October 24, 2025 • 51 mins
Well, have the lambs stopped screaming? Preston and Carson delve back into the world of horror with a detailed discussion on the classic film, Silence of the Lambs! They explore the fear-inducing elements, the acclaimed performances by Anthony Hopkins and Jodie Foster, the historical inspirations behind the film, and their personal reactions.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Preston (00:19):
Welcome into Zoll Pod.
I am one of your hosts, PrestonMoore.
Joined by my co-host CarsonTerrell.
Carson, how are you doingtonight?
Carson (00:29):
It is a spooky, spooky night in October and I have all
the lights on and for goodreason because the movie we're
about to talk about today mademe scared of the dark again in
the worst way, but I'm happy totalk about it.
This is, a movie that I knowboth of us.
Haven't seen, and it's been funto tell everybody.
(00:51):
Try to not tell everybody thatwe we're watching this movie,
but also I told like five peopleand everyone's like, oh my gosh,
you haven't seen this movie.
But yeah, this is gonna be a funepisode.
I just have a feeling.
Preston (01:02):
It, it's funny what you texted me right after you
finished, and you were like, I'mgonna go turn on all the lights
in my apartment right nowbecause I just watched this
movie.
So for those of you who aretuning in today, we are talking
Silence of the Lambs, one of thegreat, horror thriller movies of
all time.
Neither of us had seen it.
This is something that both ofus kind of want to do with this
(01:23):
podcast as a whole we'll talkabout a little bit later, but,
watching movies that.
of us have seen or maybe showingeach other movies that the other
one has seen.
Um, and just kind of dissectingthem and especially some of
these, classics, you know, likeSilence of the Lambs, some of
these great movies that are sopopular and so just embedded
(01:44):
into the pop culture zeitgeistfor the last, you know, 30, 35
years or so.
That, I mean, we've even got, I,I'll talk about this later, but
We've even got, the president ofthe United States brings up
Hannibal Lecter and his speechesall the time, and now having
seen.
The movie, I am even morebewildered by the fact that the
(02:04):
president likes to bring up thelate great Hannibal Lecter, as
he says.
but all that to say, it's a bigmovie.
It's been around for a long timeand it was one of, it still is
one of, the greatest horrorthriller movies of all time.
And it's right around, the righttime of year to be talking about
this late October spooky seasonin full swing.
(02:26):
Carson, I.
I just kind of to start thingsoff, I love this movie.
I loved it.
I absolutely loved it.
I know you did too.
And I'm was FI found myselfsaying What took you so long to
watch this movie?
I just found myself thinking, Ican't believe I took this long.
Like this thing is of the bestI've ever seen immediately.
Carson (02:52):
And it's crazy too, like I was just as you were doing
that first bit there, I waslike, okay, I know there's the
IMDB.
Greatest a hundred movies listwhere, you know, not an exact
science, but there's a lot ofreviews on there.
And this movie is almost in thetop 20.
It's number 22 on IMD B'S topmovie list.
(03:14):
So I have a feeling that we'regonna find some other movies on
here that both of us haven'tseen or one of us really, really
enjoys and wants to share withthe other person.
Uh, but that being said.
Back to the movie itself.
Yes.
I felt the exact same way.
Especially, you know, when I wasfirst texting you after, like,
the third act of this movie isone of the most insane things
(03:36):
I've ever like, and also like,just from a technical
perspective, like this moviestarts out and you're like, oh,
this is like a nice, like chill.
Like she's just running on the,the FI training course.
We get like.
I, it might be like a a fiveminute intro, full credits, and
I was like, I don't think.
(03:58):
Our attention spans couldwithstand this type of intro in
2025.
And it made me sad because it'slike full credits and full and
that was when I was like, when Isaw Howard Shore pop up, I was
like, wait a minute, you meanLord of the Rings Howard Shore?
And I, oh, and like all thelittle strings, string music in
this movie, it was just like,yes.
(04:19):
And it's like all the puzzlepieces were clicking together.
Much as the mystery of thismovie clicks together.
And also having watched, trueDetective night country, with
Jodi Foster last year or twoyears ago.
It was like so cool to see herliterally 30 years ago, in this
mystery kind of role, and thenlike in the H-B-H-B-O show all
(04:43):
this time later, doing a similarbut.
Very different type of lawenforcement role.
And it's funny how this startsout.
I'm almost just like, oh, likewe're, it's this gonna be a nice
little drama.
Like I guess I was expecting'cause I've heard so much about
this movie, I was expecting thismassive hook and it's kind of
insane how it gets away withbeing like this chill kind of
(05:04):
fall atmosphere.
Like I was kind of.
Preston (05:06):
yeah.
Carson (05:07):
It caught me off guard in the best way.
Like, I don't know if that's howyou felt about the movie, like
it took its time to get into it,but by the time it gets to the
one scene, and we'll talk aboutit later, you're like, oh, now I
know what this movie's about.
But then it keeps one uppingitself I don't know if that's
how you felt like the scriptwas, but it's simultaneously
like calm and cool delivery, butlike the actual.
(05:28):
Stuff in the script is soheightened and so good that it
stresses you out and that thelevels just rise.
The whole movie man.
It be truly becomes like reallygood thriller.
Preston (05:38):
It does, and you talk about the way that it continues
to escalate and those levelsrising as it goes.
One thing I'll never forget,when I was in journalism school,
one of my first professors, hehad this idea of gold coins,
right?
And that's what he called kindof just little nuggets that you
would drop in your writingwithin a story that kind of
brought us back into it, broughtus back to engaged into whatever
(06:01):
you're writing, and when we wereworking on packages, he would
say like, this is where you'regonna, you need to drop a gold
coin somewhere here becauseyou're gonna lose us over this
time.
Now, obviously.
In a journalism package, in abroadcast news package, you
know, you're looking at 90seconds, maybe, you know, up to
three, four minutes if it's along form one.
But even in writing, you'rethinking about that stuff as
(06:21):
well when you're writingarticles.
In my experience, I think ofthat gold coin analogy all the
time in film, whenever I'mwatching films, and I think what
Silence of the Lambs does reallywell is it takes this idea of
the gold coins.
You talked about that slowbeginning.
I say slow, it's just kind ofcalm.
(06:42):
It's a calm fall atmosphere.
You're not really thinking aboutall of the things that it's
gonna become.
Even 35 years later.
We're watching it after releaseand we know what we're getting
into.
We know what this movie's about.
We know that this is a horrorthriller movie, but at the same
time, you know.
In this opening phase of themovie, we're in this beginning
(07:05):
first, 20, 30 minutes wherewe're invested and we're signed
up for it.
We're gonna give it a chance asan audience member who has not
seen it, you're gonna give themovie a chance for 20, 30
minutes and it takes its timegetting slow.
And then as it needs toescalate, as it needs to
involve, some of those goldcoins as it needs to.
Invoke some of those scenes asit needs to just give you some
(07:27):
of these jaw dropping moments ormoments where your eyes become
glued to the screen and youdon't even realize that they're
glued to the screen.
It does that, and it does thatin such great timing throughout
the script that whole thing, bythe time it's finished, you
talked about that third act,you're on the edge of your seat.
You cannot keep your eyes offthe screen.
(07:48):
By the time it's finished, youlook back and you're like.
That was, that was And you thinkabout every single part of the
narrative, and you're like, Idon't know what I would take out
of that, if I would takeanything out of that, because it
was just.
The exact way that it needed tobe.
And you look back on it and it'sabsolutely fantastic.
And so to your point, in termsof the way that it escalates and
(08:11):
continues getting better you canlook at so many moments before
the third act even begins.
You know, there was a momentwhen I realized we were in the
third act and I was like, oh.
Now it's, like, this is, is nowgonna be good.
Like, it's been fantastic.
But now we're into the third actwhere, every movie is, gonna
really hit its home runs.
(08:32):
The realization of like, this isthe third act, That means that
the entire first and second actwere as good as it was just now.
All of that hitting me.
Was really a moment whenever Irealized just how special this
movie was going to be.
And obviously the third actknocks it outta the park.
But the beginning and themiddle, I mean, it's a very
(08:52):
tight story and it has so many,of those little gold coins of
those moments that you're justlike, wow.
Like that really just leaves youspeechless and surprises you.
There were a lot of surprises inthis movie for me, again, which.
something that I think maybewe've taken for granted, I don't
know, something we don't reallyget in 2025
Carson (09:15):
Yes.
Preston (09:16):
there were moments that I did not expect, and that's not
even to say that a lot of thepredictable movies I've seen the
modern era aren't good.
There's plenty of good moviesthat I can predict what's gonna
happen next the entire time.
But, when a movie can catch youoff guard in so many little
ways.
The way that Silence of theLambs did for me, it's a credit
(09:36):
to it.
Carson (09:38):
Totally.
And that reminds me ofsomething.
Speaking of your little goldcoin analogy, it's like in um,
in.
Like a screenwriting analogy islike the best surprises are the
most obvious ones that are likeexecuted in a way that makes it
so believable in the world thatit's inhabiting.
(09:58):
And I remember texting you lastnight too, of like, oh my gosh,
this movie got us like two timeswith.
The switcheroo thing once whenHannibal Lecter gets out of, his
prison cell after he'stransferred, and a number of
other things happen.
And it does the bait and switchwith him actually, being the
(10:19):
person in the ambulance.
And then also again at the endwhen, you know it's coming that
they're not, she, that the FBIis not gonna be in the right
house and that she's gonna be inthe house, but like, your body
like, just feels like, oh mygosh.
Well, what I don't know how thisis possible'cause the editing
gets you so locked into like thestory that you start to forget.
(10:41):
The little details ofcontinuity.
And that's what the best moviesdo is they make you forget about
the stupid little bits ofcontinuity and you buy into
every twist and turn and thenyou're still surprised.
And that movie, or this movie isa perfect example of that.
And it could have beencompletely over the top and it
could have been completelycheesy, but like from the first
(11:04):
introduction of Anthony Hopkins,I knew some of the most stuff
that we've seen from this movieis like these closeup shots that
everybody talks about of like,it kind of goes back to like the
Kubrick stare of like StanleyKubrick movies.
Like, it makes me think of likeThe Shining and other things
where, you know, someone'slooking down the lens, but when
I actually saw the first closeupof Anthony Hopkins in this
(11:26):
movie, I was like, oh my gosh,this is terrifying.
Um,
Preston (11:30):
is
Carson (11:31):
and
Preston (11:32):
this is what it's
Carson (11:33):
this is what everyone's talking about.
Preston (11:34):
this is, this is
Carson (11:36):
And it's, it's, it's,
Preston (11:37):
yeah.
Carson (11:38):
and it's, it's like shocking that like it could
still do that to me.
Even though, like I've seen thaton Twitter a million different
times.
People in replies like, youknow, memeing around with this
image for collectively theexistence of the internet.
This has been thrown around.
But then like seeing it incontext, like changes everything
and I was just so.
(11:59):
Enamored by this, like how heplayed this character, the
writing, like watching theirdynamic, him and, the Clarice
character Jodi Foster, likedevelop, like, it's sort of like
this weird, like they're so,they're both like interested in
each other's goals and like,what's going on and like, she
(12:20):
needs answers, but like he.
Is obviously imprisoned and likejust wants to like pick her mind
and manipulate her and like bemaniacal in the situation.
And it's like so fascinating towatch that develop.
It's like kind of like a darkcomedy for a bit, but then all
of a sudden.
He gets transferred and all thisstuff happens with him and
(12:40):
you're like, oh yeah, he hasalso tricked me.
And he is definitely a serialkiller.
And you're like, it gets youtoo.
Like you kind of fall for his,the quid pro quo of it all of
like, oh, you, you need toanswer this now.
And like, you feel yourself kindof lulling into that.
Preston (12:55):
Yeah.
Carson (12:56):
It's just a fascinating back and forth.
Like I was just so captivated byeach of their scenes and
starting off walking down thatlong hallway.
And I think he's not even facingthe camera, right?
Like he's at the back of thewall.
I can't remember if he's,painting or doing one of those
drawings or whatever he isdoing, but the whole
introduction scene just waslike, okay, I am sitting up in
(13:17):
my chair now.
Need to lock in and figure outwhat's going on with this movie.
And it really, it never reallylet up.
Preston (13:24):
You talk about, Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter.
That scene I was texting afriend of mine and I watched
this on Sunday and so he wastexting me a little bit about
fantasy football and stuff Itold him, I was like, i'm not
watching the game right now.
I'm actually, I'm watchingSilence of the Lambs.
It's my first time.
And I had texted him, I waslike, I just, Hannibal's.
(13:46):
First scene just happened.
And, he said, and I quote, putthe fucking phone down and pay
attention.
We stopped talking footballright then and there.
And I was paying attentionobviously before, but, I just
wanted to check what he wassaying.
And even when I had to go to thebathroom and let my dogs out in
the middle of the movie.
I texted him again and I justsaid, bathroom break.
(14:06):
This is amazing.
And he said, again, put thephone down.
And so, I just thought that wasreally funny because he knows,
he works in Hollywood and he's areally, great guy and he knows
movies better than anybody thatI know.
And so, that experience,especially, telling him,
Hannibal's just came on screenfor the first time he knew, and,
when you're watching that sceneis unbelievable.
(14:30):
And that's when it really, Ifeel like the movie really hooks
you in.
And from then on it's, it doesnot let you go at all, from that
moment on.
Not that it lets you go in thebeginning, but you do have this
kind of calm sort ofintroduction that.
You can easily forget whatyou're getting into, what you
got into with this movie whenyou're in the intro and then
(14:51):
whenever he comes on screen andyou hear Anthony Hopkins and his
performance, just the couplingof his dialogue, his writing,
what the script does for him andhis delivery is.
Truly haunting.
It's a perfect storm because thescript does such a great job at
(15:15):
characterizing Hannibal as this,you know, obviously he's a
cold-blooded killer, but wedon't see necessarily that of
him for a little while, and Ithink that's
Carson (15:27):
That's what I was trying to say before.
Yeah.
Preston (15:30):
Right.
We don't see that side of himreally until the second half of
the second act.
I would say maybe roughly around
Carson (15:37):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (15:38):
And so up until that point, you really get to
characterize the guy Himself andhe's a creep.
And, and we get that.
And you know, we, we, it's saidaloud that he's a cannibal.
It's said aloud that he's in thesmack security prison for a
reason and all of those things.
But we're, we get to see him asa psychiatrist, as an insane
(15:59):
psychiatrist, like an insanelygood psychiatrist who's just
like reading every single detailand all the minutia of his
conversations With Clarice, youget all of that and, the
coupling of the way that theywrite that and the way that
Anthony Hopkins plays it perfectand it draws you into his
(16:19):
character.
So.
much.
He's magnetic on the screen.
He is absolutely
Carson (16:26):
Yes.
Preston (16:27):
magnetic.
And it, I mean, that's why hewon an Oscar for it.
He was one of five Oscar winsfor this movie, one of the
others being Best Riding.
That, that script won thatscreenplay, won an Oscar as well
as did the director, JonathanDem and Jodie Foster.
And then of course it wins.
(16:48):
picture too.
So, yeah, it deserved all ofthose.
And I believe I read that themovie came out over a year
before that Oscars happened.
Like it was a February release.
Carson (16:59):
because yes, I was just looking at, before this, taking
some notes and like looking uporiginal 1991, reviews, it's
like all the, in the newspapers,which is just fun to go on, on,
on.
New York Times archives or LosAngeles Times archives and like,
you had to look at an archivedarticle and it's kind of really
(17:19):
funny as a concept, uh,
Preston (17:22):
Because
Carson (17:23):
can't just like find the article right away.
Preston (17:25):
We didn't
Carson (17:25):
Yeah,
Preston (17:26):
weren't on the letterbox back then.
Carson (17:28):
no.
Like people weren't going outand, rating it.
With one sentence and giving ita, a zinger with a joke
immediately leaving the, thetheater and buying the, the
limited edition popcorn bucketon the way out.
We used to be a proper country.
Preston (17:44):
Four and a half out of five because no post credit
scene.
Carson (17:47):
No post courtesy.
No, but like what's fascinatingtoo is like, it, it's just so
funny reading these.
Not funny, but like, it'sinteresting to read these
reviews and the, there's like adisclaimer at the bottom of the
new
Preston (18:02):
before the Oscars.
Carson (18:03):
Yeah, like so far in advance, like this New York
Times, February 14th, 1991 andit's, it, this disclaimer is so
funny because Silence of theLambs, which has been rated R.
Under 17 requires accompanyingparent or adult.
Includes some graphic stillpictures of battered bodies.
That's it.
That's it.
Nothing else.
Nothing.
That's, that's the disclaimer.
(18:25):
And I'm like, that's freakingincredible.
Like there used to be like, notreally information that was
like, now there's like sitesthat like break down the every
single scene of a movie of likewhat?
What's in it?
What's okay, you know, whatever.
And like, can you imagine beinglike,
Preston (18:42):
before you go
Carson (18:43):
Can you imagine being 15, 16, back in the day sneaking
into this movie, like buying aticket?
I don't know what else was outthat weekend, but like buying a
ticket for a different movie andsneaking into this movie and
being like, it's probably adefining moment of your teenage
existence is sneaking into thismovie because you'd be like, oh
my gosh, we did it.
We got away with the heist.
Preston (19:03):
Yeah.
And this movie of All Mo, Imean, my goodness, just the
experience of it all.
We've talked a lot about AnthonyHopkins', Hannibal Lecter, and
truly his performance, propelsthe whole thing.
I can't say Carrie actually,because of how great so much
(19:24):
else of the movie is, right?
Like Jodi
Carson (19:27):
And guess what?
Preston (19:28):
an Oscar for this.
Carson (19:30):
Yes.
There he is.
Only on screen.
You're never, never gonnabelieve this.
He has 19 minutes of screentime.
Let that sink in.
Preston (19:39):
That's
Carson (19:40):
minutes of a two hour runtime.
Preston (19:43):
the difference,
Carson (19:44):
that?
But you,
Preston (19:45):
difference that that can make 19 minutes.
I do believe it.
I mean, it's crazy to talk abouthis impact on the film, but I do
believe it because I rememberkind of thinking like he wasn't
on screen that much, but hisimpact is very, very much there
the entire time.
Because you're thinking abouteven when he's not on screen
(20:07):
whatever, the last scene withhim in it was.
Whatever it was, you are still,whatever he said, you are still
Carson (20:18):
You're thinking about his words?
Yes.
Preston (20:21):
he said and part of that is.
It's twofold again, because it'sthe writing and it's also his
performance, but you're thinkingabout what he said, how it
applies to what you're watchingnow within the story.
Whether it is something aboutBuffalo Bill, the serial killer
that they're trying to catch,whether it's something about
Clarice he's kind of doing thischaracter deconstruction of, and
(20:42):
then the film kind of goes withit and shows you it is really
incredible because he's.
On your mind somehow becausethat performance is so chilling.
And because the script and hisdialogue lends itself to the
story as a whole, and you'rejust thinking about impact that
he leaves on you and how itcarries into scenes that he's
(21:05):
not on screen for at all.
Carson (21:09):
And he also like not to mention post the, the ambulance
scene.
I mean, it cuts away.
And then he's not in the movieagain until the phone call at
the end.
Preston (21:20):
Yeah.
Carson (21:20):
That's insane.
Preston (21:22):
He's gone.
Carson (21:23):
Um,
Preston (21:23):
the third
Carson (21:24):
but like,
Preston (21:24):
raves about.
Carson (21:26):
yes, but like the entire setup of it and her, I will
never forget like the whole lineabout these serial killers, like
coveting and like the wholething of the coveting wasn't
right in front of you.
And then them figuring out thatit's.
He must have known the firstvictim because yada, yada, yada.
Like that whole through line isfa was like, oh, everything is
(21:49):
clicking together of like theirdynamic going back and forth.
And part of it, why I think it'sso engaging is they smartly put
all this through Jodi Foster'scharacter and it's like we're
learning with her and also like.
Kind of going back and forth andfiguring things out, and it
makes you feel like you're,you're right in the thick of it.
And I think that was a reallysmart move.
(22:11):
We should probably also mentionthat like, this is based off a
book, which I did not know goinginto it until I read after,
which is fascinating and,paraphrasing here, but I saw
another one of these reviewslike talking about how.
Oh, here it is.
And yeah, again, back to the NewYork Times review, the original,
1991 February review.
(22:33):
The dialogue is tough and sharpliterate without being literary.
And I think that is fantasticbecause they somehow took
something that could probably bevery in.
I'm curious to read the book.
I probably will read the bookafter all this, something could
probably be very drawn out ininternal and I can see
definitely scenes like.
(22:54):
After she leaves Hannibal'scell, there's probably a whole
chapter of like what she'sthinking for the first time and
probably the flashbacks with allof her childhood stuff is
probably elaborated more, butthe way, the choices the movie
makes to adapt it in such a way,I think is so smart for it being
a book.
And the dialogue feels, likenatural, like it feels like it's
(23:16):
this world that it's setting up.
And I think that's when, youknow, there's a really special
script is like you just loseyourself.
You're not, thinking about thedialogue once other than the
actual mystery of the words.
Sometimes in more modern movies,I'm like, man, this feels like,
it's not even like brain rotdialogue.
I would describe it as like.
Netflix dialogue where it's likethey're betting on that,
(23:39):
somebody's half watching, sothere's all this fluff in the
beginning and the end of scenesbecause they want to fill time
and then they'll only wanna putthe information and the middle
of the scene, if that makessense.
And so it's like, oh, what didyou do today?
Well, you'll never believe whathappened.
And that just like this movie iscutthroat.
(24:02):
And how it, it's just sharp.
It just gets to the point, itgets to the meat of the scene.
Yeah, I know, I know.
Um, I'll find some betteradjectives, but yeah, like
Preston (24:14):
I agree.
Carson (24:15):
the writing is so smart on this movie.
Preston (24:17):
Yeah, it is.
And you know, this brings me to,another point that I really
wanted to talk about, which iswhy I pushed that we do this
movie.
Because when we were discussingwhat movie to watch, you
mentioned this is based off of abook.
The reason that I wanted to dothis movie is because you texted
me the list of movies that youhadn't seen that you were
(24:39):
looking at watching this falland this was on it I had just
finished.
I mean, I was, the credits wererolling when you texted me this,
which is crazy.
I didn't tell you this, but thecredits were rolling of this
new.
Documentary on Hulu, and it'scalled Ted Bundy Dialogue with
the Devil.
(24:59):
And that is important forSilence of the Lambs because it
is Silence of the Lambs.
The book Silence of the Lambswas based on, obviously these
are fictional characters, withinSilence of the Lambs, but it was
based on a real life scenarioinspired by a real life
scenario, which Robert Keppel.
Who was trying to catch theGreen River Killer who was
(25:21):
killing in the Seattle area.
Ted Bundy offered to help him.
Ted Bundy already locked up,escaped all of his whole saga
was over.
He was on death's row.
In an effort to try to extendhis life, to try to postpone his
execution, Ted Bundy reached outalso in an effort to sort of
like, they talk a little bitabout it in this documentary
(25:45):
about how he felt a sort ofpride, maybe because it was the
Seattle area, somewhere that TedBundy had killed and a serial
killer maybe, territorial inthat regard, knowing that
there's another one out therekilling people.
But he reached out to BobKeppel, to say, I can help you
catch the Green River Killer.
And they recorded.
All of it.
And so it's all,
Carson (26:06):
Wow.
Preston (26:07):
with Bob Keppel who basically, and again, they go
into it di the documentaries onHulu called Ted Mundy Dialogue
with the Devil.
talk about, how this was sort ofthe way that they began to learn
how to speak.
At just plainly how to speakserial killers, how to interview
a serial killer, how to get intothe mind of a serial killer,
(26:30):
because while they are gettingTed Bundy's quote unquote, help
to catch the Green River Killer,they knew that they could not
get into Ted Bundy's help.
knew that Ted Bundy could nothelp them without revealing some
of his own secrets.
And Bob Keppel.
Had tried and failed in the pastto get evidence of Bundy killing
(26:53):
eight girls in his area.
He was convicted for somethingelse, for a different murder,
his execution, all of that wasthrough Florida.
This was elsewhere in thecountry because he had fled, and
so he was using these interviewsin which they're trying to kind
of obviously get his help tocatch the Green River Killer,
but he was also using them in away.
To try to get to the bottom andget him to confess eight other
(27:17):
murders, Bundy, eight othermurders in the area that he had
never confessed to, to givesome, some peace of mind to the
families of those eight girlsthat Ted Bundy did kill.
And he did get confessions.
Confessions for all eight.
And it's just a, it's afantastic documentary.
It's five parts, I think maybefour or five on Hulu and man.
(27:37):
The second I saw,'cause theymentioned Silence of the Lambs
quite a bit in the documentarybecause it's what inspired the,
I mean, what's, how can youeven, you know, you take
yourself back.
It's like the idea of using oneserial killer to try to catch
another is like the most insane,like.
Frankly demented thing you canthink of.
(28:00):
But it happened in real life andit kind of was the beginning of
how they investigate serialkillers in a lot of ways.
And it led to a film likeSilence of the Lambs, which
still has a few, inspirationsand, little nuggets, Easter
eggs, if you will, that nod toreal life.
Carson (28:20):
Yeah, that it was based, that the book based it on
basically.
Preston (28:24):
Yeah.
Carson (28:25):
That's crazy.
Preston (28:26):
the one thing that I picked up on pretty quickly, in
Silence of the Lambs, you've gotBuffalo Bill, and he like puts
the, this is so gross.
He like puts the bug thing in
Carson (28:38):
Uh,
Preston (28:38):
throats,
Carson (28:40):
yes.
Preston (28:41):
And not only is he putting them in the river, but
he's based on the Green RiverKiller.
Like he's the killer thatthey're trying to use another
serial killer to catch.
And the Green River Killer,river is right there.
Obviously that's a connection.
But then also one thing that theGreen River Killer did, and this
is like, is really graphic, butwe've been talking about serial
(29:03):
killers, the entire show.
like, sorry if you're listeningin this.
Is gross to you, but thisactually happened.
Green River Killer kill hisvictims and then there was a lot
of necrophilia going on with himas well.
And he would put rocks inside ofvictim's vaginas he left them.
(29:29):
I hear that watching thedocumentary, I hear about that.
I know you're like, your spinechills even hearing about that.
But
Carson (29:35):
Yeah.
Yeah,
Preston (29:36):
heard that kind of watching the documentary and
they mentioned that that wassomething that he did.
then when I was watching Silenceof the Lambs and I see them just
pull this bug out of this girl'sthroat, I was like, because I
Carson (29:49):
dude.
Talk about a scene.
Preston (29:51):
happened.
Carson (29:53):
Yeah, that must have been like an extra weird scene
for you then.
'cause that scene is crazy thatlike, it's also a great
character scene.
As crazy as like, the focus ofthe scene is, she has to like,
kind of like hide and underneathshe, she can't like be reactive.
(30:14):
Like they, they put that stuffon under their nose and then
there's like.
I think it's so smart that wedon't see the body on the table
for like a good two, threeminutes.
We're just getting her reactionsas Clarice is.
Like, this is the first timethat anything, like this,, she
goes from.
In training to like, you know,this is kind of like a very
(30:38):
controlled high school, collegeenvironment.
Like, you know, they're going onmorning runs and they're
quizzing each other.
Like, you gotta ace the testtoday.
And you know, there's like, oh,you didn't check your corner
there.
You're dead.
Thanks coach.
Like, it's all this controlled,training.
And then she gets literallythrown into this.
Based off the whim of this, ofthe one superior, basically
(31:01):
needing any connection, any sortof leg up on this entire
scenario with Buffalo Bill andthen for her to get to this
town.
Basically had to like deal withhaving zero authority, zero
people taking her seriously.
It's all these guys standingaround in the room being like,
oh, that scene is so awkwardwhen she's standing in the,
(31:22):
funeral home and they're justlike, he leaves and then she's
there.
Preston (31:26):
moments, sorry to interrupt, but one of my
favorite moments, to your point,and it's on the theme of sexism,
which is just extremely wellexplored, both spoken and
unspoken, throughout this movie.
One of the unspoken ways that Ireally loved early in the movie,
it shows her getting into anelevator, as the only woman in
the elevator, and
Carson (31:45):
Yes.
Preston (31:46):
her is a man.
I thought it was just brilliantbecause every single extra that
they cast to be in this elevatorwas at least a foot taller than
her.
And
Carson (31:57):
so tall.
Preston (31:57):
And the shot
Carson (31:58):
it was like all the red shirts, right?
Preston (32:00):
Yep.
It was about to say they're allwearing red and you just, god,
you feel her smallness,
Carson (32:05):
Claustrophobic.
Preston (32:06):
Yeah.
Carson (32:07):
Yes.
Preston (32:08):
Things
Carson (32:08):
And then, yeah, the few,
Preston (32:10):
ways that it implements the themes of the movie so well.
Carson (32:15):
yeah.
And then anyways, back to the,the, the scene where she's like,
there's something in, in thisgirl's throat, and they pull out
that bug and, it's, it's justsuch a fascinating journey that
like, and then they, it goes tolike, she sort of becomes like
the expert and then she kind ofgets kicked off the case again.
You kind of had the hospital guybullying himself.
(32:37):
I thought that press conferencescene was hilarious.
Where he's like, we don't have aname yet, but my name is Charles
Milton or whatever.
Preston (32:47):
Yeah.
Carson (32:48):
So you have all this weaseling for control.
And she kind of gets this crashcourse on the cruelty of the
normal world too.
And I think that's sort of theallure of her talking to
Hannibal too, is she needs a waythrough her world just as much
as the case needs to be solved,if that makes sense.
He's sort of like this bouncingboard for her rise and role in
(33:13):
the FBI and the situation ofwhat she can achieve.
And you know, it's fascinating.
It's just like you couldn'tinvent a better, more
interesting dynamic for thischaracter to bounce off of.
And then for him to leave midwaythrough the second act, like we
mentioned earlier.
And then have her finish out herarc I thought was so smart is
(33:36):
like she takes control of thesituation and everything leading
up to her eventually shootingBuffalo bill in the basement.
It's crazy moment to see her goon that journey.
Preston (33:47):
Yeah, you talked a little bit about what they do.
The little switcheroo that theydo, in
Carson (33:53):
Yes, yes.
At the coming in the door,
Preston (33:56):
right when she's at, at his door.
And gonna be honest, like I,maybe I'm, I thought I was a
smarter movie watcher, man.
I'll tell you that.
Uh,
Carson (34:06):
I'm telling you, you get, you get lulled in.
It's not your fault.
Preston (34:10):
Yeah.
I thought I would not be trickedby something like that.
Even if you're not tricked,right?
I was tricked.
But even if you're not trickedby something like that, you can
still see it and be like, oh,they did that.
Well, I really appreciate that.
That was awesome what they did.
when you're tricked by it, and Iwas, just blown away.
I mean, I think part of it isbecause.
The pacing of the movie is soperfect in that it is just
(34:34):
constantly keeping you engagedto the point where you're not
really thinking about first,second, and third act.
When you're watching this thing,you're not really
Carson (34:44):
Oh, not at all.
Preston (34:45):
story structure.
You're not really thinkingabout, What we're leading to.
I mean, maybe you are thinkingabout what we're leading to, but
you're not necessarily thinkingabout how close we are to it.
You're not thinking about,when's the movie gonna end?
How long has it been since itstarted?
Those sorts of things.
Even in other good movies, youmight think of that kind of
stuff.
Whenever you're in the middle ofwatching, you're not thinking
about that at all.
So I was realizing that we wereabout to hit the beginning of
(35:08):
that third act that we wereabout to hit this climactic
moment, of her.
Catching Buffalo Bill,obviously, you know that that's
probably eventually going to bethe way this thing ends,
whenever they say we got him,the FBI guy is on the phone with
her, he says, we got him, we gota name, we're on the way.
We got the address, we're gonnago get him.
didn't buy that, you know, I, Inever really thought, oh yeah,
(35:29):
that's just the
Carson (35:30):
Yeah, it was too.
It was too wrapped up.
Preston (35:32):
Yeah, that would've been, that was just too, too
quick and too easy at the sametime.
I thought that she was gonnaopen the door and just find
somebody else to interview aboutBuffalo Bill.
I, I thought that they were justgonna be at the wrong place.
She was gonna get one moreinterview and then maybe she
goes and finds him after that.
But, the way that they cut thattogether with them, you know,
(35:53):
the SWAT team surrounding thehouse in one end, and again, you
kind of get this juxtapositionof.
At one house, you've got thefull FBI team, the full SWAT
team.
They're surrounding the house,their guns are drawn, they're
ready to go.
Like whoever's in that house isgetting caught done deal.
There is no chance on the otherend.
(36:16):
You've got,
Carson (36:17):
in the gift grab.
I wish I, we just had to say isit's fantastic.
Like what a, they pull out thetruck and everything.
It is so funny.
Preston (36:26):
But, and it's all ready to go on this.
And, and then on the other end,you've got a college student
who's just doing some interviewsand like she's just door
knocking it's just her and wehaven't seen her.
Correct.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I don't think we've seen herpull a gun.
I don't think we've seen her inany sort of real action other
than simulated action.
And she does the interviews withHannibal Lecter, but we haven't
seen her face a real situationlike this yet
Carson (36:51):
Yep.
Preston (36:52):
movie.
And so you do feel like she'snot necessarily safe, like you
don't feel like she's preparedto handle this type of a thing.
You haven't seen her do it.
In the movie yet.
And so you have this entirely,controlled situation from the
FBI's perspective on one end andthen they're totally at the
wrong place.
(37:12):
And then you've got this othersituation where she is just out
there in the open, you know,anything could happen to her, to
the point where when you seethat it's Buffalo Bill who opens
the door for her, and thatreveal of,
Carson (37:25):
Ugh.
Preston (37:26):
oh my god.
Carson (37:28):
And it's so smart that we've already seen him by this
point because.
Preston (37:31):
yeah.
Carson (37:33):
Then it, that moment clicks so much more, especially
with like the door cracked andyou just see him and then, he's
like, come on in.
You're like, no, no, no, no, no.
And you start to put togetherlike
Preston (37:45):
You watch
Carson (37:45):
the whole mom thing.
Preston (37:48):
and she sees the all of the
Carson (37:50):
Oh, it's so good.
Preston (37:52):
Yeah.
Carson (37:53):
The sewing.
Yeah.
It's like the sewing threads andthe whatever else is laying
around in the kitchen becauselike that whole first floor is
like kind of like a false kindof deal.
It doesn't look normal, but itlooks normal as.
A relative term, and it was justlike, but then it starts to
creep in and oh my gosh, themoment she drops the gun and he
(38:15):
runs to the other room andthere's that cutaway to the gun
prior to him grabbing it, andthen he grabs it, oh, you best
believe my volume was going downto like negative forward dude.
As soon as she like found thatother door, and I'm like, I,
this, that's where, HowardShor's score was just going
crazy.
And I'm like, it's, it's toocreepy.
I'm, I just start turning thevolume down and then I would
(38:37):
just start turning it up alittle and then I'd turn it back
down and then that stupid crustydog would start barking and I'm
like, oh my God, get outta here.
I don't want to hear anythingabout this dog anymore.
Preston (38:47):
Dude,
Carson (38:48):
was perfectly fine.
Fine dog.
It just was annoying.
Preston (38:51):
I was watching with my dog.
Who hates seeing other dogs
Carson (38:59):
This must have been, they must have dropped the whole
star on their letterbox review.
It's.
Preston (39:04):
ADA, little, little Miss Ada did not, like that.
I deal with it whenever she,whenever you hear a dog or
something and she like, she'lljump up.
Obviously like dogs when they'relaying on your lap as a man,
have a really great knack forfinding the one place on a man's
body that you don't want
Carson (39:21):
Yeah.
Preston (39:22):
directly stepped on, but she's really good at that.
So like I, I've gotten used tolike bracing myself for it in
scenarios like this.
So anyway, they get, princess isthe dog's name, I think, right?
Carson (39:34):
Yes.
Which is hilarious.
Preston (39:36):
and it's this scene where Catherine, the senator's
daughter who's in the well or
Carson (39:42):
Yeah.
Takes, takes the dog hostage.
Preston (39:45):
She's trying to take the dog hostage.
ADA jumps up, she's like, God,she's staring at the screen.
She's like going nuts.
And I'm just like, you learn todeal with it.
But, I'm a protective dog dad,right?
She's the little baby.
She's probably a little pamperedtoo much.
She's definitely a littlepampered too much.
But I'm watching this and I'mlike, oh shit.
Perfect little angel.
My baby thinks that this isreal.
(40:08):
I haven't seen this movie beforeand I'm like, there's a real
chance that this dog's neck getssnapped in half in the next
Carson (40:15):
dude,
Preston (40:16):
30 seconds, and
Carson (40:18):
and sidebar on that.
Preston (40:21):
So I
Carson (40:21):
yeah.
You had to like cover her eyes.
Preston (40:24):
I you, your daddy is not allowing you to watch this
movie anymore.
Carson (40:28):
They, they should have put the disclaimer in the New
York Times review that Imentioned that your, your dog
should not be allowed.
To watch, because speaking ofdogs being harmed in movies,
that sounds horrible.
Kelly has not seen the John Wickmovies and we watched John Wick
one and two this weekend, beforeI watched this movie she knows
(40:49):
that the dog dies in the firstmovie.
I'm giving the full husbandbreakdown.
Here's what you need to knowabout the scene.
Here's the type of dog, here'sthe situation.
You're gonna see revenge aboutthe dog.
There's gonna be another dog.
Eventually, you just need tojust like.
Just wait.
Just everything is going to beokay.
It is a fictional character.
(41:11):
It's a fictional dog.
No dogs were harmed in themaking of this movie, but when
it happened, she was like, justthrowing pitchforks, man.
And I was just like, it is it,it does make it stressful.
And when she had that dog downthere and it was like the lights
were off and, sorry.
Back to Silence of Lambs.
And he's walking in and he firstdiscovers that, catherine has
(41:33):
the dog down there.
I'm like, oh crap.
And also, I'm just nowremembering that when he, he
grabbed the gun and then we getthat creepy doorbell cut when
they're ringing the doorbell,the FBI's ringing the doorbell
and then Clarice is ringing thedoorbell and, His creepy bell
that rings underneath the houseto like, let him know that
(41:54):
there's someone at the doorbellwas terrifying.
Preston (41:57):
But you
Carson (41:57):
That was an insane editing moment.
Preston (41:59):
that it
Carson (42:00):
I know, I know.
That was before you getrevealed.
Preston (42:02):
Or the FBI, you still
Carson (42:05):
Yes, I.
Preston (42:07):
And that's, I, it's so, it's just so well done.
Yeah.
I'm enamored by this movie.
I loved it I'm a wuss.
I don't know how else to saythat.
I tried to find a way not to saythat I don't
Carson (42:18):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (42:18):
scares and I don't like, I especially don't like
cheap jump scares that do notfeel earned.
If, if a movie has like earnedthe right to scare me with a
jump scare, I'm okay with it.
This movie has zero jump scares.
Fun fact.
I don't know if you knew
Carson (42:32):
And, you know, it was even,
Preston (42:33):
about it, but none
Carson (42:35):
ugh,
Preston (42:36):
and I was more terrified than any movie that
has jump scared me.
I'll tell you that.
Carson (42:40):
we had to circle back to the beginning where I was told
you I was scared of the lights,the whole freaking scene with
the night vision.
Which one?
Terrifying.
During the actual kidnappingscene of Kathryn, that was
terrifying, number one.
Number two, it comes back and heturns off the lights and then
turns on the night vision.
(43:02):
Um,
Preston (43:02):
The way
Carson (43:03):
when Kathryn, or, uh oh,
Preston (43:05):
That whole
Carson (43:06):
when.
Preston (43:06):
showdown through his POV?
Carson (43:09):
Is terrifying.
One is the Is, yeah.
'cause like she's right in frontof him and he's like almost
grabbing her hair and she'smoving and like one of the most
terrifying scenes
Preston (43:19):
yeah.
Carson (43:20):
Like
Preston (43:21):
The way that
Carson (43:21):
straight up.
Preston (43:22):
through his point of view, especially because like
going into that, you don't seehim for a solid like minute and
a half, two minutes.
Carson (43:30):
No.
So
Preston (43:31):
of
Carson (43:32):
she's going around the house, she's clearing every
room.
Katherine screaming, and thenall of a sudden you get a hard
cut to the, the eyes of thenight vision turning on.
Preston (43:45):
And you're
Carson (43:46):
That's the first time you've seen him in minutes.
Preston (43:48):
I know who wears
Carson (43:50):
My gut dropped and my volume went, my volume went back
down to negative five.
No, no, no, no, no.
Preston (43:59):
Man, that was so good.
It's such a great way to end it.
And to kind of just things up, Iliked the way the movie wrapped
things up as well because youget the phone call at the end
and that shot of Hannibalfollowing the doctor that
tormented him when he was inprison.
That shot lasts for the entirecredits also, which I kind of
thought was cool.
Carson (44:18):
Yes.
Preston (44:19):
the shot is like five, six minutes long.
Like he, he's way like Hannibalwalks off screen and the credits
are still going and you just seethe street.
I thought that was neat.
But the line that they give of,having an old friend for dinner
like that is
Carson (44:34):
Oh yes.
Preston (44:35):
It's so creepy, but it's so like and on the nose.
It's one of those lines.
It's an iconic line, you know,it's an iconic, villain killer,
line that just, sticks with you.
I thought it was
Carson (44:48):
So perfectly delivered.
Preston (44:49):
button on, on the whole
Carson (44:51):
Yes.
It's like the ice, it's like theicing on the cake.
Preston (44:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I
Carson (44:57):
And
Preston (44:57):
that.
Carson (44:57):
I had a gut feeling he was coming back.
But the way he did it was justlike the stamp on the movie,
man.
Exactly what you're saying.
Like,
Preston (45:05):
act is
Carson (45:05):
oh.
Preston (45:06):
enthralling without him.
That whole face off with her andBuffalo bill and all of that is
just so enthralling without himat all that you kind of, you
don't forget about him, but alsoit's so good that.
You're kind of like not asconcerned of when's Hannibal
(45:28):
gonna come back?
Where's Hannibal?
Because when he escapes, you'relike, oh, where's he gonna go?
What's he gonna do?
Is he gonna go after Clarice?
What's gonna happen?
But then everything they do withClarice and Buffalo Bill, which
is the actual story that's sofreaking good that.
not
Carson (45:44):
You forget.
Preston (45:45):
with Hannibal to the point where maybe you do forget
about him, but you don't forgetabout him entirely.
But you don't care as muchnecessarily where he's headed,
what he's doing, uh, to thepoint where when he comes back
again, it's the very last scenejust right at the end.
You're like, oh, oh, oh my god.
Right.
Yeah, him, the whole reason thatI got roped into this movie, the
whole reason that I locked in,you know, an hour and a half
(46:07):
ago.
Really great stuff.
Carson (46:10):
And not to mention like.
The line to of, well, Claricehave the lamb stop screaming.
The whole, the whole like, thisis like an even more incredible
way of like when they say thetitle in the movie and you're
like, you're like, oh, I under,and you're like Leo DiCaprio.
And once upon Time in Hollywood,like I understood the reference.
(46:32):
Like that was like the ultimate.
Moment in this movie whereyou're like, oh my gosh.
But like in the char, in thecontext of the character, you
know, she's getting sworn intothe FBI, you know, everything's
on the upswing, and then boom,hit her with this psychological
Preston (46:48):
Torture.
Carson (46:49):
Of a line delivery and then goes right into the line
about I'm meeting a friend fordinner, and I'm like, oh my
gosh.
Preston (46:56):
Yep.
Yep.
Crazy stuff.
Crazy stuff.
Carson (47:00):
I can't imagine seeing this movie in 1991 in theaters
like
Preston (47:04):
No.
way.
I don't even know how I would.
Yeah.
It's like I would've loved tosee this movie in theaters and I
would've loved to see it knowingthat all my friends were seeing
it, and then talk with themafterward.
I would've loved to have thatkind of experience
Carson (47:17):
the Water Cooler Talk on Monday.
For like after the weekend, thismovie came out, probably was
like one of the most elite watercooler talks.
You can just see it now.
And then he wore his face onhim.
Like, you know, like it's justlike the whole day would've been
wasted and it would've been likethe best day, unproductive day
(47:37):
at work.
Ever talking about this movie?
Preston (47:38):
on
Carson (47:39):
Yes.
Preston (47:39):
I'll tell you that I'm getting no work done.
My emails, I'll email a coworkeracross the room about this movie
if I
Carson (47:45):
No, no, they didn't have email Preston.
They didn't, I actually, Ishould stop talking.
They probably did have email in1991, but it was probably very,
very slow.
Preston (47:54):
I'm lost in, I feel almost
Carson (47:58):
We,
Preston (47:58):
but I'm knocking on the door.
I'm sending a fax.
Do they have that in 1991?
I don't know.
Whatever.
I'm lighting my, I'm sending aRaven the
Carson (48:07):
it's, it's.
Was it, was it, oh, it was glassonion, right?
Where they, the one creepybillionaire Ed Norton guy, like
sends faxes to people.
Am I crazy?
Preston (48:18):
yeah.
Speaking of
Carson (48:20):
Yes,
Preston (48:21):
out, it's coming soon.
Wake up dead man
Carson (48:24):
I know it.
Uh, speaking of fall vibes, likea,
Preston (48:29):
episode of Zoll
Carson (48:30):
like
Preston (48:31):
Yeah.
Carson (48:31):
cathedrals, we are definitely doing his iPod
episode on that.
Preston (48:35):
We,
Carson (48:35):
It's gonna be.
Preston (48:36):
on wake up Dead man, but also like the whole trilogy.
Carson (48:42):
Let's do it.
Preston (48:43):
do the other two as well.
Carson (48:44):
I already need to rewatch, glass onion
specifically because I've seenit twice, but that was like two,
it, I watched it once intheaters on Thanksgiving with my
family, and then I watched itChristmas break.
On Netflix.
So it's been since, when didthat movie come out?
(49:06):
2022.
Does that sound right?
Preston (49:08):
I
Carson (49:08):
I think 2022.
Preston (49:10):
Yeah.
Carson (49:10):
So it's been three years since I've seen that movie.
Preston (49:13):
been a while for me as well.
We'll, we'll definitely get intothat.
That's just a little tease ofwhat may or may not be coming up
on Solly pod.
Carson (49:21):
If we start speaking in, monograms and fall and like when
she's like, has the notepad outand she's like trying to figure
out what, that like whateverfriend, like, storage places,
like we'll just start at the endof every podcast because we
totally have our next episodeplan.
Guys,
Preston (49:37):
Absolutely
Carson (49:38):
start doing cryptic.
Preston (49:41):
really well.
Carson (49:42):
Call us the sequel Star Wars sequel trilogy the way
we're planned right now.
Okay, we're gonna have to cutthat.
Preston (49:52):
And on that note, no, I don't think we should.
I don't wanna cut that.
I love it personally.
On that note, I think that's it.
I think that's a good time towrap it up, and call it for this
one.
Carson, I'm glad we got to watchthis movie.
Silence of the Lambs.
Absolutely fantastic.
I'm excited for future episodesthat are all planned out
extremely well, just as well asthe Star Wars sequel Trilogy
(50:15):
was.
And, I'm excited for Wake UpDead Man, and I'm excited for
Halloween and I am just, I'mglad to have had this episode
and I'm looking forward to whatwe got going on next.
Carson (50:25):
Absolutely.
And we will hopefully bementioning some more horror
films throughout the fall,through the holiday season, some
other stuff.
Yeah, it's just gonna be fun tobreak down other movies and
share these moments.
I know like, gosh, it's so hardto both watch a movie.
Not tell anybody about it.
Wait till the episode to discussit.
(50:46):
But also like, we're likesending texts beforehand and
it's like, oh, I don't wanna gotoo far and I don't wanna talk
about this.
'cause then we've already havetalked about it.
Preston (50:53):
you about, because I know we're gonna have like
Carson (50:55):
Yes, yes.
So I just love that you likeyour last text to me.
I was like, yeah, that'sinteresting.
And I just thought it was sofunny that like, alright, we
gotta like, we gotta tame itdown.
We gotta make sure we have.
Preston (51:10):
Yeah.
Carson (51:11):
you're gonna No.
Preston (51:12):
stuff though.
Great movie.
time talking about it.
Looking forward to the next one.
For those of you listening, ifyou have not subscribed yet to
our podcast, make sure you do.
We're on all differentplatforms.
Follow us on social media at ZPod, and we will have more
content coming up for you.
More episodes coming up verysoon.
Looking forward to everything,that we have in the works.
(51:34):
So, with that.
I have been Preston Mooresigning off for myself and
Carson Terrell, my co-host, andwe will see you guys at the
movies and at the next one.
Welcome into Zoll Pod.
I am one of your hosts, PrestonMoore.
Joined by my co-host CarsonTerrell.
Carson, how are you doingtonight?
Carson (00:29):
It is a spooky, spooky night in October and I have all
the lights on and for goodreason because the movie we're
about to talk about today mademe scared of the dark again in
the worst way, but I'm happy totalk about it.
This is, a movie that I knowboth of us.
Haven't seen, and it's been funto tell everybody.
(00:51):
Try to not tell everybody thatwe we're watching this movie,
but also I told like five peopleand everyone's like, oh my gosh,
you haven't seen this movie.
But yeah, this is gonna be a funepisode.
I just have a feeling.
Preston (01:02):
It, it's funny what you texted me right after you
finished, and you were like, I'mgonna go turn on all the lights
in my apartment right nowbecause I just watched this
movie.
So for those of you who aretuning in today, we are talking
Silence of the Lambs, one of thegreat, horror thriller movies of
all time.
Neither of us had seen it.
This is something that both ofus kind of want to do with this
(01:23):
podcast as a whole we'll talkabout a little bit later, but,
watching movies that.
of us have seen or maybe showingeach other movies that the other
one has seen.
Um, and just kind of dissectingthem and especially some of
these, classics, you know, likeSilence of the Lambs, some of
these great movies that are sopopular and so just embedded
(01:44):
into the pop culture zeitgeistfor the last, you know, 30, 35
years or so.
That, I mean, we've even got, I,I'll talk about this later, but
We've even got, the president ofthe United States brings up
Hannibal Lecter and his speechesall the time, and now having
seen.
The movie, I am even morebewildered by the fact that the
(02:04):
president likes to bring up thelate great Hannibal Lecter, as
he says.
but all that to say, it's a bigmovie.
It's been around for a long timeand it was one of, it still is
one of, the greatest horrorthriller movies of all time.
And it's right around, the righttime of year to be talking about
this late October spooky seasonin full swing.
(02:26):
Carson, I.
I just kind of to start thingsoff, I love this movie.
I loved it.
I absolutely loved it.
I know you did too.
And I'm was FI found myselfsaying What took you so long to
watch this movie?
I just found myself thinking, Ican't believe I took this long.
Like this thing is of the bestI've ever seen immediately.
Carson (02:52):
And it's crazy too, like I was just as you were doing
that first bit there, I waslike, okay, I know there's the
IMDB.
Greatest a hundred movies listwhere, you know, not an exact
science, but there's a lot ofreviews on there.
And this movie is almost in thetop 20.
It's number 22 on IMD B'S topmovie list.
(03:14):
So I have a feeling that we'regonna find some other movies on
here that both of us haven'tseen or one of us really, really
enjoys and wants to share withthe other person.
Uh, but that being said.
Back to the movie itself.
Yes.
I felt the exact same way.
Especially, you know, when I wasfirst texting you after, like,
the third act of this movie isone of the most insane things
(03:36):
I've ever like, and also like,just from a technical
perspective, like this moviestarts out and you're like, oh,
this is like a nice, like chill.
Like she's just running on the,the FI training course.
We get like.
I, it might be like a a fiveminute intro, full credits, and
I was like, I don't think.
(03:58):
Our attention spans couldwithstand this type of intro in
2025.
And it made me sad because it'slike full credits and full and
that was when I was like, when Isaw Howard Shore pop up, I was
like, wait a minute, you meanLord of the Rings Howard Shore?
And I, oh, and like all thelittle strings, string music in
this movie, it was just like,yes.
(04:19):
And it's like all the puzzlepieces were clicking together.
Much as the mystery of thismovie clicks together.
And also having watched, trueDetective night country, with
Jodi Foster last year or twoyears ago.
It was like so cool to see herliterally 30 years ago, in this
mystery kind of role, and thenlike in the H-B-H-B-O show all
(04:43):
this time later, doing a similarbut.
Very different type of lawenforcement role.
And it's funny how this startsout.
I'm almost just like, oh, likewe're, it's this gonna be a nice
little drama.
Like I guess I was expecting'cause I've heard so much about
this movie, I was expecting thismassive hook and it's kind of
insane how it gets away withbeing like this chill kind of
(05:04):
fall atmosphere.
Like I was kind of.
Preston (05:06):
yeah.
Carson (05:07):
It caught me off guard in the best way.
Like, I don't know if that's howyou felt about the movie, like
it took its time to get into it,but by the time it gets to the
one scene, and we'll talk aboutit later, you're like, oh, now I
know what this movie's about.
But then it keeps one uppingitself I don't know if that's
how you felt like the scriptwas, but it's simultaneously
like calm and cool delivery, butlike the actual.
(05:28):
Stuff in the script is soheightened and so good that it
stresses you out and that thelevels just rise.
The whole movie man.
It be truly becomes like reallygood thriller.
Preston (05:38):
It does, and you talk about the way that it continues
to escalate and those levelsrising as it goes.
One thing I'll never forget,when I was in journalism school,
one of my first professors, hehad this idea of gold coins,
right?
And that's what he called kindof just little nuggets that you
would drop in your writingwithin a story that kind of
brought us back into it, broughtus back to engaged into whatever
(06:01):
you're writing, and when we wereworking on packages, he would
say like, this is where you'regonna, you need to drop a gold
coin somewhere here becauseyou're gonna lose us over this
time.
Now, obviously.
In a journalism package, in abroadcast news package, you
know, you're looking at 90seconds, maybe, you know, up to
three, four minutes if it's along form one.
But even in writing, you'rethinking about that stuff as
(06:21):
well when you're writingarticles.
In my experience, I think ofthat gold coin analogy all the
time in film, whenever I'mwatching films, and I think what
Silence of the Lambs does reallywell is it takes this idea of
the gold coins.
You talked about that slowbeginning.
I say slow, it's just kind ofcalm.
(06:42):
It's a calm fall atmosphere.
You're not really thinking aboutall of the things that it's
gonna become.
Even 35 years later.
We're watching it after releaseand we know what we're getting
into.
We know what this movie's about.
We know that this is a horrorthriller movie, but at the same
time, you know.
In this opening phase of themovie, we're in this beginning
(07:05):
first, 20, 30 minutes wherewe're invested and we're signed
up for it.
We're gonna give it a chance asan audience member who has not
seen it, you're gonna give themovie a chance for 20, 30
minutes and it takes its timegetting slow.
And then as it needs toescalate, as it needs to
involve, some of those goldcoins as it needs to.
Invoke some of those scenes asit needs to just give you some
(07:27):
of these jaw dropping moments ormoments where your eyes become
glued to the screen and youdon't even realize that they're
glued to the screen.
It does that, and it does thatin such great timing throughout
the script that whole thing, bythe time it's finished, you
talked about that third act,you're on the edge of your seat.
You cannot keep your eyes offthe screen.
(07:48):
By the time it's finished, youlook back and you're like.
That was, that was And you thinkabout every single part of the
narrative, and you're like, Idon't know what I would take out
of that, if I would takeanything out of that, because it
was just.
The exact way that it needed tobe.
And you look back on it and it'sabsolutely fantastic.
And so to your point, in termsof the way that it escalates and
(08:11):
continues getting better you canlook at so many moments before
the third act even begins.
You know, there was a momentwhen I realized we were in the
third act and I was like, oh.
Now it's, like, this is, is nowgonna be good.
Like, it's been fantastic.
But now we're into the third actwhere, every movie is, gonna
really hit its home runs.
(08:32):
The realization of like, this isthe third act, That means that
the entire first and second actwere as good as it was just now.
All of that hitting me.
Was really a moment whenever Irealized just how special this
movie was going to be.
And obviously the third actknocks it outta the park.
But the beginning and themiddle, I mean, it's a very
(08:52):
tight story and it has so many,of those little gold coins of
those moments that you're justlike, wow.
Like that really just leaves youspeechless and surprises you.
There were a lot of surprises inthis movie for me, again, which.
something that I think maybewe've taken for granted, I don't
know, something we don't reallyget in 2025
Carson (09:15):
Yes.
Preston (09:16):
there were moments that I did not expect, and that's not
even to say that a lot of thepredictable movies I've seen the
modern era aren't good.
There's plenty of good moviesthat I can predict what's gonna
happen next the entire time.
But, when a movie can catch youoff guard in so many little
ways.
The way that Silence of theLambs did for me, it's a credit
(09:36):
to it.
Carson (09:38):
Totally.
And that reminds me ofsomething.
Speaking of your little goldcoin analogy, it's like in um,
in.
Like a screenwriting analogy islike the best surprises are the
most obvious ones that are likeexecuted in a way that makes it
so believable in the world thatit's inhabiting.
(09:58):
And I remember texting you lastnight too, of like, oh my gosh,
this movie got us like two timeswith.
The switcheroo thing once whenHannibal Lecter gets out of, his
prison cell after he'stransferred, and a number of
other things happen.
And it does the bait and switchwith him actually, being the
(10:19):
person in the ambulance.
And then also again at the endwhen, you know it's coming that
they're not, she, that the FBIis not gonna be in the right
house and that she's gonna be inthe house, but like, your body
like, just feels like, oh mygosh.
Well, what I don't know how thisis possible'cause the editing
gets you so locked into like thestory that you start to forget.
(10:41):
The little details ofcontinuity.
And that's what the best moviesdo is they make you forget about
the stupid little bits ofcontinuity and you buy into
every twist and turn and thenyou're still surprised.
And that movie, or this movie isa perfect example of that.
And it could have beencompletely over the top and it
could have been completelycheesy, but like from the first
(11:04):
introduction of Anthony Hopkins,I knew some of the most stuff
that we've seen from this movieis like these closeup shots that
everybody talks about of like,it kind of goes back to like the
Kubrick stare of like StanleyKubrick movies.
Like, it makes me think of likeThe Shining and other things
where, you know, someone'slooking down the lens, but when
I actually saw the first closeupof Anthony Hopkins in this
(11:26):
movie, I was like, oh my gosh,this is terrifying.
Um,
Preston (11:30):
is
Carson (11:31):
and
Preston (11:32):
this is what it's
Carson (11:33):
this is what everyone's talking about.
Preston (11:34):
this is, this is
Carson (11:36):
And it's, it's, it's,
Preston (11:37):
yeah.
Carson (11:38):
and it's, it's like shocking that like it could
still do that to me.
Even though, like I've seen thaton Twitter a million different
times.
People in replies like, youknow, memeing around with this
image for collectively theexistence of the internet.
This has been thrown around.
But then like seeing it incontext, like changes everything
and I was just so.
(11:59):
Enamored by this, like how heplayed this character, the
writing, like watching theirdynamic, him and, the Clarice
character Jodi Foster, likedevelop, like, it's sort of like
this weird, like they're so,they're both like interested in
each other's goals and like,what's going on and like, she
(12:20):
needs answers, but like he.
Is obviously imprisoned and likejust wants to like pick her mind
and manipulate her and like bemaniacal in the situation.
And it's like so fascinating towatch that develop.
It's like kind of like a darkcomedy for a bit, but then all
of a sudden.
He gets transferred and all thisstuff happens with him and
(12:40):
you're like, oh yeah, he hasalso tricked me.
And he is definitely a serialkiller.
And you're like, it gets youtoo.
Like you kind of fall for his,the quid pro quo of it all of
like, oh, you, you need toanswer this now.
And like, you feel yourself kindof lulling into that.
Preston (12:55):
Yeah.
Carson (12:56):
It's just a fascinating back and forth.
Like I was just so captivated byeach of their scenes and
starting off walking down thatlong hallway.
And I think he's not even facingthe camera, right?
Like he's at the back of thewall.
I can't remember if he's,painting or doing one of those
drawings or whatever he isdoing, but the whole
introduction scene just waslike, okay, I am sitting up in
(13:17):
my chair now.
Need to lock in and figure outwhat's going on with this movie.
And it really, it never reallylet up.
Preston (13:24):
You talk about, Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter.
That scene I was texting afriend of mine and I watched
this on Sunday and so he wastexting me a little bit about
fantasy football and stuff Itold him, I was like, i'm not
watching the game right now.
I'm actually, I'm watchingSilence of the Lambs.
It's my first time.
And I had texted him, I waslike, I just, Hannibal's.
(13:46):
First scene just happened.
And, he said, and I quote, putthe fucking phone down and pay
attention.
We stopped talking footballright then and there.
And I was paying attentionobviously before, but, I just
wanted to check what he wassaying.
And even when I had to go to thebathroom and let my dogs out in
the middle of the movie.
I texted him again and I justsaid, bathroom break.
(14:06):
This is amazing.
And he said, again, put thephone down.
And so, I just thought that wasreally funny because he knows,
he works in Hollywood and he's areally, great guy and he knows
movies better than anybody thatI know.
And so, that experience,especially, telling him,
Hannibal's just came on screenfor the first time he knew, and,
when you're watching that sceneis unbelievable.
(14:30):
And that's when it really, Ifeel like the movie really hooks
you in.
And from then on it's, it doesnot let you go at all, from that
moment on.
Not that it lets you go in thebeginning, but you do have this
kind of calm sort ofintroduction that.
You can easily forget whatyou're getting into, what you
got into with this movie whenyou're in the intro and then
(14:51):
whenever he comes on screen andyou hear Anthony Hopkins and his
performance, just the couplingof his dialogue, his writing,
what the script does for him andhis delivery is.
Truly haunting.
It's a perfect storm because thescript does such a great job at
(15:15):
characterizing Hannibal as this,you know, obviously he's a
cold-blooded killer, but wedon't see necessarily that of
him for a little while, and Ithink that's
Carson (15:27):
That's what I was trying to say before.
Yeah.
Preston (15:30):
Right.
We don't see that side of himreally until the second half of
the second act.
I would say maybe roughly around
Carson (15:37):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (15:38):
And so up until that point, you really get to
characterize the guy Himself andhe's a creep.
And, and we get that.
And you know, we, we, it's saidaloud that he's a cannibal.
It's said aloud that he's in thesmack security prison for a
reason and all of those things.
But we're, we get to see him asa psychiatrist, as an insane
(15:59):
psychiatrist, like an insanelygood psychiatrist who's just
like reading every single detailand all the minutia of his
conversations With Clarice, youget all of that and, the
coupling of the way that theywrite that and the way that
Anthony Hopkins plays it perfectand it draws you into his
(16:19):
character.
So.
much.
He's magnetic on the screen.
He is absolutely
Carson (16:26):
Yes.
Preston (16:27):
magnetic.
And it, I mean, that's why hewon an Oscar for it.
He was one of five Oscar winsfor this movie, one of the
others being Best Riding.
That, that script won thatscreenplay, won an Oscar as well
as did the director, JonathanDem and Jodie Foster.
And then of course it wins.
(16:48):
picture too.
So, yeah, it deserved all ofthose.
And I believe I read that themovie came out over a year
before that Oscars happened.
Like it was a February release.
Carson (16:59):
because yes, I was just looking at, before this, taking
some notes and like looking uporiginal 1991, reviews, it's
like all the, in the newspapers,which is just fun to go on, on,
on.
New York Times archives or LosAngeles Times archives and like,
you had to look at an archivedarticle and it's kind of really
(17:19):
funny as a concept, uh,
Preston (17:22):
Because
Carson (17:23):
can't just like find the article right away.
Preston (17:25):
We didn't
Carson (17:25):
Yeah,
Preston (17:26):
weren't on the letterbox back then.
Carson (17:28):
no.
Like people weren't going outand, rating it.
With one sentence and giving ita, a zinger with a joke
immediately leaving the, thetheater and buying the, the
limited edition popcorn bucketon the way out.
We used to be a proper country.
Preston (17:44):
Four and a half out of five because no post credit
scene.
Carson (17:47):
No post courtesy.
No, but like what's fascinatingtoo is like, it, it's just so
funny reading these.
Not funny, but like, it'sinteresting to read these
reviews and the, there's like adisclaimer at the bottom of the
new
Preston (18:02):
before the Oscars.
Carson (18:03):
Yeah, like so far in advance, like this New York
Times, February 14th, 1991 andit's, it, this disclaimer is so
funny because Silence of theLambs, which has been rated R.
Under 17 requires accompanyingparent or adult.
Includes some graphic stillpictures of battered bodies.
That's it.
That's it.
Nothing else.
Nothing.
That's, that's the disclaimer.
(18:25):
And I'm like, that's freakingincredible.
Like there used to be like, notreally information that was
like, now there's like sitesthat like break down the every
single scene of a movie of likewhat?
What's in it?
What's okay, you know, whatever.
And like, can you imagine beinglike,
Preston (18:42):
before you go
Carson (18:43):
Can you imagine being 15, 16, back in the day sneaking
into this movie, like buying aticket?
I don't know what else was outthat weekend, but like buying a
ticket for a different movie andsneaking into this movie and
being like, it's probably adefining moment of your teenage
existence is sneaking into thismovie because you'd be like, oh
my gosh, we did it.
We got away with the heist.
Preston (19:03):
Yeah.
And this movie of All Mo, Imean, my goodness, just the
experience of it all.
We've talked a lot about AnthonyHopkins', Hannibal Lecter, and
truly his performance, propelsthe whole thing.
I can't say Carrie actually,because of how great so much
(19:24):
else of the movie is, right?
Like Jodi
Carson (19:27):
And guess what?
Preston (19:28):
an Oscar for this.
Carson (19:30):
Yes.
There he is.
Only on screen.
You're never, never gonnabelieve this.
He has 19 minutes of screentime.
Let that sink in.
Preston (19:39):
That's
Carson (19:40):
minutes of a two hour runtime.
Preston (19:43):
the difference,
Carson (19:44):
that?
But you,
Preston (19:45):
difference that that can make 19 minutes.
I do believe it.
I mean, it's crazy to talk abouthis impact on the film, but I do
believe it because I rememberkind of thinking like he wasn't
on screen that much, but hisimpact is very, very much there
the entire time.
Because you're thinking abouteven when he's not on screen
(20:07):
whatever, the last scene withhim in it was.
Whatever it was, you are still,whatever he said, you are still
Carson (20:18):
You're thinking about his words?
Yes.
Preston (20:21):
he said and part of that is.
It's twofold again, because it'sthe writing and it's also his
performance, but you're thinkingabout what he said, how it
applies to what you're watchingnow within the story.
Whether it is something aboutBuffalo Bill, the serial killer
that they're trying to catch,whether it's something about
Clarice he's kind of doing thischaracter deconstruction of, and
(20:42):
then the film kind of goes withit and shows you it is really
incredible because he's.
On your mind somehow becausethat performance is so chilling.
And because the script and hisdialogue lends itself to the
story as a whole, and you'rejust thinking about impact that
he leaves on you and how itcarries into scenes that he's
(21:05):
not on screen for at all.
Carson (21:09):
And he also like not to mention post the, the ambulance
scene.
I mean, it cuts away.
And then he's not in the movieagain until the phone call at
the end.
Preston (21:20):
Yeah.
Carson (21:20):
That's insane.
Preston (21:22):
He's gone.
Carson (21:23):
Um,
Preston (21:23):
the third
Carson (21:24):
but like,
Preston (21:24):
raves about.
Carson (21:26):
yes, but like the entire setup of it and her, I will
never forget like the whole lineabout these serial killers, like
coveting and like the wholething of the coveting wasn't
right in front of you.
And then them figuring out thatit's.
He must have known the firstvictim because yada, yada, yada.
Like that whole through line isfa was like, oh, everything is
(21:49):
clicking together of like theirdynamic going back and forth.
And part of it, why I think it'sso engaging is they smartly put
all this through Jodi Foster'scharacter and it's like we're
learning with her and also like.
Kind of going back and forth andfiguring things out, and it
makes you feel like you're,you're right in the thick of it.
And I think that was a reallysmart move.
(22:11):
We should probably also mentionthat like, this is based off a
book, which I did not know goinginto it until I read after,
which is fascinating and,paraphrasing here, but I saw
another one of these reviewslike talking about how.
Oh, here it is.
And yeah, again, back to the NewYork Times review, the original,
1991 February review.
(22:33):
The dialogue is tough and sharpliterate without being literary.
And I think that is fantasticbecause they somehow took
something that could probably bevery in.
I'm curious to read the book.
I probably will read the bookafter all this, something could
probably be very drawn out ininternal and I can see
definitely scenes like.
(22:54):
After she leaves Hannibal'scell, there's probably a whole
chapter of like what she'sthinking for the first time and
probably the flashbacks with allof her childhood stuff is
probably elaborated more, butthe way, the choices the movie
makes to adapt it in such a way,I think is so smart for it being
a book.
And the dialogue feels, likenatural, like it feels like it's
(23:16):
this world that it's setting up.
And I think that's when, youknow, there's a really special
script is like you just loseyourself.
You're not, thinking about thedialogue once other than the
actual mystery of the words.
Sometimes in more modern movies,I'm like, man, this feels like,
it's not even like brain rotdialogue.
I would describe it as like.
Netflix dialogue where it's likethey're betting on that,
(23:39):
somebody's half watching, sothere's all this fluff in the
beginning and the end of scenesbecause they want to fill time
and then they'll only wanna putthe information and the middle
of the scene, if that makessense.
And so it's like, oh, what didyou do today?
Well, you'll never believe whathappened.
And that just like this movie iscutthroat.
(24:02):
And how it, it's just sharp.
It just gets to the point, itgets to the meat of the scene.
Yeah, I know, I know.
Um, I'll find some betteradjectives, but yeah, like
Preston (24:14):
I agree.
Carson (24:15):
the writing is so smart on this movie.
Preston (24:17):
Yeah, it is.
And you know, this brings me to,another point that I really
wanted to talk about, which iswhy I pushed that we do this
movie.
Because when we were discussingwhat movie to watch, you
mentioned this is based off of abook.
The reason that I wanted to dothis movie is because you texted
me the list of movies that youhadn't seen that you were
(24:39):
looking at watching this falland this was on it I had just
finished.
I mean, I was, the credits wererolling when you texted me this,
which is crazy.
I didn't tell you this, but thecredits were rolling of this
new.
Documentary on Hulu, and it'scalled Ted Bundy Dialogue with
the Devil.
(24:59):
And that is important forSilence of the Lambs because it
is Silence of the Lambs.
The book Silence of the Lambswas based on, obviously these
are fictional characters, withinSilence of the Lambs, but it was
based on a real life scenarioinspired by a real life
scenario, which Robert Keppel.
Who was trying to catch theGreen River Killer who was
(25:21):
killing in the Seattle area.
Ted Bundy offered to help him.
Ted Bundy already locked up,escaped all of his whole saga
was over.
He was on death's row.
In an effort to try to extendhis life, to try to postpone his
execution, Ted Bundy reached outalso in an effort to sort of
like, they talk a little bitabout it in this documentary
(25:45):
about how he felt a sort ofpride, maybe because it was the
Seattle area, somewhere that TedBundy had killed and a serial
killer maybe, territorial inthat regard, knowing that
there's another one out therekilling people.
But he reached out to BobKeppel, to say, I can help you
catch the Green River Killer.
And they recorded.
All of it.
And so it's all,
Carson (26:06):
Wow.
Preston (26:07):
with Bob Keppel who basically, and again, they go
into it di the documentaries onHulu called Ted Mundy Dialogue
with the Devil.
talk about, how this was sort ofthe way that they began to learn
how to speak.
At just plainly how to speakserial killers, how to interview
a serial killer, how to get intothe mind of a serial killer,
(26:30):
because while they are gettingTed Bundy's quote unquote, help
to catch the Green River Killer,they knew that they could not
get into Ted Bundy's help.
knew that Ted Bundy could nothelp them without revealing some
of his own secrets.
And Bob Keppel.
Had tried and failed in the pastto get evidence of Bundy killing
(26:53):
eight girls in his area.
He was convicted for somethingelse, for a different murder,
his execution, all of that wasthrough Florida.
This was elsewhere in thecountry because he had fled, and
so he was using these interviewsin which they're trying to kind
of obviously get his help tocatch the Green River Killer,
but he was also using them in away.
To try to get to the bottom andget him to confess eight other
(27:17):
murders, Bundy, eight othermurders in the area that he had
never confessed to, to givesome, some peace of mind to the
families of those eight girlsthat Ted Bundy did kill.
And he did get confessions.
Confessions for all eight.
And it's just a, it's afantastic documentary.
It's five parts, I think maybefour or five on Hulu and man.
(27:37):
The second I saw,'cause theymentioned Silence of the Lambs
quite a bit in the documentarybecause it's what inspired the,
I mean, what's, how can youeven, you know, you take
yourself back.
It's like the idea of using oneserial killer to try to catch
another is like the most insane,like.
Frankly demented thing you canthink of.
(28:00):
But it happened in real life andit kind of was the beginning of
how they investigate serialkillers in a lot of ways.
And it led to a film likeSilence of the Lambs, which
still has a few, inspirationsand, little nuggets, Easter
eggs, if you will, that nod toreal life.
Carson (28:20):
Yeah, that it was based, that the book based it on
basically.
Preston (28:24):
Yeah.
Carson (28:25):
That's crazy.
Preston (28:26):
the one thing that I picked up on pretty quickly, in
Silence of the Lambs, you've gotBuffalo Bill, and he like puts
the, this is so gross.
He like puts the bug thing in
Carson (28:38):
Uh,
Preston (28:38):
throats,
Carson (28:40):
yes.
Preston (28:41):
And not only is he putting them in the river, but
he's based on the Green RiverKiller.
Like he's the killer thatthey're trying to use another
serial killer to catch.
And the Green River Killer,river is right there.
Obviously that's a connection.
But then also one thing that theGreen River Killer did, and this
is like, is really graphic, butwe've been talking about serial
(29:03):
killers, the entire show.
like, sorry if you're listeningin this.
Is gross to you, but thisactually happened.
Green River Killer kill hisvictims and then there was a lot
of necrophilia going on with himas well.
And he would put rocks inside ofvictim's vaginas he left them.
(29:29):
I hear that watching thedocumentary, I hear about that.
I know you're like, your spinechills even hearing about that.
But
Carson (29:35):
Yeah.
Yeah,
Preston (29:36):
heard that kind of watching the documentary and
they mentioned that that wassomething that he did.
then when I was watching Silenceof the Lambs and I see them just
pull this bug out of this girl'sthroat, I was like, because I
Carson (29:49):
dude.
Talk about a scene.
Preston (29:51):
happened.
Carson (29:53):
Yeah, that must have been like an extra weird scene
for you then.
'cause that scene is crazy thatlike, it's also a great
character scene.
As crazy as like, the focus ofthe scene is, she has to like,
kind of like hide and underneathshe, she can't like be reactive.
(30:14):
Like they, they put that stuffon under their nose and then
there's like.
I think it's so smart that wedon't see the body on the table
for like a good two, threeminutes.
We're just getting her reactionsas Clarice is.
Like, this is the first timethat anything, like this,, she
goes from.
In training to like, you know,this is kind of like a very
(30:38):
controlled high school, collegeenvironment.
Like, you know, they're going onmorning runs and they're
quizzing each other.
Like, you gotta ace the testtoday.
And you know, there's like, oh,you didn't check your corner
there.
You're dead.
Thanks coach.
Like, it's all this controlled,training.
And then she gets literallythrown into this.
Based off the whim of this, ofthe one superior, basically
(31:01):
needing any connection, any sortof leg up on this entire
scenario with Buffalo Bill andthen for her to get to this
town.
Basically had to like deal withhaving zero authority, zero
people taking her seriously.
It's all these guys standingaround in the room being like,
oh, that scene is so awkwardwhen she's standing in the,
(31:22):
funeral home and they're justlike, he leaves and then she's
there.
Preston (31:26):
moments, sorry to interrupt, but one of my
favorite moments, to your point,and it's on the theme of sexism,
which is just extremely wellexplored, both spoken and
unspoken, throughout this movie.
One of the unspoken ways that Ireally loved early in the movie,
it shows her getting into anelevator, as the only woman in
the elevator, and
Carson (31:45):
Yes.
Preston (31:46):
her is a man.
I thought it was just brilliantbecause every single extra that
they cast to be in this elevatorwas at least a foot taller than
her.
And
Carson (31:57):
so tall.
Preston (31:57):
And the shot
Carson (31:58):
it was like all the red shirts, right?
Preston (32:00):
Yep.
It was about to say they're allwearing red and you just, god,
you feel her smallness,
Carson (32:05):
Claustrophobic.
Preston (32:06):
Yeah.
Carson (32:07):
Yes.
Preston (32:08):
Things
Carson (32:08):
And then, yeah, the few,
Preston (32:10):
ways that it implements the themes of the movie so well.
Carson (32:15):
yeah.
And then anyways, back to the,the, the scene where she's like,
there's something in, in thisgirl's throat, and they pull out
that bug and, it's, it's justsuch a fascinating journey that
like, and then they, it goes tolike, she sort of becomes like
the expert and then she kind ofgets kicked off the case again.
You kind of had the hospital guybullying himself.
(32:37):
I thought that press conferencescene was hilarious.
Where he's like, we don't have aname yet, but my name is Charles
Milton or whatever.
Preston (32:47):
Yeah.
Carson (32:48):
So you have all this weaseling for control.
And she kind of gets this crashcourse on the cruelty of the
normal world too.
And I think that's sort of theallure of her talking to
Hannibal too, is she needs a waythrough her world just as much
as the case needs to be solved,if that makes sense.
He's sort of like this bouncingboard for her rise and role in
(33:13):
the FBI and the situation ofwhat she can achieve.
And you know, it's fascinating.
It's just like you couldn'tinvent a better, more
interesting dynamic for thischaracter to bounce off of.
And then for him to leave midwaythrough the second act, like we
mentioned earlier.
And then have her finish out herarc I thought was so smart is
(33:36):
like she takes control of thesituation and everything leading
up to her eventually shootingBuffalo bill in the basement.
It's crazy moment to see her goon that journey.
Preston (33:47):
Yeah, you talked a little bit about what they do.
The little switcheroo that theydo, in
Carson (33:53):
Yes, yes.
At the coming in the door,
Preston (33:56):
right when she's at, at his door.
And gonna be honest, like I,maybe I'm, I thought I was a
smarter movie watcher, man.
I'll tell you that.
Uh,
Carson (34:06):
I'm telling you, you get, you get lulled in.
It's not your fault.
Preston (34:10):
Yeah.
I thought I would not be trickedby something like that.
Even if you're not tricked,right?
I was tricked.
But even if you're not trickedby something like that, you can
still see it and be like, oh,they did that.
Well, I really appreciate that.
That was awesome what they did.
when you're tricked by it, and Iwas, just blown away.
I mean, I think part of it isbecause.
The pacing of the movie is soperfect in that it is just
(34:34):
constantly keeping you engagedto the point where you're not
really thinking about first,second, and third act.
When you're watching this thing,you're not really
Carson (34:44):
Oh, not at all.
Preston (34:45):
story structure.
You're not really thinkingabout, What we're leading to.
I mean, maybe you are thinkingabout what we're leading to, but
you're not necessarily thinkingabout how close we are to it.
You're not thinking about,when's the movie gonna end?
How long has it been since itstarted?
Those sorts of things.
Even in other good movies, youmight think of that kind of
stuff.
Whenever you're in the middle ofwatching, you're not thinking
about that at all.
So I was realizing that we wereabout to hit the beginning of
(35:08):
that third act that we wereabout to hit this climactic
moment, of her.
Catching Buffalo Bill,obviously, you know that that's
probably eventually going to bethe way this thing ends,
whenever they say we got him,the FBI guy is on the phone with
her, he says, we got him, we gota name, we're on the way.
We got the address, we're gonnago get him.
didn't buy that, you know, I, Inever really thought, oh yeah,
(35:29):
that's just the
Carson (35:30):
Yeah, it was too.
It was too wrapped up.
Preston (35:32):
Yeah, that would've been, that was just too, too
quick and too easy at the sametime.
I thought that she was gonnaopen the door and just find
somebody else to interview aboutBuffalo Bill.
I, I thought that they were justgonna be at the wrong place.
She was gonna get one moreinterview and then maybe she
goes and finds him after that.
But, the way that they cut thattogether with them, you know,
(35:53):
the SWAT team surrounding thehouse in one end, and again, you
kind of get this juxtapositionof.
At one house, you've got thefull FBI team, the full SWAT
team.
They're surrounding the house,their guns are drawn, they're
ready to go.
Like whoever's in that house isgetting caught done deal.
There is no chance on the otherend.
(36:16):
You've got,
Carson (36:17):
in the gift grab.
I wish I, we just had to say isit's fantastic.
Like what a, they pull out thetruck and everything.
It is so funny.
Preston (36:26):
But, and it's all ready to go on this.
And, and then on the other end,you've got a college student
who's just doing some interviewsand like she's just door
knocking it's just her and wehaven't seen her.
Correct.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I don't think we've seen herpull a gun.
I don't think we've seen her inany sort of real action other
than simulated action.
And she does the interviews withHannibal Lecter, but we haven't
seen her face a real situationlike this yet
Carson (36:51):
Yep.
Preston (36:52):
movie.
And so you do feel like she'snot necessarily safe, like you
don't feel like she's preparedto handle this type of a thing.
You haven't seen her do it.
In the movie yet.
And so you have this entirely,controlled situation from the
FBI's perspective on one end andthen they're totally at the
wrong place.
(37:12):
And then you've got this othersituation where she is just out
there in the open, you know,anything could happen to her, to
the point where when you seethat it's Buffalo Bill who opens
the door for her, and thatreveal of,
Carson (37:25):
Ugh.
Preston (37:26):
oh my god.
Carson (37:28):
And it's so smart that we've already seen him by this
point because.
Preston (37:31):
yeah.
Carson (37:33):
Then it, that moment clicks so much more, especially
with like the door cracked andyou just see him and then, he's
like, come on in.
You're like, no, no, no, no, no.
And you start to put togetherlike
Preston (37:45):
You watch
Carson (37:45):
the whole mom thing.
Preston (37:48):
and she sees the all of the
Carson (37:50):
Oh, it's so good.
Preston (37:52):
Yeah.
Carson (37:53):
The sewing.
Yeah.
It's like the sewing threads andthe whatever else is laying
around in the kitchen becauselike that whole first floor is
like kind of like a false kindof deal.
It doesn't look normal, but itlooks normal as.
A relative term, and it was justlike, but then it starts to
creep in and oh my gosh, themoment she drops the gun and he
(38:15):
runs to the other room andthere's that cutaway to the gun
prior to him grabbing it, andthen he grabs it, oh, you best
believe my volume was going downto like negative forward dude.
As soon as she like found thatother door, and I'm like, I,
this, that's where, HowardShor's score was just going
crazy.
And I'm like, it's, it's toocreepy.
I'm, I just start turning thevolume down and then I would
(38:37):
just start turning it up alittle and then I'd turn it back
down and then that stupid crustydog would start barking and I'm
like, oh my God, get outta here.
I don't want to hear anythingabout this dog anymore.
Preston (38:47):
Dude,
Carson (38:48):
was perfectly fine.
Fine dog.
It just was annoying.
Preston (38:51):
I was watching with my dog.
Who hates seeing other dogs
Carson (38:59):
This must have been, they must have dropped the whole
star on their letterbox review.
It's.
Preston (39:04):
ADA, little, little Miss Ada did not, like that.
I deal with it whenever she,whenever you hear a dog or
something and she like, she'lljump up.
Obviously like dogs when they'relaying on your lap as a man,
have a really great knack forfinding the one place on a man's
body that you don't want
Carson (39:21):
Yeah.
Preston (39:22):
directly stepped on, but she's really good at that.
So like I, I've gotten used tolike bracing myself for it in
scenarios like this.
So anyway, they get, princess isthe dog's name, I think, right?
Carson (39:34):
Yes.
Which is hilarious.
Preston (39:36):
and it's this scene where Catherine, the senator's
daughter who's in the well or
Carson (39:42):
Yeah.
Takes, takes the dog hostage.
Preston (39:45):
She's trying to take the dog hostage.
ADA jumps up, she's like, God,she's staring at the screen.
She's like going nuts.
And I'm just like, you learn todeal with it.
But, I'm a protective dog dad,right?
She's the little baby.
She's probably a little pamperedtoo much.
She's definitely a littlepampered too much.
But I'm watching this and I'mlike, oh shit.
Perfect little angel.
My baby thinks that this isreal.
(40:08):
I haven't seen this movie beforeand I'm like, there's a real
chance that this dog's neck getssnapped in half in the next
Carson (40:15):
dude,
Preston (40:16):
30 seconds, and
Carson (40:18):
and sidebar on that.
Preston (40:21):
So I
Carson (40:21):
yeah.
You had to like cover her eyes.
Preston (40:24):
I you, your daddy is not allowing you to watch this
movie anymore.
Carson (40:28):
They, they should have put the disclaimer in the New
York Times review that Imentioned that your, your dog
should not be allowed.
To watch, because speaking ofdogs being harmed in movies,
that sounds horrible.
Kelly has not seen the John Wickmovies and we watched John Wick
one and two this weekend, beforeI watched this movie she knows
(40:49):
that the dog dies in the firstmovie.
I'm giving the full husbandbreakdown.
Here's what you need to knowabout the scene.
Here's the type of dog, here'sthe situation.
You're gonna see revenge aboutthe dog.
There's gonna be another dog.
Eventually, you just need tojust like.
Just wait.
Just everything is going to beokay.
It is a fictional character.
(41:11):
It's a fictional dog.
No dogs were harmed in themaking of this movie, but when
it happened, she was like, justthrowing pitchforks, man.
And I was just like, it is it,it does make it stressful.
And when she had that dog downthere and it was like the lights
were off and, sorry.
Back to Silence of Lambs.
And he's walking in and he firstdiscovers that, catherine has
(41:33):
the dog down there.
I'm like, oh crap.
And also, I'm just nowremembering that when he, he
grabbed the gun and then we getthat creepy doorbell cut when
they're ringing the doorbell,the FBI's ringing the doorbell
and then Clarice is ringing thedoorbell and, His creepy bell
that rings underneath the houseto like, let him know that
(41:54):
there's someone at the doorbellwas terrifying.
Preston (41:57):
But you
Carson (41:57):
That was an insane editing moment.
Preston (41:59):
that it
Carson (42:00):
I know, I know.
That was before you getrevealed.
Preston (42:02):
Or the FBI, you still
Carson (42:05):
Yes, I.
Preston (42:07):
And that's, I, it's so, it's just so well done.
Yeah.
I'm enamored by this movie.
I loved it I'm a wuss.
I don't know how else to saythat.
I tried to find a way not to saythat I don't
Carson (42:18):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (42:18):
scares and I don't like, I especially don't like
cheap jump scares that do notfeel earned.
If, if a movie has like earnedthe right to scare me with a
jump scare, I'm okay with it.
This movie has zero jump scares.
Fun fact.
I don't know if you knew
Carson (42:32):
And, you know, it was even,
Preston (42:33):
about it, but none
Carson (42:35):
ugh,
Preston (42:36):
and I was more terrified than any movie that
has jump scared me.
I'll tell you that.
Carson (42:40):
we had to circle back to the beginning where I was told
you I was scared of the lights,the whole freaking scene with
the night vision.
Which one?
Terrifying.
During the actual kidnappingscene of Kathryn, that was
terrifying, number one.
Number two, it comes back and heturns off the lights and then
turns on the night vision.
(43:02):
Um,
Preston (43:02):
The way
Carson (43:03):
when Kathryn, or, uh oh,
Preston (43:05):
That whole
Carson (43:06):
when.
Preston (43:06):
showdown through his POV?
Carson (43:09):
Is terrifying.
One is the Is, yeah.
'cause like she's right in frontof him and he's like almost
grabbing her hair and she'smoving and like one of the most
terrifying scenes
Preston (43:19):
yeah.
Carson (43:20):
Like
Preston (43:21):
The way that
Carson (43:21):
straight up.
Preston (43:22):
through his point of view, especially because like
going into that, you don't seehim for a solid like minute and
a half, two minutes.
Carson (43:30):
No.
So
Preston (43:31):
of
Carson (43:32):
she's going around the house, she's clearing every
room.
Katherine screaming, and thenall of a sudden you get a hard
cut to the, the eyes of thenight vision turning on.
Preston (43:45):
And you're
Carson (43:46):
That's the first time you've seen him in minutes.
Preston (43:48):
I know who wears
Carson (43:50):
My gut dropped and my volume went, my volume went back
down to negative five.
No, no, no, no, no.
Preston (43:59):
Man, that was so good.
It's such a great way to end it.
And to kind of just things up, Iliked the way the movie wrapped
things up as well because youget the phone call at the end
and that shot of Hannibalfollowing the doctor that
tormented him when he was inprison.
That shot lasts for the entirecredits also, which I kind of
thought was cool.
Carson (44:18):
Yes.
Preston (44:19):
the shot is like five, six minutes long.
Like he, he's way like Hannibalwalks off screen and the credits
are still going and you just seethe street.
I thought that was neat.
But the line that they give of,having an old friend for dinner
like that is
Carson (44:34):
Oh yes.
Preston (44:35):
It's so creepy, but it's so like and on the nose.
It's one of those lines.
It's an iconic line, you know,it's an iconic, villain killer,
line that just, sticks with you.
I thought it was
Carson (44:48):
So perfectly delivered.
Preston (44:49):
button on, on the whole
Carson (44:51):
Yes.
It's like the ice, it's like theicing on the cake.
Preston (44:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I
Carson (44:57):
And
Preston (44:57):
that.
Carson (44:57):
I had a gut feeling he was coming back.
But the way he did it was justlike the stamp on the movie,
man.
Exactly what you're saying.
Like,
Preston (45:05):
act is
Carson (45:05):
oh.
Preston (45:06):
enthralling without him.
That whole face off with her andBuffalo bill and all of that is
just so enthralling without himat all that you kind of, you
don't forget about him, but alsoit's so good that.
You're kind of like not asconcerned of when's Hannibal
(45:28):
gonna come back?
Where's Hannibal?
Because when he escapes, you'relike, oh, where's he gonna go?
What's he gonna do?
Is he gonna go after Clarice?
What's gonna happen?
But then everything they do withClarice and Buffalo Bill, which
is the actual story that's sofreaking good that.
not
Carson (45:44):
You forget.
Preston (45:45):
with Hannibal to the point where maybe you do forget
about him, but you don't forgetabout him entirely.
But you don't care as muchnecessarily where he's headed,
what he's doing, uh, to thepoint where when he comes back
again, it's the very last scenejust right at the end.
You're like, oh, oh, oh my god.
Right.
Yeah, him, the whole reason thatI got roped into this movie, the
whole reason that I locked in,you know, an hour and a half
(46:07):
ago.
Really great stuff.
Carson (46:10):
And not to mention like.
The line to of, well, Claricehave the lamb stop screaming.
The whole, the whole like, thisis like an even more incredible
way of like when they say thetitle in the movie and you're
like, you're like, oh, I under,and you're like Leo DiCaprio.
And once upon Time in Hollywood,like I understood the reference.
(46:32):
Like that was like the ultimate.
Moment in this movie whereyou're like, oh my gosh.
But like in the char, in thecontext of the character, you
know, she's getting sworn intothe FBI, you know, everything's
on the upswing, and then boom,hit her with this psychological
Preston (46:48):
Torture.
Carson (46:49):
Of a line delivery and then goes right into the line
about I'm meeting a friend fordinner, and I'm like, oh my
gosh.
Preston (46:56):
Yep.
Yep.
Crazy stuff.
Crazy stuff.
Carson (47:00):
I can't imagine seeing this movie in 1991 in theaters
like
Preston (47:04):
No.
way.
I don't even know how I would.
Yeah.
It's like I would've loved tosee this movie in theaters and I
would've loved to see it knowingthat all my friends were seeing
it, and then talk with themafterward.
I would've loved to have thatkind of experience
Carson (47:17):
the Water Cooler Talk on Monday.
For like after the weekend, thismovie came out, probably was
like one of the most elite watercooler talks.
You can just see it now.
And then he wore his face onhim.
Like, you know, like it's justlike the whole day would've been
wasted and it would've been likethe best day, unproductive day
(47:37):
at work.
Ever talking about this movie?
Preston (47:38):
on
Carson (47:39):
Yes.
Preston (47:39):
I'll tell you that I'm getting no work done.
My emails, I'll email a coworkeracross the room about this movie
if I
Carson (47:45):
No, no, they didn't have email Preston.
They didn't, I actually, Ishould stop talking.
They probably did have email in1991, but it was probably very,
very slow.
Preston (47:54):
I'm lost in, I feel almost
Carson (47:58):
We,
Preston (47:58):
but I'm knocking on the door.
I'm sending a fax.
Do they have that in 1991?
I don't know.
Whatever.
I'm lighting my, I'm sending aRaven the
Carson (48:07):
it's, it's.
Was it, was it, oh, it was glassonion, right?
Where they, the one creepybillionaire Ed Norton guy, like
sends faxes to people.
Am I crazy?
Preston (48:18):
yeah.
Speaking of
Carson (48:20):
Yes,
Preston (48:21):
out, it's coming soon.
Wake up dead man
Carson (48:24):
I know it.
Uh, speaking of fall vibes, likea,
Preston (48:29):
episode of Zoll
Carson (48:30):
like
Preston (48:31):
Yeah.
Carson (48:31):
cathedrals, we are definitely doing his iPod
episode on that.
Preston (48:35):
We,
Carson (48:35):
It's gonna be.
Preston (48:36):
on wake up Dead man, but also like the whole trilogy.
Carson (48:42):
Let's do it.
Preston (48:43):
do the other two as well.
Carson (48:44):
I already need to rewatch, glass onion
specifically because I've seenit twice, but that was like two,
it, I watched it once intheaters on Thanksgiving with my
family, and then I watched itChristmas break.
On Netflix.
So it's been since, when didthat movie come out?
(49:06):
2022.
Does that sound right?
Preston (49:08):
I
Carson (49:08):
I think 2022.
Preston (49:10):
Yeah.
Carson (49:10):
So it's been three years since I've seen that movie.
Preston (49:13):
been a while for me as well.
We'll, we'll definitely get intothat.
That's just a little tease ofwhat may or may not be coming up
on Solly pod.
Carson (49:21):
If we start speaking in, monograms and fall and like when
she's like, has the notepad outand she's like trying to figure
out what, that like whateverfriend, like, storage places,
like we'll just start at the endof every podcast because we
totally have our next episodeplan.
Guys,
Preston (49:37):
Absolutely
Carson (49:38):
start doing cryptic.
Preston (49:41):
really well.
Carson (49:42):
Call us the sequel Star Wars sequel trilogy the way
we're planned right now.
Okay, we're gonna have to cutthat.
Preston (49:52):
And on that note, no, I don't think we should.
I don't wanna cut that.
I love it personally.
On that note, I think that's it.
I think that's a good time towrap it up, and call it for this
one.
Carson, I'm glad we got to watchthis movie.
Silence of the Lambs.
Absolutely fantastic.
I'm excited for future episodesthat are all planned out
extremely well, just as well asthe Star Wars sequel Trilogy
(50:15):
was.
And, I'm excited for Wake UpDead Man, and I'm excited for
Halloween and I am just, I'mglad to have had this episode
and I'm looking forward to whatwe got going on next.
Carson (50:25):
Absolutely.
And we will hopefully bementioning some more horror
films throughout the fall,through the holiday season, some
other stuff.
Yeah, it's just gonna be fun tobreak down other movies and
share these moments.
I know like, gosh, it's so hardto both watch a movie.
Not tell anybody about it.
Wait till the episode to discussit.
(50:46):
But also like, we're likesending texts beforehand and
it's like, oh, I don't wanna gotoo far and I don't wanna talk
about this.
'cause then we've already havetalked about it.
Preston (50:53):
you about, because I know we're gonna have like
Carson (50:55):
Yes, yes.
So I just love that you likeyour last text to me.
I was like, yeah, that'sinteresting.
And I just thought it was sofunny that like, alright, we
gotta like, we gotta tame itdown.
We gotta make sure we have.
Preston (51:10):
Yeah.
Carson (51:11):
you're gonna No.
Preston (51:12):
stuff though.
Great movie.
time talking about it.
Looking forward to the next one.
For those of you listening, ifyou have not subscribed yet to
our podcast, make sure you do.
We're on all differentplatforms.
Follow us on social media at ZPod, and we will have more
content coming up for you.
More episodes coming up verysoon.
Looking forward to everything,that we have in the works.
(51:34):
So, with that.
I have been Preston Mooresigning off for myself and
Carson Terrell, my co-host, andwe will see you guys at the
movies and at the next one.
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