Day of the Dead | Zombie Book Club Ep 99 - Zombie Book Club

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:20):
Welcome to Zombie Book Club, the only book club
where the book is an undergroundscience lab and the army is
there and they hate science.
I love science, I hate science.
We're at odds now.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Let's get a divorce.
It's over.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, Get out of the underground bunker Leah.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
That's what we're recording right now.
I'm not leaving Fine.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
I'll leave.
Then Okay, I'm Dan.
And when I'm not leaving, fine,I'll leave.
Then Okay, I'm Dan.
And what am I doing?
Science in my own undergroundbunker.
I'm writing a book about azombie apocalypse, and it could
have been easily avoided if notfor government and military
mismanagement under the crisis.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Under the crisis.
They're underneath the crisis.
You heard me and I'm Leah andyes, I just watched Day of the
Dead for the very first timeyesterday, may 25th.
I'm Leah and, yes, I justwatched Day of the Dead for the
very first time yesterday, may25th.
I'm going to timestamp it May25th 2025 was the first time,
but not the last time, I watchedDay of the Dead.
I am a late bloomer to theapocalypse.
Please forgive me, bub, I loveyou.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
I love you, Bub.
Bub has no forgiveness in hisheart.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yes, he does Not anymore.
If I befriended him likeFrankenstein did, he would.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
That he does not anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
If I befriended him like frankenstein did.
He would, that's true, but hemight.
He might be fully rotted by now, because it is a 40 year
anniversary, it is of day of thedead yeah, you want.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
You want to know a fun fact about day of the dead
yes um, I watched day of thedead for the first time a long
long time ago, by downloading iton limimeWire probably, and I
really haven't seen it sincethen because I decided back then
when I was a young boy, how oldwere you?

Speaker 2 (01:50):
LimeWire like 16?
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
I was in my early 20s .
But yeah, I was, like you knowwhat, not my favorite Romero
movie.
I don't know if I even like it,wow.
So I didn't watch it again.
So when we rewatched it, thiswas the first time in like
almost 20 years probably, thatI've watched this movie and
realized, wow, it's actuallygreat and it might be my

(02:17):
favorite Romero movie.
Now I think it is mine.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
And it's also George Romero's favorite movie of the
series, so I feel like that saysa lot yeah, yeah definitely.
If you're a total newbie likeme, this episode is going to be
like a crash course inunderground bunkers, sentient
zombies and 80s era militarymeltdowns.
But if you're a die-hard romerofan like dan although now I'm
realizing you won't have thatmuch of a nerdy refresher
because you threw this one inthe bin- yeah, I was I was like

(02:44):
I'm not smart enough tounderstand this in the garbage.
Oh, I think we may have justmade everybody who found us at
Living Dead Weekend turn thisoff.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Well, yeah, I took it back, though I definitely am.
I'm a huge fan, though, that'strue.
You know when in life you startoff with this brain that you're
given when you were born?
Yeah, it's a fresh brain andmuch like Bub.
Over time it can learn newthings, and the first time I
watched Day of the Dead, mybrain was a rotting, shambling

(03:18):
zombie brain.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Your brain was post-Afghanistan brain, so I can
see that you probably were likeI want more violence and less
existential questions.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, you know, I probably didn't like it because
they were underground the wholetime.
It's not a good feeling, but Ithink that was intentional, like
that's the idea.
It's like, yeah, it sucks downhere, doesn't it?

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, it's surrounded by cinder blocks.
Yeah, it's not cool, four milesunderground or something like
that.
If you haven't guessed it,we're talking about Day of the
Dead today.
George Romero's 1985 film, ohreally, yeah, right in time for
our very first Living Deadweekend that we're going
together.
Yeah, this will be coming outthe weekend that that event is
happening.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, it's probably coming out right as we're
talking to somebody and they'llthey'll look, they'll check us
out, They'll look us up andthey'll be like, wow, they put
out this episode where theyrecording this at the booth when
I was talking to them.
And no, we recorded it twoweeks ago.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, unfortunately we have not cracked time travel
working on it.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Oh, you know what I mean.
It would solve so many problems.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
And if you are at Living Dead Weekend right now,
you should come say hi to us,yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, if you're hearing this, While we're here.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
If it's the past, you should come say hi to us via
our newsletter.
Yeah, or subscribe, or so.
I'm so sorry.
Sub Scooby-Doo.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, I wrote it today.
One of these days we're justgoing to say subscribe, I just
did.
One of these days we're justgoing to say subscribe, I just
did.
Yeah, you did it by accident.
I'll edit it out, don't worry.
Okay, I won't.
Let's talk about this movie incase no one's ever seen it
before.
It's possible.
It's possible that no one'sever seen this before.

(04:58):
I feel like most people knowwhat Dawn of the Dead is,
because there was a very popularremake of it.
Everybody knows what Night ofthe Living Dead is, because
there was a very popular remakeof it.
Everybody knows what Night ofthe Living Dead is, even if
they've only heard of the title.
But Day of the Dead might havegone under their radar because,
you know, like me, when I had arotting zombie brain probably
didn't talk about it highlyenough to people who were like

(05:20):
what are some good zombie movies?
I don't know where I was goingwith that.
Anyways, people might not haveseen this movie, and they should
.
They should if they like Romeromovies.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
I'm a really late-to-the-party Romero fan,
but I'm a big fan now.
Yeah, I replaced my horse habitafter my horse died with
zombies.
I've realized, and all the loveI had for my horse I now have
for George Romero, and all thelove I had for my horse I now
have for George.
Romero and he's also dead, soat least I can watch the movies.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Is there a Leah subplot where Leah is trying to
bring things back from the dead?
Possibly Is this something youshould talk about with your
therapist.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
I mean it hasn't entered my dreams yet.
So I think I'm okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Well, the second you have a zombie atlas.
Combo dream, combo dream I'vehad atlas dreams.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Atlas is my horse, for anyone who has not heard me
uh lament about him in previousepisodes.
Or my now dead horse,unfortunately not undead yeah
horse, or maybe fortunately.
I guess it depends if he, ifatlas was like a bub zombie
horse, then could be great.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, he'd live it up if he was a bub horse.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
He could even be more compliant and undeath than life
, because he was very stubborn.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah, I don't think a whole lot would have changed.
His feet would still smellhorrible.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
That's because he had abscess problems and he might
chomp on your arm instead of acarrot.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
He would continue to have abscess problems, except he
would try to be eating us whilewe're fixing it.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Maybe that's how I had the horses to zombie
pipeline.
Happen for me was the putridsmell of Atlas's hoof abscesses
in the last six months of hislife that I was constantly
dealing with, which is not whyhe died, and I feel like this
has gone really sideways.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, we've gone really off the rails here.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Let's talk about Day of the Dead.
Dan, give us a quick rundown.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
What is this movie about?
Oh well, if you've never seen azombie movie, this is a world
overrun by zombies.
So try to imagine that there isa small group of scientists and
soldiers trapped inside of anunderground bunker I think it's
a missile silo and they'retrying to find a solution to the
outbreak, exploring multipleavenues for that.

(07:32):
Of course, tensions rise as themilitary becomes more
aggressive and unstable, whilethe scientists, especially Dr
Logan aka Frankensteinstein,conduct experiments on the
undead Very unhinged experiments.
I totally forgot about thezombie that has his entire skull

(07:56):
removed and only the brain andstem are attached to a body.
It's deeply disturbing buthonestly amazing to see, I mean
if you're going to do I mean ifyou're gonna do science, that's
how you do science or the otherzombie that he had taken out
every single organ except forthe brain yeah including the
stomach, and that was stillhungry yeah, I, I get that

(08:20):
relatable dan relatable.
Uh, one of the zombies, bub,shows signs of intelligence and
memory, challenging the ideathat the undead are mindless.
Meanwhile, the group fracturesunder pressure, leading to a
brutal showdown between theliving and the dead.
The film ends with only a fewsurvivors escaping to a remote

(08:41):
island as civilization collapses, which is actually kind of a
bit of a change from theprevious two movies, that kind
of end with the unknown With theunknown, some kind of hope
possibly.
Well, the first one endedpretty dark.
Night of the Living Dead endedwith like hey, here's what
racism looks like.
And Dawn of the Dead is like.

(09:04):
It ends with like hey, let's,we're fucked, but let's ride in
a helicopter and go somewhere, Iguess.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
And then, yeah, day of the Dead ends at an island.
Maybe Jamaica, we don't know,could be.
It looks very Caribbean andlovely.
Or maybe it was just the Keysin Florida, since it is based in
the Keys.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Or not the.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Keys Florida.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
I believe that they were located somewhere near
Miami, so they've got a lot ofchoices.
I feel like going to Jamaicawould probably be a bad idea.
Highly populated.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Before we get into this movie, I have to name one
thing that was not believableabout it.
I don't believe there's abunker in Florida.
Yeah, I just I don't think youcan dig that deep in Florida
without hitting the ocean, sounderground water.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
That's all I'm saying .
Well, I don't know if it's trueor not.
Will to dig bunkers?
Probably would have battledthat at any cost to the American

(10:09):
taxpayer.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Throughout central Florida.
The Floridian aquifer is 100 to200 feet beneath the land
surface.
I thought this thing was acouple miles deep they
referenced, but it was actuallyfilmed in a bunker in
Pennsylvania, even though it wasin Florida.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
All of the shots of the main elevator and the
missile silo actually filmed ina bunker in pennsylvania, even
though it was in florida, um, Imean all of all of the shots of,
like, the main elevator and themissile silo doesn't give me
the impression that they'remiles below the surface okay, so
they could be 50 feet below thesurface and this would work.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
I'll, yeah, I'll take it.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
I'll take it yeah, the silo itself might be like a
hundred, um, possibly, uh.
But I mean I I think like whenthey were building stuff like
this between the 1950s to the1980s for the Cold War, like
they didn't give a shit whatkind of, what kind of costs they

(10:57):
would incur.
They're like no, we need amissile silo.
I don't care, I don't care ifit's in the middle of a lake.
Drain the lake, just get thelake out of there.
Middle of a lake Drain the lake, just get the lake out of there
.
Put a missile silo in, bringthe lake back.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
That does sound like an American thing to do.
You're right, dan.
It's the 40th anniversary ofthe movie 48th, 40th, 40th,
4-0-t-h.
40th and a bunch of the actors,cinematographers, creators of
the film are going to be at theevent.
Yeah, are you more or lessnervous to see them than the

(11:32):
Dawn of the Dead actors?
Oh, you're standing in front ofGreg Nicotero now.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
I mean that would be pretty cool because I mean it's
a lot, I'm nervous to meeteverybody.
I you know, being that we havea booth there.
I don't, I don't know, I don'tknow if, like, are we going to
be able to see these things LikeI don't like what's going on, I
don't know, I don't know whatwe're doing.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
I can sit at the booth while you go shake Greg.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
I'm getting stressed out already.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
You can shake Tom Savini's hand, greg Nicotero's
hand, michael Gornick thecinematographer's hand.
You can offer them handsanitizer after you've shaken
their hand.
Shook, their hand.
Shook, shaken, shook.
I feel like it's shaken baconor like shaken chicken.
Anyways, shake and bake, andbake.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Shake and bake.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Anyways, you can shake their hands or wave at
them.
I might just wave from adistance.
So for anybody who is cluelesslike me, prior to this movie.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Who's tom savini?
Greg nicotero and michaelgornick.
So tom savini has been uminvolved with george romero
since the very beginning.
Tom savini was the specialeffects makeup artist.
Uh, so he, he did the makeupfor all the zombies.
He does all the gore.
He does like the all the thetorn apart carcasses on the
ground.
He does stuff like that.

(12:52):
Prosthetic makeup is, uh, is isthe official title, um, and
he's a master of that.
Tom savini also played theleader of the motorcycle gang in
Dawn of the Dead.
He also played many other roles.
He played the role of SexMachine in From Dusk Till Dawn.

(13:12):
He was a guy that was amotorcycle guy and he had a gun
that came out where his dick was.
Wow.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
That is probably so many dudes' fantasies.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, he had a gun for a dick.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Although, wouldn't it be kind of problematic, because
then you can only use it forone thing and not the other
thing?
Yeah, well, it was a codpiece.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
A what A codpiece.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
What's that?

Speaker 1 (13:33):
It's like a cup that goes over the dick in his house.
Oh, so you're saying there's adick under there?
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
He wears it on the outside.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
He didn't replace his dick with a gun.
I thought it was like a cyborgdick situation.
But yeah, he's veryrecognizable, he just has that
face.
He also directed the 1990remake of Night of the Living
Dead.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, what's really interesting about the
relationship between Tom Saviniand Greg Nicotero?
Greg Nicotero you might haveseen in the credits of the
Walking Dead, like every season,again, as a prosthetic makeup
artist, as an executive producer, as a writer, as a director, as

(14:20):
a camera operator, as a stuntcoordinator Also, he plays as a
stunt coordinator, um, also, heplays roles of zombies,
sometimes like he played therole of the zombie eating a deer
.
And the walking dead, seasonone, episode three, tell it to
the frogs, Wow, uh, so he, helikes to dress up as zombies.

(14:40):
Anyways, my point is is thatGreg Nicotero got his start in
the film industry as tomsavini's apprentice in this
movie day of the dead.
This was his first film creditand since then he went to go
work on pretty much every 80shorror movie up until you know

(15:02):
modern times, as as a specialeffects makeup artist.
Um, so, like Friday the 13th,uh, the fan, uh, phantasm two,
um, I mean, you name it.
He was probably in it from dusktill dawn.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
This is what I mean by I'm the newbie and Dan's the
nerdy.
Yeah, newbie and nerdy overhere.
Well, I mean, I just learnedthis today oh well, you're
repeating it like you've done itforever, like this is not show
notes.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
I memorized the Wikipedia.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Okay, this is the man I married.
I love you.
Yeah, it's amazing.
Michael Gornick, thecinematographer of the film, is
also also loved on the dead, butnot as much the 1978.

(15:51):
When we reviewed a coupleepisodes ago, I was most excited
to meet folks from night of theliving dead.
Now I am fully nerded out andnervous to meet everybody from
day of the dead because I wantto ask them questions and I want
to be like will you come on ourlittle podcast?
yeah, please so yeah, please uh,because I just now I'm really

(16:16):
curious what it was like to bethere making this, making
something so iconic, and like Iwonder if they knew at the time
just what they had done.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Oh yeah, I don't know , like.
I mean, how many times have youdone something in your life
where you're like this issignificant and I'm going to
remember this for the rest of mylife and it's changing
everything right now as I liveit?

Speaker 2 (16:36):
I mean, that's happened in my life, but nothing
that is changing the fuckingculture of the world around me
and it has a 40-year and like isa cult classic.
That's a little different.
I've had like momentous lifemoments for me, but I don't
think anybody else would be like, hey, leah, it's the 40th
anniversary of that time.
You met dan on the internet, onicq we're not that old not yet.

(17:00):
How many wait?
How many years has it been now,though?
let's not say okay, well, ifanybody knows what icq is,
that'll date us all by itself.
Yeah, let's get into the maincharacters.
Yeah, also many of them atliving dead weekend.
I'm getting so nervous, yeah I,I loved the characters.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, I, you know I watched so many movies where I'm
just like I don't really payattention to who's who, because
a lot of times there's justcharacters that aren't written
very well, but this movie, it'slike everything was alive in
this movie.
Let's start with Dr SarahBowman, the main character, the

(17:43):
only woman in the bunker, theonly woman Unfortunate, the only
one unfortunate for her, isn'tshe?

Speaker 2 (17:47):
yeah, yes, you're right, and she's trying to
research the cause of the zombieoutbreak, uh, and we'll get
into her in great detail.
But laurie cardill oh, I reallyshould look at these people's
names because it's gonna be evenmore embarrassing when I say it
wrong.
But laurie's gonna be there.
The actor at living deadweekend.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah, terry alexander , who plays john fly boy but a
way cooler fly boy than donaldthe dead way cooler fly boy um
the group's helicopter pilot andjamaican and the only black man
in the bunker yeah, also goingto be a living dead weekend also
going to be a living deadweekend.
Um bill mcdermott, the onlyirish man, the only irish man,

(18:24):
they I was gonna say the onlyalcoholic, but I don't think
that's true.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
I think a lot of people were.
Yeah, devolving into alcoholism, yeah, I forget who it was.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Was it private steel?
Who's who, like?

Speaker 2 (18:36):
criticized uh bill's bill for being an alcoholic
while throwing an empty beer canat him well, jarleth conroy,
the play, the actor for billmcdermott, is also going to be
at living dead weekend yeah, Ilove that.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
The note here is the group's alcoholic radio
operators.
It's like these are, these areyour, these are the things you
are.
Um, uh, sherman howard whoplays bub, a uh, friendly,
captured zombie.
Zombie taught by Logan toengage passively in human
behavior.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Also going to be a living dead weekend.
That's the one I want to meetthe most, because I think that
he killed it.
Yeah, playing a zombie withfeelings yeah, also like zombie.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
Really well done.
How does he do that with hismouth?
His mouth looks so like slackand, like I don't know, like
most mouths seem like firm andrigid in some way, like they
only make certain shapes hismouth makes.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
So many shapes.
So when we go and meet shermanhoward we're gonna say can you
make the bub mouth for us?
Show us your mouth apparentlyhe was credited as howard
sherman on the film, but hisname is sherman howard.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, I don't know maybe, maybe we have, but I
think it also says howard sh.
I don't know, maybe, maybe wehave, but I think it also says
Howard Sherman.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
I don't, yeah.
Now I'm like who is where?
I am D M, b, I am to be MB.
Um, yes, his name is actuallySherman Howard, not Howard
Sherman, but I can see howsomebody might mess that up in
the credits.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
I, yeah, I mean, why not?
Why not just switch it up?
Sometimes he looks like alovely guy on the internet.
He's wearing this lovely like alime green fedora.
He's got a nice beard likeyours.
Can't wait to meet him.
Um, in the movie he also hadgreat style as bub.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, I next character, terrifying captain
henry rhodes.
I feel like I've I knew peoplelike this in the army joseph
pilato.
Maybe this is why I didn't likethis in the army, joseph Pilato
.
Maybe this is why I didn't likethis movie when I first watched
it when I was a kid.
I'm like this is too real.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
I love how you keep saying when you were a kid, but
you were like 26.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
I was such a kid.
He is an increasingly mentallyunhinged officer and the
self-appointed leader of themilitary group.
Yeah, so after the major dies,they all come back and they're
like major's dead.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
I'm in charge now yeah, this guy's so unhinged
that because sarah wants toleave a meeting early, he
decides he's going to kill herand the only way she doesn't die
is because she sits back down.
Yeah, and he was serious aboutit.
I think he really would haveshot her yeah, he was.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
He was fully prepared to enact corporal punishment.
Actually, he was orderingprivate steel to shoot her and
then, when private steel justjoked around about it because he
thought that it was a joke,because he thinks everything was
a joke, um, uh, captain rhodesthreatens to execute private
steel for not following hisorder.
So yeah, he, he is full on.

(21:24):
Just, he's going full corporalpunishment.
Yeah, then there's a wholebunch of privates that we didn't
.
We don't have them all writtendown.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
But one of them will be here at Living Dead Weekend
Tasso and Stavrakis Private JuanTorres.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
We played Torres.
I mentioned Steele, I thinkanother one was starts with an R
and the only word I can thinkof is ratso.
And it's definitely not ratso,but he kind of had that kind of
like ratso vibe going on.
He had a high-pitched, insanelaugh.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
I think the most important private is miguel
salazar, though for the movieyeah he is fucked up yeah, he's
been deeply just disturbed byhis reality, seeing his comrades
die, watching the world fallapart and being stuck in a
bunker.
He is, as uh captain rosepoints out, the only man getting
laid because he is sarah'slover yeah and I would not be

(22:25):
that crass.
This is, this is uh, captainroads saying that they.
They definitely discussed it inmuch crasser yes, that was
actually like very classy how Ijust described it comparatively
yeah, you did captain roads afavor by by describing it that
way.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, we're definitely going to be talking
about Private Salazar's issues.
John Amplas I don't know ifthat's how you pronounce that
name Amplas Amplas as Dr TedFisher, one of the scientists.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
He'll be at Living dead weekend as well yeah, him
and john aka flyboy were likethe most stable men of a very
long list of unstable men yeah,I know who you're talking about
now.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, he kind of worked alongside of
uh, sarah as, like her equal inthe scientific side of things,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
And then there is frankenstein, dr matthew logan,
and that's the main surgeon, thescientist, the one who does
things like dismember zombies tosee what happens, yeah, and
tries to train them to be petsyeah, um, I, I love, I love when
sarah's going through his laband just being like this is this
is bad, it's he?

(23:46):
is just to like bring it backfor those who have seen it, or
if you haven't seen it before, Iimagine, uh, an unhinged
science man unhinged science man, uh, fully covered in blood,
and you walk into his laboratoryand there's just a bunch of
strapped down zombies stillalive, but missing a lot of
different parts yeah, with likeprobes stuck into them and and,

(24:07):
uh, and, and he, he almost haslike a childlike glee about all
of it, where he's just, likehe's, so fascinated by
everything that's happening oh,he's loving his excuse to be
able to experiment on formerpeople.
Yeah, and he really has noself-awareness.
Like he sits down at themeeting and he's covered in
blood, his hands are covered inblood and he's like I'm hungry.
What's for dinner?

Speaker 1 (24:26):
yeah, wash your hands and change dude.
There'll be food.
This is right after um captainrhodes was threatening corporal
punishment for not sitting downand he shows up 20 minutes late
and he's just like where's thefood?

Speaker 2 (24:39):
yeah, and no threat for him to get murdered.
Yeah, to point out.
And then g Greg Nicotero playsPrivate Johnson, another one of
the privates.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, I wish I knew before.
I would have kept an eye outfor him.
Love to watch it again BecauseI don't know what 1985 Greg
Nicotero looks like.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
I'm definitely going to watch it again before we go,
because now that I know that I'mgoing to actually meet people
who are in it, I want to payattention to see if I can like
figure out who they are when I'mthere.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
yeah, as their 40 year old herself yeah uh, let's
talk zombies um, it should be nosurprise that these would be
romero zombies, um, so they'reslow and they're dumb.
However, in this movie theyseem a little bit faster and a

(25:24):
little bit smarter than inprevious movies, specifically
like the cave zombies, the onesthat they keep in this cave and
they kind of pull zombies fromthis cave to do experiments on.
They show signs of fear.
They have a hard time wranglingthem, getting them to come out
so that they can grab them,because they're hiding.

(25:46):
They're hiding in the shadows.
They won't come out until they,like entice them.
Uh, private steel um enticesthem by offering to pull out his
, uh, his dick.
Delicious, yeah, um, it worked,I guess they got it.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
They got one and no surprises.
Of romero film there are a lotof very memorable zombies.
Uh, many of them will be atliving dead weekend.
Bub obviously will be there.
Yeah, mike ankus, who is thehead ripping zombie, which is a
very gory scene oh yeah, oh yeahyeah, michael tomaso, the
football zombie.
Yeah, I remember the footballzombie the football zombie

(26:24):
Deborah Gordon was the femalezombie that was chained up in
the very beginning that theycaught.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
So interesting thing about that that I noticed, and I
think that they were trying toinsinuate in the movie they
pulled out two zombies these arethe cave zombies that we just
mentioned and when they caughtDeborah Gordon's zombie
character and pulled her out,there was another zombie, a male
zombie, who was really amped uplike really aggressive, and

(26:53):
they brought him too, because healso went into the cage and I
feel like it insinuates thatthese two were a couple.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah, and they remember their relationship
together.
We should ask Deborah, so thewe should ask being protective,
oh yeah I bet deborah would knowyeah, I feel like we got to
write down questions for thesefolks also.
I bet she's answered thatquestion a hundred times bill
laxo, another zombie's gonna bethere.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
And then jeff monahan I call this the puss moss
zombie because I'm not reallysure what's going on, but
there's like green stuff comingout of his eyes and like on his
face.
Oh, you would remember if yousaw his picture.
Yeah, yeah, uh, is we?
I'm like, did you come out ofthe swamp?
Are you just really pussy?
I don't know what the story isbehind that particular zombie,

(27:38):
but very distinct makeup, uh.
And then so many other zombiefolks are going to be there
ralph langer, hermy uh, granati,ned johnstone, george demick,
mark tierno.
So, yeah, we can really chat itup with the zoms yeah real life
zoms from all three of theseries we'll be there to talk to
yeah, uh, it's boy, it's a lot.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, it's, it's a lot.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
But I mean this is going to be a special, a special
event that's the 40 yearanniversary yeah, it's going to
be really incredible and I haveto say I'm so inspired to draw
more zombie cartoons so I justdrew the hari krishna zombie
from dawn of the dead, whichwill be a limited edition
sticker that is going to be atour booth that you can get.
But now I'm like, oh my gosh,there were so many great ones in
this film.
There was theerina zombie,which looked like they were kind

(28:23):
of dance staggering.
There was a clown zombieHorrifying.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
The clown zombie was upsetting.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Wedding zombie and George Romero was a zombie with
a scarf.
Oh yeah, Look for him this time.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
You know the scarf look is a classic George Romero
look.
That's what he looks like inreal life.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
So George Romero as himself, as a zombie.
As a zombie, I mean, why not?
Yeah, he's iconic.
Let's get into the gore,because I don't normally like it
, but I have an appreciation forit in this movie.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah, um, I don't dislike gore, um, but it's, it's
not an important thing for me.
I know some people watch horrormovies like I love the gore, I
want to see gallons of blood andI'm okay with it.
Um, but it's, you know, I, Ilike having a good movie first,
so like when you have the day ofthe dead, which is excellent,
and you have excellent gore, itreally, uh, really it, you know,

(29:16):
just adds, adds points what'sincredible to me is that this is
all tom savini, starting fromnight of the living dead all the
way to day of the dead, likethe evolution of the makeup.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
I'm sure budget helped, yeah, uh.
But like from night of theliving dead all the way to day
of the dead, like the evolutionof the makeup.
I'm sure budget helped, yeah,uh.
But like even Donna, the dadversus day of the dad, light
years, yeah, more impressive.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, Like night of the living dead.
It's just like we're going tothrow some like bluish purple
makeup on them.
Yeah and like, uh, we'll throwa handful of flour at you so you
look dusty, and then in Dawn ofthe Dead, it's just like we're
going to paint you gray orpurple.
What really I found interestingabout Dawn of the Dead was

(29:55):
everybody's very vibrant andcolorful and well-crafted hair.
Like you'd see somebody withlike some really good hair, but
they're a zombie.
Good hair zombies, good hairzombies, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
There's also really great prosthetics, like Deborah
Gordon, zombie has really greatface prosthetics.
If you look at what DeborahGordon looks like versus a
zombie, would not know sameperson.
Terrifying and super disgusting, though.
A lot of them.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Also private Salazar, when he has his arm chopped off
and they cauterize it.
That's.
That's some prosthetic makeupas well.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Um, and it's upsetting.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
To put it in context, the makeup and the special
effects in the 1985 day of thedead versus the movie we just
reviewed, zoom bees, from 2016,doesn't make sense, because zoom
bees has how many years onscreen, like 30 years, 31 years,
yeah, at least, and it wasterrible.
This is, I feel, like themakeup could stand up.

(30:55):
Some of it could still stand upto today's oh yeah, special
effects, yeah, 40 years later.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
I mean incredible 80s , 80s, gore, makeup and special
effects is is almost timeless atwhen it's done, right?
Um, because it's all practicaland like yeah, it's, it's.
It's kind of like the last era,with the exception of the 90s,
of course, before visual effectsbecame digital or a combination

(31:20):
of practical and digital.
So everything that they did in1985 would stand up today and
does, because that's you know,look at the Walking Dead.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, yeah, you can see the signature of it, even
just the fact of, like the veryfirst, that's the first time
I've seen a zombie film havingan arm cut off to save someone
from becoming a zombie yeah, whohe dies anyways yeah, just
filling this with spoilers, butyou know, an unrelated way
unrelated.
Yes, also there's animatronicsyeah, yeah, the 80s loved

(31:52):
animatronics but they werereally good, like when that
guy's head was ripped off andhis mouth was still moving yeah,
I want to.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
I want to throw in an addition to the head ripping
off animatronic head um scene.
My favorite part of that sceneis, as the zombies are pulling,
it's also pulling the vocalcords with it as they're
dismembering the head and as theas he is screaming and making
noise, his voice becomes higherpitched as the vocal cord gets

(32:21):
stretched out.
I gotta re-watch for that, andit's I, I.
That's the one thing that I doremember from the first time
that I watched it, when I saw itand I was like whoa, that's
hilarious.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
It's definitely saying like same levels of gore
is what you'd see in walkingdead.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
It's pretty impressive the guts falling out
of people, so many guts andintestines which we've
established.
I don't love, but well done.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Direct quote from Leah I draw the line at guts.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
I do.
Intestines specifically,intestines, specifically.
Uh, people shot themselves inthe head.
There was a zombie whose headwas cut in half by a shovel.
There's never any cutaways,it's like a direct like this
head's been chopped in half theywant to show it off zombies are
ripping necks open with theirteeth.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
It is deep horror yeah, what I loved about the the
head uh, the the shovel headzombie is when, when the head is
cut off, you see all the layersand different um parts of like
the bone and cartilage of thehead is cut off.
You see all the layers anddifferent um parts of like the
bone and cartilage of the headas it's being pushed away on the
floor like that could have beencovered up.
They could have done it from adifferent angle.
They didn't have to do that,but they did it and it made it

(33:23):
so much better dan, I justrealized something utterly
terrifying.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
What actual special effects artists are going to see
?
My zombie crown maybe theymight love it.
Leah's leah's bringing a zombiecrown my face is melting off
and that's like scary.
That's like having somebodywho's a master something.
Look at your like amateur shit.
But anyways, my face isliterally getting red thinking
about it.
Now, okay, I hope they don'tsee it because I don't want to

(33:48):
have that conversation.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
I hope they do because I think I think they're
gonna look at it and love it.
They're gonna love how fuckedup and gross it is I don't know,
I'm not gross compared to whatthey've done leah has a mouth on
this crown, um, and it's, it'sa bunch of teeth and ripped off
lips that are just kind of likesmashed flat, and just you know,

(34:12):
I I thought it was good andthen you painted it and then I'm
like, oh my god, that is soupsetting I am.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
It brings me so much pleasure to upset people.
Now it's like a I understandwhy they do what they do.
It's just really weird to thinkthat somebody of that caliber
will see my silly little crown.
But wow, okay, I'm officiallygoing to be terrified that
entire weekend.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Let's get into the existential questions of the
movie, because there are manythere, there are, um, you know,
I never remembered this aboutthis movie, but there is this,
uh, this question of you know,science or higher power, and I
guess that exists in all themovies.
Um, now that I think about it,uh, but it's like the first time

(34:53):
that somebody actually likenames and says, yeah, well,
maybe it's just god doing thisand um, you know, I, I tend to
always look at the morescientific side of things, but
when, when john lays out, likeyou know, maybe this is just a
punishment from God, and notbecause you know we didn't

(35:16):
follow the Bible good enough,but because you know we're down
here just killing each other,we're tearing apart the, the,
the earth.
Um, we, we've invented bombs.
It'll blow a hole in the sky,uh, and maybe he's just like the
sky, uh, and maybe he's justlike, yeah, I gotta, I gotta
shut you guys down.

(35:36):
And I felt like it was asreasonable an explanation as
anything else in any zombiemovie.
It's like, okay, all right,you've converted me.
I, I believe it's.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
I believe now, it's a higher power that's pissed off
at us I mean, that is always anexistential question of humanity
, right, like, why do thingshappen?
Why do bad things happen?
Specifically, um, pulling on myanthropologist hat for a moment
, that is like every culture hasan answer to that question.
Why do bad things happen?
Sometimes the answer is it'srandom, right, like that's the

(36:03):
atheist answer.
What I really loved about John,the Jamaican helicopter pilot
in the movie is that he does saylike maybe it's a punishment
for God, but like also, there'sno sense in trying to understand
it.
I really appreciated that, andhe was like let's just have a
good time and he actually haslike a whole room set up that
looks kind of like he's on thebeach in Jamaica.
Yeah, to get away from it.
Yeah, go get drunk.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, saying something about like um, trying
to understand why this happened,is like trying to understand
why the stars are where they are.
Yes, um, some things.
This, this isn't.
This isn't for humans to know.
This is our purpose is not toknow these things meanwhile,
there are astronomers whoseentire purpose is to know those
things.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
But I've always found that, like I think you're more
on the science side, I'm alittle bit more on the woo side.
I feel like there's always apoint where, if you keep asking
the question, why to the answer?
There's a point where you justcan't answer anymore.
Yeah, and that's that, likewondrousness, that is the
universe.
But the scientists, on theother hand, like I feel like
scientists in this movie reallywant to control it.

(37:09):
They want to figure out how tomake specifically Frankenstein,
dr Logan.
He wants to figure out how tocontrol them and make them like
pets or slaves, basically, andthen Sarah just wants to know
what the cause is so that shecan stop it.
But either way, I think sciencesometimes is very obsessed with
control and trying to shapethings, and I think I align a

(37:29):
little bit more with John'sperspective of just like, let it
be what it is and enjoy yourlife, even if it's in the midst
of a zombie apocalypse yeah, I Ikind of vibed with it.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
I was like, yeah, maybe, maybe you should just
focus on enjoying the rest ofyour life.
He literally says like, likeyou know, there's always
something to do around here.
Um, and we could just get in ahelicopter right now, fly off to
an island and just live out theremaining number of our short
existence, uh, relaxing on thebeach which he does at the end

(38:03):
of the movie yeah, spoiler.
They relax on the beach they do.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
it reminds me of um naela king, our friend of the
show, also a writer.
Uh when, when she was on theZombie Wayne game show last year
, a lot of her jokes were justlike yeah, it's the apocalypse,
let's just have fun and die.
Yeah, that was her attitude too.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
So I feel like she would appreciate John.
She's not here for a long time.
She's here for a good time.
Society breaks down Leah.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
That is one of the main themes of pretty much every
apocalypse yeah story.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
I think they did a really good job of showing that
like as an interpersonal story,like not only was it the clash
between the military and thescientists, but you also saw the
soldiers just kind of liketumble out of a door just
beating the shit out of eachother because they got into a
fight.
They're just fighting in thehallways and you can see that

(38:58):
they're just they're fallingapart too, like everybody is
falling apart in their ownspecial way.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, it is very much like at the individual
experience and, like you said,interpersonal.
And what it makes me wonder alittle bit about is that
Frankenstein keeps talking aboutcivility and he says, when he's
talking about Bob is thatcivility is what distinguishes
humans from animals, or humansfrom zombies in this case.
But as he was saying that, Iwas thinking like you're not

(39:24):
very civil, dr Frankenstein.
You're literally choppingpeople up and you're you're the
one who's saying that they havesome humanity inside of them,
but you think it's okay toliterally tie them down and pull
them apart.
And I think as much as Bubloved Frankenstein because
Frankenstein did nice things forhim, like give him books and
guns yeah, he loves those things.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
And helped him listen to some music.
I don't know if Bub would havefelt that way about him if he'd
gone into the room and seen allof the or was he in the room?
Could he see what he was doing?

Speaker 2 (39:59):
no, he there was a, a one-way mirror, yeah, so he
could only see himself, andthere's even a moment where bub
recognizes himself in the mirroryeah, which is a sentience test
going on in there yeah, but hehad no idea what dr logan, aka
frankenstein, was doing on theother side of that wall yeah,
yeah, he didn't know.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah, I don't think he would have liked it at all.
I think he would have beenupset yeah, I don't think that.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
uh, science, science can, if civility is what makes
humans human.
First of all, I don't know if Ibuy that argument, but secondly
, science and the way sciencehas been done has been very
uncivil, if that's's a word, fora long time.
There is this sense in the filmthat made me think a lot about
just human subjects, researchand why we have really stringent

(40:40):
laws around what we're supposedto do and how we're supposed to
do it.
Even if you want to interviewsomebody for a survey to learn
about their knowledge onsomething as part of a study at
a university, it has to gothrough the institutional review
board.
You have to be able to provethat you have informed consent
that they're not a vulnerablepopulation.
The zombies Bub is clearlyvulnerable.
All of the zombies arevulnerable because they're not

(41:01):
working at full human capacity,but they're also proving Bub
proves that they have somethingin them that is still human, and
so I think it's pretty barbaricwhat's been done in the name of
science.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, I think it's pretty barbaric what's been done
in the name of science.
Yeah, I'm sure all of the Naziscientists during World War II
thought that they were verycivilized.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Yeah, he also says something that really stood out
for me, which is that to havecivility, it has to be rewarded,
and so that's why he was sofocused on giving Bub things as
rewards to build a relationshipwith him, and it made me wonder
is like is that true?
And is that why we were seeingall of the soldiers losing their
shit Because there was no morereward?

(41:39):
They joked about like this wastheir job, they're getting paid,
and they're like wait, no,we're not getting paid.
Yeah.
They don't get paid Like there'sno incentive to them anymore to
continue to do quote, unquotethe good thing or the civil
thing and really the barbarismwas the only thing that kept
them in line.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Uh, captain rhodes, you know, exerting his dominance
and his willingness to usecorporal punishment was really
the only thing that kept themfollowing his orders, I assume.
Anyway, I would have liked tosee.
If there's one thing that Ididn't like about this movie is
that I wish it was six hourslonger.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
So a miniseries, yeah .
I mean, it could come back aslike a rebooted miniseries yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
I feel like I saw, like in searching where we could
watch this online, I feel likeI saw something that was a
series on one of the streamingplatforms that was called Day of
the Dead.
But also people have co-optedthe title of the day of the dead
so many times, like there's aright after dawn of the dead,

(42:40):
the remake.
In 2004, in 2005 or 2006, theymade a movie, uh, called day of
the dead.
Um, and then there's like sometagline, something else, um,
let's just call it reanimationor something, something stupid
like that.
I don't know what it was.
It was not a reboot of day ofthe dead, it was somebody making

(43:03):
a zombie movie and thehilarious thing is that, um, in
dawn of the dead 2004, vingrames is in that movie.
So they called up ving ramesand they're like do you want to
be in day of the dead?
And he said, yeah, I'm on board.
Oh, no, and uh, they got vingrames, they got nick cannon to
be in this fucking terriblemovie that they thought was the

(43:27):
sequel to 2004's dawn of thedead.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Oh, that's tragic yeah, so they signed on before
they saw the script.
There's a lesson there.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Well, they might have seen the script, but it was not
written by George Romero oranybody involved with these
movies.
And because of the nature ofthe Night of the Living Dead and
how it became kind of like opensource, because of George
Romero's original screw-up withthe copyright of Night of the
Living Dead, the whole of thedead or living dead could just

(43:59):
be used by anyone, and it is.
There's so many Day of the Deadmovies now.
There's Day of the Dead 2.
There's Day of the Dead 3.
None of them are made by GeorgeRomero.
There's also Dio de los Muertos,the day of the dead, yeah, like
the actual holiday, yeah youknow, I think back to what I

(44:19):
originally watched this movieway back in the limewire days
and, uh, and I was at my worstwhen it comes to pts.
I was undiagnosed.
I was fresh back fromAfghanistan and several other
places Kind of back-to-backhellholes that I decided to deal

(44:44):
with by becoming a day drinkerand watching zombie movies on
the internet, among other things.
Uh, driving really fast cars um, was also a thing.
That riding riding the razorthin line between life and death
was was how I lived my lifeback then.

(45:05):
Um, and I feel like I was blindto all of the examples of
post-traumatic stress disorderin this movie.
I don't know if they did deep,deep research into PTSD.
This was 1985.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
I don't even know if the term PTSD had been coined,
yet it was probably still calledshell shock.
Yeah, like what my uncle hadfrom World War II.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Yeah, like what my uncle had from World War II
there.
Um, miguel salazar uh, we seehis right away in the opening
scene where they are in downtownmiami and they're trying to
find survivors and he seeszombies and he fucking bolts, he
runs away.
He just runs back to thehelicopter right and he, he
freezes up under stress.
Um, he's lashing out like like,uh, he has an argument with
sarah, his girlfriend, and heslaps the shit out of her and

(46:17):
honestly, I thought she wasgonna knock him out no, she just
hugged him and then drugged him.
She shot some sedative into hisback with the he slapped her and
then like cried into hershoulder and then she sedated
him because he was not sleeping,he was lashing out, he was not
making good, good decisions, notmaking good sense.
He was making a lot of reallybad mistakes.

(46:39):
Because of his uh, because ofhis disorder.
He was not functioning in anycapacity throughout the entirety
of the movie, um, except maybeat the very end, when he does a
fucking crazy thing bysacrificing himself to make sure
that everybody else dies.
That was the only time that heactually functioned well, under

(47:03):
stress, that's really sad, butuh, he sacrificed himself for
others yeah umall of the All of the soldiers
have really, really, really darkhumor.
That would probably beconsidered actual verbal assault
in today's society.
If you said any of the thingsthat these soldiers said, you

(47:25):
probably would lose your jobthat day.
If you said these things atwork, if you said these things
while being a soldier in themilitary, you would find
yourself with a lot of extraduty and probably have an entire
month of paychecks taken awayfrom you.
That's scary and rank takenaway from you, uh, which

(47:48):
actually that reminds me ofsomething that I thought was
interesting about PrivateSteel's character.
He is an E2 private.
He has one rafter on hisshoulder, one upside down V
right, oh, I didn't know, that'swhat that meant.
So he's an E2.
One promotion from E1, or wecall E0 or E nothing, because

(48:09):
you don't have a rank tag whenyou're E1.
But he looks like he's like 44years old and when you see
somebody in the army who's thatlow ranked and that old, that
usually means that they didsomething to get there.
They got demoted Like somebody.
His age should probably be likea sergeant first class, a first

(48:32):
sergeant, maybe even a commandsergeant, major, but to be a
private means you done fucked upbig time before the collapse of
society because he had to bedemoted um by somebody official
in the military you know youdon't need a zombie apocalypse
to have ptsd.

(48:53):
It's true, you may have alreadyhad some um captain rhodes is
committed to his homicidalenforcement of his own uh, his
own authority and he is dead seton taking control over this
scientific um experiment.
He is the scariest person he'sway, scarier than any zombie in
the entire dead set on takingcontrol over this scientific

(49:14):
experiment.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
He is the scariest person.
He's way scarier than anyzombie in the entire film,
because he just you don't knowwhat he's going to do.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
He don't know what he's going to do and he has
power.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
And you get the impression that when the major
was in charge before him, thatthere it was more of a
collaborative experience, likesomething that I experienced in
the army was, after getting outI came back as a civilian
contractor and worked alongsideof soldiers, kind of separate
from their chain of command butworking with them.

(49:43):
And in this case I think that'show it should have been, where
the people who are thescientists, they control their
experiments, their conditions,they have their mission and they
do, they stick to their mission, whereas the military is there
for support.
But Captain Rhodes doesn't seeit that way and he's willing to
blow anyone's head off whodisagrees with him.

(50:04):
Quite literally Sarah, the maincharacter we see immediately,
like before we even see openingcredits.
We see Sarah's nightmares whereshe is trapped in a cinder
block room with a calendar.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
And when she approaches the calendar and she
looks at it, zombie hands cometearing through the wall at her.
Or when she has sedated her,her lover salazar, and he's
still asleep, and she, she andshe falls asleep and she sees
him roll over on his bed and allof his guts spill out, only to
realize like, oh, I'm waking upnow and he's fine, he's just in
the corner on the bed.
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot ofalcoholism yeah, bill's
alcoholism.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Sure, which one's Bill again.
Radio operator Right.
Alcoholic radio operator Right.
He's an obvious example of thatalcoholism, but I think he's
coping with alcohol, whereas thesoldiers are drinking
excessively and just going offthe rails.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
It's interesting you would distinguish those two
things.
Yeah, well, that's so basicallyfunctioning versus
non-functioning alcohol abuseyeah, I was, uh, I was a
functioning alcohol abuser.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
You know uh, when, when it was time to get things
done, I was sober, uh, when itwasn't, I also wasn't now, you
never drink yeah, you know I uh,that's a time long since passed
and I am better for it.
Um, dr logan has completelylost his grip on reality and his

(51:46):
mental facilities are clearlydeclining as a result of that I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
I feel like he came into his own and was like yes, I
can dismember people withoutany consequence, I can feed the
body parts of recently deceasedsoldiers to the zombie as a
reward for being a good bub.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
I would say that that's probably mental decline.
I mean, you never know.
But agree to disagree.
John flyboy helicopter pilot isfine.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Yeah, he's the most hinged.
All of his hinges are stillattached.
Yeah, and I did look it upbriefly PTSD became a medical
diagnosis in 1980, so it'sentirely reasonable that this
was actually part of theconscious thinking around the
film and what the themes of thefilm were.
To recap the themes here Ithink what's interesting about
George Romero films and thezombie genre in general is it's

(52:36):
not like they're reinventing newthemes to think about.
These are basic experiences ofhumanity trauma, societal
breakdown.
I mean, we're living throughone right now.
It seems to happen every fewgenerations in some way.
What does it mean to be human,like who's human and who's not
human?
These are questions we'reasking ourselves all the time,
and I think that's why thisgenre is so compelling.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Yeah, I, I also love the way that george romero
approaches storytelling because,um, you know, I, I, I like to
say that it's never about theplot.
Um, when you're, when you'rewriting, the plot doesn't really
matter.
Um, I guess it depends on whatyou're writing.
But george romero, like, if youlook at a george romero movie,

(53:21):
uh, okay, um, people are chasedby zombies.
They go to a farmhouse.
They have to not let thezombies in the farmhouse.
That's the movie, that's theplot, that's everything.
Zombies, zombies came back,board up the windows, that's it.
But the layers and layers ofcharacter development and
exploration of themes withinthat are so deep and fascinating

(53:45):
and that's what the story isabout.
And every single movie is likethat.
And it seems like every singlemovie, like, takes it up a few
notches I agree this is the bestone, in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Before we get into the depressing things around
racism, sexism, capitalism,misogyny and ableism, let's talk
just briefly about some funthings we haven't talked about
yet, like what we loved, what wehated.
Okay, uh, the captain, captainrhodes a lot of things against
him.
Don't't like him?
Amazing hair His hair isfantastic.
It's perfect For all the waysthat he is unhinged.
His hair is always perfectlycoiffed.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Yeah, it's almost an accent to his unhingedness.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Yes, it's a contrast.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Because it kind of sweeps to the side.
Yeah, you get the impressionthat he didn't comb it that way.
It happened when his headsnapped to the side while he was
glaring at somebody thinkingabout whether he was going to
shoot them or not.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
I feel like you could .
You could rock his haircut yeahI think it's worth giving it a
try, having the uh captainrhodes coif yeah, I'm gonna.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
I'm gonna get the captain rhodes.
I'm gonna go to a hairstylistand say, give me the captain
rhodes they're to think you'retalking about some sort of like
sea captain.
I'll come out with a tricornerhat made of hair.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Other things.
I loved the zombie feast sceneat the end where they're all
just getting their vengeance andeating delicious, delicious
dead military dudes.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
The so the shitty military dudes being torn apart
because they were so shitty andhorrible and they just make you
detest them in every possibleway.
They're sexist, they're racist,they're loud, obnoxious,
they're dangerous.
They're unqualified to do theirfucking jobs.

(55:30):
They're alcoholics unqualifiedto do their fucking jobs.
They're alcoholics, and whenthe zombies get their hands on
them and they draw out theirdeaths in the most painful and
terrifying way possible, itfeels good it does, yes, like
rip that private in half whilehe's still alive.

(55:53):
He goes down screaming to ahorde of zombies, while Bub is
shooting him in the stomach.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
It's really interesting because usually in
zombie films, right, you'rerooting for the people.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
And you're like, yeah , kill that zombie, but they
definitely flip the script onwho you have empathy for in this
film.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
And you're like, yes, the zombies deserve their
vengeance that is so true and Idon't know if I realized that
when I was watching it.
It's just like I don't knowwhat at what point I was rooting
for the zombies it was instant.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
they did a really good job.
This film of, just like I thinkit was seeing, um, it was
seeing deborah and the othercharacter zombie that was
chained up and then lookingafraid and trying to pull the
chains off, and that sense oftheir captivity was instantly
where I felt just started tofeel that like, oh no, I feel
bad for the zombies.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Yeah, so they establish it early in my view,
and of course, bob takes it home.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Bob deserved an Academy Award for his acting
Truly.
Maybe he got one.
We should look into that, weshould, and also, if he didn't,
then we can.
Maybe I can make him a littleclay award and be like here's my
best zombie award.
Yeah, it says academy thezombie book club academy award.
There were only two things welisted as hating, yeah one of

(57:10):
them was that it's not six hourslong.
Yeah, there really was so muchmore that could be told.
Yeah, uh, the the other one wasthe hard cuts in the same scene
.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Yeah, it was interesting like it was, like it
was almost edited to be on tvand have commercial breaks.
Like it was like the.
It was a hard cut, but it wasalso like a fade to black and
then back to the scene yeah umwe could ask the cinematographer
about it yeah, I wonder if thecinematographer would know.
I feel like that's more of anediting thing, but I mean, too

(57:40):
bad, george romero isn't aroundbecause I feel like this is a
great question because, uh, youknow, 1985, like vcrs had just
been invented and the idea ofwatching movies at home is still
kind of a new idea.
Like most people would go totheaters or, um, you know, would
have a rich friend that wouldhave a film projector and a

(58:02):
collection of of of films in alibrary, um, and those were your
options, um, and the other onewas to watch it on tv.
And there were channels that,especially on the weekends or
Friday nights and Saturdaynights, would do horror or
monster movie marathons.

(58:23):
Is because, when George Romeroscrewed up the copyright issue
on Night of the Living Dead,immediately these TV stations
that were running these horrormovie marathons were like holy
shit, there's a brand new moviethat just came out and we can

(58:44):
play it for free.
And they got their hands allover it.
And while he didn't make anymoney from that movie because of
what happened, he definitelygot a lot of eyes on his movie
because of it.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Well, because we have the internet.
Dan, I hate to tell you thatyour theory is wrong.
Fuck, but I hope everybodylistening followed along and was
like, yeah, this makes totalsense.
No, that's not what happened.
Okay, romero refused to cut theextreme gore, meaning it was an
unrated film.
Romero refused to cut theextreme gore meaning it was an
unrated film.
They wanted it to be.
They meaning the people who putit on the TV and in theaters
wanted it to get to an R rating,but the level of gore would not

(59:19):
allow for that, so manytheaters just wouldn't show it.
It had a smaller theatrical runthan it was supposed to,
compared to Dawn of the Dead,and so it just developed this
cult following over time fromhome video and then later it was
cut for for tv, but a lot ofthat gore was pulled out, so we
no longer have a goodexplanation for these cuts I'm
sticking with what I said oh,you sound like somebody.

(59:42):
Oh, what was that in our lastepisode recorded?
Um, you sound like you're kindof having some zombieism where
you decide something's true,even though all evidence points
to the former that it's not.
Or the fire, I should say no,that sounds like something else.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
Um, here's one more thing I wanted to throw in, and
it's kind of something that Ihated, but also it's.
It's a, it's a story choice.
Um, complete lack of firearmdiscipline from the soldiers.
They, they, they fire from thehip, they don't aim, they're
just rapid firing, shootingzombies in the stomach.

(01:00:17):
And that can happen if youpanic.
Well, they seem pretty panicked,yeah, but soldiers would be
trained to at least bring theirrifle up to their shoulder, and
that bothered me, that everybodywas firing from the hip.
But it was also the 80s andthat was the cool thing to do
back then.
Um, and it's something that Iforgive because, uh, it moves

(01:00:38):
the story along that these, um,absolute imbecile, incompetent
soldiers that are all that'sleft of the military, um, just
are just a complete group ofcompletely undisciplined people
who have very poor skills.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
I mean, maybe they had poor skills even in the army
, who knows?

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
I think that's the story that we're being told,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
By their inability to take out zombies.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
It's time for my favorite segment.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
You mean the racist, sexist, ableist, misogynistic,
of the living dead?
Misogyny.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Yes, of the living dead, misogyny yes of the living
dead correct, I screwed it upum there, this is your favorite,
huh it is my favorite, but it'smy favorite with Romero films
because it's clearly commentaryand not just fucking
thoughtlessness or living intoum some of the problematic
aspects of our culture, ourwestern culture, without any

(01:01:33):
examination.
Um, first of all, maincharacter female lead white
female lead, sarah uh, isclearly not just surviving the
zombie apocalypse.
If anything, she is surviving abunker full of very fragile
male egos.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Yeah, definitely um, and it's even brought up that
you, that she needs to becareful around there because
things could happen.
They voice their willingness todo terrible things.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Yeah, insert terrible things that are often done to
women.
Yeah, there, constantly shejust lives under that threat and
John says to her at one pointyou need to take care of your
body, you need to be verycareful around these men, you
cannot trust them.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
She reassures him and says that she can take care of
herself.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Yeah, which we believe, because she's one of
the most competent people there.
If not the most competent Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
One thing that I love , a quote that I love from this
steel uh, private steel.
When they're grabbing the cavezombies, um, and he's using his
wing wing to lure in zombies, orat least suggesting that he
might.
Um, he starts bragging abouthow he has the quote biggest
meat in the cave, um, and theymake some comments towards sarah

(01:02:50):
that are pretty disgustingabout how much she'd like his
meat basically yeah, it involveshis meat, yeah, uh, she says
quote uh, you're incapable ofexciting me steel, except as an
anthropological curiosity.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Yeah, yeah, her ability to not only keep her
cool but have humor in the faceof pretty intense misogyny is
impressive.
I would probably I would loseit, I would yell, I'd want to
punch them, I would not keep mycool in the way Sarah keeps her
cool in this situation.
She is very even keeled in acrisis situation.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Yeah, she's constantly undermined, yeah,
despite the fact that she's themost rational, most qualified
person in the room.
She's qualified in so many ways, not just as a scientist, as we
see, but also as a conflictmediator, and also she's way

(01:03:48):
more competent at blastingzombies than any of the soldiers
.
The untrained scientist betterBecause she aims.
The untrained scientist better,yeah, because she aims.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
It's really frustrating to watch, because
I've experienced this myself assomebody with a vulva.
It is really frustrating towatch, or really like listen to
Dr Logan, aka Frankenstein,who's clearly losing it, covered
in fucking blood, chopping upzombies without thought, and
every time she has a suggestionor a push back or anything, they

(01:04:19):
make comments about her body,they make comments about
assaulting her, they makecomments about how she's stupid
and she's just a woman.
They shouldn't listen to herand it's really clear that, like
the older man who's the doctor,has respect where she doesn't,
and that's super frustrating.
Yeah, I've been in those roomswhere I will have an idea and I
will say the thing, and then mymale colleague will say the same
things if I never said it, andsuddenly everybody thinks it's a

(01:04:42):
great idea.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
And I'm sure this is like a like, a direct uh, like
directly from like the world ofacademia, like, um, you know,
the, the, the older male doctor,is the one that's always going
to be the one that they listento.
To be fair, when Dr Loganspeaks, he speaks in a way that
makes you want to listen.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
But so does she.
She says hey, we could actuallycollaborate here.
We could work together tofigure this out.
We don't have to be at odds andeverybody's like no, I would
rather sexually assault you thanlisten to a woman.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
That is true, um dr logan.
When he's, when he's talking toum captain rhodes, specifically
, captain rhodes despises drlogan because dr logan talks
circles around him.
Because, uh, because captainrhodes is constantly threatening
to leave, he's like we shouldjust leave.
Then what the fuck are yougoing to do?
And he's, and he's he justshould just leave.
Then what the fuck are yougoing to do?
And he's, and he's, he justsimply is like but where would

(01:05:41):
you go?
And he doesn't have an answerfor that.
And then he'll fly off onanother tangent and he's like
and again I will ask you wherewould you go?
yeah and it enrages him and thathe listens.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
He doesn't point a gun at him when he's enraged.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
Yeah, dr logan showed up late.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
It's fine, it's fine sarah gets up to leave not for
murder, yeah uh, she also defiesthat, like trope of a lot of
these slasher movies, of beinghypersexualized.
She's not, she's just wearingher daily outfits.
Yeah, she's not saved by a man.
She collaborates with menbecause, honestly, that's all
she's got other than zombies.

(01:06:20):
Um, she's not freaking out andpanicking all the time.
Compared to everybody else, sheis the smartest, steadiest and
strategic person there, otherthan john in my view, and so I
really just appreciated her rolein an 80s horror film being so
thought out yeah, um, defyingthat final girl trope.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Also, she wasn't the final girl, she was the final
one of the three.
Yeah, who was the only girl?

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
yeah, because she was the only one the whole time and
I might have had a problem withthat, except for the message
that was clearly there aboutwhat it's like to be a woman in
a male-dominated industry orworld.
Yeah, um, and it felt very realjust adding zombies on top
romero is is is always tellingthese these types of stories.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
I don't think he did it as well in night of the
living dead, because barbara wasjust kind of a fucking mess
well, he's clearly evolved inhis own thinking.
That was almost 20 years ago,when he yeah it's just
interesting because like this is, you know, 1978, uh, dawn of
the dead.
1985, land of the dead.
Um, these are times when it'sit's like the dark ages for men

(01:07:26):
understanding how women feel itstill is yeah in a lot of cases,
unfortunately and it speaks tothe quality of the character of
george romero.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
I bet he was a cool guy yeah, I hope he was a good
dad, tina.
I hope he was a good dad to you.
I hope his apparent feminismshowed up in his personal life
as much as it did in his films.
Um, racism very clearly had acenter stage in this film, as
the again you've mentioned.
It does in all of romero'sfilms.
Uh, I think this is the firsttime we see overt racism towards

(01:07:56):
a latino man.
Yeah, uh, private miguelsalazar, sarah's suicidal lover,
in the same way that she isconstantly being berated for
being a woman, basically, andunder attack he is for being
hispanic.
They use racist slursconstantly.
They were shocking to hear, uh,things I've not heard.
I don't know ever said out louduh, people mock his accent,
they reduce him to stereotypesall the time.

(01:08:17):
I don't know ever said out loudPeople mock his accent, they
reduce him to stereotypes allthe time.
They don't really see him as agood guy with them.
He's an outsider simply becausehe has a different skin tone
and an accent.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Yeah, he's not one of them.
Even though he is a soldier andshould be a part of them.
He's not treated that way.
One thing that I found reallyinteresting is that Captain
Rhodes himself does not join inwith the Hispanic slurs.
He kind of stays quiet whilehis men are saying those things.
He doesn't correct them, but hedoesn't join in with it.

(01:08:49):
The only time that he joins inwith the overt racism is when
he's talking to John and saysovertly racist things to him
about being black yeah so it'slike they're different flavors
of racists I mean, it'sbasically the white guys club,
right?

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
everybody who's not in the white guys club is going
to be under threat.
Yeah, in this bunker.
I also really want to give ashout out to george romero for a
clear um lens of pushing backagainst anti-blackness, which
was pretty common in the era andstill is to this day.
John is, first of all, he'sJamaican, he speaks with a

(01:09:25):
Caribbean accent and he has avery like, rare and layered
sense of personality that youwould not see in a lot of 1980s
films.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Typically, you're looking at like they're the
funny guy, right're looking atlike they're the funny guy,
right, yeah, or they're thescary guy yeah, or like the
comic relief, or like the theaction hero yeah, like the the,
the, the muscular guy that um isthe sidekick to the cool white
guy, john is the wise outsider,so he has a calm, spiritual and

(01:09:59):
philosophic demeanor to him.
I actually really loved themonologue that he had with Sarah
in his little tropical islandparadise that he set up in the
cave.
Yeah, because I loveconversations like that, where
it just comes out of nowhere andit just becomes deep and
philosophical and he'scriticizing all the ways that

(01:10:24):
society has just been recordingdata about all kinds of things.
He mentions that there'srecords for immigration, records
for taxes.
Natural disasters, and that'swhat they're storing down there
in the caves.
They think that that's importantand at the end his thing is

(01:10:45):
like we should get out of here,restart society, repopulate the
earth and teach them to nevercome back to these caves and
look up any of this information.
And I vibe with that.
Um, he's, he's always, he,always.
He's critiquing these thingsthat are so normal in our

(01:11:06):
society that we think are soimportant.
Um, but really it's, it's justcosting us time, and when
they're down in the bunker, allthey have left is time.
So every moment that they'respending not living anymore, um
is wasted time and that's theonly thing that they have left.
So like, why, why should they?

(01:11:29):
Why should they be doing any ofthis?
He doesn't believe in themission, he just flies the
helicopter, which I?
I feel like that's my role as adump truck driver.
I don't believe in repairingthe roads, I just drive the
truck, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
He also says he's very aware of his position with
Captain Rhodes versus others.
Even though Captain Rhodes doessay something racist towards
him.
He knows that, because he's theonly person who can fly the
helicopter, that he has aposition of power.
I also think that's why he isnot, as, um, overtly racially
discriminated against, yeah, assalazar is throughout the entire
film, because he does have thisposition of power, uh, in the

(01:12:07):
context of also being a blackman yeah, he's the only one that
can fly them out of there.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
He's the only, really .
He says that um, alcoholicradio operator and, like Rhodes,
doesn't understand electronics,so he needs alcoholic radio
operator.
Yeah, he can't fly thehelicopter, so he needs John and
he needs Dr Logan, because DrLogan can think circles around
him, but everybody else needs tobe watching their back because

(01:12:37):
they are expendable to him.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Yeah, it's a really good example of how you can be
somebody who is discriminatedagainst, in his case for being a
black man.
But if you have some level ofposition of power, it shifts the
dynamic a little bit and Ithink that's probably what
pisses Rhodes off the most.
Yeah, definitely, towards theend, it's realizing that he's
fucked.
He can't just discriminateagainst this man.
He has to do what he says,otherwise he can't get out.

(01:13:00):
Yeah, um, but what's greatabout his character is that he's
not the comic relief, he's nota sidekick to a white lead,
although I mean, he's sort ofhe's not the main character.
I would say, yeah, um, but Iwouldn't call him a sidekick.
And he's not hyper masculineaction guy without a brain yeah,
but there are still some tropeswith him, like this mystic
islander stereotype, that's true, that I've seen, and like you

(01:13:24):
know, he's I mean, he's thechilled jamaican, you know,
don't worry, what's that song bybob marley?
Every little thing is gonna beall right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
I thought you're gonna say don't worry, be happy
yeah, don't worry um yeah, andyou know I don't you know?
it's 1985 and tropes exist umyeah yeah I don't, I don't know
where we were at in 1985 aroundstuff like this, but it, like it
definitely is, is that is thattrope right?

(01:13:56):
Like if, if, if, the if, ifthey cast a different person in
that is that trope where, likeif, if, if, the if, if they cast
a different person in that roleand that person was a native
American who could fly ahelicopter, it would have been a
whole different set of ofstereotypes.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Yes, also probably a wise man stereotype.
Yeah, but regardless, for theeighties I think he did a really
great job.
And also he didn't die.
He wasn't one of the firstpeople to die.
It's great, it's a win.
We have to talk about ableism inthis movie and this was what
really stood out for me watchingthis film, and I don't even
know if I would love to know ifGeorge Romero was thinking about

(01:14:31):
it in this way, because I thinkableism and disability, justice
and thinking about people withdisabilities as equals with
human rights is actually stillpretty pretty far behind, as in
humanity with this one.
So I think it's there, even ifhe didn't have the language for
it in 1985.
But Bub, I think, is a metaphorof a disabled person,
particularly somebody withintellectual disabilities.

(01:14:53):
Yeah, intellectual disabilities, yeah, uh, because to the
scientist, to, to frankenstein,he's still really only useful to
society if he can make him dosomething for him.
Yeah, bub just can't be bub outthere in the world.
If he's just, if he's justbubbing along being a zombie,
he's gonna get chopped up likethe rest of them yeah, and he
almost did, but he provedhimself to be special yeah, he's

(01:15:15):
a zombie who has memory,learning emotions, uh.
But even knowing all of that, drlogan still treats him like a
subject, like a thing that hecan act his will upon, not a
person.
And it's because he has thishe's not quite, uh, as
intellectual as sarah, maybe, asan example yeah, yeah and
everybody else sees bub asdangerous or laughable, even

(01:15:36):
when he tries to connect withthem.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
Yeah, they almost think it's a joke Like this is a
parlor trick.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
Until he picks up a gun.
And then Captain Rhodes is veryupset, right, because now Bob
is threatening to take his jobaway.
It was all fun and games whenhe was answering telephones, but
as soon as he proved himself asa, as a marksman, yeah, I just
think like, what is it?

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
what does it require?
What does a human require, like?
What do they have to have forus to actually think of them as
people?
And pub pub bub has emotions,he cares, he has the ability to
learn, he has self-recognition,which, as I said earlier, is one
of the key sentient tests.
Like there's a moment where hesees himself in the mirror, but

(01:16:23):
to everybody around him he's nothuman enough and so he's not
deserving right.
People assume that he isincapable and less intelligent
and less worthy, that he's justa threat because he's not
predictable and he's not goingto do things the way that they
expect him to.
He's only valuable if he doeswhat Dr Logan tells him to do or
when he acts quote unquotenormal.
He's infantilized andexperimented on.

(01:16:46):
He's not seen as a fullyautonomous being with the right
to make his own choices, andcertainly in recent history
that's how disabled people havebeen treated in all of these
ways.
And his emotions are dismissedor feared by most people, except
for Dr Logan, and he only takesthem seriously from the point
of view of I will give Bubbrewards so I can make Bubb my

(01:17:08):
pet to do act my will upon him,not as this person who deserves
his own rights.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
He's a project, he's a thing to be improved.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Which is the saddest part, because he, bub, does get
emotionally attached to Dr Logan, but Dr Logan is an emotional
manipulator, yeah, who doesn'tactually care about Bub.
I feel like a just true justicefor Bub would have been like
building a relationship withSarah.
It could have been a Gooniesmoment moment.
Yeah, you know where Bub getsto go to the island with
everybody else too.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
Oh, that would have been so nice.
It would have Bub deserved that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
Sarah, john fuck, I can't remember his name radio
operator.
And Bub yeah, they all justchill on the beach and Bub's
just like just having a goodtime.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
But if you think about what disability is, it's
pretty much, in our society,defined by your ability to
produce for capitalism.
If you can't be a good workerbee and also be quote unquote
normal and the way people expectyou to be, so you go.
You go to your job, you do yourlittle things in the way that
you're expected to do them, likean automaton, and you make
money for people and for thepeople who need to make money

(01:18:12):
off of you, then you'reconsidered disabled.
That's basically whatdisability is in our culture,
and so I really feel like Bubepitomizes that.
That it's clear if you watchhim.
I mean, how can you not loveBub?
But society does not love Bub.
Society sort of symbolically,as Dr Logan only sees Bub's
value if he can use him in someway.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
Well, you know what?
Now I can add to the list ofpeople that I've been in this
movie to also bub, Really.
Yeah, I mean, there's my.
My value has always been placedon whether or not I'm capable
of doing work that generatesmoney, Um, which is you know why
I'm a truck driver now, is itfeels like the only thing that I

(01:18:54):
can manage.
Uh, I can't.
I can't work at a store.
I tried doing that.
I can't call people on thephone.
I can't deal with people.
I can't do those things as work, and almost every job requires
you to interact with humanbeings in exchange for money,
and it's that is not a thingthat I'm capable of doing on a

(01:19:15):
daily basis.
I can.
I can amp myself up if I have afew weeks to prepare.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
And for Living Dead weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
And only need to spend a few days, or maybe even
just a few hours, proving topeople that I'm a normal human
being.
But I cannot do it every day.
I need to be locked inside of asmall cubicle where no one can
talk to me.
Ie a dump truck and that's.
That is my.

(01:19:44):
My last line of employment that, I feel, is I'm capable of.
I'm bub.
You could put bub in a dumptruck.
Bub could do my job.
You're being I mean, dogs havebeen taught to drive, yeah, and
get licenses, I think in austdump truck bub could do my job.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
You're being I mean, dogs have been taught to drive,
yeah, and get licenses, I thinkin australia bub could
absolutely drive a dump.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
In fact, I'm pretty sure I work with bub.

Speaker 2 (01:20:04):
I I think that you're not wrong, dan, like it's um,
and you're rewarded right forthose behaviors yeah and if
you're not, if you don'tassimilate, if you don't live
exactly how you're supposed tobe?
and why do people who areneurodivergent mask?
They mask because if they actin accordance with who they are
and the way that their brainworks, they're ostracized.

(01:20:26):
And they're ostracized becausethey're not seen as being
productive or fitting in well orlike doing the thing that
they're supposed to do to makesociety run, and I think that's
dehumanizing.
I think Bub is an example ofthe dehumanization of disabled
people, so it's neat that yousee yourself in him, but also
really sad.
This is why I'd like to say I'ma fan of universal basic income
.
People deserve to live a goodlife, regardless of how

(01:20:48):
productive they are.
In the way that we think ofproductivity.
I really believe that if youhad your time back, not working,
that the things that you woulddo for your family, um, for
yourself, for your community,would be of much more value than
anything you could do in atruck.
Yeah, but it's not going to bedollars and cents value, and

(01:21:09):
thus it's not seemed uh, asworthy, for whatever reason.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Yeah I think that I think people also were afraid of
Bub, like what that means.
Especially soldiers Like theseguys must have killed thousands
of zombies and they probably didit in really horrible ways,
especially the way that theywould just laugh and ridicule
the undead.
If Bub is capable of feelingreal emotions, like fear and

(01:21:38):
empathy and joy and sadness,then all of those things that
they thought were just mindlessautomatons are actually people,
yeah, and they went from justclearing out a nuisance to being
mass murderers.
Sense, to being mass murderers.

(01:22:01):
The implications of what thatmeans for them, the
psychological impact of that,might be too much for them to
even accept, and part of theirresistance to Bub might just be
that they don't want to believeit.
They would rather dismiss it asa parlor trick.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
Yeah, maybe that's why we dehumanize and ostracize
others, because it's just toohard to think they're human,
because it doesn't allow us todo the terrible things we want
to do.
It's a good point, yeah, butBub does get his revenge, even
though I'm still mad that hedoesn't know that Dr Logan is a
piece of shit.
And they didn't get to go.
He did not get to go to theisland.
Well, he's not dead.

(01:22:39):
Yeah, but he did not go to theisland with sarah, you can still
get there.
He's gonna swim.
I guess that's possible.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
This is this is my dream, um, sequel to day of the
dead.
It's day of the dead, uh,weekend at bubs, and it's
basically weekend at bernie'stoo.
Um, but it's bub and he's aliveand he's dancing on the island.
He learns to dance and helearns to love.
Uh, bub gets his groove backthat's the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
Bub gets his groove back because bub is more human
than any single one of those, uh, military folks are human in
the sense of his basic emotions.
Yeah, and care, I don't know.
We love bub.
I don't have anything more tosay about that why?

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
why does it matter?

Speaker 2 (01:23:24):
well, I think I will just put it out there as
somebody who also doesn't eatanimals.
Uh, bub challenges first of allwho we see is fully human, but
also just who we see is worthyof respect, care rights in the
first place.
Bub is not that far off fromour dogs.

Speaker 1 (01:23:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
I would say he has got about the same level of
cognition as our dogs.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
Yeah, I think Nero could half answer the phone.
Yeah, he could.
If it's a 1980s phone, he couldknock the receiver off, like I
said dogs can drive cars.
Dogs can drive.
Look it up.
People and Bub can drive cars.
If you haven't seen it, it'sreally fun to watch.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
Bub can drive.
Bub could totally drive, yeah,but again, their ability to
drive is not what makes themworthy of respect and care.
I think, for me, where the lineis drawn is their ability to
feel.
If they have the ability tofeel emotion and they have the
ability to feel physical pain,then they are worthy of respect
and care yeah that's it and Idon't know if they can feel
physical pain.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
I feel like that's kind of an attribute of the
zombie is that they, they feelfear they don't feel that pain
because it's like bub.
He does the shaving thing inthe mirror.
He grabs a shit razor, cutspart of his face.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
He didn't feel that okay, well, I guess the, but he
did feel the emotion of fear.
Yes, and the other zombies inthe cave felt the emotion of
fear.
So I guess I'm still landing onthe zombies have human rights
side of the debate here.
I'm not on the opposite side.

(01:24:52):
Do you have emotions and canyou feel pain?
And if you are either of thosethings are true, then I think
you're worthy of some level ofrespect.
And frankly, I mean, I guesstrees I don't know if they feel
pain or have emotions I thinkthey're still worthy of respect.
Okay, we're going to get to thebasics.
I think all life deservesrespect.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
Yeah, you know there's.
There's ways that we have tonavigate society in order to
live.
One of those things is eatsomething that's living, and I
think in the zombie apocalypse,in most cases you would have to
shoot zombies because they'renot at Bub's level.
They're not on Bub's level yet.
They haven't learned yet to noteat you.

(01:25:37):
So until that happens, theunfortunate thing is, if you
want to live you got to shootzombies.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
So then, is dr logan actually the most compassionate
of them all, because he wastrying to get them to all be bub
?
But he was.
But he was doing it to makethem slaves, though.

Speaker 1 (01:25:48):
I don't know, I'm torn I don't know if he wanted
them necessarily to be slaves.
I think he was more intriguedby the concept that you could
teach them tasks.
Um, I don't know.
I don't think he wasnecessarily a capitalist in the
sense that he's thinking about,like, what value they can bring
to society after.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
Maybe that was why he couldn't communicate that to
the, to the soldiers, becausethe soldiers wanted to know
what's the practical applicationof this yeah, well, sarah had a
good point, though, which islike how many people to how many
of us are there left to catchevery single zombie and retrain
them like Bob?

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
Yeah, and do 15 hours of surgery that only one person
in the world is qualified to do.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
I think the best case scenario in this zombie
apocalypse, with this kind ofzombie, is humane euthanasia.
So shoot them the head, let itbe fast yeah, if they're dead,
shoot them in the head yeah, andwith that, I'm gonna give this
10 out of 10 zeds.
I love this movie.
I love george romero filmsbecause of the exact
conversation we just had, whichjust gets you to think about
things.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
It gets me to think about things in a different way
yeah, I feel like if you askedme 20 years ago, I would have
been like I don't know, it'slike a, it's like a seven out of
ten, it's definitely a 10 outof 10 now, um, because my brain,
uh, has gone from atrophied touh to to expanding, much like
bub's brain.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
Yeah, I've, I've become a bub myself and now I
can understand this movie alsowe need to read salem's lot by
stephen king, because that wasBub's read.
I already did.
I think I did too as a teenager, but I need to reread it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
Also, we watched the most recent adaptation of it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
We did.
I already forget.

Speaker 1 (01:27:25):
Yeah, it's Vampires.

Speaker 2 (01:27:27):
I already forget Town of Vampires in Maine.
Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, I barelyremember.
See, that's what I was tryingto movie that I love in a movie
that I was fine.
Yeah, it's like I think I willremember Day of the Dead, but I
already forgot that I watchedthe new Salem's Lot even though
it's probably a few weeks ago.
But for now, everybody, thanksso much for joining the Zellian
Book Club.
If you are new here, you foundus from Living Dead Weekend.

(01:27:48):
Welcome, it's really great tohave you.
We love to.
This is a community, it's notjust a one-way thing.
So you can actually leave us avoicemail if you're feeling up
for it 614-699-0006.
That'll be in the show notes.
Let us know what you think.
What did we miss in thisepisode?
I have a feeling that peoplelistening to this have opinions

(01:28:10):
about Day of the Dead.

Speaker 1 (01:28:11):
Do you agree that the editing feels like it was
edited for TV and that my theoryis correct, or?

Speaker 2 (01:28:18):
do you agree with what is factually documented on
the Internet?

Speaker 1 (01:28:21):
No.
Also, we would love it if yougive us a rating or review.
That helps us.
That's what helps us reach newlisteners.
Five stars please.
Five whole stars please.
We used to joke about 4.9 stars.
Then someone did it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
We've been forever ruined, yeah, so if you don't
like, us just don't.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
Yeah, you can sign up for our newsletter.
This is new and I'm stillfiguring it out.
I've got news about thenewsletter.
I'll talk about it in adifferent episode Because it's
not going the way I hoped itwould.
It's going to the spam filter.
I guess that's the update.
I just did it, that's it.
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):
We're also on Instagram.
It's currently really our onlysocial platform.
It's at zombie book clubpodcast, but you can also come
hang out with us at brainmunchers zombie collective on
discord.
There's a whole bunch of zombiecreators there and zombie
lovers.
We love to chat abouteverything zombies and sometimes
not zombies.
You can just send a picture ofyour dog in there and we'll be
like oh, cute dog.

(01:29:23):
Yeah, I want to see that dog.
I do, show us that dog, show methat hot dog yeah, you got a
hot dog.

Speaker 1 (01:29:30):
Show us that too preferably an actual dog.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
Yeah, in a hot dog costume.
That's what I'm going for.
If that happens because of thisepisode, I will consider it a
success.

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
Yeah, that would be an absolute resounding success.

Speaker 2 (01:29:44):
But in the meantime, for those who have been here for
all 99 episodes, thank you forlistening, For the folks who
showed up somewhere in themiddle between now and 99, thank
you also for listening and forthe brand new folks.
Have fun with our library ofepisodes.
Please don't listen to thefirst episode.
Zero.
It's terrible yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
No, episode zero is episode one.
It's the bad one.
Oh, is it?
I mean it's fine.
The terrible pilot episode.
It's titled the terrible pilotepisode.
Please don't listen to this.

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
I suggest you listen to the Amazon challenge if
you're new.
That's a very funny one.
Yeah, I like that one.
Yeah, classic.
But for now, everybody, the endis nigh.

Speaker 1 (01:30:20):
It is Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
Bye-bye, bye-bye, see you next week for episode 100.
Yay Bye, yay Bye.

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Day of the Dead | Zombie Book Club Ep 99

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Day of the Dead | Zombie Book Club Ep 99