March 5, 2024 • 38 mins
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Ever found yourself clinging to the notion of a fairytale ending in marriage, only to face the less-than-magical day-to-day realities? It's Kristine and Theresa here, holding nothing back as we dissect the challenges and complexities that come with saying "I do." From the evolution of core values to the trials of communication and compromise, we're peeling back the layers of marital myths and highlighting the resilient threads that can either bind or break a partnership.
Waltzing into the arena of love languages, we critically examine their practicality and limitations. Love, as we see it, isn't a psychic ability; it's a two-way street paved with the bricks of clear articulation of needs and understanding. We share our personal tales of navigating household roles, preferences in affection, and social boundaries, driving home the point that a robust relationship is built on candid exchanges and an honest, open dialogue.
Wrap up your headphones and get ready to listen in on our most intimate chapter yet—where we underscore the transformative power of communication in the ever-changing dance of marriage. Through personal revelations and the guidance of couples therapy, we touch on the importance of mutual growth and empathy. Join us as we affirm that the journey of marriage, with all its ups and downs, requires a symphony of patience, empathy, and commitment to personal development for a truly harmonious duet.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to You're Always Fine a space to
show up for yourself and embracethe mess that lives underneath.
Because, let's be real, it'sexhausting always being fine.
So grab your headphones andallow yourself to listen, laugh
and even cry, because you're notalone and we aren't always fine
, and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hey Beeps, I'm your host, Christine, and I'm Teresa.
All right, TC, I would like totell you a little story today.
Okay, so, once upon a timethere was this girl and she was
okay.
You know she had someself-esteem issues, you know she
had some family stuff going on.
(00:44):
But she then met, you know, herPrince Charming, and he came
and he swept her off her feetand gave her confidence and he
proposed and everyone was like,you know, they faced a little
adversity there.
They got married and they livedhappily ever after.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
There's a fairy tale we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yes, this is a classic fairy tale story, and
the reason I'm bringing it up isbecause I think that from a
very young age, that's kind ofwhat we're taught about marriage
and or like relationships.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Oh, yeah, that's like what all the Disney movies.
Yeah, it's like what all theDisney movies were.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Right, someone's gonna come to save you.
And then you know happily andend they lived happily ever
after.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Someone lied to us.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, lies, liars.
What dream are they selling us?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
No, that sounds horrible.
It sounds horrible butseriously, like I'm not even
getting into yet around, likewhat is modeled in your
household and marriage and likethat effect on you know
relationships and marriage, butjust like, just fundamentally it
feels off right when you startthinking about it.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, I feel like you sell that to people and that's
why people don't last, becausethat's what they expect, and it
isn't like that.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So, if you haven't guessed, today we are getting
into marriage and the incredibleamount of work it takes to keep
a marriage alive.
Of course, every relationship.
What specifically, today we'rediving into marriage?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yes, we are, let's go .
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Let's do it All right , so happily ever after the best
day of your life, right?
I just I remember thinking thisone.
I got married.
It was, it was one of the bestdays.
But man, talk about a pooroutlook or like a dreary outlook
when you think about, like, ifthat was the best day of my
(02:47):
marriage, yeah, that's kind ofright, like I don't know, don't
you think that?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, I think that mentality I don't know, not
showing the hard parts ofmarriage, not like being
realistic, I don't know.
To me it's not realistic.
Like sometimes you see onInstagram and Facebook and look,
I love my husband, I love him,but like if you don't want to
kill your person every once in awhile, I just don't think your
relationship is real.
Like I just don't think it'sreal.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Well and also right.
I think so many things rightAlso.
No marriage is gonna save you.
You have to save yourself.
The crazy part is the personthat I was back in 2017 when I
got married is nowhere new.
The person I am today, oh yeah,major difference.
But yeah, your thing that iskind of crazy when you think
about like you are expected to,like right To have and to hold,
(03:39):
and sickness and health and allthose things.
But I'm not sure Kerry wouldhave chosen this version of me
and like there's been timeswhere I'm like I wouldn't have
chose this version of you.
Yeah, I'm not going anywhere,but like I can tell you like
this era of your life, like Iwouldn't have looked twice, kind
of thing.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah, Well, I think that's why it's.
I think that's why people giveup, because you're sold like
this idea that everything'sperfect, you guys are gonna be
exactly who you are, and then,like 10 years later, that's just
not even possible.
Like, if you just look at yourown life, right, like before
marriage, I am not when I was 16and then 26.
(04:20):
Like I mean I was married bythat point, but like I was not
the same, I'm not the sameperson, thank God.
Like if I was the same person Iwas when I was 16, like it just
wouldn't.
I don't even know if I'd bealive.
Like you know, like there's justa lot of growth that you make
and that's why it's reallyimportant to like have a
realistic view of marriage andgo into it with, like the idea
(04:42):
that, okay, the core values ofmy person I really, really love.
Like I know they're gonnachange, I know we're gonna grow,
hopefully we can do thattogether, but like to go in it
with this idea that you're nevergonna argue, you're never gonna
fight, you guys aren't gonnachange in some ways.
That may be difficult for theother person, it's just not
realistic and I think that's whypeople quit and give up and
(05:04):
don't fight for each other.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And you know, I think it's so interesting because
I've always said that I thinkthat marriages don't break down
because there's a lack of love.
I firmly believe that marriagesbreak down because there's a
lack of communication.
Or, you know, we start tosomehow get off right, Like off
(05:29):
the same page, or you.
A way that used to work tocommunicate no longer works.
So, I'm not sure if youexperienced this when you know.
You guys were faced likeeverything was Owen was
happening and oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Well, when you throw kids into the mix also, it's
like another complicated, likelayer, because you're used to
going from just each other and,like you know, coming home from
work, whatever you are eachother the honeymoon phase, yeah,
like the honeymoon phase, likeit's just you guys and then you
bring kids into it and it's likeyou automatically see less of
(06:07):
each other or just the qualitytime is different, and it's an
adjustment.
And I think it's definitelyadjustment in terms of like men
do the best that they can tounderstand it, but like when
you're a mom and you have yourchildren, like they just kind of
take a front seat, especiallyin the beginning, because they
can't fend for themselves, andthat's an adjustment.
(06:29):
Like I know that that wasdifficult for Mike and I it was,
it was hard.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Well, so right, it's hard.
And then I think that whathappens there is like the way
you guys used to communicate orshow love then changes, and then
that gap just kind of keepsgrowing.
I mean.
Terry and I saw that happen tous when I got sick.
You know she has always been abig supporter, but everything
like she would say what it didthat used to maybe be fine, such
(06:56):
as like I love, I miss when youcook for me.
I miss doing this for me.
I took that as a completeslight against me.
She was trying to expresssomething which is like
something she missed, that thisdisease took away from her.
But all I felt was guilt andthen there was never been an
anger towards her from that.
And so, like, all I did waslike widen this gap and it took
quite literally us Like.
(07:17):
I remember, like we wrote anentire workbook essentially
about how to reconnect afterlike tragedy or something
happens, because you know againa different era, you're
different people and like, whatused to work doesn't work and
you have to just like anythingright, you have to figure out
what you're going to do aboutthat.
And I think sometimes we getcomfortable in marriage and we
(07:39):
just like, are like, definitelywe don't put that effort in.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah, and in terms of like, let's even talk about
like, love languages and stufflike that.
Those also.
I know, I know those also canchange.
Like like okay, mike's lovelanguage has always been like
physical affection, like that'sjust how he is, and I used to be
like that.
(08:03):
But now I have kids and they'retouching me all the time.
So I'm like about a time hegets home from work I'm like
just don't touch me.
But for me it's become becausethere's more on my plate,
there's more to do with the kids.
For me it's like acts ofservice, like if I see you doing
the dishes, if I see yousweeping the floor, if I see you
(08:26):
loading the laundry, okay,without you having to ask yeah.
Like let's okay, we're good,let's go.
You know what I mean.
So you also have to understandthat that can change and there's
factors that cause that.
And that was a little hard forhim.
He was like I don't understandand it's funny, he'll do the
(08:48):
walking by butt slap.
And I have a love-heyrelationship with that.
Sometimes I like it, sometimesI don't.
So, like you have to justfigure out, like along the way,
like what is changing, and justlike adapt.
But a lot of people don't wannado that because it's work.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Exactly it's work.
Now, you know I wasn't gonna gohere because I know I have a
very strong hot take on lovelanguages and so, but here, but
we have arrived.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
So I will We've arrived.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I hate the love languages.
But before everyone comes to mein the comments and everything
else, please hear me out.
I hate the love languagesmostly because I think that it
was a great tool that was likegiven for relationships to get
people to understand better.
However, one let's not get intothe fact there's not that much
empirical evidence around likethe substantial thing.
(09:41):
But also I think it then hasbecome a little bit more like
you can only have one of thefive and the reality of it is
it's so many more than five lovelanguages.
And also I don't think it doesa great job of helping you to
understand that most of the timeyou give what you would like to
receive and I don't think itdoes enough to like walk people
(10:05):
through, to get them like.
People use it as this great tooland I think it falls short and
it doesn't like serve peopleenough, you know, and so that's
my issue with it.
So it's not really like the idor what it's trying to do.
I just think it becomes over.
It's an overgeneralization, asI guess most theories are.
But if you don't write, likeyou said, acts of service, right
(10:25):
, acts of service are great, butmost people don't want that act
of service after they have toask for it, right?
Correct.
And then it gets into though thefact of like one of the biggest
things I see I've seen in myown marriage.
I have to constantly stopmyself and I see it in all the
couples I do.
We are under the assumptionthat if you love me, you would
(10:49):
just do this and if you careabout me you would stop doing
this and like that's mindreading.
That is games.
That is so incredibly toxic foryour relationship or marriage
to do that.
You know you just brought it upwith the butt slaps A great
example, right.
So you've just said thatsometimes you like it and
sometimes you don't.
(11:10):
So if you were to say, if youlove me, you stop doing that,
Right, and I kind of love tothat, See about how crazy that
would be.
But sometimes he's allowed todo it and that can like benefit
him.
But right, it's confusing andthere and nobody's gonna be able
to do it.
It's very confusing.
Every single second of everysingle day, when you're also
constantly changing Right.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, and like that scenario, like we've him and I
have talked about that beforebecause he's like I like it's
like the notebook scene what doyou want, what do you want?
So we talked about that and Iwas like I have to do a better
job at communicating with himand he has to do a better job of
, like, assessing the situation.
You know, like, like be alittle bit more cognizant of
(11:56):
what is happening around.
Like I would just like you,like I know you love me, I would
like you to just think about,like okay, right now she's got
two kids wrapped around herankles, she is loading the
dishwasher.
She looks stressed.
Will this butt slap be wellreceived, like you know?
So that, I think, is a way oflike I need to communicate
(12:19):
better and he also needs to kindof like assess the situation
and I think, when you do it thatway, rather than saying if you
love me, you'll do this, likeit's just an easier way to grow
and an easier way to positivelyfeed off of each other.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
One to your point.
Right there too, I think thatin most households, right
whether you have children or not, there becomes a like default
either adult or default parent.
And I think a lot of times weenable that behavior right, like
I have enabled it so that mywife literally gets a piece of
paper.
It could be like you're thegreatest ever and she'd be like,
(12:55):
oh, that's adult paperwork, andshe'll hand it right to me.
I'm like, did you read thepaper?
Like, did you like this?
And so right, I think, too,it's so important to realize
that, like, if you do not, ifyou never show your spouse like
that is stressful to have twokids around you, or like what
you do is stressful, and you areconstantly just kind of like
(13:16):
creating this idealic situationfor, like the family unit, well
then, how would he ever knowwhen they're like to even ask
for that environmental cueyou're talking about?
Because, like, he just thinksthat you've got it, you're a
superhero.
It's kind of like what we do toour parents, where it's like, oh
my God, our parents haveemotions, like I thought they
were just, like you know,invincible, and that's what
(13:38):
happens.
Like that, I think we've gotdefault parent as well.
But I want to say this againlike it is not your spouse's job
to play Miss Cleo, you knowit's like it's your job to
manage your emotions, it's yourjob to communicate what you need
in the moment and, on top ofthat, what you really need or
want in the moment, like I thinkanother great example is like
(13:58):
when people like they have aboys night and you try, you want
to be the coolest spouse, right, but you know he's had a boys
night.
Or you know, if you're my wife,you know a daddy daughter night
, you know hanging out withoutme, like for four nights.
And when they're like, hey, doyou mind?
It's like you want to be thecoolest spouse or you like you
just you sometimes say yes,cause you just want to be left
(14:19):
alone, kind of thing.
But then it happens, it happensand you don't say that like
it's hit a limit, or you don'tsay that like I feel lonely or
whatever, like that's not fair,that puts them in a trap.
You know what I mean and I think, like, especially with friends
in really like dips, like that'sreally hard Because, again, you
don't want to, we don't want tobe controlling, we don't want
(14:40):
to.
You know, do this.
But if you're not expressingyour needs or your wants, your
partner has no shot, no shot atall.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
No shot.
And then you wind up like Ifeel like Mike is kind of like
that, like I'm very like no,like this is what I want, this
is what I don't want, and hekind of in the beginning, like
middle of our marriage, wouldcompromise, Like when he would
really actually want to be doingsomething else, and like we,
then he would be like really notthat happy or like aggravated
(15:08):
while we're doing whatever wedecided, and I'm like what's
your problem?
Like.
And then I find out like ohwell, I would have rather have
done this, but I decided to dothis for you.
I'm like, no like.
I would rather you say what youwant and let's do it together.
It's like.
It's like that same weird thingthat, like Mike and I got a
(15:28):
huge argument for when I waspregnant during Christmas,
because we decided, like we'rehaving a baby, let's save money,
we're not gonna do Christmasgifts.
Okay, like we had a wholeconversation about it.
We're not gonna do Christmasgifts, we are not doing
stockings, we are doing quiteliterally nothing, okay.
So when I say that we're doingnothing, like we were very clear
(15:50):
, okay, and his whole family iscoming over for Christmas day to
open gifts and stuff I alreadyand all of a sudden, oh my God,
all of a sudden, he's likemissing on Christmas Eve because
he's like a last minute shopper.
And I'm like, I call him, I'mlike where are you and what are
you doing?
Oh, I'm, you know, just gettingsome last minute things.
(16:10):
And I was like, please tell methat you are not getting me
Christmas gifts, like.
And he was like well, you know.
And I was like, no, I don'tknow, because I got you nothing,
like I quite literally got younothing, because we said we were
doing nothing.
Not a card, not a card, likenothing, nothing.
So I was freaking out.
I was like now I'm going tolook like an asshole in front of
(16:31):
your family because there's nogift Like I was like pretty.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I mean, I know you've known Mike's family for a while
, but, right, you add factors,right, like exactly what you're
saying.
Like now you're worried noteven about what you said to Mike
, you're worried about what itlooks like to everyone Because,
again, marriage is also thisweird game of like everyone has
a judgment on it, right Likeit's like you're nasty, oh,
you're so mean to your spouse,or like they don't have any
(16:55):
backstory or anyone ever.
No one will care that, like youguys said this and he just
decided not to listen.
All the what my poor Filipinoson who did not get to yes, get
any gifts from his horrible wife, I know.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
And I'm like pregnant as hell.
I'm like dude, and he's like Ican't believe you're mad at me.
I'm just trying to give you agood Christmas.
I'm like Mike we talked aboutthis Like wait, and he's like,
well, you know, girls do thatthing.
I'm like I don't know who youthink I am.
You have known me since I was14.
Like there is no mind gameswith me.
I'm like I don't have a giftfor you.
You're getting nothing.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Like- and I'm gonna have to handle.
Thank God you have a reallyawesome mother-in-law Like, who
was probably like I'm gonna gethim nothing but-.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Like so yeah, whoever in the past, whoever maybe
before you, I mean.
Granted, you guys were 14.
So I don't know what damagelike happened, but in middle
school, but potentially right,there's some sort of unwritten
rule where it's like if I saythat it's good and somebody else
either gets in my head or belike oh bro, like you know, she
says it's good, but you betterhave something for her for
Christmas, like Right, thatwould like way more than like
(17:59):
whatever conversation youmutually had.
So, again, like other outsidefactors, outside of like what we
communicated, and trusting that, when we come to the table, I'm
bringing my honest emotions andyou're bringing your honest
emotions and we're getting tothe highest possible level we
can get to together for ourmarriage.
Right, you're talking justabout compromise and I actually
(18:20):
have a very strong.
People say marriage iscompromise and I say BS,
bullshit.
I'm calling bullshit onmarriage being compromised.
Again, before you kill me, hearme out.
I believe that compromise endsup being currency.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
And I like that.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I think it becomes very dangerous.
So when it's like a tip for tat, exactly, but hear me out.
So, because what usuallyhappens is compromise One person
can compromise about pizza orChinese.
I wanted Chinese, but youwanted pizza, so I didn't care
as much, so I just let you havethe pizza.
And then I do that, let's saylike several times, with small
(18:59):
things like that.
And then we're about to decideI got this new job and I want to
move across the country and youdon't.
And now we come to the table todiscuss this like big life
thing, and you come here and youempty out your pockets of all
your compromise currency and saylike I'm always doing this for
you, I'm always, you know,compromising this and that.
And now, right, you're tryingto cash in and say like no, that
(19:22):
doesn't happen.
And it does happen.
And so what I like to say andlike what I really have to
actively work hard in mymarriage is, like you, me and
our marriage, there are threepeople in a marriage.
Our marriage is one person andfor me it's easier to think
about it that way, but like it'sTerry's wants, christine's
wants and then the highestpossible place we can get our
marriage that they're.
(19:44):
I don't feel like I'mcompromising and you don't like
no one feels like they're givinganything up.
It's just like the highestlevel together that we can get,
not the highest levelindividually, the highest level
together.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
And I think but that's what's so important,
because that's not how culturetoday embrace it Like.
First of all, I don't reallyfeel like culture embraces
marriage at all, but I feel likethat's not how marriage is
looked at today.
It's very like you oriented,and I do think that's why people
don't stay together.
I do think that's why peoplefail, because they have this
(20:17):
idea that, like me, me, me, me,me, me, me, and it doesn't work
that way.
And, like you said, if youcompromise too much, you're
gonna get resentful, you'regonna get, you know like there
should be a third option.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
There's what you want , your spouse wants, and then
what you want together Exactlyand you're married and, like I
said, for me I like thinking ofit as a completely separate
person, because then I'm allowedto have, I can come to the
table and feel so and be soincredibly selfish because then,
at the end of the day, that'snot, that's one piece of that
like end person's decisionthat's gonna make right, and the
reality of it is is like whenyou care about someone and then
(20:51):
you hear out like I say, kariand I always come to like the
table, proverbial table or, youknow, island, whatever like, and
I wanna know every single partof like why she's resistant to
something.
Moving here is a great example,you know.
Granted, she didn't have greatanswers, like you know.
She'd like.
I think she was like well, howwe lived in DC before we moved
(21:15):
up here and she's like well, howare we gonna grocery shop?
She's like well, I can justwalk to the grocery store now
and you can.
You know, kari, so you can seeher saying this and I'm just
like do you have anything elsefor me?
Like, do you have anything elsefor me?
But right, essentially, despitehow much I wanted to move and
how much she didn't wanna move,that's why it took us five years
and 50 extra thousand dollars.
(21:36):
Thank you, kari.
Thank you, kari.
The gift that Kari keeps ongiving was because I did not
want her to compromise.
I wanted us to get to thehighest level we could get to
together.
So what, it didn't take waylonger than I would like it to
have to do with TKIN.
But reality of it is is becauseI didn't want, like and she's
(21:56):
like, well, you compromise sothat we stayed in DC longer for
me to do this.
I was like, no, I really didn't.
I didn't compromise.
We could not get to the highestlevel together, so it didn't
make sense to make a move, rightright.
And a lot of people are likewell, like, marriage is
compromise and you can't alwaysget what you want Absolutely.
But I take it out of this ideaof compromise and start finding
(22:18):
a way to get to your marriage tothe highest possible level in
every single small decision,from pizza and chicken to moving
.
Because when you do that, thenthere's no leftover resentment,
there's no compromise currency.
Think about it you know, yourspouse moves across the country
for you because you've got a joband you're thriving in that job
and everything else.
And then your spouse gets a jobin Africa and now it's like
(22:41):
okay, are you gonna pay back onthat?
That's not real.
Like, again, like, and then youthen create a situation that's
like you're not on each other'steam, and so that's why I really
need to talk about it becausewe don't do it well yeah it's
our end.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
It all boils down to communication and actually
saying what you need, sayingwhat you want, and then going
from there with the other person, like there's your timeline,
your spouse's timeline and thenthe timeline you need to create
together.
And, like you, think of it asthree people, I think of it as
three roads.
Right, it's like this road,this road and then this road
that we need to take together.
(23:16):
And I think that's important toview it that way, because if
you view it as like me, me, me,that's what you're gonna wind up
with, that's you're gonna be byyourself.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Quite literally.
And again it's.
You know what Love is notenough in marriage, Love isn't
enough anywhere.
Love isn't emotional.
No, you know what I mean and Ithink too.
It's just like I really wish wewould stop measuring intimacy
based on your sex life, becausethat is such a superficial level
of intimacy True intimacy isfound in your communication,
(23:51):
Like that's what elevates yoursex, Like this very physical
thing, Like intimacy again isbased on a connection.
Sex is physical.
Your marriage is not good orbad or in danger based on the
number of times a week you arehaving sex.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
And, to be quite honest, you would probably have
it more the better communicationyou had.
Like, like I am a person that Idon't like to ask for help.
I've, I wasn't raised that way.
I was ready to do it on yourown, whatever.
But like this week I just therewas things like I didn't feel
like going to the store to getthe Valentine's Day cards.
I tried doing a pickup orderand they canceled the whole
thing and like, oh, I have to goto the store.
I ran out of diapers.
(24:28):
Yeah, like I ran out of diapersfor Owen.
There were so many things thatI just did not feel like going
to the store and I asked Mike todo it and literally he was like
you know problem, like I'll doit.
And a couple of years ago hemight be like, oh, I got all
this stuff to do and like, belike, yeah, I'll do it.
But like begrudgingly, I'mtelling you, like that man gets,
gets it.
Be like he.
(24:49):
Like I was more likely to belike when are you going to be
home?
I'm going to make sure I'mawake.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
You brought the diapers home, let's go.
And so again like, and alsowhen, when you start to really
shift from like marriage beingthis idealic thing and more of
like a partnership in which,like you know, not 50, 50, it's
never going to be 50, 50.
No, that's the number of likeyou know and pulse on each other
(25:18):
Like I know, when Carrie canonly give 10% I'm not, I love it
, right, I'm, or like I might,whatever have you, but like I
know about, about it.
And it is always so much easierwhen we have communicated and
she actually tells me what's onher mind, rather than I asked
her to do something and shegives me a shitty first response
and then I want to rip her faceoff because, as a human, the
(25:41):
first thing I think of iseverything I do and I'm like all
you quite literally do is go towork.
That's like your.
Your responsibility is just togo to work, but like, again,
that that anger doesn't get meanywhere, like anywhere closer
to that.
And.
But then the second she likelets me in a little bit to being
like you know, I'm feelinginsecure about this or whatever
it is.
(26:01):
All of a sudden, my, mycapacity to handle more
increases so much because, likeshe's the number one, I want to
take care of her and I alwayswant her to be okay, because I
feel like she does that for me.
But without that ability tocommunicate and like be on that
same wavelength with her, it'sjust like we're against each
other.
F you, I'm so over your shit.
(26:23):
I'm therapy and get out of myface, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah, oh, my God, 100%.
I can't even tell you like howmany times.
And literally the only timeMike and I really fight is when
our communication is off.
Oh and yeah, like, and thenthat's what it like really boils
down to, because when yourcommunication is off, like
you're just, you're like on twodifferent islands, I swear.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Speaking different languages from those islands and
one of you might be faxing andthe other one telegram, but I
don't-.
Yeah for real.
So I'm curious to know how youguys get on the same page and
then I'll I want to share beforewe go, just kind of like one of
my tools or like what I'veinstituted in my marriage to
kind of help us, cause I thinkdate night every night also has
(27:08):
like a lot of like expectationsand things of that nature and
while it can be fun.
I don't often think it like getsat this core root of
communication and like that's.
I think what every relationshipneeds is that time to
communicate.
And also, to me it's like ifyou're working on that
communication and you guys can'tget to that, like if you're
actually working oncommunication, keeping it the
focus, and it's not working,then you have like a really
(27:31):
clear, concrete way of being,like this is not a good match,
because we can't find a way,like whether it be your trauma
or your triggers, whatever tocommunicate.
If you can't work through that,then it's like time to get a
third party in there that's notbiased, so that you guys can
either work on thatcommunication.
That's why, in my opinion,couples therapy works.
It's not because I do anythingmagical in there, it's quite
literally just a third personjust throw everything down so
(27:54):
you don't get caught in oldcommunication patterns.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, and I will say for us to answer your question,
we've been married.
It'll be 12 years this summerand I will say Mike and I are
very different people.
He's more reserved thinks aboutthings I would say more
impulsive, more outgoing, more Imean, like you know, it's good,
it's like we're ying and yang,but a lot of our coming together
(28:19):
really took me kind of taking astep back and analyzing like
things about myself that I'vereally needed to work on, and
you know he had to do the samething.
But I think I expect a lot.
I expect a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I'm not someone that really like I sometimes feel
like my way or the highway, likeyou're very direct too, I would
say, was like one of the thingsthat in our relationship
together, like that you had, Ifelt like you did a really good
job.
Adjusting too was realizingthat like you had to be a little
softer you know what I meanLike your direct thing was
(28:57):
directly hitting a trigger ofmine like you, being so direct
was directly hitting a triggerof mine.
That was like I couldn't everhear what you were saying
sometimes.
Like you were like some of our.
I was like calling me andyou're like no, we're going to
finish this and I'm like not, ifyou keep attacking me like this
, like I'm not attacking you,I'm just telling you I'm like
this isn't going to work.
I was like I'm like all of thephones like why is she?
(29:17):
She won't stop, which I thinkis a great like right, and I
know you bring that to yourmarriage too, but I also I'm not
saying Mike needs like a littlesofter side of you, but I do
think right, like that, I knowfor our like you know you had to
adapt there.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, there was.
There's a level of, I would say, empathy that I needed to like
acquire, and that's hard.
It's hard to take a step backand look at yourself.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I just have a new perspective.
You know what I mean.
Like you have to try to explainthe other person and whatever
they did or whatever have you,rather than to step back and I
think to your point earlierabout like why marriages don't
work.
It's like most people don'twant to take that step back and
say like, oh shit, I have a lotof healing to do to be the best
version of myself before I caneven sit here and start to braid
(30:08):
you about how to be the bestversion for me right.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Yeah, it's hard.
I remember, like I don't know,we were probably married for
like five or six years and Ican't remember exactly what it
was, but we were fighting a lotand I'm like I took a step back
and I'm like, okay, like what isthe common denominator?
Like why do we keep fighting?
I just don't understand.
And it really took work onmyself and work on me to like I
wouldn't say lower myexpectations, but like not give,
(30:35):
like you can't have unrealisticexpectations for your partner
also, like of course you wantyour partner to exceed your
expectations, but like givingthem something unrealistic and
unattainable and then gettingmad at them for it, that's not
gonna work either.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It's like going in love with the potential.
You know what I mean.
Like you can't want right.
Like I want Mike to get hisdoctrine to, like you know, in
the next three years, orwhatever have you like, and you
are so hung up on that.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
But, again.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
It's just like it's falling in love with potential
and it's also.
I think expectations are alsopart of our childhood.
They're part of right.
There are inner kind ofnarrative right.
Like, why do you hold such highexpectations for yourself?
I bet you there's like a reasonin there that has to do with
something you've been throughthat shows that, and also most
(31:23):
people I mean one of, for me,hidden expectations not gonna
work right.
Not like I need my expectationsto be right out here.
I always meet your expectations.
I need to know them, but mostpeople don't take the time to
know what they treat with thatand then communicate them right,
Like so.
Did Mike even know what yourexpectations were, Nevermind if
they were too high or not, butdid?
(31:43):
He know how high they, you knowRight and that was.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
That's part of the problem.
So I would say, and like he wasalways a really good
communicator, and like we alsolike handled we still do handle
arguments very differently, butlike, whereas, like he needs it
solved right then and there, andlike I can say that it's solved
, but like I don't wanna hug andkiss you afterwards, I need
like a good, like I need tosimmer, because I still like I
(32:06):
love you and like we fixed it,but I still wanna punch you in
the throat.
So like I need and I wonder toolike A second.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
I'd wonder, like I know for me too in my family,
right, we'd have these bigexplosions and then the next
minute we would be like as ifnothing happened, and so it took
me a really long time torealize like that was not normal
fighting, like that is notnormal to have those explosions,
and I feel like culturally,like I could see them being like
very loud and getting into it,and then the next minute, kind
of adjusting back to you knowand like again, it's interesting
(32:35):
, right, two people fromcompletely different backgrounds
come together and then like,build this life together with so
much baggage that you have towork through, you have to
acknowledge, right, like, do youwant to have the exact same
marriage as your parents?
Do you over-idolize that?
Or you know, sometimes youdon't even see, like oh wow, my
parents are really codependent.
Like I don't want that reallyfor my relationship.
Or you know the opposite, youwant to be so different from
(32:57):
your parents that you bring thatto your.
It's so like, I guess, like inlayered and complex, and that's
why it's so much work, becauseit's not just work on the
marriage, it's or the family, orthe this, or the happily ever
after.
It's.
You know, really just thebeginning, in my opinion, of
like finding yourself when youget into a relationship.
You know, I've noticed so manytimes work and your biggest
(33:20):
traumas are revealed in arelationship.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Right.
So, like you definitely have to,you have to work on yourself
and you have to work on yourselfwith each other.
You have to be, you have tocommunicate, you have to like be
very honest about what you want, even if you feel like it's
gonna hurt your partner, likeyou can't.
You have to be honest about it.
And I think once, like Istarted doing that it allowed
Mike to really take a step backand be like okay, like maybe
(33:46):
these are my shortcomings inwhat, like she is needing or
expecting from me, and it reallydid like turn a corner for us.
And when you have a strongcommunication, like with each
other, when you add outsidefactors like children or job
changes or money issues or, youknow, death and family or like
(34:06):
all these other factors thatlike can really stress a
marriage, if you're strong atyour core with communication and
stuff like that, like thoseoutside factors, you're gonna
get through them together andyou know I think we're doing a
pretty good job.
I mean, I don't know he'llprobably irritate me later at
some point in time, but like I'mgonna keep him.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Exactly, you know, and I think too, also having
that like foundation and it tookme a really long time to get
this through to Kerry's head islike I'm gonna hate you probably
96% of the time.
Or you know, really just likeyou're gonna get under my nerve.
I mean, what roommate reallydoesn't, in a sense, right?
But like I need you to hear mewhen I say like I'm not going
(34:47):
anywhere, like we're in this,like you know and I promise to
let you know, like, yeah,there's ever a time in which,
like it has gotten to a levelwhere I was like I'm gonna
communicate, like you're notgonna be blindsided.
Every fight is not the fightthat will end us and that made
it so that we had such a bettercapacity to fight and truly,
like you know, or like sniff ateach other and no, like there's
(35:09):
no fundamental damage being doneto that.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Yeah, like you felt a safe space when you could
really say what you need to sayat the time, because at the end
of the day, you know like it'snot Going to crush your guys
marriage it's got, you guys aregonna be fine you just have, you
have to have a space in orderto get out your truths.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Exactly and figure out a way to make those truths
work together.
Before before we go, I do wantto share One tool that I have
found very helpful and and a lotof my couples have found very
helpful in terms of likecommunication.
Again, I think we reallyemphasize the date night and we
try to make it like big andspecial and that's great, you
know.
I think everybody should have a.
If your life is busy, you know,maybe once a month date nine,
(35:52):
schedule, what, and that'd bewhatever you want, but what you
can do weekly, every Wednesday,carrie and I block two hours.
She gets home at like 5 30 andwe block from 5 30 to 7 30 when
we have like wine down we callit used to be a lot more wine
than there is now.
Oh, I like that.
But essentially it is our timeto tell each other what's really
(36:13):
happening in our lives, go overwork, because sometimes you
know by the time she gets homedone with coaching and stuff,
like it's late and I don't wantto tell her about something that
happened at 7 am In the morningand she works in a school.
So I'm right, we're all daylong.
We don't like, you know, likeit's not like this whole
back-and-forth communication.
Or sometimes she sends me thislong text about something that
happens, but I don't have it inme to like go over it and we
(36:34):
never get to connect.
So this is the time where it'slike we might play a board game,
we might do something like that, but it's sacred time.
I mean, not everyone can do 5,7, but it is on our calendars.
It's like it's called wine down, it's the expectation.
We don't go to a bar, we don't.
We literally come to ourkitchen island, we get a drink
and we're like, all right, spillit.
What's going on?
And again, we're not.
(36:54):
This is that school wait totell each other like what's what
we hate about each other forthat time, or anything, it's
more so.
Just a time to like connect onall the things that I feel like
gets missed in the hustle andbustle of a man Right like, or a
hustle bustle of likecarelessness, and you know, a
day goes so fast and it's justlike protected sacred time where
we are just gonna like againconnect, laugh, oh my god, did
(37:17):
you see this reel?
Or whatever, like yeah, and soit's been really, really great
for us to like have thatconsistently.
And again it's like you don'tinvite anyone.
It's no one's over for dinner,it's not around dinner, so
nobody has the pressure of, likeyou know, planning or getting
it done.
You can just kind of come, andI think adopting some version of
(37:37):
that couldn't be a very healthytool For anyone out there
listening who's trying to belike how can I improve
specifically on ourcommunication?
That's not like when it's indanger.
Right, it's, this is a therapy,or you?
Know, it's.
It's kind of like a maintenanceto that communication, I guess I
like that, I might have tostart implementing that.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
You're welcome, mike.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
We'll be back next week for another episode of your
always fine.
Until then, mind your health.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Seriously, you're fine.
You're fine because you havethe power to access your place
of peace anytime you need it.
However, if you get stuck orright at the palm of your hand
to help Check out our show notesfor this week's source list,
recommended content and cabanalive group schedule, we'll catch
you next week for a brand newepisode of you're always fine.
Welcome back to You're Always Fine a space to
show up for yourself and embracethe mess that lives underneath.
Because, let's be real, it'sexhausting always being fine.
So grab your headphones andallow yourself to listen, laugh
and even cry, because you're notalone and we aren't always fine
, and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hey Beeps, I'm your host, Christine, and I'm Teresa.
All right, TC, I would like totell you a little story today.
Okay, so, once upon a timethere was this girl and she was
okay.
You know she had someself-esteem issues, you know she
had some family stuff going on.
(00:44):
But she then met, you know, herPrince Charming, and he came
and he swept her off her feetand gave her confidence and he
proposed and everyone was like,you know, they faced a little
adversity there.
They got married and they livedhappily ever after.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
There's a fairy tale we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yes, this is a classic fairy tale story, and
the reason I'm bringing it up isbecause I think that from a
very young age, that's kind ofwhat we're taught about marriage
and or like relationships.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Oh, yeah, that's like what all the Disney movies.
Yeah, it's like what all theDisney movies were.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Right, someone's gonna come to save you.
And then you know happily andend they lived happily ever
after.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Someone lied to us.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, lies, liars.
What dream are they selling us?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
No, that sounds horrible.
It sounds horrible butseriously, like I'm not even
getting into yet around, likewhat is modeled in your
household and marriage and likethat effect on you know
relationships and marriage, butjust like, just fundamentally it
feels off right when you startthinking about it.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, I feel like you sell that to people and that's
why people don't last, becausethat's what they expect, and it
isn't like that.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So, if you haven't guessed, today we are getting
into marriage and the incredibleamount of work it takes to keep
a marriage alive.
Of course, every relationship.
What specifically, today we'rediving into marriage?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yes, we are, let's go .
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Let's do it All right , so happily ever after the best
day of your life, right?
I just I remember thinking thisone.
I got married.
It was, it was one of the bestdays.
But man, talk about a pooroutlook or like a dreary outlook
when you think about, like, ifthat was the best day of my
(02:47):
marriage, yeah, that's kind ofright, like I don't know, don't
you think that?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, I think that mentality I don't know, not
showing the hard parts ofmarriage, not like being
realistic, I don't know.
To me it's not realistic.
Like sometimes you see onInstagram and Facebook and look,
I love my husband, I love him,but like if you don't want to
kill your person every once in awhile, I just don't think your
relationship is real.
Like I just don't think it'sreal.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Well and also right.
I think so many things rightAlso.
No marriage is gonna save you.
You have to save yourself.
The crazy part is the personthat I was back in 2017 when I
got married is nowhere new.
The person I am today, oh yeah,major difference.
But yeah, your thing that iskind of crazy when you think
about like you are expected to,like right To have and to hold,
(03:39):
and sickness and health and allthose things.
But I'm not sure Kerry wouldhave chosen this version of me
and like there's been timeswhere I'm like I wouldn't have
chose this version of you.
Yeah, I'm not going anywhere,but like I can tell you like
this era of your life, like Iwouldn't have looked twice, kind
of thing.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah, Well, I think that's why it's.
I think that's why people giveup, because you're sold like
this idea that everything'sperfect, you guys are gonna be
exactly who you are, and then,like 10 years later, that's just
not even possible.
Like, if you just look at yourown life, right, like before
marriage, I am not when I was 16and then 26.
(04:20):
Like I mean I was married bythat point, but like I was not
the same, I'm not the sameperson, thank God.
Like if I was the same person Iwas when I was 16, like it just
wouldn't.
I don't even know if I'd bealive.
Like you know, like there's justa lot of growth that you make
and that's why it's reallyimportant to like have a
realistic view of marriage andgo into it with, like the idea
(04:42):
that, okay, the core values ofmy person I really, really love.
Like I know they're gonnachange, I know we're gonna grow,
hopefully we can do thattogether, but like to go in it
with this idea that you're nevergonna argue, you're never gonna
fight, you guys aren't gonnachange in some ways.
That may be difficult for theother person, it's just not
realistic and I think that's whypeople quit and give up and
(05:04):
don't fight for each other.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And you know, I think it's so interesting because
I've always said that I thinkthat marriages don't break down
because there's a lack of love.
I firmly believe that marriagesbreak down because there's a
lack of communication.
Or, you know, we start tosomehow get off right, Like off
(05:29):
the same page, or you.
A way that used to work tocommunicate no longer works.
So, I'm not sure if youexperienced this when you know.
You guys were faced likeeverything was Owen was
happening and oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Well, when you throw kids into the mix also, it's
like another complicated, likelayer, because you're used to
going from just each other and,like you know, coming home from
work, whatever you are eachother the honeymoon phase, yeah,
like the honeymoon phase, likeit's just you guys and then you
bring kids into it and it's likeyou automatically see less of
(06:07):
each other or just the qualitytime is different, and it's an
adjustment.
And I think it's definitelyadjustment in terms of like men
do the best that they can tounderstand it, but like when
you're a mom and you have yourchildren, like they just kind of
take a front seat, especiallyin the beginning, because they
can't fend for themselves, andthat's an adjustment.
(06:29):
Like I know that that wasdifficult for Mike and I it was,
it was hard.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Well, so right, it's hard.
And then I think that whathappens there is like the way
you guys used to communicate orshow love then changes, and then
that gap just kind of keepsgrowing.
I mean.
Terry and I saw that happen tous when I got sick.
You know she has always been abig supporter, but everything
like she would say what it didthat used to maybe be fine, such
(06:56):
as like I love, I miss when youcook for me.
I miss doing this for me.
I took that as a completeslight against me.
She was trying to expresssomething which is like
something she missed, that thisdisease took away from her.
But all I felt was guilt andthen there was never been an
anger towards her from that.
And so, like, all I did waslike widen this gap and it took
quite literally us Like.
(07:17):
I remember, like we wrote anentire workbook essentially
about how to reconnect afterlike tragedy or something
happens, because you know againa different era, you're
different people and like, whatused to work doesn't work and
you have to just like anythingright, you have to figure out
what you're going to do aboutthat.
And I think sometimes we getcomfortable in marriage and we
(07:39):
just like, are like, definitelywe don't put that effort in.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah, and in terms of like, let's even talk about
like, love languages and stufflike that.
Those also.
I know, I know those also canchange.
Like like okay, mike's lovelanguage has always been like
physical affection, like that'sjust how he is, and I used to be
like that.
(08:03):
But now I have kids and they'retouching me all the time.
So I'm like about a time hegets home from work I'm like
just don't touch me.
But for me it's become becausethere's more on my plate,
there's more to do with the kids.
For me it's like acts ofservice, like if I see you doing
the dishes, if I see yousweeping the floor, if I see you
(08:26):
loading the laundry, okay,without you having to ask yeah.
Like let's okay, we're good,let's go.
You know what I mean.
So you also have to understandthat that can change and there's
factors that cause that.
And that was a little hard forhim.
He was like I don't understandand it's funny, he'll do the
(08:48):
walking by butt slap.
And I have a love-heyrelationship with that.
Sometimes I like it, sometimesI don't.
So, like you have to justfigure out, like along the way,
like what is changing, and justlike adapt.
But a lot of people don't wannado that because it's work.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Exactly it's work.
Now, you know I wasn't gonna gohere because I know I have a
very strong hot take on lovelanguages and so, but here, but
we have arrived.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
So I will We've arrived.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I hate the love languages.
But before everyone comes to mein the comments and everything
else, please hear me out.
I hate the love languagesmostly because I think that it
was a great tool that was likegiven for relationships to get
people to understand better.
However, one let's not get intothe fact there's not that much
empirical evidence around likethe substantial thing.
(09:41):
But also I think it then hasbecome a little bit more like
you can only have one of thefive and the reality of it is
it's so many more than five lovelanguages.
And also I don't think it doesa great job of helping you to
understand that most of the timeyou give what you would like to
receive and I don't think itdoes enough to like walk people
(10:05):
through, to get them like.
People use it as this great tooland I think it falls short and
it doesn't like serve peopleenough, you know, and so that's
my issue with it.
So it's not really like the idor what it's trying to do.
I just think it becomes over.
It's an overgeneralization, asI guess most theories are.
But if you don't write, likeyou said, acts of service, right
(10:25):
, acts of service are great, butmost people don't want that act
of service after they have toask for it, right?
Correct.
And then it gets into though thefact of like one of the biggest
things I see I've seen in myown marriage.
I have to constantly stopmyself and I see it in all the
couples I do.
We are under the assumptionthat if you love me, you would
(10:49):
just do this and if you careabout me you would stop doing
this and like that's mindreading.
That is games.
That is so incredibly toxic foryour relationship or marriage
to do that.
You know you just brought it upwith the butt slaps A great
example, right.
So you've just said thatsometimes you like it and
sometimes you don't.
(11:10):
So if you were to say, if youlove me, you stop doing that,
Right, and I kind of love tothat, See about how crazy that
would be.
But sometimes he's allowed todo it and that can like benefit
him.
But right, it's confusing andthere and nobody's gonna be able
to do it.
It's very confusing.
Every single second of everysingle day, when you're also
constantly changing Right.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, and like that scenario, like we've him and I
have talked about that beforebecause he's like I like it's
like the notebook scene what doyou want, what do you want?
So we talked about that and Iwas like I have to do a better
job at communicating with himand he has to do a better job of
, like, assessing the situation.
You know, like, like be alittle bit more cognizant of
(11:56):
what is happening around.
Like I would just like you,like I know you love me, I would
like you to just think about,like okay, right now she's got
two kids wrapped around herankles, she is loading the
dishwasher.
She looks stressed.
Will this butt slap be wellreceived, like you know?
So that, I think, is a way oflike I need to communicate
(12:19):
better and he also needs to kindof like assess the situation
and I think, when you do it thatway, rather than saying if you
love me, you'll do this, likeit's just an easier way to grow
and an easier way to positivelyfeed off of each other.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
One to your point.
Right there too, I think thatin most households, right
whether you have children or not, there becomes a like default
either adult or default parent.
And I think a lot of times weenable that behavior right, like
I have enabled it so that mywife literally gets a piece of
paper.
It could be like you're thegreatest ever and she'd be like,
(12:55):
oh, that's adult paperwork, andshe'll hand it right to me.
I'm like, did you read thepaper?
Like, did you like this?
And so right, I think, too,it's so important to realize
that, like, if you do not, ifyou never show your spouse like
that is stressful to have twokids around you, or like what
you do is stressful, and you areconstantly just kind of like
(13:16):
creating this idealic situationfor, like the family unit, well
then, how would he ever knowwhen they're like to even ask
for that environmental cueyou're talking about?
Because, like, he just thinksthat you've got it, you're a
superhero.
It's kind of like what we do toour parents, where it's like, oh
my God, our parents haveemotions, like I thought they
were just, like you know,invincible, and that's what
(13:38):
happens.
Like that, I think we've gotdefault parent as well.
But I want to say this againlike it is not your spouse's job
to play Miss Cleo, you knowit's like it's your job to
manage your emotions, it's yourjob to communicate what you need
in the moment and, on top ofthat, what you really need or
want in the moment, like I thinkanother great example is like
(13:58):
when people like they have aboys night and you try, you want
to be the coolest spouse, right, but you know he's had a boys
night.
Or you know, if you're my wife,you know a daddy daughter night
, you know hanging out withoutme, like for four nights.
And when they're like, hey, doyou mind?
It's like you want to be thecoolest spouse or you like you
just you sometimes say yes,cause you just want to be left
(14:19):
alone, kind of thing.
But then it happens, it happensand you don't say that like
it's hit a limit, or you don'tsay that like I feel lonely or
whatever, like that's not fair,that puts them in a trap.
You know what I mean and I think, like, especially with friends
in really like dips, like that'sreally hard Because, again, you
don't want to, we don't want tobe controlling, we don't want
(14:40):
to.
You know, do this.
But if you're not expressingyour needs or your wants, your
partner has no shot, no shot atall.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
No shot.
And then you wind up like Ifeel like Mike is kind of like
that, like I'm very like no,like this is what I want, this
is what I don't want, and hekind of in the beginning, like
middle of our marriage, wouldcompromise, Like when he would
really actually want to be doingsomething else, and like we,
then he would be like really notthat happy or like aggravated
(15:08):
while we're doing whatever wedecided, and I'm like what's
your problem?
Like.
And then I find out like ohwell, I would have rather have
done this, but I decided to dothis for you.
I'm like, no like.
I would rather you say what youwant and let's do it together.
It's like.
It's like that same weird thingthat, like Mike and I got a
(15:28):
huge argument for when I waspregnant during Christmas,
because we decided, like we'rehaving a baby, let's save money,
we're not gonna do Christmasgifts.
Okay, like we had a wholeconversation about it.
We're not gonna do Christmasgifts, we are not doing
stockings, we are doing quiteliterally nothing, okay.
So when I say that we're doingnothing, like we were very clear
(15:50):
, okay, and his whole family iscoming over for Christmas day to
open gifts and stuff I alreadyand all of a sudden, oh my God,
all of a sudden, he's likemissing on Christmas Eve because
he's like a last minute shopper.
And I'm like, I call him, I'mlike where are you and what are
you doing?
Oh, I'm, you know, just gettingsome last minute things.
(16:10):
And I was like, please tell methat you are not getting me
Christmas gifts, like.
And he was like well, you know.
And I was like, no, I don'tknow, because I got you nothing,
like I quite literally got younothing, because we said we were
doing nothing.
Not a card, not a card, likenothing, nothing.
So I was freaking out.
I was like now I'm going tolook like an asshole in front of
(16:31):
your family because there's nogift Like I was like pretty.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I mean, I know you've known Mike's family for a while
, but, right, you add factors,right, like exactly what you're
saying.
Like now you're worried noteven about what you said to Mike
, you're worried about what itlooks like to everyone Because,
again, marriage is also thisweird game of like everyone has
a judgment on it, right Likeit's like you're nasty, oh,
you're so mean to your spouse,or like they don't have any
(16:55):
backstory or anyone ever.
No one will care that, like youguys said this and he just
decided not to listen.
All the what my poor Filipinoson who did not get to yes, get
any gifts from his horrible wife, I know.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
And I'm like pregnant as hell.
I'm like dude, and he's like Ican't believe you're mad at me.
I'm just trying to give you agood Christmas.
I'm like Mike we talked aboutthis Like wait, and he's like,
well, you know, girls do thatthing.
I'm like I don't know who youthink I am.
You have known me since I was14.
Like there is no mind gameswith me.
I'm like I don't have a giftfor you.
You're getting nothing.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Like- and I'm gonna have to handle.
Thank God you have a reallyawesome mother-in-law Like, who
was probably like I'm gonna gethim nothing but-.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Like so yeah, whoever in the past, whoever maybe
before you, I mean.
Granted, you guys were 14.
So I don't know what damagelike happened, but in middle
school, but potentially right,there's some sort of unwritten
rule where it's like if I saythat it's good and somebody else
either gets in my head or belike oh bro, like you know, she
says it's good, but you betterhave something for her for
Christmas, like Right, thatwould like way more than like
(17:59):
whatever conversation youmutually had.
So, again, like other outsidefactors, outside of like what we
communicated, and trusting that, when we come to the table, I'm
bringing my honest emotions andyou're bringing your honest
emotions and we're getting tothe highest possible level we
can get to together for ourmarriage.
Right, you're talking justabout compromise and I actually
(18:20):
have a very strong.
People say marriage iscompromise and I say BS,
bullshit.
I'm calling bullshit onmarriage being compromised.
Again, before you kill me, hearme out.
I believe that compromise endsup being currency.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
And I like that.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I think it becomes very dangerous.
So when it's like a tip for tat, exactly, but hear me out.
So, because what usuallyhappens is compromise One person
can compromise about pizza orChinese.
I wanted Chinese, but youwanted pizza, so I didn't care
as much, so I just let you havethe pizza.
And then I do that, let's saylike several times, with small
(18:59):
things like that.
And then we're about to decideI got this new job and I want to
move across the country and youdon't.
And now we come to the table todiscuss this like big life
thing, and you come here and youempty out your pockets of all
your compromise currency and saylike I'm always doing this for
you, I'm always, you know,compromising this and that.
And now, right, you're tryingto cash in and say like no, that
(19:22):
doesn't happen.
And it does happen.
And so what I like to say andlike what I really have to
actively work hard in mymarriage is, like you, me and
our marriage, there are threepeople in a marriage.
Our marriage is one person andfor me it's easier to think
about it that way, but like it'sTerry's wants, christine's
wants and then the highestpossible place we can get our
marriage that they're.
(19:44):
I don't feel like I'mcompromising and you don't like
no one feels like they're givinganything up.
It's just like the highestlevel together that we can get,
not the highest levelindividually, the highest level
together.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
And I think but that's what's so important,
because that's not how culturetoday embrace it Like.
First of all, I don't reallyfeel like culture embraces
marriage at all, but I feel likethat's not how marriage is
looked at today.
It's very like you oriented,and I do think that's why people
don't stay together.
I do think that's why peoplefail, because they have this
(20:17):
idea that, like me, me, me, me,me, me, me, and it doesn't work
that way.
And, like you said, if youcompromise too much, you're
gonna get resentful, you'regonna get, you know like there
should be a third option.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
There's what you want , your spouse wants, and then
what you want together Exactlyand you're married and, like I
said, for me I like thinking ofit as a completely separate
person, because then I'm allowedto have, I can come to the
table and feel so and be soincredibly selfish because then,
at the end of the day, that'snot, that's one piece of that
like end person's decisionthat's gonna make right, and the
reality of it is is like whenyou care about someone and then
(20:51):
you hear out like I say, kariand I always come to like the
table, proverbial table or, youknow, island, whatever like, and
I wanna know every single partof like why she's resistant to
something.
Moving here is a great example,you know.
Granted, she didn't have greatanswers, like you know.
She'd like.
I think she was like well, howwe lived in DC before we moved
(21:15):
up here and she's like well, howare we gonna grocery shop?
She's like well, I can justwalk to the grocery store now
and you can.
You know, kari, so you can seeher saying this and I'm just
like do you have anything elsefor me?
Like, do you have anything elsefor me?
But right, essentially, despitehow much I wanted to move and
how much she didn't wanna move,that's why it took us five years
and 50 extra thousand dollars.
(21:36):
Thank you, kari.
Thank you, kari.
The gift that Kari keeps ongiving was because I did not
want her to compromise.
I wanted us to get to thehighest level we could get to
together.
So what, it didn't take waylonger than I would like it to
have to do with TKIN.
But reality of it is is becauseI didn't want, like and she's
(21:56):
like, well, you compromise sothat we stayed in DC longer for
me to do this.
I was like, no, I really didn't.
I didn't compromise.
We could not get to the highestlevel together, so it didn't
make sense to make a move, rightright.
And a lot of people are likewell, like, marriage is
compromise and you can't alwaysget what you want Absolutely.
But I take it out of this ideaof compromise and start finding
(22:18):
a way to get to your marriage tothe highest possible level in
every single small decision,from pizza and chicken to moving
.
Because when you do that, thenthere's no leftover resentment,
there's no compromise currency.
Think about it you know, yourspouse moves across the country
for you because you've got a joband you're thriving in that job
and everything else.
And then your spouse gets a jobin Africa and now it's like
(22:41):
okay, are you gonna pay back onthat?
That's not real.
Like, again, like, and then youthen create a situation that's
like you're not on each other'steam, and so that's why I really
need to talk about it becausewe don't do it well yeah it's
our end.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
It all boils down to communication and actually
saying what you need, sayingwhat you want, and then going
from there with the other person, like there's your timeline,
your spouse's timeline and thenthe timeline you need to create
together.
And, like you, think of it asthree people, I think of it as
three roads.
Right, it's like this road,this road and then this road
that we need to take together.
(23:16):
And I think that's important toview it that way, because if
you view it as like me, me, me,that's what you're gonna wind up
with, that's you're gonna be byyourself.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Quite literally.
And again it's.
You know what Love is notenough in marriage, Love isn't
enough anywhere.
Love isn't emotional.
No, you know what I mean and Ithink too.
It's just like I really wish wewould stop measuring intimacy
based on your sex life, becausethat is such a superficial level
of intimacy True intimacy isfound in your communication,
(23:51):
Like that's what elevates yoursex, Like this very physical
thing, Like intimacy again isbased on a connection.
Sex is physical.
Your marriage is not good orbad or in danger based on the
number of times a week you arehaving sex.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
And, to be quite honest, you would probably have
it more the better communicationyou had.
Like, like I am a person that Idon't like to ask for help.
I've, I wasn't raised that way.
I was ready to do it on yourown, whatever.
But like this week I just therewas things like I didn't feel
like going to the store to getthe Valentine's Day cards.
I tried doing a pickup orderand they canceled the whole
thing and like, oh, I have to goto the store.
I ran out of diapers.
(24:28):
Yeah, like I ran out of diapersfor Owen.
There were so many things thatI just did not feel like going
to the store and I asked Mike todo it and literally he was like
you know problem, like I'll doit.
And a couple of years ago hemight be like, oh, I got all
this stuff to do and like, belike, yeah, I'll do it.
But like begrudgingly, I'mtelling you, like that man gets,
gets it.
Be like he.
(24:49):
Like I was more likely to belike when are you going to be
home?
I'm going to make sure I'mawake.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
You brought the diapers home, let's go.
And so again like, and alsowhen, when you start to really
shift from like marriage beingthis idealic thing and more of
like a partnership in which,like you know, not 50, 50, it's
never going to be 50, 50.
No, that's the number of likeyou know and pulse on each other
(25:18):
Like I know, when Carrie canonly give 10% I'm not, I love it
, right, I'm, or like I might,whatever have you, but like I
know about, about it.
And it is always so much easierwhen we have communicated and
she actually tells me what's onher mind, rather than I asked
her to do something and shegives me a shitty first response
and then I want to rip her faceoff because, as a human, the
(25:41):
first thing I think of iseverything I do and I'm like all
you quite literally do is go towork.
That's like your.
Your responsibility is just togo to work, but like, again,
that that anger doesn't get meanywhere, like anywhere closer
to that.
And.
But then the second she likelets me in a little bit to being
like you know, I'm feelinginsecure about this or whatever
it is.
(26:01):
All of a sudden, my, mycapacity to handle more
increases so much because, likeshe's the number one, I want to
take care of her and I alwayswant her to be okay, because I
feel like she does that for me.
But without that ability tocommunicate and like be on that
same wavelength with her, it'sjust like we're against each
other.
F you, I'm so over your shit.
(26:23):
I'm therapy and get out of myface, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah, oh, my God, 100%.
I can't even tell you like howmany times.
And literally the only timeMike and I really fight is when
our communication is off.
Oh and yeah, like, and thenthat's what it like really boils
down to, because when yourcommunication is off, like
you're just, you're like on twodifferent islands, I swear.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Speaking different languages from those islands and
one of you might be faxing andthe other one telegram, but I
don't-.
Yeah for real.
So I'm curious to know how youguys get on the same page and
then I'll I want to share beforewe go, just kind of like one of
my tools or like what I'veinstituted in my marriage to
kind of help us, cause I thinkdate night every night also has
(27:08):
like a lot of like expectationsand things of that nature and
while it can be fun.
I don't often think it like getsat this core root of
communication and like that's.
I think what every relationshipneeds is that time to
communicate.
And also, to me it's like ifyou're working on that
communication and you guys can'tget to that, like if you're
actually working oncommunication, keeping it the
focus, and it's not working,then you have like a really
(27:31):
clear, concrete way of being,like this is not a good match,
because we can't find a way,like whether it be your trauma
or your triggers, whatever tocommunicate.
If you can't work through that,then it's like time to get a
third party in there that's notbiased, so that you guys can
either work on thatcommunication.
That's why, in my opinion,couples therapy works.
It's not because I do anythingmagical in there, it's quite
literally just a third personjust throw everything down so
(27:54):
you don't get caught in oldcommunication patterns.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, and I will say for us to answer your question,
we've been married.
It'll be 12 years this summerand I will say Mike and I are
very different people.
He's more reserved thinks aboutthings I would say more
impulsive, more outgoing, more Imean, like you know, it's good,
it's like we're ying and yang,but a lot of our coming together
(28:19):
really took me kind of taking astep back and analyzing like
things about myself that I'vereally needed to work on, and
you know he had to do the samething.
But I think I expect a lot.
I expect a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I'm not someone that really like I sometimes feel
like my way or the highway, likeyou're very direct too, I would
say, was like one of the thingsthat in our relationship
together, like that you had, Ifelt like you did a really good
job.
Adjusting too was realizingthat like you had to be a little
softer you know what I meanLike your direct thing was
(28:57):
directly hitting a trigger ofmine like you, being so direct
was directly hitting a triggerof mine.
That was like I couldn't everhear what you were saying
sometimes.
Like you were like some of our.
I was like calling me andyou're like no, we're going to
finish this and I'm like not, ifyou keep attacking me like this
, like I'm not attacking you,I'm just telling you I'm like
this isn't going to work.
I was like I'm like all of thephones like why is she?
(29:17):
She won't stop, which I thinkis a great like right, and I
know you bring that to yourmarriage too, but I also I'm not
saying Mike needs like a littlesofter side of you, but I do
think right, like that, I knowfor our like you know you had to
adapt there.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, there was.
There's a level of, I would say, empathy that I needed to like
acquire, and that's hard.
It's hard to take a step backand look at yourself.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I just have a new perspective.
You know what I mean.
Like you have to try to explainthe other person and whatever
they did or whatever have you,rather than to step back and I
think to your point earlierabout like why marriages don't
work.
It's like most people don'twant to take that step back and
say like, oh shit, I have a lotof healing to do to be the best
version of myself before I caneven sit here and start to braid
(30:08):
you about how to be the bestversion for me right.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Yeah, it's hard.
I remember, like I don't know,we were probably married for
like five or six years and Ican't remember exactly what it
was, but we were fighting a lotand I'm like I took a step back
and I'm like, okay, like what isthe common denominator?
Like why do we keep fighting?
I just don't understand.
And it really took work onmyself and work on me to like I
wouldn't say lower myexpectations, but like not give,
(30:35):
like you can't have unrealisticexpectations for your partner
also, like of course you wantyour partner to exceed your
expectations, but like givingthem something unrealistic and
unattainable and then gettingmad at them for it, that's not
gonna work either.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It's like going in love with the potential.
You know what I mean.
Like you can't want right.
Like I want Mike to get hisdoctrine to, like you know, in
the next three years, orwhatever have you like, and you
are so hung up on that.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
But, again.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
It's just like it's falling in love with potential
and it's also.
I think expectations are alsopart of our childhood.
They're part of right.
There are inner kind ofnarrative right.
Like, why do you hold such highexpectations for yourself?
I bet you there's like a reasonin there that has to do with
something you've been throughthat shows that, and also most
(31:23):
people I mean one of, for me,hidden expectations not gonna
work right.
Not like I need my expectationsto be right out here.
I always meet your expectations.
I need to know them, but mostpeople don't take the time to
know what they treat with thatand then communicate them right,
Like so.
Did Mike even know what yourexpectations were, Nevermind if
they were too high or not, butdid?
(31:43):
He know how high they, you knowRight and that was.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
That's part of the problem.
So I would say, and like he wasalways a really good
communicator, and like we alsolike handled we still do handle
arguments very differently, butlike, whereas, like he needs it
solved right then and there, andlike I can say that it's solved
, but like I don't wanna hug andkiss you afterwards, I need
like a good, like I need tosimmer, because I still like I
(32:06):
love you and like we fixed it,but I still wanna punch you in
the throat.
So like I need and I wonder toolike A second.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
I'd wonder, like I know for me too in my family,
right, we'd have these bigexplosions and then the next
minute we would be like as ifnothing happened, and so it took
me a really long time torealize like that was not normal
fighting, like that is notnormal to have those explosions,
and I feel like culturally,like I could see them being like
very loud and getting into it,and then the next minute, kind
of adjusting back to you knowand like again, it's interesting
(32:35):
, right, two people fromcompletely different backgrounds
come together and then like,build this life together with so
much baggage that you have towork through, you have to
acknowledge, right, like, do youwant to have the exact same
marriage as your parents?
Do you over-idolize that?
Or you know, sometimes youdon't even see, like oh wow, my
parents are really codependent.
Like I don't want that reallyfor my relationship.
Or you know the opposite, youwant to be so different from
(32:57):
your parents that you bring thatto your.
It's so like, I guess, like inlayered and complex, and that's
why it's so much work, becauseit's not just work on the
marriage, it's or the family, orthe this, or the happily ever
after.
It's.
You know, really just thebeginning, in my opinion, of
like finding yourself when youget into a relationship.
You know, I've noticed so manytimes work and your biggest
(33:20):
traumas are revealed in arelationship.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Right.
So, like you definitely have to,you have to work on yourself
and you have to work on yourselfwith each other.
You have to be, you have tocommunicate, you have to like be
very honest about what you want, even if you feel like it's
gonna hurt your partner, likeyou can't.
You have to be honest about it.
And I think once, like Istarted doing that it allowed
Mike to really take a step backand be like okay, like maybe
(33:46):
these are my shortcomings inwhat, like she is needing or
expecting from me, and it reallydid like turn a corner for us.
And when you have a strongcommunication, like with each
other, when you add outsidefactors like children or job
changes or money issues or, youknow, death and family or like
(34:06):
all these other factors thatlike can really stress a
marriage, if you're strong atyour core with communication and
stuff like that, like thoseoutside factors, you're gonna
get through them together andyou know I think we're doing a
pretty good job.
I mean, I don't know he'llprobably irritate me later at
some point in time, but like I'mgonna keep him.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Exactly, you know, and I think too, also having
that like foundation and it tookme a really long time to get
this through to Kerry's head islike I'm gonna hate you probably
96% of the time.
Or you know, really just likeyou're gonna get under my nerve.
I mean, what roommate reallydoesn't, in a sense, right?
But like I need you to hear mewhen I say like I'm not going
(34:47):
anywhere, like we're in this,like you know and I promise to
let you know, like, yeah,there's ever a time in which,
like it has gotten to a levelwhere I was like I'm gonna
communicate, like you're notgonna be blindsided.
Every fight is not the fightthat will end us and that made
it so that we had such a bettercapacity to fight and truly,
like you know, or like sniff ateach other and no, like there's
(35:09):
no fundamental damage being doneto that.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Yeah, like you felt a safe space when you could
really say what you need to sayat the time, because at the end
of the day, you know like it'snot Going to crush your guys
marriage it's got, you guys aregonna be fine you just have, you
have to have a space in orderto get out your truths.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Exactly and figure out a way to make those truths
work together.
Before before we go, I do wantto share One tool that I have
found very helpful and and a lotof my couples have found very
helpful in terms of likecommunication.
Again, I think we reallyemphasize the date night and we
try to make it like big andspecial and that's great, you
know.
I think everybody should have a.
If your life is busy, you know,maybe once a month date nine,
(35:52):
schedule, what, and that'd bewhatever you want, but what you
can do weekly, every Wednesday,carrie and I block two hours.
She gets home at like 5 30 andwe block from 5 30 to 7 30 when
we have like wine down we callit used to be a lot more wine
than there is now.
Oh, I like that.
But essentially it is our timeto tell each other what's really
(36:13):
happening in our lives, go overwork, because sometimes you
know by the time she gets homedone with coaching and stuff,
like it's late and I don't wantto tell her about something that
happened at 7 am In the morningand she works in a school.
So I'm right, we're all daylong.
We don't like, you know, likeit's not like this whole
back-and-forth communication.
Or sometimes she sends me thislong text about something that
happens, but I don't have it inme to like go over it and we
(36:34):
never get to connect.
So this is the time where it'slike we might play a board game,
we might do something like that, but it's sacred time.
I mean, not everyone can do 5,7, but it is on our calendars.
It's like it's called wine down, it's the expectation.
We don't go to a bar, we don't.
We literally come to ourkitchen island, we get a drink
and we're like, all right, spillit.
What's going on?
And again, we're not.
(36:54):
This is that school wait totell each other like what's what
we hate about each other forthat time, or anything, it's
more so.
Just a time to like connect onall the things that I feel like
gets missed in the hustle andbustle of a man Right like, or a
hustle bustle of likecarelessness, and you know, a
day goes so fast and it's justlike protected sacred time where
we are just gonna like againconnect, laugh, oh my god, did
(37:17):
you see this reel?
Or whatever, like yeah, and soit's been really, really great
for us to like have thatconsistently.
And again it's like you don'tinvite anyone.
It's no one's over for dinner,it's not around dinner, so
nobody has the pressure of, likeyou know, planning or getting
it done.
You can just kind of come, andI think adopting some version of
(37:37):
that couldn't be a very healthytool For anyone out there
listening who's trying to belike how can I improve
specifically on ourcommunication?
That's not like when it's indanger.
Right, it's, this is a therapy,or you?
Know, it's.
It's kind of like a maintenanceto that communication, I guess I
like that, I might have tostart implementing that.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
You're welcome, mike.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
We'll be back next week for another episode of your
always fine.
Until then, mind your health.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Seriously, you're fine.
You're fine because you havethe power to access your place
of peace anytime you need it.
However, if you get stuck orright at the palm of your hand
to help Check out our show notesfor this week's source list,
recommended content and cabanalive group schedule, we'll catch
you next week for a brand newepisode of you're always fine.
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