'The Collapse' with special guest Alice B. Sullivan | Zombie Book Club Ep 112 - Zombie Book Club

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I got pepsi on the microphone welcome to the zombie

(00:25):
book club, the only book clubwhere the book is a dog and that
dog will bark and give awayyour position.
I'm Dan, and when I'm notsnuggling my dogs, I'm writing a
book about the zombieapocalypse and so far no dogs
have died.
If the dog dies, we riot.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
I want people rioting in the streets and I'm Leah,
and today we are chatting in theflesh with Alice B Sullivan
about her zombie apocalypseseries.
We can't get enough ofAftermath.
Alice was born and raised inupstate New York, where she
spent way too much timepondering zombie apocalypse
scenarios.
I don't think that's the casein this room.
When she isn't chasing thingsthat go bump in the night, alice

(01:02):
is writing about different waysthe world could end.
But trust us, alice isn't justa killer storyteller with a cast
of characters as diverse as theapocalypse demands.
She's also so charming that shecould talk you right out of
your last pair of socks if shewanted to, but she uses her
powers for good instead, byhelping heal our furry friends
as a vet, tech andrehabilitation something,

(01:26):
something Mouse rehabilitator.
Rehab therapist.
Thank you, welcome to the show,alice, and welcome to the
zombie bunker.
Hi guys, happy to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
And by in the flesh we mean Alice is actually here
with us.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Like they kidnapped me.
Yeah, we did.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
And you are now underground.
Yeah, they fed me french fries.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
That's how they got me yeah, we did, and you are now
underground.
Yeah, they fed me french fries,that's how they got me here.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, 24k, it works every time before we get started
, I we've we've talked to a fewpeople from upstate new york at
this point.
I am a person from upstate newyork, you are a person from
upstate new York.
Damn right and I want to know,because I feel like this is core
to my storytelling what is itabout upstate New York that

(02:11):
makes you imagine a world thatis the zombie apocalypse and
want to tell a story about it.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Oh geez, honestly, it might have to do with the fact
that we're so close to NewYorkork city and, being near
such a big population, it makesyou think that if the zombie
outbreak ever started, that'sprobably where it would be and
how much of the aftermath wouldhit us.
Also.
New york is just, you know,beautiful.

(02:40):
We have our country land,because it's not all just new
york city.
We know that, but we have, like, our country land and our
suburbia.
So just like thinking about theaspect where there's so many
different places to go in thestate, because it's such a big
state that you could still youcould be driving for four hours
and still be in New York, butyou might be, and then you'd be
somewhere closer to where I grewup, exactly.
Exactly so.

(03:00):
You'd be in like and then you'dbe in country and then you'd be
in city.
So I think it's the fact thatthere's such a diverse situation
in the population makes it agood thought process.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
I guess that's pretty true and I don't think the
answer you were expecting Danbecause you have a very strong
bias.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Especially when you started talking about how it was
beautiful.
Oh my God, I'm like.
When I think about upstate NewYork, I think dismal and gray.
I think most of the year isbrown gray and a different shade
of gray.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Okay, and white?
Well, your shade of gray couldbe someone's shade of blue, oh
good point.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, you're right, there are big blue skies amongst
the brown and gray of upstateNew York.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
We do have beautiful fall weather.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
It is true, yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Beautiful autumns.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
I will say though, after living in Vermont,
vermont's killing it compared toupstate New York.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
I'd say New York's like sticks.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Sticks with some orange and Vermont is like
behold this beautiful afghan oforange, an afghan of orange.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, like an Afghan blanket.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
I was really confused , that's what it reminds me of,
like an orange Afghan blanket.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
This is going somewhere strange, alice.
Yes, we've got some rapid firequestions for you.
Oh God, 40 hour work week orzombie apocalypse, zombie
apocalypse.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Why?
Because, fuck, 40 hour workweeks, man, I'm tired.
I don't want to pay billsanymore.
I'm sick of taxes.
I'd rather just, you know, wakeup and be like you know what.
I know what I have to do, andthat's survive.
Yeah, yep, yeah, and it's notbecause I have to make a certain
amount of money to pay otherpeople that certain amount of
money to get food.
It's because I know that thereis a single villain and it is a

(04:41):
zombie, and I know I have tostrive against that.
Not that I need to make sure Ihave the specific amount of
money to pay someone else forfood or water plus you're a very
good forager I am, so thathelps yeah, but what if it was
the zombie apocalypse?

Speaker 2 (04:54):
and then and then you , you learned, unfortunately,
that the other people whosurvived the zombie apocalypse
were like the people who wantedyour money.
So, like your landlord, thebank, the cell phone company,
like what if all those peoplesurvived and they're like alice,
we want our money like okay,well, alice got eaten by a

(05:16):
zombie like two days ago brogood call.
It's easier to fake your deaththan the zombie apocalypse now
it's these days it's hard tofake your death.
Exactly so.
But in the zombie apocalypseNow it's these days it's hard to
fake your death.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Exactly so, but in the zombie apocalypse.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
You can just be like I don't know that person I
declare deceased.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
You cannot prove me wrong.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
There is one way to fake your death, and it's to get
your own teeth replaced withfox teeth.
My fox teeth, my specifically,I forgot what that TV show was
called.
That is so specific Because youcan find them on the side of
the road.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
There was a TV show.
We watched Girls 5 Ever.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yes, very great.
And this guy wanted todisappear forever, and so he got
his teeth removed so that theycould find his teeth, and then
he replaced his teeth with foxteeth.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
I mean it's fair how you identify people with their
dentition, but there's it'sbecause one of the main
characters was both a dentist,an oral surgeon Right and an
amateur taxidermist and she justhappened to have found a dead
fox on the side of the road andthis guy wanted his teeth
replaced.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
The look on Alice's face.
So we're just finding things onthe side of the road and
putting them in our mouth.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, watch Girls 5 Ever.
It's amazing Girls 5 Ever.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
It's amazing Girls 5 Ever.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Imagine a girl group like the Spice Girls, but they
become really famous and then,like 20 years later, they're not
famous anymore, but they wantto be famous.
But they have lives thatthey've had since Girls 5 Ever,
and that's the show and we'resticking fox teeth in look, when

(06:51):
you get to that point, you'llbe like, okay, this makes sense,
this adds up if you were inyour zombie apocalypse of your
dreams, alice, we're just.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
This is gonna be so unhinged, this conversation.
I love it.
If you were in a zombieapocalypse, what would be your
weapon of choice?

Speaker 3 (07:09):
oh that, hmm.
So I do not know how to fire agun, which is fine, because
ammunition is very scarce in theapocalypse anyway and not
everyone just has the correctammo laying around anyway.
So I feel like that would be amoot point regardless.
You would just be carryingaround a gun for funsies and
blunt force trauma maybe if youfelt like getting up close.

(07:30):
So I'd probably pick a baseballbat.
It's lightweight and it'sdurable and even though I have
to get up close and personal, Idon't have to get that up close
and a good swing to the head canknock them off balance if it
doesn't kill them dead.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
So I probably choose like a metal baseball bat yeah,
metal one would be great I thinkyou're at a really big
advantage if you, if you startin the apocalypse saying I'm
going to stick to melee weapons,I'm I'm going to become
proficient swinging somethingespecially something blunt yeah,
that requires no maintenancewhatsoever.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Well, because, like, people are like, oh, I'm going
to get the big guns.
Okay, well, can you do aheadshot?
Because headshots are verydifficult on a stationary target
, let alone one that's shambling, running, tripping over their
feet, because they'reuncoordinated and you're
panicking.
So do you really think you canland a headshot within the
magazine that you have?
Because I don't think so,because, like, even trained

(08:25):
professionals are trained to aimfor the bigger part.
So, like bodies, because it's,you know, like a torso, because
it's center mass.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, I think you're the first person who said metal
baseball bat specifically, and,if I remember correctly, they're
also very lightweight, whichwould be great to carry around.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Typically they're pretty light.
How do you feel about crowbars?

Speaker 3 (08:43):
Well considering, I just tried to pick yours up and
Ugh, exactly With that noise.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
I brought my pry bar out for.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
Alice.
So crowbars are very good.
I do agree it does take somegetting used to, obviously,
because I'm not used to usingthis, but it's not only good for
blunt force, but good forprying doors, open dumpsters,
anything like that.
So it's not only good for bluntforce but good for prying doors
, open dumpsters, anything likethat.
So it's multi-use, which is agood idea you want to pry
dumpsters open yeah, they'regood hiding spots, dude.
Oh, are you hiding?
A good point.
There's also food in there inthe early, okay, your?

Speaker 1 (09:15):
raccoon.
Um, okay, it's called being afreegan alice.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
It's a real way to call it, feral raccoon, but
that's fine.
So, yes, I think crowbars are avery good choice Because
they're multipurpose.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
This one's special.
I've talked about my pry barbefore Because it's enormous.
It's not your typical pry bar.
It's big and it's heavy.
It's what she said.
I wouldn't recommend somethingthat big this is big that's what

(09:50):
she said

Speaker 3 (09:52):
um I mean a standard size would be a lot better than
this unless, unless you're,unless you are big and strong
and beefy like me, but there'salso some that are, like, really
small I can deadlift like an 80pound dog, but tell me to pick
this mother effing crowbar upand I say oof.

(10:12):
So there's where.
That's where I'm at.
What's a standard size crowbar?
What is that thing?
What is this thing?
It's so cute.
Is this standard?

Speaker 2 (10:22):
that's a small crowbar and that is your small
crowbar can you describe whatyou're?

Speaker 3 (10:27):
holding alice, an 18 inch, 46 centimeter stanley
wrecking bar, and I.
It is so cute you can't forgetwhat's on it.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
I specifically picked it out for you because I know
it's one of your favorite colorsYellow Blue oh, blue.
Bow oh.
The crowbar is yellow.
The crowbar is yellow.
As our very first in-personpodcast guest, we felt that we
needed to give you a veryimportant and special gift, so

(11:01):
we hope that you accept thisoffering.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
Even though it's not a baseball bat.
I'm sorry, I'm not going todecline a crowbar.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Cheers.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
I love it so much and I think I could wield this in a
zombie apocalypse.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, I mean it's light.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
I definitely want one now.
I was having fun with it.
We can be crowbar buddies.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, we found it this morning and we were like
look, how cute this pry bar is.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
This is like perfect, because, like you can just one
hand it.
Yeah, you just go, yeah,straight through the eye,
through the eye.
That's where you got to aimthrough the eye.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Or through the neck.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
That way you can hold them all like at bay.
It won't kill them them unlessyou aim upwards towards the
brainstem.
But if you just aim right atthe neck just to hold them at
bay, it's good.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, hold them and then stab them in the head with
your knife.
Make them stationary so it'sbetter.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
There's just so many things like the claw end, like
you're running along in analleyway.
You need to reach up high tograb a fire escape ladder.
So you jump up you hook it, youhook it.
I mean they're up there high,you gotta jump.
Call me short Dan.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
Call me short Dan, just kidding, I'm short, I'm
like five foot three, it's fine.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, so maybe you need a bigger one, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
Size doesn't matter, dan, it's how you use it, and I
would still probably miss thefire escape.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, maybe, but my point is, it's useful.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
It's very useful.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's multi-useful, multi-functional.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
And I have my multi-tool in my car too.
So this is perfect I can breakinto houses.
I won't break into houses.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Disclaimer I actually have plans for you with that
and with Rod the zombie upstairsfor later.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Oh my God, that's awesome.
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
All right.
So you've got one unlimitedshelf-stable food item that you
can choose.
Some weird magic allows you tochoose, but you can choose.
It's the thing that you'regoing to eat for the rest of
your life.
What do you choose?
You see, we uh, we have many,many shelf stable foods, but you

(13:09):
get to pick.
You find like a warehouse okay,yeah what's?
What's your unlimited shelfstable food item?

Speaker 3 (13:16):
probably this is gonna sound really odd, but I'd
probably go for a fruit,probably either an orange or an
apple.
I don't really like citrus thatmuch, but I'd still probably
choose an orange, just becausenot only is it good for you and
it gives you vitamins andnutrients, it also acts as a
beverage too, and you can alsouse it for compost, that is

(13:38):
multi-purpose, but is it shelfstable?

Speaker 1 (13:41):
You said it was, it comes in a can.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
I didn't say it was.
That's not how it works.
I don't just.
I don't have the magic to makefruit shelf stable.
That is a good point, but thereis like drop, yeah, I did imply
it was.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
There's canned oranges yeah like little cans of
mandarins.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
Do you want me to pick something else?

Speaker 1 (14:01):
No, no, this is going to be our next chop challenge.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Oh nice, so moldy, oranges.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
No, they're canned oranges.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Canned.
I don't think I've ever hadcanned oranges.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
You can, can everything.
Dan Little tiny canned.
They're so cute, they're likelittle slices.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
But you know what?
I have had oranges that werecovered in chocolate, and I'm
pretty sure that they lasted along time are you sure?

Speaker 1 (14:28):
I don't know.
I'm gonna just come out and sayI mean this might be
controversial.
I don't like chocolate coveredoranges.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
I think it's fucking disgusting that's crazy I'm
we're gonna have to agree todisagree well, no, I don't like
chocolate on top of my orange,but I like orange with a hint of
what?
Wow chocolate.
No, I want chocolate with likethe hint of orange.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
My favorite is chocolate with raspberry it does
um make me think that maybe weshould dip all of our food in
chocolate and seal it that waywith the chocolate kind of like
a wax seal and like cheese Ihate to break it to you, but it
won't work because um a very, oh, my god, there's something in
my eye well, welcome to therecording yeah, that's what

(15:09):
actually happens, but havinggone on many, many interior
camping trips, I really can'tsee you very well.
This is what I'm learning.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
You're not missing much.
It's fine.
This is gonna be so hard topiece together let it be
everybody.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
I have an eyelash in my eye.
That's what's really happeningright now.
Um, but I've been on many acamping trip an interior camping
trip for canoeing many days,and one of the most important
things you bring is gorp.
Do you know what gorp is?
No, no, good old raisins andpeanuts is what it technically
is.
It's raisins and peanuts youtake with your camping trips yes
, okay, but gorp is the canadiansaying.
But uh, the version of gorp thatwe would do would be like all

(15:45):
candy, basically.
But I learned the hard way thatthe chocolate melts and then
fucks up everything else.
Yes, because again, chocolateand like a sour patch kid is not
good oh yeah, what are the sourpatch kids doing in there?
they're well I would be acombination of sour patch kids,
chocolate covered almonds, um,those little sour watermelons,

(16:10):
the peaches, all those kinds ofcandies, and then I would throw
in some nuts and seeds and sothe almonds melted and it was
healthy, like the chocolate yes,the chocolate will melt and
fuck everything up, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Well that sounds horrible you could pickle things
.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
It sounds, it sounds horrible.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, Just just like all, all of all of those gummy
things together with peanuts andraisins alone Sounds awful and
like it doesn't.
It doesn't need to be, itdoesn't?
It doesn't?
The chocolate doesn't need tomelt for that to be an awful
combination of things.
I think that you should justhave nuts, raisins, dried fruit,

(16:48):
maybe some dehydrated bananaslices, some almonds you're just
ruining it, though and M&M's.
It was tastier before ask thenext question because I'll still
be able to hear you.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
I'm going to go over there and try and take this out
okay, why don't you do that?

Speaker 2 (17:05):
and then we'll continue, but it's an eye drop,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
I think there's like literally a hair in that.
This leads me to the last rapidfire question I want to ask you
today.
We'll have more for the future.
Okay, the love of your life ismy dog oh boy oh no, I think we
just stepped in it do we keepasking the question do you let

(17:30):
them bite you, do you put themdown out of their misery, or do
you let them go, just go be azombie dog?

Speaker 3 (17:36):
so if it was a human, I would ask them what what they
wanted me to do, because Ithink it's important to take
them into consideration insteadof my own feelings this is what
I I mean by.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Alice is a very nice person.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
So some people want to know how zombies live.
Some people don't want to turninto the zombie you know what I
mean and some people wouldrather you live on and not worry
about them.
So if it was a human, I wouldask them what they wanted me to
do, and I would respect theirwishes.
Since the love of my life is adog, I would know that she would

(18:09):
want me to keep going and shewould want me to be safe at all
times, and if she knew that shewas putting me at risk, that
wouldn't make her happy, so thebest thing I would have to do is
say goodbye.
I'm so sorry, that's okay.
That's okay.
I'm so sorry, that's okay.
It makes sense, though.
I mean, your dog wants you tobe safe and protected, and if
she knew that she couldn'tprotect you from herself, the

(18:33):
only way to do that is saygoodbye.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
It's true.
The only other viable option isto just let them bite you and
you can be zombies togetherforever.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
That's very true, but when I'm mindless, I wouldn't
be able to recognize her and Idon't think that I would be able
to live not knowing that I wasrecognizing my dog so you've
written a lot of books.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, you've written so many.
How many books have you written?

Speaker 3 (18:56):
oh, geez, I have to do math in my head yeah, we're
asking you to do math oh my gosh, I'm a vet tech.
I'm not a mathematician.
Uh, one, two, three, four.
What am I?
Some kind of a math scientist,right?
I'm not an engineer, dan.
One, two, three, four, five,six, seven, eight, seven right
books, wow yeah, that's, that'sa couple short stories and how

(19:19):
many of them are the aftermathseries?
uh, so two are in the mainaftermath series.
So I have the collapse, whichis book zero, and I have
yesterday is gone, which is bookone, and then I have two
supplemental companion storiesreturn, which is a novelette,
and destination tomorrow, whichis a novella the collapse is
book zero of the aftermath, thenyes, um, that's what I read

(19:42):
this last week.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yes, same yeah and um , and this is like, uh, I what I
love.
I love a book zero because,like it's, it's all the
questions that you have in abook one.
Um, that was the point.
It's the like.
Like this is this is for thepeople who want to know, want to
want to know some answers.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yes, uh what you don't know is happening right
now is alice is veryaggressively using the crowbar
to express your opinions, wavingit around, pointing at us.
I have to do something with myhands, intimidating honestly, um

(20:21):
, yes, so to go off of that.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
So the reason why it's book zero is it plays on
patient zero, which you find out.
Patient zero in the book, likeyou did so, is the zombie
outbreak scenario.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Um, and it tells the backstory of my main character
and the virus and the apocalypseitself, but it was more so a
planned patient zero, and howthe outbreak starts I don't
think I've ever actually read apatient zero, um like breakdown
of how things got started in theway that you did the collapse,
and I really enjoyed it, thankyou.
Uh, to see what was happeningbehind the scenes and the people

(20:55):
responsible, yes, and then alsoto follow someone as they got
infected, and that whole journeywas super fun, yes yeah, that
was fun to write.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
Like I like the different point of view is
because the main point of viewis first person but the tell of
the outbreak is through thirdperson point of view so you
mentioned to us that thecollapse wasn't meant to be
necessarily.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
You hadn't planned on writing it, so how did it
become a book?

Speaker 3 (21:21):
so I had the story of the Aftermath series in my head
for like a decade, um, I justnever felt like I was a good
enough writer yet.
So instead I did short stories,I did like microfiction, all
that stuff, um.
But I knew that this is a storyI wanted to eventually tell.
I knew my characters, I knewtheir backstories, um, and I was

(21:43):
living down in Texas at thetime, and when I moved back up
it was during COVID, so like Icouldn't get another job right
then and there.
So I had a lot of free time andjust like one morning I was
like you know what I need towrite?
And so I just started writingSadie's backstory, and at first
the collapse was through Sadie'spoint of view.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Oh, oh, wow, yes, as like a seven-year-old girl who's
the character in the Aftermathseries.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yes, the main character in my Aftermath series
.
So she's seven years old in theCollapse and at first it was
told through her point of view.
But then I was like this isvery limiting and not as big of
a scope as I wanted it to be.
So I thought whose point ofview could give me and the
reader just the scope of things,and I was like you know what
I'll do her mother.
So I had to had to rewriteeverything.

(22:30):
That was great.
I had to rewrite everything fromkaren's point of view, but
having sadie in it and doing herexperiences with it, because,
you know, parents want toprotect their children, shield
their children.
They're worried their childrenwon't understand what's going on
.
They don't want to protecttheir children, shield their
children.
They're worried their childrenwon't understand what's going on
.
They don't want to scare theirchildren.
They kind of keep them ignoranton purpose.

(22:50):
And while you're reading thecollapse I'm not sure if you
picked up on it, but you could Iwas hoping that you could see
sadie's frustration with thefact that every time she asked
her parents a question she justgot oh it's okay, it'll be fine,
nothing's wrong.
And at one point sadie juststops answering, gets up and
walks away.
Yeah, at certain points.
So you could see thefrustration.

(23:11):
Even though she's seven yearsold, she still sees things
happening.
So I I wanted to still showsadie's experience with the
outbreak, but from a point ofview that could, that could give
the scope that I wanted to give, which was karen's point of
view.
And then, when I was done, Iwas like you know what, I'm just
gonna publish this for fun.
And so I wrote it in threeweeks whoa what?

(23:33):
And yeah, so fun fact.
Um, when I sent it to my editorwhich they're awesome, I love
them, been working them, likewith them for years they really
only changed like commaplacements.
So commas will be the death ofme.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
They were like you got to take this out, I was like
no, Pry my comma out of my cold, undead fingers.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
I want it there.
And they're like it doesn'twork there.
I was like fine, You're theprofessional, I'm just the
author.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Here you are with your college education Exactly
Understanding of the Englishlanguage.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
Dang punctuation.
I wonder if she was team Oxfordcomma or not.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yes, I was, there was a comma I love, I'm team Oxford
comma too there's a comma.
So yeah, so fun fact, liketechnically, the only things
that really changed in thecollapse between me writing it
and me giving it to the myeditor was just a bunch of comma
placements, wow.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Three weeks Did you just go into a hole and not eat,
drink or sleep?

Speaker 3 (24:30):
No.
So I, my body, hates me.
So I would wake up between likefive and 6am, right Cause I'm
used to waking up to take careof horses, cause you know they
have to eat at the ass crackdawn for whatever ungodly reason
.
So my body, after moving homefrom Texas, was still used to
that.
So I would wake up, make myselfmy cup of coffee, because I
can't live without it, and Iwould find a way in the

(24:53):
apocalypse, I swear to God, I'dfind a way to get my coffee and
I would just sit down at thetable and I would just write,
write, write, and then I wouldtake some breaks to eat, hang
out with my sister, and thenevery morning I just wrote and
wrote until I was done.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
I wish I did something useful during COVID.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
You existed.
That's pretty useful.
Well, you know what?

Speaker 2 (25:13):
We moved, we did.
Yeah, I was In the middle ofCOVID.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah that's useful.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Leah was working hard .
I was packing a U-Haul.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
There you go so poorly.
You gotta be good at.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Tetris, he was not what you just heard.
There was Alice with thecrowbar, sorry, hitting the
microphone.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
Dan just made me really mad by saying he did it
poorly, he did.
I got really upset.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
I did what I felt was a good job, and then Leah did a
better job after.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
But you know what?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
I got the bulk of it in there.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
I'm not commenting, it was a nightmare.
The biggest thing that willtest a relationship is moving.
I think, yeah, I believe that,true, I'm proud of us.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, you know, you touched on something that I
think a lot of people who becomewriters feel, which is like not
knowing when you're a goodenough writer to write your book
, like not feeling like you'regood enough.
What was, what was it likedealing with that?
Like what?
Like you, you said that youjust decided to do it.

(26:15):
Um, like what, what made youdecide that you were good enough
?

Speaker 3 (26:20):
so, since the thank you, thank you, um.
So since the collapse was neverreally meant to be anything but
a backstory, I think I lost allthe imposter syndrome because I
didn't have any expectation forit.
But with yesterday's gone andthe aftermath in general, I have
.
I had this expectation becauseI wanted it to be the story that

(26:42):
I told I wanted to be asperfect as it could be.
Because I wanted it to be thestory that I told I wanted it to
be as perfect as it could be,because I wanted to do my
characters justice.
I wanted to give my readers agood experience, feel all the
things that I feel when I thinkabout it.
So, because the collapse wasnever meant to be, I kind of let
go of all those expectationsand I was like you know what,
I'm just going to write it andwhatever happens happens.
And at the end of it I liked ita lot, to the point where I

(27:07):
would reread it and I'd be like,oh crap, I wrote this and I was
like surprising myself and likeI had really good, like
positive feedback from betareaders and advanced readers,
and so I was like you know what,I'll just publish this.
So, even after I published that, I still did not believe I was
good enough to write Yesterday'sGone and I went through a lot

(27:27):
of imposter syndrome with thatstory and that's why it took me
so long to write that book, eventhough it was the book I had in
my head for like 10 years.
It was tough yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
It was tough.
I think that when you do let goof the pre-context of needing
it to be good in my experiencethat's when I've always done my
best.
When I say in my brain I'mgoing to write some absolute
horse shit, that's when magicflows from my fingers and all

(28:01):
the words just come onto screenand I'm like I I meant to write
something terrible and it'sactually pretty good.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
Well, yeah, cause like you stop like it's not,
like you stop caring, but youstop hindering yourself, so you
don't hold back and you kind ofjust let go and let the words
flow.
I think that's the best thingyou can do for yourself, because
if you just sit there and youthink about a single sentence
for like an hour, then you onlythought about a sentence for an
hour, when you could havewritten so much more.

(28:31):
If you just wrote, even if youthink it's horse crap at the end
of it, at least you wrotesomething and it can be edited.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yeah, you can always fix it in the edit.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Exactly, and I think that's where a lot of new
writers get caught up with isthey just keep on rewriting what
they've already written ratherthan moving forward hey so I
know I was like, damn, maybe youneed a collapse version, like a
thing that you're just gonnawrite and not care I think
that's what I already wrote Imean?

Speaker 3 (28:59):
well, because before, like technically before the
collapse, I wrote my short story, unraveled for like this Reddit
short story competition and bythe end of it I loved it and I
was offering it for free onlineand stuff like that and I didn't
really take it seriouslybecause it was just a short
story competition, but it wasjust one of those things where I

(29:20):
didn't really have anyexpectation for it, so it came
out easily and I got it doneimmediately.
So I just think that we put somuch pressure on ourselves with
certain things that we get lost.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
And it's a really great story and, like I said,
like I understand thatoriginally when you were writing
it you were just kind ofexplaining for yourself, yes,
the history of Sadie, which nospoilers.
It's traumatic, folks.
You're welcome.
I may or may not have texted uh, alice, after reading and being
like I can't believe you justdid that.
I am upset, but also I'm extraexcited for my um the dead or

(29:57):
rising t-shirt with the pictureof trooper on the back.
So you knew that sandy wasgoing to be one of your main
character, like the maincharacter for aftermath.
But there are some otherimportant characters in the
collapse that set us up for thecollapse.
Do you want to tell us a littlebit about?

Speaker 3 (30:11):
them.
So in terms of like her familyand All right, yeah, so not sure
how much I can totally saywithout giving some spoilers,
but we have her mom, we have herdad and we have her puppy,
trooper, and trooper plays a bigrole obviously not only is she?
like the goodest girl.
Obviously she's this yorkshireterrier that her mom and her dad

(30:34):
got her for her seventhbirthday, which makes the
collapse a little bit moretraumatic because her birthday
was literally like the monthbefore you're welcome, um.
So you know, we have her dad,who's a stay-at-home dad, we
have her mom who works for bigpharma, so medicine, vaccines,

(30:55):
all that stuff, um, and thewhole point is, you know, they
have some things they did intheir past they're not proud of,
but they're moving forward.
They're trying to be this happynuclear family, which they are
happy.
There's really no lie about it.
There's no smoke and mirrors.
They are a loving, happy family.
Gerald and Karen love eachother very much.
They're very supportive of eachother.

(31:20):
Does dive into the territory ofnot trusting your daughter's
reactions to the truth and justkeeping them ignorant, which you
see in the next book how thataffected sadie so much growing
up in the apocalypse, um, so wedo have karen and gerald, who do
play a big part in howeverything sort of happened to
the family itself.

(31:41):
Unfortunately, jared uh, jared,wow, g Gerald plays a center
role with how the ending happens, unfortunately, but they do try
their best as Sadie's parentsand they both had Sadie's best
interests at heart, even thoughthey were at war with each other
a little bit on the decisionsthat were made.
But then you also have ToddEvans, who is their friend and

(32:07):
the a cop of their city.
So they live in wake forest,north carolina, and todd is kind
of relaying the information tothem about the outbreak and
everything that's happening.
Um, so todd has his own familywhich you only hear like
mentions of, but todd stillplays a very vital role in the
collapse with relayinginformation to karen and gerald

(32:28):
about what's going on in theoutbreak.
And then you have, like ourscientists who did all of this,
unfortunately, the good guys.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
I mean frank eastman did try his best, okay yeah, he
just one of them's, not a goodguy, he just made some errors,
errors along the way, you know,he tried his best.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
So Frank is one of the scientists that do try to
make things a little bit better,but along the way he makes an
error and because of that errorit kickstarts the apocalypse.
And then you see that throughthe third person point of view,
his story with the otherscientists involved and his

(33:09):
error, how it caused theoutbreak from this animal to
this person who is patient zero.
So you'll get patient zerodemise, unfortunately too I
really enjoyed that part.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Maybe I wasn't as emotionally attached to them so
I was like, yes that's fine.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
You're not really I'm enjoying.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
I'm enjoying this.
I can't say very much about howit happens without spoiling it,
but it was a fun journey and umit also.
I've seen maps from the classbefore for you and I was like,
oh, I could like picture in myhead.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah, um, thinking about the map, how it goes from
point a to point b along theeast coast things, yeah as
they're getting sicker andsicker, yep.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Um, I'm curious to hear, like, more about the theme
around trusting children toknow, or be able to understand,
what's going on.
Um, why was that an importantlens for you as sadie?

Speaker 3 (33:59):
so I used to work with children.
I was a teacher's aid forthree-year-olds and
four-year-olds and I worked asan after-school supervisor for
three-year-olds to 13-year-olds.
So I feel like a lot of peopledon't lend enough credit to
children.
They think that children justdon't understand, they won't
understand, they will overreact,underreact, or it's just better

(34:22):
to keep them ignorant, and Idon't really believe in that.
I know a lot of people do andfrom my own experience I've been
kept ignorant from my loved one, which is fine.
They try to protect you intheir own way.
There's nothing wrong with that.
So in Karen's case, geralddidn't want to keep Sadie
ignorant, but Karen was veryadamant about shielding Sadie

(34:45):
from what was going on.
So I just think that whenthings do happen, you have to
trust your children to at leastunderstand to a certain degree.
You don't have to tell themeverything, but in terms that
they'll understand, so they knowhow to keep themselves safe and
to report things to you if theysee something.
That's weird, because there isa point in the collapse where

(35:07):
Sadie sees this man quoteunquote in her rindle and she
doesn't know what's going on andshe freaks out.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Which is riskier to her to not know.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
So because she doesn't know what's going on if
she sees, like, if a kid sees astranger, that this is a zombie
apocalypse scenario.
So if they see a stranger,that's an actual zombie, they
don't know, they don't know tostay away.
So I just think that keepingkids ignorant isn't always the
best course of action, becauseas long as they know a little
bit of something, they'llunderstand.
Kids aren't as like, their mindisn't as immature as we think

(35:39):
they are.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah, and knowledge is power.
I learned that from GI Joe.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Exactly, and as a former kid, I agree.
I may not have children, but Iremember what it was like to be
a kid and to have a sense ofthings that were going on in my
home.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
But everyone's just like lying to you, but being
deliberately left out of it, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Being lied to and I remember even saying to my
parents at one point like I knowwhat's happening, without
giving too much of my own storyaway.
I just was like I know what'shappening, I don't know why, or
so, um.
So I really felt thatfrustration from Sadie and I was
very glad that she had her dog.
Well, I was having a trooper inthe story, something that you

(36:16):
were like absolutely have tohave a Yorkshire Terrier so when
I was 10 years old, I askedSanta Claus for a pet.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
I had been asking Santa for a pet for a very long
time and all I got were likestuffed animals or this for real
kitty that me out, even thoughit didn't have batteries in it.
So that was scary.
Um still loved it and I treatedit good in case it was haunted.
Um, but when I was 10, santafinally brought me a Yorkie

(36:46):
named Bella.
I named her Bella.
She was, she was a senior, andI think that's where my love of
senior dogs and senior animalsin general came about.
I loved her.
She was my best friend until Iwas 18.
I had to say goodbye to her,unfortunately, but I've just
grown up with Yorkshire Terriers.
So my mom's bosses, they usedto have an army of Yorkies and I

(37:08):
just wanted an army of Yorkiesever since then.
Just like, seven or eightYorkies running around.
That was magical.
I wanted that, so like.
And then my sister also got aYorkie from Santa and I was like
I want a Yorkie, why can't Ihave a Yorkie?
And they were just like there'ssomething about them, I just
find them.
They're sweet, they're spunky,they're just magical dog that I

(37:32):
just I can't get enough of.
So after I had to say goodbyeto Bella, who was my heart dog
at the time growing up, I founda new friend.
Her name is Scout.
She is the love of my life thatyou made me kill off,
unfortunately, I'm really sorry.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
That is fine.
I forgive you.
I love how you say that it'sfine, but I know it's not fine.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
I forgive you.
So Scout is a senior pup now.
I've had her for 13 yearsaround there and I just knew
that in the zombie apocalypseshe would be my zombie
apocalypse partner.
No doubt she is spunky.
She would protect me at allcosts.
She even though she isn't bigand scary, you know, she would

(38:07):
still alert me if I needed to bealerted.
She would distract, she wouldfight someone who tried to hurt
me.
So I just think that having aYorkie in my books just meant a
lot.
So I based Trooper off of Scout.
I just think it means a lot,because a lot of people don't
give credit to little dogs.
They have a lot of spunk andYorkies are just this magical

(38:31):
dog for me and they just make mehappy.
Yeah, I like a dog that you canpick up and take with you
Exactly, and if you need to getthe hell out of Dodge, you pick
that motherfucker up and you go.
You can't do that to a Doberman.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
You don't have to like bargain with it, you know.
Tell it what to do, you justgrab it.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
You're like we're leaving now.
We're leaving, yeah we outiescoutie.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Meanwhile, the other day, nero literally sat his ass
in front of that door rightthere and wouldn't let me leave
because he's a big boy and hewas like I'm not I know you're
gonna lock me in here becausethere's construction people in
the house and I have you'relocked in here with me, that's
how I pictured him laughing.
I will admit that I was a.

(39:11):
I did have a bias againstlittle dogs and little dogs, if
you're listening.
I'm really sorry.
I'm sorry for the way that youwere discriminated against
including by me in the past.
I don't know why.
I think I just always had bigdogs.
But I have now had enoughexperience with little dogs to
realize they have their ownspecial place and value, and I
love some of the artwork thatyou've made or you've had made

(39:35):
of Trooper and Sadie together.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
It's adorable.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
In fact, you got us these really awesome T-shirts.
You'll see pictures of themwith this episode of Trooper.
Is this actually a picture ofScout?

Speaker 3 (39:46):
No, it was.
I couldn't get her to sit anddo a good photo with me.
Unfortunately, every time Itake out the camera she runs
away, unless she has like a sockin her mouth, I don't know why
so I just uh, that's a png thatI found online that I was like
this is trooper this is exactlytrooper.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
It is very cute and I think, what's great, um, and
very helpful for those of usanimal lovers who love to read.
Some zombie look.
Totally fine with people dying,but when an animal dies, not
okay, absolutely you should know, uh, that on the back of this
shirt for the aftermath seriesit says if trooper dies, we riot
and the dog will never die dogin any of your series.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Hashtag the dog never dies invincible dog yes,
invincible dog, yep so you aresafe from the trauma of dogs
little dogs are fast, they canoutrun a horde.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
They can weasel their way through a horde better than
and don't get me wrong, I loveall dogs.
They can weasel their waythrough a horde a lot easier
than a bigger dog can.
They can get into small spacesthat zombies can't get your
extra terriers were bred to bemousers, so they hunt snake mice
rats that's what they were bredfor Could get you your next

(40:53):
meal Exactly.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
So maybe that is your food source.
Your shelf-stable food sourceis all the snakes and rats that
your Yorkie brings home.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Again not shelf-stable.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
I was going to say, yeah, it's as shelf-stable as
oranges are.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Canned oranges Dan Are we?

Speaker 1 (41:10):
on can rats, now Ew Can snake.
I don't know why thisdiscussion is giving me so many
childhood flashbacks Cause I'malso remembering going to a
family reunion and somebodybrought a jarred snake.
It was like a pickled jarredsnake.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
No no no, they were.
They were eating it.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
It was like a jar, yeah, of their pet.
No, no, no, they were eating it.
Oh, it was like a jar, yeah, itwas pickled, quite a large jar
and there was snake in there andthey're like do you want some?

Speaker 2 (41:35):
And I was like no, you want some pickled snakes.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
I don't want pickled snake.
Maybe that's why I don't lovepickles.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Oh, maybe it all makes sense, Because you're like
no, it tastes like snakes.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah.
What does a snake taste like?
I don't know, because I havenot eaten one.
Neither have I.
I've picked up a rattlesnakebefore, though I know Daryl
Dixon also eats snake, so likeit's a thing.
Well, good for him.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he had a pink snake Again in the
apocalypse, I would eat a snake,I think.
I'd rather just go hungry.
Your limit is yeah, I thinkthat's okay.
I wouldn't be able to hunt.
I'd be like, no, you deserve tolive more than I do.
Oh, I would just be out thereforaging pretty much, yeah, or

(42:18):
maybe I don't.
I don't, I wouldn't need a bug.
I'd feel too bad.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
I'm a terrible person no, you're just gentle and kind
and love all creatures.
That's terrible.
Uh, sadie goes on to be in yourother books, moving into the
series.
Not all of them, but many ofthem, yes, what is it about
sadie that maybe we should know?
Um, going into the series like,what is it about her that you
love?
Uh, what can you tell us aboutthe future of her experiences in

(42:43):
the aftermath, without givingtoo much away?

Speaker 3 (42:46):
so with sadie as a character, she has gone through
a lot.
She has her faithful dog,trooper Pause Hero.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Ready.
What was happening?

Speaker 3 (42:59):
Nipples.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Tell us more about Sadie and where we can see her
going in the next couple ofbooks.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
All right.
So you know, a lot happened tosadie in the collapse and as the
series goes forward we see howshe grows up in the apocalypse
and adapts to the events thathappened in the collapse.
Um, so, based on herexperiences, without spoiling
the book, it kind of shapes herinto the person she is.

(43:30):
So in Yesterday's Gone she isin this community and she wants
to be nothing but helpful andhelp her community.
She doesn't want to be someonethat needs to be saved, and you
reading the collapse would knowwhy she doesn't want to be
someone who needs to be saved.
She wants to be useful.
She doesn't want to feel likeshe's a burden and because of
that it motivates her to be sortof someone who is perfect.

(43:55):
But she can't be perfectbecause nobody's perfect.
And because of that mindset itgets her into a lot of trouble
in Yesterday's Gone because shetries to be someone that is kind
of out of reach for anybodybecause nobody's perfect.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
One might say she has attachment issues from what
happens in the collapse she has,yes, so she has.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
So she has guilt, she has regret, she has all these
emotions that she technicallyshouldn't even feel.
But you know, we're human,we're irrational and we can't
help it.
So, because of all theseemotions, where it takes her is
making decisions that sheshouldn't really be making in
the, in yesterday's gone, whichkind of sets a lot of things in
motion.
Anyway, for yesterday's gone.

(44:37):
So in the rest of the series yousee her sort of evolve into the
person that she wanted to be,realizing that she never really
wanted to be that once sheachieves it or if she achieves
it and then her moving past itand all of this guilt and regret
that she might have to becomewho, who she was just always

(44:59):
meant to be in the first place.
So she just kind of see hercharacter growth, um, based on
the events from the collapse andwhere it takes her in the
series.
Because she does have hermorals, she does have her ethics
, and those morals and ethicsalso get her into trouble later
in the series.
So she does have sort of a bigcharacter arc.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
That isn't the best, but that's the point a flawed
character is the best characterbecause you can see them grow.
Yeah, and she's seven in thecollapse.
How old is she?

Speaker 3 (45:31):
and yesterday's gone so she's 18, so there's a decade
time jump.
Yeah, like I said, the classwas never supposed to happen.
Um, it was just supposed tostart with yesterday's gone.
But because I had the collapsehappen, there was the decade
jump between the collapse andyesterday's gone.
But I do plan to write a bookbetween the collapse and
yesterday's gone.
But I do plan to write a bookbetween the claps and
yesterday's gone to showcase theevents in between those books a

(45:54):
0.5 yes, that's exactly what itwill be.
It'll be aftermath 0.5 oraftermath one half that's
actually that's a fun name.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Aftermath one half yeah yeah it'll be that after.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
After half, after half, yeah, I got a little bit
of a taste of book one at theend of the collapse and, like
the collapse, definitely reallyit geared me up for like the
very big shift in like differentstories between the two.

(46:33):
Yes, because like what little Igot to experience, I'm like, oh
, this is a different kind ofstory.
Yes, and now things are goingto get real in this story.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Yes, so in yesterday's I mean, things were
real in the collapse, but yeah,but in a different way though.
Sadie was left out of it tillthe right bitter end yeah, and
then everything kind of camecrashing down at her and then in
the and yesterday's gone.
You realize how much thataffected her as a person.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's why I love zombiebooks.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
This is another great example of like a zombie book
that I think touches on what itreally means to be human and
like common experiences ofchildhood trauma and then trying
to figure out who you are.
Growing up, um, and realizingat some point like, oh shit, I
have been impacted by whathappened to me and that is
shaping my choices maybe not forthe good, it sounds like in her
case, so I'm really curious tosee how that follows her so at

(47:27):
some point you know you dorealize that what you faced as a
kid affects you regardless.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
But then at some point you also realize that you
don't have to be the worst partof it.
You can come out better.
So Sadie kind of is in thatweird in between and yesterday's
gone.
She wants to be useful.
You know she doesn't want to beuseless and because of that
wants to be useful.
You know she doesn't want to beuseless and because of that it
kind of sets a lot of things inmotion.

(47:54):
So like moving forward in theseries you sort of see her climb
with her ethics and morals andher need to be someone that she
thinks she has to be, but thenit kind of devolves into someone
that the apocalypse expects herto be.
And then she realizes I canjust be whoever the fuck I want
to be.
I don't have to be defined bymy past.

(48:15):
I don't have to be defined bythe apocalypse that I grew up in
.
I can just be.
But it just it takes her a wildride to to get there and that's
why there's three books plusthe collapse.
So zero, one, two and three, sofour books total in the
aftermath main series you knowsomething.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
That kind of uh rings as interesting is like how much
, how much things tend to beparallel with the real world.
So like I'm seeing this storyof a young person who's coming
of age during this very, uh,strange time.
But like also in the in thecollapse, we see the beginning,

(48:57):
where some big event happenedthat changed the world, and then
growing up in that post,changing the world event into a
sort of apocalyptic, dangerous,uh landscape where you are now
expected to be an adult and findyourself, but also in this

(49:20):
world where it's like, hey,everything's fucked.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
You know, kind of like when the book came, when
you were writing pretty much,yeah, during everything was shut
down yeah thing was kind of youknow, up in the air, things
were going to hell and you'rejust like I don't know what to
do.
I'm just gonna sit home andwatch it all fall.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
That's essentially what it was just watch it either
rise or fall and like so manypeople of this time can
definitely relate to that, Ithink, because, like we've had
so many, yeah, so many collapsesmillennials just living through
their third.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Everything right?

Speaker 2 (49:55):
it doesn't and actually I mean, in this world
it's just one collapse yeah,pretty much yeah pretty much.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
In other words, it's better in say these in some ways
, I think maybe it is well, andit's.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
It's funny because in yesterday is gone every.
Even though everything ispost-apocalyptic, there are
still some advancements.
So they have, um, blood tests,they have decontamination
chambers, they have simulationsto train people who go out into
the field.
You know, so sad with hercommunity there's two sets of

(50:33):
people called station hands andstation heads.
So station heads are kind oflike the quote-unquote cops of
the community and then thestation hands are a step below
the heads, so they're not ashigh up Like deputies.
Pretty much, yeah, and Sadie isdoing her best to be a station
hand, um, but you know there issomeone who doesn't really want

(50:56):
her to be up there because, likethey're worried that if she's
going to go out into the fieldshe's going to get hurt.
She's not ready yeah, they wantto shield her there's a lot of
doubt and again sadie's dealingwith more doubt and someone
trying to shield her and shealready had to deal with that
it's just more and more on her.
It's just making her push backeven harder.
So, like they have simulationsto help the station heads and

(51:18):
hands um before they go out intothe field.
They set up like these fakescenarios where you know what
you would do.
So they use they do havefirearms, but if they don't need
to use their firearms, they useair guns.
So they have their air pistols,air rifles with uh bolts, oh,
so it's cuts down on the needfor ammunition.

(51:39):
They're not sorry, I keep onhitting this thing they keep
they, they, they're more quiet.
So the only time that you reallyturn arrows into ammo and like
bullets, like bolts into bullets, is if you cannot reload your
bolt fast enough to kill thenext goner or vector.
So they do have.
They carry a firearm and an airgun on them at all times and

(52:02):
they're only authorized to usetheir air gun unless otherwise.
So there are moments in thescenario where shit hits the fan
by accident and they have toswitch to their actual pistols.
But there's contingency plansset in motion in the simulations
to make sure that no one getshurt.
So, like, everything is kind oflike.
For example, like all thezombies, goners have their teeth

(52:25):
taken out, so there's no realrisk of them biting you.
Taken out, so there's no realrisk of them biting you.
There's hidden guns set up withpeople in the walls to shoot
the, the goners if they get ontop of you and you can't get
away.
There's trap doors.
There's just scenarios where,if shit hits the fan in that
simulation, you're gonna be fine.
It's just to kind of train youto expect the unexpected,

(52:48):
essentially because that's whatthe outside world is and that's
what the hands and heads aresupposed to be doing is they
have to protect this communityof people, and so they go out
and they do like their perimeterchecks.
If there's an outbreak or ifthey're like one of an outpost
gets overrun, they're the firstto go out and take care of it.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Is this a community of leaders that we can trust?
Yes, that's nice.
I think that's another exampleof what it's kind of become a
trope in zombie fiction, andit's one we, many of us, love,
and I love.
But it's nice to have a changeof like.
The community is corrupt, right?
The community leader is corrupt.
Um, in the case of the collapse, the parents suck, particularly

(53:27):
the dudes suck.
We were joking earlier abouthow like it's surprising that
gerald is a guy, a white guy,that we like.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
Um stay at home.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Dad that just wants to play games with his daughter
yeah um, and I think that that'sthat was an interesting choice
that you made.
That is different from a lot ofzombie fiction yeah, so there
are three hits, three stationheads.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
So, um, I'm not going to say their names because I
don't want to spoil anythingtechnically, but there's three
station heads, but one of themis the whole leader of the
community.
His name is kelvin.
He is technically a good guy.
He is one that does all thetrading for the community.
So he'll go off on his own anddo his own sort of bidding with
other communities and he'llbring back resources and

(54:13):
supplies.
There is like something going onwith kelvin that you aren't
aware of in yesterday's gone,but you will find out later in
the series as a whole.
He's not a bad guy.
All the leaders do whateverthey can to protect each other,
protect the hands, protect thecommunity.

(54:36):
Of course, bad things alwayshappen.
Things have to kick the seriesoff, right?
You got to kick everybody's assto get the series going, so
obviously something happens.
But my leaders as a whole,they'll do anything they can to
protect the community.
There's no corruption in thesense that they treat their
community like crap becausethey're in power or anything
like that that's reallyrefreshing, honestly, because I

(54:58):
want to have hope in theapocalypse, including our own
right now.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
I want to have hope that there are good people who
can be in positions ofleadership and not um abuse that
power yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
So there are definitely groups like that in
Yesterday's Gone or in Aftermathin general, and Sadie does
touch on it.
You don't really meet them inYesterday's Gone because Sadie's
world is just her community.
So it's a community calledClinton and it takes place in
Nassau, new York, but theyrename it Clinton once they save
the town and get rid of all thegoners and stuff.

(55:30):
So her whole world is justClinton.
She hasn't been out of it.
As soon as she got there shestays there and she just knows
of these other places becausepeople come in and out of
Clinton and they tell herstories.
She hears it from the leadersthat these other places they're
called preservations, so theirwhole sense is to preserve the

(55:54):
quote-unquote best of humanityand if you're not considered
valuable they don't let you in.
So if you don't have anythingvaluable to give them, they
don't see any reason to preserveyou in their new world
essentially so sadie only gets ataste of that from people
coming in and out with thestories that they share, and one
of it is they all have a tattooof a barcode and a number and

(56:18):
they're kind of like branded,like sheep, so they have a
scanner so they can scan you andknow exactly who you are.
That's how much control theyneed, but when you get kicked
out, they kind of flay it off ofyou.
Yeah, so people come in and outof Clinton and Sadie hears
about these quote unquote, savedcities and she just hates them

(56:42):
because she hates everythingthat they stand for.
It's like she thinks that theyshould all be working together
to make everything better.
And how dare you base someone'svalue on whether or not they're
a scientist or this or that?
she thinks she thinks everybodyhas a use and she just thinks
that those kind of people arebasically disgusting.
So there are bad people who arecorrupt and just want power and

(57:03):
only want the best of the best,and if you're not the best of
the best, then you're basicallykicked into what they call the
wasteland or the shit.
That's what they call it.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
I love it the shit.
I like calling it the shit theshit out in the shit like we've
heard wasteland before, likethat's, that's nothing new.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
But the shit, the shit.
You're just out in the shit.
I'm literally picturing them inshit being eaten by zombies.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
It's a really disgusting image in my head
pretty much.
It also says what they thinkabout the outside world too.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
Yeah, Like everything outside of your walls is just
the shit.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Yeah, and not the shit in the good way, like we
used to say back in the day Likethat's the shit.
I was always confused by thatsaying for that reason yeah, it
is a weird saying.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
Because you're putting the word the in front of
it.
That makes it nice shit.
Yes, I don't agree.
You'll never catch me sayingthat.
You're just not hip enough, I'mnot, it's okay, it's fine, we
forgive you.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
You're not hip Leah, you're not with it.
Exactly, you're not jive.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Exactly, but there's.
I think it's a goodjuxtaposition and an example of
like you can make a choice umboobs.
I think we deserve to updatethe audience with what you're
playing with now it's a zombiekitty and it has a pair of boobs
megan um, who made the zomkitty.
If you're listening I love it Ilove it so much, but apparently

(58:28):
the brain looks like boobs andthe eyes are nipples, which you
know now that it's pointed out,it's true.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
Yeah, we're going to have to post a picture to see
what people think.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Maybe it's.
Yeah, I just thought they wereholding a brain.
Or is it a butt?
I mean boobs, or butt is awhole thing, why not both?

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Yeah, both, both are good.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
Both are good.
Both are good.
Boobs and butts yes,masterpieces.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Megan, if you're listening now, you know what to
get Alice for her birthday.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
But yes, there are bad people in Yesterday's Gone
and Sadie hates them, but shehas not actually come into
contact with them, it's justthrough stories.
And she does meet someone inYesterday's Gone from a
preservation.
So yes, it's that person.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
I can't say anything because I'll just ruin so many
things.
Right, I can't say anything.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Yeah, okay, everything is a spoiler.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
I mean, so she Okay, just saying the name says it all
, stop it.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
So yeah, okay.
So she meets this other womanfrom a preservation, but the
story is that she ran away fromthis preservation, right, and
she finds herself in clinton byhappenstance.
She breaks in technicallybecause clinton is surrounded by
a fence, so technically shetrespasses, but in her mind it's

(59:47):
the goddamn apocalypse and yourfence isn't gonna hold me out
yeah, there's all kinds offences everywhere yeah, so she
doesn't give a damn, um, butsadie holds it over her head
like you are trespassing, like Ishould kill you, and she's just
like sadie, has standards thatare very rich.
Yeah, it sounds like yeah, andand meanwhile she's like what,
even, what even?

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
is private property right, right?

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
I've never heard of this she's like well, is it
really trespassing if I don'twant to be here anymore?

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
and sadie's like okay fair enough yeah, so like so
there.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
So she does end up meeting someone from the
preservation to get sort of afirsthand experience on how the
people are, um, rather than thepeople who were kicked out, or
she, this person, ran away frompreservation, so she gets the
exact experience, and yesterdayis gone and that person ends up
being a very big part of theseries it feels so real to me

(01:00:39):
because I'm just thinking aboutlike, how, um, for example, many
places, many people in places,look at our country and think
that we're all shitty.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Um, in fact, my own canadian family can be super, uh
, discriminatory towardsamericans and I'm like, hi, I am
one now, excuse me, you can bea good person in a place that's
making bad choices.
But also, like with the, withthe family situation, when I was
reading gerald and karen, I waslike, wow, is this what it
would be like to have, like ahealthy family?

(01:01:10):
That's so nice and I think it'sa balance, like it's a healthy
family, never matter.
I know, yeah, I mean I've seenthem, but I've always been like
what is this for?
I'm always like, squinting alittle bit, like tell me what's
really wrong behind the scenes.
I don't believe this.
Um, tell me your childhoodtrauma without telling me, I
guess I just just did.
Uh, what was I saying?

(01:01:31):
Now I feel vulnerable, I don'tknow um oh, just that, like I
would love to believe.
Like sadie, it sounds like likethe world needs to be a perfect
and good place, but it's alwaysa mix of everything it is yes,
yes, and she learns thatunfortunately a very hard way,
and you'll see that in.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
you'll see a piece of it, and yesterday's gone and
then you'll see more of it inaftermath, book two, which I'm
not gonna drop the title yet,just um, that's for later, but
that book's not out yet.
It's not though, unfortunately,but when I drop the cover and
the title, I'll also drop thepre--order.
I just gotta get my ass intogear with that.

(01:02:12):
You guys have the first fivechapters to read when you're
done reading Yesterday's Gone.
Yes, and you're allowed to bemad at me, at the end of
Yesterday's Gone we will be.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
I was already mad at you at the class.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Thanks, I'm gonna start now.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
We're mad, get out of our house.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
I mean it's a two hour drive.
Just take your crowbar and go,maybe I will.
I'm just kidding, okay, good,I'm joking too.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
And I never meant it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Sure, dan, but yeah, so, like Skady, has this
expectation for the worldbecause her whole world has only
been Clinton.
She's only ever seen hercommunity working together, even
though she knows bad peopleexist.
She hasn't really.
She's had quality parents.
Yes, so she knows bad peopleexist and in Yesterday's Gone

(01:02:58):
she's only ever known Clintonand never outside of it.
But she's been outside of it inthe sense that she interacts
with goners, infected infectors,but the people in these
preservations don't eveninteract with the infected, you
know.
So she's like I bet it's greatsitting behind your walls
feeling safe all the time.
If you've never had a fightever, you know what I mean.

(01:03:19):
So she's kind of pissed offthat they're treating those
people like crap, throwing otherpeople out even though they
have enough room to kind of helpeverybody, but they're not.
So they're pretty muchbasically blatantly choosing not
to help people and it kind ofmakes her pissed, but it makes
her relieved that she had thechance to experience this and be

(01:03:40):
strong enough to survive on herown, regardless, because and
you'll see this yesterday's goneas a flashback her and her
little group do come across apreservation in the early days,
but they refused to let them inone, because they had trooper
and they and dogs and animals ingeneral are a liability in

(01:04:00):
apocalypse, because I've heardthat yeah, they can bark they
can bark and give away yourposition, it's true, um?
so animals can be carriers ofthe a virus.
They just can't reanimate.
Oh shit, that's not good.
But they can contract the bvirus and what I call transition
.
So reanimation is for goners,transitioning is for vectors.

(01:04:25):
So animals can be vectors, onlyprimates can be goners.
So you do have zombie gorillas.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
I just realized how real in your aftermath world.
My question was what About whatyou would do with your loved
one if they were infected?
Yeah, that they could haveactually.
Wow, I'm so sorry.
I'm going to just feel guiltyabout that forever.
Let's talk more about dogs inthe apocalypse.
Gladly, because, if folkshaven't noticed, keep chuckling

(01:04:53):
about this.
This comment about dogs willgive away your position.
There's no way dogs could be,uh, successful in the apocalypse
.
That is a stereotype that hasbeen going around the zombie
verse lately.
Uh, tell us, and particularlysmall dogs, tell us why a yorkie
, uh for the aftermath, and whya chihuahua for your short story
, versus, I don't know, a germanshepherd so let me just preface

(01:05:17):
this that again, I love allanimals, love all breeds of dogs
big, small, giant, love themall.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
I've always wanted a great dane and a yorkie together
.
I think that little justmusician is amazing.
Love that.
But I mean, with a lot ofmainstream media and
post-apocalyptic scenarios, youusually see Belgian Malinois,
you see German Shepherds, yousee Rottweilers, you see you
know Pipples, and they're allgreat breeds.

(01:05:46):
But the reason why they'rechosen is because they're smart,
they're loyal, they're fierce,is because they're smart,
they're loyal, they're fierce,um, and they're intimidating.
However, specifically thatintimidation factor yes, they're
manly dogs, it's like a it'slike a gun with four legs and
fur pretty much yeah it's moreso for the for the loyalty and
intimidation aspect, right, um,but people don't understand that

(01:06:10):
small dogs can just can be justas oil maybe not as
intimidating at first glance,but I will say that my scout has
terrified people when she goesinto her barking fits to.
If they ever come close to meand she doesn't know them, she
goes into a barking fit and theyhave scuttled up on chairs.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Yeah, I mean, I've seen videos of like chihuahuas
treeing black bears.

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
Yes, so small dogs can be just as intimidating.
But at the same time, yourpartner doesn't need to be
intimidating.
It can just be your partnerbecause you love that and me
having a Yorkie right now.
I would fight tooth and nailfor my dog at the end of the
world and she would just be mypartner.
I will be the intimidating onein this relationship, that's it

(01:06:56):
yeah it doesn't like.
My dog doesn't need to be thisgun on four legs.
She's just there to keep mecompany.
She loves me, you know, andwith unraveled and jagger he's a
very good boy.
Too little chihuahua, you know,he just happened to have a
chihuahua and the end of theworld happened.
You know, it doesn't alwayshave to be this big, fierce dog
to be a post-apocalyptic story,because everyone has different

(01:07:19):
breeds of dogs and when theworld ends, that person's gonna
have the same dog it connectsback to the preservation concept
too because, like a lot ofzombie fiction with dogs has
this utilitarian view of a dogLike why have a dog unless it
has?

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
this purpose beyond just companionship and its
inherent value.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Yeah, why should we treat human beings as human
beings unless they do a job thatwe respect?

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
Yeah, exactly, but like I agree, I have two dogs
that bark a lot, as is evidencedby many episodes and they would
give us away they would, but Iwould work really hard to try
and figure out how to train themnot to do it and or use it.
We have to our advantage, likewe've thought about making, like
a little dog moat or like aplatform where they can bark
somewhere far away from us butbe able to get back to us safely

(01:08:07):
, like there's ways we couldutilize the bark, I'm confident
yeah, and there's so many otherjobs Like if, if you're obsessed
with every member of yoursurvival team having some sort
of intrinsic value, there'sother dogs there's other jobs
that dogs can do Cuddling, ofcourse.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Yes, that's the most important.
Dogs can be trained to go getyou a beer from the fridge.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Dogs can hunt rodents.
Absolutely.
Dogs can retrieve objects.
They can sniff out mushroomsand other edible things, if you
teach them how to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
Yes, they're going to know something's coming way
before you do.
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
And I just think people forget that and it also
has to probably do with the factthat a lot of people don't see
small breed dogs as dogs.
The amount of people I've comeacross that are like that's not
a dog, it's a rat, it's like,okay, thanks, I love that rat to
my dying breath.
Also, what's wrong with the ratdogs as dogs in general, but

(01:09:13):
also useful in that sort ofsense like oh, that thing can't
protect you, I don't need it toprotect me I just needed to be
there.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
It's my best friend yeah, yeah, go protect yourself
and honestly, I don't reallywant my dogs trying to protect
me because that means thatthey're gonna get hurt exactly,
exactly like.
That would actually upset me.
If our dogs ran after I, liketried to go after a zombie, that
means they're going to get hurtand that would devastate me
more than anything else and Iwould rather protect.
I mean, that's what we do now.
That's why I like the termguardian instead of owner.

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
Yeah, like if I see a bear in my yard, I'm not
telling my dog to go fetch, I'mgoing to get in the middle of
that and I've almost gotten hitby cars getting my dog out of
the middle of the road and Iwould do it again.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know, like the whole gun on
four legs thing.
To go back to that, like, eveneven in combat scenarios where
they have trained animals thatare are trained to be soldiers,
um, they're not out that, like,their role isn't to chase down
dudes and kill them.

(01:10:10):
That's not what they're therefor.
The.
The thing that uh, dogs andcombat situations are most
helpful for is, uh, retrieving,yes, fallen soldiers, finding
explosive devices, um, and likethere's.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
There's so many things that they're trying to do
and almost none of them involvecombat exactly, and in my
aftermath youth universe, whereyou know animals are affected by
either virus, sadie, eventhough she's trained trooper
very well she knows the dangerand the risk of having a dog and
everyone she comes across isjust tells her straight up you

(01:10:49):
know, it's a, it's a liabilityto have a dog in the apocalypse
and she's like don't give awayyour position, just like an EMP
would destroy all the cars.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
I'm not sure if we should just voice the online
beef.
No, it's okay, if you know, youknow If you know, you know,
it's like.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
Sadie has trained Trooper very well.
She she's always made awarelike it's a liability, and
everybody she comes across whenshe meets that that woman who
comes from the preservation, thefirst thing she says it's a
liability.
And sadie's like why doeseveryone always bring up the dog
as if I don't know?
Like we live in the same world.
Of course I know, but do I givea fuck?
No, she's my friend and if yougo near my dog I'm gonna kill ya
and that's how it?

(01:11:32):
is Like she trained Trooper verywell to alert her, to disorient
zombies, in the sense thatTrooper will go and circle
zombies to make them trip up,make them just like not look at
her while she gets ready toshoot them.
That's awesome and she knowsvery well that Trooper.
There are times where trooperwill try to go after a goner if
sadie is getting like attacked,but sadie will say no because

(01:11:54):
she knows that if trooper bitesthem, she will.
She might not be affected butshe'll become a carrier and then
she will be putting everyoneelse at risk because she's a
carrier.
Right, it's like sadie fullyknows and she is fully prepared
to reap the consequences of herchoice because it to her it's
worth the risk.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
She's troopers, her family, you know, and in your
universe are there babies.
Ever like children?

Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
yeah, like little children um at this moment, um
there's children in clinton, butyou don't really, I don't
really talk about them, they'rejust right, but if you did,
would this person from thepreservation say that small
child is a liability?

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Absolutely, oh wow, they're ruthless over at
preservation.

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
So her mindset and she has literally said she's
just like your town is crap.
Look at you, you got babiesover here you got dogs that
don't serve any function otherthan being your friend.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
I mean, I'm going to be real.
This town's a piece of shit.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
She makes it apparent how she feels about little
wasteland cities and communitiescompared to preservations.
She's like you know what?
We're saving lives?
And Sadie's like, no, you'renot.
So it's the whole beef betweenthose two that yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
They're saving some lives, not everybody's lives.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
Exactly Constant tension between those two
characters.
So yeah, so you see howpreservations are, sort of
through that person.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
That's fascinating because I feel like maybe this
is, like you know, one of thosepsychological tests we can start
giving, where people is like,what would make you feel worse,
or which thing is moredisposable to you, the baby or
the dog?
Baby, because and I'm sorry,parents, I'm so sorry, but it's
I'm being honest, being real,that when I watch a zombie movie

(01:13:42):
, if there is a baby, I'm like,oh my fucking god, you're
screwed.
If there's a dog, I'm just like, yeah, you better make that
work for that dog.
Obviously I don't want the babyto die, but I'm more worried
when there's a baby.
There's a baby, yes, then a dog, because a dog is trainable and
a baby is a baby and justresponding to any stimuli, yes,
at all, yeah yes it's terrifying.
You can't train a baby.

(01:14:03):
You have to wait.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
We have to wait for him to grow a brain yeah, pretty
much, pretty much, you know I.
I feel like we need to make alist of things that are um, that
would make noise in theapocalypse, that we should just
abandon.
If we're abandoning dogs, like,we should just make a list of
other things like babies, forexample.
Guns, guns.
Abandon your guns, yep.
Any car that has a factory caralarm on it, get a prius, yeah,

(01:14:27):
get um.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Uh, motor motorcycles , oh my god yeah, daryl dixon
would be so much less cool thathis motorcycle.

Speaker 3 (01:14:35):
True, I actually have motorcycles in my an aftermath
book too, which is hilarious,because it's like this makeshift
thing that sadie's like is thateven safe?
Like what does it run on spitand blood?
Like what is that?
And this other person's justlike I don't know if it explodes
.
It explodes, but it'll, it'llbe where it's something right
now.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
So like uh, flashlights, they'll just give
you away.
Oh yeah, absolutely why.
Why see in the dark you?

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
know, just have your eyes, adapt, be cool.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
Zombies will see the flashlight get rid of it just
talking loudly or yelling ateach other.
There's never a thing thatmakes me more mad than watching
a zombie movie.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
And people are talking at a loud volume when
there's clearly zombies nearby.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
I'm like what do you fucking whisper?

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
it's called plot convenience the zombies don't
notice until they need to notice.
Yeah, but I think it is.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
I think it's a personality test.
Do you, do you think of the dogas a liability or are you like?
No, at all costs, I am going toprotect the dog.
I will protect my dog at allcosts and I would do it for a
baby too, but I don't.
It's harder because I have toknow the baby to shut a baby up
probably means suffocating it,versus shutting a dog up means
I'm holding its mouth closed andit's looking at me, pissed off

(01:15:45):
pretty much.
Yeah, it's lower stakes yeah,pretty much we could talk to you
literally forever and willafter this episode is finished.
Sorry y'all, you don't get tojoin that we're gonna have a
fire but we do have somethingvery exciting contained fire.
I promise it's not arson as faras you know, yeah, and ours.
You have some neighbors wecould.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
I'm kidding I'm going to delete that, just in case we
accidentally burned down theneighbor's house, chaotic Good.

Speaker 1 (01:16:13):
But if you're not sold yet on reading the Collapse
and the Aftermath series, Idon't know what will.
It's a super fabulous firstbook.
I was in it from the verybeginning and I really need to
see where Sadie and the othercharacters that we have heard
about are going to go.
So if you want to join us, weactually have an amazing
opportunity right now a bookgiveaway that Alice is very

(01:16:34):
generously offering.

Speaker 3 (01:16:37):
So there are first, second and third prizes.
First prize would be a signedbook of the collapse with
bookmarks and stickers designedby me.
I designed the bookmarks andstickers designed um by me.
I designed the bookmarks andstickers.
Second prize will be thecollapse ebook with some signed
bookmarks and the stickers also,so you still get some physical

(01:17:01):
merch from the second prizewinner.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
And the third prize winner will be the collapse
ebook and that is going to begoing on from the release of
this episode september 7th ifyou're listening to it right now
until september 20th the fallequinox.
We thought that would be a funway to end it, so the way that
you can enter the prize is youcan follow alice b sullivan's
facebook page and join thefacebook zombie book club

(01:17:26):
zombesties facebook group.
That's right, we are onfacebook.
We did it.
We finally did.
You should come be our friendin the group.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
It's the future Facebook.

Speaker 3 (01:17:36):
I mean, I post pictures of my dog, so it's
pretty fun.
That's actually great yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
Yes, more dog photos.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
Yeah, I feel like dog photos are your brand.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
And that's what people want.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
The dog never dies.
Hashtag, hashtag, or, andthat's what people want the dog
never dies.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Hashtag, hashtag, or else we riot.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
Dogs are the apocalypse, so go check out
Alice B Sullivan's Facebook pageto enter that giveaway.
We will let people know on the21st, the day after the giveaway
sign-up period is over, if youwon and what you're going to do
is tag your favorite zombieapocalypse partner in the
comments.
Bonus points, not literally,but if you happen to have a page

(01:18:13):
for your dog, like a Facebookprofile, that is your dog, you
can tag them.
That would be super fun.
Maybe add a picture.
These are things that we coulddo.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
Yes, I literally have a key chain with my dog that
says zombie apocalypse partners.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
So she has one half of the heart, I have the other
half.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
Oh, my God has one half of the heart.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
I have the other half oh my god, you could sell that.
Yeah, as custom merch also youcan tell us?
What you would abandon insteadof your dog in the apocalypse I
would love to know that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
I would love to hear it.
Yes, please.
And when?
Alice is not writing incrediblezombie fiction that makes you
think and want to know where thecharacters are going to go next
?
She's also participating inmaking movies.
Do you want to tell us a littlebit about that?

Speaker 3 (01:18:53):
uh, sure.
So I had the privilege ofworking with george demick.
He is a writer, producer, actor.
He is so many things and he'sjust an awesome guy all around.
Um, he approached me after thispast living dead weekend after
me and him bullshitted literallyall weekend.
He came back to my booth andalso bought my books, which is

(01:19:16):
awesome.
Having George Demick ask for meto sign my books for him to buy
was like real.
He asked me if I wanted to bein his movie.
Just a small part, it's nothingamazing.
It was just a really funexperience.
He wanted to showcase my booksin a way that would help him and

(01:19:40):
help me.
So I got to drive my sister andI drove down to Tennessee
because we hate ourselves.
14 and a half hour drive,something like that to be an
extra in his movie calledWriters of Darkness.
So it's five horror writersstay at a haunted Airbnb where
the ghosts of a serial killercouple steal their stories and

(01:20:03):
turn them into reality.
So it's really fun.
I got to see a lot of the shots, which is crazy to experience.
There's a lot of reshooting, alot of angling and retakes and
stuff.
Also the actors and everybodywas just amazing in general.
So my part was small.
I was just, you know, at aconvention.
I was a vendor selling my books.

(01:20:24):
But the way they did it is theyhad people dress up like
zombies shuffle over and buy mybooks.
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
Which was so funny.

Speaker 3 (01:20:34):
And the zombies did their makeup themselves, which I
thought was phenomenal.
It was just a really funexperience.
You can follow the Writers ofDarkness movie on Facebook.
They are also looking forinvestors for their next film
and I can't stress enough thatthey're just a great group of
people and I'm very excited tosee this movie.
I think the premiere will bemaybe March or April, something

(01:20:55):
like that, and I will be goingback down to Tennessee for the
premiere.
I was asked by George to comeback down, so me and him text.
It's kind of weird, but he's anawesome guy.
He's an awesome man, so if youhave time, go check it out you
won't be sorry, I can't wait tosee it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
And of course, he likes to text you because you
are yourself a legend and thatis the magic of Living Dead
Weekend.
I hope it continues, becausethose are the kinds of meetings
that you have.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
Oh yeah, absolutely Like.
Living Dead Weekend was likethe best experience I've ever
had, going like these last twoyears.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
I really hope it continues yeah, it's solidified
that you're my zombesty for life.

Speaker 3 (01:21:31):
Oh yeah, for real meeting you all in person was
like chef's kiss.
Yeah, yeah, it's great I.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
I remember, um, when we were at living dead weekend
like I.
I can't remember a time, andand quite such a long time, that
I felt so comfortable aroundpeople that I just met right.
It's like we had been friendsfor like our entire lives yeah,
like in the first 30 seconds,it's just like no, we know each
other and we have always knowneach other like there was

(01:21:57):
there's, even though we're likehours and hours away from each
other.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
There's no rift yeah, we're like zom soul family
pretty much now.
It's like just catch up on,like wait a second, what's your,
uh, what's your actualbackstory when?

Speaker 3 (01:22:10):
When you're just best friends but you don't actually
know any of their traumaticpasts or something?

Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
What age are you actually?
Tell me about your childhoodtraumas.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
We'll do that over a fire tonight.
Well, alice, this has beenincredible to have you literally
across the table from me.
I feel so honored that you cameto be with us and to record and
to hang out later.
Wish everybody was here.
You'll be with us in spiritZombesties Always.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
And you'll be having some s'mores.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
Yeah, go.
You know what, if you'relistening to this on a Sunday
night, go get yourself somes'mores Get some s'mores.
Yeah, have a little fire.

Speaker 3 (01:22:43):
Some s'mores and some s'mores.
S'mores, me s'mores, and snoresis when you um make s'mores but
then eat them in bed.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
Yeah that sounds messy, but I'm down for it.
The idea is that you fallasleep while eating them we
could eat the s'mores in ourhand that's just like a waste of
s'mores hammocks are nice.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
I'm a big fan of the hammock.
I fall out of them a lot.
I've got the cocoon kind soit'll be okay.

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
Yeah, fun fact before we made this podcast, we were
contemplating making somethingcalled the hammock cast, where
we just reviewed hammocks that'show much I love them yeah,
we're like what if?
What if we could just get ahammock.

Speaker 3 (01:23:23):
Hammock supply stores to sponsor us, like sponsor you
guys for hammocks and we justhave like a hundred hammocks.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
Oh my god, I think it's still possible.
He's only for hammocks and wejust have like a hundred
hammocks.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
Oh my god, that'd be amazing.
I think it's still possible.
Could be a Zonia Book Clubpodcast in a hammock.

Speaker 3 (01:23:34):
I want a hammock with a cup holder.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
Do those exist?
Sadly, we don't have that here,but yes, they do exist Nice.
Yeah, let us know if you wantto hear us do a hammock zombies
in hammocks zombies out ofhammocks, zombies in hammocks,
zombies in hammocks zombiehammocks

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
zombie hammock, you know what there could be.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
A really hilarious scene of a zombie getting like
caught in a hammock.

Speaker 3 (01:23:57):
Oh my god some poor soul just like dies in a hammock
and turns into a zombie andthen can't get out.
Yeah, it's the cocoon'ssomething you don't think about
right, like where people arewhen they reanimate, like if
your pants down on the shitter.
That's it.
That's it, your pants are justalways down right, like that's I
always right, so I always waslike what are you wearing right

(01:24:20):
now?
Now you're a zombie, what areyou wearing for the rest of your
?

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
undead life did.
Pants are down?
I don't think no, that sucksyeah that sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
Yeah, I don't know how else to end like.
There's no better ending thanthat.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
I feel like that's, that's how it is.
All the links will be in thedescription.
Um, where can people find you,alice?
So where do they look?

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
I do have a website.
It's alicebsullivancom.
That's where you can find my uh, my my upcoming releases, but
I'm very active on my Facebookpage.
There is an author profile, butI am more active on the actual
page.
You will know it's my page whenyou see pictures of my dog.
I do have an Instagram also,but, like I said, facebook is

(01:25:06):
where I'm mostly at.

Speaker 1 (01:25:08):
Yeah, and that's why we joined Facebook was to be
more cool, like Alice and theother authors on Facebook.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
You know there's a few of us now that are always
talking on the discords, butalso it's become very clear that
we got to be on the Facebook ifwe want to have friends.

Speaker 3 (01:25:26):
I do recommend it.
I do recommend it.
I've met a lot of awesomepeople on Facebook and in some
Facebook groups.
I'm in Courtney's Facebookgroup and I think that's like
one of the most fun groups I'veever been in.
So shout out.
Do you want to talk about whatyou're?

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
doing in the Facebook group right now?
Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:25:42):
So Courtney is an amazing author.
You know she's been on here.
Shout out again, buy her books,chef's kiss.
Shout out again by her books,chef's kiss.
But she has her Facebook groupfor her Sundown series and she
was like, oh, you should join.
I was like, okay, yeah, there'snot a lot of members, but the
members it has is like such agreat community of readers and
people in general.

(01:26:03):
They support each other, theyshout each other out.
They just talk about randomthings.
So in the book or, wow, in theFacebook group, I wanted to do
something interactive andengaging.
So what I'm doing right now isI have a zombie apocalypse
scenario, starting with daynegative one where it goes to
day zero, with differentscenarios and how you would

(01:26:24):
choose which direction thecharacter goes and based on how
many votes that decision gets.
I would write the story thatway.
So it's kind of like a why like?
You choose sort of adventure ina zombie outbreak scenario set
in an elementary school and youare a fifth grade teacher when
the zombie outbreak happens atthe school.

Speaker 2 (01:26:45):
So it's been.

Speaker 3 (01:26:46):
Yeah, I had one of the readers in the facebook
group comment.
It's like why are you doingthis to us?
Because, like the last scenariowas pretty heartbreaking, the
last little excerpt I did waspretty heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 (01:27:02):
Unfortunately, it's kind of like a group choose your
own adventure.
Yes, everybody has to choosenot ever.

Speaker 3 (01:27:09):
I mean not everybody.
You get like now everybody getsto choose because not
everybody's active.
So I give them a certain amountof time by the time I post it.
I'm like you have until 12 pmEST tomorrow to choose.
You know, react or comment yourchoice, and whoever gets the
most votes I write it that way.
But the thing is is like, eventhough you choose that answer,
I'll write it that way but itmight not happen the way you
wanted it to happen.

(01:27:29):
So, like this last scenario,everyone chose this certain
choice that they thought wouldbe the best, but it ended up
being the worst choice you couldhave chosen and I knew that's
how I wanted it to go if thatchoice was chosen Diabolical,
yes.
So they're learning that rightnow that just because you choose
it doesn't mean it's going togo the way you expected it to go
.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
I love that.
This is the beautiful brain ofAlice B Sullivan.
Everybody Go enter for thegiveaway.
Follow her on Facebook she'salso on Instagram with us, but
mostly Facebook.
Go to her website, get thebooks, check them out.
I don't know where I was goingwith that.

Speaker 3 (01:28:07):
I have a little bit of that.
I have a little bit ofeverything Outbreak,
post-apocalypse runners,shamblers I got it all.

Speaker 2 (01:28:15):
Dogs.

Speaker 3 (01:28:15):
Dogs Never die.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
Dogs in the apocalypse never die.
They never die.
We love it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
Well, thanks everybody, and especially Alice,
for joining the Zombie BookClub.

Speaker 3 (01:28:25):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
And Alice if you want to support the pod?

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Are you?

Speaker 1 (01:28:34):
pitching Alice directly, but also everybody
else.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
Alice, you can leave a review or a rating.
Please, Five stars, Alice, andalso Alice.
If you want to send us athree-minute voicemail at
614-699-0006, you could.
You could send us an elevatorpitch of one of your books.
You could elevator pitch us orjust, you know, tell us who you

(01:28:58):
would abandon in the apocalypseinstead of your dog.
You could also sign up for ournewsletter, Alice.

Speaker 1 (01:29:05):
Alice already has signed up for our newsletter.

Speaker 2 (01:29:07):
Oh, okay, I gotta check.
Admittedly, I have not doneanything newsletter related in a
long time and I need to.

Speaker 3 (01:29:14):
I also have a newsletter.

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
Sign up for Alice's newsletter.
That actually will get intoyour inbox and not your spam,
like ours.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
But, alice, you should also follow us on
Instagram.
Have you followed us onInstagram?

Speaker 1 (01:29:27):
Yes, dan, I think I have.
Oh, and on Facebook I am on.

Speaker 3 (01:29:29):
Facebook.

Speaker 2 (01:29:31):
We could be Facebook friends.
Are you on Facebook?

Speaker 3 (01:29:38):
I am as a page.
You cannot be my friend, butyou can like and follow me.

Speaker 2 (01:29:42):
Okay, I'll check it out.
You can also join the BrainMunchers Zombie Collective
Discord.
It's all the links.
They're down there in thatdescription and thanks everybody
for stopping by.
The end is nigh.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Alice, do you sing the Face of Disgust?

Speaker 2 (01:30:04):
That was the correct answer.

Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
Alice, all right, we're just going to say it.
Then, baby, bye, bye, bye,don't die.

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
Don't die, don't die, don't, die, don't die.

Speaker 1 (01:30:11):
Bye everybody, Bye-bye, Bye.
Thank you Alice.

All Episodes

'The Collapse' with special guest Alice B. Sullivan | Zombie Book Club Ep 112

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}'The Collapse' with special guest Alice B. Sullivan | Zombie Book Club Ep 112