Understanding Therapy vs Coaching: Navigating Relationships with Borderline and Narcissistic Parents
September 23, 2024 • 19 mins
Today I share my journey from being a skeptic of the coaching industry to launching my own coaching business, Confident Boundaries, earlier this year. You'll hear about my initial frustrations with the unregulated nature of coaching, especially during the COVID-19 boom, and how I came to recognize a pressing need for accessible support for adults who are trying to navigate their relationship with a parent who has borderline and/or narcissistic personality disorder.
Tune in as I breakdown the roles of therapy and coaching, particularly for those struggling with challenging parental relationships. Learn how both can be beneficial depending on your individual needs and goals.
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Disclaimer: This podcast is not therapy. If you’re in crisis, please call the 988 Crisis Lifeline.
You're Not Crazy is owned and produced by Torie Wiksell and Confident Boundaries, LLC.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Torie Wiksell (00:14):
Welcome to You're Not Crazy, a podcast for the
adult children of parents withborderline and narcissistic
personality disorders.
I'm your host, tori Wixel, atherapist and coach with over a
decade of experience in themental health field.
Now let's jump in, hi guys.
Welcome back to the podcast.
So this week we're going totalk about the difference
(00:36):
between therapy and coaching.
So, as many of you out thereknow, I am both a therapist and
a coach, so I've been atherapist for 11 and a half
years now, which is sosurprising because I still feel
so young, but it's true, I havebeen a therapist for quite a
(01:00):
while and I opened up mycoaching business in the
beginning of 2024.
So coaching has been a muchnewer endeavor for me, and I'll
tell you a bit about why that isand what the difference is
between coaching and therapytoday.
(01:21):
I hated the coaching industry,just in full transparency.
I have hated the coachingindustry for a very, very long
time.
Since COVID, let's say, thecoaching industry has boomed.
There have been so many peopleon social media online just
(01:43):
claiming to be coaches and atfirst I was like what the heck
is that?
This is just so weird and a lotof these people online who call
themselves coaches, I think,are super problematic people for
so many reasons, one of whichbeing that they do not have the
(02:07):
education and training andexperience to do therapy, but
they are absolutely doingtherapy and calling it coaching,
and so I have been veryanti-coaching for a very long
time, and to say that I gettriggered when I see people
online who are bragging abouthow they, you know, are making a
(02:31):
million dollars and doingcoaching, and then to see the
misinformation and horrible,harmful advice that they're
spreading just makes me cringe.
But, alas, how did I become acoach in addition to being a
therapist?
So I was very, veryanti-coaching for a very, very
(02:54):
long time.
It left a bad taste in my mouth.
I really hated it and, at thesame time, I was doing therapy.
I opened my practice in 2018.
And throughout these pastseveral years probably the last
three to five years I have honedin on my specialty, which is
(03:16):
working with adults who grew upwith a parent with either
borderline and or narcissisticpersonality disorder.
If you listen to some of myearlier episodes, I talk a bit
more about getting into thatarea as my niche and specialty
and my own personal experiencegrowing up with a parent with
(03:37):
borderline personality disorderand a lot of narcissistic traits
.
But, in a nutshell, in the pastfew years I've worked primarily
with adults who are strugglingwith a parent that has a
personality disorder, and so Ihave a very unique niche.
There are not a ton of us outthere.
In fact, I very rarelyencounter other therapists who
(04:02):
have this specialty, and evenfewer that you know had a
similar road to getting to thespecialty as I have, and so it's
a very, very specific, very,very small niche that I have.
And so what would happen is Iwould get a lot of emails over
(04:27):
the past several years into mytherapy practice from people who
are located internationally orin a state that I'm not licensed
in, and they would be reachingout because they had struggled
to find a therapist, they hadstruggled to find someone who
really understood the dynamicwith their parent, and they
(04:47):
wanted either therapy or theywanted advice or consulting or,
you know, just to bounce someideas off of me or to chat with
me a little bit more so theycould better understand their
situation.
And unfortunately, for so longI would email these people back
(05:10):
and try to make that email ashelpful as possible, but in a
nutshell, I would sayunfortunately, I'm not licensed
to provide therapy in this place.
This is how I suggest you goabout looking for a therapist
that can help you, and so itwould like break my heart when I
(05:30):
would do that, because I knowhow hard it is to find a
therapist who really gets thisfamily dynamic and who isn't
pressuring you to you know, havea relationship or go no contact
or minimizing the abuse thatyou've experienced, but really
just understands thecomplexities and gets what it's
(05:54):
like to try to set boundariesand for them to not be respected
and to try to process all ofthese really confusing and
complicated dynamics fromgrowing up.
And so it would just kill meevery time I had to turn someone
away and just say, nope, sorry,can't really help.
So I, over the last severalyears, have been trying to
(06:16):
figure out how can I put outinformation and resources to
help people, even if I can't dotherapy with them, right?
So of course, therapy istherapy.
Therapy is different from onlinecourses or workbooks or a
(06:38):
podcast.
This isn't therapy, but this isstill hopefully helpful and
through the podcast, I canprovide information.
Through online courses, I canprovide information, and that
doesn't have to be limited topeople that are located within
the states that I'm licensed in,that can just be available out
(07:01):
there for anyone who'sinterested in learning more
about this really specific area.
And so you know I wasbrainstorming what type of
courses can I do?
Podcasting, what would bereally helpful for me to do
there?
How would that look?
And I thought, what type oflike consulting work could I do
(07:26):
with people to just help themget this information that they
need, get a little bitencouragement, validation that
they're not insane, that this isa very confusing and
complicated dynamic, and, justyou know, provide some genuine,
honest feedback that helps themfeel like, okay, I'm not the
(07:48):
only one out there who has thisexperience.
And so, begrudgingly, I decidedthat my best option was to open
up a coaching business.
So I decided to launch mycoaching company, which is
called Confident Boundaries.
In I think it was February ofthis year, so February 2024, I
(08:13):
launched my coaching business,confident Boundaries.
I launched my coaching business, confident Boundaries, and
that's where I do coaching andthat's where I'm currently
putting out an online course andI have guides and resources and
blogs and that's the company Iuse to self-produce this podcast
as well.
So Confident Boundaries is kindof the umbrella company for
(08:36):
everything that I do.
That's not therapy.
So I know that that was a reallylong story about how I got into
coaching, but let's talk nowabout what the difference is
right between coaching andtherapy, because it's not the
same, and my work with mycoaching clients is not the same
(08:57):
as my work with my therapyclients, and so I really wanted
to be mindful, if I was going toopen up this coaching business,
that I wasn't going to be likethese people I saw that were
just putting out this blanketadvice and calling themselves a
coach even though it wasn'tcoaching.
(09:20):
It was kind of like the TonyRobbins of it all.
So one thing that separates mefrom some of these other coaches
is that I'm a trained therapist, and so I really do understand
what therapy is right and whatit isn't, and so when I talk to
people about coaching, one wordthat I use that tends to
(09:41):
resonate and make a lot moresense to people is consulting,
and that's really, in a nutshell, what my coaching business is.
So with therapy, I typicallywork with my therapy clients for
like, honestly, years not allof them.
Sometimes I work with peoplefor a shorter term like six
(10:02):
months or so but typically Iwork with therapy clients for
several years and, honestly,like I have some clients that I
work with weekly for a few years, then we'll go down and meet
every other week or once a monthand then, if something happens,
we'll meet a little more often.
When things are going well,we'll check in every couple
months, and so therapy canreally ebb and flow in that way.
(10:27):
But with coaching it'stypically much shorter term and
it's very goal specific.
So in therapy we're processingyou know, growing up in your
family, the trauma that you'veexperienced, how that impacts
your mental health and yourrelationships now just all of
the complexities of being ahuman and what that means for
(10:51):
you today and how you can usethat information to help
yourself have more compassionfor yourself, better understand
why you handle situations theway that you do and develop
healthier ways of handlingsituations, moving forward and
just getting through life andyour relationships in the
(11:12):
healthiest way possible.
So that's all therapy.
So again I'm going to saycoaching is very much like
consulting, at least how Iapproach it.
So coaching is very in themoment.
What is going on right here andright now?
I just want a snapshot versionof what your relationship has
(11:35):
been like in the past with yourparent to better understand
what's going on right now.
But it's very future focused,very goal directed, and we're
not going into all the traumaand stuff.
But what we are talking about isvery specific things like how
to set a boundary with yourparent, how to go no contact
(11:56):
with your parent, how to addressadequately address concerns
around safety with your parent.
You know, when you're thinkingabout going no contact or
setting a boundary, if you'reconcerned that your parent might
threaten to harm themselves orthey might have this very
volatile or threatening response, how you can plan for that so
(12:19):
that you can move forward insetting boundaries or going no
contact in a way that is saferfor you and addresses the
concerns that you have aroundtheir own safety as well.
So, coaching, slash, consulting, very specific to dealing with
what is happening right now, inthis moment, how can we make a
(12:43):
plan to get you where you wantto go and how can we be as
action oriented as possible.
So with therapy, you don't haveto be in this stage, right
where you're knowing what youwant to do, like you might not
even know.
Do I want to set a boundarywith my parent, do I not?
Do I need to go no contact.
I don't know.
(13:03):
All of that is fine in therapy.
Part of therapy can be reallytalking through and processing
all of that.
In coaching it's best if youcome to me and have a very clear
idea of how I can help you.
I am coming to coaching becauseI have tried to set boundaries.
That has not worked in the past.
(13:24):
I want to go no contact.
I don't know how to do that.
I'm really concerned aboutthese issues in the dynamic
between myself and my parent andI just really need to talk it
through with someone else.
Or maybe even I've gone nocontact with my parent and I
need to talk to someone else whounderstands why and what that's
(13:46):
like and how isolating it couldbe.
So I don't feel as crazy as Isometimes do when I talk to
other people.
And so coaching is so specificto what's going on here and now.
And with coaching I typicallymeet with people you know very
short term.
I have coaching clients who Iliterally meet with one time and
(14:08):
we're able to accomplish a veryspecific thing in that hour.
I would say for most coachingclients I meet with them a
handful of times, so maybe overthe course of you know, one to
four months.
We meet every other week oronce a week.
It just kind of depends onwhat's going on.
(14:30):
I might meet with someone oncea month for like three months,
or, you know, weekly for a monthor two while we work through
some very specific boundarysetting or plans to go no
contact, and then we might spaceit out to every other week or
once a month, and then typicallyby like four to six months
(14:50):
we're not meeting anymorebecause we've accomplished what
you came to coaching toaccomplish.
So that's the differencebetween coaching and therapy and
I hope that that helps answersome of the questions that you
may have about what's right foryou.
I think that it really justdepends on where you are and
(15:13):
what you're hoping to achieve.
It's not necessarily an eitheror situation right, like I have
coaching clients who have atherapist and they come to me
for again like a consultingthing, one or two times or a
handful of times and then theycontinue with their therapist.
So hopefully that helps explainthe value in both the
(15:37):
differences between therapy andcoaching and helps you better
understand why at this point inmy career I've decided to branch
out and do both coaching andtherapy.
So, before we wrap up today,I've got a few quick notes for
you.
On my website,confidentboundariescom, you can
(15:58):
find all the information aboutmy coaching business, about the
Boundaries Roadmap online coursethat I will hopefully be
putting out this week.
This course is a much morein-depth and expanded upon
version of my Complete Guide toSetting Boundaries with a parent
(16:19):
with borderline and ornarcissistic personality
disorder.
So there are video modules,there is an expanded upon
workbook there's just way moreinformation in there and it
really is a step-by-step guidefor you of how to set boundaries
.
My goal with this online courseis for you to learn the exact
(16:41):
skills that you need to use inorder to effectively set
boundaries with a parent withBPD or narcissistic personality
disorder, and in the course I gothrough and I tell you what you
need to do, in which order andwhy, and I problem solve through
different situations, like whenyour parents push back, and I
(17:05):
also talk about what situationsshould you start thinking about
no contact?
Not because I think anyone needsto go no contact, but because I
think it's really important foryou to understand that you
always have a choice, right Likeyou.
Having a relationship throughboundaries is a choice.
(17:29):
You, going no contact is achoice.
I want you to make the choicesfor yourself and your life that
feel good to you, and the onlyway that you can do that is if
you really have an idea of whyyou're choosing what you're
choosing and if you're beingreality-based with whether or
(17:53):
not you're trying to have arelationship with your parent
that they're actually capable ofhaving with you.
Right, your parent is nevergoing to be this emotionally
intelligent, supportive person,but that doesn't mean that
they're not capable of havingany relationship with you, and
so check out the online course.
(18:14):
Hopefully it will be up in thenext day or so.
Actually, hopefully it'll be upwhen you listen to this podcast
.
But you can find all that atconfidentboundariescom.
Thanks so much for joining mefor another week of You're Not
Crazy.
If you like the podcast, pleasemake sure to rate us five stars
(18:35):
and leave a review.
It helps so much.
Five stars and leave a review,it helps so much.
And make sure to check the shownotes for discounts and updates
of what's going on in my world.
Okay, I'll see you next week.
Welcome to You're Not Crazy, a podcast for the
adult children of parents withborderline and narcissistic
personality disorders.
I'm your host, tori Wixel, atherapist and coach with over a
decade of experience in themental health field.
Now let's jump in, hi guys.
Welcome back to the podcast.
So this week we're going totalk about the difference
(00:36):
between therapy and coaching.
So, as many of you out thereknow, I am both a therapist and
a coach, so I've been atherapist for 11 and a half
years now, which is sosurprising because I still feel
so young, but it's true, I havebeen a therapist for quite a
(01:00):
while and I opened up mycoaching business in the
beginning of 2024.
So coaching has been a muchnewer endeavor for me, and I'll
tell you a bit about why that isand what the difference is
between coaching and therapytoday.
(01:21):
I hated the coaching industry,just in full transparency.
I have hated the coachingindustry for a very, very long
time.
Since COVID, let's say, thecoaching industry has boomed.
There have been so many peopleon social media online just
(01:43):
claiming to be coaches and atfirst I was like what the heck
is that?
This is just so weird and a lotof these people online who call
themselves coaches, I think,are super problematic people for
so many reasons, one of whichbeing that they do not have the
(02:07):
education and training andexperience to do therapy, but
they are absolutely doingtherapy and calling it coaching,
and so I have been veryanti-coaching for a very long
time, and to say that I gettriggered when I see people
online who are bragging abouthow they, you know, are making a
(02:31):
million dollars and doingcoaching, and then to see the
misinformation and horrible,harmful advice that they're
spreading just makes me cringe.
But, alas, how did I become acoach in addition to being a
therapist?
So I was very, veryanti-coaching for a very, very
(02:54):
long time.
It left a bad taste in my mouth.
I really hated it and, at thesame time, I was doing therapy.
I opened my practice in 2018.
And throughout these pastseveral years probably the last
three to five years I have honedin on my specialty, which is
(03:16):
working with adults who grew upwith a parent with either
borderline and or narcissisticpersonality disorder.
If you listen to some of myearlier episodes, I talk a bit
more about getting into thatarea as my niche and specialty
and my own personal experiencegrowing up with a parent with
(03:37):
borderline personality disorderand a lot of narcissistic traits
.
But, in a nutshell, in the pastfew years I've worked primarily
with adults who are strugglingwith a parent that has a
personality disorder, and so Ihave a very unique niche.
There are not a ton of us outthere.
In fact, I very rarelyencounter other therapists who
(04:02):
have this specialty, and evenfewer that you know had a
similar road to getting to thespecialty as I have, and so it's
a very, very specific, very,very small niche that I have.
And so what would happen is Iwould get a lot of emails over
(04:27):
the past several years into mytherapy practice from people who
are located internationally orin a state that I'm not licensed
in, and they would be reachingout because they had struggled
to find a therapist, they hadstruggled to find someone who
really understood the dynamicwith their parent, and they
(04:47):
wanted either therapy or theywanted advice or consulting or,
you know, just to bounce someideas off of me or to chat with
me a little bit more so theycould better understand their
situation.
And unfortunately, for so longI would email these people back
(05:10):
and try to make that email ashelpful as possible, but in a
nutshell, I would sayunfortunately, I'm not licensed
to provide therapy in this place.
This is how I suggest you goabout looking for a therapist
that can help you, and so itwould like break my heart when I
(05:30):
would do that, because I knowhow hard it is to find a
therapist who really gets thisfamily dynamic and who isn't
pressuring you to you know, havea relationship or go no contact
or minimizing the abuse thatyou've experienced, but really
just understands thecomplexities and gets what it's
(05:54):
like to try to set boundariesand for them to not be respected
and to try to process all ofthese really confusing and
complicated dynamics fromgrowing up.
And so it would just kill meevery time I had to turn someone
away and just say, nope, sorry,can't really help.
So I, over the last severalyears, have been trying to
(06:16):
figure out how can I put outinformation and resources to
help people, even if I can't dotherapy with them, right?
So of course, therapy istherapy.
Therapy is different from onlinecourses or workbooks or a
(06:38):
podcast.
This isn't therapy, but this isstill hopefully helpful and
through the podcast, I canprovide information.
Through online courses, I canprovide information, and that
doesn't have to be limited topeople that are located within
the states that I'm licensed in,that can just be available out
(07:01):
there for anyone who'sinterested in learning more
about this really specific area.
And so you know I wasbrainstorming what type of
courses can I do?
Podcasting, what would bereally helpful for me to do
there?
How would that look?
And I thought, what type oflike consulting work could I do
(07:26):
with people to just help themget this information that they
need, get a little bitencouragement, validation that
they're not insane, that this isa very confusing and
complicated dynamic, and, justyou know, provide some genuine,
honest feedback that helps themfeel like, okay, I'm not the
(07:48):
only one out there who has thisexperience.
And so, begrudgingly, I decidedthat my best option was to open
up a coaching business.
So I decided to launch mycoaching company, which is
called Confident Boundaries.
In I think it was February ofthis year, so February 2024, I
(08:13):
launched my coaching business,confident Boundaries.
I launched my coaching business, confident Boundaries, and
that's where I do coaching andthat's where I'm currently
putting out an online course andI have guides and resources and
blogs and that's the company Iuse to self-produce this podcast
as well.
So Confident Boundaries is kindof the umbrella company for
(08:36):
everything that I do.
That's not therapy.
So I know that that was a reallylong story about how I got into
coaching, but let's talk nowabout what the difference is
right between coaching andtherapy, because it's not the
same, and my work with mycoaching clients is not the same
(08:57):
as my work with my therapyclients, and so I really wanted
to be mindful, if I was going toopen up this coaching business,
that I wasn't going to be likethese people I saw that were
just putting out this blanketadvice and calling themselves a
coach even though it wasn'tcoaching.
(09:20):
It was kind of like the TonyRobbins of it all.
So one thing that separates mefrom some of these other coaches
is that I'm a trained therapist, and so I really do understand
what therapy is right and whatit isn't, and so when I talk to
people about coaching, one wordthat I use that tends to
(09:41):
resonate and make a lot moresense to people is consulting,
and that's really, in a nutshell, what my coaching business is.
So with therapy, I typicallywork with my therapy clients for
like, honestly, years not allof them.
Sometimes I work with peoplefor a shorter term like six
(10:02):
months or so but typically Iwork with therapy clients for
several years and, honestly,like I have some clients that I
work with weekly for a few years, then we'll go down and meet
every other week or once a monthand then, if something happens,
we'll meet a little more often.
When things are going well,we'll check in every couple
months, and so therapy canreally ebb and flow in that way.
(10:27):
But with coaching it'stypically much shorter term and
it's very goal specific.
So in therapy we're processingyou know, growing up in your
family, the trauma that you'veexperienced, how that impacts
your mental health and yourrelationships now just all of
the complexities of being ahuman and what that means for
(10:51):
you today and how you can usethat information to help
yourself have more compassionfor yourself, better understand
why you handle situations theway that you do and develop
healthier ways of handlingsituations, moving forward and
just getting through life andyour relationships in the
(11:12):
healthiest way possible.
So that's all therapy.
So again I'm going to saycoaching is very much like
consulting, at least how Iapproach it.
So coaching is very in themoment.
What is going on right here andright now?
I just want a snapshot versionof what your relationship has
(11:35):
been like in the past with yourparent to better understand
what's going on right now.
But it's very future focused,very goal directed, and we're
not going into all the traumaand stuff.
But what we are talking about isvery specific things like how
to set a boundary with yourparent, how to go no contact
(11:56):
with your parent, how to addressadequately address concerns
around safety with your parent.
You know, when you're thinkingabout going no contact or
setting a boundary, if you'reconcerned that your parent might
threaten to harm themselves orthey might have this very
volatile or threatening response, how you can plan for that so
(12:19):
that you can move forward insetting boundaries or going no
contact in a way that is saferfor you and addresses the
concerns that you have aroundtheir own safety as well.
So, coaching, slash, consulting, very specific to dealing with
what is happening right now, inthis moment, how can we make a
(12:43):
plan to get you where you wantto go and how can we be as
action oriented as possible.
So with therapy, you don't haveto be in this stage, right
where you're knowing what youwant to do, like you might not
even know.
Do I want to set a boundarywith my parent, do I not?
Do I need to go no contact.
I don't know.
(13:03):
All of that is fine in therapy.
Part of therapy can be reallytalking through and processing
all of that.
In coaching it's best if youcome to me and have a very clear
idea of how I can help you.
I am coming to coaching becauseI have tried to set boundaries.
That has not worked in the past.
(13:24):
I want to go no contact.
I don't know how to do that.
I'm really concerned aboutthese issues in the dynamic
between myself and my parent andI just really need to talk it
through with someone else.
Or maybe even I've gone nocontact with my parent and I
need to talk to someone else whounderstands why and what that's
(13:46):
like and how isolating it couldbe.
So I don't feel as crazy as Isometimes do when I talk to
other people.
And so coaching is so specificto what's going on here and now.
And with coaching I typicallymeet with people you know very
short term.
I have coaching clients who Iliterally meet with one time and
(14:08):
we're able to accomplish a veryspecific thing in that hour.
I would say for most coachingclients I meet with them a
handful of times, so maybe overthe course of you know, one to
four months.
We meet every other week oronce a week.
It just kind of depends onwhat's going on.
(14:30):
I might meet with someone oncea month for like three months,
or, you know, weekly for a monthor two while we work through
some very specific boundarysetting or plans to go no
contact, and then we might spaceit out to every other week or
once a month, and then typicallyby like four to six months
(14:50):
we're not meeting anymorebecause we've accomplished what
you came to coaching toaccomplish.
So that's the differencebetween coaching and therapy and
I hope that that helps answersome of the questions that you
may have about what's right foryou.
I think that it really justdepends on where you are and
(15:13):
what you're hoping to achieve.
It's not necessarily an eitheror situation right, like I have
coaching clients who have atherapist and they come to me
for again like a consultingthing, one or two times or a
handful of times and then theycontinue with their therapist.
So hopefully that helps explainthe value in both the
(15:37):
differences between therapy andcoaching and helps you better
understand why at this point inmy career I've decided to branch
out and do both coaching andtherapy.
So, before we wrap up today,I've got a few quick notes for
you.
On my website,confidentboundariescom, you can
(15:58):
find all the information aboutmy coaching business, about the
Boundaries Roadmap online coursethat I will hopefully be
putting out this week.
This course is a much morein-depth and expanded upon
version of my Complete Guide toSetting Boundaries with a parent
(16:19):
with borderline and ornarcissistic personality
disorder.
So there are video modules,there is an expanded upon
workbook there's just way moreinformation in there and it
really is a step-by-step guidefor you of how to set boundaries
.
My goal with this online courseis for you to learn the exact
(16:41):
skills that you need to use inorder to effectively set
boundaries with a parent withBPD or narcissistic personality
disorder, and in the course I gothrough and I tell you what you
need to do, in which order andwhy, and I problem solve through
different situations, like whenyour parents push back, and I
(17:05):
also talk about what situationsshould you start thinking about
no contact?
Not because I think anyone needsto go no contact, but because I
think it's really important foryou to understand that you
always have a choice, right Likeyou.
Having a relationship throughboundaries is a choice.
(17:29):
You, going no contact is achoice.
I want you to make the choicesfor yourself and your life that
feel good to you, and the onlyway that you can do that is if
you really have an idea of whyyou're choosing what you're
choosing and if you're beingreality-based with whether or
(17:53):
not you're trying to have arelationship with your parent
that they're actually capable ofhaving with you.
Right, your parent is nevergoing to be this emotionally
intelligent, supportive person,but that doesn't mean that
they're not capable of havingany relationship with you, and
so check out the online course.
(18:14):
Hopefully it will be up in thenext day or so.
Actually, hopefully it'll be upwhen you listen to this podcast
.
But you can find all that atconfidentboundariescom.
Thanks so much for joining mefor another week of You're Not
Crazy.
If you like the podcast, pleasemake sure to rate us five stars
(18:35):
and leave a review.
It helps so much.
Five stars and leave a review,it helps so much.
And make sure to check the shownotes for discounts and updates
of what's going on in my world.
Okay, I'll see you next week.
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