Days Worth Living with Special Guests Rowen and Erica | Zombie Book Club Ep 93 - Zombie Book Club

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Welcome to Zombie Book Club, the only book club
where the book is a field tripand the field trip reminds us of
how happy we are to not havekids.
Sorry, parents, I'm Dan, andwhen I'm not on a field trip of
my own on the THC bus, I'mwriting a book that has a few
kids in it and I won't tell youwhat happens to them.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Okay, I'm Leah, and today we are really happy to be
chatting with Rowan Horton andErica Brand, co-creators of the
comic series Days Worth Living,a zombie apocalypse story that
is set in Illinois in 2005,which is now 20 years in the
past.
I have to say, for all themillennials listening, it's been
a while, so an interestingchoice we'll be talking about
later.
Rowan Horton is a gamedeveloper as well as the lead

(00:57):
writer on Days Worth Living, andErica is the comic's incredibly
talented illustrator.
Welcome to the show, Erica andRowan.
How are y'all today?

Speaker 3 (01:10):
We are great.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
How about you?
Yeah, we're doing great.
Very happy to be on the showwith you guys.
Yeah, I'm really happy as well.
I just recently read your comicand I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, I read it when you first sent it to us a couple
of months ago.
Thank you for your patience.
We are like the slowestslowpokes when it comes to
podcast stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, and then you read it for the first time
yesterday.
I did.
I'm not.
I'm still not finished with it,though I was.
I think I still have anotherchapter to go, but it's well,
we're looking forward tosurprising you with the latest
issue that's come out.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
It's definitely our favorite that we've worked on
and we've been looking forwardto getting to this one.
Issue five, just because thatis where we kind of consider it
is the first real look into.
Now we are in the apocalypseand not just pre apocalypse.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, it gets real without saying more.
But let's do our rapid firequestions first, because you are
a couple of, that's OK for meto say.
Yes, that is all right okay anduh, because you are
collaborators on days worthliving, we are going to require
you to give one answer, oneofficial days worth living
answer to each of our rapid firequestions one each, or one for

(02:16):
the both of us one for the bothof you.
You have to.
We want to hear you duke it outand then make a final decision
together.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
First question 40 hour work week or zombie
apocalypse?

Speaker 4 (02:30):
I had some of those questions that do I fantasize
about zombie?

Speaker 3 (02:34):
apocalypse, I would, I would say zombie apocalypse,
Cause I mean it's, it's awin-win.
I don't have to do the workweek and you know, if I die I
die, so it's a.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Erica, are you willing?
Are you willing to go into thezombie apocalypse with rowan?

Speaker 4 (02:50):
I mean I guess.
So if I have to come into thatsure, doesn't sound very sure.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
I'm worried about my own safety.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
No, I guess it would depend on the 40 hour work week
job.
So we'll say it's a bad job andwe'll say yes to the apocalypse
as many jobs are.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
I've found every job to be bad so pretty much the
same okay, so you got.
You got your zombie apocalypsejust like you always wished,
instead of having to go to work.
Erica begrudgingly agreeing tothis reality oh yeah, now
actually, both of you have tochoose on one weapon of choice.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Apparently that's how this works two people, two
people, one one answer you haveto share a weapon, I guess not
allowed to have your own weapon.
That's a terrible apocalypse.
I'm sorry we didn't think thatthrough.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
It's got to be something two-handed.
Then you know, Is it ranged orup close?

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Or do we get the choice.
You just have to agree on it.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
I feel like then it'd be better to keep things at a
distance from us.
So I think a good balance.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
I like to collect medieval weaponry, so I think I
have a sort of strange edge inthis question.
I would say a long type ofspear or pike, because
maneuverable, don't need a lotof training for it and you can
keep things at a distance.
And it has that advantage ofbeing quiet because I assume

(04:26):
we're in the type of apocalypsewhere hearing is their main
sense.
So having a quiet sort ofranged weapon to dispatch easily
with that would be my choice.
Do you agree with that?

Speaker 4 (04:38):
yeah, even though I think they're kind of what would
you choose, erica?
I'll break our own rules forthis uh, if I had to pick like
all on my own, probablysomething smaller like a bat
that I could just like use,ideally, that's a classic maybe
a little less skill that's alsovery important.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
I appreciate you both for choosing soundless things,
because nothing makes me moreupset when I'm watching a zombie
movie or a show and they'rejust being loud.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
I I'm like like shh being at the television because
it really bothers me.
They always, they always getguns wrong.
They make them sound like theyare these quiet.
Uh, you could just throw apillow over top of it and it's
silence.
It's like no, that still soundslike a car door slamming.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I think that's something that Hollywood has
gotten wrong for like 80 years.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
You think they would have just done?

Speaker 1 (05:35):
some research and figured it out.
I think it's getting better.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
I think one of the only movies that's done it well
is Heat, that shootout sceneafter the heist, where
everything is super loud andechoey.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
I think that's the only film that's done it
correctly yeah, heat had some ofthe best sound design of any
movie ever.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
It's it's just listening to it, it's kind of
incredible I'm nodding like Iknow what you're talking about,
but I can't tell what gun.
I have not spent enough timewith guns to like.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
No yeah, well, al pacino is a bank robber.
What does that have to do withthe sound?
Um, he shoots.
Okay, a few pews all right.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Next, this is our first new rapid fire question,
just for you two.
You find a dvd box set and aworking dvd player that is
powered by solar.
What is the one thing, the oneshow that you would watch
together for the rest of yourlife?

Speaker 3 (06:25):
I think I'll let you take that one.
I'm not a big TV Movies aremore my thing.
I don't watch a lot oftelevision.
It could be a movie.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
It's a DVD box set.
Yeah, that could be the Lord ofthe Rings trilogy, yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
I was just going to say, for me it had to be the
Lord of the Rings.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yes, is the Hobbit included with that?

Speaker 2 (06:44):
I feel like it has to be, since they're some of your
favorites.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
It could be a special edition.
It totally could be in all ofthem.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, I feel like the Hobbit's included.
If, in the same scenario, ifyou picked Star Wars, you got
all the prequels and theexpanded universe, I feel like
the Hobbit is the expandeduniverse of the world it's got
to be included.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
It's included, yeah and it's definitely the long cut
right yes, absolutely yeah, youwork friends.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Now, erica, you want the 19 hours of extra hobbits?

Speaker 3 (07:16):
yeah, yeah.
What else are we going to do topass the time?

Speaker 1 (07:20):
um, you know what I like this next question, because
it it's so perfect that youhave to agree on one of these
two answers.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Cause that would be real.
Yeah, in the moment you wouldhave to make a choice.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
You're, you're, uh, you're in a farmhouse.
You know, this might remind youof some type of scenario that
might've been in a moviesomewhere.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
I don't know.
I don't know why this seemsclear.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
You're in a farmhouse Weird it's surrounded by
zombies.
I don't know where you wouldhave seen that before.
You have two choices you can gohide in the basement and lock
the basement door, or you can goto the attic.
Which what do you choose?

Speaker 3 (08:01):
I am not going to lock myself in the basement and
potentially be stabbed to deathby a child wielding a trowel.
Uh, I say attic, because atleast at the very end there's an
escape by does this attic havea window?

Speaker 1 (08:13):
um, yeah, I think.
I think there's like a smallwindow, but there's no ladder
it's questionable whether peoplecan fit through this window
yeah, it's one of those like umcrooked witch windows that
doesn't allow witches to gothrough.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
I would say attic.
Zombies can't climb up, unlessthey're like 28 days later,
which then I don't think we'dever get to the attic or the
basement.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
I don't think we'd get to make that choice in time
To be fair, we haven't seen themclimb I mean in 28 weeks, oh,
in 28 weeks later.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, they climb up into the loft chasing
the old couple.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yeah, but I thought they came up through the first
floor.
They crashed into the windowsor something.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Clearly we are not.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
It's been a while yeah, we need to watch this
again.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Erica, do you agree with the attic?

Speaker 4 (09:00):
I actually do.
Even though he was in the endkind of able to survive in the
basement, I would personallypick the attic as well.
Same.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, it's, you know, you got an escape plan, even if
you have to break your anklesto get out.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, which is not the best case scenario when
you're surrounded already.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah, you can trap yourself in or break your ankles
.
Those are your two choices.

Speaker 4 (09:24):
Basements are kind of claustrophobic.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Agree, you know, I'm just realizing I think I would
have a better chance in an atticbecause I used to ride horses
and they taught me how to fallproperly, and I feel like I
could still apply a couplestories up, or I would just
break my shoulder instead.
I don't know.
But you don't want to try andland on your feet or your hands.
You want to roll.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
The Tuscan roll method yeah.
I've seen some people jump fromsome really high places
demonstrating how paratroopersfall Like.
For example, I saw my firstsergeant in basic training.
He jumped off of a two-storybuilding to demonstrate how
effective the roll technique wasand it was amazing to watch.

(10:10):
He looked like a superhero.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
This needs to be part of our zombie adult camp Is how
to jump out of a two-storybuilding and roll away.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Today we're going to be jumping off of a two-story
building.
Some of you might notunderstand how to do this, but
we're just going to crash courseit.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
You never know when you might need it.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
That disclaimer you signed, where you said you might
die.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
That's the first part that applies to here, yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Would you two do it If you were taught how to jump
and roll out of a two-storybuilding in advance?

Speaker 4 (10:38):
would you risk it, you'd do it Absolutely.
I don't know if I would.
I'm kind of afraid of heights.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
That's fair.
That's fair.
I'm not sure I would either.
I'm too fragile at 41.
Like I turned my neck the wrongway, we have trouble.
Oh yeah, I definitely wouldn'tsurvive it now.
No.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
I can barely survive sleeping in a bed that's not
ours.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
That's really true.
We hate leaving our bed.
You wake up and all yourligaments are shot.
Yeah, a good bed.
It's really important.
That's the only thing I don'tthink I could survive in.
A zombie apocalypse is a badbed.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, you know, when we're out on the road just like
Mad Max-ing it, we're going tobe dragging our bed behind us.
We'll put some off-road wheelson our bed.
That's gonna be our mad maxmobile and they.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
That actually sounds like it fit right in to like
fury road now, would that kindof vehicle fit into the world of
days worth living?
Tell us a little bit about it,especially for those who are
listening, who haven't read ityet just as in like a synopsis
or a rundown of the comic seriesitself yeah, just not
necessarily, whether or notvehicles would fit in well, I
need both answers first tell meabout what it's about and then

(11:53):
answer whether you think itwould be weird in the days worth
living world, have a bedmonster truck.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah all right.
So uh, days worth living.
As you said before, uh takesplace in illinois, 2005, which
we chose intentionally.
It was a deliberate choice toput it at that year because the
Bush presidency, coming off ofthe back of 9 to wondering if
this new virus came from theMiddle East, from an act of

(12:31):
terrorism, and there is a lot ofpolitical undertone with that
that I'm sure we'll get intolater, since it is a very
underlying theme with several ofthe characters.
Underlying theme with severalof the characters.
But, um, all of a sudden, on asunny field trip, september day,
all of the sirens start goingoff in inner city chicago and we

(12:54):
follow joshua martins, who isan elementary school teacher,
caught completely in thecrossfire of the end of the
world, more or less, as whatappears to be sick people start
attacking anyone in sight, andwhat is catching the military
and police off guard is it feelslike they turn to their left

(13:16):
and to their right and theircomrades are falling over and
turning into these things asthey are trying to combat it.
So everyone they take outspawns three or four more.
So Joshua, the bus driver, philand the rest of the class have
to evacuate the city and try tosurvive by any means necessary,

(13:38):
with no supplies, nopre-planning, no destination in
mind, as they just try and getaway from the city.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
And how old are these kids?
There's six of them.
What's their age?

Speaker 3 (13:49):
I would say they're anywhere from second to fourth
grade, samantha being the oldestchild at about 12 years old,
and Will and Sarah are bothabout nine or 10 years old.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
I can handle the 12-year-old, nothing younger.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Also nothing older Hormones start getting involved
11 to 12.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
That's it, Perfect.
That's the cutoff.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Now I have to we have to come back to the vehicle.
Would it be weird at this pointin your story as far as you've
gotten to see a Mad Max likemattress vehicle going down the
road?

Speaker 4 (14:25):
I would sort of say yes, that'd be weird.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
They don't get super far in like technical
advancement or like vehiclesyeah, they very, they stick very
um with what they have at thetime and I love that we have
planned out, instead ofsiphoning gas three or four
years into the apocalypse whenit would turn into water.

(14:49):
Turning to bicycles, why doesno other story focus on bikes as
a form of transportation?

Speaker 2 (14:57):
you are the story we've been waiting for.
I'm going to be telling all ofmy eco friends about it because
we've had a lot of discussions.
Um, some of my friends andcolleagues have been like why
are there no bikes in theapocalypse?
What the yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:10):
and it's not like it hasn't been done, like, uh, the
World War Z movie had a scenewhere they it was all special
forces dudes riding bikes itshould be the primary motive,
that should be the primary formof transportation.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Though it's quiet, it's fast no fuel required
except for your legs have to doyour legs, yeah, leg gas in 2005
, I'm not sure how popularelectric bikes were.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
I don't think they existed yet I don't think they
existed either I was alsothinking our bed wouldn't exist
because we have, unless it was ahospital bed.
We have like a fancy bed thatfolds and you know like changes
shapes what are those liketempur-pedic or helix sleep
mattresses haven't had a badsleep since.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
That's why tempur-pedic sponsor us they
cost as much as a used car, buttotally worth it totally worth
it.
Um so what?
What was the inspiration behind, uh, creating days worth living
together?

Speaker 3 (16:07):
I would say, uh, I mean, we've been together a
really long time and both of ushave either been writing or
artists for as long as we canhold a pencil.
And I think you are morespecialized in this one because
your animation and going from ananimator to a comic artist uh

(16:28):
yeah, so I don't really know.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
I sort of just went, I suddenly like zombies one day
suddenly for no reason sometimesit goes yeah, sort of I didn't
have like much introduction tozombie media before that, and
then I was like I really want towatch the walking dead, and
then it sort of just spiraledfrom there yeah, I love this and

(16:51):
before that.
Like I've been an artist for awhile and I always wanted to go
into animation, but then Istarted drawing over and over
again and I was like I don'tlike drawing the same frame over
and over, and so then I sort ofmoved into comics from there
and then we sort of just came upwith the zombie concept

(17:12):
together and it sort of justbecame the zombie comic that we
wanted to do.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
Like planting a garden you don't really know how
big the plants are gonna getuntil they start sprouting.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
That's an interesting analogy.
Are you two, both gardeners?

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Failed.
I feel that Definitely failed.

Speaker 4 (17:34):
We don't have a great garden, but we'd love to one
day.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
We're in the same boat.
Yeah, I've got a bunch ofseedlings upstairs, or rather a
bunch of dirt in littlecontainers that is not yet seeds
, and we'll see what happens I'msuspicious about the light.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
I don't think it's a uv light.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, I don't think so we got a tomato plant going
and then we left for vacationand it was not alive by the time
we got back something we allneed to work on for the zombie
apocalypse.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
We really really, really do so was there like a?

Speaker 2 (18:07):
was there like a spark, a moment where you both
looked at each other.

Speaker 4 (18:09):
You're like, let's do this uh, so we had been
concepting this story for alittle while and I kept refusing
to make it a comic because Ididn't have any familiarity with
comics.
And then I did some concept artand I think we just sort of
fell in love with the conceptart and then from there it was
just like I think we need to dothis now Because we just liked

(18:33):
the concept art so much.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
Disclaimer this is our first ever comic series and
in a way it's kind of been along time coming, because we
back in high school did a coverfor a zombie story, I think it
was.
We had a class that was likesuperheroes and science fiction.
One of the best classes that weever got to take as an elective

(18:55):
and I feel like it is just thedirect successor to where that
comic cover like started.
It just took several years toget to this point and finally
commit.
Yes, let's do a comic series,because why not?
We have the time for it, wehave the resources for it.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Uh, let's actually put our artistic talents
together and try and createsomething you mentioned that, uh
, the movie, the thing and 20Weeks Later were big influences
on your storytelling, and alsothe Walking Dead series.
Can you share more about that?

Speaker 3 (19:29):
Yes, the Thing is both of our favorite horror
movie of all time.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
I've never seen it, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
Convince me.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
I highly recommend.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Watch the 1982 version, not the 2011 version.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
I never saw the 2011 version.
I didn't care.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
You're not missing much.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
I was like no, I saw the good one.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
So you have about I think it's 11 or 12 scientists
trapped down in an Antarcticresearch station when they find
a basically a flying saucer thathas crashed into the ice.
They find a basically a flyingsaucer that has crashed into the
ice and they realize thatanother team has excavated the
remains from that ufo and thiscreature, whatever it is, that's

(20:14):
been frozen in the ice for ahundred thousand years, is still
alive and can take the form ofany living creature, as long as
it can assimilate it.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I I love it.
Why have I not watched this?
Oh, it's wild.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
And there are definitely themes that carry
over into a zombie type storywith it looks like us, it sort
of acts like us, but it isn't usand it's hunting us to try and
take humanity over, and wereally wanted to focus in on the
scientific aspect of that withthere are very defined rules to

(20:50):
how the zombie quote unquotevirus works.
That we will get into and laterissues when they find a
research station, and there aredefinitely similarities we draw
with, uh, frames and scenes fromthe thing, as well as the story
that inspired the Thing, whichwas a short story called who

(21:11):
Goes there, from, like I believe, 1937.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Wow, and as an homage to that, the issue when they
finally uncover kind of whatthis zombie sickness is is
called who goes there I lovehearing that like evolution of a
story from 1937 which I'm surethere was inspiration that that
person had when they wrote it tothe thing to nowadays worth
living.

(21:35):
It's just really cool to seethat legacy evolve and it's a
reminder that nothing is born ofnothing, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
I don't know if yeah, I definitely, I definitely
agree with what you're sayingand was the thing also part of
the reason why, erica, you drew?

Speaker 2 (21:48):
you drew the zombies to be pretty human.
I mean, they look like humansuntil they get up close.
Then you're like, oh shit uhyeah, sort of.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
you always see in the like zombies always look like
they're super infected or superdecayed and I sort of wanted
people to be looking at them andnot knowing at first whether or
not they're zombies.
I mean, it also helps thatwe're pretty new in the
apocalypse, so nothing's reallystarted decaying yet, but that
was also a part of it.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, sometimes.
Sometimes you know you'rewatching a movie or something
and the decay is almostinstantaneous.
It's like I've even seen somemovies where, like the infected
person, they're still talking tothe person while they're alive
and then they turn around andtheir face is all decayed.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
And it's like that their nose is falling off, and
it's like They'll decay in likeless than five minutes.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
However, they'll still be walking corpses for
like 20 years and it's like okay, you got to pick a rule here,
yeah, but I do love that yourzombies, for the most part, look
human at this stage, because Ifind it super realistic, but
also it makes it scarier becausethey don't know if they're

(23:01):
calling out to a human or azombie, and I think that's
that's something that needs,which we definitely in issue two
, where they're just wanderingthrough the suburbs and they
come across that abandoned carand they're just like, hey,
there's, there's people overthere.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
And then they call out to them and it is not people
, yeah, not anymore and the wayyou drew it, it looked like they
were doing very normal humanthings in the first scene, where
you see them in the car, andthen I and I really didn't
expect them to be zombies.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
That was a really great surprise, actually, I
thought this is gonna be like oh, these little new characters
they're gonna escape with andthen, all of a sudden, they're
in the middle of half a yeah, wealso tried to make the zombies
like a little bit more humanwith the actions and the things
that they do, whether it'smuscle memory or just like maybe
they have some semblance ofhumanity left.

(23:52):
It's kind of open ended at themoment, but I still think it
helps to make it a little bitmore frightening.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, it does, because I think when the more
human a zombie is, the moredisturbing it is, because I
think the choice to kill themthen becomes a little fraught,
more fraught.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Yeah, it's a very heavy moral choice at that point
.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
I think that's something that the Walking Dead
kind of missed out on.
Like season one, they they kindof hinted to it and you saw
zombies that would like returnhome, try to open doors and
stuff.
They had like a little bit ofintelligence.
Then by season two they justgot rid of it, and I think that
was a missed opportunity because, as as you can, as as you've
shown, you know, you can tell somuch story with a zombie, um,

(24:38):
just by insinuating like whothat person might have been,
based on what they, what theygravitate back to yeah, yeah, we
want to destroy.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
I feel like zombie media now has definitely become
oversaturated with the samething, and as much as I love the
Walking Dead and the comicseries that the TV show spawned,
from nothing but respect toRobert Kirkman for creating what
is probably the most iconiczombie story ever, I would

(25:06):
venture to even say that morepeople know the Walking Dead
than any of Romero's films.
And there I have manycriticisms of the show
adaptation, such as, like yousaid, season one.
There is some semblance ofhumanity and intelligence left,
and then they just forgot aboutit.
And the biggest thing that wewanted to stray away from is

(25:30):
shock value, doing things purelyto make you go, oh damn, that's
crazy.
Like we're gonna kill thischaracter to make you say, hey,
that was unexpected.
Why did they do that?
There is always going to be ameaning to it.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, that's.
That's a good rule to go by.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
And this is always a story Cause I I do agree there's
a lot of gratuitous gore in thelocking dead, which some people
love, but I don't, and I dohave to trash talk to locking
dead and want just one morepiece, which is that then in
season 11, the yeah, they came,they circled back to the
beginning so upsetting, worsethan they'd be like don't.
I don't even think it'scomparable to the beginning.

(26:07):
They're like planning things.
Yeah, in season 11, at leastone of them, I don't know.
But, um, I really enjoy yourzombie type.
The one thing that I think wehaven't touched on is like the
faster, slow zombie.
What, what kind of speed are wetalking for these zombies?

Speaker 3 (26:20):
all right, this is a really interesting one.
You got to take this one awayso it's kind of a mix.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
So when I was originally thinking about the
zombies, I wanted them to bekind of slow.
But if they're super slow thenthey're not going to be super
threatening.
Um, so I kind of thought of itas maybe they have like a
hunting instinct.
So they're faster at night butslower during the day because
they can't quite see when it'ssuper bright from the sun as
well.
So they're faster at night butslower during the day because

(26:46):
they can't quite see when it'ssuper bright from the sun as
well.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
So they're like super fast at night.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
So they do run, but only typically at night.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yeah, that's how I feel.
I'm slow during the day.
We're also slow at night.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
So they have a nocturnal.
What are their main senses,though?
So they can still see, but notas well in the daytime.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
So they are definitely and this has already
been hinted at, but it is a veryslow development that we're
excited to show off theevolution of basically a new
organism.
So they are pretty much betterthan humanity in every way,

(27:30):
except for creative intelligence.
They are slowly getting faster.
They're much stronger thanpound for pound, than an
equivalent human.
They can see better at night.
They can hear really well wehaven't really explored their
concept of taste or touch, butthey can smell very well, wow,

(27:52):
and they are getting better atit.
They're starting out basicallylike a new species that's trying
to find its ecological niche,and that niche just happens to
be the same one that we share,and we are also their food
source this makes?

Speaker 2 (28:11):
oh, they'll eat other things.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
They will definitely.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
They're creatures of opportunity and none of the
characters know that yet.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
But we are definitely excited to explore the slow
starvation aspect of if they areeating the same things we eat
and also eating us.
How are we going to survive?

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Oh, so are we talking about a scenario where you go
to uh rate, a convenience store,and all the potato chip bags
are empty because zombies gotthere first?

Speaker 3 (28:42):
not quite your lays will be fine okay that's all we
need to know.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
The zombies are like this isn't actually food anyway.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah the other thing that's made me think of is like
if they have a really sharpsense of smell, the issue of not
being able to bathe very oftenis is a problem, because maybe
they're just like sniffing outdirty humans.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Yeah, yeah, I've actually explored, explored that
a little bit as well, like wehaven't gotten to that point,
but eventually the water willshut off or pipes will corrode
and electricity will go andbathing yourself does kind of
become an issue, and I mean therest of the world kind of stinks
right now because there arezombies anyway, but then still,

(29:26):
if you're getting too close toone, they're probably going to
smell you, because you smell badtoo.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
It's also a different smell one thing that definitely
if you don't mind us talkingabout it is uh, there are female
members of the group and, justlike when you're camping, they
warn you about certain things.
With menstruation, that'sdefinitely going to be a fear of
.
Well, if they can smell livingtissue, is a period going to be

(29:55):
a problem when you aresurrounded in the middle of
nowhere by things that can smellextremely well?

Speaker 2 (30:03):
I, I'm gonna hope and I'm probably wrong, because
these zombies sound terrifying,but I'm gonna hope that if you
had like a diva cup and thenjust like got rid of it far away
from where you're sleeping,you'd be okay.
But I don't know.
From what you're telling me, Idon't know if that's true.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Or you know that's a diversion tactic.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Oh yeah.
Yeah, could use it Is that thereveal.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Is that how they?

Speaker 3 (30:25):
trick this out.
That is very creative thinking.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
The other question that we had and I know you
probably can't answer thisbecause you know this would be
too far of a reveal in thefuture, but we did notice that
there were hot dogs in thebeginning.
Dan was like wait, is theresomething in the meat?

Speaker 1 (30:42):
I was like it's the hot dogs.
The hot dogs started the virus.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
Without, and I feel like I'm trying to avoid
delivering on or not deliveringon promises with oh, we plan to
do this and plan to do that, butyou're definitely on the right
track.
I feel like on a slight tangenthere, there are many crossovers
between comics and film, andnot wasting a scene is super

(31:09):
important to us.
Yes, our issues are typically14 pages long, so every panel we
have is an attempt at showingyou something, and the hot dogs
being shown in the very firstpanel of the very first issue is
not a coincidence, and you werethe first person to pick up on
that, so mad props to that we'relegit over here at zombie book

(31:34):
club.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
Well, at least dan is , he's the one who picked it up,
I mean I'm not gonna, um, youknow, I've I've considered this
as well.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
I mean, if, if you're talking about a food that is
both uh uh, delicious and adisease vector the hot dog, the
hot dog, the hot dog.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
That's the prime one there.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, my second guess was going to be the drinking
water at Camp Lejeune, but yourstory doesn't take place around
there.
That is a veteran joke for allthe people who now have cancer
from drinking water.
Oh seriously.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
Yes, I know about Camp Lejeune, but I have not
served, so I'm afraid the jokewill go over my head just a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
I wanted to ask.
So you've got a few good maincharacters going on.
You've got Josh the teacher, mrMartins, if you will, and also
Phil the bus driver.
What inspired you to start yourstory here with these two
characters?

Speaker 4 (32:49):
So you typically see like you're starting with a
character who's like a cop orlike military man or like this
big burly dude who just seems toknow what's going on and how to
control everything.
So the thought was just sort ofhow do we start with ordinary
people who wouldn't know whatthe heck to do and also we're
forcing them to take care ofother people?

(33:10):
Are the kids theirresponsibility?
Technically they were in chargeof them, but that's like for
going to the zoo.
So what happens when the zombieapocalypse start?

Speaker 2 (33:22):
yeah, yeah, I like the first time I was like let's
just drop them all at home,it'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah I do love that the parents figured out.
Yeah, I love that conundrum too, because it had me thinking
while I was reading.
I'm like, yeah, this would be atough call if you were not
under, if you didn't understandthe full scope of what was going
on.
You're just like things arereally weird right now.
I don't know what we'resupposed to do.
You know it could be a deathsentence just dropping off these

(33:48):
kids at home, but at the sametime you're under a very
specific agreement that you areonly taking them to the zoo, not
riding the out the apocalypsewith them exactly and under
normal circumstances.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
If you just like, took a bunch of kids with you
after the zoo to a random placethat I like, with some other
people on another road trip andthey don't know like that's
officer.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
I'm fostering them in the zombie apocalypse, don't
ask questions.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
We're all going to get like phone alerts.
What are those phone alertscalled Amber alerts?
Like everybody's phone would begoing off Like this is not
normal behavior.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
There's been 12 amber alerts.
They're all on this bus.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Six, to be precise, Six, yeah, speaking of the six
kids.
So Josh is is a reallyinteresting character.
I kind of go in my brainbetween Joshua and Mr Martin's.
I'm not sure if you have apreference for what you call him
.
I think I think of a MrMartin's more when I think of
the kids, but he's, he is aprotector of them and he's
clearly centering theirwellbeing, which maybe that's

(34:51):
the choice he's made, right.
I don't know if Stacey, fromthe very first issue, would feel
the same, considering she saidthat she hated kids.
Basically.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
Just load them up on Benadryl, they'll be fine.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
I also hope Stacey comes back just as a sidebar.
I thought she was great, but itwas really interesting because
it was like Josh is a protector,he's a man, but he wasn't
really protecting them fromphysical threats very much.
It was like Josh is a protector, he's a man, but he wasn't
really protecting them fromphysical threats very much.
It was more like emotional carefor these kids and making sure
that they were as okay as theycould be and helping them leave

(35:23):
notes for their parents andthings like that.
And I have not often seen amale role in a zombie apocalypse
genre type of thing.
Where it's, it's that kind ofemotional care and I'm curious
why you made that choice versusthe typical like like he should
be out there fighting thezombies all the time yes, uh,
josh is the protagonist but thatdoes not mean he's the leader

(35:47):
of the group.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
That does not mean he's the main character, josh.
Joshua is the protagonistviewing actions happening to the
other characters and uh, philalready has the highest zombie
kill count.
He is the muscle of the groupas we're at right now, and we
wanted to focus on mr martin's,the teacher trying to take care

(36:11):
of Sarah, samantha Will with theskills he has, and Joshua, the
man eventually evolving into avaluable asset of the group
while not being.
He's not going to evolve likeCarol did in the Walking Dead.
He's not suddenly going tobecome an expert sniper or
hardened killer.

(36:32):
Joshua's's skill is diffusingsituations, talking people down
and being able to negotiate witha group of bandits rather than
getting into a shootoutis definitely going to benefit
your group in the long run, andwe wanted to show a perspective
of a character that I don'tthink I've ever seen in another

(36:54):
zombie story.
Lee from telltale's walkingdead comes close with that.
I'm taking care of a child role, but even then his past as a
murderer and his eventual skillat arms and being a strong
physical member of the groupends up kind of overweighing
that emotional element, which isjust what we wanted to focus on

(37:18):
with Joshua.
He protects them from basicallywhat they can't see and what
they are feeling, rather thanwhat they're seeing and feeling
physically.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
I really appreciate that, because I don't think I
was aware of this trope until Iwas presented with a character
that was not this Like.
We just finished watching SweetTooth.
Have you two watched that show?

Speaker 3 (37:40):
I can't say that we have.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Okay, it's a great show, but it has that same trope
that I've seen also, which islike the reluctant male
caregiver.
It's also in the Last of UsLike he's a reluctant, he's like
, oh no, now I'm responsible fora kid, and then he like
begrudgingly comes to love themover time.
Right, and they're not verygood at emotional care, you know
like, and so it was really niceand refreshing to see somebody

(38:02):
who is so clearly competent as aman in caring for kids.
So I just want to say thanksfor that, cause I don't think
I'd even had awareness of thattrope before reading.
Days Worth Living.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
And we wanted to focus on deconstructing
masculinity.
What does it mean to be notjust a strong caregiver, but
what does it mean to be a strongman?

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Well, it doesn't just mean I can plow through hordes
of zombies like Daryl.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
Dixon.
It means can I weather my ownemotions to take care of someone
else and can I be surrounded bycharacters like mike phil grant
who are all very physicallylike.
It is not a coincidence.
They are always drawn eithertaller or wider than joshua is.
He is an average build, averageheight guy, surrounded by a

(38:57):
corn-fed country farm boy, a airforce soldier and a pretty
well-built bus driver.
And he is, that's true.
He stands out as kind of thesmallest male character among
them, and that's not acoincidence that he is not
supposed to be physicallyimposing, but he is supposed to

(39:18):
be, in a way, emotionallyimposing.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Well, I love Mr Martens.
He could be my dad, even thoughI'm pretty sure we're the same
age.
Well, I hope we have more MrMartens in the world of zombie
apocalypse genre, because weneed them.
We need more models andexamples of what it means to be
a man than the superhero or thereluctant caregiver.
I mean, what are the othermajor tropes that we see with

(39:43):
dudes that are kind of tired?

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Just a genuinely terrible person.
Yeah, the lone wolf, the Daryl.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, the evil person .
I love when I see a characterthat's evil.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
That's not a white man Like I know that there's
some historical truth to that,but it's just nice to see people
be more complex and not alwaysjust like you're the worst
person here the first quoteunquote antagonist being and

(40:18):
it's not really a spoiler, buthe's a kid, he is a young
teenager who is basically leftalone to take care of a safe
zone, and he is exactly the typeof person that Phil alludes to
oh, I don't get off, I don't getstopped in this much outside of
the bus.
To oh, I don't get off, I don'tget stopped in this much outside
of the bus.
He is the black teenager thatwould be stopped based on

(40:38):
appearance alone.
So what skills does he have?
Well, he can intimidate, he canscare people into doing what he
wants.
He's not really going to beviolent in the terms of just I'm
an overly violent psychopath heis.
I have to protect my group andI'm doing it by my means, the

(41:00):
way I know how to, and that putsthem at odds with another group
that is just trying to do thattheir way.
He's not evil.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
He is looking out for others, maybe in a way that
most people wouldn't agree withyeah, I think that's a fantastic
idea too, because I mean, howmany, how many uh zombie movies
can you think of off the top ofyour head that have a teenage
character that doesn't just goalong with mom and dad?

Speaker 3 (41:27):
has to make their own decisions.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, even the nest yeah, actually I've not really
thought about that, like whowould we be?
Let's have a quick pause.
Who would you be as a teenagerin the apocalypse?
Oh wow, I think I'd be a totalasshole saying it now because I
thought I knew everything.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
I really did knowing how I was in high school.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Uh, incompetent so we've got an asshole, an
incompetent.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
I would get my group killed.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
What about you, Erica ?

Speaker 4 (41:57):
I would definitely be some sort of follower,
definitely in high school, andsometimes now I'm kind of a
nervous wreck, so I probablywouldn't be very helpful other
than carrying stuff for otherpeople.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Being nervous is key, though, because you're the
person that's going to be likewell, what if this happens?
And that's important.
That's what we're thinking.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
Yeah, I think that's actually survival.
Oh, is this a debate betweenyou two?
No, no, that's.
What I'm saying is like youplan ahead for all these
contingencies when you'reanxious all the time, and then,
when they happen, there is thatkind of cathartic sense of I was
right, but you don't reallyfeel good about it.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yes, yes, I've been there, Dan.
Who would you have been as ateenager in the apocalypse?

Speaker 1 (42:38):
I kind of have two answers for this.
If it was my early teenagehood,I would have been very quiet,
very demure.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Very mindful.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yeah, so mindful, and I probably would just do
whatever I was told.
Um, and I probably would justdo whatever I was told.
If this was like my laterteenage years, like 17 and 18, I
would be an absolute psychopath.
Um, there, like I I would.
I would probably just do somany things just because just
for shock value.

(43:07):
Um, I would probably done somany dangerous things too, like,
I probably would rarely rideinside the car.
I'd be the.
I'd be the one that's standingon the roof wielding a machete
in the back of the truck youknow, I'm like swinging a
machete around or like a biglong length of chain with a
hockey mask and being likewhere's all the people with the

(43:29):
good stuff?

Speaker 2 (43:30):
I want their good stuff you would definitely be
the problematic one of the threeof us.
It sounds like I would justthink I was right all the time
and probably get us killed forthat reason.
Um, I'm a recovering person wholoves being right.
I'm working on it.
Uh, I do still love being right.
I know how that one feels I'mopen to the possibility that I'm

(43:50):
not now.
Uh, 15 year old leah is alwaysright, always correct.
Uh, I want to jump in a littlemore into the question of like
why 2005?
You said earlier you know it'sthe time of the Bush presidency.
9-11 is only a couple of yearsago.
There's this fear and likeIslamophobia about the Middle
East and the potential like ofterrorist acts.

(44:12):
What is it about 2005 that wasso important to you to like make
the backdrop of this story?

Speaker 3 (44:17):
So we were both three years old in 2005.
But from what I remember, sothis is before the advent of
smartphones and before we hadthe internet.
But it was still in that wildwest kind of period.
We wanted to keep thingsisolated.
So in an interconnected worldthat we have now, people would

(44:39):
be tweeting or reposting orthere'd be a thousand videos on
tiktok, the instant thatsomebody would be devoured in
the street, and then hundreds ofpeople would remix that and
stitch that with cringe brainrot music over top of that
there'll be people reacting toit, just like pointing their
finger up at the footage I thinkthat's um.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
It is a conundrum of modern uh media now to contend
with a phone because you can'tlike it's true if it's.
If it's set into 2025, likewhat changes about your story?

Speaker 3 (45:10):
uh, definitely, I feel like they would have
returned to the school becausewe already see the principal
trying to get in contact withhim.
But with smartphones, that, allthese alternate ways of
contacting someone oh, a phoneline's down, that's no big deal
I'll jump on someone's hot spotreal quick but if joshua can't
get in contact with theprincipal in 2005, that's it.

(45:32):
He either has to go back to theschool or prioritize dropping
these kids off with theirparents.
The removal of technology andthe connection with others
basically forces them intoconnecting with people that they
run into on accident andeverything happens in a strange
way physically, there's nodigital interference beside that

(45:55):
first phone call and, like yousaid, with Islamophobia and the
war on terror going on, you runinto people with majorly
different political views.
Like we've had this discussionbefore of what characters would
vote with which politicalideology, what characters would

(46:17):
vote with which politicalideology, and it's been super
fun to keep track of like 30characters and which political
stance they lean.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Like, grant is definitely a hardcore republican
I picked oh, we lost power, butyou want something awesome.
We have backup wi-fi and backupbatteries for our laptop, so
we're fine all right, do youneed anything from us, or are we
still?
You sound great.
Yeah, just know, for somereason we do totally disappear.
That's why, um but, and Ireally hate it, I hope that

(46:45):
doesn't happen, but thankfullywe have time till this issue or
this episode comes out.
Uh, what were we saying whenthe video 2005?

Speaker 3 (46:50):
oh, grant, grant.
Could you tell us a littlepolitics?

Speaker 2 (46:51):
yeah could you tell us a little bit about grant,
because I think that grant 2005.
Grant, back to politics.
Could you tell us a little bitabout Grant, because I think
that Grant and I'm forgettinghis wife's name right now.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Edith.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Grant and Edith are showing up potentially as some
key characters.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Yes, so Grant is a Vietnam era veteran and that
will be explored Now.
It's not a core aspect of hischaracter, but it does lend
certain things to his backstoryand the actions that he takes.
Uh, they are definitely peoplethat have seen hard times and

(47:25):
great times and grant is thathyper masculine character that I
don't feel emotions.
I'm just doing what's right totake care of my family and, in a
part of my french, fuckeveryone else if, if it comes
down to that, it's me, my wifeand sarah.
That's taking off.
But he is definitely going todevelop into that found family

(47:51):
character of these are my peopleand we love grant's evolution.
Almost he might be one of ourfavorite characters.
To write just character wiselike top three.

Speaker 4 (48:04):
For sure you have anything to add with that um
explore edith and her problem soedith is also kind of fun
because she's an older woman andyou can already tell that she's
a little bit sick maybe.
And then how do you deal withpeople who maybe are sick in the

(48:26):
apocalypse as well when theyneed like medication and stuff
like that?
So I mean, I don't know thatshe has much political, but just
as a character yeah, definitelyexploring the aspect of you're
taking care of someone withdementia.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
How do you keep them close with your group?
How do you keep them safe whenthey have a tendency to forget,
wander off, think they'resomewhere where they're not?

Speaker 2 (48:52):
yeah, suddenly forgetting that it's the zombie
apocalypse is a very dangerousthing.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Um, I have a very important question, oh um, and
you know what, if you don't wantto answer this because it's a
spoiler, I understand, but doesedith ever get to her book club?

Speaker 2 (49:11):
is the book club even still happening was my question
.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
I'm I'm gonna have to say, uh, probably not ah,
that's a bummer I I.
One of the problems with edithis she's a very difficult
character to write and I feel alot of the time she kind of gets
pushed to the back because whatdoes she contribute to the
group when you have greaterstories to tell of them going

(49:36):
out?
Edith is usually relegated tothe house and it's a shame
because I feel like she would bea greater character to explore.
But it would pad a lot of pagesto just see more or less what
would be the same thing withtheir character a lot maybe
edith deserves her own likespecial side.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Uh quest issues yeah yeah, dimension, the apocalypse,
yeah, oh, my gosh, edith edithgoes to the book club.
That's perfect.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Yes, I would read that um she's reading to a group
of zombies that would bewonderful.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Uh, grant is an interesting character though,
and just for context, these arethe grandparents of one of the
kids, sarah, and that's wherethey end up as they've escaped
the city at this point, and hereminds me a little bit of
Herschel.
I'm curious if there was someconnection there when you were
thinking with that Grantarchetype.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
We kind of wanted to avoid going too close to
Herschel, which is why he'swildly different in personality
but very similar in archetype.
So owns a farmhouse, old kindof wise center of the group.
But Grant is dismissive.
He's sharp, he's a littleabrasive and we see those

(50:52):
aspects with Herschel when theyexplore.
Explore oh, he's a recoveringalcoholic.
But more often than not he'sthe moral center.
He is someone that rick canlean on.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
And in the aftermath of what happens at the end of
issue five, grant is furious, heblames everyone around him for
what happens and he is on theverge of kicking all of them out
because of an accident thatmore or less is grant's fault

(51:24):
yeah, I mean that's aninteresting thing, but it's it's
really clear right from themoment we meet him, because a
bunch of strangers are showingup at the door who are handing
him his granddaughter, so that'snice, but he doesn't want to
take them in, and I thought thatthis was like one of the.
You had a few key ethicaldilemmas in the the issues that
are out so far, but this was oneof the big ones that I felt,
which is like this moment ofwould you, if strangers showed

(51:45):
up at your door They've got oneperson you know, in this case,
that you care about, and they'resaying we need a place to stay
do you let them in?
And he does, but it's verybegrudgingly like he does not
want them there and he wantsthem to leave as soon as
possible and I could not saythat I would do that.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
I I'm not sure I could shelter three complete
strangers like grant's a big guybut if these people have an
ulterior motive, fighting oneperson would be easier for him.
But I feel like a lot ofhollywood definitely destroyed
that.
Two people instantly tips thescale.
So if violent altercation brokeout, grant's definitely

(52:25):
thinking with his past in thewar.
He's not going to be able totake three people on what.
If this is a trap, what happens?

Speaker 2 (52:33):
and this is a bush voter who probably is really
upset because of 9-11, um andtheir experience in vietnam and
like they have a lot of fearalready and like a focus on
protecting themselves and theirfamily yes, definitely a aspect
of his character with.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
We see in his dialogue, uh, where he often
says not in my country, wherehe's a very, very proud patriot
yeah, and there's also that,that, uh, that balance of, like
you know, maybe he doesn't wantto bring people in because he'll
be outnumbered, but also, ifthey're on his side, then he

(53:07):
could bolster his numbers and bemore protected I don't think
he's thinking like that yet yeahnot quite yet hopefully he gets
there.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
And then the other thing that I the other ethical
dilemma that I thought about inthis moment too is like, okay,
he's let the people into hishouse and he's very clear, it's
his house, his rules, which islike a general norm.
Right, like you go tosomebody's house, even on a
regular day, you're not going tostart rifling through their
cabinets and like go into theirbed and go to sleep.
Like we have social rules, um,but now it's the apocalypse and

(53:38):
like shit is upside down.
How long do you get to make therules, just because it happened
to be your house first?

Speaker 3 (53:43):
yeah, it's definitely the uh needs of the many versus
the needs of the few.
Like when do your societalnorms start to break down?
And for grant, that might belonger or quicker than you
assume, because he is apragmatic person, but he is a
very emotional person as well,and I don't mean that in the way

(54:04):
of where a lot of thequote-unquote alpha males would
be like oh, he shows emotions,he can't be a man.
Grant can cry, he can upset,but more often than not he just
tends toward anger.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Sounds like a lot of men in that generation and still
many men in ours in themillennial land.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Grant sounds like my dad.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Yeah, erica, what would you do?
Like, okay, let's make this areal situation.
So somebody, let's say threepeople, show up at your door.
One of them is a kid that youhave.
I don't know if you havechildren or if you have nieces
or nephews or like friends withkids, but imagine it's a kid
that you really love.
What would you let them in?
What would you do?

Speaker 4 (54:42):
I know that's such a tough one because I don't know
if I would.
I'd be very grateful for theirhelp, but I don't know if I'd
let them in.
But I'd be really worried if Ididn't let them in they might be
angry and come back laterbecause maybe they thought they
deserved to come in my frontdoor because they brought me
this child, you know.
So I think it would be a hardbalance.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
I think if they came off as really friendly, I might
just let them in, because I'd betoo afraid of not letting them
in and not coming back there'sthat anxiety for you yeah, yeah,
they definitely gotta come backlike take the kid again or
something trust is a hard thingin our society, especially as
people who, like we, don't umshare a lot in this culture, in

(55:25):
the sense of, like we alltypically have our own homes, we
have our own jobs, we have ourown ways of being and like I'm
thinking the same thing, like ifsomebody randomly appeared here
, even if our neighbor, whosename I will not mention, I think
we'd let her in.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Actually, I'd let her in, even though she annoys me,
without saying anything else,but we would be like you think
it's safe to go back to yourhouse yet.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
Yeah, when are you going to leave?

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Yeah, I'd look out the window and be like I don't
see any zombies.
I think it's clear.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
There's something about trust earned, though,
because, in the same vein, likewe told you before, we were
recording that there's anelectrical I mean, hopefully
it's out by now but there was anelectrical fire happening
nearby us, right by one of ourneighbor's houses, and they
texted me to let me know becausewe wanted to know if we knew.
We had no idea, but they'reclose by and I said like if you
need to get out, just come toour house.

(56:15):
And like I didn't think twiceabout that and that's a family
with two adults, two kids and abunch of dogs, and I think that
shows the power of community andhow like relationships matter,
because I wouldn't hesitate fora second for them to come over.
But my other neighbor I'd belike, oh god, this is gonna be
human.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Compassion definitely shows through in the hardest of
times, yeah, and then sometimeshuman.
Whatever the opposite ofcompassion would be definitely
can be the worst in the worst oftimes.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Look at just war crimes or war in general yeah,
those people definitely existand you know, we're seeing,
we're seeing it on full displaythese days.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
You know I forget what it's from.
Leah might remember the name ofthe book, but the measure of
evil being the lack ofcompassion.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
I don't remember the book, but it's Hannah Arendt
about the banality of evil.
Yeah, that regular people willdo evil things because, uh, they
were told to basically and thennot really understand that it's
evil yeah, I, uh.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
I definitely resonate with the steinbeck quote um war
is a symptom of man's failureas a thinking animal oh yeah and
that one has always stuck withme that is really, really
powerful.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
It is a weird time we're in because that you know
there's this thing, this, thisconcept now that I've never
heard of until I don't know twoweeks ago toxic empathy.
And I'm like a reallyempathetic person and so when
I'm reading your comic I'mputting, I'm trying to be like
okay, like I kind of get wheregrant's coming from, but I think
I'd be the person who would letthem in, but actually that's
risky, like I don't want toadmit that there's truth that

(57:56):
sometimes empathy can be risky,because I think the this idea of
toxic empathy is a little bit.
It doesn't align with my values.
I guess is what I'm saying.
But I have to admit that youyou still have to have some
judgment about who you let itand who you don't right.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Nothing is ever black and white no, I'd go off of a
vibe check Vibes To have goodvibes, all right it is funny,
though, Like there is like doyou two have this where you're
just like, yeah, I just trustthis person?

Speaker 2 (58:21):
I don't know why I trust them, I just do.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
Yeah.
So I started as a veryintroverted person in high
school and now, like I'm veryextroverted, perverted and it
just I, there's definitely afeeling of just I click with
this, this, this guy, we're,we're friends now and it can be
a day that I know them.
It's like sometimes there'srisk to that.
Maybe I shouldn't immediatelygo yeah, we're, we're cool.

(58:44):
When I don't really have thebest grasp on someone and I'm
just going off of, this is thefeeling they give off vibes.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Yeah, I wonder if, uh , if grant and mr martinens are
going to become buddies at somepoint, or if that's going to be
a rough journey definitely arough journey, but uh, there are
always lights in the darknessyeah, I mean, they're pretty
diametrically opposed, but likethat can also be a good
partnership we uh, thecharacters are, I feel, like,

(59:12):
some of the hardest things towrite.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
I myself am more of a world builder more than a
character writer, so this hasbeen a a tough one for me, and
without Erica, who is the muchbetter character writer, I don't
think I could do this story tothe justice that it deserves.
Without her take on people thatI might not think of.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
What's it like working together?
Like how do you each contributeto that vision of the story and
the characters?

Speaker 4 (59:39):
I'd say for the most part it's really positive.
We go through the story andthen we both kind of put in our
input If there's something thatwe kind of disagree on or if we
think that a character needs alittle bit more work, and then
when we're actually creating thecomic we both work together
pretty well.

(59:59):
I usually do like the layouts,the line works, and then he'll
do the coloring and the text andstuff.
So it's a lot of back and forthbetween the two of us and it's
just open, open collaboration.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
So, uh, we have had our fights.
I want to hear one we'regetting fight fight.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Tell us a fight.
Was there like a generativefight though, like that actually
you're like, oh, this was like,that was rough, but it's better
on the other end we havedefinitely.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Yeah, had those.
We had one funny enoughyesterday where we're both
experiencing burnout for thefirst first time.
I mean, we've felt burnt outbefore, but we're at the point
where this is extremely crushingburnout because we put an issue
out every month it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
I've been wondering.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
This is this is the beginning of a new arc and we're
changing the.
If you've noticed, between thefirst three issues and then
issue four and five, we tried anew technique to raise the
quality of the image.
However, that means that theimages are much heavier and
they're not kilobytes Now,they're megabytes of just a

(01:01:07):
single page and they're harderto color and harder to letter.
And experimenting with newtechniques while also trying to
stick to a deadline can be verydifficult, and we don't tend to
scream but we do make verypointed, pointed sentences like
phrases at each other.
We can get kind of cruel and wealways we always apologize

(01:01:32):
afterward because usually it'semotion taking over, because
we're both just tired and it canbe a tiring experience, but
it's definitely worth it.
We love doing the comic for thelove of doing it we can relate
to that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Yeah, I think like we have created differences.
Sometimes there's fingerpointing at each other, um, but
this is like we.
You know, as I mentioned we'renot.

Speaker 4 (01:01:52):
We are childless people, but this is our child in
.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
This is like you know , as I mentioned, we're not, we
are childless people, but thisis our child in a way, and I,
you know you start to carereally deeply about it.
And the fact that you all havemade the commitment on a monthly
basis to release something, bythe way, for free folks like you
can go and read the first fiveissues is a huge commitment to
make.
On top of what I'm imagining,you have other other
responsibilities in your lifeyes, uh, just a general thing of

(01:02:17):
working a job.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
I feel like that.
A lot of people realize that westill have a 40 45 hour work
week to contend with as well asthis, and it can be difficult to
juggle all of them, and I likeloading my plate up with stuff.
So, having to juggle a job andthen my responsibilities to the
comic and then wanting to writebooks myself and then also doing

(01:02:42):
side projects for the comic, Isometimes bite off way more than
I can handle it resonates justa little bit, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
yeah, I mean I I'm really fortunate that like I get
time during the winter, my offseason, to like relax and stuff,
and you know this podcast.
We used to do it every twoweeks and then one winter we
decided, hey, let's do it everyweek, and then that continued
into the work season and now I'mgetting close to that work
season I'm like, oh, my God, mygod, am I gonna be able to do

(01:03:15):
this?

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
yeah, is it sustainable?

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
yeah, yeah because we're trying to read something
every two weeks for an interviewand it's yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
I don't know how we're gonna be able to sustain
that when you're back at workafter your off season um, I want
to talk a little bit about theuh, the art and and visual
storytelling, because I found itreally great.
One of the first things that Icommented on, in fact, to Leah
was how I really appreciate howthe most important things in the

(01:03:45):
scene is what gets the mostdetail.
You're not being distracted bya lot going on in that scene
other than what's important.
Being distracted by a lot goingon in that scene other than
what's important and, uh, and Ithink that's something that's
that's a a good lesson forpeople that are that are
illustrating comic books is likeyou want to draw attention to
that important thing.
What, um, what was, what kindof influenced your style when

(01:04:09):
you decided to uh, to make thiscomic?

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
uh.
So first of all, I reallyappreciate that, um, but to be
honest, I didn't have like a lotof study in comics before I
started this, uh, so I basicallyjust sort of picked up a few
walking dead comics.
I have a couple of superherocomics and I've read a couple of
webtoons here and there and Ikind of just tried to feel out

(01:04:37):
what art style would just feelbest for me.
And it's maybe not as quite asgritty as I've was hoping
originally, but I found thatthis works best for me because
it's manageable.
It's manageable for me to beable to do this the way that I
do it.
I know that originally, when Iwas wanting to do the grayscale

(01:05:00):
background but in red, uh, wekind of had arguments about that
as to whether or not we thoughtthat would look good, but I I
was really passionate about justhaving this red background that
everybody kind of pops outagainst, with, uh, the colored
characters, and I thought thecolored characters would also
help you know who's who, becauseI don't want all the characters

(01:05:26):
to begin to look the same.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
Same face syndrome.

Speaker 4 (01:05:29):
Which I'm hoping so far I don't have.
But when you have a larger castthat can begin to happen just
naturally.
So I was hoping that by addingcolor to the characters against
a red background they'd pop andyou would know who's who.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
I think you achieved that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
We definitely fought on the red toning of everything.
I thought it was going to besilly and it wouldn't really
work, and I have totally comearound to those outdoor scenes
during the day having that grayscale, but it's gray red.
So clouds are a pinkish color.
Uh, foliage is a dark kind ofreddish, reddish gray color and

(01:06:08):
I think it works to set theatmosphere and then at night
everything becomes violet tonedor brown toned, and I think that
works incredibly well too, andI admit that I was in the wrong
on that and jumped way too hardon.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
This isn't gonna work how does that feel to hear
erica?

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
very great but visual storytelling for us.
For me um, coming off of theback of game design and also
wanting to go into film visualstorytelling is my favorite
medium.
So laying things out in a waythat tells a complete narrative
without having a single line ofdialogue, like in issue three,

(01:06:46):
where you see the uh.
They go to samantha's trailercourt and joshua's looking over
and you just see that one femarsoperative in the yellow coat
with that big open bite mark onhis leg tells you exactly what
happened, because there's femarstape everywhere, police tape
everywhere and one loneoperative who is definitely

(01:07:08):
turned but just waiting there.
You don't need any dialogue.
He doesn't need to go what'sthat?
Or have a thought about it,because he knows what it is.
We is and I trust the reader, Itrust our audience to know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
I don't need to hold your hand and spell everything
out no, you don't, but you alsodo a good job of like I knew all
the characters names, whichsometimes, when I'm reading a
comic, I'm like who is thisperson?
I keep seeing them.
I need to go back and find that.
Yeah, so I just want to saythanks for that.
That makes a difference forsomeone like me, because I
forget characters' names inshows I've watched for years,
like the Walking Dead.

(01:07:41):
Who's that character I don'tknow.
I did want to ask you, though,erica.

Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
You said it wasn't as gritty as you initially were
thinking, and there's actually aone of the panels where there's
a zombie has been shot in thehead and their eyes popping out.
I just stared at that one imagefor quite a while, so I thought
that was gr.
I think there could be more,and maybe that's just because
your artwork will never beperfect in your own eyes.
I tend to have a kind of cutesyart style, though, so this is
fairly different from what Inormally do, but I do like
hearing that that you thinkactually it's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Yeah, I really enjoyed that one image in
particular.
Like that would be.
I would, if you were doing akickstarter or selling stuff,
like I'd buy that as a littleposter for our zombie room that
we're in right now.
Um, which brings me to my nextquestion for you, as somebody
who used to or not used to, butprimarily dry as cutesy things,
I'm kind of like you.
I'm also an artist and beforezombie book club I'd never drawn
anything like gory or on thedarker side of stuff.

(01:08:48):
And then I've discovered thislove for it.
I had no idea until I starteddoing it and my reaction to
drawing really disgusting thingsis it makes me laugh the whole
time because it's so, soridiculous, but also grosses me
out, and I'm curious what it'slike for you, as a typical sort
of cutesy drawer, to be like I'mgoing to draw a head getting
blown in by a gun and an eyepopping out uh, yeah, so I'd say

(01:09:12):
it's probably pretty similar.

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):
When I draw it I do feel kind of silly, uh, and it's
hard to imagine it, because Idon't actually like gore very
much.
So I don't want to go out of myway to search a reference I've
learned that lesson too.
Yeah, I've had to like search mybrain for movie scenes that
I've seen and how could I makethis graphic?
But like I don't want to lookfor something graphic, I think

(01:09:37):
for the most part, fortunately,I've been able to find a good
balance, since most of thezombies aren't terribly gory
anyway.
But at first, trying to figureout how I wanted to do it was
pretty tough.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
I enjoy it and I think like that's probably why
that one image stands out for me, because it's not just constant
gore being shoved at you allthe time, and so now I just have
a like.
That image will live rent freein my head forever.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
Finding a good balance between, yes, this is a
violent, bloody world, but alsoyou're not going to constantly
be surrounded by buckets of itjust all the time, I mean it
depends on where you hang out.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Um, yeah, yeah, I've.
I've recently, uh gone back tothis, this, um, this thing that
I used to do as a kid and I'm wemade a video about it and uh, I
made like a little clay zombieskull and then shot it with a,
with a pellet gun, and I feellike that would be like
incredible drawing referencematerial yeah, get a time lapse

(01:10:42):
of that where you can pause onthe perfect frame of it just
shattering yeah oh, I did wantto ask you, erica did you ever
um look up an image that youregretted as part of your
research?

Speaker 4 (01:10:54):
I have not yet good for you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
I've made that mistake and I I was like why did
I put that in the search bar?
So I'm very impressed that youhad the foresight to not do that
I'm hoping it stays that way Irecommend it after seeing some
of the things that I I googled.
Charred flesh, don't do that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
Oh no yeah yeah, I think that's probably like one
of the worst things you can lookup on the internet.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
It was your fault, because you were like what if
the zombie crown had charredlooking flesh?

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
and I was like I don't know what that looks like
yeah, I kind of forgot thateverybody just doesn't have
locked into their brain whatcharred flesh looks like like
real.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
Second, third degree burns on a person are awful
nasty it is a screwed up sitefor sure.
Like I would rather look atsomeone's insides than someone
burnt, just personally Iwouldn't want to look at either,
but if I had to pick, yeah, Ithink I'm, I think I'm with you
on that one I've never done awould you rather icebreaker?

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
but I think I might take this as inspiration, like
would you rather look atsomebody's intestines spilling
out or somebody who's badlyburned?

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
that'll be a good one .
Use that one.
Use that one the next time,okay, yeah I'll just like right
out the gate.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
It's our first rapid fire question that'll.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
That'll determine if they're, if they're willing to
sit out the rest of it dealer'schoice, or rather your choice as
the creators?

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
would you like to talk about the influence of the
walking dead games from telltale?

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
yeah, absolutely, because there is a quote that I
have seen no one else talk aboutthat for some reason stands out
to me as just a prime zombieapocalypse quote and also just a
prime light fiction quote, likeit just works for me and I've
definitely taken it with me withevery issue and the dialogue

(01:12:43):
that we're writing for that.
And it's when they're in the RV,lee and the little girl
Clementine are together andClementine asks why another
character had been killed by amember of their group and Lee
responds with just and it'sdelivered so well.
Because bad things happen toeverybody and I think that

(01:13:07):
carrying that with the entiretyof the story with children,
multiple child characters beingvery core, central characters to
the story, having thosequestions for characters like
josh or characters that don'thave an answer uh, like mike,
who's not really, he doesn'treally understand kids, so so I

(01:13:29):
can see him answering that withthat, because bad things do
happen to everybody andsometimes there are horrible
things that that person didn'tdeserve, but also, on the flip
side, bad things happening tosomebody that deserves it isn't
always something you shouldcelebrate, and that is what, for
us, makes days worth living inan apocalypse how you treat your

(01:13:53):
fellow person, and that's whythe title is what it is.
How do you find those days in ahorrifying, crushing situation
where everyone you know iseither dead or the walking dead
or has punched their own ticket?
At this point, how do you findthe motivation to go on?
What makes life worthcontinuing with?

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
You answered a question.
I was going to ask you aboutthe name and I had that vibe,
and I think each character Iimagine has to find their own
answer, just like we all do inregular life even.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
Absolutely all do in regular life, even absolutely
for uh, for me, when, when lifewas at its hardest, I, I think I
, continued with life out ofspite.

Speaker 3 (01:14:36):
So I think that'd be how many people do that'd be my
answer in the apocalypse.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
It's like the apocalypse can't kill me.

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
I'm still here I'm gonna live just because I can
yeah, yeah, I was on the flipside before, dan.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
Now I have more confidence in our ability to
survive.
But if I was not with you, I'dbe like you know, I'm going to
find a peaceful exit If zombiesappear.
I don't want to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:58):
It sounds like someone I know.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
I'm not giving.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
I'm not giving up my bed if you make me a mad max bed
.
Okay, I'll stick around.
How about that?

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
so you had a question for us yes, and it ties into
what you were saying about eachof the characters finding their
their own days worth living.
Of all of the main charactersthat have been introduced and
I'm counting josh phil, sarah,sam, mike, grant, edith and
Cassidy now who's beenintroduced in the newest issue

(01:15:34):
Of all of them, who are yourthree favorites and who are
three that you know that youwould not really get along with
and are maybe not your leastfavorite, but ones that don't
appeal to you quite as much asthe others?

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Okay, I got this I uh , grant is one of my favorite.
Grant is one of my favoritecharacters.
Absolutely don't want to knowhim in real life, um, uh, yeah,
enough of that in my realityalready, and not because he's
not, he's not.
It's not that he's a bad guy,just uh, knowing me, we'd get

(01:16:10):
into too many political debates,like in the midst of a zombie
apocalypse.
We would be duking it out andthat wouldn't go well.
Um, but I also find him reallyinteresting as a character
especially when it's his farmyeah you'd have to hold your
tongue a lot yeah, um, I reallylike mr martin's, for all the
reasons that we've alreadytalked about, just that he is a
man that feels um, this mightsound kind of ridiculous, but

(01:16:34):
I'm just gonna say it like a lotof as somebody who was, who was
raised and socialized to be awoman in a body that looks like
that.
I it's not every day that Itrust a man.
To be frank, like that takesthat speaking of trust like that
takes extra effort for me totrust a cis man.
And I trust Mr Martens and Ifeel like I'm sure he's a deeply

(01:16:56):
flawed character like everybodyelse in it, but I think that
his heart is good and I likethat he chooses to protect and
care in the way that he does.
So he's definitely a favoritefor me.
And then for the kids do I haveto pick a kid?

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
you don't have to pick a kid I care about them.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
I don't want them to die, but I think I'm more
interested in, like I, and Ithink that they play an
important role in the story.
So I wouldn't want them todisappear absolutely.
But I gotta say my thirdfavorite character is phil.
Yes, yeah love supremacy yeah,um, in terms of like who I
wouldn't want to be, I thinklike the whiny kid.
Which one's the whiny kid?
I'm forgetting the one that wassick and died yeah, that one was

(01:17:36):
okay, I was okay with it.
But isn't that a spoiler, dan,that you just said that?
No, that's an issue too okay.
Yeah, I was okay with it.
I was sad, but also like what agreat piece of art moment when
they're pushed over into thepool.

Speaker 3 (01:17:50):
Gotta say yeah or is it a pool, because yeah it was a
pool.
Our biggest problem with thatis originally there was a little
bit more blood pooled under him, but then people took it as
mike had shot him.
But it's like no he didn't, hecouldn't bring himself to do it.
So that was clear to me thatthat is pivotal to his character
in these first couple of arcsyeah, that was clear to me and I

(01:18:13):
although, like I think pushinga kid is also a rough choice,
not great, not great I can't sayI would have made the same and
I'm not pro I'm not pro themdying.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
I'm just saying that, like the whining is why I don't
have kids what about you, dan?

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
um I'm.
I think I'm gonna put phil asmy number one, um I, I don't
know why I just I I vibe withphil.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
He drives a bus, so drove a bus, yeah maybe there'll
be one in the future though newbuses yeah, there's buses maybe
an rv yeah, um, again, I likemr martin's, for the reasons
that we already discussed.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
I, I, I love it because there's so much story to
unfold with that that wehaven't really seen in anything
really.
And also, you know, in in this,in this era, I've also tried to
discover what manhood actuallymeans.
And you know, like I've lived along life of discovering myself

(01:19:18):
and having people telling mewhat I'm supposed to be, and my
whole life I've kind of justrejected the things that they
told me are important, which,which beer I drink and which
sports I watch, you know, andI'm like, well, I don't want to
watch sports and yeah, I canrelate to that one yeah, and I

(01:19:39):
don't.
I don't think that my manhood istied to brand loyalty, so I'm
out, I'm out the window withthat one too, um, but I also
recognize that it is like a partof me too and it's just
something I try to, I try to beconscious of.
So, like his, his journey willbe an interesting one, because
it's it's something that I'malso trying to do is is be more

(01:20:00):
emotionally intelligent.
Um, and then um, grant.
I I see a lot of myself as wellin Grant.
Unfortunately, I think Grantand I would probably get along,
as long as I didn't start, youknow, as long as our

(01:20:20):
conversations weren't toomeaningful.
I could just be like, yeah,farming right.
I could get along with thefarming part of grant too.
Yeah, if we just talked aboutfarming it wouldn't be a problem
.
But as soon as he starts, youknow, with his shitty anything
else.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
Yeah, in this country oh no.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
And then I'd be like well, let me tell you about this
country, and that would be avery bad conversation, and
you're both veterans, so likethat would be yeah, both of you
be.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
You're both veterans, so like that would be yeah,
both of you be like, because youcan use that as clout to a
certain degree.
But yeah, I feel like theremight be some fighting over like
which of you saw worse thingsand some of the weird stuff that
happens with veterans sometimesyeah, um.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
And as for the kids, I was kind of hoping all of them
would just die damn wow, wow,and that was a shock value.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
I would like, as an introduction to dan you, he's
just trying to shock us all wellkids.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
kids are gonna be tough in the apocalypse, like
it's.
You know, like every, everyonehas a role to play in your
survival group and I hope thatthey find their role quickly,
because otherwise eight to11-year-olds tend not to handle
things very well and it's hardto keep them on task, so they

(01:21:45):
tend to be a liability whenthere's flesh eating ghouls
chasing you.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
Dan, as an adult, how much time have you spent with
eight to 11 year olds?
I'm going to call you as littleas possible.
What about you two?
Are you two like, fluent ineight to 11 year old?

Speaker 3 (01:22:00):
Absolutely not no.

Speaker 2 (01:22:02):
Okay, I feel like I'll just go off of my
experience.
I have a nephew who isdefinitely not eight anymore.
In fact, he has a, a kid,another one on the way, uh, and
actually, yeah, I guess he'd be.
wow, this is, I'm so old, I'mlike what yeah, well, my sister
was a lot older than me I wasonly 16 when he was born but
anyways, I took him on a canoecamping trip once and what I

(01:22:23):
learned really quickly was thathe wanted to contribute and he
wanted to be independent.
So I mean, the reality is thisis a really dark thing to say,
but child labor was a thing.
Some states in this country aretrying to make it a thing again
.
Kids, kids can contribute.
I think the question is likehow much should they contribute
and what should they beprotected from, especially in a
zombie apocalypse?

Speaker 3 (01:22:42):
all things we explore .

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
So oh, all right well child labor coming up okay they
are.
They are not the only kids thatwill be introduced, so I'm
super curious if stacy and thosetwo girls come back, mostly
because stacy had a really greatlittle green hair shag
situation that I liked yourcreative liberty on that one
yeah, I was like I just thinkthe green looks good it does we

(01:23:07):
love?

Speaker 3 (01:23:08):
we love the interesting character designs.
There's one zombie that'sappeared twice with a rainbow
sweater, and that rainbowsweater is just one that she
owns.
And it's like, technically, anartist cameo, if you want to
consider it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
Oh my god, you drew yourself in as a zombie.

Speaker 4 (01:23:27):
I couldn't help myself.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
How could you not?
That is wonderful.
So I hate to say that we'regoing to be wrapping up in a
minute because it's been such agreat conversation with you, but
we would love to hear what yourplans are for the comic next,
how people can follow you and ifthere's any way people can
support you, because you arecurrently offering this very
generously for free online.
Yeah, offering this verygenerously for free online.

Speaker 3 (01:23:47):
Yeah, so we are technically going into what we
would consider our second volume, because issues one through
five covered a complete storyarc with Joshua trying to get
the kids somewhere safe, and nowthat he's done that, now we get
to explore different themes.
You can find us under the nameDays Worth Living, the name of
the comic, on Global Comics,nami Kami, and then there is a

(01:24:08):
croatian website that isrecently sprung up called
comcraft, and they are offering,uh, basically another free
hosting website for indie comiccreators.
They don't hold any dc, nomarvel, no image, because they
want to keep the focus onsmaller creators.
And, uh, as of right now, wedon't have any plans to make the

(01:24:30):
comic not free to read.
Uh, the game plan going forwardis going to keep it as a free
online comic, with physicaleditions that will be available
for a paid price, but, uh, it'sa story that we want to tell and
we don't want to pay all thatbehind anyone.
So, as it stands, you can findus on those three websites.

(01:24:53):
You can also follow us onInstagram and Blue Sky under
Days Worth Living, where we postoccasional updates on art
process or finished pages thatwe're very proud of or other
artwork, like you can see someof our Batman characters that we
did interpretations proud of orother artwork.
Like you can see some of ourbatman characters oh, fun, that
we did, that we didinterpretations of on both
instagram and blue sky.

(01:25:13):
But, uh, we have a patreon, butas it as it stands currently
we're not really heavilypromoting that because we don't
want people to assume that, oh,we're artists, so you should pay
us for doing art, which I feellike is unfortunately the common
consensus for a lot of peopleis they see a patreon and then

(01:25:33):
they don't want to support itbecause, well, I'm not paying
for this and we want the comicto, since it's a labor of love
people to enjoy and get to fallin love with these characters
and, in a strange way, fall inlove with the post apocalyptic
world we've built as well.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
Well, we love it and I really appreciate you all for
making that offer for it to befree.
I think it's great when peoplemonetize it and I will certainly
be buying a physical copy.
Slash, if you could make thatone image a poster.
I would love that too.
That can be arranged, and I willjust say like it's an
interesting choice, in a worldwhere people want us to monetize

(01:26:11):
everything, to sometimes not dothat.
And we've done the same thingwith the podcast so far too, and
I think there's somethingthat's like an intangible value
to just offering your creativityto the world.
So thank you for doing that.

Speaker 3 (01:26:22):
Absolutely.
We wouldn't have it any otherway.
Honestly.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
If there was a way, I would make it so that you um
didn't have to worry about moneyand you could just make comics.
I'm, uh, I'm looking for um amagic lamp, so if I find one of
those, I'll I'll save you one ofmy wishes uh, the magic is
universal basic income I'm gonnakeep looking for that lamp okay
I don't know if we're anywhereclose to that in our current

(01:26:50):
reality, but, you know, a girlcan dream.

Speaker 2 (01:26:53):
Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
It was really a pleasure tospend time with you, and I could
I actually have so many morequestions.
Honestly, though, I think thatthey're more like millennial to
zillennial.
What, what generation are y'all?
Gen z, gen z yeah, okay, soyou're full z um, but I'll save
those for another time.
Absolutely we'll.

Speaker 3 (01:27:12):
We'll have to, we'll have to do a reprise.
Maybe at the end of we'll we'llmeet back up like oh, issue 30.
Now that we've established afoothold, now we'll come back
yeah, we would love that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:23):
Then I'll ask you all of my like.
So what was, what was it liketo draw a world where there's no
technology?
When you grew up withtechnology, that's like my
haunting question, but we don'thave to touch it now that you
get that in the future, folks,so come back yeah, thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
Thanks for joining us , but also thanks everybody for
listening to the zombie bookclub.
Um, if you want to support us,you can leave us a rating or a
review.
Uh, we like reviews and ratings.
We love them.
They're delicious.
You can also send us avoicemail with your mouth words.
That would go into our earholes and everybody else's who

(01:27:57):
listens.
That's also possible.
You can leave up to threeminutes at 614-699-0006.
You can also follow us onInstagram Zombie Book Club
Podcast or our Discord, theBrain Munchers Collective, where
there's a whole bunch of people, a whole bunch of podcasts,
writers and all kinds of thingsthere.

(01:28:17):
Links are in the description.
They're always in thedescription Also.
Please sign up for ournewsletter, please.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
Yes, and go read.
Days Worth living.
Yes, it will make your dayworth living.
It will.
That's my cheesy outro for youall today that's my answer.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
That was a good one.
Is that the in the apocalypse?

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
I'll read this comic and that'll be the reason to
keep going exactly perfect andwe'll we'll have to rethink
every time we meet a kid to belike we can do this, we can take
care of this kid in theapocalypse.
I'm like, um, actually okay, Ican take care of this kid in the
apocalypse, but then youwouldn't be contributing to
breaking the trope, dan, I don'tdon't be the reluctant man who

(01:29:03):
looks after a kid.

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
Reluctant father figure be the emotionally open
available man.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
Yes, you can be that I'm over here like all right kid
, I guess I'll keep you alive.
And then, like six months later, it's like I can't live without
you kid.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
That's what will happen.
Do you think you all would be?
As my last official question doyou think you all would be
reluctant caregivers, or wouldyou be, Mr Martins?

Speaker 3 (01:29:26):
Middle of the road, I feel like I'm more in touch
with my emotions, but I'm also.
I have only one sibling andthey're quite younger than I am,
so that's really the onlyexperience I have with younger
children, so it would be alearning experience all around,
I think.

Speaker 4 (01:29:43):
I don't know if I'd be a great caregiver.
I'd want like kids to be keptsafe, but I don't know if I'd be
a great caregiver.
I'd want like kids to be keptsafe, but I don't know if I
could keep them safe.
Yeah, I'd want to be like Icould shelter you, but that
might not be the safest, but Iunderstand where you're coming
from.

Speaker 2 (01:29:59):
If it's a kid that needs a diaper change or like
can't feed itself yet, it'sgonna be real rough.
But I'll try.
Might sound crazy, but the endis not baby bye bye, bye don't
die.
Yes, bye everybody.
Bye everyone bye.

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Days Worth Living with Special Guests Rowen and Erica | Zombie Book Club Ep 93

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}​Days Worth Living with Special Guests Rowen and Erica | Zombie Book Club Ep 93