New Week, New Headlines: Burnout turns deadly at Microsoft, the U.S. job market flatlines, “job huggers” cling to stability, and Salesforce cuts while Google opens 20,000 apprenticeships. What it all means for how you work, earn, and lead.
This week we’re covering four stories shaping how you work, earn, and lead:
- Dying at Work. A Microsoft employee died on campus at 35. What it reveals about the way we normalize overwork, and the guardrails leaders should be setting now.
- The job market flatlines. August added only 22,000 jobs. Why Wall Street cheered, what it means if you’re working or searching, and how to protect yourself in a cooling market.
- From hopping to hugging. Quitting is at its lowest since 2018. Why employees are clinging to stability, why leaders shouldn’t confuse it with loyalty, and what to do instead.
- AI cuts vs. access wins. Salesforce shed 4,000 jobs while Google announced 20,000 paid apprenticeships with no degree required. What that says about the real future of work.
👉 If you want to stay ahead of the forces reshaping work—from burnout to layoffs to new pathways in—you’ll want this week’s headlines in your feed.
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host or the management.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm done with leaders saying AI won't get rid of jobs
, it will change jobs, and thenvery clearly doing the exact
opposite of that.
The exact opposite of that.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
We are your work friends, where we break down the
now and next of work, so youstay ahead.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm Mel Plett and I am Francesca Ranieri.
Can I tell you the funnieststory on the face of the planet
First day of school, elementaryschool.
Yeah, the news is going to bethere.
It's an old school and on theside of the school there's this
large dumpster.
Apparently somebody thought itwould be funny, or somebody set
fire to the dumpster outside ofthe school there was a literal
(00:51):
dumpster fire.
That happened like 15 minutesbefore the news crews got there.
It looked like that meme whichis, by the way, my favorite meme
on the face of the planet thedumpster fire going down the
river.
This thing was blue, itliterally looked like a dumpster
fire and I was just like isthis like the omen, or the
funniest thing on the planet?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
We definitely have to repurpose that photo.
What a great way to start afirst day of school.
Yeah, we've been busy over hereat your work.
Friends Just closed out Q3.
And folks, if you missed it, wehad this mega lineup of guest
experts in Q3.
We met with Dr Melissa Clark.
(01:33):
She just wrote a book calledNever Not Working.
It addresses our societalworkaholism problem how to
identify if you're a workaholic.
She does give you systems forhow to recover Such a good
episode.
We also met with Karthik Ramana, who is at Oxford University.
He wrote a book about leadingthrough the age of outrage.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
He is giving excellent tips on leading
through polarizing times, as weare all of us about that but how
organizations can do that, andwe met with JP Elliott, who is
(02:07):
the host of the Future of HRpodcast.
He also runs a thing calledNext Gen HR Accelerator which
helps folks in HR develop theircapabilities to lead the future
of HR.
We also did a pod swap with himso you can hear us on the
Future of HR talking aboutreciprocal work, how to really
improve the boss employeerelationship.
Fun fact friends, it is arelationship, it is mutual, and
(02:27):
when you get it right andhealthy you can improve your
performance by almost 61%.
So it's worth looking into.
Get that healthy, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
All fun conversations .
Speaker 1 (02:38):
And if you just joined us, mel and I are two
people strategists.
We do people strategy for aliving and our whole philosophy
is to make sure strategy's superclear, it's really durable, and
we're always trying to bet onhumanity.
You'll hear that come throughin the way that we talk about
work, the way we think aboutwork, because we know that's how
work works.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
All right, let's get into it.
We're back with the new week,new headlines.
My main story is about theMicrosoft employee that died at
work this week.
My FIA is Google just announced20,000 apprenticeship programs
and my WTF is Salesforce,cutting 4,000 support roles.
Right after Mark Benioff saidAI is not going to be about big
(03:20):
mass layoffs.
That's a lie.
No, he lied.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
The data would show differently.
All right, I'm also talkingabout two big headlines the US
labor market stall, because thejobs report just came out for
August and it's abysmal.
And from Korn Ferry, that'stalking about what to do with
all the job huggers, man theseterms.
Yeah, I know We'll get into it.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Palo Alto Daily Post reported that a Microsoft
employee in their Mountain ViewCalifornia office died while at
work.
Prateek Pandley, who was 35,scanned his badge in at 7.50 pm
and was found face down at 2 amon campus August 20th, and this
(04:12):
is not the first story We'vetalked about somebody dying at
work.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
What was it Almost a year ago?
Yeah, Bank of America right.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, panley had told his roommates and colleagues
that he was under a lot ofstress.
He was juggling multipleprojects at the same time.
He had no known health issuesand his family talks about how
he was super jubilant,hardworking and successful.
His roommates talk about how heloved to play soccer and ping
pong and cricket and overall hewas a super positive person.
(04:42):
I feel like we're going to hearmore and more of this because,
like everything, the pendulumhas absolutely swung to people
feeling like they have to holdonto their jobs.
I know we will talk about thatin a little bit, but it's also
swung back to do your frickingjob, get it done or you can be
replaced.
(05:02):
And that's very much thesentiment that we're hearing
weekly.
And it shines the light on abigger piece that we are
normalizing burnout, especiallyin tech, and treating people
like they have infinitebandwidth, and it creates a
massive, in my mind, moral riskand a business risk because when
people leave or when people die, your reputation of your brand
(05:25):
will suffer.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, it's already a trend.
Yeah, think about it that way.
This should not be the trend.
And that's just overworking ingeneral, nevermind the alleged
contribution to deathspotentially.
I think leaders have aresponsibility to care for their
people.
Again, betting on humanity.
Our whole mantra is the care.
Your greatest responsibility isthe care for their people.
Again, betting on humanity, ourwhole mantra is the care your
greatest responsibility is thecare for your employees.
(05:48):
In all of these workplaces,there needs to be care.
About a year ago, there was thatAmerican Heart Association
report that came out about.
There were two findings Oneworking more than 50 hours a
week was actually contributingto stress on your heart and
increased risk of strokes, heartattack, et cetera.
(06:11):
The other piece was they foundworking more than 50 hours a
week actually was a huge declinein productivity efficiency.
So people aren't even doingtheir best work.
When you overwork them, they'reactually compromising a lot of
things, which is in itself, ahuge business risk.
These are people, these are notmachines, these are not robots,
(06:32):
and everyone deserves to haveboundaries with their personal
life.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Right now what I'd love to see more organizations
do, and these are very smalltactics, but I'm looking for
them because the name of thegame for the best quality work,
the best symbiotic relationshipof people in work, is not about
chasing hours.
It's more around setting thingslike durability guardrails,
workload on its mandatory resetweeks, making things like energy
(06:59):
metrics which, by the way, youcan track all of this stuff just
as important as uptime or bugcounts.
There's no reason why anorganization can't help their
employees set durabilityguardrails.
I also think there's a culturaldurability guardrail, which is
we're not architecting the workso that you have to work more
(07:21):
than 50 hours a week on average.
Yes, there will always be ebbsand flows, I get that but we're
not doing any of this right nowand we're just expecting
everybody to work 70, 80, 100hours a week.
It is unsustainable and it isliterally killing people.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
My fear is we're leaning into.
This is the norm, and thethreat of your livelihood is
held over people's heads, sothey have no choice or they
don't feel safe creatingboundaries that, quite frankly,
they should feel reallyconfident building.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I believe, is what exactly is going on, not in all
organizations.
We see some organizations wherethey are very crisp about
durability, around boundaries,around resetting, but when you
get into a lot of theseorganizations, they're not or
they're only happening inpockets, and it's just for the
better that we make this muchmore standard.
Listen, if you're an employee,please don't assume that your
(08:18):
company is going to beprotecting you.
They're just not.
This isn't Mel and Francescaganging up on employers.
It's not that.
It's just that your health isyour responsibility and making
sure that you're tracking yourown hours, you're flagging your
unhealthy workloads, you'redocumenting your concerns.
You're bringing that to yourmanager, if you can do that.
(08:41):
The climate is shifting andvoices are harder to dismiss and
regulators may or may not bethere, at least for the next few
years, because we're justseeing quite a bit of
deregulation in any kind ofemployee advocacy space.
But the key headline here isprotect yourself and if your
company culture isn't protectingyou.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
If you're a team leader, create that environment.
Check in with your people.
How are they doing?
How are they holding up Likewhere can you reduce those
pockets of potential burnout?
Yes, I love that.
My condolences to his lovedones.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I know it just.
You look at his picture, it'sjust.
It looks like just a wonderfulhuman.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
The US labor market is stalling.
The New York Times came outwith the latest report, jobs are
stalling out.
August has a very weak jobsreport.
It was what I'd like to say Aletdown.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
A letdown for who?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
my dear, Everybody All right.
The economy only added 22,000jobs.
Friends, that is like so bad Ithink I was nice with using the
term letdown which was way below, way below what experts
expected, and unemployment hasinched up to 4.3%.
To make it worse, june wasrevised down to show the biggest
(10:08):
net job loss since 2020.
So during that great recessiontime, covid times and long-term
unemployment is creeping higherand higher for folks.
We've talked about thismultiple times.
And then there was this littleodd twist in the story the stock
market actually went up on thisnews because weaker jobs almost
(10:29):
guarantee the Fed's going tocut interest rates soon.
So, while Wall Street wascheering for workers, it's a
clear sign that opportunitiesare slowing and it might be
tougher to make the jump rightnow.
So I had two questions for you.
Only 22,000 jobs Is thisstalling, or are we barely
breathing at this point?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Listen to answer your question.
I think we're barely breathing.
These job reports always getrevised.
For the last several months,the amount of job opening
reports gets revised downbecause more comprehensive data
comes in.
So I think we're barelybreathing.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I agree.
I also find it very disturbing.
What does it say about us whenthe stock market's cheering on
bad job news?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
They're cheering because they want the inflation
rate to come down, which I get,I totally agree.
But it's gross because theother thing I'm really
struggling with lately theschisms between the haves and
the have-nots, and the stockmarket typically benefits the
haves, not people that are inthe lower 3% on down.
(11:37):
It feels very gross.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, it does.
The combination of that andthat article that came out last
month about the CEOs cheeringlayoff numbers.
It's just what is happening.
We've absolutely lost the plot,I think.
So I think I'm hopeful thatwe'll start to see a shift.
With that said, friend to friendfolks, this cooling job market
(12:01):
matters for everybody.
So if you're working, it'scompletely understandable that
you want to hold on to stability.
That said, don't get stagnant.
Keep building your skills,things that make you marketable,
no matter what happens.
Focus on your own growth anddevelopment.
Take care of you.
We just talked about theboundaries.
(12:22):
If you're job hunting, expectthings to move slower and be
tougher.
Patience is going to be a bigpart of the success you could
burn out while job hunting too.
I coach a lot of people goingthrough layoffs.
You can burn out there too.
So take care of yourself.
We have that layoff playbookthat we launched a couple of
years ago.
It's still very relevant.
(12:43):
It's going to take a longertime.
If you're a leader, invest inyour people right now.
Development, careerconversations, trust building
that's going to go a long way ina shaky market like this, and
then, honestly, just plan ahead.
The labor market always cycles.
Right now, the winds areshifting in a weird way, but it
(13:04):
always cycles.
Right now, the winds areshifting in a weird way, but it
always cycles.
The Corn Fury came out with anarticle what to Do with All the
Job Huggers, and you rememberthe days when everyone was job
hopping just a few years ago.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
So are we moving from hopping to hugging?
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, got it.
We've gone deep into that wavehas officially crashed.
People are now job huggingthat's a cutesy way of saying
staying put even when recruiterscome calling actually because
it's risky to take a new job youdon't know if it's going to
work out and blah, blah, blah.
And it's too risky for folks.
Quitting rates are at theirlowest since 2018 because the
(13:39):
job market is shaky.
The search process has beenexhausting for folks and AI has
everyone nervous about making achange.
We hear that all the time.
We talk to people every dayabout this stuff, Like they
don't even know where theirorg's going, what's happening,
Everyone's figuring it out right.
So this is the space we're in.
It's really gray anduncomfortable for a lot of
people.
For leaders, this sounds greatbecause they think they have
(14:02):
loyal workers, but no, that's aruse.
If everyone stays too longwithout growth, companies are
going to stall out becausethey're not growing.
The challenge now is figuringout who to invest in, how to
give them real developmentopportunities and how to make
sure they don't quietlydisengage behind the scenes,
because the market again isgoing to shift and they will
(14:22):
likely take off.
Are you getting a littleannoyed by all these little
cutesy names for trends thatseem to be masking the deeper
rooted work problem.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yes, I was just having this thought around quiet
cracking or job hugging orburnout, and the thing that
bothers me about them is thatthey put all of the onus on the
employee, not the system 100%.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
No people aren't job hugging.
They are afraid that they won'tbe able to feed their family.
If they had options and theyknew it was secure options, they
would take the risk.
But adults take calculatedrisks.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, whenever we tell stories about relationships
, calculated risks, whenever wetell stories about relationships
, it's typically there's the twosides of the story, but somehow
employers always end up like Idon't know, not talking about me
, but the employee is the onethat's always making this
decision and struggling with it,and it's either something that
they're doing to be selfish,like job hopping, or they can't
(15:24):
handle it 100%, 100%.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
both sides contribute to the health of that
relationship.
So you can't just be like notme, I'm perfect.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
No, you can't.
It's never the case, but welove to come up with these terms
.
Can we stop Anyway?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
that's what's going on.
So, friends, friend to friend,here's what I'm telling you to
look out for If you're anemployee.
Really, this is your chance toask yourself am I hugging this
job because I love it or becauseI'm scared to leave it?
And it's okay If you're scared.
That is understandable, justgiven the climate that we're in.
(16:00):
Deep reflection right now wouldbe good.
What are your values,priorities, what's shifted for
you?
What do you want?
Going forward, and startworking towards that, regardless
of what you're doing in theday-to-day.
If you're a leader, don'tconfuse hugging with engagement.
This is not a confirmation thatpeople love to work for your
(16:21):
company or even for you.
It just means they might bethere because they have no
choice.
Employees want to feelchallenged, they want to feel
valued.
They want to feel valued, theywant to feel like they matter.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Now is the time to double down on showing them that
they do.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
You want to do F-Yeah and WTF?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I just feel like we got to end on a high note.
Hr Digest reported thatSalesforce cut 4,000 support
roles this week about 50% oftheir support staff saying that
AI agents can now do the work.
And this is just weeks afterMark Benioff, who is the CEO of
Salesforce, promised AI wouldcreate jobs.
Benioff appears positivelyexcited about the benefits of
this technology.
He quote says it's been eightof the most exciting months of
(17:09):
my career.
I was able to rebalance myheadcount on my support.
I've reduced it from 9,000heads to about 5,000 heads
because I need less heads.
Here's my WTF.
I'm done with leaders saying AIwon't get rid of jobs.
It will change jobs and thenvery clearly Doing the exact
opposite of that jobs and thenvery clearly doing the exact
(17:29):
opposite of that the exactopposite of that.
Listen, ai will replace jobs.
Ai is replacing jobs.
Here are 4,000 jobs that it isreplacing.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, 100%.
Be transparent and be honest.
Stop treating people likethey're stupid.
They know this change is coming.
Be honest about the options.
Or are you even thinkingthrough them, Based on the
reports that are coming outabout how the ROI isn't what was
expected or the lawsuitshappening?
(18:02):
So it's just interesting to me.
There are choices.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
There are choices.
Let me tell you what I think ishappening right.
There are choices.
Let me tell you what I think ishappening right.
Efficiency and gettingemployees off your balance sheet
is just seductive as hell toanybody that is accountable for
a P&L.
A ton of cost off your booksright away.
And the minute you say AI, yourshareholders are like, yay,
(18:26):
efficiency, because they'llyield more return on it.
It is just the way things workand, to your very good point,
now that we've had some time tofigure out, is this really
reaping the benefits or not?
A report came out last week theSobering Truth 95% of all AI
pilots fail to deliver on theirpromises.
In this specific example withSalesforce, mark Benioff didn't
(18:49):
provide a clear picture of whatSalesforce's AI-based workforce
reduction plans were, but he wasable to outline the benefits of
this significant drop to itsheadcount.
Yeah, so we're all making thisshit up as we go along.
You know what?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
it reminds me of Did you ever read the story of
Elizabeth Holmes?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Oh, the Theranos.
Right yeah, the Theranos.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
And the book Bad Blood, where it's like
everyone's selling air, andthat's what it reminds me of
what is air and what is solidground?
And get really clear on that.
Are there conversations thatare just happening where they
know the solid ground and nobodyelse does, or is it just air
and they're counting on the airto turn into solid ground?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
So WTF.
I would love for CEOs andorganizations to be a lot more
transparent If they're going toreplace, don't say it won't and
for organizations to reallythink thoughtfully,
systematically, about AI and ifyou are actually just ripping
something out and puttingsomething back in and expecting,
with no human interaction, ifit's going to work or not,
because the system won't hold.
(19:52):
Here's my F.
Yeah, and I do have a commentabout it, but it is an F.
Yeah.
Google announced that it willbring 20,000 people into tech
careers over the next decadethrough apprenticeships, no
degree required.
I'm a huge fan of this becausethey are partnering with the US
Department of Labor to bringthese to bear.
(20:13):
Number one, number two theseare paid.
They are 18 months.
They are transferring the bestand brightest thinking and
processes and frameworks fromGoogle to folks that might not
have had it before.
Big fan of this marriage ofgovernment and tech companies
coming together to upskillpeople that might not have had
(20:35):
access to that.
And 20,000 people is no numberto schlep at.
It's fantastic.
Love it.
Yeah, it feels like this rarestory around access.
Love it, more of this.
Yes.
Where I really wish they wouldhave just pushed this a little
(20:55):
bit harder is typically withapprenticeships, what we see is
there is a job waiting for youat the end of it.
There is no job waiting forsomebody at the end of this.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And that's where I would love to have
apprenticeships.
If we're going to do it, let'sgo all the way.
We see this all the way through.
Yes, go all the way through, goall the way through.
Love, the start of this Lovethat it's paid, love that it's
an access play yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
This episode was produced, edited and all things
by us myself, mel Plett andFrancesca Rennery.
Our music is by Pink Zebra andif you like this, please rate
and subscribe.
We'd really appreciate it.
That helps keep us going.
Take care, friends.
Bye friends, bye friends, byefriends.
I'm done with leaders saying AI won't get rid of jobs
, it will change jobs, and thenvery clearly doing the exact
opposite of that.
The exact opposite of that.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
We are your work friends, where we break down the
now and next of work, so youstay ahead.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm Mel Plett and I am Francesca Ranieri.
Can I tell you the funnieststory on the face of the planet
First day of school, elementaryschool.
Yeah, the news is going to bethere.
It's an old school and on theside of the school there's this
large dumpster.
Apparently somebody thought itwould be funny, or somebody set
fire to the dumpster outside ofthe school there was a literal
(00:51):
dumpster fire.
That happened like 15 minutesbefore the news crews got there.
It looked like that meme whichis, by the way, my favorite meme
on the face of the planet thedumpster fire going down the
river.
This thing was blue, itliterally looked like a dumpster
fire and I was just like isthis like the omen, or the
funniest thing on the planet?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
We definitely have to repurpose that photo.
What a great way to start afirst day of school.
Yeah, we've been busy over hereat your work.
Friends Just closed out Q3.
And folks, if you missed it, wehad this mega lineup of guest
experts in Q3.
We met with Dr Melissa Clark.
(01:33):
She just wrote a book calledNever Not Working.
It addresses our societalworkaholism problem how to
identify if you're a workaholic.
She does give you systems forhow to recover Such a good
episode.
We also met with Karthik Ramana, who is at Oxford University.
He wrote a book about leadingthrough the age of outrage.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
He is giving excellent tips on leading
through polarizing times, as weare all of us about that but how
organizations can do that, andwe met with JP Elliott, who is
(02:07):
the host of the Future of HRpodcast.
He also runs a thing calledNext Gen HR Accelerator which
helps folks in HR develop theircapabilities to lead the future
of HR.
We also did a pod swap with himso you can hear us on the
Future of HR talking aboutreciprocal work, how to really
improve the boss employeerelationship.
Fun fact friends, it is arelationship, it is mutual, and
(02:27):
when you get it right andhealthy you can improve your
performance by almost 61%.
So it's worth looking into.
Get that healthy, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
All fun conversations .
Speaker 1 (02:38):
And if you just joined us, mel and I are two
people strategists.
We do people strategy for aliving and our whole philosophy
is to make sure strategy's superclear, it's really durable, and
we're always trying to bet onhumanity.
You'll hear that come throughin the way that we talk about
work, the way we think aboutwork, because we know that's how
work works.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
All right, let's get into it.
We're back with the new week,new headlines.
My main story is about theMicrosoft employee that died at
work this week.
My FIA is Google just announced20,000 apprenticeship programs
and my WTF is Salesforce,cutting 4,000 support roles.
Right after Mark Benioff saidAI is not going to be about big
(03:20):
mass layoffs.
That's a lie.
No, he lied.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
The data would show differently.
All right, I'm also talkingabout two big headlines the US
labor market stall, because thejobs report just came out for
August and it's abysmal.
And from Korn Ferry, that'stalking about what to do with
all the job huggers, man theseterms.
Yeah, I know We'll get into it.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Palo Alto Daily Post reported that a Microsoft
employee in their Mountain ViewCalifornia office died while at
work.
Prateek Pandley, who was 35,scanned his badge in at 7.50 pm
and was found face down at 2 amon campus August 20th, and this
(04:12):
is not the first story We'vetalked about somebody dying at
work.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
What was it Almost a year ago?
Yeah, Bank of America right.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, panley had told his roommates and colleagues
that he was under a lot ofstress.
He was juggling multipleprojects at the same time.
He had no known health issuesand his family talks about how
he was super jubilant,hardworking and successful.
His roommates talk about how heloved to play soccer and ping
pong and cricket and overall hewas a super positive person.
(04:42):
I feel like we're going to hearmore and more of this because,
like everything, the pendulumhas absolutely swung to people
feeling like they have to holdonto their jobs.
I know we will talk about thatin a little bit, but it's also
swung back to do your frickingjob, get it done or you can be
replaced.
(05:02):
And that's very much thesentiment that we're hearing
weekly.
And it shines the light on abigger piece that we are
normalizing burnout, especiallyin tech, and treating people
like they have infinitebandwidth, and it creates a
massive, in my mind, moral riskand a business risk because when
people leave or when people die, your reputation of your brand
(05:25):
will suffer.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, it's already a trend.
Yeah, think about it that way.
This should not be the trend.
And that's just overworking ingeneral, nevermind the alleged
contribution to deathspotentially.
I think leaders have aresponsibility to care for their
people.
Again, betting on humanity.
Our whole mantra is the care.
Your greatest responsibility isthe care for their people.
Again, betting on humanity, ourwhole mantra is the care your
greatest responsibility is thecare for your employees.
(05:48):
In all of these workplaces,there needs to be care.
About a year ago, there was thatAmerican Heart Association
report that came out about.
There were two findings Oneworking more than 50 hours a
week was actually contributingto stress on your heart and
increased risk of strokes, heartattack, et cetera.
(06:11):
The other piece was they foundworking more than 50 hours a
week actually was a huge declinein productivity efficiency.
So people aren't even doingtheir best work.
When you overwork them, they'reactually compromising a lot of
things, which is in itself, ahuge business risk.
These are people, these are notmachines, these are not robots,
(06:32):
and everyone deserves to haveboundaries with their personal
life.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Right now what I'd love to see more organizations
do, and these are very smalltactics, but I'm looking for
them because the name of thegame for the best quality work,
the best symbiotic relationshipof people in work, is not about
chasing hours.
It's more around setting thingslike durability guardrails,
workload on its mandatory resetweeks, making things like energy
(06:59):
metrics which, by the way, youcan track all of this stuff just
as important as uptime or bugcounts.
There's no reason why anorganization can't help their
employees set durabilityguardrails.
I also think there's a culturaldurability guardrail, which is
we're not architecting the workso that you have to work more
(07:21):
than 50 hours a week on average.
Yes, there will always be ebbsand flows, I get that but we're
not doing any of this right nowand we're just expecting
everybody to work 70, 80, 100hours a week.
It is unsustainable and it isliterally killing people.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
My fear is we're leaning into.
This is the norm, and thethreat of your livelihood is
held over people's heads, sothey have no choice or they
don't feel safe creatingboundaries that, quite frankly,
they should feel reallyconfident building.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I believe, is what exactly is going on, not in all
organizations.
We see some organizations wherethey are very crisp about
durability, around boundaries,around resetting, but when you
get into a lot of theseorganizations, they're not or
they're only happening inpockets, and it's just for the
better that we make this muchmore standard.
Listen, if you're an employee,please don't assume that your
(08:18):
company is going to beprotecting you.
They're just not.
This isn't Mel and Francescaganging up on employers.
It's not that.
It's just that your health isyour responsibility and making
sure that you're tracking yourown hours, you're flagging your
unhealthy workloads, you'redocumenting your concerns.
You're bringing that to yourmanager, if you can do that.
(08:41):
The climate is shifting andvoices are harder to dismiss and
regulators may or may not bethere, at least for the next few
years, because we're justseeing quite a bit of
deregulation in any kind ofemployee advocacy space.
But the key headline here isprotect yourself and if your
company culture isn't protectingyou.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
If you're a team leader, create that environment.
Check in with your people.
How are they doing?
How are they holding up Likewhere can you reduce those
pockets of potential burnout?
Yes, I love that.
My condolences to his lovedones.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I know it just.
You look at his picture, it'sjust.
It looks like just a wonderfulhuman.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
The US labor market is stalling.
The New York Times came outwith the latest report, jobs are
stalling out.
August has a very weak jobsreport.
It was what I'd like to say Aletdown.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
A letdown for who?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
my dear, Everybody All right.
The economy only added 22,000jobs.
Friends, that is like so bad Ithink I was nice with using the
term letdown which was way below, way below what experts
expected, and unemployment hasinched up to 4.3%.
To make it worse, june wasrevised down to show the biggest
(10:08):
net job loss since 2020.
So during that great recessiontime, covid times and long-term
unemployment is creeping higherand higher for folks.
We've talked about thismultiple times.
And then there was this littleodd twist in the story the stock
market actually went up on thisnews because weaker jobs almost
(10:29):
guarantee the Fed's going tocut interest rates soon.
So, while Wall Street wascheering for workers, it's a
clear sign that opportunitiesare slowing and it might be
tougher to make the jump rightnow.
So I had two questions for you.
Only 22,000 jobs Is thisstalling, or are we barely
breathing at this point?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Listen to answer your question.
I think we're barely breathing.
These job reports always getrevised.
For the last several months,the amount of job opening
reports gets revised downbecause more comprehensive data
comes in.
So I think we're barelybreathing.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I agree.
I also find it very disturbing.
What does it say about us whenthe stock market's cheering on
bad job news?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
They're cheering because they want the inflation
rate to come down, which I get,I totally agree.
But it's gross because theother thing I'm really
struggling with lately theschisms between the haves and
the have-nots, and the stockmarket typically benefits the
haves, not people that are inthe lower 3% on down.
(11:37):
It feels very gross.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, it does.
The combination of that andthat article that came out last
month about the CEOs cheeringlayoff numbers.
It's just what is happening.
We've absolutely lost the plot,I think.
So I think I'm hopeful thatwe'll start to see a shift.
With that said, friend to friendfolks, this cooling job market
(12:01):
matters for everybody.
So if you're working, it'scompletely understandable that
you want to hold on to stability.
That said, don't get stagnant.
Keep building your skills,things that make you marketable,
no matter what happens.
Focus on your own growth anddevelopment.
Take care of you.
We just talked about theboundaries.
(12:22):
If you're job hunting, expectthings to move slower and be
tougher.
Patience is going to be a bigpart of the success you could
burn out while job hunting too.
I coach a lot of people goingthrough layoffs.
You can burn out there too.
So take care of yourself.
We have that layoff playbookthat we launched a couple of
years ago.
It's still very relevant.
(12:43):
It's going to take a longertime.
If you're a leader, invest inyour people right now.
Development, careerconversations, trust building
that's going to go a long way ina shaky market like this, and
then, honestly, just plan ahead.
The labor market always cycles.
Right now, the winds areshifting in a weird way, but it
(13:04):
always cycles.
Right now, the winds areshifting in a weird way, but it
always cycles.
The Corn Fury came out with anarticle what to Do with All the
Job Huggers, and you rememberthe days when everyone was job
hopping just a few years ago.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
So are we moving from hopping to hugging?
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, got it.
We've gone deep into that wavehas officially crashed.
People are now job huggingthat's a cutesy way of saying
staying put even when recruiterscome calling actually because
it's risky to take a new job youdon't know if it's going to
work out and blah, blah, blah.
And it's too risky for folks.
Quitting rates are at theirlowest since 2018 because the
(13:39):
job market is shaky.
The search process has beenexhausting for folks and AI has
everyone nervous about making achange.
We hear that all the time.
We talk to people every dayabout this stuff, Like they
don't even know where theirorg's going, what's happening,
Everyone's figuring it out right.
So this is the space we're in.
It's really gray anduncomfortable for a lot of
people.
For leaders, this sounds greatbecause they think they have
(14:02):
loyal workers, but no, that's aruse.
If everyone stays too longwithout growth, companies are
going to stall out becausethey're not growing.
The challenge now is figuringout who to invest in, how to
give them real developmentopportunities and how to make
sure they don't quietlydisengage behind the scenes,
because the market again isgoing to shift and they will
(14:22):
likely take off.
Are you getting a littleannoyed by all these little
cutesy names for trends thatseem to be masking the deeper
rooted work problem.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yes, I was just having this thought around quiet
cracking or job hugging orburnout, and the thing that
bothers me about them is thatthey put all of the onus on the
employee, not the system 100%.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
No people aren't job hugging.
They are afraid that they won'tbe able to feed their family.
If they had options and theyknew it was secure options, they
would take the risk.
But adults take calculatedrisks.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, whenever we tell stories about relationships
, calculated risks, whenever wetell stories about relationships
, it's typically there's the twosides of the story, but somehow
employers always end up like Idon't know, not talking about me
, but the employee is the onethat's always making this
decision and struggling with it,and it's either something that
they're doing to be selfish,like job hopping, or they can't
(15:24):
handle it 100%, 100%.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
both sides contribute to the health of that
relationship.
So you can't just be like notme, I'm perfect.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
No, you can't.
It's never the case, but welove to come up with these terms
.
Can we stop Anyway?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
that's what's going on.
So, friends, friend to friend,here's what I'm telling you to
look out for If you're anemployee.
Really, this is your chance toask yourself am I hugging this
job because I love it or becauseI'm scared to leave it?
And it's okay If you're scared.
That is understandable, justgiven the climate that we're in.
(16:00):
Deep reflection right now wouldbe good.
What are your values,priorities, what's shifted for
you?
What do you want?
Going forward, and startworking towards that, regardless
of what you're doing in theday-to-day.
If you're a leader, don'tconfuse hugging with engagement.
This is not a confirmation thatpeople love to work for your
(16:21):
company or even for you.
It just means they might bethere because they have no
choice.
Employees want to feelchallenged, they want to feel
valued.
They want to feel valued, theywant to feel like they matter.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Now is the time to double down on showing them that
they do.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
You want to do F-Yeah and WTF?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I just feel like we got to end on a high note.
Hr Digest reported thatSalesforce cut 4,000 support
roles this week about 50% oftheir support staff saying that
AI agents can now do the work.
And this is just weeks afterMark Benioff, who is the CEO of
Salesforce, promised AI wouldcreate jobs.
Benioff appears positivelyexcited about the benefits of
this technology.
He quote says it's been eightof the most exciting months of
(17:09):
my career.
I was able to rebalance myheadcount on my support.
I've reduced it from 9,000heads to about 5,000 heads
because I need less heads.
Here's my WTF.
I'm done with leaders saying AIwon't get rid of jobs.
It will change jobs and thenvery clearly Doing the exact
opposite of that jobs and thenvery clearly doing the exact
(17:29):
opposite of that the exactopposite of that.
Listen, ai will replace jobs.
Ai is replacing jobs.
Here are 4,000 jobs that it isreplacing.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, 100%.
Be transparent and be honest.
Stop treating people likethey're stupid.
They know this change is coming.
Be honest about the options.
Or are you even thinkingthrough them, Based on the
reports that are coming outabout how the ROI isn't what was
expected or the lawsuitshappening?
(18:02):
So it's just interesting to me.
There are choices.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
There are choices.
Let me tell you what I think ishappening right.
There are choices.
Let me tell you what I think ishappening right.
Efficiency and gettingemployees off your balance sheet
is just seductive as hell toanybody that is accountable for
a P&L.
A ton of cost off your booksright away.
And the minute you say AI, yourshareholders are like, yay,
(18:26):
efficiency, because they'llyield more return on it.
It is just the way things workand, to your very good point,
now that we've had some time tofigure out, is this really
reaping the benefits or not?
A report came out last week theSobering Truth 95% of all AI
pilots fail to deliver on theirpromises.
In this specific example withSalesforce, mark Benioff didn't
(18:49):
provide a clear picture of whatSalesforce's AI-based workforce
reduction plans were, but he wasable to outline the benefits of
this significant drop to itsheadcount.
Yeah, so we're all making thisshit up as we go along.
You know what?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
it reminds me of Did you ever read the story of
Elizabeth Holmes?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Oh, the Theranos.
Right yeah, the Theranos.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
And the book Bad Blood, where it's like
everyone's selling air, andthat's what it reminds me of
what is air and what is solidground?
And get really clear on that.
Are there conversations thatare just happening where they
know the solid ground and nobodyelse does, or is it just air
and they're counting on the airto turn into solid ground?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
So WTF.
I would love for CEOs andorganizations to be a lot more
transparent If they're going toreplace, don't say it won't and
for organizations to reallythink thoughtfully,
systematically, about AI and ifyou are actually just ripping
something out and puttingsomething back in and expecting,
with no human interaction, ifit's going to work or not,
because the system won't hold.
(19:52):
Here's my F.
Yeah, and I do have a commentabout it, but it is an F.
Yeah.
Google announced that it willbring 20,000 people into tech
careers over the next decadethrough apprenticeships, no
degree required.
I'm a huge fan of this becausethey are partnering with the US
Department of Labor to bringthese to bear.
(20:13):
Number one, number two theseare paid.
They are 18 months.
They are transferring the bestand brightest thinking and
processes and frameworks fromGoogle to folks that might not
have had it before.
Big fan of this marriage ofgovernment and tech companies
coming together to upskillpeople that might not have had
(20:35):
access to that.
And 20,000 people is no numberto schlep at.
It's fantastic.
Love it.
Yeah, it feels like this rarestory around access.
Love it, more of this.
Yes.
Where I really wish they wouldhave just pushed this a little
(20:55):
bit harder is typically withapprenticeships, what we see is
there is a job waiting for youat the end of it.
There is no job waiting forsomebody at the end of this.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And that's where I would love to have
apprenticeships.
If we're going to do it, let'sgo all the way.
We see this all the way through.
Yes, go all the way through, goall the way through.
Love, the start of this Lovethat it's paid, love that it's
an access play yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
This episode was produced, edited and all things
by us myself, mel Plett andFrancesca Rennery.
Our music is by Pink Zebra andif you like this, please rate
and subscribe.
We'd really appreciate it.
That helps keep us going.
Take care, friends.
Bye friends, bye friends, byefriends.
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