Well, daylight savings time isn't the only thing that doesn't have us sleeping. Kidding!
Record-breaking CEO departures are sending shockwaves through the business world. Meanwhile, half of young professionals feel unprepared for their careers. What's really happening in today's workplace?
In this episode, workplace experts (us, Mel & Francesca) l break down:
⏰ 3:12 Why 56% of young workers feel unprepared for their careers
⏰ 7:35 The skills gap nobody's talking about
⏰ 12:20 Will the job market get worse? 5 key indicators to watch
⏰ 18:40 Would you work in VR? Surprising survey results
⏰ 22:15 Why CEOs are getting fired at record rates (222 in January alone!)
🔥 CAREER ADVICE YOU CAN USE TODAY:
- Why you should start networking in your sophomore year of college
- The soft skills employers actually care about more than technical experience
- How to prepare for economic uncertainty in the job market
- Why you should NEVER wait until senior year to set up LinkedIn
Subscribe for new workplace insights every Tuesdays! Your Work Friends brings you the latest business news and career strategies with authenticity and expert analysis.
CONNECT WITH US: Website: https://yourworkfriends.com and on the socials.
#careeradvice #jobmarket #businessnews #CEOturnover #workplacetrends #careercoaching #graduateadvice #networking #economicuncertainty
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host or the management.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We get these experiences early on.
We're not waiting until peopleare like I did like a big dumb
and be a senior in college andbe like whoops, I got to get an
internship.
Like that.
Don't be like I did the samething and look at this girl now.
Oh yeah, maybe I'm Francescaand I'm Mel.
(00:34):
What's going on, mel?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Listen, the sun is shining past 7 pm.
You can't tell me anything.
There's no such thing as badnews anymore.
Yeah, super fair, super fair.
Until we get through meanything.
There's no such thing as badnews anymore.
Yeah, super fair, super fair.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Until we get through this episode.
What's going on with you?
I had a friend tell me thatmore accidents happen this week
because of daylight savings thanNew Year's or July 4th, because
people are their circadianrhythms are off, they're not
sleeping as well.
Oh, I believe it.
Yeah yeah, more deers get hitin Wisconsin this week than any
other week in the year.
(01:07):
Poor deers, I know.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I know man deer accidents scare me.
For the deer and for the carit's not a good thing yeah, not
a good thing For folks in theNortheast.
We have a really nice drive.
It's called the Merritt Parkway.
I run this through Connecticutand it's very woodsy and
beautiful and windy and hilly.
So there's a lot of deercarcass that are happening.
(01:31):
And I remember at one point Iwas driving home it was like 11
o'clock at night and I sawsomething on the road in front
of me and as I got closer Irealized it was a massive deer
trying to cross the highway andslammed on my brakes and I think
both of us.
He was just staring at me and Iwas just staring at him and
then he jumped across the littlemedian and went into the woods.
(01:52):
Scariest moment of my life.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
You see those where the hubs go through the
windshield.
Yeah, it's not pretty.
It's not pretty, I don't know,but spring is here, I'm all for
it.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I Pretty it's not pretty, I don't know.
But spring is here, I'm all forit.
I'm ready for the change inseason.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, I'm ready for summer.
I've been ready for summersince January 2nd.
Yeah, holidays are over.
I'm done, let's go, let's getinto summer.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I'm in that mode too.
It's like all right December'sdone.
Where's the sunshine?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, yeah, I need renewal, new beginnings, yeah
yeah, gym tan laundry, all of it, all of it.
Yeah, we're back with new week,new headlines.
Mella, what are you talkingabout today?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I have two stories Half of young people are
concerned that they lack careerskills, experiences and
qualifications, and I'm alsotalking about a study that came
out and that said two in fiveAmerican employees are open to
virtual reality workspaces.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Oh, all right, that's about equal to return to office
.
What about you?
All right, I have two storiesas well.
Why are so many CEOs gettingthe boot, and will the job
market get worse?
I have five key factors thatyou might want to keep your eye
on.
That'll let us know.
It's getting worse, or maybeit's getting better.
All right, let's do it.
Let's do it, it's gettingbetter.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
All right, let's do it.
I'm going to jump into ouryoung folks here, so this
article came out earlier thisweek.
Half of young people areconcerned that they lack career
skills, experience orqualifications.
So what's happening?
Widespread self-doubt ishappening for our younger folks.
Over 56% of young people age 16to 25 feel they lack the
(03:28):
necessary skills, experience,qualifications for the desired
careers they're going after.
There's also a guidance gaphappening.
Nearly two in five, so 39% ofyoung individuals are uncertain
about how to find a job afterleaving school.
Both you and I have feelingsabout this one.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Very strong.
Yes, yes, this all tracks.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Mental health is playing a huge role.
Approximately 30% haveexperienced mental health issues
due to unemployment.
53% report that prolongedunemployment is worsening their
self-esteem, and you and I alsotalk about this and needing to
disconnect your self-worth froma job.
Because they're differentMisalignment with employers.
There's a huge disconnectbetween employers' emphasis on
(04:15):
soft skills and young people'sfocus on industry experience, so
it's leading to missedopportunities here and then.
The role of HR has anopportunity here to bridge this
gap by adopting moreskills-based hiring, focusing on
soft skills and engaging withlocal communities to offer work
experiences.
What do you think about thisnews?
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Listen, these are all things that I think you and I
when we were entering theworkforce.
We entered the workforce aroundright after 9-11 in 2001, 2002.
It wasn't super pretty.
I think you can look at otherworkforces that entered around
2008.
Not a pretty job market.
This is not a pretty job marketand, having said that, I think
(04:58):
it's getting worse, per yourdata.
I also think it's probablygoing to take a village of
things to change it.
It bums me out when I hearthings around confidence or
anxiety or mental health, andthen to also keep hearing that
potentially people don't knowhow to enter the job market or
we have some things in theflywheel we can fix where we've
(05:18):
known this for a really longtime.
Let's get busy fixing it.
It's not getting any better.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, I know, I think one of the things that irks me
most is when you see entry-leveljobs that require five years of
experience and you're like,okay, let's get real.
We can't tell our young peoplego out and get a four-year
degree and then we don't havejobs for them when they graduate
.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
It's just a failing system in general, the biggest
tell for me is if you'rereaching your senior year of
college and you haven't had anyinternship or any work
experience in what you'regraduating in, that to me begs
the question of the system ofcollege.
Right, and at the end of theday, I'll cut to the big chase
(06:01):
on this.
My belief is that people shouldbe starting internships
sophomore year of college sothey have quite a bit of work
experience and knowledge of whatthat industry is like before
they even graduate.
Because it's not only aboutwork experience, it's also about
do you even freaking like this?
Is this job even your thing?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I'm very interested in more of an apprentice model
for universities especially.
Most college students areexpected to pick a major
sophomore year and then you'vegot to commit to that major.
Who, at 19, knows what theywant to be doing?
Nobody.
I coach college students.
I love that audience.
(06:41):
I've worked with hundreds ofcollege students when I worked
in campus recruiting.
They're doing the best they canto figure out what they even
want in life, while trying totune out the noise of like
parents, friends, teachers,professors, everyone who has an
opinion about how they shouldspend the rest of their life.
And it's hard.
There's almost like a gap thatshould happen between high
(07:02):
school graduation and enteringcollege and then, when you're in
college to your good point,getting into those externship or
apprenticeship opportunitiesbefore you get into a major so
you can test and try what fits.
It might not be perfect but itwill.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Better system than what we have, I think going back
to the confidence issue, whichcan cause anxiety.
Going back to the root cause ofthat mental health is
unemployment.
To me, if you're allowingpeople to graduate with years of
experience, if you're allowingpeople to graduate with a
network of people that they canpull on, it doesn't fully seat
those issues, but it sure ashell helps it and I feel like
(07:39):
we're doing a disservice to ourkids to not let them have that.
And, by the way, this is not aknock on your career services
groups or departments.
I think they're killing it anddoing the best they can with
what they've got.
I think we need to flood moremoney into that and we need to
change the process so we getthese experiences early on.
(08:00):
We're not waiting until peopleare like I did, like a big dumb
and be a senior in my collegeand be like, whoops, I got to
get an internship.
Like that, Don't be like I didthe same thing.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And look at this Maybe I should do that, but if
you didn't have the guidance,not everyone's entering college
at the same socioeconomic level,experience level, at the same
socioeconomic level, experiencelevel, background level, and not
everyone's entering with theseexisting networks and systems.
Not everyone has parents whohave friends who will guide you.
(08:33):
Not everyone has mentors.
So there's a lot of folks whoare just trying to figure it all
out.
I don't know.
I think increase the budgetsfor those career services
offices because, as you pointedout and I've worked with so many
career services offices theyare doing so much with so little
.
It's amazing what they'vealready accomplished.
But give them money, give themresources so it can make these
(08:56):
experiences better and it onlyboosts the university's
effectiveness right when you canshow that you've placed people
from going to your university.
So yeah, you want it.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
You want to return an investment for all the tuition.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
A hundred percent.
Here's what I'll leave you withYoung folks.
Just put it on my littlecoochette, I'm just going to
share with you.
Nobody ever feels ready.
It's not just you.
If you think everyone else hasit all figured out, we don't.
Let me introduce you to myself,francesca.
And then everyone feelsimposter syndrome.
(09:33):
I am 45 and I still have peers.
I have people that I've workedwith in the C-suite who have
shared their imposter syndrome.
It never goes away.
Not to scare anybody, itdoesn't go away.
It's internal and somethingthat you just have to like take
a breather, take a beat and workthrough.
Employers know you're stilllearning, so there's no
expectation you come in and knowit all.
(09:54):
Focus on those soft skills.
Make sure you're really leaninginto that.
What you know.
You bring curiosity.
You bring problem solving.
You bring the ability to Googlethings quickly.
Bring curiosity.
You bring problem solving.
You bring the ability to Googlethings quickly and you know how
to convert WordDocs into a PDF.
So lean into that.
Soft skills are your secretweapon.
So if there are any young folkslistening to this, you don't
(10:15):
need 10 years of experience.
But guess what?
Are you good at communicating?
Are you good at working in ateam.
Are you good at takinginitiative?
Those are gold.
So make sure that you'retapping into that and that
you're highlighting thatEmployers actually care more
about these things than theExcel formula that you don't
totally understand.
You can Google that and figureit out right.
And then experience comes in amillion different forms
(10:36):
internships, volunteering, sideprojects all of it counts.
You don't need a fancy title toprove you have skills.
Did you organize a fundraiser?
Then you have skills.
Did you start a side hustlewith your friends?
Did you run a club?
That's leadership.
So lean into that.
I guess from the employer side,please look at your job
postings.
If you have anything that'sentry level and needs five years
(10:58):
of experience, cut that shitout.
That's arbitrary and doesn'tmake sense.
Mentorship if you can offermore mentorship opportunities
and then talk with your youngemployees about growth
opportunities it doesn't have tobe their career path, but just
tell them your story.
Get to know some young peopleand really have some hard to
hurt conversations so that theycan lean into you and you can
(11:19):
lean into them and understandthem better.
Sage advice, that's that.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
What would you add?
Don't wait until your senioryear to start your Handshake
account or your LinkedIn account.
Somewhere around junior year,right, somewhere in junior year.
Just get your ass on Handshake,get your ass on LinkedIn, start
connecting with every singleperson you know neighbors, mom
and dad's friends, cousins,every kid that's in your frat
(11:46):
sorority, I don't care whateverthe rando kid that's in your
ceramics class.
Connect with as many people asyou can.
Your network has a bit of acompound interest.
Start your network now.
Just connect in, call me in 10years and thank me.
Yeah, your network is your networth.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Baby, Get that tattooed on your forehead Pretty
much.
Oh, what's going on with?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
the job market.
Listen.
Will the job market get worse?
There are five key factors thatI'm looking at that are going
to tell you yay or nay, and Ireally think most people need to
look at this, because we hadthe jobs report come out last
week the jolt report as well.
There are some interestingthings happening in the job
market and it's really at acrossroad.
(12:31):
We have steady job growth, butthen we have challenges like
underemployment and a lot ofeconomic uncertainties.
Do you feel this in the news,Mel?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yes, the Atlantic came out with that frozen job
market article, right, yes, andtalked about the trifecta that's
happening where less jobopenings, people aren't leaving
and organizations are terrifiedof overhiring right now, that's
right.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
There are a few others I need people to look at,
because here's the deal Stayinginformed, staying adaptable, is
gonna be crucial for employeesnavigating this really evolving
landscape, sometimes evolvingwithin the day, and so keeping
your eye on these five things isreally going to give you a
sense of how stable is this ornot.
(13:16):
Number one is looking at thingslike what is going on with the
federal workforce reductions.
Okay, we've heard DOGE go inand get rid of 50% of the
Department of Education, usaid,et cetera.
Right, that'll continue.
By the way, the federalgovernment is the largest
employer in the United States.
Yeah, the unemployment rate inMarch is going to go through the
(13:41):
roof because of this.
So this is going to be a reallybig thing because the Trump
administration has implementedsignificant layoffs across
various federal agenciesDepartment of Health and Human
Services, education, usaid.
These cuts have raised a lot ofconcerns about the impact on
public services and the economy.
(14:02):
They are the largest because wedon't know what's going to
happen to some of these services.
That is one thing I would watchin terms of what happens
because of that impact.
That's number one.
Number two is trade policy.
We've seen tariffs get put onand, in the same day, get taken
off.
We've seen the tariffs get puton and in the same day.
(14:24):
The definition of uncertaintywhat do corporations hate more
than anything?
It is uncertainty, because whencorporations are uncertain,
just like you might be, ifyou're uncertain if you're going
to lose your job, if you'reuncertain if you're going to
have to take a pay cut, what areyou going to do?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah, you're looking at your budget and where you're
going to cut.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You're not going to hire.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
They're not hiring, it's going to be a hiring freeze
.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
It's going to be a hiring freeze, it's going to be
an efficiency freeze, it's goingto be a lack of investment, and
so that has a big deal with thejob market.
Once we have some stabilitywith what's happening with
tariffs, even if they stay put,that's good for the job market.
If it keeps being all over thefucking place, that's bad for
(15:15):
the job market because of theuncertainty.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, this is going to be a roller coaster for a
while, and even all of thefederal government's being sued
and having to reinstate thosejobs too.
So there's it's going to feellike what am I on for quite a
while.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, it's so clumsy, but it's a ride.
It's a ride.
The other thing because of thateconomic uncertainty, you have
layoffs in major corporations.
Sometimes this is for justblock and tackle efficiency that
they were going to do anyway.
I'm looking at you Meta, I'mlooking at you Starbucks, I'm
looking at you Microsoft.
That's continued to happen in2025.
(15:52):
If you start to see more andmore layoffs because of the
economic uncertainty, that'sgoing to tell you the job market
obviously is going to get worse.
But again, if we see it tickingup, no bueno.
By the way, when Trump wasfirst announced, most
forecasters were thinking thatthe job market was going to pick
up very steadily around thistime.
(16:13):
It should have been waystronger than it is, because we
thought it would be more certain, because we thought the Trump
administration would be verybusiness friendly.
But because of all thisuncertainty, if you continue to
see massive layoffs happening,again, no bueno.
The other thing to look at thiscame out in the JOLTS report
the increase in part-timeworkers seeking full-time
(16:36):
positions.
So there's a growing trend ofpart-time workers seeking
full-time employment.
Recent reports indicate thatmore part-time workers are
expressing a desire forfull-time, but they can't find
it.
That increased by 10% over thelast year.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
My hypothesis there is there are a lot of people who
were already laid off, who tookpart-time positions because
they already couldn't findfull-time positions, and now
we're seeing an increase inthose same people who were
formerly full-time, then tookpart-time and now they want to
go back to full-time.
So that number is going to keepincreasing because so many
people have no choice but totake multiple part-time jobs
(17:12):
just to get some semblance offinancial wholeness, and they're
likely not getting that.
They don't get the benefits, sothey likely lost benefits and
now they're trying to claw itback to it, yeah, and if they
cut Medicaid, this is going tobe fascinating.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Here's my last one.
Again, we talked about jobopenings slowing down.
We talked about the tariffpolicy.
We talked about workforcereductions, part-time workers.
The last one that's interestingand a little bit of a nuance
point, but I think it'ssomething I'm always really
curious about, is the rise incredit card defaults.
Financial stress amongconsumers is evident and it's
increasing.
In the number of Americansdefaulting on credit card debt,
it actually just rose again.
(17:48):
They've found a rise indefaults reflecting broader
economic challenges andpotential implications for
consumer spending.
You're starting to also seethings like Walmart not
reporting as good of earnings asthey thought.
Obviously, target not reportingas good of earnings as they
thought.
Some of that might be becauseof the boycotts.
They're saying it's becausepeople are spending less on
(18:09):
discretionary items.
But when Walmart, which is thelow-cost provider, is saying,
hey, we're not going to meetwhat we thought we were going to
meet because people aren'tspending as much, when the rise
in credit card defaults ishappening as well, that means
people are holding onto theircash.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
They're holding onto their cash and they're likely
having to use credit cards justto pay for essentials.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So these are the things that I'm looking at.
If these get better, great, Ihave a prediction on what's
going to happen with the jobmarket.
What's yours?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Oh, I think it's going to work way worse before
it gets better.
I don't.
I think it'll be maybe aroundJune before we start to see
maybe some positivity coming outof the job market.
But what just occurred in thelast three months is going to
take three months to correct orlevel out.
I don't think we'll start tosee anything until summer.
(19:00):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, I'm absolutely in the same place.
I think it's going to beSeptember if we're doing prices,
right pricing, okay, miss.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Dollar.
Okay, miss Dollar, that's a 501.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
You want a car.
All of this takes way longer tocorrect.
It typically takes way longerto correct than it is to get.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I'm trying to be optimistic.
It's going to be a minute.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I it's going to be a minute.
It's going to be a minute.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I think it's going to be a minute.
I think it's going to be tough,but I think this is where
everyone keeps talking about theimportance of community and
finding community and peoplethat you can lean on, and it
absolutely is not a reflectionof people's value in the
marketplace.
I think that's the most ifyou're someone who's been
impacted.
This is not a reflection ofyour value, your skills, your
capabilities, your self-worth.
(19:50):
You're worthy just because youexist as a human being.
Right and work is justsomething that helps pay the
bills and hopefully you get goodthings out of it too, Like you
get to grow and learn and buildrelationships.
But outside of that, if this issomething that you've been
impacted by, it's now time tolean into communities, for
support is something that you'vebeen impacted by.
(20:12):
It's now time to lean intocommunities for support.
This was just a littlesurprising to me.
It was a fun little articletalking about two and five
American employees are open tovirtual reality workspaces.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What do you think about this?
Not for you, you know.
Listen, with the headsets.
Here's the thing.
I get it.
I get it.
First of all, I get reallysweaty in those headsets.
I don't.
I don't like the schmutz withany kind of ar vr.
Here's my deal.
To me, it's a hardware gameuntil these things become light
and easy on your face.
Ie like even lighter and easierthan the meta ray-ban glasses.
(20:43):
it's literally like a lighterand easier than the meta Ray-Ban
glasses.
It's literally like a lens andit feels like a heads up display
minority report kind of style.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Hardware is way too clunky forme, but I get it and I get why
people would say it.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, I'm with you a few years.
I went to South by Southwest afew years ago and they had an
amazing like tech showcase, asof course they did.
I did a demonstration of howyou can attend a global meeting
in the room and it was VR andyou sat in the space and it felt
like you were physically at atable with your colleagues in
the room because you could seethem and see their face and
(21:20):
interact.
I thought that was reallyinteresting, but the headset
itself, like I, was sodistracted by the weight of that
on my face and you know what myfear is having to wear that for
eight hours a day that was therequirement.
Yes, act.
The ring around your eyes yeah,just a rash.
No, you know how everyone talksabout that dent that they have
(21:43):
on their pinky finger fromholding their phone the wrong
way.
Imagine you just start gettinga dent on your face.
We're really going to lookstrange in a couple hundred
years.
Yeah, I'm with you on this.
I love tech, but I'm very much.
What do people need to do andwhat's the best experience to
support them?
And tech should be the lastthing.
(22:04):
It's not the solution toeverything, but just figuring
out is this the right solution?
I think that's it.
It's fun to play with.
So a recent YouGov surveyrevealed 40% of American office
workers are open to working fromhome using a VR headset, while
37% still prefer traditionalin-person office interactions.
Makes sense.
Among professionals age 18 to29, 57% prefer working from home
(22:29):
using a VR headset.
Look, that group in particularwas impacted by COVID in a very
different way.
They're growing up in a verydifferent environment, so I get
it.
I can see it.
Compared to 35% of folks whofavor traditional office
settings, only 31% of those age45 to 64 support virtual
workspaces and nearly half 48%preferring in-person
(22:52):
interactions.
For workers age 65 and older,only 18% favor a VR office and
64% the traditional environment.
So the data is indicating thereis significant openness to this
among younger professionals,suggesting that it's something
workplaces should explore, but Ithink we're still early days, I
don't know.
I'm curious to hear fromlisteners and see what they
(23:14):
think about this.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, me too, me too, yeah, I'm for it.
I'm for it if it can beimmersive and if it's solving
the problem we really need to besolving.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Correct.
We talked with TwennaBlondstrom about tech debt,
human debt in the workplace.
These are the techno stress.
We talked about that topic.
I can't imagine the changemanagement for something like
this right now, when everyone'scomplaining just about tech
overload with things like Zoomand how that's draining their
soul.
We'll see.
We'll see what happens.
We'll see what happens, gottabuy that real estate and
(23:46):
metaverse.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Is that even for sale anymore?
Did we just?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
is that for sale anymore?
Whatever?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
happened to that whatever?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
happened metaverse.
Meanwhile, they're like we'restill thriving.
Where are you?
Speaker 1 (24:01):
all right.
Last one, last one.
Okay, why are so many ceosgetting the boot?
Last week, a report out fromChallenger Gray and Christmas
let us know that 2024 wasn'tjust a rough year for CEOs.
It was actually the roughestNearly 2000 corner offices
emptied out, and 2025 is alreadybreaking records because we
(24:22):
have the January report in.
Here's the deal the job of aCEO is becoming way less stable
and high pressure Boards areacting faster to replace leaders
, particularly inconsumer-facing industries.
Okay, just like the job market.
Factors like increased investorscrutiny, rapid market shifts,
higher performance expectationsor shortening CEO lifespans and
(24:43):
the idea of this long-term,visionary CEO is honestly just
becoming super rare and beingreplaced by shorter, higher
impact life cycles.
It's fascinating.
Some stats for you coming outof.
It's a combination of blanketstats and a challenger grand
Christmas report.
In 2024, we saw a ton of CEOdepartures Nike's John Donahoe,
(25:03):
the Starbucks CEO.
In 2025, we're seeing it.
Nissan you texted me last week,right?
Yeah, no slowdown.
January saw a record 222 CEOsout.
That's up 73% from just lastyear.
Wow, which is significant.
And the hardest hit industriesretail, tech, finance.
(25:25):
What's the trend here?
So CEO tenure has declined overthe past decade.
The median tenure among S&P 500, ceos dropped 20% from six
years to 4.8 years.
Oh, wow, yes, and CEO turnoveris happening faster than before
again, with leaders staying 34%less time since the peak in 2017
(25:47):
.
So it's shifting.
Now I will say 2017, for somerando reason, ceos just stayed
put.
But that trend ever since thenis bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye,
bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Our CEOs just give me the golden parachute, I'm out.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
There's a couple of things happening here Per the
report.
What's driving the exodus isboards just have a shorter fuse.
They're expecting way higherperformance for what they're
getting, and when they're notgetting it, they're making that
action to get rid of the CEOmuch more quickly than they used
to.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
You and I've talked about this.
You and I've talked aboutshareholder power here.
Right, and how shareholders,like any stakeholders, need
expectations managed and is thatreally happening?
And how much of shareholderpressure and we've seen it
recently with some of the DEIdecisions right, but when is
(26:39):
shareholder pressure really goodand when is it actually more
disruptive and harmful to abusiness?
So where I'm going with this,we interviewed Ashley Goodall
about the problem with changeand when you have these CEO
cycles shift so frequently andso fast, all that does is create
more of that what Ashley callsthe life in the blender for your
(27:01):
organization, which stiflesinnovation, it stifles business,
it stifles growth.
So it's just constant churn andI don't know.
I'm curious about shareholderpower here, and when do you say
no to shareholders as a board tohave more stability as a
business?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I think that's going to be a very important question
to ask, especially now.
Think about all the economicuncertainty that was happening
in 2024.
And think about all theeconomic uncertainty that was
happening in 2024.
Right, and think about all theeconomic uncertainty that's just
happened in the last few months.
Okay, it is exponentially morein 2025 than it was in 2024.
And, to your very point, theexpectation of shareholder
(27:40):
return, quarter after quarter,remains, and so I think this
situation is going to get quitea bit worse, because boards
still are acting like there'ssome sort of unicorn in every
CEO and that somebody is goingto be able to come in and turn
this shit around on a dime andto your very good point.
It just doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, change takes time.
It takes a year, maybe more,just to understand the inside
and out of an organization.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So a new CEO coming in trying to understand the lay
of the land even if they'resomeone that's been there for a
long time, I don't know just tounderstand takes a year what
you're going to see and you'realready starting to see it when
you look at what's happening atStarbucks, right, with the CEO
coming in and saying we'relaying folks off, we need to do
one, two and three right away.
He has not been in tenure formore than six months.
(28:30):
He's making big moves rightaway.
You're seeing it at Gap, too,with the idea of bringing back
the 90s brand and a lot ofrepositioning the brand as a
place to be in the culturalconversation.
Right, they're making big movesvery quickly.
What that does sometimes to theemployee experience in terms of
being in the blender is it goes.
(28:52):
So if this is a Vitamix in 2024, if we were on five, now we're
on eight, because the marketloves the big moves, because in
the big moves is the hope ofchange and is the hope of
returns until it's not there.
But if you're looking at thingsquarter by quarter, you're like,
yeah, this is going to be great, so I think we're in for a
(29:13):
continued blender.
It's interesting to look at,though, and I think there is a
positive here, right, okay, oneof the things that I thought was
really interesting is whenyou're looking at who these CEOs
are getting replaced by.
On one hand, it's not greatbecause men are more and more
taking over the CEO roles.
The CEO gender gap isn'tclosing, it's widening.
When women CEOs leave, 55 arereplaced by men.
(29:36):
When men leave, only 18% arereplaced by women.
So, again, the smallrepresentation of women is
dwindling.
There's that On the positive,though.
There's a lot of internalsuccession happening.
77% of the time, theseappointments are by someone
internally, and I think that'soh, that's great.
Yeah, I agree.
(29:56):
Internal succession they knowthe culture.
They're probably working on anagenda that's been in place.
Again, for employees, sometimesit is much less of a blender,
and it also shows that there'sgrowth and development and your
talent management team and thosecompanies is working because
you are ready to go successor.
So kudos to those folks.
Yes, for employees, you mightbe a little bit in the blender.
(30:18):
Yes, you might have someinstability, but the other thing
I will let you know is thatthere are always opportunities.
Never let a crisis go to waste.
There are opportunities formovers and shakers.
With change comes opportunities, and the employee that can
adapt quickly and findthemselves in position of
influence are the ones that aregoing to win.
So look for those opportunities.
They will be there.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
This episode was produced, edited and all things
by us myself, mel Plett andFrancesca Rineri.
Our music is by Pink Zebra andif you loved this conversation
and you want to contribute yourthoughts with us, please do.
You can visit us atyourworkfriendscom, but you can
(31:03):
also join us over on LinkedIn.
We have a LinkedIn communitypage and we have the TikToks and
Instagram.
So please join us in thesocials and if you like this and
you've benefited from thisepisode and you think someone
else can benefit from thisepisode, please rate and
subscribe.
We'd really appreciate it.
That helps keep us going.
(31:23):
Take care, friends.
Bye friends.
We get these experiences early on.
We're not waiting until peopleare like I did like a big dumb
and be a senior in college andbe like whoops, I got to get an
internship.
Like that.
Don't be like I did the samething and look at this girl now.
Oh yeah, maybe I'm Francescaand I'm Mel.
(00:34):
What's going on, mel?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Listen, the sun is shining past 7 pm.
You can't tell me anything.
There's no such thing as badnews anymore.
Yeah, super fair, super fair.
Until we get through meanything.
There's no such thing as badnews anymore.
Yeah, super fair, super fair.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Until we get through this episode.
What's going on with you?
I had a friend tell me thatmore accidents happen this week
because of daylight savings thanNew Year's or July 4th, because
people are their circadianrhythms are off, they're not
sleeping as well.
Oh, I believe it.
Yeah yeah, more deers get hitin Wisconsin this week than any
other week in the year.
(01:07):
Poor deers, I know.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I know man deer accidents scare me.
For the deer and for the carit's not a good thing yeah, not
a good thing For folks in theNortheast.
We have a really nice drive.
It's called the Merritt Parkway.
I run this through Connecticutand it's very woodsy and
beautiful and windy and hilly.
So there's a lot of deercarcass that are happening.
(01:31):
And I remember at one point Iwas driving home it was like 11
o'clock at night and I sawsomething on the road in front
of me and as I got closer Irealized it was a massive deer
trying to cross the highway andslammed on my brakes and I think
both of us.
He was just staring at me and Iwas just staring at him and
then he jumped across the littlemedian and went into the woods.
(01:52):
Scariest moment of my life.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
You see those where the hubs go through the
windshield.
Yeah, it's not pretty.
It's not pretty, I don't know,but spring is here, I'm all for
it.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I Pretty it's not pretty, I don't know.
But spring is here, I'm all forit.
I'm ready for the change inseason.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, I'm ready for summer.
I've been ready for summersince January 2nd.
Yeah, holidays are over.
I'm done, let's go, let's getinto summer.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I'm in that mode too.
It's like all right December'sdone.
Where's the sunshine?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, yeah, I need renewal, new beginnings, yeah
yeah, gym tan laundry, all of it, all of it.
Yeah, we're back with new week,new headlines.
Mella, what are you talkingabout today?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I have two stories Half of young people are
concerned that they lack careerskills, experiences and
qualifications, and I'm alsotalking about a study that came
out and that said two in fiveAmerican employees are open to
virtual reality workspaces.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Oh, all right, that's about equal to return to office
.
What about you?
All right, I have two storiesas well.
Why are so many CEOs gettingthe boot, and will the job
market get worse?
I have five key factors thatyou might want to keep your eye
on.
That'll let us know.
It's getting worse, or maybeit's getting better.
All right, let's do it.
Let's do it, it's gettingbetter.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
All right, let's do it.
I'm going to jump into ouryoung folks here, so this
article came out earlier thisweek.
Half of young people areconcerned that they lack career
skills, experience orqualifications.
So what's happening?
Widespread self-doubt ishappening for our younger folks.
Over 56% of young people age 16to 25 feel they lack the
(03:28):
necessary skills, experience,qualifications for the desired
careers they're going after.
There's also a guidance gaphappening.
Nearly two in five, so 39% ofyoung individuals are uncertain
about how to find a job afterleaving school.
Both you and I have feelingsabout this one.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Very strong.
Yes, yes, this all tracks.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Mental health is playing a huge role.
Approximately 30% haveexperienced mental health issues
due to unemployment.
53% report that prolongedunemployment is worsening their
self-esteem, and you and I alsotalk about this and needing to
disconnect your self-worth froma job.
Because they're differentMisalignment with employers.
There's a huge disconnectbetween employers' emphasis on
(04:15):
soft skills and young people'sfocus on industry experience, so
it's leading to missedopportunities here and then.
The role of HR has anopportunity here to bridge this
gap by adopting moreskills-based hiring, focusing on
soft skills and engaging withlocal communities to offer work
experiences.
What do you think about thisnews?
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Listen, these are all things that I think you and I
when we were entering theworkforce.
We entered the workforce aroundright after 9-11 in 2001, 2002.
It wasn't super pretty.
I think you can look at otherworkforces that entered around
2008.
Not a pretty job market.
This is not a pretty job marketand, having said that, I think
(04:58):
it's getting worse, per yourdata.
I also think it's probablygoing to take a village of
things to change it.
It bums me out when I hearthings around confidence or
anxiety or mental health, andthen to also keep hearing that
potentially people don't knowhow to enter the job market or
we have some things in theflywheel we can fix where we've
(05:18):
known this for a really longtime.
Let's get busy fixing it.
It's not getting any better.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, I know, I think one of the things that irks me
most is when you see entry-leveljobs that require five years of
experience and you're like,okay, let's get real.
We can't tell our young peoplego out and get a four-year
degree and then we don't havejobs for them when they graduate
.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
It's just a failing system in general, the biggest
tell for me is if you'rereaching your senior year of
college and you haven't had anyinternship or any work
experience in what you'regraduating in, that to me begs
the question of the system ofcollege.
Right, and at the end of theday, I'll cut to the big chase
(06:01):
on this.
My belief is that people shouldbe starting internships
sophomore year of college sothey have quite a bit of work
experience and knowledge of whatthat industry is like before
they even graduate.
Because it's not only aboutwork experience, it's also about
do you even freaking like this?
Is this job even your thing?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I'm very interested in more of an apprentice model
for universities especially.
Most college students areexpected to pick a major
sophomore year and then you'vegot to commit to that major.
Who, at 19, knows what theywant to be doing?
Nobody.
I coach college students.
I love that audience.
(06:41):
I've worked with hundreds ofcollege students when I worked
in campus recruiting.
They're doing the best they canto figure out what they even
want in life, while trying totune out the noise of like
parents, friends, teachers,professors, everyone who has an
opinion about how they shouldspend the rest of their life.
And it's hard.
There's almost like a gap thatshould happen between high
(07:02):
school graduation and enteringcollege and then, when you're in
college to your good point,getting into those externship or
apprenticeship opportunitiesbefore you get into a major so
you can test and try what fits.
It might not be perfect but itwill.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Better system than what we have, I think going back
to the confidence issue, whichcan cause anxiety.
Going back to the root cause ofthat mental health is
unemployment.
To me, if you're allowingpeople to graduate with years of
experience, if you're allowingpeople to graduate with a
network of people that they canpull on, it doesn't fully seat
those issues, but it sure ashell helps it and I feel like
(07:39):
we're doing a disservice to ourkids to not let them have that.
And, by the way, this is not aknock on your career services
groups or departments.
I think they're killing it anddoing the best they can with
what they've got.
I think we need to flood moremoney into that and we need to
change the process so we getthese experiences early on.
(08:00):
We're not waiting until peopleare like I did, like a big dumb
and be a senior in my collegeand be like, whoops, I got to
get an internship.
Like that, Don't be like I didthe same thing.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And look at this Maybe I should do that, but if
you didn't have the guidance,not everyone's entering college
at the same socioeconomic level,experience level, at the same
socioeconomic level, experiencelevel, background level, and not
everyone's entering with theseexisting networks and systems.
Not everyone has parents whohave friends who will guide you.
(08:33):
Not everyone has mentors.
So there's a lot of folks whoare just trying to figure it all
out.
I don't know.
I think increase the budgetsfor those career services
offices because, as you pointedout and I've worked with so many
career services offices theyare doing so much with so little
.
It's amazing what they'vealready accomplished.
But give them money, give themresources so it can make these
(08:56):
experiences better and it onlyboosts the university's
effectiveness right when you canshow that you've placed people
from going to your university.
So yeah, you want it.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
You want to return an investment for all the tuition.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
A hundred percent.
Here's what I'll leave you withYoung folks.
Just put it on my littlecoochette, I'm just going to
share with you.
Nobody ever feels ready.
It's not just you.
If you think everyone else hasit all figured out, we don't.
Let me introduce you to myself,francesca.
And then everyone feelsimposter syndrome.
(09:33):
I am 45 and I still have peers.
I have people that I've workedwith in the C-suite who have
shared their imposter syndrome.
It never goes away.
Not to scare anybody, itdoesn't go away.
It's internal and somethingthat you just have to like take
a breather, take a beat and workthrough.
Employers know you're stilllearning, so there's no
expectation you come in and knowit all.
(09:54):
Focus on those soft skills.
Make sure you're really leaninginto that.
What you know.
You bring curiosity.
You bring problem solving.
You bring the ability to Googlethings quickly.
Bring curiosity.
You bring problem solving.
You bring the ability to Googlethings quickly and you know how
to convert WordDocs into a PDF.
So lean into that.
Soft skills are your secretweapon.
So if there are any young folkslistening to this, you don't
(10:15):
need 10 years of experience.
But guess what?
Are you good at communicating?
Are you good at working in ateam.
Are you good at takinginitiative?
Those are gold.
So make sure that you'retapping into that and that
you're highlighting thatEmployers actually care more
about these things than theExcel formula that you don't
totally understand.
You can Google that and figureit out right.
And then experience comes in amillion different forms
(10:36):
internships, volunteering, sideprojects all of it counts.
You don't need a fancy title toprove you have skills.
Did you organize a fundraiser?
Then you have skills.
Did you start a side hustlewith your friends?
Did you run a club?
That's leadership.
So lean into that.
I guess from the employer side,please look at your job
postings.
If you have anything that'sentry level and needs five years
(10:58):
of experience, cut that shitout.
That's arbitrary and doesn'tmake sense.
Mentorship if you can offermore mentorship opportunities
and then talk with your youngemployees about growth
opportunities it doesn't have tobe their career path, but just
tell them your story.
Get to know some young peopleand really have some hard to
hurt conversations so that theycan lean into you and you can
(11:19):
lean into them and understandthem better.
Sage advice, that's that.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
What would you add?
Don't wait until your senioryear to start your Handshake
account or your LinkedIn account.
Somewhere around junior year,right, somewhere in junior year.
Just get your ass on Handshake,get your ass on LinkedIn, start
connecting with every singleperson you know neighbors, mom
and dad's friends, cousins,every kid that's in your frat
(11:46):
sorority, I don't care whateverthe rando kid that's in your
ceramics class.
Connect with as many people asyou can.
Your network has a bit of acompound interest.
Start your network now.
Just connect in, call me in 10years and thank me.
Yeah, your network is your networth.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Baby, Get that tattooed on your forehead Pretty
much.
Oh, what's going on with?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
the job market.
Listen.
Will the job market get worse?
There are five key factors thatI'm looking at that are going
to tell you yay or nay, and Ireally think most people need to
look at this, because we hadthe jobs report come out last
week the jolt report as well.
There are some interestingthings happening in the job
market and it's really at acrossroad.
(12:31):
We have steady job growth, butthen we have challenges like
underemployment and a lot ofeconomic uncertainties.
Do you feel this in the news,Mel?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yes, the Atlantic came out with that frozen job
market article, right, yes, andtalked about the trifecta that's
happening where less jobopenings, people aren't leaving
and organizations are terrifiedof overhiring right now, that's
right.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
There are a few others I need people to look at,
because here's the deal Stayinginformed, staying adaptable, is
gonna be crucial for employeesnavigating this really evolving
landscape, sometimes evolvingwithin the day, and so keeping
your eye on these five things isreally going to give you a
sense of how stable is this ornot.
(13:16):
Number one is looking at thingslike what is going on with the
federal workforce reductions.
Okay, we've heard DOGE go inand get rid of 50% of the
Department of Education, usaid,et cetera.
Right, that'll continue.
By the way, the federalgovernment is the largest
employer in the United States.
Yeah, the unemployment rate inMarch is going to go through the
(13:41):
roof because of this.
So this is going to be a reallybig thing because the Trump
administration has implementedsignificant layoffs across
various federal agenciesDepartment of Health and Human
Services, education, usaid.
These cuts have raised a lot ofconcerns about the impact on
public services and the economy.
(14:02):
They are the largest because wedon't know what's going to
happen to some of these services.
That is one thing I would watchin terms of what happens
because of that impact.
That's number one.
Number two is trade policy.
We've seen tariffs get put onand, in the same day, get taken
off.
We've seen the tariffs get puton and in the same day.
(14:24):
The definition of uncertaintywhat do corporations hate more
than anything?
It is uncertainty, because whencorporations are uncertain,
just like you might be, ifyou're uncertain if you're going
to lose your job, if you'reuncertain if you're going to
have to take a pay cut, what areyou going to do?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah, you're looking at your budget and where you're
going to cut.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You're not going to hire.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
They're not hiring, it's going to be a hiring freeze
.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
It's going to be a hiring freeze, it's going to be
an efficiency freeze, it's goingto be a lack of investment, and
so that has a big deal with thejob market.
Once we have some stabilitywith what's happening with
tariffs, even if they stay put,that's good for the job market.
If it keeps being all over thefucking place, that's bad for
(15:15):
the job market because of theuncertainty.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, this is going to be a roller coaster for a
while, and even all of thefederal government's being sued
and having to reinstate thosejobs too.
So there's it's going to feellike what am I on for quite a
while.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, it's so clumsy, but it's a ride.
It's a ride.
The other thing because of thateconomic uncertainty, you have
layoffs in major corporations.
Sometimes this is for justblock and tackle efficiency that
they were going to do anyway.
I'm looking at you Meta, I'mlooking at you Starbucks, I'm
looking at you Microsoft.
That's continued to happen in2025.
(15:52):
If you start to see more andmore layoffs because of the
economic uncertainty, that'sgoing to tell you the job market
obviously is going to get worse.
But again, if we see it tickingup, no bueno.
By the way, when Trump wasfirst announced, most
forecasters were thinking thatthe job market was going to pick
up very steadily around thistime.
(16:13):
It should have been waystronger than it is, because we
thought it would be more certain, because we thought the Trump
administration would be verybusiness friendly.
But because of all thisuncertainty, if you continue to
see massive layoffs happening,again, no bueno.
The other thing to look at thiscame out in the JOLTS report
the increase in part-timeworkers seeking full-time
(16:36):
positions.
So there's a growing trend ofpart-time workers seeking
full-time employment.
Recent reports indicate thatmore part-time workers are
expressing a desire forfull-time, but they can't find
it.
That increased by 10% over thelast year.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
My hypothesis there is there are a lot of people who
were already laid off, who tookpart-time positions because
they already couldn't findfull-time positions, and now
we're seeing an increase inthose same people who were
formerly full-time, then tookpart-time and now they want to
go back to full-time.
So that number is going to keepincreasing because so many
people have no choice but totake multiple part-time jobs
(17:12):
just to get some semblance offinancial wholeness, and they're
likely not getting that.
They don't get the benefits, sothey likely lost benefits and
now they're trying to claw itback to it, yeah, and if they
cut Medicaid, this is going tobe fascinating.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Here's my last one.
Again, we talked about jobopenings slowing down.
We talked about the tariffpolicy.
We talked about workforcereductions, part-time workers.
The last one that's interestingand a little bit of a nuance
point, but I think it'ssomething I'm always really
curious about, is the rise incredit card defaults.
Financial stress amongconsumers is evident and it's
increasing.
In the number of Americansdefaulting on credit card debt,
it actually just rose again.
(17:48):
They've found a rise indefaults reflecting broader
economic challenges andpotential implications for
consumer spending.
You're starting to also seethings like Walmart not
reporting as good of earnings asthey thought.
Obviously, target not reportingas good of earnings as they
thought.
Some of that might be becauseof the boycotts.
They're saying it's becausepeople are spending less on
(18:09):
discretionary items.
But when Walmart, which is thelow-cost provider, is saying,
hey, we're not going to meetwhat we thought we were going to
meet because people aren'tspending as much, when the rise
in credit card defaults ishappening as well, that means
people are holding onto theircash.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
They're holding onto their cash and they're likely
having to use credit cards justto pay for essentials.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So these are the things that I'm looking at.
If these get better, great, Ihave a prediction on what's
going to happen with the jobmarket.
What's yours?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Oh, I think it's going to work way worse before
it gets better.
I don't.
I think it'll be maybe aroundJune before we start to see
maybe some positivity coming outof the job market.
But what just occurred in thelast three months is going to
take three months to correct orlevel out.
I don't think we'll start tosee anything until summer.
(19:00):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, I'm absolutely in the same place.
I think it's going to beSeptember if we're doing prices,
right pricing, okay, miss.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Dollar.
Okay, miss Dollar, that's a 501.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
You want a car.
All of this takes way longer tocorrect.
It typically takes way longerto correct than it is to get.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I'm trying to be optimistic.
It's going to be a minute.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I it's going to be a minute.
It's going to be a minute.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I think it's going to be a minute.
I think it's going to be tough,but I think this is where
everyone keeps talking about theimportance of community and
finding community and peoplethat you can lean on, and it
absolutely is not a reflectionof people's value in the
marketplace.
I think that's the most ifyou're someone who's been
impacted.
This is not a reflection ofyour value, your skills, your
capabilities, your self-worth.
(19:50):
You're worthy just because youexist as a human being.
Right and work is justsomething that helps pay the
bills and hopefully you get goodthings out of it too, Like you
get to grow and learn and buildrelationships.
But outside of that, if this issomething that you've been
impacted by, it's now time tolean into communities, for
support is something that you'vebeen impacted by.
(20:12):
It's now time to lean intocommunities for support.
This was just a littlesurprising to me.
It was a fun little articletalking about two and five
American employees are open tovirtual reality workspaces.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What do you think about this?
Not for you, you know.
Listen, with the headsets.
Here's the thing.
I get it.
I get it.
First of all, I get reallysweaty in those headsets.
I don't.
I don't like the schmutz withany kind of ar vr.
Here's my deal.
To me, it's a hardware gameuntil these things become light
and easy on your face.
Ie like even lighter and easierthan the meta ray-ban glasses.
(20:43):
it's literally like a lighterand easier than the meta Ray-Ban
glasses.
It's literally like a lens andit feels like a heads up display
minority report kind of style.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Hardware is way too clunky forme, but I get it and I get why
people would say it.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, I'm with you a few years.
I went to South by Southwest afew years ago and they had an
amazing like tech showcase, asof course they did.
I did a demonstration of howyou can attend a global meeting
in the room and it was VR andyou sat in the space and it felt
like you were physically at atable with your colleagues in
the room because you could seethem and see their face and
(21:20):
interact.
I thought that was reallyinteresting, but the headset
itself, like I, was sodistracted by the weight of that
on my face and you know what myfear is having to wear that for
eight hours a day that was therequirement.
Yes, act.
The ring around your eyes yeah,just a rash.
No, you know how everyone talksabout that dent that they have
(21:43):
on their pinky finger fromholding their phone the wrong
way.
Imagine you just start gettinga dent on your face.
We're really going to lookstrange in a couple hundred
years.
Yeah, I'm with you on this.
I love tech, but I'm very much.
What do people need to do andwhat's the best experience to
support them?
And tech should be the lastthing.
(22:04):
It's not the solution toeverything, but just figuring
out is this the right solution?
I think that's it.
It's fun to play with.
So a recent YouGov surveyrevealed 40% of American office
workers are open to working fromhome using a VR headset, while
37% still prefer traditionalin-person office interactions.
Makes sense.
Among professionals age 18 to29, 57% prefer working from home
(22:29):
using a VR headset.
Look, that group in particularwas impacted by COVID in a very
different way.
They're growing up in a verydifferent environment, so I get
it.
I can see it.
Compared to 35% of folks whofavor traditional office
settings, only 31% of those age45 to 64 support virtual
workspaces and nearly half 48%preferring in-person
(22:52):
interactions.
For workers age 65 and older,only 18% favor a VR office and
64% the traditional environment.
So the data is indicating thereis significant openness to this
among younger professionals,suggesting that it's something
workplaces should explore, but Ithink we're still early days, I
don't know.
I'm curious to hear fromlisteners and see what they
(23:14):
think about this.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, me too, me too, yeah, I'm for it.
I'm for it if it can beimmersive and if it's solving
the problem we really need to besolving.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Correct.
We talked with TwennaBlondstrom about tech debt,
human debt in the workplace.
These are the techno stress.
We talked about that topic.
I can't imagine the changemanagement for something like
this right now, when everyone'scomplaining just about tech
overload with things like Zoomand how that's draining their
soul.
We'll see.
We'll see what happens.
We'll see what happens, gottabuy that real estate and
(23:46):
metaverse.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Is that even for sale anymore?
Did we just?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
is that for sale anymore?
Whatever?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
happened to that whatever?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
happened metaverse.
Meanwhile, they're like we'restill thriving.
Where are you?
Speaker 1 (24:01):
all right.
Last one, last one.
Okay, why are so many ceosgetting the boot?
Last week, a report out fromChallenger Gray and Christmas
let us know that 2024 wasn'tjust a rough year for CEOs.
It was actually the roughestNearly 2000 corner offices
emptied out, and 2025 is alreadybreaking records because we
(24:22):
have the January report in.
Here's the deal the job of aCEO is becoming way less stable
and high pressure Boards areacting faster to replace leaders
, particularly inconsumer-facing industries.
Okay, just like the job market.
Factors like increased investorscrutiny, rapid market shifts,
higher performance expectationsor shortening CEO lifespans and
(24:43):
the idea of this long-term,visionary CEO is honestly just
becoming super rare and beingreplaced by shorter, higher
impact life cycles.
It's fascinating.
Some stats for you coming outof.
It's a combination of blanketstats and a challenger grand
Christmas report.
In 2024, we saw a ton of CEOdepartures Nike's John Donahoe,
(25:03):
the Starbucks CEO.
In 2025, we're seeing it.
Nissan you texted me last week,right?
Yeah, no slowdown.
January saw a record 222 CEOsout.
That's up 73% from just lastyear.
Wow, which is significant.
And the hardest hit industriesretail, tech, finance.
(25:25):
What's the trend here?
So CEO tenure has declined overthe past decade.
The median tenure among S&P 500, ceos dropped 20% from six
years to 4.8 years.
Oh, wow, yes, and CEO turnoveris happening faster than before
again, with leaders staying 34%less time since the peak in 2017
(25:47):
.
So it's shifting.
Now I will say 2017, for somerando reason, ceos just stayed
put.
But that trend ever since thenis bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye,
bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Our CEOs just give me the golden parachute, I'm out.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
There's a couple of things happening here Per the
report.
What's driving the exodus isboards just have a shorter fuse.
They're expecting way higherperformance for what they're
getting, and when they're notgetting it, they're making that
action to get rid of the CEOmuch more quickly than they used
to.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
You and I've talked about this.
You and I've talked aboutshareholder power here.
Right, and how shareholders,like any stakeholders, need
expectations managed and is thatreally happening?
And how much of shareholderpressure and we've seen it
recently with some of the DEIdecisions right, but when is
(26:39):
shareholder pressure really goodand when is it actually more
disruptive and harmful to abusiness?
So where I'm going with this,we interviewed Ashley Goodall
about the problem with changeand when you have these CEO
cycles shift so frequently andso fast, all that does is create
more of that what Ashley callsthe life in the blender for your
(27:01):
organization, which stiflesinnovation, it stifles business,
it stifles growth.
So it's just constant churn andI don't know.
I'm curious about shareholderpower here, and when do you say
no to shareholders as a board tohave more stability as a
business?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I think that's going to be a very important question
to ask, especially now.
Think about all the economicuncertainty that was happening
in 2024.
And think about all theeconomic uncertainty that was
happening in 2024.
Right, and think about all theeconomic uncertainty that's just
happened in the last few months.
Okay, it is exponentially morein 2025 than it was in 2024.
And, to your very point, theexpectation of shareholder
(27:40):
return, quarter after quarter,remains, and so I think this
situation is going to get quitea bit worse, because boards
still are acting like there'ssome sort of unicorn in every
CEO and that somebody is goingto be able to come in and turn
this shit around on a dime andto your very good point.
It just doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, change takes time.
It takes a year, maybe more,just to understand the inside
and out of an organization.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So a new CEO coming in trying to understand the lay
of the land even if they'resomeone that's been there for a
long time, I don't know just tounderstand takes a year what
you're going to see and you'realready starting to see it when
you look at what's happening atStarbucks, right, with the CEO
coming in and saying we'relaying folks off, we need to do
one, two and three right away.
He has not been in tenure formore than six months.
(28:30):
He's making big moves rightaway.
You're seeing it at Gap, too,with the idea of bringing back
the 90s brand and a lot ofrepositioning the brand as a
place to be in the culturalconversation.
Right, they're making big movesvery quickly.
What that does sometimes to theemployee experience in terms of
being in the blender is it goes.
(28:52):
So if this is a Vitamix in 2024, if we were on five, now we're
on eight, because the marketloves the big moves, because in
the big moves is the hope ofchange and is the hope of
returns until it's not there.
But if you're looking at thingsquarter by quarter, you're like,
yeah, this is going to be great, so I think we're in for a
(29:13):
continued blender.
It's interesting to look at,though, and I think there is a
positive here, right, okay, oneof the things that I thought was
really interesting is whenyou're looking at who these CEOs
are getting replaced by.
On one hand, it's not greatbecause men are more and more
taking over the CEO roles.
The CEO gender gap isn'tclosing, it's widening.
When women CEOs leave, 55 arereplaced by men.
(29:36):
When men leave, only 18% arereplaced by women.
So, again, the smallrepresentation of women is
dwindling.
There's that On the positive,though.
There's a lot of internalsuccession happening.
77% of the time, theseappointments are by someone
internally, and I think that'soh, that's great.
Yeah, I agree.
(29:56):
Internal succession they knowthe culture.
They're probably working on anagenda that's been in place.
Again, for employees, sometimesit is much less of a blender,
and it also shows that there'sgrowth and development and your
talent management team and thosecompanies is working because
you are ready to go successor.
So kudos to those folks.
Yes, for employees, you mightbe a little bit in the blender.
(30:18):
Yes, you might have someinstability, but the other thing
I will let you know is thatthere are always opportunities.
Never let a crisis go to waste.
There are opportunities formovers and shakers.
With change comes opportunities, and the employee that can
adapt quickly and findthemselves in position of
influence are the ones that aregoing to win.
So look for those opportunities.
They will be there.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
This episode was produced, edited and all things
by us myself, mel Plett andFrancesca Rineri.
Our music is by Pink Zebra andif you loved this conversation
and you want to contribute yourthoughts with us, please do.
You can visit us atyourworkfriendscom, but you can
(31:03):
also join us over on LinkedIn.
We have a LinkedIn communitypage and we have the TikToks and
Instagram.
So please join us in thesocials and if you like this and
you've benefited from thisepisode and you think someone
else can benefit from thisepisode, please rate and
subscribe.
We'd really appreciate it.
That helps keep us going.
(31:23):
Take care, friends.
Bye friends.
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