In this week's workplace headlines, dive into the groundbreaking 2024 McKinsey & Lean In Women in the Workplace report revealing young women face twice the ageism as their male peers. Learn why it will take 50 years to reach pay parity and discover the shocking real cost of return-to-office mandates - averaging $1,200 monthly per employee. Plus, explore why progressive companies are adding divorce support as their newest employee benefit.
We break down these critical workplace trends and share their personal experiences navigating corporate America's gender dynamics.
Key topics:
- Latest Women in Workplace Report findings
- The true cost of RTO policies
- Divorce support is the hottest new employee benefit
- Young women's experiences with workplace ageism
- Corporate America's progress toward gender parity
Suggested Tags: #WomenInWorkplace #WorkplaceEquity #CareerAdvice #ReturnToOffice #EmployeeBenefits #WorkplaceCulture #GenderEquality #CareerDevelopment #WorkLifeBalance #CorporateCulture
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host or the management.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Another woman talked about being actively coached in
the workplace to appear older byolder female colleagues.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
That happened to me.
That happened to me too.
I was told like you need tosound less West Coast, that's
the way they put it.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I was also told to make sure my hair was more of a
darker brown and to get rid ofany blonde what's?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
going on, mel.
What's up, friend?
Hi, hi, how was the weekend?
How was the weekend?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
It's beautiful in New England right now.
It's also that weird time whereevery New Englander is in a
competition to see who can holdout from turning their heat on.
But I made Robbie turn the heaton.
I will not shiver.
You keep a cold house, what do?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
you do For a batch of honor.
Yeah, I know You're like ithits 55.
You're like yeah time to.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I do the best I can, I can, I layer up.
I got all the fuzzy socks, allthe good things, but I couldn't
beat it.
But it's gorgeous here rightnow.
It's so nice we're at theheight of fall, but it was
relaxing.
I didn't really do much ofanything, I just got some
sunshine on my face and readsome books proud of you.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Proud of you, that's good.
You have to have weekends likethat I have the reminder from a
friend.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Sign off.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Get off the phone, back away from the computer.
Yeah, I think it's good Ifyou're someone that works on the
weekends, even if it's just tocheck in.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I think it's good to have an accountability partner.
I appreciate you.
How was your weekend?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Good, I wanted to do this in Portland for a long time
.
They how was your weekend?
Good, I wanted to do this inportland for a long time.
They have this thing called thepumpkin regatta, where they
core out ginormous pumpkins andthen race them around.
Just, it's funny, you just haveto see it.
You just have to see it.
And there are clearly people inthere that know how to race.
And then jeff and I were likehow do you train for that?
Because you can't just your.
(02:03):
Your boat is a pumpkin you'rebalancing in the pumpkin.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
That doesn't just.
It's a lot of trust in a hollowpumpkin.
A lot of trust pumpkins growdifferently.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
You can't that feel like listen.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Where do you, where do you procure a giant pumpkin?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
for people like grow them, they grow them all year
round.
They grow your own pumpkin.
You fashion your own boat.
I don't know if you leave someof the schmutz in for weight at
the bottom.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I'm sure there's a whole science behind this but so
what I'm hearing is your work,friends, is definitely planting
a pumpkin patch when I'm there,so we can do this race next year
.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
People dress up too.
I had 20 bucks on the nun.
There was, like the break, RayGunn, the break dancer from the
yeah, oh, someone dressed up.
Someone dressed up.
These are all people.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Ray Gunn was there.
Oh my God, now I'm onto this.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, I would say it's a fall from grace?
It is not.
It is a lateral move.
We're back with new week, newheadlines.
Mel, what are you talking abouttoday?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Touching on the latest women in the workplace
report, which is the comboreport by Lean In and McKinsey,
and the headline here is theworkplace doesn't take young
women seriously.
And now they're pushing back.
Yeah, young women, women I loveit and then I have some wtf
(03:33):
news relating back to this womanin the workplace report around
reaching parity for women, butalso the cost of rto from work
life, which came out with a newcost number that they have, and
what that means for employees.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Oh, all right, Cool.
I want to talk about thehottest new employee benefit
divorce, yes, divorce.
Workplaces are seeing a verypositive impact on helping their
employees through divorce.
I want to talk about why, whatit looks like and you probably
already have support for yourdivorce under the hood of some
of your benefits that alreadyexist.
(04:11):
Let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Do you want to start with WTF?
Yeah, yeah, I will say thebiggest thing for me.
So I spent time reading theWomen in the Workplace report.
The biggest thing for me.
So I spent time reading theWomen in the Workplace report,
the headline despite progress,it will take almost 50 years to
reach parity for all women incorporate America.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Like pay parity.
Basically, we're paid the sameas men.
Yeah, got it.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
You and I will be dead when that happens,
hopefully Over our dead bodies.
Yeah, over our dead bodies.
What they were saying is at thecurrent pace, they know it will
take 22 years to reach payparity for white women, and more
than twice as long for women ofcolor specifically, and this is
based on the assumption thatorgs can actually keep the
momentum they've experiencedover the past 10 years, with the
(04:58):
number of women in seniorleadership steadily increasing.
They did know that.
There are signs, though, thatthe pipeline to maintain that
may not be as healthy as thenumbers suggest, and you and I
have talked about this around.
Women are leaving corporateAmerica in droves, right we?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
talked about this a few episodes back right.
Executive women are like peaceout.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
homie Corporate isn't good to them.
We also talked about this a fewepisodes back.
That again, women are notleaving in mass exodus for the
reasons that we've always beentold.
It's long been assumed and toldto everybody that women step
away for family obligations, orwomen are not asking for
(05:40):
promotions like men, and theseare the main reasons we don't
see them in leadership becausethey've left the workforce for a
period and have come back, orthey're just not asking for
these things.
But in reality it's not foreither of those reasons.
It's because the environmentdoesn't support them.
Yeah, I believe that I believethat that is that they end this
(06:04):
report with.
We should be cautiouslyoptimistic about the future if
it weren't for one glaringfinding in this year's study a
company's commitment todiversity declining.
And at a moment when companiesshould be doubling down on their
efforts, there are early signsthey are pulling back.
Their major call to action wasfor orgs to stay as ambitious
(06:25):
and committed to women as womenhave been to their jobs, noting
that they believe corporateAmerica can do better and we
know women deserve better.
I was like heck, yeah, thanksfor making that formal statement
.
The other WTF news cost of RTO.
Want to take a guess on theaverage daily cost for workers?
(06:46):
the average daily cost forworkers who've been asked to
return to the office.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I feel like we talked about this before and it was
somewhere around 50 bucks orsomething like that.
Is that right it was?
It was 50, which 50 bucks is alot of money, a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah, it's a lot of money.
Workers are now spending, onaverage, $61 per day.
If they have to return to theoffice, everything from
transportation costs on average,that's around $27.
Getting a coffee or breakfast$10.
If you're getting lunch, $15.
So all of these costs, whichseem small when they're
(07:24):
independent, collectively areaveraging to be about $61 per
day, meaning that's anadditional $300 per week cost
for those who are required to goback into the office, which
equals out to about $1,200 amonth.
This survey was conducted byOwl Labs and they interviewed
over 2,000 US workers who arenow RTO five days a week, and
(07:48):
there was an emphasis here onthings we commonly talk about,
which is exploring hybridflexibility, how this is
impacting your workers,exploring your benefits and the
subsidies that you are going toprovide in order to cover this
new cost of living expense foryour employees.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
That's such a hit.
When you think about $1,200 amonth, you're thinking like 15K
a year, almost right.
That you're paying out ofpocket just to commute to work
is a huge hit when most peoplein this country are making less
than $70,000 a year, right.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Their big message there was employers who are
demanding RTO need to considerthese expenses, and you can't
forget about the subsidies andpay that you need to supplement
in order to support youremployees.
Yeah, woof.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I know so.
Fast Company had an articlethis week about divorce.
Your newest employee benefitmay be supporting you through
your divorce.
This caught my eye just becausedivorce, honestly, is something
that you and I have both workedwith people that have gotten
divorced, that are going throughdivorce while they're working.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
That's not pretty.
No, it's a toll.
It takes a toll financially,mentally.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, it's a lot, and when you talk to people that
have gone through it to yourvery good point the legal aspect
of it, the legal aspect of it,the financial aspect of it, the
mental health aspect of it, thegrief aspect of it my fun time
is when I watch people gothrough the re-entry and they're
dating 500 people.
There's a whole thing that'shappening with people when
they're going through a divorce,coming out of a divorce, et
(09:35):
cetera.
But what also happens foremployers is there's a massive
productivity hit.
Oh of course, it's one of anemployee's toughest transitions
to go through.
Again, it's going to have amassive impact on the workforce
right, Especially when peopleare in management positions.
40% of employees experience asignificant productivity dip
(09:56):
when they go through a divorceBecause, when you're thinking
about all the legal proceedingsyou need to go through any kind
of child custody thing.
It is just insane.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, divorces can get really ugly.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So, yeah, I can imagine here's the thing really
forward thinking employers arestarting to partner with
organizations like Hello Divorce, for example, that offer
divorce coaches for people tohelp navigate, again, one of the
toughest transitions thatthey'll go through, and a time
(10:29):
where you're going to have apretty massive productivity dip,
and what organizations areprobably trying to do is shorten
that productivity dip.
So what exactly is divorcesupport, you might be asking,
and how could this show up inyour employee benefit package?
It can come in the form ofthose divorce coaches.
Those are specialists that arehelping employees navigate the
legal, the financial, theemotional aspects of divorce.
(10:50):
They're not going to be yourlegal counsel, but they'll help
you navigate it right, becauseit's a black hole.
Mental health services as well,access to therapy, counseling
sessions tailored todivorce-related stress, things
like financial assistance.
For instance, there's aplatform called SupportPay that
streamlined co-parentingexpenses and child support,
(11:10):
which is pretty cool andflexible work schedules right
that allow employees the timethey need for legal meetings or
counseling during work hours.
Those are all ways thatcompanies can support employees
while they're going through adivorce.
Why they might be doing this issomething that I do want to
unpack.
Why do you think companiesmight want to offer this as a
(11:32):
benefit.
What's in it for them?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It comes down to what you said.
It's having an engagedworkforce and if they're pulled
away from these other things,it's going to take a huge hit to
morale.
It takes a hit to productivityretention.
They can retain those employees.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Because typically, and look, I just cut bangs, but
I didn't go through a divorce.
What happens when this shithappens?
You're like I'm changing myhair, I'm doing this, and that
might also include changing yourjob because you're like I just
need a fresh everything whenpeople are going through these
big life moments by the way, Icut my bangs on my own no major
(12:09):
life event.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
All of those things.
It's just really good forbusiness.
To your point, productivitydrops we said this earlier a
drop 40% in the first six monthsof someone getting a divorce.
A drop 40% in the first sixmonths of someone getting a
divorce.
It can persist for up to fiveyears Because again, it's such a
traumatic thing to go throughAbsentee and turnover,
(12:30):
divorce-related stress and allthe meetings you go through.
Employees take an average of 21additional days off on average
within the first year.
That's 2.6 times more than theaverage worker's absenteeism.
And the other thing is themental health and retention.
To your point, offering divorcesupport can help retain your top
talent.
Just period, point blank.
Yeah, it shows you're good atshit.
(12:52):
Absolutely Quick things.
Just to inside scoop here Ifyou are going through a divorce,
if you're thinking about goingthrough a divorce number one,
this is more common than youthink.
You may not realize it, butcompanies have been rolling out
divorce benefits as part ofbroader wellness programs.
Even if it's not advertised, Iwould check in in your benefits
(13:13):
packages.
It might be buried underneaththere.
You could protect your careeras well.
Divorce is a very heavyemotional toll on folks.
This is a professional lifelinefor you.
So if your company offers thesetypes of things, please feel
free to take advantage of them.
They're there for you, rightand honestly.
Companies see this as a win forsure.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, Lean into your resources and your community for
stuff like this.
It's like super important.
So if you have access to thosetypes of resources, a hundred
percent you should use them.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, yeah, divorce.
Who knew, who knew.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Young women in the workplace.
All right, the workplacedoesn't take young women
seriously.
Now they're pushing back.
This was an article written byCarolyn Fairchild on girlbosscom
.
She's the editor-in-chief overat Lean In, and McKinsey
recently put out the latestWomen in the Workplace report.
It's their 10th report, sothey've been studying this for
(14:13):
over a decade now, so they'regetting some really good
information.
What are the headlines here?
Women at all ages experienceageism, no surprise.
And young women experience itthe most of any group of workers
.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Young women.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Young women.
50% of women under the age of30 say their age has had a
negative impact on their careers.
Young women are also twice aslikely as young men to have
their co-workers call attentionto their age unnecessarily, and
you and I have talked about thisissue multiple times from the
last report, which was the callout of the broken rung, where
(14:49):
women are far less likely thanmen men promoted to manager.
Only 81 women were promoted.
Young women are also lesslikely than men to be hired into
entry-level roles.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Get out of the city.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yep.
They also note that womenoverall are far more likely than
men to deal with comments andactions that undermine their
skills and expertise.
Younger women are twice aslikely as younger men to have
their judgment question in theirprimary area of expertise.
They are also more likely to bemistaken for someone at a much
lower level than they actuallyare.
(15:30):
I have a question for you,Francesco.
Have you ever experienced thisas a young woman?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I'm laughing because I've experienced all of those
things, all of those things.
It was very all of the abovemultiple times a year multiple
times a year.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
It's from the beginning of our careers through
now.
Like I, I don't think I've everexperienced a time where I
didn't experience some level ofageism in the workplace.
There's a lot of things thathappen.
It's in the language thatpeople use when they speak to
you.
It's in the assignments thatthey give to you, which are
typically lower level tasks.
I've I have a laundry list ofthings I've experienced and we'd
(16:08):
love to hear from our listenerswhat have you experienced as a
woman in the workplace?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
When I think about some of the people that I've
worked with that have just beenabsolute beasts, like beasts
from a performance perspective,from a smarts perspective.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Young women.
Yeah yeah, women are likeambitious, I want to get into it
.
So they interviewed women tosee what are some of the things
that they experienced, and youand I have our stories.
I'd love to hear our listenerstories, but I'll share a couple
of what they have here.
One woman noted that, becauseof her age, she was asked to be
the person that figures out thisquote, unquote, tiktok thing.
(16:49):
Another woman referred a malefriend so a personal friend of
hers to her organization for hersame job level in a different
department.
She later found out that,although they are same education
, same level of experience, hisstarting salary was
(17:09):
significantly higher than hersand, although he applied for the
same level role, he was offereda more senior position.
Another woman talked aboutbeing actively coached in the
workplace to appear older byolder female colleagues.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
That happened to me.
That happened to me too.
I was told like you need tosound less West Coast, that's
the way they put it.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
I was also told to make sure my hair was more of a
darker brown and to get rid ofany blonde.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Really.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
What the fuck Do you know that?
I did it and I actually made adifference.
I ended up getting a weird joboffer after that.
It's interesting because that'swhat older women have
experienced.
These have been their copingmechanisms and now a new
generation of women are comingup and being offered the same
advice that those women weretold by other women who were
(18:00):
told, who had to just survive inthese environments.
When you think back to 60s, 70s,80s- 90s even early 2000s, when
you and I started, it was likevery different workplaces.
So now it's just thiscontinuing.
You need to change everythingabout yourself to fit in.
They've also been told todiminish their personality.
One woman noted she was told tomake sure she doesn't bring
(18:22):
girlish energy when showingenthusiasm about the work and to
be less cheerful, to talk lessand be more.
But we know that womenexperience the double bias,
right.
So then you become the bitch onthe team.
If you adopt those things, howexhausted are we Okay?
Another woman noted that whenbeing on site with the team she
(18:46):
leads, people automaticallydefer to one of her male
colleagues, assuming he isleading, and in fact in one
instance when she was directingquestions to someone on her
project, that person would onlyrespond to the male on her team,
even after that male teammember reminded him she was the
lead.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
That's happened to me multiple times Happens to me
too.
Yeah, I know, it's just it's.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Damn.
Are we all exhausted yet?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, this does not surprise me.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Like this report doesn't share any new news.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
No, yeah, and that's what pisses me off about it.
It's just you guys.
Come on, this is insane.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
It's just confirmation, all right.
So the so what?
Ageism is an issue for allsexes, we know that.
But for young women inparticular, this can have
potentially long-term damagingeffects on their career.
The article noted womenreporting on missing out on
promotions, pay raises and otheropportunities for advancement.
In the article, dr Amy Diehl, agender equity researcher and
(19:44):
author of Glass Walls, notedquote in the workplace,
referring to someone's young agecan seem like a compliment, but
it's incredibly diminishing.
For women, it's all a way ofpointing out that, unlike the
men, she doesn't belong at work,and if she belongs, she really
just belongs in support roles,not leadership position.
They also emphasized that oftenit's assumed that women aren't
(20:06):
promoted due to not askingstepping away from work, and I
just called this out on the WTFnews.
But again, it's the biasagainst women, including ageism,
that is the main driver oftheir promotion barriers.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, this is my thing.
What we're doing is we'reletting organizations off the
hook every time.
We're like, oh, women areleaving because of the child
debrearing or they're not askingfor it, so we're putting it on
women as opposed to saying no.
We need to do a better job ofredoing how this happens.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Or, if women ask for it, they're too ambitious, yeah,
they're labeled as such andshot down, and you and I both
experienced this in theworkplace.
I've spoken to tons of friends,family clients even, who've
experienced this in theworkplace, and you have to
constantly have this balance ofperfectionism.
That's why that Barbie speechresonates so much with all women
(21:01):
, because you're supposed to beeverything to everybody and so
some other things that I wantedto call out here.
Despite the demoralizingexperience young women are
having in the workplace, thereport found that young women
under the age of 30 still remainhighly ambitious, and we've
talked about women in mid-careeror late career who are like
(21:22):
peacing out because they arefinally exhausted.
But these young women, justlike we were at one point, are
still super ambitious becausethey're like no, we're going to
cut through the noise.
They're also most committed toadvancing gender and racial
diversity out of any other groupof employees.
They're also most likely totake on allyship action to
support women of color.
So women in general areambitious, they want to do the
(21:46):
work, they're committed to doingtheir work, but they're being
cut off as early as entry-levelpositions.
So now what?
It's a huge cultural shift,right?
Just in the US.
We live in a misogynistic,patriarchal culture.
There's been a lot of growth,but there's also a lot of
setbacks.
It's an upcoming election injust a few weeks, so your vote
(22:06):
does make decisions for wheredirections of things like this
go, and right now, the majorityof women are carrying the load.
Actions to consider.
Be an advocate for young women.
Speak up for them, sponsor them, give them opportunities to
lead and run with things.
Speak up when you heardemoralizing language when it
comes to age.
Things like when you reach myage seem harmless, but fact it
(22:28):
isn't.
That's a loaded statement thatassumes the person you're
speaking to does not have thesame experience or skills that
you have.
Then leaders need to trainemployees on not just gender and
racial bias, but age bias aswell.
Fyi, they pointed out that ageis rarely brought up in bias
training.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, we don't like to talk about it, do we?
Yeah?
Or we talk about it as like the60 year old boomer type of
thing, as opposed to what alsohappens and it honestly all.
Everything goes both ways.
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
It's just yeah, it's just so interesting.
And I remember I had someonejust last year interesting, and
I remember I had someone justlast year but casual, like
casual networking conversation,and they made the comment like
when you reach my age, you willhave blank right.
And I'm looking at them and Iwas like I think we are the same
(23:23):
age.
So I was like, oh, I'm 44.
How old are you?
And they were like, oh, I'm 43.
I was like, oh, so I'm actuallyolder than you Just got some
good night cream, retinol baby.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, that's right.
Skins look good.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Anyway, I think it's a funny story.
I don't hold it against thatperson, obviously, but it's just
men, women alike, right, havethe awareness of how your
language perpetuates this in theworkplace and just in society
as a whole.
And, quite honestly, we shouldbe trusting young people more.
They have fresh thinking, freshideas and, quite honestly,
(24:02):
they're not as jaded as folkswho've been through it.
So tap into that energy.
There's so much goodness andrichness there.
It's like why not tap into it,and young women in particular?
Let's help the next generationnot experience the same thing
that so many of us have alreadyexperienced.
Hey, friends, this episode ofyour Work, friends, was hosted
(24:26):
by Francesca Ranieri and myself,mel Plett.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
This episode was produced and edited by Mel Plett
and myself, Francesca Ranieri.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Our theme music is by Pink Zebra and you can follow
us over on all of our socialmedia platforms Instagram,
tiktok, youtube and, if you'reso inclined, join us over on
LinkedIn and our large andgrowing community, and you can
email us at friend at your work,friendscom, or visit us on your
work, friendscom.
Also, folks, please like,subscribe and leave a review.
(24:59):
If you enjoyed this episode,and if you really enjoyed it,
please share with a work friendor two.
Bye.
Another woman talked about being actively coached in
the workplace to appear older byolder female colleagues.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
That happened to me.
That happened to me too.
I was told like you need tosound less West Coast, that's
the way they put it.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I was also told to make sure my hair was more of a
darker brown and to get rid ofany blonde what's?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
going on, mel.
What's up, friend?
Hi, hi, how was the weekend?
How was the weekend?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
It's beautiful in New England right now.
It's also that weird time whereevery New Englander is in a
competition to see who can holdout from turning their heat on.
But I made Robbie turn the heaton.
I will not shiver.
You keep a cold house, what do?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
you do For a batch of honor.
Yeah, I know You're like ithits 55.
You're like yeah time to.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I do the best I can, I can, I layer up.
I got all the fuzzy socks, allthe good things, but I couldn't
beat it.
But it's gorgeous here rightnow.
It's so nice we're at theheight of fall, but it was
relaxing.
I didn't really do much ofanything, I just got some
sunshine on my face and readsome books proud of you.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Proud of you, that's good.
You have to have weekends likethat I have the reminder from a
friend.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Sign off.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Get off the phone, back away from the computer.
Yeah, I think it's good Ifyou're someone that works on the
weekends, even if it's just tocheck in.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I think it's good to have an accountability partner.
I appreciate you.
How was your weekend?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Good, I wanted to do this in Portland for a long time
.
They how was your weekend?
Good, I wanted to do this inportland for a long time.
They have this thing called thepumpkin regatta, where they
core out ginormous pumpkins andthen race them around.
Just, it's funny, you just haveto see it.
You just have to see it.
And there are clearly people inthere that know how to race.
And then jeff and I were likehow do you train for that?
Because you can't just your.
(02:03):
Your boat is a pumpkin you'rebalancing in the pumpkin.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
That doesn't just.
It's a lot of trust in a hollowpumpkin.
A lot of trust pumpkins growdifferently.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
You can't that feel like listen.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Where do you, where do you procure a giant pumpkin?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
for people like grow them, they grow them all year
round.
They grow your own pumpkin.
You fashion your own boat.
I don't know if you leave someof the schmutz in for weight at
the bottom.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I'm sure there's a whole science behind this but so
what I'm hearing is your work,friends, is definitely planting
a pumpkin patch when I'm there,so we can do this race next year
.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
People dress up too.
I had 20 bucks on the nun.
There was, like the break, RayGunn, the break dancer from the
yeah, oh, someone dressed up.
Someone dressed up.
These are all people.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Ray Gunn was there.
Oh my God, now I'm onto this.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, I would say it's a fall from grace?
It is not.
It is a lateral move.
We're back with new week, newheadlines.
Mel, what are you talking abouttoday?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Touching on the latest women in the workplace
report, which is the comboreport by Lean In and McKinsey,
and the headline here is theworkplace doesn't take young
women seriously.
And now they're pushing back.
Yeah, young women, women I loveit and then I have some wtf
(03:33):
news relating back to this womanin the workplace report around
reaching parity for women, butalso the cost of rto from work
life, which came out with a newcost number that they have, and
what that means for employees.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Oh, all right, Cool.
I want to talk about thehottest new employee benefit
divorce, yes, divorce.
Workplaces are seeing a verypositive impact on helping their
employees through divorce.
I want to talk about why, whatit looks like and you probably
already have support for yourdivorce under the hood of some
of your benefits that alreadyexist.
(04:11):
Let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Do you want to start with WTF?
Yeah, yeah, I will say thebiggest thing for me.
So I spent time reading theWomen in the Workplace report.
The biggest thing for me.
So I spent time reading theWomen in the Workplace report,
the headline despite progress,it will take almost 50 years to
reach parity for all women incorporate America.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Like pay parity.
Basically, we're paid the sameas men.
Yeah, got it.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
You and I will be dead when that happens,
hopefully Over our dead bodies.
Yeah, over our dead bodies.
What they were saying is at thecurrent pace, they know it will
take 22 years to reach payparity for white women, and more
than twice as long for women ofcolor specifically, and this is
based on the assumption thatorgs can actually keep the
momentum they've experiencedover the past 10 years, with the
(04:58):
number of women in seniorleadership steadily increasing.
They did know that.
There are signs, though, thatthe pipeline to maintain that
may not be as healthy as thenumbers suggest, and you and I
have talked about this around.
Women are leaving corporateAmerica in droves, right we?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
talked about this a few episodes back right.
Executive women are like peaceout.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
homie Corporate isn't good to them.
We also talked about this a fewepisodes back.
That again, women are notleaving in mass exodus for the
reasons that we've always beentold.
It's long been assumed and toldto everybody that women step
away for family obligations, orwomen are not asking for
(05:40):
promotions like men, and theseare the main reasons we don't
see them in leadership becausethey've left the workforce for a
period and have come back, orthey're just not asking for
these things.
But in reality it's not foreither of those reasons.
It's because the environmentdoesn't support them.
Yeah, I believe that I believethat that is that they end this
(06:04):
report with.
We should be cautiouslyoptimistic about the future if
it weren't for one glaringfinding in this year's study a
company's commitment todiversity declining.
And at a moment when companiesshould be doubling down on their
efforts, there are early signsthey are pulling back.
Their major call to action wasfor orgs to stay as ambitious
(06:25):
and committed to women as womenhave been to their jobs, noting
that they believe corporateAmerica can do better and we
know women deserve better.
I was like heck, yeah, thanksfor making that formal statement
.
The other WTF news cost of RTO.
Want to take a guess on theaverage daily cost for workers?
(06:46):
the average daily cost forworkers who've been asked to
return to the office.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I feel like we talked about this before and it was
somewhere around 50 bucks orsomething like that.
Is that right it was?
It was 50, which 50 bucks is alot of money, a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah, it's a lot of money.
Workers are now spending, onaverage, $61 per day.
If they have to return to theoffice, everything from
transportation costs on average,that's around $27.
Getting a coffee or breakfast$10.
If you're getting lunch, $15.
So all of these costs, whichseem small when they're
(07:24):
independent, collectively areaveraging to be about $61 per
day, meaning that's anadditional $300 per week cost
for those who are required to goback into the office, which
equals out to about $1,200 amonth.
This survey was conducted byOwl Labs and they interviewed
over 2,000 US workers who arenow RTO five days a week, and
(07:48):
there was an emphasis here onthings we commonly talk about,
which is exploring hybridflexibility, how this is
impacting your workers,exploring your benefits and the
subsidies that you are going toprovide in order to cover this
new cost of living expense foryour employees.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
That's such a hit.
When you think about $1,200 amonth, you're thinking like 15K
a year, almost right.
That you're paying out ofpocket just to commute to work
is a huge hit when most peoplein this country are making less
than $70,000 a year, right.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Their big message there was employers who are
demanding RTO need to considerthese expenses, and you can't
forget about the subsidies andpay that you need to supplement
in order to support youremployees.
Yeah, woof.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I know so.
Fast Company had an articlethis week about divorce.
Your newest employee benefitmay be supporting you through
your divorce.
This caught my eye just becausedivorce, honestly, is something
that you and I have both workedwith people that have gotten
divorced, that are going throughdivorce while they're working.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
That's not pretty.
No, it's a toll.
It takes a toll financially,mentally.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, it's a lot, and when you talk to people that
have gone through it to yourvery good point the legal aspect
of it, the legal aspect of it,the financial aspect of it, the
mental health aspect of it, thegrief aspect of it my fun time
is when I watch people gothrough the re-entry and they're
dating 500 people.
There's a whole thing that'shappening with people when
they're going through a divorce,coming out of a divorce, et
(09:35):
cetera.
But what also happens foremployers is there's a massive
productivity hit.
Oh of course, it's one of anemployee's toughest transitions
to go through.
Again, it's going to have amassive impact on the workforce
right, Especially when peopleare in management positions.
40% of employees experience asignificant productivity dip
(09:56):
when they go through a divorceBecause, when you're thinking
about all the legal proceedingsyou need to go through any kind
of child custody thing.
It is just insane.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, divorces can get really ugly.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So, yeah, I can imagine here's the thing really
forward thinking employers arestarting to partner with
organizations like Hello Divorce, for example, that offer
divorce coaches for people tohelp navigate, again, one of the
toughest transitions thatthey'll go through, and a time
(10:29):
where you're going to have apretty massive productivity dip,
and what organizations areprobably trying to do is shorten
that productivity dip.
So what exactly is divorcesupport, you might be asking,
and how could this show up inyour employee benefit package?
It can come in the form ofthose divorce coaches.
Those are specialists that arehelping employees navigate the
legal, the financial, theemotional aspects of divorce.
(10:50):
They're not going to be yourlegal counsel, but they'll help
you navigate it right, becauseit's a black hole.
Mental health services as well,access to therapy, counseling
sessions tailored todivorce-related stress, things
like financial assistance.
For instance, there's aplatform called SupportPay that
streamlined co-parentingexpenses and child support,
(11:10):
which is pretty cool andflexible work schedules right
that allow employees the timethey need for legal meetings or
counseling during work hours.
Those are all ways thatcompanies can support employees
while they're going through adivorce.
Why they might be doing this issomething that I do want to
unpack.
Why do you think companiesmight want to offer this as a
(11:32):
benefit.
What's in it for them?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It comes down to what you said.
It's having an engagedworkforce and if they're pulled
away from these other things,it's going to take a huge hit to
morale.
It takes a hit to productivityretention.
They can retain those employees.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Because typically, and look, I just cut bangs, but
I didn't go through a divorce.
What happens when this shithappens?
You're like I'm changing myhair, I'm doing this, and that
might also include changing yourjob because you're like I just
need a fresh everything whenpeople are going through these
big life moments by the way, Icut my bangs on my own no major
(12:09):
life event.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
All of those things.
It's just really good forbusiness.
To your point, productivitydrops we said this earlier a
drop 40% in the first six monthsof someone getting a divorce.
A drop 40% in the first sixmonths of someone getting a
divorce.
It can persist for up to fiveyears Because again, it's such a
traumatic thing to go throughAbsentee and turnover,
(12:30):
divorce-related stress and allthe meetings you go through.
Employees take an average of 21additional days off on average
within the first year.
That's 2.6 times more than theaverage worker's absenteeism.
And the other thing is themental health and retention.
To your point, offering divorcesupport can help retain your top
talent.
Just period, point blank.
Yeah, it shows you're good atshit.
(12:52):
Absolutely Quick things.
Just to inside scoop here Ifyou are going through a divorce,
if you're thinking about goingthrough a divorce number one,
this is more common than youthink.
You may not realize it, butcompanies have been rolling out
divorce benefits as part ofbroader wellness programs.
Even if it's not advertised, Iwould check in in your benefits
(13:13):
packages.
It might be buried underneaththere.
You could protect your careeras well.
Divorce is a very heavyemotional toll on folks.
This is a professional lifelinefor you.
So if your company offers thesetypes of things, please feel
free to take advantage of them.
They're there for you, rightand honestly.
Companies see this as a win forsure.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, Lean into your resources and your community for
stuff like this.
It's like super important.
So if you have access to thosetypes of resources, a hundred
percent you should use them.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, yeah, divorce.
Who knew, who knew.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Young women in the workplace.
All right, the workplacedoesn't take young women
seriously.
Now they're pushing back.
This was an article written byCarolyn Fairchild on girlbosscom
.
She's the editor-in-chief overat Lean In, and McKinsey
recently put out the latestWomen in the Workplace report.
It's their 10th report, sothey've been studying this for
(14:13):
over a decade now, so they'regetting some really good
information.
What are the headlines here?
Women at all ages experienceageism, no surprise.
And young women experience itthe most of any group of workers
.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Young women.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Young women.
50% of women under the age of30 say their age has had a
negative impact on their careers.
Young women are also twice aslikely as young men to have
their co-workers call attentionto their age unnecessarily, and
you and I have talked about thisissue multiple times from the
last report, which was the callout of the broken rung, where
(14:49):
women are far less likely thanmen men promoted to manager.
Only 81 women were promoted.
Young women are also lesslikely than men to be hired into
entry-level roles.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Get out of the city.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yep.
They also note that womenoverall are far more likely than
men to deal with comments andactions that undermine their
skills and expertise.
Younger women are twice aslikely as younger men to have
their judgment question in theirprimary area of expertise.
They are also more likely to bemistaken for someone at a much
lower level than they actuallyare.
(15:30):
I have a question for you,Francesco.
Have you ever experienced thisas a young woman?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I'm laughing because I've experienced all of those
things, all of those things.
It was very all of the abovemultiple times a year multiple
times a year.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
It's from the beginning of our careers through
now.
Like I, I don't think I've everexperienced a time where I
didn't experience some level ofageism in the workplace.
There's a lot of things thathappen.
It's in the language thatpeople use when they speak to
you.
It's in the assignments thatthey give to you, which are
typically lower level tasks.
I've I have a laundry list ofthings I've experienced and we'd
(16:08):
love to hear from our listenerswhat have you experienced as a
woman in the workplace?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
When I think about some of the people that I've
worked with that have just beenabsolute beasts, like beasts
from a performance perspective,from a smarts perspective.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Young women.
Yeah yeah, women are likeambitious, I want to get into it
.
So they interviewed women tosee what are some of the things
that they experienced, and youand I have our stories.
I'd love to hear our listenerstories, but I'll share a couple
of what they have here.
One woman noted that, becauseof her age, she was asked to be
the person that figures out thisquote, unquote, tiktok thing.
(16:49):
Another woman referred a malefriend so a personal friend of
hers to her organization for hersame job level in a different
department.
She later found out that,although they are same education
, same level of experience, hisstarting salary was
(17:09):
significantly higher than hersand, although he applied for the
same level role, he was offereda more senior position.
Another woman talked aboutbeing actively coached in the
workplace to appear older byolder female colleagues.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
That happened to me.
That happened to me too.
I was told like you need tosound less West Coast, that's
the way they put it.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
I was also told to make sure my hair was more of a
darker brown and to get rid ofany blonde.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Really.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
What the fuck Do you know that?
I did it and I actually made adifference.
I ended up getting a weird joboffer after that.
It's interesting because that'swhat older women have
experienced.
These have been their copingmechanisms and now a new
generation of women are comingup and being offered the same
advice that those women weretold by other women who were
(18:00):
told, who had to just survive inthese environments.
When you think back to 60s, 70s,80s- 90s even early 2000s, when
you and I started, it was likevery different workplaces.
So now it's just thiscontinuing.
You need to change everythingabout yourself to fit in.
They've also been told todiminish their personality.
One woman noted she was told tomake sure she doesn't bring
(18:22):
girlish energy when showingenthusiasm about the work and to
be less cheerful, to talk lessand be more.
But we know that womenexperience the double bias,
right.
So then you become the bitch onthe team.
If you adopt those things, howexhausted are we Okay?
Another woman noted that whenbeing on site with the team she
(18:46):
leads, people automaticallydefer to one of her male
colleagues, assuming he isleading, and in fact in one
instance when she was directingquestions to someone on her
project, that person would onlyrespond to the male on her team,
even after that male teammember reminded him she was the
lead.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
That's happened to me multiple times Happens to me
too.
Yeah, I know, it's just it's.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Damn.
Are we all exhausted yet?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, this does not surprise me.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Like this report doesn't share any new news.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
No, yeah, and that's what pisses me off about it.
It's just you guys.
Come on, this is insane.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
It's just confirmation, all right.
So the so what?
Ageism is an issue for allsexes, we know that.
But for young women inparticular, this can have
potentially long-term damagingeffects on their career.
The article noted womenreporting on missing out on
promotions, pay raises and otheropportunities for advancement.
In the article, dr Amy Diehl, agender equity researcher and
(19:44):
author of Glass Walls, notedquote in the workplace,
referring to someone's young agecan seem like a compliment, but
it's incredibly diminishing.
For women, it's all a way ofpointing out that, unlike the
men, she doesn't belong at work,and if she belongs, she really
just belongs in support roles,not leadership position.
They also emphasized that oftenit's assumed that women aren't
(20:06):
promoted due to not askingstepping away from work, and I
just called this out on the WTFnews.
But again, it's the biasagainst women, including ageism,
that is the main driver oftheir promotion barriers.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, this is my thing.
What we're doing is we'reletting organizations off the
hook every time.
We're like, oh, women areleaving because of the child
debrearing or they're not askingfor it, so we're putting it on
women as opposed to saying no.
We need to do a better job ofredoing how this happens.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Or, if women ask for it, they're too ambitious, yeah,
they're labeled as such andshot down, and you and I both
experienced this in theworkplace.
I've spoken to tons of friends,family clients even, who've
experienced this in theworkplace, and you have to
constantly have this balance ofperfectionism.
That's why that Barbie speechresonates so much with all women
(21:01):
, because you're supposed to beeverything to everybody and so
some other things that I wantedto call out here.
Despite the demoralizingexperience young women are
having in the workplace, thereport found that young women
under the age of 30 still remainhighly ambitious, and we've
talked about women in mid-careeror late career who are like
(21:22):
peacing out because they arefinally exhausted.
But these young women, justlike we were at one point, are
still super ambitious becausethey're like no, we're going to
cut through the noise.
They're also most committed toadvancing gender and racial
diversity out of any other groupof employees.
They're also most likely totake on allyship action to
support women of color.
So women in general areambitious, they want to do the
(21:46):
work, they're committed to doingtheir work, but they're being
cut off as early as entry-levelpositions.
So now what?
It's a huge cultural shift,right?
Just in the US.
We live in a misogynistic,patriarchal culture.
There's been a lot of growth,but there's also a lot of
setbacks.
It's an upcoming election injust a few weeks, so your vote
(22:06):
does make decisions for wheredirections of things like this
go, and right now, the majorityof women are carrying the load.
Actions to consider.
Be an advocate for young women.
Speak up for them, sponsor them, give them opportunities to
lead and run with things.
Speak up when you heardemoralizing language when it
comes to age.
Things like when you reach myage seem harmless, but fact it
(22:28):
isn't.
That's a loaded statement thatassumes the person you're
speaking to does not have thesame experience or skills that
you have.
Then leaders need to trainemployees on not just gender and
racial bias, but age bias aswell.
Fyi, they pointed out that ageis rarely brought up in bias
training.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, we don't like to talk about it, do we?
Yeah?
Or we talk about it as like the60 year old boomer type of
thing, as opposed to what alsohappens and it honestly all.
Everything goes both ways.
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
It's just yeah, it's just so interesting.
And I remember I had someonejust last year interesting, and
I remember I had someone justlast year but casual, like
casual networking conversation,and they made the comment like
when you reach my age, you willhave blank right.
And I'm looking at them and Iwas like I think we are the same
(23:23):
age.
So I was like, oh, I'm 44.
How old are you?
And they were like, oh, I'm 43.
I was like, oh, so I'm actuallyolder than you Just got some
good night cream, retinol baby.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, that's right.
Skins look good.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Anyway, I think it's a funny story.
I don't hold it against thatperson, obviously, but it's just
men, women alike, right, havethe awareness of how your
language perpetuates this in theworkplace and just in society
as a whole.
And, quite honestly, we shouldbe trusting young people more.
They have fresh thinking, freshideas and, quite honestly,
(24:02):
they're not as jaded as folkswho've been through it.
So tap into that energy.
There's so much goodness andrichness there.
It's like why not tap into it,and young women in particular?
Let's help the next generationnot experience the same thing
that so many of us have alreadyexperienced.
Hey, friends, this episode ofyour Work, friends, was hosted
(24:26):
by Francesca Ranieri and myself,mel Plett.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
This episode was produced and edited by Mel Plett
and myself, Francesca Ranieri.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Our theme music is by Pink Zebra and you can follow
us over on all of our socialmedia platforms Instagram,
tiktok, youtube and, if you'reso inclined, join us over on
LinkedIn and our large andgrowing community, and you can
email us at friend at your work,friendscom, or visit us on your
work, friendscom.
Also, folks, please like,subscribe and leave a review.
(24:59):
If you enjoyed this episode,and if you really enjoyed it,
please share with a work friendor two.
Bye.
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