May 20, 2025 • 33 mins
You can text us here with any comments, questions, or thoughts!
In this episode, Kemi welcomes Dr. Allison Wu. Dr. Wu is Principal Investigator of the Wunderfull Lab. She is a clinician-researcher board certified in pediatric gastroenterology and nutrition as well as obesity medicine. Her research focuses on epidemiology and health services research in pediatric nutrition and obesity. She completed her fellowship in Pediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology & Nutrition at Boston Children’s Hospital and the Harvard-wide Pediatric Health Services Research Fellowship at Mass General Hospital for Children. She is also an alumnus of our Get That Grant® coaching program!
Together, they explore Dr. Wu's unique journey that intertwines her love for science, nutrition, and working with children, shaped by her family's background in academia and the restaurant business. Join the conversation as Dr. Wu shares her experiences with coaching, her insights on how supportive environments can foster growth, confidence, and collaboration and the importance of grant writing in creating meaningful change.
Conversation Highlights:
- Navigating maternity leave and career transitions
- The role of coaching in professional growth
- Building community and collaboration in academia
- The importance of intentionality in career development
Loved this convo? Please go find Dr. Wu on LinkedIn to show her some love!
🎯 Inspired by Dr. Wu’s journey?
Applications are now open for the July 2025 cohort of Get That Grant®! If you’re ready to build confidence, clarity, and community as you secure funding for your work, we’d love to support you.
👉🏾 Join the Waitlist + Apply Now to take the next step. Spots are limited!
And if you'd like to learn more foundational career navigation concepts for women of color in academic medicine and public health, sign up for our KD Coaching Foundations Series: www.kemidoll.com/foundations.
REMINDER: Your Unapologetic Career Podcast now releases episode every other week! Can't wait that long? Be sure you are signed up for our newsletter (above) where there are NEW issues every month!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Nowhere else did I feel had a curated group and I
didn't know any of these women.
And even from the first call andintroductions and the questions
being asked and the coaches, Iwas like, oh, this is totally
different.
I have never met a group ofpeople like this in one setting.
UNKNOWN (00:23):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (00:24):
Right.
So it's that magic group andcohesiveness that you
immediately feel a bond and youlearn from one another.
And I mean, I can get more intothat as well, but it was the
people in the program.
And then as soon as I starteddoing the workbook activities, I
was like, oh, I've never donethis before.
Oh, this is new too.
This is new exercise, new tools,new frameworks.
SPEAKER_04 (00:54):
Hello, hello.
You are listening to YourUnapologetic Career.
Being a woman of color facultyin academic medicine who wants
to make a real difference withyour career can be tough.
Listen, these systems are notbuilt for us, but that doesn't
mean we can't make them work forus.
In each episode, I'll be takinga deep dive into one core growth
(01:17):
strategy so you can gainconfidence and effectiveness in
pursuing the dream career youworked so hard to achieve.
All you have to do is tune in toyour unapologetic career with
me, your host Kemi Dole,physician, surgeon, researcher,
coach, and career strategist foran always authentic, sometimes a
(01:39):
little raw, but unapologeticallyempowering word.
I keep it real for you because Iwant you to win.
Hello, hello, folks.
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so excited to be here.
(02:00):
I'm not alone, which you alreadyknow if you clicked on the
episode.
I am with an absolutelywonderful person, but also
somebody who's special to mebecause she has the exact same
name of one of like my bestfriends.
And it's so weird because thevery first time her application
came through, I was like, well,what is Allie doing applying to
the program?
(02:20):
I was so confused.
And then I realized, oh, this isa different Allison Wu.
But it does mean that literallyevery single time I see her
name, for whatever reason,whether it's like I'm reviewing
client information or I'mlooking through progress notes
or anything like that.
Like anytime I see your name, Ijust grin because you remind me
of my friend.
(02:41):
Welcome to the podcast, Dr.
Allison Wu.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
So you are not my friend.
Although shout out to Allie.
I love you.
You know, she's also a doctor.
I
SPEAKER_01 (02:52):
do.
I've seen her because of Googlesearch, of course, who hasn't?
And she, she seems great.
And
SPEAKER_04 (02:59):
she's great.
But you know, she's one L,you're two Ls.
So that alone is enough of adistinction.
Anyway, why don't you tell thefolks your specialty, where you
work and what good work you'redoing in the world?
SPEAKER_01 (03:10):
Sure.
I am a pediatricgastroenterology, nutrition and
obesity medicine clinicianresearcher at Boston Children's
Hospital.
So I am focused on deliveringcompassionate GI nutrition and
obesity medicine care tochildren and leading impactful
epidemiology and health servicesresearch as PI of the Wonderful
(03:33):
Lab.
And the Wonderful Lab is a playon words because of my last
name, Wu.
And we conduct nutritionresearch dedicated to helping
kids reach their full health.
SPEAKER_04 (03:44):
I love that so much.
Well, I love it for manyreasons, but were you somebody
who started out knowing, I knowI'm going to work with kids and
then you figured out it was GIand obesity and nutrition and
other things?
Or was it like, I'm interestedin GI and then you realize kids
are way better than adults?
Like, I'm just curious.
SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
That's a really great question.
I literally come from abackground in academic science.
So my parents are former, nowretired, academic research
scientists.
So I always knew I lovedscience, but I actually didn't
know that I wanted to be aphysician.
I didn't really have anyimmediate family who were
physicians.
I just knew I loved science.
(04:20):
So when I started kind of theundergrad process of exploring
things, I actually didn't knowthat I wanted to go into
medicine, but I knew I lovedscience.
Did a couple things for a fewyears and then actually came
back to apply to medical schooland my dad is a former
gastroenterology researcher sothat was funny and and my
(04:41):
grandparents when they came tothe united states in the 80s
they opened a restaurant sothere was that food element and
then there was a science elementand then merging them together
was my interest in food asscience and food is medicine
yeah and so when it came to kidsi always I've always loved
working with kids.
(05:02):
And from the beginning, I thinkkind of both were probably
seeped into my early upbringingbecause I grew up with jobs that
were babysitting, campcounselor, tutoring, kind of all
of the classic, you know, somepeople who got service jobs at
different retail, but I alwaysloved the camp counselor taking
(05:26):
care of kids.
I was even a tour guide for highschool students internationally.
So I worked many different jobsbefore going into medicine, and
that's what I think has helpedme solidify my career path.
SPEAKER_04 (05:36):
Yes, I love that.
It's such a beautiful meld of,like you said, all your
different influences, includingintergenerational influences of
being around the food and therestaurant business.
And I love that.
But I was just like you.
All my money came from caringfor children.
Every job I had from 12 till Iwent to college and then started
working in the engineeringlibrary was child focused.
(05:58):
So I totally get it.
It's such a beautiful area.
Okay, so let's get into a littlebit of where were you in your
career when you started toconsider coaching and what was
it working for you?
So
SPEAKER_01 (06:09):
I'm still early on, I would say.
I'm an assistant professor.
I'm about four years out offellowship.
I did end up, like you and manypeople listening, doing multiple
fellowships.
I mean,
SPEAKER_04 (06:21):
you listed a lot of things at the beginning.
I was going to say somethingabout how long that took, but I
said, let's not go negative,Kemi.
Because I was like, okay, that'sa lot of stuff.
So you finished your finalfellowship.
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
Yes.
And I did pediatric GI nutritionfirst clinically, then did
research in epidemiology andthen did a health services
research fellowship.
SPEAKER_02 (06:43):
Oh, my goodness.
SPEAKER_01 (06:43):
You know how that goes.
And then I did an MPH duringthat time and medical
effectiveness.
And it's weird when you finishtraining because then you say,
what's next?
So I would say about two orthree years ago, I started
listening to your podcast.
So I've been a longtimelistener.
Mm hmm.
And felt like during mycommutes, especially when I
(07:04):
would listen to your podcast, Iwas already getting a form of
coaching.
I would sit in my car and nodand kind of respond back to you
and start laughing in my car ifyou said something really funny.
And then I listened to one ofyour episodes on mothering with
Dr.
Lewis and I was pregnant.
So that really hit me andresonated in a different way
(07:26):
because I knew or had an idea ofwhat to look like.
toward as a mother who was aboutto be a mother.
And sure enough, when I got, youknow, it took me two years to
get my K 23, but when I got myK, I needed to defer it because
I was pregnant and I ended upstarting my K on the same,
(07:46):
pretty much the same day that Itransitioned back from maternity
leave.
SPEAKER_04 (07:51):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01 (07:52):
So it was a lot of transition.
And in the first few months,especially, so for myriad
reasons, I felt lost.
I felt I felt a bit like I wasfloundering and having trouble
getting the K aims and myprojects off the ground.
And then your call for thecohort went out and it felt like
a sign.
(08:15):
So I applied immediately.
I had a new baby.
I just started my K.
I felt like things weren'tgetting done.
So that was when I knew thingsweren't working was I felt like
I was not making progress.
I was at the same institution Idid my training at, which is a
very large institution and feltlost.
And I think it was justnavigating a bunch of life
(08:35):
challenges as well asprofessional challenges and not
having a fellowship or sense ofcommunity from a fellowship.
Yeah, to give
SPEAKER_04 (08:42):
you the structure.
I mean, I think community, yes.
I don't want to obviouslybelittle that because community
is important.
I just think we totallyunderestimate what happens when
you take people from thestructure of a training program.
I mean, because I think we lookat the independence of your
ability to, clinically perform.
And, you know, an almostgraduated fellow is like
(09:04):
basically independent.
And then from the research side,I feel like as you're wrapping
up research programs, you'velike put in your grant, you're
like finishing up yourpublications.
You're like kind of in thepresenting mode of the stuff.
There's that same feeling oflike, okay, you got this.
And nobody kind of steps back tobe like, okay, but you've never
actually given yourselfstructure before.
(09:27):
Like you don't know how to dothat at all.
So I know you're not alone inbeing caught in that, like,
wait, how are things actuallygoing to move though and get off
the ground?
I have a question about theother side though, is how long
was your maternity leave?
I had 16 weeks.
Okay.
So you like four months and how,when you were coming back,
(09:47):
especially cause you listened tothe podcast, which I love by the
way.
I mean, that was a big reasonwhy we did that one.
When you were coming back, Iguess, how would you
characterize kind of youroutlook kind of coming back?
like, I'm so excited to be backand it's all going to, and this
is great.
Or were you like, I am a pool ofsadness or were you like, I am
just a pool of anxiety.
Like, I'm just curious if youlook back to the time where you
(10:09):
were just starting, cause you,you're the success story, right?
You started, you had your baby,you got your K award, like,
right.
It's like click, click, check,check, check, check, check,
check, check all like under fouryears, you know, and now you're
starting, but what was yourinternal feeling even before you
got to like, oh my God, I mightbe overwhelmed after you
started.
SPEAKER_01 (10:26):
You pretty much nailed what I was going to say
is you think you're quote set orat least for the immediate
period that okay five years Ihave my K I'm good I have this
runway yeah and then it startsand you feel oh the clock is
ticking but then you're alsoflush I was also coming back
(10:47):
from a maternity leave which isa very unusual period in your
life yeah where you cannot trulyunderstand what it is like until
you have gone through it no andit is a roller coaster it is a
roller coaster of emotions youhave a human being even when you
have help a wonderful partnersure and a village you know that
(11:12):
could be its own podcast is whatis maternity leave like so to
your question it was a rollercoaster it was all those
emotions you mentioned plus andeven as you know as an ob gyn
specialist it's hormonal too
SPEAKER_00 (11:29):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
so So there are so many shifts, biochemical and
then circumstantial, societal,all the things.
So while you think you're set, Idid not feel like I had the
tools to
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
make
SPEAKER_01 (11:42):
a proper start.
And I'm happy to go into alsowhy I felt like coaching has
been helpful.
Oh, we're getting there.
Yeah.
I'm just, I
SPEAKER_04 (11:50):
just was kind of like, I wanted to like set the
scene, you know, it
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
was a struggle because I didn't know how to
focus.
I didn't know how to sit downand get the thing that I thought
I was going to get done done.
I didn't know what I needed toget done done.
SPEAKER_04 (12:29):
the things I try to do is always get people to
understand, like, there is noset of characteristics, timing
or circumstances or whateverthat makes this transition like
easy, breezy, beautiful covergirl.
Like it doesn't.
And so like somebody couldlisten to you and be like, well,
she has her case.
She has her baby.
(12:49):
She had 16 weeks maternityleave.
Like everything is set.
But I think that's part of theproblem, right?
Is that like, there's all thesenarratives that differ wildly by
the way of like, okay, if youhave these things, you're good.
And like every single one ofthem is a lie because none of
them have to do with like yourinner CEO, your structure, your
boundaries, learning how youwork, all of that stuff.
(13:11):
So that's why I just like wantto emphasize that point.
That's like, if you like findyourself constantly thinking,
well, if I just had this, or ifI just had that, well, I didn't
get my case scored.
So this is why, like, there'salways some reason you think, I
promise you, that's not what itis because we work with people
across all things.
Like people who've submittedgrants five times, never got any
funded.
People have gotten funded everysingle time.
(13:32):
And like, that's not theproblem.
So I just, I appreciate yousharing a little bit more, but
yes, now let us know you comeinto GTD.
You're like, okay, this is asign.
I'm following the sign.
I love scientists who follow thesigns, the intuition.
So can you share with us amoment where something shifted
for you, where we moved out oflike this kind of hormonal
overwhelmed, how do I movethrough internal and external
(13:54):
boundaries?
Like where it felt differentfinally.
SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
So even from the moment the program's started.
And even in those first fewsessions, I knew that this
program was going to bedifferent.
I was simultaneously enrolled intwo other coaching programs for
externally driven reasons,right?
That were part of the award,that were part of kind of the
(14:17):
training and had differentstrengths, but they were, did
not have components that the GetThat Grant program had.
So I could tell from the wasgoing to be different,
especially in direct comparisonto the two other coaching
programs I was doing at thetime.
And I think one of the bigmoments though, so even from the
(14:39):
beginning, I knew, but a bigmoment happened actually a few
weeks ago and I'm still in theprogram.
Wait, can you pause?
I'm so sorry because I should
SPEAKER_04 (14:45):
not do this, but can you tell us why did you think
from the beginning it would bedifferent?
What was it that you were like,oh, this is not like these other
programs I'm in?
SPEAKER_01 (14:55):
The people in the group with me and the community,
which is bringing me back tokind of nowhere else did I feel
had a curated group.
And I didn't know any of thesewomen.
And even from the first call andintroductions and the questions
(15:15):
being asked and the coaches, Iwas like, oh, this is totally
different.
I have never met a group ofpeople like this in one setting.
UNKNOWN (15:24):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Right.
So it's that magic groupcoherence.
I'm dancing.
Y'all can't
SPEAKER_04 (15:52):
see me.
It's a place where you can letyour guard down and learn.
And I think it kind of showspeople how rare it is.
Cause you realize, oh my gosh,I've never been in a
professional setting and feltthis like free, you know, like
(16:17):
everybody here is qualified.
Everybody here is amazing, butlike we're being real and open.
I just, I don't know.
It makes me so happy.
Okay.
I won't dwell on this.
I'm sorry.
It just makes me so happy.
All right.
So tell us about the momentwhere you shifted for you, which
you said you were going to tellus something that fairly recent.
SPEAKER_01 (16:33):
Yeah.
So I'm in phase three, fulldisclosure.
I still have to finish, but I'mvery excited, but we had a
coaching call a few weeks ago.
I was traveling for work and Iwas in Hawaii actually for the
pediatric academic societiesconference.
And I had to join the coachingcall at five 30 in the morning
because of a Hawaii time.
And yet I was excited andlooking forward to it.
(16:55):
Even though the day before I wasat a conference activity after
activity that Mm-hmm.
(17:29):
I hate Zoom, but I know why it'snecessary, where I feel
energized by the other women inmy group in a time of a lot of
stress for many of us andglobally, circumstantially
difficult.
But yet I feel hope and that allthese women are invested in one
(17:49):
another and each other andthemselves and the coaches as
well.
So that was this moment where Iwas like, oh, wow, I'm walking
away from this call feelingenergized.
and I have a buddy and my buddyand I were texting that day to
continue the conversation
SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
so I think that was another big moment and a shift
where I realized okay this groupof people I continue to learn so
much from and will continue tokeep in touch with
SPEAKER_06 (18:22):
I love it
SPEAKER_04 (18:23):
what do you have now that you didn't have before
embarking on coaching other thanyour coaching buddy
SPEAKER_01 (18:29):
so So I mentioned this, but one of the major
things I have is confidence inmyself, in my ideas, and in my
small but mighty and growingteam.
I think what you and the GetThat Grant program do a great
job is extracting those thingsfrom us as we do our own work
(18:50):
and reflection.
And so I have new research ideasand fresh approaches to the
clinical and research missionthat I have.
And one of the things that Ihave is I have a website now
because the confidence that GetThat Grant has brought me is
like, okay, I need to be morepublic
SPEAKER_02 (19:10):
with
SPEAKER_01 (19:12):
what I do because people don't know about it.
And that's what's gotten us intoa certain situation with
academic research and publichealth is people don't know
about the good work people aredoing.
Exactly.
Especially in public health.
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (19:25):
This is part of the reason why I do these episodes
too, because I'm like, can youlisten to all these amazing
women of color who are doingamazing work.
Like we're all here.
Sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
And I listened to your podcast in September of
2024 that kind of was alreadysaying, oh, diversify funding,
diversify funding.
SPEAKER_04 (19:44):
Yes, I was.
Thank you for
SPEAKER_01 (19:46):
giving me, I said, I was telling you all this.
And then when everythinghappened and continued to happen
now, even as we speak.
As we record, yes.
I realized, okay, if I'm goingto diversify my funding.
How do I get my message and themission-driven work we're doing
out there?
And this highly functioning teamthat I have, which is made up of
(20:10):
undergraduates, one researchcoordinator, fellows and
trainees, helped me put togetherthis website and have helped me
start pitching the work we do toindustry sponsors, to
nonprofits.
So what do I have now that Ididn't have before?
The confidence in these ideasthe confidence to make this work
(20:32):
and message public.
And also I will say theapproaches that you use in group
coaching have made me thinkabout group coaching and other
purposes.
So whether it's with workingwith your own team or in my
intervention work too.
I see how group coachingmotivates one another and holds
(20:55):
other people accountable andmakes people feel safe, like you
just mentioned.
SPEAKER_04 (20:58):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So first of all, all of thesethings, I love you have
confidence and act on thatconfidence.
You know what I mean?
Like you created something andwhat I love that you uncovered,
not just like your own skills,but your team's ability.
Like all of a sudden youprobably see your team
differently now that you sawthem come together and build
this website.
(21:19):
It's like, that's the feelingwhere you're like, oh, we're
going to go far.
Like you said, we small, butmighty.
That's how you start to shiftyour view from like, oh, where
I'm early and I don't have thisand I don't have that.
and this person has this.
It's like when you can shift tolike, what can we do though
together?
Like we have a mission, let'sgo.
I just think that's such abeautiful moment.
And I feel like it's kind of thedownstream impact on your team.
(21:41):
Cause I bet they love that too,of like making something and
like being a part of it andbeing a part of the identity.
So I just think that that isbeautiful.
And coaching really improvesyour leadership skills, even if
it's not specific to leadershipcoaching, which we also do.
But like, even before you getthere, if you learn how to lead
yourself better.
And you have this experiencewhere you start to like, you're
(22:03):
saying like, you're doing theworkbooks and you're starting to
uncover different tools foryourself.
And you're starting to see like,oh, I'm actually really good at
this, or I know how to do like,you then look at the people you
work with.
And you're like, now I'm curiousabout you.
Right.
And all of a sudden, like, Idon't know, I just feel like
you're not the only person who'stold me like, it's really
revitalized my team, even thoughI was really working on me.
(22:25):
I just love that so much.
And then I was going to saysomething else, but now I
forgot.
It'll come back to
SPEAKER_01 (22:30):
me.
Like maybe the community-basedresearch and doing group
coaching.
Yes.
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (22:33):
Yes.
So yeah.
Also, I've heard this before.
People are like, you know, thisgroup environment is very
powerful.
And it actually goes back towhat you said, though, first of
all.
It goes back to what you saidwhen I was like, what was
different?
And you were like, the group.
Like I logged in and I was like,whoa, wait a minute.
The vibe is different.
Like you said, the questionsbeing asked are different.
And I think that, I mean, thereare group models, but I feel
(22:56):
very strongly that like if youwant to make sure that you
create the kind of environmentthat you are talking about, you
have to curate the group.
And it can't be something thatis just like, click here to sign
up because it's not aboutaccessibility.
It's about, it's hard to be in agroup where you have people with
different needs, like differentproblems.
(23:19):
But when you get into a groupwhere you have a similar set of
like skill sets, you know, interms of training and things
like that, and then you have asimilar set of problems and
struggles, even even thougheverybody thinks their problems
are unique, but then y'all gettogether and you're like, okay,
nevermind.
But when you do that, it's justlike, that's the alchemy.
It's like, oh my gosh, like weare all going to solve these
problems together.
(23:39):
And I think where groups fail iswhere you don't have that
curation.
So you've got people that arejust like, even if they're
trained the same, they havewildly different problems and
honestly, wildly differentgoals, wildly different
motivations.
And that's why, even thoughpeople complain, we will not
stop having an applicationprocess because if we can't
understand what are your goals,goals?
What are you trying to do?
(24:00):
I mean, you have been throughthis, right?
Like, it's not a quick click,click.
It's like, tell us why you'redoing what you're doing.
Let's really get in.
We have to make you do thiswhole assessment.
Like, how are you here?
How do you do this?
How do you do that?
All of that is so intentional tocreate what you experience,
which is getting on a call andbeing like, oh my God, this is
(24:21):
the group for me.
So I will say, as people thinkabout moving this into
intervention, as you think aboutthat too, I am so excited to
think about how you think aboutcuration in the work that you
do, because I do think thatthat's an important piece of it.
But then the power of the groupis just like incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (24:39):
So I work clinically with a population that's largely
Medicaid insured.
It's unique in that I deliverspecialty care to a primary
medical home setting in thecommunity, right?
So people have high socialneeds, one of them being food
insecurity, which you canimagine as a GI nutrition Yes.
Yes.
(24:59):
Yes.
(25:28):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (25:58):
Like all the things.
Okay.
So I'm so curious about what youwould tell another woman of
color faculty member like you,who might be also coming out of
maternity leave, who might kindof look like right now, kind of
look like a check, check, checkbox.
Because I mean, of course, a lotof people are struggling, but
(26:19):
not everybody.
But who's feeling overwhelmedand or feeling like I might be
doing this wrong.
They just signed up for Get ThatGrant.
What would you tell them to getthe most out of the program?
SPEAKER_01 (26:29):
I would say you know soak up everything that is
offered so what I mean by thatis you know there are going to
be times where you don't want toattend a session if you're tired
or had a long day or you don'twant to do all of the activities
in the workbook but once you dothem and once you deep dive into
(26:52):
it you will never regret thework you put in and the time you
spent yeah so while it can lookoverwhelming even coming off of
maternity leave.
I was like, how am I going to dothis coaching program when I can
barely get it together to leavethe house, right?
You know how it goes.
And you had two more
SPEAKER_04 (27:10):
coaching programs.
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
You had a lot to do.
And try to get actual researchdone.
But every session, even theoffice hours, the buddy
opportunity, really you can makethe most of it by leaning on
this community, which is whatpeople tell you when you come
back from a parental to leave isuse your village, right?
(27:31):
Ask for help.
SPEAKER_00 (27:32):
So
SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
putting your questions, and I've never been
shy to ask for help with thecoaches or from my cohort
members.
I've always asked the questions.
I've come into office hours andasked you questions.
Yes, I love it.
They're good questions.
That's what they're there for islike, why struggle alone when
other people might have answersand experience that could help
you?
So that's really what I wouldsay is sign up, attend as many
(27:56):
as you feasibly can of theofferings because because you
will never once regret theeffort or time that you have put
in to the program and toyourself.
SPEAKER_04 (28:05):
Oh my God, mic drop.
I cannot express to you howsatisfying it is to hear that
because as somebody who createdthis, who had two small
children, was still practicinggynecologic oncology, doing
super long complex surgeries,also getting a research program
off the ground, also just havinggot a career development award,
(28:27):
like I cannot tell you howstrong one of the values that I
had was that nothing is wasted.
Like we're not wasting anybody'stime.
There's not anything I'm goingto create that I'm going to ask
them to do.
There's not a single questionI'm going to ask.
There is nothing that is goingto be like extraneous, useless,
not really needed, blah, blah,blah, blah.
And I just love to hear you saythat because that was so the
(28:49):
goal.
Because we do ask.
It is like, listen, you need atleast two hours a week.
You have to actually do thiswork.
But that's exactly how I wantpeople to feel.
It's like, okay, I don't reallywant to do it, but I did do it.
And actually, it was reallyhelpful.
I'm like, that's it.
That's all I want.
It's like, it's not a fluffprogram.
It's really, really actually, Ithink, pared down to like the
minimum you need, but that isstill a lot because this problem
(29:12):
is a complex problem.
You know what I mean?
I think it's not an easyproblem.
Like give yourself anaffirmation in the morning and
put up a do not disturb message.
It's like, it's so much morecomplicated than that.
And it needs tailored solutionsfor each person.
But the magic is that you allco-create And to co-create
those, you have to do all thedata gathering.
You have to do all thereflection.
(29:32):
You have to do all those things.
But I'm so glad you feel likeyou leave with tools that are
functional for you.
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_04 (29:39):
Yay.
Is there anything else you wantto share before we wrap up?
SPEAKER_01 (29:42):
I think one of the coolest things is something one
of my cohort members said wasyou can actually use a lot of
these tools in your personallife.
I don't know if people havetalked about this, but for
instance, one of my cohortmembers said that she
purpose-montred her life.
So her personal life, right?
And I'm thinking, okay, so now Ihave a toddler.
So flash forward in time, I havea toddler.
(30:03):
Like thinking about productivityprecision during toddler nap
time.
What can I do and make the mostof that time?
What is my energy management formy toddler?
When can I, you know?
And so it's not just for yourprofessional life, though I
think it would be amazing to tryto teach a kid how to think
(30:24):
through some of the frameworksyou've taught us.
I don't know that they have theemotional- I'm not sure they're
developed
SPEAKER_04 (30:29):
enough
SPEAKER_01 (30:30):
yet.
I mean, aren't their brains alittle squishy?
My understanding is that they'restill kind of mushy up there.
But at least in parenting, youcould do it to yourself.
Like how do I ground myself tofigure my way out of this
SPEAKER_04 (30:42):
situation?
I definitely do that.
You know, I hadn't thought aboutit just like that, Alison, but I
definitely do that.
Like that concept of I'm goingto spend time with you, but I'm
going to think about what energyI have to do what.
So instead of trying to forcemyself to do something I don't
have energy for, I'm going tothink about an alternative is
totally one of the ideas aroundwhy productivity precision
(31:06):
works, right?
Because it's like, okay, I'mgoing to work on this project,
but I'm going to work on anaspect of it I can actually do
Friday at 3pm and not pretendthat that's going to be like
writing the best thing I've evercome up with at the end of the
week.
So that's a good point.
Okay.
I could talk to you forever.
And it's not just because yourname is Alison Wu.
So thank you so much for takingthe time to come on the podcast.
(31:28):
Why don't you let people knowwhere they can find information
out about your lab.
SPEAKER_01 (31:32):
Yeah.
So you can find informationabout our lab at www.wonderful.
So it's spelled with a U andwith two L's dash lab.org.
SPEAKER_04 (31:42):
Love it.
Alison, have a wonderful day.
Thank you for joining.
SPEAKER_01 (31:45):
Thank you.
Bye.
SPEAKER_04 (31:46):
Thank you for tuning in to the, your unapologetic
career podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episodeand want to keep the
conversation going, here's whatyou can do.
First, subscribe to this podcaston Apple Podcasts or whatever
platform you prefer so you nevermiss an episode.
Your support helps us reach morelisteners like you.
(32:08):
Second, I'd love to hear fromyou.
Text us any questions you haveabout this episode or just to
show us some love.
The link to text is in the shownotes.
Don't be shy.
If you're interested ingynecologic health, make sure to
sign up for my newsletter, Dr.
Chemidol and the Womb atwww.chemidol.com slash womb.
(32:28):
It This also comes out monthlyand is a great way to keep your
career on the right track.
And finally, if you're a womanof color faculty in academic
(32:52):
medicine or public health,definitely get on the Get That
Grant coaching wait list.
That's at www.getthatgrant.com.
Thank you for being part of ourcommunity.
Nowhere else did I feel had a curated group and I
didn't know any of these women.
And even from the first call andintroductions and the questions
being asked and the coaches, Iwas like, oh, this is totally
different.
I have never met a group ofpeople like this in one setting.
UNKNOWN (00:23):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (00:24):
Right.
So it's that magic group andcohesiveness that you
immediately feel a bond and youlearn from one another.
And I mean, I can get more intothat as well, but it was the
people in the program.
And then as soon as I starteddoing the workbook activities, I
was like, oh, I've never donethis before.
Oh, this is new too.
This is new exercise, new tools,new frameworks.
SPEAKER_04 (00:54):
Hello, hello.
You are listening to YourUnapologetic Career.
Being a woman of color facultyin academic medicine who wants
to make a real difference withyour career can be tough.
Listen, these systems are notbuilt for us, but that doesn't
mean we can't make them work forus.
In each episode, I'll be takinga deep dive into one core growth
(01:17):
strategy so you can gainconfidence and effectiveness in
pursuing the dream career youworked so hard to achieve.
All you have to do is tune in toyour unapologetic career with
me, your host Kemi Dole,physician, surgeon, researcher,
coach, and career strategist foran always authentic, sometimes a
(01:39):
little raw, but unapologeticallyempowering word.
I keep it real for you because Iwant you to win.
Hello, hello, folks.
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so excited to be here.
(02:00):
I'm not alone, which you alreadyknow if you clicked on the
episode.
I am with an absolutelywonderful person, but also
somebody who's special to mebecause she has the exact same
name of one of like my bestfriends.
And it's so weird because thevery first time her application
came through, I was like, well,what is Allie doing applying to
the program?
(02:20):
I was so confused.
And then I realized, oh, this isa different Allison Wu.
But it does mean that literallyevery single time I see her
name, for whatever reason,whether it's like I'm reviewing
client information or I'mlooking through progress notes
or anything like that.
Like anytime I see your name, Ijust grin because you remind me
of my friend.
(02:41):
Welcome to the podcast, Dr.
Allison Wu.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
So you are not my friend.
Although shout out to Allie.
I love you.
You know, she's also a doctor.
I
SPEAKER_01 (02:52):
do.
I've seen her because of Googlesearch, of course, who hasn't?
And she, she seems great.
And
SPEAKER_04 (02:59):
she's great.
But you know, she's one L,you're two Ls.
So that alone is enough of adistinction.
Anyway, why don't you tell thefolks your specialty, where you
work and what good work you'redoing in the world?
SPEAKER_01 (03:10):
Sure.
I am a pediatricgastroenterology, nutrition and
obesity medicine clinicianresearcher at Boston Children's
Hospital.
So I am focused on deliveringcompassionate GI nutrition and
obesity medicine care tochildren and leading impactful
epidemiology and health servicesresearch as PI of the Wonderful
(03:33):
Lab.
And the Wonderful Lab is a playon words because of my last
name, Wu.
And we conduct nutritionresearch dedicated to helping
kids reach their full health.
SPEAKER_04 (03:44):
I love that so much.
Well, I love it for manyreasons, but were you somebody
who started out knowing, I knowI'm going to work with kids and
then you figured out it was GIand obesity and nutrition and
other things?
Or was it like, I'm interestedin GI and then you realize kids
are way better than adults?
Like, I'm just curious.
SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
That's a really great question.
I literally come from abackground in academic science.
So my parents are former, nowretired, academic research
scientists.
So I always knew I lovedscience, but I actually didn't
know that I wanted to be aphysician.
I didn't really have anyimmediate family who were
physicians.
I just knew I loved science.
(04:20):
So when I started kind of theundergrad process of exploring
things, I actually didn't knowthat I wanted to go into
medicine, but I knew I lovedscience.
Did a couple things for a fewyears and then actually came
back to apply to medical schooland my dad is a former
gastroenterology researcher sothat was funny and and my
(04:41):
grandparents when they came tothe united states in the 80s
they opened a restaurant sothere was that food element and
then there was a science elementand then merging them together
was my interest in food asscience and food is medicine
yeah and so when it came to kidsi always I've always loved
working with kids.
(05:02):
And from the beginning, I thinkkind of both were probably
seeped into my early upbringingbecause I grew up with jobs that
were babysitting, campcounselor, tutoring, kind of all
of the classic, you know, somepeople who got service jobs at
different retail, but I alwaysloved the camp counselor taking
(05:26):
care of kids.
I was even a tour guide for highschool students internationally.
So I worked many different jobsbefore going into medicine, and
that's what I think has helpedme solidify my career path.
SPEAKER_04 (05:36):
Yes, I love that.
It's such a beautiful meld of,like you said, all your
different influences, includingintergenerational influences of
being around the food and therestaurant business.
And I love that.
But I was just like you.
All my money came from caringfor children.
Every job I had from 12 till Iwent to college and then started
working in the engineeringlibrary was child focused.
(05:58):
So I totally get it.
It's such a beautiful area.
Okay, so let's get into a littlebit of where were you in your
career when you started toconsider coaching and what was
it working for you?
So
SPEAKER_01 (06:09):
I'm still early on, I would say.
I'm an assistant professor.
I'm about four years out offellowship.
I did end up, like you and manypeople listening, doing multiple
fellowships.
I mean,
SPEAKER_04 (06:21):
you listed a lot of things at the beginning.
I was going to say somethingabout how long that took, but I
said, let's not go negative,Kemi.
Because I was like, okay, that'sa lot of stuff.
So you finished your finalfellowship.
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
Yes.
And I did pediatric GI nutritionfirst clinically, then did
research in epidemiology andthen did a health services
research fellowship.
SPEAKER_02 (06:43):
Oh, my goodness.
SPEAKER_01 (06:43):
You know how that goes.
And then I did an MPH duringthat time and medical
effectiveness.
And it's weird when you finishtraining because then you say,
what's next?
So I would say about two orthree years ago, I started
listening to your podcast.
So I've been a longtimelistener.
Mm hmm.
And felt like during mycommutes, especially when I
(07:04):
would listen to your podcast, Iwas already getting a form of
coaching.
I would sit in my car and nodand kind of respond back to you
and start laughing in my car ifyou said something really funny.
And then I listened to one ofyour episodes on mothering with
Dr.
Lewis and I was pregnant.
So that really hit me andresonated in a different way
(07:26):
because I knew or had an idea ofwhat to look like.
toward as a mother who was aboutto be a mother.
And sure enough, when I got, youknow, it took me two years to
get my K 23, but when I got myK, I needed to defer it because
I was pregnant and I ended upstarting my K on the same,
(07:46):
pretty much the same day that Itransitioned back from maternity
leave.
SPEAKER_04 (07:51):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01 (07:52):
So it was a lot of transition.
And in the first few months,especially, so for myriad
reasons, I felt lost.
I felt I felt a bit like I wasfloundering and having trouble
getting the K aims and myprojects off the ground.
And then your call for thecohort went out and it felt like
a sign.
(08:15):
So I applied immediately.
I had a new baby.
I just started my K.
I felt like things weren'tgetting done.
So that was when I knew thingsweren't working was I felt like
I was not making progress.
I was at the same institution Idid my training at, which is a
very large institution and feltlost.
And I think it was justnavigating a bunch of life
(08:35):
challenges as well asprofessional challenges and not
having a fellowship or sense ofcommunity from a fellowship.
Yeah, to give
SPEAKER_04 (08:42):
you the structure.
I mean, I think community, yes.
I don't want to obviouslybelittle that because community
is important.
I just think we totallyunderestimate what happens when
you take people from thestructure of a training program.
I mean, because I think we lookat the independence of your
ability to, clinically perform.
And, you know, an almostgraduated fellow is like
(09:04):
basically independent.
And then from the research side,I feel like as you're wrapping
up research programs, you'velike put in your grant, you're
like finishing up yourpublications.
You're like kind of in thepresenting mode of the stuff.
There's that same feeling oflike, okay, you got this.
And nobody kind of steps back tobe like, okay, but you've never
actually given yourselfstructure before.
(09:27):
Like you don't know how to dothat at all.
So I know you're not alone inbeing caught in that, like,
wait, how are things actuallygoing to move though and get off
the ground?
I have a question about theother side though, is how long
was your maternity leave?
I had 16 weeks.
Okay.
So you like four months and how,when you were coming back,
(09:47):
especially cause you listened tothe podcast, which I love by the
way.
I mean, that was a big reasonwhy we did that one.
When you were coming back, Iguess, how would you
characterize kind of youroutlook kind of coming back?
like, I'm so excited to be backand it's all going to, and this
is great.
Or were you like, I am a pool ofsadness or were you like, I am
just a pool of anxiety.
Like, I'm just curious if youlook back to the time where you
(10:09):
were just starting, cause you,you're the success story, right?
You started, you had your baby,you got your K award, like,
right.
It's like click, click, check,check, check, check, check,
check, check all like under fouryears, you know, and now you're
starting, but what was yourinternal feeling even before you
got to like, oh my God, I mightbe overwhelmed after you
started.
SPEAKER_01 (10:26):
You pretty much nailed what I was going to say
is you think you're quote set orat least for the immediate
period that okay five years Ihave my K I'm good I have this
runway yeah and then it startsand you feel oh the clock is
ticking but then you're alsoflush I was also coming back
(10:47):
from a maternity leave which isa very unusual period in your
life yeah where you cannot trulyunderstand what it is like until
you have gone through it no andit is a roller coaster it is a
roller coaster of emotions youhave a human being even when you
have help a wonderful partnersure and a village you know that
(11:12):
could be its own podcast is whatis maternity leave like so to
your question it was a rollercoaster it was all those
emotions you mentioned plus andeven as you know as an ob gyn
specialist it's hormonal too
SPEAKER_00 (11:29):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
so So there are so many shifts, biochemical and
then circumstantial, societal,all the things.
So while you think you're set, Idid not feel like I had the
tools to
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
make
SPEAKER_01 (11:42):
a proper start.
And I'm happy to go into alsowhy I felt like coaching has
been helpful.
Oh, we're getting there.
Yeah.
I'm just, I
SPEAKER_04 (11:50):
just was kind of like, I wanted to like set the
scene, you know, it
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
was a struggle because I didn't know how to
focus.
I didn't know how to sit downand get the thing that I thought
I was going to get done done.
I didn't know what I needed toget done done.
SPEAKER_04 (12:29):
the things I try to do is always get people to
understand, like, there is noset of characteristics, timing
or circumstances or whateverthat makes this transition like
easy, breezy, beautiful covergirl.
Like it doesn't.
And so like somebody couldlisten to you and be like, well,
she has her case.
She has her baby.
(12:49):
She had 16 weeks maternityleave.
Like everything is set.
But I think that's part of theproblem, right?
Is that like, there's all thesenarratives that differ wildly by
the way of like, okay, if youhave these things, you're good.
And like every single one ofthem is a lie because none of
them have to do with like yourinner CEO, your structure, your
boundaries, learning how youwork, all of that stuff.
(13:11):
So that's why I just like wantto emphasize that point.
That's like, if you like findyourself constantly thinking,
well, if I just had this, or ifI just had that, well, I didn't
get my case scored.
So this is why, like, there'salways some reason you think, I
promise you, that's not what itis because we work with people
across all things.
Like people who've submittedgrants five times, never got any
funded.
People have gotten funded everysingle time.
(13:32):
And like, that's not theproblem.
So I just, I appreciate yousharing a little bit more, but
yes, now let us know you comeinto GTD.
You're like, okay, this is asign.
I'm following the sign.
I love scientists who follow thesigns, the intuition.
So can you share with us amoment where something shifted
for you, where we moved out oflike this kind of hormonal
overwhelmed, how do I movethrough internal and external
(13:54):
boundaries?
Like where it felt differentfinally.
SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
So even from the moment the program's started.
And even in those first fewsessions, I knew that this
program was going to bedifferent.
I was simultaneously enrolled intwo other coaching programs for
externally driven reasons,right?
That were part of the award,that were part of kind of the
(14:17):
training and had differentstrengths, but they were, did
not have components that the GetThat Grant program had.
So I could tell from the wasgoing to be different,
especially in direct comparisonto the two other coaching
programs I was doing at thetime.
And I think one of the bigmoments though, so even from the
(14:39):
beginning, I knew, but a bigmoment happened actually a few
weeks ago and I'm still in theprogram.
Wait, can you pause?
I'm so sorry because I should
SPEAKER_04 (14:45):
not do this, but can you tell us why did you think
from the beginning it would bedifferent?
What was it that you were like,oh, this is not like these other
programs I'm in?
SPEAKER_01 (14:55):
The people in the group with me and the community,
which is bringing me back tokind of nowhere else did I feel
had a curated group.
And I didn't know any of thesewomen.
And even from the first call andintroductions and the questions
(15:15):
being asked and the coaches, Iwas like, oh, this is totally
different.
I have never met a group ofpeople like this in one setting.
UNKNOWN (15:24):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Right.
So it's that magic groupcoherence.
I'm dancing.
Y'all can't
SPEAKER_04 (15:52):
see me.
It's a place where you can letyour guard down and learn.
And I think it kind of showspeople how rare it is.
Cause you realize, oh my gosh,I've never been in a
professional setting and feltthis like free, you know, like
(16:17):
everybody here is qualified.
Everybody here is amazing, butlike we're being real and open.
I just, I don't know.
It makes me so happy.
Okay.
I won't dwell on this.
I'm sorry.
It just makes me so happy.
All right.
So tell us about the momentwhere you shifted for you, which
you said you were going to tellus something that fairly recent.
SPEAKER_01 (16:33):
Yeah.
So I'm in phase three, fulldisclosure.
I still have to finish, but I'mvery excited, but we had a
coaching call a few weeks ago.
I was traveling for work and Iwas in Hawaii actually for the
pediatric academic societiesconference.
And I had to join the coachingcall at five 30 in the morning
because of a Hawaii time.
And yet I was excited andlooking forward to it.
(16:55):
Even though the day before I wasat a conference activity after
activity that Mm-hmm.
(17:29):
I hate Zoom, but I know why it'snecessary, where I feel
energized by the other women inmy group in a time of a lot of
stress for many of us andglobally, circumstantially
difficult.
But yet I feel hope and that allthese women are invested in one
(17:49):
another and each other andthemselves and the coaches as
well.
So that was this moment where Iwas like, oh, wow, I'm walking
away from this call feelingenergized.
and I have a buddy and my buddyand I were texting that day to
continue the conversation
SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
so I think that was another big moment and a shift
where I realized okay this groupof people I continue to learn so
much from and will continue tokeep in touch with
SPEAKER_06 (18:22):
I love it
SPEAKER_04 (18:23):
what do you have now that you didn't have before
embarking on coaching other thanyour coaching buddy
SPEAKER_01 (18:29):
so So I mentioned this, but one of the major
things I have is confidence inmyself, in my ideas, and in my
small but mighty and growingteam.
I think what you and the GetThat Grant program do a great
job is extracting those thingsfrom us as we do our own work
(18:50):
and reflection.
And so I have new research ideasand fresh approaches to the
clinical and research missionthat I have.
And one of the things that Ihave is I have a website now
because the confidence that GetThat Grant has brought me is
like, okay, I need to be morepublic
SPEAKER_02 (19:10):
with
SPEAKER_01 (19:12):
what I do because people don't know about it.
And that's what's gotten us intoa certain situation with
academic research and publichealth is people don't know
about the good work people aredoing.
Exactly.
Especially in public health.
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (19:25):
This is part of the reason why I do these episodes
too, because I'm like, can youlisten to all these amazing
women of color who are doingamazing work.
Like we're all here.
Sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
And I listened to your podcast in September of
2024 that kind of was alreadysaying, oh, diversify funding,
diversify funding.
SPEAKER_04 (19:44):
Yes, I was.
Thank you for
SPEAKER_01 (19:46):
giving me, I said, I was telling you all this.
And then when everythinghappened and continued to happen
now, even as we speak.
As we record, yes.
I realized, okay, if I'm goingto diversify my funding.
How do I get my message and themission-driven work we're doing
out there?
And this highly functioning teamthat I have, which is made up of
(20:10):
undergraduates, one researchcoordinator, fellows and
trainees, helped me put togetherthis website and have helped me
start pitching the work we do toindustry sponsors, to
nonprofits.
So what do I have now that Ididn't have before?
The confidence in these ideasthe confidence to make this work
(20:32):
and message public.
And also I will say theapproaches that you use in group
coaching have made me thinkabout group coaching and other
purposes.
So whether it's with workingwith your own team or in my
intervention work too.
I see how group coachingmotivates one another and holds
(20:55):
other people accountable andmakes people feel safe, like you
just mentioned.
SPEAKER_04 (20:58):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So first of all, all of thesethings, I love you have
confidence and act on thatconfidence.
You know what I mean?
Like you created something andwhat I love that you uncovered,
not just like your own skills,but your team's ability.
Like all of a sudden youprobably see your team
differently now that you sawthem come together and build
this website.
(21:19):
It's like, that's the feelingwhere you're like, oh, we're
going to go far.
Like you said, we small, butmighty.
That's how you start to shiftyour view from like, oh, where
I'm early and I don't have thisand I don't have that.
and this person has this.
It's like when you can shift tolike, what can we do though
together?
Like we have a mission, let'sgo.
I just think that's such abeautiful moment.
And I feel like it's kind of thedownstream impact on your team.
(21:41):
Cause I bet they love that too,of like making something and
like being a part of it andbeing a part of the identity.
So I just think that that isbeautiful.
And coaching really improvesyour leadership skills, even if
it's not specific to leadershipcoaching, which we also do.
But like, even before you getthere, if you learn how to lead
yourself better.
And you have this experiencewhere you start to like, you're
(22:03):
saying like, you're doing theworkbooks and you're starting to
uncover different tools foryourself.
And you're starting to see like,oh, I'm actually really good at
this, or I know how to do like,you then look at the people you
work with.
And you're like, now I'm curiousabout you.
Right.
And all of a sudden, like, Idon't know, I just feel like
you're not the only person who'stold me like, it's really
revitalized my team, even thoughI was really working on me.
(22:25):
I just love that so much.
And then I was going to saysomething else, but now I
forgot.
It'll come back to
SPEAKER_01 (22:30):
me.
Like maybe the community-basedresearch and doing group
coaching.
Yes.
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (22:33):
Yes.
So yeah.
Also, I've heard this before.
People are like, you know, thisgroup environment is very
powerful.
And it actually goes back towhat you said, though, first of
all.
It goes back to what you saidwhen I was like, what was
different?
And you were like, the group.
Like I logged in and I was like,whoa, wait a minute.
The vibe is different.
Like you said, the questionsbeing asked are different.
And I think that, I mean, thereare group models, but I feel
(22:56):
very strongly that like if youwant to make sure that you
create the kind of environmentthat you are talking about, you
have to curate the group.
And it can't be something thatis just like, click here to sign
up because it's not aboutaccessibility.
It's about, it's hard to be in agroup where you have people with
different needs, like differentproblems.
(23:19):
But when you get into a groupwhere you have a similar set of
like skill sets, you know, interms of training and things
like that, and then you have asimilar set of problems and
struggles, even even thougheverybody thinks their problems
are unique, but then y'all gettogether and you're like, okay,
nevermind.
But when you do that, it's justlike, that's the alchemy.
It's like, oh my gosh, like weare all going to solve these
problems together.
(23:39):
And I think where groups fail iswhere you don't have that
curation.
So you've got people that arejust like, even if they're
trained the same, they havewildly different problems and
honestly, wildly differentgoals, wildly different
motivations.
And that's why, even thoughpeople complain, we will not
stop having an applicationprocess because if we can't
understand what are your goals,goals?
What are you trying to do?
(24:00):
I mean, you have been throughthis, right?
Like, it's not a quick click,click.
It's like, tell us why you'redoing what you're doing.
Let's really get in.
We have to make you do thiswhole assessment.
Like, how are you here?
How do you do this?
How do you do that?
All of that is so intentional tocreate what you experience,
which is getting on a call andbeing like, oh my God, this is
(24:21):
the group for me.
So I will say, as people thinkabout moving this into
intervention, as you think aboutthat too, I am so excited to
think about how you think aboutcuration in the work that you
do, because I do think thatthat's an important piece of it.
But then the power of the groupis just like incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (24:39):
So I work clinically with a population that's largely
Medicaid insured.
It's unique in that I deliverspecialty care to a primary
medical home setting in thecommunity, right?
So people have high socialneeds, one of them being food
insecurity, which you canimagine as a GI nutrition Yes.
Yes.
(24:59):
Yes.
(25:28):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (25:58):
Like all the things.
Okay.
So I'm so curious about what youwould tell another woman of
color faculty member like you,who might be also coming out of
maternity leave, who might kindof look like right now, kind of
look like a check, check, checkbox.
Because I mean, of course, a lotof people are struggling, but
(26:19):
not everybody.
But who's feeling overwhelmedand or feeling like I might be
doing this wrong.
They just signed up for Get ThatGrant.
What would you tell them to getthe most out of the program?
SPEAKER_01 (26:29):
I would say you know soak up everything that is
offered so what I mean by thatis you know there are going to
be times where you don't want toattend a session if you're tired
or had a long day or you don'twant to do all of the activities
in the workbook but once you dothem and once you deep dive into
(26:52):
it you will never regret thework you put in and the time you
spent yeah so while it can lookoverwhelming even coming off of
maternity leave.
I was like, how am I going to dothis coaching program when I can
barely get it together to leavethe house, right?
You know how it goes.
And you had two more
SPEAKER_04 (27:10):
coaching programs.
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
You had a lot to do.
And try to get actual researchdone.
But every session, even theoffice hours, the buddy
opportunity, really you can makethe most of it by leaning on
this community, which is whatpeople tell you when you come
back from a parental to leave isuse your village, right?
(27:31):
Ask for help.
SPEAKER_00 (27:32):
So
SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
putting your questions, and I've never been
shy to ask for help with thecoaches or from my cohort
members.
I've always asked the questions.
I've come into office hours andasked you questions.
Yes, I love it.
They're good questions.
That's what they're there for islike, why struggle alone when
other people might have answersand experience that could help
you?
So that's really what I wouldsay is sign up, attend as many
(27:56):
as you feasibly can of theofferings because because you
will never once regret theeffort or time that you have put
in to the program and toyourself.
SPEAKER_04 (28:05):
Oh my God, mic drop.
I cannot express to you howsatisfying it is to hear that
because as somebody who createdthis, who had two small
children, was still practicinggynecologic oncology, doing
super long complex surgeries,also getting a research program
off the ground, also just havinggot a career development award,
(28:27):
like I cannot tell you howstrong one of the values that I
had was that nothing is wasted.
Like we're not wasting anybody'stime.
There's not anything I'm goingto create that I'm going to ask
them to do.
There's not a single questionI'm going to ask.
There is nothing that is goingto be like extraneous, useless,
not really needed, blah, blah,blah, blah.
And I just love to hear you saythat because that was so the
(28:49):
goal.
Because we do ask.
It is like, listen, you need atleast two hours a week.
You have to actually do thiswork.
But that's exactly how I wantpeople to feel.
It's like, okay, I don't reallywant to do it, but I did do it.
And actually, it was reallyhelpful.
I'm like, that's it.
That's all I want.
It's like, it's not a fluffprogram.
It's really, really actually, Ithink, pared down to like the
minimum you need, but that isstill a lot because this problem
(29:12):
is a complex problem.
You know what I mean?
I think it's not an easyproblem.
Like give yourself anaffirmation in the morning and
put up a do not disturb message.
It's like, it's so much morecomplicated than that.
And it needs tailored solutionsfor each person.
But the magic is that you allco-create And to co-create
those, you have to do all thedata gathering.
You have to do all thereflection.
(29:32):
You have to do all those things.
But I'm so glad you feel likeyou leave with tools that are
functional for you.
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_04 (29:39):
Yay.
Is there anything else you wantto share before we wrap up?
SPEAKER_01 (29:42):
I think one of the coolest things is something one
of my cohort members said wasyou can actually use a lot of
these tools in your personallife.
I don't know if people havetalked about this, but for
instance, one of my cohortmembers said that she
purpose-montred her life.
So her personal life, right?
And I'm thinking, okay, so now Ihave a toddler.
So flash forward in time, I havea toddler.
(30:03):
Like thinking about productivityprecision during toddler nap
time.
What can I do and make the mostof that time?
What is my energy management formy toddler?
When can I, you know?
And so it's not just for yourprofessional life, though I
think it would be amazing to tryto teach a kid how to think
(30:24):
through some of the frameworksyou've taught us.
I don't know that they have theemotional- I'm not sure they're
developed
SPEAKER_04 (30:29):
enough
SPEAKER_01 (30:30):
yet.
I mean, aren't their brains alittle squishy?
My understanding is that they'restill kind of mushy up there.
But at least in parenting, youcould do it to yourself.
Like how do I ground myself tofigure my way out of this
SPEAKER_04 (30:42):
situation?
I definitely do that.
You know, I hadn't thought aboutit just like that, Alison, but I
definitely do that.
Like that concept of I'm goingto spend time with you, but I'm
going to think about what energyI have to do what.
So instead of trying to forcemyself to do something I don't
have energy for, I'm going tothink about an alternative is
totally one of the ideas aroundwhy productivity precision
(31:06):
works, right?
Because it's like, okay, I'mgoing to work on this project,
but I'm going to work on anaspect of it I can actually do
Friday at 3pm and not pretendthat that's going to be like
writing the best thing I've evercome up with at the end of the
week.
So that's a good point.
Okay.
I could talk to you forever.
And it's not just because yourname is Alison Wu.
So thank you so much for takingthe time to come on the podcast.
(31:28):
Why don't you let people knowwhere they can find information
out about your lab.
SPEAKER_01 (31:32):
Yeah.
So you can find informationabout our lab at www.wonderful.
So it's spelled with a U andwith two L's dash lab.org.
SPEAKER_04 (31:42):
Love it.
Alison, have a wonderful day.
Thank you for joining.
SPEAKER_01 (31:45):
Thank you.
Bye.
SPEAKER_04 (31:46):
Thank you for tuning in to the, your unapologetic
career podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episodeand want to keep the
conversation going, here's whatyou can do.
First, subscribe to this podcaston Apple Podcasts or whatever
platform you prefer so you nevermiss an episode.
Your support helps us reach morelisteners like you.
(32:08):
Second, I'd love to hear fromyou.
Text us any questions you haveabout this episode or just to
show us some love.
The link to text is in the shownotes.
Don't be shy.
If you're interested ingynecologic health, make sure to
sign up for my newsletter, Dr.
Chemidol and the Womb atwww.chemidol.com slash womb.
(32:28):
It This also comes out monthlyand is a great way to keep your
career on the right track.
And finally, if you're a womanof color faculty in academic
(32:52):
medicine or public health,definitely get on the Get That
Grant coaching wait list.
That's at www.getthatgrant.com.
Thank you for being part of ourcommunity.
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