The Undead Symphony with Special Guest Darren Smith | Zombie Book Club Ep 96 - Zombie Book Club

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:20):
Welcome to the Zombie Book Club, the only book club
where the book is a podcast andthe podcast is a book, and the
book is also a symphony, but thesymphony is performed by
zombies and it's the apocalypse,but you can somehow still get
Indian food delivered.
Nice, I'm Dan, and when I'm notconducting a symphony of my own
with diesel trucks driven byasphalt-covered tweakers, I'm
writing a book about an undeadworld that has a lot more in

(00:41):
common with a symphony that Ioriginally realized.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Interesting world that has a lot more in common
with the symphony that Ioriginally realized Interesting,
dan and I'm Leah.
Today we're chatting with theDarren Smith about his gripping
new novel, the Undead Symphony.
And if you're a part of thezombie world, you probably
already know the voice that isDarren Smith behind the
London-based podcast, alsocalled the Undead Symphony.
That covers zombie movies, tvshows, has awesome interviews
with actors, fans and fellowzombie besties in our community.

(01:05):
But you may not know that he'salso the author of several
novels like the Bends and A Godin a Box, and now he's brought
us the Undead Symphony in bookform, which is a powerful and
surprising new addition to thezombie fiction genre.
Welcome to the Zombie Book Clubpodcast, darren.
We're so glad you're here.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for coming, that istrue most of that was true about
me I'd say most of that wastrue okay, is there anything?

Speaker 1 (01:30):
uh, anything.
You want any corrections or no?

Speaker 2 (01:32):
that's 100.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
There was a hundred percent any embellishments you
want to throw in no, no, I'mgood, I'm good with that.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
I am good with that.
Yeah, and it is.
Yes, it is a london-basedpodcast called the undead
Symphony, and if you're going toask me why it's called that,
I've prepared my answer.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
We do have that in the list, but first we have to
ask the rapid-fire questions.
We ask every guest on thispodcast.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, we need these answers.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
As a zombie expert yourself, we are going to judge
you at a much harsher level foryour answers.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
So give us your gut quick response your choice hot
shot, 40 hour work week orzombie apocalypse uh, I kind of
like my job um weird killingzombies um yeah, I mean to be
fair.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
I actually do enjoy my job.
I am actually, uh, I'm actuallyhappy with the work week.
What was the hours, by the way?
40?

Speaker 3 (02:29):
oh, fuck, that zombie apocalypse how many hours a
week do you get to work overthere in the uk?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
uh, it is actually a 35 hour work week or 40 hour
work week, but based on what Ido, I'm kind of like a
specialist, so I just like it'slike a hour or two a day, sort
of spread out, depending on whenI'm needed.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Wow that is the dream , darren.
I would also choose that.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
That's how I managed to churn out novels from time to
time in the, in the breaks allright, we have to move to the uk
now.
I mean, there's a lot ofreasons oh yes uh.
So, um, since, since you didn'tuh, since you uh were given
those extra five hours of work aweek and you chose the zombie

(03:13):
apocalypse instead, it's thezombie apocalypse now.
Congratulations, it's yourfault.
Um, thank you.
What is what would be your,what would be your weapon of
choice?

Speaker 2 (03:27):
oh, that's good.
Um, it would depend on the kindof zombie and the kind of
infection.
Uh, if it is a la, 28 dayslater, bloodborne kind of thing,
uh, as far away as humanlypossible.
Um, I, I would, you know, gun,obviously.
But then there's the bulletsquestion.
I would be really partial to aflamethrower.

(03:47):
I was thinking that the otherday I was watching someone
finish Last of Us the firstcomputer game and they were
doing it with a gun and I waslike you don't take out the
nurses and doctors with a gun,why do you not have a
flamethrower?
It's really good for partiesand excellent to start the
barbecue as well, so maybe I'llgo for a flamethrower as my
weapon of choice.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
That's a good choice.
I think you just gave us areason to buy one, which is
parties and starting thebarbecue.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
How do you not have one already?
You don't.
How do you not have one already?

Speaker 3 (04:16):
I feel a little shamed.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
I am ashamed for you.
I thought you guys wereprepping.
We are, but we live in theunited states, so that's guns,
baby.
Yeah, we can have guns.
I had to talk dan, out ofbuying more recently.
Yeah, I asked my please getmore guns, my gun drawer is not
full um, but I think that wasvery special, I think when you

(04:39):
can choose between pretty muchany gun you want.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
We don't really think about arson as the solution to
the problem, so I think it'sjust a different way of thinking
I think it's a smarter way ofthinking because, like you said,
darren, bullets they run out.
But you know now that I thinkabout it it'd be a whole lot
easier to clear all the snow outof our driveway with a
flamethrower than just shootingat it because, that's true, it
gets expensive right.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Next rapid fire question.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
You're in the zombie apocalypse now and you get to
eat only one unlimitedshelf-stable food item for the
rest of your life.
You've come upon a warehouse.
It's going to feed you untilyou die, but it's only one thing
.
What do you choose?

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Okay, I actually did a lot of research for this, for
the book, and virtuallyeverything goes off.
That's good for you um trueit's it.
It's very tricky.
Uh, I have to eat one foodstuff for the rest of my life
it's probably going to be badfor you, that's just it's gonna
have to be bad for me, isn't it?

(05:40):
um, I don't really know.
I mean, I'm a bit of acarnivore, so that's pointless.
You know, because you're notgoing to eat any canned meat,
shouldn't eat canned meat anyway, I like canned meat.
In the zoppy apocalypse you'vegot to open a can of canned beef
.
What called beef?
What the hell is wrong with you?
Um, I don't know.
Uh I mean, that's how it startsbarbecue beans because you know,

(06:00):
could I could have a well asday soon.
That'll mean I'll be no one touse my flamethrower.
I don't know, can peaches,we'll just go with something
simple.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, you know that brings some joy to your life.
Plenty of vitamins and mineralsin those peaches.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
It's a new one.
Yeah, it's definitely new.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
They're put there by a man, yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
In a factory downtown .

Speaker 2 (06:23):
I was about to start singing.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
I was going to do that as well.
What is that band called?

Speaker 1 (06:28):
The.
Presidents of the United States, yeah, I wish they were the
Presidents of the United Statesstill.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
We'd all get peaches, I think a lot of people think
that yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Well, I got to give you kudos for Unique Choice.
When you said beans for amoment there I was like, oh no,
our only two uk-based authorshave both chosen beans, so good
for you choosing peaches.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
I think it's a good choice, you know, because
there's so many things that ifyou ate it non-stop for the rest
of your life, you'd you'dprobably want to end your life
pretty quickly, because I I likebeans.
I don't know if I want to eatthem every single day, though
yeah, but peaches, though,that's a different.
I don't know if I want to eatthem every single day, though
yeah, but peaches, though,that's a different story.
I don't know how long it wouldtake me to get sick of peaches.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
I don't know we watch any, you know, not necessarily
zombie, but you know apocalypticmovie, and they sort of always
get fine canned food and theyalways shake it and they go oh,
peaches or dog food or somethingso it's one of those.
It's one of those staples evenwhen the even when the label's
been pulled off, it's like shakeit peaches it's.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
You shake it and it's either peaches or something.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
That's really gone horrible it is that corned beef,
but now it's liquefied.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
You're like oh, this is definitely peaches, and you
open it.
It's like this used to becondensed milk.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
It kind of reminds you what is this, that smell?
Is it either like really badmeat or good cheese?
It's that kind of thing.
But yeah, I'm going to stickwith peaches, even though they
will go off after like 18 months.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
I mean mean you can.
You can forage so much stuff to, you know, eventually concoct a
pie at some point, you know Iwas just thinking adding peaches
to a forage salad would be likea really lovely salad, sure
also I'm sure they're very goodwhen you actually want to.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
You know trade with other other survivors.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
Would you like some peaches, because I got dog food
you can make like a peachmarinade for the fish.
I think that could be great alittle bit.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
I don't know what peach cobbler is, but I could
probably make a post-apocalypticpeach cobbler.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
It's like a crisp.
Does a crisp sound familiar toyou?

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, we call it a crumble, I think it's very
similar, where it's got like OTtop and a fruit underneath, kind
of thing, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Next question putting the fruit underneath, kind of
thing.
Yeah, um, yeah, all rightquestion.
You know, okay, in this, inthis warehouse, there's also a
small stockpile of one veryspecific dvd box set of tv show
or movie, possibly a movieseries.
If it's a dvd box set, um, and,just as luck would have it, a

(09:05):
battery operated dvd player witha little screen built in and a
solar panel.
Weird that you find all thesethings in the same place, but
you do.
Really lucky, um, what would bethe dvd box set of your choice
to watch for the rest ofeternity?

Speaker 2 (09:22):
that's a good question.
I could jokely throw out somesort of porn series.
I don't know if this works too.
I think it was a TV show thatsomeone jokes about.
He found a DVD and it was likeAnal Destructor 7 or something.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Someone else joked about.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
They made six of this .
I don't know um sapanos wasalways good, um, and there's
quite a lot of it from what Iremember.
Um, I thought my favorite tvshow, you know, when I was a kid
growing up, was blake seven,which is like this bbc sci-fi
show, um, and it had two series,like 13 episodes a season.

(10:03):
So maybe that, maybe that itdepends on how much of my time I
don't spend, uh, killingzombies and just spend dicking
around in the apocalypse because, you know, there's nothing else
to do.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
Well, you've got a lot because you've got your
peaches yeah peaches and blakeseven.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, probably, yeah probably blake seven which you
guys wouldn't have heard ofnecessarily but it was kind of
like in there, no, but it's kindof like around.
It was like 80, 81.
So star Wars had come out andand empire was about to come out
.
So I think I think they they'reserious straddled empire and so
like it was like the BBC.

(10:51):
So it's like BBC kind of.
Every alien planet either lookslike a quarry or a water
purification plant and thosekind of things, and you know
it's kind of like a DoctorWho-esque.
You know sci-fi, special effects, so it was great growing up
with it, though, although Imight say I might change it to
Red Dwarf, because I thinkthey've got 11 seasons of that
now.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
That's something I've heard of, so yeah, it's a
comedy.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
It's kind of like a sci-fi comedy.
The english guys get stuck inspace and you know forever, well
, for 11 seasons.
So yeah, but that was funny,though it is funny, genuinely
funny.
So maybe one of those.
I kind of like british,although I don't love global tv
and movies.
Obviously the podcast hascovered 40 countries of zombie
movies.

(11:27):
Incredible, uh, but I give it,it's incredible, given the fact
that all these countries want tomake zombie movies.
Uh, but yeah, it's kind of thebbc stuff kind of hits home
because it's like stuff from mychildhood like hitchhiker's
guide to the galaxy and doctorwho and stuff like that.
So yeah, yeah, I'd probably gowith Red Dwarf or Blake Seven.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Also, as your mental health declines.
This is going to become yournew religion, too, and your best
friends.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Oh yeah, in which case it should probably be Red
Dwarf, because the actual ideaof it is that one of the guys is
brought back from the dead tokeep the other one sane.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
because he is kind of by himself.
So conceptually I think maybeI'll stick with red dwarf I feel
like that could be, like I'llbecome a little too close to
home over time.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah but when you're going progressively mad in a
zombie apocalypse it's fine asI'm shouting back at them.
Uh yeah, although, to be fair,my grandpa is a shout at the tv
too, and it wasn't theapocalypse.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
So uh, we have a bonus question just for you,
okay, um, thank you.
Same idea, I guess.
Um, you're a zombie, apocalypsehas a soundtrack.
You can hear it.
It's just playing.
It's.
Uh, you're just walking alongand you hear some walking along
music.
Um, you're, you're, you'redoing stuff back at the, at the

(12:49):
warehouse, with all of yourpeaches.
You have the doing stuff withpeaches music.
What is the opening theme ofyour zombie?

Speaker 3 (12:56):
no, no, no, no.
What's the?
You're doing stuff with peaches, that's gotta be the correct
question.
Two questions yeah openingtheme and song and doing stuff
with Peaches song.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
It's probably the same thing.
It's probably the same song,because it will just be
constantly just running throughmy head.
There ain't nothing going tobreak my stride as I'm opening
the can of Peaches in time, withthe music Hoping.
It's not condensed milk againShaking it to the drums, the
drums yeah, I know yeah yeah, Ilove it.

(13:29):
Yes, it's wilder, somethingwilder sang that song.
I can't remember his first name, but yeah, ain't nothing gonna
break your voice.
Oh, oh, I could go completelybatshit and like africa by toto
I just spend the whole I justspend the whole time walking
around the apocalypse, singingout loud that song has such
feeling and as your mentalhealth declines you sing it even

(13:51):
more manically when it rainsI'll tell you what.
It's actually a safety thing,because what it is is like
security, because if any anyonein the warders want to come and
steal my shit, they're gonnahear someone singing toto from
like the next valley, like aninsane person that would be
disturbing and that will strikefear in their hearts forget

(14:12):
putting like zombie heads onpikes around my enclosure.
I'm just gonna sing my lungsout to toto the whole apocalypse
.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
Oh wow, um well, you aced it.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
By the way, our judgment is a plus it makes you
want to write more comedy,zombie stuff now yeah, hey, I
mean there's.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
There's some moments in your book that I think were
pretty hilarious, um, and we'regonna talk about those things,
okay.
Uh, so we first discovered youthrough your podcast, the Undead
Symphony.
That's the name that I wassaying with my mouth, just put
your teeth in please.

(14:52):
Yeah, how did the UndeadSymphony podcast start
originally?

Speaker 2 (15:02):
I could do the long story short or short story long.
Basically, I already had apodcast, a running one that I
started during covid, uh,because I'm one, I run ultras
and marathons, uh, for charity.
So I was, I'd got up to like 50and then covid happened and
there were no races.
So I need to keep myselfoccupied and and, um, motivated.
So I went back and started, Icreated a podcast to literally

(15:24):
review all the races I'd done,with the hope that they'd start
again before I'd finished, andthey did.
So I've actually done.
I like podcasting as a, as a, asa medium, um, I, I like
audiobooks, I like audio plays,you know.
So I kind of like the mediumand I love, I love zombie movies
and tv shows.
So it was kind of a naturalprogression of but what do you

(15:46):
got a podcast during COVID.
I had all the streamingservices across them.
There were probably a couple ofdozen zombie movies and shows
that I either had watched orwanted to watch, or you know, et
cetera, et cetera, and so itkind of made me think maybe I
could do a podcast on that.
But let's just see.
Let's just see how many zombiemovies I could probably discover

(16:06):
now, how many, and so I.
So I created what was the zedlist and it had like 15 pages,
double-sided, two columns oneach side, so several thousand,
uh, zombie movies and shows, andso it came.
It came about like that and soI'll go.
So well, I'm gonna just do.
I started a couple of years ago.
I'm just gonna do simplereviews.

(16:28):
This is what happens with it.
I think I started with a liveand final days, which I think
you call I think you call aloneuh, the one with, uh, what's his
name?
Posy in it, um, the guy whoplayed team wolf in the show.
Um, so I did one and then I dida couple of others.
I got to like episode 40 andmichael came along and then I
started getting a format and itwas just that.

(16:50):
It was just I love zombiemovies.
Michael was actually mysounding board as I was
recording them, uh, and then hejoined and you know it.
Just, it just happened.
It was organic, it's natural.
You know you can't force thiskind of thing, you can't.
So I love zombie movies, I lovepodcasting.
Let's put the two together, um,and and and you know whether it
works or not, whether peoplelisten to them or not, I just

(17:11):
don't really care, um, I willput it, put together a show, get
some famous people to do theintro, make, put some stupid ads
in that I've made up, talk,talk to michael about it, or get
a guest, um, and then put itout there.
And then the thing is that, youknow, I, I record it for me.
I enjoy doing this.
I like watching a zombie movieand then talking about it and

(17:33):
then put it out there and thenforget about it, move on to the
next one.
Uh, and it's for me, it's about, it's about experiencing stuff
too.
So, like I said, 40 countries,we've covered zombie movies.
Incredible, uh, but yeah.
But I guess back to my point isthat it means that the zombie
genre is global, you know.
So I've seen south african andafrican and loads of different

(17:55):
asian ones and australian, newzealand and, you know, all
across europe, um, don't forgetcanada.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
Gotta give canada a shout out.
Canada's got some great zombies, yeah you know blood called.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
You know Blood Quantum is one of my favorites,
same.
So you know it's one of thosesleep hits not many people have
seen, but you know I've seenthem from all over.
Everyone gives it a go.
There's a Belgium's only zombiemovie.
It's called Yummy Yummy.
That was a video I've notwatched that one yummy, I've not

(18:26):
watched that one.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Should we check it?

Speaker 2 (18:27):
out.
Actually, I'm asking youbecause you suffer for all the
rest of us.
I do, um, it's very good.
It's one of my sleepers likelike blood, quantum and it
stains the sands red and otherones like that, though they're
all very watchable.
That one is, if you like, a bitof blood and a bit of gore and
a bit of humor back humorbecause it's set in a um, um.
It's set in a a cosmetic, uh,like surgery kind of hospital,

(18:50):
like we go and get your, youknow, tummy tuck and and butt
lift and stuff like that uh insome unspecified eastern
european country.
so it's kind of got like, youknow, a little bit of a hostile
vibe Hostel.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
Oh, I don't know if I can watch that.
That movie is serious.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
But it's a zombie.
It's a zombie movie.
It's got some really good go init and it's genuinely funny.
There is arguably one of thefunniest penis scenes you're
likely to see in a zombie movie.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
All right, I'm in it.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
You sold us.
I sold Dan on the penis scene.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
I wasn't expecting to say that in this, that's the
clip right there, darren, we'regonna make that the real I sold
down on the penis darren um, youmentioned that you do it for
yourself, which I also resonatewith that.
Like, dan and I just have areally good time making a
podcast.
But then something weirdhappened.
People started reaching out tous and we were like, oh, like
there's, there's like peoplelistening there's a community,

(19:48):
and so I'm curious what that waslike for you.
Like what was.
Who was the first person thatreached out and said hey, other
than Michael, you know.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, I knew Michael from before because we run a few
marathons together.
It's always very, not soencouraging, it's always very
encouraging.
It kind of puts an extra oomphin your day when someone
messages and goes actually, Ijust listened to this podcast,
it's awesome.
Or I just listened to thispodcast, it's awful.
And they'll be like oh, youlisten to my podcast, oh, what

(20:17):
do you mean?
It's awful?
Yeah, it's encouraging.
You know, when you go and seethe numbers and I always get the
updates because my host justsends you the stats and stuff
like that Somebody goes.
Oh, that episode, why arepeople listening to that?
That was like three months ago.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
That's how I feel about our first episode.
Yeah, stop listening to ourfirst episode.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
It's terrible.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Okay, well, hopefully people will listen to this one.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yes, I don't want to listen to the old one.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Well, you can listen to the old one, everybody, but
listen to this one more thanonce.
But, please don't.
I think you're right.
I think we do needencouragement for the people to
say because what's the pointotherwise, what's the point of
publishing it and putting it outthere?
So it is lovely when someonecomes back and says I listen to
your podcast, it's great, itdoes keep you going.

(21:05):
But I think I've already gotthe mental fortitude, probably
from those books I wrote in theearly 2000s where I don't care
if anyone reads this Because Ididn't write it for them, I
wrote it for me.
I spent a year of my life inbars in Manhattan scrolling
nonsense onto a page and got itout of my system.
It was kind of like some sortof catharsis, whereas I think

(21:28):
the zombie apocalypse is thesame thing.
So we put this zombie podcastis the same thing, um, I, I it's
.
It's something I want to do formyself and, if anything, what
I'm doing is is I would bewatching these movies anyway,
probably talking to people aboutthese movies.
Anyway, I'm just narrating it.
So, if anything, you guys aredialing into my um and my inner,
inner monologue and my innerjourney, my journey, so you know

(21:50):
, the one that I'm narrating, um, rather than me going.
You know I'm not.
I'm not.
This isn't a tv show.
I haven't got a team of writers, you know, trying to create the
zeitgeist.
You know it's me watching azombie movie that could be like
50 years old and shit, and mejust moaning about it for half
an hour with michael sometimesthat's the best.

(22:11):
Thing absolutely pro wrestlersversus zombies yeah how dare you
a?

Speaker 3 (22:17):
fellow, a fellow creator, um steve urana, who's
on the podcast, recently postedsomething on instagram.
It's a quote from some personnamed rick rubin I don't know
who.
That is sorry, rick, but it's agood quote.
Are 100% successful as soon asyou send your project off into
the world, regardless of howit's received, and I do think
that that's what brings creatorstogether who actually just keep
creating, and the audiencecomes, like we were.

(22:39):
We were surprised too.
We're like wait, somebody'slistening to this.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
So I'm glad that we're all part of the same
community now, though that'sbeen like a great surprise.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
And I think that's why I had to add it to that page
at the beginning of my book,the dedication page is because
it could be very lonely, this,it could be massively isolating
and we can literally go and doit and send it off and, like you
, don't get any feedback and youknow, you think, what do I
bother doing?
You keep, you'll keep askingyourself why am I doing this?
But when you actually do dealwith people, um, like we have

(23:11):
steph, steph grant from this isthe dead on quite a bit.
You know, I mean, I'd ollie theother week and we know
everyone's on discord.
I don't quite do the discordthing.
Um, however, I'm more than happyto appear on other people's
shows, for them to appear onours, and it is a little
community and even if I'm going,followed by someone who's doing
the same thing, you know, it'slike when, um, when I, when I

(23:32):
sponsor someone for doing a race, they will go oh, are you doing
a race too?
Yeah, okay, I'll sponsor youback.
I'm following them, they'refollowing me.
Uh, I'm your one lister, you're, I'm, you're my one lister,
kind of thing.
Um, tit for tat, but um, no, toanswer your question, I do love
it when people you know I keepputting it out there come on,
you know it's very relaxed.

(23:52):
It's just me and michael talkingabout a movie we've all seen
and if people want to listen tothat, I'm more than happy to
keep generating more um watch.
But also we're watching morezombie movies, which we love
doing anyway.
So, yeah, yeah, I do love thefeedback, what there is of it.
Everyone goes on and on.

(24:13):
Oh, you've got five-star rating, yeah, but it's from five
people on iTunes or whatever itis.
But there were five people wholiked the podcast.
I know one of them is Michael,given that he's like Marathon
Mike 1993.
, Are you sure, though?

Speaker 3 (24:30):
but for every five people, there's all the ones who
just never bother.
So I I think it's.
For me, it's about the qualityover quantity.
I love the little communitywe've created, and when more
people come, that's great yeah,um, oh, 100, 100.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
I mean I, when there are new people out there, you
know you do have to like,encourage them, go on and like.
I just got a message fromsomeone to say please follow my
youtube channel.
Yeah, I will do.
I mean I don't watch youtubechannels but I will go and
subscribe.
So you've got another number.
Uh, because you got it.
That's that's all I can do then.
That's that's what I will do,because you know, if you
encourage me, I'm happy toencourage you.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, I, I had a I want to back up a little bit
because, um, when were talkingabout running in marathons,
something popped into my mindfrom a long time ago and I was
wondering if you've ever heardof this running app called
Zombies Run.
We have something similar whereit's an immersive thing, like a

(25:26):
little audio adventure.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, and like you all want, a zombie comes out
from the side and the left andthe right.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
And then, like somebody that pretends to be in
a helicopter, is like wow, thezombies are chasing you, better
run faster.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
They kind of like doing the helicopter noise with
their mouth.
Yeah, Sort of.
I haven't used it.
To be fair, I am.
I tend to run with playlists,the song Peaches over and over
again.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, because you're trying to find those peaches.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well, the thing is I'm running predominantly
ultramarathons, so I'm runningfor like 125 kilometers and
stuff like that.
Wow, I have podcasts, I haveaudio books, I have playlists, I
have playlists and I didn'twant to necessarily be chased
and I have to run through thenight actually on some of these
races, so I don't necessarilywant to be running through the

(26:15):
night in the woods with thezombies in my ears.
It's scary enough as it is.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
I was trying to get back into running and I was like
this will be fun and um, it waslike the last time I went
running, because I I was justrunning along, I thought I was
doing just fine and then a vanpulled up next to me and asked
me if I was okay.
Um, oh, and I didn't know if Imean, I lived in a place where

(26:44):
people typically don't run solike america.
They're like does this guy nothave a car?
Is he escaping somebody'sbasement?
I don't know, he looks scared.
Anyways, I was.
That just popped into my head,so I was uh, I was curious if
you would, if you ever reviewedno, I'm aware of it.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
I'm aware of it.
Um, I I've never used, Ihaven't ever used it though.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Um so let's get back on track and stop talking about
zombies run uh okay so youtitled um your podcast, the
undead symphony, um available onall platforms, by the way, I'm
assuming and a lot, of, a lot ofthose you haven't heard of yeah
, um, yeah, when did you?

(27:28):
When did you start writing yourzombie novel of the same name?
And like, uh, when, when didyou know that that was the name
of your, of your book as well?

Speaker 2 (27:38):
um well, it's an interesting story.
Basically, the title of thepodcast, as you said, is the
undead symphony.
I couldn't come up with thetime.
It's actually terrible thetitles I genuinely I think it's
good.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
It's a great name yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
So basically I I was going to the beginning, I was
got the z list, as I said, and Istarted watching these movies
and started to think about how Iwas going to review them and I
was trying to come up with atitle.
And I think I just watchedzombie Flesh Eaters or Zombie
Creeping Flesh, one of those oldLuca Fulci kind of 1970s
Italian zombie movies, and I waslike, oh, I like classical

(28:15):
music too, so you know Schubert,marlowe and Bruckner, and it's
like, oh, the UnfinishedSymphony, the Unfleshed Symphony
, I'll call it the UnfleshedSymphony.
What a great title.
And I was walking aroundthinking I'm going to call my
zombie podcast the unfleshedsymphony for quite a while.
And then I actually liveliterally 10 minutes away from

(28:35):
the Hellraiser house and it'snot real, it's just a house.
Calm down, the pair of you.
It's just a house, uh.
So I, I could, I, so I walkedpast it and and, uh, it's like
on the way to cricklewood and Isaid, oh, oh, unfleshed kind of
does feel, give over a bit of ahellraiser vibe, you know, it's

(28:57):
like, you know, with all theflesh being ripped off with the
fish hooks and the chain and thelike.
So and so I wanted, I wanted toto move away from people
thinking it was Hellraiserrelated.
And then I became really lazyagain and said, well, I'm not
going to call it Unfleshed, soit's zombies, let's call it
Undead.
So I called it the UndeadSymphony and it was the Undead

(29:21):
Symphony and it still is theUndead Symphony.
And, as you said, lee, peoplewould message me and go I love
your podcast, but I thought itwas going to be about zombie
music, like, like it's a thing.
And and then they were like,you know, because I see I follow

(29:42):
people online as part of the,you know, the community, horror
community, who who have thevinyl um soundtracks, official
soundtracks for all the horrormovies that they love and plenty
of those zombie movies.
So you know you can get theoriginal 79 dawn of the dead
soundtrack, kind of thing.
And so you know, is that maybe?
Maybe they think that thispodcast is about the official

(30:02):
soundtracks to zombie movies.
That's going to have a verylimited appeal, it's going to
have a very, very limitedlifespan.
So even when I went onZompocalypse Brian's podcast, he
said, oh, I thought yourpodcast was going to be about
music and it just started toannoy me and so it's loads of

(30:24):
people now saying that theythink that my podcast is about
music because I use the wordsymphony, right, okay, I need
closure on this.
I need closure on this.
I'm going to write a bookcalled the Undead Symphony and
now I need to come up with whatthe fuck the book is going to be

(30:45):
about.
The fuck the book is going tobe about.
So, based on several years andhundreds of zombie actually
covered over 300 zombie movies Icould probably write a
post-apocalyptic zombie survivalhorror, which is what I
effectively did, but let's justgive it that symphony slant.
So let's make the maincharacter something to do with

(31:06):
music, but also let's make itsomething that's smart.
You know he's.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
he's not a drummer uh , no disrespect to drummers who
are listening.
Oh, what a dig against drummersisn't that the joke?

Speaker 2 (31:18):
it's like how can you that's how you tell if a stage
is flat, you know, or not,because which side of the mouth
is the drummer drooling out of?
Um?
So they're affected.
They're like a human spiritlevel.
Anyway, I'm joking.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Apologies to drummers , ringo, sorry I'm not a drummer
, so that's okay.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
I was gonna say dan's a drummer, uh and so.
So yes, I want to do somethinglike make him smart.
So I think a composer of musicfor tv and and cinema, who has
to write orchestral music,thinking about all of the
different elements of theorchestra, is gonna be smart.
And the cool thing for me whichis in my in my mind I wanted to

(31:59):
do from the start was asymphony has four different
movements and they havedifferent styles, different
feels.
You know, this one is morepedestrian because it's an
introduction.
Know, this one is morepedestrian because it's an
introduction, and the secondone's more the bigger because
it's got more happening.
The third one's a huge, you know, explosion of activity and then
the final part sort of goesback to how the original, the

(32:22):
first part was like.
So basically it's kind of likeyou know, reviewing, you know
the journey based on what wewanted to do at the beginning of
it, and so that means Iactually had a structure.
So now I had something,something the main character
could do, um, as a, as a jobwhich is going to be useful for
his mental, you know, acuity andand and the way that he
actually deals with everythingin in the apocalypse.
Plus, I actually have a storystructure and, to be fair, that

(32:46):
story structure helped me writeit as quickly as I did, because
I went so I've got the beginning, then I've got this bit, then
I've got this bit, then I've gotthe finale and I need to go
okay, which is the first bit,that's, you know, yonatan and
Craig, and the next bit's gotmore people, and then the next
bit's really big, and the nextbit's Yonatan and Craig again.
So it's kind of like, ah, thismakes all this all makes sense.

(33:09):
Yeah, and I had no plan when Istarted the podcast to write the
book.
None at all.
It was only the accumulation ofeveryone asking me if it was
about bloody music that made medecide to go and put a book,
write a book, which then I couldgo, no, but just read this book
.
But the book is.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
That's a a great way to inspire.
Inspire an idea for a bookwhich was actually I.
I really enjoyed the premise ofof the book.
Um, also, like, as writers, wethink about things often just in
the three-act structure.
I love, I love what you'redescribing as the fourth act
just being this kind of revisionof what happened.

(33:52):
I often find the three-actstructure to be unsatisfying and
that's kind of the appealsometimes is that it leaves you
wanting more, but sometimes youwant resolution.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Absolutely.
And I took a fat red Sharpieand I drew lines underneath it
at the end of this book.
That's it.
That's that story over and donewith, and then my editor being
a pain in the ass uh basicbecause I was like, what should
I do next?
I don't know.
You know I mean, if you're, ifyou've written anything, you've

(34:25):
spent a lot of time working onsomething.
I think you often come out ofit sort of like when I spend 18
weeks training for a bigmarathon and you run it over the
next couple of weeks you feelpost-marathon blues.
You need something else tothink about because it's
consumed you for all that timeand a book consumes you for a
year, sometimes more, and so youneed something else to focus on

(34:48):
, because you've spent so muchtime thinking about it,
especially during the editorialphase, that you need something
new.
And I was like I can't think ofanything to write now.
I'm going to get depressed.
And she said I'll tell you whatI fancy.
Torben, can you write more?
And she was interested.
She goes because you know we'renot giving away any spoilers or
anything, but not everyone.

(35:09):
You don't have to go back tothe Middle Ages If the
apocalypse happened today.
Not everything is going to goMad Max, or you're not going to
go back to Dung for Dinner andBow and Arrows, so some people
are going to actually thrive.
We don't really see it in showslike shows.
Like you know the walking deadand stuff like that, where you
end up with like people wearingother people's skin and the

(35:31):
trash, lunatics and all thatrubbish, some people could just
live well.
I mean, the reason why Icreated that particular
community was the high-endsustainability market has
everything you need to surviveregardless.
You know water reclamation.

(35:52):
You know, at a really excellentscale, decent hydroponics and
and solar and all these otherthings that you could, you could
put into your house now that ifthe whole electricity grid goes
or the water water pipes willexplode or what anything that
happens, you know they wouldstill be fine, and I think that

(36:13):
there are.
There would be communities thatjust absolutely thrive if you've
got the right group of people,and I think they're quite
selective uh, the knights ofelysium, and so what I decided
then and it's exciting, uh, newsis that?
Well, not news, because if youfollow me, then you know I was
going to do this anyway.
I'm going to write two nightsof Elysian books and one of how
they all kind of get together asit's happening.

(36:36):
It's a bit like fear, thewalking dead.
So it's happening as it'shappening, and then they end up
at Elysian and then Jonathanturns up the harbinger of Doom
from the Undead Symphony.
Undead Symphony.
Why do I keep saying UndeadSymphony?

Speaker 3 (36:53):
The Undead Symphony.
It's finished.
You just told us.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
It is just finished.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Part one is up to that point and then part two
would be how they as a communitythen deal with what they have
to do in the Undead Symphony tohelp Yon thing with his war.
So basically it's looking at itin two different angles and
like this is them before makingsomething brilliant and now this
is them after having to dealwith aftermath of the war.

(37:19):
So I've got that.
I'm working on the first one.
I'm going to do it linearly, soI'll do the first one first.
People like it.
I'll do the other one first.
People like it I'll.
I'll do the other one.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
Uh, yeah, you should keep going.
I always love an alternateperspective of the same story
because there's just so much youcan tell um from that from that
point of view.
So that sounds really excitingto me.
But we got to get the basicshere first.
For those who have not readyour book yet, we know that
you've seen a lot of differentkinds of zombies.
Tell us about them.
So all of them.
Yes, tell us about your zombiesand what, why you made the

(37:51):
choice for the kind of zombiethat you had in your book.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
I'm greedy, it's the equivalent.
I lived in the States for 10years and I sort of traveled all
over it.
At one point I went to thiswedding in in Georgia, in
Savannah in Georgia.
I stopped at a Cracker Barrel.
Have you ever been to a CrackerBarrel?
Of course, yeah Cool.
So I walked in a naive Englishguy I'm just there to do a

(38:20):
speech at the wedding and thenflirt and it's what you do.
I don't know.
I was young then and so I saidI'll just have the breakfast
special, whatever it was.
And then this person will bethis massive plate of food it
was just like bacon and sausagelinks and huge mountain of of
home fries and like funny breaksand you got the big breakfast
special I'm doing this airquotes special and so basically

(38:42):
I kind of struggled my waythrough just the bacon and eggs
and then I kind of pushed itaway.
And then the same server cameover with the same sized plate,
but it had like a giant stack ofpancakes and tons of fruit.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Next, to it too.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
I went what is this?
And she goes that's the rest ofyour special.
I went this is not physicallypossible, anyway.
So my point is that you couldbasically choose what you want
to eat.
So then I just poured tons ofmaple syrup on my pancakes and
ate them.
So I ate the bits that I wantedand I picked the bits that I
cared about, and so when itcomes to zombies, you know it
comes down to that thing, youknow, are they runners or are

(39:15):
they shufflers?
Are they dead or are they aliveand are they infected?
So I actually kind of prefer theinfected humans, you know.
So, basically, you can actuallykill them and they will die, um,
however, they may no longerhave pain receptors, or they may
, they may not no longer have,um, you know, the ability to
speak, ability to think.

(39:36):
They're just like base baseemotion kind of thing, or base
base human now, um, so what Iwanted to do and this is what I
said, I did actually do quite alot of research for parts of
this, like you know, the waythat, the way that they farm in
it and the way that he sort oflike builds his weaponry and the
way that the food goes off andall of these different things.
I also researched the actualvirus I created, which is like

(39:58):
the pithos virus and what itdoes is based on the way it
affects your body.
It starts by making youprogressively more and more
angry, so it's kind of like therage virus from 28 days later,
28 weeks later, 28 years later,um and so basically, you're
going to be a running angrybeating people to death with
your fists infected can I tellyou what I thought of when I

(40:20):
first heard the pithos virusdescribed just before my period?

Speaker 3 (40:23):
that that's what I thought of.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
I was like this feels familiar, the next person to
ask me what were you thinking ofwhen?

Speaker 3 (40:37):
you came up with the first one.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
This is self-reported with somebody who has a uterus,
okay.
But then I actually wanted bothends of the zombie spectrum.
I wanted to go how about the 28Days Later, know, the world war
z, kind of running zombieinfected.
But then I kind of also wantedthe shufflers because of other
parts of the story.
And so what I said is okay,natural dehydration, natural, um

(41:04):
, rigor mortis, but not rigormortis.
But if you're not eating, you'renot drinking, but the virus
allows you to continue to exist.
You literally just startturning into jerky, effectively.
So, uh, but maybe jerky.
So what I wanted is is reallyto create a virus that at the
beginning will turn you into arage monster running around,

(41:25):
which is exciting parts of thestory.
But then also I wanted thiswhole mass of, I don't know,
george A Romero-esque shufflers,but still alive, for other
parts of the story.
And so I just said I want avirus that gives me both.
I wanted the eggs and bacon andthe pancakes of zombies and

(41:45):
that's what I created purely forthe storytelling, because I I
feel it would be limitingotherwise to either have them as
just runners or just shufflers.
Or when michael and I watch amovie, he goes hold on these
were shufflers earlier and nowthey're runners.
What does that mean?

Speaker 3 (41:58):
you know you have to have a good rationale.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
If you're gonna do, I think it makes so I created at
the beginning this, the virusthat do both, and so it allowed
me the ability or the stretch ofthe imagination, if you wanted
to do both and I could.
Oh, this story, this bit of thestory, let's just have them as
shufflers.
And I think there's one bitwhere he's putting gas into the

(42:22):
Jeep, he's stolen and he's gotscreaming rage, monster runners
at one side of him and he's gotshufflers at the other.
Because it allows you to thencome up with a choice of don't
want to go and try to fightthose guys, that's fine, or
don't just want to pop one intheir head and then push the
other ones over, because they'reyou know, they're just
shufflers, you know, walkingdead style shuffler.
And it allowed me to do that.

(42:44):
So, um, is it lazy?
I wanted both.
Or is it greedy?

Speaker 3 (42:48):
I wanted both, but, um, I think it allowed me to
tell the story yeah, you did agood job of suspending my
disbelief, because it was avirus, and it was just clear
that this is a virus thatmutates.
There's different strains andthe same thing, and that is,
that's all kind of virus worksyeah I mean the, the, in fact
the.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
the biggest part of the story for me was obviously
you know it's a revenge storyand it was COVID, because COVID
affected everybody andregardless of everyone's opinion
on vaccines or whatever, it wasa virus that went globally and
was mishandled by manygovernments, mine included, and

(43:29):
I watched in shock as my primeminister came up with slogans.
So in the book.
he was always using the sloganum, keep the borders open.
The economy is the lifeblood ofthe country and that is the
sort of bullshit they would giveyou and that was their
justification of leaving theborders open so people who are
infected could come in and out.

(43:50):
And it was purely about money,because the people who own the
prime minister owns big pharma.
They own the pharma, they ownthe airlines, they own
everything.
So a lot of this book was theway that COVID was mishandled,
and I sort of try to explain itwith you know.

(44:10):
Actually it's pretty much likeit was in COVID.
We had an app that told us howmany people locally had the
virus, and we had quarantinesand we had lockdowns and we had
tests that were false positive.
We had all the things thathappen in this book to do with
the pithos virus we genuinelyexperienced during COVID.
And in fact, during COVID, Iremember thinking as I was doing

(44:34):
you know, thinking, watchingzombie movies and the like is if
this was worse than a, you know, it was just a flu variant.
If this was worse than just aflu variant, we would be fucked.
Yes, because the idiots incharge are purely trying to make
money for them and theirbuddies.
You know, the health ministerhere gave a PPE contract to his

(44:58):
old school chum who owns hislocal pub, who's got no
experience with PPE at all.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
You're making me feel better about America.
Well, I decided to purely focusit on here, no, I know, but I'm
like oh, it's also, there'salso scandal.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
That makes me feel better oh, and, to be fair, all
of the stuff that happened inthis, up to the point of you
know, with this tiny little bitof extrapolation, but it all
happened, all the all of thestuff that I list that the
politicians did in this bookactually, actually they did
during COVID, albeit slightlydifferently, but we had slogans
that was justification forkeeping the borders open.

(45:35):
We had excuses they decided toobfuscate the data because
people didn't want to see it orit was wrong, and all these
different things that, as youread the book, you're like, oh,
that's really bad, it's makingthings worse.
Yeah, it happened, and so itdoes.
For me, it kind of had a quitepersonal grounding, which is why

(45:55):
when I I started writing andthought you know, the zombies
are the zombies, right, zombiesfor me in any of the zombie
movies and stories and books arejust a catalyst story to happen
.
They're an environmental hazardwell, for it's more like we find
a place to stay hunker down,but the story needs to happen
and to move along.
So the zombies are going tocome through and knock our

(46:15):
security down, set the place onfire.
Some things do.
It's just a catalyst for thenext part of the story.
So I wanted this story to bepersonal and to be about what is
probably more true.
And what was true is thepoliticians fucked up.
And if I was in the sameposition as Yonatan and my
family had been killed by aninfected, would I blame the

(46:38):
infected?
No, the infected is justinfected.
It's just an animal doing whatanimals do.
The person who put thatinfected in my house would be
the person who made all thesebad political decisions in the
first place, and that's why thestory became this quite unique.
I think you know in zombiestories you don't want to get
people going after other people.
They normally just want tosurvive, and that's what I

(47:00):
wanted it to be.
This is actually a revengestory about a man who loses his
family.
It just happens to be in azombie apocalypse.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
And I really appreciate that his target is
the prime minister and it wasreally clear.
I could feel the parallels thewhole way through with COVID.
And sometimes we have reallypolarized perspectives from
writers about whether or notstories should be political.
Dan and I are definitely on theside of we love a strong
political point of view in astory.
What do you say to folks whosay you know what politics

(47:30):
should not be in the storiesthat we write and read?

Speaker 2 (47:32):
Well, I didn't specify which political party
they were.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
You didn't, no, but it was political in the sense of
like.
There was a message and a pointof view.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Absolutely yes.
But then, is it my perspectiveor is it the perspective of my,
my character?
You know it when, when theywrote the egan, you know, in the
walking dead, is that theirperspective or are they writing
a character that's telling partof a story?
Um, I'm okay with people havinga uh, a political, um stance.

(48:04):
You know, when we've all read,you know vonnegut, kirk,
vonnegut jr and bakowski andeveryone, these guys used to
just spew what they believedpolitically.
It's a personal thing.
I think the problem with goingpurely really political, you
know, on the left or rightspectrum, is you can alienate

(48:26):
other people.
It is tricky.
You can't keep your personalopinions out of it entirely,
even if you do it subconsciously.
I want to be more inclusive inmy storytelling.
I wouldn't want to turn someoneoff my storytelling, much like
I wouldn't want to pick upsomeone's book and it's just all
.
You know, crazy.

(48:47):
I'm not going to.
I'm not going to add a listwhat I class as crazy politics.
But the not going to list whatI class as crazy politics, but
the antithesis is what I believeand go.
I'm not going to be therebecause you know it's a very
small group of us and then we'vegot a very limited audience.

(49:08):
That's overlapping.
So don't try to just try toalienate people with something
that's too that's too polarizingwell, I think it's usually
allegorical, right like it's it.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
Well, yours was.
Obviously there was a clearconnection to covid and that you
could feel that throughout itwas not actually covid and there
was no mention of like um, Ithink it was Yanni mostly, but I
guess Yonatan having like oneaffiliation to the other.
In fact, he was very clear thathe did not, but he did, very

(49:41):
succinctly or you as the writer,pointed out real problems in
our world and made some prettystrong statements that I really
like resonate with.
One of them was a standoutquote for me where you said or
sorry, yanni said, no one isgoing to make the decision to do
the right thing if thealternative is to make money.
Corporations, individuals,destroyed the planet for
short-term gain, and thenthere's a little bit more there,

(50:03):
but I'm just going to fastforward a bit through the
paragraph.
But the world has now reset.
I have seen it.
We are finally all equal, like.
Those are the moments where Ithink folks will sometimes say
we shouldn't have any of that ina story, but that feels real,
um and it's true now.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
I mean, we mean, whichever side you are on on,
for the, for the global warming,uh debate, I'm, I'm, I am quite
on one side of it.
Um, I believe that, um, that wegot.
I could say, the world is gonna.
If we do x, the planet will beover in 50 years.
But the men, themulti-millionaires and

(50:40):
billionaires who own a companythat creates x will continue
making x literally, literallymake their money I, I, oh, yeah,
they've renamed it, yeah, um,however, it's that, isn't it?
I mean, is that I've been that?
That's it's our politicalstance?

(51:01):
I don't know, it's, it's morefrom I, I, it's just the way I
see things and it's also the waythat if, especially if, you're
in the apocalypse, you can, thenI mean, actually he's doing
this retrospectively and as as,as, also as the world is
actually descending into, intochaos and society is, you know,
coming apart, it seems that hecan then say these things

(51:24):
because he can say well, even upto the, you know, 11th hour, no
one tried to stop this fromhappening.
You know, and that's you know.
It's the inconvenient truth ofit all, isn't?

Speaker 3 (51:36):
it and it's the deeply.
It's a deeply personal storybecause it results in the loss
of his wife and kid, um, and thegrief throughout the whole
story and the stories of thememories that are always with
him, from the beginning to theend, come sort of, come up every
once in a while, are reallypowerful and like shows the
motivation for why he hasdecided to have this vengeance,
um and you.

(51:57):
He definitely got me to agreewith him.
I was like, yes, go kill thisguy, yeah, please, yeah, um, in
the fictional sense only,absolutely 100, 100 and the, the
.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
I think the issue for me was always that that's what
his journey was going to be, butI needed other people to be in
the story to counter it but also, you know, to to somehow ground

(52:35):
yoni.
Who could?
You know at times, you know,yoni, yoni literally just walks
through towns and killseverything that he sees, or just
walks through a town, doesn't,you know, interact at all with
anything there.
And you know, because he'sdetermined, um, that's some
nasty shit too, uh, to people.
Um, I think he kills morepeople than than infected.
Um, but I wanted othercharacters in there who would
act as a counter, and obviouslyI think he starts.

(52:58):
I didn't want him hallucinatinghis wife and child.
I didn't want him to have themas some sort of angel on the
shoulder kind of thing.
So I had to put a character inthere that would act as some
sort of conscience, and andcraig acted as as some sort of
conscience or they had to growinto that.

(53:19):
Um, it's a secret, I actuallykilled him in the original um,
you know when he basicallybecause, because I think there's
one point later on in the bookwhere Yanni genuinely thinks
that Craig is going to actuallyruin his opportunity to complete
his mission.
And he actually does kill himand I had it like straight out

(53:41):
strangling he's dead.
Such a shame.
Leave him by the side of theroad, drive off, because that
was the place where Yanni was atthe time.
It was kind of like very matterof fact getting things done and
that was just a tick in a box.
This idiot is going to stop mefrom doing my job.
Killing tick and my editor wentbananas.
Absolutely she goes.
You can't kill Craig and I waslike why not, because my

(54:03):
brother-in-law is called Craig?
And I went that's not a reasonfor me to not kill him.
And so I had to go back.
And so I had to.
I had to go back and I thinkit's I'll actually finished it
at this point.
And so I was like, and he'd he'dkeep hallucinating Craig after
that point it's sort of like theangel on the shoulder kind of
thing, and, um, I think he alsoat one point even the the uh

(54:25):
imaginary Craig even says andnot your wife and child kind of
thing, because that wassomething I wanted to deal with
as well, because I wanted him to, because I think Yanni is
becoming less and less thehusband and father that he was
at the beginning and he knowsthat.
So he's kind of pushing himselfaway emotionally from who that
person was the closer he gets tohis goal.

(54:47):
But yeah, I did kill Craig andthen I didn't want to bring him
back and have him survive.
And then I had to because I wasgetting moaned at all the time,
but I didn't.
He may not survive because youknow he kind of gets put
somewhere and left Spoilers,although, to be fair, I actually

(55:07):
do actually bring him back forthe next book.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Yay, so Craig's alright.
That's very good Spoiler.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
There's a lot that's not all right without saying
much more.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
But yeah, I mean and you're right, I think he changes
Yanni and I wanted him tochange over the four, the four
acts as well from being kind ofthis hurting, still recovering
thing, so he's going to meet hisbrother to actually life's
actually kind of this hurting,still recovering thing, so he's
gonna meet his brother toactually life's actually kind of
okay in the zombie apocalypseto okay, now I'm in the zombie

(55:39):
pocket saving all these otherpeople to.
I want to get back to what Iwant to do and that is kill the
prime minister great now youcan't get on an airplane, the
way you just said.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
That reminded me of like when I first heard because,
dan, you, well, you, uh, theearlier version, the first two,
uh, the first two, and Ilistened to it when it was on um
the Zompocalypse podcast and Iyou could do your own audio book
, just putting it out there.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
It's a lot of it's a lot of effort, but you have a
great voice.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Thank you.
I have a face for radio, asthey say.
It has crossed my mind severaltimes.
It is just so much effort andyou know it's 120,000 words.
You know, get one wrong youhave to go back and start this
section again, and it just makesme progressively angry and my

(56:37):
voice changes depending on.
You know how bored I am and orI'm watching something on TV or
I've been talking to somebodyelse, and so even my inflection
would be different during thecourse of it.
It has crossed my mind, excuseme, choked to death there.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Do we need to call an ambulance?

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Those peaches just didn't want to go down.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Are you?

Speaker 1 (56:59):
sure they were peaches.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Yes, I did shake it.
It did sound like putrefiedmeat, but no, it was peaches.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
I have thought about it.
There's a face I'm making everytime you say putrefied meat.
I had to get that on a t-shirt,but um putrefied meat?
Okay, I will not be buying thatanyways, I think that's
excellent.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
It's zombie related.
Um, yeah, so.
So yeah, I have thought aboutdoing the audiobook.
It is just too much effort.
I think I'd rather focus on thetwo Knights of Elysium books
and get them out so the universecan expand and people can enjoy
more Torben, and then maybe Iwill at some point.

(57:50):
You know, I could do the damnbrown and bring out Angels and
Dem out angels and demons.
No one reads it.
Da Vinci code Everyone reads it, goes back and you know we
works.
He doesn't.
Demons, again, I may do I.
You know it's tempting, it's.
It's just a lot of effort, Ithink, to do Unless I just pay
someone to do it.

(58:10):
I've kind of ag of agreed to dothat.
I could do it myself.
It's like anything around thehouse.
I could pay someone to do that.
I just don't want to.
I could do it myself.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Yeah, I could put shingles on the roof, no, but no
, Although my 85-year-oldgrandfather did re-shingle his
own roof and it was veryupsetting to the entire family
while he was doing it.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
You was very upsetting to the entire family
while he was doing it.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
Well, he wouldn't be sitting.
You shouldn't all be sittingthere on lawn chairs.
We were not.
We were not.
We were helping, but he refusedto not be a part of it.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Uh, that would be some.

Speaker 3 (58:41):
That'd be something to watch yeah, this is after the
man had already fallen off aladder a few years ago and
broken his leg.
So we were like what you gotta?

Speaker 2 (58:47):
do is you gotta position lots of those little
you know children's trampol thehouse.
So if he does fall off he justbounces back.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Yeah, but what if he?

Speaker 3 (58:54):
bounces higher.
That is something I wish I'dseen, honestly.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Well, you need to clearly you need to tether him
somehow.
He can only bounce so high.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
All right.
I feel like if this gets snucksomehow some roofing in your
next story I'm not sure how youwould do it.
This gets snuck somehow some,um, some roofing in your next
story.
I'm not sure how you would do it, but I just I require a shout
out in your thank you notes, ifyou include it uh, I I do
believe the knights of elysiumhave a flat roof I was gonna say
I don't think it'll work unlessthere's like, maybe, building a
shed outside, but I I did wantto talk to you a little bit more

(59:28):
about your protagonist, um, andyou mentioned that you think
inclusion is important in yourstories and it's really awesome
how you make it a very clearlyJewish character who is really
proud of their culture and awareof their place as a bit of a
cultural minority inside of theUK.
And I'm really curious to hearabout your decision to do that

(59:52):
and why you think it is that sooften in the genre we're just
defaulting to like Christian orsecular protagonists.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
No, I think it's predominantly because the people
who are writing them areChristian or secular.
I'm Jewish.
I'm part of a Jewish family,jewish community.
A part of London I live in isparticularly Jewish.
In fact, gold is Green, whichis five minutes up the road from
where I live.
If you threw a stone, you'reguaranteed to hit one.
So when it comes to it, I don'twant to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Let's not do that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Can we even?

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
make that joke.
That was bad Sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
I'll delete that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Don't delete it.
I'm Jewish.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
I can make the joke.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
If I was in gold, as green as through a stone, I
would hit a Jew.
It's a very Jewish.
It's not.
It's not orthodox, you know.
It's not big hats and curlyfour locks, it's secular Jews,
you know.
And so I am Jewish.
I'm proud of the accomplishmentof the people that I know and
also it allows me to addelements to the story in

(01:00:55):
particular.
The Jewish story in particularis about being moved on and not
having a place to stay.
So obviously, israel and Judeaand the Babylonians took us over
and then they moved us away,and then the Romans and then the
Greeks and before too longyou're being dispersed
throughout the world.

(01:01:15):
And then you moved somewhereyou think you're not.
You're there and safe, like theuh, the safaris in in spain and
portugal.
They were there, but thenspanish inquisition got rid of
them all and and that's beforewe even get to the modern age
and everything that happenedwith the Hoshua, so the

(01:01:37):
Holocaust in the last century.
But it has the elements thathe's moving on from place to
place, and the Jews who moved onfrom place to place, away from
Israel and Judea and throughoutthe world, retained who they
were and what they believed.
Originally it was just priestsin the temple and it became

(01:01:59):
rabbinics.
So we had rabbis who helpedcurate what everyone knew, and
so everybody, as they movedaround the world, had their
faith and, regardless of,they've burnt our temple down
again.
Oh, it doesn't matter, we, wecan worship at home, kind of
thing.
And and I wanted parts of thestory anyway to have him rely on

(01:02:22):
his faith because he, he knowsthis is what's happened to his
people and they've had to moveon and move on.
And I think there was a bit whenhe's at, uh, bodium castle
where they're expecting thesoldiers to turn up and move
them on again and he's like,well, we can move on again and
we will survive and we willendure, because we we do human

(01:02:43):
beings endure.
And and I wanted him to endure,uh, but based on history and
his understanding of his people,and I thought it was just an
extra element to the storyrather than you know, I think a
lot of heroes they'll go.
Oh, I'm going to dig in.
You know, they're just about tobe beaten by the bad guy, and
then they have that last oomph,and then they we're fighting to

(01:03:06):
the death.
And then it's like you thinkthey're going to die, and it's
that you think they're going todie.
And then, in slow motion, theystand up, a la Jean-Claude Van
Damme, and do a roundhouse, eventhough they were dead a second
ago.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Stop describing my book.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
I apologize, but I did love that bit.
I didn't like that, but yeah.
However, I just wanted him tohave depth and I think faith and
knowing the history of of yourpeople with if they're jewish or
any, any of your, any of yourhistory, gives your character

(01:03:39):
depth rather than onedimensional.
Doing the quotes toxicmasculine christian baseball bat
wielding m16, carrying herojohn in brackets add something
macho stone maybe, john stoneI'm writing these notes down so.

(01:04:03):
So to answer your question, Iwanted to.
I wanted to give him the depthand the complexity that you get
by having uh pride in in your,in your lineage and your people
I really loved it and I think weneed, uh, more of that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
Or like I love when people write from a perspective
that is theirs and not this,just like white male power
fantasy, that it's sort of thischristian, secular christian
well, sort of christian but alsosecular vibes, because I think,
when you, when you did that,like it's not just depth but it
is a reminder and Bodium Castlewas also a reminder of this for
me that, like we have as humanbeings, we are from different

(01:04:42):
cultures, we have differenthistories and certainly some
groups, and including Jews, havebeen directly and violently
oppressed and still survived,and keeping that culture, I
think, is part of what enablespeople to survive things.
Because it's like we've alreadybeen through it, uh, been
through an apocalypse.
I'm sorry, I'm not jewish, I'msounding like I'm sounding I'm I
mean, we isn't humans.

(01:05:02):
Um, I've been through it, that'sfine it really reminded me,
like just the fact that therewas a castle that they actually
used, um, and that there's thissense of history with yanni, of
what people have already beenthrough.
And this is just another moment, this is another difficult
moment, uh, that it is going tochange again, and I think that

(01:05:22):
that's an important thing toremember.
When stuff is life is hardbecause it feels always like the
end, like the apocalypse, butit's just a moment.
I mean a lot of people die.
I'm not trying to, but it'sjust a moment.
I mean a lot of people die.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
I'm not trying to say , you know, the 95 percent of
people who were zombified?
Yeah, exactly, but I wanted, Imean I, I wanted, I wanted it to
seem, not not just with bodhiand cussed, but also with with
the lesion that people willrebuild and people will will,
and and it's it's uh, it's humannature to to endure.
And again, the main characterhad this whole history and the

(01:05:56):
personal elements of beingJewish and his history, which he
could see in what everyone elsewas going through, because his
people have been moved aroundthe world forcibly and then
thrived in some places.
And even though they thrived inone place, they get moved on
again, kind of thing, and itwould happen again.

(01:06:18):
And now it's happening toeverybody.
So he can sort of understandthat these people are struggling
, but it's not the end and uh,and that you know, I think
that's why he wanted to staywith them as long as he could,
or he was actually going to staywith them until, you know, he
discovers what he discovers,whatever.
Whatever it is that hediscovers, what he discovers.
Dun dun dun, dun dun dun.
Whatever it is that hediscovers, I think we need that
long view.
Well, it is, and I think, myissue always with the Walking

(01:06:40):
Dead and it kind of happens inthis book a bit.
But even though he's gone anddone his story, I actually left
all of the other communities,the Freeman of the South, as
they are.
That whole giving thingsnicknames is a bit stupid.
Now I think back on it, but itallowed me to group them and
allows people to group themtogether.

(01:07:01):
It's that they're thriving,they've created a community and
they've created a town andthey've got structure.
And he tells them you need togive them a national holiday
because it gives you somethingto look forward to and things
like that, because people willcontinue to live and it's not
the Middle Ages, we're not goingback to dung for dinner.
Let's retain things that keepus human and our humanity.

(01:07:26):
And even though he goes andcreates the rest of his story
and does whatever, the otherpeople are living and thriving
and are a bigger community.
Now, with teachers and doctorsand blah, blah, blah.
I tend to find there's too much.
There's no, there's no kids inthe apocalypse, or there's no
pets in the apocalypse andthere's no old people or
disabled people or anyone withspecial needs in in the

(01:07:49):
apocalypse.
They tend to just write it outbecause it's easy.
It's too easy and I didn't wantto do that.
I wanted to keep as much in aspossible because it's I wanted
this to be realistic, I guess mypoint is and you can't say, oh,
only the strong survive.
That's a bit of a wanky thing,doesn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
Yeah, very wanky, if I may borrow that phrase.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Exactly.
But a lot of people will writeonly the strong survive.
Yeah, and only the strong couldmean anything.
This person may you think.
You know, my friend's son is13,.
Autistic, brilliant, absolutelybrilliant child.
If he survived maybe he'simmune, but he would struggle by

(01:08:31):
himself in the apocalypse buthe would thrive in other ways.
And I wanted to just make itrealistic and have more of a
breadth of people who survive.
So I wanted communities thatwould survive, because
communities would survive andthey're not all going to look
like, you know, woodbury or anyof the bits from the Walking

(01:08:53):
Dead which are just mad maxified.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
I appreciate that realism.
I think I was reading recentlyabout how there's evidence of
our prehistoric ancestors doingthings like if a child was born
without, like, physicallydisabled, unable to walk, and
yet this kid lives until it'smid-teens, which somebody took
care of them, right?
Somebody loved that person, andI the again.

(01:09:17):
That like stereotypical versionof the zombie apocalypse is so
individualistic and so like onlythe strong survive that it's
not real, and I also think itsends a shitty message about how
we should be as a species and apeople.
So I appreciated that.
One of my favorite moments wasjust yanni teaching some kids
how to play uh, three blind miceby the castle that was lovely

(01:09:38):
yeah the idea of it hurt my earsis oh yeah, you know, you know
that's not sounding good yeah,yeah

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
oh, exactly of all things, but we all had to do
that as kids here.
But there's this bit, I thinkthere's a bit where he, he meets
an old man and his son he's gota son who is, um, I think I
gave him, I gave him Tourette'sand and something else, but it
would have been and yoni saysI'm sorry, I can't save you, I
can't help you, because theywere too much of a risk at that

(01:10:08):
point of the story to him.
But then they actually made itto Bodium without you know, by
themselves anyway, and I wantedthose kinds of people in it.
But not just they're going toend up dead, you know, they
actually do survive, and in factthe old man is the father, is
actually a chemist who'sactually very useful at other
things, and so I just wanted itagain.

(01:10:29):
It comes back to thatinclusivity word, isn't it?
I wanted to be inclusive and Iwanted people to.
I wanted it to be a breadth ofpeople.
You know, these are the peoplewho could survive and it's not
always going to be the samecookie cutter.
You know, rick, grimes, clones,thank you.
Sorry Rick, sorry Rick.

Speaker 3 (01:10:45):
No, we need more of this kind of book.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
And it's the kind of book that we enjoy reading and
talking about on the podcast.
So appreciate it, because it'sit's the other ones that we just
don't end up talking about onthe podcast.
It's it's not realistic, I'msure.
I'm sure they're good too.
Yeah, stormy, they can't boxbox.
Stone is um john stone, johnstone, toxic, toxic, toxic john,
stone, toxic john, if it'sself-aware and making John Stone
John Stone.
Toxic, toxic.
Toxic John Stone, toxic John.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
If it's self-aware and making fun of it like zombie
verse, it's a self-aware,stupid movie.
I'm here for it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
Absolutely, absolutely, sort of like uh,
duke Nukem was the computer game.
You're literally just thisidiot running around, you know
being that, exactly, and justshooting pigs in the face.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
But if John Stone doesn't know that he's John
Stone, I don't like it.
That's what I take onBridgerton.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
Exactly, community is how you survive the zombie
apocalypse.
And I kept on thinking aboutsomething that a previous guest,
jl Draco, likes to say, whichis it's not the survival of the
fittest, it's the survival ofthe friendliest.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Possibly.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
Sometimes, sometimes you've got to choose the other
option.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
I think, something we often do in our podcast.
We talk about the practicalityof surviving the apocalypse.
Don't leave the fucking dooropen.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
What's fucking wrong with you?

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
Use door wedges.
A lot of the stuff in this bookagain is practical survival
advice.
Yeah, and I wanted to do that.
I often talk about this with myaunt and Brian, as well as
Michael.
It's like let's just be realhere.
Use padlocks, lock things up.
You know door wedges under thedoors kind of thing.
Why it's simple.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
I was making notes.
Survival tactics yeah, so manygreat ideas Like just carrying
around extra door wedges in yourpocket.
Genius, it's genius.
It's like it takes up almost nospace.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
You can make them.
If you don't have them, itwould literally stop a door from
opening.
You know, even if the latch isgone, wedge that under the door.
It's not going anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
I also.
I really loved the color codingof the padlocks and the keys.
Yes, I thought that was thesmartest idea and I'd never
heard of it anywhere else.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Like where do, where do your survival ideas tips um,
often, often, often, beingstupid myself, I've got a ton of
keys in this drawer.
What the fuck are they for?
And if only I'd colour codedthem, I'd know what the it's
watching a lot of zombie movies,obviously, and you're just
screaming at the door.

(01:13:23):
How are these women wearingboob tubes and short shorts?
And it's a blood borne scratchvirus you've touched on another
pet peeve.
Yes, why, why, why are youleaving the door wide open when
they're all over the place, kindof thing?
And it's, it's a lot ofshouting at the tv and going
well, that's stupid, how would Iget around it?
Well, not wear a bra and theshort shorts for a start?

(01:13:47):
Um, but yeah, I mean the colorcoding thing was.
You know, it's, it's you startthinking about the actual story.
You know what would I do if Iwas in this story, and I'm very,
I'm very, eye for detail.
And so it's like well, I needto go, I want to stay in this
house and I want to make it safe.
Let's stop people from gettingin, but let's also stop people
from getting in the gate.

(01:14:08):
Let's chain the gate up andlet's lock it.
The gate, let's chain the gateup and let's lock it, but what
if I've got more than one lock?
Blah, blah, blah.
Um, and it was just that it wasliterally coming up with
survival techniques to help yonisurvive the the situation.
And you know, there's there'ssome comedy in there that isn't
necessarily practical, like theindian food thing but him

(01:14:30):
getting the indian food, though,and all of their, you know
their precautionary, you knowthe tactics they had of going
from one door to the next.
And then you know, and all ofthat stuff, um was again, let's
be as ultra cautious as ishumanly possible but still get,
you know, still achieve ourtarget and and and that's what I

(01:14:53):
, that's kind of what I did, andyou know, I'm not a survivalist
.
Um, I don't live in a bunker, Ilive in, I live in a rather
leafy, expensive part, expensivepart of london, um, actually
his expensive part of london.
And so I, it's just oh, if thishappened, how would I?
How would I stop that fromhappening?
And it's just oh, if thishappened, how would I?
How would I stop that fromhappening?
And it's just, whether it'sright or not, I don't know.

(01:15:16):
Um, I think door wedges I wasactually going to that was the
first merchandise that ourpodcast was going to create.
It was a limited edition theundead symphony door wedges.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
If you're stuck, I'd buy one, I'd buy many I'd buy
one, I'd buy many.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
You need to have like a pack of 20, exactly because
they're cheap to me.

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
Yeah, yeah and then you put them in your backpack,
did you?
I want to know, have you testedthe hugging the the toilet with
the pillow?

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
I haven't.
Okay, I haven't.
I'm kind of tempted to test itjust to see if it makes a lot of
noise.
But I don't want my pillow totouch the toilet, so it's a
conundrum that was just meleading up to the joke of
whether you have, like you know,the regular flush or the mega
flush, and and craig didn't wantto die because of a mega flush
um but that was actually that.

(01:16:01):
That whole bit about the stayingin the hotel room is.
I I do travel a lot for theracing and and so I stay in a
lot of those kind of hotels andand I'll tell you what it was.
There was, um, there was arichish charlie brooker who did
um.
Uh, who does black mirror.
Uh wrote a zombie store, azombie show with riz akmed.
Uh, who's in tons of stuff.

(01:16:22):
Um called what was it called?
Not called reality z?
That's the oh, is that realityz?
I?
think that was brazilian yeah,the brazilian is the remake, so
there's it's an english show.
It's based on the tv show bigbrother um, which you know.
It's just a reality show.
You know.
We get cameras watching peoplesharing a shared space for like

(01:16:45):
weeks and we vote them off, kindof thing.
And it was, it was that showand and they don't know the
zombie apocalypse is happeninguntil it's coming through the
door at them.
And the Brazilian version ismuch, much better, to be fair.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
But I was actually watching the Brazilian one.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
I was watching the Brazilian one, reality Z, again,
they're also much prettier andthe people as well as the
zombies.
And I was watching it and atthe end one of the guys is the
zombies are coming in and I waslike, okay, how would I survive
that?
And if you got time because Ithink it was the non-street

(01:17:20):
bathroom he was next to grabyour duvet and pillow, run into
the bathroom, lock the door,stick a door, wedge under it and
now the zombies can go and killeverybody.

Speaker 3 (01:17:26):
Uh, because you can take a nap while they're doing
it, yeah you, can you well?

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
and I was thinking okay, so if I just run in the
bathroom and close the door andlock it, I'm now in a bathroom.
Okay, I can't have that story.
However, the water's going torun out sooner or later, so
quickly fill the bath, fill thesink, so then you've got water,
which is the thing that's goingto keep you alive the longest.
And I thought okay, then grabthe bedding.
Okay, take the bedding in, andif you actually have time, take

(01:17:53):
some food in too.
And so Craig was, you know,managed to spend months in that
toilet by himself.
And then I did think aboutwhat's going to make this funny.
Him not being able to use thetoilet's going to make this
funny, and so it was that, so Ihaven't tried muffling a hotel
toilet whilst doing a mega flushbut I may have to at some point

(01:18:16):
.

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
I think your next ultra marathon.
Please report back.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
I actually have one.
At the end of the month I'mstaying in a Hilton, so I can
actually try.
I might even film it.
Please do.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
Send it to you guys, Hi.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
I'm doing the mega flush experiment.
One.

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
This is a viral reel on Instagram for sure.
Great way to promote the book.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
Yeah, Very, very limited amount of zombie novel
fans that are going to bewatching me flush a toilet
somewhere in Richmond.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
Yeah, you just have to make sure you put a wedge
under the door too, so that youcan sell merch Always, yeah,
always.
Bring a wedge under the doortoo, so that you can sell merch
always have.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
Yeah, always bring a wedge and I'll be.

Speaker 3 (01:18:54):
I'll be in my t-shirt that says putrid me on it you
said putrefied, which somehowseems worse to me than putrid,
even though it's yeah like it'sintentional we want to putrefied
.
It's definitely putrid well,darren, this has been a lot of
fun, and I'm just realizing thatwe are.
We are hitting our timetogether today, so we want to
make sure that our listenersknow where to find you, your

(01:19:16):
podcast, your books.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
Okay, the podcast you will find on all of the
podcasting platforms because myhosting service puts it on all
of them.
For me, it's called the UndeadSymphony.
Actually, again, that's mebeing a bit lazy or smart that I
picked the host that does that.
Um, social media.
Um, if you, if you go on to x?
Uh, that's actually michael,not me, because I refuse to deal

(01:19:41):
with that particular southafrican.
Um, agreed, instagram.
Um, I am on instagram.
I am the instagram for theundead symphony.
Um, I don't mind dealing uhwith zuckerbug, uh, because I
don't personally do it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
Yeah, I get that for now, uh the book.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
The book is available via via kindle, uh direct, so
it's actually on amazon.
So if you want to buy the book,it's on amazon, it's actually
also on kindle and if you havekindle unlimited, I believe it's
free for you I will doublecheck that because I got to read
the beautiful physical copythat we got.
So and I am too, other thephysical copy.

(01:20:19):
Just before before we go, I didcreate a different cover, but
that was sort of silhouettes ofthe story on the and it was.
On the background was actuallya, a piece of old musical
manuscript of a symphony, but itjust didn't look right.
So you know, you go on ShutterShock AI, tell it what you want,

(01:20:40):
you hire somebody on Freelancerto put it all together for you
and bam, you got a good lookingbook.
There you go.

Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
Yeah, it's really well done.
Yanni looks terrifying to me inthis, but in a good way, like
he's gonna go kill a primeminister?

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
yeah, he looks like he's on a mission well, this has
been a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (01:20:57):
I'm so glad we finally got to do this.
I feel it's funny.
I'm sure you hear this all thetime, but as a podcaster, I feel
like I've talked to you beforebecause I've listened to you um,
but it was great to actuallyhave a conversation.
So thank you so much for comingon and looking forward to the
future books too.

Speaker 2 (01:21:11):
Well, thank you very much.
It's been, it's been a pleasuretalking to both of you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
Thanks, thanks everybody.
Thanks, darren, but also thankseverybody for listening to the
zombie book club podcast.
Also, you can check out theundead symphony podcast.
It's out there.
You can find it Same place.
This podcast is wherever youlisten to that.
If you want to support us, youcan leave a rating, a review.

(01:21:35):
You can leave Darren a ratingor a review.
I'm sure Darren would reallyappreciate that, as would we Get
us both at the same time.
Just have them in separatescreens and just cut and paste
the same exact one.
You can just write one.
Be like they were both great.
That's the end.
Excellent zombie podcast nonotes excellent zombie chat,

(01:21:58):
five stars if you want to, youcould send us a voicemail up to
three minutes, no longer thanthat, no more than three minutes
, but also, you know, you canmake it shorter than that too.
That's fine.
I'm at six, one, four, six,nine, nine, zero, zero, zero,
six.
It's like a burner phone, likewe're selling drugs in the 90s.
Um.
You could also sign up for ournewsletter and uh, like we're

(01:22:20):
selling drugs in the 2020s anduh, you could stay in touch with
us that way.
Or just follow us on instagramat zombie book club podcast, or
join the brain muncher ZombieCollective Discord.
All those links are in thedescription down below, where
there's also a way to leave arating and review.
All of it's down there.

Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
And the Undead Symphony is also hanging out in
the Collective Discord.
It's a fun place.
Come join us.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
Yeah, come and join us.
The end is really nigh thesedays.

Speaker 3 (01:22:50):
It is at least for this episode.
Alas, it was great to talk toyou.

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The Undead Symphony with Special Guest Darren Smith | Zombie Book Club Ep 96

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Undead Symphony with Special Guest Darren Smith | Zombie Book Club Ep 96