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October 1, 2024 19 mins

Today, I'm talking about the frustrating reality of dealing with parents who continue to display toxic behaviors despite years of therapy. I share a personal story about my own mother who insisted her therapist told her she no longer needed therapy. Then, I discuss why some therapists are not be equipped to work with clients who have personality disorders and why people with personality disorders often seek out therapists who validate rather than challenge them. 

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Disclaimer: This podcast is not therapy. If you’re in crisis, please call the 988 Crisis Lifeline.

You're Not Crazy is owned and produced by Torie Wiksell and Confident Boundaries, LLC.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Torie Wiksell (00:14):
Welcome to You're Not Crazy, a podcast for the
adult children of parents withborderline and narcissistic
personality disorders.
I'm your host, tori Wixel, atherapist and coach with over a
decade of experience in themental health field.
Now let's jump in.
Hi guys, welcome back toanother episode of You're Not

(00:35):
Crazy.
Before we jump into the podcast, I just want to say a couple of
things.
First of all, thank you so muchfor everyone who's been
reaching out and sharing howmuch the podcast has resonated
with them.
I really appreciate thefeedback.
You guys are so kind, the DMs,the emails I've been getting.

(00:55):
Feel free to always shoot me aDM, send me an email.
You can reach me at ToriT-O-R-I-E at
confidentboundariescom.
I love to hear your thoughtsand please continue to share the
podcast with any friends orfamily members that you think
might really appreciate it orthat it might resonate with.

(01:18):
Helping spread the word aboutthe podcast is truly the biggest
gift in the world that youcould give me.
So thank you guys so much, andthank you again for sharing all
of your thoughts andappreciation with me.
It just really warms my heart.
So the other really big thingthat I wanted to share with you
guys before we hop into thisepisode is that last week, I did

(01:41):
launch our first online course.
It's called the BoundariesRoadmap and I'm so excited about
it.
So this is something that'sbeen in the works for a really
long time and I'm so thrilledthat I was finally able to
launch it last week.
So I am no salesperson.

(02:02):
So I am no salesperson.
Whenever I have a phoneconsultation with a new therapy
client or a quick email exchangewith a potential coaching
client, I often share.
If they ask why should I workwith you?
Maybe you shouldn't?
That's, honestly my answer alot of the times.
I don't want to sell anyone onanything.

(02:25):
I think that you are by far thebest person to decide if you're
ready for or needing supportwith anything in your life, and
I know that, being the parent orbeing the child of a parent
with either borderline ornarcissistic personality
disorder, you've probably beentold your entire life by your

(02:46):
parent who you are, what youshould think, what you do think,
blah, blah, blah, and so Idon't want to be an additional
voice trying to convince you ofsomething you do or do not need,
whether that is working with mein therapy or coaching or
purchasing this online course.
But what I do want to share iswhat the online course is, so

(03:09):
that if it is something thatyou're looking for and you feel
that it might be helpful for you, you know that it's a resource
out there and it's available now.
So the online course is a guidewhere I've walked through, in
the chronological order that Itend to take most therapy and

(03:29):
coaching clients through how toset boundaries with a parent who
has borderline and ornarcissistic personality
disorder.
So we talk about in the coursewhat are some really important
things that you understand abouthaving a parent with borderline
personality disorder, and thenI also go into what are some

(03:51):
really important things that youneed to understand about having
a parent with narcissisticpersonality disorder as well,
and so we go into that.
We talk about reasons whyboundaries often are
unsuccessful, how to approachthose situations, strategies for
not backing down on yourboundaries when your parent

(04:13):
pushes back because of course,they will right and I give
scripts of actual commonboundaries that you might need
to set that you can obviouslyjust use verbatim if they work
for you.
It's really an inclusive guideand this course is it's made up
of videos that I've recorded ofmyself kind of talking through

(04:36):
really important topics, as wellas a workbook that I put
together myself that reallyhelps guide you through certain
exercises and activities thatare not overwhelming, they're
not extremely time consuming,but they are extremely helpful
and they really In my experienceat least personally and working

(05:01):
with clients professionallythey really can make the
difference between being able toconfident.
Excuse me, it is very earlyhere where I'm recording this
and I apologize if that isshowing through today, but we're
all just doing our best, aren'twe?

(05:22):
So back to what I was saying thewhole purpose of the course is
to not only teach you how to setboundaries with a parent who
has borderline personalitydisorder or narcissistic
personality disorder because weall know that that's a very
different situation than settinga boundary with a parent who

(05:43):
doesn't have a personalitydisorder but the whole purpose
of the course is to not onlyteach you what works and what
doesn't and how to troubleshootthe things that don't work or
issues that are really commonthat you may run up into, but
it's to give you confidence inapproaching boundary setting,
because that's the thing that alot of people are lacking, even

(06:05):
when you spend hours and hoursGoogling these things.
How do I set healthy boundaries?
What do I do if I have a momwho has narcissistic personality
disorder?
What do I do if I have a parentwho has borderline personality
disorder?
How do I approach it?
Personality disorder how do Iapproach it?

(06:26):
Even if you have all of thatinformation at your disposal, it
can be really overwhelming andit doesn't necessarily give you
like the information.
In and of itself, just readingthings doesn't always give you
the confidence that you arecapable of approaching the
situation, and so that is mygoal with the course is
delivering this content in a waythat helps you understand that

(06:48):
you are quite capable of settingthese boundaries and you're
allowed to decide whatboundaries you want to set, when
you want to set them, and youcan just repeat this same
roadmap over and over and overagain anytime you need to set a
boundary.
So if you're interested in thecourse, if you just want to

(07:09):
check it out a little bit, ifyou're wanting to get started
right now, today, go toconfident boundariescom.
Slash the boundaries roadmap.
You can either put theboundaries roadmap all one word
or the dash boundaries dashroadmap.
Both go to the same locationand if you use the code podcast

(07:32):
10, you get 10% off the courseas well.
So if you have any questions,again, feel free to reach out to
me, tori T-O-R-I-E atconfidentboundariescom, and I am
happy to try to help you decideif that course is a good fit
for you or not.
So, with all of that said, let'sjump into this week's episode,

(07:54):
where I want to talk about thefact that if your parent is
someone who goes to therapyevery week, if your parent is
someone who has gone to therapyfor years and years and years
and yet continues to demonstrateabusive and toxic behavior but
loves to talk about how they aredoing the work in therapy, I

(08:18):
want to validate for you that,yes, as therapists, many of us
understand this dynamic.
I know so badly that so many ofyou probably want to reach out
to your parents therapist andsay my mom or dad is lying to
you like they're full of shit,they're not telling you the

(08:39):
truth, this is not helping them.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And that's super valid, right?
Because I know it's very, veryfrustrating when you are someone
who is trying to work onyourself, as I know all of you
are Otherwise you wouldn't belistening to me when you're
someone who's trying to work onthemselves, when you're someone

(09:01):
that recognizes that they haveinformation gaps, that they need
to learn how to tap into theiremotions in a healthier way.
They need to learn how to dothings like set boundaries in a
healthy way.
And you have a parent who iscontinuously demonstrating toxic

(09:22):
behaviors, has been abusivethroughout your lifetime and
they are bragging about how theygo to therapy and their
therapist just says that youknow they're doing a great job.
That is very aggravating.
It is so irritating, it is soannoying and I think I've told

(09:44):
this story on the podcast but wehave a lot of new listeners so
I'm going to tell it again andI'm going to try to do so fairly
quickly.
So I have a super fun storyabout my mom mom.
When I was probably in my early20s, maybe late teens, I had

(10:07):
been in therapy for a while.
I was trying to set somehealthy boundaries and that was
really not going very well.
And there was this time where Iwas back home from college for
I don't even remember vacation,something who knows but I was

(10:36):
back home and I was staying withmy mom and she had me cornered
in a downstairs hallway and wasscreaming in my face that she
has done the work in therapy,that she is good that her
therapist told her that shedoesn't need therapy anymore.
Yes, while screaming in my faceand having me backed up against
a wall.

(10:56):
That is something that I willnever forget in my entire life
because it was pretty horrific,like and just the irony right of
someone screaming, saying thatthey don't need therapy when
they are clearly dysregulatedand that is so inappropriate.

(11:16):
But what I've come to learnmany, many years later, after
doing so much more work on myown personal therapy and, just,
you know, experiencing more lifeand learning as a therapist,
what I have come to realize isthat it wouldn't have mattered

(11:38):
if I reached out to hertherapist and said my mom's full
of shit, she's been lying toyou, because a few things are
going to happen.
Right One, this therapist maytruly be incompetent at treating
someone with a personalitydisorder and may not even

(11:58):
recognize that.
My mom had definite borderlinepersonality disorder and as I
continue to process my childhoodand early adulthood, you know,
honestly, probably narcissisticpersonality disorder, if not
many, many narcissistic traitsas well.
And so if you are a therapistwho doesn't have experience in

(12:22):
assessing for personalitydisorders, treating people with
personality disorders,oftentimes therapists don't
recognize personality disorders,and I know you might be
thinking well, that's crazy, butthat's true.
So that is very possible, andpeople with personality
disorders are great at findingtherapists who want to work with

(12:44):
them that don't have thetraining or competence to work
with them, because they are muchmore capable of getting what
they want out of that situation.
Right?
If someone doesn't actuallywant to self-reflect and do the
work to change which is hard andnot fun and is distressing at

(13:07):
times, to acknowledge thingsabout patterns that you've
engaged in, that aren'tproductive, that aren't healthy,
doing the work is hard, and soif you're someone who is not
interested in doing the work butreally wants to pretend or
project this image that you aresomeone who is working on

(13:28):
themselves, then you're going tolook for a therapist who's
going to validate all of yourexperiences without challenging
you at all.
And to find a therapist likethat, you're going to probably
have to test out a few andyou're going to quit the ones
that do push back on you.

(13:48):
Right?
That's typically how it goes.
I can talk a little bit about myown experience working with
clients with personalitydisorders in another episode,
but when you have experience andtraining and education working
with clients with personalitydisorders, it is a much more

(14:09):
delicate dance that you do so asa therapist, someone who is
competent with working withsomeone with a personality
disorder, is going to firstbuild rapport with them, just
like as therapists we do withany client.
Because if you don't know us,if you don't trust us, if you
don't like us, you're not goingto listen to anything that we

(14:31):
have to say.
Right, that's just human natureand relationships.
So you know, building thatrelationship in the beginning is
not when you push back, butwhen you have a relationship
with someone, whether they havea personality disorder or not,
you do have to challenge them onsome ways of thinking and
approaching situations that justreally don't seem to align with

(14:53):
their overall goals and wantsand desires in life.
And so I think a therapist whois really skilled at working
with clients with personalitydisorders is going to understand
how to do that delicate danceof confronting someone with a
personality disorder in a waythat could be a bit more
productive.
And this is typically BPD thatI'm talking about when I'm

(15:15):
talking about successful therapy.
Again, if someone hasnarcissistic personality
disorder, they lack empathy,right.
And if someone lacks empathy,they don't care how their
actions affect other people, sothey're not actually intending
to improve their behavior, butthat's an aside.

(15:35):
So, going back to your parentlying to their therapist one,
they may be lying to theirtherapist and their therapist
just may not get it.
They may not see it, they maynot get it, they may not you
know whatever.
But they may be lying to theirtherapist and their therapist
may get it, they may get it andthey may highly suspect or on

(15:57):
some level know, due toinconsistencies in your parents'
storytelling or things likethat, that your parent is lying
and a good therapist is going todo what I just did.
Right, they're going to try tochallenge your parent, but when
you're working with someone witha personality disorder, that

(16:18):
challenge is a really delicatedance, and so it can take a lot
of time if someone is really notready to hear things that the
therapist is saying to them.
So we're on the same page.
Your parent may be lying totheir therapist to them, so
we're on the same page.
Your parent may be lying totheir therapist.
And let's get back to how thatimpacts you for a second.

(16:38):
Obviously, it's annoying, right?
It's frustrating.
Yes, you need to talk about howfrustrating it is, and you need
to have people in your life,whether it's a therapist or
friends or other family members.
Maybe you're close with asibling or a cousin that you can
vent to.
You need to be able to vent tosomeone about it that can

(16:58):
validate that you're not crazybecause you're not right.
You are not crazy.
This is very frustrating, it'sirritating and it probably makes
it very challenging for you tohave a relationship with your
parent.
But at the same time, I reallywant you to also work on radical
acceptance.
I want you to work on acceptingthat this is part of the

(17:22):
personality disorder, right?
People with personalitydisorders are very resistant to
changing the aspects of theirpersonality disorder because
it's part of their personality.
So really accepting that yourparent yeah, they're acting like
someone who is struggling witha personality disorder I think

(17:44):
can really be liberating and itcan really help you move forward
in a direction, instead ofgetting stuck on this wheel of
why won't they just actually dothe work in therapy.
Well, the reason is becausethey have a personality disorder
, right, and it's kind of thislike catch 22.

(18:06):
I don't even know if I'm usingthat phrase right.
I'm the worst at idioms.
Someone please email me and letme know.
But, on that note, I'll see youguys next week.
Thanks so much for joining mefor another week of You're Not
Crazy.
If you like the podcast, pleasemake sure to rate us five stars
and leave a review.
It helps so much.

(18:27):
And make sure to check the shownotes for discounts and updates
of what's going on in my world.
Okay, I'll see you next week.
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