July 26, 2023 • 35 mins
Kimber talks with series guest co-host Meghan Fravel about the blessings that can come from mourning with your friends, whether it's you letting them into your season of grief, or you entering into theirs.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kimber (00:09):
Hey friends.
Welcome to the, your sisterKimber podcast.
My name is Kimber Gilbert, andI'm so glad you're here.
Y'all know, I don't like to shyaway from hard conversations and
today is no different.
My summer guest co-host MeganFreeville.
And I are talking today aboutbeing a friend who has the
capacity to mourn alongside ourfriends.
(00:31):
Grief can be terribly tricky.
Right.
And I know for me, at least, andmany of us the tendency is to
try to navigate it alone.
But when we can allow ourtrusted people into the space of
mourning with us and when we canbe people who aren't afraid to
enter into that space with ourfriends, when they're walking
that road, our friendships willbe richer for it.
(00:52):
And I think it's going to growour relationships with the Lord
too.
So friends, I pray that thisconversation today draws you
closer to Jesus and closer toyour people.
I wish we could talk this oneover face to face with maybe
something iced and caffeinatedin hand, but this is the next
best thing.
I'm so glad you hear friend.
Let's get started.
(01:17):
Hey friends, Megan.
Welcome back to the
Meghan (01:21):
Hey, how's it going?
Thanks for having me.
Kimber (01:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks for being here.
Man when this conversation airs,we're having this conversation
in June, but it will be the endof July.
When this comes out, thatactually freaks me out a little
bit because.
'cause I just feel like summer,I mean, summer in Alaska
especially is so fleeting, um,which
Meghan (01:43):
It's especially fleeting this year.
Kimber (01:44):
It's especially fleeting.
Yes.
We've been talking about this.
It's like, it's been Jerry andman, that's just tough when it's
like, you have like nine monthsof winter and it makes the
summer seem so special and likeprecious, which is I'm glad for,
but.
Then when it's a little bithard, it's, it's a challenge.
Meghan (02:04):
That's a challenge.
Kimber (02:05):
My question for you, Megan is if you had to live
somewhere.
That was always winter.
Or somewhere that was alwayssummer.
Like it was only one or theother all year round, which
would you pick?
Do you think.
Meghan (02:18):
Okay.
I'm gonna shock everyone.
My family's gonna die, but I'mgonna say I would rather have
winter because I, I grew up inArizona and it's basically
always summer.
Even in the winter.
It's like, you know, 75.
You can only take, this isgonna, you can take So many
clothes, so many clothes offguys like, you know, and so I'm
(02:42):
just gonna say, you can't go outwhen it's, you can't go out when
it's 120 degrees out.
So, um, and so it gets so hard,like especially the summers
there, you know, to, like, Iremember taking my kids to the
park and You're going at 7:00 AMbecause by eight o'clock it's 95
degrees outside and then you'reinside all day.
Whereas like the winter, I canbundle up and I can go do all
(03:05):
the things still.
So,
Kimber (03:06):
Right.
Meghan (03:07):
I'm, I'm gonna say winner.
I'm
Kimber (03:09):
Or, I mean with winter, Yeah.
I, so I grew up in Kansas wherewe have like your typical four
seasons.
And so, um, but I feel like Iwould probably go with summer
just because I've neverexperienced that.
But as someone who.
I know I've heard that frompeople before who like live in
climates that are like alwayssummer.
(03:30):
They're like, ah, I just like,it gets old and.
And I feel like that's whysummer in Alaska is so precious
because you really like.
Feel that just want a need toenjoy it and like really soak it
up.
But I feel like if it was allthe time, I probably would get
sick of it like that, but Iwould get sick of winter year,
round twos.
Meghan (03:50):
I know.
I mean,
Kimber (03:51):
I don't know what I would say.
Meghan (03:52):
yes, But I
Kimber (03:53):
you do, you do a bunch?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Meghan (03:56):
I do a bunch.
And that was, That was the bestadvice people gave me when we
moved up here was you have tofind something you love to do in
the winter or else you're notgonna make it in Alaska.
And so that's why I started likehiking in the winter and cross
country skiing.
Um, and every year trying tolike add to that, you know, so
it was like one year and thisyear I'm like, maybe we'll fat
(04:17):
tire bike this year.
Like, try to figure out, youknow, just different things.
Um, because It is.
so long, there's long winterhere.
But I love having the seasonschange.
Like Arizona, there's really noseasons changing and um, Yeah.
it just gets kind of old fast,
Kimber (04:33):
Yeah.
I feel like that's somethingthat I want to do better with is
the like winter activity that Ienjoy.
And it's like,
Meghan (04:41):
that.
I'll take you out.
We're gonna go out and do
Kimber (04:43):
know I do.
I I've been saying for likethree years now that I want to
learn to cross country ski, so Ineed to actually do it this
year.
Meghan (04:50):
go do it.
Let's go do it.
Kimber (04:51):
it.
Meghan (04:51):
Yeah.
we'll do it.
We'll do
Kimber (04:53):
I love it.
Well, Um, even though we were onthe back half of summer, um,
once this comes out, Um, thatmeans we're also on the back
half of our series, our summerseries being the friends you
need.
And, my biggest prayer out ofthis series is just that, as
we're pursuing these Godhonorary friendships, that God
would use it to grow closer tohim.
(05:14):
And, you know, in thisrelationship, in our lives, that
is the most important, like wetalked about friendship a lot
here, and those are importantrelationships, but of course,
like our relationship with Godis.
The most important, thatrelationship that we have.
And so I love seeing just howGod has given us like
relationships with people thatpoint us toward the superiority
(05:35):
of our relationship with him.
And so I would love to hear, tokind of get us started today.
Just how you see friendship inyour life working to draw you
closer to the Lord himself.
Like what do you feel likefriendship, does to grow your
relationship with God?
Meghan (05:51):
I think that it helps me see, uh, I know since before
like just a different piece ofGod.
Um, maybe it's something thatlike, you know, we've got all,
have our blinders on and they'reable to speak in, in that
moment, um, that God will speakthrough them to me or vice
versa.
it helps.
We have like that tangible pieceof like right now I'm not
(06:12):
physically in the presence ofthe Lord, but at times, like I
am experiencing that with myfriendships when we're having
that spiritual intimacy.
and so Yeah.
I think that it brings a lot ofthose character qualities that
we love about God, really likeearth side for us to experience,
um, and being able todemonstrate that for each other.
Kimber (06:32):
Yeah, I love that experiencing it or side idea.
Yeah.
It's like, it's just such aglimpse, but it's, it's great.
When it, yeah.
When we do it.
Right.
I love that.
so as we're talking today,getting into our topic, it's
like, man, those moments thatare.
Just so good.
I feel like give us a glimpse ofheaven, but then I feel like
(06:54):
those moments that are reallyhard can do that too.
Um, but in a different way, youknow, it's like, it's maybe not
that forward look, but it'slike, man, in the midst of like
my hard life circumstances, thisis a way that, like, I feel like
God's presence can be made.
So.
tangible to us is through thepeople in our lives when they
(07:14):
love us well, through our hardmoments.
And so, I think this aspect ofour relationships is so
important and just reminds usto, like, we just should not do
life alone because it's sotough.
Like we need.
People to support us in thesedark seasons.
and I'm such a believer inpressing into hard
conversations.
And so today we're going to talkabout mourning in our
(07:36):
friendships and just how we canbe a friend who mourns with our
people.
And so I'm going to break theice.
We're going to get into it.
I feel like people want to havethese kinds of conversations
because they want to, they wantto talk about the stuff that
really matters, but I feel likeso many of us don't know how to
get there.
Like, we don't know how to.
I bring it up.
(07:57):
And so, we're going to talkabout it today.
Meghan (07:59):
Let's, let's do it.
Kimber (08:00):
see what we come up with.
and so just this idea of likeauthentically mourning alongside
our people.
I don't think that this is agiven in every friendship.
Like, I feel like this is kindof.
Like holding space for hard.
These hard conversations is Ithink, an acquired ability.
So, um, you know, what has beenyour experience with like having
(08:21):
this space to mourn and like gothrough the hard things with
your friends?
Versus friendships that don'tlike, is this a given for your
friendships or not so much?
Do you
Meghan (08:31):
Yeah, so I would say I would say since moving to
Alaska, we've been kind of hardhit with a lot of stuff just in
our families and with my, myfriends here.
you know, I've had friends thathave lost parents and, you know,
my mom's got diagnosed withcancer and I had my own big
health thing last year.
And so there was like a lot ofmourning going on.
And I would say like up untilthat moment I hadn't really
(08:52):
experienced like a deep, like,there's been mornings of, you
know, Like health issues withfriends or like marriage or
whatever and things like that.
But like some of those reallybig, deep things I hadn't really
walked through as a friendbefore until really like two
years ago.
and also being on the flip sideof that, of like also now I'm
the one that's mourning and notjust, Yeah.
(09:14):
Yeah.
And so, Yeah.
so it is kind of like a newerthing for me and it really is
like one of those things that insome ways you don't always know.
It's, it's mourning and grief isa really tough subject cuz
everyone does it so differently
Kimber (09:27):
Yeah.
Meghan (09:28):
and they, any you have to show up differently for
everybody.
Kimber (09:31):
Hm.
Right.
How, how would you say let'sstart with the side.
Of cause I agree that there'stwo sides to this.
Like letting friends into yourpersonal grief.
that's not always easy
Meghan (09:46):
Nope.
Kimber (09:47):
by any means.
and then entering into others.
Moments of mourning.
Like I think that's where weexperienced a lot of awkwardness
maybe, or like, we don't knowhow to do that.
so let's start with the firstone and then we can get to the
other side of it too.
so just that idea of likeletting people into.
(10:08):
Your own moments of like griefand mourning.
you say that this is kind oflike a new thing for you.
Like how have you learned to dothat?
Like, what does that look likefor you?
Meghan (10:18):
Yeah.
it's been hard.
I've said that still for me.
Like I'm always a person who'slike, I'm Right.
there.
I'll, I'll jump in.
I'm gonna be in your grief withyou and we're gonna do this
together.
And then when it's like, oh, Igotta let people in on my stuff,
I'm like, oh, I don't know.
I don't know.
that's been a, a harder musclefor me to learn.
Um, you know, I'll just saylike, With on one instance, like
(10:41):
with my mom and cancer, likethat was an easier one for me to
let people into because itwasn't like, my own personal
like heart thing.
It was like an external thingthat's happening.
And that was very easy to letpeople like come into that
space.
Um, with my health stuff that Ihad last year, um, that was
really hard.
I, I only let a few peoplereally into that part because it
(11:01):
was so, it was so heavy for me.
And it's hard and it's like, butit could be anything.
I mean, it doesn't even have tobe something physical.
It could be like, my marriage isfalling apart or my kid's gone
wayward, or financial thingslike whatever.
And those are the parts whereit's so like, you feel so tender
and vulnerable.
And I know for me it's like if Ilet this out of the bag, What's
(11:25):
gonna happen next?
And so it really is like, Ithink at that point, I know like
the last episode we talked aboutbeing a trustworthy friend, like
this is where this is like therubber meets the road of letting
those trustworthy people intothat part of my life and knowing
that they're gonna love me andcare for me.
They might not agree with me, amI?
You know, there's gonna be sometough love, but meeting me with
(11:47):
that grace and knowing I cantrust their heart in that
process.
Kimber (11:51):
Yeah.
I feel like one of the thingsthat can be, can feel hard with
this, at least for me is.
I think sometimes it feels likeI need to, like, if I'm going to
let them in, I got a L.
Just dump everything.
Um, you know, or like it's goingto be like a big moment or
something.
I don't know.
But really, I think this happensin like small.
Meghan (12:12):
Yeah.
Kimber (12:13):
moments of vulnerability or like small shares.
Over time.
because, you know, I think wehype it up in our mind that
like, well, if I'm gonna, youknow, let someone into mourn
with me, it's going to be likethis huge long heart to heart,
and it's going to be this wholeordeal and that might happen.
But it also might be just likea.
(12:34):
you know, you've talked aboutbefore, like the sending the
purple heart or like tellingsomeone like, Hey, I'm having a
really hard day today with this.
And just like allowing them tosee, um, that side of your life.
and I think that can happen injust like small shares, even if,
you know, if it feels likeoverwhelming.
(12:55):
I think that it doesn't have tobe such a huge thing.
Um, what do you feel like is thebiggest barrier for you when you
were, when you're like trying toallow those trustworthy people
in, um, what do you feel like isthe biggest barrier for you of
why you don't.
Or
Meghan (13:11):
I think for me, I would say for me it's shame.
Kimber (13:13):
Okay.
Meghan (13:14):
I'm let, I'm letting you in on my mess
Kimber (13:16):
Gotcha.
Meghan (13:17):
how are you going to carry that?
Kimber (13:20):
Yeah.
Meghan (13:21):
cuz for me it's more, it's not less like I need to
have this big drawn out story.
It's like I need to have it kindof cleaned up in a pretty bow on
it and be like, here's myproblem, but I've got it all
tied up and it's like, you know,and this gloss over, which is
not really real.
Um, and so just being like, Hereit is.
Kimber (13:37):
it is.
Yeah.
I don't have an answer.
I
Meghan (13:40):
I don't have yeah,
Kimber (13:40):
Yeah.
Um,
Meghan (13:42):
And so, but I think it's shame of like, I should.
For me, it's, uh, I should dobetter.
I should be better.
I shouldn't be struggling withthis.
Um, and so for me, that's my,that's my barrier.
Kimber (13:52):
Um, so many, so many of us, I think have that narrative
of, I shouldn't be strugglingwith this.
And I feel like I hear that.
I've heard that a lot over theyears and I don't know.
Like, why do you think we.
Go there.
Like, why is that something thatwe believe even if we like
intellectually know that that'snot true, you know?
(14:13):
like, of course we will strugglewith stuff.
You know what I mean?
Meghan (14:15):
Yep.
Yep.
I honestly, I always take itback to like good old eve in the
garden of like that beingdeceived and that that whole of,
but you, but you, but you knowmore, you can do that
questioning of, can I trust God?
Instead of my or can I trust me?
And so there, I feel likethere's like that tension that
(14:36):
like the enemy just put in fromday one of you can't trust
yourself,
Kimber (14:41):
Mm.
Yeah.
Andrew can't trust the people
Meghan (14:44):
And you can't trust the people around you Yeah.
Yeah.
Or God.
Or
Kimber (14:47):
Right.
Right man, we can't trust.
Yeah.
He comes at
Meghan (14:51):
just do it all, all
Kimber (14:52):
angles.
Yeah.
And that's one reason I love,you know, the friendship tie
here is because like, not onlydo we have to try to trust other
people and when we.
When we share vulnerably, in ourgrief or in anything.
When we share.
Vulnerably with a friend, we arefighting back against that lie
(15:12):
of the enemy.
And we're saying, Nope, I'm notgoing to listen to that.
But then at the same time, whenwe share vulnerably with a
friend, we're also finding isthat lie that like you can't
trust yourself because, maybe.
Your better judgment or not yourbetter judgment, but your, you
know, flesh, if you will, um,says, Nope, I should just take
care of this.
Uh, you know, on my own orwhatever, you're fighting
(15:34):
against that when you articulateand trust someone else with it.
And then you're trusting Godtoo, because you know that like
that person isn't going toperfectly handle it, but that
the Lord still holds your, holdsyour heart in that.
So, yeah, I love thatconnection.
Meghan (15:49):
Yeah, Good.
Kimber (15:50):
what would you say then about like the other side?
Of it, because I think the otherside is entering into others
morning.
Like when you, aren't the onewho is directly.
Um, it's in there life, but youstill are like walking along.
The path with others.
I feel like this is the spacewhere sometimes we don't enter
(16:13):
into others.
Morning, because like, we feelawkward or we don't want to like
impose or we don't know how todo
Meghan (16:19):
to say?
Yeah.
Kimber (16:21):
yes.
Yes.
So how have you experienced kindof that side of things?
Meghan (16:26):
Yeah.
it's really tricky.
I honestly didn't realize howhard it was until I walked.
Through a friend in her deepgrief and like feeling like, I
don't know if I do this well.
Um, because it's hard cuz it'slike you don't know what to say.
It's hard sometimes to knowlike, there's no perfect words,
(16:46):
there's No, like, I I tend to bea fixer and I'm like, I just
wanna make you feel better.
What can I do?
And it's like, you can't fix itYou just can't.
And so it just is.
what it is.
Um, I read this really amazingbook, a long time ago called
Just Show Up.
And it was about, it wasactually a girl, Um, I think her
name was Kara Tippet.
She got breast cancer.
(17:07):
She ended up passing away, butshe wrote this book during her
cancer journey with her bestfriend about like grief and how
to walk through.
And the whole concept was like,Just showing up, just show up
with a meal.
Just, just sit there and notfeel like you have to say
anything, but just to let themcry.
Just to listen, just to holdtheir hand.
(17:28):
I think so, so many times wewanna come with like the fix it,
the like, I can make this betterplatter and You just can't,
like, you just,
Kimber (17:38):
there's nothing.
Yeah.
Meghan (17:39):
and, and asking them like, what can I do for you?
Like, that's been a really bigone that I've learned is like,
What can I do for you?
Like, they don't even know.
They don't even know, like, andso having really like practical
things of like, can I take thekids to the park for you so you
can be alone today?
Or, Hey, can I come fold up?
You know, a basket of laundry.
Like having really like specificthings.
(18:01):
you know, or sometimes it'slike, hey, if it's nothing like
a physical thing, maybe it's,again, it's just more of an
emotional challenge happening ofdo you wanna like start.
Screen the Bible together.
You wanna go get coffee once aweek or let's just go for a
walk?
And that's just like our timeand you can just process, you
know, there's so many differentangles to this,
Kimber (18:20):
Yeah.
I feel like a big part of thatis like, You know, knowing your
friend.
I don't remember.
Maybe it was with you or maybeit's with someone else.
I don't remember who said this,but they were talking about
like, you know, knowing yourfriend, uh, before.
Like the metaphorical poo
Meghan (18:37):
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Kimber (18:38):
Oh, I think it was in my conversation with Sally Jo cook.
When we talked about grief afterher loss of her husband.
she was like, you know, do thatwork of like, getting to know
your friend before you're inthat moment where you have to
figure out what to do.
And of course that isn't always.
Meghan (18:57):
Yeah.
The case.
Kimber (18:58):
But I think many times, you know, it can be.
And so putting in the work tolike, get to know how your
friend processes.
You know, is it external,internal, do they need time or
they want to talk about it?
Like.
Knowing, just that simple thingbefore you're in
Meghan (19:17):
so good.
Yeah, that's so good becausethat's exactly what happened,
um, with me is in January, mymom's cancer, my mom's cancer
came back and I got the calland, it had sort of gone away
and six weeks later it came backat like stage four and, um, it,
that obviously it was like, Igotta get to Arizona as fast as
(19:37):
possible.
But what happened that day?
Without me, like I just kind ofput the word out there.
Hey guys, this is what happened.
Like I'm trying to get down toArizona.
Just be praying.
I can't even tell you.
I think I had like 10 peoplestop by at my house within like
two hours with.
Coffee with flowers,
Kimber (19:53):
Mm.
Meghan (19:54):
friends were like, Megan needs is the one that like when
this, when the crap hits thefan, like needs her people.
And they just literally, like mydoor was just
Kimber (20:02):
They
Meghan (20:02):
for hours of like, I just came to give you a hug.
I don't have to stay.
But then at one point, I thinkthere was like six of us in my
living room and we were just allcrying like, you know, and it
was so exactly what I needed andI didn't even ask for it.
It was just like, we know Meganis gonna like, Need that.
Need that, you know?
And so that was, that's soperfect cuz that's literally
Yeah.
(20:22):
it's so true.
Like they
Kimber (20:24):
And I think it enables you to respond with a little
more confidence.
I, you know, I think there isalways that aspect of, and this
is important of.
I'm not going to get this right.
And so I think we can have adesire to get it right.
To like, love our friend.
Well, in that moment and like,you know, sit in their, in their
(20:45):
grief with them, mourn withthem, but we can't, I think have
a need to get it.
Meghan (20:50):
Yeah, Right.
Yeah.
Oh
Kimber (20:53):
if I have a desire to do it well, like that just honors
my friend, it honors God.
Like, you know, I'm trying tolove them.
Well, But if I have a need to doit right.
Um, that will probably have mewalking in fear of saying the
wrong thing or doing somethingthat ends up somehow hurting
(21:14):
their feelings.
But I can't possibly know all ofthat.
Like I can try.
But I can't have a need to doit.
Right.
Cause I think that's just goingto end up handicapping me or
like paralyzing me in thosemoments when, it's more
important that I demonstratesome kind of care, even if it
ends up not being exactly whatwas the most helpful or
something.
I think the, the showing up orthe demonstrating the.
(21:36):
The desire is, can be.
almost the most important thing.
Meghan (21:41):
yeah, yeah.
That's so true.
That's really good.
Kimber (21:44):
What do you think like.
Keeps us from going to thosemoments, like, you know, you're
talking about, you know, withyour mom, like.
if there was someone who, whodidn't show up in that moment
for you, what do you feel likewould have kept them away?
Like what do you think is aroadblock to us of.
Being present in those moments.
Meghan (22:05):
I think it's a fear of, The unknown of, I don't know,
maybe not knowing what to sayagain.
It's not like I feel like I haveto come up with the answers.
Um, I think that it's, we don'tlike to just sit in the quiet,
in the awkwardness of like, andespecially with grief of like
literally just sitting there isgonna be the best thing you can
do.
But we, I think we so just wannahave like the Right.
(22:28):
word or the right bible verseand the right thing, and.
it's just not like you justgotta,
Kimber (22:34):
Right.
Meghan (22:35):
gotta be.
And I think that's really hardfor a lot of us to, I think it
just feels like it's not enoughwhen really, like, It really is.
you know?
Um, yeah.
Kimber (22:45):
So yeah, I feel like.
I got to experience thatrecently with a friend
Meghan (22:50):
Mm-hmm.
Kimber (22:51):
got some news and we were in like the same place
together.
And so there wasn't really anoption to like, Okay, I'm going
to let you be.
Don't really Like
Meghan (23:00):
Right,
Kimber (23:00):
Like we just were in this space.
And so, and I knew at that pointthat there wasn't anything I
could say, like there wasnothing I needed to contribute
in that moment.
Like I tend to be a fixer.
And so a lot of times I, I havethe, the, uh, tendency to like,
look forward to like, what'snext.
Or like, you know, somethinglike that.
(23:21):
And, but I already knew thatstuff, like we'd talked about
it.
And, and so there was just, itwas very apparent.
There was nothing.
That needed to be said in thatmoment.
And it like forced me.
To sit quiet in that, in thatspace.
And, man that I think is amuscle.
I wonder if it's a muscle thatwe practice.
(23:42):
Yeah.
Meghan (23:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cuz it's really hard.
It's hard.
I think like, Yeah.
I've been on the end of that.
I had, a years ago I had afriend that passed away really
unexpectedly, and I was withfriends when I got the phone
call and it was that same thingof like, you're just thrown into
it.
There's no like preparing if I'mgonna go to meet them and just
sit there.
You know, you're just kind of,sometimes that's easier than the
(24:03):
like, I know that I'm gonna showup and Yeah.
I'm Building it.
Um, but it's, yeah, it's hard.
It's so hard cuz Yeah.
I think that our desire, I knowfor me, like my desire is like,
I always wanna say the rightthing and be that comfort to
that person.
And so I tend to like operate ata fear of what if it's not, you
know, enough or I don't, I amgonna say the wrong thing.
(24:24):
And I've learned, like, peoplehave said things to me where I'm
like, That's really dumb,
Kimber (24:30):
Right.
Meghan (24:31):
but I know you love me.
Like, and it's okay.
Like it's okay.
And it's okay to say the dumbthing.
Like it's okay.
Kimber (24:37):
Yeah.
it's going to happen at somepoint or another.
Yeah.
Meghan (24:41):
I know that like, I know their heart in it is to love me
and I, and honestly, likethere's just some things that
you're not gonna reallyunderstand until.
You've had to walk through it.
Hopefully, maybe some things Younever have to.
But being on the other side ofthat, like I would say like as
someone being the friend thatwalked through, having a friend
that had a parent with cancerand now being the one that has a
(25:02):
parent with cancer, I'm like,oh, I get it?
now.
Like I see this.
Um, so there, there is a levelof that of understanding, you
know, you, again, it's not likeI can sympathize, but empathize
difference of, you know, I knowwhat I could sympathize with a
friend that had a parent withcancer, but now I have like, I,
(25:22):
I get this, you know, or health,like, I, I get it.
I un I understand what thisfeels like, you know, so,
Kimber (25:28):
And I feel like if you can't like, like, if you can
authentically empathize in thatmoment.
Like lean into that, you know,with an understanding that like
their experience may bedifferent because as you said,
like, grief is so different foreveryone.
But, um, if you can't like thatdoesn't mean that you shouldn't
be
Meghan (25:48):
Right.
Show up.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
You still need to be there.
Kimber (25:52):
Right.
So why do you feel like, is kindof that line, if you haven't
authentically experienced it,how you can still, you know,
show up with your whole heart,even though you fully recognize,
like, I don't understand whatthis
Meghan (26:04):
Yeah, yeah, I think that it can just be really practical
things like, again, like can Ibring you.
a meal?
That's a Great way to start ifyou're like, You wanna bring
dinner over?
Um, you know, I had a friend waslike, I'm gonna bring you
coffee, but I also wanna likeclean something at your house.
What can I clean?
Like, you know, and those areways of like, or just texting
(26:24):
them or calling, being like, Iknow, I'm just thinking about
you today.
And.
Just wanna let you know I loveyou and I'm here for you.
You know, and thinking of you.
Those are things that.
Like they mean so much and itdoesn't necessarily mean you've
had to walk through thosethings.
Um, but you're showing up.
You're not just because Yeah.
There's been Yeah.
(26:44):
Could, Yeah.
Because there's been peoplethat, that have done that, you
know, to me, and it's, it's hardcause I'm like, wow, I haven't
even heard from this person.
And I thought we were likereally good friends.
Kimber (26:53):
Right.
Meghan (26:54):
You know, and so then you're kinda like, huh,
interesting.
You know, and, and, and somebeen like, I didn't know what to
say, and I'm like, oh, I, I getthat.
You don't need to say anything.
Kimber (27:01):
Yeah.
Meghan (27:02):
no, like you just, Yeah.
just you just even saying like,I'm thinking about you today is
Kimber (27:06):
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah.
I think what you're saying with,like, we don't feel like these
kinds of things are quoteenough, but then the flip side
is that then we don't doanything.
Meghan (27:17):
Right,
Kimber (27:17):
then of course doesn't feel like enough.
So it's like.
So, you know, I think if wethought about that, we would be
like, oh yeah, duh, but youknow, in the
Meghan (27:25):
an all or nothing.
Kimber (27:26):
yes.
I think that if we, if we'vethought about that in the
moment, we would realize thatlike showing up and doing quote,
not enough is.
Is okay.
Like that's a starting place.
Meghan (27:38):
and showing up and saying the wrong thing is still
showing up,
Kimber (27:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Meghan (27:42):
you know?
Yeah.
Like at the end of the day, I'mlike, you still showed up?
Kimber (27:45):
And you never know like what that will build to.
Cause I think that the otherthing is like, you know, we
think of it as like a smallgesture, but like, you never
know like what conversationsmight come from that small
moment or like, you know, maybeyou'll bring that meal at like a
time that was really like a hardmoment and have an opportunity
(28:06):
to.
You know, love them in thatmoment and be there for them, or
maybe not like, you know, Ithink a lot of it too is like
letting go of our expectationswith what it should look like to
mourn with a friend.
And rather just letting like theholy spirit lead us.
It's through that time, whetherit's like an event.
And so it's like, you know, ashort time with that friend or
(28:28):
if it's over the course ofyears, like, man, If there's
anything that like walkingthrough grief with a friend has
taught me it's that.
this is a long haul and I can'trely on myself.
I even, if it wasn't a longhaul, I'm not going to be
sufficient in that moment.
But especially over the longhaul grief, I think it teaches
(28:48):
us that.
Man.
I just have to, like, in anygiven conversation, I need to
ask the holy spirit to guide mebecause otherwise I'm going to
like blunder through it and, youknow, Like, I'm never going to
be equipped because like yousaid, every one grieves
differently.
And so even if I do have likeauthentic, Empathy from my own
experience.
(29:09):
it still may be different.
for them.
And so
Meghan (29:11):
Mm-hmm.
Kimber (29:11):
think this is just such an area where leaning on the
holy spirit is, is you can justlike be, I think so comforting
to us too, because it's like,okay, it's not.
Like totally on me.
Like he's going to guide me andteach me how to, how to walk
through this with my friend andthe way that they uniquely need.
Meghan (29:28):
yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's so good.
Kimber (29:30):
So as we're kind of wrapping up this conversation, I
would love to, we couldobviously get way more into
that.
We could talk about that a lotmore.
But this is just like a touchpoint, I think, because we talk
about grief pretty often.
Here at the podcast, because Ithink that, you know, like I
(29:50):
said, this is the convert, theseare the kinds of conversations
that we need to have.
And so, As I've also saidthrough this series, one of my
hopes with this summer series isthat it would be more of like a
springboard for theseconversations to happen.
Like with your people.
Like, we don't have time to gointo all the things.
And even if we did, like we'vesaid, This is something that's
(30:11):
so unique to people's individualfriendships.
And so I hope that thisconversation will just be a
touch point to remind you that.
as we are mourning with ourfriends, that impacts our
friendships deeply and that, youknow, we really need the Lord to
walk through those moments withus.
So as we're looking at ourchallenge for this conversation,
(30:35):
you know, this is something thatmight be a present reality in
someone's life, or it might notbe right now.
So like, what do you think is away that we can kind of put this
into practice or take thisconversation to our friendships
this week?
Meghan (30:50):
Yeah.
So I think that like thechallenge.
Yeah, Cause like you said, youmight presently be the one
that's in a season of mourningand grief or you know, your
friend is, or someone else.
Or you might be like, there'sreally nothing going on.
Um, maybe in your immediatecircle, but there kind of always
is, you know?
And so, I'd say a practical stepis if you're someone that's
(31:11):
like, I'm not really sure whatto do, um, reach out with some
practical things to that personof.
Hey, can I go do this for you?
Is that, you know, and theymight say no, but then they
might say no, but I could have,this would be something great
that I would love to have, youknow?
Um, and so taking that firststep of just communicating like,
Hey, I'm here for you withsomething that you might need,
(31:33):
and be specific about it.
and then if you are someonethat's like, I'm in this really
like, Morning season, and Ihaven't really let that a person
into that of, of taking thatstep to, to speak about it.
Like, find that friend that youknow that you can trust and
going to them and being like, Ineed to bring you, bring you in
on this a little
Kimber (31:51):
Yeah, I love that.
Mm, that's so good.
Cause that's kind of those, bothsides, both sides of it.
And I love that.
You know, you mentioned thatthey might say no, but I think
what I see in that is that evenif they say, no, I don't need
that or whatever, or I don'twant you to do that right now.
they still have learned throughthat interaction that you were
(32:13):
thinking about them and that youcare about them.
And, and so to me it's still awin, you know, and you're still
showing that love for them.
Even if they end up refusingwhatever care you're trained to
provide.
Meghan (32:25):
And it's a good muscle if you're someone that doesn't
like to ask for help.
When people, as someone whodoesn't like to ask for help, to
be like, Um, yes.
Cuz I know that.
they're trying to like, love me.
And so, letting, like not takingaway that gift from them of
like, they wanna bless me, youknow, and so, so let them clean
your toilet.
It's okay.
It's okay.
Kimber (32:46):
Yeah.
We all have cleaned a toiletbefore.
And
Meghan (32:49):
we have.
Kimber (32:49):
it's not like some weird thing.
Yeah.
Meghan (32:51):
Yeah.
Kimber (32:52):
But it feels like it sometimes, but yeah, I love
that.
And then just like sharing, likeyou said, if you're the one
walking through it, I'm bringingsomeone into that.
I think just that, it might be abig.
Hey, I need to unload this onyou.
Or it might be somethingsmaller, like just a small share
of, Hey, I'm having a hard day.
Can you pray for me?
Or, you
Meghan (33:12):
Yes, I, Yeah.
And I love that.
Yep.
I love that.
cuz it does, I think that justbuilds that muscle of like
reaching out.
Like even like, well today Ialready, I already got two of
like, Hey, it's having a roughday.
Can you pray for me?
You know, I got a, anothercolored heart from a friend.
She's a different color Andshe's like, I got you.
I'm praying, you know, I have noidea what's going on.
You know, but I'm praying, Yeah.
Kimber (33:32):
that.
And back to our trustconversation.
That's an opportunity then to,you know, trust God with that
friendship and pray for them andtrust that he'll do the work.
Even if you don't know thedetails.
Meghan (33:43):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Kimber (33:44):
Uh, I love it.
Well, thank you so much forhaving this conversation with me
today, Megan.
I, like I said, I, I really.
Believe in not avoiding the hardconversation.
Meghan (33:53):
Yes.
Yeah, same.
Kimber (33:55):
into that with me.
Meghan (33:56):
Yes.
No, thank you.
Kimber (33:58):
Well, thanks for hanging out with us today, friends.
Uh, GOFI.
Sophie the friend you need.
We love you guys.
Meghan (34:03):
Yep.
Bye.
Kimber (34:09):
Friends.
I'm so glad you could join meand Megan on the show this week.
I know that morning with ourfriends.
Isn't the easiest thing to talkabout.
And we often don't want to thinkabout it until we find ourselves
swimming in it.
So thank you for going therewith me and Megan today.
I pray that God blesses yourrelationships through it.
(34:29):
If you're loving this series sofar, would you tell a friend
about the podcast this week?
To shoot her a message or thepost from social media or a text
or an episode link and ask ifshe would listen.
So you guys can talk about itthe next time you hang out.
My prayer for this series, isthat in Holly gets you thinking,
but it gets you engaging inthese kinds of conversations
with your own friends on yourcouch or across the table or on
(34:53):
your next walk or hike.
And because I know how busysummer can guys are out doing
all those awesome things.
Make sure that you havesubscribed to the podcast
wherever you listen, so thatevery week your episode pops up
and you don't miss a single one,you can also sign up to be part
of my newsletter crews so thatyou get a weekly preview
directly to your email inbox.
Of what will be on the podcastthat week.
(35:14):
I also like to include a tip ofthe week to try in that email
and some other goodies.
So make sure you check that outat your sister, kimber.com.
Friends.
Thank you so much for spendingpart of your day with us until
next time.
It's your sister Kimber.
Hey friends.
Welcome to the, your sisterKimber podcast.
My name is Kimber Gilbert, andI'm so glad you're here.
Y'all know, I don't like to shyaway from hard conversations and
today is no different.
My summer guest co-host MeganFreeville.
And I are talking today aboutbeing a friend who has the
capacity to mourn alongside ourfriends.
(00:31):
Grief can be terribly tricky.
Right.
And I know for me, at least, andmany of us the tendency is to
try to navigate it alone.
But when we can allow ourtrusted people into the space of
mourning with us and when we canbe people who aren't afraid to
enter into that space with ourfriends, when they're walking
that road, our friendships willbe richer for it.
(00:52):
And I think it's going to growour relationships with the Lord
too.
So friends, I pray that thisconversation today draws you
closer to Jesus and closer toyour people.
I wish we could talk this oneover face to face with maybe
something iced and caffeinatedin hand, but this is the next
best thing.
I'm so glad you hear friend.
Let's get started.
(01:17):
Hey friends, Megan.
Welcome back to the
Meghan (01:21):
Hey, how's it going?
Thanks for having me.
Kimber (01:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks for being here.
Man when this conversation airs,we're having this conversation
in June, but it will be the endof July.
When this comes out, thatactually freaks me out a little
bit because.
'cause I just feel like summer,I mean, summer in Alaska
especially is so fleeting, um,which
Meghan (01:43):
It's especially fleeting this year.
Kimber (01:44):
It's especially fleeting.
Yes.
We've been talking about this.
It's like, it's been Jerry andman, that's just tough when it's
like, you have like nine monthsof winter and it makes the
summer seem so special and likeprecious, which is I'm glad for,
but.
Then when it's a little bithard, it's, it's a challenge.
Meghan (02:04):
That's a challenge.
Kimber (02:05):
My question for you, Megan is if you had to live
somewhere.
That was always winter.
Or somewhere that was alwayssummer.
Like it was only one or theother all year round, which
would you pick?
Do you think.
Meghan (02:18):
Okay.
I'm gonna shock everyone.
My family's gonna die, but I'mgonna say I would rather have
winter because I, I grew up inArizona and it's basically
always summer.
Even in the winter.
It's like, you know, 75.
You can only take, this isgonna, you can take So many
clothes, so many clothes offguys like, you know, and so I'm
(02:42):
just gonna say, you can't go outwhen it's, you can't go out when
it's 120 degrees out.
So, um, and so it gets so hard,like especially the summers
there, you know, to, like, Iremember taking my kids to the
park and You're going at 7:00 AMbecause by eight o'clock it's 95
degrees outside and then you'reinside all day.
Whereas like the winter, I canbundle up and I can go do all
(03:05):
the things still.
So,
Kimber (03:06):
Right.
Meghan (03:07):
I'm, I'm gonna say winner.
I'm
Kimber (03:09):
Or, I mean with winter, Yeah.
I, so I grew up in Kansas wherewe have like your typical four
seasons.
And so, um, but I feel like Iwould probably go with summer
just because I've neverexperienced that.
But as someone who.
I know I've heard that frompeople before who like live in
climates that are like alwayssummer.
(03:30):
They're like, ah, I just like,it gets old and.
And I feel like that's whysummer in Alaska is so precious
because you really like.
Feel that just want a need toenjoy it and like really soak it
up.
But I feel like if it was allthe time, I probably would get
sick of it like that, but Iwould get sick of winter year,
round twos.
Meghan (03:50):
I know.
I mean,
Kimber (03:51):
I don't know what I would say.
Meghan (03:52):
yes, But I
Kimber (03:53):
you do, you do a bunch?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Meghan (03:56):
I do a bunch.
And that was, That was the bestadvice people gave me when we
moved up here was you have tofind something you love to do in
the winter or else you're notgonna make it in Alaska.
And so that's why I started likehiking in the winter and cross
country skiing.
Um, and every year trying tolike add to that, you know, so
it was like one year and thisyear I'm like, maybe we'll fat
(04:17):
tire bike this year.
Like, try to figure out, youknow, just different things.
Um, because It is.
so long, there's long winterhere.
But I love having the seasonschange.
Like Arizona, there's really noseasons changing and um, Yeah.
it just gets kind of old fast,
Kimber (04:33):
Yeah.
I feel like that's somethingthat I want to do better with is
the like winter activity that Ienjoy.
And it's like,
Meghan (04:41):
that.
I'll take you out.
We're gonna go out and do
Kimber (04:43):
know I do.
I I've been saying for likethree years now that I want to
learn to cross country ski, so Ineed to actually do it this
year.
Meghan (04:50):
go do it.
Let's go do it.
Kimber (04:51):
it.
Meghan (04:51):
Yeah.
we'll do it.
We'll do
Kimber (04:53):
I love it.
Well, Um, even though we were onthe back half of summer, um,
once this comes out, Um, thatmeans we're also on the back
half of our series, our summerseries being the friends you
need.
And, my biggest prayer out ofthis series is just that, as
we're pursuing these Godhonorary friendships, that God
would use it to grow closer tohim.
(05:14):
And, you know, in thisrelationship, in our lives, that
is the most important, like wetalked about friendship a lot
here, and those are importantrelationships, but of course,
like our relationship with Godis.
The most important, thatrelationship that we have.
And so I love seeing just howGod has given us like
relationships with people thatpoint us toward the superiority
(05:35):
of our relationship with him.
And so I would love to hear, tokind of get us started today.
Just how you see friendship inyour life working to draw you
closer to the Lord himself.
Like what do you feel likefriendship, does to grow your
relationship with God?
Meghan (05:51):
I think that it helps me see, uh, I know since before
like just a different piece ofGod.
Um, maybe it's something thatlike, you know, we've got all,
have our blinders on and they'reable to speak in, in that
moment, um, that God will speakthrough them to me or vice
versa.
it helps.
We have like that tangible pieceof like right now I'm not
(06:12):
physically in the presence ofthe Lord, but at times, like I
am experiencing that with myfriendships when we're having
that spiritual intimacy.
and so Yeah.
I think that it brings a lot ofthose character qualities that
we love about God, really likeearth side for us to experience,
um, and being able todemonstrate that for each other.
Kimber (06:32):
Yeah, I love that experiencing it or side idea.
Yeah.
It's like, it's just such aglimpse, but it's, it's great.
When it, yeah.
When we do it.
Right.
I love that.
so as we're talking today,getting into our topic, it's
like, man, those moments thatare.
Just so good.
I feel like give us a glimpse ofheaven, but then I feel like
(06:54):
those moments that are reallyhard can do that too.
Um, but in a different way, youknow, it's like, it's maybe not
that forward look, but it'slike, man, in the midst of like
my hard life circumstances, thisis a way that, like, I feel like
God's presence can be made.
So.
tangible to us is through thepeople in our lives when they
(07:14):
love us well, through our hardmoments.
And so, I think this aspect ofour relationships is so
important and just reminds usto, like, we just should not do
life alone because it's sotough.
Like we need.
People to support us in thesedark seasons.
and I'm such a believer inpressing into hard
conversations.
And so today we're going to talkabout mourning in our
(07:36):
friendships and just how we canbe a friend who mourns with our
people.
And so I'm going to break theice.
We're going to get into it.
I feel like people want to havethese kinds of conversations
because they want to, they wantto talk about the stuff that
really matters, but I feel likeso many of us don't know how to
get there.
Like, we don't know how to.
I bring it up.
(07:57):
And so, we're going to talkabout it today.
Meghan (07:59):
Let's, let's do it.
Kimber (08:00):
see what we come up with.
and so just this idea of likeauthentically mourning alongside
our people.
I don't think that this is agiven in every friendship.
Like, I feel like this is kindof.
Like holding space for hard.
These hard conversations is Ithink, an acquired ability.
So, um, you know, what has beenyour experience with like having
(08:21):
this space to mourn and like gothrough the hard things with
your friends?
Versus friendships that don'tlike, is this a given for your
friendships or not so much?
Do you
Meghan (08:31):
Yeah, so I would say I would say since moving to
Alaska, we've been kind of hardhit with a lot of stuff just in
our families and with my, myfriends here.
you know, I've had friends thathave lost parents and, you know,
my mom's got diagnosed withcancer and I had my own big
health thing last year.
And so there was like a lot ofmourning going on.
And I would say like up untilthat moment I hadn't really
(08:52):
experienced like a deep, like,there's been mornings of, you
know, Like health issues withfriends or like marriage or
whatever and things like that.
But like some of those reallybig, deep things I hadn't really
walked through as a friendbefore until really like two
years ago.
and also being on the flip sideof that, of like also now I'm
the one that's mourning and notjust, Yeah.
(09:14):
Yeah.
And so, Yeah.
so it is kind of like a newerthing for me and it really is
like one of those things that insome ways you don't always know.
It's, it's mourning and grief isa really tough subject cuz
everyone does it so differently
Kimber (09:27):
Yeah.
Meghan (09:28):
and they, any you have to show up differently for
everybody.
Kimber (09:31):
Hm.
Right.
How, how would you say let'sstart with the side.
Of cause I agree that there'stwo sides to this.
Like letting friends into yourpersonal grief.
that's not always easy
Meghan (09:46):
Nope.
Kimber (09:47):
by any means.
and then entering into others.
Moments of mourning.
Like I think that's where weexperienced a lot of awkwardness
maybe, or like, we don't knowhow to do that.
so let's start with the firstone and then we can get to the
other side of it too.
so just that idea of likeletting people into.
(10:08):
Your own moments of like griefand mourning.
you say that this is kind oflike a new thing for you.
Like how have you learned to dothat?
Like, what does that look likefor you?
Meghan (10:18):
Yeah.
it's been hard.
I've said that still for me.
Like I'm always a person who'slike, I'm Right.
there.
I'll, I'll jump in.
I'm gonna be in your grief withyou and we're gonna do this
together.
And then when it's like, oh, Igotta let people in on my stuff,
I'm like, oh, I don't know.
I don't know.
that's been a, a harder musclefor me to learn.
Um, you know, I'll just saylike, With on one instance, like
(10:41):
with my mom and cancer, likethat was an easier one for me to
let people into because itwasn't like, my own personal
like heart thing.
It was like an external thingthat's happening.
And that was very easy to letpeople like come into that
space.
Um, with my health stuff that Ihad last year, um, that was
really hard.
I, I only let a few peoplereally into that part because it
(11:01):
was so, it was so heavy for me.
And it's hard and it's like, butit could be anything.
I mean, it doesn't even have tobe something physical.
It could be like, my marriage isfalling apart or my kid's gone
wayward, or financial thingslike whatever.
And those are the parts whereit's so like, you feel so tender
and vulnerable.
And I know for me it's like if Ilet this out of the bag, What's
(11:25):
gonna happen next?
And so it really is like, Ithink at that point, I know like
the last episode we talked aboutbeing a trustworthy friend, like
this is where this is like therubber meets the road of letting
those trustworthy people intothat part of my life and knowing
that they're gonna love me andcare for me.
They might not agree with me, amI?
You know, there's gonna be sometough love, but meeting me with
(11:47):
that grace and knowing I cantrust their heart in that
process.
Kimber (11:51):
Yeah.
I feel like one of the thingsthat can be, can feel hard with
this, at least for me is.
I think sometimes it feels likeI need to, like, if I'm going to
let them in, I got a L.
Just dump everything.
Um, you know, or like it's goingto be like a big moment or
something.
I don't know.
But really, I think this happensin like small.
Meghan (12:12):
Yeah.
Kimber (12:13):
moments of vulnerability or like small shares.
Over time.
because, you know, I think wehype it up in our mind that
like, well, if I'm gonna, youknow, let someone into mourn
with me, it's going to be likethis huge long heart to heart,
and it's going to be this wholeordeal and that might happen.
But it also might be just likea.
(12:34):
you know, you've talked aboutbefore, like the sending the
purple heart or like tellingsomeone like, Hey, I'm having a
really hard day today with this.
And just like allowing them tosee, um, that side of your life.
and I think that can happen injust like small shares, even if,
you know, if it feels likeoverwhelming.
(12:55):
I think that it doesn't have tobe such a huge thing.
Um, what do you feel like is thebiggest barrier for you when you
were, when you're like trying toallow those trustworthy people
in, um, what do you feel like isthe biggest barrier for you of
why you don't.
Or
Meghan (13:11):
I think for me, I would say for me it's shame.
Kimber (13:13):
Okay.
Meghan (13:14):
I'm let, I'm letting you in on my mess
Kimber (13:16):
Gotcha.
Meghan (13:17):
how are you going to carry that?
Kimber (13:20):
Yeah.
Meghan (13:21):
cuz for me it's more, it's not less like I need to
have this big drawn out story.
It's like I need to have it kindof cleaned up in a pretty bow on
it and be like, here's myproblem, but I've got it all
tied up and it's like, you know,and this gloss over, which is
not really real.
Um, and so just being like, Hereit is.
Kimber (13:37):
it is.
Yeah.
I don't have an answer.
I
Meghan (13:40):
I don't have yeah,
Kimber (13:40):
Yeah.
Um,
Meghan (13:42):
And so, but I think it's shame of like, I should.
For me, it's, uh, I should dobetter.
I should be better.
I shouldn't be struggling withthis.
Um, and so for me, that's my,that's my barrier.
Kimber (13:52):
Um, so many, so many of us, I think have that narrative
of, I shouldn't be strugglingwith this.
And I feel like I hear that.
I've heard that a lot over theyears and I don't know.
Like, why do you think we.
Go there.
Like, why is that something thatwe believe even if we like
intellectually know that that'snot true, you know?
(14:13):
like, of course we will strugglewith stuff.
You know what I mean?
Meghan (14:15):
Yep.
Yep.
I honestly, I always take itback to like good old eve in the
garden of like that beingdeceived and that that whole of,
but you, but you, but you knowmore, you can do that
questioning of, can I trust God?
Instead of my or can I trust me?
And so there, I feel likethere's like that tension that
(14:36):
like the enemy just put in fromday one of you can't trust
yourself,
Kimber (14:41):
Mm.
Yeah.
Andrew can't trust the people
Meghan (14:44):
And you can't trust the people around you Yeah.
Yeah.
Or God.
Or
Kimber (14:47):
Right.
Right man, we can't trust.
Yeah.
He comes at
Meghan (14:51):
just do it all, all
Kimber (14:52):
angles.
Yeah.
And that's one reason I love,you know, the friendship tie
here is because like, not onlydo we have to try to trust other
people and when we.
When we share vulnerably, in ourgrief or in anything.
When we share.
Vulnerably with a friend, we arefighting back against that lie
(15:12):
of the enemy.
And we're saying, Nope, I'm notgoing to listen to that.
But then at the same time, whenwe share vulnerably with a
friend, we're also finding isthat lie that like you can't
trust yourself because, maybe.
Your better judgment or not yourbetter judgment, but your, you
know, flesh, if you will, um,says, Nope, I should just take
care of this.
Uh, you know, on my own orwhatever, you're fighting
(15:34):
against that when you articulateand trust someone else with it.
And then you're trusting Godtoo, because you know that like
that person isn't going toperfectly handle it, but that
the Lord still holds your, holdsyour heart in that.
So, yeah, I love thatconnection.
Meghan (15:49):
Yeah, Good.
Kimber (15:50):
what would you say then about like the other side?
Of it, because I think the otherside is entering into others
morning.
Like when you, aren't the onewho is directly.
Um, it's in there life, but youstill are like walking along.
The path with others.
I feel like this is the spacewhere sometimes we don't enter
(16:13):
into others.
Morning, because like, we feelawkward or we don't want to like
impose or we don't know how todo
Meghan (16:19):
to say?
Yeah.
Kimber (16:21):
yes.
Yes.
So how have you experienced kindof that side of things?
Meghan (16:26):
Yeah.
it's really tricky.
I honestly didn't realize howhard it was until I walked.
Through a friend in her deepgrief and like feeling like, I
don't know if I do this well.
Um, because it's hard cuz it'slike you don't know what to say.
It's hard sometimes to knowlike, there's no perfect words,
(16:46):
there's No, like, I I tend to bea fixer and I'm like, I just
wanna make you feel better.
What can I do?
And it's like, you can't fix itYou just can't.
And so it just is.
what it is.
Um, I read this really amazingbook, a long time ago called
Just Show Up.
And it was about, it wasactually a girl, Um, I think her
name was Kara Tippet.
She got breast cancer.
(17:07):
She ended up passing away, butshe wrote this book during her
cancer journey with her bestfriend about like grief and how
to walk through.
And the whole concept was like,Just showing up, just show up
with a meal.
Just, just sit there and notfeel like you have to say
anything, but just to let themcry.
Just to listen, just to holdtheir hand.
(17:28):
I think so, so many times wewanna come with like the fix it,
the like, I can make this betterplatter and You just can't,
like, you just,
Kimber (17:38):
there's nothing.
Yeah.
Meghan (17:39):
and, and asking them like, what can I do for you?
Like, that's been a really bigone that I've learned is like,
What can I do for you?
Like, they don't even know.
They don't even know, like, andso having really like practical
things of like, can I take thekids to the park for you so you
can be alone today?
Or, Hey, can I come fold up?
You know, a basket of laundry.
Like having really like specificthings.
(18:01):
you know, or sometimes it'slike, hey, if it's nothing like
a physical thing, maybe it's,again, it's just more of an
emotional challenge happening ofdo you wanna like start.
Screen the Bible together.
You wanna go get coffee once aweek or let's just go for a
walk?
And that's just like our timeand you can just process, you
know, there's so many differentangles to this,
Kimber (18:20):
Yeah.
I feel like a big part of thatis like, You know, knowing your
friend.
I don't remember.
Maybe it was with you or maybeit's with someone else.
I don't remember who said this,but they were talking about
like, you know, knowing yourfriend, uh, before.
Like the metaphorical poo
Meghan (18:37):
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Kimber (18:38):
Oh, I think it was in my conversation with Sally Jo cook.
When we talked about grief afterher loss of her husband.
she was like, you know, do thatwork of like, getting to know
your friend before you're inthat moment where you have to
figure out what to do.
And of course that isn't always.
Meghan (18:57):
Yeah.
The case.
Kimber (18:58):
But I think many times, you know, it can be.
And so putting in the work tolike, get to know how your
friend processes.
You know, is it external,internal, do they need time or
they want to talk about it?
Like.
Knowing, just that simple thingbefore you're in
Meghan (19:17):
so good.
Yeah, that's so good becausethat's exactly what happened,
um, with me is in January, mymom's cancer, my mom's cancer
came back and I got the calland, it had sort of gone away
and six weeks later it came backat like stage four and, um, it,
that obviously it was like, Igotta get to Arizona as fast as
(19:37):
possible.
But what happened that day?
Without me, like I just kind ofput the word out there.
Hey guys, this is what happened.
Like I'm trying to get down toArizona.
Just be praying.
I can't even tell you.
I think I had like 10 peoplestop by at my house within like
two hours with.
Coffee with flowers,
Kimber (19:53):
Mm.
Meghan (19:54):
friends were like, Megan needs is the one that like when
this, when the crap hits thefan, like needs her people.
And they just literally, like mydoor was just
Kimber (20:02):
They
Meghan (20:02):
for hours of like, I just came to give you a hug.
I don't have to stay.
But then at one point, I thinkthere was like six of us in my
living room and we were just allcrying like, you know, and it
was so exactly what I needed andI didn't even ask for it.
It was just like, we know Meganis gonna like, Need that.
Need that, you know?
And so that was, that's soperfect cuz that's literally
Yeah.
(20:22):
it's so true.
Like they
Kimber (20:24):
And I think it enables you to respond with a little
more confidence.
I, you know, I think there isalways that aspect of, and this
is important of.
I'm not going to get this right.
And so I think we can have adesire to get it right.
To like, love our friend.
Well, in that moment and like,you know, sit in their, in their
(20:45):
grief with them, mourn withthem, but we can't, I think have
a need to get it.
Meghan (20:50):
Yeah, Right.
Yeah.
Oh
Kimber (20:53):
if I have a desire to do it well, like that just honors
my friend, it honors God.
Like, you know, I'm trying tolove them.
Well, But if I have a need to doit right.
Um, that will probably have mewalking in fear of saying the
wrong thing or doing somethingthat ends up somehow hurting
(21:14):
their feelings.
But I can't possibly know all ofthat.
Like I can try.
But I can't have a need to doit.
Right.
Cause I think that's just goingto end up handicapping me or
like paralyzing me in thosemoments when, it's more
important that I demonstratesome kind of care, even if it
ends up not being exactly whatwas the most helpful or
something.
I think the, the showing up orthe demonstrating the.
(21:36):
The desire is, can be.
almost the most important thing.
Meghan (21:41):
yeah, yeah.
That's so true.
That's really good.
Kimber (21:44):
What do you think like.
Keeps us from going to thosemoments, like, you know, you're
talking about, you know, withyour mom, like.
if there was someone who, whodidn't show up in that moment
for you, what do you feel likewould have kept them away?
Like what do you think is aroadblock to us of.
Being present in those moments.
Meghan (22:05):
I think it's a fear of, The unknown of, I don't know,
maybe not knowing what to sayagain.
It's not like I feel like I haveto come up with the answers.
Um, I think that it's, we don'tlike to just sit in the quiet,
in the awkwardness of like, andespecially with grief of like
literally just sitting there isgonna be the best thing you can
do.
But we, I think we so just wannahave like the Right.
(22:28):
word or the right bible verseand the right thing, and.
it's just not like you justgotta,
Kimber (22:34):
Right.
Meghan (22:35):
gotta be.
And I think that's really hardfor a lot of us to, I think it
just feels like it's not enoughwhen really, like, It really is.
you know?
Um, yeah.
Kimber (22:45):
So yeah, I feel like.
I got to experience thatrecently with a friend
Meghan (22:50):
Mm-hmm.
Kimber (22:51):
got some news and we were in like the same place
together.
And so there wasn't really anoption to like, Okay, I'm going
to let you be.
Don't really Like
Meghan (23:00):
Right,
Kimber (23:00):
Like we just were in this space.
And so, and I knew at that pointthat there wasn't anything I
could say, like there wasnothing I needed to contribute
in that moment.
Like I tend to be a fixer.
And so a lot of times I, I havethe, the, uh, tendency to like,
look forward to like, what'snext.
Or like, you know, somethinglike that.
(23:21):
And, but I already knew thatstuff, like we'd talked about
it.
And, and so there was just, itwas very apparent.
There was nothing.
That needed to be said in thatmoment.
And it like forced me.
To sit quiet in that, in thatspace.
And, man that I think is amuscle.
I wonder if it's a muscle thatwe practice.
(23:42):
Yeah.
Meghan (23:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cuz it's really hard.
It's hard.
I think like, Yeah.
I've been on the end of that.
I had, a years ago I had afriend that passed away really
unexpectedly, and I was withfriends when I got the phone
call and it was that same thingof like, you're just thrown into
it.
There's no like preparing if I'mgonna go to meet them and just
sit there.
You know, you're just kind of,sometimes that's easier than the
(24:03):
like, I know that I'm gonna showup and Yeah.
I'm Building it.
Um, but it's, yeah, it's hard.
It's so hard cuz Yeah.
I think that our desire, I knowfor me, like my desire is like,
I always wanna say the rightthing and be that comfort to
that person.
And so I tend to like operate ata fear of what if it's not, you
know, enough or I don't, I amgonna say the wrong thing.
(24:24):
And I've learned, like, peoplehave said things to me where I'm
like, That's really dumb,
Kimber (24:30):
Right.
Meghan (24:31):
but I know you love me.
Like, and it's okay.
Like it's okay.
And it's okay to say the dumbthing.
Like it's okay.
Kimber (24:37):
Yeah.
it's going to happen at somepoint or another.
Yeah.
Meghan (24:41):
I know that like, I know their heart in it is to love me
and I, and honestly, likethere's just some things that
you're not gonna reallyunderstand until.
You've had to walk through it.
Hopefully, maybe some things Younever have to.
But being on the other side ofthat, like I would say like as
someone being the friend thatwalked through, having a friend
that had a parent with cancerand now being the one that has a
(25:02):
parent with cancer, I'm like,oh, I get it?
now.
Like I see this.
Um, so there, there is a levelof that of understanding, you
know, you, again, it's not likeI can sympathize, but empathize
difference of, you know, I knowwhat I could sympathize with a
friend that had a parent withcancer, but now I have like, I,
(25:22):
I get this, you know, or health,like, I, I get it.
I un I understand what thisfeels like, you know, so,
Kimber (25:28):
And I feel like if you can't like, like, if you can
authentically empathize in thatmoment.
Like lean into that, you know,with an understanding that like
their experience may bedifferent because as you said,
like, grief is so different foreveryone.
But, um, if you can't like thatdoesn't mean that you shouldn't
be
Meghan (25:48):
Right.
Show up.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
You still need to be there.
Kimber (25:52):
Right.
So why do you feel like, is kindof that line, if you haven't
authentically experienced it,how you can still, you know,
show up with your whole heart,even though you fully recognize,
like, I don't understand whatthis
Meghan (26:04):
Yeah, yeah, I think that it can just be really practical
things like, again, like can Ibring you.
a meal?
That's a Great way to start ifyou're like, You wanna bring
dinner over?
Um, you know, I had a friend waslike, I'm gonna bring you
coffee, but I also wanna likeclean something at your house.
What can I clean?
Like, you know, and those areways of like, or just texting
(26:24):
them or calling, being like, Iknow, I'm just thinking about
you today.
And.
Just wanna let you know I loveyou and I'm here for you.
You know, and thinking of you.
Those are things that.
Like they mean so much and itdoesn't necessarily mean you've
had to walk through thosethings.
Um, but you're showing up.
You're not just because Yeah.
There's been Yeah.
(26:44):
Could, Yeah.
Because there's been peoplethat, that have done that, you
know, to me, and it's, it's hardcause I'm like, wow, I haven't
even heard from this person.
And I thought we were likereally good friends.
Kimber (26:53):
Right.
Meghan (26:54):
You know, and so then you're kinda like, huh,
interesting.
You know, and, and, and somebeen like, I didn't know what to
say, and I'm like, oh, I, I getthat.
You don't need to say anything.
Kimber (27:01):
Yeah.
Meghan (27:02):
no, like you just, Yeah.
just you just even saying like,I'm thinking about you today is
Kimber (27:06):
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah.
I think what you're saying with,like, we don't feel like these
kinds of things are quoteenough, but then the flip side
is that then we don't doanything.
Meghan (27:17):
Right,
Kimber (27:17):
then of course doesn't feel like enough.
So it's like.
So, you know, I think if wethought about that, we would be
like, oh yeah, duh, but youknow, in the
Meghan (27:25):
an all or nothing.
Kimber (27:26):
yes.
I think that if we, if we'vethought about that in the
moment, we would realize thatlike showing up and doing quote,
not enough is.
Is okay.
Like that's a starting place.
Meghan (27:38):
and showing up and saying the wrong thing is still
showing up,
Kimber (27:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Meghan (27:42):
you know?
Yeah.
Like at the end of the day, I'mlike, you still showed up?
Kimber (27:45):
And you never know like what that will build to.
Cause I think that the otherthing is like, you know, we
think of it as like a smallgesture, but like, you never
know like what conversationsmight come from that small
moment or like, you know, maybeyou'll bring that meal at like a
time that was really like a hardmoment and have an opportunity
(28:06):
to.
You know, love them in thatmoment and be there for them, or
maybe not like, you know, Ithink a lot of it too is like
letting go of our expectationswith what it should look like to
mourn with a friend.
And rather just letting like theholy spirit lead us.
It's through that time, whetherit's like an event.
And so it's like, you know, ashort time with that friend or
(28:28):
if it's over the course ofyears, like, man, If there's
anything that like walkingthrough grief with a friend has
taught me it's that.
this is a long haul and I can'trely on myself.
I even, if it wasn't a longhaul, I'm not going to be
sufficient in that moment.
But especially over the longhaul grief, I think it teaches
(28:48):
us that.
Man.
I just have to, like, in anygiven conversation, I need to
ask the holy spirit to guide mebecause otherwise I'm going to
like blunder through it and, youknow, Like, I'm never going to
be equipped because like yousaid, every one grieves
differently.
And so even if I do have likeauthentic, Empathy from my own
experience.
(29:09):
it still may be different.
for them.
And so
Meghan (29:11):
Mm-hmm.
Kimber (29:11):
think this is just such an area where leaning on the
holy spirit is, is you can justlike be, I think so comforting
to us too, because it's like,okay, it's not.
Like totally on me.
Like he's going to guide me andteach me how to, how to walk
through this with my friend andthe way that they uniquely need.
Meghan (29:28):
yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's so good.
Kimber (29:30):
So as we're kind of wrapping up this conversation, I
would love to, we couldobviously get way more into
that.
We could talk about that a lotmore.
But this is just like a touchpoint, I think, because we talk
about grief pretty often.
Here at the podcast, because Ithink that, you know, like I
(29:50):
said, this is the convert, theseare the kinds of conversations
that we need to have.
And so, As I've also saidthrough this series, one of my
hopes with this summer series isthat it would be more of like a
springboard for theseconversations to happen.
Like with your people.
Like, we don't have time to gointo all the things.
And even if we did, like we'vesaid, This is something that's
(30:11):
so unique to people's individualfriendships.
And so I hope that thisconversation will just be a
touch point to remind you that.
as we are mourning with ourfriends, that impacts our
friendships deeply and that, youknow, we really need the Lord to
walk through those moments withus.
So as we're looking at ourchallenge for this conversation,
(30:35):
you know, this is something thatmight be a present reality in
someone's life, or it might notbe right now.
So like, what do you think is away that we can kind of put this
into practice or take thisconversation to our friendships
this week?
Meghan (30:50):
Yeah.
So I think that like thechallenge.
Yeah, Cause like you said, youmight presently be the one
that's in a season of mourningand grief or you know, your
friend is, or someone else.
Or you might be like, there'sreally nothing going on.
Um, maybe in your immediatecircle, but there kind of always
is, you know?
And so, I'd say a practical stepis if you're someone that's
(31:11):
like, I'm not really sure whatto do, um, reach out with some
practical things to that personof.
Hey, can I go do this for you?
Is that, you know, and theymight say no, but then they
might say no, but I could have,this would be something great
that I would love to have, youknow?
Um, and so taking that firststep of just communicating like,
Hey, I'm here for you withsomething that you might need,
(31:33):
and be specific about it.
and then if you are someonethat's like, I'm in this really
like, Morning season, and Ihaven't really let that a person
into that of, of taking thatstep to, to speak about it.
Like, find that friend that youknow that you can trust and
going to them and being like, Ineed to bring you, bring you in
on this a little
Kimber (31:51):
Yeah, I love that.
Mm, that's so good.
Cause that's kind of those, bothsides, both sides of it.
And I love that.
You know, you mentioned thatthey might say no, but I think
what I see in that is that evenif they say, no, I don't need
that or whatever, or I don'twant you to do that right now.
they still have learned throughthat interaction that you were
(32:13):
thinking about them and that youcare about them.
And, and so to me it's still awin, you know, and you're still
showing that love for them.
Even if they end up refusingwhatever care you're trained to
provide.
Meghan (32:25):
And it's a good muscle if you're someone that doesn't
like to ask for help.
When people, as someone whodoesn't like to ask for help, to
be like, Um, yes.
Cuz I know that.
they're trying to like, love me.
And so, letting, like not takingaway that gift from them of
like, they wanna bless me, youknow, and so, so let them clean
your toilet.
It's okay.
It's okay.
Kimber (32:46):
Yeah.
We all have cleaned a toiletbefore.
And
Meghan (32:49):
we have.
Kimber (32:49):
it's not like some weird thing.
Yeah.
Meghan (32:51):
Yeah.
Kimber (32:52):
But it feels like it sometimes, but yeah, I love
that.
And then just like sharing, likeyou said, if you're the one
walking through it, I'm bringingsomeone into that.
I think just that, it might be abig.
Hey, I need to unload this onyou.
Or it might be somethingsmaller, like just a small share
of, Hey, I'm having a hard day.
Can you pray for me?
Or, you
Meghan (33:12):
Yes, I, Yeah.
And I love that.
Yep.
I love that.
cuz it does, I think that justbuilds that muscle of like
reaching out.
Like even like, well today Ialready, I already got two of
like, Hey, it's having a roughday.
Can you pray for me?
You know, I got a, anothercolored heart from a friend.
She's a different color Andshe's like, I got you.
I'm praying, you know, I have noidea what's going on.
You know, but I'm praying, Yeah.
Kimber (33:32):
that.
And back to our trustconversation.
That's an opportunity then to,you know, trust God with that
friendship and pray for them andtrust that he'll do the work.
Even if you don't know thedetails.
Meghan (33:43):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Kimber (33:44):
Uh, I love it.
Well, thank you so much forhaving this conversation with me
today, Megan.
I, like I said, I, I really.
Believe in not avoiding the hardconversation.
Meghan (33:53):
Yes.
Yeah, same.
Kimber (33:55):
into that with me.
Meghan (33:56):
Yes.
No, thank you.
Kimber (33:58):
Well, thanks for hanging out with us today, friends.
Uh, GOFI.
Sophie the friend you need.
We love you guys.
Meghan (34:03):
Yep.
Bye.
Kimber (34:09):
Friends.
I'm so glad you could join meand Megan on the show this week.
I know that morning with ourfriends.
Isn't the easiest thing to talkabout.
And we often don't want to thinkabout it until we find ourselves
swimming in it.
So thank you for going therewith me and Megan today.
I pray that God blesses yourrelationships through it.
(34:29):
If you're loving this series sofar, would you tell a friend
about the podcast this week?
To shoot her a message or thepost from social media or a text
or an episode link and ask ifshe would listen.
So you guys can talk about itthe next time you hang out.
My prayer for this series, isthat in Holly gets you thinking,
but it gets you engaging inthese kinds of conversations
with your own friends on yourcouch or across the table or on
(34:53):
your next walk or hike.
And because I know how busysummer can guys are out doing
all those awesome things.
Make sure that you havesubscribed to the podcast
wherever you listen, so thatevery week your episode pops up
and you don't miss a single one,you can also sign up to be part
of my newsletter crews so thatyou get a weekly preview
directly to your email inbox.
Of what will be on the podcastthat week.
(35:14):
I also like to include a tip ofthe week to try in that email
and some other goodies.
So make sure you check that outat your sister, kimber.com.
Friends.
Thank you so much for spendingpart of your day with us until
next time.
It's your sister Kimber.
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