March 16, 2025 • 53 mins
The flu has knocked us down this week, but it's given us a perfect lens to examine what feels like America's own viral infection – fascism. With voices raspy from illness and minds sharpened by urgency, we dive into what's happening across our country right now, and why veterans like Dan are standing up against it.
This week's episode takes an unexpected turn from our usual zombie fare as we connect our personal battle with illness to the larger fight that's brewing nationwide. Recently, 3,000 veterans marched in DC with thousands more at state capitals across America, protesting the systematic dismantling of democracy and veteran support systems. Yet mainstream media remains silent as our government increasingly targets its own citizens.
Dan shares powerful reflections from his military service in Iraq, drawing disturbing parallels between what he witnessed overseas and what's happening at home. We explore the weight of the oaths we've taken – Dan as a soldier sworn to defend the Constitution against all enemies "foreign and domestic," and Leah as a naturalized citizen who promised to bear arms for the United States when required by law. What do these commitments mean when the government itself becomes the threat?
Despite having the privilege to potentially escape to Canada, we're choosing to stay and fight. This episode is a testament to that commitment – a vulnerable, urgent conversation about what resistance looks like in these increasingly dangerous times, and why defending democracy isn't just a slogan but a duty.
Sign up for our newsletter through the link in our show notes. With communication channels increasingly controlled, we're creating backup systems to stay connected. Democracy needs defenders now more than ever – what role will you play?
Relevant Links:
Days Worth Living comic:
- NamiComi: https://namicomi.com/en/title/FtiXuz7k/days-worth-living
- GlobalComix: https://globalcomix.com/c/days-worth-living/chapters/en/1/1
- Comcraft: https://www.thecomcraft.com/comic-view-artist?title=Days+Worth+Living&comicId=14
ACLU on Protecting Civil Liberties
Zombie Book Club Links
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Join the Brain Muncher’s Zombie Collective: https://discord.gg/rn3nPDa4CB
ZBC Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zombiebookclubpodcast/
Dan's BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/danthezombiewriter.bsky.social
Zombie Book Club Voicemail: (614) 699-0006
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Our Secret Website That Isn't Finished: https://zombiebookclub.io
Our Merchandise Store (Where you can find our Evil Magic Chicken Zombie Shirts): https://zombie-book-club.myspreadshop.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Zombie Book Club, the only book club
where the book is the flu, and Ihave it Me too.
I'm Dan, and when I'm notcoughing my brains out, I'm
(00:26):
writing a book about a flu-likevirus that kills you and
resurrects you from the dead,and this week has been great
research for what thatexperience would feel like.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, I'm Leah, and when my lungs are not so full of
mucus, it sounds like there are1,000 tiny kittens mewling
inside of my lungs.
I'm feeling major FOMO forhaving missed out on dance.
That are in protest yesterdayand that is my voice right now.
This is Leah.
Was that even intelligible,guys?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
this is Leah.
Yeah, hi, it's not somebodystanding in as Leah.
That's what Leah sounds likenow.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, we had to cancel two recordings this
weekend because I realized thatwhen I laugh, I sound like I
have emphysema.
So, dan, you're not supposed tomake me laugh today.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I would never make you laugh.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
No.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
No funny business today.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
This is my serious face and Dan's going to have to
delete face and Dan's going tohave to delete.
I just coughed a bunch so I'massuming Dan's going to delete
that from this episode so youdon't suffer, I'll replace it
with kitten sounds.
Yeah, we're going to do a shortepisode today because I don't
think anybody wants to hear mesound horrible and coughing into
(01:42):
their ears.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah also, we just have no energy energy.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, we're recovering from the flu and
things that was not uhnoticeable.
Yeah, where did we get the flu?
From?
Town meeting, which is a lovelyvermont tradition where every
first tuesday of march, uh, yourlittle town has a little local
meeting where you discuss yourtown budget, uh, any resolutions
(02:07):
that you want to pass or voteon.
It's quite quaint and lovely,uh, but we were in this very old
building with zero aircirculation and about 120 people
.
We were like one of maybe likefive to ten people who didn't
have gray hair and I'm graying,so I'm if I sure felt young
there yeah, yeah, I felt like.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I felt like one of the young people, yeah um.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Two days later, I was absolutely destroyed by the flu
there's.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
There's one more thing that people do at these
town meetings, which is um sharetheir diseases yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Well, I gotta say it was.
I've been thinking aboutmasking more again and I said to
you before we went.
I was like I think I think weshould mask because this is
gonna be a lot of people andit's gonna be a small space.
I didn't realize there wasliterally no air, no air
movement.
It was so stagnant in there andit was like shoulder to shoulder
(03:03):
seating yeah and especially forme I've been thinking about it
because they're at the placethat we have like a little
bougie convenience store for thesecond homeowners and the
locals and the locals locals.
Um, there's somebody thatserves us, always wears a mask
and I think like I don't knowwhat his story is.
I don't know if he has somebodyin his life who is
(03:24):
immunocompromised.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Could be.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Or simply is just somebody who thinks it's
important to mask becauseCOVID's not over and these
things can be life-threatening.
Flu absolutely kills peopleevery year, but every time I see
him I think, god, I probablyshould be doing that too, and I
really, really think that weshould have masked at this event
, and I really, really thinkthat we should have masked at
this event and I regret it.
You, think A little bit.
(03:46):
Yeah, I've lost like two weeksof my life to being incredibly
sick.
I've had to cancel twointerviews we were looking
forward to.
Yeah, I don't know when I'mgoing to sound like a normal
person again, because allergyseason's coming soon.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, so just sick forever.
Yeah, that's what we have tolook forward to.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Sick forever.
But yeah, I think maskingshould be more cool.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
It should be more cool.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And I hate that.
I was a lemming and I just waslike, well, nobody else will be
masking, so I don't want to mask, I don't want to look stupid,
yeah, and then I paid the price.
But also I think of people whoare immunocompromised and can't
come to things like that and ifwe all just mask, they'd be able
to be there.
So that's an ethical thing thatI'm grappling with right now.
(04:29):
I'm curious if anybody outthere is still masking and what
your approach is with masking,because I see a lot of people in
disability communities say likeyo, y'all should all be masking
still, and totallyacknowledging that I have not
put a mask on in years at thispoint.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, you know, after like the first SARS outbreak in
the early 2000s, I alwaysthought that it was weird that
in Asian countries they werestill masking, like it was
totally normal to just be on asubway with like 100 people that
were wearing surgical masks andI'm like, oh, that's weird, I
wouldn't want to have to livethere.
But I mean now I'm like, yeah,they had it figured out as a
(05:10):
society.
They decided, hey, let's notget each other sick anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, yeah, it seems really reasonable and it's
embarrassing to admit that whenother people people aren't doing
it, it feels my resistance toit is stronger.
Yeah, but I did see there areprobably as many people with
brown hair as there were peoplewith masks there, so like five
people wear masks and I thoughtlike I could just have been one
(05:35):
more of those people.
So in the future when I go toevents like that, I'm definitely
gonna mask yeah, um great introleah yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
We release episodes every Sunday, so subscribe and
wear a mask when you subscribe.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Otherwise you might get this disease through your
ear holes.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, wear a mask over your ears.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
This shit is so infectious and so brutal.
I wouldn't be surprised if youall get sick just from listening
to me.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, You're sick now .
You're infected, guys, and youknow what.
There's one more thing that youcould do is you could sign up
for our newsletter we have anewsletter yeah, we have a
newsletter.
Um, I talked about it in thelast episode but it was right at
the end.
I don't know how many peopleheard that, but we have a
newsletter and there's a link inthe description.
(06:22):
It'll take you to our secretwebsite that I have done nothing
with, but, right, there is aform to join our newsletter and
that's important because, inthis era of growing fascism, we
don't know how long we havebefore our words don't reach
your ears.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, also get a ham radio.
That's on our list too.
Yeah, get a ham radio we canchat to.
Yeah, also get a ham radio.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
That's on our list too, yeah we'll uh, we'll find a
ham radio frequency that wetalk to people on.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I don't have a ham radio no we need one.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, we'll get one.
It'll be great you could.
You could listen to the liveversion on ham radio.
That could be fun.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
We'll chat.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I don't know if that's allowed or not, you have
to get a ham radio license.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
That's what you have to do.
Why do you have to have alicense to have a ham radio?
It's just how they make you doit.
Well, before we get into thecurrent apocalypse, of which
there are many always happeningaround the world, but to the
United States right now, andcanada and other places, we're
gonna do a groan from the horde.
We have, uh, like we said last,casual dead.
We have a number of bookpitches and comic pitches, and
(07:34):
this is a great one called daysworth living by rowan and erica,
and we're actually gonna havethem on the show in a about a
month wow, yeah it's a great.
I've already read the firstcomic.
It's really great.
Yeah, so we don't even need tohear the pitch, but you all need
to hear the pitch so you canget excited.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I have to hear that episode, have I?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
heard the pitch.
You heard the little bit of thebeginning when you were testing
the audio.
Okay, that wasn't enough.
But we love these and we thinkwe should put them at the front
of the episode so that you getto hear them instead of
listening to all the sad stufffirst.
What's it like to laugh withease?
Oh, that's nice.
(08:12):
That sounds so lovely.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Are you ready, dan?
Oh, I'm ready.
Are we getting in the elevator?
I think we should go to floor87, because that's this episode
number.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Oh yeah, that's a good idea.
We're going to trump Let or 87,because that's this episode
number.
Oh yeah, that's a good idea.
We're going to trump let'simagine we're going to trump
high rise.
I don't want to, but we have anefarious plan, oh, okay.
Well, if we have a nefariousplan, then it's okay, and this
comic book pitch is our hypetrack.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Okay, this is the hype track.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, to get us ready to go and do some nefarious
things that I won't say, becauseeven when I'm joking, I don't
think I can say them on air.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
No, no, we will disappear.
Yeah, all right, let's hear it.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Hello everyone, I'm Rowan and I'm happy to have the
chance to tell you about our newzombie apocalypse comic series,
days Worth Living.
Set in Illinois during 2005, itfollows a group of survivors
navigating not just the threatof the undead, but also survival
, trust and how humanity hangson by a thread in the face of
(09:10):
unimaginable chaos.
There is no special forces maincharacter with all the answers,
nor any hope for a cure insight, but there is one thing
that keeps them going on theidea of family.
Our team includes myself as thewriter and colorist, and erica
brand, an amazing illustratorthat has brought a fresh and
dynamic perspective to the genre.
We know it'll resonate withanyone who loves their zombie
(09:30):
stories, with a mix of science,mystery and, at its core, deeply
flawed characters and theirstories.
You'll follow Joshua Martins,an elementary teacher left now
in charge of his abandonedstudents, and our first three
issues, which you for free onglobal comics, nami kami or
comcraftcom.
We have many more issues in theworks and are eager to show
(09:52):
them off to you.
Thank you for listening andthank you to the zombie book
club for giving us some of theirtime today thanks rowan and
erica.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, thanks that sounds great.
Um, yeah, it sounds interesting.
I would not want to be theelementary school teacher.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
And I'm really curious why the choice to do
2005, which is now like vintage?
That's 20 years ago, yeah.
So I can't wait to ask you that, rowan.
Why 2005?
Yeah, what a quaint era.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
It's because it's so much simpler.
Like as I'm writing my story,I'm like, how do I explain the
internet and phones and all thetechnology?
How do I make it go away?
But if I go back to 2003, I'mlike, oh well, the internet goes
down the end.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
When the internet went down in 2003,.
Just everyone was like, oh well, I guess the internet's down.
What was the internet like in2005?
Okay, I was in university.
Internet like in 2005?
Okay, I was in university, youwere in Iraq, afghanistan.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Afghanistan in 2005?
I didn't have any internet.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yes, you did, you wrote me emails.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, it wasn't mine.
Oh, it was somebody else'scomputer.
I didn't have my own internetcomputer.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, I had to use my boss's computer when he left
the office to check my emailsand look at the internet.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, 2005,.
There was the war going on, afew of them, a few wars, yep,
yep.
I was in school and I'm prettysure I had a flip phone, cell
phone, oh yeah, yeah, I had oneof those little Nokias.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
It didn't flip, but it looked like a I don't know.
It was like a cylinder shape.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
What a quaint and lovely time I could play Snake
on it.
Hey look, I laugh without see.
I have to temper my laughing.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
You know what, when I was in Afghanistan, I also
didn't have a phone.
I didn't have a phone, I didn'thave a phone, I didn't have a
computer.
Nope.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Just email, email back and forth.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Well, I'm really excited to have Rowan and Erica
on in a few weeks on the show.
Thank you so much for sendingus a book pitch.
Cannot wait to chat with youand learn more about your story.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, it sounds really good.
I like it and learn more aboutyour story.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, it sounds really good.
I like it Me too, and I lovethese pitches.
They're really fun.
I know you can't tell with myvoice currently, but I am
excited.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Life updates.
Leah, what have we been doingin life?
I feel like we've talked abouta lot of it.
We've been sick.
Yeah, we had the flu apocalypse.
Yeah, it was horrible.
I remember one day I didn'teven want to get out of bed.
I was too cold.
I was having the cold chills.
Yeah, I just laid in bed,shivering.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
And I laid on the couch and watched.
Love is Blind, but mostly slept.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
We slept a lot.
I haven't been sick like thatin probably a decade.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
We're very lucky because we're hermits, so we
don't have a lot of encounterswith people who are sick.
We don't have kids Everybodylistening who has kids.
I'm so sorry.
I just it seems like y'all aresick all the time and I am
myself a big baby and I justwanted to be pet and have people
(13:03):
make me tea and feed me soup,which Dan did.
There was probably two daysthat we were both really sick
and like kind of just surviving,but literally it did sound like
there were kittens inside of mylungs crying.
I just was like completelyknocked out, unable to do
anything.
I have not been to work forseven work days in a row.
(13:25):
Thank God I have sick days andI work for a company that
believes in people taking careof themselves when they're sick.
But yeah, being sick sucks.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, at work I don't get sick days.
So if I was, if it was duringmy work season, my boss would.
He wouldn't like hold itagainst me that I'm taking days
off for being sick, but Iwouldn't get paid for those days
.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
No, I got paid.
I got paid to lie in bed andcry, yeah, but we made it
through, yeah.
It feels like a distant memorynow.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, it feels like a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Except for the fact that my voice sounds like this
and I can't really laugh hard,which is really difficult
because I live with two veryfunny people.
Dan and Simon make me laugh allthe time, and it's just
annoying now because I'm likestop it, it hurts to laugh.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yesterday was my first day of feeling like I
could do anything, and I wasstill like destroyed with
exhaustion.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, but you got up that morning and you're like I
have to go, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, I had to go to the Veterans March.
Yeah, tell me about that March14th, they had a Veterans March
on DC where 3,000 veteransprotested.
I, of course, could not go toWashington DCc, but I did go to
my capital, montpelier, and Iwent there and there was about
(14:49):
about 200 veterans there um anda lot of people turn out for
vermont and a lot of peoplesupporting veterans.
Um, also, a high school showedup.
That was kind of interestingbecause, like we were, we were
kind of like at you know, we're,we're getting to that point
where we're like, okay, well, weshowed up, I guess we should go
home now.
And then all of a sudden, likeall these kids start walking
(15:12):
down the sidewalk at us.
How many kids?
oh, it was easily the samenumber of us stumbled inside the
protest yeah, way to go highschool kids and they came with
their own signs and then theythrew snowballs at each other
for a little while and tookpictures with veterans and stuff
, which was really cool, andthen a school bus came and
picked them up.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
It makes me wonder if they were like allowed to go,
or if they walked out of class.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I think it was a field trip Because their
teachers were there too.
That's really cool.
Yeah, because the teachers werethe ones that asked us to go
over and take pictures with them.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
We staged a walkout in our school when I was a
teenager, I don't remember whyDo you need a reason?
Well, true, but I think therewas a good reason, but I don't
remember what it was.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
I remember there was a walkout when I was in high
school and I don't remember whatit was for, but I do remember
that the general consensus is wedon't care what the reason is,
it's an excuse to leave.
And everybody went to theparking lots and got in their
cars and drove away and I had tobe like can somebody drive me
away?
I don't have a car and the busisn't going to take me.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Dan, you want to know something totally random.
I pulled up the plot summaryfor in the flesh that we're
going to talk about in a minuteand kleenex is being advertised
to me oh, so it knows that youwere sick.
Yeah, uh, but yeah, why did you?
Why was it so important for youto go yesterday?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
I mean, there's so many reasons.
If people, if people arefollowing what's happening, like
I think you guys understand,but our government is is going
down the road of fascism.
It's taking away our rights,our very real rights, like
freedom of speech.
Yeah, for example, that one isright now being just torn to
(17:01):
pieces.
Basically, we have people inour government who are not
elected, have nothing to do withour government and are
overriding all of the branchesof our government to impose
their will.
It's pretty fucked.
Elon Musk is that person?
One person is determining whatwe do as a country.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I never wished for a random accident to happen to a
person more.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, one thing very specifically that affects
veterans is that they want todismantle the VA.
They want to dismantle the VA,they want to privatize VA
healthcare, they want to takeaway veteran benefits and
healthcare, and they've alreadystarted doing this.
They tore down the veteransuicide hotline.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
They did.
I didn't know that.
Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
It was the first thing that they did, and then I
don't know where it stands rightnow, but a judge ordered them
to rehire the VA staff that theylet go to reinstate the VA
crisis hotline.
But it's a fucking mess.
(18:20):
It's bad, and I felt, as aveteran, I need to go in
solidarity with other veteransand also I needed to make
contact with other veteransbecause we're getting to a point
where the united states is atwar with its people yeah and
everywhere else it's basicallybillionaires warring with
(18:56):
everybody American billionairesto fight against tyranny, to
tell them that they are fightingfor freedom, for democracy, to
protect the Constitution and ourway of life and to protect the
citizens of the United States ofAmerica, and then think that
they're just going to sit downand just tap out when fascism
(19:19):
shows up.
It's just not going to happen.
I also believe that we'vereceived a secondary education
from our enemies in the ways ofhow to fight an asymmetrical war
against the United States.
Can you explain what that means?
Iraq and Afghanistan, where wehad a very large military force
(19:44):
in a country and they werefighting against us with small
groups of civilians who wereable to hide within the
population.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
So you're telling me that we should take lessons from
the folks who this country iscalled terrorists?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, I prefer the term freedom fighters yeah
partisans is what they've alsobeen called.
You can also look at otherlessons, like the ira in in
ireland, um, they'd beenfighting an asymmetrical war for
apparently 300 years, accordingto uh to um gerard clark, who
(20:22):
uh, gave us a lot of informationabout Ireland last time we
talked to him.
Yeah, that was great Stuff Inever knew and we were talking
about.
It's funny how we go to talkabout zombies and we actually
end up talking about history.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
That is this podcast.
In a nutshell, zombies is justa thin veil for us to
indoctrinate you with socialismand empathy Toxic empathy.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Oh yeah, empathy the worst thing that could ever
happen to us, apparently.
Yeah, I don't really have thebrain power to go into a whole
lot of it right now because I'mstill in recovery from being
sick, but I truly believe thatwe're in a war right now.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
And that the government does not represent
the people, and the people needto fight the government and even
the people that we think are onour side right now.
They aren't standing up for us,so it's clear that we have to
stand up for ourselves.
These are the things that I'vebeen writing about.
I wish I had a finished bookfor people listening to be able
(21:36):
to look at and understand whatI'm saying, how.
These are things that I'velearned in my life by by going
to afghanistan and going to iraq, like I've learned.
I've learned these lessons overthere when I saw their countries
being ripped apart.
You know, I've lived in thedystopian nightmares of our
(21:57):
zombie apocalypses.
I've been there.
I've I've walked, I've walkeddown streets carrying a rifle.
I've walked places witheverything that I own on my back
.
I've done it in incrediblyharsh terrain and environment,
and I've done so in areas whereeverybody there wanted me dead.
(22:19):
Yeah, and I know what thatfeels like and that's what I
write about.
I write about those feelingsand the lessons that I learned
through there.
That's what I'm trying toportray with my book, and I wish
that it was finished already soyou could be reading that book
and be like, yeah, that is likewhat's going on here.
(22:41):
The types of fascism that youexperienced overseas is what's
happening here.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Except for we're selling Teslas, teslars, teslars
.
Yeah, so much computer.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
So much computer in the Teslars.
I mean, I'm looking in front ofme and all of it is computer.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, go get it now at the White House, get your
Tesla deals.
So there's that happening.
There's also some comedy in ourfascism.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I made some art this week Once I was feeling good
enough to make some 3D art.
I've been doing some art withthe main character of my book
the main character of my bookand I get inspired to do art
just by what I'm feeling at thetime.
To be perfectly honest, I'm notmaking anything that's supposed
(23:35):
to advertise my book when itcomes out, because what I made
this week it's an image of mymain character standing in front
of a big concrete wall of asafe zone quote-unquote safe
zone.
And I explain in the post.
I can't really recall word forword and I don't have.
I'm not nearly eloquent enoughto go into detail right now, but
(23:57):
it's something that I plannedfor my second book, so it's not
even timely that piece of art.
But it's that feeling of goingthrough so much and trying to
survive in this highly toxicworld and then getting to the
place where they say this iswhere it's safe, this is where
(24:20):
it's free, this is where it'ssafe, this is where it's free
and it's this even moreforeboding and restrictive
environment that seems like acompletely new world of peril.
And those are the feelings thatI feel lately is that we're on
our own, we're surviving in thisreally fucked up world and
(24:42):
we're on our own surviving inthis really fucked up world and
we're on our own and everythingthat says this is what you're
supposed.
This is where what you'resupposed to do to be safe is
somehow even more dangerous, andthat's that's where I'm at.
I love just listening to you danum, what's interesting, and
this is I see this is one ofyour life updates, leah, oh,
(25:04):
really I think.
I think we'll just hop into it.
What's what's weird is thatthere's also, strangely, this
feeling of hope lately.
Um, hope as like as like,people come together to reject
and resist the will of thegovernment, the will of elon
musk and Donald Trump.
There are a lot of peopleresisting.
(25:25):
Yeah, there's so many peopleresisting and they're doing an
incredible job.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I don't know if I talked about it on the podcast,
but I have a spreadsheet.
It's not as cool as Ollie'sspreadsheet, ollie's zombie
spreadsheet.
If y'all don't know about it,you can, oliver.
I don't have the link anymore,I don't think, or I've lost it,
so maybe give it to us.
Regardless, I have aspreadsheet that I'm making of
just people who are heroic, whoare doing things, who are
(25:51):
fighting back, because it's whatgives me hope and sometimes
there's names associated, but,for example, the Veterans March.
I don't know who organized it.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
No one did, indivisible did.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, a group did.
Yeah, collective power did, andit really that is what's giving
me hope is seeing all theresistance, weirdly not on the
news, which is annoying.
You won't find it on the news.
Um, like nothing about it, likejust it wasn't a blip on the
radar.
Your veterans protests, andthere was one at washington dc.
I think you said there was like3 000, 3 000 veterans, yeah,
(26:24):
and like I don't know what it'sgonna take for it to be like?
what does it need to be amillion people, maybe, for that
to make the news?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
there's been protests in every state capital yeah,
simultaneous protests 50 statesacross the us and they're not
reporting it.
There have been peopleprotesting outside of Tesla.
Tesla, sorry.
And the only time that itreally makes the news is when
somebody comes by and throws abunch of Molotov cocktails at a
(26:53):
Tesla or spray paints a dick onit.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Bless that person Speaking of heroes they don't
know the names.
Also, the person who lit aCEO's house on fire, bless you.
This is the world that we livein.
Heroes they don't know thenames.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Also, the person who lit a ceo's house on fire bless
you.
Um, this is the world that welive in, where you know, up up
is down, black is white, wrongis right, yeah, so, if I'm
understanding the logic here, toset fire to a ceo's house or
draw a dick on a tesla, eventhough they say that's terrorism
?
Um, isn't it the right thing?
(27:26):
Is based on the logic here amis, am I to believe that doing
terrorism is is now the rightthing to do if everything is
upside down?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I mean, I think the this could lose us some
listeners, but I think when you,for example, call folks who are
fighting against the USinvasion of Iraq and
Afghanistan's freedom fighters,I think that that's an important
statement.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Again, not pro-Taliban here, okay, not
pro-oppression of any kind, andI've always been able to
understand why people fight backin those contexts and that
there really aren't any otheroptions.
So, like you said that, um,what's the word you use for
asymmetrical warfare?
I think that is where we're athere inside of the united states
(28:17):
, and it feels really scary anddangerous to say that.
I don't want to say that I'mfor these things, because I
constantly think about my rightto be here as a citizen and
we're seeing with mahmoud khalilas the first canary in the coal
mine, just a spokesperson forpalestine from columbia
university, being taken fromtheir home, um, from their
(28:39):
pregnant wife because they spokefor, spoke for palest.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Taken illegally yeah illegally.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
They have their green card, but there's some sort of
weird loophole language about itwhich is they don't align with
the foreign policy of the UnitedStates government, so that
gives them the right to do thesethings, and that's really scary
.
But what's also wonderful is tosee the courts fight back, in
that we know where Mahmoud isnow and we know that he's
relatively safe.
That we know where Mahmoud isnow and we know that he's
relatively safe because we knowwhere he is and they stopped him
(29:07):
from being deported.
So it's a weird time becausethere's a lot of things I want
to say and I think we talkaround them and I know that we
have to fight back and we haveto say the difficult things
because we can't.
If we don't, then we can't.
We're going to let those peoplewin.
But also, like, how do we dothat in a way that is safe for
(29:27):
us is what I don't know.
I mean, you and I are justlittle people, we're little
pawns in a much bigger thing,and so I'm not saying like we're
on the target list right now.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, but literally any of the things that we say
could be interpreted and themeanings changed if they decided
they wanted to throw us a partyMe just saying I'm happy about
somebody lighting a CEO's houseon fire is probably enough yeah,
honestly.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
It is enough which the veterans protest does give
me hope, because I think I wasseeing you really struggle in
the beginning with this andfeeling alone and feeling that
like sense of duty as a veteran,and now you know there's lots
of people literally like you whohave seen the same things as
(30:17):
you.
They're on the same side as youand you're connected to people
now through this protest thatyou weren't before.
Do you want to talk about that,as you and you're connected?
Speaker 1 (30:24):
to people now through this protest that you weren't
before.
Do you want to talk about that?
Uh, yeah, real quickly.
I first I want to say that, um,a few months ago, and that not
a few months, a few weeks ago, Iwas on, I was on blue sky um
link in the description.
I'm on blue sky, so, uh, and Iwas talking about I have this uh
pinned post.
(30:44):
It's pinned now.
I hope it's pinned for a whilein the future.
And I'm talking about veteransand their duty to disobey, their
duty to uphold the oath thatthey take, which I see as this
blank check that includes up toyour life to protect the people
of the United States, andthere's no expiration on that
(31:08):
blank check.
It's, it's still an effect, Ibelieve, when you take that oath
yeah.
And we take it very seriously,and so on and so forth.
And I had this really long postIf you want to read it, it's on
blue sky and somebody respondedand they said, well, veterans
voted for Trump, so forth.
And I had this really long postif you want to read it, it's on
blue sky.
Um, and somebody responded andthey said, well, veterans voted
for trump, did they not?
(31:28):
And like, that is kind of thefeeling that people have, is
that all veterans are right wing, all soldiers are right wing,
so they all voted for trump.
And seeing all these peoplecome, come out, and not only
were they like, yeah, this, the,the, the regime that's
controlling the United Statesright now fucking sucks and we
(31:50):
need to take them down, but alsothey were cheering at things
like, uh, like trans rights orhuman rights.
You know they, they were onboard with everything.
They were as as left as we are,and I always knew that.
But it does sometimes get lostin the message that there is one
kind of veteran, there is onekind of soldier.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
And it's just not true.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
There's definitely a stereotype.
Yeah, things about veterans isthat they are statistically more
civically active than youraverage citizen.
You'll find that governmentoffice holders tend to often be
veterans, and my feeling on thisis that we've seen fucked up.
(32:35):
We went and we saw theincredible highs and the beauty
of the world outside of oursmall town that we were
desperate to escape from.
And we saw the world and wealso saw the deepest, darkest
parts of humanity.
And when we came back, we wereleft with this feeling of
(32:58):
obligation to make our worldbetter as best as we could.
To make our world better asbest as we could.
And sure, there's plenty ofshitheads out there that their
only takeaway is Muslims bad,but they were never going to
change.
They lack the ability toself-reflect, and you can see
(33:20):
those people in our society.
So the same percentage ofpeople who are, just like
everything is black and white,good and evil, christian or
Muslim, the same number of thosepeople exist as veterans, as do
people who are civically mindedand are capable of critical
(33:41):
thinking.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Yeah, when I used to work at a veteran serving
nonprofit, I had this revelationmoment where I was just like
veterans are the most diverseminority group in the United
States because they come fromall walks of life.
I think one of the definingfactors is that many of them
come from poverty, but it's anincredibly diverse group.
(34:02):
Even, like you said, when therewas don't ask, don't tell,
there were still members of thelgbtq plus community in the
military.
They just couldn't talk about ityeah uh, and I'm not saying I
understand what it's like tomake the choice to do that, but
I, and I think a lot of people,look at veterans in one of two
(34:23):
ways.
They either idealize them oridolize them and look at them as
like, oh, thank you for yourservice, like you're the
greatest thing ever, you know,thanks for fighting for our
freedom.
Aha.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
You can thank us after we save democracy.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah, seriously, or they're demonized.
You know they're looked at aslike the same as being a cop.
And I think that there is somedifference there, because once
you're enlisted, you're enlisted, you can't just leave, you
can't quit.
And also, again, when you lookat the patterns of people who
sign up to be in the military, alot of them are coming from a
(34:58):
situation where it is their bestoption.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, that was me.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, and does that make it okay?
No, but we all make reallyethically questionable decisions
in this world that we live in.
Questionable decisions in thisworld that we live in.
And the truth is is that youare folks who are trained to
fight and you've seen some shit,and I think one of the things
that makes you remarkable a lotof veterans remarkable,
(35:24):
especially folks who have beenpart of foreign wars is you
understand the value of a life,you understand what death means,
and so you take that reallyseriously when you say it's time
to fight.
And I appreciate that.
And so it's really fuckingdisheartening to me to hear that
they tried to pull down thesuicide hotline, because, even
(35:44):
with all of the things that theVA was getting right, veterans
are statistically the highestgroup that's likely to die by
suicide on a daily basis, evenmore than they initially
estimated.
I was part of a every 20 secondsyeah, I was part of a veteran's
suicide study, a national onemany years ago, and when they
actually started looking at thedata, it's it's worse than what
(36:07):
they said.
I don't have the numbers infront of me so I'm not going to
pretend, but we had apartnership with the Department
of Defense.
We were able to actually lookat the data of death by
self-harm and death by suicide,and it's worse than even what
you hear on the radio and in thenews, because these are folks
who have.
You know, you've seen somereally fucked up shit and so you
(36:28):
know more than anybody else itmeans to have, uh, the privilege
of living a good life, and howscary it is this time that that
could be taken away.
Um, and even when you have allthose things, you have to live
with the things that you did,things that you saw people do
the things that we did.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, you know.
Uh, one of the things thatbothers me the most about Iraq
is that we went in guns blazingand we were fighting people who
were defending their country.
Like you know, I fought in thetime before, you know,
insurgency.
We weren't fighting insurgencywhen I went in.
(37:07):
It was a more symmetrical war.
When I was there, it was usversus the Iraqi Republican
Guard.
They had tanks, they had RPGs,they had rifles, they were an
organized military, though theystill didn't stand a chance.
(37:35):
For Baghdad was an intenselybloody battle where it was a
last-ditch effort.
As we were coming into the cityof Baghdad, as we were reaching
Saddam Hussein's palace, and ontheir news they were saying
that we weren't even there, thatwe were lying, but we were like
a quarter mile away.
But that battle, they told thesoldiers of the Iraqi Republican
(37:56):
Guard, the officers of theirarmy, told their soldiers that
their families were being heldhostage by the government and
that if they didn't fight, theirfamilies would be executed by
the government.
Who would win?
They told them that they wouldwin.
It's just a matter of time.
They're going to fight back theinfidel United States and then,
(38:19):
when they won, their familieswould be executed if they didn't
fight did very similar toRussia's way of engaging.
Battle is just waves and wavesof soldiers, regardless of
tactics or their ability tosucceed in the mission.
(38:41):
They were just running at us.
Half of them had RPGs and halfof them had AK-47s versus tanks,
m1 Abrams and Bradleys andup-armored Humvees that you know
were kitted out with .50caliber machine guns, and we had
trucks that had 20 millimeterGatling guns that fired airburst
(39:05):
rounds, and on top of that, wehad Apaches in the sky that
could see everything that wasgoing on and just rain down 30
millimeter hell.
On top of that, we had Apachesin the sky that could see
everything that was going on andjust rain down 30 millimeter
hell on top of them and thenfire hellfire missiles at them
to finish them off.
We had bombs that they couldn'teven hide from underground and,
as they just came at us, waveafter wave, like 5,000 of them
(39:27):
had us surrounded Wow, they werejust dying.
It was just a wave of death.
And they did that to protecttheir country from us, the
invading force.
We invaded them.
They were protecting the livesof their families and their
friends and their country thatthey live in and everything that
(39:49):
they held dear to them and theywere doing it with their
lives.
And I cannot agree with anyonewho thinks that we did that for
the right reasons, you know.
Especially you know they toldus that we were doing it for
freedom and democracy.
We had to deliver the Iraqipeople to democracy and that was
(40:09):
the way that we were going todo.
It is by just killing themuntil they agreed to be
democracy and democratic.
Yeah, andit's.
It's hard to take all of thatand know the truth that we were
actually doing it for oil, notfor us, not oil, not so that we
(40:31):
could put cheaper gasoline inour cars, but to increase the
profits of billionaires inAmerica who already had billions
of dollars so they could havemore billions of dollars, sell
us even more expensive gasolinewhile they were buying cheaper
crude oil and then fast forwardto now.
(40:55):
To then take away our rightsand to make citizens disappear
in our country and to doeverything they can to erode
democracy is a slap in the face.
I knew that we weren't fightingfor the things that they told
us we were fighting for, butthey told us those were the
(41:16):
values of America.
And when they tell you thatthese are the values of America,
and then they do exactly theopposite.
I feel like it's ourresponsibility to say no, this
is what you said and this iswhat it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, it's interesting to hear that sense
of duty in your voice.
And you all can't see Dan'sface, but I can.
I really love this man.
I just want to say that for therecord.
He's a very special person andhe's one of many who, I think,
are going to really doeverything they can.
I wanted to read the Oath ofEnlist for the US Army to you,
(41:55):
okay, and for everybody else, sothat you understand what Dan
thought he was signing up forwhen he joined.
I do solemnly, I, daniel, dan,do solemnly, literally as a
blank this is from the Armymilitary website I do solemnly
swear that I will support anddefend the constitution of the
united states against allenemies, foreign and domestic,
(42:17):
that I will bear true faith andallegiance to the same here's
the rough part now, dan and thatI will obey the orders of the
president of the united statesand the orders of the officers
appointed over me according tothe regulations and the uniform
code of military MilitaryJustice.
So help me, god.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yes, the Code of Uniform Military Justice, ucmj,
article I want to say 92, talksabout your duty to follow lawful
orders from your officers andfrom the President of the United
States.
And the key there is lawful.
You are required to followlawful orders.
(42:57):
Unlawful orders, you have aduty to disobey those orders.
When you are given an unlawfulorder, they talk about this a
lot less because they don't wantto encourage people not
following their orders, but whenyou are given an unlawful order
, it is your duty to say no doyou disobey, and I don't know
(43:21):
the details of this.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
You could probably tell us a little bit more, dan,
about um.
When trump went into office,basically just ousting a lot of
military leadership thatprobably would have said no.
They did say no and that's whythey got ousted.
That's why they're gone.
Yeah, so it's a dangerous time,but I think you've actually
caused me to think about my oaththat I had to make, too, really
differently because of howseriously you take this one that
(43:44):
I had to do last May oh, theinnocent days of May 2024.
It's a different time.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
I also want to point out, too, that we didn't take an
oath to a dictator and wedidn't take an oath to a king.
No, and that is how Trump viewshimself.
He wants to be a dictator, hewants to be the king.
He says I am the law.
What he represents is not thepresident of the United States.
If you don't believe me, askElon Musk's kid who the
(44:17):
president of the United Statesis.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I don't know how you're going to cut those things
out.
I want to read the oath that Ihad to swear to yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
So this is interesting because most
citizens don't swear an oathunless they take public office,
but as somebody who became a uscitizen, you are required to
take an oath yeah, and I'vereally been contemplating it a
lot, but on two levels, like one, what does it really mean to me
, um, in this time?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
and two, just knowing that I signed up for some
things that, in this context,make me really fucking scared,
um, that, like you said, um,citizenships from birthright,
which is in question anyways.
I don't know, um, who knowswhat's going on there, uh, but
it's, it's intense, and I I'mgonna try my best to live into
this in a way that I think isfor the best of this country.
(45:13):
I'm not proud of this country'sorigins.
I'm not even saying that thiscountry and the way that it's
currently formed is that great.
The Constitution is the bestthing that was ever written.
I'm really clear.
I don't think that.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
I mean it's a work in progress.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, it's a work in progress.
Yeah, it's a work in progress,but I do feel allegiance to this
land and I have made the choiceto stay.
We could leave.
We have an immense privilegethat we could leave, and I want
to stay here and I want to fightfor what we have, um, and for
this place and for the peoplethat have come to love and call
my home.
I've lived here most of myadulthood, so this is the oath
that I took.
I love and call my home.
I've lived here most of myadulthood, so this is the oath
that I took.
I hereby declare on oath that Iabsolutely and entirely renounce
(45:57):
and abjure all allegiance andfidelity to any foreign prince,
potentate, state or sovereigntyof whom or which I have
heretofore been a subject orcitizen, and that I will support
and defend the Constitution andthe laws of the United States
of America against all enemies,foreign and domestic.
So, similar to what you had todo and I will bear true faith
and allegiance to the same thatI will bear arms on behalf of
(46:18):
the United States.
I guess that means you'regetting your handgun, dan, yeah,
when required by law, and thatI will perform non-combatant
service in the armed forces ofthe United States when required
by law, and that I will performwork of national importance
under civilian direction whenrequired by the law, and that I
take this obligation freely,without any mental reservation
(46:39):
or purpose of evasion.
So help me, god.
So this is what I mean when Isay like I'm really feeling the
heaviness of this, because it'ssaying that I will perform work
of national importance undercivilian direction when required
by the law, I'll join the army,I'll bear arms on behalf of the
United States when required bythe law and I'll perform
noncombatant service in thearmed forces when required by
the law.
And we're in a time now where Ifeel like any one of those
(47:01):
things could be called in.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah, and that's something that birthright
citizens of the United Statesdid not have to do, unless we
get the draft again.
Yeah, uh, citizens of theUnited States did not have to do
, unless we get the draft again.
Yeah, um, males at the age of18 had to, uh, had to join, join
the draft.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
Um.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
I forget exactly what it's called Uh the uh selective
service um, which I had to dotoo, which I thought was weird
because I'm like I'm joining thearmy.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
And they joining the army and they're like you still
have to sign up for selectiveservice.
It's a weird world out there,uh, but when you swear to
something, it's, it meanssomething yeah and I do still
love canada and I do have theright to be a canadian
citizenship citizen, but I I myallegiance when I did that.
It meant something to me.
I want to stay here.
Yeah, I want to be a part ofmaking the, the place that I've
chosen to call home, a goodplace for everybody to live.
(47:53):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
I sometimes wonder if I could also be held under fire
when they're talking aboutbirthright citizenship because I
was not born in the US.
Yeah, A lot of people don'tknow that I was born in Athens,
Greece.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Deport him.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Okay, don't know that .
I was born in athens, greece.
Deport him.
Okay, my biological father wasa member of the us navy and I
was born overseas.
Um, and I lived in a small towncalled neomachary, neomachary,
greece, just outside of athens,and that's where I was born and
until I joined the army, I think, I held dual citizenship
between the Republic of Greeceand the United States.
(48:42):
I don't know how that worksanymore.
I think I had to denounce it.
But, greece, let me know if youwant me back.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Be nice to visit one day, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Can we?
Can we trade our house for anice Greek Palazzo or something?
Speaker 2 (48:57):
I don't want to leave .
I like it here.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
It's a little boy, it's nice in Greece, just saying
.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
It's feeling increasingly irrational, but I'm
like no.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Yeah, I mean that's how I've been feeling too, too,
because, like, because you are aCanadian citizen, like we kind
of have a bit of an out ifthings get really bad.
Yeah, it's a little bit morecomplicated for me and even more
complicated for my brother,simon, who we would want to
bring with us.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, I'm not going without him, but you know
there's a possibility goingwithout him, but you know it's
there's.
There's a possibility.
There's a possibility forescape from a totalitarian
regime that wants to kill us andtell us that we're terrorists
and also annex canada.
So yeah, we'll see about that,yeah, um, but I, I, I feel like
(49:48):
it's it, like it's my duty tostay in spite of the US
government.
I feel like I have to stay hereand make it hard for them.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
That's what I feel.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Same, speaking of trauma responses or what your
gut reaction is in this case,it's fight for me and it is for
you too.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
I've never wanted to fight harder in my life, me
neither.
Now, when I leave the house, Ibring my nazi punch and gloves
he does it's not a joke.
Yeah, we were gonna talk aboutsome other stuff today, but we,
this, this, uh, thisconversation, we can we?
We didn't even get through getthrough our life updates, did we
?
We didn't?
Speaker 2 (50:25):
I don't, you know, I, I actually have a backlog of
things I want to do in ourcasual deads, like talk about in
the flesh, even though wedidn't.
I don't, you know, I I actuallyhave a backlog of things I want
to do in our casual deads, liketalk about in the flesh, even
though we didn't get to finishit, because I won't support
amazon anymore, um, and otherzombie stuff.
But like, even when you werejust describing your experience
in iraq, I'm like that soundslike a fucking zombie horde
(50:48):
coming at you, except thatthey're real people who are
sentient and we're also afraid.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, they were terrified.
Yeah, they were so close thatwe could hear them yelling.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
Yeah, so the podcast continues to evolve.
We're going to keep havingguests on.
They're going to talk aboutbooks.
We are going to talk aboutmovies and stuff.
I really want to talk aboutbeing fat in the apocalypse
sometime.
That's on my list.
Next week coming out is aninterview with Jenna Crisfanti
on Talc, a Haitian zombie story,which is a really good episode
(51:22):
but also talks about the realityof our time.
And for those of you who aresticking it through and
listening to this horribleversion of my voice, I don't
even know why you're listening.
But you know what I've neverknown why you were listening to
be honest.
Yeah, it's just me and Dantalking to each other, just
chatting.
Yeah, but I hope that you'rewell out there.
If you took an oath, like whatDan and I did, I wonder what
(51:46):
you're contemplating.
And if you didn't, what does itmean to you to live in the
United States today?
That's my question that I wantto leave with.
What does it mean for you to behere?
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Also, if you're not in the United States, how does
it feel watching the UnitedStates right now?
Yeah, let us know.
Do you want to punch all of us?
Yeah, come, punch us.
Yeah, please punch us, punch a.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Nazi first.
Oh, oh.
I shouldn't do it.
I'll just say this.
I'll end with polymorphously.
Who wrote the zombiere-erection?
Only sex can save us.
Dm'd us recently and, becauseof all of the ridiculousness,
has a new book idea.
I don't have permission becauseI haven't asked if we can share
it, but it involves canada andI'd really like to read it.
That's's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
Oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, we need it more than ever, bali.
We need ludicrous smut toreflect the times, so we can
laugh and feel horny.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Thanks for listening guys to the Zombie Book Club.
Thanks for listening to theprevious episodes as well,
especially this episode, aswe're sick, low energy, angry
about the government and don'thave a whole lot of zombie talk
in us right now, because ourcurrent apocalypse is so much
worse, um, and it's, it's, it'sgetting worse.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Might sound crazy, but the end is nigh, baby, bye,
bye.
Bye, don't die, you're welcome.
Bye, everybody, bye.
Welcome to the Zombie Book Club, the only book club
where the book is the flu, and Ihave it Me too.
I'm Dan, and when I'm notcoughing my brains out, I'm
(00:26):
writing a book about a flu-likevirus that kills you and
resurrects you from the dead,and this week has been great
research for what thatexperience would feel like.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, I'm Leah, and when my lungs are not so full of
mucus, it sounds like there are1,000 tiny kittens mewling
inside of my lungs.
I'm feeling major FOMO forhaving missed out on dance.
That are in protest yesterdayand that is my voice right now.
This is Leah.
Was that even intelligible,guys?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
this is Leah.
Yeah, hi, it's not somebodystanding in as Leah.
That's what Leah sounds likenow.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, we had to cancel two recordings this
weekend because I realized thatwhen I laugh, I sound like I
have emphysema.
So, dan, you're not supposed tomake me laugh today.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I would never make you laugh.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
No.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
No funny business today.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
This is my serious face and Dan's going to have to
delete face and Dan's going tohave to delete.
I just coughed a bunch so I'massuming Dan's going to delete
that from this episode so youdon't suffer, I'll replace it
with kitten sounds.
Yeah, we're going to do a shortepisode today because I don't
think anybody wants to hear mesound horrible and coughing into
(01:42):
their ears.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah also, we just have no energy energy.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, we're recovering from the flu and
things that was not uhnoticeable.
Yeah, where did we get the flu?
From?
Town meeting, which is a lovelyvermont tradition where every
first tuesday of march, uh, yourlittle town has a little local
meeting where you discuss yourtown budget, uh, any resolutions
(02:07):
that you want to pass or voteon.
It's quite quaint and lovely,uh, but we were in this very old
building with zero aircirculation and about 120 people
.
We were like one of maybe likefive to ten people who didn't
have gray hair and I'm graying,so I'm if I sure felt young
there yeah, yeah, I felt like.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I felt like one of the young people, yeah um.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Two days later, I was absolutely destroyed by the flu
there's.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
There's one more thing that people do at these
town meetings, which is um sharetheir diseases yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Well, I gotta say it was.
I've been thinking aboutmasking more again and I said to
you before we went.
I was like I think I think weshould mask because this is
gonna be a lot of people andit's gonna be a small space.
I didn't realize there wasliterally no air, no air
movement.
It was so stagnant in there andit was like shoulder to shoulder
(03:03):
seating yeah and especially forme I've been thinking about it
because they're at the placethat we have like a little
bougie convenience store for thesecond homeowners and the
locals and the locals locals.
Um, there's somebody thatserves us, always wears a mask
and I think like I don't knowwhat his story is.
I don't know if he has somebodyin his life who is
(03:24):
immunocompromised.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Could be.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Or simply is just somebody who thinks it's
important to mask becauseCOVID's not over and these
things can be life-threatening.
Flu absolutely kills peopleevery year, but every time I see
him I think, god, I probablyshould be doing that too, and I
really, really think that weshould have masked at this event
, and I really, really thinkthat we should have masked at
this event and I regret it.
You, think A little bit.
(03:46):
Yeah, I've lost like two weeksof my life to being incredibly
sick.
I've had to cancel twointerviews we were looking
forward to.
Yeah, I don't know when I'mgoing to sound like a normal
person again, because allergyseason's coming soon.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, so just sick forever.
Yeah, that's what we have tolook forward to.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Sick forever.
But yeah, I think maskingshould be more cool.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
It should be more cool.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And I hate that.
I was a lemming and I just waslike, well, nobody else will be
masking, so I don't want to mask, I don't want to look stupid,
yeah, and then I paid the price.
But also I think of people whoare immunocompromised and can't
come to things like that and ifwe all just mask, they'd be able
to be there.
So that's an ethical thing thatI'm grappling with right now.
(04:29):
I'm curious if anybody outthere is still masking and what
your approach is with masking,because I see a lot of people in
disability communities say likeyo, y'all should all be masking
still, and totallyacknowledging that I have not
put a mask on in years at thispoint.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, you know, after like the first SARS outbreak in
the early 2000s, I alwaysthought that it was weird that
in Asian countries they werestill masking, like it was
totally normal to just be on asubway with like 100 people that
were wearing surgical masks andI'm like, oh, that's weird, I
wouldn't want to have to livethere.
But I mean now I'm like, yeah,they had it figured out as a
(05:10):
society.
They decided, hey, let's notget each other sick anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, yeah, it seems really reasonable and it's
embarrassing to admit that whenother people people aren't doing
it, it feels my resistance toit is stronger.
Yeah, but I did see there areprobably as many people with
brown hair as there were peoplewith masks there, so like five
people wear masks and I thoughtlike I could just have been one
(05:35):
more of those people.
So in the future when I go toevents like that, I'm definitely
gonna mask yeah, um great introleah yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
We release episodes every Sunday, so subscribe and
wear a mask when you subscribe.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Otherwise you might get this disease through your
ear holes.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, wear a mask over your ears.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
This shit is so infectious and so brutal.
I wouldn't be surprised if youall get sick just from listening
to me.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, You're sick now .
You're infected, guys, and youknow what.
There's one more thing that youcould do is you could sign up
for our newsletter we have anewsletter yeah, we have a
newsletter.
Um, I talked about it in thelast episode but it was right at
the end.
I don't know how many peopleheard that, but we have a
newsletter and there's a link inthe description.
(06:22):
It'll take you to our secretwebsite that I have done nothing
with, but, right, there is aform to join our newsletter and
that's important because, inthis era of growing fascism, we
don't know how long we havebefore our words don't reach
your ears.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, also get a ham radio.
That's on our list too.
Yeah, get a ham radio we canchat to.
Yeah, also get a ham radio.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
That's on our list too, yeah we'll uh, we'll find a
ham radio frequency that wetalk to people on.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I don't have a ham radio no we need one.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, we'll get one.
It'll be great you could.
You could listen to the liveversion on ham radio.
That could be fun.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
We'll chat.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I don't know if that's allowed or not, you have
to get a ham radio license.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
That's what you have to do.
Why do you have to have alicense to have a ham radio?
It's just how they make you doit.
Well, before we get into thecurrent apocalypse, of which
there are many always happeningaround the world, but to the
United States right now, andcanada and other places, we're
gonna do a groan from the horde.
We have, uh, like we said last,casual dead.
We have a number of bookpitches and comic pitches, and
(07:34):
this is a great one called daysworth living by rowan and erica,
and we're actually gonna havethem on the show in a about a
month wow, yeah it's a great.
I've already read the firstcomic.
It's really great.
Yeah, so we don't even need tohear the pitch, but you all need
to hear the pitch so you canget excited.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I have to hear that episode, have I?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
heard the pitch.
You heard the little bit of thebeginning when you were testing
the audio.
Okay, that wasn't enough.
But we love these and we thinkwe should put them at the front
of the episode so that you getto hear them instead of
listening to all the sad stufffirst.
What's it like to laugh withease?
Oh, that's nice.
(08:12):
That sounds so lovely.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Are you ready, dan?
Oh, I'm ready.
Are we getting in the elevator?
I think we should go to floor87, because that's this episode
number.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Oh yeah, that's a good idea.
We're going to trump Let or 87,because that's this episode
number.
Oh yeah, that's a good idea.
We're going to trump let'simagine we're going to trump
high rise.
I don't want to, but we have anefarious plan, oh, okay.
Well, if we have a nefariousplan, then it's okay, and this
comic book pitch is our hypetrack.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Okay, this is the hype track.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, to get us ready to go and do some nefarious
things that I won't say, becauseeven when I'm joking, I don't
think I can say them on air.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
No, no, we will disappear.
Yeah, all right, let's hear it.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Hello everyone, I'm Rowan and I'm happy to have the
chance to tell you about our newzombie apocalypse comic series,
days Worth Living.
Set in Illinois during 2005, itfollows a group of survivors
navigating not just the threatof the undead, but also survival
, trust and how humanity hangson by a thread in the face of
(09:10):
unimaginable chaos.
There is no special forces maincharacter with all the answers,
nor any hope for a cure insight, but there is one thing
that keeps them going on theidea of family.
Our team includes myself as thewriter and colorist, and erica
brand, an amazing illustratorthat has brought a fresh and
dynamic perspective to the genre.
We know it'll resonate withanyone who loves their zombie
(09:30):
stories, with a mix of science,mystery and, at its core, deeply
flawed characters and theirstories.
You'll follow Joshua Martins,an elementary teacher left now
in charge of his abandonedstudents, and our first three
issues, which you for free onglobal comics, nami kami or
comcraftcom.
We have many more issues in theworks and are eager to show
(09:52):
them off to you.
Thank you for listening andthank you to the zombie book
club for giving us some of theirtime today thanks rowan and
erica.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, thanks that sounds great.
Um, yeah, it sounds interesting.
I would not want to be theelementary school teacher.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
And I'm really curious why the choice to do
2005, which is now like vintage?
That's 20 years ago, yeah.
So I can't wait to ask you that, rowan.
Why 2005?
Yeah, what a quaint era.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
It's because it's so much simpler.
Like as I'm writing my story,I'm like, how do I explain the
internet and phones and all thetechnology?
How do I make it go away?
But if I go back to 2003, I'mlike, oh well, the internet goes
down the end.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
When the internet went down in 2003,.
Just everyone was like, oh well, I guess the internet's down.
What was the internet like in2005?
Okay, I was in university.
Internet like in 2005?
Okay, I was in university, youwere in Iraq, afghanistan.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Afghanistan in 2005?
I didn't have any internet.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yes, you did, you wrote me emails.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, it wasn't mine.
Oh, it was somebody else'scomputer.
I didn't have my own internetcomputer.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, I had to use my boss's computer when he left
the office to check my emailsand look at the internet.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, 2005,.
There was the war going on, afew of them, a few wars, yep,
yep.
I was in school and I'm prettysure I had a flip phone, cell
phone, oh yeah, yeah, I had oneof those little Nokias.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
It didn't flip, but it looked like a I don't know.
It was like a cylinder shape.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
What a quaint and lovely time I could play Snake
on it.
Hey look, I laugh without see.
I have to temper my laughing.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
You know what, when I was in Afghanistan, I also
didn't have a phone.
I didn't have a phone, I didn'thave a phone, I didn't have a
computer.
Nope.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Just email, email back and forth.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Well, I'm really excited to have Rowan and Erica
on in a few weeks on the show.
Thank you so much for sendingus a book pitch.
Cannot wait to chat with youand learn more about your story.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, it sounds really good.
I like it and learn more aboutyour story.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, it sounds really good.
I like it Me too, and I lovethese pitches.
They're really fun.
I know you can't tell with myvoice currently, but I am
excited.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Life updates.
Leah, what have we been doingin life?
I feel like we've talked abouta lot of it.
We've been sick.
Yeah, we had the flu apocalypse.
Yeah, it was horrible.
I remember one day I didn'teven want to get out of bed.
I was too cold.
I was having the cold chills.
Yeah, I just laid in bed,shivering.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
And I laid on the couch and watched.
Love is Blind, but mostly slept.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
We slept a lot.
I haven't been sick like thatin probably a decade.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
We're very lucky because we're hermits, so we
don't have a lot of encounterswith people who are sick.
We don't have kids Everybodylistening who has kids.
I'm so sorry.
I just it seems like y'all aresick all the time and I am
myself a big baby and I justwanted to be pet and have people
(13:03):
make me tea and feed me soup,which Dan did.
There was probably two daysthat we were both really sick
and like kind of just surviving,but literally it did sound like
there were kittens inside of mylungs crying.
I just was like completelyknocked out, unable to do
anything.
I have not been to work forseven work days in a row.
(13:25):
Thank God I have sick days andI work for a company that
believes in people taking careof themselves when they're sick.
But yeah, being sick sucks.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, at work I don't get sick days.
So if I was, if it was duringmy work season, my boss would.
He wouldn't like hold itagainst me that I'm taking days
off for being sick, but Iwouldn't get paid for those days
.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
No, I got paid.
I got paid to lie in bed andcry, yeah, but we made it
through, yeah.
It feels like a distant memorynow.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, it feels like a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Except for the fact that my voice sounds like this
and I can't really laugh hard,which is really difficult
because I live with two veryfunny people.
Dan and Simon make me laugh allthe time, and it's just
annoying now because I'm likestop it, it hurts to laugh.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yesterday was my first day of feeling like I
could do anything, and I wasstill like destroyed with
exhaustion.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, but you got up that morning and you're like I
have to go, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, I had to go to the Veterans March.
Yeah, tell me about that March14th, they had a Veterans March
on DC where 3,000 veteransprotested.
I, of course, could not go toWashington DCc, but I did go to
my capital, montpelier, and Iwent there and there was about
(14:49):
about 200 veterans there um anda lot of people turn out for
vermont and a lot of peoplesupporting veterans.
Um, also, a high school showedup.
That was kind of interestingbecause, like we were, we were
kind of like at you know, we're,we're getting to that point
where we're like, okay, well, weshowed up, I guess we should go
home now.
And then all of a sudden, likeall these kids start walking
(15:12):
down the sidewalk at us.
How many kids?
oh, it was easily the samenumber of us stumbled inside the
protest yeah, way to go highschool kids and they came with
their own signs and then theythrew snowballs at each other
for a little while and tookpictures with veterans and stuff
, which was really cool, andthen a school bus came and
picked them up.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
It makes me wonder if they were like allowed to go,
or if they walked out of class.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I think it was a field trip Because their
teachers were there too.
That's really cool.
Yeah, because the teachers werethe ones that asked us to go
over and take pictures with them.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
We staged a walkout in our school when I was a
teenager, I don't remember whyDo you need a reason?
Well, true, but I think therewas a good reason, but I don't
remember what it was.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
I remember there was a walkout when I was in high
school and I don't remember whatit was for, but I do remember
that the general consensus is wedon't care what the reason is,
it's an excuse to leave.
And everybody went to theparking lots and got in their
cars and drove away and I had tobe like can somebody drive me
away?
I don't have a car and the busisn't going to take me.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Dan, you want to know something totally random.
I pulled up the plot summaryfor in the flesh that we're
going to talk about in a minuteand kleenex is being advertised
to me oh, so it knows that youwere sick.
Yeah, uh, but yeah, why did you?
Why was it so important for youto go yesterday?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
I mean, there's so many reasons.
If people, if people arefollowing what's happening, like
I think you guys understand,but our government is is going
down the road of fascism.
It's taking away our rights,our very real rights, like
freedom of speech.
Yeah, for example, that one isright now being just torn to
(17:01):
pieces.
Basically, we have people inour government who are not
elected, have nothing to do withour government and are
overriding all of the branchesof our government to impose
their will.
It's pretty fucked.
Elon Musk is that person?
One person is determining whatwe do as a country.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I never wished for a random accident to happen to a
person more.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, one thing very specifically that affects
veterans is that they want todismantle the VA.
They want to dismantle the VA,they want to privatize VA
healthcare, they want to takeaway veteran benefits and
healthcare, and they've alreadystarted doing this.
They tore down the veteransuicide hotline.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
They did.
I didn't know that.
Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
It was the first thing that they did, and then I
don't know where it stands rightnow, but a judge ordered them
to rehire the VA staff that theylet go to reinstate the VA
crisis hotline.
But it's a fucking mess.
(18:20):
It's bad, and I felt, as aveteran, I need to go in
solidarity with other veteransand also I needed to make
contact with other veteransbecause we're getting to a point
where the united states is atwar with its people yeah and
everywhere else it's basicallybillionaires warring with
(18:56):
everybody American billionairesto fight against tyranny, to
tell them that they are fightingfor freedom, for democracy, to
protect the Constitution and ourway of life and to protect the
citizens of the United States ofAmerica, and then think that
they're just going to sit downand just tap out when fascism
(19:19):
shows up.
It's just not going to happen.
I also believe that we'vereceived a secondary education
from our enemies in the ways ofhow to fight an asymmetrical war
against the United States.
Can you explain what that means?
Iraq and Afghanistan, where wehad a very large military force
(19:44):
in a country and they werefighting against us with small
groups of civilians who wereable to hide within the
population.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
So you're telling me that we should take lessons from
the folks who this country iscalled terrorists?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, I prefer the term freedom fighters yeah
partisans is what they've alsobeen called.
You can also look at otherlessons, like the ira in in
ireland, um, they'd beenfighting an asymmetrical war for
apparently 300 years, accordingto uh to um gerard clark, who
(20:22):
uh, gave us a lot of informationabout Ireland last time we
talked to him.
Yeah, that was great Stuff Inever knew and we were talking
about.
It's funny how we go to talkabout zombies and we actually
end up talking about history.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
That is this podcast.
In a nutshell, zombies is justa thin veil for us to
indoctrinate you with socialismand empathy Toxic empathy.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Oh yeah, empathy the worst thing that could ever
happen to us, apparently.
Yeah, I don't really have thebrain power to go into a whole
lot of it right now because I'mstill in recovery from being
sick, but I truly believe thatwe're in a war right now.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
And that the government does not represent
the people, and the people needto fight the government and even
the people that we think are onour side right now.
They aren't standing up for us,so it's clear that we have to
stand up for ourselves.
These are the things that I'vebeen writing about.
I wish I had a finished bookfor people listening to be able
(21:36):
to look at and understand whatI'm saying, how.
These are things that I'velearned in my life by by going
to afghanistan and going to iraq, like I've learned.
I've learned these lessons overthere when I saw their countries
being ripped apart.
You know, I've lived in thedystopian nightmares of our
(21:57):
zombie apocalypses.
I've been there.
I've I've walked, I've walkeddown streets carrying a rifle.
I've walked places witheverything that I own on my back
.
I've done it in incrediblyharsh terrain and environment,
and I've done so in areas whereeverybody there wanted me dead.
(22:19):
Yeah, and I know what thatfeels like and that's what I
write about.
I write about those feelingsand the lessons that I learned
through there.
That's what I'm trying toportray with my book, and I wish
that it was finished already soyou could be reading that book
and be like, yeah, that is likewhat's going on here.
(22:41):
The types of fascism that youexperienced overseas is what's
happening here.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Except for we're selling Teslas, teslars, teslars
.
Yeah, so much computer.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
So much computer in the Teslars.
I mean, I'm looking in front ofme and all of it is computer.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, go get it now at the White House, get your
Tesla deals.
So there's that happening.
There's also some comedy in ourfascism.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I made some art this week Once I was feeling good
enough to make some 3D art.
I've been doing some art withthe main character of my book
the main character of my bookand I get inspired to do art
just by what I'm feeling at thetime.
To be perfectly honest, I'm notmaking anything that's supposed
(23:35):
to advertise my book when itcomes out, because what I made
this week it's an image of mymain character standing in front
of a big concrete wall of asafe zone quote-unquote safe
zone.
And I explain in the post.
I can't really recall word forword and I don't have.
I'm not nearly eloquent enoughto go into detail right now, but
(23:57):
it's something that I plannedfor my second book, so it's not
even timely that piece of art.
But it's that feeling of goingthrough so much and trying to
survive in this highly toxicworld and then getting to the
place where they say this iswhere it's safe, this is where
(24:20):
it's free, this is where it'ssafe, this is where it's free
and it's this even moreforeboding and restrictive
environment that seems like acompletely new world of peril.
And those are the feelings thatI feel lately is that we're on
our own, we're surviving in thisreally fucked up world and
(24:42):
we're on our own surviving inthis really fucked up world and
we're on our own and everythingthat says this is what you're
supposed.
This is where what you'resupposed to do to be safe is
somehow even more dangerous, andthat's that's where I'm at.
I love just listening to you danum, what's interesting, and
this is I see this is one ofyour life updates, leah, oh,
(25:04):
really I think.
I think we'll just hop into it.
What's what's weird is thatthere's also, strangely, this
feeling of hope lately.
Um, hope as like as like,people come together to reject
and resist the will of thegovernment, the will of elon
musk and Donald Trump.
There are a lot of peopleresisting.
(25:25):
Yeah, there's so many peopleresisting and they're doing an
incredible job.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I don't know if I talked about it on the podcast,
but I have a spreadsheet.
It's not as cool as Ollie'sspreadsheet, ollie's zombie
spreadsheet.
If y'all don't know about it,you can, oliver.
I don't have the link anymore,I don't think, or I've lost it,
so maybe give it to us.
Regardless, I have aspreadsheet that I'm making of
just people who are heroic, whoare doing things, who are
(25:51):
fighting back, because it's whatgives me hope and sometimes
there's names associated, but,for example, the Veterans March.
I don't know who organized it.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
No one did, indivisible did.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, a group did.
Yeah, collective power did, andit really that is what's giving
me hope is seeing all theresistance, weirdly not on the
news, which is annoying.
You won't find it on the news.
Um, like nothing about it, likejust it wasn't a blip on the
radar.
Your veterans protests, andthere was one at washington dc.
I think you said there was like3 000, 3 000 veterans, yeah,
(26:24):
and like I don't know what it'sgonna take for it to be like?
what does it need to be amillion people, maybe, for that
to make the news?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
there's been protests in every state capital yeah,
simultaneous protests 50 statesacross the us and they're not
reporting it.
There have been peopleprotesting outside of Tesla.
Tesla, sorry.
And the only time that itreally makes the news is when
somebody comes by and throws abunch of Molotov cocktails at a
(26:53):
Tesla or spray paints a dick onit.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Bless that person Speaking of heroes they don't
know the names.
Also, the person who lit aCEO's house on fire, bless you.
This is the world that we livein.
Heroes they don't know thenames.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Also, the person who lit a ceo's house on fire bless
you.
Um, this is the world that welive in, where you know, up up
is down, black is white, wrongis right, yeah, so, if I'm
understanding the logic here, toset fire to a ceo's house or
draw a dick on a tesla, eventhough they say that's terrorism
?
Um, isn't it the right thing?
(27:26):
Is based on the logic here amis, am I to believe that doing
terrorism is is now the rightthing to do if everything is
upside down?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I mean, I think the this could lose us some
listeners, but I think when you,for example, call folks who are
fighting against the USinvasion of Iraq and
Afghanistan's freedom fighters,I think that that's an important
statement.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Again, not pro-Taliban here, okay, not
pro-oppression of any kind, andI've always been able to
understand why people fight backin those contexts and that
there really aren't any otheroptions.
So, like you said that, um,what's the word you use for
asymmetrical warfare?
I think that is where we're athere inside of the united states
(28:17):
, and it feels really scary anddangerous to say that.
I don't want to say that I'mfor these things, because I
constantly think about my rightto be here as a citizen and
we're seeing with mahmoud khalilas the first canary in the coal
mine, just a spokesperson forpalestine from columbia
university, being taken fromtheir home, um, from their
(28:39):
pregnant wife because they spokefor, spoke for palest.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Taken illegally yeah illegally.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
They have their green card, but there's some sort of
weird loophole language about itwhich is they don't align with
the foreign policy of the UnitedStates government, so that
gives them the right to do thesethings, and that's really scary
.
But what's also wonderful is tosee the courts fight back, in
that we know where Mahmoud isnow and we know that he's
relatively safe.
That we know where Mahmoud isnow and we know that he's
relatively safe because we knowwhere he is and they stopped him
(29:07):
from being deported.
So it's a weird time becausethere's a lot of things I want
to say and I think we talkaround them and I know that we
have to fight back and we haveto say the difficult things
because we can't.
If we don't, then we can't.
We're going to let those peoplewin.
But also, like, how do we dothat in a way that is safe for
(29:27):
us is what I don't know.
I mean, you and I are justlittle people, we're little
pawns in a much bigger thing,and so I'm not saying like we're
on the target list right now.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, but literally any of the things that we say
could be interpreted and themeanings changed if they decided
they wanted to throw us a partyMe just saying I'm happy about
somebody lighting a CEO's houseon fire is probably enough yeah,
honestly.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
It is enough which the veterans protest does give
me hope, because I think I wasseeing you really struggle in
the beginning with this andfeeling alone and feeling that
like sense of duty as a veteran,and now you know there's lots
of people literally like you whohave seen the same things as
(30:17):
you.
They're on the same side as youand you're connected to people
now through this protest thatyou weren't before.
Do you want to talk about that,as you and you're connected?
Speaker 1 (30:24):
to people now through this protest that you weren't
before.
Do you want to talk about that?
Uh, yeah, real quickly.
I first I want to say that, um,a few months ago, and that not
a few months, a few weeks ago, Iwas on, I was on blue sky um
link in the description.
I'm on blue sky, so, uh, and Iwas talking about I have this uh
pinned post.
(30:44):
It's pinned now.
I hope it's pinned for a whilein the future.
And I'm talking about veteransand their duty to disobey, their
duty to uphold the oath thatthey take, which I see as this
blank check that includes up toyour life to protect the people
of the United States, andthere's no expiration on that
(31:08):
blank check.
It's, it's still an effect, Ibelieve, when you take that oath
yeah.
And we take it very seriously,and so on and so forth.
And I had this really long postIf you want to read it, it's on
blue sky and somebody respondedand they said, well, veterans
voted for Trump, so forth.
And I had this really long postif you want to read it, it's on
blue sky.
Um, and somebody responded andthey said, well, veterans voted
for trump, did they not?
(31:28):
And like, that is kind of thefeeling that people have, is
that all veterans are right wing, all soldiers are right wing,
so they all voted for trump.
And seeing all these peoplecome, come out, and not only
were they like, yeah, this, the,the, the regime that's
controlling the United Statesright now fucking sucks and we
(31:50):
need to take them down, but alsothey were cheering at things
like, uh, like trans rights orhuman rights.
You know they, they were onboard with everything.
They were as as left as we are,and I always knew that.
But it does sometimes get lostin the message that there is one
kind of veteran, there is onekind of soldier.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
And it's just not true.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
There's definitely a stereotype.
Yeah, things about veterans isthat they are statistically more
civically active than youraverage citizen.
You'll find that governmentoffice holders tend to often be
veterans, and my feeling on thisis that we've seen fucked up.
(32:35):
We went and we saw theincredible highs and the beauty
of the world outside of oursmall town that we were
desperate to escape from.
And we saw the world and wealso saw the deepest, darkest
parts of humanity.
And when we came back, we wereleft with this feeling of
(32:58):
obligation to make our worldbetter as best as we could.
To make our world better asbest as we could.
And sure, there's plenty ofshitheads out there that their
only takeaway is Muslims bad,but they were never going to
change.
They lack the ability toself-reflect, and you can see
(33:20):
those people in our society.
So the same percentage ofpeople who are, just like
everything is black and white,good and evil, christian or
Muslim, the same number of thosepeople exist as veterans, as do
people who are civically mindedand are capable of critical
(33:41):
thinking.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Yeah, when I used to work at a veteran serving
nonprofit, I had this revelationmoment where I was just like
veterans are the most diverseminority group in the United
States because they come fromall walks of life.
I think one of the definingfactors is that many of them
come from poverty, but it's anincredibly diverse group.
(34:02):
Even, like you said, when therewas don't ask, don't tell,
there were still members of thelgbtq plus community in the
military.
They just couldn't talk about ityeah uh, and I'm not saying I
understand what it's like tomake the choice to do that, but
I, and I think a lot of people,look at veterans in one of two
(34:23):
ways.
They either idealize them oridolize them and look at them as
like, oh, thank you for yourservice, like you're the
greatest thing ever, you know,thanks for fighting for our
freedom.
Aha.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
You can thank us after we save democracy.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah, seriously, or they're demonized.
You know they're looked at aslike the same as being a cop.
And I think that there is somedifference there, because once
you're enlisted, you're enlisted, you can't just leave, you
can't quit.
And also, again, when you lookat the patterns of people who
sign up to be in the military, alot of them are coming from a
(34:58):
situation where it is their bestoption.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, that was me.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, and does that make it okay?
No, but we all make reallyethically questionable decisions
in this world that we live in.
Questionable decisions in thisworld that we live in.
And the truth is is that youare folks who are trained to
fight and you've seen some shit,and I think one of the things
that makes you remarkable a lotof veterans remarkable,
(35:24):
especially folks who have beenpart of foreign wars is you
understand the value of a life,you understand what death means,
and so you take that reallyseriously when you say it's time
to fight.
And I appreciate that.
And so it's really fuckingdisheartening to me to hear that
they tried to pull down thesuicide hotline, because, even
(35:44):
with all of the things that theVA was getting right, veterans
are statistically the highestgroup that's likely to die by
suicide on a daily basis, evenmore than they initially
estimated.
I was part of a every 20 secondsyeah, I was part of a veteran's
suicide study, a national onemany years ago, and when they
actually started looking at thedata, it's it's worse than what
(36:07):
they said.
I don't have the numbers infront of me so I'm not going to
pretend, but we had apartnership with the Department
of Defense.
We were able to actually lookat the data of death by
self-harm and death by suicide,and it's worse than even what
you hear on the radio and in thenews, because these are folks
who have.
You know, you've seen somereally fucked up shit and so you
(36:28):
know more than anybody else itmeans to have, uh, the privilege
of living a good life, and howscary it is this time that that
could be taken away.
Um, and even when you have allthose things, you have to live
with the things that you did,things that you saw people do
the things that we did.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, you know.
Uh, one of the things thatbothers me the most about Iraq
is that we went in guns blazingand we were fighting people who
were defending their country.
Like you know, I fought in thetime before, you know,
insurgency.
We weren't fighting insurgencywhen I went in.
(37:07):
It was a more symmetrical war.
When I was there, it was usversus the Iraqi Republican
Guard.
They had tanks, they had RPGs,they had rifles, they were an
organized military, though theystill didn't stand a chance.
(37:35):
For Baghdad was an intenselybloody battle where it was a
last-ditch effort.
As we were coming into the cityof Baghdad, as we were reaching
Saddam Hussein's palace, and ontheir news they were saying
that we weren't even there, thatwe were lying, but we were like
a quarter mile away.
But that battle, they told thesoldiers of the Iraqi Republican
(37:56):
Guard, the officers of theirarmy, told their soldiers that
their families were being heldhostage by the government and
that if they didn't fight, theirfamilies would be executed by
the government.
Who would win?
They told them that they wouldwin.
It's just a matter of time.
They're going to fight back theinfidel United States and then,
(38:19):
when they won, their familieswould be executed if they didn't
fight did very similar toRussia's way of engaging.
Battle is just waves and wavesof soldiers, regardless of
tactics or their ability tosucceed in the mission.
(38:41):
They were just running at us.
Half of them had RPGs and halfof them had AK-47s versus tanks,
m1 Abrams and Bradleys andup-armored Humvees that you know
were kitted out with .50caliber machine guns, and we had
trucks that had 20 millimeterGatling guns that fired airburst
(39:05):
rounds, and on top of that, wehad Apaches in the sky that
could see everything that wasgoing on and just rain down 30
millimeter hell.
On top of that, we had Apachesin the sky that could see
everything that was going on andjust rain down 30 millimeter
hell on top of them and thenfire hellfire missiles at them
to finish them off.
We had bombs that they couldn'teven hide from underground and,
as they just came at us, waveafter wave, like 5,000 of them
(39:27):
had us surrounded Wow, they werejust dying.
It was just a wave of death.
And they did that to protecttheir country from us, the
invading force.
We invaded them.
They were protecting the livesof their families and their
friends and their country thatthey live in and everything that
(39:49):
they held dear to them and theywere doing it with their
lives.
And I cannot agree with anyonewho thinks that we did that for
the right reasons, you know.
Especially you know they toldus that we were doing it for
freedom and democracy.
We had to deliver the Iraqipeople to democracy and that was
(40:09):
the way that we were going todo.
It is by just killing themuntil they agreed to be
democracy and democratic.
Yeah, andit's.
It's hard to take all of thatand know the truth that we were
actually doing it for oil, notfor us, not oil, not so that we
(40:31):
could put cheaper gasoline inour cars, but to increase the
profits of billionaires inAmerica who already had billions
of dollars so they could havemore billions of dollars, sell
us even more expensive gasolinewhile they were buying cheaper
crude oil and then fast forwardto now.
(40:55):
To then take away our rightsand to make citizens disappear
in our country and to doeverything they can to erode
democracy is a slap in the face.
I knew that we weren't fightingfor the things that they told
us we were fighting for, butthey told us those were the
(41:16):
values of America.
And when they tell you thatthese are the values of America,
and then they do exactly theopposite.
I feel like it's ourresponsibility to say no, this
is what you said and this iswhat it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, it's interesting to hear that sense
of duty in your voice.
And you all can't see Dan'sface, but I can.
I really love this man.
I just want to say that for therecord.
He's a very special person andhe's one of many who, I think,
are going to really doeverything they can.
I wanted to read the Oath ofEnlist for the US Army to you,
(41:55):
okay, and for everybody else, sothat you understand what Dan
thought he was signing up forwhen he joined.
I do solemnly, I, daniel, dan,do solemnly, literally as a
blank this is from the Armymilitary website I do solemnly
swear that I will support anddefend the constitution of the
united states against allenemies, foreign and domestic,
(42:17):
that I will bear true faith andallegiance to the same here's
the rough part now, dan and thatI will obey the orders of the
president of the united statesand the orders of the officers
appointed over me according tothe regulations and the uniform
code of military MilitaryJustice.
So help me, god.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yes, the Code of Uniform Military Justice, ucmj,
article I want to say 92, talksabout your duty to follow lawful
orders from your officers andfrom the President of the United
States.
And the key there is lawful.
You are required to followlawful orders.
(42:57):
Unlawful orders, you have aduty to disobey those orders.
When you are given an unlawfulorder, they talk about this a
lot less because they don't wantto encourage people not
following their orders, but whenyou are given an unlawful order
, it is your duty to say no doyou disobey, and I don't know
(43:21):
the details of this.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
You could probably tell us a little bit more, dan,
about um.
When trump went into office,basically just ousting a lot of
military leadership thatprobably would have said no.
They did say no and that's whythey got ousted.
That's why they're gone.
Yeah, so it's a dangerous time,but I think you've actually
caused me to think about my oaththat I had to make, too, really
differently because of howseriously you take this one that
(43:44):
I had to do last May oh, theinnocent days of May 2024.
It's a different time.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
I also want to point out, too, that we didn't take an
oath to a dictator and wedidn't take an oath to a king.
No, and that is how Trump viewshimself.
He wants to be a dictator, hewants to be the king.
He says I am the law.
What he represents is not thepresident of the United States.
If you don't believe me, askElon Musk's kid who the
(44:17):
president of the United Statesis.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I don't know how you're going to cut those things
out.
I want to read the oath that Ihad to swear to yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
So this is interesting because most
citizens don't swear an oathunless they take public office,
but as somebody who became a uscitizen, you are required to
take an oath yeah, and I'vereally been contemplating it a
lot, but on two levels, like one, what does it really mean to me
, um, in this time?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
and two, just knowing that I signed up for some
things that, in this context,make me really fucking scared,
um, that, like you said, um,citizenships from birthright,
which is in question anyways.
I don't know, um, who knowswhat's going on there, uh, but
it's, it's intense, and I I'mgonna try my best to live into
this in a way that I think isfor the best of this country.
(45:13):
I'm not proud of this country'sorigins.
I'm not even saying that thiscountry and the way that it's
currently formed is that great.
The Constitution is the bestthing that was ever written.
I'm really clear.
I don't think that.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
I mean it's a work in progress.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, it's a work in progress.
Yeah, it's a work in progress,but I do feel allegiance to this
land and I have made the choiceto stay.
We could leave.
We have an immense privilegethat we could leave, and I want
to stay here and I want to fightfor what we have, um, and for
this place and for the peoplethat have come to love and call
my home.
I've lived here most of myadulthood, so this is the oath
that I took.
I love and call my home.
I've lived here most of myadulthood, so this is the oath
that I took.
I hereby declare on oath that Iabsolutely and entirely renounce
(45:57):
and abjure all allegiance andfidelity to any foreign prince,
potentate, state or sovereigntyof whom or which I have
heretofore been a subject orcitizen, and that I will support
and defend the Constitution andthe laws of the United States
of America against all enemies,foreign and domestic.
So, similar to what you had todo and I will bear true faith
and allegiance to the same thatI will bear arms on behalf of
(46:18):
the United States.
I guess that means you'regetting your handgun, dan, yeah,
when required by law, and thatI will perform non-combatant
service in the armed forces ofthe United States when required
by law, and that I will performwork of national importance
under civilian direction whenrequired by the law, and that I
take this obligation freely,without any mental reservation
(46:39):
or purpose of evasion.
So help me, god.
So this is what I mean when Isay like I'm really feeling the
heaviness of this, because it'ssaying that I will perform work
of national importance undercivilian direction when required
by the law, I'll join the army,I'll bear arms on behalf of the
United States when required bythe law and I'll perform
noncombatant service in thearmed forces when required by
the law.
And we're in a time now where Ifeel like any one of those
(47:01):
things could be called in.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah, and that's something that birthright
citizens of the United Statesdid not have to do, unless we
get the draft again.
Yeah, uh, citizens of theUnited States did not have to do
, unless we get the draft again.
Yeah, um, males at the age of18 had to, uh, had to join, join
the draft.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
Um.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
I forget exactly what it's called Uh the uh selective
service um, which I had to dotoo, which I thought was weird
because I'm like I'm joining thearmy.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
And they joining the army and they're like you still
have to sign up for selectiveservice.
It's a weird world out there,uh, but when you swear to
something, it's, it meanssomething yeah and I do still
love canada and I do have theright to be a canadian
citizenship citizen, but I I myallegiance when I did that.
It meant something to me.
I want to stay here.
Yeah, I want to be a part ofmaking the, the place that I've
chosen to call home, a goodplace for everybody to live.
(47:53):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
I sometimes wonder if I could also be held under fire
when they're talking aboutbirthright citizenship because I
was not born in the US.
Yeah, A lot of people don'tknow that I was born in Athens,
Greece.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Deport him.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Okay, don't know that .
I was born in athens, greece.
Deport him.
Okay, my biological father wasa member of the us navy and I
was born overseas.
Um, and I lived in a small towncalled neomachary, neomachary,
greece, just outside of athens,and that's where I was born and
until I joined the army, I think, I held dual citizenship
between the Republic of Greeceand the United States.
(48:42):
I don't know how that worksanymore.
I think I had to denounce it.
But, greece, let me know if youwant me back.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Be nice to visit one day, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Can we?
Can we trade our house for anice Greek Palazzo or something?
Speaker 2 (48:57):
I don't want to leave .
I like it here.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
It's a little boy, it's nice in Greece, just saying
.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
It's feeling increasingly irrational, but I'm
like no.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Yeah, I mean that's how I've been feeling too, too,
because, like, because you are aCanadian citizen, like we kind
of have a bit of an out ifthings get really bad.
Yeah, it's a little bit morecomplicated for me and even more
complicated for my brother,simon, who we would want to
bring with us.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, I'm not going without him, but you know
there's a possibility goingwithout him, but you know it's
there's.
There's a possibility.
There's a possibility forescape from a totalitarian
regime that wants to kill us andtell us that we're terrorists
and also annex canada.
So yeah, we'll see about that,yeah, um, but I, I, I feel like
(49:48):
it's it, like it's my duty tostay in spite of the US
government.
I feel like I have to stay hereand make it hard for them.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
That's what I feel.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Same, speaking of trauma responses or what your
gut reaction is in this case,it's fight for me and it is for
you too.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
I've never wanted to fight harder in my life, me
neither.
Now, when I leave the house, Ibring my nazi punch and gloves
he does it's not a joke.
Yeah, we were gonna talk aboutsome other stuff today, but we,
this, this, uh, thisconversation, we can we?
We didn't even get through getthrough our life updates, did we
?
We didn't?
Speaker 2 (50:25):
I don't, you know, I, I actually have a backlog of
things I want to do in ourcasual deads, like talk about in
the flesh, even though wedidn't.
I don't, you know, I I actuallyhave a backlog of things I want
to do in our casual deads, liketalk about in the flesh, even
though we didn't get to finishit, because I won't support
amazon anymore, um, and otherzombie stuff.
But like, even when you werejust describing your experience
in iraq, I'm like that soundslike a fucking zombie horde
(50:48):
coming at you, except thatthey're real people who are
sentient and we're also afraid.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, they were terrified.
Yeah, they were so close thatwe could hear them yelling.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
Yeah, so the podcast continues to evolve.
We're going to keep havingguests on.
They're going to talk aboutbooks.
We are going to talk aboutmovies and stuff.
I really want to talk aboutbeing fat in the apocalypse
sometime.
That's on my list.
Next week coming out is aninterview with Jenna Crisfanti
on Talc, a Haitian zombie story,which is a really good episode
(51:22):
but also talks about the realityof our time.
And for those of you who aresticking it through and
listening to this horribleversion of my voice, I don't
even know why you're listening.
But you know what I've neverknown why you were listening to
be honest.
Yeah, it's just me and Dantalking to each other, just
chatting.
Yeah, but I hope that you'rewell out there.
If you took an oath, like whatDan and I did, I wonder what
(51:46):
you're contemplating.
And if you didn't, what does itmean to you to live in the
United States today?
That's my question that I wantto leave with.
What does it mean for you to behere?
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Also, if you're not in the United States, how does
it feel watching the UnitedStates right now?
Yeah, let us know.
Do you want to punch all of us?
Yeah, come, punch us.
Yeah, please punch us, punch a.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Nazi first.
Oh, oh.
I shouldn't do it.
I'll just say this.
I'll end with polymorphously.
Who wrote the zombiere-erection?
Only sex can save us.
Dm'd us recently and, becauseof all of the ridiculousness,
has a new book idea.
I don't have permission becauseI haven't asked if we can share
it, but it involves canada andI'd really like to read it.
That's's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
Oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, we need it more than ever, bali.
We need ludicrous smut toreflect the times, so we can
laugh and feel horny.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Thanks for listening guys to the Zombie Book Club.
Thanks for listening to theprevious episodes as well,
especially this episode, aswe're sick, low energy, angry
about the government and don'thave a whole lot of zombie talk
in us right now, because ourcurrent apocalypse is so much
worse, um, and it's, it's, it'sgetting worse.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Might sound crazy, but the end is nigh, baby, bye,
bye.
Bye, don't die, you're welcome.
Bye, everybody, bye.
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