April 19, 2023 • 49 mins
Love it or hate it, the postpartum season is wild. Jaclyn Levesque, who just had her third baby, chats with Kimber about the ups, downs, highs and lows of the postpartum season, as well as how this time uniquely impacts our friendships. They share differences in their own experiences, particularly how circumstances impact postpartum time, how loneliness showed up uniquely during the newborn days, as well as ways to love our friends well through this season, whether you yourself have experienced postpartum or not.
To learn how to show up for your friends in their own postpartum journeys, allow this episode to be a jumping off point for conversations with your own sisters as you seek to love each other well through the many seasons of life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kimber (00:09):
hey friends.
Welcome to the, your sisterKimber podcast.
My name is Kimberly Gilbert, andI'm so glad you're here.
Friendship is hard enough whenlife is steady, right.
But with the newborn phase comesnot only adjusting to a new
little life as part of yourworld, but also just the ups and
downs of postpartum emotions.
(00:30):
Healing and just the regularneeds of life that keep on
coming.
My friend Jacqueline is a mamaof three and just emerging from
the newborn stage with herthird.
And today we're chatting aboutthe loneliness that can come for
mama's during this unique time.
We talk about the challengesthat keep us isolated.
During the newborn phase, howfriends can bless us and even
(00:52):
what our friends who aren'tmamas need to know to love on
your friends during this time ofneed.
Even if you haven't experiencedit yourself.
I hope our toxic day helps yougrow authentic community around
you and friendships that honorGod and draw closer to Jesus.
No matter what stage of lifeyou're walking in right now.
I wish we could grab coffee withJacqueline for our talk today,
but this is the next best thing.
(01:13):
I'm so glad you're here, friend.
Let's get started.
Hey, Jacqueline
Jaclyn (01:22):
Hey, Kimber.
Kimber (01:24):
how are you?
How are you
Jaclyn (01:25):
I'm doing well.
How are you?
Kimber (01:27):
Yeah, I'm, I'm good.
We have only had to reschedulethis talk, I think three, two or
three times.
Yeah, Which makes sense becausewe're talking about the newborn
stage today.
Right.
And so, although your excuse wasrelated to that, you had some
sleep regression drama that weworked through.
(01:49):
Um, we just had the sicknessthat went through our house,
but, we made it.
I'm so excited to finally be
Jaclyn (01:56):
the other side.
Kimber (01:57):
yes, would you just go ahead and get started by
introducing yourself to ourfriends listening?
Jaclyn (02:03):
yeah.
My name is Jacqueline.
My husband's name is Alec.
Um, we are both physicaltherapists.
We met, I met Kimber and Sean inAlaska when we lived there, and
we've since moved.
I've got three little guys now,two boys and a little girl who's
new who just had her sleepregression.
So
Kimber (02:22):
So fun.
Jaclyn (02:23):
to talk about all the postpartum things and
Kimber (02:26):
Yeah.
You've done it three times now,which does it get easier or is
it just different every time?
Jaclyn (02:32):
Yeah, I think it's just easier, right?
There's no rule that, like thefirst one has to be the hardest.
Kimber (02:37):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (02:37):
in fact, that was not my experience at all.
Kimber (02:39):
Mm
Jaclyn (02:40):
Micah was my first ahead, him in Alaska, um, in
2018.
And, you know, he'd been therefor two years and.
We had a great community and anamazing church and fantastic
employers and we just had tonsof support.
and so it was really, I'll sayeasy as if like any postpartum
seasons ever easy, you know, um,we just had a lot of support.
(03:03):
And then, um, Liam is my second,he just turned three, so I had
Liam, in 2020.
And
Kimber (03:11):
Which wasn't
Jaclyn (03:11):
you know, we had, and
Kimber (03:12):
And then Yeah.
Jaclyn (03:14):
yeah, so we had left Alaska in 2019 and moved, spent
three months in two differentstates each.
And then we had just bought ahouse in it's brand new town
and, kind of gotten settled,like we found a church and we
had been to a few sessions witha small group.
And
Kimber (03:30):
Hmm.
Jaclyn (03:31):
Had Liam and two weeks later our lockdown started.
And so, we were really fresh inthe area and it was a very
different experience.
we had some family nearby, butyou know, we weren't even really
seeing them for a period oftime.
And so not having a lot of,community here, it was, that was
very, very different.
Kimber (03:52):
And I feel like if, cuz Judah wasn't born until like mid
2021.
And so I feel like by then Covidhad calmed down a little bit.
how was it for you with anewborn navigating the beginning
of Covid?
Like, that sounds really scaryto me.
What was your
Jaclyn (04:11):
Yeah, yeah.
It was, that was a, that was areally hard time to have a baby,
and I'm forever thankful.
It wasn't my first.
That learning curve of the firstpostpartum experience on top of,
you know, the extra, isolation,physical and the extra anxiety
of all of the unknown and havingthis tiny little vulnerable life
(04:34):
to care for and protect and nothaving any idea what that looked
like in that season.
So that was just reallyinteresting.
It was really, it was reallydifficult.
Yeah,
Kimber (04:46):
I think that also being away from a lot of support and
like in that seasonparticularly, cuz like even
family was a little far, wasprobably really challenging.
Cuz when I had Judah, we were inFairbanks and I felt similar in
that stage.
We had a few people, but we hadjust lost some friends and it, I
(05:09):
just felt very, I felt veryalone in that time.
And our friends that we didhave, we lived on a military
base and none of them weremilitary.
And so it was like a lot of thetime they wanted to help.
But to me it felt like more of aburden to like go get a meal
from them at the gate.
Like go meet them at the gate.
Then it would like, I'll justmake dinner, you know, um, that
(05:32):
kind of thing.
And.
Like the isolation of thatstage.
I feel like I, I felt it alittle more than I think I
would've if like we had been in,a community where we had more
support,
Jaclyn (05:43):
Sure.
Kimber (05:43):
like we do now.
and that's actually one reasonthat I was excited to talk to
you about this, that I thoughtof you because, for me, during
that time you were like such agift to me.
And I don't know, I don't knowhow much you know this, but, you
just like texted me, I think,and we had been, we were really
close when you guys lived inAlaska.
(06:04):
We got to live on the samestreet, which was so fun.
Jaclyn (06:07):
yeah.
Right.
Kimber (06:09):
but we hadn't talked a, a ton since you guys had moved
and you texted me and I don'tknow what it was just.
you know, right time, rightperson or what, but like, I just
felt really comfortable talkingto you, and I felt like your
vibe was like, what I needed,like you know, it's like I think
we, we all need differentthings, right?
(06:29):
In that, in that time.
And I think that your combo oflevelheadedness but
encouragement, but also like,realisticness, I guess, uh, was
just a, a good combo and it wasjust what I needed.
And so,
Jaclyn (06:42):
you for sharing that.
Kimber (06:44):
Yeah, it was such a gift to me during that time.
and so as I was thinking aboutlike, okay, loneliness, like the
postpartum time was for sure onethat felt lonely to me and I was
like, okay, what helped duringthat time?
And I was like, Jacquelinehelped like, you know, you
answered my questions.
(07:04):
and we're just, yeah, you were areal blessing to me during that
time.
So I'm thankful for you forthat.
And as we're talking here, I waslike, man, she's done it three
times now and so I feel like youcan probably speak to this.
And so I'm excited to hear justyour kind of perspective on this
and um, just like how we can,love on our friends who are
(07:24):
going through this cuz you didthat really well for me, even
though we weren't maybe in asuper close, uh, relationship at
that time.
And so, So, yeah, I want to, Iwanna dig into that a little bit
with you tonight.
I don't know about you.
I sometimes feel like, I thinkone of the reasons that you
reaching out to me and beingthere really presently, although
via text, but as present as youcould be from afar during that
(07:47):
time, was really, it just feltreally generous to me be was
because, I think sometimes Ifeel this pressure of like, you
know, if I'm not already likebest friends, like the closest
friend with a person, I'm like,they probably have someone else
to meet this need.
And so there's like a, ahesitancy maybe to like, reach
out in that, or like a pressureto only care for my friends at
(08:09):
like the level of care thatthey've indicated to me is
appropriate or something forthat time.
And I think it's just aninsecurity maybe.
but like, do you ever experiencethat kind of Trying to figure
out, you know, do I reach out tothis person during this time?
Should I, should I not?
Like, what led you with me, Iguess, in that moment to like,
(08:31):
reach out?
What, what was
Jaclyn (08:33):
interesting.
It's interesting that you saythat because, I had, in my first
postpartum season with Micah, I
Kimber (08:40):
Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn (08:42):
who I had been close with when we lived in New York
State and kind of a similarsituation.
Then had gone a period of timewhere we didn't speak quite as
much.
We had moved around a lot.
Um, and they, you know, had acouple kids before we had our
first, but she, I'm thinking ofone girl in particular, and she
was so willing to, and it didn'tfeel in invasive in any way, but
(09:05):
she was just so willing to askthe questions, like, how are you
really, and like, are younursing?
And like, if you are, how is itgoing?
Like that's the, the things thatcan be really difficult about
that season that sometimespeople don't really wanna, I
don't know, like maybe justafraid to touch on in case like
it's sensitive or, you know, andI, and
Kimber (09:25):
To actually like go there and ask the question.
Jaclyn (09:28):
Yeah.
But to not be afraid.
To just be like, how is itreally going?
And is there anything that youlike.
Wanted to talk about or is thereanything you wanna ask me?
And I think that's, so that'sjust huge.
So I, I had that model to me,you know, in my first postpartum
season.
And so I think it's so importantto be willing to just like,
reach into the fog, like I thinkmy experience as a new mom, like
(09:50):
I was happy for anybody's time,anybody interested in seeing how
I was doing and m an informationgatherer anyway, so I love to
hear about other people'sexperiences and I appreciated,
you know, more seasoned momsbeing willing to reach out and
say, Hey, how is it going?
And do you wanna talk aboutthings?
Kimber (10:07):
Right, right.
I am such an informationgatherer too, and so I think
that is something that Iappreciate as well.
I love how you said and I wannatouch on that a little bit.
Like the idea of it not beinginvasive, but still like asking
those more specific questions,like how have you seen it done
well and like where do, where doyou think the line is?
(10:30):
Like where we air intoinvasiveness?
Like how do you walk that line,do you think?
Jaclyn (10:36):
Oh yeah, I'm not sure.
I always do it perfectly.
That's something that I'm stilltrying to learn and grow in, and
it's different for each of ourfriends and sisters too, like
that line.
So being in community, being ina relationship, close enough,
you know, we just talked abouthow you don't have to be close
to reach in and love somebody,but like knowing them well
(10:57):
enough at some point to.
Know how they would need to beloved, I guess, and know, you
know, I don't think you have toknow anybody super, super well
to understand what they mightfeel, is completely off bound
you know?
Kimber (11:11):
Yeah.
Like just kind of theirpersonality, like comfort level
maybe.
Jaclyn (11:15):
Yeah.
but then just kinda like workinginto things slowly too, cuz some
people, once you just start toask like, how's it going?
They'll be like, oh, it's sogreat.
Or like, well, I'm reallystruggling.
And, you know, some people aremore willing to talk about
things and ask questions and,just being there to listen
genuinely, just listen to themwhere they're at, I think can
lead you into where they'rewilling to go, I guess.
Kimber (11:37):
right.
And I suppose like there'salways the possibility that
they'll be like, I'm fine,thanks.
Like, you know what I mean?
And like that's a cue that wecan take you know?
Jaclyn (11:47):
Right.
Kimber (11:48):
You know, because it's like, yeah, that's true.
It's true.
Right,
Jaclyn (11:52):
they don't wanna talk about it.
Yeah.
Kimber (11:54):
right.
And so I think it's like alsobeing okay with that and not not
needing anything back.
Because that was something Ithink that I did really
appreciate as well duringpostpartum time was like, if.
Someone offered something.
A lot of times I didn't feellike I had something to give
back.
Whether it was even just like a,Hey, I'm thinking of you and the
(12:17):
best people who said that.
I was like, I know if I don'tever text them back, they're,
they still meant it, you know,like they don't need the
validation, um, of, oh, thankyou so much for checking on me,
whatever.
but like to just be able tooffer our support to the people
in our lives in that timewithout expecting anything back
(12:38):
from them.
And then if they want to like,you know, open up to us, it just
sort of clicked for me to dowith you then great.
Like, we can be there, but tonot expect that to happen or be
offended, you know, if itdoesn't, I think can help
Protecting against that too.
So you said that like your firsttwo postpartum times were pretty
different, mainlycircumstantially, right?
(13:02):
Like kind of based on, thesupport that you had, where you
were at, what was going on justin the world even.
Um, what about with your newestone?
What has your, your postpartumtime been like with her?
Or how was it like with her?
Jaclyn (13:15):
so Naomi was born in the same place that Liam was.
We've been here now almost threeand a half years, and.
So fast forward from being freshand brand new in our life group
and our church, and we've spent,two and a half more years
building into, um, our communityhere.
And it was really night and day.
(13:36):
And some of that I'm sure is dueto the fact that, like you
alluded to with Judah, likeCovid was not like, it's here
still, it's a thing, but it'snot the way it was in the
beginning.
Um, so this was a very differentexperience because we had more
community developed and.
You know, with Liam, I reallyhad a bit of bitterness, I, we
(13:59):
had had Mike and Alaska awayfrom a lot of my, you know,
friends from growing up and myfamily and my parents and my
sister and Alex family andeverybody was back here.
And so when we had made thedecision that it was right to
move and then we're expectinganother, it was like so much
excitement for doing, doing itall again with you know, with
(14:19):
our families close and with ourolder friends.
And, and then it just, I
Kimber (14:24):
It didn't happen.
Jaclyn (14:25):
Robbed of that.
Yeah.
In some ways.
And so, no, it didn't, you know,ruin the experience, um, the joy
that comes with a new baby, butthere was just, there was just a
lot of layers to that one Andso, having the chance to have
everybody more involved thistime around, it's not
necessarily been easy.
(14:47):
She's a different baby.
And so it's not allcircumstantial, right?
Like, it's not just about what'saround us.
Um, and also going from two tothree has been, a very different
experience than zero to one orone to two.
And everybody has their opinionsabout what's easiest and all
that.
But,
Kimber (15:02):
yeah.
Jaclyn (15:03):
somewhere, somewhere in the middle, I guess, because it
Kimber (15:05):
Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn (15:06):
maybe as simple as it was with Micah, but definitely
not so isolating and fearful insome ways as
Kimber (15:14):
Right.
Yeah.
I can imagine.
how do you think it's impactedyou?
Like now that this is your thirdtime going through that, almost
aside from like uniqueness ofbaby and like uniqueness of
circumstances, but like for you,just as a person, you know what
I mean?
Like you as a mom, like this isyour third time doing something
(15:35):
that's really hard and, And alsolike incredible, but like, just
wild that that's, you know, whatwomen go through.
Like, it's crazy to me.
how do you think that you arelike different this time around,
you know, almost like outside ofcircumstances even?
Jaclyn (15:52):
Yeah.
I was thinking about this alittle bit earlier and how the
postpartum season this timearound felt different.
Because it's not like inisolation,
Kimber (16:05):
Hmm.
Jaclyn (16:05):
it's contiguous with motherhood now.
It's not like I have two othersthat I'm caring for and loving
on.
And so it's not, I guess, such aclear period of like still a
time period.
I'm not describing it well,
Kimber (16:22):
but it's not like, everything stops,
Jaclyn (16:25):
right, exactly.
And there's no like sleep whenthe baby sleeps and like
Kimber (16:30):
Right,
Jaclyn (16:31):
take this amount of time and just like heal and rest and
it's like, just doesn't, it'snot like that after the first
time
Kimber (16:37):
Yeah, yeah,
Jaclyn (16:39):
yeah, just figuring out what that looks like and how to
still get quality time with bothof my boys while still being.
Responsible primarily.
Well, I talked to you some aboutthe whole bottle refusal bit.
So being exclusivelyirresponsible, you
Kimber (16:56):
Yes, yes,
Jaclyn (16:58):
Naomi and also wanting to bond in the same way with her
that I did with the boys.
But like the reality is there'sonly 24 hours in a day
Kimber (17:06):
yes.
Jaclyn (17:07):
um,
Kimber (17:08):
of
Jaclyn (17:08):
more little people needing Yeah, it's more little
people needing me, so, It's hardto compare the first postpartum
season to the current, eventhough it's the same experience
in a lot of ways.
I'm just different.
Kimber (17:21):
But it's so different.
Yeah.
And you're a different person aswell, right?
Hmm.
Yeah.
it's interesting to me too, likehow like all the, the ways that
we tell first time moms to like,take care of themselves, are
sort of not applicable um, this,that second and third time.
(17:44):
So like, how have you,Jacqueline, is it like a, just
make it through or like, haveyou, found any ways, or like how
do you kind of take care of yourheart and like maintain
steadiness, you know, with youand just.
Balance in your life, you know,as a human being who needs,
(18:06):
like, has needs and needs, like,you know, quiet time and like
sleep and, you know, self-care.
Like, is that just like a pausefor you, you know what I mean?
Or does it look just differentand smaller and briefer Maybe?
Like what have, how have youlearned to kind of take care of
yourself in this
Jaclyn (18:25):
Yeah.
I think you just hit on itperfectly like I'm learning, I'm
still learning and still growingeach time.
how to like advocate well formyself and what I need.
Cuz sometimes it's easier tojust like, put your head down
and do, do, do and then find
Kimber (18:41):
Like, I'm just gonna get through this.
Right.
Jaclyn (18:44):
Right.
and I, I recently heard somebodytalk about, they called the lie
of perfection and how it robs usof progress.
And this is like, you know, if Ican't have an uninterrupted 30
minutes or an hour of quiet timeand prayer, like why bother?
I'm not even gonna start.
Or like, if I can't stickperfectly to this workout plan,
(19:05):
like it doesn't even make sense.
Like why try, why try?
Like I'm learning how to usesmall pockets of time in my day
intentionally.
Whether that's getting qualitytime with my boys, like, you
know, the gauging who needs whatand when, like, and where my
tank is at.
Like, just do my kids need me
Kimber (19:23):
Which isn't gonna be the
Jaclyn (19:24):
More than Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
and asking Alec to help me seewhen I need, what I don't maybe
know that I need yet.
You know, like, uh, can you justgimme, gimme a little bump and
say like, please go take a walkor something like that.
If you see that that's somethingI need and I'm like not
recognizing it, you know, so,
Kimber (19:46):
And that can feel so hard in the moment too.
like, like, what are you saying,
Jaclyn (19:51):
right.
I'll dare you.
How dare you care for me.
It's so true though.
Yeah.
So just, just like releasing, myschedule and the desire for
like, things to go a certain wayand what I think.
Perfection looks like in theseason, like just, it's kind of
a minute to minute assessment oflike, who needs what and when
can I fit in what I need tonourish my soul, you know?
Kimber (20:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like that is such, man,it sounds really hard, but
probably a good exercise forthose of us who really like,
control and structure and
Jaclyn (20:25):
Yep.
Kimber (20:25):
I think the thing that always comes back to me with my
relationship with God is liketrust and letting go of control.
And so, I'm sure that motherhoodis a way that he is working that
out in me.
I'm
Jaclyn (20:37):
Yeah.
Leaning into it and justexperiencing the growth of
Kimber (20:42):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (20:42):
being pushed outside
Kimber (20:44):
Right.
Right.
And not always having things theway I want them.
even too.
Yeah.
You mentioned like allowing yourspouse to care for you, which
makes me think of our friends,like how we allow our friends to
care for us in this season.
And so I would love to hear yourside of maybe this time a little
more.
You said you've been withcommunity, a little bit more
(21:05):
than you were able to with Liam,and then also maybe with Micah,
you know, how did people blessyou most during your postpartum
time?
Like thinking really practicallyhere too, like, how can we lean
in to support our friends duringthis time in a way that is most
loving, most helpful.
I think that depends a bit onthe person, like you said.
(21:26):
I think that's really importantto remember.
but I think there's alsoprobably some trends that we can
see, of how we can like lean inhere and support people through
this really unique time.
So what comes to mind for youthere?
Like what blesses you most fromyour friends when you're in the,
the newborn stage, would yousay?
Jaclyn (21:45):
Um, I think for me it's time is a big one.
so after I had Micah, um, wewere living in Eagle River and I
had a dear friend who didn'thave kids yet.
She has two of her own now.
Um, and she worked on base andas a nurse.
And, um, at least weekly,sometimes more, would reach out
to me and just be like, Hey, canI stop in on my way home from
(22:08):
work and bring cookies?
Or can I come and like, Haveiced tea with you on the deck,
and she would come and spend herprecious time with us.
And since she's had her ownkids, many times she has come to
me and said, I just can'tbelieve I didn't do more for
you.
I had no idea what you weregoing through.
I just, but she, I didn't feellike that.
(22:29):
Like
Kimber (22:29):
yeah.
You felt like it was such a,yeah.
Jaclyn (22:32):
she was blessing me coming and like loving on Micah
and just bringing a smile andspending time with me.
So, and that's, you know, maybelike a, a specific person, love
language kind of thing.
But I just, um, that was reallyprecious and we have such
Kimber (22:48):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (22:49):
that time.
Um, and even now as it's gottenbusier and, many of my friends
here now have kids also.
And so it's not, you know, timeis a.
A premium when you're caring forlittle people, Um, so even
something just as small asfeeling seen, like a text
message like, Hey, I wasthinking about you, or I saw
this and it's made me think ofyou.
(23:09):
Or How did so-and-so'sappointment go or whatever.
Just knowing that you're beingthought of, and that someone's
taking the time to either dropby with a meal or coffee or
something as simple as justsending a message saying,
thinking about you,
Kimber (23:23):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (23:24):
a meal provision has been huge for us.
Just huge.
and I'm someone who likes tocook, but where that time just
doesn't seem to be there.
It's just, that's such apractical way to.
love on a whole family too, youknow, bringing nutritious
homemade food or not sonutritious, favorite takeout,
like whatever it is.
(23:45):
Um, and providing that is just,that has been a huge blessing
for us too in all of, all of myexperiences with postpartum,
Kimber (23:53):
I think it's really good that you mentioned, well, the
quality time thing might just belike some people's thing, but
like, you know, the concept oflove languages, right?
Like, that, those apply to ourfriendships too, like how we
receive love from our friends.
And so I, I feel like it's likethe newborn stage is just what
you know.
(24:14):
about how to care for yourfriends.
They're just needier during thattime.
It's like their needs are justheightened.
So whatever, you know, blessesthem.
Normally.
how can you heighten that inlike your attention?
Maybe, but not in, maybe, uh,like how much it is for, like,
what I mean by that is like yourfriend came by consistently,
(24:36):
like regularly, but it's notlike she stayed for hours.
right?
Am I understanding that like,Right.
Because as you say, like time isa premium, but it's like, you
know, so how can I like maybeintensify my care but in a way
that isn't burdensome?
Um, like that is, is reallybeautiful.
(24:57):
Like for me, I think that I feelreally loved when my needs get
met by my friends and like, youknow, maybe that's like, you
know, need for company orsomething, but maybe it's also
just like, yeah, like I needdinner tonight and I don't have
the energy or time to do it.
and so those kind of liketangibly meeting that really
(25:19):
blesses me.
But it's like, it's just such atime when I think you don't have
a lot to give back.
And so I think whatever it is,like, you know how to love on
your friend doing it with.
Like zero expectations back foraffirmation or like
encouragement, like, man,Jacqueline, I took a meal to a
girl who just had a baby theother day and she's a rockstar.
(25:42):
She wrote me a thank you note, Ithink within like two days.
And I was just like, girl,you're incredible.
Like I wouldn't have eventhought to
Jaclyn (25:54):
know.
Like please don't spend yourtime writing me.
Kimber (25:56):
Oh man.
Different again, different lovelanguages, But I was like, wow,
you're amazing.
But like, I think, you know,those kind of things can't be
like, we can't expect that,right?
Like because, and there'll be aday when you know your friend
isn't as needy again.
Of course.
Like, but like what an honor togive like extra attention.
(26:18):
to your friend during that time,whatever it is.
So I love that.
One other thing that I rememberreally distinctly from my
postpartum time that blessed mewas, I'm kind of a scaredy cat.
Like I'm a chicken and, um,adventure doesn't really, like,
I enjoy adventure.
Uh, if I feel safe, it, itdoesn't like excite me to be in
(26:38):
danger.
And with a newborn, everythingfelt dangerous to me.
and so, right.
Yes.
Did, have you heard that dealabout the amygdala, your fear
center of your brain growing?
Oh my gosh.
I try to tell that to everyfriend I meet who's a new mom,
because friends listening, ifyou don't know when you get
(27:01):
pregnant, have a baby.
Your amygdala, your fear center.
can grow up to 30% bigger.
Like it's biological that youwill have more fear as a mom.
And so, you know, and it's likewe learned to manage that, I
think, and it changes, but like,that is just a fact.
That's what happens.
And so, so it's like combatingthat.
(27:24):
And I had a couple friends whowere really intentional with me
about like, helping me get outof the house, like with itty
bitty baby, and like, okay,we're gonna go on an adventure
and that adventure is going toget ice cream.
Like you know, we're like goingfor a walk at the lake.
Like it's the, the scale was notlarge, but it was still like
(27:44):
having a friend to do that kindof thing with it made me feel
more brave.
And so that was something thatreally blessed me was like,
okay, like I see so-and-so doingthis, like, or they're gonna do
it with me.
And so, Not feeling as, I thinkalone in, in trying to conquer
the obstacles, but havingsomeone was like, yeah, like
(28:05):
I'll go get ice cream with you.
You know?
It's not a big deal to me, butlike, sh I know it's a big deal
to you, you know?
So do you feel like youexperience that with First Baby,
it's probably different afteryou've had one, like, but just
the newness of it with Micah,did you experience that like
struggle to get out and go dothings?
(28:27):
Or was that not as much yourchallenge?
And if not, what would you saywas like the biggest challenge
for you with your firstpostpartum time?
What felt the hardest?
Jaclyn (28:37):
Oh gosh.
this is probably mostlycircumstantial.
Again, because of where we livedon Hannah Jane there in Eagle
River and where our clinic was,where Alec was working.
I found it easy to get outactually because everything was
so walkable.
Kimber (28:56):
Yeah,
Jaclyn (28:57):
it was.
Less than half a mile to get tothe clinic where I knew Alec was
and I was welcome there becauseI was
Kimber (29:04):
yeah.
You worked there
Jaclyn (29:05):
you know, a full-time employee before I had Micah and,
so many
Kimber (29:09):
that was like a close
Jaclyn (29:11):
safe.
Kimber (29:12):
yes.
Yeah.
Jaclyn (29:15):
place.
that and having like four coffeehuts I could walk to from the
house,
Kimber (29:20):
yes.
God bless Alaska.Yay.
Jaclyn (29:23):
right.
Pop'em in the stroller and getout.
and that, and like leads me tothink about the way that my
experience with Naomi has beendifferent than the boys.
Cuz Micah and Liam were born,birthdays are just four days
apart.
So end of February, beginning ofMarch, and so in Alaska, coming
out of the darkness, coming
Kimber (29:41):
Yes.
Jaclyn (29:42):
the warmth
Kimber (29:44):
Yes.
Jaclyn (29:45):
Just kind of, kind of just as like the fog is clearing
from that immediate postpartumnewborn stage.
That was huge.
And having Naomi in November,
Kimber (29:55):
right.
Going into the
Jaclyn (29:56):
dark as Alaska here it was, it was hard.
Kimber (30:01):
Still winter.
Yeah.
Jaclyn (30:02):
No.
Yes.
Not my favorite thing becausealso having two other kids to
like bundle, before you getoutside, you can't just be like,
okay, out the back door like
Kimber (30:12):
right?
Popper in the car seat, like,yeah.
Jaclyn (30:16):
yeah.
it's so like bundling thenewborn, but bundling the other
two and then like hoping thatyou get more than five minutes
of happy kids outside
Kimber (30:24):
55 minutes later, we're finally ready to go outside for
five minutes.
Like
Jaclyn (30:29):
Yeah, So, that changed the experience very much in
terms of how easy it was for meto get out and.
Be brave enough to take, youknow, all of them by myself.
Um, so that was a challenge thistime.
That wasn't as much the firsttime for me.
Kimber (30:47):
Yeah.
Hey, Fred, forgive me for takinga quick moment in this
conversation to ask a favor ofyou.
I hope my conversation withJacqueline is blessing you
today.
And if so, as you take a momentto rate and review the show on
apple podcasts.
Reviews are so helpful inbringing new friends to the
(31:07):
show.
And I love reading what isblessing you from the podcast?
You can find the leak to leave areview the description of this
episode.
So thank you so much for takinga second to do that.
And it let's get back to theshow.
Would you say that you haveexperienced loneliness during
the newborn stage particularly,and if so, what has that looked
(31:32):
like for you?
Because isolating, I think forsure.
How do you think like lonelinessplays into that or, or did it
for you?
Jaclyn (31:41):
You know, I can see the way that God, the ways that God
has provided for me in each ofmy postpartum seasons, and it's
been different.
but after Liam, I definitelyfelt loneliness.
We had, you know, moved to thisnew place and I didn't have as
many relationships to,experience in person.
But I had a very good friendwho, she lives in Michigan and
(32:02):
she had a baby her first, just afew months after I had Liam.
And having that sharedexperience, like on steroids,
you know, because of all of thenewness and the fear, the start
of the pandemic.
Kimber (32:17):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (32:18):
Relationship was just such a blessing to me because we
were able to, um, we talked allthe time, we were reading the
Bible together and, justencouraging one another,
constantly having that sharedstage, but
Kimber (32:31):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (32:32):
me feeling like trying with all my might to like speak
love and truth into her havingher first baby in that season
too.
And just like, it's gonna beokay, this is gonna end at some
point or it's going to taper,right.
And like, you're gonna getthrough this and it's gonna be
Kimber (32:48):
get better.
Yeah.
Jaclyn (32:49):
Yes.
you know, I f I find that,sometimes when I am struggling
or I'm feeling just reallyturned inwards, like one of the
best ways to kind of snap out ofit is to like, Somebody else to
focus on, right?
Like find somebody else toserve.
Kimber (33:03):
true.
Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn (33:04):
also, a really just like constructive way I think, that
God gave me to like, processthrough what was happening and
Kimber (33:11):
Yeah, because you can pour into her.
Yeah.
Jaclyn (33:15):
Yeah.
Kimber (33:16):
Hmm.
I love that.
like one of the most powerfulthings that can combat our
loneliness is like movingtowards people rather than just
staying in that isolation andwallowing in it, you know?
And, yeah.
Jaclyn (33:28):
I think Satan really wants us to believe that we're
alone, you know?
And he'll really like, Nurturethat fear in us, that nobody
understands exactly what we'regoing through and our
experiences are truly ours.
And that, nobody can relate.
And so just having thatawareness of God has designed us
for community, we're supposed tobe doing this together no matter
(33:49):
what season we're in, whetherit's a season of heartache and
loneliness and drought or joy.
And so it's hard in the moment,you know, but seeing that and
calling it out, like, no, I'mnot gonna accept this.
Kimber (34:03):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (34:03):
And, letting people reach in and bless you.
And at the same time, as much ofa struggle as it can be is
trying to initiate contact andtrying to like, Recognize what
you might need at the time andfigure out who speaks life into
you and truth over you, and likelet them do that,
Kimber (34:20):
Yeah.
You said that like, you know,that fear of like, no one can
relate to my unique situationbecause it is like, it's all
different for us.
Like at the very least, like allof our, you know, babies are
different.
All of our experiences withbirth are different, like
feelings about it are certainlydifferent, you know, and, I
think it's the differencebetween, like, I may not
(34:42):
understand.
how you're feeling exactly inthis moment, but I can still
relate to you.
Or even if I can't even takethat step and I, I actually
can't relate to you.
That doesn't mean that thereisn't like value in your
relationship with that person.
Like one group of people thatI'm thinking about with this
conversation is when you havefriends who have not gone
(35:05):
through, you know, the newbornphase, like friends who don't
have kids yet.
those friendships are stillvaluable, to us during this
time.
But I feel like the enemy, atleast before I had kids, when I
would have a friend who had ababy, what I would hear, I feel
like was.
Oh.
Like, because you don't knowwhat she's going through.
Your friendship is not valuableto her here.
(35:28):
And like, I might be able tobring her a meal, but that's
about all I have to offer her.
And I just think that that's sonot true.
um, having like gone through itnow, like my friends who don't
have kids are such a blessing tome.
One, because they have a lot,you know, different freedoms
that, friends who have kidsdon't necessarily have, like,
(35:50):
that is different and you canlike, they can love on me in
ways that my friends with kidscan't, you know?
And so to me I'm like, why wasthat something that I believed?
But it's totally the enemytrying to, you know, make me
feel insecure and believe thatthat friendship is somehow
stunted because we don't have ashared experience anymore.
But man, I don't think, I don'tthink that's true.
(36:13):
So, How have you seen, like,your relationship with friends
who don't have kids, how havethey blessed you, through your
time as a mom?
Jaclyn (36:22):
I'm so grateful for friends who don't have children
yet who are still wanting tospend time with me.
Like,
Kimber (36:29):
Yes.
A
Jaclyn (36:30):
too that I'm like, again, back to the love
languages, but like the, the,the time spent to communicate,
like You know, you were, youwere saying having that
insecurity as someone who hadn'tyet gone through the experience
and having kids, but from theside of having
Kimber (36:48):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (36:49):
and still desiring time with friends who don't, that
insecurity of like, oh, am I,
Kimber (36:54):
You don't wanna hang out with me anymore,
Jaclyn (36:56):
Yes.
To like, to work around my kids'schedules or to like, whatever,
be patient, like to come to mebecause my baby might wake up 40
minutes into the night.
Like, am I, yeah.
Like, am I still valuable enoughto you
Kimber (37:10):
Hmm.
Jaclyn (37:10):
make that work?
And, that's going back to Jackieis my friend who visited me.
You know, it's like, that was, Ithink, why that was such a
powerful state.
To me of her, just the fact thatshe wanted to spend time with me
and like my four month old, likeas opposed to rush home and like
go for a hike or I don't know,things that at the time to me
(37:31):
would've maybe, again, this is alie, would've brought more value
to her life.
Clearly she didn't see it thatway,
Kimber (37:36):
right.
Yeah, absolutely.
For the friend I was talkingabout who like, you know, made
me get out and like, we went andstarted to do things that made
me feel like, okay, I can dothis.
Um, same thing.
She didn't have kids and she's.
a awesome adventure lady.
Like she could, go do lots ofother way cooler things, then
spend her time doing that.
And so it, was such a gift to mebecause it was like, okay, I
(37:59):
know this is not cool andprobably not very exciting for
you, but like, yeah, it showslove and like, ah, man, just rec
receiving like that is somethingthat I feel like when you're not
in a time of need, you don'thave to experience the humility
of that as much because it'slike you can meet someone where
(38:19):
they're at, you know?
And like you can go do thethings, but it's like when
you're in this time when youdon't have the ability to do
that in the same way and someonestill comes and meets you there,
even though you know that theycould be doing a lot of other
things.
Yeah.
It's like, it's love.
It's love, it's cool.
So, Jacqueline, as we kind ofwrap up our conversation here, I
(38:41):
feel like we have three groupsof people that I would love to
hear kind of just yourencouragement for here.
Like, the first one that I thinkof is a friend listening that we
were just talking about whodoesn't have her own kids.
She's not, uh, gone through thepostpartum time.
What do you think that she needsto know to be encouraged to keep
(39:02):
showing up for her friends asthey have kids and walk through
that postpartum time?
Like what would you say to herto encourage her in that effort?
Jaclyn (39:10):
Yeah, I'll go back to what you kind of said about
knowing our friends well enoughto know how to love them before
this season.
Similarly, like knowing thegifts of love and service that
you have, even if you can'tunderstand their season in an
its entirety, like trusting thatGod will use what you have to
bless them when you have theheart to do that.
(39:31):
Um, don't be afraid of thecrazy, don't be afraid of the
hormones, really.
They speak loudly sometimes and
Kimber (39:37):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (39:38):
just, don't feel inadequate to love a friend
who's going through this seasonjust because you haven't
experienced it yet.
Kimber (39:45):
Yeah.
Because they have so much togive.
They really do.
Yes.
You have so much to give as afriend, just not even, yeah.
Anything to do with yourcircumstance.
Yeah.
I love that.
What about for our friendlistening though, who has been
through it?
Because I think it can also beon the flip side, it's like we
talked a little bit about thatfine line of like being
(40:06):
invasive, you know, or offeringtoo many opinions, you know, do
you think we.
Moms who have gone through thepostpartum phase, what do we
need to like remember to loveour friends well, who are going
through it for their uniqueexperience.
You know what I mean?
Because like you said, likeevery single experience of yours
(40:26):
was different, not only becauseof the differences of baby and
you, but like circumstantial.
Like, you know, how could wepossibly speak into this
situation because it's all sodifferent.
But I think we can, so what doyou think we need to remember
when we have gone through it?
Jaclyn (40:42):
Yeah.
I think just, it sounds sobasic, but just listening
genuinely, like we talked about,being information gathers.
Just because I wanna hear abouteverybody's experiences and
their opinions doesn't mean thateverybody wants to hear about my
experience and my opinions.
So like, recognizing that theirseason.
The second, third, fourth,however many times likely isn't
(41:03):
gonna be like any of their ownprior experiences, let alone my
experience.
And
Kimber (41:09):
Right?
Jaclyn (41:09):
just being an ear, I guess, and like, don't be afraid
to ask, like, would it behelpful to hear about my
experiences or do you just,should I be a listening ear?
Can I bring coffee?
Do you wanna just talk like, andnot, I don't, yeah.
I don't know.
Just, releasing the pressure oftrying to fix things.
Um, just because you haveexperience with it doesn't,
Doesn't mean that's productiveor what they're
Kimber (41:30):
right.
I'm such a natural fixer, and sothat has been such an exercise
for me, like learning to justask that question, like you
said, like would it be helpfulfor me to share my experience
here or.
would you just like me to listenhere or are you looking for
solutions?
Like, you know, whatever it is.
I think just like, yeah, askingthat question really, like
(41:51):
frankly can be just wise,because then I think we're less
likely to offer unhelpful,unhelpful advice.
Yeah.
Jaclyn (42:00):
And sometimes I think they might not even really know
what they're looking for untilmaybe you offer that clarified
question that's like, oh,actually
Kimber (42:08):
Yeah.
I would love to hear that.
Or
Jaclyn (42:09):
me about it?
Yeah.
Or like, actually, yeah, maybeyou're right.
I just need you to listen to meas
Kimber (42:14):
Right,
Jaclyn (42:15):
or whatever.
Kimber (42:16):
right.
That's good.
And speaking of the blubbering,um, what about our friend who
they're like, yeah, like I am inthis right now, like I am in the
postpartum season.
My brain is crazy, my emotionsare crazy.
Like it's all over the place.
You know, and everyone hasdifferent opinions about the
newborn stage, right?
(42:36):
Like my, I guess if I seem likeI'm talking a little, like
negatively about it, it'sbecause I did not really like
the newborn stage I love mybaby, but I like him more now.
It's like, that's just the factand, and everyone's, everyone's
experience is different.
Like, I know lots of people lovethe newborn stage.
And so,
Jaclyn (42:55):
Mm-hmm.
Kimber (42:56):
I think I, I tend to maybe talk down on it a little
bit just because that was myexperience.
So, you know, just recognizingthat everyone's is different.
But, um, regardless we can allagree.
I think that it is wild.
Like it's all over the place,whether you love it or you, you
hate it.
Like it's all over the place.
What would you say tonight toencourage a friend who's in it
(43:20):
and they just are feeling reallylonely and like isolated and
just like, man, this is myreality right now and I just
need someone.
how would you encourage hertoday?
What do you think?
Jaclyn (43:32):
Yeah.
I mean, this is hard in its ownway because sometimes it can
just feel like another, anotherthing you have to take care of.
But, having done it three times,like just reach out.
Like, think of somebody whomakes you feel loved and safe
and someone who speaks truthinto your
Kimber (43:50):
Hmm
Jaclyn (43:50):
And like, just be vulnerable or don't even at
first, like just start theconversation.
Just reach out.
let somebody love on you.
Community is huge like this.
We've just been talking abouthow, we're just, we're not meant
to do this alone.
And also it's okay to feel.
One moment, like I love thisnewborn stage and they're so
(44:11):
squishy and perfect and I neverwant it to end.
And then the next moment like,this is so hard.
And those feelings can coexist.
Kimber (44:18):
Which is
Jaclyn (44:19):
it's okay.
Yeah.
It's okay if you're like, thisis so great.
But also I can't wait till it'sover
Kimber (44:26):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (44:27):
Um, and so yeah, I know I hesitate to kinda hesitate to
say that because it just feelslike, oh, it's just more work to
like be the one to initiate.
So I guess it's kind of atwofold answer.
Speaking to everybody else too,like if you know somebody who
just had a baby in the last fewmonths or a year even, I know
where they live, how close youare to them.
(44:49):
Like, we've talked about this,please just reach out and.
Let them know you're thinkingabout them and see how they're
doing.
And because sometimes it's justhard being the one in it when
you're like thinking about whenyou need to feed the baby next
and how many dirty diapersthey've had and what your
toddler's doing in next room.
It's hard to be like, what can Ido to help take care of myself?
(45:09):
Like,
Kimber (45:09):
yeah.
We need those
Jaclyn (45:11):
to have people.
Kimber (45:12):
Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn (45:13):
to speak truth over you and,
Kimber (45:16):
Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn (45:17):
um, something else I feel just kind of strongly about
because it's been very true forme and all of mine, and I think
it's, obviously, it's notuncommon because it's
biological, but hormones arereal and the swings and the fear
and the elation and like justyou feel crazy.
Right.
Um, I guess just reassurancethat like, It's normal and it's
(45:39):
okay.
And like your emotions don'thave to rule you.
It feels like they do.
But no storm lasts forever andyour body's doing what it needs
to do and so you will feelequilibrium once again.
Kimber (45:52):
And I think that's such like the help of connecting with
someone because it's like areminder of like, it's like you
see the level and you're like,okay, that's the, the standard
there.
Or like that's, what the levelis.
And it's not to like compareyourself to them, but it's just
to be reminded that like, youknow, sometimes what seems like
(46:14):
reality, at least to me, whatseemed like reality at 1:00 AM
when I was like, I've beentrying to go to bed for five
hours, you know, Like, that maynot be reality.
What feels like my emotionalreality there.
And so just to be reminded that,it's okay, but it also, like
what I'm thinking in this momentmight not be true, you know?
(46:36):
And so to, yeah, to have someoneto like speak that truth over
you and remind you that whatyou're experiencing is normal,
but like what is true in themidst of that can be so
powerful, um, to just like helpyou.
Hold on.
Yeah.
Absolutely, man.
(46:57):
Jacqueline, I love talking toyou today about this.
There's, something just reallyspecial I feel like about, being
able to look back on a stage andrealize like, the people that
got you through it.
And that is just like the giftof reflection, I think, and to
be able to look back.
(47:17):
And so, um, I'm so thankful forhow you helped me through my
postpartum time and, um, I lovewhat you shared about those who
helped you through yours.
And I just am praying forfriends listening that they
would, be able to either reflecton the people who helped them
through theirs and like tellthem because it's such a
(47:37):
blessing to hear that kind ofthing, I think.
Um, and if, and for those whoare in it to lean on your people
because man, that's the waythrough it.
Yeah.
man.
Jacqueline, thank you so muchfor talking
Jaclyn (47:49):
And thank you for having me on
Kimber (47:51):
I loved it.
Yeah, it was so fun.
Well, I'm gonna let you go cuzit is nighttime for you.
You got that baby to bed, AndI'm gonna let you go.
Enjoy your well earned, rest.
So thank you so much, friend.
Fred.
(48:11):
I'm so glad you could joinJacqueline and I this week on
the, your sister Kimber podcast.
Loli is going to be present atany season, but thinking about
how we can love our friends.
Well, in particular seasons canbe such a blessing.
I think.
And if we're thinking reallypractical for blessing Fred's in
a particularly stressful seasonMy new digital resource, maybe
just the tool you need to getthe details.
(48:32):
It's called 20 facts to knowabout your friends.
And these are the kinds ofthings that are just going to
give you the fodder to bless andlove on them.
In tangible ways.
It's a free PDF.
You can download it either printor text to a friend to fill out
for you.
Then save those ideas at yourphone under their contact card
for when you need it.
You can get this resource on mywebsite, which is linked in the
(48:52):
description of this episode.
And if you haven't yet joined mynewsletter crew, will you visit
your sister kipper.com tosubscribe?
When you subscribe, you get myweekly newsletter directly to
your email inbox, with a previewof what will be featured on the
podcast that week, plus a linkto this month's blog posts and
some other resources and tips tohelp you grow friendships, honor
God and diary closer to Jesus.
(49:13):
I hope it blesses you.
Fred.
Thanks so much for being part ofthis could be ditty until next
time.
It is your sister.
hey friends.
Welcome to the, your sisterKimber podcast.
My name is Kimberly Gilbert, andI'm so glad you're here.
Friendship is hard enough whenlife is steady, right.
But with the newborn phase comesnot only adjusting to a new
little life as part of yourworld, but also just the ups and
downs of postpartum emotions.
(00:30):
Healing and just the regularneeds of life that keep on
coming.
My friend Jacqueline is a mamaof three and just emerging from
the newborn stage with herthird.
And today we're chatting aboutthe loneliness that can come for
mama's during this unique time.
We talk about the challengesthat keep us isolated.
During the newborn phase, howfriends can bless us and even
(00:52):
what our friends who aren'tmamas need to know to love on
your friends during this time ofneed.
Even if you haven't experiencedit yourself.
I hope our toxic day helps yougrow authentic community around
you and friendships that honorGod and draw closer to Jesus.
No matter what stage of lifeyou're walking in right now.
I wish we could grab coffee withJacqueline for our talk today,
but this is the next best thing.
(01:13):
I'm so glad you're here, friend.
Let's get started.
Hey, Jacqueline
Jaclyn (01:22):
Hey, Kimber.
Kimber (01:24):
how are you?
How are you
Jaclyn (01:25):
I'm doing well.
How are you?
Kimber (01:27):
Yeah, I'm, I'm good.
We have only had to reschedulethis talk, I think three, two or
three times.
Yeah, Which makes sense becausewe're talking about the newborn
stage today.
Right.
And so, although your excuse wasrelated to that, you had some
sleep regression drama that weworked through.
(01:49):
Um, we just had the sicknessthat went through our house,
but, we made it.
I'm so excited to finally be
Jaclyn (01:56):
the other side.
Kimber (01:57):
yes, would you just go ahead and get started by
introducing yourself to ourfriends listening?
Jaclyn (02:03):
yeah.
My name is Jacqueline.
My husband's name is Alec.
Um, we are both physicaltherapists.
We met, I met Kimber and Sean inAlaska when we lived there, and
we've since moved.
I've got three little guys now,two boys and a little girl who's
new who just had her sleepregression.
So
Kimber (02:22):
So fun.
Jaclyn (02:23):
to talk about all the postpartum things and
Kimber (02:26):
Yeah.
You've done it three times now,which does it get easier or is
it just different every time?
Jaclyn (02:32):
Yeah, I think it's just easier, right?
There's no rule that, like thefirst one has to be the hardest.
Kimber (02:37):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (02:37):
in fact, that was not my experience at all.
Kimber (02:39):
Mm
Jaclyn (02:40):
Micah was my first ahead, him in Alaska, um, in
2018.
And, you know, he'd been therefor two years and.
We had a great community and anamazing church and fantastic
employers and we just had tonsof support.
and so it was really, I'll sayeasy as if like any postpartum
seasons ever easy, you know, um,we just had a lot of support.
(03:03):
And then, um, Liam is my second,he just turned three, so I had
Liam, in 2020.
And
Kimber (03:11):
Which wasn't
Jaclyn (03:11):
you know, we had, and
Kimber (03:12):
And then Yeah.
Jaclyn (03:14):
yeah, so we had left Alaska in 2019 and moved, spent
three months in two differentstates each.
And then we had just bought ahouse in it's brand new town
and, kind of gotten settled,like we found a church and we
had been to a few sessions witha small group.
And
Kimber (03:30):
Hmm.
Jaclyn (03:31):
Had Liam and two weeks later our lockdown started.
And so, we were really fresh inthe area and it was a very
different experience.
we had some family nearby, butyou know, we weren't even really
seeing them for a period oftime.
And so not having a lot of,community here, it was, that was
very, very different.
Kimber (03:52):
And I feel like if, cuz Judah wasn't born until like mid
2021.
And so I feel like by then Covidhad calmed down a little bit.
how was it for you with anewborn navigating the beginning
of Covid?
Like, that sounds really scaryto me.
What was your
Jaclyn (04:11):
Yeah, yeah.
It was, that was a, that was areally hard time to have a baby,
and I'm forever thankful.
It wasn't my first.
That learning curve of the firstpostpartum experience on top of,
you know, the extra, isolation,physical and the extra anxiety
of all of the unknown and havingthis tiny little vulnerable life
(04:34):
to care for and protect and nothaving any idea what that looked
like in that season.
So that was just reallyinteresting.
It was really, it was reallydifficult.
Yeah,
Kimber (04:46):
I think that also being away from a lot of support and
like in that seasonparticularly, cuz like even
family was a little far, wasprobably really challenging.
Cuz when I had Judah, we were inFairbanks and I felt similar in
that stage.
We had a few people, but we hadjust lost some friends and it, I
(05:09):
just felt very, I felt veryalone in that time.
And our friends that we didhave, we lived on a military
base and none of them weremilitary.
And so it was like a lot of thetime they wanted to help.
But to me it felt like more of aburden to like go get a meal
from them at the gate.
Like go meet them at the gate.
Then it would like, I'll justmake dinner, you know, um, that
(05:32):
kind of thing.
And.
Like the isolation of thatstage.
I feel like I, I felt it alittle more than I think I
would've if like we had been in,a community where we had more
support,
Jaclyn (05:43):
Sure.
Kimber (05:43):
like we do now.
and that's actually one reasonthat I was excited to talk to
you about this, that I thoughtof you because, for me, during
that time you were like such agift to me.
And I don't know, I don't knowhow much you know this, but, you
just like texted me, I think,and we had been, we were really
close when you guys lived inAlaska.
(06:04):
We got to live on the samestreet, which was so fun.
Jaclyn (06:07):
yeah.
Right.
Kimber (06:09):
but we hadn't talked a, a ton since you guys had moved
and you texted me and I don'tknow what it was just.
you know, right time, rightperson or what, but like, I just
felt really comfortable talkingto you, and I felt like your
vibe was like, what I needed,like you know, it's like I think
we, we all need differentthings, right?
(06:29):
In that, in that time.
And I think that your combo oflevelheadedness but
encouragement, but also like,realisticness, I guess, uh, was
just a, a good combo and it wasjust what I needed.
And so,
Jaclyn (06:42):
you for sharing that.
Kimber (06:44):
Yeah, it was such a gift to me during that time.
and so as I was thinking aboutlike, okay, loneliness, like the
postpartum time was for sure onethat felt lonely to me and I was
like, okay, what helped duringthat time?
And I was like, Jacquelinehelped like, you know, you
answered my questions.
(07:04):
and we're just, yeah, you were areal blessing to me during that
time.
So I'm thankful for you forthat.
And as we're talking here, I waslike, man, she's done it three
times now and so I feel like youcan probably speak to this.
And so I'm excited to hear justyour kind of perspective on this
and um, just like how we can,love on our friends who are
(07:24):
going through this cuz you didthat really well for me, even
though we weren't maybe in asuper close, uh, relationship at
that time.
And so, So, yeah, I want to, Iwanna dig into that a little bit
with you tonight.
I don't know about you.
I sometimes feel like, I thinkone of the reasons that you
reaching out to me and beingthere really presently, although
via text, but as present as youcould be from afar during that
(07:47):
time, was really, it just feltreally generous to me be was
because, I think sometimes Ifeel this pressure of like, you
know, if I'm not already likebest friends, like the closest
friend with a person, I'm like,they probably have someone else
to meet this need.
And so there's like a, ahesitancy maybe to like, reach
out in that, or like a pressureto only care for my friends at
(08:09):
like the level of care thatthey've indicated to me is
appropriate or something forthat time.
And I think it's just aninsecurity maybe.
but like, do you ever experiencethat kind of Trying to figure
out, you know, do I reach out tothis person during this time?
Should I, should I not?
Like, what led you with me, Iguess, in that moment to like,
(08:31):
reach out?
What, what was
Jaclyn (08:33):
interesting.
It's interesting that you saythat because, I had, in my first
postpartum season with Micah, I
Kimber (08:40):
Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn (08:42):
who I had been close with when we lived in New York
State and kind of a similarsituation.
Then had gone a period of timewhere we didn't speak quite as
much.
We had moved around a lot.
Um, and they, you know, had acouple kids before we had our
first, but she, I'm thinking ofone girl in particular, and she
was so willing to, and it didn'tfeel in invasive in any way, but
(09:05):
she was just so willing to askthe questions, like, how are you
really, and like, are younursing?
And like, if you are, how is itgoing?
Like that's the, the things thatcan be really difficult about
that season that sometimespeople don't really wanna, I
don't know, like maybe justafraid to touch on in case like
it's sensitive or, you know, andI, and
Kimber (09:25):
To actually like go there and ask the question.
Jaclyn (09:28):
Yeah.
But to not be afraid.
To just be like, how is itreally going?
And is there anything that youlike.
Wanted to talk about or is thereanything you wanna ask me?
And I think that's, so that'sjust huge.
So I, I had that model to me,you know, in my first postpartum
season.
And so I think it's so importantto be willing to just like,
reach into the fog, like I thinkmy experience as a new mom, like
(09:50):
I was happy for anybody's time,anybody interested in seeing how
I was doing and m an informationgatherer anyway, so I love to
hear about other people'sexperiences and I appreciated,
you know, more seasoned momsbeing willing to reach out and
say, Hey, how is it going?
And do you wanna talk aboutthings?
Kimber (10:07):
Right, right.
I am such an informationgatherer too, and so I think
that is something that Iappreciate as well.
I love how you said and I wannatouch on that a little bit.
Like the idea of it not beinginvasive, but still like asking
those more specific questions,like how have you seen it done
well and like where do, where doyou think the line is?
(10:30):
Like where we air intoinvasiveness?
Like how do you walk that line,do you think?
Jaclyn (10:36):
Oh yeah, I'm not sure.
I always do it perfectly.
That's something that I'm stilltrying to learn and grow in, and
it's different for each of ourfriends and sisters too, like
that line.
So being in community, being ina relationship, close enough,
you know, we just talked abouthow you don't have to be close
to reach in and love somebody,but like knowing them well
(10:57):
enough at some point to.
Know how they would need to beloved, I guess, and know, you
know, I don't think you have toknow anybody super, super well
to understand what they mightfeel, is completely off bound
you know?
Kimber (11:11):
Yeah.
Like just kind of theirpersonality, like comfort level
maybe.
Jaclyn (11:15):
Yeah.
but then just kinda like workinginto things slowly too, cuz some
people, once you just start toask like, how's it going?
They'll be like, oh, it's sogreat.
Or like, well, I'm reallystruggling.
And, you know, some people aremore willing to talk about
things and ask questions and,just being there to listen
genuinely, just listen to themwhere they're at, I think can
lead you into where they'rewilling to go, I guess.
Kimber (11:37):
right.
And I suppose like there'salways the possibility that
they'll be like, I'm fine,thanks.
Like, you know what I mean?
And like that's a cue that wecan take you know?
Jaclyn (11:47):
Right.
Kimber (11:48):
You know, because it's like, yeah, that's true.
It's true.
Right,
Jaclyn (11:52):
they don't wanna talk about it.
Yeah.
Kimber (11:54):
right.
And so I think it's like alsobeing okay with that and not not
needing anything back.
Because that was something Ithink that I did really
appreciate as well duringpostpartum time was like, if.
Someone offered something.
A lot of times I didn't feellike I had something to give
back.
Whether it was even just like a,Hey, I'm thinking of you and the
(12:17):
best people who said that.
I was like, I know if I don'tever text them back, they're,
they still meant it, you know,like they don't need the
validation, um, of, oh, thankyou so much for checking on me,
whatever.
but like to just be able tooffer our support to the people
in our lives in that timewithout expecting anything back
(12:38):
from them.
And then if they want to like,you know, open up to us, it just
sort of clicked for me to dowith you then great.
Like, we can be there, but tonot expect that to happen or be
offended, you know, if itdoesn't, I think can help
Protecting against that too.
So you said that like your firsttwo postpartum times were pretty
different, mainlycircumstantially, right?
(13:02):
Like kind of based on, thesupport that you had, where you
were at, what was going on justin the world even.
Um, what about with your newestone?
What has your, your postpartumtime been like with her?
Or how was it like with her?
Jaclyn (13:15):
so Naomi was born in the same place that Liam was.
We've been here now almost threeand a half years, and.
So fast forward from being freshand brand new in our life group
and our church, and we've spent,two and a half more years
building into, um, our communityhere.
And it was really night and day.
(13:36):
And some of that I'm sure is dueto the fact that, like you
alluded to with Judah, likeCovid was not like, it's here
still, it's a thing, but it'snot the way it was in the
beginning.
Um, so this was a very differentexperience because we had more
community developed and.
You know, with Liam, I reallyhad a bit of bitterness, I, we
(13:59):
had had Mike and Alaska awayfrom a lot of my, you know,
friends from growing up and myfamily and my parents and my
sister and Alex family andeverybody was back here.
And so when we had made thedecision that it was right to
move and then we're expectinganother, it was like so much
excitement for doing, doing itall again with you know, with
(14:19):
our families close and with ourolder friends.
And, and then it just, I
Kimber (14:24):
It didn't happen.
Jaclyn (14:25):
Robbed of that.
Yeah.
In some ways.
And so, no, it didn't, you know,ruin the experience, um, the joy
that comes with a new baby, butthere was just, there was just a
lot of layers to that one Andso, having the chance to have
everybody more involved thistime around, it's not
necessarily been easy.
(14:47):
She's a different baby.
And so it's not allcircumstantial, right?
Like, it's not just about what'saround us.
Um, and also going from two tothree has been, a very different
experience than zero to one orone to two.
And everybody has their opinionsabout what's easiest and all
that.
But,
Kimber (15:02):
yeah.
Jaclyn (15:03):
somewhere, somewhere in the middle, I guess, because it
Kimber (15:05):
Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn (15:06):
maybe as simple as it was with Micah, but definitely
not so isolating and fearful insome ways as
Kimber (15:14):
Right.
Yeah.
I can imagine.
how do you think it's impactedyou?
Like now that this is your thirdtime going through that, almost
aside from like uniqueness ofbaby and like uniqueness of
circumstances, but like for you,just as a person, you know what
I mean?
Like you as a mom, like this isyour third time doing something
(15:35):
that's really hard and, And alsolike incredible, but like, just
wild that that's, you know, whatwomen go through.
Like, it's crazy to me.
how do you think that you arelike different this time around,
you know, almost like outside ofcircumstances even?
Jaclyn (15:52):
Yeah.
I was thinking about this alittle bit earlier and how the
postpartum season this timearound felt different.
Because it's not like inisolation,
Kimber (16:05):
Hmm.
Jaclyn (16:05):
it's contiguous with motherhood now.
It's not like I have two othersthat I'm caring for and loving
on.
And so it's not, I guess, such aclear period of like still a
time period.
I'm not describing it well,
Kimber (16:22):
but it's not like, everything stops,
Jaclyn (16:25):
right, exactly.
And there's no like sleep whenthe baby sleeps and like
Kimber (16:30):
Right,
Jaclyn (16:31):
take this amount of time and just like heal and rest and
it's like, just doesn't, it'snot like that after the first
time
Kimber (16:37):
Yeah, yeah,
Jaclyn (16:39):
yeah, just figuring out what that looks like and how to
still get quality time with bothof my boys while still being.
Responsible primarily.
Well, I talked to you some aboutthe whole bottle refusal bit.
So being exclusivelyirresponsible, you
Kimber (16:56):
Yes, yes,
Jaclyn (16:58):
Naomi and also wanting to bond in the same way with her
that I did with the boys.
But like the reality is there'sonly 24 hours in a day
Kimber (17:06):
yes.
Jaclyn (17:07):
um,
Kimber (17:08):
of
Jaclyn (17:08):
more little people needing Yeah, it's more little
people needing me, so, It's hardto compare the first postpartum
season to the current, eventhough it's the same experience
in a lot of ways.
I'm just different.
Kimber (17:21):
But it's so different.
Yeah.
And you're a different person aswell, right?
Hmm.
Yeah.
it's interesting to me too, likehow like all the, the ways that
we tell first time moms to like,take care of themselves, are
sort of not applicable um, this,that second and third time.
(17:44):
So like, how have you,Jacqueline, is it like a, just
make it through or like, haveyou, found any ways, or like how
do you kind of take care of yourheart and like maintain
steadiness, you know, with youand just.
Balance in your life, you know,as a human being who needs,
(18:06):
like, has needs and needs, like,you know, quiet time and like
sleep and, you know, self-care.
Like, is that just like a pausefor you, you know what I mean?
Or does it look just differentand smaller and briefer Maybe?
Like what have, how have youlearned to kind of take care of
yourself in this
Jaclyn (18:25):
Yeah.
I think you just hit on itperfectly like I'm learning, I'm
still learning and still growingeach time.
how to like advocate well formyself and what I need.
Cuz sometimes it's easier tojust like, put your head down
and do, do, do and then find
Kimber (18:41):
Like, I'm just gonna get through this.
Right.
Jaclyn (18:44):
Right.
and I, I recently heard somebodytalk about, they called the lie
of perfection and how it robs usof progress.
And this is like, you know, if Ican't have an uninterrupted 30
minutes or an hour of quiet timeand prayer, like why bother?
I'm not even gonna start.
Or like, if I can't stickperfectly to this workout plan,
(19:05):
like it doesn't even make sense.
Like why try, why try?
Like I'm learning how to usesmall pockets of time in my day
intentionally.
Whether that's getting qualitytime with my boys, like, you
know, the gauging who needs whatand when, like, and where my
tank is at.
Like, just do my kids need me
Kimber (19:23):
Which isn't gonna be the
Jaclyn (19:24):
More than Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
and asking Alec to help me seewhen I need, what I don't maybe
know that I need yet.
You know, like, uh, can you justgimme, gimme a little bump and
say like, please go take a walkor something like that.
If you see that that's somethingI need and I'm like not
recognizing it, you know, so,
Kimber (19:46):
And that can feel so hard in the moment too.
like, like, what are you saying,
Jaclyn (19:51):
right.
I'll dare you.
How dare you care for me.
It's so true though.
Yeah.
So just, just like releasing, myschedule and the desire for
like, things to go a certain wayand what I think.
Perfection looks like in theseason, like just, it's kind of
a minute to minute assessment oflike, who needs what and when
can I fit in what I need tonourish my soul, you know?
Kimber (20:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like that is such, man,it sounds really hard, but
probably a good exercise forthose of us who really like,
control and structure and
Jaclyn (20:25):
Yep.
Kimber (20:25):
I think the thing that always comes back to me with my
relationship with God is liketrust and letting go of control.
And so, I'm sure that motherhoodis a way that he is working that
out in me.
I'm
Jaclyn (20:37):
Yeah.
Leaning into it and justexperiencing the growth of
Kimber (20:42):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (20:42):
being pushed outside
Kimber (20:44):
Right.
Right.
And not always having things theway I want them.
even too.
Yeah.
You mentioned like allowing yourspouse to care for you, which
makes me think of our friends,like how we allow our friends to
care for us in this season.
And so I would love to hear yourside of maybe this time a little
more.
You said you've been withcommunity, a little bit more
(21:05):
than you were able to with Liam,and then also maybe with Micah,
you know, how did people blessyou most during your postpartum
time?
Like thinking really practicallyhere too, like, how can we lean
in to support our friends duringthis time in a way that is most
loving, most helpful.
I think that depends a bit onthe person, like you said.
(21:26):
I think that's really importantto remember.
but I think there's alsoprobably some trends that we can
see, of how we can like lean inhere and support people through
this really unique time.
So what comes to mind for youthere?
Like what blesses you most fromyour friends when you're in the,
the newborn stage, would yousay?
Jaclyn (21:45):
Um, I think for me it's time is a big one.
so after I had Micah, um, wewere living in Eagle River and I
had a dear friend who didn'thave kids yet.
She has two of her own now.
Um, and she worked on base andas a nurse.
And, um, at least weekly,sometimes more, would reach out
to me and just be like, Hey, canI stop in on my way home from
(22:08):
work and bring cookies?
Or can I come and like, Haveiced tea with you on the deck,
and she would come and spend herprecious time with us.
And since she's had her ownkids, many times she has come to
me and said, I just can'tbelieve I didn't do more for
you.
I had no idea what you weregoing through.
I just, but she, I didn't feellike that.
(22:29):
Like
Kimber (22:29):
yeah.
You felt like it was such a,yeah.
Jaclyn (22:32):
she was blessing me coming and like loving on Micah
and just bringing a smile andspending time with me.
So, and that's, you know, maybelike a, a specific person, love
language kind of thing.
But I just, um, that was reallyprecious and we have such
Kimber (22:48):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (22:49):
that time.
Um, and even now as it's gottenbusier and, many of my friends
here now have kids also.
And so it's not, you know, timeis a.
A premium when you're caring forlittle people, Um, so even
something just as small asfeeling seen, like a text
message like, Hey, I wasthinking about you, or I saw
this and it's made me think ofyou.
(23:09):
Or How did so-and-so'sappointment go or whatever.
Just knowing that you're beingthought of, and that someone's
taking the time to either dropby with a meal or coffee or
something as simple as justsending a message saying,
thinking about you,
Kimber (23:23):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (23:24):
a meal provision has been huge for us.
Just huge.
and I'm someone who likes tocook, but where that time just
doesn't seem to be there.
It's just, that's such apractical way to.
love on a whole family too, youknow, bringing nutritious
homemade food or not sonutritious, favorite takeout,
like whatever it is.
(23:45):
Um, and providing that is just,that has been a huge blessing
for us too in all of, all of myexperiences with postpartum,
Kimber (23:53):
I think it's really good that you mentioned, well, the
quality time thing might just belike some people's thing, but
like, you know, the concept oflove languages, right?
Like, that, those apply to ourfriendships too, like how we
receive love from our friends.
And so I, I feel like it's likethe newborn stage is just what
you know.
(24:14):
about how to care for yourfriends.
They're just needier during thattime.
It's like their needs are justheightened.
So whatever, you know, blessesthem.
Normally.
how can you heighten that inlike your attention?
Maybe, but not in, maybe, uh,like how much it is for, like,
what I mean by that is like yourfriend came by consistently,
(24:36):
like regularly, but it's notlike she stayed for hours.
right?
Am I understanding that like,Right.
Because as you say, like time isa premium, but it's like, you
know, so how can I like maybeintensify my care but in a way
that isn't burdensome?
Um, like that is, is reallybeautiful.
(24:57):
Like for me, I think that I feelreally loved when my needs get
met by my friends and like, youknow, maybe that's like, you
know, need for company orsomething, but maybe it's also
just like, yeah, like I needdinner tonight and I don't have
the energy or time to do it.
and so those kind of liketangibly meeting that really
(25:19):
blesses me.
But it's like, it's just such atime when I think you don't have
a lot to give back.
And so I think whatever it is,like, you know how to love on
your friend doing it with.
Like zero expectations back foraffirmation or like
encouragement, like, man,Jacqueline, I took a meal to a
girl who just had a baby theother day and she's a rockstar.
(25:42):
She wrote me a thank you note, Ithink within like two days.
And I was just like, girl,you're incredible.
Like I wouldn't have eventhought to
Jaclyn (25:54):
know.
Like please don't spend yourtime writing me.
Kimber (25:56):
Oh man.
Different again, different lovelanguages, But I was like, wow,
you're amazing.
But like, I think, you know,those kind of things can't be
like, we can't expect that,right?
Like because, and there'll be aday when you know your friend
isn't as needy again.
Of course.
Like, but like what an honor togive like extra attention.
(26:18):
to your friend during that time,whatever it is.
So I love that.
One other thing that I rememberreally distinctly from my
postpartum time that blessed mewas, I'm kind of a scaredy cat.
Like I'm a chicken and, um,adventure doesn't really, like,
I enjoy adventure.
Uh, if I feel safe, it, itdoesn't like excite me to be in
(26:38):
danger.
And with a newborn, everythingfelt dangerous to me.
and so, right.
Yes.
Did, have you heard that dealabout the amygdala, your fear
center of your brain growing?
Oh my gosh.
I try to tell that to everyfriend I meet who's a new mom,
because friends listening, ifyou don't know when you get
(27:01):
pregnant, have a baby.
Your amygdala, your fear center.
can grow up to 30% bigger.
Like it's biological that youwill have more fear as a mom.
And so, you know, and it's likewe learned to manage that, I
think, and it changes, but like,that is just a fact.
That's what happens.
And so, so it's like combatingthat.
(27:24):
And I had a couple friends whowere really intentional with me
about like, helping me get outof the house, like with itty
bitty baby, and like, okay,we're gonna go on an adventure
and that adventure is going toget ice cream.
Like you know, we're like goingfor a walk at the lake.
Like it's the, the scale was notlarge, but it was still like
(27:44):
having a friend to do that kindof thing with it made me feel
more brave.
And so that was something thatreally blessed me was like,
okay, like I see so-and-so doingthis, like, or they're gonna do
it with me.
And so, Not feeling as, I thinkalone in, in trying to conquer
the obstacles, but havingsomeone was like, yeah, like
(28:05):
I'll go get ice cream with you.
You know?
It's not a big deal to me, butlike, sh I know it's a big deal
to you, you know?
So do you feel like youexperience that with First Baby,
it's probably different afteryou've had one, like, but just
the newness of it with Micah,did you experience that like
struggle to get out and go dothings?
(28:27):
Or was that not as much yourchallenge?
And if not, what would you saywas like the biggest challenge
for you with your firstpostpartum time?
What felt the hardest?
Jaclyn (28:37):
Oh gosh.
this is probably mostlycircumstantial.
Again, because of where we livedon Hannah Jane there in Eagle
River and where our clinic was,where Alec was working.
I found it easy to get outactually because everything was
so walkable.
Kimber (28:56):
Yeah,
Jaclyn (28:57):
it was.
Less than half a mile to get tothe clinic where I knew Alec was
and I was welcome there becauseI was
Kimber (29:04):
yeah.
You worked there
Jaclyn (29:05):
you know, a full-time employee before I had Micah and,
so many
Kimber (29:09):
that was like a close
Jaclyn (29:11):
safe.
Kimber (29:12):
yes.
Yeah.
Jaclyn (29:15):
place.
that and having like four coffeehuts I could walk to from the
house,
Kimber (29:20):
yes.
God bless Alaska.Yay.
Jaclyn (29:23):
right.
Pop'em in the stroller and getout.
and that, and like leads me tothink about the way that my
experience with Naomi has beendifferent than the boys.
Cuz Micah and Liam were born,birthdays are just four days
apart.
So end of February, beginning ofMarch, and so in Alaska, coming
out of the darkness, coming
Kimber (29:41):
Yes.
Jaclyn (29:42):
the warmth
Kimber (29:44):
Yes.
Jaclyn (29:45):
Just kind of, kind of just as like the fog is clearing
from that immediate postpartumnewborn stage.
That was huge.
And having Naomi in November,
Kimber (29:55):
right.
Going into the
Jaclyn (29:56):
dark as Alaska here it was, it was hard.
Kimber (30:01):
Still winter.
Yeah.
Jaclyn (30:02):
No.
Yes.
Not my favorite thing becausealso having two other kids to
like bundle, before you getoutside, you can't just be like,
okay, out the back door like
Kimber (30:12):
right?
Popper in the car seat, like,yeah.
Jaclyn (30:16):
yeah.
it's so like bundling thenewborn, but bundling the other
two and then like hoping thatyou get more than five minutes
of happy kids outside
Kimber (30:24):
55 minutes later, we're finally ready to go outside for
five minutes.
Like
Jaclyn (30:29):
Yeah, So, that changed the experience very much in
terms of how easy it was for meto get out and.
Be brave enough to take, youknow, all of them by myself.
Um, so that was a challenge thistime.
That wasn't as much the firsttime for me.
Kimber (30:47):
Yeah.
Hey, Fred, forgive me for takinga quick moment in this
conversation to ask a favor ofyou.
I hope my conversation withJacqueline is blessing you
today.
And if so, as you take a momentto rate and review the show on
apple podcasts.
Reviews are so helpful inbringing new friends to the
(31:07):
show.
And I love reading what isblessing you from the podcast?
You can find the leak to leave areview the description of this
episode.
So thank you so much for takinga second to do that.
And it let's get back to theshow.
Would you say that you haveexperienced loneliness during
the newborn stage particularly,and if so, what has that looked
(31:32):
like for you?
Because isolating, I think forsure.
How do you think like lonelinessplays into that or, or did it
for you?
Jaclyn (31:41):
You know, I can see the way that God, the ways that God
has provided for me in each ofmy postpartum seasons, and it's
been different.
but after Liam, I definitelyfelt loneliness.
We had, you know, moved to thisnew place and I didn't have as
many relationships to,experience in person.
But I had a very good friendwho, she lives in Michigan and
(32:02):
she had a baby her first, just afew months after I had Liam.
And having that sharedexperience, like on steroids,
you know, because of all of thenewness and the fear, the start
of the pandemic.
Kimber (32:17):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (32:18):
Relationship was just such a blessing to me because we
were able to, um, we talked allthe time, we were reading the
Bible together and, justencouraging one another,
constantly having that sharedstage, but
Kimber (32:31):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (32:32):
me feeling like trying with all my might to like speak
love and truth into her havingher first baby in that season
too.
And just like, it's gonna beokay, this is gonna end at some
point or it's going to taper,right.
And like, you're gonna getthrough this and it's gonna be
Kimber (32:48):
get better.
Yeah.
Jaclyn (32:49):
Yes.
you know, I f I find that,sometimes when I am struggling
or I'm feeling just reallyturned inwards, like one of the
best ways to kind of snap out ofit is to like, Somebody else to
focus on, right?
Like find somebody else toserve.
Kimber (33:03):
true.
Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn (33:04):
also, a really just like constructive way I think, that
God gave me to like, processthrough what was happening and
Kimber (33:11):
Yeah, because you can pour into her.
Yeah.
Jaclyn (33:15):
Yeah.
Kimber (33:16):
Hmm.
I love that.
like one of the most powerfulthings that can combat our
loneliness is like movingtowards people rather than just
staying in that isolation andwallowing in it, you know?
And, yeah.
Jaclyn (33:28):
I think Satan really wants us to believe that we're
alone, you know?
And he'll really like, Nurturethat fear in us, that nobody
understands exactly what we'regoing through and our
experiences are truly ours.
And that, nobody can relate.
And so just having thatawareness of God has designed us
for community, we're supposed tobe doing this together no matter
(33:49):
what season we're in, whetherit's a season of heartache and
loneliness and drought or joy.
And so it's hard in the moment,you know, but seeing that and
calling it out, like, no, I'mnot gonna accept this.
Kimber (34:03):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (34:03):
And, letting people reach in and bless you.
And at the same time, as much ofa struggle as it can be is
trying to initiate contact andtrying to like, Recognize what
you might need at the time andfigure out who speaks life into
you and truth over you, and likelet them do that,
Kimber (34:20):
Yeah.
You said that like, you know,that fear of like, no one can
relate to my unique situationbecause it is like, it's all
different for us.
Like at the very least, like allof our, you know, babies are
different.
All of our experiences withbirth are different, like
feelings about it are certainlydifferent, you know, and, I
think it's the differencebetween, like, I may not
(34:42):
understand.
how you're feeling exactly inthis moment, but I can still
relate to you.
Or even if I can't even takethat step and I, I actually
can't relate to you.
That doesn't mean that thereisn't like value in your
relationship with that person.
Like one group of people thatI'm thinking about with this
conversation is when you havefriends who have not gone
(35:05):
through, you know, the newbornphase, like friends who don't
have kids yet.
those friendships are stillvaluable, to us during this
time.
But I feel like the enemy, atleast before I had kids, when I
would have a friend who had ababy, what I would hear, I feel
like was.
Oh.
Like, because you don't knowwhat she's going through.
Your friendship is not valuableto her here.
(35:28):
And like, I might be able tobring her a meal, but that's
about all I have to offer her.
And I just think that that's sonot true.
um, having like gone through itnow, like my friends who don't
have kids are such a blessing tome.
One, because they have a lot,you know, different freedoms
that, friends who have kidsdon't necessarily have, like,
(35:50):
that is different and you canlike, they can love on me in
ways that my friends with kidscan't, you know?
And so to me I'm like, why wasthat something that I believed?
But it's totally the enemytrying to, you know, make me
feel insecure and believe thatthat friendship is somehow
stunted because we don't have ashared experience anymore.
But man, I don't think, I don'tthink that's true.
(36:13):
So, How have you seen, like,your relationship with friends
who don't have kids, how havethey blessed you, through your
time as a mom?
Jaclyn (36:22):
I'm so grateful for friends who don't have children
yet who are still wanting tospend time with me.
Like,
Kimber (36:29):
Yes.
A
Jaclyn (36:30):
too that I'm like, again, back to the love
languages, but like the, the,the time spent to communicate,
like You know, you were, youwere saying having that
insecurity as someone who hadn'tyet gone through the experience
and having kids, but from theside of having
Kimber (36:48):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (36:49):
and still desiring time with friends who don't, that
insecurity of like, oh, am I,
Kimber (36:54):
You don't wanna hang out with me anymore,
Jaclyn (36:56):
Yes.
To like, to work around my kids'schedules or to like, whatever,
be patient, like to come to mebecause my baby might wake up 40
minutes into the night.
Like, am I, yeah.
Like, am I still valuable enoughto you
Kimber (37:10):
Hmm.
Jaclyn (37:10):
make that work?
And, that's going back to Jackieis my friend who visited me.
You know, it's like, that was, Ithink, why that was such a
powerful state.
To me of her, just the fact thatshe wanted to spend time with me
and like my four month old, likeas opposed to rush home and like
go for a hike or I don't know,things that at the time to me
(37:31):
would've maybe, again, this is alie, would've brought more value
to her life.
Clearly she didn't see it thatway,
Kimber (37:36):
right.
Yeah, absolutely.
For the friend I was talkingabout who like, you know, made
me get out and like, we went andstarted to do things that made
me feel like, okay, I can dothis.
Um, same thing.
She didn't have kids and she's.
a awesome adventure lady.
Like she could, go do lots ofother way cooler things, then
spend her time doing that.
And so it, was such a gift to mebecause it was like, okay, I
(37:59):
know this is not cool andprobably not very exciting for
you, but like, yeah, it showslove and like, ah, man, just rec
receiving like that is somethingthat I feel like when you're not
in a time of need, you don'thave to experience the humility
of that as much because it'slike you can meet someone where
(38:19):
they're at, you know?
And like you can go do thethings, but it's like when
you're in this time when youdon't have the ability to do
that in the same way and someonestill comes and meets you there,
even though you know that theycould be doing a lot of other
things.
Yeah.
It's like, it's love.
It's love, it's cool.
So, Jacqueline, as we kind ofwrap up our conversation here, I
(38:41):
feel like we have three groupsof people that I would love to
hear kind of just yourencouragement for here.
Like, the first one that I thinkof is a friend listening that we
were just talking about whodoesn't have her own kids.
She's not, uh, gone through thepostpartum time.
What do you think that she needsto know to be encouraged to keep
(39:02):
showing up for her friends asthey have kids and walk through
that postpartum time?
Like what would you say to herto encourage her in that effort?
Jaclyn (39:10):
Yeah, I'll go back to what you kind of said about
knowing our friends well enoughto know how to love them before
this season.
Similarly, like knowing thegifts of love and service that
you have, even if you can'tunderstand their season in an
its entirety, like trusting thatGod will use what you have to
bless them when you have theheart to do that.
(39:31):
Um, don't be afraid of thecrazy, don't be afraid of the
hormones, really.
They speak loudly sometimes and
Kimber (39:37):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (39:38):
just, don't feel inadequate to love a friend
who's going through this seasonjust because you haven't
experienced it yet.
Kimber (39:45):
Yeah.
Because they have so much togive.
They really do.
Yes.
You have so much to give as afriend, just not even, yeah.
Anything to do with yourcircumstance.
Yeah.
I love that.
What about for our friendlistening though, who has been
through it?
Because I think it can also beon the flip side, it's like we
talked a little bit about thatfine line of like being
(40:06):
invasive, you know, or offeringtoo many opinions, you know, do
you think we.
Moms who have gone through thepostpartum phase, what do we
need to like remember to loveour friends well, who are going
through it for their uniqueexperience.
You know what I mean?
Because like you said, likeevery single experience of yours
(40:26):
was different, not only becauseof the differences of baby and
you, but like circumstantial.
Like, you know, how could wepossibly speak into this
situation because it's all sodifferent.
But I think we can, so what doyou think we need to remember
when we have gone through it?
Jaclyn (40:42):
Yeah.
I think just, it sounds sobasic, but just listening
genuinely, like we talked about,being information gathers.
Just because I wanna hear abouteverybody's experiences and
their opinions doesn't mean thateverybody wants to hear about my
experience and my opinions.
So like, recognizing that theirseason.
The second, third, fourth,however many times likely isn't
(41:03):
gonna be like any of their ownprior experiences, let alone my
experience.
And
Kimber (41:09):
Right?
Jaclyn (41:09):
just being an ear, I guess, and like, don't be afraid
to ask, like, would it behelpful to hear about my
experiences or do you just,should I be a listening ear?
Can I bring coffee?
Do you wanna just talk like, andnot, I don't, yeah.
I don't know.
Just, releasing the pressure oftrying to fix things.
Um, just because you haveexperience with it doesn't,
Doesn't mean that's productiveor what they're
Kimber (41:30):
right.
I'm such a natural fixer, and sothat has been such an exercise
for me, like learning to justask that question, like you
said, like would it be helpfulfor me to share my experience
here or.
would you just like me to listenhere or are you looking for
solutions?
Like, you know, whatever it is.
I think just like, yeah, askingthat question really, like
(41:51):
frankly can be just wise,because then I think we're less
likely to offer unhelpful,unhelpful advice.
Yeah.
Jaclyn (42:00):
And sometimes I think they might not even really know
what they're looking for untilmaybe you offer that clarified
question that's like, oh,actually
Kimber (42:08):
Yeah.
I would love to hear that.
Or
Jaclyn (42:09):
me about it?
Yeah.
Or like, actually, yeah, maybeyou're right.
I just need you to listen to meas
Kimber (42:14):
Right,
Jaclyn (42:15):
or whatever.
Kimber (42:16):
right.
That's good.
And speaking of the blubbering,um, what about our friend who
they're like, yeah, like I am inthis right now, like I am in the
postpartum season.
My brain is crazy, my emotionsare crazy.
Like it's all over the place.
You know, and everyone hasdifferent opinions about the
newborn stage, right?
(42:36):
Like my, I guess if I seem likeI'm talking a little, like
negatively about it, it'sbecause I did not really like
the newborn stage I love mybaby, but I like him more now.
It's like, that's just the factand, and everyone's, everyone's
experience is different.
Like, I know lots of people lovethe newborn stage.
And so,
Jaclyn (42:55):
Mm-hmm.
Kimber (42:56):
I think I, I tend to maybe talk down on it a little
bit just because that was myexperience.
So, you know, just recognizingthat everyone's is different.
But, um, regardless we can allagree.
I think that it is wild.
Like it's all over the place,whether you love it or you, you
hate it.
Like it's all over the place.
What would you say tonight toencourage a friend who's in it
(43:20):
and they just are feeling reallylonely and like isolated and
just like, man, this is myreality right now and I just
need someone.
how would you encourage hertoday?
What do you think?
Jaclyn (43:32):
Yeah.
I mean, this is hard in its ownway because sometimes it can
just feel like another, anotherthing you have to take care of.
But, having done it three times,like just reach out.
Like, think of somebody whomakes you feel loved and safe
and someone who speaks truthinto your
Kimber (43:50):
Hmm
Jaclyn (43:50):
And like, just be vulnerable or don't even at
first, like just start theconversation.
Just reach out.
let somebody love on you.
Community is huge like this.
We've just been talking abouthow, we're just, we're not meant
to do this alone.
And also it's okay to feel.
One moment, like I love thisnewborn stage and they're so
(44:11):
squishy and perfect and I neverwant it to end.
And then the next moment like,this is so hard.
And those feelings can coexist.
Kimber (44:18):
Which is
Jaclyn (44:19):
it's okay.
Yeah.
It's okay if you're like, thisis so great.
But also I can't wait till it'sover
Kimber (44:26):
Yeah.
Jaclyn (44:27):
Um, and so yeah, I know I hesitate to kinda hesitate to
say that because it just feelslike, oh, it's just more work to
like be the one to initiate.
So I guess it's kind of atwofold answer.
Speaking to everybody else too,like if you know somebody who
just had a baby in the last fewmonths or a year even, I know
where they live, how close youare to them.
(44:49):
Like, we've talked about this,please just reach out and.
Let them know you're thinkingabout them and see how they're
doing.
And because sometimes it's justhard being the one in it when
you're like thinking about whenyou need to feed the baby next
and how many dirty diapersthey've had and what your
toddler's doing in next room.
It's hard to be like, what can Ido to help take care of myself?
(45:09):
Like,
Kimber (45:09):
yeah.
We need those
Jaclyn (45:11):
to have people.
Kimber (45:12):
Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn (45:13):
to speak truth over you and,
Kimber (45:16):
Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn (45:17):
um, something else I feel just kind of strongly about
because it's been very true forme and all of mine, and I think
it's, obviously, it's notuncommon because it's
biological, but hormones arereal and the swings and the fear
and the elation and like justyou feel crazy.
Right.
Um, I guess just reassurancethat like, It's normal and it's
(45:39):
okay.
And like your emotions don'thave to rule you.
It feels like they do.
But no storm lasts forever andyour body's doing what it needs
to do and so you will feelequilibrium once again.
Kimber (45:52):
And I think that's such like the help of connecting with
someone because it's like areminder of like, it's like you
see the level and you're like,okay, that's the, the standard
there.
Or like that's, what the levelis.
And it's not to like compareyourself to them, but it's just
to be reminded that like, youknow, sometimes what seems like
(46:14):
reality, at least to me, whatseemed like reality at 1:00 AM
when I was like, I've beentrying to go to bed for five
hours, you know, Like, that maynot be reality.
What feels like my emotionalreality there.
And so just to be reminded that,it's okay, but it also, like
what I'm thinking in this momentmight not be true, you know?
(46:36):
And so to, yeah, to have someoneto like speak that truth over
you and remind you that whatyou're experiencing is normal,
but like what is true in themidst of that can be so
powerful, um, to just like helpyou.
Hold on.
Yeah.
Absolutely, man.
(46:57):
Jacqueline, I love talking toyou today about this.
There's, something just reallyspecial I feel like about, being
able to look back on a stage andrealize like, the people that
got you through it.
And that is just like the giftof reflection, I think, and to
be able to look back.
(47:17):
And so, um, I'm so thankful forhow you helped me through my
postpartum time and, um, I lovewhat you shared about those who
helped you through yours.
And I just am praying forfriends listening that they
would, be able to either reflecton the people who helped them
through theirs and like tellthem because it's such a
(47:37):
blessing to hear that kind ofthing, I think.
Um, and if, and for those whoare in it to lean on your people
because man, that's the waythrough it.
Yeah.
man.
Jacqueline, thank you so muchfor talking
Jaclyn (47:49):
And thank you for having me on
Kimber (47:51):
I loved it.
Yeah, it was so fun.
Well, I'm gonna let you go cuzit is nighttime for you.
You got that baby to bed, AndI'm gonna let you go.
Enjoy your well earned, rest.
So thank you so much, friend.
Fred.
(48:11):
I'm so glad you could joinJacqueline and I this week on
the, your sister Kimber podcast.
Loli is going to be present atany season, but thinking about
how we can love our friends.
Well, in particular seasons canbe such a blessing.
I think.
And if we're thinking reallypractical for blessing Fred's in
a particularly stressful seasonMy new digital resource, maybe
just the tool you need to getthe details.
(48:32):
It's called 20 facts to knowabout your friends.
And these are the kinds ofthings that are just going to
give you the fodder to bless andlove on them.
In tangible ways.
It's a free PDF.
You can download it either printor text to a friend to fill out
for you.
Then save those ideas at yourphone under their contact card
for when you need it.
You can get this resource on mywebsite, which is linked in the
(48:52):
description of this episode.
And if you haven't yet joined mynewsletter crew, will you visit
your sister kipper.com tosubscribe?
When you subscribe, you get myweekly newsletter directly to
your email inbox, with a previewof what will be featured on the
podcast that week, plus a linkto this month's blog posts and
some other resources and tips tohelp you grow friendships, honor
God and diary closer to Jesus.
(49:13):
I hope it blesses you.
Fred.
Thanks so much for being part ofthis could be ditty until next
time.
It is your sister.
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