August 2, 2023 • 42 mins
Kimber talks with grief coach Julie Lynn Ashley about how grief, particularly from a death loss, impacts our friendships.
Julie Lynn holds a Masters of Science in Thanatology (death, grief and bereavement), is a member of the Association for Death Education and Counseling, mom to Landon and Kyle (both in college) and wife to her very best friend of 27 years, Doug, who is a lead pastor in Texas. Julie Lynn has worked and volunteered in the hospice industry for years and there developed a God-given passion to support grieving people. She now has her own grief support ministry (both in person and online) where she works with people one on one who need support following a death loss. Learn more, find vetted resources, and get support from Julie Lynn at julielynnashley.com.
Resources Mentioned by Julie Lynn:
What's Your Grief (15:23): https://whatsyourgrief.com/
Nancy Guthrie Video (25:21): https://youtu.be/hEVEB3DEK7Y
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kimber (00:09):
Hey friends.
Welcome to the, your sisterKimber podcast.
My name is Kimberly Gilbert, andI'm so glad that you're here
today.
It's possibly one of the thingsfor this, from our minds when
walking through grief, but theseseasons of life do impact our
friendships.
Whether we're the ones walkingthrough grief and struggling to
know how to handle ourfriendships through that time.
Or if we're the friend trying towalk well alongside a grieving
(00:33):
friend, such an impactful timein life will naturally have
ripple effects into ourfriendships.
And so today we get to talk withgrief coach, Julie Lynn, Ashley,
and Julie Lynn has worked andvolunteered in the hospice
industry for years.
And there developed a God givenpassion to support grieving
people.
She now has her own griefsupport ministry, both in-person
(00:54):
and online, where she works withpeople one-on-one who needs
support following a death loss.
I pray our conversation todaygives you practical ideas to
love your friends well throughthis season.
And if you're walking throughgrief right now, yourself, That
it gives you hope and directionfor how you can relate to your
friends during this time.
I wish that we could have thistalk over coffee across the
(01:16):
table, but this is the next bestthing.
I'm so glad that you're here,friend.
Let's get started.
Hi, Julie Lynn.
Hello.
Hello,
Julie (01:29):
hello.
Thank you so much for having me,Kimber.
I'm excited to have thisconversation today.
Kimber (01:34):
Yeah, man, I am too.
Uh, we got connected a, a whileago through some kind of crazy,
different connections that Iactually don't still fully
understand.
But, man, you've been such ablessing to our community here
and I'm so excited to talk withyou today.
Um, we're not talking about a.
Topic that is super easy.
We're talking about grief today,but man, I think it's so, so
(01:56):
important and, I know that it'sa big part of your work and so
I'm really excited to learn morefrom you today.
Julie (02:03):
Yes.
I'm excited to talk about, eventhough it's a hard subject.
Yeah.
There's, um, a place for us towalk with grieving people and
then to get to talk withgrieving people directly.
So I'm excited for all thefacets of this conversation.
Kimber (02:17):
Cool.
Well, why don't you go ahead andintroduce yourself to our
friends listening who may notknow who you are.
Julie (02:21):
Okay.
I am Julie Lynn.
Ashley, and I'm a grief coach,and so I work with grieving
people all over the country andnow internationally that's
happening a little bit, which isexciting.
Yeah.
Um, I'm mom to Landon and Kyle.
They're both college age andthen wife to my very best friend
Doug, um, for 28 years.
(02:42):
And Doug has been a pastor thatentire time, so pastor's wife on
top of all this
Kimber (02:48):
too.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Do you enjoy like the quote,traditional role of pastor's
wife, or do you like rebelagainst that a little bit?
Julie (02:56):
I've kind of charted my own path with that.
Yeah.
Um, and that's something that'sactually been really fun and I
have been, um, so grateful tohave congregations.
That, um, support that, cheerthat on.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and so yeah, I've charted myown path.
I'm, I'm not really, and youhear a lot of people say this, I
don't fit the mold, but I don'tthink anybody really does.
Kimber (03:19):
That's kind of the point of being an individual.
Right?
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Oh, that's cool.
And you mentioned that you werea grief coach?
Yes.
Yes.
Is that what you, how you likesay it to most people?
That is correct, yes.
Okay.
Will you tell us a little bitmore about just like, what that
involves for you?
Um, how you, I.
Kind of got into that realm,like, yeah.
(03:40):
What was your story with that?
Julie (03:43):
So when Doug took the pastor job here in Texas nine
years ago, when you move to anew town, you're looking for how
can I get involved in mycommunity?
Mm-hmm.
And make new friends.
And so I had an acquaintance atthe time say, Hey, Julie Lynn,
you should come and volunteer atthis hospice where I work.
Mm-hmm.
And I thought, well, I've neverdone that before, but it's a new
(04:03):
chapter, a new day, so why not?
Yeah.
And when I got there, Iimmediately, God drew my heart
toward the bereavement side ofhospice.
a chaplain that I met there toldme about some grad school
programs, um, so that I could bemore educated, um, on the, um,
academic side of grief.
Yeah, I had the empathy, but Iquickly realized that wasn't
(04:24):
gonna be enough.
Right.
Yeah.
Totally.
Um, for what I wanted to do.
And so, um, that began, uh, the,the challenge and the mm-hmm.
New journey of grad school whilemy kids were in high school and
I had sworn up and down, I wouldnever go back to school.
So, um, I, I challenge anyonelistening, um, that you just
never know when God might giveyou careful what you say.
(04:47):
Yeah, that's right.
Um, I, I had a bible studyleader once.
Say, you know what, Sarah gother biggest assignment when she
was 99, so, right, true.
So you never know when God mightdrop a big old assignment in
your lap.
And I loved learning.
Um, graduated, uh, with aMaster's of science in
Thanatology.
The, the Greek word for death isSantos.
(05:09):
Um, and so this is the study ofdeath, grief, and bereavement
from a lot of different angles.
And then I'm a member of theAssociation for Death Education
and Counseling for ongoingeducation in this field because
just like medicine, just liketeachers, I mean, the field's
changing all the time, and soyou wanna stay up with the
latest studies and, and all ofthat.
So, um, now I work with peopleonline, all over the country,
(05:31):
people here in my town, and nowpeople internationally working
with them one-on-one after adeath loss.
Um, and, and supporting themvery specifically, very
uniquely, um, in that way.
And it's been the journey of alifetime.
I feel very privileged to holdsome very sacred
Kimber (05:49):
stories.
I.
Hmm.
Yeah, man.
I bet.
Wow.
How do you feel like your heartdoes with like working with this
kind of thing, like on a dailybasis?
I just think that that would besuch a challenging thing because
even if you have a heart for it,I think, I mean, it's still
heavy.
I.
Yes, yes.
Julie (06:08):
Um, this element of self-care was really emphasized
very strongly in the work I didin the hospice industry and then
also in grad school.
They really, really emphasizedthe idea of self-care.
So some practical things that Ido is I do not schedule back to
back appointments.
And I'm also intentional aboutgoing out for a walk, um, after
(06:30):
an appointment.
Mm-hmm.
Or something that's not aNetflix flick binge.
This is something that's gonnaget endorphins going.
Um, and so knowing that this isa marathon, not a sprint, um,
and so that's some of theintentional self-care pieces.
Um, and God's given me such joymm-hmm.
In helping people.
(06:51):
Not the circumstances.
The circumstances areheartbreaking.
Right.
But the joy is in this wildjourney that I've been on.
Mm-hmm.
And getting to help.
That's the joy in it.
Yeah.
So,
Kimber (07:04):
wow.
I just think that's incrediblebecause It must be something
that God puts on the heart of anindividual and like equips you
for, because I don't know if Icould do it, you know?
So thank you for the work thatyou do.
I think it is really important,and
Julie (07:19):
I echo what you just said.
He absolutely equips you becausestanding in front of grad
school, I was like, there's noway I'm, I'm in the car line in
the afternoon.
Like, old people can't do thisright.
And I was, I was like, This wasso much fun to get to work
towards something that I knewwas gonna help people.
Yeah.
So you, again, you just neverknow what God might do.
(07:41):
Mm-hmm.
With this little seed that forme, he planted back when I was
in the sixth grade.
That's how far back I can tracethis.
Wow.
Kimber (07:48):
What do you trace to the sixth grade?
Like what is that seed you
Julie (07:51):
say?
I had to do a report, um, in thesixth grade, on a biography.
And I chose, um, the story ofAlex, the Life of a child.
It was, um, by Frank Deford, whowas a sports writer, and he
wrote about losing his six yearold daughter to cystic fibrosis.
Wow.
And as a sixth grader, I wascompletely captivated by this
(08:12):
story.
Wow.
The anticipatory grief.
He was experiencing the grieffor the family afterward, and
that's where, God, I can traceit back that far.
God planted a seed back then.
Wow.
Because what sixth grader wouldcare,
Kimber (08:25):
you know?
Right.
No sixth grader, just usually, Ifeel like you don't quite have
the capacity.
No.
Most kids, like I used to teachhigh school.
I don't know if you knew that.
And I worked with freshmenmostly and.
Like, yeah.
Just a lot of them.
It's just you're very, um,self-focused still.
Yes.
At that point, developmentally.
And so it's hard sometimes toenter into other people's grief.
(08:48):
Yes.
Yeah.
Julie (08:48):
So that's how far back I can trace it.
And obviously it took years andyears and years for God to
develop this, um, to this point.
But it, it makes me smile now tothink that Wow, like he had this
in mind for so many years.
Yeah.
Um, and now bringing it tofruition now has just been, um,
a joy in really difficultcircumstances.
Kimber (09:07):
Yeah.
That's incredible.
Well, we sort of got connected,like I was saying, after, I had
a conversation with, a friend ofmine, Sally Joe Cook.
And, uh, she had, um, a reallydifficult season in her life,
About five years ago or a littlemore now, six years ago, where
she lost her husband and hermother and her father, um,
(09:28):
within a couple years to cancer.
And, That conversation wasreally special to me personally,
'cause I was very close with herhusband as well.
And, just like the, thewillingness on her part to share
her heart with that was, uh,really honor, an honor to me.
Um, but you shared with me thatthat is, um, an, a conversation
(09:51):
that has, That has impacted youas well, or like resonated with
you.
And so I would just love to hearlike from your perspective as
like someone who worksprofessionally in this kind of
field, um, what was it like inthat episode that was, most
impactful for you?
Or what were you really like?
Yes, yes, yes.
(10:11):
You know, what was it that stoodout to you in that conversation?
So
Julie (10:15):
this is episode 46, so if you're just joining, um, into
the podcast, please, please goback and listen to that episode.
It is one of the best I've ever,ever heard, um, on grief.
Sally Jo was very real and veryraw.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and one of the things thatresonated the most with me, um,
was this very intimate momentthat she had with God in the
(10:38):
middle of what she was goingthrough, and that God
surprisingly asked Sally Jo togive in the middle of her grief,
and he had provided exactly whatshe needed to give.
Mm-hmm.
And there was this, the pancakemix, right?
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
The pancake mix.
(10:58):
Mm-hmm.
Um, and the joy for Sally Jo intaking the little, that she had,
the not enough that she had.
Mm-hmm.
And watching God multiply itlike the little boy with the
loaves and the fishes in theBible.
Mm-hmm.
the.
Incredible nature for Sally Joeof feeling like I am not a map
(11:18):
dot God sees me.
Mm-hmm.
He knows where I am and he knowsexactly what's happening to me
and he knows that this is what Ineed right now.
Mm-hmm.
Um, And I sat at my kitchentable.
I was the only one home at thetime, and I was saying Amen at
my kitchen table.
Mm-hmm.
I was just like blown away bythis story of, this very
(11:40):
intimate conversation betweenSally Jo and God, um, working it
out with this pancake mix.
Yeah.
And, and the miracle of that,that God would, see into this
situation and move so mightily,and the closeness.
Um, the intimacy.
Um, yeah.
And some in a place, sounexpected, you never expect in
the middle of grief to begiving, that's a time that you
(12:03):
would anticipate Right.
Receiv Yeah.
For people to be giving.
Exactly.
Hmm.
And so that was the part of thatinter, there were so many parts
of that interview that, thatstruck me, but that was the most
poignant for me.
I was like, wow, God sees me.
He sees right where you are andis gonna provide in amazing
ways.
Um, and so that's the part ofthat conversation that just
(12:25):
stays with me to this day.
Can't say enough
Kimber (12:27):
good things.
Yeah.
Mm.
I rem one of the things that's Iremember most, poignantly from
our conversation.
Was she her saying that like,the Holy Spirit is such a
careful counselor and like Yes,he cares for our heart so
carefully in these moments thatare tender and you know, full of
grief?
Yes.
And that was, is what you'redescribing there is like how he
(12:48):
is just such a careful counselorand takes such good care of us
in those moments.
And, I think it's especiallypowerful when you hear that from
someone who's like in the momentor has very recently been in
there.
Yes.
Because it's one thing to saythat, but it's another to really
live through it, I think.
Julie (13:06):
Yes, absolutely.
It, it's excellent.
Please go listen to it if youhaven't yet.
It's so,
Kimber (13:10):
so good.
Yeah, it was, it was wonderfulfor me.
man, I'm, I'm so thankful tolearn from you today, We have
been in, a series, this summercalled Being the Friend You
Need, and the series has beenall about how the things that
grow our relationship withJesus, how they actually grow
our friendships too, becausethey spill out.
And, uh, it's not so much aboutlike being a better friend, like
(13:34):
as in try harder, but how whenwe are pressing into Jesus, like
it's going to bless ourfriendships and, you know, one
of the areas of friendship thatwe can't ignore is this side of
grief, I think.
And you know, I don't think wethink a lot about it in our
friendships until we're in thatmoment and then suddenly it's
like, oh, like.
(13:55):
How do I interact with thepeople around me, my
relationships when my personallife feels so hard?
Um, and so this is somethingthat I wanna talk about today is
just how does grief impact ourfriendships, whether we're the
one in, the grief moment or ifour friend is going through that
and we're trying to love themwell through that, because I
(14:18):
think it's just a matter in partof.
Like talking about it beforewe're there and if we're already
there, like, you know, we canstill learn and grow from that
and we're probably never gonnabe totally prepared.
But I certainly don't think ithurts to learn about this before
we're in that moment.
And that's actually somethingthat Sally Joe talked about that
(14:39):
I remember as well was, youknow, build these deep
friendships before you sort ofneed them.
Yes.
And I think it's the same kindof idea with this is like, Build
up these, um, almost the musclesof being able to go there in
your friendships before you havenowhere else to go because
that's just where you're at.
(15:00):
Yes.
So you said that this idea oflike how grief impacts
friendship is something youactually end up talking about a
lot.
So where have you seen that comeup in your, with your clients
and in their experiences?
Julie (15:11):
Yes, I hear this.
I talk about this subject withclients all the time.
Mm-hmm.
One of my favorite quotes, and Ithink we'll have this in the
show notes, um mm-hmm.
And resources.
Um, it's a website called What'sYour Grief?
it's not a faith-based resource.
So I tell people, use your faithfilter when you're going through
it.
But, some excellent academic.
(15:32):
Things to be thinking aboutrelated to grief.
And one of my favorite quotes,this is written primarily by a
social worker, is, um, griefchanges your address book or in
modern day language that wouldbe grief changes your contact
list in your phone.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and so three main areas thatI hear this from clients, um,
the first one is that they madenew friends during their
(15:55):
grieving period because peopleshowed up unexpectedly.
That kind of came outta nowhere.
and so it's like this friendshipwas formed in a really difficult
time because this person cameoutta nowhere and showed up for
them and walked with them.
And so they were like, well, Iwasn't expecting this friendship
to be born during this time ofloss, but like, what a gift.
(16:18):
Yes.
Hmm.
So I hear that.
And then the other thing I hearfrom clients is, that grief, you
know, conversely, I had peoplethat I expected to show up for
me that were nowhere to befound.
And unfortunately sometimes thiscan happen, even with extended
family, um, extended family thathave said, I can't deal with
(16:38):
this right now, I'm out.
and how that's yet another lossfor a grieving person.
Right.
So, and then the other one thatI hear is I had friends that
stayed in it with me.
We were already friends and thisfriendship got even stronger
because we went through thisseason of grief.
and this, this really difficultwalk of grief together.
(17:00):
So those are some of the, theareas and things that I hear
from clients.
Um, and so it's just beeninteresting.
It's a facet that I think a lotof people don't necessarily
consider unless they've beenthrough it.
So,
Kimber (17:12):
right, totally.
What do you feel like are, doyou feel like there are
consistent things that we cansee where it's like, what
characterizes those friendshipsthat like, stay in it, as you
stay or stay with them throughit?
what do you hear as being or, orthink are some characteristics
of that we can, pursue that arefriends who stay in it, if you
(17:33):
will?
Julie (17:34):
So it's the, the notion of, and it's a hard concept for
us to grasp, I hadn't eventhought about this until I
worked in the hospice industry,is that this will absolutely
never be fixed in their life.
There will always be an emptychair at the table at
Thanksgiving.
Mm-hmm.
Um, there will always be,something this side of heaven
(17:55):
that's just not ever resolved.
Yeah.
And so, As a friend, if you'regoing into this, that's hard.
Yeah, it's very hard.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and so if you're going intothis as a friend with that
mentality that they're not gonnabe fine in a year, they're not.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Um, and that you are in thiswith them just like they are
(18:18):
mourning and they are grieving,you're gonna stay with them in
that and you're not gonna expectthem to be happy and jolly and
back the way things they arechanging.
As a person because of thisloss.
And so it's, staying with themthrough those changes.
And that can be really difficultbecause the way they were
(18:38):
before, is going to be differentas a result of this loss.
Kimber (18:42):
Right.
and then the other thing islike, you don't know what that
different is going to be reallyeither, because obviously
everyone handles grief and orwalks through it differently and
Right.
Like, we're already uniquepeople, so it's not even like
you can anticipate that really.
And so it sounds to me like it'sthis commitment of like, I
(19:04):
became friends with youinitially because, I maybe like,
liked your personality or wejust clicked or, you know,
whatever was the reason youbecame friends with someone.
But then it's like, if thatperson changes, would you have
become friends with the personthey are now?
Right.
Is.
may like a question not probablyworth talking about with them,
(19:25):
but like, just considering onyour own.
But then it's the, thecommitment of, okay, but I'm
gonna stay anyway.
Mm-hmm.
Because I'm committed to them asa person.
Which that is, that's sodifficult.
Like, that reminds me of kind ofthe challenge that we have in
marriage of like it being a.
Covenant like commitment versusjust something that you could
(19:47):
fall in or out of based on howyou feel about the person in a
given season.
Right, right.
But I think we don't think aboutour friendships often that same
way.
Maybe it's'cause I'm younger,like I have not had any like
lifetime friends yet becauselike, I moved a bunch when I was
in elementary school and so likeall of my friends have been
(20:07):
seasonal so far.
Mm-hmm.
Like the longest ones have beenfor, I have about.
10, 15 years of adult life undermy belt and, and like, so it's
just like I'm just beginning tolearn what it looks like to like
stick with a friend over.
Like a long time as they change.
Yes.
And so I think it's normal thatwe would, as people, especially
(20:29):
like, my, like I'm 30, so 30something.
So like people in kind of thatworld, like this is a muscle
we're learning is how to stickwith people even as they change.
Because probably up until thispoint they haven't changed a
ton.
Yes.
Depending on how long you'vebeen friends with them.
Right.
Um, so what do you feel like aresome of these like.
(20:50):
Changes that we might be able tokind of expect or like just be
open to that.
If we know our friend is walkingthrough grief, grief, that we
could kind of be aware are, arepossible, are there any that you
can identify?
Um,
Julie (21:04):
you can, some of the things that just in hearing and
seeing, um, in, in theexperiences that I've had is
that their personality maychange.
Mm-hmm.
Um, it, that could be permanent,that could be temporary.
I, I remember seeing a widowyears ago, and she was quite
introverted prior to the deathof her husband, and after he
passed this complete extrovertemerged.
(21:28):
Wow.
Um, almost to the point ofunrecognizable to a lot of
people.
And so it, it is, I love to usethe word when I'm talking with,
clients, is becoming.
Um, you are in the process ofbecoming, I mean, we all are.
but especially with someone whois grieving, they may take, I
mean, the personality maychange, things that they do may
(21:51):
change.
so it's just that willingnessto, like you said, hang with
them.
Yeah.
Um, as they are becoming, umRight.
And know that God has something.
For them in what they'rebecoming.
So this widow that I justmentioned, she went on to become
an incredible worship leader.
She had kind of been in hisshadow for a long time and, um,
(22:12):
she is still leading worship tothis day.
Um, and it's been incredible towatch this confidence that kind
of emerged Yeah.
That she may never have seencoming.
Yeah.
but how that has touched so manypeople and so many lives out of
a really difficult loss.
So Yeah.
It's, and it's different witheveryone.
Everyone is so unique with howthey grieve.
Kimber (22:33):
Hmm.
I have a friend who, um, is justa little bit younger than me
and, um, recently lost herhusband.
And so, you know, just like,especially becoming a widow so
young, I think, I mean it'sincredibly challenging any time,
but, You just really don't seeit coming.
I think the younger you areright and right.
(22:54):
people, she's told me thatpeople have expressed the
sentiment to her of when are wegonna get the old person back?
Right.
And, uh, it like that obviouslyis not.
A good thing to say.
No, that goes without saying.
but it, like, it grieves myheart to think about that for
(23:17):
her because, yes, she'sdifferent, but.
she's still wonderful, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And right.
So, you know, things like that.
It's like, I think they, theycome out of our mouths sometimes
and we probably realize, I hopewe realize afterwards that like,
that was not, you know, helpful.
but it's like, It's becausewe're noticing these changes,
(23:40):
right?
That you're talking about.
And so hopefully we can filterand not articulate that, but
when we feel that kind oftension to know that that's a
normal part of, very normal ofYes.
Like seeing your friend gothrough this is Yes.
Um, yeah, they're different andthat's, yeah.
But that's okay.
Yeah.
Julie (23:59):
Because God may have things for them to do right.
With these new elements, uh,that they're experiencing their
personality with.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I, I, like I said, withthis widow, I was like, she's
touched so many lives with herworship leading Right.
That's changed entirely fromwhere she was before.
And so God had something reallycool in the middle of all that,
out of a, a difficult spot.
(24:20):
So it is, it's, it's hangingwith people as they are
becoming, as it, it's like a, abutterfly.
I love that.
Right.
Yeah.
It's that word becoming, and I,I, I really hang with that with
my clients.
Kimber (24:31):
Yeah.
I love that.
Mm-hmm.
Man.
So what do you feel like, ismaybe one or two of these just
kind of like common mistakesthat you feel or that you see
friends making with.
People who are grieving, likethings that, you know, we don't
intend probably, but that justsome awareness could help us to
(24:52):
watch out for and just be awareof like, hey, that's not
helpful.
Um, yes or that's not going tohelp your friend heal.
Um, what are some things thatyou see coming out?
So, there's
Julie (25:01):
two things that I can think of.
Um, one of them is, to bring upthe person's name who died.
And that is so counterintuitiveto us.
another great resource.
I will send you the link tothis, that
Kimber (25:14):
we should do that.
Is
Julie (25:14):
that what you're saying?
We should bring up the name ofthe person that died, and that's
counterintuitive to us.
Mm-hmm.
It's, um, Nancy Guthrie, who isone of the co-hosts of Grief
Share, that's a nationwideprogram, grief support groups
that meet all over the country,faith-based, and, she has an.
Excellent video.
I'm gonna send you the link sothat you can put that in the
show notes.
I'll, yeah.
(25:35):
And the video is called WhatGrieving People Wish You Knew
about, what Really Helps andWhat really hurts.
Mm-hmm.
Good.
And she said, um, a lot ofpeople are afraid to bring up
the name of the person that diedbecause she says in her video,
well, what if I make them cry?
And I love how she breaks thisdown.
She said, it's not like theyforgot that their husband died
(25:57):
and you just reminded them.
They know.
Oh
Kimber (26:00):
yeah.
Right.
They're aware every minute.
Yeah.
Julie (26:03):
Yes.
But she said, when you bring itup, she said, grief is like this
computer back program running inthe background of their mind all
the time.
It never shuts off.
Mm-hmm.
And she said, when you bring upthat name, There's tears inside
that you allow them to release.
And that is a gift actually,even though for it feels
(26:23):
counterintuitive, like, oh no, Imade them cry.
You didn't make them cry.
Um, but you have had the courageto step in where very few people
will step.
Yeah.
And that is a power.
I get chills talking about it.
That is a powerful thing.
It's, it's a brave thing to doand it's so, so needed.
The second one, I think a commonmistake that we make is the
(26:44):
words, at least anything that isgonna come on the other side of
those two words is going to bebad.
Yeah, you, when you say atleast, and then you follow it up
with some phrase that isactually to make yourself more
comfortable in an uncomfortablesituation.
It's not really
Kimber (27:04):
for them.
Like you're trying to find thereason to not be as
uncomfortable, right?
Yeah.
Right.
Julie (27:09):
And so it's much.
In my, from everything I've seensitting in silence, sitting in
what I would callmetaphorically, a dissonant
musical chord, a chord that'snot resolved.
Mm.
Yeah.
Is, that's a powerful thing.
And so those are two commonmistakes that I see a lot is
using the words at least, or notbringing up the name of the
(27:31):
person that died.
Yeah.
Kimber (27:33):
I love how practical those are too.
'cause I feel like those arethings that I can remember and
then apply to the givensituation.
Yes.
You know the moment as.
You know, as applicable, butthat's, they're easy to
remember.
So yeah, I love that.
Um, just with that idea of, um,sitting in silence, I feel like
that is, like, it makes sense tome in theory.
(27:55):
And then there's that momentwhere I don't know like what,
what that looks like.
Is it literally like I can showup at someone's house and I
literally just sit there maybe.
Um, but what do you think?
How would you just define kindof.
this idea more broadly speakingof like being comfortable with
silence and kind of sitting withsomeone in grief.
(28:17):
One phrase that I hear like kindof thrown around a lot is the
idea of like, holding space formm-hmm.
Grief, right?
Like, so what do you feel likemore practically speaking those
kind of things can look like inour relationships, whether it's
like right after.
A moment, um, or down the roadeven like six months a year, you
(28:38):
know, what do you kind of seethis looking like?
Julie (28:41):
So when you go to the funeral, you normally get a
funeral program that has theperson who died their face on
the front of it, and then thedates that they were born and
the dates that they died.
Hmm.
Inside that program is anabsolute treasure trove of
follow up, very practicalfollow-up.
And here's what I mean by that.
Inside that program, you'regonna find the wedding
(29:01):
anniversary if they weremarried.
Inside that program, you'regonna find, obviously, you've
got the, the day that they wereborn, the day that they died.
All of those are absolutelyperfect days to follow up with a
grieving person.
Yeah.
So what I, I just did this athome not too long ago, is I'll
get those dates and put them inmy phone Yeah.
And say text so and so on thisday.
(29:24):
Mm-hmm.
Um, and it, it can be, you don'thave to use words.
Um, there was a, a grievingmother I was following up with,
um, on the day, uh, one yearlater that I knew she had lost
her son, and I just sent her aheart.
And she knew exactly what Imeant.
Right.
I didn't have to try and saysomething, beautiful or flowery
or try and fix anything.
(29:44):
It's just I see you.
I know that this day is tender.
And my hope is, and our hope,you know, obviously we're, we're
Christ ambassadors here.
This is the touch of this isJesus' hands.
Yeah.
On her on this day.
Mm-hmm.
It's like God sees you and heput you on my heart.
To reach out to you on this day.
(30:05):
Yeah, and you can do that fromthis little piece of paper that
you get at the funeral.
Take it with you.
Don't put it in the trash.
Plug those dates in your phone.
And, the return, the, responsehas been incredible.
Just from those little, like,wow, you remembered, because
sometimes, people in the familywill forget the day of the
(30:25):
anniversary.
Sometimes they'll forget thebirthday, but the fact that you
remembered it is a big deal,especially in friendships.
Mm-hmm.
I mean in all, all across theboard, but
Kimber (30:35):
especially in friendships.
Yeah, absolutely.
'cause they're already walkingthrough that day.
And so to enter into that, I cansee where that would be a way
that you could
Julie (30:45):
Yeah.
Enter into that.
Yeah.
It's powerful and it, it can beso simple.
I mean, it can be a text, it canbe a meal, it can be a lot of
different things.
But when it's very specific to aday that you know is gonna be
tender for them, it's, it's verypowerful.
Kimber (30:59):
Hmm.
That's so good.
What do you feel like is, Youknow, one or two things that we
you know, as friends, we don'tthink of, when our friends are
walking through grief, what dowe not realize that our friends
really need from us?
in these moments?
Moments.
So I think
Julie (31:17):
one of them is, um, grief is lonely.
Um, it's very lonely.
there God only made one of theperson that you lost.
Yeah.
And so there is a wide majorityof your circle that is not gonna
understand.
and so just that awareness, thatgrief is lonely.
And so if you're on the fenceabout whether or not to lean in,
(31:39):
go ahead and lean in.
Mm-hmm.
Because there's a highprobability that nobody else in
their circle has asked themabout their grief today.
Um, and so just that awarenessthat it can be very lonely and
very isolating, um, because mostpeople aren't gonna bring it up
at work.
They're not gonna stop by youroffice or stop by your
(31:59):
workstation and say, so how, youknow, they're, they're just not
gonna ask that because they'reafraid.
Right?
They're afraid of making youcry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So lean if you, if you're indoubt, lean in.
Kimber (32:10):
Yeah, especially like down the road, I feel like that
probably becomes less and lessright.
Because That's exactly right.
People move on with their livesand like forget things, you
know, when they're not right infront of them.
so I love that idea of likeputting the dates in our phones,
you know?
What do you feel like the furlike, so quote, the further you
(32:32):
get away from a moment of grief,um, what do you think is most
important for friends to beaware of?
Like the further our friend isaway from the mo, the initial
moment.
Um, how does that maybe change?
Or like what, what is somethingthat we should be aware of the
further away they are from it?
Yeah.
Julie (32:52):
The further away that they get from the grief, um, the
less relevant that their personthat they lost is to the world.
Hmm.
And so when you bring up astory, a memory, it's like for a
minute, they're back with themfor just a second.
Yeah.
Um, and so I've watched this,um, with clients be so healing
when they can hear from familymembers and friends like, Hey, I
(33:14):
remember a time that, you know,we laughed together doing this.
Or, we did this in a reallypractical way one year at our
blue Christmas service here atour church.
Um, you know, if the paperchains that you used to make as
kids.
Yeah.
Um, we wrote memories on thoseand then gave them to someone
who was grieving and theycreated these memory chains that
(33:35):
they could put on theirChristmas tree.
Oh, wow.
And so that's cool.
Um, that is just one reallysimple idea, of how to really,
link back to, the, therelevance.
That their person that they losthad on this earth, obviously
they're not here anymore.
And, that is really hard for agrieving person, who's trying to
(33:56):
go on, right.
with the person that they lostbeing less and less relevant as
time goes on.
And that's really hard.
So when you bring up a memory,when you bring up a story that
is such a big gift.
Yeah.
Kimber (34:08):
Wow.
I love that idea.
And I, I think that could beeven Something that you could do
as like a community, like, youknow, if you have like a friend
group or something that, allknew that person that you lost
or, or in a family even, to allkind of like, almost like get
together and do that.
Like, you know, write as many asyou can and then make the chain
(34:29):
together or something.
Yes.
That would be, that's reallycool.
Yes.
I love that.
Because you're celebrating theirlife then, not just Exactly.
Mourning the loss.
Yeah.
Julie (34:38):
Exactly.
We, it was, it was an amazingthing to watch widows walk out
of that service with this, youknow, they have the, the means
to make this chain of memoriesto put on their tree about the
person that they loved and lost.
And so it, it's a very specialthing to get to do that.
Yeah.
Kimber (34:54):
I love that.
Wow.
Um, Julie Lynn, would you saythat you primarily work with
people who have, who aregrieving because of a death that
they have lost?
Yeah, that
Julie (35:04):
is correct.
That's my training.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Kimber (35:06):
Yes.
Okay, gotcha.
Um, because I know that like, Alot of, uh, we experience grief
with like this, uh, preemptivesometimes, like the leading up
to, or even grief that weexperience in like other
circumstances in our lives.
Like, you know, friends who arewalking through fertility
challenges.
(35:27):
Yes.
Things like that.
but the finality, I suppose ofgrief that comes with a death,
Is probably changes.
How it impacts a person.
Because like, you know, I thinkof with, my friends walking
through infertility, that grief,I feel like it, it seems like
(35:49):
there's potentially a horizon onthe other side.
Mm-hmm.
Right, right.
And, but how do you feel like,it changes the grief when there
is like the the finality aspectof it and it's like there's
nothing like you said that will.
make this part better, right.
Or like, change this outcome.
Um, how do you feel like thatchanges the grieving process
(36:11):
itself?
Julie (36:13):
There's this deep yearning that can't be fixed or
met or mm-hmm.
Um, and that's the, thefrustrating part for a grieving
person is right.
Um, this, I, I wish they werehere for this.
I wish that I could talk withthem about this challenging
situation.
And we always used to talk aboutthis, and now they're gone.
Yeah.
Um, and so that's the, the part,that in terms of working this
(36:37):
through with clients is sochallenging because there is
this side of heaven, there's apermanence to it.
Right?
Um, so, and that's, that's thepart that, and again, um, I
think that's why people are sointimidated to bring it up
because there's nothing they cando.
To bring the person back, to fixit, to, to, um, restore.
(36:57):
And so that's, I think why we'reso intimidated to bring it up
and talk about it.
Kimber (37:02):
Yeah.
I think that that's true.
That at least resonates for me.
Mm-hmm.
I, um, am such a fixer.
And so I feel like, um, as we'vebeen, Leaning in on the podcast
over the last like year or sointo talking about grief more
is, I think that it's been suchlike a good learning experience
for me in, um, there are justthings in our friendships that
(37:26):
they're not gonna get, theydon't get fixed.
Right.
Like, they just don't.
And that's part of, I think justbeing an adult with like grownup
problems And that is reallyhard.
but I think that it can actuallybe good because it forces us not
to rely just on like goodcircumstances in our
friendships, but rather to relyon the Lord and like actual
(37:49):
authentic love for our people.
Yes.
Not just like, easycircumstances because Right.
Easy circumstances make easyfriendships, but they don't
necessarily make like deep,authentic friendships.
Exactly.
I think
Julie (38:02):
situations when you walk through, um, a grief with
someone, there's this depth,there's this richness that forms
in, in the relationship that youmight not have had if you hadn't
walked through this really darkvalley.
Kimber (38:15):
Mm.
Wow, man.
Well, I love to kind of wrap upthe podcast, with just some
encouragement to kind of sendour people off, and we've talked
a lot from this focus todayabout, How to be like a good
friend to someone who is walkingthrough grief.
but I think for our finalencouragement, I would love to
hear, um, just kind of yourheart towards someone who is in
(38:39):
that grief moment.
And so for a friend listening,if If she is the one who is
walking through grief, whetherit's newer or like you said,
like this doesn't go away.
Like, you know, maybe this isyears ago, but it's still like a
part of your heart.
and she feels like it impactsher friendships.
Um, and it's like maybe shedoesn't have a lot to give in
(39:00):
this moment, or friendships feelstrained, or a challenge.
because of her grief, What doyou feel like you would say to
her in that moment to encourageher heart?
I.
So
Julie (39:12):
to the person that's grieving, especially one that,
where it's been very recentmm-hmm.
Um, I would tell that grievingperson, um, that you are doing
things, that are very difficultthat the rest of us take for
granted.
And what I mean by that isgetting up out of bed, getting
showered.
Paying the bills and going towork.
We take that for granted.
(39:33):
We get up and just do thatrotely.
But for you, it's really, reallyhard work right now.
Hmm.
And so it's okay to stop and bekind and gentle with yourself
and celebrate the fact that youdid those things today that
we're really, really difficultto do.
Hmm.
Um, and.
In the middle of what you'rewalking through.
(39:54):
Um, don't be surprised.
if God, who is the God ofmiracles, the God of unexpected
mm-hmm.
The God of the extraordinarymight ask you to give.
In the middle of, a dry season.
And you will know if thathappens, that he's the one that
did it, and that he sees youjust like you did with Sally
(40:14):
Joe.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and you will know that heloves you and he sees you, um,
and he has not forgotten you.
Um, so those are the things Iwould say, um, to someone that
is, especially someone that'sjust been through a loss, Is
that, you are loved and you'redoing the extraordinary.
Kimber (40:32):
Yeah.
Hmm.
I love that.
Well, Julie Lynn, thank you somuch for just spending time with
us today and just sharing someof your, um, wisdom and
experience with this it's notsomething that we just know how
to do automatically, and so Ithink it's like so good to give
ourselves grace, um, and also toseek that, you know, that growth
(40:55):
and truth and how we can, Lovebetter because think that our
friends really, really need thatfrom us, especially in those
moments.
So thank you so much for sharingwith us today.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Julie (41:08):
Bye bye-Bye.
Kimber (41:13):
Friends.
I'm so glad you could join meand Julie on the show this week.
Grief can seem like such a hardspace to enter into with our
people, but it's truly one ofthe areas we most need our
community in.
If you would like more supportfrom Julie Lynn, I encourage you
to visit her websites.
Julie Lynn, ashley.com.
And it's in the episodedescription.
(41:33):
And in there you can learn moreabout the services that she
provides.
She has tons of vetted resourcesavailable as well.
And you can also find her onInstagram At Julie Lynn, Ashley.
Well friends, here's where therubber meets the road.
As we seek to lead the way bybeing the friend, we know we all
need in our lives.
I pray that you would find waysto enter into a friend's grief
(41:55):
this week in either a small or abig way.
And if this conversation blessedyou, would you share it with a
friend this week?
Taking these conversationsbeyond the podcast player is my
greatest desire with thisseries.
And so I hope that this can actas like a springboard for some
good talks as you go about yourweek.
Also make sure you've subscribedto the podcast wherever you
(42:15):
listen.
So you don't miss an episode.
And you can also sign up to bepart of my newsletter crews so
that you get a weekly previewdirectly to your email inbox of
what will be on the podcast thatweek.
Just visit your sisterkimber.com and subscribe there.
Friends.
Thank you so much for spendingpart of your tea with us until
next time.
It's your sister Kimber.
Hey friends.
Welcome to the, your sisterKimber podcast.
My name is Kimberly Gilbert, andI'm so glad that you're here
today.
It's possibly one of the thingsfor this, from our minds when
walking through grief, but theseseasons of life do impact our
friendships.
Whether we're the ones walkingthrough grief and struggling to
know how to handle ourfriendships through that time.
Or if we're the friend trying towalk well alongside a grieving
(00:33):
friend, such an impactful timein life will naturally have
ripple effects into ourfriendships.
And so today we get to talk withgrief coach, Julie Lynn, Ashley,
and Julie Lynn has worked andvolunteered in the hospice
industry for years.
And there developed a God givenpassion to support grieving
people.
She now has her own griefsupport ministry, both in-person
(00:54):
and online, where she works withpeople one-on-one who needs
support following a death loss.
I pray our conversation todaygives you practical ideas to
love your friends well throughthis season.
And if you're walking throughgrief right now, yourself, That
it gives you hope and directionfor how you can relate to your
friends during this time.
I wish that we could have thistalk over coffee across the
(01:16):
table, but this is the next bestthing.
I'm so glad that you're here,friend.
Let's get started.
Hi, Julie Lynn.
Hello.
Hello,
Julie (01:29):
hello.
Thank you so much for having me,Kimber.
I'm excited to have thisconversation today.
Kimber (01:34):
Yeah, man, I am too.
Uh, we got connected a, a whileago through some kind of crazy,
different connections that Iactually don't still fully
understand.
But, man, you've been such ablessing to our community here
and I'm so excited to talk withyou today.
Um, we're not talking about a.
Topic that is super easy.
We're talking about grief today,but man, I think it's so, so
(01:56):
important and, I know that it'sa big part of your work and so
I'm really excited to learn morefrom you today.
Julie (02:03):
Yes.
I'm excited to talk about, eventhough it's a hard subject.
Yeah.
There's, um, a place for us towalk with grieving people and
then to get to talk withgrieving people directly.
So I'm excited for all thefacets of this conversation.
Kimber (02:17):
Cool.
Well, why don't you go ahead andintroduce yourself to our
friends listening who may notknow who you are.
Julie (02:21):
Okay.
I am Julie Lynn.
Ashley, and I'm a grief coach,and so I work with grieving
people all over the country andnow internationally that's
happening a little bit, which isexciting.
Yeah.
Um, I'm mom to Landon and Kyle.
They're both college age andthen wife to my very best friend
Doug, um, for 28 years.
(02:42):
And Doug has been a pastor thatentire time, so pastor's wife on
top of all this
Kimber (02:48):
too.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Do you enjoy like the quote,traditional role of pastor's
wife, or do you like rebelagainst that a little bit?
Julie (02:56):
I've kind of charted my own path with that.
Yeah.
Um, and that's something that'sactually been really fun and I
have been, um, so grateful tohave congregations.
That, um, support that, cheerthat on.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and so yeah, I've charted myown path.
I'm, I'm not really, and youhear a lot of people say this, I
don't fit the mold, but I don'tthink anybody really does.
Kimber (03:19):
That's kind of the point of being an individual.
Right?
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Oh, that's cool.
And you mentioned that you werea grief coach?
Yes.
Yes.
Is that what you, how you likesay it to most people?
That is correct, yes.
Okay.
Will you tell us a little bitmore about just like, what that
involves for you?
Um, how you, I.
Kind of got into that realm,like, yeah.
(03:40):
What was your story with that?
Julie (03:43):
So when Doug took the pastor job here in Texas nine
years ago, when you move to anew town, you're looking for how
can I get involved in mycommunity?
Mm-hmm.
And make new friends.
And so I had an acquaintance atthe time say, Hey, Julie Lynn,
you should come and volunteer atthis hospice where I work.
Mm-hmm.
And I thought, well, I've neverdone that before, but it's a new
(04:03):
chapter, a new day, so why not?
Yeah.
And when I got there, Iimmediately, God drew my heart
toward the bereavement side ofhospice.
a chaplain that I met there toldme about some grad school
programs, um, so that I could bemore educated, um, on the, um,
academic side of grief.
Yeah, I had the empathy, but Iquickly realized that wasn't
(04:24):
gonna be enough.
Right.
Yeah.
Totally.
Um, for what I wanted to do.
And so, um, that began, uh, the,the challenge and the mm-hmm.
New journey of grad school whilemy kids were in high school and
I had sworn up and down, I wouldnever go back to school.
So, um, I, I challenge anyonelistening, um, that you just
never know when God might giveyou careful what you say.
(04:47):
Yeah, that's right.
Um, I, I had a bible studyleader once.
Say, you know what, Sarah gother biggest assignment when she
was 99, so, right, true.
So you never know when God mightdrop a big old assignment in
your lap.
And I loved learning.
Um, graduated, uh, with aMaster's of science in
Thanatology.
The, the Greek word for death isSantos.
(05:09):
Um, and so this is the study ofdeath, grief, and bereavement
from a lot of different angles.
And then I'm a member of theAssociation for Death Education
and Counseling for ongoingeducation in this field because
just like medicine, just liketeachers, I mean, the field's
changing all the time, and soyou wanna stay up with the
latest studies and, and all ofthat.
So, um, now I work with peopleonline, all over the country,
(05:31):
people here in my town, and nowpeople internationally working
with them one-on-one after adeath loss.
Um, and, and supporting themvery specifically, very
uniquely, um, in that way.
And it's been the journey of alifetime.
I feel very privileged to holdsome very sacred
Kimber (05:49):
stories.
I.
Hmm.
Yeah, man.
I bet.
Wow.
How do you feel like your heartdoes with like working with this
kind of thing, like on a dailybasis?
I just think that that would besuch a challenging thing because
even if you have a heart for it,I think, I mean, it's still
heavy.
I.
Yes, yes.
Julie (06:08):
Um, this element of self-care was really emphasized
very strongly in the work I didin the hospice industry and then
also in grad school.
They really, really emphasizedthe idea of self-care.
So some practical things that Ido is I do not schedule back to
back appointments.
And I'm also intentional aboutgoing out for a walk, um, after
(06:30):
an appointment.
Mm-hmm.
Or something that's not aNetflix flick binge.
This is something that's gonnaget endorphins going.
Um, and so knowing that this isa marathon, not a sprint, um,
and so that's some of theintentional self-care pieces.
Um, and God's given me such joymm-hmm.
In helping people.
(06:51):
Not the circumstances.
The circumstances areheartbreaking.
Right.
But the joy is in this wildjourney that I've been on.
Mm-hmm.
And getting to help.
That's the joy in it.
Yeah.
So,
Kimber (07:04):
wow.
I just think that's incrediblebecause It must be something
that God puts on the heart of anindividual and like equips you
for, because I don't know if Icould do it, you know?
So thank you for the work thatyou do.
I think it is really important,and
Julie (07:19):
I echo what you just said.
He absolutely equips you becausestanding in front of grad
school, I was like, there's noway I'm, I'm in the car line in
the afternoon.
Like, old people can't do thisright.
And I was, I was like, This wasso much fun to get to work
towards something that I knewwas gonna help people.
Yeah.
So you, again, you just neverknow what God might do.
(07:41):
Mm-hmm.
With this little seed that forme, he planted back when I was
in the sixth grade.
That's how far back I can tracethis.
Wow.
Kimber (07:48):
What do you trace to the sixth grade?
Like what is that seed you
Julie (07:51):
say?
I had to do a report, um, in thesixth grade, on a biography.
And I chose, um, the story ofAlex, the Life of a child.
It was, um, by Frank Deford, whowas a sports writer, and he
wrote about losing his six yearold daughter to cystic fibrosis.
Wow.
And as a sixth grader, I wascompletely captivated by this
(08:12):
story.
Wow.
The anticipatory grief.
He was experiencing the grieffor the family afterward, and
that's where, God, I can traceit back that far.
God planted a seed back then.
Wow.
Because what sixth grader wouldcare,
Kimber (08:25):
you know?
Right.
No sixth grader, just usually, Ifeel like you don't quite have
the capacity.
No.
Most kids, like I used to teachhigh school.
I don't know if you knew that.
And I worked with freshmenmostly and.
Like, yeah.
Just a lot of them.
It's just you're very, um,self-focused still.
Yes.
At that point, developmentally.
And so it's hard sometimes toenter into other people's grief.
(08:48):
Yes.
Yeah.
Julie (08:48):
So that's how far back I can trace it.
And obviously it took years andyears and years for God to
develop this, um, to this point.
But it, it makes me smile now tothink that Wow, like he had this
in mind for so many years.
Yeah.
Um, and now bringing it tofruition now has just been, um,
a joy in really difficultcircumstances.
Kimber (09:07):
Yeah.
That's incredible.
Well, we sort of got connected,like I was saying, after, I had
a conversation with, a friend ofmine, Sally Joe Cook.
And, uh, she had, um, a reallydifficult season in her life,
About five years ago or a littlemore now, six years ago, where
she lost her husband and hermother and her father, um,
(09:28):
within a couple years to cancer.
And, That conversation wasreally special to me personally,
'cause I was very close with herhusband as well.
And, just like the, thewillingness on her part to share
her heart with that was, uh,really honor, an honor to me.
Um, but you shared with me thatthat is, um, an, a conversation
(09:51):
that has, That has impacted youas well, or like resonated with
you.
And so I would just love to hearlike from your perspective as
like someone who worksprofessionally in this kind of
field, um, what was it like inthat episode that was, most
impactful for you?
Or what were you really like?
Yes, yes, yes.
(10:11):
You know, what was it that stoodout to you in that conversation?
So
Julie (10:15):
this is episode 46, so if you're just joining, um, into
the podcast, please, please goback and listen to that episode.
It is one of the best I've ever,ever heard, um, on grief.
Sally Jo was very real and veryraw.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and one of the things thatresonated the most with me, um,
was this very intimate momentthat she had with God in the
(10:38):
middle of what she was goingthrough, and that God
surprisingly asked Sally Jo togive in the middle of her grief,
and he had provided exactly whatshe needed to give.
Mm-hmm.
And there was this, the pancakemix, right?
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
The pancake mix.
(10:58):
Mm-hmm.
Um, and the joy for Sally Jo intaking the little, that she had,
the not enough that she had.
Mm-hmm.
And watching God multiply itlike the little boy with the
loaves and the fishes in theBible.
Mm-hmm.
the.
Incredible nature for Sally Joeof feeling like I am not a map
(11:18):
dot God sees me.
Mm-hmm.
He knows where I am and he knowsexactly what's happening to me
and he knows that this is what Ineed right now.
Mm-hmm.
Um, And I sat at my kitchentable.
I was the only one home at thetime, and I was saying Amen at
my kitchen table.
Mm-hmm.
I was just like blown away bythis story of, this very
(11:40):
intimate conversation betweenSally Jo and God, um, working it
out with this pancake mix.
Yeah.
And, and the miracle of that,that God would, see into this
situation and move so mightily,and the closeness.
Um, the intimacy.
Um, yeah.
And some in a place, sounexpected, you never expect in
the middle of grief to begiving, that's a time that you
(12:03):
would anticipate Right.
Receiv Yeah.
For people to be giving.
Exactly.
Hmm.
And so that was the part of thatinter, there were so many parts
of that interview that, thatstruck me, but that was the most
poignant for me.
I was like, wow, God sees me.
He sees right where you are andis gonna provide in amazing
ways.
Um, and so that's the part ofthat conversation that just
(12:25):
stays with me to this day.
Can't say enough
Kimber (12:27):
good things.
Yeah.
Mm.
I rem one of the things that's Iremember most, poignantly from
our conversation.
Was she her saying that like,the Holy Spirit is such a
careful counselor and like Yes,he cares for our heart so
carefully in these moments thatare tender and you know, full of
grief?
Yes.
And that was, is what you'redescribing there is like how he
(12:48):
is just such a careful counselorand takes such good care of us
in those moments.
And, I think it's especiallypowerful when you hear that from
someone who's like in the momentor has very recently been in
there.
Yes.
Because it's one thing to saythat, but it's another to really
live through it, I think.
Julie (13:06):
Yes, absolutely.
It, it's excellent.
Please go listen to it if youhaven't yet.
It's so,
Kimber (13:10):
so good.
Yeah, it was, it was wonderfulfor me.
man, I'm, I'm so thankful tolearn from you today, We have
been in, a series, this summercalled Being the Friend You
Need, and the series has beenall about how the things that
grow our relationship withJesus, how they actually grow
our friendships too, becausethey spill out.
And, uh, it's not so much aboutlike being a better friend, like
(13:34):
as in try harder, but how whenwe are pressing into Jesus, like
it's going to bless ourfriendships and, you know, one
of the areas of friendship thatwe can't ignore is this side of
grief, I think.
And you know, I don't think wethink a lot about it in our
friendships until we're in thatmoment and then suddenly it's
like, oh, like.
(13:55):
How do I interact with thepeople around me, my
relationships when my personallife feels so hard?
Um, and so this is somethingthat I wanna talk about today is
just how does grief impact ourfriendships, whether we're the
one in, the grief moment or ifour friend is going through that
and we're trying to love themwell through that, because I
(14:18):
think it's just a matter in partof.
Like talking about it beforewe're there and if we're already
there, like, you know, we canstill learn and grow from that
and we're probably never gonnabe totally prepared.
But I certainly don't think ithurts to learn about this before
we're in that moment.
And that's actually somethingthat Sally Joe talked about that
(14:39):
I remember as well was, youknow, build these deep
friendships before you sort ofneed them.
Yes.
And I think it's the same kindof idea with this is like, Build
up these, um, almost the musclesof being able to go there in
your friendships before you havenowhere else to go because
that's just where you're at.
(15:00):
Yes.
So you said that this idea oflike how grief impacts
friendship is something youactually end up talking about a
lot.
So where have you seen that comeup in your, with your clients
and in their experiences?
Julie (15:11):
Yes, I hear this.
I talk about this subject withclients all the time.
Mm-hmm.
One of my favorite quotes, and Ithink we'll have this in the
show notes, um mm-hmm.
And resources.
Um, it's a website called What'sYour Grief?
it's not a faith-based resource.
So I tell people, use your faithfilter when you're going through
it.
But, some excellent academic.
(15:32):
Things to be thinking aboutrelated to grief.
And one of my favorite quotes,this is written primarily by a
social worker, is, um, griefchanges your address book or in
modern day language that wouldbe grief changes your contact
list in your phone.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and so three main areas thatI hear this from clients, um,
the first one is that they madenew friends during their
(15:55):
grieving period because peopleshowed up unexpectedly.
That kind of came outta nowhere.
and so it's like this friendshipwas formed in a really difficult
time because this person cameoutta nowhere and showed up for
them and walked with them.
And so they were like, well, Iwasn't expecting this friendship
to be born during this time ofloss, but like, what a gift.
(16:18):
Yes.
Hmm.
So I hear that.
And then the other thing I hearfrom clients is, that grief, you
know, conversely, I had peoplethat I expected to show up for
me that were nowhere to befound.
And unfortunately sometimes thiscan happen, even with extended
family, um, extended family thathave said, I can't deal with
(16:38):
this right now, I'm out.
and how that's yet another lossfor a grieving person.
Right.
So, and then the other one thatI hear is I had friends that
stayed in it with me.
We were already friends and thisfriendship got even stronger
because we went through thisseason of grief.
and this, this really difficultwalk of grief together.
(17:00):
So those are some of the, theareas and things that I hear
from clients.
Um, and so it's just beeninteresting.
It's a facet that I think a lotof people don't necessarily
consider unless they've beenthrough it.
So,
Kimber (17:12):
right, totally.
What do you feel like are, doyou feel like there are
consistent things that we cansee where it's like, what
characterizes those friendshipsthat like, stay in it, as you
stay or stay with them throughit?
what do you hear as being or, orthink are some characteristics
of that we can, pursue that arefriends who stay in it, if you
(17:33):
will?
Julie (17:34):
So it's the, the notion of, and it's a hard concept for
us to grasp, I hadn't eventhought about this until I
worked in the hospice industry,is that this will absolutely
never be fixed in their life.
There will always be an emptychair at the table at
Thanksgiving.
Mm-hmm.
Um, there will always be,something this side of heaven
(17:55):
that's just not ever resolved.
Yeah.
And so, As a friend, if you'regoing into this, that's hard.
Yeah, it's very hard.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and so if you're going intothis as a friend with that
mentality that they're not gonnabe fine in a year, they're not.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Um, and that you are in thiswith them just like they are
(18:18):
mourning and they are grieving,you're gonna stay with them in
that and you're not gonna expectthem to be happy and jolly and
back the way things they arechanging.
As a person because of thisloss.
And so it's, staying with themthrough those changes.
And that can be really difficultbecause the way they were
(18:38):
before, is going to be differentas a result of this loss.
Kimber (18:42):
Right.
and then the other thing islike, you don't know what that
different is going to be reallyeither, because obviously
everyone handles grief and orwalks through it differently and
Right.
Like, we're already uniquepeople, so it's not even like
you can anticipate that really.
And so it sounds to me like it'sthis commitment of like, I
(19:04):
became friends with youinitially because, I maybe like,
liked your personality or wejust clicked or, you know,
whatever was the reason youbecame friends with someone.
But then it's like, if thatperson changes, would you have
become friends with the personthey are now?
Right.
Is.
may like a question not probablyworth talking about with them,
(19:25):
but like, just considering onyour own.
But then it's the, thecommitment of, okay, but I'm
gonna stay anyway.
Mm-hmm.
Because I'm committed to them asa person.
Which that is, that's sodifficult.
Like, that reminds me of kind ofthe challenge that we have in
marriage of like it being a.
Covenant like commitment versusjust something that you could
(19:47):
fall in or out of based on howyou feel about the person in a
given season.
Right, right.
But I think we don't think aboutour friendships often that same
way.
Maybe it's'cause I'm younger,like I have not had any like
lifetime friends yet becauselike, I moved a bunch when I was
in elementary school and so likeall of my friends have been
(20:07):
seasonal so far.
Mm-hmm.
Like the longest ones have beenfor, I have about.
10, 15 years of adult life undermy belt and, and like, so it's
just like I'm just beginning tolearn what it looks like to like
stick with a friend over.
Like a long time as they change.
Yes.
And so I think it's normal thatwe would, as people, especially
(20:29):
like, my, like I'm 30, so 30something.
So like people in kind of thatworld, like this is a muscle
we're learning is how to stickwith people even as they change.
Because probably up until thispoint they haven't changed a
ton.
Yes.
Depending on how long you'vebeen friends with them.
Right.
Um, so what do you feel like aresome of these like.
(20:50):
Changes that we might be able tokind of expect or like just be
open to that.
If we know our friend is walkingthrough grief, grief, that we
could kind of be aware are, arepossible, are there any that you
can identify?
Um,
Julie (21:04):
you can, some of the things that just in hearing and
seeing, um, in, in theexperiences that I've had is
that their personality maychange.
Mm-hmm.
Um, it, that could be permanent,that could be temporary.
I, I remember seeing a widowyears ago, and she was quite
introverted prior to the deathof her husband, and after he
passed this complete extrovertemerged.
(21:28):
Wow.
Um, almost to the point ofunrecognizable to a lot of
people.
And so it, it is, I love to usethe word when I'm talking with,
clients, is becoming.
Um, you are in the process ofbecoming, I mean, we all are.
but especially with someone whois grieving, they may take, I
mean, the personality maychange, things that they do may
(21:51):
change.
so it's just that willingnessto, like you said, hang with
them.
Yeah.
Um, as they are becoming, umRight.
And know that God has something.
For them in what they'rebecoming.
So this widow that I justmentioned, she went on to become
an incredible worship leader.
She had kind of been in hisshadow for a long time and, um,
(22:12):
she is still leading worship tothis day.
Um, and it's been incredible towatch this confidence that kind
of emerged Yeah.
That she may never have seencoming.
Yeah.
but how that has touched so manypeople and so many lives out of
a really difficult loss.
So Yeah.
It's, and it's different witheveryone.
Everyone is so unique with howthey grieve.
Kimber (22:33):
Hmm.
I have a friend who, um, is justa little bit younger than me
and, um, recently lost herhusband.
And so, you know, just like,especially becoming a widow so
young, I think, I mean it'sincredibly challenging any time,
but, You just really don't seeit coming.
I think the younger you areright and right.
(22:54):
people, she's told me thatpeople have expressed the
sentiment to her of when are wegonna get the old person back?
Right.
And, uh, it like that obviouslyis not.
A good thing to say.
No, that goes without saying.
but it, like, it grieves myheart to think about that for
(23:17):
her because, yes, she'sdifferent, but.
she's still wonderful, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And right.
So, you know, things like that.
It's like, I think they, theycome out of our mouths sometimes
and we probably realize, I hopewe realize afterwards that like,
that was not, you know, helpful.
but it's like, It's becausewe're noticing these changes,
(23:40):
right?
That you're talking about.
And so hopefully we can filterand not articulate that, but
when we feel that kind oftension to know that that's a
normal part of, very normal ofYes.
Like seeing your friend gothrough this is Yes.
Um, yeah, they're different andthat's, yeah.
But that's okay.
Yeah.
Julie (23:59):
Because God may have things for them to do right.
With these new elements, uh,that they're experiencing their
personality with.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I, I, like I said, withthis widow, I was like, she's
touched so many lives with herworship leading Right.
That's changed entirely fromwhere she was before.
And so God had something reallycool in the middle of all that,
out of a, a difficult spot.
(24:20):
So it is, it's, it's hangingwith people as they are
becoming, as it, it's like a, abutterfly.
I love that.
Right.
Yeah.
It's that word becoming, and I,I, I really hang with that with
my clients.
Kimber (24:31):
Yeah.
I love that.
Mm-hmm.
Man.
So what do you feel like, ismaybe one or two of these just
kind of like common mistakesthat you feel or that you see
friends making with.
People who are grieving, likethings that, you know, we don't
intend probably, but that justsome awareness could help us to
(24:52):
watch out for and just be awareof like, hey, that's not
helpful.
Um, yes or that's not going tohelp your friend heal.
Um, what are some things thatyou see coming out?
So, there's
Julie (25:01):
two things that I can think of.
Um, one of them is, to bring upthe person's name who died.
And that is so counterintuitiveto us.
another great resource.
I will send you the link tothis, that
Kimber (25:14):
we should do that.
Is
Julie (25:14):
that what you're saying?
We should bring up the name ofthe person that died, and that's
counterintuitive to us.
Mm-hmm.
It's, um, Nancy Guthrie, who isone of the co-hosts of Grief
Share, that's a nationwideprogram, grief support groups
that meet all over the country,faith-based, and, she has an.
Excellent video.
I'm gonna send you the link sothat you can put that in the
show notes.
I'll, yeah.
(25:35):
And the video is called WhatGrieving People Wish You Knew
about, what Really Helps andWhat really hurts.
Mm-hmm.
Good.
And she said, um, a lot ofpeople are afraid to bring up
the name of the person that diedbecause she says in her video,
well, what if I make them cry?
And I love how she breaks thisdown.
She said, it's not like theyforgot that their husband died
(25:57):
and you just reminded them.
They know.
Oh
Kimber (26:00):
yeah.
Right.
They're aware every minute.
Yeah.
Julie (26:03):
Yes.
But she said, when you bring itup, she said, grief is like this
computer back program running inthe background of their mind all
the time.
It never shuts off.
Mm-hmm.
And she said, when you bring upthat name, There's tears inside
that you allow them to release.
And that is a gift actually,even though for it feels
(26:23):
counterintuitive, like, oh no, Imade them cry.
You didn't make them cry.
Um, but you have had the courageto step in where very few people
will step.
Yeah.
And that is a power.
I get chills talking about it.
That is a powerful thing.
It's, it's a brave thing to doand it's so, so needed.
The second one, I think a commonmistake that we make is the
(26:44):
words, at least anything that isgonna come on the other side of
those two words is going to bebad.
Yeah, you, when you say atleast, and then you follow it up
with some phrase that isactually to make yourself more
comfortable in an uncomfortablesituation.
It's not really
Kimber (27:04):
for them.
Like you're trying to find thereason to not be as
uncomfortable, right?
Yeah.
Right.
Julie (27:09):
And so it's much.
In my, from everything I've seensitting in silence, sitting in
what I would callmetaphorically, a dissonant
musical chord, a chord that'snot resolved.
Mm.
Yeah.
Is, that's a powerful thing.
And so those are two commonmistakes that I see a lot is
using the words at least, or notbringing up the name of the
(27:31):
person that died.
Yeah.
Kimber (27:33):
I love how practical those are too.
'cause I feel like those arethings that I can remember and
then apply to the givensituation.
Yes.
You know the moment as.
You know, as applicable, butthat's, they're easy to
remember.
So yeah, I love that.
Um, just with that idea of, um,sitting in silence, I feel like
that is, like, it makes sense tome in theory.
(27:55):
And then there's that momentwhere I don't know like what,
what that looks like.
Is it literally like I can showup at someone's house and I
literally just sit there maybe.
Um, but what do you think?
How would you just define kindof.
this idea more broadly speakingof like being comfortable with
silence and kind of sitting withsomeone in grief.
(28:17):
One phrase that I hear like kindof thrown around a lot is the
idea of like, holding space formm-hmm.
Grief, right?
Like, so what do you feel likemore practically speaking those
kind of things can look like inour relationships, whether it's
like right after.
A moment, um, or down the roadeven like six months a year, you
(28:38):
know, what do you kind of seethis looking like?
Julie (28:41):
So when you go to the funeral, you normally get a
funeral program that has theperson who died their face on
the front of it, and then thedates that they were born and
the dates that they died.
Hmm.
Inside that program is anabsolute treasure trove of
follow up, very practicalfollow-up.
And here's what I mean by that.
Inside that program, you'regonna find the wedding
(29:01):
anniversary if they weremarried.
Inside that program, you'regonna find, obviously, you've
got the, the day that they wereborn, the day that they died.
All of those are absolutelyperfect days to follow up with a
grieving person.
Yeah.
So what I, I just did this athome not too long ago, is I'll
get those dates and put them inmy phone Yeah.
And say text so and so on thisday.
(29:24):
Mm-hmm.
Um, and it, it can be, you don'thave to use words.
Um, there was a, a grievingmother I was following up with,
um, on the day, uh, one yearlater that I knew she had lost
her son, and I just sent her aheart.
And she knew exactly what Imeant.
Right.
I didn't have to try and saysomething, beautiful or flowery
or try and fix anything.
(29:44):
It's just I see you.
I know that this day is tender.
And my hope is, and our hope,you know, obviously we're, we're
Christ ambassadors here.
This is the touch of this isJesus' hands.
Yeah.
On her on this day.
Mm-hmm.
It's like God sees you and heput you on my heart.
To reach out to you on this day.
(30:05):
Yeah, and you can do that fromthis little piece of paper that
you get at the funeral.
Take it with you.
Don't put it in the trash.
Plug those dates in your phone.
And, the return, the, responsehas been incredible.
Just from those little, like,wow, you remembered, because
sometimes, people in the familywill forget the day of the
(30:25):
anniversary.
Sometimes they'll forget thebirthday, but the fact that you
remembered it is a big deal,especially in friendships.
Mm-hmm.
I mean in all, all across theboard, but
Kimber (30:35):
especially in friendships.
Yeah, absolutely.
'cause they're already walkingthrough that day.
And so to enter into that, I cansee where that would be a way
that you could
Julie (30:45):
Yeah.
Enter into that.
Yeah.
It's powerful and it, it can beso simple.
I mean, it can be a text, it canbe a meal, it can be a lot of
different things.
But when it's very specific to aday that you know is gonna be
tender for them, it's, it's verypowerful.
Kimber (30:59):
Hmm.
That's so good.
What do you feel like is, Youknow, one or two things that we
you know, as friends, we don'tthink of, when our friends are
walking through grief, what dowe not realize that our friends
really need from us?
in these moments?
Moments.
So I think
Julie (31:17):
one of them is, um, grief is lonely.
Um, it's very lonely.
there God only made one of theperson that you lost.
Yeah.
And so there is a wide majorityof your circle that is not gonna
understand.
and so just that awareness, thatgrief is lonely.
And so if you're on the fenceabout whether or not to lean in,
(31:39):
go ahead and lean in.
Mm-hmm.
Because there's a highprobability that nobody else in
their circle has asked themabout their grief today.
Um, and so just that awarenessthat it can be very lonely and
very isolating, um, because mostpeople aren't gonna bring it up
at work.
They're not gonna stop by youroffice or stop by your
(31:59):
workstation and say, so how, youknow, they're, they're just not
gonna ask that because they'reafraid.
Right?
They're afraid of making youcry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So lean if you, if you're indoubt, lean in.
Kimber (32:10):
Yeah, especially like down the road, I feel like that
probably becomes less and lessright.
Because That's exactly right.
People move on with their livesand like forget things, you
know, when they're not right infront of them.
so I love that idea of likeputting the dates in our phones,
you know?
What do you feel like the furlike, so quote, the further you
(32:32):
get away from a moment of grief,um, what do you think is most
important for friends to beaware of?
Like the further our friend isaway from the mo, the initial
moment.
Um, how does that maybe change?
Or like what, what is somethingthat we should be aware of the
further away they are from it?
Yeah.
Julie (32:52):
The further away that they get from the grief, um, the
less relevant that their personthat they lost is to the world.
Hmm.
And so when you bring up astory, a memory, it's like for a
minute, they're back with themfor just a second.
Yeah.
Um, and so I've watched this,um, with clients be so healing
when they can hear from familymembers and friends like, Hey, I
(33:14):
remember a time that, you know,we laughed together doing this.
Or, we did this in a reallypractical way one year at our
blue Christmas service here atour church.
Um, you know, if the paperchains that you used to make as
kids.
Yeah.
Um, we wrote memories on thoseand then gave them to someone
who was grieving and theycreated these memory chains that
(33:35):
they could put on theirChristmas tree.
Oh, wow.
And so that's cool.
Um, that is just one reallysimple idea, of how to really,
link back to, the, therelevance.
That their person that they losthad on this earth, obviously
they're not here anymore.
And, that is really hard for agrieving person, who's trying to
(33:56):
go on, right.
with the person that they lostbeing less and less relevant as
time goes on.
And that's really hard.
So when you bring up a memory,when you bring up a story that
is such a big gift.
Yeah.
Kimber (34:08):
Wow.
I love that idea.
And I, I think that could beeven Something that you could do
as like a community, like, youknow, if you have like a friend
group or something that, allknew that person that you lost
or, or in a family even, to allkind of like, almost like get
together and do that.
Like, you know, write as many asyou can and then make the chain
(34:29):
together or something.
Yes.
That would be, that's reallycool.
Yes.
I love that.
Because you're celebrating theirlife then, not just Exactly.
Mourning the loss.
Yeah.
Julie (34:38):
Exactly.
We, it was, it was an amazingthing to watch widows walk out
of that service with this, youknow, they have the, the means
to make this chain of memoriesto put on their tree about the
person that they loved and lost.
And so it, it's a very specialthing to get to do that.
Yeah.
Kimber (34:54):
I love that.
Wow.
Um, Julie Lynn, would you saythat you primarily work with
people who have, who aregrieving because of a death that
they have lost?
Yeah, that
Julie (35:04):
is correct.
That's my training.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Kimber (35:06):
Yes.
Okay, gotcha.
Um, because I know that like, Alot of, uh, we experience grief
with like this, uh, preemptivesometimes, like the leading up
to, or even grief that weexperience in like other
circumstances in our lives.
Like, you know, friends who arewalking through fertility
challenges.
(35:27):
Yes.
Things like that.
but the finality, I suppose ofgrief that comes with a death,
Is probably changes.
How it impacts a person.
Because like, you know, I thinkof with, my friends walking
through infertility, that grief,I feel like it, it seems like
(35:49):
there's potentially a horizon onthe other side.
Mm-hmm.
Right, right.
And, but how do you feel like,it changes the grief when there
is like the the finality aspectof it and it's like there's
nothing like you said that will.
make this part better, right.
Or like, change this outcome.
Um, how do you feel like thatchanges the grieving process
(36:11):
itself?
Julie (36:13):
There's this deep yearning that can't be fixed or
met or mm-hmm.
Um, and that's the, thefrustrating part for a grieving
person is right.
Um, this, I, I wish they werehere for this.
I wish that I could talk withthem about this challenging
situation.
And we always used to talk aboutthis, and now they're gone.
Yeah.
Um, and so that's the, the part,that in terms of working this
(36:37):
through with clients is sochallenging because there is
this side of heaven, there's apermanence to it.
Right?
Um, so, and that's, that's thepart that, and again, um, I
think that's why people are sointimidated to bring it up
because there's nothing they cando.
To bring the person back, to fixit, to, to, um, restore.
(36:57):
And so that's, I think why we'reso intimidated to bring it up
and talk about it.
Kimber (37:02):
Yeah.
I think that that's true.
That at least resonates for me.
Mm-hmm.
I, um, am such a fixer.
And so I feel like, um, as we'vebeen, Leaning in on the podcast
over the last like year or sointo talking about grief more
is, I think that it's been suchlike a good learning experience
for me in, um, there are justthings in our friendships that
(37:26):
they're not gonna get, theydon't get fixed.
Right.
Like, they just don't.
And that's part of, I think justbeing an adult with like grownup
problems And that is reallyhard.
but I think that it can actuallybe good because it forces us not
to rely just on like goodcircumstances in our
friendships, but rather to relyon the Lord and like actual
(37:49):
authentic love for our people.
Yes.
Not just like, easycircumstances because Right.
Easy circumstances make easyfriendships, but they don't
necessarily make like deep,authentic friendships.
Exactly.
I think
Julie (38:02):
situations when you walk through, um, a grief with
someone, there's this depth,there's this richness that forms
in, in the relationship that youmight not have had if you hadn't
walked through this really darkvalley.
Kimber (38:15):
Mm.
Wow, man.
Well, I love to kind of wrap upthe podcast, with just some
encouragement to kind of sendour people off, and we've talked
a lot from this focus todayabout, How to be like a good
friend to someone who is walkingthrough grief.
but I think for our finalencouragement, I would love to
hear, um, just kind of yourheart towards someone who is in
(38:39):
that grief moment.
And so for a friend listening,if If she is the one who is
walking through grief, whetherit's newer or like you said,
like this doesn't go away.
Like, you know, maybe this isyears ago, but it's still like a
part of your heart.
and she feels like it impactsher friendships.
Um, and it's like maybe shedoesn't have a lot to give in
(39:00):
this moment, or friendships feelstrained, or a challenge.
because of her grief, What doyou feel like you would say to
her in that moment to encourageher heart?
I.
So
Julie (39:12):
to the person that's grieving, especially one that,
where it's been very recentmm-hmm.
Um, I would tell that grievingperson, um, that you are doing
things, that are very difficultthat the rest of us take for
granted.
And what I mean by that isgetting up out of bed, getting
showered.
Paying the bills and going towork.
We take that for granted.
(39:33):
We get up and just do thatrotely.
But for you, it's really, reallyhard work right now.
Hmm.
And so it's okay to stop and bekind and gentle with yourself
and celebrate the fact that youdid those things today that
we're really, really difficultto do.
Hmm.
Um, and.
In the middle of what you'rewalking through.
(39:54):
Um, don't be surprised.
if God, who is the God ofmiracles, the God of unexpected
mm-hmm.
The God of the extraordinarymight ask you to give.
In the middle of, a dry season.
And you will know if thathappens, that he's the one that
did it, and that he sees youjust like you did with Sally
(40:14):
Joe.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and you will know that heloves you and he sees you, um,
and he has not forgotten you.
Um, so those are the things Iwould say, um, to someone that
is, especially someone that'sjust been through a loss, Is
that, you are loved and you'redoing the extraordinary.
Kimber (40:32):
Yeah.
Hmm.
I love that.
Well, Julie Lynn, thank you somuch for just spending time with
us today and just sharing someof your, um, wisdom and
experience with this it's notsomething that we just know how
to do automatically, and so Ithink it's like so good to give
ourselves grace, um, and also toseek that, you know, that growth
(40:55):
and truth and how we can, Lovebetter because think that our
friends really, really need thatfrom us, especially in those
moments.
So thank you so much for sharingwith us today.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Julie (41:08):
Bye bye-Bye.
Kimber (41:13):
Friends.
I'm so glad you could join meand Julie on the show this week.
Grief can seem like such a hardspace to enter into with our
people, but it's truly one ofthe areas we most need our
community in.
If you would like more supportfrom Julie Lynn, I encourage you
to visit her websites.
Julie Lynn, ashley.com.
And it's in the episodedescription.
(41:33):
And in there you can learn moreabout the services that she
provides.
She has tons of vetted resourcesavailable as well.
And you can also find her onInstagram At Julie Lynn, Ashley.
Well friends, here's where therubber meets the road.
As we seek to lead the way bybeing the friend, we know we all
need in our lives.
I pray that you would find waysto enter into a friend's grief
(41:55):
this week in either a small or abig way.
And if this conversation blessedyou, would you share it with a
friend this week?
Taking these conversationsbeyond the podcast player is my
greatest desire with thisseries.
And so I hope that this can actas like a springboard for some
good talks as you go about yourweek.
Also make sure you've subscribedto the podcast wherever you
(42:15):
listen.
So you don't miss an episode.
And you can also sign up to bepart of my newsletter crews so
that you get a weekly previewdirectly to your email inbox of
what will be on the podcast thatweek.
Just visit your sisterkimber.com and subscribe there.
Friends.
Thank you so much for spendingpart of your tea with us until
next time.
It's your sister Kimber.
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