'Returned': A Medieval Zombie Graphic Novel with Jason Strutz | Zombie Book Club Ep 113 - Zombie Book Club

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:20):
Welcome to Zombie Book Club, the only book club
where the book is graphic, very,very graphic.
I'm Dan, and when I'm notsurviving a different kind of
graphic horror, I'm writing abook about survivors of a zombie
apocalypse, but also spaghetti.
It was a weird writing sessionthis week.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Did it help that I made spaghetti yesterday?

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
And I'm Leah.
Today we're talking with JasonStrutz, author and illustrator
of Returned, a four-partmedieval horror family drama
graphic novel.
And I had to say that fivetimes, folks, because the
Canadian me kept saying drama,drama, drama in my head, or
drama for your mama.
Drama mean.
Jason is an artist andstoryteller who has worked on
comics like the House ofMontresor, the Deadly Ten and

(01:02):
Good Fight Anthology.
He also illustrates RPGmonsters very cool and heroes
for studios like 2C Gaming andCheckmate and works in graphic
design.
Now Jason is bringing to us hisvery first graphic novel,
returned.
That stars the undead, a knightand a corpse priest.
We are super excited to talkwith you about the first two

(01:22):
chapters or parts of yourgraphic novel returned.
Welcome to the show, jason.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
Thank you for having me Excited to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
We appreciate that, because we had so many technical
difficulties that I'm surprisedyou didn't fall asleep waiting
for us to figure it out.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
I got to sleep in today, so we're good.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
That's perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, that always helps.
I also slept in today and itwas wonderful.
You ever have one of thosedreams where you're asleep in
your dream.
That's how tired I was.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Have you had those kinds of dreams, Jason?

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Have I had the type of dreams where I sleep and then
I dream?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
No, where you're sleeping in your.
So you're sleeping in yourdream.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, like you're in your dream and you're like man,
I'm tired, and then you go tosleep.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
And then you go to sleep.
It's a good dream to have.
Yeah, double sleep, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Double sleep, that's what they call it.
We have some rapid firequestions for you.
Yeah, let's go.
We will be judging you based onthis, so no pressure.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
First question, most important question other than
the other ones, of course youget to choose and your choice is
going to affect everybody onthis planet, because your choice
is between the foray, the 40hour work week or the zombie
apocalypse as to which one Iwould rather uh be in yeah yeah,

(02:39):
yeah, yeah, um, I mean I guessI have to go with the 40 hour
work week because that is bothan improvement probably the
hours that I currently work, aswell as no one's no one's
actively trying to kill me atthis moment, but you know, a 40
hour work week?
Yeah, that I know.
Of that I know.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
How many hours a week do you work?

Speaker 3 (03:06):
that I know.
How many hours a week do youwork?
I don't, I don't count, I don'tcount so much, but uh, it's a
bunch right now.
It's a bunch where we'reheading towards October, so it's
usually my uh busy season anduh have have a bunch of things
that I'm uh working on, randomfreelance stuff.
I do uh work for the uh the Poehouse and museum in Baltimore,
uh, so they're uh Poe festivalscoming up next month, so I'm

(03:26):
finishing up a bunch of work forthem.
So busy, busy times.
And also have my Kickstartergoing.
So, yeah, yeah, hours are.
Hours are very fluid.
Sometimes it's sometimes it's alot and sometimes it's it's
less.
Uh, but if I'm working forsomebody, I generally want to
get their stuff done so I canget back to what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Oh I understand that.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
I mean it does at least sound like interesting and
fulfilling work.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's all good stuff, it's allthings that I want to do, yeah.
So that's an easier questionfor you yeah, yeah, 40 hours
like oh, I can just home andstop and and not think about the
work for a bit that soundsawesome.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, yeah, let's do that.
You know, do you want, do youwant everybody to, to become, uh
, shuffling corpses, um, or goback to the poe museum?
It's a.
It's a little bit differentwhen you frame it that way yeah,
let's go to the poe museum,yeah, yeah let's go to the poe
museum.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Let's all go let's all go to the finish work at
five o'clock and then reach workand play some video games and
all that that sounds awesome,yeah well, sadly it's the zombie
apocalypse.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, you didn't get the poem museum question is not
doing so hot right now or maybeit is, is the museum a good
place to go in the it could be.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
It's, it's, uh, it's very small, uh and uh getting
renovated extensively right now,so I don't even think we can
get in oh well, you know, if you, if you, have a hard time
getting in, so did the zombies,yeah it's true uh, so you got
that zombie apocalypse.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
It's happening.
Maybe you're at the poe museum,maybe not, maybe they didn't
let you in, but what is yourweapon of choice?

Speaker 3 (05:13):
I would say, uh, weapon of choice is going to be,
uh, some sort of blunt, uhblunt swinging instrument, I
believe um, there's a lot ofthem that choose from, like you
can pretty much find themanywhere.
I guess I'm more partial to likea, like a bat type thing, uh,
but does require you know spacearound you to to swing.

(05:34):
Uh, I guess I would also gowith, uh, yeah, some some sort
of other uh like distance,distance causing, causing weapon
, like a long pike, that sort ofthing, so you could just stick
somebody and then just continueto drive them backwards and keep
them out of arm's reach.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
I appreciate the visual representation of
sticking someone that you justdid for me.
No one else can see it.
It was very, very real.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
I do love the choice of a bat, because there's so
many things that you could pickup that were never meant to be a
weapon and also weren't meantto be like, swung in human hands
, you know, like a pipe orsomething, a wrench Though you
could do it, you know if you'rebrave enough but a bat is like
designed for human hands toswing at things really hard.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, yeah at things really hard, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm worried about the impactforce of that, but I, for the
most part, just don't want tocarry around guns and want to
have ammunition that I have tokeep track of and then
eventually it becomes not useful.
In theory, you could run out ofall of the bullets in the world

(06:42):
and then your gun is nothing,and if you haven't developed
your bat skills, then you'reyou're still screwed yeah, you
want to spend that time that youhave all that extra energy from
not starving to improve yourbat skills I have an important
follow-up question, jason,because we are batting two in a
row.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Our last author um last week also chose a bat a
baseball bat Is there a?
Specific kind of baseball batthat you think would be most
effective.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
I don't know about effective, but I think that I
would really like the like bongof an aluminum bat.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
So you're going for the sound.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, yeah, like some people, like the crack you like
the bong.
Yeah, it could, I'm sorry,Sorry, Jason.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
It was a slow burn on that one.
That was Sorry, Jason.
I'm going to repeat it in caseanybody missed it.
Dan just said you chose theWait, you like the crack or the
bong.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Anyway it was not what I was expecting.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Back to the ding-bong of the aluminum bat.
That was so funny.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
We're going to have to talk to a bat expert.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
We are, but this is two for two aluminum bat, and
this is the first time in yearsthat we've been doing this, that
we've gotten this answer, so Ithink it's interesting twice in
a row, yeah, interesting.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
All right Okay.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Something's changed, yeah a more fun topic it's the
apocalypse, still all of thesequestions of the apocalypse, but
in this case you come across ahuge, like walmart level
warehouse that is filled withonly one shale.
I can't speak today.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Shale stable food item is that what you're going
with?

Speaker 2 (08:23):
I'm just leaning in Shelf-stable food item for the
apocalypse.
You have access to it until youdie.
What would you choose to eatover and over again?

Speaker 3 (08:32):
And is this Do I have ?
Can I cook it?
Can I macaroni?
And?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
cheese it.
You can do whatever you want,as long as the thing itself is
technically shelf-stable.
So it's preserved.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, itself is technically shelf stable, so
it's preserved.
Yeah, yeah, it'll be preservedand I can figure out a way to
cook it.
Uh, I would say in that case uh, give me, give me some of that,
um, some of that good ramen,the kind of ramen uh, blanking
on the person's name, but I'vebeen eating this ramen and you
open it up and it's got likethree different things you have
to open.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Oh yeah, it's like making a model kit and then
eventually you end up with ramenwell, you got the, the creamy
packet, you got the spicy pack,and then you get the spicy pack
you get like a little oil packet, you get a little veggie packet
, like that's, that's the good,that's really fancy ramen.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
It's fancy ramen that'll cost you like a buck 50,
maybe two in this economy inthe apocalypse, you going to get
that a lot to trade.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
If you offered that to somebody, they would trade.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
That's a lot, that's a lot and I feel it's pretty
filling.
I feel it's satisfying.
I do Comic-Cons and things allthe time, so I'm always packing
tons of granola bars and nutsand things that I can eat behind
the table, but at some point Ineed something warm.
It must nuts and things that Ican eat behind the table, but at

(09:48):
some point I I need somethingwarm.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, it must be warm food and, uh, I have to go find
something, so that's also agood uh.
Daily amount of salt yeah,it'll give you, your daily

Speaker 2 (09:55):
yeah yeah, have you figured out a way to heat it up
at a comic-con, or is it?

Speaker 3 (10:00):
no, no, I haven't been able to it.
I just have to go to the cafeor something and just buy
anything that's been heated, youknow, chicken fingers or or a
sandwich or something that'swarm.
For some reason, I crave warmfood, no matter how much actual
food I've had.
So, bougie, I need it at leastonce a day, something warm.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
That's.
That's what I uh don't likeabout summer.
Sometimes it's like warm foodisn't always the best food when
it's really hot, and I I likethat cold weather because I'm
like I want soup, soup season.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yes, you are still in this warehouse and the other
thing you discover is a solarpowered dvd player and box set,
just one box set.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
What do you choose to ?

Speaker 2 (10:43):
watch forever yeah, maybe.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Maybe it's like a moot, like a movie box set, or
it's a tv show box show box, adocumentary box.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
I feel like you're looking for one right now I, I
had one next to my table, Idon't need more.
Uh, definitely the the twilightzone.
Uh, okay, yeah, that all giveme, give me all the Twilight
Zones.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, that's a good option because there's so much
variety.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
There's a lot there.
There's variety.
Every episode is different,yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Thought-provoking.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, yeah, teach me not to drop my glasses, it'll be
perfect, yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
Classic.
I have contacts in rightnowason for those of you who
cannot see us.
Aka everybody listening.
Jason is wearing glasses.
It's my worst fear in theapocalypse is going without
sight yes, yes, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
It's a horrifying ending to that episode.
Anybody doesn't know guy uh,apocalypse, he's the only one
left finds a library.
He, he's like, sacrificed hislife, uh and ignored his family
reading, uh, that perniciousevil of reading uh and finds a
library and he's like, ah great,I'm good for a long time.
And then he, he drops his veryshatterable glasses, which I

(11:54):
mean that's not really a thinganymore either.
So uh, but drops his glassesand I assume is is farsighted.
If you're nearsighted, like,it's probably okay, you just
have to hold your book closeryeah if you're far, so I hold
your book further away

Speaker 2 (12:09):
yeah, it would have to be very.
It would have to be like aninch from my face at this point.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
Yeah, exactly me, me too, me too.
It's like it's clear about here, but but I could live in a, in
a library I'm a negative 3.25 oneach eye.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
What are we talking here, jason?

Speaker 3 (12:23):
I, I don't remember, it wasn't that long ago, but
it's numbers.
Could be any numbers and Iwouldn't remember them yeah, I
don't know what those numbersmean it just means bad bad, gosh
too many higher the negativenumber, the worse

Speaker 2 (12:36):
it is yeah, it means if I didn't have my contacts and
I could not read any of thewords on my laptop, which is, I
don't know, 18 inches from myface.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, I've, I've got really great far sight.
And sometimes Leah will be likelook at this thing on my phone
and she puts it right in my faceand I'm just like, ah, my eyes,
I cannot look at something thatclose.
And then and then I have tohold it like an arm's length
away just to see what she'slooking at I think he needs
reading, I might probablyprobably uh, one last question,

(13:10):
dan.
You want to do this one, I meanbefore we get into returned okay
, so I guess this is uh, this isa little bit um, something that
maybe you've thought aboutbefore.
Uh, you have turned into azombie, um, and you get to pick
your first victim.
Who is it gonna be?

Speaker 3 (13:31):
that is.
That is and I have.
I have answers, but I don'tknow.
The fbi is listening we alsohave answers I've got answers,
but how hard do we want to gohere?

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Well, why are they your first victim?
Is it because you want them tobe, you know, to not be around
anymore?
Or is it because you just wanttheir companionship.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah, do I want them with me, or do I want them?
Am I just a means, just a youknow, a means to an end?

Speaker 1 (14:04):
at that point, yeah, how much of them are you eating
as well?

Speaker 3 (14:08):
I guess, yeah, I guess I would probably want to
be more of the means to an end.
So I have to find uh, somebodyaround me that uh, at least I
personally believe uh should notbe doing the things that they
would be doing uh alive.
So, uh, I don't know, let's, Idon't know, let's go find uh.
Let's go find a a uh, a gayconversion camp counselor or

(14:30):
something, yeah, and uh, be likeyou're gonna be better off as a
zombie, like eating, you'regonna convert them they
shouldn't be mad about this.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
It's only fair delicious, or I think that's.
The problem that I think aboutin this scenario is, like the
people that I'd want to eat, Iwould be concerned I wouldn't
find appetizing, because I don'tin this form.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, I mean, I would , I probably would want them
warm, so I'd do some zombiebaking first.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
I could think of a few people that I'd probably
take a bite out of, but thenspit it back out.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, just do bare minimum.
Do what you got to do, then getout.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
I love that.
I was not expecting that answer.
It's a very good one.
I will join you in eating theconversion therapy people.
Well, that is the end of ourrapid fire questions, which
means we get to get into thetofu meat, your main course
choice the fleshy part of ourconversation, which is your
graphic novel Returned.
Can you tell us just a littlebit about it and what you have

(15:31):
published so far, Because weknow it's four parts?
Where are you on your journey?

Speaker 3 (15:35):
now.
So currently part one and twois done and you can get both of
those on Kickstarter.
That runs through the end ofSeptember, september 30th.
But Returned is a medievalhorror, family drama, as the
Canadians might say.
Stars main character Vale.

(15:56):
She's fighting an army of thedead in the beginning of the
book, unfortunately dead herselfby about page 13.
I've got to give you somespoilers because it's just kind
of a big part.
It's a quick turn.
That's just the set, the setuphere.
So she unfortunately diesherself by about page 13.
Spend some time as a bad zombielady till her family finds her,
ties her to a chair and helpsher ghost re-inhabit her zombie

(16:19):
body.
So that comes as a lot of partone.
Part two we have to then escape.
She's been reunited with herfamily, she's been reunited with
her own body and now she wantsto help her family escape the
zombie apocalypse that's goingon, bad in some funeral attire

(16:44):
and a big floating castle thatwe haven't dealt a lot with yet.
So there's some hints of thingsto come and that it gets weird.
It gets weird.
That's a great title.
It can get weird, but the firstpart is just getting her sort of
out of her body.
Her soul, her spirit, is stillattached to her rampaging zombie

(17:07):
body.
She has to watch that processhappen and watch the things that
her body does and then latercome to terms with that a bit
and also try to help her familyescape.
And as they escape they pick upsome classic zombie story,

(17:28):
other survivors and in this casewe can start bringing in a lot
of the suspicion and paranoia ofsomebody here has a secret.
So as we go on, as you knowit's a four-part story.
So parts one and two are outand I do a webcomic release
Tuesdays and Thursdays, a newpage every Tuesday, thursday,

(17:50):
and when that part is done thenI go to Kickstarter to do the
print.
So part one is a 43-page book.
Part two is like 40 pages.
Part three coming up will beabout that same size and then
part four is a little bitshorter so you can read online.
You can read in a much nicerform in a book through the
Kickstarter.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, that was what I would like to have as a
physical copy.
I have been following you onInstagram with your weekly posts
, which I really enjoyed, buthaving something physical is
always just a differentexperience.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
That weekly release is very nostalgic for me, way
back in, way back in the uh, theearly internet days when, um
when also zombie movies werekind of a rarity.
Like you get one or two zombiemovies a year.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
Yeah, there was a.
There's a doldrums they weren'talways good.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Uh, there were a fair amount of um web comics, zombie
web comics that I seeked outwith with fervor, and I would
just be like dying at the end ofthe one page of the week yeah,
yeah, and you know this is along narrative story.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Uh, so the the couple pages a week, you know, isn't
necessarily satisfying, but Ialso want people to be able to
experience the story in inwhatever way they can and
assuming that if they'reenjoying what they're reading,
they're going to want to comeand pick up a book if they can.
And if they can, they cancontinue to read online.

(19:19):
It'll be.
All the parts are availableonline and they'll continue to
be throughout the project.
And, yeah, for the most part,like I need I need more eyeballs
on it than I need to try tolike get a dollar from everybody
who looks at a page.
Yeah, I'd rather have peoplelook at it and enjoy that and

(19:41):
and, and you know, build, buildmore of of that.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
following I really appreciate that.
It's available freely foranybody who uh wants to put
their eyes on it, which highlyrecommend you do.
I actually like looking at itweekly because it gives me a
chance to, um, really look atthe art I am a newer to comics
and graphic novel person, so Ihave a tendency, if I've got all
of it, to just like speed readand then miss.

(20:05):
Yeah, exactly, and um, you'rean incredible artist.
So, like, looking at the art onthe page is really amazing to
see thank you.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Thank you, yeah, it's you know people who who haven't
seen it it's.
It's full color because there'sa lot of color yeah, and the
lighting is incredible yeah I Ireally appreciated like your
attention to lighting,especially with like fire going
on in the yeah, yeah, I really,uh, I I enjoy that stuff.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
It's it's a very hybrid uh workflow in that I'm
I'm uh doing all the layouts andand everything on my uh
computer and I print that outand then do ink wash using a
light box, so every page has aninked page.
And you can actually check thatout on my YouTube channel at
Struts Art, where I have timelapses of making pretty much all

(20:59):
the pages that are currentlyout and that goes through the
inking and the coloring of eachpage, and then I take that and
do the coloring back in thecomputer.
And that kind of gives me a lotof flexibility there, both in
terms of how it looks as well aswhere I can work, because I can

(21:19):
take that coloring work on myiPad to my weekly drawing event
and work on it there or at thelibrary, or take my daughter
somewhere and she's got to dosomething and sit and do a
little bit of work.
So it gives me some freedomthere.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
That's nice.
I was going to ask this later,but I feel like now's the
perfect time, which is thatyou're a work at home dad, which
I'd love to see.
How do you balance it all?

Speaker 3 (21:41):
How do you balance it all?
Well, so it's certainly gottenbetter since my daughter's been
going to school.
So she's 12 now, so she'sdefinitely going to full-time
school.
But this project started backwhen she was in half days, so
I'd get like three hours orsomething to myself, so I used a

(22:02):
lot of that time in writingthis script or something to
myself.
So I used a lot of that time inwriting this script, and she
was going to be going tofull-time school in the year.
School year 2019 to 2020 washer first year of full-time
school.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
And I was like I should have something to work on
.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
I need a book to work on.
I need to hit the groundrunning, yeah, and, as you know,
that didn't turn out quite theway.
I became a part time teacher'saide, keeping her online and
everything.
So project pushback a few times, but that was.
That was good in terms ofgetting the script where I

(22:36):
wanted it to be.
It's funny how that works,having editors read through and
it's fine and it's fine.
But that balance can be can bestressful.
Certainly when she was youngerand home all the time, it was,
you know, finding finding theplaces to work.
Either it's during a nap timeor later at night, or that when

(22:59):
it was not, you know, notneglectful to just sit there and
do some drawing, and it was not, you know, not neglectful to
just sit there and do somedrawing.
But I would, if I was workingdigitally, like I could just
have her sleeping on my, on mychest and I could draw with the
other hand, so that that thatwas OK.
And then, yeah, so my, my, mywife, would come home from her

(23:28):
job and and hang out with her atthe at that time.
But yeah, now she's, now she'svery self-sufficient and I'm
mostly driving her places andhaving to wake up early now for
her new school getting used tothat.
But yeah, for the most partit's making dinners and driving
people places.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
I love that and I'm happy for you that she's mostly
independent.
I we don't have kids, but if Iwas going to look after a kid,
it would be.
I would require said kid to bepotty trained and able to use
the microwave not that Iwouldn't feed them you

Speaker 3 (23:56):
know.
But like I want that level ofskill, yeah, you want, you want
to get to that level and that's,that's a fine place to be.
Yeah, that makes that makes ofsense.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
But it sounds like you were raising two passions
Not to call your kid a passionproject, but you had two
passions you were balancing yeah, absolutely, and are still yeah
, yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
And I wanted to keep that moving and have some
progress going.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
while that was part of my life, it's a big part also
you've, I mean, you've taken ona lot with this graphic novel
because, like we've, we'vetalked to some some, uh, comic
artists uh in the past and a lotof times, like the, there even
even an indie team is like threeto five people.

(24:40):
Sometimes, like you havesomebody that's doing the
writing, somebody that's doingthe inking, or the yeah, the,
the inking, the coloring, thelettering, the lettering editing
editing um, and that you're ayou're a one person show and all
that yeah, so I do.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Uh, I did work with an editor, developmental editor.
Uh, as this was was my firstbig script that I wrote, it was
important to me to make surethat I had a story that was
worth moving forward with.
So I did have a developmentaleditor, beth Scorzato, who I
knew from Comic-Cons and thingslike that, and she does

(25:19):
freelance editing.
So I worked with her early onin the script writing process,
where mostly it was I've writtena script, can you read it and
make sure it's a story, makesure it makes sense, and we
worked through some things there.
And I also have editors that doproofreading and make sure my

(25:41):
balloons are in the right order.
Uh, according to most people,that's important, yeah, and then
that happens because I'm yeah,I'm, I'm working, uh, I'm
working on my own, so likeeverything makes sense to me,
but you had got to put it infront of somebody else to be
like hey, does this actuallymake sense?
Uh, cause sometimes you're justtoo close to what you're
working on to see those issues.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
How long does it take to make one page for you?

Speaker 3 (26:07):
So it's kind of spread out in that the script is
all written, every page isplanned out, every page is
mostly lettered.
It's your planner On the sketch, yeah, on that sketch, that
layout page, it's all lettered.
Because my other paranoia isleaving enough room for the
lettering.
So I always letter thingsbefore I do the final art.

(26:30):
So right now it's just doingthe inking and coloring of each
page.
So, uh, inking, depending onthe page, if it's a big crowd
thing, it's going to take alittle bit longer, but usually
about, uh, about eight, eight,nine, 10 hours, uh for inking
and then maybe two to three forcoloring, at most, and then do a
little finishing on thelettering and then it's, it's
ready to go out.
So that does help the scheduleand that that a lot of the the

(26:51):
puzzle solving of comics is done, where I think of every page as
a puzzle.
I have the things that I wantto happen on that page and how
do I tell that story visually?
You know how do, how do I makethat page flow?
How do I make, make the bigmoments, you know, as big
emotionally as they should be.
So that's the puzzle solvingpart, which is probably, you

(27:12):
know, for me like the hardestthing to solve I can.
I can draw stuff all day, butmaking it, making it work as a
story, is the things.
That is the thing that's alittle harder to to do or figure
out.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
It's a lot, it's a huge endeavor and it's also a
good reminder that, even thoughit could appear like it's a solo
project, you do have a lot ofsupport on the editing side.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, and you're still like.
I can imagine there's pointswhere it's just you and your
pencil or whatever Ink even it'sjust you and your pencil or
whatever, Ink you and your ink,Sitting alone thinking about it.
I wonder if there's momentswhere you're just like what the
fuck am I doing?
And how do you get throughthose?

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Because it's a huge commitment, big commitment, and
basically it was that I promisedmyself that I would do this,
basically, and that, figuringout where I was in a career,
figuring out like what I neededto do next, um, if I wanted to
keep doing comics, I wanted tokeep doing illustration uh, it

(28:15):
was a like here's where I am inmy career, what could I do right
now?
And I could work with other uhwriters who are kind of at my
level, and then we're both kindof scrabbling up a ladder, Um,
and.
And then that puts me into aplace where I I have those
deadlines and have thecommitment to someone else that

(28:38):
is that is counting on me.
And then, especially havinghaving a young kid, your
schedule is messed up.
So some of that is just Ididn't want to involve someone
else in my very variableschedule.
So I didn't get those emails ofsaying, hey, where's the,
where's the pages, where's thatstuff, where's that thing?

(28:59):
Yeah, someone was just waitingon me to do the stuff.
I found stressful and I figuredit also wasn't fair to to bring
someone else into where I was.
And then I wanted to try tomake a a more of a career happen
, just based on the work that Ican do on my own, so that that

(29:21):
also that allows me to put itout free.
I don't have to negotiate thatwith someone else or negotiate
that with a publisher.
And you know that what I wouldlike is just to write this book,
finish it and then writeanother book, and that would be
kind of my dream career.
This is kind of the shot atlike can I make that work?

(29:42):
Can I bring in enough to makethat make sense?
And I promised myself that Iwould give this a good try.
And that means, hey, I'm goingto write a big book and going to
put it out in a way that themost people can see it and we'll
see what happens.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
I think that's what I love about indie creators is
the like I'm trying to think ofa good adjective.
I'm just going to say brave,like as somebody who really
appreciates and actually justgot laid off.
Fun fact for me, I reallyappreciate knowing where my
paycheck's coming from and butat the same time I have lots of
artistic aspirations and I seepeople like you just doing it.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
That's very brave, and I will.
I do also have to note youmentioned the people behind me
doing editing and all that, butI also have my partner who has
has a good job, and I workedjobs getting her through school.
So I had jobs for 10, 12 years,getting us up to a point, and

(30:40):
then she takes over with her joband I stay home with our
daughter.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
I love that switch sort of happened with the, you
know with the with our kid, butthere is absolutely that support
there as well.
If I didn't have her in mycorner in that way, as well as
being an excellent proofreader,if I didn't have her in that
corner, having a job and havinghealthcare and all that, I would

(31:07):
be out having my own jobsomewhere.
I appreciate your humility andacknowledging that it's not
possible without that supportand I think you'll find that all
around comics Like hey, you docomics, you could be like even a
name, and those people haveothers in their lives that lend
to the stability that allowsthem to period of time before

(31:30):
they became very successful,that their success is fully
attributed to somebody in theirlife helping them get to that

(31:53):
point so that they could focuson the thing that they were
creating.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
What makes me appreciate you, jason and this
should be normal, but I don'tthink is is that you just
acknowledged it.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
So, yeah, I always try to, because I talk to lots
of artists and hang out with artpeople and I really don't want
anyone to quit their jobthinking, hey, oh, jason,
jason's doing it.
Like, don't quit your job, lookat you know, take a look at
your family, take a look atwhere you are and see, like,
well, how much, what's mypercentage that I'm contributing
here, and it doesn't make sense?

(32:24):
Yeah, what's my percentage thatI'm contributing here and does
it make sense?
So I just want to be honestabout where I'm coming from as
well, that I have the ability todo this, so I'm giving that the
best shot that I possibly can.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
This is why I dream of universal basic income,
because I think all the timeabout people who have incredible
things inside of them that theyjust don't have the opportunity
.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
And it's.
It's a very it could be a verycapitalist thing to do, in that
If you free people up to beinnovative, they're going to be
innovative more often than not.
Yeah, and you could have somany people starting so many
different types of businesses,which then support people

(33:07):
through employment, if you justgave them the chance to do so.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
I'm resisting the urge to stand up and cheer.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yes, I agree.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
I think universal basic income other than public
health care are like my twothings that I just wish for in
this country.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Those two would be great.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Especially for entrepreneurship because, like
you said, you're able to do thisbecause your wife has health
insurance, and so that's areally big thing.
I want to ask you actuallyabout Vale, because one of the
first things that I noticedabout her is that your main
character is a woman, she's awarrior woman, and the
unfortunate reality is that mostof the time when I see
especially comic depicted womenin apocalypse or just comics

(33:47):
generally, it's usually astereotypical, highly sexualized
woman, and that is not what youdid with Vale.
Vale is a person.
They're not highly gendered,they're not running around in
heels, they don't have perfecthair.
I don't think I've seen theirboobs once, unless they just
happened to be available, youknow, like closed appropriately,
and I feel like this must havebeen an intentional choice.

(34:09):
I'd love to hear more from youabout, like, what made you
choose to center a femalecharacter, but also not not from
those stereotypical spaces.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
Yeah, I mean, I think that sort of thing has its
place.
That sort of thing has itsplace, uh, but uh, what I want
to do is is make sure that thatis uh something that uh everyone
can read and everyone feelslike, uh can, can connect with
that character and and sometimesthat extra level of of, uh you

(34:37):
know, sexuality or or or thatcan get in the way of people
connecting with, with a work, Iwant this to be read by, you
know, as many people as possible, and I I never want to have to
sort of make an apology for fora part of it and I could, I

(34:58):
could make apologies for forsome level of gore and all that.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
But like it's a zombie, it's zombies.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
That's, it's, it's still zombies, still zombies, uh
, but, yeah, I wanted it to bemore on the the realistic side.
Uh, I also wanted to uh makesure that that everyone could
could connect with her, uh, onthe the levels that I that I'm
intending them to in terms of,like, she cares for her son, she

(35:28):
cares for her partner and atthe time that we're picking up
this story, it's just not anappropriate time for anything
else to happen.
She is certainly a full humanand you know, uh, everything
that humans do, uh, and, and youknow, there are a couple like

(35:50):
flashback times to when she wasyounger, and, and, um, and all
that, but it's, it's all couchedin the like, well, this is a
relationship, this is a person,um, so she certainly had those
experiences.
But when we pick up story,she's fighting zombies and then
is dead and then meets herfamily again and that, that,
that aspect when she's a zombie,is definitely something I

(36:12):
wanted to sidestep, like we'renot going to, we're not getting
into that, but but definitelywanted to, to be able to, to put
it anywhere and not have to, uh, you know, make those, make,
make apologies or or say like,oh, I know that she's, she's got
a chain mail bikini on, butyou'll enjoy it.
Yeah, when you get to know heryou will.

(36:33):
But it can be.
It can be a hurdle for people.
So what about?
And I want people to buy intothe world more than I want you
know, ogling?

Speaker 1 (36:43):
What about the people who want an apology because
it's not hyper-sexualized andthey're like she's not in a
chainmail bikini and wearingheels?
I'm offended.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
I could point you to any number of other books that
will fulfill your needs.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, I mean that's.
I think you make a good pointand I always want to make sure
that that's clear.
It's not that I'm against chainmail bikini, but it's that it's
99% of what is available andthat's what makes it it's like
literally noticeable.
When I open up your graphicnovel and I'm like that's not
who I expected to see.
I already had in my mind whatwas going to be drawn and so,

(37:29):
yeah, you portray her as a wholeperson and not like titties
first, and I just you're right.
For someone like me, that makesher instantly more accessible
and relatable.
I love her shaved hair sideslike I want to look like veil.
I think she's rad, thank you,thank you.
How would you describe yourzombies?
For those who haven't read ityet?

Speaker 3 (37:39):
uh.
So zombies, they are, uh,pretty much fully kind of
functional human beingsmechanically, in that they can
move as fast or as slow as ahuman could.
When they are first turned, uh,and eventually they would they
would start to break down.
Uh, once you have mechanicalproblems, they're not going to

(38:00):
be able to walk around anymore.
So, so there's not a lot of uh,army of darkness walking around
, skeletons, uh, type things itis.
They will move as long asthey're mechanically able to
move.
Yeah, uh, so you can, you know,you can rip pieces off, you can
, you know, take off arms, takeoff half of a face or whatever,

(38:35):
but as long as they can keepmoving around, they're going to
keep moving around.
And there's a mystical, sort ofmagical angle to the whole thing
in that there's a reason thisis happening.
There's sort of somebody behindthis.
So they have a plan and theyreally just need some bodies for
a while.
They don't need to last forever.
It is just a means to an end.
So they're going to be mindless.
They're going to be attackingpeople they're mostly attacking

(38:55):
people with the goal of alsokilling their victims so that
they add to the, the army of thedead.
There's not so much aconsumption angle to it, either
brains or meat or blood oranything like that.
It's just I'm dead and I wantyou to be dead as well.
Spread, yeah, and then uh, everyuh.

(39:16):
Part of the mechanics of thisis that how, how your body gets
co-opted is that your soul isstill attached to your body,
sort of like a balloon uh,glowing blue balloon.
Uh, above your body you are,you are sort of kicked out of
your body, but uh in, in orderto be able to move you around

(39:37):
you, your, your spirit has tostill be kind of attached to the
body.
Uh, so you have that sort ofpsychological aspect of you know
, having to watch yourself dothese terrible things.
Uh, and, and most of the time,most characters will, uh, will,
give up after a time of like,well, this uh-oh rut row.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Why did the meeting end?

Speaker 1 (40:00):
hard cut leah.
Um sorry, jason, we're.
We've switched from zoom togoogle meet.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
I don't know why they call it google meet I guess
they're getting into livestockand this livestock is not
holding up no, I paid the moneyto have an endless google meet
and then it kicked us outmid-sentence for you, jason.
So thank you for your patienceof the ongoing technical
challenges.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
No problem.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
But let's get back into it, because we were in the
middle of something really greatwith your zombies.
I would love to hear more aboutyour choice to have somebody be
sentient and witnessingthemselves doing atrocious
things.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
Yeah, so I wanted to.
I think it was necessary if Iwanted to tell a story about
being becoming a zombie, becomebeing a zombie.
I needed to have that sort ofperspective on, uh, on what was
happening.
And so, yeah you're, you'resort of trapped above your, your
, your body, uh, sort ofrepresented by your, uh, your,

(40:59):
your spirit, uh, which is a a ofa drawing skeleton, a layout
skeleton of what I thought wasthe most basic aspect of a comic
book character.
Is that that skeleton you woulddraw first in thumbnail pages,
so just kind of a head and a ribcage and some blobby hands,

(41:20):
maybe some fingers.
It took me a while to figure outwhat that spirit would look
like, what that soul would looklike, and eventually landed on
that idea of, well, this is whatI draw first, what I'm going to
draw a page of the book is thisskeleton.

(41:40):
So I figured that was the mostbasic aspect of of kind of any
comic book character and, uh, alot also allows me to put in a,
you know, a couple little, verytiny meta blobs where, like that
uh, meta, meta bits where thespirit can look, you know, maybe
at a different panel or like aword balloon or something, um,

(42:01):
so I wanted to have thatperspective on what was
happening, uh, so that, um, I'dbe able to have that turn of her
coming back to to a body, soshe, she'll spend some time, um,
you know, watching her body, dodo these bad things and then,
uh, the the consequences of that, and then have to deal with, uh

(42:22):
, that when she's back incontrol of, like, hey, I did
these things.
I have to get past that becauseI have a job to do right now.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Is there something that in real world, non-zombie
life, that inspired you to havethat kind of a metaphor?

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
Part of the inspiration for thebook was my father had
frontotemporal dementia, so FTDis kind of a quick onset type of
dementia and it's one that willbe pretty insidious in that you

(42:59):
appear mostly fine, fine, butyour thinking gets very jumbled.
Your personality can change,you can be, um, you know, kind
of a different person in a lotof ways and the, the thought
that like, oh, maybe, likesomewhere in there is, is like

(43:22):
the more of the, the father thatI knew, uh, having to sort of
watch this like change from the,from the inside, and you can't
do anything about it, um, and II have no, no real evidence uh,
on that, but it was, you know,kind of a thought when that was
was happening.
That, um, you know, what wouldit?

(43:42):
What would it?
What does it look like on theinside of this?
So a tough sort of origin forit.
But I think that's where a lotof good fiction comes from and
that it's yeah, there's zombiesand swords and people running
around and jumping and all thatcool stuff, but it comes from a

(44:04):
place of experience orinspiration that has a real
world basis.
So, so the idea of beingtrapped in a body that's doing
things that you don'tnecessarily want to do is
something that that exists, justnot in zombie form.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah, I think you said your father's passed.
Yes, yes, art is something thatexists, just not in zombie form
.
Yeah, I think you said yourfather's passed.
Yes, yes, I'm so sorry to hearthat.
I think that the best art isusually something that is direct
experience, that's challengingand then channeled through
storytelling.
And I didn't know that it wasabout.
I had to look it up becauseyou'd put FTD as an acronym in
an email with me and.

(44:43):
I learned frontotemporaldementia, which I think our dog
has actually.
So I was just saying it wasdementia, but I think it was
interesting because before younoting that, I was thinking it
was a stand in for other kindsof moments.
Like I think people who havehad like very closely in my own
life, who've had struggledaddiction issues, that when
they're in the peak of that somepart of them knows and doesn't

(45:06):
want to be doing the things thatthey're doing but they can't
help themselves and then theyhave to when they come out of it
and I'm curious if thishappened with your dad like when
they come out of it and they'rein a better place, they have to
grapple with what they've done.
And yeah, were there.
If it's OK, if I ask, like,were there moments like that
with your dad where he wouldcome back?

Speaker 3 (45:23):
I can't say that there was, that there were any
of those those moments.
I think that's kind of a aspectof the of the disease, that it's
kind of a accumulative thing,so I can't say that there was
anything that that I knew about,that was speaking towards that,

(45:44):
but definitely I would.
I would see, definitely wouldresonate with a, a addiction
mindset, anybody who is in abody that they don't necessarily
identify with.
So I've had, I've had lots ofconversations with people who
have read it and were like, oh,I really, you know, like that's
a really interesting idea, likethat really speaks to X, that

(46:05):
speaks to this, that thatsomething I experience.
So, um, regardless of where I'mcoming from in creating it, I
am uh definitely uh hearing frompeople who can read that in in
a variety of ways, which I'malways very excited to hear
about.
Like I want to know how peopleconnect with it and and I'm
super glad that uh, people cansee, um, all sorts of different,

(46:28):
uh different things in that andthat's that's always great to
see yeah, there's also, like the, the story on the other side of
that too, which is like thisthat's, that's how you can tell
it's a good story, because youcan read it two different ways.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Is that?
Um, you know it's it's not justtheir experience of coming back
from that and and seeing whatthey've done, but also people
seeing what they've done andthen not being able to trust
that person to not do it again,which I think is like the story
of most people who have had afamily member or somebody that
they care about with addictionissues.
Yeah, absolutely, and you itthat shows up in the family

(47:01):
member or somebody that theycare about with addiction issues
?

Speaker 3 (47:02):
yeah, absolutely.
And you, that shows up in the,in the family dynamics as, um,
as everyone comes together, youknow, end of end of book one,
they come together and go intobook two, uh, her partner, hell,
he's, you know rightly a littlebit wary about the whole
situation of like, he's, he'snot really, uh, he's not really

(47:26):
a warrior, he's not really afighter.
He's a big guy but blacksmith,uh, type big where he, he likes
to make things.
Um, there's a more moremetaphors for like things that
that I experienced.
And as a stay-at-home dad, mywife's going out to work every
day and comes back.
This is a similar situation.

(47:48):
He's taking care of their kid,he's making things and building
things, and I think somewhere inthe story states that he's
mostly making things forbuilding.
He's not aI-make-swords-all-day type of
blacksmith.
If such a thing existed in my,my, ahistorical, uh, medieval

(48:10):
times here, if you could justfocus on construction, uh, as a
blacksmith, um, but he, he knowsthat he can't get everybody out
of the situation, that he can'tnecessarily get himself and his
son out of the situation.
So he, he needs to connect withher, with veil, uh, in a way,
because she's now the way outfor uh, him, especially their

(48:34):
son, uh, ragno, uh, where he, heneeds her.
But he is also trying to beprotective and trying to uh move
, move, ragno, their, theirchild, sort of away from getting
emotionally involved with hisreturned mother, uh, which is an
impossible task.

(48:55):
Uh, so you have that, thosesituations where you, you have a
kid, uh, I I've had this happenwhere, like, something is going
on around us and I'm trying tolike take my daughter's
shoulders and like point her inthe opposite direction and like
say, go that way, like don'tlook at that thing, uh, and and
it inevitably doesn't work likeshe'd be like why are you moving

(49:16):
me that way?

Speaker 1 (49:16):
I want to see what's over here and then I want to see
the forbidden thing yeah, seeswhat, whatever's going on, it
never worked, yeah, um.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
So so he's uh kind of rightly worried about situation
.
He doesn't know why thishappened.
Um, uh, nobody really knows whyit happens, um and, and they all
just got lucky in that she wasdiscovered by somebody she knew,
uh and, and happened to becaptured at a time where it was

(49:46):
possible to bring her back.
Her soul, her spirit, as wetalked about before, was ready
to give up, like I can't make achange, I can't do anything with
this body, there's nothing leftfor me to do and I can't watch
this happen anymore.
So they kind of go into adormant, sort of sleepy state
where nothing really is going tohappen.
But they're able to catch herbefore that time of giving up

(50:11):
happens, which is kind of alucky thing.
And there's also a little bitof static electricity that pops
between her and her son when herson reaches out to touch her as
a zombie and and held pulls himaway but gets close enough to
have a little bit of a zap, andthat's that's kind of my uh

(50:31):
little little like well,something happened here.
I don't know what it is, but Ineed to represent it somehow it
was clear um some unexplainedmagic yeah well, I also
unexplained it.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yeah Well, I also Unexplained it's already magical
.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
It's fine yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
I like your use of color to demonstrate the magic,
like scary red, demon eyes, thatsort of.
Again, the way you use light,almost like it's refracting off
I don't know, like when I'm, youknow when you're in a, so you
have a dirty windshield at nightand the light's kind of like
yeah, you should, everybody justgo read return so you can see
what I'm talking about.
Because I can't read it, Ishould have to go read it and

(51:07):
and, uh, what I wanted to dowith those, um, with the eyes.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
So the eyes of the zombies all glow red.
I wanted to have a definite, uh, a definite visual signifier
that this person was a zombie.
Uh, creepy red eyes are fun, andthen I can also use those eyes
as as motion lines, as speedlines, basically, yeah that's
the word uh, because I'm doing alot of a lot of painting in

(51:31):
these books and things like thatand speed lines are tough to do
in painting get that motionacross.
So, uh, if I can uh use those,the trails of those red eyes to
kind of show what happened inthe two seconds before this
panel when is that zombie moving?
Where did they come from?
I can use those eyes and thatkind of long exposure look so

(51:52):
that they leave trails behind,and then that also helps with
the colored metaphors of thewhole thing.
The zombies are red and thespirits are blue, so we can get
that sort of color, colorstorytelling across.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's important to makethose distinctions too, because
you know, if you're not, ifyou're not making those
distinctions, it can all kind ofblend together.
I can think of so many movieswhere exactly that thing
happened, where it's just like-.
But you can't tell very well,they're in the past and
everything's sepia tone, butthey're in the present and
everything's still sepia tone.

(52:32):
Oh, do you mean the thirdseason?

Speaker 2 (52:35):
of Black Summer, where I had no idea what was
going on.
Yes, anyways, we won't trashtalk that.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
I love that show, but that was very annoying.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah, that was an editing issue.
For sure, it's very clearwhat's happening here.
But what's interesting, though,for me, is like there's still,
when I was reading it, there'sstill the tension of like I'm
not sure if Vale's fully incontrol and there's this one
panel that released it out forme, where Ragnar goes to hug her
and her face looks like shemight bite him.
Like, are you going to bite him?
So you're very good atdemonstrating that tension of

(53:07):
the will.
She won't she.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
Yeah, and it's something that comes out through
the second part, where when herfamily, and especially her son,
is in in danger, like her, herzealousness to protect him is
something that will start toseparate her from control of her
body, so like if she's going torun towards her son, her spirit

(53:33):
starts to get out in front ofthe zombie body.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
And then, like sort of the further that she gets in,
the furthermore she'sconcentrating on something else.
Further that she gets in, thefurther more she's concentrating
on something else, or she canstart to lose control of that,
of that body, and it starts torevert back to being a being, a
zombie, being, uh, in thatsituation, a danger, and can end
up being more of a danger thanwhatever was was going on.

(53:58):
Uh.
So as those uh things sort ofpile up, hal becomes reasonably
more concerned about this, asdoes Vale, like she can see that
she might be the problem inthese situations sometimes.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Cue Taylor Swift's song yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think it also makes me thinkabout again.
We're not parents, but I'vecertainly witnessed that when
people have children there issome sort of anchor.
That happens in terms ofchoices.
Maybe you can I don't know ifthat resonates for you but
because you are a parent, butdoes that?

Speaker 3 (54:42):
like is there something about having a kid
that changes your choices,asking for other people like me,
who don't have them Absolutely,absolutely, I think it does.
Uh, cause you're, you're, um,you have another person who is
absolutely reliant on you.
Like you could, you could havethis with a partner.
You could have this with a?
Um, you know, a sibling oranother family member, but, um,
in a lot of those situations youcould say like, oh, they need

(55:03):
me, but like they could alsofigure it out on their own if
they needed to.
But with a kid you don't havethat, that ability.
Like, you might have a bad day,and then you still have to have
another day tomorrow.
It doesn't, doesn't go away.
You still have to be there foryour kid, no matter what's going
on, and you have to makedecisions that will that will

(55:27):
definitely affect them, and theyhave no control over a lot of
those decisions.
So you want to at least me, Ialways want to be fair about
that too.
Like you don't really havecontrol over this.
The best I can do is talk toyou about whatever's going on,
but I make this decision andwhatever's going on, um, but you
know, I to make this decisionand it's going to affect you, um
, so you want to be you alwayswant to be honest about what's

(55:48):
going on but it definitelyaffects your thinking, uh, as to
how you live your life and whatyou're going to do and and I
know like if I stay up real lateworking on something I can, I
can get through the next day,but will I be real effective?
well, you know, will I be crabby, will like one thing go wrong
and then blow up and like that'snot the person that I want to

(56:11):
be, so that that will affectwhen you know what I want to do.
Um, you know, in terms ofschedule, in that case, like it
was just me, I could stay up allnight and I could zombie my way
through the next day, and thenit'll be fine.
Yeah, yeah, I have somebodyelse to take care of.
And that there's also a I callit like terrible forgiveness of

(56:35):
children and that there's somewithin it, within a kid like
that kid instinctively knowsthat they're reliant on you for
life, to be protected, to be fedand all that.
And to some extent, like youcould be real mean to your kid,
and your kid is still going tolike you.

(56:57):
Your kid is still going to like, want to be with you, to like
want to be with you.
Yeah, uh, and I don't, uh, Idon't have anything in my life
that would necessarily uh, causethat, uh necessarily like,
trigger that to an extremedegree, but like, yeah, like I
could get mad at my kid and thenshe's still gonna want to like,

(57:17):
see me later, which issometimes weird.
Like you don't necessarily getall the feedback you would get
from a, an adult.
Like, if you treat an adult, youshout at an adult, they're not
going to talk to you again, theydon't have to talk to you
unless it's a reality tv show,in which case they're going to
make sure they yell lots at thetime yeah, but like your kid is

(57:38):
kind of always going to love youto some extent no matter what
to sometimes to their owndetriment yeah a creepy idea as
a, as a parent, like I want mykid to be free not to talk to me
if I do something uh,incredibly shitty to them so I
know you're not a boomer.

(57:59):
I mean also, I'm looking at youthat too, but like, yeah, it's,
it's uh, that part's kind ofscary.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Like you don't necessarily get all the feedback
you would get from from anadult, like yeah, that you did
something wrong brave onmultiple fronts, jason, two
things that are scary one goingout and like putting your art
out there, and two, being aparent.
I think is is a is a.
Choose your own adventure.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
That I said, hell no yeah, I have to agree, like
there's so much but you'reconscientious about it and I
think that goes a long way.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
Um, whereas I, you know, I love my boomer parents,
but because I'll again, theyraised me and I love them and I
remember idealizing them and atone point realizing like around
eight was when I woke up to thewho, my dad actually is.
Yeah, they're people too,regardless of yeah, they're
people and they were like theyact the way they do because of

(58:55):
something too yeah, oh yes.
Following the lines ofgenerational trauma has been a
whole hobby of mine in therapyfor many years.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
I remember my horror at realizing that, like in my
mid thirties, looking back andbeing like holy shit, I was
raised by 20 year olds.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Yeah, yeah absolutely .
Yeah, I would have absolutelyfucked a kid up Like now.
I think I could probably do it,okay, but I hear what you're
saying of um, if you don't getsleep, like now, I think I could
probably do it Okay, but I hearwhat you're saying of um, I
mean, if you don't get sleep,you're going to be not as great
to your kid and like that.
Then you have the terror.
I'm imagining the terribleguilt that goes along with that.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Absolutely yeah, and to some extent, uh, I always
feel like if you want to be aparent, you also have to be to
fuck up your kid.
In some way.
There will be something forthem to talk about in therapy.
Hopefully, as an adult There'llbe something because, as we

(59:52):
talked about, I am still a humancoming from a direction, coming
from a perspective as well, andI just my goal is to make those
conversations with therapistsas untraumatizing as possible.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
That's wonderful, and you also have a kind of person
that maybe one day, as I think,a healthy family.
This is like, okay, this isLeah's fantasy, it's not
happened.
But you know, when your parentcomes to you or you come to your
parent, you're like hey, thesethings happen.
And then you, Jason, say I'msorry about that, I did my best,
but I didn't realize the impact.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
That would be my hope , yeah, that I can have that
learned and wise response.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
You're my second dad of this Zymba Club season where
I'm like I wish you were my dadand I know we're the same
age-ishh like it's kind of.
It's interesting, just becauseyou know not getting into my sob
story but every time I talk tosomebody who is a parent, who
has conscientiousness like you,uh, it does like it's healing a
little bit, just so you knowanytime I hear your parents like

(01:00:58):
trying their best and figuringit out.
And a little bit of humility itgoes a long way yeah yeah, I'll
be talking about that with mytherapist.
I'll be like okay, therapist,why is it that I keep
interviewing um creators who Iwish were my dad?

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
let's unpack that it'll be a good conversation
yeah, have I made youuncomfortable.
No, I can make your uh, youryour conversation with the
therapist as untraumatizing aspossible.
I have to accept that, uh, thework that I do might, uh might
trigger some people into havingsome conversations hopefully

(01:01:31):
healthy that'd be fine yeah,well, you also fine goal.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
You have influence on other young people because you
teach comic storytelling atcamps I do, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
So I've done uh, some uh week-long summer camp, so
like three hours a day, fivedays, and then done some like
after five, so like adultclasses over, say, five weeks,
focusing on comic storytellingand learning how to kind of
structure a story.

(01:02:01):
And learning how to kind ofstructure a story because that
was something that I learned inwriting this book, doing lots of
research, figuring out how thisworks, because writing was
always a scary thing for me thatI can do art, I had ideas for
stories, but I didn't know howto make that, do anything.
And then for a while I workedwith lots of writers and that

(01:02:26):
stuff is fun, um, but uh, it waskind of a uh, well, I, I let
someone else handle that becausedrawing something is enough and
it certainly is.
Um, it's like it's a lot ifyou're working with a writer,
but you know, giving notes tokind of make it into the story
you want it to be right, justtry to write it yourself, yeah,

(01:02:49):
so I was always scared of thatstorytelling aspect of writing,
and this was I'm getting overthis hurdle where I had done
like 24-hour comic day, which isa try to make 24 pages in 24
hours terrible comics marathonokay, terrible comics that made
me feel like what?

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
and you're alive after that?

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
yes, yeah, so I have done that.
Uh, I've run the event uh, acouple different comic book
shops, um, it is a nationalevent uh, sort of, organized um
by uh scott mcleod, uh, makingcomics and understanding comics,
and that uh was was one of theoriginators of this.
But uh, it usually takes placefirst weekend of october.

(01:03:35):
If anyone out there isinterested in doing it, coming
up, uh, coming up.
Uh, you may have a library or acomic book shop near you that
does this uh, but my events Iwould put on.
We would start uh noon on asaturday and go to noon on a
sunday and just don't come witha script.
You come with.
I always tell people to comewith an idea, figure out what

(01:03:55):
you want to do, but no script.
You sit down, you write, youdraw and you try to put out 24
pages in 24 hours.
So I had done that like fivetimes now and come, come out
with books each time.
Wow, so kind of.
At the end of that last one Iwas like, well, maybe my next
challenge is to make a book thatI am like really actually proud

(01:04:16):
of in a longer period of time,because for me, like sitting
down and ignoring everythingelse for 24 hours.
It's kind of easy, uh, do you?

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
sleep.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
This is really an important question to me no
sleep wow I, I think, I like, Ithink that there's something
that's really valuable aboutshowing up to do something and
making the commitment to do itpoorly, because there's so much,
uh, barrier in the way ofsomebody doing something,
because they think it has to begood that if you're just yeah it
does.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
It removes that perfectionist, uh aspect to art
and comic art uh, and andwriting and to some extent, um,
when you just have to get itdone and you don't have to get
it done, I always tell people toleave.
If you're tired and you need togo, don't force yourself to
stay.
But uh, having done that abunch, having knowing that I can

(01:05:06):
sit down and kind of write astory, uh, like my first hour at
these events would be justwriting one through 24 and then
kind of writing what happens oneach page, uh, from my idea of
what I want this story to bethis year.
So like I know that I couldstructure that.
But how do I?
How do I make that into alonger process?
So, uh, that writing aspect wasscary to me.
So I wanted to hopefully takewhat I learned to other people

(01:05:32):
and remove some of that, some ofthe anxiety that I felt
starting in writing.
So I wanted to kind of passsome of that on in a fun way.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
That's lovely.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
I'm curious if any of the kids have taught you
something about storytellingthat you didn't expect through
the camps just just mostly afreedom of a freedom of idea, uh
, in in coming up with kind ofwhat happens next or how does
this story work.
Uh, our first class is usuallywhat I call the magic trick,
where I have a plot generatorbook and it's just like three

(01:06:07):
random pages with likecharacters or settings on there
or whatever is happening in thestory, just like three sentences
, and you flip to random pagesand you come up with something.
So I would have some kids choosedifferent pages, flip through
randomly, pick ones you like,and then we take that idea that
just randomly happened in frontof us and get a three, four act

(01:06:32):
story out of that by saying,okay, here's our setup, here's
the things we need to include,like, how do we open this story?
How does this work?
And we put together thisoutline on this ridiculous story
idea and with the hopes thatpeople see that and say, well,
if we, if we did it with thisrandom thing that we came up
with, uh, if we were able tomake a reasonable story out of

(01:06:54):
that, surely I can do that withsomething that I care about,
with a concept that I care about.
Um, so when we're doing that,I'm asking, asking, asking the
kids asking the students likewhat, ok, we need to do this
part of the story.
What happens next?
What can we do?
And they'll, they'll come upwith all sorts of fun stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Tell me the wildest thing they've come up with where
you're like.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
OK, I did.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
I did have to.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
We had a story that involved the mafia, and, and
they also decided that the mafialived in sewers.
Uh, and, and they also decidedthat the mafia lived in sewers.
And I tried to, I tried toexplain them that the mafia was
like classy criminals.
They were very insistent thatthey lived in the, in the sewers
.
We had a sewer mafia, why not?

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
I feel like somebody was influenced by the ninja
turtles somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Yeah, in that yeah, I kind of want to know about the
sewer mafia the sewer mafia whatare?
They running down there, Idon't know dealing in poop
they're like you want yourwastewater to be drained.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
You go through us otherwise this stuff is backing
up in the streets it's a verybig position of power.
It should be very, veryattractive to the mafia.
We can shut down the sewersmafia.
Get on this very big positionof power.
It should be very very veryattractive to the mafia.
Yeah Like oh yeah, we can.
We can shut down the sewersyeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
Mafia, get on this.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
No, don't.
Nobody from the mafia islistening to this right now,
just giving them their milliondollar idea, jason.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
So that was a.
That was a story about an excon and a a and a kid who didn't
have some sort of orphan kidand they get stuck in a TV show
was kind of the setup for thatstory.
So we had them like on the setof a TV show and they got to

(01:08:39):
work on the TV show and themafia is trying to take them out
while they work on the TV show.
It was fun, it was.
It was fun.
It's always a fun, a fun tripand I've done that a couple of
times, I've done that in all theclasses, done on a couple of
times at at comic conventionstoo, as like a panel.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
That's fun, I would take that class, if it was like
a virtual version.
Yeah, what's it like in termsof like, having accomplished two
parts of your four-part seriesso far?

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
Yeah, it feels really great Like I'm more than
halfway through the story, sothat's good.
I hit the halfway point, youknow, around page 77, aiming
towards about 155 page books.
So I hit my halfway point andthat feels great.
Had a great campaign for thefirst part one one uh little

(01:09:28):
like 88 people, a little overthree thousand dollars for
printing books and and in mycase, like I don't have other
people to pay at this point.
So a kickstarter for me is ismore of like how many, how many
copies does everyone want me toprint of this thing?
Uh, and and how many peoplewant to buy a copy?

(01:09:48):
So I have relatively low goalsand that's just kind of my
minimum print run that I want tosend out.
So it's more that the story isdone.
You can see it on the website.
You can see me making progresson new pages before we get to
the part three, kickstarter.
So you know backers will knowthat the story is done and

(01:10:12):
exists.
This is just kind of a printing, a way to print, a way to
pre-order and a way to sort ofadvertise the book.
But I was really happy with theway that first Kickstarter went
and happy with the way thisone's going with the, the way
that first kickstarter went, andhappy with the way this one's
going, um and uh, it it feels,it feels good, like I have kind
of rolled that, rolled thatboulder, halfway up the hill at

(01:10:34):
least, and so it would be verysilly to stop now.
Yeah, so you let that bouldergo, it's just gonna roll back to
the bottom and you're gonna getcrushed exactly.
So your child would notappreciate that.
Yeah, the weight of the work iskind of behind me now where I
just have to keep going and havemet with good success and talk

(01:10:59):
to people at Comic-Cons andpodcasts here and that, and I'm
just very happy with the, thereception of everything.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
So it's it's more getting it out there and seeing,
uh, seeing what can be made ofit it's a huge accomplishment
and because I have adhd, I haveto ask if those are skulls on
your wrist.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
Yes, they are they are?
They are, uh, little skullbeads.
I have these too.
I don't know.
I don't know what they're madeof.
Yeah, could be any weird bones,I don't know.
I don't know what they're madeof.
Yeah, could be any weird bones,I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
I have a skull.
They're not plastic.
I have a skull bracelet.
Sorry, this is this.
We should just call this theADHD Buckle Podcast.
Like this beautiful shiny thing, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
Speaking of that thing that you were talking
about just now.
What's on your wrist?
Yeah, that you were talkingabout just now.
What's on your wrist?

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Yeah, not the Kickstarter, but where'd you get
that bracelet?
But we obviously will haveeverything in the show notes,
but if there was one place youwant people to go right now,
it'd be the Kickstarter to checkit out.
They can get books one and twoall in like one printed volume.

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
So there'll be two separate pieces.
So the Kickstarter is titledReturned Part One and Two of
Four, so mainly selling part two, but part one is available as
an add on.
So if you are new to the story,you go here, you back part two
and in the process of confirming, of checking out on Kickstarter

(01:12:23):
, there'll be a page that comesup that says what are your
add-ons and then at that pointyou can add on a digital PDF of
the book which is availableinternationally.
You can add on a print copy ofpart one and a couple other
options.
There's an artist edition thatI've been doing which is all the
black and white art with allthe lettering and able to be

(01:12:44):
read that way.
I had a lot of people excitedabout the black and white art,
uh, with all the lettering andable to be read that way.
I love people excited about theblack and white art.
Uh, when I show it at atconventions and then I have to
explain, I'm also coloring itand they say, well, that's dumb.
They say, yeah, well, theyhaven't seen your colored parts.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
If they say but then I show them the colored pages.

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
I'm like, oh, that's good coloring too I want to give
.
I want to give people thechance to read it how they want
to read it, kind of like theGrindhouse edition and the fancy
glossy edition.
Yeah, that's a smart idea.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
Do you have any art prints Asking?

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
for me because I love collecting art on my walls on
this campaign, for the, for thefour part campaigns that I'm
doing.
They're mostly about hey,here's a book, read a book.
I don't have a lot of extrastuff on these, on these
campaigns, partly because I'mstill producing the book and

(01:13:39):
kind of everything that I wouldoffer beyond.
The book takes away from makingthe next book.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
How dare you not offer 8,000 other things on top
of?
All the 80-hour work week, pluswork at home dad situation.

Speaker 3 (01:13:52):
Now what I want to do is, when I get past putting out
books one through four onKickstarter, then doing a
collected edition aftereverything's done.
So that collected edition wouldbe the place where you're going
to find some more, uh, moreinteresting or Chotsky, chotsky
type things.
Uh, but in terms of otherthings that I'm offering in this

(01:14:13):
Kickstarter, there's, um, uh,there's a book plate edition
where you can get, uh, a littlesticker like a four by four uh
sticker that I draw a uh, customfour by four sticker that I
draw a custom unique zombie on.
That's awesome.
So everybody can get a bookplate edition with a custom
zombie.
There's the artist edition.

(01:14:33):
I have a couple of retailertiers where you can get multiple
books at a discount, and then Ialso have the, the original art
tier, so you can get a copy ofthe book.
You get a copy of the artistedition.
Basically, that's the.
That's the high tier, so youcan get a copy of the book.
You get a copy of the artistedition Basically, that's the
high tier.
And then you also get to pickone of the original inked art

(01:14:54):
pages at the end of the campaign.
So, everybody, it's a firstcome, first serve system.
So I put up a web page of allthe pages I still have available
, and then you get to pick thatin the order in which you backed
.
So you get everything and youget a piece of original art.
That's very cool.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
Yeah, I love that and the artwork people listening
with their ears you don't know,you don are you doing?
Go to the Kickstarter, go checkit out.
If you're on a budget, go lookat it online, because, again,
you are very awesome for havingthis option available for
everyone.
I really really appreciate that, because not all of us can do
it, but if you can support andget it physically, that is, I
think, an awesome thing to havein your hands, and I definitely

(01:15:43):
want a piece of original art,jason.
That would be very cool.

Speaker 3 (01:15:50):
Excellent.
Yeah, gotta go back to theKickstarter.
Yeah, and you can go read itand share that online on your
social media Not youparticularly, but the reader.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
Well, we're also doing that, we're already doing
that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
The reader out there in podcast land.
Give it a read and then uhshare it on on your social media
as well.
That's a that's a great way touh to pay for for reading of the
book.
Uh, if you enjoy it, give it tosomebody else to support.
It's a very easy thing to togive to people because it's only
that link and then, um, andyeah, if you're able to come

(01:16:22):
into the Kickstarter and add tothat, and then that only makes
it more possible for me to writeanother book when this is done.

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
I love that.
That is what we want to see foryou, Jason.
Well, it has been an absolutepleasure to have you on the show
.
Thank you for all of yourpatience with our technical
difficulties.
It was a joy, dad, if I may say.
I feel so awkward saying that,but I had to commit.
Is there anything else wehaven't you want to mention

(01:16:55):
before we finish today?

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
Well, if you want to find me online, all of my social
media stuff is at strutzartS-T-R-U-T-Z-A-R-T.
I always go on all the newsocial medias to reserve my name
uh, so I don't have to givemultiple handles out.
So everything's at struts artsand you can find me uh on
youtube.
You can watch me uh make all ofthe pages uh.

(01:17:17):
You can go read all the pagesand then you can go share it uh
online.
Find me at all my social mediauh to keep up with the the
campaign and always let peopleknow when new pages are going up
once we get back to posting.

Speaker 1 (01:17:31):
Yeah, all the links will be in the description.
I'm definitely going to checkyou out on YouTube because I
love watching people draw.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
Yeah, I didn't know about that.
That's awesome yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
But thanks for joining us today.
Yeah, thank you so much.
If you want to support thepodcast, you can leave a rating
review, kind of like what Jasonwas talking about.
You could send us athree-minute voicemail at
614-699-0000006.
There's three zeros.
I gave it a lot more.
I don't know why.

(01:18:01):
I've had a lot of caffeine atthis point it's not working.
You could also sign up for ournewsletter that I've been really
bad at putting out, but you cansign up for it.
You can do it.
It might go to your spam folder.
Or you can follow us onInstagram at
zombiebookclubpodcast.
If you want to go deeper intothe apocalypse, deeper than we

(01:18:23):
are right now in our currentapocalypse, you could join the
brain munchers zombie collectiveon discord.
The links are in the show notes.
I mentioned this before withthe kickstarter right up top
yeah, you know that's up top.
Click those ones first.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
The end is nigh baby, bye, bye, bye, don't die bye.

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'Returned': A Medieval Zombie Graphic Novel with Jason Strutz | Zombie Book Club Ep 113

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}'Returned': A Medieval Zombie Graphic Novel with Jason Strutz | Zombie Book Club Ep 113