How to Prepare for the Fall of an Empire | Zombie Book Club Ep 90 - Zombie Book Club

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:20):
Welcome to Zombie Book Club, the only book club
where the book is an empire andthe empire is burning.
I'm Dan, and when I'm notwatching an empire burn to the
ground while playing a violin,I'm writing.
The book is an empire and theempire is burning.
I'm Dan, and when I'm notwatching an empire burn to the
ground while playing a violin,I'm writing a book about an
empire and the brink ofdestruction.
Then people start turning intozombies and it really speeds up
the process.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I thought you only knew how to play guitar.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
I can't play either very well.
You can play the violin,probably.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Okay, well, I just outed Dan the violin probably
okay.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Well, we, I just outed dan.
He's an imposter.
I'm an imposter of a violinist.
I am to the highest degree, asin.
I've never played one before.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
But now you are.
Insist that I can.
Yes, while the empire burns.
I'm leah and I named our dognero after a roman emperor who
burned rome to the groundintentionally, so I think that
tells you how I feel aboutempires.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, Empires are great, aren't they?
We love them.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
They make great kindling when you're winning.
That's true, so much to burn.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
You know if you're trying to start a fire.
It's hard because a lot ofpeople don't know.
The thing that you should dofirst is build an empire, and
then you can use the empire tostoke the embers, to make a
proper campfire, to make a pyre,yeah, funeral pyre of all of
the uh very rich people we can'tsay things like that it's a

(01:37):
funeral pyre.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
I'm not saying how they died yeah, okay, I'm just
saying yeah, that we're it's.
We're honoring their death witha funeral pyre.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
We're going to prison .

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Today we're talking about empires and zombies and
whatever the fuck else.
We feel like Zompires, zompiresyeah, that sounds more fun
Because it's a casual dead.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
It is a casual dead.
We're tired.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, we're tired from a long weekend of resting
and not doing a lot.
Yeah, naps really take it outof me.
Consumed a lot of edibles.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, it's been a good weekend that way yeah maybe
that's why we're so sleepy youknow, this might, this might be
the last week.
I can do that because I gottago back to I gotta go back to
work, which we'll talk about.
We'll get there, yeah, butbefore we get to that, I would
just say we release episodesevery Sunday, so scub, scooby,

(02:32):
dooble, do that's.
That's what Leah wrote.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Subscribe.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, also give us a rating and a review, remember
when I just said subscribe andthen Ali took personal offense
that I literally just said theword subscribe, yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
It's important that we never get it right.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
He messaged us and he was like this is incorrect.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
They were devastated, I think.
Also, oliver, I have an apologyfor you, which is I'm sorry
that I did not tell the SteveUrena of creator of zombie date
night that you are theoriginator of the term zombie,
although I think you needevidence of this fact.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, present your evidence in discovery and then
we will put together a jury andwe'll find out who has rights to
zombie.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Oliver also claims to be the originator of zombie
bestie.
Yeah, I believe that I do too.
Yeah, zombie, I'm not so surewe'll see.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
We'll see in a court of law.
That's right um leah.
Do we have any groans from thehorde?
I see it in our notes we havean excellent groan today.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
We have an elevator pitch today, an elevator pitch
from kayla hick, somebody we'vebeen following for a while.
Yeah, she's joining us in theelevator.
We're going somewhere.
Let's get in the elevator.
This is episode 90.
This is a very tall skyscraper.
Oh, wow, yeah, it is a tall Ithink we should go down a few

(04:01):
floors because I'm afraid ofheights.
Let's go downtown, goingdowntown.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, you know we can go down.
Yeah, we can do that.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Nobody can tell us what to do in our elevator.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
This is true.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Let's go to ground floor, okay, we're going to go
to the lobby.
We're going to the lobbybecause we're going to enter
Kayla Hicks' escape city.
Yeah, on the ground floor, canwe?

Speaker 1 (04:27):
go to the taco restaurant that's in the lobby
of our giant building first,before we go into Kayla's city.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
What if it's already overrun by zombies when we get
there?
Oh, good point, we better checkit out.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, all right, I'm hitting the button.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Okay Well, let's listen to.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Kayla Hicks' pitch.
My name is Kayla Hicks and I'ma multi-genre indie author.
I've been writing since 2014,and my first novel was a young
adult dystopian book called KaleStone Outlier's Tale.
Since then, I have been able tostick to one genre and I've
gone on to publish numerousother books, now totaling up to

(05:06):
18, in genres such as in adult,various sub genres, superhero
fiction and children's books.
I've also made severalappearances around the Lancaster
Pennsylvania area, such asfestivals, schools and even the
rain community chat show.
Escape City is my first horrorthriller young adult book.
It's not something that Ithought I would ever write, but

(05:27):
with my love of zombies, Ireally want to try to give a go
at it.
It's highly inspired by thingslike Westworld and Army of the
Dead.
I love the Walking Dead, soanything zombie.
Oh, and Shaun of the Dead isone of my top favorites.
So all of these kind ofinfluence this book in some way.
But I kind of felt like therewas a little bit of a gap for
young adult audiences, so Iwanted to give Escape City a try

(05:51):
.
So what is Escape City about?
In the glittering world ofsocial media, five affluent
influencers Noah, josie, rue,jackson and Naya are accustomed
to luxury and attention.
When Noah, heir to an amusementpark empire, invites them to
experience his family's newestventure, escape City, they
eagerly anticipate a thrivingzombie escape room adventure in

(06:14):
Las Vegas.
But Escape City isn't just anamusement park.
It's a living nightmare.
As the simulated experiencespirals into chaos, the friends
find themselves trapped in adystopian city overrun by the
undead.
What was supposed to be a gamequickly becomes a battle for
survival as they navigate deadlychallenges and unravel cryptic

(06:34):
puzzles to escape, with thelines between reality and
illusion blurring, their oncecarefree lives crumble in a
world where every decision couldbe their last.
Will their friendship andresourcefulness be enough to
survive the horrors lurkingwithin Escape City?
This book also includes somespecial features.
In the very back I've alsoincluded a survival guide that

(06:56):
kind of gives readers a specialsneak peek of how they could
survive their stay in EscapeCity were they to book it for
their three-day stay.
I also have a short story inthe back called when the Game
Plays you, which also gives aperspective for the readers from
one of the employees'standpoints, jen, who they meet
later in the book.

(07:16):
You follow Jen and herco-worker Brandon as they start
the Escape City stay with thefive influencers and show how it
progresses from the employeestandpoint and how everything
goes downhill.
Thanks so much for listening tomy little bit of a talk on
Escape City, which releases onJanuary 31st.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Kayla, that's awesome , wow.
But I'm now very afraid to getto the ground floor.
I think we've just arrived.
Can we hit the button where thedoors close?
I don't want to go out there,oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
I don't want to go out there.
Oh yeah, I don't, I don't wantto go to escape city.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Read the book.
Yes, go there.
No, I mean I might go.
Yeah, yeah, check it out.
I like the idea of affluentinfluencers being the main
characters.
I'm really curious to see howthat um influences the way that
they function.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
That definitely sounds like there's potential
for comedy.
Yeah, you know, like like shotof the dead, one of the
influences of of this.
It's just like kind of normalpeople, normal friends, going
out into the world.
But affluent influencers arehilarious on their own.
Just the concept of them, thefact that they exist in the

(08:26):
world, is sorry to all theaffluent influencers, listening
right now do we have anyaffluent?

Speaker 2 (08:31):
if we have an affluent influencer, I'm gonna
create a patreon just for youlike, like people can we'll have
the affluent influencercategory.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah oh, so they can give us money, yes.
Okay, I thought you were goingto raise money for them.
No, I was confused.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
No, they're already affluent.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
I'm saying share the wealth.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
I thought you wanted them to be more affluent.
Did you not hear my intro?

Speaker 1 (08:57):
I don't know.
I thought maybe you just wantedto just burn it down.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
I also have to say writing since 2014,.
18 books, Kayla, that is wild.
Yeah, that's more than one peryear.
Yeah, how?
That's a lot more than one peryear.
It's been 11 years.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah, and Dan's working on book one.
Everybody has their own style.
Some people are prolific.
Yeah, it sounds like Kayla,you're one of those people.
We would love to have you onthe show.
It's been a long time coming,so let's talk about escape city
soon.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Let's, uh, let's, let's get that, let's get that
popping yeah, kayla, come talkwith us.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
I also heard that you were a library kid and uh,
libraries are awesome, so weshould talk about that too.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, let's talk about libraries yeah, library I
went to had a lot of marblelions outside the front.
That's a very fancy library,it's?
Yeah, I mean that was the.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
That was the watertown library, that was the
big library if we were going onthe weekend the library that I
went to as a kid was basicallyone small room and, like it, uh,
kind of had double wide vibes.
I'm not really sure it was very, very humble, the woodville
library, but I loved it there.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
The library that was actually in my small town was a
shed that was rotting, oh, andnobody actually worked there.
Were the books also rotting?
I don't know.
I mean, there were books inthere, but it wasn't like a
place that you could actuallycheck books out of.
I'd have to learn more about it.
It's kind of a weird situation.
That is a little weird.
Yeah, it's like technically alibrary in name, but like if you

(10:24):
went there there'd be a padlockon the door.
It's weird.
I think it's mostly a storageroom for books.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
This is very odd.
We have a great library here,yeah, hey.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Leah Uh-huh Life updates.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
This is like when my colleagues ask me how my weekend
was and I'm like I don'tremember.
I'm in a state of pretty muchconstant dissociation right now,
playing katan.
Yeah, that's, that's what I'vebeen.
I live in dissociation nation,yeah, and then I've been doing
some things that I can't talkabout on the podcast, like what
nefarious things you're doingnefarious things no okay, other

(11:02):
things other.
No Okay, other things Otherthings Wink, wink, wink.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Oh, that answers everything.
You can cut that part out.
No, I Leah.
Yes, dan, I unfortunately amgoing to be going back to work.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
I know because I've been having a lot of nightmares
about you leaving me and I'mpretty sure it's because I know
you're going to be leaving me.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, for work, I'm leaving you for work.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Wow, I never thought that would be the third in our
relationship.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, it unfortunately becomes that way
because of the nature of work.
I hate work, all right.
Why do I have to do it?
I don't think it's fair.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Because, empire baby, I don't think it's fair.
Because, empire baby, you gottawork.
You gotta work to make thatmoney.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
you gotta work to make your boss richer it's true,
and my boss needs to be richerso that he can I don't know hang
out with cool rich people.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I mean, we know that he does, that he does, yeah, we
know that he's part of thecircle of the people that have
horses around here, one of thembeing, yeah, the very rich ceo
of a company.
I probably shouldn't say,because then maybe one day this
would get back to them somehow,and I'm not going to do that
because vermont is two peoplewide.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Oh, well, I'll just cut that part out.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Okay, I don't think we named any names.
We're okay, but it is very sadthat you're going back.
Yeah, um, how are you feelingabout it?
Are you any part of you excitedto go back to work?

Speaker 1 (12:22):
no, um, I don't, I don't even know when I'm going
back, like I I was given areturn to work date, but that's
always just kind of like thishinging uh concept, um, so I I
don't I've actually gotten anytype of message you got a text
from your boss being like do youstill want to work for me?

Speaker 2 (12:42):
And you're like, yeah , yeah, I guess so.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Begrudgingly.
And then he sent me a video ofhis new Rivian electric pickup
truck that he chained to one ofthe other people that works at
our shop His big truck.
And then they did like a tug ofwar inside of the garage.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
So my boss is very responsible yeah, and he can
afford a rivian electric truck,yeah electric truck and he
couldn't afford to play tug ofwar with it.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool cooperative.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, take it over, dan, take it over.
This is your time seize.
Seize the means of production,the riffian, the company.
Oh, seize it, take it.
Yeah, do communist things.
I'm just joking.
I would never be a communistunited states government this is

(13:43):
all.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
I'll just cut that part out.
Yeah, um, yeah, it's a bummer.
I you know I could be goingback to work in three weeks.
I could be going back to worknext week, I don't know.
I have no idea at this point.
And it sucks because I don'twant to go back ever, but I have
to you have to because it's apart of our financial plan yeah,

(14:06):
and also because there'snothing else I can do yeah, do
you know?

Speaker 2 (14:10):
I just got a quote speaking of our financial plan
to be debt-free.
I just got a quote for ourdriveway, to get our driveway
fixed thirty five hundreddollars wow, yeah, that's a lot,
it is, let's not let's just letit get worse.
Yeah, okay, okay.
So, um, what impact do youthink this is going to have on
the podcast?
You being back to work?

Speaker 1 (14:31):
oh, it's gonna make it hard.
Um, I know that, you know, lastlast year was when we decided
to go two episodes per uh, twoepisodes per week.
What I meant to say was, uh, anepisode per week instead of an
episode every other week.
And, um, you know, I I justthought that we would do that

(14:54):
for the winter, but then we justkind of carried it on through
the summer season, yeah, whenI'm at work, and we made it work
, but it's a lot also lastsummer was like the birth of all
of like becoming more of aninterview show.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
And so that's sort of my biggest concern is like we
really really love talking toy'all out there who are indie
authors and creators, and weknow our listeners really enjoy
it too, and I've tried to readevery single thing we've talked
about it.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
And I'm having anxiety that that is no longer
going to be possible, with youback to work on a bi-weekly
basis.
Yeah, yeah, that that part willhave to slow down quite a bit.
Yeah, um, yeah, it just sucks,like you know.
Work this is, this is theproblem with our current system
is that there are so many peopleout there that have so much
creativity, so much talent um,not not to say that I'm one of
them, but there's people outthere that have so much
creativity, so much talent Notto say that I'm one of them, but

(15:52):
there's people out there thatif they didn't have to claw and
scrape and scream into the voidevery single day just to survive
, they could be creating somereally amazing things.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
I bet you that's a lot of people listening right
now.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
I bet there's at least a handful.
I would love to know, folks, ifyou had universal basic income
and your basic needs were caredfor, so you know, you had a
place to stay, you got foodevery month, you got your basic
stuff, you got health care, whatwould you do?
Where would you spend your time?
Would you still be doing thesame thing?
What would you do differently?
I would you spend your time.
Would you still be doing thesame thing.
What would you do differently?
I think it's an interestingquestion to ponder.
We were talking about it as afamily, actually with Simon this
weekend and I was like I thinkthat all the jobs that nobody

(16:33):
wants you should be likeextremely highly paid.
It should be reversed from whatit is today.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, and you know, I had a small amount of hope that
I could get there, because I'ma veteran and I have a lot of
injuries and I was on thepathway to getting to 100%
disability.
So right now I'm at 50% and Iget paid a certain amount, but
it's not enough to live.
So I still have to work, whichis fine.

(17:01):
I love getting thatcompensation.
Most of my adult life I gotnothing getting that
compensation.
Um, I had, you know, most of myadult life I got nothing.
And now they're like you'rebroken enough, here's some money
.
Yeah, this money will helpthose injuries.
And I'm like oh, thank you it.
Does you apply it directly tothe injury?
Is what you do Just rub themoney into your back shattered?

(17:27):
Yeah, I like to coat it in athin layer of icy hot and then
kind of like plaster it along myback.
That's what I do.
Anyways, you know, if I got to100%, then I could, you know,
potentially quit my job andshould, because that's kind of
the idea behind 100% disabilityis that you are 100% incapable
of providing for yourselfbecause of your injuries that

(17:48):
you've sustained yeah, and thisis where I think I said this
before in the podcast, but I'mgonna keep saying it because I I
think it's important for peopleto know that while dan is
working, he should not beworking yeah in the traditional
way of the 40 hour work week,plus with his job, yeah, um,
because it is physicallydamaging to you every time you
get in that truck.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
So there's that dread too.
It's just like knowing.
For me, it's like knowing thatyou're going to come home every
day in pain, um, and that you'regoing to need the weekends to
basically just sleep yeah andheal yeah, and I apologize to
any guests we're about to havein the summertime.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah I'm a I'm a special kind of delirious in the
summertime, yeah, yeah, so I'dhad some hope that that would
happen.
But of course, you know, ifyou've been paying attention to
what's been going on with thegovernment, you would know that
the VA is under attack,literally under attack, by the
administration.
Right now.
They're trying to justcompletely destroy it.

(18:44):
Um, that's their goal.
Not to replace it with anything, just make it so that it
doesn't work anymore andveterans now have to pay for
their treatment out of pocket.
Um, you know, I I imaginethere's a plan for just stopping
benefit payments to veterans aswell.
Pensions they probably want toget rid of pensions.

(19:05):
Yeah, also, that billionairescan just get a nice tax refund
this year.
That's the whole point.
A tax refund for a group ofpeople who, historically, don't
pay taxes.
Yeah, which is hilarious.
Maybe they'll report someearnings this year just so that
they can get their big taxrefunds.

(19:26):
Uh, but yeah, so that's up inthe air, like the like I'm.
It's not gone yet, but I don'thave a whole lot of faith that
it will stick around.
So, like, I was hoping thatthat would happen and then I
could do all the stuff here athome that I want to do yeah,

(19:47):
instead of, you know, killingmyself 60 to 70 hours a week.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
I'm really sorry you have to go back.
Yeah, but this is why you knowI got to say obviously, like
jobs, I have some level of fearabout my job just because of the
state of the world, not becauseof anything.
At my job Specifically, I thinkwe're actually pretty well
positioned, but that doesn'tmean things can't change like.
This is a really clear realityjack that anything can change.

(20:12):
But if things go well, if wepay our debt off, then we can
scrape.
We can scrape by.
We just have to get rid ofanything fun in our lives.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
But I think it would be worth it for you to be home
yeah um, and then we woulddefinitely need a patreon for
the podcast we've been told thatwe should have a patreon and
like part of me is like, yeah,that sounds great, but also I, I
don't really I've.
I've liked that this has alwaysjust been a free thing that we
do me too um, wow, this, uh,this life updates has really

(20:42):
gone down a heavy down a rabbithole heavy times to go.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, well, we're also making emergency exit plans
to leave for canada it's.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
It's true, um, you have to have a plan.
Like we don't want to leave.
No, we have a house, we haveall of our stuff is here, our
bed's here, yeah, yeah, but, um,you know, the us is showing
itself to be more and more andmore dangerous every single week
.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Um, and like, of of the groups of people who are in
danger, uh, we're the safest,for sure, so, uh, so we, we have
, we have that luxury, we havethe privilege of being able to
wait it out and see where it'sgoing, yeah, and the privilege
to have the option of being ableto wait it out and see where
it's going, yeah, but and theprivilege to have the option of
an escape hatch, which mostpeople don't yeah, most people

(21:29):
don't, but uh, but it issomething that that, uh, that we
think about because, likethere's, there is a possibility
that there is a time where it'slike we gotta go, or who knows
what will happen to us I think alot of people are in this place
because this is a friend ofmine, actually, this last week
that I was talking to it's likeI feel like we need to be
prepping, I feel like we need tohave like food stores and be

(21:53):
thinking about buildingcommunity and like do I need to
go buy a bunch of toilet paper,leah?
And I just looked at her and Iwas like, yes, yeah, I think
what I'm hearing from a lot ofpeople is like yeah, also,
that's great, assuming you havepower or are part of the
municipal water system, thatit's still up, but it will be

(22:14):
useful.
Um, but anyways, I thinkthere's a lot of people I've
heard this refrain is like am Iright to be this scared?
And I'm going to tell you yes,you are um.
And if you're asking yourselfthe question, am I right to be
this scared?
I'm going to tell you, yes, youare um.
And if you're asking yourselfthe question, am I right to be
this scared?
I'm going to imagine thatthings have not happened to you
or someone you love directly yet, um, but I think we're all
watching the news and we all seewhat's happening and, um, I

(22:37):
don't want to leave this countryat all.
But if I have to, I will,because that's an immense
privilege that we have an optionto.
But right now I still want tostay.
But it's really scary torealize free speech is dead and
like one of my big life updatesis um.
For those of you who've beenfollowing me for a while, you
know I got my citizenship lastmay and I was really excited
about it because I was going tobe able to go protest again.

(22:58):
And now I'm like um.
You know I didn't go to thelast two because I wasn't well
enough that you went to um, butI really want to go to one.
But then I also think, like Idon't know, that my citizenship
really means anything very muchright now.
I think the fact that I'm whiteand english speaking will get
me a lot farther than mycitizenship at this time.

(23:19):
But if I'm going to, if I putmyself in a position where I'm
actively and openly dissenting,all they have to do is prove
that something on my citizenshipwasn't 100% correct, basically
yeah, or just say that I'm anenemy.
They can do whatever they want.
I mean.
that's why we're seeing peopledoing whatever they want and so
it's pretty fucking scary andwe've been talking about this

(23:40):
shit on the podcast for a longtime, been talking about this
shit on the podcast for a longtime, um, and I'm choosing to
still keep talking about it,even though I think there's some
for all of us.
There's some risk in speaking upand I think that's why we need
to keep doing it, and evenlouder, especially people like
me, who have some degree of risk, but not anything close to many
other people.
Yeah, um, but yeah, I, I knowit's bad.

(24:02):
You know it's bad when you'relike you learn your brother's
getting married and then youthink, fuck, I've got to cross
the border to see his weddingand that is scary and I I the
whole point of gettingcitizenship for me other than I
want to stay here and I lovebeing here is mostly that the
border is always fuckingterrifying when you don't have
citizenship, even with a greencard.
It was stressful, it was reallystressful.

(24:23):
I had just a work visa and itwas awful when I didn't have
anything and I was just visitinga lot.
So that's my dark life update.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, life updates right now are pretty dark.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Well, I have one bit of good news Eric of inaugural
zombie game show 2023 game show,eric is coming to visit us,
yeah, in april, and that isgoing to be an incredible light,
uh, in this dark time, so I'mvery excited to see him.
Yeah, that will be exciting andwe're hoping to record an
episode with him here.
So there will be some kind ofshenanigans episode coming for

(24:56):
you all yeah, um, I have some,uh, a little bit of writing
update.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
You know this is coming out a week after, but we
did an April Fool's.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
We did, and I already feel bad about it, even though
it hasn't happened yet, as ofthis recording.
So we're recording this onCesar Chavez Day, labor rights
organizer.
That is a federal holiday thatBarack Obama, when he was
president, put into place.
Most people don't seem tocelebrate it, but my work's
awesome, so I have it off, andthis coming week is April 1st,
so when you hear this, it'll belike the first Sunday of April,

(25:35):
and I'm sorry, this was my idea,I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Leah literally just started asking me questions
while recording me with herphone while I was just a few
edibles in, yeah.
And then we had the bright ideahey, what if this was an April
Fool's joke?
What we're talking about is avideo on Instagram.

(26:02):
I should say that.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, if you haven't seen it, go watch it Now.
You know it's not true, butyou'll still enjoy it.
It's funny.
Yeah, and for the persons thatI'm not having any other names,
there's a few people that I knewwere gonna be really devastated
by this.
I'm so sorry.
I want you to know that oliverencouraged us to do it.
Yeah, it's all, and activelycontributed.
Yeah, it's oliver's fault.
Oliver, ollie eats brains.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
For those who have not, uh, heard of ollie eats
brains before, you should gocheck them out, yeah um, but
yeah, since, since we prankedeveryone, I feel like I I should
give an actual, real writingupdate.
Yes, uh, first thing is that Isubmitted a few chapters to
megan, who is uh starting up aum, she's she's doing some

(26:46):
freelance work as an editor.
Hmm, um, laforma designs onInstagram.
We'll put a link in the shownotes.
Um, I did.
I, I asked Megan, and here'sthe thing about Megan Megan is
very, very, very humble,extremely humble, and uh, and
said that she didn't want me tofeel like I owed her anything by

(27:12):
giving her a shout out, but Iwant to give her a shout out
because she worked really hardfor free.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
And did a great job.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, I haven't been able to go through all of it,
but she gave me a lot to gothrough, so I'm going to be
going through that in the nextcouple of weeks.
So I have a few chapters thathave been edited by the very
professional, megan, and if youare also looking for editing,
you should give Megan a message,say, hey, you still doing that

(27:45):
thing.
I imagine at some point she'llwant to be paid money for it.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
So jump on in quickly .
Yeah, and she understands thegenre.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, she's a member of the book club.
That's the big thing and that'sthe thing I'm most excited about
is that this is a person whounderstands the zombie
apocalypse.
I don't know if we did anepisode about this, but I've had
a long-standing belief that ifyou look at the zombie
apocalypse medium it doesn'tfollow the same beats as a

(28:14):
normal, you know 15 beat, 3xstory.
There are things that a zombieapocalypse fan is going to
expect differently than, um,than than your typical, your
typical novel that has dragonsin it.
Um, you know, one of the one ofthe things that I noticed right

(28:35):
away.
I'm like, wow, the all thoselost moment happens right away,
right at the beginning, and thenit's kind of just an upward,
upward momentum for quite awhile.
You know it's.
It's kind of just an upwardmomentum for quite a while.
You know it's very different.
So like having somebody lookthrough your work that
understands that this isdifferent from everything else
will probably save a lot of timehaving to explain that to an

(28:58):
editor.
That's just like, yeah, I don'tunderstand the appeal of this
story, it's not my thing, butyou know, you should make it
more cohesive in these areas.
And it's like, no, you don'tunderstand the appeal of this
story.
It's not my thing, but you know, here's you should.
You should make it morecohesive in these areas.
It's like, no, you don'tunderstand.
So, um, I think, uh, I think, Ithink that's going to be pretty
good.
Whenever I've got more to gowith, I'm definitely going to

(29:18):
reach back out to megan and uhand get get the full, the full
package yeah, and withoutrevealing anything about your
book, she gave you some reallygood advice, but one part that I
know has had your wheelsturning yeah, yeah, there's
definitely.
There was something like rightat the very beginning and I'm
like am I being too heavy-handedwith this?

Speaker 2 (29:39):
and megan was like yes and that's the sign of a
good editor, realness, yeah, oh,an editor is going to tear your
heart out.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
That's, that's a sign of a good editor Realness, yeah
, oh, an editor is going to tearyour heart out.
That's.
That's the truth of the matterand the the way that I look at
it is that I, the measure of mycompetence as a writer, is my
ability to have my heart rippedout by an editor and be like
those are some good ideas.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Just so you know, Megan Dan was not crying, no, he
was actually like that was areally good point and I really
like the suggestion she made,which is a I want to say it, but
I can't yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, well, we'll probably talk about it at a
later point In the future.
You know what?
I'll just say that I had a verydirect, direct character in the
very beginning who was veryclearly Trump.
Oh, you're going to say it.
I'm just going to say itbecause I'm going to change it
now.
Okay, based on Megan'ssuggestions.

(30:37):
Megan had a lot of really goodideas, so I'm going to go with
that and kind of rewrite thevery beginning, the prologue, if
you will.
That's what they call it,that's what the kids call it the
prologue.
But yeah, I mean, luckily, likeI didn't.
I didn't, I was kind of likegambling with that part because

(30:59):
I knew I could rewrite it at anymoment.
The most important point wasthat, like, that was my
opportunity to put out a lot ofinformation without having it to
you know, reveal it overseveral chapters yeah you know,
I could just have somebodythat's talking like a fucking
lunatic.

(31:19):
So I'm gonna find a new way todo that, but yeah, but you know,
megan told me what I needed tohear, and that's, that's the
important thing.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
It is, and this is the part where I get to tell you
that Megan doesn't likecompliments.
So, megan, just Megan, you dida great job.
This leads us to our mainfeature for today's, casual Dead
, something that you suggested,dan.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I suggested this.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
So you may have noticed that we use the word
empire quite a few times in ourintro.
We're going to talk about howto prepare for the fall of an
empire based on lessons fromhistory, and it's created by.
It's a thread on Instagramcreated by at traumatized
underscore thriving, but it'salso a collaboration with the
General Strike US, which is agreat organization we'll talk
about.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, I signed up for the General Strike.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Me too.
Yep, yep, they need a lot more.
Maybe we'll talk about.
Let's talk about that now.
First, what's the generalstrike, dan.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
The general strike is basically basically, this is a
union for everyone.
It doesn't have any dues oranything, but what they are
hoping to do is to get 11million people to say yes, when
you declare a general strike, wewill all go on strike.
We're going to shut down theeconomy because there's a,

(32:36):
there's a belief that there's a,a rule.
Um, I want to say it's like thethree percent rule it's
actually re.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
There's been research that shows us three and a half
percent of the population.
When three and a half percentof the population strikes, they
have never failed to bring aboutchange and I think this is
going to be important.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
And at first I was afraid to put my name on a list,
but then I I thought about itand I realized my name is
probably already on 10 to 15other lists too.
So I'm going to put, I'm goingto sign my name up to this
general strike and when the timecomes I'm just going to be like
all right, boss going on strike, no hard feelings, nothing

(33:15):
about you, but I got, I got.
I'm not coming to work, yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
And there's really good information on the website.
We'll have it in the show notesabout.
Just like there's really goodinformation on the website,
we'll have it in the show notesabout.
Just like you know, people asklike how long will this go on
for?
Could be a day, could be up toa month.
Typically, the folks who putthis together are pretty well
researched in how these thingshave worked elsewhere, and so
they have a framework for that.
But it's also decentralized.
You can start your own generalstrike chapter in your community
, something, dan and I have notdone yet.

(33:41):
But just to give you a contextof like some real evidence of
how they know this, this threeand a half percent of the
threshold of a populationactually matters.
Here's some examples In 1986,millions of Filipinos took to
the streets of Manila inpeaceful protests and prayer in
the people power movement andthe Marcos regime folded on the
fourth day.
Wow yeah.
In 2003, the people of Georgiaousted Edward.

(34:03):
Oh no, I didn't look at thisperson's name, so I apologize,
edward, although I guess three,the people of georgia ousted
edward.
Oh no, I didn't look at thisperson's name, so I apologize,
edward although I guess youweren't great because you've
been ousted.
Edward sounds like an asshole.
Edward shivar nazi through thebloodless rose revolution in
which protesters stormed theparliament building holding the
flowers in their hands, and in2019, the presidents of sudan
and algeria both announced theywould step aside after decades

(34:24):
in office thanks to peacefulcampaigns of resistance.
Those are just a few examplesfrom a BBC article that the
General Strike US websitereferences, but I'm down for it.
I mean, I think the big thingto prepare for is to maybe just
be like how can I make sure thatI can survive for at least a
week, yeah, without working?
And they also answer questionson the website about, like well,

(34:46):
am I going to lose my job?
You know, like, what are myprotections?

Speaker 1 (34:49):
and actually you have the right to strike yeah, it's
true, you have the right strike,you have the right to protest
yeah, so if you inform them thatyou're you're not like, I'm not
, I'm going on vacation withoutconsent.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
If you say I'm, I'm part of this strike, they cannot
fire you.
Yeah well, I they can, but theycan't legally fire you.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
It is a right to work state.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
So yeah, I think again this comes down to like if
you're in a position withenough privilege where you know
that you could do that, you canmake that discipline stance and
probably still keep your job, oryou can make that stance and
you know that you can haveenough supplies on hand for the
last, for a few weeks.
Please join us.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, it probably won't last for a few weeks.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
please join us.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, it probably won't happen for a very long
time.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
They started the website in 2022, after Roe v
Wade was overturned.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Wow, yeah, yeah, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
So, yeah, it is going to take a while, yeah or not,
right?
That's why we're spreading theword about it, or not?
Yeah, we'll put a link in thedescription, make it easy peasy,
but in the meantime we shouldall be preparing for the fall of
an empire.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, because that's what's happening.
How do you prepare for the fallof an empire Leah?

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Well, lucky us, we have somebody who did some
research and wanted to share.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Is that me?
Well, I know you don't like toread, so I can read.
Oh, no, I'm okay with reading.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
So okay, yeah, um so little known fact.
Every empire in history hasfallen.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
No one knew that before us now, you know,
including the person who wrotethis.
Yeah, it came as a completesurprise.
The person who wrote this, theytyped it and they're like whoa,
really, but yeah, so, uh,obviously, the ones that are
still um, that are still around,just haven't fallen yet, but
they will.
History has shown us that everyempire falls, and this one is

(36:36):
next, the one that we are inright now.
We're in an empire.
If you don't know, leah, do youwant to tell people what an
empire is?

Speaker 2 (36:43):
I need to Google that Wasn't prepared for this really
important question.
Well, dan, I was not preparedto uh give you a lecture today
about empire.
There's a really great bookcalled empire by hart and negri
which talks about this empire,but it's actually referring to
the broader global empire ofwhich the us is a part, um,
which is essentially reallywealthy people, plutocracies

(37:06):
that we're in, like the unitedstates, um, but basically an
empire.
According to the britannicaencyclopedia I just googled it,
I just searched it one day Iwill stop say googling, one day
it will be gone from my um thing.
And, by the way, I actually didnot google it, I used duck,
duck go uh is a major politicalunit in which the metropolis or
single sovereign authorityexercises control over territory

(37:29):
of great extent, or a number ofterritories or peoples, through
formal annexations or variousforms of informal domination.
That's the official descriptionof an empire.
Oh, yeah, so we're in an empire.
Yes, because the united states,since basically world war ii,
has been the dominating force,both within its own borders,

(37:49):
obviously, but globally, like,for example, um the world bank
and the international monetaryfund, which are responsible one
of them is responsible basicallyfor um ensuring the markets
don't totally go off a fuckingcliff and everything falls apart
.
And also for um, supposedly.
This is all a lie.

(38:10):
I would just like to say butthis is how they talk about
themselves that they are helpingum develop nations who need
their support through thesethings called structural
adjustment programs, which areloans which essentially get the
country to open up all of itsborders, um, and get rid of any
tariffs, and then rich peoplecome in with their companies and
destroy any local industry.
That was there previously fun,yeah, anyways, these are two

(38:32):
major institutions that rule theworld.
The united states has, uh, themost voting power in both,
because it's vote per dollar,not vote per person or group or
state, and the united nationshas no teeth.
Let's be real, that's true, itit's it.
It hasn't had teeth, probablyever, but I think it was crystal

(38:54):
clear to me back in 2001, after9, 11 and then when I think it
was was it 2003, when war wasofficially declared?
Dan?
in iraq yeah, yes, in 2003, andwar was declared and the united
nations said that's a war crime.
We do not vote for you toinvade iraq.
And the united states did itanyways, and there wasn't shit
they could do.

(39:14):
And bush can go to any countryhe wants to in the world and
he's not going to be arrested asa war criminal.
And we see it happening rightnow with israel, where netanyahu
is also, um, through globalsystems, been named a criminal,
a war criminal, and it doesn'tmatter.
Yeah, it doesn't matter becausehe's he's backed by the united
states, so we have a lot ofpower in this country and we've

(39:35):
heard a lot of people, um, andso, yeah, it's about to fall.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
I think we've all felt it as millennials this like
impending doom of like knowingthis can't, this can't last
forever you know, I wonder if ifpart of our obsession with the
zombie apocalypse our entirelives has just been that we've
just been seeing how this isslowly going down and where it's
heading and also kind ofwishing it would.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
That's the hard part.
You know that there could be abetter system.
You know the system that wehave now harms people, but you
also.
It's.
The hard part is like you knowthat there could be a better
system, you know the system thatwe have now harms people, but
you also.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
It's the one, you know, yeah, yeah, and it also
benefits some people aka mewhite person.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Um, so it's, it's uncomfortable in that way, and
there's a really greatorganization called whiteness at
work and they had a webinar afew weeks ago about the poly
crisis, which is what they'recalling.
We're in right now wherethere's just like intense crises
constantly happening over andover again.
And the world is feeling veryunstable, specifically for

(40:37):
Americans, in a way that we havebeen exporting that instability
elsewhere to prop up our wealth, particularly the wealth of
obviously the really, reallyrich people.
I think it's often soberingwhen people come here for the
first time from other countriesand think, like this is the land
of opportunity, and thenrealize that, like, most people
can barely afford their rent.
Um, but that was a randomtangent, yeah, about empire.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Well, um, good news, leah.
Uh-huh, this empire iscrumbling, rocking.
Well, are you ready?
I think it's good.
Are you ready, leah?

Speaker 2 (41:08):
See, that's the thing is that I know something
different is needed.
I just will keep saying it.
I think it's too bad that thisis how it's happening.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
It's too bad.
It's how it's happening, butthe reality is is that collapse
was inevitable, but destructionis also transformation.
Yeah, and this thread is areally great resource to think
these things through.
We'll also put that in the shownotes.
But the very first quote on thesecond page is those who
survive aren't the wealthiest,but the ones who build strong,
interdependent communities.

(41:36):
So how do we prepare?
What has worked before and whathasn't?
Let's break it down.
Yeah let's break it down, leah.
All right, dan, do you want toread the next slide?

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, what does collapse look like?

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Oh, there we go.
See, why did I have to defineanything?
This is much better.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
It's not just a sudden event like a zombie
apocalypse.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Maybe that's why we like it because it's quick and
it's over, instead of this horseshit.
Well, this one is where peopleare questioning themselves like,
should I be worried?

Speaker 1 (42:07):
And I horse shit.
Well, this one is where, like,people are questioning
themselves, like should I beworried?
And I'm like, yes, yeah, youshould be worried, but yeah,
it's not just a sudden event.
In fact, it's already happening.
So here's some things to lookfor if you are questioning
whether or not you are in acollapsing empire, uh leah, do
we have hyperinflation andunstable economies?
oh, yes, we do, yes, we do yeah,um, I don't know how much food

(42:29):
and water shortages we haveright now, but I feel like we're
looking at a lot of themdepends on who you are.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
People have been living without access to um
grocery stores in theircommunities for decades.
Yeah, because of the foodapartheid.
And water shortage too, where,like you have to, you can you
pay your water bill or not.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yeah, how much water are you going to get access to?
There's the people in Flint,michigan, whose water is
flammable Exactly.
There's the people who liveoutside of the data centers that
have been recently built inTexas, who don't have any water
pressure and the little waterthat comes through is like a
murky brown shit that camedirectly from the facility.

(43:08):
So, yeah, water is like a murkybrown shit that came directly
from the facility.
So, yeah, water shortages, I'mI think I think we're gonna see
a lot more of those, but theydefinitely exist.
And, um, yeah, if you live in a, in a in a city that's like a,
uh, a food desert, as they callit uh, you know, all it takes is
a few missed, a few missedtruckloads and you'll be feeling
it yeah, I mean a lot of.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Uh, it used to be called food deserts.
Most recently folks are callingit food apartheid, because
there are these.
There's like a clear divisionof places that can will have a
grocery store where there'saccess to things like vegetables
and fruits and fresh foods, orjust convenience stores, and is
anyone going to be surprisedwhen I say that that is along
racial and economic lines?
So, even as an example of wherewe were living before, there

(43:50):
used to be a Kroger, which is amain grocery store chain in the
South, in downtown Augusta,which is also where there's a
lot of poverty and a lot ofblack people live, and they got
rid of that one.
So if you don't have access togood transportation and can
drive 15 to 20 minutes, you'regonna get your food from the
convenience store you know whatI love?

Speaker 1 (44:11):
uh love seeing that we'll probably talk a little bit
more about uh later in thispresentation is a lot of urban
farmers, especially in placeslike atlanta, a lot of, a lot of
black urban farmers that aregrowing food inside of cities
because they recognize howlittle power you have over your

(44:32):
situation when you don't haveaccess to fresh food.
Yeah, so they're taking alittle bit of that power back by
growing food in their backyards.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
I love urban agriculture.
In fact, my mom shout out to mymom she's taking her entire
front yard and making it into agarden.
That's great and I love that.
I think that makes her cool.
Yeah, this one feels verypertinent for our times
Increased state violence andsurveillance.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, yeah, I've been feeling that a lot lately.
Yeah, a lot of my anxiety comesfrom this bullet point.
What I hate about the stateviolence is that it's it's
sanctioned.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
You know it's, it's okay that's why it's called
state violence that's a goodpoint um, let me remind you that
war is state violence.
It's sanctioned violence.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah and, uh, it very much feels like the government
right now is at war with its ownpeople and that's a scary thing
because I've been on the otherside of the war fighting machine
and I know what it's capable of.
That's scary.
I know what it's capable ofwhen we were following the rules
.
Yeah, I can't imagine whatit'll be like when the rules no

(45:46):
longer apply.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Ie now well, yeah, now we're in a state where if
you dissent against, uh,israel's genocide of the
palestinian people and you writeabout it in a paper, you can
get detained yeah uh, if youhappen to be an immigrant and
you can have a perfectly legalvisa.
There's been a lot of examplesof that recently, where people
with all of the right paperswhich I want to remind you are

(46:12):
fucking so hard to get okay, sothis is not making it any more
acceptable with those who arenot documented or getting
deported or detained andmistreated.
I'm just saying that evenpeople play the rules, play by
the rules.
They're still at risk, yeah, um, and hence why I am a little
scared again knowing that I havemore privilege than others who
are immigrants, but that still,that makes me think like, oh,

(46:33):
yeah, I mean, really, the only,the only uh factor that they're
taking into account is whetheror not your skin is white.
Yeah, yeah next was internet andpower grid instability.
Again, this is an example likedepends on who you are and where
you are.
We've talked about HighlandPark, michigan, which is in the
Detroit area.
Literally, the power companytook their lights away because

(46:59):
it was a poor neighborhood andpeople were having trouble
paying their bills, so theirsolution was let's just remove
their power.
So this community had to cometogether and create their own
solar microgrid, basically tosurvive.
So if you haven't experiencedpower grid instability, I
wouldn't say that you are not atrisk of experiencing the same,
especially as things become moreunstable.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, texas experienced a lot of power grid
instability Good point Due to alot of decisions made by texas,
but also that's like a goodexample of like how that's going
to go down.
It's like there's going to bedecisions made that we don't
have control over and that'sgoing to affect whether or not
we a have electricity or b if itsuddenly costs us like ten

(47:42):
thousand dollars a month forelectricity because they just
decide to hike the the ratesyeah, which is all connected
back to climate disaster.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Uh, which I don't.
I do we even need to talk aboutthat.
Have anybody watched what'sgoing on lately?

Speaker 1 (47:55):
some.
Some people probably don't knowabout climate disaster yet well
again.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
If you haven't been impacted by it yet, that means
you're lucky, essentially atthis point, because even here in
beautiful vermont, we have hadlots of climate disasters two
years of major flooding anddamage in a row.
There's a hurricane a few yearsback.
That's something unseen.
In vermont we had an ice stormliterally this weekend, lost
power and had an electrical firein our neighborhood.

(48:21):
Um, actually, while uh,recording an episode with rowan
and Erica for days worth living,which you'll hear about soon,
the power went out midway.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yeah, luckily we record on a device that has a
battery backup, and our, ourInternet also has a battery
backup.
Yeah, so that's cool.
We were OK in the dark, but OK.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Yeah, if you haven't, we've already.
We've had wildfire, smoke here,we've had a drought here.
It's already not great, yeah,and it's not going to get better
.
Sorry to bring that news andVermont is a pretty good place
when it comes to climate.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
So, like the fact that those things have happened
in such regularity, like thefirst two years that we were
here was a drought, yeah, andthen the following I don't know
about the following year, but Iknow the like the last two years
we've had floods.
We've had three floods massivefloods, yeah, that like took out
destroyed towns yeah, destroyedtowns like wiped out entire

(49:18):
roads.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
they started having nightmares of our house sliding
down the hill and like fallingbecause of how wet everything
was, which obviously didn'thappen, but was clearly a
response to watching the rest ofthe world get flooded.
But I like this last littlestatement here.
It says ignoring the signswon't stop them from happening,
but collective preparation willsoften the impact.
And this is where I say againto you if you're going about
your daily business, you'regetting your morning cup of
coffee, you're going out forlunch with friends, you're going

(49:39):
to work, you're listening tothis podcast while you're doing
your workout or something, Idon't know what you do when you
listen to this podcast, doingdishes, and everything feels
like it's kind of normal, and sopart of you is like oh, I think
it's okay.
It's not okay.
We need to prepare.
We're not okay.
And the things that we're aboutto suggest, that are
evidence-based from this thread,are things that we should all

(50:02):
be doing anyways, to the degreethat we are capable, and I know
that it's a lot to ask whenwe're all really busy, but, as
always, it's all.
It's about picking one.
Just try and pick one or likemove towards it in some way yeah
, also this, uh, what we'regoing to talk about next.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
um, I mean honestly, as, as zombie fans, we already
know these things and uh, andit's what we, it's what we dream
about at night, so it shouldn'tcome as any surprise.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Yeah, every single one of these is a theme in a
zombie apocalypse story.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
So, uh, actually, the next thing is what let's talk
about what hasn't worked?
Yeah, um, when it comes tosurviving a crumbling empire,
first one hoarding resources.
This comes up a lot in zombieapocalypse fictions.
Like I gotta get all thesupplies.
I'm gonna go there with myshotgun to the CVS and get all

(50:56):
the toilet paper, yep, and I'llshoot anyone that wants toilet
paper too, because I'm notcompeting with them.
That's mine.
I need that.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
It's the panic toilet paper Competing with them.
That's mine, I need that.
It's the panic toilet paper,whereas the preparedness version
is.
Every time you go to thegrocery store, buy some toilet
paper.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
So hoarding resources leads to competition and
violence.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Actually, you know that's a lot of zombie movies,
negan's entire model was tocreate an empire yeah, which
fell by the way it fell, but hewas about hoarding resources.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
Yeah, the next thing relying on which fell, by the
way, but he was about hoardingresources yeah, the next thing
relying on the state oh, I'm atfault for this one, because I
was hoping the VA would comethrough for me and provide a
more comfortable life.
So the systems of powerprioritize themselves, not you.
Yeah.
So yeah, like depending onthose systems.

(51:49):
Like sometimes you have to Likethose systems are there for us,
but then sometimes theydisappear and there's nothing
you can do about it.
Scream into the void all youwant, but they're gone.
So you got to find somethingelse that works, ignoring the
warning signs.
I'll be honest, honest.
This last week I have avoidedsocial media like crazy, because

(52:12):
it was driving me crazy.
It was I.
I could not handle all of thebad shit that was going on all
at once.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Our little brains are literally not prepared for this
.
Yeah, and we had our first likedispute I wouldn't call it like
there's no yelling involvedthat we've had in a long time
because we decided to go for awalk around our property because
it finally had no snow and Iwas like, oh, look at this part,
we can build our garden terracein this way for the vegetables.
And dan just looks at me and hegoes what if we have to leave?
And I was like, oh my god.

(52:45):
I was like I don't want tothink about that right now.
Right, which is, am I ignoringthe warning signs by saying I
don't want to think about that?
Are you like?
I think there's a tough balancewe're trying to figure out,
which is trying to be prepared,uh, and also enjoy our lives and
plan for the future we hope for.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Yeah, but yeah, ignoring the warning signs.
Collapse is gradual before it'ssudden.
I think we're at that slopewhere it's becoming a little bit
like the.
We're at the top, where theroller coaster starts to speed
up while it goes downhill.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
But it's fell so fast already.
I want to get off this ride.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Yeah, we're on the Superman ride and it's about to
go straight down.
Yeah, um, last bullet point ofthings that have hasn't worked
individual individualism andisolation.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
No one survives alone we had an entire episode.
This called the myth of ruggedindividuality.
Yeah, don't remember whatepisode number it is.
I think it was 74.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Good job, dan um, yes , people have told us that those
are often their favoriteepisodes, like the rugged
individuality one, the toxicmasculinity one.
We hear about a lot.
Um, I think we got to revisitsome of those I do.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
I think it's a good time to revisit them.
But basically, people, ifyou're doing any of these things
, you're preparing from thisplace of fearsome, fear, fierce
fierce.
Yeah, there'll be a catwalk, uh, from fear and scarcity, and
like if elon musk was a regularperson, these are the things
that he would do yeah becausethat's what he's doing now in
his extreme state of wealth, ishe is hoarding resources.

(54:30):
He is taking control of thestate for his own means.
Yeah, and he definitely is anindividualist yeah, definitely.
So, yeah, don't be like ElonMusk.
I think when you're havingthose moments, you want to get
all the toilet paper that'savailable in front of you at the
grocery store.
Be like would Elon Musk takeall the?
Yeah, I'm not going to take allthe toilet paper.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Fear and scarcity are the enemy.
Yeah, that's what will be thehardest thing to deal with in
the future.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Our entire system is currently set up on fear and
scarcity.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Yeah, it's true.
It's the reason why we go towork.
Yeah, we go to work becausewe're afraid that if we don't go
to work, we won't be able topay for our house, and then
we'll be homeless.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
And you try to accumulate wealth and more
wealth and more wealth, becausewe're afraid that we're not
going to have enough one day.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Yeah, one day we're not going to be able to get any
more wealth and we'll have tojust live off of the gold that
we piled up in our basement.
Tasty gold nuggets, goldnuggets.
Let's talk about what hasworked in the past and honestly,
this is my favorite listbecause it gives me hope.
Um, local, community-lednetworks uh, these would be

(55:46):
things like creating mutual aid,bartering, skill sharing, uh,
trading um, this is somethingthat I've not been super good at
.
I've I've always been reluctantto people.
Yeah, that's trauma, yeah, butyou know what, here on the

(56:06):
zombie book club, we've alreadycreated a community on the
internet, so this communityalready exists, um, and then all
you have to do is just applythat to more things.
You need more communities.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yeah, the same friend who I was talking to about
toilet paper and whether or notthey should be scared was the
same friend that we made a planto start having survivor parties
not the TV show, but we'regoing to have like little
gatherings where it's for fun,but then somebody gets to share
a skill that they have.
And the first thing she says tome is, like I don't think I
have any skills to share.
I'm like, think about it alittle bit more.
Yes, you do.
Yeah, yes, you do.

(56:39):
Just you might be surprised atwhat that is.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Yeah, and you know, I'm seeing a lot of the skill
sharing already happening on theinternet, like on Instagram,
for example.
The video I'm thinking of is aguy that teaches mixed martial
arts and he says to not punch aNazi.
Yeah, because, you know, maybeyou're out of shape, maybe

(57:04):
you're not very strong, maybeyou don't want to break all the
bones in your hand, but you dowant to hurt the Nazi somehow,
right?
Yeah?
So what he suggests is the kickstop, and what that is is
kicking somebody directly in theknee until it goes backwards.
Oh, oh, ow.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Yeah, so he's skill sharing, you know, and he's
doing it in a an approachableway, something that everyone can
do For a much more lovely one,which is Alexis, which is at the
Black Forager oh, pretty mucheverywhere who freely shares how
to forage and what to forage.
That too, yeah, that's morewhat I was going for, but I
guess you know.

(57:46):
If you need to kick a Nazi'sknees in, yeah, then do that.
Yeah, there's all kinds of waysto to share skills food and
water sovereignty, growing, foodlearning, foraging, water
purification no, all of theseare things that you're going to
need to do in a zombieapocalypse.
Yeah, and would be helpful todo now, which is why I was
talking about planning ourgarden and dan was talking about
escaping to canada, and we hada moment where we were like

(58:08):
which one are we doing?
Because right now, I'd reallylike to just plan the garden.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Yeah, I think this is super important because you
know, like the list said before,one of the things that we'll
notice when everything'scrumbling is food scarcity and
there's going to be so manyhungry people.
And if you can build communityand also grow food and maybe

(58:35):
everybody in your community isalso growing food, maybe you
don't have a very good growingsummer your community can step
in and help you and then you canhelp them in a later season
when you are better at growingthings.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Yeah, I also like that.
It's got foraging here.
If you want to hear more aboutthat, we talk about it in.
Can Vegans Survive theApocalypse episode?
And water purification reallyan under um thought about thing?
I think I don't.
I don't read a lot of likestuff in zombie apocalypse books
or movies where they talk aboutgetting sick from the water or
water purification in general.

(59:09):
We have a life straw on hand,um, I have a really fancy pump
that I can stick into likeswampy water and get clean water
out.
Doesn't taste good but it'sgood and we're very lucky to
have a well, but it is importantto know how to how to clean
your water yeah, um, and there'sa lot out there that you can,
that you can follow for that umI've, uh, I've been building a

(59:30):
vertical hydroponic grow farm.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Uh, I've been 3d printing it with my printer.
That gives me a certain amountof relief.
It feels like it feels like I'mbecoming more prepared with
each piece of it that I print.
It takes an insane amount oftime to print a whole one and
and, uh, you know, I'd, I'd love, I'd love to be able to print
just a whole bunch of them, butit's gonna take a lot of time.

(59:54):
I'd love to be able to printjust a whole bunch of them, but
it's going to take a lot of time, unfortunately.
But I'll put it out there.
If anybody doesn't have muchgrowing space and they need to
grow some food let's say youhave one square foot area and
you need a solution for that Icould possibly print you one and

(01:00:16):
send it to you.
If you're in need and this isthe community part yeah, yeah,
let us know.
If you need one, send me somefilament, that's all I need Some
.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
PLA and it's much cheaper.
These systems on the internetare like wildly expensive.
You'd need a bucket and what isit?
Like a water.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Yeah, expensive, you'd need a bucket.
And what is it like?
A water, yeah, so I I can printalmost everything except for um
a, the silicone hose that goesin the center.
Uh, a little fish water pumpfor pumping the water up through
the the hose.
And uh a uh like a regular fivegallon bucket that you would
get at like tractor supplier umsome other place.
That's not horrible.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Runnings is the one in our neighborhood that at
least we can't figure out whothey donated to.
So that's at least nice yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
All the Shonzo, right , I'll get Ace hardware.
Ace hardware, yeah, I'll get.
I'll get an Ace bucket, um, butyeah, I figured I'd put that
out there.
If you are in need, I canpossibly put aside the time to
do it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Well, to be frank, if you're in need and you can't
afford food, you should justreach out to us.
Yeah, if this is going to bethe difference between you
eating or not eating, please letus know.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Well, this is about preparedness.
Yes, this is a different thing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
It is and I don't know who's listening.
It is and I don't know who'slistening, so just want to offer
that help.
Decentralized energy solutions,solar, wind, water powered

(01:01:51):
energy alternatives this is ahard one because if you don't
have a lot of sun moreimportantly, if you don't have a
lot of money, this one can behard to do.
Just, you know, uh, go online,go on duck, duck go or some
other search engine that youlike mojique, ecosia, at least
plant some trees and search acommunity solar program and then
, like in my neighborhood or inmy area, and you might be
surprised that you couldsubscribe uh for your power to
come from solar and a solarmicrogrid instead of from your

(01:02:13):
typical supplier.
Uh, and that is one way youcould contribute to that kind of
a world.
And if you have your own homeand you have sunlight on your
roof relatively regularly I meanhere in Vermont it's very
effective, even for us Right nowand it's looking like it's one
of the things that's going tostick for a while there is an
incredible 30% tax credit forputting solar on your house, for

(01:02:35):
getting heat pumps, for gettingbattery storage.
All of these things are possible, more possible financially now
than they have ever been.
And I would say, if you canafford it, do it now, do it
while you can, while it'savailable, because these things
definitely don't feel veryguaranteed in the longer term.
And you can also get.
I'm not saying people should gointo debt, but if you're afraid

(01:02:56):
of the initial upfront cost,you can get loans where
basically they figure out howmuch your power needs are and
what your power bill is, and thecost of the solar is
essentially the same as whatyour typical power bill would be
, and so there are ways to dothis even if you don't have a
ton of money.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
Yeah, and with inflation going the way that it
is, you know, if you spend like15 grand on a solar system, that
might be like your futureminimum wage salary what the
terror is coming through.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
I mean, the reality is most solar panels are coming
from overseas, particularlychina, so that's great.
So, yeah, do this now also getlumber now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
Sidebar uh, let's move on.
Okay, this next one I like alot because it's exciting
Indigenous survival knowledgeLearn from communities that have
resisted empire for generations.
There's so much knowledge outthere that you can get, and this

(01:03:52):
includes a lot of knowledgethat our society has kind of
kept us from the idea thatmedicine comes from nature, the
idea that you can go into thewoods and find food.
Yeah, I remember talking tosomebody and they were just

(01:04:14):
realizing that where they livedin LA, they walked past a lemon
tree and they just realized thatthe lemons that grow on the
tree are the same as the lemonsthey buy in the store, like
there's no difference.
You can pick a lemon off thelemon tree.
It's probably tastier, it'sbetter, it's absolutely better
than what you buy in the store.

(01:04:34):
And then they're just like yeah, I didn't know that, they just
grew, I never thought about it.
And that's the type of thingsthat our empire has tried to
erase from our minds, becausethey want us to pay for that
lemon.
They want to monetizeeverything, including lemons

(01:04:55):
that grow on trees.
They want you to not know thatthe lemon tree is out there.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Yeah, they want you to think you have to buy water.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Yeah, yeah, that's going to be the next big thing.
You want clean water.
You're going to have to pay forit and then, after that, air.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
I mean, that's already true in a lot of places
with water.
Yeah, cooperative economiesthis is what I was referring to
for you, dan.
Try and convince your boss torelease the means of production
and let it be a worker-ownedbusiness, wow, where everybody
shares the profits.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
I don't think it's going to go for that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
These are real businesses.
There are businesses where theowner wants to retire and they
decide to let it be aworker-owned cooperative.
This is a thing that people cando.
You can say, if you're thebusiness owner, let's change
this, let's make it acooperative, so everybody
benefits instead of just oneperson.
Barter systems, resourcesharing I think what's missing
here is the gift giving economy.

(01:05:48):
The original way that humanstook care of each other was
through gifts and it was notabout an immediate exchange.
Bartering is about decidingthat my woven blanket is of
roughly the same value as your.
What are you trading with me?
Three duck eggs, three duckeggs.
Not very vegan of you, butwe'll go with it.
I would say here let's mock it.

(01:06:09):
I don't agree with that.
I think I need three duck eggsplus two ducks to make this a
worthy trade.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
You're going to take my ducks.
Yeah, how am I supposed to getthe eggs?
I'll give you five duck eggs,but no, you're not getting a
duck.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
Okay, ten duck eggs and you can have the woven
blanket.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Okay, seven and a half duck eggs.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
I'll settle for eight .

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
All right, you got a deal.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
That's bartering right, also not very fun.
Some cultures are really goodat bartering, but I didn't learn
how to do it very well,although I think I just did win
there.
Maybe I guess that you bothfeel like you've won if you've
done a good job.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Yeah, a successful business arrangement is one
where both parties leaveunsatisfied.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
I disagree.
I think both parties shouldleave satisfied.
But my point is that barteringis a negotiation and there's an
instantaneous transfer.
Gift giving is about communityand it's about saying hey person
, I noticed that you could usesome blueberries, here's some
blueberries.
And that is when you, when youjust offer something without an
immediate exchange and likeanticipation, they're going to

(01:07:13):
give you something back.
That is where you build trust.
And then that person, when theysee it's raspberry season and
they go get raspberries, we'relike you know I think I'm gonna
share this with jill, who gaveme blueberries and, uh, gift
giving economy is the originaleconomy yeah, I, uh.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
I watched this guy on on instagram and I always
forget what his name is um.
But if you look, um, if youlook up project stardew, he's
building a shed, an off-gridshed.
He's a cool guy.
Um makes great videos, uh, andone of his most recent videos he
has so many eggs.
Because he has chickens, he hasmore eggs than he could ever

(01:07:49):
possibly.
He has 19 dozen eggs.
Whoa, that's too many.
And um know, in the world thatwe live in, you would think, oh
well, yes, you got to start upan egg stand and make money off
of those eggs in this time ofegg shortages.
You know you could charge $6 adozen for those eggs and people

(01:08:11):
would be glad to pay it Him.
On the other hand, he says, no,I want to give these away.
I'm giving them to my friends,to my family.
He's still going to work.
He's going to work at some bigbox store that he makes, minimum
wage, basically, and he'shanding them to his coworkers
like, hey, you want a dozen eggs?
I have so many eggs, here'seggs.

(01:08:32):
He's giving them out to thepeople that he knows.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
I'm resisting the exploitation of the chicken.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
Yeah, there's that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Um, I don't yeah but metaphorically I'm okay with
this.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Yeah uh, but I guess if he didn't get rid of the eggs
he would probably go fromhaving 20 chickens to like
having a hundred chickens no, hecan feed the eggs.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
the eggs back to the chickens, because they've been
selectively bred to create somany eggs so frequently which is
not what they're supposed to bedoing that it is depleting for
their bodies and might soundcreepy, but they love to eat
their own eggs.
Yeah, also, you could just givethem to the Ravens into
wildlife.
They'd be happy about it too.
That's true.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
But I was.
I was more about thisgift-giving economy thing, I
know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
As an example, my internal vegan had to ruin it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
Yes, you make good points and, as a fellow vegan, I
concur.
Okay, so history shows us thatthose who center cooperation
over competition are the oneswho rebuild.
And this makes me feel so good,because I don't want to be in

(01:09:38):
competition with my neighbors.
I don't want to be like as muchas I want to build a Mad Max
monster truck and wear spikes onmy shoulders and a coat made
from old winter tires.
I don't actually want to likestarve my neighbors out and like
threaten them every time I needto go, uh, collect some pine

(01:10:01):
cones to make a pine nut hummus,you know yeah, even our most
annoying neighbor just doneenough nice stuff for us that I
would take care of them if theyneeded it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
Yeah, it's true.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh, there's real life lessonsfrom past empire collapses to
learn from.
These are just a few that thisthread goes through.
Um, there's not a lot of detailhere, but obviously you could
dive into this if you're curious.
But you know, I think you couldprobably think about your
favorite zombie shows, and a lotof these things are what are
happening in.
The communities are succeeding.

(01:10:31):
So the fall of rome, people whobuilt local governance
structures survived best.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they figuredout how to connect and govern
themselves.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
I admittedly don't know a whole lot about the fall
of Rome, but recent events havemade me want to learn.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
I think it would be interesting to spend more time
learning about those things.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Yeah, the Great Depression.
Who knew Our current empire hascrumbled multiple times.
Yep, Worker cooperatives andmutual aid sustained entire
communities.
Yeah, there was.
I mean the Hoovervilles.
They called them the littleshanty towns where people lived

(01:11:09):
in shacks and tents becausethere was no money and they were
just kind of like travelingfrom place to place trying to
find work.
They called them Hoovervillesbecause of President Hoover, who
they held solely responsiblefor the economy.
Yeah, they were just giant tentcities basically, where people

(01:11:30):
lived and they governedthemselves because nobody else
was looking after them, so theyhad to take care of each other.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
Yeah, Indigenous resistance.
Many indigenous nations havesurvived genocide and settler
colonialism by preservingland-based knowledge and
communal care Again, bigreminder.
That might be feeling a littlebit like the apocalypse for
folks like us who have beendoing okay for a while, but the
reality is this country wasfounded on genocide and the

(01:11:59):
transatlantic slave trade andslavery and slave people.
So there's lots of folks whohave lots of practice with
resistance, indigenous folksdefinitely being one of them.
And I think what's interestingthere is do you know what land
you're living on and whosetraditional territory you're a
part of?
Have you learned any of theircultural practices that are open
practices they're willing toshare?

(01:12:19):
It's worth learning.
I have a great book.
It's an Anishinaabe wisdom book.
The book is called Plants haveso Much to Give Us.
All we have to Do is Ask, andit's Anishinaabe botanical
teachings.
Anishinaabe people were thetraditional land stewards and
continue to be the land stewardsof the place where I grew up,
and so that's why I got thisbook, and it's a really

(01:12:41):
beautiful and powerful book, andthere's lots of stuff like this
available at your local libraryright now to learn about the
people who have cared for thisland for time immemorial and
might have something to teach us, I don't know.
There's a a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Speaking of community , you can start with your local
library.

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
Yeah, I think the other thing to say that it's a
time of figuring out what thingsto protect and hide and what
things to say out loud and topush back on, because a lot of
the traditions of native folkson this continent has survived
because they've had to protectthem and hide them, and so,
again, like I think it's reallyimportant to practice things

(01:13:16):
that have to learn things, andpractice things that are openly
shared and respect the ones thatare closed, practices that
you're not invited to, so you'llknow if you've been invited or
not.
You will.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
Yeah, I think the the important thing to remember in
all of this is that you don'thave to start from scratch.
The blueprints have been left.
Yeah, there's.
There's information everywhere,and it's not just you know the.
You know there's a lot ofindigenous knowledge out there.
There's also a lot of knowledgefrom people in our past who

(01:13:50):
have had to live this way aswell.
You know to live this way aswell.
You know there's people in WestVirginia who have, who have
kept up with the traditions oflike hunting and trapping and
fishing and living off of theland, because West Virginia has
been kind of fucked for a reallylong time.
Yeah, because it's a.

(01:14:12):
It's a resource extractionenvironment.
Because it's a resourceextraction environment, you know
they're not selling their coaland making money from it.
They're just going to the coalmines, making their whatever
wage they agree to, and thendying from lung cancer, yeah.
And then the coal is goingsomewhere else, it's being
extracted.
So they've always had a hardtime in those areas, so they've

(01:14:39):
kind of kept a lot of their oldknowledge yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
I like looking back to our ancestors the most, and I
mean our ancient ancestors,because it's a good reminder,
first of all, that we're allhere because other people made
it through some really difficultstuff, stuff that we probably
can't even imagine and we don'teven know about because it's not
in history books.
And also, the United States ishow old.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
Like 250 years.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
Yeah, it's a little baby.
Humans have been around foraround 200,000 years.
We've been doing this for awhile.
Empires have only been aroundfor a few thousand years.
This is a bunch of bullshit.
Anyways, we can survive.
Well, let's return to some ofour more um, nature-based and
nature-connected ways yeah,let's talk about some, some

(01:15:24):
strategies for, uh, for beingprepared.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
This is kind of.
This is kind of like a littlelittle review, little review
time.
Yeah, um, first one foodindependence Grow your food.
Forage.
Start growing if you can Learnhow to forage.
There's a lot of informationout there.
It's something you have topractice at and start today.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Learn one thing you don't have to learn it all Learn
one thing yeah, because youalso have to remember that
you're one member of a community.
So if you're really good atforaging, maybe somebody you
know is really good at foodpreserving which is why the next
one, building communitynetworks, is so important.
You don't have to be able to doall of these things.
I just want to say that You'llbe able to do a few things and
then share them with the peoplearound you and they'll help you,

(01:16:07):
like Simon is excellent atpreservation.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
I don't have to do all this yourself, no, you know,
uh, you just have to find yourcommunity, and your community
has to, has to look out for eachother yeah, start your own
little survivor parties or dowhat.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
I wish I could remember who it was on the
internet that I saw was doingthis, but I love it, which is
like have a party and then belike surprise, we're all
learning how to preserve foodnow.
Or surprise, we're all learninghow to secure our phones so
that we can protect ourselvesfrom the surveillance state.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
Yeah, there's one thing that I want to say about
like learning how to preservefood and like things like, um,
like canning food, right?
Um, I think I've, like I'vetalked to a lot of people about
canning food and I've found thata lot of times the mentality is
like yeah, once, once my gardengrows some cucumbers, then I'm
going to pickle them in a, incans, and you don't, I don't.

(01:17:11):
I would say that don't waituntil your garden is grown
before you start learning how topreserve, because it is a
science and you can literallyjust go buy cucumbers at the
store and do a crash course andlearn how to pickle them Before
you spend two or three monthslooking after plants and

(01:17:33):
fighting you know, fighting offslugs.
Yeah, you want to know how todo it before the time comes.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
Plant something that the slugs like better than what
you're trying to plant to grow.
Yeah, marigolds, I have a wholebunch of them that I'm hoping
will sprout.
We'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
I just learned that recently.
Marigolds are a sacrificialplant.
You plant them in your gardenand a lot of the pests prefer to
eat the marigolds, so they'lleat the marigolds and leave
everything else untouched.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
I didn't know this.
Now you know why.
I have a billion seeds in somedirt right now and none of them
have come up yet.
But hopefully some will,because it's still got time Also
.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
apparently, the seeds of marigolds are hallucinogenic
.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
Really.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
I learned that when I was in high school.
I haven't tested it.
I think we should.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
Let's eat some marigolds.
I think we need a mom, though,to take care of us.
Who is not, who is sober?
Yeah, who can?

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
drive us to the hospital and be placing
ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
Back to more useful skills.
Learn off-grid skills.
Like we said water purification, solar power I was talking
about all the big systems, butyou can buy little systems.

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
yeah, you can buy something small water
purification could literallyjust be buying iodine tablets
yeah, I'd recommend somethingmore than that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
Yeah, because that will only last you till your
tablets run out, but it's a goodstart.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
Yeah yeah, um, you know, collect, collect rainwater
.
You know there's some Statesthat it's illegal to collect
rainwater and to those States Isay fuck off.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
A lot of those States are are water poor States, and
so it's about collectiveresource of the water, but the
truth of the matter is that thatwater is then being used for
mass growing of food.

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:14):
It's complicated.
That's a whole otherconversation around, but, if you
should, we be living in massamounts of people in areas that
have an aquifer that iscurrently very close to
depletion.
Maybe not.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
If you calculate the amount of of roof surface area
and the amount of rainwater thatlands on a roof versus all of
the land around around, it's notenough of an impact for people
to be like no, don't do it,because you're taking the water
away from the ground.
It doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
It's fucking bullshit I'm not prepared to debate this
with you, I am, I'm ready, I'mready to fight from a broader
size, from a broader societalquestion.
their water rights, especiallyout, are a very problematic
thing, but I still think itoften comes down to corporations
, especially water-hungry datacenters, which are both

(01:20:05):
skyrocketing the need for powerright now all across the country
and overusing water, like youtalked with the brown sludge.
And if you're seeing your powerbill go up, you should look and
see if your state's one of thestates that's encouraging data
centers being there, because doyou want to know who is paying
for that increased need forpower?
You are.
It's getting offset to you, tothe customer.
They're not paying more.

(01:20:25):
So fun facts.
I know because of my job.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
This last one is the one that a lot of people have
been thinking about mostly.
I think it's the scariest one,but it's also an important one,
and, depending on who you are,you might not want to do this
one, or maybe you should, Idon't know.
That's up to you.

(01:20:50):
Resist and reimagine.
Challenge oppressive systemswhile creating new ones.
Resist and reimagine Challengeoppressive systems while
creating new ones, going back tothe very beginning.
You know, this isn't like thefall of empire, isn't about
destruction.
It's about an opportunity torebuild, and that's what I've
got my fingers crossed for rightnow is that, while all of this

(01:21:11):
shit is going on and a lot ofpain is coming, a lot of pain is
heading our way.
My hope is that, when the dustclears, we are left to rebuild
and we make something that wasbetter than the United States
was.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
And that's going to be challenging.
It's going to take everyone, Ithink.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
It may also not look like the United States.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
It could look like something different, which is a
scary thought, but also verypossible States as a political
organization, a form oforganizing people politically
where, basically, the thing thatmakes a state a state is that
there's a territory, ageographic territory, that's
being defended.
Then there's all kinds of waysof having a state have only been
around for around 5,000 years,and the ones that have had the
longest survival rates are oneswhere there's a very long

(01:22:04):
culture and the territoriallines align conveniently with,
like this, very strong culturalidentity.
And when you try to get 300 andsome odd million people to
agree on how to live, I thinkwe're not doing so well.
And again, I'm not saying Iwant the United States to
disintegrate.
I'm just saying we shouldn'texpect it to always look like
this.
It may look different, it mayneed to look different.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
Is that scary to hear , Dan?
Not really.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
It's not scarier than our current situation, true,
not really.
It's not scarier than ourcurrent situation, true?
Yeah, it might mean that wemight live in the democratic
socialist country of Vermont.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Yeah, or the Northeast yeah.
If they call it New England,I'm leaving because I hate it.
It'll be New England.

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
For real.
It'll be New England.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
Well, we're going to fight back against that, because
I don't want to live in NewEngland.
Yeah, it's kind of a stupidname.
Yeah, hey, land back.
That is a real thing.
What if we return thestewardship of the land to its
original owners I shouldn't sayowners, because they wouldn't
call themselves that.
I'm just saying it doesn't haveto be this way.
Yeah, it could be somethingdifferent.
Maybe better be this way.

(01:23:14):
Yeah, it could be somethingdifferent, maybe better?

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
yeah, I'd like better .
Yeah, what would what wouldland back look like?
For most people who aren'tfamiliar with the idea, like,
what are we talking about, um,us white people getting back on
the mayflower?
No, um.
Or are we talking about the,the the nations, uh, the, the

(01:23:35):
the abenaki nation?
Um, setting up their owngovernance over the land that we
live on and then we live underthat?

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
that's closer, um.
So sometimes land back uh,means like a parcel of land.
This is something that even uma good friend of mine did, where
and this is not really landback because she had to buy it
back, but she bought back theland of her ancestors and
obviously a small portion, butlike where her farm was for her
family other versions of landback.

(01:24:04):
The bigger picture is exactlywhat you're saying.
Where these are, lands arereturned to the people who have
stewarded them for generations,much longer than this country's
existed, and then that becomesour political form of governance
and there's little things youcan do towards land back.
Like some places, some nativegroups have voluntary tax that
you can pay for being on thatland to help contribute to the

(01:24:27):
rematriation of the land.
Towards that that tribe.
So and I'm saying tribe becauseI'm in the United States, so
Canadians don't come at me, theydon't call themselves First
Nations here as often.
So this is one description ofland back from the Indian
collective, which is the NDNcollective.
Again, it's just one.
Native folks are not a monolith,but they say that it is a

(01:24:48):
reclamation of everything stolenfrom the original people's land
language, ceremony, food,education, housing, healthcare,
governance, medicines andkinships.
This is their manifesto.
It's a relationship with MotherEarth that is symbiotic and
just where we have reclaimedstewardship.
It's bringing our people withus as we move towards liberation
and embodied sovereigntythrough an organizing, political
and narrative framework.
It's a long legacy of warriorsand leaders who sacrificed

(01:25:11):
freedom in life.
It's a catalyst for currentgeneration, organizers and
centers, the voices of those whorepresent our future.
It is recognizing that ourstruggle is interconnected with
the struggles of all oppressedpeople.
It is a future where blackreparations and indigenous land
back coexist, where BIPOCcollective liberation is at the
core.
It is acknowledging that onlywhen a mother earth is well can
we, her children, be well.
It is our belonging to the land.

(01:25:32):
Because we are the land, we areland back.
So that's like a broadphilosophical statement.
It can also be things likefighting to get the return of
quote unquote federal lands orthere was a pilot, or something
tells me it's no longer inexistence based on how national
parks are being traded, treatedright now, but of like
co-managing land between thenational park and the tribal

(01:25:54):
nation that has a claim to ityeah, all right, I'm, I'm all
for it.
Yeah, let's do it, I think, thething to remember.
Uh, a friend said this to meonce and I think it's worth
repeating now I am pro land back, but that's not because I think
that the systems and the wayspeople lived before the united
states existed on this continentare necessarily always perfect,

(01:26:16):
or better, they're flawedpeople too, with lots of great
cultural attributes, but at theend of the day, we're on stolen
land, yeah, so the right thingto do is give it back.
Yeah, yeah and no, we're notgoing to get kicked out.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
They're not going to put us back on the May 4th.

Speaker 2 (01:26:31):
We're not.
You know.
All the things that we're themost afraid of as white people
are the things we do to peoplealready.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:46):
Detain them and deport them and send them to El
Salvador and put them inhorrible conditions right now
inside the United States.
So like, why are we beingafraid of a group of people who
have never done those things tous when we're the ones actively
doing it to them to us, whenwe're the ones actively doing it
to them, and including tryingto get rid of birthright
citizenship, specifically toattack tribal rights and the
rights of citizens of tribes too, like it's fucked out there
right now?
So, yeah, I'm pro land backwabanaki confederacy in our

(01:27:07):
neighborhood.
Yes, I would gladly pay mytaxes to you.
I think you'd do a better jobyeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
Well, I'm all for.
So just a little bit of review.
Here's the things that don'twork when it comes to surviving
a crumbling empire, hoardingisolation, trusting the state to
save you oh my God, I amtrusting the state to save me.

(01:27:35):
Every week, I'm like they'regoing to save you.
Oh my god I am, I am trustingthe state to save me.
Every week, I'm like they'regonna save us.
Yeah, the, those federal judges, they're gonna.
They're gonna figure it out.
Um, uh, maybe they will, but wecan't count on them to do that.
We have to look after ourselves.
So the things that do work arecooperation, mutual food and
energy sovereignty anddecentralized networks.

(01:27:58):
So you don't do all thesethings on your own.
You do them with a community.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
Yeah.
And if you can't find a club ora community, you can start to
create it.
It can be as simple as beinglike let's all have a party and
then learn how to can something,yeah.
Or if you're not a big fan ofparties, you'll have two people
over and learn how to cansomething, yeah, or you help
somebody out with their garden.

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
Maybe if you help somebody out with their garden,
if they have room for a gardenand you don't, you can help
somebody out with their gardenand maybe they give you a little
share of that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:35):
Let's close with this quote from Frantz Fanon, who we
referenced in our Black HistoryMonth episode a couple weeks
ago.
Each generation must, out ofrelative obscurity, discover its
mission, fulfill it or betrayit.
So what's our mission, Dan?
What is our mission?
To transform what has been intosomething better.
Yeah, Build back better.
I hate to use a Joe Bidenslogan right now, but I'm gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
Yeah, yeah, it sounds good to me yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
Fight fascism, form community.
I think that's the mission ofour generation right now.

Speaker 1 (01:29:06):
It's better than doing scary, dangerous stuff.
Sure, yeah, but yeah, there wego that's.
That's how you prepare for thefall of an empire.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
Have fun while you're doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:18):
Have fun.
Thanks everybody for joining uson the Zombie Book Club.
Kind of a different episodetoday, I would say, but also
kind of right up our alley too.
Yeah, I feel like we've hadsome episodes similar to this.
If you want to give us somesupport, you can leave a rating
or a review.
We love those Helps us outimmensely.

(01:29:40):
You can also send us avoicemail up to three minutes
long, like Kayla did.
The number is 614-699-0006.
You can follow us on Instagramat Zombie Book Club Podcast, or
join the Brain Muncherscollective on discord.
Links are all in thedescription down below.
Also, there's a funny linkthere that says email newsletter

(01:30:05):
that you can sign up for andyeah, be in community with us.

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
We can't we can't rely on the Instagram to stay
connected with you, so thatwould be great.

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
Yeah, you know, there might be a time where we have
internet instability and we'regoing to need to rely on things
that are not like socialnetworks, things like email
maybe, maybe even like a regularmailing list.
Do you want a regular?

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
do you want a letter?
Do you want?
Yeah, I, that might be fun.
Do you want us to send you aletter?
We could, with a sticker.
You want a?

Speaker 3 (01:30:36):
zombie sticker.

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
Now that you're going to have to pay for that.
And don't forget, support yourindie authors.
Go check out Kayla Hicks.
Their website is Kayla-Hickscom.
H-i-c-k-s-k-a-y-l-a.
With a dash in the middle.

Speaker 3 (01:30:50):
We'll be in the show notes.
Also will be the show notes.

Speaker 1 (01:30:52):
Also check out Megan LaFarma Designs on Instagram.
She's also on Discord and sheis looking for people to do
editing work for.
Yeah, so even if you're notfinished with what you're
writing, she'll look at what shegot, like she did with me.

Speaker 2 (01:31:06):
Dan, it might sound crazy, oh no, but the end is
nigh.
Bye, bye, bye.
Don't die.
One day you'll sing it with me.

Speaker 1 (01:31:18):
No, bye, bye.

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How to Prepare for the Fall of an Empire | Zombie Book Club Ep 90

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How to Prepare for the Fall of an Empire | Zombie Book Club Ep 90