May 7, 2024 • 30 mins
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Ever found yourself fumbling for the right words when a friend shares their sorrow, or wondered why your well-intentioned advice seems to push people away? As your companions through the emotional labyrinth of life, Kristine & Theresa unfold the complexities of empathy on this journey of understanding and connection. We delve into the essence of empathy, not just surface-level sympathy, through the lens of our own experiences.
Navigating the murky waters of emotional support, we reveal our tales of empathy misses and the lessons learned along the way. From the 'bolter' who shies away from painful recollections to the 'fixer' who rushes to problem-solve, we confront the instincts that can inadvertently silence the very people we aim to comfort.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome back to You're Always Fine a space to
show up for yourself and embracethe mess that lives underneath.
Because, let's be real, it'sexhausting always being fine.
So grab your headphones andallow yourself to listen, laugh
and even cry, because you arenot alone.
And we aren't always fine, andthat's okay.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Have you ever shared something that was either
personal or maybe it was astruggle, only to feel like the
other person didn't really getyou or get it.
Not that they were mean, butsomething just didn't really sit
right.
Well, join us today as weunpack the concept of empathy,
misses, how it feels on thereceiving end, and maybe even
(00:48):
bring to your awareness somethat you might be guilty of.
I'm your host, christine.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
And I'm Teresa, so let's freaking get into it.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I think both you and I, titi, know the power of
shared experience and theconnection that comes from that,
especially like the empathizingwith someone struggle.
I mean that's kind of how wemet.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yeah, definitely, and I will be one to say you know,
empathy is not, I would say, astrong suit of mine, but I have
learned why are you laughing?
It's been long researched thepositive impacts on decision
making, moral judgment, shortand long-term well-being and
your relationships when you areable to empathize with people.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Oh God, absolutely.
There's a lot to unpack here.
Let's start with what empathyis.
Now I know we tend to think ofempathy and sympathy and we get
that mixed up, but that's likevery surface level and guys, I
get it.
I am pretty sure I was a firstyear master, maybe second year
master student when I finallysorted out the difference
(01:51):
between empathy and sympathy.
So before I share where I thinkwe go wrong, do you want to
take a stab at the definitioninjuries or like what it is?
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Sure, For me now this might not have been my
definition a couple of years agobecause I needed some work in
that department.
It's all about self-realization, but for me now I would say
that empathy is really beingable to kind of understand what
someone else is going throughand see, I want to say empathize
(02:23):
with that, but you can't usethe word to define it.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
This is an English class, so if you would like to,
you can use the word.
No, I'm definitely not thegrammar teacher over here, yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
So you're you're able to see, in my opinion, where
people are coming from, You'reable to kind of feel what
they're feeling and you're ableto understand why they feel that
way.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
So that's a great basic definition, but where it
falls a little bit short and Ithink so many of us miss this
aspect, that empathy is theconnection of a feeling, not the
connection of the experience.
And what I mean by that is thatwe don't have to experience the
exact same thing to be able toshow compassion, to understand,
(03:04):
to empathize with someone.
We've had to have the sameemotion at some point in our
life or experience somethingthat caused that emotion at some
point in our life in order tohave that connection kind of
come through.
And I think, titi, we are greatexamples of what I'm trying to
say here.
Our experience was not the same.
We did not both have rarediseases.
(03:24):
I had the rare disease and youwere a caretaker and a mother of
a child with a rare disease.
The daily experience was verydifferent for both of us, but we
were able to show each otherthat true empathy, because I
didn't need to walk in yourexact shoes to know the
isolation, the pain that youwere experiencing.
It was the feeling that weshared.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, I think that's also a big part of why people
miss on empathy because theymight not have, you know,
whether it be a direct orindirect connection.
They might not have that toresonate with them.
Like you said, for me I wasable to be like okay, our
experiences with rare disease isdifferent, but I understand how
(04:06):
hard it is in my own way.
So I think that's really whereempathy misses calm, because if
you don't have some form ofshared experience, even if it's
different, it is going to behard for you to resonate with
someone else and to understandwhere they're coming from.
And that's why I think beingaware of that and also being
(04:27):
aware if you're not the greatestin the empathy department, I
think that's huge because it issomething you can work on, like
if you're aware that you're notthe most empathetic person or
okay, I may not resonate orunderstand what this person is
going through but like if youunderstand how to still be
empathetic without having thoseexperiences.
That's the key to it all, Ithink.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well, exactly Because , again, if I felt a certain
type of way when, like, my dogdied, as somebody else, when
their father died, right, likeit's not.
It's not about comparing, it'snot about those experiences, but
it's about is that grief, right?
It's that pain that isassociated, it's that shared
feeling and empathy misses areactually extremely dangerous in
(05:10):
every relationship because theywill always do two things they
will always invalidatesomebody's live experience and
they will always block authenticconnection.
So here we go, the meat of thisepisode.
Let's talk about the buckets ofempathy misses.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Ooh, I love when we do buckets.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
So I know buckets are a new thing.
I decided that like it's goingto be on a share buckets.
I was going with anotheranalogy and I, a hundred percent
, was like oh no, we're keepingthe bucket thing Okay.
So I went back and forth abouthow we were just going to like
read them off and I was likethat's boring, so Titi.
What I want you to do is thinkof a time that you were sharing
with someone and it was justlike hard stop, swing and a miss
(05:48):
three strikes.
You're out in terms of someoneempathizing with, like your
experience.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
So like they weren't able to empathize with my
experience.
Yes, so this might throw thisepisode in for a monkey wrench,
because what we talked aboutearlier is, you know, being able
to empathize because you haveshared experiences, even though
they may be different.
But I would say that my biggestempathy miss that I've
experienced with other peoplewas actually in the very
(06:16):
beginning of Owen's diagnosis,and it was among BWS families,
but it was not among BWSfamilies that were fresh in
their experience.
It was among BWS families, butit was not among BWS families
that were fresh in theirexperience.
It was among BWS families whowere years ahead and through a
lot of the hard stuff.
I was explaining how I felt.
I think I wrote a blog episodeor something about my feelings,
(06:38):
about how desperate I wasfeeling, how upset whatever.
It's a lot in the beginning,and I had BWS families, ones
that their children were olderand they were through the
trenches basically telling melike, oh, it's not that bad, oh,
it gets better, oh you'rewasting time feeling horrible
when they live healthy, greatlives.
(06:59):
And I was floored.
I was like how could they besaying that to me when they are
BWS families?
I could not wrap my brainaround it.
But now, four years later, orhowever many years later since I
started doing what I'm doing, Iget how they could feel that
way.
If they don't constantly remindthemselves of what the
beginning was like, they forgetto take themselves back there.
(07:23):
And I don't know if it's easierfor me to take myself back
there because I've been publiclysharing our journey, I don't
know, but that was such a bigmiss for me because those were
the people that I felt likeshould have been the ones that
understood the most.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Oh, yes, now, what you said is true, but I think
there's something deeper goingon there.
I call this type of empathy missand the perpetrator of this the
bolter.
This type of empathy miss comesfrom the avoidance of a
negative or a hard feeling.
Their own discomfort causesthem to refuse to see anyone
else's pain.
They will automaticallyminimize and pivot, avoiding any
(08:01):
real acknowledgement of thepain or the experience that you
have shared with this person.
They want to make sure what youare sharing goes away and that
is why it's an empathy miss.
And to your examplespecifically, I think that the
pain that they felt you knowtheir child going through this
and the fear of like get childgetting cancer, like that's what
(08:24):
they're avoiding is thatdiscomfort, and so they can't
hear your real experience rightnow or empathize with how scared
you were, because all in theirmind they're processing the idea
that they could go back thereand so, like they're bolting
from this, they can't have it.
So, yes, that that bucket Iwould call is the bolter, the
one that avoids and minimizes atall costs.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Yeah, once I experienced that, I literally
made it a mission of mine tonever make a new BWS family feel
that way, because there'salways so much guilt.
You feel guilt, to begin with,amongst yourself for feeling the
way you feel, whether it be, ohmy gosh, like my son and his
tongue.
I don't want people to.
(09:09):
You know what I mean.
Whatever you are thinking of,you put that guilt on yourself
already.
I never want to add to thatguilt.
So anytime I'm talking to a newBWS family and they like just
pour their feelings to me, I'mlike your feelings are valid,
you are allowed to feel that way.
I don't let them wallow in it,but I also tell them like you
need to give yourself space tofeel that way and it is okay.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
No, absolutely, and I think to your point.
We're all guilty of empathymisses.
It's a matter of how yourespond, how you keep it in your
conscious mind to be a betterversion for yourself for the
people around you.
Because if you keep it in yourconscious mind to be a better
version for yourself for thepeople around you, because if
you've been on the receiving endof this, you know how absolute
shit it is.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Yeah, and of course I'm going to give you another
example, and this is one I amreally like, this is one I'm bad
at, and it's trying to fix ortrying to offer advice.
I do that all the time,especially with Mike and I, and
what does that sound like?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
So if I was just like , oh, I don't know, can't get
out of bed today, or Mike saidsomething that was like, oh,
work was really hard today, likewhat would be your go-to
response or like your go-to fixit?
I know, like I heard, have youtried yoga?
So many goddamn times when I'mlike, oh, when they were dizzy,
have you tried yoga?
It is like worked wonders formy uncle Sue's second cousin
(10:27):
removed.
I give a shit about your uncleSue's cousin removed.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
I will say it is very hard, but Mike sometimes will
just be like I just want you tolisten, I don't want a fix, I
just want you to listen.
And that is the one I strugglewith the most.
I will be honest because, forexample, he'll say oh, I like I
woke up.
He'll wake up and be like mybody really hurts today and I'll
immediately be like oh well, ifyou take a walk or if you get
(10:55):
up and go to the gym, Not eatingChick-fil-A.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I'm kidding Mike.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Well, we are always going to eat Chick-fil-A.
We love.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Chick-fil-A.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
But you know, because I know that those things work
for me and they probably wouldwork for him.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
But in that moment he doesn't need that.
And that's a hard one.
It's very hard.
For me it's a huge empathy mix.
The fixer right, this personaand I think because we live in
such a solution-focused world alot of times if you're not
problem solving like this isseen as a very good quality
right To be a problem solver.
It's very valued.
But many times these empathymisses are they stem from
(11:33):
discomfort.
Discomfort at the heart of thefixer is all about them
listening and sitting with thediscomfort that they cannot fix,
help or solve the problem.
One because it's not theirs tosolve, and then two because
sometimes when someone tells youthey have a terminal disease or
his body hurts, like there'snothing that you as a wife can,
(11:55):
can do right for that, and soyou immediately go into that
problem-solving mode, that likehyper kind of controlling mode,
where you're literally out theresinging the builder can we fix
it of the builder?
Yes, can we fix it Of thebuilder?
Yes, we can.
And you know that I mean.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
I will say, though it this one's hard, though, so
like, if you do feel like thereis a suggestion you could give
that would be helpful to them,when is the appropriate time to
give it to them?
Just never.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
No, I mean, I might.
Oh, teresa wants to spoil my,my balance tool, my balance tool
for the week, but it's fine.
What, what?
My biggest thing, though, iswhat cause?
I'm a fixer as well.
I come from a long line offixers.
I'm pretty sure we were Mrs Bobthe builder, whoever that wife
is.
That that's my lineage so, andit really bothered me because,
(12:48):
obviously, the yoga thing, likethose, are the kind of things
you get in the chronic illnesscommunity.
Or you know, when I say I'mreally anxious and someone tells
me to breathe, it's like oh God.
But my first response to any ofthis is how can I help?
How can I show up for you?
Because that allows them totell you I need you like right.
(13:09):
That prompts a question thatmakes it so you don't have to
mind read right.
You don't have to know if Mikewants you to offer suggestions
and be in problem solving modeor if he just wants to vent.
You're putting the onus whereit should be, which is the
person who is sharing, and italso gives you a second for like
all the synapses, to kind oflike your emotions, to meet your
memory, like all that, to kindof connect and give that pause.
(13:32):
But what if?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
you've got someone that perpetually does that.
I'm challenging you.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Oh, you are challenging me today, ok,
because this is a tough one forme, because it's like I think
context matters, right, everysingle time you and Mike are in
a conversation, or you and theboys, right, I don't think every
single one of those is a timein which they are seeking
connection, which is the mainreason these empathy misses come
right.
When I'm not seeking connection, right, I don't care if someone
(14:00):
says, have you tried yoga?
Like it doesn't.
You know what I mean.
It's after I've shared astruggle, it's after I reached
out for connection in which I'msharing something that has been
difficult for me, and then I metwith, like you know, that
invalidation that it becomes aproblem.
And I think that's where thedifference between a fixer and
somebody who's trying to helpyou solve a problem is, because
(14:20):
the fixer is that is coming outof like control and avoidance of
the discomforts, because it'sabout their own problems, right,
so they probably haven'tlistened to anything that you've
said.
And so, right, when I'm talkingabout my chronic illness and
you're telling me, right to godo yoga, it's like you can feel
the very much disconnect, right.
And so if Mike's like gettingout of bed and he says about
(14:42):
like his body hurting and thefirst thing you said is like a
walk Right, I would bet thatyou're probably discomfort too
and you're probably tiredbecause you had to do a double
shift with the boys and he gotall of the things that are
coming into it as opposed totaking a moment in that one.
I think that one is like anempathy miss, as opposed to some
of the other ones you'retalking about, in which, like
perpetually doing it, and Ithink that there is a time in
(15:05):
which you have to be like firmand hard, but I think the bottom
line difference to when it's anempathy miss or not is around
the connection piece.
You know Time place matter.
If you will, okay, which Iactually think you are pretty
good.
I can't think I do not meet youat your peak of empathy.
Let's just say yeah, no.
I met you at like I don't know,like you're on a voyage of
(15:29):
finding empathy, but my point ofsaying that is I don't believe
if you didn't have a pretty goodmeter of that, we could have
ever connected.
That's true.
I never felt like we had anempathy miss, and even in the
times where you did notunderstand why I could not text
you back or you did notunderstand why I would go M-I-A
on you, you might have chewed meout for something, but it was
never at a point in which I wasseeking connection, right.
(15:52):
So you telling me like you needto get better at responding to
me, blah, blah, blah.
Like giving me that solution orgiving me all the ways I could
do it, and me telling you, no, Ipromise you I can't, like it's
just not going to happen.
That never felt like an empathy, like I never felt disconnected
from you because again, it'tagain.
But I wasn't seeking connectionat that time.
I was most of the time justwaking up from a flare and
(16:12):
looking at 10 messages from youthat are angry, right In all of
the times in which I felt likethere I don't believe we could
have ever gotten ourrelationship to where it was if
you didn't have some sort ofawareness of you know of that
and I think for people who maynot have that, like right off
(16:33):
the bat, I can't say what wouldyou tell them to do, because I
think you're still processingthat.
You have a good meter, so wemight have to come back and
follow up on that one, but Ithink bringing it to your
awareness, like you said earlier, is the first step and I think
that you had experienced enoughempathy misses by the time I met
you that you could seek outwhen I was that vulnerable
connection and I needed someoneto be like.
(16:54):
I understand the struggle isreal.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely getting better at it.
I think my biggest strugglewith it is like the perpetual
like.
It's hard for me for somethingto continue on and on, and on
and on and know that there arethings that someone can do but
they're not doing it.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
And then in my brain it switches to like okay, well,
now it kind of just seems likeyou're complaining with no
action, and then that's wherelike, but I think that's where
it gets, like I'm perceived asrough or like not that nice, but
I do think it's a healthybalance there, right, I think
there is a boundary that youcould put there and say like
look, I'm here to listen, butI'm not going to continue to
(17:33):
give you my thoughts, my advice,my energy until you know you're
in a different place.
That's a boundary you could putup.
But I think, right there thoughit goes out of empathy and into
, essentially, like people areallowed to have whatever
emotional responses they have,like that doesn't always mean
they're seeking connectionthough, right, and so I think
it's more.
(17:53):
Do you want to be someone'scomplaint box?
Right, and like you're allowedto put a boundary up to be like
you know what?
I got two sons, that like,that's all the complaints I can
take.
I take them up until 6 PM andthen I check out Out of office.
Yeah, right, you'll find thatthose relationships will look
different, right, those peoplewho kind of are in the same
(18:14):
thing, because, again, mostpeople who are looking for
connection, that's the solve,right, solve will be the
connection, and therefore, thenI wouldn't be coming back and
back and back to you, right,because I'm not seeking
connection.
Right, I'm seeking complaining,right.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
I also like the way that you bring up connection,
because I never really thoughtabout empathy and connection and
I think that's why this otherempathy miss is a big one, and
it's when people are competingfor who has it worse, Like for
my example, right Owen has gonethrough a lot but he has yet to
have the cancer piece.
Thank God I have never had thishappen, but it would be like if
(18:54):
I went to a family and if Ididn't know that their child had
cancer and it would be like,well, my kid had cancer, yours
didn't.
And that for me, wouldcompletely sever any connection
that I was hoping to have withthat person.
Because while that is horribleand I yes, that absolutely is
worse than anything that Owenhas dealt with thus far it still
doesn't mean that what he hasdealt with wasn't difficult.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
I wish I could claim this line, but unfortunately I
cannot.
I don't know if you remember DrDashi Teresa.
She was my therapist in theheight of like you and me
working together, and I used tostruggle with this a lot like
because I used to feel very muchso that I couldn't complain or
have any emotions about mydisease, nor could I share my
story, because I was still ableto work full time.
I was still able to run abusiness.
(19:36):
And she looked at me and shesaid just because the cards you
were given are different thansomebody else's cards does not
mean you have to be thankful forthe cards you were given.
The best.
I love that line.
I wish I could claim it, drDashie, shout out.
But what I think with there'sso many empathy misses and
there's so much more at the coreof this.
(19:58):
I didn't even know I had somany names for this, I ended up
going with the captain of thestruggle bus because this miss
is rooted in not feeling enough,not feeling like they're enough
, not feeling like they have,like feeling like they have
something to prove, or mistakingconnections with one upping
behavior.
For instance, right, ever betalking to someone and it's like
(20:20):
my gosh, you know, like I'mreally struggling I was just
diagnosed with, or my son wasjust diagnosed with, a rare
disease.
And then it's like, oh my gosh,like I have a rare disease,
like before you even finish,like you know what I mean, like
saying that, and then all of asudden, it's like every, it's
like match for match, and thenright, I think, especially
within things that are invisiblefor people.
So we're talking grief, mentalillness, illness, negative
(20:42):
self-talk, I'm talking abouteverything on the spectrum.
I think there's this feeling ofneeding to prove or validate,
or validate our behaviors too.
And right.
So, for instance, I work.
I've never stopped working.
Part of that, I think is juststupidity.
Part of that is the way I wasraised right.
Just because my behaviors rightDon't look like somebody else's
(21:02):
behaviors who might have asimilar condition, it gets into
this very weird olympics for theworst kind of like life thing.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Which is why I said the captain of the struggle bus,
because this person loves theirrole, like put a c on their
chest it's also really hard too,because I do this is one of
those ones that I do believethere are people very rooted in
what you're talking about.
They don't accept themselves.
They want to be the leader ofthe pack in the struggle bus
packs but I also believe somepeople do it innocently, in
(21:32):
order to let the other personknow they have common ground and
that they understand.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Exactly, and that's where that's hard One like it
ends up being one upping andthey're they're missing the
behavior that they're doing.
Right, rather than comeconnecting on a feeling right,
they're coming at you with theexperience.
For instance, oh, my dad justpassed away.
It's like, oh, my grandmapassed away.
It was really really hard forme and my family.
We ended up doing this and this.
I took off work for this, right, and so I completely agree with
(22:00):
you.
And that's that second part,there where it's most of the
time you're just mistakingconnection for kind of like
inserting your experience thatyou feel is equivalent to
whatever the person said.
Right, like, right, lost a dog,I lost a goldfish, you know.
Like I lost a job.
Oh my God, that was really hardfor me too.
Right, and I think actuallywhen I was younger I really
struggled with this a lot.
(22:21):
I wanted so badly, but again, Ithink it was very rooted in like
self-acceptance and finding,like trying to figure out who I
was.
One of the most beautifulthings about my rare disease was
the fact that I got my headtogether.
My internal world became alittle bit more healthy healthy.
But having empathy and showingcompassion does not take away
(22:45):
from your struggle, nor does itlimit your ability to receive
that compassion and empathy inreturn.
I think sometimes we think thatif we say, wow, that's really
hard, or we validate or we don'tdo the whole competing thing,
we think that, well then, howwill the audience feel bad for
me if they're over here feelingbad for Teresa, because, like
(23:07):
her, you know what I mean Like.
So there's thismisunderstanding that there's
only like a certain amount ofempathy to go around in a room.
Right, empathy really doesstack onto itself, because I
think the empathy requiresself-acceptance and most of the
time at that level you're goingto see a lot of vulnerability
and authenticity.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
It also requires self-realization.
You know, just for me, once Iwas able to well, first, like I
was able to identify when peopleweren't really being empathetic
with me, but because I was ableto finally identify that, then
I was able to be like, wait aminute, I might be doing this to
someone else without realizingit.
(23:48):
So it's very important to beable to recognize when it's
happening to you and thencommunicate effectively with
someone and be like, hey, rightnow I really need you to just
listen and I really need you tojust like, try your best to
understand where I'm coming from.
And then, once you're able todo that, if you put empathy as
an importance in your life, youare going to be able to realize
(24:08):
oh shoot, I missed on that one.
You know, and I think that'sreally important for both
handling when someone doesn'tgive you empathy and then also
being more empathetic to others100%, and I mean, I think, to
your point.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
there's two things I want to call out.
One you realizing, right, thatyou aren't empathetic.
I think what you do a very goodjob is that self-acceptance
piece where it's like you don'ttry to pretend you're the most
empathetic person, right?
So I also feel like there's atransparency there in which,
like if you weren't beingempathetic with me at this point
(24:42):
and I think anybody who's closeto you would agree I would just
say to you like dude, seriously, like you know what I mean, and
I think that would then resetyour, your kind of like scope.
I also think thatself-realization or
self-awareness helps, becauseyou know this too, like when you
, when your onset of yourautoimmune disease come on, a
lot of things clicked into placefor you that I was talking
(25:03):
about, the experience.
It became different, and it'sfunny because I never thought
that you needed to apologize orlike I never felt like that.
But I think when you have adeeper understanding of an
experience in a different wayand I think sometimes, like life
just does that it allows you toagain it humbles you.
Well, exactly right.
It's about that self-acceptanceand being okay enough to be
(25:26):
transparent, authentic,vulnerable, take accountability.
I mean one of the hardestboundaries I've had to put up in
my life has been the internalones around what I share with
whom.
Because unfortunately, theseresponses are so natural for all
of us and there's so many morebuckets in the three we talked
about today that I had to putboundaries up for people I love,
(25:47):
because the negative impacts ofthe misses and the invalidation
were so big for me and I thinkyou become a safe person by by.
You never felt like an unsafeperson.
I think a large part of that isbecause you owned that part of
yourself while still growingright.
It's like not an ownedignorance, it was an owned.
Look, I'm not that great at it,but it's not my intent to be
(26:08):
harsh with you or to notunderstand or to not give you
the empathy or connection you'relooking for right.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
I think it's also interesting if you swap out an
empathy and connection, like ina sentence, right, it's like,
instead of being like theempathy you were looking for,
like the connection you werelooking for, I also feel like it
also becomes a little easier tosee what you're like, the
transaction that's happening.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Right, yeah, no, that makes sense.
Okay, so, as a licensedtherapist, what would you say to
all of our listeners before wego to help them with receiving
empathy misses and alsochallenging themselves to be
better with empathy misses andalso challenging themselves to
be better with empathy misses?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Okay.
So before we go, I want toinvite all of us, right, because
we're all guilty of it Toreally be present in the
conversations that we have overthe next week.
Just start small the next weekand try to fight any urges you
have to avoid, judge, minimize,fix when responding to those
around you.
I mean, I know for myself itwas really a struggle when this
(27:06):
was happening to me.
It really opened my eyes to seehow much of an empathy miss I
was as someone, and also someonewho prides myself right as a
therapist, as the person I wantto be, as a good listener.
To realize I was doing this somuch was really jarring for me.
But now, like I said earlier,this one sentence has completely
(27:29):
changed my responses, and noone's perfect, but I do feel
comfortable in saying that I'm astrong empathizer.
I am able to provide thesupport that those around me
need, even if like You're agreat empathizer.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Literally you're a great empathizer.
I feel like I could come to youand be like I'm going to
complain to Christine about themost minuscule thing and she's
going to make me feel sovalidated.
I could complain that Icouldn't get a lid off of a
container or something and Iwould feel great after talking
to you.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Well, if you ask me, I would say that you know well,
how many things did you do today?
You know like, can you giveyourself a break?
I mean, you started at sixo'clock with Owen, anyway, but
yeah, see what I mean.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I can't even help myself, but so good, so good.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
So, like again, that one line is how can I help?
How can I show up for you Anyversion of that right, anything
of that right, anything in whichyou're putting the I don't want
to say responsibility theperson first.
But also, again, you're not amind reader and I know for me.
Sometimes I want you to solvemy problems, like chat GBT does,
and sometimes I want you toshut up and say absolutely
(28:34):
nothing.
And don't forget the mostimportant category in which I
want you to hate absolutelyeverything.
I hate, burn the sticks down tothe ground.
The most important category,because there's nothing worse
than when I'm in that mood andmy mom hits me with a.
You know, I don't think that'sa really like.
You know, either not a big dealor like, let's be positive.
No, no, no, no.
When we're burning to theground, I need that moment of
(28:54):
burning it to the ground, and soyeah, we got to burn to the
ground together.
A hundred percent.
I need to know that we ride atdawn.
So you know, just putting thatback on that person, you're not
a mind reader, allow them totell you.
And honestly, again, it takes ahuge burden off of you.
I don't know about anyone else,but I mean even professionally.
Sometimes, when people come inand they tell me about their
weeks, I'm like, oh my God, it'sonly been seven days and all
(29:19):
this has happened, you know likewhat.
So I just was like, okay, howcan I show up for you?
What do you need?
Do we need to move a session?
Do we like?
What do I need to do to helpyou the best in this moment,
right now?
And I think just kind ofinserting that will create a new
automatic response for you andthen also give you a little bit
more time, cause I knowsometimes the connection to make
that experience to the feelingto then the connection can be
(29:42):
slow a hundred percent.
And so how can I help?
I think is my go-to number oneand again, just spend the week.
I think something you can'tunsee.
You know that's all we got foryou this week.
Peeps, if you enjoyed the show,please go ahead and leave us a
review.
We love hearing from you.
We'll catch you later this week.
Until then, mind your health.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Seriously, you're fine.
You're fine because you havethe power to access your place
of peace anytime you need it.
However, if you get stuck,we're right at the palm of your
hand to help.
Check out our show notes forthis week's source list,
recommended content and CabanaLive Group schedule.
We'll catch you next week for abrand new episode of You're
(30:23):
Always Fine.
Welcome back to You're Always Fine a space to
show up for yourself and embracethe mess that lives underneath.
Because, let's be real, it'sexhausting always being fine.
So grab your headphones andallow yourself to listen, laugh
and even cry, because you arenot alone.
And we aren't always fine, andthat's okay.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Have you ever shared something that was either
personal or maybe it was astruggle, only to feel like the
other person didn't really getyou or get it.
Not that they were mean, butsomething just didn't really sit
right.
Well, join us today as weunpack the concept of empathy,
misses, how it feels on thereceiving end, and maybe even
(00:48):
bring to your awareness somethat you might be guilty of.
I'm your host, christine.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
And I'm Teresa, so let's freaking get into it.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I think both you and I, titi, know the power of
shared experience and theconnection that comes from that,
especially like the empathizingwith someone struggle.
I mean that's kind of how wemet.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yeah, definitely, and I will be one to say you know,
empathy is not, I would say, astrong suit of mine, but I have
learned why are you laughing?
It's been long researched thepositive impacts on decision
making, moral judgment, shortand long-term well-being and
your relationships when you areable to empathize with people.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Oh God, absolutely.
There's a lot to unpack here.
Let's start with what empathyis.
Now I know we tend to think ofempathy and sympathy and we get
that mixed up, but that's likevery surface level and guys, I
get it.
I am pretty sure I was a firstyear master, maybe second year
master student when I finallysorted out the difference
(01:51):
between empathy and sympathy.
So before I share where I thinkwe go wrong, do you want to
take a stab at the definitioninjuries or like what it is?
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Sure, For me now this might not have been my
definition a couple of years agobecause I needed some work in
that department.
It's all about self-realization, but for me now I would say
that empathy is really beingable to kind of understand what
someone else is going throughand see, I want to say empathize
(02:23):
with that, but you can't usethe word to define it.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
This is an English class, so if you would like to,
you can use the word.
No, I'm definitely not thegrammar teacher over here, yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
So you're you're able to see, in my opinion, where
people are coming from, You'reable to kind of feel what
they're feeling and you're ableto understand why they feel that
way.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
So that's a great basic definition, but where it
falls a little bit short and Ithink so many of us miss this
aspect, that empathy is theconnection of a feeling, not the
connection of the experience.
And what I mean by that is thatwe don't have to experience the
exact same thing to be able toshow compassion, to understand,
(03:04):
to empathize with someone.
We've had to have the sameemotion at some point in our
life or experience somethingthat caused that emotion at some
point in our life in order tohave that connection kind of
come through.
And I think, titi, we are greatexamples of what I'm trying to
say here.
Our experience was not the same.
We did not both have rarediseases.
(03:24):
I had the rare disease and youwere a caretaker and a mother of
a child with a rare disease.
The daily experience was verydifferent for both of us, but we
were able to show each otherthat true empathy, because I
didn't need to walk in yourexact shoes to know the
isolation, the pain that youwere experiencing.
It was the feeling that weshared.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, I think that's also a big part of why people
miss on empathy because theymight not have, you know,
whether it be a direct orindirect connection.
They might not have that toresonate with them.
Like you said, for me I wasable to be like okay, our
experiences with rare disease isdifferent, but I understand how
(04:06):
hard it is in my own way.
So I think that's really whereempathy misses calm, because if
you don't have some form ofshared experience, even if it's
different, it is going to behard for you to resonate with
someone else and to understandwhere they're coming from.
And that's why I think beingaware of that and also being
(04:27):
aware if you're not the greatestin the empathy department, I
think that's huge because it issomething you can work on, like
if you're aware that you're notthe most empathetic person or
okay, I may not resonate orunderstand what this person is
going through but like if youunderstand how to still be
empathetic without having thoseexperiences.
That's the key to it all, Ithink.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well, exactly Because , again, if I felt a certain
type of way when, like, my dogdied, as somebody else, when
their father died, right, likeit's not.
It's not about comparing, it'snot about those experiences, but
it's about is that grief, right?
It's that pain that isassociated, it's that shared
feeling and empathy misses areactually extremely dangerous in
(05:10):
every relationship because theywill always do two things they
will always invalidatesomebody's live experience and
they will always block authenticconnection.
So here we go, the meat of thisepisode.
Let's talk about the buckets ofempathy misses.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Ooh, I love when we do buckets.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
So I know buckets are a new thing.
I decided that like it's goingto be on a share buckets.
I was going with anotheranalogy and I, a hundred percent
, was like oh no, we're keepingthe bucket thing Okay.
So I went back and forth abouthow we were just going to like
read them off and I was likethat's boring, so Titi.
What I want you to do is thinkof a time that you were sharing
with someone and it was justlike hard stop, swing and a miss
(05:48):
three strikes.
You're out in terms of someoneempathizing with, like your
experience.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
So like they weren't able to empathize with my
experience.
Yes, so this might throw thisepisode in for a monkey wrench,
because what we talked aboutearlier is, you know, being able
to empathize because you haveshared experiences, even though
they may be different.
But I would say that my biggestempathy miss that I've
experienced with other peoplewas actually in the very
(06:16):
beginning of Owen's diagnosis,and it was among BWS families,
but it was not among BWSfamilies that were fresh in
their experience.
It was among BWS families, butit was not among BWS families
that were fresh in theirexperience.
It was among BWS families whowere years ahead and through a
lot of the hard stuff.
I was explaining how I felt.
I think I wrote a blog episodeor something about my feelings,
(06:38):
about how desperate I wasfeeling, how upset whatever.
It's a lot in the beginning,and I had BWS families, ones
that their children were olderand they were through the
trenches basically telling melike, oh, it's not that bad, oh,
it gets better, oh you'rewasting time feeling horrible
when they live healthy, greatlives.
(06:59):
And I was floored.
I was like how could they besaying that to me when they are
BWS families?
I could not wrap my brainaround it.
But now, four years later, orhowever many years later since I
started doing what I'm doing, Iget how they could feel that
way.
If they don't constantly remindthemselves of what the
beginning was like, they forgetto take themselves back there.
(07:23):
And I don't know if it's easierfor me to take myself back
there because I've been publiclysharing our journey, I don't
know, but that was such a bigmiss for me because those were
the people that I felt likeshould have been the ones that
understood the most.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Oh, yes, now, what you said is true, but I think
there's something deeper goingon there.
I call this type of empathy missand the perpetrator of this the
bolter.
This type of empathy miss comesfrom the avoidance of a
negative or a hard feeling.
Their own discomfort causesthem to refuse to see anyone
else's pain.
They will automaticallyminimize and pivot, avoiding any
(08:01):
real acknowledgement of thepain or the experience that you
have shared with this person.
They want to make sure what youare sharing goes away and that
is why it's an empathy miss.
And to your examplespecifically, I think that the
pain that they felt you knowtheir child going through this
and the fear of like get childgetting cancer, like that's what
(08:24):
they're avoiding is thatdiscomfort, and so they can't
hear your real experience rightnow or empathize with how scared
you were, because all in theirmind they're processing the idea
that they could go back thereand so, like they're bolting
from this, they can't have it.
So, yes, that that bucket Iwould call is the bolter, the
one that avoids and minimizes atall costs.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Yeah, once I experienced that, I literally
made it a mission of mine tonever make a new BWS family feel
that way, because there'salways so much guilt.
You feel guilt, to begin with,amongst yourself for feeling the
way you feel, whether it be, ohmy gosh, like my son and his
tongue.
I don't want people to.
(09:09):
You know what I mean.
Whatever you are thinking of,you put that guilt on yourself
already.
I never want to add to thatguilt.
So anytime I'm talking to a newBWS family and they like just
pour their feelings to me, I'mlike your feelings are valid,
you are allowed to feel that way.
I don't let them wallow in it,but I also tell them like you
need to give yourself space tofeel that way and it is okay.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
No, absolutely, and I think to your point.
We're all guilty of empathymisses.
It's a matter of how yourespond, how you keep it in your
conscious mind to be a betterversion for yourself for the
people around you.
Because if you keep it in yourconscious mind to be a better
version for yourself for thepeople around you, because if
you've been on the receiving endof this, you know how absolute
shit it is.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Yeah, and of course I'm going to give you another
example, and this is one I amreally like, this is one I'm bad
at, and it's trying to fix ortrying to offer advice.
I do that all the time,especially with Mike and I, and
what does that sound like?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
So if I was just like , oh, I don't know, can't get
out of bed today, or Mike saidsomething that was like, oh,
work was really hard today, likewhat would be your go-to
response or like your go-to fixit?
I know, like I heard, have youtried yoga?
So many goddamn times when I'mlike, oh, when they were dizzy,
have you tried yoga?
It is like worked wonders formy uncle Sue's second cousin
(10:27):
removed.
I give a shit about your uncleSue's cousin removed.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
I will say it is very hard, but Mike sometimes will
just be like I just want you tolisten, I don't want a fix, I
just want you to listen.
And that is the one I strugglewith the most.
I will be honest because, forexample, he'll say oh, I like I
woke up.
He'll wake up and be like mybody really hurts today and I'll
immediately be like oh well, ifyou take a walk or if you get
(10:55):
up and go to the gym, Not eatingChick-fil-A.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I'm kidding Mike.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Well, we are always going to eat Chick-fil-A.
We love.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Chick-fil-A.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
But you know, because I know that those things work
for me and they probably wouldwork for him.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
But in that moment he doesn't need that.
And that's a hard one.
It's very hard.
For me it's a huge empathy mix.
The fixer right, this personaand I think because we live in
such a solution-focused world alot of times if you're not
problem solving like this isseen as a very good quality
right To be a problem solver.
It's very valued.
But many times these empathymisses are they stem from
(11:33):
discomfort.
Discomfort at the heart of thefixer is all about them
listening and sitting with thediscomfort that they cannot fix,
help or solve the problem.
One because it's not theirs tosolve, and then two because
sometimes when someone tells youthey have a terminal disease or
his body hurts, like there'snothing that you as a wife can,
(11:55):
can do right for that, and soyou immediately go into that
problem-solving mode, that likehyper kind of controlling mode,
where you're literally out theresinging the builder can we fix
it of the builder?
Yes, can we fix it Of thebuilder?
Yes, we can.
And you know that I mean.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
I will say, though it this one's hard, though, so
like, if you do feel like thereis a suggestion you could give
that would be helpful to them,when is the appropriate time to
give it to them?
Just never.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
No, I mean, I might.
Oh, teresa wants to spoil my,my balance tool, my balance tool
for the week, but it's fine.
What, what?
My biggest thing, though, iswhat cause?
I'm a fixer as well.
I come from a long line offixers.
I'm pretty sure we were Mrs Bobthe builder, whoever that wife
is.
That that's my lineage so, andit really bothered me because,
(12:48):
obviously, the yoga thing, likethose, are the kind of things
you get in the chronic illnesscommunity.
Or you know, when I say I'mreally anxious and someone tells
me to breathe, it's like oh God.
But my first response to any ofthis is how can I help?
How can I show up for you?
Because that allows them totell you I need you like right.
(13:09):
That prompts a question thatmakes it so you don't have to
mind read right.
You don't have to know if Mikewants you to offer suggestions
and be in problem solving modeor if he just wants to vent.
You're putting the onus whereit should be, which is the
person who is sharing, and italso gives you a second for like
all the synapses, to kind oflike your emotions, to meet your
memory, like all that, to kindof connect and give that pause.
(13:32):
But what if?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
you've got someone that perpetually does that.
I'm challenging you.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Oh, you are challenging me today, ok,
because this is a tough one forme, because it's like I think
context matters, right, everysingle time you and Mike are in
a conversation, or you and theboys, right, I don't think every
single one of those is a timein which they are seeking
connection, which is the mainreason these empathy misses come
right.
When I'm not seeking connection, right, I don't care if someone
(14:00):
says, have you tried yoga?
Like it doesn't.
You know what I mean.
It's after I've shared astruggle, it's after I reached
out for connection in which I'msharing something that has been
difficult for me, and then I metwith, like you know, that
invalidation that it becomes aproblem.
And I think that's where thedifference between a fixer and
somebody who's trying to helpyou solve a problem is, because
(14:20):
the fixer is that is coming outof like control and avoidance of
the discomforts, because it'sabout their own problems, right,
so they probably haven'tlistened to anything that you've
said.
And so, right, when I'm talkingabout my chronic illness and
you're telling me, right to godo yoga, it's like you can feel
the very much disconnect, right.
And so if Mike's like gettingout of bed and he says about
(14:42):
like his body hurting and thefirst thing you said is like a
walk Right, I would bet thatyou're probably discomfort too
and you're probably tiredbecause you had to do a double
shift with the boys and he gotall of the things that are
coming into it as opposed totaking a moment in that one.
I think that one is like anempathy miss, as opposed to some
of the other ones you'retalking about, in which, like
perpetually doing it, and Ithink that there is a time in
(15:05):
which you have to be like firmand hard, but I think the bottom
line difference to when it's anempathy miss or not is around
the connection piece.
You know Time place matter.
If you will, okay, which Iactually think you are pretty
good.
I can't think I do not meet youat your peak of empathy.
Let's just say yeah, no.
I met you at like I don't know,like you're on a voyage of
(15:29):
finding empathy, but my point ofsaying that is I don't believe
if you didn't have a pretty goodmeter of that, we could have
ever connected.
That's true.
I never felt like we had anempathy miss, and even in the
times where you did notunderstand why I could not text
you back or you did notunderstand why I would go M-I-A
on you, you might have chewed meout for something, but it was
never at a point in which I wasseeking connection, right.
(15:52):
So you telling me like you needto get better at responding to
me, blah, blah, blah.
Like giving me that solution orgiving me all the ways I could
do it, and me telling you, no, Ipromise you I can't, like it's
just not going to happen.
That never felt like an empathy, like I never felt disconnected
from you because again, it'tagain.
But I wasn't seeking connectionat that time.
I was most of the time justwaking up from a flare and
(16:12):
looking at 10 messages from youthat are angry, right In all of
the times in which I felt likethere I don't believe we could
have ever gotten ourrelationship to where it was if
you didn't have some sort ofawareness of you know of that
and I think for people who maynot have that, like right off
(16:33):
the bat, I can't say what wouldyou tell them to do, because I
think you're still processingthat.
You have a good meter, so wemight have to come back and
follow up on that one, but Ithink bringing it to your
awareness, like you said earlier, is the first step and I think
that you had experienced enoughempathy misses by the time I met
you that you could seek outwhen I was that vulnerable
connection and I needed someoneto be like.
(16:54):
I understand the struggle isreal.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely getting better at it.
I think my biggest strugglewith it is like the perpetual
like.
It's hard for me for somethingto continue on and on, and on
and on and know that there arethings that someone can do but
they're not doing it.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
And then in my brain it switches to like okay, well,
now it kind of just seems likeyou're complaining with no
action, and then that's wherelike, but I think that's where
it gets, like I'm perceived asrough or like not that nice, but
I do think it's a healthybalance there, right, I think
there is a boundary that youcould put there and say like
look, I'm here to listen, butI'm not going to continue to
(17:33):
give you my thoughts, my advice,my energy until you know you're
in a different place.
That's a boundary you could putup.
But I think, right there thoughit goes out of empathy and into
, essentially, like people areallowed to have whatever
emotional responses they have,like that doesn't always mean
they're seeking connectionthough, right, and so I think
it's more.
(17:53):
Do you want to be someone'scomplaint box?
Right, and like you're allowedto put a boundary up to be like
you know what?
I got two sons, that like,that's all the complaints I can
take.
I take them up until 6 PM andthen I check out Out of office.
Yeah, right, you'll find thatthose relationships will look
different, right, those peoplewho kind of are in the same
(18:14):
thing, because, again, mostpeople who are looking for
connection, that's the solve,right, solve will be the
connection, and therefore, thenI wouldn't be coming back and
back and back to you, right,because I'm not seeking
connection.
Right, I'm seeking complaining,right.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
I also like the way that you bring up connection,
because I never really thoughtabout empathy and connection and
I think that's why this otherempathy miss is a big one, and
it's when people are competingfor who has it worse, Like for
my example, right Owen has gonethrough a lot but he has yet to
have the cancer piece.
Thank God I have never had thishappen, but it would be like if
(18:54):
I went to a family and if Ididn't know that their child had
cancer and it would be like,well, my kid had cancer, yours
didn't.
And that for me, wouldcompletely sever any connection
that I was hoping to have withthat person.
Because while that is horribleand I yes, that absolutely is
worse than anything that Owenhas dealt with thus far it still
doesn't mean that what he hasdealt with wasn't difficult.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
I wish I could claim this line, but unfortunately I
cannot.
I don't know if you remember DrDashi Teresa.
She was my therapist in theheight of like you and me
working together, and I used tostruggle with this a lot like
because I used to feel very muchso that I couldn't complain or
have any emotions about mydisease, nor could I share my
story, because I was still ableto work full time.
I was still able to run abusiness.
(19:36):
And she looked at me and shesaid just because the cards you
were given are different thansomebody else's cards does not
mean you have to be thankful forthe cards you were given.
The best.
I love that line.
I wish I could claim it, drDashie, shout out.
But what I think with there'sso many empathy misses and
there's so much more at the coreof this.
(19:58):
I didn't even know I had somany names for this, I ended up
going with the captain of thestruggle bus because this miss
is rooted in not feeling enough,not feeling like they're enough
, not feeling like they have,like feeling like they have
something to prove, or mistakingconnections with one upping
behavior.
For instance, right, ever betalking to someone and it's like
(20:20):
my gosh, you know, like I'mreally struggling I was just
diagnosed with, or my son wasjust diagnosed with, a rare
disease.
And then it's like, oh my gosh,like I have a rare disease,
like before you even finish,like you know what I mean, like
saying that, and then all of asudden, it's like every, it's
like match for match, and thenright, I think, especially
within things that are invisiblefor people.
So we're talking grief, mentalillness, illness, negative
(20:42):
self-talk, I'm talking abouteverything on the spectrum.
I think there's this feeling ofneeding to prove or validate,
or validate our behaviors too.
And right.
So, for instance, I work.
I've never stopped working.
Part of that, I think is juststupidity.
Part of that is the way I wasraised right.
Just because my behaviors rightDon't look like somebody else's
(21:02):
behaviors who might have asimilar condition, it gets into
this very weird olympics for theworst kind of like life thing.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Which is why I said the captain of the struggle bus,
because this person loves theirrole, like put a c on their
chest it's also really hard too,because I do this is one of
those ones that I do believethere are people very rooted in
what you're talking about.
They don't accept themselves.
They want to be the leader ofthe pack in the struggle bus
packs but I also believe somepeople do it innocently, in
(21:32):
order to let the other personknow they have common ground and
that they understand.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Exactly, and that's where that's hard One like it
ends up being one upping andthey're they're missing the
behavior that they're doing.
Right, rather than comeconnecting on a feeling right,
they're coming at you with theexperience.
For instance, oh, my dad justpassed away.
It's like, oh, my grandmapassed away.
It was really really hard forme and my family.
We ended up doing this and this.
I took off work for this, right, and so I completely agree with
(22:00):
you.
And that's that second part,there where it's most of the
time you're just mistakingconnection for kind of like
inserting your experience thatyou feel is equivalent to
whatever the person said.
Right, like, right, lost a dog,I lost a goldfish, you know.
Like I lost a job.
Oh my God, that was really hardfor me too.
Right, and I think actuallywhen I was younger I really
struggled with this a lot.
(22:21):
I wanted so badly, but again, Ithink it was very rooted in like
self-acceptance and finding,like trying to figure out who I
was.
One of the most beautifulthings about my rare disease was
the fact that I got my headtogether.
My internal world became alittle bit more healthy healthy.
But having empathy and showingcompassion does not take away
(22:45):
from your struggle, nor does itlimit your ability to receive
that compassion and empathy inreturn.
I think sometimes we think thatif we say, wow, that's really
hard, or we validate or we don'tdo the whole competing thing,
we think that, well then, howwill the audience feel bad for
me if they're over here feelingbad for Teresa, because, like
(23:07):
her, you know what I mean Like.
So there's thismisunderstanding that there's
only like a certain amount ofempathy to go around in a room.
Right, empathy really doesstack onto itself, because I
think the empathy requiresself-acceptance and most of the
time at that level you're goingto see a lot of vulnerability
and authenticity.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
It also requires self-realization.
You know, just for me, once Iwas able to well, first, like I
was able to identify when peopleweren't really being empathetic
with me, but because I was ableto finally identify that, then
I was able to be like, wait aminute, I might be doing this to
someone else without realizingit.
(23:48):
So it's very important to beable to recognize when it's
happening to you and thencommunicate effectively with
someone and be like, hey, rightnow I really need you to just
listen and I really need you tojust like, try your best to
understand where I'm coming from.
And then, once you're able todo that, if you put empathy as
an importance in your life, youare going to be able to realize
(24:08):
oh shoot, I missed on that one.
You know, and I think that'sreally important for both
handling when someone doesn'tgive you empathy and then also
being more empathetic to others100%, and I mean, I think, to
your point.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
there's two things I want to call out.
One you realizing, right, thatyou aren't empathetic.
I think what you do a very goodjob is that self-acceptance
piece where it's like you don'ttry to pretend you're the most
empathetic person, right?
So I also feel like there's atransparency there in which,
like if you weren't beingempathetic with me at this point
(24:42):
and I think anybody who's closeto you would agree I would just
say to you like dude, seriously, like you know what I mean, and
I think that would then resetyour, your kind of like scope.
I also think thatself-realization or
self-awareness helps, becauseyou know this too, like when you
, when your onset of yourautoimmune disease come on, a
lot of things clicked into placefor you that I was talking
(25:03):
about, the experience.
It became different, and it'sfunny because I never thought
that you needed to apologize orlike I never felt like that.
But I think when you have adeeper understanding of an
experience in a different wayand I think sometimes, like life
just does that it allows you toagain it humbles you.
Well, exactly right.
It's about that self-acceptanceand being okay enough to be
(25:26):
transparent, authentic,vulnerable, take accountability.
I mean one of the hardestboundaries I've had to put up in
my life has been the internalones around what I share with
whom.
Because unfortunately, theseresponses are so natural for all
of us and there's so many morebuckets in the three we talked
about today that I had to putboundaries up for people I love,
(25:47):
because the negative impacts ofthe misses and the invalidation
were so big for me and I thinkyou become a safe person by by.
You never felt like an unsafeperson.
I think a large part of that isbecause you owned that part of
yourself while still growingright.
It's like not an ownedignorance, it was an owned.
Look, I'm not that great at it,but it's not my intent to be
(26:08):
harsh with you or to notunderstand or to not give you
the empathy or connection you'relooking for right.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
I think it's also interesting if you swap out an
empathy and connection, like ina sentence, right, it's like,
instead of being like theempathy you were looking for,
like the connection you werelooking for, I also feel like it
also becomes a little easier tosee what you're like, the
transaction that's happening.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Right, yeah, no, that makes sense.
Okay, so, as a licensedtherapist, what would you say to
all of our listeners before wego to help them with receiving
empathy misses and alsochallenging themselves to be
better with empathy misses andalso challenging themselves to
be better with empathy misses?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Okay.
So before we go, I want toinvite all of us, right, because
we're all guilty of it Toreally be present in the
conversations that we have overthe next week.
Just start small the next weekand try to fight any urges you
have to avoid, judge, minimize,fix when responding to those
around you.
I mean, I know for myself itwas really a struggle when this
(27:06):
was happening to me.
It really opened my eyes to seehow much of an empathy miss I
was as someone, and also someonewho prides myself right as a
therapist, as the person I wantto be, as a good listener.
To realize I was doing this somuch was really jarring for me.
But now, like I said earlier,this one sentence has completely
(27:29):
changed my responses, and noone's perfect, but I do feel
comfortable in saying that I'm astrong empathizer.
I am able to provide thesupport that those around me
need, even if like You're agreat empathizer.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Literally you're a great empathizer.
I feel like I could come to youand be like I'm going to
complain to Christine about themost minuscule thing and she's
going to make me feel sovalidated.
I could complain that Icouldn't get a lid off of a
container or something and Iwould feel great after talking
to you.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Well, if you ask me, I would say that you know well,
how many things did you do today?
You know like, can you giveyourself a break?
I mean, you started at sixo'clock with Owen, anyway, but
yeah, see what I mean.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I can't even help myself, but so good, so good.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
So, like again, that one line is how can I help?
How can I show up for you Anyversion of that right, anything
of that right, anything in whichyou're putting the I don't want
to say responsibility theperson first.
But also, again, you're not amind reader and I know for me.
Sometimes I want you to solvemy problems, like chat GBT does,
and sometimes I want you toshut up and say absolutely
(28:34):
nothing.
And don't forget the mostimportant category in which I
want you to hate absolutelyeverything.
I hate, burn the sticks down tothe ground.
The most important category,because there's nothing worse
than when I'm in that mood andmy mom hits me with a.
You know, I don't think that'sa really like.
You know, either not a big dealor like, let's be positive.
No, no, no, no.
When we're burning to theground, I need that moment of
(28:54):
burning it to the ground, and soyeah, we got to burn to the
ground together.
A hundred percent.
I need to know that we ride atdawn.
So you know, just putting thatback on that person, you're not
a mind reader, allow them totell you.
And honestly, again, it takes ahuge burden off of you.
I don't know about anyone else,but I mean even professionally.
Sometimes, when people come inand they tell me about their
weeks, I'm like, oh my God, it'sonly been seven days and all
(29:19):
this has happened, you know likewhat.
So I just was like, okay, howcan I show up for you?
What do you need?
Do we need to move a session?
Do we like?
What do I need to do to helpyou the best in this moment,
right now?
And I think just kind ofinserting that will create a new
automatic response for you andthen also give you a little bit
more time, cause I knowsometimes the connection to make
that experience to the feelingto then the connection can be
(29:42):
slow a hundred percent.
And so how can I help?
I think is my go-to number oneand again, just spend the week.
I think something you can'tunsee.
You know that's all we got foryou this week.
Peeps, if you enjoyed the show,please go ahead and leave us a
review.
We love hearing from you.
We'll catch you later this week.
Until then, mind your health.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Seriously, you're fine.
You're fine because you havethe power to access your place
of peace anytime you need it.
However, if you get stuck,we're right at the palm of your
hand to help.
Check out our show notes forthis week's source list,
recommended content and CabanaLive Group schedule.
We'll catch you next week for abrand new episode of You're
(30:23):
Always Fine.
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