August 23, 2023 • 37 mins
In the final episode in our Being the Friend You Need summer series, Meghan and I talk about the friend we need: one who challenges us, pushes back against our bad ideas, and metaphorically “stabs us in the front,” rather than in the back by telling us the truth, even when it feels hard.
We also take some time to reflect on this series as a whole, which I pray has blessed your friendships this summer! Thank you so much for joining us for this series!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kimber (00:09):
hey friends.
Welcome to the, your sisterKimber podcast.
My name is Kimber Gilbert, andI'm so glad you're here today.
Guys, this is the final episodein our summer series being the
friend you need.
And I mean, I can't believe it.
I do pray that this series hasdrawn you closer to Jesus and
closer to your people.
As we've discussed how Jesus islife and our relationship with
(00:32):
him can teach us to be thatfriend that we know we all need.
Today, we're wrapping up thisseries with a final conversation
about a friend that I havelearned I need in my life.
One who challenges me or pushesback when I'm missing it.
Or as Megan puts it stabs me inthe front, not in the back.
This kind of friend is a rarebreed, but it's one that can be
(00:53):
such a blessing to our lives.
So I'm excited to chat with youall about how we can cultivate
this kind of relationshipstoday.
As always, I do wish that itcould be a person ideally over
coffee, but this is the nextbest thing.
I'm so glad you're here, friend.
Let's get started.
Hey friends.
(01:14):
Megan, welcome back.
How are you doing today?
Hi Kimber.
Good.
How are you doing?
Yeah, I'm good.
I'm good.
This is the last time though,that we're gonna be talking this
summer, um, which is just.
It's crazy to me that we talkedin our last episode about how,
oh my goodness.
Like summer's almost over andwe're wrapping up this summer
series.
School's starting all thethings, but all the things.
(01:36):
Um, man, I have, I have justreally enjoyed this series.
It's been such a blessing for meto like, have someone to talk
with this summer.
'cause I love, yeah, just lovedhaving a buddy and someone that
I could, it's been awesome.
Go back and forth with.
Yeah.
It's been so good.
No, I lost it.
So, um, this series we have,man, we've, we've gone through a
lot of different things, um,just about this idea that, we
(01:59):
all have this ideal friend, Ithink in mind.
Um mm-hmm.
But really all we can control inthat we can't just like only
look for that kind of person.
All we can control is Leadingthe way and being that kind of a
friend and see who God bringsinto our lives.
Right.
And so, man, as we've been goingthrough this series, we've just
been talking about how like ifwe wanna be that friend that we
(02:21):
need, the one we look to isJesus.
'cause like he is the best modelthat we have of the kind of
friend that we all really want.
He is that kind of friend thatwe need.
And so, I think that, as we'relooking at like all these
different areas, like last weekyou talked about how being in
step with the spirit and showingthose fruits of the spirit and
our relationships can grow them.
(02:43):
Or, um, prayer we talked aboutback at the beginning, or like
grief and mourning we've talkedabout as well.
Yeah.
Like all of these things I thinkjust give us such a good model,
um, for how our relationshipwith Jesus impacts our
friendships here on earth.
And so, um, I've just lovedlooking at.
Jesus life and through thislens, because I think it always
(03:05):
makes me notice what thesethings are in the gospels that I
don't really pay attention tootherwise, you know, it's like
when you read somethingspecifically looking for
something else, you just noticethings that you wouldn't
otherwise.
Because usually when I read likethe gospels, Jesus's story,
we're thinking about like hismission or like his work on the
(03:26):
cross, which of course thosethings are primary.
Right, right, right.
But I think that he also reallyteaches us how to human well and
yes.
Yeah.
So I've loved looking at that.
And so I would love if we couldjust start this kind of final
episode of this series.
Like what stands out to youabout Jesus and how he did
(03:47):
relationships or friendships,like what do you think is that
big thing that we, A big thingbecause there's lots that we can
learn from how he did life withothers and, and how he did
friendships.
Yeah.
Well, the first thing I thoughtof was
Meghan (04:01):
that, you know, one of the names that we have for Jesus
is a friend of sinners.
And so,
Kimber (04:06):
you know, he,
Meghan (04:07):
I think would consider all his friend in that way of
that he loved the unlovable.
We see that so many times inscripture, the people that were
mm-hmm.
You know, cast out and, weren'tat a social status that the rest
of the world would say isappropriate or okay or
acceptable.
Right.
You know, he, he went down tothose places and met those
(04:28):
people.
Um, I love that.
And so I lo so he starts offwith like, the playing field is
level here.
Mm-hmm.
And then within that, withinthat, he has, it kind of goes up
from there.
And he's got his circles withpeople and he is got his, the
people that he'd ministry withand he has his disciples.
And then within that, withinthat realm of disciples, he had
his closest three friends.
(04:49):
And so you just see these, likethese circles go out, but the
whole time he is.
He is a friend to, to all inshowing kindness and gentleness
and all those things we talkedabout in the previous episode.
So, um, that's what I like,stands out to me is, I can be a
friend, you know, quote unquotefriend to everyone and love
everyone.
But then there's those, peer,you know, those levels up of the
(05:11):
closeness and intimacy that
Kimber (05:12):
happens.
Yes.
That was actually somethingthat, that came, yeah, access.
That was something that came tomind to me too because, you
know, it's like we think of thelife of Jesus and I think that
one of the things that standsout to me is like most prominent
probably about what his presencewas like, is that, you know,
even if someone had just met himand they only interacted with
(05:34):
him for a moment, like as he washealing them or something like
that encounter, I'm sure wentwith them for the rest of their
lives, right?
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Regardless of like how close hewas to someone, it seems like
his presence impacted, right?
Yeah.
Just'cause of how he lovedpeople and um, but then like
(05:55):
you're saying, it's also thisidea of like boundaries, right?
Mm-hmm.
And like, like access, like yousaid, like not everyone had
equal access to him despite,right?
Those people that, you know,periodically experienced his
presence in powerful ways, youknow?
And so that idea of like, howdoes, in my friendships then,
(06:15):
how do boundaries or like, youknow, levels of intimacy, how do
those things interact withhaving like sacrificial love for
people?
Because like, you know, thereare moments when you know Jesus.
Love sacrificially by like,giving time to people that he
might not, right.
That he could have spent withhis disciples or that he could
(06:38):
have spent like in prayer or byhimself.
Like, he, you see him like reachoutside of those things in
loving, sacrificial ways.
But then you also see timeswhere he is putting up firm
boundaries and like saying, no,like, I'm gonna withdraw and
like, be with my father.
Or, um, like, Hey, you threedisciples, come with me for
(07:00):
this.
The rest of you stay here.
Like, yeah, like he, you know,things.
So it's like equal access is notthe answer.
Right?
But setting like friendshipboundaries in ways that like,
Are healthy and are, areactually like for our good and
our relational health is clearlylaid out in his life.
(07:23):
And so, although that's not likethe main thrust of the New
Testament, um, or at least thegospels, like, I think that
that's something that we can seein his life that can be such a,
a helpful just model for us.
Because it's like, like you'resaying, like those sort of
concentric circles is how a lotof times I think of it or like,
(07:43):
you know, a tower of Yes.
Uh, like closeness, like you'resaying.
You know, those things, thatkind of a model I think can be
really helpful in our lives.
And that's not, Diametricallyopposed to like loving
sacrificially Yes.
In relationships.
Right, right.
Like we can have sacrificiallove for, you know, those people
that we don't know as well andstill have healthy boundaries.
(08:08):
Exactly.
And so that, that just likedynamic has been something that
has been, um, on my mind lately.
I think also because I'm such aperson who's like a more the
merrier kind of girl.
Yes.
Um, same, but I do not have thatkind of capacity for like no
close friendship.
Mm-hmm.
And so learning how to stewardthat well, like my capacity for
(08:30):
friendship stewarding that wellis, uh, probably will be a
lifelong journey.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just based on the trajectory sofar.
Meghan (08:39):
Yes.
No.
Yeah.
It's, I, I'm, I'm similar.
Like I think I, yeah.
You know, a lot of people woulddescribe me as someone has a
large capacity for.
For people and like, yeah.
Community.
I would say that in the lastlike, I don't know, seven or
eight months, I've definitelylike, felt a little bit more,
um, not that I don't have, but Ithink I, I'm in a season of a
smaller bit smaller capacity andlike who I'm allowing to like
(09:00):
really speak in right now.
And, um, and that's not, that'snot a bad thing.
Um, it's just, it's a new thing.
I think that's, it's kind of,that's very normal.
It's a new thing for me becauseI'm like, I'm usually the like
social butterflies doing all thething, you know?
And I'm like, yeah.
Like now pass and everyone's,yeah.
Anyways,
Kimber (09:16):
I think that's so true and I love that you say that
actually, because I'm surethere's, um, friends listening
who feel like they are thatsocial butterfly too, and I,
it's like a tactic of the enemywhen we go through times when we
need to narrow that a littlebit.
Yeah.
It's a tactic of the enemy tomake it seem like either we're
not loving people well or we'renot really being ourselves,
(09:39):
quote unquote, or, you know, weneed to fix something or what's
wrong with me.
Um, no, there's just, I thinkthere's just, we need different
things at different times and Ithink that's okay.
And I, like I said, I thinkJesus' life reflects that like
Yeah, yeah.
Are times when he just like wasaround people so often it seems
and he's like pouring out,pouring out, pouring out.
(10:00):
And then there are times when hewithdraws and like no one sees
or hears from him for who knowshow long.
We know.
At least one time when he wentinto the wilderness to be
tempted by the end of the 40days.
Right.
So like, I don't think that aswe go through those ebbs and
flows, I don't think that thatshould be something that feels
(10:21):
bad to us or untrue to ourselveseven, or at, you know, at worst
it's, it's not that we're notloving people.
Well, I think it's just that ourhearts need different things at
different times fromfriendships.
Yeah.
For sure.
Yeah, I agree.
So I I love that you sharedthat.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I, I think man,friends listening, if you have
never read the gospels throughthis lens of like how to be a
(10:43):
good friend Yeah.
I would challenge you to do itbecause obviously, like I said,
that's not the main thrust, butlike Jesus is such, I think, a
deep well for mm-hmm.
Just that how to human idea.
Yep.
And I think we can learn a lotfrom,
Meghan (10:57):
it's so, yeah.
And the gospels are just sorelational and Yeah.
That's what they are so, so deepin with that,
Kimber (11:02):
so yeah.
Mm-hmm.
I love it.
Well, at the beginning of thissummer, um, since we are kind of
reflecting through this episode,um, I remember that we both
shared in the first episode, Ithink, uh, just the parts of the
series that we were like mostlooking forward to as we Yeah.
Like we're getting started and Iremember, I think we, we both
said two different ones Yeah.
(11:23):
That we were most excited for.
And one of them, was like thisidea of like, friends who
challenge us and that's whatwe're gonna talk about today.
The other one though, wasprayer.
And that's what we kicked offthe series with.
And so I would love, just beforewe get into the, the idea of
friends who challenge us, toreflect a little bit on that,
that prayer idea.
We talked about it a long timeago.
(11:44):
It's been several months sincethen.
How have you seen the Lordgrowing in, just you in the area
of prayer?
Um, since we started thisseries.
Yeah.
And since we had thatconversation back in, like, may
I know, when was that?
Meghan (11:57):
I was, yeah.
Wow.
It feels like forever ago andnot that long ago, A
Kimber (12:01):
million years ago.
Meghan (12:04):
Um, I would say it's grown quite a bit.
Um, I was really challengedafter our conversation too,
again, of just, um, for me,like, because I'm such an
outward processor, it's verymuch easier for me to want to
process with externally, withother people.
And so that's been my bigchallenge.
I think this summer is justtaking that to the Lord first.
(12:25):
Hmm.
Um, before I go to others, otherpeople.
Yeah.
For that and, and taking it toothers is, is important too.
Like there's definitely like,again, like the Holy Spirit and
hearing that from our friends,but my first job is to be.
Obedient to Christ and to be inhis presence first, um, and take
(12:46):
it to him.
So that's been like my challengewith prayer.
It's been really awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
Had lots of opportunities tohave to do it.
Kimber (12:54):
Isn't that how it goes?
Yeah.
I, I feel like for me it's been,um, just a lot of like surrender
of like, you know, what thisshould look like.
What does it look like?
And just like kind of God, likestripping some things back, um,
revealing some things to me.
But what I feel like he keepssaying through prayer to me
(13:18):
lately is just centered on loveand like his love for me.
Because I think, I mean we talkabout it a lot here obviously is
the.
Main topic behind my podcast islike, how to love others well.
Right.
But I think that we can't loveothers well until we receive the
love of God.
And so I think that that is whathe has been trying to teach me
(13:38):
lately is just how to likereally receive that and live in
that.
And, man, it's a lot.
More easy for me tointellectualize that to not,
than to actually feel it, um,and experience it and like, know
it deeply.
And so, I feel like that's beenwhere, what we've been talking
about lately, but that's good.
I, I think it was A powerfulthing to set off the summer, and
(13:58):
I think this theme of prayer isgonna continue in our community
and so into the fall, and I'mexcited for that.
So, yeah, absolutely.
Oh, that's good.
Well, the other one that wetalked about, like I said, um,
in the intro episode of thisseries, uh, which I will say
friends listening, if you arejust now joining us, um, for
whatever reason, if you justhopped onto this episode, I
(14:20):
would encourage you to go backand catch up on this whole
series, um, over the course ofthe fall.
It started back in episode 52.
It's called Being the Friend YouNeed.
And, um, that's where theseconversations started that we're
referencing here.
But that one we talked about inthat episode was just this idea
of, I need a friend whochallenges me or like mm-hmm.
(14:42):
Pushes back, um, is how I say ita lot of the time.
and for me, this idea.
I think comes from just the factthat like, I'm a pretty
strong-willed person.
Like I generally know what Ithink and how I think things
should be, and I don't usuallyhave a problem saying that.
And like, you know, expressingthat, like, I just think that I
(15:02):
can be a strong personality.
And so I've come to realize thatsometimes it seems like that
results in, sometimes my friendswill just like, go along with
things that I say or thinkrather than like pushing back
when I am missing the boat.
Or like, that was dumb likethat, isn't it?
(15:24):
Like, you know, like, I needsomeone, multiple people or you
know, at least one friend in mylife who's gonna like call me on
my stuff.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
And I know that I need that,that's more apparent to me than
ever.
Um, like I need that in my life.
And so over the past few yearsI've been like more intentional
about like, Setting up thosekind of relationships in my
(15:47):
life.
Mm-hmm.
So that I, I know that that'sgonna happen.
but I think that it, that kindof a friendship doesn't happen
naturally quite, um, sure.
And I think you referred to thisidea as like, a friend who stabs
me in the front.
Yes.
Um, do you remember that phrase?
Yes, I remember that, yes.
Yeah.
That was not, was that originalto you or did you hear that from
(16:07):
something?
No,
Meghan (16:07):
no.
It was from, I was trying tothink of it.
I can see the, there's a guy onInstagram who does this amazing,
like artwork.
I'll have to find his profile.
I can like literally see it inmy head.
Yeah.
Um, but he, it was a picturethat he had drawn of like two
like soldiers and the one guyliterally just got like a knife
through the chest of his friend.
(16:27):
Mm-hmm.
And it just says, um, a friendstabs you in the front.
And then he kind of went intolike, what that means a little
bit.
Yeah.
And, and that whole aspect of.
I want a friend that's not gonnabe afraid to tell me my stuff or
what they're seeing in my lifeand call me out on it.
And that, that's like the mostloving thing to do versus stab,
stab me in the back.
And so, right.
(16:49):
and I think again, that's socounterculture to our world of,
a lot of people want friendshipis like, you just go along with
what I'm doing right and be finewith it.
Um, but that's not true.
Like for me, I'm like a realfriend is someone who says, I'm
seeing this in your life.
And like, the fact that theyfeel like they can do that shows
that there's trust and thatthere's a love and careness
(17:09):
there.
Um, that's really important tohave.
And so, um, yeah.
So a friend that stabs you, youwant a friend that stabs you in
the front and, uh, in the back.
Yeah.
Kimber (17:16):
Mm.
I love that.
So how do you think that wecultivate this in our
friendships?
Because yeah, I don't think thatit's natural most to most people
or that idea of like Right.
You know, pushing back in ourfriendships.
And like you said, it'sdefinitely not natural in our
culture that Yeah.
It's telling the truth to ourpeople.
So where do you think we, likestart with this?
(17:37):
What do you see as like beingsome ways to cultivate this in
our relationships?
Meghan (17:42):
So I'm gonna say like, you know, people can come up to
me and tell me whatever theywanna say, but I'm gonna hold
that a lot differently.
Um, if Joe Schmo comes up andsays something to me versus
like, my best friend in thewhole world.
Yeah.
And so there's a level ofrelationship I think and trust
that has to be prettyfoundationally layered, I think,
(18:02):
to get to that point.
And I think that that's aconversation that needs to be
had of like, I.
Want a deep friendship with you.
Again, we've talked about thatbefore of like, I wanna pursue
this with you.
I want someone that's gonna holdme accountable.
Hmm.
Um, and I want to give youpermission to do that and speak
into my life.
Like I think that's somethingthat, because I know for me,
(18:24):
like I might have my opinionsabout things, but I'm not
necessarily always gonnavocalize it to you unless I know
that like, you're okay with me.
Now.
If you're like, yes, straightoff going the rails, I'll
probably like, well, sure, sure.
Right.
You know, but like those littlethings in life or, I mean, it
could be big things too, butjust those kind of more personal
things, I might not Right.
(18:45):
Necessarily feel like, is it myplace to say something until
Yes.
I feel like we're at that spot,and usually that's because we've
had a conversation to put us inthat
Kimber (18:54):
place.
Yeah.
I love that, encouragement toliterally like talk about it,
like articulate permission.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
To the people in your life thatyou would like this to be the
standard of your friendship.
Mm-hmm.
Tell them like, yeah.
And I think for me, this haslooked like, literally saying
like please tell me the truth onthis.
(19:16):
Like, you know, you havepermission to Yep.
Push back and tell me I'mmissing it if I, if I, I just
Meghan (19:22):
did that couple weeks ago.
Yep.
I was like, Hey, you know, Ihad, I had said something and
was like, I, I'm actually askingfor your opinion.
Like, yes, please feel like youcan tell me like, oh, okay.
You know, like, I want to hearwhat you have to say.
Don't feel like you have to holdback on this.
So, yeah.
Um,
Kimber (19:40):
yeah, because it's such that like we've balance, I mean,
we talked about it last episodetoo, of like, we're not our
friend's, holy Spirit.
Right?
Right.
And so I think that if we'regonna.
On one side or the other of theline, we're probably gonna err
on the side of not sayinganything, right.
If we're trying to like, beloving, you know?
but I think there is space forthis, like pushing back,
(20:02):
challenging, stabbing in thefront, in certain relationships.
Because like you also said, Ithink the other thing to
remember here is that this isnot for every relationship.
No, no.
Every friendship.
Meghan (20:14):
Not, there's be some people where I'm like, not
everyone, okay, okay, thanks,bye.
Like, I'm not, not that I don'tcare about, but I'm not gonna
hold that as like tightly
Kimber (20:22):
as I, I would with weight.
Yeah.
Right.
Absolutely.
Because I think it, yeah, it's,it has to be built on that
foundation where you know thatyour heart for each other is
love and flourishing and likeYeah.
More of Jesus.
Like that is the foundation.
And so if that's established andyou've like given permission to
(20:45):
each other, That, that's gonnabe like something that is a part
of your relationship.
Then when it comes through, it'snot like you're not on the
defensive, hopefully as much, oreven if it does put you on the
defensive, you're probably gonnacome down from that a little bit
faster because you remember Oh,like I literally asked them to
do that.
Yeah.
And I know that they love me andI have Exactly.
(21:07):
Yeah.
I know their heart for
Meghan (21:08):
me.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Kimber (21:11):
And I think with that too though, it's like we still
have to make sure that, the waythat we're, I.
Bringing it to someone is justlike cloaked in love.
Oh.
'cause there's like, right,there's this idea, I think too,
where it's like, oh well we'refriends who just are honest with
each other.
And then that turns into justlike, you suck.
Meghan (21:32):
I can say
Kimber (21:32):
anything.
Yeah.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I can say anything and I don'tthink that that is good either.
No, no.
So how do you feel like we kindof walk that line?
Yeah.
Well
Meghan (21:41):
I think the first thing is like when I know I need to
bring something to somebody isprayer.
Mm-hmm.
And is this, is this somethingwhere, this is just my opinion?
Yeah.
Is this just my likeinterpretation?
And maybe that's part of theconversation that you have, but
like, what are my motives inthis?
What are my like really breakingdown?
(22:03):
Like what do I wanna get out ofthis conversation and then
taking that to them.
but I think there's a wholebehind the scenes process that
kind of needs to be happeningwithin your own heart of, yeah.
When I bring this to them, um,I'm kind of like a, I tend to
work through the scenarios in myhead, so it's like, yeah, what
is gonna happen if this goesreally well?
(22:23):
What am I gonna say?
Mm.
Right.
What if this doesn't go well?
Like what?
'cause sometimes, and this hashappened to me, I've been on
both ends of this, like, where Ihave not received it well, um,
or I've said something tosomeone, they haven't taken it
well of like, they gave mepermission and then I did it,
and then they don't really want,they didn't really want it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or I didn't really want to hearit at the time.
(22:45):
Um
Kimber (22:45):
mm-hmm.
So, and that's still the risk,right?
And that's
Meghan (22:48):
still the risk that you take.
But, um, but those have alwaysworked out, you know what I
mean?
That's just another, like, youwork through it or it's like,
oh, I didn't handle that.
Well, we're human.
It's gonna happen.
Um, yeah.
But I think that it's just gottabe so heavily soaked in like the
Holy Spirit of like, what areyour words, grace, love.
How can I be you in this momentand reach my friend, you know?
(23:13):
Yeah.
And then also know that they'regonna make their own decisions
too.
Like again, you're not the HolySpirit.
And so it's kind of one of thosethings where like, I speak this
and then
Kimber (23:21):
you do what you will.
Right.
But I don't control.
Yeah.
Right.
I don't control.
And I think that's where themotive comes back too.
Like what do you want out ofthis?
Like if your motive is just tolike demonstrate how much you
care about them and you want thebest for them, like you love
them, that kind of thing, then Ifeel like that.
Is easier to hold the resultloosely than if your motivation
(23:46):
is like, well they need to fixthis about their lives.
Right.
And
Meghan (23:49):
they need to see it.
They don't my way and do what Iwant, how I wanted them to do
it.
Yeah.
Here's my step-by-step plan tofix your life.
Please take care.
Kimber (23:57):
It's gonna go.
It's not, it's gonna go awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that, that, that adviceis, is so good because yeah, if,
if there is a situation likethis in, in your friendships,
it's, yeah, it's a little bittricky to navigate.
Um, I feel like though, if wewant to cultivate this kind of
(24:17):
thing in a certain friendshipagain,'cause not in all of our
friendships, but in one or twoin our lives that we feel like
have that foundational trust,you feel like you can, could
receive that kind of thing fromthem in a way that would like,
bless your life.
Um, I think you kind of almosthave to like lead the way in
having that kind of conversationonce you've had like, The
(24:39):
conversation that is like, Hey,I wanna be friends who, who have
this kind of a relationship.
And they're like, yeah, thatsounds good.
Like, kind of thing.
Like once you have thatestablished, that like
permission, I think sometimes wehave to like be willing to lead
the way in it.
Yeah.
And so, having that courage tolike, bring this kind of thing
(25:01):
to a friend, I think that is,man, that's nothing, that's not
natural.
That's hard to, no, it's hard.
Meghan (25:07):
even the flip side of like, even if it's like you
don't have something that youfeel like you need to say to
your friend of like, I see thisin your life, but being like,
here's what's happening in myheart and I need you to like
even Yeah.
What do you think?
What do you think?
Like, that might even be easierbecause I know for me it's a
lot, it's been in the past a loteasier to do that versus like,
Me being like, you're, I seethis in your life.
(25:29):
That's been a harder muscle forme to grow.
Like I gotta really, nowherewe're solid before I like Right.
Would go there, do that, wouldgo there.
Um, but, with some things itmight just be, it doesn't have
to be a major life thing, butjust, Hey, like, this
situation's happening.
What do you think?
What are your thoughts?
And then I feel like that kindof starts to get that other
friend to start to be like, oh,okay.
So like, they're like teachable.
(25:50):
They're receptive.
They're, they're not on thedefense.
Like they're asking, they wantthis like fluid like word
sharing our heart and back andforth, how can we back and
forth?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Back and forth.
So I
Kimber (26:00):
think that's a great way to lead the way in it.
Mm-hmm.
And like invite it.
That's what you're doing.
Yeah.
Is you're like, you're askingfor it uhhuh, like you've given
permission, but then also you'reasking for it and so yeah.
I think that can start toestablish it.
I love too that you mentionedthat like, this doesn't have to
always be like a huge lifething, like Right.
I feel like one of the ways thatI see people in my life, Doing
(26:21):
this idea of like challenging meor pushing back a little bit, is
even in smaller things, like ifwe're talking about something
you know, having a discussionabout like a life situation or,
you know, plans for the future,whatever it is.
Like this can even just looklike a friend who says, I don't
know, is that wise or, yeah.
Or like, I don't know.
(26:42):
Like I kind of see it this way,you know?
Yeah.
Like even just having people inour lives that dialogue can look
not just like us agreeing, butlike, kinda actually discussing
like in, in a yeah.
In a relationship.
And honestly, I feel like thatdoesn't happen as much in this
day and age in friendship asmaybe it could, like I think
(27:04):
there's just so much more roomfor like healthy, uh, dialogue
and disagreement that sometimes,like worldly friendship is
afraid of.
Yeah.
'cause again, it's that likewanting to keep that artificial
piece so we just like go alongto get along as opposed to like
challenging each other in our
Meghan (27:21):
conversations.
Right, right.
No, I totally
Kimber (27:23):
agree.
Yeah.
So how have you seen this kindof relationship?
Like, bless your life, would yousay?
Like, why should we, why shouldwe pursue it?
Is it really all it's cracked upto be?
Yeah.
How have you seen this be a goodthing?
Meghan (27:36):
I mean, there's been moments where I'm like, is this
all that this is going up
Kimber (27:39):
to be because it's, this sucks.
Yeah.
It sucks.
Meghan (27:43):
Like it doesn't always feel awesome.
Mm-hmm.
As the give or the receiver,
Kimber (27:48):
it's hard, you know?
Mm-hmm.
It is hard.
Meghan (27:49):
Mm-hmm.
and for me, I would say thatthis is something that's been
new to me since moving to Alaskaof like mm-hmm.
Like, I had really, I would sayI had strong friendships, in
other places, but here's beenthe first time where I feel
like, oh, it's solid.
Like we, we share like we're,we're not afraid to.
(28:10):
And, and, I mean, I've kind ofgone through a season recently
where I've had some people comeup to me and be like, Hey, you
know, I'm seeing this in yourlife and I've had to do it
recently with other, the samefriends, you know, some of'em of
like, Hey, I'm seeing this inyour life.
And so, it has blessed my lifeimmensely.
It's not always fun.
It's not easy.
(28:30):
Um, it brings us closer togetheras friends, because you are
showing me your trust, you'reshowing me your loyalty in that
moment of like, I.
They're not walking away fromme.
And that's for me, like that'smy biggest friendship.
Fear is being rejected and beingunwanted and walking away
without like any explanation.
(28:51):
So for me, I would much ratheryou just keep stabbing me in the
front, do all the things thanstab me in the back and walk
away.
Yeah.
Like, I, you know.
Yeah.
So, for me, like you, you areshowing kind of in a way your
allegiance and your loyalty andfaithfulness to me as a friend,
when you get, you feel like thatyou can speak into that or hear
(29:11):
it from me as well.
Um,
Kimber (29:13):
and so it's been I totally agree with that.
Yeah.
I think it like builds, it justlike builds trust even.
Yeah.
Because like, clearly there's achoice in that moment, where the
friend could just not sayanything and distance.
'cause they see that undesirablething or that thing that they
think is not maybe healthy orlike, uh, leading to life or
(29:34):
whatever, however the situationwould say it.
Um, and they can either like seeit and distance or they can see
it and confront it out of lovefor you.
Mm-hmm.
And a desire for yourrelationship to like be an
honest one.
Right.
And that is, like you said, notthe easy route.
And so when I see someone takethat, whether it's in like a
(29:56):
small thing, like we're having aconversation and my friend is
like, actually I don't thinkthat you're seeing this the
right way.
You know?
Right, right.
And I'm like, oh, like, oh, youcare enough about right.
Not only what we're talkingabout, but also we're
comfortable enough in ourfriendship to like, to have that
push and pull.
Yeah.
(30:16):
And that just like, I love that.
I think that that, makes me feelmore confident in our
relationship.
And so yeah, I think that thatidea of what it actually like
focusing on what does it build,like what does the good that can
come out of this, um, not justRight, the tension of the
moment.
Right.
Um, I think it is can be goodmotivator there as well.
For sure.
(30:36):
For sure.
Man.
Well, I feel like, uh, this is,it can be such like a hard
thing, but I definitely thinkthat, as we're kind of closing
out this series that just this.
the whole call of the series hasbeen to like, go to the hard
places in our friendships tolike go to the uncomfortable
spaces, you know, to go there.
Whether it's like in mourning orit's in, you know, and walking
(31:00):
through grief with our friends.
Like that's a hard space to goto or Yeah.
You know, when, when we weretalking about like, getting into
scripture together, like that'snot a conversation that's just
gonna naturally come up in yourfriendship probably, unless you
like go to that awkward spaceand it's the same, the same is
true I think, for this kind of athing is like, we're not going
(31:20):
to naturally wanna push back inour friendships'cause easier to
just go along to get along, but,right.
Um, the depth that it builds,uh, I think is worth it, both
for the friendship and just forus as people like friendships.
Mm-hmm.
it's like the, what is thesaying about marriage that it's
like, You know, it, it revealsyour, your brokenness.
(31:43):
It's not so that God can work init.
Isn't there a
Meghan (31:45):
saying for it around something or it's like, is there
like, you're like a mirror?
I don't know.
There's, there's probably a ton.
There probably
Kimber (31:52):
are anyway.
But it's that idea that, youknow, marriage reveals our
brokenness and it works to, Ithink, uh, sharpen us or not
sharpen us to, you know, softenour sharp edges because of that,
like friction.
Mm-hmm.
And I think the same is true forour relationship just with our
friends, right?
Like it reveals these parts ofour heart that our broken and
(32:15):
need like a need geo redemptivework.
And so often he wants to workthrough, or he chooses to work
through our relationships withpeople.
And I think that that is, It isreally cool of him because it
just shows how relational ourGod is.
But yeah, it also hurts.
It hurts too.
Oh yeah.
It sucks, I think in many ways.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(32:35):
It's, um, but I see the, I seethe blessing that comes from it
too, so, yeah.
Meghan (32:40):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Huge blessings.
Kimber (32:42):
Well, um, as we kind of wrap up both today's talk and
our series, um, we've just beenclosing out with the challenge
for just how we can put thesethings into practice.
So, Megan, what would you sayfor this idea of like, friends
who challenge us, who push backin little things or in big
things that are, feel more likea stab in the chest.
(33:05):
Mm-hmm.
Um, how do you think that we cantake a step forward in fostering
friendships?
That, you challenge each otherYeah.
And push back in.
Meghan (33:14):
I think so for the challenge, what I thought of was
just having that conversationwith somebody of, Hey, I want
to, um, the permission I wannabe held.
Yeah.
The permission conversation of Iwanna be held accountable are
you at that place in your lifewhere you feel like our
friendship is there?
Where you want that to?
Do you want accountability?
What does that look like for afriendship?
(33:34):
Yeah.
but that, started, I kinda likealways bring it back to yourself
of like, I'm desiring this in mylife.
Yeah.
Because I want to be like Jesus,or I, yeah.
I wanna be a better wife and abetter mom and all these things
and yeah.
Better friend, so can you helpme with those things?
And so have, have the permissionconversation.
Kimber (33:53):
I think that's really good.
And that makes me think of too,like this may not always be in a
peer-to-peer friendship.
Mm-hmm.
Like it could be just aone-sided thing where you don't
have to like necessarily getthem to give permission back.
Like this might be in more oflike a mentor relationship where
you're just saying like, youhave permission to speak into my
life this way, but you're notexpecting them to turn around
(34:16):
and like say the same back toyou necessarily.
Yeah.
Um, and so I think that can,could maybe be a good place to
start too, because I think in apeer-to-peer, like a true peer
relationship, this is harder tocultivate.
It, it, I think it's still, it'sa huge blessing in that kind of
a relationship.
But if you're just starting withlike wanting someone.
Who you know, is gonna like,hold you to this standard or
(34:39):
like call you out on stuff tokind of check you.
Mm-hmm.
If you're just wanting like tostart in that kind of,
territory, uh, I almost mightsay start with like someone
who's more of a mentorrelationship.
That's a great to you becausethat feels like a given.
Like they're already likesomeone who's speaking into your
life.
And so practice articulatingthat there.
Yeah.
Because there's as muchexpectation for it to be
(35:02):
reciprocal.
Um,
Meghan (35:04):
that's really good.
No, that's awesome.
Yeah.
Kimber (35:06):
Yeah.
That's so good.
I think that could be a goodcaveat for that too.
No, I love, that's challenge.
Um, I think that's, That's sogood for us friends.
Um, man, we just wanna thank youMegan, so much for, uh, hanging
out with us this summer.
I have loved it.
Um, and I know that our friendslistening have just benefited so
much from your wisdom and justyour heart for community here.
(35:28):
It's been, it's been a realblessing.
So thank you for being with Oh,no.
Meghan (35:32):
Thank you so much.
No, this has been super, superfun just to be able to do this
with you and talk aboutfriendship, which I love.
And, um mm-hmm.
Yeah, so thank you everyone fortuning in and listening and I
hope you guys just, I'd love tojust hear about the friendships
that are forming and the waysthat Yeah.
You know, either it's new orgrowing deeper with the ones you
got.
You know, just to keep, I loveit.
Keep pushing that
Kimber (35:52):
forward.
So yeah, if you know Megan inperson, you can tell her in
person, but for the rest of us,let's head over to social for
that.
Um, I know that that would be, Ilove hearing those kind of
stories too, so that would beYeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Well, thank you all so much forjoining us for this summer
series.
Um, man, I just pray that youcontinue to take these
(36:13):
conversations to your ownfriendships.
That has been my prayer thiswhole time that these would be
like springboard conversationsthat allow those relationships,
real relationships in your lifeto just grow in ways that honor
God and very closer to Jesus.
So yeah.
I'm so thankful for you guyslistening and just for the
space, so we love you guys.
(36:34):
Same.
Enjoy the last of your summer.
Yes, yes.
We'll talk later.
Bye friends.
Bye.
Friends.
I'm so glad that you could joinme and Megan on the show this
week.
And thank you so much forjoining us for this whole summer
series.
I have.
I loved digging into this topicand I pray that these
(36:56):
conversations spur you on.
To dig into these topics withyour friends too.
If you haven't listened to thewhole series, I invite you to go
back and start at episode 52called being the friend you
need.
Which launched this summerseries and work through them as
we go into the fall.
I'll be taking a bit of a breakfrom the podcast for a while.
So this is the perfectopportunity to get caught up on
(37:18):
old episodes that you missed orwere just so good that you need
another listen.
Especially as I go on a bit of abreak, I want to make sure that
you have signed out to be partof my newsletter crew so that
you can stay up to date oneverything happening at your
sister, Kimber.
You can just visit your sisterkimber.com and subscribe there.
Friends.
Thank you so much for spendingpart of your day with us.
(37:41):
And this community is such ablessing to me, to my
friendships.
And I pray that is for you andyours as well.
Until next time.
It's your sister.
Kimber.
hey friends.
Welcome to the, your sisterKimber podcast.
My name is Kimber Gilbert, andI'm so glad you're here today.
Guys, this is the final episodein our summer series being the
friend you need.
And I mean, I can't believe it.
I do pray that this series hasdrawn you closer to Jesus and
closer to your people.
As we've discussed how Jesus islife and our relationship with
(00:32):
him can teach us to be thatfriend that we know we all need.
Today, we're wrapping up thisseries with a final conversation
about a friend that I havelearned I need in my life.
One who challenges me or pushesback when I'm missing it.
Or as Megan puts it stabs me inthe front, not in the back.
This kind of friend is a rarebreed, but it's one that can be
(00:53):
such a blessing to our lives.
So I'm excited to chat with youall about how we can cultivate
this kind of relationshipstoday.
As always, I do wish that itcould be a person ideally over
coffee, but this is the nextbest thing.
I'm so glad you're here, friend.
Let's get started.
Hey friends.
(01:14):
Megan, welcome back.
How are you doing today?
Hi Kimber.
Good.
How are you doing?
Yeah, I'm good.
I'm good.
This is the last time though,that we're gonna be talking this
summer, um, which is just.
It's crazy to me that we talkedin our last episode about how,
oh my goodness.
Like summer's almost over andwe're wrapping up this summer
series.
School's starting all thethings, but all the things.
(01:36):
Um, man, I have, I have justreally enjoyed this series.
It's been such a blessing for meto like, have someone to talk
with this summer.
'cause I love, yeah, just lovedhaving a buddy and someone that
I could, it's been awesome.
Go back and forth with.
Yeah.
It's been so good.
No, I lost it.
So, um, this series we have,man, we've, we've gone through a
lot of different things, um,just about this idea that, we
(01:59):
all have this ideal friend, Ithink in mind.
Um mm-hmm.
But really all we can control inthat we can't just like only
look for that kind of person.
All we can control is Leadingthe way and being that kind of a
friend and see who God bringsinto our lives.
Right.
And so, man, as we've been goingthrough this series, we've just
been talking about how like ifwe wanna be that friend that we
(02:21):
need, the one we look to isJesus.
'cause like he is the best modelthat we have of the kind of
friend that we all really want.
He is that kind of friend thatwe need.
And so, I think that, as we'relooking at like all these
different areas, like last weekyou talked about how being in
step with the spirit and showingthose fruits of the spirit and
our relationships can grow them.
(02:43):
Or, um, prayer we talked aboutback at the beginning, or like
grief and mourning we've talkedabout as well.
Yeah.
Like all of these things I thinkjust give us such a good model,
um, for how our relationshipwith Jesus impacts our
friendships here on earth.
And so, um, I've just lovedlooking at.
Jesus life and through thislens, because I think it always
(03:05):
makes me notice what thesethings are in the gospels that I
don't really pay attention tootherwise, you know, it's like
when you read somethingspecifically looking for
something else, you just noticethings that you wouldn't
otherwise.
Because usually when I read likethe gospels, Jesus's story,
we're thinking about like hismission or like his work on the
(03:26):
cross, which of course thosethings are primary.
Right, right, right.
But I think that he also reallyteaches us how to human well and
yes.
Yeah.
So I've loved looking at that.
And so I would love if we couldjust start this kind of final
episode of this series.
Like what stands out to youabout Jesus and how he did
(03:47):
relationships or friendships,like what do you think is that
big thing that we, A big thingbecause there's lots that we can
learn from how he did life withothers and, and how he did
friendships.
Yeah.
Well, the first thing I thoughtof was
Meghan (04:01):
that, you know, one of the names that we have for Jesus
is a friend of sinners.
And so,
Kimber (04:06):
you know, he,
Meghan (04:07):
I think would consider all his friend in that way of
that he loved the unlovable.
We see that so many times inscripture, the people that were
mm-hmm.
You know, cast out and, weren'tat a social status that the rest
of the world would say isappropriate or okay or
acceptable.
Right.
You know, he, he went down tothose places and met those
(04:28):
people.
Um, I love that.
And so I lo so he starts offwith like, the playing field is
level here.
Mm-hmm.
And then within that, withinthat, he has, it kind of goes up
from there.
And he's got his circles withpeople and he is got his, the
people that he'd ministry withand he has his disciples.
And then within that, withinthat realm of disciples, he had
his closest three friends.
(04:49):
And so you just see these, likethese circles go out, but the
whole time he is.
He is a friend to, to all inshowing kindness and gentleness
and all those things we talkedabout in the previous episode.
So, um, that's what I like,stands out to me is, I can be a
friend, you know, quote unquotefriend to everyone and love
everyone.
But then there's those, peer,you know, those levels up of the
(05:11):
closeness and intimacy that
Kimber (05:12):
happens.
Yes.
That was actually somethingthat, that came, yeah, access.
That was something that came tomind to me too because, you
know, it's like we think of thelife of Jesus and I think that
one of the things that standsout to me is like most prominent
probably about what his presencewas like, is that, you know,
even if someone had just met himand they only interacted with
(05:34):
him for a moment, like as he washealing them or something like
that encounter, I'm sure wentwith them for the rest of their
lives, right?
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Regardless of like how close hewas to someone, it seems like
his presence impacted, right?
Yeah.
Just'cause of how he lovedpeople and um, but then like
(05:55):
you're saying, it's also thisidea of like boundaries, right?
Mm-hmm.
And like, like access, like yousaid, like not everyone had
equal access to him despite,right?
Those people that, you know,periodically experienced his
presence in powerful ways, youknow?
And so that idea of like, howdoes, in my friendships then,
(06:15):
how do boundaries or like, youknow, levels of intimacy, how do
those things interact withhaving like sacrificial love for
people?
Because like, you know, thereare moments when you know Jesus.
Love sacrificially by like,giving time to people that he
might not, right.
That he could have spent withhis disciples or that he could
(06:38):
have spent like in prayer or byhimself.
Like, he, you see him like reachoutside of those things in
loving, sacrificial ways.
But then you also see timeswhere he is putting up firm
boundaries and like saying, no,like, I'm gonna withdraw and
like, be with my father.
Or, um, like, Hey, you threedisciples, come with me for
(07:00):
this.
The rest of you stay here.
Like, yeah, like he, you know,things.
So it's like equal access is notthe answer.
Right?
But setting like friendshipboundaries in ways that like,
Are healthy and are, areactually like for our good and
our relational health is clearlylaid out in his life.
(07:23):
And so, although that's not likethe main thrust of the New
Testament, um, or at least thegospels, like, I think that
that's something that we can seein his life that can be such a,
a helpful just model for us.
Because it's like, like you'resaying, like those sort of
concentric circles is how a lotof times I think of it or like,
(07:43):
you know, a tower of Yes.
Uh, like closeness, like you'resaying.
You know, those things, thatkind of a model I think can be
really helpful in our lives.
And that's not, Diametricallyopposed to like loving
sacrificially Yes.
In relationships.
Right, right.
Like we can have sacrificiallove for, you know, those people
that we don't know as well andstill have healthy boundaries.
(08:08):
Exactly.
And so that, that just likedynamic has been something that
has been, um, on my mind lately.
I think also because I'm such aperson who's like a more the
merrier kind of girl.
Yes.
Um, same, but I do not have thatkind of capacity for like no
close friendship.
Mm-hmm.
And so learning how to stewardthat well, like my capacity for
(08:30):
friendship stewarding that wellis, uh, probably will be a
lifelong journey.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just based on the trajectory sofar.
Meghan (08:39):
Yes.
No.
Yeah.
It's, I, I'm, I'm similar.
Like I think I, yeah.
You know, a lot of people woulddescribe me as someone has a
large capacity for.
For people and like, yeah.
Community.
I would say that in the lastlike, I don't know, seven or
eight months, I've definitelylike, felt a little bit more,
um, not that I don't have, but Ithink I, I'm in a season of a
smaller bit smaller capacity andlike who I'm allowing to like
(09:00):
really speak in right now.
And, um, and that's not, that'snot a bad thing.
Um, it's just, it's a new thing.
I think that's, it's kind of,that's very normal.
It's a new thing for me becauseI'm like, I'm usually the like
social butterflies doing all thething, you know?
And I'm like, yeah.
Like now pass and everyone's,yeah.
Anyways,
Kimber (09:16):
I think that's so true and I love that you say that
actually, because I'm surethere's, um, friends listening
who feel like they are thatsocial butterfly too, and I,
it's like a tactic of the enemywhen we go through times when we
need to narrow that a littlebit.
Yeah.
It's a tactic of the enemy tomake it seem like either we're
not loving people well or we'renot really being ourselves,
(09:39):
quote unquote, or, you know, weneed to fix something or what's
wrong with me.
Um, no, there's just, I thinkthere's just, we need different
things at different times and Ithink that's okay.
And I, like I said, I thinkJesus' life reflects that like
Yeah, yeah.
Are times when he just like wasaround people so often it seems
and he's like pouring out,pouring out, pouring out.
(10:00):
And then there are times when hewithdraws and like no one sees
or hears from him for who knowshow long.
We know.
At least one time when he wentinto the wilderness to be
tempted by the end of the 40days.
Right.
So like, I don't think that aswe go through those ebbs and
flows, I don't think that thatshould be something that feels
(10:21):
bad to us or untrue to ourselveseven, or at, you know, at worst
it's, it's not that we're notloving people.
Well, I think it's just that ourhearts need different things at
different times fromfriendships.
Yeah.
For sure.
Yeah, I agree.
So I I love that you sharedthat.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I, I think man,friends listening, if you have
never read the gospels throughthis lens of like how to be a
(10:43):
good friend Yeah.
I would challenge you to do itbecause obviously, like I said,
that's not the main thrust, butlike Jesus is such, I think, a
deep well for mm-hmm.
Just that how to human idea.
Yep.
And I think we can learn a lotfrom,
Meghan (10:57):
it's so, yeah.
And the gospels are just sorelational and Yeah.
That's what they are so, so deepin with that,
Kimber (11:02):
so yeah.
Mm-hmm.
I love it.
Well, at the beginning of thissummer, um, since we are kind of
reflecting through this episode,um, I remember that we both
shared in the first episode, Ithink, uh, just the parts of the
series that we were like mostlooking forward to as we Yeah.
Like we're getting started and Iremember, I think we, we both
said two different ones Yeah.
(11:23):
That we were most excited for.
And one of them, was like thisidea of like, friends who
challenge us and that's whatwe're gonna talk about today.
The other one though, wasprayer.
And that's what we kicked offthe series with.
And so I would love, just beforewe get into the, the idea of
friends who challenge us, toreflect a little bit on that,
that prayer idea.
We talked about it a long timeago.
(11:44):
It's been several months sincethen.
How have you seen the Lordgrowing in, just you in the area
of prayer?
Um, since we started thisseries.
Yeah.
And since we had thatconversation back in, like, may
I know, when was that?
Meghan (11:57):
I was, yeah.
Wow.
It feels like forever ago andnot that long ago, A
Kimber (12:01):
million years ago.
Meghan (12:04):
Um, I would say it's grown quite a bit.
Um, I was really challengedafter our conversation too,
again, of just, um, for me,like, because I'm such an
outward processor, it's verymuch easier for me to want to
process with externally, withother people.
And so that's been my bigchallenge.
I think this summer is justtaking that to the Lord first.
(12:25):
Hmm.
Um, before I go to others, otherpeople.
Yeah.
For that and, and taking it toothers is, is important too.
Like there's definitely like,again, like the Holy Spirit and
hearing that from our friends,but my first job is to be.
Obedient to Christ and to be inhis presence first, um, and take
(12:46):
it to him.
So that's been like my challengewith prayer.
It's been really awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
Had lots of opportunities tohave to do it.
Kimber (12:54):
Isn't that how it goes?
Yeah.
I, I feel like for me it's been,um, just a lot of like surrender
of like, you know, what thisshould look like.
What does it look like?
And just like kind of God, likestripping some things back, um,
revealing some things to me.
But what I feel like he keepssaying through prayer to me
(13:18):
lately is just centered on loveand like his love for me.
Because I think, I mean we talkabout it a lot here obviously is
the.
Main topic behind my podcast islike, how to love others well.
Right.
But I think that we can't loveothers well until we receive the
love of God.
And so I think that that is whathe has been trying to teach me
(13:38):
lately is just how to likereally receive that and live in
that.
And, man, it's a lot.
More easy for me tointellectualize that to not,
than to actually feel it, um,and experience it and like, know
it deeply.
And so, I feel like that's beenwhere, what we've been talking
about lately, but that's good.
I, I think it was A powerfulthing to set off the summer, and
(13:58):
I think this theme of prayer isgonna continue in our community
and so into the fall, and I'mexcited for that.
So, yeah, absolutely.
Oh, that's good.
Well, the other one that wetalked about, like I said, um,
in the intro episode of thisseries, uh, which I will say
friends listening, if you arejust now joining us, um, for
whatever reason, if you justhopped onto this episode, I
(14:20):
would encourage you to go backand catch up on this whole
series, um, over the course ofthe fall.
It started back in episode 52.
It's called Being the Friend YouNeed.
And, um, that's where theseconversations started that we're
referencing here.
But that one we talked about inthat episode was just this idea
of, I need a friend whochallenges me or like mm-hmm.
(14:42):
Pushes back, um, is how I say ita lot of the time.
and for me, this idea.
I think comes from just the factthat like, I'm a pretty
strong-willed person.
Like I generally know what Ithink and how I think things
should be, and I don't usuallyhave a problem saying that.
And like, you know, expressingthat, like, I just think that I
(15:02):
can be a strong personality.
And so I've come to realize thatsometimes it seems like that
results in, sometimes my friendswill just like, go along with
things that I say or thinkrather than like pushing back
when I am missing the boat.
Or like, that was dumb likethat, isn't it?
(15:24):
Like, you know, like, I needsomeone, multiple people or you
know, at least one friend in mylife who's gonna like call me on
my stuff.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
And I know that I need that,that's more apparent to me than
ever.
Um, like I need that in my life.
And so over the past few yearsI've been like more intentional
about like, Setting up thosekind of relationships in my
(15:47):
life.
Mm-hmm.
So that I, I know that that'sgonna happen.
but I think that it, that kindof a friendship doesn't happen
naturally quite, um, sure.
And I think you referred to thisidea as like, a friend who stabs
me in the front.
Yes.
Um, do you remember that phrase?
Yes, I remember that, yes.
Yeah.
That was not, was that originalto you or did you hear that from
(16:07):
something?
No,
Meghan (16:07):
no.
It was from, I was trying tothink of it.
I can see the, there's a guy onInstagram who does this amazing,
like artwork.
I'll have to find his profile.
I can like literally see it inmy head.
Yeah.
Um, but he, it was a picturethat he had drawn of like two
like soldiers and the one guyliterally just got like a knife
through the chest of his friend.
(16:27):
Mm-hmm.
And it just says, um, a friendstabs you in the front.
And then he kind of went intolike, what that means a little
bit.
Yeah.
And, and that whole aspect of.
I want a friend that's not gonnabe afraid to tell me my stuff or
what they're seeing in my lifeand call me out on it.
And that, that's like the mostloving thing to do versus stab,
stab me in the back.
And so, right.
(16:49):
and I think again, that's socounterculture to our world of,
a lot of people want friendshipis like, you just go along with
what I'm doing right and be finewith it.
Um, but that's not true.
Like for me, I'm like a realfriend is someone who says, I'm
seeing this in your life.
And like, the fact that theyfeel like they can do that shows
that there's trust and thatthere's a love and careness
(17:09):
there.
Um, that's really important tohave.
And so, um, yeah.
So a friend that stabs you, youwant a friend that stabs you in
the front and, uh, in the back.
Yeah.
Kimber (17:16):
Mm.
I love that.
So how do you think that wecultivate this in our
friendships?
Because yeah, I don't think thatit's natural most to most people
or that idea of like Right.
You know, pushing back in ourfriendships.
And like you said, it'sdefinitely not natural in our
culture that Yeah.
It's telling the truth to ourpeople.
So where do you think we, likestart with this?
(17:37):
What do you see as like beingsome ways to cultivate this in
our relationships?
Meghan (17:42):
So I'm gonna say like, you know, people can come up to
me and tell me whatever theywanna say, but I'm gonna hold
that a lot differently.
Um, if Joe Schmo comes up andsays something to me versus
like, my best friend in thewhole world.
Yeah.
And so there's a level ofrelationship I think and trust
that has to be prettyfoundationally layered, I think,
(18:02):
to get to that point.
And I think that that's aconversation that needs to be
had of like, I.
Want a deep friendship with you.
Again, we've talked about thatbefore of like, I wanna pursue
this with you.
I want someone that's gonna holdme accountable.
Hmm.
Um, and I want to give youpermission to do that and speak
into my life.
Like I think that's somethingthat, because I know for me,
(18:24):
like I might have my opinionsabout things, but I'm not
necessarily always gonnavocalize it to you unless I know
that like, you're okay with me.
Now.
If you're like, yes, straightoff going the rails, I'll
probably like, well, sure, sure.
Right.
You know, but like those littlethings in life or, I mean, it
could be big things too, butjust those kind of more personal
things, I might not Right.
(18:45):
Necessarily feel like, is it myplace to say something until
Yes.
I feel like we're at that spot,and usually that's because we've
had a conversation to put us inthat
Kimber (18:54):
place.
Yeah.
I love that, encouragement toliterally like talk about it,
like articulate permission.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
To the people in your life thatyou would like this to be the
standard of your friendship.
Mm-hmm.
Tell them like, yeah.
And I think for me, this haslooked like, literally saying
like please tell me the truth onthis.
(19:16):
Like, you know, you havepermission to Yep.
Push back and tell me I'mmissing it if I, if I, I just
Meghan (19:22):
did that couple weeks ago.
Yep.
I was like, Hey, you know, Ihad, I had said something and
was like, I, I'm actually askingfor your opinion.
Like, yes, please feel like youcan tell me like, oh, okay.
You know, like, I want to hearwhat you have to say.
Don't feel like you have to holdback on this.
So, yeah.
Um,
Kimber (19:40):
yeah, because it's such that like we've balance, I mean,
we talked about it last episodetoo, of like, we're not our
friend's, holy Spirit.
Right?
Right.
And so I think that if we'regonna.
On one side or the other of theline, we're probably gonna err
on the side of not sayinganything, right.
If we're trying to like, beloving, you know?
but I think there is space forthis, like pushing back,
(20:02):
challenging, stabbing in thefront, in certain relationships.
Because like you also said, Ithink the other thing to
remember here is that this isnot for every relationship.
No, no.
Every friendship.
Meghan (20:14):
Not, there's be some people where I'm like, not
everyone, okay, okay, thanks,bye.
Like, I'm not, not that I don'tcare about, but I'm not gonna
hold that as like tightly
Kimber (20:22):
as I, I would with weight.
Yeah.
Right.
Absolutely.
Because I think it, yeah, it's,it has to be built on that
foundation where you know thatyour heart for each other is
love and flourishing and likeYeah.
More of Jesus.
Like that is the foundation.
And so if that's established andyou've like given permission to
(20:45):
each other, That, that's gonnabe like something that is a part
of your relationship.
Then when it comes through, it'snot like you're not on the
defensive, hopefully as much, oreven if it does put you on the
defensive, you're probably gonnacome down from that a little bit
faster because you remember Oh,like I literally asked them to
do that.
Yeah.
And I know that they love me andI have Exactly.
(21:07):
Yeah.
I know their heart for
Meghan (21:08):
me.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Kimber (21:11):
And I think with that too though, it's like we still
have to make sure that, the waythat we're, I.
Bringing it to someone is justlike cloaked in love.
Oh.
'cause there's like, right,there's this idea, I think too,
where it's like, oh well we'refriends who just are honest with
each other.
And then that turns into justlike, you suck.
Meghan (21:32):
I can say
Kimber (21:32):
anything.
Yeah.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I can say anything and I don'tthink that that is good either.
No, no.
So how do you feel like we kindof walk that line?
Yeah.
Well
Meghan (21:41):
I think the first thing is like when I know I need to
bring something to somebody isprayer.
Mm-hmm.
And is this, is this somethingwhere, this is just my opinion?
Yeah.
Is this just my likeinterpretation?
And maybe that's part of theconversation that you have, but
like, what are my motives inthis?
What are my like really breakingdown?
(22:03):
Like what do I wanna get out ofthis conversation and then
taking that to them.
but I think there's a wholebehind the scenes process that
kind of needs to be happeningwithin your own heart of, yeah.
When I bring this to them, um,I'm kind of like a, I tend to
work through the scenarios in myhead, so it's like, yeah, what
is gonna happen if this goesreally well?
(22:23):
What am I gonna say?
Mm.
Right.
What if this doesn't go well?
Like what?
'cause sometimes, and this hashappened to me, I've been on
both ends of this, like, where Ihave not received it well, um,
or I've said something tosomeone, they haven't taken it
well of like, they gave mepermission and then I did it,
and then they don't really want,they didn't really want it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or I didn't really want to hearit at the time.
(22:45):
Um
Kimber (22:45):
mm-hmm.
So, and that's still the risk,right?
And that's
Meghan (22:48):
still the risk that you take.
But, um, but those have alwaysworked out, you know what I
mean?
That's just another, like, youwork through it or it's like,
oh, I didn't handle that.
Well, we're human.
It's gonna happen.
Um, yeah.
But I think that it's just gottabe so heavily soaked in like the
Holy Spirit of like, what areyour words, grace, love.
How can I be you in this momentand reach my friend, you know?
(23:13):
Yeah.
And then also know that they'regonna make their own decisions
too.
Like again, you're not the HolySpirit.
And so it's kind of one of thosethings where like, I speak this
and then
Kimber (23:21):
you do what you will.
Right.
But I don't control.
Yeah.
Right.
I don't control.
And I think that's where themotive comes back too.
Like what do you want out ofthis?
Like if your motive is just tolike demonstrate how much you
care about them and you want thebest for them, like you love
them, that kind of thing, then Ifeel like that.
Is easier to hold the resultloosely than if your motivation
(23:46):
is like, well they need to fixthis about their lives.
Right.
And
Meghan (23:49):
they need to see it.
They don't my way and do what Iwant, how I wanted them to do
it.
Yeah.
Here's my step-by-step plan tofix your life.
Please take care.
Kimber (23:57):
It's gonna go.
It's not, it's gonna go awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that, that, that adviceis, is so good because yeah, if,
if there is a situation likethis in, in your friendships,
it's, yeah, it's a little bittricky to navigate.
Um, I feel like though, if wewant to cultivate this kind of
(24:17):
thing in a certain friendshipagain,'cause not in all of our
friendships, but in one or twoin our lives that we feel like
have that foundational trust,you feel like you can, could
receive that kind of thing fromthem in a way that would like,
bless your life.
Um, I think you kind of almosthave to like lead the way in
having that kind of conversationonce you've had like, The
(24:39):
conversation that is like, Hey,I wanna be friends who, who have
this kind of a relationship.
And they're like, yeah, thatsounds good.
Like, kind of thing.
Like once you have thatestablished, that like
permission, I think sometimes wehave to like be willing to lead
the way in it.
Yeah.
And so, having that courage tolike, bring this kind of thing
(25:01):
to a friend, I think that is,man, that's nothing, that's not
natural.
That's hard to, no, it's hard.
Meghan (25:07):
even the flip side of like, even if it's like you
don't have something that youfeel like you need to say to
your friend of like, I see thisin your life, but being like,
here's what's happening in myheart and I need you to like
even Yeah.
What do you think?
What do you think?
Like, that might even be easierbecause I know for me it's a
lot, it's been in the past a loteasier to do that versus like,
Me being like, you're, I seethis in your life.
(25:29):
That's been a harder muscle forme to grow.
Like I gotta really, nowherewe're solid before I like Right.
Would go there, do that, wouldgo there.
Um, but, with some things itmight just be, it doesn't have
to be a major life thing, butjust, Hey, like, this
situation's happening.
What do you think?
What are your thoughts?
And then I feel like that kindof starts to get that other
friend to start to be like, oh,okay.
So like, they're like teachable.
(25:50):
They're receptive.
They're, they're not on thedefense.
Like they're asking, they wantthis like fluid like word
sharing our heart and back andforth, how can we back and
forth?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Back and forth.
So I
Kimber (26:00):
think that's a great way to lead the way in it.
Mm-hmm.
And like invite it.
That's what you're doing.
Yeah.
Is you're like, you're askingfor it uhhuh, like you've given
permission, but then also you'reasking for it and so yeah.
I think that can start toestablish it.
I love too that you mentionedthat like, this doesn't have to
always be like a huge lifething, like Right.
I feel like one of the ways thatI see people in my life, Doing
(26:21):
this idea of like challenging meor pushing back a little bit, is
even in smaller things, like ifwe're talking about something
you know, having a discussionabout like a life situation or,
you know, plans for the future,whatever it is.
Like this can even just looklike a friend who says, I don't
know, is that wise or, yeah.
Or like, I don't know.
(26:42):
Like I kind of see it this way,you know?
Yeah.
Like even just having people inour lives that dialogue can look
not just like us agreeing, butlike, kinda actually discussing
like in, in a yeah.
In a relationship.
And honestly, I feel like thatdoesn't happen as much in this
day and age in friendship asmaybe it could, like I think
(27:04):
there's just so much more roomfor like healthy, uh, dialogue
and disagreement that sometimes,like worldly friendship is
afraid of.
Yeah.
'cause again, it's that likewanting to keep that artificial
piece so we just like go alongto get along as opposed to like
challenging each other in our
Meghan (27:21):
conversations.
Right, right.
No, I totally
Kimber (27:23):
agree.
Yeah.
So how have you seen this kindof relationship?
Like, bless your life, would yousay?
Like, why should we, why shouldwe pursue it?
Is it really all it's cracked upto be?
Yeah.
How have you seen this be a goodthing?
Meghan (27:36):
I mean, there's been moments where I'm like, is this
all that this is going up
Kimber (27:39):
to be because it's, this sucks.
Yeah.
It sucks.
Meghan (27:43):
Like it doesn't always feel awesome.
Mm-hmm.
As the give or the receiver,
Kimber (27:48):
it's hard, you know?
Mm-hmm.
It is hard.
Meghan (27:49):
Mm-hmm.
and for me, I would say thatthis is something that's been
new to me since moving to Alaskaof like mm-hmm.
Like, I had really, I would sayI had strong friendships, in
other places, but here's beenthe first time where I feel
like, oh, it's solid.
Like we, we share like we're,we're not afraid to.
(28:10):
And, and, I mean, I've kind ofgone through a season recently
where I've had some people comeup to me and be like, Hey, you
know, I'm seeing this in yourlife and I've had to do it
recently with other, the samefriends, you know, some of'em of
like, Hey, I'm seeing this inyour life.
And so, it has blessed my lifeimmensely.
It's not always fun.
It's not easy.
(28:30):
Um, it brings us closer togetheras friends, because you are
showing me your trust, you'reshowing me your loyalty in that
moment of like, I.
They're not walking away fromme.
And that's for me, like that'smy biggest friendship.
Fear is being rejected and beingunwanted and walking away
without like any explanation.
(28:51):
So for me, I would much ratheryou just keep stabbing me in the
front, do all the things thanstab me in the back and walk
away.
Yeah.
Like, I, you know.
Yeah.
So, for me, like you, you areshowing kind of in a way your
allegiance and your loyalty andfaithfulness to me as a friend,
when you get, you feel like thatyou can speak into that or hear
(29:11):
it from me as well.
Um,
Kimber (29:13):
and so it's been I totally agree with that.
Yeah.
I think it like builds, it justlike builds trust even.
Yeah.
Because like, clearly there's achoice in that moment, where the
friend could just not sayanything and distance.
'cause they see that undesirablething or that thing that they
think is not maybe healthy orlike, uh, leading to life or
(29:34):
whatever, however the situationwould say it.
Um, and they can either like seeit and distance or they can see
it and confront it out of lovefor you.
Mm-hmm.
And a desire for yourrelationship to like be an
honest one.
Right.
And that is, like you said, notthe easy route.
And so when I see someone takethat, whether it's in like a
(29:56):
small thing, like we're having aconversation and my friend is
like, actually I don't thinkthat you're seeing this the
right way.
You know?
Right, right.
And I'm like, oh, like, oh, youcare enough about right.
Not only what we're talkingabout, but also we're
comfortable enough in ourfriendship to like, to have that
push and pull.
Yeah.
(30:16):
And that just like, I love that.
I think that that, makes me feelmore confident in our
relationship.
And so yeah, I think that thatidea of what it actually like
focusing on what does it build,like what does the good that can
come out of this, um, not justRight, the tension of the
moment.
Right.
Um, I think it is can be goodmotivator there as well.
For sure.
(30:36):
For sure.
Man.
Well, I feel like, uh, this is,it can be such like a hard
thing, but I definitely thinkthat, as we're kind of closing
out this series that just this.
the whole call of the series hasbeen to like, go to the hard
places in our friendships tolike go to the uncomfortable
spaces, you know, to go there.
Whether it's like in mourning orit's in, you know, and walking
(31:00):
through grief with our friends.
Like that's a hard space to goto or Yeah.
You know, when, when we weretalking about like, getting into
scripture together, like that'snot a conversation that's just
gonna naturally come up in yourfriendship probably, unless you
like go to that awkward spaceand it's the same, the same is
true I think, for this kind of athing is like, we're not going
(31:20):
to naturally wanna push back inour friendships'cause easier to
just go along to get along, but,right.
Um, the depth that it builds,uh, I think is worth it, both
for the friendship and just forus as people like friendships.
Mm-hmm.
it's like the, what is thesaying about marriage that it's
like, You know, it, it revealsyour, your brokenness.
(31:43):
It's not so that God can work init.
Isn't there a
Meghan (31:45):
saying for it around something or it's like, is there
like, you're like a mirror?
I don't know.
There's, there's probably a ton.
There probably
Kimber (31:52):
are anyway.
But it's that idea that, youknow, marriage reveals our
brokenness and it works to, Ithink, uh, sharpen us or not
sharpen us to, you know, softenour sharp edges because of that,
like friction.
Mm-hmm.
And I think the same is true forour relationship just with our
friends, right?
Like it reveals these parts ofour heart that our broken and
(32:15):
need like a need geo redemptivework.
And so often he wants to workthrough, or he chooses to work
through our relationships withpeople.
And I think that that is, It isreally cool of him because it
just shows how relational ourGod is.
But yeah, it also hurts.
It hurts too.
Oh yeah.
It sucks, I think in many ways.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(32:35):
It's, um, but I see the, I seethe blessing that comes from it
too, so, yeah.
Meghan (32:40):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Huge blessings.
Kimber (32:42):
Well, um, as we kind of wrap up both today's talk and
our series, um, we've just beenclosing out with the challenge
for just how we can put thesethings into practice.
So, Megan, what would you sayfor this idea of like, friends
who challenge us, who push backin little things or in big
things that are, feel more likea stab in the chest.
(33:05):
Mm-hmm.
Um, how do you think that we cantake a step forward in fostering
friendships?
That, you challenge each otherYeah.
And push back in.
Meghan (33:14):
I think so for the challenge, what I thought of was
just having that conversationwith somebody of, Hey, I want
to, um, the permission I wannabe held.
Yeah.
The permission conversation of Iwanna be held accountable are
you at that place in your lifewhere you feel like our
friendship is there?
Where you want that to?
Do you want accountability?
What does that look like for afriendship?
(33:34):
Yeah.
but that, started, I kinda likealways bring it back to yourself
of like, I'm desiring this in mylife.
Yeah.
Because I want to be like Jesus,or I, yeah.
I wanna be a better wife and abetter mom and all these things
and yeah.
Better friend, so can you helpme with those things?
And so have, have the permissionconversation.
Kimber (33:53):
I think that's really good.
And that makes me think of too,like this may not always be in a
peer-to-peer friendship.
Mm-hmm.
Like it could be just aone-sided thing where you don't
have to like necessarily getthem to give permission back.
Like this might be in more oflike a mentor relationship where
you're just saying like, youhave permission to speak into my
life this way, but you're notexpecting them to turn around
(34:16):
and like say the same back toyou necessarily.
Yeah.
Um, and so I think that can,could maybe be a good place to
start too, because I think in apeer-to-peer, like a true peer
relationship, this is harder tocultivate.
It, it, I think it's still, it'sa huge blessing in that kind of
a relationship.
But if you're just starting withlike wanting someone.
Who you know, is gonna like,hold you to this standard or
(34:39):
like call you out on stuff tokind of check you.
Mm-hmm.
If you're just wanting like tostart in that kind of,
territory, uh, I almost mightsay start with like someone
who's more of a mentorrelationship.
That's a great to you becausethat feels like a given.
Like they're already likesomeone who's speaking into your
life.
And so practice articulatingthat there.
Yeah.
Because there's as muchexpectation for it to be
(35:02):
reciprocal.
Um,
Meghan (35:04):
that's really good.
No, that's awesome.
Yeah.
Kimber (35:06):
Yeah.
That's so good.
I think that could be a goodcaveat for that too.
No, I love, that's challenge.
Um, I think that's, That's sogood for us friends.
Um, man, we just wanna thank youMegan, so much for, uh, hanging
out with us this summer.
I have loved it.
Um, and I know that our friendslistening have just benefited so
much from your wisdom and justyour heart for community here.
(35:28):
It's been, it's been a realblessing.
So thank you for being with Oh,no.
Meghan (35:32):
Thank you so much.
No, this has been super, superfun just to be able to do this
with you and talk aboutfriendship, which I love.
And, um mm-hmm.
Yeah, so thank you everyone fortuning in and listening and I
hope you guys just, I'd love tojust hear about the friendships
that are forming and the waysthat Yeah.
You know, either it's new orgrowing deeper with the ones you
got.
You know, just to keep, I loveit.
Keep pushing that
Kimber (35:52):
forward.
So yeah, if you know Megan inperson, you can tell her in
person, but for the rest of us,let's head over to social for
that.
Um, I know that that would be, Ilove hearing those kind of
stories too, so that would beYeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Well, thank you all so much forjoining us for this summer
series.
Um, man, I just pray that youcontinue to take these
(36:13):
conversations to your ownfriendships.
That has been my prayer thiswhole time that these would be
like springboard conversationsthat allow those relationships,
real relationships in your lifeto just grow in ways that honor
God and very closer to Jesus.
So yeah.
I'm so thankful for you guyslistening and just for the
space, so we love you guys.
(36:34):
Same.
Enjoy the last of your summer.
Yes, yes.
We'll talk later.
Bye friends.
Bye.
Friends.
I'm so glad that you could joinme and Megan on the show this
week.
And thank you so much forjoining us for this whole summer
series.
I have.
I loved digging into this topicand I pray that these
(36:56):
conversations spur you on.
To dig into these topics withyour friends too.
If you haven't listened to thewhole series, I invite you to go
back and start at episode 52called being the friend you
need.
Which launched this summerseries and work through them as
we go into the fall.
I'll be taking a bit of a breakfrom the podcast for a while.
So this is the perfectopportunity to get caught up on
(37:18):
old episodes that you missed orwere just so good that you need
another listen.
Especially as I go on a bit of abreak, I want to make sure that
you have signed out to be partof my newsletter crew so that
you can stay up to date oneverything happening at your
sister, Kimber.
You can just visit your sisterkimber.com and subscribe there.
Friends.
Thank you so much for spendingpart of your day with us.
(37:41):
And this community is such ablessing to me, to my
friendships.
And I pray that is for you andyours as well.
Until next time.
It's your sister.
Kimber.
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