do you think there was anything,or was it just like a gift of
like, Hey, I'm gonna

Sally (18:58):
get you through this day?
I think it was a gift.
Hmm.
Of I am big enough to handleyour day.
Hmm.
And I did a, I did a lot ofjournal writing and you know, as
I look back on it, some of it'slike, what in the world did that
mean?
I don't know.
But some of it's kind ofinteresting.
And, and one thing was, I waspouring my heart out in this one

(19:22):
journal that, you know, God,why?
I, I want good things.
Mm-hmm.
I wanted a future.
I wanted Yep.
I wanted a, a companion.
I wanted someone to share allthis stuff with me.
I wanted to be a grandparentwith Yeah.
With the, with someone to sharethat.
Yeah.
And I wanted to retire and Iwanted to do all these things

(19:43):
and, and it was good.
They were

Kimber (19:44):
all good things, good desires.
Yes.

Sally (19:46):
And, and the answer that I got that I wrote down again,
the Holy Spirit's voice is justso particular.
It's got a, it's got a sound anda feel to it.
That's not like anything else.
Mm-hmm.
And he said, I know.
Mm-hmm.
And he's, you know, that's,that's a pattern.
He says, I know, I know, but Ihave this new thing for you.

(20:09):
And I retorted, like, I don'twant the new thing, I don't want
the new thing.
Yeah.
The new thing is not as good asthe old thing.
Yeah.
But I've, I've come to the pointwhere just the other day,
Kimber, I was thinking, youknow, cuz you spend a lot of
time just wishing your peoplecould be back.
Yeah.
Not even realizing that you'rewishing that.

(20:30):
Hmm.
And then when you kind of comeout of the river, you're like,
oh, well that was silly, but,you know, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
I, I was in that river eat andall of a sudden I thought if my
people came back, oh my gosh, Ihave changed so much of where
everybody, I don't know that Ihave enough places for everybody
to

Kimber (20:45):
be Oh

Sally (20:47):
yeah.
And, and I kind of laughed and Ithought, well that would kind of
be cruel for me to say, oh hey,uh, you guys, you've been in
heaven for a while, but couldyou come on back here?
Cause that's what I prefer.
Mm-hmm.
like, no.
And it, it, for the first time,it dawned on me that I'm okay.
That they're never gonna comeback.
Mm-hmm.

(21:07):
I'm gonna go to them.
Yeah.
you know, Hmm.
That was kind of a, a cornerthat I turned.
Hmm.
was

Kimber (21:15):
it just time do you think?
Or what helped you turn that, doyou think?

Sally (21:19):
I think definitely time.
Definitely.
just stopping to watch and takeinventory of all the things.
Uh, I'll, I'll use the metaphor,sprinkles that God had in place
so that I could be okay.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Um, and another thing I realizedis he had his hands full.

(21:41):
Cuz I am a mess.
I, I, wow.
I take constant affirmation.
Mm-hmm.
I am a needy, insecure absolutemess.
when I first came to my parents'house after mom and dad had
passed, and there was just somany things to deal with.

(22:04):
There was a family picture onthe dining room table.
Mm-hmm.
of when I was in the seventhgrade, my sister was a senior in
high school, and there was mymom and dad, who at the time I
thought were really old mm-hmm.
but they were probably likebarely, they're like, barely 40.
And like, yeah.
Oh my word.
Ugh.
Um, and all of a sudden I justhad this panic attack, like,

(22:27):
there we are.
That was my family.
That's what I see myself as.
Hmm.
And nobody's left.
It's just me.
Yeah.
And, my friend Bill, who youknow Yeah.
Um, I just started crying andBill doesn't always know what to
do when I cry.
And he's like, uh, you okay?
And I

Kimber (22:45):
said, bill, if you're like hyperventilating,

Sally (22:49):
Bill, all my people are gone.
And he's not a sports person,but Holy Spirit gave him a
sports, a sports ball metaphor.
Yes.
He took his big finger and hetapped on my seventh grade face
and he said, yeah, but thatone's still in the game.
And he's got more stuff for thatone to do.
Hmm.
And when you're going throughthat tragedy, you just need to

(23:12):
be reminded of the good things.
But, but the tricky thing is ifsomeone comes in who doesn't
really know Yeah.
They start saying, oh, oh, uh,you're so lucky to have this.
Really?
I'm lucky that my life is blownapart and I have that stupid
thing that's not lucky.
Right.

(23:33):
So I don't know what the answeris to help people.
Say what's right, but maybesometimes not saying anything
Yeah.
Is the best thing.

Kimber (23:43):
Hmm.
That's something that yeah, Iwould love to talk more about
because it probably feels, Iknow it feels to me, and I would
think probably to other peopleyou know, it feels like such an
elephant in the room.
Almost.
Like, I wanna like be there foryou.
I wanna like care for your heartas my friend.
Well, through Yeah.

(24:04):
Your loss.
But I know that like, grieflooks different for everyone,
right?
Yeah.
and it's gonna look differentone day from what it looks like
the next day.
And so I know that I can'tpossibly predict that.
Yeah.
So it's like, you know, but Iwanna honor you well, and I
don't wanna cause more hurt.

(24:25):
So like, walking that linefeels, like, such an
overwhelming task, And, I don'tknow, like from, you know, your
side of being the one whoprobably sensed, friends around
you trying to walk that line.
Well, yeah.
Like what were some things thatseemed helpful?

(24:45):
Some things that weren't like,you can only speak from your
experience.
Right.
And so, right, right.
It depends.
But, um, I would love to hearyour perspective on that.
Like, having walked through notonly a really heavy season, but
like, it was long.
Right?
It was a long season of loss.
what felt, what felt helpful?

(25:06):
What didn't feel as loving toyou in that time?

Sally (25:10):
Well, am I allowed to say a spicy word here?

Kimber (25:13):
You could say a spicy word,

Sally (25:15):
Okay.
Okay.
just days after Thomas passed,one of his, basketball coaches
came by to offer hiscondolences.
And, I knew him of course, and Iknew that Thomas loved him.
but it wasn't me with theconnection with him.
Mm-hmm.
right.
And.
so two things on our list.

(25:36):
Go, go where it isuncomfortable.
Go to the funeral, stay longer,sign the book, shake the hand.
It's not comfortable, it's notpleasant, but it's so good.
It's so important.

Kimber (25:50):
why did it feel important to you?
What was it that like, feltimportant about that lingering

Sally (25:55):
particularly?
Um, it was an affirmation that,you know, in Thomas's funeral,
the people that came, it wasimportant because it made his
life real to me.
Hmm.
Like, I didn't just make up thathe was a good person.

Kimber (26:11):
Yeah, there

Sally (26:13):
were people at his funeral that I didn't even know
so many.
Yeah.
Which means, which means Kimberthat out there somewhere, and I
may never know these, but justknowing that out there somewhere
is somebody that could tell mesomething about Thomas that I
didn't know.
Hmm.

(26:33):
And it would be like, I got tobe

Kimber (26:35):
with it, kid.
There's more.

Sally (26:37):
More.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
Mm.
Because one thing was I couldnot throw away and I still
don't, and I've given myselfpermission to do this weird
thing.
I do not get rid of anythingthat Thomas ever wrote, like
anything.
That's his handwriting.
It goes in a box.
Yeah.
And I don't know if that willalways be important to me, but

(26:57):
because he'll never writeanything again.
For some reason that justregistered in my head, he'll
never write anything again.
So those strangers that came tohis funeral, Hmm.
Give me hope that someday Imight run into a person at a
grocery store or somewhere andthey might figure out who I am,

(27:17):
and they might tell me somethingthat I didn't know about Thomas.
And then I will get to see'emagain for the first time a
little bit.
Yeah.
Now, I also know that youraudience may be waiting for the
spicy word.

Kimber (27:28):
Yes, we are Yes, because I haven't gotten to that part
yet.
Yeah.
Right.
So yes, back to our basketballcoach friend.
So

Sally (27:35):
he, kind of waved at me if I would please come, you
know, out the door.
And it was a sunny day and so I

Kimber (27:42):
followed him when Thomas was in hospice.
Yeah.
Is that right?
This

Sally (27:44):
is right after he passed.
After he passed.
Okay.
It might have even been beforehis funeral actually.
Okay.
I mean, it was really fresh andhe came, I didn't tell him that
Thomas died because you can'tjust tell everybody, but somehow
he knew.
Right.
What does that tell you?
That tells you that people arenoticing Yeah.
That Thomas is gone.

Kimber (28:04):
Someone told him because

Sally (28:05):
someone knew he would care.
Yes.
Yes.
And he walked me out to the,front deck and, and the door was
closed and he said, I just needto tell you this so that, so
that it's not so shocking.
And you're a little bit readyand you won't be completely
ready, but.
People are gonna say some stupidshit to you.
Oh, And that was really helpfulto me because it gave me a

(28:28):
little bit of a project I couldsee in a person's body language.
I could see in a person's, thefacial expression that they felt
they needed to say something andthey didn't know what to say.
And I kind of took it on as mymission to help people not say
stupid.
Oh, yeah.
And there was one lady at work,I, and I every time she saw me

(28:49):
in the hallway, she would dipher head sideways and go, oh, oh
my goodness.
No.
don't do that.
People, and there wasn't, youknow, I tried to help.
Yeah.
Um, so to get past that awkwardthing, because I live in the
awkward thing, so, so the leastI could do is help other people
not be awkward.

Kimber (29:10):
You're so generous.

Sally (29:11):
Oh my goodness.
There's nothing I could do aboutthat lady.
Right.
you know, you see her in thehallway and say, stop, stop,
stop, stop.
Don't do that thing you're aboutto do.
I know you're gonna do it.
Oh,

Kimber (29:21):
you just yell at her.
Look away.
Look away.

Sally (29:24):
Look away.
Oh,

Kimber (29:27):
yeah, yeah.
So like, it's more likeacknowledging it.

Sally (29:31):
Yes.

Kimber (29:32):
that's such like, so counter, I feel like what seems
like our gut wants to do, butthat's the brave thing in that,

Sally (29:41):
in that moment.
And maybe here's another littlepiece of advice, when I have run
into people, I, I talked to alady on the phone just the other
day, don't even see her face.
All I know is, you know, herfirst name, but she told me that
she just had to, turn herhusband's life support system
off last Tuesday.
And, I said, tell me somethingabout him.

(30:03):
Yeah.
And she told me some thingsabout him, and some were good
and some were not good.
But it took the pressure off meto say, oh, I'm so sorry.
Something.
I'm so sorry.
I know what you're feeling.
No, even though I've been there,I don't really know what she's
feeling.
And she's a complete stranger.
Right.
So I, you know, maybe justinviting people to do the

(30:24):
talking.
Yeah.
Now if you're, you know, ifyou're talking to a really shy
person, just say when you'reready, I would love to hear some
things about.
You know, to, to give someonepermission to talk about
something hard and sad andimportant and good, I think is a
good rule of thumb.

Kimber (30:41):
Yeah.
I love that idea.
Give them like, not that theyneed the permission, but like
inviting it.
Yes.
Like into your relation, likeyour friendship being like,
yeah, this is a space where wecan like sit in.
Conversation that feels hard totalk about, you know, like,
yeah, we can acknowledge it'sawkward, but like, I'm gonna,

(31:03):
I'm gonna sit here and listen.
You know,

Sally (31:05):
like, and, and maybe it wraps back to, remember I was
saying how, you know, there's somany little private moments that
are just lost now.
So maybe inviting somebody to,you know, tell me a story about
your mom that's on your mind.
Yeah.
Like, I can't be your mom foryou, but maybe I can be that
place where you get to relivethat

Kimber (31:25):
for a minute.
Yeah.
Because you don't share it withthe person you lost anymore.
Yeah.
So you're like, yeah.
Who do I share it with?
Well, if someone invites you toshare it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can see how that would seemlike a gift.

Sally (31:38):
Yeah.

Kimber (31:39):
Absolutely.
Hmm.
I love that.
as we're talking about, like thefriendships a little bit, that
you had.
Some of that seems more, likeacquaintances, but as we're like
thinking about your closerfriendships, like as you walked
through the loss of Tom, of yourmom and your dad over those

(31:59):
years, how do you feel like thattime impacted your friendships?
Like your closer friendships,like for good or for bad?
what did you see kind of shiftor change or develop in that
time with your friends?

Sally (32:15):
Well, I will tell you, there were some that peeled
away.
Yeah.
And that was very shocking.
Hmm.
you know, I have a lot of goodfriends and to just have a
friend just absolutely turnaround and walk away because
it's too hard and now they'renot your friend anymore.
Yeah.
To me that almost.

(32:36):
makes me more bitter than justdeath itself.
Mm-hmm.
Um, cuz the few friendships thatI'm talking about that are, are
now over because it was toohard.
That would make me bitter.
Yeah.
And, and so I've had to, to dealwith that.
In fact, we had one friend whokind of dealt with his sadness,

(32:58):
uh, with drugs.
Hmm.
And he came and, you know, nowI'm alone in my house.
Right.
You know, and.
He came at a time when I wasn'tthere because he, you know, he
would ha was a close enoughfriend that he had even lived
with us.
Right.
And, and he just, he robbed us.
Mm-hmm.
And my dad was still with me andhe's like, just let the stuff

(33:23):
go.
It doesn't matter.
I don't want that bitterness inyour life.
You, you've got to not bebitter.
Which is great advice, but

Kimber (33:30):
it's hard to live out.
Yes.
Hard to live out.
Yeah.
Yes.

Sally (33:33):
Yeah.
So what I did with my bitternesson that account was another
friend, he just volunteered histime.
He drove me around Anchorageseveral evenings after school
and we just collected up allthat stuff from the pawn shops.
Right.
And, I think what that wasbecause I didn't need that stuff
back.
In fact, when I got it all back,I went.

(33:55):
Now, why did I do that?
you're

Kimber (33:56):
like, I kind of wanna take

Sally (33:58):
it back to the paw shop, maybe I'll take it back and get
my 40 bucks.
But what that was, was sort ofmy middle finger to, Satan and
everything accusatory andeverything angry, and said, no,
you are not going to make mebitter.
I am not a victim.
I, I'm gonna get my crap back.

(34:19):
Mm-hmm.
And so, I don't know.
Every, every friend that I havehad that has, you know, is still
a good friend to me, just pouredin something different.
because they knew me from adifferent angle and, and cherish
your friendships and make themwhile you don't need them, if
that makes sense.
Yeah.
because when my life fell apart,the Hummingbird Army activated

(34:44):
mm-hmm.
And why I had gone to the samechurch for, well, since I was 16
years old.
Yeah.
And I had been a kid, and then Ihad been a young woman, and then
I had been, you know, a newmother and then I, in this
church.
And not everybody can do that.
Especially like the crazymilitary people that go, I know.
Hopping around all the time.

Kimber (35:03):
You make it a challenge.
But, but I love that advice.
Make the friends before you needthem.
Yeah.
Cause you're gonna need'em.
Yeah.
You're gonna need'em.
And it's when your life feelslike it's imploding, that's not
the time you're ready to pourinto friendships.
Right.
That's when you need people topour into you.
But if we don't have'em built

Sally (35:22):
Yeah, yeah,

Kimber (35:23):
yeah.
It's gonna feel way moreisolating

Sally (35:25):
and, and who isolates us.
Satan.
Right.
Satan wants us to be all aloneand feel like everything's fine
and then, I don't know, maybeI'm being dramatic, but I think
he gets a kick out of it whenwe're not.
Oh, yeah, I think so.
So, mm-hmm.
and you just gotta listen tothat voice if it's, if there's
anything accusatory mm-hmm.
like, like loneliness is a waveand it comes over you mm-hmm.

(35:49):
and, and it just stops, youknow, depending on how hard the
wave is, it, it can stop justshort of choking you.
Hmm.
But you have to just claim outwhat you know.
I know that this is not from Godbecause this is crushing me and
God does not crush us.
Hmm.
And all I gotta do is just holdon and, you know, maybe get a

(36:11):
good night's rest.
Mm-hmm.
or, or you know, watch a sillyTV show.
Yeah.
Or.
Fill the moment with somethingthat's then I, that's not gonna
become a problem itself.
Yeah.
So I'm not talking about a fifthof vodka.
Right.
Don't do that.
Right, right.
That'll become its own problem.
Mm-hmm.
but, but loneliness.
You just don't know when it'scoming.
You don't know how long it'sgonna stay.

(36:33):
Mm-hmm.
you, it's almost like, I don'tknow, did you ever take, uh,
birthing classes?

Kimber (36:38):
I did.
Online.
It was, you know, covid again,but it's not the same.
You don't go sit on the ball andhuff or whatever.
But I get the gist of the,

Sally (36:47):
you just breathe.
You just breathe.
Breathe and say true words.
Breathe and say true wordsuntil, until it passes.
And, it's like crying.
Yeah.
You will not have strength tocry forever.
Forever.

Kimber (37:02):
mm.
You say, I love that, like, uh,breathe and say true words.
Like where do you think thosetrue words come from for you

Sally (37:10):
in that moment?
you know what, there has beentimes, when all of this
happened, I absolutely lost theability to pray.
Mm-hmm.
I couldn't pray.
I would sit down and my mindjust like wouldn't pray.
Mm-hmm.
And I thought maybe that was mebeing angry at God and I, but I
wasn't angry.
Mm.
I just was blank.

(37:33):
so what I would do is I wouldopen the Bible to Philippians.
is very encouraging book.
And see that was a piece ofinformation that I knew before
my life fell apart.
I knew that Philippians was thefeel good.
and sometimes Philippianscouldn't even do it for me.
And this is gonna sound reallyweird, but I opened up the Bible
to the Book of Job.

(37:54):
Hmm.
and I just started writing outthe scriptures.
Yeah.
Like literally verbatim.
It gave my hand something to do.
Something to do.
Yeah.
It gave my eyes something tolook at.
Yeah.
in those years, Kimber job wasmy peep.
Yeah.

Kimber (38:10):
I, was doing some thinking about that actually,
because I'm sure, did you hearthat a lot?
Like, I felt like you, you guy,you were living job during that
time.
Yeah.
Did you hear that a lot or no?

Sally (38:22):
I, I don't know that people really use the word job.
I'll tell you what I did hear alot, You're so strong.
Hmm.
You're so strong.
Oh.
That used to just make me soangry.
It would crush me.
It would terrify me because ifthey're Right.
Kimber, I gotta figure thisthing out.
Hmm.
If, if they're right and I'mstrong, then I'm on my own.

(38:46):
Oh, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And, I had to work through thefact and I worked it out, that
what they're saying is, you'redoing this in such a way that
you're being maybe an example toother people.
Hmm.
So I, when the people would say,oh, you're so strong, I would
try to hear what it was theywere really saying, and then I
would try to just say the truth.

(39:06):
Like, actually the truth is I ama flipping mess.
Yeah.

Kimber (39:17):
Hey friend, forgive me for taking a quick moment in
this conversation to ask a favorof you.
I hope my conversation withSally is blessing you today.
If so, would you take a momentto rate and review the show on
apple podcasts?
Reviews are so important inhelping new friends find the
show and bonuses.
I love reading.
What is blessing you from thepodcast?

(39:38):
You can find the link to leave areview in the description of
this episode.
So thanks so much for doingthat.
Okay, let's get back to ourconversation.
it's almost more of like a, thefaithfulness of job because
like, he wasn't strong really,but like he does keep turning

(40:00):
his attention to God.
And that's like, That's thestrength that I think is so
like, to continue posturingyourself that way.
Even if your, your posture isthat way and you're mad or
you're blank, like you say, butyou're still, your posture was
still towards scripture.
Like, that to me is strength inthat moment.

(40:22):
And that's not a strength thatrelies on you.
you can be a puddle of mush onthe ground and still be facing a
direction, you know, and Yeah.
but I think the way I thought ofit was just like, the long
suffering

Sally (40:37):
job goes

Kimber (40:38):
through.
Yeah.
It's like, it to me came into mymind as just a like, complaint
to God, honestly.
Like, like it's too much.
It's too much for one person togo through all of that.
Like what job went through allof that?
It's too much for one person.

(40:58):
It's too much person.
Yeah.
And I felt like that with you.
Like it, it just kept coming andthat to me felt like such an
injustice and so it's like,thinking about you writing out
job, I don't think that's crazyat all.
I think that's probably rightwhere you needed to be was like
with someone who went throughtoo much as well.

(41:22):
So that sounds, that makesperfect sense to me.
on that subject.
job He had friends.
in that time with him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And some of them were lamereally well, and a lot of them
did not bless him.
Right.
Yeah.
Um, and so how do you think thepeople around you impacted your

(41:45):
faith positively or negativelyduring like walking through this
time of loss?
Like how can we bless ourfriends in their faith
supporting them when it feelslike they don't have the ability
to pray like you're saying orlike, or don't know what to say
or, you know what I mean?
Like how can we.

(42:05):
maybe walk with our friendsspiritually, through these times
of loss in a way that blessesthem rather than, you know,
being that person who's like,oh, you know, God has a plan or
whatever.
Yeah.
Other crap gets spewed, youknow?
Mm-hmm.
what do you, how do you see kindof walking that line is maybe
looking like,

Sally (42:25):
well, I, I guess it's, a delicate thing to say because I,
yeah.
I don't wanna say what this is,what needs to be done, because
honestly, we don't know.
We don't know.
Yeah.
And that's true.
so let me give you maybe some,adjectives to shoot for Yeah.
Um, consistent.
Mm.
Consistent eyes on your friend.

(42:47):
Mm.
Consistently.
speaking truth.
Mm.
Consistently asking them to staywith you.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
asking them to not shove thingsin a corner like, like we were
talking about.
You know, tell me about yourmom.
Right.
tell me about your dad let'sjust celebrate some good things.

(43:10):
That were there so that the badthings don't overshadow and
steal it all.
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
Here, here's a practical thing.
Mm-hmm.
call me if you need anything.
Holy cannoli, How am I

Kimber (43:25):
supposed to call you?
That's like overwhelming.
That's not helpful.

Sally (43:29):
Is that what you saying?
No.
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
Okay.
so, I'm gonna bring you a pizzatonight.
Is seven o'clock work, right?
Yes.
And then I can say, you knowwhat?
I don't like pizza and I'm, I'mgluten intolerant, but thank you
so much.

Kimber (43:43):
Right.
You have the opportunity tostill reject, but it's not like
you have to ask,

Sally (43:48):
and I don't have to think.
How am I gonna remember to callyou if I need something?

Kimber (43:53):
I don't even, I totally felt that.
Even just, uh, postpartum, likewith baby.
Yeah.
Which is obviously verydifferent, but it's just like
that again, like the mush brain.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
I don't know what I need, likeyou know, probably you have an
idea maybe of something I mightneed, like suggest it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
with the dog poop that youmentioned, like you're never

(44:15):
gonna ask someone that.

Sally (44:17):
No.
You came over and you said, I'mgoing to help you clean Uhhuh
What do you need?
Cleaned?
And I think I, I cocked my headand I went, my gosh, the dog
Poopoo And you're like, you hadthese, boots that had like
little, octopuses on the inside.
Yes.

Kimber (44:35):
I still have them.
Yeah.
They're my doves.
Yeah.
I don't

Sally (44:39):
know if you sanitize them or what, but

Kimber (44:42):
they've been through a lot.
So they, it's washed off by now,

Sally (44:46):
And I'll tell you, you were there, you showed up and
you didn't say, call me if youneed me.
You were just right there andyou said, I'm going to do
something.
what it would be the thing thatyou wanna do.
Least well pick up the poop nomatter where I am in the
tragedy, continuum spectrum iswhat I wanna do.

(45:08):
Least Yes.
That's a hundred percent true.
And also maybe you were a dogowner, so Sure.
Remember I was saying eachfriend kind of poured in
according to Yeah.
What they had.
Mm-hmm.
But yeah, cleaning up dog poowas kind of kimber's.
She kind of knew about dog poo,you

Kimber (45:28):
Oh no, I love that though, because I think it's so
easy for us to focus on likewhat we lack, like what we feel
like we don't have to bring yesto someone who's in need But I
love that you recognizeDifferent friends have different
things to give and that's okay.
and,

Sally (45:45):
and that's wonderful.
You have lean

Kimber (45:46):
into it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause no one was probably youreverything.
Right.
You know, you needed, you neededa, a system.
And I'm sure some people weremore close to everything than
others, of course.
But like, there's those closepeople that provide more, but
still, like, you need all ofyour people.
And so that's an encouragementto me for sure.

Sally (46:06):
That's good.
You know, Let me maybe just saythis, I think is a skill that
people can work on, no matter iftheir life is going well or if
they're in the middle of a, poopshower mm-hmm.
Um, you've got to learn to sort.
the voices.
Mm-hmm.
there are two voices coming atyou.
God's voice is coming at you.

(46:27):
The still small voice, it'scoming.
Mm-hmm.
And it's there.
Yeah.
And, and the world's Satandriven loud voice and you've got
to hear the difference.
And it seems overwhelming andlike, how am I supposed to know
the difference?
I think it's simple if it'sencouraging.
Mm-hmm.
if it's true, if it's edifying,if it's heart melting Hmm.

(46:51):
Then it's from God.
Yeah.
That is the, that is the whisperof the Holy Spirit.
Hmm.
If it is accusing, if it iscausing fear, yep.
If it is causing feelings ofinadequacy and loneliness, it's
not from God.
And you may have to hold onthrough it.

(47:13):
You know, if it's not a faucetthat you can just turn off, you
may have to hold on through it,but you don't have to listen to
it.
You, you don't have to acceptit.
You, you don't have to say,yeah, that's what I am now.
Yeah.
and, and if you will hold onlong enough and you will speak
words of truth, it will getclearer.

(47:34):
It will.
Hmm.
Yeah.

Kimber (47:36):
I love that because in those moments that is what we
have to guide us when we don'thave anything else Yeah.
Like, you know, but it can feeloverwhelming, I think, to try to
discern that voice in themoment.
Maybe if we haven't ever triedto discern it before.
Like you say about like, buildyour friendships before you need
'em kind of thing.
Yeah.
But like, learn to listen to theHoly Spirit before.

(47:59):
that's like all you have toclinging to, you know?
And so I, I love thatencouragement to pay attention
to what we're hearing.
Yeah.
You know, and and what, and sortit believing sort

Sally (48:11):
it.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Because you, there's a differentflavor.
It's a different taste, it's adifferent tone.
Like whatever fits in yourunderstanding when you start
sorting it like that, it'sreally clear.
Like right now I'm reallyfighting.
you know, I've gone throughmenopause and, you know, I'm
never gonna be young again.
And that's sad.

(48:31):
That is a, that's a grief, youknow.
Sure.
and so I, I, I've always foughtthis a little bit, but lately
it's like, oh my gosh, I see apicture of myself and I just
wanna, blah.
I see myself in the mirror andI'm like, oh my gosh.
And that's not from God.
Nope.
That's accusing.
Mm-hmm.
Satan is the accuser.

(48:52):
Yep.
So when I feel that coming upand I'm feeling that reaction, I
just snap my finger and I say,God made that.
Hmm, God made that face.
And if you're doing something tomake it worse, then you need to
stop that.
Like, maybe you should work outa little bit more.
Not that could be true.
Sure.
Uh, maybe, you know, you need tovisit the L'Oreal store,

(49:15):
whatever do your best goodstewards.
Sure.
Um, sure.
But if it's making you I don'tknow what that word is, like,
kind of despise yourself, likeYeah.
Ugh.
you are listening to the wrongvoice.
Hmm.
And, I'm pointing my finger atthat and I snapping my finger
and saying, God made that.
And I know that's a silly thingto say, but it's just a little

(49:36):
reminder of Yeah.
What you can listen to.
Yes.
I love that.
And when I walk into a room andI see a friend or I meet a
stranger, I don't see any ofthem barfing.
No.
They're not seeing my face.
And, you know, doubling over inpain So it's not true.
Yep,

Kimber (49:52):
Absolutely.
Anyway.
Hmm.
I love that.
Yeah, man.
Sally, thank you so much forjust telling us what's up.
I love it.
It's good.
Well, thanks for, for sharingyour story with us and trusting
us with it.
I'm really honored.

Sally (50:07):
Thank you.
You know, it's important to, andit's been enough time that it's
not really the thing that comesup all the time anymore.
Yeah.
But I love this story that Godgave me, not just the good
Barts.
but the hard parts too.
Mm-hmm.
So thanks for giving me theopportunity to, to remember.

Kimber (50:25):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like that is just one ofthe, like, things that stands
out to me most through ourconversation is just inviting
the opportunity to remember canbe one of the most important
things we can do for our friendsin Yeah.
In these hard spaces.
I.
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah,

Sally (50:43):
thank you.

Kimber (50:44):
Oh man, I love it.
Well, Sally, to wrap up thepodcast, I used to, ask my
friends who I got to interview,about their plants or like their
gardening or whatever, but I'vetaken a pause from that.
But with spring, like teasing usout there, I feel like with the
sunshine right now, I wasthinking about it and you are

(51:05):
like a master gardener.
So I wanted to ask you as wewrap up here, what is like just
one thing that you want to makesure that you get to do outside
this summer in the realm ofgardening?
What's like your number one

Sally (51:19):
dream?
Well, that's a hard one becauseI have moved to a place where
there's not as much sun.
Yeah, so I'm kind of having tochange my go-to plants.
Yeah.
But you know, you asked me thelast time you were over for
dinner, what are you doing forfun?
And that question has haunted mebecause I'm not doing my
goodness.
Anything for fun right now.

(51:40):
It is all work, it is all towardthis goal.
And I don't know, God has putKimber in my life like, you need
some rose pushes.
Yeah, you need some hangingbaskets

Kimber (51:51):
because Sally, when I think of you, you love fun.
Oh, you do.
I mean, that's how I imagineyou, I mean, I'm sorry to be
the, source of the word,

Sally (52:03):
but No, it, it's good because I don't, it's probably a
good one to pick at.
I don't wanna lose myself, soYeah, I want to have, geraniums
everywhere because geraniums areso sturdy and some people hate
geraniums.
And I'm, in fact, some peoplesay geraniums smell like cat pee
but I've smelled cat pee and itdoes not smell like geraniums

(52:25):
but they're just so hardy and ifI neglect them for a little bit,
yes, they'll be okay.
And that's

Kimber (52:31):
why I love platoons.
I feel like Yes, they can see it

Sally (52:34):
through.
Yeah, absolutely.
They're fine.
Yes.
Yes.
So yeah, maybe I just need to goto the blue collar flowers.
while I'm doing this hard thing,I've, I've gotten a job and I'm
working 40 hours a week and I'venever done that in my life.
Because I used to work 60 hoursa week.
Oh, okay.
I was gonna say

Kimber (52:52):
we were both, we didn't really talk about this at all,
which cuz we could talk about abillion things.
But Sally was an English teacherfor, what, 25 years Did you
retire?
Or 24?
33.

Sally (53:02):
Whoa.
Oh really?

Kimber (53:04):
I think you were at twenties only.
Okay.
I'm behind obviously Um, I waslike, you have for sure worked a
40 hour week if you're a

Sally (53:11):
teacher.
You know what though?
When I'm with kids it doesn'tfeel like work.
Oh, it's different.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's different.
It's true.
That's a good one.
Anyway.
Yes, geraniums, petunias willthrow in some boones and Yeah,
I, I've always tried to winterover roses.
Yeah.
And I just can't, I just can'tfigure out how to do that.

(53:32):
Okay.
So you.
I was gonna buy new ones.
Yep.
Because give some fresh roses.
Give

Kimber (53:37):
me some new annuals.
We'll, work fine.

Sally (53:42):
Yeah.
Thank love.
Thank you.
So keep bugging me about thatbecause you're right.
I, I need to have beauty in mylife.
That's why God sent me you.

Kimber (53:50):
Oh, likewise my aw Thanks so much, Sally.
All right.
Have a good night.

Sally (53:55):
Thank you.
Bye.

Kimber (54:01):
Friends.
I am so glad you could joinSally and I this week on the,
your sister Kimber podcast.
I'm really honored that Sallywould share her story with us
today and her wisdom on beinggood friends to our friends,
walking through.
And living with loss.
I hope it helps you be ablessing to your people.
They need you friends.

(54:21):
So don't let the devil keep youliving scared to love them.
Well, And if you're wanting togrow an intentionality with
loving your friends well, My newdigital resource might be a
help.
It's called 20 facts to knowabout your friends.
And it's going to give you theideas to bless your people and
love on them in tangible ways.
It's a free PDF that you candownload and either print or

(54:43):
just even text it to a friend tofill out for you, then save
those ideas in your phone, undertheir contact card for when you
need it.
Like Sally told us, make yourfriends before you need them.
You can get this resource on mywebsite, which is linked in the
description of this episode.
And if you haven't yet joined mynewsletter crew, will you visit
your sister kimber.com tosubscribe?

(55:05):
When you subscribe, you get myweekly newsletter directly to
your email inbox, with a previewof what will be featured on the
podcast that week.
Plus a link to this month's blogposts and some other resources
and tips to help you growfriendships, the honor, God and
Dre, closer to Jesus.
I hope it blesses you.
Friends.
Thanks so much for being part ofthis community until next time.

(55:25):
It's your sister Kimber.
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