November 26, 2025 • 57 mins
Carson and Preston have been changed… For Good? The boys dive into a detailed critique of both 'Wicked' movies, expressing both anticipation and disappointment. Additionally, they explore the broader implications of adapting the popular Broadway musical and speculate on the future of the franchise.
Subscribe to Zollypod on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more
Follow Zollypod on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook
Follow Preston on Twitter and Instagram
Follow Carson on Twitter, Instagram and Threads
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Preston (00:19):
Welcome into Zoll Pod.
I am Preston Moore.
Joined alongside as always,Carson Terrell.
Carson, we've got, a goodepisode coming up, an exciting
episode, one that you and I bothkind of have been looking
forward to doing for a littlewhile now.
It's gonna be a wicked episode.
One might say,
Carson (00:37):
Halloween is over.
Halloween is over, but wickedseason is not.
It's just a different kind ofwicked.
And it's funny, like if youwould've asked me a year ago,
would you be reviewing bothWicked movies in a podcast
episode, I probably would'vesaid no.
'Cause I don't really have ahistory with the musical of
(00:58):
this, and I, I want to get intoyour lore with this in a second,
but I don't have much historywith this.
And really the ramp up to thefilm.
Was my introduction to this, themusical and then movie.
So it's been a very interestingride because obviously this has
become one of the most popularfranchises in the last two
(01:20):
years.
I think Wicked Part One was thehighest grossing movie in the US
all year until I think it stillholds a title from a year ago of
the highest grossing US movie.
So obviously very popular.
And yeah, there's a lot to likeabout these movies.
It's a lot of fun and I'mexcited to kind of dive into it.
Preston (01:42):
Yeah, definitely.
And you mentioned it has beenhuge.
I mean, I don't wanna say thatI'm surprised, but I'm
definitely, well, I am a littlesurprised by the level of,
Carson (01:53):
Yeah.
Preston (01:54):
of popularity of fame that Wicked has gotten over the
course of the last, you know,year and a half or so.
Ever since the first onereleased, obviously it was a
really big ip, but you hit thenail on the head.
It has become one of the mostpopular franchises, so much to
the point that.
Now, even today as we'rerecording this, I believe the
president of Universal or, orsomebody, said that they are
(02:16):
hoping, or that they feel as ifthey have a responsibility was
the word, to continue this quoteunquote franchise somehow, which
is very interesting.
And that's something that Iexpected to be honest, given how
well both of these films did inthe box office, total hits.
Carson (02:35):
Yeah, and it's wild too.
It's like, it's kind ofinteresting'cause like.
Obviously Ariana Grande is ahuge star, right?
And Cynthia Ervo is like anincredible, like talent and then
like, putting them together,like it, honestly, they became
their own franchise as well.
And so it's like, obviously itstarted with the marketing and
the memes all last year.
(02:56):
Like I'm holding space for the,that whole meme blew up.
But I feel like the all-Outmarketing blitz is probably one
of the craziest things I've seenin the past couple years too.
Like, you could not go anywherelast year when this movie was
first coming out, you could goto the, the grocery store and
it'd be like, get the pink andgreen cereal.
(03:18):
It's like they masterfully didit and it was like, it was so
crazy.
And then I finally saw the movieand I was like, oh, this is what
it's about.
Because, yeah, it was kind ofjust a marketing thing for me at
first, and I'm seeing all thebehind the scenes.
I'm like, oh yeah, it's tied toWizard of Oz, but I don't really
know how it's gonna tie in.
And I guess just to set this up,like, so I watch the movie in
(03:40):
theaters last year, um, with my,then
Preston (03:44):
seen the musical beforehand?
You mentioned this
Carson (03:47):
no, I had, I had not read the book'cause Okay, so
it's based on a book.
Right.
Preston (03:53):
I.
Carson (03:53):
Which then was, turned into the musical and now was
then consequently adapted.
Anyways, so yeah, no, this wasliterally my first time
experiencing any of it was last,last time.
And I remember people just likeclapping during the songs.
Like, it was like very like, ohmy gosh, like this is like very
hype for people.
And I was like, yeah, this is,I'm buying like I rewatched the,
(04:17):
the first movie.
In preparation for part two lastweekend.
And I was like, man, say whatyou wanna say about the movie.
But every, all the songs in partone are like insanely well done,
probably everyone of'em is likea radio smash.
It, it's kind of insane.
And I wanna talk a little bitabout your experience too.
'cause like, this hit me a yearago and then I was surprised
(04:38):
when we were talking about like,episode ideas a couple weeks ago
of like, oh yeah, I've neverseen The Wicked, never seen the
Wicked Movie a year later.
And I was like, if anyone wereto see the Wicked movie, I
thought you were gonna be theone to see it.
I'm shocked.
Walk me through, where were youa year ago and why did you not
(04:59):
go see this?
What happened?
Preston (05:01):
that's a good question.
It's funny that you say thatbecause, that's been much
everybody has said that, uh,that
Carson (05:10):
Yeah.
Preston (05:11):
I've mentioned that I didn't see it, or any time that
it's come up or whatever thecase may be like it has been.
You know, you what you just gaveme was a little bit less, uh,
than I get from most people.
Most people are like, abactually just disgusted by the
fact that I haven't seen it.
And one number one, shockedbecause anybody that knows me,
(05:34):
I'm a musical person, you know,I've done theater.
Like, I worked at Disney WorldWicked's, not Disney, but like,
come on.
I mean, there are a lot ofsimilarities between like the
Wizard of Oz and,
Carson (05:44):
Yes, totally.
Preston (05:45):
Disney puts out and all of that.
It's just my niche and, so a lotof people really have been
shocked that I didn't see it.
And at the time I was justreally busy.
I didn't see many movies at alllast year.
That came out last year.
I've caught up on a bunch WickedPart one being one of those
movies now.
But yeah, I was just, I wasinsanely busy at the time and I
(06:05):
just wasn't seeing a lot ofmovies.
One of the reasons that I didn'tmake an effort to kind of clear
my schedule and go see WickedPart One, when it came out, even
after, it got pretty solidreviews, obviously a slew of
Oscar nominations, which reallysurprised me at the time, and
honestly surprised me even stillnow having seen it.
But, even after the goodreviews, I just thought visually
(06:32):
that it looked like shit.
Like I just thought it looked sougly.
I thought I was like this.
It was letting me down.
It was letting me down in a lotof ways.
I had seen Wicked on stage onBroadway, and obviously anybody
that's seen that show onBroadway walks away really
amazed.
(06:53):
You know, it is one of thegreatest Broadway musicals of
all time.
I haven't read the book, but,Everybody knows that it's one of
the greatest musicals of allTime Act One of that musical is
maybe one of the greatest acts,put to stage ever.
And, you know, the originalBroadway cast stars like Kristin
Chinwe, Idina Menzel, who wenton to do things with her voice
(07:16):
that everybody has heard nowsince in Frozen and Frozen two
and whatnot.
And so it's obviously this hugephenomenon.
It's been a huge phenomenon.
I had seen it on stage and Iloved it on stage.
And then I saw via the trailerand TV spots last year.
It just looked ugly and it justlooked like a lot of the movies
(07:36):
that I didn't want to see.
It looked like a lot of themovies that I did not make an
effort to go back to theaters.
I believe a couple months priorI had gone to see, um, and
Wolverine.
And to be honest, like visually.
didn't look like a step up fromthat.
And
Carson (07:53):
Yeah.
Preston (07:53):
as much as do like Wicked, I was never like a
massive wicked on Broadway fan.
I, I was a fan, but I wasn'tlike, you know, you wouldn't,
you wouldn't catch me hangingwicked posters in my room or
anything like that.
And so, you know, it just didn'tlook visually appealing to me.
It didn't look like what itcould be.
And if you've seen it on stage,the visuals of the show on stage
(08:15):
are absolutely phenomenal.
I mean, it's a beautiful,beautiful work of art that they
put on stage and the things thatthey're able to do, with special
effects and makeup obviously.
But beyond that, the staging andthe lighting of it all, it is a
gorgeous, gorgeous show.
And if that's what you've seenout of Wicked, maybe that's what
you expect.
I guess maybe
Carson (08:35):
Yeah.
Preston (08:36):
my head was at.
so my expectations probablyweren't really being met
entirely, having seen it onBroadway.
Now seeing the film.
Again, speaking just from avisual perspective.
So that's why I didn't see itlast year, but I did see it,
with my little brother a coupledays before seeing Wicked for
(08:57):
Good, just to prepare for itbecause I knew I had the time I
was gonna see it with my family.
I needed to see the first onebeforehand.
And, yeah, I mean, it, it was,it was definitely interesting.
I had a friend of mine whobefore seeing either of them, I
told him, I was like, I'm, I'mgonna see, you know, I'm gonna
see part one and then I'm gonnasee for good just a couple days
(09:18):
later.
And he was so mad at me.
He was big theater guy.
He was so mad at me because hewas like, I had to wait a year
in between these movies and, andpart one was such a smash hit, I
mean, regardless of what youthink, that movie was critically
adored as well.
Wicked for Good has not reallynecessarily been critically
(09:39):
adored, compared to the way thatthe audience reaction has been,
which in a way mirrors what ison stage.
But for me, that's kind of mystory with these movies.
I had seen Wicked on Broadway acouple years back.
I had obviously heard a lot ofthe songs before ever even
seeing it on Broadway because itis this iconic, musical.
(10:00):
I didn't see it last year and Icaught all up just here in the
last couple of weeks and I'mexcited to talk about it.
I'm very interested to get yourthoughts on it.
Carson, you went, you did theyear.
You had a year
Carson (10:12):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (10:13):
You might not be the biggest wicked stand that I
know, but you had a year longwait in between part one and for
good.
So what.
Overarching.
I guess maybe we should, maybewe could start a little bit with
part one, but I do want,obviously
Carson (10:27):
Yes.
Preston (10:28):
to be about the movie that just came out, so, but take
me back a year ago when Part onecomes out.
What are your thoughts on all ofthat?
Carson (10:36):
So, yeah, I think I was in a similar boat to you a year
ago.
It is like, obviously we talkabout movies every day with our
friends and whatnot, and youknow, the group chat was group
chatting about this when thistrailer came out.
It was like, you know, theclassic people on Twitter of
like added a color grade, fixedit for the, you know, like, you
(10:59):
know, all the classic tropesthat we get when any big movie
comes out and garners enoughattention it doesn't matter what
it is, there will be somecontroversy.
The day that the first trailerdrops, oh my God, the visual
effects are bad.
Oh my god.
Uh, this sounded horrible.
Oh my gosh.
Uh, why is this person in thisrole?
You know?
So it doesn't matter what it is,but I tend to agree with you.
(11:21):
And I remember seeing the firsttrailer and I'm like, wow, that
doesn't really, in my head I'mthinking, okay, wizard of Oz,
Vista vision, like this, thisgem in cinematic history that
like literally, I mean it'splaying in this, this sphere
(11:42):
now.
Historical, like just some ofthe best kind of imagery put in
colors, put to screen it is justso iconic.
And so seeing sort of the muted,blown out overcast kind of a
style of the cinematography andthe color gray that they'd chose
to envelop the world that theywere trying to of oz that they
(12:04):
were trying to create.
It was so interesting and it'ssomething that I've been kind of
researching just offhand too, oflike, why do movies look like
this?
And we talk about like thedifference between different
blockbusters coming out and it'sso fascinating.
And then, you know, I startreading up on the press tour and
they're interviewing, John Chuand the Cinematographer, and I
(12:27):
think it's important to,establish out the gate that this
is.
This is something they chose,like this is, and it's not just
that, like this is, this ispopular.
Like this is a popular look thathas been deemed as cinematic,
this, this shallow depth offield, blown out background, not
(12:48):
this anti deep focus.
It's all about creating thisshallow depth of field and
making, you know, showing theselenses and differentiating it
from something that you wouldsee on your phone.
And it's so interesting becauseit's like, it's, it's like
what's in vogue right now forcinematography there's people
like, oh my gosh, we need to goshoot.
They should have shot Wicked onfilm so it would look better.
(13:08):
But like, no, it's like this ishow they're choosing to do their
compositions.
Like they think this, theywanted, like, there's a quote of
from the director going aroundof like, we wanted Wicked to
have this sense of like.
Realism to it that like us, theaudience could buy into the
world being real.
(13:28):
Like that, that was theirmentality going into it.
And it's so fascinating becausewhen you think of Oz, I and all
the, the, the animals and allthe colors and the green, the,
the iconic green and the red ofthe, the, uh, Dorothy's red
slippers, like, like yeah.
The yellow brick road, like youthink of some of the most iconic
(13:51):
color palette like you, it's sobaked into the story and it's so
fascinating that it like youapproach this, okay, we're
coming up with the look ofWicked.
Okay, we're going to blast everysingle LED light through the
back of the set.
We're gonna, we're gonna haveamazing sets, but.
Preston (14:10):
that's what I was
Carson (14:11):
We don't want you to see them, we don't want you to see
them.
We are going to blow the crapout of it.
There's gonna be zero deepfocus.
It's all gonna be shot wideopen.
Aperture, like Jonathan Bailey'sgonna be running around and you
can't see the, the, this amazingspinning set.
This is probably one of thebiggest travesties of the first
movie, is that beautiful setduring his first, musical number
(14:34):
in the, what'd you call it?
Cafeteria slash library slash
Preston (14:39):
I
Carson (14:39):
And it's like super imaginative.
Like, you know, it's like, itkind of feels like the,
equivalent of like the HarryPotter, big common room where
they all eat, all eat, you know,dinner and it's the first thing
you see when they get back toschool every time.
And it's like this iconiclocation, but like, oh, it's,
the way they approach it is justsuch a choice.
Like, I don't know how else toput it.
(15:00):
And so I think I, yeah, likeit's, it's fascinating.
Preston (15:03):
lately, there have been these photos, real life photos
of the sets going around saying,what are they gonna do
Carson (15:09):
Yes.
Or just, or just the BTSphotographer, like, you know,
taking, taking onset images, andjust having a standard color
profile baked in.
It's so fascinating.
Putting that up next to stillsfrom the actual movie, like Grit
from the Blu-ray.
Preston (15:24):
Yeah.
And you brought up the lighting.
I think that's one thing.
They do it in both movies.
Carson (15:29):
Yes.
Preston (15:30):
the light is just, just, I don't even know what to
say.
It's like just smashing throughthe back of, and this isn't just
in that scene that youmentioned.
It's in multiple, it's in, it'sin, their like dorm room that
they have at SHI University.
It's in the final big number ofthe first one when she's singing
(15:51):
to find gravity.
Like it's, anytime there's awindow, like the light is just
smashing through the back, andit's coming directly at the
camera to the point where you'renot silhouetted.
Like our figures aren'tsilhouetted, but it kind of just
washes out Gorgeous, oftentimespractical sets that they had, in
(16:13):
camera.
And, and I, I don't wanna saythey lost that because they have
it and it's all there.
It won the Oscar for productiondesign for a good reason.
But at the same time, thesemovies sort of just make me
think of what they could havebeen both of
Carson (16:30):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (16:31):
one thing where I think the, that for good, the second
one kind of falters in a way,is, John m Chu, the director.
I don't think he really doesanything interesting as a
director.
Hardly anything, that I loveabout these films.
Are thanks to imaginativedirection.
You go watch something, like LaLa Land or Steven Spielberg's
(16:53):
West Side Story, and you seethese really imaginative ways to
shoot musical numbers, reallyfantastic, creative, engaging
ways, where the musical numbersfeel alive.
They don't necessarily just feellike a group of people, an
ensemble, stepping and dancingalong to a song.
And I think that John m Truedoesn't really bring that, to
(17:15):
this film, to either of thesefilms, but the
Carson (17:17):
Especially part two.
I was, I wanted to get your takeon this because like a lot of
the, the choreography in partone, the first kind of number
when they arrive at the academyand then also like popular with
all the stuff going on in theroom and like all the stuff Oh,
fantastic.
Like genuinely good, some goodchoreography in camera work, in
(17:40):
those numbers.
And maybe it's like I'm wearingrose tinted glasses or like
seeing,'cause those are likeprobably the best songs of the
entire deal.
Preston (17:50):
That's a big part of it
Carson (17:51):
But then I, yeah, like I noticed in part two, like.
Y you know, you have theselesser songs, but then the, the,
the, choreography and the camerawork to match is just so much
just medium shot hover 360around our character, maybe got
by three seconds of a wide shot,like maybe three seconds, and
(18:14):
then it goes back to justhovering around.
Never did I feel that more thanthe climax of part two.
Which I just emotionally, thatset is just so vacant.
There's like three torches andwe just sit there and Dorothy's
down there in the dungeon andI'm like, what's going on?
Have you seen the memes aroundthat?
(18:35):
It is so, it's so funny.
Preston (18:39):
You know, and, and I
Carson (18:41):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (18:41):
The direction's a lot less inspired in part two.
But I also think, this issomething that has kind of been
known about Wicked on stage forquite some time.
Carson (18:52):
For like 10 years, 15 years.
Preston (18:54):
right?
Act One is an all timer act.
One is incredible.
Act one has this defy Gravity,one of the greatest songs, ever
in musical theater history.
I don't think anybody's gonnafight me on that.
Act one is fantastic.
Act two.
It's a little messier.
Carson (19:13):
Yeah.
You gotta land the plane.
Preston (19:16):
The plot is all kind of, you know, the plot is the
plot.
It's kind of all over the place.
You're tying up a lot of looseends from Act one and beyond
that, the music itself, thesongs, they're not as good.
There's one big hit in Act two,good deed.
And I really thought CynthiaErvo did an incredible job,
(19:39):
really throughout the bothfilms.
I really liked her.
No good deed.
I think she does a great job.
I think for the most part, JohnM.
Chew, I didn't find hisdirecting really inspired in
either film.
Especially in part two, Ithought in part one he could
kind of hide behind the songs alittle bit and hide
Carson (19:59):
Yeah.
Preston (20:00):
the world building a little bit and hide behind, you
know, a lot of the productiondesign.
I mean, it won an Oscar and likeI said, I believe for good
reason, I think it is aphenomenal production design.
It really sweeps you in, in thatfirst film.
And I think John M two is ableto kind of hide behind a lot of
these things in part one that hecan't hide behind anymore.
(20:20):
In part two,
Carson (20:22):
Yep.
Preston (20:22):
design is, well, it's still great, but it's what you
know, you're gonna get, thesongs are by and large a step
down from part one.
Plot itself is extremely messycompared to part one.
You
Carson (20:37):
Oh my gosh.
Preston (20:38):
if you were gonna do a straight adaptation or, you
know, try to keep it a straightadaptation of the Broadway
musical, you knew the plot ofpart two was gonna be a little
bit more difficult to adapt andmake work on screen because it
kind of hardly works on stage,but it works on stage because
you're off the heels of anincredible act.
One that left you speechless.
Carson (20:56):
Yes.
Here's what B, here's what'sbaffling to me.
Here's what's baffling to meresearching this after the fact.
Like not to justify my re my reemotional reaction, like with
research I did after about thewhole history of this thing, but
I didn't know the play is like atight two hours or whatever it
(21:17):
is, or two and a half hours.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Like there's, it's like an hour,then a 20 minute intermission,
and then another hour, or howlong is the play?
Preston (21:26):
I.
Carson (21:26):
Does that sound right?
Preston (21:28):
I'll double check to look it up.
I
Carson (21:29):
Okay.
Preston (21:30):
any like, I don't think it's known to be extremely short
or extremely long.
I think it's just
Carson (21:34):
So just kind of like average play length.
Okay.
So then you, given the nature ofwhat you just said about part
two.
Preston (21:44):
I'm interrupting.
It's two hours and 45 minutes,
Carson (21:47):
Less than the runtime of Avatar.
Okay.
Preston (21:51):
Let's put it in our terms.
Carson (21:52):
There's, yeah.
Preston (21:53):
I can
Carson (21:53):
Speaking language, but, okay, so you have this, and then
you go, it's not gonna be onemovie.
It's going to be two movies.
Okay.
Add up the run times.
Now you're up to like fourhours.
Let's just say two hours.
Each movie.
What's baffling to me, this isthe most baffling thing about
the second movie.
It's somehow longer, but yetadds no context to like half of
(22:19):
the emotional moments that Iwould think, the filmmakers
would go, yeah, now that we havethis extra runtime, let's
develop, Fieros arc a littlemore.
Let's develop S'S arc a littlemore.
Let's develop Tin Man.
Ark a little more and what youget is you get two extra songs
(22:40):
and it feels like we are speedrunning between the songs.
I'd be curious for someone tobreak down the nons song screen
time of this movie versus thenons song screen time of the the
first one because it feels likeyou're just skipping to song, to
song to song.
And it's like that is doing thelegwork of the storytelling.
(23:02):
But the problem is, is you backyourself into a corner because
you're now in movie form andit's a completely different
medium and you can't, you can't,get by with the songs conveying
everything you need to.
Preston (23:15):
just like straight up, not as good.
just
Carson (23:18):
Yes.
Preston (23:19):
one.
Carson (23:20):
you have this double negative going for you where
one, you're trying to get awaywith that the songs are not as
good, and two, they're not asgood as telling the story.
And it's the second half ofwrapping up your character arc.
So you need to like really landthe plane here in terms of
getting the development ofeverybody, past the finish line.
(23:41):
And it was just shocking thatlike a lot of the characters
that are were meaningful to theactual plot.
Madam Marble, the Wizard, likeall the support and character,
like the scaffolding of whatmakes the main characters arcs
supposedly work.
It just felt so empty.
(24:02):
And I was just watching thisgoing like, okay, tin Man's in
the streets now yelling to tokill Alpha and like Nessa iss
going crazy now after like twoseconds of seeing her and just
like hopping to thesecharacters, I'm like, oh, Fieros
gone.
And then, oh, he's, I guess he'swalking on the road.
Okay, great.
(24:23):
And then we just don't see himtill the end.
The stuff like that that I'mjust like,
Preston (24:27):
a lot of
Carson (24:27):
why is the.
Preston (24:28):
you across the face and now you're expected to believe
that
Carson (24:31):
Why does Madam Marble and the Wizard hate the animals
so much?
I still don't know.
Yes, yes.
It's, you know, all the themesof fascism, racism, yes.
It's established, but they don'tdo anything with them.
They do like one scene and theygo, some animals are getting
outta hand.
That's all we get.
Like, just,
Preston (24:52):
Well, here's one of my biggest issues you mentioned
Madam Marble and the Wizard
Carson (24:57):
yes.
Oh
Preston (24:59):
I, and I wanna preface this by saying thought, Cynthia
Aravo, I thought Ethan Slaterand I especially thought Ariana
Grande were very good.
I thought Ariana
Carson (25:13):
yes.
A hundred percent.
Preston (25:14):
Both films.
Carson (25:15):
hundred percent.
Preston (25:15):
about part two specifically here.
But I thought those three werereally standouts in part two.
I really liked them and Ithought Ariana Grande anything
that works, works because ofher.
That being said, Jeff Goldblumand Michelle Yo, who I have
loved in other films.
I have, I have
Carson (25:33):
Yes,
Preston (25:34):
mean, it's well known to me.
Like I think Jeff Goldblum is ahoot.
I think he's a riot.
I think he's a lot of fun andI've really liked his, his
quirky act that he is done as anolder guy, michelle, yo,
everything everywhere, all atonce.
She's incredible in that movie.
It's one of my favorite films ofall time.
The two of them in this filmWicked For Good.
(25:56):
They're awful.
Carson (25:58):
it is bad.
Preston (25:59):
are bad.
They are bad.
Jeff Goldblum's Quirky Actsimply does not work for a lot
of the serious themes that theWizard has to convey in Act two
of Wicked.
It just,
Carson (26:10):
He, he, he is in Thor Love and Thunder, and we are in
a serious movie.
Preston (26:16):
absolutely.
He has to be in a serious movie.
He's supposed to
Carson (26:19):
Yeah.
Preston (26:19):
in a serious movie.
His character is in this part,in this, in Act two of Wicked,
act one.
The quirky stuff.
You know his, his whole shtick.
Carson (26:29):
It's supposed to be a facade.
It's supposed to be the facadein the first movie, like
Preston (26:33):
right?
So it works, but it just doesn'twork.
And for good, it doesn't work atall.
And then Michelle, yo.
I don't really even have thewords.
She's phoning it in at a levelthat should embarrass both her
and John m Chu.
It is embarrassing how
Carson (26:48):
The singing too.
Like I,
Preston (26:50):
She
Carson (26:50):
I can't believe they let her do that.
Like.
Preston (26:52):
when she's acting, you can't, you're, you cannot let
her sing alongside Cynthia Ervoand
Carson (26:57):
No.
Preston (26:58):
two incredible voices.
You just can't let that happenin the way that it did.
even just in her dialogue, man,her lines, it was so uninspired,
I would not be surprised if sheshowed up to set somebody read
her her lines right before theysaid action, and then she read
the line as she just heard it,having never heard it before in
(27:18):
her life, delivered it.
And
Carson (27:20):
Yeah.
Preston (27:20):
shot we got.
And that's the take we got inthe final film.
I mean that's, that's how bad itis.
She just does not seem to careand it's crazy to say all of
this and hear all
Carson (27:30):
Yes.
Preston (27:30):
all of this.
Knowing how good she can behaving seen her in other films
where she is very good.
I didn't love her in part one,but I thought she was good in
part one.
I thought Keala settle as likethis associate professor was
interesting.
'cause you know, seeing whatshe's been able to do in her
career and even vocally, I meanin The Greatest Showman, she was
(27:51):
a hit and she's kind of reducedto this nothing character at SH
University to the point whereI'm like, she would've, she
would've been a really goodmetamor.
It feels in part two that, JeffGoldblum and Michelle Yo are
miscast, they don't belong.
Especially again, alongside.
dynamite performers in CynthiaErvo and Ariana Grande, who I
(28:14):
think are lifting this thing upin ways that I just wouldn't
have expected of any good actor.
I think Ariana Grande isunbelievable.
I really think
Carson (28:24):
Yeah.
Preston (28:25):
I'm a big fan of her, in both films and
Carson (28:29):
Yeah.
And it just sucks'cause theyspeed run through all the, this
plot is disastrous.
Anytime I think they're savingthe movie, it goes, speed runs
the next thing.
And I'm like, dang it.
There was a glimpse there, therewas a glimpse of like those two
being able to dive into theactual drama and then it's like
we're already onto the nextthing.
Preston (28:48):
Or
Carson (28:48):
sucks.
Preston (28:49):
that isn't necessarily adding to their character
Carson (28:52):
Yes.
Preston (28:53):
I,
Carson (28:53):
Yeah.
Preston (28:54):
have been mad if we could for good, they added two
songs and we know that, but
Carson (28:58):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (28:59):
If they cut a song or two and didn't add
Carson (29:01):
Yes.
Preston (29:02):
But if they just cut a song or two and spent a little
bit of that time developing thecharacters, act Two of musicals
oftentimes have less songs thanAct One anyways.
And some of the best musicalsare that way on Broadway.
And that's for a reason becausethey're trying to land the plane
and a lot of them are, are doingso, you know, better than Wicked
(29:22):
For Good does on the screen.
And I think it's one thing thatI thought was interesting, and I
wanna get your thoughts on this.
It feels like, and I know thatthere's an element of this in.
Wicked on Broadway, but italmost feels heightened.
(29:43):
It almost feels more prioritized
Carson (29:46):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (29:46):
Wicked for Good.
It feels like they are doingeverything they can.
John m Cchu, maybe at the behestof Universal, because cinematic
universes are everything thatmatters and interconnectivity is
all that matters, it feels likeWicked For Good is doing
everything it can provide.
(30:08):
Skipping a lot of charactermoments in order to provide
origin moments for certainelements, characters, or
elements
Carson (30:16):
Yes.
Preston (30:16):
Oz.
I'm not necessarily talkingabout Bach becoming the Tin Man,
right?
Carson (30:20):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (30:21):
like that happens in the musical, or I'm not
necessarily even talking about,Fiero becoming the Scarecrow
that also happens in themusical, but it also just feels
like there are moments that weget in this film where it's kind
of doing a little too much to bein lockstep with the original
(30:41):
Wizard of Oz, which
Carson (30:44):
Yes.
Preston (30:44):
I think it detracts, I think it's trying to do too
much.
I think it's trying to connectto a movie that was released.
I'm, I don't When was Wizard Itof Oz released, I mean, decades
ago.
Carson (30:55):
I mean, was it the thirties, forties, fifties,
Preston (30:59):
weren't.
Yeah,
Carson (31:00):
if we,
Preston (31:00):
a hundred years, but I didn't wanna be wrong.
Uh,
Carson (31:03):
I've
Preston (31:04):
just think,
Carson (31:04):
threw out,
Preston (31:05):
I think
Carson (31:05):
I threw out three decades just in case.
Preston (31:08):
It's a detractor to, yeah.
1939, so
Carson (31:12):
Okay.
Preston (31:12):
nearly a hundred years ago, 86.
Carson (31:15):
Yep.
Preston (31:16):
I think we're really suffering in Wizard for Good
because of the fact that we aretrying so hard to connect with
that film,
Carson (31:24):
Yes.
Preston (31:25):
it be its own thing and Wicked be its own thing as well.
Wicked Be a story
Carson (31:28):
It's like it wants it,
Preston (31:30):
off
Carson (31:30):
it wants it to keep it.
In arm's reach the whole time.
And I saw someone put it reallygood in a letterbox review.
I liked a bunch of themyesterday just looking at stuff
and it was like, this feels likeif the first movie was the first
chapter of a Harry Potterseries, this was the fantastic
Beast follow up.
(31:51):
And I'm like, that is brilliant.
Because
Preston (31:54):
because
Carson (31:54):
the plot of yes, yes, but like the.
The plotting to like keepeverything sort of adhered to
Wizard of Oz and it's like, it'salmost, I think you said it
good, is like, it prioritizespeople's familiarity with Wizard
of Oz as more important thanthematically fleshing out what's
(32:19):
right in front of us.
And that's really a shamebecause you have,
Preston (32:24):
wrote, Nessa becoming the Wicked Witch of the East.
It felt like I, it just happenedso fast
Carson (32:29):
oh my gosh.
It was like,
Preston (32:31):
In the Broadway show.
It just, it's been a littlewhile.
I'm gonna admit it's been awhile since I've seen it,
Carson (32:36):
yeah, yeah.
Totally.
Preston (32:37):
being shocked by that.
I don't remember being like, didthey do this?
Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa.
When did she become evil?
It felt like a very naturalprogression, to the point where
whenever it was revealed, she'sthe wicked witch of the east.
I was like, that's cool.
Like, it, it was the,
Carson (32:53):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (32:53):
You wanna have in a reveal like that.
Whenever I saw that on stagewhere I was like, that's cool.
That's neat.
I like that they did that.
They really built toward that towhere I really didn't think of
it.
And even if I had thought of it,it was still a cool arc to kind
of get her to become this.
Whereas in the film it was like,oh, oh, she's evil now.
then two minutes later, oh, thehouse fell on her.
Carson (33:14):
Y literally two minutes.
Like it was, it was a wa That'swhat I,
Preston (33:21):
With their wands.
And,
Carson (33:24):
it was
Preston (33:24):
be, to be honest, one of, in that scene, one of the
biggest laughs of the wholemovie, one of my favorite
moments of the whole movie is,you know, alphabet does her
little cackle and then Glindadoes a, she mocks it a little
bit.
She does her little, little,little, where'd you get that?
And, or like, where'd that comefrom?
(33:45):
And it's funny and it's, Ireally,
Carson (33:47):
really funny.
Preston (33:49):
But then I watched it back and I was like, does it
look like that?
It looks like a Toyotacommercial.
I mean, it just, it looks
Carson (33:56):
Yes, it's bad.
Yeah.
Preston (33:58):
to the point where I'm like, ah, dang, that sucks.
And I think that can be said fora lot of both of these films.
Kind of back to the point I wasgonna say about no good deed.
The one song that is known aslike, really the, the
Carson (34:11):
Be a song of the second act.
Preston (34:12):
love what Cynthia Avo did love the song.
You know, I'll re-listen to it,the movie version any day.
And I think that John MRE isable to hide behind the song a
little bit in this, the way hewas in Act one, but overall, you
look at that song and the way itwas shot, he's not really able
to hide behind it, because ofthe rest of the film to the
(34:34):
point where no good deed becomesjust really a lot of CGI slop.
It's just.
what it could be.
What it should be, in myopinion.
Carson (34:45):
Yeah., It's actually shocking too that like, it
seems, I saw another review gointo this.
It was talking about like,because the whole
interconnection with this whole,franchise, musical.
All of it, building off eachother.
It's like you almost have theopportunity to, you know, update
(35:08):
it for the times in terms oflike, moving the story forward.
Preston (35:13):
Yeah.
Carson (35:13):
it's so fascinating to watch, I mean, this movie
literally opened with thebuffaloes or whatever, literally
being tortured carrying theyellow brick road.
And like, you're like, oh, oh,shit.
Like, okay, here we go.
All this stuff is being set up,both animals, all this stuff,
all, you know, you think there'sgonna be this whole payoff with
(35:36):
the animals and ba and like,like, you know, maybe some more
reckoning of like, you get allthe propaganda stuff, but like,
you don't really, there's noinsight into like.
The ground level of these, thepeople in the universe and why
they believe these things.
And obviously like we know it's'cause of the wizard and
everything, but there's notreally, context around stuff.
(36:00):
And so by the time you get tothe ending of this movie, I
found it more sad thanuplifting, like,
unintentionally.
And I know it's like they weretrying it and so it's like you
have all these things at oddsand then like it wraps up and
she's like, she's alive, butshe's going into a Raku.
(36:21):
Like,
Preston (36:22):
Yeah.
Carson (36:22):
I'm like, that's horrible.
And then, Ariana Grande takesover and she's like, guess the
animals are cool now.
Yeah, we were friends, but Iwon't tell anybody what really
happened and I gotta stay goodfor good.
And I'm like.
Really the, it's just a littleshallow to me that like, we wrap
(36:44):
this up in a bundle of joy and Iknow, you know, sort of the
point is like that she issteadfast and is carrying on for
ba and like, creating the worldthat they would want to see.
But like, you have all thismessaging about the entire
system failing these people andcorrupting their world.
(37:06):
And then it's like, we're justgonna turn the lights back on.
And it's all good guys.
We solved racism, we solved it.
It's good.
The animals are cool now cut tothe goat back in the classroom.
Preston (37:21):
Right.
Carson (37:22):
We're good
Preston (37:23):
cut to the goat back in the classroom, but we don't care
enough to pay Peter Dinkle tocome back for this movie.
Carson (37:28):
travesty.
And so it, it, it's like,
Preston (37:33):
in
Carson (37:33):
oh.
Preston (37:34):
you need those heavy moments, when you need someone
to sell the animal arc,
Carson (37:38):
He's the guy.
Where was that?
There was no follow up.
Preston (37:43):
Jeff Goldblum cannot do
Carson (37:44):
Failed to do.
Preston (37:45):
one, Peter Dinkle absolutely can do that.
And he's a CGI goat.
We don't even see a space goldbloom has
Carson (37:52):
is.
Preston (37:53):
benefit of doing real life performance,
Carson (37:57):
Instead we get, let's just address the lion in the
room.
Preston (38:02):
right?
Carson (38:02):
The cowardly lion.
What a, I know it's part of it,right?
Preston (38:08):
Yeah.
Carson (38:09):
But like, oh, love Coleman Domingo.
But what are we doing?
Preston (38:13):
Yeah.
Carson (38:13):
like, guys, this is, this was not it.
It, it's, even if that's what itis in the play.
I don't know.
It's just so dumb.
Oh, you let me out of the cageof the home I knew.
I'm like, there's one thing I'mchanging.
It's just such a, Ugh.
It was just such a waste becauseyou have the whole buildup with
the, the bear and they're like,that song was actually, I really
(38:36):
enjoyed that song of her, in theWoods.
And then like, we get Nothingbetween.
Preston (38:41):
the
Carson (38:42):
Yeah.
Which was gr
Preston (38:43):
And
Carson (38:44):
I like that one.
Preston (38:45):
like home.
No place like home, no placelike home.
And she ends up leaving home theend of the movie.
I thought
Carson (38:53):
Again.
Preston (38:54):
know if you thought about that.
Carson (38:55):
Yes.
Preston (38:56):
song where she's singing no Place like home, no
place like home and the end ofthe film, she's just, she just
Carson (39:03):
And if I'm the animals, like what, why would I trust
anybody to come back right away?
Like it's just the whole thingis just like on two x speed
character arc.
Like, it feels like the videogame cut scene sped up.
All right.
We're here back in the castle.
Oh, oh.
We're back to the original scenethat we saw on the first part of
the first movie.
Here we go.
(39:24):
And it just doesn't hit for methe same.
Like, it just, I wanted to feelso much more emotional weight of
when that, when that girlinterrupts her and goes, is it
true that you're friends withher?
Like I wanted to choke up and belike, wow, we've been on this
journey and I'm buying in tothis wrapping up right now.
And like, dang,
Preston (39:44):
Yeah,
Carson (39:44):
is insanely good.
But it just didn't, it didn'thit, and it's a bummer.
Preston (39:51):
It is a bummer.
I think a lot of the issues are,for better or for worse, that
they stayed true to the Broadwayshow in Act two.
Carson (40:02):
Yeah.
Preston (40:03):
And I think there's something to be said about, I
mentioned it earlier, but thereis something to be said about
the fact that when you'rewatching Wicked on Broadway, act
two.
Happens fresh off the heels ofAct One.
You're watching this happenregardless of what you think
(40:24):
about the plot or the songs notbeing what they were.
It's happening, you know, 10minutes after you, you just saw
defying gravity live on stageand
Carson (40:37):
Yeah, that's insane to think about.
Preston (40:39):
Yeah.
you're riding a high a littlebit.
And it's not, so bad wise,musically whatever.
I don't think that it's so badthat it's gonna suck that high
out.
I don't think you're gonna falloff of that when you're watching
it in a theater, like a stagetheater.
I don't think it's like that.
And that's now wasn't myexperience.
(41:00):
And that's why, it's become ofthe most profitable, musicals of
all time is because.
The shortcomings you may have inAct two, one, a lot of them are
carried by no good deed falling.
Where it does in the act, it'skind of right in the middle.
It's where there's a little bit,I wouldn't say that there's a
(41:20):
lull, but, it definitely givesyou a pick me up.
If you are in a moment of notbeing as sure about Act two as
you were about Act one.
You know, maybe the high isbeginning to wear off a little
bit and then bam, no good deed,really, really brings you back
into it because of how good thatsong is.
And then after that, you don'thave much longer until the very
end of the show.
(41:41):
But number two, it's also justbenefiting from the fact that
you just saw Act one just now.
It's all one continuousexperience.
This show is, and so when youleave Wicked.
On stage, when you leave a stageperformance of Wicked, you're
probably more likely to beraving about it because you're
(42:02):
raving about the entire thing.
You're raving about Act One andAct two.
You're raving about defyinggravity.
You're raving about all of it asone continuous experience.
Carson (42:13):
Yep.
Preston (42:15):
in this film, you know, I mean, maybe if you saw the
double header, you can try tosell it in your mind that it's
one thing, maybe if you're watch'em back to back, maybe Wicked
for Good is better, but becauseof the length of the two of
them, I mean, wicked For Good istwo hours and 42 minutes long.
That's a long movie.
That's a long movie to, tosustain off of the merits of
(42:38):
Part one, don't think it does.
Carson (42:43):
And it sucks.
It's like you just, I honestly,I wish the script was better.
I wish, I wish they would've.
I, I wonder what this moviewould've turned out of if it
would've been interesting anddiffering from the stage if they
took a beat and say, this moviecame out in 2027 instead of
(43:06):
2025.
Imagine what if there was thatthree year break and.
Allowing the, the story, theseparation of the characters to
really lay with people and tocome up with some better ideas
in the second half of buildingon just some more time for
(43:27):
things to settle in, both fromthe production end and from a
cultural resonance end.
But so often, you know, we arerushing to meet the release
date.
They shot these movies back toback.
They did not stop.
I saw an interview with theeditor, one of the editors the
other day, and it was like, yep,we picked this back up in
(43:48):
January and we did not stopuntil November.
Now granted, most movies getfinished really close to when
they release, but I think thenature of this piece is just a
fascinating way in which.
Blockbusters are produced,especially blockbusters of such
heightened cultural ip, that's ararity.
(44:11):
And, these studios are ravingafter because they know the
recogni recognizability isthere.
They know the emotionalattachment that millennials and,
others, and now Gen z, gen Alphahas with these characters and
with the songs and with ArianaGrande being one of the biggest
pop stars on the planet withCynthia being one of the, best
(44:33):
vocalists to ever exist rightnow.
Like all of that makes them rushtowards the finish line and
makes them go, yes, we need twomovies and we need them a year
apart.
And that doubles our money.
And I think this movie.
Makes that more evident thananything else that it feels like
(44:54):
the speed run next thing.
It doesn't feel like the nextchapter of the Lord of the
Rings.
Even though those movies shotback to back to back, it feels
like a really rushed sequel to alot of good ideas that they had
set up and maybe had thoughtabout more in the first act.
And this was a rough, a roughlanding.
(45:16):
It was,
Preston (45:18):
So with
Carson (45:19):
oh,
Preston (45:19):
said, Carson, do you think that a wicked three of
some sort will happen?
And if it does, what do you dowith it?
Carson (45:36):
I could see.
It's one of those conundrumsthat like happens a lot in
adapted media that's like you'realmost free of the source
material now that like
Preston (45:48):
Well,
Carson (45:48):
it's kind of limitless.
Oh, it keeps going.
Preston (45:52):
oh my goodness.
Let me, I'm gonna look it up
Carson (45:56):
Yeah.
Before I speak
Preston (45:57):
before you
Carson (45:58):
about the
Preston (45:59):
looking up Wicked
Carson (46:01):
timeline and like if more books go into the future,
'cause that would ruin my wholeargument here.
Preston (46:08):
there are books.
It looks like there's fourbooks.
Just, I'm looking on thisWalmart link now.
I
Carson (46:14):
Yeah.
Preston (46:15):
are about.
You are, if you're strictlybasing, you say like you're
strictly and off of the,Broadway show.
Yeah.
You're out.
You're outta material.
'cause that was,
Carson (46:25):
Okay, let's just go with that for now.
It would be interesting to havea fresh take on this world, and
shift the tone a bit.
You could probably pull off somesort of legacy sequel.
I think it would be unfortunateif it came out in like two
years.
Like I just don't think it wouldhit, like in terms of being like
a reawakening of the franchise.
(46:47):
I know they've talked about likespinoffs too.
Like I just think it's sort of abad idea to do that.
And I don't really, one, I don'tknow enough about it if like.
Any of these characters couldsupport their own spinoff.
Obviously, like what I just saidbefore, you can invent whatever
you want for these characters,but it is fascinating'cause it's
like, yeah, I don't know if, Ithink there was a quote from the
(47:09):
writer the other day of like, Idon't know if it would be about
Alphabet and Glinda, but youknow, yeah, we, we could try and
it's like, it also just makesthe ending to this movie Wicked
for Good, that much more bleakthat it's like there's something
about I know it's like everyfranchise ever, that final isn't
(47:31):
final, but like there'ssomething about this stage play
being final with itself and thenthe adaptation being final with
itself.
That like makes the story morepowerful in a way.
And I think.
It would be a toss up if you'dgo forward and yeah, it'd be
crazy.
(47:51):
What do you think?
Like, do you think they couldbring her back alphabet from the
whatever,
Preston (47:57):
I think if they want it, they'll do whatever they
want to do.
If they can get Cynthia Avo andAriana Grande to sign, if they
can get the two of them, that'smy take.
Carson (48:05):
sign back on?
Yeah.
Preston (48:06):
to sign back on to do this again, they're gonna do it.
Carson (48:10):
Yeah,
Preston (48:10):
of,
Carson (48:11):
I think you're right.
Preston (48:12):
I mean, it's a cash cow and I think it's a cash cow
because of them two.
Especially
Carson (48:19):
A hundred percent, yeah.
Preston (48:19):
as I have done a little bit of research in the last, uh,
120 seconds.
There are four books
Carson (48:26):
Okay.
Preston (48:26):
the first one was written in 1995.
That is the only one, that hasbeen adapted into anything that
that was.
The book is titled Wicked.
It was turned into, the musicaland then that was turned into
the film.
The musical came out in 2003.
(48:49):
Two years later, the authorreleased another book titled Son
of a Witch, Son of AlphabetThroop.
Um, three
Carson (48:59):
Oh man.
So the writing's on the
Preston (49:00):
there's
Carson (49:00):
wall.
Preston (49:01):
three years after that.
There's one titled A Lion AmongMen.
It looks like one of the maincharacters is the Cowardly Lion
that says, and then in 2011there was one called Out of Oz,
which was the final installmentof the main line series that
they made, follows thegranddaughter of Alphabet, whose
(49:22):
name is as Civil War anddepression reigns over the land
of Oz.
So, I don't know,
Carson (49:30):
Wow.
Oh wow.
That, that's,
Preston (49:33):
to do it, they'll do it.
And with how much money thisone's raking in, I could see
them certainly trying, actuallyno, I, I know that they'll try
something.
Maybe that's like a spinoff.
Maybe that's something that justgoes straight to like HBO Max or
Peacock or whatever.
Maybe it's not, maybe they tryand do a whole other movie.
(49:54):
I don't know what you make thewhole other movie.
And I I will say flatly, if youdon't have Cynthia Ervo and
Ariana Grande, it's not gonnawork way that these two worked.
It's not gonna make the money
Carson (50:06):
Especially if it's a straight up musical,
Preston (50:09):
Whatever.
They try it seems as if Elba andGlinda aren't, at the very
least, they're not the titularcharacters, then you're number
one, if you do get Cynthia andAriana back, they're not gonna
be as big of parts.
Uh, their roles are
Carson (50:24):
Yeah.
Preston (50:24):
They're gonna be a little bit, muted.
I don't know.
That it would work.
I think you kind of also backedyourself into a corner in for
good, because you tried so hardto connect this to Wizard of Oz,
to where it's
Carson (50:38):
Yes.
Preston (50:39):
well, we know
Carson (50:41):
You can't reccon yourself even though you Yeah,
it is.
It's, yeah.
Preston (50:46):
you've, you've, you're, too much in lockstep with that
film.
And so
Carson (50:51):
Yeah,
Preston (50:51):
think that's kind of maybe an issue going against
them too, that they would haveto take into consideration.
But yeah, I think they'll tryit, whether they get Cynthia or
Ariana back, they'll trysomething.
It may be like a TV
Carson (51:01):
yeah.
Preston (51:02):
Or something that is lesser in scale, but they will
not let this die.
Carson (51:07):
Yeah.
So what's your final takeawayhere?
Mine is, I enjoyed the firstmovie and I wanted this to be
like.
I wanted to love this nextmovie.
What I really wish, I reallywish things turned out better,
and it sucks because the talentinvolved, especially the actors,
(51:29):
is so high caliber that likeit's even more of a letdown
because I saw glimpses of likegood character moments, good
performances, obviously goodsinging.
It was all there.
It's like, it's like one ofthose deals where you have all
the ingredients.
It's just they, it wasundercooked, unfortunately.
(51:50):
That's kind of my deal.
How about you?
Preston (51:53):
That's probably my final take as well.
I really liked the first onequite a lot.
I think it deserved a lot of theOscar nominations that it got.
I think it.
Best picture.
I don't know about that, but itwas really good.
And I really liked it.
I think that Grande and CynthiaErvo are just, showstopping as a
duo, they're incredible.
(52:13):
They carry both films and thelarger cast as well.
There are some otherperformances that are good.
I mentioned Ethan Slater and forGood.
I really liked him in that, inthat, in the
Carson (52:25):
Yeah.
Preston (52:25):
Um,
Carson (52:26):
he got more screen time to develop what his character
was,
Preston (52:29):
we got more of
Carson (52:30):
which sucks,
Preston (52:30):
but yeah, to your point, a lot of moments that are
there.
You get a lot of teases, you geta lot of like, oh, this, you
know, you get moments whereglimpses what this could be.
Carson (52:42):
Yes.
Preston (52:43):
I think in part one, a lot of those, you know, maybe
this is what this could be,moments are fulfilled to an
extent due to the fact that it'sa part one,
Carson (52:53):
Yep.
Preston (52:54):
of helps it in that
Carson (52:54):
And you don't have to follow it up.
It's, yep.
Preston (52:57):
to tie up every loose end necessarily.
It can kinda let those momentsbe, and you're riding on the
heels of some of the greatestmusic ever written for a
Broadway musical, and that, aslam dunk regardless.
But yeah, I think overall it's avery anti climactic conclusion.
False flat.
(53:18):
it's sad because of the factthat it's not for good is not
entirely terrible.
I don't look at this and saythis is totally amis.
You do have those glimpses whatit could be.
There's a lot of glimpses of
Carson (53:32):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (53:35):
I think it's a shame for specifically, Ariana Grande.
I still think that she isincredible.
I loved
Carson (53:42):
Yeah,
Preston (53:42):
of these movies.
I loved her in
Carson (53:44):
I'll be so curious.
Preston (53:46):
and
Carson (53:46):
So curious how this movie ages like, I don't know.
You know, I, I had fallen.
Preston (53:55):
gonna be a lot easier than rewatching part
Carson (53:56):
Yes.
And it was, that's what I wentthrough.
And so like, you haven't hadthat experience yet, but like, I
don't know, like, you know, likeI, I think I'm going to
associate these withThanksgiving time obviously.
'cause that's when they, theycame out and sort of like, I
think there's obviously thefamily element of like, going to
the movie with your family andlike watching this and like, the
big, big cultural musical thatcomes out and sort of,
(54:19):
everyone's going to see like thetheaters were packed.
Yeah.
And it, it's like, will this, tobring it back to the meme, we
started this whole thing withwill this hold space in my brain
for years to come?
I honestly, I don't think soright now.
(54:40):
Kelly was surprised I wasventing about this more
passionately than normal when wewere leaving the theater.
And she's like, I thought youliked it when we left.
You know, I was just kind ofbeing, oh yeah.
So, yeah, it was good.
And then, you know, you get outthe theater, you get out of the
crowd and you're like, okay, nowI can let loose get to the
parking lot.
You're at least six feet awayfrom people.
You're like, whoa, that wasmessy movie.
(55:01):
And she's like, what?
And so it's kind of in a funny,funny, venting journey these
past couple days.
But I'll be curious to see, Iread your letter box review and
I wrote a bunch of letter boxreviews.
I have not given it a starranking yet.
I'd be curious to see where itstacks up in my 2025 movies.
'Cause it's at that point whereit's like right down the middle
(55:25):
that like, then I start be like,well.
I gave that movie less stars,but I kind of enjoyed it better
than this one.
But that makes me look like anasshole.
If I put this below this andthen I'm like, what is the point
of rankings?
Preston (55:38):
What are we doing?
Carson (55:38):
Go down that rabbit hole.
Preston (55:40):
this.
Yeah.
Carson (55:41):
Yeah, exactly.
So
Preston (55:43):
movies.
not
Carson (55:44):
I
Preston (55:44):
We've got more.
The year is almost over, but weare not almost over.
We've got more exciting stuff onthe way.
Carson, I'm glad we got to talka little bit of wicked.
I'm excited for what we gotcoming up next, with these
future episodes.
We mentioned a little bit ofknives Out avatar, less than a
month away.
That's crazy.
Um, amongst other
Carson (56:03):
repair to be, for us to be insufferable for the next two
to three months.
Preston (56:09):
If you are tired of listening to the Two of Us gripe
about a movie that we were letdown by, well,
Carson (56:15):
is on the agenda.
Preston (56:17):
I'm knocking
Carson (56:17):
Let's just.
Preston (56:18):
but you just wait for the release of Avatar Fire and
Ash next month.
joy is on the agenda, that's forsure.
Carson, any final thoughtsbefore we hop off this thing?
Carson (56:29):
Not really.
You know, I think there's a lotof good movies to end 2025 with
to kind of chase this one downwith.
And I'm excited to talk about, Ican't believe Wake Up Dead Man
comes out this Thanksgivingweek.
That's exciting.
I can't believe we have a fulltrilogy of that now.
That's insane to say.
Preston (56:47):
awesome
Carson (56:48):
And yeah, like there's a lot of stuff that I feel like
both of us want to and need tocatch up on.
It's gonna be fun to talk aboutkind of wrapping up our, our
movie year.
I know it's like that fun timeand you're sitting there in
January and February when it'scold outside and you're like,
yes, I am going to watch 10movies in the next two weeks and
(57:08):
act like I was their biggestproprietor for the last six
months.
And then all of our otherfriends be like, you guys are
such.
False cinephiles, and we had tosay, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
We watch the movie.
You watch the movie, we did it.
Preston (57:27):
And on that note, we're gonna call it, if you're
listening to this still, thankyou for listening, to our Wicked
and Wicked for good review.
No one mourns the Wicked, but wedo mourn.
Wicked for good a little bit.
Uh, so tune into our otherepisodes though if you'd like
to.
They're all upright now.
Make sure you turn onnotifications, subscribe
wherever you listen to yourpodcast, and we will be back
(57:48):
with another one very soon.
Signing off for myself andCarson.
We will see you next time.
Welcome into Zoll Pod.
I am Preston Moore.
Joined alongside as always,Carson Terrell.
Carson, we've got, a goodepisode coming up, an exciting
episode, one that you and I bothkind of have been looking
forward to doing for a littlewhile now.
It's gonna be a wicked episode.
One might say,
Carson (00:37):
Halloween is over.
Halloween is over, but wickedseason is not.
It's just a different kind ofwicked.
And it's funny, like if youwould've asked me a year ago,
would you be reviewing bothWicked movies in a podcast
episode, I probably would'vesaid no.
'Cause I don't really have ahistory with the musical of
(00:58):
this, and I, I want to get intoyour lore with this in a second,
but I don't have much historywith this.
And really the ramp up to thefilm.
Was my introduction to this, themusical and then movie.
So it's been a very interestingride because obviously this has
become one of the most popularfranchises in the last two
(01:20):
years.
I think Wicked Part One was thehighest grossing movie in the US
all year until I think it stillholds a title from a year ago of
the highest grossing US movie.
So obviously very popular.
And yeah, there's a lot to likeabout these movies.
It's a lot of fun and I'mexcited to kind of dive into it.
Preston (01:42):
Yeah, definitely.
And you mentioned it has beenhuge.
I mean, I don't wanna say thatI'm surprised, but I'm
definitely, well, I am a littlesurprised by the level of,
Carson (01:53):
Yeah.
Preston (01:54):
of popularity of fame that Wicked has gotten over the
course of the last, you know,year and a half or so.
Ever since the first onereleased, obviously it was a
really big ip, but you hit thenail on the head.
It has become one of the mostpopular franchises, so much to
the point that.
Now, even today as we'rerecording this, I believe the
president of Universal or, orsomebody, said that they are
(02:16):
hoping, or that they feel as ifthey have a responsibility was
the word, to continue this quoteunquote franchise somehow, which
is very interesting.
And that's something that Iexpected to be honest, given how
well both of these films did inthe box office, total hits.
Carson (02:35):
Yeah, and it's wild too.
It's like, it's kind ofinteresting'cause like.
Obviously Ariana Grande is ahuge star, right?
And Cynthia Ervo is like anincredible, like talent and then
like, putting them together,like it, honestly, they became
their own franchise as well.
And so it's like, obviously itstarted with the marketing and
the memes all last year.
(02:56):
Like I'm holding space for the,that whole meme blew up.
But I feel like the all-Outmarketing blitz is probably one
of the craziest things I've seenin the past couple years too.
Like, you could not go anywherelast year when this movie was
first coming out, you could goto the, the grocery store and
it'd be like, get the pink andgreen cereal.
(03:18):
It's like they masterfully didit and it was like, it was so
crazy.
And then I finally saw the movieand I was like, oh, this is what
it's about.
Because, yeah, it was kind ofjust a marketing thing for me at
first, and I'm seeing all thebehind the scenes.
I'm like, oh yeah, it's tied toWizard of Oz, but I don't really
know how it's gonna tie in.
And I guess just to set this up,like, so I watch the movie in
(03:40):
theaters last year, um, with my,then
Preston (03:44):
seen the musical beforehand?
You mentioned this
Carson (03:47):
no, I had, I had not read the book'cause Okay, so
it's based on a book.
Right.
Preston (03:53):
I.
Carson (03:53):
Which then was, turned into the musical and now was
then consequently adapted.
Anyways, so yeah, no, this wasliterally my first time
experiencing any of it was last,last time.
And I remember people just likeclapping during the songs.
Like, it was like very like, ohmy gosh, like this is like very
hype for people.
And I was like, yeah, this is,I'm buying like I rewatched the,
(04:17):
the first movie.
In preparation for part two lastweekend.
And I was like, man, say whatyou wanna say about the movie.
But every, all the songs in partone are like insanely well done,
probably everyone of'em is likea radio smash.
It, it's kind of insane.
And I wanna talk a little bitabout your experience too.
'cause like, this hit me a yearago and then I was surprised
(04:38):
when we were talking about like,episode ideas a couple weeks ago
of like, oh yeah, I've neverseen The Wicked, never seen the
Wicked Movie a year later.
And I was like, if anyone wereto see the Wicked movie, I
thought you were gonna be theone to see it.
I'm shocked.
Walk me through, where were youa year ago and why did you not
(04:59):
go see this?
What happened?
Preston (05:01):
that's a good question.
It's funny that you say thatbecause, that's been much
everybody has said that, uh,that
Carson (05:10):
Yeah.
Preston (05:11):
I've mentioned that I didn't see it, or any time that
it's come up or whatever thecase may be like it has been.
You know, you what you just gaveme was a little bit less, uh,
than I get from most people.
Most people are like, abactually just disgusted by the
fact that I haven't seen it.
And one number one, shockedbecause anybody that knows me,
(05:34):
I'm a musical person, you know,I've done theater.
Like, I worked at Disney WorldWicked's, not Disney, but like,
come on.
I mean, there are a lot ofsimilarities between like the
Wizard of Oz and,
Carson (05:44):
Yes, totally.
Preston (05:45):
Disney puts out and all of that.
It's just my niche and, so a lotof people really have been
shocked that I didn't see it.
And at the time I was justreally busy.
I didn't see many movies at alllast year.
That came out last year.
I've caught up on a bunch WickedPart one being one of those
movies now.
But yeah, I was just, I wasinsanely busy at the time and I
(06:05):
just wasn't seeing a lot ofmovies.
One of the reasons that I didn'tmake an effort to kind of clear
my schedule and go see WickedPart One, when it came out, even
after, it got pretty solidreviews, obviously a slew of
Oscar nominations, which reallysurprised me at the time, and
honestly surprised me even stillnow having seen it.
But, even after the goodreviews, I just thought visually
(06:32):
that it looked like shit.
Like I just thought it looked sougly.
I thought I was like this.
It was letting me down.
It was letting me down in a lotof ways.
I had seen Wicked on stage onBroadway, and obviously anybody
that's seen that show onBroadway walks away really
amazed.
(06:53):
You know, it is one of thegreatest Broadway musicals of
all time.
I haven't read the book, but,Everybody knows that it's one of
the greatest musicals of allTime Act One of that musical is
maybe one of the greatest acts,put to stage ever.
And, you know, the originalBroadway cast stars like Kristin
Chinwe, Idina Menzel, who wenton to do things with her voice
(07:16):
that everybody has heard nowsince in Frozen and Frozen two
and whatnot.
And so it's obviously this hugephenomenon.
It's been a huge phenomenon.
I had seen it on stage and Iloved it on stage.
And then I saw via the trailerand TV spots last year.
It just looked ugly and it justlooked like a lot of the movies
(07:36):
that I didn't want to see.
It looked like a lot of themovies that I did not make an
effort to go back to theaters.
I believe a couple months priorI had gone to see, um, and
Wolverine.
And to be honest, like visually.
didn't look like a step up fromthat.
And
Carson (07:53):
Yeah.
Preston (07:53):
as much as do like Wicked, I was never like a
massive wicked on Broadway fan.
I, I was a fan, but I wasn'tlike, you know, you wouldn't,
you wouldn't catch me hangingwicked posters in my room or
anything like that.
And so, you know, it just didn'tlook visually appealing to me.
It didn't look like what itcould be.
And if you've seen it on stage,the visuals of the show on stage
(08:15):
are absolutely phenomenal.
I mean, it's a beautiful,beautiful work of art that they
put on stage and the things thatthey're able to do, with special
effects and makeup obviously.
But beyond that, the staging andthe lighting of it all, it is a
gorgeous, gorgeous show.
And if that's what you've seenout of Wicked, maybe that's what
you expect.
I guess maybe
Carson (08:35):
Yeah.
Preston (08:36):
my head was at.
so my expectations probablyweren't really being met
entirely, having seen it onBroadway.
Now seeing the film.
Again, speaking just from avisual perspective.
So that's why I didn't see itlast year, but I did see it,
with my little brother a coupledays before seeing Wicked for
(08:57):
Good, just to prepare for itbecause I knew I had the time I
was gonna see it with my family.
I needed to see the first onebeforehand.
And, yeah, I mean, it, it was,it was definitely interesting.
I had a friend of mine whobefore seeing either of them, I
told him, I was like, I'm, I'mgonna see, you know, I'm gonna
see part one and then I'm gonnasee for good just a couple days
(09:18):
later.
And he was so mad at me.
He was big theater guy.
He was so mad at me because hewas like, I had to wait a year
in between these movies and, andpart one was such a smash hit, I
mean, regardless of what youthink, that movie was critically
adored as well.
Wicked for Good has not reallynecessarily been critically
(09:39):
adored, compared to the way thatthe audience reaction has been,
which in a way mirrors what ison stage.
But for me, that's kind of mystory with these movies.
I had seen Wicked on Broadway acouple years back.
I had obviously heard a lot ofthe songs before ever even
seeing it on Broadway because itis this iconic, musical.
(10:00):
I didn't see it last year and Icaught all up just here in the
last couple of weeks and I'mexcited to talk about it.
I'm very interested to get yourthoughts on it.
Carson, you went, you did theyear.
You had a year
Carson (10:12):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (10:13):
You might not be the biggest wicked stand that I
know, but you had a year longwait in between part one and for
good.
So what.
Overarching.
I guess maybe we should, maybewe could start a little bit with
part one, but I do want,obviously
Carson (10:27):
Yes.
Preston (10:28):
to be about the movie that just came out, so, but take
me back a year ago when Part onecomes out.
What are your thoughts on all ofthat?
Carson (10:36):
So, yeah, I think I was in a similar boat to you a year
ago.
It is like, obviously we talkabout movies every day with our
friends and whatnot, and youknow, the group chat was group
chatting about this when thistrailer came out.
It was like, you know, theclassic people on Twitter of
like added a color grade, fixedit for the, you know, like, you
(10:59):
know, all the classic tropesthat we get when any big movie
comes out and garners enoughattention it doesn't matter what
it is, there will be somecontroversy.
The day that the first trailerdrops, oh my God, the visual
effects are bad.
Oh my god.
Uh, this sounded horrible.
Oh my gosh.
Uh, why is this person in thisrole?
You know?
So it doesn't matter what it is,but I tend to agree with you.
(11:21):
And I remember seeing the firsttrailer and I'm like, wow, that
doesn't really, in my head I'mthinking, okay, wizard of Oz,
Vista vision, like this, thisgem in cinematic history that
like literally, I mean it'splaying in this, this sphere
(11:42):
now.
Historical, like just some ofthe best kind of imagery put in
colors, put to screen it is justso iconic.
And so seeing sort of the muted,blown out overcast kind of a
style of the cinematography andthe color gray that they'd chose
to envelop the world that theywere trying to of oz that they
(12:04):
were trying to create.
It was so interesting and it'ssomething that I've been kind of
researching just offhand too, oflike, why do movies look like
this?
And we talk about like thedifference between different
blockbusters coming out and it'sso fascinating.
And then, you know, I startreading up on the press tour and
they're interviewing, John Chuand the Cinematographer, and I
(12:27):
think it's important to,establish out the gate that this
is.
This is something they chose,like this is, and it's not just
that, like this is, this ispopular.
Like this is a popular look thathas been deemed as cinematic,
this, this shallow depth offield, blown out background, not
(12:48):
this anti deep focus.
It's all about creating thisshallow depth of field and
making, you know, showing theselenses and differentiating it
from something that you wouldsee on your phone.
And it's so interesting becauseit's like, it's, it's like
what's in vogue right now forcinematography there's people
like, oh my gosh, we need to goshoot.
They should have shot Wicked onfilm so it would look better.
(13:08):
But like, no, it's like this ishow they're choosing to do their
compositions.
Like they think this, theywanted, like, there's a quote of
from the director going aroundof like, we wanted Wicked to
have this sense of like.
Realism to it that like us, theaudience could buy into the
world being real.
(13:28):
Like that, that was theirmentality going into it.
And it's so fascinating becausewhen you think of Oz, I and all
the, the, the animals and allthe colors and the green, the,
the iconic green and the red ofthe, the, uh, Dorothy's red
slippers, like, like yeah.
The yellow brick road, like youthink of some of the most iconic
(13:51):
color palette like you, it's sobaked into the story and it's so
fascinating that it like youapproach this, okay, we're
coming up with the look ofWicked.
Okay, we're going to blast everysingle LED light through the
back of the set.
We're gonna, we're gonna haveamazing sets, but.
Preston (14:10):
that's what I was
Carson (14:11):
We don't want you to see them, we don't want you to see
them.
We are going to blow the crapout of it.
There's gonna be zero deepfocus.
It's all gonna be shot wideopen.
Aperture, like Jonathan Bailey'sgonna be running around and you
can't see the, the, this amazingspinning set.
This is probably one of thebiggest travesties of the first
movie, is that beautiful setduring his first, musical number
(14:34):
in the, what'd you call it?
Cafeteria slash library slash
Preston (14:39):
I
Carson (14:39):
And it's like super imaginative.
Like, you know, it's like, itkind of feels like the,
equivalent of like the HarryPotter, big common room where
they all eat, all eat, you know,dinner and it's the first thing
you see when they get back toschool every time.
And it's like this iconiclocation, but like, oh, it's,
the way they approach it is justsuch a choice.
Like, I don't know how else toput it.
(15:00):
And so I think I, yeah, likeit's, it's fascinating.
Preston (15:03):
lately, there have been these photos, real life photos
of the sets going around saying,what are they gonna do
Carson (15:09):
Yes.
Or just, or just the BTSphotographer, like, you know,
taking, taking onset images, andjust having a standard color
profile baked in.
It's so fascinating.
Putting that up next to stillsfrom the actual movie, like Grit
from the Blu-ray.
Preston (15:24):
Yeah.
And you brought up the lighting.
I think that's one thing.
They do it in both movies.
Carson (15:29):
Yes.
Preston (15:30):
the light is just, just, I don't even know what to
say.
It's like just smashing throughthe back of, and this isn't just
in that scene that youmentioned.
It's in multiple, it's in, it'sin, their like dorm room that
they have at SHI University.
It's in the final big number ofthe first one when she's singing
(15:51):
to find gravity.
Like it's, anytime there's awindow, like the light is just
smashing through the back, andit's coming directly at the
camera to the point where you'renot silhouetted.
Like our figures aren'tsilhouetted, but it kind of just
washes out Gorgeous, oftentimespractical sets that they had, in
(16:13):
camera.
And, and I, I don't wanna saythey lost that because they have
it and it's all there.
It won the Oscar for productiondesign for a good reason.
But at the same time, thesemovies sort of just make me
think of what they could havebeen both of
Carson (16:30):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (16:31):
one thing where I think the, that for good, the second
one kind of falters in a way,is, John m Chu, the director.
I don't think he really doesanything interesting as a
director.
Hardly anything, that I loveabout these films.
Are thanks to imaginativedirection.
You go watch something, like LaLa Land or Steven Spielberg's
(16:53):
West Side Story, and you seethese really imaginative ways to
shoot musical numbers, reallyfantastic, creative, engaging
ways, where the musical numbersfeel alive.
They don't necessarily just feellike a group of people, an
ensemble, stepping and dancingalong to a song.
And I think that John m Truedoesn't really bring that, to
(17:15):
this film, to either of thesefilms, but the
Carson (17:17):
Especially part two.
I was, I wanted to get your takeon this because like a lot of
the, the choreography in partone, the first kind of number
when they arrive at the academyand then also like popular with
all the stuff going on in theroom and like all the stuff Oh,
fantastic.
Like genuinely good, some goodchoreography in camera work, in
(17:40):
those numbers.
And maybe it's like I'm wearingrose tinted glasses or like
seeing,'cause those are likeprobably the best songs of the
entire deal.
Preston (17:50):
That's a big part of it
Carson (17:51):
But then I, yeah, like I noticed in part two, like.
Y you know, you have theselesser songs, but then the, the,
the, choreography and the camerawork to match is just so much
just medium shot hover 360around our character, maybe got
by three seconds of a wide shot,like maybe three seconds, and
(18:14):
then it goes back to justhovering around.
Never did I feel that more thanthe climax of part two.
Which I just emotionally, thatset is just so vacant.
There's like three torches andwe just sit there and Dorothy's
down there in the dungeon andI'm like, what's going on?
Have you seen the memes aroundthat?
(18:35):
It is so, it's so funny.
Preston (18:39):
You know, and, and I
Carson (18:41):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (18:41):
The direction's a lot less inspired in part two.
But I also think, this issomething that has kind of been
known about Wicked on stage forquite some time.
Carson (18:52):
For like 10 years, 15 years.
Preston (18:54):
right?
Act One is an all timer act.
One is incredible.
Act one has this defy Gravity,one of the greatest songs, ever
in musical theater history.
I don't think anybody's gonnafight me on that.
Act one is fantastic.
Act two.
It's a little messier.
Carson (19:13):
Yeah.
You gotta land the plane.
Preston (19:16):
The plot is all kind of, you know, the plot is the
plot.
It's kind of all over the place.
You're tying up a lot of looseends from Act one and beyond
that, the music itself, thesongs, they're not as good.
There's one big hit in Act two,good deed.
And I really thought CynthiaErvo did an incredible job,
(19:39):
really throughout the bothfilms.
I really liked her.
No good deed.
I think she does a great job.
I think for the most part, JohnM.
Chew, I didn't find hisdirecting really inspired in
either film.
Especially in part two, Ithought in part one he could
kind of hide behind the songs alittle bit and hide
Carson (19:59):
Yeah.
Preston (20:00):
the world building a little bit and hide behind, you
know, a lot of the productiondesign.
I mean, it won an Oscar and likeI said, I believe for good
reason, I think it is aphenomenal production design.
It really sweeps you in, in thatfirst film.
And I think John M two is ableto kind of hide behind a lot of
these things in part one that hecan't hide behind anymore.
(20:20):
In part two,
Carson (20:22):
Yep.
Preston (20:22):
design is, well, it's still great, but it's what you
know, you're gonna get, thesongs are by and large a step
down from part one.
Plot itself is extremely messycompared to part one.
You
Carson (20:37):
Oh my gosh.
Preston (20:38):
if you were gonna do a straight adaptation or, you
know, try to keep it a straightadaptation of the Broadway
musical, you knew the plot ofpart two was gonna be a little
bit more difficult to adapt andmake work on screen because it
kind of hardly works on stage,but it works on stage because
you're off the heels of anincredible act.
One that left you speechless.
Carson (20:56):
Yes.
Here's what B, here's what'sbaffling to me.
Here's what's baffling to meresearching this after the fact.
Like not to justify my re my reemotional reaction, like with
research I did after about thewhole history of this thing, but
I didn't know the play is like atight two hours or whatever it
(21:17):
is, or two and a half hours.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Like there's, it's like an hour,then a 20 minute intermission,
and then another hour, or howlong is the play?
Preston (21:26):
I.
Carson (21:26):
Does that sound right?
Preston (21:28):
I'll double check to look it up.
I
Carson (21:29):
Okay.
Preston (21:30):
any like, I don't think it's known to be extremely short
or extremely long.
I think it's just
Carson (21:34):
So just kind of like average play length.
Okay.
So then you, given the nature ofwhat you just said about part
two.
Preston (21:44):
I'm interrupting.
It's two hours and 45 minutes,
Carson (21:47):
Less than the runtime of Avatar.
Okay.
Preston (21:51):
Let's put it in our terms.
Carson (21:52):
There's, yeah.
Preston (21:53):
I can
Carson (21:53):
Speaking language, but, okay, so you have this, and then
you go, it's not gonna be onemovie.
It's going to be two movies.
Okay.
Add up the run times.
Now you're up to like fourhours.
Let's just say two hours.
Each movie.
What's baffling to me, this isthe most baffling thing about
the second movie.
It's somehow longer, but yetadds no context to like half of
(22:19):
the emotional moments that Iwould think, the filmmakers
would go, yeah, now that we havethis extra runtime, let's
develop, Fieros arc a littlemore.
Let's develop S'S arc a littlemore.
Let's develop Tin Man.
Ark a little more and what youget is you get two extra songs
(22:40):
and it feels like we are speedrunning between the songs.
I'd be curious for someone tobreak down the nons song screen
time of this movie versus thenons song screen time of the the
first one because it feels likeyou're just skipping to song, to
song to song.
And it's like that is doing thelegwork of the storytelling.
(23:02):
But the problem is, is you backyourself into a corner because
you're now in movie form andit's a completely different
medium and you can't, you can't,get by with the songs conveying
everything you need to.
Preston (23:15):
just like straight up, not as good.
just
Carson (23:18):
Yes.
Preston (23:19):
one.
Carson (23:20):
you have this double negative going for you where
one, you're trying to get awaywith that the songs are not as
good, and two, they're not asgood as telling the story.
And it's the second half ofwrapping up your character arc.
So you need to like really landthe plane here in terms of
getting the development ofeverybody, past the finish line.
(23:41):
And it was just shocking thatlike a lot of the characters
that are were meaningful to theactual plot.
Madam Marble, the Wizard, likeall the support and character,
like the scaffolding of whatmakes the main characters arcs
supposedly work.
It just felt so empty.
(24:02):
And I was just watching thisgoing like, okay, tin Man's in
the streets now yelling to tokill Alpha and like Nessa iss
going crazy now after like twoseconds of seeing her and just
like hopping to thesecharacters, I'm like, oh, Fieros
gone.
And then, oh, he's, I guess he'swalking on the road.
Okay, great.
(24:23):
And then we just don't see himtill the end.
The stuff like that that I'mjust like,
Preston (24:27):
a lot of
Carson (24:27):
why is the.
Preston (24:28):
you across the face and now you're expected to believe
that
Carson (24:31):
Why does Madam Marble and the Wizard hate the animals
so much?
I still don't know.
Yes, yes.
It's, you know, all the themesof fascism, racism, yes.
It's established, but they don'tdo anything with them.
They do like one scene and theygo, some animals are getting
outta hand.
That's all we get.
Like, just,
Preston (24:52):
Well, here's one of my biggest issues you mentioned
Madam Marble and the Wizard
Carson (24:57):
yes.
Oh
Preston (24:59):
I, and I wanna preface this by saying thought, Cynthia
Aravo, I thought Ethan Slaterand I especially thought Ariana
Grande were very good.
I thought Ariana
Carson (25:13):
yes.
A hundred percent.
Preston (25:14):
Both films.
Carson (25:15):
hundred percent.
Preston (25:15):
about part two specifically here.
But I thought those three werereally standouts in part two.
I really liked them and Ithought Ariana Grande anything
that works, works because ofher.
That being said, Jeff Goldblumand Michelle Yo, who I have
loved in other films.
I have, I have
Carson (25:33):
Yes,
Preston (25:34):
mean, it's well known to me.
Like I think Jeff Goldblum is ahoot.
I think he's a riot.
I think he's a lot of fun andI've really liked his, his
quirky act that he is done as anolder guy, michelle, yo,
everything everywhere, all atonce.
She's incredible in that movie.
It's one of my favorite films ofall time.
The two of them in this filmWicked For Good.
(25:56):
They're awful.
Carson (25:58):
it is bad.
Preston (25:59):
are bad.
They are bad.
Jeff Goldblum's Quirky Actsimply does not work for a lot
of the serious themes that theWizard has to convey in Act two
of Wicked.
It just,
Carson (26:10):
He, he, he is in Thor Love and Thunder, and we are in
a serious movie.
Preston (26:16):
absolutely.
He has to be in a serious movie.
He's supposed to
Carson (26:19):
Yeah.
Preston (26:19):
in a serious movie.
His character is in this part,in this, in Act two of Wicked,
act one.
The quirky stuff.
You know his, his whole shtick.
Carson (26:29):
It's supposed to be a facade.
It's supposed to be the facadein the first movie, like
Preston (26:33):
right?
So it works, but it just doesn'twork.
And for good, it doesn't work atall.
And then Michelle, yo.
I don't really even have thewords.
She's phoning it in at a levelthat should embarrass both her
and John m Chu.
It is embarrassing how
Carson (26:48):
The singing too.
Like I,
Preston (26:50):
She
Carson (26:50):
I can't believe they let her do that.
Like.
Preston (26:52):
when she's acting, you can't, you're, you cannot let
her sing alongside Cynthia Ervoand
Carson (26:57):
No.
Preston (26:58):
two incredible voices.
You just can't let that happenin the way that it did.
even just in her dialogue, man,her lines, it was so uninspired,
I would not be surprised if sheshowed up to set somebody read
her her lines right before theysaid action, and then she read
the line as she just heard it,having never heard it before in
(27:18):
her life, delivered it.
And
Carson (27:20):
Yeah.
Preston (27:20):
shot we got.
And that's the take we got inthe final film.
I mean that's, that's how bad itis.
She just does not seem to careand it's crazy to say all of
this and hear all
Carson (27:30):
Yes.
Preston (27:30):
all of this.
Knowing how good she can behaving seen her in other films
where she is very good.
I didn't love her in part one,but I thought she was good in
part one.
I thought Keala settle as likethis associate professor was
interesting.
'cause you know, seeing whatshe's been able to do in her
career and even vocally, I meanin The Greatest Showman, she was
(27:51):
a hit and she's kind of reducedto this nothing character at SH
University to the point whereI'm like, she would've, she
would've been a really goodmetamor.
It feels in part two that, JeffGoldblum and Michelle Yo are
miscast, they don't belong.
Especially again, alongside.
dynamite performers in CynthiaErvo and Ariana Grande, who I
(28:14):
think are lifting this thing upin ways that I just wouldn't
have expected of any good actor.
I think Ariana Grande isunbelievable.
I really think
Carson (28:24):
Yeah.
Preston (28:25):
I'm a big fan of her, in both films and
Carson (28:29):
Yeah.
And it just sucks'cause theyspeed run through all the, this
plot is disastrous.
Anytime I think they're savingthe movie, it goes, speed runs
the next thing.
And I'm like, dang it.
There was a glimpse there, therewas a glimpse of like those two
being able to dive into theactual drama and then it's like
we're already onto the nextthing.
Preston (28:48):
Or
Carson (28:48):
sucks.
Preston (28:49):
that isn't necessarily adding to their character
Carson (28:52):
Yes.
Preston (28:53):
I,
Carson (28:53):
Yeah.
Preston (28:54):
have been mad if we could for good, they added two
songs and we know that, but
Carson (28:58):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (28:59):
If they cut a song or two and didn't add
Carson (29:01):
Yes.
Preston (29:02):
But if they just cut a song or two and spent a little
bit of that time developing thecharacters, act Two of musicals
oftentimes have less songs thanAct One anyways.
And some of the best musicalsare that way on Broadway.
And that's for a reason becausethey're trying to land the plane
and a lot of them are, are doingso, you know, better than Wicked
(29:22):
For Good does on the screen.
And I think it's one thing thatI thought was interesting, and I
wanna get your thoughts on this.
It feels like, and I know thatthere's an element of this in.
Wicked on Broadway, but italmost feels heightened.
(29:43):
It almost feels more prioritized
Carson (29:46):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (29:46):
Wicked for Good.
It feels like they are doingeverything they can.
John m Cchu, maybe at the behestof Universal, because cinematic
universes are everything thatmatters and interconnectivity is
all that matters, it feels likeWicked For Good is doing
everything it can provide.
(30:08):
Skipping a lot of charactermoments in order to provide
origin moments for certainelements, characters, or
elements
Carson (30:16):
Yes.
Preston (30:16):
Oz.
I'm not necessarily talkingabout Bach becoming the Tin Man,
right?
Carson (30:20):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (30:21):
like that happens in the musical, or I'm not
necessarily even talking about,Fiero becoming the Scarecrow
that also happens in themusical, but it also just feels
like there are moments that weget in this film where it's kind
of doing a little too much to bein lockstep with the original
(30:41):
Wizard of Oz, which
Carson (30:44):
Yes.
Preston (30:44):
I think it detracts, I think it's trying to do too
much.
I think it's trying to connectto a movie that was released.
I'm, I don't When was Wizard Itof Oz released, I mean, decades
ago.
Carson (30:55):
I mean, was it the thirties, forties, fifties,
Preston (30:59):
weren't.
Yeah,
Carson (31:00):
if we,
Preston (31:00):
a hundred years, but I didn't wanna be wrong.
Uh,
Carson (31:03):
I've
Preston (31:04):
just think,
Carson (31:04):
threw out,
Preston (31:05):
I think
Carson (31:05):
I threw out three decades just in case.
Preston (31:08):
It's a detractor to, yeah.
1939, so
Carson (31:12):
Okay.
Preston (31:12):
nearly a hundred years ago, 86.
Carson (31:15):
Yep.
Preston (31:16):
I think we're really suffering in Wizard for Good
because of the fact that we aretrying so hard to connect with
that film,
Carson (31:24):
Yes.
Preston (31:25):
it be its own thing and Wicked be its own thing as well.
Wicked Be a story
Carson (31:28):
It's like it wants it,
Preston (31:30):
off
Carson (31:30):
it wants it to keep it.
In arm's reach the whole time.
And I saw someone put it reallygood in a letterbox review.
I liked a bunch of themyesterday just looking at stuff
and it was like, this feels likeif the first movie was the first
chapter of a Harry Potterseries, this was the fantastic
Beast follow up.
(31:51):
And I'm like, that is brilliant.
Because
Preston (31:54):
because
Carson (31:54):
the plot of yes, yes, but like the.
The plotting to like keepeverything sort of adhered to
Wizard of Oz and it's like, it'salmost, I think you said it
good, is like, it prioritizespeople's familiarity with Wizard
of Oz as more important thanthematically fleshing out what's
(32:19):
right in front of us.
And that's really a shamebecause you have,
Preston (32:24):
wrote, Nessa becoming the Wicked Witch of the East.
It felt like I, it just happenedso fast
Carson (32:29):
oh my gosh.
It was like,
Preston (32:31):
In the Broadway show.
It just, it's been a littlewhile.
I'm gonna admit it's been awhile since I've seen it,
Carson (32:36):
yeah, yeah.
Totally.
Preston (32:37):
being shocked by that.
I don't remember being like, didthey do this?
Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa.
When did she become evil?
It felt like a very naturalprogression, to the point where
whenever it was revealed, she'sthe wicked witch of the east.
I was like, that's cool.
Like, it, it was the,
Carson (32:53):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (32:53):
You wanna have in a reveal like that.
Whenever I saw that on stagewhere I was like, that's cool.
That's neat.
I like that they did that.
They really built toward that towhere I really didn't think of
it.
And even if I had thought of it,it was still a cool arc to kind
of get her to become this.
Whereas in the film it was like,oh, oh, she's evil now.
then two minutes later, oh, thehouse fell on her.
Carson (33:14):
Y literally two minutes.
Like it was, it was a wa That'swhat I,
Preston (33:21):
With their wands.
And,
Carson (33:24):
it was
Preston (33:24):
be, to be honest, one of, in that scene, one of the
biggest laughs of the wholemovie, one of my favorite
moments of the whole movie is,you know, alphabet does her
little cackle and then Glindadoes a, she mocks it a little
bit.
She does her little, little,little, where'd you get that?
And, or like, where'd that comefrom?
(33:45):
And it's funny and it's, Ireally,
Carson (33:47):
really funny.
Preston (33:49):
But then I watched it back and I was like, does it
look like that?
It looks like a Toyotacommercial.
I mean, it just, it looks
Carson (33:56):
Yes, it's bad.
Yeah.
Preston (33:58):
to the point where I'm like, ah, dang, that sucks.
And I think that can be said fora lot of both of these films.
Kind of back to the point I wasgonna say about no good deed.
The one song that is known aslike, really the, the
Carson (34:11):
Be a song of the second act.
Preston (34:12):
love what Cynthia Avo did love the song.
You know, I'll re-listen to it,the movie version any day.
And I think that John MRE isable to hide behind the song a
little bit in this, the way hewas in Act one, but overall, you
look at that song and the way itwas shot, he's not really able
to hide behind it, because ofthe rest of the film to the
(34:34):
point where no good deed becomesjust really a lot of CGI slop.
It's just.
what it could be.
What it should be, in myopinion.
Carson (34:45):
Yeah., It's actually shocking too that like, it
seems, I saw another review gointo this.
It was talking about like,because the whole
interconnection with this whole,franchise, musical.
All of it, building off eachother.
It's like you almost have theopportunity to, you know, update
(35:08):
it for the times in terms oflike, moving the story forward.
Preston (35:13):
Yeah.
Carson (35:13):
it's so fascinating to watch, I mean, this movie
literally opened with thebuffaloes or whatever, literally
being tortured carrying theyellow brick road.
And like, you're like, oh, oh,shit.
Like, okay, here we go.
All this stuff is being set up,both animals, all this stuff,
all, you know, you think there'sgonna be this whole payoff with
(35:36):
the animals and ba and like,like, you know, maybe some more
reckoning of like, you get allthe propaganda stuff, but like,
you don't really, there's noinsight into like.
The ground level of these, thepeople in the universe and why
they believe these things.
And obviously like we know it's'cause of the wizard and
everything, but there's notreally, context around stuff.
(36:00):
And so by the time you get tothe ending of this movie, I
found it more sad thanuplifting, like,
unintentionally.
And I know it's like they weretrying it and so it's like you
have all these things at oddsand then like it wraps up and
she's like, she's alive, butshe's going into a Raku.
(36:21):
Like,
Preston (36:22):
Yeah.
Carson (36:22):
I'm like, that's horrible.
And then, Ariana Grande takesover and she's like, guess the
animals are cool now.
Yeah, we were friends, but Iwon't tell anybody what really
happened and I gotta stay goodfor good.
And I'm like.
Really the, it's just a littleshallow to me that like, we wrap
(36:44):
this up in a bundle of joy and Iknow, you know, sort of the
point is like that she issteadfast and is carrying on for
ba and like, creating the worldthat they would want to see.
But like, you have all thismessaging about the entire
system failing these people andcorrupting their world.
(37:06):
And then it's like, we're justgonna turn the lights back on.
And it's all good guys.
We solved racism, we solved it.
It's good.
The animals are cool now cut tothe goat back in the classroom.
Preston (37:21):
Right.
Carson (37:22):
We're good
Preston (37:23):
cut to the goat back in the classroom, but we don't care
enough to pay Peter Dinkle tocome back for this movie.
Carson (37:28):
travesty.
And so it, it, it's like,
Preston (37:33):
in
Carson (37:33):
oh.
Preston (37:34):
you need those heavy moments, when you need someone
to sell the animal arc,
Carson (37:38):
He's the guy.
Where was that?
There was no follow up.
Preston (37:43):
Jeff Goldblum cannot do
Carson (37:44):
Failed to do.
Preston (37:45):
one, Peter Dinkle absolutely can do that.
And he's a CGI goat.
We don't even see a space goldbloom has
Carson (37:52):
is.
Preston (37:53):
benefit of doing real life performance,
Carson (37:57):
Instead we get, let's just address the lion in the
room.
Preston (38:02):
right?
Carson (38:02):
The cowardly lion.
What a, I know it's part of it,right?
Preston (38:08):
Yeah.
Carson (38:09):
But like, oh, love Coleman Domingo.
But what are we doing?
Preston (38:13):
Yeah.
Carson (38:13):
like, guys, this is, this was not it.
It, it's, even if that's what itis in the play.
I don't know.
It's just so dumb.
Oh, you let me out of the cageof the home I knew.
I'm like, there's one thing I'mchanging.
It's just such a, Ugh.
It was just such a waste becauseyou have the whole buildup with
the, the bear and they're like,that song was actually, I really
(38:36):
enjoyed that song of her, in theWoods.
And then like, we get Nothingbetween.
Preston (38:41):
the
Carson (38:42):
Yeah.
Which was gr
Preston (38:43):
And
Carson (38:44):
I like that one.
Preston (38:45):
like home.
No place like home, no placelike home.
And she ends up leaving home theend of the movie.
I thought
Carson (38:53):
Again.
Preston (38:54):
know if you thought about that.
Carson (38:55):
Yes.
Preston (38:56):
song where she's singing no Place like home, no
place like home and the end ofthe film, she's just, she just
Carson (39:03):
And if I'm the animals, like what, why would I trust
anybody to come back right away?
Like it's just the whole thingis just like on two x speed
character arc.
Like, it feels like the videogame cut scene sped up.
All right.
We're here back in the castle.
Oh, oh.
We're back to the original scenethat we saw on the first part of
the first movie.
Here we go.
(39:24):
And it just doesn't hit for methe same.
Like, it just, I wanted to feelso much more emotional weight of
when that, when that girlinterrupts her and goes, is it
true that you're friends withher?
Like I wanted to choke up and belike, wow, we've been on this
journey and I'm buying in tothis wrapping up right now.
And like, dang,
Preston (39:44):
Yeah,
Carson (39:44):
is insanely good.
But it just didn't, it didn'thit, and it's a bummer.
Preston (39:51):
It is a bummer.
I think a lot of the issues are,for better or for worse, that
they stayed true to the Broadwayshow in Act two.
Carson (40:02):
Yeah.
Preston (40:03):
And I think there's something to be said about, I
mentioned it earlier, but thereis something to be said about
the fact that when you'rewatching Wicked on Broadway, act
two.
Happens fresh off the heels ofAct One.
You're watching this happenregardless of what you think
(40:24):
about the plot or the songs notbeing what they were.
It's happening, you know, 10minutes after you, you just saw
defying gravity live on stageand
Carson (40:37):
Yeah, that's insane to think about.
Preston (40:39):
Yeah.
you're riding a high a littlebit.
And it's not, so bad wise,musically whatever.
I don't think that it's so badthat it's gonna suck that high
out.
I don't think you're gonna falloff of that when you're watching
it in a theater, like a stagetheater.
I don't think it's like that.
And that's now wasn't myexperience.
(41:00):
And that's why, it's become ofthe most profitable, musicals of
all time is because.
The shortcomings you may have inAct two, one, a lot of them are
carried by no good deed falling.
Where it does in the act, it'skind of right in the middle.
It's where there's a little bit,I wouldn't say that there's a
(41:20):
lull, but, it definitely givesyou a pick me up.
If you are in a moment of notbeing as sure about Act two as
you were about Act one.
You know, maybe the high isbeginning to wear off a little
bit and then bam, no good deed,really, really brings you back
into it because of how good thatsong is.
And then after that, you don'thave much longer until the very
end of the show.
(41:41):
But number two, it's also justbenefiting from the fact that
you just saw Act one just now.
It's all one continuousexperience.
This show is, and so when youleave Wicked.
On stage, when you leave a stageperformance of Wicked, you're
probably more likely to beraving about it because you're
(42:02):
raving about the entire thing.
You're raving about Act One andAct two.
You're raving about defyinggravity.
You're raving about all of it asone continuous experience.
Carson (42:13):
Yep.
Preston (42:15):
in this film, you know, I mean, maybe if you saw the
double header, you can try tosell it in your mind that it's
one thing, maybe if you're watch'em back to back, maybe Wicked
for Good is better, but becauseof the length of the two of
them, I mean, wicked For Good istwo hours and 42 minutes long.
That's a long movie.
That's a long movie to, tosustain off of the merits of
(42:38):
Part one, don't think it does.
Carson (42:43):
And it sucks.
It's like you just, I honestly,I wish the script was better.
I wish, I wish they would've.
I, I wonder what this moviewould've turned out of if it
would've been interesting anddiffering from the stage if they
took a beat and say, this moviecame out in 2027 instead of
(43:06):
2025.
Imagine what if there was thatthree year break and.
Allowing the, the story, theseparation of the characters to
really lay with people and tocome up with some better ideas
in the second half of buildingon just some more time for
(43:27):
things to settle in, both fromthe production end and from a
cultural resonance end.
But so often, you know, we arerushing to meet the release
date.
They shot these movies back toback.
They did not stop.
I saw an interview with theeditor, one of the editors the
other day, and it was like, yep,we picked this back up in
(43:48):
January and we did not stopuntil November.
Now granted, most movies getfinished really close to when
they release, but I think thenature of this piece is just a
fascinating way in which.
Blockbusters are produced,especially blockbusters of such
heightened cultural ip, that's ararity.
(44:11):
And, these studios are ravingafter because they know the
recogni recognizability isthere.
They know the emotionalattachment that millennials and,
others, and now Gen z, gen Alphahas with these characters and
with the songs and with ArianaGrande being one of the biggest
pop stars on the planet withCynthia being one of the, best
(44:33):
vocalists to ever exist rightnow.
Like all of that makes them rushtowards the finish line and
makes them go, yes, we need twomovies and we need them a year
apart.
And that doubles our money.
And I think this movie.
Makes that more evident thananything else that it feels like
(44:54):
the speed run next thing.
It doesn't feel like the nextchapter of the Lord of the
Rings.
Even though those movies shotback to back to back, it feels
like a really rushed sequel to alot of good ideas that they had
set up and maybe had thoughtabout more in the first act.
And this was a rough, a roughlanding.
(45:16):
It was,
Preston (45:18):
So with
Carson (45:19):
oh,
Preston (45:19):
said, Carson, do you think that a wicked three of
some sort will happen?
And if it does, what do you dowith it?
Carson (45:36):
I could see.
It's one of those conundrumsthat like happens a lot in
adapted media that's like you'realmost free of the source
material now that like
Preston (45:48):
Well,
Carson (45:48):
it's kind of limitless.
Oh, it keeps going.
Preston (45:52):
oh my goodness.
Let me, I'm gonna look it up
Carson (45:56):
Yeah.
Before I speak
Preston (45:57):
before you
Carson (45:58):
about the
Preston (45:59):
looking up Wicked
Carson (46:01):
timeline and like if more books go into the future,
'cause that would ruin my wholeargument here.
Preston (46:08):
there are books.
It looks like there's fourbooks.
Just, I'm looking on thisWalmart link now.
I
Carson (46:14):
Yeah.
Preston (46:15):
are about.
You are, if you're strictlybasing, you say like you're
strictly and off of the,Broadway show.
Yeah.
You're out.
You're outta material.
'cause that was,
Carson (46:25):
Okay, let's just go with that for now.
It would be interesting to havea fresh take on this world, and
shift the tone a bit.
You could probably pull off somesort of legacy sequel.
I think it would be unfortunateif it came out in like two
years.
Like I just don't think it wouldhit, like in terms of being like
a reawakening of the franchise.
(46:47):
I know they've talked about likespinoffs too.
Like I just think it's sort of abad idea to do that.
And I don't really, one, I don'tknow enough about it if like.
Any of these characters couldsupport their own spinoff.
Obviously, like what I just saidbefore, you can invent whatever
you want for these characters,but it is fascinating'cause it's
like, yeah, I don't know if, Ithink there was a quote from the
(47:09):
writer the other day of like, Idon't know if it would be about
Alphabet and Glinda, but youknow, yeah, we, we could try and
it's like, it also just makesthe ending to this movie Wicked
for Good, that much more bleakthat it's like there's something
about I know it's like everyfranchise ever, that final isn't
(47:31):
final, but like there'ssomething about this stage play
being final with itself and thenthe adaptation being final with
itself.
That like makes the story morepowerful in a way.
And I think.
It would be a toss up if you'dgo forward and yeah, it'd be
crazy.
(47:51):
What do you think?
Like, do you think they couldbring her back alphabet from the
whatever,
Preston (47:57):
I think if they want it, they'll do whatever they
want to do.
If they can get Cynthia Avo andAriana Grande to sign, if they
can get the two of them, that'smy take.
Carson (48:05):
sign back on?
Yeah.
Preston (48:06):
to sign back on to do this again, they're gonna do it.
Carson (48:10):
Yeah,
Preston (48:10):
of,
Carson (48:11):
I think you're right.
Preston (48:12):
I mean, it's a cash cow and I think it's a cash cow
because of them two.
Especially
Carson (48:19):
A hundred percent, yeah.
Preston (48:19):
as I have done a little bit of research in the last, uh,
120 seconds.
There are four books
Carson (48:26):
Okay.
Preston (48:26):
the first one was written in 1995.
That is the only one, that hasbeen adapted into anything that
that was.
The book is titled Wicked.
It was turned into, the musicaland then that was turned into
the film.
The musical came out in 2003.
(48:49):
Two years later, the authorreleased another book titled Son
of a Witch, Son of AlphabetThroop.
Um, three
Carson (48:59):
Oh man.
So the writing's on the
Preston (49:00):
there's
Carson (49:00):
wall.
Preston (49:01):
three years after that.
There's one titled A Lion AmongMen.
It looks like one of the maincharacters is the Cowardly Lion
that says, and then in 2011there was one called Out of Oz,
which was the final installmentof the main line series that
they made, follows thegranddaughter of Alphabet, whose
(49:22):
name is as Civil War anddepression reigns over the land
of Oz.
So, I don't know,
Carson (49:30):
Wow.
Oh wow.
That, that's,
Preston (49:33):
to do it, they'll do it.
And with how much money thisone's raking in, I could see
them certainly trying, actuallyno, I, I know that they'll try
something.
Maybe that's like a spinoff.
Maybe that's something that justgoes straight to like HBO Max or
Peacock or whatever.
Maybe it's not, maybe they tryand do a whole other movie.
(49:54):
I don't know what you make thewhole other movie.
And I I will say flatly, if youdon't have Cynthia Ervo and
Ariana Grande, it's not gonnawork way that these two worked.
It's not gonna make the money
Carson (50:06):
Especially if it's a straight up musical,
Preston (50:09):
Whatever.
They try it seems as if Elba andGlinda aren't, at the very
least, they're not the titularcharacters, then you're number
one, if you do get Cynthia andAriana back, they're not gonna
be as big of parts.
Uh, their roles are
Carson (50:24):
Yeah.
Preston (50:24):
They're gonna be a little bit, muted.
I don't know.
That it would work.
I think you kind of also backedyourself into a corner in for
good, because you tried so hardto connect this to Wizard of Oz,
to where it's
Carson (50:38):
Yes.
Preston (50:39):
well, we know
Carson (50:41):
You can't reccon yourself even though you Yeah,
it is.
It's, yeah.
Preston (50:46):
you've, you've, you're, too much in lockstep with that
film.
And so
Carson (50:51):
Yeah,
Preston (50:51):
think that's kind of maybe an issue going against
them too, that they would haveto take into consideration.
But yeah, I think they'll tryit, whether they get Cynthia or
Ariana back, they'll trysomething.
It may be like a TV
Carson (51:01):
yeah.
Preston (51:02):
Or something that is lesser in scale, but they will
not let this die.
Carson (51:07):
Yeah.
So what's your final takeawayhere?
Mine is, I enjoyed the firstmovie and I wanted this to be
like.
I wanted to love this nextmovie.
What I really wish, I reallywish things turned out better,
and it sucks because the talentinvolved, especially the actors,
(51:29):
is so high caliber that likeit's even more of a letdown
because I saw glimpses of likegood character moments, good
performances, obviously goodsinging.
It was all there.
It's like, it's like one ofthose deals where you have all
the ingredients.
It's just they, it wasundercooked, unfortunately.
(51:50):
That's kind of my deal.
How about you?
Preston (51:53):
That's probably my final take as well.
I really liked the first onequite a lot.
I think it deserved a lot of theOscar nominations that it got.
I think it.
Best picture.
I don't know about that, but itwas really good.
And I really liked it.
I think that Grande and CynthiaErvo are just, showstopping as a
duo, they're incredible.
(52:13):
They carry both films and thelarger cast as well.
There are some otherperformances that are good.
I mentioned Ethan Slater and forGood.
I really liked him in that, inthat, in the
Carson (52:25):
Yeah.
Preston (52:25):
Um,
Carson (52:26):
he got more screen time to develop what his character
was,
Preston (52:29):
we got more of
Carson (52:30):
which sucks,
Preston (52:30):
but yeah, to your point, a lot of moments that are
there.
You get a lot of teases, you geta lot of like, oh, this, you
know, you get moments whereglimpses what this could be.
Carson (52:42):
Yes.
Preston (52:43):
I think in part one, a lot of those, you know, maybe
this is what this could be,moments are fulfilled to an
extent due to the fact that it'sa part one,
Carson (52:53):
Yep.
Preston (52:54):
of helps it in that
Carson (52:54):
And you don't have to follow it up.
It's, yep.
Preston (52:57):
to tie up every loose end necessarily.
It can kinda let those momentsbe, and you're riding on the
heels of some of the greatestmusic ever written for a
Broadway musical, and that, aslam dunk regardless.
But yeah, I think overall it's avery anti climactic conclusion.
False flat.
(53:18):
it's sad because of the factthat it's not for good is not
entirely terrible.
I don't look at this and saythis is totally amis.
You do have those glimpses whatit could be.
There's a lot of glimpses of
Carson (53:32):
Mm-hmm.
Preston (53:35):
I think it's a shame for specifically, Ariana Grande.
I still think that she isincredible.
I loved
Carson (53:42):
Yeah,
Preston (53:42):
of these movies.
I loved her in
Carson (53:44):
I'll be so curious.
Preston (53:46):
and
Carson (53:46):
So curious how this movie ages like, I don't know.
You know, I, I had fallen.
Preston (53:55):
gonna be a lot easier than rewatching part
Carson (53:56):
Yes.
And it was, that's what I wentthrough.
And so like, you haven't hadthat experience yet, but like, I
don't know, like, you know, likeI, I think I'm going to
associate these withThanksgiving time obviously.
'cause that's when they, theycame out and sort of like, I
think there's obviously thefamily element of like, going to
the movie with your family andlike watching this and like, the
big, big cultural musical thatcomes out and sort of,
(54:19):
everyone's going to see like thetheaters were packed.
Yeah.
And it, it's like, will this, tobring it back to the meme, we
started this whole thing withwill this hold space in my brain
for years to come?
I honestly, I don't think soright now.
(54:40):
Kelly was surprised I wasventing about this more
passionately than normal when wewere leaving the theater.
And she's like, I thought youliked it when we left.
You know, I was just kind ofbeing, oh yeah.
So, yeah, it was good.
And then, you know, you get outthe theater, you get out of the
crowd and you're like, okay, nowI can let loose get to the
parking lot.
You're at least six feet awayfrom people.
You're like, whoa, that wasmessy movie.
(55:01):
And she's like, what?
And so it's kind of in a funny,funny, venting journey these
past couple days.
But I'll be curious to see, Iread your letter box review and
I wrote a bunch of letter boxreviews.
I have not given it a starranking yet.
I'd be curious to see where itstacks up in my 2025 movies.
'Cause it's at that point whereit's like right down the middle
(55:25):
that like, then I start be like,well.
I gave that movie less stars,but I kind of enjoyed it better
than this one.
But that makes me look like anasshole.
If I put this below this andthen I'm like, what is the point
of rankings?
Preston (55:38):
What are we doing?
Carson (55:38):
Go down that rabbit hole.
Preston (55:40):
this.
Yeah.
Carson (55:41):
Yeah, exactly.
So
Preston (55:43):
movies.
not
Carson (55:44):
I
Preston (55:44):
We've got more.
The year is almost over, but weare not almost over.
We've got more exciting stuff onthe way.
Carson, I'm glad we got to talka little bit of wicked.
I'm excited for what we gotcoming up next, with these
future episodes.
We mentioned a little bit ofknives Out avatar, less than a
month away.
That's crazy.
Um, amongst other
Carson (56:03):
repair to be, for us to be insufferable for the next two
to three months.
Preston (56:09):
If you are tired of listening to the Two of Us gripe
about a movie that we were letdown by, well,
Carson (56:15):
is on the agenda.
Preston (56:17):
I'm knocking
Carson (56:17):
Let's just.
Preston (56:18):
but you just wait for the release of Avatar Fire and
Ash next month.
joy is on the agenda, that's forsure.
Carson, any final thoughtsbefore we hop off this thing?
Carson (56:29):
Not really.
You know, I think there's a lotof good movies to end 2025 with
to kind of chase this one downwith.
And I'm excited to talk about, Ican't believe Wake Up Dead Man
comes out this Thanksgivingweek.
That's exciting.
I can't believe we have a fulltrilogy of that now.
That's insane to say.
Preston (56:47):
awesome
Carson (56:48):
And yeah, like there's a lot of stuff that I feel like
both of us want to and need tocatch up on.
It's gonna be fun to talk aboutkind of wrapping up our, our
movie year.
I know it's like that fun timeand you're sitting there in
January and February when it'scold outside and you're like,
yes, I am going to watch 10movies in the next two weeks and
(57:08):
act like I was their biggestproprietor for the last six
months.
And then all of our otherfriends be like, you guys are
such.
False cinephiles, and we had tosay, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
We watch the movie.
You watch the movie, we did it.
Preston (57:27):
And on that note, we're gonna call it, if you're
listening to this still, thankyou for listening, to our Wicked
and Wicked for good review.
No one mourns the Wicked, but wedo mourn.
Wicked for good a little bit.
Uh, so tune into our otherepisodes though if you'd like
to.
They're all upright now.
Make sure you turn onnotifications, subscribe
wherever you listen to yourpodcast, and we will be back
(57:48):
with another one very soon.
Signing off for myself andCarson.
We will see you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.