Rod the Zombie with special guest Kathryn Breen | Zombie Book Club Ep 107 - Zombie Book Club

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
There we go.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
That's a good idea.

Speaker 3 (00:03):
Alright, now I'm ready, okay.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
That was a close one, Leah.
Welcome to the Zombie Book Club, the only book club where the
book is the boy you date to pissyour dad off.
I'm Dan, and when I'm notdisappointing my dad, I'm
writing a book about a survivorof the zombie apocalypse who has
two dads and she hates themboth.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
And I'm Leah, and when I started reading Rod the
Zombie, I had to go out on ourfront porch and ask our own Rod
Zombie who is this, bethany?
Why have you not told us abouther yet?
You're dating a human girl.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
I know Under our porch's roof.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
That's when he said you don't even let me inside.
Why would I tell you?
Today we are chatting with theCatherine Breen about her debut
novel, rod the Zombie.
And spoiler Catherine's rod isdefinitely not our rod, because
he's actually handsome and oursis well made of plastic and
definitely not romance material.
But it was a very coolcoincidence.

(00:59):
And Catherine lives in Syracuse, new York, with her husband,
two dogs.
Oh, I'm sorry, see, I gottaredo that.
I got to redo that.
Sorry, I called your childrendogs.
Okay, pause.
Catherine lives in Syracuse,new York, with her husband, two
boys and their dog.
She loves to spend timeoutdoors, primarily sneaking
away for a weekend trip to theAdirondacks any chance they can.

(01:22):
She's a teacher and workingtowards her degree in special
education and in her limitedspare time which, I believe you,
that's got to be limited witheverything else going on,
catherine, somewhere between herwrestling toddlers to bed and
fighting the unrelenting urge toget a decent night's sleep, she
finds joy in creating stories.
Welcome to the show, catherine.
We're so excited you're here.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
I find it so fascinating that you're from
Syracuse, because I'm fromupstate New York as well and
we've also talked to otherpeople who are from upstate New
York and I'm just like what isit about upstate New York that
makes somebody want to writeabout zombies and the apocalypse
?

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Have you always been a zombie fan?

Speaker 3 (02:04):
um, I've always enjoyed it.
I've never tried writing azombie book until this one, um,
but I always loved the genre,like the.
I like the combo of the, thegory and the sweet, and so I I
like that kind of stuff samehere just a little bit uh, we
have some rapid fire questionsfor you to get us started.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
These are questions we ask every guest, except for
the last one, which isspecifically for you about rod
zombie yeah, okay, so you have achoice to make.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Um, I don't know what magic allows you to make this
choice, but you can choosewhether or not you're working a
40 hour work week or there's azombie apocalypse and you no
longer have to do the 40 hourwork week.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
OK.
So I actually gave this thoughtbecause I saw the sign on on
your rod the zombie.
At the event you went to Right,yes.
So my gut was telling me zombieapocalypse, because I think I
think it would be nice to seethe world shaken up a little bit
.
But in reality I have two kidswho are very loud and would

(03:16):
probably get us in situationsthat would not benefit us in a
zombie apocalypse.
So I would have to say 40-hourwork week.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
There seems to be a trend with parents choosing.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
I think is fair do you think there's room for our?
Kids to adapt in that situation, or do you think that they just
wouldn't get it?

Speaker 3 (03:37):
uh, my kids are very contrarian, so if I'm like guys,
listen, you have to be quiet.
There's absolutely no way theywould listen to me.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
So, um yeah, I I sometimes wonder if, like being
abrupt in in how to describethese things to children in a in
a dangerous situation, is thebetter way to do it, or if, like
you know, not traumatizing themis better.
Like do you just come out ofthe gate and you're like, listen

(04:07):
, there's monsters outside thatwant to kill you, so um, pipe
down or slowly eat you.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
You want to get really real, or or?

Speaker 1 (04:14):
do you or do you use the soft touch and you're just
like.
I'd really appreciate it if youdidn't um make so much noise as
a because of the impending doomand all yeah, what's what
parenting approach is the best?

Speaker 3 (04:26):
one hot take for my probably the best one would be
the second one, but with my kidsthat just wouldn't work.
I'd have to be like, listen,guys.
It's gonna be bad if you guysare loud, like, yeah, because
they, they just wouldn't take itseriously if I was like, hey,
could you please be quiet?

Speaker 1 (04:42):
I guess it could backfire too, like if you're
like yeah, there's flesh eatingghouls outside, they might just
like just start screaming theirheads off uncontrollably.
So yeah, I mean, that's youknow what.
Every parent's got their ownstyle.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
There needs to be a parenting book for the
apocalypse.
Actually, I would read that?

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, there you go, parenting in the apocalypse.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
If you were in a zombie apocalypse?
You have no choice now.
What would be your weapon ofchoice?

Speaker 3 (05:12):
So I would probably say axe it's the one that
Bethany has in the book and Ithought for a while about what I
would use and I think it wouldbe that, just because I'm not
like a gun person, I don't knowI think if I'm going to defend
myself, it would have to be in asituation where, okay, they're

(05:34):
coming at you, you have no otherchoice.
I think, it's a good choice.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
It's a solid one.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
You could use it to break into things Any weapon
that has a multiple purpose as atool, like you got to carry
stuff, so like you don't want tocarry a lot of tools out in the
apocalypse.
So if you have something thatdoes multiple things, then
you're set.
It's a win.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah no-transcript for their what unlimited shelf

(06:35):
stable food they would choose toeat for the rest of their life
in the zombie apocalypse.
But we're thinking about doingthe chop challenge again, so
just be forewarned your answerto this could show up in a
future episode as somethingsomebody has to cook with.
So it's the end of the world.
You come into a warehouse.
It's filled with a lifetimesupply of insert.
What would you want?
That would be shelf stable.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Okay, so I did think about this one too, so for me it
would have to be I'm I'mvegetarian, so my first thought
was it would have to besomething high protein, like
beans or something.
Yeah, but then I asked myhusband to, just because I was
like I feel like I'm forgettingsomething.
He said ramen.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
And.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
I would be a good one .

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you got those carbohydrates.
You know people live off oframen.
It's not high protein but youcan.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
You can find protein sources like nuts and seeds out
there, yeah, and you couldprobably scavenge beans and then
start growing some.
Yeah, I'm just going to saythat I think that there's like a
disproportionate number ofpeople who are zombie writers,
who are also vegan or vegetarian.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
So very fun to learn that you are also in the club.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
I think it's more than most.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, I'd have to more than most.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, I'd have to do an actual poll, but it's been
quite a bit.
There's been a lot of us, yeah,which is not what I expected.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
I expected a lot more .
Like we're going into the woodsand we're killing a moose yeah,
I know.
Like, if it came down to it, ifI was in a zombie apocalypse,
I'm sure I would eat meat, butlike, ideally, I'd be like all
right, where am I going to getmy protein?

Speaker 2 (08:11):
from yeah, like at least the same.
You know if you got to do whatyou got to do, but if you don't
have to do it, then you know youfind you find other ways.
Yeah, if it's survival related,we're gonna do it, but I'm
gonna be upset about it.
I'll probably cry, right.
Yeah, so this is a little bitmore fun one.
You find a dvd box set and aworking dv DVD player and a
solar panel so you can watch thesame DVD box set for the rest
of your existence.
What's the one thing you wouldchoose to watch for the rest of
your life?

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, and this can be like.
This could be like a movie boxset or a TV show.
Okay.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
So I had two things come to my mind.
I feel like they're not goingto be exciting answers, but
they're like my go-to comfort,like things to watch, and I feel
like if I'm going through azombie apocalypse, I need
something comforting to watch.
Well, so if it was a show, itwould be probably Grey's Anatomy
, just because, I don't know,it's just easy for me to watch,
like I have it on in thebackground.
And if it was, a movie.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
I love Hunger Games.
I watch it a lot, lot, but soit would probably be that, if it
was the movie, you know whatlessons to learn from both.
You know you get your medicaltraining from your gray's
anatomy.
You're there with your notebookand you're like, okay, how do I
do an appendectomy with a spoon?
And it's like, which episodewas that on?

Speaker 3 (09:20):
and it's like, oh, I like how you turned that into
something.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, I've only seen great as like like a few
episodes of gray's anatomy, so Idon't know how much medical
knowledge you actually gain.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
I'm pretty sure anybody I've known who has
medical knowledge is like don'tfollow the advice of gray's
anatomy.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
But what's?

Speaker 2 (09:36):
smart about that choice, katherine is uh, that
there is how many seasons now?

Speaker 3 (09:42):
like it's still going , going.
I don't know, I don't eventhink I've seen the most recent
seasons, but yeah, there's a lot.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
I think I stopped around season 10.
I just was like I think I'msaturated and but I have a lot
of friends who are stillwatching it.
Yeah, and Hunger Games doesfeel like good apocalypse fodder
.
I also love that movie and Ihad a dream where, where I was
basically in the hunger gamesrecently, but not as cool as um
I'm forgetting her name katniss,katniss, yes, katniss, everdeen

(10:08):
yeah, yep, all right, this isthe last rapid fire question for
you.
If you were a teenager in thezombie apocalypse, would you
date rod the zombie?

Speaker 3 (10:18):
uh, I, I did make him like.
I like his personality, but Idon't think I could date a
zombie.
I think it would gross me out.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
What about our Rod zombie?
No, I don't think so Burn.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
I mean, we've already established that Rod, the
zombie in the book, is waycooler.
Yeah, our Rod is no looker.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, he's got really skinny legs, though Like it's
mostly fabric.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
And some pool noodles that we shoved into his pants
which sounds weird, but anyways,for legs.
Well, I think you do a reallygood job of making us remember
that Rod is not alive, like Iwas saying to you, like when I
read the part about where he'sgetting ready for this special
date quote unquote with Bethany,and like some of his face falls
off, or maybe like some skinsfalls off and he's like maybe I

(11:09):
just lost some, some chunk of metrying to groom myself and not
smell like rotting flesh.
That made it real.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, I like I liked coming back to the fact that he
was dead, like I thought it wasfunny but at the same time, like
I don't know it made it realLike he's a zombie.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
It also sounds like being a teenager.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, I mean, maybe if he was human.
Anyways, I can't say too muchbecause I don't want to give the
book away, being a teenager isgross.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
You know, like I kind of I could see the parallels of
being a rotting corpse and alsolike trying to figure out what
your body is doing duringpuberty.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
So, for our listeners , could you give us a quick
rundown of what is Rod thezombie about?

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, so Rod comes back to life.
He's a zombie and he wakes upin the middle of the zombie
apocalypse, only to find outthat he's the only sentient
creature of his kind.
That he's the only sentientcreature of his kind.
Um so it ends up being verylonely and, um, he just kind of

(12:12):
is trying to get through it.
Um so he doesn't want to eatpeople because he realizes, like
, what he's doing.
Um so eventually down the roadhe meets bethany and she's not
afraid of him like other humansare, and they end up having a
connection and then truths comeout and he learns more about her
and she learns more about him.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
And yeah, yeah it's.
I haven't really read orwatched something like I think
you said Warm Bodies was aninspiration for you or something
that you enjoyed, and SantaClarita Diet, and I haven't seen
a lot of like sentient zombiemedia lately, especially with uh
.
But I want to be clear there'sa lot more going on.
Like romance is part of it, butthere's some intrigue, there is

(12:52):
some magic.
I'm curious if you could tellus a little bit about like the
zombie.
So we have Rod, who is thissort of outlier as a sentient
zombie, but how would youdescribe your zombies, because
they're not your average zomyeah.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
So they're kind of being controlled by, um somebody
who's called the crypt ruler.
He's he brought them back andis manipulating them and making
them do his bidding kind ofthing.
Um, and they eat, they eatpeople.
They're fast, they're um mean,they don't know what they're
doing, so they're they're justkind of mindlessly doing what

(13:27):
their leader says.
So, um, they're definitely notgood.
Um, but then throughout the umbook it kind of like bethany and
rod start to realize there'sstill people under all that like
um, so it makes it a little bitmore complicated.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
I, I guess yeah, that is the, I think, one of the
moral dilemmas of the zombieapocalypse in any context,
especially if they're especiallyone sentient, then you've got
to wonder, like, what's going onunderneath this drive to eat
people?
It's very disturbing.
Also, they're magical zombies,right?
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Um, so they were kind of brought back with magic.
So that's how they came back.
Um, so magic does play a bigrole in it.
Um, I don't know, I don't wantto give too much away, but yeah
yeah and uh is it?

Speaker 2 (14:17):
we can take this out if it is spoiling it.
But is it a spoiler to say thatrod like woke up, he was
already dead and he was awake,he was already dead.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Yeah, he was dead before any of it happened.
Um, and then how he died kindof comes out throughout the book
a little bit, um, and actuallyin right in the beginning it
says um, he, he was in highschool, he was running track and
then somebody kind of came outof nowhere and killed him, and
he doesn't know why.
Um, so it's something thatalways bothered him, and then as
the story goes on, he learns alittle bit more about that yeah,

(14:47):
I'd be upset about that too.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, also confusing to like wake up and be the only
sentient zombie and be likesomebody murdered me, yeah, yeah
and you go to all the otherzombies and you're just like
what's your story?
And there's like he does seemto have like, even though
they're not.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Um.
This is again, I don't think, aspoiler, but there's very early
in the book.
There is a zombie who he refersto as mrs what's her?
Name oh, price, mrs price, andit's like he has kind of an
affection for mrs price.
She is, she's not sentient andhe's worried about who he's
she's gonna eat, but like heknows her name, he calls her up
like he thinks of her as aperson.

(15:23):
Can you share more about, like,how he interacts with the other
zombies?

Speaker 3 (15:27):
yeah.
So with that I tried to kind ofmake it like like he's all
alone.
So he sees these zombies on aregular basis.
So he's kind of trying to putlike some normalcy in his
reality.
Like he's like oh, my neighbor,mrs price, but really she has
no idea he exists.
And then, um, like the, thezombie squirrel grim, um, he
like talks to him like he's hisfriend.

(15:47):
He's rod is lonely and hedoesn't really have anybody.
So that's why meeting bethanyis such a a huge thing for him
and he worries about losing her,not just as in a romantic way,
but, um, as as a friend.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
So it reminds me a little bit of um.
I can only think of the othername of the book, omega man.
Uh, I am legend where, oh, yeah, yeah, like in the movie will
smith, uh, makes friends withall the mannequins.
Yeah, because, he's so lonelyis grim sentient.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
I've been trying to figure this out.
Is grim sentient, or is he justa cute squirrel that
accidentally became a zombie?

Speaker 3 (16:27):
What I tried to do with him was because Rod is the
one that bit Grim and since Rodis sentient, grim ended up being
like kind of staying a squirrelbut dead, but a zombie squirrel
.
So he's not sentient but he'sjust like a regular squirrel
that's dead.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
And chewing on fingers.
He's very cute.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, I got it.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
We got a sticker.
I don't know if you've seen thesticker.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I don't know if I have either.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
It's on.
We have a sticker wall, so I'llI'll probably.
I've probably seen it then.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
I just have to.
I so wait.
So Grim the squirrel is kind oflike a regular squirrel but is
an.
We see him crawl up his treewith it and stuff.
But if anything, his zombieinstincts kind of kick in more,
like at one point he attackssomebody, he gets overwhelmed
with the zombie emotion, I guess.
But like with the other zombieswho aren't sentient, like

(17:39):
they're controlled by the CryptRuler, but Grim isn't so.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
Because he's bitten by Rod, but grim isn't, so oh
because he's bitten by rod androd isn't?

Speaker 1 (17:49):
oh okay, I get it.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, rod rod is special um it's always the worst
and hardest part is when I'veread something and I want to ask
all the questions and I know Ican't.
So we're gonna move on from thething I want to ask you, uh,
but there's other stuff that Ithink will be good.
Okay, sorry, I'm ramblingbecause my brain went somewhere
where I'm like I want to talk toKat.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
Your brain squirreled .

Speaker 2 (18:08):
It did.
Rod.
What was it like to write fromthe point of view of an undead
character?
What was it like getting hishead?

Speaker 3 (18:17):
I tried to more focus on the human emotions that he
would be feeling, like theloneliness, the grief, like he
misses his family and the lifehe had, um, and at the same time
he's like he has these likemonster instincts underneath all
of that and he's trying tofight it for for so long that

(18:37):
eventually he just he justthinks of himself as a monster.
So, um, he's kind of strugglingwith those emotions yeah, he
even calls himself a vegetarianzombie.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, what does he eat instead?

Speaker 3 (18:49):
so mealworms?
Mostly because I was, I googleda lot of weird stuff, but I was
like what are, um, I don't knowthat, just the nutrition that's
in them.
So I was like, okay, that couldwork.
Yeah, oh, stuff like that myfavorite vegetable mealworms.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Um, are you sorry, I blanked.
I squirreled, you squirreled.
Okay, we're right here questionfive yeah, oh yeah, that's a
good question.
Um.
So in this world, you know, you, you have, you have rod, of
course, who's a sentient zombie.
Then you have zombies, andthere are still people.
Who do you think is the mostdangerous in the world?
Is it the still living humans?

(19:31):
Is it the undead squirrels?
Um, or the undead people?

Speaker 3 (19:36):
because this was actually another one of my
thoughts when I was like, um,you know, would you choose the
nine to five or the zombieapocalypse?
And I'm thinking about tryingto protect my kids and I'm like,
well, if, well, if it's not thezombies, it's the other people
that would probably, like Idon't know, zero in, like see a
family and see us as like easytargets, I don't know.
So I definitely think and Imade them in this, this book too

(19:58):
.
It's further along in the book,but like the humans are also
kind of attacking people andthey end up being just as big a
threat as the zombies.
Like Bethany even says at somepoint, like because Rod's like
why do you feel so safe comingout at night when zombies don't
come out during the day?
And she's like well, the peopleare out during the day.

(20:20):
Like I'm not safe then either.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Like so she's kind of stuck between these two evils
sorry, our dog just came andbreathed heavily in our face hi,
do you hear?
That?
No, where did he?

Speaker 1 (20:33):
go.
He's just looking at us aroundthe corner.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Come on in buddy um, our oldest dog is slowly
becoming senile and so he doesinterrupt sometimes.
Um, but back to what you weresaying.
Uh, it is interesting also thatyour zombies can't come out
during the day.
What happens to them if theytry to come out in the day?

Speaker 3 (20:50):
um the.
The sun, like, burns theirflesh, so they can't last long
in the sun would?

Speaker 1 (20:56):
would the sun eventually destroy them, or is
it more of a preservation thing?
No, it would eventually destroythem because that's something
I've I've thought about as well.
Like, uh, you know you're,you're like romero zombies, like
if they were out in the sun allthe time, they would eventually
just dry out and just becomehusks.
And like, wouldn't a zombie ifthey, if they had any, uh,

(21:18):
self-preservation instincts hideduring the day.
And uh, that was another thing,sorry no go ahead oh no.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Like writing the book , a lot of times I was like,
well, do zombies do this, dozombies do that?
Like like sleep, I was like, dozombies sleep?
And there's no like like oneanswer, like it's different
everywhere.
So a lot of times when I wasmaking decisions like that, I
was like, okay, like I have tojust decide and then create the
world around that or createtheir, their beings, around that

(21:48):
.
Um, there's just a lot of likelittle questions I would have
and I realized, well, zombiesaren't real, so there's no
actual right, yeah do you evergo on the reddit channels about
zombies?

Speaker 2 (22:00):
I a couple times yeah I have found them to be
fascinating because they talkabout zombies like they are
indeed real.
It's like cosplaying in a way,but it's like you know, this is
what zombies are and these arethe things we have to do to
protect ourselves.
But it's a good reminder, anddoes make me feel safer at night
, that they are not real.
Yeah, and I think what's coolwith the genre is you can make

(22:21):
them whatever you want to makethem, and you definitely made
some very specific choices aboutyours that are not
run-of-the-mill.
Um, I think that's part of whatmakes it interesting, and also
the fact that there's like anexception to the rule in rod
being sentient is really curious.
How long was he dead for beforehe was awoke, awakened is that
the word awakened?

Speaker 3 (22:40):
so originally I was gonna have it be like 10 years,
but then I was thinking aboutlike well, if he comes back to
life and he's been dead for 10years, like he'll basically just
be bones.
So I changed that and I didn'tgive a specific date, but in my
head it's like maybe a year.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
That feels about right, because he is definitely
rotting, but still functional.
Yeah, the other main characterin your book is bethany, who we
thought was secretly dating ourrod.
Can you tell us a little bitabout her and what inspired her?

Speaker 3 (23:09):
yeah.
So, um, I had the character ofrod and originally I wanted him
to be kind of more like alovable, goofy kind of guy.
Um, that changed a little bit,like he's still like lovable and
everything.
But I was.
I wanted something to counterthat.
So I was like I want Bethany tobe this like like miserable not

(23:30):
miserable, but like grumpy,like kind of grumpy sunshine
kind of thing.
So I started her with that andthen, as I wrote, her character
kind of developed a more of abackground.
Like her home life isn't great.
So a lot of her experiencesbefore the apocalypse were very

(23:51):
she lived in survival mode.
So when the apocalypse startsshe kind of emotionally
transitions very easily Becauseshe just she knows she needs to
do what she needs to do tosurvive.
Um, she's been through it.
So, um, her goal is to protecther sister and, um, just survive

(24:12):
.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
So yeah, in some ways things haven't changed for
Bethany.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
I mean they have she's living in a max Mart.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, I think that's an interesting thing to consider
too is that she was in survivalmode, because I think a lot of
us that have lived in survivalmode, I think a lot of times we
do kind of fantasize about theworld changing in such a
dramatic way like a zombieapocalypse, partially because it
would erase the currentapocalypse that you're living in

(24:39):
, and also you're alreadyprepared for survival because
you've already been doing it.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, so that's kind of what I tried to do with
Bethany.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, it kind of puts everybody else on your level so
that you can just continue withwhat's normal for you and
everybody else has to adapt fora change.
Yeah, I have a very seriousquestion about Grim the Squirrel
.
If Grim the Squirrel bitesanother squirrel, is that
squirrel going to be more of aRomero-style dumb squirrel

(25:15):
zombie, or does it become one ofGrim?
Is it a different?

Speaker 3 (25:20):
squirrel, I think one of Grim.
I would say, yeah, but if Grimbit another squirrel he would
try to eat it.
Oh, I don't think he would justbite it to let it live, but
yeah, he it would.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
The idea is, if rod or grim or one of the sentient
creatures bites another, itbecomes that way so there's kind
of a split, actually, of twokinds of zombies you could
become maybe they should bebiting more, more people and
squirrels, right, you know if,if, if what they're going to
create is like a little bit more, uh, mentally there, like maybe

(25:56):
it would be better for theworld if they bit more people
maybe at one point, oh sorry, goahead no, no.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
At one point in the book bethany wants rod to bite
her.
For that reason she's like ifyou bite me, I'll become like
you, I'll be able to walk aroundwithout being afraid, and so
that's kind of something thatplays a role in it a little bit
yeah, because she could walk.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
She could walk amongst them at night and she
could also walk around in theday, because the humans seem
mostly interested in killingeach other in your world, right,
yeah, that are left, which issuch a disturbing reality of
humans that's happening rightnow, sadly, uh so I don't think
it's a stretch that people wouldbe like that in the apocalypse.
when you were trying to figureout, like what is the dynamic

(26:39):
between rod and bethany, wasthere anything like surprised
you as you wrote them and you'relike, oh, this is the direction
it needs to go in?

Speaker 3 (26:45):
I kind of had, you know, like when I outlined it, a
lot of things kind of went offof what I originally thought,
but their relationship waspretty stayed pretty on track,
like the hesitation for her totrust him and his loneliness
kind of driving him to want tobe closer to her, and it all

(27:05):
kind of stayed on track.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
What was your favorite scene to write about
them?
Is there one you can share?
That's not a spoiler.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, I do have one actually.
So Bethany's thing throughoutthe book is that she gets mad
when people call her Beth andshe likes to be called Bethany.
So at one point they're tryingto get away from zombies and
they're like climbing on arafter in an auditorium and
Bethany slips and Rod likelunges to help her and he's like

(27:32):
, oh, Beth, and she like screamswhile she's dangling from the
rafter it's Bethany, I don'tknow.
I just love that.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
She's so like adamant about like no, that's not my
name, so I like that yeah, she'skind of fearless and has a very
strong point of view of whatshe wants and how she should run
, how the world should be runand what.
What she wants, uh, otherpeople to do for her.
And it is interesting to seerod's dynamic.
It almost reminds me of like um, I don't know if you follow

(28:03):
attachment styles, but I wouldsay like she's like avoidant,
she's not so sure about rod, andcautious at first anyways, and
then, but rod is has an anxiousattachment style.
He's like I want to be aroundyou all the time, I'm obsessed
with you yeah, I will doanything for you, like yeah,
which is actually a very commonrelationship dynamic.

(28:25):
So even when it's a zombie and aperson in the apocalypse, there
was still something veryrelatable about that.
Um, I felt quite bad for rodjust because I was like buddy,
you gotta take it back a couplesteps.
I know you're lonely, go hangout with grim for a minute
you're gonna to be okay.
So you mentioned Bethany'slittle sister.

(28:45):
She's also a major motivator inthe story and it seems like a
lot of Bethany's purpose forkeeping going is her sister,
abigail, and you dedicated yourbook to your own sister.
I'm curious if you could shareabout how your own sister
inspired this book, or what isthe connection there.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yeah, so my sister passed away last last October.
Um, I hadn't started writingRod until a couple months later.
Um, I, a lot of my books,actually have very deep sibling
connections.
I'm one of five, um, so I'vealways had a very strong

(29:22):
relationship with all of mysiblings and, um, so, besides,
romance, like that's always beenkind of like what drives people
, what motivates people.
That's not greed or anythinglike that, like something
genuine that motivates people.
And I would say, family, likeyour siblings, stuff like that.

(29:43):
So I do always use, you know,sibling connections big in
anything I've written.
So, but, yeah, I dedicated thebook to her with a quote.
I actually wrote the quotebefore the book was even written
.
I have like a note notessection of like, like quotes

(30:04):
that I think of for books that Imight want to use in the future
, or like character traits, um,that I might want to use on
characters like, just likelittle little things.
So after I, or while I waswriting Rod, um, I went back
into my notes app and I saw thatone and I was like that would
be really great to dedicate toher and um, so I used it in the

(30:26):
book as well would you mind,could you read the quote for us?
oh yeah, let me just open it.
Um, so our time together wastoo brief, but I'm so grateful
to have known you that'sbeautiful.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Thank you for sharing about that and I'm sorry for
your loss.
I also I've one of one of fourum with my family dynamic and
Dan, you're one of five, two,there's so many of you.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
I mean, it depends on which family you're counting.
But yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
I think five is the official count yeah, that
dynamic was really stronglywritten and I could feel
Bethany's like willingness to doanything she could for her
sister, which is reallybeautiful and, I think, an
amazing tribute to your own andyour own family.
So thank you for sharing aboutthat.
Yeah, um, I'm curious if howwarm bodies and Santa Clarita

(31:17):
diet and the the combination of,like, grief and humor sort of
showed up for you in that spaceof writing this book and also
processing a loss in your ownlife.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah.
So I definitely kind of usedcertain parts to vent my own
emotions and when I went back Icleaned up a lot of it Because I
was like, oh okay, like I'mjust talking about how I'm
feeling, because I've neverexperienced loss like that or
grief, and I think using undeadcharacters for that is a really

(31:49):
great metaphor, because it'skind of I mean, I don't want to
say obvious, but it's a littleobvious and just being able to
just use them to kind of showthat just kind of helped me
through it.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah Well, I can't remember where I heard this, it
was recently but they say whenyou lose somebody, you lose them
twice.
Uh, first when they die andthen when you move on and, like
the, the undead are kind of justlike that remnant of them
sticking around after.
So I mean, I guess in I guessin the zombie apocalypse it

(32:24):
would almost be like three timesyeah I think it's um.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
it is interesting because it's an underlying theme
across the zombie genre isgrief and death and like, how do
we deal with death as a?
Um, a people in a culture, andit's not something we talk a lot
about elsewhere.
I think that's part of why thegenre is popular, um, because
it's a way of grappling with it,so it makes a lot of sense, um,
but that's one way to to writeand process it, and I think what

(32:49):
came out was a really excellentbook.
I would I would say to peoplewho are listening is, if you're
looking for something that ishard to put down um has twists
you don't expect and charactersthat you love and also are mad
at then you should read r theZombie.
That's how I would, in anutshell, how I would describe
it, because that bond betweenher and her sister is really
beautiful and it's also reallynice to have that as well as a

(33:13):
romance.
It's not just about thissituationship, it's complicated.
That's what it would be onFacebook, I'm pretty sure.
Speaking of relationships, ifRod could give relationship
advice, what do you think hewould say?

Speaker 3 (33:29):
I don't know if I would listen to his advice, but
he would say I don't, I don'tknow, I hadn't thought about
that, I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Relentlessly pursue them yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
That's not good advice.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Put yourself in dangerous situations.
That's not good advice.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Put yourself in dangerous situations constantly
yeah, um, I don't, I don'tpersonally have kids.
Uh, leah doesn't have kids.
We do have dogs, but um, it'skind of different a little bit,
a little bit.
Uh, I'm also I'm also not ateacher, but I wonder you're,

(34:07):
you're teaching your parentinghow do you also write at the
same time?
Like, how do you balance that?

Speaker 3 (34:17):
I write at night, after my kids go to bed.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
When do you sleep?

Speaker 3 (34:21):
It's really it's really like it's.
Honestly, it's something I'veenjoyed doing for so long.
I didn't finish a book foruntil last year, but I've
written for so long and I just Iwas like, oh, that would be
cool to be an author someday.
And then one day I was justlike, well, why not Like?
And then I thought about it andI was like, if I do this, I'm

(34:44):
going to be investing a lot oftime and probably money and just
a lot into this.
And I was like, is it worth itIf it doesn't pay off, if nobody
ever reads it, is it worth it?
And just in my head I was justlike I have so much fun coming
up with stories, I have so muchfun writing them, I have so much
fun marketing like it's, it'sfun for me.

(35:05):
So I'm like, even if I don'tsell a single copy, like it's,
it's something I enjoy.
So like after the kids go tobed, I get excited and I go and
I write and I or I take picturesof my book, or like I don't
know, like research, otherthings.
Like it's it's fun for me.
So it's it's really not aboutfinding the time, it's I can't
wait.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Like I'm like I can't wait to write again like so
it's nice yeah, it's, itdefinitely sounds like it's for
you then, because, like you know, the the the biggest marker for
somebody.
If they're, if they're like Idon't, I don't know what I
should do for a living, um, it'slike, is there something that
you can make money doing thatyou would do for free, for fun,

(35:45):
if, even if they told you thatthey can't pay you to do it, um,
is there, is there a way tomake money from that?

Speaker 2 (35:51):
because that sounds like probably what you should be
doing I mean in a world wherewe don't have to worry about how
to like.
I think in an ideal world allof us could be pursuing our
dreams in that way, and I wishthat that was more the case for
me too.
But I think it's also likeimportant the work that you're

(36:12):
doing with raising your kids,with being a teacher.
Does that inspire at all theway that you write when you
think about your role as asomebody who's helping young
people figure out how to bealive and thrive in this world?

Speaker 3 (36:24):
young people, figure out how to be alive and thrive
in this world.
I actually only recentlyfinished school to become a
teacher.
I was working in the insurancebusiness for a long time and I I
did not enjoy it and it was alot, of, a lot of like sad
conversations because it's it'sa mess.
So I was, I I did think aboutit and I was like, what do I

(36:47):
want to do?
That I could feel good aboutmyself and I'd already had my
kids at that point and I waslike, well, I do love kids, I
don't know.
So I went back to school andthis past year is when I first
started teaching.
So and I've honestly reallyenjoyed it.
It's exhausting and way harderthan I thought it was gonna be,
but it's really enjoyable.
Kids are so great.
So I really, really enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
So this is not only you.
You wrote and published yourfirst book in the last year, but
you also started being ateacher in the last year changed
.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
And then you still were like.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
You know, what I'd rather do than sleep is write my
book.
I'm impressed.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Thank you, I I I've been working on these things for
a long time, but I will say,after my sister passed away, I
it it just kind of put life in.
I don't know, I don't know howto say it.
It just made it, I don't know.
For me, like losing a siblingwas very like, it was like
hitting a wall.
I was just like, oh my gosh,like this is it was, it was real

(37:48):
and it was raw and like nobodyI spoke to could understand and
nobody really knew what to say.
So I was like what do I want?
And, and, honestly, writinghelped not that this is a
healthy answer, but like ithelped distract me from like how
, how, how upset I was and and Imean everything was kind of a

(38:09):
distraction for a while, but itit was better than doing
something else.
I guess she sorry if I don'twant to talk about this, but she
passed away from alcoholrelated illness, so she had a
drinking problem, and a lot ofpeople in my family have had
drinking problems forgenerations, and I actually

(38:30):
stopped drinking about threeyears ago after my son was born,
and so finding things to keepme busy, especially when I'm in
that vulnerable state, was veryimportant, whether that's school
or writing or doing somethingwith my kids or whatever.
Because, honestly, if I wasstill drinking after she had

(38:50):
passed away I, it just wouldn'thave been good.
So, yeah, I'm I'm grateful forthe choices I made in the past.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
So, Well, that's, that's really great foresight
that you were able to have inthat moment, yeah, that you were
able to have in that moment.
Um, yeah, I.
Another another parallel that Isee upstate New York is, uh,
you know, functional alcoholismas as a common, like as a, yeah,

(39:17):
as a as a culture, like as atradition, almost.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Um, it's really bad.
Addiction's very bad here.
Like not just my sister and andnot just alcohol like I.
I see it all the time.
All the time like I've lost somany people to addiction and
it's really upsetting becausethey're not bad.
People like she wasn't a bad,she was a lawyer, she was a good
person.
She's she was in her 40s.
It's not like she was, I don'tknow, and it's just, it's sad

(39:44):
and I don't know what to doabout it, but it doesn't mean
there's not a better way.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
I don't know.
I think you speaking about itum is really vulnerable and
brave, so thank you for sharinga little bit more about what
happened to her, and also yourown choices and the struggles in
your family.
I'll say I think I'd mentionedto you in an email like I've
lost my sister was from cancer,so a different reason eight
years ago.
But I, I hear you when it'slike people don't know what to
say, and I also come from afamily with a lot of alcoholism.

(40:09):
So I think the fact that youmade the choice a very difficult
choice, because it's not easyto stop anything I mean, it's
not easy to stop eating icecream, let alone something that
is actually like an addiction orcould be an addiction, like an
addiction or could be anaddiction uh, to make that
choice every day and instead sitdown and write a book and

(40:29):
create something really powerfulthat can help other people.
And also, you know, it could behealing for other people
because they can relate to whatthey're reading, but it can also
be a distraction when they needit too.
That's a healthy and positivedistraction.
That's um, that's its own formof magic.
I hope you're really proud ofyourself.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
Thank you, that's really nice, nice of you to say.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Oh, I'm, I'm getting emotional.
I think that's really, um, maywe all find that like that spark
in a way to, to, to channelwhatever pain and suffering
we've been through intosomething really, um, special,
what and again, like whether itwas just for you or you have
readers already I'm one of themis rare, so I hope more people

(41:11):
get it.
I hope people listening to thismight feel more inspired to do
the same thing, if they're notyet.
Dan is reading to find aquestion.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, I'm a very slow reader.
Yeah, actually, on the topic ofwriting, I've learned that
there's a few writers among uswho are also slow readers.
Are you a slow or are you afast reader?

Speaker 3 (41:47):
goals and stuff, and it's like 203.
I'm like I read one book amonth, Like, and that's me
reading every night.
Like I'm a slow reader.
Um yeah, and honestly, thissummer I haven't.
I just feel like summer is sobusy with the kids, we're always
like running around.
So I honestly haven't read abook this month.
But yeah, I'm a slow reader.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Yeah, I, I'm right there with you.
Like I, I I actually writefaster than I read, which is
perplexing to me.
Um, a question that I wanted toask is do you have a special
playlist when you're writing rodthe zombie?

Speaker 3 (42:18):
um, so I did make a playlist, but not for a while
I'm writing.
I need like I can't havedistractions when I'm writing or
else I just I can't concentrate.
Um, but I do have a playlist,um, yeah, and I think a good one
.
Like I like to pretend likethis sounds silly, but like if
it was like if Rod the Zombiewas like a show, like what would

(42:39):
his uh theme song be?
Or something like that.
And I'm like I think creep byradio head, I also, and like
zombies obviously by thecranberries, like so it's all
like that kind of stuff yeah, Iget that.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Yeah, I was snooping through your Instagram.
I have a scheduled post comingout after we finish interviewing
you, just so you know, and thiswill be in the past for
everybody listening.
But I was creeping yourInstagram and I found one of
your posts that had, like, somesongs that you really loved and
I was very excited to see uh, orthat would like go with the,
the book, and I was excited tosee the cranberries there but I

(43:14):
think creep from radiohead likeif you were somebody who wanted
to listen to music while readinga book.
If you have the ability to dothat, that would be perfect for
any rod, especially the partswhere he's alone, it's like
exactly I was like.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
I just thought it fit him and the the setting really
well yeah, um, so this issomething that I learned from
leah, because, um, I don't,actually I don't know, I don't
know how this came up.
So this book Rod the Zombie,you published, you went the

(43:50):
indie route, you self-published,but the next book is going to
be traditionally published.
What made you decide to go thetraditional route after going
the indie route?

Speaker 3 (44:02):
So it's actually the other way around.
So the other book I wrote firstand a publisher it's actually
the other way around.
So the the other book I wrotefirst and a publisher it's not
released yet.
Um, a publisher like I signed acontract and everything, um,
and honestly, I had alreadystarted writing rod when all
that happened.
And it's been very and I don'tknow if this is just my

(44:23):
experience, but it's been verylike I email them and they're
like don't really get back and Idon't have a lot of information
on the book.
I'm like I just I want to keepgo, go, go going, you know?
Um.
So then when I finished, rod,like I pitched it to them and
they gave me the same like offerand I was like, well, can you
give me more?
And they couldn't.
So I was like, all right, likeI'll self-publish this one and

(44:46):
see, like just kind of compare,I guess so, and so far, this
one's way more fun, like I, Ican do whatever I want.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yeah, um, so I mean to a certain extent, what are
the biggest differences, youthink, between the two, like
that you've experienced so far?

Speaker 3 (45:02):
well, honestly, I gave them the book for them to
edit in january and I that's.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
That's the last I've heard from them, really so
that's the difference, is youjust haven't heard from them?

Speaker 3 (45:14):
basically, um, and like I get little updates, like
we're still on course, we'restill like whatever, um, which
is fine.
I kind of figured it would belike this, because the contract
says it would be within a yearand so you know we're still a
ways away from January.
Um, but with Rod it was justlike it was fun to like make my
own stickers, to like do my owncover, like to to just kind of

(45:36):
like get things rolling and toreach out to bookstores and like
introduce myself and I don'tknow.
I just feel like I'm more incontrol with it and it's it
makes it more fun.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
I don't know I just feel like I'm more in control
with it and it's it makes itmore fun.
Yeah, for a lot of people thatcan be really overwhelming to
have so many things you have youhave to do.
But if it's something that you,that you truly enjoy, I can see
how like having all that extracontrol.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
Yeah, no, I definitely do feel overwhelmed
sometimes, but I had pushed backthe release date and to give
like double the amount of time Iprobably needed, so that helped
.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Yeah, because we got the preview copy.
I'm trying to remember whatmonth it was, but you definitely
had things pretty much ready togo for a while, so do you have
any advice.
Like for somebody who'sself-publishing for the first
time, it seems.
On the surface, it looks likeyou've got it all together,
catherine.
What?

Speaker 3 (46:28):
advice would you give ?
Or like what have you learnedalong the way?
um well, I'm totally winging it,so I'm glad it comes across
that way but, um, honestly, mybiggest advice would be to find
other writers in your area,because I'm a part of like a
bunch of different groups onlike, Instagram and stuff and
it's just nice to be able to belike hey guys, guys like, what
do I bring to my first booksigning Like that.
Like that alone is just nice tohave like real people and

(46:51):
instead of like like a Googlesearch and people to talk to
about that.
But like, and I learned littlethings.
Like another indie author, Iwas like what's the difference
between publishing throughAmazon and IngramSparks?
And she was like well, if youpublish through Amazon, local
bookstores aren't going to wantto buy it because they're their
competitor.
So I was like, okay, that's abig like.
I just things I never thoughtabout.

(47:12):
So definitely, people like.
Finding people is a big one.
At least it has been for me.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
I think that resonates for us.
I think I love that.
It's because we've been verylucky to build this community
and be a part of the community,which is extra fun for me as the
non writer.
I mean, I've Well, I amcurrently writing something, but
I don't know if it's ever gonnago anywhere.
It's ridiculous Aside, it'sbeen really inspiring to do that
, but everybody we know is allaround the country and also

(47:42):
across the world, and so what'sit like to have people local?
Do you actually get togetherwith them?

Speaker 3 (47:47):
So one of the girls had a book signing at a Barnes
and Noble near me, so I went andlike met her that way.
But other than that I've onlytalked to them online.
But it's really nice becausethen they see like local things
and then they're like, oh,there's an event over here and
they just kind of fill you inand it's really nice Like, oh,
for I don't know where she lives, but Joe Salazar.

(48:08):
I met her, or I didn't meet her.
I talked to her online throughyou, guys, um but she like sent
me an event.
Yeah, basically, Um, but shesent me an event that's
happening in September and shewas like, oh, this might be
something, so like it's justnice to have people.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
I don't know, just people in your corner, I guess
feeling of competition betweenbetween authors, like it's a
collaborative experience andthey know that like just because
you sell some books doesn'tmean that that they are going to
sell fewer books.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
so everybody's just helping each other because you
all have this combined love fora thing yeah, no, I agree, like
they do not gatekeep, likeeveryone's been very open and
just really I don't know reallyreally kind, which is nice.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Yeah, and it sounds like you're the kind of person
that will pay that forward too,as you're learning, as you just
did, just by sharing a littlebit, and I think it's cool that
you're having the experience ofboth traditional and indie
publishing, because that's youcan make some really informed
choices in the future.
What's your other book about?
Is it also?

Speaker 3 (49:23):
related?
No, it's not.
It's like a dystopian fantasybook.
Um yeah, so I'm excited aboutthat yeah, we do like other
books.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Contrary to the name of our podcast, I I actually
lament the fact that I don'thave time to read anything but
zombie books sometimes becauseI'm like, because I'm also a
slow reader and I have to saywhen you shared that it, every
time somebody else admitsthey're a slow reader it makes
me feel better, because booktalk and bookstagram it really
is.
I feel like such.
I just I'm like, I feel like animposter because I'm like I

(49:55):
like the same thing.
I'm getting through a book amonth it's typically the book
that we're talking about on theshow and it's hard for me to
even get that done Like it's arush.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
So yeah, like I'll see people's monthly books and
I'm like you read 16 books thismonth.
I'm like how?

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Some people can, but sometimes I do wonder if, like
especially some of the biggeraccounts, if they are just
taking pictures of books andreading the blurbs.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
I would love to say that's true, but I have met
these real life people who havegoals of reading Like I.
Have one person who I workedwith whose goal is to read 365
books in a year.
I'm like that's one a day.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Yeah, are these short books?
No?

Speaker 2 (50:38):
And I think it's like let's be honest with ourselves
we would have to stop watchingtelevision.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
I'd have to quit my job.
How would you have?

Speaker 2 (50:45):
kids.
They didn't have children.
I don't know how somebody withkids could do that.
Or yeah, or a full-time, likekids plus full-time job.
Sometimes I just want to starevacantly at the television and
watch Big Brother right or.
Love Island or whatever otherstupid show I like.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
They'd have to be like my grandma.
Back in the day I shared astory with some of our friends
about my grandmother, who was avoracious reader, so much so
that I saw her driving throughthe parking lot of her grocery
store once and I was waving ather and she didn't wave back and
I was just like hello, I'm overhere, it's your grandson.

(51:23):
And as she drove by I realizedthat she perched on the top of
her steering wheel, she had abook open and was reading it so
dangerous and I told my familyand no one believed me.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Oh my God, do you have anybody that you credit for
inspiring you to become awriter?
Is there any family trait there?

Speaker 3 (51:47):
um, so my cousin is actually an author.
Her name is Kathleen Kuntine.
Um, so I was definitely likeafter she wrote her book, it
kind of I was like I, I justlike motivated me to keep going,
and then my sister has alwayslike written but never published
anything.
So it's definitely something Italk to my family about and talk

(52:08):
about, so it definitely kept megoing, for sure when did you
know that you wanted to like letthis be the thing that drove
you and actually startpublishing?
um, probably I think I made thedecision like two years ago, but
it just was a long road.
Like I started things anddidn't finish them.
It was just figuring out whatworked for me.

(52:28):
Like, if I outlined not enough,like didn't have an ending to
my book, the book would justtaper off and fizzle out If I
put two too much information inmy outline and then went off
track.
I just couldn't figure out howto get back on.
So, just like, figuring outwhat worked for me took a really
long time.
Um, and then I just kept going.
And then once I wrote one book,I was like okay, I can, I can

(52:50):
do this.
Like I know I can do it, I didit already.
Um, so then I wrote another.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
So are you working on another book right now, or what
are you doing beyond gettingready for the next book to come
out and promoting Rod the Zombie?

Speaker 3 (53:04):
Nothing right now.
I have ideas, but nothingthat's like motivated me enough
to actually start writing it.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
So is there going to be a Rod the Zombie 2, rod's
Revenge-ening?

Speaker 3 (53:16):
So I've been back and forth about that because when I
first started writing I waslike, no, I want this to be a
standalone.
And then I I first startedwriting, I was like no, I want
this to be a standalone.
And then I like loved mycharacters.
I was like, oh, I love theseguys, like I want to see what
happens next.
And then I edited the book likea million times and I was like
I never want to read this bookagain.
But now that I haven't read thebook in like a month, I'm like

(53:39):
I think it would be fun to seewhere it goes like a month.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
I'm like I think it would be fun to see where it
goes but I, I don't know yet.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
I mean, I love a series I love.
I love getting deeply invested.
Yeah, a lot of like uh,speaking of advice we've heard
recently is like the series isreally helpful to have, but I
also appreciate a book that'sself-contained.
But it sounds like, uh, rod thezombie is pot.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
It's possible more could happen like it definitely
ends where it could be the end.
But like I like those bookswhere you, after you read it,
you kind of like just wonderabout the characters and I kind
of left it like that.
So I'm like it could, it couldbe a sequel, but it's definitely
the story's done.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Yeah, I think those are the most satisfying.
It's like when you read a bookand it leaves it on a
cliffhanger, which was, I'mtrying to remember, with the
hunger games.
If it was like that or not, Iknow there's been series I've
read where I'm like did youreally just end it here?

Speaker 3 (54:26):
did you do this to me ?

Speaker 2 (54:28):
and then you'd have to wait a year or two years for
the next book to come out.
It's only every time I boughthardcovers was that kind of
torture, so thank you zodiac,the zodiac academy did that to
me.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
It would end on a cliffhanger every time you know,
I think, I think it's actuallysmart to have, like, even if,
even if you don't continue, uh,and make a series like, having
that self-contained story isactually a really great way to
start a series.
Like, if you think about all ofthe great greatest trilogies,
the first movie doesn't end inthe middle of the problem.

(54:59):
They fully resolve the problemof the first movie and then the
two following it are sequels ofeach other.
So if you look at Star Wars,star Wars is a self-contained
story in one movie, but theEmpire Strikes Back leads into
Return of the Jedi, and allthree of them make one giant

(55:20):
story.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
But you could finish at one and be satisfied.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
I appreciate being like not being left totally
decimated and needing the nextbook and having to buy the
hardcover.
I'm having flashbacks toTwilight, that's so not that
serious.
Anyways, I am curious to hear alittle bit more about, like who
came first, bethany or Rod, andwhat was the spark.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Rod came first, bethany or rod?
And what was the spark?
Uh, rod, rod came first.
Um, like the idea of rod camefirst and then the name honestly
came pretty much right after Iwas like oh it would be really
funny if there was only onezombie, uh, that could actually
like think and had its humanityor whatever.
And then, um, I was likebrainstorming names and rod

(56:02):
zombie came and I was like, oh,that would be so funny, and this
is also how our rod zombie wasnamed, yeah, so like if
something like makes me giggle,I'm like that, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna grab onto that.
So that's kind of how ithappened.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
I mean it is brilliant because like it's like
a title that like somebodylooks at and they have to look
at it twice.
That's, that's just catchy,that's good.
Like that's something thatpeople are gonna pick up and be
like what the hell is this?
This is, this is.
I can't believe this book isnamed this.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Has anybody tried to draw Rod the zombie yet?
Have you seen any like fan art?

Speaker 3 (56:41):
I had one one girl do a commission.
I think it's on my Instagram,but I think she did a really
great job.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
I'll have to go and look at that.
I kind of want to do like aside by side of our Rod and your
Rod and be like not or not?
Which zombie would you date?
What has it been like to?
I know you're.
You're, as this episode'scoming out.
It's going to be officiallyreleased a couple of days later,
and so you've been sharing somepreview copies.
People have been able to doadvance order.

(57:10):
But what has the reception beenlike at this early stage so far
for you, and how has that felt?

Speaker 3 (57:22):
People like the reviews and the feedback I've
gotten in person has been reallypositive and at first I was
worried because a lot of it wasfamily and I was like, okay,
well, obviously they're going tosay nice things.
And then once it went out toARC readers, like I started
getting feedback from them andI've been really, really happy
with what I've heard so far.
So it makes me really happy.
Is it scary to put?
yourself out there like that, ohmy gosh, I was more afraid to

(57:44):
tell my family and people I knowthan I was like strangers and
I'm like I don't know.
Just it's just weird.
But yeah, I was very, veryscared.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Why do you think it's scarier to tell people that are
like in your life?

Speaker 3 (57:56):
I also like I wasn't like very open about writing
either.
So when I started telling myfriends, they were like you
wrote, like you write, and I wasjust like, yeah, like I have
like casually for a while and Ijust I just never published
anything.
So it was just like that wholeconversation of like yeah, I
write and yeah, I've been doingit for years and yeah, this took
me a long time and now I'mdoing it.

(58:17):
So it was just like a weirdconversation, I guess, and but
but it but, but it's fun.
Everyone's been supersupportive and kind and it's
been fun.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
That's really nice.
I would feel very vulnerable tohave my fam I I just recently
let my mom listen to the podcastand, um, that made me so
uncomfortable I was like, oh no,I can't make as many dick jokes
as I usually do.
And then we did anyways.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Yeah, we did anyways.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
So I get that because it just it's like showing I
don't know.
It's like showing your familyyour underwear.
It's like not a thing that younormally share.
I don't know I can't think of abetter metaphor right now.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
I mean it's personal.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
No, it makes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, very personal.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Yeah, my, my mom is a is a writer and um, and I, I
don't specifically really wantto read her book, and it's not
because I don't think it's good,it's because it's too intimate
and like I don't.
I don't like it.
Might it might seem weird tofor somebody to feel that way
about their family member, but Ifeel like it's just a really

(59:23):
deep and personal thing thatit's like I'd rather just be
your son over here atThanksgiving.
I don't want to know the innerworkings of your brain.
Yeah, and it's the same way.
Like once I finish my book, Idon't really want my family to
read it, because it's personal,it's intimate, it probably has

(59:45):
stuff about them in it well,yeah, I think all books do in
some way.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Yeah, um, because what else are we referring like?
It's about ourselves and otherpeople.
Is it weird to like?
Is there anything about bethanyor rod that feels particularly
like?
Oh yeah, that's me writing alittle bit of myself into this.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
Um, I definitely in the grief aspects for Rod.
I definitely did a lot withmyself.
And then Bethany, kind of likeher a little bit bitter outlook,
but in the end she's like opento the kind of mind this Rod has
to show.
Like I can see myself in that.
But I do use, like I said, Ihave a notes app of like

(01:00:22):
personality traits, personalitytraits and like things I try to
use, and there's one thing I dothat I wrote in there Like
somebody who always like saysyes, three different ways Like
oh yeah, yep, like I don't know,like little and I'm like I do
that yeah, yep, okay, I know Ido that.

(01:00:43):
Oh, yep, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah,yeah.
I would like to say it threetimes, like in three different
ways.
And I'm like, so I wrote thatdown, I was like, and then, and
there's one thing, there's acharacter Wes in in Rod, um, I
had something written down likesomebody who always, uh, like um
, ends a sentence with atemperature.
So he's like oh cool, oh,that's hot.
Like like little things likethat, like little quirks people
have.
That I've seen and I'm oh, thatwould be a funny little thing

(01:01:03):
to add.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
The two scariest people to be friends with are
writers, and like psychologistsor psychiatrists, because I just
know.
Catherine's like oh yeah, leahlaughs funny.
I'm going to incorporate this.
I'm kidding.
I know that literally, but youare observers of humanity Like
that's part of what being awriter and a storyteller is is
like noticing these things aboutpeople, that and also the level

(01:01:27):
of self-recognition that youknow that you're a three yes
person.
That's very funny, do?

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
you think you'll write any more zombie fiction?
I think so.
Like when I first startedwriting it I was like, oh, this
is so random, but I had so muchfun like figuring out where
they're going to live in theapocalypse, what's going to
happen.
Like it was a lot of fun for meand what made it different from
my other book?
Like my other book is like adystopian fantasy, so it kind of
takes place in a differentworld, so it's very different.

(01:01:57):
Like this one is rooted in onour planet, so it was nice to
have like the reality ofeveryday life.
But then throw in magic andzombies.
Like it was like, yeah, theycan use cell phones, but there's
also dead creatures after them.
Like I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Yeah, and I appreciate the mat, like I
appreciated the magical zombietoo, cause I don't think we see
that as often as we see, likethe virus zombie, the bacterial
zombie, the bacterial zombie oreven now, like the mushroom,
zombies have become reallycommon.
And so that like origin story of, without saying too much, how,
the how I think the zombies cameto be, because, just full
disclosure, folks, I'm I'm twothirds of the way through Rod

(01:02:37):
the zombie.
So I don't have all the answers, which is also why this is
tempting to ask you everything,but I need to just read it to
know what's going to happen next.
Uh, but I think I think I know,I think I have a theory, a
working theory, of what happenedand it's fascinating and
different from anything elseI've ever seen, so that's very
fun to weave in.
Um, do you think you'd keepgoing down the magical zombie
route, like, even if you're notfollowing the rod, the zombie

(01:02:59):
world, or would you do somethingdifferent?

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
um, I'm not sure.
I hadn't given it, thought I'mnot sure, but it is fun to write
, I don't know like the humanperspective in that whole thing,
like what the choices peoplemake and the things they have to
do when it comes down to it,which I really enjoy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Yeah, you know something that I that I like
about um, the magical zombieorigin is that it's it's
mysterious, and I I thinksometimes people will give away
too much about what has madethings happen the way that they
happen, and sometimes it's goodto just like be like yeah,

(01:03:36):
people are coming back from thedead.
We don't know why, and magic isexactly that.
It's just just like there'smagic.
Magic happened.
You tell me how magic works.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Yeah, because even if you can know who is I'm trying
not to give a lot of weight likewho is involved in the magic
there's still the mystery of howthe heck that works, like you
can't ever fully answer that.
And also something about azombie coming back to life.
I feel like that's not doneenough anymore.
I always just see like, otherthan like the instantaneous
you're bit and then you comeback.
But people rising out of theirgraves is also not a thing that

(01:04:08):
I see very often anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
Yeah, I realized that I was rereading, I think,
hunger Games or maybe some otherbooks and I realized that, like
, as they tell the story, theydon't give details.
Like a paragraph of details,they she says something and then
the reader just kind of fillsit in.
So I was trying to do that alittle bit like because when you
get like like overwhelmed withinformation in a book, I feel
like it's easy to like fall outof it.
Yeah, so I tried not, I don'tknow get too detailed, because

(01:04:36):
obviously I did like weirdresearch about zombies and
undead or dead people, I don't'tknow.
You know what I mean Like, andI'm like the reader doesn't want
to know that Like they justthey just need to know the
surface level and then they canfill in the rest with their
imagination.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Just enough.
It's like it's, it's a, it's atipping point, you know.
Just enough to let them know,like, what's actually going on,
and enough for them to use theirimaginations, like, once you
get that yeah juice flowing intheir delicious brains.
You know, that's that's when,that's that's when the story
takes off for the readers, when,when their brains are filling

(01:05:12):
in those details yeah, and thatallows for that interpretation
of the art too, for everybody tohave their own experience
reading it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
I think that's really cool and I love that you are
like when you're reading a book,not only you experience reading
it.
I think that's really cool andI love that you are like when
you're reading a book, not onlyyou're reading it, but you're
also studying how it's written.
That's a whole other level.
Do you do that too?

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
I try to, but that's a lot to hold on to.
I honestly don't know if Iunderstand writing well enough.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
But I don't think I would have noticed that Just
because I'm just enjoying thebook, you know.
But it's a very good point.
There was something I was goingto ask you.
Sorry, it's a lot, I've lost it.
I hate when this happens, whenit's just gone.
It's gone, I'm sorry, I'm sosorry It'll come back and then

(01:05:56):
I'm like darn it.
I should have asked you andmaybe we can have a follow-up or
something like that.
Is there anything?
Well, actually, just as anaside bar, because all of what I
just said will be deleted fromthe actual episode, is there
anything we haven't talked aboutthat you wanted to get more
into or share about before westart to do the wrap up?

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
I don't think so.
That was everything.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
I had in mind.
Okay, awesome, I really okay.
Sorry, I'll do that, I will.
Just the one thing I forgot totell you was that we'll do our
outro and we'll say bye together, but if you can like stay on
for a couple seconds after, thatwould be awesome.
Once or twice somebody's justhung up and I'm like oh no, that
was to the audience.
Okay, do you have anotherquestion you want to ask Dan

(01:06:36):
before?

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
we start wrapping up.
I have a question.
Yes, let's pretend that you arewriting a sequel to Rod the
Zombie.
Are we limited to zombies, orwould a sequel also have
vampires and werewolves?

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
Oh, in Rod's world probably just the zombies.
But it would be fun to write abook with vampires or werewolves
.
I would definitely enjoy that.
Would there be more zombiesquirrels I hope so I like Grimm
.
He is very cute.
What?

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
if it's the rise of the squirrels.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
The squirrels are taking over.
I mean that would be a greatvengeance story because
squirrels really are amazingcreatures and live in a very
dangerous world of humanity yeah, food for thought.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
Yeah, you're welcome you could write a children's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Is that inappropriate ?
You have kids.
Can there be a book about fromthe point of view of grim for
kids?

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
that could be cute is there a way to make that?

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
child appropriate I'm sure there's something there
okay, I love just telling peoplelike, please write this thing
for me, I'm not doing it.
Uh, so where can listeners findyou online?
And, most importantly, go andget rod the zombie for
themselves yeah, so I havewebsite katherinebreencom.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
I'm mostly on Instagram, klbwrites.
Yeah, that's where I am andyou're doing some events, right?
Oh, yes, I'm doing a book fairin Philadelphia on August 9th,
so right after the book comesout, so I'll be there, and then
I'm doing a book signing atBarnes and Noble in the mall
near us, destiny, and then inOctober I have a couple of

(01:08:28):
events that are local as well.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Yeah, we just did our first in-person con and I
thought it was going to be.
I thought it was gonna be scaryand awful and now I'm like, can
we do more?

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Yeah, I was gonna say , if there's any in syracuse
that you think would be awesome,um, oh yeah, let us know,
because we're not that far fromyou.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
We're only a few hours away my mom will want me
to come visit just don't tellher I won't tell her no, I'm so
nervous to do like an in-person.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
I've never done so, I don't know.
I'm like I signed on for three,so now I'm like maybe I should
have just started with one andsee what went.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
So I mean, you manage how many children in a day?
Your own, but then also kids atschool yeah, like 20 yeah,
you'll be fine, yeah, you'll be.
So, just apply.
I'm sure that some of thosethings are still applicable.
Um, what's your worst fear?

Speaker 3 (01:09:21):
honestly that that I'm gonna stand there and
everyone's gonna walk by, so I'mgonna have like stickers and
stuff and I don't know.
But it's fine, my friend'scoming with me, so I'm just
gonna hang out and, yeah, justkind of enjoy myself they'll
come and talk to you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
Um for sure that will happen, especially with the
cute stickers.
Grim is a great intro too forpeople, so it's very smart to
have that as a hook.
But also be forewarned therewill be people that won't leave
your table.
Okay, so have an outro.
That's my unsolicited.
Advice is have a thing that cansegue them away.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
Also find your exits.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Yes, because the zombie apocalypse could outbreak
.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
You gotta check the exits.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
But yeah, that's what I learned.
I was like, oh okay, like it'sfun.
But then you're like, hey, Ilike there's other people like
oh no, that person wanted topotentially talk to us, but I
can't because you're still hereand it's been two hours, and
like maybe we need to figure outa way to segue that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Yeah, and then sometimes you're like you know
what?

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
I will talk to this person for two hours yeah yeah,
I bet you it's gonna be awesome.
Um, can't wait to hear about it.
Can't wait to celebrate yourbook being officially out just a
couple days after this podcastis released, so everybody stay
tuned for that.
But you can also pre-order itso you can get it real fast that
way.
And, um, it's been a pleasuretalking with you, catherine.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show and creating our

(01:10:43):
favorite zombie.
Rod the Zombie.
Are you going to do the outroDan?

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Yeah, and thanks everybody for listening to us
the Zombie Book Club people, thepeople that make this podcast.
This is the best outro.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
I think we need a lot more.
You need more caffeine.
I do.
I ran out, I'm out of caffeineLeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Anyways, if you want to support us, you could leave
us a review.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
We like those, those help us Five stars please.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
If you don't like us, you can just not do it.
Yeah, if you don't like us, youcan get out of here.
That's what I say.
Uh, you can also send us avoicemail at 614-699-0006.
Actually, if you don't like us,send us a voicemail because
that'd be amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
Yeah, you don't even have to say who you are yeah,
but no, but no.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
But don't no less than five stars send us a
voicemail instead.
Uh, you can follow us oninstagram at zombie book club
podcast, or you could join ourour Discord of lovable weirdos
in the Brain Munchers Collective.
Ollie made it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
There's a whole bunch of people there.
Yes, go find them.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
But thanks everybody for listening.
The end is, it's nigh.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
Baby, bye, bye, bye, don't die.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
Bye, everybody, bye-bye, oh my God.
Bye everybody, bye.
Thank you, catherine Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
We did it we did it Yay.
How was that for you?
Great Thank you.
That was awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Okay, good, it was really nice to get to know you
and hold myself back from askingall the questions.
I'm almost starting to think Ishouldn't read a book before I
talk to somebody, because nowI'm like I want to know if it's
maverick I want to know.
Spoil all the things I want toknow, yeah but I know I'm gonna
know, so don't tell me.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
But it is.
It is coming to a point wherewe probably can't read people's
books before we talk to them,because it's yeah, I just want
to talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
I want it to be like our own personal book club with
the author, which isn't whatwe're here for we didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
We didn't think that people would want to talk to us
when we started this.
Yeah, it was a surprise.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Yeah um is this your first podcast interview?
Yes, you did great thank you,yeah thank you.
I wanted to say like off uhrecording, although hold on, I
should stop recording yeah, I'lllet stop too, why not?
Uh, there it is.

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Rod the Zombie with special guest Kathryn Breen | Zombie Book Club Ep 107

Episode Transcript

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rod the Zombie with special guest Kathryn Breen | Zombie Book Club Ep 107