December 11, 2025 • 44 mins
AI isn’t replacing real coaches — it’s exposing who was never coaching in the first place. In this electrifying episode, Kellan brings together Johann Nogueira and Sandy Schultz Hessler for a raw, unscripted collision of two worlds: AI-powered systems vs soul-powered human transformation.
Johann argues that AI is the greatest leverage tool humanity has ever created.
Sandy fires back that AI can’t replicate intuition, presence, or the sacred human connection that real coaching requires.
Kellan threads the needle: the question isn’t whether AI will replace coaches.
The question is which coaches actually bring something irreplaceable to the table.
If you’re a coach, creator, or leader trying to understand where you stand in the future of transformation… This conversation is your wake-up call.
- Will AI replace coaches — and which ones?
- The difference between real coaching and scripted coaching
- Johann’s case for AI as leverage, speed, and optimization
- Sandy’s stand for intuition, presence, and inner knowing
- The danger of outsourcing your consciousness to machines
- Why AI exposes weak coaches but amplifies strong ones
- Coaching as human connection vs coaching as information
- How transformation requires soul, not scripts
- The future of coaching: hybrid? human? something new?
- Where coaches should adapt — and where they should refuse to
🔥 Want to build something AI can’t replace — your voice, your impact, your real work? Join the Dream • Build • Write It Webinar, where creators turn truth into movement. Save your free seat: dreambuildwriteit.com
🔥 The future is now. Learn how to lead the transformation in coaching from our guests: Johann Nogueira at businessauthorities.com and Sandy Schultz Hessler at sixminutesdaily.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the show. Tired ofthe hype about living a dream? It's
time for truth. This is theplace for tools, power and real talk,
so you can create the life youdream and deserve your ultimate life.
Subscribe, share, create. Youhave infinite power. Hi there, and
(00:29):
welcome to this episode ofyour ultimate life, the Thursday
edition, which is the oneabout coaches coaching in the rise
of AI. And like all theothers, I've got two guests instead
of my normal one or zero, andwe're talking with experienced and
motivated coaches about thistool or dragon or whatever it is
(00:51):
that's come into the worldwith breakneck speed over the last
two or three years and reallyaccelerating over the last year until
now. Everybody's talking aboutit and everything else. And so we're
going to explore that. And sowelcome to the show. Johan. Welcome
to the show. Sandy.
(01:11):
Thank you, Galle.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, glad to have both ofyou. So we're just going to Talk
for maybe 40, 45 minutes aboutthis topic. Johan, you're on my left
side and I read left to right,so I'll start with you. When you
think about AI as a coach, areyou using it? If you are, what are
(01:32):
you using it for? If you'renot, why not? Like, just tell me
what your relationship is withthis, with this thing right now.
For sure.
So AI as a coach, AI as acoach in our business has changed.
Not only it's changed ourentire business trajectory and therefore
changed our entire lives andprobably has now helped create generational
(01:56):
wealth. So that's where I'mgoing to start off. When, you know,
November 2022, when we firstgot access to ChatGPT, I thought,
wow, this is the coolest thingever. It's all, you know, the whole
world's knowledge synthesizedat my fingertips, and I can do anything.
And as you said before, youknow, it's just growing and expanding.
And, you know, the old versionis last month's version. Time is
(02:21):
collapsing so quickly in ourexpectations. And actually somebody
2022, November, when somebodysaid, oh, I used AI to make me a
picture of a dragon. And now,you know, and they were like, oh,
wow, look, it looks so cute.And now it's, hey, write me a PhD
thesis on so and so. And thenit's like, come on, AI, you can do
better than that. Let's go.You know, our expectations of AI
(02:44):
has increased dramatically.You asked, how has. How do we use
it? Has it changed? And Isaid, it's changed our lives. The
most profound thing that wedid with AI was to tell it literally
everything about our business,about our. And I say our, it's my
business partner and I, aboutwhere we want to be. Where, where
(03:04):
do we want to be at the end ofour lives? What do we want to achieve?
And it came back and itactually reverse engineered everything
that we had to do in order toachieve those goals. And those goals
got bigger. And then it said,hey, did you know that there's other
people in the world who havedone this before and here's their
pathways and this is whatthey've done and achieved. And then
it mapped back, literallyKPIs. And we went, wow, this is interesting.
(03:27):
Then we took that and we said,okay, in order to achieve goal number
one, it. It knows everythingabout my organization, about my teams.
So it's taken all of my teams,it's now assigned KPIs to each team
member. And then I sent thatto my general manager and I said,
hey, what do you think aboutthis? He goes, this is brilliant.
We will hit our goals ifeverybody sticks to it, if the humans
(03:48):
stick to it, right? And so wesaid, hey, every day we're going
to, we're going to go. We didan experiment, we're going to go
AI first. So what the AI tellsyou to do, get that done first because
that's aligned with thebusiness's goals and the results.
We have a team of 20 thatcreate the output of 100 people.
The business is growingexponentially thanks to AI. So, yeah,
(04:10):
I'll pass it back to you, butthat's. I can go into this topic
for, you know, eight hoursabout how we've.
Done well, it's clear thatyou're really excited about it and
that it's made a profoundchange. Is there any aspect of this
in terms of the teams? Likeone of the red flags that people
raise is that, yeah, it can doall stuff faster and better, but
(04:34):
when we let it do all ofeverything, then we as humans miss
the, the process of our ownbecoming that would happen as we
do these things. It does. Isthat any concern or is what you have
it do small enough or mundaneor road enough that that concern
(04:55):
is either irrelevant or bypassed.
So it's so again, being inbusiness for 21 years, if, if we
had this, if I had this 21years ago when I started my journey
through the hardships andthrough everything else would have
been reduced to. I couldachieve everything in my 21 years,
in probably two years with thehelp of AI. And it's not skipping
(05:21):
any of the lessons. It'shelping educate me all day, every
day. This thing is teaching memore and more about what I want to
achieve, how I want to achieveit, examples of who's done it before,
lessons, learning throughtheir mistakes and then creating
our own pathway. And it's nota, it's not a one sided conversation
where it's guiding us, it'syou're putting yourself into it saying,
(05:41):
hey, this is, this is where Iwant to. Actually, no, I don't agree
with that. How about we do itthis way and it keeps iterating as
you're going and you createyour own pathway, not one. Your AI,
my AI, Sandy's AI. They're alldifferent because of the context
that's been programmed intothem in the background from your
goals, from, you know, fromyour aspirations and from your experiences.
(06:03):
So, yeah, cool.
Sandy, what about you? Whatare you using it for, if anything?
And how do you, what is yourrelationship with this, this thing?
So far.
Not quite as enthusiastic asJohan, but I see perfect, amazing
capabilities. You know, partof my work for the last 20 years
(06:29):
has been teachingentrepreneurial boot camps. And included
in that is how do you want tolive your life, not just how do you
want to have a successfulbusiness. So a lot of what I've seen
in AI is so powerful, as Johansaid, for creating the plans for
helping people figure outtheir elevator pitches and the kind
(06:51):
of copy it can write and thenyou can optimize it and make it yours,
but it can bring words thatwould take a much longer time to
figure out. Is powerful andbeautiful and we laugh and we use
it. But then I step back and alot of my work is what do you want
your life to look like? How doyou want all of those different roles
(07:13):
that you play to weavetogether into a thriving, healthy,
connected life? And in thatcase, AI is not as useful because
it really requires somebody tobe quiet. It really requires someone
to look inside. And while AIcan help bring up, if you put in
(07:35):
all your writings oreverything else, some really good
questions. The biggest pause Iget with people and my business is
called six minutes daily.Because about a decade ago in teaching,
all this leadership stuff, Istepped back and said, let's figure
out how to have a handful ofminutes. You could have five minutes
(07:56):
or seven, I don't care. Butsix is a very magical number to me.
To just put your feet on theground and center, to just breathe
in and have intentions andgratitude. And often people will
come in coaching or in classesand say, I wanted to, but I didn't
have time. And the biggesttears were totally fine. Just tell
(08:18):
me where you're running sofast to. And so my worry about AI
is the speed and efficiency isgreat, but just making sure we step
back and take the time of whatdoes effectiveness mean for each
of us individually? And that'sa lot of the work I do. And that
gets into nature connectionand inner connection and spirit connection
(08:40):
and all of that stuff. So. Soyes and yeah.
Yes and is fine. So what areyou using it for? I get the. I get.
And I share the observationbecause the context, when I say 95%
of coaches won't be able tomake a living, then that says automatically,
(09:01):
well, what are the other 5%going to be doing? That's so different.
And it has to do with theelements that AI can't do, which
we'll talk about again in aminute. But what are you doing with
it? What do you use it for?
So we look back when peoplestart developing their living vision,
(09:24):
when they talk about,particularly with business or with
a new product idea, how do youget the language down? That's yours,
but better. That's yourdreams. I think that's where AI can
come in. If people havespecific challenges on patterns that
they have on communicationissues, you can put all that into
(09:47):
AI and it can help youpractice. I mean, I. I see it as
incredibly supportivetactically. I see it as incredibly
supportive at looking at allsorts of different models that might
be more relevant to me versusJohan versus you, in terms of how
we get over some of our fears.And that's great because my brain's
(10:09):
getting old and it can'tremember all of the specifics that
AI can. I think that's wherewe use it. But we still step back
to how do we pause, take thattime, expand into what we want, into
how we're feeling, into whatour bodies are sensing. And all of
that stuff is not as relevantwith AI. I mean, that's the humanness,
(10:35):
that's the nature, that's thecosmos, that's the. The bigger piece.
And I guess the last piece Iwould say is. I think there are ways
that AI can tremendously helpbring about financial wealth in a
way that we wouldn't have seenall the pieces, which is awesome.
(10:56):
And I also go back to, youknow, things I learned decades ago
from Stephen Covey. If youreally learn to lean into what you
love, that money will come andAI will be a tool to help bring it
about. But money in and ofitself has never been shown to bring
joy, happiness and Healthwithout all of the other internal
pieces.
(11:17):
You know, the CEO of Nvidia, Isaid something that was quoted in
an article. He said that thecreation of this staggering wealth
is just getting started. Hesaid, we're about $200 billion worth
of investment in what's goingto turn out to be a 4 or $5 trillion
industry, which is like 10%,somewhere between 5 and 10% of the
(11:39):
possibility or less has evenbegun to be realized. So the opportunity
to create. Unbelievable wealthis there. And you know, Johan, in
compressing 20 years into two.And your words, but better Sandy,
that you said, you know, I'veexperienced certainly all of that
in doing the thousand hours ofresearch and so forth. Like, do you
(12:05):
see anything in this monsteror this benevolent puff the magic
dragon, whatever it is thatyou. That can. And I'm talking about
in the context of coaching,the coaching world. Do you see anything
that concerns you?
Concerns me? No. Enhances,yes. So I mentor a lot of people
(12:31):
and through the mentorship,it's. And you know, it's people starting
off through to people who runtens of millions of dollars, you
know, revenue per year, etc.And it's enhancement. It enhances
what they're doing. It helpsme enhance my message and convey
it to them. So, for example, Ihad somebody who said, hey, you know,
(12:55):
I'm going through this. Andthey, they literally wrote, I'm talking
about paragraphs andparagraphs of what they're going
through. And yes, this mightbe a little bit of cheating, but
I'm sure we've all done itwhere I said, wow, that's a lot of
information. And I'm talkingvoicemails about everything that
they're going through. And Ididn't know how to deal with it in
(13:15):
a certain way. So I took thatinformation and I said, hey, this
is what's going on right nowwith my friend and I really want
this outcome. Can you help meengineer this outcome? And it went
through it, synthesized allthe information and said, oh, cool.
Picked up on these certainpoints and said, lead the conversation
this way, which I wouldn'thave thought of. And I went, oh,
wow, that's great. And so ithelped me help that person and now
(13:36):
they're on a great path towhere they are. So enhancement of
who we are with thetechnology, it makes us better, makes
us able to help these people quicker.
So I hear that. And that isone way to use it, I guess. Are you,
you know, the thought thatmost coaches won't be able to make
(13:57):
a living is where I startedwith this idea. And so I see the
great gutting, as it were, ofthe coaching industry. And the reason
I do is because my experienceof both coaching schools and coaches
by and large is they talkabout things that they've read somewhere,
(14:17):
formulas, frameworks, tools,books, programs, and don't carry
personal experience or truth.And up to now you've been able to
sort of limp along and make alittle difference and a little money
doing that. And that entirething is going to disappear because
AI is going to do it betterand faster and in cuter language
and way better than you evercould dream about. And so you've
(14:39):
got nothing really to offer.So in that context, I see how you're
using it to help. What do youthink about that?
So I was going to say, is thata bad thing? Is that a bad thing
that the people who have notlived it and who have not, who don't
practice it and who haven'tbuilt successful businesses are there
(15:02):
advising people? This isactually one of my, it's one of my
pet hates in the coachingbusiness. I'm in, I'm in a Facebook
group and on this Facebookgroup I remember seeing this post
which just made me go, what isgoing on? And it's, you know, this
lady said, I've finished my, Ifinally got my first client and everyone's
(15:25):
there. She had 500 commentssaying, Congratulations, this is
amazing, this is the best.Wow. And then somebody said, so what
are you going to do now? Shegoes, I'm going to quit my job. My
job is a janitor. And now I'mgoing to be advising a financial
firm on how to do theirmarketing, do their business acquisition,
all these things which is frombooks that she's read. Not actually,
(15:45):
she's never done this before.And now she's in charge of a million
dollar budget with somebodywho she's built trust with, who now
she gets to dictate and puttheir money into a certain pathway
which, you know. I'm gonna goon a gut feel again.
This is a fear I could go onin that. Nothing against, you know,
(16:09):
a 26 year old or a 28 year oldwho did it, but you know, you and
I, I mean, I'm 62, I've runbusinesses, I've built businesses,
I've been up all night withkids. Like there is something to
the wisdom of experience. And.I think it is a. A huge vulnerability
(16:31):
in the coaching industry. Andyou know, Kellerman Kellen and I
laugh that I rarely callmyself a coach, even though it's,
you Know what I do, I support,I build. But because of that.
Yeah, you go, sorry, continue.
(16:52):
I think, you know, a lot of myclients, as I said, you know, they're,
they're startup clients,they're entrepreneurs. But I also
run a program for young adultsfrom the south and west sides of
Chicago for special needskids, for a lot of people in the
nonprofit world reaching outand doing things across the globe.
(17:16):
And a concern I have, and ahuge strength is this AI that has
the capability to, to optimizeand build efficiencies to those of
us who are blessed enough to,you know, be able to get education
and blah, blah, blah, blah. Tonot leave so many behind. And, you
(17:38):
know, I was with someoneearlier today on Zoom. Who'S had
a really tough life. I mean,trauma is an issue and two little
kids and trying to make it.
And.
Again, I think AI can help,but that human connection that work
(17:59):
on how do we support traumaand overcoming trauma and building
that strength. And to me, whatthey need is human connection. What
they need is to learn trust.And. You know, again, I'm biased,
but I don't think deeplytrusting and having a relationship
with a computer is the same.
You're biased, Johan, you're biased.
(18:23):
We're all biased. And we'rehere to have a great conversation
and, you know, the meeting ofthe minds which allows different,
different ideas to be shared.So Sandy, on that. So I had, you
know, I've had six men whowere about to take their lives. It's
the worst thing that you cando. And they were not going to talk
to their friends. They werenot going to talk to their spouses,
(18:44):
they weren't going to talk totheir family. They had, they had
decided that this is what theywere going to do. They were calling
to say their final goodbyes.And I said, you don't need to talk
to me about this. And I knew Icould read between the lines as to
where this has gone. By theway, this is over the last three
months, not just six people inthe last three days. And I said,
hey, can, can I send yousomething? And just, just, just have
(19:05):
a chat with this bot. And theycame back. They're now still here.
We've shook, shaked hands andthey've said, thank you, that saved
my life. They, they weren'tnot in a position to be. They didn't
feel like any human could everunderstand them. So that because
humans come with. Asaltruistic as we are, as we want
to be, we come with judgment,we come with bias. And there's shame
(19:29):
associated with, you know,hey, I, you know, I have this business
and it's failing. I don't knowwhat to do. I think I'm just gonna,
you know, reset and respawnsomewhere else. Sorry, that's a gaming
terminology. And so that's,That's. That's to do with that. So
I think that that creates awhole. We'll talk about that in a
second. But I don't want tolose the train of thought that Kellen
started off with, which is,hey, what happens to all the people
(19:50):
who've never actually reallydone business? And you know what
happens to those guys? And Isaid, hey, let's. Let's let them
go and find their own geniussomewhere else. Because the people
who are real business coachesor real coaches, they're the ones
who are going to accelerate.They're going to be the most dangerous
people in a good way, andthey're going to add the most to
(20:11):
humanity over the next decadebecause they will be completely enhanced.
Their messages will resonate.They will know how to get in front
of those right people. Theywill be able to help more people.
In the next year, two years,five years, than they have in their
last 40 years because of thetechnology that we have.
So there's two or threethreads going on at the same time
(20:33):
here. One is the ability toenhance and grow those who know how
to use a tool. That's likesaying, we're going to give Michelangelo
and his cohorts a betterchisel. Okay, good. And they're gonna
go do more cool stuff withtheir better chisel. On the other
hand, what we were alsotalking about, and you said, so what
(20:55):
if they're gone? I agree withyou. My thesis that 95% of coaches
won't be able to make aliving. I agree. The answer is good.
You shouldn't be coachinganyway. And there is a differentiator
between those that will stillbe able to do it and not. And that's
a second sort of thread. Andthe third thread that you raised
(21:15):
also is the ability of thesethings to talk to people with empathetic
and powerful and good languagewithout the fear of judgment. That's
why people like talking tobartenders instead of friends, because
there's less judgment sort ofthere. So that's a different thing.
And, Sandy, you raised anotherthing too, which is the truth of
the power of human connection.Because we ourselves, we are our
(21:40):
collective experience andhumanness. So I agree with all of
those things in theirdifferent spaces, we've got to keep
a little track of them. I wantto share something with you guys,
and that is, as I was doingthe research to write this book.
I did an analysis of 11existing coaching models. That's
not all of them. And I said,how good are you at. How good are
(22:04):
each of these models atachieving their outcomes? And it
did whatever researcher didand came back and gave me a table
where they're strong, wherethey're weak and everything. And
then I ask, how vulnerable arethey to AI in terms of what you can
do and what you'll be able todo over the next year or two? And
I was, you know, I had myhorizon of Christmas of next year
and it gave me a bunch ofstuff. And. And it was. It was a
(22:26):
sort of a grim outlook. And.And so then I said to it, okay, fine,
you're doing all this stuffreally well. What do you suck at?
What are you terrible at? Whatcan't you do? What will you be terrible
and not be able to do at all?And it gave me a list of things and
most of them had to do. Sandy,with exactly what you were talking
about, the truth of humanconnection and everything. But the
(22:47):
final thing that it said to methat stuck at me like everything,
it just said, I can't bleed.And so, you know, that was it. And
I thought, okay, so clearlycoaches that are left are going to
have to be those who are thetruth, who embody the truth of what
(23:12):
they teach. And whether it isI've run a successful business or
10 and therefore my knowledgeis embodied, or whether it's as Sandy,
as you've talked about, thewisening of years and experience
and trauma and difficultywhere you refuse to be ruined, but
instead chose to be refined,brings an authenticity and power
(23:36):
that words alone cannot, willnever duplicate because of the truth
of energetics and connectionand all that stuff. So if you sort
of mix all that together.Sandy, I'll start with you this time.
What do you think is thepowerful will be the powerful differentiator
(24:00):
for people that really want tostay in the, you know, people encouragement
business or blind spotprotection service or obstacle obliteration
business or anxietyannihilation business? I got like
13 of those funny names that Iuse for the. For coaching, and I
don't have the list in frontof me or I tell you all of them because
(24:20):
they're pretty funny. Butwhat's going to be the differentiator?
What's going to really matterthat's left?
You know, I think it's the keythat you brought up and I laughed
to myself over these lastcouple of years in terms of my teaching
and my being and itsauthenticity that. To that stuff.
(24:41):
So if you talk about the needto center oneself, if you talk about
the need to, you know, learnhow to slow down a minute so you
can see more pieces in thatminute, if you talk about really
learning how to look insomeone's eyes and connect and feel
that ability to bleed that wehave the unique ability to, as living
(25:04):
sentient beings, if you talkabout connecting with nature and
opening up all of our sensesthe way that our ancestors knew how
to do in ways that we've oftenlong forgotten, we have to do it.
Like, we can't just get up inthe morning and be five minutes behind
and run and grab our coffeeand zoom. And I think those are the
(25:28):
people. And again, whateverthe success metrics are of businesses.
So there's no value judgment.But if we're talking about things,
we have to live them.
We're talking about we have tolive them. You finish? It's not.
What?
Oh, it's not always easy. Atleast for me, you know it's not.
(25:51):
I'll do that in a minute.Johan, it looks like you're exploding
to say something, so go ahead.
No, no, no. Prompt me. Ask methe question.
Prompt me.
That's funny.
Well, the. Prompt me. Allright, let me engineer a prompt here
for a sec. So, you know, whenyou think about what chat does, well,
including the fact that theanonymity is a positive thing, there
(26:14):
are studies that show thatsome people would rather talk to
a bot than a therapist becauseof the judgment that we come with.
And some of that stuff. Evengiven all that, the question is,
what is left. If I say 95% aregoing to be out of business or won't
be able to make a living? Andthe reason is because they've lived
(26:35):
their whole lives talkingabout a thing instead of from the
place of embodied truth. Andall of that's going to be gone because
chatty will do it faster andbetter in a heartbeat, and that'll
only get worse. And so what'sleft is that. So my question to you
is, what's left for real coaching?
Yep. Great. Great question.And I. I did a presentation to some
(26:57):
of the top CEOs here inAustralia. Now, when I went into
this con, when I went intothis presentation, I thought that
they would be really impressedwith showing them how we can now
condense 50 people's work intoone person. And, you know, the efficiencies,
the robotics, how their. Theirbusinesses are going to be completely
autonomous. The, thefranchises are going to run without
(27:19):
any humans. And I actually hadthem. They were crying. And one of
the guys, he's one of thebiggest. He runs one of the biggest
companies in the, in the room.I said, why are you crying? He said,
what happens to the 800families that I'm feeding every week?
And I was like, whoa, I needto. You know, I've missed the mark
(27:39):
here because I thought I wastalking about efficiency and, you
know, creating, you know,creating more profits and all that,
but these guys actually careabout their people. And unfortunately,
the way the world is going, ifyou look at it like this is my fingers
on the pulse with this allday, every day. Robotics. Yesterday,
they announced that now you'regoing to have little robots in your
(28:00):
home. They cost $20,000.You'll be able to talk to them. They're
your companion. It becomespart normal life. What happens to
those 95% of people who won'thave a job? It's actually not just
across the coaching industry,it's across most industries that's
going to happen. And becauseof robotics and AI powered together,
and it's. Back when we firstgot technology, I'm going to go back
(28:24):
to caveman days. We had thefirst person to invent a spear. It
used to take 20 people to pulldown a bore. Let's just imagine that.
And now one guy with the spearjust goes, hey, guess what? It's
gone. And now they're like,hey, what do I do with the rest of
my day that I had allocated togoing and hunting a boar? They went
and started doing other thingsand creating different, you know,
(28:45):
different. Different parts ofsociety, which then led to civilization.
But that's a great story fortechnology. But that's when it's
technology. This is AI. It'scompletely different. It's not just
the Industrial Revolution,it's not mobile phone technology.
It's.
It's actually changing the waywe live. And so it's a massive shift.
(29:05):
What happens to those 95% ofpeople? No one actually knows. There
is a big debate with the toppeople in the entire world. What
do they do with all of thesepeople who don't. Who won't have
a real purpose in society? AndI'm not trying to offend anybody,
but, hey, you know, the otherday, ChatGPT announced that it's
(29:26):
got. You can click a buttonand now it can go and reconcile all
your zero files. And eightpeople in one company just got wiped
out like that because they'redoing the Bookkeeping. And what do
they do now? They've done thatfor 20 years. They're going to go
and get some other skill. Butwhich skill are they going to get
that's not going to be takenout by AI? So in answer to your question.
I don't have the answer.
(29:50):
Yeah, please.
It's that I ask every clientteam organization I work with and
it starts with what issuccessful? And you know, and then
why. So what's success behindthat success and what's. So I guess
my, my question in coachingand then I know you expanded it to
(30:13):
others is who are we buildingthis world for? So like I, I get
confused in. There's adifference between technology that
enhances our ability to liveand technology that wip out and makes
(30:33):
us irrelevant. And. Yeah, Imean. I don't know.
So in answer to your question,it comes down to cultures, it comes
down to values. So we're goingway bigger than just the coaching
industry here. We're talkingabout civilization as a whole. And
(30:54):
you know, different culturessee this as a different, different,
different way of how theirculture is gonna, their civilization
is gonna evolve.
Then all of those things forthat twenty thousand dollar robot.
Then the economies don't.
And, and that's the thingthat, that's why the governments
(31:16):
have to introduce universalbasic income so everybody will be
able to. And then all theprices of everything goes down because
you no longer have to pay a,an Uber driver, not even a cab driver
anymore. An Uber driverbecause the cars are autonomous.
Your vehicle that you own isgoing to be. You press a button on
your mobile phone and now itbecomes a robo taxi that's going
around making you money. Your,your robot. Actually yes, you can
(31:40):
pay $20,000 or you can pay,they said $500 yesterday. It costs
$2 now to run. It's going todo all the maintenance it gives you,
it gives you more time. Sothat's why I said bring it back to
culture and values. What doessuccess mean? Success means time
and freedom. That's what inthe western world, that's what we
all work towards. Hey, I have,I own my time. I'm not owned by anybody.
(32:01):
I can do what I want when Iwant that success in the western
world. And so we get more timeby having these things all done for
us. And in the eastern worldthere's different, you know, the
different cultures, different, different.
Measures of success which onlyreinforces the opportunity for coaching
to in a creative way help allof that. Time be used healthfully
(32:26):
in a, in a deep purposeful.Values driven way.
So, so let me do somethinghere. Go ahead, finish your sentence.
No, finish your thoughts, Andy.
Oh, just. Who knows how itcomes back that coaching could evolve
in hearing Johan's versionover the next, you know, 10, 20 years
that this need then to havethe teachers, to have the coaches
(32:49):
to really support. What do wedo with time, how do we use it effectively,
how we reconnect with eachother and you know, in my world,
giving the time to, to go backto creating that all and wonder with
nature, like all, all sorts ofpossibilities could come up.
So let's think about it thisway. Go ahead, Johan.
(33:11):
I was going to say there,there's a story and I'm going to
summarize it. It, it's, it'susually a five minute story. I'm
going to summarize it into oneminute. This man, he goes to. Let's,
let's pick a country. He goesto Mexico and he goes, he goes on
a holiday and he goes outfishing at 6 in the morning and he's
the guy who's taking him outon the boat says okay, cool, let's
go. And they go, they catch afish and he catches this big beautiful
(33:32):
fish. They bring it back,they've caught two. And he says,
hey, so what are you going todo the rest of the day? Because he's,
he's achieved his thing, hecaught his fish. He said, oh well,
my work is done for the day,I've got my fish, I'm going to go
home, I'm going to cook it up,cook breakfast, have a sleep in the
afternoon, in the evening I'mgoing to go dancing with my family
and my friends and chill outwith the, with the locals. And he
goes, no, no, no, look, it'sonly, it's only seven o'.
(33:53):
Clock.
You've got the whole day aheadof you. What are you doing? You're
wasting your whole day. Youshould now go and go and do more,
catch more fish, sell it atthe market, make some money. Because
what do I do then? He goes,well, after you make that money,
you can now hire another boatand another, try another crew and
get them to all go fishing. Hegoes, oh cool, what do I do then?
He goes, now you can have afleet of boats fishing and you know,
(34:13):
you build it up and then youcan supply all the Walmarts and all
the, you know, etc. And hegoes, what do I do?
Then?
He goes, then you can have a,you can move to New York and you
can have a penthouse apartmentbecause what do you do, then he goes,
and then you can finally, youknow, sell your company and then
come back to Mexico and retireand then go fishing in the morning
and then go chill out withyour friends in the afternoon, have
a nap, and then go dancing at nighttime.
(34:34):
That comes back to your justdoing work in Africa. And that story
is. Is very well told on thedifference between cultures.
I call that the story of theMexican fisherman. So I love it and
I've heard it before. And youdid a good job summarizing it. So
here's what I want to thinkabout with you guys. All of those
(34:57):
things are possible. And thetruth is, we have become so enamored
with an external definition ofsuccess, an external of having more
things, right? And so we havecreated the need for busyness to
have more money, to have morethings. We now look at a possibility
in coaching and otherindustries to say, what if all of
(35:19):
the activities that took like150 years ago, it took all morning
to make breakfast because youhad to go do this and do that in
order to get the, you know, gomilk the cow and do all the things
you're going to do to makebreakfast. Now it's all in the fridge,
and you do it in 10 minutes.This is a, you know, an exponential
extension of that. And yet wehave perpetually created more. Busyness
(35:43):
to fill the space. And theobservation that I would make is
that you can never get enoughof what you don't need because what
you don't need won't satisfyyou. And so this gets back to the
thing you said, Sandy, whichis on the essence of who we are as
people in any culture, likethat definition of what matters is
(36:10):
where we're going to go withthis and whether coaching is. That's
why the essence of being to meis so important, because when it
stops being, the striving formore, more money, faster, better,
what is there to do? And tome, just given my life experience
(36:30):
and trajectory and the numberof clients that I've worked with,
we're built to love and serveeach other. And if all of this efficiency
allowed Johan and Sandy andKellen and others to spend time in
true connection and love andservice, not only would we solve
(36:50):
the world's problems withhunger and everything else, we'd
fix all of that. And so if youlook at it, and we pull it all back
from Skynet and get rid of allthe problems and get back to the
question about coaching, theonly thing that's going to be left
for the 5% of coaches thatmatter are those who can help the
(37:11):
individuals they work withidentify and create those things
of true meaning and value. Andthe only way we're going to be able
to do that is if we are theembodiment of the things that we
teach because we have walkedthat path of getting to what's actually
(37:34):
important and then beingwilling to share life as it occurs
there. And to me that, and I'mnot saying right, as a possibility
that transcends it, gets tothe bottom of why, why, why, why?
It's because it is in ournature to be creative, to love. And
(37:56):
that's why my words are love,create, serve. That's what drives
my life. My 3 goal of 300million in my coaching practice and
the fact that we can make 1million or 10 million or 50 million
is an interesting data point.And the only thing it does for me
is it allows me to have abigger reach to talk to people in
Australia and Mexico at thesame moment. So when you think about
(38:23):
pulling this back to thecoaching industry, although I love
the speculation about thewhole universe, what final thoughts
do you have that you wouldtell someone? Like, I just got off
a call with a lady I did notknow who, I didn't know this, she'd
been binge watching I don'tknow how many videos of mine on something
(38:44):
or something somewhere. Shegot a scheduling, she made an appointment
and her big question was shewas thinking about going into coaching
and wanted to know what Ithought. And she was looking for
a nudge as to whether or notthat was a good idea. And my answer
(39:04):
to her was don't, unlessyou're willing to go all in and become
the truth that you want toteach. So if you each had a thought
about what you would tellcoaches to think about for the next
year or two or three abouttheir own place in the industry.
(39:32):
How to use this amazinginfinite game changing tool, what
to look out for, what wouldyou say? And I don't care who goes
first.
Sandy first, ladies first.
Well, thank you. Again. I hadasked the question, what does success
(39:53):
look like for that person? Isit, you know, I have an old client
who called me the other day,how do I get a million dollar client?
And I said, you know what, I'mnot your person because that's not
where my energy is going. Likemy energy is how am I going to make
a million dollar difference, abillion dollar difference in people's
(40:14):
health. But. I think. Youknow, I go back to you saying it
used to take all morning tomake breakfast and now you can, you
know, make it in a smoothieand a bullet in 30 seconds with as
much nutrition, maybe. Ithink, going back to. And this conversation's
(40:34):
so inspiring me to say,depending on what coaches want to
do, wouldn't it be beautifulto spend all morning making breakfast?
Like, how. And I don't meanto, you know, that we have to go
get the wheat from the chaff,but how do we have that connection?
What do we want life to looklike and then have the financial
(40:58):
wherewithal to do that? And ifcoaches are willing, like you said,
to say, what's my gift andcreativity and who's my audience
and how am I going to lean into be that authentic person, then
I'd be like, absolutely. Ifit's about how can I go out there?
Because I used to be a janitorand now I'm going to go, you know,
(41:21):
help finance. Not that theydon't have that ability, but I don't
know that it's as authentic.
Johan, what do you think?
I think for coaches, they arethe ones who have lived it, breathed
it, who are all in, as yousaid, they're going to be the most
dangerous people in a goodway, because they will be able to
(41:42):
make the most amount ofimpact. People who are threatened
by the technology, it's. It'sa. Let's. Let's look at a hardware
store. It's a drill, but yougo into the hardware store, how many
different types of drills, howmany different types of jobs? It's
your brain that will say, hey,this is what you need. This is why.
This is how. This is theexamples and being that trusted person.
(42:03):
At the end of the day, youknow, there's. There's so many AIs
available. They all havedifferent skill sets, but the humans
that you trust, they're goingto be there with you for the long
term. So, yeah, be. Be the. Bethe person who knows it all and is
there to guide the people.
I want to thank both of youfor taking time to share your thoughts
(42:26):
and the fact that we wanderedoff into the future of Skynet. The
good version, hopefully, notthe bad version. That's the name
of the sentient AI that tookover the world in the Terminator
movies, in case anyone'sforgotten, Skynet. But anyway, thank
you for sharing all of thatwith me. Johan, thanks for being
here today.
Thank you. It's a pleasure andan honor.
(42:48):
Sandy, thank you for beinghere. Yeah, Sandy, thanks for being
here today.
Thank you.
So I want to encourage all ofyou that are listening to this you
know, you see differentperspectives. You see the core of
the human experience explored.You see the insane amount of untapped
(43:11):
efficiency and capability. Andso whether you're a coach or not,
and this podcast, the Thursdayedition, is mostly for coaches. But
even if you're exploring whatis the maximum truth of what you
want your life to be like, thequestion Sandy kept raising, we are
at the cusp right now ofmaking it available for you to have
(43:33):
that thing instead of be itsomething that you think about in
the future. I mean, you alwayscreated your life. We do that now.
But the technology is going toexist that there won't be any more
excuses. And so you're goingto need to think about what you really
want out of life. And I urgeyou to listen to this a couple of
times and explore what thingsare there that will let you create
(43:57):
your ultimate life.
Open your heart than this time around.
Right here, right now, youropportunity for massive growth is
right in front of you. Everyepisode gives you practical tips
and practices that will changeeverything. If you want to know more,
(44:22):
go to kellenfluermedia.com ifyou want more free tools, go here.
Your ultimate life casubscribe. Subscribe.
Share.
Welcome to the show. Tired ofthe hype about living a dream? It's
time for truth. This is theplace for tools, power and real talk,
so you can create the life youdream and deserve your ultimate life.
Subscribe, share, create. Youhave infinite power. Hi there, and
(00:29):
welcome to this episode ofyour ultimate life, the Thursday
edition, which is the oneabout coaches coaching in the rise
of AI. And like all theothers, I've got two guests instead
of my normal one or zero, andwe're talking with experienced and
motivated coaches about thistool or dragon or whatever it is
(00:51):
that's come into the worldwith breakneck speed over the last
two or three years and reallyaccelerating over the last year until
now. Everybody's talking aboutit and everything else. And so we're
going to explore that. And sowelcome to the show. Johan. Welcome
to the show. Sandy.
(01:11):
Thank you, Galle.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, glad to have both ofyou. So we're just going to Talk
for maybe 40, 45 minutes aboutthis topic. Johan, you're on my left
side and I read left to right,so I'll start with you. When you
think about AI as a coach, areyou using it? If you are, what are
(01:32):
you using it for? If you'renot, why not? Like, just tell me
what your relationship is withthis, with this thing right now.
For sure.
So AI as a coach, AI as acoach in our business has changed.
Not only it's changed ourentire business trajectory and therefore
changed our entire lives andprobably has now helped create generational
(01:56):
wealth. So that's where I'mgoing to start off. When, you know,
November 2022, when we firstgot access to ChatGPT, I thought,
wow, this is the coolest thingever. It's all, you know, the whole
world's knowledge synthesizedat my fingertips, and I can do anything.
And as you said before, youknow, it's just growing and expanding.
And, you know, the old versionis last month's version. Time is
(02:21):
collapsing so quickly in ourexpectations. And actually somebody
2022, November, when somebodysaid, oh, I used AI to make me a
picture of a dragon. And now,you know, and they were like, oh,
wow, look, it looks so cute.And now it's, hey, write me a PhD
thesis on so and so. And thenit's like, come on, AI, you can do
better than that. Let's go.You know, our expectations of AI
(02:44):
has increased dramatically.You asked, how has. How do we use
it? Has it changed? And Isaid, it's changed our lives. The
most profound thing that wedid with AI was to tell it literally
everything about our business,about our. And I say our, it's my
business partner and I, aboutwhere we want to be. Where, where
(03:04):
do we want to be at the end ofour lives? What do we want to achieve?
And it came back and itactually reverse engineered everything
that we had to do in order toachieve those goals. And those goals
got bigger. And then it said,hey, did you know that there's other
people in the world who havedone this before and here's their
pathways and this is whatthey've done and achieved. And then
it mapped back, literallyKPIs. And we went, wow, this is interesting.
(03:27):
Then we took that and we said,okay, in order to achieve goal number
one, it. It knows everythingabout my organization, about my teams.
So it's taken all of my teams,it's now assigned KPIs to each team
member. And then I sent thatto my general manager and I said,
hey, what do you think aboutthis? He goes, this is brilliant.
We will hit our goals ifeverybody sticks to it, if the humans
(03:48):
stick to it, right? And so wesaid, hey, every day we're going
to, we're going to go. We didan experiment, we're going to go
AI first. So what the AI tellsyou to do, get that done first because
that's aligned with thebusiness's goals and the results.
We have a team of 20 thatcreate the output of 100 people.
The business is growingexponentially thanks to AI. So, yeah,
(04:10):
I'll pass it back to you, butthat's. I can go into this topic
for, you know, eight hoursabout how we've.
Done well, it's clear thatyou're really excited about it and
that it's made a profoundchange. Is there any aspect of this
in terms of the teams? Likeone of the red flags that people
raise is that, yeah, it can doall stuff faster and better, but
(04:34):
when we let it do all ofeverything, then we as humans miss
the, the process of our ownbecoming that would happen as we
do these things. It does. Isthat any concern or is what you have
it do small enough or mundaneor road enough that that concern
(04:55):
is either irrelevant or bypassed.
So it's so again, being inbusiness for 21 years, if, if we
had this, if I had this 21years ago when I started my journey
through the hardships andthrough everything else would have
been reduced to. I couldachieve everything in my 21 years,
in probably two years with thehelp of AI. And it's not skipping
(05:21):
any of the lessons. It'shelping educate me all day, every
day. This thing is teaching memore and more about what I want to
achieve, how I want to achieveit, examples of who's done it before,
lessons, learning throughtheir mistakes and then creating
our own pathway. And it's nota, it's not a one sided conversation
where it's guiding us, it'syou're putting yourself into it saying,
(05:41):
hey, this is, this is where Iwant to. Actually, no, I don't agree
with that. How about we do itthis way and it keeps iterating as
you're going and you createyour own pathway, not one. Your AI,
my AI, Sandy's AI. They're alldifferent because of the context
that's been programmed intothem in the background from your
goals, from, you know, fromyour aspirations and from your experiences.
(06:03):
So, yeah, cool.
Sandy, what about you? Whatare you using it for, if anything?
And how do you, what is yourrelationship with this, this thing?
So far.
Not quite as enthusiastic asJohan, but I see perfect, amazing
capabilities. You know, partof my work for the last 20 years
(06:29):
has been teachingentrepreneurial boot camps. And included
in that is how do you want tolive your life, not just how do you
want to have a successfulbusiness. So a lot of what I've seen
in AI is so powerful, as Johansaid, for creating the plans for
helping people figure outtheir elevator pitches and the kind
(06:51):
of copy it can write and thenyou can optimize it and make it yours,
but it can bring words thatwould take a much longer time to
figure out. Is powerful andbeautiful and we laugh and we use
it. But then I step back and alot of my work is what do you want
your life to look like? How doyou want all of those different roles
(07:13):
that you play to weavetogether into a thriving, healthy,
connected life? And in thatcase, AI is not as useful because
it really requires somebody tobe quiet. It really requires someone
to look inside. And while AIcan help bring up, if you put in
(07:35):
all your writings oreverything else, some really good
questions. The biggest pause Iget with people and my business is
called six minutes daily.Because about a decade ago in teaching,
all this leadership stuff, Istepped back and said, let's figure
out how to have a handful ofminutes. You could have five minutes
(07:56):
or seven, I don't care. Butsix is a very magical number to me.
To just put your feet on theground and center, to just breathe
in and have intentions andgratitude. And often people will
come in coaching or in classesand say, I wanted to, but I didn't
have time. And the biggesttears were totally fine. Just tell
(08:18):
me where you're running sofast to. And so my worry about AI
is the speed and efficiency isgreat, but just making sure we step
back and take the time of whatdoes effectiveness mean for each
of us individually? And that'sa lot of the work I do. And that
gets into nature connectionand inner connection and spirit connection
(08:40):
and all of that stuff. So. Soyes and yeah.
Yes and is fine. So what areyou using it for? I get the. I get.
And I share the observationbecause the context, when I say 95%
of coaches won't be able tomake a living, then that says automatically,
(09:01):
well, what are the other 5%going to be doing? That's so different.
And it has to do with theelements that AI can't do, which
we'll talk about again in aminute. But what are you doing with
it? What do you use it for?
So we look back when peoplestart developing their living vision,
(09:24):
when they talk about,particularly with business or with
a new product idea, how do youget the language down? That's yours,
but better. That's yourdreams. I think that's where AI can
come in. If people havespecific challenges on patterns that
they have on communicationissues, you can put all that into
(09:47):
AI and it can help youpractice. I mean, I. I see it as
incredibly supportivetactically. I see it as incredibly
supportive at looking at allsorts of different models that might
be more relevant to me versusJohan versus you, in terms of how
we get over some of our fears.And that's great because my brain's
(10:09):
getting old and it can'tremember all of the specifics that
AI can. I think that's wherewe use it. But we still step back
to how do we pause, take thattime, expand into what we want, into
how we're feeling, into whatour bodies are sensing. And all of
that stuff is not as relevantwith AI. I mean, that's the humanness,
(10:35):
that's the nature, that's thecosmos, that's the. The bigger piece.
And I guess the last piece Iwould say is. I think there are ways
that AI can tremendously helpbring about financial wealth in a
way that we wouldn't have seenall the pieces, which is awesome.
(10:56):
And I also go back to, youknow, things I learned decades ago
from Stephen Covey. If youreally learn to lean into what you
love, that money will come andAI will be a tool to help bring it
about. But money in and ofitself has never been shown to bring
joy, happiness and Healthwithout all of the other internal
pieces.
(11:17):
You know, the CEO of Nvidia, Isaid something that was quoted in
an article. He said that thecreation of this staggering wealth
is just getting started. Hesaid, we're about $200 billion worth
of investment in what's goingto turn out to be a 4 or $5 trillion
industry, which is like 10%,somewhere between 5 and 10% of the
(11:39):
possibility or less has evenbegun to be realized. So the opportunity
to create. Unbelievable wealthis there. And you know, Johan, in
compressing 20 years into two.And your words, but better Sandy,
that you said, you know, I'veexperienced certainly all of that
in doing the thousand hours ofresearch and so forth. Like, do you
(12:05):
see anything in this monsteror this benevolent puff the magic
dragon, whatever it is thatyou. That can. And I'm talking about
in the context of coaching,the coaching world. Do you see anything
that concerns you?
Concerns me? No. Enhances,yes. So I mentor a lot of people
(12:31):
and through the mentorship,it's. And you know, it's people starting
off through to people who runtens of millions of dollars, you
know, revenue per year, etc.And it's enhancement. It enhances
what they're doing. It helpsme enhance my message and convey
it to them. So, for example, Ihad somebody who said, hey, you know,
(12:55):
I'm going through this. Andthey, they literally wrote, I'm talking
about paragraphs andparagraphs of what they're going
through. And yes, this mightbe a little bit of cheating, but
I'm sure we've all done itwhere I said, wow, that's a lot of
information. And I'm talkingvoicemails about everything that
they're going through. And Ididn't know how to deal with it in
(13:15):
a certain way. So I took thatinformation and I said, hey, this
is what's going on right nowwith my friend and I really want
this outcome. Can you help meengineer this outcome? And it went
through it, synthesized allthe information and said, oh, cool.
Picked up on these certainpoints and said, lead the conversation
this way, which I wouldn'thave thought of. And I went, oh,
wow, that's great. And so ithelped me help that person and now
(13:36):
they're on a great path towhere they are. So enhancement of
who we are with thetechnology, it makes us better, makes
us able to help these people quicker.
So I hear that. And that isone way to use it, I guess. Are you,
you know, the thought thatmost coaches won't be able to make
(13:57):
a living is where I startedwith this idea. And so I see the
great gutting, as it were, ofthe coaching industry. And the reason
I do is because my experienceof both coaching schools and coaches
by and large is they talkabout things that they've read somewhere,
(14:17):
formulas, frameworks, tools,books, programs, and don't carry
personal experience or truth.And up to now you've been able to
sort of limp along and make alittle difference and a little money
doing that. And that entirething is going to disappear because
AI is going to do it betterand faster and in cuter language
and way better than you evercould dream about. And so you've
(14:39):
got nothing really to offer.So in that context, I see how you're
using it to help. What do youthink about that?
So I was going to say, is thata bad thing? Is that a bad thing
that the people who have notlived it and who have not, who don't
practice it and who haven'tbuilt successful businesses are there
(15:02):
advising people? This isactually one of my, it's one of my
pet hates in the coachingbusiness. I'm in, I'm in a Facebook
group and on this Facebookgroup I remember seeing this post
which just made me go, what isgoing on? And it's, you know, this
lady said, I've finished my, Ifinally got my first client and everyone's
(15:25):
there. She had 500 commentssaying, Congratulations, this is
amazing, this is the best.Wow. And then somebody said, so what
are you going to do now? Shegoes, I'm going to quit my job. My
job is a janitor. And now I'mgoing to be advising a financial
firm on how to do theirmarketing, do their business acquisition,
all these things which is frombooks that she's read. Not actually,
(15:45):
she's never done this before.And now she's in charge of a million
dollar budget with somebodywho she's built trust with, who now
she gets to dictate and puttheir money into a certain pathway
which, you know. I'm gonna goon a gut feel again.
This is a fear I could go onin that. Nothing against, you know,
(16:09):
a 26 year old or a 28 year oldwho did it, but you know, you and
I, I mean, I'm 62, I've runbusinesses, I've built businesses,
I've been up all night withkids. Like there is something to
the wisdom of experience. And.I think it is a. A huge vulnerability
(16:31):
in the coaching industry. Andyou know, Kellerman Kellen and I
laugh that I rarely callmyself a coach, even though it's,
you Know what I do, I support,I build. But because of that.
Yeah, you go, sorry, continue.
(16:52):
I think, you know, a lot of myclients, as I said, you know, they're,
they're startup clients,they're entrepreneurs. But I also
run a program for young adultsfrom the south and west sides of
Chicago for special needskids, for a lot of people in the
nonprofit world reaching outand doing things across the globe.
(17:16):
And a concern I have, and ahuge strength is this AI that has
the capability to, to optimizeand build efficiencies to those of
us who are blessed enough to,you know, be able to get education
and blah, blah, blah, blah. Tonot leave so many behind. And, you
(17:38):
know, I was with someoneearlier today on Zoom. Who'S had
a really tough life. I mean,trauma is an issue and two little
kids and trying to make it.
And.
Again, I think AI can help,but that human connection that work
(17:59):
on how do we support traumaand overcoming trauma and building
that strength. And to me, whatthey need is human connection. What
they need is to learn trust.And. You know, again, I'm biased,
but I don't think deeplytrusting and having a relationship
with a computer is the same.
You're biased, Johan, you're biased.
(18:23):
We're all biased. And we'rehere to have a great conversation
and, you know, the meeting ofthe minds which allows different,
different ideas to be shared.So Sandy, on that. So I had, you
know, I've had six men whowere about to take their lives. It's
the worst thing that you cando. And they were not going to talk
to their friends. They werenot going to talk to their spouses,
(18:44):
they weren't going to talk totheir family. They had, they had
decided that this is what theywere going to do. They were calling
to say their final goodbyes.And I said, you don't need to talk
to me about this. And I knew Icould read between the lines as to
where this has gone. By theway, this is over the last three
months, not just six people inthe last three days. And I said,
hey, can, can I send yousomething? And just, just, just have
(19:05):
a chat with this bot. And theycame back. They're now still here.
We've shook, shaked hands andthey've said, thank you, that saved
my life. They, they weren'tnot in a position to be. They didn't
feel like any human could everunderstand them. So that because
humans come with. Asaltruistic as we are, as we want
to be, we come with judgment,we come with bias. And there's shame
(19:29):
associated with, you know,hey, I, you know, I have this business
and it's failing. I don't knowwhat to do. I think I'm just gonna,
you know, reset and respawnsomewhere else. Sorry, that's a gaming
terminology. And so that's,That's. That's to do with that. So
I think that that creates awhole. We'll talk about that in a
second. But I don't want tolose the train of thought that Kellen
started off with, which is,hey, what happens to all the people
(19:50):
who've never actually reallydone business? And you know what
happens to those guys? And Isaid, hey, let's. Let's let them
go and find their own geniussomewhere else. Because the people
who are real business coachesor real coaches, they're the ones
who are going to accelerate.They're going to be the most dangerous
people in a good way, andthey're going to add the most to
(20:11):
humanity over the next decadebecause they will be completely enhanced.
Their messages will resonate.They will know how to get in front
of those right people. Theywill be able to help more people.
In the next year, two years,five years, than they have in their
last 40 years because of thetechnology that we have.
So there's two or threethreads going on at the same time
(20:33):
here. One is the ability toenhance and grow those who know how
to use a tool. That's likesaying, we're going to give Michelangelo
and his cohorts a betterchisel. Okay, good. And they're gonna
go do more cool stuff withtheir better chisel. On the other
hand, what we were alsotalking about, and you said, so what
(20:55):
if they're gone? I agree withyou. My thesis that 95% of coaches
won't be able to make aliving. I agree. The answer is good.
You shouldn't be coachinganyway. And there is a differentiator
between those that will stillbe able to do it and not. And that's
a second sort of thread. Andthe third thread that you raised
(21:15):
also is the ability of thesethings to talk to people with empathetic
and powerful and good languagewithout the fear of judgment. That's
why people like talking tobartenders instead of friends, because
there's less judgment sort ofthere. So that's a different thing.
And, Sandy, you raised anotherthing too, which is the truth of
the power of human connection.Because we ourselves, we are our
(21:40):
collective experience andhumanness. So I agree with all of
those things in theirdifferent spaces, we've got to keep
a little track of them. I wantto share something with you guys,
and that is, as I was doingthe research to write this book.
I did an analysis of 11existing coaching models. That's
not all of them. And I said,how good are you at. How good are
(22:04):
each of these models atachieving their outcomes? And it
did whatever researcher didand came back and gave me a table
where they're strong, wherethey're weak and everything. And
then I ask, how vulnerable arethey to AI in terms of what you can
do and what you'll be able todo over the next year or two? And
I was, you know, I had myhorizon of Christmas of next year
and it gave me a bunch ofstuff. And. And it was. It was a
(22:26):
sort of a grim outlook. And.And so then I said to it, okay, fine,
you're doing all this stuffreally well. What do you suck at?
What are you terrible at? Whatcan't you do? What will you be terrible
and not be able to do at all?And it gave me a list of things and
most of them had to do. Sandy,with exactly what you were talking
about, the truth of humanconnection and everything. But the
(22:47):
final thing that it said to methat stuck at me like everything,
it just said, I can't bleed.And so, you know, that was it. And
I thought, okay, so clearlycoaches that are left are going to
have to be those who are thetruth, who embody the truth of what
(23:12):
they teach. And whether it isI've run a successful business or
10 and therefore my knowledgeis embodied, or whether it's as Sandy,
as you've talked about, thewisening of years and experience
and trauma and difficultywhere you refuse to be ruined, but
instead chose to be refined,brings an authenticity and power
(23:36):
that words alone cannot, willnever duplicate because of the truth
of energetics and connectionand all that stuff. So if you sort
of mix all that together.Sandy, I'll start with you this time.
What do you think is thepowerful will be the powerful differentiator
(24:00):
for people that really want tostay in the, you know, people encouragement
business or blind spotprotection service or obstacle obliteration
business or anxietyannihilation business? I got like
13 of those funny names that Iuse for the. For coaching, and I
don't have the list in frontof me or I tell you all of them because
(24:20):
they're pretty funny. Butwhat's going to be the differentiator?
What's going to really matterthat's left?
You know, I think it's the keythat you brought up and I laughed
to myself over these lastcouple of years in terms of my teaching
and my being and itsauthenticity that. To that stuff.
(24:41):
So if you talk about the needto center oneself, if you talk about
the need to, you know, learnhow to slow down a minute so you
can see more pieces in thatminute, if you talk about really
learning how to look insomeone's eyes and connect and feel
that ability to bleed that wehave the unique ability to, as living
(25:04):
sentient beings, if you talkabout connecting with nature and
opening up all of our sensesthe way that our ancestors knew how
to do in ways that we've oftenlong forgotten, we have to do it.
Like, we can't just get up inthe morning and be five minutes behind
and run and grab our coffeeand zoom. And I think those are the
(25:28):
people. And again, whateverthe success metrics are of businesses.
So there's no value judgment.But if we're talking about things,
we have to live them.
We're talking about we have tolive them. You finish? It's not.
What?
Oh, it's not always easy. Atleast for me, you know it's not.
(25:51):
I'll do that in a minute.Johan, it looks like you're exploding
to say something, so go ahead.
No, no, no. Prompt me. Ask methe question.
Prompt me.
That's funny.
Well, the. Prompt me. Allright, let me engineer a prompt here
for a sec. So, you know, whenyou think about what chat does, well,
including the fact that theanonymity is a positive thing, there
(26:14):
are studies that show thatsome people would rather talk to
a bot than a therapist becauseof the judgment that we come with.
And some of that stuff. Evengiven all that, the question is,
what is left. If I say 95% aregoing to be out of business or won't
be able to make a living? Andthe reason is because they've lived
(26:35):
their whole lives talkingabout a thing instead of from the
place of embodied truth. Andall of that's going to be gone because
chatty will do it faster andbetter in a heartbeat, and that'll
only get worse. And so what'sleft is that. So my question to you
is, what's left for real coaching?
Yep. Great. Great question.And I. I did a presentation to some
(26:57):
of the top CEOs here inAustralia. Now, when I went into
this con, when I went intothis presentation, I thought that
they would be really impressedwith showing them how we can now
condense 50 people's work intoone person. And, you know, the efficiencies,
the robotics, how their. Theirbusinesses are going to be completely
autonomous. The, thefranchises are going to run without
(27:19):
any humans. And I actually hadthem. They were crying. And one of
the guys, he's one of thebiggest. He runs one of the biggest
companies in the, in the room.I said, why are you crying? He said,
what happens to the 800families that I'm feeding every week?
And I was like, whoa, I needto. You know, I've missed the mark
(27:39):
here because I thought I wastalking about efficiency and, you
know, creating, you know,creating more profits and all that,
but these guys actually careabout their people. And unfortunately,
the way the world is going, ifyou look at it like this is my fingers
on the pulse with this allday, every day. Robotics. Yesterday,
they announced that now you'regoing to have little robots in your
(28:00):
home. They cost $20,000.You'll be able to talk to them. They're
your companion. It becomespart normal life. What happens to
those 95% of people who won'thave a job? It's actually not just
across the coaching industry,it's across most industries that's
going to happen. And becauseof robotics and AI powered together,
and it's. Back when we firstgot technology, I'm going to go back
(28:24):
to caveman days. We had thefirst person to invent a spear. It
used to take 20 people to pulldown a bore. Let's just imagine that.
And now one guy with the spearjust goes, hey, guess what? It's
gone. And now they're like,hey, what do I do with the rest of
my day that I had allocated togoing and hunting a boar? They went
and started doing other thingsand creating different, you know,
(28:45):
different. Different parts ofsociety, which then led to civilization.
But that's a great story fortechnology. But that's when it's
technology. This is AI. It'scompletely different. It's not just
the Industrial Revolution,it's not mobile phone technology.
It's.
It's actually changing the waywe live. And so it's a massive shift.
(29:05):
What happens to those 95% ofpeople? No one actually knows. There
is a big debate with the toppeople in the entire world. What
do they do with all of thesepeople who don't. Who won't have
a real purpose in society? AndI'm not trying to offend anybody,
but, hey, you know, the otherday, ChatGPT announced that it's
(29:26):
got. You can click a buttonand now it can go and reconcile all
your zero files. And eightpeople in one company just got wiped
out like that because they'redoing the Bookkeeping. And what do
they do now? They've done thatfor 20 years. They're going to go
and get some other skill. Butwhich skill are they going to get
that's not going to be takenout by AI? So in answer to your question.
I don't have the answer.
(29:50):
Yeah, please.
It's that I ask every clientteam organization I work with and
it starts with what issuccessful? And you know, and then
why. So what's success behindthat success and what's. So I guess
my, my question in coachingand then I know you expanded it to
(30:13):
others is who are we buildingthis world for? So like I, I get
confused in. There's adifference between technology that
enhances our ability to liveand technology that wip out and makes
(30:33):
us irrelevant. And. Yeah, Imean. I don't know.
So in answer to your question,it comes down to cultures, it comes
down to values. So we're goingway bigger than just the coaching
industry here. We're talkingabout civilization as a whole. And
(30:54):
you know, different culturessee this as a different, different,
different way of how theirculture is gonna, their civilization
is gonna evolve.
Then all of those things forthat twenty thousand dollar robot.
Then the economies don't.
And, and that's the thingthat, that's why the governments
(31:16):
have to introduce universalbasic income so everybody will be
able to. And then all theprices of everything goes down because
you no longer have to pay a,an Uber driver, not even a cab driver
anymore. An Uber driverbecause the cars are autonomous.
Your vehicle that you own isgoing to be. You press a button on
your mobile phone and now itbecomes a robo taxi that's going
around making you money. Your,your robot. Actually yes, you can
(31:40):
pay $20,000 or you can pay,they said $500 yesterday. It costs
$2 now to run. It's going todo all the maintenance it gives you,
it gives you more time. Sothat's why I said bring it back to
culture and values. What doessuccess mean? Success means time
and freedom. That's what inthe western world, that's what we
all work towards. Hey, I have,I own my time. I'm not owned by anybody.
(32:01):
I can do what I want when Iwant that success in the western
world. And so we get more timeby having these things all done for
us. And in the eastern worldthere's different, you know, the
different cultures, different, different.
Measures of success which onlyreinforces the opportunity for coaching
to in a creative way help allof that. Time be used healthfully
(32:26):
in a, in a deep purposeful.Values driven way.
So, so let me do somethinghere. Go ahead, finish your sentence.
No, finish your thoughts, Andy.
Oh, just. Who knows how itcomes back that coaching could evolve
in hearing Johan's versionover the next, you know, 10, 20 years
that this need then to havethe teachers, to have the coaches
(32:49):
to really support. What do wedo with time, how do we use it effectively,
how we reconnect with eachother and you know, in my world,
giving the time to, to go backto creating that all and wonder with
nature, like all, all sorts ofpossibilities could come up.
So let's think about it thisway. Go ahead, Johan.
(33:11):
I was going to say there,there's a story and I'm going to
summarize it. It, it's, it'susually a five minute story. I'm
going to summarize it into oneminute. This man, he goes to. Let's,
let's pick a country. He goesto Mexico and he goes, he goes on
a holiday and he goes outfishing at 6 in the morning and he's
the guy who's taking him outon the boat says okay, cool, let's
go. And they go, they catch afish and he catches this big beautiful
(33:32):
fish. They bring it back,they've caught two. And he says,
hey, so what are you going todo the rest of the day? Because he's,
he's achieved his thing, hecaught his fish. He said, oh well,
my work is done for the day,I've got my fish, I'm going to go
home, I'm going to cook it up,cook breakfast, have a sleep in the
afternoon, in the evening I'mgoing to go dancing with my family
and my friends and chill outwith the, with the locals. And he
goes, no, no, no, look, it'sonly, it's only seven o'.
(33:53):
Clock.
You've got the whole day aheadof you. What are you doing? You're
wasting your whole day. Youshould now go and go and do more,
catch more fish, sell it atthe market, make some money. Because
what do I do then? He goes,well, after you make that money,
you can now hire another boatand another, try another crew and
get them to all go fishing. Hegoes, oh cool, what do I do then?
He goes, now you can have afleet of boats fishing and you know,
(34:13):
you build it up and then youcan supply all the Walmarts and all
the, you know, etc. And hegoes, what do I do?
Then?
He goes, then you can have a,you can move to New York and you
can have a penthouse apartmentbecause what do you do, then he goes,
and then you can finally, youknow, sell your company and then
come back to Mexico and retireand then go fishing in the morning
and then go chill out withyour friends in the afternoon, have
a nap, and then go dancing at nighttime.
(34:34):
That comes back to your justdoing work in Africa. And that story
is. Is very well told on thedifference between cultures.
I call that the story of theMexican fisherman. So I love it and
I've heard it before. And youdid a good job summarizing it. So
here's what I want to thinkabout with you guys. All of those
(34:57):
things are possible. And thetruth is, we have become so enamored
with an external definition ofsuccess, an external of having more
things, right? And so we havecreated the need for busyness to
have more money, to have morethings. We now look at a possibility
in coaching and otherindustries to say, what if all of
(35:19):
the activities that took like150 years ago, it took all morning
to make breakfast because youhad to go do this and do that in
order to get the, you know, gomilk the cow and do all the things
you're going to do to makebreakfast. Now it's all in the fridge,
and you do it in 10 minutes.This is a, you know, an exponential
extension of that. And yet wehave perpetually created more. Busyness
(35:43):
to fill the space. And theobservation that I would make is
that you can never get enoughof what you don't need because what
you don't need won't satisfyyou. And so this gets back to the
thing you said, Sandy, whichis on the essence of who we are as
people in any culture, likethat definition of what matters is
(36:10):
where we're going to go withthis and whether coaching is. That's
why the essence of being to meis so important, because when it
stops being, the striving formore, more money, faster, better,
what is there to do? And tome, just given my life experience
(36:30):
and trajectory and the numberof clients that I've worked with,
we're built to love and serveeach other. And if all of this efficiency
allowed Johan and Sandy andKellen and others to spend time in
true connection and love andservice, not only would we solve
(36:50):
the world's problems withhunger and everything else, we'd
fix all of that. And so if youlook at it, and we pull it all back
from Skynet and get rid of allthe problems and get back to the
question about coaching, theonly thing that's going to be left
for the 5% of coaches thatmatter are those who can help the
(37:11):
individuals they work withidentify and create those things
of true meaning and value. Andthe only way we're going to be able
to do that is if we are theembodiment of the things that we
teach because we have walkedthat path of getting to what's actually
(37:34):
important and then beingwilling to share life as it occurs
there. And to me that, and I'mnot saying right, as a possibility
that transcends it, gets tothe bottom of why, why, why, why?
It's because it is in ournature to be creative, to love. And
(37:56):
that's why my words are love,create, serve. That's what drives
my life. My 3 goal of 300million in my coaching practice and
the fact that we can make 1million or 10 million or 50 million
is an interesting data point.And the only thing it does for me
is it allows me to have abigger reach to talk to people in
Australia and Mexico at thesame moment. So when you think about
(38:23):
pulling this back to thecoaching industry, although I love
the speculation about thewhole universe, what final thoughts
do you have that you wouldtell someone? Like, I just got off
a call with a lady I did notknow who, I didn't know this, she'd
been binge watching I don'tknow how many videos of mine on something
(38:44):
or something somewhere. Shegot a scheduling, she made an appointment
and her big question was shewas thinking about going into coaching
and wanted to know what Ithought. And she was looking for
a nudge as to whether or notthat was a good idea. And my answer
(39:04):
to her was don't, unlessyou're willing to go all in and become
the truth that you want toteach. So if you each had a thought
about what you would tellcoaches to think about for the next
year or two or three abouttheir own place in the industry.
(39:32):
How to use this amazinginfinite game changing tool, what
to look out for, what wouldyou say? And I don't care who goes
first.
Sandy first, ladies first.
Well, thank you. Again. I hadasked the question, what does success
(39:53):
look like for that person? Isit, you know, I have an old client
who called me the other day,how do I get a million dollar client?
And I said, you know what, I'mnot your person because that's not
where my energy is going. Likemy energy is how am I going to make
a million dollar difference, abillion dollar difference in people's
(40:14):
health. But. I think. Youknow, I go back to you saying it
used to take all morning tomake breakfast and now you can, you
know, make it in a smoothieand a bullet in 30 seconds with as
much nutrition, maybe. Ithink, going back to. And this conversation's
(40:34):
so inspiring me to say,depending on what coaches want to
do, wouldn't it be beautifulto spend all morning making breakfast?
Like, how. And I don't meanto, you know, that we have to go
get the wheat from the chaff,but how do we have that connection?
What do we want life to looklike and then have the financial
(40:58):
wherewithal to do that? And ifcoaches are willing, like you said,
to say, what's my gift andcreativity and who's my audience
and how am I going to lean into be that authentic person, then
I'd be like, absolutely. Ifit's about how can I go out there?
Because I used to be a janitorand now I'm going to go, you know,
(41:21):
help finance. Not that theydon't have that ability, but I don't
know that it's as authentic.
Johan, what do you think?
I think for coaches, they arethe ones who have lived it, breathed
it, who are all in, as yousaid, they're going to be the most
dangerous people in a goodway, because they will be able to
(41:42):
make the most amount ofimpact. People who are threatened
by the technology, it's. It'sa. Let's. Let's look at a hardware
store. It's a drill, but yougo into the hardware store, how many
different types of drills, howmany different types of jobs? It's
your brain that will say, hey,this is what you need. This is why.
This is how. This is theexamples and being that trusted person.
(42:03):
At the end of the day, youknow, there's. There's so many AIs
available. They all havedifferent skill sets, but the humans
that you trust, they're goingto be there with you for the long
term. So, yeah, be. Be the. Bethe person who knows it all and is
there to guide the people.
I want to thank both of youfor taking time to share your thoughts
(42:26):
and the fact that we wanderedoff into the future of Skynet. The
good version, hopefully, notthe bad version. That's the name
of the sentient AI that tookover the world in the Terminator
movies, in case anyone'sforgotten, Skynet. But anyway, thank
you for sharing all of thatwith me. Johan, thanks for being
here today.
Thank you. It's a pleasure andan honor.
(42:48):
Sandy, thank you for beinghere. Yeah, Sandy, thanks for being
here today.
Thank you.
So I want to encourage all ofyou that are listening to this you
know, you see differentperspectives. You see the core of
the human experience explored.You see the insane amount of untapped
(43:11):
efficiency and capability. Andso whether you're a coach or not,
and this podcast, the Thursdayedition, is mostly for coaches. But
even if you're exploring whatis the maximum truth of what you
want your life to be like, thequestion Sandy kept raising, we are
at the cusp right now ofmaking it available for you to have
(43:33):
that thing instead of be itsomething that you think about in
the future. I mean, you alwayscreated your life. We do that now.
But the technology is going toexist that there won't be any more
excuses. And so you're goingto need to think about what you really
want out of life. And I urgeyou to listen to this a couple of
times and explore what thingsare there that will let you create
(43:57):
your ultimate life.
Open your heart than this time around.
Right here, right now, youropportunity for massive growth is
right in front of you. Everyepisode gives you practical tips
and practices that will changeeverything. If you want to know more,
(44:22):
go to kellenfluermedia.com ifyou want more free tools, go here.
Your ultimate life casubscribe. Subscribe.
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.