June 8, 2023 • 58 mins
What happens when the PGA Tour and LIV become one? Join us in this heated episode of the Pure Golf Podcast, where Jordan, Aron, David, and Zach passionately debate the winners, losers, and future implications of this game-changing merger. As we navigate this monumental announcement, we'll examine the impact on players, the credibility of PGA Tour leadership, and the potential consequences for the sport of golf.
We'll dive into the details of the lucrative contracts and bonuses with names like Rory McIlroy and discuss how Phil Mickelson may have outsmarted everyone with his strategic foresight. As we dissect Rory's handling of the situation, we'll also touch on the controversial topic of doing business with countries with questionable human rights records. Can the PGA and LIV Tour merger navigate these ethical complexities without tarnishing the game's reputation?
Lastly, we'll analyze the potential future of golf events in the wake of the merger and how it could impact the sport's accessibility and fan engagement. Tune in for an in-depth exploration of the PGA and LIV Tour merger, and join the conversation as we attempt to predict the future of golf.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan (00:00):
Coming up on this podcast.
We have Arianne, we have David,we have Zach and we have me,
jordan, and we are going todiscuss Live PGA and DP World
Tour merger.
Over to the announcements.
Hey everyone, welcome to theannouncements section of the
podcast and thank you forjoining us.
This week we have alreadyreleased a podcast of recapping
(00:24):
the Memorial tournament thatVictor Howlin won.
It's a great recap.
I highly suggest tuning intothat one.
Then Zach on the YouTubechannel released a nine-hole
video that went into a playoff.
It's the first time that hasever happened.
Very entertaining video overthere.
It is the best I've ever seenZach putt on camera.
(00:46):
So very cool video.
This episode today was actuallysupposed to be a putter episode
New slash.
It changed drastically when thePGA and Live and DP World Tour
announced what all is happeningthere, so we canceled the putter
podcast and put this one ininstead.
Finally, over the weekend, zachis going to be releasing an
(01:07):
update on his road to break 80.
There may have been a littlebit of a bump in the road.
I will preview it, no more thanthat, but sometimes bumps in
the road happen on your journeyto break 80.
That'll do it for theannouncements.
Thanks, welcome to the Pure GolfPodcast.
(01:53):
My name is Jordan And in just acouple minutes I will be joined
by David, zach and Ariane as wediscuss our breakdown of the
PGA Live Tour and DP World Tourmerger.
This one is going to be alittle bit edited on some parts
because, as we were meeting,some different news came out
(02:16):
that the Live Tour is notplanning on going anywhere from
an announcement that Greg Normanfinally made, so a little bit
misconstrued there.
As we just continue to wait fordetails to emerge, i think this
is the most fired up I got on apodcast, i think it's.
If you've never heard me getloud before, i definitely get
(02:39):
loud in this podcast because I'mjust, i rate, at one of the
takes that is being made.
So look forward to that.
If you know me at all, itdoesn't happen very often, but
it is a really great podcast.
Something that I will go aheadand say separately before we
join the rest of these guys is Ipeople want to hear my take.
(03:03):
I've gotten that text and phonecall many times in these past
36 hours of would really love tohear your thoughts.
There's a.
This is probably the biggestsports announcement in my entire
life because of it is solayered and there's just so much
depth to what just happened.
I think this is just a massiveannouncement on so many levels.
(03:26):
I think it's going to dictate alot of the future in sports, for
lack of a better term, buyingyour way into the table, and I
don't think Jay Monahan has donea great job navigating this
terrain.
But it's also very easy for meto say, as I sit here giving my
(03:48):
take from an office chair whilehe's got plenty more information
in front of him Do I think thisis best for the best?
Do I think this is the best forthe game of golf in the future?
I actually do.
I think, going forward, this isgoing to be great for the game
of golf, but I don't like how wegot here.
(04:09):
I really, really don't.
I think that kind of getsacross to this podcast ahead.
I don't like how we got here Atall.
I think it's created a lot oftears in the fabric of golf.
I think it's divided a tourfrom its commissioner now And I
actually think in a way, it'sactually divided America in some
(04:31):
ways because of some of thecomments that Jay Monahan made.
He made it very political,didn't need to get political?
In hindsight probably not, andhe probably regrets what he said
.
He claims he went off theinformation that was given to
him at the time.
So so are we right now And wehaven't been given a lot of
(04:53):
information.
So there's a lot more to drop.
I know for a fact more is aboutto drop, but I don't know when
it will be dropped.
So it's kind of like waitingfor a shoot of fall that you
know is going to fall but youdon't know exactly when.
Curious how the media is goingto take some of this, how
they're going to twist it andwhat stance will be taken.
(05:16):
Who's going to be the good guy?
Who's going to be the bad guy?
It's a very unsettled terrainthat we enter, moving forward,
for all that's at stake hereGolf, in the words of Rory, golf
now does.
If the Saudis did want toinvest in the game of golf and
it looks like they did That'sgreat, and now it looks like
(05:40):
maybe we can allocate thosefunds to direct the game of golf
in a very bright way, and thatis very encouraging.
Again, i don't like how we gothere, but those are my initial
takes.
I think more of my takes comethrough in the podcast.
Let's see what happens next.
There's just so much more tohappen, so I will kick it over
(06:02):
to the four of us and we willkind of go from there.
But enjoy the podcast.
It is a very dramatic one,thanks.
Zach (06:13):
Let's start out.
You know what everybody?
Let's start out with a 10 wordsor less to begin this podcast,
because I've gotten a lot of DMsfrom people asking when are you
guys going to talk about this?
I know Jordan has.
We've been in the office andpeople have been asking us as
well.
Jordan, i'm going to let youstart.
Give me 10 words of less foryour first initial reaction with
(06:36):
the PGA live news.
Jordan (06:39):
Oh man, Otter shock.
I'm going to stick it two words.
Otter shock, Farah David.
David (06:49):
Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
Sucks to be Greg Norman.
Zach (06:54):
That's good, arihan.
Aryon (06:57):
This was inevitably going to happen, but faster than I
thought.
Zach (07:02):
My 10 words or less is.
I agree with Arihan for sure,that's my 10 words or less.
Okay, so let's kind of give abrief before we jump into the
discussions.
Who wants to give a briefsummary of what actually ended
up happening, like the final?
we're recording this a full dayafter the news dropped.
(07:24):
Who feels comfortable enough togive a brief summary of what
just happened?
Aryon (07:30):
Arihan, yeah, basically, the PGA tour, the DP World Tour
and live are unified by, we'llcall it, a parent company that
is going to be run by JayMonahan or led by Jay Monahan.
David (07:52):
He'll be the CEO.
Aryon (07:53):
He'll be the CEO And this company will be given funding.
It's not the actual publicinvestment fund?
David (08:04):
No, So basically the public investment fund will be
the investor in this neworganization that's yet to be
named or really told much about.
Jay Monahan is going to be theCEO.
The chairman of the board willbe the gentleman that runs the
PIF and that currently is themain financier of the live tour,
(08:25):
But supposedly the PGA tour ie,Jay Monahan and the PGA tour
will have complete control interms of decision making and
where the funding goes Correct.
Aryon (08:39):
And, as of right now, live still exists as its own
entity, although I'm sure we'llget into this more, but most
people don't think that's goingto last very long.
Zach (08:52):
Interesting.
Okay, fair enough, arihan, i'mgoing to start just initial
reaction.
Who is the biggest winner inthis whole news drop?
Aryon (09:03):
The biggest winners, in my opinion, are the players who
received the large sums of moneyand signed contracts with live
And, as it stands right now,will be, in some way, shape or
form, be allowed to play on thePGA tour, and really it appears
(09:29):
as though they haven't lost muchbut have gained a lot.
As it stands right now, as itstands right now.
Zach (09:34):
Yeah, david, give me the losers of this whole debacle.
David (09:39):
Well, outside of Greg Norman, who looks like he's
about to get shafted in thiswhole deal, because right now,
the big prevailing rumor becausewe don't have a lot of concrete
information is that he's prettymuch going to be gone And the
fact that he was giveninformation five minutes
beforehand that this washappening And yet he is
(10:00):
supposedly running the live tourChairman.
Yeah, you know, i mean that'skind of a problem for him, but I
don't know.
I actually would argue that thebiggest loser right now, or
people that are certainly in theheart in a very strange
position, are really the playerson the live tour.
So I mean, in my opinion, ithink that those guys at this
(10:25):
point they're going to have tobuy their way back into the tour
because there's going to be amajor financial, i think,
penalty for them to actually getback on the PGA tour.
The question is, how much cashhave they really gotten from
those contracts?
What did they really sign?
Aryon (10:40):
So David, you think the biggest losers are the people
who I think are the biggestwinners?
Yeah, I was about to say Prettyclose, man.
David (10:48):
I think that there's going to be a lot coming out
about that.
I mean because they're not justautomatically back on the tour,
right, and it's still this TBD,you know, to be determined as
so far as what they actuallyhave to do to earn the tour
cards back.
So I mean, in a sense, let mepivot The real losers are the
(11:09):
guys that are ranked, like youknow, that are on the cut of
losing their.
they're on the verge of losingtheir tour card Because now you
get a wave of players that aregoing to come in and beat them,
you know, in terms ofperformance and be able to get
those spots back, but alsothey're kind of going to be
given it in a sense.
but they're also going to thelive.
players are in limbo because thePGA is going to wrap up the
(11:29):
season.
Liv's going to wrap up theseason.
PGA is already talking aboutscheduling for next year.
That's supposed to come out ina couple of weeks and they don't
really want to.
I heard Jay Monahan today talkabout it.
doesn't really want to messwith.
that Was the insinuation hemade.
He's hoping that set.
That doesn't really leave a lotof room, you know, or confidence
in what Liv's going to dooutside of this calendar year.
(11:49):
I mean, there's obviously moneyinvolved, there's tournaments
that have been scheduled, but Ithink those players are in limbo
And, as far as I can tell rightnow, i just think that's a huge
question mark.
So I think the biggest loser iskind of around those players
that are on Liv, because there'sso many implications in terms
(12:10):
of how they get back on tourwhen and if that happens.
Obviously it does sound likeit's going to happen.
There's going to be a mechanismto do that.
But the thing that what I'vebeen trying to read through all
the little bit of talk that'sbeen out there about it with
like Jay Monahan and, is thatthere's going to be a process.
It doesn't sound like it'sgoing to be.
(12:31):
It's going to be great forthose guys.
Aryon (12:34):
Well, see, here's the thing.
you know, and I feel bad forDavid because I think he's going
to get the wrath of my mycounters today, when it really
should be Parker who shout outto Parker, who's training for
the US, and I had no idea whatwas going on with him.
So good job by you, parker, butyou really should be here on
this podcast listening to metalk about how I've been saying
(13:01):
this for the last six months Andunfortunately, david's going to
have to take on that burden.
The Liv players, if they haveto buy their way back onto the
tour, or if they, whatever aregoing to be, are in the exact
same situation then that theywould be in if this merger never
happened.
right, they weren't gettingback on the tour before, and if
(13:22):
it's difficult for them to getback on the tour, then they
wouldn't be back on the tourafter this.
However, there's no way.
there's no way the BGA tour doesthis without the expectation
that they're trying to get thoseplayers back and they're trying
to do it in a way that'smutually beneficial for them as
well.
So I don't see, i think peoplelike Brooks Kepka, dustin
(13:45):
Johnson, maybe not some of theguys on the later end of their
career, but some of these guyswho are still somewhat in their
prime are going to benefit fromthis, because that's to me,
that's the only reason that thePGA tour would do this is to,
you know, unify the game andmake it to where it's
competitive again.
I actually think the guys whoare struggling to get their
(14:12):
cards could potentially win fromthis in some way, because now
there are more, there's morepositions available with all the
tours combined, where I thinkthere's going to be more
opportunities for players toplay in general.
I don't know how they're goingto build this up, but now
they've got three differenttours altogether a lot more
(14:36):
spots.
I don't know, i could be wrongabout that, but I can tell you I
don't think the biggest losersare the guys who took those
major paychecks.
David (14:43):
I mean that's.
The only question is going tobe, how much of that are they
going to get a keep?
because I guarantee you there'sgoing to be a huge penalty.
I mean punishment almost,because I mean Jay Monahan walks
back a lot of what he said thelast.
What year?
two years, just by merging with, effectively, the Saudis, the
(15:04):
PIF.
The one thing he's been prettyconsistent on is the players
that left.
Aryon (15:12):
Correct, but I don't think they're going to have to
forfeit their whole paycheck, sothey're still going to have
more money than, say, someonelike Will Zalatoris, who rumored
to have given up $130 million,or you know.
I wouldn't say Tiger Woods is aloser in any of this, but some
of these other players who weregiven big contracts that didn't
take it.
I, jay Monahan, said that theirloyalty will be rewarded, but
(15:33):
what does that really mean?
David (15:35):
Are they going to?
you know that's an unknownright now.
Yeah, i mean, they definitelyhave some pain involved.
I mean and that came out ofthat players only meet well, not
entirely players only, but theplayers with Jay Monahan, and
sounded like he pretty muchripped into him or exactly that.
Aryon (15:51):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean they were calling forhis resignation.
But I also think winners inthis are going to be the fans in
the end, because I think nowwe're going to get tournaments
again with all the playerstogether.
But yeah, i think I hope theyfind a way to reward the loyalty
(16:12):
in a way that makes sense.
Zach (16:14):
So, jordan, let's get you into this conversation.
Give me your thoughts on JayMonahan and give me your
thoughts on Greg Norman.
Is Jay Monahan?
is he with what he said?
let's kind of turn this intothe 9-11 situation with what he
said about those families.
(16:35):
And then all of a sudden he thePGA tour takes the money.
What are your thoughts?
Jordan (16:42):
on all of that.
First off, i don't know whythat ever happened in the first
place.
I mean, this is hindsight 2020.
Now right, like he said, it atthe time made a lot of sense
because you're trying to givelive any negative press you can
because you're the PGA.
But also I'll give you the bigpicture is I'm waiting for more
(17:04):
information to come out, becausewe're hypothesizing a lot right
now.
What does it mean when JayMonahan says the players will be
rewarded?
Because that's a very loose endright now And it's very like we
have a little bit of insightnow this year.
But like, what does that mean?
(17:24):
Nobody knows what that means.
And is it him?
it is a guy who has zerocredibility right now saying
that he's going to fightendlessly for his players.
But it's a guy who his playersjust yesterday were calling for
his own resignations for.
So the credibility there iskind of out the window of you
say that.
But what do you mean by that?
(17:45):
And how harsh is that penaltygoing to be for rejoining the
PGA?
Really curious to know that.
But also, how are you going toreward your own players?
Are you going to give Rory ninefigures for staying loyal
because he could have goneelsewhere.
We don't have a reported numberor that he ever got a firm
contract.
But let's all face it, he couldhave gotten nine figures right,
(18:07):
no doubt about it, easily 100%.
The Greg Norman thing is, zach.
I remember walking into PureGoth about a month ago and being
like dude there's rumors ofGreg Norman being out the door.
I told you that And it's veryweird that those rumors were
already floating out in theatmosphere before any of this
(18:31):
was kind of out there, and so Iwas kind of like at the time you
just kind of think nothing ofit, because at some point Greg
Norman was always going to goout the window.
From what I've heard, that wasalways the case is he was there
to get it off the ground andthen he was going to go away.
Zach (18:47):
Yeah, we were talking about people and them being in
the know.
Was Phil Mickelson in the knowthis entire time?
I know you and I, you and I,jordan we talked about this in
the office about, like hementioned something at the PGA
championship About that, didn'the?
What exactly did he say again?
Jordan (19:06):
I feel like I don't know exactly because all of this is
now running together that PhilMickelson, at the end of the day
, is looking like a geniusthrough all this.
He said that the PGA was goingto do.
it was best for the PGA at theend of the day.
And now he's correct.
And so we all crucified PhilMickelson.
a year ago I mean, the bookcame out he said the Saudis are
(19:28):
scary MFers to deal with or toget in business with.
And now he signs his ninefigure bonus and, like, ends up
on top and is having while everyother golfer is having a
catastrophe on Twitter, phil isending tweets with smiley faces,
so comes out looking lookingpretty great in all this.
Zach (19:49):
Yeah, i agree with that, David.
Let's kind of jump over to Roryreal quick.
Okay, it feels like to me hejust had his press conference
this morning.
Okay, it feels like he is kindof this person that got left out
to dry for the PGA tour And hekind of said that in his press
conference.
He felt like he was thescapegoat.
David (20:11):
And I mean the words he used literally were sacrificial
lamb, sacrificial lamb.
Jordan (20:16):
That's right.
Zach (20:18):
And so what are your thoughts for him?
Do you think?
think that Rory is one of thebigger losers in this whole
situation?
David (20:27):
No, i mean, the one thing Rory has done throughout this
has been kind of exemplifyexactly what the PGA like, the
the ideal image of a leader onthe PGA tour is in terms of a
player and what you want.
He has not stooped down to anylevel, you know, to really go
after live.
He's spoken his mind, he'sspoken it very clearly And he
(20:50):
said what he he does not like.
I thought he had his interviewtoday, was incredibly honest and
was about, i mean, as raw as Ithink we're going to get from
Rory McElroy in an interview,because the guy's just, you know
, he's class man, He is theutmost professional.
I don't think he's a loser.
I mean in some sense, yeah, imean it hurts for him And I mean
(21:13):
he kept talking throughout hisinterview about being, you know,
as an individual, right versussetting that aside and looking
at it from the lens of the PGAtour, you know, as an entity,
from Jay Monahan's perspective,and he's like I understand that,
but then as a, you know, anindividual.
He was talking about how he goes.
There's needs to be someconversations because he was, he
(21:34):
was kind of hung out to dry.
He definitely was a sacrificiallamb in some regards, based on
how the deal went down.
I think that's the only way Iwas ever going to play out.
You know, within the specificcontext of how this actually
happened, but I don't know yetif I would really classify him a
loser.
Right now he's more of asympathetic.
(21:56):
Sympathetic character in all ofthis because he's fighting for
what he feels is right But Ithink most of us felt was right,
at least within the context ofthis argument between Liv PGA,
the Saudis and everything elseyou know and and he did it the
right way.
So it definitely sucks for him.
I mean, i think it's.
(22:17):
There's a lot of interestingthings that came out of that
interview.
Zach (22:20):
Yeah, absolutely Arianne.
what are your thoughts on Roy?
Aryon (22:24):
Yeah.
So I agree with everythingDavid just said.
I think he handled it with theutmost class And I actually
think he is gonna come out ofthis a winner because he's gonna
be looked upon by hiscolleagues as a leader moving
forward because of how hehandled everything.
When he would speak negativelyabout a situation, he did it in
(22:46):
a way I don't wanna say withoutburning bridges.
I mean he was brutally honest,but he's, i think, in the
longterm, when all of this comestogether, he's gonna be a
pivotal part of it movingforward And I think he'll end up
winning.
I looked up Rory's net worthtoday just for the heck of it,
(23:09):
and there were some reports thathe's worth in the hundreds of
millions of dollars, like Ithink I saw one that was like
$200 plus million that he'sworth.
So I don't think an offer fromLiv is gonna change his life
right.
So I don't see him missing outlike some of these other players
potentially did.
But he wants to his whole thingand what's gonna make his
(23:34):
career is his legacy.
And now he's gonna be in aposition where I think, even
though he stated before that,like a leadership role is not
what he wants right now, he willbe looked at as a person who
led in a situation, in one ofthe most troubling situations of
golf, and now he's gonna be putback in a situation where he's
(23:55):
gonna be playing with the bestplayers in the world without any
debate, because everyone's backtogether And if he can continue
to work on his game as anindividual and win, there will
not be any.
There won't be any asterisk onhis resume about the strength of
field or just in general who heis competing against.
(24:15):
He said from the beginning he'swanted to compete with the best
in the world And now, becauseof this, he's gonna be able to
do that And ultimately, like Isaid, if he's able to win again
in the future, this happeninghas enhanced that.
Zach (24:33):
Why don't you just go ahead, arianne, with your
thoughts on Jay Monahan?
Let's go back to him, becauseI've got nothing else on Rory
right now.
Let's talk about Jay Monahan,what you got.
Aryon (24:43):
Okay, jay Monahan we can all agree handled this situation
.
He did not handle thissituation the best way, and I'm
talking about going back acouple of years, right, not just
in the recent time, but evengoing back a couple of years.
However and I can understand Idon't particularly love him.
(25:03):
I don't have a lot of greatopinions on him And I can
understand why a lot of peopledon't.
However, if for somebody whocannot see why he did what he
did, if you look at this from abusiness perspective, there were
very limited options for whathe could have done, and I think
he I don't see a lot of people,unfortunately handling this a
(25:27):
lot better than he did, and whatI mean by that.
If you look at any business,right, when a competitor comes
into the market, you'recompeting against them.
You're gonna be speakingnegatively about that.
But what happens when acompetitor becomes too big?
You buy them out And then you,in a different way than how this
is playing out, you merge withthat competitor that you were
(25:48):
talking trash about for Lordknows how long, and this is in
every type of business And then,all of a sudden, now that
competitor is part of yourproduct And now you have to
speak highly or speak positivelyabout the situation from that
point forward, when you know,two months ago So with Jay
Monahan it's like of course hewas trying to squish live before
(26:11):
it got to be too big saideverything he said to try to
prevent players Now, i don'tthink he handled that part as
well as he should have, but hetried to do everything he could
have to prevent live from beinga problem And that didn't work.
They were too big of a beast.
They had too much funding.
They weren't going away And forhis own survival and his own
(26:33):
company's survival, this was theonly logical step because they
were.
Eventually it was inevitable.
The PGA product was weakbecause of it.
I've said that on severalpodcasts And that's why I knew
this was inevitable.
I just can't believe ithappened so quickly.
But I think Brooks Kepkawinning the PGA championship,
(26:54):
sped the process along becausethat was a.
I thought that was a pretty bigblow.
Jordan (26:59):
Yeah, i.
Maybe it did, Maybe it didn't.
I don't know that.
We're going to know that answerfor a little bit, because they
had been talks for apparentlyseven weeks is what the rumor is
out there.
I don't know that.
Jay Monaghan looks great rightnow.
I know there's plenty comingout.
(27:20):
There's going to be more tocome.
We all know that.
But I don't think you are evergoing to gain the trust of your
players back.
Like you can say it's good forbusiness and everything like
that And like that's cool.
But at the end of the day,you're never going to gain your
players trust back because theyall found out on Twitter And so
(27:41):
like.
While this would never happen, ithink something that could have
happened was, if he felt thathis back was up against the wall
, he could have like I know hewould never do this This is me
just like completely speculatinghere.
He could have left his positionand brought somebody else in to
make the merger and gone out ofhis position as a hero.
(28:01):
So in a way, he did take themoney.
Like you can say whatever youwant.
You can say it's good forbusiness.
At the end of the day, he'smaking more money than he would
have ever made in the history ofhis lifetime, but he could have
gone out a hero.
David (28:16):
Dude, i think we can hold multiple thoughts on our head
simultaneously.
Sure, absolutely, absolutely.
Back to the matters.
Yeah, he's the CEO of a hugeorganization that's going to get
billions of dollars investedinto it.
He's going to get paid to dothat And he basically,
throughout this deal, negotiatedit to where he's in control.
Now, the benefit of that isthat, because he's in control,
(28:37):
the PGA is in control, hisinterests align with the PGA In
terms of running a business as akey executive or a CEO the key
leadership position.
If you're having to massivelychange the direction of the
business if there is a businessreason for it you're going to
leave a lot of people in thedark.
The thing you have to havebuilt up at that point is enough
(29:00):
trust and enough results thatyou are able to make the right
decisions for the company,regardless of what everybody
else thinks, because there'sgoing to be a thousand opinions
and it's never going to be goodfor absolutely everyone.
So I think it turns out how hedid it.
I think that's the only way todo it in that situation.
I think that he's absolutelygoing to be vilified.
(29:24):
In a sense, he's become theRoger Goodell of the PGA.
I mean, everyone hates Goodell,but I want, and everyone he's
so terribly sucks at him Like.
But yeah, he makes the ownersbillions of dollars, he makes
the players, at this point,hundreds of millions of dollars.
The sponsors aren't complaining.
The guy does his job.
The question right now is goingto be is Jay Monaghan doing
(29:50):
that good of a job for the tour,for the players, for the
sponsors?
And that's only going to bearitself out over the next few
months, few years, so far,though, i mean.
I think it's very interesting,though, who has been endorsing
him via statements the last 24hours, and one was Jack Nicholas
(30:13):
, which I find fascinating.
Jordan (30:17):
Zach, I'm going to have a question for you in just a sec
, but I also want to pitch oneother thing here before I,
because I know I've receivedtext from Zach about Jay
Monaghan.
I really want his feedback here.
But you can also be what, ifwe're going to compare
organizations here.
What the players on the PGAtour were pitched was that it
(30:37):
was a player run organizationwhen they didn't go over to live
which is exactly what the NBAdoes with Adam Silver And
overnight it became into a RogerGoodell NFL thing.
When your own players arefinding out about this on
Twitter, it is not a player runorganization.
It was made in the dark.
So what I'm saying is I don'tthere's so many things happening
(30:59):
here, but don't pitch that.
It's a player run organization.
And then you are a united frontagainst live and then handshake
agreement without tellinganyone, even like when Tiger and
no.
David (31:09):
But the interesting thing about it is, though, it's like
it's not any kind of agreementwith, like it's not a merger
with live, it's not an actualyou know it's.
It's that they basically camein, screwed live And took
basically their their soleinvestor, their key investor in
the PIF and brought all thosefunds over in the attempt to be
(31:32):
able to control it.
And the one key that stuck withme the most out of Rory's
interview and that maybe, in myhead, makes me think that at
least what Jay Monahan is sayingis the truth.
There's a lot of informationhe's not telling us, so there
could be a lie, of omission, butwhat he has been telling us was
effectively verified by RoryMcElroy during that interview,
(31:56):
talking about how they want tobe.
Pga wants to be in control ofthe future of golf, and if they
have the key people that aregoing to invest billions of
dollars, regardless of whothey're investing with, they
might as well be in control.
Jordan (32:11):
But they were in control and they didn't evolve.
That's where, no, you can shakeyour head over there.
You were in control, no, theywere not in control.
They were not in control, theyhad to learn because you had the
only, you had the onlyorganization in golf.
Ari, you can't tell me theyweren't in control.
They had PGA to learn, Theywere.
Aryon (32:32):
I'm going to say this too .
This is what I was really happywith.
There's a kudos to Jay Monahanin the sense that he he should
have done it quicker.
He should have done this.
No, you should have evolved thegame.
That's what you had to do wasevolve the game.
The thing is but evolving thegame when you have He did what
every corporate big time CEO did.
Jordan (32:54):
If you can't evolve the game, you buy out the
competition.
Yes, he was going againstunlimited funds, jordan.
Aryon (33:01):
He was going against unlimited funds and people were
leaving and more were going toleave.
eventually, the product, thePGA product, was getting weaker
and weaker and weaker.
Jordan (33:12):
Under his tenure.
Under his tenure.
Aryon (33:16):
So he had to do what he had to do, because now, now, now
he controls live, live is, liveis a brand under this umbrella.
He did not merge with live.
Okay, i mean, i can speak to.
These companies are under thesame, but there's there's no
(33:36):
loyalty.
David (33:37):
What have we said?
What is the wrong thing?
Jordan (33:39):
All you had to do was evolve the game and play your,
pay your players more guys.
This has been on the table for20 years with Greg Norman and
Phil Mickelson.
This has been on the table.
And then, yes, because youunder you can shake your head.
David (33:55):
So you're saying so you're snow, but what you're
saying is that Jay Monahan did abad job and got them in this
position.
Jordan (33:59):
But that doesn't say that Yes, okay, if you don't
evolve.
David (34:03):
He's making a major move to try to fix that.
Jordan (34:06):
Yes.
David (34:07):
I'm going.
We're not going to know theanswer to that question, but I'm
saying that he did make a majorplay to try to reverse course
and put the PGA as a whole andtheir players in a better
position.
The question that we need to bearguing is whether that move is
putting them in a betterposition or not.
Jordan (34:27):
You just use the word you.
You just use the word fix.
You just said he made an errorand he's trying to fix the error
.
Aryon (34:34):
The error.
How long has Jay Monahan been?
Jordan (34:36):
the commissioner Don't know the answer to that.
He didn't really care becausehe also lost plenty, of plenty
of things along the route here.
Aryon (34:46):
So so what I'm saying is I'm not saying the guy's been
the best commissioner in theworld his entire tenure, i'm
saying as it stands right now.
Nobody three years ago thoughtlive was going to become what it
became.
Nobody incorrect, because therumors were out there.
If you thought, but but but butif they, if they did, i promise
you, if they really knew thiswould have been, this would have
(35:08):
been handled differently fromthe beginning.
No, i mean, people can assume,people can guess, but nobody.
People still thought it was ajoke, even when certain players
signed.
And it leads to another pointthat I want to talk about, about
the players who are going toend up benefiting from this and
who got the major paychecks andnow we're going to be able to
come back.
It shows sometimes in life yougot to take risks.
That risk can sometimes not payout.
It sometimes can pay out.
(35:29):
Nobody really knows, and that'sa whole different situation.
But nobody could say forcertain.
Nobody knew how long this livestream was going to go.
The guy could have pulled theplug on it a year into it, like
nobody truly knew.
Greg Norman, for all the thingsthat he does poorly, did help
bring live to a point where itwas becoming a major problem for
(35:49):
the PGA tour.
And, yes, well, jay Monaghandid not handle every step in
this process the correct way.
As the situation stands rightnow, this is what he had to do
to preserve the PGA tour, or toat least not let it drag out as
long, like unnecessarily long,because things were separating
(36:10):
Brooks Kepke winning Liveplayers owning two out of the
four majors is a problem.
David (36:17):
Hold on Back up.
We've only had two majors.
They won one of two.
Aryon (36:20):
They won one of two.
Yes, i'm just saying that.
My whole point on Jay Monaghan,general, is he did not handle
each step of the processcorrectly.
I will give you that.
But in the situation right now,this went on too long.
This should have been done sixmonths ago.
Okay, i thought it was going todrag on for another year.
Truthfully, i didn't think hewas going to cave this quickly.
(36:41):
But this is the right play.
Now he controls the funds, thisunlimited piggy bank of money
that's going to inevitably grow.
The game of golf And I do thinkGreg Norman does deserve a
little bit of credit because hedid help build live into an
entity that was worth mergingwith the PGA tour or under the
same umbrella money.
(37:01):
But this is what Jay Monaghanhad to do.
Do you not think that over thelast week or two, however long
he's been pondering this, hewasn't thinking, like you know,
this is going to.
There's no way I'm going tolook good coming out of this,
like, of course And, yes, moneyis obviously a determining
factor, but people don't like tolook bad, i don't care who.
You are Right.
(37:22):
So this is obviously a majordecision that he had to make.
Money was definitely amotivating factor, but there are
other things to come and play.
If he didn't do this, if hedidn't do this and more players
left, it would just.
It's not good.
Live was just gaining too muchmomentum, in my opinion, and
they had to cut off the head now, and they did.
(37:42):
Now, they control everything.
They control the money.
Jordan (37:45):
They can't live.
Live wasn't gaining momentum.
Their viewership was down.
David (37:49):
That's a thing I like.
It wasn't a problem.
Aryon (37:52):
No but they're weakening the PGA tour is the problem.
They were.
It doesn't matter if they'regetting bigger or if the PGA
tour is getting smaller.
The gap is getting closerregardless.
Every player they take from thePGA tour shrinks that which
still brings them closertogether.
David (38:08):
I don't agree.
I don't agree with that.
I think that I don't agree withthat.
I don't think that the live waswinning.
I mean, the PGA had their ownissues, i mean, but that doesn't
mean that live was winning.
I think that the biggestproblem was that you had court
battles that were getting drawnout That was going to definitely
yes, okay, that would harm thePGA more than live, because live
(38:30):
had deeper pockets due to theSaudis.
I mean, i think a lot of whatwent down the last year, the
fact that the ratings were downfor both enterprises.
The ratings were down foreverything outside of the
masters, and so I mean, and oneof the Hammer Voice Tournament,
one of them was like a 20 yearlow or something in terms of
(38:51):
viewership.
So it's like, okay, the PGA isnot doing great, lives really
not doing great in terms of anykey metrics that you can measure
outside of having an almostbottomless pit of money.
I mean to me and this is whereI do tend to agree with Aron is
I go?
that's why I'm like, if JayMonahan's sitting there going,
hey, i'm about to be defeated,i'm about to lose my job, i have
(39:13):
to do something to save this.
He could have pulled off theOne of the biggest cues we'll
see in our lifetime.
With an organization of thissize and this much forward
facing people.
In terms of just the TV deals,everything else, i'm like he
literally just He destroyed livein one fell swoop.
(39:35):
Whatever they are, the PGAeffectively controls and owns
now almost I can't say owns, butcertainly controls.
The Saudis realized the brandthat is the PGA Tour around the
world And the DP Tour in Europehas at least They watch it, they
like it.
It's survived with the PGA Tourand they certainly aren't
(40:00):
really competing head to headlike Liv was.
Now the Saudis have a betterpartner.
The PGA has the funds forhowever long they need them,
let's be honest.
So I have some misgivings aboutthe fact that we are just
(40:22):
jumping in bed to the Saudis.
I think there's some That's alittle sticky.
That certainly could beinteresting, but I think what he
did actually completelyundermines Liv and is a win for
the, at least for Jay Monahanand the PGA Tour In terms of the
(40:44):
organization.
You are exactly right that it'ssupposed to be a player on
organization, but what's thepoint of Jay Monahan other than
to grow the pool of money andthe opportunity for the players
as well as for the sponsors He'sgot a responsibility to them
too and to be able to make theTour money, even though it's a
501C6.
And he may have just done allof that while he was on the
(41:07):
verge of potentially not evenhaving a job If the performance
continued to suffer the way itwas.
Jordan (41:14):
Yeah, i think I'd prefer he didn't have a job.
if I'm being real, i mean,that's fair.
David (41:18):
He's a pretty terrible creation.
Jordan (41:20):
Yeah, i really.
I don't give Liv too muchcredit.
I think their product wasterrible.
I think this is the best ofboth worlds for both companies
like TwoUnite.
Every report seems to indicatethat neither company one of
their books opened, which willleave that for what it is.
(41:43):
But I think would you guysagree or disagree that in the
long term, this was just theSaudis buying their way into
American professional sports.
Is that really all that it was?
Would you guys agree with that?
I would agree with that.
Aryon (42:01):
I will agree with that.
But, jordan, let me ask youthis If you don't want to give
Liv any credit, why are PGATours ratings down?
Jordan (42:10):
Tiger Woods not being in the picture is a big reason why
There is no Star Factor, whichis why they're having trouble
getting sponsors, which is whythey're having trouble keeping
players on their tour, becauseif the Tiger Effect isn't there,
you don't have individual StarPower anymore.
You can say Jordan's feet iswildly entertaining to watch.
(42:33):
He's not Tiger And I'm sorry,but they do miss that to a huge,
huge degree, because if Tigershowed up at any random
tournament, those ratings wouldskyrocket up, no matter how much
he did, and so would ticketsales.
Aryon (42:48):
Fair enough, But you're telling me that Liv taking what
stars were left.
Why was I mean?
obviously, majors are going toget higher ratings because
they're majors, but everybodyplaying together is leading to
that.
I promise you the ratings werebetter because Liv players
(43:10):
played as well.
They would have been higherthan an average PGA Tour event
regardless.
But you're right, Star Power isdifficult and Liv was picking
off what stars like.
Not all of them, but a lot ofthe stars that were there,
especially some of the morerecognizable names for the older
generation of golfers.
David (43:30):
To prove Jordan's point about Tiger Woods, there's a
couple of things On the parodyin golf.
All these guys are so good Likeright now we may have some of
the most collective best talentwe've ever seen, which is why
we're seeing one guy win atournament, then another guy,
then another guy.
We're seeing some similaritieswithin the top 25 and certainly
(43:51):
within the top 10.
Got a shout out to ScottySchaeffler there.
But you've got so many goodplayers.
The problem is you don't have agreat one, And that's where
Tiger Woods comes in.
What were the biggest eventsthat happened in the golf world
in the last 20 years?
What did they surround?
What were they?
It was Tiger Woods.
Tiger Woods gets in a car crashin California.
(44:13):
Tiger Woods gets hit over thehead by his wife.
Like everything had to do withTiger Woods.
Before that, he was justwinning, winning, winning.
Everyone loved it.
They were paying attention.
He drove the entire ratings ofthe tour, though Mickelson
helped a little bit, but it wasTiger.
He gets hit over the head.
It's news for like a month Andthen his whole personal life is
(44:36):
all over the tabloids, which henever wanted, but he hung around
there.
He comes back.
People love to come backbecause he seemed contrite and
he seemed to work hard to earnpeople's trust back.
Then he gets hurt.
Go down this path further andfurther and further.
The major events in golf forthe last 20 years has been Tiger
with his infidelity, and Tigerwhen he almost died in that car
(44:56):
crash.
Zach (44:58):
Hey, we're going to take a quick break for you guys, just
to give you guys a little bit ofa breather.
This is a fantastic discussion,by the way, but if you guys are
enjoying the pod, please giveit a share, give it a rating.
We're trying to boost ourratings right now for Apple, for
Spotify, for all the otherdifferent platforms and
everything that you guys do forus.
It means genuinely means theworld, so cannot thank you guys
(45:21):
enough.
Jordan, do we want to givewhat's coming up this next week?
I want to be quite honest withyou.
Jordan (45:27):
It's going to be before the podcast, but I don't even
remember that Fantastic, I gotyou All right, cool.
Let's get back into thediscussion though Do you guys
have any issue with where themoney is coming from?
David (45:44):
I don't love it.
I mean there's two sides of methinking about it.
One is the emotional side andthe fact that I, you know, i do
think it's pretty sketch thatthe stuff that they do, granted,
how many products do we buyfrom China?
And yet they continue to havemass genocide and pollute and
(46:05):
all these other things.
We buy stuff from India andthey literally still have a
caste system in existence.
So I mean, i see both sides ofit.
I don't love the fact thatSaudi's in bed with the major
American media company, for lackof a better way to define them.
Jordan (46:22):
Okay.
Zach (46:23):
Well, and also I will say this they're trying to get into
American football.
I don't know if you guys sawthat report as well.
David (46:28):
So that's cool And they're in the Premier League
now, right?
Jordan (46:34):
They are, yep, they are.
Zach (46:35):
Yeah, yeah, i don't know where I'm going with this.
Anyway, sorry.
Jordan (46:40):
Sorry, I'm not about you .
Aryon (46:42):
Well, i'm saying you guys , this is not the first time
that the US has done businesswith Saudi Arabia, it's not the
10th time, it's not the 100thtime, it's the most publicized
time.
I'd say probably, maybe not,maybe.
(47:03):
Just because we're golf fans,we think that it is, but we do.
The United States has so muchbusiness with Saudi Arabia and
all these other countries andnobody says boo and look, i mean
look around at oil, differentthings like that.
And it's just like why, all ofa sudden, now are we going to
make a big deal out of this?
It just doesn't make sense.
(47:24):
So like, do I love it?
No, i mean there's.
I love buying anything Americanmade whenever I can.
But do I think this isdifferent than 95 percent of
everything else?
that the country?
No, yeah.
Jordan (47:39):
Was it a mistake for Monaghan to paint the picture
that it was a bigger deal thanit was?
If we're going off of, thatshould.
Aryon (47:47):
Yeah, again, jay Monaghan did what he had to do.
When you're going up againstthe competitor, especially the
variables Liv was a very, a veryunknown competitor because it
doesn't run like a typicalbusiness runs, you know it
doesn't behave like a typicalbusiness behaves.
(48:07):
It can endure much greaterlosses than a, than a startup
can endure.
So ultimately now he has donethe right thing in Merchant.
Now he just has to make itright for for the players to
hopefully gain their trust back.
I don't disagree with your saywhat you're, with what you're
saying, jordan, about gainingthe the players trust.
(48:28):
But you'll be surprised howquickly people forget things.
And I'll use Tiger Woods as anexample.
I promise you, when all thatstuff came out about what he did
to his wife, there were a lotof fans that turned their back
on him for a time.
And now, as you guys make clearlike he's the number one draw
in every tournament and peopleseem to like I never hear about
(48:51):
that ever anymore.
David (48:53):
We love a comeback story, right Yeah, like so.
Aryon (48:58):
So I don't, you know, i think, if, if Tiger Woods can
gain the trust back of his, ofhis fan, you know, i mean, i
don't I, in 10 years, if JayMonahan is still in the position
that he's in, i don't, i don'tthink he may be looked at as a
hero if this truly grows thegame of golf and if it truly,
especially if he's there in 10years.
David (49:17):
If he's there in 10 years , he's won.
Jordan (49:20):
Oh yeah, he was right.
David (49:21):
Two years He's probably won, but I mean like he's right,
Like he's correct in what hedid in turn.
You know, like obviously itworked.
I shouldn't say correct, Itworked.
If he's there in 10 years, Ifhe's there in two years, then
there's got to be some validreason he's still there.
I think he played it kind ofpoorly.
I think he played too much, toomuch into the emotional card
(49:42):
the last couple of years asopposed to being like OK, great,
we've got a competitor,Wonderful.
You know why don't you guyswatch them and let me know what
you think?
Look at our guys.
They're the best in the world,You know yeah, i 100% agree.
Aryon (49:58):
But he was in a corner and he was scared and he and he
was like shoot, what kind ofmoney are they throwing at these
people?
and it was an unknown enemy.
But, david, you're 100% correct.
If he would have just kind ofDidn't give it yet by getting
gave them so much publicity?
David (50:12):
Mm-hmm, he gave them so much publicity and that's why
you have Greg Norm I mean GregNormson fighting for this, for
what like 30 years practically.
Phil Mickelson you know It'stalked about wanting to change
things up.
They get together.
You get to kind of polarizingpeople within the golf goonie.
Both, like you said, with bigheads, are on, both that, you
know, can really kind of go outand play the PR game, and so how
(50:36):
do you kind of combat that?
by downplaying it, by making itseem trivial.
You know, if you are the personin control, if you're the PJ
Tour and you're in control ofthe golfing world by and large,
live.
Okay, good for them, good luck.
Oh, they want to take ourplayers.
They can have them.
Jordan (50:56):
Zach, i want to get you in here real quick.
You didn't know him.
I do, i do.
I'm surprised you didn't attendtoday, wearing some type of
live gear or something like that.
So, in through all this, can Iget your emotions of?
are you happy, are you sad?
Are you sad that you can'twatch live after 2023?
(51:18):
What are you feeling over there, man?
Zach (51:22):
Look, i haven't said much this podcast, because the
discussion that you guys have isreally good, right.
Obviously, you guys know whatit's, what's coming from this,
and you guys have better insightthan I could give.
That's the reason why I've kindof let you guys kind of take
over on this, on this discussion, and I've been trying to
picture this as somebody thathad just started watching golf,
(51:43):
right, and then live gave theopportunity to kind of shake
things up the way that you playgolf, the ability to wear shorts
and everything like that, andso I'm just The only thing I'm
questioning is that are theygoing to take anything that live
did in regards to how open andfree it was, into this new
(52:03):
league, or is it going strictlyback to the PGA tour?
That's what I'm wondering asthe average golfer who was, just
, like you know, just trying tojust watch some golf and I think
what lived in some of it wasreally really cool, and That's
my question.
That, and that's an open-endedquestion.
I have no idea and I don't knowif anybody knows that answer
yet, but that's just what I'vebeen thinking about.
David (52:24):
I think you got some insight today.
Yeah, they will go ahead, David,i was just gonna say I mean, i
know Rory was basically when hewas being asked about live.
He kind of talked about thelittle little details that he's
been told and It was essentiallyalong the lines of he really
feels that live will go away.
He doesn't want to see a, hehates them.
(52:45):
That was literally in of itself, literally said that.
But in terms of the team aspectof live more Specifically is
where they got into it and andcertainly the gentleman who I
cannot remember his name to saymy life that is in charge of the
, the Saudi PIF, yasser Yasser,thank you.
(53:07):
Anyway, yasser apparently is abig fan of team golf events and
Rory clearly is a fan of moretraditional Golfing venues and
events.
And if it's a team one, thenhe's talking mostly about the
Ryder Cup and the President'sCup.
Right, mm-hmm, was thePresident's Cup, yeah, yeah
anyway, versus kind of the Teamaspect that live went with Over
(53:32):
the course of a season.
So I think there's gonna besome kind of hybrid, but I do
think that in general, liv's notgonna ultimately Go down as
really adding much to theoverall landscape of
professional golf.
That's whack.
Zach (53:45):
I hate that.
That's so dumb to me.
Aryon (53:49):
I don't want all my the players to start wearing shorts
every week.
You know, maybe an event hereor there, but I don't want it
all the time.
I I don't want a bunch of loudmusic playing all the time.
I don't want, you know, golf alot of people like golf because
of the, the relaxation that itbrings, the, the, the therapy
that it brings, and And byplaying music the whole time and
(54:15):
and making it more like ahockey game, it's not going to
give people that satisfaction ifthat's what they're looking for
.
Jordan (54:22):
Yeah, take that, Zach.
It's not gonna give any of ussatisfaction bro.
Zach (54:27):
I Got a lot of satisfaction, but that's just me
.
Okay, here's my final question.
Okay, i think this is a goodway to round it out, unless you
guys have anything else to say.
As an average golfer, what canyou take with all of this
information?
Right, for somebody like me?
I've only been paying attentionand watching golf for the last
year.
(54:47):
What does this mean for thefuture of golf?
For a final concludingstatement Is this a good thing?
Is this a bad thing?
What should I expect leavingthis podcast?
Jordan (55:01):
Cool.
I Think you can expect a lotmore announcements coming up
within a few weeks.
Is it good for the future ofgolf?
like I think Rory said it bestin his press conference today.
Like Saudi Arabia clearlywanted to spend a lot of money
in the game of golf, now, withthe partnership with the PGA
(55:21):
tour, maybe they can spend thatmoney and Allocate it properly,
as opposed to what it was usedto do before, which was
essentially steal people fromtheir tour.
David (55:32):
Yeah, i agree, i agree, i , i want this to be good for
golf, because I am tired of liveand Tend to agree with most
everything Rory has kind ofstated throughout this whole
thing, but I wanted to be good.
The biggest question I have,and the one thing that really
(55:54):
kind of leaves me uneasy,despite me kind of defending Jay
monahan and his decisions andhis, his play in this, is just,
you know, when you become theself-appointed CEO of for-profit
business after being employedby a not-for-profit Company,
even though you're getting paidhandsomely, what, what kind of
(56:17):
money is in it for him?
Jordan (56:19):
Sure valid question.
David (56:21):
I just that leaves me a little bit uneasy.
I think it's Look, man, i'm acapitalist.
I've no problem with you know,going out earning something.
I just feel like Him being theCEO is the part that I'm having
the hardest time with, becauseit certainly is gonna line his
pockets.
Jordan (56:39):
Agreed agreed.
David (56:41):
Yeah, okay, i want it to be a good thing.
I just that that that's the onething that kind of leaves me
uneasy about this.
I think strategically it doesmake a lot of sense based on
what was happening and just thefact that it did seem like There
was maybe some kind of somesome loose ground under the PGA.
But he may have solidified thatwill certainly know.
I want to say yes, i just can'tquite commit.
Zach (57:04):
Yeah, well, and that's and that's the biggest thing is
that you know We're recordingthis a day after the news
dropped.
Obviously, like Jordan saidjust earlier, there's gonna be a
lot of stuff that comes outright over the next, the next
year, right, there's gonna be alot of new announcements about
what's gonna go on with thisbrand new league.
So when those announcementshappen, we will give you the
(57:25):
information on this podcast.
But I've got nothing else.
Jordan, david, do you guys haveanything else?
Jordan (57:32):
No, let's hope the game of golf who goes in the right
direction, that's yeah, it's agreat way for Greg Norman.
In the words of the Mandalorian.
This is the way this is the way.
Zach (57:44):
This is the way.
Well, thank you guys.
Jordan, david, ariane.
Thank you guys so much forbeing on the pod with me.
If you guys are still here, ifyou guys are still listening,
thank you.
Thank you so much.
Leave us a review.
Let's try and get those ratingsup and Keep trying to push this
thing to where we really reallyhope it ends and where we want
it to be.
(58:04):
So, thank you guys so much forlistening.
We will catch you guys in thenext podcast.
You.
Coming up on this podcast.
We have Arianne, we have David,we have Zach and we have me,
jordan, and we are going todiscuss Live PGA and DP World
Tour merger.
Over to the announcements.
Hey everyone, welcome to theannouncements section of the
podcast and thank you forjoining us.
This week we have alreadyreleased a podcast of recapping
(00:24):
the Memorial tournament thatVictor Howlin won.
It's a great recap.
I highly suggest tuning intothat one.
Then Zach on the YouTubechannel released a nine-hole
video that went into a playoff.
It's the first time that hasever happened.
Very entertaining video overthere.
It is the best I've ever seenZach putt on camera.
(00:46):
So very cool video.
This episode today was actuallysupposed to be a putter episode
New slash.
It changed drastically when thePGA and Live and DP World Tour
announced what all is happeningthere, so we canceled the putter
podcast and put this one ininstead.
Finally, over the weekend, zachis going to be releasing an
(01:07):
update on his road to break 80.
There may have been a littlebit of a bump in the road.
I will preview it, no more thanthat, but sometimes bumps in
the road happen on your journeyto break 80.
That'll do it for theannouncements.
Thanks, welcome to the Pure GolfPodcast.
(01:53):
My name is Jordan And in just acouple minutes I will be joined
by David, zach and Ariane as wediscuss our breakdown of the
PGA Live Tour and DP World Tourmerger.
This one is going to be alittle bit edited on some parts
because, as we were meeting,some different news came out
(02:16):
that the Live Tour is notplanning on going anywhere from
an announcement that Greg Normanfinally made, so a little bit
misconstrued there.
As we just continue to wait fordetails to emerge, i think this
is the most fired up I got on apodcast, i think it's.
If you've never heard me getloud before, i definitely get
(02:39):
loud in this podcast because I'mjust, i rate, at one of the
takes that is being made.
So look forward to that.
If you know me at all, itdoesn't happen very often, but
it is a really great podcast.
Something that I will go aheadand say separately before we
join the rest of these guys is Ipeople want to hear my take.
(03:03):
I've gotten that text and phonecall many times in these past
36 hours of would really love tohear your thoughts.
There's a.
This is probably the biggestsports announcement in my entire
life because of it is solayered and there's just so much
depth to what just happened.
I think this is just a massiveannouncement on so many levels.
(03:26):
I think it's going to dictate alot of the future in sports, for
lack of a better term, buyingyour way into the table, and I
don't think Jay Monahan has donea great job navigating this
terrain.
But it's also very easy for meto say, as I sit here giving my
(03:48):
take from an office chair whilehe's got plenty more information
in front of him Do I think thisis best for the best?
Do I think this is the best forthe game of golf in the future?
I actually do.
I think, going forward, this isgoing to be great for the game
of golf, but I don't like how wegot here.
(04:09):
I really, really don't.
I think that kind of getsacross to this podcast ahead.
I don't like how we got here Atall.
I think it's created a lot oftears in the fabric of golf.
I think it's divided a tourfrom its commissioner now And I
actually think in a way, it'sactually divided America in some
(04:31):
ways because of some of thecomments that Jay Monahan made.
He made it very political,didn't need to get political?
In hindsight probably not, andhe probably regrets what he said
.
He claims he went off theinformation that was given to
him at the time.
So so are we right now And wehaven't been given a lot of
(04:53):
information.
So there's a lot more to drop.
I know for a fact more is aboutto drop, but I don't know when
it will be dropped.
So it's kind of like waitingfor a shoot of fall that you
know is going to fall but youdon't know exactly when.
Curious how the media is goingto take some of this, how
they're going to twist it andwhat stance will be taken.
(05:16):
Who's going to be the good guy?
Who's going to be the bad guy?
It's a very unsettled terrainthat we enter, moving forward,
for all that's at stake hereGolf, in the words of Rory, golf
now does.
If the Saudis did want toinvest in the game of golf and
it looks like they did That'sgreat, and now it looks like
(05:40):
maybe we can allocate thosefunds to direct the game of golf
in a very bright way, and thatis very encouraging.
Again, i don't like how we gothere, but those are my initial
takes.
I think more of my takes comethrough in the podcast.
Let's see what happens next.
There's just so much more tohappen, so I will kick it over
(06:02):
to the four of us and we willkind of go from there.
But enjoy the podcast.
It is a very dramatic one,thanks.
Zach (06:13):
Let's start out.
You know what everybody?
Let's start out with a 10 wordsor less to begin this podcast,
because I've gotten a lot of DMsfrom people asking when are you
guys going to talk about this?
I know Jordan has.
We've been in the office andpeople have been asking us as
well.
Jordan, i'm going to let youstart.
Give me 10 words of less foryour first initial reaction with
(06:36):
the PGA live news.
Jordan (06:39):
Oh man, Otter shock.
I'm going to stick it two words.
Otter shock, Farah David.
David (06:49):
Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
Sucks to be Greg Norman.
Zach (06:54):
That's good, arihan.
Aryon (06:57):
This was inevitably going to happen, but faster than I
thought.
Zach (07:02):
My 10 words or less is.
I agree with Arihan for sure,that's my 10 words or less.
Okay, so let's kind of give abrief before we jump into the
discussions.
Who wants to give a briefsummary of what actually ended
up happening, like the final?
we're recording this a full dayafter the news dropped.
(07:24):
Who feels comfortable enough togive a brief summary of what
just happened?
Aryon (07:30):
Arihan, yeah, basically, the PGA tour, the DP World Tour
and live are unified by, we'llcall it, a parent company that
is going to be run by JayMonahan or led by Jay Monahan.
David (07:52):
He'll be the CEO.
Aryon (07:53):
He'll be the CEO And this company will be given funding.
It's not the actual publicinvestment fund?
David (08:04):
No, So basically the public investment fund will be
the investor in this neworganization that's yet to be
named or really told much about.
Jay Monahan is going to be theCEO.
The chairman of the board willbe the gentleman that runs the
PIF and that currently is themain financier of the live tour,
(08:25):
But supposedly the PGA tour ie,Jay Monahan and the PGA tour
will have complete control interms of decision making and
where the funding goes Correct.
Aryon (08:39):
And, as of right now, live still exists as its own
entity, although I'm sure we'llget into this more, but most
people don't think that's goingto last very long.
Zach (08:52):
Interesting.
Okay, fair enough, arihan, i'mgoing to start just initial
reaction.
Who is the biggest winner inthis whole news drop?
Aryon (09:03):
The biggest winners, in my opinion, are the players who
received the large sums of moneyand signed contracts with live
And, as it stands right now,will be, in some way, shape or
form, be allowed to play on thePGA tour, and really it appears
(09:29):
as though they haven't lost muchbut have gained a lot.
As it stands right now, as itstands right now.
Zach (09:34):
Yeah, david, give me the losers of this whole debacle.
David (09:39):
Well, outside of Greg Norman, who looks like he's
about to get shafted in thiswhole deal, because right now,
the big prevailing rumor becausewe don't have a lot of concrete
information is that he's prettymuch going to be gone And the
fact that he was giveninformation five minutes
beforehand that this washappening And yet he is
(10:00):
supposedly running the live tourChairman.
Yeah, you know, i mean that'skind of a problem for him, but I
don't know.
I actually would argue that thebiggest loser right now, or
people that are certainly in theheart in a very strange
position, are really the playerson the live tour.
So I mean, in my opinion, ithink that those guys at this
(10:25):
point they're going to have tobuy their way back into the tour
because there's going to be amajor financial, i think,
penalty for them to actually getback on the PGA tour.
The question is, how much cashhave they really gotten from
those contracts?
What did they really sign?
Aryon (10:40):
So David, you think the biggest losers are the people
who I think are the biggestwinners?
Yeah, I was about to say Prettyclose, man.
David (10:48):
I think that there's going to be a lot coming out
about that.
I mean because they're not justautomatically back on the tour,
right, and it's still this TBD,you know, to be determined as
so far as what they actuallyhave to do to earn the tour
cards back.
So I mean, in a sense, let mepivot The real losers are the
(11:09):
guys that are ranked, like youknow, that are on the cut of
losing their.
they're on the verge of losingtheir tour card Because now you
get a wave of players that aregoing to come in and beat them,
you know, in terms ofperformance and be able to get
those spots back, but alsothey're kind of going to be
given it in a sense.
but they're also going to thelive.
players are in limbo because thePGA is going to wrap up the
(11:29):
season.
Liv's going to wrap up theseason.
PGA is already talking aboutscheduling for next year.
That's supposed to come out ina couple of weeks and they don't
really want to.
I heard Jay Monahan today talkabout it.
doesn't really want to messwith.
that Was the insinuation hemade.
He's hoping that set.
That doesn't really leave a lotof room, you know, or confidence
in what Liv's going to dooutside of this calendar year.
(11:49):
I mean, there's obviously moneyinvolved, there's tournaments
that have been scheduled, but Ithink those players are in limbo
And, as far as I can tell rightnow, i just think that's a huge
question mark.
So I think the biggest loser iskind of around those players
that are on Liv, because there'sso many implications in terms
(12:10):
of how they get back on tourwhen and if that happens.
Obviously it does sound likeit's going to happen.
There's going to be a mechanismto do that.
But the thing that what I'vebeen trying to read through all
the little bit of talk that'sbeen out there about it with
like Jay Monahan and, is thatthere's going to be a process.
It doesn't sound like it'sgoing to be.
(12:31):
It's going to be great forthose guys.
Aryon (12:34):
Well, see, here's the thing.
you know, and I feel bad forDavid because I think he's going
to get the wrath of my mycounters today, when it really
should be Parker who shout outto Parker, who's training for
the US, and I had no idea whatwas going on with him.
So good job by you, parker, butyou really should be here on
this podcast listening to metalk about how I've been saying
(13:01):
this for the last six months Andunfortunately, david's going to
have to take on that burden.
The Liv players, if they haveto buy their way back onto the
tour, or if they, whatever aregoing to be, are in the exact
same situation then that theywould be in if this merger never
happened.
right, they weren't gettingback on the tour before, and if
(13:22):
it's difficult for them to getback on the tour, then they
wouldn't be back on the tourafter this.
However, there's no way.
there's no way the BGA tour doesthis without the expectation
that they're trying to get thoseplayers back and they're trying
to do it in a way that'smutually beneficial for them as
well.
So I don't see, i think peoplelike Brooks Kepka, dustin
(13:45):
Johnson, maybe not some of theguys on the later end of their
career, but some of these guyswho are still somewhat in their
prime are going to benefit fromthis, because that's to me,
that's the only reason that thePGA tour would do this is to,
you know, unify the game andmake it to where it's
competitive again.
I actually think the guys whoare struggling to get their
(14:12):
cards could potentially win fromthis in some way, because now
there are more, there's morepositions available with all the
tours combined, where I thinkthere's going to be more
opportunities for players toplay in general.
I don't know how they're goingto build this up, but now
they've got three differenttours altogether a lot more
(14:36):
spots.
I don't know, i could be wrongabout that, but I can tell you I
don't think the biggest losersare the guys who took those
major paychecks.
David (14:43):
I mean that's.
The only question is going tobe, how much of that are they
going to get a keep?
because I guarantee you there'sgoing to be a huge penalty.
I mean punishment almost,because I mean Jay Monahan walks
back a lot of what he said thelast.
What year?
two years, just by merging with, effectively, the Saudis, the
(15:04):
PIF.
The one thing he's been prettyconsistent on is the players
that left.
Aryon (15:12):
Correct, but I don't think they're going to have to
forfeit their whole paycheck, sothey're still going to have
more money than, say, someonelike Will Zalatoris, who rumored
to have given up $130 million,or you know.
I wouldn't say Tiger Woods is aloser in any of this, but some
of these other players who weregiven big contracts that didn't
take it.
I, jay Monahan, said that theirloyalty will be rewarded, but
(15:33):
what does that really mean?
David (15:35):
Are they going to?
you know that's an unknownright now.
Yeah, i mean, they definitelyhave some pain involved.
I mean and that came out ofthat players only meet well, not
entirely players only, but theplayers with Jay Monahan, and
sounded like he pretty muchripped into him or exactly that.
Aryon (15:51):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean they were calling forhis resignation.
But I also think winners inthis are going to be the fans in
the end, because I think nowwe're going to get tournaments
again with all the playerstogether.
But yeah, i think I hope theyfind a way to reward the loyalty
(16:12):
in a way that makes sense.
Zach (16:14):
So, jordan, let's get you into this conversation.
Give me your thoughts on JayMonahan and give me your
thoughts on Greg Norman.
Is Jay Monahan?
is he with what he said?
let's kind of turn this intothe 9-11 situation with what he
said about those families.
(16:35):
And then all of a sudden he thePGA tour takes the money.
What are your thoughts?
Jordan (16:42):
on all of that.
First off, i don't know whythat ever happened in the first
place.
I mean, this is hindsight 2020.
Now right, like he said, it atthe time made a lot of sense
because you're trying to givelive any negative press you can
because you're the PGA.
But also I'll give you the bigpicture is I'm waiting for more
(17:04):
information to come out, becausewe're hypothesizing a lot right
now.
What does it mean when JayMonahan says the players will be
rewarded?
Because that's a very loose endright now And it's very like we
have a little bit of insightnow this year.
But like, what does that mean?
(17:24):
Nobody knows what that means.
And is it him?
it is a guy who has zerocredibility right now saying
that he's going to fightendlessly for his players.
But it's a guy who his playersjust yesterday were calling for
his own resignations for.
So the credibility there iskind of out the window of you
say that.
But what do you mean by that?
(17:45):
And how harsh is that penaltygoing to be for rejoining the
PGA?
Really curious to know that.
But also, how are you going toreward your own players?
Are you going to give Rory ninefigures for staying loyal
because he could have goneelsewhere.
We don't have a reported numberor that he ever got a firm
contract.
But let's all face it, he couldhave gotten nine figures right,
(18:07):
no doubt about it, easily 100%.
The Greg Norman thing is, zach.
I remember walking into PureGoth about a month ago and being
like dude there's rumors ofGreg Norman being out the door.
I told you that And it's veryweird that those rumors were
already floating out in theatmosphere before any of this
(18:31):
was kind of out there, and so Iwas kind of like at the time you
just kind of think nothing ofit, because at some point Greg
Norman was always going to goout the window.
From what I've heard, that wasalways the case is he was there
to get it off the ground andthen he was going to go away.
Zach (18:47):
Yeah, we were talking about people and them being in
the know.
Was Phil Mickelson in the knowthis entire time?
I know you and I, you and I,jordan we talked about this in
the office about, like hementioned something at the PGA
championship About that, didn'the?
What exactly did he say again?
Jordan (19:06):
I feel like I don't know exactly because all of this is
now running together that PhilMickelson, at the end of the day
, is looking like a geniusthrough all this.
He said that the PGA was goingto do.
it was best for the PGA at theend of the day.
And now he's correct.
And so we all crucified PhilMickelson.
a year ago I mean, the bookcame out he said the Saudis are
(19:28):
scary MFers to deal with or toget in business with.
And now he signs his ninefigure bonus and, like, ends up
on top and is having while everyother golfer is having a
catastrophe on Twitter, phil isending tweets with smiley faces,
so comes out looking lookingpretty great in all this.
Zach (19:49):
Yeah, i agree with that, David.
Let's kind of jump over to Roryreal quick.
Okay, it feels like to me hejust had his press conference
this morning.
Okay, it feels like he is kindof this person that got left out
to dry for the PGA tour And hekind of said that in his press
conference.
He felt like he was thescapegoat.
David (20:11):
And I mean the words he used literally were sacrificial
lamb, sacrificial lamb.
Jordan (20:16):
That's right.
Zach (20:18):
And so what are your thoughts for him?
Do you think?
think that Rory is one of thebigger losers in this whole
situation?
David (20:27):
No, i mean, the one thing Rory has done throughout this
has been kind of exemplifyexactly what the PGA like, the
the ideal image of a leader onthe PGA tour is in terms of a
player and what you want.
He has not stooped down to anylevel, you know, to really go
after live.
He's spoken his mind, he'sspoken it very clearly And he
(20:50):
said what he he does not like.
I thought he had his interviewtoday, was incredibly honest and
was about, i mean, as raw as Ithink we're going to get from
Rory McElroy in an interview,because the guy's just, you know
, he's class man, He is theutmost professional.
I don't think he's a loser.
I mean in some sense, yeah, imean it hurts for him And I mean
(21:13):
he kept talking throughout hisinterview about being, you know,
as an individual, right versussetting that aside and looking
at it from the lens of the PGAtour, you know, as an entity,
from Jay Monahan's perspective,and he's like I understand that,
but then as a, you know, anindividual.
He was talking about how he goes.
There's needs to be someconversations because he was, he
(21:34):
was kind of hung out to dry.
He definitely was a sacrificiallamb in some regards, based on
how the deal went down.
I think that's the only way Iwas ever going to play out.
You know, within the specificcontext of how this actually
happened, but I don't know yetif I would really classify him a
loser.
Right now he's more of asympathetic.
(21:56):
Sympathetic character in all ofthis because he's fighting for
what he feels is right But Ithink most of us felt was right,
at least within the context ofthis argument between Liv PGA,
the Saudis and everything elseyou know and and he did it the
right way.
So it definitely sucks for him.
I mean, i think it's.
(22:17):
There's a lot of interestingthings that came out of that
interview.
Zach (22:20):
Yeah, absolutely Arianne.
what are your thoughts on Roy?
Aryon (22:24):
Yeah.
So I agree with everythingDavid just said.
I think he handled it with theutmost class And I actually
think he is gonna come out ofthis a winner because he's gonna
be looked upon by hiscolleagues as a leader moving
forward because of how hehandled everything.
When he would speak negativelyabout a situation, he did it in
(22:46):
a way I don't wanna say withoutburning bridges.
I mean he was brutally honest,but he's, i think, in the
longterm, when all of this comestogether, he's gonna be a
pivotal part of it movingforward And I think he'll end up
winning.
I looked up Rory's net worthtoday just for the heck of it,
(23:09):
and there were some reports thathe's worth in the hundreds of
millions of dollars, like Ithink I saw one that was like
$200 plus million that he'sworth.
So I don't think an offer fromLiv is gonna change his life
right.
So I don't see him missing outlike some of these other players
potentially did.
But he wants to his whole thingand what's gonna make his
(23:34):
career is his legacy.
And now he's gonna be in aposition where I think, even
though he stated before that,like a leadership role is not
what he wants right now, he willbe looked at as a person who
led in a situation, in one ofthe most troubling situations of
golf, and now he's gonna be putback in a situation where he's
(23:55):
gonna be playing with the bestplayers in the world without any
debate, because everyone's backtogether And if he can continue
to work on his game as anindividual and win, there will
not be any.
There won't be any asterisk onhis resume about the strength of
field or just in general who heis competing against.
(24:15):
He said from the beginning he'swanted to compete with the best
in the world And now, becauseof this, he's gonna be able to
do that And ultimately, like Isaid, if he's able to win again
in the future, this happeninghas enhanced that.
Zach (24:33):
Why don't you just go ahead, arianne, with your
thoughts on Jay Monahan?
Let's go back to him, becauseI've got nothing else on Rory
right now.
Let's talk about Jay Monahan,what you got.
Aryon (24:43):
Okay, jay Monahan we can all agree handled this situation
.
He did not handle thissituation the best way, and I'm
talking about going back acouple of years, right, not just
in the recent time, but evengoing back a couple of years.
However and I can understand Idon't particularly love him.
(25:03):
I don't have a lot of greatopinions on him And I can
understand why a lot of peopledon't.
However, if for somebody whocannot see why he did what he
did, if you look at this from abusiness perspective, there were
very limited options for whathe could have done, and I think
he I don't see a lot of people,unfortunately handling this a
(25:27):
lot better than he did, and whatI mean by that.
If you look at any business,right, when a competitor comes
into the market, you'recompeting against them.
You're gonna be speakingnegatively about that.
But what happens when acompetitor becomes too big?
You buy them out And then you,in a different way than how this
is playing out, you merge withthat competitor that you were
(25:48):
talking trash about for Lordknows how long, and this is in
every type of business And then,all of a sudden, now that
competitor is part of yourproduct And now you have to
speak highly or speak positivelyabout the situation from that
point forward, when you know,two months ago So with Jay
Monahan it's like of course hewas trying to squish live before
(26:11):
it got to be too big saideverything he said to try to
prevent players Now, i don'tthink he handled that part as
well as he should have, but hetried to do everything he could
have to prevent live from beinga problem And that didn't work.
They were too big of a beast.
They had too much funding.
They weren't going away And forhis own survival and his own
(26:33):
company's survival, this was theonly logical step because they
were.
Eventually it was inevitable.
The PGA product was weakbecause of it.
I've said that on severalpodcasts And that's why I knew
this was inevitable.
I just can't believe ithappened so quickly.
But I think Brooks Kepkawinning the PGA championship,
(26:54):
sped the process along becausethat was a.
I thought that was a pretty bigblow.
Jordan (26:59):
Yeah, i.
Maybe it did, Maybe it didn't.
I don't know that.
We're going to know that answerfor a little bit, because they
had been talks for apparentlyseven weeks is what the rumor is
out there.
I don't know that.
Jay Monaghan looks great rightnow.
I know there's plenty comingout.
(27:20):
There's going to be more tocome.
We all know that.
But I don't think you are evergoing to gain the trust of your
players back.
Like you can say it's good forbusiness and everything like
that And like that's cool.
But at the end of the day,you're never going to gain your
players trust back because theyall found out on Twitter And so
(27:41):
like.
While this would never happen, ithink something that could have
happened was, if he felt thathis back was up against the wall
, he could have like I know hewould never do this This is me
just like completely speculatinghere.
He could have left his positionand brought somebody else in to
make the merger and gone out ofhis position as a hero.
(28:01):
So in a way, he did take themoney.
Like you can say whatever youwant.
You can say it's good forbusiness.
At the end of the day, he'smaking more money than he would
have ever made in the history ofhis lifetime, but he could have
gone out a hero.
David (28:16):
Dude, i think we can hold multiple thoughts on our head
simultaneously.
Sure, absolutely, absolutely.
Back to the matters.
Yeah, he's the CEO of a hugeorganization that's going to get
billions of dollars investedinto it.
He's going to get paid to dothat And he basically,
throughout this deal, negotiatedit to where he's in control.
Now, the benefit of that isthat, because he's in control,
(28:37):
the PGA is in control, hisinterests align with the PGA In
terms of running a business as akey executive or a CEO the key
leadership position.
If you're having to massivelychange the direction of the
business if there is a businessreason for it you're going to
leave a lot of people in thedark.
The thing you have to havebuilt up at that point is enough
(29:00):
trust and enough results thatyou are able to make the right
decisions for the company,regardless of what everybody
else thinks, because there'sgoing to be a thousand opinions
and it's never going to be goodfor absolutely everyone.
So I think it turns out how hedid it.
I think that's the only way todo it in that situation.
I think that he's absolutelygoing to be vilified.
(29:24):
In a sense, he's become theRoger Goodell of the PGA.
I mean, everyone hates Goodell,but I want, and everyone he's
so terribly sucks at him Like.
But yeah, he makes the ownersbillions of dollars, he makes
the players, at this point,hundreds of millions of dollars.
The sponsors aren't complaining.
The guy does his job.
The question right now is goingto be is Jay Monaghan doing
(29:50):
that good of a job for the tour,for the players, for the
sponsors?
And that's only going to bearitself out over the next few
months, few years, so far,though, i mean.
I think it's very interesting,though, who has been endorsing
him via statements the last 24hours, and one was Jack Nicholas
(30:13):
, which I find fascinating.
Jordan (30:17):
Zach, I'm going to have a question for you in just a sec
, but I also want to pitch oneother thing here before I,
because I know I've receivedtext from Zach about Jay
Monaghan.
I really want his feedback here.
But you can also be what, ifwe're going to compare
organizations here.
What the players on the PGAtour were pitched was that it
(30:37):
was a player run organizationwhen they didn't go over to live
which is exactly what the NBAdoes with Adam Silver And
overnight it became into a RogerGoodell NFL thing.
When your own players arefinding out about this on
Twitter, it is not a player runorganization.
It was made in the dark.
So what I'm saying is I don'tthere's so many things happening
(30:59):
here, but don't pitch that.
It's a player run organization.
And then you are a united frontagainst live and then handshake
agreement without tellinganyone, even like when Tiger and
no.
David (31:09):
But the interesting thing about it is, though, it's like
it's not any kind of agreementwith, like it's not a merger
with live, it's not an actualyou know it's.
It's that they basically camein, screwed live And took
basically their their soleinvestor, their key investor in
the PIF and brought all thosefunds over in the attempt to be
(31:32):
able to control it.
And the one key that stuck withme the most out of Rory's
interview and that maybe, in myhead, makes me think that at
least what Jay Monahan is sayingis the truth.
There's a lot of informationhe's not telling us, so there
could be a lie, of omission, butwhat he has been telling us was
effectively verified by RoryMcElroy during that interview,
(31:56):
talking about how they want tobe.
Pga wants to be in control ofthe future of golf, and if they
have the key people that aregoing to invest billions of
dollars, regardless of whothey're investing with, they
might as well be in control.
Jordan (32:11):
But they were in control and they didn't evolve.
That's where, no, you can shakeyour head over there.
You were in control, no, theywere not in control.
They were not in control, theyhad to learn because you had the
only, you had the onlyorganization in golf.
Ari, you can't tell me theyweren't in control.
They had PGA to learn, Theywere.
Aryon (32:32):
I'm going to say this too .
This is what I was really happywith.
There's a kudos to Jay Monahanin the sense that he he should
have done it quicker.
He should have done this.
No, you should have evolved thegame.
That's what you had to do wasevolve the game.
The thing is but evolving thegame when you have He did what
every corporate big time CEO did.
Jordan (32:54):
If you can't evolve the game, you buy out the
competition.
Yes, he was going againstunlimited funds, jordan.
Aryon (33:01):
He was going against unlimited funds and people were
leaving and more were going toleave.
eventually, the product, thePGA product, was getting weaker
and weaker and weaker.
Jordan (33:12):
Under his tenure.
Under his tenure.
Aryon (33:16):
So he had to do what he had to do, because now, now, now
he controls live, live is, liveis a brand under this umbrella.
He did not merge with live.
Okay, i mean, i can speak to.
These companies are under thesame, but there's there's no
(33:36):
loyalty.
David (33:37):
What have we said?
What is the wrong thing?
Jordan (33:39):
All you had to do was evolve the game and play your,
pay your players more guys.
This has been on the table for20 years with Greg Norman and
Phil Mickelson.
This has been on the table.
And then, yes, because youunder you can shake your head.
David (33:55):
So you're saying so you're snow, but what you're
saying is that Jay Monahan did abad job and got them in this
position.
Jordan (33:59):
But that doesn't say that Yes, okay, if you don't
evolve.
David (34:03):
He's making a major move to try to fix that.
Jordan (34:06):
Yes.
David (34:07):
I'm going.
We're not going to know theanswer to that question, but I'm
saying that he did make a majorplay to try to reverse course
and put the PGA as a whole andtheir players in a better
position.
The question that we need to bearguing is whether that move is
putting them in a betterposition or not.
Jordan (34:27):
You just use the word you.
You just use the word fix.
You just said he made an errorand he's trying to fix the error
.
Aryon (34:34):
The error.
How long has Jay Monahan been?
Jordan (34:36):
the commissioner Don't know the answer to that.
He didn't really care becausehe also lost plenty, of plenty
of things along the route here.
Aryon (34:46):
So so what I'm saying is I'm not saying the guy's been
the best commissioner in theworld his entire tenure, i'm
saying as it stands right now.
Nobody three years ago thoughtlive was going to become what it
became.
Nobody incorrect, because therumors were out there.
If you thought, but but but butif they, if they did, i promise
you, if they really knew thiswould have been, this would have
(35:08):
been handled differently fromthe beginning.
No, i mean, people can assume,people can guess, but nobody.
People still thought it was ajoke, even when certain players
signed.
And it leads to another pointthat I want to talk about, about
the players who are going toend up benefiting from this and
who got the major paychecks andnow we're going to be able to
come back.
It shows sometimes in life yougot to take risks.
That risk can sometimes not payout.
It sometimes can pay out.
(35:29):
Nobody really knows, and that'sa whole different situation.
But nobody could say forcertain.
Nobody knew how long this livestream was going to go.
The guy could have pulled theplug on it a year into it, like
nobody truly knew.
Greg Norman, for all the thingsthat he does poorly, did help
bring live to a point where itwas becoming a major problem for
(35:49):
the PGA tour.
And, yes, well, jay Monaghandid not handle every step in
this process the correct way.
As the situation stands rightnow, this is what he had to do
to preserve the PGA tour, or toat least not let it drag out as
long, like unnecessarily long,because things were separating
(36:10):
Brooks Kepke winning Liveplayers owning two out of the
four majors is a problem.
David (36:17):
Hold on Back up.
We've only had two majors.
They won one of two.
Aryon (36:20):
They won one of two.
Yes, i'm just saying that.
My whole point on Jay Monaghan,general, is he did not handle
each step of the processcorrectly.
I will give you that.
But in the situation right now,this went on too long.
This should have been done sixmonths ago.
Okay, i thought it was going todrag on for another year.
Truthfully, i didn't think hewas going to cave this quickly.
(36:41):
But this is the right play.
Now he controls the funds, thisunlimited piggy bank of money
that's going to inevitably grow.
The game of golf And I do thinkGreg Norman does deserve a
little bit of credit because hedid help build live into an
entity that was worth mergingwith the PGA tour or under the
same umbrella money.
(37:01):
But this is what Jay Monaghanhad to do.
Do you not think that over thelast week or two, however long
he's been pondering this, hewasn't thinking, like you know,
this is going to.
There's no way I'm going tolook good coming out of this,
like, of course And, yes, moneyis obviously a determining
factor, but people don't like tolook bad, i don't care who.
You are Right.
(37:22):
So this is obviously a majordecision that he had to make.
Money was definitely amotivating factor, but there are
other things to come and play.
If he didn't do this, if hedidn't do this and more players
left, it would just.
It's not good.
Live was just gaining too muchmomentum, in my opinion, and
they had to cut off the head now, and they did.
(37:42):
Now, they control everything.
They control the money.
Jordan (37:45):
They can't live.
Live wasn't gaining momentum.
Their viewership was down.
David (37:49):
That's a thing I like.
It wasn't a problem.
Aryon (37:52):
No but they're weakening the PGA tour is the problem.
They were.
It doesn't matter if they'regetting bigger or if the PGA
tour is getting smaller.
The gap is getting closerregardless.
Every player they take from thePGA tour shrinks that which
still brings them closertogether.
David (38:08):
I don't agree.
I don't agree with that.
I think that I don't agree withthat.
I don't think that the live waswinning.
I mean, the PGA had their ownissues, i mean, but that doesn't
mean that live was winning.
I think that the biggestproblem was that you had court
battles that were getting drawnout That was going to definitely
yes, okay, that would harm thePGA more than live, because live
(38:30):
had deeper pockets due to theSaudis.
I mean, i think a lot of whatwent down the last year, the
fact that the ratings were downfor both enterprises.
The ratings were down foreverything outside of the
masters, and so I mean, and oneof the Hammer Voice Tournament,
one of them was like a 20 yearlow or something in terms of
(38:51):
viewership.
So it's like, okay, the PGA isnot doing great, lives really
not doing great in terms of anykey metrics that you can measure
outside of having an almostbottomless pit of money.
I mean to me and this is whereI do tend to agree with Aron is
I go?
that's why I'm like, if JayMonahan's sitting there going,
hey, i'm about to be defeated,i'm about to lose my job, i have
(39:13):
to do something to save this.
He could have pulled off theOne of the biggest cues we'll
see in our lifetime.
With an organization of thissize and this much forward
facing people.
In terms of just the TV deals,everything else, i'm like he
literally just He destroyed livein one fell swoop.
(39:35):
Whatever they are, the PGAeffectively controls and owns
now almost I can't say owns, butcertainly controls.
The Saudis realized the brandthat is the PGA Tour around the
world And the DP Tour in Europehas at least They watch it, they
like it.
It's survived with the PGA Tourand they certainly aren't
(40:00):
really competing head to headlike Liv was.
Now the Saudis have a betterpartner.
The PGA has the funds forhowever long they need them,
let's be honest.
So I have some misgivings aboutthe fact that we are just
(40:22):
jumping in bed to the Saudis.
I think there's some That's alittle sticky.
That certainly could beinteresting, but I think what he
did actually completelyundermines Liv and is a win for
the, at least for Jay Monahanand the PGA Tour In terms of the
(40:44):
organization.
You are exactly right that it'ssupposed to be a player on
organization, but what's thepoint of Jay Monahan other than
to grow the pool of money andthe opportunity for the players
as well as for the sponsors He'sgot a responsibility to them
too and to be able to make theTour money, even though it's a
501C6.
And he may have just done allof that while he was on the
(41:07):
verge of potentially not evenhaving a job If the performance
continued to suffer the way itwas.
Jordan (41:14):
Yeah, i think I'd prefer he didn't have a job.
if I'm being real, i mean,that's fair.
David (41:18):
He's a pretty terrible creation.
Jordan (41:20):
Yeah, i really.
I don't give Liv too muchcredit.
I think their product wasterrible.
I think this is the best ofboth worlds for both companies
like TwoUnite.
Every report seems to indicatethat neither company one of
their books opened, which willleave that for what it is.
(41:43):
But I think would you guysagree or disagree that in the
long term, this was just theSaudis buying their way into
American professional sports.
Is that really all that it was?
Would you guys agree with that?
I would agree with that.
Aryon (42:01):
I will agree with that.
But, jordan, let me ask youthis If you don't want to give
Liv any credit, why are PGATours ratings down?
Jordan (42:10):
Tiger Woods not being in the picture is a big reason why
There is no Star Factor, whichis why they're having trouble
getting sponsors, which is whythey're having trouble keeping
players on their tour, becauseif the Tiger Effect isn't there,
you don't have individual StarPower anymore.
You can say Jordan's feet iswildly entertaining to watch.
(42:33):
He's not Tiger And I'm sorry,but they do miss that to a huge,
huge degree, because if Tigershowed up at any random
tournament, those ratings wouldskyrocket up, no matter how much
he did, and so would ticketsales.
Aryon (42:48):
Fair enough, But you're telling me that Liv taking what
stars were left.
Why was I mean?
obviously, majors are going toget higher ratings because
they're majors, but everybodyplaying together is leading to
that.
I promise you the ratings werebetter because Liv players
(43:10):
played as well.
They would have been higherthan an average PGA Tour event
regardless.
But you're right, Star Power isdifficult and Liv was picking
off what stars like.
Not all of them, but a lot ofthe stars that were there,
especially some of the morerecognizable names for the older
generation of golfers.
David (43:30):
To prove Jordan's point about Tiger Woods, there's a
couple of things On the parodyin golf.
All these guys are so good Likeright now we may have some of
the most collective best talentwe've ever seen, which is why
we're seeing one guy win atournament, then another guy,
then another guy.
We're seeing some similaritieswithin the top 25 and certainly
(43:51):
within the top 10.
Got a shout out to ScottySchaeffler there.
But you've got so many goodplayers.
The problem is you don't have agreat one, And that's where
Tiger Woods comes in.
What were the biggest eventsthat happened in the golf world
in the last 20 years?
What did they surround?
What were they?
It was Tiger Woods.
Tiger Woods gets in a car crashin California.
(44:13):
Tiger Woods gets hit over thehead by his wife.
Like everything had to do withTiger Woods.
Before that, he was justwinning, winning, winning.
Everyone loved it.
They were paying attention.
He drove the entire ratings ofthe tour, though Mickelson
helped a little bit, but it wasTiger.
He gets hit over the head.
It's news for like a month Andthen his whole personal life is
(44:36):
all over the tabloids, which henever wanted, but he hung around
there.
He comes back.
People love to come backbecause he seemed contrite and
he seemed to work hard to earnpeople's trust back.
Then he gets hurt.
Go down this path further andfurther and further.
The major events in golf forthe last 20 years has been Tiger
with his infidelity, and Tigerwhen he almost died in that car
(44:56):
crash.
Zach (44:58):
Hey, we're going to take a quick break for you guys, just
to give you guys a little bit ofa breather.
This is a fantastic discussion,by the way, but if you guys are
enjoying the pod, please giveit a share, give it a rating.
We're trying to boost ourratings right now for Apple, for
Spotify, for all the otherdifferent platforms and
everything that you guys do forus.
It means genuinely means theworld, so cannot thank you guys
(45:21):
enough.
Jordan, do we want to givewhat's coming up this next week?
I want to be quite honest withyou.
Jordan (45:27):
It's going to be before the podcast, but I don't even
remember that Fantastic, I gotyou All right, cool.
Let's get back into thediscussion though Do you guys
have any issue with where themoney is coming from?
David (45:44):
I don't love it.
I mean there's two sides of methinking about it.
One is the emotional side andthe fact that I, you know, i do
think it's pretty sketch thatthe stuff that they do, granted,
how many products do we buyfrom China?
And yet they continue to havemass genocide and pollute and
(46:05):
all these other things.
We buy stuff from India andthey literally still have a
caste system in existence.
So I mean, i see both sides ofit.
I don't love the fact thatSaudi's in bed with the major
American media company, for lackof a better way to define them.
Jordan (46:22):
Okay.
Zach (46:23):
Well, and also I will say this they're trying to get into
American football.
I don't know if you guys sawthat report as well.
David (46:28):
So that's cool And they're in the Premier League
now, right?
Jordan (46:34):
They are, yep, they are.
Zach (46:35):
Yeah, yeah, i don't know where I'm going with this.
Anyway, sorry.
Jordan (46:40):
Sorry, I'm not about you .
Aryon (46:42):
Well, i'm saying you guys , this is not the first time
that the US has done businesswith Saudi Arabia, it's not the
10th time, it's not the 100thtime, it's the most publicized
time.
I'd say probably, maybe not,maybe.
(47:03):
Just because we're golf fans,we think that it is, but we do.
The United States has so muchbusiness with Saudi Arabia and
all these other countries andnobody says boo and look, i mean
look around at oil, differentthings like that.
And it's just like why, all ofa sudden, now are we going to
make a big deal out of this?
It just doesn't make sense.
(47:24):
So like, do I love it?
No, i mean there's.
I love buying anything Americanmade whenever I can.
But do I think this isdifferent than 95 percent of
everything else?
that the country?
No, yeah.
Jordan (47:39):
Was it a mistake for Monaghan to paint the picture
that it was a bigger deal thanit was?
If we're going off of, thatshould.
Aryon (47:47):
Yeah, again, jay Monaghan did what he had to do.
When you're going up againstthe competitor, especially the
variables Liv was a very, a veryunknown competitor because it
doesn't run like a typicalbusiness runs, you know it
doesn't behave like a typicalbusiness behaves.
(48:07):
It can endure much greaterlosses than a, than a startup
can endure.
So ultimately now he has donethe right thing in Merchant.
Now he just has to make itright for for the players to
hopefully gain their trust back.
I don't disagree with your saywhat you're, with what you're
saying, jordan, about gainingthe the players trust.
(48:28):
But you'll be surprised howquickly people forget things.
And I'll use Tiger Woods as anexample.
I promise you, when all thatstuff came out about what he did
to his wife, there were a lotof fans that turned their back
on him for a time.
And now, as you guys make clearlike he's the number one draw
in every tournament and peopleseem to like I never hear about
(48:51):
that ever anymore.
David (48:53):
We love a comeback story, right Yeah, like so.
Aryon (48:58):
So I don't, you know, i think, if, if Tiger Woods can
gain the trust back of his, ofhis fan, you know, i mean, i
don't I, in 10 years, if JayMonahan is still in the position
that he's in, i don't, i don'tthink he may be looked at as a
hero if this truly grows thegame of golf and if it truly,
especially if he's there in 10years.
David (49:17):
If he's there in 10 years , he's won.
Jordan (49:20):
Oh yeah, he was right.
David (49:21):
Two years He's probably won, but I mean like he's right,
Like he's correct in what hedid in turn.
You know, like obviously itworked.
I shouldn't say correct, Itworked.
If he's there in 10 years, Ifhe's there in two years, then
there's got to be some validreason he's still there.
I think he played it kind ofpoorly.
I think he played too much, toomuch into the emotional card
(49:42):
the last couple of years asopposed to being like OK, great,
we've got a competitor,Wonderful.
You know why don't you guyswatch them and let me know what
you think?
Look at our guys.
They're the best in the world,You know yeah, i 100% agree.
Aryon (49:58):
But he was in a corner and he was scared and he and he
was like shoot, what kind ofmoney are they throwing at these
people?
and it was an unknown enemy.
But, david, you're 100% correct.
If he would have just kind ofDidn't give it yet by getting
gave them so much publicity?
David (50:12):
Mm-hmm, he gave them so much publicity and that's why
you have Greg Norm I mean GregNormson fighting for this, for
what like 30 years practically.
Phil Mickelson you know It'stalked about wanting to change
things up.
They get together.
You get to kind of polarizingpeople within the golf goonie.
Both, like you said, with bigheads, are on, both that, you
know, can really kind of go outand play the PR game, and so how
(50:36):
do you kind of combat that?
by downplaying it, by making itseem trivial.
You know, if you are the personin control, if you're the PJ
Tour and you're in control ofthe golfing world by and large,
live.
Okay, good for them, good luck.
Oh, they want to take ourplayers.
They can have them.
Jordan (50:56):
Zach, i want to get you in here real quick.
You didn't know him.
I do, i do.
I'm surprised you didn't attendtoday, wearing some type of
live gear or something like that.
So, in through all this, can Iget your emotions of?
are you happy, are you sad?
Are you sad that you can'twatch live after 2023?
(51:18):
What are you feeling over there, man?
Zach (51:22):
Look, i haven't said much this podcast, because the
discussion that you guys have isreally good, right.
Obviously, you guys know whatit's, what's coming from this,
and you guys have better insightthan I could give.
That's the reason why I've kindof let you guys kind of take
over on this, on this discussion, and I've been trying to
picture this as somebody thathad just started watching golf,
(51:43):
right, and then live gave theopportunity to kind of shake
things up the way that you playgolf, the ability to wear shorts
and everything like that, andso I'm just The only thing I'm
questioning is that are theygoing to take anything that live
did in regards to how open andfree it was, into this new
(52:03):
league, or is it going strictlyback to the PGA tour?
That's what I'm wondering asthe average golfer who was, just
, like you know, just trying tojust watch some golf and I think
what lived in some of it wasreally really cool, and That's
my question.
That, and that's an open-endedquestion.
I have no idea and I don't knowif anybody knows that answer
yet, but that's just what I'vebeen thinking about.
David (52:24):
I think you got some insight today.
Yeah, they will go ahead, David,i was just gonna say I mean, i
know Rory was basically when hewas being asked about live.
He kind of talked about thelittle little details that he's
been told and It was essentiallyalong the lines of he really
feels that live will go away.
He doesn't want to see a, hehates them.
(52:45):
That was literally in of itself, literally said that.
But in terms of the team aspectof live more Specifically is
where they got into it and andcertainly the gentleman who I
cannot remember his name to saymy life that is in charge of the
, the Saudi PIF, yasser Yasser,thank you.
(53:07):
Anyway, yasser apparently is abig fan of team golf events and
Rory clearly is a fan of moretraditional Golfing venues and
events.
And if it's a team one, thenhe's talking mostly about the
Ryder Cup and the President'sCup.
Right, mm-hmm, was thePresident's Cup, yeah, yeah
anyway, versus kind of the Teamaspect that live went with Over
(53:32):
the course of a season.
So I think there's gonna besome kind of hybrid, but I do
think that in general, liv's notgonna ultimately Go down as
really adding much to theoverall landscape of
professional golf.
That's whack.
Zach (53:45):
I hate that.
That's so dumb to me.
Aryon (53:49):
I don't want all my the players to start wearing shorts
every week.
You know, maybe an event hereor there, but I don't want it
all the time.
I I don't want a bunch of loudmusic playing all the time.
I don't want, you know, golf alot of people like golf because
of the, the relaxation that itbrings, the, the, the therapy
that it brings, and And byplaying music the whole time and
(54:15):
and making it more like ahockey game, it's not going to
give people that satisfaction ifthat's what they're looking for
.
Jordan (54:22):
Yeah, take that, Zach.
It's not gonna give any of ussatisfaction bro.
Zach (54:27):
I Got a lot of satisfaction, but that's just me
.
Okay, here's my final question.
Okay, i think this is a goodway to round it out, unless you
guys have anything else to say.
As an average golfer, what canyou take with all of this
information?
Right, for somebody like me?
I've only been paying attentionand watching golf for the last
year.
(54:47):
What does this mean for thefuture of golf?
For a final concludingstatement Is this a good thing?
Is this a bad thing?
What should I expect leavingthis podcast?
Jordan (55:01):
Cool.
I Think you can expect a lotmore announcements coming up
within a few weeks.
Is it good for the future ofgolf?
like I think Rory said it bestin his press conference today.
Like Saudi Arabia clearlywanted to spend a lot of money
in the game of golf, now, withthe partnership with the PGA
(55:21):
tour, maybe they can spend thatmoney and Allocate it properly,
as opposed to what it was usedto do before, which was
essentially steal people fromtheir tour.
David (55:32):
Yeah, i agree, i agree, i , i want this to be good for
golf, because I am tired of liveand Tend to agree with most
everything Rory has kind ofstated throughout this whole
thing, but I wanted to be good.
The biggest question I have,and the one thing that really
(55:54):
kind of leaves me uneasy,despite me kind of defending Jay
monahan and his decisions andhis, his play in this, is just,
you know, when you become theself-appointed CEO of for-profit
business after being employedby a not-for-profit Company,
even though you're getting paidhandsomely, what, what kind of
(56:17):
money is in it for him?
Jordan (56:19):
Sure valid question.
David (56:21):
I just that leaves me a little bit uneasy.
I think it's Look, man, i'm acapitalist.
I've no problem with you know,going out earning something.
I just feel like Him being theCEO is the part that I'm having
the hardest time with, becauseit certainly is gonna line his
pockets.
Jordan (56:39):
Agreed agreed.
David (56:41):
Yeah, okay, i want it to be a good thing.
I just that that that's the onething that kind of leaves me
uneasy about this.
I think strategically it doesmake a lot of sense based on
what was happening and just thefact that it did seem like There
was maybe some kind of somesome loose ground under the PGA.
But he may have solidified thatwill certainly know.
I want to say yes, i just can'tquite commit.
Zach (57:04):
Yeah, well, and that's and that's the biggest thing is
that you know We're recordingthis a day after the news
dropped.
Obviously, like Jordan saidjust earlier, there's gonna be a
lot of stuff that comes outright over the next, the next
year, right, there's gonna be alot of new announcements about
what's gonna go on with thisbrand new league.
So when those announcementshappen, we will give you the
(57:25):
information on this podcast.
But I've got nothing else.
Jordan, david, do you guys haveanything else?
Jordan (57:32):
No, let's hope the game of golf who goes in the right
direction, that's yeah, it's agreat way for Greg Norman.
In the words of the Mandalorian.
This is the way this is the way.
Zach (57:44):
This is the way.
Well, thank you guys.
Jordan, david, ariane.
Thank you guys so much forbeing on the pod with me.
If you guys are still here, ifyou guys are still listening,
thank you.
Thank you so much.
Leave us a review.
Let's try and get those ratingsup and Keep trying to push this
thing to where we really reallyhope it ends and where we want
it to be.
(58:04):
So, thank you guys so much forlistening.
We will catch you guys in thenext podcast.
You.
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